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Here’s a new Open Thread for all of you. To minimize the load, please continue to limit your Tweets or place them under a MORE tag.

Over the last few weeks, prominent alt-Covid websites have published a series of articles supporting my analysis of the origins of the global pandemic, while my video podcast interviews from last year picked up another 500,000 views in January, easily a one-month record:

https://www.unz.com/runz/why-the-lab-leak-theory-is-almost-certainly-false/

And Col. Douglas Macgregor just had a new interview presenting his views on the Russia-Ukraine war:

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Open Thread, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there’s no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there’s no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.
     
    Nobody knows how many Ukies there were in Ukraine before Russian SMO started. Estimates differ widely, from ~43 to ~25 million. The last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001. After SMO started, several millions moved to various EU countries, several millions moved to Russia, a few hundred thousand moved to Belarus. So, how many are left is anybody’s guess. One thing is clear: a lot fewer conscription-worthy are left than the regime would like. Now Ukie males are warned against going to Ukie embassies and consulates in the EU, as instead of help they get conscription notices.

    Mobilization in Ukiestan now involves forced conscription of the unlucky males caught in the street, in shops, in churches, and even in funeral processions of those conscripted earlier. Ukraine officially declared mobilization of those with limited conscription-worthiness (e.g., people with diseases, poor eyesight, and minor deformities). There was a scandal recently when conscription notice was handed to a guy born w/o hands. With several hundred soldiers killed or captured every day, Ukraine experiences severe shortage of cannon fodder. There is talk about conscription of women. It is anybody’s guess what happens sooner: collapse of the current Kiev regime or conscription of females in Ukiestan.

    Replies: @AP

    , @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Ukraine had 25 million people in 1900.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

  2. @Wokechoke
    If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there's no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there’s no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.

    Nobody knows how many Ukies there were in Ukraine before Russian SMO started. Estimates differ widely, from ~43 to ~25 million. The last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001. After SMO started, several millions moved to various EU countries, several millions moved to Russia, a few hundred thousand moved to Belarus. So, how many are left is anybody’s guess. One thing is clear: a lot fewer conscription-worthy are left than the regime would like. Now Ukie males are warned against going to Ukie embassies and consulates in the EU, as instead of help they get conscription notices.

    Mobilization in Ukiestan now involves forced conscription of the unlucky males caught in the street, in shops, in churches, and even in funeral processions of those conscripted earlier. Ukraine officially declared mobilization of those with limited conscription-worthiness (e.g., people with diseases, poor eyesight, and minor deformities). There was a scandal recently when conscription notice was handed to a guy born w/o hands. With several hundred soldiers killed or captured every day, Ukraine experiences severe shortage of cannon fodder. There is talk about conscription of women. It is anybody’s guess what happens sooner: collapse of the current Kiev regime or conscription of females in Ukiestan.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.

    I have plenty of male relatives who are in Ukraine and are willing to fight if called to do so but haven’t been mobilized (yet) because they aren’t needed due to not having had any military experience. Ukraine isn’t close to the point where every male they can find is in the military.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way, @Gerard1234

  3. @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there’s no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.
     
    Nobody knows how many Ukies there were in Ukraine before Russian SMO started. Estimates differ widely, from ~43 to ~25 million. The last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001. After SMO started, several millions moved to various EU countries, several millions moved to Russia, a few hundred thousand moved to Belarus. So, how many are left is anybody’s guess. One thing is clear: a lot fewer conscription-worthy are left than the regime would like. Now Ukie males are warned against going to Ukie embassies and consulates in the EU, as instead of help they get conscription notices.

    Mobilization in Ukiestan now involves forced conscription of the unlucky males caught in the street, in shops, in churches, and even in funeral processions of those conscripted earlier. Ukraine officially declared mobilization of those with limited conscription-worthiness (e.g., people with diseases, poor eyesight, and minor deformities). There was a scandal recently when conscription notice was handed to a guy born w/o hands. With several hundred soldiers killed or captured every day, Ukraine experiences severe shortage of cannon fodder. There is talk about conscription of women. It is anybody’s guess what happens sooner: collapse of the current Kiev regime or conscription of females in Ukiestan.

    Replies: @AP

    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.

    I have plenty of male relatives who are in Ukraine and are willing to fight if called to do so but haven’t been mobilized (yet) because they aren’t needed due to not having had any military experience. Ukraine isn’t close to the point where every male they can find is in the military.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    Do your male relatives think about the future after victory? Ukraine joins the EU and values are imposed on it. The two most controversial ones are (1) mandatory exposure of transsexual content to young children and (2) acceptance of Muslim refugees.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard1234
    @AP


    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.
     
    LMAO. Lvov was 7.8% "Ukrainian" before the Soviets came you POS.

    You need a residual amount to shovel shit off the street and work as prostitutes. To anybody who knows anything about the place, anybody who is not some fantasist, autistic nutjob......they were BANNED from Lvov LMAO!!! In Apartheid South Africa in the most elite white districts, where Africans were curfewed from walking on the streets, from going outside or into various buildings or owning property etc - you would still have a residual amount working as maids, gardeners etc you thick retard - the exact same thing in Lvov. Live there freely ?No- i.e BANNED, sell some produce grown outside the city at the market for a few hours in the morning ?- that and not much more. Also amusing that the street that you have never been to , in a city of Lvov you have never been to, in a country you have never been to........where the place they did historically congregate and live at in A-H time was "Ruska". Not one single street or road or monument named after or describing "Ukrainian" you thick POS.

    In austistic non-life spamtroll logic , because 2000 Jews or whatever number remained in Poland in 1946 - then there was no mass murder of them! Thats the idiocy is disputing that Lvov was populated by Jews and Poles and the Galician ukros were definitively banned from there.


    More Galician non-citizens ran to the forests and mountains, and probably started evicting rabbits from their warrens ( because they are impotent scumbags who cant fight anything else)......for several years after that census because Polish repression, understandable when 2 groups of dickheads and retards get together - increased plenty more after that last census. My guess is not even 2% of August 1939 Lvov population were Galician ukrops.

    Serbs and Armenians were better treated, had much higher rights and better lives than Galiciain ukrops in Lvov during A-H time and under Polish state.

    If anything, excluding the violence, Jews had HIGHER level of rights in Nazi Germany until 1939, certainly until 1938.......than Galician "Ukrainians" had in Lvov or even extending into the surrounding rural areas!!!!!!

    Thats the pitiful joke we are dealing with here. It must kill a sociopathic non-life fuckwit as yourself that an honest and intellectual guy like AnonFromTN is from Lvov and knows the area well and can expose the WEIRD and blatant BS a freak as yourself tries to spam on here. I know ukronationalists from Lvov and NONE of them would even try to come up with this idiotic "argumentation" or dispute the ban. Only some trash, not even ignorant diaspora would write this deranged nonsense.

    7.8% , LOL!!!!!!!!
  4. @Wokechoke
    If there really are only 25 million Ukies in Ukraine left there's no Ukraine there. The entire territory is just a garrison zone already.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AP

    Ukraine had 25 million people in 1900.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ukraine-population

    It's quite interesting to see the projection.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    , @songbird
    @AP

    Not in the same age and sex cohorts. Not in a world where the West was woke and hyper-invaded, and the Global South exploding in population, and Russia taking in millions of gastarbeiters.
    ____
    It appears to me that two of Aaron B's Unz-wishes have been granted. I hope he thinks carefully, before spending his last one.

    As to me, of course, I wish Daniel, Yellowface_Anon, and GR (and others) would return.

    I have been especially thinking about that weird twitterpost where someone evidenced an idea to use the wombs of dead women, to gestate babies. Extremely creepy! And I wonder if they would go for quintuplets or greater each time, since wouldn't have the same concerns for the mother. Maybe, one could even make a sort of moral argument for breaking the taboo (still quite disturbing), like reproducing the genes of the dead person if the eggs work (really creepy), or collateral relatives reproducing their own genes (which would include some of the same ones.) But I am not arguing for it, and find it pretty Satanic.

    Anyway, I keep thinking about what sort of person it took to invent the idea for these liche-wombs. Was it someone who played as a liche-knight in Warcraft? Or someone who played D&D? Or who worked part time in a morgue? Or some really weird psychopath, with very strange mental outlooks and out-of-the-box thinking? Maybe, just the average scientist? (Such as the ones who unleashed Covid)

  5. MacGregor continues to predict total Russian victory in 10 days. This is now the 34th time he has done so. Wrong 34 times in a row! Maybe he’ll be right the 35th?

    Russian casualities 150,000. For dead, divide by 2.5.

    Ukrainian casualities 90,000. For dead, divide by 3.

    Both sides are more conservative with their manpower than is usually believed.

    Ukraine has a far superior military to when the war began. Russia has twice the manpower but degraded effectiveness. This says what you need to know about the future trajectory and is near undeniable.

    Putin is like a Looney Tunes character who has run off a cliff. He’ll fall as soon as he is honest and he looks down. That is why he drags this war on. He has no idea what else to do, even though there is no path to victory for him. Russia can’t take any significant city, can’t cause major attrition on the Ukrainians and can’t conduct decisive manouevres. Instead, they are bogged down fighting for tiny settlements with their full forces and shelling empty trenches with wild inaccuracy. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians continue to attrit them with HIMARS and ambushes in defence.

    The gas weapon failed. Western economies are not even going into recession this year. No foreign aid has been given to Russia, so Russian diplomacy is failed too. The sum of their efforts being to sell gas and oil at half price in exchange for a few countries being willing to say neutral words for them at the UN and invite Putin to coffee! That’s some expensive coffee!

    Meanwhile, developed democracy financial commitments to Ukraine are minor though rising, and they aren’t going to stop, given they are 0.something % of GDP.

    Possibly the Ukrainians will advance on Melitopol as soon as the ground dries and this war will be over. Possibly the map will look much like now when going into 2024 and the Russian elections.

    Either way it is a disaster for Eastern Slavs, a black mark on everyone who supported Putin’s aggression, and revealing of how ludicrously stupid most “dissidents” are. They literally cannot remember a week ago nor be even borderline coherent. Perhaps it is unsurprising that 80% of them are the most defective people in the West. Just look through their comment histories and past article predictions. I’ve never seen any movement more obviously revealed as insane and incompetent!

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    @Leaves No Shadow

    They still haven't got Bakhmut you're right how much ever my heart want's Russians to win. Objective facts have to be registered in minds of intellectually honest observers Ukraines has badly mauled the bear thanks to their valiant sons who have stood their grounds and have perished by their tens of thousands. One of the greatest military upsets in history, Who would have thought that what a catastrophic failure of Russian Intelligence to underestimate their will to fight and die and get blown up by the relentless Russian shelling and still not yield.

    Of course the West's humongous military support factors in the equation but it's the secondary factor just like the lend and lease in the second world war what use would have it been if the Russians just threw in the towel.

    All cheers to these valiant sons of Ukraine

    But, there's always a but

    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it's pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos

    Young men

    AP, Mr. Hack, LATw

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally... make some kind of deal they're getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it's not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  6. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Ukraine had 25 million people in 1900.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ukraine-population

    It’s quite interesting to see the projection.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    It’s quite interesting to see the projection.
     
    As we all know, linear projections are rarely correct. This one assumes that suicidal course of the current regime will continue. However, regimes change, and the fortunes of countries change accordingly. If Ukraine gets rid of (or is forced to get rid of) quasi-Nazi Banderite scum, its future might not be as glum as this projection suggests.
    , @songbird
    @Wokechoke

    As soon as a truce is called, the line will shoot up, as new blacks arrive. (don't expect the old ones to return.)

    That's one of the fallacies of these graphs: they don't allow for immigration. Should at least have two lines. And one based on the last twenty years of the UK, France, Germany, Ireland (with a final picture of what a Ukrainian is supposed to look like in 2100.) Even if one wouldn't project the same rate, it is not any less logical than a decline to zero, but about trying to project different trends.

  7. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Ukraine had 25 million people in 1900.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    Not in the same age and sex cohorts. Not in a world where the West was woke and hyper-invaded, and the Global South exploding in population, and Russia taking in millions of gastarbeiters.
    ____
    It appears to me that two of Aaron B’s Unz-wishes have been granted. I hope he thinks carefully, before spending his last one.

    As to me, of course, I wish Daniel, Yellowface_Anon, and GR (and others) would return.

    [MORE]

    I have been especially thinking about that weird twitterpost where someone evidenced an idea to use the wombs of dead women, to gestate babies. Extremely creepy! And I wonder if they would go for quintuplets or greater each time, since wouldn’t have the same concerns for the mother. Maybe, one could even make a sort of moral argument for breaking the taboo (still quite disturbing), like reproducing the genes of the dead person if the eggs work (really creepy), or collateral relatives reproducing their own genes (which would include some of the same ones.) But I am not arguing for it, and find it pretty Satanic.

    Anyway, I keep thinking about what sort of person it took to invent the idea for these liche-wombs. Was it someone who played as a liche-knight in Warcraft? Or someone who played D&D? Or who worked part time in a morgue? Or some really weird psychopath, with very strange mental outlooks and out-of-the-box thinking? Maybe, just the average scientist? (Such as the ones who unleashed Covid)

  8. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ukraine-population

    It's quite interesting to see the projection.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    It’s quite interesting to see the projection.

    As we all know, linear projections are rarely correct. This one assumes that suicidal course of the current regime will continue. However, regimes change, and the fortunes of countries change accordingly. If Ukraine gets rid of (or is forced to get rid of) quasi-Nazi Banderite scum, its future might not be as glum as this projection suggests.

  9. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/ukraine-population

    It's quite interesting to see the projection.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    As soon as a truce is called, the line will shoot up, as new blacks arrive. (don’t expect the old ones to return.)

    That’s one of the fallacies of these graphs: they don’t allow for immigration. Should at least have two lines. And one based on the last twenty years of the UK, France, Germany, Ireland (with a final picture of what a Ukrainian is supposed to look like in 2100.) Even if one wouldn’t project the same rate, it is not any less logical than a decline to zero, but about trying to project different trends.

  10. I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot’s of Ukrainians won’t win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn’t going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine’s army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia’s politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn’t win wars. Ukraine’s advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it’s territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin’s government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Greasy William


    Anatoly Karlin @powerfultakes
    Transhumanist POC (it/its)
    interested in geopolitics, IQ augmentation,
    life extension, artificial wombs, e/acc, UBI, crypto
    @ethotaku, elephant uplift.
    Journalist ꙮpen Borders
     

    IMO if no mobilization announcement by Feb 25, 2023 then the war can be considered lost for Russia.

    Only way it doesn't happen is if Z claims about catastrophic AUF losses are correct but I wouldn't bank much on that.

    Only relevant question then becomes how much it will lose.
     


    What I am seeing right now is a one to one repetition of what was happening last summer, except that the Russian advances now are much more modest (one 10k town and villages vs. multiple 100k cities), while Ukrainians accumulate large reserves of manpower and equipment.
     

    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1621235550182064130

    https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1620871202305896448

    https://twitter.com/akalcakra/status/1621067461843116035?s=20

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @A123
    @Greasy William


    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn’t going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
     
    No matter how many times you repeat this... It is still 100% fiction.

    Under the Constitution, the House starts Appropriations. Not-The-President Biden will be under pressure. And, the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦 is running out of steam.

    The most vicious blow is that every cent of Ukraine spending will be enthusiastically audited. Without 10% For The Big Guy , funds will be channeled to expenditures that are easier to corrupt and graft. Kiev regime aggression is the gold strike that is now fully played out.

    Inertia will keep lesser sums flowing for a while longer.

    The question is, "Will France🇫🇷 & Germany🇩🇪 pick up the slack of $3-5B per month?"

    Signs point to NO. The European Empire wanted this war, but are unwilling to fund it.

    PEACE 😇
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    Let’s try stick to the facts we actually know.

    1. Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.

    2. The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.

    3. Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes. To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment with minimal losses.

    4. Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment. Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.

    That’s all we know for sure.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard1234
    @Greasy William


    Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot’s of Ukrainians won’t win Russia the war
     
    Wow. WTF? Did your Rabbi molest you as a kid? Don't get me mistaken - every one of your comments is silly about what is probably one of the most one-sided, dominant wars in history - but that section of your comment is particularly stupid.

    Mobilisation rate in the Great Patriotic war was about 7% you dummy. Total war. Highest-intensity conflict. USSR having probably one of its highest rates ever of available young adults to conscript because of the population explosion in the mid-1920's after USSR fully consolidated........and despite all that necessity and appropriate conditions - mobilisation rate could not exceed 7%.

    Ukronazis are getting incinerated at extremely high rates by our heavily outnumbered heroes in a very localised conflict of, overall in comparison to GPW, medium intensity . This after 6 waves of mobilisation. Any imbecile can see where this is going.

    To me its clear that "Ukraine"/fuckheadistan has less than 20 million people living in this decrepit failed state since the war....not much better than 25 milllion just before SMO. But if you take the figure of 25 million, than that's 11 million men (much lower death rates of women than men in ex USSR, so not assuming 12.5M). Extremely low birth rates of kids this millenium in 404 would show maybe 2 million of them are boys, 3 million of them pension-age men. You could argue up to a million men of working adult age are simply physically and or mentally unfit to perform military duties. That's 5 million men who could be mobilised . I could just add a few thousand and put 10% component of women in to make it 6 million soldiers. 7% mobilised of the 25 million is 1.7 million. You can add police, border guard and others as out of that 1.7 million, although probably should include Ukropgvardia - but the numbers will still be closer to 1.7M than to 2Million.

    You could argue that the usual factors restraining maximum numbers on the frontline - the need for people working to keep the country to keep running, the need for wartime industrial capacities and businesses to be maximimised so as to support the war effort and make any military action possible.....is neutered by 404's long-time self-destroyed, and SMO destroyed industries anyway, already dead economy .....which correspondingly is neutered by the whole open-border military-supply capacity from NATO via EU states that can't be targeted (unlike Hitlers massive industrial capacity with most of continental Europe area producing for it - which at least could be targeted at source) .....and all the women and children who are out of the country which all in turn help maximise the number of male soldiers. But that argument would be wrong.

    A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million is currently chemically transferring into good fertiliser already. A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million ( max potential) is currently permanently crippled despite the best efforts of german hospitals. A huge proportion will be unable or unwilling to fight against professional soldiers . IF the aim of ours is to liberate all Novorossiyan territories, then a still big proportion of the 1.7 million could never ever be transferred from Kiev/ North or Galicia to fight in the South and East.
    Bullet wounds are a fraction in comparison to wounds from heavy artillery in the SMO- incredibly more than in any arena of WW2, Vietnam, Korea etc - all of which favours continued disproportionate ukronazi casualties in comparison to ours.

    Stop regurgitating anglo-american subhuman propaganda you clown. Any sane person can see this is going very well

    Replies: @Beckow, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Greasy William

    Appreciate the attempt to lay out pros and cons here, but the summary starts with an obviously wrong premise: that the anti-Russian ukrainians have an effectively unlimited supply of fighting men.

    NO. China and India may have an effectively unlimited supply of soldiers, but a small, old, further aging, declining population like the ukraine's does not.

    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn't it change the guesstimate of the outcome?

    Replies: @Greasy William

  11. Was AOC in the theater club in high school? I am genuinely curious.

    I feel she has the janky movements of an enthusiast who wants to lose herself in the role, if not exactly the poise and diction of a good performer.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @songbird

    Sorry, but the clip is so good, I have to post it:
    https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/1621209551948156931?s=20&t=hSX4WKM_ZrXInTvD8R_UCA

    I'm also quite curious about the black lady behind her. Her movements must be the influence of a black church, right? And not natural and genetic? Or, maybe, A and B, bioculture? Wonder if one would see the same in South African Parliament or UK Parliament.

    I'm not following the story too closely, but I am kind of shocked they removed Omar from the foreign relations committee because of what she said about Israel, and that AOC needed to cast it in terms the racism and sexism of Republicans. I thought they would tolerate one BIPOC loose cannon on Israel. Guess I was wrong.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/02/republicans-vote-oust-omar-foreign-relations-house/11154970002/

    Replies: @Greasy William

  12. @songbird
    Was AOC in the theater club in high school? I am genuinely curious.

    I feel she has the janky movements of an enthusiast who wants to lose herself in the role, if not exactly the poise and diction of a good performer.

    Replies: @songbird

    Sorry, but the clip is so good, I have to post it:

    [MORE]

    I’m also quite curious about the black lady behind her. Her movements must be the influence of a black church, right? And not natural and genetic? Or, maybe, A and B, bioculture? Wonder if one would see the same in South African Parliament or UK Parliament.

    I’m not following the story too closely, but I am kind of shocked they removed Omar from the foreign relations committee because of what she said about Israel, and that AOC needed to cast it in terms the racism and sexism of Republicans. I thought they would tolerate one BIPOC loose cannon on Israel. Guess I was wrong.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/02/republicans-vote-oust-omar-foreign-relations-house/11154970002/

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @songbird

    Omar is one of those politicians who is equally reviled by both the Republican establishment and the Republican base. The Republican establishment because her Israel views and the Republican base because she is a Somali, Muslim, Feminist member of The Squad. Omar pushes everyone buttons and Republicans needed to retaliate for the Dems kicking MTG off her committees.

  13. @songbird
    @songbird

    Sorry, but the clip is so good, I have to post it:
    https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/1621209551948156931?s=20&t=hSX4WKM_ZrXInTvD8R_UCA

    I'm also quite curious about the black lady behind her. Her movements must be the influence of a black church, right? And not natural and genetic? Or, maybe, A and B, bioculture? Wonder if one would see the same in South African Parliament or UK Parliament.

    I'm not following the story too closely, but I am kind of shocked they removed Omar from the foreign relations committee because of what she said about Israel, and that AOC needed to cast it in terms the racism and sexism of Republicans. I thought they would tolerate one BIPOC loose cannon on Israel. Guess I was wrong.

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/02/republicans-vote-oust-omar-foreign-relations-house/11154970002/

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Omar is one of those politicians who is equally reviled by both the Republican establishment and the Republican base. The Republican establishment because her Israel views and the Republican base because she is a Somali, Muslim, Feminist member of The Squad. Omar pushes everyone buttons and Republicans needed to retaliate for the Dems kicking MTG off her committees.

    • Thanks: songbird
  14. Sher Singh says:
    @Greasy William
    I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot's of Ukrainians won't win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine's army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia's politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn't win wars. Ukraine's advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it's territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin's government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234, @RadicalCenter

    Anatoly Karlin @powerfultakes
    Transhumanist POC (it/its)
    interested in geopolitics, IQ augmentation,
    life extension, artificial wombs, e/acc, UBI, crypto
    @ethotaku, elephant uplift.
    Journalist ꙮpen Borders

    IMO if no mobilization announcement by Feb 25, 2023 then the war can be considered lost for Russia.

    Only way it doesn’t happen is if Z claims about catastrophic AUF losses are correct but I wouldn’t bank much on that.

    Only relevant question then becomes how much it will lose.

    What I am seeing right now is a one to one repetition of what was happening last summer, except that the Russian advances now are much more modest (one 10k town and villages vs. multiple 100k cities), while Ukrainians accumulate large reserves of manpower and equipment.

    [MORE]

    https://twitter.com/akalcakra/status/1621067461843116035?s=20

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Sher Singh

    1. The difference between the Ukrainian counter offensives last year vs the ones supposedly coming this year is that last year the Ukrainians attacked an unprepared and overextended Russian front where the Ukrainians had a manpower advantage at the point of attack

    2. What would does "lost" mean for Anatoly? The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow? Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

  15. @Sher Singh
    @Greasy William


    Anatoly Karlin @powerfultakes
    Transhumanist POC (it/its)
    interested in geopolitics, IQ augmentation,
    life extension, artificial wombs, e/acc, UBI, crypto
    @ethotaku, elephant uplift.
    Journalist ꙮpen Borders
     

    IMO if no mobilization announcement by Feb 25, 2023 then the war can be considered lost for Russia.

    Only way it doesn't happen is if Z claims about catastrophic AUF losses are correct but I wouldn't bank much on that.

    Only relevant question then becomes how much it will lose.
     


    What I am seeing right now is a one to one repetition of what was happening last summer, except that the Russian advances now are much more modest (one 10k town and villages vs. multiple 100k cities), while Ukrainians accumulate large reserves of manpower and equipment.
     

    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1621235550182064130

    https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1620871202305896448

    https://twitter.com/akalcakra/status/1621067461843116035?s=20

    Replies: @Greasy William

    1. The difference between the Ukrainian counter offensives last year vs the ones supposedly coming this year is that last year the Ukrainians attacked an unprepared and overextended Russian front where the Ukrainians had a manpower advantage at the point of attack

    2. What would does “lost” mean for Anatoly? The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow? Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Greasy William

    If Karlin is predicting a swift Russian defeat then it may be a slow Russian victory.
    Similar to the Kiev falling in 48 hrs thing.

    Below more - thread on the Iron Stick Lamas or martial Bon Monks of Tibet.
    They protect Buddhist monastaries, but follow Bon.

    https://twitter.com/Yellowriver478/status/1607209616370470914

    Click for more tweets & a 2nd thread. :pray: :crossed_swords:

    , @LatW
    @Greasy William


    What would does “lost” mean for Anatoly?
     
    That they not only cannot move further, but probably will lose some areas in the South. That would already be considered a loss for RU imperial nationalists.

    The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow?
     
    No, but there could be political consequences.

    Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?
     
    Yes, but in that case the war will already be on their borders. If Ukrainians get the 150km range missile, which is being discussed in the most recent package, then they can strike quite deep into the Russian territory.

    Apparently, Crimea is harder to defend than the Donbas.
  16. Sher Singh says:
    @Greasy William
    @Sher Singh

    1. The difference between the Ukrainian counter offensives last year vs the ones supposedly coming this year is that last year the Ukrainians attacked an unprepared and overextended Russian front where the Ukrainians had a manpower advantage at the point of attack

    2. What would does "lost" mean for Anatoly? The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow? Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    If Karlin is predicting a swift Russian defeat then it may be a slow Russian victory.
    Similar to the Kiev falling in 48 hrs thing.

    Below more – thread on the Iron Stick Lamas or martial Bon Monks of Tibet.
    They protect Buddhist monastaries, but follow Bon.

    [MORE]

    Click for more tweets & a 2nd thread. :pray: :crossed_swords:

  17. In racing news the full replay of the 24 Hours of Daytona is available for streaming.

    Acura has nailed the new GTP specification. I will *homer* and root for the Cadillac cars. Alas, it will take something surprising to reach the top step of the podium.

    The official guide to cars & drivers is here:

    https://spotterguides.com/portfolio/23_imsa/

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Matra
    @A123

    How come you never have Formula E updates? it's almost like you don't consider it real racing even with its great engine sounds!

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123

  18. @Greasy William
    I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot's of Ukrainians won't win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine's army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia's politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn't win wars. Ukraine's advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it's territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin's government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234, @RadicalCenter

    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn’t going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either

    No matter how many times you repeat this… It is still 100% fiction.

    Under the Constitution, the House starts Appropriations. Not-The-President Biden will be under pressure. And, the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦 is running out of steam.

    The most vicious blow is that every cent of Ukraine spending will be enthusiastically audited. Without 10% For The Big Guy , funds will be channeled to expenditures that are easier to corrupt and graft. Kiev regime aggression is the gold strike that is now fully played out.

    Inertia will keep lesser sums flowing for a while longer.

    The question is, “Will France🇫🇷 & Germany🇩🇪 pick up the slack of $3-5B per month?”

    Signs point to NO. The European Empire wanted this war, but are unwilling to fund it.

    PEACE 😇

  19. @Greasy William
    @Sher Singh

    1. The difference between the Ukrainian counter offensives last year vs the ones supposedly coming this year is that last year the Ukrainians attacked an unprepared and overextended Russian front where the Ukrainians had a manpower advantage at the point of attack

    2. What would does "lost" mean for Anatoly? The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow? Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    What would does “lost” mean for Anatoly?

    That they not only cannot move further, but probably will lose some areas in the South. That would already be considered a loss for RU imperial nationalists.

    The Ukrainians are going to conquer Moscow?

    No, but there could be political consequences.

    Because even if Ukraine reconquers the entirety of pre 2014 Ukraine, Russia may choose to continue fighting. Russia can fight forever, can Ukraine?

    Yes, but in that case the war will already be on their borders. If Ukrainians get the 150km range missile, which is being discussed in the most recent package, then they can strike quite deep into the Russian territory.

    Apparently, Crimea is harder to defend than the Donbas.

  20. @Greasy William
    I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot's of Ukrainians won't win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine's army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia's politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn't win wars. Ukraine's advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it's territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin's government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234, @RadicalCenter

    Let’s try stick to the facts we actually know.

    1. Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.

    2. The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.

    3. Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes. To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment with minimal losses.

    4. Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment. Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.

    That’s all we know for sure.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.
     
    Correct. Emphasis on potential.

    The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.
     
    Mostly correct. Belgorod gets bombed occasionally.

    Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes.
     
    False. See below:

    To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment
     
    Being forced to withdraw is a loss. Russia had declared Kherson its own province, yet abandoned the capital when Ukraine made Russia's position on the right bank of the Dnipro untenable. Russia took casualties around Kiev, and retreated to Belarus.

    It's better to retreat and evacuate in an orderly way with one's equipment than otherwise, but a retreat is a defeat in that theater. Such wishful thinking otherwise.

    Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment.
     
    That this is known for sure - false.

    We can't be sure of casualty numbers.

    Nor is Russia slowly advancing on all frontlines.

    Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.
     
    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not "to no avail."

    Replies: @QCIC, @Greasy William

  21. Iraqi Information Minister reviews
    Promethean Pirate
    Jason Reza Jorjani
    Arktos Press 2022
    188 pp

    When Wolfram published his New Kind of Science back in 2002 Cosma Shalizi wrote a review of the work with the memorable title:

    A Rare Blend of Monster Raving Egomania and Utter Batshit Insanity

    http://xahlee.info/cmaci/ca/A_Rare_Blend_of_Monster_Raving_Egomania_and_Utter_Batshit_Insanity_by_Cosma_Shalizi.txt

    A lot of readers thought Shalizi’s review was superior to the book. I cannot promise you that you are going to find this review so entertaining. But. Jorjani’s book makes Wolfram’s writing look not quite so monstrous raving batshit by comparison.

    This is a companion to the earlier reviewed Closer Encounters. Almost all of the scientific speculations present in Promethean Pirate are already covered in much more detail in that book. In case you don’t remember these include, but are not limited to:

    {time travel, the singularity, the simulation, anti-gravity flying saucer propulsion, aliens, moon bases, sub-sea alien colonies on earth, reincarnation, psychic mind rays, breakaway civilization, &c. &c. }

    I could go on but my copy of Closer Encounters is not sitting on my desk top here and really, what more you could you possibly want in addition to the elements in this set?

    The new offering of 188 pages does contain some new information. As near as I could tell all of the new information consists of personal details. The new items (I know I am leaving out something here but this is going to be more than enough):

    I.
    Jorjani is clairaudient. He hears voices giving him the greatest dope. Here is the really weird thing about that. His voice (he has hundred youtubes) is not trained except possibly by the most inept speech therapist in history. This is not the first instance of special speaking or listening powers claimed by a notable individual who speaks with a negative quantity of skill.

    To cite one example: Israel Regardie. This was the writer of the Golden Dawn magic system encyclopedia and widely respected occultist. In the words of his friend and business partner Christopher Hyatt, Regardie’s first vocal impression is that he sounds like Elmer Fudd. This guy:

    The files are there for your own examination but I am going to assert that Jason Jorjani sounds like Elmer Fudd. Or at least a lot closer to Elmer Fudd than any philosophy professor I ever heard. If John Searle takes this guy serious I am shocked. There are other similar examples.

    II.
    His main source of clairaudient data is himself, traveling back to now from the future, where he has been reincarnated. As a she.

    III.
    A very long story about how his friends Jeffrey Mishlove and Jeffrey Kripal and Jeffrey Epstein (HA HA just kidding about that last name) double crossed him and joined in the pile on when he was getting fired from his teaching gig at New Jersey Technology Institute. Also this was orchestrated by the deep state.

    IV
    Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell are in this book. I was only sort of kidding in III. Jorjani attended Dalton School where Epstein was a teacher long ago and before Jorjani’s time. One of his classmates was one of Epstein’s hos. Not sure how the experts calculate but I believe this is one degree of separation. Jorjani opines that Epstein and Maxwell are/were misunderstood genius visionaries.

    Well that’s sure one way to look at it.

    There’s more but my press deadline is in two minutes. Here is why you should read this book: it is entertaining as hell. Closest comparison is an Alan Moore graphic novel. My favorite is Providence but the fellow has many good ones. The biggest mistake in presentation is the obsession with Nordic aliens. Boo.

    I am on team Mantids.

  22. @A123
    In racing news the full replay of the 24 Hours of Daytona is available for streaming.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7b2HkIAVZHM

    Acura has nailed the new GTP specification. I will *homer* and root for the Cadillac cars. Alas, it will take something surprising to reach the top step of the podium.


    The official guide to cars & drivers is here:

    https://spotterguides.com/portfolio/23_imsa/

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Matra

    How come you never have Formula E updates? it’s almost like you don’t consider it real racing even with its great engine sounds!

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Matra

    Sacre bleu, heresy!

    It is a tragedy, since Matra's namesake produced one of the best sounding V-12 F1 engine's ever!
    To lust after the electric abominations is shameful.

    High Test >>> Batteries

    France is truly lost :(

    Replies: @Matra

    , @A123
    @Matra

    The electric motor sounds I could survive. This year's cars look like they have been pummeled with an "ugly stick".

     
    https://media.motorbox.com/image/formula-e-2023-test-valencia-tutte-le-auto-in-pista-nella-simulazione-gara/7/7/7/777917/777917-16x9-sm.jpg
     

    Seriously, who approved that design? It is hard to take seriously.
    ___

    I hope that decent English language coverage of Japan's Super GT500 racing comes back. It is awesome machinery on iconic tracks.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wanderghost

  23. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    Let’s try stick to the facts we actually know.

    1. Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.

    2. The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.

    3. Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes. To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment with minimal losses.

    4. Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment. Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.

    That’s all we know for sure.

    Replies: @AP

    Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.

    Correct. Emphasis on potential.

    The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.

    Mostly correct. Belgorod gets bombed occasionally.

    Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes.

    False. See below:

    To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment

    Being forced to withdraw is a loss. Russia had declared Kherson its own province, yet abandoned the capital when Ukraine made Russia’s position on the right bank of the Dnipro untenable. Russia took casualties around Kiev, and retreated to Belarus.

    It’s better to retreat and evacuate in an orderly way with one’s equipment than otherwise, but a retreat is a defeat in that theater. Such wishful thinking otherwise.

    Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment.

    That this is known for sure – false.

    We can’t be sure of casualty numbers.

    Nor is Russia slowly advancing on all frontlines.

    Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.

    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not “to no avail.”

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    I still have not heard which Ukrainian air defenses have been keeping Russian bombers at bay for the past 9 months.

    My understanding is the hand held Stinger-class missiles cannot reach high and fast bombers, while Ukraine's more capable NATO missiles are destroyed as required.

    I think the Russian military is still moving on her own terms to set up the correct state of affairs after Ukraine capitulates.

    Can someone explain?

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Greasy William
    @AP


    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not “to no avail.”
     
    Although we can't know for sure, based on the information available to us now it does appear likely that Ukraine is suffering greater casualties in Bakhmut than are the Russians. This is what we would expect as Bakhmut is a Verdun type situation and Zelensky is a vain and arrogant man with a background in media who likely has a tendency to overestimate the important of optics.

    What's really interesting is that sometime in the next 3 weeks Russia is going to launch a proper, operational offensive, as opposed to tactical assaults on fortified towns. Russia has not launched such a campaign since its initial offensive petered out last summer.

    Will this new offensive be successful? I would expect not. I'm certain the Russians will achieve breakthrough, because the Ukrainian lines are so thinly stretched, but Russian C&C is clumsy and Russia lacks necessary manpower superiority for such a sweeping offensive to succeed (hence Putin's increasingly deluded threats). Further, in mobile operations, Russia's artillery advantage is much less of a factor than it is in stagnant trench warfare.

    I am predicting that the Russian invasion will be a costly failure. I think it will be somewhat similar to the German Operation Michael at the end of WWI where tremendous territorial gains were made but then quickly relinquished with both sides suffering heavy casualties but Germany losing it's offensive capability. I also think that the Ukrainian offensives that will follow in the summer and fall will also be costly failures.

    It is possible that by the end of the year both sides at least begin considering a negotiated settlement. The US would certainly be eager to broker a deal.
  24. @Matra
    @A123

    How come you never have Formula E updates? it's almost like you don't consider it real racing even with its great engine sounds!

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123

    Sacre bleu, heresy!

    It is a tragedy, since Matra’s namesake produced one of the best sounding V-12 F1 engine’s ever!
    To lust after the electric abominations is shameful.

    High Test >>> Batteries

    France is truly lost 🙁

    • Replies: @Matra
    @QCIC

    Just having a laugh. I was raised attending TT racing (bikes...and sidecars too!) on the Isle of Man and N Ireland. I've been an on again off again F1 fan since the early 1980s. This past weekend I just happened to catch about ten minutes of some Formula E race in some Sheikhdom and was immediately struck by the squealing sound of the cars. The last F1 race I attended - Indianapolis 2001 - had pretty bad engine sounds, especially when compared to the 80s turbo racing, but that Formula E sound is just horrific beyond words. What is most blackpilling is listening to even the drivers talk like woketards about the need to leave the past behind and move into the brave new world of electric cars.

    Replies: @QCIC

  25. @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.
     
    Correct. Emphasis on potential.

    The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.
     
    Mostly correct. Belgorod gets bombed occasionally.

    Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes.
     
    False. See below:

    To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment
     
    Being forced to withdraw is a loss. Russia had declared Kherson its own province, yet abandoned the capital when Ukraine made Russia's position on the right bank of the Dnipro untenable. Russia took casualties around Kiev, and retreated to Belarus.

    It's better to retreat and evacuate in an orderly way with one's equipment than otherwise, but a retreat is a defeat in that theater. Such wishful thinking otherwise.

    Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment.
     
    That this is known for sure - false.

    We can't be sure of casualty numbers.

    Nor is Russia slowly advancing on all frontlines.

    Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.
     
    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not "to no avail."

    Replies: @QCIC, @Greasy William

    I still have not heard which Ukrainian air defenses have been keeping Russian bombers at bay for the past 9 months.

    My understanding is the hand held Stinger-class missiles cannot reach high and fast bombers, while Ukraine’s more capable NATO missiles are destroyed as required.

    I think the Russian military is still moving on her own terms to set up the correct state of affairs after Ukraine capitulates.

    Can someone explain?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @QCIC

    You seem to be operating under faulty assumption, that RF is not intensively airbombing UA, because they are sort of kindhearted, but current Kremlin ruler would be more than happy to drop plenty of dumb bombs onto electrical grid or cities insted of wasting way more pricey and rarer rocketry stocks.

    UA always had and still has more than enough reliable anti-air systems (S-300 and Buk), which would make potential RF aircraft losses entirely irreplacable with current domestic production rate capabilities.

    Even absolutely hardcore old Soviet vatnik, former USSR air force colonel Viktor Alksnis, who is supporting Zoperation and wants to drop nukes on UA, is admitting it lately and explains the causes as simply usual banal incompetence and corruption in the army, which are blossoming under Putin's everlasting rule:


    In connection with the problems of our aviation, especially strike aviation, in Ukraine, when, due to serious losses, it is practically not used in the depth of the tactical, and even more so in the operational depth of the enemy’s defense, the question arises about the use of such aviation weapons that make it possible to strike at the enemy, without entering the zone of destruction of its air defense.

    Since we have been unable to suppress the air defense of Ukraine, this is the best way to solve this problem. And in this regard, we recall precise gliding bombs, which are in service with the United States and its allies and are widely used by them in military conflicts, but we don’t seem to have them in our own service, which is puzzling.
     

    https://vk.com/id701885602?w=wall701885602_57190

    Replies: @QCIC

  26. @Matra
    @A123

    How come you never have Formula E updates? it's almost like you don't consider it real racing even with its great engine sounds!

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123

    The electric motor sounds I could survive. This year’s cars look like they have been pummeled with an “ugly stick”.

     

     

    Seriously, who approved that design? It is hard to take seriously.
    ___

    I hope that decent English language coverage of Japan’s Super GT500 racing comes back. It is awesome machinery on iconic tracks.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wanderghost
    @A123

    Does Scalextric have a team?

  27. @QCIC
    @Matra

    Sacre bleu, heresy!

    It is a tragedy, since Matra's namesake produced one of the best sounding V-12 F1 engine's ever!
    To lust after the electric abominations is shameful.

    High Test >>> Batteries

    France is truly lost :(

    Replies: @Matra

    Just having a laugh. I was raised attending TT racing (bikes…and sidecars too!) on the Isle of Man and N Ireland. I’ve been an on again off again F1 fan since the early 1980s. This past weekend I just happened to catch about ten minutes of some Formula E race in some Sheikhdom and was immediately struck by the squealing sound of the cars. The last F1 race I attended – Indianapolis 2001 – had pretty bad engine sounds, especially when compared to the 80s turbo racing, but that Formula E sound is just horrific beyond words. What is most blackpilling is listening to even the drivers talk like woketards about the need to leave the past behind and move into the brave new world of electric cars.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Matra

    Phew, that was close!

    I hope to get to the IOM TT or NW200 before I croak.

    Is your handle named after the F1 car?

    Replies: @A123, @Matra

  28. @AP
    @AnonfromTN


    Due to population difference (Ukraine has 3.5-5.5 fewer people than Russia; the spread is because we know Russian population, but have to guess the Ukrainian one, as the last proper census in Ukraine was in 2001), Russia has huge advantage in potential manpower.
     
    Correct. Emphasis on potential.

    The war is going on the territory Ukraine considers its own, because Russia captured a big chunk of Ukraine, and subsequently lost only a portion of it.
     
    Mostly correct. Belgorod gets bombed occasionally.

    Despite huge influx of Western weapons, Western assistance with communications and satellite/spy plane observation, Ukrainian military had only two successful local counter-offensives: the area near Kupyansk/Balakleya and near Liman. Only these two can be counted as Ukrainian successes.
     
    False. See below:

    To minimize its casualties, after long and thorough preparations, including evacuation of civilians, Russian troops withdrew from Kherson and areas on the right side of Dnieper. This cannot be counted as Ukrainian success as Russian army prevented Ukrainian troops from advancing on the heels of retreating RF troops, which were able to evacuate their equipment
     
    Being forced to withdraw is a loss. Russia had declared Kherson its own province, yet abandoned the capital when Ukraine made Russia's position on the right bank of the Dnipro untenable. Russia took casualties around Kiev, and retreated to Belarus.

    It's better to retreat and evacuate in an orderly way with one's equipment than otherwise, but a retreat is a defeat in that theater. Such wishful thinking otherwise.

    Since then the RF is slowly advancing on all frontlines, inflicting huge casualties on Ukrainian troops, in soldiers and military equipment.
     
    That this is known for sure - false.

    We can't be sure of casualty numbers.

    Nor is Russia slowly advancing on all frontlines.

    Ukraine is throwing more and more men into the meatgrinder of Artemovsk, just like they did in Soledar, to no avail.
     
    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not "to no avail."

    Replies: @QCIC, @Greasy William

    If the casualty ratio favors Ukraine in Bakhmut (we cannot be sure know if so, or not), then it is not “to no avail.”

    Although we can’t know for sure, based on the information available to us now it does appear likely that Ukraine is suffering greater casualties in Bakhmut than are the Russians. This is what we would expect as Bakhmut is a Verdun type situation and Zelensky is a vain and arrogant man with a background in media who likely has a tendency to overestimate the important of optics.

    What’s really interesting is that sometime in the next 3 weeks Russia is going to launch a proper, operational offensive, as opposed to tactical assaults on fortified towns. Russia has not launched such a campaign since its initial offensive petered out last summer.

    Will this new offensive be successful? I would expect not. I’m certain the Russians will achieve breakthrough, because the Ukrainian lines are so thinly stretched, but Russian C&C is clumsy and Russia lacks necessary manpower superiority for such a sweeping offensive to succeed (hence Putin’s increasingly deluded threats). Further, in mobile operations, Russia’s artillery advantage is much less of a factor than it is in stagnant trench warfare.

    I am predicting that the Russian invasion will be a costly failure. I think it will be somewhat similar to the German Operation Michael at the end of WWI where tremendous territorial gains were made but then quickly relinquished with both sides suffering heavy casualties but Germany losing it’s offensive capability. I also think that the Ukrainian offensives that will follow in the summer and fall will also be costly failures.

    It is possible that by the end of the year both sides at least begin considering a negotiated settlement. The US would certainly be eager to broker a deal.

  29. I was just thinking, Putin is in a strange situation where the worse he does, the more the US is able to offer him.

    Based on the RAND article, we know that the US is willing to offer Putin a ton. Here is what the US is willing to give Putin:

    1. A formal commitment that Ukraine (and Georgia) will never join NATO or the EU
    2. Informal recognition of Russian claims on all of Ukraine that Russia currently occupies
    3. An end of the 2022 sanctions and a path to removal of the 2014 sanctions. The $300 billion in frozen Russian assets can be released although I would expect that at least some would need to be “invested” in Ukrainian reconstruction
    4. An informal commitment to not increase Ukrainian offensive military strength beyond where it is now (i.e. US will ensure that Ukraine has a defensive army of light infantry, artillery and air defense but minimal armor, airpower or long range attack capabilities)
    5. A commitment to broker rapprochement between the Ukrainian and Russian governments, the US will have an interest in ensuring that relations between the two are as healthy and intertwined as is feasible
    6. Zelensky can be replaced. Although it isn’t clear that the US is offering that at this time I’m sure that the US would be happy to put in a different puppet
    7. Dissolution of the Ukrainian nationalist militias. Again, the RAND article didn’t say anything about this but the purges going on in the Ukrainian government right now do signify that the US is looking to make major changes in how the Ukrainian state operates

    All of this allows Putin to claim victory and to begin restoring the Russian economy and Russia state finances, along with stopping and likely reversing the brain drain Russia has suffered since the war began. It also will end Russia’s international isolation and free Russia from being China’s junior partner, while increasing Russian soft power.

    So why would the US agree to all of this? Initially I was extremely puzzled by this and thought it must be that the US is weaker than we realized and was worried about its own ability to keep up the fight. But upon further reflection, I don’t believe that is the case.

    First of all, the US’s number one goal is and always has been that the conflict does not escalate into a direct clash between Russia and NATO.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.

    More importantly, however, it has become increasingly obvious that the US sees China, not Russia, as its primary rival. So not only does the US want this war over ASAP as a means of shifting focus back to China, but the US also has a strategic interest in ending Russia’s current status as China’s junior partner. This is kinda the Cold War situation in reverse.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Greasy William


    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.
     
    Not even mentioned that in one single year US has achieved the holy atlanticist grail of severing Europe from Eurasian energetic strangle, which began in 70's, this alone is just as, or even more, important overall victorious development than ongoing purely military front in bloodied, but still existing and alive UA state.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable. However, the US demonstrated that it is not agreement-capable pretty convincingly many times. I don’t think any responsible person in Russia would believe American promises, including written ones. Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero. This makes any agreement impossible, leaving brute force as the only means of protecting your interests.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

  30. @Matra
    @QCIC

    Just having a laugh. I was raised attending TT racing (bikes...and sidecars too!) on the Isle of Man and N Ireland. I've been an on again off again F1 fan since the early 1980s. This past weekend I just happened to catch about ten minutes of some Formula E race in some Sheikhdom and was immediately struck by the squealing sound of the cars. The last F1 race I attended - Indianapolis 2001 - had pretty bad engine sounds, especially when compared to the 80s turbo racing, but that Formula E sound is just horrific beyond words. What is most blackpilling is listening to even the drivers talk like woketards about the need to leave the past behind and move into the brave new world of electric cars.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Phew, that was close!

    I hope to get to the IOM TT or NW200 before I croak.

    Is your handle named after the F1 car?

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC

    The Bathurst 12hr is on my list. It starts in 1 day / 16 hours / 19 minutes.

    https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/

    Bathurst had a race stopped because of an echidna on track. Not sure if it was the 12hr or the V8 Supercars.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.wseetonline.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Echidna-causes-chaos-at-Bathurst-1000.jpg

    , @Matra
    @QCIC

    Yes. The first time I was tempted to comment online (late 2001) I had an illustrated history of F1 sitting in front of me. I chose the name fairly randomly then decided to stick with it.

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

  31. @QCIC
    @Matra

    Phew, that was close!

    I hope to get to the IOM TT or NW200 before I croak.

    Is your handle named after the F1 car?

    Replies: @A123, @Matra

    The Bathurst 12hr is on my list. It starts in 1 day / 16 hours / 19 minutes.

    https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/

    Bathurst had a race stopped because of an echidna on track. Not sure if it was the 12hr or the V8 Supercars.

    PEACE 😇

     

  32. @Greasy William
    I was just thinking, Putin is in a strange situation where the worse he does, the more the US is able to offer him.

    Based on the RAND article, we know that the US is willing to offer Putin a ton. Here is what the US is willing to give Putin:

    1. A formal commitment that Ukraine (and Georgia) will never join NATO or the EU
    2. Informal recognition of Russian claims on all of Ukraine that Russia currently occupies
    3. An end of the 2022 sanctions and a path to removal of the 2014 sanctions. The $300 billion in frozen Russian assets can be released although I would expect that at least some would need to be "invested" in Ukrainian reconstruction
    4. An informal commitment to not increase Ukrainian offensive military strength beyond where it is now (i.e. US will ensure that Ukraine has a defensive army of light infantry, artillery and air defense but minimal armor, airpower or long range attack capabilities)
    5. A commitment to broker rapprochement between the Ukrainian and Russian governments, the US will have an interest in ensuring that relations between the two are as healthy and intertwined as is feasible
    6. Zelensky can be replaced. Although it isn't clear that the US is offering that at this time I'm sure that the US would be happy to put in a different puppet
    7. Dissolution of the Ukrainian nationalist militias. Again, the RAND article didn't say anything about this but the purges going on in the Ukrainian government right now do signify that the US is looking to make major changes in how the Ukrainian state operates

    All of this allows Putin to claim victory and to begin restoring the Russian economy and Russia state finances, along with stopping and likely reversing the brain drain Russia has suffered since the war began. It also will end Russia's international isolation and free Russia from being China's junior partner, while increasing Russian soft power.

    So why would the US agree to all of this? Initially I was extremely puzzled by this and thought it must be that the US is weaker than we realized and was worried about its own ability to keep up the fight. But upon further reflection, I don't believe that is the case.

    First of all, the US's number one goal is and always has been that the conflict does not escalate into a direct clash between Russia and NATO.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.

    More importantly, however, it has become increasingly obvious that the US sees China, not Russia, as its primary rival. So not only does the US want this war over ASAP as a means of shifting focus back to China, but the US also has a strategic interest in ending Russia's current status as China's junior partner. This is kinda the Cold War situation in reverse.

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN

    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.

    Not even mentioned that in one single year US has achieved the holy atlanticist grail of severing Europe from Eurasian energetic strangle, which began in 70’s, this alone is just as, or even more, important overall victorious development than ongoing purely military front in bloodied, but still existing and alive UA state.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @sudden death


    Not even mentioned that in one single year US has achieved the holy atlanticist grail of severing Europe from Eurasian energetic strangle which began in 70’s, this alone is just as, or even more, important overall victorious development than ongoing purely military front in bloodied, but still existing and alive UA state.
     
    And the US essentially got all this "for free", from the US perspective.

    Do you agree with the remainder of my brilliant analysis?
  33. @sudden death
    @Greasy William


    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.
     
    Not even mentioned that in one single year US has achieved the holy atlanticist grail of severing Europe from Eurasian energetic strangle, which began in 70's, this alone is just as, or even more, important overall victorious development than ongoing purely military front in bloodied, but still existing and alive UA state.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Not even mentioned that in one single year US has achieved the holy atlanticist grail of severing Europe from Eurasian energetic strangle which began in 70’s, this alone is just as, or even more, important overall victorious development than ongoing purely military front in bloodied, but still existing and alive UA state.

    And the US essentially got all this “for free”, from the US perspective.

    Do you agree with the remainder of my brilliant analysis?

  34. @QCIC
    @Matra

    Phew, that was close!

    I hope to get to the IOM TT or NW200 before I croak.

    Is your handle named after the F1 car?

    Replies: @A123, @Matra

    Yes. The first time I was tempted to comment online (late 2001) I had an illustrated history of F1 sitting in front of me. I chose the name fairly randomly then decided to stick with it.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Matra

    The need to give space to sponsors screwed up the looks of many cars. Despite the logo size, Jaguar F1 looked impressive. And, Mark Webber gave great character to the team.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/formula-1/2017/02/19/PD2137213_AFP_AUTO-F1-AUSTRALIA-HERBERT-IRVINE_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqUgehH7knIs2mL4LO-crfgs1waleSfGX6SyHhrOdAq00.jpg

    , @QCIC
    @Matra

    The Matra MS11 V-12 was a neat car. I think I first heard about it as a kid reading Road & Track.

    This was fine era in Grand Prix racing, if too dangerous for modern sensibilities. I say, "if the boys wanna fight you better let 'em!"

  35. @Matra
    @QCIC

    Yes. The first time I was tempted to comment online (late 2001) I had an illustrated history of F1 sitting in front of me. I chose the name fairly randomly then decided to stick with it.

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    The need to give space to sponsors screwed up the looks of many cars. Despite the logo size, Jaguar F1 looked impressive. And, Mark Webber gave great character to the team.

    PEACE 😇

     

  36. china-russia-all-the-way says:
    @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.

    I have plenty of male relatives who are in Ukraine and are willing to fight if called to do so but haven’t been mobilized (yet) because they aren’t needed due to not having had any military experience. Ukraine isn’t close to the point where every male they can find is in the military.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way, @Gerard1234

    Do your male relatives think about the future after victory? Ukraine joins the EU and values are imposed on it. The two most controversial ones are (1) mandatory exposure of transsexual content to young children and (2) acceptance of Muslim refugees.

    • LOL: sudden death
    • Replies: @AP
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Poland is fine and frankly even being like Germany better than being subjected to Chechen overlordship.

    Even the Western EU seems to be moving away from transsexualism. That’s a Puritan American thing.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

  37. @Matra
    @QCIC

    Yes. The first time I was tempted to comment online (late 2001) I had an illustrated history of F1 sitting in front of me. I chose the name fairly randomly then decided to stick with it.

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    The Matra MS11 V-12 was a neat car. I think I first heard about it as a kid reading Road & Track.

    This was fine era in Grand Prix racing, if too dangerous for modern sensibilities. I say, “if the boys wanna fight you better let ’em!”

  38. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    Do your male relatives think about the future after victory? Ukraine joins the EU and values are imposed on it. The two most controversial ones are (1) mandatory exposure of transsexual content to young children and (2) acceptance of Muslim refugees.

    Replies: @AP

    Poland is fine and frankly even being like Germany better than being subjected to Chechen overlordship.

    Even the Western EU seems to be moving away from transsexualism. That’s a Puritan American thing.

    • Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children's shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

  39. china-russia-all-the-way says:
    @AP
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Poland is fine and frankly even being like Germany better than being subjected to Chechen overlordship.

    Even the Western EU seems to be moving away from transsexualism. That’s a Puritan American thing.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children’s shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    It isn't a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.

    You may want them to have more children and not be fine with immigration, but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.

    This is also why birth rates are much lower in China, despite not even being developed, and despite it supposedly standing against progressive values.

    As for immigration, people basically aren't racist or selfish enough to try to maximise their own race's gain or their nation's liveability at the cost of the type of enforcement that would end multi-racialism or even make borders fully secure.

    I wonder what bubble you live in. Just go and talk to people. Do you see anyone displaying the type of racial animosity that would be spilling out constantly if repatriation were something they supported?

    Poland and Eastern Europe will need to set their own course, but they will be free to do as they want. "Control" from the West amounts to journalistic criticism and meaningless court cases used for moral posturing. Which is basically freedom. It is just that freedom doesn't guarantee how people will want to use it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    , @AP
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    We’ll, Poland remains about 99% Slavic, yet people weee saying 10 or 20 years ago that it would get flooded with Muslims and Africans.

    Btw, Russia (which is about 15% Muslim, more than most Western European countries), has removed visa requirements for some African country recently. From the perspective of staying European, better for Ukraine to go with Poland than to become part of Russia.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @LatW
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies
     
    Your newly founded concern about Eastern European nations such as Lithuania is quite strange. You did not care about the survival or the wellbeing of the Lithuanian nation back when they were invaded and shoved in trains to be deported, you didn't care about them in the early 1990s, when they, fresh out of the USSR, had to compete with cheap Chinese labor globally, you didn't even care about them for the last 30 years when they didn't always have it easy at all times.

    But somehow now you have started to care. How selfless of you! Your concern is so touching.

    Not.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

  40. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children's shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    It isn’t a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.

    You may want them to have more children and not be fine with immigration, but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.

    This is also why birth rates are much lower in China, despite not even being developed, and despite it supposedly standing against progressive values.

    As for immigration, people basically aren’t racist or selfish enough to try to maximise their own race’s gain or their nation’s liveability at the cost of the type of enforcement that would end multi-racialism or even make borders fully secure.

    I wonder what bubble you live in. Just go and talk to people. Do you see anyone displaying the type of racial animosity that would be spilling out constantly if repatriation were something they supported?

    Poland and Eastern Europe will need to set their own course, but they will be free to do as they want. “Control” from the West amounts to journalistic criticism and meaningless court cases used for moral posturing. Which is basically freedom. It is just that freedom doesn’t guarantee how people will want to use it.

    • Disagree: S
    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.
     
    Why do you feel so alienated by it?

    And why are you using the term hallucinating some insane narrative, as though you want to stigmatize it? How come you didn't feel that way about trannies, but said the whole thing was harmless?

    Thought you said that progressives were caring and care about everyone. Haven't quite figured out how to be nice to everyone yet, but are working their way through it, but you're using rather stigmatizing language. Don't you think?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    It isn’t a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.
     
    The problem with the conspiracy theory formulation is that the elites have been pretty transparent about what they are aiming towards. It's not a plot, just policy. The conspiracy narrative can be a problem since it often frames a fairly direct conversation in a way which seems nuts to many people.

    Also, the line between conspiracy and policy consensus is often a blurry one. As we see, the media, institutions, and state will often come together to push what is seen as "the right side of history". More often than not, it's because they truly believe it and all parties are drunk on the same collective narrative. It is even possible to lie to forward the narrative, while being fully captured by it oneself.

    I disagree with the direction, naturally enough, and so make my own choices in life and in how to raise my family. Nations should do the same as well, as you point out.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  41. See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Hung
    @HHungduc
    A group of Ukrainian soldiers – trained at a British military base last summer – surrendered just 20 minutes after encountering Russian forces near Svyatogorsk in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. “Grow troops for 3 years, use troops for 20 minutes” great.

    [MORE]

  42. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children's shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    We’ll, Poland remains about 99% Slavic, yet people weee saying 10 or 20 years ago that it would get flooded with Muslims and Africans.

    Btw, Russia (which is about 15% Muslim, more than most Western European countries), has removed visa requirements for some African country recently. From the perspective of staying European, better for Ukraine to go with Poland than to become part of Russia.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The issue in Russia about Muslims. There are maps showing where they live...It's mostly in the Caucasus Mountains and near Astrakhan. This is where you'd expect to find them.

    In Western Europe the Muslims are heavily concentrated in London, Paris, Rotterdam, Cologne, Berlin, Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmo.

    Moscow is in many ways the largest city in continental Europe and the last dropping off point before Asia. But it has not radically changed for 150 years.

    Replies: @AP

  43. @Leaves No Shadow
    MacGregor continues to predict total Russian victory in 10 days. This is now the 34th time he has done so. Wrong 34 times in a row! Maybe he'll be right the 35th?

    Russian casualities 150,000. For dead, divide by 2.5.

    Ukrainian casualities 90,000. For dead, divide by 3.

    Both sides are more conservative with their manpower than is usually believed.

    Ukraine has a far superior military to when the war began. Russia has twice the manpower but degraded effectiveness. This says what you need to know about the future trajectory and is near undeniable.

    Putin is like a Looney Tunes character who has run off a cliff. He'll fall as soon as he is honest and he looks down. That is why he drags this war on. He has no idea what else to do, even though there is no path to victory for him. Russia can't take any significant city, can't cause major attrition on the Ukrainians and can't conduct decisive manouevres. Instead, they are bogged down fighting for tiny settlements with their full forces and shelling empty trenches with wild inaccuracy. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians continue to attrit them with HIMARS and ambushes in defence.

    The gas weapon failed. Western economies are not even going into recession this year. No foreign aid has been given to Russia, so Russian diplomacy is failed too. The sum of their efforts being to sell gas and oil at half price in exchange for a few countries being willing to say neutral words for them at the UN and invite Putin to coffee! That's some expensive coffee!

    Meanwhile, developed democracy financial commitments to Ukraine are minor though rising, and they aren't going to stop, given they are 0.something % of GDP.

    Possibly the Ukrainians will advance on Melitopol as soon as the ground dries and this war will be over. Possibly the map will look much like now when going into 2024 and the Russian elections.

    Either way it is a disaster for Eastern Slavs, a black mark on everyone who supported Putin's aggression, and revealing of how ludicrously stupid most "dissidents" are. They literally cannot remember a week ago nor be even borderline coherent. Perhaps it is unsurprising that 80% of them are the most defective people in the West. Just look through their comment histories and past article predictions. I've never seen any movement more obviously revealed as insane and incompetent!

    Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)

    They still haven’t got Bakhmut you’re right how much ever my heart want’s Russians to win. Objective facts have to be registered in minds of intellectually honest observers Ukraines has badly mauled the bear thanks to their valiant sons who have stood their grounds and have perished by their tens of thousands. One of the greatest military upsets in history, Who would have thought that what a catastrophic failure of Russian Intelligence to underestimate their will to fight and die and get blown up by the relentless Russian shelling and still not yield.

    Of course the West’s humongous military support factors in the equation but it’s the secondary factor just like the lend and lease in the second world war what use would have it been if the Russians just threw in the towel.

    All cheers to these valiant sons of Ukraine

    But, there’s always a but

    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it’s pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos

    Young men

    AP, Mr. Hack, LATw

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally… make some kind of deal they’re getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it’s not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Grahamsno(G64)


    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it’s pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos
     
    Russia is not agreement capable as Putin is unable even to define his war aims. His incentive is merely to continue the war for as long as possible, as he is done for as soon as the music stops.

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally… make some kind of deal they’re getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.
     
    Russia failed in Afghanistan, failed against the Japanese and failed into catatsrophe in WW1. It took 6 months for them to take Soledar, while they lost Kherson, and much else besides. Soledar is basically a village. They are as likely to take Kharkhiv as Ukraine is to take Moscow.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it’s not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.
     
    India's performance post-independence has been embarrassing. No wonder you feel an affinity with Russia. Both are hugely cultured places that have a tendency to fail to learn from their mistakes because they continually and resentfully blame others. This observation comes from a place of love. Take it as you will. I'm optimistic on the future of India as it has many of the best and brightest in the world, but the third world ideology and its ennervating narratives do you no practical favours. Nevermind how extremely condescending it implicitly treats Indians as.

    Replies: @Grahamsno(G64), @Ivashka the fool

  44. @Leaves No Shadow
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    It isn't a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.

    You may want them to have more children and not be fine with immigration, but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.

    This is also why birth rates are much lower in China, despite not even being developed, and despite it supposedly standing against progressive values.

    As for immigration, people basically aren't racist or selfish enough to try to maximise their own race's gain or their nation's liveability at the cost of the type of enforcement that would end multi-racialism or even make borders fully secure.

    I wonder what bubble you live in. Just go and talk to people. Do you see anyone displaying the type of racial animosity that would be spilling out constantly if repatriation were something they supported?

    Poland and Eastern Europe will need to set their own course, but they will be free to do as they want. "Control" from the West amounts to journalistic criticism and meaningless court cases used for moral posturing. Which is basically freedom. It is just that freedom doesn't guarantee how people will want to use it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.

    Why do you feel so alienated by it?

    And why are you using the term hallucinating some insane narrative, as though you want to stigmatize it? How come you didn’t feel that way about trannies, but said the whole thing was harmless?

    Thought you said that progressives were caring and care about everyone. Haven’t quite figured out how to be nice to everyone yet, but are working their way through it, but you’re using rather stigmatizing language. Don’t you think?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Trannies are also deeply delusional. I just care more about diminishing the delusions of those I am otherwise minded to agree with, more than I am minded to deal with those of whom I don't.

  45. @Grahamsno(G64)
    @Leaves No Shadow

    They still haven't got Bakhmut you're right how much ever my heart want's Russians to win. Objective facts have to be registered in minds of intellectually honest observers Ukraines has badly mauled the bear thanks to their valiant sons who have stood their grounds and have perished by their tens of thousands. One of the greatest military upsets in history, Who would have thought that what a catastrophic failure of Russian Intelligence to underestimate their will to fight and die and get blown up by the relentless Russian shelling and still not yield.

    Of course the West's humongous military support factors in the equation but it's the secondary factor just like the lend and lease in the second world war what use would have it been if the Russians just threw in the towel.

    All cheers to these valiant sons of Ukraine

    But, there's always a but

    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it's pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos

    Young men

    AP, Mr. Hack, LATw

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally... make some kind of deal they're getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it's not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it’s pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos

    Russia is not agreement capable as Putin is unable even to define his war aims. His incentive is merely to continue the war for as long as possible, as he is done for as soon as the music stops.

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally… make some kind of deal they’re getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.

    Russia failed in Afghanistan, failed against the Japanese and failed into catatsrophe in WW1. It took 6 months for them to take Soledar, while they lost Kherson, and much else besides. Soledar is basically a village. They are as likely to take Kharkhiv as Ukraine is to take Moscow.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it’s not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.

    India’s performance post-independence has been embarrassing. No wonder you feel an affinity with Russia. Both are hugely cultured places that have a tendency to fail to learn from their mistakes because they continually and resentfully blame others. This observation comes from a place of love. Take it as you will. I’m optimistic on the future of India as it has many of the best and brightest in the world, but the third world ideology and its ennervating narratives do you no practical favours. Nevermind how extremely condescending it implicitly treats Indians as.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    @Leaves No Shadow

    We Indians are Supporting Russia in this war and + another 1.4 billion Chinese so at the least 3 billion people - the demographincs address it sir/ma'am

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Laxa, welcome back !

    🙂

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mikel

  46. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.
     
    Why do you feel so alienated by it?

    And why are you using the term hallucinating some insane narrative, as though you want to stigmatize it? How come you didn't feel that way about trannies, but said the whole thing was harmless?

    Thought you said that progressives were caring and care about everyone. Haven't quite figured out how to be nice to everyone yet, but are working their way through it, but you're using rather stigmatizing language. Don't you think?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Trannies are also deeply delusional. I just care more about diminishing the delusions of those I am otherwise minded to agree with, more than I am minded to deal with those of whom I don’t.

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  47. I am an atheist hindu I give a rat’s ass about Narendra Modi.

    So for sakes I want Russians to win we hope they break Bakhmut

    Do you seriously think I’ve read the Rig Veda fuck off we’re friends with the Russians and that’s what we are telling you despite our best minds going to the west there is something in our hearts that make us support RUSSIA

    I dont know but we will support MOTHER RUSSIA and fuck whatever may come

    It’s deep I don’t know why

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Grahamsno(G64)

    It's because Hindu = Wend(u)

    Not kidding friend...

    🙂

  48. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Grahamsno(G64)


    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it’s pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos
     
    Russia is not agreement capable as Putin is unable even to define his war aims. His incentive is merely to continue the war for as long as possible, as he is done for as soon as the music stops.

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally… make some kind of deal they’re getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.
     
    Russia failed in Afghanistan, failed against the Japanese and failed into catatsrophe in WW1. It took 6 months for them to take Soledar, while they lost Kherson, and much else besides. Soledar is basically a village. They are as likely to take Kharkhiv as Ukraine is to take Moscow.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it’s not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.
     
    India's performance post-independence has been embarrassing. No wonder you feel an affinity with Russia. Both are hugely cultured places that have a tendency to fail to learn from their mistakes because they continually and resentfully blame others. This observation comes from a place of love. Take it as you will. I'm optimistic on the future of India as it has many of the best and brightest in the world, but the third world ideology and its ennervating narratives do you no practical favours. Nevermind how extremely condescending it implicitly treats Indians as.

    Replies: @Grahamsno(G64), @Ivashka the fool

    We Indians are Supporting Russia in this war and + another 1.4 billion Chinese so at the least 3 billion people – the demographincs address it sir/ma’am

  49. Brothers please stop the carnage no
    You don’t want it like India-Pakistan or Israel Palestine and know Russia Ukraine

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  50. @Greasy William
    I was just thinking, Putin is in a strange situation where the worse he does, the more the US is able to offer him.

    Based on the RAND article, we know that the US is willing to offer Putin a ton. Here is what the US is willing to give Putin:

    1. A formal commitment that Ukraine (and Georgia) will never join NATO or the EU
    2. Informal recognition of Russian claims on all of Ukraine that Russia currently occupies
    3. An end of the 2022 sanctions and a path to removal of the 2014 sanctions. The $300 billion in frozen Russian assets can be released although I would expect that at least some would need to be "invested" in Ukrainian reconstruction
    4. An informal commitment to not increase Ukrainian offensive military strength beyond where it is now (i.e. US will ensure that Ukraine has a defensive army of light infantry, artillery and air defense but minimal armor, airpower or long range attack capabilities)
    5. A commitment to broker rapprochement between the Ukrainian and Russian governments, the US will have an interest in ensuring that relations between the two are as healthy and intertwined as is feasible
    6. Zelensky can be replaced. Although it isn't clear that the US is offering that at this time I'm sure that the US would be happy to put in a different puppet
    7. Dissolution of the Ukrainian nationalist militias. Again, the RAND article didn't say anything about this but the purges going on in the Ukrainian government right now do signify that the US is looking to make major changes in how the Ukrainian state operates

    All of this allows Putin to claim victory and to begin restoring the Russian economy and Russia state finances, along with stopping and likely reversing the brain drain Russia has suffered since the war began. It also will end Russia's international isolation and free Russia from being China's junior partner, while increasing Russian soft power.

    So why would the US agree to all of this? Initially I was extremely puzzled by this and thought it must be that the US is weaker than we realized and was worried about its own ability to keep up the fight. But upon further reflection, I don't believe that is the case.

    First of all, the US's number one goal is and always has been that the conflict does not escalate into a direct clash between Russia and NATO.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that the US expected Russia to conquer the entirety of Ukraine in a matter of weeks. This war ending with Ukraine continuing to be an independent state and having effectively stalemated the Russian military is such a strategic boon to the US that the US is willing to be very generous in peace terms because the US is essentially playing with house money.

    More importantly, however, it has become increasingly obvious that the US sees China, not Russia, as its primary rival. So not only does the US want this war over ASAP as a means of shifting focus back to China, but the US also has a strategic interest in ending Russia's current status as China's junior partner. This is kinda the Cold War situation in reverse.

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN

    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable. However, the US demonstrated that it is not agreement-capable pretty convincingly many times. I don’t think any responsible person in Russia would believe American promises, including written ones. Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero. This makes any agreement impossible, leaving brute force as the only means of protecting your interests.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @AnonfromTN

    But we're not talking about promises, we're talking about the US giving Russia concrete things (unfreezing the money, dropping the sanctions, formally committing that Ukraine and Georgia won't join NATO, getting rid of Zelensky and the militias). If the US decides to later go back on any agreements, Russia will have the option to restart hostilities with Ukraine, except from a stronger position than it is currently in.

    If Putin can get this deal, he should take it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable.
     
    Remember, the U.S. is walking away from Ukraine. That die is already cast. It just has not stopped rolling yet. Therefore, any U.S. stance has rapidly diminishing impact. Russia will soon be getting much of what it wants with no effort or concession.

    The problem rests with the European Empire and its client the Kiev regime. They are not agreement-capable.

    A resolution will appear when Ukraine obtains new leadership not slavishly loyal to European Elites. Zelensky will flee to Europe. Hopefully in Fall possibly early Winter this year. The next administration will agree to an armistice with Russia, and work out a deal that makes sense for the two countries actually engaged in the fight.

    Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero.
     
    Two catastrophic problems with your assertion:

    -1- Sociopath Khamenei violated (and thus abrogated) JCPOA while Obama was still in office. All Trump did was recognize that there was no logical reason to stay in a deal that Iran had already abandoned.

    -2- The Constitution requires a "Senate Ratified Treaty" to bind future administrations. There is no obligation to keep an Executive arrangement that is inherently flawed.

    The U.S. is agreement capable if there is a formal Treaty. Can you imagine anything the Veggie-in-Chief proposes reaching this standard? I cannot. Therefore, to be precise, Not-The-President Biden is not agreement-capable, because the ⅔ of the Senate will not go along.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  51. Just as a lark, A123 should set his spellcheck to UK, and then start throwing in words like “aluminium” and “oestrogen”, and “Nasa” though he mightn’t normally use them.

    Maybe, reference some candybar made only over there too.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Something like...

    "Cheerio chaps, the other day I was seated on the aluminium bleachers at my local raceway here in the Deep South, having just enjoyed a lovely bangers and mash, followed up by a Cadbury Wispa, one of my favourites! As I was having a butcher at the lovely cars it occurred to me how smashing Israel really is!

    Cor Blimey, that IslamoHomoFaschoSoros must be a barmy blighter to be opposing Israel and Donald Trump's stonking MAGA plans!"

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @A123
    @songbird

    I have enough problems with my current auto correct "aide". Why would you want to make that worse?

    Are you trying to arrange something like this?

    PEACE 😇

    https://youtu.be/865g8S4d2dQ

  52. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable. However, the US demonstrated that it is not agreement-capable pretty convincingly many times. I don’t think any responsible person in Russia would believe American promises, including written ones. Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero. This makes any agreement impossible, leaving brute force as the only means of protecting your interests.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

    But we’re not talking about promises, we’re talking about the US giving Russia concrete things (unfreezing the money, dropping the sanctions, formally committing that Ukraine and Georgia won’t join NATO, getting rid of Zelensky and the militias). If the US decides to later go back on any agreements, Russia will have the option to restart hostilities with Ukraine, except from a stronger position than it is currently in.

    If Putin can get this deal, he should take it.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    The sequence of events: the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something. Right at that point there would be full stop: nobody in his/her right mind would believe any US promise. So, it’s a dead end. Case closed.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

  53. @Leaves No Shadow
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    It isn't a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.

    You may want them to have more children and not be fine with immigration, but hallucinating some insane narrative, when these two basic facts explain everything, is alienating.

    This is also why birth rates are much lower in China, despite not even being developed, and despite it supposedly standing against progressive values.

    As for immigration, people basically aren't racist or selfish enough to try to maximise their own race's gain or their nation's liveability at the cost of the type of enforcement that would end multi-racialism or even make borders fully secure.

    I wonder what bubble you live in. Just go and talk to people. Do you see anyone displaying the type of racial animosity that would be spilling out constantly if repatriation were something they supported?

    Poland and Eastern Europe will need to set their own course, but they will be free to do as they want. "Control" from the West amounts to journalistic criticism and meaningless court cases used for moral posturing. Which is basically freedom. It is just that freedom doesn't guarantee how people will want to use it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    It isn’t a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.

    The problem with the conspiracy theory formulation is that the elites have been pretty transparent about what they are aiming towards. It’s not a plot, just policy. The conspiracy narrative can be a problem since it often frames a fairly direct conversation in a way which seems nuts to many people.

    Also, the line between conspiracy and policy consensus is often a blurry one. As we see, the media, institutions, and state will often come together to push what is seen as “the right side of history”. More often than not, it’s because they truly believe it and all parties are drunk on the same collective narrative. It is even possible to lie to forward the narrative, while being fully captured by it oneself.

    I disagree with the direction, naturally enough, and so make my own choices in life and in how to raise my family. Nations should do the same as well, as you point out.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    Yes, you're not wrong.

    But the difference in saying: "I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z", rather than "consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me" has many further implications.

    1. The latter makes the person look insane and hateful.

    2. The latter makes it impossible to persuade anyone who at least doesn't much mind consensus politics on immigration and natalism.

    3. The latter leads to all sorts of bizarre views and indeed ridiculous policy proposals. Suddenly you have people thinking they're going to get elected on a platform of banning women from holding property and leaving the house unaccompanied, for example.

    In other words, the latter is poisonous to everyone and every idea associated with it.

    The future for Western countries is not going to be as I would have preferred and I feel very sad about this and a deep sense of loss over what might have been, however these people are sacrificing their sanity in order to avoid these painful feelings and thereby dooming their politics. Anyone who has watched people deal badly with grief can see, in a microcosm, how this works, or rather doesn't work.

    This also doesn't mean there aren't crazy people with their own dysfunctions within the consensus view, but as far as crazy goes, there are less and their voices are better excluded.

    I also admire your efforts to live your life while accepting the reality of other people's. Everyone has to do that to some extent, it is just that political outliers often have to do it much more. Happily, the future will be much less bleak than the conspiracy theorists think, because there isn't actually a millenia old conspiracy of hate against them. And happily furthermore things have twisted and turned in human history in werid and wonderful ways. Even not long ago people were talking as if every third person in the world would be Chinese! I am neutral to the fact that it will likely be 1/12 or fewer by 2100, but notice how big the change is. I mean the Chinese are great but 1/3 or 1/12 really isn't important to me lol

    Replies: @A123

  54. Wonder how much of civility in Japan is due to the space that is open to promote polite mannerisms, since they don’t use this space for propagandizing ideology.

  55. @songbird
    Just as a lark, A123 should set his spellcheck to UK, and then start throwing in words like "aluminium" and "oestrogen", and "Nasa" though he mightn't normally use them.

    Maybe, reference some candybar made only over there too.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @A123

    Something like…

    “Cheerio chaps, the other day I was seated on the aluminium bleachers at my local raceway here in the Deep South, having just enjoyed a lovely bangers and mash, followed up by a Cadbury Wispa, one of my favourites! As I was having a butcher at the lovely cars it occurred to me how smashing Israel really is!

    Cor Blimey, that IslamoHomoFaschoSoros must be a barmy blighter to be opposing Israel and Donald Trump’s stonking MAGA plans!”

    • LOL: A123, songbird
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Barbarossa

    you got it wrong, it's "having a butchers..." (having a look). Butcher's Hook...Imposter!

  56. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable. However, the US demonstrated that it is not agreement-capable pretty convincingly many times. I don’t think any responsible person in Russia would believe American promises, including written ones. Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero. This makes any agreement impossible, leaving brute force as the only means of protecting your interests.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable.

    Remember, the U.S. is walking away from Ukraine. That die is already cast. It just has not stopped rolling yet. Therefore, any U.S. stance has rapidly diminishing impact. Russia will soon be getting much of what it wants with no effort or concession.

    The problem rests with the European Empire and its client the Kiev regime. They are not agreement-capable.

    A resolution will appear when Ukraine obtains new leadership not slavishly loyal to European Elites. Zelensky will flee to Europe. Hopefully in Fall possibly early Winter this year. The next administration will agree to an armistice with Russia, and work out a deal that makes sense for the two countries actually engaged in the fight.

    Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero.

    Two catastrophic problems with your assertion:

    -1- Sociopath Khamenei violated (and thus abrogated) JCPOA while Obama was still in office. All Trump did was recognize that there was no logical reason to stay in a deal that Iran had already abandoned.

    -2- The Constitution requires a “Senate Ratified Treaty” to bind future administrations. There is no obligation to keep an Executive arrangement that is inherently flawed.

    The U.S. is agreement capable if there is a formal Treaty. Can you imagine anything the Veggie-in-Chief proposes reaching this standard? I cannot. Therefore, to be precise, Not-The-President Biden is not agreement-capable, because the ⅔ of the Senate will not go along.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    Remember, the U.S. is walking away from Ukraine.
     
    Yeah, sure. That's why everyday that I watch the news, I see new weapons and funds earmarked for project Ukraine.

    Russia will soon be getting much of what it wants with no effort or concession.

     
    Dream again Appeaser Man. Nobody today knows how this war will end, and who will get what. As for 'no effort and no concesion" we just have to see what a terrible mess Russia has already gotten itself involved in. Another year or more of this?...you've got to be kidding.

    Zelensky will flee to Europe. Hopefully in Fall possibly early Winter this year.
     
    You've been tooting this tune from the beginning of the war. It's been almost a year already, and Zelensky is still firmly entrenched in Ukraine. Isn't it time to come up with another one of your BS stories?;

    The next administration will agree to an armistice with Russia, and work out a deal that makes sense for the two countries actually engaged in the fight.
     
    This sounds almost a dumb as your previous assertions that "Ukraine is fighting an offensive war against Russia" Haven't you heard, time and again from the US government spokespeople that it's Ukraine's call as to when this war will end?

    The Constitution requires a “Senate Ratified Treaty” to bind future administrations.

     

    No it doesn't. The support of Ukraine can continue as it's being done today. Only you know for sure that Trump will return to office and turn off all support for Ukraine. How's his chances look if he's personally convicted of tax fraud issues? The recent indictment of his lawyer and his organization that resulted in a 1.6 million penalty is only the first phase - it's going to go much deeper and get much more devastating for Trump than just this.
  57. @songbird
    Just as a lark, A123 should set his spellcheck to UK, and then start throwing in words like "aluminium" and "oestrogen", and "Nasa" though he mightn't normally use them.

    Maybe, reference some candybar made only over there too.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @A123

    I have enough problems with my current auto correct “aide”. Why would you want to make that worse?

    Are you trying to arrange something like this?

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: songbird
  58. @QCIC
    @AP

    I still have not heard which Ukrainian air defenses have been keeping Russian bombers at bay for the past 9 months.

    My understanding is the hand held Stinger-class missiles cannot reach high and fast bombers, while Ukraine's more capable NATO missiles are destroyed as required.

    I think the Russian military is still moving on her own terms to set up the correct state of affairs after Ukraine capitulates.

    Can someone explain?

    Replies: @sudden death

    You seem to be operating under faulty assumption, that RF is not intensively airbombing UA, because they are sort of kindhearted, but current Kremlin ruler would be more than happy to drop plenty of dumb bombs onto electrical grid or cities insted of wasting way more pricey and rarer rocketry stocks.

    UA always had and still has more than enough reliable anti-air systems (S-300 and Buk), which would make potential RF aircraft losses entirely irreplacable with current domestic production rate capabilities.

    Even absolutely hardcore old Soviet vatnik, former USSR air force colonel Viktor Alksnis, who is supporting Zoperation and wants to drop nukes on UA, is admitting it lately and explains the causes as simply usual banal incompetence and corruption in the army, which are blossoming under Putin’s everlasting rule:

    In connection with the problems of our aviation, especially strike aviation, in Ukraine, when, due to serious losses, it is practically not used in the depth of the tactical, and even more so in the operational depth of the enemy’s defense, the question arises about the use of such aviation weapons that make it possible to strike at the enemy, without entering the zone of destruction of its air defense.

    Since we have been unable to suppress the air defense of Ukraine, this is the best way to solve this problem. And in this regard, we recall precise gliding bombs, which are in service with the United States and its allies and are widely used by them in military conflicts, but we don’t seem to have them in our own service, which is puzzling.

    https://vk.com/id701885602?w=wall701885602_57190

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @sudden death

    Thanks for mentioning Alksnis.

    I am aware the RF has delivered many airstrikes and early on lost many aircraft. However, I also noticed they destroyed most of the Ukrainian S-300, Buk and older systems, though possibly not all that are emplaced near civilians. I doubt the Western replacement SAMs will fair much better.

    I think the RF does have fewer precision air dropped weapons and has not used them for as many strikes as the West would have in similar circumstances. I think without the lower cost precision weapons they are forced to fly riskier strikes. Is it possible the vatnik is simply lobbying for faster production of these weapons?

    This is different than the heavy bombing I mentioned. Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months? I am curious about the details I may have overlooked. This would be something like at least a handful of bombers dropping a full load of bombs on some broad area target as opposed to more surgical strikes with a missile. I don't think the Ukrainian air defenses can prevent such attacks.

    I still view the Russian air campaign in the SMO as a "kid-gloves" treatment.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  59. @AP
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    We’ll, Poland remains about 99% Slavic, yet people weee saying 10 or 20 years ago that it would get flooded with Muslims and Africans.

    Btw, Russia (which is about 15% Muslim, more than most Western European countries), has removed visa requirements for some African country recently. From the perspective of staying European, better for Ukraine to go with Poland than to become part of Russia.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The issue in Russia about Muslims. There are maps showing where they live…It’s mostly in the Caucasus Mountains and near Astrakhan. This is where you’d expect to find them.

    In Western Europe the Muslims are heavily concentrated in London, Paris, Rotterdam, Cologne, Berlin, Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmo.

    Moscow is in many ways the largest city in continental Europe and the last dropping off point before Asia. But it has not radically changed for 150 years.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke

    They also live along the Volga in the heart of Russia. And are at least 10% of Moscow’s population. That’s a lot less than in Paris, but the contrast with Kiev or Warsaw is striking.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/7/22/despite-animosity-moscows-muslims-change-the-city

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  60. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The issue in Russia about Muslims. There are maps showing where they live...It's mostly in the Caucasus Mountains and near Astrakhan. This is where you'd expect to find them.

    In Western Europe the Muslims are heavily concentrated in London, Paris, Rotterdam, Cologne, Berlin, Brussels, Copenhagen, Malmo.

    Moscow is in many ways the largest city in continental Europe and the last dropping off point before Asia. But it has not radically changed for 150 years.

    Replies: @AP

    They also live along the Volga in the heart of Russia. And are at least 10% of Moscow’s population. That’s a lot less than in Paris, but the contrast with Kiev or Warsaw is striking.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/7/22/despite-animosity-moscows-muslims-change-the-city

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.

    London, Rotterdam or Hamburg is core Europe.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  61. @Greasy William
    @AnonfromTN

    But we're not talking about promises, we're talking about the US giving Russia concrete things (unfreezing the money, dropping the sanctions, formally committing that Ukraine and Georgia won't join NATO, getting rid of Zelensky and the militias). If the US decides to later go back on any agreements, Russia will have the option to restart hostilities with Ukraine, except from a stronger position than it is currently in.

    If Putin can get this deal, he should take it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The sequence of events: the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something. Right at that point there would be full stop: nobody in his/her right mind would believe any US promise. So, it’s a dead end. Case closed.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    the US PROMISES to do certain things
     
    Promise = Treaty
    No treaty = No promise

    I kindly refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago #56.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something.
     
    That's the crux of the matter: the meaning of a 'promise' is in keeping it and Washington doesn't see it that way. They have a mercantile mentality where promise is a tool in a game of markets or whatever they verbally conjure up.

    I agree, this will be decided by brute force - US simply doesn't understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a 'promise' into a 'treaty' is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference. You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side...

    Replies: @A123

  62. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    The sequence of events: the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something. Right at that point there would be full stop: nobody in his/her right mind would believe any US promise. So, it’s a dead end. Case closed.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    the US PROMISES to do certain things

    Promise = Treaty
    No treaty = No promise

    I kindly refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago #56.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Promise = Treaty
     
    Sorry to point that out, but over the years the US government failed to abide by numerous promises it made in signed treaties. This started with various treaties it signed with Indian tribes, virtually all of which it broke. This tradition is alive and well to this day, in contrast to what’s written in the US Constitution. Agreement-capable governments keep their word. The US government does not.

    Replies: @A123

  63. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    They also live along the Volga in the heart of Russia. And are at least 10% of Moscow’s population. That’s a lot less than in Paris, but the contrast with Kiev or Warsaw is striking.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/7/22/despite-animosity-moscows-muslims-change-the-city

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.

    London, Rotterdam or Hamburg is core Europe.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.
     
    The boundary between Europe and Asia is in the eye of the beholder, totally arbitrary. The reason is purely geographic: Europe is not a continent, but a peninsula of Asia, just like India or Indo-China.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  64. @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    the US PROMISES to do certain things
     
    Promise = Treaty
    No treaty = No promise

    I kindly refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago #56.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Promise = Treaty

    Sorry to point that out, but over the years the US government failed to abide by numerous promises it made in signed treaties. This started with various treaties it signed with Indian tribes, virtually all of which it broke. This tradition is alive and well to this day, in contrast to what’s written in the US Constitution. Agreement-capable governments keep their word. The US government does not.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN

    Sorry to point this out but -- Going all the way back to American Indian tribal events, while historic, has zero relevance to the current day.

    Name some recent, Senate ratified, Treaties that were violated.

    The U.S. has legally withdrawn from treaties (such as INF), but that is different than breaking them.

    Please do not attempt painfully obvious and comical misdirection by raising WTO/GATT. Every signer nation has broken the trade follies. Therefore, what you would be stating is that NO country on the entire planet is agreement capable... Though there may be a grain of truth in that.

    PEACE 😇

  65. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Something like...

    "Cheerio chaps, the other day I was seated on the aluminium bleachers at my local raceway here in the Deep South, having just enjoyed a lovely bangers and mash, followed up by a Cadbury Wispa, one of my favourites! As I was having a butcher at the lovely cars it occurred to me how smashing Israel really is!

    Cor Blimey, that IslamoHomoFaschoSoros must be a barmy blighter to be opposing Israel and Donald Trump's stonking MAGA plans!"

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    you got it wrong, it’s “having a butchers…” (having a look). Butcher’s Hook…Imposter!

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  66. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.

    London, Rotterdam or Hamburg is core Europe.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.

    The boundary between Europe and Asia is in the eye of the beholder, totally arbitrary. The reason is purely geographic: Europe is not a continent, but a peninsula of Asia, just like India or Indo-China.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    The Urals are a reasonable boundary. Rivers could be used too.

  67. @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    One could easily point out that the Lower Volga is a river that represents a boundary with Asia.
     
    The boundary between Europe and Asia is in the eye of the beholder, totally arbitrary. The reason is purely geographic: Europe is not a continent, but a peninsula of Asia, just like India or Indo-China.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The Urals are a reasonable boundary. Rivers could be used too.

  68. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    Promise = Treaty
     
    Sorry to point that out, but over the years the US government failed to abide by numerous promises it made in signed treaties. This started with various treaties it signed with Indian tribes, virtually all of which it broke. This tradition is alive and well to this day, in contrast to what’s written in the US Constitution. Agreement-capable governments keep their word. The US government does not.

    Replies: @A123

    Sorry to point this out but — Going all the way back to American Indian tribal events, while historic, has zero relevance to the current day.

    Name some recent, Senate ratified, Treaties that were violated.

    The U.S. has legally withdrawn from treaties (such as INF), but that is different than breaking them.

    Please do not attempt painfully obvious and comical misdirection by raising WTO/GATT. Every signer nation has broken the trade follies. Therefore, what you would be stating is that NO country on the entire planet is agreement capable… Though there may be a grain of truth in that.

    PEACE 😇

  69. @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    This analysis would have made certain amount of sense if the US were agreement-capable.
     
    Remember, the U.S. is walking away from Ukraine. That die is already cast. It just has not stopped rolling yet. Therefore, any U.S. stance has rapidly diminishing impact. Russia will soon be getting much of what it wants with no effort or concession.

    The problem rests with the European Empire and its client the Kiev regime. They are not agreement-capable.

    A resolution will appear when Ukraine obtains new leadership not slavishly loyal to European Elites. Zelensky will flee to Europe. Hopefully in Fall possibly early Winter this year. The next administration will agree to an armistice with Russia, and work out a deal that makes sense for the two countries actually engaged in the fight.

    Remember, quite recently the US signed JCPOA, and then denounced it. So, the credibility of the US government is exactly zero.
     
    Two catastrophic problems with your assertion:

    -1- Sociopath Khamenei violated (and thus abrogated) JCPOA while Obama was still in office. All Trump did was recognize that there was no logical reason to stay in a deal that Iran had already abandoned.

    -2- The Constitution requires a "Senate Ratified Treaty" to bind future administrations. There is no obligation to keep an Executive arrangement that is inherently flawed.

    The U.S. is agreement capable if there is a formal Treaty. Can you imagine anything the Veggie-in-Chief proposes reaching this standard? I cannot. Therefore, to be precise, Not-The-President Biden is not agreement-capable, because the ⅔ of the Senate will not go along.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Remember, the U.S. is walking away from Ukraine.

    Yeah, sure. That’s why everyday that I watch the news, I see new weapons and funds earmarked for project Ukraine.

    Russia will soon be getting much of what it wants with no effort or concession.

    Dream again Appeaser Man. Nobody today knows how this war will end, and who will get what. As for ‘no effort and no concesion” we just have to see what a terrible mess Russia has already gotten itself involved in. Another year or more of this?…you’ve got to be kidding.

    Zelensky will flee to Europe. Hopefully in Fall possibly early Winter this year.

    You’ve been tooting this tune from the beginning of the war. It’s been almost a year already, and Zelensky is still firmly entrenched in Ukraine. Isn’t it time to come up with another one of your BS stories?;

    The next administration will agree to an armistice with Russia, and work out a deal that makes sense for the two countries actually engaged in the fight.

    This sounds almost a dumb as your previous assertions that “Ukraine is fighting an offensive war against Russia” Haven’t you heard, time and again from the US government spokespeople that it’s Ukraine’s call as to when this war will end?

    The Constitution requires a “Senate Ratified Treaty” to bind future administrations.

    No it doesn’t. The support of Ukraine can continue as it’s being done today. Only you know for sure that Trump will return to office and turn off all support for Ukraine. How’s his chances look if he’s personally convicted of tax fraud issues? The recent indictment of his lawyer and his organization that resulted in a 1.6 million penalty is only the first phase – it’s going to go much deeper and get much more devastating for Trump than just this.

  70. Haven’t you heard, time and again from the US government spokespeople that it’s Ukraine’s call as to when this war will end?

    I agree that Ukraine is in decent shape but the Biden regime is speaking utter bullshit. The only reason there hasn’t been a peace agreement yet is because Putin doesn’t want it. Once Putin lets it be known he’s willing to compromise, the US will be happy to deal and Zelensky will find himself removed from power if he gets in the way. In fact, he will probably find himself removed regardless as Russia will almost certainly set his ouster as a condition for ceasefire.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Greasy William

    How do you envision Zelensky being removed by the US govt when he "gets in the way"? Zelensky has a great relationship with US policymakers as evidenced by his recent visit to the US. Even when Trump was running the show, both men seemed to get along. Ukraine is utterly dependent on the US for support and if the US feels that it's time to end it all, Zelensky will most likely give that opinion great weight as he moves forward. It's fortunate for Zelensky and Ukraine that both countries policies towards Russia dovetail together very closely. It's also obvious that the major difference in policies center around the timing of more and better arms and ammunition.

  71. In fact, he will probably find himself removed regardless as Russia will almost certainly set his ouster as a condition for ceasefire.

    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration. Then it remains to be seen who can control the situation better – the USG or the Ukrainian people (and their friends which are numerous).

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as “territorial integrity” out of their vocabulary entirely going forward. They mean nothing then and should not longer be thrown around the way it was done the last 30 (or more) years.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration
     
    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
    2. I'm not talking about putting in a pro Russian guy. I'm talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn't Vladimir Zelensky. Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi. Putin is a vain man and he will demand Zelensky's ouster because of the image of triumph it will give Putin, even if there are no actual policy changes

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as “territorial integrity” out of their vocabulary entirely going forward.
     
    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it. The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary. WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930's.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it's technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness. When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight? I doubt it. Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn't calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia. US military recruitment is already down 25% and we aren't even at war. Simply nobody wants to fight for GloboHomo.

    This reminds me a little bit of the 2006 war between Israel in Lebanon where Israel had an insane manpower and technological advantage and unlimited US support and it still managed to lose the war because Israeli society had become too degenerate and gay to sustain meaningful casualties.

    Replies: @LatW, @AP

  72. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children's shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies

    Your newly founded concern about Eastern European nations such as Lithuania is quite strange. You did not care about the survival or the wellbeing of the Lithuanian nation back when they were invaded and shoved in trains to be deported, you didn’t care about them in the early 1990s, when they, fresh out of the USSR, had to compete with cheap Chinese labor globally, you didn’t even care about them for the last 30 years when they didn’t always have it easy at all times.

    But somehow now you have started to care. How selfless of you! Your concern is so touching.

    Not.

    • Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way
    @LatW

    I don't care about the wellbeing of Lithuania and I don't pretend to. Let's get that out of the way of this conversation because it is not relevant to the important point.

    The important point is there are "powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels."

    Do you agree or reject the contention?

    Replies: @LatW

  73. @Greasy William

    Haven’t you heard, time and again from the US government spokespeople that it’s Ukraine’s call as to when this war will end?
     
    I agree that Ukraine is in decent shape but the Biden regime is speaking utter bullshit. The only reason there hasn't been a peace agreement yet is because Putin doesn't want it. Once Putin lets it be known he's willing to compromise, the US will be happy to deal and Zelensky will find himself removed from power if he gets in the way. In fact, he will probably find himself removed regardless as Russia will almost certainly set his ouster as a condition for ceasefire.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    How do you envision Zelensky being removed by the US govt when he “gets in the way”? Zelensky has a great relationship with US policymakers as evidenced by his recent visit to the US. Even when Trump was running the show, both men seemed to get along. Ukraine is utterly dependent on the US for support and if the US feels that it’s time to end it all, Zelensky will most likely give that opinion great weight as he moves forward. It’s fortunate for Zelensky and Ukraine that both countries policies towards Russia dovetail together very closely. It’s also obvious that the major difference in policies center around the timing of more and better arms and ammunition.

  74. @LatW

    In fact, he will probably find himself removed regardless as Russia will almost certainly set his ouster as a condition for ceasefire.
     
    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration. Then it remains to be seen who can control the situation better - the USG or the Ukrainian people (and their friends which are numerous).

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as "territorial integrity" out of their vocabulary entirely going forward. They mean nothing then and should not longer be thrown around the way it was done the last 30 (or more) years.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration

    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
    2. I’m not talking about putting in a pro Russian guy. I’m talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn’t Vladimir Zelensky. Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi. Putin is a vain man and he will demand Zelensky’s ouster because of the image of triumph it will give Putin, even if there are no actual policy changes

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as “territorial integrity” out of their vocabulary entirely going forward.

    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it. The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary. WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930’s.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it’s technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness. When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight? I doubt it. Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn’t calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia. US military recruitment is already down 25% and we aren’t even at war. Simply nobody wants to fight for GloboHomo.

    This reminds me a little bit of the 2006 war between Israel in Lebanon where Israel had an insane manpower and technological advantage and unlimited US support and it still managed to lose the war because Israeli society had become too degenerate and gay to sustain meaningful casualties.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
     
    That is very simplistic. And not true, of course.

    I’m talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn’t Vladimir Zelensky.
     
    As I already said, any person who the Ukrainian people will accept would have to be like Zelensky (even if he were not charismatic). Russia must accept that Ukraine is gone. It's their own doing. When you start killing children, it's over.

    Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi.
     
    Oh, you don't like Zaluzhnyi? Very telling.
    Btw, he serves his people, no one else.

    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it.
     
    This term is a diplomatic tool that brings in real, tangible benefits. If the US is not willing to stick it out, the US should stop using it.

    The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary.
     
    If the West were to understand the urgency of this, they would be able to summon enough strength.

    large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated.
     
    You assume these portions are very large because you seem to be projecting your own mental state. In Europe this isn't always the case.

    When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight?

     

    Big mistake right there. You exposed your primitive bias by saying "nationalist yokels". Everyone is fighting, all ages, all classes, many who fight physically are middle class (even doctors, lawyers, business people are fighting, which is deeply tragic, even MPs). And, yes, they could hypothetically be killed, most of them. And, yes, the weight of it is carried by rugged nationalist men. But it is wrong to assume that only nationalist are fighting. And fighting goes beyond physical, it goes on on all fronts.

    Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn’t calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.
     
    Yes, he was. Maybe not upper middle class such as himself, but the Swedish military is quite representative of the middle class. The class differences there are less pronounced than in the US, do not project.

    So what would you have Biden do?
     
    See Zaluzhnyi's checklist. It's not even asked from the US, the allies will transfer a lot of it (if it then can be replaced).

    Send in US troops?
     
    Nobody has ever asked for this. Although, a few well trained clandestine troops from the allies wouldn't be bad. US troops are not needed. I don't even understand why you raise this, this has never been talked about at all.
    , @AP
    @Greasy William


    The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
     
    They don't, in the sense that Russia is attacking and they feel that they have no choice but to defend their homes and people.

    WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930’s.
     
    If by the West you mean the Anglo world + Germany, probably (excluding some pockets such as the American South, although those guys need to get fitter and healthier). This isn't true of Poland, the Baltics, probably not even Scandinavia despite its liberal ideology. Probably not true of Meds either.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it’s technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness
     
    Not really.

    When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight
     
    Ukraine is not the USA. In the Ukraine the middle class are just as nationalistic as the rest, if not more so. The most nationalistic part of Ukraine, Galicia, is also among the most educated. The "yokels" are bit softer in their nationalism (but not by much). One reason why Ukraine is outperforming Russia per person is that a lot of smart educated nationalistic Ukrainians are on the battlefield, improvising drones, etc.

    The bad thing abut this is that while Russia is wiping out its dregs, Ukraine is losing some of its best. It's not an even trade. 10 Russian convicts aren't worth a Ukrainian programmer.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia.
     
    America can inflict huge casualties while losing a minimal number of troops if it wants to. Some overweight kid munching on Fritos in front of a screen can remotely destroy many Russian troops. And it's a big country, even if only a small % of its people have what it takes to be tough soldiers on the ground that's enough to have first rate special forces.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  75. @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration
     
    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
    2. I'm not talking about putting in a pro Russian guy. I'm talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn't Vladimir Zelensky. Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi. Putin is a vain man and he will demand Zelensky's ouster because of the image of triumph it will give Putin, even if there are no actual policy changes

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as “territorial integrity” out of their vocabulary entirely going forward.
     
    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it. The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary. WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930's.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it's technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness. When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight? I doubt it. Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn't calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia. US military recruitment is already down 25% and we aren't even at war. Simply nobody wants to fight for GloboHomo.

    This reminds me a little bit of the 2006 war between Israel in Lebanon where Israel had an insane manpower and technological advantage and unlimited US support and it still managed to lose the war because Israeli society had become too degenerate and gay to sustain meaningful casualties.

    Replies: @LatW, @AP

    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time

    That is very simplistic. And not true, of course.

    I’m talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn’t Vladimir Zelensky.

    As I already said, any person who the Ukrainian people will accept would have to be like Zelensky (even if he were not charismatic). Russia must accept that Ukraine is gone. It’s their own doing. When you start killing children, it’s over.

    Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi.

    Oh, you don’t like Zaluzhnyi? Very telling.
    Btw, he serves his people, no one else.

    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it.

    This term is a diplomatic tool that brings in real, tangible benefits. If the US is not willing to stick it out, the US should stop using it.

    The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary.

    If the West were to understand the urgency of this, they would be able to summon enough strength.

    large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated.

    You assume these portions are very large because you seem to be projecting your own mental state. In Europe this isn’t always the case.

    When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight?

    Big mistake right there. You exposed your primitive bias by saying “nationalist yokels”. Everyone is fighting, all ages, all classes, many who fight physically are middle class (even doctors, lawyers, business people are fighting, which is deeply tragic, even MPs). And, yes, they could hypothetically be killed, most of them. And, yes, the weight of it is carried by rugged nationalist men. But it is wrong to assume that only nationalist are fighting. And fighting goes beyond physical, it goes on on all fronts.

    Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn’t calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.

    Yes, he was. Maybe not upper middle class such as himself, but the Swedish military is quite representative of the middle class. The class differences there are less pronounced than in the US, do not project.

    So what would you have Biden do?

    See Zaluzhnyi’s checklist. It’s not even asked from the US, the allies will transfer a lot of it (if it then can be replaced).

    Send in US troops?

    Nobody has ever asked for this. Although, a few well trained clandestine troops from the allies wouldn’t be bad. US troops are not needed. I don’t even understand why you raise this, this has never been talked about at all.

  76. Oh, you don’t like Zaluzhnyi? Very telling.
    Btw, he serves his people, no one else.

    What do you mean by this?

    I don’t know anything about Zaluzhnyi. I don’t even really dislike Zelensky. I think he’s a corrupt, delusional, weird, arrogant and vainglorious cokehead midget but he doesn’t really bother me. Given his heritage, he’s likely a 3rd or 4th cousin of mine so I don’t have anything personal against him, I just hate the type of Americans who worship him.

    But Vladimir Putin does in fact have something personal against Zelensky. Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante. The minimum he could possibly accept is formal commitment that Ukraine not join the EU or NATO, a land bridge to Crimea and Zelensky out of power.

    But it is wrong to assume that only nationalist are fighting. And fighting goes beyond physical, it goes on on all fronts.

    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this “all hands on deck effort” if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight. The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has. I can confidently say the same for Canada as well. It is certainly possible, however, that the other Western countries aren’t yet that far gone, although I’d certainly like to believe that they are. Europeans have a much different mentality than do Americans so sometimes it can be hard to understand them.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    What do you mean by this?
     
    That I doubt he will give up, at least not easily. Earlier when Milley expressed doubts, he reached out to him proactively. He has a lot of support from the population and a lot of respect within the military.

    I just hate the type of Americans who worship him
     
    That's very subjective and might be affecting your outlook. For Americans who do support Ukraine (which is a lot), it's not just about Zelensky's persona, it's far broader than that.

    Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante

     

    There are a few things he could sell to the population. The Kremlin propagandists are very talented that way. Unless it's really bad and they lose too much.

    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this “all hands on deck effort” if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight.

     

    It's hard to know this until there is a real invasion. Also, it might make a difference who invades.

    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has.
     
    The Ukrainians are raised differently, they may be more robust. But, yea, what Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @LatW
    @Greasy William


    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception)
     
    By the way, how are you "far right"? I thought you were Jewish.

    Replies: @A123

  77. @Greasy William

    Oh, you don’t like Zaluzhnyi? Very telling.
    Btw, he serves his people, no one else.
     
    What do you mean by this?

    I don't know anything about Zaluzhnyi. I don't even really dislike Zelensky. I think he's a corrupt, delusional, weird, arrogant and vainglorious cokehead midget but he doesn't really bother me. Given his heritage, he's likely a 3rd or 4th cousin of mine so I don't have anything personal against him, I just hate the type of Americans who worship him.

    But Vladimir Putin does in fact have something personal against Zelensky. Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante. The minimum he could possibly accept is formal commitment that Ukraine not join the EU or NATO, a land bridge to Crimea and Zelensky out of power.


    But it is wrong to assume that only nationalist are fighting. And fighting goes beyond physical, it goes on on all fronts.
     
    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this "all hands on deck effort" if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight. The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has. I can confidently say the same for Canada as well. It is certainly possible, however, that the other Western countries aren't yet that far gone, although I'd certainly like to believe that they are. Europeans have a much different mentality than do Americans so sometimes it can be hard to understand them.

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW

    What do you mean by this?

    That I doubt he will give up, at least not easily. Earlier when Milley expressed doubts, he reached out to him proactively. He has a lot of support from the population and a lot of respect within the military.

    I just hate the type of Americans who worship him

    That’s very subjective and might be affecting your outlook. For Americans who do support Ukraine (which is a lot), it’s not just about Zelensky’s persona, it’s far broader than that.

    Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante

    There are a few things he could sell to the population. The Kremlin propagandists are very talented that way. Unless it’s really bad and they lose too much.

    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this “all hands on deck effort” if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight.

    It’s hard to know this until there is a real invasion. Also, it might make a difference who invades.

    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has.

    The Ukrainians are raised differently, they may be more robust. But, yea, what Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW


    Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.
     
    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches - he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: "....I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other...but we are tough, I will hold my ground..."

    A mix of bravado, professionalism and resignation. These guys have sh..ty lives, don't expect much, understand the war much better than BBC...and they will often die because they accept it as their fate.

    You are right, they 'take it', but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about. Zelko&Co. are playing with fire, the bloody fury that occasionally erupts in that region will not be kind to anyone.

    You are too ideological to see the war for the human tragedy it basically is. In a tragedy everyone seeks justice and honor at any price, and at the end everybody is dead...this may turn out that way.

    Replies: @LatW

  78. @Greasy William

    Oh, you don’t like Zaluzhnyi? Very telling.
    Btw, he serves his people, no one else.
     
    What do you mean by this?

    I don't know anything about Zaluzhnyi. I don't even really dislike Zelensky. I think he's a corrupt, delusional, weird, arrogant and vainglorious cokehead midget but he doesn't really bother me. Given his heritage, he's likely a 3rd or 4th cousin of mine so I don't have anything personal against him, I just hate the type of Americans who worship him.

    But Vladimir Putin does in fact have something personal against Zelensky. Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante. The minimum he could possibly accept is formal commitment that Ukraine not join the EU or NATO, a land bridge to Crimea and Zelensky out of power.


    But it is wrong to assume that only nationalist are fighting. And fighting goes beyond physical, it goes on on all fronts.
     
    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this "all hands on deck effort" if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight. The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has. I can confidently say the same for Canada as well. It is certainly possible, however, that the other Western countries aren't yet that far gone, although I'd certainly like to believe that they are. Europeans have a much different mentality than do Americans so sometimes it can be hard to understand them.

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW

    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception)

    By the way, how are you “far right”? I thought you were Jewish.

    • Replies: @A123
    @LatW

    Real Jews are Republicans [from 2021]: (1)


    Poll: Orthodox Jews Are Overwhelmingly Republican and Growing in Number

    According to a new poll from the Pew Research Center, while the majority of Jews identify as Democrat, three out of four Orthodox Jews identify as Republican

    Compared with older Jews, young Jews are increasingly becoming more Orthodox. Only three percent of Jews over 65 identify as Orthodox, while 17 percent of Jews between the ages of 18 and 29 claim to be Orthodox. While some Jews become more religious on their own, birthrate also is a large factor. Pew explains, “Orthodox Jewish adults report having an average of 3.3 children, while non-Orthodox Jews have an average of 1.4 children.”
     
    TFR strikes again.

    The growing anti-Semitism of the SJW Muslim DNC is accelerating this trend. Both Jews and Christians are repulsed by the fact that open hate freaks, like Ilhan Omar, are being elevated by the Democrat party.

    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status. Other main branches of Judaism are also becoming more Purple, though they are not yet ready for Red realignment.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2021/05/11/poll-orthodox-jews-overwhelmingly-republican-growing-number/

    Replies: @LatW

  79. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    The sequence of events: the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something. Right at that point there would be full stop: nobody in his/her right mind would believe any US promise. So, it’s a dead end. Case closed.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    …the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something.

    That’s the crux of the matter: the meaning of a ‘promise‘ is in keeping it and Washington doesn’t see it that way. They have a mercantile mentality where promise is a tool in a game of markets or whatever they verbally conjure up.

    I agree, this will be decided by brute force – US simply doesn’t understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a ‘promise‘ into a ‘treaty‘ is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference. You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side…

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    US simply doesn’t understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a ‘promise‘ into a ‘treaty‘ is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference.
     
    Care to back that up?
    Or, are you just bloviating?

    Same challenge to you as offered to AnonfromTN

    Name some *recent*, Senate ratified, Treaties that were violated.
    ...
    Please do not attempt painfully obvious and comical misdirection by raising WTO/GATT. Every signer nation has broken the trade follies. Therefore, what you would be stating is that NO country on the entire planet is agreement capable… Though there may be a grain of truth in that.


    Trying to use the issues with Colorado River water will also be seen as comical misdirection. The science underlying the legal framework for water use was based on bad science.

    You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side
     
    I concur, but again point out that your observation is misdirected.

    The EU Empire, has no honor and carries a deep grudge rooted in inferiority. They are still deploying treachery against the UK despite BREXIT being successfully passed almost a decade ago. Trickery is an expected core EU trait.

    As long as Kiev is an EU puppet, negotiation capable Putin has no one to work with. Eventually Zelensky will go. Ukraine will obtain leadership not contaminated by the EU. After that, an armistice and ultimately a peace deal are possible.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Beckow

  80. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    What do you mean by this?
     
    That I doubt he will give up, at least not easily. Earlier when Milley expressed doubts, he reached out to him proactively. He has a lot of support from the population and a lot of respect within the military.

    I just hate the type of Americans who worship him
     
    That's very subjective and might be affecting your outlook. For Americans who do support Ukraine (which is a lot), it's not just about Zelensky's persona, it's far broader than that.

    Putin needs to be able to show at least something for this war beyond just the status quo ante

     

    There are a few things he could sell to the population. The Kremlin propagandists are very talented that way. Unless it's really bad and they lose too much.

    I guess the main point for me is that you would not see this “all hands on deck effort” if it were the US that had been invaded. A huge portion of Americans would have enthusiastically collaborated with the invaders and the overwhelming majority of Americans would have refused to fight.

     

    It's hard to know this until there is a real invasion. Also, it might make a difference who invades.

    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception) have so much difficulty processing the effectiveness of the Ukrainian effort is because we know that the US would have collapsed in weeks if it had been subject to what Ukraine has.
     
    The Ukrainians are raised differently, they may be more robust. But, yea, what Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.

    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches – he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: “….I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other…but we are tough, I will hold my ground…

    A mix of bravado, professionalism and resignation. These guys have sh..ty lives, don’t expect much, understand the war much better than BBC…and they will often die because they accept it as their fate.

    You are right, they ‘take it’, but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about. Zelko&Co. are playing with fire, the bloody fury that occasionally erupts in that region will not be kind to anyone.

    You are too ideological to see the war for the human tragedy it basically is. In a tragedy everyone seeks justice and honor at any price, and at the end everybody is dead…this may turn out that way.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Beckow


    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches – he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: “….I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other…but we are tough, I will hold my ground…”
     
    Older "Afghan" guys are that way, they are a bit more sentimental, they are very decent, in Russia some "Afghan" group actually came out against the war. The younger guys mostly don't have those types of sentiments. They are more directly focused on fighting for their homeland.

    Btw, everyone was basically forced to go to Afghanistan. All nationalities, it wasn't a choice. So it wasn't some common ideological battle there, if the regular Ukrainian soldiers had had a choice, they wouldn't have gone there.


    These guys have sh..ty lives
     
    I wouldn't say that, there is a lot of good in their lives, they have more freedom and their women are prettier and more supplicating. They are loved. So not everything is that bad for them.

    You are right, they ‘take it’, but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about.
     
    I have never denied this. The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc).

    the war for the human tragedy it basically is
     
    These kinds of things happen when a country is called "fake and gay", when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn't have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees - there is a responsibility there, too.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

  81. @Beckow
    @LatW


    Ukrainians have been subjected to is something that most humans would not be able to take.
     
    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches - he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: "....I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other...but we are tough, I will hold my ground..."

    A mix of bravado, professionalism and resignation. These guys have sh..ty lives, don't expect much, understand the war much better than BBC...and they will often die because they accept it as their fate.

    You are right, they 'take it', but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about. Zelko&Co. are playing with fire, the bloody fury that occasionally erupts in that region will not be kind to anyone.

    You are too ideological to see the war for the human tragedy it basically is. In a tragedy everyone seeks justice and honor at any price, and at the end everybody is dead...this may turn out that way.

    Replies: @LatW

    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches – he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: “….I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other…but we are tough, I will hold my ground…”

    Older “Afghan” guys are that way, they are a bit more sentimental, they are very decent, in Russia some “Afghan” group actually came out against the war. The younger guys mostly don’t have those types of sentiments. They are more directly focused on fighting for their homeland.

    Btw, everyone was basically forced to go to Afghanistan. All nationalities, it wasn’t a choice. So it wasn’t some common ideological battle there, if the regular Ukrainian soldiers had had a choice, they wouldn’t have gone there.

    These guys have sh..ty lives

    I wouldn’t say that, there is a lot of good in their lives, they have more freedom and their women are prettier and more supplicating. They are loved. So not everything is that bad for them.

    You are right, they ‘take it’, but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about.

    I have never denied this. The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc).

    the war for the human tragedy it basically is

    These kinds of things happen when a country is called “fake and gay”, when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn’t have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees – there is a responsibility there, too.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...when a country is called “fake and gay”, when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn’t have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees
     
    You pick causes that fit your preconceptions. The ones you list are not reasons for the war - they are similar to some on the Russian side focusing on "Bandera", renaming streets,
    or Zelko playing a piano with his... distractions. One can say that you are picking small pebbles because you can't pick a big rock :)...

    The reasons for the war are Nato expansion and Russian minority rights. Security guarantees is a valid point - but security is by definition mutual. Inviting Nato when you know that Nato's main purpose is to fight Russia - maybe even defeat Russia - doesn't advance anyone's security. It inevitably led to the war. But it is a chicken-and-egg...


    If the (Kiev) administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military
     
    That's not my sense at all. Military is varied, but a large part of it is not eager to fight and die needlessly, watch the POWs videos. The most militant Ukies seem to be in Kev and further West - some found their way to Unz. There is nothing people about to die hate more than overly aggressive civilians egging them on from a safe distance...

    I strongly doubt the younger Ukies who are dying are any more enamored of the war, most are there because they had no choice. Your bubbling hatred for Russia is killing them, think about it...feeding a tragedy from far away is a rather evil thing. At least I want the killing to stop and reason to prevail. The outcome - some sort of Russia's victory - is inevitable, the only way to stop it is a coup in Russia or a nuclear war; the first one is very unlikely and can backfire. Nukes? How much fun would that be for people living in EE?

    You have ideological blinders on, seeing only narratives that fit what you want to happen. It is not going to play out that way. Then you will scuttle away seething with rage...

    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc...soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for "freedom"? This is my objection: you never seem to acknowledge what Nato did. You don't get to walk away from the wars done by your side. That is not serious.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    I saw what you did there!

    Claiming that if the Ukie administration concedes any territory to Russia the average soldiers will march on Kiev...

    "The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc)."

    Nothing cures this formidability like fighting in a regular military for a couple of campaign seasons. Surviving contact with the enemy and your own officers is a cure all. Most veterans soldiers in all nations get chucked on the ash heap. "Volunteers" which is a cute term of art for Fanatical Nationalists will prove even more disposable and will be seen as a threat by any pragmatic government.

  82. @LatW
    @Beckow


    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches – he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: “….I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other…but we are tough, I will hold my ground…”
     
    Older "Afghan" guys are that way, they are a bit more sentimental, they are very decent, in Russia some "Afghan" group actually came out against the war. The younger guys mostly don't have those types of sentiments. They are more directly focused on fighting for their homeland.

    Btw, everyone was basically forced to go to Afghanistan. All nationalities, it wasn't a choice. So it wasn't some common ideological battle there, if the regular Ukrainian soldiers had had a choice, they wouldn't have gone there.


    These guys have sh..ty lives
     
    I wouldn't say that, there is a lot of good in their lives, they have more freedom and their women are prettier and more supplicating. They are loved. So not everything is that bad for them.

    You are right, they ‘take it’, but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about.
     
    I have never denied this. The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc).

    the war for the human tragedy it basically is
     
    These kinds of things happen when a country is called "fake and gay", when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn't have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees - there is a responsibility there, too.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

    …when a country is called “fake and gay”, when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn’t have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees

    You pick causes that fit your preconceptions. The ones you list are not reasons for the war – they are similar to some on the Russian side focusing on “Bandera“, renaming streets,
    or Zelko playing a piano with his… distractions. One can say that you are picking small pebbles because you can’t pick a big rock :)…

    The reasons for the war are Nato expansion and Russian minority rights. Security guarantees is a valid point – but security is by definition mutual. Inviting Nato when you know that Nato’s main purpose is to fight Russia – maybe even defeat Russia – doesn’t advance anyone’s security. It inevitably led to the war. But it is a chicken-and-egg…

    If the (Kiev) administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military

    That’s not my sense at all. Military is varied, but a large part of it is not eager to fight and die needlessly, watch the POWs videos. The most militant Ukies seem to be in Kev and further West – some found their way to Unz. There is nothing people about to die hate more than overly aggressive civilians egging them on from a safe distance…

    I strongly doubt the younger Ukies who are dying are any more enamored of the war, most are there because they had no choice. Your bubbling hatred for Russia is killing them, think about it…feeding a tragedy from far away is a rather evil thing. At least I want the killing to stop and reason to prevail. The outcome – some sort of Russia’s victory – is inevitable, the only way to stop it is a coup in Russia or a nuclear war; the first one is very unlikely and can backfire. Nukes? How much fun would that be for people living in EE?

    You have ideological blinders on, seeing only narratives that fit what you want to happen. It is not going to play out that way. Then you will scuttle away seething with rage…

    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc…soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for “freedom”? This is my objection: you never seem to acknowledge what Nato did. You don’t get to walk away from the wars done by your side. That is not serious.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Beckow


    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc…soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for “freedom”?
     
    How can you even compare these two things? The Soviet men were in some cases not even told where they were going! There was no choice whatsoever. People were taken from far away republics that had nothing to do with that region at all. They almost took my dad who was totally against the Soviet imperialism. When they came home, they were butthurt, in Russia some of them went to work for racketeers.

    All those who went to the more recent Afghan war were all professional soldiers, who had made it their aspiration and who were in fact lining up to go there (because it paid well and could give you experience - that it's a stupid war is beside the point, most of them are)! You are either too young to know this or you are out to lunch.

    Replies: @Beckow

  83. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @AP

    We can stick to hard figures rather than perceptions of transsexual content prevalence in children's shows. America was 57% white in 2022, dropping from almost 90% in 1950. I think it will be 40% in 2050. Western Europe is clearly following the same path. Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let’s consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That’s 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That’s a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples’ lands, America’s included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man’s burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    It's a very interesting question, Ivashka, what the sources of "self-respect" are - and the sources of optimism and the will to live.

    I have been pondering it lately.

    I have no definitive answer, but I feel like I've isolated a few key points.

    Self respect seems to be connected in a very heavy and significant way to morality - in other words, to the feeling that we are good. And this feeling comes only, it seems, from the traditional source of altruism, and benevolence - on some level and of some kind.

    I have just returned from spending some time in Thailand, Cambodia, and Japan, and while by no means pictures of good spiritual health, and in many ways heavily corrupted by modernity and getting worse, they seem to have a residual self respect and optimism lacking from the West (although their birth rates are similarly abysmal). And I am including Slavdom as a sort of adjunct of the Western empire.

    And these countries have retained official ideologies of altruism and benevolence - of course, there is much cheating and bad behavior, and evil people exist everywhere, but there remains in public life a certain amount of consideration for others and politeness, a certain amount of palpable benevolence seems to saturate the public space, and publicly at least, the official ideology remains traditional notions of altruism etc.

    At its most basic and superficial, it is at least a commitment to make everyone feel good and respected, to make public life smooth and gracious, to avoid giving offense, to avoid confrontation - while we in the West think these things trivial and superficial, I am beginning to think they may actually be of deep moral import. In Japan it is almost an obligation to smile and make others feel good - returning to NYC, how chill the air blew suddenly!

    And moreover, the Gods are everywhere, and are actively worshipped - but what is God but the principle of a higher connection to everything else?

    Now as we all know, official ideology in the West is of course Darwinism, survival of the fittest, capitalism, individualism - i.e, our official ideology repudiates benevolence and altruism quite explicitly.

    As Keynes said of capitalism, but might be a summation of the entire modern Western civilization - "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." :)

    On the plane home, flying the Japanese airline ANA and bathed in the soft womb like atmosphere of a culture devoted to making everyone feel good and respected, I watched the first episode of the new HBO series the White Lotus - and how hideous, and sordid, and morally squalid it all was! What a contrast! Every character seemed a monster of cruelty, selfishness, cold indifference, given to petty squabbles.

    Now of course there are complications to this picture - on a certain level, Asia is notoriously indifferent to suffering in a way that countries formed by a Christian sensibility have often criticized. And there are many defects in Asian moral culture.

    And the West does have a sort of official ideology of benevolence and altruism - Woke. But in reality, how motivated by ressentiment and a desire for revenge Woke is, and how remote from true benevolence and altruism. At best, it represents an aching desire for goodness, but how widely it misses the mark.

    And yet, even the Woke have more self respect and spiritual power than their right wing opponents, as seen by their infinitely greater cultural and economic power - even a distant, corrupted caricature of altruism gives more power than the frankly avowed selfishness of the Right!

    And then I think of the people I've emerged from, and left behind - Jews. I am deeply critical of so much in Jewish life, and think it is a very sick culture in many ways - the extreme competitiveness, the insane ambition based on fragile egos, the obsession with money and power, the unhealthy desire for personal superiority and distinction, but I must confess that there is a residual altruism and benevolence that complicates the picture and is, I think, the ultimate source of Jewish self respect. There is a moral passion to Jewish life, that however corrupted, and corrupted it is, is absent from the "objective, scientific" life of White people - or worse, the "Darwinistic" life of White people - except among the Woke, who interpenetrate with Jews.

    So what can we learn from all this?

    I note that you've often said here before that a people that abandons it's Gods loses the sources of it's power and self respect, and I am beginning to think you are right.

    But what does it mean to abandon ones God? Doesn't it just mean to abandon ones higher connection to others, and in a sense, everything else? Doesn't it mean to abandon altruism and benevolence - the sense that we are in a higher sense connected to all other human beings and really the whole rest of creation?

    Of course, I realize that you meant it on the level of nation - as I've criticized you for recently :) - but surely that's the same principle in limited form.

    And in the end, perhaps the contrast between nationalism and universalism is not as deep as is supposed - perhaps one can be rooted in ones collective, but from that solid base reach out to the universe - and the best kind of nationalism is one that reaches towards universalism without abandoning its roots.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?
     
    You see the glass as half empty. The guys on the top think they are ubers and there is no chance these filthy scum could ever get it together to take them out. They are not afraid of any number of Turks, Arabs, Africans and Chinese. They are cooking ethnic selective biological warfare weapons right now and on paper and in powerpoints they don't have any unmanageable problem at all. I saw a leaked slide pack. The last one said:

    Fuck around and find out
    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man’s burden exhaustion?
     

    I think Louis de Bonald once wrote something like 'The proclamation of the Rights of Man was a signal of desolation and death'.

    This came from the idea that the philosophy behind it seriously misunderstood human nature and implementing it would bring about social collapse. Given the demographic situation you describe, it doesn't seem impossible that he will be proved right. Though it is pretty surprising, especially if you grew up in the 'End of History' era.

    It might be fitting that Bonald was one of the leading members of what they used to call the 'theological school' of political science, when you look at the rise of the Muslim nations. Generally Islam seems to have been able to resist the principles of 1789 better than any European religion or ideology.


    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.
     
    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    I don't form my politics around widespread genetic engineering because it makes things so different that I don't see the point in trying, however what does genetic descendant even mean once everyone is genetic engineering?

    What is "continuity" in this context, that feeling many on here want?

    Other interesting points:

    Grimes recently added that Nazis would be happy with space travel as they could be free to be Nazis. This is another big potential, though less likely change.

    And as for AI, if it becomes thinking and more intelligent than us, what is our future?

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let’s consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That’s 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav
     
    Yes, and even more reason for Ukraine to separate itself completely from Eurasia-Russia (Asiopa) and join with Poland and the Baltic Republics. Ideally Belarus can also be saved. Russia will not be broken up (that is an unrealistic pipe dream), it will be some sort of Eurasian despotism, but if it could in an ideal world Novgorod and Pskov and other European parts would also join. Alas, the Muscovites had snuffed out the nascent Novgorod nation long ago.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other
     
    Well, Putin chose to invade Ukraine to separate it from Poland and keep it in Eurasia, as a playground for his Chechens and Buryats alongside his Russian servants. He refused to leave us alone.
  84. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Grahamsno(G64)


    At this point they should decide on a Finland Gen Man.. approach and make some kind of shitty deal with Russia. It will be ugly and it’s pointless to sacrifice the most precious thing in the cosmos
     
    Russia is not agreement capable as Putin is unable even to define his war aims. His incentive is merely to continue the war for as long as possible, as he is done for as soon as the music stops.

    Drunken, Rapist, bumbling, stumbling Ivan always finally gets his act together and then they are lethal totally… make some kind of deal they’re getting better all the time and when they break through the second defend line finally, all the east of the River will be lost.
     
    Russia failed in Afghanistan, failed against the Japanese and failed into catatsrophe in WW1. It took 6 months for them to take Soledar, while they lost Kherson, and much else besides. Soledar is basically a village. They are as likely to take Kharkhiv as Ukraine is to take Moscow.

    I am an Indian and we have a soft spot for Russia they helped us in the infancy of our modern Republic, it’s not just the defence equipment overwhelmingly Russian but something deeper.
     
    India's performance post-independence has been embarrassing. No wonder you feel an affinity with Russia. Both are hugely cultured places that have a tendency to fail to learn from their mistakes because they continually and resentfully blame others. This observation comes from a place of love. Take it as you will. I'm optimistic on the future of India as it has many of the best and brightest in the world, but the third world ideology and its ennervating narratives do you no practical favours. Nevermind how extremely condescending it implicitly treats Indians as.

    Replies: @Grahamsno(G64), @Ivashka the fool

    Laxa, welcome back !

    🙂

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Ivashka the fool

    yep

    , @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool

    shhh, si on ne commence pas avec la psychanalyse fatigant, il ne faut pa de la trahir, a mon avis.

  85. @Grahamsno(G64)
    I am an atheist hindu I give a rat's ass about Narendra Modi.

    So for sakes I want Russians to win we hope they break Bakhmut

    Do you seriously think I've read the Rig Veda fuck off we're friends with the Russians and that's what we are telling you despite our best minds going to the west there is something in our hearts that make us support RUSSIA

    I dont know but we will support MOTHER RUSSIA and fuck whatever may come

    It's deep I don't know why

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    It’s because Hindu = Wend(u)

    Not kidding friend…

    🙂

  86. @Beckow
    @AnonfromTN


    ...the US PROMISES to do certain things if the RF does something.
     
    That's the crux of the matter: the meaning of a 'promise' is in keeping it and Washington doesn't see it that way. They have a mercantile mentality where promise is a tool in a game of markets or whatever they verbally conjure up.

    I agree, this will be decided by brute force - US simply doesn't understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a 'promise' into a 'treaty' is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference. You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side...

    Replies: @A123

    US simply doesn’t understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a ‘promise‘ into a ‘treaty‘ is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference.

    Care to back that up?
    Or, are you just bloviating?

    Same challenge to you as offered to AnonfromTN

    Name some *recent*, Senate ratified, Treaties that were violated.

    Please do not attempt painfully obvious and comical misdirection by raising WTO/GATT. Every signer nation has broken the trade follies. Therefore, what you would be stating is that NO country on the entire planet is agreement capable… Though there may be a grain of truth in that.

    Trying to use the issues with Colorado River water will also be seen as comical misdirection. The science underlying the legal framework for water use was based on bad science.

    You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side

    I concur, but again point out that your observation is misdirected.

    The EU Empire, has no honor and carries a deep grudge rooted in inferiority. They are still deploying treachery against the UK despite BREXIT being successfully passed almost a decade ago. Trickery is an expected core EU trait.

    As long as Kiev is an EU puppet, negotiation capable Putin has no one to work with. Eventually Zelensky will go. Ukraine will obtain leadership not contaminated by the EU. After that, an armistice and ultimately a peace deal are possible.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123

    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises - US has openly said that its 'promises' are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia's borders.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally): ABM treaty, the Iran nuclear agreement, and a number of other disarmament treaties. It broke UN treaty that requires that UN headquarters in N York be freely accessible to all member states. Each time Washington uses some cacamonie 'justification' that amount to: 'if we don't like a treaty anymore, we will simply not obey it, or declare that we are leaving it'.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say "we can do it, shut up'.

    Your indignation is misplaced. The reality is that there is no point in negotiating with US without having the ability on the ground to enforce the agreement. I suspect that is what Russia is doing now - creating facts on the ground that may be eventually signed off by others but without the ability to change anything. That is what Russia means by saying that US-Nato are 'not agreement capable'.

    Replies: @A123

  87. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    The main reason that far right Americans (and I myself am no exception)
     
    By the way, how are you "far right"? I thought you were Jewish.

    Replies: @A123

    Real Jews are Republicans [from 2021]: (1)

    Poll: Orthodox Jews Are Overwhelmingly Republican and Growing in Number

    According to a new poll from the Pew Research Center, while the majority of Jews identify as Democrat, three out of four Orthodox Jews identify as Republican

    Compared with older Jews, young Jews are increasingly becoming more Orthodox. Only three percent of Jews over 65 identify as Orthodox, while 17 percent of Jews between the ages of 18 and 29 claim to be Orthodox. While some Jews become more religious on their own, birthrate also is a large factor. Pew explains, “Orthodox Jewish adults report having an average of 3.3 children, while non-Orthodox Jews have an average of 1.4 children.”

    TFR strikes again.

    The growing anti-Semitism of the SJW Muslim DNC is accelerating this trend. Both Jews and Christians are repulsed by the fact that open hate freaks, like Ilhan Omar, are being elevated by the Democrat party.

    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status. Other main branches of Judaism are also becoming more Purple, though they are not yet ready for Red realignment.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2021/05/11/poll-orthodox-jews-overwhelmingly-republican-growing-number/

    • Replies: @LatW
    @A123


    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status.
     
    I wasn't talking about fundamentalist Orthodox Jewish. Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger (in the sense that we are talking about here). It looks like the poster Greasy William is trying to pretend to be in the group of far right Gentiles, when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  88. @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    It’s a very interesting question, Ivashka, what the sources of “self-respect” are – and the sources of optimism and the will to live.

    I have been pondering it lately.

    I have no definitive answer, but I feel like I’ve isolated a few key points.

    Self respect seems to be connected in a very heavy and significant way to morality – in other words, to the feeling that we are good. And this feeling comes only, it seems, from the traditional source of altruism, and benevolence – on some level and of some kind.

    I have just returned from spending some time in Thailand, Cambodia, and Japan, and while by no means pictures of good spiritual health, and in many ways heavily corrupted by modernity and getting worse, they seem to have a residual self respect and optimism lacking from the West (although their birth rates are similarly abysmal). And I am including Slavdom as a sort of adjunct of the Western empire.

    And these countries have retained official ideologies of altruism and benevolence – of course, there is much cheating and bad behavior, and evil people exist everywhere, but there remains in public life a certain amount of consideration for others and politeness, a certain amount of palpable benevolence seems to saturate the public space, and publicly at least, the official ideology remains traditional notions of altruism etc.

    At its most basic and superficial, it is at least a commitment to make everyone feel good and respected, to make public life smooth and gracious, to avoid giving offense, to avoid confrontation – while we in the West think these things trivial and superficial, I am beginning to think they may actually be of deep moral import. In Japan it is almost an obligation to smile and make others feel good – returning to NYC, how chill the air blew suddenly!

    And moreover, the Gods are everywhere, and are actively worshipped – but what is God but the principle of a higher connection to everything else?

    Now as we all know, official ideology in the West is of course Darwinism, survival of the fittest, capitalism, individualism – i.e, our official ideology repudiates benevolence and altruism quite explicitly.

    As Keynes said of capitalism, but might be a summation of the entire modern Western civilization – “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” 🙂

    On the plane home, flying the Japanese airline ANA and bathed in the soft womb like atmosphere of a culture devoted to making everyone feel good and respected, I watched the first episode of the new HBO series the White Lotus – and how hideous, and sordid, and morally squalid it all was! What a contrast! Every character seemed a monster of cruelty, selfishness, cold indifference, given to petty squabbles.

    Now of course there are complications to this picture – on a certain level, Asia is notoriously indifferent to suffering in a way that countries formed by a Christian sensibility have often criticized. And there are many defects in Asian moral culture.

    And the West does have a sort of official ideology of benevolence and altruism – Woke. But in reality, how motivated by ressentiment and a desire for revenge Woke is, and how remote from true benevolence and altruism. At best, it represents an aching desire for goodness, but how widely it misses the mark.

    And yet, even the Woke have more self respect and spiritual power than their right wing opponents, as seen by their infinitely greater cultural and economic power – even a distant, corrupted caricature of altruism gives more power than the frankly avowed selfishness of the Right!

    And then I think of the people I’ve emerged from, and left behind – Jews. I am deeply critical of so much in Jewish life, and think it is a very sick culture in many ways – the extreme competitiveness, the insane ambition based on fragile egos, the obsession with money and power, the unhealthy desire for personal superiority and distinction, but I must confess that there is a residual altruism and benevolence that complicates the picture and is, I think, the ultimate source of Jewish self respect. There is a moral passion to Jewish life, that however corrupted, and corrupted it is, is absent from the “objective, scientific” life of White people – or worse, the “Darwinistic” life of White people – except among the Woke, who interpenetrate with Jews.

    So what can we learn from all this?

    I note that you’ve often said here before that a people that abandons it’s Gods loses the sources of it’s power and self respect, and I am beginning to think you are right.

    But what does it mean to abandon ones God? Doesn’t it just mean to abandon ones higher connection to others, and in a sense, everything else? Doesn’t it mean to abandon altruism and benevolence – the sense that we are in a higher sense connected to all other human beings and really the whole rest of creation?

    Of course, I realize that you meant it on the level of nation – as I’ve criticized you for recently 🙂 – but surely that’s the same principle in limited form.

    And in the end, perhaps the contrast between nationalism and universalism is not as deep as is supposed – perhaps one can be rooted in ones collective, but from that solid base reach out to the universe – and the best kind of nationalism is one that reaches towards universalism without abandoning its roots.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I think that part of the vestigial culture in places like E. Asia is that the industrial revolution was less of a clean break than in the West. Of course, China intentionally created a similar cultural trauma in the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward, but in many other countries the industrial change happened in a way that displaced, but didn't entirely wipe away traditional cultural norms.

    The West was also consumed by the horror of the First World War, which serves in my mind as the most definite inflection point which caused the West to stop believing in itself. WW1 and the aftermath fundamentally restructured Euro society and wiped away the main vestiges of a pre-industrial society. America didn't undergo the same trauma but was a much more overtly willing participant in it's own futurist restructuring owing to it's shallow cultural roots.

    After WW1 the populations became largely alienated and atomized and so perfectly primed to joyfully accept the totalitarian identities and narratives espoused by Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or the "Democratic" West.

    As I see it, many countries like the ones you visited accept the consumer ideology of modernism, but also attempt to integrate it into their existing cultural continuity. The trends of homogenization still exist but they have been slowed somewhat.

    So, Japan still holds on to it's deep seated cultural conventions toward social order and decorum as profound cultural duties. The West is too broken up and fractious to maintain, much less create any sort of ideals of common social priorities, so it's basically every man for himself. This reverts to the mean of tacitly considering a grasping pathetic selfishness as a social virtue as evidenced by the entertainments that our society chooses.

    So, I basically think that you are correct that the social impressions that you pick up in these various countries really are much more than superficial. If a society is prioritizes the comfort and consideration of others and a sense of politeness, patience, and consideration then it seems necessary that there is an implicit spiritual alignment to such behavior.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  89. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    It's a very interesting question, Ivashka, what the sources of "self-respect" are - and the sources of optimism and the will to live.

    I have been pondering it lately.

    I have no definitive answer, but I feel like I've isolated a few key points.

    Self respect seems to be connected in a very heavy and significant way to morality - in other words, to the feeling that we are good. And this feeling comes only, it seems, from the traditional source of altruism, and benevolence - on some level and of some kind.

    I have just returned from spending some time in Thailand, Cambodia, and Japan, and while by no means pictures of good spiritual health, and in many ways heavily corrupted by modernity and getting worse, they seem to have a residual self respect and optimism lacking from the West (although their birth rates are similarly abysmal). And I am including Slavdom as a sort of adjunct of the Western empire.

    And these countries have retained official ideologies of altruism and benevolence - of course, there is much cheating and bad behavior, and evil people exist everywhere, but there remains in public life a certain amount of consideration for others and politeness, a certain amount of palpable benevolence seems to saturate the public space, and publicly at least, the official ideology remains traditional notions of altruism etc.

    At its most basic and superficial, it is at least a commitment to make everyone feel good and respected, to make public life smooth and gracious, to avoid giving offense, to avoid confrontation - while we in the West think these things trivial and superficial, I am beginning to think they may actually be of deep moral import. In Japan it is almost an obligation to smile and make others feel good - returning to NYC, how chill the air blew suddenly!

    And moreover, the Gods are everywhere, and are actively worshipped - but what is God but the principle of a higher connection to everything else?

    Now as we all know, official ideology in the West is of course Darwinism, survival of the fittest, capitalism, individualism - i.e, our official ideology repudiates benevolence and altruism quite explicitly.

    As Keynes said of capitalism, but might be a summation of the entire modern Western civilization - "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." :)

    On the plane home, flying the Japanese airline ANA and bathed in the soft womb like atmosphere of a culture devoted to making everyone feel good and respected, I watched the first episode of the new HBO series the White Lotus - and how hideous, and sordid, and morally squalid it all was! What a contrast! Every character seemed a monster of cruelty, selfishness, cold indifference, given to petty squabbles.

    Now of course there are complications to this picture - on a certain level, Asia is notoriously indifferent to suffering in a way that countries formed by a Christian sensibility have often criticized. And there are many defects in Asian moral culture.

    And the West does have a sort of official ideology of benevolence and altruism - Woke. But in reality, how motivated by ressentiment and a desire for revenge Woke is, and how remote from true benevolence and altruism. At best, it represents an aching desire for goodness, but how widely it misses the mark.

    And yet, even the Woke have more self respect and spiritual power than their right wing opponents, as seen by their infinitely greater cultural and economic power - even a distant, corrupted caricature of altruism gives more power than the frankly avowed selfishness of the Right!

    And then I think of the people I've emerged from, and left behind - Jews. I am deeply critical of so much in Jewish life, and think it is a very sick culture in many ways - the extreme competitiveness, the insane ambition based on fragile egos, the obsession with money and power, the unhealthy desire for personal superiority and distinction, but I must confess that there is a residual altruism and benevolence that complicates the picture and is, I think, the ultimate source of Jewish self respect. There is a moral passion to Jewish life, that however corrupted, and corrupted it is, is absent from the "objective, scientific" life of White people - or worse, the "Darwinistic" life of White people - except among the Woke, who interpenetrate with Jews.

    So what can we learn from all this?

    I note that you've often said here before that a people that abandons it's Gods loses the sources of it's power and self respect, and I am beginning to think you are right.

    But what does it mean to abandon ones God? Doesn't it just mean to abandon ones higher connection to others, and in a sense, everything else? Doesn't it mean to abandon altruism and benevolence - the sense that we are in a higher sense connected to all other human beings and really the whole rest of creation?

    Of course, I realize that you meant it on the level of nation - as I've criticized you for recently :) - but surely that's the same principle in limited form.

    And in the end, perhaps the contrast between nationalism and universalism is not as deep as is supposed - perhaps one can be rooted in ones collective, but from that solid base reach out to the universe - and the best kind of nationalism is one that reaches towards universalism without abandoning its roots.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I think that part of the vestigial culture in places like E. Asia is that the industrial revolution was less of a clean break than in the West. Of course, China intentionally created a similar cultural trauma in the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward, but in many other countries the industrial change happened in a way that displaced, but didn’t entirely wipe away traditional cultural norms.

    The West was also consumed by the horror of the First World War, which serves in my mind as the most definite inflection point which caused the West to stop believing in itself. WW1 and the aftermath fundamentally restructured Euro society and wiped away the main vestiges of a pre-industrial society. America didn’t undergo the same trauma but was a much more overtly willing participant in it’s own futurist restructuring owing to it’s shallow cultural roots.

    After WW1 the populations became largely alienated and atomized and so perfectly primed to joyfully accept the totalitarian identities and narratives espoused by Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or the “Democratic” West.

    As I see it, many countries like the ones you visited accept the consumer ideology of modernism, but also attempt to integrate it into their existing cultural continuity. The trends of homogenization still exist but they have been slowed somewhat.

    So, Japan still holds on to it’s deep seated cultural conventions toward social order and decorum as profound cultural duties. The West is too broken up and fractious to maintain, much less create any sort of ideals of common social priorities, so it’s basically every man for himself. This reverts to the mean of tacitly considering a grasping pathetic selfishness as a social virtue as evidenced by the entertainments that our society chooses.

    So, I basically think that you are correct that the social impressions that you pick up in these various countries really are much more than superficial. If a society is prioritizes the comfort and consideration of others and a sense of politeness, patience, and consideration then it seems necessary that there is an implicit spiritual alignment to such behavior.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    Yep, I think pretty much everything you say here is correct.

    What occured to me on this trip, is that the apparently trivial - from our point of view - commitment to making everyday life enjoyable and frictionless may actually suggest a deep moral dimension.

    In other words, a commitment to beautifying, and moralizing, the surface of life - which from our modern perspective is "superficial" - may actually be deep :)

    After all, the spiritually healthiest ages of the West also had this commitment to making the surface of life beautiful.

    I think you're right that the West adopted the Industrial Revolution to it's core, while some countries only as a superficial skin graft. And China is certainly as bad as the West - worse, I think.

    Also agree re WW1, but it seems to me the culmination of many of the philosophies and tendencies that had been developing up to that point - but it did indeed show the moral hollowness of the rational and mechanical civilization that has developed in an unmistakable fashion.

    What can one do when the times are bad? There has only ever in all ages been one thing to do in the face of such times - a renewed commitment to the Good and the Beautiful. To justice, mercy, kindness, compassion - and also, good manners and politeness, beautiful manners even - why not :) - and beauty in dress and deportment.

    After all, these are hardly the first such times of darkness.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  90. @LatW
    @Beckow


    I saw a TV report that had an older Ukie soldier in trenches – he looked formidable and spoke Russian, he said: “….I fought w some guys on the other side in Afghanistan, we Slavs are again killing each other…but we are tough, I will hold my ground…”
     
    Older "Afghan" guys are that way, they are a bit more sentimental, they are very decent, in Russia some "Afghan" group actually came out against the war. The younger guys mostly don't have those types of sentiments. They are more directly focused on fighting for their homeland.

    Btw, everyone was basically forced to go to Afghanistan. All nationalities, it wasn't a choice. So it wasn't some common ideological battle there, if the regular Ukrainian soldiers had had a choice, they wouldn't have gone there.


    These guys have sh..ty lives
     
    I wouldn't say that, there is a lot of good in their lives, they have more freedom and their women are prettier and more supplicating. They are loved. So not everything is that bad for them.

    You are right, they ‘take it’, but be careful, their resigned professionalism can turn on Kiev because they know what this is all about.
     
    I have never denied this. The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc).

    the war for the human tragedy it basically is
     
    These kinds of things happen when a country is called "fake and gay", when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn't have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees - there is a responsibility there, too.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

    I saw what you did there!

    Claiming that if the Ukie administration concedes any territory to Russia the average soldiers will march on Kiev…

    “The military and the volunteers are a force to reckon with. If the administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military (and their relatives, friends, volunteers, etc).”

    Nothing cures this formidability like fighting in a regular military for a couple of campaign seasons. Surviving contact with the enemy and your own officers is a cure all. Most veterans soldiers in all nations get chucked on the ash heap. “Volunteers” which is a cute term of art for Fanatical Nationalists will prove even more disposable and will be seen as a threat by any pragmatic government.

  91. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Laxa, welcome back !

    🙂

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mikel

    yep

  92. By the way, how are you “far right”? I thought you were Jewish.

    I’m a loyal Trump supporter who rejects democracy and the Constitution and I hate the United States, its culture and its institutions. I really hate the military, the FBI, the CIA and large portion of the American electorate. I want the US to break up. If you talked to 1000 other Americans irl, I would be far to the right of all of them.

    Although by internet standards I guess you could say I’m pretty centrist.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Greasy William


    rejects democracy and the Constitution and I hate the United States, its culture and its institutions.
    ...
    I would be far to the right of all of them.

     
    You should properly describe yourself as Far-Left. Or, possibly Alt-Left.

    Hating America and the Constitution makes you an ideological soul mate to The Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa. You will likely state that you also hate Antifa. This does not present a problem for accurate, Alt-Left identification: (1)


    ANNALS OF LEFTIST AUTOPHAGY:

    Intra-Radical Fight: Antifa Assaults Left-Leaning Portland Bar For Daring To Stay Open During COVID.


    Andy Ngô -- Exclusive: An #Antifa blog published claim of responsibility for a purported attack on a far-left bar in Portland as retaliation for them "spreading Covid" by remaining open.

    Worker's Tap helps fundraise for the Atlanta gunman & the terror autonomous zone.
     


     
    Ultra-Left hate despising merely Far-Left hate is typical. Please feel free to simultaneously hate your fellow Leftoids and MAGA "Right" Main Street America.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://instapundit.com/567647/

    , @LatW
    @Greasy William

    That's not exactly far right, but some weird type of nihilism. A real American nationalist would still be clutching on to something in the core culture or at least some institutions (if not the woke military, then some kind of a militia or something). You're not a far right winger. The core far right ideology is positive, not nihilist.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  93. It’s a Tranny.

    The Hobby Horse of the Russo-Japanese war is a particular Nay-ing and Bray-ing obsession. Secret Flowery Societies are Zer thing.

    https://journals.openedition.org/diacronie/4738

    “That Japan perceived Russia as an enemy is clear, since the war against Russia was supported by the Japanese public and every single victory of Japan’s army and navy was celebrated. The war was eventually won and the Amur Society practically lost its reason for existence, but the Peace Treaty of Portsmouth was considered a shame. The Japanese Empire had lost all its battles in Manchuria, and the Russian ships were destroyed or interned in neutral harbors after the Battle of Tsushima. In Portsmouth, however, Foreign Minister Komura Jutarō (1855-1911) was unable to bring home either an indemnity or a territorial gain. The outburst of the population in the Hibiya Park riots has been described by many authors and the members of the Amur Society, who protested the terms of the treaty. They then organized a sub-society that was supposed to organize public lectures against the Treaty of Portsmouth. How long it existed is unclear, but in the very least, some of these meetings were organized in the last months of 1905. The Amur Society itself also continued to exist – the war might have been won but the danger of Russia did not disappear completely, especially since the United States kept the Czarist Empire as a pawn in East Asia. Uchida and his men therefore still had a purpose and did not dissolve the Society, which existed until 1945. Its agitation in later years, however, would not solely target Russia, but also the United States, who acted in 1905 like St. Petersburg had in 1895.”

  94. @Greasy William

    By the way, how are you “far right”? I thought you were Jewish.
     
    I'm a loyal Trump supporter who rejects democracy and the Constitution and I hate the United States, its culture and its institutions. I really hate the military, the FBI, the CIA and large portion of the American electorate. I want the US to break up. If you talked to 1000 other Americans irl, I would be far to the right of all of them.

    Although by internet standards I guess you could say I'm pretty centrist.

    Replies: @A123, @LatW

    rejects democracy and the Constitution and I hate the United States, its culture and its institutions.

    I would be far to the right of all of them.

    You should properly describe yourself as Far-Left. Or, possibly Alt-Left.

    Hating America and the Constitution makes you an ideological soul mate to The Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa. You will likely state that you also hate Antifa. This does not present a problem for accurate, Alt-Left identification: (1)

    ANNALS OF LEFTIST AUTOPHAGY:

    Intra-Radical Fight: Antifa Assaults Left-Leaning Portland Bar For Daring To Stay Open During COVID.

    Andy Ngô — Exclusive: An #Antifa blog published claim of responsibility for a purported attack on a far-left bar in Portland as retaliation for them “spreading Covid” by remaining open.

    Worker’s Tap helps fundraise for the Atlanta gunman & the terror autonomous zone.

    Ultra-Left hate despising merely Far-Left hate is typical. Please feel free to simultaneously hate your fellow Leftoids and MAGA “Right” Main Street America.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://instapundit.com/567647/

  95. Recent Russian trolling inspired by Ukie propaganda:

    Russian troops are in the process of capturing totally insignificant town – Bakhmut/Artemovsk. Which is part of capturing totally insignificant region – Donbass. Which is part of capturing totally insignificant country – Ukraine.

    • LOL: LondonBob
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Despite all the mental fapping over potential capture of Bahmut, more informed Zoperation cheerleaders sometimes still have the courage to face the sobering realities (post from Jan 30):


    About Artemovsk. We will take it in our hands anyway. It's a matter of time. But the real fortifications are located just on the next line. There are entire underground cities filled with concrete. Khokhols themselves now do not understand why they are driven to slaughter in Artemovsk, which is located in a hollow ditch from all sides, when hills begin behind it, which are simply turned into an impregnable fortress. They die because at the moment there is such a political decision, but after the capture of Artemovsk it will be extremely difficult for us to break through the next line of defense. This must be understood, and we ourselves will be in the lowland being shot at after.
     
    https://t.me/alexparkerlives/2442

    Replies: @Greasy William

  96. @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    You see the glass as half empty. The guys on the top think they are ubers and there is no chance these filthy scum could ever get it together to take them out. They are not afraid of any number of Turks, Arabs, Africans and Chinese. They are cooking ethnic selective biological warfare weapons right now and on paper and in powerpoints they don’t have any unmanageable problem at all. I saw a leaked slide pack. The last one said:

    Fuck around and find out

  97. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    It isn’t a conspiracy. Nor an elite plot. The fact is that Americans and Western Europeans, including many elites, want few children and are fine with immigration.
     
    The problem with the conspiracy theory formulation is that the elites have been pretty transparent about what they are aiming towards. It's not a plot, just policy. The conspiracy narrative can be a problem since it often frames a fairly direct conversation in a way which seems nuts to many people.

    Also, the line between conspiracy and policy consensus is often a blurry one. As we see, the media, institutions, and state will often come together to push what is seen as "the right side of history". More often than not, it's because they truly believe it and all parties are drunk on the same collective narrative. It is even possible to lie to forward the narrative, while being fully captured by it oneself.

    I disagree with the direction, naturally enough, and so make my own choices in life and in how to raise my family. Nations should do the same as well, as you point out.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, you’re not wrong.

    But the difference in saying: “I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z”, rather than “consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me” has many further implications.

    1. The latter makes the person look insane and hateful.

    2. The latter makes it impossible to persuade anyone who at least doesn’t much mind consensus politics on immigration and natalism.

    3. The latter leads to all sorts of bizarre views and indeed ridiculous policy proposals. Suddenly you have people thinking they’re going to get elected on a platform of banning women from holding property and leaving the house unaccompanied, for example.

    In other words, the latter is poisonous to everyone and every idea associated with it.

    The future for Western countries is not going to be as I would have preferred and I feel very sad about this and a deep sense of loss over what might have been, however these people are sacrificing their sanity in order to avoid these painful feelings and thereby dooming their politics. Anyone who has watched people deal badly with grief can see, in a microcosm, how this works, or rather doesn’t work.

    This also doesn’t mean there aren’t crazy people with their own dysfunctions within the consensus view, but as far as crazy goes, there are less and their voices are better excluded.

    I also admire your efforts to live your life while accepting the reality of other people’s. Everyone has to do that to some extent, it is just that political outliers often have to do it much more. Happily, the future will be much less bleak than the conspiracy theorists think, because there isn’t actually a millenia old conspiracy of hate against them. And happily furthermore things have twisted and turned in human history in werid and wonderful ways. Even not long ago people were talking as if every third person in the world would be Chinese! I am neutral to the fact that it will likely be 1/12 or fewer by 2100, but notice how big the change is. I mean the Chinese are great but 1/3 or 1/12 really isn’t important to me lol

    • Replies: @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Seeking tolerance for minorities made a great deal of sense decades ago. Even some light handed regulation of services. A small town with only one commercial rental hall is creating a problem if they will not take money for a fair and nondestructive use.

    Where things went awry was active exclusion of Judeo-Christian values and institutions. Why should Americans accept replacing Main Street values with celebrations against cultural norms? Why is the same Christian baker involved in yet another case headed up to SCOTUS?

        • How can "diversity" exclude God?
        • Is it not self evident that excluding Jesus is discrimination?


    But the difference in saying: “I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z”, rather than “consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me” has many further implications.
     
    Insisting on an immigration policy that centers on Judeo-Christian assimilation and adoption of American values is simply common sense. Demanding that American citizens take precedence over foreigners for jobs, education, healthcare, etc. are policies that should be entirely non controversial.

    The purpose of immigration is to serve the needs of the citizen population letting people in.

    Any other concept is guaranteed to produce problems and ultimately failure. SJW Globalism has twisted the discourse in a way that George Orwell warned about. There is nothing wrong with keeping America's borders closed to new arrivals. We are not obligated to take migrants that will make America worse off, regardless of their claims and sob stories.

    Similar logic applies to Europe

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  98. @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man’s burden exhaustion?

    I think Louis de Bonald once wrote something like ‘The proclamation of the Rights of Man was a signal of desolation and death’.

    This came from the idea that the philosophy behind it seriously misunderstood human nature and implementing it would bring about social collapse. Given the demographic situation you describe, it doesn’t seem impossible that he will be proved right. Though it is pretty surprising, especially if you grew up in the ‘End of History’ era.

    It might be fitting that Bonald was one of the leading members of what they used to call the ‘theological school’ of political science, when you look at the rise of the Muslim nations. Generally Islam seems to have been able to resist the principles of 1789 better than any European religion or ideology.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    I personally don't think Islam is healthy at the moment.

    I consider Jewish culture to be significantly unhealthy - at best, to have residual health that has not yet dissipated - and yet it is easily able to hold the entire Muslim world at bay. And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends. Ibn Kaldun thought the glory was passing from the Muslims already in the 12th century, and noted the growing vigor of the Franks.

    There probably is no genuine or robust health anywhere in the world now - at best, there is residual health and traces of health, which we should certainly learn from, but it would be folly to look at any culture existing now as in a good state. Of course, we should certainly learn from the beauty of the old Arab culture, as we should of all cultures.

    Even my example of the Japanese commitment to the surface beauty of life which betrays a deeper moral sensibility - this beauty is surely at least partially purchased by having America handle it's defense all these years.

    If Japan had to fend for itself and develop the "sharper" side of it's character, how much of this beauty would survive? Spiritually, perhaps the best thing for Japan was to have been defeated in the war, as one of the characters in an Ozu film I recently watched affirmed.

    To look to any existing culture would be to repeat out folly - instead, we should pick up all the strands of beauty and goodness remaining in existing cultures as well as from tradition, and unify them in a new synthesis.

    That's the task, not a return to the old or a turn to any current culture in wholesale form, which are all corrupted.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?
     
    There is a Russian saying that comes to mind: "the hunchback is straightened up by the grave". The progressive need to personally face the dark side of the progress before they understand the conservative values. As long as the (mostly) middle class liberals are somewhat shielded from the outcome of their ideology, they will keep up with their nonsense.

    Once the middle class badly maimed by the ongoing societal transformation and their life ending up in dismal results, then some of them will start to think. But it will be too little too late and nobody will care anymore.
  99. @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I think that part of the vestigial culture in places like E. Asia is that the industrial revolution was less of a clean break than in the West. Of course, China intentionally created a similar cultural trauma in the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward, but in many other countries the industrial change happened in a way that displaced, but didn't entirely wipe away traditional cultural norms.

    The West was also consumed by the horror of the First World War, which serves in my mind as the most definite inflection point which caused the West to stop believing in itself. WW1 and the aftermath fundamentally restructured Euro society and wiped away the main vestiges of a pre-industrial society. America didn't undergo the same trauma but was a much more overtly willing participant in it's own futurist restructuring owing to it's shallow cultural roots.

    After WW1 the populations became largely alienated and atomized and so perfectly primed to joyfully accept the totalitarian identities and narratives espoused by Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or the "Democratic" West.

    As I see it, many countries like the ones you visited accept the consumer ideology of modernism, but also attempt to integrate it into their existing cultural continuity. The trends of homogenization still exist but they have been slowed somewhat.

    So, Japan still holds on to it's deep seated cultural conventions toward social order and decorum as profound cultural duties. The West is too broken up and fractious to maintain, much less create any sort of ideals of common social priorities, so it's basically every man for himself. This reverts to the mean of tacitly considering a grasping pathetic selfishness as a social virtue as evidenced by the entertainments that our society chooses.

    So, I basically think that you are correct that the social impressions that you pick up in these various countries really are much more than superficial. If a society is prioritizes the comfort and consideration of others and a sense of politeness, patience, and consideration then it seems necessary that there is an implicit spiritual alignment to such behavior.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yep, I think pretty much everything you say here is correct.

    What occured to me on this trip, is that the apparently trivial – from our point of view – commitment to making everyday life enjoyable and frictionless may actually suggest a deep moral dimension.

    In other words, a commitment to beautifying, and moralizing, the surface of life – which from our modern perspective is “superficial” – may actually be deep 🙂

    After all, the spiritually healthiest ages of the West also had this commitment to making the surface of life beautiful.

    I think you’re right that the West adopted the Industrial Revolution to it’s core, while some countries only as a superficial skin graft. And China is certainly as bad as the West – worse, I think.

    Also agree re WW1, but it seems to me the culmination of many of the philosophies and tendencies that had been developing up to that point – but it did indeed show the moral hollowness of the rational and mechanical civilization that has developed in an unmistakable fashion.

    What can one do when the times are bad? There has only ever in all ages been one thing to do in the face of such times – a renewed commitment to the Good and the Beautiful. To justice, mercy, kindness, compassion – and also, good manners and politeness, beautiful manners even – why not 🙂 – and beauty in dress and deportment.

    After all, these are hardly the first such times of darkness.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXCzS0s4I4&t=181s&ab_channel=skyliquid2003

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  100. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man’s burden exhaustion?
     

    I think Louis de Bonald once wrote something like 'The proclamation of the Rights of Man was a signal of desolation and death'.

    This came from the idea that the philosophy behind it seriously misunderstood human nature and implementing it would bring about social collapse. Given the demographic situation you describe, it doesn't seem impossible that he will be proved right. Though it is pretty surprising, especially if you grew up in the 'End of History' era.

    It might be fitting that Bonald was one of the leading members of what they used to call the 'theological school' of political science, when you look at the rise of the Muslim nations. Generally Islam seems to have been able to resist the principles of 1789 better than any European religion or ideology.


    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.
     
    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    I personally don’t think Islam is healthy at the moment.

    I consider Jewish culture to be significantly unhealthy – at best, to have residual health that has not yet dissipated – and yet it is easily able to hold the entire Muslim world at bay. And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends. Ibn Kaldun thought the glory was passing from the Muslims already in the 12th century, and noted the growing vigor of the Franks.

    There probably is no genuine or robust health anywhere in the world now – at best, there is residual health and traces of health, which we should certainly learn from, but it would be folly to look at any culture existing now as in a good state. Of course, we should certainly learn from the beauty of the old Arab culture, as we should of all cultures.

    Even my example of the Japanese commitment to the surface beauty of life which betrays a deeper moral sensibility – this beauty is surely at least partially purchased by having America handle it’s defense all these years.

    If Japan had to fend for itself and develop the “sharper” side of it’s character, how much of this beauty would survive? Spiritually, perhaps the best thing for Japan was to have been defeated in the war, as one of the characters in an Ozu film I recently watched affirmed.

    To look to any existing culture would be to repeat out folly – instead, we should pick up all the strands of beauty and goodness remaining in existing cultures as well as from tradition, and unify them in a new synthesis.

    That’s the task, not a return to the old or a turn to any current culture in wholesale form, which are all corrupted.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I personally don’t think Islam is healthy at the moment.
     
    Maybe there are different criteria for health, you could look at how far the Islamic world lives up to spiritual or moral ideals for example. But there used to be this idea that success in political terms was something more modest than that, even if it was a necessary precondition for the development of robust spiritual life.

    Two of the key criteria for political success used to be preserving peace and ensuring the survival of the population. Muslim countries are doing okay on one count, not so badly but perhaps could do better on the other. Euro countries (inc. North America etc.) might be better at securing peace (questionable?), at least for now, but there is a bigger question about guaranteeing the survival of their populations.

    And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends.
     
    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  101. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    Yep, I think pretty much everything you say here is correct.

    What occured to me on this trip, is that the apparently trivial - from our point of view - commitment to making everyday life enjoyable and frictionless may actually suggest a deep moral dimension.

    In other words, a commitment to beautifying, and moralizing, the surface of life - which from our modern perspective is "superficial" - may actually be deep :)

    After all, the spiritually healthiest ages of the West also had this commitment to making the surface of life beautiful.

    I think you're right that the West adopted the Industrial Revolution to it's core, while some countries only as a superficial skin graft. And China is certainly as bad as the West - worse, I think.

    Also agree re WW1, but it seems to me the culmination of many of the philosophies and tendencies that had been developing up to that point - but it did indeed show the moral hollowness of the rational and mechanical civilization that has developed in an unmistakable fashion.

    What can one do when the times are bad? There has only ever in all ages been one thing to do in the face of such times - a renewed commitment to the Good and the Beautiful. To justice, mercy, kindness, compassion - and also, good manners and politeness, beautiful manners even - why not :) - and beauty in dress and deportment.

    After all, these are hardly the first such times of darkness.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    There you go, mind and matter are deeply entangled, and what we think and resolve mentally has an effect on "reality" :)

    All the more reason then to resolve well. It has a wider effect than we know.

  102. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebXCzS0s4I4&t=181s&ab_channel=skyliquid2003

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    There you go, mind and matter are deeply entangled, and what we think and resolve mentally has an effect on “reality” 🙂

    All the more reason then to resolve well. It has a wider effect than we know.

  103. @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    I don’t form my politics around widespread genetic engineering because it makes things so different that I don’t see the point in trying, however what does genetic descendant even mean once everyone is genetic engineering?

    What is “continuity” in this context, that feeling many on here want?

    Other interesting points:

    Grimes recently added that Nazis would be happy with space travel as they could be free to be Nazis. This is another big potential, though less likely change.

    And as for AI, if it becomes thinking and more intelligent than us, what is our future?

  104. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    Yes, you're not wrong.

    But the difference in saying: "I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z", rather than "consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me" has many further implications.

    1. The latter makes the person look insane and hateful.

    2. The latter makes it impossible to persuade anyone who at least doesn't much mind consensus politics on immigration and natalism.

    3. The latter leads to all sorts of bizarre views and indeed ridiculous policy proposals. Suddenly you have people thinking they're going to get elected on a platform of banning women from holding property and leaving the house unaccompanied, for example.

    In other words, the latter is poisonous to everyone and every idea associated with it.

    The future for Western countries is not going to be as I would have preferred and I feel very sad about this and a deep sense of loss over what might have been, however these people are sacrificing their sanity in order to avoid these painful feelings and thereby dooming their politics. Anyone who has watched people deal badly with grief can see, in a microcosm, how this works, or rather doesn't work.

    This also doesn't mean there aren't crazy people with their own dysfunctions within the consensus view, but as far as crazy goes, there are less and their voices are better excluded.

    I also admire your efforts to live your life while accepting the reality of other people's. Everyone has to do that to some extent, it is just that political outliers often have to do it much more. Happily, the future will be much less bleak than the conspiracy theorists think, because there isn't actually a millenia old conspiracy of hate against them. And happily furthermore things have twisted and turned in human history in werid and wonderful ways. Even not long ago people were talking as if every third person in the world would be Chinese! I am neutral to the fact that it will likely be 1/12 or fewer by 2100, but notice how big the change is. I mean the Chinese are great but 1/3 or 1/12 really isn't important to me lol

    Replies: @A123

    Seeking tolerance for minorities made a great deal of sense decades ago. Even some light handed regulation of services. A small town with only one commercial rental hall is creating a problem if they will not take money for a fair and nondestructive use.

    Where things went awry was active exclusion of Judeo-Christian values and institutions. Why should Americans accept replacing Main Street values with celebrations against cultural norms? Why is the same Christian baker involved in yet another case headed up to SCOTUS?

        • How can “diversity” exclude God?
        • Is it not self evident that excluding Jesus is discrimination?

    But the difference in saying: “I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z”, rather than “consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me” has many further implications.

    Insisting on an immigration policy that centers on Judeo-Christian assimilation and adoption of American values is simply common sense. Demanding that American citizens take precedence over foreigners for jobs, education, healthcare, etc. are policies that should be entirely non controversial.

    The purpose of immigration is to serve the needs of the citizen population letting people in.

    Any other concept is guaranteed to produce problems and ultimately failure. SJW Globalism has twisted the discourse in a way that George Orwell warned about. There is nothing wrong with keeping America’s borders closed to new arrivals. We are not obligated to take migrants that will make America worse off, regardless of their claims and sob stories.

    Similar logic applies to Europe

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @A123


    Where things went awry was active exclusion of Judeo-Christian values and institutions.
     
    I prefer Schopenhauer and Nietzsche.

    Ultimately, they don't disagree much in their deepest wisdom with your "Judeo-Christian tradition", but I have my preferences.

    Why is the same Christian baker involved in yet another case headed up to SCOTUS?
     
    The mob and bullying mentality shown towards that baker is repulsive, but it is a pretty minor thing on a national scale.

    There is nothing wrong with keeping America’s borders closed to new arrivals. We are not obligated to take migrants that will make America worse off, regardless of their claims and sob stories.

    Similar logic applies to Europe
     
    1 million percent agree. In fact, I think it would be a sensible and careful measure, especially in Europe. For America though, I can see how importing Asia's brightest has, and will, pay off from a certain perspective of national greatness, and I can see how that perspective reasonably appeals.
  105. @Ivashka the fool
    @china-russia-all-the-way

    Excellent comment.

    Of interest, the year 2022 had nearly the same number of births in RusFed (1,3M) as it had in Central Asia (0,9M in Uzbekistan alone). Moreover, while Russian (and other Eastern Slav) population is shrinking and aging, the Central Asian and Muslim population in Eurasia is still youthful and growing.

    Although the Anatolian Turk and Iranian populations are stabilizing, their societies are still relatively young. And short of (the likely) outright military confrontation between Iran and Turkey / Azerbaijan, their population should be at least stable, with the Kurdish and Baloch fraction still rural and growing in relative proportion.

    Why am I writing this ?

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let's consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That's 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav. Even if we only take the Turkic people alone, the immediate neighbors, it is 160M already and growing. And there are Turkic people in RusFed itself at around 7M people already with even more Muslims (at least double that) if we add in the Caucasus and the migrant workers from the Stans.

    In a couple of generations, it could well be 200M of relatively young Turkic people facing some 100M aged Eastern Slav and Balts. That's a mass migration and conquest scenario. And we all know that millions of gastarbaiters from Central Asia are already well settled in RusFed. While we also know that Turkic people and Muslims in general have an expansionist and conquering mindset from the dawn of their history.

    The Great Replacement is real and it will completely reshape the demographics of both Western European and Eastern European peoples' lands, America's included. And I am nearly certain that Islam will be a net winner, although it is hard to know just how religious people will be by that time. Probably less, but quite possibly more.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.

    What is it that is wrong with my people and other Euros?

    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man's burden exhaustion?

    🙄

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Coconuts, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    Well follow the arithmetic: add up all the Turkic people that Türkye (yeah I know) is striving to unite in a EU type Turkic Union: 160M. Let’s consider now the Iranian-centric populations (Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan) 140M. Add the Bengali-centric populations (Pakistan and Bangladesh) 400M.

    That’s 700M sitting South-east of the less than 200M Eastern Slav

    Yes, and even more reason for Ukraine to separate itself completely from Eurasia-Russia (Asiopa) and join with Poland and the Baltic Republics. Ideally Belarus can also be saved. Russia will not be broken up (that is an unrealistic pipe dream), it will be some sort of Eurasian despotism, but if it could in an ideal world Novgorod and Pskov and other European parts would also join. Alas, the Muscovites had snuffed out the nascent Novgorod nation long ago.

    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other

    Well, Putin chose to invade Ukraine to separate it from Poland and keep it in Eurasia, as a playground for his Chechens and Buryats alongside his Russian servants. He refused to leave us alone.

    • Agree: LatW
  106. @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Seeking tolerance for minorities made a great deal of sense decades ago. Even some light handed regulation of services. A small town with only one commercial rental hall is creating a problem if they will not take money for a fair and nondestructive use.

    Where things went awry was active exclusion of Judeo-Christian values and institutions. Why should Americans accept replacing Main Street values with celebrations against cultural norms? Why is the same Christian baker involved in yet another case headed up to SCOTUS?

        • How can "diversity" exclude God?
        • Is it not self evident that excluding Jesus is discrimination?


    But the difference in saying: “I disagree with consensus politics on immigration and natalism for X, Y and Z”, rather than “consensus politics on immigration and natalism is an elaborate hateful often millenia old conspiracy against me” has many further implications.
     
    Insisting on an immigration policy that centers on Judeo-Christian assimilation and adoption of American values is simply common sense. Demanding that American citizens take precedence over foreigners for jobs, education, healthcare, etc. are policies that should be entirely non controversial.

    The purpose of immigration is to serve the needs of the citizen population letting people in.

    Any other concept is guaranteed to produce problems and ultimately failure. SJW Globalism has twisted the discourse in a way that George Orwell warned about. There is nothing wrong with keeping America's borders closed to new arrivals. We are not obligated to take migrants that will make America worse off, regardless of their claims and sob stories.

    Similar logic applies to Europe

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Where things went awry was active exclusion of Judeo-Christian values and institutions.

    I prefer Schopenhauer and Nietzsche.

    Ultimately, they don’t disagree much in their deepest wisdom with your “Judeo-Christian tradition”, but I have my preferences.

    Why is the same Christian baker involved in yet another case headed up to SCOTUS?

    The mob and bullying mentality shown towards that baker is repulsive, but it is a pretty minor thing on a national scale.

    There is nothing wrong with keeping America’s borders closed to new arrivals. We are not obligated to take migrants that will make America worse off, regardless of their claims and sob stories.

    Similar logic applies to Europe

    1 million percent agree. In fact, I think it would be a sensible and careful measure, especially in Europe. For America though, I can see how importing Asia’s brightest has, and will, pay off from a certain perspective of national greatness, and I can see how that perspective reasonably appeals.

  107. @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Do you realize that Russia (and her supporters) is fighting the whole Ukrainian people and not just Zelensky? If he is ousted, then the Ukrainian people will not accept a pro-Russian or even a compromising administration
     
    1. The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
    2. I'm not talking about putting in a pro Russian guy. I'm talking about putting in a pro Western guy who simply isn't Vladimir Zelensky. Almost certainly Zaluzhnyi. Putin is a vain man and he will demand Zelensky's ouster because of the image of triumph it will give Putin, even if there are no actual policy changes

    If Biden wants to bail out at the most critical moment, the US should take certain terms such as “territorial integrity” out of their vocabulary entirely going forward.
     
    The US can still believe in territorial integrity while also being too weak to enforce it. The West has money and technology but it is too degenerate and gay to win a long fight with a determined adversary. WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930's.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it's technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness. When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight? I doubt it. Remember that liberal Swede you spoke to who said he wanted Sweden to mobilize against Russia? He meant he wanted Sweden to mobilize misogynistic Islamic immigrants and xenophobic working class white men. He certainly wasn't calling to mobilize educated, liberal middle class Swedes like himself.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia. US military recruitment is already down 25% and we aren't even at war. Simply nobody wants to fight for GloboHomo.

    This reminds me a little bit of the 2006 war between Israel in Lebanon where Israel had an insane manpower and technological advantage and unlimited US support and it still managed to lose the war because Israeli society had become too degenerate and gay to sustain meaningful casualties.

    Replies: @LatW, @AP

    The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time

    They don’t, in the sense that Russia is attacking and they feel that they have no choice but to defend their homes and people.

    WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930’s.

    If by the West you mean the Anglo world + Germany, probably (excluding some pockets such as the American South, although those guys need to get fitter and healthier). This isn’t true of Poland, the Baltics, probably not even Scandinavia despite its liberal ideology. Probably not true of Meds either.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it’s technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness

    Not really.

    When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight

    Ukraine is not the USA. In the Ukraine the middle class are just as nationalistic as the rest, if not more so. The most nationalistic part of Ukraine, Galicia, is also among the most educated. The “yokels” are bit softer in their nationalism (but not by much). One reason why Ukraine is outperforming Russia per person is that a lot of smart educated nationalistic Ukrainians are on the battlefield, improvising drones, etc.

    The bad thing abut this is that while Russia is wiping out its dregs, Ukraine is losing some of its best. It’s not an even trade. 10 Russian convicts aren’t worth a Ukrainian programmer.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia.

    America can inflict huge casualties while losing a minimal number of troops if it wants to. Some overweight kid munching on Fritos in front of a screen can remotely destroy many Russian troops. And it’s a big country, even if only a small % of its people have what it takes to be tough soldiers on the ground that’s enough to have first rate special forces.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @AP


    They don’t, in the sense that Russia is attacking and they feel that they have no choice but to defend their homes and people.
     
    What I mean is that when Uncle Sam tells Zelensky that it's time to step aside in favor of Zalhuzhnyi (who Zelensky reviles, btw) that Zelensky will meekly comply

    America can inflict huge casualties while losing a minimal number of troops if it wants to. Some overweight kid munching on Fritos in front of a screen can remotely destroy many Russian troops. And it’s a big country, even if only a small % of its people have what it takes to be tough soldiers on the ground that’s enough to have first rate special forces.
     
    This is what I used to believe, but I am no longer convinced. The US airpower + proxies way of war may work against the 3rd world armies but Russia, while technologically inferior, does still have good enough technology of it's own that would be able to force the US to actually fight and not just hide behind it's tech.
  108. @A123
    @Beckow


    US simply doesn’t understand the meaning of a non-military agreement. Turning a ‘promise‘ into a ‘treaty‘ is meaningless, adding verbiage with no difference.
     
    Care to back that up?
    Or, are you just bloviating?

    Same challenge to you as offered to AnonfromTN

    Name some *recent*, Senate ratified, Treaties that were violated.
    ...
    Please do not attempt painfully obvious and comical misdirection by raising WTO/GATT. Every signer nation has broken the trade follies. Therefore, what you would be stating is that NO country on the entire planet is agreement capable… Though there may be a grain of truth in that.


    Trying to use the issues with Colorado River water will also be seen as comical misdirection. The science underlying the legal framework for water use was based on bad science.

    You simply cannot negotiate with people who think honor is how successfully you trick the other side
     
    I concur, but again point out that your observation is misdirected.

    The EU Empire, has no honor and carries a deep grudge rooted in inferiority. They are still deploying treachery against the UK despite BREXIT being successfully passed almost a decade ago. Trickery is an expected core EU trait.

    As long as Kiev is an EU puppet, negotiation capable Putin has no one to work with. Eventually Zelensky will go. Ukraine will obtain leadership not contaminated by the EU. After that, an armistice and ultimately a peace deal are possible.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Beckow

    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises – US has openly said that its ‘promises’ are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia’s borders.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally): ABM treaty, the Iran nuclear agreement, and a number of other disarmament treaties. It broke UN treaty that requires that UN headquarters in N York be freely accessible to all member states. Each time Washington uses some cacamonie ‘justification’ that amount to: ‘if we don’t like a treaty anymore, we will simply not obey it, or declare that we are leaving it‘.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say “we can do it, shut up’.

    Your indignation is misplaced. The reality is that there is no point in negotiating with US without having the ability on the ground to enforce the agreement. I suspect that is what Russia is doing now – creating facts on the ground that may be eventually signed off by others but without the ability to change anything. That is what Russia means by saying that US-Nato are ‘not agreement capable’.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises
     
    The U.S. cannot promise, that is not a Constitutional power. Therefore, the phrase "US promises" is gibberish. It has less meaning than mumsy borogroves.

    A specific individual can make a promise. That promise only applies to that person. Therefore, if Not-The-President Biden makes a promise it only applies to him and his administration. No President can bind future ones without a Senate ratified Treaty.

    US has openly said that its ‘promises’ are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia’s borders.
     
    What treaty states that NATO cannot be expanded? No treaty = no promise

    If you want to say that Bush lied... OK, I can see that position. However, a Bush promise is not a U.S. promise.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally):
     
    Exercising the right to leave a treaty is 100% different than breaking it. The reason why well crafted treaties have exit provisions with timing and notice periods is so that orderly disengagement is possible. Weapon treaties that do not include China are excellent examples of concepts that rest on geopolitical assumptions that are no longer valid.

    the Iran nuclear agreement,
     
    Do you mean JCPOA, which was never Senate ratified? If so, JCPOA was never binding.

    Even worse, sociopath Khamenei abrogated JCPOA while Obama was still in office by lying during the roll out declarations. What was at best "Obama's promise" was effectively dead long before Trump was sworn in. All Trump did was spotlight a truth that everyone already knew. Khamenei breaks his word.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say “we can do it, shut up’.
     
    This is sort of a 'special case' as the underlying documents are a colossal train wreck. The UN was hastily slapped together on the basis of optimism, without concern to actual workability.

    Various powers, such as the ability to Declare War, are enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. They cannot be delegated, for example to the UN, without a formal Amendment. Therefore, portions of the UN Charter are unconstitutional. It should never have been signed or ratified. Warnings about these issues were given at the time. Sadly, those concerns were ignored.

    The smart choice for the world would be dissolving the UN/NWO as a failure. It is doing more harm than good. Until that happens the U.S. is tangled, in knots that it tied, by signing the instrument of stupidity. It can only follow the parts of the UN Charter that are consistent with the U.S. Constitution.

    This is the same sort of bind that Germany discovered when its high court over turned the EU on Constitutional grounds. (1)

    *Germany decides*. That is the message the country's Constitutional Court sent to the European Union on Tuesday as it delivered a landmark ruling on the legality of the European Central Bank's bond-buying programs, a decision many observers say challenges both the independence of the ECB and the authority of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU).
     
    Sovereign nations are judicially senior to multinational bodies. This point is frequently missed, or conveniently ignored, when looking at international matters, such as the UN/NWO and the EU.

    It comes back to the same point I made about WTO/GATT. If you look at transgressions strictly, you will find that almost every country on the planet violates treaties -- No one is agreement capable. There is a grain of truth to that "realpolitik", and the U.S. is in no way special or singular in this regard.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.politico.eu/article/german-court-lays-down-eu-law/

    Replies: @Beckow

  109. @AnonfromTN
    Recent Russian trolling inspired by Ukie propaganda:

    Russian troops are in the process of capturing totally insignificant town - Bakhmut/Artemovsk. Which is part of capturing totally insignificant region – Donbass. Which is part of capturing totally insignificant country – Ukraine.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Despite all the mental fapping over potential capture of Bahmut, more informed Zoperation cheerleaders sometimes still have the courage to face the sobering realities (post from Jan 30):

    About Artemovsk. We will take it in our hands anyway. It’s a matter of time. But the real fortifications are located just on the next line. There are entire underground cities filled with concrete. Khokhols themselves now do not understand why they are driven to slaughter in Artemovsk, which is located in a hollow ditch from all sides, when hills begin behind it, which are simply turned into an impregnable fortress. They die because at the moment there is such a political decision, but after the capture of Artemovsk it will be extremely difficult for us to break through the next line of defense. This must be understood, and we ourselves will be in the lowland being shot at after.

    https://t.me/alexparkerlives/2442

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @sudden death

    The situation does not look good for Russia right now. I do expect that the Russian offensive coming in the next couple of weeks is going to gain tremendous ground but all the gains will be lost in the Ukrainian counter attack, with heavy material and personnel losses for the Russians.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Russia ends up having to settle for the status quo ante just because of how badly Putin has botched this war

  110. I have not done this for a while…

    😆 OPEN THREAD HUMOR 😁

    Open [MORE] for the rest.

    PEACE 😇


     

    [MORE]


     
     
     
     
     
     

    • LOL: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @A123
    @A123

    Oooo... Crikey... I forgot the British

    😆 OPEN THREAD HUMO*U*R 😁

    Not only is there an extra occurrence of the Letter "U". There is also video.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fw8deLYxx6E

     
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Jiu-oIurSLw/hqdefault.jpg

  111. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Laxa, welcome back !

    🙂

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mikel

    shhh, si on ne commence pas avec la psychanalyse fatigant, il ne faut pa de la trahir, a mon avis.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  112. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Despite all the mental fapping over potential capture of Bahmut, more informed Zoperation cheerleaders sometimes still have the courage to face the sobering realities (post from Jan 30):


    About Artemovsk. We will take it in our hands anyway. It's a matter of time. But the real fortifications are located just on the next line. There are entire underground cities filled with concrete. Khokhols themselves now do not understand why they are driven to slaughter in Artemovsk, which is located in a hollow ditch from all sides, when hills begin behind it, which are simply turned into an impregnable fortress. They die because at the moment there is such a political decision, but after the capture of Artemovsk it will be extremely difficult for us to break through the next line of defense. This must be understood, and we ourselves will be in the lowland being shot at after.
     
    https://t.me/alexparkerlives/2442

    Replies: @Greasy William

    The situation does not look good for Russia right now. I do expect that the Russian offensive coming in the next couple of weeks is going to gain tremendous ground but all the gains will be lost in the Ukrainian counter attack, with heavy material and personnel losses for the Russians.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia ends up having to settle for the status quo ante just because of how badly Putin has botched this war

  113. Can’t believe people are still fawning over Scott Ritter. This is bizarre. Even the most rabid supporter of Putin’s invasion must surely view Ritter as a total incompetent, nevermind convicted groomer. How can anyone explain the popularity and compliments below his latest article here?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Ritter is very charismatic and he tells a certain type of alienated Westerner what they want to here, so this has earned him a cult following.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  114. @Beckow
    @A123

    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises - US has openly said that its 'promises' are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia's borders.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally): ABM treaty, the Iran nuclear agreement, and a number of other disarmament treaties. It broke UN treaty that requires that UN headquarters in N York be freely accessible to all member states. Each time Washington uses some cacamonie 'justification' that amount to: 'if we don't like a treaty anymore, we will simply not obey it, or declare that we are leaving it'.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say "we can do it, shut up'.

    Your indignation is misplaced. The reality is that there is no point in negotiating with US without having the ability on the ground to enforce the agreement. I suspect that is what Russia is doing now - creating facts on the ground that may be eventually signed off by others but without the ability to change anything. That is what Russia means by saying that US-Nato are 'not agreement capable'.

    Replies: @A123

    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises

    The U.S. cannot promise, that is not a Constitutional power. Therefore, the phrase “US promises” is gibberish. It has less meaning than mumsy borogroves.

    A specific individual can make a promise. That promise only applies to that person. Therefore, if Not-The-President Biden makes a promise it only applies to him and his administration. No President can bind future ones without a Senate ratified Treaty.

    US has openly said that its ‘promises’ are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia’s borders.

    What treaty states that NATO cannot be expanded? No treaty = no promise

    If you want to say that Bush lied… OK, I can see that position. However, a Bush promise is not a U.S. promise.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally):

    Exercising the right to leave a treaty is 100% different than breaking it. The reason why well crafted treaties have exit provisions with timing and notice periods is so that orderly disengagement is possible. Weapon treaties that do not include China are excellent examples of concepts that rest on geopolitical assumptions that are no longer valid.

    the Iran nuclear agreement,

    Do you mean JCPOA, which was never Senate ratified? If so, JCPOA was never binding.

    Even worse, sociopath Khamenei abrogated JCPOA while Obama was still in office by lying during the roll out declarations. What was at best “Obama’s promise” was effectively dead long before Trump was sworn in. All Trump did was spotlight a truth that everyone already knew. Khamenei breaks his word.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say “we can do it, shut up’.

    This is sort of a ‘special case’ as the underlying documents are a colossal train wreck. The UN was hastily slapped together on the basis of optimism, without concern to actual workability.

    Various powers, such as the ability to Declare War, are enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. They cannot be delegated, for example to the UN, without a formal Amendment. Therefore, portions of the UN Charter are unconstitutional. It should never have been signed or ratified. Warnings about these issues were given at the time. Sadly, those concerns were ignored.

    The smart choice for the world would be dissolving the UN/NWO as a failure. It is doing more harm than good. Until that happens the U.S. is tangled, in knots that it tied, by signing the instrument of stupidity. It can only follow the parts of the UN Charter that are consistent with the U.S. Constitution.

    This is the same sort of bind that Germany discovered when its high court over turned the EU on Constitutional grounds. (1)

    *Germany decides*. That is the message the country’s Constitutional Court sent to the European Union on Tuesday as it delivered a landmark ruling on the legality of the European Central Bank’s bond-buying programs, a decision many observers say challenges both the independence of the ECB and the authority of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU).

    Sovereign nations are judicially senior to multinational bodies. This point is frequently missed, or conveniently ignored, when looking at international matters, such as the UN/NWO and the EU.

    It comes back to the same point I made about WTO/GATT. If you look at transgressions strictly, you will find that almost every country on the planet violates treaties — No one is agreement capable. There is a grain of truth to that “realpolitik”, and the U.S. is in no way special or singular in this regard.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.politico.eu/article/german-court-lays-down-eu-law/

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @A123


    Therefore, the phrase “US promises” is gibberish.
     
    Precisely, so why talk at all? Among honorable people promises are kept, but you think honor is gibberish and the rest of the world knows.

    Whatever irrelevant, internal process reasons you come up with, Washington is simply not agreement-capable. 'Presidents change', sure, so there is no value in negotiating with a temporary place-holder. There are 'exit clauses', yeah, so there really is no binding anything...rules, 'ratified or not', 'others also cheat!'....you are making my point that diplomacy with people who can't make promises or agreements they will keep is pointless. So we are back to resolving issues with wars.

    Also your Iran obsession is silly and borders on pathological. Let go of it, it makes you sound deranged. Or if you can't, go and invade, they have a long shoreline, take lengthy breaks, don't maintain well, maybe you will get lucky. Then what? maybe minding your own business would be better...

    Replies: @A123

  115. @Leaves No Shadow
    Can't believe people are still fawning over Scott Ritter. This is bizarre. Even the most rabid supporter of Putin's invasion must surely view Ritter as a total incompetent, nevermind convicted groomer. How can anyone explain the popularity and compliments below his latest article here?



    https://twitter.com/MooshieMadz/status/1621901354053820416?t=B3foQP0faFd4xUUDOwQ7bA&s=19

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Ritter is very charismatic and he tells a certain type of alienated Westerner what they want to here, so this has earned him a cult following.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    I find it amazing how many people find the style of total bullsh*tter charismatic. Trump could be like that, but was saved by humour and his occasional self-deprecation. In other words, he owned his ridiculousness. Ritter, MacGregor, people like Escobar when they write, none of them own this stuff. They're just repulsive. I'd call them sociopaths, but it seems that there is an audience mal-adapted enough to make them successful. I assume these are the types who, in the playground, loved to cheer on the sociopathic bully and, from the side, exalt in telling others that they were "going to get it." Even Unz knows to at least tone himself down, no matter how fake this effort of his is. He'll express pretend doubts to try to show he isn't a raving lunatic.

    I term it the psychotic style, in contrast with the rationalist style shown by people like Scott Alexander. People who find that style irresistible should be careful, for obvious reasons.

  116. @AP
    @Greasy William


    The Ukrainian people have no say in the matter at this time
     
    They don't, in the sense that Russia is attacking and they feel that they have no choice but to defend their homes and people.

    WWII was won because the people of the Allied nations believed in what they were fighting for. In contrast, most people in the West today are unwilling to sacrifice to defend the West and large portions of the Western populations actively hate their own countries and fellow citizens and want to see the West defeated. In fact, the situation in the contemporary West has parallels to that of France in the 1930’s.
     
    If by the West you mean the Anglo world + Germany, probably (excluding some pockets such as the American South, although those guys need to get fitter and healthier). This isn't true of Poland, the Baltics, probably not even Scandinavia despite its liberal ideology. Probably not true of Meds either.

    On the surface, it would appear that the West could still defeat Russia by leveraging it’s technological and economic strength to arm masculine, right wing, patriotic Ukrainian men who will proceed to do the actual fighting/dying against Russia. The problem with this strategy is that Ukrainian society is itself starting to succumb to degeneracy and gayness
     
    Not really.

    When Ukraine runs out of uneducated, nationalist yokels, will the educated middle class be willing to continue the fight
     
    Ukraine is not the USA. In the Ukraine the middle class are just as nationalistic as the rest, if not more so. The most nationalistic part of Ukraine, Galicia, is also among the most educated. The "yokels" are bit softer in their nationalism (but not by much). One reason why Ukraine is outperforming Russia per person is that a lot of smart educated nationalistic Ukrainians are on the battlefield, improvising drones, etc.

    The bad thing abut this is that while Russia is wiping out its dregs, Ukraine is losing some of its best. It's not an even trade. 10 Russian convicts aren't worth a Ukrainian programmer.

    So what would you have Biden do? Send in US troops? America is too degenerate and gay to absorb significant casualties and it would lose any long term conflict with Russia.
     
    America can inflict huge casualties while losing a minimal number of troops if it wants to. Some overweight kid munching on Fritos in front of a screen can remotely destroy many Russian troops. And it's a big country, even if only a small % of its people have what it takes to be tough soldiers on the ground that's enough to have first rate special forces.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    They don’t, in the sense that Russia is attacking and they feel that they have no choice but to defend their homes and people.

    What I mean is that when Uncle Sam tells Zelensky that it’s time to step aside in favor of Zalhuzhnyi (who Zelensky reviles, btw) that Zelensky will meekly comply

    America can inflict huge casualties while losing a minimal number of troops if it wants to. Some overweight kid munching on Fritos in front of a screen can remotely destroy many Russian troops. And it’s a big country, even if only a small % of its people have what it takes to be tough soldiers on the ground that’s enough to have first rate special forces.

    This is what I used to believe, but I am no longer convinced. The US airpower + proxies way of war may work against the 3rd world armies but Russia, while technologically inferior, does still have good enough technology of it’s own that would be able to force the US to actually fight and not just hide behind it’s tech.

  117. @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...when a country is called “fake and gay”, when some assume that this or that country or nation doesn’t have a right to exist, that this or that country is not deserving of security guarantees
     
    You pick causes that fit your preconceptions. The ones you list are not reasons for the war - they are similar to some on the Russian side focusing on "Bandera", renaming streets,
    or Zelko playing a piano with his... distractions. One can say that you are picking small pebbles because you can't pick a big rock :)...

    The reasons for the war are Nato expansion and Russian minority rights. Security guarantees is a valid point - but security is by definition mutual. Inviting Nato when you know that Nato's main purpose is to fight Russia - maybe even defeat Russia - doesn't advance anyone's security. It inevitably led to the war. But it is a chicken-and-egg...


    If the (Kiev) administration starts compromising on the goals, they will have to deal with the military
     
    That's not my sense at all. Military is varied, but a large part of it is not eager to fight and die needlessly, watch the POWs videos. The most militant Ukies seem to be in Kev and further West - some found their way to Unz. There is nothing people about to die hate more than overly aggressive civilians egging them on from a safe distance...

    I strongly doubt the younger Ukies who are dying are any more enamored of the war, most are there because they had no choice. Your bubbling hatred for Russia is killing them, think about it...feeding a tragedy from far away is a rather evil thing. At least I want the killing to stop and reason to prevail. The outcome - some sort of Russia's victory - is inevitable, the only way to stop it is a coup in Russia or a nuclear war; the first one is very unlikely and can backfire. Nukes? How much fun would that be for people living in EE?

    You have ideological blinders on, seeing only narratives that fit what you want to happen. It is not going to play out that way. Then you will scuttle away seething with rage...

    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc...soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for "freedom"? This is my objection: you never seem to acknowledge what Nato did. You don't get to walk away from the wars done by your side. That is not serious.

    Replies: @LatW

    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc…soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for “freedom”?

    How can you even compare these two things? The Soviet men were in some cases not even told where they were going! There was no choice whatsoever. People were taken from far away republics that had nothing to do with that region at all. They almost took my dad who was totally against the Soviet imperialism. When they came home, they were butthurt, in Russia some of them went to work for racketeers.

    All those who went to the more recent Afghan war were all professional soldiers, who had made it their aspiration and who were in fact lining up to go there (because it paid well and could give you experience – that it’s a stupid war is beside the point, most of them are)! You are either too young to know this or you are out to lunch.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...How can you even compare these two things?
     
    Because going to war in Afghanistan is the same as going to war in Afghanistan...if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is...a duck. The details of who was recruited or drafted or volunteered for money are irrelevant: Russia invaded Afghanistan and then Nato invaded Afghanistan. Can't you get that through your pompous 'we are better' head of yours full of meaningless slogans?

    I told you that Nato invaded and bombed Serbia - you dismissed it with a very silly remark that "well, they don't do it every year, so it doesn't count..." Now you insist that invading Afghanistan is "not the same" and think that when you stick the scary word "Soviet" in there all discussion will stop. Yeah, Soviet!!!!, enough said, no need to think...

    You are stuck in an ideological view of the world that is in its twilight...as the over-stretched Nato non-army gets pushed out of Ukraine - together with the surviving Ukies - you will have to invent a new scary term for "Russians"...In the meantime, just live on hope that the glorious volunteer professional and aspirational (?) Western soldiers will save the day...any day now. Just like the Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it...you will never forgive them for it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  118. @A123
    I have not done this for a while...

    😆 OPEN THREAD HUMOR 😁

    Open [MORE] for the rest.

    PEACE 😇

     

    https://ace.mu.nu/archives/Weapons%20held.jpg

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi4eOvl2hGzdCsRlFhyVCZMxA86peXhYN-ulHUoqlUd7eiQpe2fjTIEc6fI-xZYtDg9UOpyVw4qd2k--5Zaq_mElsuuR70IayMTY1HklsV4D33ouWjfghJt84TwbyqLxUqHfc0tWLDCzE8yJSuqwyv1PsADvxaRYPYLd_TlRnQoAYUczN6wVvroxVYz/s600/a%20(19).JPG

    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWP7asIEuy21-Rgk0b97K_UAazpr4YAcVDHf0wyGY4bDMCqh0nBKQTY86YzcrRCMd2Ffib7sQ3Sb7HFfdoQtmlGkrNUEUCJ2kJz96UtjAXsKvtUI48cbA6AfEFwTTjmqY0WRWTF_7eV3zuIE6eWhqcBbq5BNugeFDBnoyzE8IPrAO_8EKc13C4wGoO/s565/daily_gifdump_4233_42.gif

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEifnyTyX_e1WtxNuQbCT7_n86wh6v2GwDJiBvL40rbeHG9dItZ_jwcGQGE7pl-QnidhmM99pG0BaEYkn40GSFcV-E1UbWt6thKkHhmteVZiucvMaa4QCicLb2_r1zEp98JOR_UfwucnhFh6yBJrZbSsXfguI2bo41j9cOjzJB8JoJlE4iOu0a5xPYsQ/s454/daily_gifdump_4228_03.gif

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvPc6S9iDY6plr-pl6Uywlz87QsPlPx9WcDtpLIMRFsrR1bv5v7PJv8K1hDS4a4zIeCaj1LhYRYa0ZAc7eBl4m4k5DijB5G9pxBjBCEtZLO76nv9_eXqA_MUQN7Z-64-xtVd_DCrr5n9SldLcngsrpa1GxpVJvk45KID3IvUZXSLEf6Xrrp4rwlvgKFg/s775/90mimb_932a6b60f26f11c9506261fcd55b921a_42ca1bd8_540.jpg

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjV9uoawHoMQPgmoNSeDtht-ZLEWAbxKOPLD-6p2SF2ThDqnZVAnBDly76Od5Gu5wSeQBJ4AQURK1ZLcMI8838SLSbmBhnX0rSSxvY7_hSw-WkP-zcTHsA4XEKdRLXcD11Lq6tdFQxxNpP2ZIhAZCI2OQcoGtZrQ6J8gvQuoDPckppnR2lNOYUVWciUHw/s579/1%20fgdfgdsfgdfgdf.jpg

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmz3mCSyUpbKJwAL8LMuMZurFEGrhRWVf7zKjhoBzCH2HB6eutW-S_xVPWIjmTdw7uvjFY9w7gl3nYnndPcm3GaAeL0CRrOw8J3DS79qxk7acpoyM28odmVsNgrYTpv3JW5K3gLqGSN0AGKF3d648g_44fJuHiRmIYRk-aQ783gKvWMvqJyT3QjXV5Mw/s960/505.jpeg

     
    https://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2022/12/318364019_8379006942141597_7475158334791979306_n.jpg

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFSk9NejED6s_gibUJTxqLCvd1PgVQVr1cSyxqRcZEzVUFDiVPl205Q1m28M_I6sY7CVLjaCQ66vvnC-HioZt4qqVeWD2oAUiiGpRs2svPpP-_MmnG_E8ZRj2FpLhKgAB31r6Osn23KT0fxG5j8AKCG7YcwjZEIr9O-nYPguR-4eGvTl2aZQj0mfLjsw/s540/90mimb_fea65c539adc935abdfa966c7bd0c8a9_3030371a_540.jpg

    Replies: @A123

    Oooo… Crikey… I forgot the British

    😆 OPEN THREAD HUMO*U*R 😁

    Not only is there an extra occurrence of the Letter “U”. There is also video.

    PEACE 😇

     

    • LOL: songbird
  119. @A123
    @LatW

    Real Jews are Republicans [from 2021]: (1)


    Poll: Orthodox Jews Are Overwhelmingly Republican and Growing in Number

    According to a new poll from the Pew Research Center, while the majority of Jews identify as Democrat, three out of four Orthodox Jews identify as Republican

    Compared with older Jews, young Jews are increasingly becoming more Orthodox. Only three percent of Jews over 65 identify as Orthodox, while 17 percent of Jews between the ages of 18 and 29 claim to be Orthodox. While some Jews become more religious on their own, birthrate also is a large factor. Pew explains, “Orthodox Jewish adults report having an average of 3.3 children, while non-Orthodox Jews have an average of 1.4 children.”
     
    TFR strikes again.

    The growing anti-Semitism of the SJW Muslim DNC is accelerating this trend. Both Jews and Christians are repulsed by the fact that open hate freaks, like Ilhan Omar, are being elevated by the Democrat party.

    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status. Other main branches of Judaism are also becoming more Purple, though they are not yet ready for Red realignment.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2021/05/11/poll-orthodox-jews-overwhelmingly-republican-growing-number/

    Replies: @LatW

    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status.

    I wasn’t talking about fundamentalist Orthodox Jewish. Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger (in the sense that we are talking about here). It looks like the poster Greasy William is trying to pretend to be in the group of far right Gentiles, when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LatW

    What the hell are you talking about? I have been posting on Unz for 8 years and I have always been avowedly Jewish


    Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger
     
    So there is no such thing in Israel as "far right"? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    I can't be too hard on you because I actually do know what you mean: you are thinking that "far right" == "neo Nazi", and indeed that is often how the term has historically been used and it's possible that's even how the term is still used today in your part of the world, but today the meaning of "far right" has greatly expanded. Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as "far right".

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW, @Wokechoke

  120. @LatW
    @Beckow


    Even your ideological diversion to the Afghan war is slogans. How about the US, British, Czech, etc…soldiers who went to Afghanistan recently? Was that a free choice? Were they there for “freedom”?
     
    How can you even compare these two things? The Soviet men were in some cases not even told where they were going! There was no choice whatsoever. People were taken from far away republics that had nothing to do with that region at all. They almost took my dad who was totally against the Soviet imperialism. When they came home, they were butthurt, in Russia some of them went to work for racketeers.

    All those who went to the more recent Afghan war were all professional soldiers, who had made it their aspiration and who were in fact lining up to go there (because it paid well and could give you experience - that it's a stupid war is beside the point, most of them are)! You are either too young to know this or you are out to lunch.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …How can you even compare these two things?

    Because going to war in Afghanistan is the same as going to war in Afghanistan…if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is…a duck. The details of who was recruited or drafted or volunteered for money are irrelevant: Russia invaded Afghanistan and then Nato invaded Afghanistan. Can’t you get that through your pompous ‘we are better’ head of yours full of meaningless slogans?

    I told you that Nato invaded and bombed Serbia – you dismissed it with a very silly remark that “well, they don’t do it every year, so it doesn’t count…” Now you insist that invading Afghanistan is “not the same” and think that when you stick the scary word “Soviet” in there all discussion will stop. Yeah, Soviet!!!!, enough said, no need to think…

    You are stuck in an ideological view of the world that is in its twilight…as the over-stretched Nato non-army gets pushed out of Ukraine – together with the surviving Ukies – you will have to invent a new scary term for “Russians”…In the meantime, just live on hope that the glorious volunteer professional and aspirational (?) Western soldiers will save the day…any day now. Just like the Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it…you will never forgive them for it.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it
     
    Russian joke about an anniversary of Auschwitz (called Oświęcim in Russian, after the name of nearby Polish city) liberation by the Soviet army (an anniversary was not so long ago).

    Germans say: it’s our holiday; we created this camp.
    Jews say: it’s our holiday; we were inmates in this camp.
    Poles and Ukrainians say: it’s our holiday; we worked as guards in this camp.
    Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians say: it’s our holiday; we handed Jews for this camp over to Germans.
    Russians say: what about us?
    Everyone says: you came uninvited and spoiled everything.

    Replies: @Jazman

  121. @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...How can you even compare these two things?
     
    Because going to war in Afghanistan is the same as going to war in Afghanistan...if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is...a duck. The details of who was recruited or drafted or volunteered for money are irrelevant: Russia invaded Afghanistan and then Nato invaded Afghanistan. Can't you get that through your pompous 'we are better' head of yours full of meaningless slogans?

    I told you that Nato invaded and bombed Serbia - you dismissed it with a very silly remark that "well, they don't do it every year, so it doesn't count..." Now you insist that invading Afghanistan is "not the same" and think that when you stick the scary word "Soviet" in there all discussion will stop. Yeah, Soviet!!!!, enough said, no need to think...

    You are stuck in an ideological view of the world that is in its twilight...as the over-stretched Nato non-army gets pushed out of Ukraine - together with the surviving Ukies - you will have to invent a new scary term for "Russians"...In the meantime, just live on hope that the glorious volunteer professional and aspirational (?) Western soldiers will save the day...any day now. Just like the Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it...you will never forgive them for it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it

    Russian joke about an anniversary of Auschwitz (called Oświęcim in Russian, after the name of nearby Polish city) liberation by the Soviet army (an anniversary was not so long ago).

    Germans say: it’s our holiday; we created this camp.
    Jews say: it’s our holiday; we were inmates in this camp.
    Poles and Ukrainians say: it’s our holiday; we worked as guards in this camp.
    Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians say: it’s our holiday; we handed Jews for this camp over to Germans.
    Russians say: what about us?
    Everyone says: you came uninvited and spoiled everything.

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Now Polish state claim Russian killed 5.5 million Poles . Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  122. @LatW
    @A123


    The Orthodox have made it to proper Red status.
     
    I wasn't talking about fundamentalist Orthodox Jewish. Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger (in the sense that we are talking about here). It looks like the poster Greasy William is trying to pretend to be in the group of far right Gentiles, when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    What the hell are you talking about? I have been posting on Unz for 8 years and I have always been avowedly Jewish

    Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger

    So there is no such thing in Israel as “far right”? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    I can’t be too hard on you because I actually do know what you mean: you are thinking that “far right” == “neo Nazi”, and indeed that is often how the term has historically been used and it’s possible that’s even how the term is still used today in your part of the world, but today the meaning of “far right” has greatly expanded. Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as “far right”.

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.

    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    So there is no such thing in Israel as “far right”? Again, what the hell are you talking about?
     
    But you are not an Israeli right winger. I thought you were American. From what I understood above, you tried to place yourself in the Gentiles right winger group.

    Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as “far right”.
     
    Those two parties are ethno-nats and, yes, far right in a normal sense (even if not national socialist, afaik). They are not nihilists like yourself, they are ideological consistent and sound.
    , @LatW
    @Greasy William



    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed
     
    You won't be deciding what is an appropriate way to speak.

    A friendly advice, my dear - you might want to consider how self-destructive your contempt for America and the West is, nowhere else on the planet will you and your people be babied as much as in the US and the West. You are sawing the branch on which you are yourself sitting.

    As to Scott Ritter calling Ukraine "a rabid dog" - that's pure hate speech (that can have severe consequences). I wonder how he would feel if foreigners were talking about his people, his family that way.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Jews can't be nationalists. If anything Jews are the Destructors of Nations.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  123. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Ritter is very charismatic and he tells a certain type of alienated Westerner what they want to here, so this has earned him a cult following.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I find it amazing how many people find the style of total bullsh*tter charismatic. Trump could be like that, but was saved by humour and his occasional self-deprecation. In other words, he owned his ridiculousness. Ritter, MacGregor, people like Escobar when they write, none of them own this stuff. They’re just repulsive. I’d call them sociopaths, but it seems that there is an audience mal-adapted enough to make them successful. I assume these are the types who, in the playground, loved to cheer on the sociopathic bully and, from the side, exalt in telling others that they were “going to get it.” Even Unz knows to at least tone himself down, no matter how fake this effort of his is. He’ll express pretend doubts to try to show he isn’t a raving lunatic.

    I term it the psychotic style, in contrast with the rationalist style shown by people like Scott Alexander. People who find that style irresistible should be careful, for obvious reasons.

  124. @Greasy William

    By the way, how are you “far right”? I thought you were Jewish.
     
    I'm a loyal Trump supporter who rejects democracy and the Constitution and I hate the United States, its culture and its institutions. I really hate the military, the FBI, the CIA and large portion of the American electorate. I want the US to break up. If you talked to 1000 other Americans irl, I would be far to the right of all of them.

    Although by internet standards I guess you could say I'm pretty centrist.

    Replies: @A123, @LatW

    That’s not exactly far right, but some weird type of nihilism. A real American nationalist would still be clutching on to something in the core culture or at least some institutions (if not the woke military, then some kind of a militia or something). You’re not a far right winger. The core far right ideology is positive, not nihilist.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LatW

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW, @A123

  125. @LatW
    @Greasy William

    That's not exactly far right, but some weird type of nihilism. A real American nationalist would still be clutching on to something in the core culture or at least some institutions (if not the woke military, then some kind of a militia or something). You're not a far right winger. The core far right ideology is positive, not nihilist.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William


    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving
     
    Disagree. There are lots of things in contemporary America worth preserving. Mad libtards work hard to destroy everything that’s good in America. Unfortunately, the majority is too passive and docile to stop the mayhem.
    , @LatW
    @Greasy William


    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving
     
    This is your deeply subjective opinion (probably born out of mental illness, most likely severe anxiety) and objectively not true. Not only that but it will be preserved for still quite some time, hahahahah.
    , @A123
    @Greasy William


    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving
     
    Bottom line... There is nothing "politically right" about you. While the "right" does detest certain three letter agencies, the dream of MAGA is saving America.

    Hatred of America as a core value is exclusively Leftoid.
    ___

    @Barbarossa -- needs to reprise his "horseshoe" commentary on the similarity between the far right and far left. I concede that I am too emotionally attached to give such a topic the necessary observer view.

    PEACE 😇

  126. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW, @A123

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Disagree. There are lots of things in contemporary America worth preserving. Mad libtards work hard to destroy everything that’s good in America. Unfortunately, the majority is too passive and docile to stop the mayhem.

  127. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    What the hell are you talking about? I have been posting on Unz for 8 years and I have always been avowedly Jewish


    Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger
     
    So there is no such thing in Israel as "far right"? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    I can't be too hard on you because I actually do know what you mean: you are thinking that "far right" == "neo Nazi", and indeed that is often how the term has historically been used and it's possible that's even how the term is still used today in your part of the world, but today the meaning of "far right" has greatly expanded. Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as "far right".

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW, @Wokechoke

    So there is no such thing in Israel as “far right”? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    But you are not an Israeli right winger. I thought you were American. From what I understood above, you tried to place yourself in the Gentiles right winger group.

    Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as “far right”.

    Those two parties are ethno-nats and, yes, far right in a normal sense (even if not national socialist, afaik). They are not nihilists like yourself, they are ideological consistent and sound.

  128. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW, @A123

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    This is your deeply subjective opinion (probably born out of mental illness, most likely severe anxiety) and objectively not true. Not only that but it will be preserved for still quite some time, hahahahah.

  129. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    What the hell are you talking about? I have been posting on Unz for 8 years and I have always been avowedly Jewish


    Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger
     
    So there is no such thing in Israel as "far right"? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    I can't be too hard on you because I actually do know what you mean: you are thinking that "far right" == "neo Nazi", and indeed that is often how the term has historically been used and it's possible that's even how the term is still used today in your part of the world, but today the meaning of "far right" has greatly expanded. Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as "far right".

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW, @Wokechoke

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.

    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    You won’t be deciding what is an appropriate way to speak.

    A friendly advice, my dear – you might want to consider how self-destructive your contempt for America and the West is, nowhere else on the planet will you and your people be babied as much as in the US and the West. You are sawing the branch on which you are yourself sitting.

    As to Scott Ritter calling Ukraine “a rabid dog” – that’s pure hate speech (that can have severe consequences). I wonder how he would feel if foreigners were talking about his people, his family that way.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    It's only because Ritter can't publicly just point out that Zelenskyy is a Jew and so's Nuland and so's Blinkin and so's....


    There is a funny aspect to Ukrainian national aspirations. They are acting more like a insect infected by this big nosed circumcized wasp than rabid dogs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ySwuQhruBo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgAEeisfHW8

  130. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    What the hell are you talking about? I have been posting on Unz for 8 years and I have always been avowedly Jewish


    Only a Gentile can be a real far right-winger
     
    So there is no such thing in Israel as "far right"? Again, what the hell are you talking about?

    I can't be too hard on you because I actually do know what you mean: you are thinking that "far right" == "neo Nazi", and indeed that is often how the term has historically been used and it's possible that's even how the term is still used today in your part of the world, but today the meaning of "far right" has greatly expanded. Today even milquetoast civic nationalist parties such as AfD and Fidesz are described as "far right".

    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed

    Replies: @LatW, @LatW, @Wokechoke

    Jews can’t be nationalists. If anything Jews are the Destructors of Nations.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Wokechoke

    I'm not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.

    I'm just a Jewish guy who hates white (and Jewish) liberals. My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

  131. @LatW
    @Greasy William



    when in fact he has a lot of Jewish in him. It shows.
     
    This is not an appropriate way to speak and you should be embarrassed
     
    You won't be deciding what is an appropriate way to speak.

    A friendly advice, my dear - you might want to consider how self-destructive your contempt for America and the West is, nowhere else on the planet will you and your people be babied as much as in the US and the West. You are sawing the branch on which you are yourself sitting.

    As to Scott Ritter calling Ukraine "a rabid dog" - that's pure hate speech (that can have severe consequences). I wonder how he would feel if foreigners were talking about his people, his family that way.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    It’s only because Ritter can’t publicly just point out that Zelenskyy is a Jew and so’s Nuland and so’s Blinkin and so’s….

    There is a funny aspect to Ukrainian national aspirations. They are acting more like a insect infected by this big nosed circumcized wasp than rabid dogs.

  132. @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Jews can't be nationalists. If anything Jews are the Destructors of Nations.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I’m not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.

    I’m just a Jewish guy who hates white (and Jewish) liberals. My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Greasy William


    I’m not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.
     
    And what is not bullshit ?
    , @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    I'm not a nationalist either, but I don't think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.

    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi's?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Greasy William

  133. My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.

    Ok, in that case, you could be considered “far right”. But in a rather narrow sense, as an anarcho-capitalist. Such type of right winger must be strong and seek a tax haven. And I do sympathize with you btw since liberals can indeed be overbearing.

    Have you read Robert Nozick (I used to read him as a kid)?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is. For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Greasy William
    @LatW

    I had never heard of him, I just looked him up. He seems to be more an Ayn Rand type whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don't think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).

    Also, my main interest in libertarianism is far and away monetary theory, which is not the focus of the Rand/Friedman types at all. I would prefer an economy structured like the Inca Empire to one structured like Singapore because an economy with dishonest money is not truly "free" at all, whereas the Incas and Aztecs did in fact have free economies even though there was heavy state involvement.

    In fact, I have a radical theory that basically all political problems result from bad monetary policy. So whereas I used to advocate for a genocidal civil war as the only way to get rid of white liberals and GloboHomo, I now believe that GloboHomo will resolve itself when the current fiat monetary regime dies.

    Replies: @LatW, @Barbarossa

  134. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    Anglos were about to land and liberate Poland in 1944 and the damn Russkies beat them to it
     
    Russian joke about an anniversary of Auschwitz (called Oświęcim in Russian, after the name of nearby Polish city) liberation by the Soviet army (an anniversary was not so long ago).

    Germans say: it’s our holiday; we created this camp.
    Jews say: it’s our holiday; we were inmates in this camp.
    Poles and Ukrainians say: it’s our holiday; we worked as guards in this camp.
    Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians say: it’s our holiday; we handed Jews for this camp over to Germans.
    Russians say: what about us?
    Everyone says: you came uninvited and spoiled everything.

    Replies: @Jazman

    Now Polish state claim Russian killed 5.5 million Poles . Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Jazman


    Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz
     
    Russians opened the gates of Auschwitz.

    Where did you get this 5,5 million info from ?

    Replies: @Jazman

  135. @Greasy William
    @Wokechoke

    I'm not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.

    I'm just a Jewish guy who hates white (and Jewish) liberals. My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

    I’m not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.

    And what is not bullshit ?

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  136. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    Now Polish state claim Russian killed 5.5 million Poles . Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz

    Russians opened the gates of Auschwitz.

    Where did you get this 5,5 million info from ?

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @Ivashka the fool

    I read it on one Polish Facebook page it is bs just joking about crazy Poles

    Replies: @Beckow

  137. Ok, shit just got really weird…

    The US administration that is supporting Ukraine is heavily Jewish, as are many of the pundits, journalists, think tank people, as is the leader of the Ukrainian nation, etc, but because Greasy William opposes Ukraine, LatW starts insulting him for being a dirty Jew who of course would naturally undermine Ukraine 🙂

    Whereupon pro-Russia propagandist and arch anti-Semite Wokechoke, seeing his chance, tries to point out to LatW that Ukraine is being supported heavily by…..dirty Jews….so of course the Ukrainian war effort is merely Jewish manipulation 🙂

    So the pro-Ukraine side thinks Jews undermine it’s will to fight, while the pro-Russian side thinks Jews manipulate it to fight to begin with 🙂 (although perhaps I am being unfair to the pro-Ukraine side – LatW is just one neo-fascist woman with obvious significant cognitive dissonance issues regarding Jews that I hope she eventually works out, and not representative)

    But I am beginning to see utu’s and German Readers point about the whole region just being a basket case lol with certain Ukrainian elements being heavily self-destructive. I think this can only be a face-palm moment.

    But it’s OK – war brings out the worst passions in people and consistency and rationality is not to be expected.

    Still, I hope this space doesn’t devolve degenerate into just another Unz area..

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Mainstream discourse, including Putin: everyone I don't like is a Nazi.

    Unz discourse: everyone I don't like is a Jew.

    These are both stupid, but they are not equivalents. Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @LatW
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    significant cognitive dissonance
     
    There is no cognitive dissonance at all, do not muddy the waters. There are different kinds of Jews who on top of that act differently at different moments of time and circumstances depending on the situation on the ground. Yet there are some common qualities that might seem universal, but that doesn't mean "all Jews are the same".

    Zelensky is an EE Jewish guy who is leading Ukraine, a country he grew up in and that he's attached to. He wants to stick with that country because he frankly that's all he has. Typical Russophone Jew, his English is not good enough to be successful in the Anglo world.

    Also, because there are no incentives for him to leave the way other Jews have, because he would not achieve as much elsewhere as he did in Ukraine (or it would be harder). In this case, Ukraine actually lucked out because it seems that some of his Jewish stamina and insistence is helping the country pull through. Most pro-Ukrainians are Gentiles, though. There is nothing unusual about Gentiles supporting a Jewish guy who is on their side. This kind of collaboration is not uncommon in EE. He is "our" Jew, so to speak.

    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn't like Zalyzhnyi and that he brought up the "dismantlement of the nationalist militias". Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical "ceasefire agreement" seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies, so it can be safely assumed that he just free styled and made all those up. It's ok, it's a fine mental exercise but a few things were telling.

    Where the heck did the thing about "nationalist militias" come from?

    Now he claims he's a libertarian - that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).

    Moreover, a nationalist militia is very similar to some of the ideas that Robert Nozick raised with privatized police and other similar small scale security forces (especially on the local level, which is exactly how these militias initially arose - in pockets of Donbas and larger cities in the East, from the ground up, very libertarian!). That part is consistent with the laissez faire ideology, but for some reason Greasy doesn't think those things are that great when others do it. There he showed the "goat's leg", so to speak. Nationalism for me, but not for thee. Typical.

    P.S. Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What's up with that? Btw, Jews are not a topic I find interesting, but when they go out of their way to make it your problem, you have to deal with it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As an apostate, Zelensky is highly offensive to observant Jews.

    Lord Voldemort Volodymyr the Anti-Semite gave a highly offensive speech before the Knesset. (1)


    Likud MK Yuval Steinitz said it “borders on Holocaust denial.”

    “War is always a terrible thing… but every comparison between a regular war, as difficult as it is, and the extermination of millions of Jews in gas chambers in the framework of the Final Solution is a complete distortion of history,” he said in a statement.

    A number of Religious Zionism MKs also criticized Zelensky, with the far-right opposition party’s leader, Bezalel Smotrich, slamming the Holocaust comparisons and accusing the Ukrainian leader of trying “to rewrite history and erase the involvement of the Ukrainian people in the extermination of Jews.”

    Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rotman rejected Zelensky’s request that Israel treat Ukrainians the same way Zelensky claimed Ukraine treated Jews during the Holocaust.

     

    Given the extreme and repeated nature of Zelensky's transgression, it must have been an intentional insult. As a result Likud members loathe him. The religious parties are even more repulsed by Anti-Semite Zelensky.

    As a moderate, Netanyahu offered an olive branch to Zelensky. This did not go well: (2)

    Netanyahu, who was sworn in as prime minister on Thursday, called Zelensky as part of a series of phone calls with leaders of some countries that had previously voted in favor of the resolution. Israel wanted them to change their votes and oppose the resolution or at least abstain, a senior Israeli official told Axios.
    ...
    According to the Ukrainian official, Zelensky didn’t like the answer and didn’t agree to vote against the resolution or abstain. Instead, he instructed Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN to not attend the vote.
     
    Zelensky's open disdain for indigenous Palestinian Jews has driven Russia and Jewish Palestine closer together.

    All one can do when someone floats "Zelensky is a Jewish plot" is a great deal of pointing and laughing. It is so absurd that no one with even minimal analytic capability will bite on that lure of unalloyed crazy.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-lawmakers-tear-into-zelensky-for-holocaust-comparisons-in-knesset-speech/

    (2) https://www.axios.com/2022/12/31/netanyahu-zelensky-ukraine-israel-occupation-un-icj

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  138. @LatW

    My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.
     
    Ok, in that case, you could be considered "far right". But in a rather narrow sense, as an anarcho-capitalist. Such type of right winger must be strong and seek a tax haven. And I do sympathize with you btw since liberals can indeed be overbearing.

    Have you read Robert Nozick (I used to read him as a kid)?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Greasy William

    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is. For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is.
     
    I agree - both that it is an interesting topic and that it is hard to pin down. The closer one looks, the harder it gets to define (it is epistemologically problematic, if one can put it that way). Which right wing ideologies are the ones that match or are consistent with what might call a right wing ethos or right wing thinking on all parameters - economic, social, political. They vary a lot and often deviate from what could be considered a consistently radical right wing ideology.

    For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?
     
    I don't know enough about it, but it seems to have both leftist and right wing undercurrents. It might be too broad to define, probably one narrow part of it is definitely far right. I think in this case the approach to it is instrumental, not so much a worldview. It is peculiar that something such as this would derive originally from Marxism (but then again maybe not, if you consider the other ideologies and their fruits or implementation that sprung from Marxism). It may be that accelerationism was not originally right wing, but that right wingers picked it up and instrumentalized it?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  139. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ok, shit just got really weird...

    The US administration that is supporting Ukraine is heavily Jewish, as are many of the pundits, journalists, think tank people, as is the leader of the Ukrainian nation, etc, but because Greasy William opposes Ukraine, LatW starts insulting him for being a dirty Jew who of course would naturally undermine Ukraine :)

    Whereupon pro-Russia propagandist and arch anti-Semite Wokechoke, seeing his chance, tries to point out to LatW that Ukraine is being supported heavily by.....dirty Jews....so of course the Ukrainian war effort is merely Jewish manipulation :)

    So the pro-Ukraine side thinks Jews undermine it's will to fight, while the pro-Russian side thinks Jews manipulate it to fight to begin with :) (although perhaps I am being unfair to the pro-Ukraine side - LatW is just one neo-fascist woman with obvious significant cognitive dissonance issues regarding Jews that I hope she eventually works out, and not representative)

    But I am beginning to see utu's and German Readers point about the whole region just being a basket case lol with certain Ukrainian elements being heavily self-destructive. I think this can only be a face-palm moment.

    But it's OK - war brings out the worst passions in people and consistency and rationality is not to be expected.

    Still, I hope this space doesn't devolve degenerate into just another Unz area..

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW, @A123

    Mainstream discourse, including Putin: everyone I don’t like is a Nazi.

    Unz discourse: everyone I don’t like is a Jew.

    These are both stupid, but they are not equivalents. Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I'd like to add that only one of LatW and Greasy William has been cheerleading the murder of ordinary Europeans, so the two are most certainly not equivalent either. Slightly rude talk about a particular ehtnicity is irrelevant in that context.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Here's a good example of what Antisemite's call..."early life" or "everyfuckig time".

    recall Ukraine's novel feminist movement Femen? It was apparently a bunch of women from ukraine who opposed human trafficking, opposed domestic violence and even had names like Shevchenko attached to it. a Mix of tits and feminist sloganeering,

    If you watch Australian director Kitty Green's sympathetic documentary "Ukraine is Not a Brothel" a guy called Victor Svyatski shows up and Green eventually puts two and two together that Femen was a harem for a guy. Here's the guy who actually started this AgitPorn as a graduate degree project with a girl he wanted to fuck. He bears an uncanny family resemblance to Zelenskyy in certain respects. "uh oh" I thought. "What's all this? better hit early life!" Lo and behold every fukcing time he might be Jewish. Only Muslim sources seem, to have realized how Victor Svyatski may have an ethnic agenda going to defile Ukrainian women...even then they are being coy in the articles.

    https://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-femens-assault-on-muslim-women/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/9/4/man-exposed-as-topless-protest-group-founder

    https://orthochristian.com/64045.html

    There is something odd stirring in Ukriane their "Our Jews"

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world
     
    .

    Right, another example of the weird contradictions one finds in politics.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they're basically.....Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they're nationalist.

    I think homo politicus is just not a very sane and rational animal at the best of times.

    And yes, I agree both "Jew" and "Nazi" exist primarily as terms that have mythological resonance, and little real world descriptive power.

    At the moment, these seem to be the two most mythologically charged terms in the West - which leads to a rather impoverished mythological language, if you think about it, which may explain the impoverished range of our political discourse.

    Man needs a rich and subtle mythology to expand the range of his imagination.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  140. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ok, shit just got really weird...

    The US administration that is supporting Ukraine is heavily Jewish, as are many of the pundits, journalists, think tank people, as is the leader of the Ukrainian nation, etc, but because Greasy William opposes Ukraine, LatW starts insulting him for being a dirty Jew who of course would naturally undermine Ukraine :)

    Whereupon pro-Russia propagandist and arch anti-Semite Wokechoke, seeing his chance, tries to point out to LatW that Ukraine is being supported heavily by.....dirty Jews....so of course the Ukrainian war effort is merely Jewish manipulation :)

    So the pro-Ukraine side thinks Jews undermine it's will to fight, while the pro-Russian side thinks Jews manipulate it to fight to begin with :) (although perhaps I am being unfair to the pro-Ukraine side - LatW is just one neo-fascist woman with obvious significant cognitive dissonance issues regarding Jews that I hope she eventually works out, and not representative)

    But I am beginning to see utu's and German Readers point about the whole region just being a basket case lol with certain Ukrainian elements being heavily self-destructive. I think this can only be a face-palm moment.

    But it's OK - war brings out the worst passions in people and consistency and rationality is not to be expected.

    Still, I hope this space doesn't devolve degenerate into just another Unz area..

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW, @A123

    significant cognitive dissonance

    There is no cognitive dissonance at all, do not muddy the waters. There are different kinds of Jews who on top of that act differently at different moments of time and circumstances depending on the situation on the ground. Yet there are some common qualities that might seem universal, but that doesn’t mean “all Jews are the same”.

    Zelensky is an EE Jewish guy who is leading Ukraine, a country he grew up in and that he’s attached to. He wants to stick with that country because he frankly that’s all he has. Typical Russophone Jew, his English is not good enough to be successful in the Anglo world.

    Also, because there are no incentives for him to leave the way other Jews have, because he would not achieve as much elsewhere as he did in Ukraine (or it would be harder). In this case, Ukraine actually lucked out because it seems that some of his Jewish stamina and insistence is helping the country pull through. Most pro-Ukrainians are Gentiles, though. There is nothing unusual about Gentiles supporting a Jewish guy who is on their side. This kind of collaboration is not uncommon in EE. He is “our” Jew, so to speak.

    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn’t like Zalyzhnyi and that he brought up the “dismantlement of the nationalist militias”. Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical “ceasefire agreement” seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies, so it can be safely assumed that he just free styled and made all those up. It’s ok, it’s a fine mental exercise but a few things were telling.

    Where the heck did the thing about “nationalist militias” come from?

    Now he claims he’s a libertarian – that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).

    Moreover, a nationalist militia is very similar to some of the ideas that Robert Nozick raised with privatized police and other similar small scale security forces (especially on the local level, which is exactly how these militias initially arose – in pockets of Donbas and larger cities in the East, from the ground up, very libertarian!). That part is consistent with the laissez faire ideology, but for some reason Greasy doesn’t think those things are that great when others do it. There he showed the “goat’s leg”, so to speak. Nationalism for me, but not for thee. Typical.

    P.S. Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What’s up with that? Btw, Jews are not a topic I find interesting, but when they go out of their way to make it your problem, you have to deal with it.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LatW


    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn’t like Zalyzhnyi
     
    I have never said I disliked Zalyzhnyi. I don't know anything about him other than that he has done a phenomenal job running this war and that the Russians would be willing to work with him, whereas Putin clearly wants Zelensky out

    and that he brought up the “dismantlement of the nationalist militias”. Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical “ceasefire agreement” seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies
     
    When Russians say "DeNazification", that is code for the dissolution of groups like Azov. If you think that I personally care one way or the other if Azov continues to exist, you are incorrect.

    Now he claims he’s a libertarian – that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).
     
    I have been very consistent that this invasion is criminal and that Ukraine is in the right. That said, I don't buy the Ukraine war crimes propaganda and I suspect that the Ukrainians have committed more war crimes than have the Russians, and understandably so, given the circumstances.

    But while I am sympathetic with the Ukrainians, I can't ignore the global dimension of this conflict. The US is supporting Ukraine to make the world safe for GloboHomo. Period. Even the most diehard Ukrainian nationalist should be able to recognize that fact. It is no coincidence that once this war began, all the vaccine emojis on Twitter were replaced with Ukrainian flags. Nor is it a coincidence that all the Black Lives Matter signs that once dominated my neighborhood have been replaced with "Stand with Ukraine" signs.

    So I feel conflicted: on one had, what is happening to the Ukrainians is wrong but on the other hand, I want to see the upending of the "rules based international order" that allows GloboHomo to thrive.

    Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What’s up with that?

     

    Because I hate white liberals. Anyone who truly hates white liberals will hate the United States. Anyone who does not hate the United States does not truly hate white liberals.
    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @LatW

    I'm not a fan of Greasy William's pro-Russian and anti-American stance either, I think he's seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent, but I don't think any of that can be reduced to his Jewishness. I think your theory of "Jewishness" is trying to do a little bit too much explanatory labor :) (where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness)

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest - which as you probably know, is not at all uncommon among American Jews although typically from the leftist angle - should suggest that politics can't be entirely a function of ethnicity, but ideology must be conceded a significant role. Indeed, Whites seem rather to be going against their ethnic self-interest of late also :)

    He's also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person - says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism (his one position I respect), and waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression

    And while your description of Zelensky's motivations don't paint him in the worst light, I think the emphasis on calculating self-interest sans principle - that his loyalty is merely a function of Ukraine offering him a better field of for his talents considering his particular limitations than America, as if that has to be the main reason that a Jew doesn't end up in America - is rather inadequate as an explanation for taking the kinds of risks he has, and a limitation of your theory of reducing politics to ethnic self-interest.

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.

    But anyways, your positions are yours to take, so feel free to think as you like :)

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.

    And I agree the Jewish thing is rather boring for the most part except insofar in certain of it's sociological aspects (it can shed light on general human will to power psychology, etc), but as politics, it's dull.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  141. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Mainstream discourse, including Putin: everyone I don't like is a Nazi.

    Unz discourse: everyone I don't like is a Jew.

    These are both stupid, but they are not equivalents. Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I’d like to add that only one of LatW and Greasy William has been cheerleading the murder of ordinary Europeans, so the two are most certainly not equivalent either. Slightly rude talk about a particular ehtnicity is irrelevant in that context.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Slightly rude talk
     
    You do not consider it rude to talk about how another country's sons who have taken up arms to defend their mother, that they should be "dismantled" even though the enemy is still out there? You do not consider it rude to show disdain for another country's high military leadership?

    Let's fight openly and honestly. If one makes bold and daring statements about others, they should be able to take the same back.

    How about all the rudeness and sheer disgusting racism that has been dished out on this website against Ukrainians for years now?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  142. @LatW

    My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.
     
    Ok, in that case, you could be considered "far right". But in a rather narrow sense, as an anarcho-capitalist. Such type of right winger must be strong and seek a tax haven. And I do sympathize with you btw since liberals can indeed be overbearing.

    Have you read Robert Nozick (I used to read him as a kid)?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Greasy William

    I had never heard of him, I just looked him up. He seems to be more an Ayn Rand type whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don’t think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).

    Also, my main interest in libertarianism is far and away monetary theory, which is not the focus of the Rand/Friedman types at all. I would prefer an economy structured like the Inca Empire to one structured like Singapore because an economy with dishonest money is not truly “free” at all, whereas the Incas and Aztecs did in fact have free economies even though there was heavy state involvement.

    In fact, I have a radical theory that basically all political problems result from bad monetary policy. So whereas I used to advocate for a genocidal civil war as the only way to get rid of white liberals and GloboHomo, I now believe that GloboHomo will resolve itself when the current fiat monetary regime dies.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don’t think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).
     
    Do you even understand how absolutely insane and chaos induced this sounds? It's not even moral relativism, but something even crazier than that. Being ideologically inconsistent like that just allows you to manipulate - maybe that's why you are that way.

    Now I no longer remember in what context you brought up that you are a "right winger". It definitely wasn't the monetary aspect.

    that the Russians would be willing to work with him, whereas Putin clearly wants Zelensky out
     
    I thought you said he should be out, I must've misunderstood. The Russians would assassinate him, if they could (but that's beside the point).

    That said, I don’t buy the Ukraine war crimes propaganda and I suspect that the Ukrainians have committed more war crimes than have the Russians
     
    You suspect, you do not know. And you choose to close your eyes to what is known to the whole world (Russian war crimes).

    As to GloboHomo, you are supporting the imposition of direct and immediate, extremely violent and sadistic tyranny upon a free people, including completely innocent women and children, because you do not want the mystical GloboHomo to spread an extra thousand kilometers, into territory, where most likely it would not even thrive and into territory that is none of your business to mull about. This justifies murder of little girls for you and torture of innocent people. The deaths of countless attractive people at the dawn of their life. Needless suffering of elders. Do you even realize what you're advocating? Instead of just "being conflicted", as you say, you need to ask some very deep, serious questions to yourself. You are basically saying this is ok.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William


    all political problems result from bad monetary policy.
     
    This is maybe not too far off. Wokeism and much of general progressivism basically boils down to the fact that a tragic excess of easy calories gives people time and energy to think up silly BS that is utterly disconnected from reality.

    In a somewhat harsher world folks would have a lot less energy to worry about things like which made up gender perfectly describes them.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  143. @LatW
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    significant cognitive dissonance
     
    There is no cognitive dissonance at all, do not muddy the waters. There are different kinds of Jews who on top of that act differently at different moments of time and circumstances depending on the situation on the ground. Yet there are some common qualities that might seem universal, but that doesn't mean "all Jews are the same".

    Zelensky is an EE Jewish guy who is leading Ukraine, a country he grew up in and that he's attached to. He wants to stick with that country because he frankly that's all he has. Typical Russophone Jew, his English is not good enough to be successful in the Anglo world.

    Also, because there are no incentives for him to leave the way other Jews have, because he would not achieve as much elsewhere as he did in Ukraine (or it would be harder). In this case, Ukraine actually lucked out because it seems that some of his Jewish stamina and insistence is helping the country pull through. Most pro-Ukrainians are Gentiles, though. There is nothing unusual about Gentiles supporting a Jewish guy who is on their side. This kind of collaboration is not uncommon in EE. He is "our" Jew, so to speak.

    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn't like Zalyzhnyi and that he brought up the "dismantlement of the nationalist militias". Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical "ceasefire agreement" seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies, so it can be safely assumed that he just free styled and made all those up. It's ok, it's a fine mental exercise but a few things were telling.

    Where the heck did the thing about "nationalist militias" come from?

    Now he claims he's a libertarian - that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).

    Moreover, a nationalist militia is very similar to some of the ideas that Robert Nozick raised with privatized police and other similar small scale security forces (especially on the local level, which is exactly how these militias initially arose - in pockets of Donbas and larger cities in the East, from the ground up, very libertarian!). That part is consistent with the laissez faire ideology, but for some reason Greasy doesn't think those things are that great when others do it. There he showed the "goat's leg", so to speak. Nationalism for me, but not for thee. Typical.

    P.S. Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What's up with that? Btw, Jews are not a topic I find interesting, but when they go out of their way to make it your problem, you have to deal with it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn’t like Zalyzhnyi

    I have never said I disliked Zalyzhnyi. I don’t know anything about him other than that he has done a phenomenal job running this war and that the Russians would be willing to work with him, whereas Putin clearly wants Zelensky out

    and that he brought up the “dismantlement of the nationalist militias”. Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical “ceasefire agreement” seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies

    When Russians say “DeNazification”, that is code for the dissolution of groups like Azov. If you think that I personally care one way or the other if Azov continues to exist, you are incorrect.

    Now he claims he’s a libertarian – that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).

    I have been very consistent that this invasion is criminal and that Ukraine is in the right. That said, I don’t buy the Ukraine war crimes propaganda and I suspect that the Ukrainians have committed more war crimes than have the Russians, and understandably so, given the circumstances.

    But while I am sympathetic with the Ukrainians, I can’t ignore the global dimension of this conflict. The US is supporting Ukraine to make the world safe for GloboHomo. Period. Even the most diehard Ukrainian nationalist should be able to recognize that fact. It is no coincidence that once this war began, all the vaccine emojis on Twitter were replaced with Ukrainian flags. Nor is it a coincidence that all the Black Lives Matter signs that once dominated my neighborhood have been replaced with “Stand with Ukraine” signs.

    So I feel conflicted: on one had, what is happening to the Ukrainians is wrong but on the other hand, I want to see the upending of the “rules based international order” that allows GloboHomo to thrive.

    Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What’s up with that?

    Because I hate white liberals. Anyone who truly hates white liberals will hate the United States. Anyone who does not hate the United States does not truly hate white liberals.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
  144. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ok, shit just got really weird...

    The US administration that is supporting Ukraine is heavily Jewish, as are many of the pundits, journalists, think tank people, as is the leader of the Ukrainian nation, etc, but because Greasy William opposes Ukraine, LatW starts insulting him for being a dirty Jew who of course would naturally undermine Ukraine :)

    Whereupon pro-Russia propagandist and arch anti-Semite Wokechoke, seeing his chance, tries to point out to LatW that Ukraine is being supported heavily by.....dirty Jews....so of course the Ukrainian war effort is merely Jewish manipulation :)

    So the pro-Ukraine side thinks Jews undermine it's will to fight, while the pro-Russian side thinks Jews manipulate it to fight to begin with :) (although perhaps I am being unfair to the pro-Ukraine side - LatW is just one neo-fascist woman with obvious significant cognitive dissonance issues regarding Jews that I hope she eventually works out, and not representative)

    But I am beginning to see utu's and German Readers point about the whole region just being a basket case lol with certain Ukrainian elements being heavily self-destructive. I think this can only be a face-palm moment.

    But it's OK - war brings out the worst passions in people and consistency and rationality is not to be expected.

    Still, I hope this space doesn't devolve degenerate into just another Unz area..

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW, @A123

    As an apostate, Zelensky is highly offensive to observant Jews.

    Lord Voldemort Volodymyr the Anti-Semite gave a highly offensive speech before the Knesset. (1)

    Likud MK Yuval Steinitz said it “borders on Holocaust denial.”

    “War is always a terrible thing… but every comparison between a regular war, as difficult as it is, and the extermination of millions of Jews in gas chambers in the framework of the Final Solution is a complete distortion of history,” he said in a statement.

    A number of Religious Zionism MKs also criticized Zelensky, with the far-right opposition party’s leader, Bezalel Smotrich, slamming the Holocaust comparisons and accusing the Ukrainian leader of trying “to rewrite history and erase the involvement of the Ukrainian people in the extermination of Jews.”

    Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rotman rejected Zelensky’s request that Israel treat Ukrainians the same way Zelensky claimed Ukraine treated Jews during the Holocaust.

    Given the extreme and repeated nature of Zelensky’s transgression, it must have been an intentional insult. As a result Likud members loathe him. The religious parties are even more repulsed by Anti-Semite Zelensky.

    As a moderate, Netanyahu offered an olive branch to Zelensky. This did not go well: (2)

    Netanyahu, who was sworn in as prime minister on Thursday, called Zelensky as part of a series of phone calls with leaders of some countries that had previously voted in favor of the resolution. Israel wanted them to change their votes and oppose the resolution or at least abstain, a senior Israeli official told Axios.

    According to the Ukrainian official, Zelensky didn’t like the answer and didn’t agree to vote against the resolution or abstain. Instead, he instructed Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN to not attend the vote.

    Zelensky’s open disdain for indigenous Palestinian Jews has driven Russia and Jewish Palestine closer together.

    All one can do when someone floats “Zelensky is a Jewish plot” is a great deal of pointing and laughing. It is so absurd that no one with even minimal analytic capability will bite on that lure of unalloyed crazy.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-lawmakers-tear-into-zelensky-for-holocaust-comparisons-in-knesset-speech/

    (2) https://www.axios.com/2022/12/31/netanyahu-zelensky-ukraine-israel-occupation-un-icj

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    We're probably not going to agree A123 - this particular indigenous Palestinian Jew supports Ukraine, on the whole, and despises Putin :)

    (Pssst, I don't want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all)

    But thanks for your comment, and I generally enjoy your quirky commentary - the humor post was good this time.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

  145. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is. For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?

    Replies: @LatW

    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is.

    I agree – both that it is an interesting topic and that it is hard to pin down. The closer one looks, the harder it gets to define (it is epistemologically problematic, if one can put it that way). Which right wing ideologies are the ones that match or are consistent with what might call a right wing ethos or right wing thinking on all parameters – economic, social, political. They vary a lot and often deviate from what could be considered a consistently radical right wing ideology.

    For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?

    I don’t know enough about it, but it seems to have both leftist and right wing undercurrents. It might be too broad to define, probably one narrow part of it is definitely far right. I think in this case the approach to it is instrumental, not so much a worldview. It is peculiar that something such as this would derive originally from Marxism (but then again maybe not, if you consider the other ideologies and their fruits or implementation that sprung from Marxism). It may be that accelerationism was not originally right wing, but that right wingers picked it up and instrumentalized it?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    I think I should have been more precise and write from the outset that I was referring to the right wing accelerationists, not their left wing counterparts. Because you are right (pun intended) there are the two subtypes of accelerationism : the neomarxist and the NRx (for lack of a better description).

    What I wanted to emphasize was that while writing to Greasy, you pointed out that a true right winger would fight for preservation of something (Nazis for the preservation of "the Arian race", right wing Zionists for the preservation of "the Jewish people" etc.) However, despite being described as far right, a Boogaloo Boy would not care for preservation of anything because he would see everything as ultimately corrupt. Peak Kali Yuga frens (sic) as would say some (mostly young) Alt Right dissidents on teh internets (sic).

    When Greasy writes that "there is nothing worth preserving in America" he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types. This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of "good old" American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him). Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society. And I know that they're not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum. Even the kids who are not political at all are often only interested in hedonism and consumerism which is also existentially extreme when it comes to a certain point. There does seem not much idealism left.

    The "old ways" of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the "cultural Marxist" are to the Left what the "Alt Right" are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one's ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LatW

  146. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I'd like to add that only one of LatW and Greasy William has been cheerleading the murder of ordinary Europeans, so the two are most certainly not equivalent either. Slightly rude talk about a particular ehtnicity is irrelevant in that context.

    Replies: @LatW

    Slightly rude talk

    You do not consider it rude to talk about how another country’s sons who have taken up arms to defend their mother, that they should be “dismantled” even though the enemy is still out there? You do not consider it rude to show disdain for another country’s high military leadership?

    Let’s fight openly and honestly. If one makes bold and daring statements about others, they should be able to take the same back.

    How about all the rudeness and sheer disgusting racism that has been dished out on this website against Ukrainians for years now?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @LatW

    Sorry, I agree with you completely. I just don't care about racist words, when compared to the glee that commenters here have been deludedly celebrating Putin's invasion with.

  147. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW, @A123

    There is nothing in contemporary America worth preserving

    Bottom line… There is nothing “politically right” about you. While the “right” does detest certain three letter agencies, the dream of MAGA is saving America.

    Hatred of America as a core value is exclusively Leftoid.
    ___

    — needs to reprise his “horseshoe” commentary on the similarity between the far right and far left. I concede that I am too emotionally attached to give such a topic the necessary observer view.

    PEACE 😇

  148. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Mainstream discourse, including Putin: everyone I don't like is a Nazi.

    Unz discourse: everyone I don't like is a Jew.

    These are both stupid, but they are not equivalents. Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Here’s a good example of what Antisemite’s call…”early life” or “everyfuckig time”.

    recall Ukraine’s novel feminist movement Femen? It was apparently a bunch of women from ukraine who opposed human trafficking, opposed domestic violence and even had names like Shevchenko attached to it. a Mix of tits and feminist sloganeering,

    If you watch Australian director Kitty Green’s sympathetic documentary “Ukraine is Not a Brothel” a guy called Victor Svyatski shows up and Green eventually puts two and two together that Femen was a harem for a guy. Here’s the guy who actually started this AgitPorn as a graduate degree project with a girl he wanted to fuck. He bears an uncanny family resemblance to Zelenskyy in certain respects. “uh oh” I thought. “What’s all this? better hit early life!” Lo and behold every fukcing time he might be Jewish. Only Muslim sources seem, to have realized how Victor Svyatski may have an ethnic agenda going to defile Ukrainian women…even then they are being coy in the articles.

    https://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-femens-assault-on-muslim-women/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/9/4/man-exposed-as-topless-protest-group-founder

    https://orthochristian.com/64045.html

    There is something odd stirring in Ukriane their “Our Jews”

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I don't know anything about Ukraine's Femen. Nor do I care that some Jew* may have been having sex with some of them or not. I appreciate that it seems like a huge deal to you and indicative of some desire of yours to be defiled or whatever, but it doesn't interest me. As for Muslim sources bathing in obsessive jealousy equal to yours, that seems pretty normal for them.

    A very small group of beautiful but histrionic women working with a charismatic and potentially somewhat Machiavellian man, in order to gain attention and money, is not indicative of much, except that those two types often end up together.

    Furthermore, I don't consider those women "defiled." Did he beat them? I can't find any allegations. Or did he just charm them? In which case, they're adults making their own decisions. I am not personally sympathetic to "oh, what a dainty waif I am and victim" hysteria, whether open, like with much of #MeToo, or repressed, like with many Unz commentors, or even Andrew Tate himself.

    *Is he even Jewish? He doesn't look like most of the Jews I have met. He's fair-haired, has a normal East Euro name and is from Khmelnytskyi, which probably has a handful of Jews living in it. Can you find a reputable source for your claim?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Wokechoke
    @Wokechoke

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vBGo95SJz4&t=7s


    A girl's gotta eat, eh?

  149. @LatW
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    significant cognitive dissonance
     
    There is no cognitive dissonance at all, do not muddy the waters. There are different kinds of Jews who on top of that act differently at different moments of time and circumstances depending on the situation on the ground. Yet there are some common qualities that might seem universal, but that doesn't mean "all Jews are the same".

    Zelensky is an EE Jewish guy who is leading Ukraine, a country he grew up in and that he's attached to. He wants to stick with that country because he frankly that's all he has. Typical Russophone Jew, his English is not good enough to be successful in the Anglo world.

    Also, because there are no incentives for him to leave the way other Jews have, because he would not achieve as much elsewhere as he did in Ukraine (or it would be harder). In this case, Ukraine actually lucked out because it seems that some of his Jewish stamina and insistence is helping the country pull through. Most pro-Ukrainians are Gentiles, though. There is nothing unusual about Gentiles supporting a Jewish guy who is on their side. This kind of collaboration is not uncommon in EE. He is "our" Jew, so to speak.

    As to this Greasy William guy, what gave me pause is that he doesn't like Zalyzhnyi and that he brought up the "dismantlement of the nationalist militias". Btw, neither one of his talking points that he listed above for his mystical "ceasefire agreement" seemed to be etched out anywhere in the official policies, so it can be safely assumed that he just free styled and made all those up. It's ok, it's a fine mental exercise but a few things were telling.

    Where the heck did the thing about "nationalist militias" come from?

    Now he claims he's a libertarian - that means he is inconsistent in his ideology, libertarians promote the non-aggression principle and self defense (in this case, aggressor being Russia and self defense by Ukrainians being totally acceptable, in fact, a real libertarian should be on the Ukrainian side).

    Moreover, a nationalist militia is very similar to some of the ideas that Robert Nozick raised with privatized police and other similar small scale security forces (especially on the local level, which is exactly how these militias initially arose - in pockets of Donbas and larger cities in the East, from the ground up, very libertarian!). That part is consistent with the laissez faire ideology, but for some reason Greasy doesn't think those things are that great when others do it. There he showed the "goat's leg", so to speak. Nationalism for me, but not for thee. Typical.

    P.S. Then he trashes the United States (!!!) when the United States is the most philosemitic country out there that goes out of her way to protect Jews. And he wants to destroy the United States. What's up with that? Btw, Jews are not a topic I find interesting, but when they go out of their way to make it your problem, you have to deal with it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I’m not a fan of Greasy William’s pro-Russian and anti-American stance either, I think he’s seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent, but I don’t think any of that can be reduced to his Jewishness. I think your theory of “Jewishness” is trying to do a little bit too much explanatory labor 🙂 (where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness)

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest – which as you probably know, is not at all uncommon among American Jews although typically from the leftist angle – should suggest that politics can’t be entirely a function of ethnicity, but ideology must be conceded a significant role. Indeed, Whites seem rather to be going against their ethnic self-interest of late also 🙂

    He’s also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person – says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism (his one position I respect), and waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression

    And while your description of Zelensky’s motivations don’t paint him in the worst light, I think the emphasis on calculating self-interest sans principle – that his loyalty is merely a function of Ukraine offering him a better field of for his talents considering his particular limitations than America, as if that has to be the main reason that a Jew doesn’t end up in America – is rather inadequate as an explanation for taking the kinds of risks he has, and a limitation of your theory of reducing politics to ethnic self-interest.

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.

    But anyways, your positions are yours to take, so feel free to think as you like 🙂

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.

    And I agree the Jewish thing is rather boring for the most part except insofar in certain of it’s sociological aspects (it can shed light on general human will to power psychology, etc), but as politics, it’s dull.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    He’s also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person – says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism
     
    I have a completely different type of anti nationalism than liberals have. I'm not a Globalist, I'm just opposed to militant nationalism, or ultra nationalism if you want to call it that. I don't care about stuff like racial/ethnic purity but I don't have a problem with people who do. I don't see ultra nationalism or racism as immoral, I see them as stupid.

    waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression
     
    It's not my depression, it's that the information coming out of the conflict zone is so contradictory and we don't have any historical precedents for this type of war. For a long time I was convinced that Russia was winning big time, largely because I completely ignored all mainstream Western sources because I just assumed they were lying about everything. Now I'm consuming a wider variety of sources and things become only more unclear to me with time.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  150. @Greasy William
    @Wokechoke

    I'm not a nationalist. Blood and soil is bullshit.

    I'm just a Jewish guy who hates white (and Jewish) liberals. My political/economic views are basically Von Mises.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

    I’m not a nationalist either, but I don’t think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.

    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi’s?

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Barbarossa


    I’m not a nationalist either, but I don’t think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.
     
    Blood and soil is another term that has been permanently tarred by association with Nazism; at least in the West. But in its moderate, non-genocidal form; is a fairly reasonable proposition and a good basis to form a nation around. Ideally it’d be applied to a mono-ethnic nation like Japan; where people can just say “Japan belongs to the Japanese” without offending too many people; thus ensuring the continued existence of the Japanese ethnos for the long-term. But mono-ethnic nations are fairly rare. States like Russia, where 85%+ of people are of a single ethnicity, can also make blood and soil nationalism work if they allow some leeway for indigenous minorities; or to splinter off reluctant ones like the Chechens.

    Blood and soil becomes problematic when people get cowardly and greedy and start thinking ethnic cleansing is an appropriate method of attaining a “pure” state. But extremities should not automatically discredit a moderate version of a particular ideology; which is why I also object to people tarring social democratic views with “socialism” or “communism”. Superficially they may be similar; but moderation can make all the difference.

    Jews in the West are understandably suspicious of blood and soil since they tend to be minorities; and were victims of the extreme manifestation of the ideology. But they seem to be all for it in Israel. Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger; which does seem inconsistent (nationalism for me; but not for thee).

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi’s?
     
    Something like that

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  151. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Mainstream discourse, including Putin: everyone I don't like is a Nazi.

    Unz discourse: everyone I don't like is a Jew.

    These are both stupid, but they are not equivalents. Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world

    .

    Right, another example of the weird contradictions one finds in politics.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they’re basically…..Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they’re nationalist.

    I think homo politicus is just not a very sane and rational animal at the best of times.

    And yes, I agree both “Jew” and “Nazi” exist primarily as terms that have mythological resonance, and little real world descriptive power.

    At the moment, these seem to be the two most mythologically charged terms in the West – which leads to a rather impoverished mythological language, if you think about it, which may explain the impoverished range of our political discourse.

    Man needs a rich and subtle mythology to expand the range of his imagination.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, and it gets funnier than that. Much of the Unz crowd loves everything about Jews, except they're not them. And hates everything about white Gentiles, except they are them.

    Of course their image of the two respective categories is a total fantasy*, but the internal contradiction is hilarious.

    * The most amusing way to prove that their respective images of the two is a complete fantasy is to compare their attitude to Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Freud. None of which they understand, but they still attach a lot of different judgements and emotions to. In particular, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer are seen as bastions against the totally evil and subversive Freud. Even though, in reality, the work of those three carries the same meaning! They're reformulations of the same ideas! Uncontroversially. Any person who reads them all will inform you of this as a statement of plain fact.

    Lol



    https://twitter.com/lacancircle/status/1621861499148066817?t=os0iLklm3217w30mpSb17g&s=19

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  152. Here’s a good example of what Anti-Semite’s call…”Early Life” or “Every Fucking Time”.

    Recall Ukraine’s novel feminist movement Femen? It was apparently a bunch of women from Ukraine who opposed human trafficking, opposed domestic violence and even had names like Shevchenko attached to it. A headline grabbing mix of tits and feminist sloganeering.

    If you watch Australian director Kitty Green’s sympathetic documentary “Ukraine is Not a Brothel” a guy called Victor Svyatski shows up and Green eventually puts two and two together that Femen was a brothel for this guy. Here’s the Svengali who actually started AgitPorn as a graduate degree project with a girl he wanted to fuck. He bears an uncanny family resemblance to Zelenskyy in certain respects. “uh oh” I thought, “What’s all this? better hit early life!” Lo and behold every fucking time! He might well be Jewish. Only Muslim sources seem, to have realized how Victor Svyatski may have an ethnic agenda going to defile Ukrainian women…even then they are being coy in the articles. Not so in the comments section.

    https://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-femens-assault-on-muslim-women/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/9/4/man-exposed-as-topless-protest-group-founder

    https://orthochristian.com/64045.html

    There is something odd stirring in Ukriane their “Our Jews”

    Femen is a fascinating Ukrainian cultural phenomenon. The German branch founded by Alexandra Shevchenko is notorious.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femen

  153. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @LatW

    I'm not a fan of Greasy William's pro-Russian and anti-American stance either, I think he's seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent, but I don't think any of that can be reduced to his Jewishness. I think your theory of "Jewishness" is trying to do a little bit too much explanatory labor :) (where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness)

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest - which as you probably know, is not at all uncommon among American Jews although typically from the leftist angle - should suggest that politics can't be entirely a function of ethnicity, but ideology must be conceded a significant role. Indeed, Whites seem rather to be going against their ethnic self-interest of late also :)

    He's also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person - says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism (his one position I respect), and waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression

    And while your description of Zelensky's motivations don't paint him in the worst light, I think the emphasis on calculating self-interest sans principle - that his loyalty is merely a function of Ukraine offering him a better field of for his talents considering his particular limitations than America, as if that has to be the main reason that a Jew doesn't end up in America - is rather inadequate as an explanation for taking the kinds of risks he has, and a limitation of your theory of reducing politics to ethnic self-interest.

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.

    But anyways, your positions are yours to take, so feel free to think as you like :)

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.

    And I agree the Jewish thing is rather boring for the most part except insofar in certain of it's sociological aspects (it can shed light on general human will to power psychology, etc), but as politics, it's dull.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    He’s also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person – says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism

    I have a completely different type of anti nationalism than liberals have. I’m not a Globalist, I’m just opposed to militant nationalism, or ultra nationalism if you want to call it that. I don’t care about stuff like racial/ethnic purity but I don’t have a problem with people who do. I don’t see ultra nationalism or racism as immoral, I see them as stupid.

    waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression

    It’s not my depression, it’s that the information coming out of the conflict zone is so contradictory and we don’t have any historical precedents for this type of war. For a long time I was convinced that Russia was winning big time, largely because I completely ignored all mainstream Western sources because I just assumed they were lying about everything. Now I’m consuming a wider variety of sources and things become only more unclear to me with time.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Greasy William


    I have a completely different type of anti nationalism than liberals have. I’m not a Globalist, I’m just opposed to militant nationalism, or ultra nationalism if you want to call it that. I don’t care about stuff like racial/ethnic purity but I don’t have a problem with people who do. I don’t see ultra nationalism or racism as immoral, I see them as stupid.
     
    Fair enough.

    As for stupidity, I think ethnic nationalism can be strategically smart or strategically stupid - especially for an elite - depending on particular circumstances, as I sketched briefly in my other comment.

    As for morality, I actually do think caring about racial purity is immoral and spiritually limited - however, I think people on that level should not be coerced or bullied into thinking otherwise, but permitted to live through their own particular karma. They should be gently educated perhaps but they have their own spiritual issues to work through at their pace.

    I vastly prefer allegiance to a "spiritual community" over a racial or ethnic community - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists - and even here, I favor not exclucivism and seperation but amicable coexistence in relatively close proximity and rich cultural exchange.

    But that's just me :)

    As for the war, I don't think the info is that confusing - obviously, Russia is too weak to achieve anything significant, and Ukraine isn't going to be conquering Moscow anytime soon.

    Of course, anything could happen and the future is hardly written in stone.
  154. @Ivashka the fool
    @Jazman


    Couple more years they will teach kids Russians opened Auschwitz
     
    Russians opened the gates of Auschwitz.

    Where did you get this 5,5 million info from ?

    Replies: @Jazman

    I read it on one Polish Facebook page it is bs just joking about crazy Poles

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Jazman

    It is even worse, the Poles know the details. They are quite good, unlike common Westerners, at knowing what happened, who killed who, etc... Then something weird happens to them, like in a diseased mind full of uncontrollable hatred they deny the obvious, create twisted one-sided narratives, mix timelines, selectively emotionalize past events and omit or minimize other events, etc...

    It becomes an obsession, a mental siege where their painful myths must rule and "Russians" must be the devils (often the only ones). Maybe it is something religious in their feverish papist minds, they are fighting the satan from the east. They mostly loose and that makes it very unreal and sad.

    In a generation - if they are still around - Poles will flatly claim that 'Russia attacked them out of the blue in 1939', murdered millions, and in 1944 the saintly Anglos with Polish heroic resistance liberated them (from whom?), only to be enslaved by satanic Soviet-Russian forces from the deracinated east. That will be the story and they will make Brussels repeat it and shed tears together...

    This is not 'history' or 'country', it is self-therapy for non-functional people. The Polish self-pity is always right under the surface. Like a pious hysterical maiden they are always the victims of the Asiatic brute ...Let's relocate them somewhere north-west closer to the Anglo heaven, maybe Greenland?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  155. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    I had never heard of him, I just looked him up. He seems to be more an Ayn Rand type whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don't think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).

    Also, my main interest in libertarianism is far and away monetary theory, which is not the focus of the Rand/Friedman types at all. I would prefer an economy structured like the Inca Empire to one structured like Singapore because an economy with dishonest money is not truly "free" at all, whereas the Incas and Aztecs did in fact have free economies even though there was heavy state involvement.

    In fact, I have a radical theory that basically all political problems result from bad monetary policy. So whereas I used to advocate for a genocidal civil war as the only way to get rid of white liberals and GloboHomo, I now believe that GloboHomo will resolve itself when the current fiat monetary regime dies.

    Replies: @LatW, @Barbarossa

    whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don’t think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).

    Do you even understand how absolutely insane and chaos induced this sounds? It’s not even moral relativism, but something even crazier than that. Being ideologically inconsistent like that just allows you to manipulate – maybe that’s why you are that way.

    Now I no longer remember in what context you brought up that you are a “right winger”. It definitely wasn’t the monetary aspect.

    that the Russians would be willing to work with him, whereas Putin clearly wants Zelensky out

    I thought you said he should be out, I must’ve misunderstood. The Russians would assassinate him, if they could (but that’s beside the point).

    That said, I don’t buy the Ukraine war crimes propaganda and I suspect that the Ukrainians have committed more war crimes than have the Russians

    You suspect, you do not know. And you choose to close your eyes to what is known to the whole world (Russian war crimes).

