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Here’s a new Open Thread for all of you. To minimize the load, please continue to limit your Tweets or place them under a MORE tag.

Obviously, Seymour Hersh’s account of the Nord Stream pipeline attacks is the big current story:

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

My own article from last year summarizes a great deal of the background information:

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-of-pipelines-and-plagues/

I’d also recommend this RT segment featuring Ray McGovern, former head of the CIA’s Soviet analyst section and also the Morning Presidential Briefer. According to a participants, one of his German contacts allegedly confirmed the details of Hersh’s account:

Video Link

And here’s Glenn Greenwald’s discussion of the story and the reaction of the American MSM:

Video Link

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Open Thread, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. The Winnipeg or NY Jets for the Kiev regime makes as much sense:

    The Kiev regime will need recently resigned Western F15 pilots to effectively fly this plane within a 3 year or more period from the present. It takes 3 and probably more years than that to effectively fly this plane.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mikhail

    That's it takes three and probably more years than that to learn how to effectively fly this plane.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mikhail

    I agree. Give the New York Jets to Kiev.

    There was a thing on Facebook a couple years ago where nobody, not even the people in New York, care about the Jets.

  2. Mr. Unz,

    The new thread is appreciated.
    _____

    Some complain that Skallagrim is too theatrical. So, I offer a more serious review of the Messer.

    PEACE 😇

  3. @Mikhail
    The Winnipeg or NY Jets for the Kiev regime makes as much sense:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO75E139NbY

    The Kiev regime will need recently resigned Western F15 pilots to effectively fly this plane within a 3 year or more period from the present. It takes 3 and probably more years than that to effectively fly this plane.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Emil Nikola Richard

    That’s it takes three and probably more years than that to learn how to effectively fly this plane.

  4. Chronology:

    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    US says Russia lying.

    Germany says Russia financially liable.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 really broken.

    Russia says Germany running out of gas and will freeze.

    Germany says Russia must open Nordstream 1 but won’t use Nordstream 2.

    Russia refuses to open Nordstream 1, but wants to open Nordstream 2.

    Nordstream 1 gets blown up.

    Nordstream 2 still functioning.

    Russia says again, Nordstream 1 broken, so Germany must use Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    Putinists online declare NATO will collapse because US blew up pipeline Russia wanted and not pipeline US wanted because anonymous sources said so.

    Germany and US increase funding for Ukraine, send tanks together, cooperation and continue to refuse opening Nordstream 2.

    [MORE]

    Russia still stuck outside Bakhmut, having mobilised, and using military that online Putinist declared would be in Paris in 2 weeks.

    China continues to accept Russian people subsidised oil in exchange for limiting aid to Ukraine, polite words to Russia, free coffee for Putin and not recognising Crimea as Russian.

    Online Putinist declared total Russian geopolitical victory.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You are a cranky new age nutcase.

    , @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow

    While entertaining, it does not resemble reality. Try this instead:

    The German Greens hate hydrocarbons

    Greens join German Government

    Greens kill NordStream to stop hydrocarbons

    High energy prices kill German economy

    Green party cannot back down

    Germany forced to find expensive substitutes


    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.
     
    Then why are the Germans desperately constructing LNG import terminals? (1)

    PEACE 😇
    __________


    (1) https://www.dw.com/en/germany-scholz-opens-countrys-first-lng-terminal/a-64134715

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

     

    NS2 can only be functional at half the capacity after the attack (which with it illegally prevented from launching by Pindostan German courts would have needed several months for required pressure to be able to do that), which, in a sane world , would have stopped you from writing this garbage at source.
    I see that American BS and "fake it till you make it" doctrine is like a religion

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

     

    For the last time you cretin - Germany doesn't laugh and has "prepared" for months by:

    1.Using much less gas ( about 1/8th)
    2.Repeat...Consuming much less gas
    3.Buying Russian LNG throughout the SMO. Russian LNG exports to Europe are about 25% of America's to Europe. Expect American and Russian LNG exports to increase even more to EU - but note for obese American retards that their LNG could never come close to replacing Russian pipeline gas
    4.Germany still buying Russian pipeline gas for most of 2022.
    5. It was always about AFTER winter of 2022/23

    Europe has basically had to waste 700 billion to 1 trillion USD in government bailouts to energy companies and subsidies to the public to pay for the high energy prices . Thats not practical money that defeats Russia - like by switching to different gas sources at premium price or building replacement infrastructure for different energy like NPP...Thats completely evaporated money . EU + Britain GDP is about 19-20 billion USD , so that is 3.5-5% of EU GDP eradicated in practical terms.. More importantly that is a much , much bigger percentage of government spending on schools, hospitals, social programs etc that are now thrown in a ditch. The EU-UK lemming populations should be rioting at this disgrace - but coronavirus seems to have given them the same practical effects as a lobotomy


    All because of trying to keep the parasitic 404 as a gas transit country - i.e have Russia fund the military of this freakshow . These "bailout" packages are over 2-3 years, Ukraine transit money was about 2 billion per year. So basically the "geniuses" or should that be cruel satanists of NATO have sacrificed maybe $1 trillion or 700 billion.......to force 1 country to pay another (fake) country $6 billion.......an amount NATO has since more than paid over to 404 anyway. You could not make up this freakshow!
     

    Replies: @Greasy William

  5. It’s funny, I just last week made a comment to Yahya on the other open thread that the source of all human conflict and unhappiness is the feeling that we are somehow existentially incomplete and inadequate – an idea that I had had before, but had just been suggested to me by comments on that thread in a new and forceful way – and today I pick up – somewhat randomly – a book by Rambachan on the Vedanta of Sankara in which this idea is laid out in the most remarkably lucid and forceful form, as the basis of Vedanta.

    And yet there are people who say that there is no great spirit that guides our lives and all is chance 🙂

    …for Advaita, suffering is present in the insistent sense of self-lack, self-insufficiency, and incompleteness. It is experienced as a fundamental sense of insecurity of self. The desire to overcome this uncomfortable sense of uncertainty about the value of oneself is often the propelling drive behind the insatiable acquisition of wealth, power, and fame. Such pursuits become, too often, futile efforts to add value to oneself.

    Rambachan has a wonderful quote on the religious quest, taken, I think, from Hindu tradition – to gain the already gained, to accomplish the already accomplished 🙂

    (the idea being, that ignorance of our true nature causes our sense that we are incomplete. In reality, we are Brahman, and must only wake up to that fact, not add anything to ourselves)

    In various forms I’ve encountered this before – in the Diamond Sutra, the Buddha says that one does not gain a single thing from enlightenment, and in the Zen tradition, Huang Po says it is like searching for a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead.

    In the wonderful Gnostic Hymn of the Pearl, which had a significant influence on Christianity and was a prevalent spiritual sensibility throughout the late ancient world (Gnosticism, that is), the same idea is given eloquent voice – that we are forgetful of our true natures, and that is the source of our suffering (the Gnostics, of course, added the element that there are sinister spiritual forces keeping us in bondage, which Paul took over into Christianity).

    But it’s nice to see once again this ancient truth – which may be the most important possession of humanity – once again expressed. It had somewhat faded from view in my own life, and yet it is really the summit of spirituality, and the cure for modernity. It’s something that should never be forgotten.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    There was a time when I was deep into this Eastern Wisdom too. But then I realized, if it is so simple -


    a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead
     
    - why it is so hard...? Can truth have only accidental realizations in this world, through the enlightened? Why should actually the way to the truth be so hard and for the chosen - shouldn't truth be shining like the Sun upon everyone?
    There must be a catch here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Anon 2

  6. @Leaves No Shadow
    Chronology:

    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    US says Russia lying.

    Germany says Russia financially liable.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 really broken.

    Russia says Germany running out of gas and will freeze.

    Germany says Russia must open Nordstream 1 but won't use Nordstream 2.

    Russia refuses to open Nordstream 1, but wants to open Nordstream 2.

    Nordstream 1 gets blown up.

    Nordstream 2 still functioning.

    Russia says again, Nordstream 1 broken, so Germany must use Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    Putinists online declare NATO will collapse because US blew up pipeline Russia wanted and not pipeline US wanted because anonymous sources said so.

    Germany and US increase funding for Ukraine, send tanks together, cooperation and continue to refuse opening Nordstream 2.

    Russia still stuck outside Bakhmut, having mobilised, and using military that online Putinist declared would be in Paris in 2 weeks.

    China continues to accept Russian people subsidised oil in exchange for limiting aid to Ukraine, polite words to Russia, free coffee for Putin and not recognising Crimea as Russian.

    Online Putinist declared total Russian geopolitical victory.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @Gerard1234

    You are a cranky new age nutcase.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  7. @Leaves No Shadow
    Chronology:

    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    US says Russia lying.

    Germany says Russia financially liable.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 really broken.

    Russia says Germany running out of gas and will freeze.

    Germany says Russia must open Nordstream 1 but won't use Nordstream 2.

    Russia refuses to open Nordstream 1, but wants to open Nordstream 2.

    Nordstream 1 gets blown up.

    Nordstream 2 still functioning.

    Russia says again, Nordstream 1 broken, so Germany must use Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    Putinists online declare NATO will collapse because US blew up pipeline Russia wanted and not pipeline US wanted because anonymous sources said so.

    Germany and US increase funding for Ukraine, send tanks together, cooperation and continue to refuse opening Nordstream 2.

    Russia still stuck outside Bakhmut, having mobilised, and using military that online Putinist declared would be in Paris in 2 weeks.

    China continues to accept Russian people subsidised oil in exchange for limiting aid to Ukraine, polite words to Russia, free coffee for Putin and not recognising Crimea as Russian.

    Online Putinist declared total Russian geopolitical victory.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @Gerard1234

    While entertaining, it does not resemble reality. Try this instead:

    The German Greens hate hydrocarbons

    Greens join German Government

    Greens kill NordStream to stop hydrocarbons

    High energy prices kill German economy

    Green party cannot back down

    Germany forced to find expensive substitutes

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    Then why are the Germans desperately constructing LNG import terminals? (1)

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.dw.com/en/germany-scholz-opens-countrys-first-lng-terminal/a-64134715

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @A123

    Here is VVP stating that Europe must open Nordstream 2 and that he'll never deliver by Nordstream 1, literally just before someone blows up Nordstream 1 and not Nordstream 2, thereby fulfilling exactly what VVP wanted, and no one else wanted, except that German gas reserves were sufficient, which he could not have known, but the Americans and Germans playing him did.

    https://youtu.be/gwr52HNIYks

    It is like with Leopard 2s. Their delivery was arranged long before the kabuki over whether they would be or not concluded. Unsurprisingly, given that they share all of the same values, the German and American elites are thick as thieves and play people who buy into this "American occupation of Europe" fantasy like a fiddle.

  8. The Greenwald video is a particularly good example of explaining the way “of the way” that Victoria Nuland is the President of Ukraine no matter who the Americans vote for and no matter who the Ukies vote for.

    The lull in the fighting, between Donbass separatists and the Kiev government in Ukriane, coincided by Cohenicidence with her removal from power during Trump’s presidency. Between 2017 and 2021 the fighting more or less stopped.

    Will anyone rid the region of this troublesome woman? Trump did.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Wokechoke


    Will anyone rid the region of this troublesome woman [Victoria Nuland]? Trump did.
     
    Samantha Power is also back. (1)

    Within the statements reported from his 2022 victory speech, Prime Minister Orban warned citizens of the NATO and western allied countries about the manipulation of Ukraine and how he views the Zelenskyy regime: […] “while speaking to supporters on Sunday, Orban singled out Zelenskyy as part of the “overwhelming force” that he said his party had struggled against in the election — “the left at home, the international left, the Brussels bureaucrats, the Soros empire with all its money, the international mainstream media, and in the end, even the Ukrainian president.”

    This put Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in the crosshairs of the western alliance, specifically the EU and U.S. bureaucrats who use their power, position and intelligence apparatus to manipulate foreign nations. A year later and now we see USAID Administrator Samantha Power in Hungary openly discussing her seeding of the NGO’s and political activist systems in order to generate yet another color revolution.

    https://rumble.com/embed/v26o6gs/

     

    Trump 2024 will get rid of her too.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/12/heads-up-state-dept-operative-and-usaid-administrator-samantha-power-is-in-hungary-seeding-another-color-revolution-deep-state-ukraine-2-0/

    Replies: @QCIC

  9. @Wokechoke
    The Greenwald video is a particularly good example of explaining the way "of the way" that Victoria Nuland is the President of Ukraine no matter who the Americans vote for and no matter who the Ukies vote for.

    The lull in the fighting, between Donbass separatists and the Kiev government in Ukriane, coincided by Cohenicidence with her removal from power during Trump's presidency. Between 2017 and 2021 the fighting more or less stopped.


    Will anyone rid the region of this troublesome woman? Trump did.

    Replies: @A123

    Will anyone rid the region of this troublesome woman [Victoria Nuland]? Trump did.

    Samantha Power is also back. (1)

    Within the statements reported from his 2022 victory speech, Prime Minister Orban warned citizens of the NATO and western allied countries about the manipulation of Ukraine and how he views the Zelenskyy regime: […] “while speaking to supporters on Sunday, Orban singled out Zelenskyy as part of the “overwhelming force” that he said his party had struggled against in the election — “the left at home, the international left, the Brussels bureaucrats, the Soros empire with all its money, the international mainstream media, and in the end, even the Ukrainian president.”

    This put Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in the crosshairs of the western alliance, specifically the EU and U.S. bureaucrats who use their power, position and intelligence apparatus to manipulate foreign nations. A year later and now we see USAID Administrator Samantha Power in Hungary openly discussing her seeding of the NGO’s and political activist systems in order to generate yet another color revolution.



    Video Link

    Trump 2024 will get rid of her too.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/12/heads-up-state-dept-operative-and-usaid-administrator-samantha-power-is-in-hungary-seeding-another-color-revolution-deep-state-ukraine-2-0/

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    That video tells the story. A really creepy person bragging about working to ruin other people's lives.

  10. @Sher Singh
    "Satan tells you to not fuck niggers"
    "We're all one race the human race"

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777363024196796426/1073051757699158026/charismatic_churhc.mp4

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/777361459130138627/1073426401014861876/329214891_911959403264868_1304064747119195603_n.mp4

    Replies: @QCIC

    That’s different.

    The first one.

  11. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    Will anyone rid the region of this troublesome woman [Victoria Nuland]? Trump did.
     
    Samantha Power is also back. (1)

    Within the statements reported from his 2022 victory speech, Prime Minister Orban warned citizens of the NATO and western allied countries about the manipulation of Ukraine and how he views the Zelenskyy regime: […] “while speaking to supporters on Sunday, Orban singled out Zelenskyy as part of the “overwhelming force” that he said his party had struggled against in the election — “the left at home, the international left, the Brussels bureaucrats, the Soros empire with all its money, the international mainstream media, and in the end, even the Ukrainian president.”

    This put Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in the crosshairs of the western alliance, specifically the EU and U.S. bureaucrats who use their power, position and intelligence apparatus to manipulate foreign nations. A year later and now we see USAID Administrator Samantha Power in Hungary openly discussing her seeding of the NGO’s and political activist systems in order to generate yet another color revolution.

    https://rumble.com/embed/v26o6gs/

     

    Trump 2024 will get rid of her too.

    #LetsGoBrandon 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/12/heads-up-state-dept-operative-and-usaid-administrator-samantha-power-is-in-hungary-seeding-another-color-revolution-deep-state-ukraine-2-0/

    Replies: @QCIC

    That video tells the story. A really creepy person bragging about working to ruin other people’s lives.

    • Agree: Mikhail
  12. @Mikhail
    The Winnipeg or NY Jets for the Kiev regime makes as much sense:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO75E139NbY

    The Kiev regime will need recently resigned Western F15 pilots to effectively fly this plane within a 3 year or more period from the present. It takes 3 and probably more years than that to effectively fly this plane.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I agree. Give the New York Jets to Kiev.

    There was a thing on Facebook a couple years ago where nobody, not even the people in New York, care about the Jets.

  13. AP says:

    @ Beckow from previous Open Thread

    Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn’t have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.

    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has. No further shrinking is necessary.

    It would be – based on how the war goes – a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country

    If 2/3 of the refugees outside of Ukraine return to Ukraine, the current territory would have around 30 million people. A stalemate at the current lines (give or take Bakhmut and some other settlements) is the most likely result. Though Ukraine taking back more territory towards the Crimean corridor and rural Luhansk is not unlikely. (I doubt that Ukraine will be able to storm large cities like Donetsk)

    If Ukraine loses more territories in the East such as Zaporizhia city or Kharkiv (unlikely) it will be a few million less than that.

    If Ukraine loses Eastern territories plus Odessa (very unlikely) it will be down to 20 million or so.

    The worst case and extremely unlikely scenario would be Russia taking Kiev and all the pre-1939 Soviet territory. This would leave Ukraine with around 12-15 million people, depending on how many refugees settle there from the other side of the Iron Curtain. This territory would be about 140,000 sq. kilometers in size (the map below, plus Transarpathia with Uzhorod and Bukovyna with Chernivtsi) and would thus be slightly larger than Hungary + Slovakia with a similar population of those two countries combined.

    It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, ‘tourists’ would visit for the bars and security conferences.

    Nonsense. Lviv is a beautiful city that attracts young settlers. And it offers plenty of well paid programming jobs. The city’s population has already increased by 150,000 as a result of this war. Entire companies with their young employees have moved to Lviv from places like Kharkiv. If Kiev were lost, many of the young from that city would move to Free Lviv rather than leave Ukraine entirely, and with peace many would return from where they have been refugees in places like Poland. It would most likely be a million plus city (before the war it had a population of about 750,000).

    It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).

    Eastern Poland (which doesn’t have any large cities like Lviv) has a per capita GRP of around ~$11,000 which is a lot higher than Belarus’s $8,567. Within western Ukraine, rural Volhynia and Zakarpattiya would probably be similar to that, while Galicia (Lviv) would be significantly higher.

    Romania has a per capita GDP that is slightly higher than Russia’s. And that is with its large gypsy population included.

    Bulgaria is a lot richer than Belarus, and that is with its large gypsy population.

    Moldova is a small, isolated country, it is a stupid comparison.

    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine?

    Because if the Russians take Donbas they will try to take more. Russians will try to take what they can until they are stopped. Better to stop them in Donbas than to allow the Russians to turn Dnipro, or Kharkiv, etc. into wastelands.

    Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?

    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers. Median salary for programmer in Lviv was $3,000 per month in 2021:

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/lviv-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,4_IC3537517_KO5,22.htm

    who sells them trinkets

    The largest cable manufacturers for German cars is in Lviv oblast. Those are not “trinkets.”

    Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That’s what they want

    That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.

    But NATRO was and will be a remote possibility. Though the possibility has increased since the Russian invasion.

    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years

    Which one of those countries that NATO attacked has nuclear weapons?

    NATO has kept Russia out of countries, though.

    (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe).

    1,2000-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estmates.

    A small fraction of the amount of civilians killed by Russia in Chechnya or Ukraine. Places that didn’t have NATO protection.

    If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.

    Repeating a lie doesn’t make it true. There is no war over Finland joining NATO. Finland hasn’t joined NATO yet, so there is no NATO protective shield. And Finland is much closer to getting in than Ukraine ever was. Yet Russia isn’t moving against Finland. So clearly the problem is not a nation close to Russia joining NATO.

    The problem is Ukraine leaving the Russian World forever. Ukraine is strategically important for Moscow, if Moscow wants to be some sort of Great Power. The Russian Empire and the USSR both included Ukraine.

    As our former host correctly summarized, between EU integration and de-Russification policies, Ukraine was leaving Russia behind and cutting itself off completely, becoming as foreign to Russia as Poland, and this was the last chance for Russia to take it back, or to at least salvage as much of it as possible. They hoped to get it all (at least outside Galicia and Volhynia), but will settle for as much as they can.

    Regarding your denials: ‘but they postponed it year after year!” – are you really that stupid? That’s how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances.

    The fact that they never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.

    BTW, you ignored my statement about NATO as a rule not accepting any country than has ongoing territorial disputes. Russian lackeys like you were bragging how, by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia made NATO entrance for Ukraine impossible. It was a brilliant move by Putin.

    But now you claim that Ukraine was going to enter NATO anyways, and had to be stopped.

    Were Russian lackeys like you lying then, or lying now?

    Or were you too stupid to keep track?

    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato.

    It still does, that hasn’t changed. It says that EU and NATO are strategic objectives. Crimea and Donbas are also part of Ukraine according to the Constitution.

    And NATO still declares that Ukraine will join NATO. So these things haven’t changed since Russia’s invasion.

    What has changed, is that Ukraine’s military has integrated far more with NATO’s military, and had proven itself as a battle-tested worthy potential member of NATO. So, as I wrote, odds of NATO membership have impr0ved as a result of this war, from 5% to 25%.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @AP


    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.
     
    The pro Russian blogger "Slavland Chronicles" says that none of the young men in the families of his Ukrainian relatives have been called up nor do they have any fear of being called up. The press ganging videos that we see on Twitter are likely responses to crisis situations that pop up at various places on the first line of defense. Ukraine has been using cannon fodder to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.

    I'm not interested in which side is right, I'm interested in which side is winning. And Ukraine is clearly winning if you look at the conflict from a bird's eye view and ignore all the minutia that people online sperg about.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW

    , @Beckow
    @AP


    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.
     
    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it. Just remember, attempting a genocide of an ethnic group is a crime and trying it against a larger, stronger group usually doesn't work. The enthusiasts will face consequences.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers....
     
    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k "IT workers" in the Lviv region, around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages. It has some research, but the overall impact on the Ukrainian economy is very marginal, 2-3%, a lot less than in other EE countries. $3k, are you kidding? that's what a good barista makes.

    That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.
     
    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that. You live in a lala-land of your retarded slogans.

    1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.
     
    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria...all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you? How can you simply gloss over it? That shows dishonesty and hypocrisy so deep that none of your statements mean much.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that - a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes. That's why being right on the border in close proximity and having the Russia-hating Ukies ready was so important. At a minimum it would keep Russia powerless. You want that, so you, but naturally Russia doesn't want it.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine. You make no sense when you try to compare Finland (or Estonia) to Ukraine. Think before you write nonsense.


    Nato never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.
     
    The 'not meaningful' and 'empty' was not the way it was presented - that is your desperate spin. It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity - if you don't get that you are too naive. At least argue reality and not silly evasive narratives. If you think that 'territorial conflict' would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else. What matters is the intent, not how exactly Nato would do it. People who deny it are not serious or idiots.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine unless Kiev wins the war in a big way. Nato will feed the conflict, but probably not join in. After Ukies are bled and surrender large parts of their country, Nato will pontificate but stay out. Russia with the war changed the strategic balance.

    Replies: @AP

  14. @A123
    @Leaves No Shadow

    While entertaining, it does not resemble reality. Try this instead:

    The German Greens hate hydrocarbons

    Greens join German Government

    Greens kill NordStream to stop hydrocarbons

    High energy prices kill German economy

    Green party cannot back down

    Germany forced to find expensive substitutes


    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.
     
    Then why are the Germans desperately constructing LNG import terminals? (1)

    PEACE 😇
    __________


    (1) https://www.dw.com/en/germany-scholz-opens-countrys-first-lng-terminal/a-64134715

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Here is VVP stating that Europe must open Nordstream 2 and that he’ll never deliver by Nordstream 1, literally just before someone blows up Nordstream 1 and not Nordstream 2, thereby fulfilling exactly what VVP wanted, and no one else wanted, except that German gas reserves were sufficient, which he could not have known, but the Americans and Germans playing him did.

    It is like with Leopard 2s. Their delivery was arranged long before the kabuki over whether they would be or not concluded. Unsurprisingly, given that they share all of the same values, the German and American elites are thick as thieves and play people who buy into this “American occupation of Europe” fantasy like a fiddle.

  15. AK is wrong about aliens. If anything, NPR, rap, jazz, and autotune Madonna will keep them away – radio aposematism.

    Maybe, you can shoot some rock at the Earth at half the speed of light. But, maybe, the Earth is just a robotic deer, and the game warden will nab you, and then subject you to a million years of listening to Cardi B’s worst song on a loop.

  16. This is funny:

    [MORE]

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I don't find it funny because I don't have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Instead, it is just nonsense. There are no lack of beautiful people on American television. Instead,there is a lack of truly ugly people. Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking! Even though British people are the best looking people in the world, of course.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Barbarossa

  17. @songbird
    This is funny:
    https://twitter.com/WorldWarWang/status/1625165049848541184?s=20&t=sLKKFn3AKc1deDwIzfYW-g

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I don’t find it funny because I don’t have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Instead, it is just nonsense. There are no lack of beautiful people on American television. Instead,there is a lack of truly ugly people. Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking! Even though British people are the best looking people in the world, of course.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I don’t find it funny because I don’t have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.
     
    Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern (a fact surely known by Anglin), but that is besides the point. She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.

    Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking!
     
    Are you talking about the show made in 1995? (haven't seen it) Maddow wasn't even on TV, until 2005, and then not as the lead.

    The beauty standards of the Anglophone media (and some others) have degenerated substantially, since 1995.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Agree. And it's a net loss for China to have Western men of Anglin's profile to boost for it.

    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn't at all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxdJHYIjvEE

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    , @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird, @Leaves No Shadow, @QCIC

  18. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    It's funny, I just last week made a comment to Yahya on the other open thread that the source of all human conflict and unhappiness is the feeling that we are somehow existentially incomplete and inadequate - an idea that I had had before, but had just been suggested to me by comments on that thread in a new and forceful way - and today I pick up - somewhat randomly - a book by Rambachan on the Vedanta of Sankara in which this idea is laid out in the most remarkably lucid and forceful form, as the basis of Vedanta.

    And yet there are people who say that there is no great spirit that guides our lives and all is chance :)

    ...for Advaita, suffering is present in the insistent sense of self-lack, self-insufficiency, and incompleteness. It is experienced as a fundamental sense of insecurity of self. The desire to overcome this uncomfortable sense of uncertainty about the value of oneself is often the propelling drive behind the insatiable acquisition of wealth, power, and fame. Such pursuits become, too often, futile efforts to add value to oneself.
     
    Rambachan has a wonderful quote on the religious quest, taken, I think, from Hindu tradition - to gain the already gained, to accomplish the already accomplished :)

    (the idea being, that ignorance of our true nature causes our sense that we are incomplete. In reality, we are Brahman, and must only wake up to that fact, not add anything to ourselves)

    In various forms I've encountered this before - in the Diamond Sutra, the Buddha says that one does not gain a single thing from enlightenment, and in the Zen tradition, Huang Po says it is like searching for a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead.

    In the wonderful Gnostic Hymn of the Pearl, which had a significant influence on Christianity and was a prevalent spiritual sensibility throughout the late ancient world (Gnosticism, that is), the same idea is given eloquent voice - that we are forgetful of our true natures, and that is the source of our suffering (the Gnostics, of course, added the element that there are sinister spiritual forces keeping us in bondage, which Paul took over into Christianity).

    But it's nice to see once again this ancient truth - which may be the most important possession of humanity - once again expressed. It had somewhat faded from view in my own life, and yet it is really the summit of spirituality, and the cure for modernity. It's something that should never be forgotten.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    There was a time when I was deep into this Eastern Wisdom too. But then I realized, if it is so simple –

    a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead

    – why it is so hard…? Can truth have only accidental realizations in this world, through the enlightened? Why should actually the way to the truth be so hard and for the chosen – shouldn’t truth be shining like the Sun upon everyone?
    There must be a catch here.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If someone told you that you will realize Truth immediately but would cease to exist, would you accept that?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I don't have an answer for that. Various traditions offer different answers - in Christianity, it's a result of the Fall. In Hinduism, it's the Kali Yuga - things inevitably decay before they are renewed. In Gnosticism and early Christianity, it's dark spiritual powers on high - the Archons of this world, powers and principalities, that keep us in bondage. Another answer is that each soul has particular lessons to learn. I think they all, symbolically, get at the truth.

    On the other hand, these truths are so universally attested to in all four corners of the earth in all the great traditions that Truth is in a sense "easy" and universal.

    At any moment, at any time, anyone can change their life and access these truths. It's open to anyone, always. Of course, you must change your life and behavior to really be able to see certain things, and the world does indeed seem to be organized to stop you from living the correct way and from accessing these truths - there does seem to be some malign force opposing you (this Gnostic sense is probably behind all the silly conspiracy theories that are flourishing - the feeling is quite justified, although the theories are ridiculous).

    But these questions aren't really relevant to you losing or maintaining an interest in Eastern (it's Western, too) wisdom, APP - the fact is, these truths must be tried, you have to live according to them. If they don't utterly transform your life, then they simply aren't true :) That's all there is to it.

    The promise is quite simple - it's not some reward in the afterlife, but bliss (ananda) here and now, as a result of living by these truths, it's the peace that passeth understanding, now.

    The fruits of the Spirit, after all, are - " ..
    love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control".

    The promise is for now - it's quite pragmatic. If it doesn't bring joy, then they are lies. If correct practice still doesn't let you "see", then they aren't true.

    But - this requires a kind of "faith", as all adventures do. Not blind faith, but the faith to experiment. There is an old Hindu anecdote about a blind man undergoing an operation to restore his vision - the doctor tells him it's a success and if he opens his eyes he will see. But he doesn't believe them and refuses to open his eyes :) Without faith, you can't discover the truth of anything.

    As for the rest of mankind, eventually, all come to truth - that we are all immediately there isn't so significant.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Anon 2
    @Another Polish Perspective

    It isn’t as hard as many people think. I recommend “A Course in Miracles” (1976)
    and its sequel “A Course of Love” (2001). They basically say that we are gods and
    goddesses in training. We live in a slow universe for our own protection.
    We do create our own reality but very slowly. If our wishes became manifest
    faster, we’d destroy ourselves due to all the negativity present in our conscious
    and unconscious minds. So first we need to purify ourselves. Once you purify
    yourself, you’ll be amazed how quickly your wishes become manifested.
    It’s an empirically observable fact.

    Fortunately, Poland and Czechia are Late Mature- Early Old Soul countries,
    meaning that they’ve become very purified already. Hence the “Holy Poland”
    meme. Poland has one of the lowest levels of social dysfunction in the
    world, e.g., extremely low levels of murder, rape, and abortion.
    Unfortunately, the United States is a Late Young Soul country and Western
    Europe is Early Mature Soul level, so both are fairly primitive compared
    to Poland or Czechia. There are much more sophisticated models of
    the Evolution of Consciousness in existence, e.g., by Ken Wilber, America’s
    most translated philosopher, or by Michael Washburn whose approach
    employs the tools of Analytic Psychology. However, the Infant-Baby-Young-
    Mature-Old Soul level sequence is the easiest to present in a blog like this
    one. The Michael teachings are a good reference. I presented a very detailed
    version of this model on this blog 3-4 years ago.

    If you’re interested in psychedelics, then I recommend the writings of
    Thaddeus Golas, evolutionary thinker famous for his mega bestseller
    “The Lazy Man’s Guide to Enlightenment.” Golas was in fact a Polish-
    American thinker, with a degree from Columbia University. He witnessed
    it all, Greenwich Village in the 1950s and San Francisco in the 1960s-‘70s.
    A fascinating man. The U.S. is very uncomfortable for the Polish - we tend
    to be Late Mature-Early Old souls whereas Americans, being Young Souls,
    genuflect before the Unholy Trinity of Wealth, Power, and Fame. As a result
    we have very little in common.

  19. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    There was a time when I was deep into this Eastern Wisdom too. But then I realized, if it is so simple -


    a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead
     
    - why it is so hard...? Can truth have only accidental realizations in this world, through the enlightened? Why should actually the way to the truth be so hard and for the chosen - shouldn't truth be shining like the Sun upon everyone?
    There must be a catch here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Anon 2

    If someone told you that you will realize Truth immediately but would cease to exist, would you accept that?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Charles Manson wrote a song about that. It was a big hit with the Brian Wilson Neil Young party set.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    The choice of Pointless Existence Without Meaningful Truth versus
    Pointless Truth Without Meaningful Existence is a false one.

  20. To Coconuts and S, about the topic discussed by Charles Maurras in the excerpt posted by Coconuts.

    I was going to write a lenghty and unhinged rant, same as usual, and then I learned that someone (Rolo Slavskyi) has published some Shafarevich’s translation on Unz Review.

    https://www.unz.com/article/postscript-to-the-three-thousand-year-old-enigma/

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    • Thanks: Coconuts
    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thanks for the two intriguing articles. They both make many good points and are a very good description of the present situation.

    Any Euro people wishing to survive will have a lot of rebuilding to do, and probably be starting off small in size and number.

    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    There is an interesting quote in the above post:


    He conceptualized society as a living organism, or rather, that one’s ethnic group is an extension of oneself. His reasoning is simple: a tribe helps protect the individual. A tribe and then a society grows around an individual like a protective hide grows around a boar. Better yet, individuals can be compared to the cells in a body. Castes or types of individuals are organs in this metaphor.
     
    About the views of Lev Gumilev.

    It reminded me a bit of Maurras' idea of human societies as something like organisms:


    Societies are certainly not exactly the same as large animals and individuals are not simply subordinate component cells of them. But equally, they are not an example of the 'pooling' or 'sharing' of self-interest and of the choices of individuals that, in law, are known as associations.

    Societies are not voluntary associations, they are natural aggregates.

    They are not chosen or elected by their members. We choose neither our blood nor our country, nor our language, nor our traditions. The society we are born into is imposed on us. The need for human society is part of our nature.
     

    I think Aristotle might have been the first to set out an organic view of human societies?

    Maurras thought the problems with hidden ethnic oligarchies could be solved by the establishment of a decentralised, corporatist monarchy, because the king would have enough independent power to control them, and the familial, organic structure of political society would make their existence and activities more obvious. He was writing pre-globalisation though, in the early 20th century.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  21. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    There was a time when I was deep into this Eastern Wisdom too. But then I realized, if it is so simple -


    a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead
     
    - why it is so hard...? Can truth have only accidental realizations in this world, through the enlightened? Why should actually the way to the truth be so hard and for the chosen - shouldn't truth be shining like the Sun upon everyone?
    There must be a catch here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Anon 2

    I don’t have an answer for that. Various traditions offer different answers – in Christianity, it’s a result of the Fall. In Hinduism, it’s the Kali Yuga – things inevitably decay before they are renewed. In Gnosticism and early Christianity, it’s dark spiritual powers on high – the Archons of this world, powers and principalities, that keep us in bondage. Another answer is that each soul has particular lessons to learn. I think they all, symbolically, get at the truth.

    On the other hand, these truths are so universally attested to in all four corners of the earth in all the great traditions that Truth is in a sense “easy” and universal.

    At any moment, at any time, anyone can change their life and access these truths. It’s open to anyone, always. Of course, you must change your life and behavior to really be able to see certain things, and the world does indeed seem to be organized to stop you from living the correct way and from accessing these truths – there does seem to be some malign force opposing you (this Gnostic sense is probably behind all the silly conspiracy theories that are flourishing – the feeling is quite justified, although the theories are ridiculous).

    But these questions aren’t really relevant to you losing or maintaining an interest in Eastern (it’s Western, too) wisdom, APP – the fact is, these truths must be tried, you have to live according to them. If they don’t utterly transform your life, then they simply aren’t true 🙂 That’s all there is to it.

    The promise is quite simple – it’s not some reward in the afterlife, but bliss (ananda) here and now, as a result of living by these truths, it’s the peace that passeth understanding, now.

    The fruits of the Spirit, after all, are – ” ..
    love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control”.

    The promise is for now – it’s quite pragmatic. If it doesn’t bring joy, then they are lies. If correct practice still doesn’t let you “see”, then they aren’t true.

    But – this requires a kind of “faith”, as all adventures do. Not blind faith, but the faith to experiment. There is an old Hindu anecdote about a blind man undergoing an operation to restore his vision – the doctor tells him it’s a success and if he opens his eyes he will see. But he doesn’t believe them and refuses to open his eyes 🙂 Without faith, you can’t discover the truth of anything.

    As for the rest of mankind, eventually, all come to truth – that we are all immediately there isn’t so significant.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    A perceptive person will realise that Archons et co. are perhaps more powerful than all the sparks of Light around them - Archons move and enslave the sparks of Light, not vice versa.

    Student of Wisdom will soon thus realize that in all these theories the matters of evil are much more convoluted than the Matters of Good, so perhaps focusing more on the former is the right choice if our final goal is the Truth which perhaps makes us aware that neither Good is so good as we wished, nor the Evil so evil as we were told, and yet the opposition does exist.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  22. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I don't find it funny because I don't have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Instead, it is just nonsense. There are no lack of beautiful people on American television. Instead,there is a lack of truly ugly people. Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking! Even though British people are the best looking people in the world, of course.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Barbarossa

    I don’t find it funny because I don’t have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern (a fact surely known by Anglin), but that is besides the point. She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.

    Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking!

    Are you talking about the show made in 1995? (haven’t seen it) Maddow wasn’t even on TV, until 2005, and then not as the lead.

    The beauty standards of the Anglophone media (and some others) have degenerated substantially, since 1995.

    • Troll: Yahya
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.
     
    She has chosen to grow into that. She was the apple of her parents' eyes when she was attending Castro Valley High School. The probability is high (~.95) she has hated all men starting with daddy for a very long time. This has nothing to do with Freud. Freud can tell you close to zilch about modern California.

    (She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her. She is an industrial level of un-likable.)

    Replies: @songbird

  23. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If someone told you that you will realize Truth immediately but would cease to exist, would you accept that?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Another Polish Perspective

    Charles Manson wrote a song about that. It was a big hit with the Brian Wilson Neil Young party set.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Charlie Manson is one talented individual.

    I liked his take on Boyd Rice and Michael Moynihan:

    https://youtu.be/XaSnkjqeY-U

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  24. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    I don’t find it funny because I don’t have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.
     
    Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern (a fact surely known by Anglin), but that is besides the point. She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.

    Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking!
     
    Are you talking about the show made in 1995? (haven't seen it) Maddow wasn't even on TV, until 2005, and then not as the lead.

    The beauty standards of the Anglophone media (and some others) have degenerated substantially, since 1995.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.

    She has chosen to grow into that. She was the apple of her parents’ eyes when she was attending Castro Valley High School. The probability is high (~.95) she has hated all men starting with daddy for a very long time. This has nothing to do with Freud. Freud can tell you close to zilch about modern California.

    (She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her. She is an industrial level of un-likable.)

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her.
     
    If The Picture of Dorian Gray had one message, it was that Oscar Wilde did not like women.

    But I get tired of this feminist rhetoric that masculine men hate women. They don't, and normal women don't like soyjacks.

    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

  25. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    She is an ugly lesbo, and that is the main thing.
     
    She has chosen to grow into that. She was the apple of her parents' eyes when she was attending Castro Valley High School. The probability is high (~.95) she has hated all men starting with daddy for a very long time. This has nothing to do with Freud. Freud can tell you close to zilch about modern California.

    (She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her. She is an industrial level of un-likable.)

    Replies: @songbird

    She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her.

    If The Picture of Dorian Gray had one message, it was that Oscar Wilde did not like women.

    But I get tired of this feminist rhetoric that masculine men hate women. They don’t, and normal women don’t like soyjacks.

    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Yahya
    @songbird


    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

     

    Maddow isn't even 1/8th Middle Eastern; you twit.

    ScarJo looks Germanic/Nordic.

    Jennifer Connelly looks Black Irish or Italian.

    Would pass as Middle Eastern if a few facial features were tweaked though.

    Wouldn't mind accepting her to the fold. She was born in Cairo after all.

    Is also beautiful and intelligent.

    You can keep the other two.


    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture,
     
    I don't recall commenting on that. Though I'm open to being wrong. You are welcome to provide a link to my comment.

    Blacks do have a culture; both in Africa and America. The former is primitive and the latter depraved; but they are distinct cultures nonetheless. You are conflating "bad" with "nothing".


    but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that.

     

    There are pockets of creditable high-culture in Europe. Most of it is indeed "coasting" on previous accomplishments; but that is both a sin and a virtue. It can be good to preserve the achievements of one's ancestors; whether in literature, music, film, art or architecture. I don't see the issue with performing Bach or Mozart in a French cathedral every weekend. Many non-European peoples also tend to replay the same music from their golden ages. The Ancient Egyptians maintained the same aesthetic for thousands of years. On the other hand, innovation and creativity are also worthy endeavors. Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing. Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans; likewise Alexandria was for a millennia the most culturally productive city in the Western world. The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    I don't think anyone has a finger on the causes of Western cultural decline. Some posit a general downward trend starting in WW1; though I view the timeline as variable depending on cultural activity. Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century. James Huneker in Old Fogy contended that "no great music [has been] made since the death of Beethoven". That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    @Latw


    Irish German maybe?
     
    Anglin doesn't need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Apparently Irish-Americans now think themselves Aryan ubermenschen.

    The deracination must've gotten to some of them. Very sad really.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Coconuts

  26. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I don't have an answer for that. Various traditions offer different answers - in Christianity, it's a result of the Fall. In Hinduism, it's the Kali Yuga - things inevitably decay before they are renewed. In Gnosticism and early Christianity, it's dark spiritual powers on high - the Archons of this world, powers and principalities, that keep us in bondage. Another answer is that each soul has particular lessons to learn. I think they all, symbolically, get at the truth.

    On the other hand, these truths are so universally attested to in all four corners of the earth in all the great traditions that Truth is in a sense "easy" and universal.

    At any moment, at any time, anyone can change their life and access these truths. It's open to anyone, always. Of course, you must change your life and behavior to really be able to see certain things, and the world does indeed seem to be organized to stop you from living the correct way and from accessing these truths - there does seem to be some malign force opposing you (this Gnostic sense is probably behind all the silly conspiracy theories that are flourishing - the feeling is quite justified, although the theories are ridiculous).

    But these questions aren't really relevant to you losing or maintaining an interest in Eastern (it's Western, too) wisdom, APP - the fact is, these truths must be tried, you have to live according to them. If they don't utterly transform your life, then they simply aren't true :) That's all there is to it.

    The promise is quite simple - it's not some reward in the afterlife, but bliss (ananda) here and now, as a result of living by these truths, it's the peace that passeth understanding, now.

    The fruits of the Spirit, after all, are - " ..
    love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control".

    The promise is for now - it's quite pragmatic. If it doesn't bring joy, then they are lies. If correct practice still doesn't let you "see", then they aren't true.

    But - this requires a kind of "faith", as all adventures do. Not blind faith, but the faith to experiment. There is an old Hindu anecdote about a blind man undergoing an operation to restore his vision - the doctor tells him it's a success and if he opens his eyes he will see. But he doesn't believe them and refuses to open his eyes :) Without faith, you can't discover the truth of anything.

    As for the rest of mankind, eventually, all come to truth - that we are all immediately there isn't so significant.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    A perceptive person will realise that Archons et co. are perhaps more powerful than all the sparks of Light around them – Archons move and enslave the sparks of Light, not vice versa.

    Student of Wisdom will soon thus realize that in all these theories the matters of evil are much more convoluted than the Matters of Good, so perhaps focusing more on the former is the right choice if our final goal is the Truth which perhaps makes us aware that neither Good is so good as we wished, nor the Evil so evil as we were told, and yet the opposition does exist.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective

    1. There's no such thing as "archons".

    2. Theories of evil are necessarily more convoluted because it is illusory.

    Otoh, I don't think it is unhealthy that you treat these things as real. The descriptive word "illusion" does not mean the descripted phenomenon lacks power, or even personality. Just that it only exists as something partial.

    3. Light is there shining brightly, but humans turn away and cower, for fear of what it might reveal about themselves. And this is why they find truth so difficult, even maddening. Introduce bits of it too big for them to them, and watch them go insane.

    4. When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I'm a non-dualist, so I don't believe in two independent opposing principles. Literally everything is a form of the Good, and what we call evil is simply the absence of Good on some level.

    As for the Archons, according to Christianity, Jesus already destroyed their power and authority. I think there's a lot of symbolic truth in that.

  27. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Charles Manson wrote a song about that. It was a big hit with the Brian Wilson Neil Young party set.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Charlie Manson is one talented individual.

    I liked his take on Boyd Rice and Michael Moynihan:

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Did you ever read/hear the Tracy Twyman bit where she and husband put a curse on Boyd Rice and six weeks later husband was dead?

    I think I would have gone straight into a nun enclave but she kept on at it for a few more years. Aye ^ 7.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  28. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If someone told you that you will realize Truth immediately but would cease to exist, would you accept that?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Another Polish Perspective

    The choice of Pointless Existence Without Meaningful Truth versus
    Pointless Truth Without Meaningful Existence is a false one.

  29. @AP
    @ Beckow from previous Open Thread

    Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn’t have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.
     
    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has. No further shrinking is necessary.

    It would be – based on how the war goes – a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country
     
    If 2/3 of the refugees outside of Ukraine return to Ukraine, the current territory would have around 30 million people. A stalemate at the current lines (give or take Bakhmut and some other settlements) is the most likely result. Though Ukraine taking back more territory towards the Crimean corridor and rural Luhansk is not unlikely. (I doubt that Ukraine will be able to storm large cities like Donetsk)

    If Ukraine loses more territories in the East such as Zaporizhia city or Kharkiv (unlikely) it will be a few million less than that.

    If Ukraine loses Eastern territories plus Odessa (very unlikely) it will be down to 20 million or so.

    The worst case and extremely unlikely scenario would be Russia taking Kiev and all the pre-1939 Soviet territory. This would leave Ukraine with around 12-15 million people, depending on how many refugees settle there from the other side of the Iron Curtain. This territory would be about 140,000 sq. kilometers in size (the map below, plus Transarpathia with Uzhorod and Bukovyna with Chernivtsi) and would thus be slightly larger than Hungary + Slovakia with a similar population of those two countries combined.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Soviet_annexation_of_Eastern_Galicia_and_Volhynia_during_WWII.svg/1280px-Soviet_annexation_of_Eastern_Galicia_and_Volhynia_during_WWII.svg.png


    It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, ‘tourists’ would visit for the bars and security conferences.
     
    Nonsense. Lviv is a beautiful city that attracts young settlers. And it offers plenty of well paid programming jobs. The city's population has already increased by 150,000 as a result of this war. Entire companies with their young employees have moved to Lviv from places like Kharkiv. If Kiev were lost, many of the young from that city would move to Free Lviv rather than leave Ukraine entirely, and with peace many would return from where they have been refugees in places like Poland. It would most likely be a million plus city (before the war it had a population of about 750,000).

    It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).
     
    Eastern Poland (which doesn't have any large cities like Lviv) has a per capita GRP of around ~$11,000 which is a lot higher than Belarus's $8,567. Within western Ukraine, rural Volhynia and Zakarpattiya would probably be similar to that, while Galicia (Lviv) would be significantly higher.

    Romania has a per capita GDP that is slightly higher than Russia's. And that is with its large gypsy population included.

    Bulgaria is a lot richer than Belarus, and that is with its large gypsy population.

    Moldova is a small, isolated country, it is a stupid comparison.


    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine?
     
    Because if the Russians take Donbas they will try to take more. Russians will try to take what they can until they are stopped. Better to stop them in Donbas than to allow the Russians to turn Dnipro, or Kharkiv, etc. into wastelands.

    Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?
     
    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers
     
    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers. Median salary for programmer in Lviv was $3,000 per month in 2021:

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/lviv-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,4_IC3537517_KO5,22.htm


    who sells them trinkets
     
    The largest cable manufacturers for German cars is in Lviv oblast. Those are not "trinkets."

    Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That’s what they want
     
    That's what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia's murdering.

    But NATRO was and will be a remote possibility. Though the possibility has increased since the Russian invasion.


    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years
     
    Which one of those countries that NATO attacked has nuclear weapons?

    NATO has kept Russia out of countries, though.


    (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe).
     
    1,2000-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estmates.

    A small fraction of the amount of civilians killed by Russia in Chechnya or Ukraine. Places that didn't have NATO protection.


    If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.
     
    Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. There is no war over Finland joining NATO. Finland hasn't joined NATO yet, so there is no NATO protective shield. And Finland is much closer to getting in than Ukraine ever was. Yet Russia isn't moving against Finland. So clearly the problem is not a nation close to Russia joining NATO.

    The problem is Ukraine leaving the Russian World forever. Ukraine is strategically important for Moscow, if Moscow wants to be some sort of Great Power. The Russian Empire and the USSR both included Ukraine.

    As our former host correctly summarized, between EU integration and de-Russification policies, Ukraine was leaving Russia behind and cutting itself off completely, becoming as foreign to Russia as Poland, and this was the last chance for Russia to take it back, or to at least salvage as much of it as possible. They hoped to get it all (at least outside Galicia and Volhynia), but will settle for as much as they can.


    Regarding your denials: ‘but they postponed it year after year!” – are you really that stupid? That’s how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances.
     
    The fact that they never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.

    BTW, you ignored my statement about NATO as a rule not accepting any country than has ongoing territorial disputes. Russian lackeys like you were bragging how, by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia made NATO entrance for Ukraine impossible. It was a brilliant move by Putin.

    But now you claim that Ukraine was going to enter NATO anyways, and had to be stopped.

    Were Russian lackeys like you lying then, or lying now?

    Or were you too stupid to keep track?


    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato.
     
    It still does, that hasn't changed. It says that EU and NATO are strategic objectives. Crimea and Donbas are also part of Ukraine according to the Constitution.

    And NATO still declares that Ukraine will join NATO. So these things haven't changed since Russia's invasion.

    What has changed, is that Ukraine's military has integrated far more with NATO's military, and had proven itself as a battle-tested worthy potential member of NATO. So, as I wrote, odds of NATO membership have impr0ved as a result of this war, from 5% to 25%.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Beckow

    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.

    The pro Russian blogger “Slavland Chronicles” says that none of the young men in the families of his Ukrainian relatives have been called up nor do they have any fear of being called up. The press ganging videos that we see on Twitter are likely responses to crisis situations that pop up at various places on the first line of defense. Ukraine has been using cannon fodder to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.

    I’m not interested in which side is right, I’m interested in which side is winning. And Ukraine is clearly winning if you look at the conflict from a bird’s eye view and ignore all the minutia that people online sperg about.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William


    Ukraine is clearly winning
     
    Pyrrhus was winning. But he was smarter than some people we know.
    , @LatW
    @Greasy William


    Ukraine has been using... to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.
     
    The Ukrainian General Staff are not dumb. Ukraine essentially has two armies (or should have at least). One is on the front lines right now, the other is being prepared for the spring offensive.

    In other news:

    - RF not doing very well at Vuhledar, to put it mildly.

    - Wagner is no longer granted access to zeks, and apparently it is no longer allowed to mention Wagner on the Russian media. Maybe our "friend" Prigozhin took it a bit too far with his crazy PR.
  30. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her.
     
    If The Picture of Dorian Gray had one message, it was that Oscar Wilde did not like women.

    But I get tired of this feminist rhetoric that masculine men hate women. They don't, and normal women don't like soyjacks.

    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.
     
    It strikes me as more than a little borderline, when I blockquote you twice, and you (not replying to my actual reply to you) say that my reply doesn't address anything you said.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?
     
    To whom? You?

    What if I told you I was wearing a green sweater, and asking for billions of dollars, exactly like Ze? What if I said that I had the same lisp and haircut as Trudeau? Or that I took photos with shirtless Africans like Macron?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  31. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    A perceptive person will realise that Archons et co. are perhaps more powerful than all the sparks of Light around them - Archons move and enslave the sparks of Light, not vice versa.

    Student of Wisdom will soon thus realize that in all these theories the matters of evil are much more convoluted than the Matters of Good, so perhaps focusing more on the former is the right choice if our final goal is the Truth which perhaps makes us aware that neither Good is so good as we wished, nor the Evil so evil as we were told, and yet the opposition does exist.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    1. There’s no such thing as “archons”.

    2. Theories of evil are necessarily more convoluted because it is illusory.

    Otoh, I don’t think it is unhealthy that you treat these things as real. The descriptive word “illusion” does not mean the descripted phenomenon lacks power, or even personality. Just that it only exists as something partial.

    3. Light is there shining brightly, but humans turn away and cower, for fear of what it might reveal about themselves. And this is why they find truth so difficult, even maddening. Introduce bits of it too big for them to them, and watch them go insane.

    4. When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears
     
    Thank you Ma'am !

    (Bows...)

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, I'd say evil just takes good and twists it. It has no independent existence.

    However, in the spirit world there are beings with good, bad, or neutral intent. Not so different from people in that regard.

  32. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective

    1. There's no such thing as "archons".

    2. Theories of evil are necessarily more convoluted because it is illusory.

    Otoh, I don't think it is unhealthy that you treat these things as real. The descriptive word "illusion" does not mean the descripted phenomenon lacks power, or even personality. Just that it only exists as something partial.

    3. Light is there shining brightly, but humans turn away and cower, for fear of what it might reveal about themselves. And this is why they find truth so difficult, even maddening. Introduce bits of it too big for them to them, and watch them go insane.

    4. When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

    When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears

    Thank you Ma’am !

    (Bows…)

    • Thanks: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate. Alexis ds Tocqueville wrote of Algeria after the French conquest: “we cams and disorganized their traditional society”.
     
    Well we don’t have reliable data on literacy rates; but it does seem likely that literacy rates were relatively (compared to Europe) high during the Islamic Golden Age. Voltaire mentions in Philosophical Dictionary that: "Before the admirable invention of printing, books were rarer and more expensive than precious stones. Almost no books among the barbarian nations until Charlemagne, and from him to the French king Charles V., surnamed "the wise"; and from this Charles right to François, there is an extreme dearth. The Arabs alone had books from the eighth century of our era to the thirteenth. China was filled with them when we did not know how to read or write."

    It should be pointed out though that literacy and high culture activities in the Islamic world were confined to the urban areas; as in other civilizations. There are many hadiths where Muhammad proclaims to the Faithful that "seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim" and derivations thereof; but this was again predominantly pertinent to the leisured class in the urban Islamic centers. Out in the countryside; the peasants remained mostly non-Muslim (it took 3-4 centuries for Egypt to become majority Muslim) and were neglected by the new Islamic rulers; who saw non-believers first and foremost as a tax base. In the Umayad period the Arab rulers didn't bother to convert their subjects; since they held ethnic exclusivist notions of Islam. Only in the Abbasid period did conquered people like Persians attempt to join and co-opt Islam into a more universalist faith.


    The level of literacy and culture fell abysmally under Western domination.
     
    Here we have the classic chicken and egg problem. Did Western domination cause the decline in the Islamic world; or was the decline itself facilitate Western colonization? Bernard Lewis argues that the turning point in power relations between the West and the Islamic world was in 1683; when the Ottomans were defeated for the second time at Vienna. He posits a variety of causes; the discovery of the New World; exhaustion of mines and precious metals; a decline in trade through the ME; prioritization of military activity over commercial ones; and the Mongol invasions. Others have advanced the notion that Al-Ghazali attacks on neoplatonism discouraged the pursuit of knowledge. But revisionist scholars such as Dr. George Saliba have attempted to refute this argument of decline; instead asserting that it was only relative to the West, not absolute; and that scholarship continued centuries after Al-Ghazali and the Mongol invasion: https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-wealth-of-notions-my-review-of-oded-galors-the-journey-of-humanity/#comment-5302518

    I tend to favor the last argument; but my opinion is circumspect; as I believe it's extremely difficult to discern causal factors when n=1. Even with a millennia behind us, scholars haven't reached a consensus. "Only Allah encompasses all things in knowledge."

  33. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    A perceptive person will realise that Archons et co. are perhaps more powerful than all the sparks of Light around them - Archons move and enslave the sparks of Light, not vice versa.

    Student of Wisdom will soon thus realize that in all these theories the matters of evil are much more convoluted than the Matters of Good, so perhaps focusing more on the former is the right choice if our final goal is the Truth which perhaps makes us aware that neither Good is so good as we wished, nor the Evil so evil as we were told, and yet the opposition does exist.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I’m a non-dualist, so I don’t believe in two independent opposing principles. Literally everything is a form of the Good, and what we call evil is simply the absence of Good on some level.

    As for the Archons, according to Christianity, Jesus already destroyed their power and authority. I think there’s a lot of symbolic truth in that.

  34. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears
     
    Thank you Ma'am !

    (Bows...)

    Replies: @Yahya

    Islam presupposes a basic literacy of the Mum’een. Reading the scripture is seen as a part of the Din. In the core of Dar al Islam, the three Califates of the Islamic Golden Age, the majority of male population was literate. Alexis ds Tocqueville wrote of Algeria after the French conquest: “we cams and disorganized their traditional society”.

    Well we don’t have reliable data on literacy rates; but it does seem likely that literacy rates were relatively (compared to Europe) high during the Islamic Golden Age. Voltaire mentions in Philosophical Dictionary that: “Before the admirable invention of printing, books were rarer and more expensive than precious stones. Almost no books among the barbarian nations until Charlemagne, and from him to the French king Charles V., surnamed “the wise”; and from this Charles right to François, there is an extreme dearth. The Arabs alone had books from the eighth century of our era to the thirteenth. China was filled with them when we did not know how to read or write.”

    It should be pointed out though that literacy and high culture activities in the Islamic world were confined to the urban areas; as in other civilizations. There are many hadiths where Muhammad proclaims to the Faithful that “seeking knowledge is obligatory upon every Muslim” and derivations thereof; but this was again predominantly pertinent to the leisured class in the urban Islamic centers. Out in the countryside; the peasants remained mostly non-Muslim (it took 3-4 centuries for Egypt to become majority Muslim) and were neglected by the new Islamic rulers; who saw non-believers first and foremost as a tax base. In the Umayad period the Arab rulers didn’t bother to convert their subjects; since they held ethnic exclusivist notions of Islam. Only in the Abbasid period did conquered people like Persians attempt to join and co-opt Islam into a more universalist faith.

    The level of literacy and culture fell abysmally under Western domination.

    Here we have the classic chicken and egg problem. Did Western domination cause the decline in the Islamic world; or was the decline itself facilitate Western colonization? Bernard Lewis argues that the turning point in power relations between the West and the Islamic world was in 1683; when the Ottomans were defeated for the second time at Vienna. He posits a variety of causes; the discovery of the New World; exhaustion of mines and precious metals; a decline in trade through the ME; prioritization of military activity over commercial ones; and the Mongol invasions. Others have advanced the notion that Al-Ghazali attacks on neoplatonism discouraged the pursuit of knowledge. But revisionist scholars such as Dr. George Saliba have attempted to refute this argument of decline; instead asserting that it was only relative to the West, not absolute; and that scholarship continued centuries after Al-Ghazali and the Mongol invasion: https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-wealth-of-notions-my-review-of-oded-galors-the-journey-of-humanity/#comment-5302518

    I tend to favor the last argument; but my opinion is circumspect; as I believe it’s extremely difficult to discern causal factors when n=1. Even with a millennia behind us, scholars haven’t reached a consensus. “Only Allah encompasses all things in knowledge.”

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  35. @ Another Polish Perspective

    I think almost certainly that there probably is other life outside of the Earth. However, I’m less certain about the claims of ‘alien contact’ already having been made between them and us.

    I’m extremely leery of these particular contemporary ‘UFO’ claims due to the context of the times, ie a drive by some, hook or by crook, to stampede the peoples of the world to give up, whether they really want to or not, what little sovereignty and identity they have left so that these powerful people and their hangers on may unhindered create a global superstate/empire.

    This meme has been out there awhile.

    A Sept, ’63, episode of the sci-fi show the Outer Limits entitled ‘Architects of Fear’ featured a cabal of ‘progressive’ scientist whom, naturally for everyone else’s ‘own good’, unilaterally took it upon themselves to fake an alien invasion to drive mankind together.

    One of the scientist, who has volunteered to be surgically transformed into an alien, is to use a weather balloon…err weather satellite, as an ersatz alien spaceship so he may land at the United Nations and dictate to an awed and terrified world a new era of peace and goodwill.

    The plan implodes however and the ‘alien’ scientist ends up dead.

    The brief clip below of the episode includes a good message at the end that explains how artificially manufactured fear and terrorization is not a productive way to go in bringing about real world peace.

    ‘Using Tricks to Scare People’ – The Architects of Fear (Sept ’63)

    US President Ronald Reagan’s 1987 speech to the United Nations describing how an ‘alien threat’ would be the ideal device to unite mankind.

    ‘An Alien Threat From Outside This World’ (Sept 21, 1987)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Architects_of_Fear

    https://www.cultureready.org/blog/reagans-1987-un-speech-alien-threat-resonates-now

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @S

    There is absolutely no reason to stage "alien invasion" to scare people off in order to unite them (this point is often completely missed off), UNLESS of course you have a strong suspicion (or even certainty) that aliens do exist and have an interest on Earth, and you want somehow be proactive, especially as you until now have kept your populations rather ignorant about aliens.

    So even if this isn't about [fake] aliens, it is about [real] aliens ultimately.

    BTW, a standard scenario - recently presented in the "Moonfall" movie - says that not only aliens exist, but there are good aliens and bad aliens, which is not an obvious point too - why can't aliens simply be indifferent..?!

    As for the current operation, the missile which shot down the "aliens" is Sidewinder, a rather old missile from 1956, which again makes its targets pretty unlikely "real aliens".

    The real alien disclosure should have something to do with crop circles etc.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  36. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Charlie Manson is one talented individual.

    I liked his take on Boyd Rice and Michael Moynihan:

    https://youtu.be/XaSnkjqeY-U

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you ever read/hear the Tracy Twyman bit where she and husband put a curse on Boyd Rice and six weeks later husband was dead?

    I think I would have gone straight into a nun enclave but she kept on at it for a few more years. Aye ^ 7.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Twyman and her husband were investigating a lot of creepy stuff. They both were spiritual tourists that ended in some dark and deadly places. The stuff Charlie Manson was blabbering about Boyd and Mike applies even more to Tracy and Brian. And I don't think that Hareth Bustani was an Arab but I wouldn't write more about it.

  37. @Greasy William
    @AP


    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.
     
    The pro Russian blogger "Slavland Chronicles" says that none of the young men in the families of his Ukrainian relatives have been called up nor do they have any fear of being called up. The press ganging videos that we see on Twitter are likely responses to crisis situations that pop up at various places on the first line of defense. Ukraine has been using cannon fodder to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.

    I'm not interested in which side is right, I'm interested in which side is winning. And Ukraine is clearly winning if you look at the conflict from a bird's eye view and ignore all the minutia that people online sperg about.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW

    Ukraine is clearly winning

    Pyrrhus was winning. But he was smarter than some people we know.

  38. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    She likes homos but you can bet most homos do not like her.
     
    If The Picture of Dorian Gray had one message, it was that Oscar Wilde did not like women.

    But I get tired of this feminist rhetoric that masculine men hate women. They don't, and normal women don't like soyjacks.

    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

    Maddow isn’t even 1/8th Middle Eastern; you twit.

    ScarJo looks Germanic/Nordic.

    Jennifer Connelly looks Black Irish or Italian.

    Would pass as Middle Eastern if a few facial features were tweaked though.

    Wouldn’t mind accepting her to the fold. She was born in Cairo after all.

    Is also beautiful and intelligent.

    You can keep the other two.

    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture,

    I don’t recall commenting on that. Though I’m open to being wrong. You are welcome to provide a link to my comment.

    Blacks do have a culture; both in Africa and America. The former is primitive and the latter depraved; but they are distinct cultures nonetheless. You are conflating “bad” with “nothing”.

    but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that.

    There are pockets of creditable high-culture in Europe. Most of it is indeed “coasting” on previous accomplishments; but that is both a sin and a virtue. It can be good to preserve the achievements of one’s ancestors; whether in literature, music, film, art or architecture. I don’t see the issue with performing Bach or Mozart in a French cathedral every weekend. Many non-European peoples also tend to replay the same music from their golden ages. The Ancient Egyptians maintained the same aesthetic for thousands of years. On the other hand, innovation and creativity are also worthy endeavors. Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing. Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans; likewise Alexandria was for a millennia the most culturally productive city in the Western world. The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    I don’t think anyone has a finger on the causes of Western cultural decline. Some posit a general downward trend starting in WW1; though I view the timeline as variable depending on cultural activity. Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century. James Huneker in Old Fogy contended that “no great music [has been] made since the death of Beethoven”. That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    @Latw

    Irish German maybe?

    Anglin doesn’t need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Apparently Irish-Americans now think themselves Aryan ubermenschen.

    The deracination must’ve gotten to some of them. Very sad really.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

    On the other hand, the internet does say Connelly looks like a minor actress called Rena Sofer, both of whose parents were Russian Jews, and so somewhat Middle Eastern, and therefore actually more Middle Eastern than Maddow.

    She also looks a lot like Demi Moore, who seems to have an English background and an actress called Cobie Smulders, who is Dutch and English by background too.

    Please note that "black Irish" is not actually a genetic thing. Just white Irish people with dark hair and some complete myths, like the "sailors from the Spanish Armada."

    As for "decline", I disagree that there's any such thing. Just a lowering of average standards, the same way the IQ of the university system inevitably decreased as the proportion of the population attending university went from 5% to 60%.


    Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing
     
    The presence of foreigners is a key ingredient to cultural flourishing. This is why rulers like Catherine the Great would invite them. The exchange of ideas in person is extremely important. However, that does depend on the foreigners you import. And the types who are necessary for cultural flourishing are obviously few in number and therefore would not qualify as "mass" migration.

    Anyone who thinks Rushdie, Einstein or Conrad detracted from the countries they ended up in is being stupid.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @songbird
    @Yahya


    Maddow isn’t even 1/8th Middle Eastern
     
    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.
     
    Just how cosmopolitan was it, separated by the Himalayas, the Gobi, and the Pacific, and with the closer and more habitable places subjected to wave, after wave of Han colonization, from extremely fertile river valley bases, which had no close parallels in that geographic sphere? What would be the percentage of non-Han within core Han areas, not counting colonial expansions which brought them in contact with China's current minorities? (quite a many of them fairly Han-looking) More than 1%? 2%? There were <20,000 foreigners in China at the time of the Boxer Rebellion (including Japanese), and that was with steamships and rail.

    Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans
     
    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth. The Aeneid (not a novel) is quite good with caveats, but it is based on much older myths (How old is the first vase with Aeneas carrying his father on his shoulders?), and so it shouldn't be considered a purely imperial product.

    There really isn't any close historical analogue to the modern West that was a success story. Certainly not with the same percentages. (Though it hasn't stopped a lot of revisionists from trying)

    Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century.
     
    I would say this is fairly self-evident. Musical tradition will be strongest when there are (1.) noble patrons, and (2.) the highest percentage of live performers. Phonograph was invented in about 1877, and first radio broadcast of music, in my very own neck of the woods, was in 1906.

    Anglin doesn’t need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.
     
    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don't support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you? I guess you've won me over, and I'll now choose sides in the Palestinian conflict, with the future expectation, without the slightest doubt in my mind, that the Palestinians and the Arabs who say they support them are honorable people and that my support will be reciprocal.

    Keep winning friends and influencing people! You are a fine ambassador for Arabs everywhere!

    Replies: @S, @Yahya

    , @Coconuts
    @Yahya


    That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.
     
    Woke is a special problem because of the belief it includes that cultural discourses create reality, it makes them very sensitive to how people talk about or depict things. The ideas about epistemic violence and hidden systems of power encoded in culture causing physical violence are related to this. I think putting so much emphasis on discourse control and harm elimination is obviously destructive to artistic freedom and creativity.

    A relatively common explanation of Western cultural decline, in Nietzsche but in plenty of other writers, was the rise of the mass man and the democratic spirit in politics.

    Imo the current mass migration is a problem for creativity because people are inhibited from engaging freely with it and addressing all the issues it raises in an unfiltered way, just as it is becoming more relevant. People creating art are in some way in a dialogue with the society around them and need to have a feel for its values, spirit and social forms, in various Western countries mass immigration is reaching a scale where it is starting to modify these things. Now the process is also being heavily monitored and controlled by bureaucratic political authorities and mass media, taken together I feel this kills inspiration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  39. Hey Bashi,

    Just a few additional notes to what we spoke about on the last thread re: October 1993:

    There was everything that was needed (constitution, laws, separation of powers, political parties of all persuasion). It’s just that it didn’t square up well with the “reforms” and their “curators”.

    Right, this is quite crucial and would be worth analyzing at some point (not that this would change much in today’s context, but it would be interesting to know). However, my point still stands – the system was established in the sense you described, as in, it was set up, but it was still too fragile (the ruling groups were not fully entrenched, we can see there was a struggle for power). Which is, of course, sad to wreck such a new, fragile system instead of trying to strengthen it. Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.

    It was heading in that direction. That’s why stopping it was a crime even without the protesters’ massacre.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns. Russia could probably pull it off on her own, but at the time the Western funding was important – from what I understand, there was borderline hunger (Bush elder was sending chicken drumsticks and canned food), and there was a default? This is of course sad and a disgusting factor that the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.
     
    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president. After the coup and the massacre Bor'ka alkash rewrote the constitution. Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm. The first post-Soviet constitution was sensible and balanced. These apes used it as toilet paper. The parliament was a real legislative body, they made it a rubber stamp machine.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.
     
    There was some talking about CCCP 2.0 but I think none really believed it. And the Supreme Soviet was as nationalistic as it was leftist (see the Stanislav Govorukhin being denounced below by a commie). For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy. The parliament was Red-Brown. The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime. It was to be done before anything else. When the conflict ended in Parliament's defeat, the corrupt nomenklatura and the organized crime, who fought together against the Red Browns, morphed into the nascent oligarchy.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns.
     
    The Red Browns wanted to find and clame back the "gold of the Communist Parry" that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid. They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    there was a default?
     
    It was in 1998 when the scoundrels in charge stole the Western financial aid and refused to pay back the loans.

    the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.
     
    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    https://youtu.be/Cs5wez1JQ4A

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S, @LatW

  40. @Ivashka the fool
    To Coconuts and S, about the topic discussed by Charles Maurras in the excerpt posted by Coconuts.

    I was going to write a lenghty and unhinged rant, same as usual, and then I learned that someone (Rolo Slavskyi) has published some Shafarevich's translation on Unz Review.

    https://www.unz.com/article/postscript-to-the-three-thousand-year-old-enigma/

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts

    Thanks for the two intriguing articles. They both make many good points and are a very good description of the present situation.

    Any Euro people wishing to survive will have a lot of rebuilding to do, and probably be starting off small in size and number.

  41. @S
    @ Another Polish Perspective

    I think almost certainly that there probably is other life outside of the Earth. However, I'm less certain about the claims of 'alien contact' already having been made between them and us.

    I'm extremely leery of these particular contemporary 'UFO' claims due to the context of the times, ie a drive by some, hook or by crook, to stampede the peoples of the world to give up, whether they really want to or not, what little sovereignty and identity they have left so that these powerful people and their hangers on may unhindered create a global superstate/empire.

    This meme has been out there awhile.

    A Sept, '63, episode of the sci-fi show the Outer Limits entitled 'Architects of Fear' featured a cabal of 'progressive' scientist whom, naturally for everyone else's 'own good', unilaterally took it upon themselves to fake an alien invasion to drive mankind together.

    One of the scientist, who has volunteered to be surgically transformed into an alien, is to use a weather balloon...err weather satellite, as an ersatz alien spaceship so he may land at the United Nations and dictate to an awed and terrified world a new era of peace and goodwill.

    The plan implodes however and the 'alien' scientist ends up dead.

    The brief clip below of the episode includes a good message at the end that explains how artificially manufactured fear and terrorization is not a productive way to go in bringing about real world peace.


    'Using Tricks to Scare People' - The Architects of Fear (Sept '63)

    https://youtu.be/fh7hqOkfzas


    US President Ronald Reagan's 1987 speech to the United Nations describing how an 'alien threat' would be the ideal device to unite mankind.


    'An Alien Threat From Outside This World' (Sept 21, 1987)

    https://youtu.be/MAAHgAuti84


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Architects_of_Fear

    https://www.cultureready.org/blog/reagans-1987-un-speech-alien-threat-resonates-now

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    There is absolutely no reason to stage “alien invasion” to scare people off in order to unite them (this point is often completely missed off), UNLESS of course you have a strong suspicion (or even certainty) that aliens do exist and have an interest on Earth, and you want somehow be proactive, especially as you until now have kept your populations rather ignorant about aliens.

    So even if this isn’t about [fake] aliens, it is about [real] aliens ultimately.

    BTW, a standard scenario – recently presented in the “Moonfall” movie – says that not only aliens exist, but there are good aliens and bad aliens, which is not an obvious point too – why can’t aliens simply be indifferent..?!

    As for the current operation, the missile which shot down the “aliens” is Sidewinder, a rather old missile from 1956, which again makes its targets pretty unlikely “real aliens”.

    The real alien disclosure should have something to do with crop circles etc.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Since the current system is ultimately about control, if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a "double" aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled. Then, when real aliens appear or make their move, you already have your populations primed, eg. "Aliens different from our [fake] aliens are bad aliens". Note that great majority of alien movies are about hostile aliens, and even in the Star Trek Federation all high-level commanders are humans.

    In the end, it is more about politics than technology.

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective

  42. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I don't find it funny because I don't have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Instead, it is just nonsense. There are no lack of beautiful people on American television. Instead,there is a lack of truly ugly people. Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking! Even though British people are the best looking people in the world, of course.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Barbarossa

    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.

    Agree. And it’s a net loss for China to have Western men of Anglin’s profile to boost for it.

    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn’t at all.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I think a lot of East Asians suffer from a wounded masculinity because your mothers are too controlling. It isn't always the case, but I imagine that it has only gotten more concentrated the fewer children those mothers have had. Same effort, fewer children, more anxiety.

    A lot of highQ peoples would benefit from Bryan Caplan's subtlety pro-natalist mantra that parenting doesn't matter. It would make the men happier and more assertive, the women less shrewish, and the birth rate higher, because the cost, both monetary and in time and effort, of child-raising would go down.

    , @LatW
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn’t at all.
     
    This is actually a big one. Ok, so here it is from someone from the region.. :)

    The man in the video, is he pure Chinese or a Hapa? Seems like pure Chinese. He has a good combo of boyish looks with a somewhat rugged masculinity - that's always very appealing. He must also have a mellow personality - a White guy equivalent of that probably would have a more difficult personality or even motivation (not necessarily, but likely, since he'd be desirable "relationship material" for many White women) and the relationship dynamic would be very different (I've noticed that Asian men are much easier - not to say there aren't attractive White guys who are easy to communicate with, of course, there are, it's just with Asians it is immediately noticeable - they are very kind, mellow, non-confrontational or non-edgy, what little experience I've had talking to Chinese in particular - this may seem like a non-attractive feature for a man initially but it is actually helpful in the long term).

    There are some interesting types, among the Japanese, as well. There were a couple of interesting types in the Marco Polo cast, but I think they were Hapas.

    To be fully open with you, the type of Asian guy that a White woman will like, will have symmetrical features, be slightly taller than average and will be more rugged than the average Asian guy. Nothing new here and sorry to sound so blunt and vain, but it is so.

    Replies: @LatW

  43. @Yahya
    @songbird


    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

     

    Maddow isn't even 1/8th Middle Eastern; you twit.

    ScarJo looks Germanic/Nordic.

    Jennifer Connelly looks Black Irish or Italian.

    Would pass as Middle Eastern if a few facial features were tweaked though.

    Wouldn't mind accepting her to the fold. She was born in Cairo after all.

    Is also beautiful and intelligent.

    You can keep the other two.


    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture,
     
    I don't recall commenting on that. Though I'm open to being wrong. You are welcome to provide a link to my comment.

    Blacks do have a culture; both in Africa and America. The former is primitive and the latter depraved; but they are distinct cultures nonetheless. You are conflating "bad" with "nothing".


    but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that.

     

    There are pockets of creditable high-culture in Europe. Most of it is indeed "coasting" on previous accomplishments; but that is both a sin and a virtue. It can be good to preserve the achievements of one's ancestors; whether in literature, music, film, art or architecture. I don't see the issue with performing Bach or Mozart in a French cathedral every weekend. Many non-European peoples also tend to replay the same music from their golden ages. The Ancient Egyptians maintained the same aesthetic for thousands of years. On the other hand, innovation and creativity are also worthy endeavors. Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing. Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans; likewise Alexandria was for a millennia the most culturally productive city in the Western world. The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    I don't think anyone has a finger on the causes of Western cultural decline. Some posit a general downward trend starting in WW1; though I view the timeline as variable depending on cultural activity. Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century. James Huneker in Old Fogy contended that "no great music [has been] made since the death of Beethoven". That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    @Latw


    Irish German maybe?
     
    Anglin doesn't need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Apparently Irish-Americans now think themselves Aryan ubermenschen.

    The deracination must've gotten to some of them. Very sad really.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Coconuts

    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

    On the other hand, the internet does say Connelly looks like a minor actress called Rena Sofer, both of whose parents were Russian Jews, and so somewhat Middle Eastern, and therefore actually more Middle Eastern than Maddow.

    She also looks a lot like Demi Moore, who seems to have an English background and an actress called Cobie Smulders, who is Dutch and English by background too.

    Please note that “black Irish” is not actually a genetic thing. Just white Irish people with dark hair and some complete myths, like the “sailors from the Spanish Armada.”

    As for “decline”, I disagree that there’s any such thing. Just a lowering of average standards, the same way the IQ of the university system inevitably decreased as the proportion of the population attending university went from 5% to 60%.

    Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing

    The presence of foreigners is a key ingredient to cultural flourishing. This is why rulers like Catherine the Great would invite them. The exchange of ideas in person is extremely important. However, that does depend on the foreigners you import. And the types who are necessary for cultural flourishing are obviously few in number and therefore would not qualify as “mass” migration.

    Anyone who thinks Rushdie, Einstein or Conrad detracted from the countries they ended up in is being stupid.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

     

    Work on your reading comprehension skills.

    ---

    Maddow only has one Jewish grandparent.

    Connelly's mother was fully Jewish. Makes her 2x more Middle Eastern by blood.

    My objection to Maddow is not on phenotype; but beauty.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    Connelly needs only a few facial operations and a hijab; and we'll have her fitting into the Middle East in no-time:


    https://st3.depositphotos.com/1022904/16019/v/600/depositphotos_160190176-stock-video-portrait-of-arabic-young-woman.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

  44. @Another Polish Perspective
    @S

    There is absolutely no reason to stage "alien invasion" to scare people off in order to unite them (this point is often completely missed off), UNLESS of course you have a strong suspicion (or even certainty) that aliens do exist and have an interest on Earth, and you want somehow be proactive, especially as you until now have kept your populations rather ignorant about aliens.

    So even if this isn't about [fake] aliens, it is about [real] aliens ultimately.

    BTW, a standard scenario - recently presented in the "Moonfall" movie - says that not only aliens exist, but there are good aliens and bad aliens, which is not an obvious point too - why can't aliens simply be indifferent..?!

    As for the current operation, the missile which shot down the "aliens" is Sidewinder, a rather old missile from 1956, which again makes its targets pretty unlikely "real aliens".

    The real alien disclosure should have something to do with crop circles etc.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Since the current system is ultimately about control, if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a “double” aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled. Then, when real aliens appear or make their move, you already have your populations primed, eg. “Aliens different from our [fake] aliens are bad aliens”. Note that great majority of alien movies are about hostile aliens, and even in the Star Trek Federation all high-level commanders are humans.

    In the end, it is more about politics than technology.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a “double” aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled.
     
    Did you watch B5:Crusade?

    Exactly that plot with some extra X-Files homage thrown in.

    PEACE 😇

    https://youtu.be/JLI4OocZHVQ

    https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Visitors_from_Down_the_Street#Summary
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I wouldn't be totally surprised if that would be "aliens" revenge for shooting down their crafts (at least it could be explained in this way).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ohios-apocalyptic-chemical-disaster-rages

    Interestingly, it happened near "Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA" which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn't acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct. They must be much older, in fact.
    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).

    Replies: @Yahya

  45. @Greasy William
    @AP


    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.
     
    The pro Russian blogger "Slavland Chronicles" says that none of the young men in the families of his Ukrainian relatives have been called up nor do they have any fear of being called up. The press ganging videos that we see on Twitter are likely responses to crisis situations that pop up at various places on the first line of defense. Ukraine has been using cannon fodder to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.

    I'm not interested in which side is right, I'm interested in which side is winning. And Ukraine is clearly winning if you look at the conflict from a bird's eye view and ignore all the minutia that people online sperg about.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @LatW

    Ukraine has been using… to hold the front line while building up the real army in reserve.

    The Ukrainian General Staff are not dumb. Ukraine essentially has two armies (or should have at least). One is on the front lines right now, the other is being prepared for the spring offensive.

    In other news:

    – RF not doing very well at Vuhledar, to put it mildly.

    – Wagner is no longer granted access to zeks, and apparently it is no longer allowed to mention Wagner on the Russian media. Maybe our “friend” Prigozhin took it a bit too far with his crazy PR.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
  46. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Agree. And it's a net loss for China to have Western men of Anglin's profile to boost for it.

    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn't at all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxdJHYIjvEE

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    I think a lot of East Asians suffer from a wounded masculinity because your mothers are too controlling. It isn’t always the case, but I imagine that it has only gotten more concentrated the fewer children those mothers have had. Same effort, fewer children, more anxiety.

    A lot of highQ peoples would benefit from Bryan Caplan’s subtlety pro-natalist mantra that parenting doesn’t matter. It would make the men happier and more assertive, the women less shrewish, and the birth rate higher, because the cost, both monetary and in time and effort, of child-raising would go down.

  47. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

    On the other hand, the internet does say Connelly looks like a minor actress called Rena Sofer, both of whose parents were Russian Jews, and so somewhat Middle Eastern, and therefore actually more Middle Eastern than Maddow.

    She also looks a lot like Demi Moore, who seems to have an English background and an actress called Cobie Smulders, who is Dutch and English by background too.

    Please note that "black Irish" is not actually a genetic thing. Just white Irish people with dark hair and some complete myths, like the "sailors from the Spanish Armada."

    As for "decline", I disagree that there's any such thing. Just a lowering of average standards, the same way the IQ of the university system inevitably decreased as the proportion of the population attending university went from 5% to 60%.


    Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing
     
    The presence of foreigners is a key ingredient to cultural flourishing. This is why rulers like Catherine the Great would invite them. The exchange of ideas in person is extremely important. However, that does depend on the foreigners you import. And the types who are necessary for cultural flourishing are obviously few in number and therefore would not qualify as "mass" migration.

    Anyone who thinks Rushdie, Einstein or Conrad detracted from the countries they ended up in is being stupid.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

    Work on your reading comprehension skills.

    Maddow only has one Jewish grandparent.

    Connelly’s mother was fully Jewish. Makes her 2x more Middle Eastern by blood.

    My objection to Maddow is not on phenotype; but beauty.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    Connelly needs only a few facial operations and a hijab; and we’ll have her fitting into the Middle East in no-time:

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Yahya

    Connelly:
    A.) Has had her nose done
    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long. I don't see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly's appearance

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya


    Connelly’s mother was fully Jewish.
     
    I didn't even think of that. Sorry.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.
     
    A female homosexual, maybe. The Middle East is definitely a land that prioritises ogling men over women.
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    P (jennifer connaly has sucked harvey weinstein's dick) ~ .6

  48. (from previous thread)

    The LFTR (~liquid fluoride thorium reactor) as originally developed at Oak Ridge is pretty much an ideal reactor with one exception. It was basically the worst design imaginable in terms of proliferation and produced ready to use U-233 which is actually worse than plutonium in this respect.

    U233 is mediocre for weapons production. Only one has been tested and it was a fizzle. Worse yet the U233 cycle is poisoned by U232 which produces very undesirable, frequent, high gamma decay events. This is not a power plant issue, but it can easily break sensitive electronics in weapons applications.

    Comparatively, Pu239 is a much easier pathway to a functional fission weapon.

    There are ways to work around this aspect which hopefully have been fleshed out.

    Because breeder style power plant reactors consume the fissile material they are creating, diversion to other uses is difficult. Over accumulation is an undesirable characteristic to be minimized.

    While fission bomb material is also produced by breeding, the reactor construction is quite different.

    When I was a kid thorium reserves were thought to be good for tens of thousands of years.

    Thorium is inevitably dug up with other Rare Earth Elements. Thousands of years of fuel is not an over statement.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300

    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.

    From what I remember, thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage, recently in Halden.

    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium (in such a case we wouldn't build them at all) - clearly we could have a couple of military reactors and the rest of them running on thorium.

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

  49. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Since the current system is ultimately about control, if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a "double" aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled. Then, when real aliens appear or make their move, you already have your populations primed, eg. "Aliens different from our [fake] aliens are bad aliens". Note that great majority of alien movies are about hostile aliens, and even in the Star Trek Federation all high-level commanders are humans.

    In the end, it is more about politics than technology.

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective

    if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a “double” aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled.

    Did you watch B5:Crusade?

    Exactly that plot with some extra X-Files homage thrown in.

    PEACE 😇

    https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Visitors_from_Down_the_Street#Summary

  50. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Agree. And it's a net loss for China to have Western men of Anglin's profile to boost for it.

    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn't at all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxdJHYIjvEE

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @LatW

    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn’t at all.

    This is actually a big one. Ok, so here it is from someone from the region.. 🙂

    The man in the video, is he pure Chinese or a Hapa? Seems like pure Chinese. He has a good combo of boyish looks with a somewhat rugged masculinity – that’s always very appealing. He must also have a mellow personality – a White guy equivalent of that probably would have a more difficult personality or even motivation (not necessarily, but likely, since he’d be desirable “relationship material” for many White women) and the relationship dynamic would be very different (I’ve noticed that Asian men are much easier – not to say there aren’t attractive White guys who are easy to communicate with, of course, there are, it’s just with Asians it is immediately noticeable – they are very kind, mellow, non-confrontational or non-edgy, what little experience I’ve had talking to Chinese in particular – this may seem like a non-attractive feature for a man initially but it is actually helpful in the long term).

    There are some interesting types, among the Japanese, as well. There were a couple of interesting types in the Marco Polo cast, but I think they were Hapas.

    To be fully open with you, the type of Asian guy that a White woman will like, will have symmetrical features, be slightly taller than average and will be more rugged than the average Asian guy. Nothing new here and sorry to sound so blunt and vain, but it is so.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW

    Just some more friendly input here: in many recent Chinese movies, usually revolving around dragons, it is quite common to see these actors who do all these amazing otherworldly jumps and tricks. Both men and women. It is quite entertaining but I wouldn't say that in and of itself it adds much to pure sex appeal. It's better that they lift as it adds a bit of robustness.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  51. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

     

    Work on your reading comprehension skills.

    ---

    Maddow only has one Jewish grandparent.

    Connelly's mother was fully Jewish. Makes her 2x more Middle Eastern by blood.

    My objection to Maddow is not on phenotype; but beauty.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    Connelly needs only a few facial operations and a hijab; and we'll have her fitting into the Middle East in no-time:


    https://st3.depositphotos.com/1022904/16019/v/600/depositphotos_160190176-stock-video-portrait-of-arabic-young-woman.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Connelly:
    A.) Has had her nose done
    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long. I don’t see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly’s appearance

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Greasy William


    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long.
     
    I know; that's why I said she looks Black Irish.

    I don’t see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly’s appearance

     

    I know; that's why I said she requires some facial surgery to pass in the Middle East.

    Her hair and skin color already fit the bill; just the facial features are too European for the Middle East.

    On the other hand; some native Middle Easterners look more Irish than Connelly:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02943/izzat-al-douri-ira_2943572b.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-UzxqpPLc8&ab_channel=ABCNews

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkvxJYG1coI&ab_channel=MazeejByLucasSakr

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_zetLvrhE&ab_channel=DalalAbuAmneh-%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%A2%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A9

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Not Raul

  52. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Since the current system is ultimately about control, if a factor appears you cant control (eg. real aliens), you could introduce a "double" aka fake aliens to keep populations controlled. Then, when real aliens appear or make their move, you already have your populations primed, eg. "Aliens different from our [fake] aliens are bad aliens". Note that great majority of alien movies are about hostile aliens, and even in the Star Trek Federation all high-level commanders are humans.

    In the end, it is more about politics than technology.

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective

    I wouldn’t be totally surprised if that would be “aliens” revenge for shooting down their crafts (at least it could be explained in this way).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ohios-apocalyptic-chemical-disaster-rages

    Interestingly, it happened near “Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA” which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn’t acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct. They must be much older, in fact.
    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Interestingly, it happened near “Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA” which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn’t acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct.
     
    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land. It doesn't necessarily indicate an expression of support for the Palestinian state or people. Edward Gibbon was referring to the area by that name all the way back in 1776:

    Under the successors of Alexander, Syria was the seat of the Seleucidae, who reigned over Upper Asia, till the successful revolt of the Parthians confined their dominions between the Euphrates and the Mediterranean. When Syria became subject to the Romans, it formed the eastern frontier of their empire: nor did that province, in its utmost latitude, know any other bounds than the mountains of Cappadocia to the north, and towards the south, the confines of Egypt, and the Red Sea. Phoenicia and Palestine were sometimes annexed to, and sometimes separated from, the jurisdiction of Syria. The former of these was a narrow and rocky coast; the latter was a territory scarcely superior to Wales, either in fertility or extent. [821] Yet Phoenicia and Palestine will forever live in the memory of mankind; since America, as well as Europe, has received letters from the one, and religion from the other. [83] A sandy desert, alike destitute of wood and water, skirts along the doubtful confine of Syria, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. The wandering life of the Arabs was inseparably connected with their independence; and wherever, on some spots less barren than the rest, they ventured to for many settled habitations, they soon became subjects to the Roman empire. [84]

     

    The village in Ohio was founded in 1828, before the conflict started.

    -----------


    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).
     
    The British upper class were not of one mind.

    The British elite in Britain proper tended to support Zionism.

    British officers who were sent to the Middle East, such as T.E. Lawrence, Glubb Pasha, and Richard Burton tended to like Arabs better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpytwj_4Hag&ab_channel=BritishPath%C3%A9

    Among the British public today, most are ambivalent, and only marginally more Britons support Palestine (22%) vs Israel (16%): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/03/11/israel-and-palestine-whose-side-britain

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

  53. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

     

    Work on your reading comprehension skills.

    ---

    Maddow only has one Jewish grandparent.

    Connelly's mother was fully Jewish. Makes her 2x more Middle Eastern by blood.

    My objection to Maddow is not on phenotype; but beauty.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    Connelly needs only a few facial operations and a hijab; and we'll have her fitting into the Middle East in no-time:


    https://st3.depositphotos.com/1022904/16019/v/600/depositphotos_160190176-stock-video-portrait-of-arabic-young-woman.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Connelly’s mother was fully Jewish.

    I didn’t even think of that. Sorry.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    A female homosexual, maybe. The Middle East is definitely a land that prioritises ogling men over women.

  54. @LatW
    Hey Bashi,

    Just a few additional notes to what we spoke about on the last thread re: October 1993:


    There was everything that was needed (constitution, laws, separation of powers, political parties of all persuasion). It’s just that it didn’t square up well with the “reforms” and their “curators”.
     
    Right, this is quite crucial and would be worth analyzing at some point (not that this would change much in today's context, but it would be interesting to know). However, my point still stands - the system was established in the sense you described, as in, it was set up, but it was still too fragile (the ruling groups were not fully entrenched, we can see there was a struggle for power). Which is, of course, sad to wreck such a new, fragile system instead of trying to strengthen it. Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.

    It was heading in that direction. That’s why stopping it was a crime even without the protesters’ massacre.
     
    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns. Russia could probably pull it off on her own, but at the time the Western funding was important - from what I understand, there was borderline hunger (Bush elder was sending chicken drumsticks and canned food), and there was a default? This is of course sad and a disgusting factor that the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.

    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president. After the coup and the massacre Bor’ka alkash rewrote the constitution. Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm. The first post-Soviet constitution was sensible and balanced. These apes used it as toilet paper. The parliament was a real legislative body, they made it a rubber stamp machine.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.

    There was some talking about CCCP 2.0 but I think none really believed it. And the Supreme Soviet was as nationalistic as it was leftist (see the Stanislav Govorukhin being denounced below by a commie). For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy. The parliament was Red-Brown. The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime. It was to be done before anything else. When the conflict ended in Parliament’s defeat, the corrupt nomenklatura and the organized crime, who fought together against the Red Browns, morphed into the nascent oligarchy.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns.

    The Red Browns wanted to find and clame back the “gold of the Communist Parry” that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid. They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    there was a default?

    It was in 1998 when the scoundrels in charge stole the Western financial aid and refused to pay back the loans.

    the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.

    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thomas Friedman writes 99% garbage. But he did write one eminently sensible sentence.

    "Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?"

    This idea applies to most places.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @YetAnotherAnon

    , @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR...then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.
     
    Yep.

    The Fall of Capitalism, ie the impending economic and political collapse of the United States and it's Western bloc, won't be a natural process at all either.

    This event, too, will have a subsequent looting of the remnants of the Capitalist economic system by those who are behind this manufactured and broadly controlled (crimethink, I know) Capitalist vs Communist dialectic, the worker being 'worthy of his wages' they tell themselves.

    As you allude, it's been an orchestrated top/down (rather than bottom/up) affair since the time of this man-made dialectic's birth in the proto-Capitalist American and proto-Communist French revolutions of 1776 and 1789 respectively.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president.
     
    Maybe they should've taken a bit more time with drafting a new constitution, because from what I understand, Yeltsin wanted to draft a new one from scratch, while Hasbulatov wanted to keep the one from the USSR and just amend it a little. Maybe none of the previous constitutions reflected the situation that was created after the USSR. Was enough time taken to figure out whether there should be parliamentary or presidential form of government?

    As to the actual events of the month of October, they say that there was a Двоевластие at that moment which must be a very critical and difficult situation that probably cannot last for very long. I would say it could be characterized as borderline civil war.

    Of course, it is tragic and, that this was also October, is quite symbolic.

    Understand that those who defended Yeltsin, the normal people (not just some ultra-liberal journalists or whatever), they didn't defend the oligarchy at the time, but as they phrased it "democracy" (the opposite of fascism and totalitarian communism in their mind).


    Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm.
     
    Yes, the nullifier.

    For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy.
     
    You know, in Latvia we, too, had something called the Civic Congress, it was ultra-nationalist but also from what I imagine would've been against neo-liberalism (had they been allowed to function longer). They did most of the work fighting for independence and did the most risky work, but then they were pushed aside and removed from gaining any power (removed by a kind of a coalition of mostly former Commies who changed colors as well as pro-Western nationalists and democrats and what later became liberals).

    But of course in Russia it was much more complex and more painful.

    The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime.
     
    The liberalization and privatization where needed but not as drastically, this process had to be managed more carefully. Especially in Russia. One of the problems I see there though is the ability to manage the former state properties to make them lucrative.

    The Red Browns wanted to find and claim back the “gold of the Communist Parry” that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid.
     
    This is understandable, but it would have taken time.

    They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.
     
    Correct, but again, the issue there would have been to take what resources were left over and create lucrative businesses out of them. I think this was the crucial moment that was missed and as a result a lot of national wealth was squandered. Just because it was hard to do, at the time it was easier to sell it to get the money quickly. So at this moment the most important thing is the mechanism and the people who are able to do this. Normal people didn't yet have the skills to do it but they could've gained those skills with patience.

    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.
     
    I can see your point (and your grievance, there is some foundation in it), however, something was seriously off already in the 1980s. Yea, things were better than during the collapse, but there were serious flaws that went beyond just the lack of private enterprise - why was there such deficit? There was a productivity problem. There were several decent size factories in the Baltic States, people worked a lot but the goods were shipped out. Urbanization was still going on, more goods were needed, some kind of a ramp of productivity was needed.

    Also, remember - oil prices collapsed right in the mid 80s when things were going the best.

    From Brookings.edu:

    "In 1973-74 the real price of crude oil more than tripled. After declining slightly in 1975-78, it doubled again in 1979-80. But the 1979-80 price increase was eroded between 1981 and 1985, as price declined by nearly 40 percent. Price then collapsed in the first half of 1986, falling by more than 50 percent."

    Another factor - the arms race. It was too much, it sucked in too much effort and human capital, money.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid.
     
    At least you got to keep the car, that's good.

    They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂
     
    That is so lame, and so low calorie. :( So sorry to hear that, it makes me sad. I have a couple of really sad stories, too, but they are too private and too painful to share. It doesn't have to do with food, though. Btw, you left early, hardship continued for a while.
  55. @LatW
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    China needs to be appealing to Western women like Sanna Marin, or it isn’t at all.
     
    This is actually a big one. Ok, so here it is from someone from the region.. :)

    The man in the video, is he pure Chinese or a Hapa? Seems like pure Chinese. He has a good combo of boyish looks with a somewhat rugged masculinity - that's always very appealing. He must also have a mellow personality - a White guy equivalent of that probably would have a more difficult personality or even motivation (not necessarily, but likely, since he'd be desirable "relationship material" for many White women) and the relationship dynamic would be very different (I've noticed that Asian men are much easier - not to say there aren't attractive White guys who are easy to communicate with, of course, there are, it's just with Asians it is immediately noticeable - they are very kind, mellow, non-confrontational or non-edgy, what little experience I've had talking to Chinese in particular - this may seem like a non-attractive feature for a man initially but it is actually helpful in the long term).

    There are some interesting types, among the Japanese, as well. There were a couple of interesting types in the Marco Polo cast, but I think they were Hapas.

    To be fully open with you, the type of Asian guy that a White woman will like, will have symmetrical features, be slightly taller than average and will be more rugged than the average Asian guy. Nothing new here and sorry to sound so blunt and vain, but it is so.

    Replies: @LatW

    Just some more friendly input here: in many recent Chinese movies, usually revolving around dragons, it is quite common to see these actors who do all these amazing otherworldly jumps and tricks. Both men and women. It is quite entertaining but I wouldn’t say that in and of itself it adds much to pure sex appeal. It’s better that they lift as it adds a bit of robustness.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @LatW

    Aaah, the typical Chinese hero movies of the genre "one against tens of thousands".

    The last one I saw, "The Shadow" was very pleasing aesthetically, it was like artsy movie + hero movie in one. Lovers joined in music there (the music below is played by them). Aside from that, there was a lot of calligraphy hanging around which wasn't translated at all! There was one feisty girl, a princess even, but she died, luckily for everyone, making. a throne free for our true, "shadowy" hero (the treacherous brother-king of the feisty princess died too, so the throne was truly free, but of course she was a problem for her brother too). Nevertheless, a movie was pretty dark, at least dark unlike a typical Chinese hero movie.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXZq-jx8zw


    I wasn't sure what was really the moral of the movie - it was a bit unusual for a Chinese movie to claim that everyone can be a king - but with the simple moral like "feisty women and treacherous men have no place in this world" I could agree.

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating. The film Fearless illustrates this--

    - Jet Li starts off by facing off against hugely muscular white fighters, and manages to defeat them by being more skilled, thereby demonstrating the "Chinese cultural superiority over whites."

    But this is actually a "self-own"-- because what if the white fighters learned become as skilled as Jet Li? whilst still being bigger and stronger.

    In real-life whites are stronger in absolute basis (World's Strongest Men), but East Asians are arguably stronger on a pound-for-pound basis (Olympic weightlifting). And David vs. Goliath match-ups you have cases the smaller, more skilled Slavs (Fedor, Cro Cop) beating the hulking East Asian (Hong Man Choi).

    - Jet Li's ultimate rival isn't white, but a Japanese samurai. He duels the samurai's katana with nunchaku and bests him. He only loses because the samurai's associate cheated and poisoned him. Although the samurai himself is portrayed as honorable (and the whole incident a fabrication).

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon. While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5wmpsW-Yk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4MZlPNU1w

    Replies: @A123, @AP, @LatW

  56. @Greasy William
    @Yahya

    Connelly:
    A.) Has had her nose done
    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long. I don't see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly's appearance

    Replies: @Yahya

    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long.

    I know; that’s why I said she looks Black Irish.

    I don’t see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly’s appearance

    I know; that’s why I said she requires some facial surgery to pass in the Middle East.

    Her hair and skin color already fit the bill; just the facial features are too European for the Middle East.

    On the other hand; some native Middle Easterners look more Irish than Connelly:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_zetLvrhE&ab_channel=DalalAbuAmneh-%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%A2%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A9

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Yahya

    A Bedouin soldier was killed in Israel.

    You could have changed the uniform for a Ukrainian soldier and nobody would know.

    But the cousin looks Saudi, converted to Judaism to become a Haredi rabbi.

    https://i1.wp.com/www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/63eb47c3f1c6d_1676363715.jpg

    https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2165715/family-of-heroes-the-lubavitch-cousin-of-the-bedouin-policeman-killed-in-terror-attack.html

    , @Not Raul
    @Yahya

    Harry’s real father?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02943/izzat-al-douri-ira_2943572b.jpg

    Replies: @sudden death

  57. @LatW
    @LatW

    Just some more friendly input here: in many recent Chinese movies, usually revolving around dragons, it is quite common to see these actors who do all these amazing otherworldly jumps and tricks. Both men and women. It is quite entertaining but I wouldn't say that in and of itself it adds much to pure sex appeal. It's better that they lift as it adds a bit of robustness.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Aaah, the typical Chinese hero movies of the genre “one against tens of thousands”.

    The last one I saw, “The Shadow” was very pleasing aesthetically, it was like artsy movie + hero movie in one. Lovers joined in music there (the music below is played by them). Aside from that, there was a lot of calligraphy hanging around which wasn’t translated at all! There was one feisty girl, a princess even, but she died, luckily for everyone, making. a throne free for our true, “shadowy” hero (the treacherous brother-king of the feisty princess died too, so the throne was truly free, but of course she was a problem for her brother too). Nevertheless, a movie was pretty dark, at least dark unlike a typical Chinese hero movie.

    I wasn’t sure what was really the moral of the movie – it was a bit unusual for a Chinese movie to claim that everyone can be a king – but with the simple moral like “feisty women and treacherous men have no place in this world” I could agree.

  58. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I wouldn't be totally surprised if that would be "aliens" revenge for shooting down their crafts (at least it could be explained in this way).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ohios-apocalyptic-chemical-disaster-rages

    Interestingly, it happened near "Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA" which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn't acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct. They must be much older, in fact.
    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).

    Replies: @Yahya

    Interestingly, it happened near “Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA” which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn’t acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct.

    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land. It doesn’t necessarily indicate an expression of support for the Palestinian state or people. Edward Gibbon was referring to the area by that name all the way back in 1776:

    Under the successors of Alexander, Syria was the seat of the Seleucidae, who reigned over Upper Asia, till the successful revolt of the Parthians confined their dominions between the Euphrates and the Mediterranean. When Syria became subject to the Romans, it formed the eastern frontier of their empire: nor did that province, in its utmost latitude, know any other bounds than the mountains of Cappadocia to the north, and towards the south, the confines of Egypt, and the Red Sea. Phoenicia and Palestine were sometimes annexed to, and sometimes separated from, the jurisdiction of Syria. The former of these was a narrow and rocky coast; the latter was a territory scarcely superior to Wales, either in fertility or extent. [821] Yet Phoenicia and Palestine will forever live in the memory of mankind; since America, as well as Europe, has received letters from the one, and religion from the other. [83] A sandy desert, alike destitute of wood and water, skirts along the doubtful confine of Syria, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. The wandering life of the Arabs was inseparably connected with their independence; and wherever, on some spots less barren than the rest, they ventured to for many settled habitations, they soon became subjects to the Roman empire. [84]

    The village in Ohio was founded in 1828, before the conflict started.

    ———–

    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).

    The British upper class were not of one mind.

    The British elite in Britain proper tended to support Zionism.

    British officers who were sent to the Middle East, such as T.E. Lawrence, Glubb Pasha, and Richard Burton tended to like Arabs better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpytwj_4Hag&ab_channel=BritishPath%C3%A9

    Among the British public today, most are ambivalent, and only marginally more Britons support Palestine (22%) vs Israel (16%): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/03/11/israel-and-palestine-whose-side-britain

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Almost no issue irrelevant to culture war has been more culture warred than Israel-Palestine in Britain. The most SJW town council would fly only the rainbow and the Palestinian flags for decades before they would fly the English flag. And you're not a political tranny if you don't have a keffiyeh to wear over your lace bra. Meanwhile, Israel flags will get flown alongside Ulster flags and are dear to small c conservatism.

    Obviously there are Jewish ultra-progressives who hate this, and anti-Semitic true conservatives, but they're pissing into the wind. The conflict has become emblematic of two personality types. And these correlate with the bulk of what the different sides of the culture war prefer. Support will therefore inevitably circle around 50/50.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya


    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land.
     
    Yes, I know this. But in USA you can meet names which clearly refer to the Bible, but mostly to its non-Jewish names like Moab or Canaan. Well, I just checked and there is quite a couple of Sodoms in USA too!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom

    Don't tell me that calling your place Sodom isn't Yahwe-trolling...!

    In this context, naming something "Palestine" and not "Judea" seems like a conscious choice.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

  59. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Interestingly, it happened near “Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA” which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn’t acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct.
     
    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land. It doesn't necessarily indicate an expression of support for the Palestinian state or people. Edward Gibbon was referring to the area by that name all the way back in 1776:

    Under the successors of Alexander, Syria was the seat of the Seleucidae, who reigned over Upper Asia, till the successful revolt of the Parthians confined their dominions between the Euphrates and the Mediterranean. When Syria became subject to the Romans, it formed the eastern frontier of their empire: nor did that province, in its utmost latitude, know any other bounds than the mountains of Cappadocia to the north, and towards the south, the confines of Egypt, and the Red Sea. Phoenicia and Palestine were sometimes annexed to, and sometimes separated from, the jurisdiction of Syria. The former of these was a narrow and rocky coast; the latter was a territory scarcely superior to Wales, either in fertility or extent. [821] Yet Phoenicia and Palestine will forever live in the memory of mankind; since America, as well as Europe, has received letters from the one, and religion from the other. [83] A sandy desert, alike destitute of wood and water, skirts along the doubtful confine of Syria, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. The wandering life of the Arabs was inseparably connected with their independence; and wherever, on some spots less barren than the rest, they ventured to for many settled habitations, they soon became subjects to the Roman empire. [84]

     

    The village in Ohio was founded in 1828, before the conflict started.