    As to GloboHomo, you are supporting the imposition of direct and immediate, extremely violent and sadistic tyranny upon a free people, including completely innocent women and children, because you do not want the mystical GloboHomo to spread an extra thousand kilometers, into territory, where most likely it would not even thrive and into territory that is none of your business to mull about. This justifies murder of little girls for you and torture of innocent people. The deaths of countless attractive people at the dawn of their life. Needless suffering of elders. Do you even realize what you’re advocating? Instead of just “being conflicted”, as you say, you need to ask some very deep, serious questions to yourself. You are basically saying this is ok.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    Why are you arguing with a Jew here? Why are you supporting a Jewish regime down there?

    These kikes get to walk away from all the fights they start among their hosts.

  156. @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As an apostate, Zelensky is highly offensive to observant Jews.

    Lord Voldemort Volodymyr the Anti-Semite gave a highly offensive speech before the Knesset. (1)


    Likud MK Yuval Steinitz said it “borders on Holocaust denial.”

    “War is always a terrible thing… but every comparison between a regular war, as difficult as it is, and the extermination of millions of Jews in gas chambers in the framework of the Final Solution is a complete distortion of history,” he said in a statement.

    A number of Religious Zionism MKs also criticized Zelensky, with the far-right opposition party’s leader, Bezalel Smotrich, slamming the Holocaust comparisons and accusing the Ukrainian leader of trying “to rewrite history and erase the involvement of the Ukrainian people in the extermination of Jews.”

    Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rotman rejected Zelensky’s request that Israel treat Ukrainians the same way Zelensky claimed Ukraine treated Jews during the Holocaust.

     

    Given the extreme and repeated nature of Zelensky's transgression, it must have been an intentional insult. As a result Likud members loathe him. The religious parties are even more repulsed by Anti-Semite Zelensky.

    As a moderate, Netanyahu offered an olive branch to Zelensky. This did not go well: (2)

    Netanyahu, who was sworn in as prime minister on Thursday, called Zelensky as part of a series of phone calls with leaders of some countries that had previously voted in favor of the resolution. Israel wanted them to change their votes and oppose the resolution or at least abstain, a senior Israeli official told Axios.
    ...
    According to the Ukrainian official, Zelensky didn’t like the answer and didn’t agree to vote against the resolution or abstain. Instead, he instructed Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN to not attend the vote.
     
    Zelensky's open disdain for indigenous Palestinian Jews has driven Russia and Jewish Palestine closer together.

    All one can do when someone floats "Zelensky is a Jewish plot" is a great deal of pointing and laughing. It is so absurd that no one with even minimal analytic capability will bite on that lure of unalloyed crazy.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-lawmakers-tear-into-zelensky-for-holocaust-comparisons-in-knesset-speech/

    (2) https://www.axios.com/2022/12/31/netanyahu-zelensky-ukraine-israel-occupation-un-icj

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    We’re probably not going to agree A123 – this particular indigenous Palestinian Jew supports Ukraine, on the whole, and despises Putin 🙂

    (Pssst, I don’t want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all)

    But thanks for your comment, and I generally enjoy your quirky commentary – the humor post was good this time.

    • Replies: @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Pssst, I don’t want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all
     
    Meretz and Labour/Gesher received about 7% of the vote in the last election. So, it is believable that you are in a tiny sliver minority. Why would you want to abandon the Golan and Jerusalem to Jihadist conquistadors?

    I do not want to give you are heart attack. But... Do realise that exceedingly few Indigenous Jews agree with you? Are you a traitorous B'Teslem stooge?

    PEACE 😇
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Palestinian Jew
     
    Pfui.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  157. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don’t think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).
     
    Do you even understand how absolutely insane and chaos induced this sounds? It's not even moral relativism, but something even crazier than that. Being ideologically inconsistent like that just allows you to manipulate - maybe that's why you are that way.

    Now I no longer remember in what context you brought up that you are a "right winger". It definitely wasn't the monetary aspect.

    that the Russians would be willing to work with him, whereas Putin clearly wants Zelensky out
     
    I thought you said he should be out, I must've misunderstood. The Russians would assassinate him, if they could (but that's beside the point).

    That said, I don’t buy the Ukraine war crimes propaganda and I suspect that the Ukrainians have committed more war crimes than have the Russians
     
    You suspect, you do not know. And you choose to close your eyes to what is known to the whole world (Russian war crimes).

    As to GloboHomo, you are supporting the imposition of direct and immediate, extremely violent and sadistic tyranny upon a free people, including completely innocent women and children, because you do not want the mystical GloboHomo to spread an extra thousand kilometers, into territory, where most likely it would not even thrive and into territory that is none of your business to mull about. This justifies murder of little girls for you and torture of innocent people. The deaths of countless attractive people at the dawn of their life. Needless suffering of elders. Do you even realize what you're advocating? Instead of just "being conflicted", as you say, you need to ask some very deep, serious questions to yourself. You are basically saying this is ok.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Why are you arguing with a Jew here? Why are you supporting a Jewish regime down there?

    These kikes get to walk away from all the fights they start among their hosts.

  158. This justifies murder of little girls for you and torture of innocent people. The deaths of countless attractive people at the dawn of their life. Needless suffering of elders. Do you even realize what you’re advocating? Instead of just “being conflicted”, as you say, you need to ask some very deep, serious questions to yourself. You are basically saying this is ok.

    I’m not. You can see in my post history that I have said that it is criminal that Israel has not publicly and strongly condemned the Russian invasion. What’s happening to Ukraine is wrong, but that doesn’t make me hate the United States any less.

    I’m not and never have advocated for Russia in this war, unless you mean advocating for a negotiated settlement, which will save many lives in both nations.

    Do you even understand how absolutely insane and chaos induced this sounds? It’s not even moral relativism, but something even crazier than that.

    So you think that the women who have abortions should be put in jail? What about women who deliberately induce a miscarriage? What about women who drink or do drugs when pregnant? What about women who have abortions that are medically necessary? How would you determine if the abortion was necessary or not? What if one doctor says the abortion is necessary but another doctor disagrees? What about women who have been raped?

  159. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    I had never heard of him, I just looked him up. He seems to be more an Ayn Rand type whereas I subscribe to a strict, biblical morality. I just don't think the state should be involved in enforcing it (for example, I think elective abortion is murder but I also think that it should be legal all the way up until the 9th month).

    Also, my main interest in libertarianism is far and away monetary theory, which is not the focus of the Rand/Friedman types at all. I would prefer an economy structured like the Inca Empire to one structured like Singapore because an economy with dishonest money is not truly "free" at all, whereas the Incas and Aztecs did in fact have free economies even though there was heavy state involvement.

    In fact, I have a radical theory that basically all political problems result from bad monetary policy. So whereas I used to advocate for a genocidal civil war as the only way to get rid of white liberals and GloboHomo, I now believe that GloboHomo will resolve itself when the current fiat monetary regime dies.

    Replies: @LatW, @Barbarossa

    all political problems result from bad monetary policy.

    This is maybe not too far off. Wokeism and much of general progressivism basically boils down to the fact that a tragic excess of easy calories gives people time and energy to think up silly BS that is utterly disconnected from reality.

    In a somewhat harsher world folks would have a lot less energy to worry about things like which made up gender perfectly describes them.

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Barbarossa

    You are right that we live in decadent times because we basically can afford decadent times. But one should remember that a) money is just a medium of exchange and debt tender b) today's fiat is basically immaterial and can be summoned from thin air c) that it is therefore basically information and d) therefore it is in a sense spiritual. Hence all bad policies are spiritually flawed, monetary policy is just being one of these. And yeah, some would say that monetary reductionist attitudes can be caricaturized as typically Jewish...

  160. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    It is actually an interesting topic. What exactly does define someone as being ideologically far right. Superficially it might seem obvious, but I am not sure it is.
     
    I agree - both that it is an interesting topic and that it is hard to pin down. The closer one looks, the harder it gets to define (it is epistemologically problematic, if one can put it that way). Which right wing ideologies are the ones that match or are consistent with what might call a right wing ethos or right wing thinking on all parameters - economic, social, political. They vary a lot and often deviate from what could be considered a consistently radical right wing ideology.

    For instance, do you believe accelerationists are far right?
     
    I don't know enough about it, but it seems to have both leftist and right wing undercurrents. It might be too broad to define, probably one narrow part of it is definitely far right. I think in this case the approach to it is instrumental, not so much a worldview. It is peculiar that something such as this would derive originally from Marxism (but then again maybe not, if you consider the other ideologies and their fruits or implementation that sprung from Marxism). It may be that accelerationism was not originally right wing, but that right wingers picked it up and instrumentalized it?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I think I should have been more precise and write from the outset that I was referring to the right wing accelerationists, not their left wing counterparts. Because you are right (pun intended) there are the two subtypes of accelerationism : the neomarxist and the NRx (for lack of a better description).

    What I wanted to emphasize was that while writing to Greasy, you pointed out that a true right winger would fight for preservation of something (Nazis for the preservation of “the Arian race”, right wing Zionists for the preservation of “the Jewish people” etc.) However, despite being described as far right, a Boogaloo Boy would not care for preservation of anything because he would see everything as ultimately corrupt. Peak Kali Yuga frens (sic) as would say some (mostly young) Alt Right dissidents on teh internets (sic).

    When Greasy writes that “there is nothing worth preserving in America” he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types. This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of “good old” American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him). Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society. And I know that they’re not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum. Even the kids who are not political at all are often only interested in hedonism and consumerism which is also existentially extreme when it comes to a certain point. There does seem not much idealism left.

    The “old ways” of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the “cultural Marxist” are to the Left what the “Alt Right” are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    The negative dialectic seems to have become very powerful in Western societies, clearly in Critical Theory and what has emerged from that, but in other areas as well.

    Afaik opinion polls keep detecting major splits down gender lines on political issues, sometimes they can be really large, 20, 30 points and more. Not the best sign for the future.

    The destructive inclination on the alt right... reminds me of the little videos and clips the younger followers of BAP produce:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq6zJ3zdofo

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    the NRx
     
    The NRx is interesting purely to explore (safely from a distance) and maybe get some occassional exciting sensations. But it's not something that a large enough pool of people would adopt to have impact. But the very idea of the Dark Enlightenment is to have impact with small, but radical actions. This is something to be pondered but it's not a thing to be discussed online (or openly).

    Alt Right dissidents
     
    If the Alt Right dissidents want to just be contrarians or be in a permanent state of struggle without building anything, that's their choice (I will agree that some of them want to build something but are not allowed to, however, many don't, they just want to be antagonistic and adversarial). Back a few years ago there was a very attractive group, the Rise Above group in CA. It would appear outwardly that they had no positive program and just wanted to cause altercations, but they actually did - they created a certain very healthy aesthetic and had some discipline (athletic culture). But of course, they were stifled at the very root. Because their approach was combative (it was understandable, but such won't be allowed). But it was an attractive group that, had they worked quietly, maybe would have built something.

    When Greasy writes that “there is nothing worth preserving in America” he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types.
     
    Not entirely. Many of the Alt Right types wanted something more conservative, just couldn't get it. I don't know this for sure, but I think someone like this Nick Fuentes guy is quite genuine in describing the kind of society he would want to live in. If he had the kind of society that he yearns for, he probably wouldn't call women "femoids", he would behave conservatively and have a normal life. But maybe I'm wrong (and he's another contrarian on principle).

    The issue I found with Greasy is that he doesn't appear to be too invested in anything. There are great things in America worth preserving (and you will even find people who will do it), but he doesn't seem to see those things or he may not be bothered to live that way. Would Greasy be happy if the woke were gone one day? I think he would find something else to complain about. But again, I may be wrong. Some people are contrarians for the purpose of being that way, eternal oppositioners. I must admit, I like this quality, but the saner part of me always asks for something more positive, creative. By positive I do not mean something "nice", but something that is pro-actively built up with a clear vision behind it.

    Plus, I don't know how these approaches can co-exist in a right wing environment, when on the one hand you have more conservative types who are invested in society (I know, the so called "cuckservatives"), but also these other more destructive types.

    So in generel, accelerationism is worth while the attention. But for me someone more mellow such as Guillaume Faye would probably be more appealing. So accelerationism might be ok if the West were to become completely unsalvageable, or it might be ok in Russia (that system, too, of old KGBshniks is rotten to the core).

    But I would not support accelerationism within the territory of the Intermarium (including Ukraine) and not in Scandinavia (Scandinavia just needs stricter immigration laws).


    This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of “good old” American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.
     
    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism. Also, some of these Right wing types in fact justify their actions with the "fight for the old values". Maybe they just use them as a pretext. I have thought about this quite a bit in fact, but it is not to be discussed openly.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him).
     
    Yes, there are some interesting things with Gen Z. But they are probably too young still, at that age some kids are into such ideas. What I have noticed anecdotally though in the US and Canada, is that the Gen Z girls tend to veer even more left than let's say Millennial women, and the boys are either secular leftists or far right. How are they going to live together in the future? I think this should be avoided in the Intermarium.

    But, yes, boys are more receptive to right wing ideas, military stuff, etc. Which I agree, feels great to see. It's amazing how early the boys catch on to these things. But it's important to direct them to be kind. So that everything is in balance.


    Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society.
     
    It might be that it is hard for many kids to accept the more confusing and negative sides of today's society, some kids opt out. I've seen some teenagers take that route.

    And I know that they’re not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum.
     
    Right, but keep in mind that some of them will change and stabilize as they grow up.

    There does seem not much idealism left.
     
    Maybe... but in most societies, only a certain fraction of people are true idealists. But it is true that the society in the West is quite atomized, polarized. But there are new ideals such as "green living".

    The “old ways” of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the “cultural Marxist” are to the Left what the “Alt Right” are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?
     

    If they keep growing and no longer remain on the margins, then maybe.

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    This is what normal right wing ideology is based on. The love of one's own. And it can even be love of humanity, because a great far right leader will support those, of any nationality, who just want to live according to their roots and culture, in their own God given home.

    And, of course, a positive program is always needed. Even someone such as Codreanu, in his group, there were, what one could consider, people using accelerationist methods (in those days). But he always had a positive component as well. The core values were there.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Ivashka the fool

  161. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    We're probably not going to agree A123 - this particular indigenous Palestinian Jew supports Ukraine, on the whole, and despises Putin :)

    (Pssst, I don't want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all)

    But thanks for your comment, and I generally enjoy your quirky commentary - the humor post was good this time.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Pssst, I don’t want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all

    Meretz and Labour/Gesher received about 7% of the vote in the last election. So, it is believable that you are in a tiny sliver minority. Why would you want to abandon the Golan and Jerusalem to Jihadist conquistadors?

    I do not want to give you are heart attack. But… Do realise that exceedingly few Indigenous Jews agree with you? Are you a traitorous B’Teslem stooge?

    PEACE 😇

  162. I think he’s seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent

    It’s not so much that they’re abhorrent but that they are incoherent. I don’t even care enough.

    where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness

    Yes, and I noted that this can often be the case.

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest

    I wasn’t trying to make a point about it, I was just warning him – be careful what you wish for.
    Russians have a saying – с жиру беситься. It means that someone is too spoiled to realize how good they actually have it. Nobody out there is going to baby him the way that the US does. And then he thinks it’s ok to impose tyranny on others for things he can’t be bothered himself to achieve (get rid of the woke).

    on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression

    It is clear that his attitude towards this conflict is driven to a large extent by some kind of anxiety – which, by the way, is not a sin, many people struggle with it (I guess mental illness should be de-stigmatized in the era of full access to the internet… jk, lol).

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.

    Wrong. I do not reduce politics to ethnicity, but I do take ethnicity into account when judging someone’s politics. Not all the time, but in certain instances. I may be wrong or right at any given time, but I’m not as dumb as you posit.

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.

    I agree, it has gone too far, and I find it very disheartening that Ukraine, with all the tragedy that she has had to endure, is being used in all these ideological struggles. These guys are only adding to the heaviness of the Jesus’ cross during the Golgatha.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they’re basically…..Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they’re nationalist.

    No, that’s not what I said (maybe others did here, but not I). I admire Israel. What I did was basically tell a Jewish guy “Who are you to tell Gentiles to disband their militias”. That’s all.

    Also, I really dislike the principle of “nationalism for me but not for thee”. Which is prevalent among both Jews and the pro-Russian American right wingers (and West Euros).

    One important thing though that I’m getting from this conversation with Greasy is that liberals in the US might indeed be a bit of a problem – I mean, what do you think could alleviate his pain from his inevitable interactions with them? He is unable to develop indifference towards them. Maybe you can help him.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @LatW

    Okay, fair comment.


    No, that’s not what I said (maybe others did here, but not I). I admire Israel. What I did was basically tell a Jewish guy “Who are you to tell Gentiles to disband their militias”. That’s all.
     
    I didn't mean you here, just the general Unz population of commenters. You're actually pretty consistent as a nationalist who admires Israel.
  163. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William


    all political problems result from bad monetary policy.
     
    This is maybe not too far off. Wokeism and much of general progressivism basically boils down to the fact that a tragic excess of easy calories gives people time and energy to think up silly BS that is utterly disconnected from reality.

    In a somewhat harsher world folks would have a lot less energy to worry about things like which made up gender perfectly describes them.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    You are right that we live in decadent times because we basically can afford decadent times. But one should remember that a) money is just a medium of exchange and debt tender b) today’s fiat is basically immaterial and can be summoned from thin air c) that it is therefore basically information and d) therefore it is in a sense spiritual. Hence all bad policies are spiritually flawed, monetary policy is just being one of these. And yeah, some would say that monetary reductionist attitudes can be caricaturized as typically Jewish…

    • Agree: Beckow
  164. Don’t know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.

    [MORE]

    I say it because I recently looked at old pictures of a few places I knew and was shocked to see no fences. I mean, like there’d be a picture of one house with no fence and in the same shot you could see that six houses that now have fences didn’t have them. And I’ve seen more than one picture and more than one town like that.

    Not even suggesting it is necessarily about crime. These are still relatively good towns. But it must mean something. Atomization, maybe.

    I suppose when one person puts up a fence, it must really encourage others to do the same.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    Don’t know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.
     
    To my eye, lot size versus house size for new construction has packed more building on less space. Most people do not want others looking inside their house except for the front windows. This makes fencing essential. When there was more physical separation, well placed trees and shrubs fixed the sight line issue.

    Lawsuits, zoning, and HOA restrictions also play a role. Having a trampoline or pool requires fencing. It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Large concrete fences are the norm within Phoenix between neighboring houses. It's been like this since at least the 197o's. Most enjoy the privacy that such fences provide, it's nice when you need to go outdoors quickly and you're not quite dressed up to make the trip. :-) Also, by adding a few exotic plants to your private area, it's easy to create your own botanical garden, so you don't have to miss out on any pleasant landscaping views. Tends to keep the sound levels down too. It's kind of like living in a gated community, except you don't have to pay any exorbitant fees. Property taxes within Phoenix are some of the lowest in the country.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/b1/57/c3b15747f1ff116ab6f4236f64becb20.jpg

    Replies: @AP

  165. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    We're probably not going to agree A123 - this particular indigenous Palestinian Jew supports Ukraine, on the whole, and despises Putin :)

    (Pssst, I don't want to give you a heart attack, but this Indigenous Palestinian Jew also does not like Trump. At all)

    But thanks for your comment, and I generally enjoy your quirky commentary - the humor post was good this time.

    Replies: @A123, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Palestinian Jew

    Pfui.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    He's being playful. He usually is. That's a mask he feels the need wearing. He has probably been hurt a lot and needs protection (I am doing the Laxa thing here).

    🙃

  166. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Palestinian Jew
     
    Pfui.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    He’s being playful. He usually is. That’s a mask he feels the need wearing. He has probably been hurt a lot and needs protection (I am doing the Laxa thing here).

    🙃

  167. The F-22 Raptor scored its first air to air kill yesterday.

    US used a fifth generation missile (AIM 9X) launched from a fifth generation fighter to shoot down a Chinese balloon!!They succeeded in their first attempt.

    Congratulations to all Americans!This is the first air to air kill of a stealth fighter anywhere!! USA USA USA

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Vishnugupta

    Wonder whether the Chinese balloon was using hydrogen.

    Haven't followed this stuff very closely, but I recall hearing that the US military was using helium for some drone blimps about 7-8 years ago, and I thought that was surprising. Maybe, there is a rational for it. (Harder to shoot down? Easier to store the gas?) But I almost feel like the Hindenburg caused a prejudice against hydrogen.

    Lots of zeppelins crashed in WWI without exploding in flames.

    IMO, the thing to do would be to make the components as cheap as possible, and the tenders robotic and use hydrogen.

  168. @Vishnugupta
    The F-22 Raptor scored its first air to air kill yesterday.

    US used a fifth generation missile (AIM 9X) launched from a fifth generation fighter to shoot down a Chinese balloon!!They succeeded in their first attempt.

    Congratulations to all Americans!This is the first air to air kill of a stealth fighter anywhere!! USA USA USA

    Replies: @songbird

    Wonder whether the Chinese balloon was using hydrogen.

    Haven’t followed this stuff very closely, but I recall hearing that the US military was using helium for some drone blimps about 7-8 years ago, and I thought that was surprising. Maybe, there is a rational for it. (Harder to shoot down? Easier to store the gas?) But I almost feel like the Hindenburg caused a prejudice against hydrogen.

    Lots of zeppelins crashed in WWI without exploding in flames.

    IMO, the thing to do would be to make the components as cheap as possible, and the tenders robotic and use hydrogen.

  169. china-russia-all-the-way says:
    @LatW
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    Both you and the user from Lithuania are in denial about the powerful cultural forces shaping societies
     
    Your newly founded concern about Eastern European nations such as Lithuania is quite strange. You did not care about the survival or the wellbeing of the Lithuanian nation back when they were invaded and shoved in trains to be deported, you didn't care about them in the early 1990s, when they, fresh out of the USSR, had to compete with cheap Chinese labor globally, you didn't even care about them for the last 30 years when they didn't always have it easy at all times.

    But somehow now you have started to care. How selfless of you! Your concern is so touching.

    Not.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way

    I don’t care about the wellbeing of Lithuania and I don’t pretend to. Let’s get that out of the way of this conversation because it is not relevant to the important point.

    The important point is there are “powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.”

    Do you agree or reject the contention?

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @LatW
    @china-russia-all-the-way


    I don’t care about the wellbeing of Lithuania and I don’t pretend to.
     
    I know. That's why I asked you a rhetorical question because I saw on several ocassions that you expressed this deep concern for the racial future of that region. This is why I asked, rhetorically, what drives your deep concern for these peoples, when we never heard from you when we really needed help.

    The important point is there are “powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.”
     
    I do not agree with the categorical stance expressed here - I believe that there is quite bit of freedom and wiggle room left. Things are great in places like Lithuania and Poland right now. Life is quite good.
  170. @Jazman
    @Ivashka the fool

    I read it on one Polish Facebook page it is bs just joking about crazy Poles

    Replies: @Beckow

    It is even worse, the Poles know the details. They are quite good, unlike common Westerners, at knowing what happened, who killed who, etc… Then something weird happens to them, like in a diseased mind full of uncontrollable hatred they deny the obvious, create twisted one-sided narratives, mix timelines, selectively emotionalize past events and omit or minimize other events, etc…

    It becomes an obsession, a mental siege where their painful myths must rule and “Russians” must be the devils (often the only ones). Maybe it is something religious in their feverish papist minds, they are fighting the satan from the east. They mostly loose and that makes it very unreal and sad.

    In a generation – if they are still around – Poles will flatly claim that ‘Russia attacked them out of the blue in 1939‘, murdered millions, and in 1944 the saintly Anglos with Polish heroic resistance liberated them (from whom?), only to be enslaved by satanic Soviet-Russian forces from the deracinated east. That will be the story and they will make Brussels repeat it and shed tears together…

    This is not ‘history’ or ‘country’, it is self-therapy for non-functional people. The Polish self-pity is always right under the surface. Like a pious hysterical maiden they are always the victims of the Asiatic brute …Let’s relocate them somewhere north-west closer to the Anglo heaven, maybe Greenland?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow

    One of my good Polish acquaintances once candidly admitted that (and I cite him) "when it comes to Russians, we have a historical complex". He was very surprised to learn that Poles are not really seen as important in Russia and that even their taking of Moscow during the Great Troubles is talked about in a kind of detached manner as someone would talk about some distant history that has no influence on today's affairs.

    What is still discussed with some passion in Russia is the many situations when Russia was fractured along internal opposition lines, all the religious schisms, rebellions and civil conflicts it experienced, including of course in the twentieth century. For what it's worth, many Russians are aware of and acknowledge the fact that they are more than often their own worst enemy. Perhaps one day Poles would also come to this point of realization.

    Perhaps it will happen after the coming war with Russia that seems to be on the agenda of the Polish elites.

  171. @A123
    @Beckow


    I am assuming that you are objecting to treaties and not to US promises
     
    The U.S. cannot promise, that is not a Constitutional power. Therefore, the phrase "US promises" is gibberish. It has less meaning than mumsy borogroves.

    A specific individual can make a promise. That promise only applies to that person. Therefore, if Not-The-President Biden makes a promise it only applies to him and his administration. No President can bind future ones without a Senate ratified Treaty.

    US has openly said that its ‘promises’ are worthless, e.g. not to expand Nato to Russia’s borders.
     
    What treaty states that NATO cannot be expanded? No treaty = no promise

    If you want to say that Bush lied... OK, I can see that position. However, a Bush promise is not a U.S. promise.

    The treaties US broke (or left unilaterally):
     
    Exercising the right to leave a treaty is 100% different than breaking it. The reason why well crafted treaties have exit provisions with timing and notice periods is so that orderly disengagement is possible. Weapon treaties that do not include China are excellent examples of concepts that rest on geopolitical assumptions that are no longer valid.

    the Iran nuclear agreement,
     
    Do you mean JCPOA, which was never Senate ratified? If so, JCPOA was never binding.

    Even worse, sociopath Khamenei abrogated JCPOA while Obama was still in office by lying during the roll out declarations. What was at best "Obama's promise" was effectively dead long before Trump was sworn in. All Trump did was spotlight a truth that everyone already knew. Khamenei breaks his word.

    US also broke UN Charter (that they wrote themselves) by militarily attacking UN members from Serbia to Iraq, Syria, Libya. They simply say “we can do it, shut up’.
     
    This is sort of a 'special case' as the underlying documents are a colossal train wreck. The UN was hastily slapped together on the basis of optimism, without concern to actual workability.

    Various powers, such as the ability to Declare War, are enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. They cannot be delegated, for example to the UN, without a formal Amendment. Therefore, portions of the UN Charter are unconstitutional. It should never have been signed or ratified. Warnings about these issues were given at the time. Sadly, those concerns were ignored.

    The smart choice for the world would be dissolving the UN/NWO as a failure. It is doing more harm than good. Until that happens the U.S. is tangled, in knots that it tied, by signing the instrument of stupidity. It can only follow the parts of the UN Charter that are consistent with the U.S. Constitution.

    This is the same sort of bind that Germany discovered when its high court over turned the EU on Constitutional grounds. (1)

    *Germany decides*. That is the message the country's Constitutional Court sent to the European Union on Tuesday as it delivered a landmark ruling on the legality of the European Central Bank's bond-buying programs, a decision many observers say challenges both the independence of the ECB and the authority of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU).
     
    Sovereign nations are judicially senior to multinational bodies. This point is frequently missed, or conveniently ignored, when looking at international matters, such as the UN/NWO and the EU.

    It comes back to the same point I made about WTO/GATT. If you look at transgressions strictly, you will find that almost every country on the planet violates treaties -- No one is agreement capable. There is a grain of truth to that "realpolitik", and the U.S. is in no way special or singular in this regard.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.politico.eu/article/german-court-lays-down-eu-law/

    Replies: @Beckow

    Therefore, the phrase “US promises” is gibberish.

    Precisely, so why talk at all? Among honorable people promises are kept, but you think honor is gibberish and the rest of the world knows.

    Whatever irrelevant, internal process reasons you come up with, Washington is simply not agreement-capable. ‘Presidents change’, sure, so there is no value in negotiating with a temporary place-holder. There are ‘exit clauses’, yeah, so there really is no binding anything…rules, ‘ratified or not’, ‘others also cheat!’….you are making my point that diplomacy with people who can’t make promises or agreements they will keep is pointless. So we are back to resolving issues with wars.

    Also your Iran obsession is silly and borders on pathological. Let go of it, it makes you sound deranged. Or if you can’t, go and invade, they have a long shoreline, take lengthy breaks, don’t maintain well, maybe you will get lucky. Then what? maybe minding your own business would be better…

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    Precisely, so why talk at all?
     
    Because America is treaty capable and thus agreement capable. This does require bringing 2/3 of the Senate along for any long lasting deal.

    Among honorable people promises are kept, but you think honor is gibberish and the rest of the world knows.
     
    Honorable people, really anyone with the tiniest smidgen of common sense, realize there are limits. Only those without honour, such as yourself, fail to see those boundaries.

    Let me illustrate:

    • Your six year old child "promises" your house away. Do you abandon your property? Of course not. Your child does not have the authority to make "promises" that are beyond his legal capacity.

    Now bring that thought process to a direct parallel scenario:

    • A President "promises" to bind future administration without a treaty. Is that lie enforceable? Of course not. An individual President does not have the authority to make "promises" that are beyond his legal capacity.

    Everyone knows the limits that bind a U.S. President. You dishonour yourself by pretending these explicit rules of civilized behaviour do not exist.

    PEACE 😇
  172. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    I personally don't think Islam is healthy at the moment.

    I consider Jewish culture to be significantly unhealthy - at best, to have residual health that has not yet dissipated - and yet it is easily able to hold the entire Muslim world at bay. And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends. Ibn Kaldun thought the glory was passing from the Muslims already in the 12th century, and noted the growing vigor of the Franks.

    There probably is no genuine or robust health anywhere in the world now - at best, there is residual health and traces of health, which we should certainly learn from, but it would be folly to look at any culture existing now as in a good state. Of course, we should certainly learn from the beauty of the old Arab culture, as we should of all cultures.

    Even my example of the Japanese commitment to the surface beauty of life which betrays a deeper moral sensibility - this beauty is surely at least partially purchased by having America handle it's defense all these years.

    If Japan had to fend for itself and develop the "sharper" side of it's character, how much of this beauty would survive? Spiritually, perhaps the best thing for Japan was to have been defeated in the war, as one of the characters in an Ozu film I recently watched affirmed.

    To look to any existing culture would be to repeat out folly - instead, we should pick up all the strands of beauty and goodness remaining in existing cultures as well as from tradition, and unify them in a new synthesis.

    That's the task, not a return to the old or a turn to any current culture in wholesale form, which are all corrupted.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I personally don’t think Islam is healthy at the moment.

    Maybe there are different criteria for health, you could look at how far the Islamic world lives up to spiritual or moral ideals for example. But there used to be this idea that success in political terms was something more modest than that, even if it was a necessary precondition for the development of robust spiritual life.

    Two of the key criteria for political success used to be preserving peace and ensuring the survival of the population. Muslim countries are doing okay on one count, not so badly but perhaps could do better on the other. Euro countries (inc. North America etc.) might be better at securing peace (questionable?), at least for now, but there is a bigger question about guaranteeing the survival of their populations.

    And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends.

    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.
     
    They are connected. In Europe, at the onset of the 30 years war, from the point of view of the old vs young disbalance, the demographics were somewhat similar to those of the Islamic world today. It ended up in one of the worst European wars, followed by two centuries of expansionist emigration and colonization.

    As a side note, personally, I never discuss anything Islamic with a Jew or anything Jewish with a Muslim. The opinions would always be predictably biased and negative. Despite whatever Aaron pretends about him being detached from his Jewish identity, he's not. And it's all right, there is a Muslim saying about "returning to one's roots being preferable". One just needs being honest about it.
    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.

    For instance, some not very intelligent people think the Chinese elites don't import foreigners because they are loyal to their ethnic kin. In fact, the Chinese working population is perhaps the most docile, cowed, and hardest working in the world. Consequently, they are ruthlessly exploited to enrich their elite - there is no need to import foreigners.

    I guarantee you, if in the West Whites were willing to work the Chinese 9am-9pm, 6 days a week, with weak to nonexistent protections and rights, showing extreme deference to an elite that drives around in flashy cars, parties with beautiful girls, and lives in grand mansions, then Western elites would show "ethnic loyalty".

    In the West, the average man and woman demands a level of respect, safety, and a standard of living that makes him sadly rather unattractive to an elite. This is a problem that was noted beginning in the 19th century.

    At that time, it was beginning to be noted by many commentators for instance that the Chinese can significantly "underlive" White people, who demanded a much higher standard of living, and that this was the chief Chinese advantage as workers - he'd live in appalling conditions, accept a paltry wage, was docile and acquiescent, and work long hours.

    Likewise in the Muslim world, you have an extremely wealthy elite and an exploited, impoverished, and oppressed population on a scale inconceivable in the West - this isn't "preserving the population", this is an elite enriching itself as best it can. Look at Yahya to get a sense of the sheer contempt this wealthy elite feels for it's population and the importance it places on money as a marker of status.

    Moreover, Muslim lands are not economically dynamic or attractive to outsiders, so it's hard to say what the elite would do if there was demand to immigrate and it benefited them (actually, not that hard :) )

    You may point to the Gulf Arabs as countries where exceptions to the above rule - but these are countries whose wealth depends entirely on technical expertise that the natives cannot supply. In other words, the entire native population cannot compete with outsiders whose expertise is absolutely crucial to their wealth. So if they allowed immigration on an equal basis, the elites would quickly be dominated and supplanted and a new foreign elite arise, that could easily form an alliance with the workers if they treated them better. In this scenario, it makes most sense for the elites to actually be somewhat generous to the population and form a united front.

    So I think you right wingers who see "ethnic loyalty" and don't understand the power dynamics of these countries are rather touchingly naive :)

    If you look at countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, even Egypt, and you see "health" - I don't know what to say, really. I think you'd have to be an authoritarian or someone with exploitative elite tendencies themselves to see something worth emulating here.

    All that being said, I'm sure there are some good things about the Muslim world today that we can learn from.

    @ Ivashka - that's a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. "Motivated reasoning" often leads to much more acute insights than "objective" reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I'm not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

  173. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I personally don’t think Islam is healthy at the moment.
     
    Maybe there are different criteria for health, you could look at how far the Islamic world lives up to spiritual or moral ideals for example. But there used to be this idea that success in political terms was something more modest than that, even if it was a necessary precondition for the development of robust spiritual life.

    Two of the key criteria for political success used to be preserving peace and ensuring the survival of the population. Muslim countries are doing okay on one count, not so badly but perhaps could do better on the other. Euro countries (inc. North America etc.) might be better at securing peace (questionable?), at least for now, but there is a bigger question about guaranteeing the survival of their populations.

    And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends.
     
    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.

    They are connected. In Europe, at the onset of the 30 years war, from the point of view of the old vs young disbalance, the demographics were somewhat similar to those of the Islamic world today. It ended up in one of the worst European wars, followed by two centuries of expansionist emigration and colonization.

    As a side note, personally, I never discuss anything Islamic with a Jew or anything Jewish with a Muslim. The opinions would always be predictably biased and negative. Despite whatever Aaron pretends about him being detached from his Jewish identity, he’s not. And it’s all right, there is a Muslim saying about “returning to one’s roots being preferable”. One just needs being honest about it.

  174. @Beckow
    @Jazman

    It is even worse, the Poles know the details. They are quite good, unlike common Westerners, at knowing what happened, who killed who, etc... Then something weird happens to them, like in a diseased mind full of uncontrollable hatred they deny the obvious, create twisted one-sided narratives, mix timelines, selectively emotionalize past events and omit or minimize other events, etc...

    It becomes an obsession, a mental siege where their painful myths must rule and "Russians" must be the devils (often the only ones). Maybe it is something religious in their feverish papist minds, they are fighting the satan from the east. They mostly loose and that makes it very unreal and sad.

    In a generation - if they are still around - Poles will flatly claim that 'Russia attacked them out of the blue in 1939', murdered millions, and in 1944 the saintly Anglos with Polish heroic resistance liberated them (from whom?), only to be enslaved by satanic Soviet-Russian forces from the deracinated east. That will be the story and they will make Brussels repeat it and shed tears together...

    This is not 'history' or 'country', it is self-therapy for non-functional people. The Polish self-pity is always right under the surface. Like a pious hysterical maiden they are always the victims of the Asiatic brute ...Let's relocate them somewhere north-west closer to the Anglo heaven, maybe Greenland?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    One of my good Polish acquaintances once candidly admitted that (and I cite him) “when it comes to Russians, we have a historical complex”. He was very surprised to learn that Poles are not really seen as important in Russia and that even their taking of Moscow during the Great Troubles is talked about in a kind of detached manner as someone would talk about some distant history that has no influence on today’s affairs.

    What is still discussed with some passion in Russia is the many situations when Russia was fractured along internal opposition lines, all the religious schisms, rebellions and civil conflicts it experienced, including of course in the twentieth century. For what it’s worth, many Russians are aware of and acknowledge the fact that they are more than often their own worst enemy. Perhaps one day Poles would also come to this point of realization.

    Perhaps it will happen after the coming war with Russia that seems to be on the agenda of the Polish elites.

  175. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Individualism leading to autistic demographic suicide?

    White man’s burden exhaustion?
     

    I think Louis de Bonald once wrote something like 'The proclamation of the Rights of Man was a signal of desolation and death'.

    This came from the idea that the philosophy behind it seriously misunderstood human nature and implementing it would bring about social collapse. Given the demographic situation you describe, it doesn't seem impossible that he will be proved right. Though it is pretty surprising, especially if you grew up in the 'End of History' era.

    It might be fitting that Bonald was one of the leading members of what they used to call the 'theological school' of political science, when you look at the rise of the Muslim nations. Generally Islam seems to have been able to resist the principles of 1789 better than any European religion or ideology.


    It is kind of pathetic seeing the Eastern Slav and the Euros in general (including the ones in Americas) squabble and fight each other over relatively minor cultural issues, while their very existence by the end of this century is at risk.
     
    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    Maybe this is some kind of final spasm of energy from the revolutionary side as it faces the looming challenge of what it has brought about and promoted?

    There is a Russian saying that comes to mind: “the hunchback is straightened up by the grave”. The progressive need to personally face the dark side of the progress before they understand the conservative values. As long as the (mostly) middle class liberals are somewhat shielded from the outcome of their ideology, they will keep up with their nonsense.

    Once the middle class badly maimed by the ongoing societal transformation and their life ending up in dismal results, then some of them will start to think. But it will be too little too late and nobody will care anymore.

  176. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    I think I should have been more precise and write from the outset that I was referring to the right wing accelerationists, not their left wing counterparts. Because you are right (pun intended) there are the two subtypes of accelerationism : the neomarxist and the NRx (for lack of a better description).

    What I wanted to emphasize was that while writing to Greasy, you pointed out that a true right winger would fight for preservation of something (Nazis for the preservation of "the Arian race", right wing Zionists for the preservation of "the Jewish people" etc.) However, despite being described as far right, a Boogaloo Boy would not care for preservation of anything because he would see everything as ultimately corrupt. Peak Kali Yuga frens (sic) as would say some (mostly young) Alt Right dissidents on teh internets (sic).

    When Greasy writes that "there is nothing worth preserving in America" he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types. This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of "good old" American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him). Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society. And I know that they're not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum. Even the kids who are not political at all are often only interested in hedonism and consumerism which is also existentially extreme when it comes to a certain point. There does seem not much idealism left.

    The "old ways" of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the "cultural Marxist" are to the Left what the "Alt Right" are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one's ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LatW

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    The negative dialectic seems to have become very powerful in Western societies, clearly in Critical Theory and what has emerged from that, but in other areas as well.

    Afaik opinion polls keep detecting major splits down gender lines on political issues, sometimes they can be really large, 20, 30 points and more. Not the best sign for the future.

    The destructive inclination on the alt right… reminds me of the little videos and clips the younger followers of BAP produce:

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Yes the video above is quite representative. I think this is due to kids seeing that many among their parents generation are overtly materialistic and hedonistic. Propaganda can pretend otherwise, but many kids are not fooled by propaganda. They grow up somewhat despising the society they have been born in.

    They don't read newspapers, they don't watch TV, their outlook is based on the echo chambers they find themselves on the web, which is where they mostly interact with other kids all around the world. The gaming communities they are part of (especially boys, girls are less into this), are often quite politically incorrect. It's a place where they can vent up their frustrations and forget their anxieties. Memes are rapidly generated and exchanged on a large scale. And many (perhaps most) of these memes bear a negative outlook and a destructive "charge" towards today's society.

    https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/a8b269d66e8609ed2938c93ceb59d22f.jpg

    Kids still have the impression that they don't have much influence on the social system, but once they grow up, and if someone provides a focal point to their frustration, then turbulent times would be the inevitable outcome. Basically, we might end up with a Cultural Revolution meets Perestroika situation.

    I would rather avoid that. In my life I have had enough "interesting times" already.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Coconuts

    Sad. Ultimate nihilism taking over the world..."the times they are a changing" and not for the better!

    Replies: @sudden death

  177. @LatW

    I think he’s seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent
     
    It's not so much that they're abhorrent but that they are incoherent. I don't even care enough.


    where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness
     
    Yes, and I noted that this can often be the case.

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest
     
    I wasn't trying to make a point about it, I was just warning him - be careful what you wish for.
    Russians have a saying - с жиру беситься. It means that someone is too spoiled to realize how good they actually have it. Nobody out there is going to baby him the way that the US does. And then he thinks it's ok to impose tyranny on others for things he can't be bothered himself to achieve (get rid of the woke).

    on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression
     
    It is clear that his attitude towards this conflict is driven to a large extent by some kind of anxiety - which, by the way, is not a sin, many people struggle with it (I guess mental illness should be de-stigmatized in the era of full access to the internet... jk, lol).

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.
     
    Wrong. I do not reduce politics to ethnicity, but I do take ethnicity into account when judging someone's politics. Not all the time, but in certain instances. I may be wrong or right at any given time, but I'm not as dumb as you posit.

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.
     
    I agree, it has gone too far, and I find it very disheartening that Ukraine, with all the tragedy that she has had to endure, is being used in all these ideological struggles. These guys are only adding to the heaviness of the Jesus' cross during the Golgatha.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they’re basically…..Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they’re nationalist.
     
    No, that's not what I said (maybe others did here, but not I). I admire Israel. What I did was basically tell a Jewish guy "Who are you to tell Gentiles to disband their militias". That's all.

    Also, I really dislike the principle of "nationalism for me but not for thee". Which is prevalent among both Jews and the pro-Russian American right wingers (and West Euros).

    One important thing though that I'm getting from this conversation with Greasy is that liberals in the US might indeed be a bit of a problem - I mean, what do you think could alleviate his pain from his inevitable interactions with them? He is unable to develop indifference towards them. Maybe you can help him.

    Replies: @Yahya, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I admire Israel.

    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land – something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Your comment is odd to me. You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do, but what you believe some person called Morris wishes Israel had done.

    As for the conflict itself, it is not directly comparable to this one and yes part of that is having a "racist" lower standard of acceptable behaviour for Middle Eastern actors. Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state, least of all Israel.

    "Least" because there's been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.
     
    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities. Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence. These countries are very dissimilar.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @songbird
    @Yahya

    In my estimation, the Euros who support Israel are generally non-racists. (And you can thank antiracism for making them that way.) Anti racists (as in true believers) would be a separate category. (And that is because they are signaling brown).

    Some number of racists might support Israel. But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color. (by definition, racists are the people most inclined to think past skin color.) Most racists seem to be anti-ZOG, where it is legal.

    As to me, I deeply resent the influence Israel has on foreign policy, as well their ability to extract resources. But I also deeply resent both sides for insisting it is the most important thing going on in the world, and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it, when there is a snowball's chance in hell that either has my racial interests at heart.

    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them? Where is the sympathy for modern Europeans among Arabs other than niche commenters who probably make bank on it? In fact, I've seen one wealthy Arab finance some real nasty propaganda video that they showed on public television here. Many Jews were on his payroll.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @LatW
    @Yahya

    Yahya, lay off of me, please. I already explained myself to you once. I like the form, not the content, I like the persistence and the eternal vigilance part and I wish it had been adopted in the EE countries. That's all there is to it. Of course, the terrible situation there is very unfortunate. Please, do not pretend you misunderstand what I said. There are many Ukrainian Israelis now sharing their wisdom with the folks back home, about how they set up their military, it is very interesting.

    And please.. half of the planet is on your side, most definitely in Western Europe, in many cases, especially the leftists are on your side. So give me a break. I do not wish ill upon anybody.

    Btw, there are things I find appealing in Islam, too, so it's not one sided.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Dmitry
    @Yahya

    Yayha last week I wrote an interesting (if I say this about my own comment) reply for your comment about dates, Israel, Syria, etc. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5789420

    But it was lost in the spam filter. I'll add it here


    t I do recall how spacious and beautiful it seemed; especially in comparison to Cairo
     
    Since already the 1990s, I think Syria was the poorest country in the Middle East after Yemen, in the per capita terms, especially in the agricultural area which has problems with draughts. Perhaps relative to Egypt or Jordan there was not so much per capita difference. But they are also next to relatively more developed Lebanon, Israel and Turkey.

    I haven't visited Damascus, for my eyes from the internet, it reminds a lot of Egypt, in terms of the age of the cars? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQPxNTvcrM.) There is the influence of the French city planning. But there is indication of lack of municipal planning, as the traffic not organized for pedestrians.


    st looking at photos of Jaffa/Yafo

     

    I don't like Jaffa, although obviously it was historically important. I read an interesting article from a writer from Jaffa though which describes the social situation there. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/22/1

    My friend actually lives just on the South of the street discussed in the article. It's funny how famous this is, for what is a very small feeling, not so developed village atmosphere place.


    economically depressed in comparison to the bustling Tel Aviv behind it
     
    Tel Aviv is not so "bustling" like a city, but has a shabby, village atmosphere. Both in the poor area and the middle class area, it's like a group of overlapping villages. The atmosphere never feels like even a medium city, in my opinion. Even with a highway and some tall office buildings next to it, but theme is like the village (or beach village).

    It's perhaps because the Jewish culture prioritizes the village atmosphere, where everyone knows each other. Practically, the religious Jews (although that's not in this area) cannot live in buildings with more than 3-4 levels, if they don't want to climb on Shabbat. Historically in Europe at least, Jews were also not allowed to exit the villages until the 19th century. The great cities of Rome and Paris are very distant.

    If you compare Tel Aviv and Beirut. Beirut is standard 6 level building, while Tel Aviv is 3-level building. So, Beirut is obviously not really "Paris of the Middle East", but at least it looks like a city, unlike a village.

    Also Tel Aviv culture loves the shabby appearances, while Beirut culture likes the shiny appearance. Beirut is full of BMW and Mercedes, while Tel Aviv is full of Hyundai and Kia.

    The main street of Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings. The population is middle class, but the people like to wear pajamas in the street.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRn3oQZt5I

    Whereas outer Beirut in the inner it is 6 level buildings. And Beirut has more of the BMWs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoX89rZQDs


    dates along with Arabic or Turkish coffee.

     

    As the traditional Arab food is very healthy. As even traditional food in Russia.

    ame place to visit for tourism. It’s almost comical how little we have in history that is of interest to anyone
     
    It depends on your interest. For example, if you are fan of American culture, the lame village in the center of "flyover country", will be more interesting than Times Square.

    But Saudi are maybe careful to not market their culture too much, even they like to anti-market their culture so they won't be disturbed. After all, it could be very popular culture exports with Western conservatives - Saduai Arabia is one of the world's countries still with traditional politics and culture. AP and AaronB both should going to Saudi Arabia to explore the romance of the feudal structure.


    They’re mixed up with the Muslim population.

     

    As you know more than I, minorities in the Middle East, will usually follow the politics of the majority people in the village, as they still have some communal consensus in their culture. In Northern Israel, the Muslim-Christian villages are usually combined so they are basically Muslims and Christians like single community in terms of their voting strategy. Many of the Christians will be voting for "Ra'am", which is Islamist (although last year informally supporting the government of Lapid/Bennet, which undermined their popularity with the Jewish religious public which saw this as indication of betrayal). Druze villages are separate, so they follow their independent politics and their voting patterns are unpredictable.

    Northern Israel is visually attractive and you need to explore with the car. But there is a lot of the lack of infrastructure (also very lack of police) in the periphery of Israel.

    Although it's not all specific for the Arabs villages (lack of police can be), but also many of even of the Jewish villages and cities in the periphery have lack of infrastructure and investment, shabby buildings that will collapse. If you drive to Kiryat Shmona and Tiberias, the city feels like any postsoviet decline. Nick Johnson could film a series there and he will say it looks like the West Virginia of the Middle East.

    It's not exactly poor (people have new clothes, foreign vacations), but there is lack of investment and attention.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  178. @LatW
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Slightly rude talk
     
    You do not consider it rude to talk about how another country's sons who have taken up arms to defend their mother, that they should be "dismantled" even though the enemy is still out there? You do not consider it rude to show disdain for another country's high military leadership?

    Let's fight openly and honestly. If one makes bold and daring statements about others, they should be able to take the same back.

    How about all the rudeness and sheer disgusting racism that has been dished out on this website against Ukrainians for years now?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry, I agree with you completely. I just don’t care about racist words, when compared to the glee that commenters here have been deludedly celebrating Putin’s invasion with.

  179. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    The negative dialectic seems to have become very powerful in Western societies, clearly in Critical Theory and what has emerged from that, but in other areas as well.

    Afaik opinion polls keep detecting major splits down gender lines on political issues, sometimes they can be really large, 20, 30 points and more. Not the best sign for the future.

    The destructive inclination on the alt right... reminds me of the little videos and clips the younger followers of BAP produce:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq6zJ3zdofo

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    Yes the video above is quite representative. I think this is due to kids seeing that many among their parents generation are overtly materialistic and hedonistic. Propaganda can pretend otherwise, but many kids are not fooled by propaganda. They grow up somewhat despising the society they have been born in.

    They don’t read newspapers, they don’t watch TV, their outlook is based on the echo chambers they find themselves on the web, which is where they mostly interact with other kids all around the world. The gaming communities they are part of (especially boys, girls are less into this), are often quite politically incorrect. It’s a place where they can vent up their frustrations and forget their anxieties. Memes are rapidly generated and exchanged on a large scale. And many (perhaps most) of these memes bear a negative outlook and a destructive “charge” towards today’s society.

    Kids still have the impression that they don’t have much influence on the social system, but once they grow up, and if someone provides a focal point to their frustration, then turbulent times would be the inevitable outcome. Basically, we might end up with a Cultural Revolution meets Perestroika situation.

    I would rather avoid that. In my life I have had enough “interesting times” already.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    I just found the video of la petite salope that sings the song that was used in the meme video that you have posted. It is a fitting illustration to what I was describing.

    https://youtu.be/QpbHdIrtpNo



    What a contrast with what was played on French TV a generation ago.

    https://youtu.be/tnkfGdrCf6g

    Pedophile feminist multiculti decadent hedonism has replaced the "heroic struggle against totalitarian European past".

    LOL

    "So this is the West, a land we're meant to defend..."

    The Alt Right kids are correct, it's time to get done with this circus...

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    I have found the original song that was used in the video that you have posted.

    https://youtu.be/QpbHdIrtpNo

    54 million views.

    LOL

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    In most times, the society's winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society's losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution.

    However, Western society today has a larger share of "winners" than any previous post-agriculture society.

    Also, the Western capitalist society has at least slightly correlated talent and success (it's not a sufficient meritocracy, but there are at least some parts of it). So, on average, talented people are more sharing as society's winners and untalented people are more society's losers.

    A higher proportion of the adequate or talented people are integrated in the corporate economy and having not exactly an uncomfortable life, or very motivating for revolution. Many of the adequate people are in the office and have higher than normal comfortable life, often very good opportunities for career.

    While the people who criticize the current order, are more trending to the untalented side on average, or they can have higher than average social disagreeability (e.g. Elon Musk has more social disagreeability than Bill Gates).

    This is why the current criticism of the current Western society often has a lot of "loser atmosphere", and it's attracting more of people with psychological problems, unsuccessful people, or high social disagreebility. This might not be a very revolutionary condition.

    Remember, the revolutionary condition, times like late 18th century France, where the most economically powerful part of the society was excluded from the political decisions. Or the later 19th century, when the most educated parts of population could be often excluded from jobs.

    In the 19th century, there were often normal, adequate people, who were excluded from jobs that match their skills, while the 21st century Western society is able to integrate most of the adequate population, so companies actually cannot find sufficient workers for many higher levels.

    Revolutions also require organization, but the current people against the system is selecting people with higher sociability (i.e. people who do not have teamwork).

    With the kind of opposition that is today, it's possible the current system has quite a strong "immune system".

    Replies: @Coconuts, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  180. @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    Your comment is odd to me. You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do, but what you believe some person called Morris wishes Israel had done.

    As for the conflict itself, it is not directly comparable to this one and yes part of that is having a “racist” lower standard of acceptable behaviour for Middle Eastern actors. Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state, least of all Israel.

    “Least” because there’s been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do
     
    You haven’t read my post carefully.

    Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state
     
    I didn’t mention anything about European standards. I was talking about LatW’s personal standards.

    “Least” because there’s been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.
     
    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.

    state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state
     
    Whataboutism. Weak.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  181. @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.

    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities. Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence. These countries are very dissimilar.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.
     
    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Could you spell out more clearly just how exactly these differences in the treatment of their minorities plays out in the day to day world?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence.

     

    https://youtu.be/D_ghzLHYuHk

    Replies: @A123, @Ivashka the fool

  182. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    I'm not a nationalist either, but I don't think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.

    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi's?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Greasy William

    I’m not a nationalist either, but I don’t think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.

    Blood and soil is another term that has been permanently tarred by association with Nazism; at least in the West. But in its moderate, non-genocidal form; is a fairly reasonable proposition and a good basis to form a nation around. Ideally it’d be applied to a mono-ethnic nation like Japan; where people can just say “Japan belongs to the Japanese” without offending too many people; thus ensuring the continued existence of the Japanese ethnos for the long-term. But mono-ethnic nations are fairly rare. States like Russia, where 85%+ of people are of a single ethnicity, can also make blood and soil nationalism work if they allow some leeway for indigenous minorities; or to splinter off reluctant ones like the Chechens.

    Blood and soil becomes problematic when people get cowardly and greedy and start thinking ethnic cleansing is an appropriate method of attaining a “pure” state. But extremities should not automatically discredit a moderate version of a particular ideology; which is why I also object to people tarring social democratic views with “socialism” or “communism”. Superficially they may be similar; but moderation can make all the difference.

    Jews in the West are understandably suspicious of blood and soil since they tend to be minorities; and were victims of the extreme manifestation of the ideology. But they seem to be all for it in Israel. Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger; which does seem inconsistent (nationalism for me; but not for thee).

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Yahya


    Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger
     
    Yes, I did describe myself that way in the past. That was before I went to jail and had my epiphany. Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I'm not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I'm too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).

    nationalism for me; but not for thee
     
    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by "nationalism" you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

    I will confess that I am not a big fan of any overt displays of patriotism, however. And I'm waaaaay opposed to any sort of militarism or race sperging.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yahya

  183. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.
     
    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities. Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence. These countries are very dissimilar.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.

    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has. But here again, they are very dissimilar. Israel has a long-term strategy that is rather well thought, more or less efficient and therefore successful. RusFed not so much, its interventions either end up in a stalemate or a failure. Of course the neighborhood matters. Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed's neighbors are European.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @A123
    @Yahya



    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.

     

    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.
     
    Both Russia and Jewish Palestine have similar neighbors. And they both are doing their best to handle such uncivilized foes.

    I will not recap the entire list, but the parallels between Muslim terrorists and Ukie Maximalists are is quite strong. They:

    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda -- Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding

    The last point yields the greatest difference in outcome timing.

    Because Russia is on a war footing, the money burn is huge. The U.S. House will appropriate dramatically less for Ukie aggression in the future. The Kiev regime has to find new donors to contribute billions of €uros per month to keep the full war going. There is a hopeful path that the EU will not step up. Thus, Zelensky will depart in the next 6-9 months due to lack of support.

    The Muslim Occupation of Judea and Samaria [MOJS] is just as futile as Ukie Maximalism. Money flows in from the UN, EU, and other sources to keep the low grade fight going. There is hope here too. Previously intransigent parties are beginning to look for an honourable end to 80 years of failed strategy. The Abraham Accords are a visible symbol. The Saudis have offered, albeit indirectly, a new approach: (1)

    The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine

    This is so difficult for Palestinians because they have received probably more emotional and political support from others than any refugee community in modern times. While such support has often involved considerable financial help, it has also generally been more loud political noise than anything substantive that could conceivably help return the Palestinian people to their homes. Yet this still has deluded them and kept them from facing the painful reality that most of their land and homes in historic Palestine have been permanently lost

     

    The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined.

    The most logical vehicle for this redefinition and hence for the solution to the Palestine problem is the kingdom of Jordan. Over the last seventy-five years, Jordan has developed into a relatively well-governed state, although the impact of regional political turmoil has caused it to fail economically and become heavily reliant on foreign aid for its survival. It is this Jordanian governance infrastructure that needs to be captured and put to productive use in integrating the millions of Palestinians and Jordanians into a modern, reasonably well-functioning state that would, in an era of real peace and economic integration with Jordan’s neighbors, have a much higher chance of growth and prosperity.
     
    Everyone credible understands that a third intifada will make things worse. Sadly, extremists keep pushing towards another catastrophic failure.

    Why not try a different approach that has a chance at working?

    Is the initial Saudi proposal perfect? Of course not. However, as a starting point, it is vastly better than the current trajectory.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  184. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Jew is not a similar category to Nazi, no matter how much people on Unz want it to be, while also basically identifying as Nazis and thinking Jews are the worst things in the world
     
    .

    Right, another example of the weird contradictions one finds in politics.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they're basically.....Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they're nationalist.

    I think homo politicus is just not a very sane and rational animal at the best of times.

    And yes, I agree both "Jew" and "Nazi" exist primarily as terms that have mythological resonance, and little real world descriptive power.

    At the moment, these seem to be the two most mythologically charged terms in the West - which leads to a rather impoverished mythological language, if you think about it, which may explain the impoverished range of our political discourse.

    Man needs a rich and subtle mythology to expand the range of his imagination.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, and it gets funnier than that. Much of the Unz crowd loves everything about Jews, except they’re not them. And hates everything about white Gentiles, except they are them.

    Of course their image of the two respective categories is a total fantasy*, but the internal contradiction is hilarious.

    * The most amusing way to prove that their respective images of the two is a complete fantasy is to compare their attitude to Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Freud. None of which they understand, but they still attach a lot of different judgements and emotions to. In particular, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer are seen as bastions against the totally evil and subversive Freud. Even though, in reality, the work of those three carries the same meaning! They’re reformulations of the same ideas! Uncontroversially. Any person who reads them all will inform you of this as a statement of plain fact.

    Lol

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, there seems to be tremendous cognitive dissonance going on on this site.

    I know that Freud refused to read Nietzsche because he thought so much of his thought foreshadowed his own insights and he wanted to keep his line of inspiration pure, and I know that Nietzsche was a huge admirer of Schopenhauer and greatly inspired by him, although ultimately rejecting his world-pessimism.

    There are also significant and irreconcilable differences between the three, not to be glossed over, but they do form a sort of line of continuous intellectual development.

    I find in general that the Unz White Nationalists are tremendously ignorant of European intellectual and cultural history, in particular the intellectual history of European nihilism and "decadence", which was such a central feature of European thought and art beginning perhaps shortly after the advent of the Industrial Revolution, and in response to it.

    Kevin McDonald, for instance, has constructed a history of Europe from which all major cultural and intellectual critique of emerging trends embodied in the Industrial Revolution, the new materialism, the new conception of life and the universe as soulless mechanism - I was going to say are excluded from consideration, but it's more like they simply never existed in his alternate universe.

    It's as if Blake, Wordsworth, Keats, with their fierce critique of the Industrial Revolution and the new mechanistic view of life, simply didn't exist, as if Byron and Shelley with their disgust at the political oppression of their times and their celebration of exotic climes, never wrote, as if Baudelaire never expressed his disgust with France and European civilization in his Fleur's du Mal and Spleen de Paris, as if Flaubert never pilloried the dull philistinism of the new bourgeois culture arising in his Madame Bovary, as of Holderin, Novalis, the Schlegel's, never put pen to paper critiquing the loss of dimension and imagination emerging in Europe as a result of the new culture of mechanization, as if the Existentialists never wrote about the nihilistic "absurdity" of life in a world without God or meaning, as if Dostoevsky never decried the nihilism, materialism, and rationalism emerging in his time (and all this is just the tip of the iceberg).

    He has constructed an alternative universe in which European culture was monolithic and without significant inner conflict or tension - in other words, without "soul" - until Jews came along and attacked this, er, splendid(ly boring) edifice. It's not even that this is wrong - it's boring. He has expunged all the glory and greatness, all the soul, from European cultural life and replaced it with a tale "told by an idiot, signifying nothing" - a modern tale, in which the primary metaphors are caricatures of biology and the tedium of a supposed Darwinism struggle.

    Who would prefer this to the glorious historical development from faith to nihilism, a tragedy in several acts and of world-historical importance?

    Well, I've gone off ranting again, so I shall leave off here lol :)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  185. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.
     
    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123

    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has. But here again, they are very dissimilar. Israel has a long-term strategy that is rather well thought, more or less efficient and therefore successful. RusFed not so much, its interventions either end up in a stalemate or a failure. Of course the neighborhood matters. Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed’s neighbors are European.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has.
     
    Then you don’t have a moral conscience that extends to out-groups and neighbors.

    Israel is a pure Machiavellian state.

    They have no compunction in destroying neighboring states if it furthers their foreign policy ends.

    They egged the US to invade Iraq in 03’; successfully lobbied for sanctions against Iran; and Netanyahu is still out and about trying to convince the Americans to attack Iran. Israel’s actions have severe repercussions not just on the victim population; but in Europe when the inevitable wave of migrants hit them.

    They tried to destroy Egypt - a country 20x times large than Israel by population - in the 50s because the Israelis saw the budding relationship between Egypt and America as a threat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

    Israel is a caricature of the devious Machiavellian: “the ends justify the means”.

    Saudi Arabia is rather similar in that regard; except more like Russia in it’s lack of effectiveness.


    Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed’s neighbors are European.
     
    RusFed borders the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Far East.

    I don’t appreciate your sentiment that Israel is succeeding where Russia is failing because they are up against Arabs; whereas Russia is against Europeans.

    You are forgetting that Jews are also running circles around Europeans in North America; silently destroying their demographic majority as they did to Arabs in Palestine.

    The combo of Ashkenazim IQ + ethnocentrism is a formidable enemy to go up against. But even then; I think Jews got lucky in some aspects; if some key decisions were made differently; they would’ve lost. For example, if Nasser hadn’t been stupid enough to drain the Egyptian army in the Yemeni conflict some years before; Egypt could’ve defeated Israel in the first conflict.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  186. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Your comment is odd to me. You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do, but what you believe some person called Morris wishes Israel had done.

    As for the conflict itself, it is not directly comparable to this one and yes part of that is having a "racist" lower standard of acceptable behaviour for Middle Eastern actors. Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state, least of all Israel.

    "Least" because there's been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.

    Replies: @Yahya

    You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do

    You haven’t read my post carefully.

    Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state

    I didn’t mention anything about European standards. I was talking about LatW’s personal standards.

    “Least” because there’s been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.

    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.

    state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state

    Whataboutism. Weak.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya


    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.
     
    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely. The Palestinian deaths include combatants.

    Furthermore, this is over 80 years!

    My point is that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is perhaps the least bloody dynamic in the whole of the Middle East.

    I'm not saying it is fine. I am instead saying that I don't know what the Israelis could do better. Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.

    I know you don't like the implications of this observation and what they say about your people, but at least I don't think your people have to be like they are. It may be totally their responsibility that they are like they are, but that's exactly why they are able to change how they relate to each other.

    If you find this sentiment racist or offensive, that's your problem. The person unwilling to see the bloody and otherwise mediocre reality of the Arab peoples in the last 7 decades, because it would cause them to feel too much disdain for those peoples is the racist by my definition. Regardless of what excuses they condescendingly make for the Arab peoples' failures.

    My criticism comes from assumptions of equality, whereas the normal third world "it wasn't me" type of deflection of responsibility comes from assumptions of inferiority. I hope you can recognise this. And tell true friend from foe.

    Replies: @Yahya

  187. @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    In my estimation, the Euros who support Israel are generally non-racists. (And you can thank antiracism for making them that way.) Anti racists (as in true believers) would be a separate category. (And that is because they are signaling brown).

    Some number of racists might support Israel. But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color. (by definition, racists are the people most inclined to think past skin color.) Most racists seem to be anti-ZOG, where it is legal.

    As to me, I deeply resent the influence Israel has on foreign policy, as well their ability to extract resources. But I also deeply resent both sides for insisting it is the most important thing going on in the world, and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it, when there is a snowball’s chance in hell that either has my racial interests at heart.

    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them? Where is the sympathy for modern Europeans among Arabs other than niche commenters who probably make bank on it? In fact, I’ve seen one wealthy Arab finance some real nasty propaganda video that they showed on public television here. Many Jews were on his payroll.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @songbird


    But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color.
     
    You have reading comprehension problems. I never mentioned skin color; because a) that's not the primary basis for race, b) I am not an American ignoramus who thinks Israelis are "white" and Palestinians "brown". Israelis are lighter on average; but there's significant overlap in skin color between Israelis and Palestinians.

    Also you are doing that thing again where you conflate my criticisms of individuals like LatW with a broader criticism of "racists" as a group. While I do not like racists and don't mind criticizing them; that wasn't my intention in that specific post. I don't know what their views are on the Israeli-Palestine conflict; or if they have a consistent one either. You simply misinterpreted me.


    and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it,
     
    I don't fault you for not taking sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict. In fact I commend you for it. My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel; especially if they hypocritically view Russian behavior vis-a-vis Ukraine as the worst thing to happen since Hitler; but see Israel's similar (except more successful) behavior as something worthy or admirable.

    But there's nothing wrong with being neutral in any particular conflict. No-one is obligated to opine on each and every issue around the globe. But if you're going to express an opinion; it's good to be consistent in your views.


    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them?
     
    Well Arab countries took in Armenian refugees during the genocide. Many of the survivors fled to the Northern parts of Syria around Aleppo; and some of their descendants are still there and in Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon. Interestingly they are disproportionately represented in music and television (Lena Chemamyan, Julia Boutros, Seta Hagopian etc.). There's this one Iraqi-Armenian called Beatrice Ohanessian who was the first concert pianist in Iraq:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KyCzX-exws&t=176s&ab_channel=a1s2d3f4g5q1w2e3

    I once read a book called "An Egyptian Soldier" by an Armenian who had been drafted during the Egyptian-Israeli conflict. He described the misery he endured serving in the Egyptian army; to which he felt no loyalty to. He tried to explain to his officers that he is a foreigner and should be exempted from service; but they were in need of educated soldiers. He eventually immigrated to Canada where he wrote the book basically shitting on Egypt and the army. I was kind of irritated that he didn't say anything nice about Egypt even though it granted his family shelter from the genocide. But perhaps he had reason for feeling resentful. The Armenian president has expressed gratitude on behalf of Armenians on the anniversary of the genocide though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m4mBuKOYvg&ab_channel=ArabNews

    The most memorable book I've read on this topic is called Martyred Armenia; authored by Faiz El-Ghusein. It's a short eyewitness account of the genocide by a Syrian elder who was exiled to southeastern Turkey by the Ottoman authorities and witnessed the events first-hand. It was very saddening to read.


    Some excerpts:


    Is it right that these imposters, who pretend to be the supports of Islam and the Khilâfat, the protectors of the Moslems, should transgress the command of God, transgress the Koran, the Traditions of the Prophet, and humanity? Truly, they have committed an act at which Islam is revolted, as well as all Moslems and all the peoples of the earth, be they Moslems, Christians, Jews, or idolators. As God lives, it is a shameful deed, the like of which has not been done by any people counting themselves as civilised.

    ----------

    Narrative of a Provincial Governor.—We were talking of the courage and good qualities of the Armenians, and the Governor of the place, who was with us, told us a singular story. He said: "According to orders, I collected all the remaining Armenians, consisting of 17 women and some children, amongst whom was a child of 3 years old, diseased, who had never been able to walk. When the butchers began slaughtering the women and the turn of the child's mother came, he rose up on his feet and ran for a space, then falling down. We were astonished at this, and at his understanding that his mother was to be killed. A gendarme went and took hold of him, and laid him dead on his dead mother." He also said that he had seen one of these women eating a piece of bread as she went up to the butcher, another smoking a cigarette, and that it was as though they cared nothing for death.

    ----------

    After passing the night at Sivrek we left early in the morning. As we approached Diarbekir the corpses became more numerous, and on our route we met companies of women going to Sivrek under guard of gendarmes, weary and wretched, the traces of tears and misery plain on their faces—a plight to bring tears of blood from stones, and move the compassion of beasts of prey. What, in God's name, had these women done? Had they made war on the Turks, or killed even one of them? What was the crime of these hapless creatures, whose sole offence was that they were Armenians, skilled in the management of their homes and the training of their children, with no thought beyond the comfort of their husbands and sons, and the fulfilment of their duties towards them.

    ----------

    I ask you, O Moslems—is this to be counted as a crime? Think for a moment. What was the fault of these poor women? Was it in their being superior to the Turkish women in every respect? Even assuming that their men had merited such treatment, is it right that these women should be dealt with in a manner from which wild beasts would recoil? God has said in the Koran: "Do not load one with another's burthens," that is, Let not one be punished for another.

    What had these weak women done, and what had their infants done? Can the men of the Turkish Government bring forward even a feeble proof to justify their action and to convince the people of Islam, who hold that action for unlawful and reject it? No; they can find no word to say before a people whose usages are founded on justice, and their laws on wisdom and reason.

    ----------

    Children Perishing of Hunger and Thirst.—An Arab of El-Jezîra, who accompanied me on my flight from Diarbekir, told me that he had gone with a Sheikh of his tribe, men and camels, to buy grain from the sons of Ibrahim Pasha El-Mellili. On their way they saw 17 children, the eldest not more than 13 years old, dying of hunger and thirst. The Arab said: "We had with us a small water-skin and a little food. When the Sheikh saw them he wept with pity, and gave them food and water with his own hands; but what good could this small supply do to them? We reflected that if we took them with us to the Pasha, they would be killed, as the Kurds were killing all Armenians by order of the authorities; and our Arabs were at five days' distance from the place. So we had no choice but to leave them to the mercy of God, and on our return, a week later, we found them all dead."

    ----------

     

    Replies: @songbird

  188. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I personally don’t think Islam is healthy at the moment.
     
    Maybe there are different criteria for health, you could look at how far the Islamic world lives up to spiritual or moral ideals for example. But there used to be this idea that success in political terms was something more modest than that, even if it was a necessary precondition for the development of robust spiritual life.

    Two of the key criteria for political success used to be preserving peace and ensuring the survival of the population. Muslim countries are doing okay on one count, not so badly but perhaps could do better on the other. Euro countries (inc. North America etc.) might be better at securing peace (questionable?), at least for now, but there is a bigger question about guaranteeing the survival of their populations.

    And the Muslim world is mired in very sinister violence, factionalism, and seemingly very dark spiritual trends.
     
    I would sort of expect it, given the growing and youthful population. These things seem connected.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.

    For instance, some not very intelligent people think the Chinese elites don’t import foreigners because they are loyal to their ethnic kin. In fact, the Chinese working population is perhaps the most docile, cowed, and hardest working in the world. Consequently, they are ruthlessly exploited to enrich their elite – there is no need to import foreigners.

    I guarantee you, if in the West Whites were willing to work the Chinese 9am-9pm, 6 days a week, with weak to nonexistent protections and rights, showing extreme deference to an elite that drives around in flashy cars, parties with beautiful girls, and lives in grand mansions, then Western elites would show “ethnic loyalty”.

    In the West, the average man and woman demands a level of respect, safety, and a standard of living that makes him sadly rather unattractive to an elite. This is a problem that was noted beginning in the 19th century.

    At that time, it was beginning to be noted by many commentators for instance that the Chinese can significantly “underlive” White people, who demanded a much higher standard of living, and that this was the chief Chinese advantage as workers – he’d live in appalling conditions, accept a paltry wage, was docile and acquiescent, and work long hours.

    Likewise in the Muslim world, you have an extremely wealthy elite and an exploited, impoverished, and oppressed population on a scale inconceivable in the West – this isn’t “preserving the population”, this is an elite enriching itself as best it can. Look at Yahya to get a sense of the sheer contempt this wealthy elite feels for it’s population and the importance it places on money as a marker of status.

    Moreover, Muslim lands are not economically dynamic or attractive to outsiders, so it’s hard to say what the elite would do if there was demand to immigrate and it benefited them (actually, not that hard 🙂 )

    You may point to the Gulf Arabs as countries where exceptions to the above rule – but these are countries whose wealth depends entirely on technical expertise that the natives cannot supply. In other words, the entire native population cannot compete with outsiders whose expertise is absolutely crucial to their wealth. So if they allowed immigration on an equal basis, the elites would quickly be dominated and supplanted and a new foreign elite arise, that could easily form an alliance with the workers if they treated them better. In this scenario, it makes most sense for the elites to actually be somewhat generous to the population and form a united front.

    So I think you right wingers who see “ethnic loyalty” and don’t understand the power dynamics of these countries are rather touchingly naive 🙂

    If you look at countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, even Egypt, and you see “health” – I don’t know what to say, really. I think you’d have to be an authoritarian or someone with exploitative elite tendencies themselves to see something worth emulating here.

    All that being said, I’m sure there are some good things about the Muslim world today that we can learn from.

    @ Ivashka – that’s a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. “Motivated reasoning” often leads to much more acute insights than “objective” reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I’m not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense 🙂

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    @ Ivashka – that’s a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. “Motivated reasoning” often leads to much more acute insights than “objective” reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I’m not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense 🙂
     
    Cool, keep it going.
    , @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.
     
    I think the premise here needs more development because it seems to read like a claim that a population's preservation or survival is a form of exploitation. Maybe this is similar to arguments used by some feminists that women's desire to have children is a form of false-consciousness caused by internalised patriarchy?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  189. @LatW

    I think he’s seriously deluded and his politics rather abhorrent
     
    It's not so much that they're abhorrent but that they are incoherent. I don't even care enough.


    where opposite stances can both be expressions of, and determined by, Jewishness
     
    Yes, and I noted that this can often be the case.

    That you find his vicious anti-Americanism to go against his ethnic self-interest
     
    I wasn't trying to make a point about it, I was just warning him - be careful what you wish for.
    Russians have a saying - с жиру беситься. It means that someone is too spoiled to realize how good they actually have it. Nobody out there is going to baby him the way that the US does. And then he thinks it's ok to impose tyranny on others for things he can't be bothered himself to achieve (get rid of the woke).

    on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression
     
    It is clear that his attitude towards this conflict is driven to a large extent by some kind of anxiety - which, by the way, is not a sin, many people struggle with it (I guess mental illness should be de-stigmatized in the era of full access to the internet... jk, lol).

    I think you too strongly try and reduce politics to ethnicity, and this inevitably leads to contradiction and cognitive dissonance because it cannot explain the complicated and contradictory range of human political activity.
     
    Wrong. I do not reduce politics to ethnicity, but I do take ethnicity into account when judging someone's politics. Not all the time, but in certain instances. I may be wrong or right at any given time, but I'm not as dumb as you posit.

    I only thought, and think, the cross-layers and cross purposes of the Ukraine thing can often be quite weird at times.
     
    I agree, it has gone too far, and I find it very disheartening that Ukraine, with all the tragedy that she has had to endure, is being used in all these ideological struggles. These guys are only adding to the heaviness of the Jesus' cross during the Golgatha.

    Nazis are good, but Jews are terrible because they’re basically…..Nazis. Nationalism is great, but Israel sucks because they’re nationalist.
     
    No, that's not what I said (maybe others did here, but not I). I admire Israel. What I did was basically tell a Jewish guy "Who are you to tell Gentiles to disband their militias". That's all.

    Also, I really dislike the principle of "nationalism for me but not for thee". Which is prevalent among both Jews and the pro-Russian American right wingers (and West Euros).

    One important thing though that I'm getting from this conversation with Greasy is that liberals in the US might indeed be a bit of a problem - I mean, what do you think could alleviate his pain from his inevitable interactions with them? He is unable to develop indifference towards them. Maybe you can help him.

    Replies: @Yahya, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Okay, fair comment.

    No, that’s not what I said (maybe others did here, but not I). I admire Israel. What I did was basically tell a Jewish guy “Who are you to tell Gentiles to disband their militias”. That’s all.

    I didn’t mean you here, just the general Unz population of commenters. You’re actually pretty consistent as a nationalist who admires Israel.

  190. @Greasy William
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    He’s also obviously a conflicted and self contradictory person – says he despises liberals but himself adopts one of their major positions, anti-nationalism
     
    I have a completely different type of anti nationalism than liberals have. I'm not a Globalist, I'm just opposed to militant nationalism, or ultra nationalism if you want to call it that. I don't care about stuff like racial/ethnic purity but I don't have a problem with people who do. I don't see ultra nationalism or racism as immoral, I see them as stupid.

    waffles back and forth on whether Russia or Ukraine is winning depending on his depression
     
    It's not my depression, it's that the information coming out of the conflict zone is so contradictory and we don't have any historical precedents for this type of war. For a long time I was convinced that Russia was winning big time, largely because I completely ignored all mainstream Western sources because I just assumed they were lying about everything. Now I'm consuming a wider variety of sources and things become only more unclear to me with time.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I have a completely different type of anti nationalism than liberals have. I’m not a Globalist, I’m just opposed to militant nationalism, or ultra nationalism if you want to call it that. I don’t care about stuff like racial/ethnic purity but I don’t have a problem with people who do. I don’t see ultra nationalism or racism as immoral, I see them as stupid.

    Fair enough.

    As for stupidity, I think ethnic nationalism can be strategically smart or strategically stupid – especially for an elite – depending on particular circumstances, as I sketched briefly in my other comment.

    As for morality, I actually do think caring about racial purity is immoral and spiritually limited – however, I think people on that level should not be coerced or bullied into thinking otherwise, but permitted to live through their own particular karma. They should be gently educated perhaps but they have their own spiritual issues to work through at their pace.

    I vastly prefer allegiance to a “spiritual community” over a racial or ethnic community – Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists – and even here, I favor not exclucivism and seperation but amicable coexistence in relatively close proximity and rich cultural exchange.

    But that’s just me 🙂

    As for the war, I don’t think the info is that confusing – obviously, Russia is too weak to achieve anything significant, and Ukraine isn’t going to be conquering Moscow anytime soon.

    Of course, anything could happen and the future is hardly written in stone.

  191. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You seem to be criticising Israel for what it did not do
     
    You haven’t read my post carefully.

    Sorry, but trying to apply a post-WW2 European standard would result in a constant state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state
     
    I didn’t mention anything about European standards. I was talking about LatW’s personal standards.

    “Least” because there’s been about 30,000 Palestinian deaths since 1948.
     
    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.

    state of shock and disgust at near every Middle Eastern state
     
    Whataboutism. Weak.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.

    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely. The Palestinian deaths include combatants.

    Furthermore, this is over 80 years!

    My point is that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is perhaps the least bloody dynamic in the whole of the Middle East.

    I’m not saying it is fine. I am instead saying that I don’t know what the Israelis could do better. Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.

    I know you don’t like the implications of this observation and what they say about your people, but at least I don’t think your people have to be like they are. It may be totally their responsibility that they are like they are, but that’s exactly why they are able to change how they relate to each other.

    If you find this sentiment racist or offensive, that’s your problem. The person unwilling to see the bloody and otherwise mediocre reality of the Arab peoples in the last 7 decades, because it would cause them to feel too much disdain for those peoples is the racist by my definition. Regardless of what excuses they condescendingly make for the Arab peoples’ failures.

    My criticism comes from assumptions of equality, whereas the normal third world “it wasn’t me” type of deflection of responsibility comes from assumptions of inferiority. I hope you can recognise this. And tell true friend from foe.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely.
     
    Well whatever the true figure (which no-one knows), I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest. My point is that it’s fundamentally hypocritical to say all the things LatW has said about the “tragedy suffered by Ukraine”; then turn around and endorse Israel and its policies. The numbers may differ; but the underlying principle is the same.

    Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.
     
    Again; just another form of whataboutism.

    It doesn’t matter what “Arab states” would or would not have done if they were in Israel's position; because a) they are not in Israel's position, so you have no basis for your conjecture other than gut instinct (so scientific and reliable a technique!) b) what "Arab states" do has no bearing on the question of justice in Palestine. Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions (real or conjectural) of other Arab states.

    But you are hardly alone among Israeli advocates to deploy this tried-and-true technique of deflecting criticism away from Israel. These whataboutisms ("But, but… the what about the Turkish genocide of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians!") are just so stupid and tiresome. Why the heck should Turkey or Saudi Arabia's actions give Israel the right to forcibly expel Palestinians from their territory? The one has no bearing on the other. It's just a duplicitous technique to deflect criticism and avoid responsibility.

    If you want to specifically say that "Palestinians would've been just as oppressive if they were in Israel's position"; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel's position; because they weren't the ones going to the shtetls in Europe to colonize and expel the European Jews there; but rather the European Jews were the ones to come to them.

    It was the Palestinians; tilling the soil and shepherding their sheep; innocently minding their business; when a group of Polish, Russian and German Jews descended upon them with the express intent of ethnically cleansing them off the land to make space for a majority Jewish state.

    Now, you could say that Jews needed a place to go after being exterminated in Europe. And that would be a reasonable position to hold. In fact that's the position I used to take just a few years ago; and about the only argument I'm willing to entertain for why Ashkenazi Jews have a right to stay in Palestine (Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are a different topic; I'll leave that aside for now).

    I don't know if you'd believe me; but only 4 years ago you would've found me sympathetic to Israel; because while Ashkenazi Jews follow a different religion; I basically view them as culturally very similar to myself. In my behavior and interests I'm probably closer to a secular Ashkenazi Jew than I am to the average Palestinian Arab. I also used to admire the Jewish aptitude for business and scholarly interests; two activities I hold in high regard. I still do to an extent; but these considerations have taken a back seat once I started delving more into the history of the Zionist-Arab conflict.

    Simply put: Ashkenazi Jews have screwed over the Palestinians so thoroughly and deeply that I now regret having been sympathetic to Israel, or god forbid defended their actions in a moment of ignorance. The more I learnt about the topic; the more this feeling of revulsion at the injustice intensified; and just the shameless manner in which Zionist Jews propagandized the world that they were victims; when instead they were the colonizing aggressors; made me realize that I was wrong and Palestinians had it right not to trust the Jews all along.

    Probably if I was born in 1920s Palestine I would've been one of these naïve Arabs who said "let our Brother Abraham come in; they're smart and educated; and they need refuge from the carnage happening in Europe. We've been living with Sephardic Jews for millennia; no reason why the Ashkenazim would've been different". And boy would I have been naïve and wrong. The Palestinians to their credit had the Jews pegged straight all along; they just weren't capable enough to defend themselves against Zionist aggression.

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

  192. @Beckow
    @A123


    Therefore, the phrase “US promises” is gibberish.
     
    Precisely, so why talk at all? Among honorable people promises are kept, but you think honor is gibberish and the rest of the world knows.

    Whatever irrelevant, internal process reasons you come up with, Washington is simply not agreement-capable. 'Presidents change', sure, so there is no value in negotiating with a temporary place-holder. There are 'exit clauses', yeah, so there really is no binding anything...rules, 'ratified or not', 'others also cheat!'....you are making my point that diplomacy with people who can't make promises or agreements they will keep is pointless. So we are back to resolving issues with wars.

    Also your Iran obsession is silly and borders on pathological. Let go of it, it makes you sound deranged. Or if you can't, go and invade, they have a long shoreline, take lengthy breaks, don't maintain well, maybe you will get lucky. Then what? maybe minding your own business would be better...

    Replies: @A123

    Precisely, so why talk at all?

    Because America is treaty capable and thus agreement capable. This does require bringing 2/3 of the Senate along for any long lasting deal.

    Among honorable people promises are kept, but you think honor is gibberish and the rest of the world knows.

    Honorable people, really anyone with the tiniest smidgen of common sense, realize there are limits. Only those without honour, such as yourself, fail to see those boundaries.

    Let me illustrate:

    • Your six year old child “promises” your house away. Do you abandon your property? Of course not. Your child does not have the authority to make “promises” that are beyond his legal capacity.

    Now bring that thought process to a direct parallel scenario:

    • A President “promises” to bind future administration without a treaty. Is that lie enforceable? Of course not. An individual President does not have the authority to make “promises” that are beyond his legal capacity.

    Everyone knows the limits that bind a U.S. President. You dishonour yourself by pretending these explicit rules of civilized behaviour do not exist.

    PEACE 😇

  193. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has. But here again, they are very dissimilar. Israel has a long-term strategy that is rather well thought, more or less efficient and therefore successful. RusFed not so much, its interventions either end up in a stalemate or a failure. Of course the neighborhood matters. Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed's neighbors are European.

    Replies: @Yahya

    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has.

    Then you don’t have a moral conscience that extends to out-groups and neighbors.

    Israel is a pure Machiavellian state.

    They have no compunction in destroying neighboring states if it furthers their foreign policy ends.

    They egged the US to invade Iraq in 03’; successfully lobbied for sanctions against Iran; and Netanyahu is still out and about trying to convince the Americans to attack Iran. Israel’s actions have severe repercussions not just on the victim population; but in Europe when the inevitable wave of migrants hit them.

    They tried to destroy Egypt – a country 20x times large than Israel by population – in the 50s because the Israelis saw the budding relationship between Egypt and America as a threat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

    Israel is a caricature of the devious Machiavellian: “the ends justify the means”.

    Saudi Arabia is rather similar in that regard; except more like Russia in it’s lack of effectiveness.

    Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed’s neighbors are European.

    RusFed borders the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Far East.

    I don’t appreciate your sentiment that Israel is succeeding where Russia is failing because they are up against Arabs; whereas Russia is against Europeans.

    You are forgetting that Jews are also running circles around Europeans in North America; silently destroying their demographic majority as they did to Arabs in Palestine.

    The combo of Ashkenazim IQ + ethnocentrism is a formidable enemy to go up against. But even then; I think Jews got lucky in some aspects; if some key decisions were made differently; they would’ve lost. For example, if Nasser hadn’t been stupid enough to drain the Egyptian army in the Yemeni conflict some years before; Egypt could’ve defeated Israel in the first conflict.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    I leave you to discuss the Semitic family feuds with your Abrahamic cousins; Aaron, Dima, Laxa and Greasy would probably be better interlocutors than I am. As I wrote above, I don't discuss Israel with Muslims or Muslim World with Jews. That would be a waste of my neurons. I am convinced that Jews and Arabs deserve each other as neighbors and I wish all Semites moved back to their ancestral lands and left us Goyim Kuffar to mind our own business. The only reason I replied to your comment was because you somehow mixed up RusFed with the never-ending Middle Eastern drama. I believe I have shown that your Israel / RusFed analogy was faulty, now I am done with this discussion.

  194. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Here's a good example of what Antisemite's call..."early life" or "everyfuckig time".

    recall Ukraine's novel feminist movement Femen? It was apparently a bunch of women from ukraine who opposed human trafficking, opposed domestic violence and even had names like Shevchenko attached to it. a Mix of tits and feminist sloganeering,

    If you watch Australian director Kitty Green's sympathetic documentary "Ukraine is Not a Brothel" a guy called Victor Svyatski shows up and Green eventually puts two and two together that Femen was a harem for a guy. Here's the guy who actually started this AgitPorn as a graduate degree project with a girl he wanted to fuck. He bears an uncanny family resemblance to Zelenskyy in certain respects. "uh oh" I thought. "What's all this? better hit early life!" Lo and behold every fukcing time he might be Jewish. Only Muslim sources seem, to have realized how Victor Svyatski may have an ethnic agenda going to defile Ukrainian women...even then they are being coy in the articles.

    https://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-femens-assault-on-muslim-women/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/9/4/man-exposed-as-topless-protest-group-founder

    https://orthochristian.com/64045.html

    There is something odd stirring in Ukriane their "Our Jews"

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    I don’t know anything about Ukraine’s Femen. Nor do I care that some Jew* may have been having sex with some of them or not. I appreciate that it seems like a huge deal to you and indicative of some desire of yours to be defiled or whatever, but it doesn’t interest me. As for Muslim sources bathing in obsessive jealousy equal to yours, that seems pretty normal for them.

    A very small group of beautiful but histrionic women working with a charismatic and potentially somewhat Machiavellian man, in order to gain attention and money, is not indicative of much, except that those two types often end up together.

    Furthermore, I don’t consider those women “defiled.” Did he beat them? I can’t find any allegations. Or did he just charm them? In which case, they’re adults making their own decisions. I am not personally sympathetic to “oh, what a dainty waif I am and victim” hysteria, whether open, like with much of #MeToo, or repressed, like with many Unz commentors, or even Andrew Tate himself.

    *Is he even Jewish? He doesn’t look like most of the Jews I have met. He’s fair-haired, has a normal East Euro name and is from Khmelnytskyi, which probably has a handful of Jews living in it. Can you find a reputable source for your claim?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Hutsol the acknowledged founder is most certainly a Jew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Hutsol


    “Hutsol is of Jewish origin and was born in Russia but moved to Ukraine with her parents in 1991. She is an economist and a former assistant to singer Ukrainian aero vision winner Tina Karol (nee Liberman).”


    If her male counterpart Victor was not himself Jewish I’d be amazed. Either way they were clearly a couple who were exploiting white girls. Sviatsky’s biography on wiki runs cold. I can’t think why.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Is_Not_a_Brothel

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  195. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.
     
    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123

    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.

    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.

    Both Russia and Jewish Palestine have similar neighbors. And they both are doing their best to handle such uncivilized foes.

    I will not recap the entire list, but the parallels between Muslim terrorists and Ukie Maximalists are is quite strong. They:

    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda — Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding

    The last point yields the greatest difference in outcome timing.

    Because Russia is on a war footing, the money burn is huge. The U.S. House will appropriate dramatically less for Ukie aggression in the future. The Kiev regime has to find new donors to contribute billions of €uros per month to keep the full war going. There is a hopeful path that the EU will not step up. Thus, Zelensky will depart in the next 6-9 months due to lack of support.

    The Muslim Occupation of Judea and Samaria [MOJS] is just as futile as Ukie Maximalism. Money flows in from the UN, EU, and other sources to keep the low grade fight going. There is hope here too. Previously intransigent parties are beginning to look for an honourable end to 80 years of failed strategy. The Abraham Accords are a visible symbol. The Saudis have offered, albeit indirectly, a new approach: (1)

    The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine

    This is so difficult for Palestinians because they have received probably more emotional and political support from others than any refugee community in modern times. While such support has often involved considerable financial help, it has also generally been more loud political noise than anything substantive that could conceivably help return the Palestinian people to their homes. Yet this still has deluded them and kept them from facing the painful reality that most of their land and homes in historic Palestine have been permanently lost

    The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined.

    The most logical vehicle for this redefinition and hence for the solution to the Palestine problem is the kingdom of Jordan. Over the last seventy-five years, Jordan has developed into a relatively well-governed state, although the impact of regional political turmoil has caused it to fail economically and become heavily reliant on foreign aid for its survival. It is this Jordanian governance infrastructure that needs to be captured and put to productive use in integrating the millions of Palestinians and Jordanians into a modern, reasonably well-functioning state that would, in an era of real peace and economic integration with Jordan’s neighbors, have a much higher chance of growth and prosperity.

    Everyone credible understands that a third intifada will make things worse. Sadly, extremists keep pushing towards another catastrophic failure.

    Why not try a different approach that has a chance at working?

    Is the initial Saudi proposal perfect? Of course not. However, as a starting point, it is vastly better than the current trajectory.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123




    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda — Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding
     
    At least Hugh Crane ain't an antisemite!

    Replies: @A123

  196. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Yes the video above is quite representative. I think this is due to kids seeing that many among their parents generation are overtly materialistic and hedonistic. Propaganda can pretend otherwise, but many kids are not fooled by propaganda. They grow up somewhat despising the society they have been born in.

    They don't read newspapers, they don't watch TV, their outlook is based on the echo chambers they find themselves on the web, which is where they mostly interact with other kids all around the world. The gaming communities they are part of (especially boys, girls are less into this), are often quite politically incorrect. It's a place where they can vent up their frustrations and forget their anxieties. Memes are rapidly generated and exchanged on a large scale. And many (perhaps most) of these memes bear a negative outlook and a destructive "charge" towards today's society.

    https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/a8b269d66e8609ed2938c93ceb59d22f.jpg

    Kids still have the impression that they don't have much influence on the social system, but once they grow up, and if someone provides a focal point to their frustration, then turbulent times would be the inevitable outcome. Basically, we might end up with a Cultural Revolution meets Perestroika situation.

    I would rather avoid that. In my life I have had enough "interesting times" already.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    I just found the video of la petite salope that sings the song that was used in the meme video that you have posted. It is a fitting illustration to what I was describing.

    [MORE]

    What a contrast with what was played on French TV a generation ago.

    Pedophile feminist multiculti decadent hedonism has replaced the “heroic struggle against totalitarian European past”.

    LOL

    “So this is the West, a land we’re meant to defend…”

    The Alt Right kids are correct, it’s time to get done with this circus…

  197. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Yes the video above is quite representative. I think this is due to kids seeing that many among their parents generation are overtly materialistic and hedonistic. Propaganda can pretend otherwise, but many kids are not fooled by propaganda. They grow up somewhat despising the society they have been born in.

    They don't read newspapers, they don't watch TV, their outlook is based on the echo chambers they find themselves on the web, which is where they mostly interact with other kids all around the world. The gaming communities they are part of (especially boys, girls are less into this), are often quite politically incorrect. It's a place where they can vent up their frustrations and forget their anxieties. Memes are rapidly generated and exchanged on a large scale. And many (perhaps most) of these memes bear a negative outlook and a destructive "charge" towards today's society.

    https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/a8b269d66e8609ed2938c93ceb59d22f.jpg

    Kids still have the impression that they don't have much influence on the social system, but once they grow up, and if someone provides a focal point to their frustration, then turbulent times would be the inevitable outcome. Basically, we might end up with a Cultural Revolution meets Perestroika situation.

    I would rather avoid that. In my life I have had enough "interesting times" already.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    I have found the original song that was used in the video that you have posted.

    54 million views.

    LOL

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    It would be good to delete this video that I have posted twice because my first comment wasn't showing.

  198. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    I wish RusFed had the same approach towards its neighbors that Israel has.
     
    Then you don’t have a moral conscience that extends to out-groups and neighbors.

    Israel is a pure Machiavellian state.

    They have no compunction in destroying neighboring states if it furthers their foreign policy ends.

    They egged the US to invade Iraq in 03’; successfully lobbied for sanctions against Iran; and Netanyahu is still out and about trying to convince the Americans to attack Iran. Israel’s actions have severe repercussions not just on the victim population; but in Europe when the inevitable wave of migrants hit them.

    They tried to destroy Egypt - a country 20x times large than Israel by population - in the 50s because the Israelis saw the budding relationship between Egypt and America as a threat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

    Israel is a caricature of the devious Machiavellian: “the ends justify the means”.

    Saudi Arabia is rather similar in that regard; except more like Russia in it’s lack of effectiveness.


    Israeli neighbors being Arabs after all, while RusFed’s neighbors are European.
     
    RusFed borders the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Far East.

    I don’t appreciate your sentiment that Israel is succeeding where Russia is failing because they are up against Arabs; whereas Russia is against Europeans.

    You are forgetting that Jews are also running circles around Europeans in North America; silently destroying their demographic majority as they did to Arabs in Palestine.

    The combo of Ashkenazim IQ + ethnocentrism is a formidable enemy to go up against. But even then; I think Jews got lucky in some aspects; if some key decisions were made differently; they would’ve lost. For example, if Nasser hadn’t been stupid enough to drain the Egyptian army in the Yemeni conflict some years before; Egypt could’ve defeated Israel in the first conflict.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I leave you to discuss the Semitic family feuds with your Abrahamic cousins; Aaron, Dima, Laxa and Greasy would probably be better interlocutors than I am. As I wrote above, I don’t discuss Israel with Muslims or Muslim World with Jews. That would be a waste of my neurons. I am convinced that Jews and Arabs deserve each other as neighbors and I wish all Semites moved back to their ancestral lands and left us Goyim Kuffar to mind our own business. The only reason I replied to your comment was because you somehow mixed up RusFed with the never-ending Middle Eastern drama. I believe I have shown that your Israel / RusFed analogy was faulty, now I am done with this discussion.

  199. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.
     
    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities. Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence. These countries are very dissimilar.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Could you spell out more clearly just how exactly these differences in the treatment of their minorities plays out in the day to day world?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    While Russians are often rude and racist to minorities on a personal level, the state uses minorities to maintain control, thereby often privileging them. For example, Kadyrov is given a huge amount of money just for not murdering people. It is essentially tribute. Israel does not appear to do that, but Arab Christian Israeli citizens, I think, are higher earning than Jewish Israeli citizens, so there may be added complications there too. But ultimately Western narratives do not fit onto those countries, because they don't even fit well into the West. However their own internal narratives are even more ill-fitting, hence the intractability of their problems and the desire for Ukrainians to get out, by having a clear border etc.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Wokechoke

  200. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    The negative dialectic seems to have become very powerful in Western societies, clearly in Critical Theory and what has emerged from that, but in other areas as well.

    Afaik opinion polls keep detecting major splits down gender lines on political issues, sometimes they can be really large, 20, 30 points and more. Not the best sign for the future.

    The destructive inclination on the alt right... reminds me of the little videos and clips the younger followers of BAP produce:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq6zJ3zdofo

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    Sad. Ultimate nihilism taking over the world…”the times they are a changing” and not for the better!

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Mr. Hack


    Seems to me time was,
    A little bit less complicated then,
    And I don't mind much,
    I've learned,
    All the angles and the tricks,
    Yeah, that's alright,
    Times are changin'
    We roll with it ...
    These days are gone, most of us have moved on
    Still a few behind, yeah and that's alright
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHssbZMUAFc
  201. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Could you spell out more clearly just how exactly these differences in the treatment of their minorities plays out in the day to day world?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    While Russians are often rude and racist to minorities on a personal level, the state uses minorities to maintain control, thereby often privileging them. For example, Kadyrov is given a huge amount of money just for not murdering people. It is essentially tribute. Israel does not appear to do that, but Arab Christian Israeli citizens, I think, are higher earning than Jewish Israeli citizens, so there may be added complications there too. But ultimately Western narratives do not fit onto those countries, because they don’t even fit well into the West. However their own internal narratives are even more ill-fitting, hence the intractability of their problems and the desire for Ukrainians to get out, by having a clear border etc.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Are you aware of any Ukrainians that are trying to 'get out" of Russia today? Borders between the two countries seem to be all sealed up, no travel allowed. The large Ukrainian minority within Russia was constrained from forming any of it own churches, civic centers etc. The situation in neighboring Kazakhstan was much more open and accommodating towards its Ukrainian minority.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    In the Occident, Chechen's most closely resemble the Albanians. Mountain Muslims. I don't know if they specialize in car theft and heroin smuggling though.

  202. @songbird
    Don't know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.

    I say it because I recently looked at old pictures of a few places I knew and was shocked to see no fences. I mean, like there'd be a picture of one house with no fence and in the same shot you could see that six houses that now have fences didn't have them. And I've seen more than one picture and more than one town like that.

    Not even suggesting it is necessarily about crime. These are still relatively good towns. But it must mean something. Atomization, maybe.

    I suppose when one person puts up a fence, it must really encourage others to do the same.

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack

    Don’t know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.

    To my eye, lot size versus house size for new construction has packed more building on less space. Most people do not want others looking inside their house except for the front windows. This makes fencing essential. When there was more physical separation, well placed trees and shrubs fixed the sight line issue.

    Lawsuits, zoning, and HOA restrictions also play a role. Having a trampoline or pool requires fencing. It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.
     
    Yes, I'll bet one of the biggest influences behind it was leash law. My father used to have a dog, and when he was drafted, it used to go to visit all his friends, looking for him.

    Leash laws must have had some strange and unintended effects on society. Wonder if so many people would despair, if someone's golden retriever was running around visiting everyone. Probably wouldn't be so many pitbulls. Maybe, coyotes? And perhaps some dogs would have bitten the worst of the freaks, and so discouraged them.

    @Mr. Hack
    Reminds me something of Osama's compound in Abbottabad.

    I suppose it makes sense for the area, but it does not make my heart sing like an old mossy stone wall.

    Replies: @A123

  203. @A123
    @Yahya



    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities.

     

    Well yes Israel and Russia have many points of dissimilarity internally; but my argument was focused on their approach to their neighbors.
     
    Both Russia and Jewish Palestine have similar neighbors. And they both are doing their best to handle such uncivilized foes.

    I will not recap the entire list, but the parallels between Muslim terrorists and Ukie Maximalists are is quite strong. They:

    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda -- Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding

    The last point yields the greatest difference in outcome timing.

    Because Russia is on a war footing, the money burn is huge. The U.S. House will appropriate dramatically less for Ukie aggression in the future. The Kiev regime has to find new donors to contribute billions of €uros per month to keep the full war going. There is a hopeful path that the EU will not step up. Thus, Zelensky will depart in the next 6-9 months due to lack of support.

    The Muslim Occupation of Judea and Samaria [MOJS] is just as futile as Ukie Maximalism. Money flows in from the UN, EU, and other sources to keep the low grade fight going. There is hope here too. Previously intransigent parties are beginning to look for an honourable end to 80 years of failed strategy. The Abraham Accords are a visible symbol. The Saudis have offered, albeit indirectly, a new approach: (1)

    The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine

    This is so difficult for Palestinians because they have received probably more emotional and political support from others than any refugee community in modern times. While such support has often involved considerable financial help, it has also generally been more loud political noise than anything substantive that could conceivably help return the Palestinian people to their homes. Yet this still has deluded them and kept them from facing the painful reality that most of their land and homes in historic Palestine have been permanently lost

     

    The Palestinian problem can only be solved today if it is redefined.

    The most logical vehicle for this redefinition and hence for the solution to the Palestine problem is the kingdom of Jordan. Over the last seventy-five years, Jordan has developed into a relatively well-governed state, although the impact of regional political turmoil has caused it to fail economically and become heavily reliant on foreign aid for its survival. It is this Jordanian governance infrastructure that needs to be captured and put to productive use in integrating the millions of Palestinians and Jordanians into a modern, reasonably well-functioning state that would, in an era of real peace and economic integration with Jordan’s neighbors, have a much higher chance of growth and prosperity.
     
    Everyone credible understands that a third intifada will make things worse. Sadly, extremists keep pushing towards another catastrophic failure.

    Why not try a different approach that has a chance at working?

    Is the initial Saudi proposal perfect? Of course not. However, as a starting point, it is vastly better than the current trajectory.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://english.alarabiya.net/in-translation/2022/06/08/The-Hashemite-Kingdom-of-Palestine

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda — Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding

    At least Hugh Crane ain’t an antisemite!

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    At least Hugh Crane ain’t an antisemite!
     
    I do not believe that was ever a consideration.

     
    https://hughcrane.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/peterboroughoffice2.jpg
     

    PEACE 😇
  204. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    While Russians are often rude and racist to minorities on a personal level, the state uses minorities to maintain control, thereby often privileging them. For example, Kadyrov is given a huge amount of money just for not murdering people. It is essentially tribute. Israel does not appear to do that, but Arab Christian Israeli citizens, I think, are higher earning than Jewish Israeli citizens, so there may be added complications there too. But ultimately Western narratives do not fit onto those countries, because they don't even fit well into the West. However their own internal narratives are even more ill-fitting, hence the intractability of their problems and the desire for Ukrainians to get out, by having a clear border etc.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Wokechoke

    Are you aware of any Ukrainians that are trying to ‘get out” of Russia today? Borders between the two countries seem to be all sealed up, no travel allowed. The large Ukrainian minority within Russia was constrained from forming any of it own churches, civic centers etc. The situation in neighboring Kazakhstan was much more open and accommodating towards its Ukrainian minority.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Sorry for my belated reply Mr Hack, Fortunately, I see that Laxa is also a specialist on Noviop affairs. Therefore I leave you in her caring company.

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    I meant that Ukrainians are desperate to get out of the Russian world. That is to get Ukraine out. Their revealed preferences in defending their country in order to seperate themselves makes that very clear.

    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Greasy William

  205. @Mr. Hack
    @Coconuts

    Sad. Ultimate nihilism taking over the world..."the times they are a changing" and not for the better!

    Replies: @sudden death

    Seems to me time was,
    A little bit less complicated then,
    And I don’t mind much,
    I’ve learned,
    All the angles and the tricks,
    Yeah, that’s alright,
    Times are changin’
    We roll with it …
    These days are gone, most of us have moved on
    Still a few behind, yeah and that’s alright

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  206. @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    I have found the original song that was used in the video that you have posted.

    https://youtu.be/QpbHdIrtpNo

    54 million views.

    LOL

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    It would be good to delete this video that I have posted twice because my first comment wasn’t showing.

  207. @Mr. Hack
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Are you aware of any Ukrainians that are trying to 'get out" of Russia today? Borders between the two countries seem to be all sealed up, no travel allowed. The large Ukrainian minority within Russia was constrained from forming any of it own churches, civic centers etc. The situation in neighboring Kazakhstan was much more open and accommodating towards its Ukrainian minority.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry for my belated reply Mr Hack, Fortunately, I see that Laxa is also a specialist on Noviop affairs. Therefore I leave you in her caring company.

  208. @Mr. Hack
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Are you aware of any Ukrainians that are trying to 'get out" of Russia today? Borders between the two countries seem to be all sealed up, no travel allowed. The large Ukrainian minority within Russia was constrained from forming any of it own churches, civic centers etc. The situation in neighboring Kazakhstan was much more open and accommodating towards its Ukrainian minority.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    I meant that Ukrainians are desperate to get out of the Russian world. That is to get Ukraine out. Their revealed preferences in defending their country in order to seperate themselves makes that very clear.

    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.
     
    You are aware that many ethnic Ukrainians in RusFed and ethnic Russians in Ukiestan are part and parcel of the power structure ?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow


    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.
     
    It really isn't. Eastern Slavs are a very, "yeah, whatever" type of people.
  209. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    I meant that Ukrainians are desperate to get out of the Russian world. That is to get Ukraine out. Their revealed preferences in defending their country in order to seperate themselves makes that very clear.

    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Greasy William

    I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    You are aware that many ethnic Ukrainians in RusFed and ethnic Russians in Ukiestan are part and parcel of the power structure ?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, I wrote a comment with exactly that intended meaning.

  210. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123




    • Intentionally target civilians
    • Use their own civilians, even children, as human shields
    • Fabricate the most outrageous propaganda — Pallywood/Ukiewood
    • Are entirely propped up by external funding
     
    At least Hugh Crane ain't an antisemite!

    Replies: @A123

    At least Hugh Crane ain’t an antisemite!

    I do not believe that was ever a consideration.

     

     

    PEACE 😇

  211. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    While Russians are often rude and racist to minorities on a personal level, the state uses minorities to maintain control, thereby often privileging them. For example, Kadyrov is given a huge amount of money just for not murdering people. It is essentially tribute. Israel does not appear to do that, but Arab Christian Israeli citizens, I think, are higher earning than Jewish Israeli citizens, so there may be added complications there too. But ultimately Western narratives do not fit onto those countries, because they don't even fit well into the West. However their own internal narratives are even more ill-fitting, hence the intractability of their problems and the desire for Ukrainians to get out, by having a clear border etc.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Wokechoke

    In the Occident, Chechen’s most closely resemble the Albanians. Mountain Muslims. I don’t know if they specialize in car theft and heroin smuggling though.

  212. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.
     
    You are aware that many ethnic Ukrainians in RusFed and ethnic Russians in Ukiestan are part and parcel of the power structure ?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, I wrote a comment with exactly that intended meaning.

  213. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East – once again.
     
    Israel and RusFed are opposite when it comes to the interests of their core populations and the treatment inflicted upon the troublesome minorities. Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence. These countries are very dissimilar.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Mr. Hack, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Netanyahu (and Palestinian Jews) have friendship with Putin (and Russia)

     
    https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/07/EAjKTMXW4AAnPp4-e1564306206168-640x400.jpg
     

    Those who support Muslim terror have antics at the World Cup.

    It is pretty clear that Israel and Russia are winning. Muslim colonists and Ukie Maximalists are losing.

    PEACE 😇

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

  214. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence.

     

    https://youtu.be/D_ghzLHYuHk

    Replies: @A123, @Ivashka the fool

    Netanyahu (and Palestinian Jews) have friendship with Putin (and Russia)

     

     

    Those who support Muslim terror have antics at the World Cup.

    It is pretty clear that Israel and Russia are winning. Muslim colonists and Ukie Maximalists are losing.

    PEACE 😇

  215. @songbird
    Don't know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.

    I say it because I recently looked at old pictures of a few places I knew and was shocked to see no fences. I mean, like there'd be a picture of one house with no fence and in the same shot you could see that six houses that now have fences didn't have them. And I've seen more than one picture and more than one town like that.

    Not even suggesting it is necessarily about crime. These are still relatively good towns. But it must mean something. Atomization, maybe.

    I suppose when one person puts up a fence, it must really encourage others to do the same.

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack

    Large concrete fences are the norm within Phoenix between neighboring houses. It’s been like this since at least the 197o’s. Most enjoy the privacy that such fences provide, it’s nice when you need to go outdoors quickly and you’re not quite dressed up to make the trip. 🙂 Also, by adding a few exotic plants to your private area, it’s easy to create your own botanical garden, so you don’t have to miss out on any pleasant landscaping views. Tends to keep the sound levels down too. It’s kind of like living in a gated community, except you don’t have to pay any exorbitant fees. Property taxes within Phoenix are some of the lowest in the country.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    It might be pleasant in the individual homestead, but the overall effect when one drives through neighborhoods and there are just thee stone walls everywhere is unpleasant. Fortunately one can just look up and around and see beautiful mountains that change colors depending on the sun's position.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  216. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mr. Hack

    I meant that Ukrainians are desperate to get out of the Russian world. That is to get Ukraine out. Their revealed preferences in defending their country in order to seperate themselves makes that very clear.

    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Greasy William

    As for people of Ukrainian or partial Ukrainian descent in Russia, I imagine it is heartbreaking and difficult for them.

    It really isn’t. Eastern Slavs are a very, “yeah, whatever” type of people.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  217. @Yahya
    @Barbarossa


    I’m not a nationalist either, but I don’t think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.
     
    Blood and soil is another term that has been permanently tarred by association with Nazism; at least in the West. But in its moderate, non-genocidal form; is a fairly reasonable proposition and a good basis to form a nation around. Ideally it’d be applied to a mono-ethnic nation like Japan; where people can just say “Japan belongs to the Japanese” without offending too many people; thus ensuring the continued existence of the Japanese ethnos for the long-term. But mono-ethnic nations are fairly rare. States like Russia, where 85%+ of people are of a single ethnicity, can also make blood and soil nationalism work if they allow some leeway for indigenous minorities; or to splinter off reluctant ones like the Chechens.

    Blood and soil becomes problematic when people get cowardly and greedy and start thinking ethnic cleansing is an appropriate method of attaining a “pure” state. But extremities should not automatically discredit a moderate version of a particular ideology; which is why I also object to people tarring social democratic views with “socialism” or “communism”. Superficially they may be similar; but moderation can make all the difference.

    Jews in the West are understandably suspicious of blood and soil since they tend to be minorities; and were victims of the extreme manifestation of the ideology. But they seem to be all for it in Israel. Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger; which does seem inconsistent (nationalism for me; but not for thee).

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger

    Yes, I did describe myself that way in the past. That was before I went to jail and had my epiphany. Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I’m not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I’m too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).

    nationalism for me; but not for thee

    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by “nationalism” you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

    I will confess that I am not a big fan of any overt displays of patriotism, however. And I’m waaaaay opposed to any sort of militarism or race sperging.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William

    https://www.gospanews.net/en/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Azov-Bataillon.jpg

    , @Yahya
    @Greasy William


    Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I’m not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I’m too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).
     
    There's a religious Jewish commentor around here called Dissident/Post-post Modernist who stongly against the existence of Israel on theological grounds. He's told me before that, quote:

    The security and religious rhetoric mask and sanitize those primary goals of the Zionist movement, allowing it to gain support among the Jewish masses, and even some great rabbis (most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms).

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/washington-post-germany-is-refusing-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-biden-cannot-let-this-stand/#comment-5777417
     
    He linked to this Rabbi who makes the case that Zionism was created to supplant Judaism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=425&v=-I9O9RWqdgk&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2F&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=YaakovShapiro

    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by “nationalism” you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

     

    Well; we are on the same page.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  218. @Greasy William
    @Yahya


    Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger
     
    Yes, I did describe myself that way in the past. That was before I went to jail and had my epiphany. Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I'm not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I'm too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).

    nationalism for me; but not for thee
     
    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by "nationalism" you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

    I will confess that I am not a big fan of any overt displays of patriotism, however. And I'm waaaaay opposed to any sort of militarism or race sperging.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yahya

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  219. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Here's a good example of what Antisemite's call..."early life" or "everyfuckig time".

    recall Ukraine's novel feminist movement Femen? It was apparently a bunch of women from ukraine who opposed human trafficking, opposed domestic violence and even had names like Shevchenko attached to it. a Mix of tits and feminist sloganeering,

    If you watch Australian director Kitty Green's sympathetic documentary "Ukraine is Not a Brothel" a guy called Victor Svyatski shows up and Green eventually puts two and two together that Femen was a harem for a guy. Here's the guy who actually started this AgitPorn as a graduate degree project with a girl he wanted to fuck. He bears an uncanny family resemblance to Zelenskyy in certain respects. "uh oh" I thought. "What's all this? better hit early life!" Lo and behold every fukcing time he might be Jewish. Only Muslim sources seem, to have realized how Victor Svyatski may have an ethnic agenda going to defile Ukrainian women...even then they are being coy in the articles.

    https://theaerogram.com/no-means-no-femens-assault-on-muslim-women/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2013/9/4/man-exposed-as-topless-protest-group-founder

    https://orthochristian.com/64045.html

    There is something odd stirring in Ukriane their "Our Jews"

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    A girl’s gotta eat, eh?

  220. @Greasy William
    @Yahya


    Greasy calls it disgusting but iirc has described himself as an extreme Israeli right-winger
     
    Yes, I did describe myself that way in the past. That was before I went to jail and had my epiphany. Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I'm not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I'm too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).

    nationalism for me; but not for thee
     
    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by "nationalism" you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

    I will confess that I am not a big fan of any overt displays of patriotism, however. And I'm waaaaay opposed to any sort of militarism or race sperging.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Yahya

    Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I’m not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I’m too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).

    There’s a religious Jewish commentor around here called Dissident/Post-post Modernist who stongly against the existence of Israel on theological grounds. He’s told me before that, quote:

    The security and religious rhetoric mask and sanitize those primary goals of the Zionist movement, allowing it to gain support among the Jewish masses, and even some great rabbis (most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms).

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/washington-post-germany-is-refusing-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-biden-cannot-let-this-stand/#comment-5777417

    He linked to this Rabbi who makes the case that Zionism was created to supplant Judaism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=425&v=-I9O9RWqdgk&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2F&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=YaakovShapiro

    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by “nationalism” you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

    Well; we are on the same page.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Yahya


    He linked to this Rabbi who makes the case that Zionism was created to supplant Judaism
     
    That's a HUGE exaggeration but there is no question that the leading political (as opposed to cultural) Zionists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries definitely intended just that.

    most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms
     
    This:
    A) Is false
    B) Really depends on the time period/region

    Even if we are only talking about ultra orthodox, the position towards Zionism can best be described as ambivalence. In the case of Ashkenazi Haredim, it is usually a more negative ambivalence. The Mizrahi Haredim are somewhat more positive although there are cultural, historical and pragmatic reasons that explain the divide, as opposed to purely theological reasons.
  221. @Yahya
    @Greasy William


    Now I have renounced my prior Jewish nationalistic beliefs and I’m not even certain that there should be an Israel, let alone a Greater Israel (I view it as a purely theological question, not a political one, and I’m too much of a theological ignoramus to hold a confident opinion; I am sympathetic with the basics of the Religious Zionist position, however).
     
    There's a religious Jewish commentor around here called Dissident/Post-post Modernist who stongly against the existence of Israel on theological grounds. He's told me before that, quote:

    The security and religious rhetoric mask and sanitize those primary goals of the Zionist movement, allowing it to gain support among the Jewish masses, and even some great rabbis (most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms).

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/washington-post-germany-is-refusing-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-biden-cannot-let-this-stand/#comment-5777417
     
    He linked to this Rabbi who makes the case that Zionism was created to supplant Judaism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=425&v=-I9O9RWqdgk&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unz.com%2F&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=YaakovShapiro

    It really depends on how you define nationalism. If by “nationalism” you mean AfD or Marine Le Pen, then I am a nationalist. If you mean Ben Gvir (nothing against him personally, though), then I am not.

     

    Well; we are on the same page.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    He linked to this Rabbi who makes the case that Zionism was created to supplant Judaism

    That’s a HUGE exaggeration but there is no question that the leading political (as opposed to cultural) Zionists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries definitely intended just that.

    most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms

    This:
    A) Is false
    B) Really depends on the time period/region

    Even if we are only talking about ultra orthodox, the position towards Zionism can best be described as ambivalence. In the case of Ashkenazi Haredim, it is usually a more negative ambivalence. The Mizrahi Haredim are somewhat more positive although there are cultural, historical and pragmatic reasons that explain the divide, as opposed to purely theological reasons.

  222. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Moreover, Israel is a democracy, while RusFed is not. Israel is increasingly supported around the world while RusFed is losing its influence.

     

    https://youtu.be/D_ghzLHYuHk

    Replies: @A123, @Ivashka the fool

    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Ivashka the fool


    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.
     
    Have you scanned other threads on this site? Prevalent attitude of many commenters is that when you have a toothache, Jews are to blame. Reminds me of old mocking Russian song “if there is no water in the river, it means that Jews drank it all”. Newer equally mocking song says: “I smoke, drink, and remain single – it’s all Putin’s fault”. This sums up the comments here from representatives of every country with severe inferiority complex.
    , @A123
    @Ivashka the fool


    I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.
     
    We could return to auto racing.

    I am half way through the 24 Hours of Daytona. The Acura that did not experience problems is leading... Not surprised.

     
    https://maville.com/photosmvi/2023/01/22/P32148786D5599823G_crop_640-330_.jpg
     

    However -- The GTP specification is new and the other Acura is now multiple laps down due to mechanical issues. That should let Cadillac grab 2nd.

    PEACE 😇
  223. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    Have you scanned other threads on this site? Prevalent attitude of many commenters is that when you have a toothache, Jews are to blame. Reminds me of old mocking Russian song “if there is no water in the river, it means that Jews drank it all”. Newer equally mocking song says: “I smoke, drink, and remain single – it’s all Putin’s fault”. This sums up the comments here from representatives of every country with severe inferiority complex.

  224. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, and it gets funnier than that. Much of the Unz crowd loves everything about Jews, except they're not them. And hates everything about white Gentiles, except they are them.

    Of course their image of the two respective categories is a total fantasy*, but the internal contradiction is hilarious.

    * The most amusing way to prove that their respective images of the two is a complete fantasy is to compare their attitude to Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Freud. None of which they understand, but they still attach a lot of different judgements and emotions to. In particular, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer are seen as bastions against the totally evil and subversive Freud. Even though, in reality, the work of those three carries the same meaning! They're reformulations of the same ideas! Uncontroversially. Any person who reads them all will inform you of this as a statement of plain fact.

    Lol



    https://twitter.com/lacancircle/status/1621861499148066817?t=os0iLklm3217w30mpSb17g&s=19

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, there seems to be tremendous cognitive dissonance going on on this site.

    I know that Freud refused to read Nietzsche because he thought so much of his thought foreshadowed his own insights and he wanted to keep his line of inspiration pure, and I know that Nietzsche was a huge admirer of Schopenhauer and greatly inspired by him, although ultimately rejecting his world-pessimism.

    There are also significant and irreconcilable differences between the three, not to be glossed over, but they do form a sort of line of continuous intellectual development.

    I find in general that the Unz White Nationalists are tremendously ignorant of European intellectual and cultural history, in particular the intellectual history of European nihilism and “decadence”, which was such a central feature of European thought and art beginning perhaps shortly after the advent of the Industrial Revolution, and in response to it.

    Kevin McDonald, for instance, has constructed a history of Europe from which all major cultural and intellectual critique of emerging trends embodied in the Industrial Revolution, the new materialism, the new conception of life and the universe as soulless mechanism – I was going to say are excluded from consideration, but it’s more like they simply never existed in his alternate universe.

    It’s as if Blake, Wordsworth, Keats, with their fierce critique of the Industrial Revolution and the new mechanistic view of life, simply didn’t exist, as if Byron and Shelley with their disgust at the political oppression of their times and their celebration of exotic climes, never wrote, as if Baudelaire never expressed his disgust with France and European civilization in his Fleur’s du Mal and Spleen de Paris, as if Flaubert never pilloried the dull philistinism of the new bourgeois culture arising in his Madame Bovary, as of Holderin, Novalis, the Schlegel’s, never put pen to paper critiquing the loss of dimension and imagination emerging in Europe as a result of the new culture of mechanization, as if the Existentialists never wrote about the nihilistic “absurdity” of life in a world without God or meaning, as if Dostoevsky never decried the nihilism, materialism, and rationalism emerging in his time (and all this is just the tip of the iceberg).

    He has constructed an alternative universe in which European culture was monolithic and without significant inner conflict or tension – in other words, without “soul” – until Jews came along and attacked this, er, splendid(ly boring) edifice. It’s not even that this is wrong – it’s boring. He has expunged all the glory and greatness, all the soul, from European cultural life and replaced it with a tale “told by an idiot, signifying nothing” – a modern tale, in which the primary metaphors are caricatures of biology and the tedium of a supposed Darwinism struggle.

    Who would prefer this to the glorious historical development from faith to nihilism, a tragedy in several acts and of world-historical importance?

    Well, I’ve gone off ranting again, so I shall leave off here lol 🙂

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Simple people looking for a scapegoat love a straightforward moral dichotomy. I haven't really paid attention to McDonald but I suppose that his moral fable of Western Civilization and the Jews is quite useful for his purposes.

    It makes everyone feel special to have an outlet to externalize their frustrations!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  225. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya


    That’s slightly more than Ukrainian deaths in absolute sense; and way more in a per capita sense.
     
    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely. The Palestinian deaths include combatants.

    Furthermore, this is over 80 years!

    My point is that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is perhaps the least bloody dynamic in the whole of the Middle East.

    I'm not saying it is fine. I am instead saying that I don't know what the Israelis could do better. Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.

    I know you don't like the implications of this observation and what they say about your people, but at least I don't think your people have to be like they are. It may be totally their responsibility that they are like they are, but that's exactly why they are able to change how they relate to each other.

    If you find this sentiment racist or offensive, that's your problem. The person unwilling to see the bloody and otherwise mediocre reality of the Arab peoples in the last 7 decades, because it would cause them to feel too much disdain for those peoples is the racist by my definition. Regardless of what excuses they condescendingly make for the Arab peoples' failures.

    My criticism comes from assumptions of equality, whereas the normal third world "it wasn't me" type of deflection of responsibility comes from assumptions of inferiority. I hope you can recognise this. And tell true friend from foe.

    Replies: @Yahya

    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely.

    Well whatever the true figure (which no-one knows), I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest. My point is that it’s fundamentally hypocritical to say all the things LatW has said about the “tragedy suffered by Ukraine”; then turn around and endorse Israel and its policies. The numbers may differ; but the underlying principle is the same.

    Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.

    Again; just another form of whataboutism.

    It doesn’t matter what “Arab states” would or would not have done if they were in Israel’s position; because a) they are not in Israel’s position, so you have no basis for your conjecture other than gut instinct (so scientific and reliable a technique!) b) what “Arab states” do has no bearing on the question of justice in Palestine. Palestinians aren’t responsible for the actions (real or conjectural) of other Arab states.

    But you are hardly alone among Israeli advocates to deploy this tried-and-true technique of deflecting criticism away from Israel. These whataboutisms (“But, but… the what about the Turkish genocide of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians!”) are just so stupid and tiresome. Why the heck should Turkey or Saudi Arabia’s actions give Israel the right to forcibly expel Palestinians from their territory? The one has no bearing on the other. It’s just a duplicitous technique to deflect criticism and avoid responsibility.

    If you want to specifically say that “Palestinians would’ve been just as oppressive if they were in Israel’s position”; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel’s position; because they weren’t the ones going to the shtetls in Europe to colonize and expel the European Jews there; but rather the European Jews were the ones to come to them.

    It was the Palestinians; tilling the soil and shepherding their sheep; innocently minding their business; when a group of Polish, Russian and German Jews descended upon them with the express intent of ethnically cleansing them off the land to make space for a majority Jewish state.

    Now, you could say that Jews needed a place to go after being exterminated in Europe. And that would be a reasonable position to hold. In fact that’s the position I used to take just a few years ago; and about the only argument I’m willing to entertain for why Ashkenazi Jews have a right to stay in Palestine (Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are a different topic; I’ll leave that aside for now).

    I don’t know if you’d believe me; but only 4 years ago you would’ve found me sympathetic to Israel; because while Ashkenazi Jews follow a different religion; I basically view them as culturally very similar to myself. In my behavior and interests I’m probably closer to a secular Ashkenazi Jew than I am to the average Palestinian Arab. I also used to admire the Jewish aptitude for business and scholarly interests; two activities I hold in high regard. I still do to an extent; but these considerations have taken a back seat once I started delving more into the history of the Zionist-Arab conflict.

    Simply put: Ashkenazi Jews have screwed over the Palestinians so thoroughly and deeply that I now regret having been sympathetic to Israel, or god forbid defended their actions in a moment of ignorance. The more I learnt about the topic; the more this feeling of revulsion at the injustice intensified; and just the shameless manner in which Zionist Jews propagandized the world that they were victims; when instead they were the colonizing aggressors; made me realize that I was wrong and Palestinians had it right not to trust the Jews all along.

    Probably if I was born in 1920s Palestine I would’ve been one of these naïve Arabs who said “let our Brother Abraham come in; they’re smart and educated; and they need refuge from the carnage happening in Europe. We’ve been living with Sephardic Jews for millennia; no reason why the Ashkenazim would’ve been different”. And boy would I have been naïve and wrong. The Palestinians to their credit had the Jews pegged straight all along; they just weren’t capable enough to defend themselves against Zionist aggression.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Yahya


    If you want to specifically say that “Palestinians would’ve been just as oppressive if they were in Israel’s position”; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel’s position;
     
    Of course nothing is ever 100% identical. We do know that:

    • Jordanian forces tried to ethnically cleanse Jews from the West Bank ~1947. Even now selling West Bank "Pali" land to an indigenous Palestinian Jew is punishable, possibly by execution.

    • Abbas is in the 19th year of his 4 year term. Even West Bank Muslims know he is corrupt: (1)


    according to Muhammad Rashid, Arafat’s economic and financial advisor and head of the Palestinian Investment Fund, Abbas has a net worth of over $100 million. That’s beside the wealth of his sons, who’ve amassed their personal fortunes for such things as monopolies on imported cigarettes and public works projects.

    Another PA official, former security minister Mohammed Dahlan, has claimed that $1.3b. vanished from the Palestinian Investment Fund since it was turned over to Abbas’ control in 2005.
     

    • Hamas has a track record of land confiscation and property destruction in Gaza: (2)

    Hamas's ongoing efforts to raze entire villages in the Gaza Strip is seen by many Palestinians as.... part of widespread corruption in Hamas, whose leaders want to seize lands for their personal use.

     

    Sakallah praised social media users for shedding light on the Hamas crimes against the residents of Umm al-Nasr. "What bothered and provoked me the most was that the official spokesmen for Hamas did not issue statements," he remarked.

    An unnamed resident of Umm al-Nasr was quoted as saying:


    "What happened is a barbaric and brutal Hamas-Iranian attack on the poor people in the Gaza Strip, who have been very patient with the killings, poverty, and hunger resulting from the policies of Hamas. The people of the Gaza Strip have paid with their blood as a result of the policies and practices of Hamas."
     
    Egyptian writer Ali Rajab pointed out the hypocrisy of Hamas in dealing with the Bedouin communities in Israel and the Gaza Strip. Rajab said that while Hamas has been trying to present itself as the defender of the Bedouin citizens of Israel, it is targeting the Bedouin living under its control in the Gaza Strip by demolishing their homes and confiscating their lands.
     
    Do you actually believe that Hamas and Fatah would provide good governance if they had even more authoritarian power than they have now?

    One of the reasons why the Saudi proposal for Hashimite rule is so appealing. It would turf out Hamas, Fatah, PLO, and others who have a proven track record of irresponsibility.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) From 2015 -- https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-10-year-klepto-dictatorship-of-Mahmoud-Abbas-386752

    (2) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18613/palestinians-house-demolitions

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    I see what you've written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don't think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.

    So, while I doubt this is how you will perceive the exchange, I won't be dishonest with you and portray my opinion of what you've written in any other way.

    I'll also add that I don't care for historical "he said, she saids." I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible. War includes Israeli military occupation and it includes Palestinian terrorism. I doubt we'll agree on a likely route to realistically ending those two either, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    , @AP
    @Yahya

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn't complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine - what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Wokechoke, @A123, @Dmitry

  226. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    I'm not a nationalist either, but I don't think that blood and soil are bullshit. Specificity of place and people are the fundamental building blocks of culture.

    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi's?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Greasy William

    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi’s?

    Something like that

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    But what is the point of that? I guess just personal gratification, but that is nothing to build a civilization or society on. We have that now and it seems to suck.

    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?

    To me these seem like fundamental problems and symptoms of a dysfunctional society. How do you see the libertarian/ self interested consumer model as yielding a functional society?

    Replies: @Greasy William

  227. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely.
     
    Well whatever the true figure (which no-one knows), I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest. My point is that it’s fundamentally hypocritical to say all the things LatW has said about the “tragedy suffered by Ukraine”; then turn around and endorse Israel and its policies. The numbers may differ; but the underlying principle is the same.

    Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.
     
    Again; just another form of whataboutism.

    It doesn’t matter what “Arab states” would or would not have done if they were in Israel's position; because a) they are not in Israel's position, so you have no basis for your conjecture other than gut instinct (so scientific and reliable a technique!) b) what "Arab states" do has no bearing on the question of justice in Palestine. Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions (real or conjectural) of other Arab states.

    But you are hardly alone among Israeli advocates to deploy this tried-and-true technique of deflecting criticism away from Israel. These whataboutisms ("But, but… the what about the Turkish genocide of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians!") are just so stupid and tiresome. Why the heck should Turkey or Saudi Arabia's actions give Israel the right to forcibly expel Palestinians from their territory? The one has no bearing on the other. It's just a duplicitous technique to deflect criticism and avoid responsibility.

    If you want to specifically say that "Palestinians would've been just as oppressive if they were in Israel's position"; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel's position; because they weren't the ones going to the shtetls in Europe to colonize and expel the European Jews there; but rather the European Jews were the ones to come to them.

    It was the Palestinians; tilling the soil and shepherding their sheep; innocently minding their business; when a group of Polish, Russian and German Jews descended upon them with the express intent of ethnically cleansing them off the land to make space for a majority Jewish state.

    Now, you could say that Jews needed a place to go after being exterminated in Europe. And that would be a reasonable position to hold. In fact that's the position I used to take just a few years ago; and about the only argument I'm willing to entertain for why Ashkenazi Jews have a right to stay in Palestine (Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are a different topic; I'll leave that aside for now).

    I don't know if you'd believe me; but only 4 years ago you would've found me sympathetic to Israel; because while Ashkenazi Jews follow a different religion; I basically view them as culturally very similar to myself. In my behavior and interests I'm probably closer to a secular Ashkenazi Jew than I am to the average Palestinian Arab. I also used to admire the Jewish aptitude for business and scholarly interests; two activities I hold in high regard. I still do to an extent; but these considerations have taken a back seat once I started delving more into the history of the Zionist-Arab conflict.

    Simply put: Ashkenazi Jews have screwed over the Palestinians so thoroughly and deeply that I now regret having been sympathetic to Israel, or god forbid defended their actions in a moment of ignorance. The more I learnt about the topic; the more this feeling of revulsion at the injustice intensified; and just the shameless manner in which Zionist Jews propagandized the world that they were victims; when instead they were the colonizing aggressors; made me realize that I was wrong and Palestinians had it right not to trust the Jews all along.

    Probably if I was born in 1920s Palestine I would've been one of these naïve Arabs who said "let our Brother Abraham come in; they're smart and educated; and they need refuge from the carnage happening in Europe. We've been living with Sephardic Jews for millennia; no reason why the Ashkenazim would've been different". And boy would I have been naïve and wrong. The Palestinians to their credit had the Jews pegged straight all along; they just weren't capable enough to defend themselves against Zionist aggression.

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    If you want to specifically say that “Palestinians would’ve been just as oppressive if they were in Israel’s position”; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel’s position;

    Of course nothing is ever 100% identical. We do know that:

    • Jordanian forces tried to ethnically cleanse Jews from the West Bank ~1947. Even now selling West Bank “Pali” land to an indigenous Palestinian Jew is punishable, possibly by execution.

    • Abbas is in the 19th year of his 4 year term. Even West Bank Muslims know he is corrupt: (1)

    according to Muhammad Rashid, Arafat’s economic and financial advisor and head of the Palestinian Investment Fund, Abbas has a net worth of over $100 million. That’s beside the wealth of his sons, who’ve amassed their personal fortunes for such things as monopolies on imported cigarettes and public works projects.

    Another PA official, former security minister Mohammed Dahlan, has claimed that $1.3b. vanished from the Palestinian Investment Fund since it was turned over to Abbas’ control in 2005.

    • Hamas has a track record of land confiscation and property destruction in Gaza: (2)

    Hamas’s ongoing efforts to raze entire villages in the Gaza Strip is seen by many Palestinians as…. part of widespread corruption in Hamas, whose leaders want to seize lands for their personal use.

    Sakallah praised social media users for shedding light on the Hamas crimes against the residents of Umm al-Nasr. “What bothered and provoked me the most was that the official spokesmen for Hamas did not issue statements,” he remarked.

    An unnamed resident of Umm al-Nasr was quoted as saying:

    “What happened is a barbaric and brutal Hamas-Iranian attack on the poor people in the Gaza Strip, who have been very patient with the killings, poverty, and hunger resulting from the policies of Hamas. The people of the Gaza Strip have paid with their blood as a result of the policies and practices of Hamas.”

    Egyptian writer Ali Rajab pointed out the hypocrisy of Hamas in dealing with the Bedouin communities in Israel and the Gaza Strip. Rajab said that while Hamas has been trying to present itself as the defender of the Bedouin citizens of Israel, it is targeting the Bedouin living under its control in the Gaza Strip by demolishing their homes and confiscating their lands.

    Do you actually believe that Hamas and Fatah would provide good governance if they had even more authoritarian power than they have now?

    One of the reasons why the Saudi proposal for Hashimite rule is so appealing. It would turf out Hamas, Fatah, PLO, and others who have a proven track record of irresponsibility.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) From 2015 — https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-10-year-klepto-dictatorship-of-Mahmoud-Abbas-386752

    (2) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18613/palestinians-house-demolitions

  228. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Large concrete fences are the norm within Phoenix between neighboring houses. It's been like this since at least the 197o's. Most enjoy the privacy that such fences provide, it's nice when you need to go outdoors quickly and you're not quite dressed up to make the trip. :-) Also, by adding a few exotic plants to your private area, it's easy to create your own botanical garden, so you don't have to miss out on any pleasant landscaping views. Tends to keep the sound levels down too. It's kind of like living in a gated community, except you don't have to pay any exorbitant fees. Property taxes within Phoenix are some of the lowest in the country.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/b1/57/c3b15747f1ff116ab6f4236f64becb20.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    It might be pleasant in the individual homestead, but the overall effect when one drives through neighborhoods and there are just thee stone walls everywhere is unpleasant. Fortunately one can just look up and around and see beautiful mountains that change colors depending on the sun’s position.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    It does take a little getting used to. A close friend of mine had a small pool within his "gated property", actually not within Phoenix itself but in a nice nearby suburb. He had a small Ukie style vegetable garden within (cucumbers, tomatoes, garlic, onions, peppers etc) and then turned his whole backyard into an arboretum of exotic cacti, citrus trees etc. He must have had several hundred plants there, that he took meticulous care of. He was a great cook too and his garden parties were a lot of fun. He passed away a few years back, and I miss him a lot and his good natured personality. His backyard was like no other ...just for him, his wife children and his close friends.

    My family in Minnesota have a large home on the banks of a large lake/river reservoir. The views from the back picture windows and veranda are quite expansive. The other side of the lake is about 1/2 mile away. The rest of the large yard is surrounded with large oak trees. All around, plenty to look at. Good thing that their neighbors are decent and helpful folks.

    Two different types of homes, within two different climate zones, and I enjoy them both.

    And don't get me started about my good friend who lives in tropical Cost Rica.....

  229. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    ME Arabs are good at effusive posturing. Anyway, I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @A123

    I am annoyed by all this Semito-centric discussion.

    We could return to auto racing.

    I am half way through the 24 Hours of Daytona. The Acura that did not experience problems is leading… Not surprised.

     

     

    However — The GTP specification is new and the other Acura is now multiple laps down due to mechanical issues. That should let Cadillac grab 2nd.

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  230. @songbird
    @Yahya

    In my estimation, the Euros who support Israel are generally non-racists. (And you can thank antiracism for making them that way.) Anti racists (as in true believers) would be a separate category. (And that is because they are signaling brown).

    Some number of racists might support Israel. But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color. (by definition, racists are the people most inclined to think past skin color.) Most racists seem to be anti-ZOG, where it is legal.

    As to me, I deeply resent the influence Israel has on foreign policy, as well their ability to extract resources. But I also deeply resent both sides for insisting it is the most important thing going on in the world, and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it, when there is a snowball's chance in hell that either has my racial interests at heart.

    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them? Where is the sympathy for modern Europeans among Arabs other than niche commenters who probably make bank on it? In fact, I've seen one wealthy Arab finance some real nasty propaganda video that they showed on public television here. Many Jews were on his payroll.

    Replies: @Yahya

    But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color.

    You have reading comprehension problems. I never mentioned skin color; because a) that’s not the primary basis for race, b) I am not an American ignoramus who thinks Israelis are “white” and Palestinians “brown”. Israelis are lighter on average; but there’s significant overlap in skin color between Israelis and Palestinians.

    Also you are doing that thing again where you conflate my criticisms of individuals like LatW with a broader criticism of “racists” as a group. While I do not like racists and don’t mind criticizing them; that wasn’t my intention in that specific post. I don’t know what their views are on the Israeli-Palestine conflict; or if they have a consistent one either. You simply misinterpreted me.

    and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it,

    I don’t fault you for not taking sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict. In fact I commend you for it. My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel; especially if they hypocritically view Russian behavior vis-a-vis Ukraine as the worst thing to happen since Hitler; but see Israel’s similar (except more successful) behavior as something worthy or admirable.

    But there’s nothing wrong with being neutral in any particular conflict. No-one is obligated to opine on each and every issue around the globe. But if you’re going to express an opinion; it’s good to be consistent in your views.

    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them?

    Well Arab countries took in Armenian refugees during the genocide. Many of the survivors fled to the Northern parts of Syria around Aleppo; and some of their descendants are still there and in Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon. Interestingly they are disproportionately represented in music and television (Lena Chemamyan, Julia Boutros, Seta Hagopian etc.). There’s this one Iraqi-Armenian called Beatrice Ohanessian who was the first concert pianist in Iraq:

    I once read a book called “An Egyptian Soldier” by an Armenian who had been drafted during the Egyptian-Israeli conflict. He described the misery he endured serving in the Egyptian army; to which he felt no loyalty to. He tried to explain to his officers that he is a foreigner and should be exempted from service; but they were in need of educated soldiers. He eventually immigrated to Canada where he wrote the book basically shitting on Egypt and the army. I was kind of irritated that he didn’t say anything nice about Egypt even though it granted his family shelter from the genocide. But perhaps he had reason for feeling resentful. The Armenian president has expressed gratitude on behalf of Armenians on the anniversary of the genocide though:

    The most memorable book I’ve read on this topic is called Martyred Armenia; authored by Faiz El-Ghusein. It’s a short eyewitness account of the genocide by a Syrian elder who was exiled to southeastern Turkey by the Ottoman authorities and witnessed the events first-hand. It was very saddening to read.

    [MORE]

    Some excerpts:

    Is it right that these imposters, who pretend to be the supports of Islam and the Khilâfat, the protectors of the Moslems, should transgress the command of God, transgress the Koran, the Traditions of the Prophet, and humanity? Truly, they have committed an act at which Islam is revolted, as well as all Moslems and all the peoples of the earth, be they Moslems, Christians, Jews, or idolators. As God lives, it is a shameful deed, the like of which has not been done by any people counting themselves as civilised.

    ———-

    Narrative of a Provincial Governor.—We were talking of the courage and good qualities of the Armenians, and the Governor of the place, who was with us, told us a singular story. He said: “According to orders, I collected all the remaining Armenians, consisting of 17 women and some children, amongst whom was a child of 3 years old, diseased, who had never been able to walk. When the butchers began slaughtering the women and the turn of the child’s mother came, he rose up on his feet and ran for a space, then falling down. We were astonished at this, and at his understanding that his mother was to be killed. A gendarme went and took hold of him, and laid him dead on his dead mother.” He also said that he had seen one of these women eating a piece of bread as she went up to the butcher, another smoking a cigarette, and that it was as though they cared nothing for death.

    ———-

    After passing the night at Sivrek we left early in the morning. As we approached Diarbekir the corpses became more numerous, and on our route we met companies of women going to Sivrek under guard of gendarmes, weary and wretched, the traces of tears and misery plain on their faces—a plight to bring tears of blood from stones, and move the compassion of beasts of prey. What, in God’s name, had these women done? Had they made war on the Turks, or killed even one of them? What was the crime of these hapless creatures, whose sole offence was that they were Armenians, skilled in the management of their homes and the training of their children, with no thought beyond the comfort of their husbands and sons, and the fulfilment of their duties towards them.

    ———-

    I ask you, O Moslems—is this to be counted as a crime? Think for a moment. What was the fault of these poor women? Was it in their being superior to the Turkish women in every respect? Even assuming that their men had merited such treatment, is it right that these women should be dealt with in a manner from which wild beasts would recoil? God has said in the Koran: “Do not load one with another’s burthens,” that is, Let not one be punished for another.

    What had these weak women done, and what had their infants done? Can the men of the Turkish Government bring forward even a feeble proof to justify their action and to convince the people of Islam, who hold that action for unlawful and reject it? No; they can find no word to say before a people whose usages are founded on justice, and their laws on wisdom and reason.

    ———-

    Children Perishing of Hunger and Thirst.—An Arab of El-Jezîra, who accompanied me on my flight from Diarbekir, told me that he had gone with a Sheikh of his tribe, men and camels, to buy grain from the sons of Ibrahim Pasha El-Mellili. On their way they saw 17 children, the eldest not more than 13 years old, dying of hunger and thirst. The Arab said: “We had with us a small water-skin and a little food. When the Sheikh saw them he wept with pity, and gave them food and water with his own hands; but what good could this small supply do to them? We reflected that if we took them with us to the Pasha, they would be killed, as the Kurds were killing all Armenians by order of the authorities; and our Arabs were at five days’ distance from the place. So we had no choice but to leave them to the mercy of God, and on our return, a week later, we found them all dead.”

    ———-

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yahya


    My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel
     
    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn't cuck, and they admire that - though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

    Honestly, don't know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don't. The most pro-European among them (rare individuals) seem to insist that the rights of Europeans are only actualized because of the Holocaust. (That is, the example of the Holocaust justifies why someone would not want to become a minority) It is pretty grating.

    Thanks, for the excerpt.

    Replies: @Yahya

  231. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely.
     
    Well whatever the true figure (which no-one knows), I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest. My point is that it’s fundamentally hypocritical to say all the things LatW has said about the “tragedy suffered by Ukraine”; then turn around and endorse Israel and its policies. The numbers may differ; but the underlying principle is the same.

    Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.
     
    Again; just another form of whataboutism.

    It doesn’t matter what “Arab states” would or would not have done if they were in Israel's position; because a) they are not in Israel's position, so you have no basis for your conjecture other than gut instinct (so scientific and reliable a technique!) b) what "Arab states" do has no bearing on the question of justice in Palestine. Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions (real or conjectural) of other Arab states.

    But you are hardly alone among Israeli advocates to deploy this tried-and-true technique of deflecting criticism away from Israel. These whataboutisms ("But, but… the what about the Turkish genocide of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians!") are just so stupid and tiresome. Why the heck should Turkey or Saudi Arabia's actions give Israel the right to forcibly expel Palestinians from their territory? The one has no bearing on the other. It's just a duplicitous technique to deflect criticism and avoid responsibility.

    If you want to specifically say that "Palestinians would've been just as oppressive if they were in Israel's position"; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel's position; because they weren't the ones going to the shtetls in Europe to colonize and expel the European Jews there; but rather the European Jews were the ones to come to them.

    It was the Palestinians; tilling the soil and shepherding their sheep; innocently minding their business; when a group of Polish, Russian and German Jews descended upon them with the express intent of ethnically cleansing them off the land to make space for a majority Jewish state.

    Now, you could say that Jews needed a place to go after being exterminated in Europe. And that would be a reasonable position to hold. In fact that's the position I used to take just a few years ago; and about the only argument I'm willing to entertain for why Ashkenazi Jews have a right to stay in Palestine (Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are a different topic; I'll leave that aside for now).

    I don't know if you'd believe me; but only 4 years ago you would've found me sympathetic to Israel; because while Ashkenazi Jews follow a different religion; I basically view them as culturally very similar to myself. In my behavior and interests I'm probably closer to a secular Ashkenazi Jew than I am to the average Palestinian Arab. I also used to admire the Jewish aptitude for business and scholarly interests; two activities I hold in high regard. I still do to an extent; but these considerations have taken a back seat once I started delving more into the history of the Zionist-Arab conflict.

    Simply put: Ashkenazi Jews have screwed over the Palestinians so thoroughly and deeply that I now regret having been sympathetic to Israel, or god forbid defended their actions in a moment of ignorance. The more I learnt about the topic; the more this feeling of revulsion at the injustice intensified; and just the shameless manner in which Zionist Jews propagandized the world that they were victims; when instead they were the colonizing aggressors; made me realize that I was wrong and Palestinians had it right not to trust the Jews all along.

    Probably if I was born in 1920s Palestine I would've been one of these naïve Arabs who said "let our Brother Abraham come in; they're smart and educated; and they need refuge from the carnage happening in Europe. We've been living with Sephardic Jews for millennia; no reason why the Ashkenazim would've been different". And boy would I have been naïve and wrong. The Palestinians to their credit had the Jews pegged straight all along; they just weren't capable enough to defend themselves against Zionist aggression.

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don’t think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.

    So, while I doubt this is how you will perceive the exchange, I won’t be dishonest with you and portray my opinion of what you’ve written in any other way.

    I’ll also add that I don’t care for historical “he said, she saids.” I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible. War includes Israeli military occupation and it includes Palestinian terrorism. I doubt we’ll agree on a likely route to realistically ending those two either, but I hope you can understand where I’m coming from.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow


    @Yahya
    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy.
     
    The problem with the underlying situation is summed up by this succinct phrase:


    ================================================
        The MUSLIM cries out in pain as he strikes you!
    ================================================

    It is denial about Islam's role as the *source* of the problem. Intentionally targeting Jewish children for terrorist Jihadi violence crossed a line, and that irrevocable decision cannot be unmade.

    The original idea of Zionism was a "Nation for Jews". Decades of senseless violence by Muslims created a very different concept. The need for collective defense forged inexorable pressure yielding a "Jewish Nation". The door for amicable, neighborly coexistence is permanently closed and nailed shut by Islamic terror.


    I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible.

     

    With the requirement of "soon" the key element of any plan has to be separation. The sides cannot fight if they cannot get at each other.

    Muslims need an honourable and financially viable way to move away from the conflict zone. New Muslim Palestine needs to be run by a reliable party, such as an appointed Egyptian or Jordanian Governor, that can suppress groups that spawned the violence and terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank.

    New Muslim Palestine would not have to exist under minimum necessary security required to protect Jewish children. Muslim youth would be able hope for a future other than dying in a perpetually losing fight.

    Yes. That is much easier to say than execute. However, it is the only option that directly & immediately offers relief.

    PEACE 😇

    , @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don’t think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.
     
    Lol, it's you who hasn't addressed any of my points in a substantive manner; just engaging in your usual psychoanalyses and ad hominem arguments.

    I agree the Palestinian side needs to cease the terrorism; and Israel its occupation.

    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2pOnAyF4ts&ab_channel=NetaElkayam

    Language can mean all the difference between peace and conflict.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  232. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.

    For instance, some not very intelligent people think the Chinese elites don't import foreigners because they are loyal to their ethnic kin. In fact, the Chinese working population is perhaps the most docile, cowed, and hardest working in the world. Consequently, they are ruthlessly exploited to enrich their elite - there is no need to import foreigners.

    I guarantee you, if in the West Whites were willing to work the Chinese 9am-9pm, 6 days a week, with weak to nonexistent protections and rights, showing extreme deference to an elite that drives around in flashy cars, parties with beautiful girls, and lives in grand mansions, then Western elites would show "ethnic loyalty".

    In the West, the average man and woman demands a level of respect, safety, and a standard of living that makes him sadly rather unattractive to an elite. This is a problem that was noted beginning in the 19th century.

    At that time, it was beginning to be noted by many commentators for instance that the Chinese can significantly "underlive" White people, who demanded a much higher standard of living, and that this was the chief Chinese advantage as workers - he'd live in appalling conditions, accept a paltry wage, was docile and acquiescent, and work long hours.

    Likewise in the Muslim world, you have an extremely wealthy elite and an exploited, impoverished, and oppressed population on a scale inconceivable in the West - this isn't "preserving the population", this is an elite enriching itself as best it can. Look at Yahya to get a sense of the sheer contempt this wealthy elite feels for it's population and the importance it places on money as a marker of status.

    Moreover, Muslim lands are not economically dynamic or attractive to outsiders, so it's hard to say what the elite would do if there was demand to immigrate and it benefited them (actually, not that hard :) )

    You may point to the Gulf Arabs as countries where exceptions to the above rule - but these are countries whose wealth depends entirely on technical expertise that the natives cannot supply. In other words, the entire native population cannot compete with outsiders whose expertise is absolutely crucial to their wealth. So if they allowed immigration on an equal basis, the elites would quickly be dominated and supplanted and a new foreign elite arise, that could easily form an alliance with the workers if they treated them better. In this scenario, it makes most sense for the elites to actually be somewhat generous to the population and form a united front.

    So I think you right wingers who see "ethnic loyalty" and don't understand the power dynamics of these countries are rather touchingly naive :)

    If you look at countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, even Egypt, and you see "health" - I don't know what to say, really. I think you'd have to be an authoritarian or someone with exploitative elite tendencies themselves to see something worth emulating here.

    All that being said, I'm sure there are some good things about the Muslim world today that we can learn from.

    @ Ivashka - that's a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. "Motivated reasoning" often leads to much more acute insights than "objective" reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I'm not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    @ Ivashka – that’s a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. “Motivated reasoning” often leads to much more acute insights than “objective” reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I’m not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense 🙂

    Cool, keep it going.

  233. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    It might be pleasant in the individual homestead, but the overall effect when one drives through neighborhoods and there are just thee stone walls everywhere is unpleasant. Fortunately one can just look up and around and see beautiful mountains that change colors depending on the sun's position.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It does take a little getting used to. A close friend of mine had a small pool within his “gated property”, actually not within Phoenix itself but in a nice nearby suburb. He had a small Ukie style vegetable garden within (cucumbers, tomatoes, garlic, onions, peppers etc) and then turned his whole backyard into an arboretum of exotic cacti, citrus trees etc. He must have had several hundred plants there, that he took meticulous care of. He was a great cook too and his garden parties were a lot of fun. He passed away a few years back, and I miss him a lot and his good natured personality. His backyard was like no other …just for him, his wife children and his close friends.

    My family in Minnesota have a large home on the banks of a large lake/river reservoir. The views from the back picture windows and veranda are quite expansive. The other side of the lake is about 1/2 mile away. The rest of the large yard is surrounded with large oak trees. All around, plenty to look at. Good thing that their neighbors are decent and helpful folks.

    Two different types of homes, within two different climate zones, and I enjoy them both.

    And don’t get me started about my good friend who lives in tropical Cost Rica…..

  234. @sudden death
    @QCIC

    You seem to be operating under faulty assumption, that RF is not intensively airbombing UA, because they are sort of kindhearted, but current Kremlin ruler would be more than happy to drop plenty of dumb bombs onto electrical grid or cities insted of wasting way more pricey and rarer rocketry stocks.

    UA always had and still has more than enough reliable anti-air systems (S-300 and Buk), which would make potential RF aircraft losses entirely irreplacable with current domestic production rate capabilities.

    Even absolutely hardcore old Soviet vatnik, former USSR air force colonel Viktor Alksnis, who is supporting Zoperation and wants to drop nukes on UA, is admitting it lately and explains the causes as simply usual banal incompetence and corruption in the army, which are blossoming under Putin's everlasting rule:


    In connection with the problems of our aviation, especially strike aviation, in Ukraine, when, due to serious losses, it is practically not used in the depth of the tactical, and even more so in the operational depth of the enemy’s defense, the question arises about the use of such aviation weapons that make it possible to strike at the enemy, without entering the zone of destruction of its air defense.

    Since we have been unable to suppress the air defense of Ukraine, this is the best way to solve this problem. And in this regard, we recall precise gliding bombs, which are in service with the United States and its allies and are widely used by them in military conflicts, but we don’t seem to have them in our own service, which is puzzling.
     

    https://vk.com/id701885602?w=wall701885602_57190

    Replies: @QCIC

    Thanks for mentioning Alksnis.

    I am aware the RF has delivered many airstrikes and early on lost many aircraft. However, I also noticed they destroyed most of the Ukrainian S-300, Buk and older systems, though possibly not all that are emplaced near civilians. I doubt the Western replacement SAMs will fair much better.

    I think the RF does have fewer precision air dropped weapons and has not used them for as many strikes as the West would have in similar circumstances. I think without the lower cost precision weapons they are forced to fly riskier strikes. Is it possible the vatnik is simply lobbying for faster production of these weapons?

    This is different than the heavy bombing I mentioned. Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months? I am curious about the details I may have overlooked. This would be something like at least a handful of bombers dropping a full load of bombs on some broad area target as opposed to more surgical strikes with a missile. I don’t think the Ukrainian air defenses can prevent such attacks.

    I still view the Russian air campaign in the SMO as a “kid-gloves” treatment.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @QCIC


    Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months?
     
    I know only one instance, but the bombing did not last long. When “Azov” wonna-be Nazis were surrounded on the territory of Azovstal plant in Mariupol the RF started bombing that area, but stopped when it transpired that those “heroes” brought civilian hostages with them.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  235. @china-russia-all-the-way
    @LatW

    I don't care about the wellbeing of Lithuania and I don't pretend to. Let's get that out of the way of this conversation because it is not relevant to the important point.

    The important point is there are "powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels."

    Do you agree or reject the contention?

    Replies: @LatW

    I don’t care about the wellbeing of Lithuania and I don’t pretend to.

    I know. That’s why I asked you a rhetorical question because I saw on several ocassions that you expressed this deep concern for the racial future of that region. This is why I asked, rhetorically, what drives your deep concern for these peoples, when we never heard from you when we really needed help.

    The important point is there are “powerful cultural forces shaping societies and instilling core morality in the young under the influence of Washington and Brussels.”

    I do not agree with the categorical stance expressed here – I believe that there is quite bit of freedom and wiggle room left. Things are great in places like Lithuania and Poland right now. Life is quite good.

  236. @QCIC
    @sudden death

    Thanks for mentioning Alksnis.

    I am aware the RF has delivered many airstrikes and early on lost many aircraft. However, I also noticed they destroyed most of the Ukrainian S-300, Buk and older systems, though possibly not all that are emplaced near civilians. I doubt the Western replacement SAMs will fair much better.

    I think the RF does have fewer precision air dropped weapons and has not used them for as many strikes as the West would have in similar circumstances. I think without the lower cost precision weapons they are forced to fly riskier strikes. Is it possible the vatnik is simply lobbying for faster production of these weapons?

    This is different than the heavy bombing I mentioned. Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months? I am curious about the details I may have overlooked. This would be something like at least a handful of bombers dropping a full load of bombs on some broad area target as opposed to more surgical strikes with a missile. I don't think the Ukrainian air defenses can prevent such attacks.

    I still view the Russian air campaign in the SMO as a "kid-gloves" treatment.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months?

    I know only one instance, but the bombing did not last long. When “Azov” wonna-be Nazis were surrounded on the territory of Azovstal plant in Mariupol the RF started bombing that area, but stopped when it transpired that those “heroes” brought civilian hostages with them.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    Turns out it was mainly Mazel Tov than Nazi Stuff.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  237. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You think less than 30,000 Ukrainians have been killed, both military and civilian? It is possible, but I think it highly unlikely.
     
    Well whatever the true figure (which no-one knows), I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest. My point is that it’s fundamentally hypocritical to say all the things LatW has said about the “tragedy suffered by Ukraine”; then turn around and endorse Israel and its policies. The numbers may differ; but the underlying principle is the same.

    Literally every Arab state would be harsher and more exploitative of their superior strength and somehow less humane.
     
    Again; just another form of whataboutism.

    It doesn’t matter what “Arab states” would or would not have done if they were in Israel's position; because a) they are not in Israel's position, so you have no basis for your conjecture other than gut instinct (so scientific and reliable a technique!) b) what "Arab states" do has no bearing on the question of justice in Palestine. Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions (real or conjectural) of other Arab states.

    But you are hardly alone among Israeli advocates to deploy this tried-and-true technique of deflecting criticism away from Israel. These whataboutisms ("But, but… the what about the Turkish genocide of Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians!") are just so stupid and tiresome. Why the heck should Turkey or Saudi Arabia's actions give Israel the right to forcibly expel Palestinians from their territory? The one has no bearing on the other. It's just a duplicitous technique to deflect criticism and avoid responsibility.

    If you want to specifically say that "Palestinians would've been just as oppressive if they were in Israel's position"; the automatic and obvious response would be that Palestinians will and have never been in Israel's position; because they weren't the ones going to the shtetls in Europe to colonize and expel the European Jews there; but rather the European Jews were the ones to come to them.

    It was the Palestinians; tilling the soil and shepherding their sheep; innocently minding their business; when a group of Polish, Russian and German Jews descended upon them with the express intent of ethnically cleansing them off the land to make space for a majority Jewish state.

    Now, you could say that Jews needed a place to go after being exterminated in Europe. And that would be a reasonable position to hold. In fact that's the position I used to take just a few years ago; and about the only argument I'm willing to entertain for why Ashkenazi Jews have a right to stay in Palestine (Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews are a different topic; I'll leave that aside for now).

    I don't know if you'd believe me; but only 4 years ago you would've found me sympathetic to Israel; because while Ashkenazi Jews follow a different religion; I basically view them as culturally very similar to myself. In my behavior and interests I'm probably closer to a secular Ashkenazi Jew than I am to the average Palestinian Arab. I also used to admire the Jewish aptitude for business and scholarly interests; two activities I hold in high regard. I still do to an extent; but these considerations have taken a back seat once I started delving more into the history of the Zionist-Arab conflict.

    Simply put: Ashkenazi Jews have screwed over the Palestinians so thoroughly and deeply that I now regret having been sympathetic to Israel, or god forbid defended their actions in a moment of ignorance. The more I learnt about the topic; the more this feeling of revulsion at the injustice intensified; and just the shameless manner in which Zionist Jews propagandized the world that they were victims; when instead they were the colonizing aggressors; made me realize that I was wrong and Palestinians had it right not to trust the Jews all along.

    Probably if I was born in 1920s Palestine I would've been one of these naïve Arabs who said "let our Brother Abraham come in; they're smart and educated; and they need refuge from the carnage happening in Europe. We've been living with Sephardic Jews for millennia; no reason why the Ashkenazim would've been different". And boy would I have been naïve and wrong. The Palestinians to their credit had the Jews pegged straight all along; they just weren't capable enough to defend themselves against Zionist aggression.

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn’t complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine – what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @AP


    As for Palestine – what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

     

    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They're mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.

    I don’t think a Judeo-Christian state in the Middle East would have worked out or even have been desired by the Arab Christian or Jewish population. Contrary to A123; there is no natural affinity between Christians and Jews in the Middle East. In fact many Christians view Jews as their enemies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTeRiAeKJVs&t=92s&ab_channel=ComunidadPalestinadeChile

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots. The most prominent Christian intellectual Edward Said was a loyal Palestinian and a proud Arab. As I’ve mentioned before; Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate.

    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslims; and perceive Jews to be more Western-friendly. But it’s important not to project this notion onto the Israeli-Arab situation. Christian Arabs are on the Arab side when it comes to the conflict with Israel. Notwithstanding A123 propaganda; the Palestinian Muslims have treated the Christians better than Israeli Jews on average; and the shared language and culture keep Muslims and Christians Palestinians tied together.

    In 20th century Palestine the local Muslims and Christians formed associations all over the country to counter the rising Zionist tide. From Benny Morris' Righteous Victims:


    After the November 2, 1918, Balfour Day parade in Jewish Jerusalem, more than one hundred Muslim and Christian notables, headed by Musa Kazim al-Husseini, Jerusalem’s mayor, handed Storrs a petition that stated: “We have noticed yesterday a large crowd of Jews carrying banners and over-running the streets shouting words which hurt the feelings and wound the soul. They pretend with open voice that Palestine, which is the Holy Land of our fathers and the graveyard of our ancestors, which has been inhabited by the Arabs for long ages, who loved it and died in defending it, is now a national home for them.”117 A similar petition was submitted by the Jaffa Muslim-Christian Association. Extremist secret societies, pledged to violence, also began to form. In February 1919 an organization called “the Black Hand” was established in Jaffa. Its proclaimed aim was to “kill the snail” of Zionism “while it was [still] young.”118 New Muslim-Christian associations sprang up elsewhere in the country. Soon federated in a national framework, in January 1919 they held the “First Palestine National Congress,” which supported the incorporation of Palestine into Syria, which the participants expected would shortly emerge as a fully independent Arab state.

     

    ----------

    But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

     

    Palestinians are as different from the ancient Hebrews as Croats are from Illyrians. The labels and language changed; but the people are substantially the same. That Palestinians are now "Arabs" and Croats "Slavs" doesn't mean they no longer have a connection to their Hebraic or Illyrian ancestors. In fact Palestinians are likely more descended from the ancient Hebrews than Ashkenazi Jews are.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them.

     

    Good point; I agree with it substantially. In a just world the Ashkenazim would've been given land in Germany as repatriation.

    Another good alternative would've been sending them to America; where already a substantial Jewish community exists. I'd be willing to bet that many Israelis would accept relocation to America if offered to them.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel's existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you'd find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs. They are also being dragged down by the dominant Mizrahi redneck culture which discourages intellectual activities. Israel only counts 5 Nobel laureates in the sciences over the past 70 years. If these Ashkenazi Jews were in New York City or the Bay Area; you could count on them having at least 2-4x more; going off American Jewish laureate numbers.

    The Ashkenazim are at their most fruitful in the West; where they benefit from unrivaled institutions and academic institutes. The world would have thus benefited if Israel had not existed; and European Jews sent to America instead.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @AP

    , @Wokechoke
    @AP

    yeah Jews belong with a separate state in the Baltic..Dasreich...Ohtay.

    Replies: @AP

    , @A123
    @AP

    Yahya's propaganda is a clear illustration of:

    =============================================
        The MUSLIM cries out in pain as he strikes you!
    =============================================

    Despite Yahya's feeble attempts to mischaracterized the situation, the truth is clear. West Bank Christians are horribly abused by Muslims. (1)


    Bethlehem: Christianity Dying Where it Began

    After noting that there “has been a marked uptick in religiously motivated attacks by Palestinian Muslims on Christians in Bethlehem,” a Nov. 21, 2022 report offers some examples:

     

    Just over two weeks ago, a Muslim man was accused of harassing young Christian women at a Forefathers Orthodox Church in Beit Sahour near the city of Bethlehem. Soon after, the church was attacked by a large mob of Palestinian men who hurled rocks at the building while congregants cowered inside. Several of the congregants were injured in the attack.

    The Palestinian Authority, responsible for security in the area, did nothing.

    In October, unidentified gunmen shot at the Christian-owned Bethlehem Hotel after a video on social media associated the hotel with a display that included cardboard cutouts of a Star of David and a Menorah. …

    No arrests were made in connection with the shooting.

    Perhaps the greatest shock to the community came in April when the Palestinian evangelical pastor, Johnny Shahwan, was arrested by the Palestinian Authority security forces on charges of ‘promoting normalization’ with Israel. …

    In January, a large group of masked men carrying sticks and iron bars attacked Christian brothers, Daoud and Daher Nassar, on their farm near Bethlehem. The Palestinian courts have been working to confiscate the farm that has been owned by the family since the Ottoman Empire.
     

    Despite the fiction pushed by colonial Islam, the #1 oppressor of Christians are Muslims.
    __

    Notwithstanding Yahya's desperate propaganda, there is every reason to believe that Christians Zones within Jewish Palestine would have been highly successful. Practitioners of Judaism have little interest in the New Testament sites that are key to Christian tradition.

    Christian areas would have a work ethic to yield jobs & income for residents plus taxes to pay for services. Compare that to the Gaza deadbeat problem, where unemployment is ~50%.

    Christian Zone special declarations would mostly be obvious (e.g. Sunday rules, exemption from Saturday rules, availability of pork products). This would tend to discourage demographic shifts changing the character of Christian majority towns.

    To the extent additional protections would be needed, they would mostly be driven by secular pressures. For example, Bethlehem's favourable location could create a housing affordability problem if a deft hand was not present.

    If one can ignore the torrent of low credibility propaganda by Yahya and his agitator compatriots, there are significant opportunities for progress.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.raymondibrahim.com/2022/12/25/bethlehem-christianity-dying-where-it-began/

    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    You have the rational atheist's attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the "Holy Land". They have motivation there because it is the "Promised Land" given to Abraham, or "Land of Milk and Honey" carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    Islam's relation to the conflict, is also just religion. Quantitatively the Israel-Palestinian conflict is small (less people die in the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 75 years, than in Ukraine every 3 months), but qualitatively the conflict is very large. They believe Muhammad climbed to heaven there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra%27_and_Mi%27raj).

    There are also ruins of Crusader castles everywhere, because of centuries of wars of Christian alliances (when those were also a cult) to conquer the "Holy Land".

    It feels like the area has a weird, religious atmosphere coming. You can't escape a tense atmosphere. You can almost be expecting scientists will discover unknown magnetic force in the Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps the Mormon UFO buried under the Pyramids.


    Jews East Prussia,

     

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Part of the society, are people who are more religious than Mormons and the religious sites are essential in their religion. Those religious nationalist people would not live in Prussia.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZBLruSVXo

    @Yayha


    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslim

     

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple. The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2013&version=NIV

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

    There is internal logic if they assume Israel will rebuild the temple, but the assumptions are not rational - it's because of what someone wrote in the book a couple thousand years ago.

    Replies: @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

  238. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    I think I should have been more precise and write from the outset that I was referring to the right wing accelerationists, not their left wing counterparts. Because you are right (pun intended) there are the two subtypes of accelerationism : the neomarxist and the NRx (for lack of a better description).

    What I wanted to emphasize was that while writing to Greasy, you pointed out that a true right winger would fight for preservation of something (Nazis for the preservation of "the Arian race", right wing Zionists for the preservation of "the Jewish people" etc.) However, despite being described as far right, a Boogaloo Boy would not care for preservation of anything because he would see everything as ultimately corrupt. Peak Kali Yuga frens (sic) as would say some (mostly young) Alt Right dissidents on teh internets (sic).

    When Greasy writes that "there is nothing worth preserving in America" he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types. This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of "good old" American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him). Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society. And I know that they're not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum. Even the kids who are not political at all are often only interested in hedonism and consumerism which is also existentially extreme when it comes to a certain point. There does seem not much idealism left.

    The "old ways" of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the "cultural Marxist" are to the Left what the "Alt Right" are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one's ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LatW

    the NRx

    The NRx is interesting purely to explore (safely from a distance) and maybe get some occassional exciting sensations. But it’s not something that a large enough pool of people would adopt to have impact. But the very idea of the Dark Enlightenment is to have impact with small, but radical actions. This is something to be pondered but it’s not a thing to be discussed online (or openly).

    [MORE]

    Alt Right dissidents

    If the Alt Right dissidents want to just be contrarians or be in a permanent state of struggle without building anything, that’s their choice (I will agree that some of them want to build something but are not allowed to, however, many don’t, they just want to be antagonistic and adversarial). Back a few years ago there was a very attractive group, the Rise Above group in CA. It would appear outwardly that they had no positive program and just wanted to cause altercations, but they actually did – they created a certain very healthy aesthetic and had some discipline (athletic culture). But of course, they were stifled at the very root. Because their approach was combative (it was understandable, but such won’t be allowed). But it was an attractive group that, had they worked quietly, maybe would have built something.

    When Greasy writes that “there is nothing worth preserving in America” he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types.

    Not entirely. Many of the Alt Right types wanted something more conservative, just couldn’t get it. I don’t know this for sure, but I think someone like this Nick Fuentes guy is quite genuine in describing the kind of society he would want to live in. If he had the kind of society that he yearns for, he probably wouldn’t call women “femoids”, he would behave conservatively and have a normal life. But maybe I’m wrong (and he’s another contrarian on principle).

    The issue I found with Greasy is that he doesn’t appear to be too invested in anything. There are great things in America worth preserving (and you will even find people who will do it), but he doesn’t seem to see those things or he may not be bothered to live that way. Would Greasy be happy if the woke were gone one day? I think he would find something else to complain about. But again, I may be wrong. Some people are contrarians for the purpose of being that way, eternal oppositioners. I must admit, I like this quality, but the saner part of me always asks for something more positive, creative. By positive I do not mean something “nice”, but something that is pro-actively built up with a clear vision behind it.

    Plus, I don’t know how these approaches can co-exist in a right wing environment, when on the one hand you have more conservative types who are invested in society (I know, the so called “cuckservatives”), but also these other more destructive types.

    So in generel, accelerationism is worth while the attention. But for me someone more mellow such as Guillaume Faye would probably be more appealing. So accelerationism might be ok if the West were to become completely unsalvageable, or it might be ok in Russia (that system, too, of old KGBshniks is rotten to the core).

    But I would not support accelerationism within the territory of the Intermarium (including Ukraine) and not in Scandinavia (Scandinavia just needs stricter immigration laws).

    This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of “good old” American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.

    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism. Also, some of these Right wing types in fact justify their actions with the “fight for the old values”. Maybe they just use them as a pretext. I have thought about this quite a bit in fact, but it is not to be discussed openly.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him).

    Yes, there are some interesting things with Gen Z. But they are probably too young still, at that age some kids are into such ideas. What I have noticed anecdotally though in the US and Canada, is that the Gen Z girls tend to veer even more left than let’s say Millennial women, and the boys are either secular leftists or far right. How are they going to live together in the future? I think this should be avoided in the Intermarium.

    But, yes, boys are more receptive to right wing ideas, military stuff, etc. Which I agree, feels great to see. It’s amazing how early the boys catch on to these things. But it’s important to direct them to be kind. So that everything is in balance.

    Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society.

    It might be that it is hard for many kids to accept the more confusing and negative sides of today’s society, some kids opt out. I’ve seen some teenagers take that route.

    And I know that they’re not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum.

    Right, but keep in mind that some of them will change and stabilize as they grow up.

    There does seem not much idealism left.

    Maybe… but in most societies, only a certain fraction of people are true idealists. But it is true that the society in the West is quite atomized, polarized. But there are new ideals such as “green living”.

    The “old ways” of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the “cultural Marxist” are to the Left what the “Alt Right” are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?

    If they keep growing and no longer remain on the margins, then maybe.

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.

    This is what normal right wing ideology is based on. The love of one’s own. And it can even be love of humanity, because a great far right leader will support those, of any nationality, who just want to live according to their roots and culture, in their own God given home.

    And, of course, a positive program is always needed. Even someone such as Codreanu, in his group, there were, what one could consider, people using accelerationist methods (in those days). But he always had a positive component as well. The core values were there.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @LatW

    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Always good reading you LatW. Agree with most of what you wrote including that there are things that beyond the pale of internet discussions.


    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism.
     
    Before one could rebuild, one must destroy. Perhaps we are just entering the stage of an inevitable societal decay. We'll see in the coming decades.

    Replies: @LatW

  239. @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    Yahya, lay off of me, please. I already explained myself to you once. I like the form, not the content, I like the persistence and the eternal vigilance part and I wish it had been adopted in the EE countries. That’s all there is to it. Of course, the terrible situation there is very unfortunate. Please, do not pretend you misunderstand what I said. There are many Ukrainian Israelis now sharing their wisdom with the folks back home, about how they set up their military, it is very interesting.

    And please.. half of the planet is on your side, most definitely in Western Europe, in many cases, especially the leftists are on your side. So give me a break. I do not wish ill upon anybody.

    Btw, there are things I find appealing in Islam, too, so it’s not one sided.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @LatW

    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks. You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.

    There are certainly many positive aspects about Israel that can be deemed praiseworthy.

    Just as there are of Russia. But personally I wouldn't blanket-praise Russia at times when it is behaving badly; as it is today. Not a good idea to give ammunition to the barbarians. I think the same should be true for Israel.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

  240. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    I see what you've written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don't think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.

    So, while I doubt this is how you will perceive the exchange, I won't be dishonest with you and portray my opinion of what you've written in any other way.

    I'll also add that I don't care for historical "he said, she saids." I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible. War includes Israeli military occupation and it includes Palestinian terrorism. I doubt we'll agree on a likely route to realistically ending those two either, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya


    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy.

    The problem with the underlying situation is summed up by this succinct phrase:

    ================================================
        The MUSLIM cries out in pain as he strikes you!
    ================================================

    It is denial about Islam’s role as the *source* of the problem. Intentionally targeting Jewish children for terrorist Jihadi violence crossed a line, and that irrevocable decision cannot be unmade.

    The original idea of Zionism was a “Nation for Jews”. Decades of senseless violence by Muslims created a very different concept. The need for collective defense forged inexorable pressure yielding a “Jewish Nation”. The door for amicable, neighborly coexistence is permanently closed and nailed shut by Islamic terror.

    I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible.

    With the requirement of “soon” the key element of any plan has to be separation. The sides cannot fight if they cannot get at each other.

    Muslims need an honourable and financially viable way to move away from the conflict zone. New Muslim Palestine needs to be run by a reliable party, such as an appointed Egyptian or Jordanian Governor, that can suppress groups that spawned the violence and terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank.

    New Muslim Palestine would not have to exist under minimum necessary security required to protect Jewish children. Muslim youth would be able hope for a future other than dying in a perpetually losing fight.

    Yes. That is much easier to say than execute. However, it is the only option that directly & immediately offers relief.

    PEACE 😇

  241. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, there seems to be tremendous cognitive dissonance going on on this site.

    I know that Freud refused to read Nietzsche because he thought so much of his thought foreshadowed his own insights and he wanted to keep his line of inspiration pure, and I know that Nietzsche was a huge admirer of Schopenhauer and greatly inspired by him, although ultimately rejecting his world-pessimism.

    There are also significant and irreconcilable differences between the three, not to be glossed over, but they do form a sort of line of continuous intellectual development.

    I find in general that the Unz White Nationalists are tremendously ignorant of European intellectual and cultural history, in particular the intellectual history of European nihilism and "decadence", which was such a central feature of European thought and art beginning perhaps shortly after the advent of the Industrial Revolution, and in response to it.

    Kevin McDonald, for instance, has constructed a history of Europe from which all major cultural and intellectual critique of emerging trends embodied in the Industrial Revolution, the new materialism, the new conception of life and the universe as soulless mechanism - I was going to say are excluded from consideration, but it's more like they simply never existed in his alternate universe.

    It's as if Blake, Wordsworth, Keats, with their fierce critique of the Industrial Revolution and the new mechanistic view of life, simply didn't exist, as if Byron and Shelley with their disgust at the political oppression of their times and their celebration of exotic climes, never wrote, as if Baudelaire never expressed his disgust with France and European civilization in his Fleur's du Mal and Spleen de Paris, as if Flaubert never pilloried the dull philistinism of the new bourgeois culture arising in his Madame Bovary, as of Holderin, Novalis, the Schlegel's, never put pen to paper critiquing the loss of dimension and imagination emerging in Europe as a result of the new culture of mechanization, as if the Existentialists never wrote about the nihilistic "absurdity" of life in a world without God or meaning, as if Dostoevsky never decried the nihilism, materialism, and rationalism emerging in his time (and all this is just the tip of the iceberg).

    He has constructed an alternative universe in which European culture was monolithic and without significant inner conflict or tension - in other words, without "soul" - until Jews came along and attacked this, er, splendid(ly boring) edifice. It's not even that this is wrong - it's boring. He has expunged all the glory and greatness, all the soul, from European cultural life and replaced it with a tale "told by an idiot, signifying nothing" - a modern tale, in which the primary metaphors are caricatures of biology and the tedium of a supposed Darwinism struggle.

    Who would prefer this to the glorious historical development from faith to nihilism, a tragedy in several acts and of world-historical importance?

    Well, I've gone off ranting again, so I shall leave off here lol :)

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Simple people looking for a scapegoat love a straightforward moral dichotomy. I haven’t really paid attention to McDonald but I suppose that his moral fable of Western Civilization and the Jews is quite useful for his purposes.

    It makes everyone feel special to have an outlet to externalize their frustrations!

    • Agree: HeavilyMarbledSteak
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Barbarossa

    Kevin McDonald was writing from the point of view of biological psychology, which he saw as a result of different human populations' adaptation to different environments. Basically a psychological take on HBD.

    The ton of letters that Aaron has unloaded on the poor man has nearly nothing to do with his academic work. But hey, that's the way most Jews react to what they see as criticism of their mindset.

    As I wrote previously, Aaron is simply unable to leave his inner Qahal rest despite his humanistic, transcendental, mystical grandstanding. A guy can talk hours about Zen and Dao and then suddenly exhibit an extreme bias when his ethnic identity is presented in an unflattering manner.

    Happens to the best of us...

    🙂



    That being said, The Culture of Critique by K. McDonald is the American equivalent of Russophobia by Igor Shafarevich. Except that Russophobia was written a decade before Culture of Critique. Another notable difference is that Shafarevich was writing post factum after the destruction of the "classic Russian society" by the (Judeo)Bolshevik Revolution, while McDonald was writing during the process of disintegration of the "classic American society" by the critical theory (hence the title).

    He was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite.

    After the publication of his books, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth form the usual corners...

    A good and useful read.

    🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @S

  242. @AP
    @Yahya

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn't complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine - what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Wokechoke, @A123, @Dmitry

    As for Palestine – what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.

    I don’t think a Judeo-Christian state in the Middle East would have worked out or even have been desired by the Arab Christian or Jewish population. Contrary to A123; there is no natural affinity between Christians and Jews in the Middle East. In fact many Christians view Jews as their enemies.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots. The most prominent Christian intellectual Edward Said was a loyal Palestinian and a proud Arab. As I’ve mentioned before; Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate.

    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslims; and perceive Jews to be more Western-friendly. But it’s important not to project this notion onto the Israeli-Arab situation. Christian Arabs are on the Arab side when it comes to the conflict with Israel. Notwithstanding A123 propaganda; the Palestinian Muslims have treated the Christians better than Israeli Jews on average; and the shared language and culture keep Muslims and Christians Palestinians tied together.

    In 20th century Palestine the local Muslims and Christians formed associations all over the country to counter the rising Zionist tide. From Benny Morris’ Righteous Victims:

    After the November 2, 1918, Balfour Day parade in Jewish Jerusalem, more than one hundred Muslim and Christian notables, headed by Musa Kazim al-Husseini, Jerusalem’s mayor, handed Storrs a petition that stated: “We have noticed yesterday a large crowd of Jews carrying banners and over-running the streets shouting words which hurt the feelings and wound the soul. They pretend with open voice that Palestine, which is the Holy Land of our fathers and the graveyard of our ancestors, which has been inhabited by the Arabs for long ages, who loved it and died in defending it, is now a national home for them.”117 A similar petition was submitted by the Jaffa Muslim-Christian Association. Extremist secret societies, pledged to violence, also began to form. In February 1919 an organization called “the Black Hand” was established in Jaffa. Its proclaimed aim was to “kill the snail” of Zionism “while it was [still] young.”118 New Muslim-Christian associations sprang up elsewhere in the country. Soon federated in a national framework, in January 1919 they held the “First Palestine National Congress,” which supported the incorporation of Palestine into Syria, which the participants expected would shortly emerge as a fully independent Arab state.

    ———-

    But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    Palestinians are as different from the ancient Hebrews as Croats are from Illyrians. The labels and language changed; but the people are substantially the same. That Palestinians are now “Arabs” and Croats “Slavs” doesn’t mean they no longer have a connection to their Hebraic or Illyrian ancestors. In fact Palestinians are likely more descended from the ancient Hebrews than Ashkenazi Jews are.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them.

    Good point; I agree with it substantially. In a just world the Ashkenazim would’ve been given land in Germany as repatriation.

    Another good alternative would’ve been sending them to America; where already a substantial Jewish community exists. I’d be willing to bet that many Israelis would accept relocation to America if offered to them.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs. They are also being dragged down by the dominant Mizrahi redneck culture which discourages intellectual activities. Israel only counts 5 Nobel laureates in the sciences over the past 70 years. If these Ashkenazi Jews were in New York City or the Bay Area; you could count on them having at least 2-4x more; going off American Jewish laureate numbers.

    The Ashkenazim are at their most fruitful in the West; where they benefit from unrivaled institutions and academic institutes. The world would have thus benefited if Israel had not existed; and European Jews sent to America instead.

    • Thanks: AP
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Yahya

    I'd fuck Rita. Do you think she like marginally employed, middle aged, out of shape, misanthropic Jewish guys who have no sympathy whatsoever for her people?

    , @AP
    @Yahya


    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.
     
    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots
     
    I’ve known a few Chaldeans but only one Palestinian Christian. He was mildly anti-Muslim but far more anti-Israeli, for the simple reason that the Israelis stole his family’s house and moved into it. They still have the paper deed to the house but left during fighting, and were then barred from returning. His family were well educated and moved to North America where they were successful (more so then in the old country). But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft? Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate
     
    The pan-Arab movement was also a generally secular one so it makes sense for Arab Christians to promote an ideology that places religion in the background and emphasizes Arab ethnicity and solidarity. Secular Baathism was rather good for Christians.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs
     
    This is an excellent point, but would have been solved by a homeland in East Prussia, which would be part of the West. I think the main reason for a Jewish State would be for this nation to have their own political homeland as other nations do.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @Yahya

  243. @LatW
    @Yahya

    Yahya, lay off of me, please. I already explained myself to you once. I like the form, not the content, I like the persistence and the eternal vigilance part and I wish it had been adopted in the EE countries. That's all there is to it. Of course, the terrible situation there is very unfortunate. Please, do not pretend you misunderstand what I said. There are many Ukrainian Israelis now sharing their wisdom with the folks back home, about how they set up their military, it is very interesting.

    And please.. half of the planet is on your side, most definitely in Western Europe, in many cases, especially the leftists are on your side. So give me a break. I do not wish ill upon anybody.

    Btw, there are things I find appealing in Islam, too, so it's not one sided.

    Replies: @Yahya

    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks. You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.

    There are certainly many positive aspects about Israel that can be deemed praiseworthy.

    Just as there are of Russia. But personally I wouldn’t blanket-praise Russia at times when it is behaving badly; as it is today. Not a good idea to give ammunition to the barbarians. I think the same should be true for Israel.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @LatW
    @Yahya


    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks.
     
    I apologize as well if I upset you, I understand how it would make you feel (trust me). My comments were made in haste (due to time limitation as I have obligations out there in real life) and I am not always able to formulate accurately and in great detail what I perceive.

    I'm aware from your posts that you are a very intelligent young gentleman, very smart and articulate for your age. This is a kind of "anything goes" type of forum and I think we all must grow a slightly thicker skin here (even if we are all sensitive people, of course). I know, easier said than done (in the case of myself above all). :)

    You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.
     

    I'm not a racist (as in supremacist), but I am a racialist. Basically, people can be different because they are made that way, nobody is better or worse, but their qualities are often determined by their geographical space, and everyone has their own living space that should be respected. I'm aware that even this milder version is too "biological" for many to swallow, well, so be it. I do allow some minor exceptions (only a few small ones), and in real life I am mostly very kind to non-Whites. Although I do try to avoid certain non-Whites in Western Europe (I've been followed around a lot, and prefer to be with a companion). I just want to put it out there and be clear, so that next time I write something, you are able to better understand my position and don't have negative emotions.

    Btw, I had heard of Norman Finkelstein, he is a controversial dude who is quite well known in the right wing circles (because of his criticism of the Jews, obviously). But I haven't read his books. I felt a slight bias there because he seemed like a Jew who is resentful towards his own people and is trying to be spiteful. I wouldn't say "self-hating" but just one of those types who enjoys pissing off his own group. But maybe I'm wrong, I'm sure he's scrupulous enough to present plenty of facts.

  244. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    If you excise those than what do you have left, Coca Cola and Levi’s?
     
    Something like that

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    But what is the point of that? I guess just personal gratification, but that is nothing to build a civilization or society on. We have that now and it seems to suck.

    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?

    To me these seem like fundamental problems and symptoms of a dysfunctional society. How do you see the libertarian/ self interested consumer model as yielding a functional society?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?
     
    Hyper atomization is a problem but I see that just largely as a function of prosperity, technology and cultural diversity. The former two you can't do anything about I don't believe the 3rd would have happened if not for fiat money. Get rid of fiat money, and cultural diversity will take care of itself once new immigration is shut down and the current non white population groups in the West assimilate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  245. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    the NRx
     
    The NRx is interesting purely to explore (safely from a distance) and maybe get some occassional exciting sensations. But it's not something that a large enough pool of people would adopt to have impact. But the very idea of the Dark Enlightenment is to have impact with small, but radical actions. This is something to be pondered but it's not a thing to be discussed online (or openly).

    Alt Right dissidents
     
    If the Alt Right dissidents want to just be contrarians or be in a permanent state of struggle without building anything, that's their choice (I will agree that some of them want to build something but are not allowed to, however, many don't, they just want to be antagonistic and adversarial). Back a few years ago there was a very attractive group, the Rise Above group in CA. It would appear outwardly that they had no positive program and just wanted to cause altercations, but they actually did - they created a certain very healthy aesthetic and had some discipline (athletic culture). But of course, they were stifled at the very root. Because their approach was combative (it was understandable, but such won't be allowed). But it was an attractive group that, had they worked quietly, maybe would have built something.

    When Greasy writes that “there is nothing worth preserving in America” he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types.
     
    Not entirely. Many of the Alt Right types wanted something more conservative, just couldn't get it. I don't know this for sure, but I think someone like this Nick Fuentes guy is quite genuine in describing the kind of society he would want to live in. If he had the kind of society that he yearns for, he probably wouldn't call women "femoids", he would behave conservatively and have a normal life. But maybe I'm wrong (and he's another contrarian on principle).

    The issue I found with Greasy is that he doesn't appear to be too invested in anything. There are great things in America worth preserving (and you will even find people who will do it), but he doesn't seem to see those things or he may not be bothered to live that way. Would Greasy be happy if the woke were gone one day? I think he would find something else to complain about. But again, I may be wrong. Some people are contrarians for the purpose of being that way, eternal oppositioners. I must admit, I like this quality, but the saner part of me always asks for something more positive, creative. By positive I do not mean something "nice", but something that is pro-actively built up with a clear vision behind it.

    Plus, I don't know how these approaches can co-exist in a right wing environment, when on the one hand you have more conservative types who are invested in society (I know, the so called "cuckservatives"), but also these other more destructive types.

    So in generel, accelerationism is worth while the attention. But for me someone more mellow such as Guillaume Faye would probably be more appealing. So accelerationism might be ok if the West were to become completely unsalvageable, or it might be ok in Russia (that system, too, of old KGBshniks is rotten to the core).

    But I would not support accelerationism within the territory of the Intermarium (including Ukraine) and not in Scandinavia (Scandinavia just needs stricter immigration laws).


    This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of “good old” American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.
     
    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism. Also, some of these Right wing types in fact justify their actions with the "fight for the old values". Maybe they just use them as a pretext. I have thought about this quite a bit in fact, but it is not to be discussed openly.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him).
     
    Yes, there are some interesting things with Gen Z. But they are probably too young still, at that age some kids are into such ideas. What I have noticed anecdotally though in the US and Canada, is that the Gen Z girls tend to veer even more left than let's say Millennial women, and the boys are either secular leftists or far right. How are they going to live together in the future? I think this should be avoided in the Intermarium.

    But, yes, boys are more receptive to right wing ideas, military stuff, etc. Which I agree, feels great to see. It's amazing how early the boys catch on to these things. But it's important to direct them to be kind. So that everything is in balance.


    Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society.
     
    It might be that it is hard for many kids to accept the more confusing and negative sides of today's society, some kids opt out. I've seen some teenagers take that route.

    And I know that they’re not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum.
     
    Right, but keep in mind that some of them will change and stabilize as they grow up.

    There does seem not much idealism left.
     
    Maybe... but in most societies, only a certain fraction of people are true idealists. But it is true that the society in the West is quite atomized, polarized. But there are new ideals such as "green living".

    The “old ways” of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the “cultural Marxist” are to the Left what the “Alt Right” are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?
     

    If they keep growing and no longer remain on the margins, then maybe.

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    This is what normal right wing ideology is based on. The love of one's own. And it can even be love of humanity, because a great far right leader will support those, of any nationality, who just want to live according to their roots and culture, in their own God given home.

    And, of course, a positive program is always needed. Even someone such as Codreanu, in his group, there were, what one could consider, people using accelerationist methods (in those days). But he always had a positive component as well. The core values were there.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Ivashka the fool

    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?

    • Thanks: A123
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    Neoreaction.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    Popularized by fans of Curtis Yarvin 10+ years ago at the onset of the Anthropocene Epoch. It is jargon used by people who spend too much time attached to their computer and ought to go out in the woods for a long walk.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?
     
    Thanks. I concede predictability, but when NRX was mentoned...

     
    https://cdn.blackbookmotorsport.com/images/made/images/remote/https_legacy.sportspromedia.com/images/uploads/news/NRX_FC1X_630_354_80_s_c1.jpg
     

    Nitro Rallycross series....

    PEACE 😇

  246. @AP
    @Yahya

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn't complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine - what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Wokechoke, @A123, @Dmitry

    yeah Jews belong with a separate state in the Baltic..Dasreich…Ohtay.

    • LOL: LatW
    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Are Sovoks filling Kant’s homeland with crappy Sovok apartments better?

  247. @AnonfromTN
    @QCIC


    Can someone point out any heavy bombing strikes on Ukrainian targets in the last six months?
     
    I know only one instance, but the bombing did not last long. When “Azov” wonna-be Nazis were surrounded on the territory of Azovstal plant in Mariupol the RF started bombing that area, but stopped when it transpired that those “heroes” brought civilian hostages with them.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Turns out it was mainly Mazel Tov than Nazi Stuff.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    Turns out it was mainly Mazel Tov than Nazi Stuff.
     
    They put swastikas and the portrait of parteigenosse everywhere, including their tattoos (that’s how DPR fighters recognized them to separate from civilians). They burn books in public spaces, just like the German Nazis did. Then again, there are theories that the original worshippers of swastikas and parteigenosse were also Mazel Tov creation. I don’t know. The only thing I know is that they are repulsive.

    Mind you, I am not saying that Ukies are real Nazis. Nazis would sue me for libel if I did. Ukies don’t measure up by a long chalk. As Marx said, "History repeats itself first as tragedy then as farce". However, Ukie farce is pretty bloody.
  248. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    I see what you've written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don't think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.

    So, while I doubt this is how you will perceive the exchange, I won't be dishonest with you and portray my opinion of what you've written in any other way.

    I'll also add that I don't care for historical "he said, she saids." I prefer that people just be able to live in peace as soon as possible. War includes Israeli military occupation and it includes Palestinian terrorism. I doubt we'll agree on a likely route to realistically ending those two either, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

    Replies: @A123, @Yahya

    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don’t think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.

    Lol, it’s you who hasn’t addressed any of my points in a substantive manner; just engaging in your usual psychoanalyses and ad hominem arguments.

    I agree the Palestinian side needs to cease the terrorism; and Israel its occupation.

    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.

    Language can mean all the difference between peace and conflict.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya


    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.
     
    Lol. You're so predictable. Exactly as I described you previously.

    Anyway, why would the Israelis do what you suggest? They could remove all Palestinians from all areas they currently control if they wanted to. Sure, the international reaction would be outrage and they would be totally isolated*, but they could wait it out for a decade or so.

    *Actually probably the Chinese, Russians and various others wouldn't care.

    Instead, it is the Palestinians who I would imagine would be more motivated to do something like this as they hold no cards and exist solely because of the humanitarian instincts of the Israelis, not that those instincts are strong.

    Ultimately, the fact that the Palestinians haven't accepted that they are totally defeated yet likely won't change any time soon, nor will the fact that the Israelis are unwilling to be the monsters they would require to be to end the conflict tomorrow from their side. This means it will simmer on, until one side does what is in its power to resolve things. And really the Palestinians only have surrender and the Israelis only have monstrous victory.

    Maybe there is also a potential peace agreement, but I don't really see it.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  249. @Barbarossa
    @LatW

    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    Neoreaction.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    Popularized by fans of Curtis Yarvin 10+ years ago at the onset of the Anthropocene Epoch. It is jargon used by people who spend too much time attached to their computer and ought to go out in the woods for a long walk.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The origin of Dark Enlightment are perhaps with the obscure British philosopher, Nick Land, who later emigrated to Shanghai, as he was earlier a proponent of something called "accelerationism" (and Shanghai was definitely "accelerating" in his eyes), a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90'ties in the form of faith in technology, a process which was to lead to some kind of singularity both in technological and in social terms. I heard from another interesting philosopher/sociologist, Steve Fuller, who personally known him at the University of Warwick, that Nick Land was indeed a compelling man.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Culture_Research_Unit

    Some of his writings are still online:

    https://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/#comment-166601

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  250. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I see what you’ve written as a maudlin and victim-centered fantasy. It does not appeal to me. I also disagree with your points, your narrative and don’t think you addressed my previous comment in anything approaching a substantive manner.
     
    Lol, it's you who hasn't addressed any of my points in a substantive manner; just engaging in your usual psychoanalyses and ad hominem arguments.

    I agree the Palestinian side needs to cease the terrorism; and Israel its occupation.

    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2pOnAyF4ts&ab_channel=NetaElkayam

    Language can mean all the difference between peace and conflict.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.

    Lol. You’re so predictable. Exactly as I described you previously.

    Anyway, why would the Israelis do what you suggest? They could remove all Palestinians from all areas they currently control if they wanted to. Sure, the international reaction would be outrage and they would be totally isolated*, but they could wait it out for a decade or so.

    *Actually probably the Chinese, Russians and various others wouldn’t care.

    Instead, it is the Palestinians who I would imagine would be more motivated to do something like this as they hold no cards and exist solely because of the humanitarian instincts of the Israelis, not that those instincts are strong.

    Ultimately, the fact that the Palestinians haven’t accepted that they are totally defeated yet likely won’t change any time soon, nor will the fact that the Israelis are unwilling to be the monsters they would require to be to end the conflict tomorrow from their side. This means it will simmer on, until one side does what is in its power to resolve things. And really the Palestinians only have surrender and the Israelis only have monstrous victory.

    Maybe there is also a potential peace agreement, but I don’t really see it.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think they'll get the Jews eventually.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  251. @Yahya
    @AP


    As for Palestine – what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

     

    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They're mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.

    I don’t think a Judeo-Christian state in the Middle East would have worked out or even have been desired by the Arab Christian or Jewish population. Contrary to A123; there is no natural affinity between Christians and Jews in the Middle East. In fact many Christians view Jews as their enemies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTeRiAeKJVs&t=92s&ab_channel=ComunidadPalestinadeChile

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots. The most prominent Christian intellectual Edward Said was a loyal Palestinian and a proud Arab. As I’ve mentioned before; Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate.

    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslims; and perceive Jews to be more Western-friendly. But it’s important not to project this notion onto the Israeli-Arab situation. Christian Arabs are on the Arab side when it comes to the conflict with Israel. Notwithstanding A123 propaganda; the Palestinian Muslims have treated the Christians better than Israeli Jews on average; and the shared language and culture keep Muslims and Christians Palestinians tied together.

    In 20th century Palestine the local Muslims and Christians formed associations all over the country to counter the rising Zionist tide. From Benny Morris' Righteous Victims:


    After the November 2, 1918, Balfour Day parade in Jewish Jerusalem, more than one hundred Muslim and Christian notables, headed by Musa Kazim al-Husseini, Jerusalem’s mayor, handed Storrs a petition that stated: “We have noticed yesterday a large crowd of Jews carrying banners and over-running the streets shouting words which hurt the feelings and wound the soul. They pretend with open voice that Palestine, which is the Holy Land of our fathers and the graveyard of our ancestors, which has been inhabited by the Arabs for long ages, who loved it and died in defending it, is now a national home for them.”117 A similar petition was submitted by the Jaffa Muslim-Christian Association. Extremist secret societies, pledged to violence, also began to form. In February 1919 an organization called “the Black Hand” was established in Jaffa. Its proclaimed aim was to “kill the snail” of Zionism “while it was [still] young.”118 New Muslim-Christian associations sprang up elsewhere in the country. Soon federated in a national framework, in January 1919 they held the “First Palestine National Congress,” which supported the incorporation of Palestine into Syria, which the participants expected would shortly emerge as a fully independent Arab state.

     

    ----------

    But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

     

    Palestinians are as different from the ancient Hebrews as Croats are from Illyrians. The labels and language changed; but the people are substantially the same. That Palestinians are now "Arabs" and Croats "Slavs" doesn't mean they no longer have a connection to their Hebraic or Illyrian ancestors. In fact Palestinians are likely more descended from the ancient Hebrews than Ashkenazi Jews are.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them.

     

    Good point; I agree with it substantially. In a just world the Ashkenazim would've been given land in Germany as repatriation.

    Another good alternative would've been sending them to America; where already a substantial Jewish community exists. I'd be willing to bet that many Israelis would accept relocation to America if offered to them.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel's existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you'd find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs. They are also being dragged down by the dominant Mizrahi redneck culture which discourages intellectual activities. Israel only counts 5 Nobel laureates in the sciences over the past 70 years. If these Ashkenazi Jews were in New York City or the Bay Area; you could count on them having at least 2-4x more; going off American Jewish laureate numbers.

    The Ashkenazim are at their most fruitful in the West; where they benefit from unrivaled institutions and academic institutes. The world would have thus benefited if Israel had not existed; and European Jews sent to America instead.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @AP

    I’d fuck Rita. Do you think she like marginally employed, middle aged, out of shape, misanthropic Jewish guys who have no sympathy whatsoever for her people?

    • LOL: Yahya
  252. @AP
    @Yahya

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn't complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine - what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Wokechoke, @A123, @Dmitry

    Yahya’s propaganda is a clear illustration of:

    =============================================
        The MUSLIM cries out in pain as he strikes you!
    =============================================

    Despite Yahya’s feeble attempts to mischaracterized the situation, the truth is clear. West Bank Christians are horribly abused by Muslims. (1)

    Bethlehem: Christianity Dying Where it Began

    After noting that there “has been a marked uptick in religiously motivated attacks by Palestinian Muslims on Christians in Bethlehem,” a Nov. 21, 2022 report offers some examples:

    Just over two weeks ago, a Muslim man was accused of harassing young Christian women at a Forefathers Orthodox Church in Beit Sahour near the city of Bethlehem. Soon after, the church was attacked by a large mob of Palestinian men who hurled rocks at the building while congregants cowered inside. Several of the congregants were injured in the attack.

    The Palestinian Authority, responsible for security in the area, did nothing.

    In October, unidentified gunmen shot at the Christian-owned Bethlehem Hotel after a video on social media associated the hotel with a display that included cardboard cutouts of a Star of David and a Menorah. …

    No arrests were made in connection with the shooting.

    Perhaps the greatest shock to the community came in April when the Palestinian evangelical pastor, Johnny Shahwan, was arrested by the Palestinian Authority security forces on charges of ‘promoting normalization’ with Israel. …

    In January, a large group of masked men carrying sticks and iron bars attacked Christian brothers, Daoud and Daher Nassar, on their farm near Bethlehem. The Palestinian courts have been working to confiscate the farm that has been owned by the family since the Ottoman Empire.

    Despite the fiction pushed by colonial Islam, the #1 oppressor of Christians are Muslims.
    __

    Notwithstanding Yahya’s desperate propaganda, there is every reason to believe that Christians Zones within Jewish Palestine would have been highly successful. Practitioners of Judaism have little interest in the New Testament sites that are key to Christian tradition.

    Christian areas would have a work ethic to yield jobs & income for residents plus taxes to pay for services. Compare that to the Gaza deadbeat problem, where unemployment is ~50%.

    Christian Zone special declarations would mostly be obvious (e.g. Sunday rules, exemption from Saturday rules, availability of pork products). This would tend to discourage demographic shifts changing the character of Christian majority towns.

    To the extent additional protections would be needed, they would mostly be driven by secular pressures. For example, Bethlehem’s favourable location could create a housing affordability problem if a deft hand was not present.

    If one can ignore the torrent of low credibility propaganda by Yahya and his agitator compatriots, there are significant opportunities for progress.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.raymondibrahim.com/2022/12/25/bethlehem-christianity-dying-where-it-began/

  253. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    But what is the point of that? I guess just personal gratification, but that is nothing to build a civilization or society on. We have that now and it seems to suck.

    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?

    To me these seem like fundamental problems and symptoms of a dysfunctional society. How do you see the libertarian/ self interested consumer model as yielding a functional society?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?

    Hyper atomization is a problem but I see that just largely as a function of prosperity, technology and cultural diversity. The former two you can’t do anything about I don’t believe the 3rd would have happened if not for fiat money. Get rid of fiat money, and cultural diversity will take care of itself once new immigration is shut down and the current non white population groups in the West assimilate.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    Maybe you are correct and maybe not. It doesn't really matter though, since those things will be unlikely to happen any time soon. Actually the only mechanism that I can think of to make this happen to any extent is widespread societal collapse, which I would actually be okay with, for a variety of reasons. I suspect we would agree there.

    The real question is what to do in the meantime, since one can't just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  254. @Yahya
    @LatW

    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks. You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.

    There are certainly many positive aspects about Israel that can be deemed praiseworthy.

    Just as there are of Russia. But personally I wouldn't blanket-praise Russia at times when it is behaving badly; as it is today. Not a good idea to give ammunition to the barbarians. I think the same should be true for Israel.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

     

    Oof, tough question.

    I gave it some thought and came to this conclusion: I know it when I see it.

    I don't think any definition can capture the nuance of racism.

    It can only be perceived by the human sense.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  255. @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    Turns out it was mainly Mazel Tov than Nazi Stuff.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Turns out it was mainly Mazel Tov than Nazi Stuff.

    They put swastikas and the portrait of parteigenosse everywhere, including their tattoos (that’s how DPR fighters recognized them to separate from civilians). They burn books in public spaces, just like the German Nazis did. Then again, there are theories that the original worshippers of swastikas and parteigenosse were also Mazel Tov creation. I don’t know. The only thing I know is that they are repulsive.

    Mind you, I am not saying that Ukies are real Nazis. Nazis would sue me for libel if I did. Ukies don’t measure up by a long chalk. As Marx said, “History repeats itself first as tragedy then as farce”. However, Ukie farce is pretty bloody.

  256. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya


    But I would go further in saying that the conflict can only truly be solved if Israelis adopt the Arabic language and fuse identities with Palestinians. In effect; become real Palestinian Jews. May seem far-fetched but half the Jewish population already spoke Arabic just one generation ago. If an abrupt switch to Hebrew can be made; then the opposite is also possible.
     
    Lol. You're so predictable. Exactly as I described you previously.

    Anyway, why would the Israelis do what you suggest? They could remove all Palestinians from all areas they currently control if they wanted to. Sure, the international reaction would be outrage and they would be totally isolated*, but they could wait it out for a decade or so.

    *Actually probably the Chinese, Russians and various others wouldn't care.

    Instead, it is the Palestinians who I would imagine would be more motivated to do something like this as they hold no cards and exist solely because of the humanitarian instincts of the Israelis, not that those instincts are strong.

    Ultimately, the fact that the Palestinians haven't accepted that they are totally defeated yet likely won't change any time soon, nor will the fact that the Israelis are unwilling to be the monsters they would require to be to end the conflict tomorrow from their side. This means it will simmer on, until one side does what is in its power to resolve things. And really the Palestinians only have surrender and the Israelis only have monstrous victory.

    Maybe there is also a potential peace agreement, but I don't really see it.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    I think they’ll get the Jews eventually.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke

    Some would say Insha'Allah...

    😉

  257. @A123
    @songbird


    Don’t know if anyone has ever remarked on this trend, but recently noticed something I thought was pretty significant.

    I think the number of fences in suburban America (maybe, European countries too?) must have really skyrocketed sometime after 1980.
     
    To my eye, lot size versus house size for new construction has packed more building on less space. Most people do not want others looking inside their house except for the front windows. This makes fencing essential. When there was more physical separation, well placed trees and shrubs fixed the sight line issue.

    Lawsuits, zoning, and HOA restrictions also play a role. Having a trampoline or pool requires fencing. It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.

    Yes, I’ll bet one of the biggest influences behind it was leash law. My father used to have a dog, and when he was drafted, it used to go to visit all his friends, looking for him.

    Leash laws must have had some strange and unintended effects on society. Wonder if so many people would despair, if someone’s golden retriever was running around visiting everyone. Probably wouldn’t be so many pitbulls. Maybe, coyotes? And perhaps some dogs would have bitten the worst of the freaks, and so discouraged them.


    Reminds me something of Osama’s compound in Abbottabad.

    I suppose it makes sense for the area, but it does not make my heart sing like an old mossy stone wall.

    • Agree: A123, Barbarossa
    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    Leash laws must have had some strange and unintended effects on society. Wonder if so many people would despair, if someone’s golden retriever was running around visiting everyone.
     
    Something is defiantly lost...

    Tight leash laws make things like this virtually impossible.

     
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj_EwHVELTRjRyEXIv0r5gp3YhzYn5ZX7Q9BTmyv2sSTyCr3rg1vSQYn3VhxN50NIrmrg8xL1PLXY4zXOLdPuS40qkpJhrniPAvyssfIrv2y9DQKspYB3hdQ6qfKhh6R_DWIaA1h2zET6YlHPqlTh6B-b6LPzkLINfPirG9KtYWFU6SyxFYDIJNx5W8/w370-h400/g1673978995_25g.gif
     

    PEACE 😇
  258. @Yahya
    @songbird


    But I believe you are really just showing your prejudice against them, if you think that the category broadly aligns out of skin color.
     
    You have reading comprehension problems. I never mentioned skin color; because a) that's not the primary basis for race, b) I am not an American ignoramus who thinks Israelis are "white" and Palestinians "brown". Israelis are lighter on average; but there's significant overlap in skin color between Israelis and Palestinians.

    Also you are doing that thing again where you conflate my criticisms of individuals like LatW with a broader criticism of "racists" as a group. While I do not like racists and don't mind criticizing them; that wasn't my intention in that specific post. I don't know what their views are on the Israeli-Palestine conflict; or if they have a consistent one either. You simply misinterpreted me.


    and my moral priorities should be in picking one side, and throwing my support behind it,
     
    I don't fault you for not taking sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict. In fact I commend you for it. My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel; especially if they hypocritically view Russian behavior vis-a-vis Ukraine as the worst thing to happen since Hitler; but see Israel's similar (except more successful) behavior as something worthy or admirable.

    But there's nothing wrong with being neutral in any particular conflict. No-one is obligated to opine on each and every issue around the globe. But if you're going to express an opinion; it's good to be consistent in your views.


    Greeks and Armenians were ethnically cleansed from larger territories. Where is Arab sympathy for them?
     
    Well Arab countries took in Armenian refugees during the genocide. Many of the survivors fled to the Northern parts of Syria around Aleppo; and some of their descendants are still there and in Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon. Interestingly they are disproportionately represented in music and television (Lena Chemamyan, Julia Boutros, Seta Hagopian etc.). There's this one Iraqi-Armenian called Beatrice Ohanessian who was the first concert pianist in Iraq:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KyCzX-exws&t=176s&ab_channel=a1s2d3f4g5q1w2e3

    I once read a book called "An Egyptian Soldier" by an Armenian who had been drafted during the Egyptian-Israeli conflict. He described the misery he endured serving in the Egyptian army; to which he felt no loyalty to. He tried to explain to his officers that he is a foreigner and should be exempted from service; but they were in need of educated soldiers. He eventually immigrated to Canada where he wrote the book basically shitting on Egypt and the army. I was kind of irritated that he didn't say anything nice about Egypt even though it granted his family shelter from the genocide. But perhaps he had reason for feeling resentful. The Armenian president has expressed gratitude on behalf of Armenians on the anniversary of the genocide though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m4mBuKOYvg&ab_channel=ArabNews

    The most memorable book I've read on this topic is called Martyred Armenia; authored by Faiz El-Ghusein. It's a short eyewitness account of the genocide by a Syrian elder who was exiled to southeastern Turkey by the Ottoman authorities and witnessed the events first-hand. It was very saddening to read.


    Some excerpts:


    Is it right that these imposters, who pretend to be the supports of Islam and the Khilâfat, the protectors of the Moslems, should transgress the command of God, transgress the Koran, the Traditions of the Prophet, and humanity? Truly, they have committed an act at which Islam is revolted, as well as all Moslems and all the peoples of the earth, be they Moslems, Christians, Jews, or idolators. As God lives, it is a shameful deed, the like of which has not been done by any people counting themselves as civilised.

    ----------

    Narrative of a Provincial Governor.—We were talking of the courage and good qualities of the Armenians, and the Governor of the place, who was with us, told us a singular story. He said: "According to orders, I collected all the remaining Armenians, consisting of 17 women and some children, amongst whom was a child of 3 years old, diseased, who had never been able to walk. When the butchers began slaughtering the women and the turn of the child's mother came, he rose up on his feet and ran for a space, then falling down. We were astonished at this, and at his understanding that his mother was to be killed. A gendarme went and took hold of him, and laid him dead on his dead mother." He also said that he had seen one of these women eating a piece of bread as she went up to the butcher, another smoking a cigarette, and that it was as though they cared nothing for death.

    ----------

    After passing the night at Sivrek we left early in the morning. As we approached Diarbekir the corpses became more numerous, and on our route we met companies of women going to Sivrek under guard of gendarmes, weary and wretched, the traces of tears and misery plain on their faces—a plight to bring tears of blood from stones, and move the compassion of beasts of prey. What, in God's name, had these women done? Had they made war on the Turks, or killed even one of them? What was the crime of these hapless creatures, whose sole offence was that they were Armenians, skilled in the management of their homes and the training of their children, with no thought beyond the comfort of their husbands and sons, and the fulfilment of their duties towards them.

    ----------

    I ask you, O Moslems—is this to be counted as a crime? Think for a moment. What was the fault of these poor women? Was it in their being superior to the Turkish women in every respect? Even assuming that their men had merited such treatment, is it right that these women should be dealt with in a manner from which wild beasts would recoil? God has said in the Koran: "Do not load one with another's burthens," that is, Let not one be punished for another.

    What had these weak women done, and what had their infants done? Can the men of the Turkish Government bring forward even a feeble proof to justify their action and to convince the people of Islam, who hold that action for unlawful and reject it? No; they can find no word to say before a people whose usages are founded on justice, and their laws on wisdom and reason.

    ----------

    Children Perishing of Hunger and Thirst.—An Arab of El-Jezîra, who accompanied me on my flight from Diarbekir, told me that he had gone with a Sheikh of his tribe, men and camels, to buy grain from the sons of Ibrahim Pasha El-Mellili. On their way they saw 17 children, the eldest not more than 13 years old, dying of hunger and thirst. The Arab said: "We had with us a small water-skin and a little food. When the Sheikh saw them he wept with pity, and gave them food and water with his own hands; but what good could this small supply do to them? We reflected that if we took them with us to the Pasha, they would be killed, as the Kurds were killing all Armenians by order of the authorities; and our Arabs were at five days' distance from the place. So we had no choice but to leave them to the mercy of God, and on our return, a week later, we found them all dead."

    ----------

     

    Replies: @songbird

    My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel

    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn’t cuck, and they admire that – though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

    Honestly, don’t know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don’t. The most pro-European among them (rare individuals) seem to insist that the rights of Europeans are only actualized because of the Holocaust. (That is, the example of the Holocaust justifies why someone would not want to become a minority) It is pretty grating.

    Thanks, for the excerpt.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @songbird


    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn’t cuck, and they admire that – though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

     

    Yes that's what i'm beginning to understand. Western Rightoids admire the ethnocentrism and resistance to cuckery of Israel; they don't particularly care for the conflict or specific Israeli policies.

    I should however point out that "based" Israel is in large part a product of their Mizrahi population. A substantial portion of the secular Ashkenazim have cucked; but the Mizrahim keep Israel grounded.

    The obvious solution then for Europe to regain its manhood and resist the migratory invasion is to import a whole bunch of MENA people.

    Honestly, don’t know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don’t.
     
    I believe Netanyahu has expressed the need for Europe to tighten immigration laws: "In his 1995 book Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorism, Netanyahu strongly argued that tightening immigration laws in the West is the most effective method to combat terrorism. "This era of immigration free-for-all should be brought to an end", he wrote in 1995. Netanyahu has urged the leaders of Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Poland to close their borders to illegal immigration."

    I do wonder why the European right doesn't point more often to Israel as a template for immigration control. I know Trump referenced their wall a few times; but otherwise there's little talk of emulating Israel. Perhaps in Europe most people don't really like Israel so it's not a winning argument. But in the US it would be wise to constantly point to Israel as an example of "what needs to be done".

    On the other hand; the Hispanics flooding in to the US aren't really comparable to Palestinians. They're not out to terrorize the American population; aren't engaged in a conscious existential battle for territory and sovereignty; and aren't really hated by any signifcant portion of the American population. So you're fighting an uphill battle; imo one that is already lost to some extent.

    Replies: @songbird

  259. @Barbarossa
    @LatW

    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    Out of curiosity, what does NRx stand for?

    Thanks. I concede predictability, but when NRX was mentoned…

      

    Nitro Rallycross series….

    PEACE 😇

  260. To chime in on the locking your door bit again:

    Knew someone who had their door opened by a crazy pan-handler, and they were napping, when the pan-handler came in.

    My grandmother was once beset by a family of Gypsies who sat on the floor and demanded that she make them tea.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Thanks. I should have prefaced my statement that I don't lock my doors by also stating that I have dogs on my property. They are just loose, which is the advantage to living kind of in the middle of nowhere. Nice dogs, but they are good watch dogs and certainly would take more decisive action if anyone was trying to hurt us. I hear the dogs bark at any car that is coming down my dirt road at least a 1/4 mile before I ever hear the car.

    As far as cars go, I do lock my doors in a city but never in the local areas. Fortunately, I don't find that my mid 90's to 2000 (but rust free from the South!) vehicles are much of a carjacking temptation!

    I do think that there is a psychological component to it as well. I really like living in an area where I don't feel like I have to lock my doors. I would have to put myself in a much more suspicious/ guarded mindset when I'm around my own home and local towns to actually bother locking my doors, which feels like a big loss and mental shift. If I locked all my doors would I be contributing just a bit to making my area the kind of place that requires me to lock my doors? If me and all my neighbors changed our mindsets that way, how would that subtlety change our attitudes and interactions with each other?

    Maybe it seems crazy and foolish, but it's how I roll and it's served me well so far, so I guess I can't mess with success!

    Replies: @songbird

  261. @Yahya
    @LatW

    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks. You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.

    There are certainly many positive aspects about Israel that can be deemed praiseworthy.

    Just as there are of Russia. But personally I wouldn't blanket-praise Russia at times when it is behaving badly; as it is today. Not a good idea to give ammunition to the barbarians. I think the same should be true for Israel.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    I apologize for my previous harsh remarks.

    I apologize as well if I upset you, I understand how it would make you feel (trust me). My comments were made in haste (due to time limitation as I have obligations out there in real life) and I am not always able to formulate accurately and in great detail what I perceive.

    I’m aware from your posts that you are a very intelligent young gentleman, very smart and articulate for your age. This is a kind of “anything goes” type of forum and I think we all must grow a slightly thicker skin here (even if we are all sensitive people, of course). I know, easier said than done (in the case of myself above all). 🙂

    [MORE]

    You are neither a racist nor an ignoramus.

    I’m not a racist (as in supremacist), but I am a racialist. Basically, people can be different because they are made that way, nobody is better or worse, but their qualities are often determined by their geographical space, and everyone has their own living space that should be respected. I’m aware that even this milder version is too “biological” for many to swallow, well, so be it. I do allow some minor exceptions (only a few small ones), and in real life I am mostly very kind to non-Whites. Although I do try to avoid certain non-Whites in Western Europe (I’ve been followed around a lot, and prefer to be with a companion). I just want to put it out there and be clear, so that next time I write something, you are able to better understand my position and don’t have negative emotions.

    Btw, I had heard of Norman Finkelstein, he is a controversial dude who is quite well known in the right wing circles (because of his criticism of the Jews, obviously). But I haven’t read his books. I felt a slight bias there because he seemed like a Jew who is resentful towards his own people and is trying to be spiteful. I wouldn’t say “self-hating” but just one of those types who enjoys pissing off his own group. But maybe I’m wrong, I’m sure he’s scrupulous enough to present plenty of facts.

  262. @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Simple people looking for a scapegoat love a straightforward moral dichotomy. I haven't really paid attention to McDonald but I suppose that his moral fable of Western Civilization and the Jews is quite useful for his purposes.

    It makes everyone feel special to have an outlet to externalize their frustrations!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Kevin McDonald was writing from the point of view of biological psychology, which he saw as a result of different human populations’ adaptation to different environments. Basically a psychological take on HBD.

    The ton of letters that Aaron has unloaded on the poor man has nearly nothing to do with his academic work. But hey, that’s the way most Jews react to what they see as criticism of their mindset.

    As I wrote previously, Aaron is simply unable to leave his inner Qahal rest despite his humanistic, transcendental, mystical grandstanding. A guy can talk hours about Zen and Dao and then suddenly exhibit an extreme bias when his ethnic identity is presented in an unflattering manner.

    Happens to the best of us…

    🙂

    [MORE]

    That being said, The Culture of Critique by K. McDonald is the American equivalent of Russophobia by Igor Shafarevich. Except that Russophobia was written a decade before Culture of Critique. Another notable difference is that Shafarevich was writing post factum after the destruction of the “classic Russian society” by the (Judeo)Bolshevik Revolution, while McDonald was writing during the process of disintegration of the “classic American society” by the critical theory (hence the title).

    He was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite.

    After the publication of his books, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth form the usual corners…

    A good and useful read.

    🙂

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Actually, I was defending European civilization from McDonald, not Jews :)

    McDonald erases the grand spiritual journey of Europe that culminated in nihilism - and is of world-historical importance - in favor of biology.

    So I was also defending "Spirit" over the usual insipid materialism.

    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don't care for Western European civilization - it's not your "genetic lineage" or "oikumene" - but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it's one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy - to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.

    Well, it would be if McDonald wasn't largely ignored.

    McDonald once wrote that Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson - who wrote about learning spiritual lessons from India and were critical of Establishment America in it's soulless materialism - were utterly puzzling outliers who "turned against their people" for some unknown biological reason.

    Evidently he hadn't heard of the massive cultural critical movement of Romanticism who they were a part of.

    You can't make this stuff up. And McDonald wonders why his "thesis" doesn't pass the threshold of engagement from scholars of intellectual history.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite...A good and useful read.
     
    Thanks for this and your following heartfelt post on the subject.

    Bottom line, and leaving aside all the less than helpful name calling some engage in, the over intellectualizing, and legalism, which is ultimately all besides the point, do European peoples (not to mention non-European peoples as well) have the right of self determination, the right to govern their own affairs, and to not be dominated by an alien minority?

    In that, no matter how well meaning another individual might tell themselves that they are, and may well even sincerely believe, they can not in any healthy manner run another individual's life, it is the very same dynamic between peoples.

    So, yes, of course European peoples have this right.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  263. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think they'll get the Jews eventually.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Some would say Insha’Allah…

    😉

  264. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    Neoreaction.

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    Popularized by fans of Curtis Yarvin 10+ years ago at the onset of the Anthropocene Epoch. It is jargon used by people who spend too much time attached to their computer and ought to go out in the woods for a long walk.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    The origin of Dark Enlightment are perhaps with the obscure British philosopher, Nick Land, who later emigrated to Shanghai, as he was earlier a proponent of something called “accelerationism” (and Shanghai was definitely “accelerating” in his eyes), a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90’ties in the form of faith in technology, a process which was to lead to some kind of singularity both in technological and in social terms. I heard from another interesting philosopher/sociologist, Steve Fuller, who personally known him at the University of Warwick, that Nick Land was indeed a compelling man.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Culture_Research_Unit

    Some of his writings are still online:

    https://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/#comment-166601

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    , a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90’ties in the form of faith in technology,
     
    Yes, he was so optimistic about the outcome of the technological progress that his most notable book is literally titled Fanged Noumena.

    Fanged Noumena: Collected Writings 1987-2007 https://g.co/kgs/KnC2Vr

    It was so optimistic about the future of technology that it helped me cure myself from transhumanism when I read it shortly after its publication.

    And Nick Land is neither truly a philosopher, nor obscure. His style is just not to everyone’s tastes.



    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/1622285741505089539

    That's his Twitter.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180213122613/http://www.xenosystems.net/

    That was his blog.

    https://zerophilosophy.substack.com/

    This is his substack.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective

  265. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The origin of Dark Enlightment are perhaps with the obscure British philosopher, Nick Land, who later emigrated to Shanghai, as he was earlier a proponent of something called "accelerationism" (and Shanghai was definitely "accelerating" in his eyes), a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90'ties in the form of faith in technology, a process which was to lead to some kind of singularity both in technological and in social terms. I heard from another interesting philosopher/sociologist, Steve Fuller, who personally known him at the University of Warwick, that Nick Land was indeed a compelling man.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetic_Culture_Research_Unit

    Some of his writings are still online:

    https://www.thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/#comment-166601

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90’ties in the form of faith in technology,

    Yes, he was so optimistic about the outcome of the technological progress that his most notable book is literally titled Fanged Noumena.

    Fanged Noumena: Collected Writings 1987-2007 https://g.co/kgs/KnC2Vr

    It was so optimistic about the future of technology that it helped me cure myself from transhumanism when I read it shortly after its publication.

    And Nick Land is neither truly a philosopher, nor obscure. His style is just not to everyone’s tastes.

    [MORE]

    That’s his Twitter.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180213122613/http://www.xenosystems.net/

    That was his blog.

    https://zerophilosophy.substack.com/

    This is his substack.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Ivashka the fool

    Does Fanged Noumena make more or less sense than the Amazon listing, out of curiosity? The editorial reviews were worth reading in and of themselves for such gems as,


    Theory as cyberpunk fiction: Land's machinic theory-poetry parallelled the digital intensities of 90s jungle, techno, and doomcore, anticipating “impending human extinction becoming accessible as a dancefloor.”
     
    Ha!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I did not say that Land was optimistic, just that 90'ties were optimistic. This optimism about the inevitability of technical progress evolved into faith into technological singularity and transhumanism, which couldn't (or shouldn't) be stopped anymore, reducing human control over the entire process - that again was kind of pessimistic or "dark" for many. As I said, I heard about Land (in positive terms) not from Mencius Goldbug but from Steve Fuller (interesting author but more conventional than Land), who is a convinced and optimistic transhumanist.

    Accelerationism is a range of Marxist and reactionary ideas in critical and social theory that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change and other social processes in order to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformation, otherwise known as "acceleration".[

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    Nevertheless, it is reasonable to say that Nick Land rose out of that spirit of the '90ties. Even his research was conducted within Cybernetic Culture Research Unit - the name says it all.
    And yes, he was originally a philosopher who became a cultural theorist. Apparently, at Warwick philosophers transform into someone else - Fuller became a sociologist of knowledge.

    Isn't Land obscure..? Well, he has fans but is not widely known outside certain circles, I would say. Maybe in Russia he would be liked more - all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

  266. Okay, so the Russian offensive is finally set to begin sometime in the next 5 to 18 days. What can we expect?

    One interesting thing is that Anatoli seems to be showing some optimism (from the Russian perspective) about the offensive. I personally don’t really see it. I think what is probably going to happen is a 3 axis attack with the idea of breaking through the lines and trapping all or most of the eastern Ukrainian front in a cauldron. In theory it could work but I don’t think that Russia has the mapower or the C&C to succeed in the task.

    Furthermore, I think that the UAF will counter attack and annihilate the Russian pincers. Have you noticed that Ukraine has only been either sending fresh conscripts to the places like Bakhmut or Vuhledar or moving troops around on the line? Where is the strategic reserve? It is being kept behind the lines to counter the anticipated Russian breakthrough.

    The good news is that after the Russian offensive fails, there is a possibility that Putin realizes that he will not be able to conquer Ukraine so he will just cash in his chips and sign an armistice.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Greasy William

    The two previous Russian pushes have been hampered logistics. Why try something over ambitious... Again?

    Turning Kharkiv into a pile of uninhabitable rubble would be demoralizing and present straightforward logistics. It could easily be something else. I am not even offering up Kharkiv as a "prediction". The expectations should be bland, supportable, and good on force preservation.

    Remember, Time is on Putin's side. The long-term strategy is forcing Kiev aggression to expend resources faster than they can be replaced. Victory by bankruptcy is more available & less wasteful.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  267. @Greasy William
    Okay, so the Russian offensive is finally set to begin sometime in the next 5 to 18 days. What can we expect?

    One interesting thing is that Anatoli seems to be showing some optimism (from the Russian perspective) about the offensive. I personally don't really see it. I think what is probably going to happen is a 3 axis attack with the idea of breaking through the lines and trapping all or most of the eastern Ukrainian front in a cauldron. In theory it could work but I don't think that Russia has the mapower or the C&C to succeed in the task.

    Furthermore, I think that the UAF will counter attack and annihilate the Russian pincers. Have you noticed that Ukraine has only been either sending fresh conscripts to the places like Bakhmut or Vuhledar or moving troops around on the line? Where is the strategic reserve? It is being kept behind the lines to counter the anticipated Russian breakthrough.

    The good news is that after the Russian offensive fails, there is a possibility that Putin realizes that he will not be able to conquer Ukraine so he will just cash in his chips and sign an armistice.

    Replies: @A123

    The two previous Russian pushes have been hampered logistics. Why try something over ambitious… Again?

    Turning Kharkiv into a pile of uninhabitable rubble would be demoralizing and present straightforward logistics. It could easily be something else. I am not even offering up Kharkiv as a “prediction”. The expectations should be bland, supportable, and good on force preservation.

    Remember, Time is on Putin’s side. The long-term strategy is forcing Kiev aggression to expend resources faster than they can be replaced. Victory by bankruptcy is more available & less wasteful.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?

    I think these captives break down into several groups:

    1) Committed NeoNazi-types, including a few possible "crimes against humanity" candidates
    2) Power brokers arrested for conspiring against someone or another
    3) Combat troops
    4) Simple criminals.

    I wonder if some of the recent Russian manpower build up is intended to have enough manpower in terms of military police and others to deal with this aspect of the SMO.

    Replies: @A123

  268. Now that the Great Balloon Panic of 2023 has passed us, it is high time to address the context of why the Chinese balloon (which is actually an endoatmospheric satellite) graced our nation’s woefully open airspace in the opening days of February.

    The event likely occurred because Beijing’s leadership was trying to figure out just what the hell is going on in the government of the United States. As someone who lives here, I don’t know, either. In the eyes of much of the rest of the world presently, America’s leadership does not appear very stable. Nations are scrambling to get readings on what’s happening within our borders so that they can make informed strategies.

    https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/why-did-china-send-a-balloon/

  269. @Greasy William
    I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot's of Ukrainians won't win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine's army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia's politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn't win wars. Ukraine's advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it's territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin's government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234, @RadicalCenter

    Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot’s of Ukrainians won’t win Russia the war

    Wow. WTF? Did your Rabbi molest you as a kid? Don’t get me mistaken – every one of your comments is silly about what is probably one of the most one-sided, dominant wars in history – but that section of your comment is particularly stupid.

    Mobilisation rate in the Great Patriotic war was about 7% you dummy. Total war. Highest-intensity conflict. USSR having probably one of its highest rates ever of available young adults to conscript because of the population explosion in the mid-1920’s after USSR fully consolidated……..and despite all that necessity and appropriate conditions – mobilisation rate could not exceed 7%.

    Ukronazis are getting incinerated at extremely high rates by our heavily outnumbered heroes in a very localised conflict of, overall in comparison to GPW, medium intensity . This after 6 waves of mobilisation. Any imbecile can see where this is going.

    To me its clear that “Ukraine”/fuckheadistan has less than 20 million people living in this decrepit failed state since the war….not much better than 25 milllion just before SMO. But if you take the figure of 25 million, than that’s 11 million men (much lower death rates of women than men in ex USSR, so not assuming 12.5M). Extremely low birth rates of kids this millenium in 404 would show maybe 2 million of them are boys, 3 million of them pension-age men. You could argue up to a million men of working adult age are simply physically and or mentally unfit to perform military duties. That’s 5 million men who could be mobilised . I could just add a few thousand and put 10% component of women in to make it 6 million soldiers. 7% mobilised of the 25 million is 1.7 million. You can add police, border guard and others as out of that 1.7 million, although probably should include Ukropgvardia – but the numbers will still be closer to 1.7M than to 2Million.

    You could argue that the usual factors restraining maximum numbers on the frontline – the need for people working to keep the country to keep running, the need for wartime industrial capacities and businesses to be maximimised so as to support the war effort and make any military action possible…..is neutered by 404’s long-time self-destroyed, and SMO destroyed industries anyway, already dead economy …..which correspondingly is neutered by the whole open-border military-supply capacity from NATO via EU states that can’t be targeted (unlike Hitlers massive industrial capacity with most of continental Europe area producing for it – which at least could be targeted at source) …..and all the women and children who are out of the country which all in turn help maximise the number of male soldiers. But that argument would be wrong.

    A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million is currently chemically transferring into good fertiliser already. A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million ( max potential) is currently permanently crippled despite the best efforts of german hospitals. A huge proportion will be unable or unwilling to fight against professional soldiers . IF the aim of ours is to liberate all Novorossiyan territories, then a still big proportion of the 1.7 million could never ever be transferred from Kiev/ North or Galicia to fight in the South and East.
    Bullet wounds are a fraction in comparison to wounds from heavy artillery in the SMO- incredibly more than in any arena of WW2, Vietnam, Korea etc – all of which favours continued disproportionate ukronazi casualties in comparison to ours.

    Stop regurgitating anglo-american subhuman propaganda you clown. Any sane person can see this is going very well

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Gerard1234

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves - by any count - about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years - plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    This will not end because Kiev runs out of manpower. One of two things will happen in 23:
    - Ukie morale breaks and large enough numbers refuse to fight
    - Russia escalates to massive destruction of Ukie infrastructure, logistics, even big cities.

    Russia obviously prefers the first one. The whole point of Nato effort is to prevent morale collapse with the 'Ukies are winning' propaganda, weapons, visits, etc... they also still faintly hope for Russia's internal collapse (very unlikely).

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about? Who would enforce any settlement? How long before it would restart? After 2014-22, Russia will not settle for a 'deal', they would have to be defeated.

    The situation is not that complex: Ukies are resisting, kicking and biting furiously as Nato cheers on from the sidelines. Russia wants to minimize the bites and still retains residual unwillingness to simply smash the Ukies. Each bite makes it less likely that Russia could walk away. The Nato cheerleaders have written off Kiev, they just enjoy the show and hope that Russia gets bloodied. Or that the war can be called off at some point with something remaining of Ukieland as 'anti-Russia' for the next round.

    Everyone other than Russia has thrown all they have to the war. It looks like Russia will try one more 'morale collapse' in the next few months. If Ukies refuse to give in, we will get the Nato-style 'shock-and-awe' to finish the job. Westerners, who mostly live with their heads in the sand will be 'shocked' that wars are fought that way and will refuse to acknowledge that they did it many times themselves...but that won't matter much.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    I will be unsurprised if we find out that Ukraine has sustained fewer than 30,000 military deaths in the entire year of warfare.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

  270. @songbird
    To chime in on the locking your door bit again:

    Knew someone who had their door opened by a crazy pan-handler, and they were napping, when the pan-handler came in.

    My grandmother was once beset by a family of Gypsies who sat on the floor and demanded that she make them tea.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Thanks. I should have prefaced my statement that I don’t lock my doors by also stating that I have dogs on my property. They are just loose, which is the advantage to living kind of in the middle of nowhere. Nice dogs, but they are good watch dogs and certainly would take more decisive action if anyone was trying to hurt us. I hear the dogs bark at any car that is coming down my dirt road at least a 1/4 mile before I ever hear the car.

    As far as cars go, I do lock my doors in a city but never in the local areas. Fortunately, I don’t find that my mid 90’s to 2000 (but rust free from the South!) vehicles are much of a carjacking temptation!

    I do think that there is a psychological component to it as well. I really like living in an area where I don’t feel like I have to lock my doors. I would have to put myself in a much more suspicious/ guarded mindset when I’m around my own home and local towns to actually bother locking my doors, which feels like a big loss and mental shift. If I locked all my doors would I be contributing just a bit to making my area the kind of place that requires me to lock my doors? If me and all my neighbors changed our mindsets that way, how would that subtlety change our attitudes and interactions with each other?

    Maybe it seems crazy and foolish, but it’s how I roll and it’s served me well so far, so I guess I can’t mess with success!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I hear the dogs bark at any car that is coming down my dirt road at least a 1/4 mile before I ever hear the car.
     
    Country dogs don't always make the transition to the suburbs well, even if you have a nice-sized lot. I have known such to bark at people walking down the next street over, or loud cars going down the next street over.

    The country really is a dog's paradise.

    But I think I do notice something of a decline in attitudes around the subject of unleashed dogs in the country. I'd say it is a kind of wokeism, due to some people who aren't from the country settling there.

    Fortunately, I don’t find that my mid 90’s to 2000 (but rust free from the South!) vehicles are much of a carjacking temptation!
     
    Sometimes, you need to wear goggles, if you get under an old car that's been around up here. Makes you wonder why they aren't made out of stainless steel.

    Speaking of unlocked car doors, I once knew someone who was supposed to meet a fellow back in the parking lot, after going to some store. After waiting for a while, the fellow asks, where is he? And he gets out of his truck and starts looking around, sees the other guy sitting in someone else's rusty old truck. What is notable is that he had a new truck.
  271. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    the NRx
     
    The NRx is interesting purely to explore (safely from a distance) and maybe get some occassional exciting sensations. But it's not something that a large enough pool of people would adopt to have impact. But the very idea of the Dark Enlightenment is to have impact with small, but radical actions. This is something to be pondered but it's not a thing to be discussed online (or openly).

    Alt Right dissidents
     
    If the Alt Right dissidents want to just be contrarians or be in a permanent state of struggle without building anything, that's their choice (I will agree that some of them want to build something but are not allowed to, however, many don't, they just want to be antagonistic and adversarial). Back a few years ago there was a very attractive group, the Rise Above group in CA. It would appear outwardly that they had no positive program and just wanted to cause altercations, but they actually did - they created a certain very healthy aesthetic and had some discipline (athletic culture). But of course, they were stifled at the very root. Because their approach was combative (it was understandable, but such won't be allowed). But it was an attractive group that, had they worked quietly, maybe would have built something.

    When Greasy writes that “there is nothing worth preserving in America” he comes out as some of these young Alt Right types.
     
    Not entirely. Many of the Alt Right types wanted something more conservative, just couldn't get it. I don't know this for sure, but I think someone like this Nick Fuentes guy is quite genuine in describing the kind of society he would want to live in. If he had the kind of society that he yearns for, he probably wouldn't call women "femoids", he would behave conservatively and have a normal life. But maybe I'm wrong (and he's another contrarian on principle).

    The issue I found with Greasy is that he doesn't appear to be too invested in anything. There are great things in America worth preserving (and you will even find people who will do it), but he doesn't seem to see those things or he may not be bothered to live that way. Would Greasy be happy if the woke were gone one day? I think he would find something else to complain about. But again, I may be wrong. Some people are contrarians for the purpose of being that way, eternal oppositioners. I must admit, I like this quality, but the saner part of me always asks for something more positive, creative. By positive I do not mean something "nice", but something that is pro-actively built up with a clear vision behind it.

    Plus, I don't know how these approaches can co-exist in a right wing environment, when on the one hand you have more conservative types who are invested in society (I know, the so called "cuckservatives"), but also these other more destructive types.

    So in generel, accelerationism is worth while the attention. But for me someone more mellow such as Guillaume Faye would probably be more appealing. So accelerationism might be ok if the West were to become completely unsalvageable, or it might be ok in Russia (that system, too, of old KGBshniks is rotten to the core).

    But I would not support accelerationism within the territory of the Intermarium (including Ukraine) and not in Scandinavia (Scandinavia just needs stricter immigration laws).


    This is a new type of Right thought, not the one directed towards preservation of “good old” American/European/Jewish/Islamic/whatever values, but towards the destruction of what is seen as utterly and irredeemably corrupt.
     
    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism. Also, some of these Right wing types in fact justify their actions with the "fight for the old values". Maybe they just use them as a pretext. I have thought about this quite a bit in fact, but it is not to be discussed openly.

    I sometimes feel the streak of this type of thought in my older daughter who is more of a leftist and in my second younger son who is a hard-core right winger (and I am of course proud of him).
     
    Yes, there are some interesting things with Gen Z. But they are probably too young still, at that age some kids are into such ideas. What I have noticed anecdotally though in the US and Canada, is that the Gen Z girls tend to veer even more left than let's say Millennial women, and the boys are either secular leftists or far right. How are they going to live together in the future? I think this should be avoided in the Intermarium.

    But, yes, boys are more receptive to right wing ideas, military stuff, etc. Which I agree, feels great to see. It's amazing how early the boys catch on to these things. But it's important to direct them to be kind. So that everything is in balance.


    Both of them can express very extreme attitudes bordering on nihilism when they talk about contemporary society.
     
    It might be that it is hard for many kids to accept the more confusing and negative sides of today's society, some kids opt out. I've seen some teenagers take that route.

    And I know that they’re not the only ones around, many of their friends are quite disgruntled on both the left and right ends of the youthful political spectrum.
     
    Right, but keep in mind that some of them will change and stabilize as they grow up.

    There does seem not much idealism left.
     
    Maybe... but in most societies, only a certain fraction of people are true idealists. But it is true that the society in the West is quite atomized, polarized. But there are new ideals such as "green living".

    The “old ways” of both Left and Right seem obsolete. Perhaps the “cultural Marxist” are to the Left what the “Alt Right” are to the Right ?

    Perhaps both will end up accelerating the decay and the subsequent transformation of the Western societies ?
     

    If they keep growing and no longer remain on the margins, then maybe.

    One thing is sure : it is impossible to build one’s ideology on destruction only. One needs to also want to build and create something. One cannot only hate, one also needs to love.
     
    This is what normal right wing ideology is based on. The love of one's own. And it can even be love of humanity, because a great far right leader will support those, of any nationality, who just want to live according to their roots and culture, in their own God given home.

    And, of course, a positive program is always needed. Even someone such as Codreanu, in his group, there were, what one could consider, people using accelerationist methods (in those days). But he always had a positive component as well. The core values were there.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Ivashka the fool

    Always good reading you LatW. Agree with most of what you wrote including that there are things that beyond the pale of internet discussions.

    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism.

    Before one could rebuild, one must destroy. Perhaps we are just entering the stage of an inevitable societal decay. We’ll see in the coming decades.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Before one could rebuild, one must destroy.
     
    A little bit like The Three Metamorphoses in Nietzsche's Zarathustra - the camel, the lion and finally the child.



    By the way, you know who I think was a bit accelerationist? Tesak.

    Another one that sort of stands out and comes to mind is Maxim Bazylev (from НСО). Quite a tragic story actually. But all this activity was clamped down by 2007-2008.
  272. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    , a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90’ties in the form of faith in technology,
     
    Yes, he was so optimistic about the outcome of the technological progress that his most notable book is literally titled Fanged Noumena.

    Fanged Noumena: Collected Writings 1987-2007 https://g.co/kgs/KnC2Vr

    It was so optimistic about the future of technology that it helped me cure myself from transhumanism when I read it shortly after its publication.

    And Nick Land is neither truly a philosopher, nor obscure. His style is just not to everyone’s tastes.



    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/1622285741505089539

    That's his Twitter.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180213122613/http://www.xenosystems.net/

    That was his blog.

    https://zerophilosophy.substack.com/

    This is his substack.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective

    Does Fanged Noumena make more or less sense than the Amazon listing, out of curiosity? The editorial reviews were worth reading in and of themselves for such gems as,

    Theory as cyberpunk fiction: Land’s machinic theory-poetry parallelled the digital intensities of 90s jungle, techno, and doomcore, anticipating “impending human extinction becoming accessible as a dancefloor.”

    Ha!

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Barbarossa

    The book is crazy, but it made a complete sense for me.

    Possibly it was because as a young adult I have read the Two Roads to the Same Cliff by Igor Shafarevich, so I was already primed to believe that both Communism and Capitalism, if pushed to their extremes, would potentially lead to human extinction.

    It was basically a sociological and ideological discussion of the X Risks and a critique of the Technosphere development.

    Land just wrote something similar in a more twisted and humorous manner.

    (Perhaps he had also read Shafarevich, cause he started his academic career as somewhat of a neomarxist and he is also quite interested in mathematics, Shafarevich being both a vocal critic of marxism in the 80ies and an outstanding mathematician, Land might have heard of him. Just guessing...)

    BTW, if you would want a sample of the book here's a videoclip of one of the novels:

    https://youtu.be/fiaWsgtJrNI

    And given it's sheer "craziness", here's one of its sentences discussed in a more normative and comprehensible manner:

    https://youtu.be/k3M7p3hmVNM

  273. @Barbarossa
    @Ivashka the fool

    Does Fanged Noumena make more or less sense than the Amazon listing, out of curiosity? The editorial reviews were worth reading in and of themselves for such gems as,


    Theory as cyberpunk fiction: Land's machinic theory-poetry parallelled the digital intensities of 90s jungle, techno, and doomcore, anticipating “impending human extinction becoming accessible as a dancefloor.”
     
    Ha!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The book is crazy, but it made a complete sense for me.

    Possibly it was because as a young adult I have read the Two Roads to the Same Cliff by Igor Shafarevich, so I was already primed to believe that both Communism and Capitalism, if pushed to their extremes, would potentially lead to human extinction.

    It was basically a sociological and ideological discussion of the X Risks and a critique of the Technosphere development.

    Land just wrote something similar in a more twisted and humorous manner.

    (Perhaps he had also read Shafarevich, cause he started his academic career as somewhat of a neomarxist and he is also quite interested in mathematics, Shafarevich being both a vocal critic of marxism in the 80ies and an outstanding mathematician, Land might have heard of him. Just guessing…)

    BTW, if you would want a sample of the book here’s a videoclip of one of the novels:

    And given it’s sheer “craziness”, here’s one of its sentences discussed in a more normative and comprehensible manner:

  274. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Yes the video above is quite representative. I think this is due to kids seeing that many among their parents generation are overtly materialistic and hedonistic. Propaganda can pretend otherwise, but many kids are not fooled by propaganda. They grow up somewhat despising the society they have been born in.

    They don't read newspapers, they don't watch TV, their outlook is based on the echo chambers they find themselves on the web, which is where they mostly interact with other kids all around the world. The gaming communities they are part of (especially boys, girls are less into this), are often quite politically incorrect. It's a place where they can vent up their frustrations and forget their anxieties. Memes are rapidly generated and exchanged on a large scale. And many (perhaps most) of these memes bear a negative outlook and a destructive "charge" towards today's society.

    https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/a8b269d66e8609ed2938c93ceb59d22f.jpg

    Kids still have the impression that they don't have much influence on the social system, but once they grow up, and if someone provides a focal point to their frustration, then turbulent times would be the inevitable outcome. Basically, we might end up with a Cultural Revolution meets Perestroika situation.

    I would rather avoid that. In my life I have had enough "interesting times" already.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    In most times, the society’s winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society’s losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution.

    However, Western society today has a larger share of “winners” than any previous post-agriculture society.

    Also, the Western capitalist society has at least slightly correlated talent and success (it’s not a sufficient meritocracy, but there are at least some parts of it). So, on average, talented people are more sharing as society’s winners and untalented people are more society’s losers.

    A higher proportion of the adequate or talented people are integrated in the corporate economy and having not exactly an uncomfortable life, or very motivating for revolution. Many of the adequate people are in the office and have higher than normal comfortable life, often very good opportunities for career.

    While the people who criticize the current order, are more trending to the untalented side on average, or they can have higher than average social disagreeability (e.g. Elon Musk has more social disagreeability than Bill Gates).

    This is why the current criticism of the current Western society often has a lot of “loser atmosphere”, and it’s attracting more of people with psychological problems, unsuccessful people, or high social disagreebility. This might not be a very revolutionary condition.

    Remember, the revolutionary condition, times like late 18th century France, where the most economically powerful part of the society was excluded from the political decisions. Or the later 19th century, when the most educated parts of population could be often excluded from jobs.

    In the 19th century, there were often normal, adequate people, who were excluded from jobs that match their skills, while the 21st century Western society is able to integrate most of the adequate population, so companies actually cannot find sufficient workers for many higher levels.

    Revolutions also require organization, but the current people against the system is selecting people with higher sociability (i.e. people who do not have teamwork).

    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.
     
    Current Western societies seem to be the fruit of a number of social/cultural revolutions; the sexual revolution, feminism and the emancipation of women, the abandonment of religion and secularisation, decolonisation and the developing demographic revolution.

    They are all fairly recent or still underway. I think you can see in each case the revolution has been quite successful, and its beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies. These may also only really exist in a nascent state at this point, I think they are what Bashi was pointing to.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow, @Dmitry

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry


    In most times, the society’s winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society’s losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution
     
    .

    Most revolutionary's come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class - where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more "boutique" concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want "meaning". In fact, the Palestinians can give us an excellent clue about the true sources of revolutionary sentiment anywhere in the world, which are obviously not material deprivation (the Palestinians are quite well off materially).

    Rather, it might be something like "respect", or "self esteem" - or better yet, "meaning". The Palestinians would have ceased their violence long ago if all they wanted was comfort and prosperity - that they have.

    Yahya above gives another clue - to end the conflict, he doesn't talk of improving material conditions, but of Jews becoming Arabs: it is an issue of self-esteem, pride, will to power.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

    And this is what has always been dangerous.

    The other source of revolutionary sentiment in the West are among those who find the system provides no "meaning" - and this is a growing sentiment.

    (Meaning and self esteem are closely related but not quite identical concepts).

    Replies: @A123

  275. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Thanks. I should have prefaced my statement that I don't lock my doors by also stating that I have dogs on my property. They are just loose, which is the advantage to living kind of in the middle of nowhere. Nice dogs, but they are good watch dogs and certainly would take more decisive action if anyone was trying to hurt us. I hear the dogs bark at any car that is coming down my dirt road at least a 1/4 mile before I ever hear the car.

    As far as cars go, I do lock my doors in a city but never in the local areas. Fortunately, I don't find that my mid 90's to 2000 (but rust free from the South!) vehicles are much of a carjacking temptation!

    I do think that there is a psychological component to it as well. I really like living in an area where I don't feel like I have to lock my doors. I would have to put myself in a much more suspicious/ guarded mindset when I'm around my own home and local towns to actually bother locking my doors, which feels like a big loss and mental shift. If I locked all my doors would I be contributing just a bit to making my area the kind of place that requires me to lock my doors? If me and all my neighbors changed our mindsets that way, how would that subtlety change our attitudes and interactions with each other?

    Maybe it seems crazy and foolish, but it's how I roll and it's served me well so far, so I guess I can't mess with success!

    Replies: @songbird

    I hear the dogs bark at any car that is coming down my dirt road at least a 1/4 mile before I ever hear the car.

    Country dogs don’t always make the transition to the suburbs well, even if you have a nice-sized lot. I have known such to bark at people walking down the next street over, or loud cars going down the next street over.

    [MORE]

    The country really is a dog’s paradise.

    But I think I do notice something of a decline in attitudes around the subject of unleashed dogs in the country. I’d say it is a kind of wokeism, due to some people who aren’t from the country settling there.

    Fortunately, I don’t find that my mid 90’s to 2000 (but rust free from the South!) vehicles are much of a carjacking temptation!

    Sometimes, you need to wear goggles, if you get under an old car that’s been around up here. Makes you wonder why they aren’t made out of stainless steel.

    Speaking of unlocked car doors, I once knew someone who was supposed to meet a fellow back in the parking lot, after going to some store. After waiting for a while, the fellow asks, where is he? And he gets out of his truck and starts looking around, sees the other guy sitting in someone else’s rusty old truck. What is notable is that he had a new truck.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  276. @Yahya
    @LatW


    I admire Israel.
     
    So after spending this whole time lambasting Greasy for ideological inconsistency; waxing lyrical about the “tragedy Ukrainians” are going through; the injustice of having their land being annexed by Russia; the catastrophic depopulation; the massacres being perpetrated; and the need for everyone to support Ukrainian territorial integrity; you then turn around in the very same comment, and praise what is in effect a smaller, more successful version of Russia in the Middle East - once again.

    Either you are willfully ignorant or just a drooling racist who applies a different set of racial standards as to whom is deserving of sympathy. Your previous comments unfortunately imply the latter. But just in case you are the former; I recommend the scholars Benny Morris and Norman Finkelstein on the Israel-Palestine subject. Both are Jewish, but the former is an avowed Zionist and the latter pro-Palestinain. Finkelstein is a left-winger who focuses almost exclusively on the justice aspect of the conflict; which basically leads him to the inevitable conclusion that Israel is a criminal state, and his biases are anti-Zionist accordingly.

    Morris on the other hand has openly endorsed the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Zionists on Palestinians as being necessary to found a Jewish state. He is an honest scholar though and his books are as objective as you can come on this heated subject, though they do slightly favor the Zionist outlook. He was among the first Israeli scholars to acknowledge that the expulsion of Palestinians wasn’t “voluntary”; as is typical of Israeli mythology; but was for the most part a deliberate, violent attempt by the Israeli state to clear the Muslim and Christian inhabitants out of the land - something they achieved with an 80% success rate (Morris regrets that Zionist leadership weren’t able to “finish the job” on the 20% of Arabs now living within Israel). He also describes in detail the manifold Machiavellian tactics employed by Israeli forces to terrorize Palestinian civilians; such as the Deir Yassin massacre and the Qibya massacre. In his books you’ll also find the annexationist plans of Israeli leadership from both the right and left; some of which have already been implemented; and others of which are currently ongoing attempts to annex even more Palestinian land (I’m sure you’ve heard of the settlements).

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @LatW, @Dmitry

    Yayha last week I wrote an interesting (if I say this about my own comment) reply for your comment about dates, Israel, Syria, etc. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5789420

    But it was lost in the spam filter. I’ll add it here

    [MORE]

    t I do recall how spacious and beautiful it seemed; especially in comparison to Cairo

    Since already the 1990s, I think Syria was the poorest country in the Middle East after Yemen, in the per capita terms, especially in the agricultural area which has problems with draughts. Perhaps relative to Egypt or Jordan there was not so much per capita difference. But they are also next to relatively more developed Lebanon, Israel and Turkey.

    I haven’t visited Damascus, for my eyes from the internet, it reminds a lot of Egypt, in terms of the age of the cars? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQPxNTvcrM.) There is the influence of the French city planning. But there is indication of lack of municipal planning, as the traffic not organized for pedestrians.

    st looking at photos of Jaffa/Yafo

    I don’t like Jaffa, although obviously it was historically important. I read an interesting article from a writer from Jaffa though which describes the social situation there. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/22/1

    My friend actually lives just on the South of the street discussed in the article. It’s funny how famous this is, for what is a very small feeling, not so developed village atmosphere place.

    economically depressed in comparison to the bustling Tel Aviv behind it

    Tel Aviv is not so “bustling” like a city, but has a shabby, village atmosphere. Both in the poor area and the middle class area, it’s like a group of overlapping villages. The atmosphere never feels like even a medium city, in my opinion. Even with a highway and some tall office buildings next to it, but theme is like the village (or beach village).

    It’s perhaps because the Jewish culture prioritizes the village atmosphere, where everyone knows each other. Practically, the religious Jews (although that’s not in this area) cannot live in buildings with more than 3-4 levels, if they don’t want to climb on Shabbat. Historically in Europe at least, Jews were also not allowed to exit the villages until the 19th century. The great cities of Rome and Paris are very distant.

    If you compare Tel Aviv and Beirut. Beirut is standard 6 level building, while Tel Aviv is 3-level building. So, Beirut is obviously not really “Paris of the Middle East”, but at least it looks like a city, unlike a village.

    Also Tel Aviv culture loves the shabby appearances, while Beirut culture likes the shiny appearance. Beirut is full of BMW and Mercedes, while Tel Aviv is full of Hyundai and Kia.

    The main street of Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings. The population is middle class, but the people like to wear pajamas in the street.

    Whereas outer Beirut in the inner it is 6 level buildings. And Beirut has more of the BMWs.

    dates along with Arabic or Turkish coffee.

    As the traditional Arab food is very healthy. As even traditional food in Russia.

    ame place to visit for tourism. It’s almost comical how little we have in history that is of interest to anyone

    It depends on your interest. For example, if you are fan of American culture, the lame village in the center of “flyover country”, will be more interesting than Times Square.

    But Saudi are maybe careful to not market their culture too much, even they like to anti-market their culture so they won’t be disturbed. After all, it could be very popular culture exports with Western conservatives – Saduai Arabia is one of the world’s countries still with traditional politics and culture. AP and AaronB both should going to Saudi Arabia to explore the romance of the feudal structure.

    They’re mixed up with the Muslim population.

    As you know more than I, minorities in the Middle East, will usually follow the politics of the majority people in the village, as they still have some communal consensus in their culture. In Northern Israel, the Muslim-Christian villages are usually combined so they are basically Muslims and Christians like single community in terms of their voting strategy. Many of the Christians will be voting for “Ra’am”, which is Islamist (although last year informally supporting the government of Lapid/Bennet, which undermined their popularity with the Jewish religious public which saw this as indication of betrayal). Druze villages are separate, so they follow their independent politics and their voting patterns are unpredictable.

    Northern Israel is visually attractive and you need to explore with the car. But there is a lot of the lack of infrastructure (also very lack of police) in the periphery of Israel.

    Although it’s not all specific for the Arabs villages (lack of police can be), but also many of even of the Jewish villages and cities in the periphery have lack of infrastructure and investment, shabby buildings that will collapse. If you drive to Kiryat Shmona and Tiberias, the city feels like any postsoviet decline. Nick Johnson could film a series there and he will say it looks like the West Virginia of the Middle East.

    It’s not exactly poor (people have new clothes, foreign vacations), but there is lack of investment and attention.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings
     
    Although watching, I was thinking the square is an example of quite organized (for Middle Eastern standards) road safety and traffic slowing. It would be better pedestrianized, but at least they have slowed traffic. And such, boring things like traffic safety is more important than anything of politics, ethnicity, religion etc.

    Engineering is important things which improve life, while the others are more like magical words and hypnosis that distract people from solving their problems.

    -


    As for the cultures which don't care about the clothes and appearances (i.e. the generally a bit more anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, or many third world societies), it has both the positive and negative side.

    In Italian culture, people prioritize more about clothes and appearance. The culture encourages to follow fashion and to look attractive. It causes on average many Italian people look good and tourists are often impressed by the Italian beauty. Women's magazines around the world, will sell article called "how to look like an Italian woman". Italy is seen as a symbol of glamor and this likely helps to increase the expansion of its local fashion industry, to conquer new markets, or recycle petrol dollars selling Chinese products with Italian family names.

    But then there is negative side as well for the people living under the oppression of a more aesthetic society like Italy. The stress of wearing expensive clothes while eating spaghetti. The social pressure to look in the mirror before they go out. Girlfriend's that care about boyfriend's shoes.

    While in an anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, many people don't care about appearance, except from the religious perspective. There is acceptable to wear random clothes without following fashion. You can choose clothes in random color and arrangement you feel. Clothing is more to show if you are religious or secular, or religious nationalist, Haredi or Muslim. If you choose the clothes that indicated your religious identity, you don't have to worry so much about its appearance after that.

    In the anti-aesthetic culture, people can look more shabby on average and tourists can be not impressed by the aesthetics, but there is freedom to go to the office with pajamas, and less probability people care about stains on your clothes. When culture lowers standards for aesthetics, then there is more freedom to wear a random t-shirt you found under the washing machine. You look bad, but looking bad without judgement can be a pleasant freedom.

    What about in Soviet times, women didn't shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society? It's bad for the shaving industry. But how many hours of their life women can save by not caring about shaving body hair (it's a lot of hours in the year). In this form, the women had more freedom in the social sense, as women were not "oppressed" with the requirement of shaving.

    Although, it's not so open to a balance of pluses and minuses in every area, as there can be objective limits from nature for some of these questions. For example, with body weight. When you live in the society with higher levels of obesity, like Southern states of the USA, you might feel more social freedom to eat what they want. People don't need to care about their appearance here, but there are objective things from nature like the heart attack that doesn't care about neither your freedom to eat hamburgers or your appearance.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  277. @Gerard1234
    @Greasy William


    Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot’s of Ukrainians won’t win Russia the war
     
    Wow. WTF? Did your Rabbi molest you as a kid? Don't get me mistaken - every one of your comments is silly about what is probably one of the most one-sided, dominant wars in history - but that section of your comment is particularly stupid.

    Mobilisation rate in the Great Patriotic war was about 7% you dummy. Total war. Highest-intensity conflict. USSR having probably one of its highest rates ever of available young adults to conscript because of the population explosion in the mid-1920's after USSR fully consolidated........and despite all that necessity and appropriate conditions - mobilisation rate could not exceed 7%.

    Ukronazis are getting incinerated at extremely high rates by our heavily outnumbered heroes in a very localised conflict of, overall in comparison to GPW, medium intensity . This after 6 waves of mobilisation. Any imbecile can see where this is going.

    To me its clear that "Ukraine"/fuckheadistan has less than 20 million people living in this decrepit failed state since the war....not much better than 25 milllion just before SMO. But if you take the figure of 25 million, than that's 11 million men (much lower death rates of women than men in ex USSR, so not assuming 12.5M). Extremely low birth rates of kids this millenium in 404 would show maybe 2 million of them are boys, 3 million of them pension-age men. You could argue up to a million men of working adult age are simply physically and or mentally unfit to perform military duties. That's 5 million men who could be mobilised . I could just add a few thousand and put 10% component of women in to make it 6 million soldiers. 7% mobilised of the 25 million is 1.7 million. You can add police, border guard and others as out of that 1.7 million, although probably should include Ukropgvardia - but the numbers will still be closer to 1.7M than to 2Million.

    You could argue that the usual factors restraining maximum numbers on the frontline - the need for people working to keep the country to keep running, the need for wartime industrial capacities and businesses to be maximimised so as to support the war effort and make any military action possible.....is neutered by 404's long-time self-destroyed, and SMO destroyed industries anyway, already dead economy .....which correspondingly is neutered by the whole open-border military-supply capacity from NATO via EU states that can't be targeted (unlike Hitlers massive industrial capacity with most of continental Europe area producing for it - which at least could be targeted at source) .....and all the women and children who are out of the country which all in turn help maximise the number of male soldiers. But that argument would be wrong.

    A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million is currently chemically transferring into good fertiliser already. A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million ( max potential) is currently permanently crippled despite the best efforts of german hospitals. A huge proportion will be unable or unwilling to fight against professional soldiers . IF the aim of ours is to liberate all Novorossiyan territories, then a still big proportion of the 1.7 million could never ever be transferred from Kiev/ North or Galicia to fight in the South and East.
    Bullet wounds are a fraction in comparison to wounds from heavy artillery in the SMO- incredibly more than in any arena of WW2, Vietnam, Korea etc - all of which favours continued disproportionate ukronazi casualties in comparison to ours.

    Stop regurgitating anglo-american subhuman propaganda you clown. Any sane person can see this is going very well

    Replies: @Beckow, @Leaves No Shadow

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves – by any count – about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years – plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    This will not end because Kiev runs out of manpower. One of two things will happen in 23:
    – Ukie morale breaks and large enough numbers refuse to fight
    – Russia escalates to massive destruction of Ukie infrastructure, logistics, even big cities.

    Russia obviously prefers the first one. The whole point of Nato effort is to prevent morale collapse with the ‘Ukies are winning‘ propaganda, weapons, visits, etc… they also still faintly hope for Russia’s internal collapse (very unlikely).

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about? Who would enforce any settlement? How long before it would restart? After 2014-22, Russia will not settle for a ‘deal’, they would have to be defeated.