    -----------


    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).
     
    The British upper class were not of one mind.

    The British elite in Britain proper tended to support Zionism.

    British officers who were sent to the Middle East, such as T.E. Lawrence, Glubb Pasha, and Richard Burton tended to like Arabs better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpytwj_4Hag&ab_channel=BritishPath%C3%A9

    Among the British public today, most are ambivalent, and only marginally more Britons support Palestine (22%) vs Israel (16%): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/03/11/israel-and-palestine-whose-side-britain

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

    Almost no issue irrelevant to culture war has been more culture warred than Israel-Palestine in Britain. The most SJW town council would fly only the rainbow and the Palestinian flags for decades before they would fly the English flag. And you’re not a political tranny if you don’t have a keffiyeh to wear over your lace bra. Meanwhile, Israel flags will get flown alongside Ulster flags and are dear to small c conservatism.

    Obviously there are Jewish ultra-progressives who hate this, and anti-Semitic true conservatives, but they’re pissing into the wind. The conflict has become emblematic of two personality types. And these correlate with the bulk of what the different sides of the culture war prefer. Support will therefore inevitably circle around 50/50.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Teh decisive battle on Jews was fought over in the Labour Party, not the Tory Party which was partly founded by Benjamin Disraeli anyway. And I'm not talking about the Jeremy Corbyn battles.


    Instead you'd have to go back to the cabinet formed by Ramsay MacDonald. In this cabinet it was possible to have envisaged the small time chiseling of Arthur Greenwood as chancellor shooting down motorway building, house building car buying frenzy envisioned by, of all people, Oswald Mosley.


    Apparently the following racial outbursts happened in the cabinet concerning a Keynsian Credit Boom...before ww2. "Niggers on exported Bicycles" was Chancellor Greenwood's big idea. Remind you of Boris or Sunak?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZAdBs1LDxs


    that is the Treasury's Official Position, then as now.

  60. @Yahya
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lol at trying to claim that Jennifer Connelly looks more Middle Eastern than Rachel Maddow!

     

    Work on your reading comprehension skills.

    ---

    Maddow only has one Jewish grandparent.

    Connelly's mother was fully Jewish. Makes her 2x more Middle Eastern by blood.

    My objection to Maddow is not on phenotype; but beauty.

    Her being a homosexual also automatically excludes her from the Middle Eastern club.

    Connelly needs only a few facial operations and a hijab; and we'll have her fitting into the Middle East in no-time:


    https://st3.depositphotos.com/1022904/16019/v/600/depositphotos_160190176-stock-video-portrait-of-arabic-young-woman.jpg

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    P (jennifer connaly has sucked harvey weinstein’s dick) ~ .6

  61. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Interestingly, it happened near “Eastern Palestine, Ohio, USA” which suggests that Western forces supporting Palestinians didn’t acquire their sympathies just now and only due to the loathsome Israeli conduct.
     
    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land. It doesn't necessarily indicate an expression of support for the Palestinian state or people. Edward Gibbon was referring to the area by that name all the way back in 1776:

    Under the successors of Alexander, Syria was the seat of the Seleucidae, who reigned over Upper Asia, till the successful revolt of the Parthians confined their dominions between the Euphrates and the Mediterranean. When Syria became subject to the Romans, it formed the eastern frontier of their empire: nor did that province, in its utmost latitude, know any other bounds than the mountains of Cappadocia to the north, and towards the south, the confines of Egypt, and the Red Sea. Phoenicia and Palestine were sometimes annexed to, and sometimes separated from, the jurisdiction of Syria. The former of these was a narrow and rocky coast; the latter was a territory scarcely superior to Wales, either in fertility or extent. [821] Yet Phoenicia and Palestine will forever live in the memory of mankind; since America, as well as Europe, has received letters from the one, and religion from the other. [83] A sandy desert, alike destitute of wood and water, skirts along the doubtful confine of Syria, from the Euphrates to the Red Sea. The wandering life of the Arabs was inseparably connected with their independence; and wherever, on some spots less barren than the rest, they ventured to for many settled habitations, they soon became subjects to the Roman empire. [84]

     

    The village in Ohio was founded in 1828, before the conflict started.

    -----------


    Well, British upper-class officers liked Arabs much more than Jews, and upper-class Americans used to ape the British (like Henry James, hm).
     
    The British upper class were not of one mind.

    The British elite in Britain proper tended to support Zionism.

    British officers who were sent to the Middle East, such as T.E. Lawrence, Glubb Pasha, and Richard Burton tended to like Arabs better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpytwj_4Hag&ab_channel=BritishPath%C3%A9

    Among the British public today, most are ambivalent, and only marginally more Britons support Palestine (22%) vs Israel (16%): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/03/11/israel-and-palestine-whose-side-britain

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land.

    Yes, I know this. But in USA you can meet names which clearly refer to the Bible, but mostly to its non-Jewish names like Moab or Canaan. Well, I just checked and there is quite a couple of Sodoms in USA too!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom

    Don’t tell me that calling your place Sodom isn’t Yahwe-trolling…!

    In this context, naming something “Palestine” and not “Judea” seems like a conscious choice.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Don’t tell me that calling your place Sodom isn’t Yahwe-trolling.

     

    They better not be trolling me.

    I'll blow their damn airport up!

    And put a curse upon their souls.

    And it will not be lifted till they have repented to their Lord!

    Behold.

    , @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You can literally "Go to Hell" in Norway. There is an auto race there every year.


    https://hellrx.com/?lang=en

    HELL RX

    This year’s toughest motorsports experience! World RX of Norway in Hell (Lånkebanen)! – just 30 minutes from downtown Trondheim! See the world elites in rallycross give everything!
     
    PEACE 😇
  62. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.
     
    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president. After the coup and the massacre Bor'ka alkash rewrote the constitution. Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm. The first post-Soviet constitution was sensible and balanced. These apes used it as toilet paper. The parliament was a real legislative body, they made it a rubber stamp machine.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.
     
    There was some talking about CCCP 2.0 but I think none really believed it. And the Supreme Soviet was as nationalistic as it was leftist (see the Stanislav Govorukhin being denounced below by a commie). For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy. The parliament was Red-Brown. The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime. It was to be done before anything else. When the conflict ended in Parliament's defeat, the corrupt nomenklatura and the organized crime, who fought together against the Red Browns, morphed into the nascent oligarchy.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns.
     
    The Red Browns wanted to find and clame back the "gold of the Communist Parry" that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid. They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    there was a default?
     
    It was in 1998 when the scoundrels in charge stole the Western financial aid and refused to pay back the loans.

    the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.
     
    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    https://youtu.be/Cs5wez1JQ4A

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S, @LatW

    Thomas Friedman writes 99% garbage. But he did write one eminently sensible sentence.

    “Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?”

    This idea applies to most places.

    • Agree: AP, YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    What about the two Koreas ? There's a limit to nature and a room for nurture.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    “Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?”

    You could also say that given the country was Iraq, Saddam or someone like him may have been the best ruler. Certainly applies in spades to Gaddaffi, who was IMHO a great ruler of Libya.

    And IMHO also applies to Putin. Given the oligarch dominance in 1990s Russia, it's a miracle he survived, and it was only because the oligarchs thought he was their man. Those years when he was slowly and cautiously wresting power from them, boiling the oligarch frog... my impression is that he still isn't in total control but has a modus vivendi with the surviving oligarchs. The war may have strengthened his position has a fair few ran off to Israel.


    "Putin inherited a ransacked and bewildered country, with a poor and demoralized people," Solzhenitsyn told the German magazine Der Spiegel in a 2007 interview, when Putin was still president. "And he started to do what was possible, a slow and gradual restoration. These efforts were not noticed, nor appreciated, immediately. In any case, one is hard-pressed to find examples in history when steps by one country to restore its strength were met favorably by other governments."
     
  63. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya


    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land.
     
    Yes, I know this. But in USA you can meet names which clearly refer to the Bible, but mostly to its non-Jewish names like Moab or Canaan. Well, I just checked and there is quite a couple of Sodoms in USA too!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom

    Don't tell me that calling your place Sodom isn't Yahwe-trolling...!

    In this context, naming something "Palestine" and not "Judea" seems like a conscious choice.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    Don’t tell me that calling your place Sodom isn’t Yahwe-trolling.

    They better not be trolling me.

    I’ll blow their damn airport up!

    And put a curse upon their souls.

    And it will not be lifted till they have repented to their Lord!

    Behold.

  64. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Did you ever read/hear the Tracy Twyman bit where she and husband put a curse on Boyd Rice and six weeks later husband was dead?

    I think I would have gone straight into a nun enclave but she kept on at it for a few more years. Aye ^ 7.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Twyman and her husband were investigating a lot of creepy stuff. They both were spiritual tourists that ended in some dark and deadly places. The stuff Charlie Manson was blabbering about Boyd and Mike applies even more to Tracy and Brian. And I don’t think that Hareth Bustani was an Arab but I wouldn’t write more about it.

  65. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thomas Friedman writes 99% garbage. But he did write one eminently sensible sentence.

    "Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?"

    This idea applies to most places.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @YetAnotherAnon

    What about the two Koreas ? There’s a limit to nature and a room for nurture.

  66. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya


    Palestine is a common name to refer to the area also known as the Holy Land.
     
    Yes, I know this. But in USA you can meet names which clearly refer to the Bible, but mostly to its non-Jewish names like Moab or Canaan. Well, I just checked and there is quite a couple of Sodoms in USA too!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom

    Don't tell me that calling your place Sodom isn't Yahwe-trolling...!

    In this context, naming something "Palestine" and not "Judea" seems like a conscious choice.

    Replies: @Yahya, @A123

    You can literally “Go to Hell” in Norway. There is an auto race there every year.

    https://hellrx.com/?lang=en

    HELL RX

    This year’s toughest motorsports experience! World RX of Norway in Hell (Lånkebanen)! – just 30 minutes from downtown Trondheim! See the world elites in rallycross give everything!

    PEACE 😇

  67. @Yahya
    @songbird


    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

     

    Maddow isn't even 1/8th Middle Eastern; you twit.

    ScarJo looks Germanic/Nordic.

    Jennifer Connelly looks Black Irish or Italian.

    Would pass as Middle Eastern if a few facial features were tweaked though.

    Wouldn't mind accepting her to the fold. She was born in Cairo after all.

    Is also beautiful and intelligent.

    You can keep the other two.


    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture,
     
    I don't recall commenting on that. Though I'm open to being wrong. You are welcome to provide a link to my comment.

    Blacks do have a culture; both in Africa and America. The former is primitive and the latter depraved; but they are distinct cultures nonetheless. You are conflating "bad" with "nothing".


    but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that.

     

    There are pockets of creditable high-culture in Europe. Most of it is indeed "coasting" on previous accomplishments; but that is both a sin and a virtue. It can be good to preserve the achievements of one's ancestors; whether in literature, music, film, art or architecture. I don't see the issue with performing Bach or Mozart in a French cathedral every weekend. Many non-European peoples also tend to replay the same music from their golden ages. The Ancient Egyptians maintained the same aesthetic for thousands of years. On the other hand, innovation and creativity are also worthy endeavors. Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing. Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans; likewise Alexandria was for a millennia the most culturally productive city in the Western world. The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    I don't think anyone has a finger on the causes of Western cultural decline. Some posit a general downward trend starting in WW1; though I view the timeline as variable depending on cultural activity. Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century. James Huneker in Old Fogy contended that "no great music [has been] made since the death of Beethoven". That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    @Latw


    Irish German maybe?
     
    Anglin doesn't need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Apparently Irish-Americans now think themselves Aryan ubermenschen.

    The deracination must've gotten to some of them. Very sad really.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Coconuts

    Maddow isn’t even 1/8th Middle Eastern

    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    [MORE]

    The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    Just how cosmopolitan was it, separated by the Himalayas, the Gobi, and the Pacific, and with the closer and more habitable places subjected to wave, after wave of Han colonization, from extremely fertile river valley bases, which had no close parallels in that geographic sphere? What would be the percentage of non-Han within core Han areas, not counting colonial expansions which brought them in contact with China’s current minorities? (quite a many of them fairly Han-looking) More than 1%? 2%? There were <20,000 foreigners in China at the time of the Boxer Rebellion (including Japanese), and that was with steamships and rail.

    Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans

    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth. The Aeneid (not a novel) is quite good with caveats, but it is based on much older myths (How old is the first vase with Aeneas carrying his father on his shoulders?), and so it shouldn’t be considered a purely imperial product.

    There really isn’t any close historical analogue to the modern West that was a success story. Certainly not with the same percentages. (Though it hasn’t stopped a lot of revisionists from trying)

    Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century.

    I would say this is fairly self-evident. Musical tradition will be strongest when there are (1.) noble patrons, and (2.) the highest percentage of live performers. Phonograph was invented in about 1877, and first radio broadcast of music, in my very own neck of the woods, was in 1906.

    Anglin doesn’t need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you? I guess you’ve won me over, and I’ll now choose sides in the Palestinian conflict, with the future expectation, without the slightest doubt in my mind, that the Palestinians and the Arabs who say they support them are honorable people and that my support will be reciprocal.

    Keep winning friends and influencing people! You are a fine ambassador for Arabs everywhere!

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you?
     
    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie 'Whites') playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not 'persons of color' instead.

    Tholian Fiend, who probably is actually a sub-continental like many think rather than an actual Scandinavian, and Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs. They've sold their fellow man, their own people, and ultimately their own individual selves out as well, and effectively work for a corrupt and truly genocidal global establishment.

    It was for site trolls like these that they invented the 'ignore commentator' button for.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    , @Yahya
    @songbird


    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

     

    Irrelevant. You said "Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern" as if to imply she's not really a Western women; which is mind-bogglingly stupid. Almost like saying African-Americans aren't black because they have "substantial" European ancestry.

    What would be the percentage of non-Han
     
    25-50%

    In light of this appreciation for cultural diversity, the Tang Dynasty saw the influx of thousands of foreigners who came to live in Chinese commercial hub cities such as Canton and Chang’an. Expatriates spilled in from all over Asia and beyond, with a bounty of people from Persia, Arabia, India, Korea, and Southeast and Central Asia. Chinese cities became bustling epicenters of commerce and trade, abundant in foreign residents and the plethora of cultural riches that they brought with them. Southern port cities such as Canton and Fuzhou swelled with foreigners as trade expanded in Southeast Asia and along the Chinese coast. A census taken in 742 CE showed that the foreign proportion of the registered population had massively increased from nearly a quarter in the early seventh century to nearly half by the mid seventh century, with an estimated 200,000 foreigners in residence in Canton alone.

    https://www.thecollector.com/tang-dynasty-golden-age-china/

     

    This is a piece of artwork from the Tang era:

    https://cdn.thecollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/li-zhaodao-emperor-xuanzong-tang-fleeing-11th-century.jpg?width=1400&quality=55

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West. You make the mistake of assuming diversity only exits in the modern West ("muh unparalleled invasion"). Once again, the presence of diversity is no impediment to cultural flourishing. You still haven't refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc. It doesn't mean all forms of migration is good; or that diversity is a necessary condition for cultural flourishing. But you are wrong to assume that diversity is an impediment to cultural flourishing. You are too ideologically racist anyway to accept this fact; there's no use in arguing with you.


    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth.
     
    That Roman culture hasn't survived doesn't have any bearing on its worthiness or sophistication. Every culture dies eventually. Are you going to tell me classical music isn't all that because it's become an almost extinct art form? Or that Ancient Egypt was small potatoes because it's culture "only" lasted 3,000 years?

    The Romans weren't as intellectually productive as the Greeks, not because of diversity; but because their deeply-rooted aversion to lexus (self-indulgence) and inertia (idleness). The Roman code, established during the Republic, demanded that Roman gentleman embody vigor and industriousness; which is antithical to the leisurely disposition needed to acquire knowledge. The Romans directed their intellectual efforts to administration and war-making; whereas Greeks put more attachment to scholarly and intellectual pursuits. Again, these are matters of cultural differences, not ethnic compositions.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people's imaginations long after it collapsed. Your founding fathers otherwise would not have modelled their constitution and public buildings on Roman laws and architecture.


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people.

     

    I call you a Nazi because of your bizarre obsession with Germany. TL wasn't even specifically talking about Germany when she stated that cultured and intelligent Iranians were desirable immigrants. But of course, you just had to shift the topic to Germany. Lol.

    Germans aren't your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American. You presuming to dictate which group of people in Germany should be deported; is like me telling Iranians they should deport the x and y group. I have never and would never presume to tell Iranians they should deport the Afghan refugees in their country; or go around calling them parasites and invaders. That would just be gawky and obnoxious; it's none of my business.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

  68. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.
     
    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president. After the coup and the massacre Bor'ka alkash rewrote the constitution. Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm. The first post-Soviet constitution was sensible and balanced. These apes used it as toilet paper. The parliament was a real legislative body, they made it a rubber stamp machine.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.
     
    There was some talking about CCCP 2.0 but I think none really believed it. And the Supreme Soviet was as nationalistic as it was leftist (see the Stanislav Govorukhin being denounced below by a commie). For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy. The parliament was Red-Brown. The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime. It was to be done before anything else. When the conflict ended in Parliament's defeat, the corrupt nomenklatura and the organized crime, who fought together against the Red Browns, morphed into the nascent oligarchy.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns.
     
    The Red Browns wanted to find and clame back the "gold of the Communist Parry" that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid. They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    there was a default?
     
    It was in 1998 when the scoundrels in charge stole the Western financial aid and refused to pay back the loans.

    the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.
     
    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    https://youtu.be/Cs5wez1JQ4A

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S, @LatW

    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR…then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    Yep.

    The Fall of Capitalism, ie the impending economic and political collapse of the United States and it’s Western bloc, won’t be a natural process at all either.

    This event, too, will have a subsequent looting of the remnants of the Capitalist economic system by those who are behind this manufactured and broadly controlled (crimethink, I know) Capitalist vs Communist dialectic, the worker being ‘worthy of his wages’ they tell themselves.

    As you allude, it’s been an orchestrated top/down (rather than bottom/up) affair since the time of this man-made dialectic’s birth in the proto-Capitalist American and proto-Communist French revolutions of 1776 and 1789 respectively.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @S

    Yes. Exactly. And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It's Westerstroika time.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂

    Replies: @S

  69. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?

    Replies: @songbird

    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.

    It strikes me as more than a little borderline, when I blockquote you twice, and you (not replying to my actual reply to you) say that my reply doesn’t address anything you said.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?

    To whom? You?

    What if I told you I was wearing a green sweater, and asking for billions of dollars, exactly like Ze? What if I said that I had the same lisp and haircut as Trudeau? Or that I took photos with shirtless Africans like Macron?

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your reply didn't address what I said. That's plain.

    However I am sorry for not replying to your reply. I made a misclick and replied to the wrong comment.

    Nonetheless, uou don't strike me as masculine at all. In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.

    Replies: @songbird

  70. Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side.
     
    What do you base this prediction on? I've been following different sources to get clues about the announced Russian winter offensive but there seems to be a general assessment that Russia has not amassed enough forces to do much more than what's it already doing with its multiple pushes in different parts of the front. Russia (or Belarus) cannot hide from the satellites the big contingents they would need to change the situation dramatically. Today Michael Hofman did retweet some satellite images of a new field camp detected near Voronezh though.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Ivashka the fool


    I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side
     
    They have already intervened: Russian troops keep collecting Polish KIA in areas they advance to. But Poland did not intervene on Ukrainian side, it intervened on Polish side: Polish government salivates after Western Ukraine that Stalin took from Poland in 1939. I doubt that Putin would let Poles take a piece of the pie, or even crumbs of that pie, though.
    , @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.
     
    I've posted before how I believe the self proclaimed 'progressives', due to their adoption of the ends justifies the means, have long been 'projecting' what is in reality true of themselves upon others.

    During the height of the Cold War between American Capitalism and Soviet Communism in 1968, one of the most progressive Multi-Cultural US TV shows there is. StarTrek, broadcast an episode entitled 'Day of the Dove'.

    The episode seems to be a case of almost pure projection.

    It tells the story of an 'alien entity' which has manipulated a war into being between two equally armed forces, neither side of which is actually intended to ever win. The entity feeds off the hatred generated by the never ending unwinnable war.

    To defeat it, the combatants must stand down, perhaps to fight again another day, but only on their own terms.


    'Two forces..., each of them equally armed. Has a war been staged for us, complete with weapons and ideology and patriotic drum beating?'

    https://youtu.be/c-x2a-GjJls


    'And it goes on, the good old game of war, pawn against pawn! Stopping the bad guys. While somewhere, something sits back and laughs and starts it all over again.'

    https://youtu.be/AoMD_qKpCNM


    Script for the very insightful Day of the Dove (Nov 1, 1968)


    http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/66.htm
    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.
     
    Are you writing this in full seriousness or as a kind of an "innocent" prompt that "a Fool" would bring up?

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed. So far it seems, it won't be. It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  71. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR...then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.
     
    Yep.

    The Fall of Capitalism, ie the impending economic and political collapse of the United States and it's Western bloc, won't be a natural process at all either.

    This event, too, will have a subsequent looting of the remnants of the Capitalist economic system by those who are behind this manufactured and broadly controlled (crimethink, I know) Capitalist vs Communist dialectic, the worker being 'worthy of his wages' they tell themselves.

    As you allude, it's been an orchestrated top/down (rather than bottom/up) affair since the time of this man-made dialectic's birth in the proto-Capitalist American and proto-Communist French revolutions of 1776 and 1789 respectively.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yes. Exactly. And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It’s Westerstroika time.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂

    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It’s Westerstroika time.
     
    Sounds about right.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂
     
    Hopefully, when the Fall of Capitalism takes place, you and yours will not be like those Japanese who got hit at Hiroshima by the atomic bomb, and survived it, went to Nagasaki for 'safety', only to get hit again. [Some gallows humor there! :-D ]

    Replies: @Beckow

  72. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    There was a time when I was deep into this Eastern Wisdom too. But then I realized, if it is so simple -


    a jewel that was, all along, embedded in ones forehead
     
    - why it is so hard...? Can truth have only accidental realizations in this world, through the enlightened? Why should actually the way to the truth be so hard and for the chosen - shouldn't truth be shining like the Sun upon everyone?
    There must be a catch here.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Anon 2

    It isn’t as hard as many people think. I recommend “A Course in Miracles” (1976)
    and its sequel “A Course of Love” (2001). They basically say that we are gods and
    goddesses in training. We live in a slow universe for our own protection.
    We do create our own reality but very slowly. If our wishes became manifest
    faster, we’d destroy ourselves due to all the negativity present in our conscious
    and unconscious minds. So first we need to purify ourselves. Once you purify
    yourself, you’ll be amazed how quickly your wishes become manifested.
    It’s an empirically observable fact.

    Fortunately, Poland and Czechia are Late Mature- Early Old Soul countries,
    meaning that they’ve become very purified already. Hence the “Holy Poland”
    meme. Poland has one of the lowest levels of social dysfunction in the
    world, e.g., extremely low levels of murder, rape, and abortion.
    Unfortunately, the United States is a Late Young Soul country and Western
    Europe is Early Mature Soul level, so both are fairly primitive compared
    to Poland or Czechia. There are much more sophisticated models of
    the Evolution of Consciousness in existence, e.g., by Ken Wilber, America’s
    most translated philosopher, or by Michael Washburn whose approach
    employs the tools of Analytic Psychology. However, the Infant-Baby-Young-
    Mature-Old Soul level sequence is the easiest to present in a blog like this
    one. The Michael teachings are a good reference. I presented a very detailed
    version of this model on this blog 3-4 years ago.

    If you’re interested in psychedelics, then I recommend the writings of
    Thaddeus Golas, evolutionary thinker famous for his mega bestseller
    “The Lazy Man’s Guide to Enlightenment.” Golas was in fact a Polish-
    American thinker, with a degree from Columbia University. He witnessed
    it all, Greenwich Village in the 1950s and San Francisco in the 1960s-‘70s.
    A fascinating man. The U.S. is very uncomfortable for the Polish – we tend
    to be Late Mature-Early Old souls whereas Americans, being Young Souls,
    genuflect before the Unholy Trinity of Wealth, Power, and Fame. As a result
    we have very little in common.

  73. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yahya

    Almost no issue irrelevant to culture war has been more culture warred than Israel-Palestine in Britain. The most SJW town council would fly only the rainbow and the Palestinian flags for decades before they would fly the English flag. And you're not a political tranny if you don't have a keffiyeh to wear over your lace bra. Meanwhile, Israel flags will get flown alongside Ulster flags and are dear to small c conservatism.

    Obviously there are Jewish ultra-progressives who hate this, and anti-Semitic true conservatives, but they're pissing into the wind. The conflict has become emblematic of two personality types. And these correlate with the bulk of what the different sides of the culture war prefer. Support will therefore inevitably circle around 50/50.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Teh decisive battle on Jews was fought over in the Labour Party, not the Tory Party which was partly founded by Benjamin Disraeli anyway. And I’m not talking about the Jeremy Corbyn battles.

    Instead you’d have to go back to the cabinet formed by Ramsay MacDonald. In this cabinet it was possible to have envisaged the small time chiseling of Arthur Greenwood as chancellor shooting down motorway building, house building car buying frenzy envisioned by, of all people, Oswald Mosley.

    Apparently the following racial outbursts happened in the cabinet concerning a Keynsian Credit Boom…before ww2. “Niggers on exported Bicycles” was Chancellor Greenwood’s big idea. Remind you of Boris or Sunak?

    that is the Treasury’s Official Position, then as now.

  74. @Ivashka the fool
    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @S, @LatW

    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side.

    What do you base this prediction on? I’ve been following different sources to get clues about the announced Russian winter offensive but there seems to be a general assessment that Russia has not amassed enough forces to do much more than what’s it already doing with its multiple pushes in different parts of the front. Russia (or Belarus) cannot hide from the satellites the big contingents they would need to change the situation dramatically. Today Michael Hofman did retweet some satellite images of a new field camp detected near Voronezh though.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    I was reading a couple Russian Telegram channels that write about these new camps and also about Lukashenko telling that the time is approaching when Belarus will have to take a side in this conflict, that the decision must be made shortly.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

  75. The decisive battle on Jews was fought over in the Labour Party, not the Tory Party which was partly founded by Benjamin Disraeli anyway. And I’m not talking about the Jeremy Corbyn battles.

    Instead you’d have to go back to the cabinet formed by Ramsay MacDonald. In this cabinet it is possible to see the small time chiseling of Arthur Greenwood as chancellor shooting down a domestic motorway building, house building car buying frenzy beautifully proposed by, of all people, Oswald Mosley.

    Apparently the following racial outbursts happened in the cabinet concerning a domestic Keynsian Credit Boom…before ww2. “N*ggers on exported Bicycles” was Chancellor Greenwood’s big counter idea. Remind you of Boris or Sunak? it’s a 9 minute clip.

    that is the Treasury’s Official Position, then as now.

  76. aside from the latent antisemitism, this is an excellent analysis of the current state of the war and the likely trajectory of things going forward: https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/we-are-entering-the-final-phase-of

    tl;dr: Russia is given the remainder of the Donbas in exchange for giving up the Crimea landbridge. Ukraine publicly commits to not seek NATO or EU membership.

  77. @songbird
    @Yahya


    Maddow isn’t even 1/8th Middle Eastern
     
    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.
     
    Just how cosmopolitan was it, separated by the Himalayas, the Gobi, and the Pacific, and with the closer and more habitable places subjected to wave, after wave of Han colonization, from extremely fertile river valley bases, which had no close parallels in that geographic sphere? What would be the percentage of non-Han within core Han areas, not counting colonial expansions which brought them in contact with China's current minorities? (quite a many of them fairly Han-looking) More than 1%? 2%? There were <20,000 foreigners in China at the time of the Boxer Rebellion (including Japanese), and that was with steamships and rail.

    Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans
     
    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth. The Aeneid (not a novel) is quite good with caveats, but it is based on much older myths (How old is the first vase with Aeneas carrying his father on his shoulders?), and so it shouldn't be considered a purely imperial product.

    There really isn't any close historical analogue to the modern West that was a success story. Certainly not with the same percentages. (Though it hasn't stopped a lot of revisionists from trying)

    Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century.
     
    I would say this is fairly self-evident. Musical tradition will be strongest when there are (1.) noble patrons, and (2.) the highest percentage of live performers. Phonograph was invented in about 1877, and first radio broadcast of music, in my very own neck of the woods, was in 1906.

    Anglin doesn’t need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.
     
    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don't support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you? I guess you've won me over, and I'll now choose sides in the Palestinian conflict, with the future expectation, without the slightest doubt in my mind, that the Palestinians and the Arabs who say they support them are honorable people and that my support will be reciprocal.

    Keep winning friends and influencing people! You are a fine ambassador for Arabs everywhere!

    Replies: @S, @Yahya

    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you?

    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie ‘Whites’) playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not ‘persons of color’ instead.

    Tholian Fiend, who probably is actually a sub-continental like many think rather than an actual Scandinavian, and Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs. They’ve sold their fellow man, their own people, and ultimately their own individual selves out as well, and effectively work for a corrupt and truly genocidal global establishment.

    It was for site trolls like these that they invented the ‘ignore commentator’ button for.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @S


    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie ‘Whites’) playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not ‘persons of color’ instead.
     
    I don't recall this specifically, but I have often found Thulean to be a good sport. He likes to troll a bit occasionally, but who could blame him for that?

    Yahoo, or, Yahya
     
    Haha. That makes me remember Kanye, which is doubly funny considering the context.

    Replies: @S

    , @Yahya
    @S


    Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs.
     
    Your "insults" are even lamer and more timid than songbird. I wish silviosilver would come back so I can have a proper sparring partner. You are too much of a wimp to even address your insult directly to my person. Just typically feminine passive-aggressiveness.

    Since you've taken to declaring all migrants, including most recently Slavic untermensch, as grifters, parasites etc. I wonder if you could enlighten us with your own non-migrant, indigenous background. You've been curiously circumspect about your ancestry. But please do tell us about your ancient American indigenous lineage, and how none of your ancestors migrated from one place to another to improve their standard of living. And that they've never participated in the genocidal erasure of a certain other group's culture during their conquest of the New World.

    Replies: @Max Payne

  78. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side.
     
    What do you base this prediction on? I've been following different sources to get clues about the announced Russian winter offensive but there seems to be a general assessment that Russia has not amassed enough forces to do much more than what's it already doing with its multiple pushes in different parts of the front. Russia (or Belarus) cannot hide from the satellites the big contingents they would need to change the situation dramatically. Today Michael Hofman did retweet some satellite images of a new field camp detected near Voronezh though.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I was reading a couple Russian Telegram channels that write about these new camps and also about Lukashenko telling that the time is approaching when Belarus will have to take a side in this conflict, that the decision must be made shortly.

    • Thanks: Mikel
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Belarus doesn't have a combat effective military. Otherwise Lukashenko might well declare genuine independence. Or the military would probably do it for him.

    You can disagree with parts 2 and 3 or the above statement and be reasonable, but not part 1, and this means Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way, or probably any way at all. He's even gutted what there was of his military to make scrap for the Russians to use.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool

    Just an intuitive guess with no required evidence about troop movements specifics - imho, all those lukashenkian dances with military drums, at the same time adding weasealisms like "it must be done without harming our sovereign interests", more likely are meant to keep suspense increasing and therefore notable UA reserves at the north too, while not letting transfer them into east/south where the main RF action may come, but without any RB involvement.

    But we''ll se soon as spring is just two weeks away...

    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @sudden death

  79. @Ivashka the fool
    @S

    Yes. Exactly. And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It's Westerstroika time.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂

    Replies: @S

    And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It’s Westerstroika time.

    Sounds about right.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂

    Hopefully, when the Fall of Capitalism takes place, you and yours will not be like those Japanese who got hit at Hiroshima by the atomic bomb, and survived it, went to Nagasaki for ‘safety’, only to get hit again. [Some gallows humor there! 😀 ]

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @S


    ...but the Western middle class as well.
     
    I generally defend the middle class everywhere, but let's be honest: large part of the Western middle class is simply parasitic. They consume way beyond anything productive they do. I don't want to list the endless silly made-up activities that provide their living, from distributing gment goodies and virtual money, endless 'charity', green activism, protecting against "Russia", social media, etc...all of that is possible only because the material basis (land, food, infrastructure, energy...) has been either built up or is often obtained at minimum cost from the rest of the world (that virtual money machine :)...

    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the 'middle class' nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place - fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have - they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go...

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

  80. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Your reply has nothing to do with my comment, so I give up.
     
    It strikes me as more than a little borderline, when I blockquote you twice, and you (not replying to my actual reply to you) say that my reply doesn't address anything you said.

    But, just one more thing, you think you come across as masculine?
     
    To whom? You?

    What if I told you I was wearing a green sweater, and asking for billions of dollars, exactly like Ze? What if I said that I had the same lisp and haircut as Trudeau? Or that I took photos with shirtless Africans like Macron?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Your reply didn’t address what I said. That’s plain.

    However I am sorry for not replying to your reply. I made a misclick and replied to the wrong comment.

    Nonetheless, uou don’t strike me as masculine at all. In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

     

    Operate? Shades of Grey? Devalue? Trigger? Assign?

    Wouldn't guess that any of this was the terminology employed by the Gaelic warrior class, who fought countless battles, and recited poems about swords and scabbards, and knew their ancestors by heart. Are you sure that you haven't attempted to reshape the definition of the masculine, so that it would be unrecognizable to anyone in the past? Whether warrior, fisherman, or farmer? Maybe, with the desire to invent some new age man?

    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety? Or women are too Manichean? Surely, what is not yang is yin? Or maybe you are overthinking things, if that is not how you are ordering your categories.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.
     
    I prefer introspection.

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people's heart's and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege. And the people who get on the couch the most don't seem a healthy lot either. I think they would be better off praying and going to religious services.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  81. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    I was reading a couple Russian Telegram channels that write about these new camps and also about Lukashenko telling that the time is approaching when Belarus will have to take a side in this conflict, that the decision must be made shortly.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

    Belarus doesn’t have a combat effective military. Otherwise Lukashenko might well declare genuine independence. Or the military would probably do it for him.

    You can disagree with parts 2 and 3 or the above statement and be reasonable, but not part 1, and this means Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way, or probably any way at all. He’s even gutted what there was of his military to make scrap for the Russians to use.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way
     
    Would you bet on it ?

    😉

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  82. @Leaves No Shadow
    Chronology:

    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    US says Russia lying.

    Germany says Russia financially liable.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 really broken.

    Russia says Germany running out of gas and will freeze.

    Germany says Russia must open Nordstream 1 but won't use Nordstream 2.

    Russia refuses to open Nordstream 1, but wants to open Nordstream 2.

    Nordstream 1 gets blown up.

    Nordstream 2 still functioning.

    Russia says again, Nordstream 1 broken, so Germany must use Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    Putinists online declare NATO will collapse because US blew up pipeline Russia wanted and not pipeline US wanted because anonymous sources said so.

    Germany and US increase funding for Ukraine, send tanks together, cooperation and continue to refuse opening Nordstream 2.

    Russia still stuck outside Bakhmut, having mobilised, and using military that online Putinist declared would be in Paris in 2 weeks.

    China continues to accept Russian people subsidised oil in exchange for limiting aid to Ukraine, polite words to Russia, free coffee for Putin and not recognising Crimea as Russian.

    Online Putinist declared total Russian geopolitical victory.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @Gerard1234

    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

    NS2 can only be functional at half the capacity after the attack (which with it illegally prevented from launching by Pindostan German courts would have needed several months for required pressure to be able to do that), which, in a sane world , would have stopped you from writing this garbage at source.
    I see that American BS and “fake it till you make it” doctrine is like a religion

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

    For the last time you cretin – Germany doesn’t laugh and has “prepared” for months by:

    1.Using much less gas ( about 1/8th)
    2.Repeat…Consuming much less gas
    3.Buying Russian LNG throughout the SMO. Russian LNG exports to Europe are about 25% of America’s to Europe. Expect American and Russian LNG exports to increase even more to EU – but note for obese American retards that their LNG could never come close to replacing Russian pipeline gas
    4.Germany still buying Russian pipeline gas for most of 2022.
    5. It was always about AFTER winter of 2022/23

    Europe has basically had to waste 700 billion to 1 trillion USD in government bailouts to energy companies and subsidies to the public to pay for the high energy prices . Thats not practical money that defeats Russia – like by switching to different gas sources at premium price or building replacement infrastructure for different energy like NPP…Thats completely evaporated money . EU + Britain GDP is about 19-20 billion USD , so that is 3.5-5% of EU GDP eradicated in practical terms.. More importantly that is a much , much bigger percentage of government spending on schools, hospitals, social programs etc that are now thrown in a ditch. The EU-UK lemming populations should be rioting at this disgrace – but coronavirus seems to have given them the same practical effects as a lobotomy

    All because of trying to keep the parasitic 404 as a gas transit country – i.e have Russia fund the military of this freakshow . These “bailout” packages are over 2-3 years, Ukraine transit money was about 2 billion per year. So basically the “geniuses” or should that be cruel satanists of NATO have sacrificed maybe $1 trillion or 700 billion…….to force 1 country to pay another (fake) country $6 billion…….an amount NATO has since more than paid over to 404 anyway. You could not make up this freakshow!

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Gerard1234


    For the last time you cretin – Germany doesn’t laugh and has “prepared” for months by:

    1.Using much less gas ( about 1/8th)
    2.Repeat…Consuming much less gas
    3.Buying Russian LNG throughout the SMO. Russian LNG exports to Europe are about 25% of America’s to Europe. Expect American and Russian LNG exports to increase even more to EU – but note for obese American retards that their LNG could never come close to replacing Russian pipeline gas
    4.Germany still buying Russian pipeline gas for most of 2022.
    5. It was always about AFTER winter of 2022/23

     

    This is true. While I do believe that Russia dramatically overestimated the economic impact this war would have on the West, there is reason to believe that Europe will suffer long term economic problems from this conflict and that these problems will become worse with time. Remember that the economic impact of the lockdowns also didn't show up initially.

    Economics are the one way that time is on Russia's side. The US has approximately 90 more days before it enters a long and deep recession. When the US economy finally starts its extremely overdo meltdown, we'll see how well the Western economies hold up. My guess: not very well
  83. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Belarus doesn't have a combat effective military. Otherwise Lukashenko might well declare genuine independence. Or the military would probably do it for him.

    You can disagree with parts 2 and 3 or the above statement and be reasonable, but not part 1, and this means Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way, or probably any way at all. He's even gutted what there was of his military to make scrap for the Russians to use.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way

    Would you bet on it ?

    😉

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

    Replies: @Gerard1234, @Mikel

  84. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Lukashenko is not going to join any war in any significant way
     
    Would you bet on it ?

    😉

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

     

    The SMO represents a great chance for Belarus to have much, or at least the most rabid, of their white-red-white oppositionists destroyed. Maybe after as many of them as possible have drained out into 404 to be killed (as already have).....then Belarus will take a more active role. Anyway Belarus and even the normally idiotic Gruzia have had OK side-effects from SMO - for Banderastan and Moldova it has obviously been a disaster.

    What's the point in doing this stupid bet if you are not going estimate how many troops 404 has stationed that side if any Northern front reopening?

    , @Mikel
    @Leaves No Shadow


    How much are we betting?
     
    Interesting, to see you betting on military matters after your epic Taliban prediction.

    But I would be very surprised myself if Lukashenko sends Belarussian troops to Ukraine at this unfavorable stage. Putin may have most of the population behind him but Luka doesn't. That's why he finally had to align himself with the Kremlin in the first place. If even Putin is unwilling to take the mobilization measures that would allow him to put an end to the misadventure he started, will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AnonfromTN

  85. @S
    @songbird


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you?
     
    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie 'Whites') playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not 'persons of color' instead.

    Tholian Fiend, who probably is actually a sub-continental like many think rather than an actual Scandinavian, and Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs. They've sold their fellow man, their own people, and ultimately their own individual selves out as well, and effectively work for a corrupt and truly genocidal global establishment.

    It was for site trolls like these that they invented the 'ignore commentator' button for.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie ‘Whites’) playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not ‘persons of color’ instead.

    I don’t recall this specifically, but I have often found Thulean to be a good sport. He likes to troll a bit occasionally, but who could blame him for that?

    Yahoo, or, Yahya

    Haha. That makes me remember Kanye, which is doubly funny considering the context.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    He [Tholian Fiend] likes to troll a bit occasionally, but who could blame him for that?
     
    I can! :-D


    Yahoo, or, Yahya
     
    Haha. That makes me remember Kanye, which is doubly funny considering the context.
     
    Am glad you thought it funny. :-)

    You are more patient than I am with folks. More power to you!
  86. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

    Replies: @Gerard1234, @Mikel

    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

    The SMO represents a great chance for Belarus to have much, or at least the most rabid, of their white-red-white oppositionists destroyed. Maybe after as many of them as possible have drained out into 404 to be killed (as already have)…..then Belarus will take a more active role. Anyway Belarus and even the normally idiotic Gruzia have had OK side-effects from SMO – for Banderastan and Moldova it has obviously been a disaster.

    What’s the point in doing this stupid bet if you are not going estimate how many troops 404 has stationed that side if any Northern front reopening?

  87. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    Under the Russian system, the president is also stronger than the Duma, so may have been a factor.
     
    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president. After the coup and the massacre Bor'ka alkash rewrote the constitution. Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm. The first post-Soviet constitution was sensible and balanced. These apes used it as toilet paper. The parliament was a real legislative body, they made it a rubber stamp machine.

    Ok, as long as the Communist entering power were changed into a new form of Slavic Euro democrats or something of that sort, but I doubt they would be. They would regain power and, yes, they may try to stop the oligarchs from being formed, but they would also start all kinds of revanchist activities to re-establish and re-unite the Soviet Union, most likely.
     
    There was some talking about CCCP 2.0 but I think none really believed it. And the Supreme Soviet was as nationalistic as it was leftist (see the Stanislav Govorukhin being denounced below by a commie). For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy. The parliament was Red-Brown. The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime. It was to be done before anything else. When the conflict ended in Parliament's defeat, the corrupt nomenklatura and the organized crime, who fought together against the Red Browns, morphed into the nascent oligarchy.

    Also, they would lose Western funding. The West simply would not give money to Russian Red-Browns.
     
    The Red Browns wanted to find and clame back the "gold of the Communist Parry" that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid. They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    there was a default?
     
    It was in 1998 when the scoundrels in charge stole the Western financial aid and refused to pay back the loans.

    the Soviets had allowed the system to reach such a low bottom, but it was a factor.
     
    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    https://youtu.be/Cs5wez1JQ4A

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @S, @LatW

    It was the opposite before the Black October 1993. The Supreme Soviet had the legal prerogative to deposit the president.

    Maybe they should’ve taken a bit more time with drafting a new constitution, because from what I understand, Yeltsin wanted to draft a new one from scratch, while Hasbulatov wanted to keep the one from the USSR and just amend it a little. Maybe none of the previous constitutions reflected the situation that was created after the USSR. Was enough time taken to figure out whether there should be parliamentary or presidential form of government?

    As to the actual events of the month of October, they say that there was a Двоевластие at that moment which must be a very critical and difficult situation that probably cannot last for very long. I would say it could be characterized as borderline civil war.

    Of course, it is tragic and, that this was also October, is quite symbolic.

    Understand that those who defended Yeltsin, the normal people (not just some ultra-liberal journalists or whatever), they didn’t defend the oligarchy at the time, but as they phrased it “democracy” (the opposite of fascism and totalitarian communism in their mind).

    [MORE]

    Then Pynya changed it a couple times more to extend his staying at the helm.

    Yes, the nullifier.

    For once, the nationalist and the communist fractions got along and worked against the common neoliberal enemy.

    You know, in Latvia we, too, had something called the Civic Congress, it was ultra-nationalist but also from what I imagine would’ve been against neo-liberalism (had they been allowed to function longer). They did most of the work fighting for independence and did the most risky work, but then they were pushed aside and removed from gaining any power (removed by a kind of a coalition of mostly former Commies who changed colors as well as pro-Western nationalists and democrats and what later became liberals).

    But of course in Russia it was much more complex and more painful.

    The number one task was to stop the criminal privatization, upend the corruption and exterminate the organized crime.

    The liberalization and privatization where needed but not as drastically, this process had to be managed more carefully. Especially in Russia. One of the problems I see there though is the ability to manage the former state properties to make them lucrative.

    The Red Browns wanted to find and claim back the “gold of the Communist Parry” that has vanished in the international financial system. They also wanted to stop Russian gold from leaving the country and bring back the part that has been sent to the US. It would have more than compensated for the loss of Western financial aid.

    This is understandable, but it would have taken time.

    They wanted to stop the cheap selling of Russian technology and ressources.

    Correct, but again, the issue there would have been to take what resources were left over and create lucrative businesses out of them. I think this was the crucial moment that was missed and as a result a lot of national wealth was squandered. Just because it was hard to do, at the time it was easier to sell it to get the money quickly. So at this moment the most important thing is the mechanism and the people who are able to do this. Normal people didn’t yet have the skills to do it but they could’ve gained those skills with patience.

    The early 90ies economic crisis was prepared and engineered to hasten the collapse of the USSR. The nomenklatura has betrayed the Soviet people. And then they simply disbanded the Union, exported all they could sell, stole the finances and the golden reserves and privatized the economy. It was not a natural process at all.

    I can see your point (and your grievance, there is some foundation in it), however, something was seriously off already in the 1980s. Yea, things were better than during the collapse, but there were serious flaws that went beyond just the lack of private enterprise – why was there such deficit? There was a productivity problem. There were several decent size factories in the Baltic States, people worked a lot but the goods were shipped out. Urbanization was still going on, more goods were needed, some kind of a ramp of productivity was needed.

    Also, remember – oil prices collapsed right in the mid 80s when things were going the best.

    From Brookings.edu:

    “In 1973-74 the real price of crude oil more than tripled. After declining slightly in 1975-78, it doubled again in 1979-80. But the 1979-80 price increase was eroded between 1981 and 1985, as price declined by nearly 40 percent. Price then collapsed in the first half of 1986, falling by more than 50 percent.”

    Another factor – the arms race. It was too much, it sucked in too much effort and human capital, money.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid.

    At least you got to keep the car, that’s good.

    They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂

    That is so lame, and so low calorie. 🙁 So sorry to hear that, it makes me sad. I have a couple of really sad stories, too, but they are too private and too painful to share. It doesn’t have to do with food, though. Btw, you left early, hardship continued for a while.

  88. @songbird
    @S


    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie ‘Whites’) playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not ‘persons of color’ instead.
     
    I don't recall this specifically, but I have often found Thulean to be a good sport. He likes to troll a bit occasionally, but who could blame him for that?

    Yahoo, or, Yahya
     
    Haha. That makes me remember Kanye, which is doubly funny considering the context.

    Replies: @S

    He [Tholian Fiend] likes to troll a bit occasionally, but who could blame him for that?

    I can! 😀

    Yahoo, or, Yahya

    Haha. That makes me remember Kanye, which is doubly funny considering the context.

    Am glad you thought it funny. 🙂

    You are more patient than I am with folks. More power to you!

    • LOL: songbird
  89. @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    US says no use of Nordstream 2, but Nordstream 1 fine.

    Germany concurs and keeps Nordstream 2 closed but uses Nordstream 1.

    Russia says Nordstream 1 broken, and Germany must open Nordstream 2 or freeze.

     

    NS2 can only be functional at half the capacity after the attack (which with it illegally prevented from launching by Pindostan German courts would have needed several months for required pressure to be able to do that), which, in a sane world , would have stopped you from writing this garbage at source.
    I see that American BS and "fake it till you make it" doctrine is like a religion

    Germany laughs because Germany has prepared for many months for this and has plenty of gas.

     

    For the last time you cretin - Germany doesn't laugh and has "prepared" for months by:

    1.Using much less gas ( about 1/8th)
    2.Repeat...Consuming much less gas
    3.Buying Russian LNG throughout the SMO. Russian LNG exports to Europe are about 25% of America's to Europe. Expect American and Russian LNG exports to increase even more to EU - but note for obese American retards that their LNG could never come close to replacing Russian pipeline gas
    4.Germany still buying Russian pipeline gas for most of 2022.
    5. It was always about AFTER winter of 2022/23

    Europe has basically had to waste 700 billion to 1 trillion USD in government bailouts to energy companies and subsidies to the public to pay for the high energy prices . Thats not practical money that defeats Russia - like by switching to different gas sources at premium price or building replacement infrastructure for different energy like NPP...Thats completely evaporated money . EU + Britain GDP is about 19-20 billion USD , so that is 3.5-5% of EU GDP eradicated in practical terms.. More importantly that is a much , much bigger percentage of government spending on schools, hospitals, social programs etc that are now thrown in a ditch. The EU-UK lemming populations should be rioting at this disgrace - but coronavirus seems to have given them the same practical effects as a lobotomy


    All because of trying to keep the parasitic 404 as a gas transit country - i.e have Russia fund the military of this freakshow . These "bailout" packages are over 2-3 years, Ukraine transit money was about 2 billion per year. So basically the "geniuses" or should that be cruel satanists of NATO have sacrificed maybe $1 trillion or 700 billion.......to force 1 country to pay another (fake) country $6 billion.......an amount NATO has since more than paid over to 404 anyway. You could not make up this freakshow!
     

    Replies: @Greasy William

    For the last time you cretin – Germany doesn’t laugh and has “prepared” for months by:

    1.Using much less gas ( about 1/8th)
    2.Repeat…Consuming much less gas
    3.Buying Russian LNG throughout the SMO. Russian LNG exports to Europe are about 25% of America’s to Europe. Expect American and Russian LNG exports to increase even more to EU – but note for obese American retards that their LNG could never come close to replacing Russian pipeline gas
    4.Germany still buying Russian pipeline gas for most of 2022.
    5. It was always about AFTER winter of 2022/23

    This is true. While I do believe that Russia dramatically overestimated the economic impact this war would have on the West, there is reason to believe that Europe will suffer long term economic problems from this conflict and that these problems will become worse with time. Remember that the economic impact of the lockdowns also didn’t show up initially.

    Economics are the one way that time is on Russia’s side. The US has approximately 90 more days before it enters a long and deep recession. When the US economy finally starts its extremely overdo meltdown, we’ll see how well the Western economies hold up. My guess: not very well

  90. @Ivashka the fool
    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @S, @LatW

    I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side

    They have already intervened: Russian troops keep collecting Polish KIA in areas they advance to. But Poland did not intervene on Ukrainian side, it intervened on Polish side: Polish government salivates after Western Ukraine that Stalin took from Poland in 1939. I doubt that Putin would let Poles take a piece of the pie, or even crumbs of that pie, though.

  91. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, Belarus will, if they do join the war to help Russia, deploy no more than 48,000 soldiers to Ukraine in 2023.

    How much are we betting?

    Replies: @Gerard1234, @Mikel

    How much are we betting?

    Interesting, to see you betting on military matters after your epic Taliban prediction.

    But I would be very surprised myself if Lukashenko sends Belarussian troops to Ukraine at this unfavorable stage. Putin may have most of the population behind him but Luka doesn’t. That’s why he finally had to align himself with the Kremlin in the first place. If even Putin is unwilling to take the mobilization measures that would allow him to put an end to the misadventure he started, will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mikel

    Was right on near everything about Putin's invasion so far, but made a horrible and fatal calculation for Afghanistan: that anti-Taliban forces might actually try and fight. Everyone should have known that Afghans don't really fight, they either hide and set bombs/traps, or they instantly fold and switch to whichever they think is the stronger side, but this was extreme.

    That's not to characterise them as lacking courage, as their methods require immense courage sometimes, but it is so totally different from the European paradigm that even someone occasionally accused of racism could not imagine it.

    Well, lesson learned. But if I am guilty of extrapolating from Europeans to Afghans, most here are guilty of extrapolating from Afghans to Eastern Slavs.

    We live we learn. One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more
     
    Luka is wily, or, to be exact, he is best described by my grandma’s phrase in Ukrainian “дурний, та хитрий” (stupid, but cunning). For many years he tried to maneuver between the RF, China, and the EU to maximize goodies Belarus gets from all sides (Belarus cannot live as well as it does on its own resources). However, the West made a strategic mistake in Belarus: instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him. Luka is not a coward, like Ukrainian Yanuk, he did not surrender before the battle was lost, but fought back vigorously and prevailed. Net result: Western morons pushed him into Putin’s camp. Today Putin firmly holds his balls in his hand and can squeeze as hard as he needs. What’s more, now Luka has nothing to loose: Belarus is already under a bunch of idiotic Western sanctions. So, if Putin wants Belarus to join the RF in Ukraine, he is going to get his wish. Whether he wants it is another question.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

  92. @Ivashka the fool
    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @S, @LatW

    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    I’ve posted before how I believe the self proclaimed ‘progressives’, due to their adoption of the ends justifies the means, have long been ‘projecting’ what is in reality true of themselves upon others.

    During the height of the Cold War between American Capitalism and Soviet Communism in 1968, one of the most progressive Multi-Cultural US TV shows there is. StarTrek, broadcast an episode entitled ‘Day of the Dove’.

    The episode seems to be a case of almost pure projection.

    It tells the story of an ‘alien entity’ which has manipulated a war into being between two equally armed forces, neither side of which is actually intended to ever win. The entity feeds off the hatred generated by the never ending unwinnable war.

    To defeat it, the combatants must stand down, perhaps to fight again another day, but only on their own terms.

    ‘Two forces…, each of them equally armed. Has a war been staged for us, complete with weapons and ideology and patriotic drum beating?’

    ‘And it goes on, the good old game of war, pawn against pawn! Stopping the bad guys. While somewhere, something sits back and laughs and starts it all over again.’

    Script for the very insightful Day of the Dove (Nov 1, 1968)

    http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/66.htm

  93. @Ivashka the fool
    Looks like Russian troops will move forward soon and that Belarus will join the war on the Russian side. I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    Replies: @Mikel, @AnonfromTN, @S, @LatW

    I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.

    Are you writing this in full seriousness or as a kind of an “innocent” prompt that “a Fool” would bring up?

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed. So far it seems, it won’t be. It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    innocent” prompt that “a Fool” would bring up
     
    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : "when you don't think a lot becomes clearer". 😉

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed.
     
    Yeah, I know. That's the plan.

    It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.
     
    Taras, Gritsko and Mykola do not come in unlimited supply. Sooner rather than later, a war of attrition would lead to its logical consequences - the need for the Western backers to either fold or intervene.

    Being the simple-minded fool that I am, I believe Westerners would prefer seeing the Eastern Europeans "do the job for them", just like you would prefer it being done by "Mykola". Any Eastern European killed is one less to neuter or euthanize during the coming population bottleneck.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem - FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix, given that they seem eager to participate. Let's make it FSBSP for inclusivity's sake. 🙂

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack

  94. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your reply didn't address what I said. That's plain.

    However I am sorry for not replying to your reply. I made a misclick and replied to the wrong comment.

    Nonetheless, uou don't strike me as masculine at all. In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.

    Replies: @songbird

    In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

    Operate? Shades of Grey? Devalue? Trigger? Assign?

    Wouldn’t guess that any of this was the terminology employed by the Gaelic warrior class, who fought countless battles, and recited poems about swords and scabbards, and knew their ancestors by heart. Are you sure that you haven’t attempted to reshape the definition of the masculine, so that it would be unrecognizable to anyone in the past? Whether warrior, fisherman, or farmer? Maybe, with the desire to invent some new age man?

    [MORE]

    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety? Or women are too Manichean? Surely, what is not yang is yin? Or maybe you are overthinking things, if that is not how you are ordering your categories.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.

    I prefer introspection.

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people’s heart’s and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege. And the people who get on the couch the most don’t seem a healthy lot either. I think they would be better off praying and going to religious services.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety?
     
    By associating "masculinity" with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.

    I prefer introspection.
     
    You do?

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people’s heart’s and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege.
     
    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.

    Replies: @songbird

  95. @AP
    @ Beckow from previous Open Thread

    Ukraine shrunken to its purer Ukie population, getting rid by any means of the remaining Russians or Russian-speakers, and a full embrace of the West with focus on Poland. It doesn’t have much of a chance to be implemented, but as a goal it meets the basic rationality.
     
    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has. No further shrinking is necessary.

    It would be – based on how the war goes – a mono-ethnic 10-20 million country
     
    If 2/3 of the refugees outside of Ukraine return to Ukraine, the current territory would have around 30 million people. A stalemate at the current lines (give or take Bakhmut and some other settlements) is the most likely result. Though Ukraine taking back more territory towards the Crimean corridor and rural Luhansk is not unlikely. (I doubt that Ukraine will be able to storm large cities like Donetsk)

    If Ukraine loses more territories in the East such as Zaporizhia city or Kharkiv (unlikely) it will be a few million less than that.

    If Ukraine loses Eastern territories plus Odessa (very unlikely) it will be down to 20 million or so.

    The worst case and extremely unlikely scenario would be Russia taking Kiev and all the pre-1939 Soviet territory. This would leave Ukraine with around 12-15 million people, depending on how many refugees settle there from the other side of the Iron Curtain. This territory would be about 140,000 sq. kilometers in size (the map below, plus Transarpathia with Uzhorod and Bukovyna with Chernivtsi) and would thus be slightly larger than Hungary + Slovakia with a similar population of those two countries combined.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Soviet_annexation_of_Eastern_Galicia_and_Volhynia_during_WWII.svg/1280px-Soviet_annexation_of_Eastern_Galicia_and_Volhynia_during_WWII.svg.png


    It would be poor, but picturesque. Young people would be leaving, ‘tourists’ would visit for the bars and security conferences.
     
    Nonsense. Lviv is a beautiful city that attracts young settlers. And it offers plenty of well paid programming jobs. The city's population has already increased by 150,000 as a result of this war. Entire companies with their young employees have moved to Lviv from places like Kharkiv. If Kiev were lost, many of the young from that city would move to Free Lviv rather than leave Ukraine entirely, and with peace many would return from where they have been refugees in places like Poland. It would most likely be a million plus city (before the war it had a population of about 750,000).

    It would resemble Bulgaria-Romania-Moldova, its best parts would be like eastern Poland or even eastern Slovakia (both quite poor).
     
    Eastern Poland (which doesn't have any large cities like Lviv) has a per capita GRP of around ~$11,000 which is a lot higher than Belarus's $8,567. Within western Ukraine, rural Volhynia and Zakarpattiya would probably be similar to that, while Galicia (Lviv) would be significantly higher.

    Romania has a per capita GDP that is slightly higher than Russia's. And that is with its large gypsy population included.

    Bulgaria is a lot richer than Belarus, and that is with its large gypsy population.

    Moldova is a small, isolated country, it is a stupid comparison.


    Well, go for it. But then why are Ukies dying in large numbers to keep half of Donbas? Why did they start bombing civilian cities and killed (3k?) people to keep them in Ukraine?
     
    Because if the Russians take Donbas they will try to take more. Russians will try to take what they can until they are stopped. Better to stop them in Donbas than to allow the Russians to turn Dnipro, or Kharkiv, etc. into wastelands.

    Why are men up to 50-60 years old being hunted all over Ukraine so they can be put in the eastern trenches? Why?
     
    Videos are fun but meanwhile none of my 50 year old male relatives has been conscripted.

    You have no answer to that because you refuse to accept the crucial, decisive element of the situation: Nato (Washington) is not interested in what happens in Galicia+ (even in Kiev), whether they have call centers
     
    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers. Median salary for programmer in Lviv was $3,000 per month in 2021:

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/lviv-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,4_IC3537517_KO5,22.htm


    who sells them trinkets
     
    The largest cable manufacturers for German cars is in Lviv oblast. Those are not "trinkets."

    Their goal is much simpler: an armed Ukraine in Nato without Russians with eventually bases, missiles as usually. That’s what they want
     
    That's what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia's murdering.

    But NATRO was and will be a remote possibility. Though the possibility has increased since the Russian invasion.


    Nato is a military pact, it has attacked around 5-6 countries in the last 20-25 years
     
    Which one of those countries that NATO attacked has nuclear weapons?

    NATO has kept Russia out of countries, though.


    (incl. Serbia very brutally in the middle of Europe).
     
    1,2000-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estmates.

    A small fraction of the amount of civilians killed by Russia in Chechnya or Ukraine. Places that didn't have NATO protection.


    If Nato had not moved aggressively to absorb Ukraine there would be no war.
     
    Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. There is no war over Finland joining NATO. Finland hasn't joined NATO yet, so there is no NATO protective shield. And Finland is much closer to getting in than Ukraine ever was. Yet Russia isn't moving against Finland. So clearly the problem is not a nation close to Russia joining NATO.

    The problem is Ukraine leaving the Russian World forever. Ukraine is strategically important for Moscow, if Moscow wants to be some sort of Great Power. The Russian Empire and the USSR both included Ukraine.

    As our former host correctly summarized, between EU integration and de-Russification policies, Ukraine was leaving Russia behind and cutting itself off completely, becoming as foreign to Russia as Poland, and this was the last chance for Russia to take it back, or to at least salvage as much of it as possible. They hoped to get it all (at least outside Galicia and Volhynia), but will settle for as much as they can.


    Regarding your denials: ‘but they postponed it year after year!” – are you really that stupid? That’s how it is done, the goal is the same, the implementation and timing are based on circumstances.
     
    The fact that they never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.

    BTW, you ignored my statement about NATO as a rule not accepting any country than has ongoing territorial disputes. Russian lackeys like you were bragging how, by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia made NATO entrance for Ukraine impossible. It was a brilliant move by Putin.

    But now you claim that Ukraine was going to enter NATO anyways, and had to be stopped.

    Were Russian lackeys like you lying then, or lying now?

    Or were you too stupid to keep track?


    The Ukie Constitution literally says that Ukraine will join Nato.
     
    It still does, that hasn't changed. It says that EU and NATO are strategic objectives. Crimea and Donbas are also part of Ukraine according to the Constitution.

    And NATO still declares that Ukraine will join NATO. So these things haven't changed since Russia's invasion.

    What has changed, is that Ukraine's military has integrated far more with NATO's military, and had proven itself as a battle-tested worthy potential member of NATO. So, as I wrote, odds of NATO membership have impr0ved as a result of this war, from 5% to 25%.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Beckow

    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.

    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it. Just remember, attempting a genocide of an ethnic group is a crime and trying it against a larger, stronger group usually doesn’t work. The enthusiasts will face consequences.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers….

    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k “IT workers” in the Lviv region, around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages. It has some research, but the overall impact on the Ukrainian economy is very marginal, 2-3%, a lot less than in other EE countries. $3k, are you kidding? that’s what a good barista makes.

    That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.

    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that. You live in a lala-land of your retarded slogans.

    1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.

    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you? How can you simply gloss over it? That shows dishonesty and hypocrisy so deep that none of your statements mean much.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that – a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes. That’s why being right on the border in close proximity and having the Russia-hating Ukies ready was so important. At a minimum it would keep Russia powerless. You want that, so you, but naturally Russia doesn’t want it.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine. You make no sense when you try to compare Finland (or Estonia) to Ukraine. Think before you write nonsense.

    Nato never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.

    The ‘not meaningful’ and ‘empty‘ was not the way it was presented – that is your desperate spin. It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity – if you don’t get that you are too naive. At least argue reality and not silly evasive narratives. If you think that ‘territorial conflict’ would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else. What matters is the intent, not how exactly Nato would do it. People who deny it are not serious or idiots.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine unless Kiev wins the war in a big way. Nato will feed the conflict, but probably not join in. After Ukies are bled and surrender large parts of their country, Nato will pontificate but stay out. Russia with the war changed the strategic balance.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    “This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.”

    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it
     
    Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people; ethnic Ukrainian kids are learning in their own language now.

    Russia is erasing towns and thousands of Russian-speaking people.

    An honest person would admit which action is closer to genocide.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers….

    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k “IT workers” in the Lviv region
     
    It has increased since the war as companies have moved from places like Kharkiv and many more of Ukraine’s 200,000 IT workers have transferred to Lviv:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/business/ukraine-tech-companies-putin.html

    The entire country of Slovakia only has 28k such workers:

    https://www.itminions.be/en/blog/slovakia-tech-talent-goldmine

    around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages
     
    “Call center work” isn’t IT customer support.

    $3k, are you kidding? that’s what a good barista makes

     

    The average wage in Slovakia is less than a thousand Euros per month. So those 35,000 + new arrivals programmers in Lviv are making 3 times the average Slovak wage per month, in a city with a very low cost of living. They are living quite well.

    Average German wage is about the same as the average Lviv programmer wage.

    And programmers in Bratislava make no more than do programmers in Lviv:

    http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=2226&loctype=3&job=3&jobtype=2

    Given the Lviv us cheaper, the guys in Lviv do better than their Slovak colleagues.

    “That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.”

    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that
     
    1. That was started by Russians when they crossed the border into Ukraine with their volunteers and weapons. Girkin and Pavlov weren’t Ukrainians.

    2. The Russian mass invasion and murder spree began in 2022, 7 years after 2015. Its already a separate event.

    “1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.”

    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?

     

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

    A difference between NATO and Russia is that Russia kills far more Slavs though.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that – a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes
     
    No one is touching obnoxious but tiny North Korea, and everyone tolerates it’s missile overflies over places like Japan. But you think NATO would dare invade Russia?

    NATO would forever keep Russia’s hands off Ukraine. This is why Russia doesn’t want NATO there. It wants to reabsorb Ukraine. NATO itself is secondary to the main problem for Russia, which is the eternal loss of Ukraine. Russia would seek to end Ukraine even when - as was the case prior to invasion - NATO membership was very unlikely.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine
     
    Now you’ve slipped and admitted that the problem wasn’t exactly NATO, but Ukraine.

    Finns btw don’t like Russia either and have stronger claims on Russian territory than Ukrainians do. You keep bringing up Volyn from 80 years ago but now you’ve conveniently forgotten what Finland had been up to at that time.

    It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity
     
    Like in 2008? No war then and Yushchenko was president. But it didn’t happen. Nor did it in every year since then.

    If you think that ‘territorial conflict’ would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else
     
    Your type like to conveniently change your story. First you brag about how by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia has blocked Ukraine from getting into NATO. Brilliant chess move by Putin! But now when you need a pending NATO membership as an excuse for a full invasion and attempt at regime change, that becomes irrelevant.

    Your hypocrisy and mendacity on display again and as usual. It also shows how undignified it is, to always lick the Russian boot as you do.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine

     

    NATO is more in Ukraine now than it ever has been.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Beckow

  96. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    And today it is not only the Slav they are after, but the Western middle class as well. It’s Westerstroika time.
     
    Sounds about right.

    In early 1992 my family had enough savings to buy cash a car and a country house (datcha), six months later we were ruined and eating humanitarian aid. They gave us a few boxes of expired Slimfast noodle soup. 🙂
     
    Hopefully, when the Fall of Capitalism takes place, you and yours will not be like those Japanese who got hit at Hiroshima by the atomic bomb, and survived it, went to Nagasaki for 'safety', only to get hit again. [Some gallows humor there! :-D ]

    Replies: @Beckow

    …but the Western middle class as well.

    I generally defend the middle class everywhere, but let’s be honest: large part of the Western middle class is simply parasitic. They consume way beyond anything productive they do. I don’t want to list the endless silly made-up activities that provide their living, from distributing gment goodies and virtual money, endless ‘charity’, green activism, protecting against “Russia”, social media, etc…all of that is possible only because the material basis (land, food, infrastructure, energy…) has been either built up or is often obtained at minimum cost from the rest of the world (that virtual money machine :)…

    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the ‘middle class’ nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place – fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have – they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go…

    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the ‘middle class’ nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place – fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have – they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go…
     
    Cold War era produced the numerous Sovoks in USSR and the numerous Western middle class in the West. Let's call them Westmids. The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended, and the Sovok have been dealt with through Perestroika and the ensuing "reforms", the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the "minorities" are tools used to bring the Westmids down. The Westmids are in no way wiser than the Sovoks. And they will also be dealt with through the unfolding Westerstroika.

    Sic transit gloria mundi...

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    I say, time for them to go…
     
    Them disappearing will include (P~.98) totalitarian control on your consumption of wine, t-bone steak, cannabis, gasoline, heating and cooling energy, and an ad infinitum of consumer goods.

    Also your speech. They would control your thoughts if they had the power to do so. Attempting to control our thoughts will consume an increasing fraction of resources.

    Ted Kaczynski had a better plan and his plan was retarded.

    Replies: @Beckow

  97. @Mikel
    @Leaves No Shadow


    How much are we betting?
     
    Interesting, to see you betting on military matters after your epic Taliban prediction.

    But I would be very surprised myself if Lukashenko sends Belarussian troops to Ukraine at this unfavorable stage. Putin may have most of the population behind him but Luka doesn't. That's why he finally had to align himself with the Kremlin in the first place. If even Putin is unwilling to take the mobilization measures that would allow him to put an end to the misadventure he started, will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AnonfromTN

    Was right on near everything about Putin’s invasion so far, but made a horrible and fatal calculation for Afghanistan: that anti-Taliban forces might actually try and fight. Everyone should have known that Afghans don’t really fight, they either hide and set bombs/traps, or they instantly fold and switch to whichever they think is the stronger side, but this was extreme.

    That’s not to characterise them as lacking courage, as their methods require immense courage sometimes, but it is so totally different from the European paradigm that even someone occasionally accused of racism could not imagine it.

    Well, lesson learned. But if I am guilty of extrapolating from Europeans to Afghans, most here are guilty of extrapolating from Afghans to Eastern Slavs.

    We live we learn. One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.
     
    An interesting way to try to get out of being wrong - rather feminine. The one error vs. thousands makes no sense - you made it up, your attempt at self-justification.

    In this war you are making the error of extrapolating from partial events - you also buy the Kiev-Nato cheerful half-truths. It is a war with a stronger force grinding down a weaker one. Ukies are getting help, but not where it counts: Nato is not sending enough bodies to have a chance against larger better armed Russians.

    The idea is that if Ukies manage to make it painful, Russia will agree to a compromise. The problem with that approach is that wars are not like that: the sides always polarize in the first few years - Russia is less yielding than a year ago. Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on - there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.

    All else is noise, temporary events that will be irrelevant after the war. Kiev's best hope was an internal Russian collapse - it didn't happen. Second best was Nato coming in with actual armies-planes-navy and fighting their war - it also didn't happen. They can hope for an eventual nuclear standoff, but it is a low-odds event.

    The current Kiev-West strategy is to fight for every ditch, every tree and every house: it is costly in lives and historically I can't recall anyone defeating Russia doing it. They are slow, often incompetent, but they don't give up once they get going. And the numbers are hard to argue with. You will turn out equally wrong about this war as you were about Taleban.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You predicted an intractable guerilla war and a Russian occupation.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  98. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    In particular, your posts seem to operate only in black or white, without any shades of grey. You also seem very quick to devalue what triggers you. And you seem keen to assign your own behaviour to others.

     

    Operate? Shades of Grey? Devalue? Trigger? Assign?

    Wouldn't guess that any of this was the terminology employed by the Gaelic warrior class, who fought countless battles, and recited poems about swords and scabbards, and knew their ancestors by heart. Are you sure that you haven't attempted to reshape the definition of the masculine, so that it would be unrecognizable to anyone in the past? Whether warrior, fisherman, or farmer? Maybe, with the desire to invent some new age man?

    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety? Or women are too Manichean? Surely, what is not yang is yin? Or maybe you are overthinking things, if that is not how you are ordering your categories.

    I will show you which comments of yours directly correspond to these three observations if you request me.
     
    I prefer introspection.

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people's heart's and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege. And the people who get on the couch the most don't seem a healthy lot either. I think they would be better off praying and going to religious services.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety?

    By associating “masculinity” with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.

    I prefer introspection.

    You do?

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people’s heart’s and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege.

    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    By associating “masculinity” with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.
     
    Are you sure that is not how you became a tranny?

    I was hoping you would actually give us your definition of masculinity. Does your idea of it not have any fixed qualities?

    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.
     
    Why so anti-religious? Thought that there were a lot of churches and synagogues accepting gays and trannies now.

    Zimbardo (one of your party who fell into disrepute) outright said that he didn't believe in a soul. IIRC, you said you did (probably a dodge to avoid the stigma of not believing in one), but your strange attempt to redefine masculinity seems to show you don't, which is further underlined by your professed belief that you can dissect anyone's brain and see inside their thoughts. Not guess (which everyone enjoys doing), but actually observe their inner self, and then change it. Not just one person that you have rapport with, but anyone here.

    I think there is something Satanic in your confidence, and I don't mind saying so. Maybe, it is simple narcissism, but compounded by new age beliefs.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  99. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thomas Friedman writes 99% garbage. But he did write one eminently sensible sentence.

    "Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?"

    This idea applies to most places.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @YetAnotherAnon

    “Is Iraq the way it is because of Saddam Hussein, or is Saddam Hussein the way he is because of Iraq?”

    You could also say that given the country was Iraq, Saddam or someone like him may have been the best ruler. Certainly applies in spades to Gaddaffi, who was IMHO a great ruler of Libya.

    And IMHO also applies to Putin. Given the oligarch dominance in 1990s Russia, it’s a miracle he survived, and it was only because the oligarchs thought he was their man. Those years when he was slowly and cautiously wresting power from them, boiling the oligarch frog… my impression is that he still isn’t in total control but has a modus vivendi with the surviving oligarchs. The war may have strengthened his position has a fair few ran off to Israel.

    “Putin inherited a ransacked and bewildered country, with a poor and demoralized people,” Solzhenitsyn told the German magazine Der Spiegel in a 2007 interview, when Putin was still president. “And he started to do what was possible, a slow and gradual restoration. These efforts were not noticed, nor appreciated, immediately. In any case, one is hard-pressed to find examples in history when steps by one country to restore its strength were met favorably by other governments.”

    • Agree: Beckow, AnonfromTN
  100. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mikel

    Was right on near everything about Putin's invasion so far, but made a horrible and fatal calculation for Afghanistan: that anti-Taliban forces might actually try and fight. Everyone should have known that Afghans don't really fight, they either hide and set bombs/traps, or they instantly fold and switch to whichever they think is the stronger side, but this was extreme.

    That's not to characterise them as lacking courage, as their methods require immense courage sometimes, but it is so totally different from the European paradigm that even someone occasionally accused of racism could not imagine it.

    Well, lesson learned. But if I am guilty of extrapolating from Europeans to Afghans, most here are guilty of extrapolating from Afghans to Eastern Slavs.

    We live we learn. One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

    One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.

    An interesting way to try to get out of being wrong – rather feminine. The one error vs. thousands makes no sense – you made it up, your attempt at self-justification.

    In this war you are making the error of extrapolating from partial events – you also buy the Kiev-Nato cheerful half-truths. It is a war with a stronger force grinding down a weaker one. Ukies are getting help, but not where it counts: Nato is not sending enough bodies to have a chance against larger better armed Russians.

    The idea is that if Ukies manage to make it painful, Russia will agree to a compromise. The problem with that approach is that wars are not like that: the sides always polarize in the first few years – Russia is less yielding than a year ago. Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on – there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.

    All else is noise, temporary events that will be irrelevant after the war. Kiev’s best hope was an internal Russian collapse – it didn’t happen. Second best was Nato coming in with actual armies-planes-navy and fighting their war – it also didn’t happen. They can hope for an eventual nuclear standoff, but it is a low-odds event.

    The current Kiev-West strategy is to fight for every ditch, every tree and every house: it is costly in lives and historically I can’t recall anyone defeating Russia doing it. They are slow, often incompetent, but they don’t give up once they get going. And the numbers are hard to argue with. You will turn out equally wrong about this war as you were about Taleban.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Beckow


    Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on – there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.
     
    Too lazy to search, but quite confident you were writing the same about Kharkov-Kherson last summer;)
    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    You in March:


    How are they going to rebuilt military assets if Russia can blow anything that comes in? You can’t hide planes, air fields, artillery or missiles. Go for it, but unless you have some magical way to protect it, it will be a sitting duck
     
    Russia has not yet even achieved air superiority now!

    You arguing that Ukraine was surrendering a year ago:

    Do you really believe that Ukraine will win this militarily? At best they will negotiate terms of surrender – Ze. is already starting.

    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of *insert some completely ignorant argument about how commodities are the global economy and everything else is financial engineering.* Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.

    And I don't know what you were smoking when you wrote this absurd fantasy:

    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time. (Galicia is a possible exception that makes no strategic difference.)


    – “Nazis” in Kiev are running away for their lives or dying. Zelensky is not a Nazi, he has nothing to fear other than the West or Nazis deciding that he has more value as a martyr. No rest for the wicked as they say.

    As for me, I admitted I was wrong. I then explained why my imagination was lacking. And I endeavoured not to make the same mistake again. I did this with my one mistake, immediately, and have expanded my range of possible assumptions since, so that I am not again shocked by the extremity of Afghan behaviour.

    Meanwhile, you just ignore, deflect, devalue and never learn your way out of everything. Indeed, you can't even seem to admit that you have been wrong, despite being wrong near every day, in every way, on this subject for an entire year!

    You can call my method feminine if you like, and yours masculine, but that association will not be good for you.

    Replies: @Beckow

  101. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.
     
    An interesting way to try to get out of being wrong - rather feminine. The one error vs. thousands makes no sense - you made it up, your attempt at self-justification.

    In this war you are making the error of extrapolating from partial events - you also buy the Kiev-Nato cheerful half-truths. It is a war with a stronger force grinding down a weaker one. Ukies are getting help, but not where it counts: Nato is not sending enough bodies to have a chance against larger better armed Russians.

    The idea is that if Ukies manage to make it painful, Russia will agree to a compromise. The problem with that approach is that wars are not like that: the sides always polarize in the first few years - Russia is less yielding than a year ago. Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on - there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.

    All else is noise, temporary events that will be irrelevant after the war. Kiev's best hope was an internal Russian collapse - it didn't happen. Second best was Nato coming in with actual armies-planes-navy and fighting their war - it also didn't happen. They can hope for an eventual nuclear standoff, but it is a low-odds event.

    The current Kiev-West strategy is to fight for every ditch, every tree and every house: it is costly in lives and historically I can't recall anyone defeating Russia doing it. They are slow, often incompetent, but they don't give up once they get going. And the numbers are hard to argue with. You will turn out equally wrong about this war as you were about Taleban.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on – there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.

    Too lazy to search, but quite confident you were writing the same about Kharkov-Kherson last summer;)

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
  102. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.
     
    An interesting way to try to get out of being wrong - rather feminine. The one error vs. thousands makes no sense - you made it up, your attempt at self-justification.

    In this war you are making the error of extrapolating from partial events - you also buy the Kiev-Nato cheerful half-truths. It is a war with a stronger force grinding down a weaker one. Ukies are getting help, but not where it counts: Nato is not sending enough bodies to have a chance against larger better armed Russians.

    The idea is that if Ukies manage to make it painful, Russia will agree to a compromise. The problem with that approach is that wars are not like that: the sides always polarize in the first few years - Russia is less yielding than a year ago. Ukies threw everything into it, yet the grind goes on - there is little chance of retaking Donbas-Crimea.

    All else is noise, temporary events that will be irrelevant after the war. Kiev's best hope was an internal Russian collapse - it didn't happen. Second best was Nato coming in with actual armies-planes-navy and fighting their war - it also didn't happen. They can hope for an eventual nuclear standoff, but it is a low-odds event.

    The current Kiev-West strategy is to fight for every ditch, every tree and every house: it is costly in lives and historically I can't recall anyone defeating Russia doing it. They are slow, often incompetent, but they don't give up once they get going. And the numbers are hard to argue with. You will turn out equally wrong about this war as you were about Taleban.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    You in March:

    How are they going to rebuilt military assets if Russia can blow anything that comes in? You can’t hide planes, air fields, artillery or missiles. Go for it, but unless you have some magical way to protect it, it will be a sitting duck

    Russia has not yet even achieved air superiority now!

    You arguing that Ukraine was surrendering a year ago:

    Do you really believe that Ukraine will win this militarily? At best they will negotiate terms of surrender – Ze. is already starting.

    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of *insert some completely ignorant argument about how commodities are the global economy and everything else is financial engineering.* Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.

    And I don’t know what you were smoking when you wrote this absurd fantasy:

    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time. (Galicia is a possible exception that makes no strategic difference.)

    – “Nazis” in Kiev are running away for their lives or dying. Zelensky is not a Nazi, he has nothing to fear other than the West or Nazis deciding that he has more value as a martyr. No rest for the wicked as they say.

    As for me, I admitted I was wrong. I then explained why my imagination was lacking. And I endeavoured not to make the same mistake again. I did this with my one mistake, immediately, and have expanded my range of possible assumptions since, so that I am not again shocked by the extremity of Afghan behaviour.

    Meanwhile, you just ignore, deflect, devalue and never learn your way out of everything. Indeed, you can’t even seem to admit that you have been wrong, despite being wrong near every day, in every way, on this subject for an entire year!

    You can call my method feminine if you like, and yours masculine, but that association will not be good for you.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Why are you so obsessed w fighting a straw-man? You misrepresent what I write and then you argue with it. What's the point? Dont you a better way to argue your side? Let's get real, I wrote:


    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time.
     
    Nato is gone. If you haven't noticed we went from an almost certain Nato in Ukraine (I have described why many times), on Russia's borders with missiles-bases, to Nato lamely sending arms to outnumbered Ukies and losing the war. There is no chance of Ukraine in 1991 borders in Nato - it was almost certain before the war. You will deny, lie about the plans and intentions, blab nonsense about 'but it was postponed'...but you know that is a lie. More importantly Russians believed it was happening. At this point, Kiev would have to win the war decisively for Nato to come back. Arms, slogans, decorations and verbal support, even a mini-Nato in Galicia, don't count - they are an order of magnitude less significant that what was going happen.

    Ze. was negotiating in March what was a de facto surrender - so again I was right. He was told to cut it out, a decision he will probably come to regret. And lots of people run away - literally millions, why would you deny that?


    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of....Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.
     
    I was not, you are making it up (you couldn't even find a quote remotely saying that). I said the war will slow down the Western economies - and it did: 2023 official projection of EU is 0.6% growth, UK 0.1%, Germany 0.3% - the numbers are squishy since the min positives are achieved by under-stating inflation (easy thing to do)

    I remember everyone predicting Russia's economy collapse and it didn't happen, its GNP dropped by 3%. For 2023 IMF has Russia growing 0.3% - better than Germany or UK.

    The real collapse happened in Ukraine, 30% down (some of it lost lands, but no a big part).

    Overall you prefer to create a straw-man to discussing reality or what others say. You may also be the last person who pushes the 'Russia blew up North Stream', but whatever. The war has tipped in Russia's favor, I don't see a realistic Ukie response (maybe you do). But for the sake decency don't misrepresent what others say. If you like to argue w yourself, why are you here?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  103. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    I wonder whether Poles will intervene on Ukrainian side as I wrote a couple of days ago.
     
    Are you writing this in full seriousness or as a kind of an "innocent" prompt that "a Fool" would bring up?

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed. So far it seems, it won't be. It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    innocent” prompt that “a Fool” would bring up

    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”. 😉

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed.

    Yeah, I know. That’s the plan.

    It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.

    Taras, Gritsko and Mykola do not come in unlimited supply. Sooner rather than later, a war of attrition would lead to its logical consequences – the need for the Western backers to either fold or intervene.

    Being the simple-minded fool that I am, I believe Westerners would prefer seeing the Eastern Europeans “do the job for them”, just like you would prefer it being done by “Mykola”. Any Eastern European killed is one less to neuter or euthanize during the coming population bottleneck.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem – FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix, given that they seem eager to participate. Let’s make it FSBSP for inclusivity’s sake. 🙂

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things.
     
    All I asked was if that's what you truly believe or it's just your wishful thinking.

    just like you would prefer it being done by “Mykola”
     

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem – FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix,
     
    Dream on.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”.
     
    I urge you to follow your own advice here. The war between Ukraine and Russia is not really all that complicated, and there's really no reason to look for answers and causes within elaborately made up conspiracy theories etc. Believe me, it is what it looks like. You have a disgruntled player in this war (Russia) that thought that it had an invincible army, and that it was losing Ukraine to the West, and that this was the last optimal time to attack and subdue Ukraine and bring it back into the fold. How was Ukraine to react to this provocation? Quietly acquiesce to Russia's brazen invasion, in order to maximize good Slavic DNA for future generations, while handing over the keys to its house to a really lousy neighbor?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

  104. @Yahya
    @songbird


    BTW, I see Yahya will not accept Rachel Maddow back into the fold (however beautiful TL asserts she is.) Perhaps, Jennifer Connelly, or ScarJo, if they were younger?

     

    Maddow isn't even 1/8th Middle Eastern; you twit.

    ScarJo looks Germanic/Nordic.

    Jennifer Connelly looks Black Irish or Italian.

    Would pass as Middle Eastern if a few facial features were tweaked though.

    Wouldn't mind accepting her to the fold. She was born in Cairo after all.

    Is also beautiful and intelligent.

    You can keep the other two.


    Yahya once went ape, when I said I thought blacks do not have a culture,
     
    I don't recall commenting on that. Though I'm open to being wrong. You are welcome to provide a link to my comment.

    Blacks do have a culture; both in Africa and America. The former is primitive and the latter depraved; but they are distinct cultures nonetheless. You are conflating "bad" with "nothing".


    but I don’t think that Euros really have a modern culture either, at least at scale, which, if anything, is even more disgraceful. It is mostly coasting on past glories, and our modern culture is diversity, and it is basically impossible to dissociate from those elements, and degenerate at that.

     

    There are pockets of creditable high-culture in Europe. Most of it is indeed "coasting" on previous accomplishments; but that is both a sin and a virtue. It can be good to preserve the achievements of one's ancestors; whether in literature, music, film, art or architecture. I don't see the issue with performing Bach or Mozart in a French cathedral every weekend. Many non-European peoples also tend to replay the same music from their golden ages. The Ancient Egyptians maintained the same aesthetic for thousands of years. On the other hand, innovation and creativity are also worthy endeavors. Contrary to what you might think; the presence of foreigners is no impediment to cultural flourishing. Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans; likewise Alexandria was for a millennia the most culturally productive city in the Western world. The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.

    I don't think anyone has a finger on the causes of Western cultural decline. Some posit a general downward trend starting in WW1; though I view the timeline as variable depending on cultural activity. Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century. James Huneker in Old Fogy contended that "no great music [has been] made since the death of Beethoven". That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    @Latw


    Irish German maybe?
     
    Anglin doesn't need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.

    Apparently Irish-Americans now think themselves Aryan ubermenschen.

    The deracination must've gotten to some of them. Very sad really.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Coconuts

    That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.

    Woke is a special problem because of the belief it includes that cultural discourses create reality, it makes them very sensitive to how people talk about or depict things. The ideas about epistemic violence and hidden systems of power encoded in culture causing physical violence are related to this. I think putting so much emphasis on discourse control and harm elimination is obviously destructive to artistic freedom and creativity.

    A relatively common explanation of Western cultural decline, in Nietzsche but in plenty of other writers, was the rise of the mass man and the democratic spirit in politics.

    Imo the current mass migration is a problem for creativity because people are inhibited from engaging freely with it and addressing all the issues it raises in an unfiltered way, just as it is becoming more relevant. People creating art are in some way in a dialogue with the society around them and need to have a feel for its values, spirit and social forms, in various Western countries mass immigration is reaching a scale where it is starting to modify these things. Now the process is also being heavily monitored and controlled by bureaucratic political authorities and mass media, taken together I feel this kills inspiration.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    taken together I feel this kills inspiration.
     
    Taken together it kills the Western middle class and its way of living. It is a societal regression and a cultural genocide in making.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  105. @Beckow
    @S


    ...but the Western middle class as well.
     
    I generally defend the middle class everywhere, but let's be honest: large part of the Western middle class is simply parasitic. They consume way beyond anything productive they do. I don't want to list the endless silly made-up activities that provide their living, from distributing gment goodies and virtual money, endless 'charity', green activism, protecting against "Russia", social media, etc...all of that is possible only because the material basis (land, food, infrastructure, energy...) has been either built up or is often obtained at minimum cost from the rest of the world (that virtual money machine :)...

    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the 'middle class' nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place - fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have - they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go...

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the ‘middle class’ nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place – fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have – they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go…

    Cold War era produced the numerous Sovoks in USSR and the numerous Western middle class in the West. Let’s call them Westmids. The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended, and the Sovok have been dealt with through Perestroika and the ensuing “reforms”, the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the “minorities” are tools used to bring the Westmids down. The Westmids are in no way wiser than the Sovoks. And they will also be dealt with through the unfolding Westerstroika.

    Sic transit gloria mundi…

    • Agree: AnonfromTN
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Ivashka the fool


    ...The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended...the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the “minorities” are tools used to bring the Westmids down
     
    Precisely...Sic transit gloria mundi…

    Westmids' (let's use it) best friend was Stalin and the commies: the fear in the Western elite after WW2 made them give and give: incomes up, nice neighborhoods, assured jobs if you behaved, good culture, travel, goodies, etc...

    They only needed to do it as long as the commie threat existed - by the late 70's when the commies went lame, the first 'reforms' started. The usual suspects, French, Italian, even Germans, resisted at the beginning and were left alone. The Anglos led the way; they suffer from an incredibly low sense of society and are trained to be ruthlessly individualistic. As always the beginnings were promising: privatizations made a part of the transition generation rich, the older workers were protected, and early migrants were probably more help than trouble. The 90's were good, esp. since the accumulated Eastern wealth was generously doled out.

    It no longer works: you can issue a lot of money backed by nothing, but eventually the numbers don't work. The pyramid nature of the new capitalism created 1-2 rich generations, but it impoverishing the kids and grandkids. The open borders-mass migration-cheap labor mania has reached absurd levels - look at the US southern border.

    The elites are stuck - lowering living standards is risky, although they can count on the accumulated stupidity after decades of heavy propaganda. It takes 20-30 years for people to start acting in their self-interest - we are almost there. Maybe having a war is better :)...or Greta...

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  106. @Coconuts
    @Yahya


    That was certainly far before the woke and migration wave. Nietzsche and Spengler were already discussing the decline of the West a century ago. Your racial obsession blinds you from other consequential factors. Wokeism is a symptom rather than cause of decline.
     
    Woke is a special problem because of the belief it includes that cultural discourses create reality, it makes them very sensitive to how people talk about or depict things. The ideas about epistemic violence and hidden systems of power encoded in culture causing physical violence are related to this. I think putting so much emphasis on discourse control and harm elimination is obviously destructive to artistic freedom and creativity.

    A relatively common explanation of Western cultural decline, in Nietzsche but in plenty of other writers, was the rise of the mass man and the democratic spirit in politics.

    Imo the current mass migration is a problem for creativity because people are inhibited from engaging freely with it and addressing all the issues it raises in an unfiltered way, just as it is becoming more relevant. People creating art are in some way in a dialogue with the society around them and need to have a feel for its values, spirit and social forms, in various Western countries mass immigration is reaching a scale where it is starting to modify these things. Now the process is also being heavily monitored and controlled by bureaucratic political authorities and mass media, taken together I feel this kills inspiration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    taken together I feel this kills inspiration.

    Taken together it kills the Western middle class and its way of living. It is a societal regression and a cultural genocide in making.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Taken together it kills the Western middle class and its way of living. It is a societal regression and a cultural genocide in making.
     
    Likely the potential for this is why there is the current level of control over engaging with it culturally.

    I was working in an arts related field myself and for a long time (my adult life till then really) my interests were more on religious traditions and consumer society, I was maybe becoming more curious about Northern European themes because of spending time in the Baltic and Belarus.

    Seeing mainstream demographic projections in around 2019 got me more interested in major ethnic and cultural change and after the 2020 events it became the main thing I was thinking about. But it's hard to do anything with that theme at present if you need to earn a living.

  107. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    innocent” prompt that “a Fool” would bring up
     
    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : "when you don't think a lot becomes clearer". 😉

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed.
     
    Yeah, I know. That's the plan.

    It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.
     
    Taras, Gritsko and Mykola do not come in unlimited supply. Sooner rather than later, a war of attrition would lead to its logical consequences - the need for the Western backers to either fold or intervene.

    Being the simple-minded fool that I am, I believe Westerners would prefer seeing the Eastern Europeans "do the job for them", just like you would prefer it being done by "Mykola". Any Eastern European killed is one less to neuter or euthanize during the coming population bottleneck.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem - FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix, given that they seem eager to participate. Let's make it FSBSP for inclusivity's sake. 🙂

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack

    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things.

    All I asked was if that’s what you truly believe or it’s just your wishful thinking.

    just like you would prefer it being done by “Mykola”

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem – FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix,

    Dream on.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @LatW


    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.
     
    Yes, and for good reason.

    If you want something heartwarming, use the AirBnB app and go to a property in Ukraine, especially in places like Kherson. There you see endless supportive reviews from ordinary people in countries that see themselves as Ukrainian friends and who have payed for accomodation they obviously didn't stay in.

    There are many similar phenomena to this. Tanks, military training, foreign volunteers and missiles are just the beginning of it.

    This all doesn't make the Russian invasion good, or mean that the Ukrainians need display less bravery, but it certainly is of value. And appreciated.

    Meanwhile, Russian "friends" use this occasion to scam the Russian people out of oil for half of the going price.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    All I asked was if that’s what you truly believe or it’s just your wishful thinking.
     
    Why would I wish for others becoming engulfed in violence and suffering ? No sane person would. I am a fool, but I am not a sociopath.

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.
     
    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end. Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.

    Dream on.
     
    Again, why would I dream for something so vile ? Do I come accross in my comments as someone who would like to see other people suffering?

    But one has to be logical and consequential, follow the dots: Baltics are in NATO and quite close to Kaliningrad and Belarus. If Belarus is dragged into the war, then the violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.

    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other. I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members. But the West has its own problems. The West might well decide to leave the Balto-Slav sort it out. If I was Western I would not want my people to die for the Suwalki Gap. Just like I don't want the Balto-Slav that I consider as my people to die in retarded wars under Western patronage.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

  108. @A123
    @QCIC (from previous thread)

    The LFTR (~liquid fluoride thorium reactor) as originally developed at Oak Ridge is pretty much an ideal reactor with one exception. It was basically the worst design imaginable in terms of proliferation and produced ready to use U-233 which is actually worse than plutonium in this respect.
     
    U233 is mediocre for weapons production. Only one has been tested and it was a fizzle. Worse yet the U233 cycle is poisoned by U232 which produces very undesirable, frequent, high gamma decay events. This is not a power plant issue, but it can easily break sensitive electronics in weapons applications.

    Comparatively, Pu239 is a much easier pathway to a functional fission weapon.

    There are ways to work around this aspect which hopefully have been fleshed out.
     
    Because breeder style power plant reactors consume the fissile material they are creating, diversion to other uses is difficult. Over accumulation is an undesirable characteristic to be minimized.

    While fission bomb material is also produced by breeding, the reactor construction is quite different.

    When I was a kid thorium reserves were thought to be good for tens of thousands of years.
     
    Thorium is inevitably dug up with other Rare Earth Elements. Thousands of years of fuel is not an over statement.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300

    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.

    From what I remember, thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage, recently in Halden.

    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium (in such a case we wouldn’t build them at all) – clearly we could have a couple of military reactors and the rest of them running on thorium.

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300
     
    What full scale (not lab scale) Thorium reactor was discontinued in the U.S.?
    ____

    THTR was a mixed solid U235 + Thorium "Pebble Bed Reactor" [PBR]. This has huge disadvantages versus LFTR. For example, the thorium cycle produces gases such as krypton. The LFTR can shed these gas from the operating fluid. Solid pebbles cannot. There were also science errors in the design of the pebble -- small & light enough to escape the bed.

    Ultimately, the German THTR was killed by the German Green party for political reasons. However, the poor choice & design of PBR plus related economics made it a pretty easy target for a take down.


    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.
     
    I do not remember news about an issue. It was a limited duration experimental scale system. (1)

    In one fell swoop, thorium fuel, which is safer, less messy to clean up, and not prone to nuclear weapons proliferation, could quench the complaints of nuclear power critics everywhere.
    ...
    By mixing thorium oxide with 10% plutonium oxide, however, criticality is achieved. This fuel, which is called thorium-MOX (mixed-oxide), can then be formed into rods and used in conventional nuclear reactors. Not only does this mean that we can do away with uranium, which is expensive to enrich, dangerous, and leads to nuclear proliferation, but it also means that we finally have an easy way of recycling plutonium. Furthermore, the thorium-MOX fuel cycle produces no new plutonium; it actually reduces the world’s stock of plutonium. Oh, thorium-MOX makes for safer nuclear reactors, too, due to a higher melting point and thermal conductivity.
    ...
    Thorium-MOX, in short, is about as exciting as it gets in the nuclear power industry. Before it can be used, though, Thor Energy needs to make sure that the thorium fuel cycle is fully understood. To do this, the company has built a small test reactor in the Norwegian town of Halden, where rods of thorium-MOX provide steam to a nearby paper mill. This reactor will run for five years, after which the fuel will be analyzed to see if it’s ready for commercial reactors
     
    My understanding is that it completed it limited period test and concluded as expected.

    If a major warhead decrease is in the cards, this concept could return. However, that seems unlikely in this geopolitical era. Without "free" plutonium, the economics of the Norwegian test did not warrant commercialization.


    thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage
     
    I am not sure where you got this bit of crazy from, but it is not scientifically sound. You have been mislead or deceived.

    Clean FLiBe salt can be handled with modern materials in the Hastelloy series. Removing unwanted fission products is included in every serious LFTR proposal. Incidentally, this also reconditions the FLiBe salt back to its optimum clean state.

    LCTR fast neutron reactor concepts do exist in the literature, however the chloride salts are more problematic versus their fluoride brethren. Liquid lead seems to be the most attractive option for this route if desired. A few nutters, funded by GE, promote liquid sodium PRISM. Guess who owns the PRISM design? Could it be GE?


    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors
     
    There has been no repeated mothballing. Again, you have been mislead or deceived.

    There has been only one commercial scale retirement. And, it was a poorly chosen & executed solid fuel design. Thus, not insightful to the LFTR concept.


    cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium
     
    The military used cold war muscle to kill the early, government funded, LFTR work at ORNL and a few other locations. This kill shot was based on poor science, but it happened nonetheless in the quest for weapons grade plutonium.

    After that, the problem was more bureaucracy than military. All of the civilian laws & regulations had the U235 fuel cycle as a built in assumption. How would a thorium breeder be certified for operation when the rules expect something different? The red tape made it impossible. Also, all of the industry experts had a vested interest in keeping upstart competitors at bay.

    The desire for Small Modular Reactors [SMR] forced the regulators to open their committees to new ideas. And, LFTR is an excellent SMR option due to passive safety.

    You can read much more here:

    https://energyfromthorium.com/lftr-overview/

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/160131-thorium-nuclear-reactor-trial-begins-could-provide-cleaner-safer-almost-waste-free-energy

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @QCIC
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think these experiments were dropped for political reasons, not technical.

    +++

    The "fizzle" was 22 kT, not exactly hopeless.

    IIRC, the original idea for the MSRE was to remove most all of the protactinum-232 continuously from the salt bath to to improve neutron economy by avoiding losses on protactinum in the reactor. This removal was demonstrated during the experiment. The removed material decays into U-233 which is returned to the reactor as the fuel. But during this stage it exists outside the reactor as high purity U-233 which could be diverted. I think it has less U-232 than material bred in a conventional reactor and the critical mass is lower than U-235. There is low spontaneous neutron generation so a small gun-type bomb could be made, much simpler than an implosion design. This is the story I read.

    The ways to address this issue include good security control over the extracted U-233 (high trust society), set up a process that denatures it immediately or design a reactor that does not remove the Pa-232 from the reactor. I think the last is the route chosen for new designs, but the reactor design is less "elegant".

    Replies: @QCIC

  109. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things.
     
    All I asked was if that's what you truly believe or it's just your wishful thinking.

    just like you would prefer it being done by “Mykola”
     

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem – FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix,
     
    Dream on.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    Yes, and for good reason.

    If you want something heartwarming, use the AirBnB app and go to a property in Ukraine, especially in places like Kherson. There you see endless supportive reviews from ordinary people in countries that see themselves as Ukrainian friends and who have payed for accomodation they obviously didn’t stay in.

    There are many similar phenomena to this. Tanks, military training, foreign volunteers and missiles are just the beginning of it.

    This all doesn’t make the Russian invasion good, or mean that the Ukrainians need display less bravery, but it certainly is of value. And appreciated.

    Meanwhile, Russian “friends” use this occasion to scam the Russian people out of oil for half of the going price.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Leaves No Shadow


    If you want something heartwarming, use the AirBnB app and go to a property in Ukraine, especially in places like Kherson. There you see endless supportive reviews from ordinary people in countries that see themselves as Ukrainian friends and who have payed for accomodation they obviously didn’t stay in.

     

    I'm aware of that phenomena, it is heart warming indeed, but you don't need to tell me about this - I could've bought a nice car with what I've sent. I have helped the wounded. The wounded will need a lot of help after the war, too.

    Meanwhile, Russian “friends” use this occasion to scam the Russian people out of oil for half of the going price.
     

    Well, not only that, it looks like India will no longer be buying Russian helicopters, I guess they didn't withstand the "combat proof".
  110. @Leaves No Shadow
    @LatW


    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.
     
    Yes, and for good reason.

    If you want something heartwarming, use the AirBnB app and go to a property in Ukraine, especially in places like Kherson. There you see endless supportive reviews from ordinary people in countries that see themselves as Ukrainian friends and who have payed for accomodation they obviously didn't stay in.

    There are many similar phenomena to this. Tanks, military training, foreign volunteers and missiles are just the beginning of it.

    This all doesn't make the Russian invasion good, or mean that the Ukrainians need display less bravery, but it certainly is of value. And appreciated.

    Meanwhile, Russian "friends" use this occasion to scam the Russian people out of oil for half of the going price.

    Replies: @LatW

    If you want something heartwarming, use the AirBnB app and go to a property in Ukraine, especially in places like Kherson. There you see endless supportive reviews from ordinary people in countries that see themselves as Ukrainian friends and who have payed for accomodation they obviously didn’t stay in.

    I’m aware of that phenomena, it is heart warming indeed, but you don’t need to tell me about this – I could’ve bought a nice car with what I’ve sent. I have helped the wounded. The wounded will need a lot of help after the war, too.

    Meanwhile, Russian “friends” use this occasion to scam the Russian people out of oil for half of the going price.

    Well, not only that, it looks like India will no longer be buying Russian helicopters, I guess they didn’t withstand the “combat proof”.

  111. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things.
     
    All I asked was if that's what you truly believe or it's just your wishful thinking.

    just like you would prefer it being done by “Mykola”
     

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem – FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix,
     
    Dream on.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    All I asked was if that’s what you truly believe or it’s just your wishful thinking.

    Why would I wish for others becoming engulfed in violence and suffering ? No sane person would. I am a fool, but I am not a sociopath.

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.

    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end. Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.

    Dream on.

    Again, why would I dream for something so vile ? Do I come accross in my comments as someone who would like to see other people suffering?

    But one has to be logical and consequential, follow the dots: Baltics are in NATO and quite close to Kaliningrad and Belarus. If Belarus is dragged into the war, then the violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.

    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other. I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members. But the West has its own problems. The West might well decide to leave the Balto-Slav sort it out. If I was Western I would not want my people to die for the Suwalki Gap. Just like I don’t want the Balto-Slav that I consider as my people to die in retarded wars under Western patronage.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end.
     
    They determine that and they have been explicit about it. They and their friends never wanted this war, they were attacked on their territory.


    Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.
     
    Who was? Was I ever?

    If Belarus is dragged into the war
     
    Belarus has gone out of her way to not be dragged into it, but Belarus, unfortunately, is a party to the war by providing Russia with the platform to bomb Ukraine. The Belarusians do not want to fight Ukrainians and vice versa, that's one of the vilest things I can imagine, but if the Belarusians decide to fight with troops, they will receive it back accordingly. They will be hit on their territory. Their army is not large and has zero experience.

    violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.
     
    Violence can spill either way. When you go this far, with such an aggressive war, it can spill in the other direction than what you imagine (or desire?). When you mess with borders and deliberately break them, you make them fluid. It can go either way.


    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other.
     
    That's just not true. It would be a war with NATO. But it will not go that far.

    I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members.

     

    You don't know this because you only read your Telegram channels, but the normal Europeans are very angry.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    That's disingenuous. None of us wanted a war like this. If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    You must have skipped my comments during the past year. But that's OK, we all have a life outside of this blog.

    Btw, LatW also had a hard time understanding how I can be so opposed to Putin's war now when I was equally opposed to Ukraine's actions in Donbas. It's a strange thing, actually. I used to think that we Euros have a common general view of life and the world. I actually experienced this first hand when I lived in Chile. I met many expats from Europe and the US, including even a couple of Belarussian acquaintances who tried their luck in Chile and stayed at my house for some months. I always found that it was much easier to find rapport with fellow Europeans, even from the opposite side of the continent, than with the locals.

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches). But reality has shown me that this was an illusion. LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas. In fact, I feel like my non-religious but ethical approach to the question of war probably resonates more with non-Europeans these days than with fellow Euros. From what I read here and there, I have the impression that, unlike most Westerners, non-Euros are just aghast at the war that was once again started in Europe, hoping that it doesn't affect them too much and in general not feeling much need to take sides.

    Replies: @Sean, @sudden death, @Ivashka the fool

  112. @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the ‘middle class’ nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place – fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have – they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go…
     
    Cold War era produced the numerous Sovoks in USSR and the numerous Western middle class in the West. Let's call them Westmids. The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended, and the Sovok have been dealt with through Perestroika and the ensuing "reforms", the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the "minorities" are tools used to bring the Westmids down. The Westmids are in no way wiser than the Sovoks. And they will also be dealt with through the unfolding Westerstroika.

    Sic transit gloria mundi...

    Replies: @Beckow

    …The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended…the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the “minorities” are tools used to bring the Westmids down

    Precisely…Sic transit gloria mundi…

    Westmids’ (let’s use it) best friend was Stalin and the commies: the fear in the Western elite after WW2 made them give and give: incomes up, nice neighborhoods, assured jobs if you behaved, good culture, travel, goodies, etc…

    They only needed to do it as long as the commie threat existed – by the late 70’s when the commies went lame, the first ‘reforms’ started. The usual suspects, French, Italian, even Germans, resisted at the beginning and were left alone. The Anglos led the way; they suffer from an incredibly low sense of society and are trained to be ruthlessly individualistic. As always the beginnings were promising: privatizations made a part of the transition generation rich, the older workers were protected, and early migrants were probably more help than trouble. The 90’s were good, esp. since the accumulated Eastern wealth was generously doled out.

    It no longer works: you can issue a lot of money backed by nothing, but eventually the numbers don’t work. The pyramid nature of the new capitalism created 1-2 rich generations, but it impoverishing the kids and grandkids. The open borders-mass migration-cheap labor mania has reached absurd levels – look at the US southern border.

    The elites are stuck – lowering living standards is risky, although they can count on the accumulated stupidity after decades of heavy propaganda. It takes 20-30 years for people to start acting in their self-interest – we are almost there. Maybe having a war is better :)…or Greta…

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    It takes 20-30 years for people to start acting in their self-interest – we are almost there.
     
    Yes but most poor Westmids believe in democracy. So they will try to fix it democratically for a generation and then they would look around and see that the Great Replacement has been completed, the Great Reset is done and "they own nothing and have to be happy".

    And even if all Westmids turned "full Anglin" and accelerationist, what would they do against the Technosphere and the 0,01 % that can drone them to death and cut them from their CBDC bank accounts (in that order).

    🙂

    Time to move on. The Great White World is about to be terminated. And it happened not because the Russkies invaded from beyond the horizon in tank columns, but because the men of the West got complacent, have been betrayed by their women and sold out down the river by (((their))) elites.

    And now there are talks of UFOs ! That's even a better distraction than war in Ukraine or Greta the Green.

    https://youtu.be/XCbAEkfXSDE

    Who could have thought that this gender neutral guy was such a genius and a prophet (I wouldn't like to find out just who was it that whispered the lyrics to his ear).

    😏

    Anyway, the Future belongs to those who survive, not to those who lament.

    Bonne Saint Valentin à tous !

    ♥️♥️♥️
  113. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    I was reading a couple Russian Telegram channels that write about these new camps and also about Lukashenko telling that the time is approaching when Belarus will have to take a side in this conflict, that the decision must be made shortly.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @sudden death

    Just an intuitive guess with no required evidence about troop movements specifics – imho, all those lukashenkian dances with military drums, at the same time adding weasealisms like “it must be done without harming our sovereign interests”, more likely are meant to keep suspense increasing and therefore notable UA reserves at the north too, while not letting transfer them into east/south where the main RF action may come, but without any RB involvement.

    But we”ll se soon as spring is just two weeks away…

    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @sudden death


    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.
     
    It seems that it is more about numerology than anything else - Russian invasion started on 8th anniversary of the beginning of conflict from Feb 2014.

    Poland effectively closed its Belarussian border on on Friday, allegedly because Belarus sentenced the only member of Polish minority there I ever hear, Andrzej Poczobut, to prison. Now this is surely useful for Belarussian propaganda.
    This guy seems to have inherited his position from his father, which suggests some continuity in Soviet nomenclature even in "opposition" circles. Maybe he just plays his role - I lost sympathy to him when I heard that he refused presidential pardon from Lukashenko. Now, if you oppose regime to such an extent, why do you insist on being in Belarus, and in prison for that? But he of course refuses offers of emigration too.
    , @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Even more open weasealing out of potential offensive together with RF from Lukashenko today - said that will fight alongside only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB;)

    https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2023/02/16/lukashenko-zayavil-o-gotovnosti-voevat-vmeste-s-rossiey-no-pri-odnom-uslovii

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

  114. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Mikel

    Was right on near everything about Putin's invasion so far, but made a horrible and fatal calculation for Afghanistan: that anti-Taliban forces might actually try and fight. Everyone should have known that Afghans don't really fight, they either hide and set bombs/traps, or they instantly fold and switch to whichever they think is the stronger side, but this was extreme.

    That's not to characterise them as lacking courage, as their methods require immense courage sometimes, but it is so totally different from the European paradigm that even someone occasionally accused of racism could not imagine it.

    Well, lesson learned. But if I am guilty of extrapolating from Europeans to Afghans, most here are guilty of extrapolating from Afghans to Eastern Slavs.

    We live we learn. One error over 10 days can be learned from, but it seems a thousand errors over a year somehow cannot.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Wokechoke

    You predicted an intractable guerilla war and a Russian occupation.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    Yes, if the Russian invasion didn't fail completely, as it has. I began the war too negative on Ukraine and presented a worst case option. Given that I was talking to people who thought Russian was winning a decisive victory, when it was flailing around, this was a sensible way of hedging my bets.

    See what I did with Lukashenko and the Belarussians supposedly invading Ukraine. It was the same back then.

  115. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    All I asked was if that’s what you truly believe or it’s just your wishful thinking.
     
    Why would I wish for others becoming engulfed in violence and suffering ? No sane person would. I am a fool, but I am not a sociopath.

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.
     
    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end. Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.

    Dream on.
     
    Again, why would I dream for something so vile ? Do I come accross in my comments as someone who would like to see other people suffering?

    But one has to be logical and consequential, follow the dots: Baltics are in NATO and quite close to Kaliningrad and Belarus. If Belarus is dragged into the war, then the violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.

    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other. I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members. But the West has its own problems. The West might well decide to leave the Balto-Slav sort it out. If I was Western I would not want my people to die for the Suwalki Gap. Just like I don't want the Balto-Slav that I consider as my people to die in retarded wars under Western patronage.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end.

    They determine that and they have been explicit about it. They and their friends never wanted this war, they were attacked on their territory.

    Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.

    Who was? Was I ever?

    If Belarus is dragged into the war

    Belarus has gone out of her way to not be dragged into it, but Belarus, unfortunately, is a party to the war by providing Russia with the platform to bomb Ukraine. The Belarusians do not want to fight Ukrainians and vice versa, that’s one of the vilest things I can imagine, but if the Belarusians decide to fight with troops, they will receive it back accordingly. They will be hit on their territory. Their army is not large and has zero experience.

    violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.

    Violence can spill either way. When you go this far, with such an aggressive war, it can spill in the other direction than what you imagine (or desire?). When you mess with borders and deliberately break them, you make them fluid. It can go either way.

    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other.

    That’s just not true. It would be a war with NATO. But it will not go that far.

    I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members.

    You don’t know this because you only read your Telegram channels, but the normal Europeans are very angry.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    That’s disingenuous. None of us wanted a war like this. If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.
     
    But I did. I wrote about the "patriotic pensioners" using this war as a compensation mechanism for their neurotic complexes. But they are not the only ones. Борьба была ровна - боролись два г☆вна...

    Anyway, you know that I like you LatW. No need to go full Latvian Rifelman on me for pointing some of your evident and natural biases.

    Bonne Saint Valentin ma belle !

    🙂

    Replies: @LatW

  116. @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool

    Just an intuitive guess with no required evidence about troop movements specifics - imho, all those lukashenkian dances with military drums, at the same time adding weasealisms like "it must be done without harming our sovereign interests", more likely are meant to keep suspense increasing and therefore notable UA reserves at the north too, while not letting transfer them into east/south where the main RF action may come, but without any RB involvement.

    But we''ll se soon as spring is just two weeks away...

    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @sudden death

    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.

    It seems that it is more about numerology than anything else – Russian invasion started on 8th anniversary of the beginning of conflict from Feb 2014.

    Poland effectively closed its Belarussian border on on Friday, allegedly because Belarus sentenced the only member of Polish minority there I ever hear, Andrzej Poczobut, to prison. Now this is surely useful for Belarussian propaganda.
    This guy seems to have inherited his position from his father, which suggests some continuity in Soviet nomenclature even in “opposition” circles. Maybe he just plays his role – I lost sympathy to him when I heard that he refused presidential pardon from Lukashenko. Now, if you oppose regime to such an extent, why do you insist on being in Belarus, and in prison for that? But he of course refuses offers of emigration too.

  117. @Beckow
    @Ivashka the fool


    ...The Westmids only existed in high numbers because the Western system needed being more attractive than the Soviet one (an easy task). As soon as the Cold War ended...the elites started putting pressure on the Westmids. Mass immigration and the rise of Alphabet People and the “minorities” are tools used to bring the Westmids down
     
    Precisely...Sic transit gloria mundi…

    Westmids' (let's use it) best friend was Stalin and the commies: the fear in the Western elite after WW2 made them give and give: incomes up, nice neighborhoods, assured jobs if you behaved, good culture, travel, goodies, etc...

    They only needed to do it as long as the commie threat existed - by the late 70's when the commies went lame, the first 'reforms' started. The usual suspects, French, Italian, even Germans, resisted at the beginning and were left alone. The Anglos led the way; they suffer from an incredibly low sense of society and are trained to be ruthlessly individualistic. As always the beginnings were promising: privatizations made a part of the transition generation rich, the older workers were protected, and early migrants were probably more help than trouble. The 90's were good, esp. since the accumulated Eastern wealth was generously doled out.

    It no longer works: you can issue a lot of money backed by nothing, but eventually the numbers don't work. The pyramid nature of the new capitalism created 1-2 rich generations, but it impoverishing the kids and grandkids. The open borders-mass migration-cheap labor mania has reached absurd levels - look at the US southern border.

    The elites are stuck - lowering living standards is risky, although they can count on the accumulated stupidity after decades of heavy propaganda. It takes 20-30 years for people to start acting in their self-interest - we are almost there. Maybe having a war is better :)...or Greta...

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    It takes 20-30 years for people to start acting in their self-interest – we are almost there.

    Yes but most poor Westmids believe in democracy. So they will try to fix it democratically for a generation and then they would look around and see that the Great Replacement has been completed, the Great Reset is done and “they own nothing and have to be happy”.

    And even if all Westmids turned “full Anglin” and accelerationist, what would they do against the Technosphere and the 0,01 % that can drone them to death and cut them from their CBDC bank accounts (in that order).

    🙂

    Time to move on. The Great White World is about to be terminated. And it happened not because the Russkies invaded from beyond the horizon in tank columns, but because the men of the West got complacent, have been betrayed by their women and sold out down the river by (((their))) elites.

    And now there are talks of UFOs ! That’s even a better distraction than war in Ukraine or Greta the Green.

    Who could have thought that this gender neutral guy was such a genius and a prophet (I wouldn’t like to find out just who was it that whispered the lyrics to his ear).

    😏

    Anyway, the Future belongs to those who survive, not to those who lament.

    Bonne Saint Valentin à tous !

    ♥️♥️♥️

  118. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    You in March:


    How are they going to rebuilt military assets if Russia can blow anything that comes in? You can’t hide planes, air fields, artillery or missiles. Go for it, but unless you have some magical way to protect it, it will be a sitting duck
     
    Russia has not yet even achieved air superiority now!

    You arguing that Ukraine was surrendering a year ago:

    Do you really believe that Ukraine will win this militarily? At best they will negotiate terms of surrender – Ze. is already starting.

    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of *insert some completely ignorant argument about how commodities are the global economy and everything else is financial engineering.* Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.

    And I don't know what you were smoking when you wrote this absurd fantasy:

    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time. (Galicia is a possible exception that makes no strategic difference.)


    – “Nazis” in Kiev are running away for their lives or dying. Zelensky is not a Nazi, he has nothing to fear other than the West or Nazis deciding that he has more value as a martyr. No rest for the wicked as they say.

    As for me, I admitted I was wrong. I then explained why my imagination was lacking. And I endeavoured not to make the same mistake again. I did this with my one mistake, immediately, and have expanded my range of possible assumptions since, so that I am not again shocked by the extremity of Afghan behaviour.

    Meanwhile, you just ignore, deflect, devalue and never learn your way out of everything. Indeed, you can't even seem to admit that you have been wrong, despite being wrong near every day, in every way, on this subject for an entire year!

    You can call my method feminine if you like, and yours masculine, but that association will not be good for you.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Why are you so obsessed w fighting a straw-man? You misrepresent what I write and then you argue with it. What’s the point? Dont you a better way to argue your side? Let’s get real, I wrote:

    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time.

    Nato is gone. If you haven’t noticed we went from an almost certain Nato in Ukraine (I have described why many times), on Russia’s borders with missiles-bases, to Nato lamely sending arms to outnumbered Ukies and losing the war. There is no chance of Ukraine in 1991 borders in Nato – it was almost certain before the war. You will deny, lie about the plans and intentions, blab nonsense about ‘but it was postponed’…but you know that is a lie. More importantly Russians believed it was happening. At this point, Kiev would have to win the war decisively for Nato to come back. Arms, slogans, decorations and verbal support, even a mini-Nato in Galicia, don’t count – they are an order of magnitude less significant that what was going happen.

    Ze. was negotiating in March what was a de facto surrender – so again I was right. He was told to cut it out, a decision he will probably come to regret. And lots of people run away – literally millions, why would you deny that?

    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of….Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.

    I was not, you are making it up (you couldn’t even find a quote remotely saying that). I said the war will slow down the Western economies – and it did: 2023 official projection of EU is 0.6% growth, UK 0.1%, Germany 0.3% – the numbers are squishy since the min positives are achieved by under-stating inflation (easy thing to do)

    I remember everyone predicting Russia’s economy collapse and it didn’t happen, its GNP dropped by 3%. For 2023 IMF has Russia growing 0.3% – better than Germany or UK.

    The real collapse happened in Ukraine, 30% down (some of it lost lands, but no a big part).

    Overall you prefer to create a straw-man to discussing reality or what others say. You may also be the last person who pushes the ‘Russia blew up North Stream’, but whatever. The war has tipped in Russia’s favor, I don’t see a realistic Ukie response (maybe you do). But for the sake decency don’t misrepresent what others say. If you like to argue w yourself, why are you here?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    How are you trying to argue that you've not been wrong all year? You're bizarre! This shows where I get people wrong. I understand they have their insecurities, but I always struggle to imagine how controlling those insecurities can be of them. Unfortunately, I am not constitutionally built to get it. Just to see the best in them and point the way.

    For everyone else, those who want a profoundly credible account of how the war is being fought on the front lines, here's an American professional recounting his 10 months. For those who know anything about this subject, his words will be extremely revealing and probably confirming.

    For those, like Beckow, for whom they were always right, and everything is just as planned, devalue the guy all you want, but his account is measured and detailed, rather than vague and bombastic.

    https://podcastaddict.com/episode/153032226

    Replies: @Beckow

  119. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end.
     
    They determine that and they have been explicit about it. They and their friends never wanted this war, they were attacked on their territory.


    Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.
     
    Who was? Was I ever?

    If Belarus is dragged into the war
     
    Belarus has gone out of her way to not be dragged into it, but Belarus, unfortunately, is a party to the war by providing Russia with the platform to bomb Ukraine. The Belarusians do not want to fight Ukrainians and vice versa, that's one of the vilest things I can imagine, but if the Belarusians decide to fight with troops, they will receive it back accordingly. They will be hit on their territory. Their army is not large and has zero experience.

    violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.
     
    Violence can spill either way. When you go this far, with such an aggressive war, it can spill in the other direction than what you imagine (or desire?). When you mess with borders and deliberately break them, you make them fluid. It can go either way.


    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other.
     
    That's just not true. It would be a war with NATO. But it will not go that far.

    I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members.

     

    You don't know this because you only read your Telegram channels, but the normal Europeans are very angry.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    That's disingenuous. None of us wanted a war like this. If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.

    But I did. I wrote about the “patriotic pensioners” using this war as a compensation mechanism for their neurotic complexes. But they are not the only ones. Борьба была ровна – боролись два г☆вна…

    Anyway, you know that I like you LatW. No need to go full Latvian Rifelman on me for pointing some of your evident and natural biases.

    Bonne Saint Valentin ma belle !

    🙂

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool

    Toi aussi!

  120. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Why are you so obsessed w fighting a straw-man? You misrepresent what I write and then you argue with it. What's the point? Dont you a better way to argue your side? Let's get real, I wrote:


    2-3 days into the fight, the results so far:
    – NATO is gone. It run away and it is unlikely back for a long time.
     
    Nato is gone. If you haven't noticed we went from an almost certain Nato in Ukraine (I have described why many times), on Russia's borders with missiles-bases, to Nato lamely sending arms to outnumbered Ukies and losing the war. There is no chance of Ukraine in 1991 borders in Nato - it was almost certain before the war. You will deny, lie about the plans and intentions, blab nonsense about 'but it was postponed'...but you know that is a lie. More importantly Russians believed it was happening. At this point, Kiev would have to win the war decisively for Nato to come back. Arms, slogans, decorations and verbal support, even a mini-Nato in Galicia, don't count - they are an order of magnitude less significant that what was going happen.

    Ze. was negotiating in March what was a de facto surrender - so again I was right. He was told to cut it out, a decision he will probably come to regret. And lots of people run away - literally millions, why would you deny that?


    You were also predicting the total economic collapse of the West because of....Meanwhile, the Russian economy went into a serious recession in 2022 and the West did not.
     
    I was not, you are making it up (you couldn't even find a quote remotely saying that). I said the war will slow down the Western economies - and it did: 2023 official projection of EU is 0.6% growth, UK 0.1%, Germany 0.3% - the numbers are squishy since the min positives are achieved by under-stating inflation (easy thing to do)

    I remember everyone predicting Russia's economy collapse and it didn't happen, its GNP dropped by 3%. For 2023 IMF has Russia growing 0.3% - better than Germany or UK.

    The real collapse happened in Ukraine, 30% down (some of it lost lands, but no a big part).

    Overall you prefer to create a straw-man to discussing reality or what others say. You may also be the last person who pushes the 'Russia blew up North Stream', but whatever. The war has tipped in Russia's favor, I don't see a realistic Ukie response (maybe you do). But for the sake decency don't misrepresent what others say. If you like to argue w yourself, why are you here?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    How are you trying to argue that you’ve not been wrong all year? You’re bizarre! This shows where I get people wrong. I understand they have their insecurities, but I always struggle to imagine how controlling those insecurities can be of them. Unfortunately, I am not constitutionally built to get it. Just to see the best in them and point the way.

    For everyone else, those who want a profoundly credible account of how the war is being fought on the front lines, here’s an American professional recounting his 10 months. For those who know anything about this subject, his words will be extremely revealing and probably confirming.

    For those, like Beckow, for whom they were always right, and everything is just as planned, devalue the guy all you want, but his account is measured and detailed, rather than vague and bombastic.

    https://podcastaddict.com/episode/153032226

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Your emotional mumbo-jumbo is an admission that you lost the argument. Nobody cares about your pop-psychology. You just make a fool of yourself.

    The points I made were substantial and you didn't address them. When you lose, you run, it must be the Anglo thing. Russia's economy didn't collapse and the Western one slowed down. Russia squashed any realistic plan of Ukraine in Nato - and as of now, Russia is winning the war: 20% of territory, initiative, Ukies' terrible casualties...

    You are unable to address it so you hide behind happy talk 'Kiev is winning'. It seems an Anglo affliction - you can't accept 'losing' and you will make up things, create myths, lie, anything but face reality. It is your 'marketing' identity - you are always selling something...

  121. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    You predicted an intractable guerilla war and a Russian occupation.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Yes, if the Russian invasion didn’t fail completely, as it has. I began the war too negative on Ukraine and presented a worst case option. Given that I was talking to people who thought Russian was winning a decisive victory, when it was flailing around, this was a sensible way of hedging my bets.

    See what I did with Lukashenko and the Belarussians supposedly invading Ukraine. It was the same back then.

  122. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300

    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.

    From what I remember, thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage, recently in Halden.

    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium (in such a case we wouldn't build them at all) - clearly we could have a couple of military reactors and the rest of them running on thorium.

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300

    What full scale (not lab scale) Thorium reactor was discontinued in the U.S.?
    ____

    THTR was a mixed solid U235 + Thorium “Pebble Bed Reactor” [PBR]. This has huge disadvantages versus LFTR. For example, the thorium cycle produces gases such as krypton. The LFTR can shed these gas from the operating fluid. Solid pebbles cannot. There were also science errors in the design of the pebble — small & light enough to escape the bed.

    Ultimately, the German THTR was killed by the German Green party for political reasons. However, the poor choice & design of PBR plus related economics made it a pretty easy target for a take down.

    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.

    I do not remember news about an issue. It was a limited duration experimental scale system. (1)

    In one fell swoop, thorium fuel, which is safer, less messy to clean up, and not prone to nuclear weapons proliferation, could quench the complaints of nuclear power critics everywhere.

    By mixing thorium oxide with 10% plutonium oxide, however, criticality is achieved. This fuel, which is called thorium-MOX (mixed-oxide), can then be formed into rods and used in conventional nuclear reactors. Not only does this mean that we can do away with uranium, which is expensive to enrich, dangerous, and leads to nuclear proliferation, but it also means that we finally have an easy way of recycling plutonium. Furthermore, the thorium-MOX fuel cycle produces no new plutonium; it actually reduces the world’s stock of plutonium. Oh, thorium-MOX makes for safer nuclear reactors, too, due to a higher melting point and thermal conductivity.

    Thorium-MOX, in short, is about as exciting as it gets in the nuclear power industry. Before it can be used, though, Thor Energy needs to make sure that the thorium fuel cycle is fully understood. To do this, the company has built a small test reactor in the Norwegian town of Halden, where rods of thorium-MOX provide steam to a nearby paper mill. This reactor will run for five years, after which the fuel will be analyzed to see if it’s ready for commercial reactors

    My understanding is that it completed it limited period test and concluded as expected.

    If a major warhead decrease is in the cards, this concept could return. However, that seems unlikely in this geopolitical era. Without “free” plutonium, the economics of the Norwegian test did not warrant commercialization.

    thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage

    I am not sure where you got this bit of crazy from, but it is not scientifically sound. You have been mislead or deceived.

    Clean FLiBe salt can be handled with modern materials in the Hastelloy series. Removing unwanted fission products is included in every serious LFTR proposal. Incidentally, this also reconditions the FLiBe salt back to its optimum clean state.

    LCTR fast neutron reactor concepts do exist in the literature, however the chloride salts are more problematic versus their fluoride brethren. Liquid lead seems to be the most attractive option for this route if desired. A few nutters, funded by GE, promote liquid sodium PRISM. Guess who owns the PRISM design? Could it be GE?

    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors

    There has been no repeated mothballing. Again, you have been mislead or deceived.

    There has been only one commercial scale retirement. And, it was a poorly chosen & executed solid fuel design. Thus, not insightful to the LFTR concept.

    cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium

    The military used cold war muscle to kill the early, government funded, LFTR work at ORNL and a few other locations. This kill shot was based on poor science, but it happened nonetheless in the quest for weapons grade plutonium.

    After that, the problem was more bureaucracy than military. All of the civilian laws & regulations had the U235 fuel cycle as a built in assumption. How would a thorium breeder be certified for operation when the rules expect something different? The red tape made it impossible. Also, all of the industry experts had a vested interest in keeping upstart competitors at bay.

    The desire for Small Modular Reactors [SMR] forced the regulators to open their committees to new ideas. And, LFTR is an excellent SMR option due to passive safety.

    You can read much more here:

    https://energyfromthorium.com/lftr-overview/

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/160131-thorium-nuclear-reactor-trial-begins-could-provide-cleaner-safer-almost-waste-free-energy

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones...

    The Halden incident was heavily covered-up when it happened. I remember reading on it in real time on some French site (in English though) monitoring radiation, which claimed it was about thorium.

    The official news from Oct 2016 avoid for some strange reason (lobbying, perhaps) any characterization of "fuel", but make clear that it was a fuel problem:

    https://www-news.iaea.org/ErfView.aspx?mId=8566e7fd-88e6-458c-b487-d51dde9b1049

    We can get it was thorium because the experiment started in Jul 2016:

    http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/news/second-thorium-fuel-test-round-started

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure.

    Replies: @A123

  123. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Beckow

    How are you trying to argue that you've not been wrong all year? You're bizarre! This shows where I get people wrong. I understand they have their insecurities, but I always struggle to imagine how controlling those insecurities can be of them. Unfortunately, I am not constitutionally built to get it. Just to see the best in them and point the way.

    For everyone else, those who want a profoundly credible account of how the war is being fought on the front lines, here's an American professional recounting his 10 months. For those who know anything about this subject, his words will be extremely revealing and probably confirming.

    For those, like Beckow, for whom they were always right, and everything is just as planned, devalue the guy all you want, but his account is measured and detailed, rather than vague and bombastic.

    https://podcastaddict.com/episode/153032226

    Replies: @Beckow

    Your emotional mumbo-jumbo is an admission that you lost the argument. Nobody cares about your pop-psychology. You just make a fool of yourself.

    The points I made were substantial and you didn’t address them. When you lose, you run, it must be the Anglo thing. Russia’s economy didn’t collapse and the Western one slowed down. Russia squashed any realistic plan of Ukraine in Nato – and as of now, Russia is winning the war: 20% of territory, initiative, Ukies’ terrible casualties…

    You are unable to address it so you hide behind happy talk ‘Kiev is winning’. It seems an Anglo affliction – you can’t accept ‘losing’ and you will make up things, create myths, lie, anything but face reality. It is your ‘marketing’ identity – you are always selling something…

    • Disagree: Leaves No Shadow
  124. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    If you were consistent and honest, you would have decried the vatniks for supporting it.
     
    But I did. I wrote about the "patriotic pensioners" using this war as a compensation mechanism for their neurotic complexes. But they are not the only ones. Борьба была ровна - боролись два г☆вна...

    Anyway, you know that I like you LatW. No need to go full Latvian Rifelman on me for pointing some of your evident and natural biases.

    Bonne Saint Valentin ma belle !

    🙂

    Replies: @LatW

    Toi aussi!

  125. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    innocent” prompt that “a Fool” would bring up
     
    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : "when you don't think a lot becomes clearer". 😉

    Poles would not be alone. Our forces would intervene only at the very end and only if needed.
     
    Yeah, I know. That's the plan.

    It looks like Mykola will do all of the work for us.
     
    Taras, Gritsko and Mykola do not come in unlimited supply. Sooner rather than later, a war of attrition would lead to its logical consequences - the need for the Western backers to either fold or intervene.

    Being the simple-minded fool that I am, I believe Westerners would prefer seeing the Eastern Europeans "do the job for them", just like you would prefer it being done by "Mykola". Any Eastern European killed is one less to neuter or euthanize during the coming population bottleneck.

    I call it the Final Solution to the Slav Problem - FSSP, we could add the Baltic people to the mix, given that they seem eager to participate. Let's make it FSBSP for inclusivity's sake. 🙂

    Replies: @LatW, @Mr. Hack

    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”.

    I urge you to follow your own advice here. The war between Ukraine and Russia is not really all that complicated, and there’s really no reason to look for answers and causes within elaborately made up conspiracy theories etc. Believe me, it is what it looks like. You have a disgruntled player in this war (Russia) that thought that it had an invincible army, and that it was losing Ukraine to the West, and that this was the last optimal time to attack and subdue Ukraine and bring it back into the fold. How was Ukraine to react to this provocation? Quietly acquiesce to Russia’s brazen invasion, in order to maximize good Slavic DNA for future generations, while handing over the keys to its house to a really lousy neighbor?

    • Agree: Yahya, Leaves No Shadow, AP
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    I don't know if they (Russian Politicos) reckon themselves to be invincible. They did expect a coup in Kiev and then to hide under their nuclear umbrella if things go wrong.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    Exactly. You said it better than I could.

    And meek acquiescence to the status of dhimmitude at the hands of track-suited Chechen gangsters under their Muscovite khan wouldn’t be a good demonstration of the fitness of the DNA they are supposed to be preserving.

    The steadfast stubbornness in defending one’s families and homes from the invader reflects a universally positive attribute that is very noble in nature, despite the situation itself being horrible.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr Hack, simple-minded doesn't mean stupid.

    😄

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  126. Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous “White Women” and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about…..food! (The politics here can’t get any sillier lol).

    Since returning from my trip I’ve become obsessed with Thai food, and to a lesser extent Japanese food. I’ve always enjoyed Thai food, but was never really that interested in it for some reason. I always preferred Indian food.

    What is hitting me right now about Asian food is it’s intense umami flavor – I don’t know why that’s hitting me hard now. I mean, I love Italian, French, Arabic food, but something about the sheer intensity of Asian food right now is really hitting home. Maybe it’s just a phase.

    Also, in the past few years there has been a revolution in ingredient availability – off Amazon, you can get all the Thai sauces you see street vendors use straight from Thailand. And, it turns out, these dishes are incredibly easy to make!

    The intense, complex flavor appears to come not from some subtle skill in mixing diverse ingredients (well, some dishes do), but largely from the process of fermentation – which is really just aging and bio organisms, which I like. It’s Nature. (some skill in mixing ingredients is called for).

    For instance, one of the best and most iconic Thai dishes that everyone loves – basil stir fry – only has garlic and chillies, then a sauce composed of fish sauce, oyster sauce, soy sauce, and sugar, and basil.(and your choice of meat).

    But the fermented fish sauce, oyster sauce, and even soy sauce – has incredible intensity and complexity developed through the process of natural aging.

    Japanese beef gyudon, which is thinly sliced fatty beef simmered, on rice, uses just soy sauce, mirin, and fish stock. But the incredible fermentation of the fish stock, the wine, the soy – it does everything!

    Japanese ginger pork, another incredible dish, uses just ginger, mirin, and soy sauce – yet what deep, complex, intense flavor.

    To be sure, much good Italian food is also incredibly simple and uses just a few really good ingredients. Or a good aged Spanish chorizo is just pork, garlic and paprika and salt. Simple! And what is Reggiano Parmesano but just beautifully fermented milk?

    It seems that the process of aging is what makes human food incredibly deep and rich and complex – cooperating with nature, as it were. Maybe that’s why processed industrial food is so awful – it doesn’t let nature do it’s thing?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I've been a big fan of Thai food for at least 15 years, and before that Chinese and Vietnamese. I've probably been to at least half of all of the Thai restaurants in the Phoenix area (and that's saying a lot!). I really enjoy Thai curry dishes, but am also quite acquainted with their eggplant and more "umami" type of dishes too (have you ever tasted Thai "Tom Kha Gai" soup? the only soup that gives Ukrainian borshch a run for the money, yum!). Covid put the quash on one of m favorite Thai restaurants here, closing their all you can eat buffet. $12.95 for a trip to culinary heaven. I think of you whenever I put some curry powder in my boiling white rice - thanks for the tip! :-)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous “White Women” and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about…..food! (The politics here can’t get any sillier lol).
     
    Treacherous (((White))) women !

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Emma_Goldman_seated.jpg

    🙂

    And it is not politics but anthropology!

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/article/abs/gumilev-mystique-biopolitics-eurasianism-and-the-construction-of-community-in-modern-russia-by-mark-bassin-ithaca-cornell-university-press-2016-xiv-380-pp-bibliography-index-8995-hard-bound-2995-paper/39EA530150C55D0E65816A5AAE6E9E96

    Read that while you munch on your gefilte fish.

    😏

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the fermented fish sauce
     
    was very popular in ancient Roman cuisine, and was known as garum.

    It is amazing how our taste palette has changed since that time, despite living in similar environment/climate to ancient Romans.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  127. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300

    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.

    From what I remember, thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage, recently in Halden.

    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium (in such a case we wouldn't build them at all) - clearly we could have a couple of military reactors and the rest of them running on thorium.

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    I think these experiments were dropped for political reasons, not technical.

    +++

    The “fizzle” was 22 kT, not exactly hopeless.

    IIRC, the original idea for the MSRE was to remove most all of the protactinum-232 continuously from the salt bath to to improve neutron economy by avoiding losses on protactinum in the reactor. This removal was demonstrated during the experiment. The removed material decays into U-233 which is returned to the reactor as the fuel. But during this stage it exists outside the reactor as high purity U-233 which could be diverted. I think it has less U-232 than material bred in a conventional reactor and the critical mass is lower than U-235. There is low spontaneous neutron generation so a small gun-type bomb could be made, much simpler than an implosion design. This is the story I read.

    The ways to address this issue include good security control over the extracted U-233 (high trust society), set up a process that denatures it immediately or design a reactor that does not remove the Pa-232 from the reactor. I think the last is the route chosen for new designs, but the reactor design is less “elegant”.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @QCIC

    Oops. Should have written protactinium-233/ pa-233 instead of 232. :(

  128. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”.
     
    I urge you to follow your own advice here. The war between Ukraine and Russia is not really all that complicated, and there's really no reason to look for answers and causes within elaborately made up conspiracy theories etc. Believe me, it is what it looks like. You have a disgruntled player in this war (Russia) that thought that it had an invincible army, and that it was losing Ukraine to the West, and that this was the last optimal time to attack and subdue Ukraine and bring it back into the fold. How was Ukraine to react to this provocation? Quietly acquiesce to Russia's brazen invasion, in order to maximize good Slavic DNA for future generations, while handing over the keys to its house to a really lousy neighbor?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    I don’t know if they (Russian Politicos) reckon themselves to be invincible. They did expect a coup in Kiev and then to hide under their nuclear umbrella if things go wrong.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Wokechoke

    If true, pretty stupid planning - look what a mess that they're in today.

  129. @QCIC
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think these experiments were dropped for political reasons, not technical.

    +++

    The "fizzle" was 22 kT, not exactly hopeless.

    IIRC, the original idea for the MSRE was to remove most all of the protactinum-232 continuously from the salt bath to to improve neutron economy by avoiding losses on protactinum in the reactor. This removal was demonstrated during the experiment. The removed material decays into U-233 which is returned to the reactor as the fuel. But during this stage it exists outside the reactor as high purity U-233 which could be diverted. I think it has less U-232 than material bred in a conventional reactor and the critical mass is lower than U-235. There is low spontaneous neutron generation so a small gun-type bomb could be made, much simpler than an implosion design. This is the story I read.

    The ways to address this issue include good security control over the extracted U-233 (high trust society), set up a process that denatures it immediately or design a reactor that does not remove the Pa-232 from the reactor. I think the last is the route chosen for new designs, but the reactor design is less "elegant".

    Replies: @QCIC

    Oops. Should have written protactinium-233/ pa-233 instead of 232. 🙁

  130. @Beckow
    @AP


    This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.
     
    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it. Just remember, attempting a genocide of an ethnic group is a crime and trying it against a larger, stronger group usually doesn't work. The enthusiasts will face consequences.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers....
     
    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k "IT workers" in the Lviv region, around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages. It has some research, but the overall impact on the Ukrainian economy is very marginal, 2-3%, a lot less than in other EE countries. $3k, are you kidding? that's what a good barista makes.

    That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.
     
    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that. You live in a lala-land of your retarded slogans.

    1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.
     
    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria...all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you? How can you simply gloss over it? That shows dishonesty and hypocrisy so deep that none of your statements mean much.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that - a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes. That's why being right on the border in close proximity and having the Russia-hating Ukies ready was so important. At a minimum it would keep Russia powerless. You want that, so you, but naturally Russia doesn't want it.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine. You make no sense when you try to compare Finland (or Estonia) to Ukraine. Think before you write nonsense.


    Nato never moved forward is more meaningful than their empty declarations year after year.
     
    The 'not meaningful' and 'empty' was not the way it was presented - that is your desperate spin. It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity - if you don't get that you are too naive. At least argue reality and not silly evasive narratives. If you think that 'territorial conflict' would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else. What matters is the intent, not how exactly Nato would do it. People who deny it are not serious or idiots.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine unless Kiev wins the war in a big way. Nato will feed the conflict, but probably not join in. After Ukies are bled and surrender large parts of their country, Nato will pontificate but stay out. Russia with the war changed the strategic balance.

    Replies: @AP

    “This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.”

    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it

    Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people; ethnic Ukrainian kids are learning in their own language now.

    Russia is erasing towns and thousands of Russian-speaking people.

    An honest person would admit which action is closer to genocide.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers….

    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k “IT workers” in the Lviv region

    It has increased since the war as companies have moved from places like Kharkiv and many more of Ukraine’s 200,000 IT workers have transferred to Lviv:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/business/ukraine-tech-companies-putin.html

    The entire country of Slovakia only has 28k such workers:

    https://www.itminions.be/en/blog/slovakia-tech-talent-goldmine

    around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages

    “Call center work” isn’t IT customer support.

    $3k, are you kidding? that’s what a good barista makes

    The average wage in Slovakia is less than a thousand Euros per month. So those 35,000 + new arrivals programmers in Lviv are making 3 times the average Slovak wage per month, in a city with a very low cost of living. They are living quite well.

    Average German wage is about the same as the average Lviv programmer wage.

    And programmers in Bratislava make no more than do programmers in Lviv:

    http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=2226&loctype=3&job=3&jobtype=2

    Given the Lviv us cheaper, the guys in Lviv do better than their Slovak colleagues.

    “That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.”

    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that

    1. That was started by Russians when they crossed the border into Ukraine with their volunteers and weapons. Girkin and Pavlov weren’t Ukrainians.

    2. The Russian mass invasion and murder spree began in 2022, 7 years after 2015. Its already a separate event.

    “1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.”

    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

    A difference between NATO and Russia is that Russia kills far more Slavs though.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that – a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes

    No one is touching obnoxious but tiny North Korea, and everyone tolerates it’s missile overflies over places like Japan. But you think NATO would dare invade Russia?

    NATO would forever keep Russia’s hands off Ukraine. This is why Russia doesn’t want NATO there. It wants to reabsorb Ukraine. NATO itself is secondary to the main problem for Russia, which is the eternal loss of Ukraine. Russia would seek to end Ukraine even when – as was the case prior to invasion – NATO membership was very unlikely.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine

    Now you’ve slipped and admitted that the problem wasn’t exactly NATO, but Ukraine.

    Finns btw don’t like Russia either and have stronger claims on Russian territory than Ukrainians do. You keep bringing up Volyn from 80 years ago but now you’ve conveniently forgotten what Finland had been up to at that time.

    It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity

    Like in 2008? No war then and Yushchenko was president. But it didn’t happen. Nor did it in every year since then.

    If you think that ‘territorial conflict’ would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else

    Your type like to conveniently change your story. First you brag about how by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia has blocked Ukraine from getting into NATO. Brilliant chess move by Putin! But now when you need a pending NATO membership as an excuse for a full invasion and attempt at regime change, that becomes irrelevant.

    Your hypocrisy and mendacity on display again and as usual. It also shows how undignified it is, to always lick the Russian boot as you do.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine

    NATO is more in Ukraine now than it ever has been.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    There's now a case to be made, after the confirmation of the NS2 bombing that this entire war caper is designed to make sure Germany and Russia form no grand strategic alliance. You sound like a Pollack in 1938. The world didn't revolve around the clucking Polish back then and it doesn't revolve around posturing Ukrainians today. Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    , @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people
     
    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people...are you completely mental? Do you have even a very basic concept of how human rights work? There is also that pesky EU value of 'minorities protection'...Brussels is trying to look the other way, but it will come back as a big issue. Just stop supporting genocide, is that so hard?

    ...."Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?"

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

     

    Do you understand that actions have consequences? Nato killed hundreds of thousands, attacked half a dozen countries in the last 25 years and you try to walk away from it. It doesn't work that way. If you don't understand it you could be a psychopath - a person who tries top compartmentalize his side's crimes into a silo and obsessively focuses only on the misdeeds by the other side. It is a dishonest and losing position. You own the Nato wars, bombings, etc...so do the Ukies, they worship Nato.

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your "5%" chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade. I would remind you that any security force in any self-respecting country (US? UK?) would take anything over 15-20% seriously - this was over 50% likely and they moved to stop it. Don't pretend that you don't understand.

    It is also obvious that with the war (Kiev will likely lose) the chance of Ukraine in Nato dropped dramatically - a small Galician Nato is not the same level threat. I will give one concession: it is, as these things often are, a chicken-and-egg situation: Russia with its concerns (paranoia?) and actions fed it from the other side. In their defense, they live there - the Washington and London neo-cons don't plan to...

    Replies: @AP

  131. @Wokechoke
    @Mr. Hack

    I don't know if they (Russian Politicos) reckon themselves to be invincible. They did expect a coup in Kiev and then to hide under their nuclear umbrella if things go wrong.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    If true, pretty stupid planning – look what a mess that they’re in today.

  132. @AP
    @Beckow


    “This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.”

    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it
     
    Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people; ethnic Ukrainian kids are learning in their own language now.

    Russia is erasing towns and thousands of Russian-speaking people.

    An honest person would admit which action is closer to genocide.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers….

    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k “IT workers” in the Lviv region
     
    It has increased since the war as companies have moved from places like Kharkiv and many more of Ukraine’s 200,000 IT workers have transferred to Lviv:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/business/ukraine-tech-companies-putin.html

    The entire country of Slovakia only has 28k such workers:

    https://www.itminions.be/en/blog/slovakia-tech-talent-goldmine

    around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages
     
    “Call center work” isn’t IT customer support.

    $3k, are you kidding? that’s what a good barista makes

     

    The average wage in Slovakia is less than a thousand Euros per month. So those 35,000 + new arrivals programmers in Lviv are making 3 times the average Slovak wage per month, in a city with a very low cost of living. They are living quite well.

    Average German wage is about the same as the average Lviv programmer wage.

    And programmers in Bratislava make no more than do programmers in Lviv:

    http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=2226&loctype=3&job=3&jobtype=2

    Given the Lviv us cheaper, the guys in Lviv do better than their Slovak colleagues.

    “That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.”

    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that
     
    1. That was started by Russians when they crossed the border into Ukraine with their volunteers and weapons. Girkin and Pavlov weren’t Ukrainians.

    2. The Russian mass invasion and murder spree began in 2022, 7 years after 2015. Its already a separate event.

    “1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.”

    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?

     

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

    A difference between NATO and Russia is that Russia kills far more Slavs though.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that – a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes
     
    No one is touching obnoxious but tiny North Korea, and everyone tolerates it’s missile overflies over places like Japan. But you think NATO would dare invade Russia?

    NATO would forever keep Russia’s hands off Ukraine. This is why Russia doesn’t want NATO there. It wants to reabsorb Ukraine. NATO itself is secondary to the main problem for Russia, which is the eternal loss of Ukraine. Russia would seek to end Ukraine even when - as was the case prior to invasion - NATO membership was very unlikely.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine
     
    Now you’ve slipped and admitted that the problem wasn’t exactly NATO, but Ukraine.

    Finns btw don’t like Russia either and have stronger claims on Russian territory than Ukrainians do. You keep bringing up Volyn from 80 years ago but now you’ve conveniently forgotten what Finland had been up to at that time.

    It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity
     
    Like in 2008? No war then and Yushchenko was president. But it didn’t happen. Nor did it in every year since then.

    If you think that ‘territorial conflict’ would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else
     
    Your type like to conveniently change your story. First you brag about how by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia has blocked Ukraine from getting into NATO. Brilliant chess move by Putin! But now when you need a pending NATO membership as an excuse for a full invasion and attempt at regime change, that becomes irrelevant.

    Your hypocrisy and mendacity on display again and as usual. It also shows how undignified it is, to always lick the Russian boot as you do.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine

     

    NATO is more in Ukraine now than it ever has been.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    There’s now a case to be made, after the confirmation of the NS2 bombing that this entire war caper is designed to make sure Germany and Russia form no grand strategic alliance. You sound like a Pollack in 1938. The world didn’t revolve around the clucking Polish back then and it doesn’t revolve around posturing Ukrainians today. Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    NS2 was not destroyed. Only NS1. Russia has literally said so. You guys are nuts.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @AP
    @Wokechoke


    Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field
     
    Poland is building what will be the strongest military in Europe, and Ukraine if it endures will be its equal and close partner. The reemergence of a powerful version of the PLC will probably be the most important European geopolitical event in 150 years. No wonder the Germans are dragging their feet.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

  133. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    There's now a case to be made, after the confirmation of the NS2 bombing that this entire war caper is designed to make sure Germany and Russia form no grand strategic alliance. You sound like a Pollack in 1938. The world didn't revolve around the clucking Polish back then and it doesn't revolve around posturing Ukrainians today. Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    NS2 was not destroyed. Only NS1. Russia has literally said so. You guys are nuts.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about...or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.

    3/4 of the carrying capacity was exploded away.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

  134. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”.
     
    I urge you to follow your own advice here. The war between Ukraine and Russia is not really all that complicated, and there's really no reason to look for answers and causes within elaborately made up conspiracy theories etc. Believe me, it is what it looks like. You have a disgruntled player in this war (Russia) that thought that it had an invincible army, and that it was losing Ukraine to the West, and that this was the last optimal time to attack and subdue Ukraine and bring it back into the fold. How was Ukraine to react to this provocation? Quietly acquiesce to Russia's brazen invasion, in order to maximize good Slavic DNA for future generations, while handing over the keys to its house to a really lousy neighbor?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    Exactly. You said it better than I could.

    And meek acquiescence to the status of dhimmitude at the hands of track-suited Chechen gangsters under their Muscovite khan wouldn’t be a good demonstration of the fitness of the DNA they are supposed to be preserving.

    The steadfast stubbornness in defending one’s families and homes from the invader reflects a universally positive attribute that is very noble in nature, despite the situation itself being horrible.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    О Господи...

    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan...

    LOL !

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?

    😉

    Replies: @AP

  135. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    And yet thorium reactors were discontinued one by one, both in USA and Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THTR-300
     
    What full scale (not lab scale) Thorium reactor was discontinued in the U.S.?
    ____

    THTR was a mixed solid U235 + Thorium "Pebble Bed Reactor" [PBR]. This has huge disadvantages versus LFTR. For example, the thorium cycle produces gases such as krypton. The LFTR can shed these gas from the operating fluid. Solid pebbles cannot. There were also science errors in the design of the pebble -- small & light enough to escape the bed.

    Ultimately, the German THTR was killed by the German Green party for political reasons. However, the poor choice & design of PBR plus related economics made it a pretty easy target for a take down.


    Most recently, just few years ago, it was tried in Halden, Norway, where apparently some meltdown-like situation occurred, and research was discontinued again.
     
    I do not remember news about an issue. It was a limited duration experimental scale system. (1)

    In one fell swoop, thorium fuel, which is safer, less messy to clean up, and not prone to nuclear weapons proliferation, could quench the complaints of nuclear power critics everywhere.
    ...
    By mixing thorium oxide with 10% plutonium oxide, however, criticality is achieved. This fuel, which is called thorium-MOX (mixed-oxide), can then be formed into rods and used in conventional nuclear reactors. Not only does this mean that we can do away with uranium, which is expensive to enrich, dangerous, and leads to nuclear proliferation, but it also means that we finally have an easy way of recycling plutonium. Furthermore, the thorium-MOX fuel cycle produces no new plutonium; it actually reduces the world’s stock of plutonium. Oh, thorium-MOX makes for safer nuclear reactors, too, due to a higher melting point and thermal conductivity.
    ...
    Thorium-MOX, in short, is about as exciting as it gets in the nuclear power industry. Before it can be used, though, Thor Energy needs to make sure that the thorium fuel cycle is fully understood. To do this, the company has built a small test reactor in the Norwegian town of Halden, where rods of thorium-MOX provide steam to a nearby paper mill. This reactor will run for five years, after which the fuel will be analyzed to see if it’s ready for commercial reactors
     
    My understanding is that it completed it limited period test and concluded as expected.

    If a major warhead decrease is in the cards, this concept could return. However, that seems unlikely in this geopolitical era. Without "free" plutonium, the economics of the Norwegian test did not warrant commercialization.


    thorium salts destroy pretty fast their containment, which results in all kinds of radioactive leakage
     
    I am not sure where you got this bit of crazy from, but it is not scientifically sound. You have been mislead or deceived.

    Clean FLiBe salt can be handled with modern materials in the Hastelloy series. Removing unwanted fission products is included in every serious LFTR proposal. Incidentally, this also reconditions the FLiBe salt back to its optimum clean state.

    LCTR fast neutron reactor concepts do exist in the literature, however the chloride salts are more problematic versus their fluoride brethren. Liquid lead seems to be the most attractive option for this route if desired. A few nutters, funded by GE, promote liquid sodium PRISM. Guess who owns the PRISM design? Could it be GE?


    The repeated mothballing of thorium reactors
     
    There has been no repeated mothballing. Again, you have been mislead or deceived.

    There has been only one commercial scale retirement. And, it was a poorly chosen & executed solid fuel design. Thus, not insightful to the LFTR concept.


    cannot have to do just with the nuclear weapons industry demanding uranium
     
    The military used cold war muscle to kill the early, government funded, LFTR work at ORNL and a few other locations. This kill shot was based on poor science, but it happened nonetheless in the quest for weapons grade plutonium.

    After that, the problem was more bureaucracy than military. All of the civilian laws & regulations had the U235 fuel cycle as a built in assumption. How would a thorium breeder be certified for operation when the rules expect something different? The red tape made it impossible. Also, all of the industry experts had a vested interest in keeping upstart competitors at bay.

    The desire for Small Modular Reactors [SMR] forced the regulators to open their committees to new ideas. And, LFTR is an excellent SMR option due to passive safety.

    You can read much more here:

    https://energyfromthorium.com/lftr-overview/

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/160131-thorium-nuclear-reactor-trial-begins-could-provide-cleaner-safer-almost-waste-free-energy

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones…

    The Halden incident was heavily covered-up when it happened. I remember reading on it in real time on some French site (in English though) monitoring radiation, which claimed it was about thorium.

    The official news from Oct 2016 avoid for some strange reason (lobbying, perhaps) any characterization of “fuel”, but make clear that it was a fuel problem:

    https://www-news.iaea.org/ErfView.aspx?mId=8566e7fd-88e6-458c-b487-d51dde9b1049

    We can get it was thorium because the experiment started in Jul 2016:

    http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/news/second-thorium-fuel-test-round-started

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones…
     
    No.

    Experiments are done to discover problems before commercial scale.

    The Halden incident ... characterization of “fuel”, but make clear that it was a fuel problem:
     
    A shutdown event/incident is far from a catastrophe. It is industry jargon. It was clearly not an insurmountable issue. It ran for years after the 2016 event you cited. (1)

    The Halden reactor was shut down permanently in June 2018. It has been regarded in many countries as a strategic asset for testing fuel and reactor components. The associated Fuels and Materials research programme will end in 2023.
     
    2018 was the intended research end-date I cited in my previous post, so it lasted the length of its grant.

    Also, it was not a LFTR. A solid fuel technology problem is not directly tied to liquid fuel solutions. Though it is informative.

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure
     
    No.

    Successful projects often lose out on 2nd & 3rd round finding for political reasons. Sad. But True.
    ____

    I looked at the crazy fear site that you cited earlier:

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/
     
    It has not been updated since April 2016. According to your own logic, updates have been discontinued. Therefore, it is no longer in operation and thus is *by your own definition* a failure.

    I did skim it briefly. Most of the panic is over "Thorium as a carcinogen". While true, the hysteria on the site was quite sad. Given that Thorium comes out of the ground as waste from rare earth mining, getting rid of the waste by destroying via fuel use it makes the situation better.

    Most of the other points I saw are known and admitted inconveniences. Not disqualifying barriers. The primary impediments are governmental and emotional, not scientific or engineering.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://ife.no/en/project/the-halden-reactor-project/

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  136. The German government know who is to blame, and they don’t think it is the Americans, hence them massively increasing their support to Ukraine and allying even more solidly with the Americans:

    Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday offered to resume gas supplies to Europe through the intact part of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

    “The ball is in the EU’s court. If they want to, then the taps can be turned on and that’s it,” he said in a speech at an energy forum in Moscow.

    Germany, however, said it would not take Russian gas via the Nord Stream 2 pipeline that has become a flashpoint in the Ukraine crisis.

    Asked if Berlin would rule out the use of Nord Stream 2, German government spokeswoman Christiane Hoffmann said, “Yes.”

    “Independently of the possible sabotage of the two pipelines, we have seen that Russia is no longer a reliable energy supplier, and that even before the damage to Nord Stream 1 there was no longer any gas flowing,” Hoffmann told reporters.

    https://www.dw.com/en/putin-offers-europe-gas-through-nord-stream-2-germany-declines/a-63416138

  137. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous "White Women" and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about.....food! (The politics here can't get any sillier lol).

    Since returning from my trip I've become obsessed with Thai food, and to a lesser extent Japanese food. I've always enjoyed Thai food, but was never really that interested in it for some reason. I always preferred Indian food.

    What is hitting me right now about Asian food is it's intense umami flavor - I don't know why that's hitting me hard now. I mean, I love Italian, French, Arabic food, but something about the sheer intensity of Asian food right now is really hitting home. Maybe it's just a phase.

    Also, in the past few years there has been a revolution in ingredient availability - off Amazon, you can get all the Thai sauces you see street vendors use straight from Thailand. And, it turns out, these dishes are incredibly easy to make!

    The intense, complex flavor appears to come not from some subtle skill in mixing diverse ingredients (well, some dishes do), but largely from the process of fermentation - which is really just aging and bio organisms, which I like. It's Nature. (some skill in mixing ingredients is called for).

    For instance, one of the best and most iconic Thai dishes that everyone loves - basil stir fry - only has garlic and chillies, then a sauce composed of fish sauce, oyster sauce, soy sauce, and sugar, and basil.(and your choice of meat).

    But the fermented fish sauce, oyster sauce, and even soy sauce - has incredible intensity and complexity developed through the process of natural aging.

    Japanese beef gyudon, which is thinly sliced fatty beef simmered, on rice, uses just soy sauce, mirin, and fish stock. But the incredible fermentation of the fish stock, the wine, the soy - it does everything!

    Japanese ginger pork, another incredible dish, uses just ginger, mirin, and soy sauce - yet what deep, complex, intense flavor.

    To be sure, much good Italian food is also incredibly simple and uses just a few really good ingredients. Or a good aged Spanish chorizo is just pork, garlic and paprika and salt. Simple! And what is Reggiano Parmesano but just beautifully fermented milk?

    It seems that the process of aging is what makes human food incredibly deep and rich and complex - cooperating with nature, as it were. Maybe that's why processed industrial food is so awful - it doesn't let nature do it's thing?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective

    I’ve been a big fan of Thai food for at least 15 years, and before that Chinese and Vietnamese. I’ve probably been to at least half of all of the Thai restaurants in the Phoenix area (and that’s saying a lot!). I really enjoy Thai curry dishes, but am also quite acquainted with their eggplant and more “umami” type of dishes too (have you ever tasted Thai “Tom Kha Gai” soup? the only soup that gives Ukrainian borshch a run for the money, yum!). Covid put the quash on one of m favorite Thai restaurants here, closing their all you can eat buffet. $12.95 for a trip to culinary heaven. I think of you whenever I put some curry powder in my boiling white rice – thanks for the tip! 🙂

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Mr. Hack

    Ah, Mr Hack, American Thai restaurants can be quite good, but they are notorious for changing the flavor to suit American palates!

    What you eat on the streets of Bangkok is most of the time quite different - much more intense and spicy!

    Which is not to say you aren't getting some idea of the incredible flavors of Thai food in America, and even if very different it can be good in it's own right (perhaps it can be a new cuisine :) )

    One must travel to Thailand or make it oneself to get the real deal, alas. However, curries are closest to what you find in Thailand, so you can enjoy that in Phoenix :)

    Vietnamese can be quite good too and more authentic - there used to be this chain of bread and Ban Mhi shops in Phoenix that I thought was quite decent for a chain - Lees Bakery, maybe? I don't quite remember - I ate at it in Scottsdale once.

    NYC has a lot of really good Banh Mi shops :)

    Believe it or not, I've never had Borscht before - but recently I was in a part of Brooklyn that had a community from Tashkent, and I picked up a prepared Borscht soup completely on a whim - I have to confess, it was amazing! I was quite surprised. The sour flavors were unexpected but perfect. Thai soups can be excellent too.

    Here's to fermentation and the contribution it makes to deliciousness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  138. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous "White Women" and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about.....food! (The politics here can't get any sillier lol).

    Since returning from my trip I've become obsessed with Thai food, and to a lesser extent Japanese food. I've always enjoyed Thai food, but was never really that interested in it for some reason. I always preferred Indian food.

    What is hitting me right now about Asian food is it's intense umami flavor - I don't know why that's hitting me hard now. I mean, I love Italian, French, Arabic food, but something about the sheer intensity of Asian food right now is really hitting home. Maybe it's just a phase.

    Also, in the past few years there has been a revolution in ingredient availability - off Amazon, you can get all the Thai sauces you see street vendors use straight from Thailand. And, it turns out, these dishes are incredibly easy to make!

    The intense, complex flavor appears to come not from some subtle skill in mixing diverse ingredients (well, some dishes do), but largely from the process of fermentation - which is really just aging and bio organisms, which I like. It's Nature. (some skill in mixing ingredients is called for).

    For instance, one of the best and most iconic Thai dishes that everyone loves - basil stir fry - only has garlic and chillies, then a sauce composed of fish sauce, oyster sauce, soy sauce, and sugar, and basil.(and your choice of meat).

    But the fermented fish sauce, oyster sauce, and even soy sauce - has incredible intensity and complexity developed through the process of natural aging.

    Japanese beef gyudon, which is thinly sliced fatty beef simmered, on rice, uses just soy sauce, mirin, and fish stock. But the incredible fermentation of the fish stock, the wine, the soy - it does everything!

    Japanese ginger pork, another incredible dish, uses just ginger, mirin, and soy sauce - yet what deep, complex, intense flavor.

    To be sure, much good Italian food is also incredibly simple and uses just a few really good ingredients. Or a good aged Spanish chorizo is just pork, garlic and paprika and salt. Simple! And what is Reggiano Parmesano but just beautifully fermented milk?

    It seems that the process of aging is what makes human food incredibly deep and rich and complex - cooperating with nature, as it were. Maybe that's why processed industrial food is so awful - it doesn't let nature do it's thing?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective

    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous “White Women” and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about…..food! (The politics here can’t get any sillier lol).

    Treacherous (((White))) women !

    🙂

    And it is not politics but anthropology!

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/article/abs/gumilev-mystique-biopolitics-eurasianism-and-the-construction-of-community-in-modern-russia-by-mark-bassin-ithaca-cornell-university-press-2016-xiv-380-pp-bibliography-index-8995-hard-bound-2995-paper/39EA530150C55D0E65816A5AAE6E9E96

    Read that while you munch on your gefilte fish.

    😏

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Don't let yourself slide into this rabbit hole. You may never escape and then you'll end up like every other lunatic who descended into that world of projection and delusion. Unhappy, bitter and unable to recognise yourself. It might be a necessary path for you, but there are easier ways ones should you design to choose them. If you can read between the lines of my comments and have the level of spiritual understanding which you communicate sometimes, you'll know that I give good advice in this area. Or at least that it is worth genuine consideration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, we know the Jews, both male and female, are responsible - that much is obvious. But above you sounded a new note, that "their" women - the women of White men, whose only sin was being complacent - betrayed them.

    So you were talking about White women, who betrayed, whereas White men were only guilty of a naive complacency, poor things. (One wonders where you situate all those White male philosophers, artists, and thinkers who advanced the cause of decadence - like Macdonald, they seem invisible to you in the story of Western decline :) )

    Do you remember commenter Rosie? She was this female White nationalist who used to post on Audacious Epigones blog, and often Sailers and other blogs. She was intelligent and rather inoffensive, I thought, but for some reason she was viciously persecuted by the boys on that on other parts of this site. I never really understood why they hated her so. She hated Jews, but even I wasn't as mean to her as they were.

    But as a general principle, I once tried explaining to her that once you let the genie of "othering" out of the bottle, it does not stop at gender. In fact, gender is one of the primary divisions and examples of "othering" available to the human species - each gender is rather mysterious and confusing to the other, lol.

    A society that hates Jews and minorities is going to be misogynistic, simply because all "others" are suspect to the majority power holders. And it's no accident that women's liberation went in tandem with anti-racism.

    Can there be a "sweet spot" for "othering", so that you limit it to other races but not to the opposite gender? So far signs are not promising, and I don't know. Can one fine tune these things I winder. Maybe.

    But I guess we shall see :) All sorts of interesting anthropological experiments are beginning to take place - no group identity has ever in the past been founded primarily on race, but that is being attempted to.

    We shall see.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  139. Of course this letter is a fake, why would the Germans prosecute an Ukie for wearing SS insignia anyway? The Germans already know who they are training here. Good Russian trolling.

    Cyberspec1 is a fun twitter feed to follow. Heavy Russian bias but it’s a good mood barometer, with no crazy swings of uncalled for despair and elation.

  140. @AP
    @Mr. Hack

    Exactly. You said it better than I could.

    And meek acquiescence to the status of dhimmitude at the hands of track-suited Chechen gangsters under their Muscovite khan wouldn’t be a good demonstration of the fitness of the DNA they are supposed to be preserving.

    The steadfast stubbornness in defending one’s families and homes from the invader reflects a universally positive attribute that is very noble in nature, despite the situation itself being horrible.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    О Господи…

    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan…

    LOL !

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?

    😉

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan…
     
    History repeating as farce, but still repeating. Muscovy/Russia consistently follows a template, which is hard to break, even if Khans have been Germans, or that Georgian. Larping as wigged European aristocrats, Byzantine emperors, saviours and dictators of proles, etc.

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?
     
    That’s what Bykov was writing. But that pattern has not been maintained since Sviatoslav. Rather, Ze’s (ex?) sponsor had stepped into the traditional role of magnate, in a system whose democratic instincts (so different from Russia’s inevitable Asiatic despotism) continue the Rzeczpospolita’s legacy.

    These two political ways are incompatible, and thus the deadly friction until there is a permanent break and Russia leave Ukraine alone, and focuses eastward.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool

  141. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    One of the problems with our world is that people sometimes overcomplicate things. When one goes back to being simple-minded, things sometimes become more evident. As Pelevin once wrote : “when you don’t think a lot becomes clearer”.
     
    I urge you to follow your own advice here. The war between Ukraine and Russia is not really all that complicated, and there's really no reason to look for answers and causes within elaborately made up conspiracy theories etc. Believe me, it is what it looks like. You have a disgruntled player in this war (Russia) that thought that it had an invincible army, and that it was losing Ukraine to the West, and that this was the last optimal time to attack and subdue Ukraine and bring it back into the fold. How was Ukraine to react to this provocation? Quietly acquiesce to Russia's brazen invasion, in order to maximize good Slavic DNA for future generations, while handing over the keys to its house to a really lousy neighbor?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    Mr Hack, simple-minded doesn’t mean stupid.

    😄

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    So now I'm "stupid" for my opinion (and a few others here who happened to support my comment).

    Hey friend, I'm only trying to have a good conversation with you - I expect better from you!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  142. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous "White Women" and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about.....food! (The politics here can't get any sillier lol).

    Since returning from my trip I've become obsessed with Thai food, and to a lesser extent Japanese food. I've always enjoyed Thai food, but was never really that interested in it for some reason. I always preferred Indian food.

    What is hitting me right now about Asian food is it's intense umami flavor - I don't know why that's hitting me hard now. I mean, I love Italian, French, Arabic food, but something about the sheer intensity of Asian food right now is really hitting home. Maybe it's just a phase.

    Also, in the past few years there has been a revolution in ingredient availability - off Amazon, you can get all the Thai sauces you see street vendors use straight from Thailand. And, it turns out, these dishes are incredibly easy to make!

    The intense, complex flavor appears to come not from some subtle skill in mixing diverse ingredients (well, some dishes do), but largely from the process of fermentation - which is really just aging and bio organisms, which I like. It's Nature. (some skill in mixing ingredients is called for).

    For instance, one of the best and most iconic Thai dishes that everyone loves - basil stir fry - only has garlic and chillies, then a sauce composed of fish sauce, oyster sauce, soy sauce, and sugar, and basil.(and your choice of meat).

    But the fermented fish sauce, oyster sauce, and even soy sauce - has incredible intensity and complexity developed through the process of natural aging.

    Japanese beef gyudon, which is thinly sliced fatty beef simmered, on rice, uses just soy sauce, mirin, and fish stock. But the incredible fermentation of the fish stock, the wine, the soy - it does everything!

    Japanese ginger pork, another incredible dish, uses just ginger, mirin, and soy sauce - yet what deep, complex, intense flavor.

    To be sure, much good Italian food is also incredibly simple and uses just a few really good ingredients. Or a good aged Spanish chorizo is just pork, garlic and paprika and salt. Simple! And what is Reggiano Parmesano but just beautifully fermented milk?

    It seems that the process of aging is what makes human food incredibly deep and rich and complex - cooperating with nature, as it were. Maybe that's why processed industrial food is so awful - it doesn't let nature do it's thing?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective

    the fermented fish sauce

    was very popular in ancient Roman cuisine, and was known as garum.

    It is amazing how our taste palette has changed since that time, despite living in similar environment/climate to ancient Romans.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Right, I've heard of this - I think it was as valued as gold, or something, to the Romans.

    It's remarkable that we've completely lost this in the West, but most of Asia uses fish sauce. I am a huge fan of it.

    In fact, I was first introduced to it years ago in SEA by two Italian travelers I met who described it as "liquid parmesan"" :) That's what induced me to try it, as the idea of fermented anchovies did not initially appeal to my simplistic American palate.

    The real question is why Americans and Geemanics are known for only liking bland food? There is some very good food in northern Europe and America, of course, but we do have a blandness issue we just overcome.

    May Garum return once again to the West!

  143. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous “White Women” and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about…..food! (The politics here can’t get any sillier lol).
     
    Treacherous (((White))) women !

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Emma_Goldman_seated.jpg

    🙂

    And it is not politics but anthropology!

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/article/abs/gumilev-mystique-biopolitics-eurasianism-and-the-construction-of-community-in-modern-russia-by-mark-bassin-ithaca-cornell-university-press-2016-xiv-380-pp-bibliography-index-8995-hard-bound-2995-paper/39EA530150C55D0E65816A5AAE6E9E96

    Read that while you munch on your gefilte fish.

    😏

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Don’t let yourself slide into this rabbit hole. You may never escape and then you’ll end up like every other lunatic who descended into that world of projection and delusion. Unhappy, bitter and unable to recognise yourself. It might be a necessary path for you, but there are easier ways ones should you design to choose them. If you can read between the lines of my comments and have the level of spiritual understanding which you communicate sometimes, you’ll know that I give good advice in this area. Or at least that it is worth genuine consideration.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I like the experimental approach. That's why I've already gone through this rabbit hole and emerged on the other side. Now it's cool where I am.

    I am learning to hate no one. Karma will take care of everyone equally, me included. We will all be sorted out.

    I agree with Greasy here, it's not even worth trying to level the scores. Quite the opposite. Let it go to its logical conclusions, let it accelerate.

    It is about time the circus lights go off...

    https://youtu.be/_T6GhYdwI7g

  144. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    There's now a case to be made, after the confirmation of the NS2 bombing that this entire war caper is designed to make sure Germany and Russia form no grand strategic alliance. You sound like a Pollack in 1938. The world didn't revolve around the clucking Polish back then and it doesn't revolve around posturing Ukrainians today. Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP

    Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field

    Poland is building what will be the strongest military in Europe, and Ukraine if it endures will be its equal and close partner. The reemergence of a powerful version of the PLC will probably be the most important European geopolitical event in 150 years. No wonder the Germans are dragging their feet.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP

    How popular is this idea in the Baltics? And in Ukraine?

    Could be wrong, but I don't really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

    Or are you imagining it, without them?

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Wokechoke
    @AP

    lol! Berliners and Muscovites take note. The Winged Tarta...Hussars are back on the frontier and crimea...


    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/IlkhanidHorseArcher.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adil_Giray

    Crimean Khan.

    "In 1666 he was placed on the throne by the Ottomans, who were displeased with khan Mehmed IV. At the time he was in exile at Rhodes. He came into conflict with his nobles, especially the Shirin clan, because of his Polish ancestry and high taxes. It is said he strongly supported the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, and was one of the candidates in the Polish royal election of 1669".

    Let's not even get into the list of Polish girls in the Istanbul Harem over the centuries.

  145. @Beckow
    @S


    ...but the Western middle class as well.
     
    I generally defend the middle class everywhere, but let's be honest: large part of the Western middle class is simply parasitic. They consume way beyond anything productive they do. I don't want to list the endless silly made-up activities that provide their living, from distributing gment goodies and virtual money, endless 'charity', green activism, protecting against "Russia", social media, etc...all of that is possible only because the material basis (land, food, infrastructure, energy...) has been either built up or is often obtained at minimum cost from the rest of the world (that virtual money machine :)...

    It is inevitable that the rulers would eventually decide to trim the 'middle class' nonsense. It has grown too much, consumes too much, they get in the way when elite wants to enjoy the vistas of Yosemite or Venice. So they are being put in their place - fewer of them and with less ability to consume. Given the incredible self-defeating stupidity of most of the Western middle class this is a good thing. They have become too stupid to protect what they have - they are easily led by very primitive propaganda. I say, time for them to go...

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I say, time for them to go…

    Them disappearing will include (P~.98) totalitarian control on your consumption of wine, t-bone steak, cannabis, gasoline, heating and cooling energy, and an ad infinitum of consumer goods.

    Also your speech. They would control your thoughts if they had the power to do so. Attempting to control our thoughts will consume an increasing fraction of resources.

    Ted Kaczynski had a better plan and his plan was retarded.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, I am glad you took my screed against the lazy, parasitic Western middle classes seriously :)...

    On second thought, given the risks to my steaks, I will reconsider and let them stay...could they in turn be nice enough to stay mostly home, watch their stupid tv and video games, and refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns? Also, leave the fat wives (of all genders) home...we need to get back to some semblance of civilization...

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  146. @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I've been a big fan of Thai food for at least 15 years, and before that Chinese and Vietnamese. I've probably been to at least half of all of the Thai restaurants in the Phoenix area (and that's saying a lot!). I really enjoy Thai curry dishes, but am also quite acquainted with their eggplant and more "umami" type of dishes too (have you ever tasted Thai "Tom Kha Gai" soup? the only soup that gives Ukrainian borshch a run for the money, yum!). Covid put the quash on one of m favorite Thai restaurants here, closing their all you can eat buffet. $12.95 for a trip to culinary heaven. I think of you whenever I put some curry powder in my boiling white rice - thanks for the tip! :-)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Ah, Mr Hack, American Thai restaurants can be quite good, but they are notorious for changing the flavor to suit American palates!

    What you eat on the streets of Bangkok is most of the time quite different – much more intense and spicy!

    Which is not to say you aren’t getting some idea of the incredible flavors of Thai food in America, and even if very different it can be good in it’s own right (perhaps it can be a new cuisine 🙂 )

    One must travel to Thailand or make it oneself to get the real deal, alas. However, curries are closest to what you find in Thailand, so you can enjoy that in Phoenix 🙂

    Vietnamese can be quite good too and more authentic – there used to be this chain of bread and Ban Mhi shops in Phoenix that I thought was quite decent for a chain – Lees Bakery, maybe? I don’t quite remember – I ate at it in Scottsdale once.

    NYC has a lot of really good Banh Mi shops 🙂

    Believe it or not, I’ve never had Borscht before – but recently I was in a part of Brooklyn that had a community from Tashkent, and I picked up a prepared Borscht soup completely on a whim – I have to confess, it was amazing! I was quite surprised. The sour flavors were unexpected but perfect. Thai soups can be excellent too.

    Here’s to fermentation and the contribution it makes to deliciousness.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    much more intense and spicy!
     
    I can only imagine. I always get this carousel placed on my table with about 4 different types of hot spices that I can use to increase the voltage, if I think it's necessary (and I almost always put at least a little into my main dish). If I feel a cold coming on, I put a lot on, so that I can feel the heat in the nasal cavities in my head, and stop the progression right there on the spot. :-)

    But the nice thing about Thai food is that it doesn't need to be very spicy at all. Flavors like peanuts, Thai basil, lemon grass, can be real tasty and are often used as the main taste profile of many dishes. Another thing about Thai food that most Americans don't realize is that it's a very varied sort of cuisine, changing a lot depending on the region within Thailand that you find yourself. I watch Thai food shows on the tube and have learned about this, even while I'm at some of the restaurants where they often play Thai foodie travelogs within the premises. We really are only experiencing the "tip of the iceberg", here in the states.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  147. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird


    But that first sentence I find very curious. Are you not implying that it is only men that can understand subtlety?
     
    By associating "masculinity" with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.

    I prefer introspection.
     
    You do?

    To pretend to too good a grasp into other people’s heart’s and minds, honestly strikes me somewhat as an attempt at witchcraft, or some other sacrilege.
     
    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.

    Replies: @songbird

    By associating “masculinity” with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.

    Are you sure that is not how you became a tranny?

    I was hoping you would actually give us your definition of masculinity. Does your idea of it not have any fixed qualities?

    [MORE]

    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.

    Why so anti-religious? Thought that there were a lot of churches and synagogues accepting gays and trannies now.

    Zimbardo (one of your party who fell into disrepute) outright said that he didn’t believe in a soul. IIRC, you said you did (probably a dodge to avoid the stigma of not believing in one), but your strange attempt to redefine masculinity seems to show you don’t, which is further underlined by your professed belief that you can dissect anyone’s brain and see inside their thoughts. Not guess (which everyone enjoys doing), but actually observe their inner self, and then change it. Not just one person that you have rapport with, but anyone here.

    I think there is something Satanic in your confidence, and I don’t mind saying so. Maybe, it is simple narcissism, but compounded by new age beliefs.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your ability to see me is zero, whereas I have no barriers between my conscious, what would be my unconscious, the unconscious and yours. Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in. My confidence comes from direct perception. Where does your fear come from?

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  148. https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/russias-attack-nord-stream-pipelines-means-putin-has-truly-weaponized

    So you do take the Heritage Foundation Position that Russia blew up, I mean partially blew up, NS2 and NS1?

    That’s your position.

    Rather than the US did exactly what it threatened it would do to the pipelines a few times?

    and then chuckled about leaks being under investigation and the bombing being “in No One’s interest”…

    “steep discount on oil” goys…

    You’ve no need to pretend that The Sullivan, Nuland & Blinken sabotage group didn’t do it. War in Ukraine was a mere pretext for the effort to separate out Russian and German business.

  149. @Mikel
    @Leaves No Shadow


    How much are we betting?
     
    Interesting, to see you betting on military matters after your epic Taliban prediction.

    But I would be very surprised myself if Lukashenko sends Belarussian troops to Ukraine at this unfavorable stage. Putin may have most of the population behind him but Luka doesn't. That's why he finally had to align himself with the Kremlin in the first place. If even Putin is unwilling to take the mobilization measures that would allow him to put an end to the misadventure he started, will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AnonfromTN

    will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more

    Luka is wily, or, to be exact, he is best described by my grandma’s phrase in Ukrainian “дурний, та хитрий” (stupid, but cunning). For many years he tried to maneuver between the RF, China, and the EU to maximize goodies Belarus gets from all sides (Belarus cannot live as well as it does on its own resources). However, the West made a strategic mistake in Belarus: instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him. Luka is not a coward, like Ukrainian Yanuk, he did not surrender before the battle was lost, but fought back vigorously and prevailed. Net result: Western morons pushed him into Putin’s camp. Today Putin firmly holds his balls in his hand and can squeeze as hard as he needs. What’s more, now Luka has nothing to loose: Belarus is already under a bunch of idiotic Western sanctions. So, if Putin wants Belarus to join the RF in Ukraine, he is going to get his wish. Whether he wants it is another question.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AnonfromTN


    instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him.
     
    No. Lukashenko just overplayed his hand by first imprisoning opposition candidates on trumped-up charges and then publishing elections results that nobody over 10 years of age could believe in, although you seemed to believe that the Kherson and Zaporizhia referendums were legitimate, but well, the thing is that lots of people in Belarus weren't so gullible and reacted strongly in the streets. The West did try to meddle, of course, but you make it sound like some CIA operatives went to Belarus and arranged a revolution out of the blue. Western intervention in the Belarus election crisis was in fact much more subdued than during the Maidan uprising.

    However, it is possibly a good thing that the protests didn't go too far and eventually calmed down with no bloodbath. The average person in Belarus is probably better off under a dictatorial regime than in a state of chaos and armed conflict like their southern neighbors. Besides, it is not very clear that a Jeffersonian democracy is the optimal social arrangement among Eastern Slavs. I'm not sure it has ever worked very well there.

    Luka has nothing to loose
     
    His throne and maybe even his head if a stream of coffins starts coming to their families from Ukraine a few years after he showed the middle finger to the people who voted in the elections.
    , @Gerard1234
    @AnonfromTN

    That's all true.........but Banderastan effectively supporting the colour revolution/Polish Op to overthrow him and (pointlessly and in infamous historical level stupidity) joining in with the west and placing sanctions on Belarus after the fake forced landing of the plane stunt, made Luka do something he was never, EVER going to do, whatever the relationship with Russia.........allow SMO attack from Belarus territory and the continuous missile strikes.

  150. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Ahem, now that Bashi has decided that treacherous “White Women” and not only Jews are responsible for the Wests decline, I think this is the perfect moment to talk about…..food! (The politics here can’t get any sillier lol).
     
    Treacherous (((White))) women !

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Emma_Goldman_seated.jpg

    🙂

    And it is not politics but anthropology!

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/article/abs/gumilev-mystique-biopolitics-eurasianism-and-the-construction-of-community-in-modern-russia-by-mark-bassin-ithaca-cornell-university-press-2016-xiv-380-pp-bibliography-index-8995-hard-bound-2995-paper/39EA530150C55D0E65816A5AAE6E9E96

    Read that while you munch on your gefilte fish.

    😏

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, we know the Jews, both male and female, are responsible – that much is obvious. But above you sounded a new note, that “their” women – the women of White men, whose only sin was being complacent – betrayed them.

    So you were talking about White women, who betrayed, whereas White men were only guilty of a naive complacency, poor things. (One wonders where you situate all those White male philosophers, artists, and thinkers who advanced the cause of decadence – like Macdonald, they seem invisible to you in the story of Western decline 🙂 )

    Do you remember commenter Rosie? She was this female White nationalist who used to post on Audacious Epigones blog, and often Sailers and other blogs. She was intelligent and rather inoffensive, I thought, but for some reason she was viciously persecuted by the boys on that on other parts of this site. I never really understood why they hated her so. She hated Jews, but even I wasn’t as mean to her as they were.

    But as a general principle, I once tried explaining to her that once you let the genie of “othering” out of the bottle, it does not stop at gender. In fact, gender is one of the primary divisions and examples of “othering” available to the human species – each gender is rather mysterious and confusing to the other, lol.

    A society that hates Jews and minorities is going to be misogynistic, simply because all “others” are suspect to the majority power holders. And it’s no accident that women’s liberation went in tandem with anti-racism.

    Can there be a “sweet spot” for “othering”, so that you limit it to other races but not to the opposite gender? So far signs are not promising, and I don’t know. Can one fine tune these things I winder. Maybe.

    But I guess we shall see 🙂 All sorts of interesting anthropological experiments are beginning to take place – no group identity has ever in the past been founded primarily on race, but that is being attempted to.

    We shall see.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the women of White men
     
    Feminism. Women Rights. My body my choice.

    https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/bbb0b03df5094073b8ba258d71bd1ec7/3000.jpeg

    Not yet human.

    https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/rockcms/2022-06/220623-roe-v-wade-abortion-scotus-protest-2-se-805p-2ef18c.jpg

    TFR ~ 1...

    Divorce rate for an American marriage.

    https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/07/Share-of-marriages-end-in-divorces-in-US-Stevenson-Wolfers-800x545.png

    Sexual promiscuity.

    https://cdn-adklk.nitrocdn.com/vAlLOcBPjCSUTuqFpgWoGejnngKOaInw/assets/images/optimized/rev-fc9d120/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Here_s-the-list-of-states-in-the-U.S.-with-the-highest-averages..jpg

    Children born out of wedlock.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/figure14-w640.png

    Happy St. Valentine's Day !

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

  151. @AP
    @Wokechoke


    Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field
     
    Poland is building what will be the strongest military in Europe, and Ukraine if it endures will be its equal and close partner. The reemergence of a powerful version of the PLC will probably be the most important European geopolitical event in 150 years. No wonder the Germans are dragging their feet.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    How popular is this idea in the Baltics? And in Ukraine?

    Could be wrong, but I don’t really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

    Or are you imagining it, without them?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    How popular is this idea in the Baltics?
     
    Getting more attention than before but, unfortunately, not yet fully mainstream. There are some newly established political formats, which is not bad.

    Could be wrong, but I don’t really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

     

    You're correct that most Balts are focused more on the nation state type of ideas as well as partly on the EU, but the world has changed a lot, and is still changing rather fast.

    I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean by "culturally and politically swamped". Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation. Substance and content is more important than formalities.

    Replies: @songbird

  152. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the fermented fish sauce
     
    was very popular in ancient Roman cuisine, and was known as garum.

    It is amazing how our taste palette has changed since that time, despite living in similar environment/climate to ancient Romans.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Right, I’ve heard of this – I think it was as valued as gold, or something, to the Romans.

    It’s remarkable that we’ve completely lost this in the West, but most of Asia uses fish sauce. I am a huge fan of it.

    In fact, I was first introduced to it years ago in SEA by two Italian travelers I met who described it as “liquid parmesan”” 🙂 That’s what induced me to try it, as the idea of fermented anchovies did not initially appeal to my simplistic American palate.

    The real question is why Americans and Geemanics are known for only liking bland food? There is some very good food in northern Europe and America, of course, but we do have a blandness issue we just overcome.

    May Garum return once again to the West!

  153. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones...

    The Halden incident was heavily covered-up when it happened. I remember reading on it in real time on some French site (in English though) monitoring radiation, which claimed it was about thorium.

    The official news from Oct 2016 avoid for some strange reason (lobbying, perhaps) any characterization of "fuel", but make clear that it was a fuel problem:

    https://www-news.iaea.org/ErfView.aspx?mId=8566e7fd-88e6-458c-b487-d51dde9b1049

    We can get it was thorium because the experiment started in Jul 2016:

    http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/news/second-thorium-fuel-test-round-started

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure.

    Replies: @A123

    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones…

    No.

    Experiments are done to discover problems before commercial scale.

    The Halden incident … characterization of “fuel”, but make clear that it was a fuel problem:

    A shutdown event/incident is far from a catastrophe. It is industry jargon. It was clearly not an insurmountable issue. It ran for years after the 2016 event you cited. (1)

    The Halden reactor was shut down permanently in June 2018. It has been regarded in many countries as a strategic asset for testing fuel and reactor components. The associated Fuels and Materials research programme will end in 2023.

    2018 was the intended research end-date I cited in my previous post, so it lasted the length of its grant.

    Also, it was not a LFTR. A solid fuel technology problem is not directly tied to liquid fuel solutions. Though it is informative.

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure

    No.

    Successful projects often lose out on 2nd & 3rd round finding for political reasons. Sad. But True.
    ____

    I looked at the crazy fear site that you cited earlier:

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/

    It has not been updated since April 2016. According to your own logic, updates have been discontinued. Therefore, it is no longer in operation and thus is *by your own definition* a failure.

    I did skim it briefly. Most of the panic is over “Thorium as a carcinogen”. While true, the hysteria on the site was quite sad. Given that Thorium comes out of the ground as waste from rare earth mining, getting rid of the waste by destroying via fuel use it makes the situation better.

    Most of the other points I saw are known and admitted inconveniences. Not disqualifying barriers. The primary impediments are governmental and emotional, not scientific or engineering.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://ife.no/en/project/the-halden-reactor-project/

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    Halden was closed after a string of failures, of which that of 2016 was the last one AFAIK.

    Closing research project does not mean closing reactor; that are two different matters. Therefore closing the Halden reactor in 2018 does not necessarily mean the research project was run successfully. Anyway, secrecy which clouded it after the 2016 class 2 nuclear incident is rather telling.

    Commercial Thorium reactors are still more theoretical than real possibility

  154. @AP
    @Wokechoke


    Great tectonic plates are moving and Ukraine as the name suggests is just a faultline. Poland as the name suggests just an empty field
     
    Poland is building what will be the strongest military in Europe, and Ukraine if it endures will be its equal and close partner. The reemergence of a powerful version of the PLC will probably be the most important European geopolitical event in 150 years. No wonder the Germans are dragging their feet.

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    lol! Berliners and Muscovites take note. The Winged Tarta…Hussars are back on the frontier and crimea…


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adil_Giray

    Crimean Khan.

    “In 1666 he was placed on the throne by the Ottomans, who were displeased with khan Mehmed IV. At the time he was in exile at Rhodes. He came into conflict with his nobles, especially the Shirin clan, because of his Polish ancestry and high taxes. It is said he strongly supported the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, and was one of the candidates in the Polish royal election of 1669”.

    Let’s not even get into the list of Polish girls in the Istanbul Harem over the centuries.

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
  155. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Don't let yourself slide into this rabbit hole. You may never escape and then you'll end up like every other lunatic who descended into that world of projection and delusion. Unhappy, bitter and unable to recognise yourself. It might be a necessary path for you, but there are easier ways ones should you design to choose them. If you can read between the lines of my comments and have the level of spiritual understanding which you communicate sometimes, you'll know that I give good advice in this area. Or at least that it is worth genuine consideration.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I like the experimental approach. That’s why I’ve already gone through this rabbit hole and emerged on the other side. Now it’s cool where I am.

    I am learning to hate no one. Karma will take care of everyone equally, me included. We will all be sorted out.

    I agree with Greasy here, it’s not even worth trying to level the scores. Quite the opposite. Let it go to its logical conclusions, let it accelerate.

    It is about time the circus lights go off…

  156. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    NS2 was not destroyed. Only NS1. Russia has literally said so. You guys are nuts.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about…or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.

    3/4 of the carrying capacity was exploded away.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    , @A123
    @Wokechoke


    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about…or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.
     
    We have still seen no evidence of explosives. That is based on anonymous sources.

    Three pipes ruptured in a manner consistent with a heavy industrial accident.

    What could happen if Russia dropped pressure at the fill end to reverse flow & recovery salable material?

    • The operators opened valves at their end 1,200 km from Germany.
    • Hydrate slug #1 created a rupture.
    • Hydrate slug #2 quickly followed, resembling a single event.
    • Pipe #3 had a pressure differential end to end 1,200 km. 17 hours lucky it had a slug movement & rupture.
    • Pipe #4 luck smiled, no issue

    If the operators were clever, they may have been trying to repressurize their end of pipes #3 and #4.

    Unfortunately, it is sort of like the CCP's lab at WIV. We will never get an opportunity to thoroughly investigate.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  157. @A123
    @Another Polish Perspective


    If small, experimental reactors are failing, we could expect even more failure from commercial ones…
     
    No.

    Experiments are done to discover problems before commercial scale.

    The Halden incident ... characterization of “fuel”, but make clear that it was a fuel problem:
     
    A shutdown event/incident is far from a catastrophe. It is industry jargon. It was clearly not an insurmountable issue. It ran for years after the 2016 event you cited. (1)

    The Halden reactor was shut down permanently in June 2018. It has been regarded in many countries as a strategic asset for testing fuel and reactor components. The associated Fuels and Materials research programme will end in 2023.
     
    2018 was the intended research end-date I cited in my previous post, so it lasted the length of its grant.

    Also, it was not a LFTR. A solid fuel technology problem is not directly tied to liquid fuel solutions. Though it is informative.

    There was no follow-up to this experiment, which means it was a failure
     
    No.

    Successful projects often lose out on 2nd & 3rd round finding for political reasons. Sad. But True.
    ____

    I looked at the crazy fear site that you cited earlier:

    https://thoriumnuclear.wordpress.com/
     
    It has not been updated since April 2016. According to your own logic, updates have been discontinued. Therefore, it is no longer in operation and thus is *by your own definition* a failure.

    I did skim it briefly. Most of the panic is over "Thorium as a carcinogen". While true, the hysteria on the site was quite sad. Given that Thorium comes out of the ground as waste from rare earth mining, getting rid of the waste by destroying via fuel use it makes the situation better.

    Most of the other points I saw are known and admitted inconveniences. Not disqualifying barriers. The primary impediments are governmental and emotional, not scientific or engineering.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://ife.no/en/project/the-halden-reactor-project/

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Halden was closed after a string of failures, of which that of 2016 was the last one AFAIK.

    Closing research project does not mean closing reactor; that are two different matters. Therefore closing the Halden reactor in 2018 does not necessarily mean the research project was run successfully. Anyway, secrecy which clouded it after the 2016 class 2 nuclear incident is rather telling.

    Commercial Thorium reactors are still more theoretical than real possibility

    • LOL: A123
  158. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, we know the Jews, both male and female, are responsible - that much is obvious. But above you sounded a new note, that "their" women - the women of White men, whose only sin was being complacent - betrayed them.

    So you were talking about White women, who betrayed, whereas White men were only guilty of a naive complacency, poor things. (One wonders where you situate all those White male philosophers, artists, and thinkers who advanced the cause of decadence - like Macdonald, they seem invisible to you in the story of Western decline :) )

    Do you remember commenter Rosie? She was this female White nationalist who used to post on Audacious Epigones blog, and often Sailers and other blogs. She was intelligent and rather inoffensive, I thought, but for some reason she was viciously persecuted by the boys on that on other parts of this site. I never really understood why they hated her so. She hated Jews, but even I wasn't as mean to her as they were.

    But as a general principle, I once tried explaining to her that once you let the genie of "othering" out of the bottle, it does not stop at gender. In fact, gender is one of the primary divisions and examples of "othering" available to the human species - each gender is rather mysterious and confusing to the other, lol.

    A society that hates Jews and minorities is going to be misogynistic, simply because all "others" are suspect to the majority power holders. And it's no accident that women's liberation went in tandem with anti-racism.

    Can there be a "sweet spot" for "othering", so that you limit it to other races but not to the opposite gender? So far signs are not promising, and I don't know. Can one fine tune these things I winder. Maybe.

    But I guess we shall see :) All sorts of interesting anthropological experiments are beginning to take place - no group identity has ever in the past been founded primarily on race, but that is being attempted to.

    We shall see.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    the women of White men

    Feminism. Women Rights. My body my choice.

    Not yet human.

    TFR ~ 1…

    Divorce rate for an American marriage.

    Sexual promiscuity.

    Children born out of wedlock.

    Happy St. Valentine’s Day !

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    I think you may want to develop a more sophisticated notion of agency - are any of us really to blame for our delusions?

    Western women grew up in a culture where the Gods have been dethroned - a culture that told her that reality is composed of dead matter and that life is best compared to a mechanical machine.

    Who created this culture? A rather long line of male European philosophers and thinkers - and yet, are they "guilty", or did they fall into a delusion? And was it incremental, mistake following mistake, and collective?

    Moreover, Western women grew up in a culture that only valued masculine power as expressed through technology and the domination of nature - it had no use for the softer feminine qualities.

    How were they to respond to that? One can talk about women's liberation all one wants, but in a culture where technology and the domination of nature is the dominant mode of engaging with reality, every young girl gets the message about what society really respects and what qualities she should develop on herself.

    But who is responsible for all this? Men? Women? Jews? Westerners?

    What exactly are we fighting - flesh and blood?

    And how, by the way, are men doing - any better?

    And what about the growing listlessness and nihilism of East Asia? The nihilistic violence of the Middle East?

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Women are more promiscuous than men, and their strategy is mating-up: early mating has polygamic structure, resulting in fewer men having more sex, and more men having less sex - the fact is well reflected not only through phenomenon of groupies but in the little noted fact that more young women than young men will have typical heterosexual veneral diseases (if you take into account that a fraction of men are gays, this statistically visible polygamy is even more pronounced) - one man will have sex with many women, who are thus lost for other men. Thus the wisdom of old cultures which always chaperoned young women.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/622809/gonorrhea-rate-in-the-us-by-age-and-sex/

    Such early polygamic promiscuity does not suits well monogamic marriages (creating a shadow of an ideal lover a woman once had - together with many other women; on the male side, it could create resentment of the not-ideal-lovers class, also not useful for marriage building), which maybe should be polygamic too in order to accommodate women unbridled preferences. So I am afraid women did not betray white men, they never really coveted them except few alpha cases!

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok. So maybe worshipping Nature is not so good after all...?!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow's aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

  159. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr Hack, simple-minded doesn't mean stupid.

    😄

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    So now I’m “stupid” for my opinion (and a few others here who happened to support my comment).

    Hey friend, I’m only trying to have a good conversation with you – I expect better from you!

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Nowhere have I written that you are stupid Mr Hack. But ignoring everything that in the last 8 years preceded the outright war between RusFed and Ukiestan would indeed been stupid on my part.

    I have always been the one who was the most dismissive of Pynya's "geopolitical genius" and RusFed's "might" on this forum. I remember AP writing that Pynya was doing the right thing for Russian people, while I was always of the opposite opinion. I remember AK being dismissive of me writing that RusFed was corrupt to the bone and weakened. The only thing I got wrong is the degree to which it was rotten and corrupt. It is way worse than I would have thought possible.

    I am against this was, always was since 2014. And I always considered and always will that the responsibility for its start lies equally with RusFed, Ukiestan and Western sociopathic elites. That are Globalist, all of them.

    And yes, I would prefer keeping as many as possible Eastern Slav genetic lineages alive and well, growing towards a better future, but hey who am I to decide for them if they decided otherwise ?

    We are entering a population bottleneck, only a fraction of our lineages will emerge on the other side. I will do what I can to ensure that mine goes on. And good luck to anyone else's.

    🙂

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  160. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about...or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.

    3/4 of the carrying capacity was exploded away.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!
     
    For the last time, retard. HALF of the pipeline Russia "wanted" open is open. Obviously volume brings money and Russia in no way benefits from........can't be bothered explaining this idiocy

    Russia, clearly, wanted NS1 & NS2 opened and in operation. What they did not want open is the GTS of Ukraine /404 open.....and guess what - its the one that the lemming-slave-prostitute nazis in Ukraine are refusing to touch. The idea of "feeding the Kremlin's war economy" goes into a mysterious blackhole.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

  161. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the women of White men
     
    Feminism. Women Rights. My body my choice.

    https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/bbb0b03df5094073b8ba258d71bd1ec7/3000.jpeg

    Not yet human.

    https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/rockcms/2022-06/220623-roe-v-wade-abortion-scotus-protest-2-se-805p-2ef18c.jpg

    TFR ~ 1...

    Divorce rate for an American marriage.

    https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/07/Share-of-marriages-end-in-divorces-in-US-Stevenson-Wolfers-800x545.png

    Sexual promiscuity.

    https://cdn-adklk.nitrocdn.com/vAlLOcBPjCSUTuqFpgWoGejnngKOaInw/assets/images/optimized/rev-fc9d120/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Here_s-the-list-of-states-in-the-U.S.-with-the-highest-averages..jpg

    Children born out of wedlock.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/figure14-w640.png

    Happy St. Valentine's Day !

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    I think you may want to develop a more sophisticated notion of agency – are any of us really to blame for our delusions?

    Western women grew up in a culture where the Gods have been dethroned – a culture that told her that reality is composed of dead matter and that life is best compared to a mechanical machine.

    Who created this culture? A rather long line of male European philosophers and thinkers – and yet, are they “guilty”, or did they fall into a delusion? And was it incremental, mistake following mistake, and collective?

    Moreover, Western women grew up in a culture that only valued masculine power as expressed through technology and the domination of nature – it had no use for the softer feminine qualities.

    How were they to respond to that? One can talk about women’s liberation all one wants, but in a culture where technology and the domination of nature is the dominant mode of engaging with reality, every young girl gets the message about what society really respects and what qualities she should develop on herself.

    But who is responsible for all this? Men? Women? Jews? Westerners?

    What exactly are we fighting – flesh and blood?

    And how, by the way, are men doing – any better?

    And what about the growing listlessness and nihilism of East Asia? The nihilistic violence of the Middle East?

  162. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    By associating “masculinity” with the basic elements of thought, I was hoping to prompt you to learn how to think.
     
    Are you sure that is not how you became a tranny?

    I was hoping you would actually give us your definition of masculinity. Does your idea of it not have any fixed qualities?

    It is a cliché that someone like you will find attention to your inner life demonic.
     
    Why so anti-religious? Thought that there were a lot of churches and synagogues accepting gays and trannies now.

    Zimbardo (one of your party who fell into disrepute) outright said that he didn't believe in a soul. IIRC, you said you did (probably a dodge to avoid the stigma of not believing in one), but your strange attempt to redefine masculinity seems to show you don't, which is further underlined by your professed belief that you can dissect anyone's brain and see inside their thoughts. Not guess (which everyone enjoys doing), but actually observe their inner self, and then change it. Not just one person that you have rapport with, but anyone here.

    I think there is something Satanic in your confidence, and I don't mind saying so. Maybe, it is simple narcissism, but compounded by new age beliefs.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Your ability to see me is zero, whereas I have no barriers between my conscious, what would be my unconscious, the unconscious and yours. Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in. My confidence comes from direct perception. Where does your fear come from?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Your ability to see me is zero
     
    The Shadow could also turn invisible by some trick of hypnotism. But, IIRC, he was originally voiced by Orson Welles, and it had some kind of modulation effect, so it was believable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow

    https://youtu.be/wMk-CA_Gi7o
    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in.
     
    You seem to be saying that you can enter into people's souls at will and sift through them and correct their deficiencies.

    Am no expert on heresy, but sounds like a big one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Engineers_of_the_human_soul

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  163. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    So now I'm "stupid" for my opinion (and a few others here who happened to support my comment).

    Hey friend, I'm only trying to have a good conversation with you - I expect better from you!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Nowhere have I written that you are stupid Mr Hack. But ignoring everything that in the last 8 years preceded the outright war between RusFed and Ukiestan would indeed been stupid on my part.

    I have always been the one who was the most dismissive of Pynya’s “geopolitical genius” and RusFed’s “might” on this forum. I remember AP writing that Pynya was doing the right thing for Russian people, while I was always of the opposite opinion. I remember AK being dismissive of me writing that RusFed was corrupt to the bone and weakened. The only thing I got wrong is the degree to which it was rotten and corrupt. It is way worse than I would have thought possible.

    I am against this was, always was since 2014. And I always considered and always will that the responsibility for its start lies equally with RusFed, Ukiestan and Western sociopathic elites. That are Globalist, all of them.

    And yes, I would prefer keeping as many as possible Eastern Slav genetic lineages alive and well, growing towards a better future, but hey who am I to decide for them if they decided otherwise ?

    We are entering a population bottleneck, only a fraction of our lineages will emerge on the other side. I will do what I can to ensure that mine goes on. And good luck to anyone else’s.

    🙂

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    That's much better, more in line with what I 've come to expect from you.

    I may not always agree with you, but I always respect your opinions!

  164. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your ability to see me is zero, whereas I have no barriers between my conscious, what would be my unconscious, the unconscious and yours. Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in. My confidence comes from direct perception. Where does your fear come from?

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    Your ability to see me is zero

    The Shadow could also turn invisible by some trick of hypnotism. But, IIRC, he was originally voiced by Orson Welles, and it had some kind of modulation effect, so it was believable.

  165. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the women of White men
     
    Feminism. Women Rights. My body my choice.

    https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/bbb0b03df5094073b8ba258d71bd1ec7/3000.jpeg

    Not yet human.

    https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/rockcms/2022-06/220623-roe-v-wade-abortion-scotus-protest-2-se-805p-2ef18c.jpg

    TFR ~ 1...

    Divorce rate for an American marriage.

    https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/07/Share-of-marriages-end-in-divorces-in-US-Stevenson-Wolfers-800x545.png

    Sexual promiscuity.

    https://cdn-adklk.nitrocdn.com/vAlLOcBPjCSUTuqFpgWoGejnngKOaInw/assets/images/optimized/rev-fc9d120/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Here_s-the-list-of-states-in-the-U.S.-with-the-highest-averages..jpg

    Children born out of wedlock.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/figure14-w640.png

    Happy St. Valentine's Day !

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Women are more promiscuous than men, and their strategy is mating-up: early mating has polygamic structure, resulting in fewer men having more sex, and more men having less sex – the fact is well reflected not only through phenomenon of groupies but in the little noted fact that more young women than young men will have typical heterosexual veneral diseases (if you take into account that a fraction of men are gays, this statistically visible polygamy is even more pronounced) – one man will have sex with many women, who are thus lost for other men. Thus the wisdom of old cultures which always chaperoned young women.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/622809/gonorrhea-rate-in-the-us-by-age-and-sex/

    Such early polygamic promiscuity does not suits well monogamic marriages (creating a shadow of an ideal lover a woman once had – together with many other women; on the male side, it could create resentment of the not-ideal-lovers class, also not useful for marriage building), which maybe should be polygamic too in order to accommodate women unbridled preferences. So I am afraid women did not betray white men, they never really coveted them except few alpha cases!

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok. So maybe worshipping Nature is not so good after all…?!

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If I remember well, Houllebecq book "The Extension Of War Zone" ( Extension du domaine de la lutte) was about this. When I read it, I wasn't sure how real was the phenomenon, but apparently statistics (indirectly of course, since the average number of sexual partners per person can be misleading, as some have 1 and some have 20 which again is visible in the statistics of veneral diseases) are on Houllebecq's side
    I also remember that in the book it was a Jewish character who was incel, which I took as parody (of the meme of Jewish sexual revolution) or/and commentary on the death of Judeochristian monogamy ;(

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I thought we worshipped "choice"? In other words, absolutely undetermined freedom to choose anything without any horizon determining the direction of our wills? Isn't that modernity?

    Traditionally, it was thought our wills were naturally oriented towards the Good - a rational being was not absolutely free to choose anything, but would only want to choose the Good.

    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything - creatures whose nature's determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not "free", although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good (someone whose faculties were impaired, and who chose the bad, was considered "unfree", under a constraint preventing him from doing what he would naturally want to do, choose the Good).

    But isn't a will not oriented towards the Good, but just randomly acting, the purest expression of nihilism? Random actions undetermined by a particular horizon are meaningless events, not rational acts, just chance events that have no leaning, like a muscular tic.

    Worshipping Nature would be a will oriented towards a particular horizon, a determined will and not "free" in the modern sense, and also not nihilistic (although problematic in other ways if not modified by an understanding of what's Good in nature).

    In fact, we worship the Nothing - and not the good "nothing" of the mystics which is actually the incomprehensible plenitude of Being, but genuine nothing, the nihil of emptiness.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.
     
    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we're all Calhoun's mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry, @Dmitry

  166. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Your ability to see me is zero, whereas I have no barriers between my conscious, what would be my unconscious, the unconscious and yours. Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in. My confidence comes from direct perception. Where does your fear come from?

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in.

    You seem to be saying that you can enter into people’s souls at will and sift through them and correct their deficiencies.

    Am no expert on heresy, but sounds like a big one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Engineers_of_the_human_soul

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    You can't travel anyone's journey for them. That would be the heresy. It would take away their free will.

  167. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    Nowhere have I written that you are stupid Mr Hack. But ignoring everything that in the last 8 years preceded the outright war between RusFed and Ukiestan would indeed been stupid on my part.

    I have always been the one who was the most dismissive of Pynya's "geopolitical genius" and RusFed's "might" on this forum. I remember AP writing that Pynya was doing the right thing for Russian people, while I was always of the opposite opinion. I remember AK being dismissive of me writing that RusFed was corrupt to the bone and weakened. The only thing I got wrong is the degree to which it was rotten and corrupt. It is way worse than I would have thought possible.

    I am against this was, always was since 2014. And I always considered and always will that the responsibility for its start lies equally with RusFed, Ukiestan and Western sociopathic elites. That are Globalist, all of them.

    And yes, I would prefer keeping as many as possible Eastern Slav genetic lineages alive and well, growing towards a better future, but hey who am I to decide for them if they decided otherwise ?

    We are entering a population bottleneck, only a fraction of our lineages will emerge on the other side. I will do what I can to ensure that mine goes on. And good luck to anyone else's.

    🙂

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    That’s much better, more in line with what I ‘ve come to expect from you.

    I may not always agree with you, but I always respect your opinions!

    • Agree: AP
  168. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    taken together I feel this kills inspiration.
     
    Taken together it kills the Western middle class and its way of living. It is a societal regression and a cultural genocide in making.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Taken together it kills the Western middle class and its way of living. It is a societal regression and a cultural genocide in making.

    Likely the potential for this is why there is the current level of control over engaging with it culturally.

    I was working in an arts related field myself and for a long time (my adult life till then really) my interests were more on religious traditions and consumer society, I was maybe becoming more curious about Northern European themes because of spending time in the Baltic and Belarus.