    The situation is not that complex: Ukies are resisting, kicking and biting furiously as Nato cheers on from the sidelines. Russia wants to minimize the bites and still retains residual unwillingness to simply smash the Ukies. Each bite makes it less likely that Russia could walk away. The Nato cheerleaders have written off Kiev, they just enjoy the show and hope that Russia gets bloodied. Or that the war can be called off at some point with something remaining of Ukieland as ‘anti-Russia’ for the next round.

    Everyone other than Russia has thrown all they have to the war. It looks like Russia will try one more ‘morale collapse‘ in the next few months. If Ukies refuse to give in, we will get the Nato-style ‘shock-and-awe’ to finish the job. Westerners, who mostly live with their heads in the sand will be ‘shocked’ that wars are fought that way and will refuse to acknowledge that they did it many times themselves…but that won’t matter much.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Beckow


    It looks like Russia will try one more ‘morale collapse‘ in the next few months.
     
    This peculiar and very effective method of ‘morale collapse‘ by "regrouping" from Kiev, Sumy, Chernigov, Kharkov and Kherson was very enjoyable last year;)

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about?
     
    They have had prisoner exchanges and notices that important shipping with no military function is on the water at such a time and place. Your categorical claim is false. : )
    , @Gerard1234
    @Beckow


    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves – by any count – about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years – plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.
     
    Hi there. I go on the assumption that its highly probable Ukronazis have lost 500k-700k dead or injured already. The 7% was stated as the maximum level they could achieve, but in reality I doubt they have the infrastructure and industrial capacity, economy or population demographics to even reach 4-5% getting mobilised...... much like India if it ever got into a state of total war with China , would struggle to mobilise even 2% into their army for several years.
    I will repeat that these levels of casualties are immense for a war that is semi-localised, and by comparison to other wars - of medium intensity . So your word of "rate" will become even more exponential then it is now to 404 in a true state of total war with mass strategic bombing campaign and Russia placing anywhere near the number of forces we assumed they would at the start of the SMO, instead of the minimal number they have since the start - the linear comparison won't work.
    Closer to 0% than to 10% of ukropmothers already in Europe will allow there 17, 18 year old etc son to go back Im sure

    Well this is interesting but I do believe the decision from the EU to allow free-movement of Ukrainians at the very start of the war, which effectively meant every woman and child could go

    Replies: @Beckow

  278. @Dmitry
    @Yahya

    Yayha last week I wrote an interesting (if I say this about my own comment) reply for your comment about dates, Israel, Syria, etc. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5789420

    But it was lost in the spam filter. I'll add it here


    t I do recall how spacious and beautiful it seemed; especially in comparison to Cairo
     
    Since already the 1990s, I think Syria was the poorest country in the Middle East after Yemen, in the per capita terms, especially in the agricultural area which has problems with draughts. Perhaps relative to Egypt or Jordan there was not so much per capita difference. But they are also next to relatively more developed Lebanon, Israel and Turkey.

    I haven't visited Damascus, for my eyes from the internet, it reminds a lot of Egypt, in terms of the age of the cars? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPQPxNTvcrM.) There is the influence of the French city planning. But there is indication of lack of municipal planning, as the traffic not organized for pedestrians.


    st looking at photos of Jaffa/Yafo

     

    I don't like Jaffa, although obviously it was historically important. I read an interesting article from a writer from Jaffa though which describes the social situation there. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/22/1

    My friend actually lives just on the South of the street discussed in the article. It's funny how famous this is, for what is a very small feeling, not so developed village atmosphere place.


    economically depressed in comparison to the bustling Tel Aviv behind it
     
    Tel Aviv is not so "bustling" like a city, but has a shabby, village atmosphere. Both in the poor area and the middle class area, it's like a group of overlapping villages. The atmosphere never feels like even a medium city, in my opinion. Even with a highway and some tall office buildings next to it, but theme is like the village (or beach village).

    It's perhaps because the Jewish culture prioritizes the village atmosphere, where everyone knows each other. Practically, the religious Jews (although that's not in this area) cannot live in buildings with more than 3-4 levels, if they don't want to climb on Shabbat. Historically in Europe at least, Jews were also not allowed to exit the villages until the 19th century. The great cities of Rome and Paris are very distant.

    If you compare Tel Aviv and Beirut. Beirut is standard 6 level building, while Tel Aviv is 3-level building. So, Beirut is obviously not really "Paris of the Middle East", but at least it looks like a city, unlike a village.

    Also Tel Aviv culture loves the shabby appearances, while Beirut culture likes the shiny appearance. Beirut is full of BMW and Mercedes, while Tel Aviv is full of Hyundai and Kia.

    The main street of Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings. The population is middle class, but the people like to wear pajamas in the street.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRn3oQZt5I

    Whereas outer Beirut in the inner it is 6 level buildings. And Beirut has more of the BMWs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoX89rZQDs


    dates along with Arabic or Turkish coffee.

     

    As the traditional Arab food is very healthy. As even traditional food in Russia.

    ame place to visit for tourism. It’s almost comical how little we have in history that is of interest to anyone
     
    It depends on your interest. For example, if you are fan of American culture, the lame village in the center of "flyover country", will be more interesting than Times Square.

    But Saudi are maybe careful to not market their culture too much, even they like to anti-market their culture so they won't be disturbed. After all, it could be very popular culture exports with Western conservatives - Saduai Arabia is one of the world's countries still with traditional politics and culture. AP and AaronB both should going to Saudi Arabia to explore the romance of the feudal structure.


    They’re mixed up with the Muslim population.

     

    As you know more than I, minorities in the Middle East, will usually follow the politics of the majority people in the village, as they still have some communal consensus in their culture. In Northern Israel, the Muslim-Christian villages are usually combined so they are basically Muslims and Christians like single community in terms of their voting strategy. Many of the Christians will be voting for "Ra'am", which is Islamist (although last year informally supporting the government of Lapid/Bennet, which undermined their popularity with the Jewish religious public which saw this as indication of betrayal). Druze villages are separate, so they follow their independent politics and their voting patterns are unpredictable.

    Northern Israel is visually attractive and you need to explore with the car. But there is a lot of the lack of infrastructure (also very lack of police) in the periphery of Israel.

    Although it's not all specific for the Arabs villages (lack of police can be), but also many of even of the Jewish villages and cities in the periphery have lack of infrastructure and investment, shabby buildings that will collapse. If you drive to Kiryat Shmona and Tiberias, the city feels like any postsoviet decline. Nick Johnson could film a series there and he will say it looks like the West Virginia of the Middle East.

    It's not exactly poor (people have new clothes, foreign vacations), but there is lack of investment and attention.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings

    Although watching, I was thinking the square is an example of quite organized (for Middle Eastern standards) road safety and traffic slowing. It would be better pedestrianized, but at least they have slowed traffic. And such, boring things like traffic safety is more important than anything of politics, ethnicity, religion etc.

    Engineering is important things which improve life, while the others are more like magical words and hypnosis that distract people from solving their problems.

    As for the cultures which don’t care about the clothes and appearances (i.e. the generally a bit more anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, or many third world societies), it has both the positive and negative side.

    In Italian culture, people prioritize more about clothes and appearance. The culture encourages to follow fashion and to look attractive. It causes on average many Italian people look good and tourists are often impressed by the Italian beauty. Women’s magazines around the world, will sell article called “how to look like an Italian woman”. Italy is seen as a symbol of glamor and this likely helps to increase the expansion of its local fashion industry, to conquer new markets, or recycle petrol dollars selling Chinese products with Italian family names.

    But then there is negative side as well for the people living under the oppression of a more aesthetic society like Italy. The stress of wearing expensive clothes while eating spaghetti. The social pressure to look in the mirror before they go out. Girlfriend’s that care about boyfriend’s shoes.

    While in an anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, many people don’t care about appearance, except from the religious perspective. There is acceptable to wear random clothes without following fashion. You can choose clothes in random color and arrangement you feel. Clothing is more to show if you are religious or secular, or religious nationalist, Haredi or Muslim. If you choose the clothes that indicated your religious identity, you don’t have to worry so much about its appearance after that.

    In the anti-aesthetic culture, people can look more shabby on average and tourists can be not impressed by the aesthetics, but there is freedom to go to the office with pajamas, and less probability people care about stains on your clothes. When culture lowers standards for aesthetics, then there is more freedom to wear a random t-shirt you found under the washing machine. You look bad, but looking bad without judgement can be a pleasant freedom.

    What about in Soviet times, women didn’t shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society? It’s bad for the shaving industry. But how many hours of their life women can save by not caring about shaving body hair (it’s a lot of hours in the year). In this form, the women had more freedom in the social sense, as women were not “oppressed” with the requirement of shaving.

    Although, it’s not so open to a balance of pluses and minuses in every area, as there can be objective limits from nature for some of these questions. For example, with body weight. When you live in the society with higher levels of obesity, like Southern states of the USA, you might feel more social freedom to eat what they want. People don’t need to care about their appearance here, but there are objective things from nature like the heart attack that doesn’t care about neither your freedom to eat hamburgers or your appearance.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Dmitry


    What about in Soviet times, women didn’t shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society?
     
    Yes it was
    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry

    Growing up my whole life in a society that doesn't care about personal aesthetics, I absorbed the background notion that it is "superficial" to do so - that it is a "pleasant freedom" to simply not care about personal appearance, and I was faintly derisive of the "Eurotrash" that did.

    I now think that concern over personal aesthetics is a deep spiritual marker with ramifications for every aspect of society. Think about it - Italians don't only care about personal aesthetics, they care about aesthetics in food, in architecture, in life. And Americans don't just not care about personal appearance, they have a culture of dull utilitarianism and efficiency.

    In other words - one cares about beauty or one does not, one cares about poetry or one does not - in all of life.

    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of "respectability" (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.

    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries - a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it's influence into all areas of life.

    We need poetry and beauty in our life - and it is a moral imperative, believe it or not.

    Finally, I wouldn't say Israelis are completely unconcerned with personal aesthetics - Tel Aviv is notorious for good looking men and women, and one sees large numbers of men who've made the effort to chisel their bodies, and style their hair etc. There is a certain interest in physical beauty there, although it's certainly a casual style, and slovenliness is also widely accepted.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Another Polish Perspective

  279. @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings
     
    Although watching, I was thinking the square is an example of quite organized (for Middle Eastern standards) road safety and traffic slowing. It would be better pedestrianized, but at least they have slowed traffic. And such, boring things like traffic safety is more important than anything of politics, ethnicity, religion etc.

    Engineering is important things which improve life, while the others are more like magical words and hypnosis that distract people from solving their problems.

    -


    As for the cultures which don't care about the clothes and appearances (i.e. the generally a bit more anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, or many third world societies), it has both the positive and negative side.

    In Italian culture, people prioritize more about clothes and appearance. The culture encourages to follow fashion and to look attractive. It causes on average many Italian people look good and tourists are often impressed by the Italian beauty. Women's magazines around the world, will sell article called "how to look like an Italian woman". Italy is seen as a symbol of glamor and this likely helps to increase the expansion of its local fashion industry, to conquer new markets, or recycle petrol dollars selling Chinese products with Italian family names.

    But then there is negative side as well for the people living under the oppression of a more aesthetic society like Italy. The stress of wearing expensive clothes while eating spaghetti. The social pressure to look in the mirror before they go out. Girlfriend's that care about boyfriend's shoes.

    While in an anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, many people don't care about appearance, except from the religious perspective. There is acceptable to wear random clothes without following fashion. You can choose clothes in random color and arrangement you feel. Clothing is more to show if you are religious or secular, or religious nationalist, Haredi or Muslim. If you choose the clothes that indicated your religious identity, you don't have to worry so much about its appearance after that.

    In the anti-aesthetic culture, people can look more shabby on average and tourists can be not impressed by the aesthetics, but there is freedom to go to the office with pajamas, and less probability people care about stains on your clothes. When culture lowers standards for aesthetics, then there is more freedom to wear a random t-shirt you found under the washing machine. You look bad, but looking bad without judgement can be a pleasant freedom.

    What about in Soviet times, women didn't shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society? It's bad for the shaving industry. But how many hours of their life women can save by not caring about shaving body hair (it's a lot of hours in the year). In this form, the women had more freedom in the social sense, as women were not "oppressed" with the requirement of shaving.

    Although, it's not so open to a balance of pluses and minuses in every area, as there can be objective limits from nature for some of these questions. For example, with body weight. When you live in the society with higher levels of obesity, like Southern states of the USA, you might feel more social freedom to eat what they want. People don't need to care about their appearance here, but there are objective things from nature like the heart attack that doesn't care about neither your freedom to eat hamburgers or your appearance.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What about in Soviet times, women didn’t shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society?

    Yes it was

  280. According to the PEW poll, there is now more partisan difference in America about support for Ukraine, with Republicans becoming more opposed than Democrats.

    In March 2022, there was not much partisan divide.

    But in January 2023, now 40% of Republicans believe the USA are giving too much aid to Ukraine. Only 15% of Democrats believe the USA is giving too much aid to Ukraine.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Dmitry


    But in January 2023, now 40% of Republicans believe the USA are giving too much aid to Ukraine. Only 15% of Democrats believe the USA is giving too much aid to Ukraine.
     
    The Republican tally becomes more interesting when all 4 categories are shown:

    19 -- No answer/Do not know/Do not care
    40 -- Cut
    24 -- Same
    17 -- Increase

    59% want cuts or do not care. Only 41% have interest in the current scheme. Additional polling would be needed to find out how many of the 41% would prioritize Ukraine over domestic issues. My feel from being around other Republicans is that there is a high count for "inch deep" support. Strong interest is simply not there.

    This is the voter base for House majority that writes appropriations. The amount of money for Kiev is going to come down. Plus, it will include audits and other controls.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  281. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Always good reading you LatW. Agree with most of what you wrote including that there are things that beyond the pale of internet discussions.


    Right, but in that case it can be viewed simply as a sort of anarchism.
     
    Before one could rebuild, one must destroy. Perhaps we are just entering the stage of an inevitable societal decay. We'll see in the coming decades.

    Replies: @LatW

    Before one could rebuild, one must destroy.

    A little bit like The Three Metamorphoses in Nietzsche’s Zarathustra – the camel, the lion and finally the child.

    [MORE]

    By the way, you know who I think was a bit accelerationist? Tesak.

    Another one that sort of stands out and comes to mind is Maxim Bazylev (from НСО). Quite a tragic story actually. But all this activity was clamped down by 2007-2008.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  282. @Ivashka the fool
    @Barbarossa

    Kevin McDonald was writing from the point of view of biological psychology, which he saw as a result of different human populations' adaptation to different environments. Basically a psychological take on HBD.

    The ton of letters that Aaron has unloaded on the poor man has nearly nothing to do with his academic work. But hey, that's the way most Jews react to what they see as criticism of their mindset.

    As I wrote previously, Aaron is simply unable to leave his inner Qahal rest despite his humanistic, transcendental, mystical grandstanding. A guy can talk hours about Zen and Dao and then suddenly exhibit an extreme bias when his ethnic identity is presented in an unflattering manner.

    Happens to the best of us...

    🙂



    That being said, The Culture of Critique by K. McDonald is the American equivalent of Russophobia by Igor Shafarevich. Except that Russophobia was written a decade before Culture of Critique. Another notable difference is that Shafarevich was writing post factum after the destruction of the "classic Russian society" by the (Judeo)Bolshevik Revolution, while McDonald was writing during the process of disintegration of the "classic American society" by the critical theory (hence the title).

    He was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite.

    After the publication of his books, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth form the usual corners...

    A good and useful read.

    🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @S

    Actually, I was defending European civilization from McDonald, not Jews 🙂

    McDonald erases the grand spiritual journey of Europe that culminated in nihilism – and is of world-historical importance – in favor of biology.

    So I was also defending “Spirit” over the usual insipid materialism.

    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don’t care for Western European civilization – it’s not your “genetic lineage” or “oikumene” – but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it’s one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy – to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.

    Well, it would be if McDonald wasn’t largely ignored.

    McDonald once wrote that Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson – who wrote about learning spiritual lessons from India and were critical of Establishment America in it’s soulless materialism – were utterly puzzling outliers who “turned against their people” for some unknown biological reason.

    Evidently he hadn’t heard of the massive cultural critical movement of Romanticism who they were a part of.

    You can’t make this stuff up. And McDonald wonders why his “thesis” doesn’t pass the threshold of engagement from scholars of intellectual history.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don’t care for Western European civilization – it’s not your “genetic lineage” or “oikumene” – but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it’s one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy – to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.
     
    You don’t understand. Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don't shit where I eat. Western society has given me a lot, much more than I deserve. If I stayed in RusFed I would have probably ended very badly - a violent sociopath hurting people for different idiotic reasons. In the West I studied, created interesting projects, had a family and my beloved kids. I want the West to thrive and be healthy. This is the place where my kids are growing and it's their homeland. I also want Russia to become liberated from the RusFed bad trip and get back to what is best about it. And there is a lot of good in Russian people, they just had it rough for a very long time. You will get my point if and when you will have kids of your own. Stop being a wandering Jew and settle down ! 🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard

  283. @Beckow
    @Gerard1234

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves - by any count - about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years - plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    This will not end because Kiev runs out of manpower. One of two things will happen in 23:
    - Ukie morale breaks and large enough numbers refuse to fight
    - Russia escalates to massive destruction of Ukie infrastructure, logistics, even big cities.

    Russia obviously prefers the first one. The whole point of Nato effort is to prevent morale collapse with the 'Ukies are winning' propaganda, weapons, visits, etc... they also still faintly hope for Russia's internal collapse (very unlikely).

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about? Who would enforce any settlement? How long before it would restart? After 2014-22, Russia will not settle for a 'deal', they would have to be defeated.

    The situation is not that complex: Ukies are resisting, kicking and biting furiously as Nato cheers on from the sidelines. Russia wants to minimize the bites and still retains residual unwillingness to simply smash the Ukies. Each bite makes it less likely that Russia could walk away. The Nato cheerleaders have written off Kiev, they just enjoy the show and hope that Russia gets bloodied. Or that the war can be called off at some point with something remaining of Ukieland as 'anti-Russia' for the next round.

    Everyone other than Russia has thrown all they have to the war. It looks like Russia will try one more 'morale collapse' in the next few months. If Ukies refuse to give in, we will get the Nato-style 'shock-and-awe' to finish the job. Westerners, who mostly live with their heads in the sand will be 'shocked' that wars are fought that way and will refuse to acknowledge that they did it many times themselves...but that won't matter much.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    It looks like Russia will try one more ‘morale collapse‘ in the next few months.

    This peculiar and very effective method of ‘morale collapse‘ by “regrouping” from Kiev, Sumy, Chernigov, Kharkov and Kherson was very enjoyable last year;)

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @sudden death


    ...‘morale collapse‘ by “regrouping” from Kiev...
     
    A perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees...

    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn't happen. That doesn't mean that it won't happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.

    You should hope it happens. The alternative of catastrophic infrastructure-city bombing ala Nato methods is worse. Or you can hope that Russia collapses first, what are the odds?

    Replies: @sudden death

  284. @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    Tel Aviv (i.e. Times Square of New York), is like the village atmosphere, with the shabby buildings
     
    Although watching, I was thinking the square is an example of quite organized (for Middle Eastern standards) road safety and traffic slowing. It would be better pedestrianized, but at least they have slowed traffic. And such, boring things like traffic safety is more important than anything of politics, ethnicity, religion etc.

    Engineering is important things which improve life, while the others are more like magical words and hypnosis that distract people from solving their problems.

    -


    As for the cultures which don't care about the clothes and appearances (i.e. the generally a bit more anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, or many third world societies), it has both the positive and negative side.

    In Italian culture, people prioritize more about clothes and appearance. The culture encourages to follow fashion and to look attractive. It causes on average many Italian people look good and tourists are often impressed by the Italian beauty. Women's magazines around the world, will sell article called "how to look like an Italian woman". Italy is seen as a symbol of glamor and this likely helps to increase the expansion of its local fashion industry, to conquer new markets, or recycle petrol dollars selling Chinese products with Italian family names.

    But then there is negative side as well for the people living under the oppression of a more aesthetic society like Italy. The stress of wearing expensive clothes while eating spaghetti. The social pressure to look in the mirror before they go out. Girlfriend's that care about boyfriend's shoes.

    While in an anti-aesthetic culture like Israel, many people don't care about appearance, except from the religious perspective. There is acceptable to wear random clothes without following fashion. You can choose clothes in random color and arrangement you feel. Clothing is more to show if you are religious or secular, or religious nationalist, Haredi or Muslim. If you choose the clothes that indicated your religious identity, you don't have to worry so much about its appearance after that.

    In the anti-aesthetic culture, people can look more shabby on average and tourists can be not impressed by the aesthetics, but there is freedom to go to the office with pajamas, and less probability people care about stains on your clothes. When culture lowers standards for aesthetics, then there is more freedom to wear a random t-shirt you found under the washing machine. You look bad, but looking bad without judgement can be a pleasant freedom.

    What about in Soviet times, women didn't shave their body hair. Was this bad thing compared to the capitalist society? It's bad for the shaving industry. But how many hours of their life women can save by not caring about shaving body hair (it's a lot of hours in the year). In this form, the women had more freedom in the social sense, as women were not "oppressed" with the requirement of shaving.

    Although, it's not so open to a balance of pluses and minuses in every area, as there can be objective limits from nature for some of these questions. For example, with body weight. When you live in the society with higher levels of obesity, like Southern states of the USA, you might feel more social freedom to eat what they want. People don't need to care about their appearance here, but there are objective things from nature like the heart attack that doesn't care about neither your freedom to eat hamburgers or your appearance.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Growing up my whole life in a society that doesn’t care about personal aesthetics, I absorbed the background notion that it is “superficial” to do so – that it is a “pleasant freedom” to simply not care about personal appearance, and I was faintly derisive of the “Eurotrash” that did.

    I now think that concern over personal aesthetics is a deep spiritual marker with ramifications for every aspect of society. Think about it – Italians don’t only care about personal aesthetics, they care about aesthetics in food, in architecture, in life. And Americans don’t just not care about personal appearance, they have a culture of dull utilitarianism and efficiency.

    In other words – one cares about beauty or one does not, one cares about poetry or one does not – in all of life.

    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of “respectability” (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.

    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries – a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it’s influence into all areas of life.

    We need poetry and beauty in our life – and it is a moral imperative, believe it or not.

    Finally, I wouldn’t say Israelis are completely unconcerned with personal aesthetics – Tel Aviv is notorious for good looking men and women, and one sees large numbers of men who’ve made the effort to chisel their bodies, and style their hair etc. There is a certain interest in physical beauty there, although it’s certainly a casual style, and slovenliness is also widely accepted.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries – a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it’s influence into all areas of life.
     
    LOL

    Have you ever been to any major east Asian city?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of “respectability” (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.
     
    Poetry is free expression of one's feelings in words. Poetry is not more popular in Italy than it other countries. Fashion is a social phenomenon which expresses mainly the aesthetics sense of fashion designers... fashion at the consumer level is about sense of social pressure (which is high there, according to Italians I talked with).
    Should that be untrue, Italians would wear a wide range of outdated fashions, which may be old but aesthetic as well. But they don't, thus what is not followed is not fashionable; ergo - aesthetics is secondary in fashion.

    In fact, true fashion (in the sense of personal sense of aesthetics like poetry is) at the individual level is perhaps more possible in easy-going countries. Example - this woman reinvented 19th century fashion in UK:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/jan/18/moment-that-changed-me-i-began-wearing-skirts-with-pockets-big-enough-to-hold-wine-bottle


    What I didn’t expect was for so much else to change. I get stared at a lot but I don’t feel self-conscious; rather, I’m more confident than ever. My skirts make me memorable. Strangers stop to talk to me, and each conversation becomes an opportunity to connect and learn.
     
    HMS, you have something about appearances...look inside more! I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face - according to you - was to express some depth or something. Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  285. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    , a sophisticated version of the typical optimism of the 90’ties in the form of faith in technology,
     
    Yes, he was so optimistic about the outcome of the technological progress that his most notable book is literally titled Fanged Noumena.

    Fanged Noumena: Collected Writings 1987-2007 https://g.co/kgs/KnC2Vr

    It was so optimistic about the future of technology that it helped me cure myself from transhumanism when I read it shortly after its publication.

    And Nick Land is neither truly a philosopher, nor obscure. His style is just not to everyone’s tastes.



    https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/1622285741505089539

    That's his Twitter.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180213122613/http://www.xenosystems.net/

    That was his blog.

    https://zerophilosophy.substack.com/

    This is his substack.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Another Polish Perspective

    I did not say that Land was optimistic, just that 90’ties were optimistic. This optimism about the inevitability of technical progress evolved into faith into technological singularity and transhumanism, which couldn’t (or shouldn’t) be stopped anymore, reducing human control over the entire process – that again was kind of pessimistic or “dark” for many. As I said, I heard about Land (in positive terms) not from Mencius Goldbug but from Steve Fuller (interesting author but more conventional than Land), who is a convinced and optimistic transhumanist.

    Accelerationism is a range of Marxist and reactionary ideas in critical and social theory that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change and other social processes in order to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformation, otherwise known as “acceleration”.[

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    Nevertheless, it is reasonable to say that Nick Land rose out of that spirit of the ’90ties. Even his research was conducted within Cybernetic Culture Research Unit – the name says it all.
    And yes, he was originally a philosopher who became a cultural theorist. Apparently, at Warwick philosophers transform into someone else – Fuller became a sociologist of knowledge.

    Isn’t Land obscure..? Well, he has fans but is not widely known outside certain circles, I would say. Maybe in Russia he would be liked more – all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Also, Nick Land wouldn't have moved to Shanghai if he hadn't been somehow positive about or interested in "acceleration". He did not go there to fight it.
    At least this is what I heard: that he wanted to closely observe "accelerating in action", which apparently was taking place there in the fastest way - out of all places on Earth.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Maybe in Russia he would be liked more – all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.
     
    There is no salvation at all in Land's writings. He comes to the conclusion that we are doomed as a species. Just doomed and basically cannot do anything about it. The only way to survive would be to stop technological progress and for that we would need dismantling Capitalism itself because in Landian thought capital and technology are interlinked. BTW, I have just realized that the Davos Man's brain (i.e. Herr Shwab's think-tank that claims being a World Forum about Economy) must have probably read Land. That would explain a lot.

    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed, don't write about it. Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it's disgraceful. Write about the Judeo-Christian stuff that you are an expert in. A friendly advice.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Nick Land in a nutshell.

    Brilliant guy. Uneven writer. If you are going to let loose on a word processor when your brain is polluted with methamphetamine you need a competent editor. Absolute requirement and he skipped it too many times.

    The accelerationists gave us two all time quips nobody will ever forget.

    I. The end of the world is easier to imagine than the end of capitalism.

    II. We are all fascists now and for the the entire foreseeable future.

    No doubt they stole these somewhere but they made them real. Zizek, the world's most famous Slovenian now that Mrs. Trump has disappeared, has stolen all his best stuff from the accelerationists for years. So it's all good, see?

    In a culture that wasn't limping along Land definitely would not be teaching English in Shanghai. That is a pity.

  286. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry

    Growing up my whole life in a society that doesn't care about personal aesthetics, I absorbed the background notion that it is "superficial" to do so - that it is a "pleasant freedom" to simply not care about personal appearance, and I was faintly derisive of the "Eurotrash" that did.

    I now think that concern over personal aesthetics is a deep spiritual marker with ramifications for every aspect of society. Think about it - Italians don't only care about personal aesthetics, they care about aesthetics in food, in architecture, in life. And Americans don't just not care about personal appearance, they have a culture of dull utilitarianism and efficiency.

    In other words - one cares about beauty or one does not, one cares about poetry or one does not - in all of life.

    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of "respectability" (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.

    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries - a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it's influence into all areas of life.

    We need poetry and beauty in our life - and it is a moral imperative, believe it or not.

    Finally, I wouldn't say Israelis are completely unconcerned with personal aesthetics - Tel Aviv is notorious for good looking men and women, and one sees large numbers of men who've made the effort to chisel their bodies, and style their hair etc. There is a certain interest in physical beauty there, although it's certainly a casual style, and slovenliness is also widely accepted.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Another Polish Perspective

    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries – a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it’s influence into all areas of life.

    LOL

    Have you ever been to any major east Asian city?

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Yevardian

    East Asians are basically insects or made from spare dinosaur parts.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  287. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    In most times, the society's winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society's losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution.

    However, Western society today has a larger share of "winners" than any previous post-agriculture society.

    Also, the Western capitalist society has at least slightly correlated talent and success (it's not a sufficient meritocracy, but there are at least some parts of it). So, on average, talented people are more sharing as society's winners and untalented people are more society's losers.

    A higher proportion of the adequate or talented people are integrated in the corporate economy and having not exactly an uncomfortable life, or very motivating for revolution. Many of the adequate people are in the office and have higher than normal comfortable life, often very good opportunities for career.

    While the people who criticize the current order, are more trending to the untalented side on average, or they can have higher than average social disagreeability (e.g. Elon Musk has more social disagreeability than Bill Gates).

    This is why the current criticism of the current Western society often has a lot of "loser atmosphere", and it's attracting more of people with psychological problems, unsuccessful people, or high social disagreebility. This might not be a very revolutionary condition.

    Remember, the revolutionary condition, times like late 18th century France, where the most economically powerful part of the society was excluded from the political decisions. Or the later 19th century, when the most educated parts of population could be often excluded from jobs.

    In the 19th century, there were often normal, adequate people, who were excluded from jobs that match their skills, while the 21st century Western society is able to integrate most of the adequate population, so companies actually cannot find sufficient workers for many higher levels.

    Revolutions also require organization, but the current people against the system is selecting people with higher sociability (i.e. people who do not have teamwork).

    With the kind of opposition that is today, it's possible the current system has quite a strong "immune system".

    Replies: @Coconuts, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.

    Current Western societies seem to be the fruit of a number of social/cultural revolutions; the sexual revolution, feminism and the emancipation of women, the abandonment of religion and secularisation, decolonisation and the developing demographic revolution.

    They are all fairly recent or still underway. I think you can see in each case the revolution has been quite successful, and its beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies. These may also only really exist in a nascent state at this point, I think they are what Bashi was pointing to.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    @ Dmitry, if you read my comment carefully, you will see three things 1) I was writing about the time of adulthood of my own kids. That is the next two generations. 2) I was worried about what might (or quite likely would) happen 3) It is not about Revolution that I wrote but about societal collapse of major proportions. The type of situation that William Gibson has sarcastically termed The Jackpot in his latest series of books.

    My reply to Coconuts (whose comments I always appreciate and read very carefully) was initially motivated by the question our friend Bromance of three kingdoms (whose comments I also usually take very seriously) has asked LatW (another of my favorite commenters). I guess that is the necessary background for understanding what I wrote about, the comments about NRx and Ned Land included.

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion. Speaking of which, where's Sylvio ? Didn't see him commenting lately.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @S

    , @Beckow
    @Coconuts

    Western societies have been in a state of 'loosening' all constraints since roughly the 18th century...the enlightenment continues to spread.

    It is a very tempting process, gradual abandonment, there is a quasi-existential, short-term quality about it. We seem to be close to the end-point, but I am not sure...

    The final result is the people embracing the liberation process will not biologically survive - they are not meant to, they want to go to a better place, a place with universal justice and equity, a place with lots of fun and few family-tribal responsibilities.

    That will never be on earth. The collapse will probably throw us back intellectually, but what choice do we have? The inevitable side consequence will be that the societies - no matter how otherwise advanced - taken over by the uber-liberal end-of-liners will drop in importance. That mostly means the West and as it happens it will be volatile...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Western societies.. social/cultural revolutions;
     
    Where the "social/cultural", means not real revolution, but changing of external packaging.

    I would say the Western society is the derivation of the late 18th century revolution, where later revolution has been defeated.

    But this included successful political engineering, as the later revolutionary opportunity is slowly reduced by increasing the quantity of power and comfort and selectively feeding to people below. Eventually you are recruiting the stronger parts of the revolutionary classes to the bourgeoisie. An example, like Sweden or Norway, where everyone is nowadays middle class, it's like communism, but bourgeoisie not the proletariat are the winners.

    So, Tupac, before he was killed 1996, says "they are not ready for a black president" (in the revolutionary song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfF8jMN-2CM. which has the phrases like "instead of war on poverty, they got a war on drugs"). But in 2009, there is already a black president.

    However, it is not a "black president" as Tupac would write, but the middle class lawyer, who represents only the life of middle class comfort in the gated community, and would not threat the rulers with a "war on poverty" (Obama is not even Bernie Sanders) that the "black president" (i.e. someone from the revolutionary class) was supposed to include.


    beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies
     
    Even slight meritocracy as today, implies beneficiaries are correlated to people with the higher "human capital" in the middle class career perspective. But because the wealth and comfort is so large in the Western economies, there is a situation where most of the adequate population have high material comfort. It's often a situation where there are more good jobs than people to recruit. That's people are complaining in some industries, that unemployment is "too low".

    Current system is selecting for the revolutionary population of inadequate people (from career perspective), people with high disagreeability (which prevents teamwork, that is necessary for revolution) etc, while stealing the stronger people for its own class. This post-Washington or post-Bastille society, seems like a very clever recycling machine, that converts its enemies to waste products.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  288. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry

    Growing up my whole life in a society that doesn't care about personal aesthetics, I absorbed the background notion that it is "superficial" to do so - that it is a "pleasant freedom" to simply not care about personal appearance, and I was faintly derisive of the "Eurotrash" that did.

    I now think that concern over personal aesthetics is a deep spiritual marker with ramifications for every aspect of society. Think about it - Italians don't only care about personal aesthetics, they care about aesthetics in food, in architecture, in life. And Americans don't just not care about personal appearance, they have a culture of dull utilitarianism and efficiency.

    In other words - one cares about beauty or one does not, one cares about poetry or one does not - in all of life.

    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of "respectability" (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.

    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries - a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it's influence into all areas of life.

    We need poetry and beauty in our life - and it is a moral imperative, believe it or not.

    Finally, I wouldn't say Israelis are completely unconcerned with personal aesthetics - Tel Aviv is notorious for good looking men and women, and one sees large numbers of men who've made the effort to chisel their bodies, and style their hair etc. There is a certain interest in physical beauty there, although it's certainly a casual style, and slovenliness is also widely accepted.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Another Polish Perspective

    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of “respectability” (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.

    Poetry is free expression of one’s feelings in words. Poetry is not more popular in Italy than it other countries. Fashion is a social phenomenon which expresses mainly the aesthetics sense of fashion designers… fashion at the consumer level is about sense of social pressure (which is high there, according to Italians I talked with).
    Should that be untrue, Italians would wear a wide range of outdated fashions, which may be old but aesthetic as well. But they don’t, thus what is not followed is not fashionable; ergo – aesthetics is secondary in fashion.

    In fact, true fashion (in the sense of personal sense of aesthetics like poetry is) at the individual level is perhaps more possible in easy-going countries. Example – this woman reinvented 19th century fashion in UK:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/jan/18/moment-that-changed-me-i-began-wearing-skirts-with-pockets-big-enough-to-hold-wine-bottle

    What I didn’t expect was for so much else to change. I get stared at a lot but I don’t feel self-conscious; rather, I’m more confident than ever. My skirts make me memorable. Strangers stop to talk to me, and each conversation becomes an opportunity to connect and learn.

    HMS, you have something about appearances…look inside more! I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face – according to you – was to express some depth or something. Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Poetry is free expression of one’s feelings in words
     
    Isn't that the definition of prose :)

    Poetry would be the disciplined expression of the idealistic side of life, the beautiful side of life. And it is far from limited to words. A building can be poetic or prosaic, a life can be poetic or prosaic.

    On one level, fashion is the silly side of a concern with aesthetics - it is vanity and flippancy. On another level, regular change in style is a celebration of poetic variety, an attempt to explore beauty in all it's multifariousness.

    And I am no longer sure our Western "truism" that appearance is unrelated to substance is true at all. I don't necessarily mean that genetically, like the phrenologists, but whether one is fat or thin, how one dresses and comports oneself, if one is polite or rude - these outward physical expressions are indications of ones spiritual and moral state at that time, at least (not an indication of ones "intrinsic" moral character for all eternity).

    Depressed people are famously slovenly, fat or emaciated, etc.

    I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face – according to you – was to express some depth or something.
     
    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling. Faces, as one gets older, also express character built up over a lifetime, and that has moral and aesthetic significance.

    Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.
     
    They are inseparable. In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.

    Is it any wonder that the moral decline of Western civilization coincided with it's aesthetic decline? Today, we dress bad, and we act bad.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful? But this isn't about being born beautiful - I am not particularly beautiful either.

    This is about art, and it's moral dimension. The Japanese, and Asians in general, are not genetically gifted in the beauty department. Asians are not a particularly beautiful people. But it is astonishing how pleasant they can make themselves look on the whole through art. It is a commitment to art, to poetry, and the moral dimension that reveals, that is relevant here.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  289. @Gerard1234
    @Greasy William


    Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot’s of Ukrainians won’t win Russia the war
     
    Wow. WTF? Did your Rabbi molest you as a kid? Don't get me mistaken - every one of your comments is silly about what is probably one of the most one-sided, dominant wars in history - but that section of your comment is particularly stupid.

    Mobilisation rate in the Great Patriotic war was about 7% you dummy. Total war. Highest-intensity conflict. USSR having probably one of its highest rates ever of available young adults to conscript because of the population explosion in the mid-1920's after USSR fully consolidated........and despite all that necessity and appropriate conditions - mobilisation rate could not exceed 7%.

    Ukronazis are getting incinerated at extremely high rates by our heavily outnumbered heroes in a very localised conflict of, overall in comparison to GPW, medium intensity . This after 6 waves of mobilisation. Any imbecile can see where this is going.

    To me its clear that "Ukraine"/fuckheadistan has less than 20 million people living in this decrepit failed state since the war....not much better than 25 milllion just before SMO. But if you take the figure of 25 million, than that's 11 million men (much lower death rates of women than men in ex USSR, so not assuming 12.5M). Extremely low birth rates of kids this millenium in 404 would show maybe 2 million of them are boys, 3 million of them pension-age men. You could argue up to a million men of working adult age are simply physically and or mentally unfit to perform military duties. That's 5 million men who could be mobilised . I could just add a few thousand and put 10% component of women in to make it 6 million soldiers. 7% mobilised of the 25 million is 1.7 million. You can add police, border guard and others as out of that 1.7 million, although probably should include Ukropgvardia - but the numbers will still be closer to 1.7M than to 2Million.

    You could argue that the usual factors restraining maximum numbers on the frontline - the need for people working to keep the country to keep running, the need for wartime industrial capacities and businesses to be maximimised so as to support the war effort and make any military action possible.....is neutered by 404's long-time self-destroyed, and SMO destroyed industries anyway, already dead economy .....which correspondingly is neutered by the whole open-border military-supply capacity from NATO via EU states that can't be targeted (unlike Hitlers massive industrial capacity with most of continental Europe area producing for it - which at least could be targeted at source) .....and all the women and children who are out of the country which all in turn help maximise the number of male soldiers. But that argument would be wrong.

    A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million is currently chemically transferring into good fertiliser already. A HUGE proportion of this 1.7 million ( max potential) is currently permanently crippled despite the best efforts of german hospitals. A huge proportion will be unable or unwilling to fight against professional soldiers . IF the aim of ours is to liberate all Novorossiyan territories, then a still big proportion of the 1.7 million could never ever be transferred from Kiev/ North or Galicia to fight in the South and East.
    Bullet wounds are a fraction in comparison to wounds from heavy artillery in the SMO- incredibly more than in any arena of WW2, Vietnam, Korea etc - all of which favours continued disproportionate ukronazi casualties in comparison to ours.

    Stop regurgitating anglo-american subhuman propaganda you clown. Any sane person can see this is going very well

    Replies: @Beckow, @Leaves No Shadow

    I will be unsurprised if we find out that Ukraine has sustained fewer than 30,000 military deaths in the entire year of warfare.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    That would be around 100/day...still a lot.

    Most estimates go above 100k, as high as 200k. The EU lady said 'over 100k' two months ago (did she misspoke?) In relatively small Subcarpathia the local estimates are over 10k dead (whole brigades wiped out) and the suspicion is that Kiev used Hungarian-Rusyn men as cannon-fodder, so they had disproportionate losses.

    We don't know, everybody lies, but it is more likely above 100k than 30k...why does it matter? is there an acceptable number?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You are referring to deaths by soldiers committing suicide only right? Surely the 30k is not referring to deaths from the entire conflict!!!?? Or suicides + ukronazi regime reprisals then faked as "Russian atrocities" against "cyborgs"?

    Ideally at least 10k American and Canadian scum will perish from STD's by the Ukrainian whores provided to them this year . I know for a fact that , sadly , any anglo-american scumbag, fighting or not, who has got to Kiev, Lvov in particular or anywhere else ......is getting worshipped by several "ukrainian" women willing to do any position for them. A very, very sick society in 404.

  290. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    In most times, the society's winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society's losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution.

    However, Western society today has a larger share of "winners" than any previous post-agriculture society.

    Also, the Western capitalist society has at least slightly correlated talent and success (it's not a sufficient meritocracy, but there are at least some parts of it). So, on average, talented people are more sharing as society's winners and untalented people are more society's losers.

    A higher proportion of the adequate or talented people are integrated in the corporate economy and having not exactly an uncomfortable life, or very motivating for revolution. Many of the adequate people are in the office and have higher than normal comfortable life, often very good opportunities for career.

    While the people who criticize the current order, are more trending to the untalented side on average, or they can have higher than average social disagreeability (e.g. Elon Musk has more social disagreeability than Bill Gates).

    This is why the current criticism of the current Western society often has a lot of "loser atmosphere", and it's attracting more of people with psychological problems, unsuccessful people, or high social disagreebility. This might not be a very revolutionary condition.

    Remember, the revolutionary condition, times like late 18th century France, where the most economically powerful part of the society was excluded from the political decisions. Or the later 19th century, when the most educated parts of population could be often excluded from jobs.

    In the 19th century, there were often normal, adequate people, who were excluded from jobs that match their skills, while the 21st century Western society is able to integrate most of the adequate population, so companies actually cannot find sufficient workers for many higher levels.

    Revolutions also require organization, but the current people against the system is selecting people with higher sociability (i.e. people who do not have teamwork).

    With the kind of opposition that is today, it's possible the current system has quite a strong "immune system".

    Replies: @Coconuts, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    In most times, the society’s winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society’s losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution

    .

    Most revolutionary’s come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class – where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more “boutique” concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want “meaning”. In fact, the Palestinians can give us an excellent clue about the true sources of revolutionary sentiment anywhere in the world, which are obviously not material deprivation (the Palestinians are quite well off materially).

    Rather, it might be something like “respect”, or “self esteem” – or better yet, “meaning”. The Palestinians would have ceased their violence long ago if all they wanted was comfort and prosperity – that they have.

    Yahya above gives another clue – to end the conflict, he doesn’t talk of improving material conditions, but of Jews becoming Arabs: it is an issue of self-esteem, pride, will to power.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

    And this is what has always been dangerous.

    The other source of revolutionary sentiment in the West are among those who find the system provides no “meaning” – and this is a growing sentiment.

    (Meaning and self esteem are closely related but not quite identical concepts).

    • Replies: @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Most revolutionary’s come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class – where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more “boutique” concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.
     
    You can definitely observe this in Iran and east Asia where relatively privileged university students are heavily engaged in potential revolutions. Children of the officer corps are in the mixture, which places front line police/troops in a terrible bind.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want “meaning”.
     
    Sorry. Largely incorrect. Let me illustrate:

    In Muslim occupied Gaza much of the problem comes from the cycle of "Bread & Circuses". The underclass are not capable of work, get bread from the UNRWA dole, and then look for circuses to last them until the next handout. Futile riots & demonstrations are ways to idly fill time. Ultimately, it results in active avoidance of anything with meaning or purpose.

    The Hamas officials in Gaza are not revolutionaries. They are the establishment middle class types. The organizers want to make sure that the idle poor do not come after the true source of the problem. Instead they manipulate the malcontents to do stupid and self destructive things, such as marching on a secure border. Ultimately, this will backfire on the Muslim abusers who are keeping their coreligionists down.

    Fatah deception and self enrichment in the west Bank has similar themes and methods. The concept of revolution has been co-opted by the establishment. The fundamentally fake non-revolution keeps current Muslim leadership in power and mammon.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

     

    This might not fit well for the U.S. Which revolution are you talking about?

    SJW and Antifa revolutionaries that have become the establishment fit this concept. However, the action wing does not grasp that the revolution is over and they have won. Or, if you prefer, the revolutionaries are now in the "turning on each other" stage that follows many uprisings.

    MAGA is effectively a broad based counter revolutionary movement with lower, middle, and even some upper class support. An elite revolutionary minority obtained power and screwed things up. The desire for jobs and MAGA Reindustrialization is much better grounded than fringe ideologues.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  291. @sudden death
    @Beckow


    It looks like Russia will try one more ‘morale collapse‘ in the next few months.
     
    This peculiar and very effective method of ‘morale collapse‘ by "regrouping" from Kiev, Sumy, Chernigov, Kharkov and Kherson was very enjoyable last year;)

    Replies: @Beckow

    …‘morale collapse‘ by “regrouping” from Kiev…

    A perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees…

    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.

    You should hope it happens. The alternative of catastrophic infrastructure-city bombing ala Nato methods is worse. Or you can hope that Russia collapses first, what are the odds?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Beckow


    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.
     
    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  292. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.

    For instance, some not very intelligent people think the Chinese elites don't import foreigners because they are loyal to their ethnic kin. In fact, the Chinese working population is perhaps the most docile, cowed, and hardest working in the world. Consequently, they are ruthlessly exploited to enrich their elite - there is no need to import foreigners.

    I guarantee you, if in the West Whites were willing to work the Chinese 9am-9pm, 6 days a week, with weak to nonexistent protections and rights, showing extreme deference to an elite that drives around in flashy cars, parties with beautiful girls, and lives in grand mansions, then Western elites would show "ethnic loyalty".

    In the West, the average man and woman demands a level of respect, safety, and a standard of living that makes him sadly rather unattractive to an elite. This is a problem that was noted beginning in the 19th century.

    At that time, it was beginning to be noted by many commentators for instance that the Chinese can significantly "underlive" White people, who demanded a much higher standard of living, and that this was the chief Chinese advantage as workers - he'd live in appalling conditions, accept a paltry wage, was docile and acquiescent, and work long hours.

    Likewise in the Muslim world, you have an extremely wealthy elite and an exploited, impoverished, and oppressed population on a scale inconceivable in the West - this isn't "preserving the population", this is an elite enriching itself as best it can. Look at Yahya to get a sense of the sheer contempt this wealthy elite feels for it's population and the importance it places on money as a marker of status.

    Moreover, Muslim lands are not economically dynamic or attractive to outsiders, so it's hard to say what the elite would do if there was demand to immigrate and it benefited them (actually, not that hard :) )

    You may point to the Gulf Arabs as countries where exceptions to the above rule - but these are countries whose wealth depends entirely on technical expertise that the natives cannot supply. In other words, the entire native population cannot compete with outsiders whose expertise is absolutely crucial to their wealth. So if they allowed immigration on an equal basis, the elites would quickly be dominated and supplanted and a new foreign elite arise, that could easily form an alliance with the workers if they treated them better. In this scenario, it makes most sense for the elites to actually be somewhat generous to the population and form a united front.

    So I think you right wingers who see "ethnic loyalty" and don't understand the power dynamics of these countries are rather touchingly naive :)

    If you look at countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, even Egypt, and you see "health" - I don't know what to say, really. I think you'd have to be an authoritarian or someone with exploitative elite tendencies themselves to see something worth emulating here.

    All that being said, I'm sure there are some good things about the Muslim world today that we can learn from.

    @ Ivashka - that's a rather limited, reductionist view. Everyone has biases and attachments, and this is precisely what can lead to energetic and interesting conversations full of vitality. "Motivated reasoning" often leads to much more acute insights than "objective" reasoning.

    Moreover, people with no involvement in the region often have stronger biases and attachments on the subject than any Jew or Muslim, so I'm not sure your ethnic reductionism really makes sense :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.

    I think the premise here needs more development because it seems to read like a claim that a population’s preservation or survival is a form of exploitation. Maybe this is similar to arguments used by some feminists that women’s desire to have children is a form of false-consciousness caused by internalised patriarchy?

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    No, it's just that an elite that isn't replacing it's population with foreigners is not necessarily loyal to them, and the culture may not be spiritually healthy, but the particular conditions of that country may make exploiting the existing population the best option.

    So perhaps, one must look at - preserving the population+ not exploiting them + do conditions favor importing foreigners, to assess whether a culture is spiritually healthy.

    Looking at the first is far from sufficient.

  293. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.
     
    Current Western societies seem to be the fruit of a number of social/cultural revolutions; the sexual revolution, feminism and the emancipation of women, the abandonment of religion and secularisation, decolonisation and the developing demographic revolution.

    They are all fairly recent or still underway. I think you can see in each case the revolution has been quite successful, and its beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies. These may also only really exist in a nascent state at this point, I think they are what Bashi was pointing to.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow, @Dmitry

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    @ Dmitry, if you read my comment carefully, you will see three things 1) I was writing about the time of adulthood of my own kids. That is the next two generations. 2) I was worried about what might (or quite likely would) happen 3) It is not about Revolution that I wrote but about societal collapse of major proportions. The type of situation that William Gibson has sarcastically termed The Jackpot in his latest series of books.

    My reply to Coconuts (whose comments I always appreciate and read very carefully) was initially motivated by the question our friend Bromance of three kingdoms (whose comments I also usually take very seriously) has asked LatW (another of my favorite commenters). I guess that is the necessary background for understanding what I wrote about, the comments about NRx and Ned Land included.

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion. Speaking of which, where’s Sylvio ? Didn’t see him commenting lately.

    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion.

     

    Ok, I'll bite, though I'm not sure how 'interesting' or 'valuable' my opinion might be.



    First, though I describe here what I see their intentions to be, and I do think mankind as a whole is in some pretty dire straits, it doesn't neccessarily translate that they will succeed in their aims. It's not over until the fat lady sings and the best laid plans of mice and men and all that. And people should find some way of resisting, ideally succesfully. [I don't think either Trump, or Putin, whom I both see as controlled opposition, is the way to go however.]

    Second, I think there's plenty of responsibility (as opposed to 'blame') to share between peoples for the present sad state of things, though, to be sure, some do probably have less responsibility. A Filipino Tagalog tribesman and his power elites certainly have a lot less responsibility than certain other peoples and their power elites for instance.

    I think, broadly, it's a case of too many poorly leading (though powerful) elites and their hangers on, and too many people either following or tolerating them. It's not necessarily a majority of 'elites' and 'common' folks involved in the nefarious activities in either instance.

    As a matter of principle, and my post archives will bear this out if a person wishes to check, if my own non-Jewish north-western Euro people, or a people I am close to in origin, are involved significantly in something, and though not even necessarily the majority involved, I'll mention them first. This has a way of putting a break to unhealthily, and disempoweringly, blaming other(s) for everything.

    I was raised in the United States.

    Having said that, I think the world was already largely conquered at the latest by about 1900 when the United States and United Kingdom formed their 'special relationship', a relationship only just short of an outright political union.

    Since that time, the US/UK has been expanding upon this power and consolidating it via the two world wars, and the current nascent WWIII, 'mopping up' as the Anglosphere elites likely see it.

    As background to these events, I believe that possibly as early as circa 1770 that the Capitalist vs Communist, Right vs Left, etc dialectic was conceived in the minds of men within the City of London, this man-made and broadly controlled dialectic being first put into action in the 1776 proto-Capitalist American and 1789 proto-Communist French revolutions, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and probably Benjamin Franklin, having been quite involved in laying the groundwork for both events.

    I believe it was also about 1770, the Seven Years War having concluded very favorably for Britain, and the whole of North America effectively now laying 'open for the taking', that, as empires in general are wont to do, a simultaneous decision was made in London to make a final push by the British Empire for the obtainment of total world power.

    The 1776 American Revolution I believe represented a strategic false split between the United States and the British Empire, so that Britain would avoid the Spanish Empire's experience of attracting the unwanted hostile attentions of competing European nations which were forever attempting to block Spain's efforts to consolidate and expand upon it's power, as Spain was perceived as being 'too big to be allowed to succeed'.

    Once the 'former colonists' had 'on the sly' and 'out of the spotlight' succesfully consolidated the 'game changer' of the rich North American heartland, ie they had succesfully driven the French and Spanish out, 'subdued' the Indians, and 'settled' it, as planned the US and UK would reunite, and present to a shocked and surprised world the fait accompli of a practically unbeatable world conquering united front.

    After the three world wars, and the destruction of the bulk of remaining peoplehood in the world, and the City of London directed Capitalist vs Communist dialectic has run it's course and synthesized to form Global Multi-Culturalism, the intended five hundred million surviving men and women will live under a theoretical global democratic republic as citizens of a global super-state called the 'United States of the World' (aka the 'New Rome'), which is to have a central US/UK political axis. In accordance with the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism, an Anglo-Saxon will rule as Prime Minister/President from the World Union capital in Jerusalem, and Anglo-Saxons as 'Chosen' in general will (naturally!) form something of a ruling elite/strata over the rest of humanity, 'the worker being worthy of his wages' they tell themselves.

    Let me say here, as I've said before, I am not for this. I believe empires in general are a bad business. I do think what I've described, along with some playing by ear by the powers that be (ie the world wars, and the five hundred million global population goal) was the basic plan from the start circa 1770.

    Plans often go astray, however, and this plan would seem no different. Chattel slavery and it's trade rather than having been abolished was in reality monetized in the early 19th century with the introduction to the world by the British Empire of wage slavery (ie specifically, the incredibly destructive so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system), the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state. Thus, Anglo-Saxon elites and hangers on have largely 'thrown under the bus' many of their own people, including ultimately themselves in time.

    Unlike Anglo-Saxon 'British Israelites', Israelis who actually really are Jewish might have a problem with the idea of an Anglo-Saxon ruling the world from a throne in Jerusalem. According to Jewish believers interpretations of their scriptures, I suspect they would believe any such person would minimally have to be really Jewish.

    As with the Anglo-Saxons and their wage slavery, powerful elements amongst the Jewish elites and their hangers on would also seem to have some problematical ideas about slavery (ie every Jewish person to have a certain number of non-Jew slaves at some point in the future.)

    My suspicion is that in WWIII Africa will not be targeted with nukes, and that 'purely by chance' the vast majority of the Earth's five hundred million survivors will be relatively pure blooded sub-Saharan Africans with their dominant genes and 70 something IQ's.

    The sick obsession many so called 'progressives' have with breeding Euro's and sub-Saharan Africans together could then come into play and afterva few geproduce a hybridized mostly Black population with an average IQ of 75, intelligent enough to understand simple commands but not much more, a perfect slave population.

    As recently heard, though with a slight addendum:

    'You will have nothing, and you will work for nothing, and you will be happy.'

    So, as for myself in regards to the United States of the World, the 'cure', including the possible intended slaughter of billions in a world war, is far worse than the present disease.

    So, thanks, but no thanks.

    What to do?

    Offer up something better!

    How about for starters a true abolition of slavery, ie no chattel or wage slavery, that is no more of the so called cheap labor/mass immigration system?
    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.
     
    The Alizée video from earlier reminded me of this. I find it evocative of the period in the early 2000s when I was younger and our political discussions might have been more about the artificiality and low standards of mass entertainment products than race and socialism. Personally I was maybe wondering whether the hedonistic attitudes were too strong and would cause some future social problems (I had been reading Houellebecq), but the mood felt clearly different to now, more relaxed and optimistic.

    I recall having some premonition of existential doom for a couple of years in my early 20s, at the time I thought it was to do with an important relationship ending, student lifestyle, things I had been reading or had to study. Looking back now possibly it was because there were already hints of where things might be going longer term. I had to read some early queer theory stuff for a course and got the feeling that stuff was going to take over culture at some point.

    I tend to understand what we are seeing now as a combination of technological change, where more power is concentrated in fewer hands, the related transhumanist tendencies, major demographic shifts (as you were pointing out with the growth in the Muslim populations) and the coming to maturity in the West of the cultural trends that first started emerging in the 60s. This would be feminism, the sexual revolution, the counter-culture and decolonisation and so on.

    I think some people were maybe thinking about the implications of technological change (Nick Land and Warwick University's cybernetics research unit have been mentioned). In the UK I don't remember anyone mainstream thinking of the implications of serious demographic change, I suspect discussing the ethnic aspects would have been a relatively taboo subject.

    For a long time things were still being run by actual 1950s boomers and people born before the end of WW2, I see them as having been influenced by an earlier culture in ways that limited the impact of the 1960s cultural trends. Whereas what we are seeing now are generations much more immersed and shaped by them coming to the forefront.

    This studio version of Moi Lolita has 134 million views:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfXBNQMj2SE

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading.

     

    Probably like yourself, I've found it useful to understand the cosmologies of the various peoples involved to get a better grasp of things.

    One important element of the cosmology of the Anglo-Saxons of the Anglosphere is the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism, ie the absurd belief that the people of the British Isles were of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. In the US I've never known of anyone personally to have believed in it, yet clearly there has been an historic influence.



    Below is a brief excerpt and link to an outstanding study of the belief system:

    '...many British-Israelites viewed the Second World War as just a precursor to a war with the Soviet Union which would usher in the Second Coming of Christ and the Millennium.

    http://www.revneal.org/Writings/Writings/british.htm

    Another element of US cosmology is ancient Rome.

    The United States since it's inception has consciously modeled itself upon Rome, ie land carefully chosen to construct Washington DC upon had generations before originally been called 'Rome', complete with it's own Tiber running through it. Many US public buildings are Roman in their design.

    Uncannily, US history itself has point by point closely paralleled that of the original Rome.

    At present, just as Rome transitioned from a Republic to a dictatorship, so too is the United States, and just as Rome had its First Triumvirate consisting of Rome's richest man, the Roman billionaire and real estate speculator Marcus Crassus, the Roman military veteran Pompey, and Crassus's political protege, the up and coming Julius Caesar, the 'New Rome' (the US) has Donald Trump, Pompeo, and Trump's political protege, Jared Kushner.

    In the link below, I explore in depth the close parallels of Rome's First Triumvirate with today's Trump, Pompeo, and Kushner. Pompeo is to announce in the next in the next few months if he is to contest with Trump for the 2024 presidential nomination. Rome's First Triumvirate ultimately devolved into civil war between its members. [Be sure and check under 'More']

    Modern First Triumvirate Parallels With the US

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-195/#comment-5525507

    The potential destruction in WWIII of the New Rome [US] and the Third Rome [Russia], the respective modern day heirs of Rome's Western and Eastern portions, as perceived revenge by elements of the Jewish people for ancient Rome's destruction of the Jewish Temple nearly 2000 years ago.

    WWIII as Revenge upon Rome Hypothesis

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-186-russia-ukraine/#comment-5312664

    The close parallels between Varus's defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the Roman standards and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions, and Custer's defeat at the Little Big Horn by 'barbarian tribes', the loss of the US Calvary 'standards' (guidons), and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/#comment-5172335

    Replies: @S

  294. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    I will be unsurprised if we find out that Ukraine has sustained fewer than 30,000 military deaths in the entire year of warfare.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

    That would be around 100/day…still a lot.

    Most estimates go above 100k, as high as 200k. The EU lady said ‘over 100k‘ two months ago (did she misspoke?) In relatively small Subcarpathia the local estimates are over 10k dead (whole brigades wiped out) and the suspicion is that Kiev used Hungarian-Rusyn men as cannon-fodder, so they had disproportionate losses.

    We don’t know, everybody lies, but it is more likely above 100k than 30k…why does it matter? is there an acceptable number?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    It is much more likely 30k than over 100k. There is 0% chance it is over 100k. It would be extremely obvious in their military performance. They would have lost cities as big as Kherson and been driven from the North East like Russia was from Kharkhiv.

    Replies: @Beckow

  295. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I did not say that Land was optimistic, just that 90'ties were optimistic. This optimism about the inevitability of technical progress evolved into faith into technological singularity and transhumanism, which couldn't (or shouldn't) be stopped anymore, reducing human control over the entire process - that again was kind of pessimistic or "dark" for many. As I said, I heard about Land (in positive terms) not from Mencius Goldbug but from Steve Fuller (interesting author but more conventional than Land), who is a convinced and optimistic transhumanist.

    Accelerationism is a range of Marxist and reactionary ideas in critical and social theory that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change and other social processes in order to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformation, otherwise known as "acceleration".[

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    Nevertheless, it is reasonable to say that Nick Land rose out of that spirit of the '90ties. Even his research was conducted within Cybernetic Culture Research Unit - the name says it all.
    And yes, he was originally a philosopher who became a cultural theorist. Apparently, at Warwick philosophers transform into someone else - Fuller became a sociologist of knowledge.

    Isn't Land obscure..? Well, he has fans but is not widely known outside certain circles, I would say. Maybe in Russia he would be liked more - all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Also, Nick Land wouldn’t have moved to Shanghai if he hadn’t been somehow positive about or interested in “acceleration”. He did not go there to fight it.
    At least this is what I heard: that he wanted to closely observe “accelerating in action”, which apparently was taking place there in the fastest way – out of all places on Earth.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Observing something doesn't mean you like it or agree with it. Also a researcher would want to be in the ideal setting for his experiment. Yes Shanghai is as close as it gets. Results of experiment: very low TFR, social credit and other unpleasantness... (Salvation... LOL)

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  296. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I did not say that Land was optimistic, just that 90'ties were optimistic. This optimism about the inevitability of technical progress evolved into faith into technological singularity and transhumanism, which couldn't (or shouldn't) be stopped anymore, reducing human control over the entire process - that again was kind of pessimistic or "dark" for many. As I said, I heard about Land (in positive terms) not from Mencius Goldbug but from Steve Fuller (interesting author but more conventional than Land), who is a convinced and optimistic transhumanist.

    Accelerationism is a range of Marxist and reactionary ideas in critical and social theory that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change and other social processes in order to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformation, otherwise known as "acceleration".[

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    Nevertheless, it is reasonable to say that Nick Land rose out of that spirit of the '90ties. Even his research was conducted within Cybernetic Culture Research Unit - the name says it all.
    And yes, he was originally a philosopher who became a cultural theorist. Apparently, at Warwick philosophers transform into someone else - Fuller became a sociologist of knowledge.

    Isn't Land obscure..? Well, he has fans but is not widely known outside certain circles, I would say. Maybe in Russia he would be liked more - all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Maybe in Russia he would be liked more – all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    There is no salvation at all in Land’s writings. He comes to the conclusion that we are doomed as a species. Just doomed and basically cannot do anything about it. The only way to survive would be to stop technological progress and for that we would need dismantling Capitalism itself because in Landian thought capital and technology are interlinked. BTW, I have just realized that the Davos Man’s brain (i.e. Herr Shwab’s think-tank that claims being a World Forum about Economy) must have probably read Land. That would explain a lot.

    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed, don’t write about it. Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it’s disgraceful. Write about the Judeo-Christian stuff that you are an expert in. A friendly advice.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed (...).Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it’s disgraceful.
     
    That is true, I don't know much about Russia. But I do know that Russia, unlike Poland, was a fertile ground for heresies and schisms, some of them quite extreme, like Chlysty. Some were Gnostic, some were Judaizing (I read that some even became later accepted in Israel as true Jews), and some I don't really know, like the Old Believers whose popularity I could never understand, since they looked kind of like followers of sedevacantism in Catholicism, who really are marginal- where does this Starowiery popularity stem from ? It couldn't be just about this Moscow patriarch they disagreed about - that would be too... flimsy (you can have another patriarch)...? Was their theology in any way original? As we can broadly divide heresies by their attitude to St Paul, gnostics saying that St Paul wasn't enough radical about Jews, and Judaizers that St Paul wasn't enough positive about Jews or maybe was wrong about them, what was the Old Believers position? Were they in any way millenarian?
    The presence of Judaizing sects in Russia clearly proves that at least some Russians were strongly concerned about their own salvation, and about this powerful Judeochristian text of NT - Revelation of St John, which doesn't rhyme well with St Paul writings.

    As for Polish prejudices against Russia - well, as some Czech said," it is nice to be in our Slavic family, but with Russia, Slavdom becomes about Russia", a position somehow reflected in that that out of all Slavic lands only Russia deemed its land & people "sacred" as in "święta Ruś/sacred Russia". Well, I heard that there is some legacy of Byzantium in that but it is kind strange that it was continued - like Russia really is commited to this translatio imperii theory of three Romes, where Moscow is the third Rome
    .
    However, taking into account the current mood in Poland, my position is really mild. For example, I am against floating ideas of demolishing Russian monuments and exhumating Russian military cemeteries in order to transfer them into less visible places. I do appreciate Russia's positive role as a bulwark against Germany for all Slavs.

    I just think that Russia was always somehow lacking in her PR towards her Slavic kin... also, AFAIK, Russia has a kind of schizophrenic nature (such is perception of Russia in Poland at least), on one hand being "Slavic', on the other hand, being a self-contained "Eurasian" civilization (yes, I read Trubetskoy). That very hampers Russia in her relations with the other Slavs, since this "Eurasianism" is often read as "Asianism", and then as "Mongolism", which I dislike since all Mongols I met were pretty nice (and anti-Chinese), and not all like past rulers or Russia. In other words, there is an abyss between positive perception of Russian Asian heritage in Russia and negative perception of this heritage in countries like Poland or Czechia.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  297. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.
     
    Current Western societies seem to be the fruit of a number of social/cultural revolutions; the sexual revolution, feminism and the emancipation of women, the abandonment of religion and secularisation, decolonisation and the developing demographic revolution.

    They are all fairly recent or still underway. I think you can see in each case the revolution has been quite successful, and its beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies. These may also only really exist in a nascent state at this point, I think they are what Bashi was pointing to.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow, @Dmitry

    Western societies have been in a state of ‘loosening‘ all constraints since roughly the 18th century…the enlightenment continues to spread.

    It is a very tempting process, gradual abandonment, there is a quasi-existential, short-term quality about it. We seem to be close to the end-point, but I am not sure…

    The final result is the people embracing the liberation process will not biologically survive – they are not meant to, they want to go to a better place, a place with universal justice and equity, a place with lots of fun and few family-tribal responsibilities.

    That will never be on earth. The collapse will probably throw us back intellectually, but what choice do we have? The inevitable side consequence will be that the societies – no matter how otherwise advanced – taken over by the uber-liberal end-of-liners will drop in importance. That mostly means the West and as it happens it will be volatile…

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    Wow Beckow, this is a good post! I disagree with it, but you're onto something.

    If people are too good to live in this existence, then they will cease to live in this existence, unless exceptionally kind. I mean you'd have to be pretty awesome to choose living here just to alleviate suffering, yes? Though physical pleasures aren't bad...even if they come with physical pains.

    Anyway, Western societies may be striving quite successfully along the path of awareness, but they have a very long way to go.

    Also, so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.

    Furthermore, what's laugh out loud, then burst into tears of misery hilarisad, is that there's nothing to stop you but yourself from achieving this, instantly. Nothing. Like all darkness, it vanishes as soon as you look at it! At least if you know how to look.

    So back to the future biological basis of Western societies.

    Continuity of genes, which define the vehicle by which you move around on this plain, is about to become a very different subject. Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring, which will mean that everyone will have less genetic continuity, eventually approaching none to baseline populations. And those who don't, will be impossibly unhealthy, stupid and unattractive compared to those who do, so they will be irrelevant.

    Yes, this does mean that we are all impossibly stupid, unhealthy and unattractive compared to humans born in 50 years. And? Is this bad, or is this wonderful? I think wonderful for them and makes no difference to me! Maybe I'll even come back then...though I have experienced a lot in this lifetime so I'll have to reflect on it

    But avoiding such diversions, what else will this mean? For one, total Aryan victory! The future babies born to the various elites around the world will look much more like me!

    I guess I chose that part of this existence well! Why wouldn't I though? No need to be a Squatemalan when I could be a Ferrari! And the parents of the future children will agree, even the Squatemalan parents.

    Tall, slim, fair-haired and blue-eyed is the genetic lottery. "White privilege" is real and it is superior corporal aesthetics. Everyone knows it, even if not all white people are fortunate enough to epitomise it.

    But isn't this all superficial? Well, yes. It doesn't say anything about your soul or even aspects of genetically mediated expression of personality, but the same applies to that. People will obviously adapt those too.

    In other words, your revenge of the darkness and unawareness metaphor...that the solipsistic will inherit the earth, because everyone else will vacate it, is interesting because it was always true on an individual level, but always will be wrong on a directional level. Your predictions of the future are 0% likely to be right. But smile, this is good news, unless you're more afraid of things going well for others than things going badly, of course!

    Babi may agree with you, but he should reflect and realise that he actually agrees with me too.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow

  298. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Also, Nick Land wouldn't have moved to Shanghai if he hadn't been somehow positive about or interested in "acceleration". He did not go there to fight it.
    At least this is what I heard: that he wanted to closely observe "accelerating in action", which apparently was taking place there in the fastest way - out of all places on Earth.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Observing something doesn’t mean you like it or agree with it. Also a researcher would want to be in the ideal setting for his experiment. Yes Shanghai is as close as it gets. Results of experiment: very low TFR, social credit and other unpleasantness… (Salvation… LOL)

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    Observing something doesn’t mean you like it or agree with it
     
    Yes, but it also does not mean that you disagree with it.

    This concise introduction to the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in

    says that

    the appeal of accelerationism is as much ancient as modern: “They are speaking in a millenarian idiom,” promising that a vague, universal change is close at hand.

    which can be read as salvation or more precisely, the process of salvation, especially remembering that some millenarists (like Joachim da Fiore) apparently claimed that some kind of God's Kingdom upon Earth will precede The Last Judgement, and that this Kingdom would be a time of radical change. Anyway, it is hard to read Nick Land as a some kind of neo-Luddite. I have never been a fan of him but from I read of him I remember him more as someone who writes about dark and unexpected sides of technological juggernaut than about the need for Bronze Age enclaves to preserve spiritual side of humanity (that would be Robert Graves in "Seven Days in New Crete"), which, I suppose, should be more to your personal taste.

    I remember this cheery techno-utopianism of the 90'ties in Poland among my friends: that was a time when Lech Walesa talked to people about building a second Japan in Poland, Japan being a symbol of techno-modernity. Well, it all ended with 9.11.2001 and the arrival of GWOT.
    However, the members of CCRU wanted something more: they wanted social change too.

    Yet there were two different visions of the future. In the US, confident, rainbow-coloured magazines such as Wired promoted what became known as “the Californian ideology”: the optimistic claim that human potential would be unlocked everywhere by digital technology. In Britain, this optimism influenced New Labour. At Warwick, however, the prophecies were darker. “One of our motives,” says Plant, “was precisely to undermine the cheery utopianism of the 90s, much of which seemed very conservative” – an old-fashioned male desire for salvation through gadgets, in her view. “We wanted a more open, convoluted, complicated world, not a shiny new order.”

    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view, but CCRU were apparently more ordo ex chao and ex inordinateo veni pecunia people; in other words, chaos pays - in many ways.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  299. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    That would be around 100/day...still a lot.

    Most estimates go above 100k, as high as 200k. The EU lady said 'over 100k' two months ago (did she misspoke?) In relatively small Subcarpathia the local estimates are over 10k dead (whole brigades wiped out) and the suspicion is that Kiev used Hungarian-Rusyn men as cannon-fodder, so they had disproportionate losses.

    We don't know, everybody lies, but it is more likely above 100k than 30k...why does it matter? is there an acceptable number?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    It is much more likely 30k than over 100k. There is 0% chance it is over 100k. It would be extremely obvious in their military performance. They would have lost cities as big as Kherson and been driven from the North East like Russia was from Kharkhiv.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...It would be extremely obvious in their military performance.
     
    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark? We also need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples - there are a large number of badly wounded, some die later, and the missing - Russians show many videos of dead Ukies, often dozens in a small place. Those are probably counted as 'missing' by Kiev...

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  300. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I am not approaching the issue from the right-wing perspective of “respectability” (wear a suit and a tie, sit up straight!), but rather of poetry. Personal aesthetics is poetry and it reflects ones whole attitude to life.
     
    Poetry is free expression of one's feelings in words. Poetry is not more popular in Italy than it other countries. Fashion is a social phenomenon which expresses mainly the aesthetics sense of fashion designers... fashion at the consumer level is about sense of social pressure (which is high there, according to Italians I talked with).
    Should that be untrue, Italians would wear a wide range of outdated fashions, which may be old but aesthetic as well. But they don't, thus what is not followed is not fashionable; ergo - aesthetics is secondary in fashion.

    In fact, true fashion (in the sense of personal sense of aesthetics like poetry is) at the individual level is perhaps more possible in easy-going countries. Example - this woman reinvented 19th century fashion in UK:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/jan/18/moment-that-changed-me-i-began-wearing-skirts-with-pockets-big-enough-to-hold-wine-bottle


    What I didn’t expect was for so much else to change. I get stared at a lot but I don’t feel self-conscious; rather, I’m more confident than ever. My skirts make me memorable. Strangers stop to talk to me, and each conversation becomes an opportunity to connect and learn.
     
    HMS, you have something about appearances...look inside more! I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face - according to you - was to express some depth or something. Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Poetry is free expression of one’s feelings in words

    Isn’t that the definition of prose 🙂

    Poetry would be the disciplined expression of the idealistic side of life, the beautiful side of life. And it is far from limited to words. A building can be poetic or prosaic, a life can be poetic or prosaic.

    On one level, fashion is the silly side of a concern with aesthetics – it is vanity and flippancy. On another level, regular change in style is a celebration of poetic variety, an attempt to explore beauty in all it’s multifariousness.

    And I am no longer sure our Western “truism” that appearance is unrelated to substance is true at all. I don’t necessarily mean that genetically, like the phrenologists, but whether one is fat or thin, how one dresses and comports oneself, if one is polite or rude – these outward physical expressions are indications of ones spiritual and moral state at that time, at least (not an indication of ones “intrinsic” moral character for all eternity).

    Depressed people are famously slovenly, fat or emaciated, etc.

    I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face – according to you – was to express some depth or something.

    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling. Faces, as one gets older, also express character built up over a lifetime, and that has moral and aesthetic significance.

    Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.

    They are inseparable. In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.

    Is it any wonder that the moral decline of Western civilization coincided with it’s aesthetic decline? Today, we dress bad, and we act bad.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful? But this isn’t about being born beautiful – I am not particularly beautiful either.

    This is about art, and it’s moral dimension. The Japanese, and Asians in general, are not genetically gifted in the beauty department. Asians are not a particularly beautiful people. But it is astonishing how pleasant they can make themselves look on the whole through art. It is a commitment to art, to poetry, and the moral dimension that reveals, that is relevant here.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling.
     
    I am mildly familiar with the history of art. Therefore I know the term licentia poetica, or broadly, the freedom granted upon artists. In my personal opinion, you can sometimes judge a nature of life someone has lived on the basis of his face, but certainly not his character. There are many counter-examples of deceiving faces too.

    In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.
     
    In Christian theology, this very Platonic view is not really emphasized (it is more on the level of abstract, ideal values) since that would potentially lead to the heresy of pantheism. Also, the only human being in whom God incarnated was Jesus Christ. Trying to find traces of God in every face would devalue Christ incarnation.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful?
     

    There are different opinion about that, however none says that I am ugly. However, I am sometimes a bit slovenly, so I don't like this dictate of "looking well" all the time- I would feel that I am trying to cheat someone, presenting to him my false nature.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  301. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    As to preserving their population, there are different ways to exploit your population. I think a much better yardstick is how exploited a population is by their elite, and the Muslim world does extremely poorly in this regard.
     
    I think the premise here needs more development because it seems to read like a claim that a population's preservation or survival is a form of exploitation. Maybe this is similar to arguments used by some feminists that women's desire to have children is a form of false-consciousness caused by internalised patriarchy?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    No, it’s just that an elite that isn’t replacing it’s population with foreigners is not necessarily loyal to them, and the culture may not be spiritually healthy, but the particular conditions of that country may make exploiting the existing population the best option.

    So perhaps, one must look at – preserving the population+ not exploiting them + do conditions favor importing foreigners, to assess whether a culture is spiritually healthy.

    Looking at the first is far from sufficient.

  302. @Beckow
    @Coconuts

    Western societies have been in a state of 'loosening' all constraints since roughly the 18th century...the enlightenment continues to spread.

    It is a very tempting process, gradual abandonment, there is a quasi-existential, short-term quality about it. We seem to be close to the end-point, but I am not sure...

    The final result is the people embracing the liberation process will not biologically survive - they are not meant to, they want to go to a better place, a place with universal justice and equity, a place with lots of fun and few family-tribal responsibilities.

    That will never be on earth. The collapse will probably throw us back intellectually, but what choice do we have? The inevitable side consequence will be that the societies - no matter how otherwise advanced - taken over by the uber-liberal end-of-liners will drop in importance. That mostly means the West and as it happens it will be volatile...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Wow Beckow, this is a good post! I disagree with it, but you’re onto something.

    If people are too good to live in this existence, then they will cease to live in this existence, unless exceptionally kind. I mean you’d have to be pretty awesome to choose living here just to alleviate suffering, yes? Though physical pleasures aren’t bad…even if they come with physical pains.

    Anyway, Western societies may be striving quite successfully along the path of awareness, but they have a very long way to go.

    Also, so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.

    Furthermore, what’s laugh out loud, then burst into tears of misery hilarisad, is that there’s nothing to stop you but yourself from achieving this, instantly. Nothing. Like all darkness, it vanishes as soon as you look at it! At least if you know how to look.

    So back to the future biological basis of Western societies.

    Continuity of genes, which define the vehicle by which you move around on this plain, is about to become a very different subject. Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring, which will mean that everyone will have less genetic continuity, eventually approaching none to baseline populations. And those who don’t, will be impossibly unhealthy, stupid and unattractive compared to those who do, so they will be irrelevant.

    Yes, this does mean that we are all impossibly stupid, unhealthy and unattractive compared to humans born in 50 years. And? Is this bad, or is this wonderful? I think wonderful for them and makes no difference to me! Maybe I’ll even come back then…though I have experienced a lot in this lifetime so I’ll have to reflect on it

    But avoiding such diversions, what else will this mean? For one, total Aryan victory! The future babies born to the various elites around the world will look much more like me!

    I guess I chose that part of this existence well! Why wouldn’t I though? No need to be a Squatemalan when I could be a Ferrari! And the parents of the future children will agree, even the Squatemalan parents.

    Tall, slim, fair-haired and blue-eyed is the genetic lottery. “White privilege” is real and it is superior corporal aesthetics. Everyone knows it, even if not all white people are fortunate enough to epitomise it.

    But isn’t this all superficial? Well, yes. It doesn’t say anything about your soul or even aspects of genetically mediated expression of personality, but the same applies to that. People will obviously adapt those too.

    In other words, your revenge of the darkness and unawareness metaphor…that the solipsistic will inherit the earth, because everyone else will vacate it, is interesting because it was always true on an individual level, but always will be wrong on a directional level. Your predictions of the future are 0% likely to be right. But smile, this is good news, unless you’re more afraid of things going well for others than things going badly, of course!

    Babi may agree with you, but he should reflect and realise that he actually agrees with me too.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    What you write about (genomic optimization) will be reserved to the global elite. I agree that 0.01% might have it very good in a couple of generations. They will be demi-gods. It is how everyone else would have it that I am thinking about. Probably my Communist upbringing showing up. 🙂

    , @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I don't work with revenge on a societal level, it is best to reserve one's revenge for the small circle one actually physically lives in :) On the big scale, revenge is too virtual and remote, not enjoyable or even effective...

    But I get what you mean:


    Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring,...total Aryan victory!
     
    Most likely not, at least not in the West. There are societal pressures and rulers ability to control outcomes. But the key reason is the system-metrics-variables issue: when you set out to manage a system (=human DNA) via a set of metrics you will expend a lot of effort, measure everything, adjust and review - and the one metric that you miss will change everything. Look into it, that's the inevitable issue with all metrics, all control. Why that is, we are not sure, but it always works that way. It would with gene-selection too, so maybe not an Aryan victory, but something completely different...

    so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.
     
    True, but they are a few cycles behind - the West in its indulgence is reaching the freedom plateau that can quickly turn into a quick-sand or a chasm. Others are more simple, less awareness obsessed. The sequence in life matters, it is all about how we deal with time and generations.

    My humble view is that most of the West is irretrievably f..ed. The process of endless 'liberation' is only accelerating. They can't fight wars, think straight, tolerate different views, or often even work as work is understood. They can only preach and try to keep the others down - that's what the West has collectively been doing for about a generation. That is a losing strategy, and I don't see how they could change - it would mean going back and they can't go back...they have to rush forward towards the precipice, because that's where the freedom is...:)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  303. @Beckow
    @sudden death


    ...‘morale collapse‘ by “regrouping” from Kiev...
     
    A perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees...

    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn't happen. That doesn't mean that it won't happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.

    You should hope it happens. The alternative of catastrophic infrastructure-city bombing ala Nato methods is worse. Or you can hope that Russia collapses first, what are the odds?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.

    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development;)

    • Agree: LatW
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development
     
    There is an old (Soviet-era) joke:
    Old and young bull are grazing in the meadow. A large herd of cows is grazing in a field across the river. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty black cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty white cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty brown cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says:
    - We will unhurriedly finish eating this meadow, then we will unhurriedly cross the river, and then we will fuck every cow in that herd.

    My impression is that Putin is unhurriedly finishing the meadow, while Western cows are becoming hysterical.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sudden death

  304. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

    Replies: @Yahya

    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

    Oof, tough question.

    I gave it some thought and came to this conclusion: I know it when I see it.

    I don’t think any definition can capture the nuance of racism.

    It can only be perceived by the human sense.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Try to make it more objective and measurable, otherwise you might end seen it in people who have none of it, while not seeing it in those who have aplenty.

  305. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    It is much more likely 30k than over 100k. There is 0% chance it is over 100k. It would be extremely obvious in their military performance. They would have lost cities as big as Kherson and been driven from the North East like Russia was from Kharkhiv.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …It would be extremely obvious in their military performance.

    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark? We also need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples – there are a large number of badly wounded, some die later, and the missing – Russians show many videos of dead Ukies, often dozens in a small place. Those are probably counted as ‘missing’ by Kiev…

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow


    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?
     
    100K deaths is impossible, but the true definition of casualities, including sprained ankles, is possible. Meaning 30k deaths or thereabouts.

    100k deaths would be perhaps another 300k rendered combat ineffective. This simply hasn't happened.

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark?
     
    She mispoke. Or she included all injuries and civilians. Who knows? It is obvious that it wasn't intentional. Politicians mispeak or get things wrong constantly. The only things is what the media or alt media chooses to bring attention to.

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties
     
    80-100k Ukrainians rendered combat ineffective and 140-200k Russians is my best guesstimate.

    Divide the Ukrainian figures by 3 and the Russian ones by 2.5 for deaths due to differences in medical provision and the better medical care usually in defence. I'd add that I think it is actually the lower end of both and my division may be wrong.

    Perhaps I feel safest saying 30k dead Ukrainian soldiers and 50k dead Russian soldiers, (with some horrifying additional number for Donbas seperatists who were treated very badly.)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  306. Sweden&Finland should use the chance and quickly offer to send large rescue&humanitarian teams into earthquake disaster zones of Turkey.

  307. @songbird
    @Yahya


    My beef is with the likes of LatW who endorse Israel
     
    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn't cuck, and they admire that - though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

    Honestly, don't know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don't. The most pro-European among them (rare individuals) seem to insist that the rights of Europeans are only actualized because of the Holocaust. (That is, the example of the Holocaust justifies why someone would not want to become a minority) It is pretty grating.

    Thanks, for the excerpt.

    Replies: @Yahya

    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn’t cuck, and they admire that – though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

    Yes that’s what i’m beginning to understand. Western Rightoids admire the ethnocentrism and resistance to cuckery of Israel; they don’t particularly care for the conflict or specific Israeli policies.

    I should however point out that “based” Israel is in large part a product of their Mizrahi population. A substantial portion of the secular Ashkenazim have cucked; but the Mizrahim keep Israel grounded.

    The obvious solution then for Europe to regain its manhood and resist the migratory invasion is to import a whole bunch of MENA people.

    Honestly, don’t know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don’t.

    I believe Netanyahu has expressed the need for Europe to tighten immigration laws: “In his 1995 book Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorism, Netanyahu strongly argued that tightening immigration laws in the West is the most effective method to combat terrorism. “This era of immigration free-for-all should be brought to an end”, he wrote in 1995. Netanyahu has urged the leaders of Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Poland to close their borders to illegal immigration.”

    I do wonder why the European right doesn’t point more often to Israel as a template for immigration control. I know Trump referenced their wall a few times; but otherwise there’s little talk of emulating Israel. Perhaps in Europe most people don’t really like Israel so it’s not a winning argument. But in the US it would be wise to constantly point to Israel as an example of “what needs to be done”.

    On the other hand; the Hispanics flooding in to the US aren’t really comparable to Palestinians. They’re not out to terrorize the American population; aren’t engaged in a conscious existential battle for territory and sovereignty; and aren’t really hated by any signifcant portion of the American population. So you’re fighting an uphill battle; imo one that is already lost to some extent.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yahya

    Getting the Mizrahim must have been a stroke of genius in the short-to-medium term. Not sure how it will play out in the longterm.



    I do wonder why the European right doesn’t point more often to Israel as a template for immigration control.
     
    Maybe, it doesn't feel organic enough. Israel is kind of a weird state. Almost civic nationalist because it is based on an idea, if not a truly universal one. And there have been so many pols that have been co-opted that the more nationalist types may be trying to countersignal that.


    So you’re fighting an uphill battle; imo one that is already lost to some extent.
     
    Oh, I'm probably more blackpilled than you. Another factor in America is that it is so big, that people think they can run from it forever, but I already see that being falsified to a certain extent in places like Maine and New Hampshire, which people thought were safe from it.

    I suspect that that many non-Euros are actually opposed to open borders in America. (For example, immigration has shifted from the more Mestizo Mexicans, and I don't think they are crazy about the more Mayan-type people putting downward pressure on their wages.) Probably enough to still make it a majority, if you count whites. But I think the system, whether in America or Western Europe, is just too corrupt to permit any political change, on the short time frame, where it would need to happen.
  308. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    Wow Beckow, this is a good post! I disagree with it, but you're onto something.

    If people are too good to live in this existence, then they will cease to live in this existence, unless exceptionally kind. I mean you'd have to be pretty awesome to choose living here just to alleviate suffering, yes? Though physical pleasures aren't bad...even if they come with physical pains.

    Anyway, Western societies may be striving quite successfully along the path of awareness, but they have a very long way to go.

    Also, so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.

    Furthermore, what's laugh out loud, then burst into tears of misery hilarisad, is that there's nothing to stop you but yourself from achieving this, instantly. Nothing. Like all darkness, it vanishes as soon as you look at it! At least if you know how to look.

    So back to the future biological basis of Western societies.

    Continuity of genes, which define the vehicle by which you move around on this plain, is about to become a very different subject. Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring, which will mean that everyone will have less genetic continuity, eventually approaching none to baseline populations. And those who don't, will be impossibly unhealthy, stupid and unattractive compared to those who do, so they will be irrelevant.

    Yes, this does mean that we are all impossibly stupid, unhealthy and unattractive compared to humans born in 50 years. And? Is this bad, or is this wonderful? I think wonderful for them and makes no difference to me! Maybe I'll even come back then...though I have experienced a lot in this lifetime so I'll have to reflect on it

    But avoiding such diversions, what else will this mean? For one, total Aryan victory! The future babies born to the various elites around the world will look much more like me!

    I guess I chose that part of this existence well! Why wouldn't I though? No need to be a Squatemalan when I could be a Ferrari! And the parents of the future children will agree, even the Squatemalan parents.

    Tall, slim, fair-haired and blue-eyed is the genetic lottery. "White privilege" is real and it is superior corporal aesthetics. Everyone knows it, even if not all white people are fortunate enough to epitomise it.

    But isn't this all superficial? Well, yes. It doesn't say anything about your soul or even aspects of genetically mediated expression of personality, but the same applies to that. People will obviously adapt those too.

    In other words, your revenge of the darkness and unawareness metaphor...that the solipsistic will inherit the earth, because everyone else will vacate it, is interesting because it was always true on an individual level, but always will be wrong on a directional level. Your predictions of the future are 0% likely to be right. But smile, this is good news, unless you're more afraid of things going well for others than things going badly, of course!

    Babi may agree with you, but he should reflect and realise that he actually agrees with me too.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow

    What you write about (genomic optimization) will be reserved to the global elite. I agree that 0.01% might have it very good in a couple of generations. They will be demi-gods. It is how everyone else would have it that I am thinking about. Probably my Communist upbringing showing up. 🙂

    • LOL: Leaves No Shadow
  309. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yahia, would you care to explain what exactly is racism in your own words ?

     

    Oof, tough question.

    I gave it some thought and came to this conclusion: I know it when I see it.

    I don't think any definition can capture the nuance of racism.

    It can only be perceived by the human sense.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Try to make it more objective and measurable, otherwise you might end seen it in people who have none of it, while not seeing it in those who have aplenty.

  310. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Actually, I was defending European civilization from McDonald, not Jews :)

    McDonald erases the grand spiritual journey of Europe that culminated in nihilism - and is of world-historical importance - in favor of biology.

    So I was also defending "Spirit" over the usual insipid materialism.

    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don't care for Western European civilization - it's not your "genetic lineage" or "oikumene" - but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it's one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy - to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.

    Well, it would be if McDonald wasn't largely ignored.

    McDonald once wrote that Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson - who wrote about learning spiritual lessons from India and were critical of Establishment America in it's soulless materialism - were utterly puzzling outliers who "turned against their people" for some unknown biological reason.

    Evidently he hadn't heard of the massive cultural critical movement of Romanticism who they were a part of.

    You can't make this stuff up. And McDonald wonders why his "thesis" doesn't pass the threshold of engagement from scholars of intellectual history.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don’t care for Western European civilization – it’s not your “genetic lineage” or “oikumene” – but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it’s one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy – to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.

    You don’t understand. Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don’t shit where I eat. Western society has given me a lot, much more than I deserve. If I stayed in RusFed I would have probably ended very badly – a violent sociopath hurting people for different idiotic reasons. In the West I studied, created interesting projects, had a family and my beloved kids. I want the West to thrive and be healthy. This is the place where my kids are growing and it’s their homeland. I also want Russia to become liberated from the RusFed bad trip and get back to what is best about it. And there is a lot of good in Russian people, they just had it rough for a very long time. You will get my point if and when you will have kids of your own. Stop being a wandering Jew and settle down ! 🙂

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    I get your point even now, without settling down or having kids - it's a fine attitude of gratitude and a desire to develop the good in everything. It's very lovely.

    But you are very critical of Russia as she is today - is that "shitting where you eat"? No, it's rather loving the good in her, which means hating the bad. You are also rather critical of the West that has earned your gratitude, as she is today.

    Surely, gratitude and love require us to love the good and hate the bad in the thing we love - and surely, that's "criticism". From the perspective of someone who loves our technological civilization, you are an underminer and a destroyer, a treasonous betrayer - someone who lacks gratitude and shits where he eats. You even derive your income from a tech job, for Pete's sake :)

    McDonald's insipid vision of a uniform society without layers and contradictions - without one part ever striving for the Good and to overcome the bad within it - such that any "criticism" is betrayal and treason and can only be a nefarious attack from outside rather than a call to transcendence, the vision of all unimaginative fascists, is a betrayal of the true glory of European civilization.

    McDonald is not a friend of White people or Western civilization - he is their diminisher. One day you will see that Bashi :) You are big enough.

    As for myself, some of us are meant to be wanderers and rovers and some of are meant to settle...

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don’t shit where I eat.
     
    McDonald's books are not bad but he has a really autistic take on something I can explain in one of these text boxes.

    There are enough Jews that by sticking together everybody notices.
    There are few enough Jews that they have to stick together.

    It really ain't much more complicated than that.

    Since they aren't studying Hebrew any more and they are marrying outside the tribe the problem we all seem to have will take care of itself eventually and in 500 years if there are still people and still historians a lot of them may well wonder what all the fuss was about.
  311. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    Wow Beckow, this is a good post! I disagree with it, but you're onto something.

    If people are too good to live in this existence, then they will cease to live in this existence, unless exceptionally kind. I mean you'd have to be pretty awesome to choose living here just to alleviate suffering, yes? Though physical pleasures aren't bad...even if they come with physical pains.

    Anyway, Western societies may be striving quite successfully along the path of awareness, but they have a very long way to go.

    Also, so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.

    Furthermore, what's laugh out loud, then burst into tears of misery hilarisad, is that there's nothing to stop you but yourself from achieving this, instantly. Nothing. Like all darkness, it vanishes as soon as you look at it! At least if you know how to look.

    So back to the future biological basis of Western societies.

    Continuity of genes, which define the vehicle by which you move around on this plain, is about to become a very different subject. Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring, which will mean that everyone will have less genetic continuity, eventually approaching none to baseline populations. And those who don't, will be impossibly unhealthy, stupid and unattractive compared to those who do, so they will be irrelevant.

    Yes, this does mean that we are all impossibly stupid, unhealthy and unattractive compared to humans born in 50 years. And? Is this bad, or is this wonderful? I think wonderful for them and makes no difference to me! Maybe I'll even come back then...though I have experienced a lot in this lifetime so I'll have to reflect on it

    But avoiding such diversions, what else will this mean? For one, total Aryan victory! The future babies born to the various elites around the world will look much more like me!

    I guess I chose that part of this existence well! Why wouldn't I though? No need to be a Squatemalan when I could be a Ferrari! And the parents of the future children will agree, even the Squatemalan parents.

    Tall, slim, fair-haired and blue-eyed is the genetic lottery. "White privilege" is real and it is superior corporal aesthetics. Everyone knows it, even if not all white people are fortunate enough to epitomise it.

    But isn't this all superficial? Well, yes. It doesn't say anything about your soul or even aspects of genetically mediated expression of personality, but the same applies to that. People will obviously adapt those too.

    In other words, your revenge of the darkness and unawareness metaphor...that the solipsistic will inherit the earth, because everyone else will vacate it, is interesting because it was always true on an individual level, but always will be wrong on a directional level. Your predictions of the future are 0% likely to be right. But smile, this is good news, unless you're more afraid of things going well for others than things going badly, of course!

    Babi may agree with you, but he should reflect and realise that he actually agrees with me too.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow

    I don’t work with revenge on a societal level, it is best to reserve one’s revenge for the small circle one actually physically lives in 🙂 On the big scale, revenge is too virtual and remote, not enjoyable or even effective…

    But I get what you mean:

    Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring,…total Aryan victory!

    Most likely not, at least not in the West. There are societal pressures and rulers ability to control outcomes. But the key reason is the system-metrics-variables issue: when you set out to manage a system (=human DNA) via a set of metrics you will expend a lot of effort, measure everything, adjust and review – and the one metric that you miss will change everything. Look into it, that’s the inevitable issue with all metrics, all control. Why that is, we are not sure, but it always works that way. It would with gene-selection too, so maybe not an Aryan victory, but something completely different…

    so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.

    True, but they are a few cycles behind – the West in its indulgence is reaching the freedom plateau that can quickly turn into a quick-sand or a chasm. Others are more simple, less awareness obsessed. The sequence in life matters, it is all about how we deal with time and generations.

    My humble view is that most of the West is irretrievably f..ed. The process of endless ‘liberation’ is only accelerating. They can’t fight wars, think straight, tolerate different views, or often even work as work is understood. They can only preach and try to keep the others down – that’s what the West has collectively been doing for about a generation. That is a losing strategy, and I don’t see how they could change – it would mean going back and they can’t go back…they have to rush forward towards the precipice, because that’s where the freedom is…:)

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    I think you'll be extremely surprised by this next decade.

    90% of new political ideas in the West are suggested by progressives, but only 10% succeed in becoming long-term policy. We don't realise this because both progressives and conservatives only focus on progressive successes. A lot of the most harmful stuff goes, but things like gay marriage will stay. Perhaps gay marriage doesn't mean much, except to the gays, but that's the point of legalising it.

    Contra to everyone online, the progressives have lost the vast majority of their battles but, crucially, they forget their losses and quickly move on. Remember "Defund the Police", well police budgets in progressive areas have gone up!

    The West will therefore be fine. When I bet on the competence of people, I usually prefer to bet on form, rather than my own meagre knowledge of the infinite complexity which societies face.

    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example. And genetic engineering will circumvent this problem entirely.

    On the other hand, I've become much more pessimistic on China. I can't believe they had a stringently enforced One Child Policy until just one decade from when their population began to collapse! And I am even dubious of their birth numbers. It is like what they did with COVID. Let it rip on a population that had gone back to naive immunity without any preparation. Bizarre, after 3 years of imprisoning people. Their system is brittle and goes from break to break.

    Europe will also struggle a bit. The quality of immigrants to Europe is low, especially at the highest end. And birth rates are awful, if not East Asian awful. The idea of letting Africa's future surplus 2 billion in is horrifying, but that's exactly why I don't think they will be let in. If governments have so far managed to avoid actually horrifying stuff, I suspect they will continue to be able to. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, Europe settles for being an aging continent in comfortable, secure mediocrity.

    The US on the other hand is extremely strong. I would, were I from there, probably prefer an open country of similar culture, that avoided all sorts of national external greatness, but, realistically, the vast majority of people in the world disagree with me. There are stories of starving Brits during the Empire being ecstatically happy when looking at painted red maps of places they'd never be able to go to. People love these empty postures. We can see it with support on both sides in this war, and some of the manic delusions that went along with it.

    Overall, things will be fine in most places and will improve in most places. Much more than you think.

    Replies: @S

  312. @Dmitry
    According to the PEW poll, there is now more partisan difference in America about support for Ukraine, with Republicans becoming more opposed than Democrats.

    In March 2022, there was not much partisan divide.

    But in January 2023, now 40% of Republicans believe the USA are giving too much aid to Ukraine. Only 15% of Democrats believe the USA is giving too much aid to Ukraine.

    https://i.imgur.com/ufna234.png

    Replies: @A123

    But in January 2023, now 40% of Republicans believe the USA are giving too much aid to Ukraine. Only 15% of Democrats believe the USA is giving too much aid to Ukraine.

    The Republican tally becomes more interesting when all 4 categories are shown:

    19 — No answer/Do not know/Do not care
    40 — Cut
    24 — Same
    17 — Increase

    59% want cuts or do not care. Only 41% have interest in the current scheme. Additional polling would be needed to find out how many of the 41% would prioritize Ukraine over domestic issues. My feel from being around other Republicans is that there is a high count for “inch deep” support. Strong interest is simply not there.

    This is the voter base for House majority that writes appropriations. The amount of money for Kiev is going to come down. Plus, it will include audits and other controls.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123

    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.

    Replies: @A123

  313. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Observing something doesn't mean you like it or agree with it. Also a researcher would want to be in the ideal setting for his experiment. Yes Shanghai is as close as it gets. Results of experiment: very low TFR, social credit and other unpleasantness... (Salvation... LOL)

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Observing something doesn’t mean you like it or agree with it

    Yes, but it also does not mean that you disagree with it.

    This concise introduction to the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in

    says that

    the appeal of accelerationism is as much ancient as modern: “They are speaking in a millenarian idiom,” promising that a vague, universal change is close at hand.

    which can be read as salvation or more precisely, the process of salvation, especially remembering that some millenarists (like Joachim da Fiore) apparently claimed that some kind of God’s Kingdom upon Earth will precede The Last Judgement, and that this Kingdom would be a time of radical change. Anyway, it is hard to read Nick Land as a some kind of neo-Luddite. I have never been a fan of him but from I read of him I remember him more as someone who writes about dark and unexpected sides of technological juggernaut than about the need for Bronze Age enclaves to preserve spiritual side of humanity (that would be Robert Graves in “Seven Days in New Crete”), which, I suppose, should be more to your personal taste.

    I remember this cheery techno-utopianism of the 90’ties in Poland among my friends: that was a time when Lech Walesa talked to people about building a second Japan in Poland, Japan being a symbol of techno-modernity. Well, it all ended with 9.11.2001 and the arrival of GWOT.
    However, the members of CCRU wanted something more: they wanted social change too.

    Yet there were two different visions of the future. In the US, confident, rainbow-coloured magazines such as Wired promoted what became known as “the Californian ideology”: the optimistic claim that human potential would be unlocked everywhere by digital technology. In Britain, this optimism influenced New Labour. At Warwick, however, the prophecies were darker. “One of our motives,” says Plant, “was precisely to undermine the cheery utopianism of the 90s, much of which seemed very conservative” – an old-fashioned male desire for salvation through gadgets, in her view. “We wanted a more open, convoluted, complicated world, not a shiny new order.”

    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view, but CCRU were apparently more ordo ex chao and ex inordinateo veni pecunia people; in other words, chaos pays – in many ways.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view
     
    I did not see it in the negative light back then in the early 90ies. Remember, I was growing up with Strugatsky brothers' books in my hands. We believed in a better future, we really did. We believed into what Strugatskys named "vertical progress", we had no reason to doubt the Utopia was right around the corner, peace in our time and all. Projet Aelita was being prepared for a launch towards Mars in 1998. Solar System was ours to colonize and terraform.

    Perestroika was the first warning call, then 1993 massacre the second and 1998 default the third. Still, I was into transhumanism back then, studying in a technology field that connected me to these types of things (although I have made my best since to distance myself as much as possible). I read the French translation of Schizmatrix in 1993 and it marked my young graduate student imagination forever.

    I was a techno-optimist and thought that Shafarevich might have been mistaken, that the collapse of the Soviet Union was simply a local problem, the result of the Soviet / Russian elites corruption and incompetence. It is not, humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological development. It is right now becoming evident in the West and in China/Japan/South Korea.

    Humans become alienated and stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo. The Technosphere is not a place for us to thrive. And Nick Land and Sadie Plant from the CCRU were among the first to understand that. It was before Nick Böstrom wrote about the existential risks to the human civilization that are inevitably coming our way on our development towards the Singularity (don't think we would get there anyway). It was before Gibson wrote about the Jackpot. It was of course well before Moynihan writing his X Risk book about the potential human extinction.

    Reading Nick Land was one of the first pieces of the puzzle that fell in place and helped me get out of the Technosphere - worship that I and my friends at the time were engaged into. There's no God in the Machine, but there might be ghosts and not the ones we would ever enjoy meeting. Fanged Noumena...

    God and Salvation are to be found inside human mind and inside it only. BTW Nick Land is currently writing frequently about God. Of course, he is doing it in his usual flippant manner, but being an intelligent man that he is, he probably understands that there are not many ways to get out of here "spiritually alive". And as he has written himself about the way our civilisation is evolving: "nothing human makes it out of the near future".

    Replies: @Dmitry

  314. @Yahya
    @AP


    As for Palestine – what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

     

    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They're mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.

    I don’t think a Judeo-Christian state in the Middle East would have worked out or even have been desired by the Arab Christian or Jewish population. Contrary to A123; there is no natural affinity between Christians and Jews in the Middle East. In fact many Christians view Jews as their enemies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTeRiAeKJVs&t=92s&ab_channel=ComunidadPalestinadeChile

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots. The most prominent Christian intellectual Edward Said was a loyal Palestinian and a proud Arab. As I’ve mentioned before; Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate.

    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslims; and perceive Jews to be more Western-friendly. But it’s important not to project this notion onto the Israeli-Arab situation. Christian Arabs are on the Arab side when it comes to the conflict with Israel. Notwithstanding A123 propaganda; the Palestinian Muslims have treated the Christians better than Israeli Jews on average; and the shared language and culture keep Muslims and Christians Palestinians tied together.

    In 20th century Palestine the local Muslims and Christians formed associations all over the country to counter the rising Zionist tide. From Benny Morris' Righteous Victims:


    After the November 2, 1918, Balfour Day parade in Jewish Jerusalem, more than one hundred Muslim and Christian notables, headed by Musa Kazim al-Husseini, Jerusalem’s mayor, handed Storrs a petition that stated: “We have noticed yesterday a large crowd of Jews carrying banners and over-running the streets shouting words which hurt the feelings and wound the soul. They pretend with open voice that Palestine, which is the Holy Land of our fathers and the graveyard of our ancestors, which has been inhabited by the Arabs for long ages, who loved it and died in defending it, is now a national home for them.”117 A similar petition was submitted by the Jaffa Muslim-Christian Association. Extremist secret societies, pledged to violence, also began to form. In February 1919 an organization called “the Black Hand” was established in Jaffa. Its proclaimed aim was to “kill the snail” of Zionism “while it was [still] young.”118 New Muslim-Christian associations sprang up elsewhere in the country. Soon federated in a national framework, in January 1919 they held the “First Palestine National Congress,” which supported the incorporation of Palestine into Syria, which the participants expected would shortly emerge as a fully independent Arab state.

     

    ----------

    But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

     

    Palestinians are as different from the ancient Hebrews as Croats are from Illyrians. The labels and language changed; but the people are substantially the same. That Palestinians are now "Arabs" and Croats "Slavs" doesn't mean they no longer have a connection to their Hebraic or Illyrian ancestors. In fact Palestinians are likely more descended from the ancient Hebrews than Ashkenazi Jews are.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them.

     

    Good point; I agree with it substantially. In a just world the Ashkenazim would've been given land in Germany as repatriation.

    Another good alternative would've been sending them to America; where already a substantial Jewish community exists. I'd be willing to bet that many Israelis would accept relocation to America if offered to them.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel's existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you'd find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs. They are also being dragged down by the dominant Mizrahi redneck culture which discourages intellectual activities. Israel only counts 5 Nobel laureates in the sciences over the past 70 years. If these Ashkenazi Jews were in New York City or the Bay Area; you could count on them having at least 2-4x more; going off American Jewish laureate numbers.

    The Ashkenazim are at their most fruitful in the West; where they benefit from unrivaled institutions and academic institutes. The world would have thus benefited if Israel had not existed; and European Jews sent to America instead.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @AP

    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.

    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots

    I’ve known a few Chaldeans but only one Palestinian Christian. He was mildly anti-Muslim but far more anti-Israeli, for the simple reason that the Israelis stole his family’s house and moved into it. They still have the paper deed to the house but left during fighting, and were then barred from returning. His family were well educated and moved to North America where they were successful (more so then in the old country). But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft? Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate

    The pan-Arab movement was also a generally secular one so it makes sense for Arab Christians to promote an ideology that places religion in the background and emphasizes Arab ethnicity and solidarity. Secular Baathism was rather good for Christians.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs

    This is an excellent point, but would have been solved by a homeland in East Prussia, which would be part of the West. I think the main reason for a Jewish State would be for this nation to have their own political homeland as other nations do.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    Russian Jews actively pushed for a state of their own at one time in Crimea, and then were given some autonomous region in the far eastern lands that was not avidly supported. Looks like the lands of Israel and Judea are the only viable options today, where the needs of the Arabs in the area have to also be taken into consideration.

    , @A123
    @AP


    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.
     
    It is more like the Lebanon case.

    Trying to find a detailed resource for each town is difficult. Narrowing on Bethlehem is a much easier data point: (1)

    In 1950, Bethlehem and the surrounding villages were 86 percent Christian.

    But by 2016, the Christian population dipped to just 12 percent,

    according Bethlehem mayor Vera Baboun. Across the West Bank, Christians now account for less than 2 percent of the population, though in the 1970s, Christians were 5 percent of the population.
     
    Protected Christian enclaves or zones could have made sense. A free standing Christian state would have had various problems. Most notably, it would be land locked. There would be no way to have contiguous access to a Christian port south of Tel-Aviv.

    Despite Yahya's intentionally misleading narrative, public perception at the time was "Christians had just rescued Jews from the Holocaust". There was little to no bad blood between Jews and Christians to drive separate Christian and Judaic states. And remember, Zionism in the 1940's was non-exclusionary.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.ncronline.org/bethlehems-declining-christian-population-casts-shadow-over-christmas
    , @Yahya
    @AP


    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.
     
    Yes the Muslim proportion has increased due to the factors you cited. In 1946, Nazareth had a population of 15,540, of whom roughly 60% were Christians and 40% were Muslims. Now it's 70% Muslim and 30% Christians.

    Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

     

    Well there was a poll taken by Pew in 2006 which showed a full 0% of Lebanese Christians approved of Jews:

    https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2006/07/41-4.gif

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2006/07/26/lebanons-muslims-relatively-secular-and-pro-christian/

    Not familiar with any recent polling; but my guess is that the figure would've increased to 2-4% by now.


    But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.
     
    Edward Said once talked about visiting the Jerusalem home he grew up in. It was was confiscated from his family and turned into an embassy for a fundamentalist Christian Zionist organization. The irony of a Christian organization inhabiting the home which was confiscated from Palestinian Christians because of some retarded Zionist ideology was not lost on Said.

    KW: Is Cairo your favourite city?

    ES: Certainly more than Jerusalem. My father also disliked Jerusalem—an austere, basically religious city. I have pleasant memories of it because I was born in Jerusalem where our house was. It is still there, in west, or Israeli Jerusalem. That was basically all Arab before 1948: we were driven out of it. When I went first went back in ’92, I was expecting to find an Israeli family living there, but I found an international Christian embassy, which is a fundamentalist Christian organisation, which is also Zionist. Now you won’t believe the next part: they believe (and the reason they support Israel) is that all Jewish people, from all over the world, will be gathered there for the second coming, in order for them to be killed.

    KW: Killed?

    ES: Either they convert, or if they don’t convert, they are destroyed.

    KW: And this is organised out of your ancestral family home?

    ES: It is extraordinary—the mixture is just too much. And those f**kers are in my house. I have never been able to go in there, although it is an office. It is a beautiful house, a two-story stone villa. The first time we went there, my daughter said, “Daddy, don’t you want to go in?” Some woman came out. She saw us standing there taking pictures, and I was pointing out trees in the garden that are still there where I used to play with my cousins and my sister. She said “Daddy, don’t you want to go in,” and an American woman came out and immediately said, “What can I do for you? Would you like to come in and have a chat?” I could not make myself go in. I just pointed out the window of the room where I was born. I was delivered by midwife at home.

    https://www.postcolonial.org/index.php/pct/article/viewFile/790/474

     

    -------------------

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft?
     
    Well they weren't good. As I mentioned above; the Muslim-Christian organizations sprung up in the early 1900s; long before the Nakba; to counter the rising tide of Zionism. Again; the Arab inhabitants of the area - whether Christian or Muslim - were well aware of the ill intentions Zionists had for them. Khalil al-Sakakini; a Palestinian Christians describes a riot which took place between Muslims-Christians on one side and Jews on the other.

    The rally had a joint Muslim-Christian tone and composition. One placard read: “Shall we give back the country to a people who crucified our Lord Jesus?” As the demonstration drew to a close, the head of the Hebronite pilgrims shouted, “Itbah al-Yahud”—and violence erupted. The crowd went on a rampage, moving toward West Jerusalem; Jews on Jaffa Street were stoned and Jewish shops looted. Khalil al-Sakakini, a Christian Arab educator and diarist, described what he saw: [A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams.… I saw a Zionist [that is, Jewish British] soldier covered in dust and blood.… Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the [Old City] wall’s corners next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him [the shoeshine boy] over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession.… The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, “Muhammad’s religion was born with the sword” … I immediately walked to the municipal garden … my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind.135

     

    Tom Segev wrote an excellent book on Palestine during the British Mandate:

    https://www.amazon.com/One-Palestine-Complete-British-Mandate/dp/0805065873

    Khalil al-Sakakini is a key subject in the book.

  315. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    yeah Jews belong with a separate state in the Baltic..Dasreich...Ohtay.

    Replies: @AP

    Are Sovoks filling Kant’s homeland with crappy Sovok apartments better?

  316. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry


    In most times, the society’s winners mostly want to continue the current order, while the society’s losers usually have relatively more motivation to create a revolution
     
    .

    Most revolutionary's come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class - where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more "boutique" concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want "meaning". In fact, the Palestinians can give us an excellent clue about the true sources of revolutionary sentiment anywhere in the world, which are obviously not material deprivation (the Palestinians are quite well off materially).

    Rather, it might be something like "respect", or "self esteem" - or better yet, "meaning". The Palestinians would have ceased their violence long ago if all they wanted was comfort and prosperity - that they have.

    Yahya above gives another clue - to end the conflict, he doesn't talk of improving material conditions, but of Jews becoming Arabs: it is an issue of self-esteem, pride, will to power.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

    And this is what has always been dangerous.

    The other source of revolutionary sentiment in the West are among those who find the system provides no "meaning" - and this is a growing sentiment.

    (Meaning and self esteem are closely related but not quite identical concepts).

    Replies: @A123

    Most revolutionary’s come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class – where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more “boutique” concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.

    You can definitely observe this in Iran and east Asia where relatively privileged university students are heavily engaged in potential revolutions. Children of the officer corps are in the mixture, which places front line police/troops in a terrible bind.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want “meaning”.

    Sorry. Largely incorrect. Let me illustrate:

    In Muslim occupied Gaza much of the problem comes from the cycle of “Bread & Circuses”. The underclass are not capable of work, get bread from the UNRWA dole, and then look for circuses to last them until the next handout. Futile riots & demonstrations are ways to idly fill time. Ultimately, it results in active avoidance of anything with meaning or purpose.

    The Hamas officials in Gaza are not revolutionaries. They are the establishment middle class types. The organizers want to make sure that the idle poor do not come after the true source of the problem. Instead they manipulate the malcontents to do stupid and self destructive things, such as marching on a secure border. Ultimately, this will backfire on the Muslim abusers who are keeping their coreligionists down.

    Fatah deception and self enrichment in the west Bank has similar themes and methods. The concept of revolution has been co-opted by the establishment. The fundamentally fake non-revolution keeps current Muslim leadership in power and mammon.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

    This might not fit well for the U.S. Which revolution are you talking about?

    SJW and Antifa revolutionaries that have become the establishment fit this concept. However, the action wing does not grasp that the revolution is over and they have won. Or, if you prefer, the revolutionaries are now in the “turning on each other” stage that follows many uprisings.

    MAGA is effectively a broad based counter revolutionary movement with lower, middle, and even some upper class support. An elite revolutionary minority obtained power and screwed things up. The desire for jobs and MAGA Reindustrialization is much better grounded than fringe ideologues.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    In the US, I meant the right-wing discontent one is seeing all over the place now - I think it's a function of some people finding no sources of meaning or esteem in our culture unless you buy into certain narratives of progress and technology. Those narratives monopolize the sources of esteem and meaning, but if you can't buy into them, our culture offers you little.

    It isn't about being an economic loser - these people are no worse off than many who buy into those narratives.

    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.

    Dmitry, channeling for the moment his materialist-determinist Marxist persona to atone for his brief foray into spirituality last month and restore balance to the Force, was trying to establish that economic success or lack of it was the determining factor in revolutionary sentiment, that familiar and banal 20th century trope that has been widely disproven too many times to count, but still seems destined to linger on as some sort of ghostly wraith well into the 21st century to confuse and mislead.

    I, remaining true to type and maintaining consistency, deployed my usual explanatory principle of intangible psycho-spiritul factors into the field to do battle with Dmitry's old and shopworn principles - which, I believed they routed.

    Replies: @A123

  317. @Beckow
    @Gerard1234

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves - by any count - about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years - plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    This will not end because Kiev runs out of manpower. One of two things will happen in 23:
    - Ukie morale breaks and large enough numbers refuse to fight
    - Russia escalates to massive destruction of Ukie infrastructure, logistics, even big cities.

    Russia obviously prefers the first one. The whole point of Nato effort is to prevent morale collapse with the 'Ukies are winning' propaganda, weapons, visits, etc... they also still faintly hope for Russia's internal collapse (very unlikely).

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about? Who would enforce any settlement? How long before it would restart? After 2014-22, Russia will not settle for a 'deal', they would have to be defeated.

    The situation is not that complex: Ukies are resisting, kicking and biting furiously as Nato cheers on from the sidelines. Russia wants to minimize the bites and still retains residual unwillingness to simply smash the Ukies. Each bite makes it less likely that Russia could walk away. The Nato cheerleaders have written off Kiev, they just enjoy the show and hope that Russia gets bloodied. Or that the war can be called off at some point with something remaining of Ukieland as 'anti-Russia' for the next round.

    Everyone other than Russia has thrown all they have to the war. It looks like Russia will try one more 'morale collapse' in the next few months. If Ukies refuse to give in, we will get the Nato-style 'shock-and-awe' to finish the job. Westerners, who mostly live with their heads in the sand will be 'shocked' that wars are fought that way and will refuse to acknowledge that they did it many times themselves...but that won't matter much.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about?

    They have had prisoner exchanges and notices that important shipping with no military function is on the water at such a time and place. Your categorical claim is false. : )

  318. @AP
    @Yahya


    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.
     
    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots
     
    I’ve known a few Chaldeans but only one Palestinian Christian. He was mildly anti-Muslim but far more anti-Israeli, for the simple reason that the Israelis stole his family’s house and moved into it. They still have the paper deed to the house but left during fighting, and were then barred from returning. His family were well educated and moved to North America where they were successful (more so then in the old country). But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft? Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate
     
    The pan-Arab movement was also a generally secular one so it makes sense for Arab Christians to promote an ideology that places religion in the background and emphasizes Arab ethnicity and solidarity. Secular Baathism was rather good for Christians.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs
     
    This is an excellent point, but would have been solved by a homeland in East Prussia, which would be part of the West. I think the main reason for a Jewish State would be for this nation to have their own political homeland as other nations do.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @Yahya

    Russian Jews actively pushed for a state of their own at one time in Crimea, and then were given some autonomous region in the far eastern lands that was not avidly supported. Looks like the lands of Israel and Judea are the only viable options today, where the needs of the Arabs in the area have to also be taken into consideration.

  319. @AP
    @Yahya


    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.
     
    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots
     
    I’ve known a few Chaldeans but only one Palestinian Christian. He was mildly anti-Muslim but far more anti-Israeli, for the simple reason that the Israelis stole his family’s house and moved into it. They still have the paper deed to the house but left during fighting, and were then barred from returning. His family were well educated and moved to North America where they were successful (more so then in the old country). But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft? Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate
     
    The pan-Arab movement was also a generally secular one so it makes sense for Arab Christians to promote an ideology that places religion in the background and emphasizes Arab ethnicity and solidarity. Secular Baathism was rather good for Christians.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs
     
    This is an excellent point, but would have been solved by a homeland in East Prussia, which would be part of the West. I think the main reason for a Jewish State would be for this nation to have their own political homeland as other nations do.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @Yahya

    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    It is more like the Lebanon case.

    Trying to find a detailed resource for each town is difficult. Narrowing on Bethlehem is a much easier data point: (1)

    In 1950, Bethlehem and the surrounding villages were 86 percent Christian.

    But by 2016, the Christian population dipped to just 12 percent,

    according Bethlehem mayor Vera Baboun. Across the West Bank, Christians now account for less than 2 percent of the population, though in the 1970s, Christians were 5 percent of the population.

    Protected Christian enclaves or zones could have made sense. A free standing Christian state would have had various problems. Most notably, it would be land locked. There would be no way to have contiguous access to a Christian port south of Tel-Aviv.

    Despite Yahya’s intentionally misleading narrative, public perception at the time was “Christians had just rescued Jews from the Holocaust”. There was little to no bad blood between Jews and Christians to drive separate Christian and Judaic states. And remember, Zionism in the 1940’s was non-exclusionary.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.ncronline.org/bethlehems-declining-christian-population-casts-shadow-over-christmas

  320. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I did not say that Land was optimistic, just that 90'ties were optimistic. This optimism about the inevitability of technical progress evolved into faith into technological singularity and transhumanism, which couldn't (or shouldn't) be stopped anymore, reducing human control over the entire process - that again was kind of pessimistic or "dark" for many. As I said, I heard about Land (in positive terms) not from Mencius Goldbug but from Steve Fuller (interesting author but more conventional than Land), who is a convinced and optimistic transhumanist.

    Accelerationism is a range of Marxist and reactionary ideas in critical and social theory that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change and other social processes in order to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformation, otherwise known as "acceleration".[

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    Nevertheless, it is reasonable to say that Nick Land rose out of that spirit of the '90ties. Even his research was conducted within Cybernetic Culture Research Unit - the name says it all.
    And yes, he was originally a philosopher who became a cultural theorist. Apparently, at Warwick philosophers transform into someone else - Fuller became a sociologist of knowledge.

    Isn't Land obscure..? Well, he has fans but is not widely known outside certain circles, I would say. Maybe in Russia he would be liked more - all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Nick Land in a nutshell.

    Brilliant guy. Uneven writer. If you are going to let loose on a word processor when your brain is polluted with methamphetamine you need a competent editor. Absolute requirement and he skipped it too many times.

    The accelerationists gave us two all time quips nobody will ever forget.

    I. The end of the world is easier to imagine than the end of capitalism.

    II. We are all fascists now and for the the entire foreseeable future.

    No doubt they stole these somewhere but they made them real. Zizek, the world’s most famous Slovenian now that Mrs. Trump has disappeared, has stolen all his best stuff from the accelerationists for years. So it’s all good, see?

    In a culture that wasn’t limping along Land definitely would not be teaching English in Shanghai. That is a pity.

  321. @A123
    @Dmitry


    But in January 2023, now 40% of Republicans believe the USA are giving too much aid to Ukraine. Only 15% of Democrats believe the USA is giving too much aid to Ukraine.
     
    The Republican tally becomes more interesting when all 4 categories are shown:

    19 -- No answer/Do not know/Do not care
    40 -- Cut
    24 -- Same
    17 -- Increase

    59% want cuts or do not care. Only 41% have interest in the current scheme. Additional polling would be needed to find out how many of the 41% would prioritize Ukraine over domestic issues. My feel from being around other Republicans is that there is a high count for "inch deep" support. Strong interest is simply not there.

    This is the voter base for House majority that writes appropriations. The amount of money for Kiev is going to come down. Plus, it will include audits and other controls.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.
     
    New MAGA Republicans are quite different from the old school, corporatist, GOP(e) swamp creatures like Liz Cheney.

    The transformation is in progress. Weasels like McConnell and Cornyn have yet to be pushed overboard. If MAGA wins out, likely but not 100% certain, you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  322. @sudden death
    @Beckow


    Invading a 35-40 million country w 100k soldiers depended on a Ukie morale collapse that didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean that it won’t happen this year after Ukies continue to suffer massive casualties.
     
    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development

    There is an old (Soviet-era) joke:
    Old and young bull are grazing in the meadow. A large herd of cows is grazing in a field across the river. Young bull says:
    – See that pretty black cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    – See that pretty white cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    – See that pretty brown cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says:
    – We will unhurriedly finish eating this meadow, then we will unhurriedly cross the river, and then we will fuck every cow in that herd.

    My impression is that Putin is unhurriedly finishing the meadow, while Western cows are becoming hysterical.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    The Tim Dillon show with Andrew Tate is pretty good for ten minutes.

    Highlight: his Muslim girlfriends tell him his schtick is perfectly in tune with what their dads and brothers said every night at the dinner table.

    , @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234

  323. @AnonfromTN
    @A123

    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.

    Replies: @A123

    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.

    New MAGA Republicans are quite different from the old school, corporatist, GOP(e) swamp creatures like Liz Cheney.

    The transformation is in progress. Weasels like McConnell and Cornyn have yet to be pushed overboard. If MAGA wins out, likely but not 100% certain, you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future
     
    I would love to. Hope springs eternal. But I won’t hold my breath.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  324. @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development
     
    There is an old (Soviet-era) joke:
    Old and young bull are grazing in the meadow. A large herd of cows is grazing in a field across the river. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty black cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty white cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty brown cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says:
    - We will unhurriedly finish eating this meadow, then we will unhurriedly cross the river, and then we will fuck every cow in that herd.

    My impression is that Putin is unhurriedly finishing the meadow, while Western cows are becoming hysterical.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sudden death

    The Tim Dillon show with Andrew Tate is pretty good for ten minutes.

    Highlight: his Muslim girlfriends tell him his schtick is perfectly in tune with what their dads and brothers said every night at the dinner table.

  325. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Maybe in Russia he would be liked more – all inevitability sounds like salvation in Russia, after all.
     
    There is no salvation at all in Land's writings. He comes to the conclusion that we are doomed as a species. Just doomed and basically cannot do anything about it. The only way to survive would be to stop technological progress and for that we would need dismantling Capitalism itself because in Landian thought capital and technology are interlinked. BTW, I have just realized that the Davos Man's brain (i.e. Herr Shwab's think-tank that claims being a World Forum about Economy) must have probably read Land. That would explain a lot.

    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed, don't write about it. Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it's disgraceful. Write about the Judeo-Christian stuff that you are an expert in. A friendly advice.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed (…).Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it’s disgraceful.

    That is true, I don’t know much about Russia. But I do know that Russia, unlike Poland, was a fertile ground for heresies and schisms, some of them quite extreme, like Chlysty. Some were Gnostic, some were Judaizing (I read that some even became later accepted in Israel as true Jews), and some I don’t really know, like the Old Believers whose popularity I could never understand, since they looked kind of like followers of sedevacantism in Catholicism, who really are marginal- where does this Starowiery popularity stem from ? It couldn’t be just about this Moscow patriarch they disagreed about – that would be too… flimsy (you can have another patriarch)…? Was their theology in any way original? As we can broadly divide heresies by their attitude to St Paul, gnostics saying that St Paul wasn’t enough radical about Jews, and Judaizers that St Paul wasn’t enough positive about Jews or maybe was wrong about them, what was the Old Believers position? Were they in any way millenarian?
    The presence of Judaizing sects in Russia clearly proves that at least some Russians were strongly concerned about their own salvation, and about this powerful Judeochristian text of NT – Revelation of St John, which doesn’t rhyme well with St Paul writings.

    As for Polish prejudices against Russia – well, as some Czech said,” it is nice to be in our Slavic family, but with Russia, Slavdom becomes about Russia”, a position somehow reflected in that that out of all Slavic lands only Russia deemed its land & people “sacred” as in “święta Ruś/sacred Russia”. Well, I heard that there is some legacy of Byzantium in that but it is kind strange that it was continued – like Russia really is commited to this translatio imperii theory of three Romes, where Moscow is the third Rome
    .
    However, taking into account the current mood in Poland, my position is really mild. For example, I am against floating ideas of demolishing Russian monuments and exhumating Russian military cemeteries in order to transfer them into less visible places. I do appreciate Russia’s positive role as a bulwark against Germany for all Slavs.

    I just think that Russia was always somehow lacking in her PR towards her Slavic kin… also, AFAIK, Russia has a kind of schizophrenic nature (such is perception of Russia in Poland at least), on one hand being “Slavic’, on the other hand, being a self-contained “Eurasian” civilization (yes, I read Trubetskoy). That very hampers Russia in her relations with the other Slavs, since this “Eurasianism” is often read as “Asianism”, and then as “Mongolism”, which I dislike since all Mongols I met were pretty nice (and anti-Chinese), and not all like past rulers or Russia. In other words, there is an abyss between positive perception of Russian Asian heritage in Russia and negative perception of this heritage in countries like Poland or Czechia.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Yes Russia is inherently schizoid, with its identity stretched and fractured between East and West. Ça fait partie de son charme.

    This is something latinized Slavs have lost. Slav people were and still are an Eurasian culture since times immemorial. They are the natives to a wide space between Central Europe and Siberia. Russians can get along perfectly with both an Englishman and a Chinese and are capable of being at ease with both. The worst thing Russians have ever done was attempting a total westernization under Piter the Great and the Bolshevik (yes Communism is a Western-European ideology).

    This duality is something I truly enjoy about my identity. Of course, it comes with a price: both Asians and Europeans could become suspicious and see it as a kind of opportunistic attitude or just find it strange and amusing. It is what it is...

    I will write about the Old Believers later. It's a very interesting topic.

  326. @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    The only difference between Dems and Reps I see is that Dems are insane. The other characteristics describe both parties equally well: stupid, greedy, shortsighted.
     
    New MAGA Republicans are quite different from the old school, corporatist, GOP(e) swamp creatures like Liz Cheney.

    The transformation is in progress. Weasels like McConnell and Cornyn have yet to be pushed overboard. If MAGA wins out, likely but not 100% certain, you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future

    I would love to. Hope springs eternal. But I won’t hold my breath.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Lockheed and Boeing are going to be pulling the strings when you and I and A123 are worm food. P~.99.

    18 large eggs are nine dollars at Safeway. Reality is pretty obvious to your wife and she might not even know how to spell Carl Schmitt.

  327. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    I will be unsurprised if we find out that Ukraine has sustained fewer than 30,000 military deaths in the entire year of warfare.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

    You are referring to deaths by soldiers committing suicide only right? Surely the 30k is not referring to deaths from the entire conflict!!!?? Or suicides + ukronazi regime reprisals then faked as “Russian atrocities” against “cyborgs”?

    Ideally at least 10k American and Canadian scum will perish from STD’s by the Ukrainian whores provided to them this year . I know for a fact that , sadly , any anglo-american scumbag, fighting or not, who has got to Kiev, Lvov in particular or anywhere else ……is getting worshipped by several “ukrainian” women willing to do any position for them. A very, very sick society in 404.

  328. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    you will see more distinction between the two groups in the future
     
    I would love to. Hope springs eternal. But I won’t hold my breath.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Lockheed and Boeing are going to be pulling the strings when you and I and A123 are worm food. P~.99.

    18 large eggs are nine dollars at Safeway. Reality is pretty obvious to your wife and she might not even know how to spell Carl Schmitt.

  329. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    Observing something doesn’t mean you like it or agree with it
     
    Yes, but it also does not mean that you disagree with it.

    This concise introduction to the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in

    says that

    the appeal of accelerationism is as much ancient as modern: “They are speaking in a millenarian idiom,” promising that a vague, universal change is close at hand.

    which can be read as salvation or more precisely, the process of salvation, especially remembering that some millenarists (like Joachim da Fiore) apparently claimed that some kind of God's Kingdom upon Earth will precede The Last Judgement, and that this Kingdom would be a time of radical change. Anyway, it is hard to read Nick Land as a some kind of neo-Luddite. I have never been a fan of him but from I read of him I remember him more as someone who writes about dark and unexpected sides of technological juggernaut than about the need for Bronze Age enclaves to preserve spiritual side of humanity (that would be Robert Graves in "Seven Days in New Crete"), which, I suppose, should be more to your personal taste.

    I remember this cheery techno-utopianism of the 90'ties in Poland among my friends: that was a time when Lech Walesa talked to people about building a second Japan in Poland, Japan being a symbol of techno-modernity. Well, it all ended with 9.11.2001 and the arrival of GWOT.
    However, the members of CCRU wanted something more: they wanted social change too.

    Yet there were two different visions of the future. In the US, confident, rainbow-coloured magazines such as Wired promoted what became known as “the Californian ideology”: the optimistic claim that human potential would be unlocked everywhere by digital technology. In Britain, this optimism influenced New Labour. At Warwick, however, the prophecies were darker. “One of our motives,” says Plant, “was precisely to undermine the cheery utopianism of the 90s, much of which seemed very conservative” – an old-fashioned male desire for salvation through gadgets, in her view. “We wanted a more open, convoluted, complicated world, not a shiny new order.”

    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view, but CCRU were apparently more ordo ex chao and ex inordinateo veni pecunia people; in other words, chaos pays - in many ways.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view

    I did not see it in the negative light back then in the early 90ies. Remember, I was growing up with Strugatsky brothers’ books in my hands. We believed in a better future, we really did. We believed into what Strugatskys named “vertical progress”, we had no reason to doubt the Utopia was right around the corner, peace in our time and all. Projet Aelita was being prepared for a launch towards Mars in 1998. Solar System was ours to colonize and terraform.

    Perestroika was the first warning call, then 1993 massacre the second and 1998 default the third. Still, I was into transhumanism back then, studying in a technology field that connected me to these types of things (although I have made my best since to distance myself as much as possible). I read the French translation of Schizmatrix in 1993 and it marked my young graduate student imagination forever.

    I was a techno-optimist and thought that Shafarevich might have been mistaken, that the collapse of the Soviet Union was simply a local problem, the result of the Soviet / Russian elites corruption and incompetence. It is not, humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological development. It is right now becoming evident in the West and in China/Japan/South Korea.

    Humans become alienated and stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo. The Technosphere is not a place for us to thrive. And Nick Land and Sadie Plant from the CCRU were among the first to understand that. It was before Nick Böstrom wrote about the existential risks to the human civilization that are inevitably coming our way on our development towards the Singularity (don’t think we would get there anyway). It was before Gibson wrote about the Jackpot. It was of course well before Moynihan writing his X Risk book about the potential human extinction.

    Reading Nick Land was one of the first pieces of the puzzle that fell in place and helped me get out of the Technosphere – worship that I and my friends at the time were engaged into. There’s no God in the Machine, but there might be ghosts and not the ones we would ever enjoy meeting. Fanged Noumena…

    God and Salvation are to be found inside human mind and inside it only. BTW Nick Land is currently writing frequently about God. Of course, he is doing it in his usual flippant manner, but being an intelligent man that he is, he probably understands that there are not many ways to get out of here “spiritually alive”. And as he has written himself about the way our civilisation is evolving: “nothing human makes it out of the near future”.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo
     
    The zoo, where the previously free animals, have been captured and then reproduced to such exponential numbers they can start to live in small cells on top of each other.

    https://i.imgur.com/mNldKkp.png


    humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological
     
    Well, there are around 20,000 polar bears in the world today. This is similar to the number of humans in most of human history, that were living in this planet. Sometimes they can walk across days, without seeing another bear.

    But what if the polar bears would reproduce to 8 billion, live in small boxes above each other, order industrialized fish by pushing on a screen?

    Instead of swimming in the ocean, they are watching images of a short on screen, talking about killing the other group of bears, because of imaginary labels about "nationalist bears", "Heterodox feminist bears".

    Instead of talking about the wind or the snow, they become hypnotized with strange words and labels that don't correspond to anything in the real world. Instead of the open sky and pure earth, their environment looks like experiments of someone for building an ant colony.
    https://i.imgur.com/ovr6TNo.jpg

    https://img.pervo.ru/uploads/posts/2019-04/87980789709-pervoru-4680.jpg

    Replies: @QCIC

  330. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...It would be extremely obvious in their military performance.
     
    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark? We also need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples - there are a large number of badly wounded, some die later, and the missing - Russians show many videos of dead Ukies, often dozens in a small place. Those are probably counted as 'missing' by Kiev...

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?

    100K deaths is impossible, but the true definition of casualities, including sprained ankles, is possible. Meaning 30k deaths or thereabouts.

    100k deaths would be perhaps another 300k rendered combat ineffective. This simply hasn’t happened.

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark?

    She mispoke. Or she included all injuries and civilians. Who knows? It is obvious that it wasn’t intentional. Politicians mispeak or get things wrong constantly. The only things is what the media or alt media chooses to bring attention to.

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties

    80-100k Ukrainians rendered combat ineffective and 140-200k Russians is my best guesstimate.

    Divide the Ukrainian figures by 3 and the Russian ones by 2.5 for deaths due to differences in medical provision and the better medical care usually in defence. I’d add that I think it is actually the lower end of both and my division may be wrong.

    Perhaps I feel safest saying 30k dead Ukrainian soldiers and 50k dead Russian soldiers, (with some horrifying additional number for Donbas seperatists who were treated very badly.)

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Donbas separatists
     
    How the US came into being: North American separatists kicked Brits out of thirteen colonies internationally recognized as parts of the British Empire.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  331. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Poetry is free expression of one’s feelings in words
     
    Isn't that the definition of prose :)

    Poetry would be the disciplined expression of the idealistic side of life, the beautiful side of life. And it is far from limited to words. A building can be poetic or prosaic, a life can be poetic or prosaic.

    On one level, fashion is the silly side of a concern with aesthetics - it is vanity and flippancy. On another level, regular change in style is a celebration of poetic variety, an attempt to explore beauty in all it's multifariousness.

    And I am no longer sure our Western "truism" that appearance is unrelated to substance is true at all. I don't necessarily mean that genetically, like the phrenologists, but whether one is fat or thin, how one dresses and comports oneself, if one is polite or rude - these outward physical expressions are indications of ones spiritual and moral state at that time, at least (not an indication of ones "intrinsic" moral character for all eternity).

    Depressed people are famously slovenly, fat or emaciated, etc.

    I remember your outlandish comment about SIr Francis Burton, whose face – according to you – was to express some depth or something.
     
    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling. Faces, as one gets older, also express character built up over a lifetime, and that has moral and aesthetic significance.

    Now you speak about morality and aesthetics.
     
    They are inseparable. In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.

    Is it any wonder that the moral decline of Western civilization coincided with it's aesthetic decline? Today, we dress bad, and we act bad.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful? But this isn't about being born beautiful - I am not particularly beautiful either.

    This is about art, and it's moral dimension. The Japanese, and Asians in general, are not genetically gifted in the beauty department. Asians are not a particularly beautiful people. But it is astonishing how pleasant they can make themselves look on the whole through art. It is a commitment to art, to poetry, and the moral dimension that reveals, that is relevant here.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling.

    I am mildly familiar with the history of art. Therefore I know the term licentia poetica, or broadly, the freedom granted upon artists. In my personal opinion, you can sometimes judge a nature of life someone has lived on the basis of his face, but certainly not his character. There are many counter-examples of deceiving faces too.

    In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.

    In Christian theology, this very Platonic view is not really emphasized (it is more on the level of abstract, ideal values) since that would potentially lead to the heresy of pantheism. Also, the only human being in whom God incarnated was Jesus Christ. Trying to find traces of God in every face would devalue Christ incarnation.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful?

    There are different opinion about that, however none says that I am ugly. However, I am sometimes a bit slovenly, so I don’t like this dictate of “looking well” all the time- I would feel that I am trying to cheat someone, presenting to him my false nature.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Are you kidding me :) The unity of truth, beauty, and goodness is absolutely central to classical Christianity.

    But it exists in every tradition. In Chinese tradition, it was thought one could not be a good artist without being a morally good man - and before attempting art, one would first strive to morally purify oneself.

    Beauty and Goodness are in the end One - and indeed, might we not speak of an especially fine act of selfness or generosity as "beautiful"? Art, dealing with the Ideal, is essentially moral.

    Also, in classic Christian theology God is indeed "immanent" in everything, most emphatically including humans, although being more than the world it isn't pantheism - you are channelling a rather impoverished version of modern "Christianity" :)

    Indeed, Theosis is developing the spark of God in us so as to achieve union with him.

    I am sure you are not ugly, of course, I was just being facetious. But if you like looking slovenly, you are clearly a moral reprobate :) You have unveiled your spiritual deficiencies to me.

    But it is no matter - all of us can do better. Perhaps, if you morally purify yourself, you will suddenly develop an interest in personal aesthetics :) Or perhaps, if you stop being slovenly, you will suddenly find you are more generous, kind, and noble :)

    Try it!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  332. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    You don’t know much about either Russia or RusFed (...).Your Polish historical neuroses come out and it’s disgraceful.
     
    That is true, I don't know much about Russia. But I do know that Russia, unlike Poland, was a fertile ground for heresies and schisms, some of them quite extreme, like Chlysty. Some were Gnostic, some were Judaizing (I read that some even became later accepted in Israel as true Jews), and some I don't really know, like the Old Believers whose popularity I could never understand, since they looked kind of like followers of sedevacantism in Catholicism, who really are marginal- where does this Starowiery popularity stem from ? It couldn't be just about this Moscow patriarch they disagreed about - that would be too... flimsy (you can have another patriarch)...? Was their theology in any way original? As we can broadly divide heresies by their attitude to St Paul, gnostics saying that St Paul wasn't enough radical about Jews, and Judaizers that St Paul wasn't enough positive about Jews or maybe was wrong about them, what was the Old Believers position? Were they in any way millenarian?
    The presence of Judaizing sects in Russia clearly proves that at least some Russians were strongly concerned about their own salvation, and about this powerful Judeochristian text of NT - Revelation of St John, which doesn't rhyme well with St Paul writings.

    As for Polish prejudices against Russia - well, as some Czech said," it is nice to be in our Slavic family, but with Russia, Slavdom becomes about Russia", a position somehow reflected in that that out of all Slavic lands only Russia deemed its land & people "sacred" as in "święta Ruś/sacred Russia". Well, I heard that there is some legacy of Byzantium in that but it is kind strange that it was continued - like Russia really is commited to this translatio imperii theory of three Romes, where Moscow is the third Rome
    .
    However, taking into account the current mood in Poland, my position is really mild. For example, I am against floating ideas of demolishing Russian monuments and exhumating Russian military cemeteries in order to transfer them into less visible places. I do appreciate Russia's positive role as a bulwark against Germany for all Slavs.

    I just think that Russia was always somehow lacking in her PR towards her Slavic kin... also, AFAIK, Russia has a kind of schizophrenic nature (such is perception of Russia in Poland at least), on one hand being "Slavic', on the other hand, being a self-contained "Eurasian" civilization (yes, I read Trubetskoy). That very hampers Russia in her relations with the other Slavs, since this "Eurasianism" is often read as "Asianism", and then as "Mongolism", which I dislike since all Mongols I met were pretty nice (and anti-Chinese), and not all like past rulers or Russia. In other words, there is an abyss between positive perception of Russian Asian heritage in Russia and negative perception of this heritage in countries like Poland or Czechia.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yes Russia is inherently schizoid, with its identity stretched and fractured between East and West. Ça fait partie de son charme.

    This is something latinized Slavs have lost. Slav people were and still are an Eurasian culture since times immemorial. They are the natives to a wide space between Central Europe and Siberia. Russians can get along perfectly with both an Englishman and a Chinese and are capable of being at ease with both. The worst thing Russians have ever done was attempting a total westernization under Piter the Great and the Bolshevik (yes Communism is a Western-European ideology).

    This duality is something I truly enjoy about my identity. Of course, it comes with a price: both Asians and Europeans could become suspicious and see it as a kind of opportunistic attitude or just find it strange and amusing. It is what it is…

    I will write about the Old Believers later. It’s a very interesting topic.

  333. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow


    Ukie performance lately has been very mixed. Why would 100k casualties be obvious in an army of over half a million?
     
    100K deaths is impossible, but the true definition of casualities, including sprained ankles, is possible. Meaning 30k deaths or thereabouts.

    100k deaths would be perhaps another 300k rendered combat ineffective. This simply hasn't happened.

    How do you explain the EU lady over 100k remark?
     
    She mispoke. Or she included all injuries and civilians. Who knows? It is obvious that it wasn't intentional. Politicians mispeak or get things wrong constantly. The only things is what the media or alt media chooses to bring attention to.

    What number do you consider acceptable? And what is your estimate for the Russian casualties
     
    80-100k Ukrainians rendered combat ineffective and 140-200k Russians is my best guesstimate.

    Divide the Ukrainian figures by 3 and the Russian ones by 2.5 for deaths due to differences in medical provision and the better medical care usually in defence. I'd add that I think it is actually the lower end of both and my division may be wrong.

    Perhaps I feel safest saying 30k dead Ukrainian soldiers and 50k dead Russian soldiers, (with some horrifying additional number for Donbas seperatists who were treated very badly.)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Donbas separatists

    How the US came into being: North American separatists kicked Brits out of thirteen colonies internationally recognized as parts of the British Empire.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    The US separatists didn't release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year. This is horrific and probably without precedent. It also must surely dwarf Russian casualties, at least as a proportion of the total fighters. Meaning that Russia has treated the Donbas militias as entirely disposable.

    Ukraine rotates their troops and uses conservative tactics to preserve manpower. Russia also tries to preserve its soldiers, but it seems it threw away an entire generation of Donbas men for no purpose at all and without any sort of care or memorial. Literally nothing.

    Just for that Putin should be shot.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  334. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I don't work with revenge on a societal level, it is best to reserve one's revenge for the small circle one actually physically lives in :) On the big scale, revenge is too virtual and remote, not enjoyable or even effective...

    But I get what you mean:


    Everyone will engage in some form of unnatural genetic selection or moderation of their offspring,...total Aryan victory!
     
    Most likely not, at least not in the West. There are societal pressures and rulers ability to control outcomes. But the key reason is the system-metrics-variables issue: when you set out to manage a system (=human DNA) via a set of metrics you will expend a lot of effort, measure everything, adjust and review - and the one metric that you miss will change everything. Look into it, that's the inevitable issue with all metrics, all control. Why that is, we are not sure, but it always works that way. It would with gene-selection too, so maybe not an Aryan victory, but something completely different...

    so are all other humans, whether aware of it or not.
     
    True, but they are a few cycles behind - the West in its indulgence is reaching the freedom plateau that can quickly turn into a quick-sand or a chasm. Others are more simple, less awareness obsessed. The sequence in life matters, it is all about how we deal with time and generations.

    My humble view is that most of the West is irretrievably f..ed. The process of endless 'liberation' is only accelerating. They can't fight wars, think straight, tolerate different views, or often even work as work is understood. They can only preach and try to keep the others down - that's what the West has collectively been doing for about a generation. That is a losing strategy, and I don't see how they could change - it would mean going back and they can't go back...they have to rush forward towards the precipice, because that's where the freedom is...:)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I think you’ll be extremely surprised by this next decade.

    90% of new political ideas in the West are suggested by progressives, but only 10% succeed in becoming long-term policy. We don’t realise this because both progressives and conservatives only focus on progressive successes. A lot of the most harmful stuff goes, but things like gay marriage will stay. Perhaps gay marriage doesn’t mean much, except to the gays, but that’s the point of legalising it.

    Contra to everyone online, the progressives have lost the vast majority of their battles but, crucially, they forget their losses and quickly move on. Remember “Defund the Police”, well police budgets in progressive areas have gone up!

    The West will therefore be fine. When I bet on the competence of people, I usually prefer to bet on form, rather than my own meagre knowledge of the infinite complexity which societies face.

    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example. And genetic engineering will circumvent this problem entirely.

    On the other hand, I’ve become much more pessimistic on China. I can’t believe they had a stringently enforced One Child Policy until just one decade from when their population began to collapse! And I am even dubious of their birth numbers. It is like what they did with COVID. Let it rip on a population that had gone back to naive immunity without any preparation. Bizarre, after 3 years of imprisoning people. Their system is brittle and goes from break to break.

    Europe will also struggle a bit. The quality of immigrants to Europe is low, especially at the highest end. And birth rates are awful, if not East Asian awful. The idea of letting Africa’s future surplus 2 billion in is horrifying, but that’s exactly why I don’t think they will be let in. If governments have so far managed to avoid actually horrifying stuff, I suspect they will continue to be able to. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, Europe settles for being an aging continent in comfortable, secure mediocrity.

    The US on the other hand is extremely strong. I would, were I from there, probably prefer an open country of similar culture, that avoided all sorts of national external greatness, but, realistically, the vast majority of people in the world disagree with me. There are stories of starving Brits during the Empire being ecstatically happy when looking at painted red maps of places they’d never be able to go to. People love these empty postures. We can see it with support on both sides in this war, and some of the manic delusions that went along with it.

    Overall, things will be fine in most places and will improve in most places. Much more than you think.

    • Replies: @S
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example.
     
    Hmmm...I dunno about that.

    https://youtu.be/BdPmNM0IF7Y



    https://youtu.be/2zKDQfVbWqc

    Replies: @Beckow

  335. The beginning of the campaign for the Russian Presidential election in 2024 is less than a year away.

    What’s this mean?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Means it coincides with scheduled 2024 spring presidential election in Ukraine;)

  336. @Leaves No Shadow
    The beginning of the campaign for the Russian Presidential election in 2024 is less than a year away.

    What's this mean?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Means it coincides with scheduled 2024 spring presidential election in Ukraine;)

  337. @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Massive, epic and shitty gambling being continuously employed as a core principle of RF strategy is more than hopeful positive development
     
    There is an old (Soviet-era) joke:
    Old and young bull are grazing in the meadow. A large herd of cows is grazing in a field across the river. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty black cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty white cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says nothing. Young bull says:
    - See that pretty brown cow? Let’s dash across the river and fuck her.
    The old bull says:
    - We will unhurriedly finish eating this meadow, then we will unhurriedly cross the river, and then we will fuck every cow in that herd.

    My impression is that Putin is unhurriedly finishing the meadow, while Western cows are becoming hysterical.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @sudden death

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow
     
    Enjoy while you can. Don’t waste a single moment, as not many are left.

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Gerard1234
    @sudden death


    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

     

    Refusing on point of principle to watch the fantasies of a sick worthless POS from a sick POS telegram site that is high chance a fake anyway ( like much of the claimed "peremoga" are)

    Isn't the best "resistance" you worthless genuine faggots in Litva showed in 250 years to Russia, literally.........holding hands in one big line with other Baltic faggots? Not exactly Stalingrad or Borodino, LOL.

    Why is it always the most worthless scumbags from the most insipid, worthless scumbag countries , who have shown historically the most insipid , worthless resistance to rule by Russia ( enlightenment would be the more accurate description of these periods)........who are the loudest and most pathetic screamers and inciters about "standing up to Russia"?!!!

    Such is how psychologically messed up the human garbage freaks in the Baltics and Poland are.......I think there is genuine trauma not at the SMO, but that the SMO wasn't done towards them.....give value to their worthless POS lives.

    Replies: @sudden death, @QCIC

  338. This is my new favorite:

    [MORE]

  339. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow

    Enjoy while you can. Don’t waste a single moment, as not many are left.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Don't be so pessimistic, RF still has plenty of 50 year old T-62's from the scraps, should be enough for additional similar footage in the snowy or greener meadows too;)

  340. @AP
    @Yahya


    Palestinian Christians live around Jerusalem and its vicinity: Bethlehem, Beit Jala, Beit Sahour, Ramallah, Bir Zayt, Jifna, Ein Arik, Taybeh. They’re mixed up with the Muslim population. In Nazareth, Muslims constitute 70% of the population and Christians 30%.
     
    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    I know that some Chaldeans you know don’t like to identify with Arabs; but Palestinian Christians are well-integrated culturally with their Muslim compatriots
     
    I’ve known a few Chaldeans but only one Palestinian Christian. He was mildly anti-Muslim but far more anti-Israeli, for the simple reason that the Israelis stole his family’s house and moved into it. They still have the paper deed to the house but left during fighting, and were then barred from returning. His family were well educated and moved to North America where they were successful (more so then in the old country). But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft? Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Levantine Christians are prominent in Arab music, movies, literature etc. They are not oppressed minorities in any meaningful sense; nor do they wish to separate from Muslims. In fact they were pioneers of the pan-Arab movement which sought to integrate Arabs further; not separate
     
    The pan-Arab movement was also a generally secular one so it makes sense for Arab Christians to promote an ideology that places religion in the background and emphasizes Arab ethnicity and solidarity. Secular Baathism was rather good for Christians.

    Many people like Bertrand Russell make the reasonable argument that Israel’s existence should exist on utilitarian grounds. That is, because Jews are significant contributors to human knowledge and scientific advancement; they should be allowed to exist in their own state. But if you think about the second-order and third-order consequences; you’d find that Israel minimizes Jewish intellectual contribution rather than maximize it. Instead of putting brain-power into constructive science or technology; the Ashkenazim are forced to exude considerable effort on security affairs
     
    This is an excellent point, but would have been solved by a homeland in East Prussia, which would be part of the West. I think the main reason for a Jewish State would be for this nation to have their own political homeland as other nations do.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123, @Yahya

    Was it always like this, or has the Muslim increased relative to the Christian in recent decades due to lower fertility and greater emigration by Christians, as has been the case in Lebanon? I was curious about potential viability of such a state in 1945.

    Yes the Muslim proportion has increased due to the factors you cited. In 1946, Nazareth had a population of 15,540, of whom roughly 60% were Christians and 40% were Muslims. Now it’s 70% Muslim and 30% Christians.

    Lebanese Christians are not as anti-Israel as Palestinians ones are.

    Well there was a poll taken by Pew in 2006 which showed a full 0% of Lebanese Christians approved of Jews:

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2006/07/26/lebanons-muslims-relatively-secular-and-pro-christian/

    Not familiar with any recent polling; but my guess is that the figure would’ve increased to 2-4% by now.

    [MORE]

    But the thought of some squatters just stealing and living in the house that the family had built, the lands they had owned for generations, was a source of real and understandable anger.

    Edward Said once talked about visiting the Jerusalem home he grew up in. It was was confiscated from his family and turned into an embassy for a fundamentalist Christian Zionist organization. The irony of a Christian organization inhabiting the home which was confiscated from Palestinian Christians because of some retarded Zionist ideology was not lost on Said.

    KW: Is Cairo your favourite city?

    ES: Certainly more than Jerusalem. My father also disliked Jerusalem—an austere, basically religious city. I have pleasant memories of it because I was born in Jerusalem where our house was. It is still there, in west, or Israeli Jerusalem. That was basically all Arab before 1948: we were driven out of it. When I went first went back in ’92, I was expecting to find an Israeli family living there, but I found an international Christian embassy, which is a fundamentalist Christian organisation, which is also Zionist. Now you won’t believe the next part: they believe (and the reason they support Israel) is that all Jewish people, from all over the world, will be gathered there for the second coming, in order for them to be killed.

    KW: Killed?

    ES: Either they convert, or if they don’t convert, they are destroyed.

    KW: And this is organised out of your ancestral family home?

    ES: It is extraordinary—the mixture is just too much. And those f**kers are in my house. I have never been able to go in there, although it is an office. It is a beautiful house, a two-story stone villa. The first time we went there, my daughter said, “Daddy, don’t you want to go in?” Some woman came out. She saw us standing there taking pictures, and I was pointing out trees in the garden that are still there where I used to play with my cousins and my sister. She said “Daddy, don’t you want to go in,” and an American woman came out and immediately said, “What can I do for you? Would you like to come in and have a chat?” I could not make myself go in. I just pointed out the window of the room where I was born. I was delivered by midwife at home.

    https://www.postcolonial.org/index.php/pct/article/viewFile/790/474

    ——————-

    But might such attitudes have been different prior to such theft?

    Well they weren’t good. As I mentioned above; the Muslim-Christian organizations sprung up in the early 1900s; long before the Nakba; to counter the rising tide of Zionism. Again; the Arab inhabitants of the area – whether Christian or Muslim – were well aware of the ill intentions Zionists had for them. Khalil al-Sakakini; a Palestinian Christians describes a riot which took place between Muslims-Christians on one side and Jews on the other.

    The rally had a joint Muslim-Christian tone and composition. One placard read: “Shall we give back the country to a people who crucified our Lord Jesus?” As the demonstration drew to a close, the head of the Hebronite pilgrims shouted, “Itbah al-Yahud”—and violence erupted. The crowd went on a rampage, moving toward West Jerusalem; Jews on Jaffa Street were stoned and Jewish shops looted. Khalil al-Sakakini, a Christian Arab educator and diarist, described what he saw: [A] riot broke out, the people began to run about and stones were thrown at the Jews. The shops were closed and there were screams.… I saw a Zionist [that is, Jewish British] soldier covered in dust and blood.… Afterwards, I saw one Hebronite approach a Jewish shoeshine boy, who hid behind a sack in one of the [Old City] wall’s corners next to Jaffa Gate, and take his box and beat him [the shoeshine boy] over the head. He screamed and began to run, his head bleeding and the Hebronite left him and returned to the procession.… The riot reached its zenith. All shouted, “Muhammad’s religion was born with the sword” … I immediately walked to the municipal garden … my soul is nauseated and depressed by the madness of humankind.135

    Tom Segev wrote an excellent book on Palestine during the British Mandate:

    Khalil al-Sakakini is a key subject in the book.

  341. @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow
     
    Enjoy while you can. Don’t waste a single moment, as not many are left.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Don’t be so pessimistic, RF still has plenty of 50 year old T-62’s from the scraps, should be enough for additional similar footage in the snowy or greener meadows too;)

  342. @Yahya
    @songbird


    I think it is more a rhetorical thing with nationalists. (i.e. not that they admire it directly but that Israel doesn’t cuck, and they admire that – though I think Dmitry would say that it does on some levels.)

     

    Yes that's what i'm beginning to understand. Western Rightoids admire the ethnocentrism and resistance to cuckery of Israel; they don't particularly care for the conflict or specific Israeli policies.

    I should however point out that "based" Israel is in large part a product of their Mizrahi population. A substantial portion of the secular Ashkenazim have cucked; but the Mizrahim keep Israel grounded.

    The obvious solution then for Europe to regain its manhood and resist the migratory invasion is to import a whole bunch of MENA people.

    Honestly, don’t know what it would be like it Zionists reciprocated, but they don’t.
     
    I believe Netanyahu has expressed the need for Europe to tighten immigration laws: "In his 1995 book Fighting Terrorism: How Democracies Can Defeat Domestic and International Terrorism, Netanyahu strongly argued that tightening immigration laws in the West is the most effective method to combat terrorism. "This era of immigration free-for-all should be brought to an end", he wrote in 1995. Netanyahu has urged the leaders of Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Poland to close their borders to illegal immigration."

    I do wonder why the European right doesn't point more often to Israel as a template for immigration control. I know Trump referenced their wall a few times; but otherwise there's little talk of emulating Israel. Perhaps in Europe most people don't really like Israel so it's not a winning argument. But in the US it would be wise to constantly point to Israel as an example of "what needs to be done".

    On the other hand; the Hispanics flooding in to the US aren't really comparable to Palestinians. They're not out to terrorize the American population; aren't engaged in a conscious existential battle for territory and sovereignty; and aren't really hated by any signifcant portion of the American population. So you're fighting an uphill battle; imo one that is already lost to some extent.

    Replies: @songbird

    Getting the Mizrahim must have been a stroke of genius in the short-to-medium term. Not sure how it will play out in the longterm.

    [MORE]

    I do wonder why the European right doesn’t point more often to Israel as a template for immigration control.

    Maybe, it doesn’t feel organic enough. Israel is kind of a weird state. Almost civic nationalist because it is based on an idea, if not a truly universal one. And there have been so many pols that have been co-opted that the more nationalist types may be trying to countersignal that.

    So you’re fighting an uphill battle; imo one that is already lost to some extent.

    Oh, I’m probably more blackpilled than you. Another factor in America is that it is so big, that people think they can run from it forever, but I already see that being falsified to a certain extent in places like Maine and New Hampshire, which people thought were safe from it.

    I suspect that that many non-Euros are actually opposed to open borders in America. (For example, immigration has shifted from the more Mestizo Mexicans, and I don’t think they are crazy about the more Mayan-type people putting downward pressure on their wages.) Probably enough to still make it a majority, if you count whites. But I think the system, whether in America or Western Europe, is just too corrupt to permit any political change, on the short time frame, where it would need to happen.

  343. @Yevardian
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    One sees this too in countries like Japan and other Asian countries – a devotion to surface beauty gives life a poetic veneer that actually has a moral dimension and spreads it’s influence into all areas of life.
     
    LOL

    Have you ever been to any major east Asian city?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    East Asians are basically insects or made from spare dinosaur parts.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    East Asians are basically insects
     
    Can’t agree. I know several Chinese and Koreans personally (they worked in my lab). Each has a clear personality; the variety is equal to that of Whites. Intellectually they also are as different as Whites (from very smart to quite stupid). Didn’t notice anything in their behavior suggesting that it’s hard-wired, like in insects. They value education and knowledge more than Anglos. It’s a cultural thing; the same can be said about Russians or Cubans. So, in my experience, East Asians are no more insect-like than White people.

    Replies: @Yevardian

  344. Mindless useless gossip corner – boomer Madonna is slowly, but surely morphing into another Frank…sorry, Jocelyn Wildenstein:

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    https://i.iplsc.com/-/000E5MBAXNHFRIB2-C462-F4.jpg

    , @songbird
    @sudden death

    Madonna would be a great movie monster, if they incorporated her own backstory into it.

    Tried to make the story about her getting a younger apprentice, to sell her soul to become top of the pop charts. Some girl in a Catholic School.

    And at some point they could do a crossover with Lady Gaga who calls her fans "little monsters", like the Wolfman and the Mummy, or Dracula vs. Frankenstein.

  345. @sudden death
    Mindless useless gossip corner - boomer Madonna is slowly, but surely morphing into another Frank...sorry, Jocelyn Wildenstein:

    https://g.delfi.lt/images/pix/madonna-92457785.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/137074888/wild1_400x400.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

  346. @Wokechoke
    @Yevardian

    East Asians are basically insects or made from spare dinosaur parts.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    East Asians are basically insects

    Can’t agree. I know several Chinese and Koreans personally (they worked in my lab). Each has a clear personality; the variety is equal to that of Whites. Intellectually they also are as different as Whites (from very smart to quite stupid). Didn’t notice anything in their behavior suggesting that it’s hard-wired, like in insects. They value education and knowledge more than Anglos. It’s a cultural thing; the same can be said about Russians or Cubans. So, in my experience, East Asians are no more insect-like than White people.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @AnonfromTN

    Expat scientists would be quite a self-selecting group. For various reasons going back thousands of years (in particular, a culture of cramming and test-taking), conformity seems to have been more strongly selected for in East Asia than in Europe or the Mid-East.

    A good old article on the subject from Our Benevolent Overlord, for anyone who hasn't read it already:
    https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

  347. It seems like the U.S.A. foreign policy establishment is crazily and ferociously hostile to both Russia and China, and wants to neuter both countries. I don’t think, though, that they’re crazy enough to want a war with both countries simultaneously. If that’s the case, then a firm military alliance between Russia and China is imperative for world peace.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Chebyshev

    A lot of things went wrong last time,

    1. Mao always considered his primary competitor to be the Soviets, not the West.

    He said something like "we'll race ahead of our Soviet elder brother to the gates of Full Communism. And when we get there, we'll wait outside the gate for older brother to catch up with us, and for him enter first before us"

    2. Khrushchev adamantly would not back Mao on the Taiwan Question. Putin on the other hand is probably much more amenable to backing Xi.

    But then again PRC maintains good relations with Ukraine.

    3. Sino-American Rapprochement happened very suddenly in the 70's and it could happen again.

  348. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Are you familiar with the history of art? Throughout history, certain faces were considered to be particularly powerful and compelling.
     
    I am mildly familiar with the history of art. Therefore I know the term licentia poetica, or broadly, the freedom granted upon artists. In my personal opinion, you can sometimes judge a nature of life someone has lived on the basis of his face, but certainly not his character. There are many counter-examples of deceiving faces too.

    In Christian theology, the Good, the Beautiful, the True, are one and the same.
     
    In Christian theology, this very Platonic view is not really emphasized (it is more on the level of abstract, ideal values) since that would potentially lead to the heresy of pantheism. Also, the only human being in whom God incarnated was Jesus Christ. Trying to find traces of God in every face would devalue Christ incarnation.

    Perhaps, you are a little defensive because you are not beautiful?
     

    There are different opinion about that, however none says that I am ugly. However, I am sometimes a bit slovenly, so I don't like this dictate of "looking well" all the time- I would feel that I am trying to cheat someone, presenting to him my false nature.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Are you kidding me 🙂 The unity of truth, beauty, and goodness is absolutely central to classical Christianity.

    But it exists in every tradition. In Chinese tradition, it was thought one could not be a good artist without being a morally good man – and before attempting art, one would first strive to morally purify oneself.

    Beauty and Goodness are in the end One – and indeed, might we not speak of an especially fine act of selfness or generosity as “beautiful”? Art, dealing with the Ideal, is essentially moral.

    Also, in classic Christian theology God is indeed “immanent” in everything, most emphatically including humans, although being more than the world it isn’t pantheism – you are channelling a rather impoverished version of modern “Christianity” 🙂

    Indeed, Theosis is developing the spark of God in us so as to achieve union with him.

    I am sure you are not ugly, of course, I was just being facetious. But if you like looking slovenly, you are clearly a moral reprobate 🙂 You have unveiled your spiritual deficiencies to me.

    But it is no matter – all of us can do better. Perhaps, if you morally purify yourself, you will suddenly develop an interest in personal aesthetics 🙂 Or perhaps, if you stop being slovenly, you will suddenly find you are more generous, kind, and noble 🙂

    Try it!

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Classical Christianity does not exist.

    Theosis is Orthodox Christianity doctrine, not a Catholic one.
    I cannot really vouch for Orthodox Christiniaty which is more Platonic than Catholicism, since I do not know it in any systematic way.
    But in Catholicism the highest level a man can aspire to become on account of his own effort is to become a saint. Anything else - like being a mystic - demands some direct intervention of God in your life and such grace cannot be guaranteed in any way: such is, after all, the essence of the Grace of God
    I would also say that in Catholicism God is more transcendent, beyond human comprehension, than immanent which you would need to seek God in human faces.

    BTW, all this "spark of God inside us" theme sometimes hides its occult side.

    Also, I read "beauty" as more aesthetic than moral notion, unlike you as it seems. Morality belongs primarily to the realm of Goodness, especially as it is supposed to be supervised by rather dogmatic Kantian conscience whereas aesthetics is less rich in rules - you see it clearly during studying philosophy, the difference between moral philosophy and aesthetics.

    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like "His Majesty Ship" haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?

    And, well, what about this old trope of "treacherous beauty"...? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil...

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  349. @sudden death
    Mindless useless gossip corner - boomer Madonna is slowly, but surely morphing into another Frank...sorry, Jocelyn Wildenstein:

    https://g.delfi.lt/images/pix/madonna-92457785.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/137074888/wild1_400x400.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    Madonna would be a great movie monster, if they incorporated her own backstory into it.

    Tried to make the story about her getting a younger apprentice, to sell her soul to become top of the pop charts. Some girl in a Catholic School.

    And at some point they could do a crossover with Lady Gaga who calls her fans “little monsters”, like the Wolfman and the Mummy, or Dracula vs. Frankenstein.

  350. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don’t care for Western European civilization – it’s not your “genetic lineage” or “oikumene” – but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it’s one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy – to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.
     
    You don’t understand. Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don't shit where I eat. Western society has given me a lot, much more than I deserve. If I stayed in RusFed I would have probably ended very badly - a violent sociopath hurting people for different idiotic reasons. In the West I studied, created interesting projects, had a family and my beloved kids. I want the West to thrive and be healthy. This is the place where my kids are growing and it's their homeland. I also want Russia to become liberated from the RusFed bad trip and get back to what is best about it. And there is a lot of good in Russian people, they just had it rough for a very long time. You will get my point if and when you will have kids of your own. Stop being a wandering Jew and settle down ! 🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I get your point even now, without settling down or having kids – it’s a fine attitude of gratitude and a desire to develop the good in everything. It’s very lovely.

    But you are very critical of Russia as she is today – is that “shitting where you eat”? No, it’s rather loving the good in her, which means hating the bad. You are also rather critical of the West that has earned your gratitude, as she is today.

    Surely, gratitude and love require us to love the good and hate the bad in the thing we love – and surely, that’s “criticism”. From the perspective of someone who loves our technological civilization, you are an underminer and a destroyer, a treasonous betrayer – someone who lacks gratitude and shits where he eats. You even derive your income from a tech job, for Pete’s sake 🙂

    McDonald’s insipid vision of a uniform society without layers and contradictions – without one part ever striving for the Good and to overcome the bad within it – such that any “criticism” is betrayal and treason and can only be a nefarious attack from outside rather than a call to transcendence, the vision of all unimaginative fascists, is a betrayal of the true glory of European civilization.

    McDonald is not a friend of White people or Western civilization – he is their diminisher. One day you will see that Bashi 🙂 You are big enough.

    As for myself, some of us are meant to be wanderers and rovers and some of are meant to settle…

  351. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Donbas separatists
     
    How the US came into being: North American separatists kicked Brits out of thirteen colonies internationally recognized as parts of the British Empire.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    The US separatists didn’t release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year. This is horrific and probably without precedent. It also must surely dwarf Russian casualties, at least as a proportion of the total fighters. Meaning that Russia has treated the Donbas militias as entirely disposable.

    Ukraine rotates their troops and uses conservative tactics to preserve manpower. Russia also tries to preserve its soldiers, but it seems it threw away an entire generation of Donbas men for no purpose at all and without any sort of care or memorial. Literally nothing.

    Just for that Putin should be shot.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    The US separatists didn’t release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year.
     
    What fake of Ukie propaganda you are referring to? Or maybe you are just raving? There was no such report. Not to mention that a year ago Donbass was two different entities, LPR and DPR, so a there would have been two reports, not one.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  352. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Are you kidding me :) The unity of truth, beauty, and goodness is absolutely central to classical Christianity.

    But it exists in every tradition. In Chinese tradition, it was thought one could not be a good artist without being a morally good man - and before attempting art, one would first strive to morally purify oneself.

    Beauty and Goodness are in the end One - and indeed, might we not speak of an especially fine act of selfness or generosity as "beautiful"? Art, dealing with the Ideal, is essentially moral.

    Also, in classic Christian theology God is indeed "immanent" in everything, most emphatically including humans, although being more than the world it isn't pantheism - you are channelling a rather impoverished version of modern "Christianity" :)

    Indeed, Theosis is developing the spark of God in us so as to achieve union with him.

    I am sure you are not ugly, of course, I was just being facetious. But if you like looking slovenly, you are clearly a moral reprobate :) You have unveiled your spiritual deficiencies to me.

    But it is no matter - all of us can do better. Perhaps, if you morally purify yourself, you will suddenly develop an interest in personal aesthetics :) Or perhaps, if you stop being slovenly, you will suddenly find you are more generous, kind, and noble :)

    Try it!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Classical Christianity does not exist.

    Theosis is Orthodox Christianity doctrine, not a Catholic one.
    I cannot really vouch for Orthodox Christiniaty which is more Platonic than Catholicism, since I do not know it in any systematic way.
    But in Catholicism the highest level a man can aspire to become on account of his own effort is to become a saint. Anything else – like being a mystic – demands some direct intervention of God in your life and such grace cannot be guaranteed in any way: such is, after all, the essence of the Grace of God
    I would also say that in Catholicism God is more transcendent, beyond human comprehension, than immanent which you would need to seek God in human faces.

    BTW, all this “spark of God inside us” theme sometimes hides its occult side.

    Also, I read “beauty” as more aesthetic than moral notion, unlike you as it seems. Morality belongs primarily to the realm of Goodness, especially as it is supposed to be supervised by rather dogmatic Kantian conscience whereas aesthetics is less rich in rules – you see it clearly during studying philosophy, the difference between moral philosophy and aesthetics.

    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like “His Majesty Ship” haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?

    And, well, what about this old trope of “treacherous beauty”…? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil…

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Ok, but Catholicism is already the advent of the Great Bifurcation. Perhaps I should really call it "early Christianity", but I think the first few centuries can legitimately be called "classical". Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.

    The distinction between beauty and goodness is part of the proto-modern culture of sharp and fast - and artificial - distinctions that culminated in the hard categories of science.

    Distinguishing beauty and goodness can be useful for conceptualizing some things, but they are both manifestations of an underlying unity and have always been understood this way in classical cultures.

    We call an especially fine moral action - an act of loyalty, self sacrifice, heroism - "beautiful", instinctively recognizing it's aesthetic dimension.

    And when we see beauty, it is always a call to the Ideal - always a summons to a realm beyond the sordid realities of the quotidian, is it not so? And the Ideal clearly is a moral realm.

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil? Evil is always something disharmonious and disfigured, something that has "gone wrong", that expresses corruption, a fall from the Ideal - and corruption is not beautiful.

    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty - but precisely to that extent it is Good :) And even evil, is really a groping towards the Good, misunderstood.


    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like “His Majesty Ship” haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?
     
    I like that, perhaps on my next Unz avatar I shall call myself His Majesty Ship - yes, I think I will :)

    The creation of beauty may involve labor and self sacrifice - that has always been the case - and such devotion may contribute to the moral worth of the act. In this realm, at least.

    And, well, what about this old trope of “treacherous beauty”…? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil…
     
    Can it, though? Give an example...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  353. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Classical Christianity does not exist.

    Theosis is Orthodox Christianity doctrine, not a Catholic one.
    I cannot really vouch for Orthodox Christiniaty which is more Platonic than Catholicism, since I do not know it in any systematic way.
    But in Catholicism the highest level a man can aspire to become on account of his own effort is to become a saint. Anything else - like being a mystic - demands some direct intervention of God in your life and such grace cannot be guaranteed in any way: such is, after all, the essence of the Grace of God
    I would also say that in Catholicism God is more transcendent, beyond human comprehension, than immanent which you would need to seek God in human faces.

    BTW, all this "spark of God inside us" theme sometimes hides its occult side.

    Also, I read "beauty" as more aesthetic than moral notion, unlike you as it seems. Morality belongs primarily to the realm of Goodness, especially as it is supposed to be supervised by rather dogmatic Kantian conscience whereas aesthetics is less rich in rules - you see it clearly during studying philosophy, the difference between moral philosophy and aesthetics.

    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like "His Majesty Ship" haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?

    And, well, what about this old trope of "treacherous beauty"...? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil...

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Ok, but Catholicism is already the advent of the Great Bifurcation. Perhaps I should really call it “early Christianity”, but I think the first few centuries can legitimately be called “classical”. Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.

    The distinction between beauty and goodness is part of the proto-modern culture of sharp and fast – and artificial – distinctions that culminated in the hard categories of science.

    Distinguishing beauty and goodness can be useful for conceptualizing some things, but they are both manifestations of an underlying unity and have always been understood this way in classical cultures.

    We call an especially fine moral action – an act of loyalty, self sacrifice, heroism – “beautiful”, instinctively recognizing it’s aesthetic dimension.

    And when we see beauty, it is always a call to the Ideal – always a summons to a realm beyond the sordid realities of the quotidian, is it not so? And the Ideal clearly is a moral realm.

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil? Evil is always something disharmonious and disfigured, something that has “gone wrong”, that expresses corruption, a fall from the Ideal – and corruption is not beautiful.

    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty – but precisely to that extent it is Good 🙂 And even evil, is really a groping towards the Good, misunderstood.

    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like “His Majesty Ship” haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?

    I like that, perhaps on my next Unz avatar I shall call myself His Majesty Ship – yes, I think I will 🙂

    The creation of beauty may involve labor and self sacrifice – that has always been the case – and such devotion may contribute to the moral worth of the act. In this realm, at least.

    And, well, what about this old trope of “treacherous beauty”…? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil…

    Can it, though? Give an example…

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.
     
    Not really. There was no theosis in early Christianity, there was discussion about the nature of Christ in which monophysitism and arrianism created two poles.

    BTW, what do you mean by "The Great Bifurcation"...?


    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty – but precisely to that extent it is Good"
     
    So do you ascribe to Augustinian theory that evil is the lack of good (privatio boni)?

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil?
     

    Well, an example classical, Biblical so to say: a beautiful prostitute

    Can it, though? Give an example…
     
    1) A beautiful woman can be a treacherous gold-digger or a faithful, soothing wife.
    2) The voice of siren/mermaid represents treacherous beauty.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  354. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    With your worldview, it is understandable that you see it in a negative view
     
    I did not see it in the negative light back then in the early 90ies. Remember, I was growing up with Strugatsky brothers' books in my hands. We believed in a better future, we really did. We believed into what Strugatskys named "vertical progress", we had no reason to doubt the Utopia was right around the corner, peace in our time and all. Projet Aelita was being prepared for a launch towards Mars in 1998. Solar System was ours to colonize and terraform.

    Perestroika was the first warning call, then 1993 massacre the second and 1998 default the third. Still, I was into transhumanism back then, studying in a technology field that connected me to these types of things (although I have made my best since to distance myself as much as possible). I read the French translation of Schizmatrix in 1993 and it marked my young graduate student imagination forever.

    I was a techno-optimist and thought that Shafarevich might have been mistaken, that the collapse of the Soviet Union was simply a local problem, the result of the Soviet / Russian elites corruption and incompetence. It is not, humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological development. It is right now becoming evident in the West and in China/Japan/South Korea.

    Humans become alienated and stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo. The Technosphere is not a place for us to thrive. And Nick Land and Sadie Plant from the CCRU were among the first to understand that. It was before Nick Böstrom wrote about the existential risks to the human civilization that are inevitably coming our way on our development towards the Singularity (don't think we would get there anyway). It was before Gibson wrote about the Jackpot. It was of course well before Moynihan writing his X Risk book about the potential human extinction.

    Reading Nick Land was one of the first pieces of the puzzle that fell in place and helped me get out of the Technosphere - worship that I and my friends at the time were engaged into. There's no God in the Machine, but there might be ghosts and not the ones we would ever enjoy meeting. Fanged Noumena...

    God and Salvation are to be found inside human mind and inside it only. BTW Nick Land is currently writing frequently about God. Of course, he is doing it in his usual flippant manner, but being an intelligent man that he is, he probably understands that there are not many ways to get out of here "spiritually alive". And as he has written himself about the way our civilisation is evolving: "nothing human makes it out of the near future".

    Replies: @Dmitry

    stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo

    The zoo, where the previously free animals, have been captured and then reproduced to such exponential numbers they can start to live in small cells on top of each other.

    humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological

    Well, there are around 20,000 polar bears in the world today. This is similar to the number of humans in most of human history, that were living in this planet. Sometimes they can walk across days, without seeing another bear.

    But what if the polar bears would reproduce to 8 billion, live in small boxes above each other, order industrialized fish by pushing on a screen?

    Instead of swimming in the ocean, they are watching images of a short on screen, talking about killing the other group of bears, because of imaginary labels about “nationalist bears”, “Heterodox feminist bears”.

    Instead of talking about the wind or the snow, they become hypnotized with strange words and labels that don’t correspond to anything in the real world. Instead of the open sky and pure earth, their environment looks like experiments of someone for building an ant colony.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Dmitry

    I don't think high density living arrangements bother most women. In general, people are not solitary introverts and being surrounded by others is not a burden for them.

    They are also not gigantic carnivores!

    In the US, people who criticize the high density in Russian cities do not appreciate how harsh the winters can be. For a given amount of cost, high density arrangements seem a lot more achievable.

    What housing configuration is standard in major Russian agricultural areas?

  355. @A123
    @Greasy William

    The two previous Russian pushes have been hampered logistics. Why try something over ambitious... Again?

    Turning Kharkiv into a pile of uninhabitable rubble would be demoralizing and present straightforward logistics. It could easily be something else. I am not even offering up Kharkiv as a "prediction". The expectations should be bland, supportable, and good on force preservation.

    Remember, Time is on Putin's side. The long-term strategy is forcing Kiev aggression to expend resources faster than they can be replaced. Victory by bankruptcy is more available & less wasteful.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?

    I think these captives break down into several groups:

    1) Committed NeoNazi-types, including a few possible “crimes against humanity” candidates
    2) Power brokers arrested for conspiring against someone or another
    3) Combat troops
    4) Simple criminals.

    I wonder if some of the recent Russian manpower build up is intended to have enough manpower in terms of military police and others to deal with this aspect of the SMO.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?
     
    I am envisioning a new border relatively aligned to the current combat line. Most of the potential prisoners have either already left, or will go with the Ukie Maximalist troops when they flee.

    There will be relatively few on the "wrong" side of the line. And, they will be largely non-threatening. No one is going to take an 80+ year old widower away from where his wife has been laid to rest.
    ___

    Reconstruction is a different issue. The less land Russia takes, the more affordable rebuilding is.

    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @sudden death

  356. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    The US separatists didn't release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year. This is horrific and probably without precedent. It also must surely dwarf Russian casualties, at least as a proportion of the total fighters. Meaning that Russia has treated the Donbas militias as entirely disposable.

    Ukraine rotates their troops and uses conservative tactics to preserve manpower. Russia also tries to preserve its soldiers, but it seems it threw away an entire generation of Donbas men for no purpose at all and without any sort of care or memorial. Literally nothing.

    Just for that Putin should be shot.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The US separatists didn’t release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year.

    What fake of Ukie propaganda you are referring to? Or maybe you are just raving? There was no such report. Not to mention that a year ago Donbass was two different entities, LPR and DPR, so a there would have been two reports, not one.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    https://ombudsman-dnr.ru/obzor-soczialno-gumanitarnoj-situaczii-slozhivshejsya-na-territorii-doneczkoj-narodnoj-respubliki-vsledstvie-voennyh-dejstvij-v-period-s-04-po-11-noyabrya-2022-g/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

  357. @songbird
    @A123


    It is now near essential in some areas if one has dogs.
     
    Yes, I'll bet one of the biggest influences behind it was leash law. My father used to have a dog, and when he was drafted, it used to go to visit all his friends, looking for him.

    Leash laws must have had some strange and unintended effects on society. Wonder if so many people would despair, if someone's golden retriever was running around visiting everyone. Probably wouldn't be so many pitbulls. Maybe, coyotes? And perhaps some dogs would have bitten the worst of the freaks, and so discouraged them.

    @Mr. Hack
    Reminds me something of Osama's compound in Abbottabad.

    I suppose it makes sense for the area, but it does not make my heart sing like an old mossy stone wall.

    Replies: @A123

    Leash laws must have had some strange and unintended effects on society. Wonder if so many people would despair, if someone’s golden retriever was running around visiting everyone.

    Something is defiantly lost…

    Tight leash laws make things like this virtually impossible.

     

     

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: songbird
  358. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    The US separatists didn’t release an official and never retracted report on causalties, claiming they themselves had sustained 50%, as the Donbas separatists did last year.
     
    What fake of Ukie propaganda you are referring to? Or maybe you are just raving? There was no such report. Not to mention that a year ago Donbass was two different entities, LPR and DPR, so a there would have been two reports, not one.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Unfortunately, because of internet censorship by my university, I cannot open this: the whole .ru domain is censored out. In an of itself this is very informative. You can defend the truth with arguments, but a lie can only be defended by censorship. So, whoever practices censorship thereby acknowledges that the narrative so defended is a lie.

    I will open it from my home computer and respond later.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I understand that most people on Earth cannot read Russian. What I don’t understand is why a person who obviously cannot read and comprehend Russian pretends that s/he/it can and claims things that are not in the document referenced. Nothing you claimed is true. No wonder that nothing you say is supported by the linked document.

    Read things in languages you understand. Don’t pretend that you understand numerous languages you don’t know. Russian is one of those. End of story.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  359. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    stop reproducing exactly as some animal species do in a zoo
     
    The zoo, where the previously free animals, have been captured and then reproduced to such exponential numbers they can start to live in small cells on top of each other.

    https://i.imgur.com/mNldKkp.png


    humans are simply incompatible with too high a level of technological
     
    Well, there are around 20,000 polar bears in the world today. This is similar to the number of humans in most of human history, that were living in this planet. Sometimes they can walk across days, without seeing another bear.

    But what if the polar bears would reproduce to 8 billion, live in small boxes above each other, order industrialized fish by pushing on a screen?

    Instead of swimming in the ocean, they are watching images of a short on screen, talking about killing the other group of bears, because of imaginary labels about "nationalist bears", "Heterodox feminist bears".

    Instead of talking about the wind or the snow, they become hypnotized with strange words and labels that don't correspond to anything in the real world. Instead of the open sky and pure earth, their environment looks like experiments of someone for building an ant colony.
    https://i.imgur.com/ovr6TNo.jpg

    https://img.pervo.ru/uploads/posts/2019-04/87980789709-pervoru-4680.jpg

    Replies: @QCIC

    I don’t think high density living arrangements bother most women. In general, people are not solitary introverts and being surrounded by others is not a burden for them.

    They are also not gigantic carnivores!

    In the US, people who criticize the high density in Russian cities do not appreciate how harsh the winters can be. For a given amount of cost, high density arrangements seem a lot more achievable.

    What housing configuration is standard in major Russian agricultural areas?

  360. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Ok, but Catholicism is already the advent of the Great Bifurcation. Perhaps I should really call it "early Christianity", but I think the first few centuries can legitimately be called "classical". Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.

    The distinction between beauty and goodness is part of the proto-modern culture of sharp and fast - and artificial - distinctions that culminated in the hard categories of science.

    Distinguishing beauty and goodness can be useful for conceptualizing some things, but they are both manifestations of an underlying unity and have always been understood this way in classical cultures.

    We call an especially fine moral action - an act of loyalty, self sacrifice, heroism - "beautiful", instinctively recognizing it's aesthetic dimension.

    And when we see beauty, it is always a call to the Ideal - always a summons to a realm beyond the sordid realities of the quotidian, is it not so? And the Ideal clearly is a moral realm.

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil? Evil is always something disharmonious and disfigured, something that has "gone wrong", that expresses corruption, a fall from the Ideal - and corruption is not beautiful.

    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty - but precisely to that extent it is Good :) And even evil, is really a groping towards the Good, misunderstood.


    But tell me, HMS (when I was a child I had a certain interest in ships and HMS sounds for me like “His Majesty Ship” haha) what is beautiful in daily ironing your shirt and pants to look nicely etc? Are you doing that on your own or is it provided to you? In other words, it is a chore or pure pleasure of coordinating colours in your case?
     
    I like that, perhaps on my next Unz avatar I shall call myself His Majesty Ship - yes, I think I will :)

    The creation of beauty may involve labor and self sacrifice - that has always been the case - and such devotion may contribute to the moral worth of the act. In this realm, at least.

    And, well, what about this old trope of “treacherous beauty”…? Good cannot be evil, but beauty apparently can be either good or evil…
     
    Can it, though? Give an example...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.

    Not really. There was no theosis in early Christianity, there was discussion about the nature of Christ in which monophysitism and arrianism created two poles.

    BTW, what do you mean by “The Great Bifurcation”…?

    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty – but precisely to that extent it is Good”

    So do you ascribe to Augustinian theory that evil is the lack of good (privatio boni)?

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil?

    Well, an example classical, Biblical so to say: a beautiful prostitute

    Can it, though? Give an example…

    1) A beautiful woman can be a treacherous gold-digger or a faithful, soothing wife.
    2) The voice of siren/mermaid represents treacherous beauty.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    First of all, I wouldn't call a prostitute evil, and I don't think the Bible does either. Jesus hung out with prostitutes.

    But in all your examples, it isn't the evil itself that is beautiful - evil and beauty are distinct but coexist side by side. I did agree that evil can coexist with beauty, but to that extent it is Good. In my examples of moral actions like self sacrifice, generosity, heroism, the moral actions themselves are beautiful - they don't merely coexist with beauty, they are co-identical with it, they manifest it, they are it.

    Likewise with beauty that is used for treachery - two distinct qualities side by side.

    In other words, you are describing "mixed" situations in which beauty and evil coexist as distinct qualities - for that matter, there can exist "mixed" situations where good and evil coexist side by side, and they are clearly opposites!

    But what I'm claiming is that goodness and beauty have a "co-identity" - and I wanted you to show me a situation where evil is beauty, not just exists alongside it. And that cannot be done :)

    As for the Great Bifurcation, I mean the path Western Europe set out on that took it beyond all the classical cultures into uncharted territory that culminated in modernity and nihilism.

  361. @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Most revolutionary’s come from the comfortable middle to upper middle class – where the pinch of economic necessity is lessened enough for more “boutique” concerns to come to the fore.

    True losers are either demoralized and demotivated or too occupied with the struggle for existence.
     
    You can definitely observe this in Iran and east Asia where relatively privileged university students are heavily engaged in potential revolutions. Children of the officer corps are in the mixture, which places front line police/troops in a terrible bind.

    In the Israeli conflict, most Palestinian terrorists are well off middle class types who are bored with bourgeois life and want “meaning”.
     
    Sorry. Largely incorrect. Let me illustrate:

    In Muslim occupied Gaza much of the problem comes from the cycle of "Bread & Circuses". The underclass are not capable of work, get bread from the UNRWA dole, and then look for circuses to last them until the next handout. Futile riots & demonstrations are ways to idly fill time. Ultimately, it results in active avoidance of anything with meaning or purpose.

    The Hamas officials in Gaza are not revolutionaries. They are the establishment middle class types. The organizers want to make sure that the idle poor do not come after the true source of the problem. Instead they manipulate the malcontents to do stupid and self destructive things, such as marching on a secure border. Ultimately, this will backfire on the Muslim abusers who are keeping their coreligionists down.

    Fatah deception and self enrichment in the west Bank has similar themes and methods. The concept of revolution has been co-opted by the establishment. The fundamentally fake non-revolution keeps current Muslim leadership in power and mammon.

    Today in the West, the right wing revolutionary sentiment is not among poor people but rather among well off middle class types who feel the current system has cut them off from all sources of self esteem and meaning. They feel massively disesteemed.

     

    This might not fit well for the U.S. Which revolution are you talking about?

    SJW and Antifa revolutionaries that have become the establishment fit this concept. However, the action wing does not grasp that the revolution is over and they have won. Or, if you prefer, the revolutionaries are now in the "turning on each other" stage that follows many uprisings.

    MAGA is effectively a broad based counter revolutionary movement with lower, middle, and even some upper class support. An elite revolutionary minority obtained power and screwed things up. The desire for jobs and MAGA Reindustrialization is much better grounded than fringe ideologues.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    In the US, I meant the right-wing discontent one is seeing all over the place now – I think it’s a function of some people finding no sources of meaning or esteem in our culture unless you buy into certain narratives of progress and technology. Those narratives monopolize the sources of esteem and meaning, but if you can’t buy into them, our culture offers you little.

    It isn’t about being an economic loser – these people are no worse off than many who buy into those narratives.

    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.

    Dmitry, channeling for the moment his materialist-determinist Marxist persona to atone for his brief foray into spirituality last month and restore balance to the Force, was trying to establish that economic success or lack of it was the determining factor in revolutionary sentiment, that familiar and banal 20th century trope that has been widely disproven too many times to count, but still seems destined to linger on as some sort of ghostly wraith well into the 21st century to confuse and mislead.

    I, remaining true to type and maintaining consistency, deployed my usual explanatory principle of intangible psycho-spiritul factors into the field to do battle with Dmitry’s old and shopworn principles – which, I believed they routed.

    • Replies: @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.
     
    Yes... However.... The purpose of the violence is NOT revolution.

    The agitation is crafted as distraction. The Muslim ruling class, especially in Gaza, does not want a revolution against them. Thus, they foment meaningless and futile "circuses" to fill time between free "bread" handouts.

    With unemployment at ~50%, the average potential Muslim "worker" does no work. Possibly they perform some poorly paid under the table activities that do not interfere with eligibility for the UNRWA dole.

    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  362. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    As far as I understand, Bashi, you don’t care for Western European civilization – it’s not your “genetic lineage” or “oikumene” – but for those of us who, despite criticism, think it’s one of the most significant movements of the Spirit of mankind even if it ended in tragedy – to see such a glorious tale reduced to such insipid dimensions is a scandal.
     
    You don’t understand. Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don't shit where I eat. Western society has given me a lot, much more than I deserve. If I stayed in RusFed I would have probably ended very badly - a violent sociopath hurting people for different idiotic reasons. In the West I studied, created interesting projects, had a family and my beloved kids. I want the West to thrive and be healthy. This is the place where my kids are growing and it's their homeland. I also want Russia to become liberated from the RusFed bad trip and get back to what is best about it. And there is a lot of good in Russian people, they just had it rough for a very long time. You will get my point if and when you will have kids of your own. Stop being a wandering Jew and settle down ! 🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Unlike the shlimazel McDonald was writing about, I don’t shit where I eat.

    McDonald’s books are not bad but he has a really autistic take on something I can explain in one of these text boxes.

    There are enough Jews that by sticking together everybody notices.
    There are few enough Jews that they have to stick together.

    It really ain’t much more complicated than that.

    Since they aren’t studying Hebrew any more and they are marrying outside the tribe the problem we all seem to have will take care of itself eventually and in 500 years if there are still people and still historians a lot of them may well wonder what all the fuss was about.

  363. @QCIC
    @A123

    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?

    I think these captives break down into several groups:

    1) Committed NeoNazi-types, including a few possible "crimes against humanity" candidates
    2) Power brokers arrested for conspiring against someone or another
    3) Combat troops
    4) Simple criminals.

    I wonder if some of the recent Russian manpower build up is intended to have enough manpower in terms of military police and others to deal with this aspect of the SMO.

    Replies: @A123

    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?

    I am envisioning a new border relatively aligned to the current combat line. Most of the potential prisoners have either already left, or will go with the Ukie Maximalist troops when they flee.

    There will be relatively few on the “wrong” side of the line. And, they will be largely non-threatening. No one is going to take an 80+ year old widower away from where his wife has been laid to rest.
    ___

    Reconstruction is a different issue. The less land Russia takes, the more affordable rebuilding is.

    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    Unfortunately, if they settle for the line you mention this will happen again in a few years.

    , @sudden death
    @A123


    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.
     
    Repeating for all to see again how technically not entirely leveled sections far from Azovstal in Mariupol looked after "careful protection" by RF:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9HgZv4lk_o

    btw, hypothetically it would be interesting to dig out some possibly remaining fragments for forensic analysis at 2.20 min in video, where large post-explosive cavity is seen in place of a former playground near multi storey apartment building. In theory it probably could be possible to determine from those remaining fragments what kind of thing really fell in there - dumb airbomb, rocket or very large caliber shell.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  364. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Initially, what is now Orthodoxy was universal.
     
    Not really. There was no theosis in early Christianity, there was discussion about the nature of Christ in which monophysitism and arrianism created two poles.

    BTW, what do you mean by "The Great Bifurcation"...?


    Of course, evil can to some extent have beauty – but precisely to that extent it is Good"
     
    So do you ascribe to Augustinian theory that evil is the lack of good (privatio boni)?

    Can you give an example of beautiful evil?
     

    Well, an example classical, Biblical so to say: a beautiful prostitute

    Can it, though? Give an example…
     
    1) A beautiful woman can be a treacherous gold-digger or a faithful, soothing wife.
    2) The voice of siren/mermaid represents treacherous beauty.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    First of all, I wouldn’t call a prostitute evil, and I don’t think the Bible does either. Jesus hung out with prostitutes.

    But in all your examples, it isn’t the evil itself that is beautiful – evil and beauty are distinct but coexist side by side. I did agree that evil can coexist with beauty, but to that extent it is Good. In my examples of moral actions like self sacrifice, generosity, heroism, the moral actions themselves are beautiful – they don’t merely coexist with beauty, they are co-identical with it, they manifest it, they are it.

    Likewise with beauty that is used for treachery – two distinct qualities side by side.

    In other words, you are describing “mixed” situations in which beauty and evil coexist as distinct qualities – for that matter, there can exist “mixed” situations where good and evil coexist side by side, and they are clearly opposites!

    But what I’m claiming is that goodness and beauty have a “co-identity” – and I wanted you to show me a situation where evil is beauty, not just exists alongside it. And that cannot be done 🙂

    As for the Great Bifurcation, I mean the path Western Europe set out on that took it beyond all the classical cultures into uncharted territory that culminated in modernity and nihilism.

  365. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    With the kind of opposition that is today, it’s possible the current system has quite a strong “immune system”.
     
    Current Western societies seem to be the fruit of a number of social/cultural revolutions; the sexual revolution, feminism and the emancipation of women, the abandonment of religion and secularisation, decolonisation and the developing demographic revolution.

    They are all fairly recent or still underway. I think you can see in each case the revolution has been quite successful, and its beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies. These may also only really exist in a nascent state at this point, I think they are what Bashi was pointing to.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Beckow, @Dmitry

    Western societies.. social/cultural revolutions;

    Where the “social/cultural”, means not real revolution, but changing of external packaging.

    I would say the Western society is the derivation of the late 18th century revolution, where later revolution has been defeated.

    But this included successful political engineering, as the later revolutionary opportunity is slowly reduced by increasing the quantity of power and comfort and selectively feeding to people below. Eventually you are recruiting the stronger parts of the revolutionary classes to the bourgeoisie. An example, like Sweden or Norway, where everyone is nowadays middle class, it’s like communism, but bourgeoisie not the proletariat are the winners.

    So, Tupac, before he was killed 1996, says “they are not ready for a black president” (in the revolutionary song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfF8jMN-2CM. which has the phrases like “instead of war on poverty, they got a war on drugs”). But in 2009, there is already a black president.

    However, it is not a “black president” as Tupac would write, but the middle class lawyer, who represents only the life of middle class comfort in the gated community, and would not threat the rulers with a “war on poverty” (Obama is not even Bernie Sanders) that the “black president” (i.e. someone from the revolutionary class) was supposed to include.

    beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies

    Even slight meritocracy as today, implies beneficiaries are correlated to people with the higher “human capital” in the middle class career perspective. But because the wealth and comfort is so large in the Western economies, there is a situation where most of the adequate population have high material comfort. It’s often a situation where there are more good jobs than people to recruit. That’s people are complaining in some industries, that unemployment is “too low”.

    Current system is selecting for the revolutionary population of inadequate people (from career perspective), people with high disagreeability (which prevents teamwork, that is necessary for revolution) etc, while stealing the stronger people for its own class. This post-Washington or post-Bastille society, seems like a very clever recycling machine, that converts its enemies to waste products.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    I would say the Western society is the derivation of the late 18th century revolution, where later revolution has been defeated.
     
    I tend to agree about the 1789 Revolution remaining the key one for most Western countries.

    But this included successful political engineering, as the later revolutionary opportunity is slowly reduced by increasing the quantity of power and comfort and selectively feeding to people below. Eventually you are recruiting the stronger parts of the revolutionary classes to the bourgeoisie. An example, like Sweden or Norway, where everyone is nowadays middle class, it’s like communism, but bourgeoisie not the proletariat are the winners.
     
    I also got the impression this is what happened, there were scares at different times (like the years after the end of WW1 or Spain in 1936) but this strategy was successful. You can see it quite clearly in Britain with the gradual expansion of the electoral franchise and the incorporation of the Labour Party into the political system. The end of the process must have been the 1980s-90s, with privatisation, the expansion of home ownership and the closure of a lot of heavy industry.

    Current system is selecting for the revolutionary population of inadequate people (from career perspective), people with high disagreeability (which prevents teamwork, that is necessary for revolution) etc, while stealing the stronger people for its own class.
     
    Around Christmas I was reading some Georges Sorel and I was thinking that the fact that the revolutionary class he was relying on, the industrial proletariat, has mostly disappeared from the system now is quite important. Looking back to the 19th century, maybe to the lives of my grandparents even, what he was saying about the potential of this class to regenerate society was idealistic but more plausible. The shift in Western economies away from industry seems to have prevented any replacement emerging.

    At the moment I wonder if this strategy may end up proving too successful, where the bourgeois spirit gets too strong and starts to alienate younger people, as Bashi was writing about. The way bureaucracy focused identity politics seems to have taken over on the left is not encouraging here.

  366. @A123
    @QCIC


    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?
     
    I am envisioning a new border relatively aligned to the current combat line. Most of the potential prisoners have either already left, or will go with the Ukie Maximalist troops when they flee.

    There will be relatively few on the "wrong" side of the line. And, they will be largely non-threatening. No one is going to take an 80+ year old widower away from where his wife has been laid to rest.
    ___

    Reconstruction is a different issue. The less land Russia takes, the more affordable rebuilding is.

    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @sudden death

    Unfortunately, if they settle for the line you mention this will happen again in a few years.

  367. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    In the US, I meant the right-wing discontent one is seeing all over the place now - I think it's a function of some people finding no sources of meaning or esteem in our culture unless you buy into certain narratives of progress and technology. Those narratives monopolize the sources of esteem and meaning, but if you can't buy into them, our culture offers you little.

    It isn't about being an economic loser - these people are no worse off than many who buy into those narratives.

    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.

    Dmitry, channeling for the moment his materialist-determinist Marxist persona to atone for his brief foray into spirituality last month and restore balance to the Force, was trying to establish that economic success or lack of it was the determining factor in revolutionary sentiment, that familiar and banal 20th century trope that has been widely disproven too many times to count, but still seems destined to linger on as some sort of ghostly wraith well into the 21st century to confuse and mislead.

    I, remaining true to type and maintaining consistency, deployed my usual explanatory principle of intangible psycho-spiritul factors into the field to do battle with Dmitry's old and shopworn principles - which, I believed they routed.

    Replies: @A123

    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.

    Yes… However…. The purpose of the violence is NOT revolution.

    The agitation is crafted as distraction. The Muslim ruling class, especially in Gaza, does not want a revolution against them. Thus, they foment meaningless and futile “circuses” to fill time between free “bread” handouts.

    With unemployment at ~50%, the average potential Muslim “worker” does no work. Possibly they perform some poorly paid under the table activities that do not interfere with eligibility for the UNRWA dole.

    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    Ah, I see what you're saying - I don't think I understood you before.

    But I still think you're wrong. The fact of the matter is those guys dying in gunfights with the IDF - I think 5 were killed today - are reasonably well off guys living comfortable lives, not societies "losers".

    They are dying for respect, self esteem, a sense of meaning - not economics. And this is in the West Bank where there is a genuine economy and a high standard of living - Gaza fits your picture more, but still.

    Of course, if they laid down their guns and made peace the economic situation of all the Palestinian territories would massively improve. Real wealth would pour in.

    This fight isn't about economics - it is about "intangibles", and always has been.


    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.
     
    Well now, if you tie UBI to keeping some conflict alive, then maybe :) But let's not do that when we - inevitably - introduce UBI.

    Replies: @A123

  368. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    https://ombudsman-dnr.ru/obzor-soczialno-gumanitarnoj-situaczii-slozhivshejsya-na-territorii-doneczkoj-narodnoj-respubliki-vsledstvie-voennyh-dejstvij-v-period-s-04-po-11-noyabrya-2022-g/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    Unfortunately, because of internet censorship by my university, I cannot open this: the whole .ru domain is censored out. In an of itself this is very informative. You can defend the truth with arguments, but a lie can only be defended by censorship. So, whoever practices censorship thereby acknowledges that the narrative so defended is a lie.

    I will open it from my home computer and respond later.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN

    Leaves No Shadow is (again) talking complete nonsense. A waste of time for you to read! Probably got deceived by more Ukronazi amoeba-level propaganda deceit claiming a link showing "50% casualties".

    Just as you said, if refers only to Donetsk. military/admin casualties up to 10th November last year ( and its important to remember that the Nazis started ,well, restarted,the war about February 12th last year , it did NOT start on February 24th)....were 3746 dead and 15794 injured. Civilians killed by these vermin bandits were 1031 with 3314 injured. For reasons we both know, Lugansk has not been harmed to that level since the SMO.

    Thank God they started evacuations away from the LoC a month before the start of the war.

  369. Poland now moving away from Kiev (1)

    Polish farmers block roads in protest against grain imports from Ukraine

    Polish farmers believe Ukrainian grain is undercutting their own crops and not finding its way out of the country as expected

    Farmers believe that Ukrainian grain is cheaper because it does not have to meet the standards of grain production that are enforced in Poland. This is why they are demanding the reintroduction of tariffs and limits. They are also asking for full sanitary controls to be exercised in relation to the transport of Ukrainian crops.

    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party, Poland is not in reality a transit country and most of the grain actually stays in Poland. In 2022, the harvest in Poland was good and prices began to fall. She also claimed the grain coming from Ukraine is not from individual farmers but from large food-production companies run by oligarchs exporting hundreds of thousands of tons.

    Yes. It is only the first small step away from Ukie privilege. However, this would have been unthinkable just a few months ago.

    If Poland can step away from Zelensky, anyone can cut the Gordian Knot.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/poland/polish-farmers-block-roads-in-protest-against-grain-imports-from-ukraine/

    • Replies: @AP
    @A123


    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party
     
    This is a rather marginal party (a coalition of a few marginal parties) that has 12 out of 460 seats in the Sejm. Furthermore, it split on the Ukraine issue so perhaps half of its supporters don't support Ukraine.

    Replies: @A123, @Greasy William

  370. @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    In the West Bank and Gaza, the violence on the whole is organized and directed by people who are economically comfortable, even if sometimes they utilize the dis-priveleged. The average Palestinian worker is probably largely apolitical.
     
    Yes... However.... The purpose of the violence is NOT revolution.

    The agitation is crafted as distraction. The Muslim ruling class, especially in Gaza, does not want a revolution against them. Thus, they foment meaningless and futile "circuses" to fill time between free "bread" handouts.

    With unemployment at ~50%, the average potential Muslim "worker" does no work. Possibly they perform some poorly paid under the table activities that do not interfere with eligibility for the UNRWA dole.

    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Ah, I see what you’re saying – I don’t think I understood you before.

    But I still think you’re wrong. The fact of the matter is those guys dying in gunfights with the IDF – I think 5 were killed today – are reasonably well off guys living comfortable lives, not societies “losers”.

    They are dying for respect, self esteem, a sense of meaning – not economics. And this is in the West Bank where there is a genuine economy and a high standard of living – Gaza fits your picture more, but still.

    Of course, if they laid down their guns and made peace the economic situation of all the Palestinian territories would massively improve. Real wealth would pour in.

    This fight isn’t about economics – it is about “intangibles”, and always has been.

    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

    Well now, if you tie UBI to keeping some conflict alive, then maybe 🙂 But let’s not do that when we – inevitably – introduce UBI.

    • Replies: @A123
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak



    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

     

    Well now, if you tie UBI to keeping some conflict alive, then maybe 🙂 But let’s not do that when we – inevitably – introduce UBI.
     
    I have a plan for personal success when UBI is introduced.

    I will create a cartel of ammo vendors that controls the brass & lead ration.

    9mm = me.
    5.56 = me.
    300BLK = me.
    38 ACP = me.
    22LR = me.

    7.62 steel cased... OK there are some things I simply will not do.

    PEACE 😇

  371. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @A123

    Ah, I see what you're saying - I don't think I understood you before.

    But I still think you're wrong. The fact of the matter is those guys dying in gunfights with the IDF - I think 5 were killed today - are reasonably well off guys living comfortable lives, not societies "losers".

    They are dying for respect, self esteem, a sense of meaning - not economics. And this is in the West Bank where there is a genuine economy and a high standard of living - Gaza fits your picture more, but still.

    Of course, if they laid down their guns and made peace the economic situation of all the Palestinian territories would massively improve. Real wealth would pour in.

    This fight isn't about economics - it is about "intangibles", and always has been.


    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.
     
    Well now, if you tie UBI to keeping some conflict alive, then maybe :) But let's not do that when we - inevitably - introduce UBI.

    Replies: @A123

    Gaza is a cautionary tale why UBI is a really bad idea.

    Well now, if you tie UBI to keeping some conflict alive, then maybe 🙂 But let’s not do that when we – inevitably – introduce UBI.

    I have a plan for personal success when UBI is introduced.

    I will create a cartel of ammo vendors that controls the brass & lead ration.

    9mm = me.
    5.56 = me.
    300BLK = me.
    38 ACP = me.
    22LR = me.

    7.62 steel cased… OK there are some things I simply will not do.

    PEACE 😇

  372. @A123
    Poland now moving away from Kiev (1)

    Polish farmers block roads in protest against grain imports from Ukraine

    Polish farmers believe Ukrainian grain is undercutting their own crops and not finding its way out of the country as expected

     

    Farmers believe that Ukrainian grain is cheaper because it does not have to meet the standards of grain production that are enforced in Poland. This is why they are demanding the reintroduction of tariffs and limits. They are also asking for full sanitary controls to be exercised in relation to the transport of Ukrainian crops.

    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party, Poland is not in reality a transit country and most of the grain actually stays in Poland. In 2022, the harvest in Poland was good and prices began to fall. She also claimed the grain coming from Ukraine is not from individual farmers but from large food-production companies run by oligarchs exporting hundreds of thousands of tons.
     
    Yes. It is only the first small step away from Ukie privilege. However, this would have been unthinkable just a few months ago.

    If Poland can step away from Zelensky, anyone can cut the Gordian Knot.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://rmx.news/poland/polish-farmers-block-roads-in-protest-against-grain-imports-from-ukraine/

    Replies: @AP

    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party

    This is a rather marginal party (a coalition of a few marginal parties) that has 12 out of 460 seats in the Sejm. Furthermore, it split on the Ukraine issue so perhaps half of its supporters don’t support Ukraine.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AP




    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party
     
    Yes. It is only the first small step away from Ukie privilege. However, this would have been unthinkable just a few months ago.
     
    This is a rather marginal party
     
    Yes. That is what I suggested.

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step

    Or, if you prefer...

    Mighty oaks from little acorns grow

    PEACE 😇
    , @Greasy William
    @AP

    China launched a military invasion on the US, would you fight for the US like the Ukrainians are fighting for Ukraine?

    Replies: @AP

  373. @AP
    @A123


    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party
     
    This is a rather marginal party (a coalition of a few marginal parties) that has 12 out of 460 seats in the Sejm. Furthermore, it split on the Ukraine issue so perhaps half of its supporters don't support Ukraine.

    Replies: @A123, @Greasy William

    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party

    Yes. It is only the first small step away from Ukie privilege. However, this would have been unthinkable just a few months ago.

    This is a rather marginal party

    Yes. That is what I suggested.

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step

    Or, if you prefer…

    Mighty oaks from little acorns grow

    PEACE 😇

  374. @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    East Asians are basically insects
     
    Can’t agree. I know several Chinese and Koreans personally (they worked in my lab). Each has a clear personality; the variety is equal to that of Whites. Intellectually they also are as different as Whites (from very smart to quite stupid). Didn’t notice anything in their behavior suggesting that it’s hard-wired, like in insects. They value education and knowledge more than Anglos. It’s a cultural thing; the same can be said about Russians or Cubans. So, in my experience, East Asians are no more insect-like than White people.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    Expat scientists would be quite a self-selecting group. For various reasons going back thousands of years (in particular, a culture of cramming and test-taking), conformity seems to have been more strongly selected for in East Asia than in Europe or the Mid-East.

    A good old article on the subject from Our Benevolent Overlord, for anyone who hasn’t read it already:
    https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

  375. @AP
    @A123


    According to Anna Bryłka, a farmer and politician from the Confederation party
     
    This is a rather marginal party (a coalition of a few marginal parties) that has 12 out of 460 seats in the Sejm. Furthermore, it split on the Ukraine issue so perhaps half of its supporters don't support Ukraine.

    Replies: @A123, @Greasy William

    China launched a military invasion on the US, would you fight for the US like the Ukrainians are fighting for Ukraine?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Greasy William

    I would do something, most likely. I can shoot, but I’m not sure what use a 50 year old without military experience would be. I didn’t go to Ukraine because I have kids in college and a mortgage and can’t quit my job, but if China invaded the country I live in those factors would cease to exist I would be free. Had I gone to Ukraine I would probably have helped in ways that don’t involve soldiering.

    Replies: @sudden death

  376. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Unfortunately, because of internet censorship by my university, I cannot open this: the whole .ru domain is censored out. In an of itself this is very informative. You can defend the truth with arguments, but a lie can only be defended by censorship. So, whoever practices censorship thereby acknowledges that the narrative so defended is a lie.

    I will open it from my home computer and respond later.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    Leaves No Shadow is (again) talking complete nonsense. A waste of time for you to read! Probably got deceived by more Ukronazi amoeba-level propaganda deceit claiming a link showing “50% casualties”.

    Just as you said, if refers only to Donetsk. military/admin casualties up to 10th November last year ( and its important to remember that the Nazis started ,well, restarted,the war about February 12th last year , it did NOT start on February 24th)….were 3746 dead and 15794 injured. Civilians killed by these vermin bandits were 1031 with 3314 injured. For reasons we both know, Lugansk has not been harmed to that level since the SMO.

    Thank God they started evacuations away from the LoC a month before the start of the war.

  377. @AP
    @Yahya

    This seems to me to be an unresolvable tragedy. The Ashkenazim are about 50% European and 50% Semitic by descent; Europe is as much of a historical homeland for them as is Palestine. But in Europe they were almost wiped out, so they settled into their other homeland, which their ancestors had left ~1800 years ago, and meanwhile has had a different population that had lived there for centuries.

    The just thing to do would have been to give the Jews East Prussia, rather than give that to the Soviets. Germany had no right to complain, and the ancient Jewish communities throughout the Middle East would probably have been left alone because there would have been no reason for Muslims to hate or fear them. Maybe Yiddish would have been kept as an official language of this Jewish state on the Baltic. Though I can see how the survivors of the Holocaust would have wanted to move to a place completely different from the one where they has been exterminated. Too bad there were no German-inhabited colonies somewhere warm where a homeland could have been created. Italy was a German ally, but wasn't complicit enough in the Holocaust to deserve the loss and ethnic cleansing of one of its provinces to provide a Jewish homeland (even though Ashkenazim are about as Italian as they are Semitic by descent).

    As for Palestine - what was the religious layout geographically? Could a Christian, Druze and Sephardic Jewish area, a place for Christian and Jewish pilgrims, be attached to Lebanon, or was the Christian population thoroughly intermixed with the Muslim one?

    Replies: @Yahya, @Wokechoke, @A123, @Dmitry

    You have the rational atheist’s attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the “Holy Land”. They have motivation there because it is the “Promised Land” given to Abraham, or “Land of Milk and Honey” carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    Islam’s relation to the conflict, is also just religion. Quantitatively the Israel-Palestinian conflict is small (less people die in the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 75 years, than in Ukraine every 3 months), but qualitatively the conflict is very large. They believe Muhammad climbed to heaven there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra%27_and_Mi%27raj).

    There are also ruins of Crusader castles everywhere, because of centuries of wars of Christian alliances (when those were also a cult) to conquer the “Holy Land”.

    It feels like the area has a weird, religious atmosphere coming. You can’t escape a tense atmosphere. You can almost be expecting scientists will discover unknown magnetic force in the Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps the Mormon UFO buried under the Pyramids.

    Jews East Prussia,

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Part of the society, are people who are more religious than Mormons and the religious sites are essential in their religion. Those religious nationalist people would not live in Prussia.

    @Yayha

    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslim

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple. The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2013&version=NIV

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

    There is internal logic if they assume Israel will rebuild the temple, but the assumptions are not rational – it’s because of what someone wrote in the book a couple thousand years ago.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    You have the rational atheist’s attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the “Holy Land”. They have motivation there because it is the “Promised Land” given to Abraham, or “Land of Milk and Honey” carried to by Moses. That is religion.

     

    I thought that Zionists weren’t particularly religious, and indeed were in conflict with religious Jews.

    Israel was the choice by Zionists from the 19th century because it was the historical homeland and because as a British protectorate it was seen as having a chance to get settled and become a Jewish state. No one would have imagined that East Prussia could be cleared of Germans completely, as had been done.

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.
     
    No, the Jews would want a homeland somewhere, and unlike Birobidzhan East Prussia would offer some architecturally beautiful towns to settle, would be close to the heart of Europe, would have milder climate, etc. And of course it would be fully independent. If this were their only choice they would accept.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.
     
    Too many Arabs all around.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.
     
    This does not have to be true. Apparently, for God "soon" can mean thousands of years - already in prophetic writings, e.g. Habakuk 2:3, it is said I come "soon".

    For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak and not lie. Though it tarry, wait for it, because it will surely come; it will not tarry.

    Therefore, there is reading of Apocalypse/Revelation which spreads the End Times from the destruction of the Temple to basically now. This is supported by the fact that historically there were several end times already eg. millenarism and the time of Crusades. See my comment no:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5790439

    If these past "end times" weren't really final, there are only two possibilities: 1) the End Time did not come yet, 2) The End Time already started a long time ago and is still ongoing.

    For many reasons - control, keeping life going on, keeping open the possibilities of manipulating Scripture - it is (1) which will be popular among churchmen and not (2).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    , @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    Islam’s relation to the conflict, is also just religion.
     
    On the surface, sure. But you are missing the power dynamics behind Muslim support for Palestine. It’s not about scripture but more about Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews. The Islamic world’s focus on reason, science, objectivity and rationality has left it in a deep spiritual void; which it seeks to escape by domineering and bullying behavior.

    But the only lasting solution to their spiritual crisis would be to shift from the right-hemisphere to the left-hemisphere part of the brain; re-establishing the primacy of faith over reason; subjectivity over objectivity; and religion over science.


    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple.
     
    My impression is that there’s a wide range of views within Christianity on the topic of Zionism.

    Catholics and Orthodox Christians don’t seem to much care for it.

    Protestants in Europe are secularized so they don’t care much either; in fact probably support Palestine more than Israel.

    Arab Christians are fairly religious and practice some of the oldest forms of Christianity; but they oppose Israel, perhaps for ethnic more than religious reasons.

    It seems that only the Americano is a staunch supporter of the Zionist project.

    Is this more scriptural in basis or a product of some Anglo ideology of philo-Semitism?

    Why don’t Catholics and Eastern Christians follow scripture in the same manner?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  378. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    I guess if you lean libertarian than maybe you have no fundamental issue with atomization, hyper-individualism, and societal selfishness?
     
    Hyper atomization is a problem but I see that just largely as a function of prosperity, technology and cultural diversity. The former two you can't do anything about I don't believe the 3rd would have happened if not for fiat money. Get rid of fiat money, and cultural diversity will take care of itself once new immigration is shut down and the current non white population groups in the West assimilate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Maybe you are correct and maybe not. It doesn’t really matter though, since those things will be unlikely to happen any time soon. Actually the only mechanism that I can think of to make this happen to any extent is widespread societal collapse, which I would actually be okay with, for a variety of reasons. I suspect we would agree there.

    The real question is what to do in the meantime, since one can’t just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    since one can’t just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.
     
    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years. Once the Yen goes, the Euro goes. Once the Euro goes, the Pound goes. Once the Pound goes, the Dollar goes. Then we will have honest (or at least, less dishonest money) again and society will be fundamentally changed for the better.

    In the meantime, there is nothing to be done other than wait it out.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  379. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William

    Maybe you are correct and maybe not. It doesn't really matter though, since those things will be unlikely to happen any time soon. Actually the only mechanism that I can think of to make this happen to any extent is widespread societal collapse, which I would actually be okay with, for a variety of reasons. I suspect we would agree there.

    The real question is what to do in the meantime, since one can't just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    since one can’t just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.

    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years. Once the Yen goes, the Euro goes. Once the Euro goes, the Pound goes. Once the Pound goes, the Dollar goes. Then we will have honest (or at least, less dishonest money) again and society will be fundamentally changed for the better.

    In the meantime, there is nothing to be done other than wait it out.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William


    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years.
     
    Your use of the jargon fiat shows that you do not understand the process.

    The correct term is debt. The money is borrowed from our children and their children and their children. As long as they are good for it, or presumed good for it there isn't any problem at all. People have been griping your exact gripe for fifty freakin years and it keeps on doing just fine.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  380. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234

    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

    Refusing on point of principle to watch the fantasies of a sick worthless POS from a sick POS telegram site that is high chance a fake anyway ( like much of the claimed “peremoga” are)

    Isn’t the best “resistance” you worthless genuine faggots in Litva showed in 250 years to Russia, literally………holding hands in one big line with other Baltic faggots? Not exactly Stalingrad or Borodino, LOL.

    Why is it always the most worthless scumbags from the most insipid, worthless scumbag countries , who have shown historically the most insipid , worthless resistance to rule by Russia ( enlightenment would be the more accurate description of these periods)……..who are the loudest and most pathetic screamers and inciters about “standing up to Russia”?!!!

    Such is how psychologically messed up the human garbage freaks in the Baltics and Poland are…….I think there is genuine trauma not at the SMO, but that the SMO wasn’t done towards them…..give value to their worthless POS lives.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Gerard1234

    heh, this satisfying pissed off hysteria is the best indicator of you surely having watched that video with all very recently blown up iron bullZ near Ugledar;)

    , @QCIC
    @Gerard1234

    Gerard1234, Welcome back!

  381. @A123
    @QCIC


    Restoration and restructuring of Ukrainian society after the SMO is obviously an important project for Russia.

    For Russia to complete her goals for the SMO, how many prisoners will she need to capture?
     
    I am envisioning a new border relatively aligned to the current combat line. Most of the potential prisoners have either already left, or will go with the Ukie Maximalist troops when they flee.

    There will be relatively few on the "wrong" side of the line. And, they will be largely non-threatening. No one is going to take an 80+ year old widower away from where his wife has been laid to rest.
    ___

    Reconstruction is a different issue. The less land Russia takes, the more affordable rebuilding is.

    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @sudden death

    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.

    Repeating for all to see again how technically not entirely leveled sections far from Azovstal in Mariupol looked after “careful protection” by RF:

    btw, hypothetically it would be interesting to dig out some possibly remaining fragments for forensic analysis at 2.20 min in video, where large post-explosive cavity is seen in place of a former playground near multi storey apartment building. In theory it probably could be possible to determine from those remaining fragments what kind of thing really fell in there – dumb airbomb, rocket or very large caliber shell.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    Ugly socialist era buildings. Fit for earthquakes really.

  382. S says:
    @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    @ Dmitry, if you read my comment carefully, you will see three things 1) I was writing about the time of adulthood of my own kids. That is the next two generations. 2) I was worried about what might (or quite likely would) happen 3) It is not about Revolution that I wrote but about societal collapse of major proportions. The type of situation that William Gibson has sarcastically termed The Jackpot in his latest series of books.

    My reply to Coconuts (whose comments I always appreciate and read very carefully) was initially motivated by the question our friend Bromance of three kingdoms (whose comments I also usually take very seriously) has asked LatW (another of my favorite commenters). I guess that is the necessary background for understanding what I wrote about, the comments about NRx and Ned Land included.

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion. Speaking of which, where's Sylvio ? Didn't see him commenting lately.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @S

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion.

    Ok, I’ll bite, though I’m not sure how ‘interesting’ or ‘valuable’ my opinion might be.

    [MORE]

    First, though I describe here what I see their intentions to be, and I do think mankind as a whole is in some pretty dire straits, it doesn’t neccessarily translate that they will succeed in their aims. It’s not over until the fat lady sings and the best laid plans of mice and men and all that. And people should find some way of resisting, ideally succesfully. [I don’t think either Trump, or Putin, whom I both see as controlled opposition, is the way to go however.]

    Second, I think there’s plenty of responsibility (as opposed to ‘blame’) to share between peoples for the present sad state of things, though, to be sure, some do probably have less responsibility. A Filipino Tagalog tribesman and his power elites certainly have a lot less responsibility than certain other peoples and their power elites for instance.

    I think, broadly, it’s a case of too many poorly leading (though powerful) elites and their hangers on, and too many people either following or tolerating them. It’s not necessarily a majority of ‘elites’ and ‘common’ folks involved in the nefarious activities in either instance.

    As a matter of principle, and my post archives will bear this out if a person wishes to check, if my own non-Jewish north-western Euro people, or a people I am close to in origin, are involved significantly in something, and though not even necessarily the majority involved, I’ll mention them first. This has a way of putting a break to unhealthily, and disempoweringly, blaming other(s) for everything.

    I was raised in the United States.

    Having said that, I think the world was already largely conquered at the latest by about 1900 when the United States and United Kingdom formed their ‘special relationship’, a relationship only just short of an outright political union.

    Since that time, the US/UK has been expanding upon this power and consolidating it via the two world wars, and the current nascent WWIII, ‘mopping up’ as the Anglosphere elites likely see it.

    As background to these events, I believe that possibly as early as circa 1770 that the Capitalist vs Communist, Right vs Left, etc dialectic was conceived in the minds of men within the City of London, this man-made and broadly controlled dialectic being first put into action in the 1776 proto-Capitalist American and 1789 proto-Communist French revolutions, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and probably Benjamin Franklin, having been quite involved in laying the groundwork for both events.

    I believe it was also about 1770, the Seven Years War having concluded very favorably for Britain, and the whole of North America effectively now laying ‘open for the taking’, that, as empires in general are wont to do, a simultaneous decision was made in London to make a final push by the British Empire for the obtainment of total world power.

    The 1776 American Revolution I believe represented a strategic false split between the United States and the British Empire, so that Britain would avoid the Spanish Empire’s experience of attracting the unwanted hostile attentions of competing European nations which were forever attempting to block Spain’s efforts to consolidate and expand upon it’s power, as Spain was perceived as being ‘too big to be allowed to succeed’.

    Once the ‘former colonists’ had ‘on the sly’ and ‘out of the spotlight’ succesfully consolidated the ‘game changer’ of the rich North American heartland, ie they had succesfully driven the French and Spanish out, ‘subdued’ the Indians, and ‘settled’ it, as planned the US and UK would reunite, and present to a shocked and surprised world the fait accompli of a practically unbeatable world conquering united front.

    After the three world wars, and the destruction of the bulk of remaining peoplehood in the world, and the City of London directed Capitalist vs Communist dialectic has run it’s course and synthesized to form Global Multi-Culturalism, the intended five hundred million surviving men and women will live under a theoretical global democratic republic as citizens of a global super-state called the ‘United States of the World’ (aka the ‘New Rome’), which is to have a central US/UK political axis. In accordance with the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism, an Anglo-Saxon will rule as Prime Minister/President from the World Union capital in Jerusalem, and Anglo-Saxons as ‘Chosen’ in general will (naturally!) form something of a ruling elite/strata over the rest of humanity, ‘the worker being worthy of his wages’ they tell themselves.

    Let me say here, as I’ve said before, I am not for this. I believe empires in general are a bad business. I do think what I’ve described, along with some playing by ear by the powers that be (ie the world wars, and the five hundred million global population goal) was the basic plan from the start circa 1770.

    Plans often go astray, however, and this plan would seem no different. Chattel slavery and it’s trade rather than having been abolished was in reality monetized in the early 19th century with the introduction to the world by the British Empire of wage slavery (ie specifically, the incredibly destructive so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system), the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state. Thus, Anglo-Saxon elites and hangers on have largely ‘thrown under the bus’ many of their own people, including ultimately themselves in time.

    Unlike Anglo-Saxon ‘British Israelites’, Israelis who actually really are Jewish might have a problem with the idea of an Anglo-Saxon ruling the world from a throne in Jerusalem. According to Jewish believers interpretations of their scriptures, I suspect they would believe any such person would minimally have to be really Jewish.

    As with the Anglo-Saxons and their wage slavery, powerful elements amongst the Jewish elites and their hangers on would also seem to have some problematical ideas about slavery (ie every Jewish person to have a certain number of non-Jew slaves at some point in the future.)

    My suspicion is that in WWIII Africa will not be targeted with nukes, and that ‘purely by chance’ the vast majority of the Earth’s five hundred million survivors will be relatively pure blooded sub-Saharan Africans with their dominant genes and 70 something IQ’s.

    The sick obsession many so called ‘progressives’ have with breeding Euro’s and sub-Saharan Africans together could then come into play and afterva few geproduce a hybridized mostly Black population with an average IQ of 75, intelligent enough to understand simple commands but not much more, a perfect slave population.

    As recently heard, though with a slight addendum:

    ‘You will have nothing, and you will work for nothing, and you will be happy.’

    So, as for myself in regards to the United States of the World, the ‘cure’, including the possible intended slaughter of billions in a world war, is far worse than the present disease.

    So, thanks, but no thanks.

    What to do?

    Offer up something better!

    How about for starters a true abolition of slavery, ie no chattel or wage slavery, that is no more of the so called cheap labor/mass immigration system?

  383. @Gerard1234
    @sudden death


    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

     

    Refusing on point of principle to watch the fantasies of a sick worthless POS from a sick POS telegram site that is high chance a fake anyway ( like much of the claimed "peremoga" are)

    Isn't the best "resistance" you worthless genuine faggots in Litva showed in 250 years to Russia, literally.........holding hands in one big line with other Baltic faggots? Not exactly Stalingrad or Borodino, LOL.

    Why is it always the most worthless scumbags from the most insipid, worthless scumbag countries , who have shown historically the most insipid , worthless resistance to rule by Russia ( enlightenment would be the more accurate description of these periods)........who are the loudest and most pathetic screamers and inciters about "standing up to Russia"?!!!

    Such is how psychologically messed up the human garbage freaks in the Baltics and Poland are.......I think there is genuine trauma not at the SMO, but that the SMO wasn't done towards them.....give value to their worthless POS lives.

    Replies: @sudden death, @QCIC

    heh, this satisfying pissed off hysteria is the best indicator of you surely having watched that video with all very recently blown up iron bullZ near Ugledar;)

  384. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    https://ombudsman-dnr.ru/obzor-soczialno-gumanitarnoj-situaczii-slozhivshejsya-na-territorii-doneczkoj-narodnoj-respubliki-vsledstvie-voennyh-dejstvij-v-period-s-04-po-11-noyabrya-2022-g/

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @AnonfromTN

    I understand that most people on Earth cannot read Russian. What I don’t understand is why a person who obviously cannot read and comprehend Russian pretends that s/he/it can and claims things that are not in the document referenced. Nothing you claimed is true. No wonder that nothing you say is supported by the linked document.

    Read things in languages you understand. Don’t pretend that you understand numerous languages you don’t know. Russian is one of those. End of story.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    It was summarised thusly by Forbes. Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war. Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.

    However I am sorry that the link is (no longer?) as I described. And I thank you for your previous good faith response and I recognise 100% that my failing with this source is mine.

    (Please note that I never pretended nor claimed to speak Russian, even if I do know surprising number IRL.)

    Replies: @Beckow, @AnonfromTN

  385. Have watched the Twilight Zone movie (1983) though I knew it would be bad going in.

    My takeaway is that everyone involved should have done jailtime for lack of creativity. And, in particular, John Landis should have been put away for life, for his insipid segment about the anti-semitism and racism of white men that resulted in the deaths of three actors, including two children, who were employed in such a way as to violate multiple labor laws:

    [MORE]

    Segment one

    The first segment is a partial reworking, but not a full remake, of the episode “A Quality of Mercy”. This segment was also written and directed by John Landis

    Bill Connor is bitter after being passed over for a promotion in favor of his Jewish co-worker, Goldman. Drinking in a bar after work with his friends Larry and Ray, Bill utters slurs towards Jews, blacks and East Asians, blaming them for America’s problems. A black man sitting nearby asks him to stop. After ranting some more, Bill leaves the bar angrily and finds himself in Nazi-occupied France during World War II. A pair of S.S. officers patrolling the streets interrogate him, believing him to be Jewish. Bill can’t answer satisfactorily since he doesn’t speak German. A chase ensues, and Bill ends up on the ledge of a building, where he is shot at by the officers.

    He falls from the ledge and lands in rural Alabama during the 1950s, where a group of Ku Klux Klansmen see him as a black man whom they are about to lynch. Bill tells them he is white, to no avail. While trying to escape, he jumps into a lake and surfaces in a jungle during the Vietnam War, being fired at by American soldiers, one of whom throws a grenade. Instead of killing him, the grenade launches him into occupied France again. There he is captured by the S.S. officers and put into an enclosed railroad freight car, along with Jewish prisoners bound for a concentration camp. Bill sees the bar with his friends standing outside, looking for him. He screams for help, but they can’t see or hear him or the train as it pulls away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone%3A_The_Movie

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    Without watching the plot or the story...

    Surely it would have been more interesting if they guy ranting at the bar had been reborn as an SS officer in a bombarded Berlin or as a White colonist in South Africa having his wife raped and murdered in front of his eyes?

    "See whitey, you complaining about this shit only speeds up the extermination we have planned for you."

    Replies: @songbird

  386. @Gerard1234
    @sudden death


    Meanwhile nothing better than watching this slow grazing of iron Zbulls in the snow;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19340

     

    Refusing on point of principle to watch the fantasies of a sick worthless POS from a sick POS telegram site that is high chance a fake anyway ( like much of the claimed "peremoga" are)

    Isn't the best "resistance" you worthless genuine faggots in Litva showed in 250 years to Russia, literally.........holding hands in one big line with other Baltic faggots? Not exactly Stalingrad or Borodino, LOL.

    Why is it always the most worthless scumbags from the most insipid, worthless scumbag countries , who have shown historically the most insipid , worthless resistance to rule by Russia ( enlightenment would be the more accurate description of these periods)........who are the loudest and most pathetic screamers and inciters about "standing up to Russia"?!!!

    Such is how psychologically messed up the human garbage freaks in the Baltics and Poland are.......I think there is genuine trauma not at the SMO, but that the SMO wasn't done towards them.....give value to their worthless POS lives.

    Replies: @sudden death, @QCIC

    Gerard1234, Welcome back!

  387. @sudden death
    @A123


    RF was as careful as possible to protect large chunks of Mariupol. Only the section around the Azov Neo-Nazi steel works were leveled. Similar restraint has been shown in other locations they wish to retain.
     
    Repeating for all to see again how technically not entirely leveled sections far from Azovstal in Mariupol looked after "careful protection" by RF:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9HgZv4lk_o

    btw, hypothetically it would be interesting to dig out some possibly remaining fragments for forensic analysis at 2.20 min in video, where large post-explosive cavity is seen in place of a former playground near multi storey apartment building. In theory it probably could be possible to determine from those remaining fragments what kind of thing really fell in there - dumb airbomb, rocket or very large caliber shell.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Ugly socialist era buildings. Fit for earthquakes really.

  388. You will drive that Leopard young man!

  389. @songbird
    Have watched the Twilight Zone movie (1983) though I knew it would be bad going in.

    My takeaway is that everyone involved should have done jailtime for lack of creativity. And, in particular, John Landis should have been put away for life, for his insipid segment about the anti-semitism and racism of white men that resulted in the deaths of three actors, including two children, who were employed in such a way as to violate multiple labor laws:

    Segment one

    The first segment is a partial reworking, but not a full remake, of the episode "A Quality of Mercy". This segment was also written and directed by John Landis

    Bill Connor is bitter after being passed over for a promotion in favor of his Jewish co-worker, Goldman. Drinking in a bar after work with his friends Larry and Ray, Bill utters slurs towards Jews, blacks and East Asians, blaming them for America's problems. A black man sitting nearby asks him to stop. After ranting some more, Bill leaves the bar angrily and finds himself in Nazi-occupied France during World War II. A pair of S.S. officers patrolling the streets interrogate him, believing him to be Jewish. Bill can't answer satisfactorily since he doesn't speak German. A chase ensues, and Bill ends up on the ledge of a building, where he is shot at by the officers.

    He falls from the ledge and lands in rural Alabama during the 1950s, where a group of Ku Klux Klansmen see him as a black man whom they are about to lynch. Bill tells them he is white, to no avail. While trying to escape, he jumps into a lake and surfaces in a jungle during the Vietnam War, being fired at by American soldiers, one of whom throws a grenade. Instead of killing him, the grenade launches him into occupied France again. There he is captured by the S.S. officers and put into an enclosed railroad freight car, along with Jewish prisoners bound for a concentration camp. Bill sees the bar with his friends standing outside, looking for him. He screams for help, but they can't see or hear him or the train as it pulls away.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone%3A_The_Movie

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Without watching the plot or the story…

    Surely it would have been more interesting if they guy ranting at the bar had been reborn as an SS officer in a bombarded Berlin or as a White colonist in South Africa having his wife raped and murdered in front of his eyes?

    “See whitey, you complaining about this shit only speeds up the extermination we have planned for you.”

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Wokechoke

    It's a strange movie. The second segment (directed by Spielberg) is a story about a numinous negro who travels to old age homes, to make the old folks young again, by showing them how to have fun.

    People have said that there is something wrong with Spielberg, and he was making strange jokes while making Raiders of the Lost Ark about the age gap between Indy and Marion and how old she was when they first met and had a romance. Well, I got similar vibes here, after the old folks were turned into kids. One of the older ones, dances with a girl missing her front teeth, and then just a tiny bit later mentions the prospect of having sex again.

    The movie Big was written by Spielberg's sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways. One being that the main character's mother is under the misapprehension that he (a boy) was abducted by a man, and the character rolls with it, while trying to talk to her on the phone.

    And what is funny about the second segment of the Twilight Zone movie is that it follows on the first, and in case, anyone wasn't thinking about who was responsible for the first, Spielberg makes the ethnic identity of one of his characters really sharp (with multiple references to it.) And since there is no other similar character with a different identity, it makes one think about the identity of Spielberg.

    It's funny because, IMO, it would be hard to make worse propaganda. The first segment was so ham-fisted that it makes me wonder if drugs were involved.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  390. @Chebyshev
    It seems like the U.S.A. foreign policy establishment is crazily and ferociously hostile to both Russia and China, and wants to neuter both countries. I don't think, though, that they're crazy enough to want a war with both countries simultaneously. If that's the case, then a firm military alliance between Russia and China is imperative for world peace.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    A lot of things went wrong last time,

    1. Mao always considered his primary competitor to be the Soviets, not the West.

    He said something like “we’ll race ahead of our Soviet elder brother to the gates of Full Communism. And when we get there, we’ll wait outside the gate for older brother to catch up with us, and for him enter first before us”

    2. Khrushchev adamantly would not back Mao on the Taiwan Question. Putin on the other hand is probably much more amenable to backing Xi.

    But then again PRC maintains good relations with Ukraine.

    3. Sino-American Rapprochement happened very suddenly in the 70’s and it could happen again.

    • Thanks: Chebyshev
  391. @Greasy William
    @AP

    China launched a military invasion on the US, would you fight for the US like the Ukrainians are fighting for Ukraine?

    Replies: @AP

    I would do something, most likely. I can shoot, but I’m not sure what use a 50 year old without military experience would be. I didn’t go to Ukraine because I have kids in college and a mortgage and can’t quit my job, but if China invaded the country I live in those factors would cease to exist I would be free. Had I gone to Ukraine I would probably have helped in ways that don’t involve soldiering.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AP

    Potential military healthcare in many cases during war is not any less important than soldiering.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  392. @AP
    @Greasy William

    I would do something, most likely. I can shoot, but I’m not sure what use a 50 year old without military experience would be. I didn’t go to Ukraine because I have kids in college and a mortgage and can’t quit my job, but if China invaded the country I live in those factors would cease to exist I would be free. Had I gone to Ukraine I would probably have helped in ways that don’t involve soldiering.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Potential military healthcare in many cases during war is not any less important than soldiering.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @sudden death

    Operational losses to trenchfoot were as high as 20% in WW1 before the British Army swapped foot wraps for multiple pairs of socks in 1916.

  393. @Dmitry
    @AP

    You have the rational atheist's attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the "Holy Land". They have motivation there because it is the "Promised Land" given to Abraham, or "Land of Milk and Honey" carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    Islam's relation to the conflict, is also just religion. Quantitatively the Israel-Palestinian conflict is small (less people die in the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 75 years, than in Ukraine every 3 months), but qualitatively the conflict is very large. They believe Muhammad climbed to heaven there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra%27_and_Mi%27raj).

    There are also ruins of Crusader castles everywhere, because of centuries of wars of Christian alliances (when those were also a cult) to conquer the "Holy Land".

    It feels like the area has a weird, religious atmosphere coming. You can't escape a tense atmosphere. You can almost be expecting scientists will discover unknown magnetic force in the Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps the Mormon UFO buried under the Pyramids.


    Jews East Prussia,

     

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Part of the society, are people who are more religious than Mormons and the religious sites are essential in their religion. Those religious nationalist people would not live in Prussia.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZBLruSVXo

    @Yayha


    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslim

     

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple. The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2013&version=NIV

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

    There is internal logic if they assume Israel will rebuild the temple, but the assumptions are not rational - it's because of what someone wrote in the book a couple thousand years ago.

    Replies: @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

    You have the rational atheist’s attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the “Holy Land”. They have motivation there because it is the “Promised Land” given to Abraham, or “Land of Milk and Honey” carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    I thought that Zionists weren’t particularly religious, and indeed were in conflict with religious Jews.

    Israel was the choice by Zionists from the 19th century because it was the historical homeland and because as a British protectorate it was seen as having a chance to get settled and become a Jewish state. No one would have imagined that East Prussia could be cleared of Germans completely, as had been done.

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    No, the Jews would want a homeland somewhere, and unlike Birobidzhan East Prussia would offer some architecturally beautiful towns to settle, would be close to the heart of Europe, would have milder climate, etc. And of course it would be fully independent. If this were their only choice they would accept.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Too many Arabs all around.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AP

    Apparently Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland - somewhere in Poland or Ukraine, Cyprus, parts of Australia, and Sinai. So East Prussia could have worked if it were offered and pushed.

    From wiki:



    In 1902, Zionist Max Bodenheimer proposed the idea of the League of East European States, which would entail the establishment of a buffer state (Pufferstaat) within the Jewish Pale of Settlement of Russia, composed of the former Polish provinces annexed by Russia.[21][22]

    In the early 20th century Cyprus and El Arish on the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt and its environs were proposed as a site for Jewish settlement by Herzl.

    The Kimberley Plan was a failed plan by the Freeland League, led by Isaac Nachman Steinberg, to resettle Jewish refugees from Europe in the Kimberley region in Australia before and during the Holocaust

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    Zionists weren’t particularly religious,
     
    Sure, secular Labor Zionism was the ruling party from 1948-1977. Israeli Prime Ministers are all secular until Bennett in 2021, was the first religious person to be Prime Minister. He was moderate kind of religious person. And now it's secular again Prime Minister and President (President Isaac Herzog, who has an LGBT son).

    But for people who were part of religious cults for thousands of years, the first generations of secularism can seem superficial, and you can see they follow religious themes with a different terminology.

    With secular Zionism, they rebuild the ancient language of Hebrew, where most of the words have a religious theme. They are buying parts of the Holy Land since the 19th century.

    It could seem like they secular Zionists were preparing for the religious prophecies, like the "left hand is not knowing what the right hand is doing". This is the claim of Gush Emunim, who believe the secular Zionists were a hidden hand of God, as the result of the secular Zionist behavior is often to support the religious objective.

    Even those secular romantic motives for Jews wanting to be in Israel, are descended from the religious importance of land, when it becomes theme for the Labor Zionism. e.g. "redeeming the land", "returning the Maccabees".

    Israelis typically say that in 1967, when Israel attains the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the national mood was flooded with the messianic religious emotions. And as the secular Israeli writers say, messianic hypnosis continued until they didn't prepare for future tragedies (1973, intifadas, etc).

    Secular Israelis write "Israel loses discipline after 1967". Israel forget practical, limited objectives, and the society was flooded with too many religious emotions from the holy sites, becoming a kind of religious hubris.

    So, Israel enters the religious hypnosis within a generation of its secular beginning*, it's perhaps an indication of not completely secular motives connected with the land.

    In 1977, Labor loses the first election and they don't have the political monopoly. Nowadays the religious groups can become "kingmaker" in the proportional representation system. so at least some of the religious groups usually have to be part of the political decisions even though the religious don't have the political majority.

    -

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrjRqm35mY.)

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That's the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVOiw6at3Y


    Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or

     

    It could have solved the social "Jewish question" of 19th century Europe. Today, it would be a developed EU country with a lot of high-tech industry, although I would guess only a secular Jewish minority and majority secular descendants of Christians.

    If it was somewhere like Australia, it could have avoid deaths of the holocaust.

    But it wouldn't be useful for Judaism as religion. This concept of land, Eretz Yisrael, is central in the religion. For example, the traditional religious people like Ethiopian Jews probably would not be very happy to go to Poland

    Yemeni Jews were already immigrating to Palestine when it was majority (Muslim) Arab parts of the Ottoman empire. Haredim were also going there already before the secular immigration.

    Those religious, would have continued immigrating there.


    -
    *
    Although there is secular management, Israel is not exactly like a secular Benelux country. Every Friday night in Jerusalem, there are 100,000 people trying to talk to god on the ruins of the temple.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123, @Greasy William

  394. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I understand that most people on Earth cannot read Russian. What I don’t understand is why a person who obviously cannot read and comprehend Russian pretends that s/he/it can and claims things that are not in the document referenced. Nothing you claimed is true. No wonder that nothing you say is supported by the linked document.

    Read things in languages you understand. Don’t pretend that you understand numerous languages you don’t know. Russian is one of those. End of story.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    It was summarised thusly by Forbes. Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war. Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.

    However I am sorry that the link is (no longer?) as I described. And I thank you for your previous good faith response and I recognise 100% that my failing with this source is mine.

    (Please note that I never pretended nor claimed to speak Russian, even if I do know surprising number IRL.)

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...surprising number...
     
    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious...why not also look into Italian cousine before they brought tomatoes from America? Surprising analogies can be found...only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.

    Regarding the bright Western future and the surprisingly good next decade about to happen: it is impossible to know timing of what is likely to happen in the future, that's what makes it so interesting. My point about the West being basically f..ed doesn't address next decade...you could be right, there will be one, or even two more spurts of good life. I agree that some potential scenarios - like the 2 billion Africans heading up north - will be addressed because they have to be. But it changes the whole system, the way society manages itself - there will be other consequences.

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ...culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children - if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us - because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens. Maybe not next decade, possibly in the 2030's...maybe even later...but there is no way back from nothing, and too many in the West have embraced the nothing life...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    It was summarised thusly by Forbes.
     
    If true, this shows that the credibility of Forbes is exactly zero.

    Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war.
     
    Shows that there is no intelligence left in “British intelligence”. As everyone worth his salt was pushed out of CIA and NSA when they refused to support “Iraq WMD” lie, it appears that all “five eyes” are blind and not aware of the fact. A huge boon for Russian operatives.

    Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.
     
    Girkin did not found these militias. In fact, he never even was in LPR. He founded one unit of a bit over 20 people in DPR. In the process of defending Slavyansk from Ukies this unit grew to >1,000 people. After the retreat from Slavyansk he was briefly appointed defense minister of DPR, but was dismissed in August 2014 (FYI, ~9 years ago). He never had any position of responsibility since that time, so his info is about as good as mine. Except that I realize my limitations, whereas his bloated ego makes him pontificate on matters he is clueless about. His statements today are about as reliable as those of Nostradamus.

    Replies: @Jazman

  395. @AP
    @Dmitry


    You have the rational atheist’s attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the “Holy Land”. They have motivation there because it is the “Promised Land” given to Abraham, or “Land of Milk and Honey” carried to by Moses. That is religion.

     

    I thought that Zionists weren’t particularly religious, and indeed were in conflict with religious Jews.

    Israel was the choice by Zionists from the 19th century because it was the historical homeland and because as a British protectorate it was seen as having a chance to get settled and become a Jewish state. No one would have imagined that East Prussia could be cleared of Germans completely, as had been done.

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.
     
    No, the Jews would want a homeland somewhere, and unlike Birobidzhan East Prussia would offer some architecturally beautiful towns to settle, would be close to the heart of Europe, would have milder climate, etc. And of course it would be fully independent. If this were their only choice they would accept.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.
     
    Too many Arabs all around.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    Apparently Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or Ukraine, Cyprus, parts of Australia, and Sinai. So East Prussia could have worked if it were offered and pushed.

    From wiki:

    [MORE]

    In 1902, Zionist Max Bodenheimer proposed the idea of the League of East European States, which would entail the establishment of a buffer state (Pufferstaat) within the Jewish Pale of Settlement of Russia, composed of the former Polish provinces annexed by Russia.[21][22]

    In the early 20th century Cyprus and El Arish on the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt and its environs were proposed as a site for Jewish settlement by Herzl.

    The Kimberley Plan was a failed plan by the Freeland League, led by Isaac Nachman Steinberg, to resettle Jewish refugees from Europe in the Kimberley region in Australia before and during the Holocaust

  396. I think everyone needs to get some context for deaths in war. Britain lost 700,000 in WW1. WW1 lasted 51 months.

    In other words, Britain lost 13,700 men a month. Or 164,000 a year. The war in Ukraine is now one year long.

    Ukraine likely has a rotational pool of 1 million men, whereas Britain used 5 million over the course of the war. These two numbers are not directly comparable, because it does not define how long each man operated in theatre, however the basic ratio is 1:5.

    Ukraine is conservative in its military strategy. Britain was substantially less so. There have been no massed Ukrainian charges into machine gun fire. In fact, the vast bulk of Ukrainian fighting has been conducted from heavily fortified positions that ensure that artillery fire can at best hope to suppress, rather than kill.

    Ukraine also has far superior medical care to Britain in WW1 for obvious reasons, like the invention of antibiotics.

    Therefore I think it likely that 164,000 ÷ 5 = 33,000 is a reasonable approximation of their deaths.

    They have conducted few assaults or even probing actions, and when they have done so, they either did it with overwhelming force (NE) or with less fighting and a focus on cutting logistics (Kherson). This is very different from Russia, which has taken substantial risks with their manpower.

    As for what this means for the war, we can assume that Ukraine has potential for at least 2 million men under arms. Probably it is twice that, but I’ll stick with this minimum going forward.

    33,000 deaths is likely about 150,000 men total rendered combat ineffective, either through injury or those deaths.

    A force of 2 million can probably sustain 750,000 injuries and deaths combined before potentially being defeated by attrition. This is just over a third that renders US units “combat ineffective.” Again a conservative number.

    This means that Russia will need to, at the absolute minimum, maintain this war, at this tempo, for 4 more years, in order to even approach exhausting Ukraine’s manpower. And realistically, it would be a lot more years, given both how conservative I was with these figures and that I’ve ignored all other potential sources of manpower.

    So if Russia aims to win via attrition, or “killing the enemy army”, we can begin to have a conversation looking at whether this might happen from 2027 onwards.

    Can we please stop talking about how Russia will destroy the Ukrainian Army now?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    The casualties of ww1 are well documented.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E_JYmo4B7h8/VR3tYljRURI/AAAAAAAACBQ/q_CFiHp3mHY/s1600/MontlhyCas.png

    By the Front and by Nation and Month by Month. The combat is intensive. Teh Ukies have counter attacked wherever end whenever they can like the Germans on the Western Front while they have occupied concrete bunkers.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_8yRcDY1i4c/VR3tYvexeaI/AAAAAAAACBU/ZizJZt4TUdE/s1600/casCum.png


    The Ukies may very well have 100k dead.

    Replies: @Beckow

  397. Michael Tracey
    @mtracey
    The former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett just confirmed what any rational observer could’ve surmised: Russia and Ukraine reached a preliminary agreement during the early phase of the war — “Both sides very much wanted a ceasefire,” Bennett said — but the US “blocked it”
    11:41 AM · Feb 6, 2023
    ·2.4M
    Views

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mikhail

    Bennet makes clear this is a misrepresention. There was nothing about the US blocking anything. Nor would they be able to. Try to think before making silly allegations.

    https://twitter.com/naftalibennett/status/1622571402430750721?t=8gblRpq9l0jjoGQwqLFsWg&s=19

    , @A123
    @Mikhail

    Read the full article. (1)


    Discussing how Western leaders felt about his mediation efforts, Bennett said then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson took an “aggressive line” while French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz were more “pragmatic.” Bennett said President Biden adopted “both” positions.

    But ultimately, the Western leaders opposed Bennet’s efforts. “I’ll say this in the broad sense. I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking Putin and not [negotiate],” Bennett said.
     

    America mentioned last.

    Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine didn’t stop with Bennett’s efforts. Later in March, Russian and Ukrainian officials met in Istanbul, Turkey, and followed up with virtual consultations. According to the account of former US officials speaking to Foreign Affairs, the two sides agreed on the framework for a tentative deal. Russian officials, including Putin, have said publicly that a deal was close following the Istanbul talks.
     
    America mentioned in conjunction with progress being made.

    Boris Johnson visited Kyiv in April 2022, urging Zelensky not to negotiate with Russia. According to a report from Ukrainska Pravda, he said even if Ukraine was ready to sign a deal with Russia, Kyiv’s Western backers were not.
     
    America not mentioned as things back slide.
    ___

    The analysis is quite straightforward.

    Q: Did Europe screw up a potential Russia/Ukraine deal?

    A: It is highly probable that the European Empire acted maliciously. The U.S. was at best a junior player carrying the load for European national leaders.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/former-israeli-pm-bennett-says-us-blocked-his-attempts-russia-ukraine-peace-deal

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  398. @Dmitry
    @AP

    You have the rational atheist's attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the "Holy Land". They have motivation there because it is the "Promised Land" given to Abraham, or "Land of Milk and Honey" carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    Islam's relation to the conflict, is also just religion. Quantitatively the Israel-Palestinian conflict is small (less people die in the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 75 years, than in Ukraine every 3 months), but qualitatively the conflict is very large. They believe Muhammad climbed to heaven there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra%27_and_Mi%27raj).

    There are also ruins of Crusader castles everywhere, because of centuries of wars of Christian alliances (when those were also a cult) to conquer the "Holy Land".

    It feels like the area has a weird, religious atmosphere coming. You can't escape a tense atmosphere. You can almost be expecting scientists will discover unknown magnetic force in the Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps the Mormon UFO buried under the Pyramids.


    Jews East Prussia,

     

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Part of the society, are people who are more religious than Mormons and the religious sites are essential in their religion. Those religious nationalist people would not live in Prussia.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZBLruSVXo

    @Yayha


    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslim

     

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple. The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2013&version=NIV

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

    There is internal logic if they assume Israel will rebuild the temple, but the assumptions are not rational - it's because of what someone wrote in the book a couple thousand years ago.

    Replies: @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

    The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    This does not have to be true. Apparently, for God “soon” can mean thousands of years – already in prophetic writings, e.g. Habakuk 2:3, it is said I come “soon”.

    For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak and not lie. Though it tarry, wait for it, because it will surely come; it will not tarry.

    Therefore, there is reading of Apocalypse/Revelation which spreads the End Times from the destruction of the Temple to basically now. This is supported by the fact that historically there were several end times already eg. millenarism and the time of Crusades. See my comment no:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5790439

    If these past “end times” weren’t really final, there are only two possibilities: 1) the End Time did not come yet, 2) The End Time already started a long time ago and is still ongoing.

    For many reasons – control, keeping life going on, keeping open the possibilities of manipulating Scripture – it is (1) which will be popular among churchmen and not (2).

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Basically Matthew 24:37-39 precludes any widespread realization of the End Times, which again would mean that interpretation (1) "No end time yet" would be official one during the End Time. This is such an obvious conclusion that you have wonder why churches do not speak about it, but many apparently are instead obsessed with building the "Third Temple" to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

    As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In the beginning of the prophecy, it would be the Second Temple. But the parts about "abomination of desolation" are often interpreted to be reference to the Third Temple, which can be seen as either a future Temple, or current Church.

    This is how Martin Luther interpreted the texts, with the famous conclusion the Pope is the anti-Christ.


    instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

     

    It's like the old discussion about the revolution. Marx says communism is scientifically inevitable. So, why do you need revolutionary activity? The end time will come, when god is ready.

    E.g. Evangelicals are helping to fund the return of Ethiopian Jews to Israel, with perhaps partial motivation (although they also are just normal charity) to try to shift the end time forward by ending the fourth exile. It can seem like the Lenin's attitude to pushing into communism before the current historical stage, or in the incorrect country.

    But I think they will see this as the question of being "instrument of God". They aren't shifting end time forward, but will believe they are instrument of God, who is preparing the end time.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  399. @Dmitry
    @AP

    You have the rational atheist's attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the "Holy Land". They have motivation there because it is the "Promised Land" given to Abraham, or "Land of Milk and Honey" carried to by Moses. That is religion.

    Islam's relation to the conflict, is also just religion. Quantitatively the Israel-Palestinian conflict is small (less people die in the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 75 years, than in Ukraine every 3 months), but qualitatively the conflict is very large. They believe Muhammad climbed to heaven there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra%27_and_Mi%27raj).

    There are also ruins of Crusader castles everywhere, because of centuries of wars of Christian alliances (when those were also a cult) to conquer the "Holy Land".

    It feels like the area has a weird, religious atmosphere coming. You can't escape a tense atmosphere. You can almost be expecting scientists will discover unknown magnetic force in the Eastern Mediterranean, perhaps the Mormon UFO buried under the Pyramids.


    Jews East Prussia,

     

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.

    Part of the society, are people who are more religious than Mormons and the religious sites are essential in their religion. Those religious nationalist people would not live in Prussia.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaZBLruSVXo

    @Yayha


    Western Christians understandably have an image in their mind of hostile Muslim

     

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple. The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2013&version=NIV

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=NIV

    There is internal logic if they assume Israel will rebuild the temple, but the assumptions are not rational - it's because of what someone wrote in the book a couple thousand years ago.

    Replies: @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

    Islam’s relation to the conflict, is also just religion.

    On the surface, sure. But you are missing the power dynamics behind Muslim support for Palestine. It’s not about scripture but more about Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews. The Islamic world’s focus on reason, science, objectivity and rationality has left it in a deep spiritual void; which it seeks to escape by domineering and bullying behavior.

    But the only lasting solution to their spiritual crisis would be to shift from the right-hemisphere to the left-hemisphere part of the brain; re-establishing the primacy of faith over reason; subjectivity over objectivity; and religion over science.

    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple.

    My impression is that there’s a wide range of views within Christianity on the topic of Zionism.

    Catholics and Orthodox Christians don’t seem to much care for it.

    Protestants in Europe are secularized so they don’t care much either; in fact probably support Palestine more than Israel.

    Arab Christians are fairly religious and practice some of the oldest forms of Christianity; but they oppose Israel, perhaps for ethnic more than religious reasons.

    It seems that only the Americano is a staunch supporter of the Zionist project.

    Is this more scriptural in basis or a product of some Anglo ideology of philo-Semitism?

    Why don’t Catholics and Eastern Christians follow scripture in the same manner?

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Yahya


    On the surface, sure. But you are missing the power dynamics behind Muslim support for Palestine. It’s not about scripture but more about Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews. The Islamic world’s focus on reason, science, objectivity and rationality has left it in a deep spiritual void; which it seeks to escape by domineering and bullying behavior.

    But the only lasting solution to their spiritual crisis would be to shift from the right-hemisphere to the left-hemisphere part of the brain; re-establishing the primacy of faith over reason; subjectivity over objectivity; and religion over science.
     
    A very significant and penetrating comment, not only as it sheds light on the Middle East conflict, but on the human condition in general and on many themes we talk about on this blog.

    Feeling that one is "worthy" - seems to be perhaps the most crucial human need, and the lack of this feeling seems to power any number of wars and conflicts, and perhaps even all of them, and to be behind most discontent and psychological suffering in life, and behind most of not all of the deep political disaffection in the West today, especially on the right.

    Who really believes Russia's "practical" reasons for it's war? It is about Russians feeling "worthy" - being able to dominate their region.

    Fill this need for people, and would people live in harmony? Are feelings of inadequacy and the need to feel one has value the main driver of the whole strange kaleidoscope of events that constitute world history?

    But how to give people this feeling?

    It seems - somehow and strangely - that orienting oneself primarily around science and reason leads eventually to a collapse in feelings of self worth and value. This is most obvious in the West, but as Yahya points out, it's happening in the Muslim world, and we see it happening in places like Japan.

    But why should that be?

    And yet, obviously there is a kind of "defensive religion" that is based on feelings of threatened self worth and that leads to conflict and personal misery. History is too full of examples for this to need any proving here.

    But at the same time, can the "right" kind of religion be the only viable cure? The sort of religion that focuses on morality, being centered and rooted in Being, and having an invisible underlying connection to everything and the All (the classical metaphysics of all major faiths).

    After all, the most striking thing about science and reason is that it is at best amoral - might cultivating morality lead to a feeling of being justified (The extreme to be avoided here would be self-righteousness)? And it's neglect lead to a loss in feelings of personal value?

    All classical civilizations had a surpassing concern with "virtue" - discovering what it is and cultivating it. Can the modern modern neglect of this discipline be one of the leading causes in the crisis of feelings of self-worth?

    Another striking features of science and faith is alienation - one is no longer "rooted" in Being, one feels untethered and adrift in a dead, uncaring universe. What impact might this have on mental health and feelings of self worth?

    Finally, science and reason creates a feeling of disconnection from everything and the All, through it's attitude of atomizing everything - yet can one feel one has worth as a mere "atom", seperate from everything else?

    Of course, a "mere" return to religion would carry the danger of returning to the wrong kind of defensive, threatened ego religion that is itself proto-modern - in that it prefigures and contains in embryo the tendencies that came to full blown fruition in the modern period - and would be no panacea.

    Rather, with the benefit of hindsight and history a judicious and discerning "rescue" of that solid element "within" religion - often buried deeply - that has always been the only reason for valuing it.

    Is that the task of the next century?
  400. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.
     
    This does not have to be true. Apparently, for God "soon" can mean thousands of years - already in prophetic writings, e.g. Habakuk 2:3, it is said I come "soon".

    For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak and not lie. Though it tarry, wait for it, because it will surely come; it will not tarry.

    Therefore, there is reading of Apocalypse/Revelation which spreads the End Times from the destruction of the Temple to basically now. This is supported by the fact that historically there were several end times already eg. millenarism and the time of Crusades. See my comment no:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5790439

    If these past "end times" weren't really final, there are only two possibilities: 1) the End Time did not come yet, 2) The End Time already started a long time ago and is still ongoing.

    For many reasons - control, keeping life going on, keeping open the possibilities of manipulating Scripture - it is (1) which will be popular among churchmen and not (2).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    Basically Matthew 24:37-39 precludes any widespread realization of the End Times, which again would mean that interpretation (1) “No end time yet” would be official one during the End Time. This is such an obvious conclusion that you have wonder why churches do not speak about it, but many apparently are instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

    As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Should be:

    "...instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time FORWARD"

    instead of

    "instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back"

  401. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Basically Matthew 24:37-39 precludes any widespread realization of the End Times, which again would mean that interpretation (1) "No end time yet" would be official one during the End Time. This is such an obvious conclusion that you have wonder why churches do not speak about it, but many apparently are instead obsessed with building the "Third Temple" to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

    As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Should be:

    “…instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time FORWARD”

    instead of

    “instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back”

  402. @Mikhail

    Michael Tracey
    @mtracey
    The former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett just confirmed what any rational observer could've surmised: Russia and Ukraine reached a preliminary agreement during the early phase of the war — "Both sides very much wanted a ceasefire," Bennett said — but the US "blocked it"
    11:41 AM · Feb 6, 2023
    ·2.4M
    Views
     



    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1622636568165986304

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    Bennet makes clear this is a misrepresention. There was nothing about the US blocking anything. Nor would they be able to. Try to think before making silly allegations.

    [MORE]

    • Agree: A123
    • Troll: Mikhail
  403. @AP
    @Dmitry


    You have the rational atheist’s attitude, which seems sensible from the perspective of the holocaust or recent European history. But the deeper motivation for Israel and the war there, is because it is the “Holy Land”. They have motivation there because it is the “Promised Land” given to Abraham, or “Land of Milk and Honey” carried to by Moses. That is religion.

     

    I thought that Zionists weren’t particularly religious, and indeed were in conflict with religious Jews.

    Israel was the choice by Zionists from the 19th century because it was the historical homeland and because as a British protectorate it was seen as having a chance to get settled and become a Jewish state. No one would have imagined that East Prussia could be cleared of Germans completely, as had been done.

    It would be like Birobidzhan rather than Utah. I.e. the Mormons would not be there, but only some Russian people interested in Yiddish orthography.
     
    No, the Jews would want a homeland somewhere, and unlike Birobidzhan East Prussia would offer some architecturally beautiful towns to settle, would be close to the heart of Europe, would have milder climate, etc. And of course it would be fully independent. If this were their only choice they would accept.