    Seeing mainstream demographic projections in around 2019 got me more interested in major ethnic and cultural change and after the 2020 events it became the main thing I was thinking about. But it’s hard to do anything with that theme at present if you need to earn a living.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  169. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Women are more promiscuous than men, and their strategy is mating-up: early mating has polygamic structure, resulting in fewer men having more sex, and more men having less sex - the fact is well reflected not only through phenomenon of groupies but in the little noted fact that more young women than young men will have typical heterosexual veneral diseases (if you take into account that a fraction of men are gays, this statistically visible polygamy is even more pronounced) - one man will have sex with many women, who are thus lost for other men. Thus the wisdom of old cultures which always chaperoned young women.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/622809/gonorrhea-rate-in-the-us-by-age-and-sex/

    Such early polygamic promiscuity does not suits well monogamic marriages (creating a shadow of an ideal lover a woman once had - together with many other women; on the male side, it could create resentment of the not-ideal-lovers class, also not useful for marriage building), which maybe should be polygamic too in order to accommodate women unbridled preferences. So I am afraid women did not betray white men, they never really coveted them except few alpha cases!

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok. So maybe worshipping Nature is not so good after all...?!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    If I remember well, Houllebecq book “The Extension Of War Zone” ( Extension du domaine de la lutte) was about this. When I read it, I wasn’t sure how real was the phenomenon, but apparently statistics (indirectly of course, since the average number of sexual partners per person can be misleading, as some have 1 and some have 20 which again is visible in the statistics of veneral diseases) are on Houllebecq’s side
    I also remember that in the book it was a Jewish character who was incel, which I took as parody (of the meme of Jewish sexual revolution) or/and commentary on the death of Judeochristian monogamy ;(

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective


    When I read it, I wasn’t sure how real was the phenomenon...
     
    I read it when I was about 19, it felt like there was some truth to it just from personal observation. This was more than 20 years ago, afaik before the 'Red Pill' movement started and when data to back it up wasn't easily available.

    It has the classic passage:


    Decidedly, I told myself, in our societies sex represents very much a secondary system of differentiation, wholly independent from that of money. It brings with it a system of differentiation that is just as pitiless. Besides the effects of these two systems are strictly equivalent. In the same way as unlimited economic liberalism, and for analogous reasons, unlimited sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperisation. Some make love every day, some five or six times in their life and some never. Some make love to dozens of women and some to none...
     
    I didn't notice the incel guy being Jewish, I remember that he is described as short, swarthy and looking frog like, iirc the narrator draws a comparison between him and a 6'4" chisel jaw Nordic guy he also works with and comments on the differing sexual market value.

    There is a section where the narrator meets one of his old friends who is a Catholic priest in an inner city parish and I recall the priest makes some over enthusiastic comments on the vitality of the era of Louis XIV compared to the present, but the narrator doesn't take it further.

  170. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!

    For the last time, retard. HALF of the pipeline Russia “wanted” open is open. Obviously volume brings money and Russia in no way benefits from……..can’t be bothered explaining this idiocy

    Russia, clearly, wanted NS1 & NS2 opened and in operation. What they did not want open is the GTS of Ukraine /404 open…..and guess what – its the one that the lemming-slave-prostitute nazis in Ukraine are refusing to touch. The idea of “feeding the Kremlin’s war economy” goes into a mysterious blackhole.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn't want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany's objections.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    Funny that isn’t it? The one umbilical cord to Moscow they don’t sever. Just everyone else’s.

  171. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    О Господи...

    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan...

    LOL !

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?

    😉

    Replies: @AP

    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan…

    History repeating as farce, but still repeating. Muscovy/Russia consistently follows a template, which is hard to break, even if Khans have been Germans, or that Georgian. Larping as wigged European aristocrats, Byzantine emperors, saviours and dictators of proles, etc.

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?

    That’s what Bykov was writing. But that pattern has not been maintained since Sviatoslav. Rather, Ze’s (ex?) sponsor had stepped into the traditional role of magnate, in a system whose democratic instincts (so different from Russia’s inevitable Asiatic despotism) continue the Rzeczpospolita’s legacy.

    These two political ways are incompatible, and thus the deadly friction until there is a permanent break and Russia leave Ukraine alone, and focuses eastward.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The Jew King of Kiev either way you slice it.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father's time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations. Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified "one size fits all" approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea.

    He was an intelligent person. If Ukrainian political circles would have headed his advice, there would have been no war.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

  172. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Women are more promiscuous than men, and their strategy is mating-up: early mating has polygamic structure, resulting in fewer men having more sex, and more men having less sex - the fact is well reflected not only through phenomenon of groupies but in the little noted fact that more young women than young men will have typical heterosexual veneral diseases (if you take into account that a fraction of men are gays, this statistically visible polygamy is even more pronounced) - one man will have sex with many women, who are thus lost for other men. Thus the wisdom of old cultures which always chaperoned young women.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/622809/gonorrhea-rate-in-the-us-by-age-and-sex/

    Such early polygamic promiscuity does not suits well monogamic marriages (creating a shadow of an ideal lover a woman once had - together with many other women; on the male side, it could create resentment of the not-ideal-lovers class, also not useful for marriage building), which maybe should be polygamic too in order to accommodate women unbridled preferences. So I am afraid women did not betray white men, they never really coveted them except few alpha cases!

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok. So maybe worshipping Nature is not so good after all...?!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    I thought we worshipped “choice”? In other words, absolutely undetermined freedom to choose anything without any horizon determining the direction of our wills? Isn’t that modernity?

    Traditionally, it was thought our wills were naturally oriented towards the Good – a rational being was not absolutely free to choose anything, but would only want to choose the Good.

    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything – creatures whose nature’s determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not “free”, although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good (someone whose faculties were impaired, and who chose the bad, was considered “unfree”, under a constraint preventing him from doing what he would naturally want to do, choose the Good).

    But isn’t a will not oriented towards the Good, but just randomly acting, the purest expression of nihilism? Random actions undetermined by a particular horizon are meaningless events, not rational acts, just chance events that have no leaning, like a muscular tic.

    Worshipping Nature would be a will oriented towards a particular horizon, a determined will and not “free” in the modern sense, and also not nihilistic (although problematic in other ways if not modified by an understanding of what’s Good in nature).

    In fact, we worship the Nothing – and not the good “nothing” of the mystics which is actually the incomprehensible plenitude of Being, but genuine nothing, the nihil of emptiness.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything – creatures whose nature’s determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not “free”, although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good...
     
    This got me thinking about Rousseau, it's been said that he took the idea of the Catholic Beatific Vision (or possibly human life after the Second Coming) and applied it to his imagined primeval state of nature before humanity was corrupted by social life and civilisation. Rousseau seems to have believed he had rediscovered this state via his sincerity and introspection, and it made him '...the best of men'. Like a sort of reductio and deist version of radical 'inner light' Protestantism.

    It's also often linked to the way Hume's scepticism had undermined belief in Natural Law and the traditional metaphysical arguments for God's existence and nature. Famously one of the implications was that morality and value judgements could only be based on sentiment and emotion. I think Helvetius was making some similar arguments in the Francophone world at the same time.

    You can see how Jean Jacquesism might have taken on in the post-Hume period.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  173. @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!
     
    For the last time, retard. HALF of the pipeline Russia "wanted" open is open. Obviously volume brings money and Russia in no way benefits from........can't be bothered explaining this idiocy

    Russia, clearly, wanted NS1 & NS2 opened and in operation. What they did not want open is the GTS of Ukraine /404 open.....and guess what - its the one that the lemming-slave-prostitute nazis in Ukraine are refusing to touch. The idea of "feeding the Kremlin's war economy" goes into a mysterious blackhole.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

  174. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Of course I believe in a soul. That is the world I am at home in.
     
    You seem to be saying that you can enter into people's souls at will and sift through them and correct their deficiencies.

    Am no expert on heresy, but sounds like a big one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Engineers_of_the_human_soul

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    You can’t travel anyone’s journey for them. That would be the heresy. It would take away their free will.

  175. @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    What a coincidence that the pipeline that Russian wanted open is still able to be open as they wanted, and the one they wanted closed is now forever closed!
     
    For the last time, retard. HALF of the pipeline Russia "wanted" open is open. Obviously volume brings money and Russia in no way benefits from........can't be bothered explaining this idiocy

    Russia, clearly, wanted NS1 & NS2 opened and in operation. What they did not want open is the GTS of Ukraine /404 open.....and guess what - its the one that the lemming-slave-prostitute nazis in Ukraine are refusing to touch. The idea of "feeding the Kremlin's war economy" goes into a mysterious blackhole.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    Funny that isn’t it? The one umbilical cord to Moscow they don’t sever. Just everyone else’s.

  176. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about...or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.

    3/4 of the carrying capacity was exploded away.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about…or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.

    We have still seen no evidence of explosives. That is based on anonymous sources.

    Three pipes ruptured in a manner consistent with a heavy industrial accident.

    What could happen if Russia dropped pressure at the fill end to reverse flow & recovery salable material?

    • The operators opened valves at their end 1,200 km from Germany.
    • Hydrate slug #1 created a rupture.
    • Hydrate slug #2 quickly followed, resembling a single event.
    • Pipe #3 had a pressure differential end to end 1,200 km. 17 hours lucky it had a slug movement & rupture.
    • Pipe #4 luck smiled, no issue

    If the operators were clever, they may have been trying to repressurize their end of pipes #3 and #4.

    Unfortunately, it is sort of like the CCP’s lab at WIV. We will never get an opportunity to thoroughly investigate.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?

    Replies: @A123

  177. Gerard’s frequent use of the word “cretin” has caused me to become interested in its etymology. Theory seems somewhat tenuous but interesting:

    cretin (n.)
    1779, from French crétin (18c.), from Alpine dialect crestin, “a dwarfed and deformed idiot” of a type formerly found in families in the Alpine lands, a condition caused by a congenital deficiency of thyroid hormones. The word is of uncertain origin. By many it has been identified with Vulgar Latin *christianus “a Christian,” a generic term for “anyone,” but often with a sense of “poor fellow.” Related: Cretinism (1796).

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  178. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    the women of White men
     
    Feminism. Women Rights. My body my choice.

    https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/bbb0b03df5094073b8ba258d71bd1ec7/3000.jpeg

    Not yet human.

    https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/rockcms/2022-06/220623-roe-v-wade-abortion-scotus-protest-2-se-805p-2ef18c.jpg

    TFR ~ 1...

    Divorce rate for an American marriage.

    https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/07/Share-of-marriages-end-in-divorces-in-US-Stevenson-Wolfers-800x545.png

    Sexual promiscuity.

    https://cdn-adklk.nitrocdn.com/vAlLOcBPjCSUTuqFpgWoGejnngKOaInw/assets/images/optimized/rev-fc9d120/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Here_s-the-list-of-states-in-the-U.S.-with-the-highest-averages..jpg

    Children born out of wedlock.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/figure14-w640.png

    Happy St. Valentine's Day !

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, they aren't Dragon-bloodlines for nothing...?

    Caveat: I do not watch this series, but I heard dragons are important there.

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    It was a twist to do with the circumstances of Snow's birth, and therefore probably related to the biggest twist in the series. In the books, the fact that the Targaryens marry their siblings is extensively detailed.

    , @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.
     
    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.

    But they say that Charles II of Spain was more inbred than if his parents were normal brother and sister, and supposedly, his sister was a beautiful woman, even though he was ugly. Previously, I've theorized here that incest might have a worse effect on male births.

    Wonder what embryo selection would do to the congenital pathologies associated with incest.

    How many embryos would you need to select to cancel out or minimize the effects of first cousin marriage (non double)? Am guessing it wouldn't be that many.

    Also, just for the heck of it, wonder how far one could get with doing it for siblings. How difficult to reduce the risk to be equivalent to first cousin marriage? And what is the max you could do with iterative selection for siblings?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I would guess they are more stable. At least they are more so in Yemen and Afghanistan. 🙂

  179. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    All I asked was if that’s what you truly believe or it’s just your wishful thinking.
     
    Why would I wish for others becoming engulfed in violence and suffering ? No sane person would. I am a fool, but I am not a sociopath.

    I neither prefer nor wish this. Do not misconstrue my words. Ukrainian people know very well who their friends are.
     
    Their friends are those who wish for this war to end. Not the ones who are cheering for the slaughter.

    Dream on.
     
    Again, why would I dream for something so vile ? Do I come accross in my comments as someone who would like to see other people suffering?

    But one has to be logical and consequential, follow the dots: Baltics are in NATO and quite close to Kaliningrad and Belarus. If Belarus is dragged into the war, then the violence would probably be spilling to Kaliningrad accross the Suwalki Gap.

    It means fighting between Belarus & RusFed on one side and Ukraine, Poland and Baltics on the other. I know that East Europeans think that the West would come to the rescue of their Eastern NATO members. But the West has its own problems. The West might well decide to leave the Balto-Slav sort it out. If I was Western I would not want my people to die for the Suwalki Gap. Just like I don't want the Balto-Slav that I consider as my people to die in retarded wars under Western patronage.

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.

    You must have skipped my comments during the past year. But that’s OK, we all have a life outside of this blog.

    Btw, LatW also had a hard time understanding how I can be so opposed to Putin’s war now when I was equally opposed to Ukraine’s actions in Donbas. It’s a strange thing, actually. I used to think that we Euros have a common general view of life and the world. I actually experienced this first hand when I lived in Chile. I met many expats from Europe and the US, including even a couple of Belarussian acquaintances who tried their luck in Chile and stayed at my house for some months. I always found that it was much easier to find rapport with fellow Europeans, even from the opposite side of the continent, than with the locals.

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches). But reality has shown me that this was an illusion. LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas. In fact, I feel like my non-religious but ethical approach to the question of war probably resonates more with non-Europeans these days than with fellow Euros. From what I read here and there, I have the impression that, unlike most Westerners, non-Euros are just aghast at the war that was once again started in Europe, hoping that it doesn’t affect them too much and in general not feeling much need to take sides.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Mikel


    LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas
     
    All depends what you are willing to put up with. Re General Milley's recent remarks that Russia has after one year lost strategically, operationally and tactically in its brutal and illegal invasion, while that is true the invasion was most certainly not as Miley alleges "unprovoked."

    It may have been illegal and brutal, but it was not unprovoked. Russia warned they would not stand for Ukraine getting close to the American led anti Russian military alliance known as Nato, and the top US diplomat in Moscow (now head of the CIA) told the White House that Russia was serious. The invasion came after the US and Ukraine knowingly challenged the Kremlin, which set out to show that Russia was not the sort of country that could be affronted with impunity .

    , @sudden death
    @Mikel


    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches).
     
    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war, because if not RF'ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya after the most recent independence referendum there.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    You're right Mikel. You have also been a voice for peace and sanity. I apologize for having omitted mentioning that.

    Re. the acceptability of war in Europe. I think we are undergoing a regression of social norms. My opinion is that it started in the West in 2001 after the Twin Towers attack. It started in the former USSR earlier in late 80ies and early 90ies with all the ethnic strife and the criminal and political violence.

    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don't think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. Progress has deprived them from that, the regression & archaization would probably bring it back.

    Replies: @Mikel

  180. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow's aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    Well, they aren’t Dragon-bloodlines for nothing…?

    Caveat: I do not watch this series, but I heard dragons are important there.

  181. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan…
     
    History repeating as farce, but still repeating. Muscovy/Russia consistently follows a template, which is hard to break, even if Khans have been Germans, or that Georgian. Larping as wigged European aristocrats, Byzantine emperors, saviours and dictators of proles, etc.

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?
     
    That’s what Bykov was writing. But that pattern has not been maintained since Sviatoslav. Rather, Ze’s (ex?) sponsor had stepped into the traditional role of magnate, in a system whose democratic instincts (so different from Russia’s inevitable Asiatic despotism) continue the Rzeczpospolita’s legacy.

    These two political ways are incompatible, and thus the deadly friction until there is a permanent break and Russia leave Ukraine alone, and focuses eastward.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool

    The Jew King of Kiev either way you slice it.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke

    How was Britain under Disraeli?

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

  182. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    The Jew King of Kiev either way you slice it.

    Replies: @AP

    How was Britain under Disraeli?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    How was Britain under Disraeli?
     
    Disraeli stirred-up anti-Irish animus, in order to prevaricate and dissimulate about his true identity and allegiance:

    https://twitter.com/blackrepublican/status/844767698009505792?s=20&t=YS2SlZDVRLrXxsVmRh2Fzg

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1584853051105738754?s=20&t=YS2SlZDVRLrXxsVmRh2Fzg
    , @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Disraeli’s government fell when the Redcoats in Islandwana were nigger rushed by the Zulus.

    "A very remarkable people the Zulu. They defeat our generals; they convert our bishops; they have settled the fate of a great European dynasty." Here he is referring to the death in combat of Prince Louis Napoleon at Islandwana in a battle he instigated. It also ended Disraeli.

    Disraeli also had the hots for Zulus after they crushed Lord Chelmsford’s encampment.


    Disraeli did indeed encourage anti Irish sentiment.

  183. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow's aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    It was a twist to do with the circumstances of Snow’s birth, and therefore probably related to the biggest twist in the series. In the books, the fact that the Targaryens marry their siblings is extensively detailed.

  184. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    How was Britain under Disraeli?

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    How was Britain under Disraeli?

    Disraeli stirred-up anti-Irish animus, in order to prevaricate and dissimulate about his true identity and allegiance:

    [MORE]

  185. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow's aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.

    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.

    But they say that Charles II of Spain was more inbred than if his parents were normal brother and sister, and supposedly, his sister was a beautiful woman, even though he was ugly. Previously, I’ve theorized here that incest might have a worse effect on male births.

    Wonder what embryo selection would do to the congenital pathologies associated with incest.

    How many embryos would you need to select to cancel out or minimize the effects of first cousin marriage (non double)? Am guessing it wouldn’t be that many.

    Also, just for the heck of it, wonder how far one could get with doing it for siblings. How difficult to reduce the risk to be equivalent to first cousin marriage? And what is the max you could do with iterative selection for siblings?

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The days of telling your daughter who to marry are over with so the question is moot.

    I read a good old biologist who said humans are instinctively perpetually asexual towards other humans they were closely familiar with aged 3-7. My own personal data collection provides no argument contra to this. I had a stepsister who was hot enough and I never had any attraction towards her at all even when my hormone flux was 11 on a scale of 10. I have a cousin that might even be acceptable by Yahya's elite criteria.

    Again absolute zippo.

    The people who write Game of Thrones &c seem oblivious to this however or I could be completely erroneous.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @A123
    @songbird



    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.
     
    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.
     
    Bringing back Drogo rendered Daenerys sterile, "only death can pay for life". She admits this in a TV episode. In terms of reproductive genetics, the overlapping lineage with Jon Snow (a.k.a. Jon Targaryen) is not relevant.

    This should have been handled better in TV season 8. Setting up a new royal family that cannot have an heir is absurd for the universe as established. Assuming George RR Martin lives long enough to finish the novels, we should find out more in a few years.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

  186. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    How was Britain under Disraeli?

    Replies: @songbird, @Wokechoke

    Disraeli’s government fell when the Redcoats in Islandwana were nigger rushed by the Zulus.

    “A very remarkable people the Zulu. They defeat our generals; they convert our bishops; they have settled the fate of a great European dynasty.” Here he is referring to the death in combat of Prince Louis Napoleon at Islandwana in a battle he instigated. It also ended Disraeli.

    Disraeli also had the hots for Zulus after they crushed Lord Chelmsford’s encampment.

    Disraeli did indeed encourage anti Irish sentiment.

  187. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more
     
    Luka is wily, or, to be exact, he is best described by my grandma’s phrase in Ukrainian “дурний, та хитрий” (stupid, but cunning). For many years he tried to maneuver between the RF, China, and the EU to maximize goodies Belarus gets from all sides (Belarus cannot live as well as it does on its own resources). However, the West made a strategic mistake in Belarus: instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him. Luka is not a coward, like Ukrainian Yanuk, he did not surrender before the battle was lost, but fought back vigorously and prevailed. Net result: Western morons pushed him into Putin’s camp. Today Putin firmly holds his balls in his hand and can squeeze as hard as he needs. What’s more, now Luka has nothing to loose: Belarus is already under a bunch of idiotic Western sanctions. So, if Putin wants Belarus to join the RF in Ukraine, he is going to get his wish. Whether he wants it is another question.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

    instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him.

    No. Lukashenko just overplayed his hand by first imprisoning opposition candidates on trumped-up charges and then publishing elections results that nobody over 10 years of age could believe in, although you seemed to believe that the Kherson and Zaporizhia referendums were legitimate, but well, the thing is that lots of people in Belarus weren’t so gullible and reacted strongly in the streets. The West did try to meddle, of course, but you make it sound like some CIA operatives went to Belarus and arranged a revolution out of the blue. Western intervention in the Belarus election crisis was in fact much more subdued than during the Maidan uprising.

    However, it is possibly a good thing that the protests didn’t go too far and eventually calmed down with no bloodbath. The average person in Belarus is probably better off under a dictatorial regime than in a state of chaos and armed conflict like their southern neighbors. Besides, it is not very clear that a Jeffersonian democracy is the optimal social arrangement among Eastern Slavs. I’m not sure it has ever worked very well there.

    Luka has nothing to loose

    His throne and maybe even his head if a stream of coffins starts coming to their families from Ukraine a few years after he showed the middle finger to the people who voted in the elections.

    • Agree: Coconuts
  188. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.
     
    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.

    But they say that Charles II of Spain was more inbred than if his parents were normal brother and sister, and supposedly, his sister was a beautiful woman, even though he was ugly. Previously, I've theorized here that incest might have a worse effect on male births.

    Wonder what embryo selection would do to the congenital pathologies associated with incest.

    How many embryos would you need to select to cancel out or minimize the effects of first cousin marriage (non double)? Am guessing it wouldn't be that many.

    Also, just for the heck of it, wonder how far one could get with doing it for siblings. How difficult to reduce the risk to be equivalent to first cousin marriage? And what is the max you could do with iterative selection for siblings?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    The days of telling your daughter who to marry are over with so the question is moot.

    I read a good old biologist who said humans are instinctively perpetually asexual towards other humans they were closely familiar with aged 3-7. My own personal data collection provides no argument contra to this. I had a stepsister who was hot enough and I never had any attraction towards her at all even when my hormone flux was 11 on a scale of 10. I have a cousin that might even be acceptable by Yahya’s elite criteria.

    Again absolute zippo.

    The people who write Game of Thrones &c seem oblivious to this however or I could be completely erroneous.

    • LOL: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    The people who write Game of Thrones &c seem oblivious to this
     
    Targaryen family (lot of incest in tree) was probably based on different god-king dynasties, like the Pharaohs or Inca, where they were supposed to always marry close relatives.

    Greg Cochran once seemed to say that he thought that at least with the Ptolemies it was fake or part fake. (Too much leads to sterility) Cleopatra is described as quite a scholar, and I think beautiful? But historians could have been lying.

    Lots of theories about why George R. R. Martin (wrote the books) had so much incest in them. Some say it was because he wanted to promote genetics (such as recessive genes for controlling dragons.) Mostly think it was because he thought it was titillating. One case didn't involve dragons, but evil twins, but mentions hair color.

    Jon and Dany could possibly fall under genetic attraction theory. Wikipedia says it is bunk (and could be) but take it with a grain of salt because they do that with everything even remotely related to race.

    "You will be made to desire Lizzo."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

    Super not scientific, but I have only been very mildly attracted to one second cousin. (not that I would necessarily look at her in a room of girls) I'm laughing about the idea of them devising some sort of test to see whether everyone is lying or not.

    I had a stepsister who was hot enough and I never had any attraction towards her at all even when my hormone flux was 11 on a scale of 10.
     
    About how old were you when you first met? (<6?) Does it support this?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect
  189. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    You must have skipped my comments during the past year. But that's OK, we all have a life outside of this blog.

    Btw, LatW also had a hard time understanding how I can be so opposed to Putin's war now when I was equally opposed to Ukraine's actions in Donbas. It's a strange thing, actually. I used to think that we Euros have a common general view of life and the world. I actually experienced this first hand when I lived in Chile. I met many expats from Europe and the US, including even a couple of Belarussian acquaintances who tried their luck in Chile and stayed at my house for some months. I always found that it was much easier to find rapport with fellow Europeans, even from the opposite side of the continent, than with the locals.

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches). But reality has shown me that this was an illusion. LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas. In fact, I feel like my non-religious but ethical approach to the question of war probably resonates more with non-Europeans these days than with fellow Euros. From what I read here and there, I have the impression that, unlike most Westerners, non-Euros are just aghast at the war that was once again started in Europe, hoping that it doesn't affect them too much and in general not feeling much need to take sides.

    Replies: @Sean, @sudden death, @Ivashka the fool

    LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas

    All depends what you are willing to put up with. Re General Milley’s recent remarks that Russia has after one year lost strategically, operationally and tactically in its brutal and illegal invasion, while that is true the invasion was most certainly not as Miley alleges “unprovoked.”

    It may have been illegal and brutal, but it was not unprovoked. Russia warned they would not stand for Ukraine getting close to the American led anti Russian military alliance known as Nato, and the top US diplomat in Moscow (now head of the CIA) told the White House that Russia was serious. The invasion came after the US and Ukraine knowingly challenged the Kremlin, which set out to show that Russia was not the sort of country that could be affronted with impunity .

  190. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    You must have skipped my comments during the past year. But that's OK, we all have a life outside of this blog.

    Btw, LatW also had a hard time understanding how I can be so opposed to Putin's war now when I was equally opposed to Ukraine's actions in Donbas. It's a strange thing, actually. I used to think that we Euros have a common general view of life and the world. I actually experienced this first hand when I lived in Chile. I met many expats from Europe and the US, including even a couple of Belarussian acquaintances who tried their luck in Chile and stayed at my house for some months. I always found that it was much easier to find rapport with fellow Europeans, even from the opposite side of the continent, than with the locals.

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches). But reality has shown me that this was an illusion. LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas. In fact, I feel like my non-religious but ethical approach to the question of war probably resonates more with non-Europeans these days than with fellow Euros. From what I read here and there, I have the impression that, unlike most Westerners, non-Euros are just aghast at the war that was once again started in Europe, hoping that it doesn't affect them too much and in general not feeling much need to take sides.

    Replies: @Sean, @sudden death, @Ivashka the fool

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches).

    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war, because if not RF’ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya after the most recent independence referendum there.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @sudden death


    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war
     
    No, and you're proving my point. Regardless of who started the conflict, you always have the choice of not shooting at civilians. Ukrainian authorities decided that their country's territorial integrity was more valuable than the lives of innocent civilians living in those territories and possibly most people in Ukraine found that decision correct, or eventually came to find it inevitable, including many practicing Christians. The public in the West was carefully kept ignorant of this fact but right now I wouldn't be too surprised if many Westerners also approved of Ukraine's decision to shell civilians areas because "Russia started first".


    if not RF’ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya
     
    You're wrong. People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc. Nobody was really willing to die in Spain/Catalonia and nobody actually died. In fact, the Catalonian autonomous government had already declared the Catalan Republic in the 30s, at a time of much more political turbulence, but the rebellion also fizzled out in a couple of days when the Spanish authorities, backed by armed forces that in those days were definitely willing to kill, appeared on the scene.

    You may say that Catalans (and Basques) don't have what it takes to become independent, if you want. But how much they're willing to sacrifice for that political objective is their legitimate choice to make. ETA, that still retains plenty of support in some parts of the Basque Country, did kill around 800 people to try to achieve independence, many of them civilians and even some children, if that makes them more likeable to you, since the Spaniards started it all when they invaded the Kingdom of Navarre in the 16th century.

    Replies: @sudden death

  191. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Mr. Hack

    Ah, Mr Hack, American Thai restaurants can be quite good, but they are notorious for changing the flavor to suit American palates!

    What you eat on the streets of Bangkok is most of the time quite different - much more intense and spicy!

    Which is not to say you aren't getting some idea of the incredible flavors of Thai food in America, and even if very different it can be good in it's own right (perhaps it can be a new cuisine :) )

    One must travel to Thailand or make it oneself to get the real deal, alas. However, curries are closest to what you find in Thailand, so you can enjoy that in Phoenix :)

    Vietnamese can be quite good too and more authentic - there used to be this chain of bread and Ban Mhi shops in Phoenix that I thought was quite decent for a chain - Lees Bakery, maybe? I don't quite remember - I ate at it in Scottsdale once.

    NYC has a lot of really good Banh Mi shops :)

    Believe it or not, I've never had Borscht before - but recently I was in a part of Brooklyn that had a community from Tashkent, and I picked up a prepared Borscht soup completely on a whim - I have to confess, it was amazing! I was quite surprised. The sour flavors were unexpected but perfect. Thai soups can be excellent too.

    Here's to fermentation and the contribution it makes to deliciousness.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    much more intense and spicy!

    I can only imagine. I always get this carousel placed on my table with about 4 different types of hot spices that I can use to increase the voltage, if I think it’s necessary (and I almost always put at least a little into my main dish). If I feel a cold coming on, I put a lot on, so that I can feel the heat in the nasal cavities in my head, and stop the progression right there on the spot. 🙂

    But the nice thing about Thai food is that it doesn’t need to be very spicy at all. Flavors like peanuts, Thai basil, lemon grass, can be real tasty and are often used as the main taste profile of many dishes. Another thing about Thai food that most Americans don’t realize is that it’s a very varied sort of cuisine, changing a lot depending on the region within Thailand that you find yourself. I watch Thai food shows on the tube and have learned about this, even while I’m at some of the restaurants where they often play Thai foodie travelogs within the premises. We really are only experiencing the “tip of the iceberg”, here in the states.

    • Agree: HeavilyMarbledSteak
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Mr. Hack

    One of the fascinating things about Thailand, or Japan, or almost anywhere in Asia, is the incredible variety and extent of food, that reflects regional cuisine and just imagination.

    Walking through a Thai food market, or a Japanese, you are treated to an astonishing explosion of food variety - little stalls selling everything imaginable. It's quite a delight, what I imagine a market in Medieval Europe to have been like, before everything was "rationalized" and made "efficient" :)

    I want to write more about this - my sense is that Asia is "horizontally creative" while the West is - or has been, hopefully it's changing - "vertically creative".

    What I mean is, Asia doesn't really change so very much or invent anything really new or dramatic, but explores the incredibly rich possibilities of being human as it is now - so we all love to eat, so Asia will really get down to exploring the full range of what that might mean. Or just being human in general - Asian cities pack a maximum of human "stuff" in the space available - nothing streamlined or efficient - to create maximum entertainment for being human.

    The West on the other hand will focus on creating rather streamlined and efficient - and perhaps somewhat boring, comparatively speaking - spaces, but focus on creative "ascent" - the next big thing moving forward, etc, the next new technology or thing that will transform human life, etc.

    It's an interesting difference, but perhaps changing - I do think so. (Vertical ascent is a mistake, imo).

    And it ties into your point about regional differences in cuisine - India and China, too, have incredible regional variety, and even a relatively small country like Thailand. And that's great!

    Maximum exploration of the human condition it is now is what I favor :)

  192. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Why would an intelligent man such as yourself, write such a collection of self-righteous clichés.

    🙄

    Pynya the Muscovite khan…
     
    History repeating as farce, but still repeating. Muscovy/Russia consistently follows a template, which is hard to break, even if Khans have been Germans, or that Georgian. Larping as wigged European aristocrats, Byzantine emperors, saviours and dictators of proles, etc.

    How should we call Zelya then?

    The Kievan Khazarian Khagan ?
     
    That’s what Bykov was writing. But that pattern has not been maintained since Sviatoslav. Rather, Ze’s (ex?) sponsor had stepped into the traditional role of magnate, in a system whose democratic instincts (so different from Russia’s inevitable Asiatic despotism) continue the Rzeczpospolita’s legacy.

    These two political ways are incompatible, and thus the deadly friction until there is a permanent break and Russia leave Ukraine alone, and focuses eastward.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Ivashka the fool

    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father’s time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations. Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified “one size fits all” approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea.

    He was an intelligent person. If Ukrainian political circles would have headed his advice, there would have been no war.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    It's been a long, long time since I've read his famous political manifesto "Boomerang", and he may have been another Skoropadsky type who was all over the board depending on the time of day, but I don't remember him advocating a federative approach for Ukraine? During my college days, I was involved in getting him to come to Mpls when he first was released, even met with him privately in his hotel room after he got through with his big meeting with the whole diaspora crowd.

    This is the Valentyn Moroz that I remember:


    Moroz’s political utterances, for instance his view that Ukrainian independence should be secured by any possible means, including guerrilla war, appealed to supporters of the former guerrilla leader Stepan Bandera, but not to other sections of Canada’s Ukrainian diaspora. After the Ukrainian former political prisoner Leonid Plyushch had asserted that Ukraine needed “democracy, not fascism”, Moroz dismissed him as an “underdeveloped Ukrainian – a Jew.”[3]
     
    I don't think that he would chacterize Zelensky as such today.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentyn_Moroz
    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father’s time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.
     
    I disagree. Russia was the only Slavic state that became an Empire because it was the only one that bordered technologically backward and tribal peoples. Various Western European countries with access to such peoples via their ships also built great empires, and they had diverse governing systems - Britain, France, Spain, even the Netherlands and Portugal.

    Rzeczpospolita was in trouble because it was landlocked and surrounded. The Germans had a similar problem and despite being more numerous than Poles, their 2nd and 3rd Reichs didn’t last nearly as long as did PLC.

    Russian despotism was a product of a selection process within the Horde wherein the most loyal and collaborationist of the Rus princes monopolized power (with Tatar patronage) over those who were less loyal. This resulted in a Russian ruling class that was both close to the Tatars in terms of their political folkways and that had less loyalty to their own subjects and native traditions.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations
     
    Indeed. A federation of Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, and maybe liberation/restoration of Belarus would be a very good thing. Add Czechia and perhaps Slovakia.

    Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified “one size fits all” approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea

     

    Crimea and the Russian-populated parts of Donbas should have been expelled from the start. The rest of Ukraine - that had a solid Ukrainian majority in each region - could have been federated.

    If this had occurred from the beginning, Ukraine would have been in the EU and NATO and there would have been no war.

    A federation with parts populated by ethnic Russian majorities and loyal to Russia would have been a terrible thing for Ukraine (but good for Russia). It would have been a repetition of late-stage PLC where Russia used a few Russia-friendly magnates to paralyze the whole system for its own purposes.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

  193. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    If I remember well, Houllebecq book "The Extension Of War Zone" ( Extension du domaine de la lutte) was about this. When I read it, I wasn't sure how real was the phenomenon, but apparently statistics (indirectly of course, since the average number of sexual partners per person can be misleading, as some have 1 and some have 20 which again is visible in the statistics of veneral diseases) are on Houllebecq's side
    I also remember that in the book it was a Jewish character who was incel, which I took as parody (of the meme of Jewish sexual revolution) or/and commentary on the death of Judeochristian monogamy ;(

    Replies: @Coconuts

    When I read it, I wasn’t sure how real was the phenomenon…

    I read it when I was about 19, it felt like there was some truth to it just from personal observation. This was more than 20 years ago, afaik before the ‘Red Pill’ movement started and when data to back it up wasn’t easily available.

    It has the classic passage:

    Decidedly, I told myself, in our societies sex represents very much a secondary system of differentiation, wholly independent from that of money. It brings with it a system of differentiation that is just as pitiless. Besides the effects of these two systems are strictly equivalent. In the same way as unlimited economic liberalism, and for analogous reasons, unlimited sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperisation. Some make love every day, some five or six times in their life and some never. Some make love to dozens of women and some to none…

    I didn’t notice the incel guy being Jewish, I remember that he is described as short, swarthy and looking frog like, iirc the narrator draws a comparison between him and a 6’4″ chisel jaw Nordic guy he also works with and comments on the differing sexual market value.

    There is a section where the narrator meets one of his old friends who is a Catholic priest in an inner city parish and I recall the priest makes some over enthusiastic comments on the vitality of the era of Louis XIV compared to the present, but the narrator doesn’t take it further.

  194. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have decried the war between Ukiestan and RusFed from day one. And I have noticed that I might have been the only one on this forum to consistently do so.
     
    You must have skipped my comments during the past year. But that's OK, we all have a life outside of this blog.

    Btw, LatW also had a hard time understanding how I can be so opposed to Putin's war now when I was equally opposed to Ukraine's actions in Donbas. It's a strange thing, actually. I used to think that we Euros have a common general view of life and the world. I actually experienced this first hand when I lived in Chile. I met many expats from Europe and the US, including even a couple of Belarussian acquaintances who tried their luck in Chile and stayed at my house for some months. I always found that it was much easier to find rapport with fellow Europeans, even from the opposite side of the continent, than with the locals.

    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches). But reality has shown me that this was an illusion. LatW is by no means alone in Europe or the US, where most people seem to have started to regard war as a legitimate course of action to solve political/territorial disputes rather than moral dilemmas. In fact, I feel like my non-religious but ethical approach to the question of war probably resonates more with non-Europeans these days than with fellow Euros. From what I read here and there, I have the impression that, unlike most Westerners, non-Euros are just aghast at the war that was once again started in Europe, hoping that it doesn't affect them too much and in general not feeling much need to take sides.

    Replies: @Sean, @sudden death, @Ivashka the fool

    You’re right Mikel. You have also been a voice for peace and sanity. I apologize for having omitted mentioning that.

    Re. the acceptability of war in Europe. I think we are undergoing a regression of social norms. My opinion is that it started in the West in 2001 after the Twin Towers attack. It started in the former USSR earlier in late 80ies and early 90ies with all the ethnic strife and the criminal and political violence.

    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don’t think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. Progress has deprived them from that, the regression & archaization would probably bring it back.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don’t think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. 
     
    This is the crux of the issue, imho. I don't have much time to elaborate but we humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years as a tribal species. During all of that time using violence to keep outsiders away from our hunting-gathering space made perfect sense, from a survival perspective. Defending your tribe was just a natural extension of defending your family, which not even the most extremist pacifists would object to, I think. And even if we hadn't have that particular evolution we have the same territorial instinct of all members of the animalia group in the eukaryotes domain.

    People may rationalize the necessity of war in many different ways but it all boils down to our very deep, ancestral instincts. However, we don't live in tribal structures anymore at all. Nation states are a very novel, abstract structure that mimics the tribe that, as you correctly point out, we still feel the need to belong to but are radically different. People being rounded up in Odessa to be forced to kill what they perhaps consider their own kin is the perfect example of this difference.

    Besides, we are the only rational species on this planet. Chimpanzees may go to war against a neighboring group and use much more violence than necessary without giving it any thought or feeling any moral compunction but our brains evolved too much and we are not like that.

    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later. So, paradoxically, our survival now depends on being able to put under strict control an instinct that until recently was beneficial for our survival.

    In other words, I agree with you on the importance of the human tribal dimension but I disagree on the benefits of turning back to it in the present circumstances.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  195. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    What are the statistics for cousin couples?

    After years of having my computer flooded with Game of Thrones nonsense, yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow's aunt. Why the hush hush about this feature? Hmmm?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow, @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    I would guess they are more stable. At least they are more so in Yemen and Afghanistan. 🙂

  196. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I thought we worshipped "choice"? In other words, absolutely undetermined freedom to choose anything without any horizon determining the direction of our wills? Isn't that modernity?

    Traditionally, it was thought our wills were naturally oriented towards the Good - a rational being was not absolutely free to choose anything, but would only want to choose the Good.

    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything - creatures whose nature's determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not "free", although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good (someone whose faculties were impaired, and who chose the bad, was considered "unfree", under a constraint preventing him from doing what he would naturally want to do, choose the Good).

    But isn't a will not oriented towards the Good, but just randomly acting, the purest expression of nihilism? Random actions undetermined by a particular horizon are meaningless events, not rational acts, just chance events that have no leaning, like a muscular tic.

    Worshipping Nature would be a will oriented towards a particular horizon, a determined will and not "free" in the modern sense, and also not nihilistic (although problematic in other ways if not modified by an understanding of what's Good in nature).

    In fact, we worship the Nothing - and not the good "nothing" of the mystics which is actually the incomprehensible plenitude of Being, but genuine nothing, the nihil of emptiness.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything – creatures whose nature’s determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not “free”, although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good…

    This got me thinking about Rousseau, it’s been said that he took the idea of the Catholic Beatific Vision (or possibly human life after the Second Coming) and applied it to his imagined primeval state of nature before humanity was corrupted by social life and civilisation. Rousseau seems to have believed he had rediscovered this state via his sincerity and introspection, and it made him ‘…the best of men’. Like a sort of reductio and deist version of radical ‘inner light’ Protestantism.

    It’s also often linked to the way Hume’s scepticism had undermined belief in Natural Law and the traditional metaphysical arguments for God’s existence and nature. Famously one of the implications was that morality and value judgements could only be based on sentiment and emotion. I think Helvetius was making some similar arguments in the Francophone world at the same time.

    You can see how Jean Jacquesism might have taken on in the post-Hume period.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    Who really wants the freedom to choose "whatever"? I'd rather choose the Good :)

    I'd rather be the type of creature that wants the Good, that is compelled to choose the valuable. Am I crazy? Whence comes this desire to be capable of choosing "whatever"? And yet I see it everywhere.

    Its been said that mankind models itself after it's conception of God, and at some point in the West, God's "omnipotence" began to take precedence over his Goodness. This was a fatal mistake - whence this obsession with "power"? The power to will anything at all?

    Rousseau was on some level hearkening back to a pre-Fall primordial state of perfection, but also prefiguring the modern obsession with the freedom to will "anything" - he was a confused man, although he had some good in him.

    In Taoism, "freedom" is aligning oneself with the Tao - it's not the freedom to will anything at all, but the freedom to will what is natural for us to will, to be the sorts of creatures who align ourselves with Good. The freedom to realize our determined nature.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom :) When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.

    Humean logic is limited logic - one step further, and it undermines itself. Sure, logic alone and purely can't provide a basis for morality and value judgements - but logic also can't provide a basis for itself :) All these years, and we humans can't provide a "ground" for logic.

    Why is modernity so afraid to take that next step?

    Either there is some correspondence between human thought and "reality" or there isn't - if there isn't, then the very logic that tells us there isn't can't be trusted, and is self-undermining. But if there is, then....

    Then?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  197. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    The days of telling your daughter who to marry are over with so the question is moot.

    I read a good old biologist who said humans are instinctively perpetually asexual towards other humans they were closely familiar with aged 3-7. My own personal data collection provides no argument contra to this. I had a stepsister who was hot enough and I never had any attraction towards her at all even when my hormone flux was 11 on a scale of 10. I have a cousin that might even be acceptable by Yahya's elite criteria.

    Again absolute zippo.

    The people who write Game of Thrones &c seem oblivious to this however or I could be completely erroneous.

    Replies: @songbird

    The people who write Game of Thrones &c seem oblivious to this

    Targaryen family (lot of incest in tree) was probably based on different god-king dynasties, like the Pharaohs or Inca, where they were supposed to always marry close relatives.

    [MORE]

    Greg Cochran once seemed to say that he thought that at least with the Ptolemies it was fake or part fake. (Too much leads to sterility) Cleopatra is described as quite a scholar, and I think beautiful? But historians could have been lying.

    Lots of theories about why George R. R. Martin (wrote the books) had so much incest in them. Some say it was because he wanted to promote genetics (such as recessive genes for controlling dragons.) Mostly think it was because he thought it was titillating. One case didn’t involve dragons, but evil twins, but mentions hair color.

    Jon and Dany could possibly fall under genetic attraction theory. Wikipedia says it is bunk (and could be) but take it with a grain of salt because they do that with everything even remotely related to race.

    “You will be made to desire Lizzo.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

    Super not scientific, but I have only been very mildly attracted to one second cousin. (not that I would necessarily look at her in a room of girls) I’m laughing about the idea of them devising some sort of test to see whether everyone is lying or not.

    I had a stepsister who was hot enough and I never had any attraction towards her at all even when my hormone flux was 11 on a scale of 10.

    About how old were you when you first met? (<6?) Does it support this?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

  198. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    But at some point, this was felt to be an intolerable infringement on our freedom to choose absolutely anything – creatures whose nature’s determined them to choose the Good were, in the modern sense, not “free”, although in the classical sense, freedom was precisely the ability to choose the Good...
     
    This got me thinking about Rousseau, it's been said that he took the idea of the Catholic Beatific Vision (or possibly human life after the Second Coming) and applied it to his imagined primeval state of nature before humanity was corrupted by social life and civilisation. Rousseau seems to have believed he had rediscovered this state via his sincerity and introspection, and it made him '...the best of men'. Like a sort of reductio and deist version of radical 'inner light' Protestantism.

    It's also often linked to the way Hume's scepticism had undermined belief in Natural Law and the traditional metaphysical arguments for God's existence and nature. Famously one of the implications was that morality and value judgements could only be based on sentiment and emotion. I think Helvetius was making some similar arguments in the Francophone world at the same time.

    You can see how Jean Jacquesism might have taken on in the post-Hume period.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Who really wants the freedom to choose “whatever”? I’d rather choose the Good 🙂

    I’d rather be the type of creature that wants the Good, that is compelled to choose the valuable. Am I crazy? Whence comes this desire to be capable of choosing “whatever”? And yet I see it everywhere.

    Its been said that mankind models itself after it’s conception of God, and at some point in the West, God’s “omnipotence” began to take precedence over his Goodness. This was a fatal mistake – whence this obsession with “power”? The power to will anything at all?

    Rousseau was on some level hearkening back to a pre-Fall primordial state of perfection, but also prefiguring the modern obsession with the freedom to will “anything” – he was a confused man, although he had some good in him.

    In Taoism, “freedom” is aligning oneself with the Tao – it’s not the freedom to will anything at all, but the freedom to will what is natural for us to will, to be the sorts of creatures who align ourselves with Good. The freedom to realize our determined nature.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom 🙂 When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.

    Humean logic is limited logic – one step further, and it undermines itself. Sure, logic alone and purely can’t provide a basis for morality and value judgements – but logic also can’t provide a basis for itself 🙂 All these years, and we humans can’t provide a “ground” for logic.

    Why is modernity so afraid to take that next step?

    Either there is some correspondence between human thought and “reality” or there isn’t – if there isn’t, then the very logic that tells us there isn’t can’t be trusted, and is self-undermining. But if there is, then….

    Then?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    but logic also can’t provide a basis for itself
     
    Logical truths exist in their own kingdom ("Third Kingdom"), independently of anything human, so also of ethics: so said the great Gottlob Frege.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom 🙂 When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.
     
    This somehow sounds very Marxist, Marx allegedly saying that "freedom is conscious necessity" (thus Marxism is the only rational choice), so at least the running saying during the communist times.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  199. @sudden death
    @Mikel


    Some years ago I would have thought that one of the things that we have in common these days is regarding war and the killing of innocent people as the most horrendous thing, only to be done as a last resort and to avoid a bigger disaster (as Christian doctrine teaches).
     
    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war, because if not RF'ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya after the most recent independence referendum there.

    Replies: @Mikel

    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war

    No, and you’re proving my point. Regardless of who started the conflict, you always have the choice of not shooting at civilians. Ukrainian authorities decided that their country’s territorial integrity was more valuable than the lives of innocent civilians living in those territories and possibly most people in Ukraine found that decision correct, or eventually came to find it inevitable, including many practicing Christians. The public in the West was carefully kept ignorant of this fact but right now I wouldn’t be too surprised if many Westerners also approved of Ukraine’s decision to shell civilians areas because “Russia started first”.

    if not RF’ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya

    You’re wrong. People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc. Nobody was really willing to die in Spain/Catalonia and nobody actually died. In fact, the Catalonian autonomous government had already declared the Catalan Republic in the 30s, at a time of much more political turbulence, but the rebellion also fizzled out in a couple of days when the Spanish authorities, backed by armed forces that in those days were definitely willing to kill, appeared on the scene.

    You may say that Catalans (and Basques) don’t have what it takes to become independent, if you want. But how much they’re willing to sacrifice for that political objective is their legitimate choice to make. ETA, that still retains plenty of support in some parts of the Basque Country, did kill around 800 people to try to achieve independence, many of them civilians and even some children, if that makes them more likeable to you, since the Spaniards started it all when they invaded the Kingdom of Navarre in the 16th century.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Mikel


    People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc.
     
    Despite that willingness to die/kill from some most passionate groups/individuals, the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF'ians.

    Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa especially, got ugly riots and even one classical early 20th century style pogrom in one building with tens of victims, but still did not result in anything too drastic on grand scale, because the organized, sponsored and armed intervention was absent.

    Replies: @Mikel

  200. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Women are more promiscuous than men, and their strategy is mating-up: early mating has polygamic structure, resulting in fewer men having more sex, and more men having less sex - the fact is well reflected not only through phenomenon of groupies but in the little noted fact that more young women than young men will have typical heterosexual veneral diseases (if you take into account that a fraction of men are gays, this statistically visible polygamy is even more pronounced) - one man will have sex with many women, who are thus lost for other men. Thus the wisdom of old cultures which always chaperoned young women.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/622809/gonorrhea-rate-in-the-us-by-age-and-sex/

    Such early polygamic promiscuity does not suits well monogamic marriages (creating a shadow of an ideal lover a woman once had - together with many other women; on the male side, it could create resentment of the not-ideal-lovers class, also not useful for marriage building), which maybe should be polygamic too in order to accommodate women unbridled preferences. So I am afraid women did not betray white men, they never really coveted them except few alpha cases!

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok. So maybe worshipping Nature is not so good after all...?!

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool

    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.

    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we’re all Calhoun’s mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory.
     
    Not sure whether this can be explain with selfish gene theory - by mating only with alpha male, in the long run women decrease fitness of their own community (everyone becomes cousin of everyone).
    Also mating with alphas is not so universal among animals, many birds will have just one partner for life.

    In general, I think the explanatory power of selfish gene theory is over-advertised.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.
     
    https://www.amazon.com/Anastasia-Ringing-Cedars-Book-1/dp/0976333309/

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1

     

    World fertility rate now is higher above replacement than most of human history.

    In most of history, the population was stable i.e. fertility rates historically were not above replacement, while today it is increasing (i.e. fertility rates are above replacement, which is something unusual of recent human history).

    The large population of humans is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment and unnatural by the definition.*

    For most of history, the human population was not increasing. To create the first population of 1 billion humans, required 200,000 years (196,200 BC- 1800 AD, while another 1 billion humans has been added to the population in the last 11 years.

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (or Chinese now in a society of 1,400,000,000 people, while their minds were designed for 80 people).

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly relative.

    -

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-10,000, not 8,000,000,000. Only other large animals with those numbers are artificial animals which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.
    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    I was going to ask not about "Ancient Apocalypse" but something maybe more metaphysical https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5766648

    The concept of "selfish gene", is that genes from evolution view are not interested in the animal, but only in the genes' replication through animals. This is the idea that the animal is not using genes, but genes are using the animal.

    It's opposition to the idea that intention of evolution would be seen in terms survival of the animal or survival of the animal's species.

    This is more problem of language to explain. For example, are we a single animal? From some viewpoint, we can each be viewed as a colony of animals with mitochondria. microbiome. And what is the relation of consciousness to animals?

    Finally, because genes can be using the animals, does this mean the animal can be reduced to the genetic information. Of course, the animal are including physical parts which cannot be reduced to the particular instructions or the physical media for storing instructions (chain of amino acids).

    -


    We think about our nonhuman ancestors which we still primarily continue. We are primarily constitution of nonhuman history as human history is only recent part of story.

    There is our ancestor "Purgatorius", who is the first primate. A very high proportion of our current genes would be used by, or using (in "self gene theory"), "Purgatorius".

    https://i.imgur.com/dO8vumu.jpg


    Our early vertebrate ancestor was something which lived in coastal waters as this, which also already would have mostly the same genes we have.

    https://i.imgur.com/1JD4PeC.jpg

    But are we as "eukaryotes" created by conjunction of single-cell animals entering each other.

    https://i.imgur.com/BjSNeoZ.jpg

    Is categorization as a single animal just a language concept or is it related to the consciousness?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  201. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    Who really wants the freedom to choose "whatever"? I'd rather choose the Good :)

    I'd rather be the type of creature that wants the Good, that is compelled to choose the valuable. Am I crazy? Whence comes this desire to be capable of choosing "whatever"? And yet I see it everywhere.

    Its been said that mankind models itself after it's conception of God, and at some point in the West, God's "omnipotence" began to take precedence over his Goodness. This was a fatal mistake - whence this obsession with "power"? The power to will anything at all?

    Rousseau was on some level hearkening back to a pre-Fall primordial state of perfection, but also prefiguring the modern obsession with the freedom to will "anything" - he was a confused man, although he had some good in him.

    In Taoism, "freedom" is aligning oneself with the Tao - it's not the freedom to will anything at all, but the freedom to will what is natural for us to will, to be the sorts of creatures who align ourselves with Good. The freedom to realize our determined nature.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom :) When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.

    Humean logic is limited logic - one step further, and it undermines itself. Sure, logic alone and purely can't provide a basis for morality and value judgements - but logic also can't provide a basis for itself :) All these years, and we humans can't provide a "ground" for logic.

    Why is modernity so afraid to take that next step?

    Either there is some correspondence between human thought and "reality" or there isn't - if there isn't, then the very logic that tells us there isn't can't be trusted, and is self-undermining. But if there is, then....

    Then?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    but logic also can’t provide a basis for itself

    Logical truths exist in their own kingdom (“Third Kingdom”), independently of anything human, so also of ethics: so said the great Gottlob Frege.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom 🙂 When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.

    This somehow sounds very Marxist, Marx allegedly saying that “freedom is conscious necessity” (thus Marxism is the only rational choice), so at least the running saying during the communist times.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, Marx didn't exist in a vacuum - he borrowed from pre-existing philosophies.

    But Marxian "necessity" is not at all what I mean - the question is, discover your necessity. Marx was just trying to make his laws, "inevitable". A sleight of hand.

    But what is, truly, inevitable? What is your nature? What do you truly want?

  202. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.
     
    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we're all Calhoun's mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry, @Dmitry

    The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory.

    Not sure whether this can be explain with selfish gene theory – by mating only with alpha male, in the long run women decrease fitness of their own community (everyone becomes cousin of everyone).
    Also mating with alphas is not so universal among animals, many birds will have just one partner for life.

    In general, I think the explanatory power of selfish gene theory is over-advertised.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    mating only with alpha male, in the long run women decrease fitness of their own community (everyone becomes cousin of everyone).
     
    In the natural environment, it never got to this point. Men and women being what they are, we always had some cheating going on, and therefore some genetic diversification. Although it is true that some Y haplotypes performed better. However, this is due to the alpha providing more to the offspring and ensuing a better protection. Women seeking alphas is good and natural and fits well with selfish gene. But we probably have less of family oriented alphas nowadays. Today being an alpha is being a hedonistic playboy who is mainly interested in sex. Girls like it until they grow older and realize that there is a risk they end up lonely when getting older and less sexually attractive. Then they settle for a beta. Some women also basically settle for anyone if their baby-craving / pregnancy-craving gets strong enough.
  203. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    but logic also can’t provide a basis for itself
     
    Logical truths exist in their own kingdom ("Third Kingdom"), independently of anything human, so also of ethics: so said the great Gottlob Frege.

    In a sense, the greatest freedom is the greatest un-freedom 🙂 When we humans are what we are by necessity, when we follow our natures, we are freest.
     
    This somehow sounds very Marxist, Marx allegedly saying that "freedom is conscious necessity" (thus Marxism is the only rational choice), so at least the running saying during the communist times.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, Marx didn’t exist in a vacuum – he borrowed from pre-existing philosophies.

    But Marxian “necessity” is not at all what I mean – the question is, discover your necessity. Marx was just trying to make his laws, “inevitable”. A sleight of hand.

    But what is, truly, inevitable? What is your nature? What do you truly want?

  204. @Ivashka the fool
    To Coconuts and S, about the topic discussed by Charles Maurras in the excerpt posted by Coconuts.

    I was going to write a lenghty and unhinged rant, same as usual, and then I learned that someone (Rolo Slavskyi) has published some Shafarevich's translation on Unz Review.

    https://www.unz.com/article/postscript-to-the-three-thousand-year-old-enigma/

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    Replies: @S, @Coconuts

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    There is an interesting quote in the above post:

    He conceptualized society as a living organism, or rather, that one’s ethnic group is an extension of oneself. His reasoning is simple: a tribe helps protect the individual. A tribe and then a society grows around an individual like a protective hide grows around a boar. Better yet, individuals can be compared to the cells in a body. Castes or types of individuals are organs in this metaphor.

    About the views of Lev Gumilev.

    It reminded me a bit of Maurras’ idea of human societies as something like organisms:

    Societies are certainly not exactly the same as large animals and individuals are not simply subordinate component cells of them. But equally, they are not an example of the ‘pooling’ or ‘sharing’ of self-interest and of the choices of individuals that, in law, are known as associations.

    Societies are not voluntary associations, they are natural aggregates.

    They are not chosen or elected by their members. We choose neither our blood nor our country, nor our language, nor our traditions. The society we are born into is imposed on us. The need for human society is part of our nature.

    [MORE]

    I think Aristotle might have been the first to set out an organic view of human societies?

    Maurras thought the problems with hidden ethnic oligarchies could be solved by the establishment of a decentralised, corporatist monarchy, because the king would have enough independent power to control them, and the familial, organic structure of political society would make their existence and activities more obvious. He was writing pre-globalisation though, in the early 20th century.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Marxism has taught us about the basis (economy) and the superstructure (culture, societal norms, religion etc.) But even before economy, we have biology. Humans pretend they are not animals, but they are.

    It's just that we are animals capable of culture and metaphysics. Therefore, natural human clans and tribes are also biological phenomena organized for the survival of a given genomic pool (a human population). Selfish gene again.

    Today we see the child-free, homosexual and trans propaganda directed at the younger population. It is done by those who want their clans to outbreed the clans of these kids. Kids must know that future belongs to those who show up to face it. No offspring offering a promess of posterity - no future.

    Maurras was right in a situation where the Monarch is part and parcel of the population he lords upon. But when a Monarch belongs to a foreign clan, it doen't necessarily lead to a better chance of survival for his subjects. If the elite is alien, then there is a higher chance for it to be a predatory one.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  205. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.
     
    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.

    But they say that Charles II of Spain was more inbred than if his parents were normal brother and sister, and supposedly, his sister was a beautiful woman, even though he was ugly. Previously, I've theorized here that incest might have a worse effect on male births.

    Wonder what embryo selection would do to the congenital pathologies associated with incest.

    How many embryos would you need to select to cancel out or minimize the effects of first cousin marriage (non double)? Am guessing it wouldn't be that many.

    Also, just for the heck of it, wonder how far one could get with doing it for siblings. How difficult to reduce the risk to be equivalent to first cousin marriage? And what is the max you could do with iterative selection for siblings?

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @A123

    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.

    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.

    Bringing back Drogo rendered Daenerys sterile, “only death can pay for life”. She admits this in a TV episode. In terms of reproductive genetics, the overlapping lineage with Jon Snow (a.k.a. Jon Targaryen) is not relevant.

    This should have been handled better in TV season 8. Setting up a new royal family that cannot have an heir is absurd for the universe as established. Assuming George RR Martin lives long enough to finish the novels, we should find out more in a few years.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123

    Technically, a Jon and Dany combination would still be less inbred than either Dany or Jon's father. (supposing such a thing is possible) I was speaking about the two generations of brother-sister marriages, of Dany's parents and grandparents.

    Mice can be inbred in the lab for a number of generations. But I think they are different because they are very r-selected, and may have had more purifying selection in nature. (Just my wild theory)

    As far as a heir goes, I would say they could either fake it. i.e. have Jon knock up some woman and pretend it was Dany's, or else legitimize a bastard. But probably Martin would not go for either of those things, but will just make Jon kill her.

    Don't know if Martin has 1.25 more books in him, at this point. Think he said he doesn't want anyone else to finish it if he dies, but pretty sure they will just rob the bones from his grave and force a pen in the skeleton's hand. Brandon Sanderson could probably pump it out in two years.

    BTW, I was recently just exposed to this old Trump tweet, and I thought it was pretty good:
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/423780333687808001?s=20&t=bYyJH1I-FT4WXtKM62-IhA

  206. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory.
     
    Not sure whether this can be explain with selfish gene theory - by mating only with alpha male, in the long run women decrease fitness of their own community (everyone becomes cousin of everyone).
    Also mating with alphas is not so universal among animals, many birds will have just one partner for life.

    In general, I think the explanatory power of selfish gene theory is over-advertised.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    mating only with alpha male, in the long run women decrease fitness of their own community (everyone becomes cousin of everyone).

    In the natural environment, it never got to this point. Men and women being what they are, we always had some cheating going on, and therefore some genetic diversification. Although it is true that some Y haplotypes performed better. However, this is due to the alpha providing more to the offspring and ensuing a better protection. Women seeking alphas is good and natural and fits well with selfish gene. But we probably have less of family oriented alphas nowadays. Today being an alpha is being a hedonistic playboy who is mainly interested in sex. Girls like it until they grow older and realize that there is a risk they end up lonely when getting older and less sexually attractive. Then they settle for a beta. Some women also basically settle for anyone if their baby-craving / pregnancy-craving gets strong enough.

  207. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-elusive-jewish-solution/

    There is an interesting quote in the above post:


    He conceptualized society as a living organism, or rather, that one’s ethnic group is an extension of oneself. His reasoning is simple: a tribe helps protect the individual. A tribe and then a society grows around an individual like a protective hide grows around a boar. Better yet, individuals can be compared to the cells in a body. Castes or types of individuals are organs in this metaphor.
     
    About the views of Lev Gumilev.

    It reminded me a bit of Maurras' idea of human societies as something like organisms:


    Societies are certainly not exactly the same as large animals and individuals are not simply subordinate component cells of them. But equally, they are not an example of the 'pooling' or 'sharing' of self-interest and of the choices of individuals that, in law, are known as associations.

    Societies are not voluntary associations, they are natural aggregates.

    They are not chosen or elected by their members. We choose neither our blood nor our country, nor our language, nor our traditions. The society we are born into is imposed on us. The need for human society is part of our nature.
     

    I think Aristotle might have been the first to set out an organic view of human societies?

    Maurras thought the problems with hidden ethnic oligarchies could be solved by the establishment of a decentralised, corporatist monarchy, because the king would have enough independent power to control them, and the familial, organic structure of political society would make their existence and activities more obvious. He was writing pre-globalisation though, in the early 20th century.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Marxism has taught us about the basis (economy) and the superstructure (culture, societal norms, religion etc.) But even before economy, we have biology. Humans pretend they are not animals, but they are.

    It’s just that we are animals capable of culture and metaphysics. Therefore, natural human clans and tribes are also biological phenomena organized for the survival of a given genomic pool (a human population). Selfish gene again.

    Today we see the child-free, homosexual and trans propaganda directed at the younger population. It is done by those who want their clans to outbreed the clans of these kids. Kids must know that future belongs to those who show up to face it. No offspring offering a promess of posterity – no future.

    Maurras was right in a situation where the Monarch is part and parcel of the population he lords upon. But when a Monarch belongs to a foreign clan, it doen’t necessarily lead to a better chance of survival for his subjects. If the elite is alien, then there is a higher chance for it to be a predatory one.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    Current fertility rates are higher above replacement than in most of human history, as the population is increasing today, while in most of history the population was stable.

    For the human population to increase, is a result of humans changing their environment artificially, engineering an artificial nature. It is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment to create this artificial world we live in (just look at the objects in your room) that population increases.*

    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.

    This is the first 200,000 years of our history (198,200 BC - 1800 AD) added the same number of people to the population, as the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD).

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (population of the Russian Federation), or 330,000,000 (population of the United States of America), or 1,400,000,000 people (population of China).

    There is a bit of different between what we are designed for, 80 people, or where Chinese live today 1,400,000,000.

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly grandfather.

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-30,000, not 8,000,000,000. Except humans, the only large animals with those numbers are semi-artificial animals, which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

  208. @Mikel
    @sudden death


    It all depends on what is your own prefered definition and chosen moment of starting the war
     
    No, and you're proving my point. Regardless of who started the conflict, you always have the choice of not shooting at civilians. Ukrainian authorities decided that their country's territorial integrity was more valuable than the lives of innocent civilians living in those territories and possibly most people in Ukraine found that decision correct, or eventually came to find it inevitable, including many practicing Christians. The public in the West was carefully kept ignorant of this fact but right now I wouldn't be too surprised if many Westerners also approved of Ukraine's decision to shell civilians areas because "Russia started first".


    if not RF’ian intervention, everything would have ended in UA/Crimea/Donbas circa 2014 no any different than it ended in Spain/Catalunya
     
    You're wrong. People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc. Nobody was really willing to die in Spain/Catalonia and nobody actually died. In fact, the Catalonian autonomous government had already declared the Catalan Republic in the 30s, at a time of much more political turbulence, but the rebellion also fizzled out in a couple of days when the Spanish authorities, backed by armed forces that in those days were definitely willing to kill, appeared on the scene.

    You may say that Catalans (and Basques) don't have what it takes to become independent, if you want. But how much they're willing to sacrifice for that political objective is their legitimate choice to make. ETA, that still retains plenty of support in some parts of the Basque Country, did kill around 800 people to try to achieve independence, many of them civilians and even some children, if that makes them more likeable to you, since the Spaniards started it all when they invaded the Kingdom of Navarre in the 16th century.

    Replies: @sudden death

    People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc.

    Despite that willingness to die/kill from some most passionate groups/individuals, the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF’ians.

    Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa especially, got ugly riots and even one classical early 20th century style pogrom in one building with tens of victims, but still did not result in anything too drastic on grand scale, because the organized, sponsored and armed intervention was absent.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @sudden death


    the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF’ians.
     
    I do not want this to sound like any kind of moral comparison between Southwestern Europeans versus Eastern Slavs. I don't have any particular sympathy for the imperialist Spaniards or the woke Catalans separatists. I don't even sympathize much with my old countrymen. When I go there I feel like a foreigner surrounded by people stuck in a different era. Even when I lived there I felt that the ones who didn't support violence were too cowardly to oppose it openly and confront the radical bullies who imposed a reign of silence in every town.

    But it's you who is making a comparison that objectively doesn't stand. In all the places I've mentioned I remember at least two things: people killed by their political opponents (they even shot the major of Kharkiv, who had to be evacuated to a hospital in Israel) and HRW documenting tortures, disappearances and arbitrary detentions. In Catalonia one person lost her eye and it wasn't intentional. There were some rather brutal scenes too, captured by the international press at the polling stations. That was all. Different situations and a very different history and social evolution during the 20th century that led to opposite consequences.

    The Spanish public opinion, from what I can gather, is massively in favor of the Ukrainians in this war anyway, so things may sadly be transitioning towards a higher acceptance of violence, like in the 30s.

    Replies: @sudden death

  209. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.
     
    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we're all Calhoun's mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry, @Dmitry

    None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember my mom reading it around mid 90ies. She tried to make me go through it, but I phased out after a couple of pages. At the time she was also reading the books of Vissaryion the Minusinsk pseudo-Jesus that the RusFed authorities have recently arrested under fake accusations to seize his community's land because it is supposedly sitting atop of some ore deposits. RusFed was full of various sects and cults back then.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  210. @Yahya
    @Greasy William


    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long.
     
    I know; that's why I said she looks Black Irish.

    I don’t see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly’s appearance

     

    I know; that's why I said she requires some facial surgery to pass in the Middle East.

    Her hair and skin color already fit the bill; just the facial features are too European for the Middle East.

    On the other hand; some native Middle Easterners look more Irish than Connelly:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02943/izzat-al-douri-ira_2943572b.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-UzxqpPLc8&ab_channel=ABCNews

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkvxJYG1coI&ab_channel=MazeejByLucasSakr

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_zetLvrhE&ab_channel=DalalAbuAmneh-%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%A2%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A9

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Not Raul

    A Bedouin soldier was killed in Israel.

    You could have changed the uniform for a Ukrainian soldier and nobody would know.

    But the cousin looks Saudi, converted to Judaism to become a Haredi rabbi.

    https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/2165715/family-of-heroes-the-lubavitch-cousin-of-the-bedouin-policeman-killed-in-terror-attack.html

  211. @A123
    @Wokechoke


    3 pipes were ruptured by explosives. A 4th pipe was left alone for unknow reasons which we can speculate about…or the bomb on the 4th failed to detonate for some reason. Either technical failure or perhaps counter measures.
     
    We have still seen no evidence of explosives. That is based on anonymous sources.

    Three pipes ruptured in a manner consistent with a heavy industrial accident.

    What could happen if Russia dropped pressure at the fill end to reverse flow & recovery salable material?

    • The operators opened valves at their end 1,200 km from Germany.
    • Hydrate slug #1 created a rupture.
    • Hydrate slug #2 quickly followed, resembling a single event.
    • Pipe #3 had a pressure differential end to end 1,200 km. 17 hours lucky it had a slug movement & rupture.
    • Pipe #4 luck smiled, no issue

    If the operators were clever, they may have been trying to repressurize their end of pipes #3 and #4.

    Unfortunately, it is sort of like the CCP's lab at WIV. We will never get an opportunity to thoroughly investigate.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?
     
    If the admission makes sense. The confessor would need:

    -- authority
    -- resources
    -- motive
    -- capabilities & competence

    Then answer key questions:

    -- Why this geography? (1)
     
    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/nord-292x300.jpg
     
    -- Why a 17 hour delay on pipe #3?
    -- Why leave pipe #4 undamaged?

     

    UR being a conspiracy site creates issues. It attracts commenters prone to leap to complex solution when more straightforward ones are available.

    • Did the event have overlap with politicians talking about a problem? Certainly.

    • Does that make those politicians the most likely explanation? No. That is a leap.

    • How competent are politicians? They are skilled enough to commission such a plan. The plan delivers a foul up. And, they talk so much they bring suspicion themselves.

    Ask these questions about the WUHAN-19 virus or NordStream. It is easy to see conspiracy explanations popping out that the woodwork that ultimately make little sense.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    Replies: @QCIC

  212. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.
     
    https://www.amazon.com/Anastasia-Ringing-Cedars-Book-1/dp/0976333309/

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I remember my mom reading it around mid 90ies. She tried to make me go through it, but I phased out after a couple of pages. At the time she was also reading the books of Vissaryion the Minusinsk pseudo-Jesus that the RusFed authorities have recently arrested under fake accusations to seize his community’s land because it is supposedly sitting atop of some ore deposits. RusFed was full of various sects and cults back then.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool

    She didn't tell you the part about the psilocybin mushrooms I'm guessing.

    Apparently the guy who started the sect was really stinkin' rich and he gave all his money away?

    Maybe it was like the Wittgenstein deal where he just signed it all over to his sister who worshiped him their whole lives.

  213. @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I remember my mom reading it around mid 90ies. She tried to make me go through it, but I phased out after a couple of pages. At the time she was also reading the books of Vissaryion the Minusinsk pseudo-Jesus that the RusFed authorities have recently arrested under fake accusations to seize his community's land because it is supposedly sitting atop of some ore deposits. RusFed was full of various sects and cults back then.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    She didn’t tell you the part about the psilocybin mushrooms I’m guessing.

    Apparently the guy who started the sect was really stinkin’ rich and he gave all his money away?

    Maybe it was like the Wittgenstein deal where he just signed it all over to his sister who worshiped him their whole lives.

  214. @songbird
    @AP

    How popular is this idea in the Baltics? And in Ukraine?

    Could be wrong, but I don't really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

    Or are you imagining it, without them?

    Replies: @LatW

    How popular is this idea in the Baltics?

    Getting more attention than before but, unfortunately, not yet fully mainstream. There are some newly established political formats, which is not bad.

    Could be wrong, but I don’t really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

    You’re correct that most Balts are focused more on the nation state type of ideas as well as partly on the EU, but the world has changed a lot, and is still changing rather fast.

    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation. Substance and content is more important than formalities.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @LatW


    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation.
     
    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    But beyond that, we have seen the path of the EU, and I am convinced that it is the organic path of any such organization. Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four. That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    But even for those who aren't attached to it, and don't mind their neighbors. There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors, and new peoples. You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    Replies: @LatW, @A123, @AP

  215. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.
     
    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we're all Calhoun's mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry, @Dmitry

    nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1

    World fertility rate now is higher above replacement than most of human history.

    In most of history, the population was stable i.e. fertility rates historically were not above replacement, while today it is increasing (i.e. fertility rates are above replacement, which is something unusual of recent human history).

    The large population of humans is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment and unnatural by the definition.*

    For most of history, the human population was not increasing. To create the first population of 1 billion humans, required 200,000 years (196,200 BC- 1800 AD, while another 1 billion humans has been added to the population in the last 11 years.

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (or Chinese now in a society of 1,400,000,000 people, while their minds were designed for 80 people).

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly relative.

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-10,000, not 8,000,000,000. Only other large animals with those numbers are artificial animals which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.

  216. @sudden death
    @Mikel


    People on both sides in Ukraine were willing to kill and die, as proven by the Maidan events and later on in Donbas, Kharkiv, Odessa, etc.
     
    Despite that willingness to die/kill from some most passionate groups/individuals, the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF'ians.

    Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa especially, got ugly riots and even one classical early 20th century style pogrom in one building with tens of victims, but still did not result in anything too drastic on grand scale, because the organized, sponsored and armed intervention was absent.

    Replies: @Mikel

    the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF’ians.

    I do not want this to sound like any kind of moral comparison between Southwestern Europeans versus Eastern Slavs. I don’t have any particular sympathy for the imperialist Spaniards or the woke Catalans separatists. I don’t even sympathize much with my old countrymen. When I go there I feel like a foreigner surrounded by people stuck in a different era. Even when I lived there I felt that the ones who didn’t support violence were too cowardly to oppose it openly and confront the radical bullies who imposed a reign of silence in every town.

    But it’s you who is making a comparison that objectively doesn’t stand. In all the places I’ve mentioned I remember at least two things: people killed by their political opponents (they even shot the major of Kharkiv, who had to be evacuated to a hospital in Israel) and HRW documenting tortures, disappearances and arbitrary detentions. In Catalonia one person lost her eye and it wasn’t intentional. There were some rather brutal scenes too, captured by the international press at the polling stations. That was all. Different situations and a very different history and social evolution during the 20th century that led to opposite consequences.

    The Spanish public opinion, from what I can gather, is massively in favor of the Ukrainians in this war anyway, so things may sadly be transitioning towards a higher acceptance of violence, like in the 30s.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Mikel

    That mentioned Kharkov mayor Kernes was not supporting joining RF at the time, so could have been shot by RF'ians as well, cause then he sucesfully returned into that horrible UA Maidan dictatorship and worked as a mayor further there next six years up until he died from Covid.

    So despite all those immediate HRW noted violations during ensuing initial political chaos, everything calmed/normalized more or less quite quickly without a direct war, so in that aspect it ended like in Spain still, if the criteria is war/no war. If the criteria is zero any violations or deadly victims at all, then yes, it ended bit differently.

  217. @A123
    @songbird



    yesterday I found out Daneris was John Snow’s aunt.
     
    Her parents and grandparents were brother and sister, so they were even closer. Not sure if that is even biologically possible.
     
    Bringing back Drogo rendered Daenerys sterile, "only death can pay for life". She admits this in a TV episode. In terms of reproductive genetics, the overlapping lineage with Jon Snow (a.k.a. Jon Targaryen) is not relevant.

    This should have been handled better in TV season 8. Setting up a new royal family that cannot have an heir is absurd for the universe as established. Assuming George RR Martin lives long enough to finish the novels, we should find out more in a few years.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @songbird

    Technically, a Jon and Dany combination would still be less inbred than either Dany or Jon’s father. (supposing such a thing is possible) I was speaking about the two generations of brother-sister marriages, of Dany’s parents and grandparents.

    [MORE]

    Mice can be inbred in the lab for a number of generations. But I think they are different because they are very r-selected, and may have had more purifying selection in nature. (Just my wild theory)

    As far as a heir goes, I would say they could either fake it. i.e. have Jon knock up some woman and pretend it was Dany’s, or else legitimize a bastard. But probably Martin would not go for either of those things, but will just make Jon kill her.

    Don’t know if Martin has 1.25 more books in him, at this point. Think he said he doesn’t want anyone else to finish it if he dies, but pretty sure they will just rob the bones from his grave and force a pen in the skeleton’s hand. Brandon Sanderson could probably pump it out in two years.

    BTW, I was recently just exposed to this old Trump tweet, and I thought it was pretty good:

  218. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    Marxism has taught us about the basis (economy) and the superstructure (culture, societal norms, religion etc.) But even before economy, we have biology. Humans pretend they are not animals, but they are.

    It's just that we are animals capable of culture and metaphysics. Therefore, natural human clans and tribes are also biological phenomena organized for the survival of a given genomic pool (a human population). Selfish gene again.

    Today we see the child-free, homosexual and trans propaganda directed at the younger population. It is done by those who want their clans to outbreed the clans of these kids. Kids must know that future belongs to those who show up to face it. No offspring offering a promess of posterity - no future.

    Maurras was right in a situation where the Monarch is part and parcel of the population he lords upon. But when a Monarch belongs to a foreign clan, it doen't necessarily lead to a better chance of survival for his subjects. If the elite is alien, then there is a higher chance for it to be a predatory one.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Current fertility rates are higher above replacement than in most of human history, as the population is increasing today, while in most of history the population was stable.

    For the human population to increase, is a result of humans changing their environment artificially, engineering an artificial nature. It is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment to create this artificial world we live in (just look at the objects in your room) that population increases.*

    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.

    This is the first 200,000 years of our history (198,200 BC – 1800 AD) added the same number of people to the population, as the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD).

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (population of the Russian Federation), or 330,000,000 (population of the United States of America), or 1,400,000,000 people (population of China).

    There is a bit of different between what we are designed for, 80 people, or where Chinese live today 1,400,000,000.

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly grandfather.

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-30,000, not 8,000,000,000. Except humans, the only large animals with those numbers are semi-artificial animals, which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.
     
    Did you watch Ancient Apocalypse ?

    https://youtu.be/DgvaXros3MY

    Also René Barjavel would have disagreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_People_(Barjavel_novel)

    Just kidding because you're too serious.

    I agree with what you wrote. We are living in a completely unnatural way. Desmond Morris in the Naked Ape and the Naked Couple had adequately described the problem. I've read both books when I was in my early twenties, but I didn't really consider it that important. Now I think otherwise. But I have since also read the Unabomber Manifesto and discussed metaphysics with Chat GPT. Perhaps I should re-read Desmond Morris...

    🙂

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people
     
    Why do you think our evolution stopped 20,000 years ago?

    In most of Europe, Middle East, and Asia people have lived in populated agricultural communities for thousands of years and in urban environments for many hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

  219. No, she didn’t tell me about it. But I remember that the guy who was the author of this “esoteric novel” and who started the “Anastasian Movement” was supposedly a businessman who decided to downshift in Siberia or the Russian Far East (what a ridiculous idea when one can downshift in Thailand). But I suspect that he made even more money selling these books than he supposed lost due to mafia taking over his business or someone.

    BTW thanks for making me nostalgic, these were crazy times, but there were some really funny moments. Like a young female Jews for Jesus missionary trying to have a discussion with me in Moscow, Gipsy guys inviting me to an “Orthodox Gipsy Church” (I declined their invitation) or me sharing a night train between Moscow and Piter, drinking with a Chechen mafia dude until we both passed out.

    Ah yeah, also me receiving my first book of translation of the Gnostic Nag Hammadi texts as a gift from a Muscovite intelligentsia couple who wanted me to date their daughter (she was probably smart, but she wasn’t sexy) they added a Krishnamurti picture to the book for some unknown reason.

    Anyways, those were the times.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    Should have been a reply to Emil

  220. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    Current fertility rates are higher above replacement than in most of human history, as the population is increasing today, while in most of history the population was stable.

    For the human population to increase, is a result of humans changing their environment artificially, engineering an artificial nature. It is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment to create this artificial world we live in (just look at the objects in your room) that population increases.*

    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.

    This is the first 200,000 years of our history (198,200 BC - 1800 AD) added the same number of people to the population, as the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD).

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (population of the Russian Federation), or 330,000,000 (population of the United States of America), or 1,400,000,000 people (population of China).

    There is a bit of different between what we are designed for, 80 people, or where Chinese live today 1,400,000,000.

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly grandfather.

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-30,000, not 8,000,000,000. Except humans, the only large animals with those numbers are semi-artificial animals, which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.

    Did you watch Ancient Apocalypse ?

    Also René Barjavel would have disagreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_People_(Barjavel_novel)

    Just kidding because you’re too serious.

    I agree with what you wrote. We are living in a completely unnatural way. Desmond Morris in the Naked Ape and the Naked Couple had adequately described the problem. I’ve read both books when I was in my early twenties, but I didn’t really consider it that important. Now I think otherwise. But I have since also read the Unabomber Manifesto and discussed metaphysics with Chat GPT. Perhaps I should re-read Desmond Morris…

    🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    Ancient Apocalypse ?
     
    Lol we need Yahya to comment about this
    https://youtu.be/Ss8vJNx-iw8?t=73.

    Replies: @Yahya

  221. @Ivashka the fool
    No, she didn't tell me about it. But I remember that the guy who was the author of this "esoteric novel" and who started the "Anastasian Movement" was supposedly a businessman who decided to downshift in Siberia or the Russian Far East (what a ridiculous idea when one can downshift in Thailand). But I suspect that he made even more money selling these books than he supposed lost due to mafia taking over his business or someone.

    BTW thanks for making me nostalgic, these were crazy times, but there were some really funny moments. Like a young female Jews for Jesus missionary trying to have a discussion with me in Moscow, Gipsy guys inviting me to an "Orthodox Gipsy Church" (I declined their invitation) or me sharing a night train between Moscow and Piter, drinking with a Chechen mafia dude until we both passed out.

    Ah yeah, also me receiving my first book of translation of the Gnostic Nag Hammadi texts as a gift from a Muscovite intelligentsia couple who wanted me to date their daughter (she was probably smart, but she wasn't sexy) they added a Krishnamurti picture to the book for some unknown reason.

    Anyways, those were the times.

    https://youtu.be/-CmQ7PmkorQ

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Should have been a reply to Emil

  222. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective


    But as we worship Nature now, it is all ok.
     
    Worshipping nature is hard to equate with TFR ~ 1. The fecund natural human couple would naturally behave according to the selfish gene theory. It is the individualistic and hedonistic deviation of the selfish gene instinct that leads to sexual promiscuity and conjugal instability. The dopamine that is naturally coupled with copulation is aimed at ensuring posterity. When sex is completely detached from any prospects of childbirth, it is not a natural pleasure, but more of an artificial and civilized one. Anyway, we're all Calhoun's mice nowadays. None among us is still truly natural. We have been thoroughly domesticated.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry, @Dmitry

    I was going to ask not about “Ancient Apocalypse” but something maybe more metaphysical https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5766648

    The concept of “selfish gene”, is that genes from evolution view are not interested in the animal, but only in the genes’ replication through animals. This is the idea that the animal is not using genes, but genes are using the animal.

    It’s opposition to the idea that intention of evolution would be seen in terms survival of the animal or survival of the animal’s species.

    This is more problem of language to explain. For example, are we a single animal? From some viewpoint, we can each be viewed as a colony of animals with mitochondria. microbiome. And what is the relation of consciousness to animals?

    Finally, because genes can be using the animals, does this mean the animal can be reduced to the genetic information. Of course, the animal are including physical parts which cannot be reduced to the particular instructions or the physical media for storing instructions (chain of amino acids).

    We think about our nonhuman ancestors which we still primarily continue. We are primarily constitution of nonhuman history as human history is only recent part of story.

    There is our ancestor “Purgatorius”, who is the first primate. A very high proportion of our current genes would be used by, or using (in “self gene theory”), “Purgatorius”.

    Our early vertebrate ancestor was something which lived in coastal waters as this, which also already would have mostly the same genes we have.

    But are we as “eukaryotes” created by conjunction of single-cell animals entering each other.

    Is categorization as a single animal just a language concept or is it related to the consciousness?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    An excellent question.

    From a very tangible and material pov, we are not individuals, but colonies of specialized cells working together as an organism. Our consciousness allows us to see ourselves as an entity, but this view is misleading and is due to the way our brain processes information. I think we should see our personality as an attractor for the many non linear streams of information that our being is woven from.

    Regarding the selfish gene and the Evolution, you are right about our genome carrying information from our ancestors from the different biological entities that have existed before us up to the Last Universal Common Ancestor. Some has been lost, some has been produced through the duplication, segregation and evolution of novel functions, but some is quite ancient too. So yes, it is the genetic information that is climbing the stairs of evolution towards some Omega point while we are just the carriers.

    That is one of the reasons I care so much about my genetic lineage. It is in very real and material terms a chain linking me both to the beginnings of life on this planet, and (if things go well and we don't get a nuclear war because of Bakhmut or Artyomovsk), to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  223. @LatW
    @songbird


    How popular is this idea in the Baltics?
     
    Getting more attention than before but, unfortunately, not yet fully mainstream. There are some newly established political formats, which is not bad.

    Could be wrong, but I don’t really see how Balts would want to be culturally and politically swamped by some much bigger country.

     

    You're correct that most Balts are focused more on the nation state type of ideas as well as partly on the EU, but the world has changed a lot, and is still changing rather fast.

    I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean by "culturally and politically swamped". Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation. Substance and content is more important than formalities.

    Replies: @songbird

    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation.

    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    But beyond that, we have seen the path of the EU, and I am convinced that it is the organic path of any such organization. Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four. That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    But even for those who aren’t attached to it, and don’t mind their neighbors. There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors, and new peoples. You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP
     
    I took a long time "categorizing" him, too, but I was able to finally (he's rather complex, with a mix of ideas and predispositions that are not always consistent or immediately visible to non-Anglos, but in the US it is possible to be that way).

    Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he has a right to his ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country (at home he would be more balanced, and, btw, there is nothing wrong with Poland-Galician integrationalism at all). America has to pay for everyone she takes in that way. So far America has been strong... but at this point America's burden is not light. It attests to America's strength.

    but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you.
     
    Not fully, but there is a rather significant overlap. I won't dissect him because, in this particular time and space, he's a friendly. Besides, the "endpoint", as you say, will not be something that either he, nor I, nor you will decide on our own, most likely. It will be a larger collective of people. We can only contribute our energy and hopes.

    Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries

     

    There are such systems in the Intermarium, but they are not ideal. These things need to be constantly managed. Elites and the military, as well as the police, need to be held to high standards but also have respect. The civic society needs to be free but similarly as the state institutions, needs to be held to a high accountability.

    And even tough and rigorous bureaucracy. A bureaucrat gets to approve somebody's asylum or immigration application - you don't want to leave that decision to be based on their mood or what they had for lunch, but based on intelligence, a strong patriotic conviction and, ideally, the interests of the nation (hopefully, in a way that you and I understand it). All of these components need to be in place. Ideology is important, even if it is not voiced in words and political documents, but in other symbols and gestures that everyone understands without saying.

    We used to have a totalitarian society where others took care of this. But when one has freedom, the most valuable gift, one has to have self-discipline. The classical Greek culture teaches us to question things the way Socrates did, the Socratic method is still useful - when someone proposes something for your state and nation, question it. Ask simple questions - "Is this needed?", "Why?", "How is this good for the children?". Do not just accept it. Question it just for the sake of it.. question it openly. :)


    It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four.
     
    No need to exaggerate, just have a normal, strict common sense approach. That's why formalities are a good thing to have, as I said, but they are not the most important. A nation, a tribe, a family, a family of similar peoples, needs to be able to stand without a state (most nations in history have been that way). But a strong state and an ideology is still important, to have more than one layer of protection. A nation is like a warrior and a strong, nationalist state is like a shield.

    There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors
     
    Our neighbors are static and have been static for millennia or for hundreds of years. I guess we are lucky that way. But the EU neighbors, in the future, will need a discussion. We go back to Socrates, we question, instead of just accepting things as a given.

    You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.
     
    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don't agree that "they" can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume. They know how important it is, they are careful, that's why they have had a "soft" approach. More dangerous for us that way, actually. You know how you walk during a blizzard on a snowed in path, really freezing? When you reach the limit of your strength you fall down comfortably in the snow and start falling asleep.. they say it's the most pleasant feeling. It's the feeling right before you die and they teach you to fight that pleasant sleep, to bring yourself out of it, to keep yourself alert.

    Replies: @S, @songbird

    , @A123
    @songbird


    design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. ... That is, if you want to keep some national identity.
     
    Identity is trained. To the extent migration occurs it has to be backed up by assimilation.

    Keeping control of education is key. Many have warned of this: (1)

    Yesterday, commenter “Paul Nachman” kindly drew our attention to this talk by Thomas Sowell on multicultualism. It was given some time in the 1990s, and displays Sowell’s characteristic sharpness of observation and clarity of expression He grasped the problem long before most people even noticed the phenomenon.

    An excerpt:

    But is there any evidence that colleges that have gone whole hog into multiculturalism have better relations among the various groups on campus? Or is it precisely on such campuses that separatism and hostility are worse than on campuses that have not gone in for the multicultural craze?

    You want to see multiculturalism in action? Look at Yugoslavia, at Lebanon, at Sri Lanka, at Northern Ireland, at Azerbaijan, or wherever else group “identity” has been hyped. There is no point in the multiculturalists’ saying that this is not what they have in mind. You might as well open the floodgates and then say that you don’t mean for people to drown. Once you have opened the floodgates, you can’t tell the water where to do.
     

     
    If the "have nots" can destroy workers via wealth extraction -- cohesiveness is a pipe dream. Similarly, if multiculturalists can swamp unifying nationalism, the system will inevitability fail.

    If nations are to have elections, then the system needs restrictions. Heinlein's Starship Troopers introduced the idea of full citizens with the vote, recognized residents with rights but no vote. However it was not dwelled on in depth. Limiting the vote to only committed nationalists makes a great deal of sense. How would one design such a system?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/sowell-on-multiculturalism/

    Replies: @songbird

    , @AP
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist
     
    I am a vehement anti-nationalist within Ukraine, too. I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms. And I think it’s better to have one’s own nation state than to be occupied by another peoples nation-state, if those are the only available choices.

    I am basically a traditionalist. I like Austria-Hungary and PLC more then I like nation-states. Monarchs, Churches, aristocrats, parliaments (depending on one’s traditions) rather than demagogue-led “peoples assemblies” in charge. Monarchs constrained by tradition rather than “enlightened despots.” From this perspective, the American experiment has been an interesting mixed bag, both counter-revolutionary and revolutionary at the same time.

    I am more of a fan of local identities than of “national identities” constructed by some 19th century Romantics. But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LatW

  224. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    I was going to ask not about "Ancient Apocalypse" but something maybe more metaphysical https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-205/#comment-5766648

    The concept of "selfish gene", is that genes from evolution view are not interested in the animal, but only in the genes' replication through animals. This is the idea that the animal is not using genes, but genes are using the animal.

    It's opposition to the idea that intention of evolution would be seen in terms survival of the animal or survival of the animal's species.

    This is more problem of language to explain. For example, are we a single animal? From some viewpoint, we can each be viewed as a colony of animals with mitochondria. microbiome. And what is the relation of consciousness to animals?

    Finally, because genes can be using the animals, does this mean the animal can be reduced to the genetic information. Of course, the animal are including physical parts which cannot be reduced to the particular instructions or the physical media for storing instructions (chain of amino acids).

    -


    We think about our nonhuman ancestors which we still primarily continue. We are primarily constitution of nonhuman history as human history is only recent part of story.

    There is our ancestor "Purgatorius", who is the first primate. A very high proportion of our current genes would be used by, or using (in "self gene theory"), "Purgatorius".

    https://i.imgur.com/dO8vumu.jpg


    Our early vertebrate ancestor was something which lived in coastal waters as this, which also already would have mostly the same genes we have.

    https://i.imgur.com/1JD4PeC.jpg

    But are we as "eukaryotes" created by conjunction of single-cell animals entering each other.

    https://i.imgur.com/BjSNeoZ.jpg

    Is categorization as a single animal just a language concept or is it related to the consciousness?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    An excellent question.

    From a very tangible and material pov, we are not individuals, but colonies of specialized cells working together as an organism. Our consciousness allows us to see ourselves as an entity, but this view is misleading and is due to the way our brain processes information. I think we should see our personality as an attractor for the many non linear streams of information that our being is woven from.

    Regarding the selfish gene and the Evolution, you are right about our genome carrying information from our ancestors from the different biological entities that have existed before us up to the Last Universal Common Ancestor. Some has been lost, some has been produced through the duplication, segregation and evolution of novel functions, but some is quite ancient too. So yes, it is the genetic information that is climbing the stairs of evolution towards some Omega point while we are just the carriers.

    That is one of the reasons I care so much about my genetic lineage. It is in very real and material terms a chain linking me both to the beginnings of life on this planet, and (if things go well and we don’t get a nuclear war because of Bakhmut or Artyomovsk), to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    selfish gene and the Evolution

     

    In this theory, the genes use the animal as a physical media (of course, the genes are also physical, but the information encoded surpasses the chains of protein).

    Then genes could be seen as information encoded by the physical media (animals). In the interaction of physical media (animals) with environment and time, the animals are like the past answer sheets for exams. How correct the answers can be, is regularly tested by evolution. It is a data processing (with some competitive activities similar to some methods already used in machine learning like generative adversarial networks).


    future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.
     
    I was asking about this film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.I._Artificial_Intelligence#Plot I think people in the forum could find the story interesting.

    It reminded of your posts. Although the answer of the writers is different.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  225. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    An excellent question.

    From a very tangible and material pov, we are not individuals, but colonies of specialized cells working together as an organism. Our consciousness allows us to see ourselves as an entity, but this view is misleading and is due to the way our brain processes information. I think we should see our personality as an attractor for the many non linear streams of information that our being is woven from.

    Regarding the selfish gene and the Evolution, you are right about our genome carrying information from our ancestors from the different biological entities that have existed before us up to the Last Universal Common Ancestor. Some has been lost, some has been produced through the duplication, segregation and evolution of novel functions, but some is quite ancient too. So yes, it is the genetic information that is climbing the stairs of evolution towards some Omega point while we are just the carriers.

    That is one of the reasons I care so much about my genetic lineage. It is in very real and material terms a chain linking me both to the beginnings of life on this planet, and (if things go well and we don't get a nuclear war because of Bakhmut or Artyomovsk), to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    selfish gene and the Evolution

    In this theory, the genes use the animal as a physical media (of course, the genes are also physical, but the information encoded surpasses the chains of protein).

    Then genes could be seen as information encoded by the physical media (animals). In the interaction of physical media (animals) with environment and time, the animals are like the past answer sheets for exams. How correct the answers can be, is regularly tested by evolution. It is a data processing (with some competitive activities similar to some methods already used in machine learning like generative adversarial networks).

    future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.

    I was asking about this film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.I._Artificial_Intelligence#Plot I think people in the forum could find the story interesting.

    It reminded of your posts. Although the answer of the writers is different.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    I have seen AI when it was in the movie theaters. I forgot the main part of the plot with the exception of the android kid traveling accross the future US after running from a bourgeois home and being nearly destroyed by some evil antirobot Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in Hollywood scenarios and cannot be otherwise). IIRC it was the last movie of Stanley Kubrick, that he hadn't had time to finish and that was completed by someone else (Spielberg?).

    I am wondering why this movie brought my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information towards consciousness. I haven't had any philosophical musings about it at the time, unlike after seeing the Matrix. I have just found it touching and sad, and in a sense it made me think of Solaris (the book by Lem, not the movie by Tarkovsky) because of the unrequited love of the robot kid for "his mother" and the impossibility of reaching an objective state of connection to the other.

    But yes, coming back to what we discussed earlier, basically what we are witnessing is information evolving towards forms of organisation that are more adapted to manipulate matter/energy/information itself, these three semantic categories being human-made descriptors for the Ontological Reality (Whole of Being in itself).



    I (perhaps wrongly) believe that the True Nature of Ontological Reality is ineffable. Anything that can be said about it is just descriptors - human made definitions - words. These words are the product of our consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution. As an example, we see colors and not wavelengths of photons, we feel solid and material something that is made of 99,9999... void etc. Of course what I write here is platitudes and clichés, but I think that they correspond to our existential situation which is basically wrong perception inevitably leading to ignorance (that's the core of Buddhadharma here).

    What is more peculiar is that we have a difficult time defining information itself. My idiosyncratic definition of information is "any pattern of distribution of matter/energy that can be detected by any type of receptor". It doesn't necessarily contain meaning and is not necessarily connected to anything except a stochastic distribution of bits. Now, out of necessity,any receptor is itself a "pattern of distribution of matter/energy" therefore it is itself a sum of information - an "information system". Following from here information is perceived by information and processed as information. We live in an information Reality we are information ourselves.

    If we add to it that according to modern physics, everything can be reduced to quarks, leptons, gluons etc. and that those can be described as potential in their respective quantum fields that "permeate" (for a lack of better word) our Universe, and that quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel's meaning.

    Perhaps that's what a Sufi could term "the Veil of ignorance" that is made as an Orthodox Christian would perhaps say of "subtle energies" of the Palamite Theology hiding the Essence (Ousia) of God. Then the Sufi and the Orthodox Christian might discuss it with a Buddhist who would note that the experience of this Ontological Reality is of necessity a physico-psychological one, made in the here and now, as constructed from elemental units - the dharmas. And the Hinduist would concur that "Tat tvam asi" (You are that).

    Then the Atheist would call 911 and send them all to a mental asylum for not stopping at the Veil of Ignorance and trying to imagine something beneath it.

    Sorry, I digresses again. Same as usual.

    Not sure whether what I wrote makes any sense. But I would like to read what you think of it. And thanks of making me think realize that AI algorithms are sometimes (or is it always?) using competing neural network models. Very interesting, I will have to read about it.

    🙂

    Replies: @Dmitry

  226. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool

    Current fertility rates are higher above replacement than in most of human history, as the population is increasing today, while in most of history the population was stable.

    For the human population to increase, is a result of humans changing their environment artificially, engineering an artificial nature. It is because of recent humans being able to create artificial nature, i.e. is a result of engineering the environment to create this artificial world we live in (just look at the objects in your room) that population increases.*

    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.

    This is the first 200,000 years of our history (198,200 BC - 1800 AD) added the same number of people to the population, as the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD).

    So, the last 11 years (2011-2022 AD) has added more humans to world population, than the first 200,000 years of human history (196,200 BC- 1800 AD).

    Natural population of humans was around 20,000 people for most our history. While today there are 60 times more Latvians, than the world population of humans our ancestors were living in.

    This is one of the main examples where we are not psychologically adapted. For example, we lived in societies with around 80 people.

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people, not societies with 146,000,000 people (population of the Russian Federation), or 330,000,000 (population of the United States of America), or 1,400,000,000 people (population of China).

    There is a bit of different between what we are designed for, 80 people, or where Chinese live today 1,400,000,000.

    If you live in a society with 80 people, it would be normal to see familiar people as your friends. But in the 21st century, familiar people are celebrities, politicians.

    They are people who rationally have no connection to us, but emotionally we view like they are friends. Sometimes they can be even the most dangerous people (i.e. our politicians), but our mind perceives them like a friendly grandfather.

    *Constant increase in population of humans is because of creating artificial nature. Normal animals in our level in the food chain are like polar bears, lions, great apes or bears.

    Animals which are high in the food chain like humans are designed for small populations like 1000-30,000, not 8,000,000,000. Except humans, the only large animals with those numbers are semi-artificial animals, which humans farm for food like cows and sheeps.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people

    Why do you think our evolution stopped 20,000 years ago?

    In most of Europe, Middle East, and Asia people have lived in populated agricultural communities for thousands of years and in urban environments for many hundreds of years.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    The Neolithic Revolution had led to "human domestication", which is a narrowing of our total mental capabilities and a selection of some peculiar mental aptitudes (mathematical thinking is one of those). But it hasn't affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn't really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    Humans in the fertile crescent invented farming around 500 generations, while most of our ancestors have farming for significantly less. For example, in Northern Europe, there was rejection of agriculture for thousands of years in Neolithic time.

    This is just talking about farming -

    500 generations vs 1000,000,000,000 of generations of evolution. (Even for human history, farming is only 500 vs 8000 generations, but most of our adaptations were from the prehuman history)

    From any quantitative view, evolution on first side of this "vs" will not very nonsignificant, relative to the other side.

    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.

    Writing was invented by Sumerians around 200 generations past. For many of our ancestors only had experience of writing for 4-8 generations. Humans were living for over 8000 generations without writing and the pre-humans (which is most of our adaptations for the environment) 1000,000,000,000 of generations without writing.

    Replies: @AP, @Yahya

  227. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    You're right Mikel. You have also been a voice for peace and sanity. I apologize for having omitted mentioning that.

    Re. the acceptability of war in Europe. I think we are undergoing a regression of social norms. My opinion is that it started in the West in 2001 after the Twin Towers attack. It started in the former USSR earlier in late 80ies and early 90ies with all the ethnic strife and the criminal and political violence.

    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don't think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. Progress has deprived them from that, the regression & archaization would probably bring it back.

    Replies: @Mikel

    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don’t think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. 

    This is the crux of the issue, imho. I don’t have much time to elaborate but we humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years as a tribal species. During all of that time using violence to keep outsiders away from our hunting-gathering space made perfect sense, from a survival perspective. Defending your tribe was just a natural extension of defending your family, which not even the most extremist pacifists would object to, I think. And even if we hadn’t have that particular evolution we have the same territorial instinct of all members of the animalia group in the eukaryotes domain.

    People may rationalize the necessity of war in many different ways but it all boils down to our very deep, ancestral instincts. However, we don’t live in tribal structures anymore at all. Nation states are a very novel, abstract structure that mimics the tribe that, as you correctly point out, we still feel the need to belong to but are radically different. People being rounded up in Odessa to be forced to kill what they perhaps consider their own kin is the perfect example of this difference.

    Besides, we are the only rational species on this planet. Chimpanzees may go to war against a neighboring group and use much more violence than necessary without giving it any thought or feeling any moral compunction but our brains evolved too much and we are not like that.

    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later. So, paradoxically, our survival now depends on being able to put under strict control an instinct that until recently was beneficial for our survival.

    In other words, I agree with you on the importance of the human tribal dimension but I disagree on the benefits of turning back to it in the present circumstances.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later.
     
    The problem may lie in the fact that human brains and bodies haven't been able to evolve to keep up with our capacity to modify our environment. Then you get an evolutionary mismatch where the species is no longer adapted to its environment and you may see reduction in numbers or the risk of something like an extinction event.

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    These issues seem to be looming in some Western European countries as a result of wealth disparities and demographic change, though things are starting from a high base in terms of living standards and expectations. I wondered about the East Slav sphere as well, where distrust seems to have grown around how elites dependent on natural resource exploitation and the security forces are going to manage the future for the wider population.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool, @Mikel

  228. @songbird
    @LatW


    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation.
     
    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    But beyond that, we have seen the path of the EU, and I am convinced that it is the organic path of any such organization. Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four. That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    But even for those who aren't attached to it, and don't mind their neighbors. There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors, and new peoples. You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    Replies: @LatW, @A123, @AP

    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP

    I took a long time “categorizing” him, too, but I was able to finally (he’s rather complex, with a mix of ideas and predispositions that are not always consistent or immediately visible to non-Anglos, but in the US it is possible to be that way).

    Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    Yes, that is problematic, but he has a right to his ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country (at home he would be more balanced, and, btw, there is nothing wrong with Poland-Galician integrationalism at all). America has to pay for everyone she takes in that way. So far America has been strong… but at this point America’s burden is not light. It attests to America’s strength.

    but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you.

    Not fully, but there is a rather significant overlap. I won’t dissect him because, in this particular time and space, he’s a friendly. Besides, the “endpoint”, as you say, will not be something that either he, nor I, nor you will decide on our own, most likely. It will be a larger collective of people. We can only contribute our energy and hopes.

    Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries

    There are such systems in the Intermarium, but they are not ideal. These things need to be constantly managed. Elites and the military, as well as the police, need to be held to high standards but also have respect. The civic society needs to be free but similarly as the state institutions, needs to be held to a high accountability.

    And even tough and rigorous bureaucracy. A bureaucrat gets to approve somebody’s asylum or immigration application – you don’t want to leave that decision to be based on their mood or what they had for lunch, but based on intelligence, a strong patriotic conviction and, ideally, the interests of the nation (hopefully, in a way that you and I understand it). All of these components need to be in place. Ideology is important, even if it is not voiced in words and political documents, but in other symbols and gestures that everyone understands without saying.

    We used to have a totalitarian society where others took care of this. But when one has freedom, the most valuable gift, one has to have self-discipline. The classical Greek culture teaches us to question things the way Socrates did, the Socratic method is still useful – when someone proposes something for your state and nation, question it. Ask simple questions – “Is this needed?”, “Why?”, “How is this good for the children?”. Do not just accept it. Question it just for the sake of it.. question it openly. 🙂

    It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four.

    No need to exaggerate, just have a normal, strict common sense approach. That’s why formalities are a good thing to have, as I said, but they are not the most important. A nation, a tribe, a family, a family of similar peoples, needs to be able to stand without a state (most nations in history have been that way). But a strong state and an ideology is still important, to have more than one layer of protection. A nation is like a warrior and a strong, nationalist state is like a shield.

    There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors

    Our neighbors are static and have been static for millennia or for hundreds of years. I guess we are lucky that way. But the EU neighbors, in the future, will need a discussion. We go back to Socrates, we question, instead of just accepting things as a given.

    You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don’t agree that “they” can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume. They know how important it is, they are careful, that’s why they have had a “soft” approach. More dangerous for us that way, actually. You know how you walk during a blizzard on a snowed in path, really freezing? When you reach the limit of your strength you fall down comfortably in the snow and start falling asleep.. they say it’s the most pleasant feeling. It’s the feeling right before you die and they teach you to fight that pleasant sleep, to bring yourself out of it, to keep yourself alert.

    • Replies: @S
    @LatW



    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country...America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.
     
    Yes, and sometimes what has to be 'paid' is far too high of a cost.

    I'm in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka 'immigrants') should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called 'progressives', AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death, @AP, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @songbird
    @LatW


    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don’t agree that “they” can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume.
     
    Of course, in the purest spiritual sense, you are correct. But I fear that you are also wrong, if only in a narrow materialist sense, which however is not unimportant, and which ultimately does connect and interface with the spiritual realm.

    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve. It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

    Make an analogy to war. War has changed and evolved dramatically. Nobody would think of bringing Macedonian tactics, as good as they were in their day, to a modern battlefield.

    Well, there is another kind of war, today: the war for identity. And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.

    The promotion of terms, like 'white Irish' and 'white British.' Once, 'American' even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said 'white person', but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically. I don't think anyone really wanted to give that up - actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label - but it has been usurped. And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such. What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don't misunderstand my meaning.

    Replies: @LatW

  229. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father's time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations. Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified "one size fits all" approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea.

    He was an intelligent person. If Ukrainian political circles would have headed his advice, there would have been no war.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    It’s been a long, long time since I’ve read his famous political manifesto “Boomerang”, and he may have been another Skoropadsky type who was all over the board depending on the time of day, but I don’t remember him advocating a federative approach for Ukraine? During my college days, I was involved in getting him to come to Mpls when he first was released, even met with him privately in his hotel room after he got through with his big meeting with the whole diaspora crowd.

    This is the Valentyn Moroz that I remember:

    Moroz’s political utterances, for instance his view that Ukrainian independence should be secured by any possible means, including guerrilla war, appealed to supporters of the former guerrilla leader Stepan Bandera, but not to other sections of Canada’s Ukrainian diaspora. After the Ukrainian former political prisoner Leonid Plyushch had asserted that Ukraine needed “democracy, not fascism”, Moroz dismissed him as an “underdeveloped Ukrainian – a Jew.”[3]

    I don’t think that he would chacterize Zelensky as such today.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentyn_Moroz

  230. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    I say, time for them to go…
     
    Them disappearing will include (P~.98) totalitarian control on your consumption of wine, t-bone steak, cannabis, gasoline, heating and cooling energy, and an ad infinitum of consumer goods.

    Also your speech. They would control your thoughts if they had the power to do so. Attempting to control our thoughts will consume an increasing fraction of resources.

    Ted Kaczynski had a better plan and his plan was retarded.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Well, I am glad you took my screed against the lazy, parasitic Western middle classes seriously :)…

    On second thought, given the risks to my steaks, I will reconsider and let them stay…could they in turn be nice enough to stay mostly home, watch their stupid tv and video games, and refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns? Also, leave the fat wives (of all genders) home…we need to get back to some semblance of civilization…

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns?
     
    I march around nature constantly and one thing never observed there is fat people.

    As for your picturesque old towns, perhaps you might maybe lobby with your local tourist board to discourage fat tourists? Those fat bus seats look like a juicy target. If nothing else works you could send them an anonymous message that if they don't retire the buses it would be a real shame if something happened to them.

    Do your local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.

    On the other hand this probably is a subject you don't want to get me started on. : )

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/R4096E/large-heavy-woman-shopper-on-in-store-use-only-electric-shopping-scooter-R4096E.jpg

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Beckow

  231. @AP
    @Beckow


    “This can be done (and is being done) on the territory Ukraine already has.”

    That is an attempt at genocide by any standards. Nice that you admit to it
     
    Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people; ethnic Ukrainian kids are learning in their own language now.

    Russia is erasing towns and thousands of Russian-speaking people.

    An honest person would admit which action is closer to genocide.

    Lviv has programmers and researchers, not call centers….

    Stop lying, there is a total of 35k “IT workers” in the Lviv region
     
    It has increased since the war as companies have moved from places like Kharkiv and many more of Ukraine’s 200,000 IT workers have transferred to Lviv:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/22/business/ukraine-tech-companies-putin.html

    The entire country of Slovakia only has 28k such workers:

    https://www.itminions.be/en/blog/slovakia-tech-talent-goldmine

    around 70-80% work in customer support, that generally means answering phones or messages
     
    “Call center work” isn’t IT customer support.

    $3k, are you kidding? that’s what a good barista makes

     

    The average wage in Slovakia is less than a thousand Euros per month. So those 35,000 + new arrivals programmers in Lviv are making 3 times the average Slovak wage per month, in a city with a very low cost of living. They are living quite well.

    Average German wage is about the same as the average Lviv programmer wage.

    And programmers in Bratislava make no more than do programmers in Lviv:

    http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=2226&loctype=3&job=3&jobtype=2

    Given the Lviv us cheaper, the guys in Lviv do better than their Slovak colleagues.

    “That’s what Ukrainians want also. To be safe from Russia’s murdering.”

    It was the Ukies who started to murder the Russians in Donbas in 2014-15, nobody disputes that
     
    1. That was started by Russians when they crossed the border into Ukraine with their volunteers and weapons. Girkin and Pavlov weren’t Ukrainians.

    2. The Russian mass invasion and murder spree began in 2022, 7 years after 2015. Its already a separate event.

    “1,200-2,000 civilians killed according to Yugoslav estimates.”

    Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?

     

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

    A difference between NATO and Russia is that Russia kills far more Slavs though.

    Your point about nukes is true, but military plans can account for that – a fatally weakened, surrounded, check-mated Russia would have a hard time defending itself even w nukes
     
    No one is touching obnoxious but tiny North Korea, and everyone tolerates it’s missile overflies over places like Japan. But you think NATO would dare invade Russia?

    NATO would forever keep Russia’s hands off Ukraine. This is why Russia doesn’t want NATO there. It wants to reabsorb Ukraine. NATO itself is secondary to the main problem for Russia, which is the eternal loss of Ukraine. Russia would seek to end Ukraine even when - as was the case prior to invasion - NATO membership was very unlikely.

    And stop w Finland: a peaceful, rational country w 5 million people. There is simply no comparison to the Russo-phobic fuming madmen in Ukraine
     
    Now you’ve slipped and admitted that the problem wasn’t exactly NATO, but Ukraine.

    Finns btw don’t like Russia either and have stronger claims on Russian territory than Ukrainians do. You keep bringing up Volyn from 80 years ago but now you’ve conveniently forgotten what Finland had been up to at that time.

    It was unquestionable that Nato would get Ukraine at the first opportunity
     
    Like in 2008? No war then and Yushchenko was president. But it didn’t happen. Nor did it in every year since then.

    If you think that ‘territorial conflict’ would prevent it you have no understanding how weasel institutions work: they simply paper over it, declare it something else
     
    Your type like to conveniently change your story. First you brag about how by seizing Crimea and Donbas, Russia has blocked Ukraine from getting into NATO. Brilliant chess move by Putin! But now when you need a pending NATO membership as an excuse for a full invasion and attempt at regime change, that becomes irrelevant.

    Your hypocrisy and mendacity on display again and as usual. It also shows how undignified it is, to always lick the Russian boot as you do.

    Nato has been pushed out of Ukraine

     

    NATO is more in Ukraine now than it ever has been.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    …Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people

    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people…are you completely mental? Do you have even a very basic concept of how human rights work? There is also that pesky EU value of ‘minorities protection’…Brussels is trying to look the other way, but it will come back as a big issue. Just stop supporting genocide, is that so hard?

    ….”Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

    Do you understand that actions have consequences? Nato killed hundreds of thousands, attacked half a dozen countries in the last 25 years and you try to walk away from it. It doesn’t work that way. If you don’t understand it you could be a psychopath – a person who tries top compartmentalize his side’s crimes into a silo and obsessively focuses only on the misdeeds by the other side. It is a dishonest and losing position. You own the Nato wars, bombings, etc…so do the Ukies, they worship Nato.

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your “5%” chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade. I would remind you that any security force in any self-respecting country (US? UK?) would take anything over 15-20% seriously – this was over 50% likely and they moved to stop it. Don’t pretend that you don’t understand.

    It is also obvious that with the war (Kiev will likely lose) the chance of Ukraine in Nato dropped dramatically – a small Galician Nato is not the same level threat. I will give one concession: it is, as these things often are, a chicken-and-egg situation: Russia with its concerns (paranoia?) and actions fed it from the other side. In their defense, they live there – the Washington and London neo-cons don’t plan to…

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    “Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people”

    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people
     
    And now you dishonestly make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture and language on its territory and Germany and Turkey killing millions of Jews and Armenians.

    Would you also compare the language policies of France and the Baltics to the slaughter of Jews and Armenians?

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your “5%” chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade

     

    Like in 2008?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Beckow

  232. @LatW
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP
     
    I took a long time "categorizing" him, too, but I was able to finally (he's rather complex, with a mix of ideas and predispositions that are not always consistent or immediately visible to non-Anglos, but in the US it is possible to be that way).

    Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he has a right to his ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country (at home he would be more balanced, and, btw, there is nothing wrong with Poland-Galician integrationalism at all). America has to pay for everyone she takes in that way. So far America has been strong... but at this point America's burden is not light. It attests to America's strength.

    but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you.
     
    Not fully, but there is a rather significant overlap. I won't dissect him because, in this particular time and space, he's a friendly. Besides, the "endpoint", as you say, will not be something that either he, nor I, nor you will decide on our own, most likely. It will be a larger collective of people. We can only contribute our energy and hopes.

    Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries

     

    There are such systems in the Intermarium, but they are not ideal. These things need to be constantly managed. Elites and the military, as well as the police, need to be held to high standards but also have respect. The civic society needs to be free but similarly as the state institutions, needs to be held to a high accountability.

    And even tough and rigorous bureaucracy. A bureaucrat gets to approve somebody's asylum or immigration application - you don't want to leave that decision to be based on their mood or what they had for lunch, but based on intelligence, a strong patriotic conviction and, ideally, the interests of the nation (hopefully, in a way that you and I understand it). All of these components need to be in place. Ideology is important, even if it is not voiced in words and political documents, but in other symbols and gestures that everyone understands without saying.

    We used to have a totalitarian society where others took care of this. But when one has freedom, the most valuable gift, one has to have self-discipline. The classical Greek culture teaches us to question things the way Socrates did, the Socratic method is still useful - when someone proposes something for your state and nation, question it. Ask simple questions - "Is this needed?", "Why?", "How is this good for the children?". Do not just accept it. Question it just for the sake of it.. question it openly. :)


    It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four.
     
    No need to exaggerate, just have a normal, strict common sense approach. That's why formalities are a good thing to have, as I said, but they are not the most important. A nation, a tribe, a family, a family of similar peoples, needs to be able to stand without a state (most nations in history have been that way). But a strong state and an ideology is still important, to have more than one layer of protection. A nation is like a warrior and a strong, nationalist state is like a shield.

    There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors
     
    Our neighbors are static and have been static for millennia or for hundreds of years. I guess we are lucky that way. But the EU neighbors, in the future, will need a discussion. We go back to Socrates, we question, instead of just accepting things as a given.

    You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.
     
    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don't agree that "they" can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume. They know how important it is, they are careful, that's why they have had a "soft" approach. More dangerous for us that way, actually. You know how you walk during a blizzard on a snowed in path, really freezing? When you reach the limit of your strength you fall down comfortably in the snow and start falling asleep.. they say it's the most pleasant feeling. It's the feeling right before you die and they teach you to fight that pleasant sleep, to bring yourself out of it, to keep yourself alert.

    Replies: @S, @songbird

    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country…America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.

    Yes, and sometimes what has to be ‘paid’ is far too high of a cost.

    I’m in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka ‘immigrants’) should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called ‘progressives’, AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @S


    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called ‘progressives’
     
    This is debatable because you'd have to literally count everyone. I'm not opposing your general stance, if you wanted a pure Anglo-Germanic country, sure. That's your prerogative.

    However, your country would not be a world power and it wouldn't be all that famous or popular (I know, I know, you're ok with that). :)

    Martha Stewart is fully Polish, Jon Bon Jovi is Italian, and Tom Brady is half Polish.

    It's a give and take.

    And... why should you get to keep the whole beautiful continent all to yourself? :) Big question. I'm not leaning in either direction, just asking a rhetorical question.

    , @sudden death
    @S


    I’m in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka ‘immigrants’) should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.
     
    While leaving all the previously imported Western African slaves intact in there;)
    , @AP
    @S


    I’m in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka ‘immigrants’) should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin
     
    In which case this country would have been minority-European by now, not only because those non-Anglos add to the USA’s European population but also because Anglos the world over are voting to replace themselves in their own countries - Britain, Canada, Australia. The WASPs in the USA are strongly in favor of it. Left to their own devices, people like you end themselves. You need us to save you.

    It’s also amusing that you do not even know your own native language properly.


    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called ‘progressives’, AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.
     
    Please keep me out of your stupid nonsensical fantasies.

    I have no use for “progressives.” You seem to be in rebellion against your own elites which would make you a progressive, who doesn’t know his place. Or perhaps, you are from the backcountry, in which case your anti-elitism is more legitimate and traditional, but in opposition to traditions other than your own.

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @S

    Kevin MacDonald is someone for whom the Jungian archetype of "the innocent" is synonymous with whites, "the magician" with Jews, and "the bad king" and "the vampire" as mostly white elites though sometimes also Jewish.

    Of course, each and every single one of these is projection of his own deeply narcissistic worldview, as I have literally described narcissism in conventionally Jungian terms*, but it is astonishing how well these archetypes fit his work.

    The reality that he thinks the Jews warp is only his own magician warping his.

    Does this mean he is actually narcisistic in his own life? No, in fact it could mean he is a co-dependent type who hides this co-dependent personality from himself via performances of masculinity. It would also make him extremely sucseptible to persuasion by obviously narcisistic bombastic types exactly like Ritter and MacGregor. Furthermore, he would likely be drawn to women, or men, who were that type, and this would confirm, if heterosexual, his misogynistic view of women, by a selection effect operating on his own experience, and if a quiet homosexual, it would likely be an aspect of his fantasies. And honestly, he could end up doing both.

    * https://psychcentral.com/pro/recovery-expert/2018/09/narcissism-explained-jungian-theory#11

    Replies: @Greasy William

  233. @S
    @LatW



    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country...America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.
     
    Yes, and sometimes what has to be 'paid' is far too high of a cost.

    I'm in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka 'immigrants') should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called 'progressives', AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death, @AP, @Leaves No Shadow

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called ‘progressives’

    This is debatable because you’d have to literally count everyone. I’m not opposing your general stance, if you wanted a pure Anglo-Germanic country, sure. That’s your prerogative.

    However, your country would not be a world power and it wouldn’t be all that famous or popular (I know, I know, you’re ok with that). 🙂

    Martha Stewart is fully Polish, Jon Bon Jovi is Italian, and Tom Brady is half Polish.

    It’s a give and take.

    And… why should you get to keep the whole beautiful continent all to yourself? 🙂 Big question. I’m not leaning in either direction, just asking a rhetorical question.

  234. @songbird
    @LatW


    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation.
     
    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    But beyond that, we have seen the path of the EU, and I am convinced that it is the organic path of any such organization. Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four. That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    But even for those who aren't attached to it, and don't mind their neighbors. There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors, and new peoples. You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    Replies: @LatW, @A123, @AP

    design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. … That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    Identity is trained. To the extent migration occurs it has to be backed up by assimilation.

    Keeping control of education is key. Many have warned of this: (1)

    Yesterday, commenter “Paul Nachman” kindly drew our attention to this talk by Thomas Sowell on multicultualism. It was given some time in the 1990s, and displays Sowell’s characteristic sharpness of observation and clarity of expression He grasped the problem long before most people even noticed the phenomenon.

    An excerpt:

    But is there any evidence that colleges that have gone whole hog into multiculturalism have better relations among the various groups on campus? Or is it precisely on such campuses that separatism and hostility are worse than on campuses that have not gone in for the multicultural craze?

    You want to see multiculturalism in action? Look at Yugoslavia, at Lebanon, at Sri Lanka, at Northern Ireland, at Azerbaijan, or wherever else group “identity” has been hyped. There is no point in the multiculturalists’ saying that this is not what they have in mind. You might as well open the floodgates and then say that you don’t mean for people to drown. Once you have opened the floodgates, you can’t tell the water where to do.

    If the “have nots” can destroy workers via wealth extraction — cohesiveness is a pipe dream. Similarly, if multiculturalists can swamp unifying nationalism, the system will inevitability fail.

    If nations are to have elections, then the system needs restrictions. Heinlein’s Starship Troopers introduced the idea of full citizens with the vote, recognized residents with rights but no vote. However it was not dwelled on in depth. Limiting the vote to only committed nationalists makes a great deal of sense. How would one design such a system?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/sowell-on-multiculturalism/

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123


    Limiting the vote to only committed nationalists makes a great deal of sense. How would one design such a system?
     
    This is a perennial question, but a good one. While I believe that what prevails is not often the popular will, I also simultaneously believe the very idea of radical democratic universalism causes severe harm to society.

    At a minimum, I think that we should attempt to weed out voters with no future-orientation. One marker of this might be people who can't understand conditional hypotheticals (unfortunately, a substantial fraction of the population.)

    IMO, we should also encourage marriage and natalism, for reasons of future orientation. The difficult part of this might be how to do it effectively, without imbalancing society towards gerontocracy and senescence. (because less young people are married than old)

    I will not attempt to float a complete strategy, only say that I think we need to come up with an alternative system where real estate is not seen as the default way to store wealth, and, so we make it relatively easy for working people to afford housing and homes. And, perhaps, we even need come up with an alternative system to social security and medicare.

    Somehow, me must claw our way back up to replacement and sustainability, no matter how many it may offend.

  235. @Mikel
    @sudden death


    the only place from above mentioned, where it ended differently than Spain eventually, was the place with armed intervention from RF’ians.
     
    I do not want this to sound like any kind of moral comparison between Southwestern Europeans versus Eastern Slavs. I don't have any particular sympathy for the imperialist Spaniards or the woke Catalans separatists. I don't even sympathize much with my old countrymen. When I go there I feel like a foreigner surrounded by people stuck in a different era. Even when I lived there I felt that the ones who didn't support violence were too cowardly to oppose it openly and confront the radical bullies who imposed a reign of silence in every town.

    But it's you who is making a comparison that objectively doesn't stand. In all the places I've mentioned I remember at least two things: people killed by their political opponents (they even shot the major of Kharkiv, who had to be evacuated to a hospital in Israel) and HRW documenting tortures, disappearances and arbitrary detentions. In Catalonia one person lost her eye and it wasn't intentional. There were some rather brutal scenes too, captured by the international press at the polling stations. That was all. Different situations and a very different history and social evolution during the 20th century that led to opposite consequences.

    The Spanish public opinion, from what I can gather, is massively in favor of the Ukrainians in this war anyway, so things may sadly be transitioning towards a higher acceptance of violence, like in the 30s.

    Replies: @sudden death

    That mentioned Kharkov mayor Kernes was not supporting joining RF at the time, so could have been shot by RF’ians as well, cause then he sucesfully returned into that horrible UA Maidan dictatorship and worked as a mayor further there next six years up until he died from Covid.

    So despite all those immediate HRW noted violations during ensuing initial political chaos, everything calmed/normalized more or less quite quickly without a direct war, so in that aspect it ended like in Spain still, if the criteria is war/no war. If the criteria is zero any violations or deadly victims at all, then yes, it ended bit differently.

  236. @Mr. Hack
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    much more intense and spicy!
     
    I can only imagine. I always get this carousel placed on my table with about 4 different types of hot spices that I can use to increase the voltage, if I think it's necessary (and I almost always put at least a little into my main dish). If I feel a cold coming on, I put a lot on, so that I can feel the heat in the nasal cavities in my head, and stop the progression right there on the spot. :-)

    But the nice thing about Thai food is that it doesn't need to be very spicy at all. Flavors like peanuts, Thai basil, lemon grass, can be real tasty and are often used as the main taste profile of many dishes. Another thing about Thai food that most Americans don't realize is that it's a very varied sort of cuisine, changing a lot depending on the region within Thailand that you find yourself. I watch Thai food shows on the tube and have learned about this, even while I'm at some of the restaurants where they often play Thai foodie travelogs within the premises. We really are only experiencing the "tip of the iceberg", here in the states.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    One of the fascinating things about Thailand, or Japan, or almost anywhere in Asia, is the incredible variety and extent of food, that reflects regional cuisine and just imagination.

    Walking through a Thai food market, or a Japanese, you are treated to an astonishing explosion of food variety – little stalls selling everything imaginable. It’s quite a delight, what I imagine a market in Medieval Europe to have been like, before everything was “rationalized” and made “efficient” 🙂

    I want to write more about this – my sense is that Asia is “horizontally creative” while the West is – or has been, hopefully it’s changing – “vertically creative”.

    What I mean is, Asia doesn’t really change so very much or invent anything really new or dramatic, but explores the incredibly rich possibilities of being human as it is now – so we all love to eat, so Asia will really get down to exploring the full range of what that might mean. Or just being human in general – Asian cities pack a maximum of human “stuff” in the space available – nothing streamlined or efficient – to create maximum entertainment for being human.

    The West on the other hand will focus on creating rather streamlined and efficient – and perhaps somewhat boring, comparatively speaking – spaces, but focus on creative “ascent” – the next big thing moving forward, etc, the next new technology or thing that will transform human life, etc.

    It’s an interesting difference, but perhaps changing – I do think so. (Vertical ascent is a mistake, imo).

    And it ties into your point about regional differences in cuisine – India and China, too, have incredible regional variety, and even a relatively small country like Thailand. And that’s great!

    Maximum exploration of the human condition it is now is what I favor 🙂

  237. @S
    @LatW



    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country...America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.
     
    Yes, and sometimes what has to be 'paid' is far too high of a cost.

    I'm in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka 'immigrants') should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called 'progressives', AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death, @AP, @Leaves No Shadow

    I’m in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka ‘immigrants’) should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    While leaving all the previously imported Western African slaves intact in there;)

  238. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    I think we are devolving toward more tribalism everywhere. I don’t think that this is entirely negative. Humans need a clan and a tribe to rely upon. 
     
    This is the crux of the issue, imho. I don't have much time to elaborate but we humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years as a tribal species. During all of that time using violence to keep outsiders away from our hunting-gathering space made perfect sense, from a survival perspective. Defending your tribe was just a natural extension of defending your family, which not even the most extremist pacifists would object to, I think. And even if we hadn't have that particular evolution we have the same territorial instinct of all members of the animalia group in the eukaryotes domain.

    People may rationalize the necessity of war in many different ways but it all boils down to our very deep, ancestral instincts. However, we don't live in tribal structures anymore at all. Nation states are a very novel, abstract structure that mimics the tribe that, as you correctly point out, we still feel the need to belong to but are radically different. People being rounded up in Odessa to be forced to kill what they perhaps consider their own kin is the perfect example of this difference.

    Besides, we are the only rational species on this planet. Chimpanzees may go to war against a neighboring group and use much more violence than necessary without giving it any thought or feeling any moral compunction but our brains evolved too much and we are not like that.

    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later. So, paradoxically, our survival now depends on being able to put under strict control an instinct that until recently was beneficial for our survival.

    In other words, I agree with you on the importance of the human tribal dimension but I disagree on the benefits of turning back to it in the present circumstances.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later.

    The problem may lie in the fact that human brains and bodies haven’t been able to evolve to keep up with our capacity to modify our environment. Then you get an evolutionary mismatch where the species is no longer adapted to its environment and you may see reduction in numbers or the risk of something like an extinction event.

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    These issues seem to be looming in some Western European countries as a result of wealth disparities and demographic change, though things are starting from a high base in terms of living standards and expectations. I wondered about the East Slav sphere as well, where distrust seems to have grown around how elites dependent on natural resource exploitation and the security forces are going to manage the future for the wider population.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts


    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again
     
    It doesn't really matter whose "lines" die out - first of all, lines don't die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.

    "You" are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born...a black, or a Jew :)

    In fact, I suspect, am even quite certain, that a majority of people on this forum will have to be born Black or Jewish, in the next incarnation :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.
     
    Yes, that's the Great Reset in a nutshell. But it was avoidable if we kept evolving towards the infinite ressources of the Space era. If we would have adopted the vision of the Russian Cosmism. Unfortunately, this vision cannot be applied to Capitalism because it is fundamentally altruistic. Also this vision would lead to the current global elites losing their competitive advantage. Therefore, they would never allow humankind to enter the Space colonization era without having first ensured a total control upon the majority of humans. Actually what is left of the majority of humans at that time - biorobots. Our predicament is man made, although it has at its core a demonic egotism parading as a virtue. They are sociopaths that need to continuously affirm their superiority and exert control upon others.



    For Russian Cosmism (which was the esoteric doctrine behind the acting of some among the brightest Bolshevik intellectuals) one might start reading here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Fyodorovich_Fyodorov

    BTW, one of the reasons I hate and despise Pynya is because he has considerably weakened this typically Russian inclination towards altruistic idealism and has at the same time killed Russian space industry. He is the anti-Cosmist par excellence. Perhaps that's part of his job.
    , @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.
     
    Well, I think that civilization has always carried that trade-off with it. The widespread, anarchic violence of the tribal societies was reduced by humans organizing themselves in communities where violence was more structured and monopolized by a ruling cast. These elites historically used it in their own interest more than in the interest of their communities but, as AP has often pointed out, our individual chances of getting murdered went dramatically down with these social arrangements.

    I am not too optimistic long-term but I think that the evolution since the Neolithic has been generally positive. In the current advanced societies ordinary people have a historically unprecedented control over how the state executes its monopoly on violence. Sometimes people even use that control in a negative way that actually increases violence and harm to themselves (eg "defund the police", decriminalization of minor felonies because some communities just can't avoid committing them, etc) but in recent times there has also been a regression when it comes to major violence (war) with elites taking these dramatic decisions and people having virtually no say in them. Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty that I wouldn't have imagined only a year ago, even with Russia invading Ukraine.

    Part of the problem may have been that most advanced societies, and particularly the US, abolished general conscription and substituted it with armed forces composed of mercenaries. This was a natural evolution that I've always found positive because it's a much better reflection of society's needs and wishes. We don't want to disarm ourselves in this still violent world but we're not motivated enough to fight for what the leaders of our nation-stated decide are our interest so the mercenary solution is logical. However, this has also brought about a very big problem: our leaders are more prone than before to initiate wars, especially if they are far away from us. Only those who signed a voluntary contract do the dying so they don't need to worry about a discontent population like they had to do in the times of Vietnam. Most people in the US (and possibly in the UK) don't even know where exactly some of their compatriots are killing and dying and don't care too much either.

    Perhaps the US should return to mandatory conscription and then go through another Vietnam experience (there is zero doubt that the people in DC would find another one sooner or later) for things to retake the positive evolution that characterized the second part of the 20th century. That would imperil my son though so I will personally never vote for it.

    Replies: @LatW

  239. @QCIC
    @A123

    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?

    Replies: @A123

    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?

    If the admission makes sense. The confessor would need:

    — authority
    — resources
    — motive
    — capabilities & competence

    Then answer key questions:

    — Why this geography? (1)
      
    — Why a 17 hour delay on pipe #3?
    — Why leave pipe #4 undamaged?

    UR being a conspiracy site creates issues. It attracts commenters prone to leap to complex solution when more straightforward ones are available.

    • Did the event have overlap with politicians talking about a problem? Certainly.

    • Does that make those politicians the most likely explanation? No. That is a leap.

    • How competent are politicians? They are skilled enough to commission such a plan. The plan delivers a foul up. And, they talk so much they bring suspicion themselves.

    Ask these questions about the WUHAN-19 virus or NordStream. It is easy to see conspiracy explanations popping out that the woodwork that ultimately make little sense.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    I'll take this as a "No". LOL.

    Replies: @A123

  240. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    selfish gene and the Evolution

     

    In this theory, the genes use the animal as a physical media (of course, the genes are also physical, but the information encoded surpasses the chains of protein).

    Then genes could be seen as information encoded by the physical media (animals). In the interaction of physical media (animals) with environment and time, the animals are like the past answer sheets for exams. How correct the answers can be, is regularly tested by evolution. It is a data processing (with some competitive activities similar to some methods already used in machine learning like generative adversarial networks).


    future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere.
     
    I was asking about this film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.I._Artificial_Intelligence#Plot I think people in the forum could find the story interesting.

    It reminded of your posts. Although the answer of the writers is different.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I have seen AI when it was in the movie theaters. I forgot the main part of the plot with the exception of the android kid traveling accross the future US after running from a bourgeois home and being nearly destroyed by some evil antirobot Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in Hollywood scenarios and cannot be otherwise). IIRC it was the last movie of Stanley Kubrick, that he hadn’t had time to finish and that was completed by someone else (Spielberg?).

    I am wondering why this movie brought my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information towards consciousness. I haven’t had any philosophical musings about it at the time, unlike after seeing the Matrix. I have just found it touching and sad, and in a sense it made me think of Solaris (the book by Lem, not the movie by Tarkovsky) because of the unrequited love of the robot kid for “his mother” and the impossibility of reaching an objective state of connection to the other.

    But yes, coming back to what we discussed earlier, basically what we are witnessing is information evolving towards forms of organisation that are more adapted to manipulate matter/energy/information itself, these three semantic categories being human-made descriptors for the Ontological Reality (Whole of Being in itself).

    [MORE]

    I (perhaps wrongly) believe that the True Nature of Ontological Reality is ineffable. Anything that can be said about it is just descriptors – human made definitions – words. These words are the product of our consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution. As an example, we see colors and not wavelengths of photons, we feel solid and material something that is made of 99,9999… void etc. Of course what I write here is platitudes and clichés, but I think that they correspond to our existential situation which is basically wrong perception inevitably leading to ignorance (that’s the core of Buddhadharma here).

    What is more peculiar is that we have a difficult time defining information itself. My idiosyncratic definition of information is “any pattern of distribution of matter/energy that can be detected by any type of receptor”. It doesn’t necessarily contain meaning and is not necessarily connected to anything except a stochastic distribution of bits. Now, out of necessity,any receptor is itself a “pattern of distribution of matter/energy” therefore it is itself a sum of information – an “information system”. Following from here information is perceived by information and processed as information. We live in an information Reality we are information ourselves.

    If we add to it that according to modern physics, everything can be reduced to quarks, leptons, gluons etc. and that those can be described as potential in their respective quantum fields that “permeate” (for a lack of better word) our Universe, and that quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel’s meaning.

    Perhaps that’s what a Sufi could term “the Veil of ignorance” that is made as an Orthodox Christian would perhaps say of “subtle energies” of the Palamite Theology hiding the Essence (Ousia) of God. Then the Sufi and the Orthodox Christian might discuss it with a Buddhist who would note that the experience of this Ontological Reality is of necessity a physico-psychological one, made in the here and now, as constructed from elemental units – the dharmas. And the Hinduist would concur that “Tat tvam asi” (You are that).

    Then the Atheist would call 911 and send them all to a mental asylum for not stopping at the Veil of Ignorance and trying to imagine something beneath it.

    Sorry, I digresses again. Same as usual.

    Not sure whether what I wrote makes any sense. But I would like to read what you think of it. And thanks of making me think realize that AI algorithms are sometimes (or is it always?) using competing neural network models. Very interesting, I will have to read about it.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution.
     
    Why would the mind be the same as the animal? It can be something in the different category.

    Which is much less complicated topic, the "selfish gene theory" believes the genes are self-replicating sections of code, which the animal is physically processing in relation to the environment. But the animal and the machine instructions they encode are not the same although there is interaction between these.

    For example, the single animal lives a few decades, while the same blocs of the machine instructions are encoded by many animals, and earlier sections of the data are encoded by most all current and past animals and plants. (Generally, it's only more recent added parts of the code which are limited to single species of animals).

    Our mind could have a similar kinds of not identical relation where it is not the animal although there is an interaction with the animal.


    difficult time defining information itself

     

    Sure, but without needing an abstraction, DNA is digital code. It's digital arrangement of the 64 possible values. It's like designed to compute on java bytecode.*

    Genetics are an example of machine language. But in physics they can see much more abstract things as information.


    my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information

     

    Because you write in the end of your post " I care so much about my genetic" (transmission of the instruction sequences encoded by the animals), from beginning of history "to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere".

    Views are "idiosyncratic", but it reminds of this film, as it is like the story of the end of the film, where a future lifeform is trying to understanding humans, after humans have died.

    A robot boy in 2200 AD was trying to attain the love of a human mother.

    After being abandoned in the hate of the human society, he is re-discovered in 4200 AD by a future nonhuman species.

    Although for the writers, the future nonhuman species in the film which discover robot boy, are not interested in the genetic information, but they believe the only important transmission of information is his reflection of the human emotions -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8Xp7ozYME.

    This message of the writers of the film, is the emotions would be the interesting result of humans, not the more basic information.


    Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in
    Hollywood
     
    The boy is a kind of Jesus and Mary image, representing love.

    Persecution of the robots is related to the earlier films about the holocaust by the director, representing. There is the film writers are trying to show contrast of love and hate.


    -

    * There is the task

    https://i.imgur.com/crfxzRV.png

    https://i.imgur.com/VrRXuJK.png

    https://i.imgur.com/IxhhfcU.png

    https://i.imgur.com/67n4G7f.png

    https://i.imgur.com/vfXn44W.png

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  241. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people
     
    Why do you think our evolution stopped 20,000 years ago?

    In most of Europe, Middle East, and Asia people have lived in populated agricultural communities for thousands of years and in urban environments for many hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    The Neolithic Revolution had led to “human domestication”, which is a narrowing of our total mental capabilities and a selection of some peculiar mental aptitudes (mathematical thinking is one of those). But it hasn’t affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn’t really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    But it hasn’t affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn’t really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.
     
    https://www.amazon.com/000-Year-Explosion-Civilization-Accelerated-ebook/dp/B0042FZRPC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    “A burst of innovation followed the expansion of modern humans out of Africa. Signs of that change existed in Africa before the expansion, but the pattern became much stronger in Europe some 20,000 years later, after anatomically modern humans had encountered and displaced the Neanderthals. That transition to full behavioral modernity—as seen in the archaeological record—occurred patchily and finished later in other parts of Eurasia. We argue that even limited gene flow from Neanderthals (and perhaps other archaic humans) would have allowed anatomically modern humans to acquire most of their favorable alleles. We believe that this sudden influx of adaptive alleles contributed to the growth of the capabilities that made up the “human revolution,” and we believe that this introgression from archaic human populations will prove central to the story of modern human origins. So by 40,000 years ago, humans had become both anatomically and behaviorally modern (which is not to say they were exactly like people today). They had vastly greater powers of innovation than their ancestors, likely owing in part to genes stolen from their Neanderthal cousins. The speed of cultural change increased by tens of times, and when the glaciers retreated and new opportunities arose, it accelerated further.”

    Replies: @Yahya

  242. @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later.
     
    The problem may lie in the fact that human brains and bodies haven't been able to evolve to keep up with our capacity to modify our environment. Then you get an evolutionary mismatch where the species is no longer adapted to its environment and you may see reduction in numbers or the risk of something like an extinction event.

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    These issues seem to be looming in some Western European countries as a result of wealth disparities and demographic change, though things are starting from a high base in terms of living standards and expectations. I wondered about the East Slav sphere as well, where distrust seems to have grown around how elites dependent on natural resource exploitation and the security forces are going to manage the future for the wider population.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool, @Mikel

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again

    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.

    “You” are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew 🙂

    In fact, I suspect, am even quite certain, that a majority of people on this forum will have to be born Black or Jewish, in the next incarnation 🙂

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.
     
    So it's okay if our bloodlines become extinct and our offspring walk the Earth no longer.

    The material world and even our own bodies are unimportant.

    We shall leave it all to the Chosen Ones.

    The best among us will be absorbed.


    There's really nothing to worry about.

    Thanks for enlightening us !

    (You go here: https://www.unz.com/article/lev-gumilev-and-the-khazar-chimera/)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack

    , @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed...
     
    I was thinking of lines of descent here, e.g. if I had no children my line of descent wouldn't continue.

    “You” are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew.
     
    But reincarnation has to be true for this to be the case. I'm possibly still too influenced by regressive Scholastic philosophy to think a full person can exist without their physical body.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Dmitry

  243. @S
    @songbird


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you?
     
    Similarly, Tholian Fiend took great offence that they actually had Northern Europeans (ie 'Whites') playing Vikings in a recent movie by that same name, and not 'persons of color' instead.

    Tholian Fiend, who probably is actually a sub-continental like many think rather than an actual Scandinavian, and Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs. They've sold their fellow man, their own people, and ultimately their own individual selves out as well, and effectively work for a corrupt and truly genocidal global establishment.

    It was for site trolls like these that they invented the 'ignore commentator' button for.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs.

    Your “insults” are even lamer and more timid than songbird. I wish silviosilver would come back so I can have a proper sparring partner. You are too much of a wimp to even address your insult directly to my person. Just typically feminine passive-aggressiveness.

    Since you’ve taken to declaring all migrants, including most recently Slavic untermensch, as grifters, parasites etc. I wonder if you could enlighten us with your own non-migrant, indigenous background. You’ve been curiously circumspect about your ancestry. But please do tell us about your ancient American indigenous lineage, and how none of your ancestors migrated from one place to another to improve their standard of living. And that they’ve never participated in the genocidal erasure of a certain other group’s culture during their conquest of the New World.

    • Replies: @Max Payne
    @Yahya

    Don't take it personal. LOL, "sell outs". That's cute.

    As lame as Karlin has turned out to be I can totally understand why he opted out of this place. Too many soyboys and their "muh white genocide" nonsense (basically 90% of S's comments).

    S is your typical middle to late aged white guy who doesn't realize 30% of the users on Unz.com are Indian (or so I suspect). The vast majority of the other goyim come from Anglin and Sailer with their own socially awkward and highly disconnected-from-reality bubble.

    The same type of people who probably never touched a computer in their entire lives until Apple put an over glorified, overpriced, under performing Fisher Price calculator in their hands (and then they complain about 'muh censorship'). Totally high IQ bruh.

    Replies: @Yahya

  244. @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later.
     
    The problem may lie in the fact that human brains and bodies haven't been able to evolve to keep up with our capacity to modify our environment. Then you get an evolutionary mismatch where the species is no longer adapted to its environment and you may see reduction in numbers or the risk of something like an extinction event.

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    These issues seem to be looming in some Western European countries as a result of wealth disparities and demographic change, though things are starting from a high base in terms of living standards and expectations. I wondered about the East Slav sphere as well, where distrust seems to have grown around how elites dependent on natural resource exploitation and the security forces are going to manage the future for the wider population.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool, @Mikel

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    Yes, that’s the Great Reset in a nutshell. But it was avoidable if we kept evolving towards the infinite ressources of the Space era. If we would have adopted the vision of the Russian Cosmism. Unfortunately, this vision cannot be applied to Capitalism because it is fundamentally altruistic. Also this vision would lead to the current global elites losing their competitive advantage. Therefore, they would never allow humankind to enter the Space colonization era without having first ensured a total control upon the majority of humans. Actually what is left of the majority of humans at that time – biorobots. Our predicament is man made, although it has at its core a demonic egotism parading as a virtue. They are sociopaths that need to continuously affirm their superiority and exert control upon others.

    [MORE]

    For Russian Cosmism (which was the esoteric doctrine behind the acting of some among the brightest Bolshevik intellectuals) one might start reading here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Fyodorovich_Fyodorov

    BTW, one of the reasons I hate and despise Pynya is because he has considerably weakened this typically Russian inclination towards altruistic idealism and has at the same time killed Russian space industry. He is the anti-Cosmist par excellence. Perhaps that’s part of his job.

  245. Arthur Morgan
    @ArthurM40330824
    #German post warning for #Ukrainian fighters not to display Nazi signs while in #Germany or face a punishment.
    So 🇩🇪are well aware who they are dealing with and it doesn’t cause a bit of a pause and reexamination?

    [MORE]

  246. LogKa
    @LogKa11
    Ukrainian soldier performs a Nazi Salute whilst sitting on top of a German Leopard 2 tank in Poland.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Mikhail

    Some not all Ukrainians. That said, the Nazi to neo-Nazi ones have freer range in Kiev regime-controlled Ukraine than those with moderate pro-Russian views, thereby explaining why the Kiev regime is unable to maintain Ukraine's Commie drawn boundary.

    , @sudden death
    @Mikhail

    Some(?) Z-tards are pathetic ignoramuses and/or dishonest propagandons:


    Sieg Heil salute, is a gesture that was used as a greeting in Nazi Germany. The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Hitler_1929_crop.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @LatW
    @Mikhail

    It's actually more of an "I love you" gesture. Some EE men do this gesture sometimes, you bump your fist lightly at your heart - it means "love, strenght, pride". It's ridiculous, for these Western Putinoids, now every movement of your right arm is a "sieg". Geez.
    Nice fellow in the video.

    Replies: @AP

  247. @Mikhail
    LogKa
    @LogKa11
    Ukrainian soldier performs a Nazi Salute whilst sitting on top of a German Leopard 2 tank in Poland.

    https://twitter.com/LogKa11/status/1625471092901961729

    Replies: @Mikhail, @sudden death, @LatW

    Some not all Ukrainians. That said, the Nazi to neo-Nazi ones have freer range in Kiev regime-controlled Ukraine than those with moderate pro-Russian views, thereby explaining why the Kiev regime is unable to maintain Ukraine’s Commie drawn boundary.

  248. @Mikhail
    LogKa
    @LogKa11
    Ukrainian soldier performs a Nazi Salute whilst sitting on top of a German Leopard 2 tank in Poland.

    https://twitter.com/LogKa11/status/1625471092901961729

    Replies: @Mikhail, @sudden death, @LatW

    Some(?) Z-tards are pathetic ignoramuses and/or dishonest propagandons:

    Sieg Heil salute, is a gesture that was used as a greeting in Nazi Germany. The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    Зигу кидать можно по разному.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  249. @songbird
    @Yahya


    Maddow isn’t even 1/8th Middle Eastern
     
    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    The Chinese Golden Age occurred under the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty.
     
    Just how cosmopolitan was it, separated by the Himalayas, the Gobi, and the Pacific, and with the closer and more habitable places subjected to wave, after wave of Han colonization, from extremely fertile river valley bases, which had no close parallels in that geographic sphere? What would be the percentage of non-Han within core Han areas, not counting colonial expansions which brought them in contact with China's current minorities? (quite a many of them fairly Han-looking) More than 1%? 2%? There were <20,000 foreigners in China at the time of the Boxer Rebellion (including Japanese), and that was with steamships and rail.

    Rome during its imperial heights was filled with immigrants from the Middle East and the Balkans
     
    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth. The Aeneid (not a novel) is quite good with caveats, but it is based on much older myths (How old is the first vase with Aeneas carrying his father on his shoulders?), and so it shouldn't be considered a purely imperial product.

    There really isn't any close historical analogue to the modern West that was a success story. Certainly not with the same percentages. (Though it hasn't stopped a lot of revisionists from trying)

    Western music arguably reached its apex in the 19th century.
     
    I would say this is fairly self-evident. Musical tradition will be strongest when there are (1.) noble patrons, and (2.) the highest percentage of live performers. Phonograph was invented in about 1877, and first radio broadcast of music, in my very own neck of the woods, was in 1906.

    Anglin doesn’t need to be of partial German descent to LARP as a Nazi.

    Just look at the likes of songbird.
     
    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don't support the dispossession of my people. Tell me, are all Arab elites as high-minded and generous as you? I guess you've won me over, and I'll now choose sides in the Palestinian conflict, with the future expectation, without the slightest doubt in my mind, that the Palestinians and the Arabs who say they support them are honorable people and that my support will be reciprocal.

    Keep winning friends and influencing people! You are a fine ambassador for Arabs everywhere!

    Replies: @S, @Yahya

    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    Irrelevant. You said “Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern” as if to imply she’s not really a Western women; which is mind-bogglingly stupid. Almost like saying African-Americans aren’t black because they have “substantial” European ancestry.

    What would be the percentage of non-Han

    25-50%

    In light of this appreciation for cultural diversity, the Tang Dynasty saw the influx of thousands of foreigners who came to live in Chinese commercial hub cities such as Canton and Chang’an. Expatriates spilled in from all over Asia and beyond, with a bounty of people from Persia, Arabia, India, Korea, and Southeast and Central Asia. Chinese cities became bustling epicenters of commerce and trade, abundant in foreign residents and the plethora of cultural riches that they brought with them. Southern port cities such as Canton and Fuzhou swelled with foreigners as trade expanded in Southeast Asia and along the Chinese coast. A census taken in 742 CE showed that the foreign proportion of the registered population had massively increased from nearly a quarter in the early seventh century to nearly half by the mid seventh century, with an estimated 200,000 foreigners in residence in Canton alone.

    https://www.thecollector.com/tang-dynasty-golden-age-china/

    [MORE]

    This is a piece of artwork from the Tang era:

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West. You make the mistake of assuming diversity only exits in the modern West (“muh unparalleled invasion”). Once again, the presence of diversity is no impediment to cultural flourishing. You still haven’t refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc. It doesn’t mean all forms of migration is good; or that diversity is a necessary condition for cultural flourishing. But you are wrong to assume that diversity is an impediment to cultural flourishing. You are too ideologically racist anyway to accept this fact; there’s no use in arguing with you.

    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth.

    That Roman culture hasn’t survived doesn’t have any bearing on its worthiness or sophistication. Every culture dies eventually. Are you going to tell me classical music isn’t all that because it’s become an almost extinct art form? Or that Ancient Egypt was small potatoes because it’s culture “only” lasted 3,000 years?

    The Romans weren’t as intellectually productive as the Greeks, not because of diversity; but because their deeply-rooted aversion to lexus (self-indulgence) and inertia (idleness). The Roman code, established during the Republic, demanded that Roman gentleman embody vigor and industriousness; which is antithical to the leisurely disposition needed to acquire knowledge. The Romans directed their intellectual efforts to administration and war-making; whereas Greeks put more attachment to scholarly and intellectual pursuits. Again, these are matters of cultural differences, not ethnic compositions.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed. Your founding fathers otherwise would not have modelled their constitution and public buildings on Roman laws and architecture.

    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people.

    I call you a Nazi because of your bizarre obsession with Germany. TL wasn’t even specifically talking about Germany when she stated that cultured and intelligent Iranians were desirable immigrants. But of course, you just had to shift the topic to Germany. Lol.

    Germans aren’t your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American. You presuming to dictate which group of people in Germany should be deported; is like me telling Iranians they should deport the x and y group. I have never and would never presume to tell Iranians they should deport the Afghan refugees in their country; or go around calling them parasites and invaders. That would just be gawky and obnoxious; it’s none of my business.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Yahya

    Roman writers were huge in Europe after the Renaissance, Horace, Virgil, Cicero, Tacitus, etc - Nietzsche even said they were more important than the Greeks in forming the European sensibility, although I don't know if I agree with him.

    Horace is particularly good on the simple life in nature, needing little, enjoying a simple meal of beans and bacon, in some beautiful natural setting. Horace was hugely important to northern Europeans later on.

    When Patrick Leigh Fermor captured that German general on Crete in the war, the first thing they did was exchange lines of Horace :)

    But that's when Europe had a culture, rooted in things of the Spirit.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.
     
    The Roman empire is not over.

    It morphed into the Roman Catholic hegemony which was taken over by the Venetian and Florentine banking organizations which migrated to London Amsterdam Geneva (largely Jew) banks which is where we are today. Rome 4.0.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @songbird
    @Yahya


    >Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    Irrelevant. You said “Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern”
     
    Original context, lost to both your feeble mind and Trix's, was the "Nazi" Anglin's thought processes. The rest was, like you, a joke. Maddow's incredible ugliness has made her the butt of yahyas, even in American pop culture, but usually in a more PC way, which doesn't involve demos.

    And no, I will not accept Maddow! Even if she was pure Euro, she would still be a hideous, traitorous lesbo looking to do her bit to destroy Western society, and "overthrow the patriarchy." My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.
     
    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.

    You still haven’t refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc.
     
    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud] Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!

    >Canton and Fuzhou
     
    I said "core Han areas" (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified "no colonial areas" (as in the areas the Han colonized)! Are you really so much of a fool that you would cite the Southern coast of China, to me as an area the Han originated in?

    Read it, if you can, you moron:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/chinese-migration-south-china

    Back during early Tang, there is even a remote possibility that there were still a few Negritos around in the hills.

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West.
     
    Buddhism's journey from India to Japan took 1000 years, and you think that China was ever more diverse than the modern West?

    Not even when there were still Negritos in the hills, or headhunters on Taiwan. Maybe, when modern humans first fought against Denisovans in China, but China is so isolated that many Chinese scientists actually believe that the Chinese evolved in China, from Dragon Man.

    Germans aren’t your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American.
     
    No matter how many times you try, I will never let a sand-person dictate my sympathies or interests. Especially a braindead or heat-blasted one, like you.

    Here's something for you to ponder: suppose that I was always motivated by a very circumscribed sense of family and blood. Can't I be 100% Irish and still have connections to other places? For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

    And even putting that aside, mightn't I actually be able to trace a tiny bit of my own genealogy back to people with surviving tombs in England, France, and Germany?

    And that is just in a very narrow, constrained and cynical view, but you are a sightless fool, incapable of even glimpsing through a keyhole, when someone holds your face to it.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

  250. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts


    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again
     
    It doesn't really matter whose "lines" die out - first of all, lines don't die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.

    "You" are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born...a black, or a Jew :)

    In fact, I suspect, am even quite certain, that a majority of people on this forum will have to be born Black or Jewish, in the next incarnation :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.

    So it’s okay if our bloodlines become extinct and our offspring walk the Earth no longer.

    The material world and even our own bodies are unimportant.

    We shall leave it all to the Chosen Ones.

    The best among us will be absorbed.

    There’s really nothing to worry about.

    Thanks for enlightening us !

    (You go here: https://www.unz.com/article/lev-gumilev-and-the-khazar-chimera/)

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, it's perfectly OK. I could care less if my "bloodlines" - whatever they are - get absorbed into the common human mass. Quite happy for that to happen. I am not my body - in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as? Perhaps a snail :) I'd like to be a cat, for the sheer fun of it, but I doubt I get to choose - most likely, I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson, perhaps I will even need to be a dreary White Nationalist, to understand certain things - or maybe just because the Great Spirit has a macabre sense of humor :)

    There are better idols to worship, Bashi. But best is not to worship idols.

    Bashi, you are good, you have value, you have worth, you are valid - you don't need to derive your self-worth from these idols. You are loved, Bashi, by the Great Spirit. Indeed, you are Atman, you are the All, you need not cling to these fragments :)

    You are full, complete, and perfect, Bashi - if I could give you a hug over the internet, I would.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Bashi, do you sit up late at night and worry that your half-celtic offspring are only 50% as slavic as you are? And what about your future grandchildren, possibly only 25%? I see you embracing all of them with a great deal of affection, no matter what their genetic code reflects.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  251. @sudden death
    @Mikhail

    Some(?) Z-tards are pathetic ignoramuses and/or dishonest propagandons:


    Sieg Heil salute, is a gesture that was used as a greeting in Nazi Germany. The salute is performed by extending the right arm from the shoulder into the air with a straightened hand
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/50/Hitler_1929_crop.jpg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_salute

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Зигу кидать можно по разному.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    https://preview.redd.it/heil-putin-v0-lei3l2wl4tj81.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5147fbfd3eefb40a8e45724c83a4f3ae1f117a93

  252. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.
     
    So it's okay if our bloodlines become extinct and our offspring walk the Earth no longer.

    The material world and even our own bodies are unimportant.

    We shall leave it all to the Chosen Ones.

    The best among us will be absorbed.


    There's really nothing to worry about.

    Thanks for enlightening us !

    (You go here: https://www.unz.com/article/lev-gumilev-and-the-khazar-chimera/)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack

    Yes, it’s perfectly OK. I could care less if my “bloodlines” – whatever they are – get absorbed into the common human mass. Quite happy for that to happen. I am not my body – in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as? Perhaps a snail 🙂 I’d like to be a cat, for the sheer fun of it, but I doubt I get to choose – most likely, I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson, perhaps I will even need to be a dreary White Nationalist, to understand certain things – or maybe just because the Great Spirit has a macabre sense of humor 🙂

    There are better idols to worship, Bashi. But best is not to worship idols.

    Bashi, you are good, you have value, you have worth, you are valid – you don’t need to derive your self-worth from these idols. You are loved, Bashi, by the Great Spirit. Indeed, you are Atman, you are the All, you need not cling to these fragments 🙂

    You are full, complete, and perfect, Bashi – if I could give you a hug over the internet, I would.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    There are better idols to worship
     
    Know your ideas, yet?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I am not my body – in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as?
     
    I know: you will be reborn as a kosher lox bagel.

    🙃


    I could give you a hug over the internet
     
    Wow, wow, hold on there, I am not G
    gay, thanks, but no, thanks !

    🙂

    Now seriously: rebirth is not reincarnation. The flow of causality causes things to appear or disappear. But it is impossible to ever say that someone has truly come or someone has truly gone. That is why the Tathagata is not to be known by his bodily characteristics or said to be coming or going. When known that way, the Tathagata is recognized as the One thus come/gone.

    But you know that already (Madhyamaka, Prajnaparamita and all that...)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  253. @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    Зигу кидать можно по разному.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  254. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.
     
    So it's okay if our bloodlines become extinct and our offspring walk the Earth no longer.

    The material world and even our own bodies are unimportant.

    We shall leave it all to the Chosen Ones.

    The best among us will be absorbed.


    There's really nothing to worry about.

    Thanks for enlightening us !

    (You go here: https://www.unz.com/article/lev-gumilev-and-the-khazar-chimera/)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Mr. Hack

    Bashi, do you sit up late at night and worry that your half-celtic offspring are only 50% as slavic as you are? And what about your future grandchildren, possibly only 25%? I see you embracing all of them with a great deal of affection, no matter what their genetic code reflects.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    Hey Ivashka, if you haven't already, check out Yahya's very enlightening comment #253. What do you think, is he on to something here about diversity, etc.?

  255. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father's time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations. Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified "one size fits all" approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea.

    He was an intelligent person. If Ukrainian political circles would have headed his advice, there would have been no war.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AP

    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father’s time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.

    I disagree. Russia was the only Slavic state that became an Empire because it was the only one that bordered technologically backward and tribal peoples. Various Western European countries with access to such peoples via their ships also built great empires, and they had diverse governing systems – Britain, France, Spain, even the Netherlands and Portugal.

    Rzeczpospolita was in trouble because it was landlocked and surrounded. The Germans had a similar problem and despite being more numerous than Poles, their 2nd and 3rd Reichs didn’t last nearly as long as did PLC.

    Russian despotism was a product of a selection process within the Horde wherein the most loyal and collaborationist of the Rus princes monopolized power (with Tatar patronage) over those who were less loyal. This resulted in a Russian ruling class that was both close to the Tatars in terms of their political folkways and that had less loyalty to their own subjects and native traditions.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations

    Indeed. A federation of Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, and maybe liberation/restoration of Belarus would be a very good thing. Add Czechia and perhaps Slovakia.

    Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified “one size fits all” approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea

    Crimea and the Russian-populated parts of Donbas should have been expelled from the start. The rest of Ukraine – that had a solid Ukrainian majority in each region – could have been federated.

    If this had occurred from the beginning, Ukraine would have been in the EU and NATO and there would have been no war.

    A federation with parts populated by ethnic Russian majorities and loyal to Russia would have been a terrible thing for Ukraine (but good for Russia). It would have been a repetition of late-stage PLC where Russia used a few Russia-friendly magnates to paralyze the whole system for its own purposes.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @AP


    Rzeczpospolita was in trouble because it was landlocked
     
    "Landlocked"?? Perfectly encapsulates the lying idiocy of this fantasist retard.
  256. @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Bashi, do you sit up late at night and worry that your half-celtic offspring are only 50% as slavic as you are? And what about your future grandchildren, possibly only 25%? I see you embracing all of them with a great deal of affection, no matter what their genetic code reflects.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Hey Ivashka, if you haven’t already, check out Yahya’s very enlightening comment #253. What do you think, is he on to something here about diversity, etc.?

  257. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    The Neolithic Revolution had led to "human domestication", which is a narrowing of our total mental capabilities and a selection of some peculiar mental aptitudes (mathematical thinking is one of those). But it hasn't affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn't really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.

    Replies: @Yahya

    But it hasn’t affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn’t really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.

    “A burst of innovation followed the expansion of modern humans out of Africa. Signs of that change existed in Africa before the expansion, but the pattern became much stronger in Europe some 20,000 years later, after anatomically modern humans had encountered and displaced the Neanderthals. That transition to full behavioral modernity—as seen in the archaeological record—occurred patchily and finished later in other parts of Eurasia. We argue that even limited gene flow from Neanderthals (and perhaps other archaic humans) would have allowed anatomically modern humans to acquire most of their favorable alleles. We believe that this sudden influx of adaptive alleles contributed to the growth of the capabilities that made up the “human revolution,” and we believe that this introgression from archaic human populations will prove central to the story of modern human origins. So by 40,000 years ago, humans had become both anatomically and behaviorally modern (which is not to say they were exactly like people today). They had vastly greater powers of innovation than their ancestors, likely owing in part to genes stolen from their Neanderthal cousins. The speed of cultural change increased by tens of times, and when the glaciers retreated and new opportunities arose, it accelerated further.”

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Yahya

    Some more quotes:


    We intend to make the case that human evolution has accelerated in the past 10,000 years, rather than slowing or stopping, and is now happening about 100 times faster than its long-term average over the 6 million years of our existence. The pace has been so rapid that humans have changed significantly in body and mind over recorded history. Sargon and Imhotep1 were different from you genetically as well as culturally. This is a radical idea and hard to believe—it’s rather like trees growing noticeably as you watch. But as we will show in the following pages, the evidence is there.

    All this means that just as humans 40,000 years ago were significantly different from their ancestors 100,000 years ago (much more inventive, in particular), humans today are different in many ways from our ancestors of 40,000 BC, and, considering the accelerated rate of change, different from our ancestors of early historical times as well. We can empathize with the heroes of the Iliad (well, Odysseus at any rate)—but we’re not the same.

    ———

    The rate of change over the past few thousand years is far greater than this long-term rate over the past few million years, on the order of 100 times greater. If humans had always been evolving this rapidly, the genetic difference between us and chimpanzees would be far larger than it actually is.

    Again and again over the past few thousand years, a favorable mutation has occurred in some individual and spread widely, until a significant fraction of the human race now bears that mutated allele. Sometimes almost everyone in a large geographic region, such as Europe or East Asia, shares a trait that goes back to one such allele. The mutation can affect many different things—skin color, metabolism, defense against infectious disease, central nervous system features, and any number of other traits and functions.
     

    Replies: @AP, @Ivashka the fool

  258. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people
     
    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people...are you completely mental? Do you have even a very basic concept of how human rights work? There is also that pesky EU value of 'minorities protection'...Brussels is trying to look the other way, but it will come back as a big issue. Just stop supporting genocide, is that so hard?

    ...."Killed by Nato. You made my point. Plus Iraq, Libya, Syria…all done by Nato. Why is that ok with you?"

    And now you lie and claim that is “okay” by me.

     

    Do you understand that actions have consequences? Nato killed hundreds of thousands, attacked half a dozen countries in the last 25 years and you try to walk away from it. It doesn't work that way. If you don't understand it you could be a psychopath - a person who tries top compartmentalize his side's crimes into a silo and obsessively focuses only on the misdeeds by the other side. It is a dishonest and losing position. You own the Nato wars, bombings, etc...so do the Ukies, they worship Nato.

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your "5%" chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade. I would remind you that any security force in any self-respecting country (US? UK?) would take anything over 15-20% seriously - this was over 50% likely and they moved to stop it. Don't pretend that you don't understand.

    It is also obvious that with the war (Kiev will likely lose) the chance of Ukraine in Nato dropped dramatically - a small Galician Nato is not the same level threat. I will give one concession: it is, as these things often are, a chicken-and-egg situation: Russia with its concerns (paranoia?) and actions fed it from the other side. In their defense, they live there - the Washington and London neo-cons don't plan to...

    Replies: @AP

    “Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people”

    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people

    And now you dishonestly make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture and language on its territory and Germany and Turkey killing millions of Jews and Armenians.

    Would you also compare the language policies of France and the Baltics to the slaughter of Jews and Armenians?

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your “5%” chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade

    Like in 2008?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @AP

    The Nazi's real crime was not letting the Jews speak Yiddish as part of official instruction in government schools!

    , @Beckow
    @AP


    ...make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture
     
    No, the equivalence is with your statement "in accordance with the will of a majority of its people"...majority can't erase culture, language, or people. You have a reading comprehension problem.

    Like in 2008?...
     
    No, don't be dense - in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014. But you know that - you lost the argument so you escape into absurdity and strawmen...

    Replies: @AP

  259. @Yahya
    @songbird


    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

     

    Irrelevant. You said "Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern" as if to imply she's not really a Western women; which is mind-bogglingly stupid. Almost like saying African-Americans aren't black because they have "substantial" European ancestry.

    What would be the percentage of non-Han
     
    25-50%

    In light of this appreciation for cultural diversity, the Tang Dynasty saw the influx of thousands of foreigners who came to live in Chinese commercial hub cities such as Canton and Chang’an. Expatriates spilled in from all over Asia and beyond, with a bounty of people from Persia, Arabia, India, Korea, and Southeast and Central Asia. Chinese cities became bustling epicenters of commerce and trade, abundant in foreign residents and the plethora of cultural riches that they brought with them. Southern port cities such as Canton and Fuzhou swelled with foreigners as trade expanded in Southeast Asia and along the Chinese coast. A census taken in 742 CE showed that the foreign proportion of the registered population had massively increased from nearly a quarter in the early seventh century to nearly half by the mid seventh century, with an estimated 200,000 foreigners in residence in Canton alone.

    https://www.thecollector.com/tang-dynasty-golden-age-china/

     

    This is a piece of artwork from the Tang era:

    https://cdn.thecollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/li-zhaodao-emperor-xuanzong-tang-fleeing-11th-century.jpg?width=1400&quality=55

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West. You make the mistake of assuming diversity only exits in the modern West ("muh unparalleled invasion"). Once again, the presence of diversity is no impediment to cultural flourishing. You still haven't refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc. It doesn't mean all forms of migration is good; or that diversity is a necessary condition for cultural flourishing. But you are wrong to assume that diversity is an impediment to cultural flourishing. You are too ideologically racist anyway to accept this fact; there's no use in arguing with you.


    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth.
     
    That Roman culture hasn't survived doesn't have any bearing on its worthiness or sophistication. Every culture dies eventually. Are you going to tell me classical music isn't all that because it's become an almost extinct art form? Or that Ancient Egypt was small potatoes because it's culture "only" lasted 3,000 years?

    The Romans weren't as intellectually productive as the Greeks, not because of diversity; but because their deeply-rooted aversion to lexus (self-indulgence) and inertia (idleness). The Roman code, established during the Republic, demanded that Roman gentleman embody vigor and industriousness; which is antithical to the leisurely disposition needed to acquire knowledge. The Romans directed their intellectual efforts to administration and war-making; whereas Greeks put more attachment to scholarly and intellectual pursuits. Again, these are matters of cultural differences, not ethnic compositions.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people's imaginations long after it collapsed. Your founding fathers otherwise would not have modelled their constitution and public buildings on Roman laws and architecture.


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people.

     

    I call you a Nazi because of your bizarre obsession with Germany. TL wasn't even specifically talking about Germany when she stated that cultured and intelligent Iranians were desirable immigrants. But of course, you just had to shift the topic to Germany. Lol.

    Germans aren't your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American. You presuming to dictate which group of people in Germany should be deported; is like me telling Iranians they should deport the x and y group. I have never and would never presume to tell Iranians they should deport the Afghan refugees in their country; or go around calling them parasites and invaders. That would just be gawky and obnoxious; it's none of my business.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

    Roman writers were huge in Europe after the Renaissance, Horace, Virgil, Cicero, Tacitus, etc – Nietzsche even said they were more important than the Greeks in forming the European sensibility, although I don’t know if I agree with him.

    Horace is particularly good on the simple life in nature, needing little, enjoying a simple meal of beans and bacon, in some beautiful natural setting. Horace was hugely important to northern Europeans later on.

    When Patrick Leigh Fermor captured that German general on Crete in the war, the first thing they did was exchange lines of Horace 🙂

    But that’s when Europe had a culture, rooted in things of the Spirit.

  260. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    But it hasn’t affected our consciousness at its core and of course it hasn’t really changed our genetics. Simply because evolution is working on a longer timescale in higher mammals.
     
    https://www.amazon.com/000-Year-Explosion-Civilization-Accelerated-ebook/dp/B0042FZRPC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    “A burst of innovation followed the expansion of modern humans out of Africa. Signs of that change existed in Africa before the expansion, but the pattern became much stronger in Europe some 20,000 years later, after anatomically modern humans had encountered and displaced the Neanderthals. That transition to full behavioral modernity—as seen in the archaeological record—occurred patchily and finished later in other parts of Eurasia. We argue that even limited gene flow from Neanderthals (and perhaps other archaic humans) would have allowed anatomically modern humans to acquire most of their favorable alleles. We believe that this sudden influx of adaptive alleles contributed to the growth of the capabilities that made up the “human revolution,” and we believe that this introgression from archaic human populations will prove central to the story of modern human origins. So by 40,000 years ago, humans had become both anatomically and behaviorally modern (which is not to say they were exactly like people today). They had vastly greater powers of innovation than their ancestors, likely owing in part to genes stolen from their Neanderthal cousins. The speed of cultural change increased by tens of times, and when the glaciers retreated and new opportunities arose, it accelerated further.”

    Replies: @Yahya

    Some more quotes:

    We intend to make the case that human evolution has accelerated in the past 10,000 years, rather than slowing or stopping, and is now happening about 100 times faster than its long-term average over the 6 million years of our existence. The pace has been so rapid that humans have changed significantly in body and mind over recorded history. Sargon and Imhotep1 were different from you genetically as well as culturally. This is a radical idea and hard to believe—it’s rather like trees growing noticeably as you watch. But as we will show in the following pages, the evidence is there.

    All this means that just as humans 40,000 years ago were significantly different from their ancestors 100,000 years ago (much more inventive, in particular), humans today are different in many ways from our ancestors of 40,000 BC, and, considering the accelerated rate of change, different from our ancestors of early historical times as well. We can empathize with the heroes of the Iliad (well, Odysseus at any rate)—but we’re not the same.

    ———

    The rate of change over the past few thousand years is far greater than this long-term rate over the past few million years, on the order of 100 times greater. If humans had always been evolving this rapidly, the genetic difference between us and chimpanzees would be far larger than it actually is.

    Again and again over the past few thousand years, a favorable mutation has occurred in some individual and spread widely, until a significant fraction of the human race now bears that mutated allele. Sometimes almost everyone in a large geographic region, such as Europe or East Asia, shares a trait that goes back to one such allele. The mutation can affect many different things—skin color, metabolism, defense against infectious disease, central nervous system features, and any number of other traits and functions.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @AP
    @Yahya

    Thank you for writing a response that is similar to but better than I would have written.

    We bodies (including our brains) have not caught up to and adapted to the most modern technology but we are nowhere close to being adapted to life as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago. If there is a delay, it is that many of us are adapted to life in densely settled and ordered agricultural communities, and others for life in pre-industrial urban societies. Some as peasants or servants, others as managers, others as sophisticated traders and explorers, others as organisers of finances. We may be a century or two behind the technological curve, but no more than that.

    From this perspective, what is natural for us is not the life of a Stone Age tribesman but the life of a pre-industrial burgher or craftsman, of an artisan, of a country gentleman, perhaps a sailor, or of a family farmer in a community.

    Perhaps only those recently captured from the jungle might be adapted to life in that world of quick and commonplace violence.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    All right, let's get it sorted.

    1) Out of Africa expansion of the modern (Cro Magnon) humans is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as "we are family"). Many Chinese, and some Russian anthropologists do not agree with this hypothesis. We are indeed family, but we might have branched out before the period of the postulated out of Africa expansion (ca. - 40K years).

    2) Evolution is a) mutations, b) selection through environment for reproductive fitness in a given environment. The novel alleles arise only through mutation or recombination. The rate of recombination depends on chromosome similarity and biophysical features of the chromosomal DNA. The mutation rate is highly variable accross the chromosomes depending on their biophysical (mainly the degree of coiling) and biochemical features (methylation, which is also important in epigenetics). However, the mutation rate for a given base pair locus is nearly constant in the absence of a mutagen (chemical compounds interfering with DNA replication, oxidative stress, ionizing radiation). Only mutagens increase the rate of production of novel alleles.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through rvolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    4) During the colonization of Eurasia by the Cro Magnon, they mate and they mated with the other branches of the human species: Neanderthal and Denisovan people. This has indeed resulted in an admixture of up to max 4% of modern human Eurasian genome being of Neanderthal origin and up to max 6% of some South Eastern Asian populations being of Denisovan ancestry. The claims made by the authors that "all beneficial alleles" in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit. Why ? Because a) an allele is only beneficial in a given environment b) most our alleles are already beneficial and have been selected by the evolution even prior to the encounter with the other ancient human subspecies c) saying that all alleles acquired from the other ancient humans are always more beneficial is a complete nonsense (see points a) and b).

    5) The claim that the introgression and recombination of the Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA has somewhat accelerated our evolution is incompatible with the nature of the evolution, see point 2). The ancient DNA inherited from the other human subspecies can provide some novel alleles and contribute to novel possibilities of recombination, it might also influence somewhat the coiling of the DNA around the loci where it integrated. But it is not a mutagen. Therefore, overall the rate of mutations has probably stayed constant in our genomes. This can be proven easily by comparing the mutation rate per nucleotide between the populations that recombined after introgression and those who never mated with the other archaic humans. Do you really think that the mutation rate of Sub-Saharan Afeicans is lower than the rate of mutations of Eurasian populations ? That would be utter racism !

    6) If the mutations rate did not increase, then how can we explain the drastic change of phenotype in modern humans ? a) Possibly the out of Africa expansion of Cro Magnon is bogus and the different phenotypes had a much longer type to arise in different regions of Eurasia. b) The extremely stringent selection by the Ice Age and the ensuing megafauna (around 90% mortality) has selected for different cognitive and physical traits. A selection that the African populations did not undergo.

    7) The Neolithic Revolution has been possible due to these novel aptitudes selected by the major population bottlenecks described in 6). It was not the cause but the consequence.

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

  261. @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Well, I am glad you took my screed against the lazy, parasitic Western middle classes seriously :)...

    On second thought, given the risks to my steaks, I will reconsider and let them stay...could they in turn be nice enough to stay mostly home, watch their stupid tv and video games, and refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns? Also, leave the fat wives (of all genders) home...we need to get back to some semblance of civilization...

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns?

    I march around nature constantly and one thing never observed there is fat people.

    As for your picturesque old towns, perhaps you might maybe lobby with your local tourist board to discourage fat tourists? Those fat bus seats look like a juicy target. If nothing else works you could send them an anonymous message that if they don’t retire the buses it would be a real shame if something happened to them.

    Do your local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.

    On the other hand this probably is a subject you don’t want to get me started on. : )

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Too bad the Nazis can take credit for encouraging a better diet that some like the scumbag mentioned in this article might be following:

    https://www.rt.com/news/571536-massaro-azov-bandera-ukraine/

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    ...local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.
     
    Canary in a coal mine, indeed...

    In Bruges movie has a great scene w fat American tourists, lobbying won't help...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk__EJoInGA

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  262. @A123
    @QCIC


    Will you drop this theory when someone admits they bombed it?
     
    If the admission makes sense. The confessor would need:

    -- authority
    -- resources
    -- motive
    -- capabilities & competence

    Then answer key questions:

    -- Why this geography? (1)
     
    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/nord-292x300.jpg
     
    -- Why a 17 hour delay on pipe #3?
    -- Why leave pipe #4 undamaged?

     

    UR being a conspiracy site creates issues. It attracts commenters prone to leap to complex solution when more straightforward ones are available.

    • Did the event have overlap with politicians talking about a problem? Certainly.

    • Does that make those politicians the most likely explanation? No. That is a leap.

    • How competent are politicians? They are skilled enough to commission such a plan. The plan delivers a foul up. And, they talk so much they bring suspicion themselves.

    Ask these questions about the WUHAN-19 virus or NordStream. It is easy to see conspiracy explanations popping out that the woodwork that ultimately make little sense.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    Replies: @QCIC

    I’ll take this as a “No”. LOL.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC



    If the admission makes sense
     
    I’ll take this as a “No”. LOL.
     
    Are you confessing that no admission can make sense?

    Many thanks.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  263. @Yahya
    @songbird


    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

     

    Irrelevant. You said "Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern" as if to imply she's not really a Western women; which is mind-bogglingly stupid. Almost like saying African-Americans aren't black because they have "substantial" European ancestry.

    What would be the percentage of non-Han
     
    25-50%

    In light of this appreciation for cultural diversity, the Tang Dynasty saw the influx of thousands of foreigners who came to live in Chinese commercial hub cities such as Canton and Chang’an. Expatriates spilled in from all over Asia and beyond, with a bounty of people from Persia, Arabia, India, Korea, and Southeast and Central Asia. Chinese cities became bustling epicenters of commerce and trade, abundant in foreign residents and the plethora of cultural riches that they brought with them. Southern port cities such as Canton and Fuzhou swelled with foreigners as trade expanded in Southeast Asia and along the Chinese coast. A census taken in 742 CE showed that the foreign proportion of the registered population had massively increased from nearly a quarter in the early seventh century to nearly half by the mid seventh century, with an estimated 200,000 foreigners in residence in Canton alone.

    https://www.thecollector.com/tang-dynasty-golden-age-china/

     

    This is a piece of artwork from the Tang era:

    https://cdn.thecollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/li-zhaodao-emperor-xuanzong-tang-fleeing-11th-century.jpg?width=1400&quality=55

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West. You make the mistake of assuming diversity only exits in the modern West ("muh unparalleled invasion"). Once again, the presence of diversity is no impediment to cultural flourishing. You still haven't refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc. It doesn't mean all forms of migration is good; or that diversity is a necessary condition for cultural flourishing. But you are wrong to assume that diversity is an impediment to cultural flourishing. You are too ideologically racist anyway to accept this fact; there's no use in arguing with you.


    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth.
     
    That Roman culture hasn't survived doesn't have any bearing on its worthiness or sophistication. Every culture dies eventually. Are you going to tell me classical music isn't all that because it's become an almost extinct art form? Or that Ancient Egypt was small potatoes because it's culture "only" lasted 3,000 years?

    The Romans weren't as intellectually productive as the Greeks, not because of diversity; but because their deeply-rooted aversion to lexus (self-indulgence) and inertia (idleness). The Roman code, established during the Republic, demanded that Roman gentleman embody vigor and industriousness; which is antithical to the leisurely disposition needed to acquire knowledge. The Romans directed their intellectual efforts to administration and war-making; whereas Greeks put more attachment to scholarly and intellectual pursuits. Again, these are matters of cultural differences, not ethnic compositions.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people's imaginations long after it collapsed. Your founding fathers otherwise would not have modelled their constitution and public buildings on Roman laws and architecture.


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people.

     

    I call you a Nazi because of your bizarre obsession with Germany. TL wasn't even specifically talking about Germany when she stated that cultured and intelligent Iranians were desirable immigrants. But of course, you just had to shift the topic to Germany. Lol.

    Germans aren't your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American. You presuming to dictate which group of people in Germany should be deported; is like me telling Iranians they should deport the x and y group. I have never and would never presume to tell Iranians they should deport the Afghan refugees in their country; or go around calling them parasites and invaders. That would just be gawky and obnoxious; it's none of my business.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.

    The Roman empire is not over.

    It morphed into the Roman Catholic hegemony which was taken over by the Venetian and Florentine banking organizations which migrated to London Amsterdam Geneva (largely Jew) banks which is where we are today. Rome 4.0.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Republic of Venice and Papal Rome were enemies most of the time. Venice and Genoa were in many sense what Carthage once was - the merchant republic - and our "democratic" system of gov is a bit similar (in Poland, for examples, the president and the prime minister are a bit like two consuls or suffetes, since they competences overlap [President has right to propose laws to Sejm]), just with very special position of a supreme court.

    For the reason of Punic Wars, it would be hard to call Rome an incarnation of Carthage, with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..? We don't really know but names like Heliogabalus would point to that.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

  264. @S
    @LatW



    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country...America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.
     
    Yes, and sometimes what has to be 'paid' is far too high of a cost.

    I'm in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka 'immigrants') should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called 'progressives', AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death, @AP, @Leaves No Shadow

    I’m in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka ‘immigrants’) should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin

    In which case this country would have been minority-European by now, not only because those non-Anglos add to the USA’s European population but also because Anglos the world over are voting to replace themselves in their own countries – Britain, Canada, Australia. The WASPs in the USA are strongly in favor of it. Left to their own devices, people like you end themselves. You need us to save you.

    It’s also amusing that you do not even know your own native language properly.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called ‘progressives’, AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    Please keep me out of your stupid nonsensical fantasies.

    I have no use for “progressives.” You seem to be in rebellion against your own elites which would make you a progressive, who doesn’t know his place. Or perhaps, you are from the backcountry, in which case your anti-elitism is more legitimate and traditional, but in opposition to traditions other than your own.

  265. @QCIC
    @A123

    I'll take this as a "No". LOL.

    Replies: @A123

    If the admission makes sense

    I’ll take this as a “No”. LOL.

    Are you confessing that no admission can make sense?

    Many thanks.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    No, but I agree these things should be thought through carefully and none of the powers that be can be trusted.

    I give the probabilities as:

    95 % blatant sabotage by the West and friends
    3 % Russia did it to cut loose Germany without looking bad or making payoffs
    2 % some accident as you suggest

    Replies: @A123

  266. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts


    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again
     
    It doesn't really matter whose "lines" die out - first of all, lines don't die out, they get absorbed, but secondly, the most basic spiritual mistake you can make is to identify with the physical body.

    "You" are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born...a black, or a Jew :)

    In fact, I suspect, am even quite certain, that a majority of people on this forum will have to be born Black or Jewish, in the next incarnation :)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed…

    I was thinking of lines of descent here, e.g. if I had no children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.

    “You” are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew.

    But reincarnation has to be true for this to be the case. I’m possibly still too influenced by regressive Scholastic philosophy to think a full person can exist without their physical body.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    Ah, I see, yes, if you don't have kids your particular lines won't continue, even if your distant descendents end up being black or Chinese.

    I can understand why someone might care about this, depending on ones metaphysics, if one identifies with this particular ball of matter in space one calls ones individual body. Only, spiritually, this is problematic.

    I'm not even sure I believe in reincarnation - I like to toy with the idea, and I think it gets at something.

    Paul did say, however, that there is no place for flesh and blood in the world to come, so in Christian tradition, whatever body you might have, it will be most unlike your current one.

    But the real idea, for me, isn't that you're not your body - I don't believe in any hard division between matter and spirit. If anything, I believe matter is a manifestation of spirit.

    Rather, it's that you are not only, or just, your physical body - you are everything, everyone else's body too, and every tree, animal, and plant. Identifying with "just" this body is the problem. You are connected to the All as it manifests in bodies.

    I think this squares with Christian metaphysics at its best, especially early on - not sure what the later scholastics got up to, but I'd probably object to much of their stuff.

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  267. @Yahya
    @S


    Yahoo, or, Yahya rather, are site trolls and sell outs.
     
    Your "insults" are even lamer and more timid than songbird. I wish silviosilver would come back so I can have a proper sparring partner. You are too much of a wimp to even address your insult directly to my person. Just typically feminine passive-aggressiveness.

    Since you've taken to declaring all migrants, including most recently Slavic untermensch, as grifters, parasites etc. I wonder if you could enlighten us with your own non-migrant, indigenous background. You've been curiously circumspect about your ancestry. But please do tell us about your ancient American indigenous lineage, and how none of your ancestors migrated from one place to another to improve their standard of living. And that they've never participated in the genocidal erasure of a certain other group's culture during their conquest of the New World.

    Replies: @Max Payne

    Don’t take it personal. LOL, “sell outs”. That’s cute.

    As lame as Karlin has turned out to be I can totally understand why he opted out of this place. Too many soyboys and their “muh white genocide” nonsense (basically 90% of S’s comments).

    S is your typical middle to late aged white guy who doesn’t realize 30% of the users on Unz.com are Indian (or so I suspect). The vast majority of the other goyim come from Anglin and Sailer with their own socially awkward and highly disconnected-from-reality bubble.

    The same type of people who probably never touched a computer in their entire lives until Apple put an over glorified, overpriced, under performing Fisher Price calculator in their hands (and then they complain about ‘muh censorship’). Totally high IQ bruh.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Max Payne


    Too many soyboys and their “muh white genocide” nonsense (basically 90% of S’s comments).
     
    Perfect description of S's comments.

    Him and songbird can be succinctly described as "whiny white nationalists"

    It's a type I had not previously been aware existed.

    But evidently there are impotent nerds out there who seek solace in their racial identity.

    I'm not sure 'S' is middle-aged. Him and songbird come across as young 20s.

    I sometimes feel sorry for insulting 'S'; since he is so meek and passive.

    But he insists on trying to 'insult' me for daring to disagree with his ideological views.

    Songbird isn't as thin-skinned or ideological; but is simply a repellent racist; thus deserving of every insult.

    Replies: @Max Payne

  268. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed...
     
    I was thinking of lines of descent here, e.g. if I had no children my line of descent wouldn't continue.

    “You” are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew.
     
    But reincarnation has to be true for this to be the case. I'm possibly still too influenced by regressive Scholastic philosophy to think a full person can exist without their physical body.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Dmitry

    Ah, I see, yes, if you don’t have kids your particular lines won’t continue, even if your distant descendents end up being black or Chinese.

    I can understand why someone might care about this, depending on ones metaphysics, if one identifies with this particular ball of matter in space one calls ones individual body. Only, spiritually, this is problematic.

    I’m not even sure I believe in reincarnation – I like to toy with the idea, and I think it gets at something.

    Paul did say, however, that there is no place for flesh and blood in the world to come, so in Christian tradition, whatever body you might have, it will be most unlike your current one.

    But the real idea, for me, isn’t that you’re not your body – I don’t believe in any hard division between matter and spirit. If anything, I believe matter is a manifestation of spirit.

    Rather, it’s that you are not only, or just, your physical body – you are everything, everyone else’s body too, and every tree, animal, and plant. Identifying with “just” this body is the problem. You are connected to the All as it manifests in bodies.

    I think this squares with Christian metaphysics at its best, especially early on – not sure what the later scholastics got up to, but I’d probably object to much of their stuff.

  269. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya


    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.
     
    The Roman empire is not over.

    It morphed into the Roman Catholic hegemony which was taken over by the Venetian and Florentine banking organizations which migrated to London Amsterdam Geneva (largely Jew) banks which is where we are today. Rome 4.0.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    The Republic of Venice and Papal Rome were enemies most of the time. Venice and Genoa were in many sense what Carthage once was – the merchant republic – and our “democratic” system of gov is a bit similar (in Poland, for examples, the president and the prime minister are a bit like two consuls or suffetes, since they competences overlap [President has right to propose laws to Sejm]), just with very special position of a supreme court.

    For the reason of Punic Wars, it would be hard to call Rome an incarnation of Carthage, with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..? We don’t really know but names like Heliogabalus would point to that.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..
     
    Septimius Severus was half-Punic, half-Italian. He spoke the local Punic language fluently, but was also well-versed in Latin and Greek; as had been customary for people of his social position in these days. Culturally, he was socialized among the elite Punic milieu; and people considered him to be the first provincial Emperor since his father had been of Punic origin. Apparently not much emphasis was placed on his mother’s Italian aristocratic background. Septimius later married Julia Domna, an Arab of Syrian origin; so his descendants were only a quarter or less Punic by blood.

    Heliogabalus was of full Arab ethnicity. His family came from modern day Homs in Syria. His original name in Arabic is surprisingly recognizable to me: إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ or “Lord Of The Mountain” (based).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    So it is Carthage 3.0 I would say. In London there is even a favourite symbol of Hannibal - war elephant - commemorated as the station "Elephant & Castle" [castle is this structure built on elephant to fight from it]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_%26_Castle_tube_station

    Accordingly, Roman Catholics aka Papists were hated for a long time in Carthaginian UK.

    The Square Mile aka City is like Byrsa in proper Carthage - the holy center of power ;) Of course, there is also an aristocratic component in UK - but its king cannot enter The City without an invitation of its Lord Major.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  270. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Republic of Venice and Papal Rome were enemies most of the time. Venice and Genoa were in many sense what Carthage once was - the merchant republic - and our "democratic" system of gov is a bit similar (in Poland, for examples, the president and the prime minister are a bit like two consuls or suffetes, since they competences overlap [President has right to propose laws to Sejm]), just with very special position of a supreme court.

    For the reason of Punic Wars, it would be hard to call Rome an incarnation of Carthage, with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..? We don't really know but names like Heliogabalus would point to that.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

    with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..

    Septimius Severus was half-Punic, half-Italian. He spoke the local Punic language fluently, but was also well-versed in Latin and Greek; as had been customary for people of his social position in these days. Culturally, he was socialized among the elite Punic milieu; and people considered him to be the first provincial Emperor since his father had been of Punic origin. Apparently not much emphasis was placed on his mother’s Italian aristocratic background. Septimius later married Julia Domna, an Arab of Syrian origin; so his descendants were only a quarter or less Punic by blood.

    Heliogabalus was of full Arab ethnicity. His family came from modern day Homs in Syria. His original name in Arabic is surprisingly recognizable to me: إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ or “Lord Of The Mountain” (based).

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya


    Heliogabalus was of full Arab ethnicity. His family came from modern day Homs in Syria.
     
    Maybe. If so, he and Julia Domna would have probably come from some rich merchants family, like Zenobia, the queen of Palmyra, or like Quraishites from Mekka. Such a family a rich Punic aristocrat could marry...
    Domna allegedly came from Edessa family of priest-kings, a title which is very Phoenician. Maybe they were mixed Phoenicians-Arabs in the way Herodians were mixed Arabs[Idumeans]-Jews.
  271. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The Republic of Venice and Papal Rome were enemies most of the time. Venice and Genoa were in many sense what Carthage once was - the merchant republic - and our "democratic" system of gov is a bit similar (in Poland, for examples, the president and the prime minister are a bit like two consuls or suffetes, since they competences overlap [President has right to propose laws to Sejm]), just with very special position of a supreme court.

    For the reason of Punic Wars, it would be hard to call Rome an incarnation of Carthage, with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..? We don't really know but names like Heliogabalus would point to that.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

    So it is Carthage 3.0 I would say. In London there is even a favourite symbol of Hannibal – war elephant – commemorated as the station “Elephant & Castle” [castle is this structure built on elephant to fight from it]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_%26_Castle_tube_station

    Accordingly, Roman Catholics aka Papists were hated for a long time in Carthaginian UK.

    The Square Mile aka City is like Byrsa in proper Carthage – the holy center of power 😉 Of course, there is also an aristocratic component in UK – but its king cannot enter The City without an invitation of its Lord Major.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    The new statue of Ruth Bader Ginsberg is Phonecian as Baal. It was sculpted by an exotic ethnic I don't offhand recall which.

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/01/28/multimedia/24courtsculpture7-bkcf/24courtsculpture7-bkcf-superJumbo.jpg

    Replies: @Yahya, @Barbarossa

  272. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective


    with the exception of reign of some apparently Phoenician emperors like Heliogabalus or Severan dynasty whose founder was born in the formerly Carthaginian city, Leptis Magna. Was he Punic..
     
    Septimius Severus was half-Punic, half-Italian. He spoke the local Punic language fluently, but was also well-versed in Latin and Greek; as had been customary for people of his social position in these days. Culturally, he was socialized among the elite Punic milieu; and people considered him to be the first provincial Emperor since his father had been of Punic origin. Apparently not much emphasis was placed on his mother’s Italian aristocratic background. Septimius later married Julia Domna, an Arab of Syrian origin; so his descendants were only a quarter or less Punic by blood.

    Heliogabalus was of full Arab ethnicity. His family came from modern day Homs in Syria. His original name in Arabic is surprisingly recognizable to me: إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ or “Lord Of The Mountain” (based).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Heliogabalus was of full Arab ethnicity. His family came from modern day Homs in Syria.

    Maybe. If so, he and Julia Domna would have probably come from some rich merchants family, like Zenobia, the queen of Palmyra, or like Quraishites from Mekka. Such a family a rich Punic aristocrat could marry…
    Domna allegedly came from Edessa family of priest-kings, a title which is very Phoenician. Maybe they were mixed Phoenicians-Arabs in the way Herodians were mixed Arabs[Idumeans]-Jews.

  273. إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ

    or “Lord Of The Mountain” (based).

    Also he was Queer, a sacred male prostitute to the Bethil stone his family worshiped for generations.

    Disgusted with his degenerate ways, Romans got rid of him.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    Disgusted with his degenerate ways, Romans got rid of him.
     
    His grandmother Julia Mæsa had orchestrated beforehand to have his cousin Severus Alexander appointed Caesar and heir to the throne; so that power stays within the family. She had the foresight to grasp that Elagbulus would eventually be deposed due to his licentious ways. Maesa was also responsible for deposing Macrinus who had usurped the throne following Caracalla's death. A very shrewd lady. Someone ought to make a TV show about her.

    Her sister Julia Domna was also quite the character. Edward Gibbon describes her as possessing beauty, even in advanced age; a strength of judgement; and an extensive education in philosophy and letters. She administered the empire during her son's youth; and was patron of the arts. She was also resepcted among Romans for accompanying her husband during his campaigns; something other Empresses' rarely did. But eventually she committed suicide following her son's assassination.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Julia_Domna_Glyptothek_Munich_354.jpg/1280px-Julia_Domna_Glyptothek_Munich_354.jpg

    Zenobia was likewise another prominent Syrian lady of Arab origin. Something about the soil that turns out these shrewd Arab female rulers.

  274. @Yahya
    @Yahya

    Some more quotes:


    We intend to make the case that human evolution has accelerated in the past 10,000 years, rather than slowing or stopping, and is now happening about 100 times faster than its long-term average over the 6 million years of our existence. The pace has been so rapid that humans have changed significantly in body and mind over recorded history. Sargon and Imhotep1 were different from you genetically as well as culturally. This is a radical idea and hard to believe—it’s rather like trees growing noticeably as you watch. But as we will show in the following pages, the evidence is there.

    All this means that just as humans 40,000 years ago were significantly different from their ancestors 100,000 years ago (much more inventive, in particular), humans today are different in many ways from our ancestors of 40,000 BC, and, considering the accelerated rate of change, different from our ancestors of early historical times as well. We can empathize with the heroes of the Iliad (well, Odysseus at any rate)—but we’re not the same.

    ———

    The rate of change over the past few thousand years is far greater than this long-term rate over the past few million years, on the order of 100 times greater. If humans had always been evolving this rapidly, the genetic difference between us and chimpanzees would be far larger than it actually is.

    Again and again over the past few thousand years, a favorable mutation has occurred in some individual and spread widely, until a significant fraction of the human race now bears that mutated allele. Sometimes almost everyone in a large geographic region, such as Europe or East Asia, shares a trait that goes back to one such allele. The mutation can affect many different things—skin color, metabolism, defense against infectious disease, central nervous system features, and any number of other traits and functions.
     

    Replies: @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    Thank you for writing a response that is similar to but better than I would have written.

    We bodies (including our brains) have not caught up to and adapted to the most modern technology but we are nowhere close to being adapted to life as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago. If there is a delay, it is that many of us are adapted to life in densely settled and ordered agricultural communities, and others for life in pre-industrial urban societies. Some as peasants or servants, others as managers, others as sophisticated traders and explorers, others as organisers of finances. We may be a century or two behind the technological curve, but no more than that.

    From this perspective, what is natural for us is not the life of a Stone Age tribesman but the life of a pre-industrial burgher or craftsman, of an artisan, of a country gentleman, perhaps a sailor, or of a family farmer in a community.

    Perhaps only those recently captured from the jungle might be adapted to life in that world of quick and commonplace violence.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I agree that most of us would need a hard training to adapt to a Paleolithic environment, but this has nothing to do with natural (Darwinian) evolution.

    It is the result of human "self-domestication" and stringent social selection coupled with a great many population bottlenecks. I have mentioned "self-domestication" when I wrote about the Neolithic Revolution. I don't have sufficient time right now, but I will write a detailed answer to Yahya later. Until then FYI and food for thought:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mutation-1127

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2016.104

    A shih tzu is not an evolved wolf.

    Replies: @AP

  275. @Max Payne
    @Yahya

    Don't take it personal. LOL, "sell outs". That's cute.

    As lame as Karlin has turned out to be I can totally understand why he opted out of this place. Too many soyboys and their "muh white genocide" nonsense (basically 90% of S's comments).

    S is your typical middle to late aged white guy who doesn't realize 30% of the users on Unz.com are Indian (or so I suspect). The vast majority of the other goyim come from Anglin and Sailer with their own socially awkward and highly disconnected-from-reality bubble.

    The same type of people who probably never touched a computer in their entire lives until Apple put an over glorified, overpriced, under performing Fisher Price calculator in their hands (and then they complain about 'muh censorship'). Totally high IQ bruh.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Too many soyboys and their “muh white genocide” nonsense (basically 90% of S’s comments).

    Perfect description of S’s comments.

    Him and songbird can be succinctly described as “whiny white nationalists”

    It’s a type I had not previously been aware existed.

    But evidently there are impotent nerds out there who seek solace in their racial identity.

    I’m not sure ‘S’ is middle-aged. Him and songbird come across as young 20s.

    I sometimes feel sorry for insulting ‘S’; since he is so meek and passive.

    But he insists on trying to ‘insult’ me for daring to disagree with his ideological views.

    Songbird isn’t as thin-skinned or ideological; but is simply a repellent racist; thus deserving of every insult.

    • Replies: @Max Payne
    @Yahya


    But evidently there are impotent nerds out there who seek solace in their racial identity.
     
    Bigots are bigots.

    A sexist evolves into a racist once he gets laid.
    A racist evolves into a nationalist once he has friends.
    A nationalist.... well you get the idea.

    It's a pattern. I don't know why.


    There is no way S's is in his 20s. No one quotes 60s media that frequently in their 20s. Not these zoomers.
  276. @AP
    @Yahya

    Thank you for writing a response that is similar to but better than I would have written.

    We bodies (including our brains) have not caught up to and adapted to the most modern technology but we are nowhere close to being adapted to life as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago. If there is a delay, it is that many of us are adapted to life in densely settled and ordered agricultural communities, and others for life in pre-industrial urban societies. Some as peasants or servants, others as managers, others as sophisticated traders and explorers, others as organisers of finances. We may be a century or two behind the technological curve, but no more than that.

    From this perspective, what is natural for us is not the life of a Stone Age tribesman but the life of a pre-industrial burgher or craftsman, of an artisan, of a country gentleman, perhaps a sailor, or of a family farmer in a community.

    Perhaps only those recently captured from the jungle might be adapted to life in that world of quick and commonplace violence.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I agree that most of us would need a hard training to adapt to a Paleolithic environment, but this has nothing to do with natural (Darwinian) evolution.

    It is the result of human “self-domestication” and stringent social selection coupled with a great many population bottlenecks. I have mentioned “self-domestication” when I wrote about the Neolithic Revolution. I don’t have sufficient time right now, but I will write a detailed answer to Yahya later. Until then FYI and food for thought:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mutation-1127

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2016.104

    A shih tzu is not an evolved wolf.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    I agree with everything until the comparison to the shih tzu.

    A shi tzu lives in far simpler circumstances than does a wolf. But since domesticating themselves, people have had to live in far more complex circumstances than have their Stone Age predecessors. They may have lost some skills and instincts necessary for that kind of life but have gained far more. Think of a farmer needing to manage crops and livestock and the technology to maintain them, engage in some trade (selling and buying on market days), plus navigating hundreds of interpersonal relationships in a usually nonviolent way. Versus a hunter gatherer whose social contacts are a couple dozen at most, whose knowledge is of a more animalian nature (hunting and tracking, where one can find berries and grains at what time of year), killing or avoiding getting killed by the neighbouring small band of savages.

    And we are not even discussing the explorers, theologians, thinkers, lords and financiers from among the civilised peoples. Compare them to primitive chieftains and witch doctors. And not through the lense of some Romantic weirdo.

    When civilised people encountered primitive tribesmen they did not think the them as wise, clever or in any way superior (that is a silly idea later Romantic people invented) but as dim and crude people who at best had some cunning and a better knowledge of their immediate environment.

    It is possible, however, that eventually technology may do everything for us and our descendants will become some sort of Eloi or shih tzus.

  277. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    I agree that most of us would need a hard training to adapt to a Paleolithic environment, but this has nothing to do with natural (Darwinian) evolution.

    It is the result of human "self-domestication" and stringent social selection coupled with a great many population bottlenecks. I have mentioned "self-domestication" when I wrote about the Neolithic Revolution. I don't have sufficient time right now, but I will write a detailed answer to Yahya later. Until then FYI and food for thought:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mutation-1127

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2016.104

    A shih tzu is not an evolved wolf.

    Replies: @AP

    I agree with everything until the comparison to the shih tzu.

    A shi tzu lives in far simpler circumstances than does a wolf. But since domesticating themselves, people have had to live in far more complex circumstances than have their Stone Age predecessors. They may have lost some skills and instincts necessary for that kind of life but have gained far more. Think of a farmer needing to manage crops and livestock and the technology to maintain them, engage in some trade (selling and buying on market days), plus navigating hundreds of interpersonal relationships in a usually nonviolent way. Versus a hunter gatherer whose social contacts are a couple dozen at most, whose knowledge is of a more animalian nature (hunting and tracking, where one can find berries and grains at what time of year), killing or avoiding getting killed by the neighbouring small band of savages.

    And we are not even discussing the explorers, theologians, thinkers, lords and financiers from among the civilised peoples. Compare them to primitive chieftains and witch doctors. And not through the lense of some Romantic weirdo.

    When civilised people encountered primitive tribesmen they did not think the them as wise, clever or in any way superior (that is a silly idea later Romantic people invented) but as dim and crude people who at best had some cunning and a better knowledge of their immediate environment.

    It is possible, however, that eventually technology may do everything for us and our descendants will become some sort of Eloi or shih tzus.

    • Disagree: Sher Singh
  278. @Ivashka the fool
    إِلٰهُ الْجَبَلِ

    or “Lord Of The Mountain” (based).
     
    Also he was Queer, a sacred male prostitute to the Bethil stone his family worshiped for generations.

    https://i.etsystatic.com/15350345/r/il/60fed6/2481305648/il_794xN.2481305648_e2wh.jpg

    Disgusted with his degenerate ways, Romans got rid of him.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Disgusted with his degenerate ways, Romans got rid of him.

    His grandmother Julia Mæsa had orchestrated beforehand to have his cousin Severus Alexander appointed Caesar and heir to the throne; so that power stays within the family. She had the foresight to grasp that Elagbulus would eventually be deposed due to his licentious ways. Maesa was also responsible for deposing Macrinus who had usurped the throne following Caracalla’s death. A very shrewd lady. Someone ought to make a TV show about her.

    Her sister Julia Domna was also quite the character. Edward Gibbon describes her as possessing beauty, even in advanced age; a strength of judgement; and an extensive education in philosophy and letters. She administered the empire during her son’s youth; and was patron of the arts. She was also resepcted among Romans for accompanying her husband during his campaigns; something other Empresses’ rarely did. But eventually she committed suicide following her son’s assassination.

    Zenobia was likewise another prominent Syrian lady of Arab origin. Something about the soil that turns out these shrewd Arab female rulers.

  279. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, it's perfectly OK. I could care less if my "bloodlines" - whatever they are - get absorbed into the common human mass. Quite happy for that to happen. I am not my body - in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as? Perhaps a snail :) I'd like to be a cat, for the sheer fun of it, but I doubt I get to choose - most likely, I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson, perhaps I will even need to be a dreary White Nationalist, to understand certain things - or maybe just because the Great Spirit has a macabre sense of humor :)

    There are better idols to worship, Bashi. But best is not to worship idols.

    Bashi, you are good, you have value, you have worth, you are valid - you don't need to derive your self-worth from these idols. You are loved, Bashi, by the Great Spirit. Indeed, you are Atman, you are the All, you need not cling to these fragments :)

    You are full, complete, and perfect, Bashi - if I could give you a hug over the internet, I would.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    There are better idols to worship

    Know your ideas, yet?

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, I'd define an idol as some finite physical object, that one turns to in order to satisfy ones hunger for the Infinite.

    It never works, however, some get you closer to the infinite than others.

    Nations, as spiritual entities, aren't the worst idols one can have - but in the physical genetic sense, they are quite remote from the infinite.

    There is a reason nationalists who focus on the physical genetic aspect palpably ooze discontent and unhappiness - their chosen idol is giving them very, very little of the infinite they are really craving. It's like trying to get sweet nectar out of a rock.

    But nations in the physical sense are purely a modern idea. A step up, is nation as a spiritual entity, as a community of people with a common sense of spiritual destiny and a common spiritual practice oriented around the Infinite. This is an older idea, and has always had some of the Infinite in it, though I'd argue that this too must be left behind if one truly wants to approach the infinite.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  280. @AP
    @Beckow


    “Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people”

    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people
     
    And now you dishonestly make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture and language on its territory and Germany and Turkey killing millions of Jews and Armenians.

    Would you also compare the language policies of France and the Baltics to the slaughter of Jews and Armenians?

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your “5%” chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade

     

    Like in 2008?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Beckow

    The Nazi’s real crime was not letting the Jews speak Yiddish as part of official instruction in government schools!

  281. @S
    @LatW



    Outside of Ukraine (where he [AP] seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he [AP] has a right to his [selective weaponized Progressive Multi-Culturalism, for everyone else, yes, for me and mine, no] ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country...America has to pay [and pay, and pay, and pay some more] for everyone she takes in that way.
     
    Yes, and sometimes what has to be 'paid' is far too high of a cost.

    I'm in full agreement with Kevin MacDonald that at the time the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed the imported by diktat East European wage slaves (aka 'immigrants') should of been deported en masse back to their countries of origin.

    With some noble exceptions, they would seem to be a bunch of narcissistic, self-centered, arrogant, shameless, grifters, willing tools of the so called 'progressives', AP being a prime example of the type whose own words condemn him.

    The other Anglosphere countries should of done the very same thing.

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death, @AP, @Leaves No Shadow

    Kevin MacDonald is someone for whom the Jungian archetype of “the innocent” is synonymous with whites, “the magician” with Jews, and “the bad king” and “the vampire” as mostly white elites though sometimes also Jewish.

    Of course, each and every single one of these is projection of his own deeply narcissistic worldview, as I have literally described narcissism in conventionally Jungian terms*, but it is astonishing how well these archetypes fit his work.

    The reality that he thinks the Jews warp is only his own magician warping his.

    Does this mean he is actually narcisistic in his own life? No, in fact it could mean he is a co-dependent type who hides this co-dependent personality from himself via performances of masculinity. It would also make him extremely sucseptible to persuasion by obviously narcisistic bombastic types exactly like Ritter and MacGregor. Furthermore, he would likely be drawn to women, or men, who were that type, and this would confirm, if heterosexual, his misogynistic view of women, by a selection effect operating on his own experience, and if a quiet homosexual, it would likely be an aspect of his fantasies. And honestly, he could end up doing both.

    * https://psychcentral.com/pro/recovery-expert/2018/09/narcissism-explained-jungian-theory#11

    • Troll: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    are you saying a narcissistic man is more likely to be attracted to a narcissistic and bombastic woman? I would say the opposite, if anything

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  282. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns?
     
    I march around nature constantly and one thing never observed there is fat people.

    As for your picturesque old towns, perhaps you might maybe lobby with your local tourist board to discourage fat tourists? Those fat bus seats look like a juicy target. If nothing else works you could send them an anonymous message that if they don't retire the buses it would be a real shame if something happened to them.

    Do your local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.

    On the other hand this probably is a subject you don't want to get me started on. : )

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/R4096E/large-heavy-woman-shopper-on-in-store-use-only-electric-shopping-scooter-R4096E.jpg

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Beckow

    Too bad the Nazis can take credit for encouraging a better diet that some like the scumbag mentioned in this article might be following:

    https://www.rt.com/news/571536-massaro-azov-bandera-ukraine/

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Mikhail

    Do your friends know that you read RT?

    Mine most certainly do not!

  283. @LatW
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP
     
    I took a long time "categorizing" him, too, but I was able to finally (he's rather complex, with a mix of ideas and predispositions that are not always consistent or immediately visible to non-Anglos, but in the US it is possible to be that way).

    Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.
     
    Yes, that is problematic, but he has a right to his ideology and outlook, this may be what happens when you have an immigrant country (at home he would be more balanced, and, btw, there is nothing wrong with Poland-Galician integrationalism at all). America has to pay for everyone she takes in that way. So far America has been strong... but at this point America's burden is not light. It attests to America's strength.

    but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you.
     
    Not fully, but there is a rather significant overlap. I won't dissect him because, in this particular time and space, he's a friendly. Besides, the "endpoint", as you say, will not be something that either he, nor I, nor you will decide on our own, most likely. It will be a larger collective of people. We can only contribute our energy and hopes.

    Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries

     

    There are such systems in the Intermarium, but they are not ideal. These things need to be constantly managed. Elites and the military, as well as the police, need to be held to high standards but also have respect. The civic society needs to be free but similarly as the state institutions, needs to be held to a high accountability.