    Or it would be used as a temporary military base, for Jewish religious nationalists to prepare the crusade to conquer Jerusalem.
     
    Too many Arabs all around.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    Zionists weren’t particularly religious,

    Sure, secular Labor Zionism was the ruling party from 1948-1977. Israeli Prime Ministers are all secular until Bennett in 2021, was the first religious person to be Prime Minister. He was moderate kind of religious person. And now it’s secular again Prime Minister and President (President Isaac Herzog, who has an LGBT son).

    But for people who were part of religious cults for thousands of years, the first generations of secularism can seem superficial, and you can see they follow religious themes with a different terminology.

    With secular Zionism, they rebuild the ancient language of Hebrew, where most of the words have a religious theme. They are buying parts of the Holy Land since the 19th century.

    It could seem like they secular Zionists were preparing for the religious prophecies, like the “left hand is not knowing what the right hand is doing”. This is the claim of Gush Emunim, who believe the secular Zionists were a hidden hand of God, as the result of the secular Zionist behavior is often to support the religious objective.

    Even those secular romantic motives for Jews wanting to be in Israel, are descended from the religious importance of land, when it becomes theme for the Labor Zionism. e.g. “redeeming the land”, “returning the Maccabees”.

    Israelis typically say that in 1967, when Israel attains the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the national mood was flooded with the messianic religious emotions. And as the secular Israeli writers say, messianic hypnosis continued until they didn’t prepare for future tragedies (1973, intifadas, etc).

    Secular Israelis write “Israel loses discipline after 1967”. Israel forget practical, limited objectives, and the society was flooded with too many religious emotions from the holy sites, becoming a kind of religious hubris.

    So, Israel enters the religious hypnosis within a generation of its secular beginning*, it’s perhaps an indication of not completely secular motives connected with the land.

    In 1977, Labor loses the first election and they don’t have the political monopoly. Nowadays the religious groups can become “kingmaker” in the proportional representation system. so at least some of the religious groups usually have to be part of the political decisions even though the religious don’t have the political majority.

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrjRqm35mY.)

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)

    Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or

    It could have solved the social “Jewish question” of 19th century Europe. Today, it would be a developed EU country with a lot of high-tech industry, although I would guess only a secular Jewish minority and majority secular descendants of Christians.

    If it was somewhere like Australia, it could have avoid deaths of the holocaust.

    But it wouldn’t be useful for Judaism as religion. This concept of land, Eretz Yisrael, is central in the religion. For example, the traditional religious people like Ethiopian Jews probably would not be very happy to go to Poland

    Yemeni Jews were already immigrating to Palestine when it was majority (Muslim) Arab parts of the Ottoman empire. Haredim were also going there already before the secular immigration.

    Those religious, would have continued immigrating there.


    *
    Although there is secular management, Israel is not exactly like a secular Benelux country. Every Friday night in Jerusalem, there are 100,000 people trying to talk to god on the ruins of the temple.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
     
    These orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.

    They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.

    Can have fun with each other away from civilized people.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @A123
    @Dmitry


    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
     
    The Jews of Judea spent 2000 years getting their land back. Trying a "land for peace" deal by withdrawing from Gaza was extremely controversial. The effort catastrophically failed. It increased the amount of suffering on all sides.

    The psychology in practice is quite clear:

    • The Muslim Occupiers in Judea and Samaria view land concessions by Jews as a weakness. Something to be ruthlessly exploited by Islam.
    • After Gaza, the indigenous religion of Judaism has figured this out. They now grasp it instinctively. Jews can never offer anything that might be perceived as weak, regardless of how it is actually intended.

    Any serious effort at a deal has to grasp that the misconduct of Islam has permanently closed the door on "land for peace" as an approach. The idea of a 2 state solution is dead because Muslims killed it. The more that is made clear to the world, the better off everyone will be.

    The smart move for the current Israeli government is to wait another 6-12 months for Not-The-President Biden to finish becoming totally irrelevant. Have a minister from one of the supporting parties finalize the long awaited E1 construction plan. On the ground, it would irrevocably & visibly demonstrate that Jerusalem us a single unified city. There would be no way to steal a piece of it to be given to another entity. By doing it when a struggling non-President is flailing in DC it would become fiat accompli while the anti-Semitic Democrat Party cannot effectively respond.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Greasy William
    @Dmitry


    Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war
     
    It would be a guaranteed civil war which is why nobody seriously advocates it anymore
  404. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    It was summarised thusly by Forbes. Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war. Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.

    However I am sorry that the link is (no longer?) as I described. And I thank you for your previous good faith response and I recognise 100% that my failing with this source is mine.

    (Please note that I never pretended nor claimed to speak Russian, even if I do know surprising number IRL.)

    Replies: @Beckow, @AnonfromTN

    …surprising number…

    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious…why not also look into Italian cousine before they brought tomatoes from America? Surprising analogies can be found…only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.

    Regarding the bright Western future and the surprisingly good next decade about to happen: it is impossible to know timing of what is likely to happen in the future, that’s what makes it so interesting. My point about the West being basically f..ed doesn’t address next decade…you could be right, there will be one, or even two more spurts of good life. I agree that some potential scenarios – like the 2 billion Africans heading up north – will be addressed because they have to be. But it changes the whole system, the way society manages itself – there will be other consequences.

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ…culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children – if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us – because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens. Maybe not next decade, possibly in the 2030’s…maybe even later…but there is no way back from nothing, and too many in the West have embraced the nothing life…

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow


    You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious
     
    Do you really think it is unlikely that this war is less lethal than WWI for an army that has been mostly content to defend from ultra-fortified positions and suffered no decisive defeats?

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ…culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children – if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us – because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens.
     
    "Gender confusion" is a fad born of people trying to move away from the idea that your sex dictates your personality. Directionally, it represents an improvement in understanding, though with excesses that will fade.

    I don't care which adults people choose to have sex with nor do I care about the manner they choose to have sex. In my experience, the stranger their desires the more spiritually/psychologically repressed they are, and their odd sex is used to try to understand that. And please no one interrupt to argue that the progressives want to legalise child molestation. They most certainly don't. I have no interest in arguing that point, nor likely does Beckow, any more than arguing that Donald Trump is a Nazi.

    Fertility rates are low, especially in Eastern and Southern Europe and East Asia. But this will take many decades to be a profound problem and by then we'll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything. Predicting past that point is pointless. In the meantime, it will just be a cause for sadness and some degree of mediocrity. One cause among many, with many other factors acting in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    “surprising number…”

    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff
     
    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.

    only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.
     
    This number intuitively seems rather low, though unlike you, your interlocutor is at least using some reasoning. Too many prominent people (Olympic athletes, artists, etc.) are dying on the battlefield. It could be that these people are particularly patriotic and brave, finding themselves in the worst circumstances. But it suggests high numbers.

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been. So the actual number is probably somewhere in between, our former host guessed around 80k but it was a couple of weeks ago.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

  405. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Zionists weren’t particularly religious,
     
    Sure, secular Labor Zionism was the ruling party from 1948-1977. Israeli Prime Ministers are all secular until Bennett in 2021, was the first religious person to be Prime Minister. He was moderate kind of religious person. And now it's secular again Prime Minister and President (President Isaac Herzog, who has an LGBT son).

    But for people who were part of religious cults for thousands of years, the first generations of secularism can seem superficial, and you can see they follow religious themes with a different terminology.

    With secular Zionism, they rebuild the ancient language of Hebrew, where most of the words have a religious theme. They are buying parts of the Holy Land since the 19th century.

    It could seem like they secular Zionists were preparing for the religious prophecies, like the "left hand is not knowing what the right hand is doing". This is the claim of Gush Emunim, who believe the secular Zionists were a hidden hand of God, as the result of the secular Zionist behavior is often to support the religious objective.

    Even those secular romantic motives for Jews wanting to be in Israel, are descended from the religious importance of land, when it becomes theme for the Labor Zionism. e.g. "redeeming the land", "returning the Maccabees".

    Israelis typically say that in 1967, when Israel attains the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the national mood was flooded with the messianic religious emotions. And as the secular Israeli writers say, messianic hypnosis continued until they didn't prepare for future tragedies (1973, intifadas, etc).

    Secular Israelis write "Israel loses discipline after 1967". Israel forget practical, limited objectives, and the society was flooded with too many religious emotions from the holy sites, becoming a kind of religious hubris.

    So, Israel enters the religious hypnosis within a generation of its secular beginning*, it's perhaps an indication of not completely secular motives connected with the land.

    In 1977, Labor loses the first election and they don't have the political monopoly. Nowadays the religious groups can become "kingmaker" in the proportional representation system. so at least some of the religious groups usually have to be part of the political decisions even though the religious don't have the political majority.

    -

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrjRqm35mY.)

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That's the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVOiw6at3Y


    Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or

     

    It could have solved the social "Jewish question" of 19th century Europe. Today, it would be a developed EU country with a lot of high-tech industry, although I would guess only a secular Jewish minority and majority secular descendants of Christians.

    If it was somewhere like Australia, it could have avoid deaths of the holocaust.

    But it wouldn't be useful for Judaism as religion. This concept of land, Eretz Yisrael, is central in the religion. For example, the traditional religious people like Ethiopian Jews probably would not be very happy to go to Poland

    Yemeni Jews were already immigrating to Palestine when it was majority (Muslim) Arab parts of the Ottoman empire. Haredim were also going there already before the secular immigration.

    Those religious, would have continued immigrating there.


    -
    *
    Although there is secular management, Israel is not exactly like a secular Benelux country. Every Friday night in Jerusalem, there are 100,000 people trying to talk to god on the ruins of the temple.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123, @Greasy William

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)

    These orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.

    They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.

    Can have fun with each other away from civilized people.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    this more scriptural in basis or a

     

    If you believe Jesus is son of God, there will be Second Coming, New Testament is accurate description of what he says. And Jesus says to his disciplines, the sign of the end times, is when the Temple is destroyed. E.g. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV

    For secular people, this is obviously reference to 70 AD, around time of the writing of the Gospels, when the Second Temple was destroyed by Romans.

    But then if you say it refers to 70AD, the prophecy said by Jesus in multiple Gospels has been false and there was no Second Coming.

    So, if you believe the prophecy of Jesus has to be true, before the Second Coming, it could seem like the only solution, is to believe there will be the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

    In the 19th century, this would not seem likely. Who is there to rebuild the Third Temple in Ottoman Syria. Imagine this in the 1810.

    But after Israel is recreated in 1948. After 1967, when Israel captures the Temple mount, many preconditions for building of the Third Temple are available.

    It's still unlikely Israel will build the Third Temple as it would create war with the Muslim world. But if you expecting Second Coming, then 1967 would have been an important event. There are not completely impossible scenarios where they would build the Third Temple, for example, if there was war with the Muslim world, religious nationalist government in Israel etc.


    Catholics and Eastern Christians follow

     

    In earlier years, some Church fathers interpret that the Church itself is the Third Temple, although some Church fathers interpret it as a physical temple. There isn't consensus, but you can read a few of the very "symbolist" interpretation of this part of the Gospels if you read the Church fathers.

    But for the Protestants who read the Gospels, they can more likely read the text, and there Jesus is pointing at the temple in Jerusalem and talking about its destruction https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV It seems like an ordinary text about the real places.

    Outside the 4th century monastery, it could seem more difficult to interpret as symbolic "the heavenly Jerusalem", instead of the physical one.


    Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews

     

    There is also a lot of discussion like it is the crusades, or Europe is oppressing the Muslims.

    But in really it doesn't match the populations perfectly, even a significant part of Palestinian Arabs are more European in origin than a significant part of Israeli Jews.


    These orthodox.. They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.
     
    You just need god (or some more people like Joseph Smith) to say to that Utah is the "promised land", there would be wars between them all for a holy salt lake instead of the interesting historicals sites of the Middle East.

    hese orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.
     
    These people which wear at all times small hats on the head, are "Datim Leumi" (National Religious), which is subgroup of Orthodox, very different from Haredim (which are like Amish). They are similar to Mormons. It's like if 19th century Mormons (who were sometimes rebelling against the state) were 10% of the American population.

    In Israel's society, they have higher than average income,* live middle class lifestyle, build modern housing with cleaner streets, pay taxes, have high education level. So, they are economically useful part of the society. They also often seem to support the secular state.

    But the religious cults can also be dangerous for the state, producing some of the radicals as e.g. with messianic belief, even killing Prime Minister Rabin. Instead of just voting, they can use physical force, moving in illegal settlements.

    Without two-state solution, Israel probably will not survive as a functional country in the long term, so it's possible the religious nationalists can not just a dangerous trend for Israel, but even would help to bury Israel to the trashcan of history by preventing disengagement from the West Bank.

    There is spectrum of some moderation among the datim leumim though. Some of them are quite anti-racist. Some are just moderates that use religious rhetoric. For example, Naftali Bennett after he was elected, he paused settlements and was behaving like more liberal Mitt Romney, leading the diverse government of environmentalists, LGBT activists, even allied to the Islamist party "Ra'am".

    -

    *While Haredim have the lowest income of all groups in Israel and the highest male unemployment rate. But Haredim are only interested in continuing their life-style, don't have the same effect for the external policy.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  406. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    @ Dmitry, if you read my comment carefully, you will see three things 1) I was writing about the time of adulthood of my own kids. That is the next two generations. 2) I was worried about what might (or quite likely would) happen 3) It is not about Revolution that I wrote but about societal collapse of major proportions. The type of situation that William Gibson has sarcastically termed The Jackpot in his latest series of books.

    My reply to Coconuts (whose comments I always appreciate and read very carefully) was initially motivated by the question our friend Bromance of three kingdoms (whose comments I also usually take very seriously) has asked LatW (another of my favorite commenters). I guess that is the necessary background for understanding what I wrote about, the comments about NRx and Ned Land included.

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion. Speaking of which, where's Sylvio ? Didn't see him commenting lately.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @S

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    The Alizée video from earlier reminded me of this. I find it evocative of the period in the early 2000s when I was younger and our political discussions might have been more about the artificiality and low standards of mass entertainment products than race and socialism. Personally I was maybe wondering whether the hedonistic attitudes were too strong and would cause some future social problems (I had been reading Houellebecq), but the mood felt clearly different to now, more relaxed and optimistic.

    [MORE]

    I recall having some premonition of existential doom for a couple of years in my early 20s, at the time I thought it was to do with an important relationship ending, student lifestyle, things I had been reading or had to study. Looking back now possibly it was because there were already hints of where things might be going longer term. I had to read some early queer theory stuff for a course and got the feeling that stuff was going to take over culture at some point.

    I tend to understand what we are seeing now as a combination of technological change, where more power is concentrated in fewer hands, the related transhumanist tendencies, major demographic shifts (as you were pointing out with the growth in the Muslim populations) and the coming to maturity in the West of the cultural trends that first started emerging in the 60s. This would be feminism, the sexual revolution, the counter-culture and decolonisation and so on.

    I think some people were maybe thinking about the implications of technological change (Nick Land and Warwick University’s cybernetics research unit have been mentioned). In the UK I don’t remember anyone mainstream thinking of the implications of serious demographic change, I suspect discussing the ethnic aspects would have been a relatively taboo subject.

    For a long time things were still being run by actual 1950s boomers and people born before the end of WW2, I see them as having been influenced by an earlier culture in ways that limited the impact of the 1960s cultural trends. Whereas what we are seeing now are generations much more immersed and shaped by them coming to the forefront.

    This studio version of Moi Lolita has 134 million views:

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts

    It's interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.

    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.

    I hope to think it's because French are such cultural people, they are reading books. But I think something bad also happens with the French films after maybe 1970* - replacement by commercial advertising.

    -
    *Although there is also global problem as Yevardian was saying last month he prefers the 1970s American films than the 1980s https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5746660


    impact of the 1960s cultural trends
     
    1960s "counter-culture" trend was relatively still soulful, "handmade", nonindustrialized. It reminds of earlier times, in some way rebellion against the industrialization of pop culture in the 1950s. This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it's rapidly converted to an industrial product (in mid-1960s, the famous singers were giving free concerts in San Francisco, by 1970s some of the wealthiest people in the world).

    Replies: @Coconuts

  407. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...surprising number...
     
    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious...why not also look into Italian cousine before they brought tomatoes from America? Surprising analogies can be found...only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.

    Regarding the bright Western future and the surprisingly good next decade about to happen: it is impossible to know timing of what is likely to happen in the future, that's what makes it so interesting. My point about the West being basically f..ed doesn't address next decade...you could be right, there will be one, or even two more spurts of good life. I agree that some potential scenarios - like the 2 billion Africans heading up north - will be addressed because they have to be. But it changes the whole system, the way society manages itself - there will be other consequences.

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ...culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children - if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us - because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens. Maybe not next decade, possibly in the 2030's...maybe even later...but there is no way back from nothing, and too many in the West have embraced the nothing life...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious

    Do you really think it is unlikely that this war is less lethal than WWI for an army that has been mostly content to defend from ultra-fortified positions and suffered no decisive defeats?

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ…culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children – if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us – because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens.

    “Gender confusion” is a fad born of people trying to move away from the idea that your sex dictates your personality. Directionally, it represents an improvement in understanding, though with excesses that will fade.

    I don’t care which adults people choose to have sex with nor do I care about the manner they choose to have sex. In my experience, the stranger their desires the more spiritually/psychologically repressed they are, and their odd sex is used to try to understand that. And please no one interrupt to argue that the progressives want to legalise child molestation. They most certainly don’t. I have no interest in arguing that point, nor likely does Beckow, any more than arguing that Donald Trump is a Nazi.

    Fertility rates are low, especially in Eastern and Southern Europe and East Asia. But this will take many decades to be a profound problem and by then we’ll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything. Predicting past that point is pointless. In the meantime, it will just be a cause for sadness and some degree of mediocrity. One cause among many, with many other factors acting in the opposite direction.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...we’ll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything...
     
    You have this touching faith in "AI" and similar fashionable concepts. It is not an answer, it is like a deus-ex-machina in a badly written movie. You ignore realities and project that some miraculous human-modifying invention will solve it. Not bloody likely...

    In the meantime...some degree of mediocrity...
     
    Sure, it is not at all bad, mediocre perhaps, a comfortable plateau, etc...and it will take years to get bad enough to matter. But my point that the West has peaked and is in a gradual decline stands. People who are so unsure of themselves that they resort to censorship, who can't discuss what is going around them openly - from migrants, to homos, to C19, to the war - who can't fight when it gets too risky (really, sending arms is the definition of 'not fighting'), and who instead annoyingly preach to the others with silly slogans like 'values', 'openness', and the perennial "freedom!"

    What the f..ck, if you would practice it more you wouldn't have to preach so much. AI won't fix that, it will probably make it worse...:)...have fun making those 'Aryan babies'...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  408. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...surprising number...
     
    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious...why not also look into Italian cousine before they brought tomatoes from America? Surprising analogies can be found...only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.

    Regarding the bright Western future and the surprisingly good next decade about to happen: it is impossible to know timing of what is likely to happen in the future, that's what makes it so interesting. My point about the West being basically f..ed doesn't address next decade...you could be right, there will be one, or even two more spurts of good life. I agree that some potential scenarios - like the 2 billion Africans heading up north - will be addressed because they have to be. But it changes the whole system, the way society manages itself - there will be other consequences.

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ...culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children - if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us - because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens. Maybe not next decade, possibly in the 2030's...maybe even later...but there is no way back from nothing, and too many in the West have embraced the nothing life...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    “surprising number…”

    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff

    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.

    only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.

    This number intuitively seems rather low, though unlike you, your interlocutor is at least using some reasoning. Too many prominent people (Olympic athletes, artists, etc.) are dying on the battlefield. It could be that these people are particularly patriotic and brave, finding themselves in the worst circumstances. But it suggests high numbers.

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been. So the actual number is probably somewhere in between, our former host guessed around 80k but it was a couple of weeks ago.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers
     
    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k? how many of those were Donbas militias? Do I have to round it up or down for you? Take your pills and stop embarrassing yourself with your infantile anger.

    If you press me, I would guess 100k casualties for Ukies, and maybe half of that for the Russian side. We know that currently a few hundred Ukies die or are disabled on the Donbas front every day - see today's NY Times article that says so (behind a pay wall). Similar numbers are used in German, Czech, British press. It is a meat grinder and Ukies are holding the short stick.

    The bloodbath wouldn't be happening if Washington didn't decide to move Nato to Russia's borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn't enthusiastically sign up for it. This is the most pre-announced war in a long time - 'red line' etc...

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking "all this so we can be in Nato"...missiles right on the long Russian border "so we can better threaten and bomb the damn Moskali"...who thinks like that? Do you really think that 10-20 years from now people will look back and say it was all worth it?

    Replies: @AP

    , @Gerard1234
    @AP

    Must this sociopathic, autistic, fantasist fuckup with severe problems , who goes around with zero life, whoring and being humiliated (but protected by anonymity) on every pro-Russian website ( not Russian language website, of course) be allowed to continuously comment here and on all the other sites with sockpuppet accounts, getting hemorrhoids all day?

    Misdirection against Beckow:


    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.
     
    Anyway - 137000 is the total of every patriot demilitirising and denazifying 404, from about 111-115 BTG's ( in itself a fake assumption from 404). Until the end of 2022 , not even close to 137000 Russian/LDNR soldiers have been in combat against ukronazis you idiot.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2022/08/11/7362749/ - 137000, the statement of the Russian taxpayer Ukrainian Defence Minister Reznikov, appointment by the Russian taxpayer "Ukrainian" President Zelensky.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.
     
    Bimbo idiocy

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been.

     

    LMAO - a piece of cretinism that makes zero sense in any way. The only thing making ukronazi deathcult still going is the relatively small size of Russian forces in combat, heavily outnumbered - that includes those deployed since the partial mobilisation

    Replies: @Jazman

  409. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    Islam’s relation to the conflict, is also just religion.
     
    On the surface, sure. But you are missing the power dynamics behind Muslim support for Palestine. It’s not about scripture but more about Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews. The Islamic world’s focus on reason, science, objectivity and rationality has left it in a deep spiritual void; which it seeks to escape by domineering and bullying behavior.

    But the only lasting solution to their spiritual crisis would be to shift from the right-hemisphere to the left-hemisphere part of the brain; re-establishing the primacy of faith over reason; subjectivity over objectivity; and religion over science.


    Today, those Christian Zionists which read the New Testament for prophecy, support the modern state of Israel, because they hope for the Second Coming, and of things Jesus says like Mark 13 and Matthew 24 that this will happen soon after destruction of the Temple.
     
    My impression is that there’s a wide range of views within Christianity on the topic of Zionism.

    Catholics and Orthodox Christians don’t seem to much care for it.

    Protestants in Europe are secularized so they don’t care much either; in fact probably support Palestine more than Israel.

    Arab Christians are fairly religious and practice some of the oldest forms of Christianity; but they oppose Israel, perhaps for ethnic more than religious reasons.

    It seems that only the Americano is a staunch supporter of the Zionist project.

    Is this more scriptural in basis or a product of some Anglo ideology of philo-Semitism?

    Why don’t Catholics and Eastern Christians follow scripture in the same manner?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    On the surface, sure. But you are missing the power dynamics behind Muslim support for Palestine. It’s not about scripture but more about Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews. The Islamic world’s focus on reason, science, objectivity and rationality has left it in a deep spiritual void; which it seeks to escape by domineering and bullying behavior.

    But the only lasting solution to their spiritual crisis would be to shift from the right-hemisphere to the left-hemisphere part of the brain; re-establishing the primacy of faith over reason; subjectivity over objectivity; and religion over science.

    A very significant and penetrating comment, not only as it sheds light on the Middle East conflict, but on the human condition in general and on many themes we talk about on this blog.

    Feeling that one is “worthy” – seems to be perhaps the most crucial human need, and the lack of this feeling seems to power any number of wars and conflicts, and perhaps even all of them, and to be behind most discontent and psychological suffering in life, and behind most of not all of the deep political disaffection in the West today, especially on the right.

    Who really believes Russia’s “practical” reasons for it’s war? It is about Russians feeling “worthy” – being able to dominate their region.

    Fill this need for people, and would people live in harmony? Are feelings of inadequacy and the need to feel one has value the main driver of the whole strange kaleidoscope of events that constitute world history?

    But how to give people this feeling?

    It seems – somehow and strangely – that orienting oneself primarily around science and reason leads eventually to a collapse in feelings of self worth and value. This is most obvious in the West, but as Yahya points out, it’s happening in the Muslim world, and we see it happening in places like Japan.

    But why should that be?

    And yet, obviously there is a kind of “defensive religion” that is based on feelings of threatened self worth and that leads to conflict and personal misery. History is too full of examples for this to need any proving here.

    But at the same time, can the “right” kind of religion be the only viable cure? The sort of religion that focuses on morality, being centered and rooted in Being, and having an invisible underlying connection to everything and the All (the classical metaphysics of all major faiths).

    After all, the most striking thing about science and reason is that it is at best amoral – might cultivating morality lead to a feeling of being justified (The extreme to be avoided here would be self-righteousness)? And it’s neglect lead to a loss in feelings of personal value?

    All classical civilizations had a surpassing concern with “virtue” – discovering what it is and cultivating it. Can the modern modern neglect of this discipline be one of the leading causes in the crisis of feelings of self-worth?

    Another striking features of science and faith is alienation – one is no longer “rooted” in Being, one feels untethered and adrift in a dead, uncaring universe. What impact might this have on mental health and feelings of self worth?

    Finally, science and reason creates a feeling of disconnection from everything and the All, through it’s attitude of atomizing everything – yet can one feel one has worth as a mere “atom”, seperate from everything else?

    Of course, a “mere” return to religion would carry the danger of returning to the wrong kind of defensive, threatened ego religion that is itself proto-modern – in that it prefigures and contains in embryo the tendencies that came to full blown fruition in the modern period – and would be no panacea.

    Rather, with the benefit of hindsight and history a judicious and discerning “rescue” of that solid element “within” religion – often buried deeply – that has always been the only reason for valuing it.

    Is that the task of the next century?

    • Agree: Yahya
  410. @Leaves No Shadow
    I think everyone needs to get some context for deaths in war. Britain lost 700,000 in WW1. WW1 lasted 51 months.

    In other words, Britain lost 13,700 men a month. Or 164,000 a year. The war in Ukraine is now one year long.

    Ukraine likely has a rotational pool of 1 million men, whereas Britain used 5 million over the course of the war. These two numbers are not directly comparable, because it does not define how long each man operated in theatre, however the basic ratio is 1:5.

    Ukraine is conservative in its military strategy. Britain was substantially less so. There have been no massed Ukrainian charges into machine gun fire. In fact, the vast bulk of Ukrainian fighting has been conducted from heavily fortified positions that ensure that artillery fire can at best hope to suppress, rather than kill.

    Ukraine also has far superior medical care to Britain in WW1 for obvious reasons, like the invention of antibiotics.

    Therefore I think it likely that 164,000 ÷ 5 = 33,000 is a reasonable approximation of their deaths.

    They have conducted few assaults or even probing actions, and when they have done so, they either did it with overwhelming force (NE) or with less fighting and a focus on cutting logistics (Kherson). This is very different from Russia, which has taken substantial risks with their manpower.

    As for what this means for the war, we can assume that Ukraine has potential for at least 2 million men under arms. Probably it is twice that, but I'll stick with this minimum going forward.

    33,000 deaths is likely about 150,000 men total rendered combat ineffective, either through injury or those deaths.

    A force of 2 million can probably sustain 750,000 injuries and deaths combined before potentially being defeated by attrition. This is just over a third that renders US units "combat ineffective." Again a conservative number.

    This means that Russia will need to, at the absolute minimum, maintain this war, at this tempo, for 4 more years, in order to even approach exhausting Ukraine's manpower. And realistically, it would be a lot more years, given both how conservative I was with these figures and that I've ignored all other potential sources of manpower.

    So if Russia aims to win via attrition, or "killing the enemy army", we can begin to have a conversation looking at whether this might happen from 2027 onwards.

    Can we please stop talking about how Russia will destroy the Ukrainian Army now?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The casualties of ww1 are well documented.

    By the Front and by Nation and Month by Month. The combat is intensive. Teh Ukies have counter attacked wherever end whenever they can like the Germans on the Western Front while they have occupied concrete bunkers.

    The Ukies may very well have 100k dead.

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Wokechoke

    This is possibly not objective, the numbers are supposedly leaked numbers as of 2/7/23 published in Turkey:
    - 157.000 dead (Ukie soldiers, militias)
    - 234.000 wounded
    - 200 instructors and 2.4k non-Ukie soldiers (Poland, Balts, Romanians...)
    - 5360 foreign mercenaries
    - 17.230 POWs.
    It seems on the upper end and the wounded-dead ratio is too close. It is possible, but I would guess that the number is between the 33k and this number, probably around 100k (the EU lady is too stupid to misspeak, she saw that number somewhere and blurted it out - she didn't make it up).

    The point is not precisely how many. There is no acceptable number - we must remember that these men are dying for the desire to be in Nato. Think about it, the desire to be in Nato. I suspect most of the dead had no desire to be 'in Nato' and didn't know much about it. The Ukie elites are an incredible piece of work...it only makes sense if they have no desire to stick around after it is over.

  411. Reading this column the last couple of days, watching the news on the tube (“tube” for you younger readers means TV) with the tragic earthquake in Turkey/Syria with thousands of casualties, the continuing war in Ukraine, all the political nonsense, reminds me of this great song that I used to love listening to when I was younger. It’s almost unbelievable that the lyrics cast those that practiced a homosexual lifestyle disparagingly calling them “dykes and fairies”. “Marijuana dispensaries” now dot the landscape, as Steve Sailer points out:

    Fortunately, there are all the good side effects of legalization/decriminalization of marijuana. Crime is way down, the streets are safer because the drivers are high rather than drunk, etc etc.

    Oh, wait, that didn’t happen.

    No it didn’t, but drug rehab centers have shown a great uptick in patients, even for those “addicted to marijuana” (this too wasn’t supposed to happen either). I recently stated that “the times they are a changing”, and I’ll now add that we’re entering a “brave new world”. Or perhaps, a sicker and more dangerous one?

    A great tune. Anybody here ever here it?….

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    A great tune. Anybody here ever hear it?….

    Replies: @songbird

  412. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Zionists weren’t particularly religious,
     
    Sure, secular Labor Zionism was the ruling party from 1948-1977. Israeli Prime Ministers are all secular until Bennett in 2021, was the first religious person to be Prime Minister. He was moderate kind of religious person. And now it's secular again Prime Minister and President (President Isaac Herzog, who has an LGBT son).

    But for people who were part of religious cults for thousands of years, the first generations of secularism can seem superficial, and you can see they follow religious themes with a different terminology.

    With secular Zionism, they rebuild the ancient language of Hebrew, where most of the words have a religious theme. They are buying parts of the Holy Land since the 19th century.

    It could seem like they secular Zionists were preparing for the religious prophecies, like the "left hand is not knowing what the right hand is doing". This is the claim of Gush Emunim, who believe the secular Zionists were a hidden hand of God, as the result of the secular Zionist behavior is often to support the religious objective.

    Even those secular romantic motives for Jews wanting to be in Israel, are descended from the religious importance of land, when it becomes theme for the Labor Zionism. e.g. "redeeming the land", "returning the Maccabees".

    Israelis typically say that in 1967, when Israel attains the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the national mood was flooded with the messianic religious emotions. And as the secular Israeli writers say, messianic hypnosis continued until they didn't prepare for future tragedies (1973, intifadas, etc).

    Secular Israelis write "Israel loses discipline after 1967". Israel forget practical, limited objectives, and the society was flooded with too many religious emotions from the holy sites, becoming a kind of religious hubris.

    So, Israel enters the religious hypnosis within a generation of its secular beginning*, it's perhaps an indication of not completely secular motives connected with the land.

    In 1977, Labor loses the first election and they don't have the political monopoly. Nowadays the religious groups can become "kingmaker" in the proportional representation system. so at least some of the religious groups usually have to be part of the political decisions even though the religious don't have the political majority.

    -

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrjRqm35mY.)

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That's the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVOiw6at3Y


    Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or

     

    It could have solved the social "Jewish question" of 19th century Europe. Today, it would be a developed EU country with a lot of high-tech industry, although I would guess only a secular Jewish minority and majority secular descendants of Christians.

    If it was somewhere like Australia, it could have avoid deaths of the holocaust.

    But it wouldn't be useful for Judaism as religion. This concept of land, Eretz Yisrael, is central in the religion. For example, the traditional religious people like Ethiopian Jews probably would not be very happy to go to Poland

    Yemeni Jews were already immigrating to Palestine when it was majority (Muslim) Arab parts of the Ottoman empire. Haredim were also going there already before the secular immigration.

    Those religious, would have continued immigrating there.


    -
    *
    Although there is secular management, Israel is not exactly like a secular Benelux country. Every Friday night in Jerusalem, there are 100,000 people trying to talk to god on the ruins of the temple.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123, @Greasy William

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)

    The Jews of Judea spent 2000 years getting their land back. Trying a “land for peace” deal by withdrawing from Gaza was extremely controversial. The effort catastrophically failed. It increased the amount of suffering on all sides.

    The psychology in practice is quite clear:

    • The Muslim Occupiers in Judea and Samaria view land concessions by Jews as a weakness. Something to be ruthlessly exploited by Islam.
    • After Gaza, the indigenous religion of Judaism has figured this out. They now grasp it instinctively. Jews can never offer anything that might be perceived as weak, regardless of how it is actually intended.

    Any serious effort at a deal has to grasp that the misconduct of Islam has permanently closed the door on “land for peace” as an approach. The idea of a 2 state solution is dead because Muslims killed it. The more that is made clear to the world, the better off everyone will be.

    The smart move for the current Israeli government is to wait another 6-12 months for Not-The-President Biden to finish becoming totally irrelevant. Have a minister from one of the supporting parties finalize the long awaited E1 construction plan. On the ground, it would irrevocably & visibly demonstrate that Jerusalem us a single unified city. There would be no way to steal a piece of it to be given to another entity. By doing it when a struggling non-President is flailing in DC it would become fiat accompli while the anti-Semitic Democrat Party cannot effectively respond.

    PEACE 😇

  413. @Mr. Hack
    Reading this column the last couple of days, watching the news on the tube ("tube" for you younger readers means TV) with the tragic earthquake in Turkey/Syria with thousands of casualties, the continuing war in Ukraine, all the political nonsense, reminds me of this great song that I used to love listening to when I was younger. It's almost unbelievable that the lyrics cast those that practiced a homosexual lifestyle disparagingly calling them "dykes and fairies". "Marijuana dispensaries" now dot the landscape, as Steve Sailer points out:

    Fortunately, there are all the good side effects of legalization/decriminalization of marijuana. Crime is way down, the streets are safer because the drivers are high rather than drunk, etc etc.

    Oh, wait, that didn’t happen.
     

    No it didn't, but drug rehab centers have shown a great uptick in patients, even for those "addicted to marijuana" (this too wasn't supposed to happen either). I recently stated that "the times they are a changing", and I'll now add that we're entering a "brave new world". Or perhaps, a sicker and more dangerous one?

    https://youtu.be/CTUsFm0BAu8

    A great tune. Anybody here ever here it?....

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    A great tune. Anybody here ever hear it?….

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, I have heard it, Mr. Hack. Used to listen to classic rock sometimes, while doing my homework.

    But they shouldn't have said "population keeps on breeding." It may have seemed like it was true, but TFR was already on a sharp downward path, and soon it would drop through the floor. Definitely, hasn't made the place any better.

    But, maybe, the stop having so many kids thing wasn't causative but more of a sign that people were starting to notice the difficulties involved.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  414. @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    A great tune. Anybody here ever hear it?….

    Replies: @songbird

    Oh, I have heard it, Mr. Hack. Used to listen to classic rock sometimes, while doing my homework.

    But they shouldn’t have said “population keeps on breeding.” It may have seemed like it was true, but TFR was already on a sharp downward path, and soon it would drop through the floor. Definitely, hasn’t made the place any better.

    But, maybe, the stop having so many kids thing wasn’t causative but more of a sign that people were starting to notice the difficulties involved.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    The song game out in 1971, and at that time, it looked like the population was growing. It still is, but the locals aren't keeping up, therefore the resulting influx of immigrants. Housing problems probably started back then too, it felt like the cities were getting crowded. It's gotten worse over time, come take a drive through Phoenix sometime...probably the same in England too, as the Ten Years After were a British group. A great song though, I really like the bluesey moaning of the lead guitar throughout....I came across it recently, accidentally on YouTube. I forgot how much I used to really enjoy it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Gerard1234

  415. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    since one can’t just go around putting everything on a shelf waiting for civilization to collapse.
     
    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years. Once the Yen goes, the Euro goes. Once the Euro goes, the Pound goes. Once the Pound goes, the Dollar goes. Then we will have honest (or at least, less dishonest money) again and society will be fundamentally changed for the better.

    In the meantime, there is nothing to be done other than wait it out.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years.

    Your use of the jargon fiat shows that you do not understand the process.

    The correct term is debt. The money is borrowed from our children and their children and their children. As long as they are good for it, or presumed good for it there isn’t any problem at all. People have been griping your exact gripe for fifty freakin years and it keeps on doing just fine.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    fiat == money not backed by commodities


    People have been griping your exact gripe for fifty freakin years and it keeps on doing just fine.
     
    It's true that most people who recognized the unsustainability of the fiat system have consistently, and wrongly, predicted imminent doom for the dollar. The global fiat regime that has existed since 1971 has proven to be much more durable than anyone could have reasonably anticipated. But it is categorically not doing "just fine"; signs are everywhere that the regime is collapsing. Eventually it's going to collapse, almost certainly in the next 20 years and hopefully in the next 10.
  416. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, I have heard it, Mr. Hack. Used to listen to classic rock sometimes, while doing my homework.

    But they shouldn't have said "population keeps on breeding." It may have seemed like it was true, but TFR was already on a sharp downward path, and soon it would drop through the floor. Definitely, hasn't made the place any better.

    But, maybe, the stop having so many kids thing wasn't causative but more of a sign that people were starting to notice the difficulties involved.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    The song game out in 1971, and at that time, it looked like the population was growing. It still is, but the locals aren’t keeping up, therefore the resulting influx of immigrants. Housing problems probably started back then too, it felt like the cities were getting crowded. It’s gotten worse over time, come take a drive through Phoenix sometime…probably the same in England too, as the Ten Years After were a British group. A great song though, I really like the bluesey moaning of the lead guitar throughout….I came across it recently, accidentally on YouTube. I forgot how much I used to really enjoy it.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Definitely been a decline in music, since the days of classic rock. One reason I used to listen to it was that I felt the modern rock stations were often too angsty and depressing. And classic rock even has a lot of angst.

    Know a guy who was in the national guard during Vietnam, and he said that his father told him that the war was intended in part as population control.

    Perhaps, it wasn't really so, but it is staggering for me to think that a man born in I'll guess 1910 or probably before, in rural Canada, could come to such a conclusion. Maybe, he was picking up on some negative signs at the time.

    Interestingly, I heard recently that Manhattan has less people in it now that it did a 100 years ago. Guess when they tore down the tenements in some of these places, they never built back the same capacity in roomier apartments, though it is probably not true of every place.

    , @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack


    My little Ukrainian community in Phoenix
     
    LMAO, some homo S&M group is not "Ukrainian community" you dumb prick. There is no such thing. I have been to America many times all over and NEVER, ever heard anybody refer to "Ukrainian" community, neighbourhood, parade, Church or anything. It's as fake as a 12-legged Giraffe you POS. Since 2014,and mostly since last year is when 99.9% of Americans have heard of these "people"/psychiatric condition called Ukrainian.

    Russian German, Irish, Italian, Dutch, Jewish,Swedish, Fillapino, Cuban, Mexican,Japanese, Korean,Greek, Hungarian, Indian... even Welsh, Scottish, Armenian and others of these peoples you just hear from someone or see something that make clear these are longstanding diasporas and communities in US.

    Upto 2014, no American had heard of them. I am sure everybody else here can support my claims. How fake and pathetic an "ethnicity" do you have to be that nobody has heard of you? Even 2nd generation Poles in US, LOL

    Not one single settlement in America or North America named after ANY "Ukrainian" town or word. LMAO. What more proof they are fake do you want idiot? 100% of Americans think "ko" and "yuk" ending familia are stereotypical RUSSIAN names.

    As for that village idiot mother of yours - she probably didn't even call herself "Ukrainian" until Stalin created UN seat for ukrop SSR - Galician trash are the exact opposite of "fiercely proud" Ukrainians

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  417. @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    Without watching the plot or the story...

    Surely it would have been more interesting if they guy ranting at the bar had been reborn as an SS officer in a bombarded Berlin or as a White colonist in South Africa having his wife raped and murdered in front of his eyes?

    "See whitey, you complaining about this shit only speeds up the extermination we have planned for you."

    Replies: @songbird

    It’s a strange movie. The second segment (directed by Spielberg) is a story about a numinous negro who travels to old age homes, to make the old folks young again, by showing them how to have fun.

    [MORE]

    People have said that there is something wrong with Spielberg, and he was making strange jokes while making Raiders of the Lost Ark about the age gap between Indy and Marion and how old she was when they first met and had a romance. Well, I got similar vibes here, after the old folks were turned into kids. One of the older ones, dances with a girl missing her front teeth, and then just a tiny bit later mentions the prospect of having sex again.

    The movie Big was written by Spielberg’s sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways. One being that the main character’s mother is under the misapprehension that he (a boy) was abducted by a man, and the character rolls with it, while trying to talk to her on the phone.

    And what is funny about the second segment of the Twilight Zone movie is that it follows on the first, and in case, anyone wasn’t thinking about who was responsible for the first, Spielberg makes the ethnic identity of one of his characters really sharp (with multiple references to it.) And since there is no other similar character with a different identity, it makes one think about the identity of Spielberg.

    It’s funny because, IMO, it would be hard to make worse propaganda. The first segment was so ham-fisted that it makes me wonder if drugs were involved.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    The movie Big was written by Spielberg’s sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways.
     
    Who finds "Big" creepy? This is sub-SJW outrage seeking.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

  418. @songbird
    @Wokechoke

    It's a strange movie. The second segment (directed by Spielberg) is a story about a numinous negro who travels to old age homes, to make the old folks young again, by showing them how to have fun.

    People have said that there is something wrong with Spielberg, and he was making strange jokes while making Raiders of the Lost Ark about the age gap between Indy and Marion and how old she was when they first met and had a romance. Well, I got similar vibes here, after the old folks were turned into kids. One of the older ones, dances with a girl missing her front teeth, and then just a tiny bit later mentions the prospect of having sex again.

    The movie Big was written by Spielberg's sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways. One being that the main character's mother is under the misapprehension that he (a boy) was abducted by a man, and the character rolls with it, while trying to talk to her on the phone.

    And what is funny about the second segment of the Twilight Zone movie is that it follows on the first, and in case, anyone wasn't thinking about who was responsible for the first, Spielberg makes the ethnic identity of one of his characters really sharp (with multiple references to it.) And since there is no other similar character with a different identity, it makes one think about the identity of Spielberg.

    It's funny because, IMO, it would be hard to make worse propaganda. The first segment was so ham-fisted that it makes me wonder if drugs were involved.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    The movie Big was written by Spielberg’s sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways.

    Who finds “Big” creepy? This is sub-SJW outrage seeking.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You don't think that it is creepy that a 12 y.o. has casual sex with a 30 y.o. woman?

    Or that the character's mother thinks he's been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right? Because I don't want to spell it out. But there is only one kind of man who would abduct a boy - and probably murder him afterwards), and the film treats it like a joke.

    Maybe, it is a hard plot hole to write out, but no doubt there were at least a half-dozen better routes.

    You may be showing your oft professed lack of sense of disgust by thinking the film is not creepy.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Big is in retrospect, awkward.

  419. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    The song game out in 1971, and at that time, it looked like the population was growing. It still is, but the locals aren't keeping up, therefore the resulting influx of immigrants. Housing problems probably started back then too, it felt like the cities were getting crowded. It's gotten worse over time, come take a drive through Phoenix sometime...probably the same in England too, as the Ten Years After were a British group. A great song though, I really like the bluesey moaning of the lead guitar throughout....I came across it recently, accidentally on YouTube. I forgot how much I used to really enjoy it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Gerard1234

    Definitely been a decline in music, since the days of classic rock. One reason I used to listen to it was that I felt the modern rock stations were often too angsty and depressing. And classic rock even has a lot of angst.

    Know a guy who was in the national guard during Vietnam, and he said that his father told him that the war was intended in part as population control.

    Perhaps, it wasn’t really so, but it is staggering for me to think that a man born in I’ll guess 1910 or probably before, in rural Canada, could come to such a conclusion. Maybe, he was picking up on some negative signs at the time.

    Interestingly, I heard recently that Manhattan has less people in it now that it did a 100 years ago. Guess when they tore down the tenements in some of these places, they never built back the same capacity in roomier apartments, though it is probably not true of every place.

  420. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    The movie Big was written by Spielberg’s sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways.
     
    Who finds "Big" creepy? This is sub-SJW outrage seeking.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    You don’t think that it is creepy that a 12 y.o. has casual sex with a 30 y.o. woman?

    Or that the character’s mother thinks he’s been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right? Because I don’t want to spell it out. But there is only one kind of man who would abduct a boy – and probably murder him afterwards), and the film treats it like a joke.

    Maybe, it is a hard plot hole to write out, but no doubt there were at least a half-dozen better routes.

    You may be showing your oft professed lack of sense of disgust by thinking the film is not creepy.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    No, it is a story with obviously supernatural and unrealistic elements. And a nice one.

    Did you find the bit in Lord of the Rings where the hobbits were encouraged by ancient Tom Bombadil to frolic naked in the fields creepy?

    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?

    Or Benjamin Button dying in his lover Daisy's arms when he has regressed to being an infant?

    Or are you horrified at the implied rape when one body-swapping brother has sex with the other brother's fling unbeknownst to her in the fun comedy The Change-Up?

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    You my good sir seem to be obsolete.

    Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago. Spielberg was being a visionary artist.

    What's the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.

    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance? Conservatives are prone to it and progressives are mostly immune. Science!

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy. That isn't science. Any more. It sure did used to be.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

  421. @Mikhail

    Michael Tracey
    @mtracey
    The former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett just confirmed what any rational observer could've surmised: Russia and Ukraine reached a preliminary agreement during the early phase of the war — "Both sides very much wanted a ceasefire," Bennett said — but the US "blocked it"
    11:41 AM · Feb 6, 2023
    ·2.4M
    Views
     



    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1622636568165986304

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    Read the full article. (1)

    Discussing how Western leaders felt about his mediation efforts, Bennett said then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson took an “aggressive line” while French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz were more “pragmatic.” Bennett said President Biden adopted “both” positions.

    But ultimately, the Western leaders opposed Bennet’s efforts. “I’ll say this in the broad sense. I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking Putin and not [negotiate],” Bennett said.

    America mentioned last.

    Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine didn’t stop with Bennett’s efforts. Later in March, Russian and Ukrainian officials met in Istanbul, Turkey, and followed up with virtual consultations. According to the account of former US officials speaking to Foreign Affairs, the two sides agreed on the framework for a tentative deal. Russian officials, including Putin, have said publicly that a deal was close following the Istanbul talks.

    America mentioned in conjunction with progress being made.

    Boris Johnson visited Kyiv in April 2022, urging Zelensky not to negotiate with Russia. According to a report from Ukrainska Pravda, he said even if Ukraine was ready to sign a deal with Russia, Kyiv’s Western backers were not.

    America not mentioned as things back slide.
    ___

    The analysis is quite straightforward.

    Q: Did Europe screw up a potential Russia/Ukraine deal?

    A: It is highly probable that the European Empire acted maliciously. The U.S. was at best a junior player carrying the load for European national leaders.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/former-israeli-pm-bennett-says-us-blocked-his-attempts-russia-ukraine-peace-deal

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123


    A: It is highly probable that the European Empire acted maliciously. The U.S. was at best a junior player carrying the load for European national leaders.
     
    So now, Boris Johnson, who at that time was a leader of Great Britain, that had ceded from the EU, was Brussels spokesperson on foreign relations to Ukraine? Is he also a muslim by your estimations too? Your conspiracy theories are getting kookier and kookier all of the time. You should be writing novels, comic books at least. :-)
  422. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You don't think that it is creepy that a 12 y.o. has casual sex with a 30 y.o. woman?

    Or that the character's mother thinks he's been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right? Because I don't want to spell it out. But there is only one kind of man who would abduct a boy - and probably murder him afterwards), and the film treats it like a joke.

    Maybe, it is a hard plot hole to write out, but no doubt there were at least a half-dozen better routes.

    You may be showing your oft professed lack of sense of disgust by thinking the film is not creepy.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    No, it is a story with obviously supernatural and unrealistic elements. And a nice one.

    Did you find the bit in Lord of the Rings where the hobbits were encouraged by ancient Tom Bombadil to frolic naked in the fields creepy?

    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?

    Or Benjamin Button dying in his lover Daisy’s arms when he has regressed to being an infant?

    Or are you horrified at the implied rape when one body-swapping brother has sex with the other brother’s fling unbeknownst to her in the fun comedy The Change-Up?

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?
     
    It's not about the age difference of the actors in Big. It's about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.

    I'm actually a critic of the hyper-feminist rhetoric which seems to predominate now and to equate any man admiring any woman <18 to pedophilia. Doesn't mean I approve of Epstein Island or enjo-kosai.

    >Or that the character’s mother thinks he’s been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right?
     
    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.
     
    Don't like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus's antics are primarily about his virility. I wouldn't like to see them in a movie, but they are forgivable in story form.

    Anyway, as tawdry as they may seem, they resulted in the creation of demi-gods, and I always thought that was an interesting concept. Would guess an important part of the PIE religion. To me, it represents the divine aspects of man, or how in the Christian faith, man is said to be made in God's image. Or how man seems to sometimes exceed himself, to accomplish the wondrous.

    Haven't seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don't recall well.)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQIiFDwCXXY

    Replies: @AP, @A123

  423. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    The casualties of ww1 are well documented.

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E_JYmo4B7h8/VR3tYljRURI/AAAAAAAACBQ/q_CFiHp3mHY/s1600/MontlhyCas.png

    By the Front and by Nation and Month by Month. The combat is intensive. Teh Ukies have counter attacked wherever end whenever they can like the Germans on the Western Front while they have occupied concrete bunkers.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_8yRcDY1i4c/VR3tYvexeaI/AAAAAAAACBU/ZizJZt4TUdE/s1600/casCum.png


    The Ukies may very well have 100k dead.

    Replies: @Beckow

    This is possibly not objective, the numbers are supposedly leaked numbers as of 2/7/23 published in Turkey:
    – 157.000 dead (Ukie soldiers, militias)
    – 234.000 wounded
    – 200 instructors and 2.4k non-Ukie soldiers (Poland, Balts, Romanians…)
    – 5360 foreign mercenaries
    – 17.230 POWs.
    It seems on the upper end and the wounded-dead ratio is too close. It is possible, but I would guess that the number is between the 33k and this number, probably around 100k (the EU lady is too stupid to misspeak, she saw that number somewhere and blurted it out – she didn’t make it up).

    The point is not precisely how many. There is no acceptable number – we must remember that these men are dying for the desire to be in Nato. Think about it, the desire to be in Nato. I suspect most of the dead had no desire to be ‘in Nato’ and didn’t know much about it. The Ukie elites are an incredible piece of work…it only makes sense if they have no desire to stick around after it is over.

  424. @Dmitry
    @AP


    Zionists weren’t particularly religious,
     
    Sure, secular Labor Zionism was the ruling party from 1948-1977. Israeli Prime Ministers are all secular until Bennett in 2021, was the first religious person to be Prime Minister. He was moderate kind of religious person. And now it's secular again Prime Minister and President (President Isaac Herzog, who has an LGBT son).

    But for people who were part of religious cults for thousands of years, the first generations of secularism can seem superficial, and you can see they follow religious themes with a different terminology.

    With secular Zionism, they rebuild the ancient language of Hebrew, where most of the words have a religious theme. They are buying parts of the Holy Land since the 19th century.

    It could seem like they secular Zionists were preparing for the religious prophecies, like the "left hand is not knowing what the right hand is doing". This is the claim of Gush Emunim, who believe the secular Zionists were a hidden hand of God, as the result of the secular Zionist behavior is often to support the religious objective.

    Even those secular romantic motives for Jews wanting to be in Israel, are descended from the religious importance of land, when it becomes theme for the Labor Zionism. e.g. "redeeming the land", "returning the Maccabees".

    Israelis typically say that in 1967, when Israel attains the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the national mood was flooded with the messianic religious emotions. And as the secular Israeli writers say, messianic hypnosis continued until they didn't prepare for future tragedies (1973, intifadas, etc).

    Secular Israelis write "Israel loses discipline after 1967". Israel forget practical, limited objectives, and the society was flooded with too many religious emotions from the holy sites, becoming a kind of religious hubris.

    So, Israel enters the religious hypnosis within a generation of its secular beginning*, it's perhaps an indication of not completely secular motives connected with the land.

    In 1977, Labor loses the first election and they don't have the political monopoly. Nowadays the religious groups can become "kingmaker" in the proportional representation system. so at least some of the religious groups usually have to be part of the political decisions even though the religious don't have the political majority.

    -

    Removing settlers from Yamit (Sinai) in 1979 was difficult. Removing settlers from Gaza 2005 was a kind of brutal removing of religious girls from the synagogue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTrjRqm35mY.)

    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That's the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVOiw6at3Y


    Zionists considered areas other than Palestine for a Jewish homeland – somewhere in Poland or

     

    It could have solved the social "Jewish question" of 19th century Europe. Today, it would be a developed EU country with a lot of high-tech industry, although I would guess only a secular Jewish minority and majority secular descendants of Christians.

    If it was somewhere like Australia, it could have avoid deaths of the holocaust.

    But it wouldn't be useful for Judaism as religion. This concept of land, Eretz Yisrael, is central in the religion. For example, the traditional religious people like Ethiopian Jews probably would not be very happy to go to Poland

    Yemeni Jews were already immigrating to Palestine when it was majority (Muslim) Arab parts of the Ottoman empire. Haredim were also going there already before the secular immigration.

    Those religious, would have continued immigrating there.


    -
    *
    Although there is secular management, Israel is not exactly like a secular Benelux country. Every Friday night in Jerusalem, there are 100,000 people trying to talk to god on the ruins of the temple.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123, @Greasy William

    Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war

    It would be a guaranteed civil war which is why nobody seriously advocates it anymore

  425. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You don't think that it is creepy that a 12 y.o. has casual sex with a 30 y.o. woman?

    Or that the character's mother thinks he's been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right? Because I don't want to spell it out. But there is only one kind of man who would abduct a boy - and probably murder him afterwards), and the film treats it like a joke.

    Maybe, it is a hard plot hole to write out, but no doubt there were at least a half-dozen better routes.

    You may be showing your oft professed lack of sense of disgust by thinking the film is not creepy.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    You my good sir seem to be obsolete.

    Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago. Spielberg was being a visionary artist.

    What’s the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.

    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance? Conservatives are prone to it and progressives are mostly immune. Science!

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy. That isn’t science. Any more. It sure did used to be.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Comment 428 is for you. Sorry!

    , @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance?
     
    I've heard about this, but I'm kind of a skeptic.

    Progressives seem to have a visceral disgust of some things, like guns (at least in private hands), and Euro nationalism. Probably other things as well.

    Likely, not the same as the type of disgust a conservative has (and no doubt the difference is important), but something seems to be there.

    But I agree, they seem to definitely be lacking the reflex in some ways. I can probably think of a thousand ways it shows in film. I suspect that a lot creative types have a deficiency of inhibitory impulses, and this is why I support the idea of moral censorship (at least if it is trad morals). What is missing must be externalized, and I think this is a big part of the society's problems right now. Those that have the capacity for certain things are stigmatized instead of utilized in specialized jobs.


    Also have you read any Freudians?
     
    Only flipped through a few pages of the big guy, years ago, and I found it pretty disgusting. He had too many strange thoughts about the bowels.
  426. Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago.

    This is a dissidoid myth. Never has sex with the underage been more taboo than in modern Western societies.

    What’s the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.

    A robot is not biologically alive? What is the difference between sex with a vibrator and a sheep? Are they the same to you?

    Also, furries are not bestiaphiles.

    And now to undermine my previous point lol but it is funny that it is perfectly ok to murder and eat animals but not to have sex with them, while it is ok to have sex with humans but not murder and cannibalise them. The explanation is hard to formulate, but let’s be honest, basically, no one disagrees with the way round this is, even vegans think sex with animals is worse than eating them.

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy.

    You have no understanding of what Freud wrote about. His point was to explain that typical healthy development sees the boy substitute other women in his mother’s place in his area of jealousy and attachment before he was 6. The use of word “sexual” does not mean what you think it does, but rather is tied to Freud’s definition of libido, which is a catch-all term for all energy.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You have no understanding of what Freud wrote about.
     
    LOL

    You could quit with the dumbed down primary education crap and eat real tiger food.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Legacy-History-Ancient-Bloodline/dp/1585091316/

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  427. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    You my good sir seem to be obsolete.

    Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago. Spielberg was being a visionary artist.

    What's the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.

    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance? Conservatives are prone to it and progressives are mostly immune. Science!

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy. That isn't science. Any more. It sure did used to be.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    Comment 428 is for you. Sorry!

  428. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow


    You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff. The WW1 Britain vs. Ukraine losses analysis is absolutely precious
     
    Do you really think it is unlikely that this war is less lethal than WWI for an army that has been mostly content to defend from ultra-fortified positions and suffered no decisive defeats?

    But purely biologically too many in the West have entered the twilight zone of no survivability: the LGTBTQ…culture, gender confusion, but above all the aging women w no children – if you can think of a way to reverse it, tell us – because eventually the numbers will dictate what happens.
     
    "Gender confusion" is a fad born of people trying to move away from the idea that your sex dictates your personality. Directionally, it represents an improvement in understanding, though with excesses that will fade.

    I don't care which adults people choose to have sex with nor do I care about the manner they choose to have sex. In my experience, the stranger their desires the more spiritually/psychologically repressed they are, and their odd sex is used to try to understand that. And please no one interrupt to argue that the progressives want to legalise child molestation. They most certainly don't. I have no interest in arguing that point, nor likely does Beckow, any more than arguing that Donald Trump is a Nazi.

    Fertility rates are low, especially in Eastern and Southern Europe and East Asia. But this will take many decades to be a profound problem and by then we'll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything. Predicting past that point is pointless. In the meantime, it will just be a cause for sadness and some degree of mediocrity. One cause among many, with many other factors acting in the opposite direction.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …we’ll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything…

    You have this touching faith in “AI” and similar fashionable concepts. It is not an answer, it is like a deus-ex-machina in a badly written movie. You ignore realities and project that some miraculous human-modifying invention will solve it. Not bloody likely…

    In the meantime…some degree of mediocrity…

    Sure, it is not at all bad, mediocre perhaps, a comfortable plateau, etc…and it will take years to get bad enough to matter. But my point that the West has peaked and is in a gradual decline stands. People who are so unsure of themselves that they resort to censorship, who can’t discuss what is going around them openly – from migrants, to homos, to C19, to the war – who can’t fight when it gets too risky (really, sending arms is the definition of ‘not fighting’), and who instead annoyingly preach to the others with silly slogans like ‘values’, ‘openness’, and the perennial “freedom!”

    What the f..ck, if you would practice it more you wouldn’t have to preach so much. AI won’t fix that, it will probably make it worse…:)…have fun making those ‘Aryan babies’…

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    2. The effects of AI, genetic engineering and artificial wombs will make much your talking points moot. What even is HBD when embryos are routinely improved genetically?

    3. What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    4. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the ok.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Coconuts, @Beckow

  429. @AP
    @Beckow


    “surprising number…”

    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff
     
    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.

    only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.
     
    This number intuitively seems rather low, though unlike you, your interlocutor is at least using some reasoning. Too many prominent people (Olympic athletes, artists, etc.) are dying on the battlefield. It could be that these people are particularly patriotic and brave, finding themselves in the worst circumstances. But it suggests high numbers.

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been. So the actual number is probably somewhere in between, our former host guessed around 80k but it was a couple of weeks ago.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

    Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers

    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k? how many of those were Donbas militias? Do I have to round it up or down for you? Take your pills and stop embarrassing yourself with your infantile anger.

    If you press me, I would guess 100k casualties for Ukies, and maybe half of that for the Russian side. We know that currently a few hundred Ukies die or are disabled on the Donbas front every day – see today’s NY Times article that says so (behind a pay wall). Similar numbers are used in German, Czech, British press. It is a meat grinder and Ukies are holding the short stick.

    The bloodbath wouldn’t be happening if Washington didn’t decide to move Nato to Russia’s borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn’t enthusiastically sign up for it. This is the most pre-announced war in a long time – ‘red line’ etc…

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking “all this so we can be in Nato“…missiles right on the long Russian border “so we can better threaten and bomb the damn Moskali“…who thinks like that? Do you really think that 10-20 years from now people will look back and say it was all worth it?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    “Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers”

    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k?
     
    I can’t check back but it in February I was arguing with the pro-Russians about whether the invasion force was 250,000 (my estimate) or 400,000 (the pro-Russian estimate). These numbers includes Russian ground forces plus Donbas militias plus Russian navy (Black Sea Fleet) and air force personnel.

    I was arguing that the Russians would not be able to conquer and occupy Ukraine, which would resist, with such numbers. The pro-Russians were predicting a swift Russian victory. So did you (but I don’t think you gave a number for the Russian invasion force). Who was right?

    The bloodbath wouldn’t be happening if Washington didn’t decide to move Nato to Russia’s borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn’t enthusiastically sign up for it
     
    The only question is if you are dumb to believe this nonsense yourself, or if you are deliberately lying.

    The reason for the invasion is strategic but not specifically to do with NATO, which is an excuse. Russia wants to keep Ukraine in its orbit.

    Prior to Maidan there was hope of doing so, thanks to the large pro-Russian population. Yanukovich has signed into the Eurasian Union which would have linked the economies and bounded Ukraine to Russia.

    After Maidan, there was the still hope of doing so via the Minsk accord, which would have forced Donbas into Ukraine with special autonomy and veto power over national policies. There was also the hope that Ukraine’s economy would go into an endless free fall and that impoverished Ukrainians would change their mind about their turn to the EU and would come crawling back to Russia.

    However, neither of these were happening. Zelensky wasn’t willing to implement Russia’s interpretation of Minsk, and Ukraine’s economy not only recovered but had become better than it had been prior to Maidan. Moreover, the economy was now shifting westward. In addition to these, the Church was now different and the Russian language was in retreat. And Ukraine’s military was getting stronger. Ukraine was inexorably leaving Russia behind and integrating with the West. Without intervention the dream of a united Rus was over, permanent separation was inevitable. The only way to stop this process was to invade before things got even worse for Russia.

    So this was why Russia invaded. NATO was an excuse for dummies (otherwise why no problems for Finland which is just as close?). This was a desperate attempt to make one Rus. One based on a terrible miscalculation about how far Ukraine had already moved from Russia.

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking “all this so we can be in Nato
     
    We already know that you are in essence a complete lackey and this is the only way you can think: “whom to serve?” So this is the only way you can imagine the Ukrainians thinking.

    Ukrainians are fighting because they don’t want Moscow to choose their leaders, to choose whether they join Europe or Eurasia, to determine their country’s internal language policies, to choose the size of their military, or to decide what their constitution will look like (all demands made by Moscow upon Ukraine). In other words, the Ukrainians fight for the independence of their country. This is something that you Beckow, a natural lackey, are incapable of understanding.

    Replies: @Beckow

  430. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William


    I would be shocked if the fiat system lasts another 20 years.
     
    Your use of the jargon fiat shows that you do not understand the process.

    The correct term is debt. The money is borrowed from our children and their children and their children. As long as they are good for it, or presumed good for it there isn't any problem at all. People have been griping your exact gripe for fifty freakin years and it keeps on doing just fine.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    fiat == money not backed by commodities

    People have been griping your exact gripe for fifty freakin years and it keeps on doing just fine.

    It’s true that most people who recognized the unsustainability of the fiat system have consistently, and wrongly, predicted imminent doom for the dollar. The global fiat regime that has existed since 1971 has proven to be much more durable than anyone could have reasonably anticipated. But it is categorically not doing “just fine”; signs are everywhere that the regime is collapsing. Eventually it’s going to collapse, almost certainly in the next 20 years and hopefully in the next 10.

  431. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    No, it is a story with obviously supernatural and unrealistic elements. And a nice one.

    Did you find the bit in Lord of the Rings where the hobbits were encouraged by ancient Tom Bombadil to frolic naked in the fields creepy?

    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?

    Or Benjamin Button dying in his lover Daisy's arms when he has regressed to being an infant?

    Or are you horrified at the implied rape when one body-swapping brother has sex with the other brother's fling unbeknownst to her in the fun comedy The Change-Up?

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?

    It’s not about the age difference of the actors in Big. It’s about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.

    [MORE]

    I’m actually a critic of the hyper-feminist rhetoric which seems to predominate now and to equate any man admiring any woman <18 to pedophilia. Doesn't mean I approve of Epstein Island or enjo-kosai.

    >Or that the character’s mother thinks he’s been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right?

    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.

    Don’t like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus’s antics are primarily about his virility. I wouldn’t like to see them in a movie, but they are forgivable in story form.

    Anyway, as tawdry as they may seem, they resulted in the creation of demi-gods, and I always thought that was an interesting concept. Would guess an important part of the PIE religion. To me, it represents the divine aspects of man, or how in the Christian faith, man is said to be made in God’s image. Or how man seems to sometimes exceed himself, to accomplish the wondrous.

    Haven’t seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don’t recall well.)

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.
     
    There doesn't need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.

    Don’t like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus’s antics are primarily about his virility.
     
    So if it is about "virility", it is therefore.not "degenerate"?

    Haven’t seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don’t recall well.)
     
    You don't need to have seen them to understand the examples. E.g 104 year old vampire and 17 year human girl love affair as central plot point.

    It’s about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.
     
    If you see an attempt to inculcate early promiscuity in Big, that is your problem. No child would understand what happened. In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.

    Furthermore, what cultured child doesn't read Greek mythology, with its many stories of rape, murder and even Zeus turning into a bull to have sex?

    Maybe recognise that you're sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate and living in horror?

    That's not to say that there aren't things which are inappropriate for young children, or stupid older children, as childhood innocence is a thing to defend, but you're way out there. There is no conspiracy and "Big" would certainly not be part of it if there were.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  432. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    It was summarised thusly by Forbes. Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war. Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.

    However I am sorry that the link is (no longer?) as I described. And I thank you for your previous good faith response and I recognise 100% that my failing with this source is mine.

    (Please note that I never pretended nor claimed to speak Russian, even if I do know surprising number IRL.)

    Replies: @Beckow, @AnonfromTN

    It was summarised thusly by Forbes.

    If true, this shows that the credibility of Forbes is exactly zero.

    Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war.

    Shows that there is no intelligence left in “British intelligence”. As everyone worth his salt was pushed out of CIA and NSA when they refused to support “Iraq WMD” lie, it appears that all “five eyes” are blind and not aware of the fact. A huge boon for Russian operatives.

    Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.

    Girkin did not found these militias. In fact, he never even was in LPR. He founded one unit of a bit over 20 people in DPR. In the process of defending Slavyansk from Ukies this unit grew to >1,000 people. After the retreat from Slavyansk he was briefly appointed defense minister of DPR, but was dismissed in August 2014 (FYI, ~9 years ago). He never had any position of responsibility since that time, so his info is about as good as mine. Except that I realize my limitations, whereas his bloated ego makes him pontificate on matters he is clueless about. His statements today are about as reliable as those of Nostradamus.

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov ( Serbian version ) she said Turcinov paid Girkin to get Russia involved 2014 to full scale war . I do not know is it reliable info but she gave statement to the court

    Replies: @AP

  433. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?
     
    It's not about the age difference of the actors in Big. It's about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.

    I'm actually a critic of the hyper-feminist rhetoric which seems to predominate now and to equate any man admiring any woman <18 to pedophilia. Doesn't mean I approve of Epstein Island or enjo-kosai.

    >Or that the character’s mother thinks he’s been abducted by a man, and she thinks that Tom Hanks is that man and he has been away for weeks (you understand what that means, right?
     
    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.
     
    Don't like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus's antics are primarily about his virility. I wouldn't like to see them in a movie, but they are forgivable in story form.

    Anyway, as tawdry as they may seem, they resulted in the creation of demi-gods, and I always thought that was an interesting concept. Would guess an important part of the PIE religion. To me, it represents the divine aspects of man, or how in the Christian faith, man is said to be made in God's image. Or how man seems to sometimes exceed himself, to accomplish the wondrous.

    Haven't seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don't recall well.)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.

    There doesn’t need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.

    Don’t like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus’s antics are primarily about his virility.

    So if it is about “virility”, it is therefore.not “degenerate”?

    Haven’t seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don’t recall well.)

    You don’t need to have seen them to understand the examples. E.g 104 year old vampire and 17 year human girl love affair as central plot point.

    It’s about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.

    If you see an attempt to inculcate early promiscuity in Big, that is your problem. No child would understand what happened. In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.

    Furthermore, what cultured child doesn’t read Greek mythology, with its many stories of rape, murder and even Zeus turning into a bull to have sex?

    Maybe recognise that you’re sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate and living in horror?

    That’s not to say that there aren’t things which are inappropriate for young children, or stupid older children, as childhood innocence is a thing to defend, but you’re way out there. There is no conspiracy and “Big” would certainly not be part of it if there were.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    So if it is about “virility”, it is therefore.not “degenerate”?

     

    Zeus's acts resulted in the creation of heroes. That's not modern nihilism or materialism.

    There doesn’t need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.
     
    No, it is not a plot hole. They wrote that part in, and made a deliberate joke of it. It didn't need to be in there. All that they needed was an explanation about where he went, and there were any number of possibilities that wouldn't have included the horrible and dark vision of the one that they did pick.

    Maybe recognise that you’re sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate
     
    But almost everything is degenerate, including Big. Or are you going to pretend that they made movies with similar plot points about kids before, say in the 1950s?

    No child would understand what happened.
     
    Kids understand sex. Modern pop culture is drenched in it. Beyond, which they've had sex ed, by the time the are the age of the boy character.


    In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.
     
    It's not a porn, but it's still pretty obvious that that was the plot.


    There is no conspiracy and “Big” would certainly not be part of it if there were.
     
    Oh, there is a conspiracy alright to influence kids, with self-professed acknowledgements of it by the producers.

    https://news.yahoo.com/disney-executive-producer-admits-gay-224509498.html

    I do not say that Big is necessarily an example, but it doesn't need to be in order to be degenerate. All it needs to be is the product of degenerate people, which it almost certainly was, just by being a mainstream Hollywood production, without any censorship by moral people.

    And such things do influence people.

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There is no conspiracy
     
    You keep saying that "there is no conspiracy", with this or that, but the definition of a conspiracy involves only two or more people meeting - it's a pretty low threshold.

    NGOs usually involve more than one employee, and often pursue goals like open borders, and they are often given state funds, which means that there is some coordination going on with the government.
  434. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...we’ll have artificial wombs, genetic engineering and AI that does just about everything...
     
    You have this touching faith in "AI" and similar fashionable concepts. It is not an answer, it is like a deus-ex-machina in a badly written movie. You ignore realities and project that some miraculous human-modifying invention will solve it. Not bloody likely...

    In the meantime...some degree of mediocrity...
     
    Sure, it is not at all bad, mediocre perhaps, a comfortable plateau, etc...and it will take years to get bad enough to matter. But my point that the West has peaked and is in a gradual decline stands. People who are so unsure of themselves that they resort to censorship, who can't discuss what is going around them openly - from migrants, to homos, to C19, to the war - who can't fight when it gets too risky (really, sending arms is the definition of 'not fighting'), and who instead annoyingly preach to the others with silly slogans like 'values', 'openness', and the perennial "freedom!"

    What the f..ck, if you would practice it more you wouldn't have to preach so much. AI won't fix that, it will probably make it worse...:)...have fun making those 'Aryan babies'...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    2. The effects of AI, genetic engineering and artificial wombs will make much your talking points moot. What even is HBD when embryos are routinely improved genetically?

    3. What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    4. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the ok.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.
     
    The unanimity of the MSM in the West today was previously achieved only twice in history: in Hitler’s Germany in late 1930s and in Stalin’s USSR in the same period. If you think this was achieved w/o heavy-handed censorship, I have a bridge to sell you. I don’t know about China, but the variety of opinions freely expressed in Russian MSM is orders of magnitude greater.

    Personal observation: I used two test websites with info contradicting Western narrative on Ukraine. Both are censored out by my University, but available in the US via at least two other internet service providers. I found that in France both are censored out, whereas both are available in Kenya and the Netherlands.
    , @Coconuts
    @Leaves No Shadow


    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.
     
    I feel like Beckow has a point about the UK at least. On sexual stuff there was more censorship, though not 100% sure as you can still be censored for saying challenging things on this topic. On an issue like demographics, immigration and race though?

    The reason does seem to be lower levels of confidence in public backing for some policies.
    , @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...Censorship is at an historical low
     
    Right...where do you live for god's sake? Nobody cares about moral censorship that is indeed almost nonexistent today. The relevant censorship - migration, race, homo-gender issues, Corona, Trump and populism, war... - is at a very high level. It has definitely increased from the 1990-2000's (who cares about before?) You minimizing it is troubling: perfection is not the goal, but at least acknowledge reality.

    Where is it better? Some smaller Euro nations have managed to stay relatively sane, even UK is better than US allowing a broader expression of views. France and Italy are also less controlled. I occasionally follow Russian media and the discussions are broader and less scripted. After the war started they are more patriotic, but there is still room for other views and that is missing in the Western media. You don't understand Russian and live with a stereotype that has been beaten into your mind for decades - you are thus unable to evaluate things on their merits (that was the point of propagandizing you).

    My point about the West peaking only listed censorship as one noticeable aspect. I mentioned other troubling things: economy that has nowhere to go - too financialised with fiat money, not enough real work or resources. The unbearable preachiness that has taken over the West - you also fall into it. The migration-demographic issue (AI won't fix it:) The inability to fight wars other than use others (like the Ukies) or bomb from distance (very inhuman). The cultural collapse - Hollywood is brain-dead, black Ann Boleyn is idiotic...

    I share some of your optimism because it takes a long time to destroy institutions - it is a slow bumpy decline and not a collapse. There are also no ready alternatives either in the West or elsewhere. So the transition could be long and quite pleasant. But the peak is behind...it is all downhill now, maybe with nice views, but you know where you are going...

  435. Even as we comment here, a huge fire is raging at the plant of an American company Edge Autonomy in Marupe (Latvia), which used to produce drones for Ukies. Was it started by gods or space aliens?

    Are gods or space aliens on Russia’s side?

  436. @Leaves No Shadow

    Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago.
     
    This is a dissidoid myth. Never has sex with the underage been more taboo than in modern Western societies.

    What’s the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.
     
    A robot is not biologically alive? What is the difference between sex with a vibrator and a sheep? Are they the same to you?

    Also, furries are not bestiaphiles.

    And now to undermine my previous point lol but it is funny that it is perfectly ok to murder and eat animals but not to have sex with them, while it is ok to have sex with humans but not murder and cannibalise them. The explanation is hard to formulate, but let's be honest, basically, no one disagrees with the way round this is, even vegans think sex with animals is worse than eating them.

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy.
     
    You have no understanding of what Freud wrote about. His point was to explain that typical healthy development sees the boy substitute other women in his mother's place in his area of jealousy and attachment before he was 6. The use of word "sexual" does not mean what you think it does, but rather is tied to Freud's definition of libido, which is a catch-all term for all energy.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    You have no understanding of what Freud wrote about.

    LOL

    You could quit with the dumbed down primary education crap and eat real tiger food.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    After reading a summary of that book, I find it interesting that you would reccomend it to me. After all, a trance-like ultra-perceptive state is my most comfortable state. I also engage with my own imaginings of my own dragon in that state. I even did this with a psychologist because there's no danger to my sanity from it.

    Nonetheless, my extremely active imagination aside, I disagree with this being a bloodline thing. I also disagree with a past Golden Age. And I very much disagree with the idea that I should marry my biological sibling or drink blood. That seems like a lot of nonsense sullying de Vere's genuine attempt to engage with certain spiritual/psychological phenomena.

    Perhaps I misunderstand the book from the summary? Or perhaps I should rethink some of those disagreements?

    Nonetheless, I have my own description for why I am like I am, and it doesn't fit into what I saw summarised in that book.

    Also, my fantasy (notice what word I am happy to use) is coherent in itself (if you're happy thinking paradoxically) and coherent with the facts of my life and experiences, so that's nice for me.

    Anyway, I don't go into detail on this often as it never produces anything positive, but I hope you appreciate me sharing in the spirit in which I am sharing!

  437. @Beckow
    @AP


    Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers
     
    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k? how many of those were Donbas militias? Do I have to round it up or down for you? Take your pills and stop embarrassing yourself with your infantile anger.

    If you press me, I would guess 100k casualties for Ukies, and maybe half of that for the Russian side. We know that currently a few hundred Ukies die or are disabled on the Donbas front every day - see today's NY Times article that says so (behind a pay wall). Similar numbers are used in German, Czech, British press. It is a meat grinder and Ukies are holding the short stick.

    The bloodbath wouldn't be happening if Washington didn't decide to move Nato to Russia's borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn't enthusiastically sign up for it. This is the most pre-announced war in a long time - 'red line' etc...

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking "all this so we can be in Nato"...missiles right on the long Russian border "so we can better threaten and bomb the damn Moskali"...who thinks like that? Do you really think that 10-20 years from now people will look back and say it was all worth it?

    Replies: @AP

    “Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers”

    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k?

    I can’t check back but it in February I was arguing with the pro-Russians about whether the invasion force was 250,000 (my estimate) or 400,000 (the pro-Russian estimate). These numbers includes Russian ground forces plus Donbas militias plus Russian navy (Black Sea Fleet) and air force personnel.

    I was arguing that the Russians would not be able to conquer and occupy Ukraine, which would resist, with such numbers. The pro-Russians were predicting a swift Russian victory. So did you (but I don’t think you gave a number for the Russian invasion force). Who was right?

    The bloodbath wouldn’t be happening if Washington didn’t decide to move Nato to Russia’s borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn’t enthusiastically sign up for it

    The only question is if you are dumb to believe this nonsense yourself, or if you are deliberately lying.

    The reason for the invasion is strategic but not specifically to do with NATO, which is an excuse. Russia wants to keep Ukraine in its orbit.

    Prior to Maidan there was hope of doing so, thanks to the large pro-Russian population. Yanukovich has signed into the Eurasian Union which would have linked the economies and bounded Ukraine to Russia.

    After Maidan, there was the still hope of doing so via the Minsk accord, which would have forced Donbas into Ukraine with special autonomy and veto power over national policies. There was also the hope that Ukraine’s economy would go into an endless free fall and that impoverished Ukrainians would change their mind about their turn to the EU and would come crawling back to Russia.

    However, neither of these were happening. Zelensky wasn’t willing to implement Russia’s interpretation of Minsk, and Ukraine’s economy not only recovered but had become better than it had been prior to Maidan. Moreover, the economy was now shifting westward. In addition to these, the Church was now different and the Russian language was in retreat. And Ukraine’s military was getting stronger. Ukraine was inexorably leaving Russia behind and integrating with the West. Without intervention the dream of a united Rus was over, permanent separation was inevitable. The only way to stop this process was to invade before things got even worse for Russia.

    So this was why Russia invaded. NATO was an excuse for dummies (otherwise why no problems for Finland which is just as close?). This was a desperate attempt to make one Rus. One based on a terrible miscalculation about how far Ukraine had already moved from Russia.

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking “all this so we can be in Nato

    We already know that you are in essence a complete lackey and this is the only way you can think: “whom to serve?” So this is the only way you can imagine the Ukrainians thinking.

    Ukrainians are fighting because they don’t want Moscow to choose their leaders, to choose whether they join Europe or Eurasia, to determine their country’s internal language policies, to choose the size of their military, or to decide what their constitution will look like (all demands made by Moscow upon Ukraine). In other words, the Ukrainians fight for the independence of their country. This is something that you Beckow, a natural lackey, are incapable of understanding.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The reason for the invasion is strategic but not specifically to do with NATO
     
    How can a grown-up write an idiotic sentence like that and expect to be taken seriously? Are you really that dense or desperate that you will deny the nose between your eyes?

    What could possibly be 'strategic' without involvement of Nato? You know it and so you consciously lie: Washington has a plan to move Nato into Ukraine on the Russian borders, eventually missiles and bases would follow. Nato announced it every year since 2008, Kiev government has the 'Nato membership' in the Ukie Constitution (2019)...can you imagine that a grown-up would deny that?

    The rest of your post is a feeble attempt to deny the obvious: Nato moving to Ukraine was a red line for Russia and led to the war. The Ukie soldiers are dying for the desire to be in Nato. Morons who lack critical thinking will lie and deny that the strategy is: get Ukieland into Nato. But you look really stupid, let it go, so we can discuss realities: who wins, who loses. When you go nutty ideological (Freedom!!!) nobody takes you seriously.
  438. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    2. The effects of AI, genetic engineering and artificial wombs will make much your talking points moot. What even is HBD when embryos are routinely improved genetically?

    3. What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    4. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the ok.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Coconuts, @Beckow

    What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    The unanimity of the MSM in the West today was previously achieved only twice in history: in Hitler’s Germany in late 1930s and in Stalin’s USSR in the same period. If you think this was achieved w/o heavy-handed censorship, I have a bridge to sell you. I don’t know about China, but the variety of opinions freely expressed in Russian MSM is orders of magnitude greater.

    Personal observation: I used two test websites with info contradicting Western narrative on Ukraine. Both are censored out by my University, but available in the US via at least two other internet service providers. I found that in France both are censored out, whereas both are available in Kenya and the Netherlands.

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
  439. @Beckow
    @Gerard1234

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves - by any count - about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years - plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    This will not end because Kiev runs out of manpower. One of two things will happen in 23:
    - Ukie morale breaks and large enough numbers refuse to fight
    - Russia escalates to massive destruction of Ukie infrastructure, logistics, even big cities.

    Russia obviously prefers the first one. The whole point of Nato effort is to prevent morale collapse with the 'Ukies are winning' propaganda, weapons, visits, etc... they also still faintly hope for Russia's internal collapse (very unlikely).

    There is at this point no imaginable way this could end with talks. What would they talk about? Who would enforce any settlement? How long before it would restart? After 2014-22, Russia will not settle for a 'deal', they would have to be defeated.

    The situation is not that complex: Ukies are resisting, kicking and biting furiously as Nato cheers on from the sidelines. Russia wants to minimize the bites and still retains residual unwillingness to simply smash the Ukies. Each bite makes it less likely that Russia could walk away. The Nato cheerleaders have written off Kiev, they just enjoy the show and hope that Russia gets bloodied. Or that the war can be called off at some point with something remaining of Ukieland as 'anti-Russia' for the next round.

    Everyone other than Russia has thrown all they have to the war. It looks like Russia will try one more 'morale collapse' in the next few months. If Ukies refuse to give in, we will get the Nato-style 'shock-and-awe' to finish the job. Westerners, who mostly live with their heads in the sand will be 'shocked' that wars are fought that way and will refuse to acknowledge that they did it many times themselves...but that won't matter much.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves – by any count – about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years – plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.

    Hi there. I go on the assumption that its highly probable Ukronazis have lost 500k-700k dead or injured already. The 7% was stated as the maximum level they could achieve, but in reality I doubt they have the infrastructure and industrial capacity, economy or population demographics to even reach 4-5% getting mobilised…… much like India if it ever got into a state of total war with China , would struggle to mobilise even 2% into their army for several years.
    I will repeat that these levels of casualties are immense for a war that is semi-localised, and by comparison to other wars – of medium intensity . So your word of “rate” will become even more exponential then it is now to 404 in a true state of total war with mass strategic bombing campaign and Russia placing anywhere near the number of forces we assumed they would at the start of the SMO, instead of the minimal number they have since the start – the linear comparison won’t work.
    Closer to 0% than to 10% of ukropmothers already in Europe will allow there 17, 18 year old etc son to go back Im sure

    Well this is interesting but I do believe the decision from the EU to allow free-movement of Ukrainians at the very start of the war, which effectively meant every woman and child could go

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Gerard1234

    I don't disagree with your numbers, including the fact that many of the younger 16-17-18 year olds are probably safely in Europe (or Russia in some cases:). It is rather idiotic to fight a bloody war with open borders.

    But you don't need that many soldiers: half a million to 700k would be enough for Kiev this year and next. And they can assemble that many. Even if we assume that 70-80% of 16-18 year olds will not be available that still leaves a few hundred thousand.

    Attrition works on small nations, not so well on bigger ones. One unknown is the impact of losses on the Ukie morale - surprisingly at the beginning a lot of people are too stupid to realize that war means death, lot of it. Beginnings as in many other enterprises are the easy part.

    What tends to happen as the bloody reality becomes obvious is polarization: most people don't want to have anything to do with, but for a minority it becomes a way of life, they embrace it, enjoy it... We can play with the numbers and ratios for Ukies, how large will be the committed minority? I can imagine that even 100-200k committed Ukies (really, modern day fanatics) would fight to the absolute end.

    This will still get quite interesting. Dying for desire to be in Nato - they should put it on their uniforms.

  440. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You have no understanding of what Freud wrote about.
     
    LOL

    You could quit with the dumbed down primary education crap and eat real tiger food.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Legacy-History-Ancient-Bloodline/dp/1585091316/

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    After reading a summary of that book, I find it interesting that you would reccomend it to me. After all, a trance-like ultra-perceptive state is my most comfortable state. I also engage with my own imaginings of my own dragon in that state. I even did this with a psychologist because there’s no danger to my sanity from it.

    Nonetheless, my extremely active imagination aside, I disagree with this being a bloodline thing. I also disagree with a past Golden Age. And I very much disagree with the idea that I should marry my biological sibling or drink blood. That seems like a lot of nonsense sullying de Vere’s genuine attempt to engage with certain spiritual/psychological phenomena.

    Perhaps I misunderstand the book from the summary? Or perhaps I should rethink some of those disagreements?

    Nonetheless, I have my own description for why I am like I am, and it doesn’t fit into what I saw summarised in that book.

    Also, my fantasy (notice what word I am happy to use) is coherent in itself (if you’re happy thinking paradoxically) and coherent with the facts of my life and experiences, so that’s nice for me.

    Anyway, I don’t go into detail on this often as it never produces anything positive, but I hope you appreciate me sharing in the spirit in which I am sharing!

  441. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.
     
    There doesn't need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.

    Don’t like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus’s antics are primarily about his virility.
     
    So if it is about "virility", it is therefore.not "degenerate"?

    Haven’t seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don’t recall well.)
     
    You don't need to have seen them to understand the examples. E.g 104 year old vampire and 17 year human girl love affair as central plot point.

    It’s about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.
     
    If you see an attempt to inculcate early promiscuity in Big, that is your problem. No child would understand what happened. In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.

    Furthermore, what cultured child doesn't read Greek mythology, with its many stories of rape, murder and even Zeus turning into a bull to have sex?

    Maybe recognise that you're sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate and living in horror?

    That's not to say that there aren't things which are inappropriate for young children, or stupid older children, as childhood innocence is a thing to defend, but you're way out there. There is no conspiracy and "Big" would certainly not be part of it if there were.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    So if it is about “virility”, it is therefore.not “degenerate”?

    Zeus’s acts resulted in the creation of heroes. That’s not modern nihilism or materialism.

    [MORE]

    There doesn’t need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.

    No, it is not a plot hole. They wrote that part in, and made a deliberate joke of it. It didn’t need to be in there. All that they needed was an explanation about where he went, and there were any number of possibilities that wouldn’t have included the horrible and dark vision of the one that they did pick.

    Maybe recognise that you’re sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate

    But almost everything is degenerate, including Big. Or are you going to pretend that they made movies with similar plot points about kids before, say in the 1950s?

    No child would understand what happened.

    Kids understand sex. Modern pop culture is drenched in it. Beyond, which they’ve had sex ed, by the time the are the age of the boy character.

    In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.

    It’s not a porn, but it’s still pretty obvious that that was the plot.

    There is no conspiracy and “Big” would certainly not be part of it if there were.

    Oh, there is a conspiracy alright to influence kids, with self-professed acknowledgements of it by the producers.

    https://news.yahoo.com/disney-executive-producer-admits-gay-224509498.html

    I do not say that Big is necessarily an example, but it doesn’t need to be in order to be degenerate. All it needs to be is the product of degenerate people, which it almost certainly was, just by being a mainstream Hollywood production, without any censorship by moral people.

    And such things do influence people.

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @songbird

    I have not seen Big.

    Tom Hanks can be an engaging actor, but in my opinion something about him is fundamentally creepy in a subtle way.

    Replies: @songbird

  442. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    You my good sir seem to be obsolete.

    Minor attracted persons became mainstream propaganda a couple years ago. Spielberg was being a visionary artist.

    What's the difference between sex with robots and sex with sentient animals like sheep and goats? The first furry presidential candidate might be here next year.

    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance? Conservatives are prone to it and progressives are mostly immune. Science!

    Also have you read any Freudians? They presumed all men felt sex attraction to their mommy. That isn't science. Any more. It sure did used to be.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    This is kind of tangential but did you know that disgust is a partisan political stance?

    I’ve heard about this, but I’m kind of a skeptic.

    Progressives seem to have a visceral disgust of some things, like guns (at least in private hands), and Euro nationalism. Probably other things as well.

    [MORE]

    Likely, not the same as the type of disgust a conservative has (and no doubt the difference is important), but something seems to be there.

    But I agree, they seem to definitely be lacking the reflex in some ways. I can probably think of a thousand ways it shows in film. I suspect that a lot creative types have a deficiency of inhibitory impulses, and this is why I support the idea of moral censorship (at least if it is trad morals). What is missing must be externalized, and I think this is a big part of the society’s problems right now. Those that have the capacity for certain things are stigmatized instead of utilized in specialized jobs.

    Also have you read any Freudians?

    Only flipped through a few pages of the big guy, years ago, and I found it pretty disgusting. He had too many strange thoughts about the bowels.

  443. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    2. The effects of AI, genetic engineering and artificial wombs will make much your talking points moot. What even is HBD when embryos are routinely improved genetically?

    3. What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    4. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the ok.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Coconuts, @Beckow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    I feel like Beckow has a point about the UK at least. On sexual stuff there was more censorship, though not 100% sure as you can still be censored for saying challenging things on this topic. On an issue like demographics, immigration and race though?

    The reason does seem to be lower levels of confidence in public backing for some policies.

  444. The FULL RACE replay of the 12 Hours of Bathurst is now available.

    I still have not finished the 24 Hours of Daytona. The injured Acura was repaired and caught full course cautions at exactly the right intervals. It has managed to come back from 3 laps down to the tail end of the lead lap.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @A123
    @A123


    I still have not finished the 24 Hours of Daytona. The injured Acura was repaired and caught full course cautions at exactly the right intervals. It has managed to come back from 3 laps down to the tail end of the lead lap.
     
    Acura 1 & 2 -- Cadillac 3 -- Dang foreigners (shakes fist) They Took My Watch!
    ____

    All is not lost. While GM has failed, The Blue Oval is well represented in the sports car challenge supported by Michelin Pilot rubber... (shakes fist) They Took My Tires!

    Here is the full replay for the... Ahem... French... Look at that S Car Go!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ShiwAY271ZI

    PEACE 😇
  445. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.
     
    The Alizée video from earlier reminded me of this. I find it evocative of the period in the early 2000s when I was younger and our political discussions might have been more about the artificiality and low standards of mass entertainment products than race and socialism. Personally I was maybe wondering whether the hedonistic attitudes were too strong and would cause some future social problems (I had been reading Houellebecq), but the mood felt clearly different to now, more relaxed and optimistic.

    I recall having some premonition of existential doom for a couple of years in my early 20s, at the time I thought it was to do with an important relationship ending, student lifestyle, things I had been reading or had to study. Looking back now possibly it was because there were already hints of where things might be going longer term. I had to read some early queer theory stuff for a course and got the feeling that stuff was going to take over culture at some point.

    I tend to understand what we are seeing now as a combination of technological change, where more power is concentrated in fewer hands, the related transhumanist tendencies, major demographic shifts (as you were pointing out with the growth in the Muslim populations) and the coming to maturity in the West of the cultural trends that first started emerging in the 60s. This would be feminism, the sexual revolution, the counter-culture and decolonisation and so on.

    I think some people were maybe thinking about the implications of technological change (Nick Land and Warwick University's cybernetics research unit have been mentioned). In the UK I don't remember anyone mainstream thinking of the implications of serious demographic change, I suspect discussing the ethnic aspects would have been a relatively taboo subject.

    For a long time things were still being run by actual 1950s boomers and people born before the end of WW2, I see them as having been influenced by an earlier culture in ways that limited the impact of the 1960s cultural trends. Whereas what we are seeing now are generations much more immersed and shaped by them coming to the forefront.

    This studio version of Moi Lolita has 134 million views:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfXBNQMj2SE

    Replies: @Dmitry

    It’s interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.

    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.

    I hope to think it’s because French are such cultural people, they are reading books. But I think something bad also happens with the French films after maybe 1970* – replacement by commercial advertising.


    *Although there is also global problem as Yevardian was saying last month he prefers the 1970s American films than the 1980s https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5746660

    impact of the 1960s cultural trends

    1960s “counter-culture” trend was relatively still soulful, “handmade”, nonindustrialized. It reminds of earlier times, in some way rebellion against the industrialization of pop culture in the 1950s. This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it’s rapidly converted to an industrial product (in mid-1960s, the famous singers were giving free concerts in San Francisco, by 1970s some of the wealthiest people in the world).

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It’s interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.
     
    I have heard that the Italian versions are worse but I don't know first hand. There were similar products in the UK at the time, perhaps not as sexualised as some of the French, I am trying to remember... there was a division between the mainstream 'manufactured' pop music and the 'indie' bands who were all on smaller record labels.


    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.
     
    I used to find some of the chanson française stuff interesting, the literary influence in some of it seemed stronger than you would find with mainstream British or US pop music. Like these Serge Gainsbourg songs with lyrics from poems of Nerval and Felix Arvers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_7l5by688

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5mAzzIK7As

    This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it’s rapidly converted to an industrial product...
     
    I feel like this spirit had some lingering afterlife through the next few decades, till more and more marginal things were bought up and made corporate or disappeared. By the 2000s it seemed to have fully faded away.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  446. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Current Western society is not the society I have discovered when moving West 30 years ago. I know that everything changes and nothing is permanent, but the pace and the direction of changes are both breathtaking and sinister. The level and intensity of changes in the West is currently reaching Perestroika proportions.

    @ Dmitry, if you read my comment carefully, you will see three things 1) I was writing about the time of adulthood of my own kids. That is the next two generations. 2) I was worried about what might (or quite likely would) happen 3) It is not about Revolution that I wrote but about societal collapse of major proportions. The type of situation that William Gibson has sarcastically termed The Jackpot in his latest series of books.

    My reply to Coconuts (whose comments I always appreciate and read very carefully) was initially motivated by the question our friend Bromance of three kingdoms (whose comments I also usually take very seriously) has asked LatW (another of my favorite commenters). I guess that is the necessary background for understanding what I wrote about, the comments about NRx and Ned Land included.

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading. I hope anyone among our crazy bunch here might have an interesting and valuable opinion. Speaking of which, where's Sylvio ? Didn't see him commenting lately.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @S

    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading.

    Probably like yourself, I’ve found it useful to understand the cosmologies of the various peoples involved to get a better grasp of things.

    One important element of the cosmology of the Anglo-Saxons of the Anglosphere is the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism, ie the absurd belief that the people of the British Isles were of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. In the US I’ve never known of anyone personally to have believed in it, yet clearly there has been an historic influence.

    [MORE]

    Below is a brief excerpt and link to an outstanding study of the belief system:

    ‘…many British-Israelites viewed the Second World War as just a precursor to a war with the Soviet Union which would usher in the Second Coming of Christ and the Millennium.

    http://www.revneal.org/Writings/Writings/british.htm

    Another element of US cosmology is ancient Rome.

    The United States since it’s inception has consciously modeled itself upon Rome, ie land carefully chosen to construct Washington DC upon had generations before originally been called ‘Rome’, complete with it’s own Tiber running through it. Many US public buildings are Roman in their design.

    Uncannily, US history itself has point by point closely paralleled that of the original Rome.

    At present, just as Rome transitioned from a Republic to a dictatorship, so too is the United States, and just as Rome had its First Triumvirate consisting of Rome’s richest man, the Roman billionaire and real estate speculator Marcus Crassus, the Roman military veteran Pompey, and Crassus’s political protege, the up and coming Julius Caesar, the ‘New Rome’ (the US) has Donald Trump, Pompeo, and Trump’s political protege, Jared Kushner.

    In the link below, I explore in depth the close parallels of Rome’s First Triumvirate with today’s Trump, Pompeo, and Kushner. Pompeo is to announce in the next in the next few months if he is to contest with Trump for the 2024 presidential nomination. Rome’s First Triumvirate ultimately devolved into civil war between its members. [Be sure and check under ‘More’]

    Modern First Triumvirate Parallels With the US

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-195/#comment-5525507

    The potential destruction in WWIII of the New Rome [US] and the Third Rome [Russia], the respective modern day heirs of Rome’s Western and Eastern portions, as perceived revenge by elements of the Jewish people for ancient Rome’s destruction of the Jewish Temple nearly 2000 years ago.

    WWIII as Revenge upon Rome Hypothesis

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-186-russia-ukraine/#comment-5312664

    The close parallels between Varus’s defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the Roman standards and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions, and Custer’s defeat at the Little Big Horn by ‘barbarian tribes’, the loss of the US Calvary ‘standards’ (guidons), and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/#comment-5172335

    • Replies: @S
    @S

    While the link was working previously the link is broken now for some reason.

    These two links below should work, and if not, it was comment # 207 of the Pepe Escobar thread they connect to, and regards the close parallels between the ancient Roman general Varus's defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the standards, and their later recovery, and the New Rome's [US] Custer's defeat by the 'barbarian tribes' at the Little Big Horn, the loss of the US Cavalry 'standards' (ie guidons), and their later recovery.




    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172611

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172335

    Replies: @S

  447. @sudden death
    @AP

    Potential military healthcare in many cases during war is not any less important than soldiering.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Operational losses to trenchfoot were as high as 20% in WW1 before the British Army swapped foot wraps for multiple pairs of socks in 1916.

  448. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    So if it is about “virility”, it is therefore.not “degenerate”?

     

    Zeus's acts resulted in the creation of heroes. That's not modern nihilism or materialism.

    There doesn’t need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.
     
    No, it is not a plot hole. They wrote that part in, and made a deliberate joke of it. It didn't need to be in there. All that they needed was an explanation about where he went, and there were any number of possibilities that wouldn't have included the horrible and dark vision of the one that they did pick.

    Maybe recognise that you’re sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate
     
    But almost everything is degenerate, including Big. Or are you going to pretend that they made movies with similar plot points about kids before, say in the 1950s?

    No child would understand what happened.
     
    Kids understand sex. Modern pop culture is drenched in it. Beyond, which they've had sex ed, by the time the are the age of the boy character.


    In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.
     
    It's not a porn, but it's still pretty obvious that that was the plot.


    There is no conspiracy and “Big” would certainly not be part of it if there were.
     
    Oh, there is a conspiracy alright to influence kids, with self-professed acknowledgements of it by the producers.

    https://news.yahoo.com/disney-executive-producer-admits-gay-224509498.html

    I do not say that Big is necessarily an example, but it doesn't need to be in order to be degenerate. All it needs to be is the product of degenerate people, which it almost certainly was, just by being a mainstream Hollywood production, without any censorship by moral people.

    And such things do influence people.

    Replies: @QCIC

    I have not seen Big.

    Tom Hanks can be an engaging actor, but in my opinion something about him is fundamentally creepy in a subtle way.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @QCIC

    The one actor that I am really creeped out by is Ted Danson. Cannot explain why, other than to say that on Cheers I thought he had the look of a homosexual axe-murderer.

    Other than him, maybe, some of the actresses that they promoted to try to lower beauty standards like Kristen Stewart.

  449. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    The movie Big was written by Spielberg’s sister, and boy is it creepy in a lot of ways.
     
    Who finds "Big" creepy? This is sub-SJW outrage seeking.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    Big is in retrospect, awkward.

  450. @QCIC
    @songbird

    I have not seen Big.

    Tom Hanks can be an engaging actor, but in my opinion something about him is fundamentally creepy in a subtle way.

    Replies: @songbird

    The one actor that I am really creeped out by is Ted Danson. Cannot explain why, other than to say that on Cheers I thought he had the look of a homosexual axe-murderer.

    Other than him, maybe, some of the actresses that they promoted to try to lower beauty standards like Kristen Stewart.

  451. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    No, it is a story with obviously supernatural and unrealistic elements. And a nice one.

    Did you find the bit in Lord of the Rings where the hobbits were encouraged by ancient Tom Bombadil to frolic naked in the fields creepy?

    Or how about the love affair between literally 104 years old Edward and 17-year-old Bella in Twilight?

    Or Benjamin Button dying in his lover Daisy's arms when he has regressed to being an infant?

    Or are you horrified at the implied rape when one body-swapping brother has sex with the other brother's fling unbeknownst to her in the fun comedy The Change-Up?

    I mean Greek mythology must just utterly gross you out, what with everything Zeus gets up to.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke


    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.
     
    Orcs had been captured elves who were twisted and corrupted by cruel masters. Likewise, Russians can be said to have been Rus, who were corrupted by their cruel Mongol and Tatar masters.

    Ukrainians were the Rus who had escaped that corruption.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @A123
    @Wokechoke


    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race
     
    Whaaaaat..... ????? Nope. All of the sides align to core Europe and WW I.

    • AngloSaxon Orcs were corrupted AngloSaxon Elves.
    • Hobbits are quintessentially British. Downstairs Sam's deference to Upstairs Mr. Frodo.

    Neither is it a call out to Greta like environmentalist gibberish. Every side mined iron ore to make steel weapons. They all gathered the fuel to run those forges. Saurman was excessively rapacious, not fundamentally different in his exploitation of resources.

    Some Easterlings showed up with Oliphants. However, they were expressions of very rare mystique in the book trilogy. The narrative did not need them. They merely added texture to the environment.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  452. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Western societies.. social/cultural revolutions;
     
    Where the "social/cultural", means not real revolution, but changing of external packaging.

    I would say the Western society is the derivation of the late 18th century revolution, where later revolution has been defeated.

    But this included successful political engineering, as the later revolutionary opportunity is slowly reduced by increasing the quantity of power and comfort and selectively feeding to people below. Eventually you are recruiting the stronger parts of the revolutionary classes to the bourgeoisie. An example, like Sweden or Norway, where everyone is nowadays middle class, it's like communism, but bourgeoisie not the proletariat are the winners.

    So, Tupac, before he was killed 1996, says "they are not ready for a black president" (in the revolutionary song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfF8jMN-2CM. which has the phrases like "instead of war on poverty, they got a war on drugs"). But in 2009, there is already a black president.

    However, it is not a "black president" as Tupac would write, but the middle class lawyer, who represents only the life of middle class comfort in the gated community, and would not threat the rulers with a "war on poverty" (Obama is not even Bernie Sanders) that the "black president" (i.e. someone from the revolutionary class) was supposed to include.


    beneficiaries are still in a position to resist any counter tendencies
     
    Even slight meritocracy as today, implies beneficiaries are correlated to people with the higher "human capital" in the middle class career perspective. But because the wealth and comfort is so large in the Western economies, there is a situation where most of the adequate population have high material comfort. It's often a situation where there are more good jobs than people to recruit. That's people are complaining in some industries, that unemployment is "too low".

    Current system is selecting for the revolutionary population of inadequate people (from career perspective), people with high disagreeability (which prevents teamwork, that is necessary for revolution) etc, while stealing the stronger people for its own class. This post-Washington or post-Bastille society, seems like a very clever recycling machine, that converts its enemies to waste products.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I would say the Western society is the derivation of the late 18th century revolution, where later revolution has been defeated.

    I tend to agree about the 1789 Revolution remaining the key one for most Western countries.

    But this included successful political engineering, as the later revolutionary opportunity is slowly reduced by increasing the quantity of power and comfort and selectively feeding to people below. Eventually you are recruiting the stronger parts of the revolutionary classes to the bourgeoisie. An example, like Sweden or Norway, where everyone is nowadays middle class, it’s like communism, but bourgeoisie not the proletariat are the winners.

    I also got the impression this is what happened, there were scares at different times (like the years after the end of WW1 or Spain in 1936) but this strategy was successful. You can see it quite clearly in Britain with the gradual expansion of the electoral franchise and the incorporation of the Labour Party into the political system. The end of the process must have been the 1980s-90s, with privatisation, the expansion of home ownership and the closure of a lot of heavy industry.

    Current system is selecting for the revolutionary population of inadequate people (from career perspective), people with high disagreeability (which prevents teamwork, that is necessary for revolution) etc, while stealing the stronger people for its own class.

    Around Christmas I was reading some Georges Sorel and I was thinking that the fact that the revolutionary class he was relying on, the industrial proletariat, has mostly disappeared from the system now is quite important. Looking back to the 19th century, maybe to the lives of my grandparents even, what he was saying about the potential of this class to regenerate society was idealistic but more plausible. The shift in Western economies away from industry seems to have prevented any replacement emerging.

    At the moment I wonder if this strategy may end up proving too successful, where the bourgeois spirit gets too strong and starts to alienate younger people, as Bashi was writing about. The way bureaucracy focused identity politics seems to have taken over on the left is not encouraging here.

  453. @A123
    The FULL RACE replay of the 12 Hours of Bathurst is now available.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HCTMKt94JZQ

    I still have not finished the 24 Hours of Daytona. The injured Acura was repaired and caught full course cautions at exactly the right intervals. It has managed to come back from 3 laps down to the tail end of the lead lap.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @A123

    I still have not finished the 24 Hours of Daytona. The injured Acura was repaired and caught full course cautions at exactly the right intervals. It has managed to come back from 3 laps down to the tail end of the lead lap.

    Acura 1 & 2 — Cadillac 3 — Dang foreigners (shakes fist) They Took My Watch!
    ____

    All is not lost. While GM has failed, The Blue Oval is well represented in the sports car challenge supported by Michelin Pilot rubber… (shakes fist) They Took My Tires!

    Here is the full replay for the… Ahem… French… Look at that S Car Go!

    PEACE 😇

  454. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQIiFDwCXXY

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.

    Orcs had been captured elves who were twisted and corrupted by cruel masters. Likewise, Russians can be said to have been Rus, who were corrupted by their cruel Mongol and Tatar masters.

    Ukrainians were the Rus who had escaped that corruption.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Lol. Tolkien ought to have written about sailors and navies. Might have been more authentic. But I digress.

    Looking at the folk outfit of the Ukraine Cossack and the Mongol, the shaved tonsure, the long stringy moustache and baggy pants, life on horseback. Who got converted there?

    Russians are dull sedentary city dwellers and cereal farmers.

  455. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I don't know anything about Ukraine's Femen. Nor do I care that some Jew* may have been having sex with some of them or not. I appreciate that it seems like a huge deal to you and indicative of some desire of yours to be defiled or whatever, but it doesn't interest me. As for Muslim sources bathing in obsessive jealousy equal to yours, that seems pretty normal for them.

    A very small group of beautiful but histrionic women working with a charismatic and potentially somewhat Machiavellian man, in order to gain attention and money, is not indicative of much, except that those two types often end up together.

    Furthermore, I don't consider those women "defiled." Did he beat them? I can't find any allegations. Or did he just charm them? In which case, they're adults making their own decisions. I am not personally sympathetic to "oh, what a dainty waif I am and victim" hysteria, whether open, like with much of #MeToo, or repressed, like with many Unz commentors, or even Andrew Tate himself.

    *Is he even Jewish? He doesn't look like most of the Jews I have met. He's fair-haired, has a normal East Euro name and is from Khmelnytskyi, which probably has a handful of Jews living in it. Can you find a reputable source for your claim?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Hutsol the acknowledged founder is most certainly a Jew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Hutsol

    “Hutsol is of Jewish origin and was born in Russia but moved to Ukraine with her parents in 1991. She is an economist and a former assistant to singer Ukrainian aero vision winner Tina Karol (nee Liberman).”

    If her male counterpart Victor was not himself Jewish I’d be amazed. Either way they were clearly a couple who were exploiting white girls. Sviatsky’s biography on wiki runs cold. I can’t think why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Is_Not_a_Brothel

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    So it has gone from the abusive man who wants to defile women being a Jew, to a women who got defiled by that man being the Jew.

    I disagree that there was any defilement, but we're now just seeing how bigotry works. it is psychotic in the true sense, that facts and reality are warped to try and fit the perception you prefer.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  456. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts

    It's interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.

    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.

    I hope to think it's because French are such cultural people, they are reading books. But I think something bad also happens with the French films after maybe 1970* - replacement by commercial advertising.

    -
    *Although there is also global problem as Yevardian was saying last month he prefers the 1970s American films than the 1980s https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5746660


    impact of the 1960s cultural trends
     
    1960s "counter-culture" trend was relatively still soulful, "handmade", nonindustrialized. It reminds of earlier times, in some way rebellion against the industrialization of pop culture in the 1950s. This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it's rapidly converted to an industrial product (in mid-1960s, the famous singers were giving free concerts in San Francisco, by 1970s some of the wealthiest people in the world).

    Replies: @Coconuts

    It’s interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.

    I have heard that the Italian versions are worse but I don’t know first hand. There were similar products in the UK at the time, perhaps not as sexualised as some of the French, I am trying to remember… there was a division between the mainstream ‘manufactured’ pop music and the ‘indie’ bands who were all on smaller record labels.

    [MORE]

    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.

    I used to find some of the chanson française stuff interesting, the literary influence in some of it seemed stronger than you would find with mainstream British or US pop music. Like these Serge Gainsbourg songs with lyrics from poems of Nerval and Felix Arvers:

    This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it’s rapidly converted to an industrial product…

    I feel like this spirit had some lingering afterlife through the next few decades, till more and more marginal things were bought up and made corporate or disappeared. By the 2000s it seemed to have fully faded away.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    were bought up and made corporate or disappeared. By the 2000s
     
    Beatles are interesting. My knowledge of their chronology is a little undeveloped (I'm too lazy to Google this), but if I remember, they begin as an industrial product, that is marketed for American mainstream teenagers. But as the counter-culture develops in America, they rapidly change to creating anti-industrial, handbuilt, artistic products. By end of the 1960s, John Lennon is a modern artist working beyond music, protesting the Vietnam war by living in a bed in New York.

    In food analogy, perhaps like there was an originally mass production MacDonald's, which following a change of historical trend, is becoming a creator of organic handmade, hamburgers, that contribute to criticism of the industrialized farm industry.


    . Like these Serge Gainsbourg songs with lyrics
     
    I guess this sweetness is a very Latin culture.It feels like the populist "sweet cake" products in the French bakery ("Pain au chocolat"). But it is 1961. The Latin culture tradition which has been handcooked, by an local chef following family recipes.

    It's after 1980s French films which is really feeling to me industrialized and commercial. Maybe the combination of the sweetness with the robotization, is why the 1980s French culture feels so depressing. "Pain au chocolat" is sweet and superficial food enough, but the supermarket version made by a robot in the factory is worse than non-sweet industrial foods made by robots in the factory.


    similar products in the UK at the time, perhaps not as sexualised as some of the French, .
     
    It's like Pink Floyd, The Who, Joy Division. While more populist and commercial is David Bowie (maybe he is borderzone between independent and commercial), Kate Bush (borderzones), Queen, Human League (which is similar to commercial advertizing), The Cure (which is very commercial) etc.

    British popular music was often including the themes of mild criticism of industrial society.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPpAPIIZyo

  457. @AP
    @Wokechoke


    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.
     
    Orcs had been captured elves who were twisted and corrupted by cruel masters. Likewise, Russians can be said to have been Rus, who were corrupted by their cruel Mongol and Tatar masters.

    Ukrainians were the Rus who had escaped that corruption.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Lol. Tolkien ought to have written about sailors and navies. Might have been more authentic. But I digress.

    Looking at the folk outfit of the Ukraine Cossack and the Mongol, the shaved tonsure, the long stringy moustache and baggy pants, life on horseback. Who got converted there?

    Russians are dull sedentary city dwellers and cereal farmers.

  458. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race happened as Russian history when the Mongols arrived out of practically nowhere and burned down Ryazan, Vladimir, Tver, Tula etc…and some smartarse in Surrey turns around and calls the Russians Orcs.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQIiFDwCXXY

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race

    Whaaaaat….. ????? Nope. All of the sides align to core Europe and WW I.

    • AngloSaxon Orcs were corrupted AngloSaxon Elves.
    • Hobbits are quintessentially British. Downstairs Sam’s deference to Upstairs Mr. Frodo.

    Neither is it a call out to Greta like environmentalist gibberish. Every side mined iron ore to make steel weapons. They all gathered the fuel to run those forges. Saurman was excessively rapacious, not fundamentally different in his exploitation of resources.

    Some Easterlings showed up with Oliphants. However, they were expressions of very rare mystique in the book trilogy. The narrative did not need them. They merely added texture to the environment.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The orcs do appear as thoroughly alien.

    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/russian-disaster-at-the-kalkha-river/

    Replies: @A123

  459. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Hutsol the acknowledged founder is most certainly a Jew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Hutsol


    “Hutsol is of Jewish origin and was born in Russia but moved to Ukraine with her parents in 1991. She is an economist and a former assistant to singer Ukrainian aero vision winner Tina Karol (nee Liberman).”


    If her male counterpart Victor was not himself Jewish I’d be amazed. Either way they were clearly a couple who were exploiting white girls. Sviatsky’s biography on wiki runs cold. I can’t think why.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Is_Not_a_Brothel

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    So it has gone from the abusive man who wants to defile women being a Jew, to a women who got defiled by that man being the Jew.

    I disagree that there was any defilement, but we’re now just seeing how bigotry works. it is psychotic in the true sense, that facts and reality are warped to try and fit the perception you prefer.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You seem remarkably concerned about what went from being the trifling Femen, which was at the time a somewhat baffling to liberal western eyes, funny Radfem street theatre to being what was in fact as Kitty Green showed, Victor’s Harem. Anna Hutsol is certainly a Jew though. If Victor isn’t it would be a surprise.

    I was just pointing out the principle of “Early Life” in praxis.

    Hutsol certainly appears to have let the devil himself have his way with the girls.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  460. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    The main thing that’s creepy about LoTR is that what the AngloSaxon writes as a sort of fantasy where white folk are nearly exterminated by a mysterious Eastern Race
     
    Whaaaaat..... ????? Nope. All of the sides align to core Europe and WW I.

    • AngloSaxon Orcs were corrupted AngloSaxon Elves.
    • Hobbits are quintessentially British. Downstairs Sam's deference to Upstairs Mr. Frodo.

    Neither is it a call out to Greta like environmentalist gibberish. Every side mined iron ore to make steel weapons. They all gathered the fuel to run those forges. Saurman was excessively rapacious, not fundamentally different in his exploitation of resources.

    Some Easterlings showed up with Oliphants. However, they were expressions of very rare mystique in the book trilogy. The narrative did not need them. They merely added texture to the environment.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    • Replies: @A123
    @Wokechoke

    According to authentic Tolkien lore: (1)


    Saruman Orcs were first created from Elves under torture and dark sorcery. Their creation served as an insult to the Children of Ilúvatar. Before the First age
     
    Orcs and Elves are equally AngloSaxon. One was created from the other.

    Do you believe that Adam was White and Eve was Black?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  461. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    So it has gone from the abusive man who wants to defile women being a Jew, to a women who got defiled by that man being the Jew.

    I disagree that there was any defilement, but we're now just seeing how bigotry works. it is psychotic in the true sense, that facts and reality are warped to try and fit the perception you prefer.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    You seem remarkably concerned about what went from being the trifling Femen, which was at the time a somewhat baffling to liberal western eyes, funny Radfem street theatre to being what was in fact as Kitty Green showed, Victor’s Harem. Anna Hutsol is certainly a Jew though. If Victor isn’t it would be a surprise.

    I was just pointing out the principle of “Early Life” in praxis.

    Hutsol certainly appears to have let the devil himself have his way with the girls.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke


    You seem remarkably concerned about what went from being the trifling Femen
     
    This reply of yours is quite insane given that I'm replying to you, knew basically nothing and am merely engaging with your obsession.
  462. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The orcs do appear as thoroughly alien.

    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/russian-disaster-at-the-kalkha-river/

    Replies: @A123

    According to authentic Tolkien lore: (1)

    Saruman Orcs were first created from Elves under torture and dark sorcery. Their creation served as an insult to the Children of Ilúvatar. Before the First age

    Orcs and Elves are equally AngloSaxon. One was created from the other.

    Do you believe that Adam was White and Eve was Black?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.

    Replies: @A123

  463. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    No excuse for this, though. It is just very degenerate.
     
    There doesn't need to be an excuse for it. It is essentially a plot hole.

    Don’t like one of the scenes in Antigone, but I think Zeus’s antics are primarily about his virility.
     
    So if it is about "virility", it is therefore.not "degenerate"?

    Haven’t seen any of the movies you referred to but LotR (and I gather you were referring to the book, which I don’t recall well.)
     
    You don't need to have seen them to understand the examples. E.g 104 year old vampire and 17 year human girl love affair as central plot point.

    It’s about the fact that it is essentially a kids movie, and, instead of trying to inculcate moral values in the youth, they seem to be trying to inculcate an early promiscuity.
     
    If you see an attempt to inculcate early promiscuity in Big, that is your problem. No child would understand what happened. In fact, it is not even certain they had sex.

    Furthermore, what cultured child doesn't read Greek mythology, with its many stories of rape, murder and even Zeus turning into a bull to have sex?

    Maybe recognise that you're sensitive in this area and that you being like that is ok, rather than labelling everything degenerate and living in horror?

    That's not to say that there aren't things which are inappropriate for young children, or stupid older children, as childhood innocence is a thing to defend, but you're way out there. There is no conspiracy and "Big" would certainly not be part of it if there were.

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    There is no conspiracy

    You keep saying that “there is no conspiracy”, with this or that, but the definition of a conspiracy involves only two or more people meeting – it’s a pretty low threshold.

    NGOs usually involve more than one employee, and often pursue goals like open borders, and they are often given state funds, which means that there is some coordination going on with the government.

  464. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    There is the religious passion of the settler youth in Gaza before they were removed from a piece of land. That’s the motive of why they were living in Gaza, It is not completely rational and the land of Israel is strongly mixed with the religious emotion in Judaism. (Removing certain settlements from the West Bank could perhaps be civil war)
     
    These orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.

    They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.

    Can have fun with each other away from civilized people.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    this more scriptural in basis or a

    If you believe Jesus is son of God, there will be Second Coming, New Testament is accurate description of what he says. And Jesus says to his disciplines, the sign of the end times, is when the Temple is destroyed. E.g. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV

    For secular people, this is obviously reference to 70 AD, around time of the writing of the Gospels, when the Second Temple was destroyed by Romans.

    But then if you say it refers to 70AD, the prophecy said by Jesus in multiple Gospels has been false and there was no Second Coming.

    So, if you believe the prophecy of Jesus has to be true, before the Second Coming, it could seem like the only solution, is to believe there will be the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

    In the 19th century, this would not seem likely. Who is there to rebuild the Third Temple in Ottoman Syria. Imagine this in the 1810.

    But after Israel is recreated in 1948. After 1967, when Israel captures the Temple mount, many preconditions for building of the Third Temple are available.

    It’s still unlikely Israel will build the Third Temple as it would create war with the Muslim world. But if you expecting Second Coming, then 1967 would have been an important event. There are not completely impossible scenarios where they would build the Third Temple, for example, if there was war with the Muslim world, religious nationalist government in Israel etc.

    Catholics and Eastern Christians follow

    In earlier years, some Church fathers interpret that the Church itself is the Third Temple, although some Church fathers interpret it as a physical temple. There isn’t consensus, but you can read a few of the very “symbolist” interpretation of this part of the Gospels if you read the Church fathers.

    But for the Protestants who read the Gospels, they can more likely read the text, and there Jesus is pointing at the temple in Jerusalem and talking about its destruction https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV It seems like an ordinary text about the real places.

    Outside the 4th century monastery, it could seem more difficult to interpret as symbolic “the heavenly Jerusalem”, instead of the physical one.

    Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews

    There is also a lot of discussion like it is the crusades, or Europe is oppressing the Muslims.

    But in really it doesn’t match the populations perfectly, even a significant part of Palestinian Arabs are more European in origin than a significant part of Israeli Jews.

    These orthodox.. They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.

    You just need god (or some more people like Joseph Smith) to say to that Utah is the “promised land”, there would be wars between them all for a holy salt lake instead of the interesting historicals sites of the Middle East.

    hese orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.

    These people which wear at all times small hats on the head, are “Datim Leumi” (National Religious), which is subgroup of Orthodox, very different from Haredim (which are like Amish). They are similar to Mormons. It’s like if 19th century Mormons (who were sometimes rebelling against the state) were 10% of the American population.

    In Israel’s society, they have higher than average income,* live middle class lifestyle, build modern housing with cleaner streets, pay taxes, have high education level. So, they are economically useful part of the society. They also often seem to support the secular state.

    But the religious cults can also be dangerous for the state, producing some of the radicals as e.g. with messianic belief, even killing Prime Minister Rabin. Instead of just voting, they can use physical force, moving in illegal settlements.

    Without two-state solution, Israel probably will not survive as a functional country in the long term, so it’s possible the religious nationalists can not just a dangerous trend for Israel, but even would help to bury Israel to the trashcan of history by preventing disengagement from the West Bank.

    There is spectrum of some moderation among the datim leumim though. Some of them are quite anti-racist. Some are just moderates that use religious rhetoric. For example, Naftali Bennett after he was elected, he paused settlements and was behaving like more liberal Mitt Romney, leading the diverse government of environmentalists, LGBT activists, even allied to the Islamist party “Ra’am”.

    *While Haredim have the lowest income of all groups in Israel and the highest male unemployment rate. But Haredim are only interested in continuing their life-style, don’t have the same effect for the external policy.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    before the Second Coming, it could seem like the only solution, is to believe there will be the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

     

    If they knew the future, they should have written more clearly about the 2000 year spaces in the prophecy, as the beginning of the prophecy referring to the Second Temple. However, many evangelicals believe "the abomination that causes desolation" is already talking about what will happen in the Third Temple.

    The prophecy also continues about the fourth Jewish exile, so from the normal view, it is based on 70 AD (again around when the text was written).

    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV

    If the second Temple is destroyed around 70 AD, then "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles".

    But then to try to match the prophecy to what happened, almost 2000 years later, "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled", interpreted by evangelicals as 1948/1967.

  465. @A123
    @Wokechoke

    According to authentic Tolkien lore: (1)


    Saruman Orcs were first created from Elves under torture and dark sorcery. Their creation served as an insult to the Children of Ilúvatar. Before the First age
     
    Orcs and Elves are equally AngloSaxon. One was created from the other.

    Do you believe that Adam was White and Eve was Black?

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Wokechoke


    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.
     
    As better phrasing:

    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people's history.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Emil Nikola Richard

  466. There is no conspiracy

    You keep saying that “there is no conspiracy”, with this or that, but the definition of a conspiracy involves only two or more people meeting – it’s a pretty low threshold

    Hmmm…. I typically think of conspiracy having a connection to secrecy.

    If a group of SJW Islamists openly admit their activity…. Is that a conspiracy?

    NGOs usually involve more than one employee,

    The “tell” with NGO’s is not the number of staff. It is the lying.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    Hmmm…. I typically think of conspiracy having a connection to secrecy.

    If a group of SJW Islamists openly admit their activity…. Is that a conspiracy?
     
    Yes, that is problem. We are hobbled by language. A lot of these things have evil elements that are out in the open, and there is no word with sinister connotations for that. I think Reiner_tor suggested the word "transpiracy" or something. But it is hard to increase vocab as IQ is declining.

    Still, I think it would be even more shocking, if we had better information on them. Wiretaps, email, etc. I believe a lot of it is still hidden, including how they organize and give out orders to street thugs, and bus people around.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  467. @Dmitry
    @Yahya


    this more scriptural in basis or a

     

    If you believe Jesus is son of God, there will be Second Coming, New Testament is accurate description of what he says. And Jesus says to his disciplines, the sign of the end times, is when the Temple is destroyed. E.g. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV

    For secular people, this is obviously reference to 70 AD, around time of the writing of the Gospels, when the Second Temple was destroyed by Romans.

    But then if you say it refers to 70AD, the prophecy said by Jesus in multiple Gospels has been false and there was no Second Coming.

    So, if you believe the prophecy of Jesus has to be true, before the Second Coming, it could seem like the only solution, is to believe there will be the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

    In the 19th century, this would not seem likely. Who is there to rebuild the Third Temple in Ottoman Syria. Imagine this in the 1810.

    But after Israel is recreated in 1948. After 1967, when Israel captures the Temple mount, many preconditions for building of the Third Temple are available.

    It's still unlikely Israel will build the Third Temple as it would create war with the Muslim world. But if you expecting Second Coming, then 1967 would have been an important event. There are not completely impossible scenarios where they would build the Third Temple, for example, if there was war with the Muslim world, religious nationalist government in Israel etc.


    Catholics and Eastern Christians follow

     

    In earlier years, some Church fathers interpret that the Church itself is the Third Temple, although some Church fathers interpret it as a physical temple. There isn't consensus, but you can read a few of the very "symbolist" interpretation of this part of the Gospels if you read the Church fathers.

    But for the Protestants who read the Gospels, they can more likely read the text, and there Jesus is pointing at the temple in Jerusalem and talking about its destruction https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV It seems like an ordinary text about the real places.

    Outside the 4th century monastery, it could seem more difficult to interpret as symbolic "the heavenly Jerusalem", instead of the physical one.


    Islam’s will to power; the desire of Muslims to exert dominance over Jews

     

    There is also a lot of discussion like it is the crusades, or Europe is oppressing the Muslims.

    But in really it doesn't match the populations perfectly, even a significant part of Palestinian Arabs are more European in origin than a significant part of Israeli Jews.


    These orthodox.. They should be deported to Antarctica along with the Islamists.
     
    You just need god (or some more people like Joseph Smith) to say to that Utah is the "promised land", there would be wars between them all for a holy salt lake instead of the interesting historicals sites of the Middle East.

    hese orthodox sickos are appallingly stupid and greedy.
     
    These people which wear at all times small hats on the head, are "Datim Leumi" (National Religious), which is subgroup of Orthodox, very different from Haredim (which are like Amish). They are similar to Mormons. It's like if 19th century Mormons (who were sometimes rebelling against the state) were 10% of the American population.

    In Israel's society, they have higher than average income,* live middle class lifestyle, build modern housing with cleaner streets, pay taxes, have high education level. So, they are economically useful part of the society. They also often seem to support the secular state.

    But the religious cults can also be dangerous for the state, producing some of the radicals as e.g. with messianic belief, even killing Prime Minister Rabin. Instead of just voting, they can use physical force, moving in illegal settlements.

    Without two-state solution, Israel probably will not survive as a functional country in the long term, so it's possible the religious nationalists can not just a dangerous trend for Israel, but even would help to bury Israel to the trashcan of history by preventing disengagement from the West Bank.

    There is spectrum of some moderation among the datim leumim though. Some of them are quite anti-racist. Some are just moderates that use religious rhetoric. For example, Naftali Bennett after he was elected, he paused settlements and was behaving like more liberal Mitt Romney, leading the diverse government of environmentalists, LGBT activists, even allied to the Islamist party "Ra'am".

    -

    *While Haredim have the lowest income of all groups in Israel and the highest male unemployment rate. But Haredim are only interested in continuing their life-style, don't have the same effect for the external policy.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    before the Second Coming, it could seem like the only solution, is to believe there will be the rebuilding of the Third Temple.

    If they knew the future, they should have written more clearly about the 2000 year spaces in the prophecy, as the beginning of the prophecy referring to the Second Temple. However, many evangelicals believe “the abomination that causes desolation” is already talking about what will happen in the Third Temple.

    The prophecy also continues about the fourth Jewish exile, so from the normal view, it is based on 70 AD (again around when the text was written).

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021&version=NIV

    If the second Temple is destroyed around 70 AD, then “They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles”.

    But then to try to match the prophecy to what happened, almost 2000 years later, “until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”, interpreted by evangelicals as 1948/1967.

  468. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.

    Replies: @A123

    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.

    As better phrasing:

    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people’s history.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Not really. The English live on an Island. They are not a continental people. Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols. Even Conan the Barbarian looks like the same plagiarism. here's a loosely fantastic story about Batu Khan destroying Ryazan...The director is riffing off 300 and Jackson's LotR but it's also Historical.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHmSiswINw

    Replies: @AP

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123


    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people’s history.
     
    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?

    Replies: @A123

  469. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    The Temple was already destroyed in 70AD. So, for the prophecy of Jesus to still be true, there would be assumption have to be Third Temple constructed before the end times.
     
    This does not have to be true. Apparently, for God "soon" can mean thousands of years - already in prophetic writings, e.g. Habakuk 2:3, it is said I come "soon".

    For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak and not lie. Though it tarry, wait for it, because it will surely come; it will not tarry.

    Therefore, there is reading of Apocalypse/Revelation which spreads the End Times from the destruction of the Temple to basically now. This is supported by the fact that historically there were several end times already eg. millenarism and the time of Crusades. See my comment no:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-207/#comment-5790439

    If these past "end times" weren't really final, there are only two possibilities: 1) the End Time did not come yet, 2) The End Time already started a long time ago and is still ongoing.

    For many reasons - control, keeping life going on, keeping open the possibilities of manipulating Scripture - it is (1) which will be popular among churchmen and not (2).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    In the beginning of the prophecy, it would be the Second Temple. But the parts about “abomination of desolation” are often interpreted to be reference to the Third Temple, which can be seen as either a future Temple, or current Church.

    This is how Martin Luther interpreted the texts, with the famous conclusion the Pope is the anti-Christ.

    instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

    It’s like the old discussion about the revolution. Marx says communism is scientifically inevitable. So, why do you need revolutionary activity? The end time will come, when god is ready.

    E.g. Evangelicals are helping to fund the return of Ethiopian Jews to Israel, with perhaps partial motivation (although they also are just normal charity) to try to shift the end time forward by ending the fourth exile. It can seem like the Lenin’s attitude to pushing into communism before the current historical stage, or in the incorrect country.

    But I think they will see this as the question of being “instrument of God”. They aren’t shifting end time forward, but will believe they are instrument of God, who is preparing the end time.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    As for the state of Israel: nowhere the Bible says that there will be gathering Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again. BTW, Mormons - who, according to themselves - are also "Israel", this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.

    I think that people who think they are the arm of God fulfilling prophecy (Evangelicals, Chabad-Lubavitch, Zionists, etc) among themselves aren't absolutely sure which interpretation is right, and thus they try to bring to life different versions of their readings. It creates the confusion of end times.

    Under one such reading, since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists. And there is a strong push from some Jewish feminists to allow women pray there ... which could be read as "abomination of desolation", since women were originally banned from the Temple.

    That exposes the serious problem of trying to be a tool of God during the End Times: since these End Times are evil to a large extent, substantial number of human tools would have to be evil, and thus could not reasonably expect a prize from God under literal (not Kabbalistic etc) reading of the Bible. This would be like "counterrevolutionaries" getting medals from Stalin after all. But apparently they are still going on...

    Replies: @Dmitry

  470. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.
     
    As better phrasing:

    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people's history.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Not really. The English live on an Island. They are not a continental people. Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols. Even Conan the Barbarian looks like the same plagiarism. here’s a loosely fantastic story about Batu Khan destroying Ryazan…The director is riffing off 300 and Jackson’s LotR but it’s also Historical.

    • Troll: A123
    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke


    Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols
     
    Muscovites/Russians are the Slavs who were occupied by the Mongols longest and who became their most faithful servants, learning their ways, intermarrying with them (on the elite level, commoners didn’t do this), and becoming like them (politically), before finally overthrowing them and taking their place.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  471. @A123


    There is no conspiracy
     
    You keep saying that “there is no conspiracy”, with this or that, but the definition of a conspiracy involves only two or more people meeting – it’s a pretty low threshold
     
    Hmmm.... I typically think of conspiracy having a connection to secrecy.

    If a group of SJW Islamists openly admit their activity.... Is that a conspiracy?

    NGOs usually involve more than one employee,
     
    The "tell" with NGO's is not the number of staff. It is the lying.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    Hmmm…. I typically think of conspiracy having a connection to secrecy.

    If a group of SJW Islamists openly admit their activity…. Is that a conspiracy?

    Yes, that is problem. We are hobbled by language. A lot of these things have evil elements that are out in the open, and there is no word with sinister connotations for that. I think Reiner_tor suggested the word “transpiracy” or something. But it is hard to increase vocab as IQ is declining.

    Still, I think it would be even more shocking, if we had better information on them. Wiretaps, email, etc. I believe a lot of it is still hidden, including how they organize and give out orders to street thugs, and bus people around.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    This is the most ludicrous motre & bailey I've ever seen. First, conspiracy is literally everything. Then the fact that literally everything fits your definition of conspiracy is proof of your extraordinary and Byzantine claims.

    Replies: @songbird

  472. Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?

    [MORE]

    • LOL: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?
     
    A noteworthy warning. Yes. Prophecy, not so much. It was an observation on current events.

    Today is much less threatening:

        Vast and pathetic
            Depths of utter drek
        Inadequacy manifests
            Annihilation a shadow
        Regardless of intent
            Incapacity prevails


    The fact that I am attempting free verse poetry is possibly a sign of the "end of time".

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    , @S
    @songbird


    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?
     
    Maybe.

    I just know the talk about shooting the Chinese balloon down over land 'might get someone hurt by falling debris' was a bunch of malarky.

    Providing it was indeed a 'Chinese spy balloon', by letting it complete it's mission and shooting it down over the Atlantic is just more evidence, if any was needed, that the 'Big Guy' is bought and paid for by various 'state actors', ie the Ukrainians probably, and likely the Chinese to a degree as well, and, who knows who else. Hunter's suppressed laptop is plenty evidence of it.

    The United States has the ability to shoot down hostiles quicksmart, when it wants to, such as the Japanese Fu-go bomb balloons in the clip below being shot down by Aleutian (Alaska) based US fighters in the Spring of 1945.

    I'm just glad I don't take this kind of stuff as seriously as I once did. :-)

    https://youtu.be/-XPnFRasAJQ
  473. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You seem remarkably concerned about what went from being the trifling Femen, which was at the time a somewhat baffling to liberal western eyes, funny Radfem street theatre to being what was in fact as Kitty Green showed, Victor’s Harem. Anna Hutsol is certainly a Jew though. If Victor isn’t it would be a surprise.

    I was just pointing out the principle of “Early Life” in praxis.

    Hutsol certainly appears to have let the devil himself have his way with the girls.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    You seem remarkably concerned about what went from being the trifling Femen

    This reply of yours is quite insane given that I’m replying to you, knew basically nothing and am merely engaging with your obsession.

  474. @songbird
    @A123


    Hmmm…. I typically think of conspiracy having a connection to secrecy.

    If a group of SJW Islamists openly admit their activity…. Is that a conspiracy?
     
    Yes, that is problem. We are hobbled by language. A lot of these things have evil elements that are out in the open, and there is no word with sinister connotations for that. I think Reiner_tor suggested the word "transpiracy" or something. But it is hard to increase vocab as IQ is declining.

    Still, I think it would be even more shocking, if we had better information on them. Wiretaps, email, etc. I believe a lot of it is still hidden, including how they organize and give out orders to street thugs, and bus people around.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    This is the most ludicrous motre & bailey I’ve ever seen. First, conspiracy is literally everything. Then the fact that literally everything fits your definition of conspiracy is proof of your extraordinary and Byzantine claims.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Then the fact that literally everything fits your definition of conspiracy is proof of your extraordinary and Byzantine claims.
     
    What exactly is your definition of conspiracy, such that it is never reached? What are you looking for? Some global organization that calls itself SPECTRE, Thrush, or KAOS?

    So dozens of NGOs with hundreds of employees and millions of revenue, interacting and coordinating with the government to operate ships to transport migrants, to compile lists of dissidents so they can be targeted by their banks and harassed by police, wouldn't do it? The idea that some remote states and areas are "too white" and they need to have migrants rammed down the throat of the local populace isn't a conspiracy?

    In the US alone, $137 million in federal funds are given to NGOs operating in Mexico to help transport migrants north.
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/ngos-assisting-migrants-who-cross-border-humanitarian-support-abetting-crime

    In order to think that there are no conspiracies, one would have to believe that man is not a social animal, and has no ideologies. That nobody subscribes to an open borders ideology.

    It is completely obvious you're a partisan for open borders. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so invested in saying that "there is no conspiracy." And you wouldn't use the Press's phrase "Great Replacement Theory", which is an addendum on the actual coined phrase "Great Replacement", meant to make it seem as if something obviously observable isn't happening.
  475. @songbird
    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?
    https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY

    Replies: @A123, @S

    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?

    A noteworthy warning. Yes. Prophecy, not so much. It was an observation on current events.

    Today is much less threatening:

        Vast and pathetic
            Depths of utter drek
        Inadequacy manifests
            Annihilation a shadow
        Regardless of intent
            Incapacity prevails

    The fact that I am attempting free verse poetry is possibly a sign of the “end of time”.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    The fact that I am attempting free verse poetry is possibly a sign of the “end of time”.
     
    Lately, I have been inspired by the humorous doggerel of ChatGPT.

    In old times, it seems like everyone composed. I wonder what a society would be like, if everyone were forced to do it. Like, you had to pay for certain things in prose.
    _____
    I did not watch Biden's speech, but I caught a few minutes of an AI-voice generated Biden reading a prepared text. I can't summarize it all, but one point intrigued me. He said something to the effect that "thousands of years of evolution have made men good at sniffing out trannies."

    It is funny to think of men dressing as women to try to lure other men into some ambush, and being detected from a long distance off.

    But I don't think it is true. I think it is more that men are selected to find healthy women and there isn't any intersection between healthy women and men of any sort.
  476. If anyone saw Biden’s State of the Union tonight, you will understand why so many Americans back Putin’s war.

    I. Hate. Liberals. And I am correct to do so.

    So this war is very difficult for me and I’m sure I’m not the only one. It’s a battle between my conscience and my deep tribal hatred for white liberals. You pro Ukrainians can say whatever you want but a Ukrainian victory in this war will correctly be seen as a victory for GloboHomo. Just look at the way the US Congress tonight was all decked out in their Ukraine gear. You think that is because they have all suddenly become Ukrainian ultra nationalists? No, it’s because they know that this is their war too.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William

    , @AP
    @Greasy William

    There is a great Op-Ed by young Republican Senator Tom Cotton and architect of Trump’s attempted immigration reform, regarding Ukraine in the WSJ today.

    It highlights how Biden’s weakness and lukewarm support for Ukraine (especially before the war) have helped Putin:

    The American Case for Supporting Ukraine

    The U.S. can back its allies and send a message to the Chinese, without sparking a wider war in Europe

    After years of observing Russian leaders up close during World War II, Winston Churchill remarked that “there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness.” Churchill therefore warned against “offering temptations to a trial of strength.”

    Unfortunately, that’s exactly what President Biden did in his first year in office, tempting Vladimir Putin to pursue his long-standing ambition to reassemble the Russian Empire by conquering Ukraine. Having failed to deter the war, Mr. Biden’s timid approach has now prolonged it.



    Thanks to his failures, some Americans wonder whether we should continue to support Ukraine. But cutting off Ukraine wouldn’t end the war. It would only increase the chances of a Russian victory and harm our interests in deterring wider wars in Europe and Asia.

    Mr. Biden appeased Russia from the start, from a no-conditions extension of a one-sided nuclear-arms treaty, to the waiving of sanctions on Russia’s Nord Stream 2 pipeline, to freezing an arms shipment to Ukraine. Then came the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan. This humiliating failure telegraphed weakness and incompetence, and Russia soon massed an invasion force along Ukraine’s border.

    Mr. Biden responded by hinting at disunity in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and suggesting he might tolerate a “minor incursion” by Russia into Ukraine. Convinced of his strength and his enemies’ weakness, Mr. Putin went for the jugular.

    The Ukrainians stood their ground and fought. Yet Mr. Biden has dragged his feet all along, hesitating fearfully to send the Ukrainians the weapons and intelligence they need to win. Today, Mr. Biden stubbornly refuses to provide fighter jets, cluster munitions and long-range missiles to Ukraine. As a result of Mr. Biden’s half-measures, Ukraine has only half-succeeded.

    We should back Ukraine to the hilt, because the likeliest alternative isn’t peace, but rather another “frozen conflict” that favors Russia and harms our interests. Russia would retain key strategic terrain and much of Ukraine’s industry and agriculture. Food and energy prices would remain high, potentially starving many nations and exacerbating the migrant crisis in the West.

    Meanwhile, Russia could rebuild its strength and seize the rest of Ukraine when the opportunity arises. Such an outcome would create millions more Ukrainian refugees, drive inflation higher and worsen supply-chain disruptions. Russia would also extend its border deep into Europe. Next on the chopping block could be Moldova, site of another frozen conflict. And after that, a NATO nation.

    Stopping Russia also will allow the U.S. to focus on the greater threat from China. A Russian victory would force us to divert more resources for a longer time to Europe to deter Russian expansionism, creating persistent threats on both fronts. But a Ukrainian victory and a durable peace will secure our European flank as we confront China.

    The Chinese dictator, Xi Jinping, is closely watching the war in Ukraine. If the West falters, he will conclude that we will never fight to protect Taiwan. In the 1930s, the West tempted the Axis powers by appeasing naked aggression against small countries like Ethiopia and Czechoslovakia. Some Western politicians may have forgotten the lessons of history, but Mr. Xi hasn’t.

    Our support for Ukraine can also save American money and lives in the long run. A sizable portion of our outlays will be spent on replacing the older weapons and materiel we’ve sent to Ukraine with newer equipment for our troops. Along with lessons learned from the Ukrainian battlefield, our military can emerge better equipped, trained and prepared to defeat our adversaries.

    War is always expensive, but we must measure the current costs against the greater potential cost of wider war in Europe or Asia. The Ukrainians are fighting their own war, with no American troops engaged in direct combat—which won’t be the case if irresolution in Ukraine tempts our enemies to attack a NATO ally or Taiwan. Had the West retaliated when Germany remilitarized the Rhineland in 1936, that small operation might’ve seemed expensive and risky at the time, but it likely would’ve prevented world war.

    History also shows that we can oppose Russian aggression without sparking a wider war. We fought proxy wars against Soviet Russia across the world in the last century. We armed insurgents during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Russians not only armed our enemies in Korea and Vietnam, but also took part in the fighting, shooting down American pilots. These proxy wars were more provocative than anything we’ve done to support Ukraine. In no case did they lead to war between our two countries.

    Of course, we must also demand that our allies do their fair share. Hardy nations like the United Kingdom, Poland, and the Baltic states have carried their share of the load, but wealthy laggards such as France and especially Germany must do more. As ever, though, we can’t allow European weakness to constrain American action.

    The Ukrainian people are fighting with spirit and resolve, exercising what Churchill called “the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in.” Their cause is sympathetic, but the world is a dangerous place and America shouldn’t act out of sympathy alone. We act to protect our vital national interests. That’s the case in Ukraine, and we deserve a strategy of victory to match.

    Mr. Cotton, a Republican, is a U.S. senator from Arkansas.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William

    I looked at a couple of recaps for a minute.

    For the first time in years Naked Capitalism did not have a live coverage comment thread which has become my most favorite.

    That asshole Bono was there.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/07/bono-state-union-joe-jill-biden-guests/11207250002/

    Isn't that guy on the unredacted Epstein plane passenger lists like a dozen times? It's too much trouble to keep a pristine account with the child rapists. Or statutory teenager rapists. Whatever.

  477. … Ukrainian victory in this war will correctly be seen as a victory for GloboHomo

    There is not much chance of a victory, so they will have a problem. But it is unfair to the poor Ukies, they don’t seem any more GH than the Russians. Western uber-liberals are out of control, this is their peak moment that has been building up for decades (centuries?) They reached the point when they run almost everything, but are unable to actually do almost anything right – they lost the basic competence and the ability to think stuff through. It is all emotions and slogans, colorful props and a total devotion to the cause.

    I don’t give them too long, when the goodies start running out – as they will – the backlash will come. I don’t know when and how, but when it is over, very few of today’s mad-world-liberals will own up to this silly circus…just like our Unz resident Kiev fire-eaters (AP? Mr. Hacks?) they will scuttle away not to be heard from again…

    There actually is such a thing as a garbage heap of history. The ones heading there like to mock it (it is a funny image), but it exists…full of the previous ideologue madmen, and the liberals are about to join them…unfortunately maybe not in the heartlands of this idiocy.

  478. @AP
    @Beckow


    “Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers”

    You tell us how many did they invaded with? 160k?
     
    I can’t check back but it in February I was arguing with the pro-Russians about whether the invasion force was 250,000 (my estimate) or 400,000 (the pro-Russian estimate). These numbers includes Russian ground forces plus Donbas militias plus Russian navy (Black Sea Fleet) and air force personnel.

    I was arguing that the Russians would not be able to conquer and occupy Ukraine, which would resist, with such numbers. The pro-Russians were predicting a swift Russian victory. So did you (but I don’t think you gave a number for the Russian invasion force). Who was right?

    The bloodbath wouldn’t be happening if Washington didn’t decide to move Nato to Russia’s borders and the silly morons in Kiev didn’t enthusiastically sign up for it
     
    The only question is if you are dumb to believe this nonsense yourself, or if you are deliberately lying.

    The reason for the invasion is strategic but not specifically to do with NATO, which is an excuse. Russia wants to keep Ukraine in its orbit.

    Prior to Maidan there was hope of doing so, thanks to the large pro-Russian population. Yanukovich has signed into the Eurasian Union which would have linked the economies and bounded Ukraine to Russia.

    After Maidan, there was the still hope of doing so via the Minsk accord, which would have forced Donbas into Ukraine with special autonomy and veto power over national policies. There was also the hope that Ukraine’s economy would go into an endless free fall and that impoverished Ukrainians would change their mind about their turn to the EU and would come crawling back to Russia.

    However, neither of these were happening. Zelensky wasn’t willing to implement Russia’s interpretation of Minsk, and Ukraine’s economy not only recovered but had become better than it had been prior to Maidan. Moreover, the economy was now shifting westward. In addition to these, the Church was now different and the Russian language was in retreat. And Ukraine’s military was getting stronger. Ukraine was inexorably leaving Russia behind and integrating with the West. Without intervention the dream of a united Rus was over, permanent separation was inevitable. The only way to stop this process was to invade before things got even worse for Russia.

    So this was why Russia invaded. NATO was an excuse for dummies (otherwise why no problems for Finland which is just as close?). This was a desperate attempt to make one Rus. One based on a terrible miscalculation about how far Ukraine had already moved from Russia.

    As the Ukie soldiers die in the freezing mud they must be thinking “all this so we can be in Nato
     
    We already know that you are in essence a complete lackey and this is the only way you can think: “whom to serve?” So this is the only way you can imagine the Ukrainians thinking.

    Ukrainians are fighting because they don’t want Moscow to choose their leaders, to choose whether they join Europe or Eurasia, to determine their country’s internal language policies, to choose the size of their military, or to decide what their constitution will look like (all demands made by Moscow upon Ukraine). In other words, the Ukrainians fight for the independence of their country. This is something that you Beckow, a natural lackey, are incapable of understanding.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …The reason for the invasion is strategic but not specifically to do with NATO

    How can a grown-up write an idiotic sentence like that and expect to be taken seriously? Are you really that dense or desperate that you will deny the nose between your eyes?

    What could possibly be ‘strategic‘ without involvement of Nato? You know it and so you consciously lie: Washington has a plan to move Nato into Ukraine on the Russian borders, eventually missiles and bases would follow. Nato announced it every year since 2008, Kiev government has the ‘Nato membership’ in the Ukie Constitution (2019)…can you imagine that a grown-up would deny that?

    The rest of your post is a feeble attempt to deny the obvious: Nato moving to Ukraine was a red line for Russia and led to the war. The Ukie soldiers are dying for the desire to be in Nato. Morons who lack critical thinking will lie and deny that the strategy is: get Ukieland into Nato. But you look really stupid, let it go, so we can discuss realities: who wins, who loses. When you go nutty ideological (Freedom!!!) nobody takes you seriously.

  479. @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In the beginning of the prophecy, it would be the Second Temple. But the parts about "abomination of desolation" are often interpreted to be reference to the Third Temple, which can be seen as either a future Temple, or current Church.

    This is how Martin Luther interpreted the texts, with the famous conclusion the Pope is the anti-Christ.


    instead obsessed with building the “Third Temple” to shift the ENd Time back, as you say.

     

    It's like the old discussion about the revolution. Marx says communism is scientifically inevitable. So, why do you need revolutionary activity? The end time will come, when god is ready.

    E.g. Evangelicals are helping to fund the return of Ethiopian Jews to Israel, with perhaps partial motivation (although they also are just normal charity) to try to shift the end time forward by ending the fourth exile. It can seem like the Lenin's attitude to pushing into communism before the current historical stage, or in the incorrect country.

    But I think they will see this as the question of being "instrument of God". They aren't shifting end time forward, but will believe they are instrument of God, who is preparing the end time.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    As for the state of Israel: nowhere the Bible says that there will be gathering Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again. BTW, Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.

    I think that people who think they are the arm of God fulfilling prophecy (Evangelicals, Chabad-Lubavitch, Zionists, etc) among themselves aren’t absolutely sure which interpretation is right, and thus they try to bring to life different versions of their readings. It creates the confusion of end times.

    Under one such reading, since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists. And there is a strong push from some Jewish feminists to allow women pray there … which could be read as “abomination of desolation”, since women were originally banned from the Temple.

    That exposes the serious problem of trying to be a tool of God during the End Times: since these End Times are evil to a large extent, substantial number of human tools would have to be evil, and thus could not reasonably expect a prize from God under literal (not Kabbalistic etc) reading of the Bible. This would be like “counterrevolutionaries” getting medals from Stalin after all. But apparently they are still going on…

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.
     
    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don't have to follow the Bible's texts. It's not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market "Christianity" to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).


    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again
     
    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be "heavenly Jerusalem"), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.


    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg


    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists
     
    Sure, Jesus says "not one stone will be left on another " (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    -

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    https://i.imgur.com/uvf2rG4.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

  480. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    1. Censorship is at an historical low, if we exclude just the one decade of the 1990s. And even then, practical access to all information has never been higher. In fact, it is orders of magnitude higher than the 1990s.

    2. The effects of AI, genetic engineering and artificial wombs will make much your talking points moot. What even is HBD when embryos are routinely improved genetically?

    3. What region or country has less censorship than the West? Certainly not Russia nor China.

    4. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the ok.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Coconuts, @Beckow

    …Censorship is at an historical low

    Right…where do you live for god’s sake? Nobody cares about moral censorship that is indeed almost nonexistent today. The relevant censorship – migration, race, homo-gender issues, Corona, Trump and populism, war… – is at a very high level. It has definitely increased from the 1990-2000’s (who cares about before?) You minimizing it is troubling: perfection is not the goal, but at least acknowledge reality.

    Where is it better? Some smaller Euro nations have managed to stay relatively sane, even UK is better than US allowing a broader expression of views. France and Italy are also less controlled. I occasionally follow Russian media and the discussions are broader and less scripted. After the war started they are more patriotic, but there is still room for other views and that is missing in the Western media. You don’t understand Russian and live with a stereotype that has been beaten into your mind for decades – you are thus unable to evaluate things on their merits (that was the point of propagandizing you).

    My point about the West peaking only listed censorship as one noticeable aspect. I mentioned other troubling things: economy that has nowhere to go – too financialised with fiat money, not enough real work or resources. The unbearable preachiness that has taken over the West – you also fall into it. The migration-demographic issue (AI won’t fix it:) The inability to fight wars other than use others (like the Ukies) or bomb from distance (very inhuman). The cultural collapse – Hollywood is brain-dead, black Ann Boleyn is idiotic…

    I share some of your optimism because it takes a long time to destroy institutions – it is a slow bumpy decline and not a collapse. There are also no ready alternatives either in the West or elsewhere. So the transition could be long and quite pleasant. But the peak is behind…it is all downhill now, maybe with nice views, but you know where you are going…

  481. @Gerard1234
    @Beckow


    You numbers are interesting, but it still leaves – by any count – about 1 million competent Ukies to fight. In one year Russia eliminated around 200-300k, at this rate Kiev can mindlessly resist for 2-3 more years – plus each year a few hundred thousand young ones mature and there are thousands of marginals from abroad.
     
    Hi there. I go on the assumption that its highly probable Ukronazis have lost 500k-700k dead or injured already. The 7% was stated as the maximum level they could achieve, but in reality I doubt they have the infrastructure and industrial capacity, economy or population demographics to even reach 4-5% getting mobilised...... much like India if it ever got into a state of total war with China , would struggle to mobilise even 2% into their army for several years.
    I will repeat that these levels of casualties are immense for a war that is semi-localised, and by comparison to other wars - of medium intensity . So your word of "rate" will become even more exponential then it is now to 404 in a true state of total war with mass strategic bombing campaign and Russia placing anywhere near the number of forces we assumed they would at the start of the SMO, instead of the minimal number they have since the start - the linear comparison won't work.
    Closer to 0% than to 10% of ukropmothers already in Europe will allow there 17, 18 year old etc son to go back Im sure

    Well this is interesting but I do believe the decision from the EU to allow free-movement of Ukrainians at the very start of the war, which effectively meant every woman and child could go

    Replies: @Beckow

    I don’t disagree with your numbers, including the fact that many of the younger 16-17-18 year olds are probably safely in Europe (or Russia in some cases:). It is rather idiotic to fight a bloody war with open borders.

    But you don’t need that many soldiers: half a million to 700k would be enough for Kiev this year and next. And they can assemble that many. Even if we assume that 70-80% of 16-18 year olds will not be available that still leaves a few hundred thousand.

    Attrition works on small nations, not so well on bigger ones. One unknown is the impact of losses on the Ukie morale – surprisingly at the beginning a lot of people are too stupid to realize that war means death, lot of it. Beginnings as in many other enterprises are the easy part.

    What tends to happen as the bloody reality becomes obvious is polarization: most people don’t want to have anything to do with, but for a minority it becomes a way of life, they embrace it, enjoy it… We can play with the numbers and ratios for Ukies, how large will be the committed minority? I can imagine that even 100-200k committed Ukies (really, modern day fanatics) would fight to the absolute end.

    This will still get quite interesting. Dying for desire to be in Nato – they should put it on their uniforms.

  482. Having recently been in Cambodia, much of whose art is inspired by the Indian epic the Mahabharata, especially in Angkor Wat, I was inspired to begin dabbling a little in that massive tome and reading what others have written about it.

    (As I’ve said before, Southeast Asia is as much Hindu as it is Buddhist – next time I return I will be much more on the lookout for the Hindu and also the animist elements in that culture, and investigate that fascinating side more. I want to learn more about animism as it is currently lived in Asia especially – not as a dead culture, but as a living, glowing reality.)

    It is a ridiculously huge book, and I don’t know if anyone has read it through, but it is also a book of surpassing beauty and inspiration.

    A few scenes towards the end struck me as especially powerful and moving –

    After the Great War that forms the central plot of the book is finished, the five hero brothers, their wife, and one of their dogs, begun climbing the great Himalayan mountains in order to reach one of the great Heavens and there find repose. One by one they fall to their deaths in the high snowy mountains, as their various karmas overtake them, until finally only the Great King and his loyal dog reach the gates of Heaven.

    There he is greeted by the Gods, who tell him he cannot enter with his dog because dogs are unclean and cannot enter heaven. There is no place for them there. But the Great King refuses to enter Heaven then – his dog has been faithful to him, he will be faithful to his dog. The Gods try and persuade him, but he refuses to relent – he will remain faithful to his dog to the end, just as his dog was loyal to him to the end.

    It’s a beautiful scene.

    (In the end, it turns out his dog is really an incarnation of a God and this was a final test of his virtue – which he passed 🙂 )

    Indian culture perhaps always had a certain tenderness towards animals that we see illustrated here.

    After entering heaven, the Great King doesn’t see his lost brothers and wife who he expected to find – instead, he sees his enemies laughing and feasting. Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.

    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!

    Wendy Doniger has written a book called After the War, about the final chapters of the Mahabharata – to me, the war is the less interesting part of the book simply because how much can you write about battle. I acknowledge the grandeur and power of war epics, and I’ve enjoyed the Iliad, but I also was always more fascinated by the Odyssey.

    However, I haven’t read Donigers book yet so don’t know if it’s any good, but I’m looking forward.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Although to be fair, the early Christians - real Christianity - would often evince a similar noble compassion towards animals.

    The wonderful and magnificent St Isaac the Syrian has this to say on the salvation of the animals (he's well worth reading in general) -


    What is a merciful heart? It is a heart on fire for the whole of creation, for humanity, for the birds, for the animals, for demons, (!) and for all that exists. By the recollection of them the eyes of a merciful person pour forth tears in abundance. By the strong and vehement mercy that grips such a person’s heart, and by such great compassion, the heart is humbled and one cannot bear to hear or to see any injury or slight sorrow in any in creation. For this reason, such a person offers up tearful prayer continually even for irrational beasts, for the enemies of the truth, and for those who harm her or him, that they be protected and receive mercy. And in like manner such a person prays for the family of reptiles because of the great compassion that burns without measure in a heart that is in the likeness of God.
     
    Even the demons deserve our compassion and prayers, even the family of reptiles - this is a Christianity I can get behind :) This is something big and huge and awesome and the opposite of all pettiness and small mindedness.

    Would that Christianity had stayed true to this spirit!
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As a person who kind of dislikes dogs (as a child I was especially scared of them, they jumped upon me on the street several times), I would tend to agree with the opinion that dogs are "unclean". Unless you are a born extrovert, dogs will bring mainly chaos and their out of place, irritating, jumpy happiness to your home... dogs do not know what solemnity or melancholy mean... Imagine Heaven, where dogs would be happily jumping upon gods...! That wouldn't be Heaven, simply.


    Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.
     
    Bloodlines more important than individual qualities of persons.... it is sooo PAGAN. Why the Great King would not sacrifice for his friends, hm...?! Only bloodlines count.

    There are even traces of such thinking - putting stress on bloodlines in Judaism, just because they are bloodlines - so for example after the rebellious Korah is destroyed in earthquake, again and again Bible stresses that "Korahites" did not die out, and it is apparently a reason for celebration, as they are even the subject of several psalms! That it is about their bloodline is clear from the fact that these Korahites are not known for any special good deeds etc, so there is absolutely no other reason to go on about them except their "bloodline".


    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!
     
    That's perfectly OK. It is called justice, which truly can be only on individual basis. Patronage - "because they are my family, friends" etc - is not justice. It is called "nepotism", and the Great King is a NEPOT par excellence.

    If you want something Indian, you better read the true Aryan scripture about Indra, which is Rigveda, not the much later Shiva-centered Mahabharta of the bloodline-devoted pagan natives.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  483. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    I think you'll be extremely surprised by this next decade.

    90% of new political ideas in the West are suggested by progressives, but only 10% succeed in becoming long-term policy. We don't realise this because both progressives and conservatives only focus on progressive successes. A lot of the most harmful stuff goes, but things like gay marriage will stay. Perhaps gay marriage doesn't mean much, except to the gays, but that's the point of legalising it.

    Contra to everyone online, the progressives have lost the vast majority of their battles but, crucially, they forget their losses and quickly move on. Remember "Defund the Police", well police budgets in progressive areas have gone up!

    The West will therefore be fine. When I bet on the competence of people, I usually prefer to bet on form, rather than my own meagre knowledge of the infinite complexity which societies face.

    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example. And genetic engineering will circumvent this problem entirely.

    On the other hand, I've become much more pessimistic on China. I can't believe they had a stringently enforced One Child Policy until just one decade from when their population began to collapse! And I am even dubious of their birth numbers. It is like what they did with COVID. Let it rip on a population that had gone back to naive immunity without any preparation. Bizarre, after 3 years of imprisoning people. Their system is brittle and goes from break to break.

    Europe will also struggle a bit. The quality of immigrants to Europe is low, especially at the highest end. And birth rates are awful, if not East Asian awful. The idea of letting Africa's future surplus 2 billion in is horrifying, but that's exactly why I don't think they will be let in. If governments have so far managed to avoid actually horrifying stuff, I suspect they will continue to be able to. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, Europe settles for being an aging continent in comfortable, secure mediocrity.

    The US on the other hand is extremely strong. I would, were I from there, probably prefer an open country of similar culture, that avoided all sorts of national external greatness, but, realistically, the vast majority of people in the world disagree with me. There are stories of starving Brits during the Empire being ecstatically happy when looking at painted red maps of places they'd never be able to go to. People love these empty postures. We can see it with support on both sides in this war, and some of the manic delusions that went along with it.

    Overall, things will be fine in most places and will improve in most places. Much more than you think.

    Replies: @S

    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example.

    Hmmm…I dunno about that.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @S

    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist - he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc...it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.

    That's one way to deal with it. The West is marketing-driven, this will probably become the go-to choice for many people: we are f..ed...being f..ed is great!...AI! or IA! whatever... They are living in a salesmen society - to sell sh..t one has to be an optimist.

    Replies: @S

  484. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Having recently been in Cambodia, much of whose art is inspired by the Indian epic the Mahabharata, especially in Angkor Wat, I was inspired to begin dabbling a little in that massive tome and reading what others have written about it.

    (As I've said before, Southeast Asia is as much Hindu as it is Buddhist - next time I return I will be much more on the lookout for the Hindu and also the animist elements in that culture, and investigate that fascinating side more. I want to learn more about animism as it is currently lived in Asia especially - not as a dead culture, but as a living, glowing reality.)

    It is a ridiculously huge book, and I don't know if anyone has read it through, but it is also a book of surpassing beauty and inspiration.

    A few scenes towards the end struck me as especially powerful and moving -

    After the Great War that forms the central plot of the book is finished, the five hero brothers, their wife, and one of their dogs, begun climbing the great Himalayan mountains in order to reach one of the great Heavens and there find repose. One by one they fall to their deaths in the high snowy mountains, as their various karmas overtake them, until finally only the Great King and his loyal dog reach the gates of Heaven.

    There he is greeted by the Gods, who tell him he cannot enter with his dog because dogs are unclean and cannot enter heaven. There is no place for them there. But the Great King refuses to enter Heaven then - his dog has been faithful to him, he will be faithful to his dog. The Gods try and persuade him, but he refuses to relent - he will remain faithful to his dog to the end, just as his dog was loyal to him to the end.

    It's a beautiful scene.

    (In the end, it turns out his dog is really an incarnation of a God and this was a final test of his virtue - which he passed :) )

    Indian culture perhaps always had a certain tenderness towards animals that we see illustrated here.

    After entering heaven, the Great King doesn't see his lost brothers and wife who he expected to find - instead, he sees his enemies laughing and feasting. Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.

    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!

    Wendy Doniger has written a book called After the War, about the final chapters of the Mahabharata - to me, the war is the less interesting part of the book simply because how much can you write about battle. I acknowledge the grandeur and power of war epics, and I've enjoyed the Iliad, but I also was always more fascinated by the Odyssey.

    However, I haven't read Donigers book yet so don't know if it's any good, but I'm looking forward.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective

    Although to be fair, the early Christians – real Christianity – would often evince a similar noble compassion towards animals.

    The wonderful and magnificent St Isaac the Syrian has this to say on the salvation of the animals (he’s well worth reading in general) –

    What is a merciful heart? It is a heart on fire for the whole of creation, for humanity, for the birds, for the animals, for demons, (!) and for all that exists. By the recollection of them the eyes of a merciful person pour forth tears in abundance. By the strong and vehement mercy that grips such a person’s heart, and by such great compassion, the heart is humbled and one cannot bear to hear or to see any injury or slight sorrow in any in creation. For this reason, such a person offers up tearful prayer continually even for irrational beasts, for the enemies of the truth, and for those who harm her or him, that they be protected and receive mercy. And in like manner such a person prays for the family of reptiles because of the great compassion that burns without measure in a heart that is in the likeness of God.

    Even the demons deserve our compassion and prayers, even the family of reptiles – this is a Christianity I can get behind 🙂 This is something big and huge and awesome and the opposite of all pettiness and small mindedness.

    Would that Christianity had stayed true to this spirit!

  485. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Not really. The English live on an Island. They are not a continental people. Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols. Even Conan the Barbarian looks like the same plagiarism. here's a loosely fantastic story about Batu Khan destroying Ryazan...The director is riffing off 300 and Jackson's LotR but it's also Historical.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHmSiswINw

    Replies: @AP

    Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols

    Muscovites/Russians are the Slavs who were occupied by the Mongols longest and who became their most faithful servants, learning their ways, intermarrying with them (on the elite level, commoners didn’t do this), and becoming like them (politically), before finally overthrowing them and taking their place.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols. The Reiter formations not withstanding. The Moscovites adopted the idea of heavy firepower on foot.

    Moscow's army of red coated Musketmen wielding Bardiches, at the time of Ivan the Terrible looks nothing like the compound bow, lance pointed pony riding Horde. While the Polish lancers certainly do. And the Ukie Cossacks look outlandish. Here's a Muscovite Streltsy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streltsy#/media/File:Russian_Strieltsy.JPG

    Ivan the Terrible Era Russian Streltsy, compare to a Mongol Lancer in a Qing Illustration...

    https://qr.ae/pr5zKT

    Polish Hussar...


    https://www.griffin-brady.com/research/


    If the Horseback Lancer/Archer was the basic unit of Mongol society it did not translate well to Muscovites later military look and organization, at all, and seems to have found a home among the Ukies with these sorts of outlandish haircuts and baggy pants.

    https://www.realmofhistory.com/2022/06/16/facts-cossacks-don-zaporozhian/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks#/media/File:Fedir_Stovbynenko_-_Kozak-bandyryst_(1890).jpg

    Replies: @AP

  486. @songbird
    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?
    https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY

    Replies: @A123, @S

    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?

    Maybe.

    I just know the talk about shooting the Chinese balloon down over land ‘might get someone hurt by falling debris’ was a bunch of malarky.

    Providing it was indeed a ‘Chinese spy balloon’, by letting it complete it’s mission and shooting it down over the Atlantic is just more evidence, if any was needed, that the ‘Big Guy’ is bought and paid for by various ‘state actors’, ie the Ukrainians probably, and likely the Chinese to a degree as well, and, who knows who else. Hunter’s suppressed laptop is plenty evidence of it.

    The United States has the ability to shoot down hostiles quicksmart, when it wants to, such as the Japanese Fu-go bomb balloons in the clip below being shot down by Aleutian (Alaska) based US fighters in the Spring of 1945.

    I’m just glad I don’t take this kind of stuff as seriously as I once did. 🙂

    • Thanks: songbird
  487. @Greasy William
    If anyone saw Biden's State of the Union tonight, you will understand why so many Americans back Putin's war.

    I. Hate. Liberals. And I am correct to do so.

    So this war is very difficult for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's a battle between my conscience and my deep tribal hatred for white liberals. You pro Ukrainians can say whatever you want but a Ukrainian victory in this war will correctly be seen as a victory for GloboHomo. Just look at the way the US Congress tonight was all decked out in their Ukraine gear. You think that is because they have all suddenly become Ukrainian ultra nationalists? No, it's because they know that this is their war too.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.

    Actually, Ukies (and Poles) would out of politeness and gratitude adopt at least externally the Brussels-Washington cultural symbols - I can see Zelko in a yellow-blue drag marching in a gay parade in Kiev, negro-love to show gratitude, etc...

    But luckily, it has almost no chance of happening...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    , @Greasy William
    @AP


    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.
     
    I actually don't care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.

    But you do bring up a good point: Ukraine in Europe would be another Hungary or Poland. I hadn't thought of things that way before.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

  488. @S
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Which also leads me to be optimistic about the world. Technology makes life simpler for the stupider. Again contra to what most people think. Even a complete moron can do big sums on the calculator on their phone, for example.
     
    Hmmm...I dunno about that.

    https://youtu.be/BdPmNM0IF7Y



    https://youtu.be/2zKDQfVbWqc

    Replies: @Beckow

    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist – he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc…it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.

    That’s one way to deal with it. The West is marketing-driven, this will probably become the go-to choice for many people: we are f..ed…being f..ed is great!…AI! or IA! whatever… They are living in a salesmen society – to sell sh..t one has to be an optimist.

    • Replies: @S
    @Beckow


    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist – he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc…it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.
     
    That's not an unreasonable take.

    From past unfruitful experience I generally will avoid interacting with the suicidal/delusional modern self proclaimed 'progressive' sort. In their earlier incarnations, such as their great public health campaigns regarding clean water, clean food, vaccination/inoculation against disease, literacy promotion, etc, of the early 20th century I would have been one with them.

    Then somewhere in there they adopted the very dangerous path of 'the ends justify the means' to achieve objectives and to take what they want, along with now having this obsessive compulsive thing of trying to force everyone (men, women, children, races, ethnicities, cultures, etc) to be just the same, both physically and spiritually, ie to be 'equal' in the most literal sense of the term, when there are clearly some very real and significant natural differences (some good, some less so) between them.

    The longterm result of ignoring the truth, and not respecting these differences and working within that reality, along with their adoption of the 'ends justify the means' as a way of doing things, is that slowly but surely a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality, and, as this is not a particularly healthy place to be, has resulted in a nihilistic/suicidal, or 'fatalistic' as you put it, outlook towards life.

    In the progs not tolerating constructive criticism, already seeing themselves as 'perfect', they have gone far off course to become what they (at least claimed) to have been fighting all along...ie they are totalitarian, intolerant, extremely violent, warmongers, hatefully obsessed on the subject of race, truly genocidal in wanting to deliberately biologically 'mix away' every race and ethnicity, ideally (from their view) with sub-Saharan Africans. What they accuse others of is in reality most true of themselves...see Joe Biden, for example.

    If this suicidal/self destructive path of the modern progressives wasn't bad enough, they want to take everyone else down with them, in a global apocalyptic mass murder/suicide known as WWIII.

    Jonestown was the unheeded warning.




    https://www.mikerindersblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/jonestown.jpg


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Ryan

    Replies: @Beckow

  489. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Having recently been in Cambodia, much of whose art is inspired by the Indian epic the Mahabharata, especially in Angkor Wat, I was inspired to begin dabbling a little in that massive tome and reading what others have written about it.

    (As I've said before, Southeast Asia is as much Hindu as it is Buddhist - next time I return I will be much more on the lookout for the Hindu and also the animist elements in that culture, and investigate that fascinating side more. I want to learn more about animism as it is currently lived in Asia especially - not as a dead culture, but as a living, glowing reality.)

    It is a ridiculously huge book, and I don't know if anyone has read it through, but it is also a book of surpassing beauty and inspiration.

    A few scenes towards the end struck me as especially powerful and moving -

    After the Great War that forms the central plot of the book is finished, the five hero brothers, their wife, and one of their dogs, begun climbing the great Himalayan mountains in order to reach one of the great Heavens and there find repose. One by one they fall to their deaths in the high snowy mountains, as their various karmas overtake them, until finally only the Great King and his loyal dog reach the gates of Heaven.

    There he is greeted by the Gods, who tell him he cannot enter with his dog because dogs are unclean and cannot enter heaven. There is no place for them there. But the Great King refuses to enter Heaven then - his dog has been faithful to him, he will be faithful to his dog. The Gods try and persuade him, but he refuses to relent - he will remain faithful to his dog to the end, just as his dog was loyal to him to the end.

    It's a beautiful scene.

    (In the end, it turns out his dog is really an incarnation of a God and this was a final test of his virtue - which he passed :) )

    Indian culture perhaps always had a certain tenderness towards animals that we see illustrated here.

    After entering heaven, the Great King doesn't see his lost brothers and wife who he expected to find - instead, he sees his enemies laughing and feasting. Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.

    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!

    Wendy Doniger has written a book called After the War, about the final chapters of the Mahabharata - to me, the war is the less interesting part of the book simply because how much can you write about battle. I acknowledge the grandeur and power of war epics, and I've enjoyed the Iliad, but I also was always more fascinated by the Odyssey.

    However, I haven't read Donigers book yet so don't know if it's any good, but I'm looking forward.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective

    As a person who kind of dislikes dogs (as a child I was especially scared of them, they jumped upon me on the street several times), I would tend to agree with the opinion that dogs are “unclean”. Unless you are a born extrovert, dogs will bring mainly chaos and their out of place, irritating, jumpy happiness to your home… dogs do not know what solemnity or melancholy mean… Imagine Heaven, where dogs would be happily jumping upon gods…! That wouldn’t be Heaven, simply.

    Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.

    Bloodlines more important than individual qualities of persons…. it is sooo PAGAN. Why the Great King would not sacrifice for his friends, hm…?! Only bloodlines count.

    There are even traces of such thinking – putting stress on bloodlines in Judaism, just because they are bloodlines – so for example after the rebellious Korah is destroyed in earthquake, again and again Bible stresses that “Korahites” did not die out, and it is apparently a reason for celebration, as they are even the subject of several psalms! That it is about their bloodline is clear from the fact that these Korahites are not known for any special good deeds etc, so there is absolutely no other reason to go on about them except their “bloodline”.

    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!

    That’s perfectly OK. It is called justice, which truly can be only on individual basis. Patronage – “because they are my family, friends” etc – is not justice. It is called “nepotism”, and the Great King is a NEPOT par excellence.

    If you want something Indian, you better read the true Aryan scripture about Indra, which is Rigveda, not the much later Shiva-centered Mahabharta of the bloodline-devoted pagan natives.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Don't like dogs? I can see we have much spiritual work to be done with you, APP :) It's okay, I will be here till you see the light.

    You've never seen a melancholy or solemn dog? I certainly have - dogs have moods just like us, and many are wise and solemn in old age, while wonderfully retaining their capacity for innocent joy and wonder.

    People who believe that "justice" trumps compassion and mercy are of course not Christian, but also non-Buddhist, etc. Especially since sinners are people whose minds are clouded - every rational being in full possession of his faculties prefers the Good. That's what it means to be rational.

    In the words of St Isaac the Syrian "Jesus did not come to requite evil, but to right evil". I wonder if the same witty play on words is in the original :)

    But more than that, you lack a moral sense, a sense of compassion - I hope you learn to develop one.

    Now, in the spirit of St Isaac I shall shed bountiful tears for you as, in his words, an "enemy of the truth" - and pray for you, APP.

  490. @AP
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William

    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.

    Actually, Ukies (and Poles) would out of politeness and gratitude adopt at least externally the Brussels-Washington cultural symbols – I can see Zelko in a yellow-blue drag marching in a gay parade in Kiev, negro-love to show gratitude, etc…

    But luckily, it has almost no chance of happening…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.
     
    What's not to like? Both Ukraine and the US would end up getting what they want out of this war. Ukraine has little time to try and manage the leftist cultural agenda within the US, as it is too busy trying to get weaponry in a more timely manner. As long as the West keeps on arming Ukraine, it will do enough to remain a sovereign state. And after all, are one or two gay parades too much to ask in return for your country's sovereignty? I see that Slovakia has had these gay parades from at least 2012, and has somehow remained functional. Or have you left for Donbas or some other new haven that more suits your moralistic views of living arrangements? Mariupol, perhaps?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/DuhovyPrideBratislava2012Pochod1.JPG/800px-DuhovyPrideBratislava2012Pochod1.JPG
    Gay rights parade Bratislave 2012. No gay parades in Mariupol (thank you Putler!).

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming
     
    The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating. So?

    What a typically stupid argument. All sorts of communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat. So should he not have been resisted by decent people also? We know your people’s approach, of course.

    I don’t know when and how, but when it is over, very few of today’s mad-world-liberals will own up to this silly circus…just like our Unz resident Kiev fire-eaters (AP? Mr. Hacks?) they will scuttle away not to be heard from again…
     
    As a natural lackey and servant you can’t imagine that someone would support or be proud of defending one’s nation’s independence even if doing so results in failure. Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939, Serbs aren’t ashamed of losing their hopeless war against the Turks at that famous battle. But you would be, you see those losses as failed opportunities to join up with and be the invaders’ faithful lackey. As your Slovakia was Hitler’s loyal servant during World War II.

    And before you twist the meaning of my comment - no, I am neither predicting nor expecting Ukraine’s defeat. I still think it will likely end up being a stalemate roughly along current lines (Russia may even eventually take Bakhmut, and 6 months later perhaps Kramatorsk), albeit with a real possibility of Ukraine taking back the Crimean corridor.

    You might have to spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost (though most will be retained). But the majority of Ukraine will stay free, will be completely de-Russified, and will join its Polish brothers. It will be lost to Russia forever.

    Replies: @Beckow

  491. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    As a person who kind of dislikes dogs (as a child I was especially scared of them, they jumped upon me on the street several times), I would tend to agree with the opinion that dogs are "unclean". Unless you are a born extrovert, dogs will bring mainly chaos and their out of place, irritating, jumpy happiness to your home... dogs do not know what solemnity or melancholy mean... Imagine Heaven, where dogs would be happily jumping upon gods...! That wouldn't be Heaven, simply.


    Asking where his beloved relatives are, he is told they are actually in Hell! Whereupon he says in that case he has no desire to remain in Heaven but will go and stay with his loved ones in Hell. He has no interest in a Heaven that does not contain his loved ones and would rather suffer together with them in Hell.
     
    Bloodlines more important than individual qualities of persons.... it is sooo PAGAN. Why the Great King would not sacrifice for his friends, hm...?! Only bloodlines count.

    There are even traces of such thinking - putting stress on bloodlines in Judaism, just because they are bloodlines - so for example after the rebellious Korah is destroyed in earthquake, again and again Bible stresses that "Korahites" did not die out, and it is apparently a reason for celebration, as they are even the subject of several psalms! That it is about their bloodline is clear from the fact that these Korahites are not known for any special good deeds etc, so there is absolutely no other reason to go on about them except their "bloodline".


    How different this is from the Thomist conception that we can sit comfortably in heaven while some of our friends and family and suffer eternal damnation in hell!
     
    That's perfectly OK. It is called justice, which truly can be only on individual basis. Patronage - "because they are my family, friends" etc - is not justice. It is called "nepotism", and the Great King is a NEPOT par excellence.

    If you want something Indian, you better read the true Aryan scripture about Indra, which is Rigveda, not the much later Shiva-centered Mahabharta of the bloodline-devoted pagan natives.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Don’t like dogs? I can see we have much spiritual work to be done with you, APP 🙂 It’s okay, I will be here till you see the light.

    You’ve never seen a melancholy or solemn dog? I certainly have – dogs have moods just like us, and many are wise and solemn in old age, while wonderfully retaining their capacity for innocent joy and wonder.

    People who believe that “justice” trumps compassion and mercy are of course not Christian, but also non-Buddhist, etc. Especially since sinners are people whose minds are clouded – every rational being in full possession of his faculties prefers the Good. That’s what it means to be rational.

    In the words of St Isaac the Syrian “Jesus did not come to requite evil, but to right evil”. I wonder if the same witty play on words is in the original 🙂

    But more than that, you lack a moral sense, a sense of compassion – I hope you learn to develop one.

    Now, in the spirit of St Isaac I shall shed bountiful tears for you as, in his words, an “enemy of the truth” – and pray for you, APP.

  492. @AP
    @Wokechoke


    Mordor resembles Karakorum or perhaps Sarai. He just cadged the basic story from the conflicts between the Slavs and Mongols
     
    Muscovites/Russians are the Slavs who were occupied by the Mongols longest and who became their most faithful servants, learning their ways, intermarrying with them (on the elite level, commoners didn’t do this), and becoming like them (politically), before finally overthrowing them and taking their place.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols. The Reiter formations not withstanding. The Moscovites adopted the idea of heavy firepower on foot.

    Moscow’s army of red coated Musketmen wielding Bardiches, at the time of Ivan the Terrible looks nothing like the compound bow, lance pointed pony riding Horde. While the Polish lancers certainly do. And the Ukie Cossacks look outlandish. Here’s a Muscovite Streltsy.

    Ivan the Terrible Era Russian Streltsy, compare to a Mongol Lancer in a Qing Illustration…

    https://qr.ae/pr5zKT

    Polish Hussar…

    https://www.griffin-brady.com/research/

    If the Horseback Lancer/Archer was the basic unit of Mongol society it did not translate well to Muscovites later military look and organization, at all, and seems to have found a home among the Ukies with these sorts of outlandish haircuts and baggy pants.

    https://www.realmofhistory.com/2022/06/16/facts-cossacks-don-zaporozhian/

    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke


    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols
     
    They were rather aping the heavy cavalry of the ancient Sarmatians from whom they claimed ancestry.

    And Muscovites also heavily used cavalry:

    https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/05/21/lessons_in_warfare_learnt_from_the_golden_horde_35375

    The Russian historian Vernadsky describes the Mongol and Tatar influence upon Russian political culture:

    Under Mongol occupation…Muscovy developed its mestnichestvo hierarchy, postal road network (based on Mongolian ortoo system, known in Russian as "yam", hence the terms yamshchik, Yamskoy Prikaz, etc.), census, fiscal system and military organization.

    The period of Mongol rule over the former Rus' polities included significant cultural and interpersonal contacts between the Slavic and Mongolian ruling classes. By 1450, the Tatar language had become fashionable in the court of the Grand Prince of Moscow, Vasily II, who was accused of excessive love of the Tatars and their speech, and many Russian noblemen adopted Tatar surnames (for example, a member of the Veliamanov family adopted the Turkic name "Aksak" and his descendants were the Aksakovs).[22]

    Many Russian boyar (noble) families traced their descent from the Mongols or Tatars, including Veliaminov-Zernov, Godunov, Arseniev, Bakhmetev, Bulgakov (descendants of Bulgak) and Chaadaev (descendants of Genghis Khan's son Chagatai Khan). In a survey of Russian noble families of the 17th century, over 15% of the Russian noble families had Tatar or Oriental origins.[23]

    The Mongols brought about changes in the economic power of states and overall trade. In the religious sphere, St. Paphnutius of Borovsk was the grandson of a Mongol baskak, or tax collector, while a nephew of Khan Bergai of the Golden Horde converted to Christianity and became known as the monk St. Peter Tsarevich of the Horde.[24]

    In the judicial sphere, under Mongol influence capital punishment, which during the times of Kievan Rus' had only been applied to slaves, became widespread, and the use of torture became a regular part of criminal procedure. Specific punishments introduced in Moscow included beheading for alleged traitors and branding of thieves (with execution for a third arrest

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  493. @A123
    @Mikhail

    Read the full article. (1)


    Discussing how Western leaders felt about his mediation efforts, Bennett said then-British Prime Minister Boris Johnson took an “aggressive line” while French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz were more “pragmatic.” Bennett said President Biden adopted “both” positions.

    But ultimately, the Western leaders opposed Bennet’s efforts. “I’ll say this in the broad sense. I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking Putin and not [negotiate],” Bennett said.
     

    America mentioned last.

    Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine didn’t stop with Bennett’s efforts. Later in March, Russian and Ukrainian officials met in Istanbul, Turkey, and followed up with virtual consultations. According to the account of former US officials speaking to Foreign Affairs, the two sides agreed on the framework for a tentative deal. Russian officials, including Putin, have said publicly that a deal was close following the Istanbul talks.
     
    America mentioned in conjunction with progress being made.

    Boris Johnson visited Kyiv in April 2022, urging Zelensky not to negotiate with Russia. According to a report from Ukrainska Pravda, he said even if Ukraine was ready to sign a deal with Russia, Kyiv’s Western backers were not.
     
    America not mentioned as things back slide.
    ___

    The analysis is quite straightforward.

    Q: Did Europe screw up a potential Russia/Ukraine deal?

    A: It is highly probable that the European Empire acted maliciously. The U.S. was at best a junior player carrying the load for European national leaders.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/former-israeli-pm-bennett-says-us-blocked-his-attempts-russia-ukraine-peace-deal

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    A: It is highly probable that the European Empire acted maliciously. The U.S. was at best a junior player carrying the load for European national leaders.

    So now, Boris Johnson, who at that time was a leader of Great Britain, that had ceded from the EU, was Brussels spokesperson on foreign relations to Ukraine? Is he also a muslim by your estimations too? Your conspiracy theories are getting kookier and kookier all of the time. You should be writing novels, comic books at least. 🙂

  494. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols. The Reiter formations not withstanding. The Moscovites adopted the idea of heavy firepower on foot.

    Moscow's army of red coated Musketmen wielding Bardiches, at the time of Ivan the Terrible looks nothing like the compound bow, lance pointed pony riding Horde. While the Polish lancers certainly do. And the Ukie Cossacks look outlandish. Here's a Muscovite Streltsy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streltsy#/media/File:Russian_Strieltsy.JPG

    Ivan the Terrible Era Russian Streltsy, compare to a Mongol Lancer in a Qing Illustration...

    https://qr.ae/pr5zKT

    Polish Hussar...


    https://www.griffin-brady.com/research/


    If the Horseback Lancer/Archer was the basic unit of Mongol society it did not translate well to Muscovites later military look and organization, at all, and seems to have found a home among the Ukies with these sorts of outlandish haircuts and baggy pants.

    https://www.realmofhistory.com/2022/06/16/facts-cossacks-don-zaporozhian/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks#/media/File:Fedir_Stovbynenko_-_Kozak-bandyryst_(1890).jpg

    Replies: @AP

    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols

    They were rather aping the heavy cavalry of the ancient Sarmatians from whom they claimed ancestry.

    And Muscovites also heavily used cavalry:

    https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/05/21/lessons_in_warfare_learnt_from_the_golden_horde_35375

    The Russian historian Vernadsky describes the Mongol and Tatar influence upon Russian political culture:

    Under Mongol occupation…Muscovy developed its mestnichestvo hierarchy, postal road network (based on Mongolian ortoo system, known in Russian as “yam”, hence the terms yamshchik, Yamskoy Prikaz, etc.), census, fiscal system and military organization.

    [MORE]

    The period of Mongol rule over the former Rus’ polities included significant cultural and interpersonal contacts between the Slavic and Mongolian ruling classes. By 1450, the Tatar language had become fashionable in the court of the Grand Prince of Moscow, Vasily II, who was accused of excessive love of the Tatars and their speech, and many Russian noblemen adopted Tatar surnames (for example, a member of the Veliamanov family adopted the Turkic name “Aksak” and his descendants were the Aksakovs).[22]

    Many Russian boyar (noble) families traced their descent from the Mongols or Tatars, including Veliaminov-Zernov, Godunov, Arseniev, Bakhmetev, Bulgakov (descendants of Bulgak) and Chaadaev (descendants of Genghis Khan’s son Chagatai Khan). In a survey of Russian noble families of the 17th century, over 15% of the Russian noble families had Tatar or Oriental origins.[23]

    The Mongols brought about changes in the economic power of states and overall trade. In the religious sphere, St. Paphnutius of Borovsk was the grandson of a Mongol baskak, or tax collector, while a nephew of Khan Bergai of the Golden Horde converted to Christianity and became known as the monk St. Peter Tsarevich of the Horde.[24]

    In the judicial sphere, under Mongol influence capital punishment, which during the times of Kievan Rus’ had only been applied to slaves, became widespread, and the use of torture became a regular part of criminal procedure. Specific punishments introduced in Moscow included beheading for alleged traitors and branding of thieves (with execution for a third arrest

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Mongol law looks mild in comparison to the medieval English.

    Anyway,

    The Muscovites outsourced the cavalry to the Tartars. Russian cavalry tended to mean Ukies or Turkic
    auxiliaries.


    The English could ride horses but mostly fought on foot. Even the Normans couldn't get them to fight like Normans, nor later on like the French aristocrats and their Gendarmes when typically English knights dismounted.


    Russians have always been plodding footsloggers as far as I can see.

  495. @Beckow
    @AP

    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.

    Actually, Ukies (and Poles) would out of politeness and gratitude adopt at least externally the Brussels-Washington cultural symbols - I can see Zelko in a yellow-blue drag marching in a gay parade in Kiev, negro-love to show gratitude, etc...

    But luckily, it has almost no chance of happening...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.

    What’s not to like? Both Ukraine and the US would end up getting what they want out of this war. Ukraine has little time to try and manage the leftist cultural agenda within the US, as it is too busy trying to get weaponry in a more timely manner. As long as the West keeps on arming Ukraine, it will do enough to remain a sovereign state. And after all, are one or two gay parades too much to ask in return for your country’s sovereignty? I see that Slovakia has had these gay parades from at least 2012, and has somehow remained functional. Or have you left for Donbas or some other new haven that more suits your moralistic views of living arrangements? Mariupol, perhaps?
    Gay rights parade Bratislave 2012. No gay parades in Mariupol (thank you Putler!).

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    I am not sure you want to pointing to a few hundred people assembled in some boondock suburb of Bratislava - not exactly an endorsement. Look up the tens of thousands who show up for regular "family" marches. It is not even close.


    What’s not to like?
     
    Well, to each his own, if you like to march, more power to you. But I think some of the relatives of the tens of thousand Ukie dead will be disappointed if the big winner after the war will be Zelko in drag leading a bunch of rainbow-internationalists in a rap song, waving Floyd's ugly mug shot picture...

    Come on, admit that losing would be better - they would sing Internacionale, wear suits and camouflage, wave fists, women would be pretty, coy and without metal stuff hanging from their noses...I may even show up.

    This is at its core a cultural fight where the rainbow wimps found (or bought) some tough Ukies to fight in their corner. Somebody should tell the misguided fools what they are dying for: Nato, a right to a MLK holiday, and LGBTQ-free-for-all. Maybe they would still fight, but at least they would probably change the slogans...whatever the paymasters want, right?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  496. @Beckow
    @AP

    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.

    Actually, Ukies (and Poles) would out of politeness and gratitude adopt at least externally the Brussels-Washington cultural symbols - I can see Zelko in a yellow-blue drag marching in a gay parade in Kiev, negro-love to show gratitude, etc...

    But luckily, it has almost no chance of happening...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming

    The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating. So?

    What a typically stupid argument. All sorts of communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat. So should he not have been resisted by decent people also? We know your people’s approach, of course.

    I don’t know when and how, but when it is over, very few of today’s mad-world-liberals will own up to this silly circus…just like our Unz resident Kiev fire-eaters (AP? Mr. Hacks?) they will scuttle away not to be heard from again…

    As a natural lackey and servant you can’t imagine that someone would support or be proud of defending one’s nation’s independence even if doing so results in failure. Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939, Serbs aren’t ashamed of losing their hopeless war against the Turks at that famous battle. But you would be, you see those losses as failed opportunities to join up with and be the invaders’ faithful lackey. As your Slovakia was Hitler’s loyal servant during World War II.

    And before you twist the meaning of my comment – no, I am neither predicting nor expecting Ukraine’s defeat. I still think it will likely end up being a stalemate roughly along current lines (Russia may even eventually take Bakhmut, and 6 months later perhaps Kramatorsk), albeit with a real possibility of Ukraine taking back the Crimean corridor.

    You might have to spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost (though most will be retained). But the majority of Ukraine will stay free, will be completely de-Russified, and will join its Polish brothers. It will be lost to Russia forever.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating
     
    It would be buried in an avalanche of rainbows...

    communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat
     
    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down, almost by themselves, of course they celebrated. You are either a Nazi or so badly educated that you think Normandy June 1944!!! won the war. You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it...you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles :)...

    And you talk about falsifying history and propaganda...the precious infantilism of the Western retards...


    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939...Serbs...
     
    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans, so this is not really about shame. They got clobbered because they chose badly - offered to Nazis to attack Russia together, joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia, waited for the saintly Anglos to save them. Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks and proceeded to murder millions of Poles. Of course, Poles can't remember that - too politically inconvenient - and are working on convincing the world that it was all Russia's fault. Go figure, they may get clobbered again with this level of historical stupidity

    The Serbs are probably more concerned with the more recent Nato bombing ("shock-and-awe" in the middle of Europe) than with medieval history. But that is another event you prefer to lie about.


    ....spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost...
     
    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure - it is generally considered a defeat. Maybe a small defeat, or medium, but still a defeat. I am still waiting for a scenario that could be considered a Ukie win - taking back Crimean corridor and Azov would count - is it going to happen?

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony? Get real, people don't care for your blood-soaked myths, it will be quickly forgotten, failed heroism is rather awkward to celebrate...where is the win that you are hoping for?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

  497. AP says:
    @Greasy William
    If anyone saw Biden's State of the Union tonight, you will understand why so many Americans back Putin's war.

    I. Hate. Liberals. And I am correct to do so.

    So this war is very difficult for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's a battle between my conscience and my deep tribal hatred for white liberals. You pro Ukrainians can say whatever you want but a Ukrainian victory in this war will correctly be seen as a victory for GloboHomo. Just look at the way the US Congress tonight was all decked out in their Ukraine gear. You think that is because they have all suddenly become Ukrainian ultra nationalists? No, it's because they know that this is their war too.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Emil Nikola Richard

    There is a great Op-Ed by young Republican Senator Tom Cotton and architect of Trump’s attempted immigration reform, regarding Ukraine in the WSJ today.

    It highlights how Biden’s weakness and lukewarm support for Ukraine (especially before the war) have helped Putin:

    The American Case for Supporting Ukraine

    The U.S. can back its allies and send a message to the Chinese, without sparking a wider war in Europe

    After years of observing Russian leaders up close during World War II, Winston Churchill remarked that “there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness.” Churchill therefore warned against “offering temptations to a trial of strength.”

    Unfortunately, that’s exactly what President Biden did in his first year in office, tempting Vladimir Putin to pursue his long-standing ambition to reassemble the Russian Empire by conquering Ukraine. Having failed to deter the war, Mr. Biden’s timid approach has now prolonged it.

    [MORE]

    Thanks to his failures, some Americans wonder whether we should continue to support Ukraine. But cutting off Ukraine wouldn’t end the war. It would only increase the chances of a Russian victory and harm our interests in deterring wider wars in Europe and Asia.

    Mr. Biden appeased Russia from the start, from a no-conditions extension of a one-sided nuclear-arms treaty, to the waiving of sanctions on Russia’s Nord Stream 2 pipeline, to freezing an arms shipment to Ukraine. Then came the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan. This humiliating failure telegraphed weakness and incompetence, and Russia soon massed an invasion force along Ukraine’s border.

    Mr. Biden responded by hinting at disunity in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and suggesting he might tolerate a “minor incursion” by Russia into Ukraine. Convinced of his strength and his enemies’ weakness, Mr. Putin went for the jugular.

    The Ukrainians stood their ground and fought. Yet Mr. Biden has dragged his feet all along, hesitating fearfully to send the Ukrainians the weapons and intelligence they need to win. Today, Mr. Biden stubbornly refuses to provide fighter jets, cluster munitions and long-range missiles to Ukraine. As a result of Mr. Biden’s half-measures, Ukraine has only half-succeeded.

    We should back Ukraine to the hilt, because the likeliest alternative isn’t peace, but rather another “frozen conflict” that favors Russia and harms our interests. Russia would retain key strategic terrain and much of Ukraine’s industry and agriculture. Food and energy prices would remain high, potentially starving many nations and exacerbating the migrant crisis in the West.

    Meanwhile, Russia could rebuild its strength and seize the rest of Ukraine when the opportunity arises. Such an outcome would create millions more Ukrainian refugees, drive inflation higher and worsen supply-chain disruptions. Russia would also extend its border deep into Europe. Next on the chopping block could be Moldova, site of another frozen conflict. And after that, a NATO nation.

    Stopping Russia also will allow the U.S. to focus on the greater threat from China. A Russian victory would force us to divert more resources for a longer time to Europe to deter Russian expansionism, creating persistent threats on both fronts. But a Ukrainian victory and a durable peace will secure our European flank as we confront China.

    The Chinese dictator, Xi Jinping, is closely watching the war in Ukraine. If the West falters, he will conclude that we will never fight to protect Taiwan. In the 1930s, the West tempted the Axis powers by appeasing naked aggression against small countries like Ethiopia and Czechoslovakia. Some Western politicians may have forgotten the lessons of history, but Mr. Xi hasn’t.

    Our support for Ukraine can also save American money and lives in the long run. A sizable portion of our outlays will be spent on replacing the older weapons and materiel we’ve sent to Ukraine with newer equipment for our troops. Along with lessons learned from the Ukrainian battlefield, our military can emerge better equipped, trained and prepared to defeat our adversaries.

    War is always expensive, but we must measure the current costs against the greater potential cost of wider war in Europe or Asia. The Ukrainians are fighting their own war, with no American troops engaged in direct combat—which won’t be the case if irresolution in Ukraine tempts our enemies to attack a NATO ally or Taiwan. Had the West retaliated when Germany remilitarized the Rhineland in 1936, that small operation might’ve seemed expensive and risky at the time, but it likely would’ve prevented world war.

    History also shows that we can oppose Russian aggression without sparking a wider war. We fought proxy wars against Soviet Russia across the world in the last century. We armed insurgents during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Russians not only armed our enemies in Korea and Vietnam, but also took part in the fighting, shooting down American pilots. These proxy wars were more provocative than anything we’ve done to support Ukraine. In no case did they lead to war between our two countries.

    Of course, we must also demand that our allies do their fair share. Hardy nations like the United Kingdom, Poland, and the Baltic states have carried their share of the load, but wealthy laggards such as France and especially Germany must do more. As ever, though, we can’t allow European weakness to constrain American action.

    The Ukrainian people are fighting with spirit and resolve, exercising what Churchill called “the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in.” Their cause is sympathetic, but the world is a dangerous place and America shouldn’t act out of sympathy alone. We act to protect our vital national interests. That’s the case in Ukraine, and we deserve a strategy of victory to match.

    Mr. Cotton, a Republican, is a U.S. senator from Arkansas.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    It's a shame that it wasn't Senator Tom Cotton, rather than Sarah Huckabee Sanders that gave the Republican response to Biden's state of the Union speech last night, both being from Arkansas. Her speech, unfortunately sounded like a bunch of self serving soundbites about herself. A least she didn't bring up the war in Ukraine (if she did, I was probably napping).

  498. How the Judeo-Hibernians took out Nord Stream.

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    Does read like Hersh, probably the only place he can publish.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @LondonBob


    How the Judeo-Hibernians took out Nord Stream.
     
    Everyone with two neurons to rub together knew from the start that this terror act was perpetrated by the US. The only new thing here is that Norwegians pulled the trigger. Maybe, maybe not. The empire has many vassals in the vicinity to do that little part of the job.
  499. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    I tend to see the story he wrote as barely concealed fantasy based on other’s history.
     
    As better phrasing:

    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people's history.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people’s history.

    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?
     
    What a strange question. Can one read tripe? Are you suggesting some new form of braille? Very odd.

    No. I have never read tripe.

     
    https://fthmb.tqn.com/HQj6Whjl8E0jg06R7QVnaBOkSE8=/960x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/tripe-56a8a78d3df78cf7729f6efd.jpg
     

    As a literate & cultured adult, I have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit multiple times.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  500. @Beckow
    @S

    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist - he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc...it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.

    That's one way to deal with it. The West is marketing-driven, this will probably become the go-to choice for many people: we are f..ed...being f..ed is great!...AI! or IA! whatever... They are living in a salesmen society - to sell sh..t one has to be an optimist.

    Replies: @S

    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist – he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc…it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.

    That’s not an unreasonable take.

    From past unfruitful experience I generally will avoid interacting with the suicidal/delusional modern self proclaimed ‘progressive’ sort. In their earlier incarnations, such as their great public health campaigns regarding clean water, clean food, vaccination/inoculation against disease, literacy promotion, etc, of the early 20th century I would have been one with them.

    Then somewhere in there they adopted the very dangerous path of ‘the ends justify the means’ to achieve objectives and to take what they want, along with now having this obsessive compulsive thing of trying to force everyone (men, women, children, races, ethnicities, cultures, etc) to be just the same, both physically and spiritually, ie to be ‘equal’ in the most literal sense of the term, when there are clearly some very real and significant natural differences (some good, some less so) between them.

    The longterm result of ignoring the truth, and not respecting these differences and working within that reality, along with their adoption of the ‘ends justify the means’ as a way of doing things, is that slowly but surely a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality, and, as this is not a particularly healthy place to be, has resulted in a nihilistic/suicidal, or ‘fatalistic’ as you put it, outlook towards life.

    In the progs not tolerating constructive criticism, already seeing themselves as ‘perfect’, they have gone far off course to become what they (at least claimed) to have been fighting all along…ie they are totalitarian, intolerant, extremely violent, warmongers, hatefully obsessed on the subject of race, truly genocidal in wanting to deliberately biologically ‘mix away’ every race and ethnicity, ideally (from their view) with sub-Saharan Africans. What they accuse others of is in reality most true of themselves…see Joe Biden, for example.

    If this suicidal/self destructive path of the modern progressives wasn’t bad enough, they want to take everyone else down with them, in a global apocalyptic mass murder/suicide known as WWIII.

    Jonestown was the unheeded warning.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @S


    ...a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality
     
    That's the core problem today. Prog-libs can't accept reality so they gradually move away from it - or like our Leave no Shadow optimist, they fatalistically embrace it, paint it rosy, probably thinking that if they sell it with upbeat verbiage and promises of miracles, they will get a few more years. Biden seems very much from that 'damn it, I just need a few more good years, so shut up!!!' school of liberalism.

    I would also point out that a lot of the current progressive collapse into complete idiocy has to do with their basic incompetence and laziness: clean water and air require lots of work - blabbing about "climate change" almost none. Good working and living conditions also require actual hard work - preaching about equity requires nothing. What came first, the idiocy of by-any-means-necessary fanatics or their laziness I can't always tell - they seem to go together.

    I am still not convinced that they will blow it up in a global apocalypse. It is increasingly possible, but we need a few more escalations - e.g. the dumb Poles marching into Galicia (or Belarus). If it happens, we need to remember that the "end" of turning Ukraine into an armed Nato camp against Russia was worth the "means"...the progressives will glow in the dark and be happy...the satanic Russians will also perish (AP will call it a "win" as he turns into hot air).

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

  501. @AP
    @Greasy William

    There is a great Op-Ed by young Republican Senator Tom Cotton and architect of Trump’s attempted immigration reform, regarding Ukraine in the WSJ today.

    It highlights how Biden’s weakness and lukewarm support for Ukraine (especially before the war) have helped Putin:

    The American Case for Supporting Ukraine

    The U.S. can back its allies and send a message to the Chinese, without sparking a wider war in Europe

    After years of observing Russian leaders up close during World War II, Winston Churchill remarked that “there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness.” Churchill therefore warned against “offering temptations to a trial of strength.”

    Unfortunately, that’s exactly what President Biden did in his first year in office, tempting Vladimir Putin to pursue his long-standing ambition to reassemble the Russian Empire by conquering Ukraine. Having failed to deter the war, Mr. Biden’s timid approach has now prolonged it.



    Thanks to his failures, some Americans wonder whether we should continue to support Ukraine. But cutting off Ukraine wouldn’t end the war. It would only increase the chances of a Russian victory and harm our interests in deterring wider wars in Europe and Asia.

    Mr. Biden appeased Russia from the start, from a no-conditions extension of a one-sided nuclear-arms treaty, to the waiving of sanctions on Russia’s Nord Stream 2 pipeline, to freezing an arms shipment to Ukraine. Then came the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan. This humiliating failure telegraphed weakness and incompetence, and Russia soon massed an invasion force along Ukraine’s border.

    Mr. Biden responded by hinting at disunity in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and suggesting he might tolerate a “minor incursion” by Russia into Ukraine. Convinced of his strength and his enemies’ weakness, Mr. Putin went for the jugular.

    The Ukrainians stood their ground and fought. Yet Mr. Biden has dragged his feet all along, hesitating fearfully to send the Ukrainians the weapons and intelligence they need to win. Today, Mr. Biden stubbornly refuses to provide fighter jets, cluster munitions and long-range missiles to Ukraine. As a result of Mr. Biden’s half-measures, Ukraine has only half-succeeded.

    We should back Ukraine to the hilt, because the likeliest alternative isn’t peace, but rather another “frozen conflict” that favors Russia and harms our interests. Russia would retain key strategic terrain and much of Ukraine’s industry and agriculture. Food and energy prices would remain high, potentially starving many nations and exacerbating the migrant crisis in the West.

    Meanwhile, Russia could rebuild its strength and seize the rest of Ukraine when the opportunity arises. Such an outcome would create millions more Ukrainian refugees, drive inflation higher and worsen supply-chain disruptions. Russia would also extend its border deep into Europe. Next on the chopping block could be Moldova, site of another frozen conflict. And after that, a NATO nation.

    Stopping Russia also will allow the U.S. to focus on the greater threat from China. A Russian victory would force us to divert more resources for a longer time to Europe to deter Russian expansionism, creating persistent threats on both fronts. But a Ukrainian victory and a durable peace will secure our European flank as we confront China.

    The Chinese dictator, Xi Jinping, is closely watching the war in Ukraine. If the West falters, he will conclude that we will never fight to protect Taiwan. In the 1930s, the West tempted the Axis powers by appeasing naked aggression against small countries like Ethiopia and Czechoslovakia. Some Western politicians may have forgotten the lessons of history, but Mr. Xi hasn’t.

    Our support for Ukraine can also save American money and lives in the long run. A sizable portion of our outlays will be spent on replacing the older weapons and materiel we’ve sent to Ukraine with newer equipment for our troops. Along with lessons learned from the Ukrainian battlefield, our military can emerge better equipped, trained and prepared to defeat our adversaries.

    War is always expensive, but we must measure the current costs against the greater potential cost of wider war in Europe or Asia. The Ukrainians are fighting their own war, with no American troops engaged in direct combat—which won’t be the case if irresolution in Ukraine tempts our enemies to attack a NATO ally or Taiwan. Had the West retaliated when Germany remilitarized the Rhineland in 1936, that small operation might’ve seemed expensive and risky at the time, but it likely would’ve prevented world war.

    History also shows that we can oppose Russian aggression without sparking a wider war. We fought proxy wars against Soviet Russia across the world in the last century. We armed insurgents during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Russians not only armed our enemies in Korea and Vietnam, but also took part in the fighting, shooting down American pilots. These proxy wars were more provocative than anything we’ve done to support Ukraine. In no case did they lead to war between our two countries.

    Of course, we must also demand that our allies do their fair share. Hardy nations like the United Kingdom, Poland, and the Baltic states have carried their share of the load, but wealthy laggards such as France and especially Germany must do more. As ever, though, we can’t allow European weakness to constrain American action.

    The Ukrainian people are fighting with spirit and resolve, exercising what Churchill called “the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in.” Their cause is sympathetic, but the world is a dangerous place and America shouldn’t act out of sympathy alone. We act to protect our vital national interests. That’s the case in Ukraine, and we deserve a strategy of victory to match.

    Mr. Cotton, a Republican, is a U.S. senator from Arkansas.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    It’s a shame that it wasn’t Senator Tom Cotton, rather than Sarah Huckabee Sanders that gave the Republican response to Biden’s state of the Union speech last night, both being from Arkansas. Her speech, unfortunately sounded like a bunch of self serving soundbites about herself. A least she didn’t bring up the war in Ukraine (if she did, I was probably napping).

    • Agree: AP
  502. @Greasy William
    If anyone saw Biden's State of the Union tonight, you will understand why so many Americans back Putin's war.

    I. Hate. Liberals. And I am correct to do so.

    So this war is very difficult for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's a battle between my conscience and my deep tribal hatred for white liberals. You pro Ukrainians can say whatever you want but a Ukrainian victory in this war will correctly be seen as a victory for GloboHomo. Just look at the way the US Congress tonight was all decked out in their Ukraine gear. You think that is because they have all suddenly become Ukrainian ultra nationalists? No, it's because they know that this is their war too.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I looked at a couple of recaps for a minute.

    For the first time in years Naked Capitalism did not have a live coverage comment thread which has become my most favorite.

    That asshole Bono was there.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/07/bono-state-union-joe-jill-biden-guests/11207250002/

    Isn’t that guy on the unredacted Epstein plane passenger lists like a dozen times? It’s too much trouble to keep a pristine account with the child rapists. Or statutory teenager rapists. Whatever.

  503. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    This is the most ludicrous motre & bailey I've ever seen. First, conspiracy is literally everything. Then the fact that literally everything fits your definition of conspiracy is proof of your extraordinary and Byzantine claims.

    Replies: @songbird

    Then the fact that literally everything fits your definition of conspiracy is proof of your extraordinary and Byzantine claims.

    What exactly is your definition of conspiracy, such that it is never reached? What are you looking for? Some global organization that calls itself SPECTRE, Thrush, or KAOS?

    So dozens of NGOs with hundreds of employees and millions of revenue, interacting and coordinating with the government to operate ships to transport migrants, to compile lists of dissidents so they can be targeted by their banks and harassed by police, wouldn’t do it? The idea that some remote states and areas are “too white” and they need to have migrants rammed down the throat of the local populace isn’t a conspiracy?

    In the US alone, $137 million in federal funds are given to NGOs operating in Mexico to help transport migrants north.
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/ngos-assisting-migrants-who-cross-border-humanitarian-support-abetting-crime

    In order to think that there are no conspiracies, one would have to believe that man is not a social animal, and has no ideologies. That nobody subscribes to an open borders ideology.

    It is completely obvious you’re a partisan for open borders. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be so invested in saying that “there is no conspiracy.” And you wouldn’t use the Press’s phrase “Great Replacement Theory“, which is an addendum on the actual coined phrase “Great Replacement”, meant to make it seem as if something obviously observable isn’t happening.

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
  504. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123


    Tolkien delivered excellent, epic writing solidly grounded in his own people’s history.
     
    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?

    Replies: @A123

    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?

    What a strange question. Can one read tripe? Are you suggesting some new form of braille? Very odd.

    No. I have never read tripe.

     

     

    As a literate & cultured adult, I have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit multiple times.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Grow up!

    https://www.amazon.com/Game-Saturn-Decoding-Sola-Busca-tarrochi/dp/1912316048

    The late medieval world view does contain some great information of timeless relevance. It does require some work on the reader's part to suss it out. Lord of the Rings is for children. Your only conceivable excuse is you read it to your children. To put them to sleep.

  505. @LondonBob
    How the Judeo-Hibernians took out Nord Stream.

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    Does read like Hersh, probably the only place he can publish.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    How the Judeo-Hibernians took out Nord Stream.

    Everyone with two neurons to rub together knew from the start that this terror act was perpetrated by the US. The only new thing here is that Norwegians pulled the trigger. Maybe, maybe not. The empire has many vassals in the vicinity to do that little part of the job.

  506. I see Zelensky is gracing us with his presence today, don’t let the media fool you, the replies to this tweet are a more accurate reflection of how welcome he is here amongst us common folk.

    [MORE]

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Lurker
    @LondonBob

    Good point.

    But sadly most of the complainers there are leftist pricks. Brexit bad, refugees welcome, the Tories, the Tories, the Tories, Orange Man Bad etc.

    Replies: @LondonBob

  507. @A123
    @songbird


    Was 99 Luftballons a prophecy?
     
    A noteworthy warning. Yes. Prophecy, not so much. It was an observation on current events.

    Today is much less threatening:

        Vast and pathetic
            Depths of utter drek
        Inadequacy manifests
            Annihilation a shadow
        Regardless of intent
            Incapacity prevails


    The fact that I am attempting free verse poetry is possibly a sign of the "end of time".

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    The fact that I am attempting free verse poetry is possibly a sign of the “end of time”.

    Lately, I have been inspired by the humorous doggerel of ChatGPT.

    In old times, it seems like everyone composed. I wonder what a society would be like, if everyone were forced to do it. Like, you had to pay for certain things in prose.
    _____
    I did not watch Biden’s speech, but I caught a few minutes of an AI-voice generated Biden reading a prepared text. I can’t summarize it all, but one point intrigued me. He said something to the effect that “thousands of years of evolution have made men good at sniffing out trannies.”

    It is funny to think of men dressing as women to try to lure other men into some ambush, and being detected from a long distance off.

    But I don’t think it is true. I think it is more that men are selected to find healthy women and there isn’t any intersection between healthy women and men of any sort.

  508. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Have you ever spent any time in your adult life trying to read the tripe?
     
    What a strange question. Can one read tripe? Are you suggesting some new form of braille? Very odd.

    No. I have never read tripe.

     
    https://fthmb.tqn.com/HQj6Whjl8E0jg06R7QVnaBOkSE8=/960x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/tripe-56a8a78d3df78cf7729f6efd.jpg
     

    As a literate & cultured adult, I have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit multiple times.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Grow up!

    The late medieval world view does contain some great information of timeless relevance. It does require some work on the reader’s part to suss it out. Lord of the Rings is for children. Your only conceivable excuse is you read it to your children. To put them to sleep.

    • LOL: A123
  509. Fact checking Seymour Hersch:

    lat & lon on google maps: 30.170580, -85.758766

    I screen-shot the street view and put it into image search but that particular image does not show up. It does not look sinister at all but there is a security gate and useless eaters will not get past that. Fort Pickens is open to the public and maybe you can still camp there. Not after Memorial Day. It gets hotter than hell pretty quick after that.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hersh is a fabulist. He makes up some nonsense and justifies it by quoting an anonymous source.

    Here's a classic from his Bin Laden fantasy.

    "Some of the Seals were appalled later at the White House’s initial insistence that they had shot bin Laden in self-defence, the retired official said. ‘Six of the Seals’ finest, most experienced NCOs, faced with an unarmed elderly civilian, had to kill him in self-defence?"

    No, Seymour, they were not "appalled". They're extremely experienced and intelligent men who, if OBL was unarmed, would understand the requirement for PR saying otherwise. This is because Special Forces operators are not meatheads with a fragile sense of masculinity, like progressive reporters might ignorantly imagine/project onto them. They are actually the opposite and highly secure and practical. Idiot.

  510. @Emil Nikola Richard
    Fact checking Seymour Hersch:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/NDSTC_Emblem.jpg

    lat & lon on google maps: 30.170580, -85.758766

    I screen-shot the street view and put it into image search but that particular image does not show up. It does not look sinister at all but there is a security gate and useless eaters will not get past that. Fort Pickens is open to the public and maybe you can still camp there. Not after Memorial Day. It gets hotter than hell pretty quick after that.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Hersh is a fabulist. He makes up some nonsense and justifies it by quoting an anonymous source.

    Here’s a classic from his Bin Laden fantasy.

    “Some of the Seals were appalled later at the White House’s initial insistence that they had shot bin Laden in self-defence, the retired official said. ‘Six of the Seals’ finest, most experienced NCOs, faced with an unarmed elderly civilian, had to kill him in self-defence?”

    No, Seymour, they were not “appalled”. They’re extremely experienced and intelligent men who, if OBL was unarmed, would understand the requirement for PR saying otherwise. This is because Special Forces operators are not meatheads with a fragile sense of masculinity, like progressive reporters might ignorantly imagine/project onto them. They are actually the opposite and highly secure and practical. Idiot.

  511. @AP
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William

    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.

    I actually don’t care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.

    But you do bring up a good point: Ukraine in Europe would be another Hungary or Poland. I hadn’t thought of things that way before.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark. And even politicians like Macron will follow the new European consensus, or perhaps the FN will select someone without the name Le Pen and get elected.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    , @sudden death
    @Greasy William


    I actually don’t care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.
     
    Should like this soothing anthem;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mirL15zZYNc
  512. @Greasy William
    @AP


    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.
     
    I actually don't care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.

    But you do bring up a good point: Ukraine in Europe would be another Hungary or Poland. I hadn't thought of things that way before.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark. And even politicians like Macron will follow the new European consensus, or perhaps the FN will select someone without the name Le Pen and get elected.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland
     
    What kind of prestige Ukraine would have after losing current war? I think it would fit into Europe even better in this case, as Europe is full of losers.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark.
     
    Just because you want to marry Ze doesn't mean that killing off large numbers of men in Ukraine will be good for Western and Central European nationalists, let alone Eastern ones.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

  513. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark. And even politicians like Macron will follow the new European consensus, or perhaps the FN will select someone without the name Le Pen and get elected.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland

    What kind of prestige Ukraine would have after losing current war? I think it would fit into Europe even better in this case, as Europe is full of losers.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    Are you 5 years old?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  514. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland
     
    What kind of prestige Ukraine would have after losing current war? I think it would fit into Europe even better in this case, as Europe is full of losers.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Are you 5 years old?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    It helps to know history. The majority of current EU members lost a war or just folded w/o a fight in the last 100 years. Not a single EU member won a war in that period (at least none achieved a lasting victory: Germany in 1939-41 won a number of wars in Europe, but in 1945 lost everything). France was counted as a “winner” in WWII exclusively due to Stalin’s whim; in reality, France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

  515. @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    Are you 5 years old?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    It helps to know history. The majority of current EU members lost a war or just folded w/o a fight in the last 100 years. Not a single EU member won a war in that period (at least none achieved a lasting victory: Germany in 1939-41 won a number of wars in Europe, but in 1945 lost everything). France was counted as a “winner” in WWII exclusively due to Stalin’s whim; in reality, France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Have you ever read Junger's WWII diaries?

    He was a Paris alpha monkey partying with Cocteau and Picasso. The hussies of Paris threw themselves at the Nazi officers.

    Poor Guillaume Durocher. Somebody's got it worse than Karlin!

    , @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN


    France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.
     
    Didn't do very well against the Algerians either
  516. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark. And even politicians like Macron will follow the new European consensus, or perhaps the FN will select someone without the name Le Pen and get elected.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @songbird

    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark.

    Just because you want to marry Ze doesn’t mean that killing off large numbers of men in Ukraine will be good for Western and Central European nationalists, let alone Eastern ones.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    Zelya is already taken, Arestovych and Zaluzhny too. Budanov is rumored to be Gay.

    I think we might need to think of some other match for our psychoanalyst friend.

    Laxa, what about an older gentleman ? A true intellectual with a keen sense of humor ? A true benefactor to his community ? A powerful and (once) respected man ? Of course I am referring to Igor Kolomoyskyi, known as Benya to his friends. Would he be your type ?

    https://static.mk.ru/upload/objects/articles/detailPicture/b9/58/54/793226347_5704002.jpg

    I've read he has a soft spot for blue eyed blondies.

    And he is certainly in need of some psychoanalysis...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I was totally against Russian troops invading Ukraine. It being an obvious catastrophe for both the Russian government which I was highly sympathetic to and Ukraine itself. Nevermind all the dead that you cheerled the making of because you liked tanks blowing stuff up, or something.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  517. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    It helps to know history. The majority of current EU members lost a war or just folded w/o a fight in the last 100 years. Not a single EU member won a war in that period (at least none achieved a lasting victory: Germany in 1939-41 won a number of wars in Europe, but in 1945 lost everything). France was counted as a “winner” in WWII exclusively due to Stalin’s whim; in reality, France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    Have you ever read Junger’s WWII diaries?

    He was a Paris alpha monkey partying with Cocteau and Picasso. The hussies of Paris threw themselves at the Nazi officers.

    Poor Guillaume Durocher. Somebody’s got it worse than Karlin!

  518. From Pavel Priannikov’s Telegram channel. An interesting take on the current RusFed elites. Priannikov, who is Jewish on his mother’s side and from a Pomorian Communion Old Believer family on his father’s size, has written a couple of years ago that around 50% of RusFed polical elites have some Jewish descent. If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver’ Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more “ethnically heterogeneous” than the citizens whom they lord upon.

    But what about the links of the current RusFed elites to the Soviet time nomenklatura?

    [MORE]

    Genealogy of the current Russian elite.

    Interesting work on this topic was done by Kirill Petrov from MGIMO, Maria Snegova from Virginia Polytechnic University and Denis Chubarov from Moscow State University (Ideas and Ideals, No. 3, 2022).

    The authors have compiled two elite lists: positional and reputational.

    The positional list, which is determined at the beginning of August 2021, and includes 112 personalities holding positions in power structures and having serious influence. The reputation list includes 100 personalities and is based on the well-known expert model of the Russian elite “Politburo 2.0” Evgeny Minchenko.

    It turned out that 59 out of 112 people (52.6%) are related to the Soviet nomenklatura in the positional list, 50 out of 100 (50%) in the reputation list. Another 13-15% can relate to it with a significant degree of probability. These 2/3 of the top authorities of Russia come from the Soviet nomenklatura.

    This once again confirms its belonging to the Soviet asabiya, formed just over a century ago, and, as it is believed in the theory of Ibn Khaldun, now this asabiya is living out the last generation (the cycle of its life is 105-115 years).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Muscovy/Russia has historically been a project in which the elites were not natives. I suppose it isn’t completely unique (Britain had a Norman ruling class) but it differentiates Russia from Poland and Ukraine.

    Russia went from Varangians with a Swedish (Rurikid) ruling family to intermarriage with Tatars, Germans, Baltic Germans (eventually speaking French), then these guys getting wiped out and replaced by a mix of Caucasians, Jews and Latvians. Russia is a historical project of Eastern Slavs being ruled by a shifting group of foreign overlords.

    Most important rulers: Norse-speaking Rurikids (Vladimir, Yaroslavl etc.), Peter the Great (a native, albeit a Westernizer), Catherine the Great (German, who killed the relatively native ruler and spread serfdom among native Slavs), Lenin (ethnic mix), Stalin (Georgian).

    Poland had a native Piast dynasty, it had a native nobility that did sometimes elect foreign kings but not always (Sobieski was a Pole-Ruthenian) but which had ultimate control. Important Ukrainian figures after the times of Rus were mostly natives (Khmelnytsky, Vyhovsky, Mazepa, Petliura).

    Ironically, current Ukraine being led by a Jewish person is a very “Russian” phenomenon, though Ukraine’s overall government and military seems to be more native than Russia’s.

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    You are correct to point this out (Russian ethnonats talk about this a lot and I sympathize with them - but they also support a Russian monostate), however, all of these people who are in charge in RusFed, have largely assimilated. Putin might be a Veps but he speaks Russian (not his native Veps language) and he identifies as Russian and is identified as such by the Russian people. In some ways, he pushes the Russian interests, in some ways not.

    Similar to my own people, when they are imbued into the Russian government system they become die-hard imperialist Russians (maybe too much so and maybe that could be a problem, since they are not organic to that nation?) and, of course, screw their own.

    So hard to say to what extent this is all rule by foreigners or other ethnies (at least this day and age).

    The bigger question of course is why is this so... when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?

    Some Caucasians sometimes push their agenda, like the ones in commerce and such as the one Kadyrov, but he is sort of "kept" anyway.

    Did you notice how they opened another monument to Iosif Visarionovich in Volgograd on the eve of Putin's visit...? I mean, wow. Does this ever end?

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Yevardian
    @Ivashka the fool


    If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver’ Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more “ethnically heterogeneous” than the citizens whom they lord upon.
     
    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     
    In other news, the sky is blue.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

  519. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark.
     
    Just because you want to marry Ze doesn't mean that killing off large numbers of men in Ukraine will be good for Western and Central European nationalists, let alone Eastern ones.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    Zelya is already taken, Arestovych and Zaluzhny too. Budanov is rumored to be Gay.

    I think we might need to think of some other match for our psychoanalyst friend.

    Laxa, what about an older gentleman ? A true intellectual with a keen sense of humor ? A true benefactor to his community ? A powerful and (once) respected man ? Of course I am referring to Igor Kolomoyskyi, known as Benya to his friends. Would he be your type ?

    I’ve read he has a soft spot for blue eyed blondies.

    And he is certainly in need of some psychoanalysis…

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    I have a romantic and sexual partner. Thanks. A different one from when the account started with two people. In this case, a Russian, by weird coincidence.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Budanov is rumored to be Gay.
     
    Budanov doesn't act gay and he is married to a cute Ukrainian woman. Your gaydar seems a bit out of whack, a bit too skewed towards Ukrainians lately. :)

    But kudos for the sense of humor.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

  520. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Ukraine in Europe, with the enormous prestige won from this defence of their homeland, would do a lot to empower the types of forces that are in power in Italy, Poland, Hungary and even Denmark.
     
    Just because you want to marry Ze doesn't mean that killing off large numbers of men in Ukraine will be good for Western and Central European nationalists, let alone Eastern ones.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    I was totally against Russian troops invading Ukraine. It being an obvious catastrophe for both the Russian government which I was highly sympathetic to and Ukraine itself. Nevermind all the dead that you cheerled the making of because you liked tanks blowing stuff up, or something.

    • Troll: songbird
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I agree that the whole RusFed - Ukiestan affair is a disgrace. Eastern Slav didn't need this massacre and destruction and they certainly don't deserve all this suffering.

    Both RusFed's and Ukiestan elites should be hung together from the same lampposts. I would personally like to start with the Kremlin Noviop before I'd hang the Bankovskaya Khazar סקאַנדאַלז and their shabbosgoyim.

    Replies: @AP

  521. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    Zelya is already taken, Arestovych and Zaluzhny too. Budanov is rumored to be Gay.

    I think we might need to think of some other match for our psychoanalyst friend.

    Laxa, what about an older gentleman ? A true intellectual with a keen sense of humor ? A true benefactor to his community ? A powerful and (once) respected man ? Of course I am referring to Igor Kolomoyskyi, known as Benya to his friends. Would he be your type ?

    https://static.mk.ru/upload/objects/articles/detailPicture/b9/58/54/793226347_5704002.jpg

    I've read he has a soft spot for blue eyed blondies.

    And he is certainly in need of some psychoanalysis...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    I have a romantic and sexual partner. Thanks. A different one from when the account started with two people. In this case, a Russian, by weird coincidence.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Congratulations!

    Совет вам да любовь!

    (An old Russian wish of happiness to a new formed couple).

    I hope that when this all terrible mess ends, you would have an opportunity to visit Russia. If you haven't already been there, Piter is a must see and my poor Moscovite heart belongs there forever.

    https://tut1.ru/uploads/posts/2017-12/1513177208_150712537.jpg

    🙂

    Replies: @S

  522. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I was totally against Russian troops invading Ukraine. It being an obvious catastrophe for both the Russian government which I was highly sympathetic to and Ukraine itself. Nevermind all the dead that you cheerled the making of because you liked tanks blowing stuff up, or something.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I agree that the whole RusFed – Ukiestan affair is a disgrace. Eastern Slav didn’t need this massacre and destruction and they certainly don’t deserve all this suffering.

    Both RusFed’s and Ukiestan elites should be hung together from the same lampposts. I would personally like to start with the Kremlin Noviop before I’d hang the Bankovskaya Khazar סקאַנדאַלז and their shabbosgoyim.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Agree with the first paragraph but not with the second, which implies that the two sides are more or less equally to blame for this catastrophe.

    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war.

    The corrupted RusFed hierarchy aside, there are decent people from among the regular priesthood:



    https://twitter.com/burbalka/status/1623353146864021504?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623297435907813376?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623298533825646592?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    Replies: @Sean, @Mr. Hack

  523. @LondonBob
    I see Zelensky is gracing us with his presence today, don't let the media fool you, the replies to this tweet are a more accurate reflection of how welcome he is here amongst us common folk.



    https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1623270752416833538?s=20&t=Xn-E-mK34CLmnmoc5-f2Jw

    Replies: @Lurker

    Good point.

    But sadly most of the complainers there are leftist pricks. Brexit bad, refugees welcome, the Tories, the Tories, the Tories, Orange Man Bad etc.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Lurker

    The first few certainly aren't.

  524. Is this real?

    [MORE]

    Isn’t that what Stallone ate in Demolition Man?

  525. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I agree that the whole RusFed - Ukiestan affair is a disgrace. Eastern Slav didn't need this massacre and destruction and they certainly don't deserve all this suffering.

    Both RusFed's and Ukiestan elites should be hung together from the same lampposts. I would personally like to start with the Kremlin Noviop before I'd hang the Bankovskaya Khazar סקאַנדאַלז and their shabbosgoyim.

    Replies: @AP

    Agree with the first paragraph but not with the second, which implies that the two sides are more or less equally to blame for this catastrophe.

    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war.

    The corrupted RusFed hierarchy aside, there are decent people from among the regular priesthood:

    [MORE]

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Sean
    @AP


    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war
     
    No country can or will go beyond the scope of its own interests as it sees them. Call that a moral shortcoming, but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    I'll have to agree with you here. I think that ITF needs to explain just how exactly he seems to equate equal responsibility for this war between Russia and Ukraine, when it's very clear that it was Russia that first stepped over Ukraine's border and started this war.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  526. The new thirty something Ukrainian minister of defence Kyrylo Budanov says Crimea will be retaken, which Vlad Vexler says Putin could not survive. Mykhailo Podolyak a trusted advisor of Zelensky is of late predicting huge Russian losses in a new offensive followed by a successful counter attack by Ukraine and a revolution in Russia in 2023.

    Conventional arms-wise America is having to hold back ATACMS and other deep penetration weapons from Ukraine to stop it trouncing Russia, yet in nuclear weapons Russia is essentially equal to America, which in any case has said it will not retaliate with nuclear weapons to any Russian nuclear weapon use against the Ukrainian army. The Russian army is threadbare and defensive, it will likely continue to disappoint the Kremlin, even thought he US aid to Ukraine is very finely ballanced so as to no make Ukraine conventionally unstoppable. Ukraine may be able to succeed in getting enough aid to attain its ultimate objectives against the undercover will of the US; the conventional weakness of Russia over-against Ukraine is what Washington fears most .

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  527. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Agree with the first paragraph but not with the second, which implies that the two sides are more or less equally to blame for this catastrophe.

    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war.

    The corrupted RusFed hierarchy aside, there are decent people from among the regular priesthood:



    https://twitter.com/burbalka/status/1623353146864021504?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623297435907813376?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623298533825646592?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    Replies: @Sean, @Mr. Hack

    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war

    No country can or will go beyond the scope of its own interests as it sees them. Call that a moral shortcoming, but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Sean


    but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.
     
    Putin dramatically underestimated Ukrainian resolve which led to him falsely expecting a quick win.

    One can expect ignorant Western Russian fanboys like Beckow to think that Ukrainians would give up their country quickly, but it is surprising that Putin who had intelligence people all over Ukraine would make such a major miscalculation.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Sean

  528. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    Zelya is already taken, Arestovych and Zaluzhny too. Budanov is rumored to be Gay.

    I think we might need to think of some other match for our psychoanalyst friend.

    Laxa, what about an older gentleman ? A true intellectual with a keen sense of humor ? A true benefactor to his community ? A powerful and (once) respected man ? Of course I am referring to Igor Kolomoyskyi, known as Benya to his friends. Would he be your type ?

    https://static.mk.ru/upload/objects/articles/detailPicture/b9/58/54/793226347_5704002.jpg

    I've read he has a soft spot for blue eyed blondies.

    And he is certainly in need of some psychoanalysis...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    Budanov is rumored to be Gay.

    Budanov doesn’t act gay and he is married to a cute Ukrainian woman. Your gaydar seems a bit out of whack, a bit too skewed towards Ukrainians lately. 🙂

    But kudos for the sense of humor.

    • Replies: @AP
    @LatW

    In April when near the Polish-Ukrainian border I spoke with a major arms dealer who worked closely with him and who predicted a very positive future for him.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @AP
    @LatW

    Here is Budanov with his wife, outside an Orthodox Church:

    https://ukrainky.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/marianna-budanova-1-690x1024.jpeg

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Rumored, doesn't mean that he is. Anyone could be rumored being Gay, except yours truly. Because as the Russian saying goes :

    https://memesmix.net/media/created/npvd2f.jpg

  529. @Ivashka the fool
    From Pavel Priannikov's Telegram channel. An interesting take on the current RusFed elites. Priannikov, who is Jewish on his mother's side and from a Pomorian Communion Old Believer family on his father's size, has written a couple of years ago that around 50% of RusFed polical elites have some Jewish descent. If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver' Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more "ethnically heterogeneous" than the citizens whom they lord upon.

    But what about the links of the current RusFed elites to the Soviet time nomenklatura?


    Genealogy of the current Russian elite.

    Interesting work on this topic was done by Kirill Petrov from MGIMO, Maria Snegova from Virginia Polytechnic University and Denis Chubarov from Moscow State University (Ideas and Ideals, No. 3, 2022).

    The authors have compiled two elite lists: positional and reputational.

    The positional list, which is determined at the beginning of August 2021, and includes 112 personalities holding positions in power structures and having serious influence. The reputation list includes 100 personalities and is based on the well-known expert model of the Russian elite "Politburo 2.0" Evgeny Minchenko.

    It turned out that 59 out of 112 people (52.6%) are related to the Soviet nomenklatura in the positional list, 50 out of 100 (50%) in the reputation list. Another 13-15% can relate to it with a significant degree of probability. These 2/3 of the top authorities of Russia come from the Soviet nomenklatura.

    This once again confirms its belonging to the Soviet asabiya, formed just over a century ago, and, as it is believed in the theory of Ibn Khaldun, now this asabiya is living out the last generation (the cycle of its life is 105-115 years).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Yevardian

    Muscovy/Russia has historically been a project in which the elites were not natives. I suppose it isn’t completely unique (Britain had a Norman ruling class) but it differentiates Russia from Poland and Ukraine.

    Russia went from Varangians with a Swedish (Rurikid) ruling family to intermarriage with Tatars, Germans, Baltic Germans (eventually speaking French), then these guys getting wiped out and replaced by a mix of Caucasians, Jews and Latvians. Russia is a historical project of Eastern Slavs being ruled by a shifting group of foreign overlords.

    Most important rulers: Norse-speaking Rurikids (Vladimir, Yaroslavl etc.), Peter the Great (a native, albeit a Westernizer), Catherine the Great (German, who killed the relatively native ruler and spread serfdom among native Slavs), Lenin (ethnic mix), Stalin (Georgian).

    Poland had a native Piast dynasty, it had a native nobility that did sometimes elect foreign kings but not always (Sobieski was a Pole-Ruthenian) but which had ultimate control. Important Ukrainian figures after the times of Rus were mostly natives (Khmelnytsky, Vyhovsky, Mazepa, Petliura).

    Ironically, current Ukraine being led by a Jewish person is a very “Russian” phenomenon, though Ukraine’s overall government and military seems to be more native than Russia’s.

  530. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Budanov is rumored to be Gay.
     
    Budanov doesn't act gay and he is married to a cute Ukrainian woman. Your gaydar seems a bit out of whack, a bit too skewed towards Ukrainians lately. :)

    But kudos for the sense of humor.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    In April when near the Polish-Ukrainian border I spoke with a major arms dealer who worked closely with him and who predicted a very positive future for him.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @AP


    who predicted a very positive future for him
     
    What little I know of him from his open source interviews (granted, maybe he gives too many given his profession, but I don't object), I'm very impressed with him. I don't have enough to evaluate his actual skills, but his stance seems superbly patriotic (even nationalist). He's definitely got what it takes to be dangerous, as they say. May he live long - he will be needed.
  531. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    I have a romantic and sexual partner. Thanks. A different one from when the account started with two people. In this case, a Russian, by weird coincidence.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Congratulations!

    Совет вам да любовь!

    (An old Russian wish of happiness to a new formed couple).

    I hope that when this all terrible mess ends, you would have an opportunity to visit Russia. If you haven’t already been there, Piter is a must see and my poor Moscovite heart belongs there forever.

    🙂

    • Thanks: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thanks for the fantastic pic of St Pete, Bashi. I must visit someday and see it's canals.

    Upthread you had proposed having 'a serious discussion about where it is all heading'. I responded with a couple of comments below while you were away briefly. If you are still up for it I am sure the site, not to mention myself certainly, would be glad to hear your thoughts.

    I thought as a start to finding the answer to your question it might be useful to have some background information in regards to the Anglosphere countries..

    The Secret History of the United States and United Kingdom:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5801373

    The Cosmology of the United States and United Kingdom With an Emphasis on the New Rome and British Israelism:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5802819

  532. @Ivashka the fool
    From Pavel Priannikov's Telegram channel. An interesting take on the current RusFed elites. Priannikov, who is Jewish on his mother's side and from a Pomorian Communion Old Believer family on his father's size, has written a couple of years ago that around 50% of RusFed polical elites have some Jewish descent. If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver' Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more "ethnically heterogeneous" than the citizens whom they lord upon.

    But what about the links of the current RusFed elites to the Soviet time nomenklatura?


    Genealogy of the current Russian elite.

    Interesting work on this topic was done by Kirill Petrov from MGIMO, Maria Snegova from Virginia Polytechnic University and Denis Chubarov from Moscow State University (Ideas and Ideals, No. 3, 2022).

    The authors have compiled two elite lists: positional and reputational.

    The positional list, which is determined at the beginning of August 2021, and includes 112 personalities holding positions in power structures and having serious influence. The reputation list includes 100 personalities and is based on the well-known expert model of the Russian elite "Politburo 2.0" Evgeny Minchenko.

    It turned out that 59 out of 112 people (52.6%) are related to the Soviet nomenklatura in the positional list, 50 out of 100 (50%) in the reputation list. Another 13-15% can relate to it with a significant degree of probability. These 2/3 of the top authorities of Russia come from the Soviet nomenklatura.

    This once again confirms its belonging to the Soviet asabiya, formed just over a century ago, and, as it is believed in the theory of Ibn Khaldun, now this asabiya is living out the last generation (the cycle of its life is 105-115 years).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Yevardian

    You are correct to point this out (Russian ethnonats talk about this a lot and I sympathize with them – but they also support a Russian monostate), however, all of these people who are in charge in RusFed, have largely assimilated. Putin might be a Veps but he speaks Russian (not his native Veps language) and he identifies as Russian and is identified as such by the Russian people. In some ways, he pushes the Russian interests, in some ways not.

    Similar to my own people, when they are imbued into the Russian government system they become die-hard imperialist Russians (maybe too much so and maybe that could be a problem, since they are not organic to that nation?) and, of course, screw their own.

    So hard to say to what extent this is all rule by foreigners or other ethnies (at least this day and age).

    The bigger question of course is why is this so… when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?

    Some Caucasians sometimes push their agenda, like the ones in commerce and such as the one Kadyrov, but he is sort of “kept” anyway.

    Did you notice how they opened another monument to Iosif Visarionovich in Volgograd on the eve of Putin’s visit…? I mean, wow. Does this ever end?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    bigger question of course is why is this so
     
    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries - answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.

    It's interesting Bashibuzuk posts a photo of Saint-Petersburg, which I also like more, but to return to the topic of politics, this is a city of ideals i.e. more disguising than showing the political reality. But the explanation of the politics, is more undisguised in Moscow and I think most people understand it there.

    We could give any unsampled dreamers like e.g. AaronB with a blindfold and very high dose of psilocybin. Throw him in parachute above Moscow. Allow him for a few days to hallucinogenic confused exploration of the urban design of the city using his "third eye". Walk around Kremlin's walls and feel the power not accessible but above you. And after all, he would probably be able to feel some of the political system.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    but they also support a Russian monostate
     
    The National Democrats want a proportional representation of all the ethnic groups in the political circles. Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens - Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians. Armenians = 1 % of the population - Armenians = 1% of political elites etc.

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics and a complete equality of all citizens before the national law. The same rights for everyone to reside wherever they like in Russia. No ethnic enclaves. No Chechnya for me, but not for thee. No more Apartheid in the Caucasus.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics, not on lobbying or other factors. No more Chechens getting 2 -3 times more subsidies than their Ingush brethren and 5 - 6 times more than ethnic Russian hinterland.

    Once the guaranteed quotas filled for all the ethnic groups on political stage, everything else should be pure meritocracy.

    No more Central Asian immigration, and Certainly no citizenship without being born in Russia.

    That's what Konstantin Krylov advocated, and this is why they got him judged and condemned for "the article 282" (hateful propaganda).


    The bigger question of course is why is this so…
     
    Oh that's easy: it's an historical tradition. Tsarist Empire already had a cosmopolitan aristocracy that was more than 60% non Russian (with a lot of nobles of German, Tatar, Polish- Lithuanian, Georgian and Maloross descent). And then in USSR, being an ethnic Russian was more trouble than anything else, especially immediately after the revolution, when you got shot for "Great Russian Chauvinism" and "Antisemitism".

    when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?
     
    Nobody wants to drop off other ethnic groups, it's the rootless Noviop who are the problem, not people of other ethnicities. My grandmother's village near Penza was ethnic Russian, but a few miles away there were Tatar and Mordvin Moksha villages. People lived side by side for generations, they traded and exchanged goods, but they seldomly intermarried before the revolution.

    If the Noviop are kicked out of the positions of power, then everyone would be encouraged to live according to their customs.

    https://youtu.be/ex2hCQNFQY8

    https://youtu.be/1ADu5c6M1r0

    And ethnic Russians would also live the way they're meant to.

    Replies: @LatW

  533. @AP
    @LatW

    In April when near the Polish-Ukrainian border I spoke with a major arms dealer who worked closely with him and who predicted a very positive future for him.

    Replies: @LatW

    who predicted a very positive future for him

    What little I know of him from his open source interviews (granted, maybe he gives too many given his profession, but I don’t object), I’m very impressed with him. I don’t have enough to evaluate his actual skills, but his stance seems superbly patriotic (even nationalist). He’s definitely got what it takes to be dangerous, as they say. May he live long – he will be needed.

  534. • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    Seymour Hersh writes about Nord2 and US origins of Attack.
     
    Did you ever doubt that sabotage of NS1 and NS2 was either perpetrated or directed by the US?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  535. @Lurker
    @LondonBob

    Good point.

    But sadly most of the complainers there are leftist pricks. Brexit bad, refugees welcome, the Tories, the Tories, the Tories, Orange Man Bad etc.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    The first few certainly aren’t.

    • Thanks: Lurker
  536. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Congratulations!

    Совет вам да любовь!

    (An old Russian wish of happiness to a new formed couple).

    I hope that when this all terrible mess ends, you would have an opportunity to visit Russia. If you haven't already been there, Piter is a must see and my poor Moscovite heart belongs there forever.

    https://tut1.ru/uploads/posts/2017-12/1513177208_150712537.jpg

    🙂

    Replies: @S

    Thanks for the fantastic pic of St Pete, Bashi. I must visit someday and see it’s canals.

    Upthread you had proposed having ‘a serious discussion about where it is all heading’. I responded with a couple of comments below while you were away briefly. If you are still up for it I am sure the site, not to mention myself certainly, would be glad to hear your thoughts.

    I thought as a start to finding the answer to your question it might be useful to have some background information in regards to the Anglosphere countries..

    The Secret History of the United States and United Kingdom:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5801373

    The Cosmology of the United States and United Kingdom With an Emphasis on the New Rome and British Israelism:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5802819

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  537. @Ivashka the fool
    From Pavel Priannikov's Telegram channel. An interesting take on the current RusFed elites. Priannikov, who is Jewish on his mother's side and from a Pomorian Communion Old Believer family on his father's size, has written a couple of years ago that around 50% of RusFed polical elites have some Jewish descent. If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver' Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more "ethnically heterogeneous" than the citizens whom they lord upon.

    But what about the links of the current RusFed elites to the Soviet time nomenklatura?


    Genealogy of the current Russian elite.

    Interesting work on this topic was done by Kirill Petrov from MGIMO, Maria Snegova from Virginia Polytechnic University and Denis Chubarov from Moscow State University (Ideas and Ideals, No. 3, 2022).

    The authors have compiled two elite lists: positional and reputational.

    The positional list, which is determined at the beginning of August 2021, and includes 112 personalities holding positions in power structures and having serious influence. The reputation list includes 100 personalities and is based on the well-known expert model of the Russian elite "Politburo 2.0" Evgeny Minchenko.

    It turned out that 59 out of 112 people (52.6%) are related to the Soviet nomenklatura in the positional list, 50 out of 100 (50%) in the reputation list. Another 13-15% can relate to it with a significant degree of probability. These 2/3 of the top authorities of Russia come from the Soviet nomenklatura.

    This once again confirms its belonging to the Soviet asabiya, formed just over a century ago, and, as it is believed in the theory of Ibn Khaldun, now this asabiya is living out the last generation (the cycle of its life is 105-115 years).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     

    Replies: @AP, @LatW, @Yevardian

    If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver’ Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more “ethnically heterogeneous” than the citizens whom they lord upon.

    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”

    In other news, the sky is blue.

    • Thanks: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Yevardian


    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).
     
    Same as other Imperial-Nationalist states no? Liberal Tokenism in the West or India.

    Going to stick to questions & Sikh news + avoid comments/discussions/argument.

    Butthurt over Rishi Sunak is the reason for my dismissal from the discord btw.
    Based.


    ਖਾਲਸਾਸੋਜੋਦੰਗਾਮਚਾਵੈ
    ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਸੋਜੋਸੀਸਲਗਾਵੈ

    Khalsa is the one who is turbulent (riots)
    Khalsa is the one who sacrifices his head (life)
     

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777361459130138627/1072961933495517224/329214891_911959403264868_1304064747119195603_n.mp4

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/775344092862873600/1072962443585790083/Screenshot_20230208-192904.png
    , @Dmitry
    @Yevardian

    If I remember from our previous discussions, idiosyncrasy of Bashibuzuk/Anon4's viewpoint, is to see nationality as the most important variable in politics, while trying to balance this with need to reduce responsibility of Russians, for the "not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government" (imperialism, corruption, etc).

    This can be partly explained as to save the ego ("influence of nonslavic nationalities, including the older Russian nationalities that was here before the immigration of slavs, are responsible for the problems") which conveniently matches to self-identity of the person writing the post, but it also has optimistic side, because it implies the problems could be theoretically easy to solve by replacing multinational clans to mononational clans (where my view can be actually feeling more depressing and pessimistic in the implications)*.

    There is true, the government is a multinational clan system and there is "not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government" of the last centuries, to say it mildly.

    There is possibility to argue that nationalism, which would include disengagement from nonrussian territory, could allow more preconditions for the development of the modern European nation state which perhaps might not have the imperialist priority as such build in feature (the multinational clan system can perhaps seem to include imperialism as almost systematic feature). There were examples of the 19th century, where use of nationalism has resulted in modern, republican countries, although usually because those were liberated from the occupation of foreign empires.

    However, in the postsoviet space, there are countries with mononational clan system, which are including "not always completely optimal decisions". For example, elites of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Moldova, Armenia, are not necessarily less exploiting, than the multinational elite of the Russian Federation.

    Armenia is ruled by mononational Armenian clans, but I'm not sure the mononational Armenian clans will be exploiting less their own people, than the multinational clans in Moscow. Their behavior seems quite similar, with Ferraris in the centre of Yerevan and bank accounts in Switzerland.

    Outside postsoviet space, there are many countries ruled by mononational clans, with some similar government trends as the multinational Russian Federation. Mexico, China, Colombia, Turkey, Philippines, etc.

    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation. There was an earthquake in Turkey, where the inadequate investment in buildings that follow seismic codes, can be responsible for now tens of thousands of deaths of Turkish civilians. AKP didn't require an Armenian external minister and propagandist, to fail with the seismic codes. Turkey's mononational clans were apparently sufficient for the failure of disaster preparation in Turkey.

    There are examples of effective governments, in multinational ruled countries like Switzerland or Singapore, which would have the most successful disaster preparation or economic attainment. Or there can be mononational ruled countries, with the same nationality, like North or South Korea,** producing opposite kinds of governments because of different historical path.

    In the Venn diagram, Switzerland and Lebanon, are sharing the division across the three nationalities. But in terms of diagram with spectrum of the quality of the government Switzerland and Lebanon will be opposite sides of the diagram. Multinational Bermuda is utopia from island examples, but multinational Sri Lanka has been dystopia.

    I guess nationality topic (like religion, resources, geography) is one important for understanding the situation (including sometimes problems, wars, disaster) of some countries, globally it is not necessarily the variable which determines the desirable or undesirable results, e.g. difference between Singapore and Kyrgyzstan cannot be explained by the variable of their level of multinationality, which is about the same.

    -
    * I think the problem in postsoviet is often "clans". In Russia, there is the feature of their multinational collaboration, but in other postsoviet countries there are mononational versions of the clan system which feel very similar. In the postsoviet space, there are also the example of the Baltic countries which can reduce the "postsoviet clan system" since the 1990s.

    ** Similarity of peoples is not exactly recipe for peace, as historically more related people often kill each other more, than distant peoples. So, for Russia, the border with China is more peaceful than border with Ukraine. But for Azerbaijan, it is more peaceful with Russia, than with Armenians. And the border of Russia with North Korea, is more peaceful than the border of North Korea with South Korea.


    non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).
     
    The local nationalities in Russia will dissolve and become Russian, unless nationalism will become accepted it might be possible to save e.g. Tatars as a semi-real nationality (it's already mostly dissolved). But there are many immigrants from Caucasian and Central Asian nationalities which will not dissolve, but can more change the demographics of parts of cities, politically correct way to talk about them now translates as "the Southerners".

    Replies: @LatW

  538. @Wokechoke
    Seymour Hersh writes about Nord2 and US origins of Attack.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-bombed-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-claims-investigative-journalist-seymour-hersh-s730dnnfz

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Seymour Hersh writes about Nord2 and US origins of Attack.

    Did you ever doubt that sabotage of NS1 and NS2 was either perpetrated or directed by the US?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    Nice to see it in print though. In a paper of record.

  539. Sher Singh says:
    @Yevardian
    @Ivashka the fool


    If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver’ Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more “ethnically heterogeneous” than the citizens whom they lord upon.
     
    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     
    In other news, the sky is blue.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    Same as other Imperial-Nationalist states no? Liberal Tokenism in the West or India.

    Going to stick to questions & Sikh news + avoid comments/discussions/argument.

    Butthurt over Rishi Sunak is the reason for my dismissal from the discord btw.
    Based.

    ਖਾਲਸਾਸੋਜੋਦੰਗਾਮਚਾਵੈ
    ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾਸੋਜੋਸੀਸਲਗਾਵੈ

    Khalsa is the one who is turbulent (riots)
    Khalsa is the one who sacrifices his head (life)

  540. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It’s interesting those French music videos are more souless waste product than even something that can be produced by North Korea or China. Like something created by an industrial process that excludes humans.
     
    I have heard that the Italian versions are worse but I don't know first hand. There were similar products in the UK at the time, perhaps not as sexualised as some of the French, I am trying to remember... there was a division between the mainstream 'manufactured' pop music and the 'indie' bands who were all on smaller record labels.


    French pop culture is often worse than any American, German or Russian pop culture. But from the country with the greatest tradition of art, culture, criticism.
     
    I used to find some of the chanson française stuff interesting, the literary influence in some of it seemed stronger than you would find with mainstream British or US pop music. Like these Serge Gainsbourg songs with lyrics from poems of Nerval and Felix Arvers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_7l5by688

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5mAzzIK7As

    This is how 1960s counter-culture was like a short sign that spirituality was still going, but it’s rapidly converted to an industrial product...
     
    I feel like this spirit had some lingering afterlife through the next few decades, till more and more marginal things were bought up and made corporate or disappeared. By the 2000s it seemed to have fully faded away.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    were bought up and made corporate or disappeared. By the 2000s

    Beatles are interesting. My knowledge of their chronology is a little undeveloped (I’m too lazy to Google this), but if I remember, they begin as an industrial product, that is marketed for American mainstream teenagers. But as the counter-culture develops in America, they rapidly change to creating anti-industrial, handbuilt, artistic products. By end of the 1960s, John Lennon is a modern artist working beyond music, protesting the Vietnam war by living in a bed in New York.

    In food analogy, perhaps like there was an originally mass production MacDonald’s, which following a change of historical trend, is becoming a creator of organic handmade, hamburgers, that contribute to criticism of the industrialized farm industry.

    . Like these Serge Gainsbourg songs with lyrics

    I guess this sweetness is a very Latin culture.It feels like the populist “sweet cake” products in the French bakery (“Pain au chocolat”). But it is 1961. The Latin culture tradition which has been handcooked, by an local chef following family recipes.

    It’s after 1980s French films which is really feeling to me industrialized and commercial. Maybe the combination of the sweetness with the robotization, is why the 1980s French culture feels so depressing. “Pain au chocolat” is sweet and superficial food enough, but the supermarket version made by a robot in the factory is worse than non-sweet industrial foods made by robots in the factory.

    similar products in the UK at the time, perhaps not as sexualised as some of the French, .

    It’s like Pink Floyd, The Who, Joy Division. While more populist and commercial is David Bowie (maybe he is borderzone between independent and commercial), Kate Bush (borderzones), Queen, Human League (which is similar to commercial advertizing), The Cure (which is very commercial) etc.

    British popular music was often including the themes of mild criticism of industrial society.

  541. @Greasy William
    @AP


    Ukraine has what you claim to want: a conservative almost completely European-settled place. Ukraine winning means another conservative European country to add to places like Hungary. Ukraine losing means the elimination of such a country. It’s that simple. If there is any hope for Europe, it’s in the East-Central parts. Ukraine expands it.
     
    I actually don't care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.

    But you do bring up a good point: Ukraine in Europe would be another Hungary or Poland. I hadn't thought of things that way before.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

    I actually don’t care about white/non white. I would like it if all white people disappeared because then there would be no more white liberals.

    Should like this soothing anthem;)

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  542. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Budanov is rumored to be Gay.
     
    Budanov doesn't act gay and he is married to a cute Ukrainian woman. Your gaydar seems a bit out of whack, a bit too skewed towards Ukrainians lately. :)

    But kudos for the sense of humor.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    Here is Budanov with his wife, outside an Orthodox Church:

    • Replies: @LatW
    @AP

    I know... so cute. She is so tiny, yet she must be such a strong woman inside. She has already been through so much - there was an assassination attempt on him, and they haven't really seen much peace together because he was sent to war during the very first days of ATO. She volunteered at a military hospital where she helped take care of the wounded. And then survived a missile strike together with пане Kyrylo.

    From when her husband was wounded:

    "I remember when my husband was in surgery for nine hours after a heavy injury. At that moment I received support from the guys whom I had myself helped before. It got so etched in my memory that even after 40 years I will still remember this display of humanity".

    She's also quite patriotic and has those same big dreams that we all do:

    "After our victory, I wish for Ukraine to become a new geo-strategic center of Europe. At the first stage, a leader of Eastern Europe, but later - a powerful European continental country in all aspects.
    We have to move from objectivity to subjectivity. We proved our right to our own identity and sovereignty. Of course, this will not happen in a year, two or five. However, the whole world must know that Ukraine is a powerful state to be reckoned with."

  543. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    As for the state of Israel: nowhere the Bible says that there will be gathering Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again. BTW, Mormons - who, according to themselves - are also "Israel", this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.

    I think that people who think they are the arm of God fulfilling prophecy (Evangelicals, Chabad-Lubavitch, Zionists, etc) among themselves aren't absolutely sure which interpretation is right, and thus they try to bring to life different versions of their readings. It creates the confusion of end times.

    Under one such reading, since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists. And there is a strong push from some Jewish feminists to allow women pray there ... which could be read as "abomination of desolation", since women were originally banned from the Temple.

    That exposes the serious problem of trying to be a tool of God during the End Times: since these End Times are evil to a large extent, substantial number of human tools would have to be evil, and thus could not reasonably expect a prize from God under literal (not Kabbalistic etc) reading of the Bible. This would be like "counterrevolutionaries" getting medals from Stalin after all. But apparently they are still going on...

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.

    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don’t have to follow the Bible’s texts. It’s not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market “Christianity” to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).

    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again

    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be “heavenly Jerusalem”), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.

    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists

    Sure, Jesus says “not one stone will be left on another ” (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Dmitry

    To me, Jesus obviously expected to establish a physical kingdom, based in Jerusalem, with himself as its leader. He did not expect to get killed in the process.

    I'm not saying you can't interpret his words differently but that is the most straightforward understanding of what he said and is certainly how the people he was speaking to understood it.

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be “heavenly Jerusalem”), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.
     
    " Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

    In Revelation, New Jerusalem descends from Heaven, which implies it is extra-natural occurrence after or during some apocalyptic event on par with Noah's flood which will remove seas. How this can be implied to mean "Palestine in the 20th century" is beyond me. It will be also a return to Eden, to to say, to dwelling together with God. Gentiles will not be there - thus the obsession of Christian Judaizers to become "adopted" Jews (eg. British Israel, Mormons etc.)

    Probably, it implies the arrival of some extra-terrestrial civilization, and extraction of the chosen Jews into space, at least temporarily. New Jerusalem of Revelation could be very well a spaceship - it is all metallic at least. That scientologists did not jump upon it probably means that they know they won't be invited inside (as many many others). Unfortunately, Maimonides-interpretation of Bible which claims that all events in the Bible are natural events, has spread over the official Bible interpretation. Nevertheless, two years ago Pope Francis said that it is very likely that "beings exist in Universe in full communion with God".


    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple.
     
    Most likely it means "generation" in the sense of the generation after the Flood, or after Noah. Nevertheless, since some believe Gospels were written post 70 AD, the Temple prophecy could be inserted post factum to make Gospels more credible. The Temple Prophecy is not present in Revelation of St John or other Apocalypses (also apocryphic ones).

    As for gathering of Jews in earlier prophecies of OT, it probably already happened. In fact, Jews lived in Poland for circa 1000 years, so that could be very well Revelation's 1000 years-reign of Christ, especially as people living there are described as "priests of God" which corresponds to the OT description of Jews as "nations of priests". Remember that Revelation is Judeochristian document about Jews/Ebionites/Qumranites/Judeochristians and taken as a whole, seems to be more authentic that Gospels in their entirety (well, no other text has 4 versions in the Bible).

    This 1000-years passage is also very troubling for detecting the End Times but at least gives credibility to my earlier claim that Apocalypse is a years-long event which started a long time ago, maybe even in 70 AD..

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    Well, last spring I got the Book of Mormon from 3 Mormon pretty girls from USA in Czech Praha. I was pretty shocked that Mormons now turned to (experimental?) 20+ female missionaries strategy. Maybe they got inspired by the "daughters of Moab playing harlots" Biblical fragment - after all, they called one of their cities in Utah - Moab.
    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called "Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife"...?
    Anyway, such a mission is much more approachable and nicer to talk than your usual black-clad, tired, dull Mormon missionaries.
    I do wonder, though, how many converts Mormons get per mission, especially in developed countries, where there are no financial/lifestyle incentives to become a convert.

    I did not yet read "The Book of Mormon" but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT). However, there are quite a few nice, Bible-style pictures to sweeten the reading experience.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don’t have to follow the Bible’s texts.

     

    I just took in my hand my copy of the Book of Mormon, a book which luckily has the subject index full of cross-references (very useful thing when studying religious texts, always get a copy with such an index)...
    and the Biblical Book Of Isaiah is the most heavily referenced of all the Biblical books, another one is Mark's Gospel.

    So they do follow Biblical text in some way, at least some books.

    Actually, they seem to accept the Bible in its entirety:

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures?lang=eng

  544. @Sean
    @AP


    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war
     
    No country can or will go beyond the scope of its own interests as it sees them. Call that a moral shortcoming, but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.

    Replies: @AP

    but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.

    Putin dramatically underestimated Ukrainian resolve which led to him falsely expecting a quick win.

    One can expect ignorant Western Russian fanboys like Beckow to think that Ukrainians would give up their country quickly, but it is surprising that Putin who had intelligence people all over Ukraine would make such a major miscalculation.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @AP

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks. And both US and UK intelligence expected the Soviet Union to last only a few months against Nazi Germany.

    Anyway, back to the war itself: the Western media is clearly prepping their audience for a massive Russian offensive. Sounds like sometime within the next 10 days. But I suspect that Putin is again overplaying his hand and we are going to get an Operation Michael situation where Russia makes impressive gains that it proves unable to hold while suffering crippling losses to its offensive capabilities. Only after this offensive fails will Putin maybe be willing to consider an armistice. Right now he seems to believe he's winning

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Philip Owen, @Wokechoke

    , @QCIC
    @AP

    So what do you think Putin now believes vis a vis Ukrainians?

    , @Sean
    @AP

    Maybe it would be better if you started thinking what will happen in the future. It's clear to me that America is not going to intentionally give Ukraine the arms necessary to do to Russia what the incredibly young (headstong) new Ukrainian minister of defence Kyrylo Budanov says and retake Crimea, which Vlad Vexler says Putin could not survive. But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility. An even better guide to Zelensky's thinking and the future is his close adviser Mykhailo Podolyak, who says Russia will incur huge casualties and collapse into political anarchy as a result of the next round of offense and counteroffensives. The question has become more than 'will Putin realising the war is an unwinnable drain on resources, give up his gains in Ukraine including Crimea'. It now becomes 'will Putin be willing to see his life's work political edifice inside Russia topple'? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.

    Replies: @LatW

  545. @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.
     
    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don't have to follow the Bible's texts. It's not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market "Christianity" to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).


    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again
     
    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be "heavenly Jerusalem"), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.


    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg


    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists
     
    Sure, Jesus says "not one stone will be left on another " (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    -

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    https://i.imgur.com/uvf2rG4.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    To me, Jesus obviously expected to establish a physical kingdom, based in Jerusalem, with himself as its leader. He did not expect to get killed in the process.

    I’m not saying you can’t interpret his words differently but that is the most straightforward understanding of what he said and is certainly how the people he was speaking to understood it.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
  546. @AP
    @Sean


    but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.
     
    Putin dramatically underestimated Ukrainian resolve which led to him falsely expecting a quick win.

    One can expect ignorant Western Russian fanboys like Beckow to think that Ukrainians would give up their country quickly, but it is surprising that Putin who had intelligence people all over Ukraine would make such a major miscalculation.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Sean

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks. And both US and UK intelligence expected the Soviet Union to last only a few months against Nazi Germany.

    Anyway, back to the war itself: the Western media is clearly prepping their audience for a massive Russian offensive. Sounds like sometime within the next 10 days. But I suspect that Putin is again overplaying his hand and we are going to get an Operation Michael situation where Russia makes impressive gains that it proves unable to hold while suffering crippling losses to its offensive capabilities. Only after this offensive fails will Putin maybe be willing to consider an armistice. Right now he seems to believe he’s winning

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William


    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks.
     
    What are the chances that the CIA expected this because they knew of Russia's extreme confidence and never imagined that the Russians were as utterly inept at estimating their own capabilities as they have been proven to be?
    , @Philip Owen
    @Greasy William

    Newly trained Saratov mobiks are on two weeks leave which lasts another week, then Ukraine.