    And even tough and rigorous bureaucracy. A bureaucrat gets to approve somebody's asylum or immigration application - you don't want to leave that decision to be based on their mood or what they had for lunch, but based on intelligence, a strong patriotic conviction and, ideally, the interests of the nation (hopefully, in a way that you and I understand it). All of these components need to be in place. Ideology is important, even if it is not voiced in words and political documents, but in other symbols and gestures that everyone understands without saying.

    We used to have a totalitarian society where others took care of this. But when one has freedom, the most valuable gift, one has to have self-discipline. The classical Greek culture teaches us to question things the way Socrates did, the Socratic method is still useful - when someone proposes something for your state and nation, question it. Ask simple questions - "Is this needed?", "Why?", "How is this good for the children?". Do not just accept it. Question it just for the sake of it.. question it openly. :)


    It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four.
     
    No need to exaggerate, just have a normal, strict common sense approach. That's why formalities are a good thing to have, as I said, but they are not the most important. A nation, a tribe, a family, a family of similar peoples, needs to be able to stand without a state (most nations in history have been that way). But a strong state and an ideology is still important, to have more than one layer of protection. A nation is like a warrior and a strong, nationalist state is like a shield.

    There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors
     
    Our neighbors are static and have been static for millennia or for hundreds of years. I guess we are lucky that way. But the EU neighbors, in the future, will need a discussion. We go back to Socrates, we question, instead of just accepting things as a given.

    You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.
     
    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don't agree that "they" can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume. They know how important it is, they are careful, that's why they have had a "soft" approach. More dangerous for us that way, actually. You know how you walk during a blizzard on a snowed in path, really freezing? When you reach the limit of your strength you fall down comfortably in the snow and start falling asleep.. they say it's the most pleasant feeling. It's the feeling right before you die and they teach you to fight that pleasant sleep, to bring yourself out of it, to keep yourself alert.

    Replies: @S, @songbird

    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don’t agree that “they” can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume.

    Of course, in the purest spiritual sense, you are correct. But I fear that you are also wrong, if only in a narrow materialist sense, which however is not unimportant, and which ultimately does connect and interface with the spiritual realm.

    [MORE]

    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve. It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

    Make an analogy to war. War has changed and evolved dramatically. Nobody would think of bringing Macedonian tactics, as good as they were in their day, to a modern battlefield.

    Well, there is another kind of war, today: the war for identity. And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.

    The promotion of terms, like ‘white Irish’ and ‘white British.’ Once, ‘American’ even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said ‘white person’, but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically. I don’t think anyone really wanted to give that up – actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label – but it has been usurped. And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such. What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don’t misunderstand my meaning.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird


    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve.
     
    The negative sides of the West in this regard are quite well known and visible. I often catch myself looking at things and saying to myself "This is what the EEs do not need".

    It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

     

    Where did I say otherwise? Above I described a very important aspect - that of the public bureaucracy. Stating that ideology is not enough - and that's assuming we even manage to instill the right ideology - enforcement is even more important. There need to be not only strict laws, but also vigilence over bureaucrats who deal with immigration because too much depends on them. Immigration laws should be highly selective. I would even go as far as to say there needs to be a questioning of how the labor force is managed. This will affect the finances (if we need to be poorer, but more homogeneously European, then so be it).

    And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.
     
    I think that part of it has been the ambition of Western Euros to strive for eternal progress and to take as much advantage as one can from that progress, especially economically, financially. A tribal state (or an ethnic mono-state, not just linguistic) is looked down upon not just because it seems "primitive" or "backward" but because a tribal state is not as competitive because it has to rely on limited resources (its own people). Even large mono-states often use foreigners to improve their wellbeing.

    We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.
     
    The problem is that the local population gives in too easily (don't appear to care enough). And those who do care don't really have the means to operate safely in defense of their values.

    The promotion of terms, like ‘white Irish’ and ‘white British.’
     
    These are terrible terms that I find offensive. I understand why they were introduced, but it's still not great. It should NEVER be used as a template for EE in the distant future. Or maybe not so distant...

    Once, ‘American’ even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said ‘white person’, but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically.
     
    Right, but again I must return to what I said above - self-sufficiency. This diligent nation that colonized so successfully (and by the way colonization wasn't easy, one didn't just come over and plop down on fertile soil, the colonists dealt with major challenges - weather, hard work, Indian ambushes, etc)... they didn't manage to be self-sufficient in the end in a sense that once you have larger ambitions to grow as a nation, to the extent that they wanted to, you move away from the core and assimilate other groups. You change your ideology from ethno nationalism and strong attachment to your religious denomination to the idea of a "political nation".

    I don’t think anyone really wanted to give that up – actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label – but it has been usurped.
     
    You have to chose. Either you are smaller and more self-sufficient (even while popping out 7 babies as the colonist women did at one point but it is still not enough to populate the whole continent). Or you dilute to some extent. If you stay in your more contained form, you will eventually have to compete for space because others will take up your neighboring space.


    And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such.
     
    Yes, I know what you mean. I want to support you but I have to defer my response here because it is not my place to tell Americans how they should be or what constitutes an American.

    What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.
     
    I think it depends, I think originally many groups showed great loyalty. Even Obama wrote in his book that some immigrants are now "entitled" (as opposed to the ones in the past who weren't).

    As to identity, some people just don't care about assimilating, they're ok with just speaking English (they care more about the material side of their children's life, good education, good nutrition, better work options). You feel that they have done it at your expense, but you need to take it up not with them but with those above you who made those decisions to not be a self-sufficient nation. And I understand how helpless you feel because you were never the one to make those decisions.

    I'm starting to have similar feelings regards my beloved Baltics as well. After 2016, we saw an influx of capital which created a lot of jobs and an increase in living standard. All of a sudden, we start seeing it. Mostly subcons though, but still... and I caught myself thinking, oh, you came here now, where were you when we had it really sh*tty? When we had it rough. You didn't care about us back then, did you. But now all of a sudden when the GDP rises above a certain level, you're readily available. I don't want to be mean but it ticks me off. And it's not the fault of these people but the damn businesses who brought them in. Then you end up desiring economic slowdown so this stops or slows down. But you cannot rely on that, but need to have a systemic approach when managing these population changes.
    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don’t misunderstand my meaning.
     
    I'm in agreement with you, 110%!

    Replies: @songbird

  284. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    There are better idols to worship
     
    Know your ideas, yet?

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, I’d define an idol as some finite physical object, that one turns to in order to satisfy ones hunger for the Infinite.

    It never works, however, some get you closer to the infinite than others.

    Nations, as spiritual entities, aren’t the worst idols one can have – but in the physical genetic sense, they are quite remote from the infinite.

    There is a reason nationalists who focus on the physical genetic aspect palpably ooze discontent and unhappiness – their chosen idol is giving them very, very little of the infinite they are really craving. It’s like trying to get sweet nectar out of a rock.

    But nations in the physical sense are purely a modern idea. A step up, is nation as a spiritual entity, as a community of people with a common sense of spiritual destiny and a common spiritual practice oriented around the Infinite. This is an older idea, and has always had some of the Infinite in it, though I’d argue that this too must be left behind if one truly wants to approach the infinite.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson,
     
    Why do you think it takes people so long even when they're told, pretty directly, what they need to know?

    Well, I’d define an idol as some finite physical object,
     
    Of course you do.



    Thereby shutting yourself out from being able to perceive anything but cartoonish materialism as fake and gay, and therefore guaranteeing you remain what you perceive as "you."

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  285. @A123
    @songbird


    design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. ... That is, if you want to keep some national identity.
     
    Identity is trained. To the extent migration occurs it has to be backed up by assimilation.

    Keeping control of education is key. Many have warned of this: (1)

    Yesterday, commenter “Paul Nachman” kindly drew our attention to this talk by Thomas Sowell on multicultualism. It was given some time in the 1990s, and displays Sowell’s characteristic sharpness of observation and clarity of expression He grasped the problem long before most people even noticed the phenomenon.

    An excerpt:

    But is there any evidence that colleges that have gone whole hog into multiculturalism have better relations among the various groups on campus? Or is it precisely on such campuses that separatism and hostility are worse than on campuses that have not gone in for the multicultural craze?

    You want to see multiculturalism in action? Look at Yugoslavia, at Lebanon, at Sri Lanka, at Northern Ireland, at Azerbaijan, or wherever else group “identity” has been hyped. There is no point in the multiculturalists’ saying that this is not what they have in mind. You might as well open the floodgates and then say that you don’t mean for people to drown. Once you have opened the floodgates, you can’t tell the water where to do.
     

     
    If the "have nots" can destroy workers via wealth extraction -- cohesiveness is a pipe dream. Similarly, if multiculturalists can swamp unifying nationalism, the system will inevitability fail.

    If nations are to have elections, then the system needs restrictions. Heinlein's Starship Troopers introduced the idea of full citizens with the vote, recognized residents with rights but no vote. However it was not dwelled on in depth. Limiting the vote to only committed nationalists makes a great deal of sense. How would one design such a system?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.thenewneo.com/2023/02/14/sowell-on-multiculturalism/

    Replies: @songbird

    Limiting the vote to only committed nationalists makes a great deal of sense. How would one design such a system?

    This is a perennial question, but a good one. While I believe that what prevails is not often the popular will, I also simultaneously believe the very idea of radical democratic universalism causes severe harm to society.

    [MORE]

    At a minimum, I think that we should attempt to weed out voters with no future-orientation. One marker of this might be people who can’t understand conditional hypotheticals (unfortunately, a substantial fraction of the population.)

    IMO, we should also encourage marriage and natalism, for reasons of future orientation. The difficult part of this might be how to do it effectively, without imbalancing society towards gerontocracy and senescence. (because less young people are married than old)

    I will not attempt to float a complete strategy, only say that I think we need to come up with an alternative system where real estate is not seen as the default way to store wealth, and, so we make it relatively easy for working people to afford housing and homes. And, perhaps, we even need come up with an alternative system to social security and medicare.

    Somehow, me must claw our way back up to replacement and sustainability, no matter how many it may offend.

  286. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Well, I'd define an idol as some finite physical object, that one turns to in order to satisfy ones hunger for the Infinite.

    It never works, however, some get you closer to the infinite than others.

    Nations, as spiritual entities, aren't the worst idols one can have - but in the physical genetic sense, they are quite remote from the infinite.

    There is a reason nationalists who focus on the physical genetic aspect palpably ooze discontent and unhappiness - their chosen idol is giving them very, very little of the infinite they are really craving. It's like trying to get sweet nectar out of a rock.

    But nations in the physical sense are purely a modern idea. A step up, is nation as a spiritual entity, as a community of people with a common sense of spiritual destiny and a common spiritual practice oriented around the Infinite. This is an older idea, and has always had some of the Infinite in it, though I'd argue that this too must be left behind if one truly wants to approach the infinite.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson,

    Why do you think it takes people so long even when they’re told, pretty directly, what they need to know?

    Well, I’d define an idol as some finite physical object,

    Of course you do.

    [MORE]

    Thereby shutting yourself out from being able to perceive anything but cartoonish materialism as fake and gay, and therefore guaranteeing you remain what you perceive as “you.”

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Someone has to be in a receptive spiritual state to recieve certain truths. Mere information is never enough.

    Often, certain events can precipitate the correct state, or certain lifestyle changes. The spiritual traditions generally say that you must first live morally and with a certain detachment before you can perceive their truths. Lifestyle does, indeed, affect our receptivity to knowledge of some types.

    But the world is, as a rule, organized to prevent certain knowledge from being accepted - it can be difficult to challenge society, "authority", family, and friends.

    Finally, I am not really against the world - as the manifestation of Brahman, the world is an act if celebration - obviously, as my comments on food and aesthetics show, I delight in the material world :) Or my great love of natural beauty, for that matter.

    Or to use another idiom - Creation is a free gift of God, an act of pure love, and even if it's corrupted somewhat now it is, in essence, Good.

    Only, the world is not "mere" matter, and one must see Brahman in it.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  287. @songbird
    @LatW


    I’m not exactly sure I understand what you mean by “culturally and politically swamped”. Everyone has their own country and culture, many of the political views are aligned, and it would be more about coordination, rather than creating a full on confederation.
     
    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist.

    But beyond that, we have seen the path of the EU, and I am convinced that it is the organic path of any such organization. Meaning, I think you would need to design a system which would prevent the elites from eroding national boundaries, and it is probably harder than just putting a law or regulation down on paper. It would need to be incentivized and run through simulations, and be over-engineered by a factor of four. That is, if you want to keep some national identity.

    But even for those who aren't attached to it, and don't mind their neighbors. There is the tendency to keep growing and accepting new neighbors, and new peoples. You still would need a new national identity to prevent that, and it is not guaranteed they would give it to you.

    Replies: @LatW, @A123, @AP

    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist

    I am a vehement anti-nationalist within Ukraine, too. I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms. And I think it’s better to have one’s own nation state than to be occupied by another peoples nation-state, if those are the only available choices.

    I am basically a traditionalist. I like Austria-Hungary and PLC more then I like nation-states. Monarchs, Churches, aristocrats, parliaments (depending on one’s traditions) rather than demagogue-led “peoples assemblies” in charge. Monarchs constrained by tradition rather than “enlightened despots.” From this perspective, the American experiment has been an interesting mixed bag, both counter-revolutionary and revolutionary at the same time.

    I am more of a fan of local identities than of “national identities” constructed by some 19th century Romantics. But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.

    • Thanks: songbird, Not Raul
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @AP


    I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms
     
    What about Western liberal democracy (Hungary does not count)?

    Replies: @AP

    , @LatW
    @AP


    But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.
     
    You come into a contradiction here. An Empire is quite commonly based on foreign invasion. Not to get into the particularities of Austro-Hunagarian or PLC, but for instance the Russian Empire, which you too seem to lionize and admire, was built at the expense of others. Starting with Ivan the Terrible who razed Livonia. So the Empire was built at the expense of the nation (even if you do not consider those entities at the time full-on "nations", and even if they belong to other Empires or state formations, they were pure and untouched but were exploited by the Empires, eventually those nations were fed up and formed nation states).

    I have nothing against your stance, some contradictions are inevitable and you are mostly consistent. But this is a rather critical point. There simply would be no Ukraine without Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians would all still be "tuteshni" who can be exploited by this or that lord who comes and goes.

    Replies: @AP

  288. @Mikhail
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Too bad the Nazis can take credit for encouraging a better diet that some like the scumbag mentioned in this article might be following:

    https://www.rt.com/news/571536-massaro-azov-bandera-ukraine/

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Do your friends know that you read RT?

    Mine most certainly do not!

  289. @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    In fact, our brains have evolved so much that we have now made our planet enter the nuclear era and we can turn one of our old territorial disputes into a global catastrophic event, which history and human nature suggest will happen sooner or later.
     
    The problem may lie in the fact that human brains and bodies haven't been able to evolve to keep up with our capacity to modify our environment. Then you get an evolutionary mismatch where the species is no longer adapted to its environment and you may see reduction in numbers or the risk of something like an extinction event.

    An unavoidable reduction in numbers raises the question of whose families and whose lines are going to die out and who gets to choose, so conflicting interests over scare resources that is likely to give rise to tribalism again.

    Then there is the argument that has appeared a few times in the thread already that appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    These issues seem to be looming in some Western European countries as a result of wealth disparities and demographic change, though things are starting from a high base in terms of living standards and expectations. I wondered about the East Slav sphere as well, where distrust seems to have grown around how elites dependent on natural resource exploitation and the security forces are going to manage the future for the wider population.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Ivashka the fool, @Mikel

    appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.

    Well, I think that civilization has always carried that trade-off with it. The widespread, anarchic violence of the tribal societies was reduced by humans organizing themselves in communities where violence was more structured and monopolized by a ruling cast. These elites historically used it in their own interest more than in the interest of their communities but, as AP has often pointed out, our individual chances of getting murdered went dramatically down with these social arrangements.

    I am not too optimistic long-term but I think that the evolution since the Neolithic has been generally positive. In the current advanced societies ordinary people have a historically unprecedented control over how the state executes its monopoly on violence. Sometimes people even use that control in a negative way that actually increases violence and harm to themselves (eg “defund the police”, decriminalization of minor felonies because some communities just can’t avoid committing them, etc) but in recent times there has also been a regression when it comes to major violence (war) with elites taking these dramatic decisions and people having virtually no say in them. Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty that I wouldn’t have imagined only a year ago, even with Russia invading Ukraine.

    Part of the problem may have been that most advanced societies, and particularly the US, abolished general conscription and substituted it with armed forces composed of mercenaries. This was a natural evolution that I’ve always found positive because it’s a much better reflection of society’s needs and wishes. We don’t want to disarm ourselves in this still violent world but we’re not motivated enough to fight for what the leaders of our nation-stated decide are our interest so the mercenary solution is logical. However, this has also brought about a very big problem: our leaders are more prone than before to initiate wars, especially if they are far away from us. Only those who signed a voluntary contract do the dying so they don’t need to worry about a discontent population like they had to do in the times of Vietnam. Most people in the US (and possibly in the UK) don’t even know where exactly some of their compatriots are killing and dying and don’t care too much either.

    Perhaps the US should return to mandatory conscription and then go through another Vietnam experience (there is zero doubt that the people in DC would find another one sooner or later) for things to retake the positive evolution that characterized the second part of the 20th century. That would imperil my son though so I will personally never vote for it.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Mikel


    Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty
     
    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should've had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It's just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:

    "Some 78 percent of Finns have a positive attitude toward NATO membership and more than half are of the opinion that Finland should be open to all cooperation within NATO, including having military bases located inside Finland, according to a survey by the Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA. The survey, released on November 23, said 8 percent of Finns have a negative attitude toward joining the Western security alliance, while 10 percent had a neutral position. In March 2022, when the previous EVA survey on NATO membership was carried out, 60 percent of Finns supported joining."

    Sweden:

    "By May 2022, nearly 60 percent of the Swedes were in favor of the country joining NATO, and in July 2022, nearly two thirds of the respondents supported the Government's decision to join the alliance."

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/660842/survey-on-perception-of-nato-membership-in-sweden/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

  290. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson,
     
    Why do you think it takes people so long even when they're told, pretty directly, what they need to know?

    Well, I’d define an idol as some finite physical object,
     
    Of course you do.



    Thereby shutting yourself out from being able to perceive anything but cartoonish materialism as fake and gay, and therefore guaranteeing you remain what you perceive as "you."

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Someone has to be in a receptive spiritual state to recieve certain truths. Mere information is never enough.

    Often, certain events can precipitate the correct state, or certain lifestyle changes. The spiritual traditions generally say that you must first live morally and with a certain detachment before you can perceive their truths. Lifestyle does, indeed, affect our receptivity to knowledge of some types.

    But the world is, as a rule, organized to prevent certain knowledge from being accepted – it can be difficult to challenge society, “authority”, family, and friends.

    Finally, I am not really against the world – as the manifestation of Brahman, the world is an act if celebration – obviously, as my comments on food and aesthetics show, I delight in the material world 🙂 Or my great love of natural beauty, for that matter.

    Or to use another idiom – Creation is a free gift of God, an act of pure love, and even if it’s corrupted somewhat now it is, in essence, Good.

    Only, the world is not “mere” matter, and one must see Brahman in it.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What would you call a mechanism that someone ends up falling back on to avoid the exact truth they need?

    E.g devaluing the person offering it, or perhaps waffling on in a banal and irrelevant manner?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  291. @Leaves No Shadow
    @S

    Kevin MacDonald is someone for whom the Jungian archetype of "the innocent" is synonymous with whites, "the magician" with Jews, and "the bad king" and "the vampire" as mostly white elites though sometimes also Jewish.

    Of course, each and every single one of these is projection of his own deeply narcissistic worldview, as I have literally described narcissism in conventionally Jungian terms*, but it is astonishing how well these archetypes fit his work.

    The reality that he thinks the Jews warp is only his own magician warping his.

    Does this mean he is actually narcisistic in his own life? No, in fact it could mean he is a co-dependent type who hides this co-dependent personality from himself via performances of masculinity. It would also make him extremely sucseptible to persuasion by obviously narcisistic bombastic types exactly like Ritter and MacGregor. Furthermore, he would likely be drawn to women, or men, who were that type, and this would confirm, if heterosexual, his misogynistic view of women, by a selection effect operating on his own experience, and if a quiet homosexual, it would likely be an aspect of his fantasies. And honestly, he could end up doing both.

    * https://psychcentral.com/pro/recovery-expert/2018/09/narcissism-explained-jungian-theory#11

    Replies: @Greasy William

    are you saying a narcissistic man is more likely to be attracted to a narcissistic and bombastic woman? I would say the opposite, if anything

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    I said co-dependent type, so you're agreeing with me.

    Not that "bombastic" is necessarily a good marker for narcissism, but when it is combined with a complete inability to reflect or learn, it most likely is.

  292. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow


    refrain from marching around nature and picturesque old towns?
     
    I march around nature constantly and one thing never observed there is fat people.

    As for your picturesque old towns, perhaps you might maybe lobby with your local tourist board to discourage fat tourists? Those fat bus seats look like a juicy target. If nothing else works you could send them an anonymous message that if they don't retire the buses it would be a real shame if something happened to them.

    Do your local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.

    On the other hand this probably is a subject you don't want to get me started on. : )

    https://c8.alamy.com/comp/R4096E/large-heavy-woman-shopper-on-in-store-use-only-electric-shopping-scooter-R4096E.jpg

    Replies: @Mikhail, @Beckow

    …local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.

    Canary in a coal mine, indeed…

    In Bruges movie has a great scene w fat American tourists, lobbying won’t help…

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Beckow

    A few years ago I was on a geology field trip north of Los Angeles where if you hike about one mile horizontal and 6 or 700 foot vertical from the main stop you could get to a magnificent sheer face on the San Andreas fault. A couple spots on the trail with small boulder obstacles where hand holds are advisable. The trip guru described this. One fellow, who did not look like the actor in your clip, but definitely had a sizable beer gut asked for some detail.

    Guru looks at him, looks down at his midsection, looks up at his eyes, and says,

    "I don't think you can make it."

    He made it but I am pretty sure he wished he hadn't.

  293. @AP
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist
     
    I am a vehement anti-nationalist within Ukraine, too. I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms. And I think it’s better to have one’s own nation state than to be occupied by another peoples nation-state, if those are the only available choices.

    I am basically a traditionalist. I like Austria-Hungary and PLC more then I like nation-states. Monarchs, Churches, aristocrats, parliaments (depending on one’s traditions) rather than demagogue-led “peoples assemblies” in charge. Monarchs constrained by tradition rather than “enlightened despots.” From this perspective, the American experiment has been an interesting mixed bag, both counter-revolutionary and revolutionary at the same time.

    I am more of a fan of local identities than of “national identities” constructed by some 19th century Romantics. But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LatW

    I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms

    What about Western liberal democracy (Hungary does not count)?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Greasy William

    Well, it evolved organically in the Anglo world so it’s okay there. As a system - of course everything depends on the nature of the people, in liberal democracy or anywhere else.

  294. @AP
    @Beckow


    “Ukraine is erasing the Russian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people”

    Right. And Germany was erasing Jews on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people. Turkey was erasing the Armenian language and culture on its territory, in accordance with the will of a majority of its people
     
    And now you dishonestly make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture and language on its territory and Germany and Turkey killing millions of Jews and Armenians.

    Would you also compare the language policies of France and the Baltics to the slaughter of Jews and Armenians?

    With the Nato in Ukraine issue you simply deny the obvious and are desperate. Your “5%” chance is idiotic. Nothing is 100%, but without the war the chance of Kiev in Nato was 70-80% within a decade

     

    Like in 2008?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Beckow

    …make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture

    No, the equivalence is with your statement “in accordance with the will of a majority of its people“…majority can’t erase culture, language, or people. You have a reading comprehension problem.

    Like in 2008?…

    No, don’t be dense – in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014. But you know that – you lost the argument so you escape into absurdity and strawmen…

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    …make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture

    No, the equivalence is with your statement “in accordance with the will of a majority of its people“
     
    And you then proceeded to compare Ukraine's erasure of the Russian language and culture with the German treatment of Jews and Turkish treatment of Armenians. And now you pretend that you really just meant majority will linked them all?

    majority can’t erase culture, language, or people.
     
    If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased. And if the majority find it too difficult to do so personally out of habit, that majority can decide to shut all schools in the language and limit all media in that language. It will also be erasure, it will just take a little longer. In Ukraine there is a combination of the two. Some people have personally switched, some of those who have not done so support the elimination of Russian from all official or public settings such as schools and airwaves.

    Like in 2008 [NATO membership]?…

    No, don’t be dense – in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014.
     
    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn't; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn't, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has "helpfully" invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin's reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    Replies: @Beckow

  295. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yes, it's perfectly OK. I could care less if my "bloodlines" - whatever they are - get absorbed into the common human mass. Quite happy for that to happen. I am not my body - in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as? Perhaps a snail :) I'd like to be a cat, for the sheer fun of it, but I doubt I get to choose - most likely, I will manifest where I need the spiritual lesson, perhaps I will even need to be a dreary White Nationalist, to understand certain things - or maybe just because the Great Spirit has a macabre sense of humor :)

    There are better idols to worship, Bashi. But best is not to worship idols.

    Bashi, you are good, you have value, you have worth, you are valid - you don't need to derive your self-worth from these idols. You are loved, Bashi, by the Great Spirit. Indeed, you are Atman, you are the All, you need not cling to these fragments :)

    You are full, complete, and perfect, Bashi - if I could give you a hug over the internet, I would.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Ivashka the fool

    I am not my body – in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as?

    I know: you will be reborn as a kosher lox bagel.

    🙃

    [MORE]

    I could give you a hug over the internet

    Wow, wow, hold on there, I am not G
    gay, thanks, but no, thanks !

    🙂

    Now seriously: rebirth is not reincarnation. The flow of causality causes things to appear or disappear. But it is impossible to ever say that someone has truly come or someone has truly gone. That is why the Tathagata is not to be known by his bodily characteristics or said to be coming or going. When known that way, the Tathagata is recognized as the One thus come/gone.

    But you know that already (Madhyamaka, Prajnaparamita and all that…)

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Ivashka the fool

    I wouldn't mind that, it'd be a brief life, and I'd die giving someone happiness :) After that, I'd get my chance to be the snail I've always wanted to be.

    What, Slavs of the same gender don't hug? Say it ain't so - and I thought you guys were cool :) The whole aversion to physical affection is very American, you know.

    You make good points about rebirth. Yeah, it's not something I'm committed to just an idea that I think expresses something about our true natures and I like toying with it.

  296. @Greasy William
    @Leaves No Shadow

    are you saying a narcissistic man is more likely to be attracted to a narcissistic and bombastic woman? I would say the opposite, if anything

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I said co-dependent type, so you’re agreeing with me.

    Not that “bombastic” is necessarily a good marker for narcissism, but when it is combined with a complete inability to reflect or learn, it most likely is.

  297. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Someone has to be in a receptive spiritual state to recieve certain truths. Mere information is never enough.

    Often, certain events can precipitate the correct state, or certain lifestyle changes. The spiritual traditions generally say that you must first live morally and with a certain detachment before you can perceive their truths. Lifestyle does, indeed, affect our receptivity to knowledge of some types.

    But the world is, as a rule, organized to prevent certain knowledge from being accepted - it can be difficult to challenge society, "authority", family, and friends.

    Finally, I am not really against the world - as the manifestation of Brahman, the world is an act if celebration - obviously, as my comments on food and aesthetics show, I delight in the material world :) Or my great love of natural beauty, for that matter.

    Or to use another idiom - Creation is a free gift of God, an act of pure love, and even if it's corrupted somewhat now it is, in essence, Good.

    Only, the world is not "mere" matter, and one must see Brahman in it.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    What would you call a mechanism that someone ends up falling back on to avoid the exact truth they need?

    E.g devaluing the person offering it, or perhaps waffling on in a banal and irrelevant manner?

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Laxa, how would you call the mechanism where someone pretends spiritually helping others when they cannot help themselves ?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I don't think I have a name for that. Just one of the many ways one might have to avoid hearing a message they're not ready for, I suppose. Like I said, it's difficult - and scary - seeing past the socially approved narrative, and generally you first have to live a certain way to hear certain messages.

    Btw, I believe everybody really, at bottom, only needs one thing; and the various needs one has are just searches for that one thing in different form.

    😉

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  298. S says:

    Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists?…

    It’s a sign of how things have deteriorated. There used to be plenty. See Charles Lindbergh, for example. There is more to it of course. [The United States is complicated 🙂 .]

    ..I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots. Kinds of just two extremes (by Anglo culture, I do not mean the native English culture, or the culture of the peoples of the British Isles, but the so called mass Anglo culture).

    You have a very valid point.

    In regards to the Anglosphere, let me first say a couple of things about the United States as I am most familiar with it, and how the US relates to Europe and the rest of the world:

    [MORE]

    1) The United States of [North] America/[North] American Union is the model for the rest of the world’s continents. What they have done in North America, in regards to continentilization and the forced introduction of wage slavery (ie the early 19th century monetization of chattel slavery and it’s trade, specifically referring to the so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system) which is the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state, is what they intend to do (are doing) in Europe and the rest of the world, working towards the goal of a global super-state, the United States of the World/Global Union. If you want to know what’s intended for Europe and elsewhere, and how it will be done, and has been done, study US history from it’s founding to the present closely.

    2) Not that people in Europe need to be told for the most part, but if you do not like what I have described in point one above, ie Europe and Europeans being modeled upon the United States and it’s citizens, along with it’s forced wage slavery, ie the so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system, I can only suggest in general not using the same tactics as those in the United States who have themselves resisted certain of these things being promoted by the US. [I cringe when I see Europeans copying the same failed ideas of resistance tried first in the United States, ie ‘White Nationalism’, and the sick fetishizing of NS Germany, most people in the US being plenty content with a republic, albeit one not economically based on slavery, either chattel or wage, and most also having relatives who had fought against Germany in WWII, my own included, though I don’t think the US should have fought in the war.]

    In regards to the two extremes of either ‘passivity’ or ‘bigotry’ you have described, there is plenty of reason, though not excuses, for that. The below is a probably not inclusive list of the reasons and not necessarily in their order of importance. As I said, the United States is complicated, besides at times being something of a mass of contradictions. 🙂

    1) Since the founding of the United States in 1776, there has been in a sense, two countries, one, an organic ethnically (ie racially) based one which most have probably supported, and a second country supported by powerful elements of the elites and their hangers on, amongst the latter at the founding being chattel slave dealers/owners, often being high level members of secret societies, and who soon will champion wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’), and whom wish the United States to be the very spearhead in the building of a future global super-state or ’empire’ as they call it. The latter country, with it’s visions of a global empire and reliance on slavery, either chattel or wage, is wholly at odds with an ethnically/racially based organic identity for a country. These two country’s have been at war with each other, the odds tending to be against the former organically based identity/non-slavery engaging country succeeding, and in favor of the slavery based/empire seeking one.

    2) If a person doesn’t have some reasonably good idea what the people at the high levels of the secret societies (which have historically permeated US culture) are up to, Freemasons in particular, they will be operating in the blind, and won’t have much of a chance of success. Unfortunately, almost everyone in the US has a relative, friend, or acquaintance, that was (or sometimes, is) a member of one of these societies, though often very low level. Should you attempt to inform many of these persons about the secret societies, their response is often ‘My friend John is one. He’s a good egg.’, or, ‘Uncle Jack was a member. Salt of the Earth!’, etc, and that’s as far as it goes with a good number of these people on what is in reality a quite important subject. Without understanding in regards to the secret societies, particularly their high levels, a person fights he knows not what.

    3) The near complete failure to this very day to have not recognized that chattel slavery and it’s trade, in accordance with the tenet of Capitalism to maximize profits, had been monetized rather than ‘abolished’ in the early 19th century with the introduction by diktat in the Anglosphere countries of wage slavery, ie specifically the so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’ system, the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state as modeled by the Anglosphere.

    4) The long term dysfunctional relationship which has existed between the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples, ultimately quite unhealthy and destructive for both parties, and the failure to have amicably (if at all possible) to have separated from each other. No matter how tempting it might be, it’s very unhealthy for one people to allow another people, no matter how well meaning, to ‘handle it’s affairs’, just as an individual cannot in any healthy manner allow another individual, no matter how well meaning, to run his or her own life. This error has been compounded with the unfortunate (and absurd) ideology of British Israelism. A sensitive subject, but due to the longterm dysfunctional nature of the Anglo-Saxon – Jewish relationship, if a person wants insight into the Jewish state of Israel, study closely the Anglo-Saxon United States, if a person wants insight into the Anglo-Saxon United States, study the Jewish state of Israel.

    I should add, that today a great percentage of the US population is not so much propagandized, but rather brainwashed, which helps to explain in part the ‘passivity’.

    Those who sense something is amiss and wish to do something, but not understanding the four points I made above, amongst other things besides for sure, ie not understanding about the secret socieities and their relationship to the United States and the world, not understanding about slavery not in reality being abolished, but still being with us in its monetized form, wage slavery, ie so called ‘cheap labor’, not understanding the long term dysfunctional relationship, bad ultimately for both, between the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples, etc, are fighting blind, and therefore frustrated and angry, and it shows in the ‘bigotry’ you describe.

    I should add, besides being proper, it’s the easiest thing in the world to be civil, cordial, and mutually respectful with one another, and to not engage in name calling and racial epithets. It’s an unwelcome distraction to resolving very real problems between peoples. Those who can’t refrain from that behaviour should be asked to leave.

    In addition to that, there is a powerful moral case on the side of those not wishing to partake of the planned world state/empire, ie the New Rome, or, the United States of the World, and it’s slavery based economic and political system, much as there was against the original ancient Rome. Indeed, the anti slavery, anti-genocide, and anti-empire, moral case against it, is far superior to the so called ‘progressive’ moral case for it.

    Why besmirch it with anything?

    As a related aside, a great many of my posts at this site are related to the history of the United States and Britain, and their historic relationship, much of it not as well known as it ought to be, and hence why I post on the subject. Indeed, if I were ever to collate them, something I don’t intend to do, I might, just to humor myself, call it The Secret History of the United States and United Kingdom. 😀

    None of it is intended to bash anyone, Anglo-Saxon or otherwise.

    When the Fall of Capitalism likely takes place, ie the impending economic and political collapse of the United States and it’s Western bloc, the internal archives of the United States in Washington DC might be opened for a time, just as those in Moscow were for a short period when the Fall of Communism took place.

    Having some of these ‘secrets’ revealed a little early for society’s perusal might be of some use to some people of goodwill …maybe. 🙂

    • Replies: @LatW
    @S


    Since the founding of the United States in 1776, there has been in a sense, two countries, one, an organic ethnically (ie racially) based one which most have probably supported, and a second country supported by powerful elements of the elites and their hangers on, amongst the latter at the founding being chattel slave dealers/owners, often being high level members of secret societies, and who soon will champion wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’), and whom wish the United States to be the very spearhead in the building of a future global super-state or ’empire’ as they call it.
     
    Well, who were these elements exactly...? Are you saying George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?

    Btw, many decent size American cities have a Free Mason lodge, usually a church like building. But they are not as "influential" or popular as they once were I guess. Maybe they moved to banker circles or top levels of biggest corporations, or something?

    Replies: @A123

  299. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What would you call a mechanism that someone ends up falling back on to avoid the exact truth they need?

    E.g devaluing the person offering it, or perhaps waffling on in a banal and irrelevant manner?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Laxa, how would you call the mechanism where someone pretends spiritually helping others when they cannot help themselves ?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    People often call it the "wounded healer". Helping others is thereby a coping mechanism for someone unable to transcend their own suffering. They'll rarely be able to clearly perceive the other person though, as they'll see everything through the prism of their own un-understood suffering, which will bias the image.

    What do you call someone who trees talk to, has an impeccable ability to tell material from spiritual or delusional, perceives people excellently and chooses the suffering implicit in this existence to help, as well as not having any friction between their conscious, unconscious, the unconscious and that of other people?

    Obviously, I know what someone would call someone like that if they didn't believe them *and* they did believe that they believed themselves, which is "completely insane", but let's play and see what you'd call that person if everything in the paragraph above were literally true.

    Also, I'm LNS. This is important as you might be able to detect from my posts. And for other highly practical reasons, please!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  300. @Mikhail
    LogKa
    @LogKa11
    Ukrainian soldier performs a Nazi Salute whilst sitting on top of a German Leopard 2 tank in Poland.

    https://twitter.com/LogKa11/status/1625471092901961729

    Replies: @Mikhail, @sudden death, @LatW

    It’s actually more of an “I love you” gesture. Some EE men do this gesture sometimes, you bump your fist lightly at your heart – it means “love, strenght, pride”. It’s ridiculous, for these Western Putinoids, now every movement of your right arm is a “sieg”. Geez.
    Nice fellow in the video.

    • Replies: @AP
    @LatW

    It’s useful, in the sense that anyone who saw that video and claimed it was a Nazi salute has publicly revealed himself to be completely ignorant and gullible.

  301. @LatW
    @Mikhail

    It's actually more of an "I love you" gesture. Some EE men do this gesture sometimes, you bump your fist lightly at your heart - it means "love, strenght, pride". It's ridiculous, for these Western Putinoids, now every movement of your right arm is a "sieg". Geez.
    Nice fellow in the video.

    Replies: @AP

    It’s useful, in the sense that anyone who saw that video and claimed it was a Nazi salute has publicly revealed himself to be completely ignorant and gullible.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  302. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Laxa, how would you call the mechanism where someone pretends spiritually helping others when they cannot help themselves ?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    People often call it the “wounded healer”. Helping others is thereby a coping mechanism for someone unable to transcend their own suffering. They’ll rarely be able to clearly perceive the other person though, as they’ll see everything through the prism of their own un-understood suffering, which will bias the image.

    What do you call someone who trees talk to, has an impeccable ability to tell material from spiritual or delusional, perceives people excellently and chooses the suffering implicit in this existence to help, as well as not having any friction between their conscious, unconscious, the unconscious and that of other people?

    Obviously, I know what someone would call someone like that if they didn’t believe them *and* they did believe that they believed themselves, which is “completely insane”, but let’s play and see what you’d call that person if everything in the paragraph above were literally true.

    Also, I’m LNS. This is important as you might be able to detect from my posts. And for other highly practical reasons, please!

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Okay LNS. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. If you hear trees talking and they say nice things, then enjoy it.

    Replies: @Mikel

  303. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ivashka the fool

    People often call it the "wounded healer". Helping others is thereby a coping mechanism for someone unable to transcend their own suffering. They'll rarely be able to clearly perceive the other person though, as they'll see everything through the prism of their own un-understood suffering, which will bias the image.

    What do you call someone who trees talk to, has an impeccable ability to tell material from spiritual or delusional, perceives people excellently and chooses the suffering implicit in this existence to help, as well as not having any friction between their conscious, unconscious, the unconscious and that of other people?

    Obviously, I know what someone would call someone like that if they didn't believe them *and* they did believe that they believed themselves, which is "completely insane", but let's play and see what you'd call that person if everything in the paragraph above were literally true.

    Also, I'm LNS. This is important as you might be able to detect from my posts. And for other highly practical reasons, please!

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Okay LNS. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. If you hear trees talking and they say nice things, then enjoy it.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool

    Do the Telegram accounts you follow offer any hint on what Putin may announce on Feb 21st? Any chance of putting an end to the war?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  304. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    What would you call a mechanism that someone ends up falling back on to avoid the exact truth they need?

    E.g devaluing the person offering it, or perhaps waffling on in a banal and irrelevant manner?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I don’t think I have a name for that. Just one of the many ways one might have to avoid hearing a message they’re not ready for, I suppose. Like I said, it’s difficult – and scary – seeing past the socially approved narrative, and generally you first have to live a certain way to hear certain messages.

    Btw, I believe everybody really, at bottom, only needs one thing; and the various needs one has are just searches for that one thing in different form.

    😉

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Not as difficult and scary as seeing past one's reaction to what one thinks is the socially approved narrative, it seems.

  305. @Ivashka the fool
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I am not my body – in my next incarnation, who knows what I will manifest as?
     
    I know: you will be reborn as a kosher lox bagel.

    🙃


    I could give you a hug over the internet
     
    Wow, wow, hold on there, I am not G
    gay, thanks, but no, thanks !

    🙂

    Now seriously: rebirth is not reincarnation. The flow of causality causes things to appear or disappear. But it is impossible to ever say that someone has truly come or someone has truly gone. That is why the Tathagata is not to be known by his bodily characteristics or said to be coming or going. When known that way, the Tathagata is recognized as the One thus come/gone.

    But you know that already (Madhyamaka, Prajnaparamita and all that...)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I wouldn’t mind that, it’d be a brief life, and I’d die giving someone happiness 🙂 After that, I’d get my chance to be the snail I’ve always wanted to be.

    What, Slavs of the same gender don’t hug? Say it ain’t so – and I thought you guys were cool 🙂 The whole aversion to physical affection is very American, you know.

    You make good points about rebirth. Yeah, it’s not something I’m committed to just an idea that I think expresses something about our true natures and I like toying with it.

  306. @Yahya
    @songbird


    Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

     

    Irrelevant. You said "Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern" as if to imply she's not really a Western women; which is mind-bogglingly stupid. Almost like saying African-Americans aren't black because they have "substantial" European ancestry.

    What would be the percentage of non-Han
     
    25-50%

    In light of this appreciation for cultural diversity, the Tang Dynasty saw the influx of thousands of foreigners who came to live in Chinese commercial hub cities such as Canton and Chang’an. Expatriates spilled in from all over Asia and beyond, with a bounty of people from Persia, Arabia, India, Korea, and Southeast and Central Asia. Chinese cities became bustling epicenters of commerce and trade, abundant in foreign residents and the plethora of cultural riches that they brought with them. Southern port cities such as Canton and Fuzhou swelled with foreigners as trade expanded in Southeast Asia and along the Chinese coast. A census taken in 742 CE showed that the foreign proportion of the registered population had massively increased from nearly a quarter in the early seventh century to nearly half by the mid seventh century, with an estimated 200,000 foreigners in residence in Canton alone.

    https://www.thecollector.com/tang-dynasty-golden-age-china/

     

    This is a piece of artwork from the Tang era:

    https://cdn.thecollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/li-zhaodao-emperor-xuanzong-tang-fleeing-11th-century.jpg?width=1400&quality=55

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West. You make the mistake of assuming diversity only exits in the modern West ("muh unparalleled invasion"). Once again, the presence of diversity is no impediment to cultural flourishing. You still haven't refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc. It doesn't mean all forms of migration is good; or that diversity is a necessary condition for cultural flourishing. But you are wrong to assume that diversity is an impediment to cultural flourishing. You are too ideologically racist anyway to accept this fact; there's no use in arguing with you.


    TBH, not much of Roman culture seems to survive. (And many say that Greek culture was superior.) The two best-preserved Roman novels Satyricon and The Golden Ass seem to both be degenerate filth.
     
    That Roman culture hasn't survived doesn't have any bearing on its worthiness or sophistication. Every culture dies eventually. Are you going to tell me classical music isn't all that because it's become an almost extinct art form? Or that Ancient Egypt was small potatoes because it's culture "only" lasted 3,000 years?

    The Romans weren't as intellectually productive as the Greeks, not because of diversity; but because their deeply-rooted aversion to lexus (self-indulgence) and inertia (idleness). The Roman code, established during the Republic, demanded that Roman gentleman embody vigor and industriousness; which is antithical to the leisurely disposition needed to acquire knowledge. The Romans directed their intellectual efforts to administration and war-making; whereas Greeks put more attachment to scholarly and intellectual pursuits. Again, these are matters of cultural differences, not ethnic compositions.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people's imaginations long after it collapsed. Your founding fathers otherwise would not have modelled their constitution and public buildings on Roman laws and architecture.


    Right, your recurring bit where you call me a Nazi because I don’t support the dispossession of my people.

     

    I call you a Nazi because of your bizarre obsession with Germany. TL wasn't even specifically talking about Germany when she stated that cultured and intelligent Iranians were desirable immigrants. But of course, you just had to shift the topic to Germany. Lol.

    Germans aren't your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American. You presuming to dictate which group of people in Germany should be deported; is like me telling Iranians they should deport the x and y group. I have never and would never presume to tell Iranians they should deport the Afghan refugees in their country; or go around calling them parasites and invaders. That would just be gawky and obnoxious; it's none of my business.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird

    >Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    Irrelevant. You said “Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern”

    Original context, lost to both your feeble mind and Trix’s, was the “Nazi” Anglin’s thought processes. The rest was, like you, a joke. Maddow’s incredible ugliness has made her the butt of yahyas, even in American pop culture, but usually in a more PC way, which doesn’t involve demos.

    And no, I will not accept Maddow! Even if she was pure Euro, she would still be a hideous, traitorous lesbo looking to do her bit to destroy Western society, and “overthrow the patriarchy.” My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.

    [MORE]

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.

    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.

    You still haven’t refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc.

    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud] Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!

    >Canton and Fuzhou

    I said “core Han areas” (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified “no colonial areas” (as in the areas the Han colonized)! Are you really so much of a fool that you would cite the Southern coast of China, to me as an area the Han originated in?

    Read it, if you can, you moron:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/chinese-migration-south-china

    Back during early Tang, there is even a remote possibility that there were still a few Negritos around in the hills.

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West.

    Buddhism’s journey from India to Japan took 1000 years, and you think that China was ever more diverse than the modern West?

    Not even when there were still Negritos in the hills, or headhunters on Taiwan. Maybe, when modern humans first fought against Denisovans in China, but China is so isolated that many Chinese scientists actually believe that the Chinese evolved in China, from Dragon Man.

    Germans aren’t your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American.

    No matter how many times you try, I will never let a sand-person dictate my sympathies or interests. Especially a braindead or heat-blasted one, like you.

    Here’s something for you to ponder: suppose that I was always motivated by a very circumscribed sense of family and blood. Can’t I be 100% Irish and still have connections to other places? For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

    And even putting that aside, mightn’t I actually be able to trace a tiny bit of my own genealogy back to people with surviving tombs in England, France, and Germany?

    And that is just in a very narrow, constrained and cynical view, but you are a sightless fool, incapable of even glimpsing through a keyhole, when someone holds your face to it.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I like this comment. It is funny. Taking Songbird in a punchier direction!

    , @Yahya
    @songbird


    My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.
     
    Ha, our little birdie is finally gathering up what meager strength she has to throw an insult. Much better than your previous comebacks, but still not there yet. Perhaps in due time we'll upgrade your status from "whiny wimp" to merely a "wimp". But you have a long way to go.


    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.
     
    Very perceptive comment. Almost as if no-one has ever thought of ascertaining the causes for the collapse of the Roman Empire. They should award you with a Nobel prize for your wonderful discovery.

    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud]. Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!
     
    Good, avoid addressing my point; go off on tangents; and put words in my mouth.

    As usual.


    I said “core Han areas” (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified “no colonial areas” (as in the areas the Han colonized)!

     

    You don't get to dictate which examples are applicable or not.

    I made the point that diversity is no impediment of cultural flourishing. I gave three examples. You can't refute a single one; though at least with the Roman example you gave a reasonable try. You are blinded by racism and ideology to accept these objective facts.


    For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

     

    You can apply that to any group. Suppose your brother married an African-American women. Their son would carry African and Irish genes, the latter of which is substantially similar to your own genes. Does that make you an African-American then; give you the right to presume to speak on their behalf?

    No. So quit being a delusional moron. You are not German. You probably can't even speak the language fluently. These aren't my opinions, these are facts.

    I have Turkish ancestry (probably more than you have German); but I don't go around LARPing as a Turk, calling them "my people". Neither do I tell them they should deport all the Kurdish "parasites" etc. Or get upset when some foreigners protest using another language in Istanbul.

    Replies: @songbird

  307. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I don't think I have a name for that. Just one of the many ways one might have to avoid hearing a message they're not ready for, I suppose. Like I said, it's difficult - and scary - seeing past the socially approved narrative, and generally you first have to live a certain way to hear certain messages.

    Btw, I believe everybody really, at bottom, only needs one thing; and the various needs one has are just searches for that one thing in different form.

    😉

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Not as difficult and scary as seeing past one’s reaction to what one thinks is the socially approved narrative, it seems.

  308. @songbird
    @Yahya


    >Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    Irrelevant. You said “Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern”
     
    Original context, lost to both your feeble mind and Trix's, was the "Nazi" Anglin's thought processes. The rest was, like you, a joke. Maddow's incredible ugliness has made her the butt of yahyas, even in American pop culture, but usually in a more PC way, which doesn't involve demos.

    And no, I will not accept Maddow! Even if she was pure Euro, she would still be a hideous, traitorous lesbo looking to do her bit to destroy Western society, and "overthrow the patriarchy." My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.
     
    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.

    You still haven’t refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc.
     
    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud] Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!

    >Canton and Fuzhou
     
    I said "core Han areas" (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified "no colonial areas" (as in the areas the Han colonized)! Are you really so much of a fool that you would cite the Southern coast of China, to me as an area the Han originated in?

    Read it, if you can, you moron:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/chinese-migration-south-china

    Back during early Tang, there is even a remote possibility that there were still a few Negritos around in the hills.

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West.
     
    Buddhism's journey from India to Japan took 1000 years, and you think that China was ever more diverse than the modern West?

    Not even when there were still Negritos in the hills, or headhunters on Taiwan. Maybe, when modern humans first fought against Denisovans in China, but China is so isolated that many Chinese scientists actually believe that the Chinese evolved in China, from Dragon Man.

    Germans aren’t your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American.
     
    No matter how many times you try, I will never let a sand-person dictate my sympathies or interests. Especially a braindead or heat-blasted one, like you.

    Here's something for you to ponder: suppose that I was always motivated by a very circumscribed sense of family and blood. Can't I be 100% Irish and still have connections to other places? For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

    And even putting that aside, mightn't I actually be able to trace a tiny bit of my own genealogy back to people with surviving tombs in England, France, and Germany?

    And that is just in a very narrow, constrained and cynical view, but you are a sightless fool, incapable of even glimpsing through a keyhole, when someone holds your face to it.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

    I like this comment. It is funny. Taking Songbird in a punchier direction!

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Thanks: songbird
  309. @Ivashka the fool
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Okay LNS. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. If you hear trees talking and they say nice things, then enjoy it.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Do the Telegram accounts you follow offer any hint on what Putin may announce on Feb 21st? Any chance of putting an end to the war?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    Some of them jokingly noticed that on February the 21st in 1613 Mikhail Romanov was proclaimed Tsar starting the Romanov dynasty. Others had ironically opined about the possibility Pynya would proclaim USSR 2.0 with Belarus and all the unrecognized republics. I don't think anyone expects anything groundbreaking.

  310. @A123
    @QCIC



    If the admission makes sense
     
    I’ll take this as a “No”. LOL.
     
    Are you confessing that no admission can make sense?

    Many thanks.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    No, but I agree these things should be thought through carefully and none of the powers that be can be trusted.

    I give the probabilities as:

    95 % blatant sabotage by the West and friends
    3 % Russia did it to cut loose Germany without looking bad or making payoffs
    2 % some accident as you suggest

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    these things should be thought through carefully and none of the powers that be can be trusted.
     
    Where are you obtaining your information?

    Could it be the "Powers That Be" as you put it?

    I give the probabilities as:

    95 % blatant sabotage by the West and friends
     
    So... according to the "Powers That Be" (e.g Not-The-President Biden) it is 95% sabotage.

    The fact that I am in opposition should strengthen my hypothesis.

    PEACE 😇
  311. @Greasy William
    @AP


    I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms
     
    What about Western liberal democracy (Hungary does not count)?

    Replies: @AP

    Well, it evolved organically in the Anglo world so it’s okay there. As a system – of course everything depends on the nature of the people, in liberal democracy or anywhere else.

  312. @songbird
    @LatW


    It is our own job to nurture our identity, but I don’t agree that “they” can give us anything or take our national identity, as easily as you seem to assume.
     
    Of course, in the purest spiritual sense, you are correct. But I fear that you are also wrong, if only in a narrow materialist sense, which however is not unimportant, and which ultimately does connect and interface with the spiritual realm.

    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve. It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

    Make an analogy to war. War has changed and evolved dramatically. Nobody would think of bringing Macedonian tactics, as good as they were in their day, to a modern battlefield.

    Well, there is another kind of war, today: the war for identity. And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.

    The promotion of terms, like 'white Irish' and 'white British.' Once, 'American' even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said 'white person', but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically. I don't think anyone really wanted to give that up - actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label - but it has been usurped. And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such. What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don't misunderstand my meaning.

    Replies: @LatW

    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve.

    The negative sides of the West in this regard are quite well known and visible. I often catch myself looking at things and saying to myself “This is what the EEs do not need”.

    It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

    Where did I say otherwise? Above I described a very important aspect – that of the public bureaucracy. Stating that ideology is not enough – and that’s assuming we even manage to instill the right ideology – enforcement is even more important. There need to be not only strict laws, but also vigilence over bureaucrats who deal with immigration because too much depends on them. Immigration laws should be highly selective. I would even go as far as to say there needs to be a questioning of how the labor force is managed. This will affect the finances (if we need to be poorer, but more homogeneously European, then so be it).

    [MORE]

    And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.

    I think that part of it has been the ambition of Western Euros to strive for eternal progress and to take as much advantage as one can from that progress, especially economically, financially. A tribal state (or an ethnic mono-state, not just linguistic) is looked down upon not just because it seems “primitive” or “backward” but because a tribal state is not as competitive because it has to rely on limited resources (its own people). Even large mono-states often use foreigners to improve their wellbeing.

    We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.

    The problem is that the local population gives in too easily (don’t appear to care enough). And those who do care don’t really have the means to operate safely in defense of their values.

    The promotion of terms, like ‘white Irish’ and ‘white British.’

    These are terrible terms that I find offensive. I understand why they were introduced, but it’s still not great. It should NEVER be used as a template for EE in the distant future. Or maybe not so distant…

    Once, ‘American’ even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said ‘white person’, but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically.

    Right, but again I must return to what I said above – self-sufficiency. This diligent nation that colonized so successfully (and by the way colonization wasn’t easy, one didn’t just come over and plop down on fertile soil, the colonists dealt with major challenges – weather, hard work, Indian ambushes, etc)… they didn’t manage to be self-sufficient in the end in a sense that once you have larger ambitions to grow as a nation, to the extent that they wanted to, you move away from the core and assimilate other groups. You change your ideology from ethno nationalism and strong attachment to your religious denomination to the idea of a “political nation”.

    I don’t think anyone really wanted to give that up – actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label – but it has been usurped.

    You have to chose. Either you are smaller and more self-sufficient (even while popping out 7 babies as the colonist women did at one point but it is still not enough to populate the whole continent). Or you dilute to some extent. If you stay in your more contained form, you will eventually have to compete for space because others will take up your neighboring space.

    And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such.

    Yes, I know what you mean. I want to support you but I have to defer my response here because it is not my place to tell Americans how they should be or what constitutes an American.

    What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.

    I think it depends, I think originally many groups showed great loyalty. Even Obama wrote in his book that some immigrants are now “entitled” (as opposed to the ones in the past who weren’t).

    As to identity, some people just don’t care about assimilating, they’re ok with just speaking English (they care more about the material side of their children’s life, good education, good nutrition, better work options). You feel that they have done it at your expense, but you need to take it up not with them but with those above you who made those decisions to not be a self-sufficient nation. And I understand how helpless you feel because you were never the one to make those decisions.

    I’m starting to have similar feelings regards my beloved Baltics as well. After 2016, we saw an influx of capital which created a lot of jobs and an increase in living standard. All of a sudden, we start seeing it. Mostly subcons though, but still… and I caught myself thinking, oh, you came here now, where were you when we had it really sh*tty? When we had it rough. You didn’t care about us back then, did you. But now all of a sudden when the GDP rises above a certain level, you’re readily available. I don’t want to be mean but it ticks me off. And it’s not the fault of these people but the damn businesses who brought them in. Then you end up desiring economic slowdown so this stops or slows down. But you cannot rely on that, but need to have a systemic approach when managing these population changes.
    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don’t misunderstand my meaning.

    I’m in agreement with you, 110%!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @LatW


    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.
     
    Latw, I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe. Imagine seeing someone who looks like Idi Amin, Jr. commiserating with someone who looks like Papa Doc III about the difficulty of their Irish lessions.

    Imagine going to the Gaeltacht, that remote part of Ireland where the language held on by its fingernails, and seeing a chorus of teenage girls perform Adele's horrible pop songs translated into Irish, with subcons among them, and a guy on the piano, who is so strange-looking that you, with an interest in geopolitics and HBD cannot even identify his ethnic origin. Part non-Javanese Indonesian, and part Papuan?

    (All within walking distance, of half your family roots.)

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies. There is a movie Black '47 which I liked, only because it had a bit of Irish in it, and would have probably disliked otherwise. I liked the star of it, even though he was technically not Irish (he may have been part), he certainly looked the part.

    But I tell you LatW, I don't like to see those scions of African dictators complaining about their Irish lessons, or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    As much as I love it, I would trade its very trace memory, its every written record, to send them away, and keep them out.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @S

  313. @Beckow
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    ...local grocery stores have fat shopper vehicles? They have been standard in American grocery stores for many years and are as good a coal mine canary as any society could ever want.
     
    Canary in a coal mine, indeed...

    In Bruges movie has a great scene w fat American tourists, lobbying won't help...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk__EJoInGA

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    A few years ago I was on a geology field trip north of Los Angeles where if you hike about one mile horizontal and 6 or 700 foot vertical from the main stop you could get to a magnificent sheer face on the San Andreas fault. A couple spots on the trail with small boulder obstacles where hand holds are advisable. The trip guru described this. One fellow, who did not look like the actor in your clip, but definitely had a sizable beer gut asked for some detail.

    Guru looks at him, looks down at his midsection, looks up at his eyes, and says,

    “I don’t think you can make it.”

    He made it but I am pretty sure he wished he hadn’t.

  314. @songbird
    @Yahya


    >Ah, now, would you really accept her, if she were 5/8ths?

    Irrelevant. You said “Rachel Maddow is a substantial fraction Middle Eastern”
     
    Original context, lost to both your feeble mind and Trix's, was the "Nazi" Anglin's thought processes. The rest was, like you, a joke. Maddow's incredible ugliness has made her the butt of yahyas, even in American pop culture, but usually in a more PC way, which doesn't involve demos.

    And no, I will not accept Maddow! Even if she was pure Euro, she would still be a hideous, traitorous lesbo looking to do her bit to destroy Western society, and "overthrow the patriarchy." My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.

    Even still, Roman culture was prestigious and sophisticated enough to continue to exert a hold on multiple people’s imaginations long after it collapsed.
     
    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.

    You still haven’t refuted the fact that Alexandria; the most intellectually productive city of antiquity; was a diverse polyglot of Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Christians etc.
     
    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud] Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!

    >Canton and Fuzhou
     
    I said "core Han areas" (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified "no colonial areas" (as in the areas the Han colonized)! Are you really so much of a fool that you would cite the Southern coast of China, to me as an area the Han originated in?

    Read it, if you can, you moron:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/chinese-migration-south-china

    Back during early Tang, there is even a remote possibility that there were still a few Negritos around in the hills.

    It was produced at a time when China was more diverse than the modern West.
     
    Buddhism's journey from India to Japan took 1000 years, and you think that China was ever more diverse than the modern West?

    Not even when there were still Negritos in the hills, or headhunters on Taiwan. Maybe, when modern humans first fought against Denisovans in China, but China is so isolated that many Chinese scientists actually believe that the Chinese evolved in China, from Dragon Man.

    Germans aren’t your people, homeboy. You are Irish-American.
     
    No matter how many times you try, I will never let a sand-person dictate my sympathies or interests. Especially a braindead or heat-blasted one, like you.

    Here's something for you to ponder: suppose that I was always motivated by a very circumscribed sense of family and blood. Can't I be 100% Irish and still have connections to other places? For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

    And even putting that aside, mightn't I actually be able to trace a tiny bit of my own genealogy back to people with surviving tombs in England, France, and Germany?

    And that is just in a very narrow, constrained and cynical view, but you are a sightless fool, incapable of even glimpsing through a keyhole, when someone holds your face to it.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya

    My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.

    Ha, our little birdie is finally gathering up what meager strength she has to throw an insult. Much better than your previous comebacks, but still not there yet. Perhaps in due time we’ll upgrade your status from “whiny wimp” to merely a “wimp”. But you have a long way to go.

    [MORE]

    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.

    Very perceptive comment. Almost as if no-one has ever thought of ascertaining the causes for the collapse of the Roman Empire. They should award you with a Nobel prize for your wonderful discovery.

    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud]. Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!

    Good, avoid addressing my point; go off on tangents; and put words in my mouth.

    As usual.

    I said “core Han areas” (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified “no colonial areas” (as in the areas the Han colonized)!

    You don’t get to dictate which examples are applicable or not.

    I made the point that diversity is no impediment of cultural flourishing. I gave three examples. You can’t refute a single one; though at least with the Roman example you gave a reasonable try. You are blinded by racism and ideology to accept these objective facts.

    For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

    You can apply that to any group. Suppose your brother married an African-American women. Their son would carry African and Irish genes, the latter of which is substantially similar to your own genes. Does that make you an African-American then; give you the right to presume to speak on their behalf?

    No. So quit being a delusional moron. You are not German. You probably can’t even speak the language fluently. These aren’t my opinions, these are facts.

    I have Turkish ancestry (probably more than you have German); but I don’t go around LARPing as a Turk, calling them “my people”. Neither do I tell them they should deport all the Kurdish “parasites” etc. Or get upset when some foreigners protest using another language in Istanbul.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yahya

    To give your reply the consideration it deserves:

    *Yahya tries to speak (NSFW, nor for the queasy)
    butt (sic) finds it is too late, and songbird has scored a direct hit, with his parachute-drop of Rachel Maddow, and the sound, which even Yahya can only hear faintly now, is of Maddow farting quietly.*

  315. @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool

    Do the Telegram accounts you follow offer any hint on what Putin may announce on Feb 21st? Any chance of putting an end to the war?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Some of them jokingly noticed that on February the 21st in 1613 Mikhail Romanov was proclaimed Tsar starting the Romanov dynasty. Others had ironically opined about the possibility Pynya would proclaim USSR 2.0 with Belarus and all the unrecognized republics. I don’t think anyone expects anything groundbreaking.

    • Thanks: Mikel
  316. @Yahya
    @songbird


    My maximum level of tolerance for her would be to parachute-drop her like a bomb on your head.
     
    Ha, our little birdie is finally gathering up what meager strength she has to throw an insult. Much better than your previous comebacks, but still not there yet. Perhaps in due time we'll upgrade your status from "whiny wimp" to merely a "wimp". But you have a long way to go.


    Rome was cool in some ways, but uncool in others. It did collapse, and we should ask why.
     
    Very perceptive comment. Almost as if no-one has ever thought of ascertaining the causes for the collapse of the Roman Empire. They should award you with a Nobel prize for your wonderful discovery.

    [Yahya, emulating his friend iffen, blows out another cloud of hashish smoke]
    Like, when the Greeks tookover Egypt, man [inhales and coughs] it was a real happening place, man! [exhales another cloud]. Therefore, being invaded by endless hordes of Africans and MENA and giving them trillions of dollars has no negative effect on culture, man!
     
    Good, avoid addressing my point; go off on tangents; and put words in my mouth.

    As usual.


    I said “core Han areas” (as in the areas the Han originated) and further specified “no colonial areas” (as in the areas the Han colonized)!

     

    You don't get to dictate which examples are applicable or not.

    I made the point that diversity is no impediment of cultural flourishing. I gave three examples. You can't refute a single one; though at least with the Roman example you gave a reasonable try. You are blinded by racism and ideology to accept these objective facts.


    For example, close relatives that I love who, in part, have different ancestries than me, say English, French, or German? Whose heritage I want to be preserved because they share my genes and I love them?

     

    You can apply that to any group. Suppose your brother married an African-American women. Their son would carry African and Irish genes, the latter of which is substantially similar to your own genes. Does that make you an African-American then; give you the right to presume to speak on their behalf?

    No. So quit being a delusional moron. You are not German. You probably can't even speak the language fluently. These aren't my opinions, these are facts.

    I have Turkish ancestry (probably more than you have German); but I don't go around LARPing as a Turk, calling them "my people". Neither do I tell them they should deport all the Kurdish "parasites" etc. Or get upset when some foreigners protest using another language in Istanbul.

    Replies: @songbird

    To give your reply the consideration it deserves:

    *Yahya tries to speak (NSFW, nor for the queasy)

    [MORE]

    butt (sic) finds it is too late, and songbird has scored a direct hit, with his parachute-drop of Rachel Maddow, and the sound, which even Yahya can only hear faintly now, is of Maddow farting quietly.*

  317. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture
     
    No, the equivalence is with your statement "in accordance with the will of a majority of its people"...majority can't erase culture, language, or people. You have a reading comprehension problem.

    Like in 2008?...
     
    No, don't be dense - in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014. But you know that - you lost the argument so you escape into absurdity and strawmen...

    Replies: @AP

    …make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture

    No, the equivalence is with your statement “in accordance with the will of a majority of its people“

    And you then proceeded to compare Ukraine’s erasure of the Russian language and culture with the German treatment of Jews and Turkish treatment of Armenians. And now you pretend that you really just meant majority will linked them all?

    majority can’t erase culture, language, or people.

    If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased. And if the majority find it too difficult to do so personally out of habit, that majority can decide to shut all schools in the language and limit all media in that language. It will also be erasure, it will just take a little longer. In Ukraine there is a combination of the two. Some people have personally switched, some of those who have not done so support the elimination of Russian from all official or public settings such as schools and airwaves.

    Like in 2008 [NATO membership]?…

    No, don’t be dense – in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014.

    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn’t; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn’t, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has “helpfully” invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin’s reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.
     
    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased? How can a grown rational person say something so stupid...how would that not be a 'genocide'? Genocide is defined as 'destroying an ethnic group in full or in part...", you are proudly advocating for a genocide.

    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.
     
    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time. You often write empty evasive nonsense and I wonder about your critical thinking. Each situation is different, if getting Kiev into Nato is controversial and hard, then the people doing it will game it, manipulate it, wait for the right time - and lie...on second thought, you and I should play poker for real money, you are clueless or pretend to be, it could be profitable...

    Nato was pushed out of Ukraine when the war started - everyone knows it, same as in Georgia in 2008. It can only be reversed with a decisive win against Russia. Anything else would mean a risk so high (nukes, another war) that Nato will not try. That means no formal membership, no joint bases, no missiles on Russia's border - how is that not a win for Russia? Sending weapons, instructors, training Ukies, emotional statements, are just noise, they mean very little if Kiev loses the war...

    Replies: @AP

  318. @AP
    @songbird


    I have a lot of trouble categorizing AP, on various grounds, but I am not altogether convinced that he wants the same endpoint as you. Outside of Ukraine (where he seems to be some weird Poland-Galician integrationalist), he appears to be a vehement anti-nationalist
     
    I am a vehement anti-nationalist within Ukraine, too. I just consider nationalism to be a far lesser evil than communism or other later -isms. And I think it’s better to have one’s own nation state than to be occupied by another peoples nation-state, if those are the only available choices.

    I am basically a traditionalist. I like Austria-Hungary and PLC more then I like nation-states. Monarchs, Churches, aristocrats, parliaments (depending on one’s traditions) rather than demagogue-led “peoples assemblies” in charge. Monarchs constrained by tradition rather than “enlightened despots.” From this perspective, the American experiment has been an interesting mixed bag, both counter-revolutionary and revolutionary at the same time.

    I am more of a fan of local identities than of “national identities” constructed by some 19th century Romantics. But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LatW

    But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.

    You come into a contradiction here. An Empire is quite commonly based on foreign invasion. Not to get into the particularities of Austro-Hunagarian or PLC, but for instance the Russian Empire, which you too seem to lionize and admire, was built at the expense of others. Starting with Ivan the Terrible who razed Livonia. So the Empire was built at the expense of the nation (even if you do not consider those entities at the time full-on “nations”, and even if they belong to other Empires or state formations, they were pure and untouched but were exploited by the Empires, eventually those nations were fed up and formed nation states).

    I have nothing against your stance, some contradictions are inevitable and you are mostly consistent. But this is a rather critical point. There simply would be no Ukraine without Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians would all still be “tuteshni” who can be exploited by this or that lord who comes and goes.

    • Replies: @AP
    @LatW


    You come into a contradiction here. An Empire is quite commonly based on foreign invasion
     
    Yes, but not always. A-H was mostly put together by marriages and diplomatic maneuvers. And liberating lands from the Turks. The second reich’s occasional colonies in the South Pacific and Africa weren’t much.

    the Russian Empire, which you too seem to lionize and admire, was built at the expense of others

     

    I oppose invasions of Christian lands but not liberation from Islam and conversion of heathens. I am a fan of Spain, for example, but not of Cromwell. Russian Empire engaged in both; it’s behavior in Europe was bad but protection of Christians in the Caucuses and Middle East good. A strong PLC would have forced Russia to do mostly good.

    There simply would be no Ukraine without Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians would all still be “tuteshni” who can be exploited by this or that lord who comes and goes.
     
    One of the most effective commanders in the 1863 rebellion against Russia was lord Edmund Rozycki. His Volhynian peasant troops called him Batko and marched into battle singing Ruthenian (Ukrainian) songs. Pre-nationalist Ukrainians fought the Turks and Muscovites for centuries.

    You do have a point, that nationalism inspires people on all sides to engage in mass mobilization across large areas, and to slaughter one another on a mass scale. The peasants, lords, and priests of the Vendee fought heroically but in the end succumbed to the nationalist masses, who in turned rolled through the Continent.

    This has not been a good thing for Europe. I suppose if, say, the French en masse invade a lot of small German kingdoms and duchies it is a lesser evil for the peoples of those statelets do band together under the inspiration of nationalism and expel the foreign invader then to be conquered piecemeal. But you see that in the long run this has been a negative process for everyone. It eventually led to the catastrophe of the world wars.
  319. @QCIC
    @A123

    No, but I agree these things should be thought through carefully and none of the powers that be can be trusted.

    I give the probabilities as:

    95 % blatant sabotage by the West and friends
    3 % Russia did it to cut loose Germany without looking bad or making payoffs
    2 % some accident as you suggest

    Replies: @A123

    these things should be thought through carefully and none of the powers that be can be trusted.

    Where are you obtaining your information?

    Could it be the “Powers That Be” as you put it?

    I give the probabilities as:

    95 % blatant sabotage by the West and friends

    So… according to the “Powers That Be” (e.g Not-The-President Biden) it is 95% sabotage.

    The fact that I am in opposition should strengthen my hypothesis.

    PEACE 😇

  320. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    appeals to liberalism and universal pacification/conflict elimination, humanity as a political entity etc. can themselves end up a mask for more particular and sectional interests; they end up serving the survival needs of particular families and groups of families.
     
    Well, I think that civilization has always carried that trade-off with it. The widespread, anarchic violence of the tribal societies was reduced by humans organizing themselves in communities where violence was more structured and monopolized by a ruling cast. These elites historically used it in their own interest more than in the interest of their communities but, as AP has often pointed out, our individual chances of getting murdered went dramatically down with these social arrangements.

    I am not too optimistic long-term but I think that the evolution since the Neolithic has been generally positive. In the current advanced societies ordinary people have a historically unprecedented control over how the state executes its monopoly on violence. Sometimes people even use that control in a negative way that actually increases violence and harm to themselves (eg "defund the police", decriminalization of minor felonies because some communities just can't avoid committing them, etc) but in recent times there has also been a regression when it comes to major violence (war) with elites taking these dramatic decisions and people having virtually no say in them. Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty that I wouldn't have imagined only a year ago, even with Russia invading Ukraine.

    Part of the problem may have been that most advanced societies, and particularly the US, abolished general conscription and substituted it with armed forces composed of mercenaries. This was a natural evolution that I've always found positive because it's a much better reflection of society's needs and wishes. We don't want to disarm ourselves in this still violent world but we're not motivated enough to fight for what the leaders of our nation-stated decide are our interest so the mercenary solution is logical. However, this has also brought about a very big problem: our leaders are more prone than before to initiate wars, especially if they are far away from us. Only those who signed a voluntary contract do the dying so they don't need to worry about a discontent population like they had to do in the times of Vietnam. Most people in the US (and possibly in the UK) don't even know where exactly some of their compatriots are killing and dying and don't care too much either.

    Perhaps the US should return to mandatory conscription and then go through another Vietnam experience (there is zero doubt that the people in DC would find another one sooner or later) for things to retake the positive evolution that characterized the second part of the 20th century. That would imperil my son though so I will personally never vote for it.

    Replies: @LatW

    Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty

    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should’ve had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It’s just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:

    “Some 78 percent of Finns have a positive attitude toward NATO membership and more than half are of the opinion that Finland should be open to all cooperation within NATO, including having military bases located inside Finland, according to a survey by the Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA. The survey, released on November 23, said 8 percent of Finns have a negative attitude toward joining the Western security alliance, while 10 percent had a neutral position. In March 2022, when the previous EVA survey on NATO membership was carried out, 60 percent of Finns supported joining.”

    Sweden:

    “By May 2022, nearly 60 percent of the Swedes were in favor of the country joining NATO, and in July 2022, nearly two thirds of the respondents supported the Government’s decision to join the alliance.”

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/660842/survey-on-perception-of-nato-membership-in-sweden/

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @LatW

    It doesn't matter much what opinion polls say at a given moment. Referendums are held so that people can vote on important matters after hearing pro and against arguments and have the time to consider them carefully. Joining NATO is not like joining a wildcat protection treaty. The Swedish and Finish leaders took the decision to paint big nuclear targets over the heads of their citizens at a moment of big outrage without the formality of asking them. Even the Spanish government in the 80s, when Spain was still struggling to leave behind its dictatorial past and was being pressured to join NATO as a condition to be admitted in the Common Market, found it necessary to fulfill that formality.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should’ve had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It’s just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:
     

    Complete nonsense you dumb retard. In a corrupt media landscape with corrupt rigged polling (say like some worthless shithole country, with worthless shithole scumbags as yourself, with a worthless shithole history like Latvia where the media landscape is so controlled and scope for brainwashing is so easy that even the anti-Russian Dozhd is not anti-Russian enough!) - , these "landslides" are irrelevant.

    Its simply a false referendum. When you put a practical question on the referendum, then the true sentiment is revealed. So Ignalina nuclear power plant - it's referendum was basically a practical question of join the EU or keep Ignalina in operation - and the Lithuanians chose Nuclear Power Plant you dumb POS. An actual landslide.

    Of course the Nazi cuckhold tramp Lithuanian authorities rigged the vote by having the Seimas election on the same day and faking the yavka numbers (although the yavka was aligned with previous elections)and making a target requirement for the referendum.

    So dont even pretend you know what the yavka would be for any Scandinavian referendum done with vigourous debate you stupid lowlife.

    Replies: @LatW

  321. @S
    @LatW

    Speaking of which, where are all the normal 30-50 year old nationalists?...
     
    It's a sign of how things have deteriorated. There used to be plenty. See Charles Lindbergh, for example. There is more to it of course. [The United States is complicated :-) .]

    ..I’ve noticed that in the Anglo culture, you get either completely passive men or bigots. Kinds of just two extremes (by Anglo culture, I do not mean the native English culture, or the culture of the peoples of the British Isles, but the so called mass Anglo culture).
     
    You have a very valid point.

    In regards to the Anglosphere, let me first say a couple of things about the United States as I am most familiar with it, and how the US relates to Europe and the rest of the world:



    1) The United States of [North] America/[North] American Union is the model for the rest of the world's continents. What they have done in North America, in regards to continentilization and the forced introduction of wage slavery (ie the early 19th century monetization of chattel slavery and it's trade, specifically referring to the so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system) which is the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state, is what they intend to do (are doing) in Europe and the rest of the world, working towards the goal of a global super-state, the United States of the World/Global Union. If you want to know what's intended for Europe and elsewhere, and how it will be done, and has been done, study US history from it's founding to the present closely.

    2) Not that people in Europe need to be told for the most part, but if you do not like what I have described in point one above, ie Europe and Europeans being modeled upon the United States and it's citizens, along with it's forced wage slavery, ie the so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system, I can only suggest in general not using the same tactics as those in the United States who have themselves resisted certain of these things being promoted by the US. [I cringe when I see Europeans copying the same failed ideas of resistance tried first in the United States, ie 'White Nationalism', and the sick fetishizing of NS Germany, most people in the US being plenty content with a republic, albeit one not economically based on slavery, either chattel or wage, and most also having relatives who had fought against Germany in WWII, my own included, though I don't think the US should have fought in the war.]

    In regards to the two extremes of either 'passivity' or 'bigotry' you have described, there is plenty of reason, though not excuses, for that. The below is a probably not inclusive list of the reasons and not necessarily in their order of importance. As I said, the United States is complicated, besides at times being something of a mass of contradictions. :-)

    1) Since the founding of the United States in 1776, there has been in a sense, two countries, one, an organic ethnically (ie racially) based one which most have probably supported, and a second country supported by powerful elements of the elites and their hangers on, amongst the latter at the founding being chattel slave dealers/owners, often being high level members of secret societies, and who soon will champion wage slavery (ie so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration'), and whom wish the United States to be the very spearhead in the building of a future global super-state or 'empire' as they call it. The latter country, with it's visions of a global empire and reliance on slavery, either chattel or wage, is wholly at odds with an ethnically/racially based organic identity for a country. These two country's have been at war with each other, the odds tending to be against the former organically based identity/non-slavery engaging country succeeding, and in favor of the slavery based/empire seeking one.

    2) If a person doesn't have some reasonably good idea what the people at the high levels of the secret societies (which have historically permeated US culture) are up to, Freemasons in particular, they will be operating in the blind, and won't have much of a chance of success. Unfortunately, almost everyone in the US has a relative, friend, or acquaintance, that was (or sometimes, is) a member of one of these societies, though often very low level. Should you attempt to inform many of these persons about the secret societies, their response is often 'My friend John is one. He's a good egg.', or, 'Uncle Jack was a member. Salt of the Earth!', etc, and that’s as far as it goes with a good number of these people on what is in reality a quite important subject. Without understanding in regards to the secret societies, particularly their high levels, a person fights he knows not what.

    3) The near complete failure to this very day to have not recognized that chattel slavery and it's trade, in accordance with the tenet of Capitalism to maximize profits, had been monetized rather than 'abolished' in the early 19th century with the introduction by diktat in the Anglosphere countries of wage slavery, ie specifically the so called 'cheap labor'/'mass immigration' system, the economic and political basis of the modern progressive Multi-Cultural state as modeled by the Anglosphere.

    4) The long term dysfunctional relationship which has existed between the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples, ultimately quite unhealthy and destructive for both parties, and the failure to have amicably (if at all possible) to have separated from each other. No matter how tempting it might be, it's very unhealthy for one people to allow another people, no matter how well meaning, to 'handle it's affairs', just as an individual cannot in any healthy manner allow another individual, no matter how well meaning, to run his or her own life. This error has been compounded with the unfortunate (and absurd) ideology of British Israelism. A sensitive subject, but due to the longterm dysfunctional nature of the Anglo-Saxon - Jewish relationship, if a person wants insight into the Jewish state of Israel, study closely the Anglo-Saxon United States, if a person wants insight into the Anglo-Saxon United States, study the Jewish state of Israel.

    I should add, that today a great percentage of the US population is not so much propagandized, but rather brainwashed, which helps to explain in part the 'passivity'.

    Those who sense something is amiss and wish to do something, but not understanding the four points I made above, amongst other things besides for sure, ie not understanding about the secret socieities and their relationship to the United States and the world, not understanding about slavery not in reality being abolished, but still being with us in its monetized form, wage slavery, ie so called 'cheap labor', not understanding the long term dysfunctional relationship, bad ultimately for both, between the Anglo-Saxon and Jewish peoples, etc, are fighting blind, and therefore frustrated and angry, and it shows in the 'bigotry' you describe.

    I should add, besides being proper, it's the easiest thing in the world to be civil, cordial, and mutually respectful with one another, and to not engage in name calling and racial epithets. It's an unwelcome distraction to resolving very real problems between peoples. Those who can't refrain from that behaviour should be asked to leave.

    In addition to that, there is a powerful moral case on the side of those not wishing to partake of the planned world state/empire, ie the New Rome, or, the United States of the World, and it's slavery based economic and political system, much as there was against the original ancient Rome. Indeed, the anti slavery, anti-genocide, and anti-empire, moral case against it, is far superior to the so called 'progressive' moral case for it.

    Why besmirch it with anything?

    As a related aside, a great many of my posts at this site are related to the history of the United States and Britain, and their historic relationship, much of it not as well known as it ought to be, and hence why I post on the subject. Indeed, if I were ever to collate them, something I don't intend to do, I might, just to humor myself, call it The Secret History of the United States and United Kingdom. :-D

    None of it is intended to bash anyone, Anglo-Saxon or otherwise.

    When the Fall of Capitalism likely takes place, ie the impending economic and political collapse of the United States and it's Western bloc, the internal archives of the United States in Washington DC might be opened for a time, just as those in Moscow were for a short period when the Fall of Communism took place.

    Having some of these 'secrets' revealed a little early for society's perusal might be of some use to some people of goodwill ...maybe. :-)

    Replies: @LatW

    Since the founding of the United States in 1776, there has been in a sense, two countries, one, an organic ethnically (ie racially) based one which most have probably supported, and a second country supported by powerful elements of the elites and their hangers on, amongst the latter at the founding being chattel slave dealers/owners, often being high level members of secret societies, and who soon will champion wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’), and whom wish the United States to be the very spearhead in the building of a future global super-state or ’empire’ as they call it.

    Well, who were these elements exactly…? Are you saying George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?

    Btw, many decent size American cities have a Free Mason lodge, usually a church like building. But they are not as “influential” or popular as they once were I guess. Maybe they moved to banker circles or top levels of biggest corporations, or something?

    • Replies: @A123
    @LatW


    George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?
     
    George was among the wealthiest men in America. He owned ~100 mi² of productive farmland. As a comparison Manhattan is only ~25 mi². He convinced the French government to come in on the side of the American Revolution.

    Am I glad that he did what he did? Yes.

    Was George an elity elistest of elitedom? You bet.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @LatW

  322. Anyone notice that developed countries’ fertility rates are a function of how controlling the parents are of their adult children? No wonder China is sterile before rich.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Israel has the highest secular birth rate of a developed country:

    However, as a rule, people leave the nest either as soon as they get drafted (18), or when they go to college (~21), and rarely after that.

    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low. It isn't so much a function of house prices, but of culture encouraging parents to keep their adult children as "respectful" children.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Gerard1234

  323. @LatW
    @Mikel


    Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty
     
    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should've had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It's just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:

    "Some 78 percent of Finns have a positive attitude toward NATO membership and more than half are of the opinion that Finland should be open to all cooperation within NATO, including having military bases located inside Finland, according to a survey by the Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA. The survey, released on November 23, said 8 percent of Finns have a negative attitude toward joining the Western security alliance, while 10 percent had a neutral position. In March 2022, when the previous EVA survey on NATO membership was carried out, 60 percent of Finns supported joining."

    Sweden:

    "By May 2022, nearly 60 percent of the Swedes were in favor of the country joining NATO, and in July 2022, nearly two thirds of the respondents supported the Government's decision to join the alliance."

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/660842/survey-on-perception-of-nato-membership-in-sweden/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

    It doesn’t matter much what opinion polls say at a given moment. Referendums are held so that people can vote on important matters after hearing pro and against arguments and have the time to consider them carefully. Joining NATO is not like joining a wildcat protection treaty. The Swedish and Finish leaders took the decision to paint big nuclear targets over the heads of their citizens at a moment of big outrage without the formality of asking them. Even the Spanish government in the 80s, when Spain was still struggling to leave behind its dictatorial past and was being pressured to join NATO as a condition to be admitted in the Common Market, found it necessary to fulfill that formality.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Mikel

    I'm not arguing against the referendum. I'd support the idea.

    I'm saying that the decision is still essentially democratic (Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency, one of the biggest Swedish parties, the Moderaterna have supported NATO membership for years, their militaries have also worked in concert with NATO militaries for years, especially in Sweden's case). Also, the way the political culture works in Scandinavia is that, had the population asked for a referendum, loud enough, it would have been carried out.

    If a referendum was held today, the results would be in favor of NATO - it's been a year since the invasion started, a year would have been long enough to debate. The result would be the same in a hypothetical referendum as is shown in those polls.

    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians' attitudes, because the world has now changed. It's not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Greasy William

  324. @Leaves No Shadow
    Anyone notice that developed countries' fertility rates are a function of how controlling the parents are of their adult children? No wonder China is sterile before rich.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Israel has the highest secular birth rate of a developed country:

    However, as a rule, people leave the nest either as soon as they get drafted (18), or when they go to college (~21), and rarely after that.

    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low. It isn’t so much a function of house prices, but of culture encouraging parents to keep their adult children as “respectful” children.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Let the longhouse traditionalists weep. Their moralistic nagging is rendering the societies they claim to save barren. Such people castrate their children even worse than the gender goblins. Mommie dearest is why she gets no grandchildren, and her cowardly husband, unable make her take her claws off her kids, is no less responsible. Trads could never understand this, because they want to enforce this. Calling things "degenerate" is just ventriloquism by their neurotic mother.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Gerard1234
    @Leaves No Shadow


    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low.
     
    But one set are relatively multi-ethnic countries - the last four are relatively homogenous monoethnic with much older populations? As far as I can see both groups listed have the same problems but the older age distribution is bigger in the last 4. I can't speak for Korea and Japan but for Italy and Spain, UK, US, France and Scandinavia - are not the grandparents looking after the grandchildren far more than previous generations did? Women employment trends ( similiarish to Soviet trends) in the west caused by feminism and service-based economy are keeping fertility down. I also think that maybe its the inverse - parents are having to sacrifice more for their adult children than ever before? I get the impression from some westerners I know (admittedly low sample and possibly a problem all over the world) that the parents are fitting their housing requirements to the needs of their adult children, not vice-versa . House-communal home, mortgage , money from sale of house from the parents etc are issues driven and dictated by the lifestyle choices of their adult children! If grandparents were living at home of their adult children and grandchildren , then I honestly think fertility would significantly improve . I suspect this is structure of most Indian families in the west, and I assume they have high fertility, although much lower than the extreme rates inside India.
  325. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Israel has the highest secular birth rate of a developed country:

    However, as a rule, people leave the nest either as soon as they get drafted (18), or when they go to college (~21), and rarely after that.

    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low. It isn't so much a function of house prices, but of culture encouraging parents to keep their adult children as "respectful" children.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Gerard1234

    Let the longhouse traditionalists weep. Their moralistic nagging is rendering the societies they claim to save barren. Such people castrate their children even worse than the gender goblins. Mommie dearest is why she gets no grandchildren, and her cowardly husband, unable make her take her claws off her kids, is no less responsible. Trads could never understand this, because they want to enforce this. Calling things “degenerate” is just ventriloquism by their neurotic mother.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    That voice in your head? Just cut it off.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

  326. @LatW
    @S


    Since the founding of the United States in 1776, there has been in a sense, two countries, one, an organic ethnically (ie racially) based one which most have probably supported, and a second country supported by powerful elements of the elites and their hangers on, amongst the latter at the founding being chattel slave dealers/owners, often being high level members of secret societies, and who soon will champion wage slavery (ie so called ‘cheap labor’/’mass immigration’), and whom wish the United States to be the very spearhead in the building of a future global super-state or ’empire’ as they call it.
     
    Well, who were these elements exactly...? Are you saying George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?

    Btw, many decent size American cities have a Free Mason lodge, usually a church like building. But they are not as "influential" or popular as they once were I guess. Maybe they moved to banker circles or top levels of biggest corporations, or something?

    Replies: @A123

    George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?

    George was among the wealthiest men in America. He owned ~100 mi² of productive farmland. As a comparison Manhattan is only ~25 mi². He convinced the French government to come in on the side of the American Revolution.

    Am I glad that he did what he did? Yes.

    Was George an elity elistest of elitedom? You bet.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @LatW
    @A123

    Of course, George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other "native" New England group, like S claims. I need to pick up that Third Rome book that he recommended.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @S

  327. @Mikel
    @LatW

    It doesn't matter much what opinion polls say at a given moment. Referendums are held so that people can vote on important matters after hearing pro and against arguments and have the time to consider them carefully. Joining NATO is not like joining a wildcat protection treaty. The Swedish and Finish leaders took the decision to paint big nuclear targets over the heads of their citizens at a moment of big outrage without the formality of asking them. Even the Spanish government in the 80s, when Spain was still struggling to leave behind its dictatorial past and was being pressured to join NATO as a condition to be admitted in the Common Market, found it necessary to fulfill that formality.

    Replies: @LatW

    I’m not arguing against the referendum. I’d support the idea.

    I’m saying that the decision is still essentially democratic (Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency, one of the biggest Swedish parties, the Moderaterna have supported NATO membership for years, their militaries have also worked in concert with NATO militaries for years, especially in Sweden’s case). Also, the way the political culture works in Scandinavia is that, had the population asked for a referendum, loud enough, it would have been carried out.

    If a referendum was held today, the results would be in favor of NATO – it’s been a year since the invasion started, a year would have been long enough to debate. The result would be the same in a hypothetical referendum as is shown in those polls.

    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians’ attitudes, because the world has now changed. It’s not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @LatW


    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians’ attitudes, because the world has now changed. It’s not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.
     
    I don't know much about Scandinavian societies but my limited knowledge is that they have well-established democratic habits but are not particularly rebellious and are subject to political correctness and MSM brainwashing as much as anyone else in the West. The obvious purpose of joining a defensive alliance is to increase your security but the chances of Russia attacking Sweden or Finland after their disastrous invasion of Ukraine are ~0. And they would have been essentially the same if Russia had been successful. By contrast, their joining NATO (even if Turkey keeps them waiting for a long time) puts them at immediate risk of receiving a nuclear attack in the unlikely event that Russia did decide to go beyond Ukraine and attack much more likely objectives than themselves.

    In summary, yes, they did have the luxury of remaining neutral, just as Switzerland or Austria have done, and I suspect that the decision to join NATO was fueled more by the emotion of the moment than any rational consideration. Another sign of how things are changing for the worse, East and West.

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency
     
    People don't have agency and are basically children. They think whatever their elites tell them to think. Swedes and Finns are certainly no exception.
  328. @A123
    @LatW


    George Washington too since he came from a rich planter family in Virginia?
     
    George was among the wealthiest men in America. He owned ~100 mi² of productive farmland. As a comparison Manhattan is only ~25 mi². He convinced the French government to come in on the side of the American Revolution.

    Am I glad that he did what he did? Yes.

    Was George an elity elistest of elitedom? You bet.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @LatW

    Of course, George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other “native” New England group, like S claims. I need to pick up that Third Rome book that he recommended.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @LatW

    There are various arguments made on Fash-The-Nation about Washington's financial connections to Chaim Solomon, Washington's own Jew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haym_Salomon

    "During his adult travels in Western Europe, Salomon acquired a knowledge of finance and fluency in some of the languages of the day. He returned to Poland in 1770 but left for England two years later in the wake of the Polish partition. In 1775, he immigrated to New York City, where he established himself as a financial broker for merchants engaged in overseas trade."


    Who oddly enough got on quite well with the CD Polska Intersex Schlachta...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski

    https://fash-the-nation.libsyn.com/ftnf-sellout-nation

    , @A123
    @LatW


    George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other “native” New England group, like S claims.
     
    Of course not.

    George Washington had a non-secret powerful group. And, that was leveraged by the French government. He had no need for a "secret elite group" acting against his own New England interests.

    There are semi-credible suggestions that George was looking to emulate the English monarchy to displace (a.k.a. bribe) the Quakers out of Pennsylvania. However, that did not take place.

    PEACE 😇

    , @S
    @LatW

    I can't speak specifically about George Washington, though he was a Freemason and probably pretty high level. What I've described is what would be called a cabal, and whether a person be a member of royalty, a secret society, or a business elite, not every member of these groups necessarily knows what is going on within the cabal, or, even knows that it [the cabal] exist.



    The effectively blacklisted New Rome linked below and published in 1853, though a bit dry in places, has the basics of what appears to have in reality happened in regards to the United States and the 1776 Revolution...ie 1776 was a planned false split, an act of strategic deception, in that the British 'threw' the war in favor of the nascent US. In time the US and UK (as planned) will rejoin to make a practically unbeatable united front.

    This new US/UK united front once formed will first move to conquer Germany, thereby unleashing a 'world's war'. Immediately following the US/UK conquest of Germany, they will move against Russia, and according to the book defeat it by way of the powerful US air force. Then will come the United States of the World.

    The second link just below is to A Political Prophecy published in 1913, the companion booklet to the New Rome.

    https://archive.org/details/newrome00poes/page/n16/mode/2up

    https://archive.org/details/politicalprophec00goeb_0/page/n1/mode/2up

    If you do read the New Rome, it might be better to first read the two essays published below, which fill in the details the New Rome book leaves out. They describe in detail the long range plans developed by London (specifically the powerful British Board of Trade) in the decades prior to 1776 for British North America, plans which dovetail perfectly with the New Rome book, namely that the United States is to be the planned direct continuation of the British Empire. [Neither of the two essays mention the little known 1853 New Rome book.]

    The site which host the two essays, the outstanding Belcher Foundation, is dedicated to the preservation of the memory and lifework of Jonathan Belcher, prominent British Royal colonial governor, founder of Princeton University, and first North American born British Freemason. [Though the site owner doesn't say so, he is almost certainly a Freemason, perhaps a very high level one.]

    https://belcherfoundation.org/camerica.htm

    https://belcherfoundation.org/trilateral_governor.htm

    A bonus Belcher Foundation essay on the involvement of Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson in orchestrating the proto-Communist French Revolution of 1789. This fits the known historic record perfectly. Thomas Paine also took part in the French Revolution.

    https://belcherfoundation.org/trilateral_center.htm

  329. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Let the longhouse traditionalists weep. Their moralistic nagging is rendering the societies they claim to save barren. Such people castrate their children even worse than the gender goblins. Mommie dearest is why she gets no grandchildren, and her cowardly husband, unable make her take her claws off her kids, is no less responsible. Trads could never understand this, because they want to enforce this. Calling things "degenerate" is just ventriloquism by their neurotic mother.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    That voice in your head? Just cut it off.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    No thanks, Norman Bates



    https://youtu.be/NG3-GlvKPcg

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Wokechoke

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8vd8gqmvbQ&ab_channel=ScreamFactoryTV

  330. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    That voice in your head? Just cut it off.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    No thanks, Norman Bates

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I was thinking you are more like this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRqXBsgnYok


    But If you are more Norman bates that'll do too. But that voice in your head, just cut it off.

  331. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Israel has the highest secular birth rate of a developed country:

    However, as a rule, people leave the nest either as soon as they get drafted (18), or when they go to college (~21), and rarely after that.

    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low. It isn't so much a function of house prices, but of culture encouraging parents to keep their adult children as "respectful" children.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Gerard1234

    United States, UK, France, and Scandinavia are relatively high. Korea, Japan, Italy and Spain are low.

    But one set are relatively multi-ethnic countries – the last four are relatively homogenous monoethnic with much older populations? As far as I can see both groups listed have the same problems but the older age distribution is bigger in the last 4. I can’t speak for Korea and Japan but for Italy and Spain, UK, US, France and Scandinavia – are not the grandparents looking after the grandchildren far more than previous generations did? Women employment trends ( similiarish to Soviet trends) in the west caused by feminism and service-based economy are keeping fertility down. I also think that maybe its the inverse – parents are having to sacrifice more for their adult children than ever before? I get the impression from some westerners I know (admittedly low sample and possibly a problem all over the world) that the parents are fitting their housing requirements to the needs of their adult children, not vice-versa . House-communal home, mortgage , money from sale of house from the parents etc are issues driven and dictated by the lifestyle choices of their adult children! If grandparents were living at home of their adult children and grandchildren , then I honestly think fertility would significantly improve . I suspect this is structure of most Indian families in the west, and I assume they have high fertility, although much lower than the extreme rates inside India.

    • Agree: Yevardian
  332. @LatW
    @A123

    Of course, George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other "native" New England group, like S claims. I need to pick up that Third Rome book that he recommended.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @S

    There are various arguments made on Fash-The-Nation about Washington’s financial connections to Chaim Solomon, Washington’s own Jew.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haym_Salomon

    “During his adult travels in Western Europe, Salomon acquired a knowledge of finance and fluency in some of the languages of the day. He returned to Poland in 1770 but left for England two years later in the wake of the Polish partition. In 1775, he immigrated to New York City, where he established himself as a financial broker for merchants engaged in overseas trade.”

    Who oddly enough got on quite well with the CD Polska Intersex Schlachta…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski

    https://fash-the-nation.libsyn.com/ftnf-sellout-nation

  333. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    That voice in your head? Just cut it off.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Emil Nikola Richard

    • LOL: Wokechoke
  334. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    No thanks, Norman Bates



    https://youtu.be/NG3-GlvKPcg

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    I was thinking you are more like this…

    But If you are more Norman bates that’ll do too. But that voice in your head, just cut it off.

  335. @LatW
    @Mikel


    Finland and Sweden (of all countries) joining NATO with no referendums is a travesty
     
    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should've had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It's just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:

    "Some 78 percent of Finns have a positive attitude toward NATO membership and more than half are of the opinion that Finland should be open to all cooperation within NATO, including having military bases located inside Finland, according to a survey by the Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA. The survey, released on November 23, said 8 percent of Finns have a negative attitude toward joining the Western security alliance, while 10 percent had a neutral position. In March 2022, when the previous EVA survey on NATO membership was carried out, 60 percent of Finns supported joining."

    Sweden:

    "By May 2022, nearly 60 percent of the Swedes were in favor of the country joining NATO, and in July 2022, nearly two thirds of the respondents supported the Government's decision to join the alliance."

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/660842/survey-on-perception-of-nato-membership-in-sweden/

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should’ve had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It’s just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:

    Complete nonsense you dumb retard. In a corrupt media landscape with corrupt rigged polling (say like some worthless shithole country, with worthless shithole scumbags as yourself, with a worthless shithole history like Latvia where the media landscape is so controlled and scope for brainwashing is so easy that even the anti-Russian Dozhd is not anti-Russian enough!) – , these “landslides” are irrelevant.

    Its simply a false referendum. When you put a practical question on the referendum, then the true sentiment is revealed. So Ignalina nuclear power plant – it’s referendum was basically a practical question of join the EU or keep Ignalina in operation – and the Lithuanians chose Nuclear Power Plant you dumb POS. An actual landslide.

    Of course the Nazi cuckhold tramp Lithuanian authorities rigged the vote by having the Seimas election on the same day and faking the yavka numbers (although the yavka was aligned with previous elections)and making a target requirement for the referendum.

    So dont even pretend you know what the yavka would be for any Scandinavian referendum done with vigourous debate you stupid lowlife.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Gerard1234


    the media landscape is so controlled and scope for brainwashing is so easy that even the anti-Russian Dozhd is not anti-Russian enough!
     
    Dozhd started to promote fund raisers to supply the Russian military in Ukraine so that they could murder Ukrainians more efficiently. If that's what they want to do, they can do it in Russia. Plus, they started meddling with our internal affairs. It is not their place. This is all very sad and unfortunate. Dozhd departed in good spirit, though, thanking Latvia for giving them platform during a rough time.

    I don't wish ill on Dozhd, even if they are gay liberals. They have some quality reporting and some cute moderators.

    So dont even pretend you know what the yavka would be for any Scandinavian referendum done with vigourous debate
     
    We know this very well because it's an open and fair society unlike Vatastan. Just go and ask the Nords themselves. Also, ask them what they think about Vatastan. And you might want to lay off the vodichka. They don't have any respect for rabid impulsive cussing.
  336. @LatW
    @A123

    Of course, George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other "native" New England group, like S claims. I need to pick up that Third Rome book that he recommended.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @S

    George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other “native” New England group, like S claims.

    Of course not.

    George Washington had a non-secret powerful group. And, that was leveraged by the French government. He had no need for a “secret elite group” acting against his own New England interests.

    There are semi-credible suggestions that George was looking to emulate the English monarchy to displace (a.k.a. bribe) the Quakers out of Pennsylvania. However, that did not take place.

    PEACE 😇

  337. @LatW
    @songbird


    IMO, you must look West and seek to prevent what happened there, and it requires more than optimism and resolve.
     
    The negative sides of the West in this regard are quite well known and visible. I often catch myself looking at things and saying to myself "This is what the EEs do not need".

    It requires vigilence, tactics, and strategy. Organization, and mechanism.

     

    Where did I say otherwise? Above I described a very important aspect - that of the public bureaucracy. Stating that ideology is not enough - and that's assuming we even manage to instill the right ideology - enforcement is even more important. There need to be not only strict laws, but also vigilence over bureaucrats who deal with immigration because too much depends on them. Immigration laws should be highly selective. I would even go as far as to say there needs to be a questioning of how the labor force is managed. This will affect the finances (if we need to be poorer, but more homogeneously European, then so be it).

    And I hope you will not be so dismissive of us Western Euros as to think that we wanted to give up our identity. Honestly, to a large extent, it has been usurped. We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.
     
    I think that part of it has been the ambition of Western Euros to strive for eternal progress and to take as much advantage as one can from that progress, especially economically, financially. A tribal state (or an ethnic mono-state, not just linguistic) is looked down upon not just because it seems "primitive" or "backward" but because a tribal state is not as competitive because it has to rely on limited resources (its own people). Even large mono-states often use foreigners to improve their wellbeing.

    We may not all recognize the claims of the usurpers, but it is easy to recognize their level of success.
     
    The problem is that the local population gives in too easily (don't appear to care enough). And those who do care don't really have the means to operate safely in defense of their values.

    The promotion of terms, like ‘white Irish’ and ‘white British.’
     
    These are terrible terms that I find offensive. I understand why they were introduced, but it's still not great. It should NEVER be used as a template for EE in the distant future. Or maybe not so distant...

    Once, ‘American’ even meant something highly specific. In the dictionary, for American, it said ‘white person’, but that was really just shorthand for a narrow circle of the world, NW Europe, where we had a lot in common culturally and genetically.
     
    Right, but again I must return to what I said above - self-sufficiency. This diligent nation that colonized so successfully (and by the way colonization wasn't easy, one didn't just come over and plop down on fertile soil, the colonists dealt with major challenges - weather, hard work, Indian ambushes, etc)... they didn't manage to be self-sufficient in the end in a sense that once you have larger ambitions to grow as a nation, to the extent that they wanted to, you move away from the core and assimilate other groups. You change your ideology from ethno nationalism and strong attachment to your religious denomination to the idea of a "political nation".

    I don’t think anyone really wanted to give that up – actual meaning to the word, an ethnic label – but it has been usurped.
     
    You have to chose. Either you are smaller and more self-sufficient (even while popping out 7 babies as the colonist women did at one point but it is still not enough to populate the whole continent). Or you dilute to some extent. If you stay in your more contained form, you will eventually have to compete for space because others will take up your neighboring space.


    And it is funny to see all sorts of genetically distant people, alien-looking and acting, unalike in every conceivable way, and severely wanting in some, demand that Chinese and Japanese recognize them as Americans, and portray them as such.
     
    Yes, I know what you mean. I want to support you but I have to defer my response here because it is not my place to tell Americans how they should be or what constitutes an American.

    What loyalty have they shown us? And yet they want our identity, and indeed have robbed us of it to a very large extent.
     
    I think it depends, I think originally many groups showed great loyalty. Even Obama wrote in his book that some immigrants are now "entitled" (as opposed to the ones in the past who weren't).

    As to identity, some people just don't care about assimilating, they're ok with just speaking English (they care more about the material side of their children's life, good education, good nutrition, better work options). You feel that they have done it at your expense, but you need to take it up not with them but with those above you who made those decisions to not be a self-sufficient nation. And I understand how helpless you feel because you were never the one to make those decisions.

    I'm starting to have similar feelings regards my beloved Baltics as well. After 2016, we saw an influx of capital which created a lot of jobs and an increase in living standard. All of a sudden, we start seeing it. Mostly subcons though, but still... and I caught myself thinking, oh, you came here now, where were you when we had it really sh*tty? When we had it rough. You didn't care about us back then, did you. But now all of a sudden when the GDP rises above a certain level, you're readily available. I don't want to be mean but it ticks me off. And it's not the fault of these people but the damn businesses who brought them in. Then you end up desiring economic slowdown so this stops or slows down. But you cannot rely on that, but need to have a systemic approach when managing these population changes.
    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.

    This is why I tell you that I think that identity is important, and you need a strong conception of it, which must extend beyond the spiritual and into the physical. Into public organizations with resources, intelligence and hierarchy. Perhaps, I am preaching to the choir, but just so you don’t misunderstand my meaning.
     
    I'm in agreement with you, 110%!

    Replies: @songbird

    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.

    Latw, I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe. Imagine seeing someone who looks like Idi Amin, Jr. commiserating with someone who looks like Papa Doc III about the difficulty of their Irish lessions.

    [MORE]

    Imagine going to the Gaeltacht, that remote part of Ireland where the language held on by its fingernails, and seeing a chorus of teenage girls perform Adele’s horrible pop songs translated into Irish, with subcons among them, and a guy on the piano, who is so strange-looking that you, with an interest in geopolitics and HBD cannot even identify his ethnic origin. Part non-Javanese Indonesian, and part Papuan?

    (All within walking distance, of half your family roots.)