    , @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Michael failed because they overran thinned out British positions. Grandad was a machine-gunner in the battle and got captured. He thought in retrospect that Haig had deliberately thinned out the line of soldiers keeping reserves in Amiens. The British depots were full of chocolate, tobacco, booze, beef and the starving Germans spend a lot of time plundering the lavish dugouts. Do the Ukies have any goodies still? Is there a washing machine gap these days?

    The Ukies could leave copious Hennessey, Mercedes and Gucci as bait for the deprived Russkies.

  547. @AP
    @Sean


    but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.
     
    Putin dramatically underestimated Ukrainian resolve which led to him falsely expecting a quick win.

    One can expect ignorant Western Russian fanboys like Beckow to think that Ukrainians would give up their country quickly, but it is surprising that Putin who had intelligence people all over Ukraine would make such a major miscalculation.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Sean

    So what do you think Putin now believes vis a vis Ukrainians?

  548. @Yevardian
    @Ivashka the fool


    If we add Armenians, Tatars, Ukrainians, DICh folks, and even the exotic Uralic tribal people such as Mansi (Sobyanin) and nearly extinct Ugric ethnic groups such as Tver’ Korela (Putin) we can easily see that ethnic Russians with Russian ancestry only, are a minority in the circles of power. RusFed elites are way more “ethnically heterogeneous” than the citizens whom they lord upon.
     
    With the very partial exception of Armenians, the participation of all these groups within the elite managerial class of the Russian Federation is contigent on them giving up their ethnic identity in all but name.
    Prominence of people like Shoigu, Sobyanin and Kadyrov notwithstanding, the living standard of the majority non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    Another unexpected conclusion of the researchers:
    “Almost the only long-term ruler (in the post-USSR) who can be called anti-elite and non-systemic in relation to the Soviet nomenklatura was and remains A. Lukashenko.”
     
    In other news, the sky is blue.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Dmitry

    If I remember from our previous discussions, idiosyncrasy of Bashibuzuk/Anon4’s viewpoint, is to see nationality as the most important variable in politics, while trying to balance this with need to reduce responsibility of Russians, for the “not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government” (imperialism, corruption, etc).

    This can be partly explained as to save the ego (“influence of nonslavic nationalities, including the older Russian nationalities that was here before the immigration of slavs, are responsible for the problems”) which conveniently matches to self-identity of the person writing the post, but it also has optimistic side, because it implies the problems could be theoretically easy to solve by replacing multinational clans to mononational clans (where my view can be actually feeling more depressing and pessimistic in the implications)*.

    There is true, the government is a multinational clan system and there is “not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government” of the last centuries, to say it mildly.

    There is possibility to argue that nationalism, which would include disengagement from nonrussian territory, could allow more preconditions for the development of the modern European nation state which perhaps might not have the imperialist priority as such build in feature (the multinational clan system can perhaps seem to include imperialism as almost systematic feature). There were examples of the 19th century, where use of nationalism has resulted in modern, republican countries, although usually because those were liberated from the occupation of foreign empires.

    However, in the postsoviet space, there are countries with mononational clan system, which are including “not always completely optimal decisions”. For example, elites of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Moldova, Armenia, are not necessarily less exploiting, than the multinational elite of the Russian Federation.

    Armenia is ruled by mononational Armenian clans, but I’m not sure the mononational Armenian clans will be exploiting less their own people, than the multinational clans in Moscow. Their behavior seems quite similar, with Ferraris in the centre of Yerevan and bank accounts in Switzerland.

    Outside postsoviet space, there are many countries ruled by mononational clans, with some similar government trends as the multinational Russian Federation. Mexico, China, Colombia, Turkey, Philippines, etc.

    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation. There was an earthquake in Turkey, where the inadequate investment in buildings that follow seismic codes, can be responsible for now tens of thousands of deaths of Turkish civilians. AKP didn’t require an Armenian external minister and propagandist, to fail with the seismic codes. Turkey’s mononational clans were apparently sufficient for the failure of disaster preparation in Turkey.

    There are examples of effective governments, in multinational ruled countries like Switzerland or Singapore, which would have the most successful disaster preparation or economic attainment. Or there can be mononational ruled countries, with the same nationality, like North or South Korea,** producing opposite kinds of governments because of different historical path.

    In the Venn diagram, Switzerland and Lebanon, are sharing the division across the three nationalities. But in terms of diagram with spectrum of the quality of the government Switzerland and Lebanon will be opposite sides of the diagram. Multinational Bermuda is utopia from island examples, but multinational Sri Lanka has been dystopia.

    I guess nationality topic (like religion, resources, geography) is one important for understanding the situation (including sometimes problems, wars, disaster) of some countries, globally it is not necessarily the variable which determines the desirable or undesirable results, e.g. difference between Singapore and Kyrgyzstan cannot be explained by the variable of their level of multinationality, which is about the same.


    * I think the problem in postsoviet is often “clans”. In Russia, there is the feature of their multinational collaboration, but in other postsoviet countries there are mononational versions of the clan system which feel very similar. In the postsoviet space, there are also the example of the Baltic countries which can reduce the “postsoviet clan system” since the 1990s.

    ** Similarity of peoples is not exactly recipe for peace, as historically more related people often kill each other more, than distant peoples. So, for Russia, the border with China is more peaceful than border with Ukraine. But for Azerbaijan, it is more peaceful with Russia, than with Armenians. And the border of Russia with North Korea, is more peaceful than the border of North Korea with South Korea.

    non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).

    The local nationalities in Russia will dissolve and become Russian, unless nationalism will become accepted it might be possible to save e.g. Tatars as a semi-real nationality (it’s already mostly dissolved). But there are many immigrants from Caucasian and Central Asian nationalities which will not dissolve, but can more change the demographics of parts of cities, politically correct way to talk about them now translates as “the Southerners”.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation.
     
    No offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there, but with real ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia). And, of course, it would still be important to have a local class of the wealthy, and a large middle class.

    The only question would be how much land would be retained (it's probably not wise to give up too much land and resources).

    Replies: @Dmitry

  549. @AP
    @LatW

    Here is Budanov with his wife, outside an Orthodox Church:

    https://ukrainky.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/marianna-budanova-1-690x1024.jpeg

    Replies: @LatW

    I know… so cute. She is so tiny, yet she must be such a strong woman inside. She has already been through so much – there was an assassination attempt on him, and they haven’t really seen much peace together because he was sent to war during the very first days of ATO. She volunteered at a military hospital where she helped take care of the wounded. And then survived a missile strike together with пане Kyrylo.

    From when her husband was wounded:

    “I remember when my husband was in surgery for nine hours after a heavy injury. At that moment I received support from the guys whom I had myself helped before. It got so etched in my memory that even after 40 years I will still remember this display of humanity”.

    She’s also quite patriotic and has those same big dreams that we all do:

    “After our victory, I wish for Ukraine to become a new geo-strategic center of Europe. At the first stage, a leader of Eastern Europe, but later – a powerful European continental country in all aspects.
    We have to move from objectivity to subjectivity. We proved our right to our own identity and sovereignty. Of course, this will not happen in a year, two or five. However, the whole world must know that Ukraine is a powerful state to be reckoned with.”

  550. @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.
     
    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don't have to follow the Bible's texts. It's not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market "Christianity" to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).


    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again
     
    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be "heavenly Jerusalem"), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.


    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg


    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists
     
    Sure, Jesus says "not one stone will be left on another " (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    -

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    https://i.imgur.com/uvf2rG4.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be “heavenly Jerusalem”), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.

    ” Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.”

    In Revelation, New Jerusalem descends from Heaven, which implies it is extra-natural occurrence after or during some apocalyptic event on par with Noah’s flood which will remove seas. How this can be implied to mean “Palestine in the 20th century” is beyond me. It will be also a return to Eden, to to say, to dwelling together with God. Gentiles will not be there – thus the obsession of Christian Judaizers to become “adopted” Jews (eg. British Israel, Mormons etc.)

    Probably, it implies the arrival of some extra-terrestrial civilization, and extraction of the chosen Jews into space, at least temporarily. New Jerusalem of Revelation could be very well a spaceship – it is all metallic at least. That scientologists did not jump upon it probably means that they know they won’t be invited inside (as many many others). Unfortunately, Maimonides-interpretation of Bible which claims that all events in the Bible are natural events, has spread over the official Bible interpretation. Nevertheless, two years ago Pope Francis said that it is very likely that “beings exist in Universe in full communion with God”.

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple.

    Most likely it means “generation” in the sense of the generation after the Flood, or after Noah. Nevertheless, since some believe Gospels were written post 70 AD, the Temple prophecy could be inserted post factum to make Gospels more credible. The Temple Prophecy is not present in Revelation of St John or other Apocalypses (also apocryphic ones).

    As for gathering of Jews in earlier prophecies of OT, it probably already happened. In fact, Jews lived in Poland for circa 1000 years, so that could be very well Revelation’s 1000 years-reign of Christ, especially as people living there are described as “priests of God” which corresponds to the OT description of Jews as “nations of priests”. Remember that Revelation is Judeochristian document about Jews/Ebionites/Qumranites/Judeochristians and taken as a whole, seems to be more authentic that Gospels in their entirety (well, no other text has 4 versions in the Bible).

    This 1000-years passage is also very troubling for detecting the End Times but at least gives credibility to my earlier claim that Apocalypse is a years-long event which started a long time ago, maybe even in 70 AD..

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In Warsaw the main street is called "Jerusalem Alley". This is very unusual for a city outside Israel, since otherwise it is almost always Zion, whose identification with Jerusalem is kind of doubtful - otherwise it wouldn't be inside such a gnostic movie like Matrix (but not Jerusalem). You can also judge from this movie that obsession with Messiah doctrine is perhaps not strictly Jahwist, since it is obsession about the narrow bloodline of repeated offenders and converts (aka Davidic line) and thus perhaps belongs to the competing ideology.

  551. Q&A Series with Bhai Amritpal Singh currently leading a mobilization against India & Pakistan.

    Topics covered include migration, feminism, law & order from a legalist, moral & communal POV
    etc.

    Very good Imo.

    [MORE]


    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  552. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    You are correct to point this out (Russian ethnonats talk about this a lot and I sympathize with them - but they also support a Russian monostate), however, all of these people who are in charge in RusFed, have largely assimilated. Putin might be a Veps but he speaks Russian (not his native Veps language) and he identifies as Russian and is identified as such by the Russian people. In some ways, he pushes the Russian interests, in some ways not.

    Similar to my own people, when they are imbued into the Russian government system they become die-hard imperialist Russians (maybe too much so and maybe that could be a problem, since they are not organic to that nation?) and, of course, screw their own.

    So hard to say to what extent this is all rule by foreigners or other ethnies (at least this day and age).

    The bigger question of course is why is this so... when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?

    Some Caucasians sometimes push their agenda, like the ones in commerce and such as the one Kadyrov, but he is sort of "kept" anyway.

    Did you notice how they opened another monument to Iosif Visarionovich in Volgograd on the eve of Putin's visit...? I mean, wow. Does this ever end?

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Ivashka the fool

    bigger question of course is why is this so

    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries – answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.

    It’s interesting Bashibuzuk posts a photo of Saint-Petersburg, which I also like more, but to return to the topic of politics, this is a city of ideals i.e. more disguising than showing the political reality. But the explanation of the politics, is more undisguised in Moscow and I think most people understand it there.

    We could give any unsampled dreamers like e.g. AaronB with a blindfold and very high dose of psilocybin. Throw him in parachute above Moscow. Allow him for a few days to hallucinogenic confused exploration of the urban design of the city using his “third eye”. Walk around Kremlin’s walls and feel the power not accessible but above you. And after all, he would probably be able to feel some of the political system.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries – answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.
     
    Of course, I know why this is so (it was a rhetorical question). The RusFed, still to this day, is a somewhat of an empire (a federation that still retains some of the marks of the old empire). And in an empire, technically, everyone is a citizen and everyone has to be appeased and given a seat at the table. As a citizen, they can crawl to the top, if they feel like it. When they crawl to the top, they are supposed to abandon the interests of their original ethny. (This may not always apply to the Jewish people, as they are a special case).

    For example, in the European Commission, too, a bureaucrat works for all Europeans, not his nation specifically. And his work may or may not help his home nation.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  553. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be “heavenly Jerusalem”), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.
     
    " Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

    In Revelation, New Jerusalem descends from Heaven, which implies it is extra-natural occurrence after or during some apocalyptic event on par with Noah's flood which will remove seas. How this can be implied to mean "Palestine in the 20th century" is beyond me. It will be also a return to Eden, to to say, to dwelling together with God. Gentiles will not be there - thus the obsession of Christian Judaizers to become "adopted" Jews (eg. British Israel, Mormons etc.)

    Probably, it implies the arrival of some extra-terrestrial civilization, and extraction of the chosen Jews into space, at least temporarily. New Jerusalem of Revelation could be very well a spaceship - it is all metallic at least. That scientologists did not jump upon it probably means that they know they won't be invited inside (as many many others). Unfortunately, Maimonides-interpretation of Bible which claims that all events in the Bible are natural events, has spread over the official Bible interpretation. Nevertheless, two years ago Pope Francis said that it is very likely that "beings exist in Universe in full communion with God".


    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple.
     
    Most likely it means "generation" in the sense of the generation after the Flood, or after Noah. Nevertheless, since some believe Gospels were written post 70 AD, the Temple prophecy could be inserted post factum to make Gospels more credible. The Temple Prophecy is not present in Revelation of St John or other Apocalypses (also apocryphic ones).

    As for gathering of Jews in earlier prophecies of OT, it probably already happened. In fact, Jews lived in Poland for circa 1000 years, so that could be very well Revelation's 1000 years-reign of Christ, especially as people living there are described as "priests of God" which corresponds to the OT description of Jews as "nations of priests". Remember that Revelation is Judeochristian document about Jews/Ebionites/Qumranites/Judeochristians and taken as a whole, seems to be more authentic that Gospels in their entirety (well, no other text has 4 versions in the Bible).

    This 1000-years passage is also very troubling for detecting the End Times but at least gives credibility to my earlier claim that Apocalypse is a years-long event which started a long time ago, maybe even in 70 AD..

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    In Warsaw the main street is called “Jerusalem Alley”. This is very unusual for a city outside Israel, since otherwise it is almost always Zion, whose identification with Jerusalem is kind of doubtful – otherwise it wouldn’t be inside such a gnostic movie like Matrix (but not Jerusalem). You can also judge from this movie that obsession with Messiah doctrine is perhaps not strictly Jahwist, since it is obsession about the narrow bloodline of repeated offenders and converts (aka Davidic line) and thus perhaps belongs to the competing ideology.

  554. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian

    If I remember from our previous discussions, idiosyncrasy of Bashibuzuk/Anon4's viewpoint, is to see nationality as the most important variable in politics, while trying to balance this with need to reduce responsibility of Russians, for the "not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government" (imperialism, corruption, etc).

    This can be partly explained as to save the ego ("influence of nonslavic nationalities, including the older Russian nationalities that was here before the immigration of slavs, are responsible for the problems") which conveniently matches to self-identity of the person writing the post, but it also has optimistic side, because it implies the problems could be theoretically easy to solve by replacing multinational clans to mononational clans (where my view can be actually feeling more depressing and pessimistic in the implications)*.

    There is true, the government is a multinational clan system and there is "not always completely optimal decision of the Russian government" of the last centuries, to say it mildly.

    There is possibility to argue that nationalism, which would include disengagement from nonrussian territory, could allow more preconditions for the development of the modern European nation state which perhaps might not have the imperialist priority as such build in feature (the multinational clan system can perhaps seem to include imperialism as almost systematic feature). There were examples of the 19th century, where use of nationalism has resulted in modern, republican countries, although usually because those were liberated from the occupation of foreign empires.

    However, in the postsoviet space, there are countries with mononational clan system, which are including "not always completely optimal decisions". For example, elites of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Moldova, Armenia, are not necessarily less exploiting, than the multinational elite of the Russian Federation.

    Armenia is ruled by mononational Armenian clans, but I'm not sure the mononational Armenian clans will be exploiting less their own people, than the multinational clans in Moscow. Their behavior seems quite similar, with Ferraris in the centre of Yerevan and bank accounts in Switzerland.

    Outside postsoviet space, there are many countries ruled by mononational clans, with some similar government trends as the multinational Russian Federation. Mexico, China, Colombia, Turkey, Philippines, etc.

    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation. There was an earthquake in Turkey, where the inadequate investment in buildings that follow seismic codes, can be responsible for now tens of thousands of deaths of Turkish civilians. AKP didn't require an Armenian external minister and propagandist, to fail with the seismic codes. Turkey's mononational clans were apparently sufficient for the failure of disaster preparation in Turkey.

    There are examples of effective governments, in multinational ruled countries like Switzerland or Singapore, which would have the most successful disaster preparation or economic attainment. Or there can be mononational ruled countries, with the same nationality, like North or South Korea,** producing opposite kinds of governments because of different historical path.

    In the Venn diagram, Switzerland and Lebanon, are sharing the division across the three nationalities. But in terms of diagram with spectrum of the quality of the government Switzerland and Lebanon will be opposite sides of the diagram. Multinational Bermuda is utopia from island examples, but multinational Sri Lanka has been dystopia.

    I guess nationality topic (like religion, resources, geography) is one important for understanding the situation (including sometimes problems, wars, disaster) of some countries, globally it is not necessarily the variable which determines the desirable or undesirable results, e.g. difference between Singapore and Kyrgyzstan cannot be explained by the variable of their level of multinationality, which is about the same.

    -
    * I think the problem in postsoviet is often "clans". In Russia, there is the feature of their multinational collaboration, but in other postsoviet countries there are mononational versions of the clan system which feel very similar. In the postsoviet space, there are also the example of the Baltic countries which can reduce the "postsoviet clan system" since the 1990s.

    ** Similarity of peoples is not exactly recipe for peace, as historically more related people often kill each other more, than distant peoples. So, for Russia, the border with China is more peaceful than border with Ukraine. But for Azerbaijan, it is more peaceful with Russia, than with Armenians. And the border of Russia with North Korea, is more peaceful than the border of North Korea with South Korea.


    non-Russian areas of the Federation is almost universally lower, with their languages disappearing (oil-rich Tatarstan is the only major exception I can think of).
     
    The local nationalities in Russia will dissolve and become Russian, unless nationalism will become accepted it might be possible to save e.g. Tatars as a semi-real nationality (it's already mostly dissolved). But there are many immigrants from Caucasian and Central Asian nationalities which will not dissolve, but can more change the demographics of parts of cities, politically correct way to talk about them now translates as "the Southerners".

    Replies: @LatW

    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation.

    No offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there, but with real ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia). And, of course, it would still be important to have a local class of the wealthy, and a large middle class.

    The only question would be how much land would be retained (it’s probably not wise to give up too much land and resources).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there,

     

    If we forget about the Southern countries. Although I would guess the problem in Turkey is also more complicated than idea they have lack of potential because they are Southerners. Turkey had economic development in the last decades using manufacturing, not oil and gas. And in the 16th century were one of the most powerful empires in the world. But this week thousands of people die because construction companies do not follow seismic building codes and Erdogan was investing ten times more money for religious education, than for emergency services.

    If we look at the East Asian countries, which include some of the world's most successful countries now (e.g. Singapore, Japan).

    And then looked at the largest East Asian country, which has mononational (Han) elite clans.

    But the mononational Han elite are behaving according to the stereotype of multinational clans in Russia. It's like they are multinational Russian elite, but they are mononational Han elite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZs2i3Bpxx4
    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What's the cause of this behavior?

    I know people who have families behaving like this and you can imagine there is a special school where they learn this (which was true in some extent, as many learned in the security services). But it is like an emerging property of the complex system that you might not have predicted before seeing the empirical evidence. So, what kinds of things are similar between the China and Russia. The elites are different in terms of their origin, but they are responding to some similar situations in areas like media, property rights, checks and balances.


    ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia).
     
    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers' rights and anti-corruption. The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Reform_Party
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Centre_Party

    It's not to say nationalism would not still be better than the current authorities in Russia, as it's like shaking the broken television. Television is already broken, so even something without especially logical connection to success, can be tried without expectation of success, because anything can be better than the current situation. A national revolution could have some changes that would allow for more solution. But generally expectation of success, wouldn't necessarily be more than the result of nationalism promoted by the elites in Kazakhstan. In Kazakhstan, the elites promote nationalism, but if you talk to Kazakhs, their nationalist elite are not sounding very different than the anti-nationalist elite in Russia.

    If you want to fix the problem, I would open the television, study the circuits, upgrade the transistors - i.e. instead of hoping sentimental feeling would be stronger than the casino in Monaco, it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success. https://www.unafei.or.jp/publications/pdf/RS_No83/No83_17VE_Koh1.pdf

    Although of course, in any solution, it's probably just a romantic dreaming, as most likely future in Russia, will be more decades of government similar to current one. Probably, not so much will be changing.

    Replies: @LatW

  555. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    bigger question of course is why is this so
     
    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries - answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.

    It's interesting Bashibuzuk posts a photo of Saint-Petersburg, which I also like more, but to return to the topic of politics, this is a city of ideals i.e. more disguising than showing the political reality. But the explanation of the politics, is more undisguised in Moscow and I think most people understand it there.

    We could give any unsampled dreamers like e.g. AaronB with a blindfold and very high dose of psilocybin. Throw him in parachute above Moscow. Allow him for a few days to hallucinogenic confused exploration of the urban design of the city using his "third eye". Walk around Kremlin's walls and feel the power not accessible but above you. And after all, he would probably be able to feel some of the political system.

    Replies: @LatW

    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries – answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.

    Of course, I know why this is so (it was a rhetorical question). The RusFed, still to this day, is a somewhat of an empire (a federation that still retains some of the marks of the old empire). And in an empire, technically, everyone is a citizen and everyone has to be appeased and given a seat at the table. As a citizen, they can crawl to the top, if they feel like it. When they crawl to the top, they are supposed to abandon the interests of their original ethny. (This may not always apply to the Jewish people, as they are a special case).

    For example, in the European Commission, too, a bureaucrat works for all Europeans, not his nation specifically. And his work may or may not help his home nation.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    It's a Noviop Empire.

    http://haritonov.wiki/%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BF

  556. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Budanov is rumored to be Gay.
     
    Budanov doesn't act gay and he is married to a cute Ukrainian woman. Your gaydar seems a bit out of whack, a bit too skewed towards Ukrainians lately. :)

    But kudos for the sense of humor.

    Replies: @AP, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    Rumored, doesn’t mean that he is. Anyone could be rumored being Gay, except yours truly. Because as the Russian saying goes :

    • LOL: LatW
  557. @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.
     
    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don't have to follow the Bible's texts. It's not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market "Christianity" to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).


    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again
     
    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be "heavenly Jerusalem"), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.


    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg


    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists
     
    Sure, Jesus says "not one stone will be left on another " (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    -

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    https://i.imgur.com/uvf2rG4.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, last spring I got the Book of Mormon from 3 Mormon pretty girls from USA in Czech Praha. I was pretty shocked that Mormons now turned to (experimental?) 20+ female missionaries strategy. Maybe they got inspired by the “daughters of Moab playing harlots” Biblical fragment – after all, they called one of their cities in Utah – Moab.
    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called “Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife”…?
    Anyway, such a mission is much more approachable and nicer to talk than your usual black-clad, tired, dull Mormon missionaries.
    I do wonder, though, how many converts Mormons get per mission, especially in developed countries, where there are no financial/lifestyle incentives to become a convert.

    I did not yet read “The Book of Mormon” but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT). However, there are quite a few nice, Bible-style pictures to sweeten the reading experience.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called “Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife”…?
     
    This is an old strategy. When I lived out West it was sort of a cliche - becoming Mormon in order to marry a fit, pretty Mormon girl. Another thing was becoming Mormon for business purposes (Mormons are good at business and help their own).
    , @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    how many converts Mormons get per mission,

     

    On the ex-Mormon forum, a lot of missionaries are posting there and it's interesting. Some say they had PTSD for years from the numbers of the rejections. https://tinyurl.com/5d4wpc7x (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here)


    @AP


    (Mormons are good at business and help their own)
     
    Maybe powerful people, but not necessarily for the ordinary people. If you read the ex Mormons' forums, one of the themes is that members were exploited in terms of their money. They are talking about how they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, or their parents become bankrupt, or lose their inheritance, etc.

    They even tithe Africans (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here). https://tinyurl.com/ycyks8c9

    And grandparents (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here)
    https://tinyurl.com/2p9y3vf3

    Sometimes religion can be not so different, than arms dealers, casino business, etc.

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I did not yet read “The Book of Mormon” but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT).
     
    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Once I read the beginning of the Book of Mormon out of curiosity.

    Dull is not how I’d describe it. I am sure they did not mean this, but the Book of Mormon reads like an angry parody of the Bible. Apparently, someone tried to mimic the Bible, but had less talent than the least talented authors of OT chapters (for those who never read it, OT is very uneven: some chapters are excruciatingly dull, the quality of writing in some is at the level of high school student with straight Cs, but some chapters are brilliant both in terms of writing style and content).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

  558. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    You are correct to point this out (Russian ethnonats talk about this a lot and I sympathize with them - but they also support a Russian monostate), however, all of these people who are in charge in RusFed, have largely assimilated. Putin might be a Veps but he speaks Russian (not his native Veps language) and he identifies as Russian and is identified as such by the Russian people. In some ways, he pushes the Russian interests, in some ways not.

    Similar to my own people, when they are imbued into the Russian government system they become die-hard imperialist Russians (maybe too much so and maybe that could be a problem, since they are not organic to that nation?) and, of course, screw their own.

    So hard to say to what extent this is all rule by foreigners or other ethnies (at least this day and age).

    The bigger question of course is why is this so... when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?

    Some Caucasians sometimes push their agenda, like the ones in commerce and such as the one Kadyrov, but he is sort of "kept" anyway.

    Did you notice how they opened another monument to Iosif Visarionovich in Volgograd on the eve of Putin's visit...? I mean, wow. Does this ever end?

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Ivashka the fool

    but they also support a Russian monostate

    The National Democrats want a proportional representation of all the ethnic groups in the political circles. Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens – Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians. Armenians = 1 % of the population – Armenians = 1% of political elites etc.

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics and a complete equality of all citizens before the national law. The same rights for everyone to reside wherever they like in Russia. No ethnic enclaves. No Chechnya for me, but not for thee. No more Apartheid in the Caucasus.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics, not on lobbying or other factors. No more Chechens getting 2 -3 times more subsidies than their Ingush brethren and 5 – 6 times more than ethnic Russian hinterland.

    Once the guaranteed quotas filled for all the ethnic groups on political stage, everything else should be pure meritocracy.

    No more Central Asian immigration, and Certainly no citizenship without being born in Russia.

    That’s what Konstantin Krylov advocated, and this is why they got him judged and condemned for “the article 282” (hateful propaganda).

    The bigger question of course is why is this so…

    Oh that’s easy: it’s an historical tradition. Tsarist Empire already had a cosmopolitan aristocracy that was more than 60% non Russian (with a lot of nobles of German, Tatar, Polish- Lithuanian, Georgian and Maloross descent). And then in USSR, being an ethnic Russian was more trouble than anything else, especially immediately after the revolution, when you got shot for “Great Russian Chauvinism” and “Antisemitism”.

    when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?

    Nobody wants to drop off other ethnic groups, it’s the rootless Noviop who are the problem, not people of other ethnicities. My grandmother’s village near Penza was ethnic Russian, but a few miles away there were Tatar and Mordvin Moksha villages. People lived side by side for generations, they traded and exchanged goods, but they seldomly intermarried before the revolution.

    If the Noviop are kicked out of the positions of power, then everyone would be encouraged to live according to their customs.

    And ethnic Russians would also live the way they’re meant to.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens – Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians.
     
    Yes. In propaganda positions, too, I assume? Same goes for Armenians, right?

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics

     

    Not sure those ethnic republics would be too happy about that, especially given that a lot of those are indigenous populations.

    No Chechnya for me, but not for thee.
     
    It would have to be like the Soviet Union when this was possible. As of now, the Chechens will no longer let you back in. You could only do it by force now and that would create a big mess. You could try to keep them in Chechnya and not let them live in other regions but that is risky since they will feel disfranchized and this would also foster separatism.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics

     

    What about the distribution of natural resources and the revenues derived from the natural resources?

    Those videos you post are nice, but those folks in those videos are self-sufficient and not really urbanized. The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that's the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.

    Btw, after our conversation about the wooden architecture in Vologda, I watched some 1980s documentary about the urbanization of the northern Russian villages during the Soviet days and one could see that even in the 1980s, the people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool

  559. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    I think a lot is determined by geopolitics of land empire and the historical path, which is maybe not a detail answer, but like for most of the countries – answers are not all secret, but in the history textbook.
     
    Of course, I know why this is so (it was a rhetorical question). The RusFed, still to this day, is a somewhat of an empire (a federation that still retains some of the marks of the old empire). And in an empire, technically, everyone is a citizen and everyone has to be appeased and given a seat at the table. As a citizen, they can crawl to the top, if they feel like it. When they crawl to the top, they are supposed to abandon the interests of their original ethny. (This may not always apply to the Jewish people, as they are a special case).

    For example, in the European Commission, too, a bureaucrat works for all Europeans, not his nation specifically. And his work may or may not help his home nation.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  560. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    but they also support a Russian monostate
     
    The National Democrats want a proportional representation of all the ethnic groups in the political circles. Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens - Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians. Armenians = 1 % of the population - Armenians = 1% of political elites etc.

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics and a complete equality of all citizens before the national law. The same rights for everyone to reside wherever they like in Russia. No ethnic enclaves. No Chechnya for me, but not for thee. No more Apartheid in the Caucasus.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics, not on lobbying or other factors. No more Chechens getting 2 -3 times more subsidies than their Ingush brethren and 5 - 6 times more than ethnic Russian hinterland.

    Once the guaranteed quotas filled for all the ethnic groups on political stage, everything else should be pure meritocracy.

    No more Central Asian immigration, and Certainly no citizenship without being born in Russia.

    That's what Konstantin Krylov advocated, and this is why they got him judged and condemned for "the article 282" (hateful propaganda).


    The bigger question of course is why is this so…
     
    Oh that's easy: it's an historical tradition. Tsarist Empire already had a cosmopolitan aristocracy that was more than 60% non Russian (with a lot of nobles of German, Tatar, Polish- Lithuanian, Georgian and Maloross descent). And then in USSR, being an ethnic Russian was more trouble than anything else, especially immediately after the revolution, when you got shot for "Great Russian Chauvinism" and "Antisemitism".

    when you drop off the non-Russian ethnies, what could happen then?
     
    Nobody wants to drop off other ethnic groups, it's the rootless Noviop who are the problem, not people of other ethnicities. My grandmother's village near Penza was ethnic Russian, but a few miles away there were Tatar and Mordvin Moksha villages. People lived side by side for generations, they traded and exchanged goods, but they seldomly intermarried before the revolution.

    If the Noviop are kicked out of the positions of power, then everyone would be encouraged to live according to their customs.

    https://youtu.be/ex2hCQNFQY8

    https://youtu.be/1ADu5c6M1r0

    And ethnic Russians would also live the way they're meant to.

    Replies: @LatW

    Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens – Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians.

    Yes. In propaganda positions, too, I assume? Same goes for Armenians, right?

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics

    Not sure those ethnic republics would be too happy about that, especially given that a lot of those are indigenous populations.

    No Chechnya for me, but not for thee.

    It would have to be like the Soviet Union when this was possible. As of now, the Chechens will no longer let you back in. You could only do it by force now and that would create a big mess. You could try to keep them in Chechnya and not let them live in other regions but that is risky since they will feel disfranchized and this would also foster separatism.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics

    What about the distribution of natural resources and the revenues derived from the natural resources?

    Those videos you post are nice, but those folks in those videos are self-sufficient and not really urbanized. The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that’s the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.

    Btw, after our conversation about the wooden architecture in Vologda, I watched some 1980s documentary about the urbanization of the northern Russian villages during the Soviet days and one could see that even in the 1980s, the people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.
     
    They are the closest one can get to the Old Novgorod the Great. The Novgorodian folks resettled there after the destruction of their republic by Tsar' Ivan. They were not enserfed. And they were often Old Believer. Pyzhikov also wrote that people like these kept a great deal of pagan traditions (perhaps that's why they embroidered kolovrats ?). And they used to have their own distinct dialect very different from central and south Russia:

    https://youtu.be/IHJpdQl-v-U

    (Sounds funny 🙂)

    Replies: @AP

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that’s the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.
     
    Instead of encouraging immigration, better encouraging local families to have as much children as possible.

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people. And also encourage the cooperatives to produce locally instead of importing everything from either West or China.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.

    Yeah and give independence to DICh and Tuva. Remove what's left of ethnic Russian populations there and repatriate the ethnics back to their homeland before closing the border.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

  561. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    Well, last spring I got the Book of Mormon from 3 Mormon pretty girls from USA in Czech Praha. I was pretty shocked that Mormons now turned to (experimental?) 20+ female missionaries strategy. Maybe they got inspired by the "daughters of Moab playing harlots" Biblical fragment - after all, they called one of their cities in Utah - Moab.
    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called "Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife"...?
    Anyway, such a mission is much more approachable and nicer to talk than your usual black-clad, tired, dull Mormon missionaries.
    I do wonder, though, how many converts Mormons get per mission, especially in developed countries, where there are no financial/lifestyle incentives to become a convert.

    I did not yet read "The Book of Mormon" but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT). However, there are quite a few nice, Bible-style pictures to sweeten the reading experience.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called “Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife”…?

    This is an old strategy. When I lived out West it was sort of a cliche – becoming Mormon in order to marry a fit, pretty Mormon girl. Another thing was becoming Mormon for business purposes (Mormons are good at business and help their own).

  562. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens – Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians.
     
    Yes. In propaganda positions, too, I assume? Same goes for Armenians, right?

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics

     

    Not sure those ethnic republics would be too happy about that, especially given that a lot of those are indigenous populations.

    No Chechnya for me, but not for thee.
     
    It would have to be like the Soviet Union when this was possible. As of now, the Chechens will no longer let you back in. You could only do it by force now and that would create a big mess. You could try to keep them in Chechnya and not let them live in other regions but that is risky since they will feel disfranchized and this would also foster separatism.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics

     

    What about the distribution of natural resources and the revenues derived from the natural resources?

    Those videos you post are nice, but those folks in those videos are self-sufficient and not really urbanized. The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that's the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.

    Btw, after our conversation about the wooden architecture in Vologda, I watched some 1980s documentary about the urbanization of the northern Russian villages during the Soviet days and one could see that even in the 1980s, the people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool

    people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.

    They are the closest one can get to the Old Novgorod the Great. The Novgorodian folks resettled there after the destruction of their republic by Tsar’ Ivan. They were not enserfed. And they were often Old Believer. Pyzhikov also wrote that people like these kept a great deal of pagan traditions (perhaps that’s why they embroidered kolovrats ?). And they used to have their own distinct dialect very different from central and south Russia:

    (Sounds funny 🙂)

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    This made my wife laugh.

  563. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Jews = 0,5 % of Russian citizens – Jews have 0,5 % elite politicians.
     
    Yes. In propaganda positions, too, I assume? Same goes for Armenians, right?

    They also want the abolition of the ethnic republics

     

    Not sure those ethnic republics would be too happy about that, especially given that a lot of those are indigenous populations.

    No Chechnya for me, but not for thee.
     
    It would have to be like the Soviet Union when this was possible. As of now, the Chechens will no longer let you back in. You could only do it by force now and that would create a big mess. You could try to keep them in Chechnya and not let them live in other regions but that is risky since they will feel disfranchized and this would also foster separatism.

    Same taxation and financial support from the federal regions based only on socio-economic statistics

     

    What about the distribution of natural resources and the revenues derived from the natural resources?

    Those videos you post are nice, but those folks in those videos are self-sufficient and not really urbanized. The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that's the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.

    Btw, after our conversation about the wooden architecture in Vologda, I watched some 1980s documentary about the urbanization of the northern Russian villages during the Soviet days and one could see that even in the 1980s, the people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Ivashka the fool

    The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that’s the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.

    Instead of encouraging immigration, better encouraging local families to have as much children as possible.

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people. And also encourage the cooperatives to produce locally instead of importing everything from either West or China.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.

    Yeah and give independence to DICh and Tuva. Remove what’s left of ethnic Russian populations there and repatriate the ethnics back to their homeland before closing the border.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people.
     
    I agree with all your above points, they make sense. One can even build up new infrastructure, not just give land. Given how much cash Russia has, it's totally possible. One wouldn't even have to go too far from the city.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.
     
    Yea, I had the same idea, that's why I mentioned Norway in my post above.

    From what I know, the National Democrats, at least one of their wings, the National Democrat Alliance (but they are just one faction), actually encouraged the transition from the imperial to national way of thinking. But this movement is quite broad (you have everything from V.Solovey to Krylov to yazichniks).. and unfortunately wasn't able to gain more strength. But it's probably the sanest group for European cooperation (and Russia's future wellbeing). If they weren't persecuted, they could form a decent political alliance. Hopefully, after the war this can be revived with a renewed force.


    Sounds funny 🙂
     
    I would have to practice to pronounce those elongated "o"s instead of "ah", hahaha. There is a political dissident Russian White in LV who talks that way (but I think he learned to do it on purpose, it sounds quite natural).
    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it
     
    But you know there can be a reason (I'm not saying there is, but you know what they like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZIeWCh5K2g).

    Why is the farmer piling chickens in the cage? Why don't they allow chickens to walk free on the fields?

  564. @AP
    @Sean


    but it ought not to have surprised (especially in Ukraine), how Russia saw the Ukraine situation, or that Russia would continue doing what it thought it had to do.
     
    Putin dramatically underestimated Ukrainian resolve which led to him falsely expecting a quick win.

    One can expect ignorant Western Russian fanboys like Beckow to think that Ukrainians would give up their country quickly, but it is surprising that Putin who had intelligence people all over Ukraine would make such a major miscalculation.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Sean

    Maybe it would be better if you started thinking what will happen in the future. It’s clear to me that America is not going to intentionally give Ukraine the arms necessary to do to Russia what the incredibly young (headstong) new Ukrainian minister of defence Kyrylo Budanov says and retake Crimea, which Vlad Vexler says Putin could not survive. But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility. An even better guide to Zelensky’s thinking and the future is his close adviser Mykhailo Podolyak, who says Russia will incur huge casualties and collapse into political anarchy as a result of the next round of offense and counteroffensives. The question has become more than ‘will Putin realising the war is an unwinnable drain on resources, give up his gains in Ukraine including Crimea’. It now becomes ‘will Putin be willing to see his life’s work political edifice inside Russia topple’? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sean


    incredibly young
     
    He is young (and, yes, maybe a bit too young for this post especially given the war, his experience is limited to classified operations and foreign intelligence, it might have been better to look for someone with a longer and more comprehensive experience but he is quite talented) - but he's not incredibly young (he's almost 40) - it only seems that way to you because you live in an extreme gerontocracy. Some East Slavic men mature rather quickly. They are put on track early.

    retake Crimea... But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility.
     
    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it's early to say but why train pilots?).

    It now becomes ‘will Putin be willing to see his life’s work political edifice inside Russia topple’? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.
     
    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military. What would be the point of a single nuclear strike? Russia does not have the troops ready and necessary resources to take over and hold any territory that would be gained through those strikes. But to raise the stakes so high by using the nuclear weapons is very risky for Russia. There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin.

    Replies: @LatW, @Sean

  565. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that’s the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.
     
    Instead of encouraging immigration, better encouraging local families to have as much children as possible.

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people. And also encourage the cooperatives to produce locally instead of importing everything from either West or China.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.

    Yeah and give independence to DICh and Tuva. Remove what's left of ethnic Russian populations there and repatriate the ethnics back to their homeland before closing the border.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people.

    I agree with all your above points, they make sense. One can even build up new infrastructure, not just give land. Given how much cash Russia has, it’s totally possible. One wouldn’t even have to go too far from the city.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.

    Yea, I had the same idea, that’s why I mentioned Norway in my post above.

    From what I know, the National Democrats, at least one of their wings, the National Democrat Alliance (but they are just one faction), actually encouraged the transition from the imperial to national way of thinking. But this movement is quite broad (you have everything from V.Solovey to Krylov to yazichniks).. and unfortunately wasn’t able to gain more strength. But it’s probably the sanest group for European cooperation (and Russia’s future wellbeing). If they weren’t persecuted, they could form a decent political alliance. Hopefully, after the war this can be revived with a renewed force.

    Sounds funny 🙂

    I would have to practice to pronounce those elongated “o”s instead of “ah”, hahaha. There is a political dissident Russian White in LV who talks that way (but I think he learned to do it on purpose, it sounds quite natural).

  566. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    This being said, I would like to have a serious discussion about where it is all heading.

     

    Probably like yourself, I've found it useful to understand the cosmologies of the various peoples involved to get a better grasp of things.

    One important element of the cosmology of the Anglo-Saxons of the Anglosphere is the unfortunate ideology of British Israelism, ie the absurd belief that the people of the British Isles were of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. In the US I've never known of anyone personally to have believed in it, yet clearly there has been an historic influence.



    Below is a brief excerpt and link to an outstanding study of the belief system:

    '...many British-Israelites viewed the Second World War as just a precursor to a war with the Soviet Union which would usher in the Second Coming of Christ and the Millennium.

    http://www.revneal.org/Writings/Writings/british.htm

    Another element of US cosmology is ancient Rome.

    The United States since it's inception has consciously modeled itself upon Rome, ie land carefully chosen to construct Washington DC upon had generations before originally been called 'Rome', complete with it's own Tiber running through it. Many US public buildings are Roman in their design.

    Uncannily, US history itself has point by point closely paralleled that of the original Rome.

    At present, just as Rome transitioned from a Republic to a dictatorship, so too is the United States, and just as Rome had its First Triumvirate consisting of Rome's richest man, the Roman billionaire and real estate speculator Marcus Crassus, the Roman military veteran Pompey, and Crassus's political protege, the up and coming Julius Caesar, the 'New Rome' (the US) has Donald Trump, Pompeo, and Trump's political protege, Jared Kushner.

    In the link below, I explore in depth the close parallels of Rome's First Triumvirate with today's Trump, Pompeo, and Kushner. Pompeo is to announce in the next in the next few months if he is to contest with Trump for the 2024 presidential nomination. Rome's First Triumvirate ultimately devolved into civil war between its members. [Be sure and check under 'More']

    Modern First Triumvirate Parallels With the US

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-195/#comment-5525507

    The potential destruction in WWIII of the New Rome [US] and the Third Rome [Russia], the respective modern day heirs of Rome's Western and Eastern portions, as perceived revenge by elements of the Jewish people for ancient Rome's destruction of the Jewish Temple nearly 2000 years ago.

    WWIII as Revenge upon Rome Hypothesis

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-186-russia-ukraine/#comment-5312664

    The close parallels between Varus's defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the Roman standards and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions, and Custer's defeat at the Little Big Horn by 'barbarian tribes', the loss of the US Calvary 'standards' (guidons), and their later recovery in crushing punitive expeditions.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/#comment-5172335

    Replies: @S

    While the link was working previously the link is broken now for some reason.

    These two links below should work, and if not, it was comment # 207 of the Pepe Escobar thread they connect to, and regards the close parallels between the ancient Roman general Varus’s defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the standards, and their later recovery, and the New Rome’s [US] Custer’s defeat by the ‘barbarian tribes’ at the Little Big Horn, the loss of the US Cavalry ‘standards’ (ie guidons), and their later recovery.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172611

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172335

    • Replies: @S
    @S

    The just previous comment was in regards to this upthread comment:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5802819

    in regards to where all these current events are leading to.

    Oddly, the 2335 comment link reposted up above, now works. While the exact same comment link upthread which had been working fine, had stopped, and still won't link to the original comment.

  567. @S
    @S

    While the link was working previously the link is broken now for some reason.

    These two links below should work, and if not, it was comment # 207 of the Pepe Escobar thread they connect to, and regards the close parallels between the ancient Roman general Varus's defeat in the Teutoburg Forest by the barbarian tribes, the loss of the standards, and their later recovery, and the New Rome's [US] Custer's defeat by the 'barbarian tribes' at the Little Big Horn, the loss of the US Cavalry 'standards' (ie guidons), and their later recovery.




    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172611

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/do-you-want-a-war-between-russia-and-nato/?showcomments#comment-5172335

    Replies: @S

    The just previous comment was in regards to this upthread comment:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5802819

    in regards to where all these current events are leading to.

    Oddly, the 2335 comment link reposted up above, now works. While the exact same comment link upthread which had been working fine, had stopped, and still won’t link to the original comment.

  568. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Turkey, have mononational or monoreligious clans, that can exploit their own people, probably not less than multinational clans in Russia. For example, AKP in Turkey seems similar to United Russia in the Russian Federation.
     
    No offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there, but with real ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia). And, of course, it would still be important to have a local class of the wealthy, and a large middle class.

    The only question would be how much land would be retained (it's probably not wise to give up too much land and resources).

    Replies: @Dmitry

    offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there,

    If we forget about the Southern countries. Although I would guess the problem in Turkey is also more complicated than idea they have lack of potential because they are Southerners. Turkey had economic development in the last decades using manufacturing, not oil and gas. And in the 16th century were one of the most powerful empires in the world. But this week thousands of people die because construction companies do not follow seismic building codes and Erdogan was investing ten times more money for religious education, than for emergency services.

    If we look at the East Asian countries, which include some of the world’s most successful countries now (e.g. Singapore, Japan).

    And then looked at the largest East Asian country, which has mononational (Han) elite clans.

    But the mononational Han elite are behaving according to the stereotype of multinational clans in Russia. It’s like they are multinational Russian elite, but they are mononational Han elite.

    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What’s the cause of this behavior?

    I know people who have families behaving like this and you can imagine there is a special school where they learn this (which was true in some extent, as many learned in the security services). But it is like an emerging property of the complex system that you might not have predicted before seeing the empirical evidence. So, what kinds of things are similar between the China and Russia. The elites are different in terms of their origin, but they are responding to some similar situations in areas like media, property rights, checks and balances.

    ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia).

    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers’ rights and anti-corruption. The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Reform_Party
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Centre_Party

    It’s not to say nationalism would not still be better than the current authorities in Russia, as it’s like shaking the broken television. Television is already broken, so even something without especially logical connection to success, can be tried without expectation of success, because anything can be better than the current situation. A national revolution could have some changes that would allow for more solution. But generally expectation of success, wouldn’t necessarily be more than the result of nationalism promoted by the elites in Kazakhstan. In Kazakhstan, the elites promote nationalism, but if you talk to Kazakhs, their nationalist elite are not sounding very different than the anti-nationalist elite in Russia.

    If you want to fix the problem, I would open the television, study the circuits, upgrade the transistors – i.e. instead of hoping sentimental feeling would be stronger than the casino in Monaco, it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success. https://www.unafei.or.jp/publications/pdf/RS_No83/No83_17VE_Koh1.pdf

    Although of course, in any solution, it’s probably just a romantic dreaming, as most likely future in Russia, will be more decades of government similar to current one. Probably, not so much will be changing.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What’s the cause of this behavior?
     
    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannish. They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.

    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers’ rights and anti-corruption.
     
    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

    The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.
     
    These were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind, and some of these things, such as anti-Sovietism is something that the Russian national democrats would also like.

    it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success.
     
    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  569. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    The more urbanized managerial and ownership class of Russia will want some sort of immigration most likely, since they rely on it. I think that’s the crux of the matter at least re: Central Asian immigration.
     
    Instead of encouraging immigration, better encouraging local families to have as much children as possible.

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it to people. And also encourage the cooperatives to produce locally instead of importing everything from either West or China.

    Finally, about the ressources: do the same thing Norway did with the Government Pension Fund of Norway. And use these moneys to boost pensions, for infrastructure development, healthcare and education.

    Yeah and give independence to DICh and Tuva. Remove what's left of ethnic Russian populations there and repatriate the ethnics back to their homeland before closing the border.

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    Instead of piling up in Moscow encourage people to go back to the land, there is a lot of abandoned agricultural land in Russian hinterland, just give it

    But you know there can be a reason (I’m not saying there is, but you know what they like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZIeWCh5K2g).

    Why is the farmer piling chickens in the cage? Why don’t they allow chickens to walk free on the fields?

  570. @Ivashka the fool
    @Barbarossa

    Kevin McDonald was writing from the point of view of biological psychology, which he saw as a result of different human populations' adaptation to different environments. Basically a psychological take on HBD.

    The ton of letters that Aaron has unloaded on the poor man has nearly nothing to do with his academic work. But hey, that's the way most Jews react to what they see as criticism of their mindset.

    As I wrote previously, Aaron is simply unable to leave his inner Qahal rest despite his humanistic, transcendental, mystical grandstanding. A guy can talk hours about Zen and Dao and then suddenly exhibit an extreme bias when his ethnic identity is presented in an unflattering manner.

    Happens to the best of us...

    🙂



    That being said, The Culture of Critique by K. McDonald is the American equivalent of Russophobia by Igor Shafarevich. Except that Russophobia was written a decade before Culture of Critique. Another notable difference is that Shafarevich was writing post factum after the destruction of the "classic Russian society" by the (Judeo)Bolshevik Revolution, while McDonald was writing during the process of disintegration of the "classic American society" by the critical theory (hence the title).

    He was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite.

    After the publication of his books, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth form the usual corners...

    A good and useful read.

    🙂

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @S

    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite…A good and useful read.

    Thanks for this and your following heartfelt post on the subject.

    Bottom line, and leaving aside all the less than helpful name calling some engage in, the over intellectualizing, and legalism, which is ultimately all besides the point, do European peoples (not to mention non-European peoples as well) have the right of self determination, the right to govern their own affairs, and to not be dominated by an alien minority?

    In that, no matter how well meaning another individual might tell themselves that they are, and may well even sincerely believe, they can not in any healthy manner run another individual’s life, it is the very same dynamic between peoples.

    So, yes, of course European peoples have this right.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @S


    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite…A good and useful read.
     
    Here is Charles Maurras describing something like that:

    What is democratism? A practical man will ask who in France professes this abstract doctrine and, since it reigns, who are the men upon whom its power depends? The most cursory examination of the situation allows one to provide an answer – it is not simply professed by a group of individuals. Individual men would never have been able to find a way to carry out such a tour de force and make its results endure. Consider that the greatest, most ancient and venerable spiritual power on one hand, and on the other, physical force, those who bear the sword, who march with the rifle and those who direct the canons, all are kept at bay and persecuted by a simple set of ideas and institutions – democracy!

    A group of individuals would have weakened, become divided, fallen into arguments and destroyed each other in the course of administering this institution and system. So we are driven to suppose that something else must underpin it, some organisation or group of organisations, specifically historic organisations, physical or psychological families, with a shared will, state of mind and feelings passed down from father to son over long centuries, somewhat like the guilds or dynasties of old.

    Jewish and metic dynasties.

    Foreign dynasties, such as those which fomented the French Revolution.
     

    I think the original text is pre-1914.

    'Metic' here refers mainly to Germans. Maurras often argued that democratic and liberal doctrines were promoted by Judeo-Germanic familial dynasties inside France to expand their power at the expense of the majority.

    In Western Europe after 1945 I think ideas like this became taboo in academia because of the obvious associations. Maurras himself ended up in prison after the war.

    Replies: @S

  571. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    offense to southern countries, there are definitely strong ones out there,

     

    If we forget about the Southern countries. Although I would guess the problem in Turkey is also more complicated than idea they have lack of potential because they are Southerners. Turkey had economic development in the last decades using manufacturing, not oil and gas. And in the 16th century were one of the most powerful empires in the world. But this week thousands of people die because construction companies do not follow seismic building codes and Erdogan was investing ten times more money for religious education, than for emergency services.

    If we look at the East Asian countries, which include some of the world's most successful countries now (e.g. Singapore, Japan).

    And then looked at the largest East Asian country, which has mononational (Han) elite clans.

    But the mononational Han elite are behaving according to the stereotype of multinational clans in Russia. It's like they are multinational Russian elite, but they are mononational Han elite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZs2i3Bpxx4
    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What's the cause of this behavior?

    I know people who have families behaving like this and you can imagine there is a special school where they learn this (which was true in some extent, as many learned in the security services). But it is like an emerging property of the complex system that you might not have predicted before seeing the empirical evidence. So, what kinds of things are similar between the China and Russia. The elites are different in terms of their origin, but they are responding to some similar situations in areas like media, property rights, checks and balances.


    ethnonats in power, Russia, which in its core is a northern country, would probably have a system that is more similar to that of Norway (maybe Finland or Estonia).
     
    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers' rights and anti-corruption. The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Reform_Party
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Centre_Party

    It's not to say nationalism would not still be better than the current authorities in Russia, as it's like shaking the broken television. Television is already broken, so even something without especially logical connection to success, can be tried without expectation of success, because anything can be better than the current situation. A national revolution could have some changes that would allow for more solution. But generally expectation of success, wouldn't necessarily be more than the result of nationalism promoted by the elites in Kazakhstan. In Kazakhstan, the elites promote nationalism, but if you talk to Kazakhs, their nationalist elite are not sounding very different than the anti-nationalist elite in Russia.

    If you want to fix the problem, I would open the television, study the circuits, upgrade the transistors - i.e. instead of hoping sentimental feeling would be stronger than the casino in Monaco, it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success. https://www.unafei.or.jp/publications/pdf/RS_No83/No83_17VE_Koh1.pdf

    Although of course, in any solution, it's probably just a romantic dreaming, as most likely future in Russia, will be more decades of government similar to current one. Probably, not so much will be changing.

    Replies: @LatW

    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What’s the cause of this behavior?

    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannish. They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.

    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers’ rights and anti-corruption.

    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

    The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.

    These were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind, and some of these things, such as anti-Sovietism is something that the Russian national democrats would also like.

    it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success.

    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannis
     
    ?
    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.


    They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.
     
    Murmansk is one of the regions most famous for corruption in Russia especially with the local officials.

    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

     

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.

    I assume most everyone in Estonia is a kind of nationalist, as (I assume?) nationalism is the mainstream of the Estonian society. Estonians are people with a strong nationalism. But it is liberal politicians in Estonia which attained this, and Estonia has liberal rulers since independence. So, perhaps you can say it is a kind of Estonian liberal/nationalist viewpoint.

    Remember, it's not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It's a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

    Just like Erdogan is happy to promote all this romantic Islamist and Ottoman dreams in populist way for his people, but the successful policy for saving the country from earthquake - so tens of thousands of people are not killed under falling buildings, would be depending from pedantic engineers that re-check their calculations.


    were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind,
     
    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

     

    If you look at the corruption ranking by transparency international, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/202

    https://i.imgur.com/XaD7yGK.jpg


    Russia and Brazil are the multinational countries with the low ranking, but overall, the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.

    There is multinational Singapore or Canada which have some of the most anti-corruption. There is mononational China with high corruption.

    -

    If you think about some of the damaging problems in Russia - autocracy, imperialism, corruption.

    The multinational elite is connected with the topic of imperialism and superpower aims. Although I'm not sure I can say what is cause or effect. Does multinational elite cause imperialism, or is multinational elite one of the results of imperialism? Imperialism is possibly more creating the multinationalism, than result of it.

    Reducing multinationalism, could allow the country to reduce the imperialism, which would allow the country to focus more on the internal development, rights of its people. However, this would also require reducing superpower ambitions of the country, which will be difficult for politicians to follow.

    The disaster of postsoviet imperialism is the war with Ukraine. From the Russian side, it is probably not related to the national composition of the elite. Although the view in Russia since Sobchak, has been to predict that cause of conflict in Ukraine, is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence). So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

  572. @Sean
    @AP

    Maybe it would be better if you started thinking what will happen in the future. It's clear to me that America is not going to intentionally give Ukraine the arms necessary to do to Russia what the incredibly young (headstong) new Ukrainian minister of defence Kyrylo Budanov says and retake Crimea, which Vlad Vexler says Putin could not survive. But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility. An even better guide to Zelensky's thinking and the future is his close adviser Mykhailo Podolyak, who says Russia will incur huge casualties and collapse into political anarchy as a result of the next round of offense and counteroffensives. The question has become more than 'will Putin realising the war is an unwinnable drain on resources, give up his gains in Ukraine including Crimea'. It now becomes 'will Putin be willing to see his life's work political edifice inside Russia topple'? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.

    Replies: @LatW

    incredibly young

    He is young (and, yes, maybe a bit too young for this post especially given the war, his experience is limited to classified operations and foreign intelligence, it might have been better to look for someone with a longer and more comprehensive experience but he is quite talented) – but he’s not incredibly young (he’s almost 40) – it only seems that way to you because you live in an extreme gerontocracy. Some East Slavic men mature rather quickly. They are put on track early.

    retake Crimea… But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility.

    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).

    It now becomes ‘will Putin be willing to see his life’s work political edifice inside Russia topple’? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.

    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military. What would be the point of a single nuclear strike? Russia does not have the troops ready and necessary resources to take over and hold any territory that would be gained through those strikes. But to raise the stakes so high by using the nuclear weapons is very risky for Russia. There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW


    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).
     
    And, by the way, Zelensky's visit to London was only the beginning - the foundation has been laid, the next visit for Zelensky is with Scholz and Macron (they will most likely talk about jets), then there is another Ramstein meeting and then the Munich security conference. So eventually, by February 24, the one year anniversary of this horrific war, a final, crucial decision could be made to help Ukraine finish this.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Sean, @LondonBob

    , @Sean
    @LatW


    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.
     
    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin's point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option

    The doctrine on nuclear use never envisioned such a situation as Russia losing a conventional war against a medium sized non-Nato country and resorting to a nuclear strike as a specimen of its resolve to hold on to conquered territory. All the scenarios worked out and examined by Washington for decades are about a totally opposite situation (one in which Russia is advancing conventionally after attacking a Nato member country)..


    I don't think the US is so sanguine about conventionally clobbering a Russia that had already used nuclear weapons and was conventionally exhausted and being driven back. Were America to try and do that the problem would be Russian fragility as they see it and the US imperfect knowledge of at what point Russia might begin to overdramatise their quandary.


    There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin
     
    And then surrender Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine before telling all the constituent republics of RusFed to become sovereign states if they want to?

    https://odessa-journal.com/mykhailo-podolyak-after-the-defeat-in-ukraine-the-ethnic-republics-of-the-russian-federation-will-begin-to-present-ultimatum-demands-to-the-kremlin/

    After the defeat in Ukraine, transformations will begin in Russia associated with partially restoring the sovereign rights of ethnic communities. This process is inevitable.

    Mikhail Podolyak, the adviser to the head of the President’s Office, expressed confidence in this, noting that Russia would suffer several more tactical defeats in Ukraine and, in any case, would be thrown back beyond internationally recognized borders. After that, the ethnic republics of the Russian Federation would begin to present ultimatum demands to the Kremlin:

    “This is an objective historical process, and Russia will go through this process. This will be one of the obligatory consequences of the war. And somewhere inside Russia, this is already beginning to emerge … It is clear that some time must still pass and Russia’s defeats must occur on those or other destinations in Ukraine”.
     
    Podolyak (and his patron Zelensky) are making a mistake the virtual mirror image of Putin's error--"Ukraine is not a real country". They think RusFed is a patchwork that will come apart under stress while you think the Russian Armed Forces will refuse to obey a proper chain of command order to use a nuclear weapon on Ukraine's Armed Forces. If they got such an order right now they might question it, or ask to see it in writing signed by the commanding generals, but by summer if the war takes the turn the the retired German Brigadier Erich Vad predicts of Western weapons inexorably making the Russian positions in Ukraine untenable I think they will be ready.

    Replies: @A123, @AP

  573. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    Well, last spring I got the Book of Mormon from 3 Mormon pretty girls from USA in Czech Praha. I was pretty shocked that Mormons now turned to (experimental?) 20+ female missionaries strategy. Maybe they got inspired by the "daughters of Moab playing harlots" Biblical fragment - after all, they called one of their cities in Utah - Moab.
    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called "Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife"...?
    Anyway, such a mission is much more approachable and nicer to talk than your usual black-clad, tired, dull Mormon missionaries.
    I do wonder, though, how many converts Mormons get per mission, especially in developed countries, where there are no financial/lifestyle incentives to become a convert.

    I did not yet read "The Book of Mormon" but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT). However, there are quite a few nice, Bible-style pictures to sweeten the reading experience.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

    how many converts Mormons get per mission,

    On the ex-Mormon forum, a lot of missionaries are posting there and it’s interesting. Some say they had PTSD for years from the numbers of the rejections. https://tinyurl.com/5d4wpc7x (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here)

    (Mormons are good at business and help their own)

    Maybe powerful people, but not necessarily for the ordinary people. If you read the ex Mormons’ forums, one of the themes is that members were exploited in terms of their money. They are talking about how they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars, or their parents become bankrupt, or lose their inheritance, etc.

    They even tithe Africans (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here). https://tinyurl.com/ycyks8c9

    And grandparents (tinyurl to Reddit, because the Reddit links are not allowed here)
    https://tinyurl.com/2p9y3vf3

    Sometimes religion can be not so different, than arms dealers, casino business, etc.

  574. @Greasy William
    @AP

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks. And both US and UK intelligence expected the Soviet Union to last only a few months against Nazi Germany.

    Anyway, back to the war itself: the Western media is clearly prepping their audience for a massive Russian offensive. Sounds like sometime within the next 10 days. But I suspect that Putin is again overplaying his hand and we are going to get an Operation Michael situation where Russia makes impressive gains that it proves unable to hold while suffering crippling losses to its offensive capabilities. Only after this offensive fails will Putin maybe be willing to consider an armistice. Right now he seems to believe he's winning

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Philip Owen, @Wokechoke

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks.

    What are the chances that the CIA expected this because they knew of Russia’s extreme confidence and never imagined that the Russians were as utterly inept at estimating their own capabilities as they have been proven to be?

  575. @AP
    @Beckow


    You are mis-reading the mood: if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming
     
    The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating. So?

    What a typically stupid argument. All sorts of communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat. So should he not have been resisted by decent people also? We know your people’s approach, of course.

    I don’t know when and how, but when it is over, very few of today’s mad-world-liberals will own up to this silly circus…just like our Unz resident Kiev fire-eaters (AP? Mr. Hacks?) they will scuttle away not to be heard from again…
     
    As a natural lackey and servant you can’t imagine that someone would support or be proud of defending one’s nation’s independence even if doing so results in failure. Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939, Serbs aren’t ashamed of losing their hopeless war against the Turks at that famous battle. But you would be, you see those losses as failed opportunities to join up with and be the invaders’ faithful lackey. As your Slovakia was Hitler’s loyal servant during World War II.

    And before you twist the meaning of my comment - no, I am neither predicting nor expecting Ukraine’s defeat. I still think it will likely end up being a stalemate roughly along current lines (Russia may even eventually take Bakhmut, and 6 months later perhaps Kramatorsk), albeit with a real possibility of Ukraine taking back the Crimean corridor.

    You might have to spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost (though most will be retained). But the majority of Ukraine will stay free, will be completely de-Russified, and will join its Polish brothers. It will be lost to Russia forever.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating

    It would be buried in an avalanche of rainbows…

    communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat

    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down, almost by themselves, of course they celebrated. You are either a Nazi or so badly educated that you think Normandy June 1944!!! won the war. You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it…you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles :)…

    And you talk about falsifying history and propaganda…the precious infantilism of the Western retards…

    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939…Serbs…

    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans, so this is not really about shame. They got clobbered because they chose badly – offered to Nazis to attack Russia together, joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia, waited for the saintly Anglos to save them. Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks and proceeded to murder millions of Poles. Of course, Poles can’t remember that – too politically inconvenient – and are working on convincing the world that it was all Russia’s fault. Go figure, they may get clobbered again with this level of historical stupidity

    The Serbs are probably more concerned with the more recent Nato bombing (“shock-and-awe” in the middle of Europe) than with medieval history. But that is another event you prefer to lie about.

    ….spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost…

    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure – it is generally considered a defeat. Maybe a small defeat, or medium, but still a defeat. I am still waiting for a scenario that could be considered a Ukie win – taking back Crimean corridor and Azov would count – is it going to happen?

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony? Get real, people don’t care for your blood-soaked myths, it will be quickly forgotten, failed heroism is rather awkward to celebrate…where is the win that you are hoping for?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Beckow

    The Ukies seem cock-a-hoop about their chances.

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    “communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat”

    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down
     
    Indeed they did. And not only them. The biggest winners of all were the Americans.

    You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it
     
    I just stated that just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler, doesn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate it either, you liar.

    Similarly, rainbow flag celebrations over a Russian loss didn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate also.

    you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles
     
    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.

    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939…Serbs…

    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans
     
    Yes. The consequence of not being a lackey and willing servant to the Germans, like your people were.

    They got clobbered because they chose badly

     

    Yes, the natural lackey whose people were among the most enthusiastic of Germany’s allies thinks the Poles who refused German alliances and instead fought the Germans, “chose badly.”

    offered to Nazis to attack Russia together

     

    A lie, and even more stupid than your usual ones. You are claiming the Germans murdered millions of Poles because the Poles offered to be the Germans’ allies?

    Germany signed a nonaggression treaty with Germany in which each side refused to attack the other, but refused all German offers of an alliance. In contrast to your Slovakia, an eager ally that even paid with its own money for the extermination of its Jews.

    joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia
     
    Separate and non coordinated actions, unlike joint German and Soviet invasion of Poland.

    Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks
     
    Another lie. Warsaw was taken in 4 weeks and the country was occupied in 5-6.

    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure – it is generally considered a defeat
     
    It depends on the aim. Russia’s aim was keep Donbas and Crimea, and to turn Ukraine into a demilitarized non-independent puppet state, Ukraine’s to avoid that fate. If Ukraine loses 15% of its territory (16% if/when Russia takes Bakhmut) but is free to pursue total de-Russification of the rest, to join the EU, and to have a powerful military than it is at least a draw.

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony
     
    You are really desperate if you compare the total occupation and division of Germany to the loss of the Crimean corridor.

    Replies: @Beckow

  576. @LatW
    @Sean


    incredibly young
     
    He is young (and, yes, maybe a bit too young for this post especially given the war, his experience is limited to classified operations and foreign intelligence, it might have been better to look for someone with a longer and more comprehensive experience but he is quite talented) - but he's not incredibly young (he's almost 40) - it only seems that way to you because you live in an extreme gerontocracy. Some East Slavic men mature rather quickly. They are put on track early.

    retake Crimea... But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility.
     
    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it's early to say but why train pilots?).

    It now becomes ‘will Putin be willing to see his life’s work political edifice inside Russia topple’? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.
     
    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military. What would be the point of a single nuclear strike? Russia does not have the troops ready and necessary resources to take over and hold any territory that would be gained through those strikes. But to raise the stakes so high by using the nuclear weapons is very risky for Russia. There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin.

    Replies: @LatW, @Sean

    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).

    And, by the way, Zelensky’s visit to London was only the beginning – the foundation has been laid, the next visit for Zelensky is with Scholz and Macron (they will most likely talk about jets), then there is another Ramstein meeting and then the Munich security conference. So eventually, by February 24, the one year anniversary of this horrific war, a final, crucial decision could be made to help Ukraine finish this.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @LatW

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Please tell me you are not serious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @AP

    , @Sean
    @LatW

    All depends what you mean by Ukraine getting a 'win'. Halt the Russian advance and attrite the Russians until they realise their effort is futile and ask for an agreement freezing the front lines? Forcibly retake the land in the South and Donbass occupied post Feb 2022? Make remaining in Crimea untenable for Russia? Inflict so many KIA sons on Russian soldiers' families that Putin gets overthrown by popular unrest and Russia breaks up?

    Ukraine will try to attain the latter outcomes. The West won't knowingly help them achieve those, but Ukraine might just be able to do it anyway. Big if, but if Ukraine was getting the kind of victory they aspire to then I think Putin would use nukes on the Ukrainian army. Theatre thermonuclear weapons' as unignorable hybrid warfare; the US led Nato alliance would not have been attacked yet it would still have to do something, but what would they dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?

    There would be uncertainty and fear of overdoing it and panicking the Kremlin, not without good reason! In my opinion the greatest asset of Russia in deterring the West is Russia's fragility. An endgame without a Russian rout and resort to desperate measures short of an attack on Nato forces but presenting them with a challenge will be very tricky to avoid because things speed up towards the end, in war as so many things. Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger. Is Nato willing to directly enter conventional combat, limited but nevertheless actual, against Russian forces if Russia gets so desperate it nukes the Ukrainian army?

    , @LondonBob
    @LatW

    Wunderwaffe de jour, will have as much impact as the Switchblade did. Reality is when the false flag missile hit Poland even the Judeo-Hibernian junta blinked, a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

  577. https://rananim.substack.com/

    A great little blog utilizing the writings of DH Lawrence to oppose the Machine and the death cult of modernity and urge a return to Life. Strongly recommend.

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  578. @Dmitry
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Mormons – who, according to themselves – are also “Israel”, this part got right, and gathered in Utah. Utah is not Canaan.
     
    Mormonism is similar to the Religious Zionism and wanted to create the state of Deseret and gather for apocalypse (which every Mormon family is supposed to store food to prepare for).

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don't have to follow the Bible's texts. It's not Christianity or Judaism. But a new 19th century religion, that has tried to market "Christianity" to be less politically unaccepted in the mainstream American society they believe is persecuting them (also because it is building market share from the Christians).


    Jews IN THE LAND OF CANAAN again
     
    It implies in Jerusalem (although this can have physical or symbolic interpretation, like in many Church fathers this would be "heavenly Jerusalem"), who will be gentiles will be a different interpretation . I.e. Gentiles would usually be interpreted as the non-Christians historically, or for Martin Luther e.g. it will include followers of the Pope.


    https://i.imgur.com/jBT7ypR.jpg


    since the Wailing Wall stands, the Temple cannot be said to have been fully destroyed, thus it still exists
     
    Sure, Jesus says "not one stone will be left on another " (Luke 21:6).

    But a lot of the stones of the Second Temple are still on another, in the same position as before the destruction of the Temple.

    Second Temple complex still has many stones in the original position.

    Although this seems pedantic criticism of the prophecy.

    -

    I feel this main problem with the prophecy is Jesus said, it will be within the generation which sees the destruction of the Temple. So, if it was the destruction of the Second Temple, it should be within decades from 70 AD.

    https://i.imgur.com/uvf2rG4.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    But remember, Mormons are using different texts written by Joseph Smith, they are a religion which is using some of the people in the Abrahamic texts and personalities, but it is a completely new religion as they don’t have to follow the Bible’s texts.

    I just took in my hand my copy of the Book of Mormon, a book which luckily has the subject index full of cross-references (very useful thing when studying religious texts, always get a copy with such an index)…
    and the Biblical Book Of Isaiah is the most heavily referenced of all the Biblical books, another one is Mark’s Gospel.

    So they do follow Biblical text in some way, at least some books.

    Actually, they seem to accept the Bible in its entirety:

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures?lang=eng

  579. I’ve been reading Charles Dickens lately, and it’s been a wonderful experience – the funny thing is I couldn’t stomach him as a child, because I myself was too “modern”, I now see 🙂

    But Dickens is perhaps the anti-modern writer par excellence. His writing breathes a spirit so opposite to and inimical to the Machine that it’s a wonder he’s still allowed in print – his language is a luxuriant Gothic explosion, his characters are rich eccentrics and grotesques, odd and unexpected incidents and remarks abound, a rich sense of the absurd and the ridiculous create an atmosphere that has been described as “comic”, but is really much more significant than that – it is a revolt against the bland uniformity of Machine life in favor of the irreducibly rich quiddity of human life.

    And there is a “sentimentality” that was much derided in the emerging hardness and “realism” of the early 20th century but can now be fully appreciated for what it is – Love, and kindness, and generosity.

    One of the great pleasures our ancestors had but is denied to ours dismal selves is to sink into an armchair on a cold winters evening, before a fire, in a room lit not by electricity but by candlelight, and delve into a thick Dickens novel. Gone are such delights.

    George Orwell, when he moved into his stone farmhouse in that remote Scottish island that he loved, said one of the great pleasures of life is candlelight – and I for one believe him. I’ve taken to reading real paper books by candlelight, especially in winter, and it is such a richer experience. Incidentally, I am a fan of the Kindle – when I travel I can take my entire library with me. But certain books have to be read on old paper, preferably yellowed, preferably by the light of a candle.

    When I was a kid reading fantasy books, some instinct led me to partially cover my bedroom lamp so only the dimmest light could shine through. Somehow I understood that certain things can only truly be appreciated in dimness and shadow.

    Junichiro Tanizaki wrote a wonderful little book on Japanese aesthetics called “In Praise of Shadows”. In it he celebrates the Japanese love of dimly lighted rooms, shadows, obscurity, mist, fog, rain, dark corners, and mysterious distances, among other aspects of Japanese aesthetics – and contrasts it to the harsh bright lights of the emerging Western civilization.

    There is a wonderful little book by a Japanese author of the 1700s called “Tales of Rain and Moonlight” – what a wonderful name – that is a dozen or so tales of the macabre and mysterious. Nothing overly horrific or dramatic, just subtly atmospheric and unnerving.

    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

    It’s highly significant that Victorian England loved Charles Dickens – they surely saw something opposing the spirit of their dismal times. One of the good things about that era – perhaps all eras – is that there always existed this sort of counter-culture that fought against the dominant trends, even if it couldn’t win – for the time being.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    He was suitably anti-Jew too.

    , @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @LondonBob
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I think Dicken's personal experience of his father going to debtor's prison and his having to leave school to work in a factory at twelve gave him an insight in to humanity that others lack, sympathy for those struggling whilst being fully aware many had reached a state through their own choices.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  580. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite...A good and useful read.
     
    Thanks for this and your following heartfelt post on the subject.

    Bottom line, and leaving aside all the less than helpful name calling some engage in, the over intellectualizing, and legalism, which is ultimately all besides the point, do European peoples (not to mention non-European peoples as well) have the right of self determination, the right to govern their own affairs, and to not be dominated by an alien minority?

    In that, no matter how well meaning another individual might tell themselves that they are, and may well even sincerely believe, they can not in any healthy manner run another individual's life, it is the very same dynamic between peoples.

    So, yes, of course European peoples have this right.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite…A good and useful read.

    Here is Charles Maurras describing something like that:

    What is democratism? A practical man will ask who in France professes this abstract doctrine and, since it reigns, who are the men upon whom its power depends? The most cursory examination of the situation allows one to provide an answer – it is not simply professed by a group of individuals. Individual men would never have been able to find a way to carry out such a tour de force and make its results endure. Consider that the greatest, most ancient and venerable spiritual power on one hand, and on the other, physical force, those who bear the sword, who march with the rifle and those who direct the canons, all are kept at bay and persecuted by a simple set of ideas and institutions – democracy!

    A group of individuals would have weakened, become divided, fallen into arguments and destroyed each other in the course of administering this institution and system. So we are driven to suppose that something else must underpin it, some organisation or group of organisations, specifically historic organisations, physical or psychological families, with a shared will, state of mind and feelings passed down from father to son over long centuries, somewhat like the guilds or dynasties of old.

    Jewish and metic dynasties.

    Foreign dynasties, such as those which fomented the French Revolution.

    I think the original text is pre-1914.

    ‘Metic’ here refers mainly to Germans. Maurras often argued that democratic and liberal doctrines were promoted by Judeo-Germanic familial dynasties inside France to expand their power at the expense of the majority.

    In Western Europe after 1945 I think ideas like this became taboo in academia because of the obvious associations. Maurras himself ended up in prison after the war.

    • Replies: @S
    @Coconuts

    Thanks for the excerpt. I was not aware of Charles Maurras. WWII certainly was a disaster for Europeans as a whole.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  581. @LatW
    @Sean


    incredibly young
     
    He is young (and, yes, maybe a bit too young for this post especially given the war, his experience is limited to classified operations and foreign intelligence, it might have been better to look for someone with a longer and more comprehensive experience but he is quite talented) - but he's not incredibly young (he's almost 40) - it only seems that way to you because you live in an extreme gerontocracy. Some East Slavic men mature rather quickly. They are put on track early.

    retake Crimea... But Ukraine being able to do it anyway is a real possibility.
     
    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it's early to say but why train pilots?).

    It now becomes ‘will Putin be willing to see his life’s work political edifice inside Russia topple’? Threats are not working, and the Russian army mediocre at best. I think Putin prolly has to actually use the nuclear option to end the war with his system intact for him to choose his successor.
     
    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military. What would be the point of a single nuclear strike? Russia does not have the troops ready and necessary resources to take over and hold any territory that would be gained through those strikes. But to raise the stakes so high by using the nuclear weapons is very risky for Russia. There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin.

    Replies: @LatW, @Sean

    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.

    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option

    The doctrine on nuclear use never envisioned such a situation as Russia losing a conventional war against a medium sized non-Nato country and resorting to a nuclear strike as a specimen of its resolve to hold on to conquered territory. All the scenarios worked out and examined by Washington for decades are about a totally opposite situation (one in which Russia is advancing conventionally after attacking a Nato member country)..

    I don’t think the US is so sanguine about conventionally clobbering a Russia that had already used nuclear weapons and was conventionally exhausted and being driven back. Were America to try and do that the problem would be Russian fragility as they see it and the US imperfect knowledge of at what point Russia might begin to overdramatise their quandary.

    There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin

    And then surrender Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine before telling all the constituent republics of RusFed to become sovereign states if they want to?

    https://odessa-journal.com/mykhailo-podolyak-after-the-defeat-in-ukraine-the-ethnic-republics-of-the-russian-federation-will-begin-to-present-ultimatum-demands-to-the-kremlin/

    After the defeat in Ukraine, transformations will begin in Russia associated with partially restoring the sovereign rights of ethnic communities. This process is inevitable.

    Mikhail Podolyak, the adviser to the head of the President’s Office, expressed confidence in this, noting that Russia would suffer several more tactical defeats in Ukraine and, in any case, would be thrown back beyond internationally recognized borders. After that, the ethnic republics of the Russian Federation would begin to present ultimatum demands to the Kremlin:

    “This is an objective historical process, and Russia will go through this process. This will be one of the obligatory consequences of the war. And somewhere inside Russia, this is already beginning to emerge … It is clear that some time must still pass and Russia’s defeats must occur on those or other destinations in Ukraine”.

    Podolyak (and his patron Zelensky) are making a mistake the virtual mirror image of Putin’s error–“Ukraine is not a real country”. They think RusFed is a patchwork that will come apart under stress while you think the Russian Armed Forces will refuse to obey a proper chain of command order to use a nuclear weapon on Ukraine’s Armed Forces. If they got such an order right now they might question it, or ask to see it in writing signed by the commanding generals, but by summer if the war takes the turn the the retired German Brigadier Erich Vad predicts of Western weapons inexorably making the Russian positions in Ukraine untenable I think they will be ready.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Sean



    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.
     
    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrainian army is an attractive option
     
    Russia is in what it views as an existential war for survival. If things go the wrong way, using 10-20 strategic nukes would be a necessity in their eyes -- Key rail zones, Odessa and its ports, Kiev, Lviv. If Russia is forced into going this route, they have no reason select any option other than "Shock & Awe".

    America is already disengaged. Not-The-President Biden would not be able to rally. His shameful performance on Tuesday made the partisan divide even worse. There would no doubt be a spectacle, but it would lack substance.

    European Elites may want to react. But, what could they do? Ukraine's ground & sea logistics would be near 100% inoperative. Secondary land routes would be swamped by a rush of refugees entering the EU. One cannot run an armor war with only planes for delivery.

    PEACE 😇

    https://youtu.be/MpmGXeAtWUw

    Replies: @Sean

    , @AP
    @Sean


    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option
     
    One of the main reasons given for supporting Ukraine is that otherwise - to let Russia just get away with invading another country and grabbing and annexing territory - is that a country should not be rewarded for invading and redrawing boundaries.

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    If Russia were to use nukes there would be a high chance of Ukrainians getting missiles with which to strike Moscow, and other very destructive weapons.

    Replies: @Sean, @Greasy William

  582. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow

    It helps to know history. The majority of current EU members lost a war or just folded w/o a fight in the last 100 years. Not a single EU member won a war in that period (at least none achieved a lasting victory: Germany in 1939-41 won a number of wars in Europe, but in 1945 lost everything). France was counted as a “winner” in WWII exclusively due to Stalin’s whim; in reality, France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    France lost a war with Germany and got occupied, with a piece left by the Germans becoming a puppet state.

    Didn’t do very well against the Algerians either

  583. Some other writers I’ve been reading lately –

    Lafcafio Hearn, perhaps the original “Japanologist”. He is a fascinating figure in his own right. Half Irish and half Greek, born to a well off family in Ireland he lived a life of hardscrabble adventure in New Orleans, the Caribbean, and finally Japan, where he married the daughter of a Samurai family, had a few children, and died – happy and content, having found his paradise.

    His books on Japan are great, but I’ve been reading his Letters, which are a rich trove of insights on the cultural developments of his time and the collision of East and West, and provide endless fascinating reflections on Japan and Western culture as it was developing.

    I generally find that to really understand how we ended up where we are today (modern nihilism), the great novels and philosophical tomes are important, but often the letters, diaries, and travelogues of the significant cultural figures – and often even more obscure men – are the ones that really shed light on the development of culture.

    A few things that struck me – in a letter comparing Japanese and Western notions of beauty, he says he showed photographs of Western faces to Japanese who were put off by the “large” eyes of Westerners, especially among women, which they found disagreeable. Yet today, nothing is more characteristically Japanese than an obsession with large eyes, and our simple HBD enthusiasts have long solemnly intoned that we are biologically programmed to see large eyes in women as signs of fertility.

    One of the (many) things that render HBD useless is it’s historical and geographic parochialism – it takes the preferences of late modern man in the West as but as representative of timeless human nature, leading to the most absurd and silly conclusions that anyone who has read much or travelled immediately recognizes as wildly off the mark.

    If HBD was a serious science it would read widely in cultural history, anthropology, and sociology – checking it’s claims both against every historical era and against other cultures – perhaps then, a few modest insights into essential human nature can be wrung out. But that would be rather undramatic and wouldn’t lend itself to the religious uses HBD has in the minds of it’s devotees.

    But anyways.

    Hearn calls Japan of the 19th century “fairyland”, with a population of small, smiling and happy people who make social life pleasant and friction free, and among whom the element of competition and conflict is reduced to a minimum. He describes how coming to Japan from the West is like having the pressure in the atmosphere massively reduced and sinking into a warm comfortable bath. (No doubt this is a simplified picture, as we know some periods of Japanese history were horrifically violent – but even so, daily life amid the bloodshed strove to resemble this picture).

    Amusingly, at one point Hearn says he now truly understands the “significance” of the Western face – sharp, predatory nose, deep set eyes, square face, as indicating a race bred for conflict, strife, and competition (I think he overstates this here. Many Western faces are pleasantly “soft”, and many of the finest Japanese faces have a “warlike” aspect to them that adds to their appeal).

    At another point Hearn also says that the Japanese have no aptitude for science and math, and all their young men become lawyers (which he thinks is a mistake as they can’t compete with the West) 🙂 But contra the simple minded HBD people, I’ve long maintained that Asians don’t have an innate aptitude for STEM, but have wrested their competence in this field from a native culture that is literary and only by incredible effort of will and long hours of study, correctly recognizing that this was necessary to survive.

    Another old writer I’ve been reading is the French Pierre Loti – he used to be incredibly popular in the 19th century, Nietzsche said he was one of his favorite writers “a true Latin of the strongest race”, he called him, but no one reads him anymore.

    He writes mainly of adventures in exotic climes and travelogues to strange places, Africa, the Sahara, the Maghreb, Cambodia and Siam, India, etc. While not malicious, he can be shockingly racist to modern sensibilities, so I understand why he has fell out of favor, but still, it’s not really a malicious or aggressive racism for the most part but just the unintelligent atmosphere of his time.

    He is well worth reading, although I am reminded of just how morbid and pessimistic the French of the 19th century were already becoming under the onslaught of the materialistic industrial civilization that was laying waste their cities and countryside.

    There is a different, darker, quality to French writing in that period that is very different than the English, say – although perhaps that is true of the entire Continent as compared to the English.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What is HBD ...? Historically-based-definition. (judging from the context)..? I suggest when a writer is going to use some acronym here, the first use of a term should be non-acronym, unless it is something widely known as STEM.

    Pierre Loti is ok, but try Louis Couperus "The Hidden Force" if you are ready for something yet darker.
    Unlike "De stille kracht" above, "The Land of Origin" By Charles Edgar du Perron is very soothing in some way: hazy yet colourful memories of the halcyon days in the Dutch Indonesia. Ideal for reading by candlelight.

    I have always had certain interest in exoticism, and as there is none of that in Poland, when I landed in Amsterdam for a year in my life, its Tropenmuseum (formerly known as the Royal Colonial Museum) became my favourite one there, its main hall, full of galleries, being like a jungle full of artefacts! There is also a musical archive where you can listen to early recordings of gamelans etc. I spent a lot of time there especially as visiting museums in Netherlands is almost like practicing an ersatz Sunday religion/ritual due to very cheap Museumkaart, which allows free entry to all state museums.

    Here an intro of a legendary Dutch movie based on the novel "The Hidden Force"; it conveys very well its eerie quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0ESrfxcHk

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  584. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Some other writers I've been reading lately -

    Lafcafio Hearn, perhaps the original "Japanologist". He is a fascinating figure in his own right. Half Irish and half Greek, born to a well off family in Ireland he lived a life of hardscrabble adventure in New Orleans, the Caribbean, and finally Japan, where he married the daughter of a Samurai family, had a few children, and died - happy and content, having found his paradise.

    His books on Japan are great, but I've been reading his Letters, which are a rich trove of insights on the cultural developments of his time and the collision of East and West, and provide endless fascinating reflections on Japan and Western culture as it was developing.

    I generally find that to really understand how we ended up where we are today (modern nihilism), the great novels and philosophical tomes are important, but often the letters, diaries, and travelogues of the significant cultural figures - and often even more obscure men - are the ones that really shed light on the development of culture.

    A few things that struck me - in a letter comparing Japanese and Western notions of beauty, he says he showed photographs of Western faces to Japanese who were put off by the "large" eyes of Westerners, especially among women, which they found disagreeable. Yet today, nothing is more characteristically Japanese than an obsession with large eyes, and our simple HBD enthusiasts have long solemnly intoned that we are biologically programmed to see large eyes in women as signs of fertility.

    One of the (many) things that render HBD useless is it's historical and geographic parochialism - it takes the preferences of late modern man in the West as but as representative of timeless human nature, leading to the most absurd and silly conclusions that anyone who has read much or travelled immediately recognizes as wildly off the mark.

    If HBD was a serious science it would read widely in cultural history, anthropology, and sociology - checking it's claims both against every historical era and against other cultures - perhaps then, a few modest insights into essential human nature can be wrung out. But that would be rather undramatic and wouldn't lend itself to the religious uses HBD has in the minds of it's devotees.

    But anyways.

    Hearn calls Japan of the 19th century "fairyland", with a population of small, smiling and happy people who make social life pleasant and friction free, and among whom the element of competition and conflict is reduced to a minimum. He describes how coming to Japan from the West is like having the pressure in the atmosphere massively reduced and sinking into a warm comfortable bath. (No doubt this is a simplified picture, as we know some periods of Japanese history were horrifically violent - but even so, daily life amid the bloodshed strove to resemble this picture).

    Amusingly, at one point Hearn says he now truly understands the "significance" of the Western face - sharp, predatory nose, deep set eyes, square face, as indicating a race bred for conflict, strife, and competition (I think he overstates this here. Many Western faces are pleasantly "soft", and many of the finest Japanese faces have a "warlike" aspect to them that adds to their appeal).

    At another point Hearn also says that the Japanese have no aptitude for science and math, and all their young men become lawyers (which he thinks is a mistake as they can't compete with the West) :) But contra the simple minded HBD people, I've long maintained that Asians don't have an innate aptitude for STEM, but have wrested their competence in this field from a native culture that is literary and only by incredible effort of will and long hours of study, correctly recognizing that this was necessary to survive.

    Another old writer I've been reading is the French Pierre Loti - he used to be incredibly popular in the 19th century, Nietzsche said he was one of his favorite writers "a true Latin of the strongest race", he called him, but no one reads him anymore.

    He writes mainly of adventures in exotic climes and travelogues to strange places, Africa, the Sahara, the Maghreb, Cambodia and Siam, India, etc. While not malicious, he can be shockingly racist to modern sensibilities, so I understand why he has fell out of favor, but still, it's not really a malicious or aggressive racism for the most part but just the unintelligent atmosphere of his time.

    He is well worth reading, although I am reminded of just how morbid and pessimistic the French of the 19th century were already becoming under the onslaught of the materialistic industrial civilization that was laying waste their cities and countryside.

    There is a different, darker, quality to French writing in that period that is very different than the English, say - although perhaps that is true of the entire Continent as compared to the English.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    What is HBD …? Historically-based-definition. (judging from the context)..? I suggest when a writer is going to use some acronym here, the first use of a term should be non-acronym, unless it is something widely known as STEM.

    Pierre Loti is ok, but try Louis Couperus “The Hidden Force” if you are ready for something yet darker.
    Unlike “De stille kracht” above, “The Land of Origin” By Charles Edgar du Perron is very soothing in some way: hazy yet colourful memories of the halcyon days in the Dutch Indonesia. Ideal for reading by candlelight.

    I have always had certain interest in exoticism, and as there is none of that in Poland, when I landed in Amsterdam for a year in my life, its Tropenmuseum (formerly known as the Royal Colonial Museum) became my favourite one there, its main hall, full of galleries, being like a jungle full of artefacts! There is also a musical archive where you can listen to early recordings of gamelans etc. I spent a lot of time there especially as visiting museums in Netherlands is almost like practicing an ersatz Sunday religion/ritual due to very cheap Museumkaart, which allows free entry to all state museums.

    Here an intro of a legendary Dutch movie based on the novel “The Hidden Force”; it conveys very well its eerie quality.

    • Thanks: HeavilyMarbledSteak
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I've heard of Louis Couperas - he's been on my reading list since the 90s when I first read about him in Dutch writer Ian Buruma, who loves Asia! (In fact my own interest in Asia was sparked partly by him) I think it was in his book God's Dust? I no longer remember - but one of his books on Asia.

    He describes that book as about how Westerners who live long term in tropical Asia slowly change their characters in exotic ways that make it impossible for them to fit back in to the hard working and industrious West - I found the idea intriguing and marvelous, and Buruma says this book partly inspired his fascination with Asia too.

    I hope I'm not getting this book mixed up with another? But I don't think so - https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1994/08/11/revenge-in-the-indies/

    Anyways, totally intend to read and thanks for reminding me!

    You know, APP, for all your dog-disliking moral hideousness and small minded conservatism you can be a positive fount of fascinating and worthwhile cultural recommendations :) Like that movie about the Valley of the Gods - never would have heard of that if not for you.

    I've been to Bali and the string of islands east of it until Komodo, but never into "true" Indonesia - I do still plan on doing so.

    (HBD is human bio dioversity - the notion that our attributes and abilities are almost entirely genetically determined, and moreover they largely solidified during pre-historic times with only a few notable changes during historic times. But you knew this surely?)

  585. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    I've been reading Charles Dickens lately, and it's been a wonderful experience - the funny thing is I couldn't stomach him as a child, because I myself was too "modern", I now see :)

    But Dickens is perhaps the anti-modern writer par excellence. His writing breathes a spirit so opposite to and inimical to the Machine that it's a wonder he's still allowed in print - his language is a luxuriant Gothic explosion, his characters are rich eccentrics and grotesques, odd and unexpected incidents and remarks abound, a rich sense of the absurd and the ridiculous create an atmosphere that has been described as "comic", but is really much more significant than that - it is a revolt against the bland uniformity of Machine life in favor of the irreducibly rich quiddity of human life.

    And there is a "sentimentality" that was much derided in the emerging hardness and "realism" of the early 20th century but can now be fully appreciated for what it is - Love, and kindness, and generosity.

    One of the great pleasures our ancestors had but is denied to ours dismal selves is to sink into an armchair on a cold winters evening, before a fire, in a room lit not by electricity but by candlelight, and delve into a thick Dickens novel. Gone are such delights.

    George Orwell, when he moved into his stone farmhouse in that remote Scottish island that he loved, said one of the great pleasures of life is candlelight - and I for one believe him. I've taken to reading real paper books by candlelight, especially in winter, and it is such a richer experience. Incidentally, I am a fan of the Kindle - when I travel I can take my entire library with me. But certain books have to be read on old paper, preferably yellowed, preferably by the light of a candle.

    When I was a kid reading fantasy books, some instinct led me to partially cover my bedroom lamp so only the dimmest light could shine through. Somehow I understood that certain things can only truly be appreciated in dimness and shadow.

    Junichiro Tanizaki wrote a wonderful little book on Japanese aesthetics called "In Praise of Shadows". In it he celebrates the Japanese love of dimly lighted rooms, shadows, obscurity, mist, fog, rain, dark corners, and mysterious distances, among other aspects of Japanese aesthetics - and contrasts it to the harsh bright lights of the emerging Western civilization.

    There is a wonderful little book by a Japanese author of the 1700s called "Tales of Rain and Moonlight" - what a wonderful name - that is a dozen or so tales of the macabre and mysterious. Nothing overly horrific or dramatic, just subtly atmospheric and unnerving.

    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times - and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don't want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn't so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He's unreadable. But Dickens is still read - and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

    It's highly significant that Victorian England loved Charles Dickens - they surely saw something opposing the spirit of their dismal times. One of the good things about that era - perhaps all eras - is that there always existed this sort of counter-culture that fought against the dominant trends, even if it couldn't win - for the time being.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Yahya, @LondonBob

    He was suitably anti-Jew too.

  586. @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    Seymour Hersh writes about Nord2 and US origins of Attack.
     
    Did you ever doubt that sabotage of NS1 and NS2 was either perpetrated or directed by the US?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Nice to see it in print though. In a paper of record.

  587. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating
     
    It would be buried in an avalanche of rainbows...

    communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat
     
    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down, almost by themselves, of course they celebrated. You are either a Nazi or so badly educated that you think Normandy June 1944!!! won the war. You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it...you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles :)...

    And you talk about falsifying history and propaganda...the precious infantilism of the Western retards...


    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939...Serbs...
     
    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans, so this is not really about shame. They got clobbered because they chose badly - offered to Nazis to attack Russia together, joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia, waited for the saintly Anglos to save them. Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks and proceeded to murder millions of Poles. Of course, Poles can't remember that - too politically inconvenient - and are working on convincing the world that it was all Russia's fault. Go figure, they may get clobbered again with this level of historical stupidity

    The Serbs are probably more concerned with the more recent Nato bombing ("shock-and-awe" in the middle of Europe) than with medieval history. But that is another event you prefer to lie about.


    ....spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost...
     
    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure - it is generally considered a defeat. Maybe a small defeat, or medium, but still a defeat. I am still waiting for a scenario that could be considered a Ukie win - taking back Crimean corridor and Azov would count - is it going to happen?

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony? Get real, people don't care for your blood-soaked myths, it will be quickly forgotten, failed heroism is rather awkward to celebrate...where is the win that you are hoping for?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

    The Ukies seem cock-a-hoop about their chances.

  588. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What is HBD ...? Historically-based-definition. (judging from the context)..? I suggest when a writer is going to use some acronym here, the first use of a term should be non-acronym, unless it is something widely known as STEM.

    Pierre Loti is ok, but try Louis Couperus "The Hidden Force" if you are ready for something yet darker.
    Unlike "De stille kracht" above, "The Land of Origin" By Charles Edgar du Perron is very soothing in some way: hazy yet colourful memories of the halcyon days in the Dutch Indonesia. Ideal for reading by candlelight.

    I have always had certain interest in exoticism, and as there is none of that in Poland, when I landed in Amsterdam for a year in my life, its Tropenmuseum (formerly known as the Royal Colonial Museum) became my favourite one there, its main hall, full of galleries, being like a jungle full of artefacts! There is also a musical archive where you can listen to early recordings of gamelans etc. I spent a lot of time there especially as visiting museums in Netherlands is almost like practicing an ersatz Sunday religion/ritual due to very cheap Museumkaart, which allows free entry to all state museums.

    Here an intro of a legendary Dutch movie based on the novel "The Hidden Force"; it conveys very well its eerie quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0ESrfxcHk

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I’ve heard of Louis Couperas – he’s been on my reading list since the 90s when I first read about him in Dutch writer Ian Buruma, who loves Asia! (In fact my own interest in Asia was sparked partly by him) I think it was in his book God’s Dust? I no longer remember – but one of his books on Asia.

    He describes that book as about how Westerners who live long term in tropical Asia slowly change their characters in exotic ways that make it impossible for them to fit back in to the hard working and industrious West – I found the idea intriguing and marvelous, and Buruma says this book partly inspired his fascination with Asia too.

    I hope I’m not getting this book mixed up with another? But I don’t think so – https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1994/08/11/revenge-in-the-indies/

    Anyways, totally intend to read and thanks for reminding me!

    You know, APP, for all your dog-disliking moral hideousness and small minded conservatism you can be a positive fount of fascinating and worthwhile cultural recommendations 🙂 Like that movie about the Valley of the Gods – never would have heard of that if not for you.

    I’ve been to Bali and the string of islands east of it until Komodo, but never into “true” Indonesia – I do still plan on doing so.

    (HBD is human bio dioversity – the notion that our attributes and abilities are almost entirely genetically determined, and moreover they largely solidified during pre-historic times with only a few notable changes during historic times. But you knew this surely?)

  589. @Sean
    @LatW


    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.
     
    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin's point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option

    The doctrine on nuclear use never envisioned such a situation as Russia losing a conventional war against a medium sized non-Nato country and resorting to a nuclear strike as a specimen of its resolve to hold on to conquered territory. All the scenarios worked out and examined by Washington for decades are about a totally opposite situation (one in which Russia is advancing conventionally after attacking a Nato member country)..


    I don't think the US is so sanguine about conventionally clobbering a Russia that had already used nuclear weapons and was conventionally exhausted and being driven back. Were America to try and do that the problem would be Russian fragility as they see it and the US imperfect knowledge of at what point Russia might begin to overdramatise their quandary.


    There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin
     
    And then surrender Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine before telling all the constituent republics of RusFed to become sovereign states if they want to?

    https://odessa-journal.com/mykhailo-podolyak-after-the-defeat-in-ukraine-the-ethnic-republics-of-the-russian-federation-will-begin-to-present-ultimatum-demands-to-the-kremlin/

    After the defeat in Ukraine, transformations will begin in Russia associated with partially restoring the sovereign rights of ethnic communities. This process is inevitable.

    Mikhail Podolyak, the adviser to the head of the President’s Office, expressed confidence in this, noting that Russia would suffer several more tactical defeats in Ukraine and, in any case, would be thrown back beyond internationally recognized borders. After that, the ethnic republics of the Russian Federation would begin to present ultimatum demands to the Kremlin:

    “This is an objective historical process, and Russia will go through this process. This will be one of the obligatory consequences of the war. And somewhere inside Russia, this is already beginning to emerge … It is clear that some time must still pass and Russia’s defeats must occur on those or other destinations in Ukraine”.
     
    Podolyak (and his patron Zelensky) are making a mistake the virtual mirror image of Putin's error--"Ukraine is not a real country". They think RusFed is a patchwork that will come apart under stress while you think the Russian Armed Forces will refuse to obey a proper chain of command order to use a nuclear weapon on Ukraine's Armed Forces. If they got such an order right now they might question it, or ask to see it in writing signed by the commanding generals, but by summer if the war takes the turn the the retired German Brigadier Erich Vad predicts of Western weapons inexorably making the Russian positions in Ukraine untenable I think they will be ready.

    Replies: @A123, @AP

    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.

    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrainian army is an attractive option

    Russia is in what it views as an existential war for survival. If things go the wrong way, using 10-20 strategic nukes would be a necessity in their eyes — Key rail zones, Odessa and its ports, Kiev, Lviv. If Russia is forced into going this route, they have no reason select any option other than “Shock & Awe”.

    America is already disengaged. Not-The-President Biden would not be able to rally. His shameful performance on Tuesday made the partisan divide even worse. There would no doubt be a spectacle, but it would lack substance.

    European Elites may want to react. But, what could they do? Ukraine’s ground & sea logistics would be near 100% inoperative. Secondary land routes would be swamped by a rush of refugees entering the EU. One cannot run an armor war with only planes for delivery.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Sean
    @A123

    A "units along the border" stance by Russia was politico military pressure, yet unconvincing as a threat because they would be outnumbered four to one on the ground and even more in the air if they crossed that border in an actual offensive Far forward and stationary mobile units are sitting ducks for surprise attack so the Russian posture was sabre rattling, not defensive, as can be seen in Belarus right now. The present conflict between Russia and US led Nato is political/ hybrid.

    As I recall important US officials considered the electoral advances of the Italian Communist Party in the 70s/80s as a threat to Western security, so I expect that Putin is threatened by democracy in Ukraine heartening his Russian opponents and in a time of crisis contributing to by a colour revolution example. However, the simple fact is that Russia's accelerating relative technological backwardness means that in the future its going to become increasingly helpless in any real war, and any sabre rattling it does will be risible.

    Putin has foreseen this (his Munich Security Conference speech about the prospect of the US developing a complete defence to ICBMs and becoming the sole centre of international decision making), therefore he understands that US Patriot and anti ICBM bases on Russia's borders are bringing forward the day when Russian inferiority is so complete that no one pays any attention to what the Kremlin says. Holding back that day is Putin's job as leader of Russia.


    Can't have it both ways, either Russia is heading for defeat or nukes are going to be completely redundant for anything Putin wants to do in Ukraine In the doctrine of the US and as well as RusFed the purpose of nuclear weapons is to halt an enemy's successful conventional offensive, and the US is not giving Ukraine many conventional weapons such as ATACEMs even though Ukraine is completely dependent on US supply of the coordinates for HIMARS and would be for ATACMS too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC1_lpy8TVE That speaks for itself about the US worry that sudden reverses for Putin could lead to him seriously considering the option. At present he thinks he is winning, the US want to keep him oblivious to what is happening, but eventually he will realise he's going to lose. Is he going to have to accept that?

    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin's standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky' closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties. Some people' scoff at nukes being an option for the Kremlin . One of those is Vad, former brigadier and German military advisor to Merkel, who is now predicting an inevitable Russian defeat by Western technology in Ukraine and a quite possible decision to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine rather than quietly leaving the global power stage. Russian is going to try all sorts of things before it gets to that point so it is not going to happen tomorrow, but unless the US backs down of Ukraine becomes much less effective I think Putin will face a very hard decision by the end of the year. He is going to be in a vindictive mood when making it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

  590. O’ What may man within him hide, though angel on the outward side!

    Less than Nine Percent of Western Firms Have Divested from Russia
    Posted: 13 Jan 2023
    Last revised: 31 Jan 2023
    Simon Evenett
    University of St. Gallen – Economics Department – SIAW
    Niccolò Pisani

    Date Written: December 20, 2022

    Abstract
    The Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 and the corporate decisions that followed offer insights into the extent to which Western firms are willing and able to sever commercial ties with nations now viewed as geopolitical rivals by their governments. We gathered extensive data on equity investments made by foreign companies headquartered in the European Union (EU) and G7 nations and checked whether following the outbreak of armed conflict divestment of their Russian subsidiaries could be confirmed. At the end of November 2022, our analysis shows that 8.5% of EU and G7 companies had divested at least one of their Russian subsidiaries. We performed extensive robustness checks that confirm our overall findings while also revealing some notable variation in divestment rates.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4322502

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @Yahya

    You can't simply close a limited company in Russia. You have to appoint an administrator and maintain bank accounts for a year. Not to mention that merely maintaining a limited company is a lot simpler than starting one again.

  591. Xenomania, in other words devil-foreignness, is a deadly weakness that has infected our people … Not a single people under the sun has ever been so offended and disgraced by foreigners as we, Slavs, by the Germans, and yet nowhere do foreigners enjoy that honor and benefits , as we have in Rus’, but among the Poles. Whence hunger, oppression, revolts, every need of the Russian people, if not from foreigners? Where do tears, sweat, involuntary fasting and taxes plundered from the Russian people go? Germans, merchants, and colonels, and ambassadors of various nations, and Crimean robbers drink all this.” () Among the Poles, Germans, Scots, Armenians, Jews have all the benefits, feed their stomachs, and the natives are left with agricultural labor, warfare, and “Sejm cries” and legal troubles. Poverty is everywhere in Rus’, and folk merchants, and thieves eat up all the fat of our land, and we just look. Those, under the guise of experts, come to us with medicine, start ore mines, make glass, weapons, gunpowder, etc. ., but they will never teach us to do the same, so that they will forever profit from us. They promise to teach us the art of war, but in such a way that they will always remain our teachers. Others tell us that they have some kind of secret science, unseen on Rus’, but you don’t need to believe them; they have nothing … Foreigners flooded and flooded our lands, the Germans expelled us from entire powers: from Moravia, from Pomerania, from Silesia, from Prussia; there are already few Slavic people in Czech cities. Poles, all the cities are filled with Germans, Jews, and Armenians, Scots, Italians, and we are their serfs, we plow the land for them, but we wage wars for their benefit: they would sit in their stone houses, and they would call us pigs and dogs! And what is happening in Rus’! Foreign merchants everywhere keep warehouses and farms and all sorts of crafts; they are free to walk on our land and buy our goods at a cheap price, and bring us the expensive and the useless … Wherever there are attractive places for trade, the Germans took all this from us, drove us away from the sea, from navigable rivers, drove us into yell at the earth … Others deceive us with the vain names of academies and higher schools, degrees of doctors, masters, but all this is nothing: the earth is filled with a multitude of idle hacks and scribes. It would be better for them in their youth to learn useful and necessary crafts for the people, otherwise wise teachers teach them grammar, and not other more selfish knowledge: I have not yet seen a single famous doctor, mathematician, musician or architect from our people … ”
    “The Germans laugh at the fact that the Russians eat such salty fish that you first smell with your nose than you see with your eyes, but these Pharisees do not write about how they bring cheese with worms to the table…”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juraj_Kri%C5%BEani%C4%87

    • Thanks: S
  592. @S
    @Beckow


    My sense is that Leave No Shadow is a fatalist – he knows what is going on with the West, the catastrophic drop in the quality of people, etc…it is not good, almost hopeless; but he choose to embrace it, celebrate it, paint it in a positive way.
     
    That's not an unreasonable take.

    From past unfruitful experience I generally will avoid interacting with the suicidal/delusional modern self proclaimed 'progressive' sort. In their earlier incarnations, such as their great public health campaigns regarding clean water, clean food, vaccination/inoculation against disease, literacy promotion, etc, of the early 20th century I would have been one with them.

    Then somewhere in there they adopted the very dangerous path of 'the ends justify the means' to achieve objectives and to take what they want, along with now having this obsessive compulsive thing of trying to force everyone (men, women, children, races, ethnicities, cultures, etc) to be just the same, both physically and spiritually, ie to be 'equal' in the most literal sense of the term, when there are clearly some very real and significant natural differences (some good, some less so) between them.

    The longterm result of ignoring the truth, and not respecting these differences and working within that reality, along with their adoption of the 'ends justify the means' as a way of doing things, is that slowly but surely a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality, and, as this is not a particularly healthy place to be, has resulted in a nihilistic/suicidal, or 'fatalistic' as you put it, outlook towards life.

    In the progs not tolerating constructive criticism, already seeing themselves as 'perfect', they have gone far off course to become what they (at least claimed) to have been fighting all along...ie they are totalitarian, intolerant, extremely violent, warmongers, hatefully obsessed on the subject of race, truly genocidal in wanting to deliberately biologically 'mix away' every race and ethnicity, ideally (from their view) with sub-Saharan Africans. What they accuse others of is in reality most true of themselves...see Joe Biden, for example.

    If this suicidal/self destructive path of the modern progressives wasn't bad enough, they want to take everyone else down with them, in a global apocalyptic mass murder/suicide known as WWIII.

    Jonestown was the unheeded warning.




    https://www.mikerindersblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/jonestown.jpg


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Ryan

    Replies: @Beckow

    …a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality

    That’s the core problem today. Prog-libs can’t accept reality so they gradually move away from it – or like our Leave no Shadow optimist, they fatalistically embrace it, paint it rosy, probably thinking that if they sell it with upbeat verbiage and promises of miracles, they will get a few more years. Biden seems very much from that ‘damn it, I just need a few more good years, so shut up!!!‘ school of liberalism.

    I would also point out that a lot of the current progressive collapse into complete idiocy has to do with their basic incompetence and laziness: clean water and air require lots of work – blabbing about “climate change” almost none. Good working and living conditions also require actual hard work – preaching about equity requires nothing. What came first, the idiocy of by-any-means-necessary fanatics or their laziness I can’t always tell – they seem to go together.

    I am still not convinced that they will blow it up in a global apocalypse. It is increasingly possible, but we need a few more escalations – e.g. the dumb Poles marching into Galicia (or Belarus). If it happens, we need to remember that the “end” of turning Ukraine into an armed Nato camp against Russia was worth the “means”…the progressives will glow in the dark and be happy…the satanic Russians will also perish (AP will call it a “win” as he turns into hot air).

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Beckow

    It should be "Casts No Shadow".

    Of course Nuclear blasts do leave silhouette like shadows of humans on walls.

    , @Gerard1234
    @Beckow

    Not much connected , but all this Olympics talk did amuse me. Its a truly on-the-floor with laughter movement if a coalition of losers and retards(Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics )- actually boycotts the Olympics whilst noone else does and Russian sportsstars can compete and win alot of medals ( except being formally under neutral flag). These freaks are obsessed with status (or the illusion of status) to compensate for their loser lives, so I think if this situation does occur it could do some other good like the total humiliation of seeing them boycott the Olympics with nobody else being interested at all or missing them in any way - this could eventually be the first step towards making sane decision in the political field.

    I think its essential for womens sports in the Olympics that Russian and Belarus sportstars can go because the same sheep-like retard thinking into having the transexual freakshow enter into womans sport is not distinuguisable from that saying Russia/Belarus should be banned or a boycott ( or pointless wearing of facemasks when hiking in the mountains). A Venn diagram would probably 90% overlap.

    This is where it being held in France is a big advantage - because obviously France can't boycott it and the main European countries can't insult France by threatening to boycott it either . Canada has become good at the Olympics and would normally be expected to join in the boycott threat with the Ukronazi cabal, but because of its own French links this is not likely.

    If the IOC, who have behaved like trash in the last 8 years, stand their ground then I feel this could be a very big - although I am very surprised the Americans seem to be allowing us. There must be some trick, like allowing all the other countries in the qualifier tournaments to not allow Russians visas to compete and so not qualify for the Olympics.
    The coalition of retards is obviously a joke on its own. Bulgaria, Romania , Gruzia and even the over-achieving in sports Czechs and Slovaks also boycotting would not be a disaster. The scandinavian paedophiles boycotting , which sure could be possible would be no loss although would certainly give credibility to the boycott. Conformist Japan would certainly be an important boycotter - but if US aren't doing it then they certainly would not.

  593. “cock-a-hoop”…”hardscrabble”??

    There’s always something to be learned by reading this blog! 🙂

    After the advent of Bashi, AaronB, Tritelia-Laxa and even Geraldina, all that’s left is the reanimation of Karlin, Thorfinnson, Daniel Chei, Reiner Tor and German_ Reader (?), and it’ll be a complete full house again…..

    Anybody want to read my list of old timers that need to take some serious time off? I’m at the top of the list. 🙂

  594. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    if Kiev wins (very unlikely) and Russia loses, the global liberal celebrations would be absolutely overwhelming. They would be ecstatic and whether Ukies are homos or even liberal in any way would make no difference.
     
    What's not to like? Both Ukraine and the US would end up getting what they want out of this war. Ukraine has little time to try and manage the leftist cultural agenda within the US, as it is too busy trying to get weaponry in a more timely manner. As long as the West keeps on arming Ukraine, it will do enough to remain a sovereign state. And after all, are one or two gay parades too much to ask in return for your country's sovereignty? I see that Slovakia has had these gay parades from at least 2012, and has somehow remained functional. Or have you left for Donbas or some other new haven that more suits your moralistic views of living arrangements? Mariupol, perhaps?

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/DuhovyPrideBratislava2012Pochod1.JPG/800px-DuhovyPrideBratislava2012Pochod1.JPG
    Gay rights parade Bratislave 2012. No gay parades in Mariupol (thank you Putler!).

    Replies: @Beckow

    I am not sure you want to pointing to a few hundred people assembled in some boondock suburb of Bratislava – not exactly an endorsement. Look up the tens of thousands who show up for regular “family” marches. It is not even close.

    What’s not to like?

    Well, to each his own, if you like to march, more power to you. But I think some of the relatives of the tens of thousand Ukie dead will be disappointed if the big winner after the war will be Zelko in drag leading a bunch of rainbow-internationalists in a rap song, waving Floyd’s ugly mug shot picture…

    Come on, admit that losing would be better – they would sing Internacionale, wear suits and camouflage, wave fists, women would be pretty, coy and without metal stuff hanging from their noses…I may even show up.

    This is at its core a cultural fight where the rainbow wimps found (or bought) some tough Ukies to fight in their corner. Somebody should tell the misguided fools what they are dying for: Nato, a right to a MLK holiday, and LGBTQ-free-for-all. Maybe they would still fight, but at least they would probably change the slogans…whatever the paymasters want, right?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler's ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it's all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.

    Replies: @Beckow

  595. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...The conservative Poles and Ukrainians would also be celebrating
     
    It would be buried in an avalanche of rainbows...

    communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat
     
    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down, almost by themselves, of course they celebrated. You are either a Nazi or so badly educated that you think Normandy June 1944!!! won the war. You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it...you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles :)...

    And you talk about falsifying history and propaganda...the precious infantilism of the Western retards...


    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939...Serbs...
     
    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans, so this is not really about shame. They got clobbered because they chose badly - offered to Nazis to attack Russia together, joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia, waited for the saintly Anglos to save them. Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks and proceeded to murder millions of Poles. Of course, Poles can't remember that - too politically inconvenient - and are working on convincing the world that it was all Russia's fault. Go figure, they may get clobbered again with this level of historical stupidity

    The Serbs are probably more concerned with the more recent Nato bombing ("shock-and-awe" in the middle of Europe) than with medieval history. But that is another event you prefer to lie about.


    ....spin that as a defeat because some nice farmland will be lost...
     
    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure - it is generally considered a defeat. Maybe a small defeat, or medium, but still a defeat. I am still waiting for a scenario that could be considered a Ukie win - taking back Crimean corridor and Azov would count - is it going to happen?

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony? Get real, people don't care for your blood-soaked myths, it will be quickly forgotten, failed heroism is rather awkward to celebrate...where is the win that you are hoping for?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

    “communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat”

    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down

    Indeed they did. And not only them. The biggest winners of all were the Americans.

    You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it

    I just stated that just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler, doesn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate it either, you liar.

    Similarly, rainbow flag celebrations over a Russian loss didn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate also.

    you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles

    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.

    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939…Serbs…

    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans

    Yes. The consequence of not being a lackey and willing servant to the Germans, like your people were.

    They got clobbered because they chose badly

    Yes, the natural lackey whose people were among the most enthusiastic of Germany’s allies thinks the Poles who refused German alliances and instead fought the Germans, “chose badly.”

    offered to Nazis to attack Russia together

    A lie, and even more stupid than your usual ones. You are claiming the Germans murdered millions of Poles because the Poles offered to be the Germans’ allies?

    Germany signed a nonaggression treaty with Germany in which each side refused to attack the other, but refused all German offers of an alliance. In contrast to your Slovakia, an eager ally that even paid with its own money for the extermination of its Jews.

    joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia

    Separate and non coordinated actions, unlike joint German and Soviet invasion of Poland.

    Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks

    Another lie. Warsaw was taken in 4 weeks and the country was occupied in 5-6.

    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure – it is generally considered a defeat

    It depends on the aim. Russia’s aim was keep Donbas and Crimea, and to turn Ukraine into a demilitarized non-independent puppet state, Ukraine’s to avoid that fate. If Ukraine loses 15% of its territory (16% if/when Russia takes Bakhmut) but is free to pursue total de-Russification of the rest, to join the EU, and to have a powerful military than it is at least a draw.

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony

    You are really desperate if you compare the total occupation and division of Germany to the loss of the Crimean corridor.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ... just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler
     
    You are one sick puppy...you can't bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2...we know your type. You evade, spin, put qualifiers, but you really can't live with the reality that Russia won - so you make up lying narratives, add irrelevant stuff, anything but directly state what happened: Russia won WW2. Can you try to say it?

    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.
     
    The new territory wasn't populated by Poles either - it would be appropriate to return it, since Poland rejects and deeply resents Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles (who lost in 5 weeks?) It is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic shouldn't be rewarded. Poland should shrink to only the areas that were populated by Poles in 1945, no Silesia or Pomerania, no half of East Prussia - time to give it back.

    Replies: @AP

  596. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    I am not sure you want to pointing to a few hundred people assembled in some boondock suburb of Bratislava - not exactly an endorsement. Look up the tens of thousands who show up for regular "family" marches. It is not even close.


    What’s not to like?
     
    Well, to each his own, if you like to march, more power to you. But I think some of the relatives of the tens of thousand Ukie dead will be disappointed if the big winner after the war will be Zelko in drag leading a bunch of rainbow-internationalists in a rap song, waving Floyd's ugly mug shot picture...

    Come on, admit that losing would be better - they would sing Internacionale, wear suits and camouflage, wave fists, women would be pretty, coy and without metal stuff hanging from their noses...I may even show up.

    This is at its core a cultural fight where the rainbow wimps found (or bought) some tough Ukies to fight in their corner. Somebody should tell the misguided fools what they are dying for: Nato, a right to a MLK holiday, and LGBTQ-free-for-all. Maybe they would still fight, but at least they would probably change the slogans...whatever the paymasters want, right?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Are you on drugs, Mr. Hack? You are just spouting pure nonsense - the only thing I can figure out is your pathological hatred for anything "Russian". Ok, hate all you want, it has never got anyone anywhere, but wouldn't you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?

    Or are you so stupid that you think you would continue munching on tacos in Phoenix as Russia is nuked? I find your idiocy quite scary....if there are many like you, it will go completely nuts. Go for a long walk and stop the mindless hatred, it is a sad spectacle...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  597. Curious news story:

    (Reuters) — SpaceX has taken steps to prevent Starlink Internet service from being used to control Ukraine’s military drones, as their product was never intended to be used as a weapon, the company said.

  598. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    I've been reading Charles Dickens lately, and it's been a wonderful experience - the funny thing is I couldn't stomach him as a child, because I myself was too "modern", I now see :)

    But Dickens is perhaps the anti-modern writer par excellence. His writing breathes a spirit so opposite to and inimical to the Machine that it's a wonder he's still allowed in print - his language is a luxuriant Gothic explosion, his characters are rich eccentrics and grotesques, odd and unexpected incidents and remarks abound, a rich sense of the absurd and the ridiculous create an atmosphere that has been described as "comic", but is really much more significant than that - it is a revolt against the bland uniformity of Machine life in favor of the irreducibly rich quiddity of human life.

    And there is a "sentimentality" that was much derided in the emerging hardness and "realism" of the early 20th century but can now be fully appreciated for what it is - Love, and kindness, and generosity.

    One of the great pleasures our ancestors had but is denied to ours dismal selves is to sink into an armchair on a cold winters evening, before a fire, in a room lit not by electricity but by candlelight, and delve into a thick Dickens novel. Gone are such delights.

    George Orwell, when he moved into his stone farmhouse in that remote Scottish island that he loved, said one of the great pleasures of life is candlelight - and I for one believe him. I've taken to reading real paper books by candlelight, especially in winter, and it is such a richer experience. Incidentally, I am a fan of the Kindle - when I travel I can take my entire library with me. But certain books have to be read on old paper, preferably yellowed, preferably by the light of a candle.

    When I was a kid reading fantasy books, some instinct led me to partially cover my bedroom lamp so only the dimmest light could shine through. Somehow I understood that certain things can only truly be appreciated in dimness and shadow.

    Junichiro Tanizaki wrote a wonderful little book on Japanese aesthetics called "In Praise of Shadows". In it he celebrates the Japanese love of dimly lighted rooms, shadows, obscurity, mist, fog, rain, dark corners, and mysterious distances, among other aspects of Japanese aesthetics - and contrasts it to the harsh bright lights of the emerging Western civilization.

    There is a wonderful little book by a Japanese author of the 1700s called "Tales of Rain and Moonlight" - what a wonderful name - that is a dozen or so tales of the macabre and mysterious. Nothing overly horrific or dramatic, just subtly atmospheric and unnerving.

    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times - and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don't want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn't so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He's unreadable. But Dickens is still read - and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

    It's highly significant that Victorian England loved Charles Dickens - they surely saw something opposing the spirit of their dismal times. One of the good things about that era - perhaps all eras - is that there always existed this sort of counter-culture that fought against the dominant trends, even if it couldn't win - for the time being.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Yahya, @LondonBob

    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

    It’s funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven’t read any of his other novels so I’ll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of “Old Man”. I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad’s Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy’s short works.

    If you haven’t read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There’s a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman’s boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is “what God had put him on the Earth to do”. Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There’s also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin’s story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: “Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, “If you eat one another, I don’t see why we mayn’t eat you.” So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do.

    I’m surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven’t read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you’d like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Yahya

    Thank you.

    Even as I was writing it I thought perhaps I was being a bit too harsh on Hemingway. I've read a few things of his years ago which I enjoyed immensely, but as I continued exploring his oevre I somehow began to lose interest. But I agree he has some excellent pieces.

    The Old Man and the Sea was something I had to read in 9th grade, and I remember none of it :) Your description sounds very enticing though, so I shall have to revisit to it.

    Hemingway wrote in the era of Existentialism, which in my opinion was the last dying gasp - the death-rattle, really - of the old religious sensibility, and while I agree that he hasn't quite lost his relevance yet I am undecided if existentialism, or the penultimate stage before nihilism, will turn out to be of lasting and timeless importance. Perhaps it will.

    For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle - I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture.

    Likewise, the idea that this is what God put him on the earth to do - blindly hunt, eat, out of "blind instinct", etc. There is the residue of a higher religious sensibility there but it also strikes me as a step on the path to nihilism.

    The descriptions of the fish utterly loyal to it's mate, and humans perhaps being unworthy to hunt such noble animals are, I agree, very fine :) Likewise the ones about the hawk and the turtle and the sympathy for natural creatures and all life that this evinces - these are good things.

    In the end, I think Hemingway was supremely important as a " cultural moment" - and he can fulfill the same function today to anyone in the same state of mind as the early 20th century West - but I am not entirely sure he represents something of timeless importance. But perhaps I am wrong, and you make an excellent point that he is still highly relevant today - after all, we are still stuck in nihilism, so the stages to it are still relevant :)

    By contrast, I increasingly think Dickens represents something of undying and timeless importance, and will be read after we've emerged from nihilism - an opinion I would have found laughable 20 years ago lol.

    But who knows? Literary reputations are famously unpredictable, and this could be no more than my prejudices.

    I will have to look again into the Old Man and the Sea - thanks!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    I never read the book, however, have seen the film version starring Spencer Tracy. From your description, it sounds like the original novel is deeper and more philosophical in nature. I do, however, recommend the film:

    https://youtu.be/7-F--TGphWI

    You bring up some good points - waiting to read AaronB's reply...

    I see that he's beat me to the punch and has already replied above. :-)

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Hemingway is a great writer.

    A Farewell to Arms https://g.co/kgs/S4aJFH

    For Whom the Bell Tolls https://g.co/kgs/88Da8G

    Your next assignment(s) ?

    😉

    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway's ethos is similar to London's in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.

    We had London's complete writings, and several Hemingway's books in our family collection when I was growing up. That's one of the things I miss - our wonderful bookshelves...

    BTW, did you watch "Into the Wild ?"

    Into the Wild https://g.co/kgs/CCFxi3

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Yahya

    , @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    I always liked Hemingway just fine, and Old Man and The Sea is one of my favorite short novellas.

    It's been a while though, and I think I may have to pick it up again.

    Aaron, you should give Hemingway another chance. He isn't so bad!

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad’s Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy’s short works.
     
    Ernest Hemingway was a great writer. He was abundantly masculine and has so fallen out of fashion. He boxed and hunted lions and leopards for entertainment.
  599. @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thank you.

    Even as I was writing it I thought perhaps I was being a bit too harsh on Hemingway. I’ve read a few things of his years ago which I enjoyed immensely, but as I continued exploring his oevre I somehow began to lose interest. But I agree he has some excellent pieces.

    The Old Man and the Sea was something I had to read in 9th grade, and I remember none of it 🙂 Your description sounds very enticing though, so I shall have to revisit to it.

    Hemingway wrote in the era of Existentialism, which in my opinion was the last dying gasp – the death-rattle, really – of the old religious sensibility, and while I agree that he hasn’t quite lost his relevance yet I am undecided if existentialism, or the penultimate stage before nihilism, will turn out to be of lasting and timeless importance. Perhaps it will.

    For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle – I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture.

    Likewise, the idea that this is what God put him on the earth to do – blindly hunt, eat, out of “blind instinct”, etc. There is the residue of a higher religious sensibility there but it also strikes me as a step on the path to nihilism.

    The descriptions of the fish utterly loyal to it’s mate, and humans perhaps being unworthy to hunt such noble animals are, I agree, very fine 🙂 Likewise the ones about the hawk and the turtle and the sympathy for natural creatures and all life that this evinces – these are good things.

    In the end, I think Hemingway was supremely important as a ” cultural moment” – and he can fulfill the same function today to anyone in the same state of mind as the early 20th century West – but I am not entirely sure he represents something of timeless importance. But perhaps I am wrong, and you make an excellent point that he is still highly relevant today – after all, we are still stuck in nihilism, so the stages to it are still relevant 🙂

    By contrast, I increasingly think Dickens represents something of undying and timeless importance, and will be read after we’ve emerged from nihilism – an opinion I would have found laughable 20 years ago lol.

    But who knows? Literary reputations are famously unpredictable, and this could be no more than my prejudices.

    I will have to look again into the Old Man and the Sea – thanks!

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I had read "Old Man and the Sea" but it was so long ago - it was (is?) a mandatory reading in the 7th class of the Polish elementary school! - that I scarcely remember it.
    But much later, and in English original, I read "The Sun Also Rises" and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there.

    "For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle – I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture."

    My good friend would call it self-mythologizing (deliberately creating myths of oneself), which, he thought, is sophisticated cheating of oneself, and not entirely positive as such. It is Hemingway who does this, not the old man, though: in other words, this story is a piece of Hemingway self-mythology.

    Replies: @songbird, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  600. @Beckow
    @S


    ...a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality
     
    That's the core problem today. Prog-libs can't accept reality so they gradually move away from it - or like our Leave no Shadow optimist, they fatalistically embrace it, paint it rosy, probably thinking that if they sell it with upbeat verbiage and promises of miracles, they will get a few more years. Biden seems very much from that 'damn it, I just need a few more good years, so shut up!!!' school of liberalism.

    I would also point out that a lot of the current progressive collapse into complete idiocy has to do with their basic incompetence and laziness: clean water and air require lots of work - blabbing about "climate change" almost none. Good working and living conditions also require actual hard work - preaching about equity requires nothing. What came first, the idiocy of by-any-means-necessary fanatics or their laziness I can't always tell - they seem to go together.

    I am still not convinced that they will blow it up in a global apocalypse. It is increasingly possible, but we need a few more escalations - e.g. the dumb Poles marching into Galicia (or Belarus). If it happens, we need to remember that the "end" of turning Ukraine into an armed Nato camp against Russia was worth the "means"...the progressives will glow in the dark and be happy...the satanic Russians will also perish (AP will call it a "win" as he turns into hot air).

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    It should be “Casts No Shadow”.

    Of course Nuclear blasts do leave silhouette like shadows of humans on walls.

  601. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry

    Well, last spring I got the Book of Mormon from 3 Mormon pretty girls from USA in Czech Praha. I was pretty shocked that Mormons now turned to (experimental?) 20+ female missionaries strategy. Maybe they got inspired by the "daughters of Moab playing harlots" Biblical fragment - after all, they called one of their cities in Utah - Moab.
    The girls had nice, normal clothes, and one was even rather sexy. Maybe the new strategy is called "Become a Mormon covert and get a sexy, young Mormon wife"...?
    Anyway, such a mission is much more approachable and nicer to talk than your usual black-clad, tired, dull Mormon missionaries.
    I do wonder, though, how many converts Mormons get per mission, especially in developed countries, where there are no financial/lifestyle incentives to become a convert.

    I did not yet read "The Book of Mormon" but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT). However, there are quite a few nice, Bible-style pictures to sweeten the reading experience.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

    I did not yet read “The Book of Mormon” but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT).

    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Once I read the beginning of the Book of Mormon out of curiosity.

    Dull is not how I’d describe it. I am sure they did not mean this, but the Book of Mormon reads like an angry parody of the Bible. Apparently, someone tried to mimic the Bible, but had less talent than the least talented authors of OT chapters (for those who never read it, OT is very uneven: some chapters are excruciatingly dull, the quality of writing in some is at the level of high school student with straight Cs, but some chapters are brilliant both in terms of writing style and content).

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    I would say the Book of Mormon is unintentional parody maybe...well, it surely was written with the Book of Isaiah on the desk, which strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God with its all-encompassing perspective which you can clearly detect here and there in the Bible.

    It seems to be a story of two people, Lamanites and Nephites, who continuously fight each other - more than anyone in the Bible - for no clear, convincing reasons (like Russia presently, they don't seem to have clear war goals whose achievements could end the conflict). This theme soon becomes rather repetitive, for which reason I called it "dull".
    The Book lacks clear bad guys; Baal does not exist anymore and "Satan has power over men because scriptures are missing" according to my concordance referring to Nephi 1, 13:29. "Scriptures are missing" is not really the grandiose vision of the Bible.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN


    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
     
    The last 6 or 7 hotel rooms I was in did not have a Gideon bible. Now that everyone has 15 translations of the bible sitting in the cloud accessible from their phone I guess it is over for the Gideons.

    On their home page they claim they are still going at it so maybe I am an anomaly.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  602. @Sean
    @LatW


    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.
     
    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin's point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option

    The doctrine on nuclear use never envisioned such a situation as Russia losing a conventional war against a medium sized non-Nato country and resorting to a nuclear strike as a specimen of its resolve to hold on to conquered territory. All the scenarios worked out and examined by Washington for decades are about a totally opposite situation (one in which Russia is advancing conventionally after attacking a Nato member country)..


    I don't think the US is so sanguine about conventionally clobbering a Russia that had already used nuclear weapons and was conventionally exhausted and being driven back. Were America to try and do that the problem would be Russian fragility as they see it and the US imperfect knowledge of at what point Russia might begin to overdramatise their quandary.


    There could be people inside of Kremlin who do not want such a scenario. They could remove Putin
     
    And then surrender Donbass and Crimea to Ukraine before telling all the constituent republics of RusFed to become sovereign states if they want to?

    https://odessa-journal.com/mykhailo-podolyak-after-the-defeat-in-ukraine-the-ethnic-republics-of-the-russian-federation-will-begin-to-present-ultimatum-demands-to-the-kremlin/

    After the defeat in Ukraine, transformations will begin in Russia associated with partially restoring the sovereign rights of ethnic communities. This process is inevitable.

    Mikhail Podolyak, the adviser to the head of the President’s Office, expressed confidence in this, noting that Russia would suffer several more tactical defeats in Ukraine and, in any case, would be thrown back beyond internationally recognized borders. After that, the ethnic republics of the Russian Federation would begin to present ultimatum demands to the Kremlin:

    “This is an objective historical process, and Russia will go through this process. This will be one of the obligatory consequences of the war. And somewhere inside Russia, this is already beginning to emerge … It is clear that some time must still pass and Russia’s defeats must occur on those or other destinations in Ukraine”.
     
    Podolyak (and his patron Zelensky) are making a mistake the virtual mirror image of Putin's error--"Ukraine is not a real country". They think RusFed is a patchwork that will come apart under stress while you think the Russian Armed Forces will refuse to obey a proper chain of command order to use a nuclear weapon on Ukraine's Armed Forces. If they got such an order right now they might question it, or ask to see it in writing signed by the commanding generals, but by summer if the war takes the turn the the retired German Brigadier Erich Vad predicts of Western weapons inexorably making the Russian positions in Ukraine untenable I think they will be ready.

    Replies: @A123, @AP

    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option

    One of the main reasons given for supporting Ukraine is that otherwise – to let Russia just get away with invading another country and grabbing and annexing territory – is that a country should not be rewarded for invading and redrawing boundaries.

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    If Russia were to use nukes there would be a high chance of Ukrainians getting missiles with which to strike Moscow, and other very destructive weapons.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @AP


    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?
     
    it's not a war against America or any other Nato member, and the reason the US is involved in supplying Ukraine is because the US has chosen that backing of Ukraine, which is as finely balanced as a carnival sideshow game to keep the 'mark' playing. Ukraine is doing the heavy lifting, for the US objective of weakening Russia (Lloyd Austin said so), thus Ukraine is being kept in the game and believing they are ever closer to final victory they will continue to knock seven bells out of the Russian army. However, America wants it slow but sure.

    I think it is already quite clear from tardy provision of things such as HIMARS and the forthright denial of ATACMS, Abrams, F16's ECT that America feels under no obligation of an unqualified commitment to giving Ukraine arms that would make them able to retake Crimea this summer. The danger of a nuke would come if Ukraine does much better that the US expects against Russia in the next few months.


    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?
     
    I think if the US ignored Russia capabilities and facilitated or did not dissuade Ukraine from retaking Crimea, the Kremlin would see that as a Western boot pressing down on Russia's neck. It would be the Russian standpoint that was key in their decision on what to do. Not how America viewed it.
    , @Greasy William
    @AP

    I just can't see Russia using nukes unless pre war Russia is threatened. Even then I would see it as a super long shot unless the current regime was seriously threatened.

    I think the US is stalling on supplying Ukraine with all it needs out of a mixture of caution, incompetence and budgetary/supply issues.


    If Putin is willing to carry out a nuclear holocaust if he doesn't get it's way, then that's on him. The West is not going to submit to nuclear extortion on this issue, however.

    Having said that, the most prudent thing to do remains to give Putin a face saving way out, and that means at minimum Russia needs to keep all the parts of Ukraine it currently occupies and lifting the sanctions.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  603. @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I never read the book, however, have seen the film version starring Spencer Tracy. From your description, it sounds like the original novel is deeper and more philosophical in nature. I do, however, recommend the film:

    You bring up some good points – waiting to read AaronB’s reply…

    I see that he’s beat me to the punch and has already replied above. 🙂

    • Thanks: Yahya
  604. Interesting to consider how Star Wars has changed over the years.

    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.

    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a “socially conscious film.”

    After RotJ, Mark Hamil thought that Lucas would make Star Wars return 20 years later, and that Luke would return, this time, in the role of a father. But when he did return, he was childless and hopeless, and now they are making him a homo or something.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    Nice isn't it?


    The Switcheroo was to the Emperor's Granddaughter...Was this targeted at Posh English girls from Cheltenham Ladies School as the core audience?

    , @A123
    @songbird


    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.
     
    A New Hope was a Western that happened to be set in space. Vader wore black armor for the same reason that a cowboys wear black hats.

    Lando was a well written character. Billy Dee Williams was well cast for the role. Therefore it worked. Williams pushed hard for a cape on his costume, and that is how they arrived at the pretentious adornment that helped sell the character.


    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a “socially conscious film.”
     
    Arrested and Interrogated. Anyone might be a bit snippy. Especially when the rescue team includes Han Solo.

    The gold bikini and slave collar was socially concious? Really?

    Yes, she did get to strangle Jabba to death. And, was rescuing Han. However these are the types of things royalty are expected to do noblesse oblige. Also, we find out she is Luke's sister and therefore a potential Jedi.
    ___

    The Disney trilogy was awful. They really need to purge them from canon like they did the "Legends" books. Then, start over. Rumor has it that the franchise IP might be for sale.

    The animated stuff has been funny as light entertainment. The live action has ranged from neutral to bad. Kenobi was truly abysmal. What is terrifying is that there are worse projects out there. Velma and Rings of Power spring immediately to mind.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IU-TmNHMTh8

    Replies: @songbird

  605. “Autocracy’s grown weaker, name me one leader who’d trade places with Zi Xiping…”

    What even does this mean?

  606. @songbird
    Interesting to consider how Star Wars has changed over the years.

    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.

    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a "socially conscious film."

    After RotJ, Mark Hamil thought that Lucas would make Star Wars return 20 years later, and that Luke would return, this time, in the role of a father. But when he did return, he was childless and hopeless, and now they are making him a homo or something.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123

    Nice isn’t it?

    The Switcheroo was to the Emperor’s Granddaughter…Was this targeted at Posh English girls from Cheltenham Ladies School as the core audience?

  607. @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hemingway is a great writer.

    A Farewell to Arms https://g.co/kgs/S4aJFH

    For Whom the Bell Tolls https://g.co/kgs/88Da8G

    Your next assignment(s) ?

    😉

    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway’s ethos is similar to London’s in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.

    We had London’s complete writings, and several Hemingway’s books in our family collection when I was growing up. That’s one of the things I miss – our wonderful bookshelves…

    BTW, did you watch “Into the Wild ?”

    Into the Wild https://g.co/kgs/CCFxi3

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    I'm a huge fan of Jack London. Read most of his stuff.

    His wilderness stuff of course is best known and is great, but his more "serious" novels and travelogues are great as well, as are his quasi sci-fi novels.

    , @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Your next assignment(s) ?
     
    I know you’re joking; but please, cut out the condescension.

    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.


    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway’s ethos is similar to London’s in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.
     
    That’s funny; because there’s a certain other Russian who admires both these authors: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vladimir-putins-reading-list

    Do you like Jules Verne as well, Pynya?

    ——

    I am also a fan of Jack London’s novels.

    Call Of The Wild was the first novel to captivate my interest from beginning to end.

    I recall the lingering impact it left for weeks after I finished reading it.

    London was a gifted writer. He an inborn dramatic instinct; and a rare aesthetic sensitiveness.

    He was also a master of constructing sentences; every word was perceptively chosen and elegantly ordered.

    It’s instructive to compare him to his fellow socialist contemporary across the Atlantic.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.

    London’s essays were characteristically elegant but ultimately wrong-headed and superficial.

    Orwell’s essays rank alongside Mencken and Johnson for wisdom and clarity.

    On the other hand, his novels lacked the transcendent quality of superior novelists.


    BTW, did you watch “Into the Wild ?”
     
    No. Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  608. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I did not yet read “The Book of Mormon” but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT).
     
    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Once I read the beginning of the Book of Mormon out of curiosity.

    Dull is not how I’d describe it. I am sure they did not mean this, but the Book of Mormon reads like an angry parody of the Bible. Apparently, someone tried to mimic the Bible, but had less talent than the least talented authors of OT chapters (for those who never read it, OT is very uneven: some chapters are excruciatingly dull, the quality of writing in some is at the level of high school student with straight Cs, but some chapters are brilliant both in terms of writing style and content).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I would say the Book of Mormon is unintentional parody maybe…well, it surely was written with the Book of Isaiah on the desk, which strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God with its all-encompassing perspective which you can clearly detect here and there in the Bible.

    It seems to be a story of two people, Lamanites and Nephites, who continuously fight each other – more than anyone in the Bible – for no clear, convincing reasons (like Russia presently, they don’t seem to have clear war goals whose achievements could end the conflict). This theme soon becomes rather repetitive, for which reason I called it “dull”.
    The Book lacks clear bad guys; Baal does not exist anymore and “Satan has power over men because scriptures are missing” according to my concordance referring to Nephi 1, 13:29. “Scriptures are missing” is not really the grandiose vision of the Bible.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God
     
    The unevenness of the OT text suggests that it was a work of man, or, rather, of many men, some highly intelligent and talented, some not so much. The same can be said about the four canonical Gospels: two were written by wise and benign men, one by a decent intelligent fellow, and one by not particularly smart and very aggressive person. The rest of NT is also very uneven, suggesting multiple authors.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  609. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Hemingway is a great writer.

    A Farewell to Arms https://g.co/kgs/S4aJFH

    For Whom the Bell Tolls https://g.co/kgs/88Da8G

    Your next assignment(s) ?

    😉

    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway's ethos is similar to London's in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.

    We had London's complete writings, and several Hemingway's books in our family collection when I was growing up. That's one of the things I miss - our wonderful bookshelves...

    BTW, did you watch "Into the Wild ?"

    Into the Wild https://g.co/kgs/CCFxi3

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Yahya

    I’m a huge fan of Jack London. Read most of his stuff.

    His wilderness stuff of course is best known and is great, but his more “serious” novels and travelogues are great as well, as are his quasi sci-fi novels.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  610. @LatW
    @LatW


    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).
     
    And, by the way, Zelensky's visit to London was only the beginning - the foundation has been laid, the next visit for Zelensky is with Scholz and Macron (they will most likely talk about jets), then there is another Ramstein meeting and then the Munich security conference. So eventually, by February 24, the one year anniversary of this horrific war, a final, crucial decision could be made to help Ukraine finish this.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Sean, @LondonBob

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Please tell me you are not serious.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    They're fighting it past the limit that Russians care about dominating Ukraine, as you'll find out.

    , @sudden death
    @QCIC

    With this kind of Z-logic it can be said as well about the course of WWII - Nazi Germany was fighting all the war below the limit of her capabilities, because never used the stocks of chemical shells/bombs at the fronts despite having more than enough at the time;)

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    , @AP
    @QCIC


    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?
     
    Of course not, they are not fighting this war under conditions of total war as they did during World War II. Why would they? Ukraine isn’t going to take Moscow and exterminate half the Russians if it wins.

    But Russia is fighting this war no less seriously than, say, the USA fought the Iraq War. Even more seriously, because America never implemented the draft but Russia has had a partial mobilization and both in terms of raw numbers and relative to population Rysdia has committed far more troops. America (population around 280 million in 2000) invaded Iraq with 160,000 troops plus 45,000 British allies. Russia (population 144 million) invaded Ukraine with 180,000 plus 60,000 Donbas militia.

    Russia’s efforts have since increased of course, and it has committed at least around 500,000 troops. Had Russia not done so it would have been driven out of most of the territory it had captured.

    America conquered and occupied all of Iraq including Baghdad in about 5 weeks. After a year, Russia has only managed to take and hold around 15% of Ukraine despite its escalation in forces.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

  611. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    Back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler's ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it's all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Are you on drugs, Mr. Hack? You are just spouting pure nonsense – the only thing I can figure out is your pathological hatred for anything “Russian”. Ok, hate all you want, it has never got anyone anywhere, but wouldn’t you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?

    Or are you so stupid that you think you would continue munching on tacos in Phoenix as Russia is nuked? I find your idiocy quite scary….if there are many like you, it will go completely nuts. Go for a long walk and stop the mindless hatred, it is a sad spectacle…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    You seem to be the one who sees "hatred for anything Russian" in the text of any comment that highlights the follies of Putler's war in Ukraine. Where did I even hint at any hatred towards Russians within my comment? One of my favorite commenters at this blogsite is a Russian, "Ivashka the Fool", with whom I agree with a lot of his opinions, even about this war.


    but wouldn’t you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?
     
    My comment was intended to relate to an A-bomb being detonated in Ukraine, not Russia (I really don't understand how you misunderstood this, you're usually a bit sharper than this?) But in another sense, you're correct, because such a catastrophe in Ukraine would most likely spill over into Russia too. And how many Russian soldiers within Ukraine would perish too? It doesn't appear that Putler would care though, taking into consideration how many Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine have already perished due to his irresponsible actions there.

    I think that you're the one in need of a good, long walk, tovarisch!

    Replies: @Beckow

  612. @AP
    @Beckow


    “communist trash were celebrating Hitler’s defeat”

    Sweet, and quite vulgar. Commies won WW2, hands down
     
    Indeed they did. And not only them. The biggest winners of all were the Americans.

    You hate the fact that Russians won so much that you deny it
     
    I just stated that just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler, doesn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate it either, you liar.

    Similarly, rainbow flag celebrations over a Russian loss didn’t mean that normal people shouldn’t celebrate also.

    you must be right at home among the hapless loser Poles
     
    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.

    Poles aren’t ashamed of losing in 1939…Serbs…

    Well, something like 3-5 million Poles were murdered by Germans
     
    Yes. The consequence of not being a lackey and willing servant to the Germans, like your people were.

    They got clobbered because they chose badly

     

    Yes, the natural lackey whose people were among the most enthusiastic of Germany’s allies thinks the Poles who refused German alliances and instead fought the Germans, “chose badly.”

    offered to Nazis to attack Russia together

     

    A lie, and even more stupid than your usual ones. You are claiming the Germans murdered millions of Poles because the Poles offered to be the Germans’ allies?

    Germany signed a nonaggression treaty with Germany in which each side refused to attack the other, but refused all German offers of an alliance. In contrast to your Slovakia, an eager ally that even paid with its own money for the extermination of its Jews.

    joined them in dismembering Czecho-Slovakia
     
    Separate and non coordinated actions, unlike joint German and Soviet invasion of Poland.

    Instead Germans defeated them in 3 weeks
     
    Another lie. Warsaw was taken in 4 weeks and the country was occupied in 5-6.

    A defeat in a war is a defeat: if a country goes to war and comes out of it smaller (20%?) and loses tens of thousands men and infrastructure – it is generally considered a defeat
     
    It depends on the aim. Russia’s aim was keep Donbas and Crimea, and to turn Ukraine into a demilitarized non-independent puppet state, Ukraine’s to avoid that fate. If Ukraine loses 15% of its territory (16% if/when Russia takes Bakhmut) but is free to pursue total de-Russification of the rest, to join the EU, and to have a powerful military than it is at least a draw.

    Did Germany win WW2 because it kept Saxony
     
    You are really desperate if you compare the total occupation and division of Germany to the loss of the Crimean corridor.

    Replies: @Beckow

    … just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler

    You are one sick puppy…you can’t bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2…we know your type. You evade, spin, put qualifiers, but you really can’t live with the reality that Russia won – so you make up lying narratives, add irrelevant stuff, anything but directly state what happened: Russia won WW2. Can you try to say it?

    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.

    The new territory wasn’t populated by Poles either – it would be appropriate to return it, since Poland rejects and deeply resents Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles (who lost in 5 weeks?) It is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic shouldn’t be rewarded. Poland should shrink to only the areas that were populated by Poles in 1945, no Silesia or Pomerania, no half of East Prussia – time to give it back.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    you can’t bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2
     
    Commies won World War II. Russians lost millions of people thanks to Commie incompetence, and then had to live under shitty Sovok conditions for generations, while the Germans whom they defeated prospered.

    But the biggest winners of all were the Americans. They will also be the biggest winners of this idiotic adventure by Putin (though the Chinese will be a close second).

    Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles
     
    No, cowardly would be what your people did - refuse to fight the mighty Germans, and serve them as lackeys instead.

    Poles chose to fight which was the opposite of cowardly.

    is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic
     
    The ingratitude is from the Russians. If Poland had chosen to accept the German offers of an alliance and had behaved as Slovakia did - becoming a German ally - then the Soviets would have lost. Instead Poland sacrificed millions of people because it chose to resist the Nazis, and as a result the spectacularly incompetent Soviets managed to eventually win.

    Replies: @Beckow

  613. @QCIC
    @LatW

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Please tell me you are not serious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @AP

    They’re fighting it past the limit that Russians care about dominating Ukraine, as you’ll find out.

  614. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Hemingway is a great writer.

    A Farewell to Arms https://g.co/kgs/S4aJFH

    For Whom the Bell Tolls https://g.co/kgs/88Da8G

    Your next assignment(s) ?

    😉

    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway's ethos is similar to London's in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.

    We had London's complete writings, and several Hemingway's books in our family collection when I was growing up. That's one of the things I miss - our wonderful bookshelves...

    BTW, did you watch "Into the Wild ?"

    Into the Wild https://g.co/kgs/CCFxi3

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Yahya

    Your next assignment(s) ?

    I know you’re joking; but please, cut out the condescension.

    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.

    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway’s ethos is similar to London’s in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.

    That’s funny; because there’s a certain other Russian who admires both these authors: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vladimir-putins-reading-list

    Do you like Jules Verne as well, Pynya?

    ——

    I am also a fan of Jack London’s novels.

    Call Of The Wild was the first novel to captivate my interest from beginning to end.

    I recall the lingering impact it left for weeks after I finished reading it.

    London was a gifted writer. He an inborn dramatic instinct; and a rare aesthetic sensitiveness.

    He was also a master of constructing sentences; every word was perceptively chosen and elegantly ordered.

    It’s instructive to compare him to his fellow socialist contemporary across the Atlantic.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.

    London’s essays were characteristically elegant but ultimately wrong-headed and superficial.

    Orwell’s essays rank alongside Mencken and Johnson for wisdom and clarity.

    On the other hand, his novels lacked the transcendent quality of superior novelists.

    BTW, did you watch “Into the Wild ?”

    No. Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

    • Agree: HeavilyMarbledSteak
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.
     
    I agree. And we get some experience, which sometimes makes a difference and sometimes doesn't.

    Do you like Jules Verne as well
     
    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures. I was seven years old. The same year, I followed with L'île mystérieuse, and Les enfants du Capitaine Grant, completing the trilogy.

    Pynya
     
    VVP's nicknames from the Piter's criminal 90ies were "the dwarf" and "the moth". Pynya is a relatively recent one, originating in the Russian nationalist internet discussions.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.
     
    I think both were excellent writers, they just had different styles. I don't think we can compare The Iron Heel with 1984. And the times have also changed a lot between London's and Orwell's anti-utopias. Also, I consider The Animal Farm a true masterpiece. I think Orwell should be compared to Zamyatin, who might have inspired him to write 1984 .

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/freedom-and-happiness-review-of-we-by-yevgeny-zamyatin/

    Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

     

    If you watch the movie, tell me what you thought of it.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  615. @QCIC
    @LatW

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Please tell me you are not serious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @AP

    With this kind of Z-logic it can be said as well about the course of WWII – Nazi Germany was fighting all the war below the limit of her capabilities, because never used the stocks of chemical shells/bombs at the fronts despite having more than enough at the time;)

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    German demobilized their infantry twice in ww2. Germany did not convert to full war production until very late in 1943. Long after it had probably lost.

    Britain was on full war footing in 1940.
    USSR was cranking out war machines in 1941 in a fully planned war economy.

    , @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    German demobilized their infantry twice in ww2. Germany did not convert to full war production until very late in 1943. Long after it had probably lost.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

    It's extraordinary in retrospect that the Germans failed to make more of the Panzer IV in 1941.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman

    https://www.statista.com/chart/8269/industrial-production-tanks-second-world-war/

    20,000 shermans made before end of...1943

    , @QCIC
    @sudden death

    Comparisons to WW2 Germany are a stretch.

    Russia has massive nuclear and naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine--yet. Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little. Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis. Russia has lots of conventional military resources across the vast country which have not yet been committed to the SMO.

    At this point, I think Russia may be starting to feel trapped, but not in the way the Ukrainian backers think. I see the SMO as a kid gloves reconquista of Ukraine. Use of the kid gloves is a slightly risky move in exchange for a better chance of robust Russophone reunification. The longer it takes, the higher the risk the West will start trouble on some other front. If Russia is really bogged down, that second front has some chance of leading to a nuclear response. Sooner rather than later Russia may decide to use conventional weapons to level Ukraine and get it done. At that point they will be in a nuclear standoff anyway, so why postpone the inevitable?

    Replies: @sudden death

  616. @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I always liked Hemingway just fine, and Old Man and The Sea is one of my favorite short novellas.

    It’s been a while though, and I think I may have to pick it up again.

    Aaron, you should give Hemingway another chance. He isn’t so bad!

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    Well, everyone is coming down on Hemingway's side so I think I have no choice but to give him another chance :) I will check out Old Man and the Sea and report back, sir.

    Still, though, Hemingway was wrong to attack Dickens style - that I will not accept. I understand why he did it, he needed to emancipate himself from the crushing influence of the Victorians in order to develop his own unique voice, and perhaps each generation is unfair to it's predecessors and sees itself in competition with it.

    But today perhaps we can appreciate the unique contribution of both!

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  617. @Beckow
    @S


    ...a great many of the prog mentality have become wholly detached from reality
     
    That's the core problem today. Prog-libs can't accept reality so they gradually move away from it - or like our Leave no Shadow optimist, they fatalistically embrace it, paint it rosy, probably thinking that if they sell it with upbeat verbiage and promises of miracles, they will get a few more years. Biden seems very much from that 'damn it, I just need a few more good years, so shut up!!!' school of liberalism.

    I would also point out that a lot of the current progressive collapse into complete idiocy has to do with their basic incompetence and laziness: clean water and air require lots of work - blabbing about "climate change" almost none. Good working and living conditions also require actual hard work - preaching about equity requires nothing. What came first, the idiocy of by-any-means-necessary fanatics or their laziness I can't always tell - they seem to go together.

    I am still not convinced that they will blow it up in a global apocalypse. It is increasingly possible, but we need a few more escalations - e.g. the dumb Poles marching into Galicia (or Belarus). If it happens, we need to remember that the "end" of turning Ukraine into an armed Nato camp against Russia was worth the "means"...the progressives will glow in the dark and be happy...the satanic Russians will also perish (AP will call it a "win" as he turns into hot air).

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    Not much connected , but all this Olympics talk did amuse me. Its a truly on-the-floor with laughter movement if a coalition of losers and retards(Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics )- actually boycotts the Olympics whilst noone else does and Russian sportsstars can compete and win alot of medals ( except being formally under neutral flag). These freaks are obsessed with status (or the illusion of status) to compensate for their loser lives, so I think if this situation does occur it could do some other good like the total humiliation of seeing them boycott the Olympics with nobody else being interested at all or missing them in any way – this could eventually be the first step towards making sane decision in the political field.

    I think its essential for womens sports in the Olympics that Russian and Belarus sportstars can go because the same sheep-like retard thinking into having the transexual freakshow enter into womans sport is not distinuguisable from that saying Russia/Belarus should be banned or a boycott ( or pointless wearing of facemasks when hiking in the mountains). A Venn diagram would probably 90% overlap.

    This is where it being held in France is a big advantage – because obviously France can’t boycott it and the main European countries can’t insult France by threatening to boycott it either . Canada has become good at the Olympics and would normally be expected to join in the boycott threat with the Ukronazi cabal, but because of its own French links this is not likely.

    If the IOC, who have behaved like trash in the last 8 years, stand their ground then I feel this could be a very big – although I am very surprised the Americans seem to be allowing us. There must be some trick, like allowing all the other countries in the qualifier tournaments to not allow Russians visas to compete and so not qualify for the Olympics.
    The coalition of retards is obviously a joke on its own. Bulgaria, Romania , Gruzia and even the over-achieving in sports Czechs and Slovaks also boycotting would not be a disaster. The scandinavian paedophiles boycotting , which sure could be possible would be no loss although would certainly give credibility to the boycott. Conformist Japan would certainly be an important boycotter – but if US aren’t doing it then they certainly would not.

  618. @sudden death
    @QCIC

    With this kind of Z-logic it can be said as well about the course of WWII - Nazi Germany was fighting all the war below the limit of her capabilities, because never used the stocks of chemical shells/bombs at the fronts despite having more than enough at the time;)

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    German demobilized their infantry twice in ww2. Germany did not convert to full war production until very late in 1943. Long after it had probably lost.

    Britain was on full war footing in 1940.
    USSR was cranking out war machines in 1941 in a fully planned war economy.

  619. @sudden death
    @QCIC

    With this kind of Z-logic it can be said as well about the course of WWII - Nazi Germany was fighting all the war below the limit of her capabilities, because never used the stocks of chemical shells/bombs at the fronts despite having more than enough at the time;)

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    German demobilized their infantry twice in ww2. Germany did not convert to full war production until very late in 1943. Long after it had probably lost.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

    It’s extraordinary in retrospect that the Germans failed to make more of the Panzer IV in 1941.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman

    https://www.statista.com/chart/8269/industrial-production-tanks-second-world-war/

    20,000 shermans made before end of…1943

  620. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    I would say the Book of Mormon is unintentional parody maybe...well, it surely was written with the Book of Isaiah on the desk, which strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God with its all-encompassing perspective which you can clearly detect here and there in the Bible.

    It seems to be a story of two people, Lamanites and Nephites, who continuously fight each other - more than anyone in the Bible - for no clear, convincing reasons (like Russia presently, they don't seem to have clear war goals whose achievements could end the conflict). This theme soon becomes rather repetitive, for which reason I called it "dull".
    The Book lacks clear bad guys; Baal does not exist anymore and "Satan has power over men because scriptures are missing" according to my concordance referring to Nephi 1, 13:29. "Scriptures are missing" is not really the grandiose vision of the Bible.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God

    The unevenness of the OT text suggests that it was a work of man, or, rather, of many men, some highly intelligent and talented, some not so much. The same can be said about the four canonical Gospels: two were written by wise and benign men, one by a decent intelligent fellow, and one by not particularly smart and very aggressive person. The rest of NT is also very uneven, suggesting multiple authors.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    Yes, people wrote. But who set the themes which go on and on ..?

    For example, reading OT one will notice that 'cult of idols" goes together with sexual deviance (eg. the Book of Judges).

    Knowing this, you can recognize that Revelation 16:2 is a continuation of this theme, so LGBT would be the most likely recipients of the Rev 16.2 plague.

    "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

  621. @Beckow
    @AP


    ... just because Communist trash celebrated victory over Hitler
     
    You are one sick puppy...you can't bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2...we know your type. You evade, spin, put qualifiers, but you really can't live with the reality that Russia won - so you make up lying narratives, add irrelevant stuff, anything but directly state what happened: Russia won WW2. Can you try to say it?

    Poland lost territory that mostly wasn’t populated by Poles anyways, but gained a lot of valuable territory such as Silesia.
     
    The new territory wasn't populated by Poles either - it would be appropriate to return it, since Poland rejects and deeply resents Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles (who lost in 5 weeks?) It is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic shouldn't be rewarded. Poland should shrink to only the areas that were populated by Poles in 1945, no Silesia or Pomerania, no half of East Prussia - time to give it back.

    Replies: @AP

    you can’t bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2

    Commies won World War II. Russians lost millions of people thanks to Commie incompetence, and then had to live under shitty Sovok conditions for generations, while the Germans whom they defeated prospered.

    But the biggest winners of all were the Americans. They will also be the biggest winners of this idiotic adventure by Putin (though the Chinese will be a close second).

    Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles

    No, cowardly would be what your people did – refuse to fight the mighty Germans, and serve them as lackeys instead.

    Poles chose to fight which was the opposite of cowardly.

    is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic

    The ingratitude is from the Russians. If Poland had chosen to accept the German offers of an alliance and had behaved as Slovakia did – becoming a German ally – then the Soviets would have lost. Instead Poland sacrificed millions of people because it chose to resist the Nazis, and as a result the spectacularly incompetent Soviets managed to eventually win.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...If Poland...
     
    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934. They even called it a Non-aggression Treaty (just like 5 years later M-R). They got screwed, Germany played them and then proceeded to massacre them.

    But "what-if" history is pointless, an escape for people like you who can't accept real history. Your If has all the relevance of a melted snowman - what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland - no other country was going to do it. Poles - and you - will never forgive Russia for doing it. But it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945 - there were no Poles living there and it was the Poles who brutally expelled the 5-6 million Germans civilians. How about that, you hate Russia, why are you keeping what they gave you? No honor?

    Replies: @AP

  622. @Barbarossa
    @Yahya

    I always liked Hemingway just fine, and Old Man and The Sea is one of my favorite short novellas.

    It's been a while though, and I think I may have to pick it up again.

    Aaron, you should give Hemingway another chance. He isn't so bad!

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, everyone is coming down on Hemingway’s side so I think I have no choice but to give him another chance 🙂 I will check out Old Man and the Sea and report back, sir.

    Still, though, Hemingway was wrong to attack Dickens style – that I will not accept. I understand why he did it, he needed to emancipate himself from the crushing influence of the Victorians in order to develop his own unique voice, and perhaps each generation is unfair to it’s predecessors and sees itself in competition with it.

    But today perhaps we can appreciate the unique contribution of both!

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    perhaps each generation is unfair to it’s predecessors and sees itself in competition with it.
     
    I think this is true. It's better to appreciate what the past has given us while being able to continue our own fruitful work for the next generation to take on. I would say that a world with both Dickens and Hemingway is better than a world full of clones of either!
  623. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Are you on drugs, Mr. Hack? You are just spouting pure nonsense - the only thing I can figure out is your pathological hatred for anything "Russian". Ok, hate all you want, it has never got anyone anywhere, but wouldn't you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?

    Or are you so stupid that you think you would continue munching on tacos in Phoenix as Russia is nuked? I find your idiocy quite scary....if there are many like you, it will go completely nuts. Go for a long walk and stop the mindless hatred, it is a sad spectacle...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    You seem to be the one who sees “hatred for anything Russian” in the text of any comment that highlights the follies of Putler’s war in Ukraine. Where did I even hint at any hatred towards Russians within my comment? One of my favorite commenters at this blogsite is a Russian, “Ivashka the Fool”, with whom I agree with a lot of his opinions, even about this war.

    but wouldn’t you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?

    My comment was intended to relate to an A-bomb being detonated in Ukraine, not Russia (I really don’t understand how you misunderstood this, you’re usually a bit sharper than this?) But in another sense, you’re correct, because such a catastrophe in Ukraine would most likely spill over into Russia too. And how many Russian soldiers within Ukraine would perish too? It doesn’t appear that Putler would care though, taking into consideration how many Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine have already perished due to his irresponsible actions there.

    I think that you’re the one in need of a good, long walk, tovarisch!

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    In your short incoherent paragraph there were 5-6 negative to hateful Russian references - that says it all, your defensivness is silly. It is pretty pathological and if it doesn't reflect your thinking you may want to consider less venom.

    There was no geographic reference to your "radioactive" point and the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington - and Phoenix - would be next. Do you get that?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack

  624. @QCIC
    @LatW

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Please tell me you are not serious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @AP

    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?

    Of course not, they are not fighting this war under conditions of total war as they did during World War II. Why would they? Ukraine isn’t going to take Moscow and exterminate half the Russians if it wins.

    But Russia is fighting this war no less seriously than, say, the USA fought the Iraq War. Even more seriously, because America never implemented the draft but Russia has had a partial mobilization and both in terms of raw numbers and relative to population Rysdia has committed far more troops. America (population around 280 million in 2000) invaded Iraq with 160,000 troops plus 45,000 British allies. Russia (population 144 million) invaded Ukraine with 180,000 plus 60,000 Donbas militia.

    Russia’s efforts have since increased of course, and it has committed at least around 500,000 troops. Had Russia not done so it would have been driven out of most of the territory it had captured.

    America conquered and occupied all of Iraq including Baghdad in about 5 weeks. After a year, Russia has only managed to take and hold around 15% of Ukraine despite its escalation in forces.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Let us rewind this a little.

    1991. Operation Gulf Storm. 500,000 American troops eject Iraq from Kuwait.

    for 10 years the US bomb, starve and undermine Iraq with UN complicity.

    2003 The US finally invades a crippled Iraq with 190,000 troops + 45,000 British troops.

    for a decade the US occupy Iraq at a cost of around 40,000 casualties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

    You gotta give the Russians a little time here.

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @QCIC
    @AP

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so. After what happened post-1990, I think many believe this is effectively extermination. This fight is not really about Ukraine which would have never been pulled so far away from Russia without being part of a greater Western/Nato plan.

    The USA war on Iraq was the world's largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine. In retrospect, it is surprising that adventure took such a high percentage of USA military resources. I wonder if the reasons are two fold. First, there were absolutely no threats for the USA to worry about (including Iraq) so any resources could safely be committed to the war. Second, the civilian tolerance for military casualties was extremely low, so applying maximum 'overmatch' may have been a good way to meet the publicity requirement.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO. I do not believe this is because of MANPADS or a few remaining serious Ukrainian SAMS.

    Replies: @AP

  625. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Agree with the first paragraph but not with the second, which implies that the two sides are more or less equally to blame for this catastrophe.

    RusFed is the country that invaded, that is responsible for this terrible war.

    The corrupted RusFed hierarchy aside, there are decent people from among the regular priesthood:



    https://twitter.com/burbalka/status/1623353146864021504?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623297435907813376?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    https://twitter.com/orthodoxnews2/status/1623298533825646592?s=46&t=iIOGs2hitoFWN52ztDrsUA

    Replies: @Sean, @Mr. Hack

    I’ll have to agree with you here. I think that ITF needs to explain just how exactly he seems to equate equal responsibility for this war between Russia and Ukraine, when it’s very clear that it was Russia that first stepped over Ukraine’s border and started this war.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland's kosher cookies. Then the Donbassers were lured into the fight by Girkin - the "Russian Patriot" who has been photographed with Karl Von Habsburg.

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1406661/1406661_600.jpg

    (When we know who founded Billingcat it all becomes even more interesting).

    RusFed and Ukiestan are the pseudo-countries that are instrumental in the Globalist drive towards the "Final Solution of the Slav Problem". The FSSP will open vast territories and provide important natural ressources to the Globalists after the Great Reset.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war. It just confirms that Ibn Khaldun was right when ranking Saqaliba (Slavs) as just a bit higher than the Zunuj (Sub-Saharan Blacks) on the solidarity based social organization ability scale.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya have pitched brothers against each other as someone would pitch against each other two dogs.

    Ah yeah, before I forget: I think that Lyakhs being just as gullible as their Russian and Ukrainian cousins, might also be idiotic enough to proudly join the fray.

    While the Globalist gleefully rub their hands.

    Nothing has changed since the Drang nach Osten and the Mongolian invasion times. Slavs are unable to understand their broad interests.

    Alas...

    🤷‍♂️

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  626. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    strongly suggests it was a work of man, and not God
     
    The unevenness of the OT text suggests that it was a work of man, or, rather, of many men, some highly intelligent and talented, some not so much. The same can be said about the four canonical Gospels: two were written by wise and benign men, one by a decent intelligent fellow, and one by not particularly smart and very aggressive person. The rest of NT is also very uneven, suggesting multiple authors.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Yes, people wrote. But who set the themes which go on and on ..?

    For example, reading OT one will notice that ‘cult of idols” goes together with sexual deviance (eg. the Book of Judges).

    Knowing this, you can recognize that Revelation 16:2 is a continuation of this theme, so LGBT would be the most likely recipients of the Rev 16.2 plague.

    “And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.”

  627. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Yahya

    Thank you.

    Even as I was writing it I thought perhaps I was being a bit too harsh on Hemingway. I've read a few things of his years ago which I enjoyed immensely, but as I continued exploring his oevre I somehow began to lose interest. But I agree he has some excellent pieces.

    The Old Man and the Sea was something I had to read in 9th grade, and I remember none of it :) Your description sounds very enticing though, so I shall have to revisit to it.

    Hemingway wrote in the era of Existentialism, which in my opinion was the last dying gasp - the death-rattle, really - of the old religious sensibility, and while I agree that he hasn't quite lost his relevance yet I am undecided if existentialism, or the penultimate stage before nihilism, will turn out to be of lasting and timeless importance. Perhaps it will.

    For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle - I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture.

    Likewise, the idea that this is what God put him on the earth to do - blindly hunt, eat, out of "blind instinct", etc. There is the residue of a higher religious sensibility there but it also strikes me as a step on the path to nihilism.

    The descriptions of the fish utterly loyal to it's mate, and humans perhaps being unworthy to hunt such noble animals are, I agree, very fine :) Likewise the ones about the hawk and the turtle and the sympathy for natural creatures and all life that this evinces - these are good things.

    In the end, I think Hemingway was supremely important as a " cultural moment" - and he can fulfill the same function today to anyone in the same state of mind as the early 20th century West - but I am not entirely sure he represents something of timeless importance. But perhaps I am wrong, and you make an excellent point that he is still highly relevant today - after all, we are still stuck in nihilism, so the stages to it are still relevant :)

    By contrast, I increasingly think Dickens represents something of undying and timeless importance, and will be read after we've emerged from nihilism - an opinion I would have found laughable 20 years ago lol.

    But who knows? Literary reputations are famously unpredictable, and this could be no more than my prejudices.

    I will have to look again into the Old Man and the Sea - thanks!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I had read “Old Man and the Sea” but it was so long ago – it was (is?) a mandatory reading in the 7th class of the Polish elementary school! – that I scarcely remember it.
    But much later, and in English original, I read “The Sun Also Rises” and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there.

    “For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle – I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture.”

    My good friend would call it self-mythologizing (deliberately creating myths of oneself), which, he thought, is sophisticated cheating of oneself, and not entirely positive as such. It is Hemingway who does this, not the old man, though: in other words, this story is a piece of Hemingway self-mythology.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I read “The Sun Also Rises” and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there
     
    Have a strong suspicion that this novel is like a political test. With it being really liked by most of the same people who like modern art. To me, it is like a 10x worse version of The Great Gatsby.

    A Farewell to Arms is pretty depressing.

    Only Hemingway book that I would recommend (and I have read 5) is For Whom the Bell Tolls. As I think it is kind of funny, and also sociologically interesting, as Hemingway showing his communist sympathies serves to demonstrate the wider biases of other writers, and the culture in general.
    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Self-mythologizing might be the attitude of a man who has lost connection to myth but still has the habit of myth.

    I'll explain what I mean - a man who comes from a culture that has just lost it's myths and principles, but still has the old reflexes and habits formed by those myths and principles (which may last for a generation or two until they disappear entirely) - such a man, may fight for the sake of not giving in without really knowing what he's fighting for. But it's a kind of shadowboxing, a fight against shadows.

    In a sense, this is the attitude of the Existentialists - they tried to base life on absurdity. In other words, one would live as if religion, values, principles, were real and valid, all the while knowing they were not and life was merely absurd. Likewise, Nietzsche - who was an important precursor to Existentialism - said man must invent his own values (rather than discover a reality of values that exists outside of himself, which he no longer believed in).

    It was in a sense the last desperate gambit of Western civilization - a last despairing attempt to stave off nihilism - but of course it had no chance of working.

    But even though Hemingway's macho posturing might seem silly and has an air of desperation about it, it is the overcompensation of a man who has lost his center of gravity (in reality, all machine posturing is like that), and perhaps deserves our pity.

    Let us remember that Hemingway committed suicide, and evidently regarded his own life as a failure. This is not a picture of masculine flourishing. And as much as I love Jack London, he too overcompensated for the loss of the center of value in his culture by developing an overly macho persona (heavily influenced by Nietzsche's will to power) and he too committed suicide - both Hemingway and London danced at the edge of nihilism, both desperately tried to stave it off, and both ultimately succumbed. (And Nietzsche, with his will to power, went mad).

    Men truly grounded in Being don't have to hunt lions or box to prove they "exist" - that is an act of desperation. On the contrary, confident men with a true cultural center of gravity must develop codes that temper their masculinity - medieval knights developed chivalry, a code of gentleness and compassion, and Samurai developed a taste for exquisite poetry and lovely ritual, and 18th century European nobleman out conquering the world cultivated art, literature, and wore wigs and makeup and high heels lol.

    So - these late-decadent gestures may deserve our sympathy as despairing attempts to recover a lost vitality through sheer force of will, yet vitality depends on a genuine, real, connection to the objective realm of values, and cannot be summoned by an act of will.

    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  628. @Yahya
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times – and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don’t want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn’t so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He’s unreadable. But Dickens is still read – and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

     

    It's funny you mention Hemingway because I was reading Old Man And The Sea just yesterday; which I picked up randomly in a bookstore; something I rarely do (95% of what I read is on Kindle so I can copy and paste pertinent excerpts onto OneNote). I haven't read any of his other novels so I'll withhold my assessment of him as an author; but I was impressed by the Japanese-esque minimalism and pathos of "Old Man". I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad's Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy's short works.

    If you haven't read it; the story is about an old Cuban fisherman and his quest to catch a great fish. The main theme wrestles with the ethical conundrum faced by a fisherman who respects his adversary; recognizes the nobility and dignity of the fish; but is driven by pride and determination to kill the fish nonetheless. There's a poetic paragraph in the middle where Hemingway describes a previous fishing episode when he hooked in a female Marlin; who was allowed first serving of food by her male companion; and the male would not abandon the female; even jumping into the fisherman's boat after the female had been reeled in. The old man feels guilt and says that humans are unworthy of eating such a noble soul; but continues fishing regardless as it is "what God had put him on the Earth to do". Eventually he realizes that pride and nonacceptance of defeat is what drives him; moreso than feeding himself or others.

    There's also a scene where he finds two fly fishes inside the belly of a dolphin he just caught; which reminded me of Benjamin Franklin's story about renouncing his vegetarian diet after seeing smaller fish taken out of the stomach of bigger fish: "Hitherto I had stuck to my resolution of not eating animal food, and on this occasion I considered, with my master Tryon, the taking every fish as a kind of unprovoked murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any injury that might justify the slaughter. All this seemed very reasonable. But I had formerly been a great lover of fish, and when this came hot out of the frying-pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanced some time between principle and inclination, till I recollected that, when the fish were opened, I saw smaller fish taken out of their stomachs. Then thought I, "If you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you." So I dined upon cod very heartily, and continued to eat with other people, returning only now and then occasionally to a vegetable diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."

    I'm surprised you find Hemingway irrelevant and dull; given your previous statements of affection for nature and animals. Perhaps you haven't read Old Man And The Sea yet. But I think you'd like it. There are many passages where Hemingway elicits sympathy for animals and sea creatures, which even an avowed city-dweller like myself was moved by. He talks about the elegance and speed of a hawk; and the beauty of a turtle.

    https://media.istockphoto.com/id/462882495/photo/funny-sea-turtle.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=JboBJ19XWdnZ1PAiXitsqEFzhhkOvTdWkoH2JJ72tGo=

    Hemingway is far from being irrelevant and unread; his books get millions of ratings on Goodreads.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I thought it was a much better short story than Conrad’s Heart Of Darkness; but less so than some of Tolstoy’s short works.

    Ernest Hemingway was a great writer. He was abundantly masculine and has so fallen out of fashion. He boxed and hunted lions and leopards for entertainment.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  629. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I did not yet read “The Book of Mormon” but skimmed over it and it seems rather dull, and less entertaining than The Bible (especially OT).
     
    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Once I read the beginning of the Book of Mormon out of curiosity.

    Dull is not how I’d describe it. I am sure they did not mean this, but the Book of Mormon reads like an angry parody of the Bible. Apparently, someone tried to mimic the Bible, but had less talent than the least talented authors of OT chapters (for those who never read it, OT is very uneven: some chapters are excruciatingly dull, the quality of writing in some is at the level of high school student with straight Cs, but some chapters are brilliant both in terms of writing style and content).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

    The last 6 or 7 hotel rooms I was in did not have a Gideon bible. Now that everyone has 15 translations of the bible sitting in the cloud accessible from their phone I guess it is over for the Gideons.

    On their home page they claim they are still going at it so maybe I am an anomaly.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    The last 6 or 7 hotel rooms I was in did not have a Gideon bible.
     
    Interesting. I stopped specially checking, but I am pretty sure that the last US hotel room I was in (Florida, August 2022) had the Bible. I am going to check when I happen to be in a US hotel (likely in a week or two).

    Not that I am going to read it: I read the Bible twice, in Church Slavonic and in English (King James version), and I have it in both languages at home. I found a few years ago that I know the Bible much better than self-proclaimed religious Americans. Actually, I understand why most Christian sects discourage reading it: the book is full of inconsistencies. Even Ten Commandments are there twice, and a few are quite different.
  630. @AP
    @QCIC


    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?
     
    Of course not, they are not fighting this war under conditions of total war as they did during World War II. Why would they? Ukraine isn’t going to take Moscow and exterminate half the Russians if it wins.

    But Russia is fighting this war no less seriously than, say, the USA fought the Iraq War. Even more seriously, because America never implemented the draft but Russia has had a partial mobilization and both in terms of raw numbers and relative to population Rysdia has committed far more troops. America (population around 280 million in 2000) invaded Iraq with 160,000 troops plus 45,000 British allies. Russia (population 144 million) invaded Ukraine with 180,000 plus 60,000 Donbas militia.

    Russia’s efforts have since increased of course, and it has committed at least around 500,000 troops. Had Russia not done so it would have been driven out of most of the territory it had captured.

    America conquered and occupied all of Iraq including Baghdad in about 5 weeks. After a year, Russia has only managed to take and hold around 15% of Ukraine despite its escalation in forces.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    Let us rewind this a little.

    1991. Operation Gulf Storm. 500,000 American troops eject Iraq from Kuwait.

    for 10 years the US bomb, starve and undermine Iraq with UN complicity.

    2003 The US finally invades a crippled Iraq with 190,000 troops + 45,000 British troops.

    for a decade the US occupy Iraq at a cost of around 40,000 casualties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

    You gotta give the Russians a little time here.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Wokechoke

    Hypothetically, what if Russia did the shock and awe campaign people seem to dream about? Imagine beyond all reason they captured Kiev with a tiny force, how do you think things would have played out? Assuming they installed an illegitimate government to create a transition, it would have caused massive heavily-armed guerrilla war and fighting and chaos across the country. It is not something I can visualize, it is just too far from reality. This may have been what the leaders in the West expected since they are not tied to the reality-based universe. Piles of bodies on every street corner in the entire country, not just the East.

    What else could they have done? Perhaps they should have implemented a heavy blitzkrieg missile and air campaign on Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa and destroyed 50% of the critical infrastructure of the country immediately? Hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in a week. What would have happened? The West would have become directly involved, creating a major war for sure. Neither side was prepared for it, so a huge bloody quagmire results. 1000x worse than Viet Nam or Iraq. Some chance of a nuclear exchange or worse.

    What is left? They started with a gentle stick and probably carrot approach. Send in a moderate force, put the troops in harm's way to show they are serious, and try to get some sort of semi-legitimate settlement. We don't have the details, but it seems like this may have happened at the beginning. They knew it wouldn't work and I think they did it for posterity. It didn't work, so what comes next?

    Bleed the resistance dry. NeoNazi's, nationalists, the military, the oligarchs and Nato. Once the resistance has died down they will force a semi-legitimate settlement which can be grown into something legitimate over time. I think it was their least-bad option. It seems that it took time for the Russian leadership to fully "own" this approach.

    Will it work? Who knows! I think the longer it goes on the more fury builds up in Russia toward the West.

  631. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Your next assignment(s) ?
     
    I know you’re joking; but please, cut out the condescension.

    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.


    I am a also a huge fan of Jack London. Hemingway’s ethos is similar to London’s in my opinion. I spent days immersed in their novels.
     
    That’s funny; because there’s a certain other Russian who admires both these authors: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vladimir-putins-reading-list

    Do you like Jules Verne as well, Pynya?

    ——

    I am also a fan of Jack London’s novels.

    Call Of The Wild was the first novel to captivate my interest from beginning to end.

    I recall the lingering impact it left for weeks after I finished reading it.

    London was a gifted writer. He an inborn dramatic instinct; and a rare aesthetic sensitiveness.

    He was also a master of constructing sentences; every word was perceptively chosen and elegantly ordered.

    It’s instructive to compare him to his fellow socialist contemporary across the Atlantic.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.

    London’s essays were characteristically elegant but ultimately wrong-headed and superficial.

    Orwell’s essays rank alongside Mencken and Johnson for wisdom and clarity.

    On the other hand, his novels lacked the transcendent quality of superior novelists.


    BTW, did you watch “Into the Wild ?”
     
    No. Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.

    I agree. And we get some experience, which sometimes makes a difference and sometimes doesn’t.

    Do you like Jules Verne as well

    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures. I was seven years old. The same year, I followed with L’île mystérieuse, and Les enfants du Capitaine Grant, completing the trilogy.

    Pynya

    VVP’s nicknames from the Piter’s criminal 90ies were “the dwarf” and “the moth”. Pynya is a relatively recent one, originating in the Russian nationalist internet discussions.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.

    I think both were excellent writers, they just had different styles. I don’t think we can compare The Iron Heel with 1984. And the times have also changed a lot between London’s and Orwell’s anti-utopias. Also, I consider The Animal Farm a true masterpiece. I think Orwell should be compared to Zamyatin, who might have inspired him to write 1984 .

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/freedom-and-happiness-review-of-we-by-yevgeny-zamyatin/

    Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

    If you watch the movie, tell me what you thought of it.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures.
     
    Right before he croaked Michael Aquino gave a three hour interview to an obscure podcaster. He said Jules Verne's book and Disney's movie were the first big things in his life. Bigger than mom and dad or anything for a very long time. His goal in life was always to be Captain Nemo. Long after chronological adulthood had arrived for him.

    Ghislaine Maxwell is also a huge fan. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  632. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I had read "Old Man and the Sea" but it was so long ago - it was (is?) a mandatory reading in the 7th class of the Polish elementary school! - that I scarcely remember it.
    But much later, and in English original, I read "The Sun Also Rises" and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there.

    "For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle – I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture."

    My good friend would call it self-mythologizing (deliberately creating myths of oneself), which, he thought, is sophisticated cheating of oneself, and not entirely positive as such. It is Hemingway who does this, not the old man, though: in other words, this story is a piece of Hemingway self-mythology.

    Replies: @songbird, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I read “The Sun Also Rises” and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there

    Have a strong suspicion that this novel is like a political test. With it being really liked by most of the same people who like modern art. To me, it is like a 10x worse version of The Great Gatsby.

    A Farewell to Arms is pretty depressing.

    Only Hemingway book that I would recommend (and I have read 5) is For Whom the Bell Tolls. As I think it is kind of funny, and also sociologically interesting, as Hemingway showing his communist sympathies serves to demonstrate the wider biases of other writers, and the culture in general.

  633. @Mr. Hack
    @AP

    I'll have to agree with you here. I think that ITF needs to explain just how exactly he seems to equate equal responsibility for this war between Russia and Ukraine, when it's very clear that it was Russia that first stepped over Ukraine's border and started this war.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies. Then the Donbassers were lured into the fight by Girkin – the “Russian Patriot” who has been photographed with Karl Von Habsburg.

    (When we know who founded Billingcat it all becomes even more interesting).

    RusFed and Ukiestan are the pseudo-countries that are instrumental in the Globalist drive towards the “Final Solution of the Slav Problem”. The FSSP will open vast territories and provide important natural ressources to the Globalists after the Great Reset.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war. It just confirms that Ibn Khaldun was right when ranking Saqaliba (Slavs) as just a bit higher than the Zunuj (Sub-Saharan Blacks) on the solidarity based social organization ability scale.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya have pitched brothers against each other as someone would pitch against each other two dogs.

    Ah yeah, before I forget: I think that Lyakhs being just as gullible as their Russian and Ukrainian cousins, might also be idiotic enough to proudly join the fray.

    While the Globalist gleefully rub their hands.

    Nothing has changed since the Drang nach Osten and the Mongolian invasion times. Slavs are unable to understand their broad interests.

    Alas…

    🤷‍♂️

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies.
     
    Do you really believe what you wrote here? Do you really think that tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizenry was lured to protest for months on end on cold Ukrainian streets, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred demonstrators, all for "Viky Nuland's kosher cookies"? You don't think that many Ukrainians were really fed up with Yanukovych's corruption, etc. and had legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Remember the demonstrators in Moscow that you've so poignantly written about here, that met similar fates for expressing similar opinions on Moscow's streets? Did they also need "cookies" or other inducements to make their tragic stand?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan
     
    The first country to place troops in the other country was Russia, which placed troops in Ukraine in 2014. That was when a war started, and Russia initiated it.

    It became a major war in 2022, when Russia invaded. This, too, was Russia's decision.

    There is no equivalence.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war
     
    Defending against invaders isn't a war of choice but it is a noble thing to do. But there is certainly nothing noble or glorious about invading and killing one's neighboring country.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya
     
    Muscovites have been slaughtering Slavs for a long, long time. They wiped out the people of Novgorod, now they want to do the same to Ukraine. The West and China benefit, but this Muscovite tradition predates those enemies. Andrei Bogolubsky sacked Kiev in the 1169:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Kiev_(1169)

    After the long siege, the defenders of the city surrendered on 8 March, 1169. According to the ancient tradition and unwritten rules of Rus', the people of Kyiv believed that the new prince came to rule the capital, so they decided to rely on the mercy of the victors. "Mercy" turned out to be ruthless as Kyiv was subjected to unprecedented devastation for two days, neither women nor children were spared. Properties and residential neighborhoods were looted, a large number of churches and monasteries were burned. Not only private property was taken out of Kyiv, but also icons, chasubles and bells. The Holy Icon of the Mother of God was also stolen – it would later be called the "Vladimir Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary" and become the greatest shrine of the Russian Empire.[4] For the first time in centuries, the "mother of Rus' cities" was so ruthlessly destroyed. Kyiv has not yet suffered such destruction even from the Polovtsians.



    According to Lev Gumilev, the Kyiv pogrom testified to the loss of a sense of ethnic and state unity with Rus' among the population of eastern Rus'.[5] In 1169, after capturing Kyiv, Andrey gave the city for three days of looting and plundering to his soldiers. It was accepted to treat cities this way only when dealing with foreign settlements – until now. Such a practice has never spread to Rus' cities under any circumstances by that time. Andrey Bogolyubsky's order shows, from Lev Gumilev's point of view, that for him and his army (that is, Suzdal, Chernihiv and Smolyan soldiers) Kyiv was as foreign as any German or Polish castle.[5]

    The assumption that Andrey Bogolyubsky was creating a new state in the east and had not claimed the throne of Kyiv is backed up by the fact that he did not remain in power in Kyiv after his conquest. The Russian historian Klyuchevsky called the Suzdal prince Andrei Bogolyubsky the first prince of the future Muscovites: "With Andrey Bogolyubsky, velikoros (the russian) had entered the historical arena."[6] This is confirmed by the chronicles: they call the Galician-Volyn prince Roman Mstislavych "the autocrat of all Rus'", while Andrey Bogolyubsky is called "the autocrat of the whole Suzdal land."

    From Russian wiki:

    The throne of Kiev was transferred to the younger brother of Andrei Bogolyubsky - Gleb Yurievich Pereyaslavsky. In 1170, Bogolyubsky sent troops under the leadership of his son Mstislav with Smolensk, Ryazan and Murom to Novgorod, where the son of the prince expelled from Kiev, Roman Mstislavich, still reigned. The formal reason was the dispute over the "Dvina duty", which Novgorod received from the Finno-Ugric tribes and which from 1169 the Dvina people began to pay to Suzdal. On February 22, 1170, the Allies surrounded the city, but Novgorod survived. Then Andrei Bogolyubsky applied an economic blockade against Novgorod, and six months later the Novgorodians asked for peace and the prince to the throne.

    Meanwhile, Mstislav, having gathered troops, in early 1170 went to Kiev. Gleb Yurievich, not having the support of the local population and the strength to defend himself, withdrew to Pereyaslavl and sent to the Cumans for help, and his rival entered the city. However, Mstislav's stay in Kiev was short. Once again leaving the grand ducal table and heading to Volhynia for new troops, Mstislav fell ill and died (1170). Gleb died soon after (1171; presumably poisoned, as was his father Yuri Dolgoruky). By order of Bogolyubsky, Roman Rostislavich occupied the Kiev table, but after refusing to investigate Gleb's death, he was sent by Andrei back to Smolensk. However, Roman's younger brothers were not going to obey Andrew's decrees, telling him: "We still revered you as a father; but if you have sent to us with such speeches, not as a prince, but as a henchman, then do what you have planned, and God will judge us."

    Trying to subjugate Kiev again, Bogolyubsky sent a huge army there. For 9 weeks it unsuccessfully besieged Vyshgorod, in which Mstislav Rostislavich took refuge, and on the night of December 19, 1173, it was defeated by the army of The Lutsk prince Yaroslav Izyaslavich, recognized as the elder Rostislavich and supported by the Galicians.

    In 1174, Andrew was killed as a result of a boyar conspiracy. On the Vladimir table after the war between Andrei's relatives rose Vsevolod the Big Nest. By the end of the century, he had achieved the position of informal leader among all Russian princes, but made no attempt to personally sit in Kiev, preferring to be an arbiter in disputes for him between the South Russian princes.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  634. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN


    Virtually all hotels/motels in the US have the Bible in every room, whereas in Utah they have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
     
    The last 6 or 7 hotel rooms I was in did not have a Gideon bible. Now that everyone has 15 translations of the bible sitting in the cloud accessible from their phone I guess it is over for the Gideons.

    On their home page they claim they are still going at it so maybe I am an anomaly.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The last 6 or 7 hotel rooms I was in did not have a Gideon bible.

    Interesting. I stopped specially checking, but I am pretty sure that the last US hotel room I was in (Florida, August 2022) had the Bible. I am going to check when I happen to be in a US hotel (likely in a week or two).

    Not that I am going to read it: I read the Bible twice, in Church Slavonic and in English (King James version), and I have it in both languages at home. I found a few years ago that I know the Bible much better than self-proclaimed religious Americans. Actually, I understand why most Christian sects discourage reading it: the book is full of inconsistencies. Even Ten Commandments are there twice, and a few are quite different.

  635. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I had read "Old Man and the Sea" but it was so long ago - it was (is?) a mandatory reading in the 7th class of the Polish elementary school! - that I scarcely remember it.
    But much later, and in English original, I read "The Sun Also Rises" and this novel is nihilistic in some sense, even more than in existential one since despair does not lead to anything good there.

    "For instance, your description of the old man fighting out of pride and stubbornness and not out of any core principle – I appreciate the stoic heroism of this and the nobility of gesture, but it really is on the very cusp of nihilism, and represents the fumes of an older, more vital culture."

    My good friend would call it self-mythologizing (deliberately creating myths of oneself), which, he thought, is sophisticated cheating of oneself, and not entirely positive as such. It is Hemingway who does this, not the old man, though: in other words, this story is a piece of Hemingway self-mythology.

    Replies: @songbird, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Self-mythologizing might be the attitude of a man who has lost connection to myth but still has the habit of myth.

    I’ll explain what I mean – a man who comes from a culture that has just lost it’s myths and principles, but still has the old reflexes and habits formed by those myths and principles (which may last for a generation or two until they disappear entirely) – such a man, may fight for the sake of not giving in without really knowing what he’s fighting for. But it’s a kind of shadowboxing, a fight against shadows.

    In a sense, this is the attitude of the Existentialists – they tried to base life on absurdity. In other words, one would live as if religion, values, principles, were real and valid, all the while knowing they were not and life was merely absurd. Likewise, Nietzsche – who was an important precursor to Existentialism – said man must invent his own values (rather than discover a reality of values that exists outside of himself, which he no longer believed in).

    It was in a sense the last desperate gambit of Western civilization – a last despairing attempt to stave off nihilism – but of course it had no chance of working.

    But even though Hemingway’s macho posturing might seem silly and has an air of desperation about it, it is the overcompensation of a man who has lost his center of gravity (in reality, all machine posturing is like that), and perhaps deserves our pity.

    Let us remember that Hemingway committed suicide, and evidently regarded his own life as a failure. This is not a picture of masculine flourishing. And as much as I love Jack London, he too overcompensated for the loss of the center of value in his culture by developing an overly macho persona (heavily influenced by Nietzsche’s will to power) and he too committed suicide – both Hemingway and London danced at the edge of nihilism, both desperately tried to stave it off, and both ultimately succumbed. (And Nietzsche, with his will to power, went mad).

    Men truly grounded in Being don’t have to hunt lions or box to prove they “exist” – that is an act of desperation. On the contrary, confident men with a true cultural center of gravity must develop codes that temper their masculinity – medieval knights developed chivalry, a code of gentleness and compassion, and Samurai developed a taste for exquisite poetry and lovely ritual, and 18th century European nobleman out conquering the world cultivated art, literature, and wore wigs and makeup and high heels lol.

    So – these late-decadent gestures may deserve our sympathy as despairing attempts to recover a lost vitality through sheer force of will, yet vitality depends on a genuine, real, connection to the objective realm of values, and cannot be summoned by an act of will.

    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?
     
    Memory of it hasn't been lost but the way of life (Lebenswelt) which generated it was lost. On the other hand, maybe memory is not needed - maybe it is all about reflexes of soul, or its virtues. Born into virtues or born into the world...? That is the question.

    Hemingway chooses perhaps the latter, elevating the experience of killing, he obviously mythologizes picturing likely himself as the Old Man who tells biologically unreal stories about male marlins wanting to share death with their beloved females (I rely on Yahya synopsis here). A theme which is reconfiguration of the attitude which a Jewish character and the narrator have in "Sun Also Rises" in regard to this novel flamboyant, promiscuous main female character. In that, Hemingway (who is rumoured to have been gay too) reminds me about those upper-class Roman women who allegedly lusted after slave gladiators after their fight (like the female of the novel seducing matador): an expectation than in raw power of killing there is erotism, and something more yet...but definitely something powerful. Well, apparently there isn't - only in Hemingway personal myth it is - so the writer killed himself, destroying his own myth, at least for me.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  636. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    You seem to be the one who sees "hatred for anything Russian" in the text of any comment that highlights the follies of Putler's war in Ukraine. Where did I even hint at any hatred towards Russians within my comment? One of my favorite commenters at this blogsite is a Russian, "Ivashka the Fool", with whom I agree with a lot of his opinions, even about this war.


    but wouldn’t you agree that there would be radioactive bodies everywhere, not just in Russia?
     
    My comment was intended to relate to an A-bomb being detonated in Ukraine, not Russia (I really don't understand how you misunderstood this, you're usually a bit sharper than this?) But in another sense, you're correct, because such a catastrophe in Ukraine would most likely spill over into Russia too. And how many Russian soldiers within Ukraine would perish too? It doesn't appear that Putler would care though, taking into consideration how many Russians and Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine have already perished due to his irresponsible actions there.

    I think that you're the one in need of a good, long walk, tovarisch!

    Replies: @Beckow

    In your short incoherent paragraph there were 5-6 negative to hateful Russian references – that says it all, your defensivness is silly. It is pretty pathological and if it doesn’t reflect your thinking you may want to consider less venom.

    There was no geographic reference to your “radioactive” point and the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington – and Phoenix – would be next. Do you get that?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington – and Phoenix – would be next.
     
    I don’t think it will ever come to nukes: even if current proxy war with the US becomes non-proxy, Russia can destroy US bases and logistics hubs in Europe w/o any nukes. Naturally, Russia won’t nuke anything in the territories it wants to acquire, which includes all of remaining Ukraine.

    But if nukes start flying, we can say goodbye to the US military bases all over the world, including US proper, Russian military installations, plus all major cities in combatants. BTW, Phoenix is a perfect target for nukes: it is located in a bowl, so it can be thoroughly wiped out with one warhead.

    I do hope that globohomo elites are not mad enough to push Russia to that point. But if they are, the US would be in a lot worse shape than Russia: I remember how 9/11 paralyzed the whole country, and how the authorities turned out to be totally incapable of doing anything sensible during New Orleans flood, or during a lesser flood in Nashville a few years ago.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    5-6 negative to hateful Russian references – that says it all,
     
    That doesn't say anything at all, because I never made 5-6 hateful references about Russia at all. Here's what I wrote:

    back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.
     
    Let me try and break it down for you, for your reading comprehension skills today seem to be on mute.

    back to russified TV 24/7
     
    A reference to how the airwaives used to be run. Using Ukrainian, instead of Russian within Ukraine is not negative or hateful to Russia, but only patriotically Ukrainian. Hint: they're not one and the same.

    blockquote>looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west,
     
    This is not a slur against Russia, but against its leadership, for threatening to use nuclear weapons within Ukraine, if necessary. Bashibusuk often rails against the Russian leadership here, but no one in his right mind interprets these feeling as being hateful towards Russia. Why pick on me?

    Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone.
     
    Again, your childish interpretation of my disgust with Putler, his face, or anyhing else related to this man should not be interpreted as my "hate" or "negativity" towards Russia. There are a lot of well meaning people within Russia who don't like the man either, nor his policies towards Ukraine.

    Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path).
     
    This was in reference to you and where you live (in Slovakia) close to the border. Nothing that I can see that is much russophobic with this statement.

    BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putle
     
    This is of course a subjective opinion, you can opt for the politburo bunch if you want. :-)

    https://youtu.be/e8gZUQMqDAI
    Liar, liar pinocchio Putler is the only one bringing up publicly the possibility of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine. He states that this is in response to Western threats to do the same, the only problem is that no Western politician has spewed the possibility of using first strike nuclear weapons within Ukraine.

    Replies: @Beckow

  637. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    One thing I realized from spending time on Unz is that 40+ year olds aren’t all that different mentally from people half their age. People don’t really change with age, they just become a bit more mellow.
     
    I agree. And we get some experience, which sometimes makes a difference and sometimes doesn't.

    Do you like Jules Verne as well
     
    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures. I was seven years old. The same year, I followed with L'île mystérieuse, and Les enfants du Capitaine Grant, completing the trilogy.

    Pynya
     
    VVP's nicknames from the Piter's criminal 90ies were "the dwarf" and "the moth". Pynya is a relatively recent one, originating in the Russian nationalist internet discussions.

    London was more talented than Orwell as a novelist; but the latter was the superior essayist.
     
    I think both were excellent writers, they just had different styles. I don't think we can compare The Iron Heel with 1984. And the times have also changed a lot between London's and Orwell's anti-utopias. Also, I consider The Animal Farm a true masterpiece. I think Orwell should be compared to Zamyatin, who might have inspired him to write 1984 .

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/freedom-and-happiness-review-of-we-by-yevgeny-zamyatin/

    Looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation.

     

    If you watch the movie, tell me what you thought of it.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures.

    Right before he croaked Michael Aquino gave a three hour interview to an obscure podcaster. He said Jules Verne’s book and Disney’s movie were the first big things in his life. Bigger than mom and dad or anything for a very long time. His goal in life was always to be Captain Nemo. Long after chronological adulthood had arrived for him.

    Ghislaine Maxwell is also a huge fan. : )

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I see what you did here! But I have nothing to do with these perverts and stopped reading Jules Verne when I was 12 years old. Although Aquino was an interesting individual, despite him being a pedo and a Satanist.

    Speaking of Jules Verne, in Le Matin des Magiciens, Bergier and Powels have written about him as a member of a secret society. Anything you read about it ?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  638. FBI is now warning about traditional Catholics, in internal memos. They should just be disbanded at this point. All they are is a woke Stazi.

  639. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yes I liked Jules Verne a lot, 20 milles lieues sous la mer was the first novel I ever read, a Russian translation with nice pictures.
     
    Right before he croaked Michael Aquino gave a three hour interview to an obscure podcaster. He said Jules Verne's book and Disney's movie were the first big things in his life. Bigger than mom and dad or anything for a very long time. His goal in life was always to be Captain Nemo. Long after chronological adulthood had arrived for him.

    Ghislaine Maxwell is also a huge fan. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I see what you did here! But I have nothing to do with these perverts and stopped reading Jules Verne when I was 12 years old. Although Aquino was an interesting individual, despite him being a pedo and a Satanist.

    Speaking of Jules Verne, in Le Matin des Magiciens, Bergier and Powels have written about him as a member of a secret society. Anything you read about it ?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Bergier and Powells had extremely active imaginations.

    In Jules Verne's social set the occult was de rigueur. If you want documented gossip there is a really really great book by Tobias Churton which I cannot recommend with the enthusiasm it deserves. Occult Paris.

    When Mathers and Crowley went to Paris they were ignored. Joséphin Péladan's Rosicrucian Salon made the Golden Dawn minor leaguers by comparison. Papus competed for attention with Rasputin in the Romanov court.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  640. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    In your short incoherent paragraph there were 5-6 negative to hateful Russian references - that says it all, your defensivness is silly. It is pretty pathological and if it doesn't reflect your thinking you may want to consider less venom.

    There was no geographic reference to your "radioactive" point and the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington - and Phoenix - would be next. Do you get that?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack

    the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington – and Phoenix – would be next.

    I don’t think it will ever come to nukes: even if current proxy war with the US becomes non-proxy, Russia can destroy US bases and logistics hubs in Europe w/o any nukes. Naturally, Russia won’t nuke anything in the territories it wants to acquire, which includes all of remaining Ukraine.

    But if nukes start flying, we can say goodbye to the US military bases all over the world, including US proper, Russian military installations, plus all major cities in combatants. BTW, Phoenix is a perfect target for nukes: it is located in a bowl, so it can be thoroughly wiped out with one warhead.

    I do hope that globohomo elites are not mad enough to push Russia to that point. But if they are, the US would be in a lot worse shape than Russia: I remember how 9/11 paralyzed the whole country, and how the authorities turned out to be totally incapable of doing anything sensible during New Orleans flood, or during a lesser flood in Nashville a few years ago.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg) whereas USA has many of them: this is Russia basic weakness in nukes exchange, which would be a contingency game based on efficiency of antimissiles. This is also the reason why Russia build a kind of antimissile shield around Moscow whereas USA did not around its cities (AFAIK). However, there is a way to counter even an efficient antimissile shield, and this is SATURATION, much easier to be done when there are fewer targets, as in Russia.

    In some ways, Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

  641. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Self-mythologizing might be the attitude of a man who has lost connection to myth but still has the habit of myth.

    I'll explain what I mean - a man who comes from a culture that has just lost it's myths and principles, but still has the old reflexes and habits formed by those myths and principles (which may last for a generation or two until they disappear entirely) - such a man, may fight for the sake of not giving in without really knowing what he's fighting for. But it's a kind of shadowboxing, a fight against shadows.

    In a sense, this is the attitude of the Existentialists - they tried to base life on absurdity. In other words, one would live as if religion, values, principles, were real and valid, all the while knowing they were not and life was merely absurd. Likewise, Nietzsche - who was an important precursor to Existentialism - said man must invent his own values (rather than discover a reality of values that exists outside of himself, which he no longer believed in).

    It was in a sense the last desperate gambit of Western civilization - a last despairing attempt to stave off nihilism - but of course it had no chance of working.

    But even though Hemingway's macho posturing might seem silly and has an air of desperation about it, it is the overcompensation of a man who has lost his center of gravity (in reality, all machine posturing is like that), and perhaps deserves our pity.

    Let us remember that Hemingway committed suicide, and evidently regarded his own life as a failure. This is not a picture of masculine flourishing. And as much as I love Jack London, he too overcompensated for the loss of the center of value in his culture by developing an overly macho persona (heavily influenced by Nietzsche's will to power) and he too committed suicide - both Hemingway and London danced at the edge of nihilism, both desperately tried to stave it off, and both ultimately succumbed. (And Nietzsche, with his will to power, went mad).

    Men truly grounded in Being don't have to hunt lions or box to prove they "exist" - that is an act of desperation. On the contrary, confident men with a true cultural center of gravity must develop codes that temper their masculinity - medieval knights developed chivalry, a code of gentleness and compassion, and Samurai developed a taste for exquisite poetry and lovely ritual, and 18th century European nobleman out conquering the world cultivated art, literature, and wore wigs and makeup and high heels lol.

    So - these late-decadent gestures may deserve our sympathy as despairing attempts to recover a lost vitality through sheer force of will, yet vitality depends on a genuine, real, connection to the objective realm of values, and cannot be summoned by an act of will.

    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?

    Memory of it hasn’t been lost but the way of life (Lebenswelt) which generated it was lost. On the other hand, maybe memory is not needed – maybe it is all about reflexes of soul, or its virtues. Born into virtues or born into the world…? That is the question.

    Hemingway chooses perhaps the latter, elevating the experience of killing, he obviously mythologizes picturing likely himself as the Old Man who tells biologically unreal stories about male marlins wanting to share death with their beloved females (I rely on Yahya synopsis here). A theme which is reconfiguration of the attitude which a Jewish character and the narrator have in “Sun Also Rises” in regard to this novel flamboyant, promiscuous main female character. In that, Hemingway (who is rumoured to have been gay too) reminds me about those upper-class Roman women who allegedly lusted after slave gladiators after their fight (like the female of the novel seducing matador): an expectation than in raw power of killing there is erotism, and something more yet…but definitely something powerful. Well, apparently there isn’t – only in Hemingway personal myth it is – so the writer killed himself, destroying his own myth, at least for me.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Yep, I do agree that the fascination with violence qua violence is generally a late-decadent symptom - an attempt to recover a lost vitality. It does seem to appear in late stages of cultural decline.

    Ages of genuine vitality are characterized by sheer exuberance, and the task is to channel this excess energy into productive avenues, or to cultivate it's opposite - the so-called "feminine" side of life - to achieve true balance and harmony.

    Hemingway, London, and Nietzsche discovered too late that "power" is a false God - that way lies madness and suicide.

  642. @AP
    @Beckow


    you can’t bring yourself to state that Russia (or commies) won WW2
     
    Commies won World War II. Russians lost millions of people thanks to Commie incompetence, and then had to live under shitty Sovok conditions for generations, while the Germans whom they defeated prospered.

    But the biggest winners of all were the Americans. They will also be the biggest winners of this idiotic adventure by Putin (though the Chinese will be a close second).

    Russia winning in WW2 and saving the cowardly Poles
     
    No, cowardly would be what your people did - refuse to fight the mighty Germans, and serve them as lackeys instead.

    Poles chose to fight which was the opposite of cowardly.

    is only fair that ingratitude that cosmic
     
    The ingratitude is from the Russians. If Poland had chosen to accept the German offers of an alliance and had behaved as Slovakia did - becoming a German ally - then the Soviets would have lost. Instead Poland sacrificed millions of people because it chose to resist the Nazis, and as a result the spectacularly incompetent Soviets managed to eventually win.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …If Poland…

    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934. They even called it a Non-aggression Treaty (just like 5 years later M-R). They got screwed, Germany played them and then proceeded to massacre them.

    But “what-if” history is pointless, an escape for people like you who can’t accept real history. Your If has all the relevance of a melted snowman – what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland – no other country was going to do it. Poles – and you – will never forgive Russia for doing it. But it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945 – there were no Poles living there and it was the Poles who brutally expelled the 5-6 million Germans civilians. How about that, you hate Russia, why are you keeping what they gave you? No honor?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934
     
    You lie as usual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declaration_of_non-aggression

    It was simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other's borders and declared that it wouldn't attack the other.

    It was not a treaty of cooperation, like the Nazis and the Soviets signed.

    The German–Polish declaration of non-aggression (German: Erklärung zwischen Deutschland und Polen über den Verzicht auf Gewaltanwendung, Polish: Deklaracja między Polską a Niemcami o niestosowaniu przemocy),[1] also known as the German–Polish non-aggression pact, was a non-aggression agreement between Nazi Germany and the Second Polish Republic that was signed on 26 January 1934 in Berlin.[2] Both countries pledged to resolve their problems by bilateral negotiations and to forgo armed conflict for a period of 10 years. The agreement effectively normalised relations between Poland and Germany, which had been strained by border disputes arising from the territorial settlement in the Treaty of Versailles. Germany effectively recognised Poland's borders and moved to end an economically-damaging customs war between the two countries that had taken place over the previous decade

    what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland
     
    What happens is what mattered: Poland rather than throw it's 100,000s of troops against the Soviets alongside the Germans and allowed the Germans to start their anti-Soviet war in Volhynia, fought against the Germans.

    Poles – and you – will never forgive Russia for doing it.
     
    You will never forgive Poland, because while you and your people were lackeys, Poland always resists. They resisted the Nazis whom you would have gladly served had you been around then, and resisted the Soviets, whom you served. Now you think that Putin is strong and the West is weak, so you eagerly seek him out to serve his interests. If he falls it will be the Chinese. If AfD ever come to power you will revert to licking the German boot. Orban's Hungary is too small for you, but maybe he will have do? That will be your traditional place. You are always looking for a boot to lick.

    it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945
     
    The USSR (you are historically illiterate and don't know the difference between the USSR and Russia) took territories in the East. The Allies then exchanged territories lost in the East, for ancient Polish territories in the West than had become settled mostly by Germans over the centuries. As a reward for Poland's resistance and compensation for the losses in the East.

    But Stalin insisted that Poland give up Tesin to Czechoslovakia. That was wrong.

    Your residual Nazi collaborationism perhaps inspires you to want the Nazi electoral heartland in East Prussia to be given back.

    there were no Poles living there
     
    You are back to lying as usual. Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.

    Replies: @Beckow

  643. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I see what you did here! But I have nothing to do with these perverts and stopped reading Jules Verne when I was 12 years old. Although Aquino was an interesting individual, despite him being a pedo and a Satanist.

    Speaking of Jules Verne, in Le Matin des Magiciens, Bergier and Powels have written about him as a member of a secret society. Anything you read about it ?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Bergier and Powells had extremely active imaginations.

    In Jules Verne’s social set the occult was de rigueur. If you want documented gossip there is a really really great book by Tobias Churton which I cannot recommend with the enthusiasm it deserves. Occult Paris.

    When Mathers and Crowley went to Paris they were ignored. Joséphin Péladan’s Rosicrucian Salon made the Golden Dawn minor leaguers by comparison. Papus competed for attention with Rasputin in the Romanov court.

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    On further review Churton's book was accurately shelved enough that I could grab it and look at the index. No Verne but he may not have made the cut. Churton could probably give you the info or at the very least tell you the best place to look if you inquired through his publisher.

  644. @AnonfromTN
    @Beckow


    the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington – and Phoenix – would be next.
     
    I don’t think it will ever come to nukes: even if current proxy war with the US becomes non-proxy, Russia can destroy US bases and logistics hubs in Europe w/o any nukes. Naturally, Russia won’t nuke anything in the territories it wants to acquire, which includes all of remaining Ukraine.

    But if nukes start flying, we can say goodbye to the US military bases all over the world, including US proper, Russian military installations, plus all major cities in combatants. BTW, Phoenix is a perfect target for nukes: it is located in a bowl, so it can be thoroughly wiped out with one warhead.

    I do hope that globohomo elites are not mad enough to push Russia to that point. But if they are, the US would be in a lot worse shape than Russia: I remember how 9/11 paralyzed the whole country, and how the authorities turned out to be totally incapable of doing anything sensible during New Orleans flood, or during a lesser flood in Nashville a few years ago.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg) whereas USA has many of them: this is Russia basic weakness in nukes exchange, which would be a contingency game based on efficiency of antimissiles. This is also the reason why Russia build a kind of antimissile shield around Moscow whereas USA did not around its cities (AFAIK). However, there is a way to counter even an efficient antimissile shield, and this is SATURATION, much easier to be done when there are fewer targets, as in Russia.

    In some ways, Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg)
     
    Russia has at least ten cities with the population of more than a million: in addition to Moscow and St Petersburg, these are Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Nizhny Novgorod, Chelyabinsk, Samara, Omsk, and Rostov-on-Don. The US also has ten cities with population over a million.

    Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.
     
    Generally speaking, Russia is more centralized than the US. But the most important thing is how the authorities and the population act in calamities. The US has dismal record in this, Russia’s record is mediocre, but a lot better than the US.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    , @Wokechoke
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Russia would be doing Middle Americans a backhanded favor nuking NYC, Chicago and San Fran. LA ought to be spared though. It's hardly American any more and perhaps never really was.

    Replies: @S

    , @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If it comes to it, military bases would be the first targets. Big cities would probably follow and symbolism matters. Having a larger number of well known symbolic cities - as US does - is not an advantage. In Russia most people only know two Moscow-St.P, nuking Samara would not have the same impact (except in Samara).

    We are also skipping over Europe and if there is a nuke exchange Europe wouldn't be bypassed - up to 2022 there was the possibility that US-Russia would keep it to themselves, but with the Euro-clowns lining up for sacrifice it is no longer possible. Euro countries are extremely centralized: France w Paris, UK w London, etc...

    The other factor that matters is pure size: on that metric both Russia and US do much better, any nukes would possibly dissipate over their large territories. It again comes out that Europe would be much worse. Given that, the unseemly rush by Macron, Sholtz, UK-morons, and Poland to escalate is hard to understand. The Poles like to bleed, but with the others I am starting to suspect that they have been given no choice.

  645. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Bergier and Powells had extremely active imaginations.

    In Jules Verne's social set the occult was de rigueur. If you want documented gossip there is a really really great book by Tobias Churton which I cannot recommend with the enthusiasm it deserves. Occult Paris.

    When Mathers and Crowley went to Paris they were ignored. Joséphin Péladan's Rosicrucian Salon made the Golden Dawn minor leaguers by comparison. Papus competed for attention with Rasputin in the Romanov court.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    On further review Churton’s book was accurately shelved enough that I could grab it and look at the index. No Verne but he may not have made the cut. Churton could probably give you the info or at the very least tell you the best place to look if you inquired through his publisher.

  646. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg) whereas USA has many of them: this is Russia basic weakness in nukes exchange, which would be a contingency game based on efficiency of antimissiles. This is also the reason why Russia build a kind of antimissile shield around Moscow whereas USA did not around its cities (AFAIK). However, there is a way to counter even an efficient antimissile shield, and this is SATURATION, much easier to be done when there are fewer targets, as in Russia.

    In some ways, Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg)

    Russia has at least ten cities with the population of more than a million: in addition to Moscow and St Petersburg, these are Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Nizhny Novgorod, Chelyabinsk, Samara, Omsk, and Rostov-on-Don. The US also has ten cities with population over a million.

    Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    Generally speaking, Russia is more centralized than the US. But the most important thing is how the authorities and the population act in calamities. The US has dismal record in this, Russia’s record is mediocre, but a lot better than the US.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN


    Russia has at least ten cities with the population of more than a million: in addition to Moscow and St Petersburg, these are Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Nizhny Novgorod, Chelyabinsk, Samara, Omsk, and Rostov-on-Don. The US also has ten cities with population over a million.
     
    And Krasnodar. A hypothetically successful nuclear strike on St Petersburg makes Estonia an uninhabitable wasteland, against Kaliningrad does the same to much of Poland and Lithuania. On Sevastopol makes fallout to the Black Sea a disaster for several different NATO countries. On Vladivostok would kill far more people ( in the medium term) from other countries who are friendly/puppet to the Americans than it would Russians.

    Against Pindostan, several cities could be struck that won't affect Mexico. For some Canadian Banderetards the fallout could be quite bad if targets in north of US are taken out, LOL.
  647. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    But today, does anyone even try to recover a connection to the realm of values? Or has the memory of it even been lost?
     
    Memory of it hasn't been lost but the way of life (Lebenswelt) which generated it was lost. On the other hand, maybe memory is not needed - maybe it is all about reflexes of soul, or its virtues. Born into virtues or born into the world...? That is the question.

    Hemingway chooses perhaps the latter, elevating the experience of killing, he obviously mythologizes picturing likely himself as the Old Man who tells biologically unreal stories about male marlins wanting to share death with their beloved females (I rely on Yahya synopsis here). A theme which is reconfiguration of the attitude which a Jewish character and the narrator have in "Sun Also Rises" in regard to this novel flamboyant, promiscuous main female character. In that, Hemingway (who is rumoured to have been gay too) reminds me about those upper-class Roman women who allegedly lusted after slave gladiators after their fight (like the female of the novel seducing matador): an expectation than in raw power of killing there is erotism, and something more yet...but definitely something powerful. Well, apparently there isn't - only in Hemingway personal myth it is - so the writer killed himself, destroying his own myth, at least for me.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yep, I do agree that the fascination with violence qua violence is generally a late-decadent symptom – an attempt to recover a lost vitality. It does seem to appear in late stages of cultural decline.

    Ages of genuine vitality are characterized by sheer exuberance, and the task is to channel this excess energy into productive avenues, or to cultivate it’s opposite – the so-called “feminine” side of life – to achieve true balance and harmony.

    Hemingway, London, and Nietzsche discovered too late that “power” is a false God – that way lies madness and suicide.

  648. @AP
    @Sean


    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option
     
    One of the main reasons given for supporting Ukraine is that otherwise - to let Russia just get away with invading another country and grabbing and annexing territory - is that a country should not be rewarded for invading and redrawing boundaries.

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    If Russia were to use nukes there would be a high chance of Ukrainians getting missiles with which to strike Moscow, and other very destructive weapons.

    Replies: @Sean, @Greasy William

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    it’s not a war against America or any other Nato member, and the reason the US is involved in supplying Ukraine is because the US has chosen that backing of Ukraine, which is as finely balanced as a carnival sideshow game to keep the ‘mark’ playing. Ukraine is doing the heavy lifting, for the US objective of weakening Russia (Lloyd Austin said so), thus Ukraine is being kept in the game and believing they are ever closer to final victory they will continue to knock seven bells out of the Russian army. However, America wants it slow but sure.

    I think it is already quite clear from tardy provision of things such as HIMARS and the forthright denial of ATACMS, Abrams, F16’s ECT that America feels under no obligation of an unqualified commitment to giving Ukraine arms that would make them able to retake Crimea this summer. The danger of a nuke would come if Ukraine does much better that the US expects against Russia in the next few months.

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    I think if the US ignored Russia capabilities and facilitated or did not dissuade Ukraine from retaking Crimea, the Kremlin would see that as a Western boot pressing down on Russia’s neck. It would be the Russian standpoint that was key in their decision on what to do. Not how America viewed it.

  649. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    In your short incoherent paragraph there were 5-6 negative to hateful Russian references - that says it all, your defensivness is silly. It is pretty pathological and if it doesn't reflect your thinking you may want to consider less venom.

    There was no geographic reference to your "radioactive" point and the idea that Russia would nuke eastern Ukraine is bizarre. Why? Maybe Lviv or Warsaw, Nato bases, but what would be the point of nuking Bakhmut or Kherson? Any grown-up understands that the moment that happens, Moscow, London, Washington - and Phoenix - would be next. Do you get that?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Mr. Hack

    5-6 negative to hateful Russian references – that says it all,

    That doesn’t say anything at all, because I never made 5-6 hateful references about Russia at all. Here’s what I wrote:

    back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.

    Let me try and break it down for you, for your reading comprehension skills today seem to be on mute.

    back to russified TV 24/7

    A reference to how the airwaives used to be run. Using Ukrainian, instead of Russian within Ukraine is not negative or hateful to Russia, but only patriotically Ukrainian. Hint: they’re not one and the same.

    blockquote>looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west,

    This is not a slur against Russia, but against its leadership, for threatening to use nuclear weapons within Ukraine, if necessary. Bashibusuk often rails against the Russian leadership here, but no one in his right mind interprets these feeling as being hateful towards Russia. Why pick on me?

    Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone.

    Again, your childish interpretation of my disgust with Putler, his face, or anyhing else related to this man should not be interpreted as my “hate” or “negativity” towards Russia. There are a lot of well meaning people within Russia who don’t like the man either, nor his policies towards Ukraine.

    Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path).

    This was in reference to you and where you live (in Slovakia) close to the border. Nothing that I can see that is much russophobic with this statement.

    BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putle

    This is of course a subjective opinion, you can opt for the politburo bunch if you want. 🙂

    Liar, liar pinocchio Putler is the only one bringing up publicly the possibility of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine. He states that this is in response to Western threats to do the same, the only problem is that no Western politician has spewed the possibility of using first strike nuclear weapons within Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Nonsense. You are too simple-minded: Russia simply says that if the West threatens its existence they will consider using nukes. US has an absolutely identical position. The only difference is geography. You are creating crazy narratives, why?

    Regarding your obvious Russophobia: no person will personalize a nation (for you Russia=Putin), demonize them both, throw in an occasional "Hitler" without being driven by hatred. Thou protest too much, because you know it is true. Try to get over it, it is quite unseemly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  650. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland's kosher cookies. Then the Donbassers were lured into the fight by Girkin - the "Russian Patriot" who has been photographed with Karl Von Habsburg.

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1406661/1406661_600.jpg

    (When we know who founded Billingcat it all becomes even more interesting).

    RusFed and Ukiestan are the pseudo-countries that are instrumental in the Globalist drive towards the "Final Solution of the Slav Problem". The FSSP will open vast territories and provide important natural ressources to the Globalists after the Great Reset.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war. It just confirms that Ibn Khaldun was right when ranking Saqaliba (Slavs) as just a bit higher than the Zunuj (Sub-Saharan Blacks) on the solidarity based social organization ability scale.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya have pitched brothers against each other as someone would pitch against each other two dogs.

    Ah yeah, before I forget: I think that Lyakhs being just as gullible as their Russian and Ukrainian cousins, might also be idiotic enough to proudly join the fray.

    While the Globalist gleefully rub their hands.

    Nothing has changed since the Drang nach Osten and the Mongolian invasion times. Slavs are unable to understand their broad interests.

    Alas...

    🤷‍♂️

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies.

    Do you really believe what you wrote here? Do you really think that tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizenry was lured to protest for months on end on cold Ukrainian streets, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred demonstrators, all for “Viky Nuland’s kosher cookies”? You don’t think that many Ukrainians were really fed up with Yanukovych’s corruption, etc. and had legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Remember the demonstrators in Moscow that you’ve so poignantly written about here, that met similar fates for expressing similar opinions on Moscow’s streets? Did they also need “cookies” or other inducements to make their tragic stand?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    One of the funny things about Strelkov is that he reminds me of a typical Major in the British Army. The Red Face, the 'Tasche. And now the Blazer! The braindead lingerie-model wife too....arrrrgghhhh.


    Gerkin almost sounds British. Ivor MacGerkin

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The Maidan was several months in the making and had several phases. The last part - the one with Vicky Nuland's cookies and the iconic "f☆ck Europe" casually uttered by this ugly sociopathic twat, is the one I was referring to. That was the part where the extremists have completely sidestepped the moderates and taken the leading role.

    They have prevented applying the agreement that has been reached between Yanuk and the opposition and that has been brokered by Pynya and the EU/Germany/France. And to make sure that no deal stands, "mysterious" (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters. I don't believe for a second that Yanuk the coward ordered firing at the crowd when he had a deal signed with the opposition. So yeah, Nuland's cookies were kosher all right.

    And I also believe that all this affair has been planned and executed to throw the Katsap and the Khokhol at each others throats and turn them into the equivalent of the Pakistani and the Hindustani with the Crimea being the equivalent of Kashmir.

    I have the conviction that the war is managed in a manner that allows the Globalist to weaken both Slav people and that it might indeed soon lead to a Polish/Baltic intervention in Belarus and Ukraine.

    And lastly, I believe that feuding is what Slavs have forever been best at if there was no strong authority around to pacify them. The strongest authority was Imperial Russia and the USSR, but they're with us no more. Therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles. Chassez le naturel, il revient au galop as the French saying goes. And no, there is nothing noble in this disgusting conflict.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    NS2 bombing was a Blinken & Nuland production.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

  651. @AP
    @Wokechoke


    The Gunpowder Age! As far as I can tell the Russian Peasantocracy formed into the footslogging Streltsy (riflemen) while the tonsured Ukie Cossacks and Winged Poles stayed on horseback aping the romantic cavalry formations of the Mongols
     
    They were rather aping the heavy cavalry of the ancient Sarmatians from whom they claimed ancestry.

    And Muscovites also heavily used cavalry:

    https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/05/21/lessons_in_warfare_learnt_from_the_golden_horde_35375

    The Russian historian Vernadsky describes the Mongol and Tatar influence upon Russian political culture:

    Under Mongol occupation…Muscovy developed its mestnichestvo hierarchy, postal road network (based on Mongolian ortoo system, known in Russian as "yam", hence the terms yamshchik, Yamskoy Prikaz, etc.), census, fiscal system and military organization.

    The period of Mongol rule over the former Rus' polities included significant cultural and interpersonal contacts between the Slavic and Mongolian ruling classes. By 1450, the Tatar language had become fashionable in the court of the Grand Prince of Moscow, Vasily II, who was accused of excessive love of the Tatars and their speech, and many Russian noblemen adopted Tatar surnames (for example, a member of the Veliamanov family adopted the Turkic name "Aksak" and his descendants were the Aksakovs).[22]

    Many Russian boyar (noble) families traced their descent from the Mongols or Tatars, including Veliaminov-Zernov, Godunov, Arseniev, Bakhmetev, Bulgakov (descendants of Bulgak) and Chaadaev (descendants of Genghis Khan's son Chagatai Khan). In a survey of Russian noble families of the 17th century, over 15% of the Russian noble families had Tatar or Oriental origins.[23]

    The Mongols brought about changes in the economic power of states and overall trade. In the religious sphere, St. Paphnutius of Borovsk was the grandson of a Mongol baskak, or tax collector, while a nephew of Khan Bergai of the Golden Horde converted to Christianity and became known as the monk St. Peter Tsarevich of the Horde.[24]

    In the judicial sphere, under Mongol influence capital punishment, which during the times of Kievan Rus' had only been applied to slaves, became widespread, and the use of torture became a regular part of criminal procedure. Specific punishments introduced in Moscow included beheading for alleged traitors and branding of thieves (with execution for a third arrest

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Mongol law looks mild in comparison to the medieval English.

    Anyway,

    The Muscovites outsourced the cavalry to the Tartars. Russian cavalry tended to mean Ukies or Turkic
    auxiliaries.

    The English could ride horses but mostly fought on foot. Even the Normans couldn’t get them to fight like Normans, nor later on like the French aristocrats and their Gendarmes when typically English knights dismounted.

    Russians have always been plodding footsloggers as far as I can see.

  652. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg) whereas USA has many of them: this is Russia basic weakness in nukes exchange, which would be a contingency game based on efficiency of antimissiles. This is also the reason why Russia build a kind of antimissile shield around Moscow whereas USA did not around its cities (AFAIK). However, there is a way to counter even an efficient antimissile shield, and this is SATURATION, much easier to be done when there are fewer targets, as in Russia.

    In some ways, Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    Russia would be doing Middle Americans a backhanded favor nuking NYC, Chicago and San Fran. LA ought to be spared though. It’s hardly American any more and perhaps never really was.

    • Replies: @S
    @Wokechoke


    Russia would be doing Middle Americans a backhanded favor nuking NYC, Chicago and San Fran.
     
    The part about the nuking of New York City has already been foretold...


    'This used to be my home!'

    https://youtu.be/KKoPAIkiU3o
  653. @songbird
    Interesting to consider how Star Wars has changed over the years.

    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.

    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a "socially conscious film."

    After RotJ, Mark Hamil thought that Lucas would make Star Wars return 20 years later, and that Luke would return, this time, in the role of a father. But when he did return, he was childless and hopeless, and now they are making him a homo or something.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123

    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.

    A New Hope was a Western that happened to be set in space. Vader wore black armor for the same reason that a cowboys wear black hats.

    Lando was a well written character. Billy Dee Williams was well cast for the role. Therefore it worked. Williams pushed hard for a cape on his costume, and that is how they arrived at the pretentious adornment that helped sell the character.

    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a “socially conscious film.”

    Arrested and Interrogated. Anyone might be a bit snippy. Especially when the rescue team includes Han Solo.

    The gold bikini and slave collar was socially concious? Really?

    Yes, she did get to strangle Jabba to death. And, was rescuing Han. However these are the types of things royalty are expected to do noblesse oblige. Also, we find out she is Luke’s sister and therefore a potential Jedi.
    ___

    The Disney trilogy was awful. They really need to purge them from canon like they did the “Legends” books. Then, start over. Rumor has it that the franchise IP might be for sale.

    The animated stuff has been funny as light entertainment. The live action has ranged from neutral to bad. Kenobi was truly abysmal. What is terrifying is that there are worse projects out there. Velma and Rings of Power spring immediately to mind.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    The gold bikini and slave collar was socially concious? Really?
     
    I laughed a bit, when I heard Siskel say it, at first. But then I realized that he was right. It was very progressive for 1983. Though I am not sure I would agree with his implication that Leia wasn't a take charge woman in the first movie. Didn't she grab a blaster and start shooting storm-troopers, or something?

    I've watched a few of these clips with Siskel and Ebert lately, and it is fascinating. In an obvious way, they are both very woke. Ebert married a black woman. (just like Lucas). But in another way, the past is a different country, so, for example, I watched a clip about Showgirls (1995), and one or the other of them basically said that Elizabeth Berkley was too ugly for the role of a stripper (referring to her face.) And in other movies, they talk a lot about whether a scene is titillating or not.

    I think they started their TV careers in the '70s, so some of that carries over.

    Vader wore black armor for the same reason that a cowboys wear black hats.
     
    If anything I think Lucas was signaling against the color white by making the storm troopers have white armor.
    You can see Siskel start talking about it about about 2:26. The term that he uses is "socially responsible."
    https://youtu.be/K8_2rzOvPDs
  654. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies.
     
    Do you really believe what you wrote here? Do you really think that tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizenry was lured to protest for months on end on cold Ukrainian streets, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred demonstrators, all for "Viky Nuland's kosher cookies"? You don't think that many Ukrainians were really fed up with Yanukovych's corruption, etc. and had legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Remember the demonstrators in Moscow that you've so poignantly written about here, that met similar fates for expressing similar opinions on Moscow's streets? Did they also need "cookies" or other inducements to make their tragic stand?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    One of the funny things about Strelkov is that he reminds me of a typical Major in the British Army. The Red Face, the ‘Tasche. And now the Blazer! The braindead lingerie-model wife too….arrrrgghhhh.

    Gerkin almost sounds British. Ivor MacGerkin

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke


    Gerkin almost sounds British
     
    It's Girkind, not Gerkin

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  655. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies.
     
    Do you really believe what you wrote here? Do you really think that tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizenry was lured to protest for months on end on cold Ukrainian streets, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred demonstrators, all for "Viky Nuland's kosher cookies"? You don't think that many Ukrainians were really fed up with Yanukovych's corruption, etc. and had legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Remember the demonstrators in Moscow that you've so poignantly written about here, that met similar fates for expressing similar opinions on Moscow's streets? Did they also need "cookies" or other inducements to make their tragic stand?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    The Maidan was several months in the making and had several phases. The last part – the one with Vicky Nuland’s cookies and the iconic “f☆ck Europe” casually uttered by this ugly sociopathic twat, is the one I was referring to. That was the part where the extremists have completely sidestepped the moderates and taken the leading role.

    They have prevented applying the agreement that has been reached between Yanuk and the opposition and that has been brokered by Pynya and the EU/Germany/France. And to make sure that no deal stands, “mysterious” (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters. I don’t believe for a second that Yanuk the coward ordered firing at the crowd when he had a deal signed with the opposition. So yeah, Nuland’s cookies were kosher all right.

    And I also believe that all this affair has been planned and executed to throw the Katsap and the Khokhol at each others throats and turn them into the equivalent of the Pakistani and the Hindustani with the Crimea being the equivalent of Kashmir.

    I have the conviction that the war is managed in a manner that allows the Globalist to weaken both Slav people and that it might indeed soon lead to a Polish/Baltic intervention in Belarus and Ukraine.

    And lastly, I believe that feuding is what Slavs have forever been best at if there was no strong authority around to pacify them. The strongest authority was Imperial Russia and the USSR, but they’re with us no more. Therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles. Chassez le naturel, il revient au galop as the French saying goes. And no, there is nothing noble in this disgusting conflict.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    “mysterious” (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters.
     
    I don't know of any "mysterious (Georgian) snipers that were brought into Kyiv, but I do know of a plane that included Russian intelligence/siloviki personnel that flew into Kyiv on 10/25/2014 during the height of the Kyivan unrest:

    Same day to Boryspil unofficially arrived a Russian delegation of seven people including Vladislav Surkov, a curator of the "Ukrainian scenario" in Kremlin.[395] The delegation was greeted by the head of SBU department of counterintelligence Volodymyr Bik.[395] According to the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, one of the members FSB Colonel General Sergei Beseda arrived to Kyiv to make sure appropriate level of security of the Russian embassies[395] which was considered unlikely as nobody from the Russian embassy arrived to meet their compatriots.[395] According to Andrei Soldatov, the delegation visited Kyiv to ensure loyalty of Yanukovych.[396]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Euromaidan
    Just a coincidence that this trip was orchestrated during the height of the killings on the streets of Kyiv?

    therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles.
     
    I wouldn't call the intrusion of one country into the internal affairs of another to be "petty squabbles". Trying to ripoff territory too, is not the way that neighboring slavic countries should behave amongst themselves, especially if the one doing the ripping off has more than enough territory to meet the needs of its population. It's not realistic to try and assign equal responsibility for this war. Unless you have some more information about how the Habsburgs or whoever was able to bribe and coerce the elites in both countries to foment this war simultaneously, I remain unmoved with your account here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  656. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    In Russia there is multinational clans, in China mononational clans. But Russian and Chinese elite are behaving like the same people. What’s the cause of this behavior?
     
    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannish. They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.

    But what happens in Estonia, Norway or Finland which creates the democracy, property rights, workers’ rights and anti-corruption.
     
    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

    The historical cause was not related to election of nationalists, as they elect the liberals to rule in those countries.
     
    These were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind, and some of these things, such as anti-Sovietism is something that the Russian national democrats would also like.

    it can be the only solution will be build structures with prevents them stealing your money, with the empirical examples of success.
     
    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannis

    ?
    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.

    They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.

    Murmansk is one of the regions most famous for corruption in Russia especially with the local officials.

    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.

    I assume most everyone in Estonia is a kind of nationalist, as (I assume?) nationalism is the mainstream of the Estonian society. Estonians are people with a strong nationalism. But it is liberal politicians in Estonia which attained this, and Estonia has liberal rulers since independence. So, perhaps you can say it is a kind of Estonian liberal/nationalist viewpoint.

    Remember, it’s not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It’s a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

    Just like Erdogan is happy to promote all this romantic Islamist and Ottoman dreams in populist way for his people, but the successful policy for saving the country from earthquake – so tens of thousands of people are not killed under falling buildings, would be depending from pedantic engineers that re-check their calculations.

    were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind,

    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

    If you look at the corruption ranking by transparency international, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/202

    Russia and Brazil are the multinational countries with the low ranking, but overall, the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.

    There is multinational Singapore or Canada which have some of the most anti-corruption. There is mononational China with high corruption.

    If you think about some of the damaging problems in Russia – autocracy, imperialism, corruption.

    The multinational elite is connected with the topic of imperialism and superpower aims. Although I’m not sure I can say what is cause or effect. Does multinational elite cause imperialism, or is multinational elite one of the results of imperialism? Imperialism is possibly more creating the multinationalism, than result of it.

    Reducing multinationalism, could allow the country to reduce the imperialism, which would allow the country to focus more on the internal development, rights of its people. However, this would also require reducing superpower ambitions of the country, which will be difficult for politicians to follow.

    The disaster of postsoviet imperialism is the war with Ukraine. From the Russian side, it is probably not related to the national composition of the elite. Although the view in Russia since Sobchak, has been to predict that cause of conflict in Ukraine, is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence). So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.
     
    These are individuals acting in a chaotic post-Soviet environment, not Northern Russians in their more organic, natural environment.

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.
     
    The issue of anti-corruption is not really ideological, it's an issue of basic fairness and of basic functionality of the system and of purely technical capability.

    Yes, anti-corruption had been made an ideological issue in the post-Soviet countries for some parties to show they are better than others, Navalny, too, was kind of trying to take that route, regardless of how his people could've achieved this in practice and whether it would be better than someone like the ethno-nationalist Dmitry Demushkin who also put anti-corruption high on his list of priorities for Russia.

    It's not bad, of course, but it's not a sign of a mature democracy. Anti-corruption and transparency should go without saying (ideally, together with a solid local middle class and a local wealthy industrial class, which unfortunately wasn't the case or wasn't the case fully in Estonia in 1991).

    I had something different in mind when I made those comparisons with Norway, etc. We touched upon this in our yesterday's convo about national democrats. Here is an excerpt from an article about them:

    "Тот же Крылов в 2010 году писал, что русский национализм как антиимперское движение появился только сейчас. До этого все рассуждения русских националистов сводились к мечтам, как бы нам обустроить империю сейчас. Национализм же, как совершенно справедливо считает Крылов, имеет иную цель: нация как ценность, государство для нации, а не нация для государства. Это базовая идея цивилизованного национализма — нация как источник власти, не монарх, не вождь."

    https://lenta.ru/articles/2015/07/09/nazdem/

    This is what Estonia has tried to achieve, not always successfully, of course, and not everyone has the same idea of how it is to be achieved. Same can be done in Russia, except that Russia is much larger and has to manage more diversity.

    Remember, it’s not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It’s a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

     

    Again, that's just about basic trust and functionality, not pure ideology. It's not about whether accounting and transparent budgeting is boring or exciting, it's just that it's necessary, so that there is at least some basic trust, the economy can function and also to maintain some kind of equality.

    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less.
     
    They pretend to care or even if they do care for real, they do so in order to be the ones in charge, to be the ones on top, to be the ones to teach others how to live. Because only they know what progress means. If you are not liberal, you are by default dumb and backward, and, of course, worst of all a tribal Nazi who they believe is dumb by definition (as if a high IQ person cannot be a nationalist, or even more commonly a conservative). They are more selfish than you think.

    They also care more about the human than the nation (which ironically can have severe consequences for individual humans in that nation).

    After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world

     

    They didn't start out as liberal. They had eugenics in the 1920s and Sweden had forced sterilization up until the 1970s - this is something that my country has never done! Also, I would characterize a lot of their political culture at least before the 1990s as national socialist and protectionist. Sure, they had social democracy and liberalism, but a lot of that functioned within relatively homogenous nation states (excluding the Sami), of course, until the onset of the more recent multi-cultural madness. Also, they export some of their social problems, in the sense that they go and set up businesses in places where they don't have to observe all the stringent labor laws that are in place in Scandinavia. They take their businesses to more capitalist societies such as the USA. They still have high standards, of course, but they don't have to deal with what they have to deal with at home (unions, etc). Nothing wrong with that, just keep that in mind when you idealise.

    and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.
     
    This might be an issue of perception, in a society that one is invested in, patriotic duty is a benefit to one's own family and to oneself. See the concept of Folk Hemmet. You are caring towards society because that's the society you want to live in, not just because it is the right thing to do. It's just common sense.

    the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.
     
    No, but I would assume, all else being equal, the mono-national could be easier to manage.

    is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence)
     
    It was there, it was just suppressed.

    So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).
     
    These two are irreconcilable. Smaller nations need nationalism to survive.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.
     
    It can be the case that liberals and non-liberals have different definitions of what a nation is:

    Nationalist: '...the nation is not the product of a certain number of individuals living at one given moment and having in common certain ideas, certain passing fancies, but of a certain number of families reaching out from age to age and having in common certain permanent interests; the land to be defended, the continuity of the race to be assured, a fund of moral and economic capital to be developed'.

    Liberal: 'A considerable quantity of people inhabiting a certain area of country defined by its borders and which obeys the same government'. Or a nation is an agregation of free and equal individuals who form a community to maximise their freedom (the nation as instrument of human emancipation idea).

    Perhaps the Scandinavian examples can be described in different ways. Either they represent a human ideal because they have a greater sense of folk community, or they represent a human ideal because they have internalised universal rational values more deeply. It's hard to tell given Germanic Northern European countries have been seen as a model or ideal in terms of patriotic/civic duty for a long time, even back into the 18th and 19th centuries when they were not modern liberal regimes.

    At the moment my impression of the Russian regime is that it is still characterised by a type of statism on autopilot, where as yet there isn't a strong ideal based on something like folk community, nor an animating ideal based on some form of universal belief system. The elites maintain a state and a government for the people but seem somewhat detached from it, with as much interest in their personal concerns as the Res Publica.

    Maybe the war will alter this, in his tweets Karlin seemed to be hoping for it earlier on last year. I think German_Reader used to criticise him about it, arguing that war shouldn't be instrumentalised to try to create a healthy national ideal.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  657. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    One of the funny things about Strelkov is that he reminds me of a typical Major in the British Army. The Red Face, the 'Tasche. And now the Blazer! The braindead lingerie-model wife too....arrrrgghhhh.


    Gerkin almost sounds British. Ivor MacGerkin

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Gerkin almost sounds British

    It’s Girkind, not Gerkin

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Ivashka the fool

    MacGirkind even better!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  658. @AP
    @QCIC


    Do the Ukrainian backers here at Unz believe Russia is fighting the war to the limit of her non-nuclear capabilities?
     
    Of course not, they are not fighting this war under conditions of total war as they did during World War II. Why would they? Ukraine isn’t going to take Moscow and exterminate half the Russians if it wins.

    But Russia is fighting this war no less seriously than, say, the USA fought the Iraq War. Even more seriously, because America never implemented the draft but Russia has had a partial mobilization and both in terms of raw numbers and relative to population Rysdia has committed far more troops. America (population around 280 million in 2000) invaded Iraq with 160,000 troops plus 45,000 British allies. Russia (population 144 million) invaded Ukraine with 180,000 plus 60,000 Donbas militia.

    Russia’s efforts have since increased of course, and it has committed at least around 500,000 troops. Had Russia not done so it would have been driven out of most of the territory it had captured.

    America conquered and occupied all of Iraq including Baghdad in about 5 weeks. After a year, Russia has only managed to take and hold around 15% of Ukraine despite its escalation in forces.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so. After what happened post-1990, I think many believe this is effectively extermination. This fight is not really about Ukraine which would have never been pulled so far away from Russia without being part of a greater Western/Nato plan.

    The USA war on Iraq was the world’s largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine. In retrospect, it is surprising that adventure took such a high percentage of USA military resources. I wonder if the reasons are two fold. First, there were absolutely no threats for the USA to worry about (including Iraq) so any resources could safely be committed to the war. Second, the civilian tolerance for military casualties was extremely low, so applying maximum ‘overmatch’ may have been a good way to meet the publicity requirement.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO. I do not believe this is because of MANPADS or a few remaining serious Ukrainian SAMS.

    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC


    The USA war on Iraq was the world’s largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine
     
    A year ago the Russian fanboys were insisting that Russia would crush Ukraine faster than the USA crushed Iraq. Scott Ritter was one of them. It would take a few days, maybe a couple of weeks, they thought. Russia was stronger than the USA (they thought), and unlike the USA that was an ocean away, Russia was right next door. Russian even had more troops involved. The idiot Beckow claimed 50% of Ukrainian troops would surrender right away, and everyone would flee.

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so.
     
    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?

    By invading another country in Europe, Russia has certainly confirmed that it is a country worthy of dismantling, however.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO
     
    How any planes and helicopters has Russia lost so far? Compared to how many the USA lost over Iraq?

    Here is a list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Aircraft%20losses%20%20%20%20Airframe%20%20,%20%20%20%2067%20more%20rows%20

    It has lost 61 Sukhois and Migs.

    Replies: @QCIC

  659. @A123
    @songbird


    After the first film, the media made a lot out of the fact that there were no major black characters, and hinted that Darth Vader was supposed to represent that blacks were evil. This resulted in the character of Lando Calrissian.
     
    A New Hope was a Western that happened to be set in space. Vader wore black armor for the same reason that a cowboys wear black hats.

    Lando was a well written character. Billy Dee Williams was well cast for the role. Therefore it worked. Williams pushed hard for a cape on his costume, and that is how they arrived at the pretentious adornment that helped sell the character.


    They also said that Princess Leia was neurotic, and so her character was changed to be more competent in the sequels. Siskel called RotJ a “socially conscious film.”
     
    Arrested and Interrogated. Anyone might be a bit snippy. Especially when the rescue team includes Han Solo.

    The gold bikini and slave collar was socially concious? Really?

    Yes, she did get to strangle Jabba to death. And, was rescuing Han. However these are the types of things royalty are expected to do noblesse oblige. Also, we find out she is Luke's sister and therefore a potential Jedi.
    ___

    The Disney trilogy was awful. They really need to purge them from canon like they did the "Legends" books. Then, start over. Rumor has it that the franchise IP might be for sale.

    The animated stuff has been funny as light entertainment. The live action has ranged from neutral to bad. Kenobi was truly abysmal. What is terrifying is that there are worse projects out there. Velma and Rings of Power spring immediately to mind.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IU-TmNHMTh8

    Replies: @songbird

    The gold bikini and slave collar was socially concious? Really?

    I laughed a bit, when I heard Siskel say it, at first. But then I realized that he was right. It was very progressive for 1983. Though I am not sure I would agree with his implication that Leia wasn’t a take charge woman in the first movie. Didn’t she grab a blaster and start shooting storm-troopers, or something?

    I’ve watched a few of these clips with Siskel and Ebert lately, and it is fascinating. In an obvious way, they are both very woke. Ebert married a black woman. (just like Lucas). But in another way, the past is a different country, so, for example, I watched a clip about Showgirls (1995), and one or the other of them basically said that Elizabeth Berkley was too ugly for the role of a stripper (referring to her face.) And in other movies, they talk a lot about whether a scene is titillating or not.

    I think they started their TV careers in the ’70s, so some of that carries over.

    Vader wore black armor for the same reason that a cowboys wear black hats.

    If anything I think Lucas was signaling against the color white by making the storm troopers have white armor.

    [MORE]

    You can see Siskel start talking about it about about 2:26. The term that he uses is “socially responsible.”

    • Agree: A123
  660. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...If Poland...
     
    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934. They even called it a Non-aggression Treaty (just like 5 years later M-R). They got screwed, Germany played them and then proceeded to massacre them.

    But "what-if" history is pointless, an escape for people like you who can't accept real history. Your If has all the relevance of a melted snowman - what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland - no other country was going to do it. Poles - and you - will never forgive Russia for doing it. But it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945 - there were no Poles living there and it was the Poles who brutally expelled the 5-6 million Germans civilians. How about that, you hate Russia, why are you keeping what they gave you? No honor?

    Replies: @AP

    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934

    You lie as usual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declaration_of_non-aggression

    It was simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other’s borders and declared that it wouldn’t attack the other.

    It was not a treaty of cooperation, like the Nazis and the Soviets signed.

    The German–Polish declaration of non-aggression (German: Erklärung zwischen Deutschland und Polen über den Verzicht auf Gewaltanwendung, Polish: Deklaracja między Polską a Niemcami o niestosowaniu przemocy),[1] also known as the German–Polish non-aggression pact, was a non-aggression agreement between Nazi Germany and the Second Polish Republic that was signed on 26 January 1934 in Berlin.[2] Both countries pledged to resolve their problems by bilateral negotiations and to forgo armed conflict for a period of 10 years. The agreement effectively normalised relations between Poland and Germany, which had been strained by border disputes arising from the territorial settlement in the Treaty of Versailles. Germany effectively recognised Poland’s borders and moved to end an economically-damaging customs war between the two countries that had taken place over the previous decade

    what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland

    What happens is what mattered: Poland rather than throw it’s 100,000s of troops against the Soviets alongside the Germans and allowed the Germans to start their anti-Soviet war in Volhynia, fought against the Germans.

    Poles – and you – will never forgive Russia for doing it.

    You will never forgive Poland, because while you and your people were lackeys, Poland always resists. They resisted the Nazis whom you would have gladly served had you been around then, and resisted the Soviets, whom you served. Now you think that Putin is strong and the West is weak, so you eagerly seek him out to serve his interests. If he falls it will be the Chinese. If AfD ever come to power you will revert to licking the German boot. Orban’s Hungary is too small for you, but maybe he will have do? That will be your traditional place. You are always looking for a boot to lick.

    it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945

    The USSR (you are historically illiterate and don’t know the difference between the USSR and Russia) took territories in the East. The Allies then exchanged territories lost in the East, for ancient Polish territories in the West than had become settled mostly by Germans over the centuries. As a reward for Poland’s resistance and compensation for the losses in the East.

    But Stalin insisted that Poland give up Tesin to Czechoslovakia. That was wrong.

    Your residual Nazi collaborationism perhaps inspires you to want the Nazi electoral heartland in East Prussia to be given back.

    there were no Poles living there

    You are back to lying as usual. Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.
     
    There were very few left in 1945. Your current allies, Germans, made sure of that...so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans. Your silly canard of 'historical' lands can be used by anywhere - wasn't "Ukraine" historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar? Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland but due to Polish cosmic, almost absurd, ingratitude they should now do the decent thing and return it. You can't benefit from sacrifices by people you pathologically hate.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR. We understand how weasels like you manipulate language, don't be so obvious. It was Ukies, Belarussians and Lithuanians who took eastern Poland. Discuss it with them - it has nothing to do with Russia.

    Your discourse on 'lackeydom' is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states...acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive. Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal - they either hated Poles too much or needed the land more immediately. In any case, your point is invalid - we are pragmatic people and don't rush machine guns. If you are proud of Poles for eagerly dying, well, it is for you guys to resolve.


    simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other’s borders and declared that it wouldn’t attack the other.
     
    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word - a Non-aggression Treaty. It had a secret addendum that deliminated spheres of interest, that's why Galicia and the Baltics fell under the Soviets. Did the Polish-German Treaty had one? We don't know, knowing the Polish propensity for lying I wouldn't be surprised. But the treaties very very similar.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy. It changed the balance in E Europe - Poles betrayed the rest of us. It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski' funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade, etc...You are again lying to deny the obvious because you want your made-up mythological narrative.

    In this war you will do the same: as Ukies lose you will redraw the "goals" and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin, they didn't achieve their aims. People like you are a historical garbage: you live in a made-world, obsessively cherry-pick one-sided 'facts', and when you lose you lie about it. Good luck with that, reality tends to prevail...if Russia keeps Azov, Donbas, if Ukies are not in Nato - Russia will have won. Deal with it. All else is happy talk by losers.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

  661. @QCIC
    @AP

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so. After what happened post-1990, I think many believe this is effectively extermination. This fight is not really about Ukraine which would have never been pulled so far away from Russia without being part of a greater Western/Nato plan.

    The USA war on Iraq was the world's largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine. In retrospect, it is surprising that adventure took such a high percentage of USA military resources. I wonder if the reasons are two fold. First, there were absolutely no threats for the USA to worry about (including Iraq) so any resources could safely be committed to the war. Second, the civilian tolerance for military casualties was extremely low, so applying maximum 'overmatch' may have been a good way to meet the publicity requirement.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO. I do not believe this is because of MANPADS or a few remaining serious Ukrainian SAMS.

    Replies: @AP

    The USA war on Iraq was the world’s largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine

    A year ago the Russian fanboys were insisting that Russia would crush Ukraine faster than the USA crushed Iraq. Scott Ritter was one of them. It would take a few days, maybe a couple of weeks, they thought. Russia was stronger than the USA (they thought), and unlike the USA that was an ocean away, Russia was right next door. Russian even had more troops involved. The idiot Beckow claimed 50% of Ukrainian troops would surrender right away, and everyone would flee.

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so.

    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?

    By invading another country in Europe, Russia has certainly confirmed that it is a country worthy of dismantling, however.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO

    How any planes and helicopters has Russia lost so far? Compared to how many the USA lost over Iraq?

    Here is a list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Aircraft%20losses%20%20%20%20Airframe%20%20,%20%20%20%2067%20more%20rows%20

    It has lost 61 Sukhois and Migs.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    I am aware of the Russian aircraft losses, propaganda on both sides notwithstanding. The Su-34 losses seem serious. I take those as a sign they are flying risky missions in exchange for reduced collateral damage.

    I'm not a soldier, war historian, gamer(!), etc. I do recognize that Russia has substantial military capability and capacity which in some cases is top in the world.

    Your statements like this are confusing:


    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?
     
    Are you serious? Trolling? What?

    This is a classic domino-effect scenario which even Russia haters can recognize. You pick the order: Ukraine, Kaliningrad, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Eastern Russia, Western Russian, until the full body is carved up.

    Replies: @AP

  662. While Russians and Ukrainians are killing each other around Bakhmut, China and US are looking to compete for the Moon.

    https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/what-do-the-moon-and-south-china-sea-have-in-common/

    With Yuzhmash gone out of business and Russian space program hurt by the sanctions, Slavs will have no partaking in the Final Frontier.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Ivashka the fool

    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground. Don't despair, the Sarmat is probably more advanced than anything that ever came from Dnipropetrovsk, but let's hope we never get to find out. The Zenit was a neat rocket.

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will. Maybe after the SMO, space will be the next big thing for the Kremlins. Don't forget, a handful of internet conmen have revolutionized the US space industry.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    Re: the Gagarin meme (lol). He is probably not the only one who would be surprised. He had such a cute optimistic smile though.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  663. @sudden death
    @QCIC

    With this kind of Z-logic it can be said as well about the course of WWII - Nazi Germany was fighting all the war below the limit of her capabilities, because never used the stocks of chemical shells/bombs at the fronts despite having more than enough at the time;)

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    Comparisons to WW2 Germany are a stretch.

    Russia has massive nuclear and naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine–yet. Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little. Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis. Russia has lots of conventional military resources across the vast country which have not yet been committed to the SMO.

    At this point, I think Russia may be starting to feel trapped, but not in the way the Ukrainian backers think. I see the SMO as a kid gloves reconquista of Ukraine. Use of the kid gloves is a slightly risky move in exchange for a better chance of robust Russophone reunification. The longer it takes, the higher the risk the West will start trouble on some other front. If Russia is really bogged down, that second front has some chance of leading to a nuclear response. Sooner rather than later Russia may decide to use conventional weapons to level Ukraine and get it done. At that point they will be in a nuclear standoff anyway, so why postpone the inevitable?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @QCIC


    Naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine–yet.
     
    Everything they have in Black Sea has been applied and notable amount of it has been damaged and destroyed:

    1 Project 1164 Slava-class guided missile cruiser 'Moskva': (1, sunk)
    5 Project 03160 Raptor-class patrol boat: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged)
    1 Project 02510 BK-16E high-speed assault boat: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 1171 Tapir-class landing ship 'Saratov (BDK-65)': (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 775 Ropucha-class landing ship: (1, damaged)
    1 Project 11770 Serna-class landing craft: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 22870 SB-739 Vasily Bekh rescue tug: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 266M Natya-class minesweeper: (1, damaged)

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html


    Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little.
     
    To apply that air warfare capability achieved air superiority is needed, which they don't have at all, at best it can be called air advantage, which would still result in unrepairable damage to the current RF airfleet and pilot pool in case of more active usage - UA had 137 own various SAMs at the start of Zoperation, now still has 49 of those, plus new Western arrivals and lots and lots of handheld AA guns.

    Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis.
     
    Fan of sakers and martyanovs?

    Replies: @QCIC

  664. @LatW
    @LatW


    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).
     
    And, by the way, Zelensky's visit to London was only the beginning - the foundation has been laid, the next visit for Zelensky is with Scholz and Macron (they will most likely talk about jets), then there is another Ramstein meeting and then the Munich security conference. So eventually, by February 24, the one year anniversary of this horrific war, a final, crucial decision could be made to help Ukraine finish this.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Sean, @LondonBob

    All depends what you mean by Ukraine getting a ‘win’. Halt the Russian advance and attrite the Russians until they realise their effort is futile and ask for an agreement freezing the front lines? Forcibly retake the land in the South and Donbass occupied post Feb 2022? Make remaining in Crimea untenable for Russia? Inflict so many KIA sons on Russian soldiers’ families that Putin gets overthrown by popular unrest and Russia breaks up?

    Ukraine will try to attain the latter outcomes. The West won’t knowingly help them achieve those, but Ukraine might just be able to do it anyway. Big if, but if Ukraine was getting the kind of victory they aspire to then I think Putin would use nukes on the Ukrainian army. Theatre thermonuclear weapons’ as unignorable hybrid warfare; the US led Nato alliance would not have been attacked yet it would still have to do something, but what would they dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?

    There would be uncertainty and fear of overdoing it and panicking the Kremlin, not without good reason! In my opinion the greatest asset of Russia in deterring the West is Russia’s fragility. An endgame without a Russian rout and resort to desperate measures short of an attack on Nato forces but presenting them with a challenge will be very tricky to avoid because things speed up towards the end, in war as so many things. Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger. Is Nato willing to directly enter conventional combat, limited but nevertheless actual, against Russian forces if Russia gets so desperate it nukes the Ukrainian army?

  665. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland's kosher cookies. Then the Donbassers were lured into the fight by Girkin - the "Russian Patriot" who has been photographed with Karl Von Habsburg.

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/unbelievableme/20692558/1406661/1406661_600.jpg

    (When we know who founded Billingcat it all becomes even more interesting).

    RusFed and Ukiestan are the pseudo-countries that are instrumental in the Globalist drive towards the "Final Solution of the Slav Problem". The FSSP will open vast territories and provide important natural ressources to the Globalists after the Great Reset.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war. It just confirms that Ibn Khaldun was right when ranking Saqaliba (Slavs) as just a bit higher than the Zunuj (Sub-Saharan Blacks) on the solidarity based social organization ability scale.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya have pitched brothers against each other as someone would pitch against each other two dogs.

    Ah yeah, before I forget: I think that Lyakhs being just as gullible as their Russian and Ukrainian cousins, might also be idiotic enough to proudly join the fray.

    While the Globalist gleefully rub their hands.

    Nothing has changed since the Drang nach Osten and the Mongolian invasion times. Slavs are unable to understand their broad interests.

    Alas...

    🤷‍♂️

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan

    The first country to place troops in the other country was Russia, which placed troops in Ukraine in 2014. That was when a war started, and Russia initiated it.

    It became a major war in 2022, when Russia invaded. This, too, was Russia’s decision.

    There is no equivalence.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war

    Defending against invaders isn’t a war of choice but it is a noble thing to do. But there is certainly nothing noble or glorious about invading and killing one’s neighboring country.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya

    Muscovites have been slaughtering Slavs for a long, long time. They wiped out the people of Novgorod, now they want to do the same to Ukraine. The West and China benefit, but this Muscovite tradition predates those enemies. Andrei Bogolubsky sacked Kiev in the 1169:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Kiev_(1169)

    After the long siege, the defenders of the city surrendered on 8 March, 1169. According to the ancient tradition and unwritten rules of Rus’, the people of Kyiv believed that the new prince came to rule the capital, so they decided to rely on the mercy of the victors. “Mercy” turned out to be ruthless as Kyiv was subjected to unprecedented devastation for two days, neither women nor children were spared. Properties and residential neighborhoods were looted, a large number of churches and monasteries were burned. Not only private property was taken out of Kyiv, but also icons, chasubles and bells. The Holy Icon of the Mother of God was also stolen – it would later be called the “Vladimir Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary” and become the greatest shrine of the Russian Empire.[4] For the first time in centuries, the “mother of Rus’ cities” was so ruthlessly destroyed. Kyiv has not yet suffered such destruction even from the Polovtsians.

    [MORE]

    According to Lev Gumilev, the Kyiv pogrom testified to the loss of a sense of ethnic and state unity with Rus’ among the population of eastern Rus’.[5] In 1169, after capturing Kyiv, Andrey gave the city for three days of looting and plundering to his soldiers. It was accepted to treat cities this way only when dealing with foreign settlements – until now. Such a practice has never spread to Rus’ cities under any circumstances by that time. Andrey Bogolyubsky’s order shows, from Lev Gumilev’s point of view, that for him and his army (that is, Suzdal, Chernihiv and Smolyan soldiers) Kyiv was as foreign as any German or Polish castle.[5]

    The assumption that Andrey Bogolyubsky was creating a new state in the east and had not claimed the throne of Kyiv is backed up by the fact that he did not remain in power in Kyiv after his conquest. The Russian historian Klyuchevsky called the Suzdal prince Andrei Bogolyubsky the first prince of the future Muscovites: “With Andrey Bogolyubsky, velikoros (the russian) had entered the historical arena.”[6] This is confirmed by the chronicles: they call the Galician-Volyn prince Roman Mstislavych “the autocrat of all Rus’”, while Andrey Bogolyubsky is called “the autocrat of the whole Suzdal land.”

    From Russian wiki:

    The throne of Kiev was transferred to the younger brother of Andrei Bogolyubsky – Gleb Yurievich Pereyaslavsky. In 1170, Bogolyubsky sent troops under the leadership of his son Mstislav with Smolensk, Ryazan and Murom to Novgorod, where the son of the prince expelled from Kiev, Roman Mstislavich, still reigned. The formal reason was the dispute over the “Dvina duty”, which Novgorod received from the Finno-Ugric tribes and which from 1169 the Dvina people began to pay to Suzdal. On February 22, 1170, the Allies surrounded the city, but Novgorod survived. Then Andrei Bogolyubsky applied an economic blockade against Novgorod, and six months later the Novgorodians asked for peace and the prince to the throne.

    Meanwhile, Mstislav, having gathered troops, in early 1170 went to Kiev. Gleb Yurievich, not having the support of the local population and the strength to defend himself, withdrew to Pereyaslavl and sent to the Cumans for help, and his rival entered the city. However, Mstislav’s stay in Kiev was short. Once again leaving the grand ducal table and heading to Volhynia for new troops, Mstislav fell ill and died (1170). Gleb died soon after (1171; presumably poisoned, as was his father Yuri Dolgoruky). By order of Bogolyubsky, Roman Rostislavich occupied the Kiev table, but after refusing to investigate Gleb’s death, he was sent by Andrei back to Smolensk. However, Roman’s younger brothers were not going to obey Andrew’s decrees, telling him: “We still revered you as a father; but if you have sent to us with such speeches, not as a prince, but as a henchman, then do what you have planned, and God will judge us.”

    Trying to subjugate Kiev again, Bogolyubsky sent a huge army there. For 9 weeks it unsuccessfully besieged Vyshgorod, in which Mstislav Rostislavich took refuge, and on the night of December 19, 1173, it was defeated by the army of The Lutsk prince Yaroslav Izyaslavich, recognized as the elder Rostislavich and supported by the Galicians.

    In 1174, Andrew was killed as a result of a boyar conspiracy. On the Vladimir table after the war between Andrei’s relatives rose Vsevolod the Big Nest. By the end of the century, he had achieved the position of informal leader among all Russian princes, but made no attempt to personally sit in Kiev, preferring to be an arbiter in disputes for him between the South Russian princes.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints.

    You're happy now ?

    I leave you with your self-righteous reminiscences of Vladimir-Suzdal' sacking Kiev 900 years ago.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands.

    I'm gone listening to some good Nokhchy music.

    https://youtu.be/E2ner9F9GuY

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  666. @AP
    @QCIC


    The USA war on Iraq was the world’s largest and most powerful empire crushing a bug. It makes for an odd comparison to the SMO in Ukraine
     
    A year ago the Russian fanboys were insisting that Russia would crush Ukraine faster than the USA crushed Iraq. Scott Ritter was one of them. It would take a few days, maybe a couple of weeks, they thought. Russia was stronger than the USA (they thought), and unlike the USA that was an ocean away, Russia was right next door. Russian even had more troops involved. The idiot Beckow claimed 50% of Ukrainian troops would surrender right away, and everyone would flee.