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies. There is a movie Black ’47 which I liked, only because it had a bit of Irish in it, and would have probably disliked otherwise. I liked the star of it, even though he was technically not Irish (he may have been part), he certainly looked the part.

    But I tell you LatW, I don’t like to see those scions of African dictators complaining about their Irish lessons, or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    As much as I love it, I would trade its very trace memory, its every written record, to send them away, and keep them out.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    She's unreal.

    , @LatW
    @songbird


    I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe.
     
    Trust me, I understand. It is beyond horror. The biggest horror is the imminent thought of the finality of it.

    In the case of Ireland it sucks particularly because it is a small nation that barely salvaged its language.

    Imagine some rich minority, let's say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I'd flip. That's why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state. Then you can cut in its root. If you're lucky, given the global demographic reality.

    or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.
     
    That is quite peculiar though. A rarity, I would imagine. Would they have arrived from someplace around Oceania? Papua New Guinea? Poor Denisovans, they were absorbed.

    But this just goes to show how widespread this immigration to Ireland has become when you get even such rare types. It's not the fault of these foreign people, it's the fault of the ruling classes.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Sher Singh

    , @S
    @songbird


    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies.
     
    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.


    https://youtu.be/aUsIYDcDo28

    Hopkin at age 18 singing Turn, Turn, Turn...

    https://youtu.be/5dJQR1bBFvM

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

  338. @songbird
    @LatW


    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.
     
    Latw, I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe. Imagine seeing someone who looks like Idi Amin, Jr. commiserating with someone who looks like Papa Doc III about the difficulty of their Irish lessions.

    Imagine going to the Gaeltacht, that remote part of Ireland where the language held on by its fingernails, and seeing a chorus of teenage girls perform Adele's horrible pop songs translated into Irish, with subcons among them, and a guy on the piano, who is so strange-looking that you, with an interest in geopolitics and HBD cannot even identify his ethnic origin. Part non-Javanese Indonesian, and part Papuan?

    (All within walking distance, of half your family roots.)

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies. There is a movie Black '47 which I liked, only because it had a bit of Irish in it, and would have probably disliked otherwise. I liked the star of it, even though he was technically not Irish (he may have been part), he certainly looked the part.

    But I tell you LatW, I don't like to see those scions of African dictators complaining about their Irish lessons, or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    As much as I love it, I would trade its very trace memory, its every written record, to send them away, and keep them out.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @S

    She’s unreal.

  339. @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    The accession to NATO without a referendum when this is done by a pure executive decision is usually in cases where there is a predominant consensus in favor of the alliance.

    Of course, the Finns and the Swedes should’ve had a longer debate about this at least formally, instead of just jumping on it as a response to Russian aggression. However, they have technically had this debate for years and years. It’s just that all it took was one major geopolitical event for them to realize where they are. If they held a referendum, it would be a landslide in favor of NATO:
     

    Complete nonsense you dumb retard. In a corrupt media landscape with corrupt rigged polling (say like some worthless shithole country, with worthless shithole scumbags as yourself, with a worthless shithole history like Latvia where the media landscape is so controlled and scope for brainwashing is so easy that even the anti-Russian Dozhd is not anti-Russian enough!) - , these "landslides" are irrelevant.

    Its simply a false referendum. When you put a practical question on the referendum, then the true sentiment is revealed. So Ignalina nuclear power plant - it's referendum was basically a practical question of join the EU or keep Ignalina in operation - and the Lithuanians chose Nuclear Power Plant you dumb POS. An actual landslide.

    Of course the Nazi cuckhold tramp Lithuanian authorities rigged the vote by having the Seimas election on the same day and faking the yavka numbers (although the yavka was aligned with previous elections)and making a target requirement for the referendum.

    So dont even pretend you know what the yavka would be for any Scandinavian referendum done with vigourous debate you stupid lowlife.

    Replies: @LatW

    the media landscape is so controlled and scope for brainwashing is so easy that even the anti-Russian Dozhd is not anti-Russian enough!

    Dozhd started to promote fund raisers to supply the Russian military in Ukraine so that they could murder Ukrainians more efficiently. If that’s what they want to do, they can do it in Russia. Plus, they started meddling with our internal affairs. It is not their place. This is all very sad and unfortunate. Dozhd departed in good spirit, though, thanking Latvia for giving them platform during a rough time.

    I don’t wish ill on Dozhd, even if they are gay liberals. They have some quality reporting and some cute moderators.

    So dont even pretend you know what the yavka would be for any Scandinavian referendum done with vigourous debate

    We know this very well because it’s an open and fair society unlike Vatastan. Just go and ask the Nords themselves. Also, ask them what they think about Vatastan. And you might want to lay off the vodichka. They don’t have any respect for rabid impulsive cussing.

  340. @LatW
    @Mikel

    I'm not arguing against the referendum. I'd support the idea.

    I'm saying that the decision is still essentially democratic (Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency, one of the biggest Swedish parties, the Moderaterna have supported NATO membership for years, their militaries have also worked in concert with NATO militaries for years, especially in Sweden's case). Also, the way the political culture works in Scandinavia is that, had the population asked for a referendum, loud enough, it would have been carried out.

    If a referendum was held today, the results would be in favor of NATO - it's been a year since the invasion started, a year would have been long enough to debate. The result would be the same in a hypothetical referendum as is shown in those polls.

    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians' attitudes, because the world has now changed. It's not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Greasy William

    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians’ attitudes, because the world has now changed. It’s not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.

    I don’t know much about Scandinavian societies but my limited knowledge is that they have well-established democratic habits but are not particularly rebellious and are subject to political correctness and MSM brainwashing as much as anyone else in the West. The obvious purpose of joining a defensive alliance is to increase your security but the chances of Russia attacking Sweden or Finland after their disastrous invasion of Ukraine are ~0. And they would have been essentially the same if Russia had been successful. By contrast, their joining NATO (even if Turkey keeps them waiting for a long time) puts them at immediate risk of receiving a nuclear attack in the unlikely event that Russia did decide to go beyond Ukraine and attack much more likely objectives than themselves.

    In summary, yes, they did have the luxury of remaining neutral, just as Switzerland or Austria have done, and I suspect that the decision to join NATO was fueled more by the emotion of the moment than any rational consideration. Another sign of how things are changing for the worse, East and West.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Mikel


    but are not particularly rebellious and are subject to political correctness and MSM brainwashing as much as anyone else in the West.
     
    They are actually quite rational and long term planners. You are trying to portray them as some sheeple, which they are not.

    but the chances of Russia attacking Sweden or Finland after their disastrous invasion of Ukraine are ~0
     
    They have billions worth of long term investments in the Baltic states, which would be lost if Russia invaded there. Or if they destabilized the region. They have always distrusted Russia, they just didn't openly show it.

    I mean, look at PewDiePie's ridiculous "Slav videos" (which, while somewhat funny, are a bit one sided).

    Of course, it doesn't mean they had to join NATO.

    By contrast, their joining NATO (even if Turkey keeps them waiting for a long time) puts them at immediate risk of receiving a nuclear attack in the unlikely event that Russia did decide to go beyond Ukraine and attack much more likely objectives than themselves.
     
    In the case of a nuclear strike (very unlikely), the North would not be the first target. The North would get off relatively lightly. Unless the Arctic had been fully taken over which is not any time soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-DYWuet60
  341. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Our mind is designed for these societies of 80 people
     
    Why do you think our evolution stopped 20,000 years ago?

    In most of Europe, Middle East, and Asia people have lived in populated agricultural communities for thousands of years and in urban environments for many hundreds of years.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    Humans in the fertile crescent invented farming around 500 generations, while most of our ancestors have farming for significantly less. For example, in Northern Europe, there was rejection of agriculture for thousands of years in Neolithic time.

    This is just talking about farming –

    500 generations vs 1000,000,000,000 of generations of evolution. (Even for human history, farming is only 500 vs 8000 generations, but most of our adaptations were from the prehuman history)

    From any quantitative view, evolution on first side of this “vs” will not very nonsignificant, relative to the other side.

    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.

    Writing was invented by Sumerians around 200 generations past. For many of our ancestors only had experience of writing for 4-8 generations. Humans were living for over 8000 generations without writing and the pre-humans (which is most of our adaptations for the environment) 1000,000,000,000 of generations without writing.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry

    Evolution moves much faster under man-made conditions then under natural ones. Compare the diverse dog breeds created through unnatural human intervention, to natural wolves who have changed much less and more slowly. So humans who started to engage in agriculture and living in densely populated societies, and then in towns and cities, seafaring, etc. with increasingly complex economic and social relationships can be expected to have evolved much more quickly in only a few thousand years than had their ancestors who had engaged in the same more natural Hunter-gatherer lifestyle over 40,000 years.

    Of course there are limits. Industrial society is only 100-150 years old for most populations. We probably have not yet adjusted to that, and even more so to post-industrial technological society. As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    , @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.
     
    Greg Cochran and Henry Harpending would dispute this assertion. In their book they state that evolutionary pressures accelerated after the development of agriculture; at a rate of 100 times more than the long-term average of the previous 6 million years. The reason is because agriculture supported larger and more dense human settlements; which meant favorable mutations would occur more often. Mutation generation is a function of population size. 60,000 years ago, there were approximately 250,000 modern humans. By the Bronze Age, 3,000 years ago, that number was roughly 60 million. Favorable mutations that had previously occurred every 100,000 years or so were by the Bronze Age showing up every 400 years. The mutations would then spread quickly among the population, no matter how large, because mutations increase in frequency exponentially.

    The agricultural revolution exerted new environmental challenges for humans; which by natural selection we became adapted to. For example; the farming diet was a lot more carbohydrate intensive, alcoholic, and vitamin-deficient than hunter-gatherer diets. This lead to an increase in prevalence of diabetes, acne, tooth aces and alcoholism. People who had genetic variants who could help them deal with these side effects were more likely to survive and pass their genes down. Even a single copy of an advantageous gene could spread rapidly if it conferred a marginally significant survival advantage. That was the case for the alleles regulating skin color (SLC24A5), eye color (HERC2), lactose tolerance (LCT), and dry earwax (ABCC11).

    The allele SLC24A5 came into existence only 5,800 years ago; but it has a frequency of about 99 percent throughout Europe and is found at significant levels in North Africa, East Africa, and as far east as India and Ceylon. In Roman times; chroniclers would note that the Picts of Scotland were dark-skinned. We also know that the indigenous WHG's of Europe were also dark-skinned 6,000 years ago. East Asians and Amerindians diverged only 15,000 years ago; yet observe the significant differences in physiognomy and behavior between them.

    The evolutionary responses differ by region; depending on when agriculture was adopted. Places where agriculture is the oldest, such as the Middle East, Europe, India and China; have people who are most adapted to agricultural society. Amerindians in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys adopted maize agriculture only 1,000 years ago, but the Australian Aborigines never domesticated plants at all. We therefore see fewer adaptive changes among them and sub-Saharan Africans.

    Evolution has continued at a fast pace even in the modern period. Gregory Clark has outlined the selective process operating on Englishmen throughout the previous 500 years in A Farewell To Alms. He found that the upper class had approximately two times more children than the lower classes; eventually making English society more bourgeois in behavior. Natural selection can operate on a short period of time given a sufficiently large population.

    If an allele affecting behavior had a frequency of 20 percent and a 6 percent selective advantage in a European population in 1500; then over the next 300 years, the frequency of that allele would have doubled, and going from 20 percent to 40 percent. This would be enough to give European society in 1800 some new capability or tendency.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

  342. @songbird
    @LatW


    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.
     
    Latw, I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe. Imagine seeing someone who looks like Idi Amin, Jr. commiserating with someone who looks like Papa Doc III about the difficulty of their Irish lessions.

    Imagine going to the Gaeltacht, that remote part of Ireland where the language held on by its fingernails, and seeing a chorus of teenage girls perform Adele's horrible pop songs translated into Irish, with subcons among them, and a guy on the piano, who is so strange-looking that you, with an interest in geopolitics and HBD cannot even identify his ethnic origin. Part non-Javanese Indonesian, and part Papuan?

    (All within walking distance, of half your family roots.)

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies. There is a movie Black '47 which I liked, only because it had a bit of Irish in it, and would have probably disliked otherwise. I liked the star of it, even though he was technically not Irish (he may have been part), he certainly looked the part.

    But I tell you LatW, I don't like to see those scions of African dictators complaining about their Irish lessons, or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    As much as I love it, I would trade its very trace memory, its every written record, to send them away, and keep them out.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @S

    I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe.

    Trust me, I understand. It is beyond horror. The biggest horror is the imminent thought of the finality of it.

    In the case of Ireland it sucks particularly because it is a small nation that barely salvaged its language.

    [MORE]

    Imagine some rich minority, let’s say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I’d flip. That’s why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state. Then you can cut in its root. If you’re lucky, given the global demographic reality.

    or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    That is quite peculiar though. A rarity, I would imagine. Would they have arrived from someplace around Oceania? Papua New Guinea? Poor Denisovans, they were absorbed.

    But this just goes to show how widespread this immigration to Ireland has become when you get even such rare types. It’s not the fault of these foreign people, it’s the fault of the ruling classes.

    • Agree: songbird
    • LOL: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Imagine some rich minority, let’s say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I’d flip. That’s why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state.
     
    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.

    I mentioned the level of ethnic diversity from Muslim peoples in the small town where I live a few comments ago, if you also included the non-Muslim ethnic minority groups living here, Chinese, South Indians, Nigerians and imagine most of them growing in size as demographic estimates predict, its hard to envisage what sort of common identity might arise or what it would be based around (purchasing German cars?). It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    , @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can't really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.

    I know you're a woman and your opinion matters less than 0 just for the audience.


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403314774136/Feminism_1.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403579023481/IMG-20161008-WA0002.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403851632750/IMG-20161021-WA0000.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634404082331659/IMG-20161021-WA0001.jpg

    The Indian faces 71% reservation against upper castes in the government.
    Worse than the condition of the white male yet a situation created by the latter.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @sudden death

  343. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    I agree that Muscovite tradition has been authoritarian since Ivan the Terrible at least, probably even since his father’s time. That was the price of survival as the only Orthodox Slav country (with the notable exception of Montenegro) not conquered by some German or Turkic neighbor. It was also the price of building an Empire. Something that the Rzezcpospolita failed at.
     
    I disagree. Russia was the only Slavic state that became an Empire because it was the only one that bordered technologically backward and tribal peoples. Various Western European countries with access to such peoples via their ships also built great empires, and they had diverse governing systems - Britain, France, Spain, even the Netherlands and Portugal.

    Rzeczpospolita was in trouble because it was landlocked and surrounded. The Germans had a similar problem and despite being more numerous than Poles, their 2nd and 3rd Reichs didn’t last nearly as long as did PLC.

    Russian despotism was a product of a selection process within the Horde wherein the most loyal and collaborationist of the Rus princes monopolized power (with Tatar patronage) over those who were less loyal. This resulted in a Russian ruling class that was both close to the Tatars in terms of their political folkways and that had less loyalty to their own subjects and native traditions.

    Nowadays, the time of classical Empires is over. Now it is time for federations and confederations
     
    Indeed. A federation of Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, and maybe liberation/restoration of Belarus would be a very good thing. Add Czechia and perhaps Slovakia.

    Vyacheslav Chornovil, one of the most respected Ukrainian nationalists of the early independent Ukraine, had in his time warned that the Ukrainian state would better be a federation instead of attempting at imposing an unified “one size fits all” approach to all the regions. He had also suggested giving a very large level of autonomy to Crimea

     

    Crimea and the Russian-populated parts of Donbas should have been expelled from the start. The rest of Ukraine - that had a solid Ukrainian majority in each region - could have been federated.

    If this had occurred from the beginning, Ukraine would have been in the EU and NATO and there would have been no war.

    A federation with parts populated by ethnic Russian majorities and loyal to Russia would have been a terrible thing for Ukraine (but good for Russia). It would have been a repetition of late-stage PLC where Russia used a few Russia-friendly magnates to paralyze the whole system for its own purposes.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    Rzeczpospolita was in trouble because it was landlocked

    “Landlocked”?? Perfectly encapsulates the lying idiocy of this fantasist retard.

  344. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    I don't find it funny because I don't have an unacknowledged burning hatred for Western women.

    Instead, it is just nonsense. There are no lack of beautiful people on American television. Instead,there is a lack of truly ugly people. Watch the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice to see what a television show with ordinary looking extras is like. It is shocking! Even though British people are the best looking people in the world, of course.

    Replies: @songbird, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Barbarossa

    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.

    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    Did you guys finish War and Peace?

    https://i.imgur.com/jUFTbio.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!
     
    Genuinely don't mean to ruffle Yevardian's feathers, but now that Barbarossa has laid the groundwork: how in the heck is Kim Kardashian only half-Armenian?

    (Sorry, but I could not help myself. Ethnic jokes are my favorite kind.)
    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    That's reasonable. The Kim Kardashian aesthetic of heavy "contouring" has been almost all-conquering. "Almost" because the Fox News aesthetic of plastic bottled blonde also does well in its areas. Nonetheless television is still full of beautiful people, far in excess of society. I think you can decry the fakeness and the above two trends, while recognising this. Just the difference in obesity rates should be enough!

    On obesity, Hanania is right on when he points out that, though people generally blame it on their pet issue, the truth is that food is cheaper than ever and tastier than ever, and this, by itself, can explain obesity. Unfortunately for humans, tastier and healthier, do not align, unless healthy is the old school definition of "most calories."

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @QCIC
    @Barbarossa

    You can always stop watching TV. Problem solved!

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

  345. @Mikel
    @LatW


    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians’ attitudes, because the world has now changed. It’s not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.
     
    I don't know much about Scandinavian societies but my limited knowledge is that they have well-established democratic habits but are not particularly rebellious and are subject to political correctness and MSM brainwashing as much as anyone else in the West. The obvious purpose of joining a defensive alliance is to increase your security but the chances of Russia attacking Sweden or Finland after their disastrous invasion of Ukraine are ~0. And they would have been essentially the same if Russia had been successful. By contrast, their joining NATO (even if Turkey keeps them waiting for a long time) puts them at immediate risk of receiving a nuclear attack in the unlikely event that Russia did decide to go beyond Ukraine and attack much more likely objectives than themselves.

    In summary, yes, they did have the luxury of remaining neutral, just as Switzerland or Austria have done, and I suspect that the decision to join NATO was fueled more by the emotion of the moment than any rational consideration. Another sign of how things are changing for the worse, East and West.

    Replies: @LatW

    but are not particularly rebellious and are subject to political correctness and MSM brainwashing as much as anyone else in the West.

    They are actually quite rational and long term planners. You are trying to portray them as some sheeple, which they are not.

    but the chances of Russia attacking Sweden or Finland after their disastrous invasion of Ukraine are ~0

    They have billions worth of long term investments in the Baltic states, which would be lost if Russia invaded there. Or if they destabilized the region. They have always distrusted Russia, they just didn’t openly show it.

    I mean, look at PewDiePie’s ridiculous “Slav videos” (which, while somewhat funny, are a bit one sided).

    Of course, it doesn’t mean they had to join NATO.

    By contrast, their joining NATO (even if Turkey keeps them waiting for a long time) puts them at immediate risk of receiving a nuclear attack in the unlikely event that Russia did decide to go beyond Ukraine and attack much more likely objectives than themselves.

    In the case of a nuclear strike (very unlikely), the North would not be the first target. The North would get off relatively lightly. Unless the Arctic had been fully taken over which is not any time soon.

  346. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird, @Leaves No Shadow, @QCIC

    Did you guys finish War and Peace?

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Almost done with it. We had a bunch of things; good, bad and indifferent come up in rapid succession which slowed us down. Hopefully this weekend we'll have time to finish it up.

    My second oldest daughter is actually the kid who likes it the most, she keeps fomenting for us to watch it! The other kids like it well enough but she seems to really enjoy it. Maybe it's not surprising on reflection since she is also the kid who's favorite Miyazaki movie is When Marnie Was There which most kids would probably find boring and slow.

    I've just started Vonnegut's Player Piano as it was recommended as another good dystopian work. It's okay so far, but I haven't found it to belong on the top shelf of insightful dystopian works so far.

  347. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective

    1. There's no such thing as "archons".

    2. Theories of evil are necessarily more convoluted because it is illusory.

    Otoh, I don't think it is unhealthy that you treat these things as real. The descriptive word "illusion" does not mean the descripted phenomenon lacks power, or even personality. Just that it only exists as something partial.

    3. Light is there shining brightly, but humans turn away and cower, for fear of what it might reveal about themselves. And this is why they find truth so difficult, even maddening. Introduce bits of it too big for them to them, and watch them go insane.

    4. When people say you would have to give up existence to live in truth, they mean you would have to give up what you currently falsely identify as you. A set of lies and copes and fears.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Barbarossa

    Yes, I’d say evil just takes good and twists it. It has no independent existence.

    However, in the spirit world there are beings with good, bad, or neutral intent. Not so different from people in that regard.

  348. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Gerard1234

    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn't want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany's objections.

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections

    It’s nice to see that you’re still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    Ideologically, they’re obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I’d suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It’s hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America’s most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I’m betting on the latter.

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ron Unz

    I hate to break-up your party, but:

    https://youtu.be/MK9PzKrk_UQ

    https://youtu.be/1CryVKKlxIo

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ron Unz

    I feel like I'm the one going crazy. People suspicious of the media are all talking about the US bombing the pipelines, even though Nordstream 2 still works, and Nordstream 1 does not. A couple of facts that obviously implicate Russia and definitely not the US.

    Meanwhile, the media appears scared to investigate this for fear that they'll have to report something which implicates Biden, and so doesn't seem able to notice the above facts.

    I don't know how many times I need to restate this for someone, anyone, to notice it, but Russia wanted Nordstream 1 closed and it got permanently closed. Meanwhile, the US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.

    Sy Hersh's source, a million random words on alt sites, and MacGregor's unbreakable confidence, can't change this.

    Furthermore, what's this bizarre theory about the US having to use a sonar buoy? They would literally just use their ELF network, maintained for nuclear submarines. It is especially good in the Baltic Sea and would be totally untraceable and secure, with no potential for messing up. And what type of intelligence source wouldn't know about it? The sonar buoy narrative is like a very poorly researched fabulism from a daytime spy thriller.

    To poke at the media again, why are they too pathetic to do the research to point out these very obvious facts? Such cravens, even when they'd easily be right.

    Just for your info, though you may disagree. MacGregor's huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2. There's videos of Russia losing 30 armoured vehicles in just single assaults. Now he might say that these are just recces-in-force or whatever, but spring is coming in 10 days and the ground will get a lot worse in the areas they are trying to advance. In other words, that is their time limit to be done with their great attack. Obviously this means that it has already happened and failed. Nonetheless, I do expect him to start talking about Russia inevitably crushing Ukraine as soon as the ground dries out in summer, because he's been repeating this act since before the war begun. You must surely see this pattern!

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @A123
    @Ron Unz


    Ideologically, they’re obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.
     
    Terminology is important. To be delusional, one must have the ability to think clearly (at least in spurts). Therefore, the current administration is not delusional. Not-The-President Biden is far gone, well past that threshold. This creates a problem for Hersh and his anonymously sourced piece: (1)

    Sy Hersh Swings and Misses Big

    The most astounding claim in the blockbuster new article from Seymour Hersh alleging that the U.S. is responsible for sabotaging two of Russia’s natural gas pipelines is that the Biden administration is led by a no-nonsense crew of highly capable tacticians. Forget what you’ve heard about secret classified documents turning up in various Biden residences; in Hersh’s telling the Biden White House practices exceptional operational security.

     

    It is especially telling that the MSM has covered up the highly plausible industrial mishap scenario. The biggest problems with an attack are geography and timing.

    • Why did ruptures happen 17 hours apart?
    • Why were only 3 of 4 pipes hit?
    • Can anyone explain this geography?

    The fact that the events happened at or near bends is strongly indicative that moving hydrate slugs blew out the system from the inside. (2)


    Anyone notice anything interesting about the ruptures at 02:03 hours and 19:03 hours?

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/nord-292x300.jpg

    Assuming that the map accurately represents the course of the pipelines; and assuming that the map accurately represents the location of the ruptures … wah-ho, isn’t that interesting, as Dear Old Dad would say?

    Even more interesting is this little tidbit, also via email. Russia was having compressor “issues” on Nord 1, enough that the whole sodding compressor station was “shut down” and a “hazardous production facility”.

    Is anyone else getting the twitchies regarding the fact that at least some of the equipment that keeps the pipeline pressurised was off-line? Just me? Oh, well then. Carry on.
     

    Why does the Fake Stream Media keep this under lock & key? Could it be that the media is directed by the warmongering WEF of Davos, a city not in the U.S., which wants to reset the entire human race?

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO
     
    The German Green party, part of the Scholz Traffic Light Coalition, also wanted NordStream gone. Thus, there is no victim when the supposedly injured party actively wanted the supposed harm. This has no impact on NATO.

    If anyone wants to go with attack theories, the German Greens are a more likely perpetrator than the befuddled, incompetent regime occupying the White House. The German Greens had everything to gain and nothing to lose, much like the Poles.

    That being said -- NATO is too large, has members pulling opposite directions, and does not have a mission. This has been true for decades. Every unwise expansion brings the defensive alliance closer to disintegration.

    Can anyone imagine Türkiye putting troops on the ground in Ukraine to fight Russia? A political admission of a new but smaller Ukrainian entity would be an irrevocable step towards the irrelevancy of NATO. Although, such folly would almost certainly be vetoed or procedurally mired into never happening.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Not Raul

    , @Brás Cubas
    @Ron Unz


    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO
     
    Of course this will only happen if the higher-ups know a lot more than we do.
    , @Yevardian
    @Ron Unz

    Funny, I just noticed the embed link for Amy Goodman's interview with Hersh now no longer works, as it's been 'Age Restricted for Sensitive or Upsetting Content'... Macgregor's video is still up though.

    I can only speculate this 'shadow-banning' of sorts happened in the instance of 'Democracy Now!' so quickly is due to an assumption it might sway large numbers of fence-sitters, whilst Ritter, MacGregor and the like have obviously been preaching solely to the converted for a long time.

    I'd be watching closely if/how the MSM reacts to this, if the 'total blackout' route is taken, my estimation it was a US-overseen operation jumps from 95% to 99%.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

  349. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird, @Leaves No Shadow, @QCIC

    I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    Genuinely don’t mean to ruffle Yevardian’s feathers, but now that Barbarossa has laid the groundwork: how in the heck is Kim Kardashian only half-Armenian?

    (Sorry, but I could not help myself. Ethnic jokes are my favorite kind.)

  350. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    Did you guys finish War and Peace?

    https://i.imgur.com/jUFTbio.jpg

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Almost done with it. We had a bunch of things; good, bad and indifferent come up in rapid succession which slowed us down. Hopefully this weekend we’ll have time to finish it up.

    My second oldest daughter is actually the kid who likes it the most, she keeps fomenting for us to watch it! The other kids like it well enough but she seems to really enjoy it. Maybe it’s not surprising on reflection since she is also the kid who’s favorite Miyazaki movie is When Marnie Was There which most kids would probably find boring and slow.

    I’ve just started Vonnegut’s Player Piano as it was recommended as another good dystopian work. It’s okay so far, but I haven’t found it to belong on the top shelf of insightful dystopian works so far.

  351. @LatW
    @A123

    Of course, George Washington, on top of being brave, was also rich, but is this enough to claim that he operated as a part of some secret elite group that had fundamentally different interests than this other "native" New England group, like S claims. I need to pick up that Third Rome book that he recommended.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @A123, @S

    I can’t speak specifically about George Washington, though he was a Freemason and probably pretty high level. What I’ve described is what would be called a cabal, and whether a person be a member of royalty, a secret society, or a business elite, not every member of these groups necessarily knows what is going on within the cabal, or, even knows that it [the cabal] exist.

    [MORE]

    The effectively blacklisted New Rome linked below and published in 1853, though a bit dry in places, has the basics of what appears to have in reality happened in regards to the United States and the 1776 Revolution…ie 1776 was a planned false split, an act of strategic deception, in that the British ‘threw’ the war in favor of the nascent US. In time the US and UK (as planned) will rejoin to make a practically unbeatable united front.

    This new US/UK united front once formed will first move to conquer Germany, thereby unleashing a ‘world’s war’. Immediately following the US/UK conquest of Germany, they will move against Russia, and according to the book defeat it by way of the powerful US air force. Then will come the United States of the World.

    The second link just below is to A Political Prophecy published in 1913, the companion booklet to the New Rome.

    https://archive.org/details/newrome00poes/page/n16/mode/2up

    https://archive.org/details/politicalprophec00goeb_0/page/n1/mode/2up

    If you do read the New Rome, it might be better to first read the two essays published below, which fill in the details the New Rome book leaves out. They describe in detail the long range plans developed by London (specifically the powerful British Board of Trade) in the decades prior to 1776 for British North America, plans which dovetail perfectly with the New Rome book, namely that the United States is to be the planned direct continuation of the British Empire. [Neither of the two essays mention the little known 1853 New Rome book.]

    The site which host the two essays, the outstanding Belcher Foundation, is dedicated to the preservation of the memory and lifework of Jonathan Belcher, prominent British Royal colonial governor, founder of Princeton University, and first North American born British Freemason. [Though the site owner doesn’t say so, he is almost certainly a Freemason, perhaps a very high level one.]

    https://belcherfoundation.org/camerica.htm

    https://belcherfoundation.org/trilateral_governor.htm

    A bonus Belcher Foundation essay on the involvement of Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson in orchestrating the proto-Communist French Revolution of 1789. This fits the known historic record perfectly. Thomas Paine also took part in the French Revolution.

    https://belcherfoundation.org/trilateral_center.htm

    • Thanks: LatW
  352. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    I have seen AI when it was in the movie theaters. I forgot the main part of the plot with the exception of the android kid traveling accross the future US after running from a bourgeois home and being nearly destroyed by some evil antirobot Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in Hollywood scenarios and cannot be otherwise). IIRC it was the last movie of Stanley Kubrick, that he hadn't had time to finish and that was completed by someone else (Spielberg?).

    I am wondering why this movie brought my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information towards consciousness. I haven't had any philosophical musings about it at the time, unlike after seeing the Matrix. I have just found it touching and sad, and in a sense it made me think of Solaris (the book by Lem, not the movie by Tarkovsky) because of the unrequited love of the robot kid for "his mother" and the impossibility of reaching an objective state of connection to the other.

    But yes, coming back to what we discussed earlier, basically what we are witnessing is information evolving towards forms of organisation that are more adapted to manipulate matter/energy/information itself, these three semantic categories being human-made descriptors for the Ontological Reality (Whole of Being in itself).



    I (perhaps wrongly) believe that the True Nature of Ontological Reality is ineffable. Anything that can be said about it is just descriptors - human made definitions - words. These words are the product of our consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution. As an example, we see colors and not wavelengths of photons, we feel solid and material something that is made of 99,9999... void etc. Of course what I write here is platitudes and clichés, but I think that they correspond to our existential situation which is basically wrong perception inevitably leading to ignorance (that's the core of Buddhadharma here).

    What is more peculiar is that we have a difficult time defining information itself. My idiosyncratic definition of information is "any pattern of distribution of matter/energy that can be detected by any type of receptor". It doesn't necessarily contain meaning and is not necessarily connected to anything except a stochastic distribution of bits. Now, out of necessity,any receptor is itself a "pattern of distribution of matter/energy" therefore it is itself a sum of information - an "information system". Following from here information is perceived by information and processed as information. We live in an information Reality we are information ourselves.

    If we add to it that according to modern physics, everything can be reduced to quarks, leptons, gluons etc. and that those can be described as potential in their respective quantum fields that "permeate" (for a lack of better word) our Universe, and that quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel's meaning.

    Perhaps that's what a Sufi could term "the Veil of ignorance" that is made as an Orthodox Christian would perhaps say of "subtle energies" of the Palamite Theology hiding the Essence (Ousia) of God. Then the Sufi and the Orthodox Christian might discuss it with a Buddhist who would note that the experience of this Ontological Reality is of necessity a physico-psychological one, made in the here and now, as constructed from elemental units - the dharmas. And the Hinduist would concur that "Tat tvam asi" (You are that).

    Then the Atheist would call 911 and send them all to a mental asylum for not stopping at the Veil of Ignorance and trying to imagine something beneath it.

    Sorry, I digresses again. Same as usual.

    Not sure whether what I wrote makes any sense. But I would like to read what you think of it. And thanks of making me think realize that AI algorithms are sometimes (or is it always?) using competing neural network models. Very interesting, I will have to read about it.

    🙂

    Replies: @Dmitry

    consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution.

    Why would the mind be the same as the animal? It can be something in the different category.

    Which is much less complicated topic, the “selfish gene theory” believes the genes are self-replicating sections of code, which the animal is physically processing in relation to the environment. But the animal and the machine instructions they encode are not the same although there is interaction between these.

    For example, the single animal lives a few decades, while the same blocs of the machine instructions are encoded by many animals, and earlier sections of the data are encoded by most all current and past animals and plants. (Generally, it’s only more recent added parts of the code which are limited to single species of animals).

    Our mind could have a similar kinds of not identical relation where it is not the animal although there is an interaction with the animal.

    difficult time defining information itself

    Sure, but without needing an abstraction, DNA is digital code. It’s digital arrangement of the 64 possible values. It’s like designed to compute on java bytecode.*

    Genetics are an example of machine language. But in physics they can see much more abstract things as information.

    my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information

    Because you write in the end of your post ” I care so much about my genetic” (transmission of the instruction sequences encoded by the animals), from beginning of history “to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere”.

    Views are “idiosyncratic”, but it reminds of this film, as it is like the story of the end of the film, where a future lifeform is trying to understanding humans, after humans have died.

    A robot boy in 2200 AD was trying to attain the love of a human mother.

    After being abandoned in the hate of the human society, he is re-discovered in 4200 AD by a future nonhuman species.

    Although for the writers, the future nonhuman species in the film which discover robot boy, are not interested in the genetic information, but they believe the only important transmission of information is his reflection of the human emotions –
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8Xp7ozYME.

    This message of the writers of the film, is the emotions would be the interesting result of humans, not the more basic information.

    Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in
    Hollywood

    The boy is a kind of Jesus and Mary image, representing love.

    Persecution of the robots is related to the earlier films about the holocaust by the director, representing. There is the film writers are trying to show contrast of love and hate.

    [MORE]

    * There is the task

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    You can apply Shannon's information entropy approach to genetic information.



    The maximum value of information contained in a given DNA base pair alignment is 2 bits. You can easily estimate how useful is a genomic feature by looking at its information content.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_logo

    And information theory can be effectively applied not only to DNA and the derived RNA and proteins (as per the central dogma of the molecular biology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_dogma_of_molecular_biology), but also to the protein-protein interactions in the interactome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactome). It could be applied to the cellular receptors interacting with their ligands etc.

    It is all information. Not only DNA, but everything else too.

    You probably know of the Kolmogorov - Chaitin Complexity. It is also directly applicable to the genomics because the genome is the basic program needed to encode the cellular object in its complexity and the cells form the organism which is even more complex.

    Information is logarithmic. The average human genome would contain a maximum of 6,6 Gigabit of information. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics) we would get into the Big Data category.

    The gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind and everybody else's are nodes in a communication network- the interactome of consciousness spanning space and time. In Zen there is a saying: it's not mind, we just call it Mind. Also: a billion eyes see - a billion ears hear - a billion hands help. Also a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

    It all points in the same direction - Mind Only (Cittamatra, Vijnanavada, Yogacara: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara). They didn't need bioinformatics or information theory or internet to get to this point of realization. They just needed sitting quietly facing a wall.

    Consciousness is a feature of Reality and Reality is a reflection of this Consciousness. It is like something or someone looking at oneself in a mirror trough your eyes, but also my eyes and everyone's else's.

    https://www.lionsroar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/enso-featured.png

    Why should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself (Tat tvam asi).

    Sentient beings suffer and are worthy of compassion.

    Even the worst among them.

    We are into it all together.

    It is sometimes calles Interbeing.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/interbeing

    Materialism is limitating and boring, especially when there is nothing that separates mind from matter. Rationalism will only get you that far. It will not lead to the other shore. To get to the other shore one must stop clutching at straws of reason.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  353. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    It doesn’t really matter whose “lines” die out – first of all, lines don’t die out, they get absorbed...
     
    I was thinking of lines of descent here, e.g. if I had no children my line of descent wouldn't continue.

    “You” are not your body. This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew.
     
    But reincarnation has to be true for this to be the case. I'm possibly still too influenced by regressive Scholastic philosophy to think a full person can exist without their physical body.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Dmitry

    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.

    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible “appointments” for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.
     
    Alternatively, such religions may exist in order to ensure inbreeding. Druze symbol is rainbow star - are they a rainbow nation?

    Since Protestants allowed for cousin marriages again after their Catholic ban, it certainly is an issue more important than almost anything else for some people. Almost any religion which tried to ban inbreeding - like Judaism - has seen some backlash.

    Also the belief in reincarnation seems to have been somehow correlated with inbreeding. For example, Tibetan Buddhists usually look for reincarnations of their lamas among families of the deceased (this is what made me to stop entertaining a belief in reincarnation too, when I tried to become Buddhist).
    In Sephardic rabbinic Judaism, Maimonides, a strong believer in cousin marriages, apparently believed in reincarnation too.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.
     
    In the longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third - fourth degree cousins. A people was in a true sense an extended family. Ethnic nationalism is an ideological relict species of the natural humanity.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible “appointments” for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.
     
    Yes that is why as humans increase in numbers and humanity progresses in its cultural and civilizational fields the number of humans increase, and the number of beasts decreases. Pigs, cats, rats and dogs take human flesh and sometimes act accordingly to their previous identity. Humanity gets too lazy and stupid. Now that we get lazy, dumb and perverted, the nature would normally progressively take it all back and animals will again become more numerous. A circle of mind ecology. Unless the Technosphere replaces it all. There is a limited quantity of information that the biosphere can contain, it is directly linked to the amount of energy this planet receives from the Sun and produces through its volcanic activity (the Sun is obviously the most important part).

    About information in biological systems, ses my comment above.

    😉

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other.
     
    HMS was correct in his reply that I didn't have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins.
     
    But they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Dmitry

    Could not agree more.

    The Luciferians manage and govern for their planned reincarnation. They are religiously different and the ones in Christian society are heretics. The ones in Saudi Arabia can be decapitated in the public square no problem if you ask me.

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry

    Sure, but if we're embracing a world in which reincarnation is real, let's embrace the whole world view and metaphysics of it - that there is some great Intelligence directing it all.

    In that case, if there will be fewer humans to reincarnate into, then that means fewer sentient beings need to be human.

    For myself becoming an animal would, if the circumstances are right, be a ton of fun - but I suppose that applies to being human too.

    In most of the traditions that believe in reincarnation, it isn't "desirable" - to return to this world is a failure, you haven't succeeded in freeing yourself from karma.

  354. @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

    I hate to break-up your party, but:

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Hack


    I hate to break-up your party, but:
     
    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    But nearly all of those individuals are directly tied to the American establishment and often employed by it, so how could they say or do anything else?

    That's exactly what happened during the Iraq War, and some of them had been heavily involved in that as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-life-and-legacy-of-lt-gen-william-odom/

    When the media/political/financial landscape is tilted 100-to-1 on one side of an issue, it's hardly surprising that you can find lots of people taking that side.

    However, when you find a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side, that really gets my attention and leads me to believe they're correct.

    Again, they've either all suddenly gone crazy together or they're probably right.

    Replies: @AP, @AnonfromTN, @Not Raul

  355. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    Alternatively, such religions may exist in order to ensure inbreeding. Druze symbol is rainbow star – are they a rainbow nation?

    Since Protestants allowed for cousin marriages again after their Catholic ban, it certainly is an issue more important than almost anything else for some people. Almost any religion which tried to ban inbreeding – like Judaism – has seen some backlash.

    Also the belief in reincarnation seems to have been somehow correlated with inbreeding. For example, Tibetan Buddhists usually look for reincarnations of their lamas among families of the deceased (this is what made me to stop entertaining a belief in reincarnation too, when I tried to become Buddhist).
    In Sephardic rabbinic Judaism, Maimonides, a strong believer in cousin marriages, apparently believed in reincarnation too.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul

    Muslims do not believe in reincarnation, but there is a saying in the Qur'an: "(God) will make you alive, then make you dead, then make you alive again and then you will return unto Him". The batini esoteric ghulat sects sometimes believed in reincarnation. The Ismaili supposedly did, the Druz are descended from some among the most extreme ghulat sects.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batiniyya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghulat

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  356. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    It was 200,000 years of human population to increase to the first 1 billion, while since 2011 the population has increased by 1 billion.
     
    Did you watch Ancient Apocalypse ?

    https://youtu.be/DgvaXros3MY

    Also René Barjavel would have disagreed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_People_(Barjavel_novel)

    Just kidding because you're too serious.

    I agree with what you wrote. We are living in a completely unnatural way. Desmond Morris in the Naked Ape and the Naked Couple had adequately described the problem. I've read both books when I was in my early twenties, but I didn't really consider it that important. Now I think otherwise. But I have since also read the Unabomber Manifesto and discussed metaphysics with Chat GPT. Perhaps I should re-read Desmond Morris...

    🙂

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Ancient Apocalypse ?

    Lol we need Yahya to comment about this
    https://youtu.be/Ss8vJNx-iw8?t=73.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Dmitry

    The Pyramids were built by aliens. All this talk about an apocalypse is just pseudoscientific gobbledy-gook.

  357. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    consciousness effected by our perception that has been shaped and biased in a certain (practical and useful) sense by the evolution.
     
    Why would the mind be the same as the animal? It can be something in the different category.

    Which is much less complicated topic, the "selfish gene theory" believes the genes are self-replicating sections of code, which the animal is physically processing in relation to the environment. But the animal and the machine instructions they encode are not the same although there is interaction between these.

    For example, the single animal lives a few decades, while the same blocs of the machine instructions are encoded by many animals, and earlier sections of the data are encoded by most all current and past animals and plants. (Generally, it's only more recent added parts of the code which are limited to single species of animals).

    Our mind could have a similar kinds of not identical relation where it is not the animal although there is an interaction with the animal.


    difficult time defining information itself

     

    Sure, but without needing an abstraction, DNA is digital code. It's digital arrangement of the 64 possible values. It's like designed to compute on java bytecode.*

    Genetics are an example of machine language. But in physics they can see much more abstract things as information.


    my ramblings on this forum to your mind and how you have linked it with the evolution of information

     

    Because you write in the end of your post " I care so much about my genetic" (transmission of the instruction sequences encoded by the animals), from beginning of history "to some future lifeforms whom might well one day live somewhere far away outside our small blue sphere".

    Views are "idiosyncratic", but it reminds of this film, as it is like the story of the end of the film, where a future lifeform is trying to understanding humans, after humans have died.

    A robot boy in 2200 AD was trying to attain the love of a human mother.

    After being abandoned in the hate of the human society, he is re-discovered in 4200 AD by a future nonhuman species.

    Although for the writers, the future nonhuman species in the film which discover robot boy, are not interested in the genetic information, but they believe the only important transmission of information is his reflection of the human emotions -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O8Xp7ozYME.

    This message of the writers of the film, is the emotions would be the interesting result of humans, not the more basic information.


    Redneck crowd (because obviously Rednecks are always negative and destructive in
    Hollywood
     
    The boy is a kind of Jesus and Mary image, representing love.

    Persecution of the robots is related to the earlier films about the holocaust by the director, representing. There is the film writers are trying to show contrast of love and hate.


    -

    * There is the task

    https://i.imgur.com/crfxzRV.png

    https://i.imgur.com/VrRXuJK.png

    https://i.imgur.com/IxhhfcU.png

    https://i.imgur.com/67n4G7f.png

    https://i.imgur.com/vfXn44W.png

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    You can apply Shannon’s information entropy approach to genetic information.

    [MORE]

    The maximum value of information contained in a given DNA base pair alignment is 2 bits. You can easily estimate how useful is a genomic feature by looking at its information content.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_logo

    And information theory can be effectively applied not only to DNA and the derived RNA and proteins (as per the central dogma of the molecular biology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_dogma_of_molecular_biology), but also to the protein-protein interactions in the interactome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactome). It could be applied to the cellular receptors interacting with their ligands etc.

    It is all information. Not only DNA, but everything else too.

    You probably know of the Kolmogorov – Chaitin Complexity. It is also directly applicable to the genomics because the genome is the basic program needed to encode the cellular object in its complexity and the cells form the organism which is even more complex.

    Information is logarithmic. The average human genome would contain a maximum of 6,6 Gigabit of information. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics) we would get into the Big Data category.

    The gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind and everybody else’s are nodes in a communication network- the interactome of consciousness spanning space and time. In Zen there is a saying: it’s not mind, we just call it Mind. Also: a billion eyes see – a billion ears hear – a billion hands help. Also a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

    It all points in the same direction – Mind Only (Cittamatra, Vijnanavada, Yogacara: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara). They didn’t need bioinformatics or information theory or internet to get to this point of realization. They just needed sitting quietly facing a wall.

    Consciousness is a feature of Reality and Reality is a reflection of this Consciousness. It is like something or someone looking at oneself in a mirror trough your eyes, but also my eyes and everyone’s else’s.

    Why should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself (Tat tvam asi).

    Sentient beings suffer and are worthy of compassion.

    Even the worst among them.

    We are into it all together.

    It is sometimes calles Interbeing.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/interbeing

    Materialism is limitating and boring, especially when there is nothing that separates mind from matter. Rationalism will only get you that far. It will not lead to the other shore. To get to the other shore one must stop clutching at straws of reason.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    all information. Not only DNA, but everything.. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics)
     
    I feel you are confusing different concepts of information and confusing also difference between information and the information about something.

    For example, if instructions for building IKEA furniture can be several kilobytes. But the information about the furniture you build using this instructions would be textbooks of physics and chemistry.

    The furniture that is constructed is not the same as the instructions for building, although there is physical interaction between the instructions and the furniture constructed.

    Same, textbooks of physics and chemistry that would describe the IKEA furniture which is constructed, are not the same as the IKEA furniture constructed.

    We can't do the furniture shopping going to the IKEA catalogue and downloading the instructions, or reading the scientific explanation in the textbook. Physical object is different than both algorithm for assembly (instructions) and information describing it (textbooks).

    For DNA, its real existence is some chains of amino acids, the information is the patterns of machine code that it contains and these patterns which has predictable (i.e. the pattern-based) causal relations with the physical world.

    But when we talk about the machine code, this is a discussion about the patterns in the chains of relevant chains of protein in the animal and plant cells. This is information in the normal understanding, as something that can be reduced to the digital code.


    quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel’s meaning

     

    He had proved a lack of consistency in the formal system (based in axioms). I'm not sure you can say "incomplete of mathematics to express reality" based in this. It's about incompleteness to axiomatize mathematics.

    gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind

     

    Genetics are just machine code that has a predictable relation to physical world. It's not "for" anything. It has random variation although in context of the probability chains which creates the very sensitive and gradual relations of the machine code in relation to its own history and environment.

    should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself
     

    You can be confusing notidentical things. For example of notidentical things, we can confuse in the normal discussion, maybe think about between a bottle of Coca Cola and the Coca Cola.

    If you say "this is a bottle of Coca Cola"? Is the bottle made of Coca Cola instead of plastic? Is plastic Coca Cola?

    If you drink the bottle of coca cola, so it falls to your stomach, can you say "this is a stomach of coca cola". It has causal relations with Coca Cola, but the stomach is not the same as Coca Cola.

    If you open the bottle of Coca Cola and throw the liquid components into the sink, is it a bottle of Coca Cola or bottle of plastic?

    Bottle of Coca Cola includes multiple notidentical kind of things (plastic, Coca Cola liquid) which are having a particular causal relation.

    I wouldn't speculate, but the relation between the minds and the animals can possibly be nonidentical relations.

    As we all know, we see mainly a predictable causal relations between the minds and the animals. But this isn't enough to say they are the same things.


    a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

     

    It can be trying to make the students of the Zen teacher think to this more universal sense of the mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)

    longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third – fourth degree cousins.

     

    For most of our history, we lived in the groups around 80 people.

    We didn't necessarily inherit preference to reduce the genetic diversity, but it could be in the other direction, we inherit preference to increase genetic diversity, as the evidence of the hunter-gatherers was to often try to increase the genetic diversity to their groups by marrying to other tribes.

    Obviously, what we inherit, is not necessarily "correct" from universal view or even "adapted" for current environments' view. But it's possible patterns from this time continue in our current environment.

    Although we know those explanations of culture from evolution, are usually a pseudoscience, as the methodology follows something more like "just-so" stories.

    Let's say, in literary or poetical view, still feels like we have a new perspective when we look at the hunter-gatherer time where orders of magnitude most of the generations of our human ancestors experienced.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  358. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    In the longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third – fourth degree cousins. A people was in a true sense an extended family. Ethnic nationalism is an ideological relict species of the natural humanity.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible “appointments” for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Yes that is why as humans increase in numbers and humanity progresses in its cultural and civilizational fields the number of humans increase, and the number of beasts decreases. Pigs, cats, rats and dogs take human flesh and sometimes act accordingly to their previous identity. Humanity gets too lazy and stupid. Now that we get lazy, dumb and perverted, the nature would normally progressively take it all back and animals will again become more numerous. A circle of mind ecology. Unless the Technosphere replaces it all. There is a limited quantity of information that the biosphere can contain, it is directly linked to the amount of energy this planet receives from the Sun and produces through its volcanic activity (the Sun is obviously the most important part).

    About information in biological systems, ses my comment above.

    😉

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    number of humans increase, and the number of beasts decreases
     
    Numbers of wild animals decreases, but numbers of animals in the factory farms increases. Factory farms are one of the more negative things in terms of the popular view. But I wonder for Buddhists which strongly follow their religion, who can calculate not so unlikely (from their view) probability their relatives will be re-incarnated as a cow in the factory farm in Brazil, who will be killed with their friends and family so their body can be lunch for American fast-food addicts.

    Pigs, cats, rats and dogs take human flesh and sometimes act accordingly to their previous identity.
     
    It depends if you view about re-incarnation is more like Druze, who believe only similar things will be re-incarnated to similar things, or like Buddhists who believe there can be re-incarnation in even different species of animal.

    Also how gradually you would move between categories or can be a change between very different types of animal.

  359. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Dmitry


    In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.
     
    Alternatively, such religions may exist in order to ensure inbreeding. Druze symbol is rainbow star - are they a rainbow nation?

    Since Protestants allowed for cousin marriages again after their Catholic ban, it certainly is an issue more important than almost anything else for some people. Almost any religion which tried to ban inbreeding - like Judaism - has seen some backlash.

    Also the belief in reincarnation seems to have been somehow correlated with inbreeding. For example, Tibetan Buddhists usually look for reincarnations of their lamas among families of the deceased (this is what made me to stop entertaining a belief in reincarnation too, when I tried to become Buddhist).
    In Sephardic rabbinic Judaism, Maimonides, a strong believer in cousin marriages, apparently believed in reincarnation too.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul

    Muslims do not believe in reincarnation, but there is a saying in the Qur’an: “(God) will make you alive, then make you dead, then make you alive again and then you will return unto Him”. The batini esoteric ghulat sects sometimes believed in reincarnation. The Ismaili supposedly did, the Druz are descended from some among the most extreme ghulat sects.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batiniyya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghulat

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Here a review of Tibetan marriage customs:

    https://issuu.com/ntsepag/docs/tibetan_marriage_custom.pptx

    Buddhism apparently tried to root out cousin marriages, which came from the earlier Tibetan shamanic religion, Boen, to which Tibetan Buddhism owes a lot of its "magical" practices.

    Polygamy and polyandry also should create a lot of inbreeding.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  360. @LatW
    @Mikel

    I'm not arguing against the referendum. I'd support the idea.

    I'm saying that the decision is still essentially democratic (Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency, one of the biggest Swedish parties, the Moderaterna have supported NATO membership for years, their militaries have also worked in concert with NATO militaries for years, especially in Sweden's case). Also, the way the political culture works in Scandinavia is that, had the population asked for a referendum, loud enough, it would have been carried out.

    If a referendum was held today, the results would be in favor of NATO - it's been a year since the invasion started, a year would have been long enough to debate. The result would be the same in a hypothetical referendum as is shown in those polls.

    After the war is over, nothing will change in Scandinavians' attitudes, because the world has now changed. It's not the old world anymore where they had the luxury to be neutral.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Greasy William

    Swedes and Finns are not children in the hands of their governments, they have agency

    People don’t have agency and are basically children. They think whatever their elites tell them to think. Swedes and Finns are certainly no exception.

  361. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird, @Leaves No Shadow, @QCIC

    That’s reasonable. The Kim Kardashian aesthetic of heavy “contouring” has been almost all-conquering. “Almost” because the Fox News aesthetic of plastic bottled blonde also does well in its areas. Nonetheless television is still full of beautiful people, far in excess of society. I think you can decry the fakeness and the above two trends, while recognising this. Just the difference in obesity rates should be enough!

    On obesity, Hanania is right on when he points out that, though people generally blame it on their pet issue, the truth is that food is cheaper than ever and tastier than ever, and this, by itself, can explain obesity. Unfortunately for humans, tastier and healthier, do not align, unless healthy is the old school definition of “most calories.”

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I find it really strange, and indicative of the schizophrenic nature of our society, that on one hand we elevate the insane and fake beauty standards of the derivative and filtered Instagram hottie, while also saying that being morbidly obese is just fine and dandy and as good looking as anything else. As far as I'm concerned, both extremes are pathological.

    I do think that much of the obesity does stem from lack of exercise and too much food, but I also think there may be more going on. I've seen studies that indicate that even holding calories steady makes people fatter than they were 40 years ago. The fat packing seems to effect women more than men on average.

    I would expect that there might be a widespread metabolic/ hormonal component that is fundamentally different. It does seem that a lot of emerging science indicates that metabolic and hormonal regulation is tied to strenuous exercise in fundamental ways. The fall off in physical activity may be enough to create a tailspin in metabolic functioning, but I'm sure all the chemicals, synthetic hormones, etc. contribute. Even oral birth control, which is pretty ubiquitous can be bad
    that way.

    Whatever is going on it's not good. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I was going through old yearbooks from my grandparents and consistently there was perhaps one or two chubby girls (not even really fat) in the entire high school. It's a huge change!

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  362. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul

    Muslims do not believe in reincarnation, but there is a saying in the Qur'an: "(God) will make you alive, then make you dead, then make you alive again and then you will return unto Him". The batini esoteric ghulat sects sometimes believed in reincarnation. The Ismaili supposedly did, the Druz are descended from some among the most extreme ghulat sects.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batiniyya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghulat

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Here a review of Tibetan marriage customs:

    https://issuu.com/ntsepag/docs/tibetan_marriage_custom.pptx

    Buddhism apparently tried to root out cousin marriages, which came from the earlier Tibetan shamanic religion, Boen, to which Tibetan Buddhism owes a lot of its “magical” practices.

    Polygamy and polyandry also should create a lot of inbreeding.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Bön was the religion of the Zhang Zhung before becoming widespread in Tibet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhangzhung

  363. @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

    I feel like I’m the one going crazy. People suspicious of the media are all talking about the US bombing the pipelines, even though Nordstream 2 still works, and Nordstream 1 does not. A couple of facts that obviously implicate Russia and definitely not the US.

    Meanwhile, the media appears scared to investigate this for fear that they’ll have to report something which implicates Biden, and so doesn’t seem able to notice the above facts.

    I don’t know how many times I need to restate this for someone, anyone, to notice it, but Russia wanted Nordstream 1 closed and it got permanently closed. Meanwhile, the US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.

    Sy Hersh’s source, a million random words on alt sites, and MacGregor’s unbreakable confidence, can’t change this.

    Furthermore, what’s this bizarre theory about the US having to use a sonar buoy? They would literally just use their ELF network, maintained for nuclear submarines. It is especially good in the Baltic Sea and would be totally untraceable and secure, with no potential for messing up. And what type of intelligence source wouldn’t know about it? The sonar buoy narrative is like a very poorly researched fabulism from a daytime spy thriller.

    To poke at the media again, why are they too pathetic to do the research to point out these very obvious facts? Such cravens, even when they’d easily be right.

    Just for your info, though you may disagree. MacGregor’s huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2. There’s videos of Russia losing 30 armoured vehicles in just single assaults. Now he might say that these are just recces-in-force or whatever, but spring is coming in 10 days and the ground will get a lot worse in the areas they are trying to advance. In other words, that is their time limit to be done with their great attack. Obviously this means that it has already happened and failed. Nonetheless, I do expect him to start talking about Russia inevitably crushing Ukraine as soon as the ground dries out in summer, because he’s been repeating this act since before the war begun. You must surely see this pattern!

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.
     
    US wanted both of them closed: since NS2 was already closed, they bombed NS1. It seems consistent, you are looking for complicated motivations in a simple situation and overthinking it on purpose.

    huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2.
     
    Correct, but it has not been 'huge', it could stay small or gather momentum. Your speculation on the weather is pointless: it is possible to attack during the spring, and we don't know what the weather will be. If the goal is to grind down the Ukie army than the number of villages taken - small towns - is less important than the casualties for each side.

    Both sides project huge losses on the other: the latest front is to convince people that the others suffer more. It would be comical if it wasn't so ghoulishly macabre: "You suckers have hundreds of thousands of dead!!!" vs. "No, you do, we are killing you at no cost to us!!!"....let's be rational and take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that Ukies have bigger losses.

    You argue that Russia is exhausted and won't be able to finish the war - they conquered 20%, not too much. How? Does Kiev have a secret weapon and tens of thousands to throw into the bloodbath? A secret weapon we don't know? Is the Russian morale collapsing? None of that - the most likely outcome is that we get more of the same: Russia slowly grinding Ukies down and taking more land.

    The pro Ukie-side has shifted to emotional wins: counting dead, how much all Ukies now hate Russia, how Russians suffer from the lack of Parmesan cheese, how a smaller Ukieland centered on Galicia(+Kiev?) will be a permanent armed Nato camp on Russia's borders, and "Finland!"...Those are coping mechanisms, it is not possible to evaluate them or predict. But they betray nagging fears that the war is un-winnable.

    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok? How would that happen without triggering a nuclear exchange? If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted? And what does it mean to suffer a 'partial loss' in an existential war? Forget about the weather (we don't know) and think through what is actually happening.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Greasy William

  364. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other.

    HMS was correct in his reply that I didn’t have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins.

    But they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    It's not about genetic similarity, it's about being part of a thread of life stitching the past with the present and going towards the future.

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Exactly, and because chromosome Y does not recombine, your paternal haplogroup will be preserved through generations. This is reflected in the Bible through the fact that males are usually identified by the names of their fathers. It also makes credible the view that Yahwe cares only about preservation of patrilineal lineage, and favorizes men over women in many ways.

    Cousin marriages are about preserving X chromosome, which does recombine so you must mix the similar with the similar to get the similar again. It is a low-tech alternative (I don't call it "natural" since cousin marriages do not exist in Nature) to cloning a female.

    , @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    I didn’t have genetic similarity as such in mind.
     
    Sure, most people do not, but discussion with Bashibuzuk/Ano4 is about the genetic lineage which is what he says he is interested about.

    In this example, your grandchildren will have around similar quantity of your genetic lineage as your nephew.

    Having great-great-great-great-grandchildren, it's like your second cousin has a child, if you use his perspective that genetic lineage is important (although he hasn't really explained to me why to follow his perspective and my superficial response from reading this feels more like robotization of humanity than romance).


    they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

     

    In the perspective of the family tree or normal peoples' view. For example, if you are a Lord of London, then I'm sure you need to have direct ancestry to continue this position. And adopted children can continue the family tradition, even without the same genetic codes.

    But Bashibuzuk/Ano4 writing about the genetic lineage. In this perspective, indirect and direct descendants is not different (unless you think radiation introduced some interesting random mutation in your particular copy of the machine code, or there is some interesting epigenetic effects from your lifestyle especially) .

    For example, if your cousin has a lot of children, after several generations, effect in the quantity of your genetic lineage pushing to the future population, would be the same as you having directly children (although with different quantity needed to attain the same results in terms of the quantity of your genetic lineage that are adding).

  365. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Ron Unz

    I feel like I'm the one going crazy. People suspicious of the media are all talking about the US bombing the pipelines, even though Nordstream 2 still works, and Nordstream 1 does not. A couple of facts that obviously implicate Russia and definitely not the US.

    Meanwhile, the media appears scared to investigate this for fear that they'll have to report something which implicates Biden, and so doesn't seem able to notice the above facts.

    I don't know how many times I need to restate this for someone, anyone, to notice it, but Russia wanted Nordstream 1 closed and it got permanently closed. Meanwhile, the US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.

    Sy Hersh's source, a million random words on alt sites, and MacGregor's unbreakable confidence, can't change this.

    Furthermore, what's this bizarre theory about the US having to use a sonar buoy? They would literally just use their ELF network, maintained for nuclear submarines. It is especially good in the Baltic Sea and would be totally untraceable and secure, with no potential for messing up. And what type of intelligence source wouldn't know about it? The sonar buoy narrative is like a very poorly researched fabulism from a daytime spy thriller.

    To poke at the media again, why are they too pathetic to do the research to point out these very obvious facts? Such cravens, even when they'd easily be right.

    Just for your info, though you may disagree. MacGregor's huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2. There's videos of Russia losing 30 armoured vehicles in just single assaults. Now he might say that these are just recces-in-force or whatever, but spring is coming in 10 days and the ground will get a lot worse in the areas they are trying to advance. In other words, that is their time limit to be done with their great attack. Obviously this means that it has already happened and failed. Nonetheless, I do expect him to start talking about Russia inevitably crushing Ukraine as soon as the ground dries out in summer, because he's been repeating this act since before the war begun. You must surely see this pattern!

    Replies: @Beckow

    …US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.

    US wanted both of them closed: since NS2 was already closed, they bombed NS1. It seems consistent, you are looking for complicated motivations in a simple situation and overthinking it on purpose.

    huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2.

    Correct, but it has not been ‘huge‘, it could stay small or gather momentum. Your speculation on the weather is pointless: it is possible to attack during the spring, and we don’t know what the weather will be. If the goal is to grind down the Ukie army than the number of villages taken – small towns – is less important than the casualties for each side.

    Both sides project huge losses on the other: the latest front is to convince people that the others suffer more. It would be comical if it wasn’t so ghoulishly macabre: “You suckers have hundreds of thousands of dead!!!” vs. “No, you do, we are killing you at no cost to us!!!“….let’s be rational and take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that Ukies have bigger losses.

    You argue that Russia is exhausted and won’t be able to finish the war – they conquered 20%, not too much. How? Does Kiev have a secret weapon and tens of thousands to throw into the bloodbath? A secret weapon we don’t know? Is the Russian morale collapsing? None of that – the most likely outcome is that we get more of the same: Russia slowly grinding Ukies down and taking more land.

    The pro Ukie-side has shifted to emotional wins: counting dead, how much all Ukies now hate Russia, how Russians suffer from the lack of Parmesan cheese, how a smaller Ukieland centered on Galicia(+Kiev?) will be a permanent armed Nato camp on Russia’s borders, and “Finland!”…Those are coping mechanisms, it is not possible to evaluate them or predict. But they betray nagging fears that the war is un-winnable.

    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok? How would that happen without triggering a nuclear exchange? If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted? And what does it mean to suffer a ‘partial loss’ in an existential war? Forget about the weather (we don’t know) and think through what is actually happening.

    • Disagree: Mr. Hack, Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?
     
    You must be of the kremlinstoogeA123 school of thought on this subject. He's always maintained that Ukraine is waging an offensive war against Russia. I've informed him several times already, that Ukraine is waging a defensive war against Russia, trying to defend its own sovereignty and borders. There's no reason for Ukraine to try and do something foolish like try "to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?" A Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice. :-)

    Closing the Kerch bridge is another excellent option for Ukraine's defensive war against Russia.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted?
     
    Ukraine is never going to be militarily exhausted. That is the problem with Russia's strategy. Ukraine is not 1941 Finland, Ukraine has the manpower and foreign support to fight forever.

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia's strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn't going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Barring a sudden economic collapse of the United States, a Ukrainian breakthrough and the destruction of the Russian army in Ukraine is a matter of when, not if. Seeing this is not a matter of preference or ideology, it's simply a matter of understanding how modern war works.

    As for the idea that Russia can win by just fighting forever, not likely. Without the direct military intervention of the Western Allies (nevermind the blockade of Germany and Anglo American Lend-Lease), a much stronger Russia than the one that exists today would have been forced to accept an extremely disadvantageous peace against the Nazis. Russia attempted the "fight forever" strategy in WWI and it led to Russia suffering back to back revolutions, a civil war and 70 years of Communist enslavement.

    And I say all this as someone who hates the West and hates America, and as someone who has at times been extremely bullish on Russian prospects in this war. On the surface, this conflict appears competitive but in truth Russia is doomed. This shit is over just like things were over for Nazi Germany already in July 1941, even though nobody (except Hitler, ironically) could see it yet.

    The only way I can see Russia even forcing a stalemate (not a victory, that ship has sailed) is if there is a Western economic collapse. The only way there will be a Western economic collapse is if the Yen detonates which proceeds to cause a chain reaction that knocks over all the other fiat currencies including the USD. Unfortunately, the US will be in recession in 3 more months which means the Fed will cut rates which means the Yen will surge.

    I'm all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left. GloboHomo can only be defeated from within, no external opponent can challenge it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @QCIC, @Yevardian

  366. @LatW
    @songbird


    I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe.
     
    Trust me, I understand. It is beyond horror. The biggest horror is the imminent thought of the finality of it.

    In the case of Ireland it sucks particularly because it is a small nation that barely salvaged its language.

    Imagine some rich minority, let's say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I'd flip. That's why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state. Then you can cut in its root. If you're lucky, given the global demographic reality.

    or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.
     
    That is quite peculiar though. A rarity, I would imagine. Would they have arrived from someplace around Oceania? Papua New Guinea? Poor Denisovans, they were absorbed.

    But this just goes to show how widespread this immigration to Ireland has become when you get even such rare types. It's not the fault of these foreign people, it's the fault of the ruling classes.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Sher Singh

    Imagine some rich minority, let’s say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I’d flip. That’s why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state.

    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.

    I mentioned the level of ethnic diversity from Muslim peoples in the small town where I live a few comments ago, if you also included the non-Muslim ethnic minority groups living here, Chinese, South Indians, Nigerians and imagine most of them growing in size as demographic estimates predict, its hard to envisage what sort of common identity might arise or what it would be based around (purchasing German cars?). It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.

    • Agree: Sher Singh, Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Coconuts


    It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.
     
    You have one - wokeness. Chinese or Nigerian girls aren't exactly marrying at 16.
    LatW won't kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

    Older posters are oblivious to total woke victory below 30.
    Youth literacy world-wide is above 95% and the common culture is woke even KSA.

    Afghanistan is the sole exception due to poverty, and smartphones there run Facebook Web.
    ---
    Not saying resistance is impossible, but it won't come from those who created it.
    Mildly ethnocentric, mostly materialist & religiously non-practicing Westerners.
    --
    Anyway, Indian managers seem to have gotten popular due to an old school style.
    Western managers went to disciplinarian leadership military style bootcamps.

    Indian managers kept the older empathetic walk the floor paternal style.
    LatW's worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    , @LatW
    @Coconuts


    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.
     
    I think the Scandis are starting to feel it, that's why Sverige Demokraterna received such decent results lately (although they are a bit fake but better than nothing).
  367. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.
     
    US wanted both of them closed: since NS2 was already closed, they bombed NS1. It seems consistent, you are looking for complicated motivations in a simple situation and overthinking it on purpose.

    huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2.
     
    Correct, but it has not been 'huge', it could stay small or gather momentum. Your speculation on the weather is pointless: it is possible to attack during the spring, and we don't know what the weather will be. If the goal is to grind down the Ukie army than the number of villages taken - small towns - is less important than the casualties for each side.

    Both sides project huge losses on the other: the latest front is to convince people that the others suffer more. It would be comical if it wasn't so ghoulishly macabre: "You suckers have hundreds of thousands of dead!!!" vs. "No, you do, we are killing you at no cost to us!!!"....let's be rational and take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that Ukies have bigger losses.

    You argue that Russia is exhausted and won't be able to finish the war - they conquered 20%, not too much. How? Does Kiev have a secret weapon and tens of thousands to throw into the bloodbath? A secret weapon we don't know? Is the Russian morale collapsing? None of that - the most likely outcome is that we get more of the same: Russia slowly grinding Ukies down and taking more land.

    The pro Ukie-side has shifted to emotional wins: counting dead, how much all Ukies now hate Russia, how Russians suffer from the lack of Parmesan cheese, how a smaller Ukieland centered on Galicia(+Kiev?) will be a permanent armed Nato camp on Russia's borders, and "Finland!"...Those are coping mechanisms, it is not possible to evaluate them or predict. But they betray nagging fears that the war is un-winnable.

    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok? How would that happen without triggering a nuclear exchange? If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted? And what does it mean to suffer a 'partial loss' in an existential war? Forget about the weather (we don't know) and think through what is actually happening.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Greasy William

    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?

    You must be of the kremlinstoogeA123 school of thought on this subject. He’s always maintained that Ukraine is waging an offensive war against Russia. I’ve informed him several times already, that Ukraine is waging a defensive war against Russia, trying to defend its own sovereignty and borders. There’s no reason for Ukraine to try and do something foolish like try “to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?” A Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice. 🙂

    Closing the Kerch bridge is another excellent option for Ukraine’s defensive war against Russia.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice.
     
    Suffice for what? A few videos to get you all excited? That's not winning a war. By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine - by definition required to win a 'defensive war'.

    But the offensive-defensive distinction is by now meaningless: we are unfortunately in an existential war. This is it, the odds are that one side will end up totally defeated, with its face in the mud. Or we all will end up there. The escalations and insane slogans have gradually turned a manageable regional conflict about language, trade and security, into an existential struggle of the virtuous-peace-loving West against the Asiatic totalitarian horde. Or conversely of a neo-colonial-imperial West against the ever-suffering Russia.

    Let's at least enjoy it...it could get much worse very quickly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack, @AP

  368. @AP
    @Beckow


    …make an equivalence between Ukraine erasing Russian culture

    No, the equivalence is with your statement “in accordance with the will of a majority of its people“
     
    And you then proceeded to compare Ukraine's erasure of the Russian language and culture with the German treatment of Jews and Turkish treatment of Armenians. And now you pretend that you really just meant majority will linked them all?

    majority can’t erase culture, language, or people.
     
    If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased. And if the majority find it too difficult to do so personally out of habit, that majority can decide to shut all schools in the language and limit all media in that language. It will also be erasure, it will just take a little longer. In Ukraine there is a combination of the two. Some people have personally switched, some of those who have not done so support the elimination of Russian from all official or public settings such as schools and airwaves.

    Like in 2008 [NATO membership]?…

    No, don’t be dense – in 2008 it was introduced, the odds dramatically grew with each year and after 2014.
     
    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn't; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn't, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has "helpfully" invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin's reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.

    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased? How can a grown rational person say something so stupid…how would that not be a ‘genocide’? Genocide is defined as ‘destroying an ethnic group in full or in part…“, you are proudly advocating for a genocide.

    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time. You often write empty evasive nonsense and I wonder about your critical thinking. Each situation is different, if getting Kiev into Nato is controversial and hard, then the people doing it will game it, manipulate it, wait for the right time – and lie…on second thought, you and I should play poker for real money, you are clueless or pretend to be, it could be profitable…

    Nato was pushed out of Ukraine when the war started – everyone knows it, same as in Georgia in 2008. It can only be reversed with a decisive win against Russia. Anything else would mean a risk so high (nukes, another war) that Nato will not try. That means no formal membership, no joint bases, no missiles on Russia’s border – how is that not a win for Russia? Sending weapons, instructors, training Ukies, emotional statements, are just noise, they mean very little if Kiev loses the war…

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    “If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.”

    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased
     
    You are becoming incoherent in your desperation.

    Genocide is defined as ‘destroying an ethnic group in full or in part…“
     
    When ethnic Ukrainians switch from Russian to Ukrainian and the small ethnic Russian population assimilates it is not genocide.

    Yet in your stupidity and hysterics actually compared this process to the Holocaust and the mass slaughter of Armenians.

    Btw, Russians were themselves always insisting that Ukrainians and Russians are one people. So by that understanding, one version of Russian simply being erased and replaced by another. They used the same logic for Russification in Ukraine, so they have no right to complain about the reversal.

    “Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.”

    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time
     
    When it’s convenient for you, you live to engage in speculation. Yes, and the guy who every year insists he will quit smoking but never does simply never has the “right” time.

    As I explained already:



    Every year that a declaration [that Ukraine will join NATO] is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn’t; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn’t, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has “helpfully” invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin’s reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    Replies: @Beckow

  369. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @songbird


    I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe.
     
    Trust me, I understand. It is beyond horror. The biggest horror is the imminent thought of the finality of it.

    In the case of Ireland it sucks particularly because it is a small nation that barely salvaged its language.

    Imagine some rich minority, let's say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I'd flip. That's why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state. Then you can cut in its root. If you're lucky, given the global demographic reality.

    or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.
     
    That is quite peculiar though. A rarity, I would imagine. Would they have arrived from someplace around Oceania? Papua New Guinea? Poor Denisovans, they were absorbed.

    But this just goes to show how widespread this immigration to Ireland has become when you get even such rare types. It's not the fault of these foreign people, it's the fault of the ruling classes.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Sher Singh

    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can’t really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.

    I know you’re a woman and your opinion matters less than 0 just for the audience.

    [MORE]

    The Indian faces 71% reservation against upper castes in the government.
    Worse than the condition of the white male yet a situation created by the latter.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Sher Singh


    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can’t really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.
     

    This attempted shaming shit won't fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too. Holding so called "most virulent racist" views doesn't bother anybody there.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @S

  370. Sher Singh says:
    @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Imagine some rich minority, let’s say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I’d flip. That’s why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state.
     
    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.

    I mentioned the level of ethnic diversity from Muslim peoples in the small town where I live a few comments ago, if you also included the non-Muslim ethnic minority groups living here, Chinese, South Indians, Nigerians and imagine most of them growing in size as demographic estimates predict, its hard to envisage what sort of common identity might arise or what it would be based around (purchasing German cars?). It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.

    You have one – wokeness. Chinese or Nigerian girls aren’t exactly marrying at 16.
    LatW won’t kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

    Older posters are oblivious to total woke victory below 30.
    Youth literacy world-wide is above 95% and the common culture is woke even KSA.

    Afghanistan is the sole exception due to poverty, and smartphones there run Facebook Web.

    Not saying resistance is impossible, but it won’t come from those who created it.
    Mildly ethnocentric, mostly materialist & religiously non-practicing Westerners.

    Anyway, Indian managers seem to have gotten popular due to an old school style.
    Western managers went to disciplinarian leadership military style bootcamps.

    Indian managers kept the older empathetic walk the floor paternal style.
    LatW’s worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    LatW won’t kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

     

    I don't think you know what you're talking about. You haven't seen Latvian men. You are no competition for them.

    Oh, and thanks for reminding everyone about how crazy you guys are with a comment like that.

    LatW’s worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.
     
    Er.. no. My son will be the manager. And you will keep quiet and stay away.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  371. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow


    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?
     
    You must be of the kremlinstoogeA123 school of thought on this subject. He's always maintained that Ukraine is waging an offensive war against Russia. I've informed him several times already, that Ukraine is waging a defensive war against Russia, trying to defend its own sovereignty and borders. There's no reason for Ukraine to try and do something foolish like try "to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok?" A Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice. :-)

    Closing the Kerch bridge is another excellent option for Ukraine's defensive war against Russia.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice.

    Suffice for what? A few videos to get you all excited? That’s not winning a war. By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine – by definition required to win a ‘defensive war’.

    But the offensive-defensive distinction is by now meaningless: we are unfortunately in an existential war. This is it, the odds are that one side will end up totally defeated, with its face in the mud. Or we all will end up there. The escalations and insane slogans have gradually turned a manageable regional conflict about language, trade and security, into an existential struggle of the virtuous-peace-loving West against the Asiatic totalitarian horde. Or conversely of a neo-colonial-imperial West against the ever-suffering Russia.

    Let’s at least enjoy it…it could get much worse very quickly.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Beckow

    I find it difficult to under stand how the little (and in some cases micro) city states to the west of Moscow can escape the tractor beam of the population of Moscow.

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    The"ever-suffering Russia" got beat back quite decisively in Afghanistan in another proxy war against the US, and managed to run with its tail between its legs, and still to return home and live another day. It had only lost 15,000 soldiers then. In Ukraine, most estimates point to at least 100,000 Russian casualties. Today, Ukraine receives aid from many more countries than Afghanistan did back then, and aided with much better weapons and logistical help. Home is much closer for the Russian military in Donbas than it was in Afghanistan.

    https://static.lsm.lv/media/2022/04/large/2/hndr.jpg
    Time for Putler to recalculate.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine – by definition required to win a ‘defensive war’.
     
    Are you trying to shift the goal posts now, so that victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?

    Putin chose to invade and he gave reasons for his choice. Accordingly, if Russia accomplishes most of its goals it had won, if it fails at most of them than it has lost. The ratio of successes to failures indicate how great or small the loss or victory, with additional factors not mentioned at the start of the invasion also to be considered.

    Putin’s stated goals, in no particular order, were:

    1. De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally. Russians consider even the moderately nationalist government of Zelensky to be a Nazi one. So a reborn Party of Regions in charge. Return of Sovok history textbooks or adoption of Russian ones. Purges of nationalists. They are burning Ukrainian books in newly conquered territory.

    2. De-militarization. Ukraine is to have no army or a small army of no more than 100,000, without missiles and rockets, modern plans or tanks, etc. In other words, it is to be defenseless in case Russia should ever choose to attack again.

    3. Russian language rights. Russian as second official language, Russian schools everywhere, etc.

    4. Ukrainian recognition of loss of Crimea and all of Donbas.

    5. No NATO. This is the easiest one, because Ukraine already wasn’t in NATO and for years was denied admission to NATO despite many declarations. Might as well add, “no Mars base.”

    The most likely result is that Russia fails completely at (1) to (3). Indeed the opposite has occurred at each of them. Ukraine is more nationalistic than ever, even Kharkiv is now fiercely nationalist and anti-Russian. Russian language and culture are being erased. Ukraine’s military is larger, better armed, and more experienced than at any time, and it is loved and trusted by society.

    (4) will still be decided.

    (5) was true before the invasion.

    But Russia likely will will have a consolation prize of gaining additional territory, to compensate for the failure of most of its goals. The question is how much additional territory would be sufficient compensation for utter failing to meet the other goals. Do wrecked Mariupol and some ruined places like Bakhmut mean it was worth it to have a militarized, armed to the teeth, nationalistic, totally de-Russified rest of Ukraine? Only if you are lying to yourself.

    What about the Crimean corridor? That is, the current line of contact. Probably not either, but much closer to a draw. I think a draw would be all of Zaporizhia province, or retaking those parts of Kharkiv oblast that Ukraine took back, and all of Donbas plus Kherson south of the Dnipro. Anything more would be a Russian victory (weak or Pyrrhic one if Russia manages to retake Kherson city or takes the suburbs of Kharkiv, stronger if it takes Kharkiv or Odessa). Anything less (Ukraine holds what it has, or it retakes the Crimean corridor, etc while purging itself of Russian culture and keeping its army and nationalism) would be a Russian defeat. A failure to accomplish most of its goals, with not enough to compensate for that failure.

    Replies: @Beckow

  372. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Here a review of Tibetan marriage customs:

    https://issuu.com/ntsepag/docs/tibetan_marriage_custom.pptx

    Buddhism apparently tried to root out cousin marriages, which came from the earlier Tibetan shamanic religion, Boen, to which Tibetan Buddhism owes a lot of its "magical" practices.

    Polygamy and polyandry also should create a lot of inbreeding.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Bön was the religion of the Zhang Zhung before becoming widespread in Tibet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhangzhung

  373. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other.
     
    HMS was correct in his reply that I didn't have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins.
     
    But they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    It’s not about genetic similarity, it’s about being part of a thread of life stitching the past with the present and going towards the future.

    • Agree: Coconuts, S
  374. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    Ancient Apocalypse ?
     
    Lol we need Yahya to comment about this
    https://youtu.be/Ss8vJNx-iw8?t=73.

    Replies: @Yahya

    The Pyramids were built by aliens. All this talk about an apocalypse is just pseudoscientific gobbledy-gook.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  375. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice.
     
    Suffice for what? A few videos to get you all excited? That's not winning a war. By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine - by definition required to win a 'defensive war'.

    But the offensive-defensive distinction is by now meaningless: we are unfortunately in an existential war. This is it, the odds are that one side will end up totally defeated, with its face in the mud. Or we all will end up there. The escalations and insane slogans have gradually turned a manageable regional conflict about language, trade and security, into an existential struggle of the virtuous-peace-loving West against the Asiatic totalitarian horde. Or conversely of a neo-colonial-imperial West against the ever-suffering Russia.

    Let's at least enjoy it...it could get much worse very quickly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    I find it difficult to under stand how the little (and in some cases micro) city states to the west of Moscow can escape the tractor beam of the population of Moscow.

  376. @songbird
    @LatW


    The only solace I have is that eventually they will end up being additional carriers of my language, which is at least something.
     
    Latw, I have seen visions of horrors you would not believe. Imagine seeing someone who looks like Idi Amin, Jr. commiserating with someone who looks like Papa Doc III about the difficulty of their Irish lessions.

    Imagine going to the Gaeltacht, that remote part of Ireland where the language held on by its fingernails, and seeing a chorus of teenage girls perform Adele's horrible pop songs translated into Irish, with subcons among them, and a guy on the piano, who is so strange-looking that you, with an interest in geopolitics and HBD cannot even identify his ethnic origin. Part non-Javanese Indonesian, and part Papuan?

    (All within walking distance, of half your family roots.)

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies. There is a movie Black '47 which I liked, only because it had a bit of Irish in it, and would have probably disliked otherwise. I liked the star of it, even though he was technically not Irish (he may have been part), he certainly looked the part.

    But I tell you LatW, I don't like to see those scions of African dictators complaining about their Irish lessons, or those people who are 1/8 Denisovan accompanying its singing.

    As much as I love it, I would trade its very trace memory, its every written record, to send them away, and keep them out.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @LatW, @S

    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies.

    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.

    [MORE]

    Hopkin at age 18 singing Turn, Turn, Turn

    • Replies: @songbird
    @S

    Think I once recommended a book to Mr. Hack, written by an officer on a steamship: Tramps and Ladies; My Early Years in Steamers Bisset, Sir James.

    And there is a funny scene in it, where Bisset is shocked to hear Welsh on the bridge. (which was from two of the crew talking to each other.) It is kind of funny because in one way, the book is about technological progress. For example, at the start of his career, he has to make to decision to go into sail or steam, and steam is really something uncertain at that point. And later on, he talks about how an old seaman once told him that nobody will ever see through the fog, or the stormy depths, and then radar and sonar came along.

    But I have seen some pretty alarming video about the new students being taught Wales now, and that was years ago. Believe Progressives really love to give such examples.

    Once had the idea that instead of inventing fake languages for aliens like the Klingons, they should just use things like Welsh, or dead languages like Cornish.

    , @Yevardian
    @S


    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.
     
    Considering Irish is spoken by less than 2% of (elderly) Irish people, and the language as is being taught is frequently utterly bastardised and mangled by its "teachers" passing it on (I once spoke with someone who worked full-time translating Irish into EU documents, who waxed lyrical about this... talk about the ultimate sinecure), I'm not sure if it can be counted as really 'living'. Don't know about Scottish Gaelic or Breton but I imagine the situation there is significantly poorer. Cornish (and Manx, I think?) went extinct as living languages sometime ago, recent attention from hobbyists notwithstanding.
    So really, Welsh could be considered the only living Celtic language, practically speaking.

    Nice. I was learning Welsh as a hobby for a few months at the turn of 2022, being interested in Celtic language and picking it largely for reasons stated above, but also because Welsh is the only Insular Celtic language with a sane orthography (don't know about Breton to judge).
    Although ultimately I found the lack of living material (as opposed to grammars/educational manuals) to work with, whether written or with ultimately too frustrating.
    I'd try looking up various topical keywords in Welsh (a decent litmus test for casual usage of a language amongst young people) on youtube for listening practice and general curiosity, but results were extremely meagre. A lot of videos posted were self-evidently done as part of school projects (I can see it:'activity 5d: make a vlog in Welsh!') or were BBC-Cymraeg videos with under 100 or even 0 views.

    Of course, Wales is a nation of under 1 million people (of whom a 5th to a 3rd are recent English immigrants) and I very rarely look up specifically look anything on youtube in Armenian, unless it's something highly local, and even then it's usually better to read about it.
  377. @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

    Ideologically, they’re obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Terminology is important. To be delusional, one must have the ability to think clearly (at least in spurts). Therefore, the current administration is not delusional. Not-The-President Biden is far gone, well past that threshold. This creates a problem for Hersh and his anonymously sourced piece: (1)

    Sy Hersh Swings and Misses Big

    The most astounding claim in the blockbuster new article from Seymour Hersh alleging that the U.S. is responsible for sabotaging two of Russia’s natural gas pipelines is that the Biden administration is led by a no-nonsense crew of highly capable tacticians. Forget what you’ve heard about secret classified documents turning up in various Biden residences; in Hersh’s telling the Biden White House practices exceptional operational security.

    It is especially telling that the MSM has covered up the highly plausible industrial mishap scenario. The biggest problems with an attack are geography and timing.

    • Why did ruptures happen 17 hours apart?
    • Why were only 3 of 4 pipes hit?
    • Can anyone explain this geography?

    The fact that the events happened at or near bends is strongly indicative that moving hydrate slugs blew out the system from the inside. (2)

    Anyone notice anything interesting about the ruptures at 02:03 hours and 19:03 hours?

    Assuming that the map accurately represents the course of the pipelines; and assuming that the map accurately represents the location of the ruptures … wah-ho, isn’t that interesting, as Dear Old Dad would say?

    Even more interesting is this little tidbit, also via email. Russia was having compressor “issues” on Nord 1, enough that the whole sodding compressor station was “shut down” and a “hazardous production facility”.

    Is anyone else getting the twitchies regarding the fact that at least some of the equipment that keeps the pipeline pressurised was off-line? Just me? Oh, well then. Carry on.

    Why does the Fake Stream Media keep this under lock & key? Could it be that the media is directed by the warmongering WEF of Davos, a city not in the U.S., which wants to reset the entire human race?

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO

    The German Green party, part of the Scholz Traffic Light Coalition, also wanted NordStream gone. Thus, there is no victim when the supposedly injured party actively wanted the supposed harm. This has no impact on NATO.

    If anyone wants to go with attack theories, the German Greens are a more likely perpetrator than the befuddled, incompetent regime occupying the White House. The German Greens had everything to gain and nothing to lose, much like the Poles.

    That being said — NATO is too large, has members pulling opposite directions, and does not have a mission. This has been true for decades. Every unwise expansion brings the defensive alliance closer to disintegration.

    Can anyone imagine Türkiye putting troops on the ground in Ukraine to fight Russia? A political admission of a new but smaller Ukrainian entity would be an irrevocable step towards the irrelevancy of NATO. Although, such folly would almost certainly be vetoed or procedurally mired into never happening.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/joe-biden-anti-apartheid-senate-reagan-south-africa-video-a9547471.html

    Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit. Blasting a pipeline for Senator ANC wouldn't take much.


    Cap Weinberger even twigs how vicious the guy is. "Are you advocating violence senator?" It wasn't an idle question.

    Replies: @S

    , @Not Raul
    @A123

    The theory that the destruction of the pipelines was an accident is interesting. Thank you.

    IMHO, it was probably a Polish attack; but I wish that the possibility that it was an accident got more coverage.

  378. • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    Poland get ready !...Baltics next !
     
    I agree. One can see this taking place in real time in regards to Ukraine, though like yourself, I certainly don't wish it.

    And it seems something similar is in the works in the East in regards to Taiwan and the countries immediately surrounding it, ie China, Japan, Philippines, etc.

    After WWIII, should there be an after and should the advocates of progressive Multi-Culturalism have their way about all this, in the ruins of what had once been Eastern Europe and East Asia, with a knowing smirk the progs will solemnly lecture the survivors about what all this belief in peoplehood and identity (ie nationalism) had wrought for them, that they should give it all up, and submit to the United States of the World.

    A 'knowing smirk' as it will have been the so called 'progressive' advocates of Multi-Culturalism themselves who will have manipulated WWIII into being.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  379. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can't really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.

    I know you're a woman and your opinion matters less than 0 just for the audience.


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403314774136/Feminism_1.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403579023481/IMG-20161008-WA0002.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634403851632750/IMG-20161021-WA0000.jpg

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1016495151557922876/1075634404082331659/IMG-20161021-WA0001.jpg

    The Indian faces 71% reservation against upper castes in the government.
    Worse than the condition of the white male yet a situation created by the latter.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @sudden death

    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can’t really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.

    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too. Holding so called “most virulent racist” views doesn’t bother anybody there.

    • Agree: LatW
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @sudden death

    I'm not trying to shame anyone merely pointing out reality.

    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now and even Romania is importing them.

    East Euros like to get involved politically with the west then claim they're separate.

    As AP likes to gloat they're the core of white nationalist politics so congrats. You're white now!

    Replies: @AP

    , @S
    @sudden death


    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too.
     
    Not only that, shame and guilt have a proper place, ie to bring about correction (in the case of the European colonial powers the cessation of colonialism, which they did cease) and decidedly not to cynically and hatefully be used as a device to induce suicide in another, both individually, and, or, collectively.

    If the latter was the case, there wouldn't be anyone left alive to speak of, either individually or collectively, as just about everyone has done wrong at some point in their lives.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  380. @A123
    @Ron Unz


    Ideologically, they’re obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.
     
    Terminology is important. To be delusional, one must have the ability to think clearly (at least in spurts). Therefore, the current administration is not delusional. Not-The-President Biden is far gone, well past that threshold. This creates a problem for Hersh and his anonymously sourced piece: (1)

    Sy Hersh Swings and Misses Big

    The most astounding claim in the blockbuster new article from Seymour Hersh alleging that the U.S. is responsible for sabotaging two of Russia’s natural gas pipelines is that the Biden administration is led by a no-nonsense crew of highly capable tacticians. Forget what you’ve heard about secret classified documents turning up in various Biden residences; in Hersh’s telling the Biden White House practices exceptional operational security.

     

    It is especially telling that the MSM has covered up the highly plausible industrial mishap scenario. The biggest problems with an attack are geography and timing.

    • Why did ruptures happen 17 hours apart?
    • Why were only 3 of 4 pipes hit?
    • Can anyone explain this geography?

    The fact that the events happened at or near bends is strongly indicative that moving hydrate slugs blew out the system from the inside. (2)


    Anyone notice anything interesting about the ruptures at 02:03 hours and 19:03 hours?

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/nord-292x300.jpg

    Assuming that the map accurately represents the course of the pipelines; and assuming that the map accurately represents the location of the ruptures … wah-ho, isn’t that interesting, as Dear Old Dad would say?

    Even more interesting is this little tidbit, also via email. Russia was having compressor “issues” on Nord 1, enough that the whole sodding compressor station was “shut down” and a “hazardous production facility”.

    Is anyone else getting the twitchies regarding the fact that at least some of the equipment that keeps the pipeline pressurised was off-line? Just me? Oh, well then. Carry on.
     

    Why does the Fake Stream Media keep this under lock & key? Could it be that the media is directed by the warmongering WEF of Davos, a city not in the U.S., which wants to reset the entire human race?

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO
     
    The German Green party, part of the Scholz Traffic Light Coalition, also wanted NordStream gone. Thus, there is no victim when the supposedly injured party actively wanted the supposed harm. This has no impact on NATO.

    If anyone wants to go with attack theories, the German Greens are a more likely perpetrator than the befuddled, incompetent regime occupying the White House. The German Greens had everything to gain and nothing to lose, much like the Poles.

    That being said -- NATO is too large, has members pulling opposite directions, and does not have a mission. This has been true for decades. Every unwise expansion brings the defensive alliance closer to disintegration.

    Can anyone imagine Türkiye putting troops on the ground in Ukraine to fight Russia? A political admission of a new but smaller Ukrainian entity would be an irrevocable step towards the irrelevancy of NATO. Although, such folly would almost certainly be vetoed or procedurally mired into never happening.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Not Raul

    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/joe-biden-anti-apartheid-senate-reagan-south-africa-video-a9547471.html

    Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit. Blasting a pipeline for Senator ANC wouldn’t take much.

    Cap Weinberger even twigs how vicious the guy is. “Are you advocating violence senator?” It wasn’t an idle question.

    • Replies: @S
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here...Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit.
     
    My take on the powerful Irish ancestried political families of New England, such as the Bidens and the Kennedys of Delaware and Massachusetts respectively, is that they have internalized the very same 'values' as the historically slavery corrupted chattel slavery dealing/owning Anglo-Saxon elites of the region that they [the Irish] as imported wage slaves themselves, had somewhat displaced...ie values which feature a disdain of their own, opting instead for a sick fetishization of their Black slaves whom they faux virtue signal about.

    The same paralleling phenomena continues on today with the imported by diktat wage slaves (known by the euphamism as 'cheap labor' and 'immigrants') and their fetishization by corrupt elites who disdain their own.

    Of course, what all this fetishizing and faux virtue signaling by these elites and hangers on over their historic slaves, chattel or wage, has been about in reality is the value of the labor, and now add political power, they are systematically stealing from these people, quite a significant amount, and nothing more.

    You certainly wouldn't want to build a world state based on such slavery 'values', yet that is what the so called 'progressives' are attempting to do.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  381. @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool

    Just an intuitive guess with no required evidence about troop movements specifics - imho, all those lukashenkian dances with military drums, at the same time adding weasealisms like "it must be done without harming our sovereign interests", more likely are meant to keep suspense increasing and therefore notable UA reserves at the north too, while not letting transfer them into east/south where the main RF action may come, but without any RB involvement.

    But we''ll se soon as spring is just two weeks away...

    And if it starts raining, it will be the worst imaginable time again to do or keep doing the serious offensive there.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @sudden death

    Even more open weasealing out of potential offensive together with RF from Lukashenko today – said that will fight alongside only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB;)

    https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2023/02/16/lukashenko-zayavil-o-gotovnosti-voevat-vmeste-s-rossiey-no-pri-odnom-uslovii

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death


    only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB
     
    Have you seen my comment above about Poland getting ready ?

    There will be war. Tell that to your relatives in Lithuania.

    В сторонке отсидеть не получится.

    And anyone who has cheered this conflict is complicit.

    Idiots.

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    Belarussia could easily unify with Russia now. They are going to be a battlefield anyway.

    Replies: @sudden death

  382. @Ivashka the fool
    Poland get ready !

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poland-nato-europe-military-power-president-visit-uk-79h52k5zw

    Baltics next !

    Replies: @S

    Poland get ready !…Baltics next !

    I agree. One can see this taking place in real time in regards to Ukraine, though like yourself, I certainly don’t wish it.

    And it seems something similar is in the works in the East in regards to Taiwan and the countries immediately surrounding it, ie China, Japan, Philippines, etc.

    After WWIII, should there be an after and should the advocates of progressive Multi-Culturalism have their way about all this, in the ruins of what had once been Eastern Europe and East Asia, with a knowing smirk the progs will solemnly lecture the survivors about what all this belief in peoplehood and identity (ie nationalism) had wrought for them, that they should give it all up, and submit to the United States of the World.

    A ‘knowing smirk’ as it will have been the so called ‘progressive’ advocates of Multi-Culturalism themselves who will have manipulated WWIII into being.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @S

    These sociopaths are on a worldwide anticrusade. It's religious for them, an unholy duty to fulfill. They won't stop until it's over.

    Replies: @S

  383. @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    Poland get ready !...Baltics next !
     
    I agree. One can see this taking place in real time in regards to Ukraine, though like yourself, I certainly don't wish it.

    And it seems something similar is in the works in the East in regards to Taiwan and the countries immediately surrounding it, ie China, Japan, Philippines, etc.

    After WWIII, should there be an after and should the advocates of progressive Multi-Culturalism have their way about all this, in the ruins of what had once been Eastern Europe and East Asia, with a knowing smirk the progs will solemnly lecture the survivors about what all this belief in peoplehood and identity (ie nationalism) had wrought for them, that they should give it all up, and submit to the United States of the World.

    A 'knowing smirk' as it will have been the so called 'progressive' advocates of Multi-Culturalism themselves who will have manipulated WWIII into being.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    These sociopaths are on a worldwide anticrusade. It’s religious for them, an unholy duty to fulfill. They won’t stop until it’s over.

    • Replies: @S
    @Ivashka the fool


    These sociopaths are on a worldwide anticrusade. It’s religious for them, an unholy duty to fulfill. They won’t stop until it’s over.
     
    Yes, whatever one's political or ideological background, even if largely indifferent or simply neutral, you try to peacably agree to disagree with the modern day so called 'progressive', in particular the 'woke' type, and go your own separate ways, live and let live, etc, they won't have it.

    The modern day progs are a lot like Glen Close's 'Alex' character in Fatal Attraction.

    As you say, 'they won't stop until it's over':

    https://youtu.be/hd521kE7f0A

  384. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice.
     
    Suffice for what? A few videos to get you all excited? That's not winning a war. By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine - by definition required to win a 'defensive war'.

    But the offensive-defensive distinction is by now meaningless: we are unfortunately in an existential war. This is it, the odds are that one side will end up totally defeated, with its face in the mud. Or we all will end up there. The escalations and insane slogans have gradually turned a manageable regional conflict about language, trade and security, into an existential struggle of the virtuous-peace-loving West against the Asiatic totalitarian horde. Or conversely of a neo-colonial-imperial West against the ever-suffering Russia.

    Let's at least enjoy it...it could get much worse very quickly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    The”ever-suffering Russia” got beat back quite decisively in Afghanistan in another proxy war against the US, and managed to run with its tail between its legs, and still to return home and live another day. It had only lost 15,000 soldiers then. In Ukraine, most estimates point to at least 100,000 Russian casualties. Today, Ukraine receives aid from many more countries than Afghanistan did back then, and aided with much better weapons and logistical help. Home is much closer for the Russian military in Donbas than it was in Afghanistan.
    Time for Putler to recalculate.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack

    Wrong analogy, US last year run with its tail between its legs even more embarrassingly after losing a 21-year war in Afghanistan. US and Nato invested more, longer, lost thousands of lives and achieved nothing. It is a different geography, mentality, demographics, logistics from Ukraine.

    How is Kiev going to win? try to be specific and visualize how it would work. Then consider the odds for each step and the unavoidable fact that in wars when the enemy is in sight, so are you. It looks tome that Ukies have done the best they could, it has come up short, now they try to keep it going as long as possible, hoping for a miracle - but there is no imaginable victory for Kiev in this war. Once you realize that, you make the best deal possible and save lives. Or you can hallucinate about Kabul, Hitler, marching on Moscow, arms depots blown up, blabla...in the long run none of that means anything.

  385. @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Even more open weasealing out of potential offensive together with RF from Lukashenko today - said that will fight alongside only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB;)

    https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2023/02/16/lukashenko-zayavil-o-gotovnosti-voevat-vmeste-s-rossiey-no-pri-odnom-uslovii

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB

    Have you seen my comment above about Poland getting ready ?

    There will be war. Tell that to your relatives in Lithuania.

    В сторонке отсидеть не получится.

    And anyone who has cheered this conflict is complicit.

    Idiots.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool

    This is worthless posturing without proposed timeframes, everything can happen in an undefined future, but you know the context I'm posting it - about several next months.

    And ofc there exists that 5% chance of Luka/Putka preparing the Gleiwitz incident Nr.2 as we speak;)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  386. @LatW
    @AP


    But I share with my local Romantics an aversion towards foreign invaders.
     
    You come into a contradiction here. An Empire is quite commonly based on foreign invasion. Not to get into the particularities of Austro-Hunagarian or PLC, but for instance the Russian Empire, which you too seem to lionize and admire, was built at the expense of others. Starting with Ivan the Terrible who razed Livonia. So the Empire was built at the expense of the nation (even if you do not consider those entities at the time full-on "nations", and even if they belong to other Empires or state formations, they were pure and untouched but were exploited by the Empires, eventually those nations were fed up and formed nation states).

    I have nothing against your stance, some contradictions are inevitable and you are mostly consistent. But this is a rather critical point. There simply would be no Ukraine without Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians would all still be "tuteshni" who can be exploited by this or that lord who comes and goes.

    Replies: @AP

    You come into a contradiction here. An Empire is quite commonly based on foreign invasion

    Yes, but not always. A-H was mostly put together by marriages and diplomatic maneuvers. And liberating lands from the Turks. The second reich’s occasional colonies in the South Pacific and Africa weren’t much.

    the Russian Empire, which you too seem to lionize and admire, was built at the expense of others

    I oppose invasions of Christian lands but not liberation from Islam and conversion of heathens. I am a fan of Spain, for example, but not of Cromwell. Russian Empire engaged in both; it’s behavior in Europe was bad but protection of Christians in the Caucuses and Middle East good. A strong PLC would have forced Russia to do mostly good.

    There simply would be no Ukraine without Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainians would all still be “tuteshni” who can be exploited by this or that lord who comes and goes.

    One of the most effective commanders in the 1863 rebellion against Russia was lord Edmund Rozycki. His Volhynian peasant troops called him Batko and marched into battle singing Ruthenian (Ukrainian) songs. Pre-nationalist Ukrainians fought the Turks and Muscovites for centuries.

    You do have a point, that nationalism inspires people on all sides to engage in mass mobilization across large areas, and to slaughter one another on a mass scale. The peasants, lords, and priests of the Vendee fought heroically but in the end succumbed to the nationalist masses, who in turned rolled through the Continent.

    This has not been a good thing for Europe. I suppose if, say, the French en masse invade a lot of small German kingdoms and duchies it is a lesser evil for the peoples of those statelets do band together under the inspiration of nationalism and expel the foreign invader then to be conquered piecemeal. But you see that in the long run this has been a negative process for everyone. It eventually led to the catastrophe of the world wars.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  387. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow


    There are no lack of beautiful people on American television.
     
    Actually, I would say that there is no lack of fake looking people on television. The fakeness takes on a strange ugliness when it gets to point. Madonna makes that point! I tend to prefer women that look like humans rather than space aliens, so the Kardashians et. al. are straight out!

    I rather like older movies for the relative normality of the actors.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @songbird, @Leaves No Shadow, @QCIC

    You can always stop watching TV. Problem solved!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @QCIC

    Except for billboards and other advertisements, and seeing degenerated people, IRL. Once saw what looked like an actual cow standing up, and in a miniskirt. (I mean like 400 lbs.)

    @At Leaves No Shadow:

    Standards in beauty of media have clearly degenerated, in a number of ways. Just to name a few:
    1.)older starlets (who they treat like they are still supposed to be sexy.)
    2.) boy-style hair cuts for women
    3.) high level of blackwashing, as well as inserting blacks into period pieces
    4.) high level of depiction of unrealistic interracial relationships
    5.) promotion of starlets often described as weird-looking (Kristen Stewart, Anne Hatheway, etc.) Or see that weird-looking woman playing the terminator in Terminator: Dark Fate. We don't see starlets with the same level of beauty, as when there were actresses like Veronica Lake.
    6.) promotion of less than masculine looking or acting men. (watched the Kennel Club Murder Case, 1933 earlier this year. And it was remarkable: main character was supposed to be a fop, and he was more masculine than 95% of men depicted today.

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @Barbarossa
    @QCIC

    Well actually I don't have a TV, so I'm already ahead of that curve! I suppose when I said TV I could have expanded that to the greater entertainment industrial complex.

    But as I said I don't watch many new movies and stick to a lot of older stuff. It's impossible not to notice the general weirdness though.

    My wife and I did binge on about 10 or so "Honest Trailers" on YouTube the other evening. That's a nice balance since I can witness the full extent of cultural stupidification while being eternally grateful that I didn't waste 2 hours on any of those movies!

    Replies: @QCIC

  388. @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO

    Of course this will only happen if the higher-ups know a lot more than we do.

  389. From Pavel Pryanikov (with minor corrections).

    The politicized intelligentsia is still looking for some connection to the significant date of Putin’s speech planned on February 21st.

    There are talks about the election of the first Tsar Romanov, although the event of February 21, 1613 was according to the old style (Julian), according to the new (Gregorian) it would be March 3.

    For those who wish, you can imagine other such significant events on February 21:

    – Russian troops crossed the border with Sweden without prior declaration of war, thereby starting the Finnish War (in alliance with Denmark and France), during which Sweden ceded Finland (1808).

    – The start of the bloodiest battle during WWI – Verdun (1916).

    – An agreement was signed on the settlement of the political crisis in Ukraine, signed by the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych and the leaders of the Ukrainian parliamentary opposition through the mediation of representatives of the European Union (2014).

  390. @Mr. Hack
    @Beckow

    The"ever-suffering Russia" got beat back quite decisively in Afghanistan in another proxy war against the US, and managed to run with its tail between its legs, and still to return home and live another day. It had only lost 15,000 soldiers then. In Ukraine, most estimates point to at least 100,000 Russian casualties. Today, Ukraine receives aid from many more countries than Afghanistan did back then, and aided with much better weapons and logistical help. Home is much closer for the Russian military in Donbas than it was in Afghanistan.

    https://static.lsm.lv/media/2022/04/large/2/hndr.jpg
    Time for Putler to recalculate.