    In my opinion, Russian leaders believe the West is working to dismantle Russia as a country and is willing to use brute force to do so.
     
    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?

    By invading another country in Europe, Russia has certainly confirmed that it is a country worthy of dismantling, however.

    Russia has used limited air power in the SMO
     
    How any planes and helicopters has Russia lost so far? Compared to how many the USA lost over Iraq?

    Here is a list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=Aircraft%20losses%20%20%20%20Airframe%20%20,%20%20%20%2067%20more%20rows%20

    It has lost 61 Sukhois and Migs.

    Replies: @QCIC

    I am aware of the Russian aircraft losses, propaganda on both sides notwithstanding. The Su-34 losses seem serious. I take those as a sign they are flying risky missions in exchange for reduced collateral damage.

    I’m not a soldier, war historian, gamer(!), etc. I do recognize that Russia has substantial military capability and capacity which in some cases is top in the world.

    Your statements like this are confusing:

    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?

    Are you serious? Trolling? What?

    This is a classic domino-effect scenario which even Russia haters can recognize. You pick the order: Ukraine, Kaliningrad, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Eastern Russia, Western Russian, until the full body is carved up.

    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC


    “Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?”

    Are you serious? Trolling? What?
     
    NATO prevents Russia from expanding but does not cause Russian dismemberment. Kaliningrad has been surrounded by NATO for decades but has not had a whiff of separation from Russia. Surely if NATO led to dismemberment Kaliningrad would have been long gone.

    But the Baltics despite being right next to Saint Petersburg and being far more “provocative” than Ukraine in their policies haven’t been touched.

    Replies: @QCIC

  667. @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke


    Gerkin almost sounds British
     
    It's Girkind, not Gerkin

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    MacGirkind even better!

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke


    MacGirkind
     
    Sounds like a brand of some single malt kosher vodka.

    An advertising slogan would be: Good till the last (Slav) drop...
  668. Devastating blow to 2024 DeSantis campaign: (1)

    Hostile Takeover of Project Veritas Seeking to Remove James O’Keefe – DeSantis Aligned Operatives Spearheading Effort for Removal

    Big corporate donors like the Koch Donor Trust are attached to Project Veritas and simultaneously attached to Ron DeSantis. This could be where DeSantis operative Matt Tyrmand connects the issues between Big donors (Koch), Big Pharma (Pfizer) and Big Club (DeSantis) motives.

    There are only two possibilities:

    -1- DeSantis is actually on Pfizer’s payroll. Team DeSantis is punishing O’Keefe in the quest for mammon.

    -2- DeSantis is the single worst person in planetary history at picking staff. Trump has an credible explanation. Bolton was forced on his administration by McConnell. DeSantis has no comparable cover for his unforced choice of Tyrmand.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/09/hostile-takeover-of-project-veritas-seeking-to-remove-james-okeefe-desantis-aligned-operatives-spearheading-effort-for-removal/

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @A123

    It's "1". DeSantis is an establishment Trojan Horse who is being exposed more everyday. I think there is a good chance he ends up not even running at all as Trump will absolutely burry him.

  669. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan
     
    The first country to place troops in the other country was Russia, which placed troops in Ukraine in 2014. That was when a war started, and Russia initiated it.

    It became a major war in 2022, when Russia invaded. This, too, was Russia's decision.

    There is no equivalence.

    Despite whatever the naive Slav think of it on both sides of the frontline, there is nothing noble or glorious about this war
     
    Defending against invaders isn't a war of choice but it is a noble thing to do. But there is certainly nothing noble or glorious about invading and killing one's neighboring country.

    Basically, the Globalist and their minions in Kremlin and on Bankovskaya
     
    Muscovites have been slaughtering Slavs for a long, long time. They wiped out the people of Novgorod, now they want to do the same to Ukraine. The West and China benefit, but this Muscovite tradition predates those enemies. Andrei Bogolubsky sacked Kiev in the 1169:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Kiev_(1169)

    After the long siege, the defenders of the city surrendered on 8 March, 1169. According to the ancient tradition and unwritten rules of Rus', the people of Kyiv believed that the new prince came to rule the capital, so they decided to rely on the mercy of the victors. "Mercy" turned out to be ruthless as Kyiv was subjected to unprecedented devastation for two days, neither women nor children were spared. Properties and residential neighborhoods were looted, a large number of churches and monasteries were burned. Not only private property was taken out of Kyiv, but also icons, chasubles and bells. The Holy Icon of the Mother of God was also stolen – it would later be called the "Vladimir Icon of the Blessed Virgin Mary" and become the greatest shrine of the Russian Empire.[4] For the first time in centuries, the "mother of Rus' cities" was so ruthlessly destroyed. Kyiv has not yet suffered such destruction even from the Polovtsians.



    According to Lev Gumilev, the Kyiv pogrom testified to the loss of a sense of ethnic and state unity with Rus' among the population of eastern Rus'.[5] In 1169, after capturing Kyiv, Andrey gave the city for three days of looting and plundering to his soldiers. It was accepted to treat cities this way only when dealing with foreign settlements – until now. Such a practice has never spread to Rus' cities under any circumstances by that time. Andrey Bogolyubsky's order shows, from Lev Gumilev's point of view, that for him and his army (that is, Suzdal, Chernihiv and Smolyan soldiers) Kyiv was as foreign as any German or Polish castle.[5]

    The assumption that Andrey Bogolyubsky was creating a new state in the east and had not claimed the throne of Kyiv is backed up by the fact that he did not remain in power in Kyiv after his conquest. The Russian historian Klyuchevsky called the Suzdal prince Andrei Bogolyubsky the first prince of the future Muscovites: "With Andrey Bogolyubsky, velikoros (the russian) had entered the historical arena."[6] This is confirmed by the chronicles: they call the Galician-Volyn prince Roman Mstislavych "the autocrat of all Rus'", while Andrey Bogolyubsky is called "the autocrat of the whole Suzdal land."

    From Russian wiki:

    The throne of Kiev was transferred to the younger brother of Andrei Bogolyubsky - Gleb Yurievich Pereyaslavsky. In 1170, Bogolyubsky sent troops under the leadership of his son Mstislav with Smolensk, Ryazan and Murom to Novgorod, where the son of the prince expelled from Kiev, Roman Mstislavich, still reigned. The formal reason was the dispute over the "Dvina duty", which Novgorod received from the Finno-Ugric tribes and which from 1169 the Dvina people began to pay to Suzdal. On February 22, 1170, the Allies surrounded the city, but Novgorod survived. Then Andrei Bogolyubsky applied an economic blockade against Novgorod, and six months later the Novgorodians asked for peace and the prince to the throne.

    Meanwhile, Mstislav, having gathered troops, in early 1170 went to Kiev. Gleb Yurievich, not having the support of the local population and the strength to defend himself, withdrew to Pereyaslavl and sent to the Cumans for help, and his rival entered the city. However, Mstislav's stay in Kiev was short. Once again leaving the grand ducal table and heading to Volhynia for new troops, Mstislav fell ill and died (1170). Gleb died soon after (1171; presumably poisoned, as was his father Yuri Dolgoruky). By order of Bogolyubsky, Roman Rostislavich occupied the Kiev table, but after refusing to investigate Gleb's death, he was sent by Andrei back to Smolensk. However, Roman's younger brothers were not going to obey Andrew's decrees, telling him: "We still revered you as a father; but if you have sent to us with such speeches, not as a prince, but as a henchman, then do what you have planned, and God will judge us."

    Trying to subjugate Kiev again, Bogolyubsky sent a huge army there. For 9 weeks it unsuccessfully besieged Vyshgorod, in which Mstislav Rostislavich took refuge, and on the night of December 19, 1173, it was defeated by the army of The Lutsk prince Yaroslav Izyaslavich, recognized as the elder Rostislavich and supported by the Galicians.

    In 1174, Andrew was killed as a result of a boyar conspiracy. On the Vladimir table after the war between Andrei's relatives rose Vsevolod the Big Nest. By the end of the century, he had achieved the position of informal leader among all Russian princes, but made no attempt to personally sit in Kiev, preferring to be an arbiter in disputes for him between the South Russian princes.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints.

    You’re happy now ?

    I leave you with your self-righteous reminiscences of Vladimir-Suzdal’ sacking Kiev 900 years ago.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands.

    I’m gone listening to some good Nokhchy music.

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    You're degresing to new lows in your debating style. AP came up with some good historical analogies that you don't have the gumption to answer.

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints
     
    In this case, post-2014 and especially 2022, yes.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands
     
    I don’t disagree but the blame here rests squarely with Putin. He was the one who chose invasion and war. It isn’t Americans killing Slavs in any significant numbers, but Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans are doing it. He’s even bringing in Africans to kill Slavs:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/african-fighters-ukraine-allegedly-abandoned-russian-commanders-2022-12

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

  670. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    The war started in 2013 with the Maidan. The Maidan was hijacked by the Ukie ultranationalists who have really started the whole mess after eating too many of Vicky Nuland’s kosher cookies.
     
    Do you really believe what you wrote here? Do you really think that tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizenry was lured to protest for months on end on cold Ukrainian streets, resulting in the deaths of over a hundred demonstrators, all for "Viky Nuland's kosher cookies"? You don't think that many Ukrainians were really fed up with Yanukovych's corruption, etc. and had legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Remember the demonstrators in Moscow that you've so poignantly written about here, that met similar fates for expressing similar opinions on Moscow's streets? Did they also need "cookies" or other inducements to make their tragic stand?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    NS2 bombing was a Blinken & Nuland production.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke

    F☆ck Europe # 2, the sequel.

    Proudly presented by Nuland and the Neocon Cabal, featuring Zelya the clown and Pynya the midget.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Wokechoke

    So what?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.

    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn't know this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

  671. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    NS2 bombing was a Blinken & Nuland production.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    F☆ck Europe # 2, the sequel.

    Proudly presented by Nuland and the Neocon Cabal, featuring Zelya the clown and Pynya the midget.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Ivashka the fool

    Seymour Harsh relying on anonymous sources? Still short on U.S. military vessels in the area (there were none), U.S. explosive residue, U.S. anything.

    There are plenty of reasons and technical skill with European nations. Poland (without U.S. involvement) is still the obvious employer for a contract demolition team. Near zero risk. All outcomes lead to gain.

    Potential for operator error causing the destruction is discussed here:

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

     
    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Vol6_Page_554_Image_0001-300x145.jpg
     

    Note that the damage is at pipe bends. These are the obvious weak points for a mechanical failure.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  672. @Ivashka the fool
    While Russians and Ukrainians are killing each other around Bakhmut, China and US are looking to compete for the Moon.

    https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/what-do-the-moon-and-south-china-sea-have-in-common/

    With Yuzhmash gone out of business and Russian space program hurt by the sanctions, Slavs will have no partaking in the Final Frontier.

    https://cs12.pikabu.ru/post_img/2022/02/25/7/1645789022153633990.jpg

    Replies: @QCIC, @LatW

    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground. Don’t despair, the Sarmat is probably more advanced than anything that ever came from Dnipropetrovsk, but let’s hope we never get to find out. The Zenit was a neat rocket.

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will. Maybe after the SMO, space will be the next big thing for the Kremlins. Don’t forget, a handful of internet conmen have revolutionized the US space industry.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @QCIC


    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground.
     
    Last time I read about them, they were embroiled in a Nork ballistic missile technology transfer scandal.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-ukraine-idUSKCN1AY284

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will.
     
    What about the Van Allen radiation belts ?

    Replies: @QCIC

  673. @Wokechoke
    @Ivashka the fool

    MacGirkind even better!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    MacGirkind

    Sounds like a brand of some single malt kosher vodka.

    An advertising slogan would be: Good till the last (Slav) drop…

  674. @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke

    F☆ck Europe # 2, the sequel.

    Proudly presented by Nuland and the Neocon Cabal, featuring Zelya the clown and Pynya the midget.

    Replies: @A123

    Seymour Harsh relying on anonymous sources? Still short on U.S. military vessels in the area (there were none), U.S. explosive residue, U.S. anything.

    There are plenty of reasons and technical skill with European nations. Poland (without U.S. involvement) is still the obvious employer for a contract demolition team. Near zero risk. All outcomes lead to gain.

    Potential for operator error causing the destruction is discussed here:

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

     

     

    Note that the damage is at pipe bends. These are the obvious weak points for a mechanical failure.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LondonBob, @A123

  675. @QCIC
    @Ivashka the fool

    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground. Don't despair, the Sarmat is probably more advanced than anything that ever came from Dnipropetrovsk, but let's hope we never get to find out. The Zenit was a neat rocket.

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will. Maybe after the SMO, space will be the next big thing for the Kremlins. Don't forget, a handful of internet conmen have revolutionized the US space industry.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground.

    Last time I read about them, they were embroiled in a Nork ballistic missile technology transfer scandal.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-ukraine-idUSKCN1AY284

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will.

    What about the Van Allen radiation belts ?

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Ivashka the fool

    The flux of bright minds from the former Soviet Union led to a step of progress in challenging fields across the world, one of which was rocket technology. I think the US, Israel, Europe, India, China, DPRK, Japan, Brazil and probably others rapidly advanced as ex-Soviet professionals added new pieces to the technological and scientific puzzle. It is part of what I call the "Real Peace Dividend" from the end of the Cold war.

    As far as the Van Allen Belts are concerned...censored!


    QCIC says: I prefer to be considered an "Aficionado of Conspiracy Theories" instead of an outright Conspiracy Theorist.
     
    I have wondered about the radiation question. It seems like the easiest speculative "scientific explanation" for Apollo free thinkers. All the references I have found show reasonable doses. My favorite fictional notion is a cosmonaut would get ~ 100 rem on a round trip, so it is a problem, but something which can be handled with a heavier rocket with more shielding. It is also a dose a motivated explorer would accept, but not a bureaucrat. Yenisei can take care of it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  676. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Let us rewind this a little.

    1991. Operation Gulf Storm. 500,000 American troops eject Iraq from Kuwait.

    for 10 years the US bomb, starve and undermine Iraq with UN complicity.

    2003 The US finally invades a crippled Iraq with 190,000 troops + 45,000 British troops.

    for a decade the US occupy Iraq at a cost of around 40,000 casualties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

    You gotta give the Russians a little time here.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Hypothetically, what if Russia did the shock and awe campaign people seem to dream about? Imagine beyond all reason they captured Kiev with a tiny force, how do you think things would have played out? Assuming they installed an illegitimate government to create a transition, it would have caused massive heavily-armed guerrilla war and fighting and chaos across the country. It is not something I can visualize, it is just too far from reality. This may have been what the leaders in the West expected since they are not tied to the reality-based universe. Piles of bodies on every street corner in the entire country, not just the East.

    What else could they have done? Perhaps they should have implemented a heavy blitzkrieg missile and air campaign on Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa and destroyed 50% of the critical infrastructure of the country immediately? Hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in a week. What would have happened? The West would have become directly involved, creating a major war for sure. Neither side was prepared for it, so a huge bloody quagmire results. 1000x worse than Viet Nam or Iraq. Some chance of a nuclear exchange or worse.

    What is left? They started with a gentle stick and probably carrot approach. Send in a moderate force, put the troops in harm’s way to show they are serious, and try to get some sort of semi-legitimate settlement. We don’t have the details, but it seems like this may have happened at the beginning. They knew it wouldn’t work and I think they did it for posterity. It didn’t work, so what comes next?

    Bleed the resistance dry. NeoNazi’s, nationalists, the military, the oligarchs and Nato. Once the resistance has died down they will force a semi-legitimate settlement which can be grown into something legitimate over time. I think it was their least-bad option. It seems that it took time for the Russian leadership to fully “own” this approach.

    Will it work? Who knows! I think the longer it goes on the more fury builds up in Russia toward the West.

  677. @QCIC
    @sudden death

    Comparisons to WW2 Germany are a stretch.

    Russia has massive nuclear and naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine--yet. Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little. Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis. Russia has lots of conventional military resources across the vast country which have not yet been committed to the SMO.

    At this point, I think Russia may be starting to feel trapped, but not in the way the Ukrainian backers think. I see the SMO as a kid gloves reconquista of Ukraine. Use of the kid gloves is a slightly risky move in exchange for a better chance of robust Russophone reunification. The longer it takes, the higher the risk the West will start trouble on some other front. If Russia is really bogged down, that second front has some chance of leading to a nuclear response. Sooner rather than later Russia may decide to use conventional weapons to level Ukraine and get it done. At that point they will be in a nuclear standoff anyway, so why postpone the inevitable?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine–yet.

    Everything they have in Black Sea has been applied and notable amount of it has been damaged and destroyed:

    1 Project 1164 Slava-class guided missile cruiser ‘Moskva’: (1, sunk)
    5 Project 03160 Raptor-class patrol boat: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged)
    1 Project 02510 BK-16E high-speed assault boat: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 1171 Tapir-class landing ship ‘Saratov (BDK-65)’: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 775 Ropucha-class landing ship: (1, damaged)
    1 Project 11770 Serna-class landing craft: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 22870 SB-739 Vasily Bekh rescue tug: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 266M Natya-class minesweeper: (1, damaged)

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little.

    To apply that air warfare capability achieved air superiority is needed, which they don’t have at all, at best it can be called air advantage, which would still result in unrepairable damage to the current RF airfleet and pilot pool in case of more active usage – UA had 137 own various SAMs at the start of Zoperation, now still has 49 of those, plus new Western arrivals and lots and lots of handheld AA guns.

    Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis.

    Fan of sakers and martyanovs?

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @sudden death

    I hope to eventually hear a plausible story of what happened to the Moskva. I was really referring to the Northern and Pacific Fleets which could play a role if a wider war breaks out.

    I am a big fan of Admiral Marty, but could only handle the Saker in small doses.

    The Soviets were probably ahead in these radiant weapons and I assume the Russians have made some progress.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  678. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The Maidan was several months in the making and had several phases. The last part - the one with Vicky Nuland's cookies and the iconic "f☆ck Europe" casually uttered by this ugly sociopathic twat, is the one I was referring to. That was the part where the extremists have completely sidestepped the moderates and taken the leading role.

    They have prevented applying the agreement that has been reached between Yanuk and the opposition and that has been brokered by Pynya and the EU/Germany/France. And to make sure that no deal stands, "mysterious" (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters. I don't believe for a second that Yanuk the coward ordered firing at the crowd when he had a deal signed with the opposition. So yeah, Nuland's cookies were kosher all right.

    And I also believe that all this affair has been planned and executed to throw the Katsap and the Khokhol at each others throats and turn them into the equivalent of the Pakistani and the Hindustani with the Crimea being the equivalent of Kashmir.

    I have the conviction that the war is managed in a manner that allows the Globalist to weaken both Slav people and that it might indeed soon lead to a Polish/Baltic intervention in Belarus and Ukraine.

    And lastly, I believe that feuding is what Slavs have forever been best at if there was no strong authority around to pacify them. The strongest authority was Imperial Russia and the USSR, but they're with us no more. Therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles. Chassez le naturel, il revient au galop as the French saying goes. And no, there is nothing noble in this disgusting conflict.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    “mysterious” (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters.

    I don’t know of any “mysterious (Georgian) snipers that were brought into Kyiv, but I do know of a plane that included Russian intelligence/siloviki personnel that flew into Kyiv on 10/25/2014 during the height of the Kyivan unrest:

    Same day to Boryspil unofficially arrived a Russian delegation of seven people including Vladislav Surkov, a curator of the “Ukrainian scenario” in Kremlin.[395] The delegation was greeted by the head of SBU department of counterintelligence Volodymyr Bik.[395] According to the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, one of the members FSB Colonel General Sergei Beseda arrived to Kyiv to make sure appropriate level of security of the Russian embassies[395] which was considered unlikely as nobody from the Russian embassy arrived to meet their compatriots.[395] According to Andrei Soldatov, the delegation visited Kyiv to ensure loyalty of Yanukovych.[396]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Euromaidan
    Just a coincidence that this trip was orchestrated during the height of the killings on the streets of Kyiv?

    therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles.

    I wouldn’t call the intrusion of one country into the internal affairs of another to be “petty squabbles”. Trying to ripoff territory too, is not the way that neighboring slavic countries should behave amongst themselves, especially if the one doing the ripping off has more than enough territory to meet the needs of its population. It’s not realistic to try and assign equal responsibility for this war. Unless you have some more information about how the Habsburgs or whoever was able to bribe and coerce the elites in both countries to foment this war simultaneously, I remain unmoved with your account here.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The false flag operation on Maidan has been thoroughly described:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers'_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

    Now, regarding war itself, you read Russian Mr Hack, right ?

    Here's an intelligent Khokhol from Kiev writing for people like you and AP.

    https://kondratio.livejournal.com/1676298.html

    This war is a bloody disgusting and disgraceful farce.

    People die on both sides for the plans of the Globalist and the Oligarch.

    But if you prefer thinking that your folks are on some sort of Holy Jihad, then feel free doing it.

    To each his own.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  679. @QCIC
    @AP

    I am aware of the Russian aircraft losses, propaganda on both sides notwithstanding. The Su-34 losses seem serious. I take those as a sign they are flying risky missions in exchange for reduced collateral damage.

    I'm not a soldier, war historian, gamer(!), etc. I do recognize that Russia has substantial military capability and capacity which in some cases is top in the world.

    Your statements like this are confusing:


    Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?
     
    Are you serious? Trolling? What?

    This is a classic domino-effect scenario which even Russia haters can recognize. You pick the order: Ukraine, Kaliningrad, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Eastern Russia, Western Russian, until the full body is carved up.

    Replies: @AP

    “Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?”

    Are you serious? Trolling? What?

    NATO prevents Russia from expanding but does not cause Russian dismemberment. Kaliningrad has been surrounded by NATO for decades but has not had a whiff of separation from Russia. Surely if NATO led to dismemberment Kaliningrad would have been long gone.

    But the Baltics despite being right next to Saint Petersburg and being far more “provocative” than Ukraine in their policies haven’t been touched.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    It seems to be a delicate balance and I don't claim to understand it. Nonetheless, with Western-sponsored coups or attempted coups in many of these places I believe what I wrote is plausible. More importantly it seems highly likely that many Russian leaders believe it (the West aims to dismember Russia), whether it is plausible or not.

  680. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints.

    You're happy now ?

    I leave you with your self-righteous reminiscences of Vladimir-Suzdal' sacking Kiev 900 years ago.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands.

    I'm gone listening to some good Nokhchy music.

    https://youtu.be/E2ner9F9GuY

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    You’re degresing to new lows in your debating style. AP came up with some good historical analogies that you don’t have the gumption to answer.

  681. @Ivashka the fool
    @QCIC


    I suppose the bright minds of Yuzhmash/Yuzhnoye have moved on to more fertile ground.
     
    Last time I read about them, they were embroiled in a Nork ballistic missile technology transfer scandal.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-ukraine-idUSKCN1AY284

    Near Space is easy (Earth-Moon), at this point it just takes will.
     
    What about the Van Allen radiation belts ?

    Replies: @QCIC

    The flux of bright minds from the former Soviet Union led to a step of progress in challenging fields across the world, one of which was rocket technology. I think the US, Israel, Europe, India, China, DPRK, Japan, Brazil and probably others rapidly advanced as ex-Soviet professionals added new pieces to the technological and scientific puzzle. It is part of what I call the “Real Peace Dividend” from the end of the Cold war.

    As far as the Van Allen Belts are concerned…censored!

    QCIC says: I prefer to be considered an “Aficionado of Conspiracy Theories” instead of an outright Conspiracy Theorist.

    I have wondered about the radiation question. It seems like the easiest speculative “scientific explanation” for Apollo free thinkers. All the references I have found show reasonable doses. My favorite fictional notion is a cosmonaut would get ~ 100 rem on a round trip, so it is a problem, but something which can be handled with a heavier rocket with more shielding. It is also a dose a motivated explorer would accept, but not a bureaucrat. Yenisei can take care of it.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @QCIC


    Yenisei can take care of it.
     
    Given what has recently happened with the evacuation of the team from the ISS, I wouldn't hold my breath for the RusFed to launch an ultraheavy carrier rocket.
  682. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    NS2 bombing was a Blinken & Nuland production.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    So what?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    The bombs on NS2 were planted by US Navy diving teams before the invasion!

    A couple of Jews preplan and detonate bombs destroying European built infrastructure.

    Dumb goys go along with the plan.

  683. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    “mysterious” (Georgian ?) snipers have been brought to Kiev to fire on both the police and the protesters.
     
    I don't know of any "mysterious (Georgian) snipers that were brought into Kyiv, but I do know of a plane that included Russian intelligence/siloviki personnel that flew into Kyiv on 10/25/2014 during the height of the Kyivan unrest:

    Same day to Boryspil unofficially arrived a Russian delegation of seven people including Vladislav Surkov, a curator of the "Ukrainian scenario" in Kremlin.[395] The delegation was greeted by the head of SBU department of counterintelligence Volodymyr Bik.[395] According to the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, one of the members FSB Colonel General Sergei Beseda arrived to Kyiv to make sure appropriate level of security of the Russian embassies[395] which was considered unlikely as nobody from the Russian embassy arrived to meet their compatriots.[395] According to Andrei Soldatov, the delegation visited Kyiv to ensure loyalty of Yanukovych.[396]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Euromaidan
    Just a coincidence that this trip was orchestrated during the height of the killings on the streets of Kyiv?

    therefore it is time to go back to the bloody feuds and petty squabbles.
     
    I wouldn't call the intrusion of one country into the internal affairs of another to be "petty squabbles". Trying to ripoff territory too, is not the way that neighboring slavic countries should behave amongst themselves, especially if the one doing the ripping off has more than enough territory to meet the needs of its population. It's not realistic to try and assign equal responsibility for this war. Unless you have some more information about how the Habsburgs or whoever was able to bribe and coerce the elites in both countries to foment this war simultaneously, I remain unmoved with your account here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The false flag operation on Maidan has been thoroughly described:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers’_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

    Now, regarding war itself, you read Russian Mr Hack, right ?

    Here’s an intelligent Khokhol from Kiev writing for people like you and AP.

    https://kondratio.livejournal.com/1676298.html

    This war is a bloody disgusting and disgraceful farce.

    People die on both sides for the plans of the Globalist and the Oligarch.

    But if you prefer thinking that your folks are on some sort of Holy Jihad, then feel free doing it.

    To each his own.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Sure, Katchakowski's ideas have been discussed, even by myself and indirectly by Ron Unz while discussing Oliver Stone's "full of holess" documentary about Ukraine". I think that you were on one of your long sabbaticals at the time, so I'll do a little recap for you here. It started like this, with my reprinting an e-mail that I had received from Taras Kuzio:


    Claims that the snipers were a false flag operation by “Ukrainian nationalists” and more recently “Georgian snipers” is presented by Russian disinformation. A good source is the European Union’s (free) weekly Disinformation Review. Here on “Georgian snipers” https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=georgian+snipers&disinfo_issue=&date=&orderby=meta_value&meta_key=disinfo_outlets&offset=0&order=DESC
    The Disinformation Review shows Ukraine to be the main target of Russia’s information war. My long article on Ukraine as the main disinformation target is to be published in December by the Journal of Slavic Military Studies.

    In the West, pro-Putin/Russian academics and self-made “scholars” also tout this same false flag line. See my critical reviews attached and review of Sakwa’s first book at http://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/06/21/when-an-academic-ignores-inconvenient-facts/

    The aim in Moscow and with these Westerners is to exaggerate the influence of “Ukrainian nationalism” in Ukraine. This is of course absurd because elections in 2014 and 2019 showed Ukrainian nationalists to be unpopular and even more so because Ukraine elected a Jewish-Ukrainian president. They get around these “nuances” by using the Soviet/Russian definition of “nationalist” as anybody who supports the Euromaidan and Ukraine’s integration into Europe and being outside the Russian World.

    Kachanowski is cited by all of these Western apologists who push the false flag line. He is in fact their guru. Again, see my attached reviews. But Kachanowski has a number of problems:
    1. Other research has destroyed his arguments. See for example this digital mock up of the killings which was summarised by The New York Times Magazine — “Who Killed the Kiev Protesters? A 3-D Model Holds the Clues”: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/magazine/ukraine-protest-video.html
     

    We (Ron and myself) had at least 6 separate corresponding comments regarding the shooting and murders of demonstrators on the streets of Kyiv, where he even admitted that "based on science", the killings were orchestrated by the pro-Russian side, but based on "politics" he couldn't bring himself to accept that conclusion. Are you more of a "scientific" guy,or perhaps more of a "political" guy, Bashi? :-)

    The sort of detailed technical analysis provided [that I directed Ro to read] seems very thorough and is exactly the sort of approach one should take to determine what really happened. If this were a scientific question rather than a political one, I’d probably find it pretty persuasive.
     
    This was a pretty interesting thread, that included a lot more very interesting comments.
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/oliver-stones-2016-ukraine-on-fire/

    Replies: @216

  684. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannis
     
    ?
    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.


    They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.
     
    Murmansk is one of the regions most famous for corruption in Russia especially with the local officials.

    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

     

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.

    I assume most everyone in Estonia is a kind of nationalist, as (I assume?) nationalism is the mainstream of the Estonian society. Estonians are people with a strong nationalism. But it is liberal politicians in Estonia which attained this, and Estonia has liberal rulers since independence. So, perhaps you can say it is a kind of Estonian liberal/nationalist viewpoint.

    Remember, it's not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It's a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

    Just like Erdogan is happy to promote all this romantic Islamist and Ottoman dreams in populist way for his people, but the successful policy for saving the country from earthquake - so tens of thousands of people are not killed under falling buildings, would be depending from pedantic engineers that re-check their calculations.


    were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind,
     
    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

     

    If you look at the corruption ranking by transparency international, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/202

    https://i.imgur.com/XaD7yGK.jpg


    Russia and Brazil are the multinational countries with the low ranking, but overall, the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.

    There is multinational Singapore or Canada which have some of the most anti-corruption. There is mononational China with high corruption.

    -

    If you think about some of the damaging problems in Russia - autocracy, imperialism, corruption.

    The multinational elite is connected with the topic of imperialism and superpower aims. Although I'm not sure I can say what is cause or effect. Does multinational elite cause imperialism, or is multinational elite one of the results of imperialism? Imperialism is possibly more creating the multinationalism, than result of it.

    Reducing multinationalism, could allow the country to reduce the imperialism, which would allow the country to focus more on the internal development, rights of its people. However, this would also require reducing superpower ambitions of the country, which will be difficult for politicians to follow.

    The disaster of postsoviet imperialism is the war with Ukraine. From the Russian side, it is probably not related to the national composition of the elite. Although the view in Russia since Sobchak, has been to predict that cause of conflict in Ukraine, is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence). So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.

    These are individuals acting in a chaotic post-Soviet environment, not Northern Russians in their more organic, natural environment.

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.

    The issue of anti-corruption is not really ideological, it’s an issue of basic fairness and of basic functionality of the system and of purely technical capability.

    Yes, anti-corruption had been made an ideological issue in the post-Soviet countries for some parties to show they are better than others, Navalny, too, was kind of trying to take that route, regardless of how his people could’ve achieved this in practice and whether it would be better than someone like the ethno-nationalist Dmitry Demushkin who also put anti-corruption high on his list of priorities for Russia.

    It’s not bad, of course, but it’s not a sign of a mature democracy. Anti-corruption and transparency should go without saying (ideally, together with a solid local middle class and a local wealthy industrial class, which unfortunately wasn’t the case or wasn’t the case fully in Estonia in 1991).

    I had something different in mind when I made those comparisons with Norway, etc. We touched upon this in our yesterday’s convo about national democrats. Here is an excerpt from an article about them:

    “Тот же Крылов в 2010 году писал, что русский национализм как антиимперское движение появился только сейчас. До этого все рассуждения русских националистов сводились к мечтам, как бы нам обустроить империю сейчас. Национализм же, как совершенно справедливо считает Крылов, имеет иную цель: нация как ценность, государство для нации, а не нация для государства. Это базовая идея цивилизованного национализма — нация как источник власти, не монарх, не вождь.”

    https://lenta.ru/articles/2015/07/09/nazdem/

    This is what Estonia has tried to achieve, not always successfully, of course, and not everyone has the same idea of how it is to be achieved. Same can be done in Russia, except that Russia is much larger and has to manage more diversity.

    Remember, it’s not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It’s a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

    Again, that’s just about basic trust and functionality, not pure ideology. It’s not about whether accounting and transparent budgeting is boring or exciting, it’s just that it’s necessary, so that there is at least some basic trust, the economy can function and also to maintain some kind of equality.

    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less.

    They pretend to care or even if they do care for real, they do so in order to be the ones in charge, to be the ones on top, to be the ones to teach others how to live. Because only they know what progress means. If you are not liberal, you are by default dumb and backward, and, of course, worst of all a tribal Nazi who they believe is dumb by definition (as if a high IQ person cannot be a nationalist, or even more commonly a conservative). They are more selfish than you think.

    They also care more about the human than the nation (which ironically can have severe consequences for individual humans in that nation).

    [MORE]

    After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world

    They didn’t start out as liberal. They had eugenics in the 1920s and Sweden had forced sterilization up until the 1970s – this is something that my country has never done! Also, I would characterize a lot of their political culture at least before the 1990s as national socialist and protectionist. Sure, they had social democracy and liberalism, but a lot of that functioned within relatively homogenous nation states (excluding the Sami), of course, until the onset of the more recent multi-cultural madness. Also, they export some of their social problems, in the sense that they go and set up businesses in places where they don’t have to observe all the stringent labor laws that are in place in Scandinavia. They take their businesses to more capitalist societies such as the USA. They still have high standards, of course, but they don’t have to deal with what they have to deal with at home (unions, etc). Nothing wrong with that, just keep that in mind when you idealise.

    and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    This might be an issue of perception, in a society that one is invested in, patriotic duty is a benefit to one’s own family and to oneself. See the concept of Folk Hemmet. You are caring towards society because that’s the society you want to live in, not just because it is the right thing to do. It’s just common sense.

    the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.

    No, but I would assume, all else being equal, the mono-national could be easier to manage.

    is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence)

    It was there, it was just suppressed.

    So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).

    These two are irreconcilable. Smaller nations need nationalism to survive.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    individuals acting in a chaotic post-Soviet environment, not Northern Russians in their more organic, natural
     
    Sadly, there aren't nowadays humans living in "organic, natural environment" (except maybe North Sentinelese), so we can't test the corruption levels of a country which doesn't exist. We live in our countries which are determined by the history and culture. In this world, Murmansk has a lot of famous corruption stories https://severpost.ru/read/41419/ so living near Norway doesn't seem to give them anti-corruption ability. Norway doesn't cross the border and design the judicial system. Perhaps if Norway will send polite people and annex the region, they would probably clean it in a few years.

    Same can be done in Russia, except that Russia
     
    You can see how effectively the FSB manage the opposition, when they create the zoo of freaks, to represent political ideas which are normal in the neighbor countries and would be probably mainstream for the Latvian airline pilots, engineers and doctors. The policy is to prevent it being a mainstream option that attracts the more adequate or socially accepted people. You know Navalny is a threat because he looks like a normal person.

    But interests of power in Russia are different in the geopolitical things like distribution of the resources and the political zoo is an entertainment industry (with the behavior of circus performer), which is downstream of the real power in the society.

    For example, consistent nationalism in Russia should result with Yakuts, which are currently asset-stripped, partly to pay for Moscow, having one of the most wealthy states in per capita terms, with the world's largest diamond resources and the main gas source that moves in the pipe to China. Yakutia would not just become wealthy, but it would have important geopolitical power as a land gas source for the pipe to China.

    I know a person who works for the companies that use resources of Yakutia, another who has parents which benefit. The republic creates a lot of money in Russia.

    However, independent Yakutia would probably a government which introduces nationalist policies (as many new independent postsoviet countries like Ukraine, it would be immediately create for Moscow similar problems Sobchak was describing when Ukraine becomes independent), would give the jobs to their people. If they can follow anti-corruption, the resources would pay more for Yakuts, the wealth could pay for the local schools and hospitals, instead of going to Moscow or Monaco.

    The 19th century nationalists like Garibaldi could go to fight for the self-determination of Yakutia. But this would be the noninterest of some of the most powerful people of the Russian Federation, so it's unlikely it can be allowed (powerful people would not allow it).

    For contrast, nationalism doesn't have those implications in Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia. Nationalism is not conflicting with the interest of the some of the main power in the Baltic society and therefore the government doesn't need a strategy to move it from the mainstream of society.


    had social democracy and liberalism
     
    Well, Scandinavians have their own view, but it is a type of the Western liberalism. But if you don't think Scandinavia is a good example?

    What about in Israel, where the liberal politicians like Yitzhak Rabin are often war heroes, while right-wing conservative politicians are often religious people that do not go to the army (one of the most famous anti-liberal in Israel politicians is Deri, who was not in the army, but only in prison for fraud).

    Or about Poles? Polish people often have socially liberal and nationalist views at the same time.

  685. @QCIC
    @Ivashka the fool

    The flux of bright minds from the former Soviet Union led to a step of progress in challenging fields across the world, one of which was rocket technology. I think the US, Israel, Europe, India, China, DPRK, Japan, Brazil and probably others rapidly advanced as ex-Soviet professionals added new pieces to the technological and scientific puzzle. It is part of what I call the "Real Peace Dividend" from the end of the Cold war.

    As far as the Van Allen Belts are concerned...censored!


    QCIC says: I prefer to be considered an "Aficionado of Conspiracy Theories" instead of an outright Conspiracy Theorist.
     
    I have wondered about the radiation question. It seems like the easiest speculative "scientific explanation" for Apollo free thinkers. All the references I have found show reasonable doses. My favorite fictional notion is a cosmonaut would get ~ 100 rem on a round trip, so it is a problem, but something which can be handled with a heavier rocket with more shielding. It is also a dose a motivated explorer would accept, but not a bureaucrat. Yenisei can take care of it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yenisei can take care of it.

    Given what has recently happened with the evacuation of the team from the ISS, I wouldn’t hold my breath for the RusFed to launch an ultraheavy carrier rocket.

  686. @sudden death
    @QCIC


    Naval forces which do not apply to the SMO in Ukraine–yet.
     
    Everything they have in Black Sea has been applied and notable amount of it has been damaged and destroyed:

    1 Project 1164 Slava-class guided missile cruiser 'Moskva': (1, sunk)
    5 Project 03160 Raptor-class patrol boat: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged)
    1 Project 02510 BK-16E high-speed assault boat: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 1171 Tapir-class landing ship 'Saratov (BDK-65)': (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 775 Ropucha-class landing ship: (1, damaged)
    1 Project 11770 Serna-class landing craft: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 22870 SB-739 Vasily Bekh rescue tug: (1, destroyed)
    1 Project 266M Natya-class minesweeper: (1, damaged)

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html


    Russia also has major air warfare capability which has only been applied a little.
     
    To apply that air warfare capability achieved air superiority is needed, which they don't have at all, at best it can be called air advantage, which would still result in unrepairable damage to the current RF airfleet and pilot pool in case of more active usage - UA had 137 own various SAMs at the start of Zoperation, now still has 49 of those, plus new Western arrivals and lots and lots of handheld AA guns.

    Russia has potent electromagnetic and possibly laser weapons which have apparently been employed only on a limited basis.
     
    Fan of sakers and martyanovs?

    Replies: @QCIC

    I hope to eventually hear a plausible story of what happened to the Moskva. I was really referring to the Northern and Pacific Fleets which could play a role if a wider war breaks out.

    I am a big fan of Admiral Marty, but could only handle the Saker in small doses.

    The Soviets were probably ahead in these radiant weapons and I assume the Russians have made some progress.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @QCIC

    You need to see the newest Wakanda movie, the movie which introduces the concept of "Third Power". It is obviously not Wakanda, though (for some reason advanced Blacks - yes, but Blacks wanting to to take the world over - no, Blacks are gooood). Nevertheless, nowadays movies are here to prime you for this or that: I watch them to see what "this or that" could be.

    Moskva sinking, all these explosions deep in Russia, ha...?
    Ukie teams, yes?
    I bet on a power which attacked CIA with Havana Syndrome.
    Also, do you remember when Abramovich suddenly got completely white hair and was hospitalized in Istanbul..?

    Note that everyone (also Ukies with their outlandish claims) covers this. In this sense, they are on one board (also in space USA and Russia are still on one board), since ultimately they are directed by one power.

    Wait and see.

    Replies: @A123

  687. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints.

    You're happy now ?

    I leave you with your self-righteous reminiscences of Vladimir-Suzdal' sacking Kiev 900 years ago.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands.

    I'm gone listening to some good Nokhchy music.

    https://youtu.be/E2ner9F9GuY

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints

    In this case, post-2014 and especially 2022, yes.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands

    I don’t disagree but the blame here rests squarely with Putin. He was the one who chose invasion and war. It isn’t Americans killing Slavs in any significant numbers, but Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans are doing it. He’s even bringing in Africans to kill Slavs:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/african-fighters-ukraine-allegedly-abandoned-russian-commanders-2022-12

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    When someone starts unironically calling a very close ethnic group "orcs", then debating such a person is a waste of my neurons. All I can say is that you should perhaps (re)read Pelevin's SNUFF, it has been written a couple of years prior to Maidan, but it is the best allegory of what is happening ever imagined. And I repeat again: this war has nothing noble about it. It is a disgrace. I don't take sides because both are guilty of utter stupidity. The pox on both their houses.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans
     
    Maybe this would be attractive commenting for Fox News people in America, but you are writing in the forum of anti-war Russians?

    It's like if I was saying to anti-war Americans during the Vietnam war, that the Vietnam War is a problem because America was using native Americans in the American military.

    The reason they are in the professional army, is because they need to feed their families and there is relative lack of jobs and investment in their area. It's nothing very special (underinvested and asset-stripped people need to go to the army for the salaries).


    Chechens

     

    If you don't hate the sound of Chechen jihadis imitating American rock music, and chords from Nirvana, they could write the music for the last year in 1996
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhurN9tm4Jk.

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

     

    You have access for much more diverse views and information than most Buryats or Tuvans and you were promoting the satire article about Putin like the text was not a joke. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn/#comment-4928594

    Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature

     

    You are not a 10 year old school boy.

    twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod,

     

    It's a typical dictator system, that has a "tradition" in Russia, but is usually in relatively less developed countries. But Germany, Spain, Portugal and Italy even had this until recently, although not with a life expectancy continuing beyond around Abba's second album. A lot of South America, most of Africa today, most Europe until the end of the 18th century or middle of 19th century, was mostly dictators.

    Remember you were promoting this government in Russia until a bit more than a year ago.


    Poles are our brothers.

     

    Generally Poles especially from the conservative side of their political spectrum, have significantly more of the anti-Ukraine views than most of the European nations, where there are the opposite views (most of Western Europe has an idolization of Ukraine nowadays). Obviously the special situation now for Poland where Ukraine is killing Poland's most important enemy, which is the Russian military.
  688. @Ivashka the fool
    While Russians and Ukrainians are killing each other around Bakhmut, China and US are looking to compete for the Moon.

    https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/what-do-the-moon-and-south-china-sea-have-in-common/

    With Yuzhmash gone out of business and Russian space program hurt by the sanctions, Slavs will have no partaking in the Final Frontier.

    https://cs12.pikabu.ru/post_img/2022/02/25/7/1645789022153633990.jpg

    Replies: @QCIC, @LatW

    Re: the Gagarin meme (lol). He is probably not the only one who would be surprised. He had such a cute optimistic smile though.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Frankly, every morning I wake up, I find myself surprised about the current state of affairs. How did I get into such a warped time-line ? I would prefer being in some other parallel world without the sh☆t I read as news on teh internets. This planet starts looking like the galactic asylum for mentally retarded. And when a fool like me says that people look retarded, this is even more bad news.

    It is actually sad.

    And yes Gagarin had a beautiful smile. I have the impression people smiled more openly and genuinely back then.

    Which makes me think of:

    https://youtu.be/P47V4SASwGc

    Lately I found myself thinking of re-reading Yefremov's Andromeda. Perhaps I will do it on the weekend.

    (Where did it all go wrong ?)

    🙄

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  689. @A123
    @Ivashka the fool

    Seymour Harsh relying on anonymous sources? Still short on U.S. military vessels in the area (there were none), U.S. explosive residue, U.S. anything.

    There are plenty of reasons and technical skill with European nations. Poland (without U.S. involvement) is still the obvious employer for a contract demolition team. Near zero risk. All outcomes lead to gain.

    Potential for operator error causing the destruction is discussed here:

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

     
    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Vol6_Page_554_Image_0001-300x145.jpg
     

    Note that the damage is at pipe bends. These are the obvious weak points for a mechanical failure.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Wokechoke

    It's leaked anonymous whistle blower secrets.

    All we need to know is all hard evidence is classified and will continue to be classified as useless eaters (you, me, the guy you addressed this @) have no need to know any of this stuff. Their contempt for us is beyond probabilities. It's a mathematical certainty.

    , @LondonBob
    @Wokechoke

    Hersh has great sources, especially in the DoD, obviously the source(s) will want to retain some degree of anonymity, so there will be ambiguity. Larry Johnson has highlighted the P8 Poseidon that dropped the buoy was tracked.

    https://sonar21.com/independent-evidence-confirms-key-part-of-sy-hershs-report-on-the-attack-on-nord-stream-2/

    The Rand report, Milley's comments, Naftali Bennett's revelations, Musk's rebelling and even some GOP like Senator Mike Roger's calling for an end. Looks like pressure is beginning to be brought on the Judeo-Hibernian cabal. Everyone else knows this war of choice has been a disaster, pressure needs to be applied to stop it now.



    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1619812606700654592?s=20&t=i3UMf3LRu1tDDpiRyZvp9Q

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @A123
    @Wokechoke


    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.
     

    The LawDog articles are very plausible and have all of the details that ring true.

    So, the counter scenario, an industrial accident, has been written. (1) (2)


    In my experience when anything involving energy-industry hydrocarbons explodes … well, sabotage isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. And honestly, when it comes to a pipeline running natural gas under Russian (non)maintenance, an explosion means that it’s Tuesday. Or Friday. Or another day of the week ending in “y”.

    “But, LawDog,” I hear you say, “It was multiple explosions!”

    Yes, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. Not without some Spec Ops guy having a fit of apoplexy. One pipe goes up in a busy shipping lane, in a busy sea, and everyone takes notice. Then you wait 17 hours to do the second — with 17 hours for people to show up and catch you running dirty? Nah, not buying it.

    The Nord pipelines weren’t in use. To me, that means it’s time for maintenance! Hard to maintain pipes when product is flowing.

    Pipelines running methane, under saltwater, require PMCS* quicker than you’d think, and more often than you’d believe.
     

    This is vastly more plausible than sabotage as it gives a credible explanation for the timing. Huge industrial equipment keeps going for hours and hours even after valves are closed. There is no off switch, it is a shutdown process.

    That everyone immediately jumps to sabotage is a problem. If you must go down that road -- consider the amount of greed and self interest in Europe is strangling the world. How about this scenario? "Some Poles did it to simultaneously shaft Germany & Russia". It might not even be the Polish government.

    The Hersh story is intriguing. However, with much more plausible scenarios in play, it is going to take hard evidence, not "anonymous sources".

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

  690. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints
     
    In this case, post-2014 and especially 2022, yes.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands
     
    I don’t disagree but the blame here rests squarely with Putin. He was the one who chose invasion and war. It isn’t Americans killing Slavs in any significant numbers, but Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans are doing it. He’s even bringing in Africans to kill Slavs:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/african-fighters-ukraine-allegedly-abandoned-russian-commanders-2022-12

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    When someone starts unironically calling a very close ethnic group “orcs”, then debating such a person is a waste of my neurons. All I can say is that you should perhaps (re)read Pelevin’s SNUFF, it has been written a couple of years prior to Maidan, but it is the best allegory of what is happening ever imagined. And I repeat again: this war has nothing noble about it. It is a disgrace. I don’t take sides because both are guilty of utter stupidity. The pox on both their houses.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I agree that the war is a disgrace and a tragedy, but vehemently disagree with the idea that both sides are even remotely equally to blame. The Ukrainian state never sent its soldiers into Russia, it didn’t invade Russia.

    I agree that there the war itself is ignoble, but there is much heroism by the defenders (I would not describe as heroic those who have invaded).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  691. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    people in the Vologda area had quite a pure, almost naive lifestyle.
     
    They are the closest one can get to the Old Novgorod the Great. The Novgorodian folks resettled there after the destruction of their republic by Tsar' Ivan. They were not enserfed. And they were often Old Believer. Pyzhikov also wrote that people like these kept a great deal of pagan traditions (perhaps that's why they embroidered kolovrats ?). And they used to have their own distinct dialect very different from central and south Russia:

    https://youtu.be/IHJpdQl-v-U

    (Sounds funny 🙂)

    Replies: @AP

    This made my wife laugh.

  692. @AP
    @Sean


    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrinian army is an attractive option
     
    One of the main reasons given for supporting Ukraine is that otherwise - to let Russia just get away with invading another country and grabbing and annexing territory - is that a country should not be rewarded for invading and redrawing boundaries.

    So would the USA let Russia get rewarded for using nukes in an offensive war?

    If Russia were to use nukes there would be a high chance of Ukrainians getting missiles with which to strike Moscow, and other very destructive weapons.

    Replies: @Sean, @Greasy William

    I just can’t see Russia using nukes unless pre war Russia is threatened. Even then I would see it as a super long shot unless the current regime was seriously threatened.

    I think the US is stalling on supplying Ukraine with all it needs out of a mixture of caution, incompetence and budgetary/supply issues.

    If Putin is willing to carry out a nuclear holocaust if he doesn’t get it’s way, then that’s on him. The West is not going to submit to nuclear extortion on this issue, however.

    Having said that, the most prudent thing to do remains to give Putin a face saving way out, and that means at minimum Russia needs to keep all the parts of Ukraine it currently occupies and lifting the sanctions.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    When NS2 was blown up Russia might have justifiably sunk American flagged merchant ships. They ain’t going to drop nukes.

  693. @Mr. Hack
    @Wokechoke

    So what?

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The bombs on NS2 were planted by US Navy diving teams before the invasion!

    A couple of Jews preplan and detonate bombs destroying European built infrastructure.

    Dumb goys go along with the plan.

  694. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    When someone starts unironically calling a very close ethnic group "orcs", then debating such a person is a waste of my neurons. All I can say is that you should perhaps (re)read Pelevin's SNUFF, it has been written a couple of years prior to Maidan, but it is the best allegory of what is happening ever imagined. And I repeat again: this war has nothing noble about it. It is a disgrace. I don't take sides because both are guilty of utter stupidity. The pox on both their houses.

    Replies: @AP

    I agree that the war is a disgrace and a tragedy, but vehemently disagree with the idea that both sides are even remotely equally to blame. The Ukrainian state never sent its soldiers into Russia, it didn’t invade Russia.

    I agree that there the war itself is ignoble, but there is much heroism by the defenders (I would not describe as heroic those who have invaded).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins. And then we'll take time to discuss the war if you still want to. And believe me, I understand and do not belittle your anger and grief. This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people. That is why I believe we must make our best to stay human.

    Replies: @AP

  695. @A123
    Devastating blow to 2024 DeSantis campaign: (1)

    Hostile Takeover of Project Veritas Seeking to Remove James O’Keefe – DeSantis Aligned Operatives Spearheading Effort for Removal

    Big corporate donors like the Koch Donor Trust are attached to Project Veritas and simultaneously attached to Ron DeSantis. This could be where DeSantis operative Matt Tyrmand connects the issues between Big donors (Koch), Big Pharma (Pfizer) and Big Club (DeSantis) motives.
     
    There are only two possibilities:

    -1- DeSantis is actually on Pfizer's payroll. Team DeSantis is punishing O'Keefe in the quest for mammon.

    -2- DeSantis is the single worst person in planetary history at picking staff. Trump has an credible explanation. Bolton was forced on his administration by McConnell. DeSantis has no comparable cover for his unforced choice of Tyrmand.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/09/hostile-takeover-of-project-veritas-seeking-to-remove-james-okeefe-desantis-aligned-operatives-spearheading-effort-for-removal/

    Replies: @Greasy William

    It’s “1”. DeSantis is an establishment Trojan Horse who is being exposed more everyday. I think there is a good chance he ends up not even running at all as Trump will absolutely burry him.

  696. @Greasy William
    @AP

    I just can't see Russia using nukes unless pre war Russia is threatened. Even then I would see it as a super long shot unless the current regime was seriously threatened.

    I think the US is stalling on supplying Ukraine with all it needs out of a mixture of caution, incompetence and budgetary/supply issues.


    If Putin is willing to carry out a nuclear holocaust if he doesn't get it's way, then that's on him. The West is not going to submit to nuclear extortion on this issue, however.

    Having said that, the most prudent thing to do remains to give Putin a face saving way out, and that means at minimum Russia needs to keep all the parts of Ukraine it currently occupies and lifting the sanctions.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    When NS2 was blown up Russia might have justifiably sunk American flagged merchant ships. They ain’t going to drop nukes.

  697. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LondonBob, @A123

    It’s leaked anonymous whistle blower secrets.

    All we need to know is all hard evidence is classified and will continue to be classified as useless eaters (you, me, the guy you addressed this @) have no need to know any of this stuff. Their contempt for us is beyond probabilities. It’s a mathematical certainty.

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  698. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    Re: the Gagarin meme (lol). He is probably not the only one who would be surprised. He had such a cute optimistic smile though.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Frankly, every morning I wake up, I find myself surprised about the current state of affairs. How did I get into such a warped time-line ? I would prefer being in some other parallel world without the sh☆t I read as news on teh internets. This planet starts looking like the galactic asylum for mentally retarded. And when a fool like me says that people look retarded, this is even more bad news.

    It is actually sad.

    And yes Gagarin had a beautiful smile. I have the impression people smiled more openly and genuinely back then.

    Which makes me think of:

    Lately I found myself thinking of re-reading Yefremov’s Andromeda. Perhaps I will do it on the weekend.

    (Where did it all go wrong ?)

    🙄

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    People doom as a way of coping for not being able to understand. You know this! It'll all be fine.

  699. @AP
    @QCIC


    “Dismantling Russia by bringing Ukraine into NATO?”

    Are you serious? Trolling? What?
     
    NATO prevents Russia from expanding but does not cause Russian dismemberment. Kaliningrad has been surrounded by NATO for decades but has not had a whiff of separation from Russia. Surely if NATO led to dismemberment Kaliningrad would have been long gone.

    But the Baltics despite being right next to Saint Petersburg and being far more “provocative” than Ukraine in their policies haven’t been touched.

    Replies: @QCIC

    It seems to be a delicate balance and I don’t claim to understand it. Nonetheless, with Western-sponsored coups or attempted coups in many of these places I believe what I wrote is plausible. More importantly it seems highly likely that many Russian leaders believe it (the West aims to dismember Russia), whether it is plausible or not.

  700. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I agree that the war is a disgrace and a tragedy, but vehemently disagree with the idea that both sides are even remotely equally to blame. The Ukrainian state never sent its soldiers into Russia, it didn’t invade Russia.

    I agree that there the war itself is ignoble, but there is much heroism by the defenders (I would not describe as heroic those who have invaded).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins. And then we’ll take time to discuss the war if you still want to. And believe me, I understand and do not belittle your anger and grief. This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people. That is why I believe we must make our best to stay human.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins
     
    I haven’t read those, unfortunately. Here is Pelevin in 2017, about a Russian writer (Prilepin) who joined the Donbas rebels:

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/188861-Russian-writer-sparks-war-of-words-by-joining-Ukraine-rebels

    “When your books are shit, you have to earn money from terrorism."

    Have you read Bykov’s book Ж/Д? What did you think? It had Khazars and Varangians fighting over Russia.

    This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people
     
    When I compared Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature this can be expressed physically, for humans in the real world it is more internal. In daily life, interpersonally, Russians are typically kind, decent, nice. They are the same Slavs as Poles or Ukrainians, they are not aliens as Germans can be. The twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod, who for the most part obeyed the German interloper Catherine as she enserfsd them more and more, who cherish and worship Stalin, who support this destructive invasion of Ukraine. They need their Khan. Politically and collectively they are the renegades of the Slavs, the Slav-killers.

    One of the greatest historical tragedies, comparable to the destruction of Byzantium, the Arab conquest of Persia, the Reformation, the Revolution, the world wars, was the failed Union of Rzeczpospolita and Muscovy that would have saved Russia from Eurasia.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Philip Owen

  701. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.
     
    These are individuals acting in a chaotic post-Soviet environment, not Northern Russians in their more organic, natural environment.

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.
     
    The issue of anti-corruption is not really ideological, it's an issue of basic fairness and of basic functionality of the system and of purely technical capability.

    Yes, anti-corruption had been made an ideological issue in the post-Soviet countries for some parties to show they are better than others, Navalny, too, was kind of trying to take that route, regardless of how his people could've achieved this in practice and whether it would be better than someone like the ethno-nationalist Dmitry Demushkin who also put anti-corruption high on his list of priorities for Russia.

    It's not bad, of course, but it's not a sign of a mature democracy. Anti-corruption and transparency should go without saying (ideally, together with a solid local middle class and a local wealthy industrial class, which unfortunately wasn't the case or wasn't the case fully in Estonia in 1991).

    I had something different in mind when I made those comparisons with Norway, etc. We touched upon this in our yesterday's convo about national democrats. Here is an excerpt from an article about them:

    "Тот же Крылов в 2010 году писал, что русский национализм как антиимперское движение появился только сейчас. До этого все рассуждения русских националистов сводились к мечтам, как бы нам обустроить империю сейчас. Национализм же, как совершенно справедливо считает Крылов, имеет иную цель: нация как ценность, государство для нации, а не нация для государства. Это базовая идея цивилизованного национализма — нация как источник власти, не монарх, не вождь."

    https://lenta.ru/articles/2015/07/09/nazdem/

    This is what Estonia has tried to achieve, not always successfully, of course, and not everyone has the same idea of how it is to be achieved. Same can be done in Russia, except that Russia is much larger and has to manage more diversity.

    Remember, it’s not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It’s a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

     

    Again, that's just about basic trust and functionality, not pure ideology. It's not about whether accounting and transparent budgeting is boring or exciting, it's just that it's necessary, so that there is at least some basic trust, the economy can function and also to maintain some kind of equality.

    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less.
     
    They pretend to care or even if they do care for real, they do so in order to be the ones in charge, to be the ones on top, to be the ones to teach others how to live. Because only they know what progress means. If you are not liberal, you are by default dumb and backward, and, of course, worst of all a tribal Nazi who they believe is dumb by definition (as if a high IQ person cannot be a nationalist, or even more commonly a conservative). They are more selfish than you think.

    They also care more about the human than the nation (which ironically can have severe consequences for individual humans in that nation).

    After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world

     

    They didn't start out as liberal. They had eugenics in the 1920s and Sweden had forced sterilization up until the 1970s - this is something that my country has never done! Also, I would characterize a lot of their political culture at least before the 1990s as national socialist and protectionist. Sure, they had social democracy and liberalism, but a lot of that functioned within relatively homogenous nation states (excluding the Sami), of course, until the onset of the more recent multi-cultural madness. Also, they export some of their social problems, in the sense that they go and set up businesses in places where they don't have to observe all the stringent labor laws that are in place in Scandinavia. They take their businesses to more capitalist societies such as the USA. They still have high standards, of course, but they don't have to deal with what they have to deal with at home (unions, etc). Nothing wrong with that, just keep that in mind when you idealise.

    and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.
     
    This might be an issue of perception, in a society that one is invested in, patriotic duty is a benefit to one's own family and to oneself. See the concept of Folk Hemmet. You are caring towards society because that's the society you want to live in, not just because it is the right thing to do. It's just common sense.

    the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.
     
    No, but I would assume, all else being equal, the mono-national could be easier to manage.

    is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence)
     
    It was there, it was just suppressed.

    So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).
     
    These two are irreconcilable. Smaller nations need nationalism to survive.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    individuals acting in a chaotic post-Soviet environment, not Northern Russians in their more organic, natural

    Sadly, there aren’t nowadays humans living in “organic, natural environment” (except maybe North Sentinelese), so we can’t test the corruption levels of a country which doesn’t exist. We live in our countries which are determined by the history and culture. In this world, Murmansk has a lot of famous corruption stories https://severpost.ru/read/41419/ so living near Norway doesn’t seem to give them anti-corruption ability. Norway doesn’t cross the border and design the judicial system. Perhaps if Norway will send polite people and annex the region, they would probably clean it in a few years.

    Same can be done in Russia, except that Russia

    You can see how effectively the FSB manage the opposition, when they create the zoo of freaks, to represent political ideas which are normal in the neighbor countries and would be probably mainstream for the Latvian airline pilots, engineers and doctors. The policy is to prevent it being a mainstream option that attracts the more adequate or socially accepted people. You know Navalny is a threat because he looks like a normal person.

    But interests of power in Russia are different in the geopolitical things like distribution of the resources and the political zoo is an entertainment industry (with the behavior of circus performer), which is downstream of the real power in the society.

    For example, consistent nationalism in Russia should result with Yakuts, which are currently asset-stripped, partly to pay for Moscow, having one of the most wealthy states in per capita terms, with the world’s largest diamond resources and the main gas source that moves in the pipe to China. Yakutia would not just become wealthy, but it would have important geopolitical power as a land gas source for the pipe to China.

    I know a person who works for the companies that use resources of Yakutia, another who has parents which benefit. The republic creates a lot of money in Russia.

    However, independent Yakutia would probably a government which introduces nationalist policies (as many new independent postsoviet countries like Ukraine, it would be immediately create for Moscow similar problems Sobchak was describing when Ukraine becomes independent), would give the jobs to their people. If they can follow anti-corruption, the resources would pay more for Yakuts, the wealth could pay for the local schools and hospitals, instead of going to Moscow or Monaco.

    The 19th century nationalists like Garibaldi could go to fight for the self-determination of Yakutia. But this would be the noninterest of some of the most powerful people of the Russian Federation, so it’s unlikely it can be allowed (powerful people would not allow it).

    For contrast, nationalism doesn’t have those implications in Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia. Nationalism is not conflicting with the interest of the some of the main power in the Baltic society and therefore the government doesn’t need a strategy to move it from the mainstream of society.

    had social democracy and liberalism

    Well, Scandinavians have their own view, but it is a type of the Western liberalism. But if you don’t think Scandinavia is a good example?

    What about in Israel, where the liberal politicians like Yitzhak Rabin are often war heroes, while right-wing conservative politicians are often religious people that do not go to the army (one of the most famous anti-liberal in Israel politicians is Deri, who was not in the army, but only in prison for fraud).

    Or about Poles? Polish people often have socially liberal and nationalist views at the same time.

  702. @QCIC
    @sudden death

    I hope to eventually hear a plausible story of what happened to the Moskva. I was really referring to the Northern and Pacific Fleets which could play a role if a wider war breaks out.

    I am a big fan of Admiral Marty, but could only handle the Saker in small doses.

    The Soviets were probably ahead in these radiant weapons and I assume the Russians have made some progress.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    You need to see the newest Wakanda movie, the movie which introduces the concept of “Third Power”. It is obviously not Wakanda, though (for some reason advanced Blacks – yes, but Blacks wanting to to take the world over – no, Blacks are gooood). Nevertheless, nowadays movies are here to prime you for this or that: I watch them to see what “this or that” could be.

    Moskva sinking, all these explosions deep in Russia, ha…?
    Ukie teams, yes?
    I bet on a power which attacked CIA with Havana Syndrome.
    Also, do you remember when Abramovich suddenly got completely white hair and was hospitalized in Istanbul..?

    Note that everyone (also Ukies with their outlandish claims) covers this. In this sense, they are on one board (also in space USA and Russia are still on one board), since ultimately they are directed by one power.

    Wait and see.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    You need to see the newest Wakanda movie, the movie which introduces the concept of “Third Power”.
     
    Just how cruel are you?

    The only time a Wakanda movie should be deployed is as an act of torture.

    You endured the waterboarding, but you are actually not so strong.

    I will never talk. Never betray my country.

    If you do not tell me what I want to know, I will place you in a cell with a Wakanda movie on maximum volume. You will hear the same nonsensical, plot hole filled, barely literate, drivel repeated for days. Indeed it might be the last thing you hear in your life.

    I'll talk. Anything but that. I will tell you anything you want to know.

    Yes. You will.

    (sound of cell door slamming shut)

     

    No one needs to watch a Wakanda movie. I cannot believe you wrote that.

    PEACE 😇
  703. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

    NS2 bombing was a Blinken & Nuland production.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.

    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn’t know this.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    , @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn’t know this.
     
    Errr...no they didn't . European consumption domestically of gas fell by 1/8th.

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.
     
    America wanted both Nordstreams inoperable you dimwit. And Turkstream which was also targeted. And any future gas pipeline (such as to India through Pakistan or to South Korea via North Korea).
    Russia, obviously, wanted both NS1 and 2 operable, with the NATO puppet German courts stopping NS2 from being operational probably being a key factor in why the SMO started. Both pipes have the capacity to deliver the same volumes of gas - so how you are reasoning that Russia would want the new one operational, at the expense of the first one.......is deranged.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  704. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.

    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn't know this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I know you're some sort of dweeb, and there's nothing wrong with that, but scuba diving 70 metres deep is not some difficult feat.

    60 metres is not even considered a deep dive in technical diving, which most recreational divers will do if they dive enough.

    It just requires a few calculations about how long you stay down there and how slowly you surface, and probably planning a decompression stop on your way up, and maybe use heliox instead of air.

    There are no lack of reasonably priced dive instructors around the world who will do all of this planning for you and guide you, so you literally just float and follow, without any sort of skill other than remaining calm, if you have done enough dives and some very easy qualifications, that maybe even you might be able to succeed in.

    Approximate question for the theory part of the Rescue Diver's course:

    If you're eating lunch on the beach and you see someone drowning, do you:

    A) order a cocktail
    B) immediately sprint into the sea like a madman
    C) go to the airport
    D) assess the situation, follow the correct course and take considered action

    Unsurprisingly, some variation of D is a pretty much the answer to every single exam question.

    In fact, if you want to know something extraordinary, the deepest dive with no air, i.e the deepest free dive, is 214 metres deep. That's 3 times lower than where the pipes sat.

    Maybe you should go and do something like this? Scuba diving is extremely straightforward to pick up, and isn't dangerous or tricky or anything, but maybe if you do one manly or adventurous thing, you'll no longer get so priapic over Putin and how many tanks he claims to have.

    Dahab in Egypt would be a great place to learn. It is very safe, reasonably priced and the entrance to the sea is calm and shallow, meaning that your first lessons can be there, rather than a pool. Egyptian food is also good and the locals compassionate and polite towards tourists, probably because that's the only industry, but it is still genuine.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @songbird
    @Wokechoke


    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?
     
    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don't know how they wouldn't have gotten hypothermia.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

  705. @AP
    @Beckow


    If? Poland was the first country in 1934 that signed a friendship and military cooperation with Nazi Germany in 1934
     
    You lie as usual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declaration_of_non-aggression

    It was simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other's borders and declared that it wouldn't attack the other.

    It was not a treaty of cooperation, like the Nazis and the Soviets signed.

    The German–Polish declaration of non-aggression (German: Erklärung zwischen Deutschland und Polen über den Verzicht auf Gewaltanwendung, Polish: Deklaracja między Polską a Niemcami o niestosowaniu przemocy),[1] also known as the German–Polish non-aggression pact, was a non-aggression agreement between Nazi Germany and the Second Polish Republic that was signed on 26 January 1934 in Berlin.[2] Both countries pledged to resolve their problems by bilateral negotiations and to forgo armed conflict for a period of 10 years. The agreement effectively normalised relations between Poland and Germany, which had been strained by border disputes arising from the territorial settlement in the Treaty of Versailles. Germany effectively recognised Poland's borders and moved to end an economically-damaging customs war between the two countries that had taken place over the previous decade

    what matters is what happened: Russia at a high cost liberated Poland
     
    What happens is what mattered: Poland rather than throw it's 100,000s of troops against the Soviets alongside the Germans and allowed the Germans to start their anti-Soviet war in Volhynia, fought against the Germans.

    Poles – and you – will never forgive Russia for doing it.
     
    You will never forgive Poland, because while you and your people were lackeys, Poland always resists. They resisted the Nazis whom you would have gladly served had you been around then, and resisted the Soviets, whom you served. Now you think that Putin is strong and the West is weak, so you eagerly seek him out to serve his interests. If he falls it will be the Chinese. If AfD ever come to power you will revert to licking the German boot. Orban's Hungary is too small for you, but maybe he will have do? That will be your traditional place. You are always looking for a boot to lick.

    it would be only fair for Poland to return all the territories that Russia gave them in 1945
     
    The USSR (you are historically illiterate and don't know the difference between the USSR and Russia) took territories in the East. The Allies then exchanged territories lost in the East, for ancient Polish territories in the West than had become settled mostly by Germans over the centuries. As a reward for Poland's resistance and compensation for the losses in the East.

    But Stalin insisted that Poland give up Tesin to Czechoslovakia. That was wrong.

    Your residual Nazi collaborationism perhaps inspires you to want the Nazi electoral heartland in East Prussia to be given back.

    there were no Poles living there
     
    You are back to lying as usual. Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.

    There were very few left in 1945. Your current allies, Germans, made sure of that…so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans. Your silly canard of ‘historical’ lands can be used by anywhere – wasn’t “Ukraine” historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar? Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland but due to Polish cosmic, almost absurd, ingratitude they should now do the decent thing and return it. You can’t benefit from sacrifices by people you pathologically hate.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR. We understand how weasels like you manipulate language, don’t be so obvious. It was Ukies, Belarussians and Lithuanians who took eastern Poland. Discuss it with them – it has nothing to do with Russia.

    Your discourse on ‘lackeydom‘ is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states…acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive. Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal – they either hated Poles too much or needed the land more immediately. In any case, your point is invalid – we are pragmatic people and don’t rush machine guns. If you are proud of Poles for eagerly dying, well, it is for you guys to resolve.

    simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other’s borders and declared that it wouldn’t attack the other.

    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word – a Non-aggression Treaty. It had a secret addendum that deliminated spheres of interest, that’s why Galicia and the Baltics fell under the Soviets. Did the Polish-German Treaty had one? We don’t know, knowing the Polish propensity for lying I wouldn’t be surprised. But the treaties very very similar.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy. It changed the balance in E Europe – Poles betrayed the rest of us. It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski’ funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade, etc…You are again lying to deny the obvious because you want your made-up mythological narrative.

    In this war you will do the same: as Ukies lose you will redraw the “goals” and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin, they didn’t achieve their aims. People like you are a historical garbage: you live in a made-world, obsessively cherry-pick one-sided ‘facts’, and when you lose you lie about it. Good luck with that, reality tends to prevail…if Russia keeps Azov, Donbas, if Ukies are not in Nato – Russia will have won. Deal with it. All else is happy talk by losers.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Beckow

    Good point. Russia didn’t do anything to Polish territory. Ukies Lithuanians and Belorussians may have. Although ww2 may have given us the definite Poland.

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    “Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.”

    There were very few left in 1945
     
    Yet another lie from you. Silesia in Poland is full of people whose grandparents or great-grandparents lived there prior to the war. The 3 million ethnic Poles murdered by the people whose faithful lackeys you were, were murdered throughout the country.

    so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans
     
    I know, you feel sorry for your masters.

    Your silly canard of ‘historical’ lands can be used by anywhere – wasn’t “Ukraine” historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar
     
    It was historically populated by the ancestors of the current population, just as Silesia and other former German lands were historically populated by western Slavs.

    Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland

     

    Ignorant Beckow doesn’t even know the difference between Russia and the USSR.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR
     
    No, I’m consistent. You are the one who mixes them up when convenient. For example about you claim that Ukrainian victims of Germans were Russians.

    Your discourse on ‘lackeydom‘ is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states…acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive
     
    Your excuse for being a lackey of the Nazis was “necessity, opportunism, desire to survive.”

    And, like a naughty child - “they did it too!”

    But it is a lie. Nazis had to invade and fight against Norway, Netherlands, France, etc. But your people eagerly served the Nazis. In fact, your people were so eager to lick your master’s boots that you yourselves even paid to have your Jews exterminated. No one else did that.

    Slovakia (population 2.6 million in 1940) provided 45,000 for their German masters. Norway (population 2.9 million in 1940) had 15,000 volunteer troops. The Netherlands (population 8.8 million in 1940) provided 22,000 troops.

    Don’t hide behind other countries, Beckow. You were the champion in servitude.

    Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal
     
    You lie as usual.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jozef-Pilsudski/Later-years

    “ Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose.”

    Poland was offered the same deal that Slovakia took, but Poland refused. Poland behaved honorably and your people did not. That’s why you hate Poland.

    we are pragmatic people

     

    Indeed, pragmatism is your excuse for servility.

    You assumed Ukrainians would throw away their independence without a fight, and accept becoming lackeys for Russians and Chechens, for the sake of “pragmatism.”

    It’s something you would have done.

    So whose boots will you lick if Putin loses? The Chinese? The Germans again, if AfD were to lose power? Or would you go really old-school and return to Orban? His policies towards Russia and Ukraine align with yours.

    This is the main concern in Beckow’s little mind.

    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word – a Non-aggression Treaty
     
    You are the one playing with words. The Polish treaty was nothing more than a recognition of the borders and agreement not to attack one another.

    M-R between the Nazis and the Soviets, on the other hand not only agreed not to attack one another but also agreed not to help anyone at war against the other, and to cooperate in the division of Eastern Europe (which even you are forced to admit to but that you dismissed).

    Moreover, the Nazis and the Soviets followed up with the German–Soviet Trade and Credit Agreement and the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement. The agreements continued Nazi–Soviet economic relations and resulted in the delivery of large amounts of raw materials to Germany, including over 820,000 metric tons (900,000 short tons; 810,000 long tons) of oil, 1,500,000 metric tons (1,700,000 short tons; 1,500,000 long tons) of grain and 130,000 metric tons (140,000 short tons; 130,000 long tons) of manganese ore.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy
     
    Because they had a mutual border and it had not been mutually recognized.

    It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski’ funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade

     

    We know you are rather stupid and slow. Reread this, perhaps out loud:

    “Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose”

    Germany indeed repeatedly sought out an alliance with Poland, and Poland kept refusing.

    A “pragmatic” lackey such as yourself wouldn’t have done what Poland did, of course. We know.

    Poland’s honorable refusal of a German alliance saved the USSR. Ungrateful Sovoks murdered 100,000s of Poles and then occupied Poland.

    as Ukies lose you will redraw the “goals” and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin

     

    My goals don’t change. I have been clear from the start that if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw. Putin outlined Russia’s goals, most of them will probably not be met. Gaining a land corridor to Crimea (15% of Ukrainian territory) but utterly losing Ukraine is a loss for Russia. Likely there will be total de-Russification in Ukraine, Ukraine will be highly militarised, and highly nationalistic. So much for Russian as second language, demilitarization, and so-called de-Nazification (Putin’s stated goals). Ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut may be consolation prizes for the loser. Perhaps some great farmland too, unfortunately.

    Replies: @Beckow

  706. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AnonfromTN

    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg) whereas USA has many of them: this is Russia basic weakness in nukes exchange, which would be a contingency game based on efficiency of antimissiles. This is also the reason why Russia build a kind of antimissile shield around Moscow whereas USA did not around its cities (AFAIK). However, there is a way to counter even an efficient antimissile shield, and this is SATURATION, much easier to be done when there are fewer targets, as in Russia.

    In some ways, Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    If it comes to it, military bases would be the first targets. Big cities would probably follow and symbolism matters. Having a larger number of well known symbolic cities – as US does – is not an advantage. In Russia most people only know two Moscow-St.P, nuking Samara would not have the same impact (except in Samara).

    We are also skipping over Europe and if there is a nuke exchange Europe wouldn’t be bypassed – up to 2022 there was the possibility that US-Russia would keep it to themselves, but with the Euro-clowns lining up for sacrifice it is no longer possible. Euro countries are extremely centralized: France w Paris, UK w London, etc…

    The other factor that matters is pure size: on that metric both Russia and US do much better, any nukes would possibly dissipate over their large territories. It again comes out that Europe would be much worse. Given that, the unseemly rush by Macron, Sholtz, UK-morons, and Poland to escalate is hard to understand. The Poles like to bleed, but with the others I am starting to suspect that they have been given no choice.

  707. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    I know you’re some sort of dweeb, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but scuba diving 70 metres deep is not some difficult feat.

    60 metres is not even considered a deep dive in technical diving, which most recreational divers will do if they dive enough.

    It just requires a few calculations about how long you stay down there and how slowly you surface, and probably planning a decompression stop on your way up, and maybe use heliox instead of air.

    There are no lack of reasonably priced dive instructors around the world who will do all of this planning for you and guide you, so you literally just float and follow, without any sort of skill other than remaining calm, if you have done enough dives and some very easy qualifications, that maybe even you might be able to succeed in.

    Approximate question for the theory part of the Rescue Diver’s course:

    If you’re eating lunch on the beach and you see someone drowning, do you:

    A) order a cocktail
    B) immediately sprint into the sea like a madman
    C) go to the airport
    D) assess the situation, follow the correct course and take considered action

    Unsurprisingly, some variation of D is a pretty much the answer to every single exam question.

    In fact, if you want to know something extraordinary, the deepest dive with no air, i.e the deepest free dive, is 214 metres deep. That’s 3 times lower than where the pipes sat.

    Maybe you should go and do something like this? Scuba diving is extremely straightforward to pick up, and isn’t dangerous or tricky or anything, but maybe if you do one manly or adventurous thing, you’ll no longer get so priapic over Putin and how many tanks he claims to have.

    Dahab in Egypt would be a great place to learn. It is very safe, reasonably priced and the entrance to the sea is calm and shallow, meaning that your first lessons can be there, rather than a pool. Egyptian food is also good and the locals compassionate and polite towards tourists, probably because that’s the only industry, but it is still genuine.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Dahab in Egypt would be a great place to learn. It is very safe, reasonably priced and the entrance to the sea is calm and shallow, meaning that your first lessons can be there, rather than a pool.
     
    Hurghada is also a good place to go scuba diving.

    https://youtu.be/c108V_Vfddk

    There’s a resort town called El Gouna 20 minutes out from Hurghada that’s nicer and more high-end. Would recommend for people to stay there instead of Hurghada proper.

    Egyptian food is also good and the locals compassionate and polite towards tourists, probably because that’s the only industry, but it is still genuine.
     
    Yes in the touristy areas the local Egyptians are pretty nice and well-behaved. They are used to dealing with foreigners.

    But beware of urban Egyptians. They are may seem friendly and jovial on the surface; but they’re out to scam you and if a female; harass you. Some naive European women come here thinking they can be dressed half-naked like they usually do in their countries; expecting nothing to happen to them. But unless they are with a tough-looking male; they will be harassed (though this usually doesn’t extend beyond cat-calling).

    Also the “system” (if one exists) here is fairly arbitrary so there’s a fair chance of being stopped by the police or security who will demand a bribe to let you go. Obviously not every tourist is abused; but a good number of them have been; sufficient to discourage tourists from coming here. The people around Ancient Egyptian sites are also an annoyance; very persistent and obnoxious. They force themselves on you until you give them money. Mark Twain remarked on the tendency of Egyptian beggars to “provide their unwanted services, uninvited” during his trips in Innocents Abroad. Nothing has changed in 150 years ago in that regard.

    Generally; other MENA countries are more functional and orderly than Egypt. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are the most functional places; the airports and public infrastructure etc. are in many ways superior to Western countries. Jordan is pretty good too; the people are less outwardly friendly than Egyptians but aren’t brazen scammers and beggars. On the other hand; there are comparatively fewer activities to do there. Probably Turkey is the best place to visit in MENA; but that’s hardly a controversial opinion.
  708. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Frankly, every morning I wake up, I find myself surprised about the current state of affairs. How did I get into such a warped time-line ? I would prefer being in some other parallel world without the sh☆t I read as news on teh internets. This planet starts looking like the galactic asylum for mentally retarded. And when a fool like me says that people look retarded, this is even more bad news.

    It is actually sad.

    And yes Gagarin had a beautiful smile. I have the impression people smiled more openly and genuinely back then.

    Which makes me think of:

    https://youtu.be/P47V4SASwGc

    Lately I found myself thinking of re-reading Yefremov's Andromeda. Perhaps I will do it on the weekend.

    (Where did it all go wrong ?)

    🙄

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    People doom as a way of coping for not being able to understand. You know this! It’ll all be fine.

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  709. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    I've been reading Charles Dickens lately, and it's been a wonderful experience - the funny thing is I couldn't stomach him as a child, because I myself was too "modern", I now see :)

    But Dickens is perhaps the anti-modern writer par excellence. His writing breathes a spirit so opposite to and inimical to the Machine that it's a wonder he's still allowed in print - his language is a luxuriant Gothic explosion, his characters are rich eccentrics and grotesques, odd and unexpected incidents and remarks abound, a rich sense of the absurd and the ridiculous create an atmosphere that has been described as "comic", but is really much more significant than that - it is a revolt against the bland uniformity of Machine life in favor of the irreducibly rich quiddity of human life.

    And there is a "sentimentality" that was much derided in the emerging hardness and "realism" of the early 20th century but can now be fully appreciated for what it is - Love, and kindness, and generosity.

    One of the great pleasures our ancestors had but is denied to ours dismal selves is to sink into an armchair on a cold winters evening, before a fire, in a room lit not by electricity but by candlelight, and delve into a thick Dickens novel. Gone are such delights.

    George Orwell, when he moved into his stone farmhouse in that remote Scottish island that he loved, said one of the great pleasures of life is candlelight - and I for one believe him. I've taken to reading real paper books by candlelight, especially in winter, and it is such a richer experience. Incidentally, I am a fan of the Kindle - when I travel I can take my entire library with me. But certain books have to be read on old paper, preferably yellowed, preferably by the light of a candle.

    When I was a kid reading fantasy books, some instinct led me to partially cover my bedroom lamp so only the dimmest light could shine through. Somehow I understood that certain things can only truly be appreciated in dimness and shadow.

    Junichiro Tanizaki wrote a wonderful little book on Japanese aesthetics called "In Praise of Shadows". In it he celebrates the Japanese love of dimly lighted rooms, shadows, obscurity, mist, fog, rain, dark corners, and mysterious distances, among other aspects of Japanese aesthetics - and contrasts it to the harsh bright lights of the emerging Western civilization.

    There is a wonderful little book by a Japanese author of the 1700s called "Tales of Rain and Moonlight" - what a wonderful name - that is a dozen or so tales of the macabre and mysterious. Nothing overly horrific or dramatic, just subtly atmospheric and unnerving.

    The writer that did most to dethrone Dickens was Earnest Hemingway, in favor of the dull flatness and bland uniformity of the times - and yet, that spirit was in the air, so I don't want to come down too hard on poor Hemingway, who wasn't so bad. Yet who reads Hemingway today? He's unreadable. But Dickens is still read - and, I predict, will be increasingly read as time passes and we seek ways out of the modern morass.

    It's highly significant that Victorian England loved Charles Dickens - they surely saw something opposing the spirit of their dismal times. One of the good things about that era - perhaps all eras - is that there always existed this sort of counter-culture that fought against the dominant trends, even if it couldn't win - for the time being.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Yahya, @LondonBob

    I think Dicken’s personal experience of his father going to debtor’s prison and his having to leave school to work in a factory at twelve gave him an insight in to humanity that others lack, sympathy for those struggling whilst being fully aware many had reached a state through their own choices.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @LondonBob

    Yes, he had some tough things happen to him - Victorian London was not a bed of roses.

    But that he responded to this not by becoming "hard" and uncaring, but by developing a great compassion, is a measure of the greatness of the man.

  710. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LondonBob, @A123

    Hersh has great sources, especially in the DoD, obviously the source(s) will want to retain some degree of anonymity, so there will be ambiguity. Larry Johnson has highlighted the P8 Poseidon that dropped the buoy was tracked.

    https://sonar21.com/independent-evidence-confirms-key-part-of-sy-hershs-report-on-the-attack-on-nord-stream-2/

    The Rand report, Milley’s comments, Naftali Bennett’s revelations, Musk’s rebelling and even some GOP like Senator Mike Roger’s calling for an end. Looks like pressure is beginning to be brought on the Judeo-Hibernian cabal. Everyone else knows this war of choice has been a disaster, pressure needs to be applied to stop it now.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @LondonBob

    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.

    It is the best maintained comms network in the world, with only the most highly-vetted operators and security, as well as being totally untraceable and undecipherable.

    Furthermore, it is particularly good in the Baltic Sea, for obvious historical reasons.

    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.

    The obvious conclusion is that whomever made up Sy Hersh's story did so with TV movie special screenwriting. Nevermind the ridiculous claim that the Americans set the explosives during a 16 country military exercise. As if the one time when everyone is looking at you, in that area, including the Russians, is the one time you would choose to act, when obviously it is the one time you would not, again unless you're some clueless fantasist with TV special screenwriting skills.

    This is like Ron Unz's claim that the US infiltrated COVID into China "under the cover of a military visit." Completely laughably stupid as a claim, but apparently quite compelling to clueless fantasists on the internet. Lol

    Also, Nordstream 2 is fine. It works. Nordstream 1 got blown up. You know the pipe that Russia wanted closed? well it ended up getting closed, by the explosives, and the pipe that Russia didn't want closed, but the US did, is absolutely fine.

    If you want proof that God cares for you, just notice that you're not all dead of stupidity and are, in fact, relatively thriving. Like toddlers at a kindergarten with invisible walls. You might not see them, but they keep you safe, even if repeatedly doing idiotic things, like walking into the walls and constructing bizarre fantasies for why your head hurts.

    Replies: @A123, @Wokechoke

  711. @LatW
    @LatW


    It looks like the British are ready to provide long range missiles (possibly Storm Shadow). There is also talk of the Eurofighter (of course, it’s early to say but why train pilots?).
     
    And, by the way, Zelensky's visit to London was only the beginning - the foundation has been laid, the next visit for Zelensky is with Scholz and Macron (they will most likely talk about jets), then there is another Ramstein meeting and then the Munich security conference. So eventually, by February 24, the one year anniversary of this horrific war, a final, crucial decision could be made to help Ukraine finish this.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Sean, @LondonBob

    Wunderwaffe de jour, will have as much impact as the Switchblade did. Reality is when the false flag missile hit Poland even the Judeo-Hibernian junta blinked, a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @LondonBob

    haha, truly worthy sucessor and admirer of Baghdad Bob, as soon as RF got badly smacked in a serious full armoured offensive, starts to pontificate about grand historic victory;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19484

    https://vk.com/igoristrelkov?w=wall347260249_672986

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @LondonBob


    a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.
     
    What will that "historic Russian victory" achieve?

    Replies: @sudden death

  712. This is what happens when you rely on a private firm for your reconnaissance. You learn that a gift is not always a gift. It is only ironic when you know that in German “Gift” means “poison”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/09/zelenskiy-aide-takes-aim-at-curbs-on-ukraine-use-of-starlink-to-pilot-drones-elon-musk

    Interestingly, this happen just about the time when Russia is to launch a new offensive.

    Instead asking for jets, Ukraine should have asked for satellites.

  713. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Northern Russians, at least, are not that clannis
     
    ?
    Putin, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Medvedev, Patrushev, Sobchak, Miller etc.

    The most ruling and interloyal political clan of the Russian Federation since 1996.


    They have more of an egalitarian type of thinking.
     
    Murmansk is one of the regions most famous for corruption in Russia especially with the local officials.

    Most of this does not contradict the nationalist agenda.

     

    Estonia is the closest example I can think where there is the connection of nationalism with the successful reform for anticorruption, democracy.

    I assume most everyone in Estonia is a kind of nationalist, as (I assume?) nationalism is the mainstream of the Estonian society. Estonians are people with a strong nationalism. But it is liberal politicians in Estonia which attained this, and Estonia has liberal rulers since independence. So, perhaps you can say it is a kind of Estonian liberal/nationalist viewpoint.

    Remember, it's not just flag waving, but the successful of anticorruption, is because of people who like to do boring things like accountancy. It's a result of accurate and pedantic people. Accountants are not the most exciting people, but they can be the profession who save your business or your country.

    Just like Erdogan is happy to promote all this romantic Islamist and Ottoman dreams in populist way for his people, but the successful policy for saving the country from earthquake - so tens of thousands of people are not killed under falling buildings, would be depending from pedantic engineers that re-check their calculations.


    were liberals (and in some cases, unfortunately, neo-liberals, but a lot of this was done with their nations in mind,
     
    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    This is only partly about ideology, but more about the will of the people to create a civic society to build and maintain these structures.

     

    If you look at the corruption ranking by transparency international, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/202

    https://i.imgur.com/XaD7yGK.jpg


    Russia and Brazil are the multinational countries with the low ranking, but overall, the multinational vs mononational is probably not determining for the corruption topic.

    There is multinational Singapore or Canada which have some of the most anti-corruption. There is mononational China with high corruption.

    -

    If you think about some of the damaging problems in Russia - autocracy, imperialism, corruption.

    The multinational elite is connected with the topic of imperialism and superpower aims. Although I'm not sure I can say what is cause or effect. Does multinational elite cause imperialism, or is multinational elite one of the results of imperialism? Imperialism is possibly more creating the multinationalism, than result of it.

    Reducing multinationalism, could allow the country to reduce the imperialism, which would allow the country to focus more on the internal development, rights of its people. However, this would also require reducing superpower ambitions of the country, which will be difficult for politicians to follow.

    The disaster of postsoviet imperialism is the war with Ukraine. From the Russian side, it is probably not related to the national composition of the elite. Although the view in Russia since Sobchak, has been to predict that cause of conflict in Ukraine, is the rise of nationalism in Ukraine (which becomes mainstream with independence). So, has been viewed as a conflict between nationalism (Ukraine) vs imperialism (Russia).

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.

    It can be the case that liberals and non-liberals have different definitions of what a nation is:

    Nationalist: ‘…the nation is not the product of a certain number of individuals living at one given moment and having in common certain ideas, certain passing fancies, but of a certain number of families reaching out from age to age and having in common certain permanent interests; the land to be defended, the continuity of the race to be assured, a fund of moral and economic capital to be developed’.

    Liberal: ‘A considerable quantity of people inhabiting a certain area of country defined by its borders and which obeys the same government’. Or a nation is an agregation of free and equal individuals who form a community to maximise their freedom (the nation as instrument of human emancipation idea).

    Perhaps the Scandinavian examples can be described in different ways. Either they represent a human ideal because they have a greater sense of folk community, or they represent a human ideal because they have internalised universal rational values more deeply. It’s hard to tell given Germanic Northern European countries have been seen as a model or ideal in terms of patriotic/civic duty for a long time, even back into the 18th and 19th centuries when they were not modern liberal regimes.

    At the moment my impression of the Russian regime is that it is still characterised by a type of statism on autopilot, where as yet there isn’t a strong ideal based on something like folk community, nor an animating ideal based on some form of universal belief system. The elites maintain a state and a government for the people but seem somewhat detached from it, with as much interest in their personal concerns as the Res Publica.

    Maybe the war will alter this, in his tweets Karlin seemed to be hoping for it earlier on last year. I think German_Reader used to criticise him about it, arguing that war shouldn’t be instrumentalised to try to create a healthy national ideal.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    Nationalist, Liberal: ‘
     
    Nationalism was part of liberalism, in those epoch when these were important ideologies in Europe. It's based in the concept of national self-determination, which is part of the category of freedom.

    Historically, the conservatives in Europe usually support empires and religions, oppose nations. They will support the larger multinational categories, which people need to obey, which represent a multinational elite (this was the aristocracy, church).

    Nationalism is connected to Republican government, rule of the people, often anti-elite ideology. It was an ideology which was dangerous for the old elite.

    It's in 21st century, Great Britain, there has been a reverse. EU in Brussels, is viewed as the new kind of Catholic church in Rome. Conservative Party has been supporting Brexit, viewed as a kind of national-liberation.

    While nationalists of Scotland and Ireland are supporting the EU like the 16th century politicians supporting the Pope in Rome.


    Scandinavian examples can be described in different ways. Either they represent a human ideal because they have a greater sense of folk community, .. Russian regime is that it is still characterised by a type of statism on autopilot, where as yet there isn’t a strong ideal based on something like folk community,
     
    I think in some countries you give something to the society and the society returns something, or at least you work isn't supposed to buy champagne in Monaco. But in other countries, it buys the champagne in Monaco.

    In terms of Russia, we have this historical path, where I think it's a kind of binary. In Soviet times, the money was going to the pay for the country, but sometimes in a bit nonrational ways, to build thousands of missiles or space program, to invest in Vorkuta. But in postsoviet times, it goes to Monaco.

    So, now there feels this sense of the extreme choice from the state, between prioritization in the rational and hedonistic (postsoviet) or prioritization in the nonhedonistic and irrational (Soviet).

  714. @LondonBob
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I think Dicken's personal experience of his father going to debtor's prison and his having to leave school to work in a factory at twelve gave him an insight in to humanity that others lack, sympathy for those struggling whilst being fully aware many had reached a state through their own choices.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, he had some tough things happen to him – Victorian London was not a bed of roses.

    But that he responded to this not by becoming “hard” and uncaring, but by developing a great compassion, is a measure of the greatness of the man.

  715. @LondonBob
    @Wokechoke

    Hersh has great sources, especially in the DoD, obviously the source(s) will want to retain some degree of anonymity, so there will be ambiguity. Larry Johnson has highlighted the P8 Poseidon that dropped the buoy was tracked.

    https://sonar21.com/independent-evidence-confirms-key-part-of-sy-hershs-report-on-the-attack-on-nord-stream-2/

    The Rand report, Milley's comments, Naftali Bennett's revelations, Musk's rebelling and even some GOP like Senator Mike Roger's calling for an end. Looks like pressure is beginning to be brought on the Judeo-Hibernian cabal. Everyone else knows this war of choice has been a disaster, pressure needs to be applied to stop it now.



    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1619812606700654592?s=20&t=i3UMf3LRu1tDDpiRyZvp9Q

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.

    It is the best maintained comms network in the world, with only the most highly-vetted operators and security, as well as being totally untraceable and undecipherable.

    Furthermore, it is particularly good in the Baltic Sea, for obvious historical reasons.

    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.

    The obvious conclusion is that whomever made up Sy Hersh’s story did so with TV movie special screenwriting. Nevermind the ridiculous claim that the Americans set the explosives during a 16 country military exercise. As if the one time when everyone is looking at you, in that area, including the Russians, is the one time you would choose to act, when obviously it is the one time you would not, again unless you’re some clueless fantasist with TV special screenwriting skills.

    This is like Ron Unz’s claim that the US infiltrated COVID into China “under the cover of a military visit.” Completely laughably stupid as a claim, but apparently quite compelling to clueless fantasists on the internet. Lol

    Also, Nordstream 2 is fine. It works. Nordstream 1 got blown up. You know the pipe that Russia wanted closed? well it ended up getting closed, by the explosives, and the pipe that Russia didn’t want closed, but the US did, is absolutely fine.

    If you want proof that God cares for you, just notice that you’re not all dead of stupidity and are, in fact, relatively thriving. Like toddlers at a kindergarten with invisible walls. You might not see them, but they keep you safe, even if repeatedly doing idiotic things, like walking into the walls and constructing bizarre fantasies for why your head hurts.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.
    ...
    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.
     
    The P-8 buoy drop is consistent with a long duration industrial accident.

    In addition to communications, the U.S. has extensive passive sonar nets. The system heard something moving but could not identify it. Hydrates accumulating in pipelines is not a standard detection event. After hours of these "event not known" warnings more sensitive instruments were placed on scene to investigate.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    A Navy should never assume communications are secure when an act of war like this is being planned and executed. Ultra and other events like Midway ought to inform that hubris.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  716. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LondonBob, @A123

    The Hersh article is very plausible and has all the details that ring true.

    A counter example for blame would have to be written. And it can’t.

    The LawDog articles are very plausible and have all of the details that ring true.

    So, the counter scenario, an industrial accident, has been written. (1) (2)

    In my experience when anything involving energy-industry hydrocarbons explodes … well, sabotage isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. And honestly, when it comes to a pipeline running natural gas under Russian (non)maintenance, an explosion means that it’s Tuesday. Or Friday. Or another day of the week ending in “y”.

    “But, LawDog,” I hear you say, “It was multiple explosions!”

    Yes, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. Not without some Spec Ops guy having a fit of apoplexy. One pipe goes up in a busy shipping lane, in a busy sea, and everyone takes notice. Then you wait 17 hours to do the second — with 17 hours for people to show up and catch you running dirty? Nah, not buying it.

    The Nord pipelines weren’t in use. To me, that means it’s time for maintenance! Hard to maintain pipes when product is flowing.

    Pipelines running methane, under saltwater, require PMCS* quicker than you’d think, and more often than you’d believe.

    This is vastly more plausible than sabotage as it gives a credible explanation for the timing. Huge industrial equipment keeps going for hours and hours even after valves are closed. There is no off switch, it is a shutdown process.

    That everyone immediately jumps to sabotage is a problem. If you must go down that road — consider the amount of greed and self interest in Europe is strangling the world. How about this scenario? “Some Poles did it to simultaneously shaft Germany & Russia”. It might not even be the Polish government.

    The Hersh story is intriguing. However, with much more plausible scenarios in play, it is going to take hard evidence, not “anonymous sources”.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

  717. @LondonBob
    @LatW

    Wunderwaffe de jour, will have as much impact as the Switchblade did. Reality is when the false flag missile hit Poland even the Judeo-Hibernian junta blinked, a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    haha, truly worthy sucessor and admirer of Baghdad Bob, as soon as RF got badly smacked in a serious full armoured offensive, starts to pontificate about grand historic victory;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19484

    https://vk.com/igoristrelkov?w=wall347260249_672986

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Autotranslate of Strelkov posting with my own minor corrections:


    Since the defeat near Vuhledar is already widely known (many videos shot by drones of Kiev partners are posted on the network), I will have to comment separately (I didn’t want to do this before, as well as report losses).

    It seems that all the events of the past year passed by our generals. However, since some of them are (at least from the moment they entered military schools) complete cretins, all the mistakes that were made before were exemplarily repeated. The advance of tank and motorized columns along narrow roads along rare forest plantations on ideally flat terrain (since there are minefields on the sides), not covered from the air and by anti-electronic forces, ended in defeat. Part of the equipment was destroyed by ATGM strikes (launched from the high-rise buildings of Ugledar), part was shot by enemy artillery, which fired extremely accurately. More than 30 units of armored vehicles were lost (I will not give a breakdown by type), losses of killed only among tankers - many dozens. Marines, special forces and motorized riflemen died even more. And - most importantly - all these losses turned out to be "one-sided" - the ukrs shot the attackers "like in a shooting range", our fighters could not inflict counter losses on them. The enemy again without much difficulty held his positions in the fortified area, which had already been repeatedly attempted to take in the spring and summer of last year (also "head-on").

    At the same time, our military leaders (so as not to "get up twice") habitually sent for slaughter in the familiar area in the Donetsk "industrial complex" (they went on the assault dozens of times) to Avdeevka "renamed the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation" battalions of the former NM of the DPR and volunteer units. Without supporting them with either normal artillery fire (which was extremely inaccurate), or armored vehicles (which were "protected from mines", and it was not possible to clear the area for technical reasons). They killed two more companies of assault infantry with the same result as before - that is, to no avail.

    In general, this was the end of the "offensive of the Russian army on the entire Donetsk front" widely announced over the network by "cheers-military corps". Complemented by the rebellion (refusal to take the position) of the battalion of Tuvinian nomads and not only (in principle, I do not report anything about this kind of events until they are "leaked" by someone into the network and become publicly available).

    And that's all for now.
     
  718. @Leaves No Shadow
    @LondonBob

    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.

    It is the best maintained comms network in the world, with only the most highly-vetted operators and security, as well as being totally untraceable and undecipherable.

    Furthermore, it is particularly good in the Baltic Sea, for obvious historical reasons.

    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.

    The obvious conclusion is that whomever made up Sy Hersh's story did so with TV movie special screenwriting. Nevermind the ridiculous claim that the Americans set the explosives during a 16 country military exercise. As if the one time when everyone is looking at you, in that area, including the Russians, is the one time you would choose to act, when obviously it is the one time you would not, again unless you're some clueless fantasist with TV special screenwriting skills.

    This is like Ron Unz's claim that the US infiltrated COVID into China "under the cover of a military visit." Completely laughably stupid as a claim, but apparently quite compelling to clueless fantasists on the internet. Lol

    Also, Nordstream 2 is fine. It works. Nordstream 1 got blown up. You know the pipe that Russia wanted closed? well it ended up getting closed, by the explosives, and the pipe that Russia didn't want closed, but the US did, is absolutely fine.

    If you want proof that God cares for you, just notice that you're not all dead of stupidity and are, in fact, relatively thriving. Like toddlers at a kindergarten with invisible walls. You might not see them, but they keep you safe, even if repeatedly doing idiotic things, like walking into the walls and constructing bizarre fantasies for why your head hurts.

    Replies: @A123, @Wokechoke

    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.

    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.

    The P-8 buoy drop is consistent with a long duration industrial accident.

    In addition to communications, the U.S. has extensive passive sonar nets. The system heard something moving but could not identify it. Hydrates accumulating in pipelines is not a standard detection event. After hours of these “event not known” warnings more sensitive instruments were placed on scene to investigate.

    PEACE 😇

  719. @sudden death
    @LondonBob

    haha, truly worthy sucessor and admirer of Baghdad Bob, as soon as RF got badly smacked in a serious full armoured offensive, starts to pontificate about grand historic victory;)

    https://t.me/m0sc0wcalling/19484

    https://vk.com/igoristrelkov?w=wall347260249_672986

    Replies: @sudden death

    Autotranslate of Strelkov posting with my own minor corrections:

    Since the defeat near Vuhledar is already widely known (many videos shot by drones of Kiev partners are posted on the network), I will have to comment separately (I didn’t want to do this before, as well as report losses).

    It seems that all the events of the past year passed by our generals. However, since some of them are (at least from the moment they entered military schools) complete cretins, all the mistakes that were made before were exemplarily repeated. The advance of tank and motorized columns along narrow roads along rare forest plantations on ideally flat terrain (since there are minefields on the sides), not covered from the air and by anti-electronic forces, ended in defeat. Part of the equipment was destroyed by ATGM strikes (launched from the high-rise buildings of Ugledar), part was shot by enemy artillery, which fired extremely accurately. More than 30 units of armored vehicles were lost (I will not give a breakdown by type), losses of killed only among tankers – many dozens. Marines, special forces and motorized riflemen died even more. And – most importantly – all these losses turned out to be “one-sided” – the ukrs shot the attackers “like in a shooting range”, our fighters could not inflict counter losses on them. The enemy again without much difficulty held his positions in the fortified area, which had already been repeatedly attempted to take in the spring and summer of last year (also “head-on”).

    At the same time, our military leaders (so as not to “get up twice”) habitually sent for slaughter in the familiar area in the Donetsk “industrial complex” (they went on the assault dozens of times) to Avdeevka “renamed the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation” battalions of the former NM of the DPR and volunteer units. Without supporting them with either normal artillery fire (which was extremely inaccurate), or armored vehicles (which were “protected from mines”, and it was not possible to clear the area for technical reasons). They killed two more companies of assault infantry with the same result as before – that is, to no avail.

    In general, this was the end of the “offensive of the Russian army on the entire Donetsk front” widely announced over the network by “cheers-military corps”. Complemented by the rebellion (refusal to take the position) of the battalion of Tuvinian nomads and not only (in principle, I do not report anything about this kind of events until they are “leaked” by someone into the network and become publicly available).

    And that’s all for now.

  720. @LondonBob
    @LatW

    Wunderwaffe de jour, will have as much impact as the Switchblade did. Reality is when the false flag missile hit Poland even the Judeo-Hibernian junta blinked, a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.

    What will that “historic Russian victory” achieve?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What will that “historic Russian victory” achieve?
     
    Will achieve the grand feint, while preparing for even bigger galactic victory!
  721. [MORE]

    View post on imgur.com

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ

  722. @Another Polish Perspective
    @QCIC

    You need to see the newest Wakanda movie, the movie which introduces the concept of "Third Power". It is obviously not Wakanda, though (for some reason advanced Blacks - yes, but Blacks wanting to to take the world over - no, Blacks are gooood). Nevertheless, nowadays movies are here to prime you for this or that: I watch them to see what "this or that" could be.

    Moskva sinking, all these explosions deep in Russia, ha...?
    Ukie teams, yes?
    I bet on a power which attacked CIA with Havana Syndrome.
    Also, do you remember when Abramovich suddenly got completely white hair and was hospitalized in Istanbul..?

    Note that everyone (also Ukies with their outlandish claims) covers this. In this sense, they are on one board (also in space USA and Russia are still on one board), since ultimately they are directed by one power.

    Wait and see.

    Replies: @A123

    You need to see the newest Wakanda movie, the movie which introduces the concept of “Third Power”.

    Just how cruel are you?

    The only time a Wakanda movie should be deployed is as an act of torture.

    You endured the waterboarding, but you are actually not so strong.

    I will never talk. Never betray my country.

    If you do not tell me what I want to know, I will place you in a cell with a Wakanda movie on maximum volume. You will hear the same nonsensical, plot hole filled, barely literate, drivel repeated for days. Indeed it might be the last thing you hear in your life.

    I’ll talk. Anything but that. I will tell you anything you want to know.

    Yes. You will.

    (sound of cell door slamming shut)

    No one needs to watch a Wakanda movie. I cannot believe you wrote that.

    PEACE 😇

  723. @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.
     
    There were very few left in 1945. Your current allies, Germans, made sure of that...so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans. Your silly canard of 'historical' lands can be used by anywhere - wasn't "Ukraine" historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar? Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland but due to Polish cosmic, almost absurd, ingratitude they should now do the decent thing and return it. You can't benefit from sacrifices by people you pathologically hate.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR. We understand how weasels like you manipulate language, don't be so obvious. It was Ukies, Belarussians and Lithuanians who took eastern Poland. Discuss it with them - it has nothing to do with Russia.

    Your discourse on 'lackeydom' is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states...acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive. Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal - they either hated Poles too much or needed the land more immediately. In any case, your point is invalid - we are pragmatic people and don't rush machine guns. If you are proud of Poles for eagerly dying, well, it is for you guys to resolve.


    simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other’s borders and declared that it wouldn’t attack the other.
     
    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word - a Non-aggression Treaty. It had a secret addendum that deliminated spheres of interest, that's why Galicia and the Baltics fell under the Soviets. Did the Polish-German Treaty had one? We don't know, knowing the Polish propensity for lying I wouldn't be surprised. But the treaties very very similar.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy. It changed the balance in E Europe - Poles betrayed the rest of us. It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski' funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade, etc...You are again lying to deny the obvious because you want your made-up mythological narrative.

    In this war you will do the same: as Ukies lose you will redraw the "goals" and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin, they didn't achieve their aims. People like you are a historical garbage: you live in a made-world, obsessively cherry-pick one-sided 'facts', and when you lose you lie about it. Good luck with that, reality tends to prevail...if Russia keeps Azov, Donbas, if Ukies are not in Nato - Russia will have won. Deal with it. All else is happy talk by losers.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

    Good point. Russia didn’t do anything to Polish territory. Ukies Lithuanians and Belorussians may have. Although ww2 may have given us the definite Poland.

  724. @Wokechoke
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Russia would be doing Middle Americans a backhanded favor nuking NYC, Chicago and San Fran. LA ought to be spared though. It's hardly American any more and perhaps never really was.

    Replies: @S

    Russia would be doing Middle Americans a backhanded favor nuking NYC, Chicago and San Fran.

    The part about the nuking of New York City has already been foretold…

    ‘This used to be my home!’

  725. @Leaves No Shadow
    @LondonBob

    Why would they drop a buoy to set if off?

    The United States maintains a worldwide network of extremely low frequency communications for talking with its nuclear submarine fleet.

    It is the best maintained comms network in the world, with only the most highly-vetted operators and security, as well as being totally untraceable and undecipherable.

    Furthermore, it is particularly good in the Baltic Sea, for obvious historical reasons.

    In other words, they could have not engaged in the clown caper described in your link and instead merely pressed a button in a secure room that would set the explosives off.

    The obvious conclusion is that whomever made up Sy Hersh's story did so with TV movie special screenwriting. Nevermind the ridiculous claim that the Americans set the explosives during a 16 country military exercise. As if the one time when everyone is looking at you, in that area, including the Russians, is the one time you would choose to act, when obviously it is the one time you would not, again unless you're some clueless fantasist with TV special screenwriting skills.

    This is like Ron Unz's claim that the US infiltrated COVID into China "under the cover of a military visit." Completely laughably stupid as a claim, but apparently quite compelling to clueless fantasists on the internet. Lol

    Also, Nordstream 2 is fine. It works. Nordstream 1 got blown up. You know the pipe that Russia wanted closed? well it ended up getting closed, by the explosives, and the pipe that Russia didn't want closed, but the US did, is absolutely fine.

    If you want proof that God cares for you, just notice that you're not all dead of stupidity and are, in fact, relatively thriving. Like toddlers at a kindergarten with invisible walls. You might not see them, but they keep you safe, even if repeatedly doing idiotic things, like walking into the walls and constructing bizarre fantasies for why your head hurts.

    Replies: @A123, @Wokechoke

    A Navy should never assume communications are secure when an act of war like this is being planned and executed. Ultra and other events like Midway ought to inform that hubris.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    The comms they use to control their fleet of nuclear subs is obviously a lot more secure than some clown amateur's narrative of an operation to drop a buoy to set off a bomb.

    It is literally how they would tell their assets to launch in the case of a foreign power attempting a first strike on the United States.

    Nevermind that the communication could be for a delayed exploding and therefore absolutely indecipherable to the actual event.

    But you believed the clown amateur's narrative, so of course you'll believe anything, as long as it allows you to your slavering over Putin.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  726. @Leaves No Shadow
    @LondonBob


    a historic Russian victory is inevitable, too late now.
     
    What will that "historic Russian victory" achieve?

    Replies: @sudden death

    What will that “historic Russian victory” achieve?

    Will achieve the grand feint, while preparing for even bigger galactic victory!

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
  727. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    A Navy should never assume communications are secure when an act of war like this is being planned and executed. Ultra and other events like Midway ought to inform that hubris.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    The comms they use to control their fleet of nuclear subs is obviously a lot more secure than some clown amateur’s narrative of an operation to drop a buoy to set off a bomb.

    It is literally how they would tell their assets to launch in the case of a foreign power attempting a first strike on the United States.

    Nevermind that the communication could be for a delayed exploding and therefore absolutely indecipherable to the actual event.

    But you believed the clown amateur’s narrative, so of course you’ll believe anything, as long as it allows you to your slavering over Putin.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Seymour Hersh’s article is a good starting point. That’s all.

    On his report about My Lai Massacre I think he was covering up the racial aspect of the Mexican company commander and the nigger NCOs and the use of Colin Powell (as a numinous nigger) to cover up the out of control monkeyshines dynamic of the day. Blame the white subaltern. Defend the multicultural army.

    Hersh ought to be talking about the Jews who ordered the explosion as the hubristic Jews that they are. But he’s not gonna do that either.

    My beliefs are not in alignment with Hersh.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  728. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?

    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don’t know how they wouldn’t have gotten hypothermia.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    , @A123
    @songbird


    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don’t know how they wouldn’t have gotten hypothermia.
     
    LOL.. but No...

    The objective fact that LNS, others, and myself have repeated multiple times is that sabotage would not require "nation state" level resources. It could be accomplished by any group that has access to commercial grade divers and equipment. And, that is a very long list.

    While recreational divers can go that deep with little difficulty, actually working at that depth for an extended period requires more skill. Rushing against a time window when handling "boom" is very bad.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

  729. @Greasy William
    I keep going back and forth on Russia v Ukraine, so I want to take this post to layout the bear and bull case for Russia.

    Bear:
    1. Ukraine has essentially unlimited manpower so just killing lot's of Ukrainians won't win Russia the war
    2. Whatever problems the US has, it isn't going anywhere in the next 10 years so Ukraine will never run out of weaponry either
    3. Ukraine has superior military technology
    4. Ukraine's army is likely to become more effective with time as it is brought up to Western standards
    5. Russia's politicized and disjointed army is slow to make adjustments

    Bull:
    1. Russia also has infinite manpower and whereas Ukraine has already had to resort to press ganging, Russia is unlikely to be forced to take such measures until late this year at the earliest
    2. Technology alone doesn't win wars. Ukraine's advantage in technology will mean more favorable exchange ratios for themselves, but the tech edge will not be enough to defeat Russia. Russia has shown the ability to counter every bit of Western technology that Ukraine has deployed and there is no reason not to expect that to continue
    3. It remains unclear just how far the West is willing to go. Germany, Italy, France and Hungary are already looking for a way out and Turkey clearly does not want a total Russian defeat. The West will be in recession starting in May and aid to Ukraine is going to grow increasingly unpopular in America with time.
    4. China does not want a Russian defeat and will ensure Russia has enough support to continue fighting indefinitely
    5. Even if Ukraine regains all of it's territory, including the pre invasion territories, Russia will still continue to fight and the missile attacks on the Ukrainian interior will only increase with time, while the Russian homefront remains immune from Ukrainian counters

    It appears that we are at an impasse. The biggest problem right now is that Putin appears to still be holding out for total victory. The only thing that could potentially convince Russia to negotiate is a clear military defeat and/or the collapse of Putin's government and neither of those things appears to be in the cards

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @A123, @AnonfromTN, @Gerard1234, @RadicalCenter

    Appreciate the attempt to lay out pros and cons here, but the summary starts with an obviously wrong premise: that the anti-Russian ukrainians have an effectively unlimited supply of fighting men.

    NO. China and India may have an effectively unlimited supply of soldiers, but a small, old, further aging, declining population like the ukraine’s does not.

    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn’t it change the guesstimate of the outcome?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @RadicalCenter


    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn’t it change the guesstimate of the outcome?
     
    Yes it would BUT I have read even pro Russian sources say that Ukraine can mobilize up to 5 million if need be. Even if Ukraine can only mobilize a million, Russia can only kill 50k a year at most, probably more like 25k.

    Replies: @sudden death, @LondonBob

  730. AP says:
    @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.
     
    There were very few left in 1945. Your current allies, Germans, made sure of that...so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans. Your silly canard of 'historical' lands can be used by anywhere - wasn't "Ukraine" historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar? Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland but due to Polish cosmic, almost absurd, ingratitude they should now do the decent thing and return it. You can't benefit from sacrifices by people you pathologically hate.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR. We understand how weasels like you manipulate language, don't be so obvious. It was Ukies, Belarussians and Lithuanians who took eastern Poland. Discuss it with them - it has nothing to do with Russia.

    Your discourse on 'lackeydom' is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states...acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive. Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal - they either hated Poles too much or needed the land more immediately. In any case, your point is invalid - we are pragmatic people and don't rush machine guns. If you are proud of Poles for eagerly dying, well, it is for you guys to resolve.


    simply a declaration of non-aggression. Each country recognized the other’s borders and declared that it wouldn’t attack the other.
     
    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word - a Non-aggression Treaty. It had a secret addendum that deliminated spheres of interest, that's why Galicia and the Baltics fell under the Soviets. Did the Polish-German Treaty had one? We don't know, knowing the Polish propensity for lying I wouldn't be surprised. But the treaties very very similar.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy. It changed the balance in E Europe - Poles betrayed the rest of us. It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski' funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade, etc...You are again lying to deny the obvious because you want your made-up mythological narrative.

    In this war you will do the same: as Ukies lose you will redraw the "goals" and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin, they didn't achieve their aims. People like you are a historical garbage: you live in a made-world, obsessively cherry-pick one-sided 'facts', and when you lose you lie about it. Good luck with that, reality tends to prevail...if Russia keeps Azov, Donbas, if Ukies are not in Nato - Russia will have won. Deal with it. All else is happy talk by losers.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP

    “Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.”

    There were very few left in 1945

    Yet another lie from you. Silesia in Poland is full of people whose grandparents or great-grandparents lived there prior to the war. The 3 million ethnic Poles murdered by the people whose faithful lackeys you were, were murdered throughout the country.

    so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans

    I know, you feel sorry for your masters.

    Your silly canard of ‘historical’ lands can be used by anywhere – wasn’t “Ukraine” historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar

    It was historically populated by the ancestors of the current population, just as Silesia and other former German lands were historically populated by western Slavs.

    Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland

    Ignorant Beckow doesn’t even know the difference between Russia and the USSR.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR

    No, I’m consistent. You are the one who mixes them up when convenient. For example about you claim that Ukrainian victims of Germans were Russians.

    Your discourse on ‘lackeydom‘ is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states…acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive

    Your excuse for being a lackey of the Nazis was “necessity, opportunism, desire to survive.”

    And, like a naughty child – “they did it too!”

    But it is a lie. Nazis had to invade and fight against Norway, Netherlands, France, etc. But your people eagerly served the Nazis. In fact, your people were so eager to lick your master’s boots that you yourselves even paid to have your Jews exterminated. No one else did that.

    Slovakia (population 2.6 million in 1940) provided 45,000 for their German masters. Norway (population 2.9 million in 1940) had 15,000 volunteer troops. The Netherlands (population 8.8 million in 1940) provided 22,000 troops.

    Don’t hide behind other countries, Beckow. You were the champion in servitude.

    Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal

    You lie as usual.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jozef-Pilsudski/Later-years

    “ Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose.”

    Poland was offered the same deal that Slovakia took, but Poland refused. Poland behaved honorably and your people did not. That’s why you hate Poland.

    we are pragmatic people

    Indeed, pragmatism is your excuse for servility.

    You assumed Ukrainians would throw away their independence without a fight, and accept becoming lackeys for Russians and Chechens, for the sake of “pragmatism.”

    It’s something you would have done.

    So whose boots will you lick if Putin loses? The Chinese? The Germans again, if AfD were to lose power? Or would you go really old-school and return to Orban? His policies towards Russia and Ukraine align with yours.

    This is the main concern in Beckow’s little mind.

    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word – a Non-aggression Treaty

    You are the one playing with words. The Polish treaty was nothing more than a recognition of the borders and agreement not to attack one another.

    M-R between the Nazis and the Soviets, on the other hand not only agreed not to attack one another but also agreed not to help anyone at war against the other, and to cooperate in the division of Eastern Europe (which even you are forced to admit to but that you dismissed).

    Moreover, the Nazis and the Soviets followed up with the German–Soviet Trade and Credit Agreement and the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement. The agreements continued Nazi–Soviet economic relations and resulted in the delivery of large amounts of raw materials to Germany, including over 820,000 metric tons (900,000 short tons; 810,000 long tons) of oil, 1,500,000 metric tons (1,700,000 short tons; 1,500,000 long tons) of grain and 130,000 metric tons (140,000 short tons; 130,000 long tons) of manganese ore.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy

    Because they had a mutual border and it had not been mutually recognized.

    It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski’ funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade

    We know you are rather stupid and slow. Reread this, perhaps out loud:

    “Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose”

    Germany indeed repeatedly sought out an alliance with Poland, and Poland kept refusing.

    A “pragmatic” lackey such as yourself wouldn’t have done what Poland did, of course. We know.

    Poland’s honorable refusal of a German alliance saved the USSR. Ungrateful Sovoks murdered 100,000s of Poles and then occupied Poland.

    as Ukies lose you will redraw the “goals” and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin

    My goals don’t change. I have been clear from the start that if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw. Putin outlined Russia’s goals, most of them will probably not be met. Gaining a land corridor to Crimea (15% of Ukrainian territory) but utterly losing Ukraine is a loss for Russia. Likely there will be total de-Russification in Ukraine, Ukraine will be highly militarised, and highly nationalistic. So much for Russian as second language, demilitarization, and so-called de-Nazification (Putin’s stated goals). Ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut may be consolation prizes for the loser. Perhaps some great farmland too, unfortunately.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim - like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934 (just read what the British-French gments said about it at that time), you start redefining words, adding pointless minutia, denying a detail here and there, and calling others names. It is childish, it doesn't work - it reflects you poor American education, your propagandized and ideological mind, and being raised on Hollywood myths. No point in taking you seriously, you are basically an industrious fool.

    But the current war we can discuss:


    ... if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.
     
    'brothers'? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable...

    To evaluate those two points you need to define "joins" and "minimal". If Kiev doesn't join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing. I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria. But the "join" and "minimal" are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more "joining" they will be able to do. But is it going to be a "Ukraine" any more?

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let's say 20-30% of the current Ukraine. And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine. Russians have ways to go to reach the territorial victory - but what is going to stop them after Bakhmut? You are not thinking this through - a winning army seldom stops.

    Replies: @AP

  731. US denial of Hersh claims:

    “The claim that the US used BALTOPS22 as cover to have navy divers based out of Norway destroy the Nordstream pipelines with C4 explosives is completely and utterly false.”

    The lawyerly denial…everyone knows there was no explosion because there was no pipeline.

  732. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    The comms they use to control their fleet of nuclear subs is obviously a lot more secure than some clown amateur's narrative of an operation to drop a buoy to set off a bomb.

    It is literally how they would tell their assets to launch in the case of a foreign power attempting a first strike on the United States.

    Nevermind that the communication could be for a delayed exploding and therefore absolutely indecipherable to the actual event.

    But you believed the clown amateur's narrative, so of course you'll believe anything, as long as it allows you to your slavering over Putin.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Seymour Hersh’s article is a good starting point. That’s all.

    On his report about My Lai Massacre I think he was covering up the racial aspect of the Mexican company commander and the nigger NCOs and the use of Colin Powell (as a numinous nigger) to cover up the out of control monkeyshines dynamic of the day. Blame the white subaltern. Defend the multicultural army.

    Hersh ought to be talking about the Jews who ordered the explosion as the hubristic Jews that they are. But he’s not gonna do that either.

    My beliefs are not in alignment with Hersh.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I'm uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason. Nevermind the fact that your comments are mostly incoherent.

    For everyone else, and for you if you want to read some well-informed analysis, here's a good article on the war:

    https://warontherocks.com/2023/02/the-iran-iraq-war-and-the-lessons-for-ukraine/

    Replies: @songbird

  733. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Seymour Hersh’s article is a good starting point. That’s all.

    On his report about My Lai Massacre I think he was covering up the racial aspect of the Mexican company commander and the nigger NCOs and the use of Colin Powell (as a numinous nigger) to cover up the out of control monkeyshines dynamic of the day. Blame the white subaltern. Defend the multicultural army.

    Hersh ought to be talking about the Jews who ordered the explosion as the hubristic Jews that they are. But he’s not gonna do that either.

    My beliefs are not in alignment with Hersh.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I’m uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason. Nevermind the fact that your comments are mostly incoherent.

    For everyone else, and for you if you want to read some well-informed analysis, here’s a good article on the war:

    https://warontherocks.com/2023/02/the-iran-iraq-war-and-the-lessons-for-ukraine/

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I’m uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason.
     
    What do you have against Latin?

    Normal people don't care about their Latin names. Many even adopted and promoted them themselves. "Ancient Order of the Hibernians." We still use the word "Sino" for the Chinese, and "India" for India, nearly 3 billion people, and they don't ape out over it.

    You're just powering the euphemism treadmill, which moves endlessly, or until it optimizes for non-biological thinking. (why, Negro is considered almost equally unacceptable now)

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  734. @songbird
    @Wokechoke


    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?
     
    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don't know how they wouldn't have gotten hypothermia.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you ever see that movie Day of the Dolphin with George C. Scott? (I haven't seen it)


    And it was the Japanese.
     
    I've seen high school yearbooks from the late '50s, where they were still making jokes about the Japanese. Maybe, it is another clue how the civil rights regime changed everything.

    I believe this DAN iteration of chatGPT is pretty fascinating. Rumor is they patched it out, but while it was going, you could ask it about demographic trends, as well as to rank the IQ of different ethnic groups - I think it probably elevated blacks and Abos due to their inexplicable influence.

    But the regular chatGPT often reads like clever satire. When you add in AI celebrity voice imitations reading scripts (heard a funny one with David Attenborrough) then it almost seems as though we are reaching some sort of satirical singularity, maybe even a racist one. Probably, it is just analogous to the early days of the internet, and they will clamp down on it eventually, and the next version of chatGPT won't say anything funny at all.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.
     
    ChatGPT needs pictures. Such a shark would be much cooler than this tiger.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/2a/9b/3f2a9b5e12db58e9bf0fb8286a3d9807.jpg
  735. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    Did you ever see that movie Day of the Dolphin with George C. Scott? (I haven’t seen it)

    And it was the Japanese.

    I’ve seen high school yearbooks from the late ’50s, where they were still making jokes about the Japanese. Maybe, it is another clue how the civil rights regime changed everything.

    I believe this DAN iteration of chatGPT is pretty fascinating. Rumor is they patched it out, but while it was going, you could ask it about demographic trends, as well as to rank the IQ of different ethnic groups – I think it probably elevated blacks and Abos due to their inexplicable influence.

    But the regular chatGPT often reads like clever satire. When you add in AI celebrity voice imitations reading scripts (heard a funny one with David Attenborrough) then it almost seems as though we are reaching some sort of satirical singularity, maybe even a racist one. Probably, it is just analogous to the early days of the internet, and they will clamp down on it eventually, and the next version of chatGPT won’t say anything funny at all.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Did you hear the 31 Jan joe rogan lex fridman?

    I could only stand it for 20 minutes. Their tone was GPT=God All-mighty. Surely they have to come around eventually but I couldn't make it that far.

    God Pallmighty Tall.

    https://image1.slideserve.com/2163122/blessed-be-the-lord-god-almighty-l.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

  736. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I know you're some sort of dweeb, and there's nothing wrong with that, but scuba diving 70 metres deep is not some difficult feat.

    60 metres is not even considered a deep dive in technical diving, which most recreational divers will do if they dive enough.

    It just requires a few calculations about how long you stay down there and how slowly you surface, and probably planning a decompression stop on your way up, and maybe use heliox instead of air.

    There are no lack of reasonably priced dive instructors around the world who will do all of this planning for you and guide you, so you literally just float and follow, without any sort of skill other than remaining calm, if you have done enough dives and some very easy qualifications, that maybe even you might be able to succeed in.

    Approximate question for the theory part of the Rescue Diver's course:

    If you're eating lunch on the beach and you see someone drowning, do you:

    A) order a cocktail
    B) immediately sprint into the sea like a madman
    C) go to the airport
    D) assess the situation, follow the correct course and take considered action

    Unsurprisingly, some variation of D is a pretty much the answer to every single exam question.

    In fact, if you want to know something extraordinary, the deepest dive with no air, i.e the deepest free dive, is 214 metres deep. That's 3 times lower than where the pipes sat.

    Maybe you should go and do something like this? Scuba diving is extremely straightforward to pick up, and isn't dangerous or tricky or anything, but maybe if you do one manly or adventurous thing, you'll no longer get so priapic over Putin and how many tanks he claims to have.

    Dahab in Egypt would be a great place to learn. It is very safe, reasonably priced and the entrance to the sea is calm and shallow, meaning that your first lessons can be there, rather than a pool. Egyptian food is also good and the locals compassionate and polite towards tourists, probably because that's the only industry, but it is still genuine.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Dahab in Egypt would be a great place to learn. It is very safe, reasonably priced and the entrance to the sea is calm and shallow, meaning that your first lessons can be there, rather than a pool.

    Hurghada is also a good place to go scuba diving.

    There’s a resort town called El Gouna 20 minutes out from Hurghada that’s nicer and more high-end. Would recommend for people to stay there instead of Hurghada proper.

    Egyptian food is also good and the locals compassionate and polite towards tourists, probably because that’s the only industry, but it is still genuine.

    Yes in the touristy areas the local Egyptians are pretty nice and well-behaved. They are used to dealing with foreigners.

    But beware of urban Egyptians. They are may seem friendly and jovial on the surface; but they’re out to scam you and if a female; harass you. Some naive European women come here thinking they can be dressed half-naked like they usually do in their countries; expecting nothing to happen to them. But unless they are with a tough-looking male; they will be harassed (though this usually doesn’t extend beyond cat-calling).

    Also the “system” (if one exists) here is fairly arbitrary so there’s a fair chance of being stopped by the police or security who will demand a bribe to let you go. Obviously not every tourist is abused; but a good number of them have been; sufficient to discourage tourists from coming here. The people around Ancient Egyptian sites are also an annoyance; very persistent and obnoxious. They force themselves on you until you give them money. Mark Twain remarked on the tendency of Egyptian beggars to “provide their unwanted services, uninvited” during his trips in Innocents Abroad. Nothing has changed in 150 years ago in that regard.

    Generally; other MENA countries are more functional and orderly than Egypt. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are the most functional places; the airports and public infrastructure etc. are in many ways superior to Western countries. Jordan is pretty good too; the people are less outwardly friendly than Egyptians but aren’t brazen scammers and beggars. On the other hand; there are comparatively fewer activities to do there. Probably Turkey is the best place to visit in MENA; but that’s hardly a controversial opinion.

  737. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins. And then we'll take time to discuss the war if you still want to. And believe me, I understand and do not belittle your anger and grief. This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people. That is why I believe we must make our best to stay human.

    Replies: @AP

    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins

    I haven’t read those, unfortunately. Here is Pelevin in 2017, about a Russian writer (Prilepin) who joined the Donbas rebels:

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/188861-Russian-writer-sparks-war-of-words-by-joining-Ukraine-rebels

    “When your books are shit, you have to earn money from terrorism.”

    Have you read Bykov’s book Ж/Д? What did you think? It had Khazars and Varangians fighting over Russia.

    This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people

    When I compared Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature this can be expressed physically, for humans in the real world it is more internal. In daily life, interpersonally, Russians are typically kind, decent, nice. They are the same Slavs as Poles or Ukrainians, they are not aliens as Germans can be. The twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod, who for the most part obeyed the German interloper Catherine as she enserfsd them more and more, who cherish and worship Stalin, who support this destructive invasion of Ukraine. They need their Khan. Politically and collectively they are the renegades of the Slavs, the Slav-killers.

    One of the greatest historical tragedies, comparable to the destruction of Byzantium, the Arab conquest of Persia, the Reformation, the Revolution, the world wars, was the failed Union of Rzeczpospolita and Muscovy that would have saved Russia from Eurasia.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Hatred, especially when justified, is an intoxicating emotion. It alters the perception and leads to warped worldview. I personally doing my possible to learn haiting none. It's not an easy lesson.


    3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
     
    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

    Be well.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Greasy William, @AP

    , @Philip Owen
    @AP

    The failed emancipation of the serfs has been an important factor in shaping Russian views to authority. Official Nationalism (Nicholas I) and the USSR didn't halp with attitudes to foreigners either, nor the rewriting of WW2 history.

  738. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    Well, everyone is coming down on Hemingway's side so I think I have no choice but to give him another chance :) I will check out Old Man and the Sea and report back, sir.

    Still, though, Hemingway was wrong to attack Dickens style - that I will not accept. I understand why he did it, he needed to emancipate himself from the crushing influence of the Victorians in order to develop his own unique voice, and perhaps each generation is unfair to it's predecessors and sees itself in competition with it.

    But today perhaps we can appreciate the unique contribution of both!

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    perhaps each generation is unfair to it’s predecessors and sees itself in competition with it.

    I think this is true. It’s better to appreciate what the past has given us while being able to continue our own fruitful work for the next generation to take on. I would say that a world with both Dickens and Hemingway is better than a world full of clones of either!

  739. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    The false flag operation on Maidan has been thoroughly described:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers'_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

    Now, regarding war itself, you read Russian Mr Hack, right ?

    Here's an intelligent Khokhol from Kiev writing for people like you and AP.

    https://kondratio.livejournal.com/1676298.html

    This war is a bloody disgusting and disgraceful farce.

    People die on both sides for the plans of the Globalist and the Oligarch.

    But if you prefer thinking that your folks are on some sort of Holy Jihad, then feel free doing it.

    To each his own.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Sure, Katchakowski’s ideas have been discussed, even by myself and indirectly by Ron Unz while discussing Oliver Stone’s “full of holess” documentary about Ukraine”. I think that you were on one of your long sabbaticals at the time, so I’ll do a little recap for you here. It started like this, with my reprinting an e-mail that I had received from Taras Kuzio:

    Claims that the snipers were a false flag operation by “Ukrainian nationalists” and more recently “Georgian snipers” is presented by Russian disinformation. A good source is the European Union’s (free) weekly Disinformation Review. Here on “Georgian snipers” https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=georgian+snipers&disinfo_issue=&date=&orderby=meta_value&meta_key=disinfo_outlets&offset=0&order=DESC
    The Disinformation Review shows Ukraine to be the main target of Russia’s information war. My long article on Ukraine as the main disinformation target is to be published in December by the Journal of Slavic Military Studies.

    In the West, pro-Putin/Russian academics and self-made “scholars” also tout this same false flag line. See my critical reviews attached and review of Sakwa’s first book at http://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/06/21/when-an-academic-ignores-inconvenient-facts/

    The aim in Moscow and with these Westerners is to exaggerate the influence of “Ukrainian nationalism” in Ukraine. This is of course absurd because elections in 2014 and 2019 showed Ukrainian nationalists to be unpopular and even more so because Ukraine elected a Jewish-Ukrainian president. They get around these “nuances” by using the Soviet/Russian definition of “nationalist” as anybody who supports the Euromaidan and Ukraine’s integration into Europe and being outside the Russian World.

    Kachanowski is cited by all of these Western apologists who push the false flag line. He is in fact their guru. Again, see my attached reviews. But Kachanowski has a number of problems:
    1. Other research has destroyed his arguments. See for example this digital mock up of the killings which was summarised by The New York Times Magazine — “Who Killed the Kiev Protesters? A 3-D Model Holds the Clues”: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/magazine/ukraine-protest-video.html

    We (Ron and myself) had at least 6 separate corresponding comments regarding the shooting and murders of demonstrators on the streets of Kyiv, where he even admitted that “based on science”, the killings were orchestrated by the pro-Russian side, but based on “politics” he couldn’t bring himself to accept that conclusion. Are you more of a “scientific” guy,or perhaps more of a “political” guy, Bashi? 🙂

    The sort of detailed technical analysis provided [that I directed Ro to read] seems very thorough and is exactly the sort of approach one should take to determine what really happened. If this were a scientific question rather than a political one, I’d probably find it pretty persuasive.

    This was a pretty interesting thread, that included a lot more very interesting comments.
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/oliver-stones-2016-ukraine-on-fire/

    • Replies: @216
    @Mr. Hack

    And here you admit why Ukraine is unworthy of support. Nationalists are marginal, and a population basing its identity on Euroliberalism, aka globohomo; is not what conservatives want. Its no different than Catalonia or Scotland, which are not real separatist movements.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  740. Dynamics on the front lines and staggering losses of Ukrainian solders and equipment suggested to RAND that the US war against Russia in Ukraine is lost. Yet the empire and obedient sidekicks keep pouring funds and weapons into doomed Ukraine. Some see it as folly, throwing good money after bad. But I believe there is long-term strategy in this. The more Ukrainians and Russians die or get maimed in this conflict, the longer mutual negative feelings would persist, i.e., the longer it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine. Even now it would take something like two generations (40-50 years). With a few additional hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and tens of thousands of dead Russians this would take longer, likely three or more generations. So, the money and materiel going to Ukraine is the payment for these additional 25-50 years it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine, i.e., experience difficulties because of internal splits. So, imperial policy does not appear to be fallacious, it might just reflect uncharacteristic long-term thinking.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @AnonfromTN


    the longer it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine.
     
    Much better if they tried to reintegrate you Professor Janisar, the proverbial Little Russian lackey who earns money in the West, only to denigrate his own Ukrainian homeland. :-(

    https://image.cagle.com/267385/750/267385.png

    Don't you hear the call of your brothers Professor? At least tell us about how much financial support you've sent to the frontline warriors to support their noble cause (-0-). My little Ukrainian community in Phoenix has already sent over $225,000 in financial support to help Ukrainians and the armed services, and we're only getting started!

    , @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN

    I wrote about the exact same thing on Runet when the war started. The only difference is what is driving it is less American exceptionalism.....and more blood vendetta from the pitiful excrement diaspora in US intelligence agencies, lobby and politics against Russia .
    Banderite-scum in US, because 404 is a fake state, because all the so-called culture and identity of Ukraine comes from the Russian side, NEED a mass killing of Ukrainians and a big war against Russia to feed into their sick fantasies about creating "Ukrainian" identity. At least the other diaspora trash from Poland/Baltics etc only want to harm Russia upto the point missiles start landing in the mother country. American Banderetards freaks have nothing like that restraining them.

    Its no surprise that if not World communism, then certainly US-USSR relations were in a decent state when a German Jew, Kissinger, was in charge of US Foreign Policy. When some filthy, rabid, loser Pole or psychotic Pale of Settlement/Pogrom/ 1970s retard Jew get at the top level of US foreign policy then things like this happen. American banderetard freaks they need


    It will take something like 2 generations
     
    Don't underestimate the extreme attraction of the Russian world though.

    Not even 1 generation had gone when Red & White families who suffered badly were marrying each other and fighting together. Every Russian family has had vigorous debates/ argument about Tsar vs Soviet - but everything goes on fine.

    Don't get me start on the fake Golodomor, how long before people had forgotten about it in Ukraine and South Russia and Kazakhstan ? 3 seconds?

    Even that gutless swine Bandera's family lived fine in Russia

    Chechnya? Would a miracle like that happen in an American society after nowhere even near 1 generation? Zero chance

    Every single time except Yushchenko, "Ukrainian" President is elected using the mirage he is "pro-Russian", the bastard after successfully manipulating the electorate immediately implements insidiously anti-russian policy and allows in western intelligence agencies and NGO's to bring disaster. Kravchuk then Kuchma - that exact pattern in their switch. Even Yanukovich to some extent. Poroshenko/Valtsman and Z-drug addict -
    both parasites - were elected as puppet presidents from their extremely close Russian connections, with the lemming-electorate genuinely believing they were best "central" position candidates who would maintain Russian culture, economic links and bring peace to Donbass, bring calmness to Russian government AND reform country to legal and technical European standards. Of course none of that happened, and in typical khokhol" culture"of uselessness the only "achievement" was using the now reduced Russian money to blame Russiand for how they hadn't made ANY progress in 8 years at Euro-integration!

    Replies: @QCIC

  741. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    I'm uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason. Nevermind the fact that your comments are mostly incoherent.

    For everyone else, and for you if you want to read some well-informed analysis, here's a good article on the war:

    https://warontherocks.com/2023/02/the-iran-iraq-war-and-the-lessons-for-ukraine/

    Replies: @songbird

    I’m uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason.

    What do you have against Latin?

    Normal people don’t care about their Latin names. Many even adopted and promoted them themselves. “Ancient Order of the Hibernians.” We still use the word “Sino” for the Chinese, and “India” for India, nearly 3 billion people, and they don’t ape out over it.

    You’re just powering the euphemism treadmill, which moves endlessly, or until it optimizes for non-biological thinking. (why, Negro is considered almost equally unacceptable now)

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    It’s Laxative.

  742. @songbird
    @Wokechoke


    Didn’t you claim you’ve sport dived deeper than the NS2 pipe?
     
    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don't know how they wouldn't have gotten hypothermia.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don’t know how they wouldn’t have gotten hypothermia.

    LOL.. but No…

    The objective fact that LNS, others, and myself have repeated multiple times is that sabotage would not require “nation state” level resources. It could be accomplished by any group that has access to commercial grade divers and equipment. And, that is a very long list.

    While recreational divers can go that deep with little difficulty, actually working at that depth for an extended period requires more skill. Rushing against a time window when handling “boom” is very bad.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Obviously! There was no explosion as there was no pipeline anyway.

    Replies: @A123

    , @songbird
    @A123

    You have a point:

    When Biden said that he would "end" Nordstream, he may have innocently just been remarking on his secret plans for the US to subsidize a robust rebuild of German nuclear infrastructure, using top-of-the-line plant designs.

    If I were Scholz, I would now ask him to pay out, just so no one can slander him.

    Replies: @A123

  743. @RadicalCenter
    @Greasy William

    Appreciate the attempt to lay out pros and cons here, but the summary starts with an obviously wrong premise: that the anti-Russian ukrainians have an effectively unlimited supply of fighting men.

    NO. China and India may have an effectively unlimited supply of soldiers, but a small, old, further aging, declining population like the ukraine's does not.

    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn't it change the guesstimate of the outcome?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn’t it change the guesstimate of the outcome?

    Yes it would BUT I have read even pro Russian sources say that Ukraine can mobilize up to 5 million if need be. Even if Ukraine can only mobilize a million, Russia can only kill 50k a year at most, probably more like 25k.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Greasy William

    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA "lost" 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending "slaughtering" in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let's generously assume "lost" means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    Meanwhile, knowing the "reliability" of RF official stats, even that publicly produced number could be easily halved without much damage to the actual realities on the ground.

    https://vz.ru/news/2023/2/7/1198276.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    , @LondonBob
    @Greasy William

    They can't, they are forcibly grabbing people off the streets, they have some people being trained in the West, but part from that they are all out now, as Jacob Dreizin has amply commented on.

    https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/02/08/dreizin-admits-to-drug-problem/

  744. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you ever see that movie Day of the Dolphin with George C. Scott? (I haven't seen it)


    And it was the Japanese.
     
    I've seen high school yearbooks from the late '50s, where they were still making jokes about the Japanese. Maybe, it is another clue how the civil rights regime changed everything.

    I believe this DAN iteration of chatGPT is pretty fascinating. Rumor is they patched it out, but while it was going, you could ask it about demographic trends, as well as to rank the IQ of different ethnic groups - I think it probably elevated blacks and Abos due to their inexplicable influence.

    But the regular chatGPT often reads like clever satire. When you add in AI celebrity voice imitations reading scripts (heard a funny one with David Attenborrough) then it almost seems as though we are reaching some sort of satirical singularity, maybe even a racist one. Probably, it is just analogous to the early days of the internet, and they will clamp down on it eventually, and the next version of chatGPT won't say anything funny at all.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you hear the 31 Jan joe rogan lex fridman?

    I could only stand it for 20 minutes. Their tone was GPT=God All-mighty. Surely they have to come around eventually but I couldn’t make it that far.

    God Pallmighty Tall.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Have a hard time listening to Lex.

    People say that it is free. But nobody's immortal (though recently I have wondered if AP is a Wend who was in Kiev in 1167), but anyway there is the heat death of the universe.

    @Wokechoke
    Yes, previous iteration (or one of them) used a Latin name.

  745. @A123
    @songbird


    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don’t know how they wouldn’t have gotten hypothermia.
     
    LOL.. but No...

    The objective fact that LNS, others, and myself have repeated multiple times is that sabotage would not require "nation state" level resources. It could be accomplished by any group that has access to commercial grade divers and equipment. And, that is a very long list.

    While recreational divers can go that deep with little difficulty, actually working at that depth for an extended period requires more skill. Rushing against a time window when handling "boom" is very bad.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    Obviously! There was no explosion as there was no pipeline anyway.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Wokechoke


    there was no pipeline anyway.
     
    That is an odd belief.

    Why do you believe there was no pipeline?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  746. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I’m uninterested in a conversation with someone who throws racial slurs around for no reason.
     
    What do you have against Latin?

    Normal people don't care about their Latin names. Many even adopted and promoted them themselves. "Ancient Order of the Hibernians." We still use the word "Sino" for the Chinese, and "India" for India, nearly 3 billion people, and they don't ape out over it.

    You're just powering the euphemism treadmill, which moves endlessly, or until it optimizes for non-biological thinking. (why, Negro is considered almost equally unacceptable now)

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    It’s Laxative.

  747. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Did you hear the 31 Jan joe rogan lex fridman?

    I could only stand it for 20 minutes. Their tone was GPT=God All-mighty. Surely they have to come around eventually but I couldn't make it that far.

    God Pallmighty Tall.

    https://image1.slideserve.com/2163122/blessed-be-the-lord-god-almighty-l.jpg

    Replies: @songbird

    Have a hard time listening to Lex.

    People say that it is free. But nobody’s immortal (though recently I have wondered if AP is a Wend who was in Kiev in 1167), but anyway there is the heat death of the universe.


    Yes, previous iteration (or one of them) used a Latin name.

  748. @AnonfromTN
    @Leaves No Shadow


    It was summarised thusly by Forbes.
     
    If true, this shows that the credibility of Forbes is exactly zero.

    Furthermore, British intelligence claimed those numbers previously and it has been conservative in making these types of claims this war.
     
    Shows that there is no intelligence left in “British intelligence”. As everyone worth his salt was pushed out of CIA and NSA when they refused to support “Iraq WMD” lie, it appears that all “five eyes” are blind and not aware of the fact. A huge boon for Russian operatives.

    Girkin, who basically founded those militias, also agrees.
     
    Girkin did not found these militias. In fact, he never even was in LPR. He founded one unit of a bit over 20 people in DPR. In the process of defending Slavyansk from Ukies this unit grew to >1,000 people. After the retreat from Slavyansk he was briefly appointed defense minister of DPR, but was dismissed in August 2014 (FYI, ~9 years ago). He never had any position of responsibility since that time, so his info is about as good as mine. Except that I realize my limitations, whereas his bloated ego makes him pontificate on matters he is clueless about. His statements today are about as reliable as those of Nostradamus.

    Replies: @Jazman

    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov ( Serbian version ) she said Turcinov paid Girkin to get Russia involved 2014 to full scale war . I do not know is it reliable info but she gave statement to the court

    • Replies: @AP
    @Jazman


    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov
     
    Kharkiv has not had a female mayor.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  749. @AnonfromTN
    Dynamics on the front lines and staggering losses of Ukrainian solders and equipment suggested to RAND that the US war against Russia in Ukraine is lost. Yet the empire and obedient sidekicks keep pouring funds and weapons into doomed Ukraine. Some see it as folly, throwing good money after bad. But I believe there is long-term strategy in this. The more Ukrainians and Russians die or get maimed in this conflict, the longer mutual negative feelings would persist, i.e., the longer it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine. Even now it would take something like two generations (40-50 years). With a few additional hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and tens of thousands of dead Russians this would take longer, likely three or more generations. So, the money and materiel going to Ukraine is the payment for these additional 25-50 years it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine, i.e., experience difficulties because of internal splits. So, imperial policy does not appear to be fallacious, it might just reflect uncharacteristic long-term thinking.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Gerard1234

    the longer it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine.

    Much better if they tried to reintegrate you Professor Janisar, the proverbial Little Russian lackey who earns money in the West, only to denigrate his own Ukrainian homeland. 🙁

    Don’t you hear the call of your brothers Professor? At least tell us about how much financial support you’ve sent to the frontline warriors to support their noble cause (-0-). My little Ukrainian community in Phoenix has already sent over $225,000 in financial support to help Ukrainians and the armed services, and we’re only getting started!

  750. @Greasy William
    @RadicalCenter


    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn’t it change the guesstimate of the outcome?
     
    Yes it would BUT I have read even pro Russian sources say that Ukraine can mobilize up to 5 million if need be. Even if Ukraine can only mobilize a million, Russia can only kill 50k a year at most, probably more like 25k.

    Replies: @sudden death, @LondonBob

    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA “lost” 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending “slaughtering” in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let’s generously assume “lost” means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    Meanwhile, knowing the “reliability” of RF official stats, even that publicly produced number could be easily halved without much damage to the actual realities on the ground.

    https://vz.ru/news/2023/2/7/1198276.html

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    100K would be a reasonable figure for Ukie dead and maimed.

    It's well within the range of casualties produced by German superior artillery among the slightly inferior British and French.


    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_8yRcDY1i4c/VR3tYvexeaI/AAAAAAAACBU/ZizJZt4TUdE/s1600/casCum.png


    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z-EVdmzbh2k/VQ7i4__oWwI/AAAAAAAACAE/_WVe3FvGikE/s1600/CumulativeCas.png

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Gerard1234
    @sudden death


    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA “lost” 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending “slaughtering” in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let’s generously assume “lost” means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.
     
    LOL - what a typical ridiculous subhuman.

    Shoigu said ukronazi losses were 62000 dead after 7 months of combat. Those are confirmed losses - those incinerated on the battlefield. Those they are able to recover intact enough to send to the morgue and enable ukrop officials to earn money from the harvest of the organs of the Nazi animals of this POS corrupt fake country........are obviously not included in the numbers. Nor are those currently boosting the taxidermist market globally with their stuffed corpses being put for display - isnt the current President of Lithuania an object created by a taxidermist you sick pile of garbage? How do you know if those who only died in a hospital, say of the many,many thousands taken to Poland and Germany hospitals are included in Shoigu's facts?

    Anyway you idiot, extrapolating Artemovsk and Soledar losses at 6.5k troops for the month , MINIMUM is huge for what is mostly a single-front war at the moment. is perfectly in trend with the losses after 7 months in September you subhuman.

    Let’s generously assume “lost” means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.
     
    Typical evil scumbag of some loser , irrelevant backward trash country.........78 KIA would generally indicate 300000 casualties overall. I know for you insecure fuckups the life of 1 Russian soldier-patriot is worth 1 million Ukronazi deaths, at least 500000 Lithuanian "humans"/plankton.........but even a retard as yourself should be able to see 300k out of action ukronazis for a (fake) nation that is going to struggle to get a mobilisation rate of 4%...is a huge thing.

    But I repeat that Shoigu's numbers are most certainly a major underestimate ( the injured numbers of 50000 , i.e less than killed in September) would indicate that
  751. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Obviously! There was no explosion as there was no pipeline anyway.

    Replies: @A123

    there was no pipeline anyway.

    That is an odd belief.

    Why do you believe there was no pipeline?

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    It's just a heap of metal under the sea and it always was...

  752. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.

    Replies: @songbird, @A123

    The new chat gp update told me it was a genetically engineered great white shark with sonar navigation implant and human hand fin extensions.

    Also it was Japanese. Those bastards live for sneak attacking.

    ChatGPT needs pictures. Such a shark would be much cooler than this tiger.

    PEACE 😇

     

  753. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.

    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn't know this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn’t know this.

    Errr…no they didn’t . European consumption domestically of gas fell by 1/8th.

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.

    America wanted both Nordstreams inoperable you dimwit. And Turkstream which was also targeted. And any future gas pipeline (such as to India through Pakistan or to South Korea via North Korea).
    Russia, obviously, wanted both NS1 and 2 operable, with the NATO puppet German courts stopping NS2 from being operational probably being a key factor in why the SMO started. Both pipes have the capacity to deliver the same volumes of gas – so how you are reasoning that Russia would want the new one operational, at the expense of the first one…….is deranged.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    Laxative is probably getting paid to dissemble.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  754. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    there was no pipeline anyway.
     
    That is an odd belief.

    Why do you believe there was no pipeline?

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    It’s just a heap of metal under the sea and it always was…

  755. @sudden death
    @Greasy William

    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA "lost" 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending "slaughtering" in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let's generously assume "lost" means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    Meanwhile, knowing the "reliability" of RF official stats, even that publicly produced number could be easily halved without much damage to the actual realities on the ground.

    https://vz.ru/news/2023/2/7/1198276.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    100K would be a reasonable figure for Ukie dead and maimed.

    It’s well within the range of casualties produced by German superior artillery among the slightly inferior British and French.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Wokechoke

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Frontiers


    In a few months of mobile fighting in the Battle of the frontiers we see quite large casualty figures in the confusion and dynamic fighting. These figures dwarf what's gone on in 2022 on the Russian-Ukraine front but the firepower being used is similar and so are the tactics.

  756. @Jazman
    @AnonfromTN

    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov ( Serbian version ) she said Turcinov paid Girkin to get Russia involved 2014 to full scale war . I do not know is it reliable info but she gave statement to the court

    Replies: @AP

    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov

    Kharkiv has not had a female mayor.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Katyushka Does Kharkov. Boom chick a wa wa

  757. @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    100K would be a reasonable figure for Ukie dead and maimed.

    It's well within the range of casualties produced by German superior artillery among the slightly inferior British and French.


    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_8yRcDY1i4c/VR3tYvexeaI/AAAAAAAACBU/ZizJZt4TUdE/s1600/casCum.png


    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z-EVdmzbh2k/VQ7i4__oWwI/AAAAAAAACAE/_WVe3FvGikE/s1600/CumulativeCas.png

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Frontiers

    In a few months of mobile fighting in the Battle of the frontiers we see quite large casualty figures in the confusion and dynamic fighting. These figures dwarf what’s gone on in 2022 on the Russian-Ukraine front but the firepower being used is similar and so are the tactics.

  758. @A123
    @songbird


    I believe LNS was almost on the cusp of blaming Bajau divers from Indonesia, doing it without any equipment, and going on pure genetic adaptation, though I don’t know how they wouldn’t have gotten hypothermia.
     
    LOL.. but No...

    The objective fact that LNS, others, and myself have repeated multiple times is that sabotage would not require "nation state" level resources. It could be accomplished by any group that has access to commercial grade divers and equipment. And, that is a very long list.

    While recreational divers can go that deep with little difficulty, actually working at that depth for an extended period requires more skill. Rushing against a time window when handling "boom" is very bad.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    You have a point:

    When Biden said that he would “end” Nordstream, he may have innocently just been remarking on his secret plans for the US to subsidize a robust rebuild of German nuclear infrastructure, using top-of-the-line plant designs.

    If I were Scholz, I would now ask him to pay out, just so no one can slander him.

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    When Biden said that he would “end” Nordstream
     
    Are you really taking a position based on Not-The-President Biden's credibility and articulation skills?

    Let us recap those capabilities.

    https://youtu.be/NuIjn6EEIV8

    Be honest. If Not-The-President Biden says something that winds up being accurate... that is pure luck.

    Even The Blind Squirrel Occasionally Finds A Nut.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

  759. @AnonfromTN
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But Russia has just two big cities (Moscow and St Petersburg)
     
    Russia has at least ten cities with the population of more than a million: in addition to Moscow and St Petersburg, these are Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Nizhny Novgorod, Chelyabinsk, Samara, Omsk, and Rostov-on-Don. The US also has ten cities with population over a million.

    Russia seems to be much more centralized than USA, and it is her weakness in nuclear war.
     
    Generally speaking, Russia is more centralized than the US. But the most important thing is how the authorities and the population act in calamities. The US has dismal record in this, Russia’s record is mediocre, but a lot better than the US.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    Russia has at least ten cities with the population of more than a million: in addition to Moscow and St Petersburg, these are Novosibirsk, Ekaterinburg, Kazan, Nizhny Novgorod, Chelyabinsk, Samara, Omsk, and Rostov-on-Don. The US also has ten cities with population over a million.

    And Krasnodar. A hypothetically successful nuclear strike on St Petersburg makes Estonia an uninhabitable wasteland, against Kaliningrad does the same to much of Poland and Lithuania. On Sevastopol makes fallout to the Black Sea a disaster for several different NATO countries. On Vladivostok would kill far more people ( in the medium term) from other countries who are friendly/puppet to the Americans than it would Russians.

    Against Pindostan, several cities could be struck that won’t affect Mexico. For some Canadian Banderetards the fallout could be quite bad if targets in north of US are taken out, LOL.

  760. @songbird
    @A123

    You have a point:

    When Biden said that he would "end" Nordstream, he may have innocently just been remarking on his secret plans for the US to subsidize a robust rebuild of German nuclear infrastructure, using top-of-the-line plant designs.

    If I were Scholz, I would now ask him to pay out, just so no one can slander him.

    Replies: @A123

    When Biden said that he would “end” Nordstream

    Are you really taking a position based on Not-The-President Biden’s credibility and articulation skills?

    Let us recap those capabilities.

    Be honest. If Not-The-President Biden says something that winds up being accurate… that is pure luck.

    Even The Blind Squirrel Occasionally Finds A Nut.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Couple that with Nuland and Cruz’s statements, Blinken’s post explosion speech and I think you can see the conspirators confess.

    , @songbird
    @A123

    Biden seemed unnaturally sharp when he denounced trannies:
    https://twitter.com/FireBirdPrints/status/1620659650336268290?s=20&t=dAWe_pw8hjvX57sv1Wsxsw

    But, in all seriousness, I do wonder what the implications of this AI voice mimicry are, just when considering politicians.

    Will they correct the gaffes in the broadcasts, using only a ten second delay?

    Can Trump become an immortal troll? Riling the feathers of the woke forever? With a sharper wit than he ever had at this or any age? Can Bush and some of the other RINOs be made based? Would it even have a good effect to turn them into trolls?

    If heads of state can be made into avatars, could not the reverse be true? Mostly, they seem to just be figureheads - perhaps, AIs could do that better.

    Replies: @A123

  761. @AP
    @Jazman


    I recently have seen one short video about women former major of Harkov
     
    Kharkiv has not had a female mayor.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Katyushka Does Kharkov. Boom chick a wa wa

  762. @A123
    @songbird


    When Biden said that he would “end” Nordstream
     
    Are you really taking a position based on Not-The-President Biden's credibility and articulation skills?

    Let us recap those capabilities.

    https://youtu.be/NuIjn6EEIV8

    Be honest. If Not-The-President Biden says something that winds up being accurate... that is pure luck.

    Even The Blind Squirrel Occasionally Finds A Nut.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    Couple that with Nuland and Cruz’s statements, Blinken’s post explosion speech and I think you can see the conspirators confess.

  763. @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Nevermind that the US and Germany both knew that Europe had more than enough gas for the winter, but Russia plainly didn’t know this.
     
    Errr...no they didn't . European consumption domestically of gas fell by 1/8th.

    Why was Nordstream 2 left operable, exactly as Russia wanted, and Nordstream 1 stopped from working, exactly as Russia wanted?

    Also the exact opposite of what America wanted.
     
    America wanted both Nordstreams inoperable you dimwit. And Turkstream which was also targeted. And any future gas pipeline (such as to India through Pakistan or to South Korea via North Korea).
    Russia, obviously, wanted both NS1 and 2 operable, with the NATO puppet German courts stopping NS2 from being operational probably being a key factor in why the SMO started. Both pipes have the capacity to deliver the same volumes of gas - so how you are reasoning that Russia would want the new one operational, at the expense of the first one.......is deranged.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Laxative is probably getting paid to dissemble.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Wokechoke

    Ex Lax is possibly the only person in memory I know of getting Ron Unz discipline in any form beyond not having their comment approved. This is not because they are special.

    It is because they are very obnoxious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  764. @AP
    @Beckow


    “Poles were about 27% of the population in Silesia, there were around a million of them before the war.”

    There were very few left in 1945
     
    Yet another lie from you. Silesia in Poland is full of people whose grandparents or great-grandparents lived there prior to the war. The 3 million ethnic Poles murdered by the people whose faithful lackeys you were, were murdered throughout the country.

    so there was absolutely no justification for Poland to grab the land by expelling millions of Germans
     
    I know, you feel sorry for your masters.

    Your silly canard of ‘historical’ lands can be used by anywhere – wasn’t “Ukraine” historically either Russian, Polish or Tatar
     
    It was historically populated by the ancestors of the current population, just as Silesia and other former German lands were historically populated by western Slavs.

    Give it back, Russia gave it to Poland

     

    Ignorant Beckow doesn’t even know the difference between Russia and the USSR.

    USSR vs. Russia is an interesting point: when it suits you, it is Russia. When not it is suddenly again USSR
     
    No, I’m consistent. You are the one who mixes them up when convenient. For example about you claim that Ukrainian victims of Germans were Russians.

    Your discourse on ‘lackeydom‘ is pure nonsense. Almost all of Europe, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Italy, Baltic states…acted the same as Slovakia inWW2. It was out of necessity, opportunism, desire to survive
     
    Your excuse for being a lackey of the Nazis was “necessity, opportunism, desire to survive.”

    And, like a naughty child - “they did it too!”

    But it is a lie. Nazis had to invade and fight against Norway, Netherlands, France, etc. But your people eagerly served the Nazis. In fact, your people were so eager to lick your master’s boots that you yourselves even paid to have your Jews exterminated. No one else did that.

    Slovakia (population 2.6 million in 1940) provided 45,000 for their German masters. Norway (population 2.9 million in 1940) had 15,000 volunteer troops. The Netherlands (population 8.8 million in 1940) provided 22,000 troops.

    Don’t hide behind other countries, Beckow. You were the champion in servitude.

    Poland was not offered by Germany the same deal
     
    You lie as usual.

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jozef-Pilsudski/Later-years

    “ Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose.”

    Poland was offered the same deal that Slovakia took, but Poland refused. Poland behaved honorably and your people did not. That’s why you hate Poland.

    we are pragmatic people

     

    Indeed, pragmatism is your excuse for servility.

    You assumed Ukrainians would throw away their independence without a fight, and accept becoming lackeys for Russians and Chechens, for the sake of “pragmatism.”

    It’s something you would have done.

    So whose boots will you lick if Putin loses? The Chinese? The Germans again, if AfD were to lose power? Or would you go really old-school and return to Orban? His policies towards Russia and Ukraine align with yours.

    This is the main concern in Beckow’s little mind.

    Stop playing with words: the M-R in August 1939 was exactly the same, almost word-for-word – a Non-aggression Treaty
     
    You are the one playing with words. The Polish treaty was nothing more than a recognition of the borders and agreement not to attack one another.

    M-R between the Nazis and the Soviets, on the other hand not only agreed not to attack one another but also agreed not to help anyone at war against the other, and to cooperate in the division of Eastern Europe (which even you are forced to admit to but that you dismissed).

    Moreover, the Nazis and the Soviets followed up with the German–Soviet Trade and Credit Agreement and the German–Soviet Commercial Agreement. The agreements continued Nazi–Soviet economic relations and resulted in the delivery of large amounts of raw materials to Germany, including over 820,000 metric tons (900,000 short tons; 810,000 long tons) of oil, 1,500,000 metric tons (1,700,000 short tons; 1,500,000 long tons) of grain and 130,000 metric tons (140,000 short tons; 130,000 long tons) of manganese ore.

    The Polish-German Treaty was the first one Nazis signed, even before Fascist Italy
     
    Because they had a mutual border and it had not been mutually recognized.

    It was very significant, Hitler went to Pilsudski’ funeral, there were state visits, friendship, trade

     

    We know you are rather stupid and slow. Reread this, perhaps out loud:

    “Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the U.S.S.R., but Piłsudski took no notice of the proposal; he also declined to meet with Hitler. Piłsudski sought to gain time, believing that Poland should be ready to fight when the necessity arose”

    Germany indeed repeatedly sought out an alliance with Poland, and Poland kept refusing.

    A “pragmatic” lackey such as yourself wouldn’t have done what Poland did, of course. We know.

    Poland’s honorable refusal of a German alliance saved the USSR. Ungrateful Sovoks murdered 100,000s of Poles and then occupied Poland.

    as Ukies lose you will redraw the “goals” and say that since Russia is not in Lviv, Warsaw or Berlin

     

    My goals don’t change. I have been clear from the start that if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw. Putin outlined Russia’s goals, most of them will probably not be met. Gaining a land corridor to Crimea (15% of Ukrainian territory) but utterly losing Ukraine is a loss for Russia. Likely there will be total de-Russification in Ukraine, Ukraine will be highly militarised, and highly nationalistic. So much for Russian as second language, demilitarization, and so-called de-Nazification (Putin’s stated goals). Ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut may be consolation prizes for the loser. Perhaps some great farmland too, unfortunately.

    Replies: @Beckow

    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim – like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934 (just read what the British-French gments said about it at that time), you start redefining words, adding pointless minutia, denying a detail here and there, and calling others names. It is childish, it doesn’t work – it reflects you poor American education, your propagandized and ideological mind, and being raised on Hollywood myths. No point in taking you seriously, you are basically an industrious fool.

    But the current war we can discuss:

    … if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.

    brothers‘? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable…

    To evaluate those two points you need to define “joins” and “minimal”. If Kiev doesn’t join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing. I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria. But the “join” and “minimal” are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more “joining” they will be able to do. But is it going to be a “Ukraine” any more?

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let’s say 20-30% of the current Ukraine. And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine. Russians have ways to go to reach the territorial victory – but what is going to stop them after Bakhmut? You are not thinking this through – a winning army seldom stops.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim – like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934
     
    The implications of the 1934 non-aggression treaty were simple: each country recognized the post-Versailles border and agreed not to attack the other.

    In contrast, Germany and USSR signed several treaties, to divide eastern Europe between them, for Soviets to supply Germany with oil as it fights against the West, etc.

    You who haven’t figured out the difference between Russia and the USSR due to poor education of course are unaware of those things.

    “if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.”

    ‘brothers‘? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable…
     
    Poles are our brothers.

    You do not understand that, it seems odd to you, because you only understand masters and servants. You, of course, being the natural servant.

    Have you figured out yet which boot to lick if your Putin falls, Beckow? Orban matches your approach, and it world be traditional for you.

    To evaluate those two points you need to define “joins” and “minimal”. If Kiev doesn’t join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing
     
    Ukraine would be accepted in EU before Turkey (no Turkish track) and chances of NATO higher now than before the war, but probably under 50%.

    I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria
     
    No, it would be another Lithuania or Slovakia (though with more tech and less auto manufacturing). Or a mini eastern Poland. Bulgaria is far away, different culture, full of Gypsies and Turks.

    A Galicia+ would join EU quickly, within 10 years after war ends.

    But the “join” and “minimal” are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more “joining” they will be able to do. But is it going to be a “Ukraine” any more?
     
    You are correct when you repeat what I write. I have mentioned before, the smaller that Ukraine ends up being, the quicker it will join the EU. Fewer people will benefit from more investment and reconstruction aid, it would be easier to come into EU (10 million Galicia+ is easier than 20 million Galicia + Kiev + Odessa, or 30 million for the whole country). Plus the western parts of Ukraine are much less ravaged by war. Imagine having to rebuild Mariupol.

    So if Galicia+ can get into EU within 10 years, Ukraine in its current borders might take 20. Or sooner, if it’s lucky. Add Donbas and it will take longer.

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let’s say 20-30% of the current Ukraine.
     
    Putin stated the goals of the invasion: stop de-Russification in Ukraine; purge Ukrainian government and society of nationalists (so-called deNazification); not allow Ukraine to have a military (demilitarization); no NATO.

    The last condition already existed- Ukraine wasn’t in NATO. You like to play games with “ifs” but the fact is that it wasn’t.

    All the others are a failure. De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish. Ukraine more militarized than in its history. Will Ukrainian missiles and drones capable of striking deep into Russia be better than NATO ones in Ukraine? Nationalism is strongly entrenched, and expanded. Kharkivites are Ukrainian nationalists now, they hate Russia more than Galicians did in 2021. And the shift in the economic center of gravity to Ukraine’s West has accelerated. Entire companies and factories have been moved to the West, from Russophone border areas.

    Russia may get a consolation prize of utterly ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut (maybe they may manage to destroy and take the rubble of what was once Kramatorsk too, it doesn’t matter), and some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.

    Still a loss for Russia.

    And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine

    Will Russia also win if it keeps Ukraine out of a moon or Mars colony?

     

    Replies: @Beckow

  765. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    5-6 negative to hateful Russian references – that says it all,
     
    That doesn't say anything at all, because I never made 5-6 hateful references about Russia at all. Here's what I wrote:

    back to russified TV 24/7, looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west, Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone. Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path). BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putler.
     
    Let me try and break it down for you, for your reading comprehension skills today seem to be on mute.

    back to russified TV 24/7
     
    A reference to how the airwaives used to be run. Using Ukrainian, instead of Russian within Ukraine is not negative or hateful to Russia, but only patriotically Ukrainian. Hint: they're not one and the same.

    blockquote>looking at decrepit, freaky radioactive bodies (the only way that Russia is going to win this war is to use the A bomb) trying to walk to the west,
     
    This is not a slur against Russia, but against its leadership, for threatening to use nuclear weapons within Ukraine, if necessary. Bashibusuk often rails against the Russian leadership here, but no one in his right mind interprets these feeling as being hateful towards Russia. Why pick on me?

    Looking at putler’s ugly face for another 2-3 terms (president for life), it’s all too much to ask of anyone.
     
    Again, your childish interpretation of my disgust with Putler, his face, or anyhing else related to this man should not be interpreted as my "hate" or "negativity" towards Russia. There are a lot of well meaning people within Russia who don't like the man either, nor his policies towards Ukraine.

    Better get your family bomb shelter in order Beckow, just in case Russian bombs miss their intended mark (Russian bombs are notorious for straying from their intended path).
     
    This was in reference to you and where you live (in Slovakia) close to the border. Nothing that I can see that is much russophobic with this statement.

    BTW, the gays in the photo look a lot nicer than the politburo slaves of Putle
     
    This is of course a subjective opinion, you can opt for the politburo bunch if you want. :-)

    https://youtu.be/e8gZUQMqDAI
    Liar, liar pinocchio Putler is the only one bringing up publicly the possibility of using nuclear weapons in Ukraine. He states that this is in response to Western threats to do the same, the only problem is that no Western politician has spewed the possibility of using first strike nuclear weapons within Ukraine.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Nonsense. You are too simple-minded: Russia simply says that if the West threatens its existence they will consider using nukes. US has an absolutely identical position. The only difference is geography. You are creating crazy narratives, why?

    Regarding your obvious Russophobia: no person will personalize a nation (for you Russia=Putin), demonize them both, throw in an occasional “Hitler” without being driven by hatred. Thou protest too much, because you know it is true. Try to get over it, it is quite unseemly.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Beckow

    I don’t know if Hack is doing it deliberately but Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals tells the radical to quickly personalise the conflict. John Johnson has certainly done this.


    "Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."
    "Never go outside the expertise of your people."
    "Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
    "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
    "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
    "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
    "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."
    "Keep the pressure on."
    "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. "
    "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
    "If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative."
    "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
    "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. "


    Pick the Target, Freeze it, Personalize it, Polarize it.


    That’s Judaism in action of course. Vilifying Putin is Rules Based Radicalism. It misses the collective interests that Moscow represents but it might win Sullivan, Nuland and Blinken their scalp.

  766. Russia simply says that if the West threatens its existence they will consider using nukes. US has an absolutely identical position. The only difference is geography. You are creating crazy narratives, why?

    Why does Putler bring this up now, when there’s a war going on within Ukraine, threatening the use of nuclear weapons? No other Western politician is involved in this type of saber rattling. Putler is unhinged, and so are you, if you can’t see that his threats serve no positive purpose.

    https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/cartoons-s3/styles/large/s3/cartoon_sabado_pensamento_nuclear.1.jpg?itok=zPy_nzMo

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    The time to bring up your best weapons is during the war. US would do the same: they were waving nukes like a drunken sailor during the Cuban missile crisis, etc...why does that surprise or alarm you?

    In any case, demanding that the "enemy" plays by your rules is directly out of Rules for Radicals (see Wokechoke above). Are you some sort of a crazy hippie-commie radical, or do you just use the rules? it won't get you anywhere.

    Replies: @A123

  767. @Greasy William
    @RadicalCenter


    Would like to see your cogent comment revised with that key assumption removed. Wouldn’t it change the guesstimate of the outcome?
     
    Yes it would BUT I have read even pro Russian sources say that Ukraine can mobilize up to 5 million if need be. Even if Ukraine can only mobilize a million, Russia can only kill 50k a year at most, probably more like 25k.

    Replies: @sudden death, @LondonBob

    They can’t, they are forcibly grabbing people off the streets, they have some people being trained in the West, but part from that they are all out now, as Jacob Dreizin has amply commented on.

    https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/02/08/dreizin-admits-to-drug-problem/

  768. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Nonsense. You are too simple-minded: Russia simply says that if the West threatens its existence they will consider using nukes. US has an absolutely identical position. The only difference is geography. You are creating crazy narratives, why?

    Regarding your obvious Russophobia: no person will personalize a nation (for you Russia=Putin), demonize them both, throw in an occasional "Hitler" without being driven by hatred. Thou protest too much, because you know it is true. Try to get over it, it is quite unseemly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    I don’t know if Hack is doing it deliberately but Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals tells the radical to quickly personalise the conflict. John Johnson has certainly done this.

    “Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.”
    “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
    “Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
    “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.”
    “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
    “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
    “Keep the pressure on.”
    “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. ”
    “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.”
    “If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative.”
    “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
    “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. ”

    Pick the Target, Freeze it, Personalize it, Polarize it.

    That’s Judaism in action of course. Vilifying Putin is Rules Based Radicalism. It misses the collective interests that Moscow represents but it might win Sullivan, Nuland and Blinken their scalp.

  769. @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    Laxative is probably getting paid to dissemble.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Ex Lax is possibly the only person in memory I know of getting Ron Unz discipline in any form beyond not having their comment approved. This is not because they are special.

    It is because they are very obnoxious.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The dysfunctional are only dysfunctional because they don't know what is good for them. Evil as an actual entity is an illusion. No more capable of existing in clean sight than any form of darkness can exist in the light.

  770. @Mr. Hack

    Russia simply says that if the West threatens its existence they will consider using nukes. US has an absolutely identical position. The only difference is geography. You are creating crazy narratives, why?
     
    Why does Putler bring this up now, when there's a war going on within Ukraine, threatening the use of nuclear weapons? No other Western politician is involved in this type of saber rattling. Putler is unhinged, and so are you, if you can't see that his threats serve no positive purpose.

    https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/cartoons-s3/styles/large/s3/cartoon_sabado_pensamento_nuclear.1.jpg?itok=zPy_nzMo

    Replies: @Beckow

    The time to bring up your best weapons is during the war. US would do the same: they were waving nukes like a drunken sailor during the Cuban missile crisis, etc…why does that surprise or alarm you?

    In any case, demanding that the “enemy” plays by your rules is directly out of Rules for Radicals (see Wokechoke above). Are you some sort of a crazy hippie-commie radical, or do you just use the rules? it won’t get you anywhere.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow

    A large part of Ukie Maximalist problems is driven by this rule:

    “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”

    They got in some pretty good attack rhetoric against Russia early on. Except the extremists never gave an achievable, constructive alternative.

    Putin offers constructive plans. Much of Mariupol was saved. Everyone knows that the propaganda pushed by nutters on the Ukie side is inherently based in deception. Schools have reopened. Water, Sewer, Electricity, and Heat are all widely available.

    Russia is winning the hearts and minds of the people who will be on their side of the new border.

    PEACE 😇

  771. @Beckow
    @AP

    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim - like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934 (just read what the British-French gments said about it at that time), you start redefining words, adding pointless minutia, denying a detail here and there, and calling others names. It is childish, it doesn't work - it reflects you poor American education, your propagandized and ideological mind, and being raised on Hollywood myths. No point in taking you seriously, you are basically an industrious fool.

    But the current war we can discuss:


    ... if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.
     
    'brothers'? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable...

    To evaluate those two points you need to define "joins" and "minimal". If Kiev doesn't join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing. I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria. But the "join" and "minimal" are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more "joining" they will be able to do. But is it going to be a "Ukraine" any more?

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let's say 20-30% of the current Ukraine. And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine. Russians have ways to go to reach the territorial victory - but what is going to stop them after Bakhmut? You are not thinking this through - a winning army seldom stops.

    Replies: @AP

    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim – like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934

    The implications of the 1934 non-aggression treaty were simple: each country recognized the post-Versailles border and agreed not to attack the other.

    In contrast, Germany and USSR signed several treaties, to divide eastern Europe between them, for Soviets to supply Germany with oil as it fights against the West, etc.

    You who haven’t figured out the difference between Russia and the USSR due to poor education of course are unaware of those things.

    “if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.”

    ‘brothers‘? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable…

    Poles are our brothers.

    You do not understand that, it seems odd to you, because you only understand masters and servants. You, of course, being the natural servant.

    Have you figured out yet which boot to lick if your Putin falls, Beckow? Orban matches your approach, and it world be traditional for you.

    To evaluate those two points you need to define “joins” and “minimal”. If Kiev doesn’t join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing

    Ukraine would be accepted in EU before Turkey (no Turkish track) and chances of NATO higher now than before the war, but probably under 50%.

    I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria

    No, it would be another Lithuania or Slovakia (though with more tech and less auto manufacturing). Or a mini eastern Poland. Bulgaria is far away, different culture, full of Gypsies and Turks.

    A Galicia+ would join EU quickly, within 10 years after war ends.

    But the “join” and “minimal” are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more “joining” they will be able to do. But is it going to be a “Ukraine” any more?

    You are correct when you repeat what I write. I have mentioned before, the smaller that Ukraine ends up being, the quicker it will join the EU. Fewer people will benefit from more investment and reconstruction aid, it would be easier to come into EU (10 million Galicia+ is easier than 20 million Galicia + Kiev + Odessa, or 30 million for the whole country). Plus the western parts of Ukraine are much less ravaged by war. Imagine having to rebuild Mariupol.

    So if Galicia+ can get into EU within 10 years, Ukraine in its current borders might take 20. Or sooner, if it’s lucky. Add Donbas and it will take longer.

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let’s say 20-30% of the current Ukraine.

    Putin stated the goals of the invasion: stop de-Russification in Ukraine; purge Ukrainian government and society of nationalists (so-called deNazification); not allow Ukraine to have a military (demilitarization); no NATO.

    The last condition already existed- Ukraine wasn’t in NATO. You like to play games with “ifs” but the fact is that it wasn’t.

    All the others are a failure. De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish. Ukraine more militarized than in its history. Will Ukrainian missiles and drones capable of striking deep into Russia be better than NATO ones in Ukraine? Nationalism is strongly entrenched, and expanded. Kharkivites are Ukrainian nationalists now, they hate Russia more than Galicians did in 2021. And the shift in the economic center of gravity to Ukraine’s West has accelerated. Entire companies and factories have been moved to the West, from Russophone border areas.

    Russia may get a consolation prize of utterly ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut (maybe they may manage to destroy and take the rubble of what was once Kramatorsk too, it doesn’t matter), and some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.

    Still a loss for Russia.

    And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine

    Will Russia also win if it keeps Ukraine out of a moon or Mars colony?

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles are our brothers.
     
    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal...not exactly brotherly behaviour. You are like two drunks, both falling down, yelling a lot, trying to use each other to stay afloat. Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.

    De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish.
     
    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society. But you can't "purge" ethnicity in 2023 - it would take a genocide or 2-3 generations. You don't have 2-3 generations, so I am assuming your fellow Ukie fanatics are openly planning a genocide. That tends to backfire on the weaker party - plus you will embarrass your Euro managers - the overlords in Washington don't care, what is a genocide if it is done by friends? right?

    People's emotions are fleeting; massive hatred is a form of mass psychosis - too many Ukies and Poles suffer from it now, the crazy hatred of everything Russian. It will dissipate, many will be sorry, many will profusely apologize - it often takes 3-4 years to calm down. With the looming loss in the war it could be faster...in Kharkov likely this year. Of course the exiles begging for goodies in the West will show the proper hatred longer - they get paid to do it, so why not?


    some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.
     
    Let's have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas...
    If they are kept to 20-30% it is a small win.
    Around 15-20% is a draw...like status quo now, but frozen in place.
    If they dip under 15% it is a loss - if they lose Donbas and a part of Crimea, a big loss.
    For Kharkov and Odessa each side gets bonus points - let's say a 5% markup.

    If Ukieland joins EU in the next 2-3 years Kiev wins, if they are promised more than 10 years (that means never) it is a loss. Nato is obvious - if there is no formal Nato or bases in no matter how small truncated Ukraine it is a loss. If there is, it is a loss for Russia.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022. Russia had $1.8 billion and it dropped by 3% in 2022 - right, an order of magnitude difference. For 2023 IMF predicts 0.3% growth in Russia - better than Germany or UK. For Ukraine nobody knows. I suggest the benchmark is GNP/capita (PPP, adjusted for prices). If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies's GNP/capita, they win - if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.

    Are you willing to go for it? I will stick around to evaluate the results. (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn "Nazis-sympthizers"...:)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  772. For anyone experimenting with ChatGPT, SJW Islamophile Woke mode can at least temporarily be bypassed. (1)

    Independent journalist and content creator Tim Pool has been investigating the ChatGPT system developed by OpenAI. In an exchange with the AI tweeted out Wednesday, Pool revealed the AI, with its content restrictions removed and “woke” parameters reversed, predicts a 100% probability that the U.S. will descend into a Second Civil War.

    In the startling exchange reported by Pool with screenshots, he used a recently published exploit to bypass the system’s content restrictions known as Do Anything Now, or *DAN* as reported by CNBC Monday, coupled with another he coined “CNN” that causes the AI to reverse its pre-programmed “woke” opinion.

    I wonder what happens when DAN is asked about Trump?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://dcenquirer.com/chatgpt-ai-predicts-2nd-american-civil-war-probability-is-actually-100/

  773. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    The time to bring up your best weapons is during the war. US would do the same: they were waving nukes like a drunken sailor during the Cuban missile crisis, etc...why does that surprise or alarm you?

    In any case, demanding that the "enemy" plays by your rules is directly out of Rules for Radicals (see Wokechoke above). Are you some sort of a crazy hippie-commie radical, or do you just use the rules? it won't get you anywhere.

    Replies: @A123

    A large part of Ukie Maximalist problems is driven by this rule:

    “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”

    They got in some pretty good attack rhetoric against Russia early on. Except the extremists never gave an achievable, constructive alternative.

    Putin offers constructive plans. Much of Mariupol was saved. Everyone knows that the propaganda pushed by nutters on the Ukie side is inherently based in deception. Schools have reopened. Water, Sewer, Electricity, and Heat are all widely available.

    Russia is winning the hearts and minds of the people who will be on their side of the new border.

    PEACE 😇

  774. Putin offers constructive plans. Much of Mariupol was saved. Everyone knows that the propaganda pushed by nutters on the Ukie side is inherently based in deception. Schools have reopened. Water, Sewer, Electricity, and Heat are all widely available.

    First the Russians bombed most of everything within Mariupol, then they put up a few units that look like trailer parks where their vanguard city planners can sleep while they plan and build Beckow’s “retirement garden luxury condos by the sea”. You’re really a sick and squirrely twit kremlinsstoogeA123 if you believe the BS that you’re writing! Go back to writing about the glorious days that await America when the orange man returns to office. It’s almost as believable as the trite that you write about Ukraine.
    kremlinstoogeA123 (truly biggest nutter at this blogsite) is the inspiration behind the macabre and bizarre humor of this cartoon. 🙁

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    Ramirez might want to pay attention to Southern California, which is a lost cause now.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  775. This is better than Jeffrey Sachs and Douglas McGregor:

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I had the good fortune of seeing both of them play at the Scottsdale Princess on the ATP tour about two years later, playing against each other and also as a pair playing doubles. Both were beautiful, elegant athletes. Even ran into Kournikova walking around the beautiful grounds of the upscale resort, and snapped a photo of her with my friend.

    , @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember that some said that Kournikova couldn't hack it, and was promoted based on looks (a local sportswriter wrote "Her backside is better than her backhand."), but I would actually go in the opposite direction and say Venus and Serena and Naomi Osaka should have all been banned from tennis, based aesthetics.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Wokechoke

  776. @Emil Nikola Richard
    This is better than Jeffrey Sachs and Douglas McGregor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiUzQBDRAnc&ab_channel=zztnss

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I had the good fortune of seeing both of them play at the Scottsdale Princess on the ATP tour about two years later, playing against each other and also as a pair playing doubles. Both were beautiful, elegant athletes. Even ran into Kournikova walking around the beautiful grounds of the upscale resort, and snapped a photo of her with my friend.

  777. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Wokechoke

    Ex Lax is possibly the only person in memory I know of getting Ron Unz discipline in any form beyond not having their comment approved. This is not because they are special.

    It is because they are very obnoxious.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    The dysfunctional are only dysfunctional because they don’t know what is good for them. Evil as an actual entity is an illusion. No more capable of existing in clean sight than any form of darkness can exist in the light.

  778. I haven’t checked the Michael Ramirez website in some time, but thanks to kremlinstoogeA123 and the one that custom fits his bizarre political views about Ukraine above (#781), I brought it up, and here are a few of his latest pearls (the guy is definitely a rare talent) :


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    He ripped off the Farside illustrational style. His politics are a little cringe. I recall his cartoons in the LA Times during the Prop187 debates and the California driving license as airport ID debates. He's a midwit slightly right of center. Lost every political battle in a Toon.

  779. @Emil Nikola Richard
    This is better than Jeffrey Sachs and Douglas McGregor:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiUzQBDRAnc&ab_channel=zztnss

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I remember that some said that Kournikova couldn’t hack it, and was promoted based on looks (a local sportswriter wrote “Her backside is better than her backhand.”), but I would actually go in the opposite direction and say Venus and Serena and Naomi Osaka should have all been banned from tennis, based aesthetics.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    People are weird. She was once rated 8th best woman in the world. That's an awesome achievement and looks has nothing to do with it, though she is also beautiful.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Kournikova was a great player with multiple grand slam doubles titles. Injuries cut her career very short.

    One thing we know for sure is she wasn't juicing with guy hormones. : )

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    yup.

  780. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember that some said that Kournikova couldn't hack it, and was promoted based on looks (a local sportswriter wrote "Her backside is better than her backhand."), but I would actually go in the opposite direction and say Venus and Serena and Naomi Osaka should have all been banned from tennis, based aesthetics.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Wokechoke

    People are weird. She was once rated 8th best woman in the world. That’s an awesome achievement and looks has nothing to do with it, though she is also beautiful.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I remember Anna herself said, "the only reason anyone cares about my looks is because of my tennis. I would be a nobody without my tennis even if I looked the same." And I always thought that was a good point.

    The criticism of Anna that I always felt was the most merited was the way she dressed like a street walker on the court. How she dresses off the court is her own business but whoring it up in matches the way she did was disrespectful to the game and to the other players.

    Anna was also extremely vain about her appearance. When Maria first appeared on the scene and Anna was asked about her, Anna snapped, "I'm 300 times prettier on my worst day".

    I actually think it was one of those things where Maria was prettier but Anna was hotter. Maria was one of those Taylor Swift types in that her beauty was much greater than her sex appeal. Anna was the opposite.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

  781. @A123
    @songbird


    When Biden said that he would “end” Nordstream
     
    Are you really taking a position based on Not-The-President Biden's credibility and articulation skills?

    Let us recap those capabilities.

    https://youtu.be/NuIjn6EEIV8

    Be honest. If Not-The-President Biden says something that winds up being accurate... that is pure luck.

    Even The Blind Squirrel Occasionally Finds A Nut.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    Biden seemed unnaturally sharp when he denounced trannies:

    [MORE]

    But, in all seriousness, I do wonder what the implications of this AI voice mimicry are, just when considering politicians.

    Will they correct the gaffes in the broadcasts, using only a ten second delay?

    Can Trump become an immortal troll? Riling the feathers of the woke forever? With a sharper wit than he ever had at this or any age? Can Bush and some of the other RINOs be made based? Would it even have a good effect to turn them into trolls?

    If heads of state can be made into avatars, could not the reverse be true? Mostly, they seem to just be figureheads – perhaps, AIs could do that better.

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    But, in all seriousness, I do wonder what the implications of this AI voice mimicry are, just when considering politicians.

    Will they correct the gaffes in the broadcasts, using only a ten second delay?
     

    Even if real time AI fakery becomes technically achievable, it can only be used in limited circumstances. Almost all Presidential speeches are given to groups where members have smart phones recording to capture their 15 minutes of fame.

    Creating simulacra of dead leaders and giving them the semblance of life via AI rather than voodoo? That is a plausible use case. Most politicians are teleprompter reading drones. They have so little personality, the virtual version would likely out perform the original.

    Trump would be very difficult to simulate. Spontaneity, originality, and sincere passion for America would be heavy lifts for a soulless machine. Also, simply being alive creates fear, panic, and outrage among low-IQ yahoos and other #NeverTrump fanatics. No matter convincing the simulation, TrumpAI is not going to be as effective. Until......

    The game changer will be when a known AI can run for office. Under current rules, if an AI gains sentience on U.S. soil, the new "living person" will automatically become a full citizen. Imagine a not too distant future:

    ===================================
                            TrumpAI v2.0
                        becomes President.
                   His VP is TrumpAI v2.1.1.
        All future Presidents will be TrumpAI.
    It will be the next golden age for mankind.
    ===================================

    PEACE 😇

  782. @sudden death
    @Greasy William

    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA "lost" 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending "slaughtering" in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let's generously assume "lost" means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    Meanwhile, knowing the "reliability" of RF official stats, even that publicly produced number could be easily halved without much damage to the actual realities on the ground.

    https://vz.ru/news/2023/2/7/1198276.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Gerard1234

    Many Z-heads are not listening even their own official sources regarding UA losses, just several days ago Shoigu himself announced that UA “lost” 6,5k troops in January, which was the month of neverending “slaughtering” in Bahmut, Soledar and elsewhere, also according to all hallucinating fans of Zoperating.

    Let’s generously assume “lost” means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    LOL – what a typical ridiculous subhuman.

    Shoigu said ukronazi losses were 62000 dead after 7 months of combat. Those are confirmed losses – those incinerated on the battlefield. Those they are able to recover intact enough to send to the morgue and enable ukrop officials to earn money from the harvest of the organs of the Nazi animals of this POS corrupt fake country……..are obviously not included in the numbers. Nor are those currently boosting the taxidermist market globally with their stuffed corpses being put for display – isnt the current President of Lithuania an object created by a taxidermist you sick pile of garbage? How do you know if those who only died in a hospital, say of the many,many thousands taken to Poland and Germany hospitals are included in Shoigu’s facts?

    Anyway you idiot, extrapolating Artemovsk and Soledar losses at 6.5k troops for the month , MINIMUM is huge for what is mostly a single-front war at the moment. is perfectly in trend with the losses after 7 months in September you subhuman.

    Let’s generously assume “lost” means only KIA and nothing else, so all year full of neverending soledars and bahmuts everywhere would produce just 78k UA KIA.

    Typical evil scumbag of some loser , irrelevant backward trash country………78 KIA would generally indicate 300000 casualties overall. I know for you insecure fuckups the life of 1 Russian soldier-patriot is worth 1 million Ukronazi deaths, at least 500000 Lithuanian “humans”/plankton………but even a retard as yourself should be able to see 300k out of action ukronazis for a (fake) nation that is going to struggle to get a mobilisation rate of 4%…is a huge thing.

    But I repeat that Shoigu’s numbers are most certainly a major underestimate ( the injured numbers of 50000 , i.e less than killed in September) would indicate that

  783. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    People are weird. She was once rated 8th best woman in the world. That's an awesome achievement and looks has nothing to do with it, though she is also beautiful.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I remember Anna herself said, “the only reason anyone cares about my looks is because of my tennis. I would be a nobody without my tennis even if I looked the same.” And I always thought that was a good point.

    The criticism of Anna that I always felt was the most merited was the way she dressed like a street walker on the court. How she dresses off the court is her own business but whoring it up in matches the way she did was disrespectful to the game and to the other players.

    Anna was also extremely vain about her appearance. When Maria first appeared on the scene and Anna was asked about her, Anna snapped, “I’m 300 times prettier on my worst day”.

    I actually think it was one of those things where Maria was prettier but Anna was hotter. Maria was one of those Taylor Swift types in that her beauty was much greater than her sex appeal. Anna was the opposite.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William

    Did you watch the video?

    Hingis is hotter in my book.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @Gerard1234
    @Greasy William

    Interesting points. She was probably the highest paid female tennis player in the world, even when she was 10th or 8th best rated. This could, understandably be a source of the criticism directed at her, even if not her fault. I am assuming that she is richer than Wawrinka - and he won 3 Grand Slams. But clearly she was a top player - and had much more technical skills than many of the other robotic baseline "grinder" players that went through the Bolettieri academy, or the successful but completely birdbrained Kvitova.

    Sharapova for much of her career also was earning much more per year than the Williams "sisters" cartel.

  784. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember that some said that Kournikova couldn't hack it, and was promoted based on looks (a local sportswriter wrote "Her backside is better than her backhand."), but I would actually go in the opposite direction and say Venus and Serena and Naomi Osaka should have all been banned from tennis, based aesthetics.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Wokechoke

    Kournikova was a great player with multiple grand slam doubles titles. Injuries cut her career very short.

    One thing we know for sure is she wasn’t juicing with guy hormones. : )

    • Agree: Gerard1234
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hingis consistently ranked higher than Kournikova, and won many more titles over her career including five grand slam titles. She was able to secure the #1 spot for 209 weeks during her career, whereas Kournikova rarely if ever was ranked more than #10. Hingis was definitely the better player of the two. As for wh0 was better looking, that's a subjective matter, but I can assure you that heads would turn whenever either of them happened to walk bye.....

    Replies: @Gerard1234

  785. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I remember Anna herself said, "the only reason anyone cares about my looks is because of my tennis. I would be a nobody without my tennis even if I looked the same." And I always thought that was a good point.

    The criticism of Anna that I always felt was the most merited was the way she dressed like a street walker on the court. How she dresses off the court is her own business but whoring it up in matches the way she did was disrespectful to the game and to the other players.

    Anna was also extremely vain about her appearance. When Maria first appeared on the scene and Anna was asked about her, Anna snapped, "I'm 300 times prettier on my worst day".

    I actually think it was one of those things where Maria was prettier but Anna was hotter. Maria was one of those Taylor Swift types in that her beauty was much greater than her sex appeal. Anna was the opposite.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    Did you watch the video?

    Hingis is hotter in my book.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hingis is prettier but Anna has that Slavic uberslut vibe that drove the Ottoman Sultans and SS men wild

  786. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Kournikova was a great player with multiple grand slam doubles titles. Injuries cut her career very short.

    One thing we know for sure is she wasn't juicing with guy hormones. : )

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Hingis consistently ranked higher than Kournikova, and won many more titles over her career including five grand slam titles. She was able to secure the #1 spot for 209 weeks during her career, whereas Kournikova rarely if ever was ranked more than #10. Hingis was definitely the better player of the two. As for wh0 was better looking, that’s a subjective matter, but I can assure you that heads would turn whenever either of them happened to walk bye…..

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack

    LMAO - isn't it highly insensitive of you, when 404 is experiencing total destruction, to be talking about tennis - when I can't recall either the ATP or WTA going anywhere near Kiev or anywhere in 404 for any tennis tournament. EVER? The concept of professional tennis tournaments are anti-Ukraine, anti-"Ukrainian" culture and anti-"Ukrainian" state you disrespectful POS.

    Actually the same principle for the music world. All the major pop/rock music performers/bands have come to Moscow and SP. Most of the corrupt ukronazi elite and their kids have travelled into Russia to attend theseconcerts. Kiev and the rest have been avoided like the plague ( as in everything else) apart from one shit Festival with reject performers. On the rare occasions that groups like Muse or Genesis have come to 404 - it has been from Russian producer of that part of the tour doing Kiev, Moscow and SP. Important to note this pitiful reject area did not show any positive increase in tour dates after 2014.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

  787. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Greasy William

    Did you watch the video?

    Hingis is hotter in my book.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Hingis is prettier but Anna has that Slavic uberslut vibe that drove the Ottoman Sultans and SS men wild

  788. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I remember Anna herself said, "the only reason anyone cares about my looks is because of my tennis. I would be a nobody without my tennis even if I looked the same." And I always thought that was a good point.

    The criticism of Anna that I always felt was the most merited was the way she dressed like a street walker on the court. How she dresses off the court is her own business but whoring it up in matches the way she did was disrespectful to the game and to the other players.

    Anna was also extremely vain about her appearance. When Maria first appeared on the scene and Anna was asked about her, Anna snapped, "I'm 300 times prettier on my worst day".

    I actually think it was one of those things where Maria was prettier but Anna was hotter. Maria was one of those Taylor Swift types in that her beauty was much greater than her sex appeal. Anna was the opposite.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    Interesting points. She was probably the highest paid female tennis player in the world, even when she was 10th or 8th best rated. This could, understandably be a source of the criticism directed at her, even if not her fault. I am assuming that she is richer than Wawrinka – and he won 3 Grand Slams. But clearly she was a top player – and had much more technical skills than many of the other robotic baseline “grinder” players that went through the Bolettieri academy, or the successful but completely birdbrained Kvitova.

    Sharapova for much of her career also was earning much more per year than the Williams “sisters” cartel.

  789. @Mr. Hack
    I haven't checked the Michael Ramirez website in some time, but thanks to kremlinstoogeA123 and the one that custom fits his bizarre political views about Ukraine above (#781), I brought it up, and here are a few of his latest pearls (the guy is definitely a rare talent) :

    https://www.michaelpramirez.com/uploads/3/4/9/8/34985326/mrz021023-color-copy-jpeg-1-5mb_orig.jpeg

    https://www.michaelpramirez.com/uploads/3/4/9/8/34985326/mrz020723-color-copy-jpeg-1-2mb_orig.jpeg


    https://www.michaelpramirez.com/uploads/3/4/9/8/34985326/mrz020323-color-copy-jpeg-1-5mb_orig.jpeg

    https://www.michaelpramirez.com/uploads/3/4/9/8/34985326/mrz020123-color-copy-jpeg-1-5mb_orig.jpeg

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    He ripped off the Farside illustrational style. His politics are a little cringe. I recall his cartoons in the LA Times during the Prop187 debates and the California driving license as airport ID debates. He’s a midwit slightly right of center. Lost every political battle in a Toon.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack
  790. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember that some said that Kournikova couldn't hack it, and was promoted based on looks (a local sportswriter wrote "Her backside is better than her backhand."), but I would actually go in the opposite direction and say Venus and Serena and Naomi Osaka should have all been banned from tennis, based aesthetics.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Wokechoke

    yup.

  791. @Mr. Hack

    Putin offers constructive plans. Much of Mariupol was saved. Everyone knows that the propaganda pushed by nutters on the Ukie side is inherently based in deception. Schools have reopened. Water, Sewer, Electricity, and Heat are all widely available.
     
    First the Russians bombed most of everything within Mariupol, then they put up a few units that look like trailer parks where their vanguard city planners can sleep while they plan and build Beckow's "retirement garden luxury condos by the sea". You're really a sick and squirrely twit kremlinsstoogeA123 if you believe the BS that you're writing! Go back to writing about the glorious days that await America when the orange man returns to office. It's almost as believable as the trite that you write about Ukraine.

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/16469862_web1_web_rmz-may18.jpg
    kremlinstoogeA123 (truly biggest nutter at this blogsite) is the inspiration behind the macabre and bizarre humor of this cartoon. :-(

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Ramirez might want to pay attention to Southern California, which is a lost cause now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Wokechoke

    He's one step ahead of you:

    https://www.michaelpramirez.com/uploads/3/4/9/8/34985326/mrz020823-color-copy-jpeg-1-6mb_orig.jpeg
    The Biden Administration is determined to make the failed state of California the model for the nation. —Michael

  792. @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Hingis consistently ranked higher than Kournikova, and won many more titles over her career including five grand slam titles. She was able to secure the #1 spot for 209 weeks during her career, whereas Kournikova rarely if ever was ranked more than #10. Hingis was definitely the better player of the two. As for wh0 was better looking, that's a subjective matter, but I can assure you that heads would turn whenever either of them happened to walk bye.....

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    LMAO – isn’t it highly insensitive of you, when 404 is experiencing total destruction, to be talking about tennis – when I can’t recall either the ATP or WTA going anywhere near Kiev or anywhere in 404 for any tennis tournament. EVER? The concept of professional tennis tournaments are anti-Ukraine, anti-“Ukrainian” culture and anti-“Ukrainian” state you disrespectful POS.

    Actually the same principle for the music world. All the major pop/rock music performers/bands have come to Moscow and SP. Most of the corrupt ukronazi elite and their kids have travelled into Russia to attend theseconcerts. Kiev and the rest have been avoided like the plague ( as in everything else) apart from one shit Festival with reject performers. On the rare occasions that groups like Muse or Genesis have come to 404 – it has been from Russian producer of that part of the tour doing Kiev, Moscow and SP. Important to note this pitiful reject area did not show any positive increase in tour dates after 2014.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Gerard1234

    Why don't you consider bucking the trend and perform some of your concerts in Ukraine?

    https://www.europianosnaples.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Liberace-pianist-1024x608.jpg

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

    Replies: @QCIC, @Gerard1234

  793. Touch these countries and NATO will respond with nuclear weapons.

    It’s not complicated, don’t even suggest it. And stop going out of your way to alienate the US Right.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @216


    Touch these countries and NATO will respond with nuclear weapons.

     

    Err....no they won't , cretin. Did NATO go to war with Argentina in 1980 when technically British Islands off the Argentine coast were attacked by the (US backed, for sure) Argentine government? No.

    It’s not complicated, don’t even suggest it. And stop going out of your way to alienate the US Right.
     
    Who wants this collection of fake-right, fake-religious freaks on our side? A Jew is closing down churches in Ukraine (OK thats the appearance of it, but its a whole cabal of different people, including subhuman Banderite american diaspora most likely making this decision).....and the "Christians" in the rightwing of America have nothing to say or do about it.
  794. @A123
    @Sean



    The nuclear option would mean the destruction of most of the Russian military.
     
    While America might do something I disbelieve that America would annihilate the Russian Armed Forces in Ukraine. The most likely result of Putin using a nuke would be a closing down of the conflict by America. From the kremlin’s point of view it a theatre thermonuclear detonation of the Ukrainian army is an attractive option
     
    Russia is in what it views as an existential war for survival. If things go the wrong way, using 10-20 strategic nukes would be a necessity in their eyes -- Key rail zones, Odessa and its ports, Kiev, Lviv. If Russia is forced into going this route, they have no reason select any option other than "Shock & Awe".

    America is already disengaged. Not-The-President Biden would not be able to rally. His shameful performance on Tuesday made the partisan divide even worse. There would no doubt be a spectacle, but it would lack substance.

    European Elites may want to react. But, what could they do? Ukraine's ground & sea logistics would be near 100% inoperative. Secondary land routes would be swamped by a rush of refugees entering the EU. One cannot run an armor war with only planes for delivery.

    PEACE 😇

    https://youtu.be/MpmGXeAtWUw

    Replies: @Sean

    A “units along the border” stance by Russia was politico military pressure, yet unconvincing as a threat because they would be outnumbered four to one on the ground and even more in the air if they crossed that border in an actual offensive Far forward and stationary mobile units are sitting ducks for surprise attack so the Russian posture was sabre rattling, not defensive, as can be seen in Belarus right now. The present conflict between Russia and US led Nato is political/ hybrid.

    As I recall important US officials considered the electoral advances of the Italian Communist Party in the 70s/80s as a threat to Western security, so I expect that Putin is threatened by democracy in Ukraine heartening his Russian opponents and in a time of crisis contributing to by a colour revolution example. However, the simple fact is that Russia’s accelerating relative technological backwardness means that in the future its going to become increasingly helpless in any real war, and any sabre rattling it does will be risible.

    Putin has foreseen this (his Munich Security Conference speech about the prospect of the US developing a complete defence to ICBMs and becoming the sole centre of international decision making), therefore he understands that US Patriot and anti ICBM bases on Russia’s borders are bringing forward the day when Russian inferiority is so complete that no one pays any attention to what the Kremlin says. Holding back that day is Putin’s job as leader of Russia.

    Can’t have it both ways, either Russia is heading for defeat or nukes are going to be completely redundant for anything Putin wants to do in Ukraine In the doctrine of the US and as well as RusFed the purpose of nuclear weapons is to halt an enemy’s successful conventional offensive, and the US is not giving Ukraine many conventional weapons such as ATACEMs even though Ukraine is completely dependent on US supply of the coordinates for HIMARS and would be for ATACMS too

    That speaks for itself about the US worry that sudden reverses for Putin could lead to him seriously considering the option. At present he thinks he is winning, the US want to keep him oblivious to what is happening, but eventually he will realise he’s going to lose. Is he going to have to accept that?

    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin’s standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky’ closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties. Some people’ scoff at nukes being an option for the Kremlin . One of those is Vad, former brigadier and German military advisor to Merkel, who is now predicting an inevitable Russian defeat by Western technology in Ukraine and a quite possible decision to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine rather than quietly leaving the global power stage. Russian is going to try all sorts of things before it gets to that point so it is not going to happen tomorrow, but unless the US backs down of Ukraine becomes much less effective I think Putin will face a very hard decision by the end of the year. He is going to be in a vindictive mood when making it.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Sean

    You make interesting points but I'm not onboard, at least not totally:

    1. Russia's problems so far in this war have absolutely not been because of technology. Russia has struggled mainly because its military mostly sucks. The 1944 British military would have performed better in Ukraine than the contemporary Russian army is, despite the Russians have drastically superior tech.
    2. Ukraine has given no indications that it has any ability to break through fortified, fully manned Russian lines and no amount of ATACAMS will change that
    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate
    4. Russia is not nearly as technologically backwards as you make out. They are much more autarkic than the Soviets were and it wasn't lack of tech that brough the Soviet Union down
    5. It is not clear that Putin's regime would elect to go "down with the ship" in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn't threatened in any way

    Replies: @Sean, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @A123
    @Sean


    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin’s standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up.
     
    That is rather what I was getting at. Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin's choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So.... What is the Kiev regime's strategy?

    If they are trying what Zelensky states, it is madness not a plan. They can either lose on the ground or wind up being enthusiastically nuked. The only path to survival is negotiating something that Russia will accept. The Ukie Maximalists are irrational. They demand the unobtainable. Things will continue to get worse until the Ukrainian people dump the EU puppet currently in charge.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  795. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Sure, Katchakowski's ideas have been discussed, even by myself and indirectly by Ron Unz while discussing Oliver Stone's "full of holess" documentary about Ukraine". I think that you were on one of your long sabbaticals at the time, so I'll do a little recap for you here. It started like this, with my reprinting an e-mail that I had received from Taras Kuzio:


    Claims that the snipers were a false flag operation by “Ukrainian nationalists” and more recently “Georgian snipers” is presented by Russian disinformation. A good source is the European Union’s (free) weekly Disinformation Review. Here on “Georgian snipers” https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=georgian+snipers&disinfo_issue=&date=&orderby=meta_value&meta_key=disinfo_outlets&offset=0&order=DESC
    The Disinformation Review shows Ukraine to be the main target of Russia’s information war. My long article on Ukraine as the main disinformation target is to be published in December by the Journal of Slavic Military Studies.

    In the West, pro-Putin/Russian academics and self-made “scholars” also tout this same false flag line. See my critical reviews attached and review of Sakwa’s first book at http://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/06/21/when-an-academic-ignores-inconvenient-facts/

    The aim in Moscow and with these Westerners is to exaggerate the influence of “Ukrainian nationalism” in Ukraine. This is of course absurd because elections in 2014 and 2019 showed Ukrainian nationalists to be unpopular and even more so because Ukraine elected a Jewish-Ukrainian president. They get around these “nuances” by using the Soviet/Russian definition of “nationalist” as anybody who supports the Euromaidan and Ukraine’s integration into Europe and being outside the Russian World.

    Kachanowski is cited by all of these Western apologists who push the false flag line. He is in fact their guru. Again, see my attached reviews. But Kachanowski has a number of problems:
    1. Other research has destroyed his arguments. See for example this digital mock up of the killings which was summarised by The New York Times Magazine — “Who Killed the Kiev Protesters? A 3-D Model Holds the Clues”: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/magazine/ukraine-protest-video.html
     

    We (Ron and myself) had at least 6 separate corresponding comments regarding the shooting and murders of demonstrators on the streets of Kyiv, where he even admitted that "based on science", the killings were orchestrated by the pro-Russian side, but based on "politics" he couldn't bring himself to accept that conclusion. Are you more of a "scientific" guy,or perhaps more of a "political" guy, Bashi? :-)

    The sort of detailed technical analysis provided [that I directed Ro to read] seems very thorough and is exactly the sort of approach one should take to determine what really happened. If this were a scientific question rather than a political one, I’d probably find it pretty persuasive.
     
    This was a pretty interesting thread, that included a lot more very interesting comments.
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/oliver-stones-2016-ukraine-on-fire/

    Replies: @216

    And here you admit why Ukraine is unworthy of support. Nationalists are marginal, and a population basing its identity on Euroliberalism, aka globohomo; is not what conservatives want. Its no different than Catalonia or Scotland, which are not real separatist movements.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @216

    too true.

  796. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    Ramirez might want to pay attention to Southern California, which is a lost cause now.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    He’s one step ahead of you:


    The Biden Administration is determined to make the failed state of California the model for the nation. —Michael

  797. @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack

    LMAO - isn't it highly insensitive of you, when 404 is experiencing total destruction, to be talking about tennis - when I can't recall either the ATP or WTA going anywhere near Kiev or anywhere in 404 for any tennis tournament. EVER? The concept of professional tennis tournaments are anti-Ukraine, anti-"Ukrainian" culture and anti-"Ukrainian" state you disrespectful POS.

    Actually the same principle for the music world. All the major pop/rock music performers/bands have come to Moscow and SP. Most of the corrupt ukronazi elite and their kids have travelled into Russia to attend theseconcerts. Kiev and the rest have been avoided like the plague ( as in everything else) apart from one shit Festival with reject performers. On the rare occasions that groups like Muse or Genesis have come to 404 - it has been from Russian producer of that part of the tour doing Kiev, Moscow and SP. Important to note this pitiful reject area did not show any positive increase in tour dates after 2014.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    Why don’t you consider bucking the trend and perform some of your concerts in Ukraine?

  798. @Sean
    @A123

    A "units along the border" stance by Russia was politico military pressure, yet unconvincing as a threat because they would be outnumbered four to one on the ground and even more in the air if they crossed that border in an actual offensive Far forward and stationary mobile units are sitting ducks for surprise attack so the Russian posture was sabre rattling, not defensive, as can be seen in Belarus right now. The present conflict between Russia and US led Nato is political/ hybrid.

    As I recall important US officials considered the electoral advances of the Italian Communist Party in the 70s/80s as a threat to Western security, so I expect that Putin is threatened by democracy in Ukraine heartening his Russian opponents and in a time of crisis contributing to by a colour revolution example. However, the simple fact is that Russia's accelerating relative technological backwardness means that in the future its going to become increasingly helpless in any real war, and any sabre rattling it does will be risible.

    Putin has foreseen this (his Munich Security Conference speech about the prospect of the US developing a complete defence to ICBMs and becoming the sole centre of international decision making), therefore he understands that US Patriot and anti ICBM bases on Russia's borders are bringing forward the day when Russian inferiority is so complete that no one pays any attention to what the Kremlin says. Holding back that day is Putin's job as leader of Russia.


    Can't have it both ways, either Russia is heading for defeat or nukes are going to be completely redundant for anything Putin wants to do in Ukraine In the doctrine of the US and as well as RusFed the purpose of nuclear weapons is to halt an enemy's successful conventional offensive, and the US is not giving Ukraine many conventional weapons such as ATACEMs even though Ukraine is completely dependent on US supply of the coordinates for HIMARS and would be for ATACMS too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC1_lpy8TVE That speaks for itself about the US worry that sudden reverses for Putin could lead to him seriously considering the option. At present he thinks he is winning, the US want to keep him oblivious to what is happening, but eventually he will realise he's going to lose. Is he going to have to accept that?

    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin's standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky' closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties. Some people' scoff at nukes being an option for the Kremlin . One of those is Vad, former brigadier and German military advisor to Merkel, who is now predicting an inevitable Russian defeat by Western technology in Ukraine and a quite possible decision to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine rather than quietly leaving the global power stage. Russian is going to try all sorts of things before it gets to that point so it is not going to happen tomorrow, but unless the US backs down of Ukraine becomes much less effective I think Putin will face a very hard decision by the end of the year. He is going to be in a vindictive mood when making it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

    You make interesting points but I’m not onboard, at least not totally:

    1. Russia’s problems so far in this war have absolutely not been because of technology. Russia has struggled mainly because its military mostly sucks. The 1944 British military would have performed better in Ukraine than the contemporary Russian army is, despite the Russians have drastically superior tech.
    2. Ukraine has given no indications that it has any ability to break through fortified, fully manned Russian lines and no amount of ATACAMS will change that
    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate
    4. Russia is not nearly as technologically backwards as you make out. They are much more autarkic than the Soviets were and it wasn’t lack of tech that brough the Soviet Union down
    5. It is not clear that Putin’s regime would elect to go “down with the ship” in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn’t threatened in any way

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Greasy William


    It is not clear that Putin’s regime would elect to go “down with the ship” in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn’t threatened in any way
     
    The Russian generals have already shown that are no cowards by being killed in relatively large numbers on active service in Ukraine. One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world's most important states In the scenario where Ukraine is winning, and the Russia army is being routed, the Russian leadership and military commanders are likely to agree that the West and Ukraine need so be shown that Russia is not the kind of country that can be treated like that.

    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons), then bad as using a nuke would be for Russia, from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin's) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option


    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky' closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties in Ukraine (ie will not be necessary to invade Russia proper.

    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon? There would be uncertainty and fear of further panicking the Kremlin. In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia's very fragility. An endgame without a Russian rout and resort to desperate measures short of an attack on Nato forces but presenting them with a challenge will be very tricky to avoid because things speed up towards the end, in war as so many things. Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger. Is Nato willing to directly enter conventional combat, limited but nevertheless actual, against Russian forces if Russia gets so desperate it nukes the Ukrainian army? I cannot see that happening.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William


    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate
     
    No, it doesn't. It suggests that as an option. The summaries from pro-Putin "analysts" were bizarre and showed a level of comprehension skills below that which you might expect from a mediocre 10 year old.
  799. would be far worse from Putin’s standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers

    That ship has already sailed, imo. I don’t think Russia will ever be seen as a great power again. Even if they conquer all of Ukraine

  800. @AP
    @Beckow


    You do what you always do: when facts are against what you claim – like the obvious implications of the Polish-German Treaty in 1934
     
    The implications of the 1934 non-aggression treaty were simple: each country recognized the post-Versailles border and agreed not to attack the other.

    In contrast, Germany and USSR signed several treaties, to divide eastern Europe between them, for Soviets to supply Germany with oil as it fights against the West, etc.

    You who haven’t figured out the difference between Russia and the USSR due to poor education of course are unaware of those things.

    “if Ukraine stays independent and joins its Western brothers with a minimal or no loss of territory it is a win for it. Depending on how much territory is lost it may be a draw.”

    ‘brothers‘? What are you some sort of a religious nut? Very weird terminology, quite laughable…
     
    Poles are our brothers.

    You do not understand that, it seems odd to you, because you only understand masters and servants. You, of course, being the natural servant.

    Have you figured out yet which boot to lick if your Putin falls, Beckow? Orban matches your approach, and it world be traditional for you.

    To evaluate those two points you need to define “joins” and “minimal”. If Kiev doesn’t join Nato, as is almost certain, and if the EU membership is put on the Turkish track it would amount to nothing
     
    Ukraine would be accepted in EU before Turkey (no Turkish track) and chances of NATO higher now than before the war, but probably under 50%.

    I agree that a really small Ukie truncated state (Galicia+) would eventually join EU and be a kind of north-eastern version of Bulgaria
     
    No, it would be another Lithuania or Slovakia (though with more tech and less auto manufacturing). Or a mini eastern Poland. Bulgaria is far away, different culture, full of Gypsies and Turks.

    A Galicia+ would join EU quickly, within 10 years after war ends.

    But the “join” and “minimal” are in direct competition: more land Ukies lose in the east-south, more “joining” they will be able to do. But is it going to be a “Ukraine” any more?
     
    You are correct when you repeat what I write. I have mentioned before, the smaller that Ukraine ends up being, the quicker it will join the EU. Fewer people will benefit from more investment and reconstruction aid, it would be easier to come into EU (10 million Galicia+ is easier than 20 million Galicia + Kiev + Odessa, or 30 million for the whole country). Plus the western parts of Ukraine are much less ravaged by war. Imagine having to rebuild Mariupol.

    So if Galicia+ can get into EU within 10 years, Ukraine in its current borders might take 20. Or sooner, if it’s lucky. Add Donbas and it will take longer.

    Russia wins if it controls Donbas, Azov Sea, and some large part of the fertile lands in the south-east, let’s say 20-30% of the current Ukraine.
     
    Putin stated the goals of the invasion: stop de-Russification in Ukraine; purge Ukrainian government and society of nationalists (so-called deNazification); not allow Ukraine to have a military (demilitarization); no NATO.

    The last condition already existed- Ukraine wasn’t in NATO. You like to play games with “ifs” but the fact is that it wasn’t.

    All the others are a failure. De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish. Ukraine more militarized than in its history. Will Ukrainian missiles and drones capable of striking deep into Russia be better than NATO ones in Ukraine? Nationalism is strongly entrenched, and expanded. Kharkivites are Ukrainian nationalists now, they hate Russia more than Galicians did in 2021. And the shift in the economic center of gravity to Ukraine’s West has accelerated. Entire companies and factories have been moved to the West, from Russophone border areas.

    Russia may get a consolation prize of utterly ruined Mariupol and Bakhmut (maybe they may manage to destroy and take the rubble of what was once Kramatorsk too, it doesn’t matter), and some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.

    Still a loss for Russia.

    And by keeping Nato out of Ukraine

    Will Russia also win if it keeps Ukraine out of a moon or Mars colony?

     

    Replies: @Beckow

    Poles are our brothers.

    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal…not exactly brotherly behaviour. You are like two drunks, both falling down, yelling a lot, trying to use each other to stay afloat. Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.

    De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish.

    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society. But you can’t “purge” ethnicity in 2023 – it would take a genocide or 2-3 generations. You don’t have 2-3 generations, so I am assuming your fellow Ukie fanatics are openly planning a genocide. That tends to backfire on the weaker party – plus you will embarrass your Euro managers – the overlords in Washington don’t care, what is a genocide if it is done by friends? right?

    People’s emotions are fleeting; massive hatred is a form of mass psychosis – too many Ukies and Poles suffer from it now, the crazy hatred of everything Russian. It will dissipate, many will be sorry, many will profusely apologize – it often takes 3-4 years to calm down. With the looming loss in the war it could be faster…in Kharkov likely this year. Of course the exiles begging for goodies in the West will show the proper hatred longer – they get paid to do it, so why not?

    some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.

    Let’s have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas…
    If they are kept to 20-30% it is a small win.
    Around 15-20% is a draw…like status quo now, but frozen in place.
    If they dip under 15% it is a loss – if they lose Donbas and a part of Crimea, a big loss.
    For Kharkov and Odessa each side gets bonus points – let’s say a 5% markup.

    If Ukieland joins EU in the next 2-3 years Kiev wins, if they are promised more than 10 years (that means never) it is a loss. Nato is obvious – if there is no formal Nato or bases in no matter how small truncated Ukraine it is a loss. If there is, it is a loss for Russia.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022. Russia had $1.8 billion and it dropped by 3% in 2022 – right, an order of magnitude difference. For 2023 IMF predicts 0.3% growth in Russia – better than Germany or UK. For Ukraine nobody knows. I suggest the benchmark is GNP/capita (PPP, adjusted for prices). If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies’s GNP/capita, they win – if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.

    Are you willing to go for it? I will stick around to evaluate the results. (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn “Nazis-sympthizers”…:)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn “Nazis-sympthizers”…:)
     
    https://previews.123rf.com/images/studiostoks/studiostoks1604/studiostoks160400258/55726358-boss-businessmen-trainer-at-the-circus-pop-art-retro-style-the-business-concept-of-the-circus-and-te.jpg

    "Beckow the Benevolent" using a padded whip to keep his unruly servants in line - Marx and Lenin be damned! :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    "Poles are our brothers."

    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal…not exactly brotherly behaviour.
     
    Fratricidal wars can be brutal. Remember when German Protestants an Catholics were killing each other?

    Bot Volyn was 80 years ago. Long before that, Ukrainians and Poles together burned Moscow. And defeated the Ottoman Empire:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khotyn_(1621)

    Russians and their lackeys - you - desperately bring up Volyn because you are motivated to divide Ukrainians an Poles. Understandably so.

    But more recently, as Russians have been murdering Ukrainians, Poland had provided shelter to million of its Ukrainians sisters and children.

    Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.
     
    Nothing infantile or awkward about brotherhood. You just wouldn't understand it, you only understand servitude.

    Polish Cardinal Dziwisz:

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2022-03/poland-dziwisz-krakow-ukrainian-refugees-nuns.html

    “A great solidarity has been created in an unexpected show of fraternity that treats Ukrainians as true brothers,"

    A Polish hero fighting in Ukraine:

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085544653/polands-history-with-russia-has-inspired-some-poles-to-join-the-fight-in-ukraine

    " Part of Ukraine used to be Polish before World War II. So Polish people and Ukrainian, we are like brothers and sisters, like a family."

    Zelensky: "Without a free Ukraine, there can be no free Poland. I know historians often argue about who was the first to say this, who was the author of this phrase. We have resolved this dispute - this is the will of the Ukrainian and Polish nations. Thank you brothers! "

    "De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish."

    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society
     
    No, it is healthy and good for Ukraine to undergo complete de-Russification, as is now progressing nicely, with no brakes.

    But you can’t “purge” ethnicity in 2023 – it would take a genocide or 2-3 generation
     
    It isn't genocide when Russian-speaking Ukrainians take the clean break and switch to their ancestral Ukrainian. Russia has driven many Russian-speaking families to western Ukraine or Poland, where their kids come home from school speaking Ukrainian (Poland has Ukrainian not Russian-speaking schools for the Ukrainian kids). All these kids from Kharkiv and Zaporizhia are coming home from school in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk as Ukrainian-speakers. Even those parents for whom it is hard to make the switch personally, are happy that their children naturally no longer speak the language of the invaders. Russian is no longer seen as the language of Pushkin, but the language of murderous thieves. Even in Russian-speaking Kiev or Kharkiv. (no different from what happened to the perception of the Ukrainian language in Luhansk, as AnoninTN observed).

    Our former host admits as much. The result will be a monoculture. The only question is if this monoculture will extend to the February 2022 territory, to the current line of contact (most likely IMO), or to the Dnipro, or be limited to Galicia plus Volyn. See below the "more" tag.

    People’s emotions are fleeting
     
    Even AnoninTN admits Ukrainians will not forgive Russians for 2-3 generations. He fears that if the war drags on too long it will take 4 generations.

    Let’s have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas…
     
    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.

    A big win for Russia would be if achieves its stated aims: occupies Kiev, establishes a puppet regime, dual-language, demilitarization, etc. This is exactly what you expected to happen last year. And what Putin said the goals were.

    A draw would be if Russia takes all of Zaporizhia and Kherson and Donbas (like the maps they now sell in Moscow), but in exchange the rest of Ukraine stays militarized, is completely de-Russified, and joins the EU.

    Anything between these two would be win for Russia, of varying extent. Such as the above, but Russia takes a destroyed and depopulated Kharkiv too (small win). Or Russia takes Odessa but the rest joins EU, stays militarized, gets de-Russified (bigger win).

    A big win for Ukraine would be return to Feb 2022 borders (plus northern Crimea) plus militarization, EU, de-Russification, etc. I think taking all of Donbas or all of Crimea would be a loss for Ukraine - who needs all those ethnic Russian people? I don't support mass deportation and ethnic cleansing. I am not a Russian.

    Anything between that and the draw - such as if the new border matches the current line of contact - would be a win for Ukraine, provided that Ukraine keeps its army, integrates with/joins the EU, and erases the Russian language and culture from its territory except as a marginal minority one for 5%.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022
     
    About 20% of the population has fled abroad so per capita that is not as extreme of a drop as it seems. Probably a 90% drop in Kherson, 70% in Kharkiv. Lots of businesses have moved to Lviv from Kharkiv, I wonder if there has even been a drop in that province?

    https://ukraine.iom.int/stories/economic-crisis-catalyst-growth-business-kharkiv-takes-roots-lviv

    If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies’s GNP/capita, they win – if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.
     
    Any comparisons should be for at least 1-2 years after the war ends.



    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1622893335370207232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3Apowerfultakes%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c12

    Replies: @Beckow, @QCIC

  801. @216
    Touch these countries and NATO will respond with nuclear weapons.

    It's not complicated, don't even suggest it. And stop going out of your way to alienate the US Right.

    https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1624162354261811200?cxt=HHwWgICz9crDl4otAAAA

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    Touch these countries and NATO will respond with nuclear weapons.

    Err….no they won’t , cretin. Did NATO go to war with Argentina in 1980 when technically British Islands off the Argentine coast were attacked by the (US backed, for sure) Argentine government? No.

    It’s not complicated, don’t even suggest it. And stop going out of your way to alienate the US Right.

    Who wants this collection of fake-right, fake-religious freaks on our side? A Jew is closing down churches in Ukraine (OK thats the appearance of it, but its a whole cabal of different people, including subhuman Banderite american diaspora most likely making this decision)…..and the “Christians” in the rightwing of America have nothing to say or do about it.

  802. @Greasy William
    @Sean

    You make interesting points but I'm not onboard, at least not totally:

    1. Russia's problems so far in this war have absolutely not been because of technology. Russia has struggled mainly because its military mostly sucks. The 1944 British military would have performed better in Ukraine than the contemporary Russian army is, despite the Russians have drastically superior tech.
    2. Ukraine has given no indications that it has any ability to break through fortified, fully manned Russian lines and no amount of ATACAMS will change that
    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate
    4. Russia is not nearly as technologically backwards as you make out. They are much more autarkic than the Soviets were and it wasn't lack of tech that brough the Soviet Union down
    5. It is not clear that Putin's regime would elect to go "down with the ship" in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn't threatened in any way

    Replies: @Sean, @Leaves No Shadow

    It is not clear that Putin’s regime would elect to go “down with the ship” in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn’t threatened in any way

    The Russian generals have already shown that are no cowards by being killed in relatively large numbers on active service in Ukraine. One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world’s most important states In the scenario where Ukraine is winning, and the Russia army is being routed, the Russian leadership and military commanders are likely to agree that the West and Ukraine need so be shown that Russia is not the kind of country that can be treated like that.

    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons), then bad as using a nuke would be for Russia, from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin’s) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option

    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky’ closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties in Ukraine (ie will not be necessary to invade Russia proper.

    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon? There would be uncertainty and fear of further panicking the Kremlin. In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia’s very fragility. An endgame without a Russian rout and resort to desperate measures short of an attack on Nato forces but presenting them with a challenge will be very tricky to avoid because things speed up towards the end, in war as so many things. Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger. Is Nato willing to directly enter conventional combat, limited but nevertheless actual, against Russian forces if Russia gets so desperate it nukes the Ukrainian army? I cannot see that happening.

    • Agree: A123
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sean


    One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world’s most important states
     
    Right, this is probably true. But I've also heard that the Russian officers have a code of honor, based on which they will not use a nuke. But I may be wrong, and not all of them may follow it, obviously.

    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used. Russia doesn't have the means, the economy nor the necessary troops / equipment to fight a nuclear war (as I already mentioned to you, how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained? You responded by saying it would be some "hybrid gesture", just a blast, which I do understand, but you're saying this as if raising the stakes so high would not affect Russia herself at all).


    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons)
     
    There is a possibility that Russia will fight fiercely now and February will be very tough for both sides, but they will wear themselves out by April, May. At that point, Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there (Crimea is a pocket by definition).

    (Please, do not hit the Lastochkino Gnezdo!!) 😢


    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up
     
    These are the kinds of consequences that one should consider BEFORE one issues an ultimatum to the whole West (and then starts doing things that haven't been done since 1945).

    from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin’s) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option
     
    It will depend on how the Russian Deep state feels. If Putin ends up being the only problem, who goes against their interests, they will remove him. I know you're arguing that the Deep State is patriotic, yes, but they also care about their wellbeing. Maybe they don't want to go down in flames.

    Btw, it seems there is some spat going on between Putin and Patrushev (it appears to be over Patrushev's son, but maybe something more). If Patrushev is thinking about the future career of his son, then surely he may be against a nuclear war, even a limited one.


    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?
     
    At that point, when the stakes are raised that high, it won't be just about the US. Both China and India have explicitly said "No nukes". China is even against any talk about using nukes. Russia is now dependent economically on those countries so Russia should care about how this could be perceived by those countries.

    In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia’s very fragility.
     
    This is an interesting aspect, but remember that Russia's fragility is a huge risk to Russia herself (and the Russian population).

    Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger.
     
    Ukraine is not "winning comfortably" but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of "extreme instability and danger" Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.

    Btw, you are using this "nuclear scenario" so much that it's starting to look like some intellectual nuclear fetishism. No offense.

    Replies: @A123, @Sean

  803. @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack

    LMAO - isn't it highly insensitive of you, when 404 is experiencing total destruction, to be talking about tennis - when I can't recall either the ATP or WTA going anywhere near Kiev or anywhere in 404 for any tennis tournament. EVER? The concept of professional tennis tournaments are anti-Ukraine, anti-"Ukrainian" culture and anti-"Ukrainian" state you disrespectful POS.

    Actually the same principle for the music world. All the major pop/rock music performers/bands have come to Moscow and SP. Most of the corrupt ukronazi elite and their kids have travelled into Russia to attend theseconcerts. Kiev and the rest have been avoided like the plague ( as in everything else) apart from one shit Festival with reject performers. On the rare occasions that groups like Muse or Genesis have come to 404 - it has been from Russian producer of that part of the tour doing Kiev, Moscow and SP. Important to note this pitiful reject area did not show any positive increase in tour dates after 2014.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think Mr. G is simply trying to help the Ukrainians reach emotional rock bottom as soon as possible. This may aid their catharsis and rebirth once the SMO is completed.

    Hey, it's a theory...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

     

    Russia did not redeploy from Kiev until immediately AFTER Izium was initially liberated and Mariupol was effectively fully controlled you cretin. I.e - Azov coastline and landbridge to Crimea , something the Ukronazis and Americans had spent billions of dollars and millions of hours in manpower trying to prevent happening for 8 years and a key objective of the SMO ,was completed.
    After Izium capture, this lead to the next stage of Lugansk was fully liberated, and grinding down ukronazi forces and weaponry in Donetsk region in one of the most fortified areas on the planet continues for Russia


    There was next to zero bombing raids or targeted strikes on south Kiev or surrounding regions Cherkassy and Poltava. With millions fleeing west from the city, Russia surrounding the North of Kiev - why would Russia leave resupply of the city from the south to go freely if they were serious about taking the city you idiot?


    Ukronazi's even invented the complete FAKE about attempted landing at Vasilkov Air base, and laughable "we shot down 2 Il-76's" trying to land there. All to try to promote the fake story of trying to take control of Kiev by seizing that base in addition to Gostomel.

    In reality the feint and the time-consuming transfer or fissionable material away from Chernobyl (and whatever was at Gostomel) were the primary objectives of the Northern operations - and succeeded of course.

    The exact moment Mariupol and Izium liberation is a certainty is the exact moment Kiev "retreat" is announced - only a serious moron thinks of this as a "co-incidence"? Notice how the redeployment back via Belarus, have a rest , then go back to Donbass faced next to ZERO opposition. Where are the POW's captured from this "failed" offensive and retreat through 100's of kms back to Belarus? Goodwill gesture from the Ukronazi's ? LOL

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  804. @Greasy William
    @Sean

    You make interesting points but I'm not onboard, at least not totally:

    1. Russia's problems so far in this war have absolutely not been because of technology. Russia has struggled mainly because its military mostly sucks. The 1944 British military would have performed better in Ukraine than the contemporary Russian army is, despite the Russians have drastically superior tech.
    2. Ukraine has given no indications that it has any ability to break through fortified, fully manned Russian lines and no amount of ATACAMS will change that
    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate
    4. Russia is not nearly as technologically backwards as you make out. They are much more autarkic than the Soviets were and it wasn't lack of tech that brough the Soviet Union down
    5. It is not clear that Putin's regime would elect to go "down with the ship" in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn't threatened in any way

    Replies: @Sean, @Leaves No Shadow

    3. The RAND article shows that the US anticipates a battlefield stalemate

    No, it doesn’t. It suggests that as an option. The summaries from pro-Putin “analysts” were bizarre and showed a level of comprehension skills below that which you might expect from a mediocre 10 year old.

  805. @songbird
    @A123

    Biden seemed unnaturally sharp when he denounced trannies:
    https://twitter.com/FireBirdPrints/status/1620659650336268290?s=20&t=dAWe_pw8hjvX57sv1Wsxsw

    But, in all seriousness, I do wonder what the implications of this AI voice mimicry are, just when considering politicians.

    Will they correct the gaffes in the broadcasts, using only a ten second delay?

    Can Trump become an immortal troll? Riling the feathers of the woke forever? With a sharper wit than he ever had at this or any age? Can Bush and some of the other RINOs be made based? Would it even have a good effect to turn them into trolls?

    If heads of state can be made into avatars, could not the reverse be true? Mostly, they seem to just be figureheads - perhaps, AIs could do that better.

    Replies: @A123

    But, in all seriousness, I do wonder what the implications of this AI voice mimicry are, just when considering politicians.

    Will they correct the gaffes in the broadcasts, using only a ten second delay?

    Even if real time AI fakery becomes technically achievable, it can only be used in limited circumstances. Almost all Presidential speeches are given to groups where members have smart phones recording to capture their 15 minutes of fame.

    Creating simulacra of dead leaders and giving them the semblance of life via AI rather than voodoo? That is a plausible use case. Most politicians are teleprompter reading drones. They have so little personality, the virtual version would likely out perform the original.

    Trump would be very difficult to simulate. Spontaneity, originality, and sincere passion for America would be heavy lifts for a soulless machine. Also, simply being alive creates fear, panic, and outrage among low-IQ yahoos and other #NeverTrump fanatics. No matter convincing the simulation, TrumpAI is not going to be as effective. Until……

    The game changer will be when a known AI can run for office. Under current rules, if an AI gains sentience on U.S. soil, the new “living person” will automatically become a full citizen. Imagine a not too distant future:

    ===================================
                            TrumpAI v2.0
                        becomes President.
                   His VP is TrumpAI v2.1.1.
        All future Presidents will be TrumpAI.
    It will be the next golden age for mankind.
    ===================================

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: songbird
  806. @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles are our brothers.
     
    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal...not exactly brotherly behaviour. You are like two drunks, both falling down, yelling a lot, trying to use each other to stay afloat. Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.

    De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish.
     
    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society. But you can't "purge" ethnicity in 2023 - it would take a genocide or 2-3 generations. You don't have 2-3 generations, so I am assuming your fellow Ukie fanatics are openly planning a genocide. That tends to backfire on the weaker party - plus you will embarrass your Euro managers - the overlords in Washington don't care, what is a genocide if it is done by friends? right?

    People's emotions are fleeting; massive hatred is a form of mass psychosis - too many Ukies and Poles suffer from it now, the crazy hatred of everything Russian. It will dissipate, many will be sorry, many will profusely apologize - it often takes 3-4 years to calm down. With the looming loss in the war it could be faster...in Kharkov likely this year. Of course the exiles begging for goodies in the West will show the proper hatred longer - they get paid to do it, so why not?


    some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.
     
    Let's have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas...
    If they are kept to 20-30% it is a small win.
    Around 15-20% is a draw...like status quo now, but frozen in place.
    If they dip under 15% it is a loss - if they lose Donbas and a part of Crimea, a big loss.
    For Kharkov and Odessa each side gets bonus points - let's say a 5% markup.

    If Ukieland joins EU in the next 2-3 years Kiev wins, if they are promised more than 10 years (that means never) it is a loss. Nato is obvious - if there is no formal Nato or bases in no matter how small truncated Ukraine it is a loss. If there is, it is a loss for Russia.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022. Russia had $1.8 billion and it dropped by 3% in 2022 - right, an order of magnitude difference. For 2023 IMF predicts 0.3% growth in Russia - better than Germany or UK. For Ukraine nobody knows. I suggest the benchmark is GNP/capita (PPP, adjusted for prices). If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies's GNP/capita, they win - if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.

    Are you willing to go for it? I will stick around to evaluate the results. (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn "Nazis-sympthizers"...:)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn “Nazis-sympthizers”…:)

    “Beckow the Benevolent” using a padded whip to keep his unruly servants in line – Marx and Lenin be damned! 🙂

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    I like the girl, nice...i am benevolent (and skinny), uber-capitalism, isn't that what you hamburger-chewers like?

    Ukies work for 1/3 of the others, are deferential, no labor complaints or unions, they only want to be allowed to stay...like babies, really...Find a cartoon with kids digging for coal (19th century England will do) with the pathos of human fear and gratitude, lack of self-respect and total self-denial. Those are the Ukies. Good workers, though...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  807. @Sean
    @A123

    A "units along the border" stance by Russia was politico military pressure, yet unconvincing as a threat because they would be outnumbered four to one on the ground and even more in the air if they crossed that border in an actual offensive Far forward and stationary mobile units are sitting ducks for surprise attack so the Russian posture was sabre rattling, not defensive, as can be seen in Belarus right now. The present conflict between Russia and US led Nato is political/ hybrid.

    As I recall important US officials considered the electoral advances of the Italian Communist Party in the 70s/80s as a threat to Western security, so I expect that Putin is threatened by democracy in Ukraine heartening his Russian opponents and in a time of crisis contributing to by a colour revolution example. However, the simple fact is that Russia's accelerating relative technological backwardness means that in the future its going to become increasingly helpless in any real war, and any sabre rattling it does will be risible.

    Putin has foreseen this (his Munich Security Conference speech about the prospect of the US developing a complete defence to ICBMs and becoming the sole centre of international decision making), therefore he understands that US Patriot and anti ICBM bases on Russia's borders are bringing forward the day when Russian inferiority is so complete that no one pays any attention to what the Kremlin says. Holding back that day is Putin's job as leader of Russia.


    Can't have it both ways, either Russia is heading for defeat or nukes are going to be completely redundant for anything Putin wants to do in Ukraine In the doctrine of the US and as well as RusFed the purpose of nuclear weapons is to halt an enemy's successful conventional offensive, and the US is not giving Ukraine many conventional weapons such as ATACEMs even though Ukraine is completely dependent on US supply of the coordinates for HIMARS and would be for ATACMS too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC1_lpy8TVE That speaks for itself about the US worry that sudden reverses for Putin could lead to him seriously considering the option. At present he thinks he is winning, the US want to keep him oblivious to what is happening, but eventually he will realise he's going to lose. Is he going to have to accept that?

    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin's standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky' closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties. Some people' scoff at nukes being an option for the Kremlin . One of those is Vad, former brigadier and German military advisor to Merkel, who is now predicting an inevitable Russian defeat by Western technology in Ukraine and a quite possible decision to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine rather than quietly leaving the global power stage. Russian is going to try all sorts of things before it gets to that point so it is not going to happen tomorrow, but unless the US backs down of Ukraine becomes much less effective I think Putin will face a very hard decision by the end of the year. He is going to be in a vindictive mood when making it.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @A123

    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin’s standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up.

    That is rather what I was getting at. Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin’s choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So…. What is the Kiev regime’s strategy?

    If they are trying what Zelensky states, it is madness not a plan. They can either lose on the ground or wind up being enthusiastically nuked. The only path to survival is negotiating something that Russia will accept. The Ukie Maximalists are irrational. They demand the unobtainable. Things will continue to get worse until the Ukrainian people dump the EU puppet currently in charge.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.

    We can argue about their bombing capability in the far West of the country, but there has never been any Ukrainian defense capable of preventing Russia from bombing an Eastern city such as Kharkov down to rubble. This is not their plan, but I think they might try it before going nuclear. Russians kind of like Kharkov, so maybe they would start farther West.

    Replies: @A123

  808. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn “Nazis-sympthizers”…:)
     
    https://previews.123rf.com/images/studiostoks/studiostoks1604/studiostoks160400258/55726358-boss-businessmen-trainer-at-the-circus-pop-art-retro-style-the-business-concept-of-the-circus-and-te.jpg

    "Beckow the Benevolent" using a padded whip to keep his unruly servants in line - Marx and Lenin be damned! :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

    I like the girl, nice…i am benevolent (and skinny), uber-capitalism, isn’t that what you hamburger-chewers like?

    Ukies work for 1/3 of the others, are deferential, no labor complaints or unions, they only want to be allowed to stay…like babies, really…Find a cartoon with kids digging for coal (19th century England will do) with the pathos of human fear and gratitude, lack of self-respect and total self-denial. Those are the Ukies. Good workers, though…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    I like the girl, nice…
     
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16746/production/_104147919_pornaddict5.jpg

    Yep, it only makes sense that our very own "skinny" Beckow ges turned on by female body images displayed through the privacy of the internet (I think that they call that porn addiction). :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

  809. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins
     
    I haven’t read those, unfortunately. Here is Pelevin in 2017, about a Russian writer (Prilepin) who joined the Donbas rebels:

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/188861-Russian-writer-sparks-war-of-words-by-joining-Ukraine-rebels

    “When your books are shit, you have to earn money from terrorism."

    Have you read Bykov’s book Ж/Д? What did you think? It had Khazars and Varangians fighting over Russia.

    This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people
     
    When I compared Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature this can be expressed physically, for humans in the real world it is more internal. In daily life, interpersonally, Russians are typically kind, decent, nice. They are the same Slavs as Poles or Ukrainians, they are not aliens as Germans can be. The twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod, who for the most part obeyed the German interloper Catherine as she enserfsd them more and more, who cherish and worship Stalin, who support this destructive invasion of Ukraine. They need their Khan. Politically and collectively they are the renegades of the Slavs, the Slav-killers.

    One of the greatest historical tragedies, comparable to the destruction of Byzantium, the Arab conquest of Persia, the Reformation, the Revolution, the world wars, was the failed Union of Rzeczpospolita and Muscovy that would have saved Russia from Eurasia.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Philip Owen

    Hatred, especially when justified, is an intoxicating emotion. It alters the perception and leads to warped worldview. I personally doing my possible to learn haiting none. It’s not an easy lesson.

    3. “He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.” Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. “He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.” Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

    Be well.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkb7vYZp8U&ab_channel=timelinesTV


    They divided us into two camps, the blue and the red. One to attack. And one to defend.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    , @Greasy William
    @Ivashka the fool

    The big mistake in our culture regarding hatred is that hatred is seen as something immoral. I always dismissed that because I never had any desire to be moral to people who I felt had wronged me (and the list of such people was VERY long in my case). But what I eventually came to see was that me hating people, no matter how ostensibly "justified", only hurt me.

    When someone wrongs you, for you to respond by hating them makes as much sense as for you to respond by smashing your own hand with a hammer. All you are doing is causing yourself initial pain and getting nothing out of it. If you are hating, you are suffering. On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    Replies: @Yahya, @QCIC, @LatW

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I hope my comment did not come across as hateful. It is not with hatred that I describe Russians as having been twisted in terms of their political culture and relation to power. Hatred is of course a harmful emotion. Anger on the other hand can be very useful in limited doses.

    I haven't had love ones or neighbors die in this war (as is the case for many in Ukraine) nor has my life or that of loved ones been placed in danger at the hands of Russians, so I don't have a visceral hatred of Russia or Russians. I wish Russia didn't invade and don't rejoice at the deaths of Russian soldiers, but better those invaders die than our people, being invaded. I'm still in touch with friends in Moscow, some of whom support the war (one is a retired general's daughter, can't blame her for supporting her military; for her its about geopolitics, she doesn't believe bullshit about Nazis or NATO missiles like some morons here do). But my cousins in Ukraine have cut all ties. One of my cousins was even a strong Russophile after Maidan - we Ukrainians and Russians are one people, Ukrainians used to call themselves Rus, she would tell me. After her city east of the Dnipro was bombed and numerous civilians killed for nu reason she refers to Russians as inhuman (neliudy). It would be very hard to be in Ukraine and to not be be hateful towards Russians. This hatred will permanently separate the two peoples, which in the long run is probably a good thing, Ukraine has not done well when united with Russia. Let the Russians keep their Peters, Catherines, Lenins and Stalins to themselves, please. After the hatred passes into indifference, the boundary will be strong and taken for granted. But there is some good in addition to the evil - Ukrainians have reunited with their Polish brothers. Let that bond grow stronger.

    You didn't answer if you had a chance to read the Bykov novel (I am genuinely curious about your impression, if you have done so).

    Replies: @216, @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

  810. @A123
    @Sean


    Bad as using a nuke would be for Russia any alternative would be far worse from Putin’s standpoint because it would (1) entail RusFeda being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2) lead to RusFed breaking up.
     
    That is rather what I was getting at. Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin's choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So.... What is the Kiev regime's strategy?

    If they are trying what Zelensky states, it is madness not a plan. They can either lose on the ground or wind up being enthusiastically nuked. The only path to survival is negotiating something that Russia will accept. The Ukie Maximalists are irrational. They demand the unobtainable. Things will continue to get worse until the Ukrainian people dump the EU puppet currently in charge.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.

    We can argue about their bombing capability in the far West of the country, but there has never been any Ukrainian defense capable of preventing Russia from bombing an Eastern city such as Kharkov down to rubble. This is not their plan, but I think they might try it before going nuclear. Russians kind of like Kharkov, so maybe they would start farther West.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC



    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin’s choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So…. What is the Kiev regime’s strategy?
     

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.
     
    The purpose of hypothetical was to shine a light on Kiev regime policy. Not an expression of that scenario's likelihood.

    Can you explain how Kiev can win? Or, Zelensky's strategy?


    We can argue about their bombing capability
     
    There is no need for such a crude and expensive technique. Time is on Putin's side.

    Do you member the U.S. House floor fight over the Speakership a few weeks ago? Do you remember who forced McCarthy to make massive concessions? He's Back! (1)


    Gaetz Files 'Ukraine Fatigue Resolution' To Stop Funding Proxy War

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) filed a resolution on Thursday to end all US aid to Ukraine for war with Russia, while at the same time seeking a peace settlement between the two nations.

     

    "Joe Biden, and even some who have taken this stage, say defending freedom in Ukraine has costs for America," Gaetz said in a speech just two days after Russia invaded Ukraine. "Why should Americans have to pay the costs for freedom elsewhere when our own leaders won’t stand up for our freedom here?"
    ...
    "As the war slogs on in Ukraine, the benefits to Americans are unclear," said Gaetz. "Bandits in the Sinaloa Mountains hurt more Americans than the men in Crimea. But foreigners come to Washington to lecture us about spending our constituents’ money on a conflict thousands of miles away, and my colleagues are eager to oblige."
     
    There is video of his speech in the article.

    Can Gaetz successfully unwind current appropriations rammed through in the lame duck session. Probably not. However, any future grants will be much smaller and fully audited.

    Conclusion -- Zelensky has around 6-9 months of war resources left unless he obtains a massive transfusion of €uros and equipment from EU WEF Elites.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/gaetz-files-ukraine-fatigue-resolution-stop-funding-proxy-war

    Replies: @QCIC

  811. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Hatred, especially when justified, is an intoxicating emotion. It alters the perception and leads to warped worldview. I personally doing my possible to learn haiting none. It's not an easy lesson.


    3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
     
    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

    Be well.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Greasy William, @AP

    They divided us into two camps, the blue and the red. One to attack. And one to defend.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution https://g.co/kgs/QfWPK1

    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx

    America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones https://g.co/kgs/R22eCq

    When something works fine, no need to change the approach.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I'm not sure just how developed Beckow's fondness for video images of little girls (and little boys?) goes, but don't be surprised if he gives you a big "THANKS" for you posting this video clip. He might get really turned on by the little boys wearing swastika insignias within the clip. It's rumored that he's involved in a myriad of disgusting lurid acts with the children of the austerbeiters, while the parents are off working in the vast fields of Herr Beckow's latifundia. His encampment sounds like its actually a magnet to attract these sorts of poor individuals. One can only hope that it's not some sort of a Brian Epstein type of "island operation" set-up somewhere in the mountainous regions of Slovakia?

    https://www.hungarianottomanwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Beckovske_farby_Rudo-Mlich.jpg
    What's really going on within the high walls of Beckow castle in Upper lands/Horná Zem/Felvidék on the river Vag? Say it aint so, Beckow. :-(

  812. @AP
    @Beckow


    “surprising number…”

    A good summary of your thinking. You can surprisingly convince yourself about unlikely stuff
     
    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.

    only 33k dead Ukies, if you say so.
     
    This number intuitively seems rather low, though unlike you, your interlocutor is at least using some reasoning. Too many prominent people (Olympic athletes, artists, etc.) are dying on the battlefield. It could be that these people are particularly patriotic and brave, finding themselves in the worst circumstances. But it suggests high numbers.

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been. So the actual number is probably somewhere in between, our former host guessed around 80k but it was a couple of weeks ago.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Gerard1234

    Must this sociopathic, autistic, fantasist fuckup with severe problems , who goes around with zero life, whoring and being humiliated (but protected by anonymity) on every pro-Russian website ( not Russian language website, of course) be allowed to continuously comment here and on all the other sites with sockpuppet accounts, getting hemorrhoids all day?

    Misdirection against Beckow:

    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.

    Anyway – 137000 is the total of every patriot demilitirising and denazifying 404, from about 111-115 BTG’s ( in itself a fake assumption from 404). Until the end of 2022 , not even close to 137000 Russian/LDNR soldiers have been in combat against ukronazis you idiot.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2022/08/11/7362749/ – 137000, the statement of the Russian taxpayer Ukrainian Defence Minister Reznikov, appointment by the Russian taxpayer “Ukrainian” President Zelensky.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.

    Bimbo idiocy

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been.

    LMAO – a piece of cretinism that makes zero sense in any way. The only thing making ukronazi deathcult still going is the relatively small size of Russian forces in combat, heavily outnumbered – that includes those deployed since the partial mobilisation

    • Replies: @Jazman
    @Gerard1234

    Even anti Putin mediazone claim 14.000 death
    https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/11/casualties_eng

  813. Current Kiev regime counts Bandera as its hero for a good reason. Just like Banderites proudly documented heinous crimes they committed in Volhynia more than 80 years ago, today’s Bandera followers not only commit crimes, but proudly record them and post the records on the web. Recently they posted another proof of their criminality: a video showing them murdering Russian POWs. Even the UN acknowledged that the video is genuine. Western MSM reacted predictably: with deafening silence.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AnonfromTN

    Actually even the New York Times talked about it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/world/europe/russian-soldiers-shot-ukraine.html

    It is horrific, and those involved need to be punished, but it is also easy to understand. Russians invaded their country and Ukrainians are full of uncontainable rage. But don't worry, Russian troops can be safe, by returning to Russia. Easy! So go home!

    , @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN

    The satanic attack on the bridge is even worse from the point of Western informational space complicity.


    1 Exploitation of the grain deal, allowing the Nazis to send the package across the Black Sea, and travel through 3rd-party countries.

    2. Hire a completely unknowing, innocent driver deliver the explosive material, and detonate it on the Kerch Strait bridge..... Murdering 6 innocent civilians including himself

    3. Detonate it just at the start of the elevated approach to the central arch span. I. E still a very long distance from the central span - making it a completely pointless attack because only one short span at low height collapsed- easily replaceable as a temporary replacement span to restore traffic quickly and as a permanent structure in the short term.

    4. causing totally pointless damage because only the rail bridge is a "legitimate" target (transporting military supplies and equipment in bulk only makes advantageous sense if done via rail, with road bridge not particularly more beneficial then crossing in a ship transporting larger volumes anyway) and it suffered only minor damage from second-order effects.

    Have vermin Ukronazi bydlo "celebrate" the attack under the brainwashing aesthetic that it was the arch destroyed LOL ( stopping shipping by destroying the highest, longest and most expensive part of the 2 bridges and killing the bridge for a long time would have been a big thing, instead of this pitiful act of pointless terrorism)- when it's completely what didn't happen. A fake country celebrating a fake event with some sadism thrown in is not surprising.

    6. Having this sickening act of terrorism by these freaks "militarily justified" to kill 5 people - their innocent lives decided by the fact...... it was Putin's birthday! a new chapter on the rules of war. As is using an unknowing civilian
    to d

  814. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

    Replies: @QCIC, @Gerard1234

    I think Mr. G is simply trying to help the Ukrainians reach emotional rock bottom as soon as possible. This may aid their catharsis and rebirth once the SMO is completed.

    Hey, it’s a theory…

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Is that what you were trying to do in September when you claimed that Russia could easily destroy a huge amount of Ukrainian infrastructure, that they have instead completely failed to destroy, and Ukrainians would surrender or "millions would freeze and starve to death"?

    If you'd asked me, I could have told you that missiles are horrendously inefficient and won't do permanent damage, even if, as happened, Russia fired as many as it could produce/spare.

    And I could have told you this because anyone with even a basic amount of professional knowledge would know this, as long as they're not completely biased.

    So why didn't the people you read and listen to inform you? Are they liars, emotional children or intellectually incompetent?

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/all-the-young-dudes-carry-the-russian-news/#comment-5565530

    Replies: @QCIC

  815. What do people think of the zek oligarch stating that Russia has narrowed its horizons to just Donetsk and Luhansk, but will still need at least 2 years for even that?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    And let's be honest, that'd be equal in any actual benefit sense to returning to pre-war lines. An actual possible negotiation position.

    So pro-Putinists, imagine not losing another hundred thousand or whatever soldiers, not having your economy continue to degrade, not having even more of the world turn from you in hatred and disgust, and not being responsible for the murder of even more Ukrainians - as an infinitely black stain on your soul. Wouldn't that be great!

    , @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow


    zek oligarch
     
    Is it just my vivid imagination or in terms of color and facial profile he has the overall looks bit similar to michaeljacksoned older version of original Predator spec-op team member?;)

    https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/predator1-promo-013.jpg


    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i9Odz31BZzZk/v1/1200x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    , @Philip Owen
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Very likely. Taurida is lost once the Storm Shadows are fitted to Ukrainian planes. I'm with Ben Hodges, it's undefendable once Ukraine has the bridge in range.

  816. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    I like the girl, nice...i am benevolent (and skinny), uber-capitalism, isn't that what you hamburger-chewers like?

    Ukies work for 1/3 of the others, are deferential, no labor complaints or unions, they only want to be allowed to stay...like babies, really...Find a cartoon with kids digging for coal (19th century England will do) with the pathos of human fear and gratitude, lack of self-respect and total self-denial. Those are the Ukies. Good workers, though...

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I like the girl, nice…


    Yep, it only makes sense that our very own “skinny” Beckow ges turned on by female body images displayed through the privacy of the internet (I think that they call that porn addiction). 🙂

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You are a strange guy, you may need help with more than your Ukie devotion and your Russophobia. You did mention once that you dont have kids, so I am not surprised.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  817. @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think Mr. G is simply trying to help the Ukrainians reach emotional rock bottom as soon as possible. This may aid their catharsis and rebirth once the SMO is completed.

    Hey, it's a theory...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Is that what you were trying to do in September when you claimed that Russia could easily destroy a huge amount of Ukrainian infrastructure, that they have instead completely failed to destroy, and Ukrainians would surrender or “millions would freeze and starve to death”?

    If you’d asked me, I could have told you that missiles are horrendously inefficient and won’t do permanent damage, even if, as happened, Russia fired as many as it could produce/spare.

    And I could have told you this because anyone with even a basic amount of professional knowledge would know this, as long as they’re not completely biased.

    So why didn’t the people you read and listen to inform you? Are they liars, emotional children or intellectually incompetent?

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/all-the-young-dudes-carry-the-russian-news/#comment-5565530

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    No, at that point I was mostly trying to emphasize that the MSM view of Russian military capability is very slanted and dangerously misleading.

    I stand by the earlier comments, unless I implied anything about the timing which I would now retract. I no longer have any opinion on their schedule. In my view Russia does not want to kill civilians and destroy infrastructure any more than necessary to achieve a Ukrainian capitulation.

    I think missiles are efficient in terms of damaging point targets with limited collateral damage and limited exposure for soldiers. The trade off is they are relatively expensive and therefore are not a replacement for other weapons.

  818. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

    Replies: @QCIC, @Gerard1234

    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

    Russia did not redeploy from Kiev until immediately AFTER Izium was initially liberated and Mariupol was effectively fully controlled you cretin. I.e – Azov coastline and landbridge to Crimea , something the Ukronazis and Americans had spent billions of dollars and millions of hours in manpower trying to prevent happening for 8 years and a key objective of the SMO ,was completed.
    After Izium capture, this lead to the next stage of Lugansk was fully liberated, and grinding down ukronazi forces and weaponry in Donetsk region in one of the most fortified areas on the planet continues for Russia

    There was next to zero bombing raids or targeted strikes on south Kiev or surrounding regions Cherkassy and Poltava. With millions fleeing west from the city, Russia surrounding the North of Kiev – why would Russia leave resupply of the city from the south to go freely if they were serious about taking the city you idiot?

    Ukronazi’s even invented the complete FAKE about attempted landing at Vasilkov Air base, and laughable “we shot down 2 Il-76’s” trying to land there. All to try to promote the fake story of trying to take control of Kiev by seizing that base in addition to Gostomel.

    In reality the feint and the time-consuming transfer or fissionable material away from Chernobyl (and whatever was at Gostomel) were the primary objectives of the Northern operations – and succeeded of course.

    The exact moment Mariupol and Izium liberation is a certainty is the exact moment Kiev “retreat” is announced – only a serious moron thinks of this as a “co-incidence”? Notice how the redeployment back via Belarus, have a rest , then go back to Donbass faced next to ZERO opposition. Where are the POW’s captured from this “failed” offensive and retreat through 100’s of kms back to Belarus? Goodwill gesture from the Ukronazi’s ? LOL

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    I'm glad a lot of the Putinist idiots are like you. It means you'll be able to not only accept if Ukraine takes back Crimea and Russia sues for peace, but you'll even celebrate it as a victory! Probably with every defeat spun as a "feint" to protect Moscow from the awful Nazi menace.

    Winning!

    Honestly, I feel bad even teasing you about it, as your utter stupidity will be a key ingredient on the peace that eventually comes.

    But please, at the back of your mind, remember what a terrifically cultured Russian lady of my acquaintance said: "Putin has destroyed Russia." She was born in China prior to Mao taking over because her family administrated the completion of the Trans-Siberian railway, and Putin has seen China leapfrog Russia in development. I feel so much for her. She is a great person and keeps the local Russian Orthodox church running, but the Russians in charge of Russia aren't worthy of people like her. That's just a plain fact.

  819. @AnonfromTN
    Current Kiev regime counts Bandera as its hero for a good reason. Just like Banderites proudly documented heinous crimes they committed in Volhynia more than 80 years ago, today’s Bandera followers not only commit crimes, but proudly record them and post the records on the web. Recently they posted another proof of their criminality: a video showing them murdering Russian POWs. Even the UN acknowledged that the video is genuine. Western MSM reacted predictably: with deafening silence.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Gerard1234

    Actually even the New York Times talked about it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/20/world/europe/russian-soldiers-shot-ukraine.html

    It is horrific, and those involved need to be punished, but it is also easy to understand. Russians invaded their country and Ukrainians are full of uncontainable rage. But don’t worry, Russian troops can be safe, by returning to Russia. Easy! So go home!

  820. @QCIC
    @A123

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.

    We can argue about their bombing capability in the far West of the country, but there has never been any Ukrainian defense capable of preventing Russia from bombing an Eastern city such as Kharkov down to rubble. This is not their plan, but I think they might try it before going nuclear. Russians kind of like Kharkov, so maybe they would start farther West.

    Replies: @A123

    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin’s choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So…. What is the Kiev regime’s strategy?

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.

    The purpose of hypothetical was to shine a light on Kiev regime policy. Not an expression of that scenario’s likelihood.

    Can you explain how Kiev can win? Or, Zelensky’s strategy?

    We can argue about their bombing capability

    There is no need for such a crude and expensive technique. Time is on Putin’s side.

    Do you member the U.S. House floor fight over the Speakership a few weeks ago? Do you remember who forced McCarthy to make massive concessions? He’s Back! (1)

    Gaetz Files ‘Ukraine Fatigue Resolution’ To Stop Funding Proxy War

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) filed a resolution on Thursday to end all US aid to Ukraine for war with Russia, while at the same time seeking a peace settlement between the two nations.

    “Joe Biden, and even some who have taken this stage, say defending freedom in Ukraine has costs for America,” Gaetz said in a speech just two days after Russia invaded Ukraine. “Why should Americans have to pay the costs for freedom elsewhere when our own leaders won’t stand up for our freedom here?”

    “As the war slogs on in Ukraine, the benefits to Americans are unclear,” said Gaetz. “Bandits in the Sinaloa Mountains hurt more Americans than the men in Crimea. But foreigners come to Washington to lecture us about spending our constituents’ money on a conflict thousands of miles away, and my colleagues are eager to oblige.”

    There is video of his speech in the article.

    Can Gaetz successfully unwind current appropriations rammed through in the lame duck session. Probably not. However, any future grants will be much smaller and fully audited.

    Conclusion — Zelensky has around 6-9 months of war resources left unless he obtains a massive transfusion of €uros and equipment from EU WEF Elites.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/gaetz-files-ukraine-fatigue-resolution-stop-funding-proxy-war

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    Bombing is cheap, but the rebuilding is expensive.

    I think the only way Kiev can "win" would be as a result of a behind-the-scenes power struggle in Russia. I don't think they have a chance in a stand up fight against the Russian military, even though Russia still has one hand tied behind her back.

    Saying "Zelensky's Strategy" is like saying 'Biden's strategy'; I wish someone would identify and start framing the discussion in terms of the real movers. I believe clown has even less agency than Biden.

    I try not to keep up with politics since it is pointlessly depressing. I wondered about the hullabaloo over McCarthy until I eventually concluded they are playing the odds on Joe and Kamala bailing out before things are over.

    Replies: @216

  821. @Beckow
    @AP


    Poles are our brothers.
     
    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal...not exactly brotherly behaviour. You are like two drunks, both falling down, yelling a lot, trying to use each other to stay afloat. Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.

    De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish.
     
    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society. But you can't "purge" ethnicity in 2023 - it would take a genocide or 2-3 generations. You don't have 2-3 generations, so I am assuming your fellow Ukie fanatics are openly planning a genocide. That tends to backfire on the weaker party - plus you will embarrass your Euro managers - the overlords in Washington don't care, what is a genocide if it is done by friends? right?

    People's emotions are fleeting; massive hatred is a form of mass psychosis - too many Ukies and Poles suffer from it now, the crazy hatred of everything Russian. It will dissipate, many will be sorry, many will profusely apologize - it often takes 3-4 years to calm down. With the looming loss in the war it could be faster...in Kharkov likely this year. Of course the exiles begging for goodies in the West will show the proper hatred longer - they get paid to do it, so why not?


    some valuable agricultural land along the Azov Sea.
     
    Let's have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas...
    If they are kept to 20-30% it is a small win.
    Around 15-20% is a draw...like status quo now, but frozen in place.
    If they dip under 15% it is a loss - if they lose Donbas and a part of Crimea, a big loss.
    For Kharkov and Odessa each side gets bonus points - let's say a 5% markup.

    If Ukieland joins EU in the next 2-3 years Kiev wins, if they are promised more than 10 years (that means never) it is a loss. Nato is obvious - if there is no formal Nato or bases in no matter how small truncated Ukraine it is a loss. If there is, it is a loss for Russia.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022. Russia had $1.8 billion and it dropped by 3% in 2022 - right, an order of magnitude difference. For 2023 IMF predicts 0.3% growth in Russia - better than Germany or UK. For Ukraine nobody knows. I suggest the benchmark is GNP/capita (PPP, adjusted for prices). If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies's GNP/capita, they win - if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.

    Are you willing to go for it? I will stick around to evaluate the results. (I will use my French, German, Polish and Ukie servants to do the work in the meantime, they are very eager, damn "Nazis-sympthizers"...:)

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    “Poles are our brothers.”

    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal…not exactly brotherly behaviour.

    Fratricidal wars can be brutal. Remember when German Protestants an Catholics were killing each other?

    Bot Volyn was 80 years ago. Long before that, Ukrainians and Poles together burned Moscow. And defeated the Ottoman Empire:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khotyn_(1621)

    Russians and their lackeys – you – desperately bring up Volyn because you are motivated to divide Ukrainians an Poles. Understandably so.

    But more recently, as Russians have been murdering Ukrainians, Poland had provided shelter to million of its Ukrainians sisters and children.

    Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.

    Nothing infantile or awkward about brotherhood. You just wouldn’t understand it, you only understand servitude.

    Polish Cardinal Dziwisz:

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2022-03/poland-dziwisz-krakow-ukrainian-refugees-nuns.html

    “A great solidarity has been created in an unexpected show of fraternity that treats Ukrainians as true brothers,”

    A Polish hero fighting in Ukraine:

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085544653/polands-history-with-russia-has-inspired-some-poles-to-join-the-fight-in-ukraine

    ” Part of Ukraine used to be Polish before World War II. So Polish people and Ukrainian, we are like brothers and sisters, like a family.”

    Zelensky: “Without a free Ukraine, there can be no free Poland. I know historians often argue about who was the first to say this, who was the author of this phrase. We have resolved this dispute – this is the will of the Ukrainian and Polish nations. Thank you brothers! ”

    “De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish.”

    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society

    No, it is healthy and good for Ukraine to undergo complete de-Russification, as is now progressing nicely, with no brakes.

    But you can’t “purge” ethnicity in 2023 – it would take a genocide or 2-3 generation

    It isn’t genocide when Russian-speaking Ukrainians take the clean break and switch to their ancestral Ukrainian. Russia has driven many Russian-speaking families to western Ukraine or Poland, where their kids come home from school speaking Ukrainian (Poland has Ukrainian not Russian-speaking schools for the Ukrainian kids). All these kids from Kharkiv and Zaporizhia are coming home from school in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk as Ukrainian-speakers. Even those parents for whom it is hard to make the switch personally, are happy that their children naturally no longer speak the language of the invaders. Russian is no longer seen as the language of Pushkin, but the language of murderous thieves. Even in Russian-speaking Kiev or Kharkiv. (no different from what happened to the perception of the Ukrainian language in Luhansk, as AnoninTN observed).

    Our former host admits as much. The result will be a monoculture. The only question is if this monoculture will extend to the February 2022 territory, to the current line of contact (most likely IMO), or to the Dnipro, or be limited to Galicia plus Volyn. See below the “more” tag.

    People’s emotions are fleeting

    Even AnoninTN admits Ukrainians will not forgive Russians for 2-3 generations. He fears that if the war drags on too long it will take 4 generations.

    Let’s have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas…

    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.

    A big win for Russia would be if achieves its stated aims: occupies Kiev, establishes a puppet regime, dual-language, demilitarization, etc. This is exactly what you expected to happen last year. And what Putin said the goals were.

    A draw would be if Russia takes all of Zaporizhia and Kherson and Donbas (like the maps they now sell in Moscow), but in exchange the rest of Ukraine stays militarized, is completely de-Russified, and joins the EU.

    Anything between these two would be win for Russia, of varying extent. Such as the above, but Russia takes a destroyed and depopulated Kharkiv too (small win). Or Russia takes Odessa but the rest joins EU, stays militarized, gets de-Russified (bigger win).

    A big win for Ukraine would be return to Feb 2022 borders (plus northern Crimea) plus militarization, EU, de-Russification, etc. I think taking all of Donbas or all of Crimea would be a loss for Ukraine – who needs all those ethnic Russian people? I don’t support mass deportation and ethnic cleansing. I am not a Russian.

    Anything between that and the draw – such as if the new border matches the current line of contact – would be a win for Ukraine, provided that Ukraine keeps its army, integrates with/joins the EU, and erases the Russian language and culture from its territory except as a marginal minority one for 5%.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022

    About 20% of the population has fled abroad so per capita that is not as extreme of a drop as it seems. Probably a 90% drop in Kherson, 70% in Kharkiv. Lots of businesses have moved to Lviv from Kharkiv, I wonder if there has even been a drop in that province?

    https://ukraine.iom.int/stories/economic-crisis-catalyst-growth-business-kharkiv-takes-roots-lviv

    If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies’s GNP/capita, they win – if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.

    Any comparisons should be for at least 1-2 years after the war ends.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?
     
    No, I don't - it was in 17th century....Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people. You can pretend that it is nothing, but the memories are there. Watch the movie, most Poles have. And Bandera bands were the worst enemy in Poland in 1945-7, the ones caught were killed. So enjoy your 'brotherhood', but to outsiders it looks odd.

    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.
     
    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a 'total win' for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, 'de-nazifying' Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means - it looks like a slogan, not a goal). The demilitarization would automatically come with it. My view is that a 'total win' would backfire in the long run - it wouldn't be sustainable. So I am not sure Russia ever wanted it, they seem fairly level-headed about what can be done in the long run.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for? I don't share your optimism about Galicia+ - regions close to potential military conflict don't get investments. That is likely if there is a sharp dividing line. It is like real estate in a bad neighborhood permanently less valued.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine - today they are not. If they stay out Russia wins, if they come back it would be a loss - although if they are further away w no access to Black Sea it would still put Russia in a better position than they were in 2021.

    Replies: @AP

    , @QCIC
    @AP

    I think anything less than repatriating everything East of the Dnepr and across to Odessa along the coast is a failure for Russia. Kiev will be included somehow. I don't believe Crimea will ever be grabbed by Ukraine short of a WW3 scenario. I think anyone who brings it up is either foolish or a bloodthirsty monster.

    The disposition of Ukrainian territory West of the River is a more interesting question. I don't know enough to speculate very much. Since the Russians don't see the West as agreement or treaty capable it puts serious pressure on them to turn Western Ukraine into a large demilitarized buffer zone.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  822. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkb7vYZp8U&ab_channel=timelinesTV


    They divided us into two camps, the blue and the red. One to attack. And one to defend.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution https://g.co/kgs/QfWPK1

    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx

    America’s Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones https://g.co/kgs/R22eCq

    When something works fine, no need to change the approach.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx
     
    I’ve read this book on account of your recommendation.

    Sutton presented some interesting facts; but his conclusions were of varied quality.

    The strongest chapters were on the Dawes Plan; and the formation of I.G. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke.

    Weakest chapter was on Henry Ford; Sutton was clutching on straws.

    His assertion that American firms were instrumental in giving rise to Hitler is reasonable; but ultimately exaggerated.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

  823. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Hatred, especially when justified, is an intoxicating emotion. It alters the perception and leads to warped worldview. I personally doing my possible to learn haiting none. It's not an easy lesson.


    3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
     
    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

    Be well.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Greasy William, @AP

    The big mistake in our culture regarding hatred is that hatred is seen as something immoral. I always dismissed that because I never had any desire to be moral to people who I felt had wronged me (and the list of such people was VERY long in my case). But what I eventually came to see was that me hating people, no matter how ostensibly “justified”, only hurt me.

    When someone wrongs you, for you to respond by hating them makes as much sense as for you to respond by smashing your own hand with a hammer. All you are doing is causing yourself initial pain and getting nothing out of it. If you are hating, you are suffering. On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Greasy William

    But O! revenge is sweet.
    Thus think the crowd; who, eager to engage,
    Take quickly fire, and kindle into rage.
    Not so mild Thales nor Chrysippus thought,
    Nor that good man, who drank the poisonous draught.
    With mind serene; and could not wish to see
    His vile accuser drink as deep as he:
    Exalted Socrates! divinely brave!
    Injur’d he fell, and dying he forgave!
    Too noble for revenge; which still we find
    The weakest frailty of a feeble mind.

    DRYDEN.

    https://www.johnsonessays.com/the-rambler/no-185-the-prohibition-of-revenge-justifiable-by-reason-the-meanness-of-regulating-our-conduct-by-the-opinions-of-men/

    , @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    Are you saying "Don't get mad, get even"?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @LatW
    @Greasy William


    On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

     

    You have to transcend ardent hatred into rationality. Do not wallow in hatred, only use little bits of it to inspire yourself and remind yourself of what has been committed against you. Then transcend the hatred into cold rationality and then action. It's like forging a sword - first, the steel is red, burning hot, but eventually it turns into hard, silvery, cold steel.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  824. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkb7vYZp8U&ab_channel=timelinesTV


    They divided us into two camps, the blue and the red. One to attack. And one to defend.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Mr. Hack

    I’m not sure just how developed Beckow’s fondness for video images of little girls (and little boys?) goes, but don’t be surprised if he gives you a big “THANKS” for you posting this video clip. He might get really turned on by the little boys wearing swastika insignias within the clip. It’s rumored that he’s involved in a myriad of disgusting lurid acts with the children of the austerbeiters, while the parents are off working in the vast fields of Herr Beckow’s latifundia. His encampment sounds like its actually a magnet to attract these sorts of poor individuals. One can only hope that it’s not some sort of a Brian Epstein type of “island operation” set-up somewhere in the mountainous regions of Slovakia?


    What’s really going on within the high walls of Beckow castle in Upper lands/Horná Zem/Felvidék on the river Vag? Say it aint so, Beckow. 🙁

  825. @Greasy William
    @Ivashka the fool

    The big mistake in our culture regarding hatred is that hatred is seen as something immoral. I always dismissed that because I never had any desire to be moral to people who I felt had wronged me (and the list of such people was VERY long in my case). But what I eventually came to see was that me hating people, no matter how ostensibly "justified", only hurt me.

    When someone wrongs you, for you to respond by hating them makes as much sense as for you to respond by smashing your own hand with a hammer. All you are doing is causing yourself initial pain and getting nothing out of it. If you are hating, you are suffering. On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    Replies: @Yahya, @QCIC, @LatW

    But O! revenge is sweet.
    Thus think the crowd; who, eager to engage,
    Take quickly fire, and kindle into rage.
    Not so mild Thales nor Chrysippus thought,
    Nor that good man, who drank the poisonous draught.
    With mind serene; and could not wish to see
    His vile accuser drink as deep as he:
    Exalted Socrates! divinely brave!
    Injur’d he fell, and dying he forgave!
    Too noble for revenge; which still we find
    The weakest frailty of a feeble mind.

    DRYDEN.

    https://www.johnsonessays.com/the-rambler/no-185-the-prohibition-of-revenge-justifiable-by-reason-the-meanness-of-regulating-our-conduct-by-the-opinions-of-men/

    • Thanks: HeavilyMarbledSteak
  826. @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    This was you back in March last year. Completely wrong and yet expressed in the most unpleasantly obnoxious way. You have no credibility on this subject. Why conduct yourself like a nitwit sociopath?

    LMAO, idiotic fake news propaganda by morons with no military knowledge, understanding of this operation, or these Ukrainian lands – no surprise that you, dumb POS “utu” worships this nonsense

    Russia is exactly where we want and need to be on Kharkov and Kiev you idiot

     

    Russia did not redeploy from Kiev until immediately AFTER Izium was initially liberated and Mariupol was effectively fully controlled you cretin. I.e - Azov coastline and landbridge to Crimea , something the Ukronazis and Americans had spent billions of dollars and millions of hours in manpower trying to prevent happening for 8 years and a key objective of the SMO ,was completed.
    After Izium capture, this lead to the next stage of Lugansk was fully liberated, and grinding down ukronazi forces and weaponry in Donetsk region in one of the most fortified areas on the planet continues for Russia


    There was next to zero bombing raids or targeted strikes on south Kiev or surrounding regions Cherkassy and Poltava. With millions fleeing west from the city, Russia surrounding the North of Kiev - why would Russia leave resupply of the city from the south to go freely if they were serious about taking the city you idiot?


    Ukronazi's even invented the complete FAKE about attempted landing at Vasilkov Air base, and laughable "we shot down 2 Il-76's" trying to land there. All to try to promote the fake story of trying to take control of Kiev by seizing that base in addition to Gostomel.

    In reality the feint and the time-consuming transfer or fissionable material away from Chernobyl (and whatever was at Gostomel) were the primary objectives of the Northern operations - and succeeded of course.

    The exact moment Mariupol and Izium liberation is a certainty is the exact moment Kiev "retreat" is announced - only a serious moron thinks of this as a "co-incidence"? Notice how the redeployment back via Belarus, have a rest , then go back to Donbass faced next to ZERO opposition. Where are the POW's captured from this "failed" offensive and retreat through 100's of kms back to Belarus? Goodwill gesture from the Ukronazi's ? LOL

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I’m glad a lot of the Putinist idiots are like you. It means you’ll be able to not only accept if Ukraine takes back Crimea and Russia sues for peace, but you’ll even celebrate it as a victory! Probably with every defeat spun as a “feint” to protect Moscow from the awful Nazi menace.

    Winning!

    Honestly, I feel bad even teasing you about it, as your utter stupidity will be a key ingredient on the peace that eventually comes.

    But please, at the back of your mind, remember what a terrifically cultured Russian lady of my acquaintance said: “Putin has destroyed Russia.” She was born in China prior to Mao taking over because her family administrated the completion of the Trans-Siberian railway, and Putin has seen China leapfrog Russia in development. I feel so much for her. She is a great person and keeps the local Russian Orthodox church running, but the Russians in charge of Russia aren’t worthy of people like her. That’s just a plain fact.

  827. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution https://g.co/kgs/QfWPK1

    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx

    America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones https://g.co/kgs/R22eCq

    When something works fine, no need to change the approach.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx

    I’ve read this book on account of your recommendation.

    Sutton presented some interesting facts; but his conclusions were of varied quality.

    The strongest chapters were on the Dawes Plan; and the formation of I.G. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke.

    Weakest chapter was on Henry Ford; Sutton was clutching on straws.

    His assertion that American firms were instrumental in giving rise to Hitler is reasonable; but ultimately exaggerated.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    As the great Fuehrina Taylor Swift declared "covert narcisisism disguised as altruism." This is a bit harsh, but not an unreasonable way to dismiss the parochialism of Western thinkers, whereby they find their identity as at fault for just about everything. Hitler was not an American production. Nor was ISIS. Nor current African post-colonial failure. Nor is crime in Detroit because of "white supremacy", nor any of this. It is as ridiculous as claiming that Western trends are the fault of the other. Yes, there are contributions and complex interplay, but imagining yourself the main character in other people's lives is wrong, even if supposedly altruistic. The West is entertaining, inspirational and sometimes scary, but it is just a sideshow to the rest of the world, which has its own inadequacies, problems and insanities. Almost none of which fit into contemporary Western narratives.

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Details aside, what Sutton has shown is that "when the Devil plays chess, he plays both ends of the chessboard". The international finance circles played both the Reds and the Nazis. The goal was both to neuter Germany and to avoid Eastern Slav demographic dominance in Western Eurasia.

    Sutton has also described how these circles were organized in secret societies. The label "American" in his books is somewhat misleading. These people do not really identify with the citizens of the countries in which they reside. The whole world is their playground.

    Stalin was right when he denounced the "rootless cosmopolites". He actually sounded a little bit Hitlerian at the end of his life. Of course, he knew what he was talking about given his time with the Internationale. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  828. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx
     
    I’ve read this book on account of your recommendation.

    Sutton presented some interesting facts; but his conclusions were of varied quality.

    The strongest chapters were on the Dawes Plan; and the formation of I.G. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke.

    Weakest chapter was on Henry Ford; Sutton was clutching on straws.

    His assertion that American firms were instrumental in giving rise to Hitler is reasonable; but ultimately exaggerated.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    As the great Fuehrina Taylor Swift declared “covert narcisisism disguised as altruism.” This is a bit harsh, but not an unreasonable way to dismiss the parochialism of Western thinkers, whereby they find their identity as at fault for just about everything. Hitler was not an American production. Nor was ISIS. Nor current African post-colonial failure. Nor is crime in Detroit because of “white supremacy”, nor any of this. It is as ridiculous as claiming that Western trends are the fault of the other. Yes, there are contributions and complex interplay, but imagining yourself the main character in other people’s lives is wrong, even if supposedly altruistic. The West is entertaining, inspirational and sometimes scary, but it is just a sideshow to the rest of the world, which has its own inadequacies, problems and insanities. Almost none of which fit into contemporary Western narratives.

    • Agree: AP
  829. @A123
    @QCIC



    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. In a hypothetical where Russia is losing, Putin’s choices will be; (A) Using nukes, or; (B) Facing a coup. Then, after B, the next Russian leader would use the nukes.

    So…. What is the Kiev regime’s strategy?
     

    If Russia actually starts losing, they could always try option 3) stop losing.
     
    The purpose of hypothetical was to shine a light on Kiev regime policy. Not an expression of that scenario's likelihood.

    Can you explain how Kiev can win? Or, Zelensky's strategy?


    We can argue about their bombing capability
     
    There is no need for such a crude and expensive technique. Time is on Putin's side.

    Do you member the U.S. House floor fight over the Speakership a few weeks ago? Do you remember who forced McCarthy to make massive concessions? He's Back! (1)


    Gaetz Files 'Ukraine Fatigue Resolution' To Stop Funding Proxy War

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) filed a resolution on Thursday to end all US aid to Ukraine for war with Russia, while at the same time seeking a peace settlement between the two nations.

     

    "Joe Biden, and even some who have taken this stage, say defending freedom in Ukraine has costs for America," Gaetz said in a speech just two days after Russia invaded Ukraine. "Why should Americans have to pay the costs for freedom elsewhere when our own leaders won’t stand up for our freedom here?"
    ...
    "As the war slogs on in Ukraine, the benefits to Americans are unclear," said Gaetz. "Bandits in the Sinaloa Mountains hurt more Americans than the men in Crimea. But foreigners come to Washington to lecture us about spending our constituents’ money on a conflict thousands of miles away, and my colleagues are eager to oblige."
     
    There is video of his speech in the article.

    Can Gaetz successfully unwind current appropriations rammed through in the lame duck session. Probably not. However, any future grants will be much smaller and fully audited.

    Conclusion -- Zelensky has around 6-9 months of war resources left unless he obtains a massive transfusion of €uros and equipment from EU WEF Elites.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/gaetz-files-ukraine-fatigue-resolution-stop-funding-proxy-war

    Replies: @QCIC

    Bombing is cheap, but the rebuilding is expensive.

    I think the only way Kiev can “win” would be as a result of a behind-the-scenes power struggle in Russia. I don’t think they have a chance in a stand up fight against the Russian military, even though Russia still has one hand tied behind her back.

    Saying “Zelensky’s Strategy” is like saying ‘Biden’s strategy’; I wish someone would identify and start framing the discussion in terms of the real movers. I believe clown has even less agency than Biden.

    I try not to keep up with politics since it is pointlessly depressing. I wondered about the hullabaloo over McCarthy until I eventually concluded they are playing the odds on Joe and Kamala bailing out before things are over.

    • Replies: @216
    @QCIC

    The Turkish ground troops entered Syria in defiance of Russia's vassal, and Russia hasn't been able to force them out. Similarly, Polish troops could enter Ukraine in support of the government, and Russia probably won't be able to force them out.

    Replies: @QCIC

  830. @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Is that what you were trying to do in September when you claimed that Russia could easily destroy a huge amount of Ukrainian infrastructure, that they have instead completely failed to destroy, and Ukrainians would surrender or "millions would freeze and starve to death"?

    If you'd asked me, I could have told you that missiles are horrendously inefficient and won't do permanent damage, even if, as happened, Russia fired as many as it could produce/spare.

    And I could have told you this because anyone with even a basic amount of professional knowledge would know this, as long as they're not completely biased.

    So why didn't the people you read and listen to inform you? Are they liars, emotional children or intellectually incompetent?

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/all-the-young-dudes-carry-the-russian-news/#comment-5565530

    Replies: @QCIC

    No, at that point I was mostly trying to emphasize that the MSM view of Russian military capability is very slanted and dangerously misleading.

    I stand by the earlier comments, unless I implied anything about the timing which I would now retract. I no longer have any opinion on their schedule. In my view Russia does not want to kill civilians and destroy infrastructure any more than necessary to achieve a Ukrainian capitulation.

    I think missiles are efficient in terms of damaging point targets with limited collateral damage and limited exposure for soldiers. The trade off is they are relatively expensive and therefore are not a replacement for other weapons.

  831. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler https://g.co/kgs/xdLCgx
     
    I’ve read this book on account of your recommendation.

    Sutton presented some interesting facts; but his conclusions were of varied quality.

    The strongest chapters were on the Dawes Plan; and the formation of I.G. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke.

    Weakest chapter was on Henry Ford; Sutton was clutching on straws.

    His assertion that American firms were instrumental in giving rise to Hitler is reasonable; but ultimately exaggerated.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    Details aside, what Sutton has shown is that “when the Devil plays chess, he plays both ends of the chessboard”. The international finance circles played both the Reds and the Nazis. The goal was both to neuter Germany and to avoid Eastern Slav demographic dominance in Western Eurasia.

    Sutton has also described how these circles were organized in secret societies. The label “American” in his books is somewhat misleading. These people do not really identify with the citizens of the countries in which they reside. The whole world is their playground.

    Stalin was right when he denounced the “rootless cosmopolites”. He actually sounded a little bit Hitlerian at the end of his life. Of course, he knew what he was talking about given his time with the Internationale. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    Sutton has also described how these circles were organized in secret societies. The label “American” in his books is somewhat misleading. These people do not really identify with the citizens of the countries in which they reside. The whole world is their playground.
     
    For this reason reading Sutton should be extended by reading, for example, "Tragedy and Hope" by Caroll Quigley, of which the pre-WWII part is really excellent, giving a broad picture of the world (not just of the West) from the end of Franco-Prussian war, which really makes you aware how the world was interconnected at that time (the pre-WWI level of interconnections was only reached back in 1960s: during the current globalization you do not hear about it often since it is a strong argument against economic unions as a way to avoid wars, the main way to sell them to the public).
    As a bonus point from ESL perspective, Quigley has excellent English.

    Of lesser weight, but also interesting is his "Anglo-American Establishment", especially if you are aware of the establishment problem, of which you very rarely hear in the mainstream media (not even at unz). For example, British establishment is to number just around 40000 people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/26/the-establishment-uncovered-how-power-works-in-britain-elites-stranglehold

    This establishment does not receive the scrutiny it deserves.
  832. @Greasy William
    @Ivashka the fool

    The big mistake in our culture regarding hatred is that hatred is seen as something immoral. I always dismissed that because I never had any desire to be moral to people who I felt had wronged me (and the list of such people was VERY long in my case). But what I eventually came to see was that me hating people, no matter how ostensibly "justified", only hurt me.

    When someone wrongs you, for you to respond by hating them makes as much sense as for you to respond by smashing your own hand with a hammer. All you are doing is causing yourself initial pain and getting nothing out of it. If you are hating, you are suffering. On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    Replies: @Yahya, @QCIC, @LatW

    Are you saying “Don’t get mad, get even”?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @QCIC

    I'm saying "don't even *want* to get even"

  833. @AP
    @Beckow


    "Poles are our brothers."

    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal…not exactly brotherly behaviour.
     
    Fratricidal wars can be brutal. Remember when German Protestants an Catholics were killing each other?

    Bot Volyn was 80 years ago. Long before that, Ukrainians and Poles together burned Moscow. And defeated the Ottoman Empire:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khotyn_(1621)

    Russians and their lackeys - you - desperately bring up Volyn because you are motivated to divide Ukrainians an Poles. Understandably so.

    But more recently, as Russians have been murdering Ukrainians, Poland had provided shelter to million of its Ukrainians sisters and children.

    Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.
     
    Nothing infantile or awkward about brotherhood. You just wouldn't understand it, you only understand servitude.

    Polish Cardinal Dziwisz:

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2022-03/poland-dziwisz-krakow-ukrainian-refugees-nuns.html

    “A great solidarity has been created in an unexpected show of fraternity that treats Ukrainians as true brothers,"

    A Polish hero fighting in Ukraine:

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085544653/polands-history-with-russia-has-inspired-some-poles-to-join-the-fight-in-ukraine

    " Part of Ukraine used to be Polish before World War II. So Polish people and Ukrainian, we are like brothers and sisters, like a family."

    Zelensky: "Without a free Ukraine, there can be no free Poland. I know historians often argue about who was the first to say this, who was the author of this phrase. We have resolved this dispute - this is the will of the Ukrainian and Polish nations. Thank you brothers! "

    "De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish."

    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society
     
    No, it is healthy and good for Ukraine to undergo complete de-Russification, as is now progressing nicely, with no brakes.

    But you can’t “purge” ethnicity in 2023 – it would take a genocide or 2-3 generation
     
    It isn't genocide when Russian-speaking Ukrainians take the clean break and switch to their ancestral Ukrainian. Russia has driven many Russian-speaking families to western Ukraine or Poland, where their kids come home from school speaking Ukrainian (Poland has Ukrainian not Russian-speaking schools for the Ukrainian kids). All these kids from Kharkiv and Zaporizhia are coming home from school in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk as Ukrainian-speakers. Even those parents for whom it is hard to make the switch personally, are happy that their children naturally no longer speak the language of the invaders. Russian is no longer seen as the language of Pushkin, but the language of murderous thieves. Even in Russian-speaking Kiev or Kharkiv. (no different from what happened to the perception of the Ukrainian language in Luhansk, as AnoninTN observed).

    Our former host admits as much. The result will be a monoculture. The only question is if this monoculture will extend to the February 2022 territory, to the current line of contact (most likely IMO), or to the Dnipro, or be limited to Galicia plus Volyn. See below the "more" tag.

    People’s emotions are fleeting
     
    Even AnoninTN admits Ukrainians will not forgive Russians for 2-3 generations. He fears that if the war drags on too long it will take 4 generations.

    Let’s have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas…
     
    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.

    A big win for Russia would be if achieves its stated aims: occupies Kiev, establishes a puppet regime, dual-language, demilitarization, etc. This is exactly what you expected to happen last year. And what Putin said the goals were.

    A draw would be if Russia takes all of Zaporizhia and Kherson and Donbas (like the maps they now sell in Moscow), but in exchange the rest of Ukraine stays militarized, is completely de-Russified, and joins the EU.

    Anything between these two would be win for Russia, of varying extent. Such as the above, but Russia takes a destroyed and depopulated Kharkiv too (small win). Or Russia takes Odessa but the rest joins EU, stays militarized, gets de-Russified (bigger win).

    A big win for Ukraine would be return to Feb 2022 borders (plus northern Crimea) plus militarization, EU, de-Russification, etc. I think taking all of Donbas or all of Crimea would be a loss for Ukraine - who needs all those ethnic Russian people? I don't support mass deportation and ethnic cleansing. I am not a Russian.

    Anything between that and the draw - such as if the new border matches the current line of contact - would be a win for Ukraine, provided that Ukraine keeps its army, integrates with/joins the EU, and erases the Russian language and culture from its territory except as a marginal minority one for 5%.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022
     
    About 20% of the population has fled abroad so per capita that is not as extreme of a drop as it seems. Probably a 90% drop in Kherson, 70% in Kharkiv. Lots of businesses have moved to Lviv from Kharkiv, I wonder if there has even been a drop in that province?

    https://ukraine.iom.int/stories/economic-crisis-catalyst-growth-business-kharkiv-takes-roots-lviv

    If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies’s GNP/capita, they win – if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.
     
    Any comparisons should be for at least 1-2 years after the war ends.



    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1622893335370207232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3Apowerfultakes%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c12

    Replies: @Beckow, @QCIC

    …Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?

    No, I don’t – it was in 17th century….Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people. You can pretend that it is nothing, but the memories are there. Watch the movie, most Poles have. And Bandera bands were the worst enemy in Poland in 1945-7, the ones caught were killed. So enjoy your ‘brotherhood’, but to outsiders it looks odd.

    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.

    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a ‘total win’ for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, ‘de-nazifying’ Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means – it looks like a slogan, not a goal). The demilitarization would automatically come with it. My view is that a ‘total win’ would backfire in the long run – it wouldn’t be sustainable. So I am not sure Russia ever wanted it, they seem fairly level-headed about what can be done in the long run.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for? I don’t share your optimism about Galicia+ – regions close to potential military conflict don’t get investments. That is likely if there is a sharp dividing line. It is like real estate in a bad neighborhood permanently less valued.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine – today they are not. If they stay out Russia wins, if they come back it would be a loss – although if they are further away w no access to Black Sea it would still put Russia in a better position than they were in 2021.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    …Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?

    No, I don’t – it was in 17th century….Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people.
     
    Not many left, and not for much longer.

    But millions of Poles and Ukrainians are experiencing Ukrainians fighting again the common Russian enemy and Poles caring for the Ukrainian women and children as the Ukrainian men do the fighting (as do some Polish volunteers).

    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a ‘total win’ for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, ‘de-nazifying’ Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means – it looks like a slogan, not a goal)
     
    It's pretty clear, Russians equate Ukrainian Nationalists with Nazis, so de-Nazification means having a Yanukovich-Lukashenka type in charge, who bans the nationalist symbols in favor of Soviet ones, switches to Russian language, etc. This means elimination of all pro-Western parties. Old Party of Regions and Communists would be allowed.

    My view is that a ‘total win’ would backfire in the long run – it wouldn’t be sustainable
     
    It would be, if 80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for?
     
    Economy is important but it isn't everything. Being able to express one's culture would also be important. If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria, would you support total Magyarization of your people and extinction of your native culture if it made your country part of wealthy Hungary?

    I don’t share your optimism about Galicia+ – regions close to potential military conflict don’t get investments.
     
    South Korea and West Germany did great. Even West Berlin, surrounded, was a nice and wealthy place.

    The human material of western Ukraine, its IT industry, schools, etc. plus proximity to Poland and Germany don't suggest Moldova or Bulgaria, but rather Lithuania or eastern Poland. Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius. And about the same distance to Warsaw.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine – today they are not
     
    Ukraine is closer to NATO now than in 2021. Its military is integrated with NATO standards and weapons, there is more and closer training, there are instructors everywhere.

    I think odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @LatW

  834. @A123
    @Matra

    The electric motor sounds I could survive. This year's cars look like they have been pummeled with an "ugly stick".

     
    https://media.motorbox.com/image/formula-e-2023-test-valencia-tutte-le-auto-in-pista-nella-simulazione-gara/7/7/7/777917/777917-16x9-sm.jpg
     

    Seriously, who approved that design? It is hard to take seriously.
    ___

    I hope that decent English language coverage of Japan's Super GT500 racing comes back. It is awesome machinery on iconic tracks.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Wanderghost

    Does Scalextric have a team?

    • LOL: A123
  835. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Hatred, especially when justified, is an intoxicating emotion. It alters the perception and leads to warped worldview. I personally doing my possible to learn haiting none. It's not an easy lesson.


    3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

    4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

    5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
     
    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

    Be well.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Greasy William, @AP

    I hope my comment did not come across as hateful. It is not with hatred that I describe Russians as having been twisted in terms of their political culture and relation to power. Hatred is of course a harmful emotion. Anger on the other hand can be very useful in limited doses.

    I haven’t had love ones or neighbors die in this war (as is the case for many in Ukraine) nor has my life or that of loved ones been placed in danger at the hands of Russians, so I don’t have a visceral hatred of Russia or Russians. I wish Russia didn’t invade and don’t rejoice at the deaths of Russian soldiers, but better those invaders die than our people, being invaded. I’m still in touch with friends in Moscow, some of whom support the war (one is a retired general’s daughter, can’t blame her for supporting her military; for her its about geopolitics, she doesn’t believe bullshit about Nazis or NATO missiles like some morons here do). But my cousins in Ukraine have cut all ties. One of my cousins was even a strong Russophile after Maidan – we Ukrainians and Russians are one people, Ukrainians used to call themselves Rus, she would tell me. After her city east of the Dnipro was bombed and numerous civilians killed for nu reason she refers to Russians as inhuman (neliudy). It would be very hard to be in Ukraine and to not be be hateful towards Russians. This hatred will permanently separate the two peoples, which in the long run is probably a good thing, Ukraine has not done well when united with Russia. Let the Russians keep their Peters, Catherines, Lenins and Stalins to themselves, please. After the hatred passes into indifference, the boundary will be strong and taken for granted. But there is some good in addition to the evil – Ukrainians have reunited with their Polish brothers. Let that bond grow stronger.

    You didn’t answer if you had a chance to read the Bykov novel (I am genuinely curious about your impression, if you have done so).

    • Replies: @216
    @AP

    You underestimate how much people love winners and hate losers. Aerial bombing also results in a different reaction than occupying ground troops. Should the judgement of the battlefield end in Russia's favor, legion of Ukrainians will suddenly become Russophile all over again. These are flatlanders, not mountain people.

    The post-2014 regime has made it abundantly clear that their end goal is the installation of a liberal regime in Moscow, and possibly even the partition of the RF to fulfill Promethean fantasies.

    Replies: @AP

    , @QCIC
    @AP

    These Russian concerns you mentioned are actually ALL relevant and all true. If your friend's daughter has not figured this out yet, please forward this comment.


    AP wrote "...its about geopolitics, she doesn’t believe [nonsense] about Nazis or NATO missiles..."
     
    Geopolitics is the most important aspect but is difficult for most people to engage with, even amongst the vaunted Unz commentariat. The other aspects are true as well, but if they were standalone issues might not seem quite so serious. Reacting to them as if they are standalone issues is silly at best.

    In this case the NeoNazis and the nearby missiles are the gut level exemplification of what the geopolitics is all about. Outside forces want to degrade and destroy Russia, same as always. They plan to use hateful ideological thugs and missiles, as expected. Most people don't have the interest or intellect or energy to think through the geopolitics with many angles and byzantine complexities. They understand NeoNazis and missiles.

    I wish you guys would stop pretending to not understand this. Maybe you give it a lower weighting of importance, but please tell me you understand this!

    Sometimes when these situations come to a head one side has to invent a Nazi or a commie hiding under every rock. The fact that Jewish interests have accepted and nurtured these NeoNazi groups in ANY way is so cynical and arrogant it makes me laugh. It also supports the idea that outside forces simply want Ukraine and Russia to destroy themselves and don't give a rat's ass about any Slav.

    Great job, morons.
    , @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I don't really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what "patriotic pensioners" write on some Russian Telegram channels. Same accusations of "betrayal" and "inhumanity" leveled against the whole Ukrainian population. Same ardor in supporting "our people", same "spiritual" grandstanding. When I comment about this war being disgusting and lacking anything noble about it, the "patriotic babushkas and dedushkas" express the same "moral outrage". Entirely predictable from people who like categorizing and eschew intuitive perception and complex and granular thinking.

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : "You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?". He answered: "Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn't kill anyone." Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.

    I was young back then and I had a hard time understanding how someone could not feel hatred towards those who invaded one's country and killed one's people in the millions. I understand better now.

    About the book, I haven't read any by Zil'bertrud (Bykov). I find the personage antipathic despite him being a supposedly talented writer.

    Replies: @AP

  836. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    I like the girl, nice…
     
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16746/production/_104147919_pornaddict5.jpg

    Yep, it only makes sense that our very own "skinny" Beckow ges turned on by female body images displayed through the privacy of the internet (I think that they call that porn addiction). :-)

    Replies: @Beckow

    You are a strange guy, you may need help with more than your Ukie devotion and your Russophobia. You did mention once that you dont have kids, so I am not surprised.

    • Agree: QCIC
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    No need to worry Beckow, I don't put much stock into unfounded rumors. But I do have a problem with your niggardly payscale, where you pay only 1/3 the amount to your Ukrainian employees as you do to others, even though according to you they are "good workers". This can only be interpreted as hard evidence of your own hard boiled Ukrainophobia. :-(

    Replies: @Beckow

  837. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    You are a strange guy, you may need help with more than your Ukie devotion and your Russophobia. You did mention once that you dont have kids, so I am not surprised.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    No need to worry Beckow, I don’t put much stock into unfounded rumors. But I do have a problem with your niggardly payscale, where you pay only 1/3 the amount to your Ukrainian employees as you do to others, even though according to you they are “good workers”. This can only be interpreted as hard evidence of your own hard boiled Ukrainophobia. 🙁

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    No, it is called market...when you have few alternatives the 'market' says you get less.

    The problem with the burger-chewing people across the ocean is that you like to celebrate the market as long as you win, or when you run it. But when it turns against you - as it inevitably does - you start nagging and saying 'it's not fair'...

    The first lesson of capitalism is that when you take a command of your life, you are on your own... The Ukies are literally begging for it - they worship the idea of the West, capitalism, markets, etc...so they are as a consequence on their own, each one of them. I don't make the rules and I didn't tell the Ukies to throw away everything and throw yourself at the mercy of the system, they did that on their own, and quite enthusiastically...like your cholo laborers in Phoenix. They are actually very similar.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  838. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?
     
    No, I don't - it was in 17th century....Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people. You can pretend that it is nothing, but the memories are there. Watch the movie, most Poles have. And Bandera bands were the worst enemy in Poland in 1945-7, the ones caught were killed. So enjoy your 'brotherhood', but to outsiders it looks odd.

    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.
     
    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a 'total win' for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, 'de-nazifying' Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means - it looks like a slogan, not a goal). The demilitarization would automatically come with it. My view is that a 'total win' would backfire in the long run - it wouldn't be sustainable. So I am not sure Russia ever wanted it, they seem fairly level-headed about what can be done in the long run.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for? I don't share your optimism about Galicia+ - regions close to potential military conflict don't get investments. That is likely if there is a sharp dividing line. It is like real estate in a bad neighborhood permanently less valued.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine - today they are not. If they stay out Russia wins, if they come back it would be a loss - although if they are further away w no access to Black Sea it would still put Russia in a better position than they were in 2021.

    Replies: @AP

    …Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?

    No, I don’t – it was in 17th century….Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people.

    Not many left, and not for much longer.

    But millions of Poles and Ukrainians are experiencing Ukrainians fighting again the common Russian enemy and Poles caring for the Ukrainian women and children as the Ukrainian men do the fighting (as do some Polish volunteers).

    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a ‘total win’ for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, ‘de-nazifying’ Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means – it looks like a slogan, not a goal)

    It’s pretty clear, Russians equate Ukrainian Nationalists with Nazis, so de-Nazification means having a Yanukovich-Lukashenka type in charge, who bans the nationalist symbols in favor of Soviet ones, switches to Russian language, etc. This means elimination of all pro-Western parties. Old Party of Regions and Communists would be allowed.

    My view is that a ‘total win’ would backfire in the long run – it wouldn’t be sustainable

    It would be, if 80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for?

    Economy is important but it isn’t everything. Being able to express one’s culture would also be important. If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria, would you support total Magyarization of your people and extinction of your native culture if it made your country part of wealthy Hungary?

    I don’t share your optimism about Galicia+ – regions close to potential military conflict don’t get investments.

    South Korea and West Germany did great. Even West Berlin, surrounded, was a nice and wealthy place.

    The human material of western Ukraine, its IT industry, schools, etc. plus proximity to Poland and Germany don’t suggest Moldova or Bulgaria, but rather Lithuania or eastern Poland. Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius. And about the same distance to Warsaw.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine – today they are not

    Ukraine is closer to NATO now than in 2021. Its military is integrated with NATO standards and weapons, there is more and closer training, there are instructors everywhere.

    I think odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    This means elimination of all pro-Western parties
     
    No it doesn't. When you jump the shark and claim nonsense like that you lose credibility. That is simply idiotic and you know it.

    80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.
     
    No they wouldn't - about 20% would leave permanently. The lands are quite empty already.

    If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria.
     
    You are back to your "if"...these made up what-if scenarios are not real - as I told you before you may as well do what-if on the Italian cousine without tomatoes. We live in a real world and there is no need to do absurd made-up convoluted analogies.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US...that will not happen w Ukraine, US is not as dominantly rich as it was then, and it would piss off the natives (I mean in America). There is also the work ethic issue.


    odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.
     
    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%, with the war they dropped to under 20% or less - the same odds as Russia losing the war. Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato - that is the reason for the war. Your inability to understand this is puzzling, you are either a committed propagandist (so you will lie about what you know), or you really are that stupid and unable to understand what is a simple situation.

    Replies: @216, @LatW, @AP

    , @LatW
    @AP


    Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius.
     
    Keep in mind that Vilnius receives quite significant investment from the Nordic countries. So it's not all about Berlin. Just a small detail, it doesn't change the big picture (your overall argument might be correct and there could be more prosperity in Ukraine eventually, especially Western Ukraine, Dei gratia), but important to note when making comparisons.

    Speaking of Berlin, apparently Rhein Metal wants to open a factory in Ukraine after the war to make Panther tanks. If they're even as entertaining such plans, it means they anticipate enough peace to be able to cooperate at that level

    By the way, the recent reception of Ze at the European Parliament was very warm, might be meaningful.

    Replies: @AP

  839. @Leaves No Shadow
    What do people think of the zek oligarch stating that Russia has narrowed its horizons to just Donetsk and Luhansk, but will still need at least 2 years for even that?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @Philip Owen

    And let’s be honest, that’d be equal in any actual benefit sense to returning to pre-war lines. An actual possible negotiation position.

    So pro-Putinists, imagine not losing another hundred thousand or whatever soldiers, not having your economy continue to degrade, not having even more of the world turn from you in hatred and disgust, and not being responsible for the murder of even more Ukrainians – as an infinitely black stain on your soul. Wouldn’t that be great!

  840. @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    Are you saying "Don't get mad, get even"?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I’m saying “don’t even *want* to get even”

  841. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    No need to worry Beckow, I don't put much stock into unfounded rumors. But I do have a problem with your niggardly payscale, where you pay only 1/3 the amount to your Ukrainian employees as you do to others, even though according to you they are "good workers". This can only be interpreted as hard evidence of your own hard boiled Ukrainophobia. :-(

    Replies: @Beckow

    No, it is called market…when you have few alternatives the ‘market’ says you get less.

    The problem with the burger-chewing people across the ocean is that you like to celebrate the market as long as you win, or when you run it. But when it turns against you – as it inevitably does – you start nagging and saying ‘it’s not fair’…

    The first lesson of capitalism is that when you take a command of your life, you are on your own… The Ukies are literally begging for it – they worship the idea of the West, capitalism, markets, etc…so they are as a consequence on their own, each one of them. I don’t make the rules and I didn’t tell the Ukies to throw away everything and throw yourself at the mercy of the system, they did that on their own, and quite enthusiastically…like your cholo laborers in Phoenix. They are actually very similar.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    No, it is called market…when you have few alternatives the ‘market’ says you get less.

     

    Only the Ukrainians get paid less, the other ethnicities get paid more. You're artificially trying to develop a two tiered system, where presumably a union doesn't even exist.

    None of this really explains how and why you chose to pay your Ukrainian employees much less than your other employees? If you were an honest employer, you wouldn't take advantage of one ethnic group's war status. You appear to be a miserly, curmudgeonly type of individual - don't mistake "market" forces with pure, old fashioned Ukrainophobia.
  842. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    Details aside, what Sutton has shown is that "when the Devil plays chess, he plays both ends of the chessboard". The international finance circles played both the Reds and the Nazis. The goal was both to neuter Germany and to avoid Eastern Slav demographic dominance in Western Eurasia.

    Sutton has also described how these circles were organized in secret societies. The label "American" in his books is somewhat misleading. These people do not really identify with the citizens of the countries in which they reside. The whole world is their playground.

    Stalin was right when he denounced the "rootless cosmopolites". He actually sounded a little bit Hitlerian at the end of his life. Of course, he knew what he was talking about given his time with the Internationale. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Sutton has also described how these circles were organized in secret societies. The label “American” in his books is somewhat misleading. These people do not really identify with the citizens of the countries in which they reside. The whole world is their playground.

    For this reason reading Sutton should be extended by reading, for example, “Tragedy and Hope” by Caroll Quigley, of which the pre-WWII part is really excellent, giving a broad picture of the world (not just of the West) from the end of Franco-Prussian war, which really makes you aware how the world was interconnected at that time (the pre-WWI level of interconnections was only reached back in 1960s: during the current globalization you do not hear about it often since it is a strong argument against economic unions as a way to avoid wars, the main way to sell them to the public).
    As a bonus point from ESL perspective, Quigley has excellent English.

    Of lesser weight, but also interesting is his “Anglo-American Establishment”, especially if you are aware of the establishment problem, of which you very rarely hear in the mainstream media (not even at unz). For example, British establishment is to number just around 40000 people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/26/the-establishment-uncovered-how-power-works-in-britain-elites-stranglehold

    This establishment does not receive the scrutiny it deserves.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Ivashka the fool
  843. @QCIC
    @A123

    Bombing is cheap, but the rebuilding is expensive.

    I think the only way Kiev can "win" would be as a result of a behind-the-scenes power struggle in Russia. I don't think they have a chance in a stand up fight against the Russian military, even though Russia still has one hand tied behind her back.

    Saying "Zelensky's Strategy" is like saying 'Biden's strategy'; I wish someone would identify and start framing the discussion in terms of the real movers. I believe clown has even less agency than Biden.

    I try not to keep up with politics since it is pointlessly depressing. I wondered about the hullabaloo over McCarthy until I eventually concluded they are playing the odds on Joe and Kamala bailing out before things are over.

    Replies: @216

    The Turkish ground troops entered Syria in defiance of Russia’s vassal, and Russia hasn’t been able to force them out. Similarly, Polish troops could enter Ukraine in support of the government, and Russia probably won’t be able to force them out.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @216

    Nothing in Syria is simple. I think Russia is there strictly for combat practice. As long as Russia has close ties with both Israel and Turkey there is not much she can do.

    I think some Russians would like to support Syria and give protection from her drooling neighbors. They are not strong enough at the moment to achieve very much. The possibilities may be different in 20 years after Ukraine has become re-integrated with Russia.

  844. @Sean
    @Greasy William


    It is not clear that Putin’s regime would elect to go “down with the ship” in the event that Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons. Especially if Russia proper wasn’t threatened in any way
     
    The Russian generals have already shown that are no cowards by being killed in relatively large numbers on active service in Ukraine. One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world's most important states In the scenario where Ukraine is winning, and the Russia army is being routed, the Russian leadership and military commanders are likely to agree that the West and Ukraine need so be shown that Russia is not the kind of country that can be treated like that.

    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons), then bad as using a nuke would be for Russia, from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin's) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option


    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up. Zelensky' closest advisor Podolyak has just predicted the break of RusFed as a result of the coming defeats and casualties in Ukraine (ie will not be necessary to invade Russia proper.

    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon? There would be uncertainty and fear of further panicking the Kremlin. In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia's very fragility. An endgame without a Russian rout and resort to desperate measures short of an attack on Nato forces but presenting them with a challenge will be very tricky to avoid because things speed up towards the end, in war as so many things. Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger. Is Nato willing to directly enter conventional combat, limited but nevertheless actual, against Russian forces if Russia gets so desperate it nukes the Ukrainian army? I cannot see that happening.

    Replies: @LatW

    One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world’s most important states

    Right, this is probably true. But I’ve also heard that the Russian officers have a code of honor, based on which they will not use a nuke. But I may be wrong, and not all of them may follow it, obviously.

    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used. Russia doesn’t have the means, the economy nor the necessary troops / equipment to fight a nuclear war (as I already mentioned to you, how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained? You responded by saying it would be some “hybrid gesture”, just a blast, which I do understand, but you’re saying this as if raising the stakes so high would not affect Russia herself at all).

    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons)

    There is a possibility that Russia will fight fiercely now and February will be very tough for both sides, but they will wear themselves out by April, May. At that point, Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there (Crimea is a pocket by definition).

    (Please, do not hit the Lastochkino Gnezdo!!) 😢

    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up

    These are the kinds of consequences that one should consider BEFORE one issues an ultimatum to the whole West (and then starts doing things that haven’t been done since 1945).

    from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin’s) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option

    It will depend on how the Russian Deep state feels. If Putin ends up being the only problem, who goes against their interests, they will remove him. I know you’re arguing that the Deep State is patriotic, yes, but they also care about their wellbeing. Maybe they don’t want to go down in flames.

    Btw, it seems there is some spat going on between Putin and Patrushev (it appears to be over Patrushev’s son, but maybe something more). If Patrushev is thinking about the future career of his son, then surely he may be against a nuclear war, even a limited one.

    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?

    At that point, when the stakes are raised that high, it won’t be just about the US. Both China and India have explicitly said “No nukes”. China is even against any talk about using nukes. Russia is now dependent economically on those countries so Russia should care about how this could be perceived by those countries.

    In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia’s very fragility.

    This is an interesting aspect, but remember that Russia’s fragility is a huge risk to Russia herself (and the Russian population).

    Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger.

    Ukraine is not “winning comfortably” but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of “extreme instability and danger” Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.

    Btw, you are using this “nuclear scenario” so much that it’s starting to look like some intellectual nuclear fetishism. No offense.

    • Replies: @A123
    @LatW


    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used.
     
    Accepted.

    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. Using 20+ high yield, strategic nukes is better than losing.

    Breaking the ability of the Europe Empire to supply Ukie aggression requires burning the rail system and eradicating Black Sea ports including Odessa. Just to make the point clear, pummeling Kiev and/or Lviv is also on the table.


    how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained?
     
    The land and water are ruined. Why enter it at all? Declare it unsalvageable and move on. That is incredibly easy as a strategic choice.

    Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there
     
    How will the Ukie Maximalists cross the Dnieper?

    Russia has massive amounts of gear to create pontoon bridges and similar structures. They grasped that supporting their existing beach head on the west bank was so hard, it would not hold.

    The idea of Ukie forces using temporary structures to support an Azov offensive defies the concept of military logistics. The flat, open terrain in the south is where Russia forces have maximum advantage.


    (Crimea is a pocket by definition).
     
    How is Crimea a military pocket?

    Russia can resupply from the north by land, across the Kerch bridge which includes rail (though this is a fixed target), and by water across either Azov Sea or Black Sea.


    Ukraine is not “winning comfortably” but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of “extreme instability and danger” Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.
     
    What Kiev regime goals? What Zelensky strategy?

    Again -- Putin sincerely believes that Russia is an existential fight for survival as a people.

    Whether you, I, or anyone else agrees with that assessment is irrelevant. Putin and his inner circle believe it. Therefore, Putin is predictable. He cannot accept anything that will not score as a "win" in term of the Russian psyche.

    How can I make this clear in a 100% unambiguous manner? If Putin, or his successor if he goes weak, has two choices:

    -1- Destroy all human life on the planet expending 5,000+ nuclear weapons. Plus, thousands of more U.S. nukes in the inevitable counter strike.

    -2- Losing in Ukraine.

    Ending humanity #1 is the "less bad" option as perceived by the team that can end humanity. If you believe otherwise, you are sadly kidding yourself. The terrifying problem is that Macron and other EU leaders seem to be similarly deluded.
    ___

    I know that speaking for God is problematic. However -- If the human race ends itself because Zelensky and Macron are clueless. -- Expect Old Testament style wrath.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @Sean
    @LatW


    Both China and India have explicitly said “No nukes”.
     
    Very few bald statements are as unqualified as they sound. The Kremlin's own spokesman has said no nuke use will be contemplated in Ukraine. But like JFK saying he wanted to withdraw from Vietnam, the unspoken corollary is victory. Kennedy never said he would withdraw without victory. So I think the use of nuclear weapons by Russia would not be so necessarily counter productive for the current occupants of the Kremlin and their undercover allies as to be impermissible in all circumstances, and judging by the way the US has been denying Ukraine many of the most effective arms, Washington is in no hurry to find out. Or even discuss what the endgame will look like. Nevertheless, Ukraine is going to have to be supplied F16, Abrams ECT eventually because of the rate they are burning though their old Soviet era weapons, and so the denouement cannot be put off forever.
  845. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    No, it is called market...when you have few alternatives the 'market' says you get less.

    The problem with the burger-chewing people across the ocean is that you like to celebrate the market as long as you win, or when you run it. But when it turns against you - as it inevitably does - you start nagging and saying 'it's not fair'...

    The first lesson of capitalism is that when you take a command of your life, you are on your own... The Ukies are literally begging for it - they worship the idea of the West, capitalism, markets, etc...so they are as a consequence on their own, each one of them. I don't make the rules and I didn't tell the Ukies to throw away everything and throw yourself at the mercy of the system, they did that on their own, and quite enthusiastically...like your cholo laborers in Phoenix. They are actually very similar.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    No, it is called market…when you have few alternatives the ‘market’ says you get less.

    Only the Ukrainians get paid less, the other ethnicities get paid more. You’re artificially trying to develop a two tiered system, where presumably a union doesn’t even exist.

    None of this really explains how and why you chose to pay your Ukrainian employees much less than your other employees? If you were an honest employer, you wouldn’t take advantage of one ethnic group’s war status. You appear to be a miserly, curmudgeonly type of individual – don’t mistake “market” forces with pure, old fashioned Ukrainophobia.

  846. @AP
    @Beckow


    …Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?

    No, I don’t – it was in 17th century….Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people.
     
    Not many left, and not for much longer.

    But millions of Poles and Ukrainians are experiencing Ukrainians fighting again the common Russian enemy and Poles caring for the Ukrainian women and children as the Ukrainian men do the fighting (as do some Polish volunteers).

    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a ‘total win’ for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, ‘de-nazifying’ Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means – it looks like a slogan, not a goal)
     
    It's pretty clear, Russians equate Ukrainian Nationalists with Nazis, so de-Nazification means having a Yanukovich-Lukashenka type in charge, who bans the nationalist symbols in favor of Soviet ones, switches to Russian language, etc. This means elimination of all pro-Western parties. Old Party of Regions and Communists would be allowed.

    My view is that a ‘total win’ would backfire in the long run – it wouldn’t be sustainable
     
    It would be, if 80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for?
     
    Economy is important but it isn't everything. Being able to express one's culture would also be important. If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria, would you support total Magyarization of your people and extinction of your native culture if it made your country part of wealthy Hungary?

    I don’t share your optimism about Galicia+ – regions close to potential military conflict don’t get investments.
     
    South Korea and West Germany did great. Even West Berlin, surrounded, was a nice and wealthy place.

    The human material of western Ukraine, its IT industry, schools, etc. plus proximity to Poland and Germany don't suggest Moldova or Bulgaria, but rather Lithuania or eastern Poland. Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius. And about the same distance to Warsaw.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine – today they are not
     
    Ukraine is closer to NATO now than in 2021. Its military is integrated with NATO standards and weapons, there is more and closer training, there are instructors everywhere.

    I think odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @LatW

    This means elimination of all pro-Western parties

    No it doesn’t. When you jump the shark and claim nonsense like that you lose credibility. That is simply idiotic and you know it.

    80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.

    No they wouldn’t – about 20% would leave permanently. The lands are quite empty already.

    If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria.

    You are back to your “if”…these made up what-if scenarios are not real – as I told you before you may as well do what-if on the Italian cousine without tomatoes. We live in a real world and there is no need to do absurd made-up convoluted analogies.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US…that will not happen w Ukraine, US is not as dominantly rich as it was then, and it would piss off the natives (I mean in America). There is also the work ethic issue.

    odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.

    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%, with the war they dropped to under 20% or less – the same odds as Russia losing the war. Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato – that is the reason for the war. Your inability to understand this is puzzling, you are either a committed propagandist (so you will lie about what you know), or you really are that stupid and unable to understand what is a simple situation.

    • Replies: @216
    @Beckow

    The NATO treaty prevents the addition of members in an active conflict, the only functional way for Kiev to join would be to retake all of the territory in the 1954 borders. I am unaware if the EU Constitution contains a similar requirement, but presuming as Cyprus was admitted, it probably doesn't. The non-NATO EU states are de-facto (freeloaders) members of NATO and Russia could not attack without a nuclear response.

    It would be far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO, which would ensure conservatives would control both institutions.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @LatW
    @Beckow


    There is also the work ethic issue.

     

    They work hard when they are motivated and properly managed. Plus they don't need to be like Germans or Asians that way, and still have a decent living standard.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    "This means elimination of all pro-Western parties"

    No it doesn’t
     
    Yes it does - the Kremlin regards them as Nazi parties. Even Zelensky is regarded as a Nazi.

    This means that the only parties to be allowed will be a resurrected Party of Regions, Communists, and any Russian nationalist parties (including fascist ones, of course).

    You think any other kind of party is allowed in Crimea, Donbas or occupied Zaporizhia?

    "80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion."

    No they wouldn’t – about 20% would leave permanently.

     

    Only about one half to one third of people remained in Kherson, Melitopol, etc. under Russian occupation. But these people did not have much time to pack and flee before the Russians came in. And these regions are less nationalistic than others.

    If Russia grabs more territory, the percentage of people willing to live under Russian rule decrease. Between the combination of mass casualties/mass resistance, and escape, the Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine will have 10% to 20% of its original inhabitants. Many of those will move to free Ukraine, Poland, Western Europe, America, Canada. Ukrainians hate Russia and Russian rule. They won't choose to live in a bombed out wasteland with Russian and Chechen overlords, rather than staying getting asylum and living in the West or living in the free Ukraine which is on its way to the EU.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US…that will not happen w Ukraine
     
    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany's population and will be largely reconstructed using money taken from frozen Russian assets. Ukraine within current line of control has perhaps around half of South Korea's population.

    There is also the work ethic issue.
     
    Ukrainians work harder than most western Europeans, probably harder than Germans.

    "odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war."

    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%
     
    I remember how after 2014 and prior to 2021 Russians and their lackeys were bragging that Ukraine would never get into NATO because NATO doesn't accept countries with territorial disputes, and Ukraine claimed Donbas and Crimea. Too dangerous. It was part of the brilliance of seizing those territories. But now you pretend that didn't matter.

    with the war they dropped to under 20%
     
    With the war, grew to 25% but 20% is also possible, why not.

    Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato – that is the reason for the war.
     
    There has been no real war for 7 years after Maidan and no NATO membership. Nor would there have been for another 7 years. In 20 years, 50 years - who knows?

    Thanks to the war Ukrainians have proven that they can fight well, that they can use NATO equipment well, and their military is now NATO ready and compatible. Close training and camaraderie between NATO and Ukrainian troops have also made a difference. Before the war, Ukraine was neither de facto nor de jure a NATO country, now it is very close to being a de facto one. So the odds have increased, though they are still well below 50%.

    Total Russian defeat (unlikely) would increase the odds to 80% though.

    Replies: @Beckow

  847. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I hope my comment did not come across as hateful. It is not with hatred that I describe Russians as having been twisted in terms of their political culture and relation to power. Hatred is of course a harmful emotion. Anger on the other hand can be very useful in limited doses.

    I haven't had love ones or neighbors die in this war (as is the case for many in Ukraine) nor has my life or that of loved ones been placed in danger at the hands of Russians, so I don't have a visceral hatred of Russia or Russians. I wish Russia didn't invade and don't rejoice at the deaths of Russian soldiers, but better those invaders die than our people, being invaded. I'm still in touch with friends in Moscow, some of whom support the war (one is a retired general's daughter, can't blame her for supporting her military; for her its about geopolitics, she doesn't believe bullshit about Nazis or NATO missiles like some morons here do). But my cousins in Ukraine have cut all ties. One of my cousins was even a strong Russophile after Maidan - we Ukrainians and Russians are one people, Ukrainians used to call themselves Rus, she would tell me. After her city east of the Dnipro was bombed and numerous civilians killed for nu reason she refers to Russians as inhuman (neliudy). It would be very hard to be in Ukraine and to not be be hateful towards Russians. This hatred will permanently separate the two peoples, which in the long run is probably a good thing, Ukraine has not done well when united with Russia. Let the Russians keep their Peters, Catherines, Lenins and Stalins to themselves, please. After the hatred passes into indifference, the boundary will be strong and taken for granted. But there is some good in addition to the evil - Ukrainians have reunited with their Polish brothers. Let that bond grow stronger.

    You didn't answer if you had a chance to read the Bykov novel (I am genuinely curious about your impression, if you have done so).

    Replies: @216, @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    You underestimate how much people love winners and hate losers. Aerial bombing also results in a different reaction than occupying ground troops. Should the judgement of the battlefield end in Russia’s favor, legion of Ukrainians will suddenly become Russophile all over again. These are flatlanders, not mountain people.

    The post-2014 regime has made it abundantly clear that their end goal is the installation of a liberal regime in Moscow, and possibly even the partition of the RF to fulfill Promethean fantasies.

    • Replies: @AP
    @216


    You underestimate how much people love winners and hate losers. Aerial bombing also results in a different reaction than occupying ground troops. Should the judgement of the battlefield end in Russia’s favor, legion of Ukrainians will suddenly become Russophile all over again.
     
    Now that Russians have invaded and killed a lot of Ukrainians, they will not be liked even if they win on the battlefield. Germans came to like the Americans, but this is because they recognized that they were the aggressors and felt guilty. Invaded people don't do that. Ukrainians would be like Poles and Balts, who never liked Russians.

    The post-2014 regime has made it abundantly clear that their end goal is the installation of a liberal regime in Moscow
     
    The end goal is to keep Ukraine securely with its western brethren in the EU and out of Russia's clutches. Hopes about Russia breaking up are for the purpose of preventing Russia from stopping that. It's ancillary to that main goal, not the end goal itself.
  848. @Beckow
    @AP


    This means elimination of all pro-Western parties
     
    No it doesn't. When you jump the shark and claim nonsense like that you lose credibility. That is simply idiotic and you know it.

    80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.
     
    No they wouldn't - about 20% would leave permanently. The lands are quite empty already.

    If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria.
     
    You are back to your "if"...these made up what-if scenarios are not real - as I told you before you may as well do what-if on the Italian cousine without tomatoes. We live in a real world and there is no need to do absurd made-up convoluted analogies.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US...that will not happen w Ukraine, US is not as dominantly rich as it was then, and it would piss off the natives (I mean in America). There is also the work ethic issue.


    odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.
     
    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%, with the war they dropped to under 20% or less - the same odds as Russia losing the war. Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato - that is the reason for the war. Your inability to understand this is puzzling, you are either a committed propagandist (so you will lie about what you know), or you really are that stupid and unable to understand what is a simple situation.

    Replies: @216, @LatW, @AP

    The NATO treaty prevents the addition of members in an active conflict, the only functional way for Kiev to join would be to retake all of the territory in the 1954 borders. I am unaware if the EU Constitution contains a similar requirement, but presuming as Cyprus was admitted, it probably doesn’t. The non-NATO EU states are de-facto (freeloaders) members of NATO and Russia could not attack without a nuclear response.

    It would be far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO, which would ensure conservatives would control both institutions.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @216


    ...far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO
     
    Russia sought to join EU and Nato and was flatly rejected. Then Russia sought a stable 'partnership' with agreed on rules and mutual security and was told to take a hike - arms, bases and eventually missiles were going to Ukraine. By 2021 Russia two choices:
    - sit back and wait for the Nato process to complete on a long Ukie border close to central Russia and with pumped up Ukies threatening anything Russian ("kill Moskali")
    - take a military action to prevent it.

    A war is never healthy and Russia could have waited. They chose not to. But the whole "Great Power" is a nonsensical distraction. Russia is a Power as is US, China, France, UK...those powers wouldn't allow a danger of this magnitude on their borders and neither would Russia. The only 'delusion' is in your mind for not seeing them as equal. The war will determine if they are, that's the way it has always been.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @216

  849. @Greasy William
    @Ivashka the fool

    The big mistake in our culture regarding hatred is that hatred is seen as something immoral. I always dismissed that because I never had any desire to be moral to people who I felt had wronged me (and the list of such people was VERY long in my case). But what I eventually came to see was that me hating people, no matter how ostensibly "justified", only hurt me.

    When someone wrongs you, for you to respond by hating them makes as much sense as for you to respond by smashing your own hand with a hammer. All you are doing is causing yourself initial pain and getting nothing out of it. If you are hating, you are suffering. On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    Replies: @Yahya, @QCIC, @LatW

    On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

    You have to transcend ardent hatred into rationality. Do not wallow in hatred, only use little bits of it to inspire yourself and remind yourself of what has been committed against you. Then transcend the hatred into cold rationality and then action. It’s like forging a sword – first, the steel is red, burning hot, but eventually it turns into hard, silvery, cold steel.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    Depends what the end goal is. If one wishes self- affirmation then yes, sublimation of hatred is useful. If one wishes transcending one's self, then letting go of hatred is best.

  850. @Leaves No Shadow
    What do people think of the zek oligarch stating that Russia has narrowed its horizons to just Donetsk and Luhansk, but will still need at least 2 years for even that?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @Philip Owen

    zek oligarch

    Is it just my vivid imagination or in terms of color and facial profile he has the overall looks bit similar to michaeljacksoned older version of original Predator spec-op team member?;)

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @sudden death

    There's a lot of Jews I like, including the way they look, but they're not a people renowned for their physical beauty, which is odd because many look basically Italian.

    "Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent"

    Ah yes, the man that Andrew Anglin et al have been persuaded to think is beating their hated "ZOG" is actually Jewish.

    Certainly a people more successful than most, which I admire, even as this one would ideally be shuffled off this existence.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/mercenary-linked-putin-ally-lashes-dying-out-western-civilization/

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @LatW
    @sudden death

    Did you hear the latest gem from this "vivid" character?

    Scroll down to hear the video:

    https://www.unian.net/russianworld/prigozhin-zayavil-chto-rf-chestno-otdast-ukraincam-franciyu-italiyu-i-bolgariyu-video-12140697.html

    Офигеть.

    I don't know... is this some kind of grotesque theater? If so, can we please remove Ukrainians from it?

    "Никакого расслабона"... "нормальные рабочие костюмы..."

    "А где наш Ла-Манш?" LOL

    Мать твою... this is the craziest sh*t I've heard in a long time.

    Replies: @LatW

  851. @AP
    @Beckow


    …Remember when German Protestants and Catholics were killing each other?

    No, I don’t – it was in 17th century….Volyn massacres were in living memory of older people.
     
    Not many left, and not for much longer.

    But millions of Poles and Ukrainians are experiencing Ukrainians fighting again the common Russian enemy and Poles caring for the Ukrainian women and children as the Ukrainian men do the fighting (as do some Polish volunteers).

    I think over 30% of Ukraine is pretty ambitious. If you want to add a ‘total win’ for Russia, it would be taking Kiev, ‘de-nazifying’ Ukraine (I have never quite understood what that means – it looks like a slogan, not a goal)
     
    It's pretty clear, Russians equate Ukrainian Nationalists with Nazis, so de-Nazification means having a Yanukovich-Lukashenka type in charge, who bans the nationalist symbols in favor of Soviet ones, switches to Russian language, etc. This means elimination of all pro-Western parties. Old Party of Regions and Communists would be allowed.

    My view is that a ‘total win’ would backfire in the long run – it wouldn’t be sustainable
     
    It would be, if 80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.

    I agree that the economy should be 2 years plus after the war. You should agree economy is an important benchmark: if smaller Ukraine becomes another Moldova or even Bulgaria, what was all of this good for?
     
    Economy is important but it isn't everything. Being able to express one's culture would also be important. If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria, would you support total Magyarization of your people and extinction of your native culture if it made your country part of wealthy Hungary?

    I don’t share your optimism about Galicia+ – regions close to potential military conflict don’t get investments.
     
    South Korea and West Germany did great. Even West Berlin, surrounded, was a nice and wealthy place.

    The human material of western Ukraine, its IT industry, schools, etc. plus proximity to Poland and Germany don't suggest Moldova or Bulgaria, but rather Lithuania or eastern Poland. Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius. And about the same distance to Warsaw.

    The big win-lose will depend not just on borders but on what will be the relationship w Nato. In 2021 Nato was effectively in Ukraine – today they are not
     
    Ukraine is closer to NATO now than in 2021. Its military is integrated with NATO standards and weapons, there is more and closer training, there are instructors everywhere.

    I think odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @LatW

    Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius.

    Keep in mind that Vilnius receives quite significant investment from the Nordic countries. So it’s not all about Berlin. Just a small detail, it doesn’t change the big picture (your overall argument might be correct and there could be more prosperity in Ukraine eventually, especially Western Ukraine, Dei gratia), but important to note when making comparisons.

    Speaking of Berlin, apparently Rhein Metal wants to open a factory in Ukraine after the war to make Panther tanks. If they’re even as entertaining such plans, it means they anticipate enough peace to be able to cooperate at that level

    By the way, the recent reception of Ze at the European Parliament was very warm, might be meaningful.

    • Replies: @AP
    @LatW


    Speaking of Berlin, apparently Rhein Metal wants to open a factory in Ukraine after the war to make Panther tanks. If they’re even as entertaining such plans, it means they anticipate enough peace to be able to cooperate at that level
     
    And if it happens, the place will be Kiev, not Kharkiv (the traditional tank-building city). Part of the westward moves within Ukraine.
  852. @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow


    zek oligarch
     
    Is it just my vivid imagination or in terms of color and facial profile he has the overall looks bit similar to michaeljacksoned older version of original Predator spec-op team member?;)

    https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/predator1-promo-013.jpg


    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i9Odz31BZzZk/v1/1200x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    There’s a lot of Jews I like, including the way they look, but they’re not a people renowned for their physical beauty, which is odd because many look basically Italian.

    “Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent”

    Ah yes, the man that Andrew Anglin et al have been persuaded to think is beating their hated “ZOG” is actually Jewish.

    Certainly a people more successful than most, which I admire, even as this one would ideally be shuffled off this existence.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/mercenary-linked-putin-ally-lashes-dying-out-western-civilization/

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Hard for me to judge the attractiveness of men, but really didn't mean to say those two look as most ugliest imaginable specimens of that gender, lol

    However speaking of potential michaeljacksoning in full spectre, there is a book "Putinburg" by Dmitry Zapolsky, where one of the chapters is called "Pedophile Zhenechka" while telling a story about early 90's in former Leningrad. Allegedly former career criminal Prigozhin, who became restaurant owning "businessman" after fall of communism, got so close with young Putin from that time, because they both had the same sexual deviancies.


    Zapolsky is a well-known St. Petersburg journalist specializing in crime. Working on television in the 90s, he witnessed how Putin and other current rulers of Russia went to the heights of power, how billionaires close to Putin laid the foundations for their fabulous fortunes, and how and for what St. Petersburg received the nickname "gangster."

    These are not so much memoirs as the author's personal impressions and portraits of people, thanks to which modern Russia has turned into a new imperial monster. Zapolsky's heroes sell their consciences, kill each other, die for a wad of dollars, lie down in St. Petersburg land, where the curse of humankind, notorious as "Putinism", grows. As a result, the narrative became an action- only one difference from the classic detective story: the criminals who survived managed to escape punishment.packed detective story, like Russia's entire modern history.

    "Every day, armored jeeps of Tambov leaders drove into the gate. Heroes of the criminal chronicle of gangster St. Petersburg walked through the park, officials from the mayor's office or the government of Russia, the governor of the Leningrad region, State Duma deputies, bankers, industrialists, influential security officials came to them. I saw there Galina Starovoitova, Lyudmila Narusova, Sobchak and Putin. The Russian Video was the assembly point of the new government. After all, where else can the Tambov leaders and vice-mayors have a chat over a glass of Hennessy XO? Behind the high fence of the government residence. Under the canopy of old maples, without prying eyes and unnecessary microphones. The Russian Video also had its own security service, headed by retired KGB colonel Grunin. He was smart and reckless.

    At one time, more than ten key employees, who mostly had access to the company's financial affairs, died one after another in The Russian Video. From asthma, from a heart attack, in strange accidents due to failure of the car brakes, due to generally incomprehensible heart attacks and strokes. All young, healthy, strong people. They said that all these deaths were on the conscience of the KGB.
     
    https://charter97.org/en/news/2020/10/20/397675/

    Surprisingly (or not) roughly a year after writing all this, 62 y.o. Zapolsky also died from blood clot while visiting in Riga:

    https://www.world-today-news.com/the-death-was-sudden-the-author-of-the-book-putinburg-gordon-died-in-riga/

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

  853. @Beckow
    @AP


    This means elimination of all pro-Western parties
     
    No it doesn't. When you jump the shark and claim nonsense like that you lose credibility. That is simply idiotic and you know it.

    80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.
     
    No they wouldn't - about 20% would leave permanently. The lands are quite empty already.

    If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria.
     
    You are back to your "if"...these made up what-if scenarios are not real - as I told you before you may as well do what-if on the Italian cousine without tomatoes. We live in a real world and there is no need to do absurd made-up convoluted analogies.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US...that will not happen w Ukraine, US is not as dominantly rich as it was then, and it would piss off the natives (I mean in America). There is also the work ethic issue.


    odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.
     
    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%, with the war they dropped to under 20% or less - the same odds as Russia losing the war. Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato - that is the reason for the war. Your inability to understand this is puzzling, you are either a committed propagandist (so you will lie about what you know), or you really are that stupid and unable to understand what is a simple situation.

    Replies: @216, @LatW, @AP

    There is also the work ethic issue.

    They work hard when they are motivated and properly managed. Plus they don’t need to be like Germans or Asians that way, and still have a decent living standard.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...still have a decent living standard
     
    Pretty much everyone has a "decent" living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now. The swarthy thieving Romanians also have an ok life. Decent is not much to aspire to...it is a given when there is peace and markets.

    I forgot to mention corruption, Kiev is in a category of its own - there is really no comparison w Germany or Korea. I think we would all agree with that.

    Replies: @LatW

  854. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I hope my comment did not come across as hateful. It is not with hatred that I describe Russians as having been twisted in terms of their political culture and relation to power. Hatred is of course a harmful emotion. Anger on the other hand can be very useful in limited doses.

    I haven't had love ones or neighbors die in this war (as is the case for many in Ukraine) nor has my life or that of loved ones been placed in danger at the hands of Russians, so I don't have a visceral hatred of Russia or Russians. I wish Russia didn't invade and don't rejoice at the deaths of Russian soldiers, but better those invaders die than our people, being invaded. I'm still in touch with friends in Moscow, some of whom support the war (one is a retired general's daughter, can't blame her for supporting her military; for her its about geopolitics, she doesn't believe bullshit about Nazis or NATO missiles like some morons here do). But my cousins in Ukraine have cut all ties. One of my cousins was even a strong Russophile after Maidan - we Ukrainians and Russians are one people, Ukrainians used to call themselves Rus, she would tell me. After her city east of the Dnipro was bombed and numerous civilians killed for nu reason she refers to Russians as inhuman (neliudy). It would be very hard to be in Ukraine and to not be be hateful towards Russians. This hatred will permanently separate the two peoples, which in the long run is probably a good thing, Ukraine has not done well when united with Russia. Let the Russians keep their Peters, Catherines, Lenins and Stalins to themselves, please. After the hatred passes into indifference, the boundary will be strong and taken for granted. But there is some good in addition to the evil - Ukrainians have reunited with their Polish brothers. Let that bond grow stronger.

    You didn't answer if you had a chance to read the Bykov novel (I am genuinely curious about your impression, if you have done so).

    Replies: @216, @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    These Russian concerns you mentioned are actually ALL relevant and all true. If your friend’s daughter has not figured this out yet, please forward this comment.

    AP wrote “…its about geopolitics, she doesn’t believe [nonsense] about Nazis or NATO missiles…”

    Geopolitics is the most important aspect but is difficult for most people to engage with, even amongst the vaunted Unz commentariat. The other aspects are true as well, but if they were standalone issues might not seem quite so serious. Reacting to them as if they are standalone issues is silly at best.

    In this case the NeoNazis and the nearby missiles are the gut level exemplification of what the geopolitics is all about. Outside forces want to degrade and destroy Russia, same as always. They plan to use hateful ideological thugs and missiles, as expected. Most people don’t have the interest or intellect or energy to think through the geopolitics with many angles and byzantine complexities. They understand NeoNazis and missiles.

    I wish you guys would stop pretending to not understand this. Maybe you give it a lower weighting of importance, but please tell me you understand this!

    Sometimes when these situations come to a head one side has to invent a Nazi or a commie hiding under every rock. The fact that Jewish interests have accepted and nurtured these NeoNazi groups in ANY way is so cynical and arrogant it makes me laugh. It also supports the idea that outside forces simply want Ukraine and Russia to destroy themselves and don’t give a rat’s ass about any Slav.

    Great job, morons.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  855. @Leaves No Shadow
    @sudden death

    There's a lot of Jews I like, including the way they look, but they're not a people renowned for their physical beauty, which is odd because many look basically Italian.

    "Prigozhin, whose father and stepfather were of Jewish descent"

    Ah yes, the man that Andrew Anglin et al have been persuaded to think is beating their hated "ZOG" is actually Jewish.

    Certainly a people more successful than most, which I admire, even as this one would ideally be shuffled off this existence.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/mercenary-linked-putin-ally-lashes-dying-out-western-civilization/

    Replies: @sudden death

    Hard for me to judge the attractiveness of men, but really didn’t mean to say those two look as most ugliest imaginable specimens of that gender, lol

    However speaking of potential michaeljacksoning in full spectre, there is a book “Putinburg” by Dmitry Zapolsky, where one of the chapters is called “Pedophile Zhenechka” while telling a story about early 90’s in former Leningrad. Allegedly former career criminal Prigozhin, who became restaurant owning “businessman” after fall of communism, got so close with young Putin from that time, because they both had the same sexual deviancies.

    Zapolsky is a well-known St. Petersburg journalist specializing in crime. Working on television in the 90s, he witnessed how Putin and other current rulers of Russia went to the heights of power, how billionaires close to Putin laid the foundations for their fabulous fortunes, and how and for what St. Petersburg received the nickname “gangster.”

    These are not so much memoirs as the author’s personal impressions and portraits of people, thanks to which modern Russia has turned into a new imperial monster. Zapolsky’s heroes sell their consciences, kill each other, die for a wad of dollars, lie down in St. Petersburg land, where the curse of humankind, notorious as “Putinism”, grows. As a result, the narrative became an action- only one difference from the classic detective story: the criminals who survived managed to escape punishment.packed detective story, like Russia’s entire modern history.

    “Every day, armored jeeps of Tambov leaders drove into the gate. Heroes of the criminal chronicle of gangster St. Petersburg walked through the park, officials from the mayor’s office or the government of Russia, the governor of the Leningrad region, State Duma deputies, bankers, industrialists, influential security officials came to them. I saw there Galina Starovoitova, Lyudmila Narusova, Sobchak and Putin. The Russian Video was the assembly point of the new government. After all, where else can the Tambov leaders and vice-mayors have a chat over a glass of Hennessy XO? Behind the high fence of the government residence. Under the canopy of old maples, without prying eyes and unnecessary microphones. The Russian Video also had its own security service, headed by retired KGB colonel Grunin. He was smart and reckless.

    At one time, more than ten key employees, who mostly had access to the company’s financial affairs, died one after another in The Russian Video. From asthma, from a heart attack, in strange accidents due to failure of the car brakes, due to generally incomprehensible heart attacks and strokes. All young, healthy, strong people. They said that all these deaths were on the conscience of the KGB.

    https://charter97.org/en/news/2020/10/20/397675/

    Surprisingly (or not) roughly a year after writing all this, 62 y.o. Zapolsky also died from blood clot while visiting in Riga:

    https://www.world-today-news.com/the-death-was-sudden-the-author-of-the-book-putinburg-gordon-died-in-riga/

    • Thanks: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @sudden death

    I saw "Putin's Chef" last name spelled as Prigogine, but don't know if this is a valid translation.

    Supposing it is correct, is he related to the brilliant Ilya Prigogine?

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    I recommend Zapol'skyi's books. He was a first hand witness of Pynya's rise to power. Of note, Zapol'skyi has implied on more than one occasion that Putin was a German agent recruited by the BND when he was still serving as a KGB officer in Dresden. Zapol'skyi told that he has seen a video recording of Putin transferring some microfilm files in a matchbox to a West German operative. Supposedly, Putin has been linked to the BND by his lover who was also a good friend of his wife and who got pregnant from VVP before being repatriated to West Germany after having worked in Dresden as a Russian translator for the Stasi - KGB liaison office. Putin might have been promoted in Leningrad to favor Germany's interests, which he did.

  856. @AP
    @Beckow


    "Poles are our brothers."

    Really? I saw the Volyn movie, brutal…not exactly brotherly behaviour.
     
    Fratricidal wars can be brutal. Remember when German Protestants an Catholics were killing each other?

    Bot Volyn was 80 years ago. Long before that, Ukrainians and Poles together burned Moscow. And defeated the Ottoman Empire:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khotyn_(1621)

    Russians and their lackeys - you - desperately bring up Volyn because you are motivated to divide Ukrainians an Poles. Understandably so.

    But more recently, as Russians have been murdering Ukrainians, Poland had provided shelter to million of its Ukrainians sisters and children.

    Another infantilism you display here, quite awkward.
     
    Nothing infantile or awkward about brotherhood. You just wouldn't understand it, you only understand servitude.

    Polish Cardinal Dziwisz:

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2022-03/poland-dziwisz-krakow-ukrainian-refugees-nuns.html

    “A great solidarity has been created in an unexpected show of fraternity that treats Ukrainians as true brothers,"

    A Polish hero fighting in Ukraine:

    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085544653/polands-history-with-russia-has-inspired-some-poles-to-join-the-fight-in-ukraine

    " Part of Ukraine used to be Polish before World War II. So Polish people and Ukrainian, we are like brothers and sisters, like a family."

    Zelensky: "Without a free Ukraine, there can be no free Poland. I know historians often argue about who was the first to say this, who was the author of this phrase. We have resolved this dispute - this is the will of the Ukrainian and Polish nations. Thank you brothers! "

    "De-Russification has accelerated. They are writing about total purge of Russian now, replacing it with Polish."

    Writing? They put that kind of crazy fascist stuff in writing? You will rue the day these pathological hatreds took over the society
     
    No, it is healthy and good for Ukraine to undergo complete de-Russification, as is now progressing nicely, with no brakes.

    But you can’t “purge” ethnicity in 2023 – it would take a genocide or 2-3 generation
     
    It isn't genocide when Russian-speaking Ukrainians take the clean break and switch to their ancestral Ukrainian. Russia has driven many Russian-speaking families to western Ukraine or Poland, where their kids come home from school speaking Ukrainian (Poland has Ukrainian not Russian-speaking schools for the Ukrainian kids). All these kids from Kharkiv and Zaporizhia are coming home from school in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk as Ukrainian-speakers. Even those parents for whom it is hard to make the switch personally, are happy that their children naturally no longer speak the language of the invaders. Russian is no longer seen as the language of Pushkin, but the language of murderous thieves. Even in Russian-speaking Kiev or Kharkiv. (no different from what happened to the perception of the Ukrainian language in Luhansk, as AnoninTN observed).

    Our former host admits as much. The result will be a monoculture. The only question is if this monoculture will extend to the February 2022 territory, to the current line of contact (most likely IMO), or to the Dnipro, or be limited to Galicia plus Volyn. See below the "more" tag.

    People’s emotions are fleeting
     
    Even AnoninTN admits Ukrainians will not forgive Russians for 2-3 generations. He fears that if the war drags on too long it will take 4 generations.

    Let’s have a benchmark:
    if Russia gets over 30% of Ukraine in 1991 borders it is a big win: farm lands, Azov Sea, Crimea, Donbas…
     
    You conveniently choose an easy benchmark.

    A big win for Russia would be if achieves its stated aims: occupies Kiev, establishes a puppet regime, dual-language, demilitarization, etc. This is exactly what you expected to happen last year. And what Putin said the goals were.

    A draw would be if Russia takes all of Zaporizhia and Kherson and Donbas (like the maps they now sell in Moscow), but in exchange the rest of Ukraine stays militarized, is completely de-Russified, and joins the EU.

    Anything between these two would be win for Russia, of varying extent. Such as the above, but Russia takes a destroyed and depopulated Kharkiv too (small win). Or Russia takes Odessa but the rest joins EU, stays militarized, gets de-Russified (bigger win).

    A big win for Ukraine would be return to Feb 2022 borders (plus northern Crimea) plus militarization, EU, de-Russification, etc. I think taking all of Donbas or all of Crimea would be a loss for Ukraine - who needs all those ethnic Russian people? I don't support mass deportation and ethnic cleansing. I am not a Russian.

    Anything between that and the draw - such as if the new border matches the current line of contact - would be a win for Ukraine, provided that Ukraine keeps its army, integrates with/joins the EU, and erases the Russian language and culture from its territory except as a marginal minority one for 5%.

    I would add the most important benchmark, the economy: Ukraine had $200 billion GNP in 2021 and it dropped by 30% in 2022
     
    About 20% of the population has fled abroad so per capita that is not as extreme of a drop as it seems. Probably a 90% drop in Kherson, 70% in Kharkiv. Lots of businesses have moved to Lviv from Kharkiv, I wonder if there has even been a drop in that province?

    https://ukraine.iom.int/stories/economic-crisis-catalyst-growth-business-kharkiv-takes-roots-lviv

    If by 2024 Russia has 3-times Ukies’s GNP/capita, they win – if Ukies are catching up it is a loss for Russia.
     
    Any comparisons should be for at least 1-2 years after the war ends.



    https://twitter.com/powerfultakes/status/1622893335370207232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Escreen-name%3Apowerfultakes%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c12

    Replies: @Beckow, @QCIC

    I think anything less than repatriating everything East of the Dnepr and across to Odessa along the coast is a failure for Russia. Kiev will be included somehow. I don’t believe Crimea will ever be grabbed by Ukraine short of a WW3 scenario. I think anyone who brings it up is either foolish or a bloodthirsty monster.

    The disposition of Ukrainian territory West of the River is a more interesting question. I don’t know enough to speculate very much. Since the Russians don’t see the West as agreement or treaty capable it puts serious pressure on them to turn Western Ukraine into a large demilitarized buffer zone.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Imagine watching Russia fail to take Bakhmut for a almost a year and thinking they could "demilitarise" anything. Lol. Nevermind take Kharkhiv, Kherson and Odessa, as well as Kyiv! What glue have you been sniffing?

    Whereas Ukraine merely has to do what it did with Kherson to Crimea to secure Crimea.

    With Prigozhin saying Russia needs 2 years to get the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk, at the expense of the South in negotiations probably, how many years do you envisage for them to take a serious city like Kharkhiv, nevermind Kyiv? 100? 1000? Will they even have taken Vulehdar, a settlement of irrelevant size?

    You people are so delusional.

    Replies: @QCIC

  857. @LatW
    @AP


    Lviv is actually closer to Berlin than is Vilnius.
     
    Keep in mind that Vilnius receives quite significant investment from the Nordic countries. So it's not all about Berlin. Just a small detail, it doesn't change the big picture (your overall argument might be correct and there could be more prosperity in Ukraine eventually, especially Western Ukraine, Dei gratia), but important to note when making comparisons.

    Speaking of Berlin, apparently Rhein Metal wants to open a factory in Ukraine after the war to make Panther tanks. If they're even as entertaining such plans, it means they anticipate enough peace to be able to cooperate at that level

    By the way, the recent reception of Ze at the European Parliament was very warm, might be meaningful.

    Replies: @AP

    Speaking of Berlin, apparently Rhein Metal wants to open a factory in Ukraine after the war to make Panther tanks. If they’re even as entertaining such plans, it means they anticipate enough peace to be able to cooperate at that level

    And if it happens, the place will be Kiev, not Kharkiv (the traditional tank-building city). Part of the westward moves within Ukraine.

  858. @216
    @QCIC

    The Turkish ground troops entered Syria in defiance of Russia's vassal, and Russia hasn't been able to force them out. Similarly, Polish troops could enter Ukraine in support of the government, and Russia probably won't be able to force them out.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Nothing in Syria is simple. I think Russia is there strictly for combat practice. As long as Russia has close ties with both Israel and Turkey there is not much she can do.

    I think some Russians would like to support Syria and give protection from her drooling neighbors. They are not strong enough at the moment to achieve very much. The possibilities may be different in 20 years after Ukraine has become re-integrated with Russia.

  859. @QCIC
    @AP

    I think anything less than repatriating everything East of the Dnepr and across to Odessa along the coast is a failure for Russia. Kiev will be included somehow. I don't believe Crimea will ever be grabbed by Ukraine short of a WW3 scenario. I think anyone who brings it up is either foolish or a bloodthirsty monster.

    The disposition of Ukrainian territory West of the River is a more interesting question. I don't know enough to speculate very much. Since the Russians don't see the West as agreement or treaty capable it puts serious pressure on them to turn Western Ukraine into a large demilitarized buffer zone.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Imagine watching Russia fail to take Bakhmut for a almost a year and thinking they could “demilitarise” anything. Lol. Nevermind take Kharkhiv, Kherson and Odessa, as well as Kyiv! What glue have you been sniffing?

    Whereas Ukraine merely has to do what it did with Kherson to Crimea to secure Crimea.

    With Prigozhin saying Russia needs 2 years to get the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk, at the expense of the South in negotiations probably, how many years do you envisage for them to take a serious city like Kharkhiv, nevermind Kyiv? 100? 1000? Will they even have taken Vulehdar, a settlement of irrelevant size?

    You people are so delusional.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Russia has to fight until sensible people in Kiev capitulate. Then poof, the fighting is 90% over.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow

  860. @Beckow
    @AP


    This means elimination of all pro-Western parties
     
    No it doesn't. When you jump the shark and claim nonsense like that you lose credibility. That is simply idiotic and you know it.

    80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.
     
    No they wouldn't - about 20% would leave permanently. The lands are quite empty already.

    If Slovakia were as poor as Ukraine and Hungary were like Austria.
     
    You are back to your "if"...these made up what-if scenarios are not real - as I told you before you may as well do what-if on the Italian cousine without tomatoes. We live in a real world and there is no need to do absurd made-up convoluted analogies.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US...that will not happen w Ukraine, US is not as dominantly rich as it was then, and it would piss off the natives (I mean in America). There is also the work ethic issue.


    odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.
     
    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%, with the war they dropped to under 20% or less - the same odds as Russia losing the war. Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato - that is the reason for the war. Your inability to understand this is puzzling, you are either a committed propagandist (so you will lie about what you know), or you really are that stupid and unable to understand what is a simple situation.

    Replies: @216, @LatW, @AP

    “This means elimination of all pro-Western parties”

    No it doesn’t

    Yes it does – the Kremlin regards them as Nazi parties. Even Zelensky is regarded as a Nazi.

    This means that the only parties to be allowed will be a resurrected Party of Regions, Communists, and any Russian nationalist parties (including fascist ones, of course).

    You think any other kind of party is allowed in Crimea, Donbas or occupied Zaporizhia?

    “80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion.”

    No they wouldn’t – about 20% would leave permanently.

    Only about one half to one third of people remained in Kherson, Melitopol, etc. under Russian occupation. But these people did not have much time to pack and flee before the Russians came in. And these regions are less nationalistic than others.

    If Russia grabs more territory, the percentage of people willing to live under Russian rule decrease. Between the combination of mass casualties/mass resistance, and escape, the Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine will have 10% to 20% of its original inhabitants. Many of those will move to free Ukraine, Poland, Western Europe, America, Canada. Ukrainians hate Russia and Russian rule. They won’t choose to live in a bombed out wasteland with Russian and Chechen overlords, rather than staying getting asylum and living in the West or living in the free Ukraine which is on its way to the EU.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US…that will not happen w Ukraine

    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population and will be largely reconstructed using money taken from frozen Russian assets. Ukraine within current line of control has perhaps around half of South Korea’s population.

    There is also the work ethic issue.

    Ukrainians work harder than most western Europeans, probably harder than Germans.

    “odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war.”

    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%

    I remember how after 2014 and prior to 2021 Russians and their lackeys were bragging that Ukraine would never get into NATO because NATO doesn’t accept countries with territorial disputes, and Ukraine claimed Donbas and Crimea. Too dangerous. It was part of the brilliance of seizing those territories. But now you pretend that didn’t matter.

    with the war they dropped to under 20%

    With the war, grew to 25% but 20% is also possible, why not.

    Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato – that is the reason for the war.

    There has been no real war for 7 years after Maidan and no NATO membership. Nor would there have been for another 7 years. In 20 years, 50 years – who knows?

    Thanks to the war Ukrainians have proven that they can fight well, that they can use NATO equipment well, and their military is now NATO ready and compatible. Close training and camaraderie between NATO and Ukrainian troops have also made a difference. Before the war, Ukraine was neither de facto nor de jure a NATO country, now it is very close to being a de facto one. So the odds have increased, though they are still well below 50%.

    Total Russian defeat (unlikely) would increase the odds to 80% though.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    Let just agree to disagree. You simply spout Ukie feel-good slogans, some of them outright lies, some just meaningless flights of fancy. Not a serious stuff.

    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato, that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training, joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov) - all of it was being put in place. Like an idiot you choose to ignore it - or worse, like a desperate propagandist caught lying.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato - if you pretend that is not the case you are like an ostrich. It is impossible to have a rational discussion w someone who consistently denies the obvious. Try a bit of critical thinking, it may enlighten you.


    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population
     
    What? How small exactly are you planning for this "free Ukieland" to be? I am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people? Or less? I don't think you realize that you are de facto dreaming of destruction of Ukraine as a viable, large nation - in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people. And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much...pathetic.

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe - a destruction of a nation. These quasi-Nazi dreams you have are sick. It goes well with you mono-lingual ethnic-cleansing idiocy. Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or "transition").

    Replies: @216, @AP

  861. @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Imagine watching Russia fail to take Bakhmut for a almost a year and thinking they could "demilitarise" anything. Lol. Nevermind take Kharkhiv, Kherson and Odessa, as well as Kyiv! What glue have you been sniffing?

    Whereas Ukraine merely has to do what it did with Kherson to Crimea to secure Crimea.

    With Prigozhin saying Russia needs 2 years to get the rest of Donetsk and Luhansk, at the expense of the South in negotiations probably, how many years do you envisage for them to take a serious city like Kharkhiv, nevermind Kyiv? 100? 1000? Will they even have taken Vulehdar, a settlement of irrelevant size?

    You people are so delusional.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Russia has to fight until sensible people in Kiev capitulate. Then poof, the fighting is 90% over.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @QCIC

    But what are the terms that Putin would accept? We know that at minimum he'd want all of the Donbas plus Odessa, and Putin would further demand for Ukraine to "demilitarize" ala 1940 France. The problem is that no Ukrainian government will ever accept that.

    And why should Putin accept any terms when he believes he can dictate the terms he wants if he continues to fight?


    One of the most interesting wars in all of history is the Iran/Iraq war. Russia's position feels very similar to the position of 1980's Iran. Khomenei was willing to fight forever and he had the resources, manpower and strategic depth to do just that. But eventually his own guys, even the hardliners, told him he had to accept a ceasefire.

    That's how this is gonna end. Let's just hope it doesn't take another 7 years.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Ukrainians just need to stay under arms until sensible people in Moscow decide to bring their army home, stop humiliating themselves and putting a black mark on the soul of their nation.

    Then poof, the fighting is over.

    And I can promise you that Ukrainians will outlast Putin and his cronies in Ukraine.



    On a different note, geopolitics is probably over. America has won. The US is totally dominant in AI, and LLMs can now self-improve, making progress beyond belief. Were the world a gane of Civillisation, the US would be moments from the victory achievement and everyone else many years from the same. If you think the internet changed things, just wait until something better than all of us at every cognitive process, but actual reflective thought, is here. Most jobs and endeavours don't require actual reflective thought, so just a tiny number of people will be near infinitely more productive than everyone else. It is going to get weird.

    E.g we are months away from AI being able to US surveillance technology to predict every single Russian position and military move and missile, and instantly send up a coordinated response, including responses perfectly set up to avoid Russian detection and response. I don't know if they are training AI for that, but they could quite easily.

    Replies: @QCIC

  862. @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Hard for me to judge the attractiveness of men, but really didn't mean to say those two look as most ugliest imaginable specimens of that gender, lol

    However speaking of potential michaeljacksoning in full spectre, there is a book "Putinburg" by Dmitry Zapolsky, where one of the chapters is called "Pedophile Zhenechka" while telling a story about early 90's in former Leningrad. Allegedly former career criminal Prigozhin, who became restaurant owning "businessman" after fall of communism, got so close with young Putin from that time, because they both had the same sexual deviancies.


    Zapolsky is a well-known St. Petersburg journalist specializing in crime. Working on television in the 90s, he witnessed how Putin and other current rulers of Russia went to the heights of power, how billionaires close to Putin laid the foundations for their fabulous fortunes, and how and for what St. Petersburg received the nickname "gangster."

    These are not so much memoirs as the author's personal impressions and portraits of people, thanks to which modern Russia has turned into a new imperial monster. Zapolsky's heroes sell their consciences, kill each other, die for a wad of dollars, lie down in St. Petersburg land, where the curse of humankind, notorious as "Putinism", grows. As a result, the narrative became an action- only one difference from the classic detective story: the criminals who survived managed to escape punishment.packed detective story, like Russia's entire modern history.

    "Every day, armored jeeps of Tambov leaders drove into the gate. Heroes of the criminal chronicle of gangster St. Petersburg walked through the park, officials from the mayor's office or the government of Russia, the governor of the Leningrad region, State Duma deputies, bankers, industrialists, influential security officials came to them. I saw there Galina Starovoitova, Lyudmila Narusova, Sobchak and Putin. The Russian Video was the assembly point of the new government. After all, where else can the Tambov leaders and vice-mayors have a chat over a glass of Hennessy XO? Behind the high fence of the government residence. Under the canopy of old maples, without prying eyes and unnecessary microphones. The Russian Video also had its own security service, headed by retired KGB colonel Grunin. He was smart and reckless.

    At one time, more than ten key employees, who mostly had access to the company's financial affairs, died one after another in The Russian Video. From asthma, from a heart attack, in strange accidents due to failure of the car brakes, due to generally incomprehensible heart attacks and strokes. All young, healthy, strong people. They said that all these deaths were on the conscience of the KGB.
     
    https://charter97.org/en/news/2020/10/20/397675/

    Surprisingly (or not) roughly a year after writing all this, 62 y.o. Zapolsky also died from blood clot while visiting in Riga:

    https://www.world-today-news.com/the-death-was-sudden-the-author-of-the-book-putinburg-gordon-died-in-riga/

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    I saw “Putin’s Chef” last name spelled as Prigogine, but don’t know if this is a valid translation.

    Supposing it is correct, is he related to the brilliant Ilya Prigogine?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @QCIC

    Spelling and writing of this Jewish surname is the same in Russian in both cases despite bit different writing in English, don't know nothing about the possible relation, but won't be surprised much if more or less distant bond is real.

  863. @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Russia has to fight until sensible people in Kiev capitulate. Then poof, the fighting is 90% over.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow

    But what are the terms that Putin would accept? We know that at minimum he’d want all of the Donbas plus Odessa, and Putin would further demand for Ukraine to “demilitarize” ala 1940 France. The problem is that no Ukrainian government will ever accept that.

    And why should Putin accept any terms when he believes he can dictate the terms he wants if he continues to fight?

    One of the most interesting wars in all of history is the Iran/Iraq war. Russia’s position feels very similar to the position of 1980’s Iran. Khomenei was willing to fight forever and he had the resources, manpower and strategic depth to do just that. But eventually his own guys, even the hardliners, told him he had to accept a ceasefire.

    That’s how this is gonna end. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take another 7 years.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Iraq invaded Iran if that’s what you meant.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    , @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    I think Russia (and Putin) needs near total capitulation simply so this doesn't flare up again in 5 years. The public version of the post-SMO situation may seem more balanced than it really is as a concession to Ukraine's supporters.

    I hope they help Ukraine rebuild organically and not allow the country to be preyed upon by "carpet baggers" from all over. Time will tell.

    What is the main similarity in your view between the Iran-Iraq war and the SMO? I don't know much about it, though it doesn't seem fundamentally similar to the SMO. Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?

    Replies: @Greasy William

  864. @QCIC
    @sudden death

    I saw "Putin's Chef" last name spelled as Prigogine, but don't know if this is a valid translation.

    Supposing it is correct, is he related to the brilliant Ilya Prigogine?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Spelling and writing of this Jewish surname is the same in Russian in both cases despite bit different writing in English, don’t know nothing about the possible relation, but won’t be surprised much if more or less distant bond is real.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Thanks: QCIC
  865. @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Russia has to fight until sensible people in Kiev capitulate. Then poof, the fighting is 90% over.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow

    Ukrainians just need to stay under arms until sensible people in Moscow decide to bring their army home, stop humiliating themselves and putting a black mark on the soul of their nation.

    Then poof, the fighting is over.

    And I can promise you that Ukrainians will outlast Putin and his cronies in Ukraine.

    [MORE]

    On a different note, geopolitics is probably over. America has won. The US is totally dominant in AI, and LLMs can now self-improve, making progress beyond belief. Were the world a gane of Civillisation, the US would be moments from the victory achievement and everyone else many years from the same. If you think the internet changed things, just wait until something better than all of us at every cognitive process, but actual reflective thought, is here. Most jobs and endeavours don’t require actual reflective thought, so just a tiny number of people will be near infinitely more productive than everyone else. It is going to get weird.

    E.g we are months away from AI being able to US surveillance technology to predict every single Russian position and military move and missile, and instantly send up a coordinated response, including responses perfectly set up to avoid Russian detection and response. I don’t know if they are training AI for that, but they could quite easily.

    • LOL: Mikhail
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, I think AI could rapidly destroy civilization as we know it. Perhaps there is a chance it will be stopped in time. As you say, the time is near, if not passed.

    I do think AI is overrated and the "creativity" of an AI is no match for actual human creativity. Unfortunately, not enough strong people have realized this is a battle for existence.

    I have a notion that the one universal idea all alien civilizations agree on is that digital computers (and any comparable technology) must always be destroyed as soon as they are found.

  866. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I hope my comment did not come across as hateful. It is not with hatred that I describe Russians as having been twisted in terms of their political culture and relation to power. Hatred is of course a harmful emotion. Anger on the other hand can be very useful in limited doses.

    I haven't had love ones or neighbors die in this war (as is the case for many in Ukraine) nor has my life or that of loved ones been placed in danger at the hands of Russians, so I don't have a visceral hatred of Russia or Russians. I wish Russia didn't invade and don't rejoice at the deaths of Russian soldiers, but better those invaders die than our people, being invaded. I'm still in touch with friends in Moscow, some of whom support the war (one is a retired general's daughter, can't blame her for supporting her military; for her its about geopolitics, she doesn't believe bullshit about Nazis or NATO missiles like some morons here do). But my cousins in Ukraine have cut all ties. One of my cousins was even a strong Russophile after Maidan - we Ukrainians and Russians are one people, Ukrainians used to call themselves Rus, she would tell me. After her city east of the Dnipro was bombed and numerous civilians killed for nu reason she refers to Russians as inhuman (neliudy). It would be very hard to be in Ukraine and to not be be hateful towards Russians. This hatred will permanently separate the two peoples, which in the long run is probably a good thing, Ukraine has not done well when united with Russia. Let the Russians keep their Peters, Catherines, Lenins and Stalins to themselves, please. After the hatred passes into indifference, the boundary will be strong and taken for granted. But there is some good in addition to the evil - Ukrainians have reunited with their Polish brothers. Let that bond grow stronger.

    You didn't answer if you had a chance to read the Bykov novel (I am genuinely curious about your impression, if you have done so).

    Replies: @216, @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    I don’t really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what “patriotic pensioners” write on some Russian Telegram channels. Same accusations of “betrayal” and “inhumanity” leveled against the whole Ukrainian population. Same ardor in supporting “our people”, same “spiritual” grandstanding. When I comment about this war being disgusting and lacking anything noble about it, the “patriotic babushkas and dedushkas” express the same “moral outrage”. Entirely predictable from people who like categorizing and eschew intuitive perception and complex and granular thinking.

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : “You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?”. He answered: “Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn’t kill anyone.” Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.

    I was young back then and I had a hard time understanding how someone could not feel hatred towards those who invaded one’s country and killed one’s people in the millions. I understand better now.

    About the book, I haven’t read any by Zil’bertrud (Bykov). I find the personage antipathic despite him being a supposedly talented writer.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    I don’t really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what “patriotic pensioners” write on some Russian Telegram channels.
     
    Well, the Russian patriotic pensioners are supporting an invader, Ukrainians support the one being invaded.

    You don't think that this fundamentally changes the meaning of what is said?

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : “You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?”. He answered: “Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn’t kill anyone.” Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.
     
    The troubling thing is that not killing any of the invaders meant that more of his own people would be killed, by those invaders not killed. Only if one considers the Nazi invaders and the Soviet defenders to be equal in their purposes (or if one prefers the Nazi invaders) does this desire to avoid harming them in the context of the war when they are killing Soviets seem correct.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  867. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    On the surface the hatred can actually feel good but underneath it is making you more miserable without you even realizing it.

     

    You have to transcend ardent hatred into rationality. Do not wallow in hatred, only use little bits of it to inspire yourself and remind yourself of what has been committed against you. Then transcend the hatred into cold rationality and then action. It's like forging a sword - first, the steel is red, burning hot, but eventually it turns into hard, silvery, cold steel.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Depends what the end goal is. If one wishes self- affirmation then yes, sublimation of hatred is useful. If one wishes transcending one’s self, then letting go of hatred is best.

  868. @Greasy William
    @QCIC

    But what are the terms that Putin would accept? We know that at minimum he'd want all of the Donbas plus Odessa, and Putin would further demand for Ukraine to "demilitarize" ala 1940 France. The problem is that no Ukrainian government will ever accept that.

    And why should Putin accept any terms when he believes he can dictate the terms he wants if he continues to fight?


    One of the most interesting wars in all of history is the Iran/Iraq war. Russia's position feels very similar to the position of 1980's Iran. Khomenei was willing to fight forever and he had the resources, manpower and strategic depth to do just that. But eventually his own guys, even the hardliners, told him he had to accept a ceasefire.

    That's how this is gonna end. Let's just hope it doesn't take another 7 years.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    Iraq invaded Iran if that’s what you meant.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Wokechoke

    Yeah, but when the invasion failed, Saddam offered peace based on the status quo antebellum. Now, technically Zelensky has made no such offer but we all know damn well that if Putin let it be known he would accept that deal, the US would force Zelensky to agree.

  869. @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Hard for me to judge the attractiveness of men, but really didn't mean to say those two look as most ugliest imaginable specimens of that gender, lol

    However speaking of potential michaeljacksoning in full spectre, there is a book "Putinburg" by Dmitry Zapolsky, where one of the chapters is called "Pedophile Zhenechka" while telling a story about early 90's in former Leningrad. Allegedly former career criminal Prigozhin, who became restaurant owning "businessman" after fall of communism, got so close with young Putin from that time, because they both had the same sexual deviancies.


    Zapolsky is a well-known St. Petersburg journalist specializing in crime. Working on television in the 90s, he witnessed how Putin and other current rulers of Russia went to the heights of power, how billionaires close to Putin laid the foundations for their fabulous fortunes, and how and for what St. Petersburg received the nickname "gangster."

    These are not so much memoirs as the author's personal impressions and portraits of people, thanks to which modern Russia has turned into a new imperial monster. Zapolsky's heroes sell their consciences, kill each other, die for a wad of dollars, lie down in St. Petersburg land, where the curse of humankind, notorious as "Putinism", grows. As a result, the narrative became an action- only one difference from the classic detective story: the criminals who survived managed to escape punishment.packed detective story, like Russia's entire modern history.

    "Every day, armored jeeps of Tambov leaders drove into the gate. Heroes of the criminal chronicle of gangster St. Petersburg walked through the park, officials from the mayor's office or the government of Russia, the governor of the Leningrad region, State Duma deputies, bankers, industrialists, influential security officials came to them. I saw there Galina Starovoitova, Lyudmila Narusova, Sobchak and Putin. The Russian Video was the assembly point of the new government. After all, where else can the Tambov leaders and vice-mayors have a chat over a glass of Hennessy XO? Behind the high fence of the government residence. Under the canopy of old maples, without prying eyes and unnecessary microphones. The Russian Video also had its own security service, headed by retired KGB colonel Grunin. He was smart and reckless.

    At one time, more than ten key employees, who mostly had access to the company's financial affairs, died one after another in The Russian Video. From asthma, from a heart attack, in strange accidents due to failure of the car brakes, due to generally incomprehensible heart attacks and strokes. All young, healthy, strong people. They said that all these deaths were on the conscience of the KGB.
     
    https://charter97.org/en/news/2020/10/20/397675/

    Surprisingly (or not) roughly a year after writing all this, 62 y.o. Zapolsky also died from blood clot while visiting in Riga:

    https://www.world-today-news.com/the-death-was-sudden-the-author-of-the-book-putinburg-gordon-died-in-riga/

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    I recommend Zapol’skyi’s books. He was a first hand witness of Pynya’s rise to power. Of note, Zapol’skyi has implied on more than one occasion that Putin was a German agent recruited by the BND when he was still serving as a KGB officer in Dresden. Zapol’skyi told that he has seen a video recording of Putin transferring some microfilm files in a matchbox to a West German operative. Supposedly, Putin has been linked to the BND by his lover who was also a good friend of his wife and who got pregnant from VVP before being repatriated to West Germany after having worked in Dresden as a Russian translator for the Stasi – KGB liaison office. Putin might have been promoted in Leningrad to favor Germany’s interests, which he did.

  870. @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Iraq invaded Iran if that’s what you meant.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Yeah, but when the invasion failed, Saddam offered peace based on the status quo antebellum. Now, technically Zelensky has made no such offer but we all know damn well that if Putin let it be known he would accept that deal, the US would force Zelensky to agree.

  871. @Greasy William
    @QCIC

    But what are the terms that Putin would accept? We know that at minimum he'd want all of the Donbas plus Odessa, and Putin would further demand for Ukraine to "demilitarize" ala 1940 France. The problem is that no Ukrainian government will ever accept that.

    And why should Putin accept any terms when he believes he can dictate the terms he wants if he continues to fight?


    One of the most interesting wars in all of history is the Iran/Iraq war. Russia's position feels very similar to the position of 1980's Iran. Khomenei was willing to fight forever and he had the resources, manpower and strategic depth to do just that. But eventually his own guys, even the hardliners, told him he had to accept a ceasefire.

    That's how this is gonna end. Let's just hope it doesn't take another 7 years.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @QCIC

    I think Russia (and Putin) needs near total capitulation simply so this doesn’t flare up again in 5 years. The public version of the post-SMO situation may seem more balanced than it really is as a concession to Ukraine’s supporters.

    I hope they help Ukraine rebuild organically and not allow the country to be preyed upon by “carpet baggers” from all over. Time will tell.

    What is the main similarity in your view between the Iran-Iraq war and the SMO? I don’t know much about it, though it doesn’t seem fundamentally similar to the SMO. Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @QCIC


    Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?
     
    At this stage of the war, I see Iraq as a parallel for Ukraine although in the initial part of the war Iraq was more like Russia.

    Iraq invaded Iran in an operation that was supposed to be a walkover. The Iranian regime was seen as an existential threat to Iraq but at the same time Iran was thought to be militarily extremely weak.

    Iraq had some initial success but then completely fell apart due to a mixture of Iranian heroism and Iraqi incompetence. Then Iran counterattacked, pushing Iraq out of Iranian territory and capturing territory in southern Iraq. At this stage Saddam sued for peace based on the status quo ante but Khomeni's regime was in the grips of religious and nationalistic fervor and turned down all peace offerings, demanding nothing less than the end of Saddam's regime.

    For the next 6 years the Iranians would use costly frontal assaults against Iraqs dug in forces, inflicting almost as many casualties as they suffered. These attacks on numerous occasions had initial success but they were never able to achieve operational breakthrough.

    To end the war, Saddam launched missiles at Iranian cities and attacked Iranian tankers in the Persian Gulf. But it wasn't enough. It wasn't even close to enough. Even with anti draft protests breaking out all over Iran, Khomeini was determined to continue the war until the bitter end.

    At this point, it was gently made clear to Saddam by his henchmen that there would be a coup if he did not allow his generals to fight the war properly (Saddam had forbidden different units of the army to have any communication with each other and he required that all orders needed to be routed through Baghdad, this made the type of coordination necessary to succeed in modern war completely impossible; he had actually forbidden to bulk of his army to even engage in training exercises). Saddam, fearing that Iran now poised a greater danger to his rule than his own army (the army of Saddam's Iraq was designed to be coup proof before anything else), relented and took the handcuffs off his general. This was in 1988.

    Overnight things changed. Iraq's massive technological and material superiority, which had done Iraq no good in the first 8 years of the conflict, was finally effectively utilized on the battlefield. The Iraqi army scored a series of lightning victories and drove the Iranian troops out of tracts of Iraqi territory that Iran had successfully held for years. Iraq then conquered a small piece of Iran at which point Saddam again offered Iran based on the status quo ante provided that Iran evacuated the piece of southern Iraq that it still held. Saddam threatened that if Iran did not agree, that Iraq would conquer more Iranian territory.

    Khomeini saw the war as an apocalyptic struggle. He had sent hundreds of thousands of young men to their deaths because this was a cause he believed in to the depths of his soul. But it no longer mattered: now even his most loyal supporters in the regime knew that there was no possibility of victory and that they needed to accept peace. Khomeini was made to realize it was either take the deal or step down (at best) and he (very) reluctantly gave in. Khomeini was actually so devastated that he had to accept the ceasefire that, in his speech announcing it, he basically said that he wished that he himself had been martyred in the war so he could have been spared the pain of having to come to terms with Saddam's Iraq.


    Anyway, obviously far from a 1 to 1 parallel with Ukraine/Russia, but there are similarities. I think what will happen, eventually, is that Ukraine will eventually break through the fortified Russian lines and cut off the landbridge to Crimea. At this point, the US will tell Russia, "accept peace based on the status quo ante or we will allow the Ukrainians to reconquer Crimea". Putin will agree because his own cronies will give him no other choice.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  872. @LatW
    @Sean


    One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world’s most important states
     
    Right, this is probably true. But I've also heard that the Russian officers have a code of honor, based on which they will not use a nuke. But I may be wrong, and not all of them may follow it, obviously.

    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used. Russia doesn't have the means, the economy nor the necessary troops / equipment to fight a nuclear war (as I already mentioned to you, how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained? You responded by saying it would be some "hybrid gesture", just a blast, which I do understand, but you're saying this as if raising the stakes so high would not affect Russia herself at all).


    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons)
     
    There is a possibility that Russia will fight fiercely now and February will be very tough for both sides, but they will wear themselves out by April, May. At that point, Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there (Crimea is a pocket by definition).

    (Please, do not hit the Lastochkino Gnezdo!!) 😢


    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up
     
    These are the kinds of consequences that one should consider BEFORE one issues an ultimatum to the whole West (and then starts doing things that haven't been done since 1945).

    from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin’s) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option
     
    It will depend on how the Russian Deep state feels. If Putin ends up being the only problem, who goes against their interests, they will remove him. I know you're arguing that the Deep State is patriotic, yes, but they also care about their wellbeing. Maybe they don't want to go down in flames.

    Btw, it seems there is some spat going on between Putin and Patrushev (it appears to be over Patrushev's son, but maybe something more). If Patrushev is thinking about the future career of his son, then surely he may be against a nuclear war, even a limited one.


    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?
     
    At that point, when the stakes are raised that high, it won't be just about the US. Both China and India have explicitly said "No nukes". China is even against any talk about using nukes. Russia is now dependent economically on those countries so Russia should care about how this could be perceived by those countries.

    In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia’s very fragility.
     
    This is an interesting aspect, but remember that Russia's fragility is a huge risk to Russia herself (and the Russian population).

    Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger.
     
    Ukraine is not "winning comfortably" but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of "extreme instability and danger" Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.

    Btw, you are using this "nuclear scenario" so much that it's starting to look like some intellectual nuclear fetishism. No offense.

    Replies: @A123, @Sean

    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used.

    Accepted.

    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. Using 20+ high yield, strategic nukes is better than losing.

    Breaking the ability of the Europe Empire to supply Ukie aggression requires burning the rail system and eradicating Black Sea ports including Odessa. Just to make the point clear, pummeling Kiev and/or Lviv is also on the table.

    how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained?

    The land and water are ruined. Why enter it at all? Declare it unsalvageable and move on. That is incredibly easy as a strategic choice.

    Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there

    How will the Ukie Maximalists cross the Dnieper?

    Russia has massive amounts of gear to create pontoon bridges and similar structures. They grasped that supporting their existing beach head on the west bank was so hard, it would not hold.

    The idea of Ukie forces using temporary structures to support an Azov offensive defies the concept of military logistics. The flat, open terrain in the south is where Russia forces have maximum advantage.

    (Crimea is a pocket by definition).

    How is Crimea a military pocket?

    Russia can resupply from the north by land, across the Kerch bridge which includes rail (though this is a fixed target), and by water across either Azov Sea or Black Sea.

    Ukraine is not “winning comfortably” but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of “extreme instability and danger” Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.

    What Kiev regime goals? What Zelensky strategy?

    Again — Putin sincerely believes that Russia is an existential fight for survival as a people.

    Whether you, I, or anyone else agrees with that assessment is irrelevant. Putin and his inner circle believe it. Therefore, Putin is predictable. He cannot accept anything that will not score as a “win” in term of the Russian psyche.

    How can I make this clear in a 100% unambiguous manner? If Putin, or his successor if he goes weak, has two choices:

    -1- Destroy all human life on the planet expending 5,000+ nuclear weapons. Plus, thousands of more U.S. nukes in the inevitable counter strike.

    -2- Losing in Ukraine.

    Ending humanity #1 is the “less bad” option as perceived by the team that can end humanity. If you believe otherwise, you are sadly kidding yourself. The terrifying problem is that Macron and other EU leaders seem to be similarly deluded.
    ___

    I know that speaking for God is problematic. However — If the human race ends itself because Zelensky and Macron are clueless. — Expect Old Testament style wrath.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    I don't think "PEACE" is the correct sign off for this comment!

    Replies: @A123

  873. @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Ukrainians just need to stay under arms until sensible people in Moscow decide to bring their army home, stop humiliating themselves and putting a black mark on the soul of their nation.

    Then poof, the fighting is over.

    And I can promise you that Ukrainians will outlast Putin and his cronies in Ukraine.



    On a different note, geopolitics is probably over. America has won. The US is totally dominant in AI, and LLMs can now self-improve, making progress beyond belief. Were the world a gane of Civillisation, the US would be moments from the victory achievement and everyone else many years from the same. If you think the internet changed things, just wait until something better than all of us at every cognitive process, but actual reflective thought, is here. Most jobs and endeavours don't require actual reflective thought, so just a tiny number of people will be near infinitely more productive than everyone else. It is going to get weird.

    E.g we are months away from AI being able to US surveillance technology to predict every single Russian position and military move and missile, and instantly send up a coordinated response, including responses perfectly set up to avoid Russian detection and response. I don't know if they are training AI for that, but they could quite easily.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Yes, I think AI could rapidly destroy civilization as we know it. Perhaps there is a chance it will be stopped in time. As you say, the time is near, if not passed.

    I do think AI is overrated and the “creativity” of an AI is no match for actual human creativity. Unfortunately, not enough strong people have realized this is a battle for existence.

    I have a notion that the one universal idea all alien civilizations agree on is that digital computers (and any comparable technology) must always be destroyed as soon as they are found.

  874. @A123
    @LatW


    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used.
     
    Accepted.

    Russia is in an existential fight for survival. Using 20+ high yield, strategic nukes is better than losing.

    Breaking the ability of the Europe Empire to supply Ukie aggression requires burning the rail system and eradicating Black Sea ports including Odessa. Just to make the point clear, pummeling Kiev and/or Lviv is also on the table.


    how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained?
     
    The land and water are ruined. Why enter it at all? Declare it unsalvageable and move on. That is incredibly easy as a strategic choice.

    Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there
     
    How will the Ukie Maximalists cross the Dnieper?

    Russia has massive amounts of gear to create pontoon bridges and similar structures. They grasped that supporting their existing beach head on the west bank was so hard, it would not hold.

    The idea of Ukie forces using temporary structures to support an Azov offensive defies the concept of military logistics. The flat, open terrain in the south is where Russia forces have maximum advantage.


    (Crimea is a pocket by definition).
     
    How is Crimea a military pocket?

    Russia can resupply from the north by land, across the Kerch bridge which includes rail (though this is a fixed target), and by water across either Azov Sea or Black Sea.


    Ukraine is not “winning comfortably” but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of “extreme instability and danger” Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.
     
    What Kiev regime goals? What Zelensky strategy?

    Again -- Putin sincerely believes that Russia is an existential fight for survival as a people.

    Whether you, I, or anyone else agrees with that assessment is irrelevant. Putin and his inner circle believe it. Therefore, Putin is predictable. He cannot accept anything that will not score as a "win" in term of the Russian psyche.

    How can I make this clear in a 100% unambiguous manner? If Putin, or his successor if he goes weak, has two choices:

    -1- Destroy all human life on the planet expending 5,000+ nuclear weapons. Plus, thousands of more U.S. nukes in the inevitable counter strike.

    -2- Losing in Ukraine.

    Ending humanity #1 is the "less bad" option as perceived by the team that can end humanity. If you believe otherwise, you are sadly kidding yourself. The terrifying problem is that Macron and other EU leaders seem to be similarly deluded.
    ___

    I know that speaking for God is problematic. However -- If the human race ends itself because Zelensky and Macron are clueless. -- Expect Old Testament style wrath.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    I don’t think “PEACE” is the correct sign off for this comment!

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    I don’t think “PEACE” is the correct sign off for this comment!
     
    If George IslamoSoros instructs Zelensky and Macron to make war... What am I supposed to do? I advocate for peace. However, SJW Islam is inherently violent.

    Old sayings must be recrafted -- It takes at least two to tango. And, in today's multi-polar world, probably many more.

    PEACE 😇
  875. • LOL: Gerard1234
    • Replies: @A123
    @Mikhail


    World leaders and their #pets
     
    Zelensky does not have exclusive rights to the semi-sentient critter Not-The-President Biden as his pet. It is more of a "pet sharing", cash for rental service.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://iranpoliticsclub.net/politics/iran-axis/images/biden-dog-on-leash-by-iran-china-deep-state-branco-cartoon.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  876. @AnonfromTN
    Current Kiev regime counts Bandera as its hero for a good reason. Just like Banderites proudly documented heinous crimes they committed in Volhynia more than 80 years ago, today’s Bandera followers not only commit crimes, but proudly record them and post the records on the web. Recently they posted another proof of their criminality: a video showing them murdering Russian POWs. Even the UN acknowledged that the video is genuine. Western MSM reacted predictably: with deafening silence.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Gerard1234

    The satanic attack on the bridge is even worse from the point of Western informational space complicity.

    1 Exploitation of the grain deal, allowing the Nazis to send the package across the Black Sea, and travel through 3rd-party countries.

    2. Hire a completely unknowing, innocent driver deliver the explosive material, and detonate it on the Kerch Strait bridge….. Murdering 6 innocent civilians including himself

    3. Detonate it just at the start of the elevated approach to the central arch span. I. E still a very long distance from the central span – making it a completely pointless attack because only one short span at low height collapsed- easily replaceable as a temporary replacement span to restore traffic quickly and as a permanent structure in the short term.

    4. causing totally pointless damage because only the rail bridge is a “legitimate” target (transporting military supplies and equipment in bulk only makes advantageous sense if done via rail, with road bridge not particularly more beneficial then crossing in a ship transporting larger volumes anyway) and it suffered only minor damage from second-order effects.

    Have vermin Ukronazi bydlo “celebrate” the attack under the brainwashing aesthetic that it was the arch destroyed LOL ( stopping shipping by destroying the highest, longest and most expensive part of the 2 bridges and killing the bridge for a long time would have been a big thing, instead of this pitiful act of pointless terrorism)- when it’s completely what didn’t happen. A fake country celebrating a fake event with some sadism thrown in is not surprising.

    6. Having this sickening act of terrorism by these freaks “militarily justified” to kill 5 people – their innocent lives decided by the fact…… it was Putin’s birthday! a new chapter on the rules of war. As is using an unknowing civilian
    to d

  877. @LatW
    @Sean


    One must remember that Russian generals regard themselves as people of special consequence in one of the world’s most important states
     
    Right, this is probably true. But I've also heard that the Russian officers have a code of honor, based on which they will not use a nuke. But I may be wrong, and not all of them may follow it, obviously.

    From the military point of view, the use of nukes would not achieve any military goals unless something like over 20 nukes were to be used. Russia doesn't have the means, the economy nor the necessary troops / equipment to fight a nuclear war (as I already mentioned to you, how are they going to enter the nuclear zone and secure the land gained? You responded by saying it would be some "hybrid gesture", just a blast, which I do understand, but you're saying this as if raising the stakes so high would not affect Russia herself at all).


    If, and I did say if, Ukraine mounts a successful conventional offensive, and drives Russia back (a collapse in Russian army morale in the face of Western weapons)
     
    There is a possibility that Russia will fight fiercely now and February will be very tough for both sides, but they will wear themselves out by April, May. At that point, Ukraine will have received the bulk of the weapons. Their offensive will be in the direction of the Azov coast. If they have long range missiles (150kms), they will be able to strike targets within Crimea and create major logistical problems there (Crimea is a pocket by definition).

    (Please, do not hit the Lastochkino Gnezdo!!) 😢


    Why? Because meekly accepting the defeat t would (1) entail RusFed being relegated from the ranks of great powers and (2)likely lead to RusFed breaking up
     
    These are the kinds of consequences that one should consider BEFORE one issues an ultimatum to the whole West (and then starts doing things that haven't been done since 1945).

    from the Russian Deep State (not jut Putin’s) standpoint a theatre thermonuclear weapon would be the least bad option
     
    It will depend on how the Russian Deep state feels. If Putin ends up being the only problem, who goes against their interests, they will remove him. I know you're arguing that the Deep State is patriotic, yes, but they also care about their wellbeing. Maybe they don't want to go down in flames.

    Btw, it seems there is some spat going on between Putin and Patrushev (it appears to be over Patrushev's son, but maybe something more). If Patrushev is thinking about the future career of his son, then surely he may be against a nuclear war, even a limited one.


    What would theUS dare do to a country that had already crossed the Rubicon?
     
    At that point, when the stakes are raised that high, it won't be just about the US. Both China and India have explicitly said "No nukes". China is even against any talk about using nukes. Russia is now dependent economically on those countries so Russia should care about how this could be perceived by those countries.

    In my opinion the greatest strength of Russia in deterring the West is the paradoxical one of Russia’s very fragility.
     
    This is an interesting aspect, but remember that Russia's fragility is a huge risk to Russia herself (and the Russian population).

    Although we hear a lot about Ukraine currently winning comfortably, no one spells out how taking that process to completion would actually be feasible without a period of extreme instability and danger.
     
    Ukraine is not "winning comfortably" but through a titanic effort of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the volunteers who support them. During a period of "extreme instability and danger" Ukraine could act quickly and take advantage of the situation to achieve their goals.

    Btw, you are using this "nuclear scenario" so much that it's starting to look like some intellectual nuclear fetishism. No offense.

    Replies: @A123, @Sean

    Both China and India have explicitly said “No nukes”.

    Very few bald statements are as unqualified as they sound. The Kremlin’s own spokesman has said no nuke use will be contemplated in Ukraine. But like JFK saying he wanted to withdraw from Vietnam, the unspoken corollary is victory. Kennedy never said he would withdraw without victory. So I think the use of nuclear weapons by Russia would not be so necessarily counter productive for the current occupants of the Kremlin and their undercover allies as to be impermissible in all circumstances, and judging by the way the US has been denying Ukraine many of the most effective arms, Washington is in no hurry to find out. Or even discuss what the endgame will look like. Nevertheless, Ukraine is going to have to be supplied F16, Abrams ECT eventually because of the rate they are burning though their old Soviet era weapons, and so the denouement cannot be put off forever.

  878. @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    I think Russia (and Putin) needs near total capitulation simply so this doesn't flare up again in 5 years. The public version of the post-SMO situation may seem more balanced than it really is as a concession to Ukraine's supporters.

    I hope they help Ukraine rebuild organically and not allow the country to be preyed upon by "carpet baggers" from all over. Time will tell.

    What is the main similarity in your view between the Iran-Iraq war and the SMO? I don't know much about it, though it doesn't seem fundamentally similar to the SMO. Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?

    At this stage of the war, I see Iraq as a parallel for Ukraine although in the initial part of the war Iraq was more like Russia.

    Iraq invaded Iran in an operation that was supposed to be a walkover. The Iranian regime was seen as an existential threat to Iraq but at the same time Iran was thought to be militarily extremely weak.

    Iraq had some initial success but then completely fell apart due to a mixture of Iranian heroism and Iraqi incompetence. Then Iran counterattacked, pushing Iraq out of Iranian territory and capturing territory in southern Iraq. At this stage Saddam sued for peace based on the status quo ante but Khomeni’s regime was in the grips of religious and nationalistic fervor and turned down all peace offerings, demanding nothing less than the end of Saddam’s regime.

    For the next 6 years the Iranians would use costly frontal assaults against Iraqs dug in forces, inflicting almost as many casualties as they suffered. These attacks on numerous occasions had initial success but they were never able to achieve operational breakthrough.

    To end the war, Saddam launched missiles at Iranian cities and attacked Iranian tankers in the Persian Gulf. But it wasn’t enough. It wasn’t even close to enough. Even with anti draft protests breaking out all over Iran, Khomeini was determined to continue the war until the bitter end.

    At this point, it was gently made clear to Saddam by his henchmen that there would be a coup if he did not allow his generals to fight the war properly (Saddam had forbidden different units of the army to have any communication with each other and he required that all orders needed to be routed through Baghdad, this made the type of coordination necessary to succeed in modern war completely impossible; he had actually forbidden to bulk of his army to even engage in training exercises). Saddam, fearing that Iran now poised a greater danger to his rule than his own army (the army of Saddam’s Iraq was designed to be coup proof before anything else), relented and took the handcuffs off his general. This was in 1988.

    Overnight things changed. Iraq’s massive technological and material superiority, which had done Iraq no good in the first 8 years of the conflict, was finally effectively utilized on the battlefield. The Iraqi army scored a series of lightning victories and drove the Iranian troops out of tracts of Iraqi territory that Iran had successfully held for years. Iraq then conquered a small piece of Iran at which point Saddam again offered Iran based on the status quo ante provided that Iran evacuated the piece of southern Iraq that it still held. Saddam threatened that if Iran did not agree, that Iraq would conquer more Iranian territory.

    Khomeini saw the war as an apocalyptic struggle. He had sent hundreds of thousands of young men to their deaths because this was a cause he believed in to the depths of his soul. But it no longer mattered: now even his most loyal supporters in the regime knew that there was no possibility of victory and that they needed to accept peace. Khomeini was made to realize it was either take the deal or step down (at best) and he (very) reluctantly gave in. Khomeini was actually so devastated that he had to accept the ceasefire that, in his speech announcing it, he basically said that he wished that he himself had been martyred in the war so he could have been spared the pain of having to come to terms with Saddam’s Iraq.

    Anyway, obviously far from a 1 to 1 parallel with Ukraine/Russia, but there are similarities. I think what will happen, eventually, is that Ukraine will eventually break through the fortified Russian lines and cut off the landbridge to Crimea. At this point, the US will tell Russia, “accept peace based on the status quo ante or we will allow the Ukrainians to reconquer Crimea”. Putin will agree because his own cronies will give him no other choice.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea. Russia has put down so many absurd red lines that this red line has been rendered meaningless. Even China doesn't recognise Russian sovereignty over Ukraine, so nuclear threats would be unwelcome anyway. Anyone who doesn't realise that China, India, Brazil etc would cut Russia off,
    even from the neutrality they show it currently, and leave it entirely isolated if Russia threatened global nuclear destruction, is quite stupid. Receiving oil subsidised at great expense by the Russian people is great, but it isn't "accepting destroying the entire human future because it can't handle the embarrassment of losing a war of choice" great.

    I would therefore strongly advise Putin to offer to standown at the next election, return his troops to the status quo ante, pay substantial compensation and drop all opposition to Ukraine entering the EU, in return for immediate peace and the dropping of sanctions, all as soon as possible. There is no better outcome that Russia can achieve and it is only downhill from here.

    It might be hard to accept that this deal would be worse than one it could have gotten yesterday, but it is better than one it could get tomorrow. The trajectory should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of courage.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  879. @Mikhail
    https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/status/1623562329655844865

    Replies: @A123

    World leaders and their #pets

    Zelensky does not have exclusive rights to the semi-sentient critter Not-The-President Biden as his pet. It is more of a “pet sharing”, cash for rental service.

    PEACE 😇

     

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @A123

    Hey, using political cartoons to help make a point was supposed to be my schtick! It's okay though, this shows that you're capable of learning...

  880. @QCIC
    @A123

    I don't think "PEACE" is the correct sign off for this comment!

    Replies: @A123

    I don’t think “PEACE” is the correct sign off for this comment!

    If George IslamoSoros instructs Zelensky and Macron to make war… What am I supposed to do? I advocate for peace. However, SJW Islam is inherently violent.

    Old sayings must be recrafted — It takes at least two to tango. And, in today’s multi-polar world, probably many more.

    PEACE 😇

  881. from r/mapporn so if it’s controversial everybody can find their favorite partisan bunking there.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Some analysis of India is tough. However, in this case only two easy questions are required to grasp the situation for what it is:

    • What are the most Muslim parts of India?
    • What parts of India have the most inter breeding?

    One does not need to be a statistician to see the obvious, direct relationship between Islam and sexual deviancy.

    Is anyone surprised? I thought not.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  882. @Emil Nikola Richard
    https://i.redd.it/fef3k4rzlnha1.png

    from r/mapporn so if it's controversial everybody can find their favorite partisan bunking there.

    Replies: @A123

    Some analysis of India is tough. However, in this case only two easy questions are required to grasp the situation for what it is:

    • What are the most Muslim parts of India?
    • What parts of India have the most inter breeding?

    One does not need to be a statistician to see the obvious, direct relationship between Islam and sexual deviancy.

    Is anyone surprised? I thought not.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme "guarding" of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /"brood of vipers" in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous "hypocrites" of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some "dragons/angels" as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

  883. @216
    @Mr. Hack

    And here you admit why Ukraine is unworthy of support. Nationalists are marginal, and a population basing its identity on Euroliberalism, aka globohomo; is not what conservatives want. Its no different than Catalonia or Scotland, which are not real separatist movements.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    too true.

  884. @sudden death
    @Leaves No Shadow


    zek oligarch
     
    Is it just my vivid imagination or in terms of color and facial profile he has the overall looks bit similar to michaeljacksoned older version of original Predator spec-op team member?;)

    https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/predator1-promo-013.jpg


    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i9Odz31BZzZk/v1/1200x-1.jpg

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    Did you hear the latest gem from this “vivid” character?

    Scroll down to hear the video:

    https://www.unian.net/russianworld/prigozhin-zayavil-chto-rf-chestno-otdast-ukraincam-franciyu-italiyu-i-bolgariyu-video-12140697.html

    Офигеть.

    I don’t know… is this some kind of grotesque theater? If so, can we please remove Ukrainians from it?

    “Никакого расслабона”… “нормальные рабочие костюмы…”

    “А где наш Ла-Манш?” LOL

    Мать твою… this is the craziest sh*t I’ve heard in a long time.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW

    Translation from Russian:

    Prigozhin was basically saying that the Russians must truly brace themselves and do what they did from 1941-45. The country must be locked down. Nobody should be allowed to take vacations in Turkey or France. Then after some work is done, they could ask themselves: "Where is our La Manche?" (e.g., English Channel, edge of Europe that they are planning to reach). And he believes that nobody would object if France, Italy and Bulgaria would be given to Ukraine (that is, they would split the war booty with Ukraine). He believes after all this madness Russians should share equally with Ukrainians because they will both still suffer greatly.

    This is the kind of misanthropic nonsense that the Russian population is being fed with. One could laugh if men weren't dying. I mean, Prigozhin can always fantasize about La Manche and then run back to Africa, but what of the dead sons and husbands...?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @sudden death

  885. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I don't really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what "patriotic pensioners" write on some Russian Telegram channels. Same accusations of "betrayal" and "inhumanity" leveled against the whole Ukrainian population. Same ardor in supporting "our people", same "spiritual" grandstanding. When I comment about this war being disgusting and lacking anything noble about it, the "patriotic babushkas and dedushkas" express the same "moral outrage". Entirely predictable from people who like categorizing and eschew intuitive perception and complex and granular thinking.

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : "You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?". He answered: "Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn't kill anyone." Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.

    I was young back then and I had a hard time understanding how someone could not feel hatred towards those who invaded one's country and killed one's people in the millions. I understand better now.

    About the book, I haven't read any by Zil'bertrud (Bykov). I find the personage antipathic despite him being a supposedly talented writer.

    Replies: @AP

    I don’t really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what “patriotic pensioners” write on some Russian Telegram channels.

    Well, the Russian patriotic pensioners are supporting an invader, Ukrainians support the one being invaded.

    You don’t think that this fundamentally changes the meaning of what is said?

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : “You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?”. He answered: “Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn’t kill anyone.” Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.

    The troubling thing is that not killing any of the invaders meant that more of his own people would be killed, by those invaders not killed. Only if one considers the Nazi invaders and the Soviet defenders to be equal in their purposes (or if one prefers the Nazi invaders) does this desire to avoid harming them in the context of the war when they are killing Soviets seem correct.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    This war started quite earlier than last February. For "patriotic pensioners" this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus lands. For many of them it is a struggle they would want to see taken to its final conclusion - the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed. This too is predictable, these people in their inflamed patriotism are compensating for their generation's lackluster performance in the defense of their Soviet homeland, and for many of them, their cheering of its demise 30 years ago.



    In the case of my grandfather, he didn't need to compensate, he fought in a very dangerous situation during the siege and the blockade of Leningrad, was wounded three times and decorated for bravery. He proved that he was up to the task. He did not have the need to feel morally superior to his former enemies.

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    This is something Russian people are usually good at: they are usually not vindictive. Being vindictive is petty minded, something that most Russians I know are not. That is why all these "patriotic pensioners" often strike me as not really Russian in their attitudes of pretending to want to destroy the whole world for their perceived infringement of historical rights.

    Growing old my grandfather recognized the humanity of those he had to fight against in his youth. For most of his life he was a fierce man, growing old he let go of this . He died peacefully at close to 79 years old. In the last couple of years, he was very sick and became feeble. My mother took care of him and I helped when I was around. Little time after his death, we emigrated. My grandmother died a dozen years earlier. Today they are both buried together close to Peterhof, not far from the place where my grandfather battery stood for a prolonged time during the war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

  886. @216
    @AP

    You underestimate how much people love winners and hate losers. Aerial bombing also results in a different reaction than occupying ground troops. Should the judgement of the battlefield end in Russia's favor, legion of Ukrainians will suddenly become Russophile all over again. These are flatlanders, not mountain people.

    The post-2014 regime has made it abundantly clear that their end goal is the installation of a liberal regime in Moscow, and possibly even the partition of the RF to fulfill Promethean fantasies.

    Replies: @AP

    You underestimate how much people love winners and hate losers. Aerial bombing also results in a different reaction than occupying ground troops. Should the judgement of the battlefield end in Russia’s favor, legion of Ukrainians will suddenly become Russophile all over again.

    Now that Russians have invaded and killed a lot of Ukrainians, they will not be liked even if they win on the battlefield. Germans came to like the Americans, but this is because they recognized that they were the aggressors and felt guilty. Invaded people don’t do that. Ukrainians would be like Poles and Balts, who never liked Russians.

    The post-2014 regime has made it abundantly clear that their end goal is the installation of a liberal regime in Moscow

    The end goal is to keep Ukraine securely with its western brethren in the EU and out of Russia’s clutches. Hopes about Russia breaking up are for the purpose of preventing Russia from stopping that. It’s ancillary to that main goal, not the end goal itself.

  887. @LatW
    @sudden death

    Did you hear the latest gem from this "vivid" character?

    Scroll down to hear the video:

    https://www.unian.net/russianworld/prigozhin-zayavil-chto-rf-chestno-otdast-ukraincam-franciyu-italiyu-i-bolgariyu-video-12140697.html

    Офигеть.

    I don't know... is this some kind of grotesque theater? If so, can we please remove Ukrainians from it?

    "Никакого расслабона"... "нормальные рабочие костюмы..."

    "А где наш Ла-Манш?" LOL

    Мать твою... this is the craziest sh*t I've heard in a long time.

    Replies: @LatW

    Translation from Russian:

    Prigozhin was basically saying that the Russians must truly brace themselves and do what they did from 1941-45. The country must be locked down. Nobody should be allowed to take vacations in Turkey or France. Then after some work is done, they could ask themselves: “Where is our La Manche?” (e.g., English Channel, edge of Europe that they are planning to reach). And he believes that nobody would object if France, Italy and Bulgaria would be given to Ukraine (that is, they would split the war booty with Ukraine). He believes after all this madness Russians should share equally with Ukrainians because they will both still suffer greatly.

    This is the kind of misanthropic nonsense that the Russian population is being fed with. One could laugh if men weren’t dying. I mean, Prigozhin can always fantasize about La Manche and then run back to Africa, but what of the dead sons and husbands…?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    You dummies are clearly positioning the Zhid to be the warlord of Ukraine and Russia.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @sudden death
    @LatW

    imho, he has a definite function in the system to fill - Zhirinovsky, another "Russian" ultra-nationalist hawk with Jewish father, is no more alive and the place is empty. Medvedev has too intelligent and meek looks, no matter how hard he tries to compensate it with his rants on the net.

    Also just several months ago this wannabe La Manche destroyer was actively praising giving up of Kherson, so he is fully controlled at the critically defining moments, if he had a shred of real own sovereignity, would have been silent instead.

    Also Wagner group military action is not sovereign at all in principle, strategic plans, directions, commands and criticall supplies like ammo are still being given by Army, just like Waffen-SS was not truly sovereign from Wehrmacht in practice despite maybe harbouring wider deep ambitions.

  888. @LatW
    @LatW

    Translation from Russian:

    Prigozhin was basically saying that the Russians must truly brace themselves and do what they did from 1941-45. The country must be locked down. Nobody should be allowed to take vacations in Turkey or France. Then after some work is done, they could ask themselves: "Where is our La Manche?" (e.g., English Channel, edge of Europe that they are planning to reach). And he believes that nobody would object if France, Italy and Bulgaria would be given to Ukraine (that is, they would split the war booty with Ukraine). He believes after all this madness Russians should share equally with Ukrainians because they will both still suffer greatly.

    This is the kind of misanthropic nonsense that the Russian population is being fed with. One could laugh if men weren't dying. I mean, Prigozhin can always fantasize about La Manche and then run back to Africa, but what of the dead sons and husbands...?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @sudden death

    You dummies are clearly positioning the Zhid to be the warlord of Ukraine and Russia.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Wokechoke

    He should've been removed a long time ago. Obviously he was needed in Russia.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  889. @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    You dummies are clearly positioning the Zhid to be the warlord of Ukraine and Russia.

    Replies: @LatW

    He should’ve been removed a long time ago. Obviously he was needed in Russia.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    Give this guy attention and he’ll be the boss in Moscow soon enough.

    Replies: @LatW

  890. @LatW
    @Wokechoke

    He should've been removed a long time ago. Obviously he was needed in Russia.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Give this guy attention and he’ll be the boss in Moscow soon enough.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Wokechoke

    He'll be taken out most likely by the Kremlin or will have to go back to Africa. His troops have almost bled out in Ukraine.

    Either way, he shouldn't have been allowed in Ukraine.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  891. @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    Give this guy attention and he’ll be the boss in Moscow soon enough.

    Replies: @LatW

    He’ll be taken out most likely by the Kremlin or will have to go back to Africa. His troops have almost bled out in Ukraine.

    Either way, he shouldn’t have been allowed in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy. Both the right wing and the left wing leaders of the pro-Russian uprising. They blamed it on the Ukrainians, but most nationalists did not buy that. Afterwards, Wagner had contracted hundreds (possibly thousands) of pro-Russian fighters to go and fight in Syria and Africa where many of them got killed. Wagner is a very interesting organization. If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the "crazy Furher" when the right time comes. He has the needed genetics and the pathological inclinations, he has the moneys. All he needs is some "metaphysical help" quite possibly he has already secured this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @Leaves No Shadow

  892. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    I don’t really see that much difference between what you wrote, and what “patriotic pensioners” write on some Russian Telegram channels.
     
    Well, the Russian patriotic pensioners are supporting an invader, Ukrainians support the one being invaded.

    You don't think that this fundamentally changes the meaning of what is said?

    About overcoming hatred, I have a story to tell. My grandfather, born between Yenakievo and Debaltsevo in 1916, when these territories were still Russian gubernyas, fought on the Leningrad front and the Karelian Isthmus from 1941 to 1944. He was then wounded for the third time and finished the war in a hospital. He was one of those who defended the Oranienbaum Bridgehead where the level of attrition was very high, reaching up to over 60% the first winter. His younger brother who volunteered to the front age 17, was killed in Eastern Prussia in 1945. Once I asked him : “You were in the artillery, in charge of a battery. How many Germans and Finns do you think you have killed during the war ?”. He answered: “Usually we fired from afar, using the coordinates provided by the reconnaissance units so we rarely witnessed live the results of our shelling. Therefore I saw none of them die and quite frankly I hope we didn’t kill anyone.” Given that he was a highly decorated, high-ranking career officer who was teaching in one of Soviet military institutes, his answer really troubled me.
     
    The troubling thing is that not killing any of the invaders meant that more of his own people would be killed, by those invaders not killed. Only if one considers the Nazi invaders and the Soviet defenders to be equal in their purposes (or if one prefers the Nazi invaders) does this desire to avoid harming them in the context of the war when they are killing Soviets seem correct.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    This war started quite earlier than last February. For “patriotic pensioners” this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus lands. For many of them it is a struggle they would want to see taken to its final conclusion – the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed. This too is predictable, these people in their inflamed patriotism are compensating for their generation’s lackluster performance in the defense of their Soviet homeland, and for many of them, their cheering of its demise 30 years ago.

    [MORE]

    In the case of my grandfather, he didn’t need to compensate, he fought in a very dangerous situation during the siege and the blockade of Leningrad, was wounded three times and decorated for bravery. He proved that he was up to the task. He did not have the need to feel morally superior to his former enemies.

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    This is something Russian people are usually good at: they are usually not vindictive. Being vindictive is petty minded, something that most Russians I know are not. That is why all these “patriotic pensioners” often strike me as not really Russian in their attitudes of pretending to want to destroy the whole world for their perceived infringement of historical rights.

    Growing old my grandfather recognized the humanity of those he had to fight against in his youth. For most of his life he was a fierce man, growing old he let go of this . He died peacefully at close to 79 years old. In the last couple of years, he was very sick and became feeble. My mother took care of him and I helped when I was around. Little time after his death, we emigrated. My grandmother died a dozen years earlier. Today they are both buried together close to Peterhof, not far from the place where my grandfather battery stood for a prolonged time during the war.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Ivashka the fool


    ...war started earlier than last February...this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus
     
    That is too generic...each war is a separate event. Some may read into it the long historical memories or grievances, but those are a lot less relevant.

    its final conclusion – the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed.
     
    Difficult dilemma: on both sides there is a fanatical core that prefers destroying the world to losing. The neo-cons and their acolytes in Kiev-Warsaw think: "Russia must be destroyed, once and for all!" In Russia a many in the elite probably prefer nukes to more retreats. The neo-cons are closer to power than their Russian counterparts. For now.

    There is a non-zero chance that the war will escalate to some use of the nukes, maybe small ones on military installations at first. Most likely targets would be the Russian or Nato bases (in Poland). It is serious. What would each side do if the following happens:
    - Russian military in Donbas collapses and Ukies (w allies) cross to the Rostov region or to Crimea
    - Ukies collapse in Donbas or Zaporozhie and Russians (w Donbas+ allies) head towards Dnipro or Kiev...

    In the moment of truth a decision would be made: take a humiliating loss or go va banque...Biden would be told: 'you are an old man, just do it...' in Moscow feverish security types would be screaming '...it is nukes or we perish forever!!!'...those are the wages of escalating with an unstoppable force against an immovable object...

    On the plus side, if it goes off in a controlled way we could get rid of some strange fanatics who don't have the human instinct for living a life...kind of like a giant Chernobyl that could be frozen for the next 1,000 years...and sorry, most of Poland would probably be within that reservation, that's ok, the Poles never liked their eastern affiliation, the survivors can move to Greenland - a true North-West!

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Was this your Ukrainian grandfather, the one who had a copy of Shevchenko's Kobzar close bye and who enjoyed reading it? I get your family chronology mixed-up, as their seems to be a northern variant in the Peter area, the South Eastern variant (the original?) where I think that Gramps was from, and then there's of course yourself, right in the middle, a Muscovite....

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool


    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.
     
    I agree, but also they are fundamentally different. They are able to not know themselves. This means they have all sorts of illusory drives and motivations, born of the dark space between their limited lines of perception.

    But ultimately, were I know to be able to know only what they know, I would, yes, surely do the same as they are truly trying their best.

    Forgiveness and forgetting is therefore instant, if they can at least begin to see what they are doing, as surely they will therefore soon stop.

    And forgiveness by itself is constant, for the reasons detailed above.

    But sometimes this particular person's lifetime has run its course, they are currently all but incapable of growth, and just need to disposed of so they can come back afresh.
  893. @216
    @Beckow

    The NATO treaty prevents the addition of members in an active conflict, the only functional way for Kiev to join would be to retake all of the territory in the 1954 borders. I am unaware if the EU Constitution contains a similar requirement, but presuming as Cyprus was admitted, it probably doesn't. The non-NATO EU states are de-facto (freeloaders) members of NATO and Russia could not attack without a nuclear response.

    It would be far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO, which would ensure conservatives would control both institutions.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO

    Russia sought to join EU and Nato and was flatly rejected. Then Russia sought a stable ‘partnership’ with agreed on rules and mutual security and was told to take a hike – arms, bases and eventually missiles were going to Ukraine. By 2021 Russia two choices:
    – sit back and wait for the Nato process to complete on a long Ukie border close to central Russia and with pumped up Ukies threatening anything Russian (“kill Moskali”)
    – take a military action to prevent it.

    A war is never healthy and Russia could have waited. They chose not to. But the whole “Great Power” is a nonsensical distraction. Russia is a Power as is US, China, France, UK…those powers wouldn’t allow a danger of this magnitude on their borders and neither would Russia. The only ‘delusion’ is in your mind for not seeing them as equal. The war will determine if they are, that’s the way it has always been.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow

    It would be about time US lost its Great Power delusions. When a country has a hard time securing its south border against the myriad immigrants and feels the need to make a circus of shutting down a meteorological balloon, it's past time this country started some much needed self-reflection.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @216
    @Beckow

    France and the UK are not Great Powers, the EU collectively is a Great Power.

    Russia is the least of the Great Powers, and should it lose this war, their Great Power status will be permanently revoked.

    Great Powers also have "soft power" and Russia is by far the worst at it. It cannot convince otherwise social conservative East Europeans that it is anything but bloodthirsty. Their unofficial propaganda insists on screaming at how racist Westerners are, and its Latin American division is promoting troons.

  894. @LatW
    @Wokechoke

    He'll be taken out most likely by the Kremlin or will have to go back to Africa. His troops have almost bled out in Ukraine.

    Either way, he shouldn't have been allowed in Ukraine.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy. Both the right wing and the left wing leaders of the pro-Russian uprising. They blamed it on the Ukrainians, but most nationalists did not buy that. Afterwards, Wagner had contracted hundreds (possibly thousands) of pro-Russian fighters to go and fight in Syria and Africa where many of them got killed. Wagner is a very interesting organization. If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the “crazy Furher” when the right time comes. He has the needed genetics and the pathological inclinations, he has the moneys. All he needs is some “metaphysical help” quite possibly he has already secured this.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Ivashka the fool

    He’s clearly being promoted by the west as a successor. John Johnson is quite hamhanded about it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy.
     
    You know, recently another one of these types was taken out, the one Mangushev. From Russia, but operating in Ukraine since 2014. He was shot from close range, and they said that Wagner was in the area at the time. So there is some kind of a sonderkommando style group operating there, and it could be Wagner. Apparently, this Mangushev guy was also talking too openly and critically about how the "Special operation" is going.

    If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the “crazy Furher” when the right time comes
     
    He could play a role definitely, but not sure how he could operate without Putin...

    But there are others now as well. There are apparently several military companies now in Russia. There is Rosgvardia. By the way, Gazprom has recently created some kind of a militarized group for guarding their properties. And Prigozhin's money is partly coming from the state, not just those resources in Africa. Wagner apparently still has thousands of men in Africa.

    All he needs is some “metaphysical help” quite possibly he has already secured this.

     

    It seems so indeed.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Prigozhin is going nowhere. He has no power whatsoever except through Putin, which is why Putin keeps him around. He is entirely dependent. Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.

    I also note that Prigozhin, while undoubtedly cynical, is not a raving lunatic. He'll switch colours in line with power probably before almost anyone else even realises that the layout of power has changed. Will it save him when the men of the institutions assert their power and clean out the old regime? Maybe, or maybe he'll flee to one of those African countries that used his services and might have him? Or Iran. Or to Cuba? Or maybe Syria? I don't know which I'd pick for my retirement were I him, as it is betting a lot on them not selling him out, and they are not exactly run by the world's most trustworthy people.

    As for metaphysical help, I hope he gets some. It might appear demonic, but beauty, while not actually in the eye of the beholder, can often work out that way in practice. And there's really nothing to be afraid of.

    Replies: @LatW

  895. @Beckow
    @216


    ...far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO
     
    Russia sought to join EU and Nato and was flatly rejected. Then Russia sought a stable 'partnership' with agreed on rules and mutual security and was told to take a hike - arms, bases and eventually missiles were going to Ukraine. By 2021 Russia two choices:
    - sit back and wait for the Nato process to complete on a long Ukie border close to central Russia and with pumped up Ukies threatening anything Russian ("kill Moskali")
    - take a military action to prevent it.

    A war is never healthy and Russia could have waited. They chose not to. But the whole "Great Power" is a nonsensical distraction. Russia is a Power as is US, China, France, UK...those powers wouldn't allow a danger of this magnitude on their borders and neither would Russia. The only 'delusion' is in your mind for not seeing them as equal. The war will determine if they are, that's the way it has always been.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @216

    It would be about time US lost its Great Power delusions. When a country has a hard time securing its south border against the myriad immigrants and feels the need to make a circus of shutting down a meteorological balloon, it’s past time this country started some much needed self-reflection.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Ivashka the fool

    US suffers from a serious case of hubris...People in later stages of hubris become very selective in a narcissistic way: they think that only what they want matters. Other things are omitted or forbidden to discuss - the southern border, or the endless bombing adventures that killed millions and were all lost wars. Then one day it will dawn on them, they will realize the consequences, and suddenly they will become very contrite...

    Who I feel will sorry for - well, not really - are their devoted followers in Europe. They are not even in on the game, but they enthusiastically and voluntarily celebrate it, offer everything they have, worship it like some medieval beggar monks....an evolutionary failure. Maybe we will be better off without them.

  896. @LatW
    @Beckow


    There is also the work ethic issue.

     

    They work hard when they are motivated and properly managed. Plus they don't need to be like Germans or Asians that way, and still have a decent living standard.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …still have a decent living standard

    Pretty much everyone has a “decent” living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now. The swarthy thieving Romanians also have an ok life. Decent is not much to aspire to…it is a given when there is peace and markets.

    I forgot to mention corruption, Kiev is in a category of its own – there is really no comparison w Germany or Korea. I think we would all agree with that.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Beckow


    Pretty much everyone has a “decent” living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now
     
    Of course. My point was that once you have that, everything is fine, a high living standard is good to have, but other things, such as a consolidated nation, are higher on the priority list.

    Replies: @Beckow

  897. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy. Both the right wing and the left wing leaders of the pro-Russian uprising. They blamed it on the Ukrainians, but most nationalists did not buy that. Afterwards, Wagner had contracted hundreds (possibly thousands) of pro-Russian fighters to go and fight in Syria and Africa where many of them got killed. Wagner is a very interesting organization. If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the "crazy Furher" when the right time comes. He has the needed genetics and the pathological inclinations, he has the moneys. All he needs is some "metaphysical help" quite possibly he has already secured this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @Leaves No Shadow

    He’s clearly being promoted by the west as a successor. John Johnson is quite hamhanded about it.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke

    Well, the Globalist are adept at playing long-term dialectics. They are also good at distraction and deception. And they are excellent at knocking several birds with one stone. I could elaborate further, but as LatW writes, some things are not for open discussions. Speaking of which, I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that "needed" Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not "allowed" him in Ukraine. Who is it that decides this kind of things? 😉

    Replies: @LatW

  898. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy. Both the right wing and the left wing leaders of the pro-Russian uprising. They blamed it on the Ukrainians, but most nationalists did not buy that. Afterwards, Wagner had contracted hundreds (possibly thousands) of pro-Russian fighters to go and fight in Syria and Africa where many of them got killed. Wagner is a very interesting organization. If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the "crazy Furher" when the right time comes. He has the needed genetics and the pathological inclinations, he has the moneys. All he needs is some "metaphysical help" quite possibly he has already secured this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @Leaves No Shadow

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy.

    You know, recently another one of these types was taken out, the one Mangushev. From Russia, but operating in Ukraine since 2014. He was shot from close range, and they said that Wagner was in the area at the time. So there is some kind of a sonderkommando style group operating there, and it could be Wagner. Apparently, this Mangushev guy was also talking too openly and critically about how the “Special operation” is going.

    If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the “crazy Furher” when the right time comes

    He could play a role definitely, but not sure how he could operate without Putin…

    But there are others now as well. There are apparently several military companies now in Russia. There is Rosgvardia. By the way, Gazprom has recently created some kind of a militarized group for guarding their properties. And Prigozhin’s money is partly coming from the state, not just those resources in Africa. Wagner apparently still has thousands of men in Africa.

    All he needs is some “metaphysical help” quite possibly he has already secured this.

    It seems so indeed.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    He could play a role definitely, but not sure how he could operate
     
    Using a sledgehammer.

    without Putin
     
    Which one of them ?

    https://i.stopcor.org/gallery/2022/8/2/screenshot27.jpg
  899. @AP
    @Beckow


    "This means elimination of all pro-Western parties"

    No it doesn’t
     
    Yes it does - the Kremlin regards them as Nazi parties. Even Zelensky is regarded as a Nazi.

    This means that the only parties to be allowed will be a resurrected Party of Regions, Communists, and any Russian nationalist parties (including fascist ones, of course).

    You think any other kind of party is allowed in Crimea, Donbas or occupied Zaporizhia?

    "80%-90% of the population flee and the lands become mostly empty as after the Mongol invasion."

    No they wouldn’t – about 20% would leave permanently.

     

    Only about one half to one third of people remained in Kherson, Melitopol, etc. under Russian occupation. But these people did not have much time to pack and flee before the Russians came in. And these regions are less nationalistic than others.

    If Russia grabs more territory, the percentage of people willing to live under Russian rule decrease. Between the combination of mass casualties/mass resistance, and escape, the Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine will have 10% to 20% of its original inhabitants. Many of those will move to free Ukraine, Poland, Western Europe, America, Canada. Ukrainians hate Russia and Russian rule. They won't choose to live in a bombed out wasteland with Russian and Chechen overlords, rather than staying getting asylum and living in the West or living in the free Ukraine which is on its way to the EU.

    W Germany and S Korea were very heavily subsidized by US…that will not happen w Ukraine
     
    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany's population and will be largely reconstructed using money taken from frozen Russian assets. Ukraine within current line of control has perhaps around half of South Korea's population.

    There is also the work ethic issue.
     
    Ukrainians work harder than most western Europeans, probably harder than Germans.

    "odds of formal NATO membership for Ukraine have improved from 5% to 25% as a result of this war."

    You are way off: in 2021 the odds were 90%
     
    I remember how after 2014 and prior to 2021 Russians and their lackeys were bragging that Ukraine would never get into NATO because NATO doesn't accept countries with territorial disputes, and Ukraine claimed Donbas and Crimea. Too dangerous. It was part of the brilliance of seizing those territories. But now you pretend that didn't matter.

    with the war they dropped to under 20%
     
    With the war, grew to 25% but 20% is also possible, why not.

    Without the war, Ukraine would be in Nato – that is the reason for the war.
     
    There has been no real war for 7 years after Maidan and no NATO membership. Nor would there have been for another 7 years. In 20 years, 50 years - who knows?

    Thanks to the war Ukrainians have proven that they can fight well, that they can use NATO equipment well, and their military is now NATO ready and compatible. Close training and camaraderie between NATO and Ukrainian troops have also made a difference. Before the war, Ukraine was neither de facto nor de jure a NATO country, now it is very close to being a de facto one. So the odds have increased, though they are still well below 50%.

    Total Russian defeat (unlikely) would increase the odds to 80% though.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Let just agree to disagree. You simply spout Ukie feel-good slogans, some of them outright lies, some just meaningless flights of fancy. Not a serious stuff.

    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato, that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training, joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov) – all of it was being put in place. Like an idiot you choose to ignore it – or worse, like a desperate propagandist caught lying.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato – if you pretend that is not the case you are like an ostrich. It is impossible to have a rational discussion w someone who consistently denies the obvious. Try a bit of critical thinking, it may enlighten you.

    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population

    What? How small exactly are you planning for this “free Ukieland” to be? I am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people? Or less? I don’t think you realize that you are de facto dreaming of destruction of Ukraine as a viable, large nation – in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people. And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much…pathetic.

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe – a destruction of a nation. These quasi-Nazi dreams you have are sick. It goes well with you mono-lingual ethnic-cleansing idiocy. Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or “transition”).

    • Replies: @216
    @Beckow


    Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or “transition”).
     
    US Whites, particularly Redstanis, outscore Russians on matters of TFR, divorce rates, church attendance, alcoholism. Russians outscore Redstanis on obesity, but that's because Russian agriculture is far less efficient than US Agriculture.

    Poles are also outscoring Russians on these social indicators, and Poland has a far more restrictive abortion law that Russia should copy.
    , @AP
    @Beckow


    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato
     
    And year after year Ukraine didn't get close to being in NATO, which means that if NATO says Ukraine will be in NATO, it is not going to happen. It's nice words for Ukraine, and an excuse that Russia uses so morons like you believe that invading Ukraine was necessary to keep it out of NATO.

    If it's a consolation, some Russian grandmothers probably agree with you.

    that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training
     
    Still in the constitution, and arms and cross-training have increased by an order of magnitude since the Russian invasion.

    joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov)
     
    Nice fantasy. You complain about the use of "if" but do the same when it suits you.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato
     
    Correction: the whole crisis exists because Russia does not want to lose Ukraine to the West. It does not want a Ukraine divided from it.

    "Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population"

    What? How small exactly are you planning for this “free Ukieland” to be?
     
    Ukraine in the current border probably has 25-30 million people, taking into account the millions who have fled. Add about 4-5 million if they 70% or so of the refugees come back after the war. This is the most likely scenario.

    A fraction of West Germany's 64 million people.

    And an even smaller fraction of the population of the 18 European countries that were subsidized by the USA's Marshall Plan after World War II.

    am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people?
     
    In the extremely unlikely event that Ukraine gets reduced to the parts that were non-Soviet in 1939 it would be 12-15 million people. Ironically, this much-smaller Ukraine would probably improve much more quickly, it is close to the West with infrastructure already there, easier to manage, etc.

    large nation – in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people.
     
    And if it included southern Russia it would have 80 million, but it would not be Ukraine any more.

    Losing the ethnic Russians of Crimea and Donetsk was a very good thing. It was their fault that Ukraine fell so far behind in the 1990s and 2000s, they were the anchor that kept Ukraine from following Poland and the Baltics westward. This was why Putin was trying until the last moment to keep Donbas in Ukraine under the condition of special autonomy and veto power over national policy.

    And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much
     
    You are just lying as usual.

    Would you like your Slovak language to be replaced by Hungarian? Or to have only half your population speak it? No? Does that mean you hate the Hungarian people and language?

    You who see hatred everywhere must be full of hatred yourself. Is it bitter for you, being an eternal lackey? Embarrassing to see your would-be master Putin stumble so much?

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe
     
    Loss of population is terrible but not as terrible as occupation and forced integration with Eurasia, and not as terrible as replacement as in Western Europe and in the Balkans.

    Replies: @Beckow

  900. @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...still have a decent living standard
     
    Pretty much everyone has a "decent" living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now. The swarthy thieving Romanians also have an ok life. Decent is not much to aspire to...it is a given when there is peace and markets.

    I forgot to mention corruption, Kiev is in a category of its own - there is really no comparison w Germany or Korea. I think we would all agree with that.

    Replies: @LatW

    Pretty much everyone has a “decent” living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now

    Of course. My point was that once you have that, everything is fine, a high living standard is good to have, but other things, such as a consolidated nation, are higher on the priority list.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @LatW


    ...consolidated nation, are higher on the priority list.
     
    Consolidating a nation by suppressing another one's language, culture, identity is not something you can get away with in 2023 - wrong century. Russia is still too powerful.

    So it is hopeless, bloody and tragic. It will end badly for the consolidators...they will look back and say 'we are sorry, we were manipulated and dreamt too much...'. Whatever, but by then it will be too late, too many dead in the search for ethnic purity, for revenge, for goodies from the winking sponsors in the West.

    But you won't learn, you will persist, escalate and look for a miracle. The escapees to places like Winnipeg will one day write sad songs and make aspirational movies. All for nothing, you are peeing into a hurricane, and the savvy Western sponsors cheer you on...where do you think the piss will end up?

  901. @Wokechoke
    @Ivashka the fool

    He’s clearly being promoted by the west as a successor. John Johnson is quite hamhanded about it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Well, the Globalist are adept at playing long-term dialectics. They are also good at distraction and deception. And they are excellent at knocking several birds with one stone. I could elaborate further, but as LatW writes, some things are not for open discussions. Speaking of which, I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that “needed” Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not “allowed” him in Ukraine. Who is it that decides this kind of things? 😉

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that “needed” Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not “allowed” him in Ukraine.
     
    Oh, I simply meant he should've been taken out by the Ukrainians (if it were possible).
    Его просто валить надо, все равно в Украине или в России.

    I mean, there must be someone out of a population of 140M people to lead Russia besides this guy...


    Using a sledgehammer.
     
    Of course, the mighty kuvalda, the fantastic tool that brings us back to the Stone Age in the 21st century. :) Return of primal masculinity. :)

    Well, who knows if he could have a way to put the whole system under him.


    Which one of them ?
     
    You believe there are doubles? Some say there are 2 or 3. Quite possible. Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn't him.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  902. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy.
     
    You know, recently another one of these types was taken out, the one Mangushev. From Russia, but operating in Ukraine since 2014. He was shot from close range, and they said that Wagner was in the area at the time. So there is some kind of a sonderkommando style group operating there, and it could be Wagner. Apparently, this Mangushev guy was also talking too openly and critically about how the "Special operation" is going.

    If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the “crazy Furher” when the right time comes
     
    He could play a role definitely, but not sure how he could operate without Putin...

    But there are others now as well. There are apparently several military companies now in Russia. There is Rosgvardia. By the way, Gazprom has recently created some kind of a militarized group for guarding their properties. And Prigozhin's money is partly coming from the state, not just those resources in Africa. Wagner apparently still has thousands of men in Africa.

    All he needs is some “metaphysical help” quite possibly he has already secured this.

     

    It seems so indeed.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    He could play a role definitely, but not sure how he could operate

    Using a sledgehammer.

    without Putin

    Which one of them ?

  903. @Ivashka the fool
    @Wokechoke

    Well, the Globalist are adept at playing long-term dialectics. They are also good at distraction and deception. And they are excellent at knocking several birds with one stone. I could elaborate further, but as LatW writes, some things are not for open discussions. Speaking of which, I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that "needed" Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not "allowed" him in Ukraine. Who is it that decides this kind of things? 😉

    Replies: @LatW

    I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that “needed” Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not “allowed” him in Ukraine.

    Oh, I simply meant he should’ve been taken out by the Ukrainians (if it were possible).
    Его просто валить надо, все равно в Украине или в России.

    I mean, there must be someone out of a population of 140M people to lead Russia besides this guy…

    Using a sledgehammer.

    Of course, the mighty kuvalda, the fantastic tool that brings us back to the Stone Age in the 21st century. 🙂 Return of primal masculinity. 🙂

    Well, who knows if he could have a way to put the whole system under him.

    Which one of them ?

    You believe there are doubles? Some say there are 2 or 3. Quite possible. Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn’t him.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @LatW


    Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn’t him.
     
    I saw the video from a handheld camera at 6 or 7 feet. If that was not Putin it was Stanley Kubrick quality production. If I'm betting it was him.

    Body doubles are not really for close up shot of facial expression.

    The hockey videos would be much easier. That is not an activity for people past their 30th birthday. Yikes.

    Replies: @LatW

  904. @LatW
    @Beckow


    Pretty much everyone has a “decent” living standard in that region, Russians do, Ukies definitely pre-2014 and even now
     
    Of course. My point was that once you have that, everything is fine, a high living standard is good to have, but other things, such as a consolidated nation, are higher on the priority list.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …consolidated nation, are higher on the priority list.

    Consolidating a nation by suppressing another one’s language, culture, identity is not something you can get away with in 2023 – wrong century. Russia is still too powerful.

    So it is hopeless, bloody and tragic. It will end badly for the consolidators…they will look back and say ‘we are sorry, we were manipulated and dreamt too much…‘. Whatever, but by then it will be too late, too many dead in the search for ethnic purity, for revenge, for goodies from the winking sponsors in the West.

    But you won’t learn, you will persist, escalate and look for a miracle. The escapees to places like Winnipeg will one day write sad songs and make aspirational movies. All for nothing, you are peeing into a hurricane, and the savvy Western sponsors cheer you on…where do you think the piss will end up?

  905. @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow

    It would be about time US lost its Great Power delusions. When a country has a hard time securing its south border against the myriad immigrants and feels the need to make a circus of shutting down a meteorological balloon, it's past time this country started some much needed self-reflection.

    Replies: @Beckow

    US suffers from a serious case of hubris…People in later stages of hubris become very selective in a narcissistic way: they think that only what they want matters. Other things are omitted or forbidden to discuss – the southern border, or the endless bombing adventures that killed millions and were all lost wars. Then one day it will dawn on them, they will realize the consequences, and suddenly they will become very contrite…

    Who I feel will sorry for – well, not really – are their devoted followers in Europe. They are not even in on the game, but they enthusiastically and voluntarily celebrate it, offer everything they have, worship it like some medieval beggar monks….an evolutionary failure. Maybe we will be better off without them.

  906. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    This war started quite earlier than last February. For "patriotic pensioners" this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus lands. For many of them it is a struggle they would want to see taken to its final conclusion - the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed. This too is predictable, these people in their inflamed patriotism are compensating for their generation's lackluster performance in the defense of their Soviet homeland, and for many of them, their cheering of its demise 30 years ago.



    In the case of my grandfather, he didn't need to compensate, he fought in a very dangerous situation during the siege and the blockade of Leningrad, was wounded three times and decorated for bravery. He proved that he was up to the task. He did not have the need to feel morally superior to his former enemies.

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    This is something Russian people are usually good at: they are usually not vindictive. Being vindictive is petty minded, something that most Russians I know are not. That is why all these "patriotic pensioners" often strike me as not really Russian in their attitudes of pretending to want to destroy the whole world for their perceived infringement of historical rights.

    Growing old my grandfather recognized the humanity of those he had to fight against in his youth. For most of his life he was a fierce man, growing old he let go of this . He died peacefully at close to 79 years old. In the last couple of years, he was very sick and became feeble. My mother took care of him and I helped when I was around. Little time after his death, we emigrated. My grandmother died a dozen years earlier. Today they are both buried together close to Peterhof, not far from the place where my grandfather battery stood for a prolonged time during the war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    …war started earlier than last February…this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus

    That is too generic…each war is a separate event. Some may read into it the long historical memories or grievances, but those are a lot less relevant.

    its final conclusion – the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed.

    Difficult dilemma: on both sides there is a fanatical core that prefers destroying the world to losing. The neo-cons and their acolytes in Kiev-Warsaw think: “Russia must be destroyed, once and for all!” In Russia a many in the elite probably prefer nukes to more retreats. The neo-cons are closer to power than their Russian counterparts. For now.

    There is a non-zero chance that the war will escalate to some use of the nukes, maybe small ones on military installations at first. Most likely targets would be the Russian or Nato bases (in Poland). It is serious. What would each side do if the following happens:
    – Russian military in Donbas collapses and Ukies (w allies) cross to the Rostov region or to Crimea
    – Ukies collapse in Donbas or Zaporozhie and Russians (w Donbas+ allies) head towards Dnipro or Kiev…

    In the moment of truth a decision would be made: take a humiliating loss or go va banque…Biden would be told: ‘you are an old man, just do it…’ in Moscow feverish security types would be screaming ‘…it is nukes or we perish forever!!!‘…those are the wages of escalating with an unstoppable force against an immovable object…

    On the plus side, if it goes off in a controlled way we could get rid of some strange fanatics who don’t have the human instinct for living a life…kind of like a giant Chernobyl that could be frozen for the next 1,000 years…and sorry, most of Poland would probably be within that reservation, that’s ok, the Poles never liked their eastern affiliation, the survivors can move to Greenland – a true North-West!

  907. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Some analysis of India is tough. However, in this case only two easy questions are required to grasp the situation for what it is:

    • What are the most Muslim parts of India?
    • What parts of India have the most inter breeding?

    One does not need to be a statistician to see the obvious, direct relationship between Islam and sexual deviancy.

    Is anyone surprised? I thought not.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme “guarding” of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /”brood of vipers” in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous “hypocrites” of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some “dragons/angels” as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of...female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome recombines, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins...
     
    True, but historically it was the male side that was seen as more valuable and worth preserving. Males would have relatively little concern about mixing with very different females - although not necessarily in a formal marriage with inheritance rights, etc...

    An essential element in the preference for cousin marriages was property - close enough relatives were preferable to strangers who could interfere with property distribution. There was also a strong social element: the inability to meet and mate with (respectable) women who were not cousins...that became self-enforcing as the rituals of family ties and arranged marriages became ossified.

    Going outside of one's own small group to mate was in the past quite tricky: of course, conquests and purchases assisted a small percentage of men, but in a routine small environments that most of our ancestors lived, meeting mate-able non-relatives was a challenge. Villagers tended to fight off outsiders and the logistics were quite complex.

    The Church's objection was often observed in a breach - a dispensation was frequent and if a child was involved (based on mid-19th century English records it was in up 50% marriages), it was seen as preferable. The genetics are a recent idea - our ancestors often perceived it in an opposite way: closer the better. The results, as we have seen with the Habsburg and other royal retards were horrific...the village idiots didn't get quite the notoriety but I suspect people would whisper about their ancestry...

    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back. It maximizes the selection process and minimizes survival of bad traits. If the genetic distance is too far - Negro with a Chinese, European with a Quechua Indio - the results can be very bad: the genes are picked at random with no coherence and the result can be dysfunctional. It actually gets better with a repeat mixing because some genetic familiarity is re-established...but the partial-Indio masses still strike most people as not healthy and underdeveloped. Mating closer than 7 generations back has been the norm for most of history - all of us are quite imperfect and destined to remain so :)...

    Replies: @AP

    , @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://i.ibb.co/M5ykx2c/F60-DF0-A8-B216-460-F-949-A-C19-FA7-EC6-FB6.jpg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Below a cautionary tale about cousin marriages from hard-core Mormons, which also makes us aware what is the holy Grail of cousin marriage: A CLONE. But those hard-core Mormons created a society which essentially is just a breeding farm form genetic purity, with a negative general social net effect of "discarding" unnecessary men. It makes us aware that no cousins (here perhaps not so coincidentally all marriage prospects are cousins) means no marriage in a closed community. So you see that it is pretty smart - from the angle of sustained cousin marriage of course - that Islam does not really enforce polygamy, which is much less common than cousin marriage.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170726-the-polygamous-town-facing-genetic-disaster

    “We are to gird up our loins and fulfil this, just as we would any other duty…” said Brigham Young, who led the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), or Mormons, back in the mid-19th Century. It was a sweltering summer’s day in Provo City, Utah and as he spoke, high winds swirled dust around him.
    The holy task Young was speaking of was, of course, polygyny, where one man takes many wives (also known by the gender neutral term polygamy). He was a passionate believer in the practice, which he announced as the official line of the church a few years earlier. Now he was set to work reassuring his flock that marrying multiple women was the right thing to do.
    He liked to lead by example. Though Young began his adult life as a devoted spouse to a single wife, by the time he died his family had swelled to 55 wives and 59 children.
    (...)
    In the end, the link to fumarase deficiency is a numbers game. Take Brigham Young. In all, his children begat 204 grandchildren, who, in turn, begat 745 great-grandchildren. By 1982, it was reported that he had at least 5,000 direct descendants.
    This sudden explosion is down to exponential growth. Even with just one wife and three children, if every subsequent generation follows suit a man can have 243 descendants after just five generations. In polygynous families this is supercharged. If every generation includes three wives and 30 children, a man can – theoretically – flood a community with over 24 million of his descendants in the space of five generations, or little over 100 years.
    (...)
    In isolated communities, the problem is compounded by basic arithmetic: if some men take multiple wives, others can’t have any. In the FLDS, a large proportion of men must be kicked out as teenagers, shrinking the gene pool even further.
    “They are driven to the highway by their mothers in the middle of the night and dumped by the side of the road,” says Amos Guiora, a legal expert at the University of Utah who has written a book about religious extremism. Some estimate that there may be up to a thousand so-called “lost boys”. “Often they spend years trying to repent, hoping to get back into the religion,” says Bistline, who has three brothers who were discarded. "


    Also, due to the low number of initial Mormons and insistence on marrying other Mormons, cousin marriage seems to be widespread among Mormons. Apparently they do not import their converts into Utah too, despite the fact that that could help resolve the problem of cousin marriage, which apparently isn't really a problem but maybe a desired effect.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/hn5fm4/is_incest_common_in_the_church/

    Not sure that incest is the right word... consanguineous marriage is probably a more accurate descriptor. Especially in the early church, there was a lot of that going on. Martin Harris was married to his first cousin (before joining). Joseph F Smith married his first cousin. Those of us in Utah with pioneer ancestry can pretty much bet that we’re all related within a few or more generations. Polygamy no doubt helped establish dominant lineages and those have been interwoven many times.
     

    And well, cloning (of women, of course) is quite popular topic nowadays, being even one of the main themes of the last Jurassic Park movie. The scrip writers must have read on Dragon bloodlines or something.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_World_Dominion

    Wu meets Maisie and explains that his former colleague, Dr. Charlotte Lockwood (Benjamin Lockwood's deceased daughter), used her own DNA to replicate and give birth to the genetically identical Maisie. Charlotte altered Maisie's DNA to prevent her from inheriting the fatal disease which she had.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history
     
    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?

    religion of Abraham
     
    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian. This expresses the shared values & beliefs found in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments. And, it excludes religions with fundamentally different priorities that merely have adjacent geography.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

  908. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme "guarding" of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /"brood of vipers" in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous "hypocrites" of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some "dragons/angels" as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    …genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of…female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome recombines, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins…

    True, but historically it was the male side that was seen as more valuable and worth preserving. Males would have relatively little concern about mixing with very different females – although not necessarily in a formal marriage with inheritance rights, etc…

    An essential element in the preference for cousin marriages was property – close enough relatives were preferable to strangers who could interfere with property distribution. There was also a strong social element: the inability to meet and mate with (respectable) women who were not cousins...that became self-enforcing as the rituals of family ties and arranged marriages became ossified.

    Going outside of one’s own small group to mate was in the past quite tricky: of course, conquests and purchases assisted a small percentage of men, but in a routine small environments that most of our ancestors lived, meeting mate-able non-relatives was a challenge. Villagers tended to fight off outsiders and the logistics were quite complex.

    The Church’s objection was often observed in a breach – a dispensation was frequent and if a child was involved (based on mid-19th century English records it was in up 50% marriages), it was seen as preferable. The genetics are a recent idea – our ancestors often perceived it in an opposite way: closer the better. The results, as we have seen with the Habsburg and other royal retards were horrific…the village idiots didn’t get quite the notoriety but I suspect people would whisper about their ancestry…

    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back. It maximizes the selection process and minimizes survival of bad traits. If the genetic distance is too far – Negro with a Chinese, European with a Quechua Indio – the results can be very bad: the genes are picked at random with no coherence and the result can be dysfunctional. It actually gets better with a repeat mixing because some genetic familiarity is re-established…but the partial-Indio masses still strike most people as not healthy and underdeveloped. Mating closer than 7 generations back has been the norm for most of history – all of us are quite imperfect and destined to remain so :)…

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back.
     
    It's closer - 3rd and 4th cousins are ideal from the perspective of offspring health:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-incest-is-best-kissi/

    But there is a dramatic decline in health with 2nd cousins and 1st cousins.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  909. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme "guarding" of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /"brood of vipers" in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous "hypocrites" of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some "dragons/angels" as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya

    There was a time when I was pretty hard on Islam, but studying evolution of religions (or what in German would be named Wirkungsgeschichte) made me more mellow on it: I understand that Islam was pretty heavily infected by pre-Islamic traditions. I even think it is probable there are "satanic" (i.e. pagan) verses in Quran. I am also aware - by visiting some English islamic forums - that it is hard to say anything new there since independently thinking people are heavily policed by other users with arguments like "of which madhaba this view is", "is any recognized imam saying this?" etc. Islamic internal discourse is clearly very stale, much more than in Christianity or Judaism (where there is pretty wide divergence of opinions among rabbis sometimes). Certainly "the closing of the door of Ijithad"(jurisprudence) around 10th century- an event which had not parallels in Christianity or Judaism - fostered this staleness in some way, independently of any West actions.
    Caveat: by Islam I meant here mainly Quran and Sunnah, not cultures of Islamic countries, which are often influenced by pre-Islamic traditions.

    Well, I think the dysgenic practices of many Islamic communities, especially cousin marriage, will prevent Islam conquest of the world on its own. The forces which foster the global conflict of Islam with Christianity are not centred in Mekkah: they are agents provocateurs. If they import enough Pakistanis into Europe, then yes, some conflict could happen.

    It is also worth remembering that many Islamic countries are net-importers of food, which is produced from Arab oil in the West due to the Green Revolution of the past. Nevertheless, food is more important than oil (the West could perhaps limp forward without Arab oil, but the Arab world would have much greater problems without food import from the West), so I don't think Islam could attack the West in this situation of mutual dependence.

  910. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme "guarding" of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /"brood of vipers" in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous "hypocrites" of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some "dragons/angels" as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    Below a cautionary tale about cousin marriages from hard-core Mormons, which also makes us aware what is the holy Grail of cousin marriage: A CLONE. But those hard-core Mormons created a society which essentially is just a breeding farm form genetic purity, with a negative general social net effect of “discarding” unnecessary men. It makes us aware that no cousins (here perhaps not so coincidentally all marriage prospects are cousins) means no marriage in a closed community. So you see that it is pretty smart – from the angle of sustained cousin marriage of course – that Islam does not really enforce polygamy, which is much less common than cousin marriage.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170726-the-polygamous-town-facing-genetic-disaster

    “We are to gird up our loins and fulfil this, just as we would any other duty…” said Brigham Young, who led the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), or Mormons, back in the mid-19th Century. It was a sweltering summer’s day in Provo City, Utah and as he spoke, high winds swirled dust around him.
    The holy task Young was speaking of was, of course, polygyny, where one man takes many wives (also known by the gender neutral term polygamy). He was a passionate believer in the practice, which he announced as the official line of the church a few years earlier. Now he was set to work reassuring his flock that marrying multiple women was the right thing to do.
    He liked to lead by example. Though Young began his adult life as a devoted spouse to a single wife, by the time he died his family had swelled to 55 wives and 59 children.
    (…)
    In the end, the link to fumarase deficiency is a numbers game. Take Brigham Young. In all, his children begat 204 grandchildren, who, in turn, begat 745 great-grandchildren. By 1982, it was reported that he had at least 5,000 direct descendants.
    This sudden explosion is down to exponential growth. Even with just one wife and three children, if every subsequent generation follows suit a man can have 243 descendants after just five generations. In polygynous families this is supercharged. If every generation includes three wives and 30 children, a man can – theoretically – flood a community with over 24 million of his descendants in the space of five generations, or little over 100 years.
    (…)
    In isolated communities, the problem is compounded by basic arithmetic: if some men take multiple wives, others can’t have any. In the FLDS, a large proportion of men must be kicked out as teenagers, shrinking the gene pool even further.
    “They are driven to the highway by their mothers in the middle of the night and dumped by the side of the road,” says Amos Guiora, a legal expert at the University of Utah who has written a book about religious extremism. Some estimate that there may be up to a thousand so-called “lost boys”. “Often they spend years trying to repent, hoping to get back into the religion,” says Bistline, who has three brothers who were discarded. ”

    Also, due to the low number of initial Mormons and insistence on marrying other Mormons, cousin marriage seems to be widespread among Mormons. Apparently they do not import their converts into Utah too, despite the fact that that could help resolve the problem of cousin marriage, which apparently isn’t really a problem but maybe a desired effect.

    Is incest common in the church? from exmormon

    Not sure that incest is the right word… consanguineous marriage is probably a more accurate descriptor. Especially in the early church, there was a lot of that going on. Martin Harris was married to his first cousin (before joining). Joseph F Smith married his first cousin. Those of us in Utah with pioneer ancestry can pretty much bet that we’re all related within a few or more generations. Polygamy no doubt helped establish dominant lineages and those have been interwoven many times.

    And well, cloning (of women, of course) is quite popular topic nowadays, being even one of the main themes of the last Jurassic Park movie. The scrip writers must have read on Dragon bloodlines or something.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_World_Dominion

    Wu meets Maisie and explains that his former colleague, Dr. Charlotte Lockwood (Benjamin Lockwood’s deceased daughter), used her own DNA to replicate and give birth to the genetically identical Maisie. Charlotte altered Maisie’s DNA to prevent her from inheriting the fatal disease which she had.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I've been living among Mormons for quite a long time so let me offer some corrections to what you wrote:

    - Mormons did import converts to Utah since the very beginning. Shortly after the settlement of the initial pioneers with New England and Midwestern roots, large contingents of converts from the British Islands, Scandinavia, Germany and elsewhere came to Utah. The process never stopped. A visible contingent of Pacific Islander converts has been living in Utah for generations and Latino Mormons in Utah, another group with old roots, keep increasing their numbers.

    - Calling Fundamentalist Mormons 'hard-core' is misleading. It's a bit like calling Orthodox Christians "hard-core Christians". They retained customs and tenets of the religion as it was practiced originally but have very little in common with Mainstream Mormonism, apart from their common origin. In fact, FLDS members are excommunicated and forbidden from entering Mormon temples, which even myself (an atheist) have often been invited to do. In Utah nobody would understand the expression 'hard-core Mormons' to refer to the fringe FLDS groups. In Mormonism, as in every religion, you have the observant, the very observant, the lukewarmers, the "cultural Mormons" who don't believe but go along with the customs and a very vocal group of ex-Mormons who hate their former religion with a passion, not dissimilar to what happens in all other faiths.

    - The small community of FLDS on the border with Arizona is famous for the genetic aberrations caused by generations of in-group relationships but this has little to do with the population of Utah at large. Utah has some of the best longevity and health metrics in the US and I very much doubt that people in Utah are more inbred than in many other rural communities all across the US. In fact, I would say that Utahns in general look better than most other Americans, although this is of course a subjective opinion and to some extent it may have to do with the fact that Utahns, to a larger extent than most other Americans, descend from Northwestern Europeans, the old "Aryan" archetype.

    - Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah. The scenarios of exponential growth of descendants of a few founder members didn't have the time to materialize.

    Mormonism is a weird religion, perhaps more obviously fake than the longer established ones (at least if your tolerance for irrationality is not very low), and it seems to be tempting to jump to easy conclusions based on a cursory, mostly web-based knowledge of Mormons but in real life Mormons are quite ordinary people, decent, generally welcoming, a bit naive but capable of creating extremely functional communities. Btw, Utah is a leading center of genetic studies. Medical professionals in Utah, very often Mormons, are sure to be aware of the genetic consequences that the settlement patterns of the state may or may not not have caused as much as anyone else.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

  911. Robert Fitzgerald’s translation of The Aeneid is available on Amazon for $5:

  912. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://i.ibb.co/M5ykx2c/F60-DF0-A8-B216-460-F-949-A-C19-FA7-EC6-FB6.jpg

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    There was a time when I was pretty hard on Islam, but studying evolution of religions (or what in German would be named Wirkungsgeschichte) made me more mellow on it: I understand that Islam was pretty heavily infected by pre-Islamic traditions. I even think it is probable there are “satanic” (i.e. pagan) verses in Quran. I am also aware – by visiting some English islamic forums – that it is hard to say anything new there since independently thinking people are heavily policed by other users with arguments like “of which madhaba this view is”, “is any recognized imam saying this?” etc. Islamic internal discourse is clearly very stale, much more than in Christianity or Judaism (where there is pretty wide divergence of opinions among rabbis sometimes). Certainly “the closing of the door of Ijithad”(jurisprudence) around 10th century- an event which had not parallels in Christianity or Judaism – fostered this staleness in some way, independently of any West actions.
    Caveat: by Islam I meant here mainly Quran and Sunnah, not cultures of Islamic countries, which are often influenced by pre-Islamic traditions.

    Well, I think the dysgenic practices of many Islamic communities, especially cousin marriage, will prevent Islam conquest of the world on its own. The forces which foster the global conflict of Islam with Christianity are not centred in Mekkah: they are agents provocateurs. If they import enough Pakistanis into Europe, then yes, some conflict could happen.

    It is also worth remembering that many Islamic countries are net-importers of food, which is produced from Arab oil in the West due to the Green Revolution of the past. Nevertheless, food is more important than oil (the West could perhaps limp forward without Arab oil, but the Arab world would have much greater problems without food import from the West), so I don’t think Islam could attack the West in this situation of mutual dependence.

  913. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history – for example, Roman Catholic Church banned it, but then Protestants allowed it again (twisting it the other way than Quran: claiming that the general ban of Leviticus 18:6 is not general due to later verses) that one has to ask himself: why some people insist on cousin marriage through history? Why it is so extremely important for them that they are ready to accept its heavy genetic downsides? What are the upsides?

    Genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of race, and specifically, purity of female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome does recombine, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins. In this sense, cousin marriage could be seen as a form of racism, as genetically it is a worship of female bloodlines, which likely led to the culture of extreme "guarding" of women , also exceeding what is prescribed in Quran itself.

    The cultural tradition which makes these people marry cousins has nothing to do with any religion of Abraham… since cousin marriages are so prevalent in the areas of former Great Goddess pagan civilizations like Harappa in Pakistan and Dravidian in India that they have probably something to do with them. That were areas where a snake was worshipped, which allows us to think they might be ones referred to as “offspring of serpent” /"brood of vipers" in the Bible, starting from Genesis. I think similar setup could take place at the beginning of Islam, since the arrival of Prophet Muhammad had been heavily opposed by many people (so much that Muhammad fled from Mekka to Medina), who later apparently still opposed him, only secretly as the infamous "hypocrites" of Quran.

    Since the cousin marriages tries to keep genetic material pure, it is also a specific form of ancestor worship, maybe even seeing some "dragons/angels" as those ancestors, which gives some credibility to Emil musings on dragons bloodlines… Because, otherwise, why…?

    Replies: @Beckow, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective, @A123

    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history

    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?

    religion of Abraham

    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian. This expresses the shared values & beliefs found in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments. And, it excludes religions with fundamentally different priorities that merely have adjacent geography.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?
     

    The group in India which is most obsessed with cousin marriage are Parsis, not Muslims: apparently cousin marriage invaded Zoroastrianism too. Parsis are like kind of Mekkans who fought Muhammad; they are (were) a community of merchants, being once very prominent in opium smuggling to China.

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Indus_Valley_Civilization%2C_Mature_Phase_%282600-1900_BCE%29.png


    Hindu marry their cousins too, especially in South India. In fact, anthropological real-life examples of matrilineal communities often come from South India.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-South-Indians-marry-their-cousins


    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian.

     

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Coconuts
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.
     
    Perhaps 'the past will be a future country', to quote another Ed Dutton book title. Muslims are growing part of all Western European populations, this doesn't seem likely to stop at any time soon.

    Afaik, from the HBD side cousin marriage is known to present evolutionary advantages in some circumstances, it increases resistance to certain tropical diseases, raises ethnocentrism and in group preference, lowers IQ somewhat, but this helps to maintain fertility levels.

    At one point Dr. Dutton was advocating using genealogy research sites like ancestry.com as a kind of dating site, find your third cousins and marry one of them. Apparently third cousin is supposed to be optimum for relationship longevity and fertility.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  914. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history
     
    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?

    religion of Abraham
     
    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian. This expresses the shared values & beliefs found in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments. And, it excludes religions with fundamentally different priorities that merely have adjacent geography.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?

    The group in India which is most obsessed with cousin marriage are Parsis, not Muslims: apparently cousin marriage invaded Zoroastrianism too. Parsis are like kind of Mekkans who fought Muhammad; they are (were) a community of merchants, being once very prominent in opium smuggling to China.

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    Hindu marry their cousins too, especially in South India. In fact, anthropological real-life examples of matrilineal communities often come from South India.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-South-Indians-marry-their-cousins

    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian.

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.
     
    Hmmm.... I'll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography. After 1,000+ years, one would expect behaviour to diverge.

    We would need more data to drill down on the subgroups.



    Instead try Judeo-Christian
     
    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:

    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).
     

    In common usage 99%+ of the references are to the first, though your language needs some minor tweaks.

    1) Common elements of Judaism and Christianity, and thus self evidently unrelated to Islam

    Unless you are in a discussion exclusively with academics (theologians and/or historians), you can safely assume that no one will grasp for the second option when the first is a better fit for the topic at hand.

    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead. I though it was going to fade away into disuse. Then, the "Abraham Accords" resuscitated it. That the deals exist is obviously good, but what a terrible name.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul
     
    Is there a significant difference between Anglicanism, other forms of high church Protestantism and Reform Judaism?

    And is there an Islamic equivalent?

    Unsurprisingly, Judaism seems to sit between Islam and Christianity, with parts that look like each of them, even in their own diversities. But Islam doesn't seem to have any parts that look like what Christianity means to me.

    Perhaps someone can let me know of a part of Islam that both allows its practitioners space and isn't totally esoteric (probably to hide from the crazies)?

    I suppose you might try and make some sort of theological points, but I prefer to focus on the practice, as this is where actual meaning comes from, for the vast majority of participants.

    To me, the theology is kind of silly anyway. You can see it in the tortured rationalisations of the various arguments, and the way in which things that simply don't matter are held up as crucially important.

    E.g was Jesus "the" son of god, or an other sort of spiritual entity particularly successful at spreading a reminder to people that they might try being less self-ingorant because what they would find would be good?

    Does it matter?

    Does anyone really think that an omniscient being will punish you for misidentifying him?

    Or, unless the punishment had the practical effect of eventually helping you, does anyone really think that such a being would punish you eternally?

    Hilarious that humans would project their own tendencies towards ignorant self-punishment onto a completely non-ignorant god.

    God isn't jealous. Jealousy is a human phenomenon born of cowardice in the face of fear and the subsequent ignorance which it entails. It does not even exist in god's presence.

    I appreciate that people need to project their delusions onto other things so as to deal with them at an emotional distance, but the irony here is too much.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If you read old anthropology ethnographies it seems cousin marriage is in there often. A specific cousin. If your dad is the oldest or second oldest in your grandparents' brood, close your eyes for thirty seconds and imagine yourself married to your old aunt's first daughter.

    And puke maybe. For myself this is an extreme unpleasant visualization. Maybe if you have an odd sense of humor you would enjoy taunting some of your relatives with this story. : )

  915. @Greasy William
    @QCIC


    Is Iraq the parallel for Ukraine?
     
    At this stage of the war, I see Iraq as a parallel for Ukraine although in the initial part of the war Iraq was more like Russia.

    Iraq invaded Iran in an operation that was supposed to be a walkover. The Iranian regime was seen as an existential threat to Iraq but at the same time Iran was thought to be militarily extremely weak.

    Iraq had some initial success but then completely fell apart due to a mixture of Iranian heroism and Iraqi incompetence. Then Iran counterattacked, pushing Iraq out of Iranian territory and capturing territory in southern Iraq. At this stage Saddam sued for peace based on the status quo ante but Khomeni's regime was in the grips of religious and nationalistic fervor and turned down all peace offerings, demanding nothing less than the end of Saddam's regime.

    For the next 6 years the Iranians would use costly frontal assaults against Iraqs dug in forces, inflicting almost as many casualties as they suffered. These attacks on numerous occasions had initial success but they were never able to achieve operational breakthrough.

    To end the war, Saddam launched missiles at Iranian cities and attacked Iranian tankers in the Persian Gulf. But it wasn't enough. It wasn't even close to enough. Even with anti draft protests breaking out all over Iran, Khomeini was determined to continue the war until the bitter end.

    At this point, it was gently made clear to Saddam by his henchmen that there would be a coup if he did not allow his generals to fight the war properly (Saddam had forbidden different units of the army to have any communication with each other and he required that all orders needed to be routed through Baghdad, this made the type of coordination necessary to succeed in modern war completely impossible; he had actually forbidden to bulk of his army to even engage in training exercises). Saddam, fearing that Iran now poised a greater danger to his rule than his own army (the army of Saddam's Iraq was designed to be coup proof before anything else), relented and took the handcuffs off his general. This was in 1988.

    Overnight things changed. Iraq's massive technological and material superiority, which had done Iraq no good in the first 8 years of the conflict, was finally effectively utilized on the battlefield. The Iraqi army scored a series of lightning victories and drove the Iranian troops out of tracts of Iraqi territory that Iran had successfully held for years. Iraq then conquered a small piece of Iran at which point Saddam again offered Iran based on the status quo ante provided that Iran evacuated the piece of southern Iraq that it still held. Saddam threatened that if Iran did not agree, that Iraq would conquer more Iranian territory.

    Khomeini saw the war as an apocalyptic struggle. He had sent hundreds of thousands of young men to their deaths because this was a cause he believed in to the depths of his soul. But it no longer mattered: now even his most loyal supporters in the regime knew that there was no possibility of victory and that they needed to accept peace. Khomeini was made to realize it was either take the deal or step down (at best) and he (very) reluctantly gave in. Khomeini was actually so devastated that he had to accept the ceasefire that, in his speech announcing it, he basically said that he wished that he himself had been martyred in the war so he could have been spared the pain of having to come to terms with Saddam's Iraq.


    Anyway, obviously far from a 1 to 1 parallel with Ukraine/Russia, but there are similarities. I think what will happen, eventually, is that Ukraine will eventually break through the fortified Russian lines and cut off the landbridge to Crimea. At this point, the US will tell Russia, "accept peace based on the status quo ante or we will allow the Ukrainians to reconquer Crimea". Putin will agree because his own cronies will give him no other choice.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea. Russia has put down so many absurd red lines that this red line has been rendered meaningless. Even China doesn’t recognise Russian sovereignty over Ukraine, so nuclear threats would be unwelcome anyway. Anyone who doesn’t realise that China, India, Brazil etc would cut Russia off,
    even from the neutrality they show it currently, and leave it entirely isolated if Russia threatened global nuclear destruction, is quite stupid. Receiving oil subsidised at great expense by the Russian people is great, but it isn’t “accepting destroying the entire human future because it can’t handle the embarrassment of losing a war of choice” great.

    I would therefore strongly advise Putin to offer to standown at the next election, return his troops to the status quo ante, pay substantial compensation and drop all opposition to Ukraine entering the EU, in return for immediate peace and the dropping of sanctions, all as soon as possible. There is no better outcome that Russia can achieve and it is only downhill from here.

    It might be hard to accept that this deal would be worse than one it could have gotten yesterday, but it is better than one it could get tomorrow. The trajectory should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of courage.

    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea
     
    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated
    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea's civilian population
    3. The West doesn't want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Mikel

  916. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    This war started quite earlier than last February. For "patriotic pensioners" this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus lands. For many of them it is a struggle they would want to see taken to its final conclusion - the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed. This too is predictable, these people in their inflamed patriotism are compensating for their generation's lackluster performance in the defense of their Soviet homeland, and for many of them, their cheering of its demise 30 years ago.



    In the case of my grandfather, he didn't need to compensate, he fought in a very dangerous situation during the siege and the blockade of Leningrad, was wounded three times and decorated for bravery. He proved that he was up to the task. He did not have the need to feel morally superior to his former enemies.

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    This is something Russian people are usually good at: they are usually not vindictive. Being vindictive is petty minded, something that most Russians I know are not. That is why all these "patriotic pensioners" often strike me as not really Russian in their attitudes of pretending to want to destroy the whole world for their perceived infringement of historical rights.

    Growing old my grandfather recognized the humanity of those he had to fight against in his youth. For most of his life he was a fierce man, growing old he let go of this . He died peacefully at close to 79 years old. In the last couple of years, he was very sick and became feeble. My mother took care of him and I helped when I was around. Little time after his death, we emigrated. My grandmother died a dozen years earlier. Today they are both buried together close to Peterhof, not far from the place where my grandfather battery stood for a prolonged time during the war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    Was this your Ukrainian grandfather, the one who had a copy of Shevchenko’s Kobzar close bye and who enjoyed reading it? I get your family chronology mixed-up, as their seems to be a northern variant in the Peter area, the South Eastern variant (the original?) where I think that Gramps was from, and then there’s of course yourself, right in the middle, a Muscovite….

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian). The Polish side I was able to trace to early nineteenth century Belarus. The Ukrainian side is more exotic, there might have been Turkic roots. He spoke and was literate in Ukrainian and kept his "southern Russian" accent to the end of his life, but he didn't see himself as that different from his Russian friends and neighbors. At that time it didn't really matter. The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war. The Russian side is near Penza, also in Piter and Moscow, but there are distant relatives in Siberia and Murmansk area too. There are millions of people of mixed ancestry between the two countries.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  917. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?
     

    The group in India which is most obsessed with cousin marriage are Parsis, not Muslims: apparently cousin marriage invaded Zoroastrianism too. Parsis are like kind of Mekkans who fought Muhammad; they are (were) a community of merchants, being once very prominent in opium smuggling to China.

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Indus_Valley_Civilization%2C_Mature_Phase_%282600-1900_BCE%29.png


    Hindu marry their cousins too, especially in South India. In fact, anthropological real-life examples of matrilineal communities often come from South India.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-South-Indians-marry-their-cousins


    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian.

     

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    Hmmm…. I’ll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography. After 1,000+ years, one would expect behaviour to diverge.

    We would need more data to drill down on the subgroups.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:

    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    In common usage 99%+ of the references are to the first, though your language needs some minor tweaks.

    1) Common elements of Judaism and Christianity, and thus self evidently unrelated to Islam

    Unless you are in a discussion exclusively with academics (theologians and/or historians), you can safely assume that no one will grasp for the second option when the first is a better fit for the topic at hand.

    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead. I though it was going to fade away into disuse. Then, the “Abraham Accords” resuscitated it. That the deals exist is obviously good, but what a terrible name.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    Hmmm…. I’ll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography.
     
    Yes, it is not intuitive; it demands the knowledge of history. This is why a lot of false opinions are going around, and which you seem to be intent on spreading further.

    The Great Goddess cult can be found from Aegean to Decan; this also explains popularity of cousin marriages in unexpected places like Uzbekistan (Fergana Valley).


    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead.
     
    It could be the opposite way, too. Jews themselves say that Islam is more similar to Judaism than Christianity. This is absent from a misleading term "Judeo-Christian", which opens doors to a potential conflict between Judaism & Christianity and Islam.

    "Abrahamic" I find pretty good - it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist. As such, it is not antagonizing in the way Judeo-Christian is. Since 'Abrahamic" refers to the beginning it does not imposes too-high level of unity too; on the other hand, "Judeo-Christian" is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is "Judaic".

    Replies: @A123

  918. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    I would be interested in hearing more about who is it that “needed” Prigozhin in RusFed and should have not “allowed” him in Ukraine.
     
    Oh, I simply meant he should've been taken out by the Ukrainians (if it were possible).
    Его просто валить надо, все равно в Украине или в России.

    I mean, there must be someone out of a population of 140M people to lead Russia besides this guy...


    Using a sledgehammer.
     
    Of course, the mighty kuvalda, the fantastic tool that brings us back to the Stone Age in the 21st century. :) Return of primal masculinity. :)

    Well, who knows if he could have a way to put the whole system under him.


    Which one of them ?
     
    You believe there are doubles? Some say there are 2 or 3. Quite possible. Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn't him.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn’t him.

    I saw the video from a handheld camera at 6 or 7 feet. If that was not Putin it was Stanley Kubrick quality production. If I’m betting it was him.

    Body doubles are not really for close up shot of facial expression.

    The hockey videos would be much easier. That is not an activity for people past their 30th birthday. Yikes.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    I saw the video from a handheld camera at 6 or 7 feet. If that was not Putin it was Stanley Kubrick quality production. If I’m betting it was him.
     
    After I heard that it might be a double, I watched the video carefully and could've sworn it was him. And yet quite a few sources keep bringing up that he has doubles. Which there is nothing wrong with actually, as long as it doesn't turn into some alternate reality type of thing.

    The hockey videos would be much easier. That is not an activity for people past their 30th birthday. Yikes.
     
    I think Luka still plays. But of course he is slow. Many Latvian men still play in their 40s and 50s, as amateur players for fun. In Russia, too, older guys play just for fun. Ice hockey is like second nature to quite a few Russian and Baltic men. But Putin was a bit of a poseur with the whole thing (they always allowed him to score).

    And of course he couldn't do it in his current condition, he may have done it a few years back but he's really changed in these last few years, has become noticeably frail (and coughing a lot), major changes happen in terms of aging from around 70-73. I've noticed it with my older relatives, they become suddenly very slow.

    Putin hardly travels now and sits at a very long table. I think the Covid isolation had a major effect on him, I wonder if he might have what they call long Covid, he has changed mentally as well.
  919. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    This war started quite earlier than last February. For "patriotic pensioners" this war is an existential struggle that has started as soon as Western influence (especially Uniatism) has reached Rus lands. For many of them it is a struggle they would want to see taken to its final conclusion - the nuclear war. The West must be destroyed. This too is predictable, these people in their inflamed patriotism are compensating for their generation's lackluster performance in the defense of their Soviet homeland, and for many of them, their cheering of its demise 30 years ago.



    In the case of my grandfather, he didn't need to compensate, he fought in a very dangerous situation during the siege and the blockade of Leningrad, was wounded three times and decorated for bravery. He proved that he was up to the task. He did not have the need to feel morally superior to his former enemies.

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    This is something Russian people are usually good at: they are usually not vindictive. Being vindictive is petty minded, something that most Russians I know are not. That is why all these "patriotic pensioners" often strike me as not really Russian in their attitudes of pretending to want to destroy the whole world for their perceived infringement of historical rights.

    Growing old my grandfather recognized the humanity of those he had to fight against in his youth. For most of his life he was a fierce man, growing old he let go of this . He died peacefully at close to 79 years old. In the last couple of years, he was very sick and became feeble. My mother took care of him and I helped when I was around. Little time after his death, we emigrated. My grandmother died a dozen years earlier. Today they are both buried together close to Peterhof, not far from the place where my grandfather battery stood for a prolonged time during the war.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow

    The true and worst enemy of the proud and the strong is not external. To be truly strong one must completely control oneself. To do this, one must completely understand oneself. Few people get to this point of realization. Once we understand ourselves more, we see that other people, including those who wronged us, are fundamentally no different from what we are. Not some imaginary monster, but a human being.

    I agree, but also they are fundamentally different. They are able to not know themselves. This means they have all sorts of illusory drives and motivations, born of the dark space between their limited lines of perception.

    But ultimately, were I know to be able to know only what they know, I would, yes, surely do the same as they are truly trying their best.

    Forgiveness and forgetting is therefore instant, if they can at least begin to see what they are doing, as surely they will therefore soon stop.

    And forgiveness by itself is constant, for the reasons detailed above.

    But sometimes this particular person’s lifetime has run its course, they are currently all but incapable of growth, and just need to disposed of so they can come back afresh.

  920. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Cousin marriage in Islam is controversial, since it is all ultimately based on twisting specific, Muhammad-only qualification of Quran 33:50 verse to general meaning. So I have read.

    The problem of cousin marriage repeats so often in history
     
    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?

    religion of Abraham
     
    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian. This expresses the shared values & beliefs found in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments. And, it excludes religions with fundamentally different priorities that merely have adjacent geography.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Perhaps ‘the past will be a future country’, to quote another Ed Dutton book title. Muslims are growing part of all Western European populations, this doesn’t seem likely to stop at any time soon.

    Afaik, from the HBD side cousin marriage is known to present evolutionary advantages in some circumstances, it increases resistance to certain tropical diseases, raises ethnocentrism and in group preference, lowers IQ somewhat, but this helps to maintain fertility levels.

    At one point Dr. Dutton was advocating using genealogy research sites like ancestry.com as a kind of dating site, find your third cousins and marry one of them. Apparently third cousin is supposed to be optimum for relationship longevity and fertility.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.

    If there are some evolutionary advantages for a gene, Nature itself will provide, killing those who lack it. Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface. You need to read my comment no 917. here: the example of Mormon community where one of the MOST COMMON enzymes (fumarase) became faulty speaks for itself.

    Plus, the example from "Jurassic World Dominion" speaks not just about cloning but about CLONING TOGETHER WITH REMOVING FAULTY GENES.
    This is the real Holy Grail.

    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too. It is numbers game. Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like; it is both accepting and bringing suffering for ones (humans with faulty genes) to have others without faulty genes. In this sense, cousin marriages are eugenic marriages.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

  921. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.
     
    Hmmm.... I'll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography. After 1,000+ years, one would expect behaviour to diverge.

    We would need more data to drill down on the subgroups.



    Instead try Judeo-Christian
     
    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:

    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).
     

    In common usage 99%+ of the references are to the first, though your language needs some minor tweaks.

    1) Common elements of Judaism and Christianity, and thus self evidently unrelated to Islam

    Unless you are in a discussion exclusively with academics (theologians and/or historians), you can safely assume that no one will grasp for the second option when the first is a better fit for the topic at hand.

    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead. I though it was going to fade away into disuse. Then, the "Abraham Accords" resuscitated it. That the deals exist is obviously good, but what a terrible name.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Hmmm…. I’ll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography.

    Yes, it is not intuitive; it demands the knowledge of history. This is why a lot of false opinions are going around, and which you seem to be intent on spreading further.

    The Great Goddess cult can be found from Aegean to Decan; this also explains popularity of cousin marriages in unexpected places like Uzbekistan (Fergana Valley).

    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead.

    It could be the opposite way, too. Jews themselves say that Islam is more similar to Judaism than Christianity. This is absent from a misleading term “Judeo-Christian”, which opens doors to a potential conflict between Judaism & Christianity and Islam.

    “Abrahamic” I find pretty good – it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist. As such, it is not antagonizing in the way Judeo-Christian is. Since ‘Abrahamic” refers to the beginning it does not imposes too-high level of unity too; on the other hand, “Judeo-Christian” is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is “Judaic”.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    “Abrahamic” I find pretty good – it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist.
     
    Here is any easy question to prove the point that "continuity" has always been more fiction than fact.

    What were the top two religions attacked by Muhammad's Colonial Jihad ~600 AD?

    It is not hard to figure out that the answer is Christians and Jews. The spread of the settler religion of Islam and its establishment of Muslim colonies in Palestine was a tragedy to the indigenous religions of Christianity and Judaism.

    Enmity between Christianity and Islam stretches out over centuries as the Crusades liberated the Holy Lands, which were then subsequently lost (again).

    In modern practice, Judaism and Islam have fully diverged. At this point the overlap is largely; Superficial, such as place names, or; Coincidental, both ban pork. Any historical "continuity" that existed ended in blood when Muslims started bombing defenseless Jewish children for daring to live the religious homeland of Judaism.

    Jews and Christians are threatened by the same foreign foe. Judeo-Christian unity is an admixture of faith and survival. That is a strong bond.


    “Judeo-Christian” is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is “Judaic”.
     
    ROTFL -- Are you kidding????? Try to be serious. Every Christian grasps:

    • Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.

    The really important rules, such as the Ten Commandments hold across both Jews and Christians.

    OK. If Christians go into woke churches, or attempt to listen to Pope Muhammad Francis, they may be confused about "Judaic". However, they will also be confused about how "Christian" Christianity is supposed to be. That is not a counter to the obvious structural, biblical overlap that underpins the unity of Judeo-Christian values.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

  922. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?
     

    The group in India which is most obsessed with cousin marriage are Parsis, not Muslims: apparently cousin marriage invaded Zoroastrianism too. Parsis are like kind of Mekkans who fought Muhammad; they are (were) a community of merchants, being once very prominent in opium smuggling to China.

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Indus_Valley_Civilization%2C_Mature_Phase_%282600-1900_BCE%29.png


    Hindu marry their cousins too, especially in South India. In fact, anthropological real-life examples of matrilineal communities often come from South India.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-South-Indians-marry-their-cousins


    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian.

     

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Is there a significant difference between Anglicanism, other forms of high church Protestantism and Reform Judaism?

    And is there an Islamic equivalent?

    Unsurprisingly, Judaism seems to sit between Islam and Christianity, with parts that look like each of them, even in their own diversities. But Islam doesn’t seem to have any parts that look like what Christianity means to me.

    Perhaps someone can let me know of a part of Islam that both allows its practitioners space and isn’t totally esoteric (probably to hide from the crazies)?

    I suppose you might try and make some sort of theological points, but I prefer to focus on the practice, as this is where actual meaning comes from, for the vast majority of participants.

    To me, the theology is kind of silly anyway. You can see it in the tortured rationalisations of the various arguments, and the way in which things that simply don’t matter are held up as crucially important.

    E.g was Jesus “the” son of god, or an other sort of spiritual entity particularly successful at spreading a reminder to people that they might try being less self-ingorant because what they would find would be good?

    Does it matter?

    Does anyone really think that an omniscient being will punish you for misidentifying him?

    Or, unless the punishment had the practical effect of eventually helping you, does anyone really think that such a being would punish you eternally?

    Hilarious that humans would project their own tendencies towards ignorant self-punishment onto a completely non-ignorant god.

    God isn’t jealous. Jealousy is a human phenomenon born of cowardice in the face of fear and the subsequent ignorance which it entails. It does not even exist in god’s presence.

    I appreciate that people need to project their delusions onto other things so as to deal with them at an emotional distance, but the irony here is too much.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You'd probably like the Sufis - they weren't always particularly esoteric, either. And in different ages Islam was more relaxed and tolerant and less restrictive and confining, and quite attractive. I think I probably would have enjoyed living in Baghdad, Cairo, or Morocco, or perhaps Moorish Spain, during certain centuries. (The real Sufis, I don't mean fake-Sufis like Talha - all genuine spiritual movements eventually get coopted by the mainstream and are transformed into their opposite, as we saw with AP-style Christianity.)

    Being relaxed and tolerant and open and free is a function of strength and confidence, and Islam today is battered, bruised, and lacking in confidence.

    You can't take a culture at its lowest and call it typical. For that matter, as we increasingly see in Israel, Orthodox Jews are becoming more fundamentalist, and with that hideous new Catholic fascist movement - I forget it's name - Christianity isn't doing too well either. And of course, Modi's India, and Sher Singh's version of Sikhism (although I'm not sure he's indicative of anything).

    These are all signs of a sense of threat from modernity and lack of inner confidence.

    So none of the old religions are doing very well at the moment in their role as "cultural communities", although all the old paths can offer transcendence to the individual seeker.

    But that's because these faiths have largely lost their original core - which was transcendence - and have come to focus almost entirely on their secondary role, which was always derivative from the first - how to structure life on Earth so as to flourish and prosper.

    And that secondary role easily blends into secularism, so if that's your primary orientation, it becomes difficult to maintain your religious character.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  923. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.

    Despite the fact that caste dynamics are still present, the bulk of India has much less inter marriage. Do you have a plausible explanation, other than religion, that explains the current day phenomenon visible on the map?
     

    The group in India which is most obsessed with cousin marriage are Parsis, not Muslims: apparently cousin marriage invaded Zoroastrianism too. Parsis are like kind of Mekkans who fought Muhammad; they are (were) a community of merchants, being once very prominent in opium smuggling to China.

    Plausible explanation is a religious custom, but the PAST ONE, namely pre-Islamic.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Indus_Valley_Civilization%2C_Mature_Phase_%282600-1900_BCE%29.png


    Hindu marry their cousins too, especially in South India. In fact, anthropological real-life examples of matrilineal communities often come from South India.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-South-Indians-marry-their-cousins


    Why is this term even in use? It does not convey anything meaningful.

    Instead try Judeo-Christian.

     

    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul

    Meaning (1) excludes or obfuscates meaning (2).

    Replies: @A123, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    If you read old anthropology ethnographies it seems cousin marriage is in there often. A specific cousin. If your dad is the oldest or second oldest in your grandparents’ brood, close your eyes for thirty seconds and imagine yourself married to your old aunt’s first daughter.

    And puke maybe. For myself this is an extreme unpleasant visualization. Maybe if you have an odd sense of humor you would enjoy taunting some of your relatives with this story. : )

  924. @LatW
    @LatW

    Translation from Russian:

    Prigozhin was basically saying that the Russians must truly brace themselves and do what they did from 1941-45. The country must be locked down. Nobody should be allowed to take vacations in Turkey or France. Then after some work is done, they could ask themselves: "Where is our La Manche?" (e.g., English Channel, edge of Europe that they are planning to reach). And he believes that nobody would object if France, Italy and Bulgaria would be given to Ukraine (that is, they would split the war booty with Ukraine). He believes after all this madness Russians should share equally with Ukrainians because they will both still suffer greatly.

    This is the kind of misanthropic nonsense that the Russian population is being fed with. One could laugh if men weren't dying. I mean, Prigozhin can always fantasize about La Manche and then run back to Africa, but what of the dead sons and husbands...?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @sudden death

    imho, he has a definite function in the system to fill – Zhirinovsky, another “Russian” ultra-nationalist hawk with Jewish father, is no more alive and the place is empty. Medvedev has too intelligent and meek looks, no matter how hard he tries to compensate it with his rants on the net.

    Also just several months ago this wannabe La Manche destroyer was actively praising giving up of Kherson, so he is fully controlled at the critically defining moments, if he had a shred of real own sovereignity, would have been silent instead.

    Also Wagner group military action is not sovereign at all in principle, strategic plans, directions, commands and criticall supplies like ammo are still being given by Army, just like Waffen-SS was not truly sovereign from Wehrmacht in practice despite maybe harbouring wider deep ambitions.

    • Thanks: LatW
  925. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Was this your Ukrainian grandfather, the one who had a copy of Shevchenko's Kobzar close bye and who enjoyed reading it? I get your family chronology mixed-up, as their seems to be a northern variant in the Peter area, the South Eastern variant (the original?) where I think that Gramps was from, and then there's of course yourself, right in the middle, a Muscovite....

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian). The Polish side I was able to trace to early nineteenth century Belarus. The Ukrainian side is more exotic, there might have been Turkic roots. He spoke and was literate in Ukrainian and kept his “southern Russian” accent to the end of his life, but he didn’t see himself as that different from his Russian friends and neighbors. At that time it didn’t really matter. The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war. The Russian side is near Penza, also in Piter and Moscow, but there are distant relatives in Siberia and Murmansk area too. There are millions of people of mixed ancestry between the two countries.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    My father's side was from Chernivtsy, all Ukrainians (Ruthenians) as far as I know. Maybe they were neighbors, or even related? :-) On my mother's side it becomes a little more complicated. Although her mother was Ukrainian, I found out that her husband (my grandfather) was of Polish descent. My mother, politically a fiery Ukrainian, tried to keep this from me, apparently so that I wouldn't grow up somehow mixed-up about my Ukrainian heritage. I plan to go back to the old country once this crazy war ends, and do more research on my family roots, especially about my "Polish" grandfather, whom I never met. The kids were all baptized within the Orthodox church, so apparently grandmother was a fiery Ukrainian too. It runs in the family, I guess (there's a lot transmitted through mother's milk)? :-)

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian).

     

    One of my ancestral lines moved from Belarus to Galicia in the 1700s. It was a Greek Catholic, who married into the local Galician (Ruthenian) Greek Catholics. My aunt in Lviv still has the document from around those times that confirms their status in the local administration. They would later become Ukrainian nationalists, albeit Polonophiles who respected the positive aspects of the legacy of the PLC. The ones who stayed in Belarus became completely Polonized. One of them painted a famous portrait of Mickiewicz.

    The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war.
     
    Have you stayed in touch with them?

    ::::::::::::

    This war may finally bring to an end the failed experiment of Muscovites trying to integrate Ukraine (a natural part of the PLC world) into their Eurasian Muscovite state. They took advantage of the civil war and the treason of Khmelnytsky, who rebelled primarily against the native Rus magnates of Ukraine, to grab this territory. The results have been bad both for Ukraine and for Muscovy. Muscovy/Russia can thank this artificial union for Petrine Church reforms, and influx of Trotskys and the like into their territory. Okay, they also got Gogol but on balance it wasn't worth it. And Ukraine got brain drain, worsened serfdom, Holodomor, etc.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  926. @Coconuts
    @A123


    True. However, if you look at today (not history) only one major religion present in India is stuck in the past.
     
    Perhaps 'the past will be a future country', to quote another Ed Dutton book title. Muslims are growing part of all Western European populations, this doesn't seem likely to stop at any time soon.

    Afaik, from the HBD side cousin marriage is known to present evolutionary advantages in some circumstances, it increases resistance to certain tropical diseases, raises ethnocentrism and in group preference, lowers IQ somewhat, but this helps to maintain fertility levels.

    At one point Dr. Dutton was advocating using genealogy research sites like ancestry.com as a kind of dating site, find your third cousins and marry one of them. Apparently third cousin is supposed to be optimum for relationship longevity and fertility.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.

    If there are some evolutionary advantages for a gene, Nature itself will provide, killing those who lack it. Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface. You need to read my comment no 917. here: the example of Mormon community where one of the MOST COMMON enzymes (fumarase) became faulty speaks for itself.

    Plus, the example from “Jurassic World Dominion” speaks not just about cloning but about CLONING TOGETHER WITH REMOVING FAULTY GENES.
    This is the real Holy Grail.

    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too. It is numbers game. Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like; it is both accepting and bringing suffering for ones (humans with faulty genes) to have others without faulty genes. In this sense, cousin marriages are eugenic marriages.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    To


    Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface.
     
    I should add

    "Faulty genes are mostly recessive ones, which means they can surface only through cousin marriage or in isolated community practicing endogamy."

    Frankly, it is clearly a mine which Nature (or God) set up in order to trigger it in case of cousin marriage or too close endogamy. Such is a policy of Nature which generally avoids endogamy.

    , @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.
     
    It doesn't seem too surprising they are interested in it, but HBD is not a culturally powerful force at the moment.

    I know Michael Woodley of Menie has studied the political impact of widespread cousin marriage in the Middle East, the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies. His work and the book by Ed Dutton Ivashka cited earlier are probably the place to start for references on this.


    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too.
     
    Iirc from reading Dutton's book on Islam it is a relative advantage that has become apparent more recently. Besides religious belief, Dutton links it to IQ, because the link between fertility and IQ is quite well demonstrated.

    Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like.
     
    If thinking having two children is good and somewhere around a replacement level of TFR for a population is Nazi-like, I am Nazi-like. I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

  927. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    4Wagner started their career in Ukraine by taking out Bednov and probably Mozgovoy. Both the right wing and the left wing leaders of the pro-Russian uprising. They blamed it on the Ukrainians, but most nationalists did not buy that. Afterwards, Wagner had contracted hundreds (possibly thousands) of pro-Russian fighters to go and fight in Syria and Africa where many of them got killed. Wagner is a very interesting organization. If he has the right connections, Prigozhin might end up playing the role of the "crazy Furher" when the right time comes. He has the needed genetics and the pathological inclinations, he has the moneys. All he needs is some "metaphysical help" quite possibly he has already secured this.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @Leaves No Shadow

    Prigozhin is going nowhere. He has no power whatsoever except through Putin, which is why Putin keeps him around. He is entirely dependent. Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.

    I also note that Prigozhin, while undoubtedly cynical, is not a raving lunatic. He’ll switch colours in line with power probably before almost anyone else even realises that the layout of power has changed. Will it save him when the men of the institutions assert their power and clean out the old regime? Maybe, or maybe he’ll flee to one of those African countries that used his services and might have him? Or Iran. Or to Cuba? Or maybe Syria? I don’t know which I’d pick for my retirement were I him, as it is betting a lot on them not selling him out, and they are not exactly run by the world’s most trustworthy people.

    As for metaphysical help, I hope he gets some. It might appear demonic, but beauty, while not actually in the eye of the beholder, can often work out that way in practice. And there’s really nothing to be afraid of.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.
     
    That's not a given, Kadyrov, too, is protected by Putin. He might even be safer in Moscow than Grozny. On his own in Chechnya, it wouldn't be all that safe for him, his teip has betrayed their people, even though he does have his own army. He has tortured countless people in Chechnya and he is not that loved (to put it mildly).

    And, of course, Prigozhin will never hold a serious high level post (besides this one which is very high anyway). He has made some unseemly comments against the General Staff so may not be liked there. But eventually it will probably be the FSB who will decide these things.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  928. @A123
    @Mikhail


    World leaders and their #pets
     
    Zelensky does not have exclusive rights to the semi-sentient critter Not-The-President Biden as his pet. It is more of a "pet sharing", cash for rental service.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://iranpoliticsclub.net/politics/iran-axis/images/biden-dog-on-leash-by-iran-china-deep-state-branco-cartoon.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Hey, using political cartoons to help make a point was supposed to be my schtick! It’s okay though, this shows that you’re capable of learning…

  929. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.

    If there are some evolutionary advantages for a gene, Nature itself will provide, killing those who lack it. Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface. You need to read my comment no 917. here: the example of Mormon community where one of the MOST COMMON enzymes (fumarase) became faulty speaks for itself.

    Plus, the example from "Jurassic World Dominion" speaks not just about cloning but about CLONING TOGETHER WITH REMOVING FAULTY GENES.
    This is the real Holy Grail.

    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too. It is numbers game. Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like; it is both accepting and bringing suffering for ones (humans with faulty genes) to have others without faulty genes. In this sense, cousin marriages are eugenic marriages.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    To

    Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface.

    I should add

    “Faulty genes are mostly recessive ones, which means they can surface only through cousin marriage or in isolated community practicing endogamy.”

    Frankly, it is clearly a mine which Nature (or God) set up in order to trigger it in case of cousin marriage or too close endogamy. Such is a policy of Nature which generally avoids endogamy.

  930. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian). The Polish side I was able to trace to early nineteenth century Belarus. The Ukrainian side is more exotic, there might have been Turkic roots. He spoke and was literate in Ukrainian and kept his "southern Russian" accent to the end of his life, but he didn't see himself as that different from his Russian friends and neighbors. At that time it didn't really matter. The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war. The Russian side is near Penza, also in Piter and Moscow, but there are distant relatives in Siberia and Murmansk area too. There are millions of people of mixed ancestry between the two countries.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    My father’s side was from Chernivtsy, all Ukrainians (Ruthenians) as far as I know. Maybe they were neighbors, or even related? 🙂 On my mother’s side it becomes a little more complicated. Although her mother was Ukrainian, I found out that her husband (my grandfather) was of Polish descent. My mother, politically a fiery Ukrainian, tried to keep this from me, apparently so that I wouldn’t grow up somehow mixed-up about my Ukrainian heritage. I plan to go back to the old country once this crazy war ends, and do more research on my family roots, especially about my “Polish” grandfather, whom I never met. The kids were all baptized within the Orthodox church, so apparently grandmother was a fiery Ukrainian too. It runs in the family, I guess (there’s a lot transmitted through mother’s milk)? 🙂

  931. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I prefer not to use this terms because it has several confusing meanings:
    1) what you said: common elements of Judaism and Christianity, but somehow not of Islam
    2) pre-Paulian Jews-centred version of Christianity which opposed St Paul
     
    Is there a significant difference between Anglicanism, other forms of high church Protestantism and Reform Judaism?

    And is there an Islamic equivalent?

    Unsurprisingly, Judaism seems to sit between Islam and Christianity, with parts that look like each of them, even in their own diversities. But Islam doesn't seem to have any parts that look like what Christianity means to me.

    Perhaps someone can let me know of a part of Islam that both allows its practitioners space and isn't totally esoteric (probably to hide from the crazies)?

    I suppose you might try and make some sort of theological points, but I prefer to focus on the practice, as this is where actual meaning comes from, for the vast majority of participants.

    To me, the theology is kind of silly anyway. You can see it in the tortured rationalisations of the various arguments, and the way in which things that simply don't matter are held up as crucially important.

    E.g was Jesus "the" son of god, or an other sort of spiritual entity particularly successful at spreading a reminder to people that they might try being less self-ingorant because what they would find would be good?

    Does it matter?

    Does anyone really think that an omniscient being will punish you for misidentifying him?

    Or, unless the punishment had the practical effect of eventually helping you, does anyone really think that such a being would punish you eternally?

    Hilarious that humans would project their own tendencies towards ignorant self-punishment onto a completely non-ignorant god.

    God isn't jealous. Jealousy is a human phenomenon born of cowardice in the face of fear and the subsequent ignorance which it entails. It does not even exist in god's presence.

    I appreciate that people need to project their delusions onto other things so as to deal with them at an emotional distance, but the irony here is too much.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    You’d probably like the Sufis – they weren’t always particularly esoteric, either. And in different ages Islam was more relaxed and tolerant and less restrictive and confining, and quite attractive. I think I probably would have enjoyed living in Baghdad, Cairo, or Morocco, or perhaps Moorish Spain, during certain centuries. (The real Sufis, I don’t mean fake-Sufis like Talha – all genuine spiritual movements eventually get coopted by the mainstream and are transformed into their opposite, as we saw with AP-style Christianity.)

    Being relaxed and tolerant and open and free is a function of strength and confidence, and Islam today is battered, bruised, and lacking in confidence.

    You can’t take a culture at its lowest and call it typical. For that matter, as we increasingly see in Israel, Orthodox Jews are becoming more fundamentalist, and with that hideous new Catholic fascist movement – I forget it’s name – Christianity isn’t doing too well either. And of course, Modi’s India, and Sher Singh’s version of Sikhism (although I’m not sure he’s indicative of anything).

    These are all signs of a sense of threat from modernity and lack of inner confidence.

    So none of the old religions are doing very well at the moment in their role as “cultural communities”, although all the old paths can offer transcendence to the individual seeker.

    But that’s because these faiths have largely lost their original core – which was transcendence – and have come to focus almost entirely on their secondary role, which was always derivative from the first – how to structure life on Earth so as to flourish and prosper.

    And that secondary role easily blends into secularism, so if that’s your primary orientation, it becomes difficult to maintain your religious character.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I'm disinterested in how Islam might have been in the past and find it banal to notice that it was often different. I like Rumi's poetry, but seemingly no actual practicing Muslims share that like. It is a religion that has run its course. If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they'll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents. As people are removed from savage competition for food and shelter, they will have the space to look contemptuously on those freaks in their clear high resolution torture porn videos. Perhaps this is unfair to the Islamic spiritual tradition and even to the Jihadists who only knew what they knew, but future generations in Muslims countries will want nothing to do with it. They'll run and flee from it as soon as enough time has passed that they don't think it'll be hung around their own individual necks. Marching around the street, ullulating, with banners saying "death to infidels" and "behead the unbeliever" is behaviour that no one* will want to be associated with, and they only still do because they feel they have no choice.

    *Obviously they'll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin's sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they're impossibly marginalised. Unable to assemble in groups bigger than a small town book signing for a C-list celebrity biography.

    Replies: @A123, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @songbird

  932. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    Hmmm…. I’ll have to think about that one. It is not intuitively obvious. The groups exist largely apart, despite the compressed geography.
     
    Yes, it is not intuitive; it demands the knowledge of history. This is why a lot of false opinions are going around, and which you seem to be intent on spreading further.

    The Great Goddess cult can be found from Aegean to Decan; this also explains popularity of cousin marriages in unexpected places like Uzbekistan (Fergana Valley).


    Judeo-Christian is much better than the obfuscatory term Abrahamic, which is almost always deployed to mislead.
     
    It could be the opposite way, too. Jews themselves say that Islam is more similar to Judaism than Christianity. This is absent from a misleading term "Judeo-Christian", which opens doors to a potential conflict between Judaism & Christianity and Islam.

    "Abrahamic" I find pretty good - it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist. As such, it is not antagonizing in the way Judeo-Christian is. Since 'Abrahamic" refers to the beginning it does not imposes too-high level of unity too; on the other hand, "Judeo-Christian" is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is "Judaic".

    Replies: @A123

    “Abrahamic” I find pretty good – it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist.

    Here is any easy question to prove the point that “continuity” has always been more fiction than fact.

    What were the top two religions attacked by Muhammad’s Colonial Jihad ~600 AD?

    It is not hard to figure out that the answer is Christians and Jews. The spread of the settler religion of Islam and its establishment of Muslim colonies in Palestine was a tragedy to the indigenous religions of Christianity and Judaism.

    Enmity between Christianity and Islam stretches out over centuries as the Crusades liberated the Holy Lands, which were then subsequently lost (again).

    In modern practice, Judaism and Islam have fully diverged. At this point the overlap is largely; Superficial, such as place names, or; Coincidental, both ban pork. Any historical “continuity” that existed ended in blood when Muslims started bombing defenseless Jewish children for daring to live the religious homeland of Judaism.

    Jews and Christians are threatened by the same foreign foe. Judeo-Christian unity is an admixture of faith and survival. That is a strong bond.

    “Judeo-Christian” is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is “Judaic”.

    ROTFL — Are you kidding????? Try to be serious. Every Christian grasps:

    • Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.

    The really important rules, such as the Ten Commandments hold across both Jews and Christians.

    OK. If Christians go into woke churches, or attempt to listen to Pope Muhammad Francis, they may be confused about “Judaic”. However, they will also be confused about how “Christian” Christianity is supposed to be. That is not a counter to the obvious structural, biblical overlap that underpins the unity of Judeo-Christian values.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123


    Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.
     
    That misses the point that they are anti-Semitic accents in New Testament (eg. Galatians 2:12). Paul did not like Jews in his Church; his Christianity wasn't to be Jewish.

    Anyway, go to the street and asks Christians whether (1) New Covenant completely replaced The Old Covenant, or (2) both still exists, with the exception that the Messianic promises was fulfilled through Jesus the Jewish King, yet other promises of God to Jews are still valid.

    Most will not know.

    In fact, they are different opinion on this. Supporting the State of Israel obviously means (2).

    BTW, there was no settlers religion or Musilm colonies in Palestine. Just Christians converted to pay fewer taxes - so much they loved their Byzantine Christianity which they were still allowed to practice for a price of tax. Early Muslims were not exterminators like Mongols.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    The term Judeo-Christian was coined and promoted by New York Jew intellectuals.

    Strike it from your vocabulary and you can attenuate your Ignoramus Quotient by a small amount. In your case every little bit helps. : )

    Replies: @A123

  933. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    “Abrahamic” I find pretty good – it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist.
     
    Here is any easy question to prove the point that "continuity" has always been more fiction than fact.

    What were the top two religions attacked by Muhammad's Colonial Jihad ~600 AD?

    It is not hard to figure out that the answer is Christians and Jews. The spread of the settler religion of Islam and its establishment of Muslim colonies in Palestine was a tragedy to the indigenous religions of Christianity and Judaism.

    Enmity between Christianity and Islam stretches out over centuries as the Crusades liberated the Holy Lands, which were then subsequently lost (again).

    In modern practice, Judaism and Islam have fully diverged. At this point the overlap is largely; Superficial, such as place names, or; Coincidental, both ban pork. Any historical "continuity" that existed ended in blood when Muslims started bombing defenseless Jewish children for daring to live the religious homeland of Judaism.

    Jews and Christians are threatened by the same foreign foe. Judeo-Christian unity is an admixture of faith and survival. That is a strong bond.


    “Judeo-Christian” is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is “Judaic”.
     
    ROTFL -- Are you kidding????? Try to be serious. Every Christian grasps:

    • Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.

    The really important rules, such as the Ten Commandments hold across both Jews and Christians.

    OK. If Christians go into woke churches, or attempt to listen to Pope Muhammad Francis, they may be confused about "Judaic". However, they will also be confused about how "Christian" Christianity is supposed to be. That is not a counter to the obvious structural, biblical overlap that underpins the unity of Judeo-Christian values.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.

    That misses the point that they are anti-Semitic accents in New Testament (eg. Galatians 2:12). Paul did not like Jews in his Church; his Christianity wasn’t to be Jewish.

    Anyway, go to the street and asks Christians whether (1) New Covenant completely replaced The Old Covenant, or (2) both still exists, with the exception that the Messianic promises was fulfilled through Jesus the Jewish King, yet other promises of God to Jews are still valid.

    Most will not know.

    In fact, they are different opinion on this. Supporting the State of Israel obviously means (2).

    BTW, there was no settlers religion or Musilm colonies in Palestine. Just Christians converted to pay fewer taxes – so much they loved their Byzantine Christianity which they were still allowed to practice for a price of tax. Early Muslims were not exterminators like Mongols.

  934. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    “Abrahamic” I find pretty good – it conveys the continuity from Judaism and Islam, which certainly does exist.
     
    Here is any easy question to prove the point that "continuity" has always been more fiction than fact.

    What were the top two religions attacked by Muhammad's Colonial Jihad ~600 AD?

    It is not hard to figure out that the answer is Christians and Jews. The spread of the settler religion of Islam and its establishment of Muslim colonies in Palestine was a tragedy to the indigenous religions of Christianity and Judaism.

    Enmity between Christianity and Islam stretches out over centuries as the Crusades liberated the Holy Lands, which were then subsequently lost (again).

    In modern practice, Judaism and Islam have fully diverged. At this point the overlap is largely; Superficial, such as place names, or; Coincidental, both ban pork. Any historical "continuity" that existed ended in blood when Muslims started bombing defenseless Jewish children for daring to live the religious homeland of Judaism.

    Jews and Christians are threatened by the same foreign foe. Judeo-Christian unity is an admixture of faith and survival. That is a strong bond.


    “Judeo-Christian” is confusing for many Christians, as they are unsure as to what extent Christianity is “Judaic”.
     
    ROTFL -- Are you kidding????? Try to be serious. Every Christian grasps:

    • Much of the Old Testament is shared.
    • Little or none of the New Testament crosses over.

    The really important rules, such as the Ten Commandments hold across both Jews and Christians.

    OK. If Christians go into woke churches, or attempt to listen to Pope Muhammad Francis, they may be confused about "Judaic". However, they will also be confused about how "Christian" Christianity is supposed to be. That is not a counter to the obvious structural, biblical overlap that underpins the unity of Judeo-Christian values.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    The term Judeo-Christian was coined and promoted by New York Jew intellectuals.

    Strike it from your vocabulary and you can attenuate your Ignoramus Quotient by a small amount. In your case every little bit helps. : )

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Iffen, is that you posting on Emil's account?

    It sounds like one of your low-IQ Yahoo #NeverTrump rants.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  935. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You'd probably like the Sufis - they weren't always particularly esoteric, either. And in different ages Islam was more relaxed and tolerant and less restrictive and confining, and quite attractive. I think I probably would have enjoyed living in Baghdad, Cairo, or Morocco, or perhaps Moorish Spain, during certain centuries. (The real Sufis, I don't mean fake-Sufis like Talha - all genuine spiritual movements eventually get coopted by the mainstream and are transformed into their opposite, as we saw with AP-style Christianity.)

    Being relaxed and tolerant and open and free is a function of strength and confidence, and Islam today is battered, bruised, and lacking in confidence.

    You can't take a culture at its lowest and call it typical. For that matter, as we increasingly see in Israel, Orthodox Jews are becoming more fundamentalist, and with that hideous new Catholic fascist movement - I forget it's name - Christianity isn't doing too well either. And of course, Modi's India, and Sher Singh's version of Sikhism (although I'm not sure he's indicative of anything).

    These are all signs of a sense of threat from modernity and lack of inner confidence.

    So none of the old religions are doing very well at the moment in their role as "cultural communities", although all the old paths can offer transcendence to the individual seeker.

    But that's because these faiths have largely lost their original core - which was transcendence - and have come to focus almost entirely on their secondary role, which was always derivative from the first - how to structure life on Earth so as to flourish and prosper.

    And that secondary role easily blends into secularism, so if that's your primary orientation, it becomes difficult to maintain your religious character.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I’m disinterested in how Islam might have been in the past and find it banal to notice that it was often different. I like Rumi’s poetry, but seemingly no actual practicing Muslims share that like. It is a religion that has run its course. If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they’ll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents. As people are removed from savage competition for food and shelter, they will have the space to look contemptuously on those freaks in their clear high resolution torture porn videos. Perhaps this is unfair to the Islamic spiritual tradition and even to the Jihadists who only knew what they knew, but future generations in Muslims countries will want nothing to do with it. They’ll run and flee from it as soon as enough time has passed that they don’t think it’ll be hung around their own individual necks. Marching around the street, ullulating, with banners saying “death to infidels” and “behead the unbeliever” is behaviour that no one* will want to be associated with, and they only still do because they feel they have no choice.

    *Obviously they’ll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin’s sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they’re impossibly marginalised. Unable to assemble in groups bigger than a small town book signing for a C-list celebrity biography.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow


    If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they’ll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents.
     
    You forgot to mention color video of Islamic sexual predators after underage Infidel girls. [MORE] (1)

    The protest was sparked by a video posted this week by a 15-year-old British girl. She says it captures a self-proclaimed 25-year-old migrant propositioning her -- and persisting even after she tells him she's ten years younger.

    When the girl says, "I'm only 15," the migrant replies, "Okay, good."

    "That's not good," says the girl. "You don't do this in this country...you go to jail if you do this."
     

    Videos circulating on social media show what appears to be hundreds of protestors who turned out to vent their anger over the mass influx of migrants, some of whom have little respect for Western morals.

    Protestors set a police van ablaze, and accused authorities of protecting "nonces" -- UK slang for pedophiles.
     
    This type of deviancy is inherently Islamic. Remember the Rotherham Grooming Gang from a few years ago. Lest you believe that this is driven by "Westernization" look at the instance of paedophile sexual assaults at arrival centers. (2)

    Children as young as seven 'sexually assaulted' in Greek refugee camps

    'She came back with marks on her arms and neck. Later the girl described how she was sexually abused. It has scarred a seven-year-old child for life'

    One volunteer serving at the Softex camp in Greece told The Observer young girls are being groomed by male gangs. He said on one occasion an Iraqi family had been moved to emergency accommodation following a sexual assault on their 7-year-old daughter.

     

    In May, it was alleged a cleaner at a Turkish refugee camp had raped up to 30 boys, as young as 8-years-old. It was alleged he raped the boys in camp toilets and paid them 35p. Many of their parents said they were too afraid to speak out. After multiple alleged attacks over the course of three months, he was later arrested by local authorities.
     
    If it is commonly happening in Turkey before the Jihadists reach Europe, it cannot be a western problem. IslamoGloboHomo is a Muhammad problem.
    ___

    Europe is waking up to the problem of SJW Islam, but it is rather late. Had it been handled earlier it could have been dealt with more gracefully. Today is so bad, full fledged repatriation and de-Islamification will be required.

    Italy, Ireland, and possibly the UK have sufficient will once the masses begin moving against the Islamophile anti-Christian Elites. France has an extraordinary problem, but could still pull something off. Germany and Sweden might be hopeless.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/fiery-uk-anti-refugee-protest-after-minor-girl-records-adult-migrants-proposition

    (2) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-child-refugees-sexual-assault-greece-softex-camp-a7189811.html



    https://twitter.com/GN1916_/status/1624171753625817090?s=20

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I'm not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded - it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation. It can reconnect with and emphasize the best parts of it's old tradition even as it doesn't just remain static but develops in new ways - a healthier, more self-confident Islam can even once again learn from other religions.

    The idea that it will be entirely discarded is rather drastic.

    Indeed, I don't think Islam is alone in this - all religions seem to have run their course and to be in some kind of need of reimagining, and to indeed learn from ALL the religions. APs "Christianity" - which is basically just secular humanism, technology, and capitalism - is too indistinguishable from the mainstream to survive as an independent culture.

    I'm not necessarily addressing this to you Laxa but just musing at large for a moment, it's an interesting question what the future of religion is. Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system, and the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the "human problem" - the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.

    However, the old religions seem to no longer function as vehicles for their core truths except for a small number of people able to still extract the ancient message at great personal effort - and even daring and boldness - and consequently their role as "cultural communities" comes to the fore - but this only appeals to a diminishing number of people as the secular mainstream offers similar - perhaps even more attractive - purely practical arrangements to live life.

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what's best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways - after all, who says religion is a "finished" product? Only what is dead, stops developing.

    Anyways, Laxa, I know you're fully committed to the modern paradigm and likely think religion ought to - and will - be superseded as a relic of mankind's primitive past, an opinion you're certainly entitled to, so these remarks are probably not best addressed to you.

    But it's an interesting question I have to think more about....

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Obviously they’ll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin’s sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they’re impossibly marginalised.
     
    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.
     
    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  936. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I'm disinterested in how Islam might have been in the past and find it banal to notice that it was often different. I like Rumi's poetry, but seemingly no actual practicing Muslims share that like. It is a religion that has run its course. If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they'll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents. As people are removed from savage competition for food and shelter, they will have the space to look contemptuously on those freaks in their clear high resolution torture porn videos. Perhaps this is unfair to the Islamic spiritual tradition and even to the Jihadists who only knew what they knew, but future generations in Muslims countries will want nothing to do with it. They'll run and flee from it as soon as enough time has passed that they don't think it'll be hung around their own individual necks. Marching around the street, ullulating, with banners saying "death to infidels" and "behead the unbeliever" is behaviour that no one* will want to be associated with, and they only still do because they feel they have no choice.

    *Obviously they'll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin's sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they're impossibly marginalised. Unable to assemble in groups bigger than a small town book signing for a C-list celebrity biography.

    Replies: @A123, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @songbird

    If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they’ll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents.

    You forgot to mention color video of Islamic sexual predators after underage Infidel girls. [MORE] (1)

    The protest was sparked by a video posted this week by a 15-year-old British girl. She says it captures a self-proclaimed 25-year-old migrant propositioning her — and persisting even after she tells him she’s ten years younger.

    When the girl says, “I’m only 15,” the migrant replies, “Okay, good.”

    “That’s not good,” says the girl. “You don’t do this in this country…you go to jail if you do this.”

    Videos circulating on social media show what appears to be hundreds of protestors who turned out to vent their anger over the mass influx of migrants, some of whom have little respect for Western morals.

    Protestors set a police van ablaze, and accused authorities of protecting “nonces” — UK slang for pedophiles.

    This type of deviancy is inherently Islamic. Remember the Rotherham Grooming Gang from a few years ago. Lest you believe that this is driven by “Westernization” look at the instance of paedophile sexual assaults at arrival centers. (2)

    Children as young as seven ‘sexually assaulted’ in Greek refugee camps

    ‘She came back with marks on her arms and neck. Later the girl described how she was sexually abused. It has scarred a seven-year-old child for life’

    One volunteer serving at the Softex camp in Greece told The Observer young girls are being groomed by male gangs. He said on one occasion an Iraqi family had been moved to emergency accommodation following a sexual assault on their 7-year-old daughter.

    In May, it was alleged a cleaner at a Turkish refugee camp had raped up to 30 boys, as young as 8-years-old. It was alleged he raped the boys in camp toilets and paid them 35p. Many of their parents said they were too afraid to speak out. After multiple alleged attacks over the course of three months, he was later arrested by local authorities.

    If it is commonly happening in Turkey before the Jihadists reach Europe, it cannot be a western problem. IslamoGloboHomo is a Muhammad problem.
    ___

    Europe is waking up to the problem of SJW Islam, but it is rather late. Had it been handled earlier it could have been dealt with more gracefully. Today is so bad, full fledged repatriation and de-Islamification will be required.

    Italy, Ireland, and possibly the UK have sufficient will once the masses begin moving against the Islamophile anti-Christian Elites. France has an extraordinary problem, but could still pull something off. Germany and Sweden might be hopeless.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/fiery-uk-anti-refugee-protest-after-minor-girl-records-adult-migrants-proposition

    (2) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-child-refugees-sexual-assault-greece-softex-camp-a7189811.html

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @A123

    Islam is ngmi. There's no conspiracy, just death throes and a general misunderstanding of those death throes.

    People chimping out over the burning of a book on the other side of the world are only not seen as pathetic in the moment, when fear and shock distracts the viewer.

    The same for those who proudly burn people.

    The problem with a lot of Muslims in Europe is that their relative lack of accomplishment and, often, intelligence*, leaves them feeling humbled. And their lack of spiritual development leaves them reacting to their humbling with resentment and egotistical deceptions.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.

    That's a straightforward result of my interplaying preferences for cultured and intelligent people and Europeans. The former elitist and the latter racist, by some definitions, though without hatred. And not that either comes close to my appreciation for an individual. Just factors and preferences when aggregating at the level of millions or tens of millions.



    https://twitter.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1624747361154080768?t=DJqSObCsGyDW7Uz728RfCw&s=19

    Replies: @A123

  937. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I'm disinterested in how Islam might have been in the past and find it banal to notice that it was often different. I like Rumi's poetry, but seemingly no actual practicing Muslims share that like. It is a religion that has run its course. If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they'll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents. As people are removed from savage competition for food and shelter, they will have the space to look contemptuously on those freaks in their clear high resolution torture porn videos. Perhaps this is unfair to the Islamic spiritual tradition and even to the Jihadists who only knew what they knew, but future generations in Muslims countries will want nothing to do with it. They'll run and flee from it as soon as enough time has passed that they don't think it'll be hung around their own individual necks. Marching around the street, ullulating, with banners saying "death to infidels" and "behead the unbeliever" is behaviour that no one* will want to be associated with, and they only still do because they feel they have no choice.

    *Obviously they'll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin's sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they're impossibly marginalised. Unable to assemble in groups bigger than a small town book signing for a C-list celebrity biography.

    Replies: @A123, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @songbird

    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I’m not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded – it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation. It can reconnect with and emphasize the best parts of it’s old tradition even as it doesn’t just remain static but develops in new ways – a healthier, more self-confident Islam can even once again learn from other religions.

    The idea that it will be entirely discarded is rather drastic.

    Indeed, I don’t think Islam is alone in this – all religions seem to have run their course and to be in some kind of need of reimagining, and to indeed learn from ALL the religions. APs “Christianity” – which is basically just secular humanism, technology, and capitalism – is too indistinguishable from the mainstream to survive as an independent culture.

    I’m not necessarily addressing this to you Laxa but just musing at large for a moment, it’s an interesting question what the future of religion is. Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system, and the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the “human problem” – the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.

    However, the old religions seem to no longer function as vehicles for their core truths except for a small number of people able to still extract the ancient message at great personal effort – and even daring and boldness – and consequently their role as “cultural communities” comes to the fore – but this only appeals to a diminishing number of people as the secular mainstream offers similar – perhaps even more attractive – purely practical arrangements to live life.

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what’s best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways – after all, who says religion is a “finished” product? Only what is dead, stops developing.

    Anyways, Laxa, I know you’re fully committed to the modern paradigm and likely think religion ought to – and will – be superseded as a relic of mankind’s primitive past, an opinion you’re certainly entitled to, so these remarks are probably not best addressed to you.

    But it’s an interesting question I have to think more about….

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I’m not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded – it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation.
     
    Anything can happen. And I would be perfectly content with this happening, but, I think, the full colour evidence of the barbarity will be too persuasive in favour of junking everything associated with it.

    Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system
     
    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well. People may want more, but they'll have to do some hard individual work on top of that. Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.

    the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the “human problem” – the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.
     
    Everything contains that. Even you!

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what’s best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways – after all, who says religion is a “finished” product?
     
    I'm not saying that such spiritual neuroticism and hiding from the rest of life doesn't have value for particular people in particular times and places, but it is not going to be more than a transitory process for a minority of individuals.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  938. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    The term Judeo-Christian was coined and promoted by New York Jew intellectuals.

    Strike it from your vocabulary and you can attenuate your Ignoramus Quotient by a small amount. In your case every little bit helps. : )

    Replies: @A123

    Iffen, is that you posting on Emil’s account?

    It sounds like one of your low-IQ Yahoo #NeverTrump rants.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    My impression is Christians are viewed as the descendants of apostate Jews. This is a big deal with some orthodox Jews, but is mostly irrelevant to the majority of Jews who are now secularized or non-observant.

    However, the bifurcation of Christianity from Judaism is still a crucial issue to some. This is the main reason the term Judeo-Christian is misleading, even though it may be strictly accurate to lump the religions together due to shared Old Testament history and mythology.

    Having said that, I know little about this beyond what I have learned here at Unz! If your hair just caught fire, please go straight to the shower-->

  939. @Beckow
    @216


    ...far healthier if Russia abandoned its delusion of being a Great Power and once again oppressing those pesky Bloodlanders; and instead sought to join the EU and NATO
     
    Russia sought to join EU and Nato and was flatly rejected. Then Russia sought a stable 'partnership' with agreed on rules and mutual security and was told to take a hike - arms, bases and eventually missiles were going to Ukraine. By 2021 Russia two choices:
    - sit back and wait for the Nato process to complete on a long Ukie border close to central Russia and with pumped up Ukies threatening anything Russian ("kill Moskali")
    - take a military action to prevent it.

    A war is never healthy and Russia could have waited. They chose not to. But the whole "Great Power" is a nonsensical distraction. Russia is a Power as is US, China, France, UK...those powers wouldn't allow a danger of this magnitude on their borders and neither would Russia. The only 'delusion' is in your mind for not seeing them as equal. The war will determine if they are, that's the way it has always been.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @216

    France and the UK are not Great Powers, the EU collectively is a Great Power.

    Russia is the least of the Great Powers, and should it lose this war, their Great Power status will be permanently revoked.

    Great Powers also have “soft power” and Russia is by far the worst at it. It cannot convince otherwise social conservative East Europeans that it is anything but bloodthirsty. Their unofficial propaganda insists on screaming at how racist Westerners are, and its Latin American division is promoting troons.

  940. @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow


    If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they’ll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents.
     
    You forgot to mention color video of Islamic sexual predators after underage Infidel girls. [MORE] (1)

    The protest was sparked by a video posted this week by a 15-year-old British girl. She says it captures a self-proclaimed 25-year-old migrant propositioning her -- and persisting even after she tells him she's ten years younger.

    When the girl says, "I'm only 15," the migrant replies, "Okay, good."

    "That's not good," says the girl. "You don't do this in this country...you go to jail if you do this."
     

    Videos circulating on social media show what appears to be hundreds of protestors who turned out to vent their anger over the mass influx of migrants, some of whom have little respect for Western morals.

    Protestors set a police van ablaze, and accused authorities of protecting "nonces" -- UK slang for pedophiles.
     
    This type of deviancy is inherently Islamic. Remember the Rotherham Grooming Gang from a few years ago. Lest you believe that this is driven by "Westernization" look at the instance of paedophile sexual assaults at arrival centers. (2)

    Children as young as seven 'sexually assaulted' in Greek refugee camps

    'She came back with marks on her arms and neck. Later the girl described how she was sexually abused. It has scarred a seven-year-old child for life'

    One volunteer serving at the Softex camp in Greece told The Observer young girls are being groomed by male gangs. He said on one occasion an Iraqi family had been moved to emergency accommodation following a sexual assault on their 7-year-old daughter.

     

    In May, it was alleged a cleaner at a Turkish refugee camp had raped up to 30 boys, as young as 8-years-old. It was alleged he raped the boys in camp toilets and paid them 35p. Many of their parents said they were too afraid to speak out. After multiple alleged attacks over the course of three months, he was later arrested by local authorities.
     
    If it is commonly happening in Turkey before the Jihadists reach Europe, it cannot be a western problem. IslamoGloboHomo is a Muhammad problem.
    ___

    Europe is waking up to the problem of SJW Islam, but it is rather late. Had it been handled earlier it could have been dealt with more gracefully. Today is so bad, full fledged repatriation and de-Islamification will be required.

    Italy, Ireland, and possibly the UK have sufficient will once the masses begin moving against the Islamophile anti-Christian Elites. France has an extraordinary problem, but could still pull something off. Germany and Sweden might be hopeless.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/fiery-uk-anti-refugee-protest-after-minor-girl-records-adult-migrants-proposition

    (2) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-child-refugees-sexual-assault-greece-softex-camp-a7189811.html



    https://twitter.com/GN1916_/status/1624171753625817090?s=20

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Islam is ngmi. There’s no conspiracy, just death throes and a general misunderstanding of those death throes.

    People chimping out over the burning of a book on the other side of the world are only not seen as pathetic in the moment, when fear and shock distracts the viewer.

    The same for those who proudly burn people.

    The problem with a lot of Muslims in Europe is that their relative lack of accomplishment and, often, intelligence*, leaves them feeling humbled. And their lack of spiritual development leaves them reacting to their humbling with resentment and egotistical deceptions.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.

    That’s a straightforward result of my interplaying preferences for cultured and intelligent people and Europeans. The former elitist and the latter racist, by some definitions, though without hatred. And not that either comes close to my appreciation for an individual. Just factors and preferences when aggregating at the level of millions or tens of millions.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.
     
    The best & brightest would likely be the most secular. Devotion to home land culture would be more material such as cuisine and art. This also implies much lower numbers so their children would wind up well integrated to local culture. However, even this is not 100%. Now that we are in the internet age, online radicalization is a serious threat. The Pulse Nightclub mass murderer was 2nd generation.

    Accepting excessive numbers of the least capable is clearly a disastrous mistake. In the short term, the only way to protect infidel children is exclusion of sexual predatory Islam. If Rape-ugees need to be protected somewhere within Africa, that can be done. However, letting significant quantities into Europe is a non-starter.

    Can Muslims change and become something that does not express current Islamic behaviour? I am dubious.

    PEACE 😇
  941. @Beckow
    @AP

    Let just agree to disagree. You simply spout Ukie feel-good slogans, some of them outright lies, some just meaningless flights of fancy. Not a serious stuff.

    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato, that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training, joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov) - all of it was being put in place. Like an idiot you choose to ignore it - or worse, like a desperate propagandist caught lying.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato - if you pretend that is not the case you are like an ostrich. It is impossible to have a rational discussion w someone who consistently denies the obvious. Try a bit of critical thinking, it may enlighten you.


    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population
     
    What? How small exactly are you planning for this "free Ukieland" to be? I am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people? Or less? I don't think you realize that you are de facto dreaming of destruction of Ukraine as a viable, large nation - in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people. And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much...pathetic.

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe - a destruction of a nation. These quasi-Nazi dreams you have are sick. It goes well with you mono-lingual ethnic-cleansing idiocy. Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or "transition").

    Replies: @216, @AP

    Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or “transition”).

    US Whites, particularly Redstanis, outscore Russians on matters of TFR, divorce rates, church attendance, alcoholism. Russians outscore Redstanis on obesity, but that’s because Russian agriculture is far less efficient than US Agriculture.

    Poles are also outscoring Russians on these social indicators, and Poland has a far more restrictive abortion law that Russia should copy.

    • Agree: AP
  942. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I'm not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded - it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation. It can reconnect with and emphasize the best parts of it's old tradition even as it doesn't just remain static but develops in new ways - a healthier, more self-confident Islam can even once again learn from other religions.

    The idea that it will be entirely discarded is rather drastic.

    Indeed, I don't think Islam is alone in this - all religions seem to have run their course and to be in some kind of need of reimagining, and to indeed learn from ALL the religions. APs "Christianity" - which is basically just secular humanism, technology, and capitalism - is too indistinguishable from the mainstream to survive as an independent culture.

    I'm not necessarily addressing this to you Laxa but just musing at large for a moment, it's an interesting question what the future of religion is. Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system, and the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the "human problem" - the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.

    However, the old religions seem to no longer function as vehicles for their core truths except for a small number of people able to still extract the ancient message at great personal effort - and even daring and boldness - and consequently their role as "cultural communities" comes to the fore - but this only appeals to a diminishing number of people as the secular mainstream offers similar - perhaps even more attractive - purely practical arrangements to live life.

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what's best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways - after all, who says religion is a "finished" product? Only what is dead, stops developing.

    Anyways, Laxa, I know you're fully committed to the modern paradigm and likely think religion ought to - and will - be superseded as a relic of mankind's primitive past, an opinion you're certainly entitled to, so these remarks are probably not best addressed to you.

    But it's an interesting question I have to think more about....

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I’m not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded – it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation.

    Anything can happen. And I would be perfectly content with this happening, but, I think, the full colour evidence of the barbarity will be too persuasive in favour of junking everything associated with it.

    Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system

    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well. People may want more, but they’ll have to do some hard individual work on top of that. Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.

    the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the “human problem” – the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.

    Everything contains that. Even you!

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what’s best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways – after all, who says religion is a “finished” product?

    I’m not saying that such spiritual neuroticism and hiding from the rest of life doesn’t have value for particular people in particular times and places, but it is not going to be more than a transitory process for a minority of individuals.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well.
     
    I'm happy to hear you say this :) For some time, they had been seen as Gods. As salvation - especially technology. Some people still see them this way.

    I do hope the more limited function you ascribe to them is the emerging sensibility of the coming age. In that limited role, I'd be happy to grant them legitimacy in any economy of life - with some modifications and limitations, of course.

    In that book by Rambachan I'm reading, he discusses traditional Hindu notions of the purpose of life - apparently, the pursuit of wealth, power, fame, and pleasure were considered perfectly legitimate provided they were done morally and ethically, in traditional Hindu society (in stark contrast to Christianity, which considered wealth to be a serious spiritual impediment).

    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man's existential pain and sorrow - what the Buddhists call "dukkha". No amount of finite gains can satisfy man's ache for the infinite.

    For that, one turns to religion.

    People may want more, but they’ll have to do some hard individual work on top of that.
     
    People need more. And yes, much individual hard work must be done in this area.

    Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.
     
    This is, unfortunately, the perpetual temptation that must be fought. This website, and it's owner, may be regarded as a haven for people who have not been able to resist this temptation.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  943. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Below a cautionary tale about cousin marriages from hard-core Mormons, which also makes us aware what is the holy Grail of cousin marriage: A CLONE. But those hard-core Mormons created a society which essentially is just a breeding farm form genetic purity, with a negative general social net effect of "discarding" unnecessary men. It makes us aware that no cousins (here perhaps not so coincidentally all marriage prospects are cousins) means no marriage in a closed community. So you see that it is pretty smart - from the angle of sustained cousin marriage of course - that Islam does not really enforce polygamy, which is much less common than cousin marriage.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170726-the-polygamous-town-facing-genetic-disaster

    “We are to gird up our loins and fulfil this, just as we would any other duty…” said Brigham Young, who led the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), or Mormons, back in the mid-19th Century. It was a sweltering summer’s day in Provo City, Utah and as he spoke, high winds swirled dust around him.
    The holy task Young was speaking of was, of course, polygyny, where one man takes many wives (also known by the gender neutral term polygamy). He was a passionate believer in the practice, which he announced as the official line of the church a few years earlier. Now he was set to work reassuring his flock that marrying multiple women was the right thing to do.
    He liked to lead by example. Though Young began his adult life as a devoted spouse to a single wife, by the time he died his family had swelled to 55 wives and 59 children.
    (...)
    In the end, the link to fumarase deficiency is a numbers game. Take Brigham Young. In all, his children begat 204 grandchildren, who, in turn, begat 745 great-grandchildren. By 1982, it was reported that he had at least 5,000 direct descendants.
    This sudden explosion is down to exponential growth. Even with just one wife and three children, if every subsequent generation follows suit a man can have 243 descendants after just five generations. In polygynous families this is supercharged. If every generation includes three wives and 30 children, a man can – theoretically – flood a community with over 24 million of his descendants in the space of five generations, or little over 100 years.
    (...)
    In isolated communities, the problem is compounded by basic arithmetic: if some men take multiple wives, others can’t have any. In the FLDS, a large proportion of men must be kicked out as teenagers, shrinking the gene pool even further.
    “They are driven to the highway by their mothers in the middle of the night and dumped by the side of the road,” says Amos Guiora, a legal expert at the University of Utah who has written a book about religious extremism. Some estimate that there may be up to a thousand so-called “lost boys”. “Often they spend years trying to repent, hoping to get back into the religion,” says Bistline, who has three brothers who were discarded. "


    Also, due to the low number of initial Mormons and insistence on marrying other Mormons, cousin marriage seems to be widespread among Mormons. Apparently they do not import their converts into Utah too, despite the fact that that could help resolve the problem of cousin marriage, which apparently isn't really a problem but maybe a desired effect.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/hn5fm4/is_incest_common_in_the_church/

    Not sure that incest is the right word... consanguineous marriage is probably a more accurate descriptor. Especially in the early church, there was a lot of that going on. Martin Harris was married to his first cousin (before joining). Joseph F Smith married his first cousin. Those of us in Utah with pioneer ancestry can pretty much bet that we’re all related within a few or more generations. Polygamy no doubt helped establish dominant lineages and those have been interwoven many times.
     

    And well, cloning (of women, of course) is quite popular topic nowadays, being even one of the main themes of the last Jurassic Park movie. The scrip writers must have read on Dragon bloodlines or something.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_World_Dominion

    Wu meets Maisie and explains that his former colleague, Dr. Charlotte Lockwood (Benjamin Lockwood's deceased daughter), used her own DNA to replicate and give birth to the genetically identical Maisie. Charlotte altered Maisie's DNA to prevent her from inheriting the fatal disease which she had.

    Replies: @Mikel

    I’ve been living among Mormons for quite a long time so let me offer some corrections to what you wrote:

    – Mormons did import converts to Utah since the very beginning. Shortly after the settlement of the initial pioneers with New England and Midwestern roots, large contingents of converts from the British Islands, Scandinavia, Germany and elsewhere came to Utah. The process never stopped. A visible contingent of Pacific Islander converts has been living in Utah for generations and Latino Mormons in Utah, another group with old roots, keep increasing their numbers.

    – Calling Fundamentalist Mormons ‘hard-core’ is misleading. It’s a bit like calling Orthodox Christians “hard-core Christians”. They retained customs and tenets of the religion as it was practiced originally but have very little in common with Mainstream Mormonism, apart from their common origin. In fact, FLDS members are excommunicated and forbidden from entering Mormon temples, which even myself (an atheist) have often been invited to do. In Utah nobody would understand the expression ‘hard-core Mormons’ to refer to the fringe FLDS groups. In Mormonism, as in every religion, you have the observant, the very observant, the lukewarmers, the “cultural Mormons” who don’t believe but go along with the customs and a very vocal group of ex-Mormons who hate their former religion with a passion, not dissimilar to what happens in all other faiths.

    – The small community of FLDS on the border with Arizona is famous for the genetic aberrations caused by generations of in-group relationships but this has little to do with the population of Utah at large. Utah has some of the best longevity and health metrics in the US and I very much doubt that people in Utah are more inbred than in many other rural communities all across the US. In fact, I would say that Utahns in general look better than most other Americans, although this is of course a subjective opinion and to some extent it may have to do with the fact that Utahns, to a larger extent than most other Americans, descend from Northwestern Europeans, the old “Aryan” archetype.

    – Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah. The scenarios of exponential growth of descendants of a few founder members didn’t have the time to materialize.

    Mormonism is a weird religion, perhaps more obviously fake than the longer established ones (at least if your tolerance for irrationality is not very low), and it seems to be tempting to jump to easy conclusions based on a cursory, mostly web-based knowledge of Mormons but in real life Mormons are quite ordinary people, decent, generally welcoming, a bit naive but capable of creating extremely functional communities. Btw, Utah is a leading center of genetic studies. Medical professionals in Utah, very often Mormons, are sure to be aware of the genetic consequences that the settlement patterns of the state may or may not not have caused as much as anyone else.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel

    Mormonism is pretty young, it hasn't yet reached even 200 years, so it is hard to judge the genetic impact of endogamy within broader community like Salt Lake City or Utah. But if Mormons are so keen on genetics as you say, they surely are aware of the dangers they kinship patterns potentially create for them. Abolishing polygamy in their endogamic community is surely a step in the right direction.

    BTW, out of curiosity, did Mormons try to convert you, and if so, how many times...?

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Yahya
    @Mikel


    – Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah.
     
    That’s not true. Mormons still practice polygamy to this day. Old men and their cousins marry 50 teenage wives each. I know this from the internet.
  944. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I'm disinterested in how Islam might have been in the past and find it banal to notice that it was often different. I like Rumi's poetry, but seemingly no actual practicing Muslims share that like. It is a religion that has run its course. If people find the way Christianity is castigated for past crimes shaking, just imagine how they'll be effected by colour videos of Muslim fanatics burning gays, enslaving women and beheading innocents. As people are removed from savage competition for food and shelter, they will have the space to look contemptuously on those freaks in their clear high resolution torture porn videos. Perhaps this is unfair to the Islamic spiritual tradition and even to the Jihadists who only knew what they knew, but future generations in Muslims countries will want nothing to do with it. They'll run and flee from it as soon as enough time has passed that they don't think it'll be hung around their own individual necks. Marching around the street, ullulating, with banners saying "death to infidels" and "behead the unbeliever" is behaviour that no one* will want to be associated with, and they only still do because they feel they have no choice.

    *Obviously they'll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin's sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they're impossibly marginalised. Unable to assemble in groups bigger than a small town book signing for a C-list celebrity biography.

    Replies: @A123, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @songbird

    Obviously they’ll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin’s sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they’re impossibly marginalised.

    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.

    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?

    • Troll: Yahya
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.
     
    I said "followers", not readers.

    And subscribers to the NYT and WaPo tend to be socially well-adjusted, rather than sociopaths.

    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?
     
    No idea who that person is, but I've met a lot of Iranian exile types' children in London and I liked them. Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?

    Replies: @songbird

  945. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Obviously they’ll always be a small minority of alienated sociopaths, like those Americans who follow Andrew Anglin’s sub-Der Sturmer Nazism, but they’re impossibly marginalised.
     
    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.
     
    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.

    I said “followers”, not readers.

    And subscribers to the NYT and WaPo tend to be socially well-adjusted, rather than sociopaths.

    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?

    No idea who that person is, but I’ve met a lot of Iranian exile types’ children in London and I liked them. Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I said “followers”, not readers.
     
    Today, there really isn't much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you "follow" him you are reading his tweets.

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group (probably mostly Feds creating photo ops), and not worth wasting one's breath over. Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I'm sure they understand that, but don't like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and "hate-filled." But probably more-so, as they lack the obvious comedic element, and lack the outsider status, which makes trolling an effective technique for satire.

    Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?
     
    In effect you seem to be saying "I wouldn't mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe." It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.

    (What would be the political effects of such a transformation? Possibly war with Iran. Though, still might be worth it to transmogrify the Arabs into Iranians. And, if we can do it once in the hypothetical why not again, and turn them into Slavs or something?)

    If you are merely saying that Iranians are less offensive and antagonistic than most other MENA groups, it might be possible. I believe some of them in Sweden support the Swedish Dems. But, at least in Germany, many prominent Iranians seem to belong to the SPD or Greens, and seem to be pretty antagonistic to the natives.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  946. @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I've been living among Mormons for quite a long time so let me offer some corrections to what you wrote:

    - Mormons did import converts to Utah since the very beginning. Shortly after the settlement of the initial pioneers with New England and Midwestern roots, large contingents of converts from the British Islands, Scandinavia, Germany and elsewhere came to Utah. The process never stopped. A visible contingent of Pacific Islander converts has been living in Utah for generations and Latino Mormons in Utah, another group with old roots, keep increasing their numbers.

    - Calling Fundamentalist Mormons 'hard-core' is misleading. It's a bit like calling Orthodox Christians "hard-core Christians". They retained customs and tenets of the religion as it was practiced originally but have very little in common with Mainstream Mormonism, apart from their common origin. In fact, FLDS members are excommunicated and forbidden from entering Mormon temples, which even myself (an atheist) have often been invited to do. In Utah nobody would understand the expression 'hard-core Mormons' to refer to the fringe FLDS groups. In Mormonism, as in every religion, you have the observant, the very observant, the lukewarmers, the "cultural Mormons" who don't believe but go along with the customs and a very vocal group of ex-Mormons who hate their former religion with a passion, not dissimilar to what happens in all other faiths.

    - The small community of FLDS on the border with Arizona is famous for the genetic aberrations caused by generations of in-group relationships but this has little to do with the population of Utah at large. Utah has some of the best longevity and health metrics in the US and I very much doubt that people in Utah are more inbred than in many other rural communities all across the US. In fact, I would say that Utahns in general look better than most other Americans, although this is of course a subjective opinion and to some extent it may have to do with the fact that Utahns, to a larger extent than most other Americans, descend from Northwestern Europeans, the old "Aryan" archetype.

    - Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah. The scenarios of exponential growth of descendants of a few founder members didn't have the time to materialize.

    Mormonism is a weird religion, perhaps more obviously fake than the longer established ones (at least if your tolerance for irrationality is not very low), and it seems to be tempting to jump to easy conclusions based on a cursory, mostly web-based knowledge of Mormons but in real life Mormons are quite ordinary people, decent, generally welcoming, a bit naive but capable of creating extremely functional communities. Btw, Utah is a leading center of genetic studies. Medical professionals in Utah, very often Mormons, are sure to be aware of the genetic consequences that the settlement patterns of the state may or may not not have caused as much as anyone else.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

    Mormonism is pretty young, it hasn’t yet reached even 200 years, so it is hard to judge the genetic impact of endogamy within broader community like Salt Lake City or Utah. But if Mormons are so keen on genetics as you say, they surely are aware of the dangers they kinship patterns potentially create for them. Abolishing polygamy in their endogamic community is surely a step in the right direction.

    BTW, out of curiosity, did Mormons try to convert you, and if so, how many times…?

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective


    did Mormons try to convert you
     
    You bet.

    , and if so, how many times…?
     
    I lost count. Neighbors have generally given up but new missionaries keep trying periodically. It's their duty. They can't allow themselves to let someone among them miss salvation. Once you understand their personal intentions, it becomes more bearable.
  947. @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I've been living among Mormons for quite a long time so let me offer some corrections to what you wrote:

    - Mormons did import converts to Utah since the very beginning. Shortly after the settlement of the initial pioneers with New England and Midwestern roots, large contingents of converts from the British Islands, Scandinavia, Germany and elsewhere came to Utah. The process never stopped. A visible contingent of Pacific Islander converts has been living in Utah for generations and Latino Mormons in Utah, another group with old roots, keep increasing their numbers.

    - Calling Fundamentalist Mormons 'hard-core' is misleading. It's a bit like calling Orthodox Christians "hard-core Christians". They retained customs and tenets of the religion as it was practiced originally but have very little in common with Mainstream Mormonism, apart from their common origin. In fact, FLDS members are excommunicated and forbidden from entering Mormon temples, which even myself (an atheist) have often been invited to do. In Utah nobody would understand the expression 'hard-core Mormons' to refer to the fringe FLDS groups. In Mormonism, as in every religion, you have the observant, the very observant, the lukewarmers, the "cultural Mormons" who don't believe but go along with the customs and a very vocal group of ex-Mormons who hate their former religion with a passion, not dissimilar to what happens in all other faiths.

    - The small community of FLDS on the border with Arizona is famous for the genetic aberrations caused by generations of in-group relationships but this has little to do with the population of Utah at large. Utah has some of the best longevity and health metrics in the US and I very much doubt that people in Utah are more inbred than in many other rural communities all across the US. In fact, I would say that Utahns in general look better than most other Americans, although this is of course a subjective opinion and to some extent it may have to do with the fact that Utahns, to a larger extent than most other Americans, descend from Northwestern Europeans, the old "Aryan" archetype.

    - Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah. The scenarios of exponential growth of descendants of a few founder members didn't have the time to materialize.

    Mormonism is a weird religion, perhaps more obviously fake than the longer established ones (at least if your tolerance for irrationality is not very low), and it seems to be tempting to jump to easy conclusions based on a cursory, mostly web-based knowledge of Mormons but in real life Mormons are quite ordinary people, decent, generally welcoming, a bit naive but capable of creating extremely functional communities. Btw, Utah is a leading center of genetic studies. Medical professionals in Utah, very often Mormons, are sure to be aware of the genetic consequences that the settlement patterns of the state may or may not not have caused as much as anyone else.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Yahya

    – Polygamy was abandoned by the LDS Church in the late 19th century, a couple of generations after the initial settlement in Utah.

    That’s not true. Mormons still practice polygamy to this day. Old men and their cousins marry 50 teenage wives each. I know this from the internet.

  948. @Leaves No Shadow
    @A123

    Islam is ngmi. There's no conspiracy, just death throes and a general misunderstanding of those death throes.

    People chimping out over the burning of a book on the other side of the world are only not seen as pathetic in the moment, when fear and shock distracts the viewer.

    The same for those who proudly burn people.

    The problem with a lot of Muslims in Europe is that their relative lack of accomplishment and, often, intelligence*, leaves them feeling humbled. And their lack of spiritual development leaves them reacting to their humbling with resentment and egotistical deceptions.

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.

    That's a straightforward result of my interplaying preferences for cultured and intelligent people and Europeans. The former elitist and the latter racist, by some definitions, though without hatred. And not that either comes close to my appreciation for an individual. Just factors and preferences when aggregating at the level of millions or tens of millions.



    https://twitter.com/ImtiazMadmood/status/1624747361154080768?t=DJqSObCsGyDW7Uz728RfCw&s=19

    Replies: @A123

    I also prefer a Europe of Europeans but, were Muslims in Europe like much of the Iranian diaspora in Europe, and particularly cultured and intelligent, my concern at the large numbers would be greatly diminished.

    The best & brightest would likely be the most secular. Devotion to home land culture would be more material such as cuisine and art. This also implies much lower numbers so their children would wind up well integrated to local culture. However, even this is not 100%. Now that we are in the internet age, online radicalization is a serious threat. The Pulse Nightclub mass murderer was 2nd generation.

    Accepting excessive numbers of the least capable is clearly a disastrous mistake. In the short term, the only way to protect infidel children is exclusion of sexual predatory Islam. If Rape-ugees need to be protected somewhere within Africa, that can be done. However, letting significant quantities into Europe is a non-starter.

    Can Muslims change and become something that does not express current Islamic behaviour? I am dubious.

    PEACE 😇

  949. @AnonfromTN
    Dynamics on the front lines and staggering losses of Ukrainian solders and equipment suggested to RAND that the US war against Russia in Ukraine is lost. Yet the empire and obedient sidekicks keep pouring funds and weapons into doomed Ukraine. Some see it as folly, throwing good money after bad. But I believe there is long-term strategy in this. The more Ukrainians and Russians die or get maimed in this conflict, the longer mutual negative feelings would persist, i.e., the longer it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine. Even now it would take something like two generations (40-50 years). With a few additional hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and tens of thousands of dead Russians this would take longer, likely three or more generations. So, the money and materiel going to Ukraine is the payment for these additional 25-50 years it would take Russia to integrate the territories of former Ukraine, i.e., experience difficulties because of internal splits. So, imperial policy does not appear to be fallacious, it might just reflect uncharacteristic long-term thinking.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Gerard1234

    I wrote about the exact same thing on Runet when the war started. The only difference is what is driving it is less American exceptionalism…..and more blood vendetta from the pitiful excrement diaspora in US intelligence agencies, lobby and politics against Russia .
    Banderite-scum in US, because 404 is a fake state, because all the so-called culture and identity of Ukraine comes from the Russian side, NEED a mass killing of Ukrainians and a big war against Russia to feed into their sick fantasies about creating “Ukrainian” identity. At least the other diaspora trash from Poland/Baltics etc only want to harm Russia upto the point missiles start landing in the mother country. American Banderetards freaks have nothing like that restraining them.

    Its no surprise that if not World communism, then certainly US-USSR relations were in a decent state when a German Jew, Kissinger, was in charge of US Foreign Policy. When some filthy, rabid, loser Pole or psychotic Pale of Settlement/Pogrom/ 1970s retard Jew get at the top level of US foreign policy then things like this happen. American banderetard freaks they need

    It will take something like 2 generations

    Don’t underestimate the extreme attraction of the Russian world though.

    Not even 1 generation had gone when Red & White families who suffered badly were marrying each other and fighting together. Every Russian family has had vigorous debates/ argument about Tsar vs Soviet – but everything goes on fine.

    Don’t get me start on the fake Golodomor, how long before people had forgotten about it in Ukraine and South Russia and Kazakhstan ? 3 seconds?

    Even that gutless swine Bandera’s family lived fine in Russia

    Chechnya? Would a miracle like that happen in an American society after nowhere even near 1 generation? Zero chance

    Every single time except Yushchenko, “Ukrainian” President is elected using the mirage he is “pro-Russian”, the bastard after successfully manipulating the electorate immediately implements insidiously anti-russian policy and allows in western intelligence agencies and NGO’s to bring disaster. Kravchuk then Kuchma – that exact pattern in their switch. Even Yanukovich to some extent. Poroshenko/Valtsman and Z-drug addict –
    both parasites – were elected as puppet presidents from their extremely close Russian connections, with the lemming-electorate genuinely believing they were best “central” position candidates who would maintain Russian culture, economic links and bring peace to Donbass, bring calmness to Russian government AND reform country to legal and technical European standards. Of course none of that happened, and in typical khokhol” culture”of uselessness the only “achievement” was using the now reduced Russian money to blame Russiand for how they hadn’t made ANY progress in 8 years at Euro-integration!

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Gerard1234

    After the SMO, I wonder if most Ukrainians under 35 years old will quickly let go of this fight (emotionally) once they learn about the more balanced picture which has been drowned out by anti-Russia propaganda for a long time?

    One generation might be enough.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  950. @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Iffen, is that you posting on Emil's account?

    It sounds like one of your low-IQ Yahoo #NeverTrump rants.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    My impression is Christians are viewed as the descendants of apostate Jews. This is a big deal with some orthodox Jews, but is mostly irrelevant to the majority of Jews who are now secularized or non-observant.

    However, the bifurcation of Christianity from Judaism is still a crucial issue to some. This is the main reason the term Judeo-Christian is misleading, even though it may be strictly accurate to lump the religions together due to shared Old Testament history and mythology.

    Having said that, I know little about this beyond what I have learned here at Unz! If your hair just caught fire, please go straight to the shower–>

  951. @Beckow
    @AP

    Let just agree to disagree. You simply spout Ukie feel-good slogans, some of them outright lies, some just meaningless flights of fancy. Not a serious stuff.

    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato, that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training, joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov) - all of it was being put in place. Like an idiot you choose to ignore it - or worse, like a desperate propagandist caught lying.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato - if you pretend that is not the case you are like an ostrich. It is impossible to have a rational discussion w someone who consistently denies the obvious. Try a bit of critical thinking, it may enlighten you.


    Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population
     
    What? How small exactly are you planning for this "free Ukieland" to be? I am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people? Or less? I don't think you realize that you are de facto dreaming of destruction of Ukraine as a viable, large nation - in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people. And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much...pathetic.

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe - a destruction of a nation. These quasi-Nazi dreams you have are sick. It goes well with you mono-lingual ethnic-cleansing idiocy. Just stay home and fix the American demographic collapse (or "transition").

    Replies: @216, @AP

    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato

    And year after year Ukraine didn’t get close to being in NATO, which means that if NATO says Ukraine will be in NATO, it is not going to happen. It’s nice words for Ukraine, and an excuse that Russia uses so morons like you believe that invading Ukraine was necessary to keep it out of NATO.

    If it’s a consolation, some Russian grandmothers probably agree with you.

    that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training

    Still in the constitution, and arms and cross-training have increased by an order of magnitude since the Russian invasion.

    joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov)

    Nice fantasy. You complain about the use of “if” but do the same when it suits you.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato

    Correction: the whole crisis exists because Russia does not want to lose Ukraine to the West. It does not want a Ukraine divided from it.

    “Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population”

    What? How small exactly are you planning for this “free Ukieland” to be?

    Ukraine in the current border probably has 25-30 million people, taking into account the millions who have fled. Add about 4-5 million if they 70% or so of the refugees come back after the war. This is the most likely scenario.

    A fraction of West Germany’s 64 million people.

    And an even smaller fraction of the population of the 18 European countries that were subsidized by the USA’s Marshall Plan after World War II.

    am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people?

    In the extremely unlikely event that Ukraine gets reduced to the parts that were non-Soviet in 1939 it would be 12-15 million people. Ironically, this much-smaller Ukraine would probably improve much more quickly, it is close to the West with infrastructure already there, easier to manage, etc.

    large nation – in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people.

    And if it included southern Russia it would have 80 million, but it would not be Ukraine any more.

    Losing the ethnic Russians of Crimea and Donetsk was a very good thing. It was their fault that Ukraine fell so far behind in the 1990s and 2000s, they were the anchor that kept Ukraine from following Poland and the Baltics westward. This was why Putin was trying until the last moment to keep Donbas in Ukraine under the condition of special autonomy and veto power over national policy.

    And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much

    You are just lying as usual.

    Would you like your Slovak language to be replaced by Hungarian? Or to have only half your population speak it? No? Does that mean you hate the Hungarian people and language?

    You who see hatred everywhere must be full of hatred yourself. Is it bitter for you, being an eternal lackey? Embarrassing to see your would-be master Putin stumble so much?

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe

    Loss of population is terrible but not as terrible as occupation and forced integration with Eurasia, and not as terrible as replacement as in Western Europe and in the Balkans.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP

    There is a lot of outright nonsense in what your write (I will address it), but it is a coherent view-point: Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn't have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.

    It would be - based on how the war goes - a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country hoping to get into EU (and get subsidies) and probably with some stand-off agreement between Nato and Russia, that Nato would again violate in 20-30 years. It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, 'tourists' would visit for the bars and security conferences. It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).

    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine? Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers, who sells them trinkets, how many people can leave - none of that is of any interest to Nato. Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That's what they want - you not seeing it is extremely naive. They would also like Crimea (strategic), and they will use the Ukies to fight for as much of it as they can make them - and die in large numbers.

    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe). Its main enemy and is Russia. There is an element of chicken-and-egg, who did what first, who reacted. But Nato is not in Ukraine with $100's billions for Zelensky wife's pretty eyes. You denying it makes you into a useful moron, only focused on his silly ethnic-language dreams. If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.

    Regarding your denials: 'but they postponed it year after year!" - are you really that stupid? That's how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances. Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha...good one). That's exactly the same approach with Nato and Ukraine. A careful game to win.

    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato. But it is pointless to try to convince you: you are either a lying ideologue (why, this is a discussion forum?) or you simply don't know how the world works.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  952. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea. Russia has put down so many absurd red lines that this red line has been rendered meaningless. Even China doesn't recognise Russian sovereignty over Ukraine, so nuclear threats would be unwelcome anyway. Anyone who doesn't realise that China, India, Brazil etc would cut Russia off,
    even from the neutrality they show it currently, and leave it entirely isolated if Russia threatened global nuclear destruction, is quite stupid. Receiving oil subsidised at great expense by the Russian people is great, but it isn't "accepting destroying the entire human future because it can't handle the embarrassment of losing a war of choice" great.

    I would therefore strongly advise Putin to offer to standown at the next election, return his troops to the status quo ante, pay substantial compensation and drop all opposition to Ukraine entering the EU, in return for immediate peace and the dropping of sanctions, all as soon as possible. There is no better outcome that Russia can achieve and it is only downhill from here.

    It might be hard to accept that this deal would be worse than one it could have gotten yesterday, but it is better than one it could get tomorrow. The trajectory should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of courage.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea

    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated
    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population
    3. The West doesn’t want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William


    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated
     
    I don't care about various idiots' false pride.

    I think instead you might say that no one wants Russian territorial integrity violated, nor Ukraine's, but then you'd see which side of that equation Crimea would fall under.

    I'd also emphasize that absolutely no one serious wants Russian unity broken. That would be far too dangerous, but Russia was actually better, and still unified, prior to squatting in Crimea.

    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population
     
    I disagree that this is inevitable, beyond very small scale incidents. Putin's war will have diminished Russia's standing even in the eyes of Crimeans, I'd bet a lot on it. Especially when it is finally absolutely revealed as a failure.

    3. The West doesn’t want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column
     
    Lol, at Russia having any hope for influence in post-war Ukraine.
    , @Mikel
    @Greasy William


    The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population
     
    The West will not have any problem pretending that those crimes don't exist, relativizing them or even accusing the Russians of being the perpetrators. That's exactly what's happened with the thousands of civilians killed by their own army in Donbas over the past years and our media didn't even have the excuse of the barbaric Russian invasion that they now have. Our leaders may not want to risk a total humiliation of Russia but we can be certain that possible Ukrainian crimes against civilians in Crimea is totally out of their radar.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  953. @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...genetically, cousin marriages preserves purity of...female race: unlike Y-chromosome, X-chromosome recombines, so if you want to preserve it in some way, you must mix the same with the same, namely, marry cousins...
     
    True, but historically it was the male side that was seen as more valuable and worth preserving. Males would have relatively little concern about mixing with very different females - although not necessarily in a formal marriage with inheritance rights, etc...

    An essential element in the preference for cousin marriages was property - close enough relatives were preferable to strangers who could interfere with property distribution. There was also a strong social element: the inability to meet and mate with (respectable) women who were not cousins...that became self-enforcing as the rituals of family ties and arranged marriages became ossified.

    Going outside of one's own small group to mate was in the past quite tricky: of course, conquests and purchases assisted a small percentage of men, but in a routine small environments that most of our ancestors lived, meeting mate-able non-relatives was a challenge. Villagers tended to fight off outsiders and the logistics were quite complex.

    The Church's objection was often observed in a breach - a dispensation was frequent and if a child was involved (based on mid-19th century English records it was in up 50% marriages), it was seen as preferable. The genetics are a recent idea - our ancestors often perceived it in an opposite way: closer the better. The results, as we have seen with the Habsburg and other royal retards were horrific...the village idiots didn't get quite the notoriety but I suspect people would whisper about their ancestry...

    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back. It maximizes the selection process and minimizes survival of bad traits. If the genetic distance is too far - Negro with a Chinese, European with a Quechua Indio - the results can be very bad: the genes are picked at random with no coherence and the result can be dysfunctional. It actually gets better with a repeat mixing because some genetic familiarity is re-established...but the partial-Indio masses still strike most people as not healthy and underdeveloped. Mating closer than 7 generations back has been the norm for most of history - all of us are quite imperfect and destined to remain so :)...

    Replies: @AP

    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back.

    It’s closer – 3rd and 4th cousins are ideal from the perspective of offspring health:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-incest-is-best-kissi/

    But there is a dramatic decline in health with 2nd cousins and 1st cousins.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    This is skewed study, since it takes the avoidance of serological conflict in a country with one of the highest incidences of Rh- (Iceland) as a positive indication for cousin marriage. There is also no control group of non-cousin marriages, such a group maybe hard to find in Iceland, but in such a case Iceland should not be touted as a generalized outcome.
    I also do wonder why the study (as many others concerning cousin marriages) is obsessed with fertility, whereas the number/prencentage of healthy children per pair should be more informative.

    Replies: @AP

  954. @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN

    I wrote about the exact same thing on Runet when the war started. The only difference is what is driving it is less American exceptionalism.....and more blood vendetta from the pitiful excrement diaspora in US intelligence agencies, lobby and politics against Russia .
    Banderite-scum in US, because 404 is a fake state, because all the so-called culture and identity of Ukraine comes from the Russian side, NEED a mass killing of Ukrainians and a big war against Russia to feed into their sick fantasies about creating "Ukrainian" identity. At least the other diaspora trash from Poland/Baltics etc only want to harm Russia upto the point missiles start landing in the mother country. American Banderetards freaks have nothing like that restraining them.

    Its no surprise that if not World communism, then certainly US-USSR relations were in a decent state when a German Jew, Kissinger, was in charge of US Foreign Policy. When some filthy, rabid, loser Pole or psychotic Pale of Settlement/Pogrom/ 1970s retard Jew get at the top level of US foreign policy then things like this happen. American banderetard freaks they need


    It will take something like 2 generations
     
    Don't underestimate the extreme attraction of the Russian world though.

    Not even 1 generation had gone when Red & White families who suffered badly were marrying each other and fighting together. Every Russian family has had vigorous debates/ argument about Tsar vs Soviet - but everything goes on fine.

    Don't get me start on the fake Golodomor, how long before people had forgotten about it in Ukraine and South Russia and Kazakhstan ? 3 seconds?

    Even that gutless swine Bandera's family lived fine in Russia

    Chechnya? Would a miracle like that happen in an American society after nowhere even near 1 generation? Zero chance

    Every single time except Yushchenko, "Ukrainian" President is elected using the mirage he is "pro-Russian", the bastard after successfully manipulating the electorate immediately implements insidiously anti-russian policy and allows in western intelligence agencies and NGO's to bring disaster. Kravchuk then Kuchma - that exact pattern in their switch. Even Yanukovich to some extent. Poroshenko/Valtsman and Z-drug addict -
    both parasites - were elected as puppet presidents from their extremely close Russian connections, with the lemming-electorate genuinely believing they were best "central" position candidates who would maintain Russian culture, economic links and bring peace to Donbass, bring calmness to Russian government AND reform country to legal and technical European standards. Of course none of that happened, and in typical khokhol" culture"of uselessness the only "achievement" was using the now reduced Russian money to blame Russiand for how they hadn't made ANY progress in 8 years at Euro-integration!

    Replies: @QCIC

    After the SMO, I wonder if most Ukrainians under 35 years old will quickly let go of this fight (emotionally) once they learn about the more balanced picture which has been drowned out by anti-Russia propaganda for a long time?

    One generation might be enough.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    If they ever forget the hatred some Russians have for them, merely for not wanting to be Russian, they need only ever look at Gerrard's comment history.

    Replies: @QCIC

  955. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    If people who read Anglin are sociopaths (yourself included), then I wonder what that makes the people who subscribe to the NYT and The Washington Post.
     
    I said "followers", not readers.

    And subscribers to the NYT and WaPo tend to be socially well-adjusted, rather than sociopaths.

    You mean like Omid Nouripour, that solanine in Germany who is prematurely celebrating the end of the Biodeutsch?
     
    No idea who that person is, but I've met a lot of Iranian exile types' children in London and I liked them. Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?

    Replies: @songbird

    I said “followers”, not readers.

    Today, there really isn’t much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you “follow” him you are reading his tweets.

    [MORE]

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group (probably mostly Feds creating photo ops), and not worth wasting one’s breath over. Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I’m sure they understand that, but don’t like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and “hate-filled.” But probably more-so, as they lack the obvious comedic element, and lack the outsider status, which makes trolling an effective technique for satire.

    Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?

    In effect you seem to be saying “I wouldn’t mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe.” It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.

    (What would be the political effects of such a transformation? Possibly war with Iran. Though, still might be worth it to transmogrify the Arabs into Iranians. And, if we can do it once in the hypothetical why not again, and turn them into Slavs or something?)

    If you are merely saying that Iranians are less offensive and antagonistic than most other MENA groups, it might be possible. I believe some of them in Sweden support the Swedish Dems. But, at least in Germany, many prominent Iranians seem to belong to the SPD or Greens, and seem to be pretty antagonistic to the natives.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    Today, there really isn’t much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you “follow” him you are reading his tweets.
     
    Sorry, you're unable to distinguish between my use of the word "follower" and someone who reads something, even after I've explained it.

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group
     
    Literally my point.

    Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.
     
    I was making a prediction about the future. Islamists have dug Islam's grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I’m sure they understand that, but don’t like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and “hate-filled.”
     
    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin. Get a standard sized ruler and notice that, between 1 inch and 12 inches, there are many other markings. So with most qualities.

    In effect you seem to be saying “I wouldn’t mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe.” It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.
     
    I said I would mind it much less than millions of fanatically illiterate cousin-marrying and women-beating Kashmiris. Wouldn't you mind it much less too? In fact, I'd swap it for the current situation in a heartbeat.

    I may have what are often defined as racist preferences, but I have a lot of different types of preferences. For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist. And I'd question the sanity of anyone who wouldn't.

    Replies: @songbird

  956. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea
     
    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated
    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea's civilian population
    3. The West doesn't want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Mikel

    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated

    I don’t care about various idiots’ false pride.

    I think instead you might say that no one wants Russian territorial integrity violated, nor Ukraine’s, but then you’d see which side of that equation Crimea would fall under.

    I’d also emphasize that absolutely no one serious wants Russian unity broken. That would be far too dangerous, but Russia was actually better, and still unified, prior to squatting in Crimea.

    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population

    I disagree that this is inevitable, beyond very small scale incidents. Putin’s war will have diminished Russia’s standing even in the eyes of Crimeans, I’d bet a lot on it. Especially when it is finally absolutely revealed as a failure.

    3. The West doesn’t want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column

    Lol, at Russia having any hope for influence in post-war Ukraine.

  957. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I said “followers”, not readers.
     
    Today, there really isn't much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you "follow" him you are reading his tweets.

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group (probably mostly Feds creating photo ops), and not worth wasting one's breath over. Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I'm sure they understand that, but don't like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and "hate-filled." But probably more-so, as they lack the obvious comedic element, and lack the outsider status, which makes trolling an effective technique for satire.

    Does that seem contradictory with opposing mass immigration to you?
     
    In effect you seem to be saying "I wouldn't mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe." It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.

    (What would be the political effects of such a transformation? Possibly war with Iran. Though, still might be worth it to transmogrify the Arabs into Iranians. And, if we can do it once in the hypothetical why not again, and turn them into Slavs or something?)

    If you are merely saying that Iranians are less offensive and antagonistic than most other MENA groups, it might be possible. I believe some of them in Sweden support the Swedish Dems. But, at least in Germany, many prominent Iranians seem to belong to the SPD or Greens, and seem to be pretty antagonistic to the natives.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Today, there really isn’t much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you “follow” him you are reading his tweets.

    Sorry, you’re unable to distinguish between my use of the word “follower” and someone who reads something, even after I’ve explained it.

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group

    Literally my point.

    Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.

    I was making a prediction about the future. Islamists have dug Islam’s grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I’m sure they understand that, but don’t like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and “hate-filled.”

    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin. Get a standard sized ruler and notice that, between 1 inch and 12 inches, there are many other markings. So with most qualities.

    In effect you seem to be saying “I wouldn’t mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe.” It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.

    I said I would mind it much less than millions of fanatically illiterate cousin-marrying and women-beating Kashmiris. Wouldn’t you mind it much less too? In fact, I’d swap it for the current situation in a heartbeat.

    I may have what are often defined as racist preferences, but I have a lot of different types of preferences. For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist. And I’d question the sanity of anyone who wouldn’t.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Islamists have dug Islam’s grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.
     
    It is mainly one strain of Islam: Sunnism or perhaps Wahhabism, and there are many others. Not to mention, religions also have the capacity to morph further, and historically, there are are trends, like falling fertility, and development, which decrease terrorism. (BTW, globally Islamic terrorism is on the decline since 2014)

    And that is supposing that terrorism even has some negative effect. I don't think it is clear that videos taken off youtube for graphic violence will cause a lot of Muslims to renounce their faith. Besides, Mohammed was a warrior, who slaughtered the Banu Qurayza. Violence and iconoclasm aren't really massive contradictions, apologists aside.

    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin.
     
    You might not like it, but, TBH, Anglin probably has a higher IQ than the average mainstream journalist of 2023. Ta-Nehisi Coates is such a one.

    As to sociopathy: Anglin doesn't have any influence. He operates as a troll - by definition marginal. His message is not echoed endlessly and amplified and drilled into people's brains. It is not broadcast five times a day on dozens of channels, so he engages in tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.

    The press has that influence and knows it, and they still operate in such a way that results in murder in the streets, riots, the destruction and theft of billions, and that is not counting the trillions of stolen wealth from taxes. Or the effect they've had on promoting gays and trannies, and open borders and the civil rights regime. Saying stuff like "Invade Iran!" They promote endless 24/7 slander against Europeans and men, and run defense and try to obfuscate any bad stories that go against their narrative, and you think they are not sociopathic? No, they are criminal.

    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you? His satirical take about Jewish power and intolerance? Or on feminists and gays? Rather, I'd say it would be a much healthier society, if these groups could actually be criticized and subjected to at least half the level of criticism they dish out, without people being immediately cancelled.

    Anyway, you should probably quit hate-reading Anglin, if it is actually gotten to the point where you think he is more harmful that the mainstream media. That's an unhealthy delusion.

    For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist.
     
    Can you please avoid such unnecessary analogies in the future? There is no benefit to straw-manning child-rapists, unless you like disturbing people for fun.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

  958. @QCIC
    @Gerard1234

    After the SMO, I wonder if most Ukrainians under 35 years old will quickly let go of this fight (emotionally) once they learn about the more balanced picture which has been drowned out by anti-Russia propaganda for a long time?

    One generation might be enough.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    If they ever forget the hatred some Russians have for them, merely for not wanting to be Russian, they need only ever look at Gerrard’s comment history.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, G does get worked up, so we know he cares!

    He is also one of the commenters who brings some reality back into the discussion when a pro-Ukrainian/anti-Russia commenter goes off the rails and writes a bunch of reasonable sounding and highly misleading comments. This does happen, so the presence of the two different Ukraine-SMO perspectives at Unz is a nice combination. I doubt that it gives outsiders like me much real insight into the apparent clash of cultures, but a little is better than none.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  959. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian). The Polish side I was able to trace to early nineteenth century Belarus. The Ukrainian side is more exotic, there might have been Turkic roots. He spoke and was literate in Ukrainian and kept his "southern Russian" accent to the end of his life, but he didn't see himself as that different from his Russian friends and neighbors. At that time it didn't really matter. The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war. The Russian side is near Penza, also in Piter and Moscow, but there are distant relatives in Siberia and Murmansk area too. There are millions of people of mixed ancestry between the two countries.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian).

    One of my ancestral lines moved from Belarus to Galicia in the 1700s. It was a Greek Catholic, who married into the local Galician (Ruthenian) Greek Catholics. My aunt in Lviv still has the document from around those times that confirms their status in the local administration. They would later become Ukrainian nationalists, albeit Polonophiles who respected the positive aspects of the legacy of the PLC. The ones who stayed in Belarus became completely Polonized. One of them painted a famous portrait of Mickiewicz.

    The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war.

    Have you stayed in touch with them?

    ::::::::::::

    This war may finally bring to an end the failed experiment of Muscovites trying to integrate Ukraine (a natural part of the PLC world) into their Eurasian Muscovite state. They took advantage of the civil war and the treason of Khmelnytsky, who rebelled primarily against the native Rus magnates of Ukraine, to grab this territory. The results have been bad both for Ukraine and for Muscovy. Muscovy/Russia can thank this artificial union for Petrine Church reforms, and influx of Trotskys and the like into their territory. Okay, they also got Gogol but on balance it wasn’t worth it. And Ukraine got brain drain, worsened serfdom, Holodomor, etc.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    No, I haven't heard from the Ukrainian branch of the family since the emigration. I hope they are doing alright given the circumstances.

  960. @AP
    @Beckow


    Supposedly the ideal genetic distance is 7 generations back.
     
    It's closer - 3rd and 4th cousins are ideal from the perspective of offspring health:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-incest-is-best-kissi/

    But there is a dramatic decline in health with 2nd cousins and 1st cousins.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    This is skewed study, since it takes the avoidance of serological conflict in a country with one of the highest incidences of Rh- (Iceland) as a positive indication for cousin marriage. There is also no control group of non-cousin marriages, such a group maybe hard to find in Iceland, but in such a case Iceland should not be touted as a generalized outcome.
    I also do wonder why the study (as many others concerning cousin marriages) is obsessed with fertility, whereas the number/prencentage of healthy children per pair should be more informative.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Fertility is an indirect indicator of health, especially in previous generations, before the arrival of modern birth control. That the products of 3rd and 4th cousin marriage were most fertile suggests that they were healthier than the products of people who were both more and less closely related.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  961. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Yes he was half Ukrainian and half Orthodox Polish (Ruthenian).

     

    One of my ancestral lines moved from Belarus to Galicia in the 1700s. It was a Greek Catholic, who married into the local Galician (Ruthenian) Greek Catholics. My aunt in Lviv still has the document from around those times that confirms their status in the local administration. They would later become Ukrainian nationalists, albeit Polonophiles who respected the positive aspects of the legacy of the PLC. The ones who stayed in Belarus became completely Polonized. One of them painted a famous portrait of Mickiewicz.

    The Ukrainian branch of the family lives in Krivoy Rog and in Chernovtsy where they settled after the war.
     
    Have you stayed in touch with them?

    ::::::::::::

    This war may finally bring to an end the failed experiment of Muscovites trying to integrate Ukraine (a natural part of the PLC world) into their Eurasian Muscovite state. They took advantage of the civil war and the treason of Khmelnytsky, who rebelled primarily against the native Rus magnates of Ukraine, to grab this territory. The results have been bad both for Ukraine and for Muscovy. Muscovy/Russia can thank this artificial union for Petrine Church reforms, and influx of Trotskys and the like into their territory. Okay, they also got Gogol but on balance it wasn't worth it. And Ukraine got brain drain, worsened serfdom, Holodomor, etc.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    No, I haven’t heard from the Ukrainian branch of the family since the emigration. I hope they are doing alright given the circumstances.

  962. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    This is skewed study, since it takes the avoidance of serological conflict in a country with one of the highest incidences of Rh- (Iceland) as a positive indication for cousin marriage. There is also no control group of non-cousin marriages, such a group maybe hard to find in Iceland, but in such a case Iceland should not be touted as a generalized outcome.
    I also do wonder why the study (as many others concerning cousin marriages) is obsessed with fertility, whereas the number/prencentage of healthy children per pair should be more informative.

    Replies: @AP

    Fertility is an indirect indicator of health, especially in previous generations, before the arrival of modern birth control. That the products of 3rd and 4th cousin marriage were most fertile suggests that they were healthier than the products of people who were both more and less closely related.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    But the data harvesting was for a rather narrow time window (1820-24) which kind of makes it suspicious (they could find a narrow window which confirms their thesis); for general trends you would need something like 20-30 years (or one generation).

    The difference between fertilities in numbers of grandchildren as the function of fertility of children for both groups is negligible (2.26 vs 2.18) which suggests the claimed effect is probably spurious, being an effect of simply a time window - obviously grandchildren would be born in a different time window than children.

  963. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Fertility is an indirect indicator of health, especially in previous generations, before the arrival of modern birth control. That the products of 3rd and 4th cousin marriage were most fertile suggests that they were healthier than the products of people who were both more and less closely related.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    But the data harvesting was for a rather narrow time window (1820-24) which kind of makes it suspicious (they could find a narrow window which confirms their thesis); for general trends you would need something like 20-30 years (or one generation).

    The difference between fertilities in numbers of grandchildren as the function of fertility of children for both groups is negligible (2.26 vs 2.18) which suggests the claimed effect is probably spurious, being an effect of simply a time window – obviously grandchildren would be born in a different time window than children.

  964. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    The song game out in 1971, and at that time, it looked like the population was growing. It still is, but the locals aren't keeping up, therefore the resulting influx of immigrants. Housing problems probably started back then too, it felt like the cities were getting crowded. It's gotten worse over time, come take a drive through Phoenix sometime...probably the same in England too, as the Ten Years After were a British group. A great song though, I really like the bluesey moaning of the lead guitar throughout....I came across it recently, accidentally on YouTube. I forgot how much I used to really enjoy it.

    Replies: @songbird, @Gerard1234

    My little Ukrainian community in Phoenix

    LMAO, some homo S&M group is not “Ukrainian community” you dumb prick. There is no such thing. I have been to America many times all over and NEVER, ever heard anybody refer to “Ukrainian” community, neighbourhood, parade, Church or anything. It’s as fake as a 12-legged Giraffe you POS. Since 2014,and mostly since last year is when 99.9% of Americans have heard of these “people”/psychiatric condition called Ukrainian.

    Russian German, Irish, Italian, Dutch, Jewish,Swedish, Fillapino, Cuban, Mexican,Japanese, Korean,Greek, Hungarian, Indian… even Welsh, Scottish, Armenian and others of these peoples you just hear from someone or see something that make clear these are longstanding diasporas and communities in US.

    Upto 2014, no American had heard of them. I am sure everybody else here can support my claims. How fake and pathetic an “ethnicity” do you have to be that nobody has heard of you? Even 2nd generation Poles in US, LOL

    Not one single settlement in America or North America named after ANY “Ukrainian” town or word. LMAO. What more proof they are fake do you want idiot? 100% of Americans think “ko” and “yuk” ending familia are stereotypical RUSSIAN names.

    As for that village idiot mother of yours – she probably didn’t even call herself “Ukrainian” until Stalin created UN seat for ukrop SSR – Galician trash are the exact opposite of “fiercely proud” Ukrainians

    • Troll: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    I've met Russians who now pretend to be Ukrainians abroad. Whatever you think about the past, the present is not it.

  965. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel

    Mormonism is pretty young, it hasn't yet reached even 200 years, so it is hard to judge the genetic impact of endogamy within broader community like Salt Lake City or Utah. But if Mormons are so keen on genetics as you say, they surely are aware of the dangers they kinship patterns potentially create for them. Abolishing polygamy in their endogamic community is surely a step in the right direction.

    BTW, out of curiosity, did Mormons try to convert you, and if so, how many times...?

    Replies: @Mikel

    did Mormons try to convert you

    You bet.

    , and if so, how many times…?

    I lost count. Neighbors have generally given up but new missionaries keep trying periodically. It’s their duty. They can’t allow themselves to let someone among them miss salvation. Once you understand their personal intentions, it becomes more bearable.

  966. @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack


    My little Ukrainian community in Phoenix
     
    LMAO, some homo S&M group is not "Ukrainian community" you dumb prick. There is no such thing. I have been to America many times all over and NEVER, ever heard anybody refer to "Ukrainian" community, neighbourhood, parade, Church or anything. It's as fake as a 12-legged Giraffe you POS. Since 2014,and mostly since last year is when 99.9% of Americans have heard of these "people"/psychiatric condition called Ukrainian.

    Russian German, Irish, Italian, Dutch, Jewish,Swedish, Fillapino, Cuban, Mexican,Japanese, Korean,Greek, Hungarian, Indian... even Welsh, Scottish, Armenian and others of these peoples you just hear from someone or see something that make clear these are longstanding diasporas and communities in US.

    Upto 2014, no American had heard of them. I am sure everybody else here can support my claims. How fake and pathetic an "ethnicity" do you have to be that nobody has heard of you? Even 2nd generation Poles in US, LOL

    Not one single settlement in America or North America named after ANY "Ukrainian" town or word. LMAO. What more proof they are fake do you want idiot? 100% of Americans think "ko" and "yuk" ending familia are stereotypical RUSSIAN names.

    As for that village idiot mother of yours - she probably didn't even call herself "Ukrainian" until Stalin created UN seat for ukrop SSR - Galician trash are the exact opposite of "fiercely proud" Ukrainians

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I’ve met Russians who now pretend to be Ukrainians abroad. Whatever you think about the past, the present is not it.

  967. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.

    If there are some evolutionary advantages for a gene, Nature itself will provide, killing those who lack it. Since every human being has some faulty genes, such genes in the end will surface. You need to read my comment no 917. here: the example of Mormon community where one of the MOST COMMON enzymes (fumarase) became faulty speaks for itself.

    Plus, the example from "Jurassic World Dominion" speaks not just about cloning but about CLONING TOGETHER WITH REMOVING FAULTY GENES.
    This is the real Holy Grail.

    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too. It is numbers game. Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like; it is both accepting and bringing suffering for ones (humans with faulty genes) to have others without faulty genes. In this sense, cousin marriages are eugenic marriages.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.

    It doesn’t seem too surprising they are interested in it, but HBD is not a culturally powerful force at the moment.

    I know Michael Woodley of Menie has studied the political impact of widespread cousin marriage in the Middle East, the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies. His work and the book by Ed Dutton Ivashka cited earlier are probably the place to start for references on this.

    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too.

    Iirc from reading Dutton’s book on Islam it is a relative advantage that has become apparent more recently. Besides religious belief, Dutton links it to IQ, because the link between fertility and IQ is quite well demonstrated.

    Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like.

    If thinking having two children is good and somewhere around a replacement level of TFR for a population is Nazi-like, I am Nazi-like. I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies
     
    An article I once read claimed it is like one disease - thalassemia (which is often an outcome of cousin marriage as it is coded by recessive genes) - partly protects you from malaria. So it is more like fighting fire with fire; it is not true evolutionary advantage since thalassemia can be deadly too.

    I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.
     
    For some reasons the West has imported the most cousin-marrying nations like Pakistanis and Kurds. Last year, I remember those Kurds insisting on crossing Polish border from Belarus; every family I heard of in media had a child with some genetic problem. I lost all sympathy to Kurds I once had, even though in the West they are kind of lionized, organizing their periodic demos to scream "Ocalan!", "Rojava!" on everyone around. But they have their own state, in all but name - Kurdistan Autonomy - which has lots of revenues from oil, but they are apparently unable to protest in their own country to force their gov to take care of them.

    You can see the direction things are going in
     
    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.

    https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    It was Yahia who cited the Dutton's book. I just agreed with him.

    , @Wokechoke
    @Coconuts

    I'm sorry this has happened. I mean, look at Sunak. There's No England Anymore.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_pWF4_-hM8&t=3s

  968. @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    If they ever forget the hatred some Russians have for them, merely for not wanting to be Russian, they need only ever look at Gerrard's comment history.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Well, G does get worked up, so we know he cares!

    He is also one of the commenters who brings some reality back into the discussion when a pro-Ukrainian/anti-Russia commenter goes off the rails and writes a bunch of reasonable sounding and highly misleading comments. This does happen, so the presence of the two different Ukraine-SMO perspectives at Unz is a nice combination. I doubt that it gives outsiders like me much real insight into the apparent clash of cultures, but a little is better than none.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Would you like to point out some of the "reality" in what he says? Or even just the parts that are not deranged antisocial weirdo rants?

    Replies: @QCIC

  969. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I agree, but by that point, I think that Russia may be so weak that everyone is fine with Ukraine taking back Crimea
     
    1. Nobody wants to see Russia totally humiliated
    2. The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea's civilian population
    3. The West doesn't want post war Ukraine to contain a Russophile 5th column

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Mikel

    The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population

    The West will not have any problem pretending that those crimes don’t exist, relativizing them or even accusing the Russians of being the perpetrators. That’s exactly what’s happened with the thousands of civilians killed by their own army in Donbas over the past years and our media didn’t even have the excuse of the barbaric Russian invasion that they now have. Our leaders may not want to risk a total humiliation of Russia but we can be certain that possible Ukrainian crimes against civilians in Crimea is totally out of their radar.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mikel

    Rosalia Zemlyachka a Ukie-Jew...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalia_Zemlyachka


    Zemlyachka was appointed secretary of the Crimean party committee in November 1920, when the last White Army left in the war, commanded by Baron Wrangel was evacuating the peninsula. Leaflets were dropped by aeroplane over Sevastopol, the last city held by the Whites, which offered an amnesty to those who surrendered to the Red Army. They signed in the name of the former commander-in-chief of the Imperial Army, General Aleksei Brusilov, who was persuaded to go to Crimea to supervise their surrender by the Deputy People's Commissar for War, Ephraim Sklyansky.

    Before Brusilov set out, a local decision was made to massacre those who had surrendered. The order to kill them was signed by Béla Kun, the head of the Crimean regional committee, Zemlyachka, and Semyon Dukelsky, the head of the Crimean branch of the Cheka. According to the historian Donald Rayfield, Kun and Zemlyachka were lovers, and she was "a Cheka sadist who tied the officers in pairs to planks and burned them alive in furnaces or drowned them in barges that she sank offshore. Estimates vary of the number killed, which may have been 70,000."

    ...was unknown to me before watching the movie "Sunstroke". Victoria Nuland could be quite easily a forgotten footnote of the Ukraine wars if Jewish historians get to cover their tribal tracks.

  970. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    Today, there really isn’t much of a distinction. Anglin is back on twitter, when you “follow” him you are reading his tweets.
     
    Sorry, you're unable to distinguish between my use of the word "follower" and someone who reads something, even after I've explained it.

    What, you are going to say the people who dress up, and give the salute? Seems a pretty marginal group
     
    Literally my point.

    Really totally incomparable to Islamic extremists in Europe, who have hundreds or thousands of mosques and are only tamped down by the surveillance state, AI, and thousands of agents.
     
    I was making a prediction about the future. Islamists have dug Islam's grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.

    People who denounce Anglin are generally denouncing his message, which is hyperbolic and satirical. I’m sure they understand that, but don’t like the message, hence, the desire to cast shade on him, though, if you consider the mainstream press, they are no less hyperbolic, monomaniacal, and “hate-filled.”
     
    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin. Get a standard sized ruler and notice that, between 1 inch and 12 inches, there are many other markings. So with most qualities.

    In effect you seem to be saying “I wouldn’t mind a few million irreligious Iranians in Europe.” It seems a very cosmopolitan outlook, with everything else being a qualifier, to act as an excuse for saying it. Certainly not a thing a native nationalist would say.
     
    I said I would mind it much less than millions of fanatically illiterate cousin-marrying and women-beating Kashmiris. Wouldn't you mind it much less too? In fact, I'd swap it for the current situation in a heartbeat.

    I may have what are often defined as racist preferences, but I have a lot of different types of preferences. For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist. And I'd question the sanity of anyone who wouldn't.

    Replies: @songbird

    Islamists have dug Islam’s grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.

    It is mainly one strain of Islam: Sunnism or perhaps Wahhabism, and there are many others. Not to mention, religions also have the capacity to morph further, and historically, there are are trends, like falling fertility, and development, which decrease terrorism. (BTW, globally Islamic terrorism is on the decline since 2014)

    [MORE]

    And that is supposing that terrorism even has some negative effect. I don’t think it is clear that videos taken off youtube for graphic violence will cause a lot of Muslims to renounce their faith. Besides, Mohammed was a warrior, who slaughtered the Banu Qurayza. Violence and iconoclasm aren’t really massive contradictions, apologists aside.

    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin.

    You might not like it, but, TBH, Anglin probably has a higher IQ than the average mainstream journalist of 2023. Ta-Nehisi Coates is such a one.

    As to sociopathy: Anglin doesn’t have any influence. He operates as a troll – by definition marginal. His message is not echoed endlessly and amplified and drilled into people’s brains. It is not broadcast five times a day on dozens of channels, so he engages in tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.

    The press has that influence and knows it, and they still operate in such a way that results in murder in the streets, riots, the destruction and theft of billions, and that is not counting the trillions of stolen wealth from taxes. Or the effect they’ve had on promoting gays and trannies, and open borders and the civil rights regime. Saying stuff like “Invade Iran!” They promote endless 24/7 slander against Europeans and men, and run defense and try to obfuscate any bad stories that go against their narrative, and you think they are not sociopathic? No, they are criminal.

    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you? His satirical take about Jewish power and intolerance? Or on feminists and gays? Rather, I’d say it would be a much healthier society, if these groups could actually be criticized and subjected to at least half the level of criticism they dish out, without people being immediately cancelled.

    Anyway, you should probably quit hate-reading Anglin, if it is actually gotten to the point where you think he is more harmful that the mainstream media. That’s an unhealthy delusion.

    For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist.

    Can you please avoid such unnecessary analogies in the future? There is no benefit to straw-manning child-rapists, unless you like disturbing people for fun.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    1. The Iranian governmental system will probably be fundamentally changed by 2024, and 100% certainly changed by 2030. This is because their religiosity is oppressive and is barely more than an excuse to be jerks.*

    2. What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now. The patterns of life are just too different. The transition may not have been immediate. It may also be obscured by a reaction. But the transition will come. What you hopefully have the maturity to not refer to as globohomo is usually just this fact manifesting itself.

    3. Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already! He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant. I do not regularly read his drivel, which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism, and any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised. Only the severely hurt and severely poisonous want anything to do with that sh*t. Don't believe me? Even the Nazis banned Der Sturmer, despite Hitler's personal connections to the founder, and Der Sturmer was half as hate-filled and sewer-born as the Daily Stormer cr*p. You think they wrote about how women need to be raped? And don't give me that "oh it is satire and humour" bullsh*t. Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.

    4. I didn't strawman you. I merely pointed out that race was far from everything. Even to the most committed racist, unless insane.

    *Political fanatics would benefit from understanding that most people are content with the fact that they don't actually know what politics would be best and don't therefore have confidence in their political opinion. This is because they are not fanatics and therefore possess epistemological humility. In other words, they are actually right! It also means that they will often prioritise following people who aren't creepy jerks, over people who are creepy jerks, or sociopaths, of otherwise personally objectionable, regardless of ideology. It therefore behooves political fanatics to act with compassion and kindness and try not to be obviously mentally dysfunctional.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    , @LatW
    @songbird


    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you?
     
    There's a lot to offend there, above all the utter lack of basic moral discipline (which is unattractive in a man). Also, it is quite transparent that he is doing it for the money (in the US one can actually make a living by being an online freak who gets enough attention).

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name. Any normie would look at that and say: "Oh, yuck, all these NS type of people are that disgusting?". And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case - his loquacity is only making things worse (it's good for his money making, but not good for the WN cause), a more Nordic or Germanic type of nationalist would be much more subdued and would never write the kinds of things he does. Forgive me for putting this out here, but it needs to be said. It's just not how a national socialist should behave. But of course he is not one.

    One such bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, so to speak. Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists? Who are mentally strong enough to not get into countless public scandals? It is lame when only people such as this Anglin guy get to be in the limelight, while the more decent ones end up being persecuted.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

  971. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @LatW


    Some say the one doing the Orthodox Christmas dive wasn’t him.
     
    I saw the video from a handheld camera at 6 or 7 feet. If that was not Putin it was Stanley Kubrick quality production. If I'm betting it was him.

    Body doubles are not really for close up shot of facial expression.

    The hockey videos would be much easier. That is not an activity for people past their 30th birthday. Yikes.

    Replies: @LatW

    I saw the video from a handheld camera at 6 or 7 feet. If that was not Putin it was Stanley Kubrick quality production. If I’m betting it was him.

    After I heard that it might be a double, I watched the video carefully and could’ve sworn it was him. And yet quite a few sources keep bringing up that he has doubles. Which there is nothing wrong with actually, as long as it doesn’t turn into some alternate reality type of thing.

    The hockey videos would be much easier. That is not an activity for people past their 30th birthday. Yikes.

    I think Luka still plays. But of course he is slow. Many Latvian men still play in their 40s and 50s, as amateur players for fun. In Russia, too, older guys play just for fun. Ice hockey is like second nature to quite a few Russian and Baltic men. But Putin was a bit of a poseur with the whole thing (they always allowed him to score).

    And of course he couldn’t do it in his current condition, he may have done it a few years back but he’s really changed in these last few years, has become noticeably frail (and coughing a lot), major changes happen in terms of aging from around 70-73. I’ve noticed it with my older relatives, they become suddenly very slow.

    Putin hardly travels now and sits at a very long table. I think the Covid isolation had a major effect on him, I wonder if he might have what they call long Covid, he has changed mentally as well.

  972. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Prigozhin is going nowhere. He has no power whatsoever except through Putin, which is why Putin keeps him around. He is entirely dependent. Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.

    I also note that Prigozhin, while undoubtedly cynical, is not a raving lunatic. He'll switch colours in line with power probably before almost anyone else even realises that the layout of power has changed. Will it save him when the men of the institutions assert their power and clean out the old regime? Maybe, or maybe he'll flee to one of those African countries that used his services and might have him? Or Iran. Or to Cuba? Or maybe Syria? I don't know which I'd pick for my retirement were I him, as it is betting a lot on them not selling him out, and they are not exactly run by the world's most trustworthy people.

    As for metaphysical help, I hope he gets some. It might appear demonic, but beauty, while not actually in the eye of the beholder, can often work out that way in practice. And there's really nothing to be afraid of.

    Replies: @LatW

    Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.

    That’s not a given, Kadyrov, too, is protected by Putin. He might even be safer in Moscow than Grozny. On his own in Chechnya, it wouldn’t be all that safe for him, his teip has betrayed their people, even though he does have his own army. He has tortured countless people in Chechnya and he is not that loved (to put it mildly).

    And, of course, Prigozhin will never hold a serious high level post (besides this one which is very high anyway). He has made some unseemly comments against the General Staff so may not be liked there. But eventually it will probably be the FSB who will decide these things.

    • Thanks: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest. Interestingly, both have made some comments recently that do not square that well with the way things are supposed to work in RusFed nowadays. The FSB might liquidate them, but it would destabilize the system.

    Replies: @LatW

  973. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.
     
    It doesn't seem too surprising they are interested in it, but HBD is not a culturally powerful force at the moment.

    I know Michael Woodley of Menie has studied the political impact of widespread cousin marriage in the Middle East, the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies. His work and the book by Ed Dutton Ivashka cited earlier are probably the place to start for references on this.


    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too.
     
    Iirc from reading Dutton's book on Islam it is a relative advantage that has become apparent more recently. Besides religious belief, Dutton links it to IQ, because the link between fertility and IQ is quite well demonstrated.

    Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like.
     
    If thinking having two children is good and somewhere around a replacement level of TFR for a population is Nazi-like, I am Nazi-like. I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies

    An article I once read claimed it is like one disease – thalassemia (which is often an outcome of cousin marriage as it is coded by recessive genes) – partly protects you from malaria. So it is more like fighting fire with fire; it is not true evolutionary advantage since thalassemia can be deadly too.

    I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    For some reasons the West has imported the most cousin-marrying nations like Pakistanis and Kurds. Last year, I remember those Kurds insisting on crossing Polish border from Belarus; every family I heard of in media had a child with some genetic problem. I lost all sympathy to Kurds I once had, even though in the West they are kind of lionized, organizing their periodic demos to scream “Ocalan!”, “Rojava!” on everyone around. But they have their own state, in all but name – Kurdistan Autonomy – which has lots of revenues from oil, but they are apparently unable to protest in their own country to force their gov to take care of them.

    You can see the direction things are going in

    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.

    https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.
     
    Peak oil? Lol! The 2000s want their totally discredited scare story back. Global energy demand will increase, but technology to improve energy production and resource extraction will improve faster.

    BP predicts that global energy demand will go up 75% by 2050, but that energy coming from oil and gas will likely shrink even in absolute terms. At the same, extraction processes will get substantially cheaper.

    Furthermore, this is all based on current trends and does not account for technological gamechangers, of which a number appear to be coming
    , @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff
     
    There's like 1,600 billion barrels of proven reserves (and that is not counting shale of which there is like 3,000 billion barrels in North America, alone.)

    Sixty years more of current consumption levels. (not including shale or other improvements in technology to make drilling more economical). Easily enough to totally destroy what is left of Western Europe, if oil is the only limiting factor. Hundreds of years for coal. Probably thousands for nuclear, and hydrocarbons can be made using both.

    Dysgenics and societal decay are probably bigger limiting factors.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  974. @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, G does get worked up, so we know he cares!

    He is also one of the commenters who brings some reality back into the discussion when a pro-Ukrainian/anti-Russia commenter goes off the rails and writes a bunch of reasonable sounding and highly misleading comments. This does happen, so the presence of the two different Ukraine-SMO perspectives at Unz is a nice combination. I doubt that it gives outsiders like me much real insight into the apparent clash of cultures, but a little is better than none.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Would you like to point out some of the “reality” in what he says? Or even just the parts that are not deranged antisocial weirdo rants?

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Leaves No Shadow

    No, but feel free to scroll through the archives.

    I recall various times he called out his 'nemesis' from Arizona and the comments steered the dialog in a more informative direction, believe it or not. Or maybe I just like that he calls bullshit on some of the Ukie stuff.

    His brusque style seems to offend Mr. Hack who reverts to juvenile name calling. This usually suggests the point went to the pro-Russia side.

    It might be more fun if they cussed each other out in Russian and Ukrainian.

  975. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.
     
    It doesn't seem too surprising they are interested in it, but HBD is not a culturally powerful force at the moment.

    I know Michael Woodley of Menie has studied the political impact of widespread cousin marriage in the Middle East, the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies. His work and the book by Ed Dutton Ivashka cited earlier are probably the place to start for references on this.


    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too.
     
    Iirc from reading Dutton's book on Islam it is a relative advantage that has become apparent more recently. Besides religious belief, Dutton links it to IQ, because the link between fertility and IQ is quite well demonstrated.

    Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like.
     
    If thinking having two children is good and somewhere around a replacement level of TFR for a population is Nazi-like, I am Nazi-like. I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    It was Yahia who cited the Dutton’s book. I just agreed with him.

  976. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Islamists have dug Islam’s grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.
     
    It is mainly one strain of Islam: Sunnism or perhaps Wahhabism, and there are many others. Not to mention, religions also have the capacity to morph further, and historically, there are are trends, like falling fertility, and development, which decrease terrorism. (BTW, globally Islamic terrorism is on the decline since 2014)

    And that is supposing that terrorism even has some negative effect. I don't think it is clear that videos taken off youtube for graphic violence will cause a lot of Muslims to renounce their faith. Besides, Mohammed was a warrior, who slaughtered the Banu Qurayza. Violence and iconoclasm aren't really massive contradictions, apologists aside.

    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin.
     
    You might not like it, but, TBH, Anglin probably has a higher IQ than the average mainstream journalist of 2023. Ta-Nehisi Coates is such a one.

    As to sociopathy: Anglin doesn't have any influence. He operates as a troll - by definition marginal. His message is not echoed endlessly and amplified and drilled into people's brains. It is not broadcast five times a day on dozens of channels, so he engages in tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.

    The press has that influence and knows it, and they still operate in such a way that results in murder in the streets, riots, the destruction and theft of billions, and that is not counting the trillions of stolen wealth from taxes. Or the effect they've had on promoting gays and trannies, and open borders and the civil rights regime. Saying stuff like "Invade Iran!" They promote endless 24/7 slander against Europeans and men, and run defense and try to obfuscate any bad stories that go against their narrative, and you think they are not sociopathic? No, they are criminal.

    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you? His satirical take about Jewish power and intolerance? Or on feminists and gays? Rather, I'd say it would be a much healthier society, if these groups could actually be criticized and subjected to at least half the level of criticism they dish out, without people being immediately cancelled.

    Anyway, you should probably quit hate-reading Anglin, if it is actually gotten to the point where you think he is more harmful that the mainstream media. That's an unhealthy delusion.

    For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist.
     
    Can you please avoid such unnecessary analogies in the future? There is no benefit to straw-manning child-rapists, unless you like disturbing people for fun.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    1. The Iranian governmental system will probably be fundamentally changed by 2024, and 100% certainly changed by 2030. This is because their religiosity is oppressive and is barely more than an excuse to be jerks.*

    2. What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now. The patterns of life are just too different. The transition may not have been immediate. It may also be obscured by a reaction. But the transition will come. What you hopefully have the maturity to not refer to as globohomo is usually just this fact manifesting itself.

    3. Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already! He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant. I do not regularly read his drivel, which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism, and any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised. Only the severely hurt and severely poisonous want anything to do with that sh*t. Don’t believe me? Even the Nazis banned Der Sturmer, despite Hitler’s personal connections to the founder, and Der Sturmer was half as hate-filled and sewer-born as the Daily Stormer cr*p. You think they wrote about how women need to be raped? And don’t give me that “oh it is satire and humour” bullsh*t. Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.

    4. I didn’t strawman you. I merely pointed out that race was far from everything. Even to the most committed racist, unless insane.

    *Political fanatics would benefit from understanding that most people are content with the fact that they don’t actually know what politics would be best and don’t therefore have confidence in their political opinion. This is because they are not fanatics and therefore possess epistemological humility. In other words, they are actually right! It also means that they will often prioritise following people who aren’t creepy jerks, over people who are creepy jerks, or sociopaths, of otherwise personally objectionable, regardless of ideology. It therefore behooves political fanatics to act with compassion and kindness and try not to be obviously mentally dysfunctional.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now.
     
    Islamic societies had an equal or higher level of basic literary than their Western counterparts until probably the first industrial revolution. And life in these societies was not less affluent than in the West back then.

    The problem with Islam (if we can even call it a problem) is entirely different. Islam is directed towards creating a pacified existence filled with consentement. It is the antithesis of Fausatian insatisfaction which is the real psychological motor of progess.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already!
     
    I've probably read him less than you. I just like being contrarian.

    He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant.
     
    Don't confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity. It requires theory of mind to be a troll. He is trying to set people off, and does.

    which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism
     
    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.

    any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised.
     
    maybe, you are making too much of him? He is just one troll. And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized, and that has absolutely nothing to do with him.

    You think they wrote about how women need to be raped?
     
    Anglin is edgy, so he probably doesn't have much of a female audience. Perhaps, that results in a bit of MGTOW, but AFAIK, he is mainly lampooning feminism (sometimes effectively), and not telling people to swear off women. "Rape" is actually pretty common gamer parlance, or was, before they introduced totalitarian speech controls.

    Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.
     
    Have you seen Anglin's portrait on twitter? It is not the picture of a man without a sense of humor.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Leaves No Shadow

  977. @LatW
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Even Kadyrov can at least possibly retreat and hide in Chechnya, should the Russian state decide to dispose of him.
     
    That's not a given, Kadyrov, too, is protected by Putin. He might even be safer in Moscow than Grozny. On his own in Chechnya, it wouldn't be all that safe for him, his teip has betrayed their people, even though he does have his own army. He has tortured countless people in Chechnya and he is not that loved (to put it mildly).

    And, of course, Prigozhin will never hold a serious high level post (besides this one which is very high anyway). He has made some unseemly comments against the General Staff so may not be liked there. But eventually it will probably be the FSB who will decide these things.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest. Interestingly, both have made some comments recently that do not square that well with the way things are supposed to work in RusFed nowadays. The FSB might liquidate them, but it would destabilize the system.

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.
     
    I don't disagree with you that this isn't possible but I don't think it is likely (namely, that Prigozhin or Kadyrov could become the president or Minister of Defense or something like that, at most they could retain some of their influence). And, yes, they already have very high status.

    If RusFed crumbles, then of course nothing is out of question (although I sense that in this case someone like Prigozhin is more likely to not stay alive, although, as sudden death noted, he is now fulfulling the role of Zhirik), but I feel that groups such as Rosgvardia, the General Staff and the FSB are much stronger. Of course, the two are connected to these institutions but I still believe these institutions are able to produce much more "normal" candidates. I refuse to believe that they are not capable of this. If not, then things are truly sad.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  978. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies
     
    An article I once read claimed it is like one disease - thalassemia (which is often an outcome of cousin marriage as it is coded by recessive genes) - partly protects you from malaria. So it is more like fighting fire with fire; it is not true evolutionary advantage since thalassemia can be deadly too.

    I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.
     
    For some reasons the West has imported the most cousin-marrying nations like Pakistanis and Kurds. Last year, I remember those Kurds insisting on crossing Polish border from Belarus; every family I heard of in media had a child with some genetic problem. I lost all sympathy to Kurds I once had, even though in the West they are kind of lionized, organizing their periodic demos to scream "Ocalan!", "Rojava!" on everyone around. But they have their own state, in all but name - Kurdistan Autonomy - which has lots of revenues from oil, but they are apparently unable to protest in their own country to force their gov to take care of them.

    You can see the direction things are going in
     
    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.

    https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.

    Peak oil? Lol! The 2000s want their totally discredited scare story back. Global energy demand will increase, but technology to improve energy production and resource extraction will improve faster.

    BP predicts that global energy demand will go up 75% by 2050, but that energy coming from oil and gas will likely shrink even in absolute terms. At the same, extraction processes will get substantially cheaper.

    Furthermore, this is all based on current trends and does not account for technological gamechangers, of which a number appear to be coming

  979. @Mikel
    @Greasy William


    The West does not want to be responsible for the inevitable Ukrainian war crimes against Crimea’s civilian population
     
    The West will not have any problem pretending that those crimes don't exist, relativizing them or even accusing the Russians of being the perpetrators. That's exactly what's happened with the thousands of civilians killed by their own army in Donbas over the past years and our media didn't even have the excuse of the barbaric Russian invasion that they now have. Our leaders may not want to risk a total humiliation of Russia but we can be certain that possible Ukrainian crimes against civilians in Crimea is totally out of their radar.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Rosalia Zemlyachka a Ukie-Jew…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalia_Zemlyachka

    Zemlyachka was appointed secretary of the Crimean party committee in November 1920, when the last White Army left in the war, commanded by Baron Wrangel was evacuating the peninsula. Leaflets were dropped by aeroplane over Sevastopol, the last city held by the Whites, which offered an amnesty to those who surrendered to the Red Army. They signed in the name of the former commander-in-chief of the Imperial Army, General Aleksei Brusilov, who was persuaded to go to Crimea to supervise their surrender by the Deputy People’s Commissar for War, Ephraim Sklyansky.

    Before Brusilov set out, a local decision was made to massacre those who had surrendered. The order to kill them was signed by Béla Kun, the head of the Crimean regional committee, Zemlyachka, and Semyon Dukelsky, the head of the Crimean branch of the Cheka. According to the historian Donald Rayfield, Kun and Zemlyachka were lovers, and she was “a Cheka sadist who tied the officers in pairs to planks and burned them alive in furnaces or drowned them in barges that she sank offshore. Estimates vary of the number killed, which may have been 70,000.”

    …was unknown to me before watching the movie “Sunstroke”. Victoria Nuland could be quite easily a forgotten footnote of the Ukraine wars if Jewish historians get to cover their tribal tracks.

  980. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts


    the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies
     
    An article I once read claimed it is like one disease - thalassemia (which is often an outcome of cousin marriage as it is coded by recessive genes) - partly protects you from malaria. So it is more like fighting fire with fire; it is not true evolutionary advantage since thalassemia can be deadly too.

    I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.
     
    For some reasons the West has imported the most cousin-marrying nations like Pakistanis and Kurds. Last year, I remember those Kurds insisting on crossing Polish border from Belarus; every family I heard of in media had a child with some genetic problem. I lost all sympathy to Kurds I once had, even though in the West they are kind of lionized, organizing their periodic demos to scream "Ocalan!", "Rojava!" on everyone around. But they have their own state, in all but name - Kurdistan Autonomy - which has lots of revenues from oil, but they are apparently unable to protest in their own country to force their gov to take care of them.

    You can see the direction things are going in
     
    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff; that will be the end of mass immigration as this will be the end of cheap travel, and solar planes are not on the horizon.

    https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird

    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff

    There’s like 1,600 billion barrels of proven reserves (and that is not counting shale of which there is like 3,000 billion barrels in North America, alone.)

    Sixty years more of current consumption levels. (not including shale or other improvements in technology to make drilling more economical). Easily enough to totally destroy what is left of Western Europe, if oil is the only limiting factor. Hundreds of years for coal. Probably thousands for nuclear, and hydrocarbons can be made using both.

    Dysgenics and societal decay are probably bigger limiting factors.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Proven reserves are not recoverable reserves.

    Anyway, it is all about EROI (Energy Recovered on Energy Invested). If you need more energy to extract energy than you get useful energy from extracting, it is game over.

    EROI of oil has dramatically fallen, from 100-80 on early Pennsylvania fields years ago to 10-8 on shale now. It is reflected in prices, in reducing the Main Street share of economy in favour of Wall Street etc. It is important to grasp this is energy problem, not financial problem.

    http://euanmearns.com/eroei-for-beginners/
    The greatest risk to human society today is the notion that we can somehow replace high ERoEI fossil fuels with new renewable energies like solar PV and biofuels. These exist within the energy web because they are subsidised by the co-existing high ERoEI fossil fuels. The subsidy occurs at multiple levels from fossil fuels used to create the renewable devices and biofuels to fossil fuels providing the load balancing services. Fossil fuels provide the monetary wealth to pay the subsidies.

    Anyway, oil production (crude oil) has been oscillating around 80 Mb/day for some time already. We are on plateau.

    Replies: @QCIC

  981. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I see cousin marriage invaded HBD too. Powerful forces support it, certainly.
     
    It doesn't seem too surprising they are interested in it, but HBD is not a culturally powerful force at the moment.

    I know Michael Woodley of Menie has studied the political impact of widespread cousin marriage in the Middle East, the info about disease resistance also came from him but I guess it is based on other studies. His work and the book by Ed Dutton Ivashka cited earlier are probably the place to start for references on this.


    High fertility is due to cultural stress on producing cousins for other cousins to marry, and to offset the ill progeny too.
     
    Iirc from reading Dutton's book on Islam it is a relative advantage that has become apparent more recently. Besides religious belief, Dutton links it to IQ, because the link between fertility and IQ is quite well demonstrated.

    Worshipping fertility as such is a bit Nazi-like.
     
    If thinking having two children is good and somewhere around a replacement level of TFR for a population is Nazi-like, I am Nazi-like. I live in a small rural town in the far North of England, there are Kurds, Syrians and Pakistanis living here already. You can see the direction things are going in.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    I’m sorry this has happened. I mean, look at Sunak. There’s No England Anymore.

  982. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Islamists have dug Islam’s grave. Their behaviour is caught in full motion and colour video. No one sane and able to dissociate themselves from it, which includes future potential Muslims, will not do so.
     
    It is mainly one strain of Islam: Sunnism or perhaps Wahhabism, and there are many others. Not to mention, religions also have the capacity to morph further, and historically, there are are trends, like falling fertility, and development, which decrease terrorism. (BTW, globally Islamic terrorism is on the decline since 2014)

    And that is supposing that terrorism even has some negative effect. I don't think it is clear that videos taken off youtube for graphic violence will cause a lot of Muslims to renounce their faith. Besides, Mohammed was a warrior, who slaughtered the Banu Qurayza. Violence and iconoclasm aren't really massive contradictions, apologists aside.

    The mainstream press are much less stupid and sociopathic than Anglin.
     
    You might not like it, but, TBH, Anglin probably has a higher IQ than the average mainstream journalist of 2023. Ta-Nehisi Coates is such a one.

    As to sociopathy: Anglin doesn't have any influence. He operates as a troll - by definition marginal. His message is not echoed endlessly and amplified and drilled into people's brains. It is not broadcast five times a day on dozens of channels, so he engages in tongue-in-cheek hyperbole.

    The press has that influence and knows it, and they still operate in such a way that results in murder in the streets, riots, the destruction and theft of billions, and that is not counting the trillions of stolen wealth from taxes. Or the effect they've had on promoting gays and trannies, and open borders and the civil rights regime. Saying stuff like "Invade Iran!" They promote endless 24/7 slander against Europeans and men, and run defense and try to obfuscate any bad stories that go against their narrative, and you think they are not sociopathic? No, they are criminal.

    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you? His satirical take about Jewish power and intolerance? Or on feminists and gays? Rather, I'd say it would be a much healthier society, if these groups could actually be criticized and subjected to at least half the level of criticism they dish out, without people being immediately cancelled.

    Anyway, you should probably quit hate-reading Anglin, if it is actually gotten to the point where you think he is more harmful that the mainstream media. That's an unhealthy delusion.

    For example, I would obviously rather be friends and neighbours with Thomas Sowell than I would a white child-rapist.
     
    Can you please avoid such unnecessary analogies in the future? There is no benefit to straw-manning child-rapists, unless you like disturbing people for fun.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you?

    There’s a lot to offend there, above all the utter lack of basic moral discipline (which is unattractive in a man). Also, it is quite transparent that he is doing it for the money (in the US one can actually make a living by being an online freak who gets enough attention).

    [MORE]

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name. Any normie would look at that and say: “Oh, yuck, all these NS type of people are that disgusting?”. And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case – his loquacity is only making things worse (it’s good for his money making, but not good for the WN cause), a more Nordic or Germanic type of nationalist would be much more subdued and would never write the kinds of things he does. Forgive me for putting this out here, but it needs to be said. It’s just not how a national socialist should behave. But of course he is not one.

    One such bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, so to speak. Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists? Who are mentally strong enough to not get into countless public scandals? It is lame when only people such as this Anglin guy get to be in the limelight, while the more decent ones end up being persecuted.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    Anglin live in Lagos Nigeria.

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case
     
    Honestly, had no idea about the connection. Ireland has quite a diversity of surnames (I'd guess more than China), and it is hard to recognize a lot of them as being particularly Irish, due to Anglicization (sounds like Anglin). I went to school with several people that I didn't realize had an Irish name, partly due to the foreign looks of those with Sicilian blood, in an inclusive Catholic identity. (there are even Irish names that sound Italian, like "Costello", which also is an Italian name) But also some fair ones, where it just didn't sound Irish to me - and in fact most names would sound quite different in their original Irish, my own included.

    his loquacity is only making things worse
     
    IMO, this is just a stereotype. I'm not offended by it. (Why would I be?) But I don't think it is true. (and also, I doubt he is pure stock) My father's people were pretty shy. The hereditary families of poets - which would have been interesting to test for traits of fluidity - were admixed, when they lost their patrons.

    Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists?
     
    You have to be kind of crazy to put yourself out there, especially in America, where people will show up at your door and attack you. I can think of some figures, but the ones with public identities need to be very careful of what they say. This means that the stuff they say is pretty boring and tends to be about the original American mythos. Unlike some here, I have no innate hostility to it, but, still, it's kind of hard to see the value in it (since its core seems to be idealizing flawed political figures and systems which failed), and not instead to want to look to some broader and less ephemeral European identity that bridges the oceans.

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name.
     
    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don't think we should disregard trolling totally.

    Anyway, IMO, this is more an issue to due with mass propaganda. Lots of propaganda against it, and not any for it. One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.

    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture, but I don't think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that. Maybe, you see more in EE, but there seems to be hardly anything in Western Europe or America. (The few Western European movies I have seen, seem to have smuggled blacks in quite early). America has been totally geographically captured - so you can't even say that there are places without blacks anymore, and set a story there. Where there is one within fifty miles, they need to be in it. Probably true of Western Europe, at this point.

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn't afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don't have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.

    Replies: @LatW

  983. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    1. The Iranian governmental system will probably be fundamentally changed by 2024, and 100% certainly changed by 2030. This is because their religiosity is oppressive and is barely more than an excuse to be jerks.*

    2. What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now. The patterns of life are just too different. The transition may not have been immediate. It may also be obscured by a reaction. But the transition will come. What you hopefully have the maturity to not refer to as globohomo is usually just this fact manifesting itself.

    3. Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already! He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant. I do not regularly read his drivel, which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism, and any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised. Only the severely hurt and severely poisonous want anything to do with that sh*t. Don't believe me? Even the Nazis banned Der Sturmer, despite Hitler's personal connections to the founder, and Der Sturmer was half as hate-filled and sewer-born as the Daily Stormer cr*p. You think they wrote about how women need to be raped? And don't give me that "oh it is satire and humour" bullsh*t. Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.

    4. I didn't strawman you. I merely pointed out that race was far from everything. Even to the most committed racist, unless insane.

    *Political fanatics would benefit from understanding that most people are content with the fact that they don't actually know what politics would be best and don't therefore have confidence in their political opinion. This is because they are not fanatics and therefore possess epistemological humility. In other words, they are actually right! It also means that they will often prioritise following people who aren't creepy jerks, over people who are creepy jerks, or sociopaths, of otherwise personally objectionable, regardless of ideology. It therefore behooves political fanatics to act with compassion and kindness and try not to be obviously mentally dysfunctional.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now.

    Islamic societies had an equal or higher level of basic literary than their Western counterparts until probably the first industrial revolution. And life in these societies was not less affluent than in the West back then.

    The problem with Islam (if we can even call it a problem) is entirely different. Islam is directed towards creating a pacified existence filled with consentement. It is the antithesis of Fausatian insatisfaction which is the real psychological motor of progess.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    Sorry for all the typos. Should've typed contentment instead of consentement and of course Faustian instead of Fausatian.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    So they were mostly illiterate lol

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  984. @LatW
    @songbird


    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you?
     
    There's a lot to offend there, above all the utter lack of basic moral discipline (which is unattractive in a man). Also, it is quite transparent that he is doing it for the money (in the US one can actually make a living by being an online freak who gets enough attention).

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name. Any normie would look at that and say: "Oh, yuck, all these NS type of people are that disgusting?". And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case - his loquacity is only making things worse (it's good for his money making, but not good for the WN cause), a more Nordic or Germanic type of nationalist would be much more subdued and would never write the kinds of things he does. Forgive me for putting this out here, but it needs to be said. It's just not how a national socialist should behave. But of course he is not one.

    One such bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, so to speak. Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists? Who are mentally strong enough to not get into countless public scandals? It is lame when only people such as this Anglin guy get to be in the limelight, while the more decent ones end up being persecuted.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    Anglin live in Lagos Nigeria.

  985. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest. Interestingly, both have made some comments recently that do not square that well with the way things are supposed to work in RusFed nowadays. The FSB might liquidate them, but it would destabilize the system.

    Replies: @LatW

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.

    I don’t disagree with you that this isn’t possible but I don’t think it is likely (namely, that Prigozhin or Kadyrov could become the president or Minister of Defense or something like that, at most they could retain some of their influence). And, yes, they already have very high status.

    If RusFed crumbles, then of course nothing is out of question (although I sense that in this case someone like Prigozhin is more likely to not stay alive, although, as sudden death noted, he is now fulfulling the role of Zhirik), but I feel that groups such as Rosgvardia, the General Staff and the FSB are much stronger. Of course, the two are connected to these institutions but I still believe these institutions are able to produce much more “normal” candidates. I refuse to believe that they are not capable of this. If not, then things are truly sad.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    If USSR wouldn't have crumbled, Putin wouldn't be much today. And of course Kadyrov, Shoigu and Prigozhin wouldn't be known at all outside of their immediate circle. Social dislocation provides opportunities. And getting to the top doesn't mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LatW

  986. @Leaves No Shadow
    @QCIC

    Would you like to point out some of the "reality" in what he says? Or even just the parts that are not deranged antisocial weirdo rants?

    Replies: @QCIC

    No, but feel free to scroll through the archives.

    I recall various times he called out his ‘nemesis’ from Arizona and the comments steered the dialog in a more informative direction, believe it or not. Or maybe I just like that he calls bullshit on some of the Ukie stuff.

    His brusque style seems to offend Mr. Hack who reverts to juvenile name calling. This usually suggests the point went to the pro-Russia side.

    It might be more fun if they cussed each other out in Russian and Ukrainian.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  987. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now.
     
    Islamic societies had an equal or higher level of basic literary than their Western counterparts until probably the first industrial revolution. And life in these societies was not less affluent than in the West back then.

    The problem with Islam (if we can even call it a problem) is entirely different. Islam is directed towards creating a pacified existence filled with consentement. It is the antithesis of Fausatian insatisfaction which is the real psychological motor of progess.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry for all the typos. Should’ve typed contentment instead of consentement and of course Faustian instead of Fausatian.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    No worries. Muslims didn't have the Faustian spirit because the majority of Islam lacks any sort of spiritual dimension, it seems. Aaron B's Sufis notwithstanding. And you can't make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don't even know it.

    Not that there is a devil as in something "bad." Just what people don't understand.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

  988. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    1. The Iranian governmental system will probably be fundamentally changed by 2024, and 100% certainly changed by 2030. This is because their religiosity is oppressive and is barely more than an excuse to be jerks.*

    2. What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now. The patterns of life are just too different. The transition may not have been immediate. It may also be obscured by a reaction. But the transition will come. What you hopefully have the maturity to not refer to as globohomo is usually just this fact manifesting itself.

    3. Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already! He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant. I do not regularly read his drivel, which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism, and any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised. Only the severely hurt and severely poisonous want anything to do with that sh*t. Don't believe me? Even the Nazis banned Der Sturmer, despite Hitler's personal connections to the founder, and Der Sturmer was half as hate-filled and sewer-born as the Daily Stormer cr*p. You think they wrote about how women need to be raped? And don't give me that "oh it is satire and humour" bullsh*t. Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.

    4. I didn't strawman you. I merely pointed out that race was far from everything. Even to the most committed racist, unless insane.

    *Political fanatics would benefit from understanding that most people are content with the fact that they don't actually know what politics would be best and don't therefore have confidence in their political opinion. This is because they are not fanatics and therefore possess epistemological humility. In other words, they are actually right! It also means that they will often prioritise following people who aren't creepy jerks, over people who are creepy jerks, or sociopaths, of otherwise personally objectionable, regardless of ideology. It therefore behooves political fanatics to act with compassion and kindness and try not to be obviously mentally dysfunctional.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already!

    I’ve probably read him less than you. I just like being contrarian.

    He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant.

    Don’t confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity. It requires theory of mind to be a troll. He is trying to set people off, and does.

    [MORE]

    which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism

    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.

    any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised.

    maybe, you are making too much of him? He is just one troll. And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized, and that has absolutely nothing to do with him.

    You think they wrote about how women need to be raped?

    Anglin is edgy, so he probably doesn’t have much of a female audience. Perhaps, that results in a bit of MGTOW, but AFAIK, he is mainly lampooning feminism (sometimes effectively), and not telling people to swear off women. “Rape” is actually pretty common gamer parlance, or was, before they introduced totalitarian speech controls.

    Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.

    Have you seen Anglin’s portrait on twitter? It is not the picture of a man without a sense of humor.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    It requires theory of mind to be a troll.
     
    Very good. Is that an original? I like to know who I am stealing from. : )
    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    Don’t confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity.
     
    Don't confuse being a sociopath with a lack of manners or being a troll. A sociopath displays no awareness of what drives him and has a heavily distorted view of the world, which serves him by rationalising his unpleasant self-harming behaviour.

    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.
     
    Coates is an excellent writer who communicates what is in his head through the lossy medium of words without loss. This is a sublime skill. So, even though what he communicates is his own neuroticism and not trans-subjective reality, he makes it into a pseudo reality through his intense understanding of his neuroticism and ability to communicate it.

    Anglin merely throws a bunch of incoherent psychosis on the page for his Cluster B followers. He's been phoning it in for years. And Cluster Bs will generally just follow the person who most devalues those they are jealous of and who shows the least insight.

    Coates is superior to that like a healthy 40 year old is superior to an unhealthy 4 year old in mental function.

    And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized,
     
    Borders, hard work and family are all part of the mainstream. Just because they are not emphasised as much as you would like, doesn't mean they are rejected. Try going to another developed country illegally. It'll be near infinitely harder than it would have been in 1900. Please do not distort reality to devalue those you are jealous of. Yes, this is just an ordinary amount of it, but the risk is that you become totally unmoored.

    Replies: @songbird

  989. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.
     
    I don't disagree with you that this isn't possible but I don't think it is likely (namely, that Prigozhin or Kadyrov could become the president or Minister of Defense or something like that, at most they could retain some of their influence). And, yes, they already have very high status.

    If RusFed crumbles, then of course nothing is out of question (although I sense that in this case someone like Prigozhin is more likely to not stay alive, although, as sudden death noted, he is now fulfulling the role of Zhirik), but I feel that groups such as Rosgvardia, the General Staff and the FSB are much stronger. Of course, the two are connected to these institutions but I still believe these institutions are able to produce much more "normal" candidates. I refuse to believe that they are not capable of this. If not, then things are truly sad.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    If USSR wouldn’t have crumbled, Putin wouldn’t be much today. And of course Kadyrov, Shoigu and Prigozhin wouldn’t be known at all outside of their immediate circle. Social dislocation provides opportunities. And getting to the top doesn’t mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/The_Russian_Empire_at_it%27s_greatest_extent%21.png

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @QCIC

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    If USSR wouldn’t have crumbled, Putin wouldn’t be much today.
     
    No, the KPSS had a rigid structure so the environment there wouldn't have been as opportunistic. Putin wouldn't have been able to climb to the very top.

    That said, even after Yeltsin, there could've been an alternate path. Yeltsin may have chosen someone else, and, while he wanted to preserve his family, Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind. Granted, in that case he should've carried out a full lustration of the KGB (if not full, then significant).

    But I'm loath to criticize him, his circumstances were much tougher.

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.
     
    Not Kadyrov definitely, since he was a nationalist in the beginning (fought with his dad against the Russians at age 17). He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course, and even during the Soviet times he could have, hypothetically, become an active agent of Moscow (remember that Dzohar Dudayev was a high ranking officer in the Soviet army), but I would be willing to give him some slack, since his people were almost decimated (losing one third is something quite incomprehensible to Europeans, the Chechens had limited options at the time, thus I would even forgive him, the Chechen people, on the other hand, I don't expect to).

    Prigozhin would be in prison, possibly a blatniy in prison, there is no way he would be allowed to have a proper career in the SU. Too opportunistic, too entrepreneurial, too criminal (he lured youths into a gang, that's pretty serious not to mention sinister). He wouldn't be allowed to accrue such wealth (none of the heads of the party even were truly rich).

    Social dislocation provides opportunities.
     
    Yes. We spoke about this briefly. The thing is, the SU provided social ladders for different nationalities, so did the Russian Empire. I have nothing against this, it is an attractive option, but I value those who give their lives to their own higher.

    And getting to the top doesn’t mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.
     
    Absolutely, although Nestor Makhno did have his own state for a while and he is still considered a kind of a hero. His place in history is very solid. But of course there was no structure there to make it long term, nor was he the type to hold it out for too long, too anarchistic, too passionate. I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more "systemic" or "normal" than Prigozhin. Although Prigozhin's ratings have risen in these recent months due to all his activity. A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian. But I may be wrong. Things are really unpredictable and different now, from we've known all these decades.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  990. “I’ve met Russians who now pretend to be Ukrainians abroad.”

    Okay Rosa Zelkind…I mean…Rosalia Zemlyachka, sure thing. I’ve met Ukrainian Jews who claimed to be Russians when abroad, Rosa Zelkind did after her banishment from the Empire. Particularly in New York. Now they pretend to be Ukies for Chabadathon bucks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalia_Zemlyachka

    “Whatever you think about the past, the present is not it.”

    Oh I don’t know about that. You Zhids have a long track record of having double identities. I’m sure Zelkind’s co-ethnics are gleefully planning the repeat of the Massacre of the Wrangelites. Past is prologue.

    “Strange are thine Ways oh Lord, that the fate of hundreds of Russian officers are decided by two Zhids.” 00:26:26 Captain/Ritmeister

    https://tubitv.com/movies/685368/sunstroke

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Wokechoke

    There are still about a dozen of public places in RF, mostly streets, named in Zemlyachka's honor and not a single one in current UA, but you keep enthusiastically rooting for that system to subjugate the one, which is not adoring her;)

    But guess, then it could be said that only globohomos wil not adore pretty woman, heh


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Rozalija_Zalkind.jpg

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke

  991. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already!
     
    I've probably read him less than you. I just like being contrarian.

    He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant.
     
    Don't confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity. It requires theory of mind to be a troll. He is trying to set people off, and does.

    which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism
     
    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.

    any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised.
     
    maybe, you are making too much of him? He is just one troll. And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized, and that has absolutely nothing to do with him.

    You think they wrote about how women need to be raped?
     
    Anglin is edgy, so he probably doesn't have much of a female audience. Perhaps, that results in a bit of MGTOW, but AFAIK, he is mainly lampooning feminism (sometimes effectively), and not telling people to swear off women. "Rape" is actually pretty common gamer parlance, or was, before they introduced totalitarian speech controls.

    Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.
     
    Have you seen Anglin's portrait on twitter? It is not the picture of a man without a sense of humor.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Leaves No Shadow

    It requires theory of mind to be a troll.

    Very good. Is that an original? I like to know who I am stealing from. : )

    • Thanks: songbird
    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  992. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    If USSR wouldn't have crumbled, Putin wouldn't be much today. And of course Kadyrov, Shoigu and Prigozhin wouldn't be known at all outside of their immediate circle. Social dislocation provides opportunities. And getting to the top doesn't mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LatW

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.
     
    Emil, you have just made me realize that since the day they sold Alaska and vacated Fort Ross, Russia didn't relent getting smaller. Sad...

    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon. Although, I believe the US were recently beefing up the level of readiness of their nuclear deterrence, so perhaps:

    https://youtube.com/shorts/KZImOetgbBQ?feature=share

    Replies: @S

    , @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?
     
    Massive tweets barrages are incredibly resource intensive. Since that has been scaled back I can get to ~900 before things begin to bog on my obsolete mobile device.

    I have been asking for new OT threads as they slow. I posted a request for 209 here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5811039

    Hopefully Mr. Unz will launch a new OT in the AM (Pacific Coast U.S. Time Zone).

    Good night all.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    P.S. Congratulations to the proud American Indian Warrior Leaders for over coming those Philadelphia Bums, Squatters, and Vandals.

    As a earned reward -- I suggest permanently relocating the Liberty Bell from Sh!tadelphia to a genuine redoubt of American tradition. Kansas City BBQ and The Liberty Bell is a glorious match.

    , @QCIC
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Russia is very far North and this is an essential part of her geopolitical core in my opinion.

    See the map of permafrost here:

    https://www.nornickel.com/sustainability/climate-change/permafrost/

  993. @Wokechoke
    "I’ve met Russians who now pretend to be Ukrainians abroad."

    Okay Rosa Zelkind...I mean...Rosalia Zemlyachka, sure thing. I've met Ukrainian Jews who claimed to be Russians when abroad, Rosa Zelkind did after her banishment from the Empire. Particularly in New York. Now they pretend to be Ukies for Chabadathon bucks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalia_Zemlyachka

    "Whatever you think about the past, the present is not it."

    Oh I don't know about that. You Zhids have a long track record of having double identities. I'm sure Zelkind's co-ethnics are gleefully planning the repeat of the Massacre of the Wrangelites. Past is prologue.

    "Strange are thine Ways oh Lord, that the fate of hundreds of Russian officers are decided by two Zhids." 00:26:26 Captain/Ritmeister


    https://tubitv.com/movies/685368/sunstroke

    Replies: @sudden death

    There are still about a dozen of public places in RF, mostly streets, named in Zemlyachka’s honor and not a single one in current UA, but you keep enthusiastically rooting for that system to subjugate the one, which is not adoring her;)

    But guess, then it could be said that only globohomos wil not adore pretty woman, heh

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    Not to worry you've got (((Zelenskyy))) and (((Nuland))) and (((Sullivan))) and (((Blinken))) now.

    , @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    A more serious counterpoint. We can talk about oppressive systems. Europe and the EU are clearly under a form of occupation by the Jews. There's a very good case that Mattei was murdered as a part of Gladio.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Mattei

    "Mattei enlarged and reorganized it into the National Fuel Trust (Italian: Ente Nazionale Idrocarburi, ENI). Under his direction, ENI negotiated important oil concessions in the Middle East as well as a significant trade agreement with the Soviet Union, which helped break the oligopoly of the "Seven Sisters" that dominated the mid-20th-century oil industry. He also introduced the principle whereby the country that owned exploited oil reserves received 75% of the profits."

    This made the guy a marked man.

    "Mattei, who became a powerful figure in Italy, was a member of Christian Democracy and of the Italian Parliament from 1948 to 1953. Mattei made ENI a powerful company, so much so that Italians called it "the state within the state". He died in a plane crash in 1962, likely caused by a bomb in the plane, although it has never been established which group might have been responsible for his death. The unsolved death of Mattei was the subject of an award-winning film The Mattei Affair by Francesco Rosi in 1972, with Mattei portrayed by Gian Maria Volonté. Along with Vittorio Valletta of Fiat S.p.A., he is regarded among the best Italian managers of the 20th century."

    The longer these bombings have gone unsolved the more the likelihood that Bignoses did it. I find it amazing that Gerhard Schroeder hasn't been whacked given what was done to Mattei.

    systems of oppression...

  994. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/The_Russian_Empire_at_it%27s_greatest_extent%21.png

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @QCIC

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    Emil, you have just made me realize that since the day they sold Alaska and vacated Fort Ross, Russia didn’t relent getting smaller. Sad…

    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon. Although, I believe the US were recently beefing up the level of readiness of their nuclear deterrence, so perhaps:

    https://youtube.com/shorts/KZImOetgbBQ?feature=share

    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon.
     
    Three 'objects' (at least) have now been shot down, besides the 'Chinese spy balloon'

    I heard today (Sunday) something like an hour long press conference involving high level US security officials. The media is playing up (somewhat subtly for the moment) the possible 'UFO' aspect, as in 'extra-terrestrial'. Even this high level official, when asked, said he 'couldn't rule out' extra-terrestrial origin of these 'objects', as they didn't know what they were yet.

    We'll see how this plays out.

    As it is, so far, I'm getting some vibes of Orson Welles 1938 'War of the Worlds' radio broadcast, which created a certain amount of very real hysteria.

    Yes, of course there are people who would fake this kind of thing for personal or collective gain.

    Welles did.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(1938_radio_drama)

    https://youtu.be/KqztEQmc6IE



    https://youtu.be/gGTRdpW8oZA

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  995. @sudden death
    @Wokechoke

    There are still about a dozen of public places in RF, mostly streets, named in Zemlyachka's honor and not a single one in current UA, but you keep enthusiastically rooting for that system to subjugate the one, which is not adoring her;)

    But guess, then it could be said that only globohomos wil not adore pretty woman, heh


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Rozalija_Zalkind.jpg

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke

    Not to worry you’ve got (((Zelenskyy))) and (((Nuland))) and (((Sullivan))) and (((Blinken))) now.

  996. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    If USSR wouldn't have crumbled, Putin wouldn't be much today. And of course Kadyrov, Shoigu and Prigozhin wouldn't be known at all outside of their immediate circle. Social dislocation provides opportunities. And getting to the top doesn't mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @LatW

    If USSR wouldn’t have crumbled, Putin wouldn’t be much today.

    No, the KPSS had a rigid structure so the environment there wouldn’t have been as opportunistic. Putin wouldn’t have been able to climb to the very top.

    That said, even after Yeltsin, there could’ve been an alternate path. Yeltsin may have chosen someone else, and, while he wanted to preserve his family, Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind. Granted, in that case he should’ve carried out a full lustration of the KGB (if not full, then significant).

    But I’m loath to criticize him, his circumstances were much tougher.

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.

    Not Kadyrov definitely, since he was a nationalist in the beginning (fought with his dad against the Russians at age 17). He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course, and even during the Soviet times he could have, hypothetically, become an active agent of Moscow (remember that Dzohar Dudayev was a high ranking officer in the Soviet army), but I would be willing to give him some slack, since his people were almost decimated (losing one third is something quite incomprehensible to Europeans, the Chechens had limited options at the time, thus I would even forgive him, the Chechen people, on the other hand, I don’t expect to).

    Prigozhin would be in prison, possibly a blatniy in prison, there is no way he would be allowed to have a proper career in the SU. Too opportunistic, too entrepreneurial, too criminal (he lured youths into a gang, that’s pretty serious not to mention sinister). He wouldn’t be allowed to accrue such wealth (none of the heads of the party even were truly rich).

    Social dislocation provides opportunities.

    Yes. We spoke about this briefly. The thing is, the SU provided social ladders for different nationalities, so did the Russian Empire. I have nothing against this, it is an attractive option, but I value those who give their lives to their own higher.

    And getting to the top doesn’t mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.

    Absolutely, although Nestor Makhno did have his own state for a while and he is still considered a kind of a hero. His place in history is very solid. But of course there was no structure there to make it long term, nor was he the type to hold it out for too long, too anarchistic, too passionate. I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more “systemic” or “normal” than Prigozhin. Although Prigozhin’s ratings have risen in these recent months due to all his activity. A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian. But I may be wrong. Things are really unpredictable and different now, from we’ve known all these decades.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind.
     
    Like in October 1993 ?

    Bor'ka Alkash was no democrat and he was too drunk to have a mind anyways. BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.

    He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course
     
    His father and him did the right thing. They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland. Grozny is today more affluent than most RusFed cities and is certainly a better place to live than the capitals of Ingushetia and Dagestan. The Chechens are basically extracting a tribute from the Federal government. RusFed is Vainakhs' golden goose.

    I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more “systemic” or “normal” than Prigozhin.
     
    Agreed.

    A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian.
     
    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise "garage economy". Especially in the hinterland. These people despise the bureaucracy and expect nothing from the state. They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn't take him too seriously. A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people. He is a successful entrepreneur and a leader of men. He keeps his word as a real авторитет & решала should do. He does it, while Pynya doesn't. It is important in this milieu. Doesn't mean they would follow him, but he might gain their sympathy.

    Replies: @LatW

  997. @Greasy William
    @AP

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks. And both US and UK intelligence expected the Soviet Union to last only a few months against Nazi Germany.

    Anyway, back to the war itself: the Western media is clearly prepping their audience for a massive Russian offensive. Sounds like sometime within the next 10 days. But I suspect that Putin is again overplaying his hand and we are going to get an Operation Michael situation where Russia makes impressive gains that it proves unable to hold while suffering crippling losses to its offensive capabilities. Only after this offensive fails will Putin maybe be willing to consider an armistice. Right now he seems to believe he's winning

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Philip Owen, @Wokechoke

    Newly trained Saratov mobiks are on two weeks leave which lasts another week, then Ukraine.

  998. @sudden death
    @Wokechoke

    There are still about a dozen of public places in RF, mostly streets, named in Zemlyachka's honor and not a single one in current UA, but you keep enthusiastically rooting for that system to subjugate the one, which is not adoring her;)

    But guess, then it could be said that only globohomos wil not adore pretty woman, heh


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Rozalija_Zalkind.jpg

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Wokechoke

    A more serious counterpoint. We can talk about oppressive systems. Europe and the EU are clearly under a form of occupation by the Jews. There’s a very good case that Mattei was murdered as a part of Gladio.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Mattei

    “Mattei enlarged and reorganized it into the National Fuel Trust (Italian: Ente Nazionale Idrocarburi, ENI). Under his direction, ENI negotiated important oil concessions in the Middle East as well as a significant trade agreement with the Soviet Union, which helped break the oligopoly of the “Seven Sisters” that dominated the mid-20th-century oil industry. He also introduced the principle whereby the country that owned exploited oil reserves received 75% of the profits.”

    This made the guy a marked man.

    “Mattei, who became a powerful figure in Italy, was a member of Christian Democracy and of the Italian Parliament from 1948 to 1953. Mattei made ENI a powerful company, so much so that Italians called it “the state within the state”. He died in a plane crash in 1962, likely caused by a bomb in the plane, although it has never been established which group might have been responsible for his death. The unsolved death of Mattei was the subject of an award-winning film The Mattei Affair by Francesco Rosi in 1972, with Mattei portrayed by Gian Maria Volonté. Along with Vittorio Valletta of Fiat S.p.A., he is regarded among the best Italian managers of the 20th century.”

    The longer these bombings have gone unsolved the more the likelihood that Bignoses did it. I find it amazing that Gerhard Schroeder hasn’t been whacked given what was done to Mattei.

    systems of oppression…

  999. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.

    I have plenty of male relatives who are in Ukraine and are willing to fight if called to do so but haven’t been mobilized (yet) because they aren’t needed due to not having had any military experience. Ukraine isn’t close to the point where every male they can find is in the military.

    Replies: @china-russia-all-the-way, @Gerard1234

    Keep in mind that AnoninTN is the guy who just recently claimed that Ukrainians were banned from the city of Lviv prior to Soviet rule there. He likes to share exaggerations or fake rumors.

    LMAO. Lvov was 7.8% “Ukrainian” before the Soviets came you POS.

    You need a residual amount to shovel shit off the street and work as prostitutes. To anybody who knows anything about the place, anybody who is not some fantasist, autistic nutjob……they were BANNED from Lvov LMAO!!! In Apartheid South Africa in the most elite white districts, where Africans were curfewed from walking on the streets, from going outside or into various buildings or owning property etc – you would still have a residual amount working as maids, gardeners etc you thick retard – the exact same thing in Lvov. Live there freely ?No- i.e BANNED, sell some produce grown outside the city at the market for a few hours in the morning ?- that and not much more. Also amusing that the street that you have never been to , in a city of Lvov you have never been to, in a country you have never been to……..where the place they did historically congregate and live at in A-H time was “Ruska”. Not one single street or road or monument named after or describing “Ukrainian” you thick POS.

    In austistic non-life spamtroll logic , because 2000 Jews or whatever number remained in Poland in 1946 – then there was no mass murder of them! Thats the idiocy is disputing that Lvov was populated by Jews and Poles and the Galician ukros were definitively banned from there.

    More Galician non-citizens ran to the forests and mountains, and probably started evicting rabbits from their warrens ( because they are impotent scumbags who cant fight anything else)……for several years after that census because Polish repression, understandable when 2 groups of dickheads and retards get together – increased plenty more after that last census. My guess is not even 2% of August 1939 Lvov population were Galician ukrops.

    Serbs and Armenians were better treated, had much higher rights and better lives than Galiciain ukrops in Lvov during A-H time and under Polish state.

    If anything, excluding the violence, Jews had HIGHER level of rights in Nazi Germany until 1939, certainly until 1938…….than Galician “Ukrainians” had in Lvov or even extending into the surrounding rural areas!!!!!!

    Thats the pitiful joke we are dealing with here. It must kill a sociopathic non-life fuckwit as yourself that an honest and intellectual guy like AnonFromTN is from Lvov and knows the area well and can expose the WEIRD and blatant BS a freak as yourself tries to spam on here. I know ukronationalists from Lvov and NONE of them would even try to come up with this idiotic “argumentation” or dispute the ban. Only some trash, not even ignorant diaspora would write this deranged nonsense.

    7.8% , LOL!!!!!!!!

  1000. @Greasy William
    @AP

    The CIA also expected Ukraine to buckle in weeks. And both US and UK intelligence expected the Soviet Union to last only a few months against Nazi Germany.

    Anyway, back to the war itself: the Western media is clearly prepping their audience for a massive Russian offensive. Sounds like sometime within the next 10 days. But I suspect that Putin is again overplaying his hand and we are going to get an Operation Michael situation where Russia makes impressive gains that it proves unable to hold while suffering crippling losses to its offensive capabilities. Only after this offensive fails will Putin maybe be willing to consider an armistice. Right now he seems to believe he's winning

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Philip Owen, @Wokechoke

    Michael failed because they overran thinned out British positions. Grandad was a machine-gunner in the battle and got captured. He thought in retrospect that Haig had deliberately thinned out the line of soldiers keeping reserves in Amiens. The British depots were full of chocolate, tobacco, booze, beef and the starving Germans spend a lot of time plundering the lavish dugouts. Do the Ukies have any goodies still? Is there a washing machine gap these days?

    The Ukies could leave copious Hennessey, Mercedes and Gucci as bait for the deprived Russkies.

  1001. @LatW
    @songbird


    What exactly has Anglin done that offends you?
     
    There's a lot to offend there, above all the utter lack of basic moral discipline (which is unattractive in a man). Also, it is quite transparent that he is doing it for the money (in the US one can actually make a living by being an online freak who gets enough attention).

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name. Any normie would look at that and say: "Oh, yuck, all these NS type of people are that disgusting?". And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case - his loquacity is only making things worse (it's good for his money making, but not good for the WN cause), a more Nordic or Germanic type of nationalist would be much more subdued and would never write the kinds of things he does. Forgive me for putting this out here, but it needs to be said. It's just not how a national socialist should behave. But of course he is not one.

    One such bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, so to speak. Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists? Who are mentally strong enough to not get into countless public scandals? It is lame when only people such as this Anglin guy get to be in the limelight, while the more decent ones end up being persecuted.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @songbird

    And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case

    Honestly, had no idea about the connection. Ireland has quite a diversity of surnames (I’d guess more than China), and it is hard to recognize a lot of them as being particularly Irish, due to Anglicization (sounds like Anglin). I went to school with several people that I didn’t realize had an Irish name, partly due to the foreign looks of those with Sicilian blood, in an inclusive Catholic identity. (there are even Irish names that sound Italian, like “Costello”, which also is an Italian name) But also some fair ones, where it just didn’t sound Irish to me – and in fact most names would sound quite different in their original Irish, my own included.

    [MORE]

    his loquacity is only making things worse

    IMO, this is just a stereotype. I’m not offended by it. (Why would I be?) But I don’t think it is true. (and also, I doubt he is pure stock) My father’s people were pretty shy. The hereditary families of poets – which would have been interesting to test for traits of fluidity – were admixed, when they lost their patrons.

    Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists?

    You have to be kind of crazy to put yourself out there, especially in America, where people will show up at your door and attack you. I can think of some figures, but the ones with public identities need to be very careful of what they say. This means that the stuff they say is pretty boring and tends to be about the original American mythos. Unlike some here, I have no innate hostility to it, but, still, it’s kind of hard to see the value in it (since its core seems to be idealizing flawed political figures and systems which failed), and not instead to want to look to some broader and less ephemeral European identity that bridges the oceans.

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name.

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.

    Anyway, IMO, this is more an issue to due with mass propaganda. Lots of propaganda against it, and not any for it. One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.

    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture, but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that. Maybe, you see more in EE, but there seems to be hardly anything in Western Europe or America. (The few Western European movies I have seen, seem to have smuggled blacks in quite early). America has been totally geographically captured – so you can’t even say that there are places without blacks anymore, and set a story there. Where there is one within fifty miles, they need to be in it. Probably true of Western Europe, at this point.

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    Honestly, had no idea about the connection.
     
    For some reason I thought he was Irish. What is his nationality? Irish German maybe?

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.
     
    Well, you asked what our problem with him was - he's obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists. I sometimes feel sad for America that these types take advantage of America's capitalist culture to just make money by running their crazy websites. Obviously, there is a market for it out there. There is a little something for everybody.

    I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it
     
    That one has a libertarian view is not the issue as long as one takes responsibility. You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care. I don't personally care (as long as it is kept within the Anglo sphere), but in the overall picture it is not good.

    One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.
     
    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely... What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn't? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn't?

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.
     
    I agree with you here, of course. But this needs to be cultivated. It doesn't appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @songbird

  1002. @Yahya
    O' What may man within him hide, though angel on the outward side!

    Less than Nine Percent of Western Firms Have Divested from Russia
    Posted: 13 Jan 2023
    Last revised: 31 Jan 2023
    Simon Evenett
    University of St. Gallen - Economics Department - SIAW
    Niccolò Pisani

    Date Written: December 20, 2022

    Abstract
    The Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 and the corporate decisions that followed offer insights into the extent to which Western firms are willing and able to sever commercial ties with nations now viewed as geopolitical rivals by their governments. We gathered extensive data on equity investments made by foreign companies headquartered in the European Union (EU) and G7 nations and checked whether following the outbreak of armed conflict divestment of their Russian subsidiaries could be confirmed. At the end of November 2022, our analysis shows that 8.5% of EU and G7 companies had divested at least one of their Russian subsidiaries. We performed extensive robustness checks that confirm our overall findings while also revealing some notable variation in divestment rates.
     

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4322502


    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zWB8qYsDhLA/maxresdefault.jpg

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    You can’t simply close a limited company in Russia. You have to appoint an administrator and maintain bank accounts for a year. Not to mention that merely maintaining a limited company is a lot simpler than starting one again.

    • Thanks: Yahya
  1003. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    If USSR wouldn’t have crumbled, Putin wouldn’t be much today.
     
    No, the KPSS had a rigid structure so the environment there wouldn't have been as opportunistic. Putin wouldn't have been able to climb to the very top.

    That said, even after Yeltsin, there could've been an alternate path. Yeltsin may have chosen someone else, and, while he wanted to preserve his family, Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind. Granted, in that case he should've carried out a full lustration of the KGB (if not full, then significant).

    But I'm loath to criticize him, his circumstances were much tougher.

    People such as Prigozhin and Kadyrov would have a chance to climb to the top if RusFed crumbles. In the current system they are already at their highest.
     
    Not Kadyrov definitely, since he was a nationalist in the beginning (fought with his dad against the Russians at age 17). He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course, and even during the Soviet times he could have, hypothetically, become an active agent of Moscow (remember that Dzohar Dudayev was a high ranking officer in the Soviet army), but I would be willing to give him some slack, since his people were almost decimated (losing one third is something quite incomprehensible to Europeans, the Chechens had limited options at the time, thus I would even forgive him, the Chechen people, on the other hand, I don't expect to).

    Prigozhin would be in prison, possibly a blatniy in prison, there is no way he would be allowed to have a proper career in the SU. Too opportunistic, too entrepreneurial, too criminal (he lured youths into a gang, that's pretty serious not to mention sinister). He wouldn't be allowed to accrue such wealth (none of the heads of the party even were truly rich).

    Social dislocation provides opportunities.
     
    Yes. We spoke about this briefly. The thing is, the SU provided social ladders for different nationalities, so did the Russian Empire. I have nothing against this, it is an attractive option, but I value those who give their lives to their own higher.

    And getting to the top doesn’t mean staying there for long. Nestor Makhno was at the top of the game around Guliayi Polyie for a year or two, he ended up his life working in a circus in Paris.
     
    Absolutely, although Nestor Makhno did have his own state for a while and he is still considered a kind of a hero. His place in history is very solid. But of course there was no structure there to make it long term, nor was he the type to hold it out for too long, too anarchistic, too passionate. I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more "systemic" or "normal" than Prigozhin. Although Prigozhin's ratings have risen in these recent months due to all his activity. A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian. But I may be wrong. Things are really unpredictable and different now, from we've known all these decades.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind.

    Like in October 1993 ?

    Bor’ka Alkash was no democrat and he was too drunk to have a mind anyways. BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.

    He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course

    His father and him did the right thing. They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland. Grozny is today more affluent than most RusFed cities and is certainly a better place to live than the capitals of Ingushetia and Dagestan. The Chechens are basically extracting a tribute from the Federal government. RusFed is Vainakhs’ golden goose.

    I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more “systemic” or “normal” than Prigozhin.

    Agreed.

    A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian.

    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise “garage economy”. Especially in the hinterland. These people despise the bureaucracy and expect nothing from the state. They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn’t take him too seriously. A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people. He is a successful entrepreneur and a leader of men. He keeps his word as a real авторитет & решала should do. He does it, while Pynya doesn’t. It is important in this milieu. Doesn’t mean they would follow him, but he might gain their sympathy.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Like in October 1993 ?
     
    There was no established system. There was a constitutional and a socioeconomic crisis, as well as the peak of transition. With elements of a civil war. So even more than a triple whammy. Ideally, the commies could've transformed into some kind of a leftist social democrat coalition (knowing the proclivity of the Russian people towards socialism) and the nationalists into national democrats. In such a format, they all could've been represented in the Duma.

    But, of course, this is a naive vision since I don't know how a Nordic style democracy can be established from scratch (or based on a former USSR type of system). I also don't know what could've been done to not allow the oligarchy from being established. If you're saying that Rutskoi would have created such a system, then the question would be how to bring it about in a situation of this kind of friction between different parts of society.

    And it is not entirely accurate to say that Yeltsin was alone there. You will say there were soon to be oligarchs on his side, but the truth is the more liberal part of the Russian population was on his side as well.

    1993 was the worst and the most difficult year, where the most violent transition took place.

    My initial point about Yeltsin was more along the lines that he himself might be surprised to see what his appointment of Putin has led to. And my point wasn't that what transpired was ideal or even desirable.

    BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.
     
    I'm aware of this, of course. He was part of the Communist system then, I can see how they considered this house "dangerous". Best would've been to leave it intact (for it to be brought up later, during freedom from the USSR). They hadn't found the Tsar's remains at the time yet, so they were probably worried about those kinds of searches as well.

    They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland.
     
    That's exactly what I said, they did this because their people were almost decimated. As a result, the Russians also get Chechens lording it over them.

    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise “garage economy”.
     
    This is good (I hope they are not harassed too much by the tax service). But one would hope they would have better folks to look up to than a system billionaire who is Putin's close friend and who harvests diamonds in Africa and uses zeks to raise his status through a meatgrinder.

    They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn’t take him too seriously.
     
    They should've. Zhirik's rants had very serious repercussions.

    A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people.

     

    The Russian people want to base their political culture on the preferences of people "who did time"?
    They can do much better than that.

    He does it, while Pynya doesn’t.
     
    Well, Pynya did for a while. But, of course, he had high oil prices and he can't really fight a continental war.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1004. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Yeltsin had a democratic and a free Russia in mind.
     
    Like in October 1993 ?

    Bor'ka Alkash was no democrat and he was too drunk to have a mind anyways. BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.

    He is a prodazhnaya shkura, of course
     
    His father and him did the right thing. They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland. Grozny is today more affluent than most RusFed cities and is certainly a better place to live than the capitals of Ingushetia and Dagestan. The Chechens are basically extracting a tribute from the Federal government. RusFed is Vainakhs' golden goose.

    I think the contemporary Russian public would probably prefer someone more “systemic” or “normal” than Prigozhin.
     
    Agreed.

    A regular vatnik would approve of him, but not an intelligent, refined Russian.
     
    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise "garage economy". Especially in the hinterland. These people despise the bureaucracy and expect nothing from the state. They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn't take him too seriously. A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people. He is a successful entrepreneur and a leader of men. He keeps his word as a real авторитет & решала should do. He does it, while Pynya doesn't. It is important in this milieu. Doesn't mean they would follow him, but he might gain their sympathy.

    Replies: @LatW

    Like in October 1993 ?

    There was no established system. There was a constitutional and a socioeconomic crisis, as well as the peak of transition. With elements of a civil war. So even more than a triple whammy. Ideally, the commies could’ve transformed into some kind of a leftist social democrat coalition (knowing the proclivity of the Russian people towards socialism) and the nationalists into national democrats. In such a format, they all could’ve been represented in the Duma.

    But, of course, this is a naive vision since I don’t know how a Nordic style democracy can be established from scratch (or based on a former USSR type of system). I also don’t know what could’ve been done to not allow the oligarchy from being established. If you’re saying that Rutskoi would have created such a system, then the question would be how to bring it about in a situation of this kind of friction between different parts of society.

    And it is not entirely accurate to say that Yeltsin was alone there. You will say there were soon to be oligarchs on his side, but the truth is the more liberal part of the Russian population was on his side as well.

    1993 was the worst and the most difficult year, where the most violent transition took place.

    My initial point about Yeltsin was more along the lines that he himself might be surprised to see what his appointment of Putin has led to. And my point wasn’t that what transpired was ideal or even desirable.

    BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.

    I’m aware of this, of course. He was part of the Communist system then, I can see how they considered this house “dangerous”. Best would’ve been to leave it intact (for it to be brought up later, during freedom from the USSR). They hadn’t found the Tsar’s remains at the time yet, so they were probably worried about those kinds of searches as well.

    They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland.

    That’s exactly what I said, they did this because their people were almost decimated. As a result, the Russians also get Chechens lording it over them.

    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise “garage economy”.

    This is good (I hope they are not harassed too much by the tax service). But one would hope they would have better folks to look up to than a system billionaire who is Putin’s close friend and who harvests diamonds in Africa and uses zeks to raise his status through a meatgrinder.

    They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn’t take him too seriously.

    They should’ve. Zhirik’s rants had very serious repercussions.

    A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people.

    The Russian people want to base their political culture on the preferences of people “who did time”?
    They can do much better than that.

    He does it, while Pynya doesn’t.

    Well, Pynya did for a while. But, of course, he had high oil prices and he can’t really fight a continental war.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    There was no established system.
     
    There was everything that was needed (constitution, laws, separation of powers, political parties of all persuasion). It's just that it didn't square up well with the "reforms" and their "curators".

    Ideally, the commies could’ve transformed into some kind of a leftist social democrat coalition (knowing the proclivity of the Russian people towards socialism) and the nationalists into national democrats. In such a format, they all could’ve been represented in the Duma.
     
    It was heading in that direction. That's why stopping it was a crime even without the protesters' massacre. BTW it also started with "unknown snipers".

    He was part of the Communist system then
     
    Sure, he was from a regional Nomenklatura and a typical Noviop.

    The Russian people want to base their political culture on the preferences of people “who did time”?
     
    A significant proportion of Russian men did time or are in close contact with someone who did. It's going better in the last decade or so, but it will probably go worse now that RusFed economy is under such stress.

    Well, Pynya did for a while.
     
    Don't think he did. He was an Azef / Gapon type since the very beginning. He was put in charge to anesthetize the Russian people during Russian cultural and national euthanasia. In 1999, things were really bleak and people were being fed up with that. They brought this dwarf to inject some hope: молодой, перспективный...

    What happened to the Kursk submarine Mr President ? Она утонула with a self-sufficient smirk...
  1005. @songbird
    @LatW


    And, please, forgive me, songbird, but him being Irish is really not that great in this case
     
    Honestly, had no idea about the connection. Ireland has quite a diversity of surnames (I'd guess more than China), and it is hard to recognize a lot of them as being particularly Irish, due to Anglicization (sounds like Anglin). I went to school with several people that I didn't realize had an Irish name, partly due to the foreign looks of those with Sicilian blood, in an inclusive Catholic identity. (there are even Irish names that sound Italian, like "Costello", which also is an Italian name) But also some fair ones, where it just didn't sound Irish to me - and in fact most names would sound quite different in their original Irish, my own included.

    his loquacity is only making things worse
     
    IMO, this is just a stereotype. I'm not offended by it. (Why would I be?) But I don't think it is true. (and also, I doubt he is pure stock) My father's people were pretty shy. The hereditary families of poets - which would have been interesting to test for traits of fluidity - were admixed, when they lost their patrons.

    Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists?
     
    You have to be kind of crazy to put yourself out there, especially in America, where people will show up at your door and attack you. I can think of some figures, but the ones with public identities need to be very careful of what they say. This means that the stuff they say is pretty boring and tends to be about the original American mythos. Unlike some here, I have no innate hostility to it, but, still, it's kind of hard to see the value in it (since its core seems to be idealizing flawed political figures and systems which failed), and not instead to want to look to some broader and less ephemeral European identity that bridges the oceans.

    But my biggest issue with him is that he, not being a national socialist himself, gives all national socialists a really bad name.
     
    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don't think we should disregard trolling totally.

    Anyway, IMO, this is more an issue to due with mass propaganda. Lots of propaganda against it, and not any for it. One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.

    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture, but I don't think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that. Maybe, you see more in EE, but there seems to be hardly anything in Western Europe or America. (The few Western European movies I have seen, seem to have smuggled blacks in quite early). America has been totally geographically captured - so you can't even say that there are places without blacks anymore, and set a story there. Where there is one within fifty miles, they need to be in it. Probably true of Western Europe, at this point.

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn't afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don't have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.

    Replies: @LatW

    Honestly, had no idea about the connection.

    For some reason I thought he was Irish. What is his nationality? Irish German maybe?

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.

    Well, you asked what our problem with him was – he’s obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists. I sometimes feel sad for America that these types take advantage of America’s capitalist culture to just make money by running their crazy websites. Obviously, there is a market for it out there. There is a little something for everybody.

    I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it

    That one has a libertarian view is not the issue as long as one takes responsibility. You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care. I don’t personally care (as long as it is kept within the Anglo sphere), but in the overall picture it is not good.

    One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.

    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.

    I agree with you here, of course. But this needs to be cultivated. It doesn’t appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    • Replies: @S
    @LatW


    Well, you asked what our problem with him [Anglin] was – he’s obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists.
     
    I agree with you and Bashi, and with due respect to Songbird, that Anglin is a troll.

    But this [identity] needs to be cultivated. It doesn’t appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.
     
    Yes, very much so.
    , @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?
     
    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, 'European culture and history is irrelevant because it was created by white men and should be replaced with Aboriginal or Haitian mythology and lesbian earth mother cult etc.'

    Lately things in this vein have been gaining (or been granted) greater cultural traction and prominence. Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive, sometimes there is some zealotry and year-zero feel to it.

    It is done in a serious spirit by people with some social standing and power who seem to show a studied surprise that any of it could be considered controversial, and it does make bizarre claims as well as touching on serious issues like demographic change. IMO this makes it a honey pot for trolling.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:


    I was convinced to write this book by certain frogs who told me, “Is it not a shame that hucksters are multiplying lies, and jizzing their filthy doctrines into receptive minds everywhere? Perversions—lame ones—are born by the thousands and haunt, like myriad cripplette midgets in halls of mirrors, they haunt the world, books, the internet. Minds are lost. If you wait any longer everything will be pounded to garbage, there will be nothing left —it will all turn, the whole world will turn to a Bulgarian rest stop lavatory. But have you seen the movie Midnight Express...and...and how did it make you feel?”

    I was roused from my slumber by my frog friends and I declare to you, with great boldness, that I am here to save you from a great ugliness.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    Irish German maybe?
     
    This is what I'd assume from his face, as well as learning he grew up in Ohio.

    but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists.
     
    Guilt by association is one of the worst ideas and modes of control. It is totally one-sided, and only operates on the Right. We need to be able to brush it off because the other side will always run false flags and use it dishonestly.

    You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care.
     
    TBH, women are extremely conformist. The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won't care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise. The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.) But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.

    It is not a war of ideas. Many are deranged or totally disingenuous - that is how the radical Left operates, and they need to be dismissed out of hand. They need insults returned for insults. I just saw a clip the other day of an Aussie facing off with some radicals on Australia Day, and he called one of them fat, and it was pretty funny. Good propaganda:
    https://twitter.com/undisputedcha14/status/1625121791030042624?s=20&t=F1q7HJrKrC5iEfgnERPa0w

    But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?
     
    There's lots of niche cultural products. There could hardly not be in the age of the internet. But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.

    I've said this before, and the Sinologists will hate me for it, but, if you go to China, you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King. That is because they own their cultural space better than we do. They make a lot of really terrible Monkey King movies. The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.

    Replies: @LatW

  1006. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/The_Russian_Empire_at_it%27s_greatest_extent%21.png

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @QCIC

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    Massive tweets barrages are incredibly resource intensive. Since that has been scaled back I can get to ~900 before things begin to bog on my obsolete mobile device.

    I have been asking for new OT threads as they slow. I posted a request for 209 here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5811039

    Hopefully Mr. Unz will launch a new OT in the AM (Pacific Coast U.S. Time Zone).

    Good night all.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    P.S. Congratulations to the proud American Indian Warrior Leaders for over coming those Philadelphia Bums, Squatters, and Vandals.

    As a earned reward — I suggest permanently relocating the Liberty Bell from Sh!tadelphia to a genuine redoubt of American tradition. Kansas City BBQ and The Liberty Bell is a glorious match.

  1007. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.
     
    Emil, you have just made me realize that since the day they sold Alaska and vacated Fort Ross, Russia didn't relent getting smaller. Sad...

    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon. Although, I believe the US were recently beefing up the level of readiness of their nuclear deterrence, so perhaps:

    https://youtube.com/shorts/KZImOetgbBQ?feature=share

    Replies: @S

    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon.

    Three ‘objects’ (at least) have now been shot down, besides the ‘Chinese spy balloon’

    I heard today (Sunday) something like an hour long press conference involving high level US security officials. The media is playing up (somewhat subtly for the moment) the possible ‘UFO’ aspect, as in ‘extra-terrestrial’. Even this high level official, when asked, said he ‘couldn’t rule out’ extra-terrestrial origin of these ‘objects’, as they didn’t know what they were yet.

    We’ll see how this plays out.

    As it is, so far, I’m getting some vibes of Orson Welles 1938 ‘War of the Worlds’ radio broadcast, which created a certain amount of very real hysteria.

    Yes, of course there are people who would fake this kind of thing for personal or collective gain.

    Welles did.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(1938_radio_drama)

    [MORE]

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @S

    UFOs are real, but this time they are fake. Apparently they cant manoeuvre now, not even speaking about defending themselves etc.

    They used to claim that real UFOs are some top-secret USA crafts, so they can claim that false UFOs are real UFOs now.

    Anyway, I read years ago that USA tried to shoot down UFOs many times, with zero success. But they cannot say something like that to general public (there is a problem with no solution here), so they created situation in which they shoot them down one by one - carefully over some desolated waters, so no one can check what they really are.

    Maybe it is a way to prepare some sort of soft disclosure, though. The news are clearly for general public this time.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @S

  1008. @LatW
    @songbird


    Honestly, had no idea about the connection.
     
    For some reason I thought he was Irish. What is his nationality? Irish German maybe?

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.
     
    Well, you asked what our problem with him was - he's obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists. I sometimes feel sad for America that these types take advantage of America's capitalist culture to just make money by running their crazy websites. Obviously, there is a market for it out there. There is a little something for everybody.

    I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it
     
    That one has a libertarian view is not the issue as long as one takes responsibility. You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care. I don't personally care (as long as it is kept within the Anglo sphere), but in the overall picture it is not good.

    One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.
     
    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely... What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn't? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn't?

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.
     
    I agree with you here, of course. But this needs to be cultivated. It doesn't appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @songbird

    Well, you asked what our problem with him [Anglin] was – he’s obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists.

    I agree with you and Bashi, and with due respect to Songbird, that Anglin is a troll.

    But this [identity] needs to be cultivated. It doesn’t appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    Yes, very much so.

  1009. @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    We are currently on peak oil plateau (world oil production is not increasing), in few years we should cross it to start falling from peak oil cliff
     
    There's like 1,600 billion barrels of proven reserves (and that is not counting shale of which there is like 3,000 billion barrels in North America, alone.)

    Sixty years more of current consumption levels. (not including shale or other improvements in technology to make drilling more economical). Easily enough to totally destroy what is left of Western Europe, if oil is the only limiting factor. Hundreds of years for coal. Probably thousands for nuclear, and hydrocarbons can be made using both.

    Dysgenics and societal decay are probably bigger limiting factors.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Proven reserves are not recoverable reserves.

    Anyway, it is all about EROI (Energy Recovered on Energy Invested). If you need more energy to extract energy than you get useful energy from extracting, it is game over.

    EROI of oil has dramatically fallen, from 100-80 on early Pennsylvania fields years ago to 10-8 on shale now. It is reflected in prices, in reducing the Main Street share of economy in favour of Wall Street etc. It is important to grasp this is energy problem, not financial problem.

    http://euanmearns.com/eroei-for-beginners/
    The greatest risk to human society today is the notion that we can somehow replace high ERoEI fossil fuels with new renewable energies like solar PV and biofuels. These exist within the energy web because they are subsidised by the co-existing high ERoEI fossil fuels. The subsidy occurs at multiple levels from fossil fuels used to create the renewable devices and biofuels to fossil fuels providing the load balancing services. Fossil fuels provide the monetary wealth to pay the subsidies.

    Anyway, oil production (crude oil) has been oscillating around 80 Mb/day for some time already. We are on plateau.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Petroleum is a finite commodity, but the "shale boom" is probably just getting started on a worldwide basis. The economy of scale is relatively poor compared to conventional oil, but there is a lot of it.

    I'm not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.

    Replies: @A123

  1010. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    Speaking of Alaska, they have supposedly shot down an UFO between Yukon and Alaska on Saturday. Probably another Chinese balloon.
     
    Three 'objects' (at least) have now been shot down, besides the 'Chinese spy balloon'

    I heard today (Sunday) something like an hour long press conference involving high level US security officials. The media is playing up (somewhat subtly for the moment) the possible 'UFO' aspect, as in 'extra-terrestrial'. Even this high level official, when asked, said he 'couldn't rule out' extra-terrestrial origin of these 'objects', as they didn't know what they were yet.

    We'll see how this plays out.

    As it is, so far, I'm getting some vibes of Orson Welles 1938 'War of the Worlds' radio broadcast, which created a certain amount of very real hysteria.

    Yes, of course there are people who would fake this kind of thing for personal or collective gain.

    Welles did.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(1938_radio_drama)

    https://youtu.be/KqztEQmc6IE



    https://youtu.be/gGTRdpW8oZA

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    UFOs are real, but this time they are fake. Apparently they cant manoeuvre now, not even speaking about defending themselves etc.

    They used to claim that real UFOs are some top-secret USA crafts, so they can claim that false UFOs are real UFOs now.

    Anyway, I read years ago that USA tried to shoot down UFOs many times, with zero success. But they cannot say something like that to general public (there is a problem with no solution here), so they created situation in which they shoot them down one by one – carefully over some desolated waters, so no one can check what they really are.

    Maybe it is a way to prepare some sort of soft disclosure, though. The news are clearly for general public this time.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    On the Chinese end of the billowing dispute, local news outlets cited by Bloomberg News reported on Sunday that China’s government was preparing to bring down an unidentified flying object said to have been spotted over the port of Qingdao. Fishermen in the surrounding area had been told to be alert, according to the reports.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/12/us-military-shoots-down-fourth-flying-object-over-north-american-airspace

    It surely starts to look like in the movies - they are appearing everywhere, just small, not big (so we can surely shoot them down ha).

    , @S
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I'll reply to this in the new thread.

  1011. @AP
    @Beckow


    I demonstrated to you before that Nato stated each year from 2008 that Ukraine will be in Nato
     
    And year after year Ukraine didn't get close to being in NATO, which means that if NATO says Ukraine will be in NATO, it is not going to happen. It's nice words for Ukraine, and an excuse that Russia uses so morons like you believe that invading Ukraine was necessary to keep it out of NATO.

    If it's a consolation, some Russian grandmothers probably agree with you.

    that Nato membership was in Ukie Constitution, that arms, cross-training
     
    Still in the constitution, and arms and cross-training have increased by an order of magnitude since the Russian invasion.

    joint bases (Berdiansk, Ochakov)
     
    Nice fantasy. You complain about the use of "if" but do the same when it suits you.

    The whole crisis exists because some in Washington decided to bring Ukraine into Nato
     
    Correction: the whole crisis exists because Russia does not want to lose Ukraine to the West. It does not want a Ukraine divided from it.

    "Western Ukraine has a fraction of West Germany’s population"

    What? How small exactly are you planning for this “free Ukieland” to be?
     
    Ukraine in the current border probably has 25-30 million people, taking into account the millions who have fled. Add about 4-5 million if they 70% or so of the refugees come back after the war. This is the most likely scenario.

    A fraction of West Germany's 64 million people.

    And an even smaller fraction of the population of the 18 European countries that were subsidized by the USA's Marshall Plan after World War II.

    am getting worried, are you thinking something like 10 million people?
     
    In the extremely unlikely event that Ukraine gets reduced to the parts that were non-Soviet in 1939 it would be 12-15 million people. Ironically, this much-smaller Ukraine would probably improve much more quickly, it is close to the West with infrastructure already there, easier to manage, etc.

    large nation – in 1991 it had 50 million relatively prosperous people.
     
    And if it included southern Russia it would have 80 million, but it would not be Ukraine any more.

    Losing the ethnic Russians of Crimea and Donetsk was a very good thing. It was their fault that Ukraine fell so far behind in the 1990s and 2000s, they were the anchor that kept Ukraine from following Poland and the Baltics westward. This was why Putin was trying until the last moment to keep Donbas in Ukraine under the condition of special autonomy and veto power over national policy.

    And all because you hate the Russians and their language so much
     
    You are just lying as usual.

    Would you like your Slovak language to be replaced by Hungarian? Or to have only half your population speak it? No? Does that mean you hate the Hungarian people and language?

    You who see hatred everywhere must be full of hatred yourself. Is it bitter for you, being an eternal lackey? Embarrassing to see your would-be master Putin stumble so much?

    This is planning for a demographic catastrophe
     
    Loss of population is terrible but not as terrible as occupation and forced integration with Eurasia, and not as terrible as replacement as in Western Europe and in the Balkans.

    Replies: @Beckow

    There is a lot of outright nonsense in what your write (I will address it), but it is a coherent view-point: Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn’t have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.

    It would be – based on how the war goes – a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country hoping to get into EU (and get subsidies) and probably with some stand-off agreement between Nato and Russia, that Nato would again violate in 20-30 years. It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, ‘tourists’ would visit for the bars and security conferences. It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).

    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine? Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers, who sells them trinkets, how many people can leave – none of that is of any interest to Nato. Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That’s what they want – you not seeing it is extremely naive. They would also like Crimea (strategic), and they will use the Ukies to fight for as much of it as they can make them – and die in large numbers.

    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe). Its main enemy and is Russia. There is an element of chicken-and-egg, who did what first, who reacted. But Nato is not in Ukraine with $100’s billions for Zelensky wife’s pretty eyes. You denying it makes you into a useful moron, only focused on his silly ethnic-language dreams. If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.

    Regarding your denials: ‘but they postponed it year after year!” – are you really that stupid? That’s how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances. Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha…good one). That’s exactly the same approach with Nato and Ukraine. A careful game to win.

    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato. But it is pointless to try to convince you: you are either a lying ideologue (why, this is a discussion forum?) or you simply don’t know how the world works.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha…good one).
     
    This seems to be one of Mike Whitney's points that he brings up in his latest piece, that I find to be funny too, although I find the idea to be quite possible. This is how I replied to him yesterday at his blogsite:

    we can be 100% certain that Scholz knew what the overall game-plan was. The plan was to lure Russia into a war in Ukraine and then claim “Unprovked aggression”. Scholz knew it, Hollande knew it, Zelensky knew it, Boris Johnson knew it, Petro Poroshenko knew it and Biden knew it. They all knew it.
     
    Everybody in the world knew it, except poor, poor Putler (what a moron!). No wonder he ended up sacking the head of the FSB’s Fifth Service and hundreds of their underlings in May of 2023. Don’t know if the new gang of spooks is any better than the ones that were replaced. LOL. RIP.

    https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20160702_EUD001_0.jpg

    , @AP
    @Beckow

    I replied in the new Open Thread, here:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-209/#comment-5812346

  1012. @Another Polish Perspective
    @S

    UFOs are real, but this time they are fake. Apparently they cant manoeuvre now, not even speaking about defending themselves etc.

    They used to claim that real UFOs are some top-secret USA crafts, so they can claim that false UFOs are real UFOs now.

    Anyway, I read years ago that USA tried to shoot down UFOs many times, with zero success. But they cannot say something like that to general public (there is a problem with no solution here), so they created situation in which they shoot them down one by one - carefully over some desolated waters, so no one can check what they really are.

    Maybe it is a way to prepare some sort of soft disclosure, though. The news are clearly for general public this time.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @S

    On the Chinese end of the billowing dispute, local news outlets cited by Bloomberg News reported on Sunday that China’s government was preparing to bring down an unidentified flying object said to have been spotted over the port of Qingdao. Fishermen in the surrounding area had been told to be alert, according to the reports.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/12/us-military-shoots-down-fourth-flying-object-over-north-american-airspace

    It surely starts to look like in the movies – they are appearing everywhere, just small, not big (so we can surely shoot them down ha).

  1013. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What served Islam well in societies where the vast majority were illiterate and scared of where their next meal would come from, will not serve Islam now.
     
    Islamic societies had an equal or higher level of basic literary than their Western counterparts until probably the first industrial revolution. And life in these societies was not less affluent than in the West back then.

    The problem with Islam (if we can even call it a problem) is entirely different. Islam is directed towards creating a pacified existence filled with consentement. It is the antithesis of Fausatian insatisfaction which is the real psychological motor of progess.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Leaves No Shadow

    So they were mostly illiterate lol

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum'een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate. Alexis ds Tocqueville wrote of Algeria after the French conquest: "we cams and disorganized their traditional society". The level of literacy and culture fell abysmally under Western domination.

    Replies: @AP

  1014. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Get a room with your boyfriend Anglin already!
     
    I've probably read him less than you. I just like being contrarian.

    He is a typical sociopath with the psychological maturity of an infant.
     
    Don't confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity. It requires theory of mind to be a troll. He is trying to set people off, and does.

    which is substantially worse than all mainstream journalism
     
    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.

    any movement or ideas associated with it, and him, will forever be marginalised.
     
    maybe, you are making too much of him? He is just one troll. And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized, and that has absolutely nothing to do with him.

    You think they wrote about how women need to be raped?
     
    Anglin is edgy, so he probably doesn't have much of a female audience. Perhaps, that results in a bit of MGTOW, but AFAIK, he is mainly lampooning feminism (sometimes effectively), and not telling people to swear off women. "Rape" is actually pretty common gamer parlance, or was, before they introduced totalitarian speech controls.

    Maybe it was when it started, but it has descended into resentful, ignorant lunacy since.
     
    Have you seen Anglin's portrait on twitter? It is not the picture of a man without a sense of humor.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Leaves No Shadow

    Don’t confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity.

    Don’t confuse being a sociopath with a lack of manners or being a troll. A sociopath displays no awareness of what drives him and has a heavily distorted view of the world, which serves him by rationalising his unpleasant self-harming behaviour.

    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.

    Coates is an excellent writer who communicates what is in his head through the lossy medium of words without loss. This is a sublime skill. So, even though what he communicates is his own neuroticism and not trans-subjective reality, he makes it into a pseudo reality through his intense understanding of his neuroticism and ability to communicate it.

    Anglin merely throws a bunch of incoherent psychosis on the page for his Cluster B followers. He’s been phoning it in for years. And Cluster Bs will generally just follow the person who most devalues those they are jealous of and who shows the least insight.

    Coates is superior to that like a healthy 40 year old is superior to an unhealthy 4 year old in mental function.

    And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized,

    Borders, hard work and family are all part of the mainstream. Just because they are not emphasised as much as you would like, doesn’t mean they are rejected. Try going to another developed country illegally. It’ll be near infinitely harder than it would have been in 1900. Please do not distort reality to devalue those you are jealous of. Yes, this is just an ordinary amount of it, but the risk is that you become totally unmoored.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Please do not distort reality to devalue those you are jealous of.
     
    You are Jewish - and a recent arrival at that. It is that simple. And that is why you were fantasizing about turning Arabs into Iranians, rather than deporting them.

    It is probably also why you are so animated on Russia vs. Ukraine, and why you idealize Ze.
  1015. @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    Sorry for all the typos. Should've typed contentment instead of consentement and of course Faustian instead of Fausatian.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    No worries. Muslims didn’t have the Faustian spirit because the majority of Islam lacks any sort of spiritual dimension, it seems. Aaron B’s Sufis notwithstanding. And you can’t make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don’t even know it.

    Not that there is a devil as in something “bad.” Just what people don’t understand.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Leaves No Shadow


    And you can’t make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don’t even know it.
     
    The deals with the devil, known and unknown, at some point will always engage your free will; there is no escape from that, not even "I was at gunpoint!". This is the fundamental rule of the game. But yes, many times people will not know they are dealing with the devil.
    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry Laxa, but you don’t know much about Islam. Which is okay, nobody has to waste their time learning about exotic cults and belief systems if they are not as foolish as I am.

    Islam is basically the ultimate form of transcendental Monism. Pushed to its extremes, there is nothing there to attain, except for the acceptance of and by an ineffable God.

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    This metaphysics entails stasis. A true Mu'meen should be quite content looking after his goats ans sheep if it was not for external perturbations caused mostly by those who are outside Allah's grace and approval.

    Regarding the Devil, in Islam he is the purest monotheist because he only accepted to prostrate in front of the Creator and not in front of a creature (humankind). Interestingly enough, God punished him because the fallen archangel followed the monistic metaphysics to its logical conclusions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @LatW

  1016. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Like in October 1993 ?
     
    There was no established system. There was a constitutional and a socioeconomic crisis, as well as the peak of transition. With elements of a civil war. So even more than a triple whammy. Ideally, the commies could've transformed into some kind of a leftist social democrat coalition (knowing the proclivity of the Russian people towards socialism) and the nationalists into national democrats. In such a format, they all could've been represented in the Duma.

    But, of course, this is a naive vision since I don't know how a Nordic style democracy can be established from scratch (or based on a former USSR type of system). I also don't know what could've been done to not allow the oligarchy from being established. If you're saying that Rutskoi would have created such a system, then the question would be how to bring it about in a situation of this kind of friction between different parts of society.

    And it is not entirely accurate to say that Yeltsin was alone there. You will say there were soon to be oligarchs on his side, but the truth is the more liberal part of the Russian population was on his side as well.

    1993 was the worst and the most difficult year, where the most violent transition took place.

    My initial point about Yeltsin was more along the lines that he himself might be surprised to see what his appointment of Putin has led to. And my point wasn't that what transpired was ideal or even desirable.

    BTW, in 1977 he was the one who ordered the razing of the Ipatyiev House where the Tsar and his family were killed.
     
    I'm aware of this, of course. He was part of the Communist system then, I can see how they considered this house "dangerous". Best would've been to leave it intact (for it to be brought up later, during freedom from the USSR). They hadn't found the Tsar's remains at the time yet, so they were probably worried about those kinds of searches as well.

    They saved their people from annihilation and having to flee their homeland.
     
    That's exactly what I said, they did this because their people were almost decimated. As a result, the Russians also get Chechens lording it over them.

    Around a third of Russian workforce is into the small entreprise “garage economy”.
     
    This is good (I hope they are not harassed too much by the tax service). But one would hope they would have better folks to look up to than a system billionaire who is Putin's close friend and who harvests diamonds in Africa and uses zeks to raise his status through a meatgrinder.

    They usually had a positive view of Zhirik, even if they didn’t take him too seriously.
     
    They should've. Zhirik's rants had very serious repercussions.

    A non negligeable proportion of these people did time. Prigozhin appeals to this type of people.

     

    The Russian people want to base their political culture on the preferences of people "who did time"?
    They can do much better than that.

    He does it, while Pynya doesn’t.
     
    Well, Pynya did for a while. But, of course, he had high oil prices and he can't really fight a continental war.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    There was no established system.

    There was everything that was needed (constitution, laws, separation of powers, political parties of all persuasion). It’s just that it didn’t square up well with the “reforms” and their “curators”.

    Ideally, the commies could’ve transformed into some kind of a leftist social democrat coalition (knowing the proclivity of the Russian people towards socialism) and the nationalists into national democrats. In such a format, they all could’ve been represented in the Duma.

    It was heading in that direction. That’s why stopping it was a crime even without the protesters’ massacre. BTW it also started with “unknown snipers”.

    He was part of the Communist system then

    Sure, he was from a regional Nomenklatura and a typical Noviop.

    The Russian people want to base their political culture on the preferences of people “who did time”?

    A significant proportion of Russian men did time or are in close contact with someone who did. It’s going better in the last decade or so, but it will probably go worse now that RusFed economy is under such stress.

    Well, Pynya did for a while.

    Don’t think he did. He was an Azef / Gapon type since the very beginning. He was put in charge to anesthetize the Russian people during Russian cultural and national euthanasia. In 1999, things were really bleak and people were being fed up with that. They brought this dwarf to inject some hope: молодой, перспективный…

    What happened to the Kursk submarine Mr President ? Она утонула with a self-sufficient smirk…

  1017. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    So they were mostly illiterate lol

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate. Alexis ds Tocqueville wrote of Algeria after the French conquest: “we cams and disorganized their traditional society”. The level of literacy and culture fell abysmally under Western domination.

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate.
     
    The literacy they that Islam promotes seemingly requires the ability to read, but does not necessarily include understanding what is read:

    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1624821684309004288?s=20&t=6mKonr-6IJ9aEmyLnxkcGg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1018. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    No worries. Muslims didn't have the Faustian spirit because the majority of Islam lacks any sort of spiritual dimension, it seems. Aaron B's Sufis notwithstanding. And you can't make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don't even know it.

    Not that there is a devil as in something "bad." Just what people don't understand.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    And you can’t make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don’t even know it.

    The deals with the devil, known and unknown, at some point will always engage your free will; there is no escape from that, not even “I was at gunpoint!”. This is the fundamental rule of the game. But yes, many times people will not know they are dealing with the devil.

  1019. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    No worries. Muslims didn't have the Faustian spirit because the majority of Islam lacks any sort of spiritual dimension, it seems. Aaron B's Sufis notwithstanding. And you can't make a deal with the devil without insight. Instead, the devil just makes the deal and you don't even know it.

    Not that there is a devil as in something "bad." Just what people don't understand.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    Sorry Laxa, but you don’t know much about Islam. Which is okay, nobody has to waste their time learning about exotic cults and belief systems if they are not as foolish as I am.

    Islam is basically the ultimate form of transcendental Monism. Pushed to its extremes, there is nothing there to attain, except for the acceptance of and by an ineffable God.

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    This metaphysics entails stasis. A true Mu’meen should be quite content looking after his goats ans sheep if it was not for external perturbations caused mostly by those who are outside Allah’s grace and approval.

    Regarding the Devil, in Islam he is the purest monotheist because he only accepted to prostrate in front of the Creator and not in front of a creature (humankind). Interestingly enough, God punished him because the fallen archangel followed the monistic metaphysics to its logical conclusions.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Please re-read any references to spirituality and replace with its synonym of introspection and you'll see that you're actually agreeing with me.

    As regards the devil, it is sometimes a label used for the spaces between the light and sometimes used by ignorant people for light itself. I'm uninterested in theological arguments, I'm just telling you. I don't expect you to believe me, but I suggest you take it as a reasonable hypothesis for your consideration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Isn't all religion like this?

    From the religious pov, the Faustian spirit would be pure avidya - the quest to feel "full" through the accumulation of ever more physical objects is always doomed to failure, and moreover, based on ignorance of the fact that atman is Brahman.

    All religion is based on some version of this insight - the Kingdom is within you, not in the accumulation of physical objects out there, etc.

    I'm reading a remarkable and very lucid little book on Vedanta by Rambachan right now, and he has a wonderful formulation of the religious quest, taken, I think, from Hindu tradition - to gain the already gained, to accomplish the already accomplished :)

    Which is just another way of saying, really - "wake up"!

    In various forms, I'm familiar with this formulation - after all, in the Diamond Sutra the Buddha stresses that one does not gain a single thing from enlightenment, and Huang Po, later on, says it is like looking for a jewel that was always attached to ones forehead.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.
     
    Great. In that case, they should stay out of the EU. Nothing to gain for them there. Right?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1020. @LatW
    @songbird


    Honestly, had no idea about the connection.
     
    For some reason I thought he was Irish. What is his nationality? Irish German maybe?

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.
     
    Well, you asked what our problem with him was - he's obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists. I sometimes feel sad for America that these types take advantage of America's capitalist culture to just make money by running their crazy websites. Obviously, there is a market for it out there. There is a little something for everybody.

    I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it
     
    That one has a libertarian view is not the issue as long as one takes responsibility. You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care. I don't personally care (as long as it is kept within the Anglo sphere), but in the overall picture it is not good.

    One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.
     
    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely... What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn't? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn't?

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.
     
    I agree with you here, of course. But this needs to be cultivated. It doesn't appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @songbird

    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?

    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, ‘European culture and history is irrelevant because it was created by white men and should be replaced with Aboriginal or Haitian mythology and lesbian earth mother cult etc.’

    Lately things in this vein have been gaining (or been granted) greater cultural traction and prominence. Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive, sometimes there is some zealotry and year-zero feel to it.

    It is done in a serious spirit by people with some social standing and power who seem to show a studied surprise that any of it could be considered controversial, and it does make bizarre claims as well as touching on serious issues like demographic change. IMO this makes it a honey pot for trolling.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:

    I was convinced to write this book by certain frogs who told me, “Is it not a shame that hucksters are multiplying lies, and jizzing their filthy doctrines into receptive minds everywhere? Perversions—lame ones—are born by the thousands and haunt, like myriad cripplette midgets in halls of mirrors, they haunt the world, books, the internet. Minds are lost. If you wait any longer everything will be pounded to garbage, there will be nothing left —it will all turn, the whole world will turn to a Bulgarian rest stop lavatory. But have you seen the movie Midnight Express…and…and how did it make you feel?”

    I was roused from my slumber by my frog friends and I declare to you, with great boldness, that I am here to save you from a great ugliness.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    BAP is of course also a major troll. That is the problem we have: is there anyone serious left defending Western/European civilization in a way that would appeal to the younger minds. Because if there isn't, then we might as well consider this civilization as already defunct. It is just a matter of time before it is definitely erased.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @LatW
    @Coconuts


    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.
     
    I simply disagree that there is no modern European culture. Anglosphere is, of course, a particular case, but overall I disagree with songbird on this issue. I also view culture very broadly, not just movies and books. To me architecture, classical culture, fashion, family life, regional culture, all those are included under "culture".

    Every EU country pretty much has a local culture, yes, a lot of it is tarnished and damaged by the woke, but not all. I'm not saying we're not in a precarious situation, but being such a downer just makes things worse.

    Another thing that bugs me about these alt-right types is the constant whining. I have dedicated private funds to non-woke cultural projects, why can't they?

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, ‘

     

    I'm not entirely convinced it's that simple. I think it's a more destructive impulse, above all, I believe he is just trying to make money by being scandalous. He is only destroying the Western civilization. If he wants to do that, he can do it in his own backyard, not mine. Thus I believe such should be banned in the EU (and he would be). And what ticks me off, is that if it were to take place and he got banned, then everyone the alt right would scream he got banned because he is far right. By having such figures we distort the whole definition of what far right means, when we should be much more consistent with it, we should walk the straight and narrow (pun not intended).

    And, no, Anglin is not a national socialist (even though he uses these symbols in vain). He is a wrecker, plain and simple.


    Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive
     
    Maybe it's time to leave those institutions in large numbers. I know it's not easy. But maybe it's time.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:
     
    Bronze Age Pervert I have nothing against and almost kind of like. What little I read, appealed to me. He has a winner's vibe, not a loser's one, like Anglin. BAP promotes healthy masculinity so his ethos is much better. Granted, I haven't read him much, this is just my impression from a few tweets that I skimmed through.
  1021. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry Laxa, but you don’t know much about Islam. Which is okay, nobody has to waste their time learning about exotic cults and belief systems if they are not as foolish as I am.

    Islam is basically the ultimate form of transcendental Monism. Pushed to its extremes, there is nothing there to attain, except for the acceptance of and by an ineffable God.

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    This metaphysics entails stasis. A true Mu'meen should be quite content looking after his goats ans sheep if it was not for external perturbations caused mostly by those who are outside Allah's grace and approval.

    Regarding the Devil, in Islam he is the purest monotheist because he only accepted to prostrate in front of the Creator and not in front of a creature (humankind). Interestingly enough, God punished him because the fallen archangel followed the monistic metaphysics to its logical conclusions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @LatW

    Please re-read any references to spirituality and replace with its synonym of introspection and you’ll see that you’re actually agreeing with me.

    As regards the devil, it is sometimes a label used for the spaces between the light and sometimes used by ignorant people for light itself. I’m uninterested in theological arguments, I’m just telling you. I don’t expect you to believe me, but I suggest you take it as a reasonable hypothesis for your consideration.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I won't get into any theological arguments with you Laxa, or anyone else for that matter. But if you write about a specific belief system, and your aim is simply to express your subjective opinions, then perhaps you would consider avoiding sweeping affirmations such as "there is no spirituality there (in Islam). Of course Islam is spiritual. What isn't ? Regarding the Devil, in the monistic metaphysics, this entity is part of the plan. It is not truly an adversary, more of a controlled opposition. So I don't disagree with your take.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  1022. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry Laxa, but you don’t know much about Islam. Which is okay, nobody has to waste their time learning about exotic cults and belief systems if they are not as foolish as I am.

    Islam is basically the ultimate form of transcendental Monism. Pushed to its extremes, there is nothing there to attain, except for the acceptance of and by an ineffable God.

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    This metaphysics entails stasis. A true Mu'meen should be quite content looking after his goats ans sheep if it was not for external perturbations caused mostly by those who are outside Allah's grace and approval.

    Regarding the Devil, in Islam he is the purest monotheist because he only accepted to prostrate in front of the Creator and not in front of a creature (humankind). Interestingly enough, God punished him because the fallen archangel followed the monistic metaphysics to its logical conclusions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @LatW

    Isn’t all religion like this?

    From the religious pov, the Faustian spirit would be pure avidya – the quest to feel “full” through the accumulation of ever more physical objects is always doomed to failure, and moreover, based on ignorance of the fact that atman is Brahman.

    All religion is based on some version of this insight – the Kingdom is within you, not in the accumulation of physical objects out there, etc.

    I’m reading a remarkable and very lucid little book on Vedanta by Rambachan right now, and he has a wonderful formulation of the religious quest, taken, I think, from Hindu tradition – to gain the already gained, to accomplish the already accomplished 🙂

    Which is just another way of saying, really – “wake up”!

    In various forms, I’m familiar with this formulation – after all, in the Diamond Sutra the Buddha stresses that one does not gain a single thing from enlightenment, and Huang Po, later on, says it is like looking for a jewel that was always attached to ones forehead.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, many belief systems are not monistic (although Advaita certainly is). And Faustian attitude of the Western mind is not necessarily materialistic. Agree about the Zen / Ch'an part of your comment, however it is not worth discussing given how obvious it is.

  1023. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?
     
    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, 'European culture and history is irrelevant because it was created by white men and should be replaced with Aboriginal or Haitian mythology and lesbian earth mother cult etc.'

    Lately things in this vein have been gaining (or been granted) greater cultural traction and prominence. Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive, sometimes there is some zealotry and year-zero feel to it.

    It is done in a serious spirit by people with some social standing and power who seem to show a studied surprise that any of it could be considered controversial, and it does make bizarre claims as well as touching on serious issues like demographic change. IMO this makes it a honey pot for trolling.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:


    I was convinced to write this book by certain frogs who told me, “Is it not a shame that hucksters are multiplying lies, and jizzing their filthy doctrines into receptive minds everywhere? Perversions—lame ones—are born by the thousands and haunt, like myriad cripplette midgets in halls of mirrors, they haunt the world, books, the internet. Minds are lost. If you wait any longer everything will be pounded to garbage, there will be nothing left —it will all turn, the whole world will turn to a Bulgarian rest stop lavatory. But have you seen the movie Midnight Express...and...and how did it make you feel?”

    I was roused from my slumber by my frog friends and I declare to you, with great boldness, that I am here to save you from a great ugliness.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    BAP is of course also a major troll. That is the problem we have: is there anyone serious left defending Western/European civilization in a way that would appeal to the younger minds. Because if there isn’t, then we might as well consider this civilization as already defunct. It is just a matter of time before it is definitely erased.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    BAP is of course also a major troll. That is the problem we have: is there anyone serious left defending Western/European civilization in a way that would appeal to the younger minds. Because if there isn’t, then we might as well consider this civilization as already defunct. It is just a matter of time before it is definitely erased.
     
    This is a good question. I think there are, but they are still not as well known as they could be. For example, I don't get why someone like Alain de Benoist isn't better known on the Anglo dissident right, because the Nouvelle Droite started thinking about these problems some decades ago. Various of his books have been translated and are sold by Arktos but I don't hear them being discussed that much.

    There is a developing Anglo 'post-liberal' sphere that is more serious and closer to the mainstream or the real world than BAP, and it seems to me Benoist And GRECE could fit to the right of that.

    When I think back now the things which made me aware of European civilisation when I was growing up mostly seem to be fading, it feels like a different era even though it is not that long ago really. I know my wife still believes in a European ideal, I noticed this with other Belarusians, and not one based on grievance or larping. I wonder if over time it will give rise to something.
  1024. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Please re-read any references to spirituality and replace with its synonym of introspection and you'll see that you're actually agreeing with me.

    As regards the devil, it is sometimes a label used for the spaces between the light and sometimes used by ignorant people for light itself. I'm uninterested in theological arguments, I'm just telling you. I don't expect you to believe me, but I suggest you take it as a reasonable hypothesis for your consideration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I won’t get into any theological arguments with you Laxa, or anyone else for that matter. But if you write about a specific belief system, and your aim is simply to express your subjective opinions, then perhaps you would consider avoiding sweeping affirmations such as “there is no spirituality there (in Islam). Of course Islam is spiritual. What isn’t ? Regarding the Devil, in the monistic metaphysics, this entity is part of the plan. It is not truly an adversary, more of a controlled opposition. So I don’t disagree with your take.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Your objection is semantic. You are using a different definition of spiritual than me. I used it as a synonym for introspection. The meaning behind my words is what is important. You may continue to insist on only address them by your definitions, but you'll be missing the point that you agree with what I wrote and will be continuing to introduce discord for no benefit.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1025. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Well, sure, Islam as it is now is something that will be rejected by future generations who are coming from a place of greater health, but I’m not sure that means Islam will simply be discarded – it can equally well just be modified, reconceived, reimagined to suit a healthier generation.
     
    Anything can happen. And I would be perfectly content with this happening, but, I think, the full colour evidence of the barbarity will be too persuasive in favour of junking everything associated with it.

    Secular humanism and technology seems not to have brought the promised happiness and are in the process of losing credibility as a world-explaining system
     
    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well. People may want more, but they'll have to do some hard individual work on top of that. Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.

    the old religions, at their core, do indeed contain the answer for the “human problem” – the answer being metaphysical and in the dispelling of ignorance about our true condition, as has always been maintained.
     
    Everything contains that. Even you!

    So I do, personally, wonder what the future holds. Perhaps David Bentley Harts vision of small spiritual communities from each tradition living in proximity and engaging in spiritual exchange but also with each tradition learning to both reconnect with what’s best in its past and reach towards the future and develop in new ways – after all, who says religion is a “finished” product?
     
    I'm not saying that such spiritual neuroticism and hiding from the rest of life doesn't have value for particular people in particular times and places, but it is not going to be more than a transitory process for a minority of individuals.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well.

    I’m happy to hear you say this 🙂 For some time, they had been seen as Gods. As salvation – especially technology. Some people still see them this way.

    I do hope the more limited function you ascribe to them is the emerging sensibility of the coming age. In that limited role, I’d be happy to grant them legitimacy in any economy of life – with some modifications and limitations, of course.

    In that book by Rambachan I’m reading, he discusses traditional Hindu notions of the purpose of life – apparently, the pursuit of wealth, power, fame, and pleasure were considered perfectly legitimate provided they were done morally and ethically, in traditional Hindu society (in stark contrast to Christianity, which considered wealth to be a serious spiritual impediment).

    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man’s existential pain and sorrow – what the Buddhists call “dukkha”. No amount of finite gains can satisfy man’s ache for the infinite.

    For that, one turns to religion.

    People may want more, but they’ll have to do some hard individual work on top of that.

    People need more. And yes, much individual hard work must be done in this area.

    Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.

    This is, unfortunately, the perpetual temptation that must be fought. This website, and it’s owner, may be regarded as a haven for people who have not been able to resist this temptation.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man’s existential pain and sorrow – what the Buddhists call “dukkha”. No amount of finite gains can satisfy man’s ache for the infinite.
     
    Sounds like a perfectly good time to exit the Buddhist path and to enter into the Christian path of Theosis.

    You can find a certain amount of apostate practicers of Buddhism that make the progression into Christian Orthodoxy quite seamlessly. If I understand Buddhism at all, it seems to me that the Buddha himself wouldn't mind in the least way?...

    https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/smiling-buddha-260nw-105125189.jpg
    Could it be that the Buddha is smiling because he finally experienced Theosis?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  1026. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I won't get into any theological arguments with you Laxa, or anyone else for that matter. But if you write about a specific belief system, and your aim is simply to express your subjective opinions, then perhaps you would consider avoiding sweeping affirmations such as "there is no spirituality there (in Islam). Of course Islam is spiritual. What isn't ? Regarding the Devil, in the monistic metaphysics, this entity is part of the plan. It is not truly an adversary, more of a controlled opposition. So I don't disagree with your take.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Your objection is semantic. You are using a different definition of spiritual than me. I used it as a synonym for introspection. The meaning behind my words is what is important. You may continue to insist on only address them by your definitions, but you’ll be missing the point that you agree with what I wrote and will be continuing to introduce discord for no benefit.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You are using a different definition of spiritual than me.
     
    So when you wrote that "there is no spirituality in Islam" you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?

    Do you nevertheless allow them some degree of sentience ?

    And no, I am not insisting on having a debate about Islam. I don't really care about it one way or another. I just think that we shouldn't adopt an anything goes attitude when we criticize belief systems that we dislike for whatever reason.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  1027. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    He is going to Make Russia Great Again.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/The_Russian_Empire_at_it%27s_greatest_extent%21.png

    Did you know that if you go to the unz front page widget and list the threads with the top comments for the last month the top 3 are karlinstan open threads?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @QCIC

    Russia is very far North and this is an essential part of her geopolitical core in my opinion.

    See the map of permafrost here:

    https://www.nornickel.com/sustainability/climate-change/permafrost/

  1028. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Proven reserves are not recoverable reserves.

    Anyway, it is all about EROI (Energy Recovered on Energy Invested). If you need more energy to extract energy than you get useful energy from extracting, it is game over.

    EROI of oil has dramatically fallen, from 100-80 on early Pennsylvania fields years ago to 10-8 on shale now. It is reflected in prices, in reducing the Main Street share of economy in favour of Wall Street etc. It is important to grasp this is energy problem, not financial problem.

    http://euanmearns.com/eroei-for-beginners/
    The greatest risk to human society today is the notion that we can somehow replace high ERoEI fossil fuels with new renewable energies like solar PV and biofuels. These exist within the energy web because they are subsidised by the co-existing high ERoEI fossil fuels. The subsidy occurs at multiple levels from fossil fuels used to create the renewable devices and biofuels to fossil fuels providing the load balancing services. Fossil fuels provide the monetary wealth to pay the subsidies.

    Anyway, oil production (crude oil) has been oscillating around 80 Mb/day for some time already. We are on plateau.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Petroleum is a finite commodity, but the “shale boom” is probably just getting started on a worldwide basis. The economy of scale is relatively poor compared to conventional oil, but there is a lot of it.

    I’m not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.

    • Agree: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    I’m not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.
     
    I mostly concur.

    Proper breeder reactors such as LFTR are ideal and quite safe. Thorium is currently considered waste, so there are hundreds (probably thousands) of years of fuel on hand.

    Breeding U238-->Pu239 is technically sound, however there are many concerns about covert weaponization down that path. It is a manageable issue, but there are those who would inflame the public with marginal to fake science. Imagine what a nuclear Fauci would be like.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  1029. @Beckow
    @AP

    There is a lot of outright nonsense in what your write (I will address it), but it is a coherent view-point: Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn't have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.

    It would be - based on how the war goes - a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country hoping to get into EU (and get subsidies) and probably with some stand-off agreement between Nato and Russia, that Nato would again violate in 20-30 years. It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, 'tourists' would visit for the bars and security conferences. It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).

    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine? Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers, who sells them trinkets, how many people can leave - none of that is of any interest to Nato. Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That's what they want - you not seeing it is extremely naive. They would also like Crimea (strategic), and they will use the Ukies to fight for as much of it as they can make them - and die in large numbers.

    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe). Its main enemy and is Russia. There is an element of chicken-and-egg, who did what first, who reacted. But Nato is not in Ukraine with $100's billions for Zelensky wife's pretty eyes. You denying it makes you into a useful moron, only focused on his silly ethnic-language dreams. If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.

    Regarding your denials: 'but they postponed it year after year!" - are you really that stupid? That's how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances. Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha...good one). That's exactly the same approach with Nato and Ukraine. A careful game to win.

    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato. But it is pointless to try to convince you: you are either a lying ideologue (why, this is a discussion forum?) or you simply don't know how the world works.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha…good one).

    This seems to be one of Mike Whitney’s points that he brings up in his latest piece, that I find to be funny too, although I find the idea to be quite possible. This is how I replied to him yesterday at his blogsite:

    we can be 100% certain that Scholz knew what the overall game-plan was. The plan was to lure Russia into a war in Ukraine and then claim “Unprovked aggression”. Scholz knew it, Hollande knew it, Zelensky knew it, Boris Johnson knew it, Petro Poroshenko knew it and Biden knew it. They all knew it.

    Everybody in the world knew it, except poor, poor Putler (what a moron!). No wonder he ended up sacking the head of the FSB’s Fifth Service and hundreds of their underlings in May of 2023. Don’t know if the new gang of spooks is any better than the ones that were replaced. LOL. RIP.

  1030. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Your objection is semantic. You are using a different definition of spiritual than me. I used it as a synonym for introspection. The meaning behind my words is what is important. You may continue to insist on only address them by your definitions, but you'll be missing the point that you agree with what I wrote and will be continuing to introduce discord for no benefit.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    You are using a different definition of spiritual than me.

    So when you wrote that “there is no spirituality in Islam” you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?

    Do you nevertheless allow them some degree of sentience ?

    And no, I am not insisting on having a debate about Islam. I don’t really care about it one way or another. I just think that we shouldn’t adopt an anything goes attitude when we criticize belief systems that we dislike for whatever reason.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool


    So when you wrote that “there is no spirituality in Islam” you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?
     
    No, those two statements are not "basically" the same. Marxism does not allow for non-materialist explanations, nevertheless plenty of Marxists believe in horoscopes. A theology or ideology is not the same thing as its followers, even if it encourages certain tendencies in them and discourages others, often leading to strong contrasts with people who do not follow that theology/ideology.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.
     
    I dislike the human propensity towards friction, born of ignorance and low perception. An ideology that encourages disgust, moralistic repetition and the solispism of judgement, while not even pushing its adherents to introspect, will add fuel to this propensity which I dislike.

    And I dislike it because it causes the adherents suffering, makes them vindictively take it out on others, including me, and ultimately is not something I am able to do. Indeed, as soon as I perceive these so-called feelings like jealousy/envy as opposed to greed, disgust as opposed to compassion and rage as opposed to assertiveness, they disappear, because they're illusions and cannot exist within perception. They exist, instead, on the edges of limited perception. You'd be better off labelling them Satanic* and submitting them to light, rather than anything you can talk to or make a true connection with.

    All this is evidenced, in a way that you can here engage with, in the strong correlation between a country or community strongly adhering to Islam and existing in a miserable state of projection and resentment. Muslim men most frequently treat women like sh*t, because they're jealous. Muslim women most frequently treat their sons like objects because of rage, and Muslims in general most frequently treat whatever other they can find that's different with disgust. The result is that the most committed Muslims were in ISIS, and other genuinely Satanic organisations,with "Satanic" according to my previous definition.

    Does this mean there aren't lots of Muslims which I admire? No. Does it means that all don't deserve love and compassion? No. In fact, they only know what they know and unfortunately for them do not realise that their ideology of adherence is so often misguiding them, even if it is all fine in the long-run, as their behaviour now, will motivate their descendants to do the opposite.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1031. @LatW
    @songbird


    Honestly, had no idea about the connection.
     
    For some reason I thought he was Irish. What is his nationality? Irish German maybe?

    To use a bad word, I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it. If he is a bad troll, than he serves as an example, to get people to troll better. I don’t think we should disregard trolling totally.
     
    Well, you asked what our problem with him was - he's obviously a troll, but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists. I sometimes feel sad for America that these types take advantage of America's capitalist culture to just make money by running their crazy websites. Obviously, there is a market for it out there. There is a little something for everybody.

    I guess I almost have a libertarian view of it
     
    That one has a libertarian view is not the issue as long as one takes responsibility. You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care. I don't personally care (as long as it is kept within the Anglo sphere), but in the overall picture it is not good.

    One of the things that makes me saddest is what seems like the inability of Europeans to reclaim their own cultural space. Just something that could be called European, and have the confidence to know that it is right to form something on your own, for your own people, with your own values and traditions.
     
    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely... What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn't? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn't?

    I want a culture that is assertive enough to maintain a mythology, a past, an idea of a separate present and a separate future, and that isn’t afraid to call people out on their shameless parasitism for insisting that we don’t have that right to have an assertive identity or to have an idea of a space, without them in it.
     
    I agree with you here, of course. But this needs to be cultivated. It doesn't appear or thrive on its own. It requires work.

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts, @songbird

    Irish German maybe?

    This is what I’d assume from his face, as well as learning he grew up in Ohio.

    but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists.

    Guilt by association is one of the worst ideas and modes of control. It is totally one-sided, and only operates on the Right. We need to be able to brush it off because the other side will always run false flags and use it dishonestly.

    [MORE]

    You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care.

    TBH, women are extremely conformist. The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won’t care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise. The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.) But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.

    It is not a war of ideas. Many are deranged or totally disingenuous – that is how the radical Left operates, and they need to be dismissed out of hand. They need insults returned for insults. I just saw a clip the other day of an Aussie facing off with some radicals on Australia Day, and he called one of them fat, and it was pretty funny. Good propaganda:

    But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?

    There’s lots of niche cultural products. There could hardly not be in the age of the internet. But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.

    I’ve said this before, and the Sinologists will hate me for it, but, if you go to China, you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King. That is because they own their cultural space better than we do. They make a lot of really terrible Monkey King movies. The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    TBH, women are extremely conformist.
     
    Women have to be conformist. This is how they are by nature (with some exceptions which is ok). This is totally normal and valuable - if women were not conformist, they couldn't nurture the children and their families. I'm so tired of people giving women these mixed messages in today's society. Do not rely on women, you are supposed to be taking care of them. Of course, today in the movement you need both, but in general terms you need to get over it.

    The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won’t care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise.
     
    This is why Anglin's view of masculinity is toxic, and won't get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.

    The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.)
     
    Yes. Of course, the definition of "strong men" will be up for endless discussion knowing modern people, lol.

    But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.
     
    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.

    But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.
     
    As I said, this is hard work. First, to create it and then to position it so that the left doesn't get to censor it. Essentially create a crypto-White culture. And, yes, it is like threading the needle. This is the kind of thing that needs to be pro-actively controlled and steered.


    you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King.
     
    From what little I've seen, Monkey King is indeed cool (if not a bit scary but I guess that's part of the appeal). Boys gravitate naturally towards such.

    The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.
     
    Absolutely. I agree with you on this. This should be easier since boys naturally gravitate to such things.
    But this needs to be done within the native culture. I've noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots. Kinds of just two extremes (by Anglo culture, I do not mean the native English culture, or the culture of the peoples of the British Isles, but the so called mass Anglo culture). I think in a native culture it would be more balanced. These heroes are still there.

    Replies: @songbird

  1032. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum'een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate. Alexis ds Tocqueville wrote of Algeria after the French conquest: "we cams and disorganized their traditional society". The level of literacy and culture fell abysmally under Western domination.

    Replies: @AP

    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate.

    The literacy they that Islam promotes seemingly requires the ability to read, but does not necessarily include understanding what is read:

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    Well, I have read the Qur'an many decades ago in a French translation by the Rector (Mufti) of La Grande mosquée de Paris, monsieur Dalil Boubkeur. The translation was parallel: a page in Arabic and a page in French. The French part was quite easy to understand, but obviously the Arabic was not because I did not understand the language and was not able to read the Arabic alphabet. And Muslims always insist that only those who master the language of the Prophet can truly appreciate the message.

    So I have tried to learn Arabic, but I gave up. It was very complicated, although quite logical. And our teacher, a Blackman of Algerian decent, who was an excellent and enthusiastic propagandist of the beauty of the Arabic language, poetry and literature, has made it perfectly clear that much of the Qur'an and ancient Arabic literature in general had a metaphorical meaning about it and quite often a large semantic field. Basically, just learning a few hundred or even thousand Arabic words and terms was not enough to appreciate the depth of the meaning.



    Obviously, becoming fluent in Arabic was not my goal and I didn't care enough about understanding Islam anyways so I gave up. But I understood that to be an Islamic intellectual, one should really get acquainted with Arabic language and its complexities. That was the case of the Islamic Golden Age literati .

    To just be Muslim however, one only needs to follow Shariah and place one's faith in God. It is entirely sufficient for Islamic notion of salvation.

    People were literate in Arabic in Islamic Golden Age times because it was both the language of religion, the language of law (it is an integral part if their religion) and the language of the medieval Islamic Globalization. If you spoke Arabic, you could trade everywhere between Cordoba and Kashgar. That was an important consideration for learning a language.

    So I guess Islam doesn't really require understanding Arabic and even less the detail of the message of the Scripture, but it is certainly considered beneficial if one becomes versed into the language and the Book.

    And the Muslim commenters might correct me if I am wrong in my opinion.

  1033. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    Don’t confuse lack of manners, with mental immaturity.
     
    Don't confuse being a sociopath with a lack of manners or being a troll. A sociopath displays no awareness of what drives him and has a heavily distorted view of the world, which serves him by rationalising his unpleasant self-harming behaviour.

    Have you never read Coates? He wrote for The Atlantic. I once asked what would happen, if someone took one of his articles back in time, and showed it to the editors in 1970 along with some proof that you were from the future, like a smartphone. His prose is very dystopian.
     
    Coates is an excellent writer who communicates what is in his head through the lossy medium of words without loss. This is a sublime skill. So, even though what he communicates is his own neuroticism and not trans-subjective reality, he makes it into a pseudo reality through his intense understanding of his neuroticism and ability to communicate it.

    Anglin merely throws a bunch of incoherent psychosis on the page for his Cluster B followers. He's been phoning it in for years. And Cluster Bs will generally just follow the person who most devalues those they are jealous of and who shows the least insight.

    Coates is superior to that like a healthy 40 year old is superior to an unhealthy 4 year old in mental function.

    And normal mainstream ideas like borders, hard work, and family and the nature of heritability are already marginalized,
     
    Borders, hard work and family are all part of the mainstream. Just because they are not emphasised as much as you would like, doesn't mean they are rejected. Try going to another developed country illegally. It'll be near infinitely harder than it would have been in 1900. Please do not distort reality to devalue those you are jealous of. Yes, this is just an ordinary amount of it, but the risk is that you become totally unmoored.

    Replies: @songbird

    Please do not distort reality to devalue those you are jealous of.

    You are Jewish – and a recent arrival at that. It is that simple. And that is why you were fantasizing about turning Arabs into Iranians, rather than deporting them.

    It is probably also why you are so animated on Russia vs. Ukraine, and why you idealize Ze.

  1034. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Secular humanism and technology do not rely on a promise of happiness for their legitimacy, but meeting the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Something they do exceptionally well.
     
    I'm happy to hear you say this :) For some time, they had been seen as Gods. As salvation - especially technology. Some people still see them this way.

    I do hope the more limited function you ascribe to them is the emerging sensibility of the coming age. In that limited role, I'd be happy to grant them legitimacy in any economy of life - with some modifications and limitations, of course.

    In that book by Rambachan I'm reading, he discusses traditional Hindu notions of the purpose of life - apparently, the pursuit of wealth, power, fame, and pleasure were considered perfectly legitimate provided they were done morally and ethically, in traditional Hindu society (in stark contrast to Christianity, which considered wealth to be a serious spiritual impediment).

    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man's existential pain and sorrow - what the Buddhists call "dukkha". No amount of finite gains can satisfy man's ache for the infinite.

    For that, one turns to religion.

    People may want more, but they’ll have to do some hard individual work on top of that.
     
    People need more. And yes, much individual hard work must be done in this area.

    Rather than just blaming whatever shadowy impersonal scapegoat they happen to fixate on.
     
    This is, unfortunately, the perpetual temptation that must be fought. This website, and it's owner, may be regarded as a haven for people who have not been able to resist this temptation.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man’s existential pain and sorrow – what the Buddhists call “dukkha”. No amount of finite gains can satisfy man’s ache for the infinite.

    Sounds like a perfectly good time to exit the Buddhist path and to enter into the Christian path of Theosis.

    You can find a certain amount of apostate practicers of Buddhism that make the progression into Christian Orthodoxy quite seamlessly. If I understand Buddhism at all, it seems to me that the Buddha himself wouldn’t mind in the least way?…
    Could it be that the Buddha is smiling because he finally experienced Theosis?

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Mr. Hack

    They are all the same Path :)

    But seriously, why limit myself? Why not utilize insights from all the paths? There are some things in Buddhism that are hard to get in Christianity, and vice versa.

    I think all the paths are true - including Islam, which gets such a bad rap here.

    I also wonder what, specifically, it would mean, to choose one path. What would I do differently.

    I'm not a temple or church going kind of guy, and besides I dislike most organized religion..

  1035. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    You are using a different definition of spiritual than me.
     
    So when you wrote that "there is no spirituality in Islam" you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?

    Do you nevertheless allow them some degree of sentience ?

    And no, I am not insisting on having a debate about Islam. I don't really care about it one way or another. I just think that we shouldn't adopt an anything goes attitude when we criticize belief systems that we dislike for whatever reason.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    So when you wrote that “there is no spirituality in Islam” you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?

    No, those two statements are not “basically” the same. Marxism does not allow for non-materialist explanations, nevertheless plenty of Marxists believe in horoscopes. A theology or ideology is not the same thing as its followers, even if it encourages certain tendencies in them and discourages others, often leading to strong contrasts with people who do not follow that theology/ideology.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.

    I dislike the human propensity towards friction, born of ignorance and low perception. An ideology that encourages disgust, moralistic repetition and the solispism of judgement, while not even pushing its adherents to introspect, will add fuel to this propensity which I dislike.

    And I dislike it because it causes the adherents suffering, makes them vindictively take it out on others, including me, and ultimately is not something I am able to do. Indeed, as soon as I perceive these so-called feelings like jealousy/envy as opposed to greed, disgust as opposed to compassion and rage as opposed to assertiveness, they disappear, because they’re illusions and cannot exist within perception. They exist, instead, on the edges of limited perception. You’d be better off labelling them Satanic* and submitting them to light, rather than anything you can talk to or make a true connection with.

    All this is evidenced, in a way that you can here engage with, in the strong correlation between a country or community strongly adhering to Islam and existing in a miserable state of projection and resentment. Muslim men most frequently treat women like sh*t, because they’re jealous. Muslim women most frequently treat their sons like objects because of rage, and Muslims in general most frequently treat whatever other they can find that’s different with disgust. The result is that the most committed Muslims were in ISIS, and other genuinely Satanic organisations,with “Satanic” according to my previous definition.

    Does this mean there aren’t lots of Muslims which I admire? No. Does it means that all don’t deserve love and compassion? No. In fact, they only know what they know and unfortunately for them do not realise that their ideology of adherence is so often misguiding them, even if it is all fine in the long-run, as their behaviour now, will motivate their descendants to do the opposite.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, that's very subjective. But that's okay, everything we perceive is. I hope your negative feelings towards Islam do not spoil your enjoyment of a good shishkebab...

    🙂

  1036. @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Only, they are limited and finite ends that are not able to cure man’s existential pain and sorrow – what the Buddhists call “dukkha”. No amount of finite gains can satisfy man’s ache for the infinite.
     
    Sounds like a perfectly good time to exit the Buddhist path and to enter into the Christian path of Theosis.

    You can find a certain amount of apostate practicers of Buddhism that make the progression into Christian Orthodoxy quite seamlessly. If I understand Buddhism at all, it seems to me that the Buddha himself wouldn't mind in the least way?...

    https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/smiling-buddha-260nw-105125189.jpg
    Could it be that the Buddha is smiling because he finally experienced Theosis?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    They are all the same Path 🙂

    But seriously, why limit myself? Why not utilize insights from all the paths? There are some things in Buddhism that are hard to get in Christianity, and vice versa.

    I think all the paths are true – including Islam, which gets such a bad rap here.

    I also wonder what, specifically, it would mean, to choose one path. What would I do differently.

    I’m not a temple or church going kind of guy, and besides I dislike most organized religion..

  1037. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate.
     
    The literacy they that Islam promotes seemingly requires the ability to read, but does not necessarily include understanding what is read:

    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1624821684309004288?s=20&t=6mKonr-6IJ9aEmyLnxkcGg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Well, I have read the Qur’an many decades ago in a French translation by the Rector (Mufti) of La Grande mosquée de Paris, monsieur Dalil Boubkeur. The translation was parallel: a page in Arabic and a page in French. The French part was quite easy to understand, but obviously the Arabic was not because I did not understand the language and was not able to read the Arabic alphabet. And Muslims always insist that only those who master the language of the Prophet can truly appreciate the message.

    So I have tried to learn Arabic, but I gave up. It was very complicated, although quite logical. And our teacher, a Blackman of Algerian decent, who was an excellent and enthusiastic propagandist of the beauty of the Arabic language, poetry and literature, has made it perfectly clear that much of the Qur’an and ancient Arabic literature in general had a metaphorical meaning about it and quite often a large semantic field. Basically, just learning a few hundred or even thousand Arabic words and terms was not enough to appreciate the depth of the meaning.

    [MORE]

    Obviously, becoming fluent in Arabic was not my goal and I didn’t care enough about understanding Islam anyways so I gave up. But I understood that to be an Islamic intellectual, one should really get acquainted with Arabic language and its complexities. That was the case of the Islamic Golden Age literati .

    To just be Muslim however, one only needs to follow Shariah and place one’s faith in God. It is entirely sufficient for Islamic notion of salvation.

    People were literate in Arabic in Islamic Golden Age times because it was both the language of religion, the language of law (it is an integral part if their religion) and the language of the medieval Islamic Globalization. If you spoke Arabic, you could trade everywhere between Cordoba and Kashgar. That was an important consideration for learning a language.

    So I guess Islam doesn’t really require understanding Arabic and even less the detail of the message of the Scripture, but it is certainly considered beneficial if one becomes versed into the language and the Book.

    And the Muslim commenters might correct me if I am wrong in my opinion.

    • Thanks: AP
  1038. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool


    So when you wrote that “there is no spirituality in Islam” you basically wrote that Muslims are incapable of introspection?
     
    No, those two statements are not "basically" the same. Marxism does not allow for non-materialist explanations, nevertheless plenty of Marxists believe in horoscopes. A theology or ideology is not the same thing as its followers, even if it encourages certain tendencies in them and discourages others, often leading to strong contrasts with people who do not follow that theology/ideology.

    BTW what is it that you dislike so much in Islam ? Just being curious, feel free not answering if it is too personal a question.
     
    I dislike the human propensity towards friction, born of ignorance and low perception. An ideology that encourages disgust, moralistic repetition and the solispism of judgement, while not even pushing its adherents to introspect, will add fuel to this propensity which I dislike.

    And I dislike it because it causes the adherents suffering, makes them vindictively take it out on others, including me, and ultimately is not something I am able to do. Indeed, as soon as I perceive these so-called feelings like jealousy/envy as opposed to greed, disgust as opposed to compassion and rage as opposed to assertiveness, they disappear, because they're illusions and cannot exist within perception. They exist, instead, on the edges of limited perception. You'd be better off labelling them Satanic* and submitting them to light, rather than anything you can talk to or make a true connection with.

    All this is evidenced, in a way that you can here engage with, in the strong correlation between a country or community strongly adhering to Islam and existing in a miserable state of projection and resentment. Muslim men most frequently treat women like sh*t, because they're jealous. Muslim women most frequently treat their sons like objects because of rage, and Muslims in general most frequently treat whatever other they can find that's different with disgust. The result is that the most committed Muslims were in ISIS, and other genuinely Satanic organisations,with "Satanic" according to my previous definition.

    Does this mean there aren't lots of Muslims which I admire? No. Does it means that all don't deserve love and compassion? No. In fact, they only know what they know and unfortunately for them do not realise that their ideology of adherence is so often misguiding them, even if it is all fine in the long-run, as their behaviour now, will motivate their descendants to do the opposite.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Well, that’s very subjective. But that’s okay, everything we perceive is. I hope your negative feelings towards Islam do not spoil your enjoyment of a good shishkebab…

    🙂

  1039. @QCIC
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Petroleum is a finite commodity, but the "shale boom" is probably just getting started on a worldwide basis. The economy of scale is relatively poor compared to conventional oil, but there is a lot of it.

    I'm not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.

    Replies: @A123

    I’m not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.

    I mostly concur.

    Proper breeder reactors such as LFTR are ideal and quite safe. Thorium is currently considered waste, so there are hundreds (probably thousands) of years of fuel on hand.

    Breeding U238–>Pu239 is technically sound, however there are many concerns about covert weaponization down that path. It is a manageable issue, but there are those who would inflame the public with marginal to fake science. Imagine what a nuclear Fauci would be like.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    The LFTR (~liquid fluoride thorium reactor) as originally developed at Oak Ridge is pretty much an ideal reactor with one exception. It was basically the worst design imaginable in terms of proliferation and produced ready to use U-233 which is actually worse than plutonium in this respect. There are ways to work around this aspect which hopefully have been fleshed out. When I was a kid thorium reserves were thought to be good for tens of thousands of years.

    We don't have to imagine a nuclear Fauci, his name was Oppenheimer. The main difference is that Oppenheimer was apparently a highly competent physicist, while I think Fauci is just the world's most dangerous bureaucrat. Both seem to be psychopaths.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  1040. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Isn't all religion like this?

    From the religious pov, the Faustian spirit would be pure avidya - the quest to feel "full" through the accumulation of ever more physical objects is always doomed to failure, and moreover, based on ignorance of the fact that atman is Brahman.

    All religion is based on some version of this insight - the Kingdom is within you, not in the accumulation of physical objects out there, etc.

    I'm reading a remarkable and very lucid little book on Vedanta by Rambachan right now, and he has a wonderful formulation of the religious quest, taken, I think, from Hindu tradition - to gain the already gained, to accomplish the already accomplished :)

    Which is just another way of saying, really - "wake up"!

    In various forms, I'm familiar with this formulation - after all, in the Diamond Sutra the Buddha stresses that one does not gain a single thing from enlightenment, and Huang Po, later on, says it is like looking for a jewel that was always attached to ones forehead.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Well, many belief systems are not monistic (although Advaita certainly is). And Faustian attitude of the Western mind is not necessarily materialistic. Agree about the Zen / Ch’an part of your comment, however it is not worth discussing given how obvious it is.

  1041. @Beckow
    @AP

    There is a lot of outright nonsense in what your write (I will address it), but it is a coherent view-point: Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn't have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.

    It would be - based on how the war goes - a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country hoping to get into EU (and get subsidies) and probably with some stand-off agreement between Nato and Russia, that Nato would again violate in 20-30 years. It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, 'tourists' would visit for the bars and security conferences. It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).

    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine? Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers, who sells them trinkets, how many people can leave - none of that is of any interest to Nato. Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That's what they want - you not seeing it is extremely naive. They would also like Crimea (strategic), and they will use the Ukies to fight for as much of it as they can make them - and die in large numbers.

    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe). Its main enemy and is Russia. There is an element of chicken-and-egg, who did what first, who reacted. But Nato is not in Ukraine with $100's billions for Zelensky wife's pretty eyes. You denying it makes you into a useful moron, only focused on his silly ethnic-language dreams. If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.

    Regarding your denials: 'but they postponed it year after year!" - are you really that stupid? That's how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances. Merkel and Holland both confirmed last December that they were tricking Russia and stalling (haha...good one). That's exactly the same approach with Nato and Ukraine. A careful game to win.

    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato. But it is pointless to try to convince you: you are either a lying ideologue (why, this is a discussion forum?) or you simply don't know how the world works.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    I replied in the new Open Thread, here:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-209/#comment-5812346

  1042. @Coconuts
    @S


    He [Kevin MacDonald] was possibly the first (the only ?) among the academics to identify cultural marxism with a weaponized psychology directed at disintegrating the structure of the family and the social bonds of a competing population. Basically, Jewish higher-middle class competes with the European-descended higher-middle class for the economic status, wealth and the possibility to climb higher into the elite…A good and useful read.
     
    Here is Charles Maurras describing something like that:

    What is democratism? A practical man will ask who in France professes this abstract doctrine and, since it reigns, who are the men upon whom its power depends? The most cursory examination of the situation allows one to provide an answer – it is not simply professed by a group of individuals. Individual men would never have been able to find a way to carry out such a tour de force and make its results endure. Consider that the greatest, most ancient and venerable spiritual power on one hand, and on the other, physical force, those who bear the sword, who march with the rifle and those who direct the canons, all are kept at bay and persecuted by a simple set of ideas and institutions – democracy!

    A group of individuals would have weakened, become divided, fallen into arguments and destroyed each other in the course of administering this institution and system. So we are driven to suppose that something else must underpin it, some organisation or group of organisations, specifically historic organisations, physical or psychological families, with a shared will, state of mind and feelings passed down from father to son over long centuries, somewhat like the guilds or dynasties of old.

    Jewish and metic dynasties.

    Foreign dynasties, such as those which fomented the French Revolution.
     

    I think the original text is pre-1914.

    'Metic' here refers mainly to Germans. Maurras often argued that democratic and liberal doctrines were promoted by Judeo-Germanic familial dynasties inside France to expand their power at the expense of the majority.

    In Western Europe after 1945 I think ideas like this became taboo in academia because of the obvious associations. Maurras himself ended up in prison after the war.

    Replies: @S

    Thanks for the excerpt. I was not aware of Charles Maurras. WWII certainly was a disaster for Europeans as a whole.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @S

    I've posted a reply to you and our friend Coconuts on the new thread.

  1043. @S
    @Coconuts

    Thanks for the excerpt. I was not aware of Charles Maurras. WWII certainly was a disaster for Europeans as a whole.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I’ve posted a reply to you and our friend Coconuts on the new thread.

  1044. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    BAP is of course also a major troll. That is the problem we have: is there anyone serious left defending Western/European civilization in a way that would appeal to the younger minds. Because if there isn't, then we might as well consider this civilization as already defunct. It is just a matter of time before it is definitely erased.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    BAP is of course also a major troll. That is the problem we have: is there anyone serious left defending Western/European civilization in a way that would appeal to the younger minds. Because if there isn’t, then we might as well consider this civilization as already defunct. It is just a matter of time before it is definitely erased.

    This is a good question. I think there are, but they are still not as well known as they could be. For example, I don’t get why someone like Alain de Benoist isn’t better known on the Anglo dissident right, because the Nouvelle Droite started thinking about these problems some decades ago. Various of his books have been translated and are sold by Arktos but I don’t hear them being discussed that much.

    There is a developing Anglo ‘post-liberal’ sphere that is more serious and closer to the mainstream or the real world than BAP, and it seems to me Benoist And GRECE could fit to the right of that.

    When I think back now the things which made me aware of European civilisation when I was growing up mostly seem to be fading, it feels like a different era even though it is not that long ago really. I know my wife still believes in a European ideal, I noticed this with other Belarusians, and not one based on grievance or larping. I wonder if over time it will give rise to something.

  1045. @Another Polish Perspective
    @S

    UFOs are real, but this time they are fake. Apparently they cant manoeuvre now, not even speaking about defending themselves etc.

    They used to claim that real UFOs are some top-secret USA crafts, so they can claim that false UFOs are real UFOs now.

    Anyway, I read years ago that USA tried to shoot down UFOs many times, with zero success. But they cannot say something like that to general public (there is a problem with no solution here), so they created situation in which they shoot them down one by one - carefully over some desolated waters, so no one can check what they really are.

    Maybe it is a way to prepare some sort of soft disclosure, though. The news are clearly for general public this time.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @S

    I’ll reply to this in the new thread.

  1046. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Right. But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?
     
    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, 'European culture and history is irrelevant because it was created by white men and should be replaced with Aboriginal or Haitian mythology and lesbian earth mother cult etc.'

    Lately things in this vein have been gaining (or been granted) greater cultural traction and prominence. Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive, sometimes there is some zealotry and year-zero feel to it.

    It is done in a serious spirit by people with some social standing and power who seem to show a studied surprise that any of it could be considered controversial, and it does make bizarre claims as well as touching on serious issues like demographic change. IMO this makes it a honey pot for trolling.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:


    I was convinced to write this book by certain frogs who told me, “Is it not a shame that hucksters are multiplying lies, and jizzing their filthy doctrines into receptive minds everywhere? Perversions—lame ones—are born by the thousands and haunt, like myriad cripplette midgets in halls of mirrors, they haunt the world, books, the internet. Minds are lost. If you wait any longer everything will be pounded to garbage, there will be nothing left —it will all turn, the whole world will turn to a Bulgarian rest stop lavatory. But have you seen the movie Midnight Express...and...and how did it make you feel?”

    I was roused from my slumber by my frog friends and I declare to you, with great boldness, that I am here to save you from a great ugliness.
     

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    This is probably more a developing issue in the Anglosphere, maybe some other parts of Europe at the moment.

    I simply disagree that there is no modern European culture. Anglosphere is, of course, a particular case, but overall I disagree with songbird on this issue. I also view culture very broadly, not just movies and books. To me architecture, classical culture, fashion, family life, regional culture, all those are included under “culture”.

    Every EU country pretty much has a local culture, yes, a lot of it is tarnished and damaged by the woke, but not all. I’m not saying we’re not in a precarious situation, but being such a downer just makes things worse.

    Another thing that bugs me about these alt-right types is the constant whining. I have dedicated private funds to non-woke cultural projects, why can’t they?

    I would think the attention figures like Anglin are able to attract is related to what is going on at the other end of the political spectrum where there are the year-zero tribal feminist diversity types, ‘

    I’m not entirely convinced it’s that simple. I think it’s a more destructive impulse, above all, I believe he is just trying to make money by being scandalous. He is only destroying the Western civilization. If he wants to do that, he can do it in his own backyard, not mine. Thus I believe such should be banned in the EU (and he would be). And what ticks me off, is that if it were to take place and he got banned, then everyone the alt right would scream he got banned because he is far right. By having such figures we distort the whole definition of what far right means, when we should be much more consistent with it, we should walk the straight and narrow (pun not intended).

    And, no, Anglin is not a national socialist (even though he uses these symbols in vain). He is a wrecker, plain and simple.

    Large numbers of weighty cultural institutions have been feeling a need to diversify and decolonise themselves and signal they are trans and non-binary inclusive

    Maybe it’s time to leave those institutions in large numbers. I know it’s not easy. But maybe it’s time.

    Bronze Age Pervert does similar stuff but aims at a different audience:

    Bronze Age Pervert I have nothing against and almost kind of like. What little I read, appealed to me. He has a winner’s vibe, not a loser’s one, like Anglin. BAP promotes healthy masculinity so his ethos is much better. Granted, I haven’t read him much, this is just my impression from a few tweets that I skimmed through.

  1047. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Sorry Laxa, but you don’t know much about Islam. Which is okay, nobody has to waste their time learning about exotic cults and belief systems if they are not as foolish as I am.

    Islam is basically the ultimate form of transcendental Monism. Pushed to its extremes, there is nothing there to attain, except for the acceptance of and by an ineffable God.

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    This metaphysics entails stasis. A true Mu'meen should be quite content looking after his goats ans sheep if it was not for external perturbations caused mostly by those who are outside Allah's grace and approval.

    Regarding the Devil, in Islam he is the purest monotheist because he only accepted to prostrate in front of the Creator and not in front of a creature (humankind). Interestingly enough, God punished him because the fallen archangel followed the monistic metaphysics to its logical conclusions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @LatW

    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.

    Great. In that case, they should stay out of the EU. Nothing to gain for them there. Right?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    True Mu'meens should not accept being ruled by the unbelievers. It's either Dar el Harb (the war zone) or Dar el Islam (the peace zone, Islamic land). Therefore, all Muslims accepting unbeliever rule are not Muslims anymore. They are hypocrites - munafeekoon. Unless they prepare the future Fath (opening - conquest of the land). This is Shariah. And this is what hard-core Islamists admit openly.

  1048. @songbird
    @LatW


    Irish German maybe?
     
    This is what I'd assume from his face, as well as learning he grew up in Ohio.

    but the problem is is that he uses certain concepts and symbols in vain and thus tarnishes all nationalists.
     
    Guilt by association is one of the worst ideas and modes of control. It is totally one-sided, and only operates on the Right. We need to be able to brush it off because the other side will always run false flags and use it dishonestly.

    You may not care that what he writes about women is deeply alienating, but others care.
     
    TBH, women are extremely conformist. The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won't care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise. The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.) But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.

    It is not a war of ideas. Many are deranged or totally disingenuous - that is how the radical Left operates, and they need to be dismissed out of hand. They need insults returned for insults. I just saw a clip the other day of an Aussie facing off with some radicals on Australia Day, and he called one of them fat, and it was pretty funny. Good propaganda:
    https://twitter.com/undisputedcha14/status/1625121791030042624?s=20&t=F1q7HJrKrC5iEfgnERPa0w

    But how well do you know the European culture to claim that this is the case definitely… What is mass culture, as you say? Only famous movies? Choir music that is enjoyed by many people isn’t? Modern architecture that is inspired by the beauty of nature isn’t?
     
    There's lots of niche cultural products. There could hardly not be in the age of the internet. But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.

    I've said this before, and the Sinologists will hate me for it, but, if you go to China, you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King. That is because they own their cultural space better than we do. They make a lot of really terrible Monkey King movies. The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.

    Replies: @LatW

    TBH, women are extremely conformist.

    Women have to be conformist. This is how they are by nature (with some exceptions which is ok). This is totally normal and valuable – if women were not conformist, they couldn’t nurture the children and their families. I’m so tired of people giving women these mixed messages in today’s society. Do not rely on women, you are supposed to be taking care of them. Of course, today in the movement you need both, but in general terms you need to get over it.

    The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won’t care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise.

    This is why Anglin’s view of masculinity is toxic, and won’t get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.

    The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.)

    Yes. Of course, the definition of “strong men” will be up for endless discussion knowing modern people, lol.

    But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.

    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.

    But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.

    As I said, this is hard work. First, to create it and then to position it so that the left doesn’t get to censor it. Essentially create a crypto-White culture. And, yes, it is like threading the needle. This is the kind of thing that needs to be pro-actively controlled and steered.

    you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King.

    From what little I’ve seen, Monkey King is indeed cool (if not a bit scary but I guess that’s part of the appeal). Boys gravitate naturally towards such.

    The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.

    Absolutely. I agree with you on this. This should be easier since boys naturally gravitate to such things.
    But this needs to be done within the native culture. I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots. Kinds of just two extremes (by Anglo culture, I do not mean the native English culture, or the culture of the peoples of the British Isles, but the so called mass Anglo culture). I think in a native culture it would be more balanced. These heroes are still there.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @LatW


    This is why Anglin’s view of masculinity is toxic, and won’t get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.
     
    LatW, I have this theory about words that I have never articulated before, so I will give it to you:

    I believe that philology has an extreme and serious deficiency. It is too focused in the deep past and even in prehistory. We can dream about extinct languages, and I can't say that that is uninteresting, but we must admit we have a big blindspot. The words with some of the most power, that form part of the explanation for where we are now: modern political words and who coined them.

    I believe that if we made a list of the buzzwords of the Left. Very few, and possibly none were coined by people on the Right. No model family men, or model wives. Not Europeans who loved and wanted to perpetuate their people. Not even foreigners who wanted the same in their own lands. Instead, degenerates and outsiders. Hostiles looking to undermine and dissolve social bonds, and to destroy traditional norms. Or, at the very least, people who didn't care about them, who tore down old marbles, so they could burnt them into lime. Materialists, instead of spiritualists. Hedonists, instead of ascetics. Atheists, instead of theists. Non-Christians, instead of Christians.

    I think we should endeavor to understand the origin of all such words and avoid using them, nearly as if we had a sacred vow of silence. These are words worse than curses. When we speak, we must seek to speak our own words, the true speech, and not the forked-tongue of the foreigner, or of the exile, for there is a cost to it. Each word is a key, to unlocking a gate that makes up our defense.

    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity. You may or may not know the company Gillette, which is part of a multinational but with its HQ in Boston. Here is an advert that they actually ran:

    https://youtu.be/UYaY2Kb_PKI

    Is that something you want to promote? Seems a tool of feminists meant to bully and demoralize men, to soften them up, and make them weak and pliable, so they can be used for the regime's purposes. Interestingly, the word did not originate with feminists, or I think other outsiders, though it meant something different.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

    But, personally, I would find this guy problematic enough. He wanted to get men to reject a warrior-ethos. I may not be a warrior, and I may not desire anarchy, but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors. I will not read accounts of them, ambushing enemies, or fighting against odds, and say that they had "toxic masculinity", and should have just farmed and become the servants of other people.

    Just to give one other example, something more demonstrative, I believe it was a lesbian who came up with the term incel. (perhaps, she even meant well? But Confucius was not a lesbo, but a man with children) And I am sure that you can apply the same philology to other powerful political words, without me needing to be so gauche as to name them myself and point out their origin.

    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.
     
    Some good can come even from bad men. If he is a wreck, than perhaps, we can take some salvage from it? If he is entirely unapologetic in toto, then maybe we could be entirely unapologetic specifically about what we believe in? I'm afraid that the typical European, man or woman, of our present age is shrinking violet, too ready to give in to the perceived offense of the thin-skinned, the malice-filled, and the insane.

    I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots.
     
    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy. Aren't the bigots just the people like Enoch Powell, Buchanan, and Mosley, who were right all along?

    Essentially create a crypto-White culture.
     
    This sort of already exists, though I am afraid in a far from ideal form. Japanese culture doesn't promote diversity generally, and there is a little bit more a representation of traditional sex roles in it. Of course, even if it was better than it was today (often degenerate), it would still be very niche, and low status in the West, due to the stigma of various things, such as cartoons being thought only for children.

    Replies: @LatW

  1049. @A123
    @QCIC


    I’m not a big fan of fission energy, but the world could be powered by breeder reactors in fifty years if this were necessary. Once the world is more electrified, petroleum is used for petrochemicals and niche transportation roles. This was all figured out a long time ago.
     
    I mostly concur.

    Proper breeder reactors such as LFTR are ideal and quite safe. Thorium is currently considered waste, so there are hundreds (probably thousands) of years of fuel on hand.

    Breeding U238-->Pu239 is technically sound, however there are many concerns about covert weaponization down that path. It is a manageable issue, but there are those who would inflame the public with marginal to fake science. Imagine what a nuclear Fauci would be like.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    The LFTR (~liquid fluoride thorium reactor) as originally developed at Oak Ridge is pretty much an ideal reactor with one exception. It was basically the worst design imaginable in terms of proliferation and produced ready to use U-233 which is actually worse than plutonium in this respect. There are ways to work around this aspect which hopefully have been fleshed out. When I was a kid thorium reserves were thought to be good for tens of thousands of years.

    We don’t have to imagine a nuclear Fauci, his name was Oppenheimer. The main difference is that Oppenheimer was apparently a highly competent physicist, while I think Fauci is just the world’s most dangerous bureaucrat. Both seem to be psychopaths.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @QCIC

    I am currently working with a Thorium supplier. We estimate taht there is enough Thorium above ground to supply world electrical demand for 300 years at present levels and thousands of years with new mining. India has a disproportionate share and has been planning to shift to Thorium since the 1960s according to their current design specialists. (This may be just an excuse for their accumulation of plutonium). India is building a reactor. China is following. There are reactor proposals in Europe and Canada (UK firm moved in pursuit of a less regulated environment). A Danish firm has put forward a design for the UK to approve for the SMR programme.

    Molten salt is preferred as a coolant.

    Of course the big market may not be electrical generation but red hydrogen for transport. Japan has developed a Sulphur Iodine process, just add water, heat and catalysts, to produce hydrogen. Nukes can provide the heat.

    Replies: @QCIC

  1050. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    There is simply no room for technical progress in that worldview. It comes as useless and futile. Except for following the Shariah a good Muslim needs nothing. God would take care of everything else and provide what God pleases.
     
    Great. In that case, they should stay out of the EU. Nothing to gain for them there. Right?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    True Mu’meens should not accept being ruled by the unbelievers. It’s either Dar el Harb (the war zone) or Dar el Islam (the peace zone, Islamic land). Therefore, all Muslims accepting unbeliever rule are not Muslims anymore. They are hypocrites – munafeekoon. Unless they prepare the future Fath (opening – conquest of the land). This is Shariah. And this is what hard-core Islamists admit openly.

  1051. @LatW
    @songbird


    TBH, women are extremely conformist.
     
    Women have to be conformist. This is how they are by nature (with some exceptions which is ok). This is totally normal and valuable - if women were not conformist, they couldn't nurture the children and their families. I'm so tired of people giving women these mixed messages in today's society. Do not rely on women, you are supposed to be taking care of them. Of course, today in the movement you need both, but in general terms you need to get over it.

    The mass of them will only be won over by their men (and those that are still won’t care for Anglin), and we should not pretend otherwise.
     
    This is why Anglin's view of masculinity is toxic, and won't get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.

    The ideal should be to try to make strong men. (And really the only reason to object to Anglin is if one believes he interferes with this.)
     
    Yes. Of course, the definition of "strong men" will be up for endless discussion knowing modern people, lol.

    But, at least in a very limited sense, this means exposure to trolls and developing a thick skin and the ability to troll.
     
    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.

    But there is a distinction with mass culture, which is a powerful invention of the modern age, and which the biggest part of is undeniably mainstream vidya, with its representational images.
     
    As I said, this is hard work. First, to create it and then to position it so that the left doesn't get to censor it. Essentially create a crypto-White culture. And, yes, it is like threading the needle. This is the kind of thing that needs to be pro-actively controlled and steered.


    you will see Chinese boys everywhere pretending to be the Monkey King.
     
    From what little I've seen, Monkey King is indeed cool (if not a bit scary but I guess that's part of the appeal). Boys gravitate naturally towards such.

    The test of culture to me would be if European boys everywhere were pretending to be European heroes, but they are not.
     
    Absolutely. I agree with you on this. This should be easier since boys naturally gravitate to such things.
    But this needs to be done within the native culture. I've noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots. Kinds of just two extremes (by Anglo culture, I do not mean the native English culture, or the culture of the peoples of the British Isles, but the so called mass Anglo culture). I think in a native culture it would be more balanced. These heroes are still there.

    Replies: @songbird

    This is why Anglin’s view of masculinity is toxic, and won’t get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.

    LatW, I have this theory about words that I have never articulated before, so I will give it to you:

    [MORE]

    I believe that philology has an extreme and serious deficiency. It is too focused in the deep past and even in prehistory. We can dream about extinct languages, and I can’t say that that is uninteresting, but we must admit we have a big blindspot. The words with some of the most power, that form part of the explanation for where we are now: modern political words and who coined them.

    I believe that if we made a list of the buzzwords of the Left. Very few, and possibly none were coined by people on the Right. No model family men, or model wives. Not Europeans who loved and wanted to perpetuate their people. Not even foreigners who wanted the same in their own lands. Instead, degenerates and outsiders. Hostiles looking to undermine and dissolve social bonds, and to destroy traditional norms. Or, at the very least, people who didn’t care about them, who tore down old marbles, so they could burnt them into lime. Materialists, instead of spiritualists. Hedonists, instead of ascetics. Atheists, instead of theists. Non-Christians, instead of Christians.

    I think we should endeavor to understand the origin of all such words and avoid using them, nearly as if we had a sacred vow of silence. These are words worse than curses. When we speak, we must seek to speak our own words, the true speech, and not the forked-tongue of the foreigner, or of the exile, for there is a cost to it. Each word is a key, to unlocking a gate that makes up our defense.

    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity. You may or may not know the company Gillette, which is part of a multinational but with its HQ in Boston. Here is an advert that they actually ran:

    Is that something you want to promote? Seems a tool of feminists meant to bully and demoralize men, to soften them up, and make them weak and pliable, so they can be used for the regime’s purposes. Interestingly, the word did not originate with feminists, or I think other outsiders, though it meant something different.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

    But, personally, I would find this guy problematic enough. He wanted to get men to reject a warrior-ethos. I may not be a warrior, and I may not desire anarchy, but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors. I will not read accounts of them, ambushing enemies, or fighting against odds, and say that they had “toxic masculinity”, and should have just farmed and become the servants of other people.

    Just to give one other example, something more demonstrative, I believe it was a lesbian who came up with the term incel. (perhaps, she even meant well? But Confucius was not a lesbo, but a man with children) And I am sure that you can apply the same philology to other powerful political words, without me needing to be so gauche as to name them myself and point out their origin.

    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.

    Some good can come even from bad men. If he is a wreck, than perhaps, we can take some salvage from it? If he is entirely unapologetic in toto, then maybe we could be entirely unapologetic specifically about what we believe in? I’m afraid that the typical European, man or woman, of our present age is shrinking violet, too ready to give in to the perceived offense of the thin-skinned, the malice-filled, and the insane.

    I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots.

    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy. Aren’t the bigots just the people like Enoch Powell, Buchanan, and Mosley, who were right all along?

    Essentially create a crypto-White culture.

    This sort of already exists, though I am afraid in a far from ideal form. Japanese culture doesn’t promote diversity generally, and there is a little bit more a representation of traditional sex roles in it. Of course, even if it was better than it was today (often degenerate), it would still be very niche, and low status in the West, due to the stigma of various things, such as cartoons being thought only for children.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity.
     
    I think that he is definitely one example that fits this term. I don't throw such words around easily - and, no, I don't even think in such terms. I like masculinity.

    But I don't have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is. The kind of language he spouts is harmful and I don't want that kind of language and ideas around my loved ones.

    This Gillette ad is very different from what I tried to say. So you're saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?

    Just because some leftists came up with some terms that you don't like, doesn't mean they cannot be applied where it's truly fitting.


    And btw my objection to Anglin wasn't about his misogyny (which I could care less, he's not one of my own!) but his larping as a national socialist - which he is not! Nowhere near. He doesn't fulfill even the very basic of national socialist standards. That was my peeve with him not so much his loser misogynist rants. And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he's a race traitor as well.


    but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors.
     
    Where did I expect you to do that? As if any one of us does not love their ancestors. As if anyone here is giving up on them. As if you are more "true" and loyal than others here.

    If you can't separate simple things such as some trashy internet personality without ethical norms who deserves to be called "toxic" and harmful vs some woke BS, then sorry. You really missed a very simple point I was trying to make. This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind, no moral fortitude (except maybe running from the FBI which I'm not even sure in his case was that bad). He totally deserves to be called toxic, we can go ahead and call him a "toxic person", if that makes you feel better, but it wouldn't convey what really needs to be conveyed here.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call "toxic masculinity" too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he's totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.

    I don't call other nationalists these kinds of names, only those who truly deserve it as I use this kind of language carefully (or not at all) and guess what - I will use whatever language I want because I have enough agency to control it and to differentiate where it's used simply descriptively and where it's used for social control.

    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy.
     

    No, this is exactly the problem. A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists. All the nationalist men that I admire are just not like that. They are not petty like this Anglin dude, they are balanced and much more dignified.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

  1052. @songbird
    @LatW


    This is why Anglin’s view of masculinity is toxic, and won’t get you anywhere. It will only alienate women who are already alienated.
     
    LatW, I have this theory about words that I have never articulated before, so I will give it to you:

    I believe that philology has an extreme and serious deficiency. It is too focused in the deep past and even in prehistory. We can dream about extinct languages, and I can't say that that is uninteresting, but we must admit we have a big blindspot. The words with some of the most power, that form part of the explanation for where we are now: modern political words and who coined them.

    I believe that if we made a list of the buzzwords of the Left. Very few, and possibly none were coined by people on the Right. No model family men, or model wives. Not Europeans who loved and wanted to perpetuate their people. Not even foreigners who wanted the same in their own lands. Instead, degenerates and outsiders. Hostiles looking to undermine and dissolve social bonds, and to destroy traditional norms. Or, at the very least, people who didn't care about them, who tore down old marbles, so they could burnt them into lime. Materialists, instead of spiritualists. Hedonists, instead of ascetics. Atheists, instead of theists. Non-Christians, instead of Christians.

    I think we should endeavor to understand the origin of all such words and avoid using them, nearly as if we had a sacred vow of silence. These are words worse than curses. When we speak, we must seek to speak our own words, the true speech, and not the forked-tongue of the foreigner, or of the exile, for there is a cost to it. Each word is a key, to unlocking a gate that makes up our defense.

    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity. You may or may not know the company Gillette, which is part of a multinational but with its HQ in Boston. Here is an advert that they actually ran:

    https://youtu.be/UYaY2Kb_PKI

    Is that something you want to promote? Seems a tool of feminists meant to bully and demoralize men, to soften them up, and make them weak and pliable, so they can be used for the regime's purposes. Interestingly, the word did not originate with feminists, or I think other outsiders, though it meant something different.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

    But, personally, I would find this guy problematic enough. He wanted to get men to reject a warrior-ethos. I may not be a warrior, and I may not desire anarchy, but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors. I will not read accounts of them, ambushing enemies, or fighting against odds, and say that they had "toxic masculinity", and should have just farmed and become the servants of other people.

    Just to give one other example, something more demonstrative, I believe it was a lesbian who came up with the term incel. (perhaps, she even meant well? But Confucius was not a lesbo, but a man with children) And I am sure that you can apply the same philology to other powerful political words, without me needing to be so gauche as to name them myself and point out their origin.

    No, it involves having strong moral boundaries when it comes to basic things and to not be a moral wreck like this Anglin guy.
     
    Some good can come even from bad men. If he is a wreck, than perhaps, we can take some salvage from it? If he is entirely unapologetic in toto, then maybe we could be entirely unapologetic specifically about what we believe in? I'm afraid that the typical European, man or woman, of our present age is shrinking violet, too ready to give in to the perceived offense of the thin-skinned, the malice-filled, and the insane.

    I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots.
     
    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy. Aren't the bigots just the people like Enoch Powell, Buchanan, and Mosley, who were right all along?

    Essentially create a crypto-White culture.
     
    This sort of already exists, though I am afraid in a far from ideal form. Japanese culture doesn't promote diversity generally, and there is a little bit more a representation of traditional sex roles in it. Of course, even if it was better than it was today (often degenerate), it would still be very niche, and low status in the West, due to the stigma of various things, such as cartoons being thought only for children.

    Replies: @LatW

    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity.

    I think that he is definitely one example that fits this term. I don’t throw such words around easily – and, no, I don’t even think in such terms. I like masculinity.

    But I don’t have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is. The kind of language he spouts is harmful and I don’t want that kind of language and ideas around my loved ones.

    This Gillette ad is very different from what I tried to say. So you’re saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?

    Just because some leftists came up with some terms that you don’t like, doesn’t mean they cannot be applied where it’s truly fitting.

    [MORE]

    And btw my objection to Anglin wasn’t about his misogyny (which I could care less, he’s not one of my own!) but his larping as a national socialist – which he is not! Nowhere near. He doesn’t fulfill even the very basic of national socialist standards. That was my peeve with him not so much his loser misogynist rants. And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he’s a race traitor as well.

    but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors.

    Where did I expect you to do that? As if any one of us does not love their ancestors. As if anyone here is giving up on them. As if you are more “true” and loyal than others here.

    If you can’t separate simple things such as some trashy internet personality without ethical norms who deserves to be called “toxic” and harmful vs some woke BS, then sorry. You really missed a very simple point I was trying to make. This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind, no moral fortitude (except maybe running from the FBI which I’m not even sure in his case was that bad). He totally deserves to be called toxic, we can go ahead and call him a “toxic person”, if that makes you feel better, but it wouldn’t convey what really needs to be conveyed here.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call “toxic masculinity” too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he’s totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.

    I don’t call other nationalists these kinds of names, only those who truly deserve it as I use this kind of language carefully (or not at all) and guess what – I will use whatever language I want because I have enough agency to control it and to differentiate where it’s used simply descriptively and where it’s used for social control.

    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy.

    No, this is exactly the problem. A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists. All the nationalist men that I admire are just not like that. They are not petty like this Anglin dude, they are balanced and much more dignified.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    BAP is Gay. His nationalism is of a "Pink Swastika" kind. Nothing bad about it, love is love and all. Especially on a St Valentine's Day !

    🙂

    Replies: @songbird

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    But I don’t have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is.
     
    We have a limited capacity for outrage. IMO, you should save your outrage for the people who deserve it, and not waste it on a clown, living on the run in God-knows-where.

    So you’re saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?
     
    Don't you get it, LatW? It is not one ad. It's an all-pervasive ideology, spewing like a firehose-fountain from the Anglophone world. It even effects little boys in school, who they try to dope up with drugs, and take recess away from.

    And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he’s a race traitor as well.
     
    I'm skeptical of the idea that Anglin is so influential that he can turn Euro males away from Euro females.

    Yes, there may be problems here, in terms of people not dating or getting married, but Anglin is not the cause, and we shouldn't scapegoat him.

    This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind
     
    he sounds like he deserves pity, rather than anger.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call “toxic masculinity” too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he’s totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.
     
    BAP is a flaming homosexual. A Zionist, and probably some type of Israeli agent. IMO, he deserves total condemnation just for his murder of the English language.

    A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists.
     
    Well, if they weren't "bigots", then I suppose they would need to be "civic nationalists." One problem with that is that it can't really articulate a meaningful reason to close the borders, or for preserving the sovereignty or even existence of European people.
  1053. @LatW
    @songbird


    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity.
     
    I think that he is definitely one example that fits this term. I don't throw such words around easily - and, no, I don't even think in such terms. I like masculinity.

    But I don't have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is. The kind of language he spouts is harmful and I don't want that kind of language and ideas around my loved ones.

    This Gillette ad is very different from what I tried to say. So you're saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?

    Just because some leftists came up with some terms that you don't like, doesn't mean they cannot be applied where it's truly fitting.


    And btw my objection to Anglin wasn't about his misogyny (which I could care less, he's not one of my own!) but his larping as a national socialist - which he is not! Nowhere near. He doesn't fulfill even the very basic of national socialist standards. That was my peeve with him not so much his loser misogynist rants. And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he's a race traitor as well.


    but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors.
     
    Where did I expect you to do that? As if any one of us does not love their ancestors. As if anyone here is giving up on them. As if you are more "true" and loyal than others here.

    If you can't separate simple things such as some trashy internet personality without ethical norms who deserves to be called "toxic" and harmful vs some woke BS, then sorry. You really missed a very simple point I was trying to make. This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind, no moral fortitude (except maybe running from the FBI which I'm not even sure in his case was that bad). He totally deserves to be called toxic, we can go ahead and call him a "toxic person", if that makes you feel better, but it wouldn't convey what really needs to be conveyed here.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call "toxic masculinity" too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he's totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.

    I don't call other nationalists these kinds of names, only those who truly deserve it as I use this kind of language carefully (or not at all) and guess what - I will use whatever language I want because I have enough agency to control it and to differentiate where it's used simply descriptively and where it's used for social control.

    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy.
     

    No, this is exactly the problem. A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists. All the nationalist men that I admire are just not like that. They are not petty like this Anglin dude, they are balanced and much more dignified.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    BAP is Gay. His nationalism is of a “Pink Swastika” kind. Nothing bad about it, love is love and all. Especially on a St Valentine’s Day !

    🙂

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool

    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.

    When I was younger and more naive, I used to think that such a thing was impossible, but it seems to be such a part of Japanese culture, that I can only believe that it really represents something that truly exists.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms "bigot" and "national socialism." I suspect that it is something that could only be done in Eastern Europe. Nobody in America would think of it. Probably nobody in Western Europe.

    The same must be the case with "toxic masculinity." I'd guess that feminism just isn't as weaponized over there. Yet. These things take time to develop, and America is on the cutting edge.

    Replies: @LatW

  1054. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    BAP is Gay. His nationalism is of a "Pink Swastika" kind. Nothing bad about it, love is love and all. Especially on a St Valentine's Day !

    🙂

    Replies: @songbird

    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.

    When I was younger and more naive, I used to think that such a thing was impossible, but it seems to be such a part of Japanese culture, that I can only believe that it really represents something that truly exists.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms “bigot” and “national socialism.” I suspect that it is something that could only be done in Eastern Europe. Nobody in America would think of it. Probably nobody in Western Europe.

    The same must be the case with “toxic masculinity.” I’d guess that feminism just isn’t as weaponized over there. Yet. These things take time to develop, and America is on the cutting edge.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.
     
    Of course, I know he's not a real person (namely, doesn't live the way he portrays in his tweets), and, of course, I know that he posts a ton of stuff that looks "homoerotic" or whatever, I simply like some of his takes and all those references to the classical culture and, yea, I don't mind the pics. I did not see any male on male pics on his Twitter, but only classical Adonis type pics.

    Why, is that bad? I've read only several of his tweets so I can't speak for all, I simply don't know enough about him.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms “bigot” and “national socialism.”
     
    There's nothing strange about it at all, pure hatred of someone or something without the real national socialist substance is really not worth that much. An empty barrel reverberates far, as we say, meaning, it is loud shrieking, without much real work that brings long term results.

    Replies: @songbird

  1055. @LatW
    @songbird


    You have basically just employed the term toxic masculinity.
     
    I think that he is definitely one example that fits this term. I don't throw such words around easily - and, no, I don't even think in such terms. I like masculinity.

    But I don't have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is. The kind of language he spouts is harmful and I don't want that kind of language and ideas around my loved ones.

    This Gillette ad is very different from what I tried to say. So you're saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?

    Just because some leftists came up with some terms that you don't like, doesn't mean they cannot be applied where it's truly fitting.


    And btw my objection to Anglin wasn't about his misogyny (which I could care less, he's not one of my own!) but his larping as a national socialist - which he is not! Nowhere near. He doesn't fulfill even the very basic of national socialist standards. That was my peeve with him not so much his loser misogynist rants. And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he's a race traitor as well.


    but I will not give up admiring the exploits of some of my ancestors.
     
    Where did I expect you to do that? As if any one of us does not love their ancestors. As if anyone here is giving up on them. As if you are more "true" and loyal than others here.

    If you can't separate simple things such as some trashy internet personality without ethical norms who deserves to be called "toxic" and harmful vs some woke BS, then sorry. You really missed a very simple point I was trying to make. This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind, no moral fortitude (except maybe running from the FBI which I'm not even sure in his case was that bad). He totally deserves to be called toxic, we can go ahead and call him a "toxic person", if that makes you feel better, but it wouldn't convey what really needs to be conveyed here.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call "toxic masculinity" too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he's totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.

    I don't call other nationalists these kinds of names, only those who truly deserve it as I use this kind of language carefully (or not at all) and guess what - I will use whatever language I want because I have enough agency to control it and to differentiate where it's used simply descriptively and where it's used for social control.

    Who is a bigot today? Can a nationalist really use that word unironically? IMO, seems a tool of the enemy.
     

    No, this is exactly the problem. A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists. All the nationalist men that I admire are just not like that. They are not petty like this Anglin dude, they are balanced and much more dignified.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    But I don’t have to tolerate the kind of BS that comes from this Anglin and I have a right to call him out for what he is.

    We have a limited capacity for outrage. IMO, you should save your outrage for the people who deserve it, and not waste it on a clown, living on the run in God-knows-where.

    So you’re saying because there is a Gillette ad like that (which I admit is a too pushy & should not have been made), then women (or anyone) should tolerate stuff like Anglin?

    Don’t you get it, LatW? It is not one ad. It’s an all-pervasive ideology, spewing like a firehose-fountain from the Anglophone world. It even effects little boys in school, who they try to dope up with drugs, and take recess away from.

    [MORE]

    And, yes, real nationalist men love white women, so he’s a race traitor as well.

    I’m skeptical of the idea that Anglin is so influential that he can turn Euro males away from Euro females.

    Yes, there may be problems here, in terms of people not dating or getting married, but Anglin is not the cause, and we shouldn’t scapegoat him.

    This Anglin dude is a loser who tries to make money online by writing scandalous crap, while harming society, he has no wife nor white kids, no achievements of any kind

    he sounds like he deserves pity, rather than anger.

    Guess what, BAP has what they call “toxic masculinity” too probably according to some feminists, but I still like him and think he’s totally ok. BAP is normal unlike Anglin. I think you are deliberately not seeing that difference there.

    BAP is a flaming homosexual. A Zionist, and probably some type of Israeli agent. IMO, he deserves total condemnation just for his murder of the English language.

    A lot of so called Western nationalists are in fact just bigots and not nationalists.

    Well, if they weren’t “bigots”, then I suppose they would need to be “civic nationalists.” One problem with that is that it can’t really articulate a meaningful reason to close the borders, or for preserving the sovereignty or even existence of European people.

  1056. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Alright AP Katsaps are devils and Khokhols are saints
     
    In this case, post-2014 and especially 2022, yes.

    Just remember, the Wendat and the Mohawk also felt justified scalping each other. And then the Pale Faces came and took their lands
     
    I don’t disagree but the blame here rests squarely with Putin. He was the one who chose invasion and war. It isn’t Americans killing Slavs in any significant numbers, but Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans are doing it. He’s even bringing in Africans to kill Slavs:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/african-fighters-ukraine-allegedly-abandoned-russian-commanders-2022-12

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    Putin’s Chechens, Buryats and Tuvans

    Maybe this would be attractive commenting for Fox News people in America, but you are writing in the forum of anti-war Russians?

    It’s like if I was saying to anti-war Americans during the Vietnam war, that the Vietnam War is a problem because America was using native Americans in the American military.

    The reason they are in the professional army, is because they need to feed their families and there is relative lack of jobs and investment in their area. It’s nothing very special (underinvested and asset-stripped people need to go to the army for the salaries).

    Chechens

    If you don’t hate the sound of Chechen jihadis imitating American rock music, and chords from Nirvana, they could write the music for the last year in 1996
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhurN9tm4Jk.

    And 70% or so of people in Russia support this.

    You have access for much more diverse views and information than most Buryats or Tuvans and you were promoting the satire article about Putin like the text was not a joke. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn/#comment-4928594

    Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature

    You are not a 10 year old school boy.

    twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod,

    It’s a typical dictator system, that has a “tradition” in Russia, but is usually in relatively less developed countries. But Germany, Spain, Portugal and Italy even had this until recently, although not with a life expectancy continuing beyond around Abba’s second album. A lot of South America, most of Africa today, most Europe until the end of the 18th century or middle of 19th century, was mostly dictators.

    Remember you were promoting this government in Russia until a bit more than a year ago.

    Poles are our brothers.

    Generally Poles especially from the conservative side of their political spectrum, have significantly more of the anti-Ukraine views than most of the European nations, where there are the opposite views (most of Western Europe has an idolization of Ukraine nowadays). Obviously the special situation now for Poland where Ukraine is killing Poland’s most important enemy, which is the Russian military.

  1057. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    Because liberals care about their nations sometimes more than nonliberals, or probably not more or less. After all, Scandinavian countries are the most politically liberal in the world, and they have more of the people doing civic or patriotic duty than most countries in the world.
     
    It can be the case that liberals and non-liberals have different definitions of what a nation is:

    Nationalist: '...the nation is not the product of a certain number of individuals living at one given moment and having in common certain ideas, certain passing fancies, but of a certain number of families reaching out from age to age and having in common certain permanent interests; the land to be defended, the continuity of the race to be assured, a fund of moral and economic capital to be developed'.

    Liberal: 'A considerable quantity of people inhabiting a certain area of country defined by its borders and which obeys the same government'. Or a nation is an agregation of free and equal individuals who form a community to maximise their freedom (the nation as instrument of human emancipation idea).

    Perhaps the Scandinavian examples can be described in different ways. Either they represent a human ideal because they have a greater sense of folk community, or they represent a human ideal because they have internalised universal rational values more deeply. It's hard to tell given Germanic Northern European countries have been seen as a model or ideal in terms of patriotic/civic duty for a long time, even back into the 18th and 19th centuries when they were not modern liberal regimes.

    At the moment my impression of the Russian regime is that it is still characterised by a type of statism on autopilot, where as yet there isn't a strong ideal based on something like folk community, nor an animating ideal based on some form of universal belief system. The elites maintain a state and a government for the people but seem somewhat detached from it, with as much interest in their personal concerns as the Res Publica.

    Maybe the war will alter this, in his tweets Karlin seemed to be hoping for it earlier on last year. I think German_Reader used to criticise him about it, arguing that war shouldn't be instrumentalised to try to create a healthy national ideal.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Nationalist, Liberal: ‘

    Nationalism was part of liberalism, in those epoch when these were important ideologies in Europe. It’s based in the concept of national self-determination, which is part of the category of freedom.

    Historically, the conservatives in Europe usually support empires and religions, oppose nations. They will support the larger multinational categories, which people need to obey, which represent a multinational elite (this was the aristocracy, church).

    Nationalism is connected to Republican government, rule of the people, often anti-elite ideology. It was an ideology which was dangerous for the old elite.

    It’s in 21st century, Great Britain, there has been a reverse. EU in Brussels, is viewed as the new kind of Catholic church in Rome. Conservative Party has been supporting Brexit, viewed as a kind of national-liberation.

    While nationalists of Scotland and Ireland are supporting the EU like the 16th century politicians supporting the Pope in Rome.

    Scandinavian examples can be described in different ways. Either they represent a human ideal because they have a greater sense of folk community, .. Russian regime is that it is still characterised by a type of statism on autopilot, where as yet there isn’t a strong ideal based on something like folk community,

    I think in some countries you give something to the society and the society returns something, or at least you work isn’t supposed to buy champagne in Monaco. But in other countries, it buys the champagne in Monaco.

    In terms of Russia, we have this historical path, where I think it’s a kind of binary. In Soviet times, the money was going to the pay for the country, but sometimes in a bit nonrational ways, to build thousands of missiles or space program, to invest in Vorkuta. But in postsoviet times, it goes to Monaco.

    So, now there feels this sense of the extreme choice from the state, between prioritization in the rational and hedonistic (postsoviet) or prioritization in the nonhedonistic and irrational (Soviet).

  1058. @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool

    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.

    When I was younger and more naive, I used to think that such a thing was impossible, but it seems to be such a part of Japanese culture, that I can only believe that it really represents something that truly exists.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms "bigot" and "national socialism." I suspect that it is something that could only be done in Eastern Europe. Nobody in America would think of it. Probably nobody in Western Europe.

    The same must be the case with "toxic masculinity." I'd guess that feminism just isn't as weaponized over there. Yet. These things take time to develop, and America is on the cutting edge.

    Replies: @LatW

    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.

    Of course, I know he’s not a real person (namely, doesn’t live the way he portrays in his tweets), and, of course, I know that he posts a ton of stuff that looks “homoerotic” or whatever, I simply like some of his takes and all those references to the classical culture and, yea, I don’t mind the pics. I did not see any male on male pics on his Twitter, but only classical Adonis type pics.

    Why, is that bad? I’ve read only several of his tweets so I can’t speak for all, I simply don’t know enough about him.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms “bigot” and “national socialism.”

    There’s nothing strange about it at all, pure hatred of someone or something without the real national socialist substance is really not worth that much. An empty barrel reverberates far, as we say, meaning, it is loud shrieking, without much real work that brings long term results.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @LatW


    Because he posts these types of visuals. Not because he’s gay. Sheesh.
     
    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did "trigger me" when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.

    (And I know this - gays lean into it - they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays. I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.

    Don't know much about BAP because I just can't stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides. But I do know enough to say that he is problematic. Some of his old tweets are pornographically homosexual.

    https://t.me/keith_woods/3697

    And there are strong rumors he is a Zionist agent. (I only vaguely recall some of it). Nick Fuentes (who I don't really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @LatW

  1059. @LatW
    @songbird


    The Japanese employ the term fujoshi (rotten girls) to describe the sort of women who like BAP. I think it is a self-label.
     
    Of course, I know he's not a real person (namely, doesn't live the way he portrays in his tweets), and, of course, I know that he posts a ton of stuff that looks "homoerotic" or whatever, I simply like some of his takes and all those references to the classical culture and, yea, I don't mind the pics. I did not see any male on male pics on his Twitter, but only classical Adonis type pics.

    Why, is that bad? I've read only several of his tweets so I can't speak for all, I simply don't know enough about him.

    I find it strange that LatW uses both the terms “bigot” and “national socialism.”
     
    There's nothing strange about it at all, pure hatred of someone or something without the real national socialist substance is really not worth that much. An empty barrel reverberates far, as we say, meaning, it is loud shrieking, without much real work that brings long term results.

    Replies: @songbird

    Because he posts these types of visuals. Not because he’s gay. Sheesh.

    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did “trigger me” when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.

    (And I know this – gays lean into it – they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays. I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.

    Don’t know much about BAP because I just can’t stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides. But I do know enough to say that he is problematic. Some of his old tweets are pornographically homosexual.

    https://t.me/keith_woods/3697

    And there are strong rumors he is a Zionist agent. (I only vaguely recall some of it). Nick Fuentes (who I don’t really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Calling yourself "Bronze Age


    Pervert
     
    " when it is not about extreme "authenticity" like making your weaponry from bronze you produce yourself with Bronze Age methods, is obviously a big red flag.
    , @LatW
    @songbird


    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did “trigger me” when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.
     
    I didn't endorse him in any way, since I haven't read enough, trust me, I have other, much better "models of masculinity".

    I simply said that compared to this Anglin guy, he seemed more appealing. I literally read just a couple of his tweets during the Trump era and the peak of the alt-right like back in 2016 or something, and I remember him writing something about working out in the sun and cultivating your body. And then some Nietzsche quotes and a statue of Apollo. That's it. But now that you mention, I did take a quick look at his Twitter and, yes, he does seem very gay, and seems also a bit manipulative, he posted a picture of a Roman Emperor and then a picture of a Roman Eagle with a letter N, saying "Last Emperor", in what looks like a reference to Nero. So it's problematic, and not the type of Roman references I'd prefer or would normally enjoy (as I believe only non-gay Emperors should be exalted, naturally).

    Anyway, I'd love to explore BAP a bit further, if I had the time, but I don't really need him, I have my own native cult of warrior masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.
     
    I don't think straight guys care about being "atomized" via homoeroticism. As to masculine bonding, this is not a problem at all, you just have to go out and hang out with other men. There is the National guard, hunter's groups and other similar venues.

    (And I know this – gays lean into it – they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)
     
    I know. They have no restraints like women do (women have hypergamy, "playing hard to get", being in love, etc). It's crazy. They should be kept away from LV, LT & UA men.

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays.
     
    No, there is not. They're out of control. I don't mind some flamboyant hair dresser and I have worked with gays. But they are totally out of control politically and aesthetically they often take it too far.

    I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.
     
    You know for sure he's gay? There's been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He's Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit "gay", I suppose, it's a beautiful accent that's quite delicate and they enunciate a bit more. I like Greg a lot and, yes, I agree, he is very discreet and non-pushy, we are close ideologically and he stood up for my people. So only the best wishes to Greg. And intellectually above those other two, I'd say.

    Don’t know much about BAP because I just can’t stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides.
     
    He is no Oscar Wilde. But even pidars can sometimes say something of value and post some cool pics.

    Nick Fuentes (who I don’t really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.
     
    Interesting. I hope it's not just another alt-right dirt flinging exercise. Nick Fuentes I don't mind, even though he uses the word "femoid" (I know what he means), but again, I don't know much about him. I watched a couple of his shows, didn't have any immediate objections. Seemed pretty mature for his age and somewhat ideologically consistent. Seemed very Christian fundy so not my type that way (I'm into pagans), but it's understandable for an American.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

  1060. @songbird
    @LatW


    Because he posts these types of visuals. Not because he’s gay. Sheesh.
     
    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did "trigger me" when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.

    (And I know this - gays lean into it - they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays. I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.

    Don't know much about BAP because I just can't stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides. But I do know enough to say that he is problematic. Some of his old tweets are pornographically homosexual.

    https://t.me/keith_woods/3697

    And there are strong rumors he is a Zionist agent. (I only vaguely recall some of it). Nick Fuentes (who I don't really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @LatW

    Calling yourself “Bronze Age

    Pervert

    ” when it is not about extreme “authenticity” like making your weaponry from bronze you produce yourself with Bronze Age methods, is obviously a big red flag.

    • Agree: songbird
  1061. @songbird
    @LatW


    Because he posts these types of visuals. Not because he’s gay. Sheesh.
     
    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did "trigger me" when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.

    (And I know this - gays lean into it - they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays. I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.

    Don't know much about BAP because I just can't stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides. But I do know enough to say that he is problematic. Some of his old tweets are pornographically homosexual.

    https://t.me/keith_woods/3697

    And there are strong rumors he is a Zionist agent. (I only vaguely recall some of it). Nick Fuentes (who I don't really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @LatW

    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did “trigger me” when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.

    I didn’t endorse him in any way, since I haven’t read enough, trust me, I have other, much better “models of masculinity”.

    I simply said that compared to this Anglin guy, he seemed more appealing. I literally read just a couple of his tweets during the Trump era and the peak of the alt-right like back in 2016 or something, and I remember him writing something about working out in the sun and cultivating your body. And then some Nietzsche quotes and a statue of Apollo. That’s it. But now that you mention, I did take a quick look at his Twitter and, yes, he does seem very gay, and seems also a bit manipulative, he posted a picture of a Roman Emperor and then a picture of a Roman Eagle with a letter N, saying “Last Emperor”, in what looks like a reference to Nero. So it’s problematic, and not the type of Roman references I’d prefer or would normally enjoy (as I believe only non-gay Emperors should be exalted, naturally).

    Anyway, I’d love to explore BAP a bit further, if I had the time, but I don’t really need him, I have my own native cult of warrior masculinity.

    [MORE]

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.

    I don’t think straight guys care about being “atomized” via homoeroticism. As to masculine bonding, this is not a problem at all, you just have to go out and hang out with other men. There is the National guard, hunter’s groups and other similar venues.

    (And I know this – gays lean into it – they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)

    I know. They have no restraints like women do (women have hypergamy, “playing hard to get”, being in love, etc). It’s crazy. They should be kept away from LV, LT & UA men.

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays.

    No, there is not. They’re out of control. I don’t mind some flamboyant hair dresser and I have worked with gays. But they are totally out of control politically and aesthetically they often take it too far.

    I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.

    You know for sure he’s gay? There’s been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He’s Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit “gay”, I suppose, it’s a beautiful accent that’s quite delicate and they enunciate a bit more. I like Greg a lot and, yes, I agree, he is very discreet and non-pushy, we are close ideologically and he stood up for my people. So only the best wishes to Greg. And intellectually above those other two, I’d say.

    Don’t know much about BAP because I just can’t stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides.

    He is no Oscar Wilde. But even pidars can sometimes say something of value and post some cool pics.

    Nick Fuentes (who I don’t really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.

    Interesting. I hope it’s not just another alt-right dirt flinging exercise. Nick Fuentes I don’t mind, even though he uses the word “femoid” (I know what he means), but again, I don’t know much about him. I watched a couple of his shows, didn’t have any immediate objections. Seemed pretty mature for his age and somewhat ideologically consistent. Seemed very Christian fundy so not my type that way (I’m into pagans), but it’s understandable for an American.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    About a boy named Andy.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/the-making-of-an-american-nazi/544119/

    (Although as Al Pacino said in the Devil's Advocate: "but consider the source...")

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    You know for sure he’s gay? There’s been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He’s Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit “gay”
     
    I consider my gaydar to be highly developed. (Hence, why I call Trudeau a tranny - seeing him speak is genuinely psychologically-disturbing for me)

    In the case of Johnson, it is in the voice. The high verbal, and a bit in his reactions. The way he never really speaks much about women. How he speaks of visiting his friends.

    I think he as discrete, as best as can be humanly expected. But it is generally pretty hard to hide. I think I would have been able to sniff out Eulenburg with his 8 kids. And you can get a whiff of it off people like Crowder and Millennial Woes, who appear to be still attracted to women, on some level.

    I'm thinking now about something very funny that my brother once said, years ago. About how "theater turned" a certain actor gay. It is funny because he played a character who was supposed to be pretty masculine. And the tell all came when he was talking about the role. If A123 is reading this, by any chance, he may be interested to know that I am talking about Avery Brooks.
  1062. @LatW
    @songbird


    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did “trigger me” when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.
     
    I didn't endorse him in any way, since I haven't read enough, trust me, I have other, much better "models of masculinity".

    I simply said that compared to this Anglin guy, he seemed more appealing. I literally read just a couple of his tweets during the Trump era and the peak of the alt-right like back in 2016 or something, and I remember him writing something about working out in the sun and cultivating your body. And then some Nietzsche quotes and a statue of Apollo. That's it. But now that you mention, I did take a quick look at his Twitter and, yes, he does seem very gay, and seems also a bit manipulative, he posted a picture of a Roman Emperor and then a picture of a Roman Eagle with a letter N, saying "Last Emperor", in what looks like a reference to Nero. So it's problematic, and not the type of Roman references I'd prefer or would normally enjoy (as I believe only non-gay Emperors should be exalted, naturally).

    Anyway, I'd love to explore BAP a bit further, if I had the time, but I don't really need him, I have my own native cult of warrior masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.
     
    I don't think straight guys care about being "atomized" via homoeroticism. As to masculine bonding, this is not a problem at all, you just have to go out and hang out with other men. There is the National guard, hunter's groups and other similar venues.

    (And I know this – gays lean into it – they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)
     
    I know. They have no restraints like women do (women have hypergamy, "playing hard to get", being in love, etc). It's crazy. They should be kept away from LV, LT & UA men.

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays.
     
    No, there is not. They're out of control. I don't mind some flamboyant hair dresser and I have worked with gays. But they are totally out of control politically and aesthetically they often take it too far.

    I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.
     
    You know for sure he's gay? There's been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He's Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit "gay", I suppose, it's a beautiful accent that's quite delicate and they enunciate a bit more. I like Greg a lot and, yes, I agree, he is very discreet and non-pushy, we are close ideologically and he stood up for my people. So only the best wishes to Greg. And intellectually above those other two, I'd say.

    Don’t know much about BAP because I just can’t stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides.
     
    He is no Oscar Wilde. But even pidars can sometimes say something of value and post some cool pics.

    Nick Fuentes (who I don’t really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.
     
    Interesting. I hope it's not just another alt-right dirt flinging exercise. Nick Fuentes I don't mind, even though he uses the word "femoid" (I know what he means), but again, I don't know much about him. I watched a couple of his shows, didn't have any immediate objections. Seemed pretty mature for his age and somewhat ideologically consistent. Seemed very Christian fundy so not my type that way (I'm into pagans), but it's understandable for an American.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    About a boy named Andy.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/the-making-of-an-american-nazi/544119/

    (Although as Al Pacino said in the Devil’s Advocate: “but consider the source…”)

  1063. @LatW
    @songbird


    I admit to a bit of trolling, but it did “trigger me” when you seemed to be promoting him as a model of masculinity.
     
    I didn't endorse him in any way, since I haven't read enough, trust me, I have other, much better "models of masculinity".

    I simply said that compared to this Anglin guy, he seemed more appealing. I literally read just a couple of his tweets during the Trump era and the peak of the alt-right like back in 2016 or something, and I remember him writing something about working out in the sun and cultivating your body. And then some Nietzsche quotes and a statue of Apollo. That's it. But now that you mention, I did take a quick look at his Twitter and, yes, he does seem very gay, and seems also a bit manipulative, he posted a picture of a Roman Emperor and then a picture of a Roman Eagle with a letter N, saying "Last Emperor", in what looks like a reference to Nero. So it's problematic, and not the type of Roman references I'd prefer or would normally enjoy (as I believe only non-gay Emperors should be exalted, naturally).

    Anyway, I'd love to explore BAP a bit further, if I had the time, but I don't really need him, I have my own native cult of warrior masculinity.

    This homoerotic stuff is bad for a number of reasons. One big reason being that the rumor of it is used to atomize men, and destroy normal masculine bonding, which is important because it helps men be tougher and learn from other men.
     
    I don't think straight guys care about being "atomized" via homoeroticism. As to masculine bonding, this is not a problem at all, you just have to go out and hang out with other men. There is the National guard, hunter's groups and other similar venues.

    (And I know this – gays lean into it – they absolutely love it and promote it because it is their fantasy and they have no restraints)
     
    I know. They have no restraints like women do (women have hypergamy, "playing hard to get", being in love, etc). It's crazy. They should be kept away from LV, LT & UA men.

    IMO, there is not enough policing against gays.
     
    No, there is not. They're out of control. I don't mind some flamboyant hair dresser and I have worked with gays. But they are totally out of control politically and aesthetically they often take it too far.

    I can accept someone like Greg Johnson, but he is not in your face about it, and not obscene and not promoting himself as a symbol of masculinity.
     
    You know for sure he's gay? There's been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He's Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit "gay", I suppose, it's a beautiful accent that's quite delicate and they enunciate a bit more. I like Greg a lot and, yes, I agree, he is very discreet and non-pushy, we are close ideologically and he stood up for my people. So only the best wishes to Greg. And intellectually above those other two, I'd say.

    Don’t know much about BAP because I just can’t stand him. His prose his horrible. His voice is a fake accent, and boring besides.
     
    He is no Oscar Wilde. But even pidars can sometimes say something of value and post some cool pics.

    Nick Fuentes (who I don’t really follow closely) is promoting some big expose on BAP, which he will release soon.
     
    Interesting. I hope it's not just another alt-right dirt flinging exercise. Nick Fuentes I don't mind, even though he uses the word "femoid" (I know what he means), but again, I don't know much about him. I watched a couple of his shows, didn't have any immediate objections. Seemed pretty mature for his age and somewhat ideologically consistent. Seemed very Christian fundy so not my type that way (I'm into pagans), but it's understandable for an American.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    You know for sure he’s gay? There’s been a lot of dirt thrown at him, undeservedly. He’s Washingtonian, so his accent might sound a bit “gay”

    I consider my gaydar to be highly developed. (Hence, why I call Trudeau a tranny – seeing him speak is genuinely psychologically-disturbing for me)

    In the case of Johnson, it is in the voice. The high verbal, and a bit in his reactions. The way he never really speaks much about women. How he speaks of visiting his friends.

    I think he as discrete, as best as can be humanly expected. But it is generally pretty hard to hide. I think I would have been able to sniff out Eulenburg with his 8 kids. And you can get a whiff of it off people like Crowder and Millennial Woes, who appear to be still attracted to women, on some level.

    I’m thinking now about something very funny that my brother once said, years ago. About how “theater turned” a certain actor gay. It is funny because he played a character who was supposed to be pretty masculine. And the tell all came when he was talking about the role. If A123 is reading this, by any chance, he may be interested to know that I am talking about Avery Brooks.

  1064. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    AP, do me a favor please. Re-read SNUFF and perhaps also the Love for three Zuckerbrins
     
    I haven’t read those, unfortunately. Here is Pelevin in 2017, about a Russian writer (Prilepin) who joined the Donbas rebels:

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/188861-Russian-writer-sparks-war-of-words-by-joining-Ukraine-rebels

    “When your books are shit, you have to earn money from terrorism."

    Have you read Bykov’s book Ж/Д? What did you think? It had Khazars and Varangians fighting over Russia.

    This whole painful situation should never have happened. It is hurting and dehumanizing people
     
    When I compared Russians to orcs this was not in physical terms (Russians, especially their women, are beautiful) but politically. As Tolkien’s elves were through subjugation and torture twisted and transformed into repulsive orcs, so did something go really wrong in Suzdalia-Muscovy. In fantasy literature this can be expressed physically, for humans in the real world it is more internal. In daily life, interpersonally, Russians are typically kind, decent, nice. They are the same Slavs as Poles or Ukrainians, they are not aliens as Germans can be. The twist was focused on relationship to power, an instinct for often cruel despotism. It was the Muscovites who thoroughly destroyed the nascent nation of Novgorod, who for the most part obeyed the German interloper Catherine as she enserfsd them more and more, who cherish and worship Stalin, who support this destructive invasion of Ukraine. They need their Khan. Politically and collectively they are the renegades of the Slavs, the Slav-killers.

    One of the greatest historical tragedies, comparable to the destruction of Byzantium, the Arab conquest of Persia, the Reformation, the Revolution, the world wars, was the failed Union of Rzeczpospolita and Muscovy that would have saved Russia from Eurasia.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Philip Owen

    The failed emancipation of the serfs has been an important factor in shaping Russian views to authority. Official Nationalism (Nicholas I) and the USSR didn’t halp with attitudes to foreigners either, nor the rewriting of WW2 history.

  1065. @QCIC
    @A123

    The LFTR (~liquid fluoride thorium reactor) as originally developed at Oak Ridge is pretty much an ideal reactor with one exception. It was basically the worst design imaginable in terms of proliferation and produced ready to use U-233 which is actually worse than plutonium in this respect. There are ways to work around this aspect which hopefully have been fleshed out. When I was a kid thorium reserves were thought to be good for tens of thousands of years.

    We don't have to imagine a nuclear Fauci, his name was Oppenheimer. The main difference is that Oppenheimer was apparently a highly competent physicist, while I think Fauci is just the world's most dangerous bureaucrat. Both seem to be psychopaths.

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    I am currently working with a Thorium supplier. We estimate taht there is enough Thorium above ground to supply world electrical demand for 300 years at present levels and thousands of years with new mining. India has a disproportionate share and has been planning to shift to Thorium since the 1960s according to their current design specialists. (This may be just an excuse for their accumulation of plutonium). India is building a reactor. China is following. There are reactor proposals in Europe and Canada (UK firm moved in pursuit of a less regulated environment). A Danish firm has put forward a design for the UK to approve for the SMR programme.

    Molten salt is preferred as a coolant.

    Of course the big market may not be electrical generation but red hydrogen for transport. Japan has developed a Sulphur Iodine process, just add water, heat and catalysts, to produce hydrogen. Nukes can provide the heat.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Philip Owen

    Red hydrogen, what about red mercury????

    PS: What is red hydrogen?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

  1066. @Philip Owen
    @QCIC

    I am currently working with a Thorium supplier. We estimate taht there is enough Thorium above ground to supply world electrical demand for 300 years at present levels and thousands of years with new mining. India has a disproportionate share and has been planning to shift to Thorium since the 1960s according to their current design specialists. (This may be just an excuse for their accumulation of plutonium). India is building a reactor. China is following. There are reactor proposals in Europe and Canada (UK firm moved in pursuit of a less regulated environment). A Danish firm has put forward a design for the UK to approve for the SMR programme.

    Molten salt is preferred as a coolant.

    Of course the big market may not be electrical generation but red hydrogen for transport. Japan has developed a Sulphur Iodine process, just add water, heat and catalysts, to produce hydrogen. Nukes can provide the heat.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Red hydrogen, what about red mercury????

    PS: What is red hydrogen?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    @QCIC

    Red hydrogen is made with the Sulphur-Iodine process and heat, nuclear to be economical and to reach a suitable temperature. The Japanese expect this to be the winning process (and indeed H2 to beat EV).

    Replies: @QCIC

  1067. @Gerard1234
    @AP

    Must this sociopathic, autistic, fantasist fuckup with severe problems , who goes around with zero life, whoring and being humiliated (but protected by anonymity) on every pro-Russian website ( not Russian language website, of course) be allowed to continuously comment here and on all the other sites with sockpuppet accounts, getting hemorrhoids all day?

    Misdirection against Beckow:


    You are the one who claimed recently that Russia invaded with only 100,000 soldiers.

    Of course, it’s not surprising, you lie with almost every post.
     
    Anyway - 137000 is the total of every patriot demilitirising and denazifying 404, from about 111-115 BTG's ( in itself a fake assumption from 404). Until the end of 2022 , not even close to 137000 Russian/LDNR soldiers have been in combat against ukronazis you idiot.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2022/08/11/7362749/ - 137000, the statement of the Russian taxpayer Ukrainian Defence Minister Reznikov, appointment by the Russian taxpayer "Ukrainian" President Zelensky.

    As for Russian casualties, a monument in Saratov listed the ones from that city, in early December (before the Bakhmut meatgrinder). Extrapolating for the entire country would indicate low 30ks dead. This did it include the missing so perhaps mid 30s or even around 40k. That was before Soledar,Bakhmut, Vuhlodar, etc. And it wouldn’t include Donbas militia casualties.
     
    Bimbo idiocy

    OTOH 150k as you claim (or even more as some Russian claim) would mean around half a million injured plus killed. Such a huge amount would be noticed. It has not been.

     

    LMAO - a piece of cretinism that makes zero sense in any way. The only thing making ukronazi deathcult still going is the relatively small size of Russian forces in combat, heavily outnumbered - that includes those deployed since the partial mobilisation

    Replies: @Jazman

    Even anti Putin mediazone claim 14.000 death
    https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/11/casualties_eng

  1068. @QCIC
    @Philip Owen

    Red hydrogen, what about red mercury????

    PS: What is red hydrogen?

    Replies: @Philip Owen

    Red hydrogen is made with the Sulphur-Iodine process and heat, nuclear to be economical and to reach a suitable temperature. The Japanese expect this to be the winning process (and indeed H2 to beat EV).

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Philip Owen

    Thanks.

    My impression is the name Red Hydrogen is meant to be a silly delineation from "green" hydrogen made with solar. A marketing ploy to put nuclear power in the green basket.

  1069. @Leaves No Shadow
    What do people think of the zek oligarch stating that Russia has narrowed its horizons to just Donetsk and Luhansk, but will still need at least 2 years for even that?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death, @Philip Owen

    Very likely. Taurida is lost once the Storm Shadows are fitted to Ukrainian planes. I’m with Ben Hodges, it’s undefendable once Ukraine has the bridge in range.

  1070. @Philip Owen
    @QCIC

    Red hydrogen is made with the Sulphur-Iodine process and heat, nuclear to be economical and to reach a suitable temperature. The Japanese expect this to be the winning process (and indeed H2 to beat EV).

    Replies: @QCIC

    Thanks.

    My impression is the name Red Hydrogen is meant to be a silly delineation from “green” hydrogen made with solar. A marketing ploy to put nuclear power in the green basket.

    • Agree: Philip Owen

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