    Replies: @Beckow

    Wrong analogy, US last year run with its tail between its legs even more embarrassingly after losing a 21-year war in Afghanistan. US and Nato invested more, longer, lost thousands of lives and achieved nothing. It is a different geography, mentality, demographics, logistics from Ukraine.

    How is Kiev going to win? try to be specific and visualize how it would work. Then consider the odds for each step and the unavoidable fact that in wars when the enemy is in sight, so are you. It looks tome that Ukies have done the best they could, it has come up short, now they try to keep it going as long as possible, hoping for a miracle – but there is no imaginable victory for Kiev in this war. Once you realize that, you make the best deal possible and save lives. Or you can hallucinate about Kabul, Hitler, marching on Moscow, arms depots blown up, blabla…in the long run none of that means anything.

  391. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.
     
    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased? How can a grown rational person say something so stupid...how would that not be a 'genocide'? Genocide is defined as 'destroying an ethnic group in full or in part...", you are proudly advocating for a genocide.

    Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.
     
    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time. You often write empty evasive nonsense and I wonder about your critical thinking. Each situation is different, if getting Kiev into Nato is controversial and hard, then the people doing it will game it, manipulate it, wait for the right time - and lie...on second thought, you and I should play poker for real money, you are clueless or pretend to be, it could be profitable...

    Nato was pushed out of Ukraine when the war started - everyone knows it, same as in Georgia in 2008. It can only be reversed with a decisive win against Russia. Anything else would mean a risk so high (nukes, another war) that Nato will not try. That means no formal membership, no joint bases, no missiles on Russia's border - how is that not a win for Russia? Sending weapons, instructors, training Ukies, emotional statements, are just noise, they mean very little if Kiev loses the war...

    Replies: @AP

    “If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.”

    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased

    You are becoming incoherent in your desperation.

    Genocide is defined as ‘destroying an ethnic group in full or in part…“

    When ethnic Ukrainians switch from Russian to Ukrainian and the small ethnic Russian population assimilates it is not genocide.

    Yet in your stupidity and hysterics actually compared this process to the Holocaust and the mass slaughter of Armenians.

    Btw, Russians were themselves always insisting that Ukrainians and Russians are one people. So by that understanding, one version of Russian simply being erased and replaced by another. They used the same logic for Russification in Ukraine, so they have no right to complain about the reversal.

    “Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.”

    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time

    When it’s convenient for you, you live to engage in speculation. Yes, and the guy who every year insists he will quit smoking but never does simply never has the “right” time.

    As I explained already:

    [MORE]

    Every year that a declaration [that Ukraine will join NATO] is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn’t; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn’t, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has “helpfully” invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin’s reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...becoming incoherent...
     
    I will take that as an admission that you have no answer. You lost the argument so you repeat the same nonsense without any critical thinking. Go on, the consequences for you will be unpleasant when your mad dream supported by anti-Russian racism and by lying collapses. I am even willing to bet that it will happen this year.

    You will be lucky if your small Galician refuge is left alone. You can put up Bandera statues, answer phones, hate the "Russians" all day long. And on to maybe settle the scores with the Poles...must be something in the water in that region...even Nazis thought of the Galician fanatics as being unhinged and inhuman...that's why they used them for the dirtiest jobs.

    Replies: @AP

  392. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Could not agree more.

    The Luciferians manage and govern for their planned reincarnation. They are religiously different and the ones in Christian society are heretics. The ones in Saudi Arabia can be decapitated in the public square no problem if you ask me.

  393. @Dmitry
    @Coconuts


    children my line of descent wouldn’t continue.
     
    It won't continue anyway, unless your children marry each other. Your children have 1/2 of your descent, your grandchildren 1/4, your great-grandchildren 1/8.

    By great-grandchildren (i.e. 3 generations), are not more related to you than your cousins. So, if you have great-grandchildren or cousins, are not different, in terms of the genetic similarity to you.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins. In a century after you die, nobody will be closely related to you, unless your children were marrying each other (or cloning their parents), the closest relations will be like second cousins.

    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.

    -

    *In the context of religions like Druze, for example, there can be some rationality there for the inbreeding, as they want to be re-incarnated as Druze again and might believe this requires the same blood.

    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This time, you may be born as a European, next time, you may be born…a black, or a Jew
     

    Well, there is a the first time, I can see a rational argument for worrying about the future population size, after you are dead. This is re-incarnation.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible "appointments" for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Sure, but if we’re embracing a world in which reincarnation is real, let’s embrace the whole world view and metaphysics of it – that there is some great Intelligence directing it all.

    In that case, if there will be fewer humans to reincarnate into, then that means fewer sentient beings need to be human.

    For myself becoming an animal would, if the circumstances are right, be a ton of fun – but I suppose that applies to being human too.

    In most of the traditions that believe in reincarnation, it isn’t “desirable” – to return to this world is a failure, you haven’t succeeded in freeing yourself from karma.

  394. @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death


    only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB
     
    Have you seen my comment above about Poland getting ready ?

    There will be war. Tell that to your relatives in Lithuania.

    В сторонке отсидеть не получится.

    And anyone who has cheered this conflict is complicit.

    Idiots.

    Replies: @sudden death

    This is worthless posturing without proposed timeframes, everything can happen in an undefined future, but you know the context I’m posting it – about several next months.

    And ofc there exists that 5% chance of Luka/Putka preparing the Gleiwitz incident Nr.2 as we speak;)

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    A Gleiwitz incident could come on both ends. Especially now that RusFed is weakened.

  395. @Wokechoke
    @A123

    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/joe-biden-anti-apartheid-senate-reagan-south-africa-video-a9547471.html

    Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit. Blasting a pipeline for Senator ANC wouldn't take much.


    Cap Weinberger even twigs how vicious the guy is. "Are you advocating violence senator?" It wasn't an idle question.

    Replies: @S

    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here…Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit.

    My take on the powerful Irish ancestried political families of New England, such as the Bidens and the Kennedys of Delaware and Massachusetts respectively, is that they have internalized the very same ‘values’ as the historically slavery corrupted chattel slavery dealing/owning Anglo-Saxon elites of the region that they [the Irish] as imported wage slaves themselves, had somewhat displaced…ie values which feature a disdain of their own, opting instead for a sick fetishization of their Black slaves whom they faux virtue signal about.

    [MORE]

    The same paralleling phenomena continues on today with the imported by diktat wage slaves (known by the euphamism as ‘cheap labor’ and ‘immigrants’) and their fetishization by corrupt elites who disdain their own.

    Of course, what all this fetishizing and faux virtue signaling by these elites and hangers on over their historic slaves, chattel or wage, has been about in reality is the value of the labor, and now add political power, they are systematically stealing from these people, quite a significant amount, and nothing more.

    You certainly wouldn’t want to build a world state based on such slavery ‘values’, yet that is what the so called ‘progressives’ are attempting to do.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @S

    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @S

  396. @Yahya
    @Max Payne


    Too many soyboys and their “muh white genocide” nonsense (basically 90% of S’s comments).
     
    Perfect description of S's comments.

    Him and songbird can be succinctly described as "whiny white nationalists"

    It's a type I had not previously been aware existed.

    But evidently there are impotent nerds out there who seek solace in their racial identity.

    I'm not sure 'S' is middle-aged. Him and songbird come across as young 20s.

    I sometimes feel sorry for insulting 'S'; since he is so meek and passive.

    But he insists on trying to 'insult' me for daring to disagree with his ideological views.

    Songbird isn't as thin-skinned or ideological; but is simply a repellent racist; thus deserving of every insult.

    Replies: @Max Payne

    But evidently there are impotent nerds out there who seek solace in their racial identity.

    Bigots are bigots.

    A sexist evolves into a racist once he gets laid.
    A racist evolves into a nationalist once he has friends.
    A nationalist…. well you get the idea.

    It’s a pattern. I don’t know why.

    There is no way S’s is in his 20s. No one quotes 60s media that frequently in their 20s. Not these zoomers.

  397. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    So it is Carthage 3.0 I would say. In London there is even a favourite symbol of Hannibal - war elephant - commemorated as the station "Elephant & Castle" [castle is this structure built on elephant to fight from it]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_%26_Castle_tube_station

    Accordingly, Roman Catholics aka Papists were hated for a long time in Carthaginian UK.

    The Square Mile aka City is like Byrsa in proper Carthage - the holy center of power ;) Of course, there is also an aristocratic component in UK - but its king cannot enter The City without an invitation of its Lord Major.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    The new statue of Ruth Bader Ginsberg is Phonecian as Baal. It was sculpted by an exotic ethnic I don’t offhand recall which.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    https://www.skny.com/artists/shahzia-sikander

    Her drawings are more interesting:

    https://i.ibb.co/Mkfqr04/080526-D7-E4-DB-4-E49-ACD8-C856-C6632-C81.webp

    Apparently a fan of curled horns.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Ye Gods! (And tentacled demony thingies apparently)

    That really is supposed to be a "tribute" to RBG.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/8-foot-tall-demon-looking-ruth-bader-ginsburg-tribute-in-nyc-perplexes-viewers-as-much-as-mlk-statue/ar-AA16Onxr

    I had to look that up, since what you said didn't make a lick of sense.

    The artist says...
    "reconsiders traditional representations of power in public spaces and recasts civic structures to better reflect 21st-century social mores.”

    It still doesn't make sense, so all I can say is W. T. F.
    Social mores? Like...having tentacles?!? Someone sure learned to pile the BS on in art school.

    Can someone please stop the 21'st century, I'd like to get off now.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  398. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    The new statue of Ruth Bader Ginsberg is Phonecian as Baal. It was sculpted by an exotic ethnic I don't offhand recall which.

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/01/28/multimedia/24courtsculpture7-bkcf/24courtsculpture7-bkcf-superJumbo.jpg

    Replies: @Yahya, @Barbarossa

    https://www.skny.com/artists/shahzia-sikander

    Her drawings are more interesting:

    Apparently a fan of curled horns.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?

    It's pretty out there. They claim Amon Ra's ram horns are a symbolism for the thalamus superstructure and the "fused legs" on the statuary is a symbolism for front view of the brain stem.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/1806_The_Hypothalamus-Pituitary_Complex.jpg

    Let me rephrase that. It's way out there. But they held my attention.

    Replies: @Yahya

  399. @S
    @songbird


    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies.
     
    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.


    https://youtu.be/aUsIYDcDo28

    Hopkin at age 18 singing Turn, Turn, Turn...

    https://youtu.be/5dJQR1bBFvM

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    Think I once recommended a book to Mr. Hack, written by an officer on a steamship: Tramps and Ladies; My Early Years in Steamers Bisset, Sir James.

    And there is a funny scene in it, where Bisset is shocked to hear Welsh on the bridge. (which was from two of the crew talking to each other.) It is kind of funny because in one way, the book is about technological progress. For example, at the start of his career, he has to make to decision to go into sail or steam, and steam is really something uncertain at that point. And later on, he talks about how an old seaman once told him that nobody will ever see through the fog, or the stormy depths, and then radar and sonar came along.

    But I have seen some pretty alarming video about the new students being taught Wales now, and that was years ago. Believe Progressives really love to give such examples.

    Once had the idea that instead of inventing fake languages for aliens like the Klingons, they should just use things like Welsh, or dead languages like Cornish.

    • Thanks: S
  400. @AP
    @Beckow


    “If majority decide to stop using a language then that language is erased.”

    Really? So if in Quebec 3 out of 5 million French speakers switch to English, the remaining 2 million French speakers are automatically erased
     
    You are becoming incoherent in your desperation.

    Genocide is defined as ‘destroying an ethnic group in full or in part…“
     
    When ethnic Ukrainians switch from Russian to Ukrainian and the small ethnic Russian population assimilates it is not genocide.

    Yet in your stupidity and hysterics actually compared this process to the Holocaust and the mass slaughter of Armenians.

    Btw, Russians were themselves always insisting that Ukrainians and Russians are one people. So by that understanding, one version of Russian simply being erased and replaced by another. They used the same logic for Russification in Ukraine, so they have no right to complain about the reversal.

    “Every year that a declaration is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.”

    How would you know? They simply waited for the right time
     
    When it’s convenient for you, you live to engage in speculation. Yes, and the guy who every year insists he will quit smoking but never does simply never has the “right” time.

    As I explained already:



    Every year that a declaration [that Ukraine will join NATO] is made but not fulfilled decreases the odds and instead indicates an increasing probability that the oft-repeated, never fulfilled declaration is just empty words.

    If in 2008 someone says he will quit smoking but doesn’t; in 2009 he says the same, thing, and doesn’t, and so on every year until 2023 one can conclude that it is very unlikely that this person will ever quit smoking.

    Moreover, after 2014 the territorial dispute legally prevented Ukrainian NATO membership.

    Of course, this could have been circumvented (Ukraine could drop its claims to Crimea and Donbas; NATO could change its rules) but this conflict decreased the odds of Ukrainian NATO membership further. It meant that accepting Ukraine into NATO would make NATO a party to this conflict with Russia.

    Russia has “helpfully” invaded Ukraine with the result that NATO is now actively helping Ukraine against Russia by pouring its weapons into Ukraine, training Ukrainians on a much higher level, providing intelligence data to Ukraine for targeting and killing Russian troops, etc. Putin’s reckless act has resulted in NATO already being in a semi-war situation with Russia, something that had not been the case prior to 2022. He has forced NATO to place its foot in the pool, so to speak. He has forced NATO to already be part of the conflict against Russia, just not openly or with its own troops. NATO membership would be a smaller step now than before 2022. As a result, the odds of NATO membership have increased.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …becoming incoherent…

    I will take that as an admission that you have no answer. You lost the argument so you repeat the same nonsense without any critical thinking. Go on, the consequences for you will be unpleasant when your mad dream supported by anti-Russian racism and by lying collapses. I am even willing to bet that it will happen this year.

    You will be lucky if your small Galician refuge is left alone. You can put up Bandera statues, answer phones, hate the “Russians” all day long. And on to maybe settle the scores with the Poles…must be something in the water in that region…even Nazis thought of the Galician fanatics as being unhinged and inhuman…that’s why they used them for the dirtiest jobs.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    I will take that as an admission that you have no answer
     
    It’s an admission that I couldn’t decipher your word salad. Calm down and try again.

    And now since you were defeated in arguing, you are reduced to empty insults about Galicians.
  401. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    https://www.skny.com/artists/shahzia-sikander

    Her drawings are more interesting:

    https://i.ibb.co/Mkfqr04/080526-D7-E4-DB-4-E49-ACD8-C856-C6632-C81.webp

    Apparently a fan of curled horns.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?

    It’s pretty out there. They claim Amon Ra’s ram horns are a symbolism for the thalamus superstructure and the “fused legs” on the statuary is a symbolism for front view of the brain stem.

    Let me rephrase that. It’s way out there. But they held my attention.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?
     
    Never heard of it.

    I do wonder why these people go out of their way to boost Ancient Egypt.

    Usually this sort of boosterism is done by ethno-nationalists; or otherwise people claiming “we wuz kangz” for their own ethnic group.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  402. Recently, I have been re-watching, or, where they were never broadcast anywhere I was living at the time, watching, many of the old Gerry and Sylvia Anderson TV shows.

    Huge influence on industrial design. Not on big machines, but small gadget to attache-case scale.

    Jonathan Ives, being English, would almost certainly have seen the TV shows.

    His designs of the i-Pod and original i-Phone weren’t brilliant innovations, but clever thefts from much earlier TV programmes. The i-Pod in particular is an exact copy, except for the antenna on the source design.

  403. @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool

    This is worthless posturing without proposed timeframes, everything can happen in an undefined future, but you know the context I'm posting it - about several next months.

    And ofc there exists that 5% chance of Luka/Putka preparing the Gleiwitz incident Nr.2 as we speak;)

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    A Gleiwitz incident could come on both ends. Especially now that RusFed is weakened.

  404. @S
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is a vicious old man. Much like the vicious young man seen here...Biden is a conniving antiwhite piece of shit.
     
    My take on the powerful Irish ancestried political families of New England, such as the Bidens and the Kennedys of Delaware and Massachusetts respectively, is that they have internalized the very same 'values' as the historically slavery corrupted chattel slavery dealing/owning Anglo-Saxon elites of the region that they [the Irish] as imported wage slaves themselves, had somewhat displaced...ie values which feature a disdain of their own, opting instead for a sick fetishization of their Black slaves whom they faux virtue signal about.

    The same paralleling phenomena continues on today with the imported by diktat wage slaves (known by the euphamism as 'cheap labor' and 'immigrants') and their fetishization by corrupt elites who disdain their own.

    Of course, what all this fetishizing and faux virtue signaling by these elites and hangers on over their historic slaves, chattel or wage, has been about in reality is the value of the labor, and now add political power, they are systematically stealing from these people, quite a significant amount, and nothing more.

    You certainly wouldn't want to build a world state based on such slavery 'values', yet that is what the so called 'progressives' are attempting to do.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is an English family name.
     
    IMO, his Alzheimer’s matters a lot more than the origins of his family name.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @S
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.
     
    Yes, that was understood, Biden is an English name. The mother Jean seems to have been wholly Irish. The father, Joseph, about 80 percent English with some Irish.

    Not the best source, admittedly, ie Wiki:

    Jean [Mother] was of Irish descent, while Joseph Sr. [Father] had English, Irish, and French Huguenot ancestry.
     
    Having said that, Biden sees himself as Irish.

    From the Irish Post:

    Biden considers himself Irish.

    Asked if he would speak to the BBC, the Democrat replied: “The BBC? I’m Irish.”

    “James Joyce wrote, ‘When I die, Dublin will be written on my heart.’

    “Well, Northeast Pennsylvania will be written on my [Joe Biden's] heart. But Ireland will be written on my soul.'
     


    Unfortunately, for the Irish, at least some Irish [Biden family relatives] have 'embraced' Biden's Irishness...in Ireland:

    https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2020/11/08111202/GettyImages-1229507977.jpg

    And the United States:

    https://www.irishamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/IMG_0267-1.jpg


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/14/how-joe-biden-became-irish-511637

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/how-irish-is-joe-biden-the-us-presidents-ancestry-and-family-links-to-ireland-explored-205103

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57394351

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  405. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...becoming incoherent...
     
    I will take that as an admission that you have no answer. You lost the argument so you repeat the same nonsense without any critical thinking. Go on, the consequences for you will be unpleasant when your mad dream supported by anti-Russian racism and by lying collapses. I am even willing to bet that it will happen this year.

    You will be lucky if your small Galician refuge is left alone. You can put up Bandera statues, answer phones, hate the "Russians" all day long. And on to maybe settle the scores with the Poles...must be something in the water in that region...even Nazis thought of the Galician fanatics as being unhinged and inhuman...that's why they used them for the dirtiest jobs.

    Replies: @AP

    I will take that as an admission that you have no answer

    It’s an admission that I couldn’t decipher your word salad. Calm down and try again.

    And now since you were defeated in arguing, you are reduced to empty insults about Galicians.

  406. @Wokechoke
    @S

    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @S

    Biden is an English family name.

    IMO, his Alzheimer’s matters a lot more than the origins of his family name.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    All his grandchildren are Jewish too.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  407. @sudden death
    @sudden death

    Even more open weasealing out of potential offensive together with RF from Lukashenko today - said that will fight alongside only if any foreign enemy soldiers will come inside RB;)

    https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2023/02/16/lukashenko-zayavil-o-gotovnosti-voevat-vmeste-s-rossiey-no-pri-odnom-uslovii

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    Belarussia could easily unify with Russia now. They are going to be a battlefield anyway.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Wokechoke

    easily could/should/would...

    Also, Belarus has been officially unified with RF into allied union state since 1999 already, so you're barking up the wrong tree here, as usual;)

  408. @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is an English family name.
     
    IMO, his Alzheimer’s matters a lot more than the origins of his family name.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    All his grandchildren are Jewish too.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Wokechoke


    All his grandchildren are Jewish too.
     
    Now the US is largely controlled by militant Jews and we have a demented doll, who has no power over anything (likely including his own bladder) posing as the President. Looks like two sides of the same coin.
  409. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?

    It's pretty out there. They claim Amon Ra's ram horns are a symbolism for the thalamus superstructure and the "fused legs" on the statuary is a symbolism for front view of the brain stem.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/1806_The_Hypothalamus-Pituitary_Complex.jpg

    Let me rephrase that. It's way out there. But they held my attention.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?

    Never heard of it.

    I do wonder why these people go out of their way to boost Ancient Egypt.

    Usually this sort of boosterism is done by ethno-nationalists; or otherwise people claiming “we wuz kangz” for their own ethnic group.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    As near as I can tell the market is the Shirley Maclaine Oprah Winfrey New Age glamor lifestyle set and it is an enormous huge market.

    Some things which are popular are not boring at all! : )

  410. @Wokechoke
    @sudden death

    Belarussia could easily unify with Russia now. They are going to be a battlefield anyway.

    Replies: @sudden death

    easily could/should/would…

    Also, Belarus has been officially unified with RF into allied union state since 1999 already, so you’re barking up the wrong tree here, as usual;)

  411. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    Imagine some rich minority, let’s say, an Indian manager lording it over your white working or even middle class son. Or grandson 30 years from now. I’d flip. That’s why one must not have a political nation, but an ethno state.
     
    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.

    I mentioned the level of ethnic diversity from Muslim peoples in the small town where I live a few comments ago, if you also included the non-Muslim ethnic minority groups living here, Chinese, South Indians, Nigerians and imagine most of them growing in size as demographic estimates predict, its hard to envisage what sort of common identity might arise or what it would be based around (purchasing German cars?). It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    If this becomes a common situation in European countries I think you may start to see a breakdown in their fabric even as political nations.

    I think the Scandis are starting to feel it, that’s why Sverige Demokraterna received such decent results lately (although they are a bit fake but better than nothing).

  412. @Yahya
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Have you seen the Magical Egypt speculations where they have Ancient Egyptian artistic motifs mapped onto modern brain anatomy?
     
    Never heard of it.

    I do wonder why these people go out of their way to boost Ancient Egypt.

    Usually this sort of boosterism is done by ethno-nationalists; or otherwise people claiming “we wuz kangz” for their own ethnic group.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    As near as I can tell the market is the Shirley Maclaine Oprah Winfrey New Age glamor lifestyle set and it is an enormous huge market.

    Some things which are popular are not boring at all! : )

  413. @Sher Singh
    @Coconuts


    It feels like you would need some strong religion or political ideology to create one.
     
    You have one - wokeness. Chinese or Nigerian girls aren't exactly marrying at 16.
    LatW won't kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

    Older posters are oblivious to total woke victory below 30.
    Youth literacy world-wide is above 95% and the common culture is woke even KSA.

    Afghanistan is the sole exception due to poverty, and smartphones there run Facebook Web.
    ---
    Not saying resistance is impossible, but it won't come from those who created it.
    Mildly ethnocentric, mostly materialist & religiously non-practicing Westerners.
    --
    Anyway, Indian managers seem to have gotten popular due to an old school style.
    Western managers went to disciplinarian leadership military style bootcamps.

    Indian managers kept the older empathetic walk the floor paternal style.
    LatW's worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    LatW won’t kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

    I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. You haven’t seen Latvian men. You are no competition for them.

    Oh, and thanks for reminding everyone about how crazy you guys are with a comment like that.

    LatW’s worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.

    Er.. no. My son will be the manager. And you will keep quiet and stay away.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Just another middle class midwit who huffs and puffs.


    You will keep quiet and stay away.
     
    Or what exactly? You find protecting family honor more crazy than shelling civilians.

    Glad you're in the EU so you can go down with them.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

  414. @Beckow
    @Mr. Hack


    ...Russian military depot or two close to the Ukrainian border will suffice.
     
    Suffice for what? A few videos to get you all excited? That's not winning a war. By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine - by definition required to win a 'defensive war'.

    But the offensive-defensive distinction is by now meaningless: we are unfortunately in an existential war. This is it, the odds are that one side will end up totally defeated, with its face in the mud. Or we all will end up there. The escalations and insane slogans have gradually turned a manageable regional conflict about language, trade and security, into an existential struggle of the virtuous-peace-loving West against the Asiatic totalitarian horde. Or conversely of a neo-colonial-imperial West against the ever-suffering Russia.

    Let's at least enjoy it...it could get much worse very quickly.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack, @AP

    By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine – by definition required to win a ‘defensive war’.

    Are you trying to shift the goal posts now, so that victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?

    Putin chose to invade and he gave reasons for his choice. Accordingly, if Russia accomplishes most of its goals it had won, if it fails at most of them than it has lost. The ratio of successes to failures indicate how great or small the loss or victory, with additional factors not mentioned at the start of the invasion also to be considered.

    Putin’s stated goals, in no particular order, were:

    1. De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally. Russians consider even the moderately nationalist government of Zelensky to be a Nazi one. So a reborn Party of Regions in charge. Return of Sovok history textbooks or adoption of Russian ones. Purges of nationalists. They are burning Ukrainian books in newly conquered territory.

    2. De-militarization. Ukraine is to have no army or a small army of no more than 100,000, without missiles and rockets, modern plans or tanks, etc. In other words, it is to be defenseless in case Russia should ever choose to attack again.

    3. Russian language rights. Russian as second official language, Russian schools everywhere, etc.

    4. Ukrainian recognition of loss of Crimea and all of Donbas.

    5. No NATO. This is the easiest one, because Ukraine already wasn’t in NATO and for years was denied admission to NATO despite many declarations. Might as well add, “no Mars base.”

    The most likely result is that Russia fails completely at (1) to (3). Indeed the opposite has occurred at each of them. Ukraine is more nationalistic than ever, even Kharkiv is now fiercely nationalist and anti-Russian. Russian language and culture are being erased. Ukraine’s military is larger, better armed, and more experienced than at any time, and it is loved and trusted by society.

    (4) will still be decided.

    (5) was true before the invasion.

    But Russia likely will will have a consolation prize of gaining additional territory, to compensate for the failure of most of its goals. The question is how much additional territory would be sufficient compensation for utter failing to meet the other goals. Do wrecked Mariupol and some ruined places like Bakhmut mean it was worth it to have a militarized, armed to the teeth, nationalistic, totally de-Russified rest of Ukraine? Only if you are lying to yourself.

    What about the Crimean corridor? That is, the current line of contact. Probably not either, but much closer to a draw. I think a draw would be all of Zaporizhia province, or retaking those parts of Kharkiv oblast that Ukraine took back, and all of Donbas plus Kherson south of the Dnipro. Anything more would be a Russian victory (weak or Pyrrhic one if Russia manages to retake Kherson city or takes the suburbs of Kharkiv, stronger if it takes Kharkiv or Odessa). Anything less (Ukraine holds what it has, or it retakes the Crimean corridor, etc while purging itself of Russian culture and keeping its army and nationalism) would be a Russian defeat. A failure to accomplish most of its goals, with not enough to compensate for that failure.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally.
     
    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism. Period. The Polish, Hungarian and Italian gments are nationalistic, nobody would ever call them Nazis. Stop your desperate attempts to include the Bandera-Nazi worship into nationalist Ukiedom. On the other hand, if some Ukie nationalists can't exist without worshipping WW2 Nazis and Bandera, that is a real problem...imagine Georgia Meloni marching under Mussolini banners, or Orban with Horthy...

    victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?
     
    Not in my evaluation of the war, but I suspect most Euro outsiders will have a hard time thinking that Kiev won if Donbas-Crimea become Russian - from their perspective losing two key provinces would be a loss. It matters, even if I agree that it was mostly a done deal before the war started.

    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that "de-nazification' is a slogan and cant't be properly assessed. Demilitarization is real, but it is much more dynamic than you imply and so hard to measure over time. If Russia keeps Nato out and the Ukie army is degraded that goal would be reached - but the timeline and the degradation would have to be defined.

    At the end, the amount of lands Russia controls (or doesn't) will be the main - maybe the only - criteria. If Russia takes Kharkov and Odessa, it would be a big victory...if they go beyond that, Dnipro, Kiev, Lviv - it would be a very big victory - and a catastrophe for the West in terms of perception. If Russia is kept to what ity has now, plus some small gains around Donbas, I would call it a tie, but others could claim a victory in that case for either side.

    We are in the middle of it and this could develop and end very differently - e.g. other countries could be pulled in (Belarus, Poland, Moldova...), the escalation (bombing) in Russia, Poland, Baltic states, a total collapse of one or the other side...and my (least) favorite, somebody decides to go nuclear...If I would be putting money on it, i would go with something "different" from the above list. It has a feeling of an unmanaged crisis with sudden sharp tangents almost inevitable...remember that the only reason none of that happened so far is that Putin is a moderate, boring, careful and very sober guy...he has kept it predictable and safe. Another reason the stupid analogies dont work.

    Replies: @QCIC, @AP

  415. @Dmitry
    @AP

    Humans in the fertile crescent invented farming around 500 generations, while most of our ancestors have farming for significantly less. For example, in Northern Europe, there was rejection of agriculture for thousands of years in Neolithic time.

    This is just talking about farming -

    500 generations vs 1000,000,000,000 of generations of evolution. (Even for human history, farming is only 500 vs 8000 generations, but most of our adaptations were from the prehuman history)

    From any quantitative view, evolution on first side of this "vs" will not very nonsignificant, relative to the other side.

    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.

    Writing was invented by Sumerians around 200 generations past. For many of our ancestors only had experience of writing for 4-8 generations. Humans were living for over 8000 generations without writing and the pre-humans (which is most of our adaptations for the environment) 1000,000,000,000 of generations without writing.

    Replies: @AP, @Yahya

    Evolution moves much faster under man-made conditions then under natural ones. Compare the diverse dog breeds created through unnatural human intervention, to natural wolves who have changed much less and more slowly. So humans who started to engage in agriculture and living in densely populated societies, and then in towns and cities, seafaring, etc. with increasingly complex economic and social relationships can be expected to have evolved much more quickly in only a few thousand years than had their ancestors who had engaged in the same more natural Hunter-gatherer lifestyle over 40,000 years.

    Of course there are limits. Industrial society is only 100-150 years old for most populations. We probably have not yet adjusted to that, and even more so to post-industrial technological society. As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    • Disagree: Sher Singh
  416. Sher Singh says:
    @sudden death
    @Sher Singh


    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can’t really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.
     

    This attempted shaming shit won't fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too. Holding so called "most virulent racist" views doesn't bother anybody there.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @S

    I’m not trying to shame anyone merely pointing out reality.

    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now and even Romania is importing them.

    East Euros like to get involved politically with the west then claim they’re separate.

    As AP likes to gloat they’re the core of white nationalist politics so congrats. You’re white now!

    • Replies: @AP
    @Sher Singh


    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now
     
    Mostly for Ukrainians.

    I spent more than a week in Poland and saw maybe 2 non-European faces among locals.* There was a Filipina or Vietnamese waitress at a nice restaurant in Krakow, another such person with a group of friends. Otherwise zero, and zero outside of Krakow. I did not visit Warsaw though.

    * There was diversity among aid workers at the Polish-Ukrainian border and a black guy among the American military trainers in Reszow.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  417. @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    LatW won’t kill her daughter over bringing home an Indian just huff and puff.

     

    I don't think you know what you're talking about. You haven't seen Latvian men. You are no competition for them.

    Oh, and thanks for reminding everyone about how crazy you guys are with a comment like that.

    LatW’s worst nightmare is her son liking the Indian manager due to it.
     
    Er.. no. My son will be the manager. And you will keep quiet and stay away.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Just another middle class midwit who huffs and puffs.

    You will keep quiet and stay away.

    Or what exactly? You find protecting family honor more crazy than shelling civilians.

    Glad you’re in the EU so you can go down with them.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    You find protecting family honor
     
    You talk as if there is no middle ground between the woke crazy and your crazy.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  418. @Wokechoke
    @S

    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @S

    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.

    Yes, that was understood, Biden is an English name. The mother Jean seems to have been wholly Irish. The father, Joseph, about 80 percent English with some Irish.

    Not the best source, admittedly, ie Wiki:

    Jean [Mother] was of Irish descent, while Joseph Sr. [Father] had English, Irish, and French Huguenot ancestry.

    Having said that, Biden sees himself as Irish.

    From the Irish Post:

    Biden considers himself Irish.

    Asked if he would speak to the BBC, the Democrat replied: “The BBC? I’m Irish.”

    “James Joyce wrote, ‘When I die, Dublin will be written on my heart.’

    “Well, Northeast Pennsylvania will be written on my [Joe Biden’s] heart. But Ireland will be written on my soul.’

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @S

    Biden is definitely an English family name. He's a spooky fake fuck.

  419. An interesting snippet in that article about Poland’s potential military role in Eastern Europe, a comment on the dynamics of the Polish-German relationship:

    “Germany thinks it is in the right on migration, on the financially irresponsible south, on the rule of law in the east,” said Piotr Buras, senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations, “but now Germany is on the wrong side of the moral argument — so the Polish government saw it as their moment to seize the high ground. We have been right on energy security, on dealing with Putin, on defence spending.”

    This is quite subtle, but what exactly is meant by “migration” here? Most likely that Germany supports a more liberal migration policy for Europe than Poland does and that they believe that they are “in the right about it” as in everyone should follow that example.

    So there may be an opportunity here for those with a more conservative outlook to put their foot in the door and formulate an alternative vision for migration.

  420. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Just another middle class midwit who huffs and puffs.


    You will keep quiet and stay away.
     
    Or what exactly? You find protecting family honor more crazy than shelling civilians.

    Glad you're in the EU so you can go down with them.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    You find protecting family honor

    You talk as if there is no middle ground between the woke crazy and your crazy.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let's learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don't really need to worry about them tbh.
    They're Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    @AP https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don't focus on the region. Almost sure I'd be mistreated there, and part of why I didn't go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW, @Barbarossa, @songbird

  421. Saw the movie Interstellar years ago. Thought it was a real snoozefest (think Nolan is mostly over-rated), and wouldn’t recommend it to people who haven’t seen it, but I did like a few small parts of it.

    IMO, the robots had an absolutely brilliant visual design. Completely the opposite of the cyborgs in Terminator, which were made to look like a man, and which had the code displayed only on the inside. Giant rectangles (one named ‘CASE’), with no faces but only code. And the movie was a good idealization (if arguably unrealistic) of robot and man working together and complementing each other.

    I also really liked this one scene:

    [MORE]

    Best scene of modern Hollywood that I can think of, which shows realistic sex differences. In part, the masculine ideal, though there is no fighting. Cooper doesn’t hesitate. He makes the difficult but necessary decision. And here is something really clever: he withstands the high g-forces, while the woman faints.

    Of course, Nolan had an out. He could have said that the one character is a trained pilot and the other isn’t. But that was just an excuse, IMO.

    I’d like to propose something like this as a based alternative to the Bechdel Test: does the movie show realistic sex differences? (not just T&A) Or does it have a butt-kicking babe curb-stomping three men twice her size, all at the same time? And the male protagonist not being a masculine ideal, but a wimp?

    And not everything is about fighting, some times it might come out in the women’s favor. Recall an episode of the X-files, where Mulder and Sculley were stuck on a ship where the water supply was contaminated, and Mulder gave the last of the good water to Sculley saying she would survive longer because the female body has more fat. And of course there is stuff like having children, and psychological stuff. Women sometimes have more social graces. And fine motor skills like sewing.

  422. @Dmitry
    @AP

    Humans in the fertile crescent invented farming around 500 generations, while most of our ancestors have farming for significantly less. For example, in Northern Europe, there was rejection of agriculture for thousands of years in Neolithic time.

    This is just talking about farming -

    500 generations vs 1000,000,000,000 of generations of evolution. (Even for human history, farming is only 500 vs 8000 generations, but most of our adaptations were from the prehuman history)

    From any quantitative view, evolution on first side of this "vs" will not very nonsignificant, relative to the other side.

    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.

    Writing was invented by Sumerians around 200 generations past. For many of our ancestors only had experience of writing for 4-8 generations. Humans were living for over 8000 generations without writing and the pre-humans (which is most of our adaptations for the environment) 1000,000,000,000 of generations without writing.

    Replies: @AP, @Yahya

    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.

    Greg Cochran and Henry Harpending would dispute this assertion. In their book they state that evolutionary pressures accelerated after the development of agriculture; at a rate of 100 times more than the long-term average of the previous 6 million years. The reason is because agriculture supported larger and more dense human settlements; which meant favorable mutations would occur more often. Mutation generation is a function of population size. 60,000 years ago, there were approximately 250,000 modern humans. By the Bronze Age, 3,000 years ago, that number was roughly 60 million. Favorable mutations that had previously occurred every 100,000 years or so were by the Bronze Age showing up every 400 years. The mutations would then spread quickly among the population, no matter how large, because mutations increase in frequency exponentially.

    The agricultural revolution exerted new environmental challenges for humans; which by natural selection we became adapted to. For example; the farming diet was a lot more carbohydrate intensive, alcoholic, and vitamin-deficient than hunter-gatherer diets. This lead to an increase in prevalence of diabetes, acne, tooth aces and alcoholism. People who had genetic variants who could help them deal with these side effects were more likely to survive and pass their genes down. Even a single copy of an advantageous gene could spread rapidly if it conferred a marginally significant survival advantage. That was the case for the alleles regulating skin color (SLC24A5), eye color (HERC2), lactose tolerance (LCT), and dry earwax (ABCC11).

    The allele SLC24A5 came into existence only 5,800 years ago; but it has a frequency of about 99 percent throughout Europe and is found at significant levels in North Africa, East Africa, and as far east as India and Ceylon. In Roman times; chroniclers would note that the Picts of Scotland were dark-skinned. We also know that the indigenous WHG’s of Europe were also dark-skinned 6,000 years ago. East Asians and Amerindians diverged only 15,000 years ago; yet observe the significant differences in physiognomy and behavior between them.

    The evolutionary responses differ by region; depending on when agriculture was adopted. Places where agriculture is the oldest, such as the Middle East, Europe, India and China; have people who are most adapted to agricultural society. Amerindians in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys adopted maize agriculture only 1,000 years ago, but the Australian Aborigines never domesticated plants at all. We therefore see fewer adaptive changes among them and sub-Saharan Africans.

    Evolution has continued at a fast pace even in the modern period. Gregory Clark has outlined the selective process operating on Englishmen throughout the previous 500 years in A Farewell To Alms. He found that the upper class had approximately two times more children than the lower classes; eventually making English society more bourgeois in behavior. Natural selection can operate on a short period of time given a sufficiently large population.

    If an allele affecting behavior had a frequency of 20 percent and a 6 percent selective advantage in a European population in 1500; then over the next 300 years, the frequency of that allele would have doubled, and going from 20 percent to 40 percent. This would be enough to give European society in 1800 some new capability or tendency.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Yahya

    Do the authors take account of the plummeting infant mortality rate that follows industrialisation?

    Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley have a book discussing the possible impact of this, iirc they state that the baseline infant mortality rate in pre-industrial societies is around 50% and this operates as a form of 'purifying selection', removing harmful mutations from the gene pool. Also, not all surviving adults successfully reproduce into the next generation either, which is another layer of selection.

    Since these selective pressures have collapsed in industrial societies, a rapid build up of detrimental mutations is very likely. Following industrialistion evolution also seems to be reproductively favouring a different type of person compared to the past, lower intelligence, more impulsive, higher than average ethnocentrism for the society... Woodley and Dutton hypothesise people with these traits will make up a growing portion of every industrialised society.

    It is not a very heartening read in some ways.

    , @Dmitry
    @Yahya

    Why are you posting to me from texts of pseudoscience anthropology? You know you can go to a bookshop and read the textbooks written by the scientists in the relevant areas.

    I and Bashibuzuk are just beginning discussion in this forum of real science like the anti-gravity technology our ancient Russian ancestors used to construct the pyramids.

    @AP
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-209/#comment-5818081


    diverse dog breeds created through unnatural human intervention, to natural wolves who have changed much less and more slowly
     
    It's not a relevant discussion, they are selectively bred using inbreeding. The animal is not necessarily changing in many areas, but more unusual animals in the population are being selected for a particular aspect which the humans noticed.

    The only humans with this extent of circular inbreeding for some number of generations would be like Hapsburgs and there is no selective breeding introduced to this cycle. Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).


    complex economic and social relationships can be expected to have evolved much more quickly in only a few thousand years than had their ancestors who had engaged in the same more natural Hunter-gatherer

     

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age. And main population bottlenecks were thousands of years ago.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.
     
    It's just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history, or 500 vs 1000,000,000,000 generations for the pre-human evolution.

    Replies: @AP

  423. These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    Cat suffering “respiratory distress” euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    Cat suffering “respiratory distress” euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    U.S.
    More Than a Dozen Trains Have Derailed in the U.S. This Year
    BY THOMAS KIKA ON 2/13/23 AT 7:56 PM EST
    SHARE
    U.S. TRAINS TRANSIT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TRAIN DERAILMENT
    The explosive train derailment that recently led to the evacuation of an Ohio town was among more than a dozen reported rail wrecks in the U.S. since the year began.

    On February 3, a tanker train derailed in the Ohio town of East Palestine, near the state border with Pennsylvania. The crash led to multiple explosions and chemical leaks, prompting the governors of both states to issue evacuation notices for the town and its surrounding areas. Controlled burns of the vinyl chloride from the train’s tanks were initiated, with residents warned that the air could be flooded with dangerous gases like phosgene and hydrogen chloride.

    The fiery crash was one of more than a dozen train derailments reported in the U.S. this year, only 1 1/2 months in. Another wreck, on January 19, also occurred in Ohio, with several train cars stretching over miles derailing between the towns of Trinway and Adam’s Mill, according to the Times Recorder. It was considerably less destructive than the one in East Palestine, as the cars were empty, though cleanup efforts were projected to last for a week.

    https://www.newsweek.com/more-dozen-trains-have-derailed-us-this-year-1780952

    Amid the chaos in Ohio, and two more (one in Texas and one in South Carolina), yet another train has derailed Thursday in Van Buren Township outside Detroit, Michigan.

    Fox News reports that at least one car contains hazardous materials.

    Police told Fox2 Detroit that there were no injuries and the area is not a hazmat situation

    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/another-derailment-train-carrying-hazardous-materials-crashes-near-detroit

    It becomes interesting.

    Are US railroad switches connected to the internet?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Ivashka the fool

    So, we have recurring derailments of trains carrying hazardous materials in the US. The East Palestine accident turned out to be a huge ecological catastrophe affecting both Ohio and Pennsylvania. Did anyone blame Putin yet? If not, why not? It’s about as likely to be Russia’s doing as the sabotage of both NS1 and NS2.

    , @Barbarossa
    @Ivashka the fool

    Personally, I've noticed much more train traffic since the 'Vid agenda goofed up supply chains and trucking costs.

    Before then my impression was that rail infrastructure was rather neglected and going downhill. Which is too bad since rail is a very efficient way to move goods around.

    Aging neglected infrastructure and rolling stock plus quick mobilization for far greater traffic could easily equal a lot of bad accidents like this.

    Switches don't have anything to do with the internet (as far as I know).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  424. @Wokechoke
    @AnonfromTN

    All his grandchildren are Jewish too.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    All his grandchildren are Jewish too.

    Now the US is largely controlled by militant Jews and we have a demented doll, who has no power over anything (likely including his own bladder) posing as the President. Looks like two sides of the same coin.

  425. @Mr. Hack
    @Ron Unz

    I hate to break-up your party, but:

    https://youtu.be/MK9PzKrk_UQ

    https://youtu.be/1CryVKKlxIo

    Replies: @Ron Unz

    I hate to break-up your party, but:

    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    But nearly all of those individuals are directly tied to the American establishment and often employed by it, so how could they say or do anything else?

    That’s exactly what happened during the Iraq War, and some of them had been heavily involved in that as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-life-and-legacy-of-lt-gen-william-odom/

    When the media/political/financial landscape is tilted 100-to-1 on one side of an issue, it’s hardly surprising that you can find lots of people taking that side.

    However, when you find a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side, that really gets my attention and leads me to believe they’re correct.

    Again, they’ve either all suddenly gone crazy together or they’re probably right.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @AP
    @Ron Unz


    Again, they’ve either all suddenly gone crazy together or they’re probably right.
     
    Or they are all disgruntled with the American Establishment and as a result want to take a contrarian view.

    Wasn’t MacGregor predicting a Ukrainian collapse last spring, then summer, then fall?

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Wokechoke

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Ron Unz


    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.
     
    To put it simply, money talks.

    a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side
     
    Very few people value their self-respect more than money.
    , @Not Raul
    @Ron Unz

    Off topic request:

    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.

    Maybe have the thread close 24 hours after the 200th reply, so the average thread would end with about 300 replies.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

  426. @Sher Singh
    @sudden death

    I'm not trying to shame anyone merely pointing out reality.

    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now and even Romania is importing them.

    East Euros like to get involved politically with the west then claim they're separate.

    As AP likes to gloat they're the core of white nationalist politics so congrats. You're white now!

    Replies: @AP

    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now

    Mostly for Ukrainians.

    I spent more than a week in Poland and saw maybe 2 non-European faces among locals.* There was a Filipina or Vietnamese waitress at a nice restaurant in Krakow, another such person with a group of friends. Otherwise zero, and zero outside of Krakow. I did not visit Warsaw though.

    * There was diversity among aid workers at the Polish-Ukrainian border and a black guy among the American military trainers in Reszow.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Honestly have to wonder if there's much a US instructor could teach an Ukie about intensive combat at this point.

    Replies: @AP

  427. @Ivashka the fool

    These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    Cat suffering "respiratory distress" euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    Cat suffering "respiratory distress" euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    U.S.
    More Than a Dozen Trains Have Derailed in the U.S. This Year
    BY THOMAS KIKA ON 2/13/23 AT 7:56 PM EST
    SHARE
    U.S. TRAINS TRANSIT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TRAIN DERAILMENT
    The explosive train derailment that recently led to the evacuation of an Ohio town was among more than a dozen reported rail wrecks in the U.S. since the year began.

    On February 3, a tanker train derailed in the Ohio town of East Palestine, near the state border with Pennsylvania. The crash led to multiple explosions and chemical leaks, prompting the governors of both states to issue evacuation notices for the town and its surrounding areas. Controlled burns of the vinyl chloride from the train's tanks were initiated, with residents warned that the air could be flooded with dangerous gases like phosgene and hydrogen chloride.

    The fiery crash was one of more than a dozen train derailments reported in the U.S. this year, only 1 1/2 months in. Another wreck, on January 19, also occurred in Ohio, with several train cars stretching over miles derailing between the towns of Trinway and Adam's Mill, according to the Times Recorder. It was considerably less destructive than the one in East Palestine, as the cars were empty, though cleanup efforts were projected to last for a week.
     

    https://www.newsweek.com/more-dozen-trains-have-derailed-us-this-year-1780952

    Amid the chaos in Ohio, and two more (one in Texas and one in South Carolina), yet another train has derailed Thursday in Van Buren Township outside Detroit, Michigan.

    Fox News reports that at least one car contains hazardous materials.

    Police told Fox2 Detroit that there were no injuries and the area is not a hazmat situation
     

    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/another-derailment-train-carrying-hazardous-materials-crashes-near-detroit

    It becomes interesting.

    Are US railroad switches connected to the internet?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Barbarossa

    So, we have recurring derailments of trains carrying hazardous materials in the US. The East Palestine accident turned out to be a huge ecological catastrophe affecting both Ohio and Pennsylvania. Did anyone blame Putin yet? If not, why not? It’s about as likely to be Russia’s doing as the sabotage of both NS1 and NS2.

  428. @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Hack


    I hate to break-up your party, but:
     
    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    But nearly all of those individuals are directly tied to the American establishment and often employed by it, so how could they say or do anything else?

    That's exactly what happened during the Iraq War, and some of them had been heavily involved in that as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-life-and-legacy-of-lt-gen-william-odom/

    When the media/political/financial landscape is tilted 100-to-1 on one side of an issue, it's hardly surprising that you can find lots of people taking that side.

    However, when you find a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side, that really gets my attention and leads me to believe they're correct.

    Again, they've either all suddenly gone crazy together or they're probably right.

    Replies: @AP, @AnonfromTN, @Not Raul

    Again, they’ve either all suddenly gone crazy together or they’re probably right.

    Or they are all disgruntled with the American Establishment and as a result want to take a contrarian view.

    Wasn’t MacGregor predicting a Ukrainian collapse last spring, then summer, then fall?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @AP

    I don't see any contradiction between someone being a supporter of the Ukrainian government in this war and also seeing the idea that Russia blew up Nordstream as self-evidently absurd.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Wokechoke
    @AP

    It's not just MacGregor though.

  429. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    You find protecting family honor
     
    You talk as if there is no middle ground between the woke crazy and your crazy.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let’s learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don’t really need to worry about them tbh.
    They’re Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don’t focus on the region. Almost sure I’d be mistreated there, and part of why I didn’t go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Sher Singh

    Local Russians and Ukrainians are fine.
    It's Poles and Germans I don't trust except Eastern Poles.

    Same with visiting Canadian and American Rednecks. They're not used to people matching their insults.

    Anyway, later.

    , @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    Let’s learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.
     
    You do realize that we weren't supposed to be around anymore given our location with our "fantastic" neighbors on both sides. So yea there's that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Gerard1234

    , @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    and part of why I didn’t go fight in Ukraine.
     
    What, for fun? Clearly you don't have any real horse in that race. I have a pretty high risk tolerance, but I'd have no interest in potentially killing or getting killed for something that has nothing to do with me. Seems like there is no honor in that.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @songbird
    @Sher Singh


    Opportunity Lost
    Let's Have Freedom of Movement with India
    The best exotic policy for economic growth
    Ben Ramanauskas
     
    https://opportunitylost.substack.com/p/lets-have-freedom-of-movement-with

    Genuinely thought it was an Indian name, until I looked it up.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

  430. @QCIC
    @Barbarossa

    You can always stop watching TV. Problem solved!

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Except for billboards and other advertisements, and seeing degenerated people, IRL. Once saw what looked like an actual cow standing up, and in a miniskirt. (I mean like 400 lbs.)

    @At Leaves No Shadow:

    Standards in beauty of media have clearly degenerated, in a number of ways. Just to name a few:
    1.)older starlets (who they treat like they are still supposed to be sexy.)
    2.) boy-style hair cuts for women
    3.) high level of blackwashing, as well as inserting blacks into period pieces
    4.) high level of depiction of unrealistic interracial relationships
    5.) promotion of starlets often described as weird-looking (Kristen Stewart, Anne Hatheway, etc.) Or see that weird-looking woman playing the terminator in Terminator: Dark Fate. We don’t see starlets with the same level of beauty, as when there were actresses like Veronica Lake.
    6.) promotion of less than masculine looking or acting men. (watched the Kennel Club Murder Case, 1933 earlier this year. And it was remarkable: main character was supposed to be a fop, and he was more masculine than 95% of men depicted today.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @songbird

    Agree. I can't fix everything.

    Some women look great in short hair (not sure if this is what you meant). They often have fantastic bone structure and other feminine/female traits which look great under all conditions. Sometimes they may be trying to "dress down" with the short hair, but this just rubs in their perfection for other girls.

    Of course they usually look better with more hair, but variety is not a bad thing when we are talking about beautiful women.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

  431. @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Hack


    I hate to break-up your party, but:
     
    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    But nearly all of those individuals are directly tied to the American establishment and often employed by it, so how could they say or do anything else?

    That's exactly what happened during the Iraq War, and some of them had been heavily involved in that as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-life-and-legacy-of-lt-gen-william-odom/

    When the media/political/financial landscape is tilted 100-to-1 on one side of an issue, it's hardly surprising that you can find lots of people taking that side.

    However, when you find a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side, that really gets my attention and leads me to believe they're correct.

    Again, they've either all suddenly gone crazy together or they're probably right.

    Replies: @AP, @AnonfromTN, @Not Raul

    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    To put it simply, money talks.

    a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side

    Very few people value their self-respect more than money.

  432. @Ivashka the fool
    @S

    These sociopaths are on a worldwide anticrusade. It's religious for them, an unholy duty to fulfill. They won't stop until it's over.

    Replies: @S

    These sociopaths are on a worldwide anticrusade. It’s religious for them, an unholy duty to fulfill. They won’t stop until it’s over.

    Yes, whatever one’s political or ideological background, even if largely indifferent or simply neutral, you try to peacably agree to disagree with the modern day so called ‘progressive’, in particular the ‘woke’ type, and go your own separate ways, live and let live, etc, they won’t have it.

    The modern day progs are a lot like Glen Close’s ‘Alex’ character in Fatal Attraction.

    As you say, ‘they won’t stop until it’s over’:

  433. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let's learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don't really need to worry about them tbh.
    They're Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    @AP https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don't focus on the region. Almost sure I'd be mistreated there, and part of why I didn't go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Local Russians and Ukrainians are fine.
    It’s Poles and Germans I don’t trust except Eastern Poles.

    Same with visiting Canadian and American Rednecks. They’re not used to people matching their insults.

    Anyway, later.

  434. We don’t see starlets with the same level of beauty, as when there were actresses like Veronica Lake.

    That is a truth…

    • Thanks: songbird
  435. @songbird
    @QCIC

    Except for billboards and other advertisements, and seeing degenerated people, IRL. Once saw what looked like an actual cow standing up, and in a miniskirt. (I mean like 400 lbs.)

    @At Leaves No Shadow:

    Standards in beauty of media have clearly degenerated, in a number of ways. Just to name a few:
    1.)older starlets (who they treat like they are still supposed to be sexy.)
    2.) boy-style hair cuts for women
    3.) high level of blackwashing, as well as inserting blacks into period pieces
    4.) high level of depiction of unrealistic interracial relationships
    5.) promotion of starlets often described as weird-looking (Kristen Stewart, Anne Hatheway, etc.) Or see that weird-looking woman playing the terminator in Terminator: Dark Fate. We don't see starlets with the same level of beauty, as when there were actresses like Veronica Lake.
    6.) promotion of less than masculine looking or acting men. (watched the Kennel Club Murder Case, 1933 earlier this year. And it was remarkable: main character was supposed to be a fop, and he was more masculine than 95% of men depicted today.

    Replies: @QCIC

    Agree. I can’t fix everything.

    Some women look great in short hair (not sure if this is what you meant). They often have fantastic bone structure and other feminine/female traits which look great under all conditions. Sometimes they may be trying to “dress down” with the short hair, but this just rubs in their perfection for other girls.

    Of course they usually look better with more hair, but variety is not a bad thing when we are talking about beautiful women.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC

    Pixie cut, short hair on women who can sell the pixie look is staggeringly effective. Nicole DeBoer from ST:DS9

     
    https://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ezri1.jpg
     

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @songbird
    @QCIC

    Probably got a suspicious mind, but have suspected that there was something sinister (CIA? Gay mafia?) behind this Silversun Pickups video:
    https://youtu.be/z-mxBDuRaZ8

    (Guy's hair is longer than the girl's.)

    Maybe, it is weird to say, but I have before admired the back of a woman's head. Like the nape, the back of the ears. Which makes me wonder what was the hairstyle of cave-women. I suspect that they did sometimes tie their hair.

    Think I admired a girl with short hair exactly once, in college and that was because she was wearing something that wouldn't have passed the dress code of my high school in multiple ways and directly and unavoidably very up close in my field of view, for a long period of time.

    So, maybe, it proves your point. But I do think most such girls seem to be lesbians, and look a bit off. (Though this one didn't and probably wasn't)

    Probably what I dislike more is guys with long hair. Zeihan has some kind of man-bun or something, and I wondered whether he would have it, if our society wasn't so gay.

    BTW, any opinion on peak Sinead? Think Dmitri said she had a very beautiful face, but I have honestly never been able to see it. (And I would think I would be more susceptible to Irish beauty) Not sure if it is the buzzcut or not.

    Replies: @QCIC

  436. @Ivashka the fool

    These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    These are the worst train derailments in U.S. history
    Cat suffering "respiratory distress" euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    Cat suffering "respiratory distress" euthanized after Ohio train derailment
    U.S.
    More Than a Dozen Trains Have Derailed in the U.S. This Year
    BY THOMAS KIKA ON 2/13/23 AT 7:56 PM EST
    SHARE
    U.S. TRAINS TRANSIT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TRAIN DERAILMENT
    The explosive train derailment that recently led to the evacuation of an Ohio town was among more than a dozen reported rail wrecks in the U.S. since the year began.

    On February 3, a tanker train derailed in the Ohio town of East Palestine, near the state border with Pennsylvania. The crash led to multiple explosions and chemical leaks, prompting the governors of both states to issue evacuation notices for the town and its surrounding areas. Controlled burns of the vinyl chloride from the train's tanks were initiated, with residents warned that the air could be flooded with dangerous gases like phosgene and hydrogen chloride.

    The fiery crash was one of more than a dozen train derailments reported in the U.S. this year, only 1 1/2 months in. Another wreck, on January 19, also occurred in Ohio, with several train cars stretching over miles derailing between the towns of Trinway and Adam's Mill, according to the Times Recorder. It was considerably less destructive than the one in East Palestine, as the cars were empty, though cleanup efforts were projected to last for a week.
     

    https://www.newsweek.com/more-dozen-trains-have-derailed-us-this-year-1780952

    Amid the chaos in Ohio, and two more (one in Texas and one in South Carolina), yet another train has derailed Thursday in Van Buren Township outside Detroit, Michigan.

    Fox News reports that at least one car contains hazardous materials.

    Police told Fox2 Detroit that there were no injuries and the area is not a hazmat situation
     

    https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/another-derailment-train-carrying-hazardous-materials-crashes-near-detroit

    It becomes interesting.

    Are US railroad switches connected to the internet?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Barbarossa

    Personally, I’ve noticed much more train traffic since the ‘Vid agenda goofed up supply chains and trucking costs.

    Before then my impression was that rail infrastructure was rather neglected and going downhill. Which is too bad since rail is a very efficient way to move goods around.

    Aging neglected infrastructure and rolling stock plus quick mobilization for far greater traffic could easily equal a lot of bad accidents like this.

    Switches don’t have anything to do with the internet (as far as I know).

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    I have not seen the footage myself but there is supposed to be surveillance footage of poorly maintained flaming axle from multiple cameras over miles of track. Maybe fake news. But multiple reports from non-newbie userids on conservative and progressive internet sites.

  437. @QCIC
    @Barbarossa

    You can always stop watching TV. Problem solved!

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Well actually I don’t have a TV, so I’m already ahead of that curve! I suppose when I said TV I could have expanded that to the greater entertainment industrial complex.

    But as I said I don’t watch many new movies and stick to a lot of older stuff. It’s impossible not to notice the general weirdness though.

    My wife and I did binge on about 10 or so “Honest Trailers” on YouTube the other evening. That’s a nice balance since I can witness the full extent of cultural stupidification while being eternally grateful that I didn’t waste 2 hours on any of those movies!

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Barbarossa

    I went through an "Honest Trailer" phase, too.

    I think they were better before the lead guy was taken out by "me, to", though he sounded creepy if anything can be believed. Creepy, but not excommunication worthy (IIRC).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  438. @Barbarossa
    @QCIC

    Well actually I don't have a TV, so I'm already ahead of that curve! I suppose when I said TV I could have expanded that to the greater entertainment industrial complex.

    But as I said I don't watch many new movies and stick to a lot of older stuff. It's impossible not to notice the general weirdness though.

    My wife and I did binge on about 10 or so "Honest Trailers" on YouTube the other evening. That's a nice balance since I can witness the full extent of cultural stupidification while being eternally grateful that I didn't waste 2 hours on any of those movies!

    Replies: @QCIC

    I went through an “Honest Trailer” phase, too.

    I think they were better before the lead guy was taken out by “me, to”, though he sounded creepy if anything can be believed. Creepy, but not excommunication worthy (IIRC).

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @QCIC

    Have you seen the Bruce Schneier google talk where his opening attention getter is "two things we all have in common: we all watch Game of Thrones and google knows what kind of porn we all like"?

    I get force fed GOT clips since I surf the internet but I have never seen an episode. Also I have never searched for porn with google. I presume he was just speaking at the live audience, not the entire world of humanity.

    Replies: @QCIC

  439. @Barbarossa
    @Ivashka the fool

    Personally, I've noticed much more train traffic since the 'Vid agenda goofed up supply chains and trucking costs.

    Before then my impression was that rail infrastructure was rather neglected and going downhill. Which is too bad since rail is a very efficient way to move goods around.

    Aging neglected infrastructure and rolling stock plus quick mobilization for far greater traffic could easily equal a lot of bad accidents like this.

    Switches don't have anything to do with the internet (as far as I know).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have not seen the footage myself but there is supposed to be surveillance footage of poorly maintained flaming axle from multiple cameras over miles of track. Maybe fake news. But multiple reports from non-newbie userids on conservative and progressive internet sites.

  440. @QCIC
    @Barbarossa

    I went through an "Honest Trailer" phase, too.

    I think they were better before the lead guy was taken out by "me, to", though he sounded creepy if anything can be believed. Creepy, but not excommunication worthy (IIRC).

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Have you seen the Bruce Schneier google talk where his opening attention getter is “two things we all have in common: we all watch Game of Thrones and google knows what kind of porn we all like”?

    I get force fed GOT clips since I surf the internet but I have never seen an episode. Also I have never searched for porn with google. I presume he was just speaking at the live audience, not the entire world of humanity.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have never watched G.O.T. either, just some clips. I like the dragon and Emilia is cute in a weird sort of way, but the rest seems horrible. I avoid Zombie shows or shows promoting drug dealers and crime families. Not to say that I haven't watched and rewatched a bunch of silly stuff. But the genres I listed are BAD for a person IMO. Intentionally, of course.

    I don't know anything about Google talks. Are they like TED talks? Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.

    Google knows everything about people, that is the point. It is probably molding porn preferences rather than merely tracking them.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  441. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let's learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don't really need to worry about them tbh.
    They're Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    @AP https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don't focus on the region. Almost sure I'd be mistreated there, and part of why I didn't go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Let’s learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    You do realize that we weren’t supposed to be around anymore given our location with our “fantastic” neighbors on both sides. So yea there’s that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    The veil such a sacred garment has place for the eyes, but not the mouth.
    The Lord knows best.

    https://i.redd.it/f94h2hour0e71.jpg

    https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic-india-biggest-holocaust-world-history

    You survived by converting - the Khalsa lost 70% of its forces in the Great Holocaust of 1762.
    Within 4 months they celebrated Diwali by removing the Afghans from Panjab.

    A task neither Pakistani, Hindu, British, American or Russian can be said to accomplish.
    Neither Alexander,
    --
    This is not to brag you are after all a woman.
    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.

    As you are like my mother I will not mention the third place a woman is expert.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    You do realize that we weren’t supposed to be around anymore given our location with our “fantastic” neighbors on both sides. So yea there’s that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.
     
    Are you insane or drunk you worthless POS?Dumber than plankton

    No nation has been more responsible for saving, creating and nurturing so many different countries - small and big - than Russia has you irrelevant idiot . Russia invented the fake "Ukrainian" nation, "culture" and ideology you retarded imbecile, we created the Bulgarian nation after defeating the Ottomans, created the Romanian state, created Moldova( retrospectively should never have taken their Black Sea coast), Kazakhstan, recreated Gruzia when it was basically made near extinct by Persian and Ottoman rules (as with 404, giving it a coastline and so important for them beach tourist industry that there is zero other way they would have got his geography if not for Russia) , created Finland, resurrected Armenian nation, recreated the loser-trash Polish state in Russian Empire when could easily have made it extinct as the Germanic side did, saved the Polish nation in GPW, made Litva viable by giving huge section of country to them you idiot.

    Latvia was never ever under threat to be some "absorbed state" or eliminated people or culture under Russian Empire or USSR. Latvia was only an "independent" (i.e American prostitute-nutjob) state because RUSSIANS in Latvia voted and supported it in 1991 - only to be immediately betrayed by these rats. NEVER forget that you parasitic worthless tramp. LOL - There is no even mildly interesting "survival" story here you idiot - a worthless, nothing failure of a microstate that's so cuckolded a german jew runs the place. Would be even much worse if Russians were not in Riga.

    Every Latvian I have met, basically worships anything German there over the centuries - so even more ridiculous to play the "unfortunate with the neighbours" argument.

    P.S Why won't the other worthless tramp "Sudden Death" explain Ignalina? Cowardly POS. LMAO

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

  442. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    That's reasonable. The Kim Kardashian aesthetic of heavy "contouring" has been almost all-conquering. "Almost" because the Fox News aesthetic of plastic bottled blonde also does well in its areas. Nonetheless television is still full of beautiful people, far in excess of society. I think you can decry the fakeness and the above two trends, while recognising this. Just the difference in obesity rates should be enough!

    On obesity, Hanania is right on when he points out that, though people generally blame it on their pet issue, the truth is that food is cheaper than ever and tastier than ever, and this, by itself, can explain obesity. Unfortunately for humans, tastier and healthier, do not align, unless healthy is the old school definition of "most calories."

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I find it really strange, and indicative of the schizophrenic nature of our society, that on one hand we elevate the insane and fake beauty standards of the derivative and filtered Instagram hottie, while also saying that being morbidly obese is just fine and dandy and as good looking as anything else. As far as I’m concerned, both extremes are pathological.

    I do think that much of the obesity does stem from lack of exercise and too much food, but I also think there may be more going on. I’ve seen studies that indicate that even holding calories steady makes people fatter than they were 40 years ago. The fat packing seems to effect women more than men on average.

    I would expect that there might be a widespread metabolic/ hormonal component that is fundamentally different. It does seem that a lot of emerging science indicates that metabolic and hormonal regulation is tied to strenuous exercise in fundamental ways. The fall off in physical activity may be enough to create a tailspin in metabolic functioning, but I’m sure all the chemicals, synthetic hormones, etc. contribute. Even oral birth control, which is pretty ubiquitous can be bad
    that way.

    Whatever is going on it’s not good. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I was going through old yearbooks from my grandparents and consistently there was perhaps one or two chubby girls (not even really fat) in the entire high school. It’s a huge change!

    • Thanks: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    The problem with all these "physicalist" theories is that they are disproved by Asia.

    Tokyo has an insane availability of the most delicious high calorie foods - Japanese in particular love fried foods - far in excess of even the densest American cities like New York, yet the people are model-thin. Not just not chubby, but model thin, both men and women. New York, while thinner than the rest of country and with little actual obesity, has plenty of overweight people.

    Moreover, Japan uses all the chemical additives we do - in fact, even more, there are multiple food additives banned in the West that Japan widely uses, and their diet is extremely fatty and unhealthy, fried foods, ramen, etc.

    Wagyu - Japanese beef - is famous especially for being significantly fattier than any other beef in the world :) It is the most heavily marbled beef in existence, and it's everywhere - they were even selling skewers of it in the airport.

    The picture is substantially the same in Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, etc. Food paradise, unhealthy diets, skinny people.

    The Japanese are also a nation of alcoholics - people drink a ton there, on a near daily basis, often starting in the afternoon. There are a gazillion bars - generally quite small - everywhere. Even vending machines sell alcohol. Beer is extremely popular..

    At a certain point, we're going to have to admit our "physicalist" theories of obesity have failed - it is something in the mind, picked up from the culture, or some signal in the environment mediated by the mind.

    I notice it myself - I'm fit and thin in NY, but I always lose a few pounds in Asia and acquire that "modelesque" thinness without even trying. Interestingly, in NY I have tremendous "food anxiety" in the sense that I am obsessed with getting organic, healthy, chemical free foods, and I make sure to eat lots of veggies and fruits. In Asia, my food anxiety vanishes and my diet gets significantly worse - fried foods, I forget all about veggies and fruits and barely eat them, and I drop pounds and feel fantastic.

    The mind after all is what mediates information from our environment and controls our emotional and physiological state - it stands to reason that if people are overeating, it's because of some signal in the environment or culture.

    But what?

    I have some theories in embryo about that - it may be Americans are overeating out of a sense of "existential insecurity", a signal in the American environment telling them they are never "enough", and that they must self-aggrandize in order to validate themselves and gain value.

    In Asia, things are chaotic and very active and dynamic, but there is a sort of calmness and contentment one picks up on immediately - returning to America one immediately picks up on a sort of restlessness that is in the air, a sort of discontent.

    I am sure, too, there are social and aesthetic factors as well - and the way that ties into the moral dimension is interesting.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Dmitry

  443. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let's learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don't really need to worry about them tbh.
    They're Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    @AP https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don't focus on the region. Almost sure I'd be mistreated there, and part of why I didn't go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    and part of why I didn’t go fight in Ukraine.

    What, for fun? Clearly you don’t have any real horse in that race. I have a pretty high risk tolerance, but I’d have no interest in potentially killing or getting killed for something that has nothing to do with me. Seems like there is no honor in that.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    duShyanta's belief that even his emotions are rooted in dharma. If he feels attracted to a woman, she's a kShatriya only. Even though seeing shakuntalaa devii in Ashrama of a ब्राह्मण, he believes she's Kshatrani. - tweet deleted

    https://twitter.com/advedtak/status/1314293252057513985?s=21

    Point being - faith in God is rooted in self.

    When farmer's protests were going hot families world over were preparing to donate Son.
    If Lord didn't make us fervent enough to intervene in Ukraine then it is not meant to be.


    Does not mean that we should not be eager.
    40% of Sikh militants joined for fun, 30% for personal/familial grievance, 10% for religious reason.

    ਜੂਝਬੋ ਕਾਮ ਹੈ ਛੱਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੋ ਕਛੁ ਜੋਗਨ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਮ ਲਰਾਈ ॥੧੫੨੨॥
    Charging into the battle is the task of the warriors, it is not the task of the yogis ||

    — Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 448, Chaubis Avtar, Guru Gobind Singh Ji

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1075913287977406606/image.png

    ਸਬੈ ਸੁਭਟ ਅਉ ਸਭ ਸੁਕਬਿ ਯੌ ਸਮਝੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਕਉਨਹੂੰ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੭੪॥ All the warriors and great poets should understand this fact that there is not even the slightest difference between Vishnu and his Chakram.

  444. Kadyrov and Nuland have something in common regarding metabolism rates lately, probably been stressful year:

    • Replies: @LatW
    @sudden death

    I swear I had never seen a fat Chechen man before Kadyrov Jr. They eat a lot of food made out of dough, but they have always been very slender. But, yea, it's been a rough year. He knows what's up. He's not as easy going and "braggy" as a year ago.

    Yesterday he uttered something about needing to stop posting about the dead.

  445. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Yes, the West is woke crazy & East is crazy.
    Let's learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.

    Don't really need to worry about them tbh.
    They're Lutheran so any rebellious tendency will be wiped by threat of excommunication.

    @AP https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10pxlms/poland_issued_136_thousand_work_permits_for/

    Going by this as this is what I saw. No other info as I don't focus on the region. Almost sure I'd be mistreated there, and part of why I didn't go fight in Ukraine.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW, @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Opportunity Lost
    Let’s Have Freedom of Movement with India
    The best exotic policy for economic growth
    Ben Ramanauskas

    https://opportunitylost.substack.com/p/lets-have-freedom-of-movement-with

    Genuinely thought it was an Indian name, until I looked it up.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @songbird

    lol, badly want to believe he wrote it only because got the direct strict order from Kemi Badenoch:


    Ben Ramanauskas
    Adviser to the Secretary of State for International Trade
     
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ben-ramanauskas-95b6b4204

    https://thechronicle.com.gh/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Untitled-design-3-13.jpg


    She is one of three children born to middle class Yoruba parents. Her father, Femi Adegoke, is a GP and her mother, Feyi Adegoke, is a professor of physiology. Badenoch spent parts of her childhood living in Lagos, Nigeria and in the United States, where her mother lectured.[8][9][10] She has a brother named Fola and a sister called Lola.[11] She returned to the UK at the age of 16 to live with a friend of her mother's owing to the deteriorating political and economic situation in Nigeria which had affected her family.[12] Although a British citizen and born in the UK, Badenoch stated that she was "to all intents and purposes a first-generation immigrant" during her parliamentary maiden speech.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_Badenoch

    Replies: @sudden death

    , @Coconuts
    @songbird


    This would bring benefits to every area of the UK and Scotland in particular would be set to benefit. Scotch is one of the UK’s biggest exports and so the businesses and distilleries would look set to experience a boost once the sky high tariff is removed.
     
    It is another Bobus dreaming of selling sausage on a gigantic scale:

    For example, you Bobus Higgins, Sausage-maker on the great scale, who are raising such a clamour for this Aristocracy of Talent, what is it that you do, in that big heart of yours, chiefly in very fact pay reverence to? Is it to talent, intrinsic manly worth of any kind, you unfortunate Bobus? The manliest man that you saw going in a ragged coat, did you ever reverence him; did you so much as know that he was a manly man at all, till his coat grew better? Talent! I understand you to be able to worship the fame of talent, the power, cash, celebrity or other success of talent; but the talent itself is a thing you never saw with eyes. Nay what is it in yourself that you are proudest of, that you take most pleasure in surveying meditatively in thoughtful moments? Speak now, is it the bare Bobus stript of his very name and shirt, and turned loose upon society, that you admire and thank Heaven for; or Bobus with his cash-accounts and larders dropping fatness, with his respectabilities, warm garnitures, and pony-chaise, admirable in some measure to certain of the flunkey species?
     

    Replies: @sudden death

  446. @sudden death
    Kadyrov and Nuland have something in common regarding metabolism rates lately, probably been stressful year:

    https://pic.rutubelist.ru/video/47/c0/47c04d5c27982fb48987c79088587cea.jpg

    https://chinaglobalsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Victoria-Nuland-Colombo.jpg

    Replies: @LatW

    I swear I had never seen a fat Chechen man before Kadyrov Jr. They eat a lot of food made out of dough, but they have always been very slender. But, yea, it’s been a rough year. He knows what’s up. He’s not as easy going and “braggy” as a year ago.

    Yesterday he uttered something about needing to stop posting about the dead.

  447. @AP
    @Beckow


    By the way, Donetsk-Crimea are according to Kiev a part of Ukraine – by definition required to win a ‘defensive war’.
     
    Are you trying to shift the goal posts now, so that victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?

    Putin chose to invade and he gave reasons for his choice. Accordingly, if Russia accomplishes most of its goals it had won, if it fails at most of them than it has lost. The ratio of successes to failures indicate how great or small the loss or victory, with additional factors not mentioned at the start of the invasion also to be considered.

    Putin’s stated goals, in no particular order, were:

    1. De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally. Russians consider even the moderately nationalist government of Zelensky to be a Nazi one. So a reborn Party of Regions in charge. Return of Sovok history textbooks or adoption of Russian ones. Purges of nationalists. They are burning Ukrainian books in newly conquered territory.

    2. De-militarization. Ukraine is to have no army or a small army of no more than 100,000, without missiles and rockets, modern plans or tanks, etc. In other words, it is to be defenseless in case Russia should ever choose to attack again.

    3. Russian language rights. Russian as second official language, Russian schools everywhere, etc.

    4. Ukrainian recognition of loss of Crimea and all of Donbas.

    5. No NATO. This is the easiest one, because Ukraine already wasn’t in NATO and for years was denied admission to NATO despite many declarations. Might as well add, “no Mars base.”

    The most likely result is that Russia fails completely at (1) to (3). Indeed the opposite has occurred at each of them. Ukraine is more nationalistic than ever, even Kharkiv is now fiercely nationalist and anti-Russian. Russian language and culture are being erased. Ukraine’s military is larger, better armed, and more experienced than at any time, and it is loved and trusted by society.

    (4) will still be decided.

    (5) was true before the invasion.

    But Russia likely will will have a consolation prize of gaining additional territory, to compensate for the failure of most of its goals. The question is how much additional territory would be sufficient compensation for utter failing to meet the other goals. Do wrecked Mariupol and some ruined places like Bakhmut mean it was worth it to have a militarized, armed to the teeth, nationalistic, totally de-Russified rest of Ukraine? Only if you are lying to yourself.

    What about the Crimean corridor? That is, the current line of contact. Probably not either, but much closer to a draw. I think a draw would be all of Zaporizhia province, or retaking those parts of Kharkiv oblast that Ukraine took back, and all of Donbas plus Kherson south of the Dnipro. Anything more would be a Russian victory (weak or Pyrrhic one if Russia manages to retake Kherson city or takes the suburbs of Kharkiv, stronger if it takes Kharkiv or Odessa). Anything less (Ukraine holds what it has, or it retakes the Crimean corridor, etc while purging itself of Russian culture and keeping its army and nationalism) would be a Russian defeat. A failure to accomplish most of its goals, with not enough to compensate for that failure.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally.

    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism. Period. The Polish, Hungarian and Italian gments are nationalistic, nobody would ever call them Nazis. Stop your desperate attempts to include the Bandera-Nazi worship into nationalist Ukiedom. On the other hand, if some Ukie nationalists can’t exist without worshipping WW2 Nazis and Bandera, that is a real problem…imagine Georgia Meloni marching under Mussolini banners, or Orban with Horthy…

    victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?

    Not in my evaluation of the war, but I suspect most Euro outsiders will have a hard time thinking that Kiev won if Donbas-Crimea become Russian – from their perspective losing two key provinces would be a loss. It matters, even if I agree that it was mostly a done deal before the war started.

    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that “de-nazification’ is a slogan and cant’t be properly assessed. Demilitarization is real, but it is much more dynamic than you imply and so hard to measure over time. If Russia keeps Nato out and the Ukie army is degraded that goal would be reached – but the timeline and the degradation would have to be defined.

    At the end, the amount of lands Russia controls (or doesn’t) will be the main – maybe the only – criteria. If Russia takes Kharkov and Odessa, it would be a big victory…if they go beyond that, Dnipro, Kiev, Lviv – it would be a very big victory – and a catastrophe for the West in terms of perception. If Russia is kept to what ity has now, plus some small gains around Donbas, I would call it a tie, but others could claim a victory in that case for either side.

    We are in the middle of it and this could develop and end very differently – e.g. other countries could be pulled in (Belarus, Poland, Moldova…), the escalation (bombing) in Russia, Poland, Baltic states, a total collapse of one or the other side…and my (least) favorite, somebody decides to go nuclear…If I would be putting money on it, i would go with something “different” from the above list. It has a feeling of an unmanaged crisis with sudden sharp tangents almost inevitable…remember that the only reason none of that happened so far is that Putin is a moderate, boring, careful and very sober guy…he has kept it predictable and safe. Another reason the stupid analogies dont work.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Russia may take as much territory as she can control. Unz readers should start discussing post-SMO Ukraine. Even for those who expect Ukraine will prevail I think this discussion may be a helpful exercise to understand the Russian strategy. Russia must reintegrate and restore order and create a neutral part of the Ukraine. If not, they are simply watering the seeds of the next conflict.

    Russia will have no serious difficultly reconnecting with Donbas and Crimea, so those are not worth discussing in this context. But what if she hypothetically achieves a line of control from Kharkov down to Odessa, including Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia? A compliant government would be set up, probably with difficulty. A temporary post-war transition economy must be established. Repair and restoration will start.

    They would work to attenuate hatred against Russia and redirect it towards the West. I think she will try to selectively restore industries that keep Ukrainians alive and others which have some sort of synergy with Russian industry. In other words those which fill gaps in the Russian supply chain.

    What else is important?

    Of the the four cities I listed, which are the hardest and easiest for Russia to reconnect with?

    Replies: @A123

    , @AP
    @Beckow


    "…De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally."

    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism.
     

    Don't pretend that you don't undertsand Rusia.

    According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky's government is referred to as a Nazi government.

    Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?

    Under the Russian understanding of de-Nazification, the only acceptable political parties allowed to exist in Ukraine would be a reborn Party of Regions, Communists, or Russian nationalists.


    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that “de-nazification’ is a slogan and cant’t be properly assessed
     
    It's pretty clear because we know whom the Russian government regards as Nazis. It means regime change and elimination of all pro-Western Ukrainian political parties.

    You only have to read the comments by some of the Western morons who get all their information from Russian government sources, to see whom the Russian state regards as Nazis: any Ukrainian nationalist.

    Replies: @Beckow

  448. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    The new statue of Ruth Bader Ginsberg is Phonecian as Baal. It was sculpted by an exotic ethnic I don't offhand recall which.

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/01/28/multimedia/24courtsculpture7-bkcf/24courtsculpture7-bkcf-superJumbo.jpg

    Replies: @Yahya, @Barbarossa

    Ye Gods! (And tentacled demony thingies apparently)

    That really is supposed to be a “tribute” to RBG.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/8-foot-tall-demon-looking-ruth-bader-ginsburg-tribute-in-nyc-perplexes-viewers-as-much-as-mlk-statue/ar-AA16Onxr

    I had to look that up, since what you said didn’t make a lick of sense.

    The artist says…
    “reconsiders traditional representations of power in public spaces and recasts civic structures to better reflect 21st-century social mores.”

    It still doesn’t make sense, so all I can say is W. T. F.
    Social mores? Like…having tentacles?!? Someone sure learned to pile the BS on in art school.

    Can someone please stop the 21’st century, I’d like to get off now.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    There is an amazing book by Frances Stonor Saunders

    https://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Cold-War-World-Letters/dp/1565846648

    The CIA heavily subsidized modern art, literature, and music. And had a lot of editorial control. It was to show the masses in London and Paris and Berlin how great we were versus the obsolete Russian culture. They got to Hollywood very late in the game because they didn't think that was serious art in the early days.

    Also this book was vetted by the CIA. This is only the part they are willing to admit to.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  449. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @QCIC

    Have you seen the Bruce Schneier google talk where his opening attention getter is "two things we all have in common: we all watch Game of Thrones and google knows what kind of porn we all like"?

    I get force fed GOT clips since I surf the internet but I have never seen an episode. Also I have never searched for porn with google. I presume he was just speaking at the live audience, not the entire world of humanity.

    Replies: @QCIC

    I have never watched G.O.T. either, just some clips. I like the dragon and Emilia is cute in a weird sort of way, but the rest seems horrible. I avoid Zombie shows or shows promoting drug dealers and crime families. Not to say that I haven’t watched and rewatched a bunch of silly stuff. But the genres I listed are BAD for a person IMO. Intentionally, of course.

    I don’t know anything about Google talks. Are they like TED talks? Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.

    Google knows everything about people, that is the point. It is probably molding porn preferences rather than merely tracking them.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @QCIC


    I don’t know anything about Google talks. Are they like TED talks? Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.
     
    Exactly.

    Some are excellent. There is one on the history of Silicon Valley that I watched 3X it was so good. Some are pretty stupid.

    Schneier's is good. Even the goofy attention getter is unintentionally informative. They never explained why there are no negroes at Burning Man though.
  450. @songbird
    @Sher Singh


    Opportunity Lost
    Let's Have Freedom of Movement with India
    The best exotic policy for economic growth
    Ben Ramanauskas
     
    https://opportunitylost.substack.com/p/lets-have-freedom-of-movement-with

    Genuinely thought it was an Indian name, until I looked it up.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

    lol, badly want to believe he wrote it only because got the direct strict order from Kemi Badenoch:

    Ben Ramanauskas
    Adviser to the Secretary of State for International Trade

    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ben-ramanauskas-95b6b4204

    She is one of three children born to middle class Yoruba parents. Her father, Femi Adegoke, is a GP and her mother, Feyi Adegoke, is a professor of physiology. Badenoch spent parts of her childhood living in Lagos, Nigeria and in the United States, where her mother lectured.[8][9][10] She has a brother named Fola and a sister called Lola.[11] She returned to the UK at the age of 16 to live with a friend of her mother’s owing to the deteriorating political and economic situation in Nigeria which had affected her family.[12] Although a British citizen and born in the UK, Badenoch stated that she was “to all intents and purposes a first-generation immigrant” during her parliamentary maiden speech.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_Badenoch

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @sudden death

    just adding for visual comparison - less michaeljacksoned pic of Kemi:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Kemi_Badenoch_official_Cabinet_Portrait%3B_2022_%28cropped%29.jpg

  451. @Beckow
    @Leaves No Shadow


    ...US wanted Nordstream 2 closed, but was happy with Nordstream 1 being open, and this is the opposite of what happened.
     
    US wanted both of them closed: since NS2 was already closed, they bombed NS1. It seems consistent, you are looking for complicated motivations in a simple situation and overthinking it on purpose.

    huge Russian offensive has been underway for at least a month and has taken a village or 2.
     
    Correct, but it has not been 'huge', it could stay small or gather momentum. Your speculation on the weather is pointless: it is possible to attack during the spring, and we don't know what the weather will be. If the goal is to grind down the Ukie army than the number of villages taken - small towns - is less important than the casualties for each side.

    Both sides project huge losses on the other: the latest front is to convince people that the others suffer more. It would be comical if it wasn't so ghoulishly macabre: "You suckers have hundreds of thousands of dead!!!" vs. "No, you do, we are killing you at no cost to us!!!"....let's be rational and take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that Ukies have bigger losses.

    You argue that Russia is exhausted and won't be able to finish the war - they conquered 20%, not too much. How? Does Kiev have a secret weapon and tens of thousands to throw into the bloodbath? A secret weapon we don't know? Is the Russian morale collapsing? None of that - the most likely outcome is that we get more of the same: Russia slowly grinding Ukies down and taking more land.

    The pro Ukie-side has shifted to emotional wins: counting dead, how much all Ukies now hate Russia, how Russians suffer from the lack of Parmesan cheese, how a smaller Ukieland centered on Galicia(+Kiev?) will be a permanent armed Nato camp on Russia's borders, and "Finland!"...Those are coping mechanisms, it is not possible to evaluate them or predict. But they betray nagging fears that the war is un-winnable.

    How is Kiev actually going to win? When are they going to march around Crimea-Donetsk, Moscow or Vladivostok? How would that happen without triggering a nuclear exchange? If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted? And what does it mean to suffer a 'partial loss' in an existential war? Forget about the weather (we don't know) and think through what is actually happening.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Greasy William

    If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted?

    Ukraine is never going to be militarily exhausted. That is the problem with Russia’s strategy. Ukraine is not 1941 Finland, Ukraine has the manpower and foreign support to fight forever.

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia’s strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn’t going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Barring a sudden economic collapse of the United States, a Ukrainian breakthrough and the destruction of the Russian army in Ukraine is a matter of when, not if. Seeing this is not a matter of preference or ideology, it’s simply a matter of understanding how modern war works.

    As for the idea that Russia can win by just fighting forever, not likely. Without the direct military intervention of the Western Allies (nevermind the blockade of Germany and Anglo American Lend-Lease), a much stronger Russia than the one that exists today would have been forced to accept an extremely disadvantageous peace against the Nazis. Russia attempted the “fight forever” strategy in WWI and it led to Russia suffering back to back revolutions, a civil war and 70 years of Communist enslavement.

    And I say all this as someone who hates the West and hates America, and as someone who has at times been extremely bullish on Russian prospects in this war. On the surface, this conflict appears competitive but in truth Russia is doomed. This shit is over just like things were over for Nazi Germany already in July 1941, even though nobody (except Hitler, ironically) could see it yet.

    The only way I can see Russia even forcing a stalemate (not a victory, that ship has sailed) is if there is a Western economic collapse. The only way there will be a Western economic collapse is if the Yen detonates which proceeds to cause a chain reaction that knocks over all the other fiat currencies including the USD. Unfortunately, the US will be in recession in 3 more months which means the Fed will cut rates which means the Yen will surge.

    I’m all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left. GloboHomo can only be defeated from within, no external opponent can challenge it.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William

    Save and date this comment. Reread it three months from now, and again a year after that. Then find a crow you like best and eat it.

    , @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    People should consider that Russia NEEDS to fight a war of attrition to achieve her stated goals. In other words this approach is strategic and not tactical. It is not a result of practical military necessity, poor equipment, stupidity or anything like that. The goals of the SMO simply require that a substantial percentage of the hardened Ukrainian opposition be killed in battle, end of story. Sadly, I think we are talking more than fifty percent. This is not simply to stop the fighting, but to clear out the ideologically-minded fighters who would surely turn into guerillas. So Russia needs them to die, not to surrender. On the other hand, most of the new recruits roped in to replace the fallen are not hardened nationalists. While they may be rapidly polarized on the battlefield most would probably be just as happy to see the combat stop as to fight to the bitter end. They may not be strongly against a new Russian order if they can recognize an upside to it. The percentage of these "moderates" increases over time as the large hardened cadre is continuously depleted.

    The fact that wily Ukrainian leaders are vicious and willing to throw a vast supply of new recruits into the attrition meat grinder is not a concern of the Russian military, other than she needs to kill or arrest those leaders to stop it.

    I think support for the idea that attrition warfare is a strategic Russian decision has always been somewhat apparent, right along with the notion that Russia was going out of her way to prevent civilian deaths in Ukraine. The attrition warfare takes a serious emotional toll on Russian citizens as well, so the public messaging may be largely intended to deal with this challenge.

    The process of nationalists being replaced by moderates may create a substantial backlash against the surviving Ukrainians who mistakenly sold out to the West and made this mess possible. Russia may be counting on this as part of the post-SMO reorganization of Ukraine. One twist is that many of these conscripted moderates were probably cowed by the NeoNazis before this nightmare started. Once they have been trained to fight and seen actual combat they will not be scared of any residual NeoNazis.

    , @Yevardian
    @Greasy William


    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia’s strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn’t going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.
     
    Assuming unlimited Ukrainian manpower like that is a pretty hazardous assumption, at this stage nearly every adult Ukrainian male who wants to fight or contribute in some other way militarily is likely already doing so. Conscription from this point will have to become increasingly cooercive.

    The US fought in Vietnam to a standstill for a decade, until the deep domestic American unpopularity of the war forced 'Vietnamisation' and eventually total withdrawal from the war, and then and only then was the Tet Offensive successful.
    Combined North/South Vietnam in the late 70s had roughly 50 million people, Ukraine in 2023, after recent mass emigration to the EU, has perhaps half that population.
    Based on what we've seen already, I don't see any mass civil-unrest happening in Russia as a result of the war that could in any way significantly alter the Kremlin's policy. Actually, the stability of Putin's government even after the disgustingly bungled opening phases of the invasion surprised me, compare this to USSR's domestic problems arising from involvement in Afghanistan. Almost certainly Russian casualties are far higher after just a year's fighting in Ukraine, than the decade-long Soviet involvement in Afghanistan.
    So, based on this, I'm cautiously now leaning towards a rough stalemate in Ukraine, discounting any total wildcards like direct European military involvement, mass civil unrest, or Germans standing up for their own interests.


    I’m all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left.
     
    Europe is screwed, but the US and the Anglosphere will be totally fine.

    @SuddenDeath


    however, Hersh at this age keeps saying several times in that video about EU having cold winter, so if the guy isn’t capable to factcheck or know what’s in the open, how on earth does make him more believable or capable investigating/checking on allegedly very secret stuff details he got from someone else?
     
    'Cold Winter' may have simply been expressing one with limited heating. But yes this European Winter was a record high, iirc.

    More patently, do you have any examples of Hersh being unambigiously mistaken/lying with regard to any particular claim?
    I'd be curious to see the opinion of a public figure totally uninvolved with this conflict, with nothing to lose, thinks about it. Say, someone like Finkelstein.

    Replies: @Beckow

  452. Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.

    Not propaganda, per se. “Infotainement”.

    But yes, it’s for midwits.

  453. @QCIC
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I have never watched G.O.T. either, just some clips. I like the dragon and Emilia is cute in a weird sort of way, but the rest seems horrible. I avoid Zombie shows or shows promoting drug dealers and crime families. Not to say that I haven't watched and rewatched a bunch of silly stuff. But the genres I listed are BAD for a person IMO. Intentionally, of course.

    I don't know anything about Google talks. Are they like TED talks? Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.

    Google knows everything about people, that is the point. It is probably molding porn preferences rather than merely tracking them.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    I don’t know anything about Google talks. Are they like TED talks? Around here I think many of those would be categorized as thinly-veiled propaganda for midwits.

    Exactly.

    Some are excellent. There is one on the history of Silicon Valley that I watched 3X it was so good. Some are pretty stupid.

    Schneier’s is good. Even the goofy attention getter is unintentionally informative. They never explained why there are no negroes at Burning Man though.

    • LOL: QCIC
  454. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally.
     
    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism. Period. The Polish, Hungarian and Italian gments are nationalistic, nobody would ever call them Nazis. Stop your desperate attempts to include the Bandera-Nazi worship into nationalist Ukiedom. On the other hand, if some Ukie nationalists can't exist without worshipping WW2 Nazis and Bandera, that is a real problem...imagine Georgia Meloni marching under Mussolini banners, or Orban with Horthy...

    victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?
     
    Not in my evaluation of the war, but I suspect most Euro outsiders will have a hard time thinking that Kiev won if Donbas-Crimea become Russian - from their perspective losing two key provinces would be a loss. It matters, even if I agree that it was mostly a done deal before the war started.

    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that "de-nazification' is a slogan and cant't be properly assessed. Demilitarization is real, but it is much more dynamic than you imply and so hard to measure over time. If Russia keeps Nato out and the Ukie army is degraded that goal would be reached - but the timeline and the degradation would have to be defined.

    At the end, the amount of lands Russia controls (or doesn't) will be the main - maybe the only - criteria. If Russia takes Kharkov and Odessa, it would be a big victory...if they go beyond that, Dnipro, Kiev, Lviv - it would be a very big victory - and a catastrophe for the West in terms of perception. If Russia is kept to what ity has now, plus some small gains around Donbas, I would call it a tie, but others could claim a victory in that case for either side.

    We are in the middle of it and this could develop and end very differently - e.g. other countries could be pulled in (Belarus, Poland, Moldova...), the escalation (bombing) in Russia, Poland, Baltic states, a total collapse of one or the other side...and my (least) favorite, somebody decides to go nuclear...If I would be putting money on it, i would go with something "different" from the above list. It has a feeling of an unmanaged crisis with sudden sharp tangents almost inevitable...remember that the only reason none of that happened so far is that Putin is a moderate, boring, careful and very sober guy...he has kept it predictable and safe. Another reason the stupid analogies dont work.

    Replies: @QCIC, @AP

    Russia may take as much territory as she can control. Unz readers should start discussing post-SMO Ukraine. Even for those who expect Ukraine will prevail I think this discussion may be a helpful exercise to understand the Russian strategy. Russia must reintegrate and restore order and create a neutral part of the Ukraine. If not, they are simply watering the seeds of the next conflict.

    Russia will have no serious difficultly reconnecting with Donbas and Crimea, so those are not worth discussing in this context. But what if she hypothetically achieves a line of control from Kharkov down to Odessa, including Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia? A compliant government would be set up, probably with difficulty. A temporary post-war transition economy must be established. Repair and restoration will start.

    They would work to attenuate hatred against Russia and redirect it towards the West. I think she will try to selectively restore industries that keep Ukrainians alive and others which have some sort of synergy with Russian industry. In other words those which fill gaps in the Russian supply chain.

    What else is important?

    Of the the four cities I listed, which are the hardest and easiest for Russia to reconnect with?

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC

    How many civilians are left in Zaporizhzhia?

    It has the same survival dynamic as Kherson with the sides flipped. It will be very hard for the Kiev regime to keep, and there is no upside to letting RF liberators capture it intact.

    If an armistice is achieved with the city is still intact and under Kiev control... How many Ukrainians will want to be that close to Russian artillery? It will be destined to decline.

    The only slim hope for Zaporizhzhia as a rebounding and economically successful city is to be intact on the Russian side of the border. There is no route to that desirable end point. And, even this best case is fraught with opportunities for decline.

    PEACE 😇

  455. @sudden death
    @songbird

    lol, badly want to believe he wrote it only because got the direct strict order from Kemi Badenoch:


    Ben Ramanauskas
    Adviser to the Secretary of State for International Trade
     
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ben-ramanauskas-95b6b4204

    https://thechronicle.com.gh/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Untitled-design-3-13.jpg


    She is one of three children born to middle class Yoruba parents. Her father, Femi Adegoke, is a GP and her mother, Feyi Adegoke, is a professor of physiology. Badenoch spent parts of her childhood living in Lagos, Nigeria and in the United States, where her mother lectured.[8][9][10] She has a brother named Fola and a sister called Lola.[11] She returned to the UK at the age of 16 to live with a friend of her mother's owing to the deteriorating political and economic situation in Nigeria which had affected her family.[12] Although a British citizen and born in the UK, Badenoch stated that she was "to all intents and purposes a first-generation immigrant" during her parliamentary maiden speech.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemi_Badenoch

    Replies: @sudden death

    just adding for visual comparison – less michaeljacksoned pic of Kemi:

  456. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Ye Gods! (And tentacled demony thingies apparently)

    That really is supposed to be a "tribute" to RBG.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/8-foot-tall-demon-looking-ruth-bader-ginsburg-tribute-in-nyc-perplexes-viewers-as-much-as-mlk-statue/ar-AA16Onxr

    I had to look that up, since what you said didn't make a lick of sense.

    The artist says...
    "reconsiders traditional representations of power in public spaces and recasts civic structures to better reflect 21st-century social mores.”

    It still doesn't make sense, so all I can say is W. T. F.
    Social mores? Like...having tentacles?!? Someone sure learned to pile the BS on in art school.

    Can someone please stop the 21'st century, I'd like to get off now.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    There is an amazing book by Frances Stonor Saunders

    The CIA heavily subsidized modern art, literature, and music. And had a lot of editorial control. It was to show the masses in London and Paris and Berlin how great we were versus the obsolete Russian culture. They got to Hollywood very late in the game because they didn’t think that was serious art in the early days.

    Also this book was vetted by the CIA. This is only the part they are willing to admit to.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thanks. The embedded stuff didn't come through for me. Was it The Cultural Cold War or Who Paid the Piper?

    I knew that there was intense involvement by the CIA, producing such things as the Animal Farm cartoon. (Possibly the CIA's most least bad contribution to mankind?!) I'd always be interested in reading up on it more though, so I'll put it on my list.

    I hardly think I'll be shocked though. I've pretty much reached the point where I'd be legitimately shocked to learn that the government isn't screwing around with something. That way I'm never disappointed!

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  457. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted?
     
    Ukraine is never going to be militarily exhausted. That is the problem with Russia's strategy. Ukraine is not 1941 Finland, Ukraine has the manpower and foreign support to fight forever.

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia's strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn't going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Barring a sudden economic collapse of the United States, a Ukrainian breakthrough and the destruction of the Russian army in Ukraine is a matter of when, not if. Seeing this is not a matter of preference or ideology, it's simply a matter of understanding how modern war works.

    As for the idea that Russia can win by just fighting forever, not likely. Without the direct military intervention of the Western Allies (nevermind the blockade of Germany and Anglo American Lend-Lease), a much stronger Russia than the one that exists today would have been forced to accept an extremely disadvantageous peace against the Nazis. Russia attempted the "fight forever" strategy in WWI and it led to Russia suffering back to back revolutions, a civil war and 70 years of Communist enslavement.

    And I say all this as someone who hates the West and hates America, and as someone who has at times been extremely bullish on Russian prospects in this war. On the surface, this conflict appears competitive but in truth Russia is doomed. This shit is over just like things were over for Nazi Germany already in July 1941, even though nobody (except Hitler, ironically) could see it yet.

    The only way I can see Russia even forcing a stalemate (not a victory, that ship has sailed) is if there is a Western economic collapse. The only way there will be a Western economic collapse is if the Yen detonates which proceeds to cause a chain reaction that knocks over all the other fiat currencies including the USD. Unfortunately, the US will be in recession in 3 more months which means the Fed will cut rates which means the Yen will surge.

    I'm all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left. GloboHomo can only be defeated from within, no external opponent can challenge it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @QCIC, @Yevardian

    Save and date this comment. Reread it three months from now, and again a year after that. Then find a crow you like best and eat it.

  458. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh


    and part of why I didn’t go fight in Ukraine.
     
    What, for fun? Clearly you don't have any real horse in that race. I have a pretty high risk tolerance, but I'd have no interest in potentially killing or getting killed for something that has nothing to do with me. Seems like there is no honor in that.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    duShyanta’s belief that even his emotions are rooted in dharma. If he feels attracted to a woman, she’s a kShatriya only. Even though seeing shakuntalaa devii in Ashrama of a ब्राह्मण, he believes she’s Kshatrani. – tweet deleted

    https://twitter.com/advedtak/status/1314293252057513985?s=21

    Point being – faith in God is rooted in self.

    When farmer’s protests were going hot families world over were preparing to donate Son.
    If Lord didn’t make us fervent enough to intervene in Ukraine then it is not meant to be.

    [MORE]

    Does not mean that we should not be eager.
    40% of Sikh militants joined for fun, 30% for personal/familial grievance, 10% for religious reason.

    ਜੂਝਬੋ ਕਾਮ ਹੈ ਛੱਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੋ ਕਛੁ ਜੋਗਨ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਕਾਮ ਲਰਾਈ ॥੧੫੨੨॥
    Charging into the battle is the task of the warriors, it is not the task of the yogis ||

    — Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 448, Chaubis Avtar, Guru Gobind Singh Ji

    ਸਬੈ ਸੁਭਟ ਅਉ ਸਭ ਸੁਕਬਿ ਯੌ ਸਮਝੋ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਮੈ ਭੇਦ ਕਉਨਹੂੰ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੭੪॥ All the warriors and great poets should understand this fact that there is not even the slightest difference between Vishnu and his Chakram.

  459. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    Let’s learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.
     
    You do realize that we weren't supposed to be around anymore given our location with our "fantastic" neighbors on both sides. So yea there's that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Gerard1234

    The veil such a sacred garment has place for the eyes, but not the mouth.
    The Lord knows best.

    [MORE]

    https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic-india-biggest-holocaust-world-history

    You survived by converting – the Khalsa lost 70% of its forces in the Great Holocaust of 1762.
    Within 4 months they celebrated Diwali by removing the Afghans from Panjab.

    A task neither Pakistani, Hindu, British, American or Russian can be said to accomplish.
    Neither Alexander,

    This is not to brag you are after all a woman.
    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.

    As you are like my mother I will not mention the third place a woman is expert.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • LOL: Yahya
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.
     
    Sorry, won't be able to be of help there. I cook beef.


    You survived by converting
     
    The hillforts of Semigallia are burning
    With crimson flames.
    The Semigallians are abandoning their native homesteads.

    The same way Prussia is burning as well,
    And the land becomes empty.
    But there are a few left who are still fighting,
    Who do not drop their weapons.

    Under the Lithuanian banners they gather,
    All of them who are fighters.
    For justice.
    For the faith of the ancestors.
    For the Fatherland and freedom.

    In the Battle of Grunwald,
    The Order will meet its end.
    But the struggle will not end
    Until there is still someone..

    There is always someone who envies,
    Always someone who cannot get enough,
    Who cannot allow others to live in peace
    His hammer clangs, while forging shackles for others.

    A hawk soars freely in the Lithuanian sky.
    The battle is not over until the last hero is still alive!

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  460. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other.
     
    HMS was correct in his reply that I didn't have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins.
     
    But they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    Exactly, and because chromosome Y does not recombine, your paternal haplogroup will be preserved through generations. This is reflected in the Bible through the fact that males are usually identified by the names of their fathers. It also makes credible the view that Yahwe cares only about preservation of patrilineal lineage, and favorizes men over women in many ways.

    Cousin marriages are about preserving X chromosome, which does recombine so you must mix the similar with the similar to get the similar again. It is a low-tech alternative (I don’t call it “natural” since cousin marriages do not exist in Nature) to cloning a female.

  461. @songbird
    @Sher Singh


    Opportunity Lost
    Let's Have Freedom of Movement with India
    The best exotic policy for economic growth
    Ben Ramanauskas
     
    https://opportunitylost.substack.com/p/lets-have-freedom-of-movement-with

    Genuinely thought it was an Indian name, until I looked it up.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Coconuts

    This would bring benefits to every area of the UK and Scotland in particular would be set to benefit. Scotch is one of the UK’s biggest exports and so the businesses and distilleries would look set to experience a boost once the sky high tariff is removed.

    It is another Bobus dreaming of selling sausage on a gigantic scale:

    For example, you Bobus Higgins, Sausage-maker on the great scale, who are raising such a clamour for this Aristocracy of Talent, what is it that you do, in that big heart of yours, chiefly in very fact pay reverence to? Is it to talent, intrinsic manly worth of any kind, you unfortunate Bobus? The manliest man that you saw going in a ragged coat, did you ever reverence him; did you so much as know that he was a manly man at all, till his coat grew better? Talent! I understand you to be able to worship the fame of talent, the power, cash, celebrity or other success of talent; but the talent itself is a thing you never saw with eyes. Nay what is it in yourself that you are proudest of, that you take most pleasure in surveying meditatively in thoughtful moments? Speak now, is it the bare Bobus stript of his very name and shirt, and turned loose upon society, that you admire and thank Heaven for; or Bobus with his cash-accounts and larders dropping fatness, with his respectabilities, warm garnitures, and pony-chaise, admirable in some measure to certain of the flunkey species?

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Coconuts

    On a more serious note, is this anyhow achievable soon? Doubt it, but would be hysterically sadly funny, considering Brexit was done for the sake of eventually achieving... Indentrance.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  462. @QCIC
    @songbird

    Agree. I can't fix everything.

    Some women look great in short hair (not sure if this is what you meant). They often have fantastic bone structure and other feminine/female traits which look great under all conditions. Sometimes they may be trying to "dress down" with the short hair, but this just rubs in their perfection for other girls.

    Of course they usually look better with more hair, but variety is not a bad thing when we are talking about beautiful women.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Pixie cut, short hair on women who can sell the pixie look is staggeringly effective. Nicole DeBoer from ST:DS9

     

     

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    They're out there.

    Vive le difference!!!!

  463. @Coconuts
    @songbird


    This would bring benefits to every area of the UK and Scotland in particular would be set to benefit. Scotch is one of the UK’s biggest exports and so the businesses and distilleries would look set to experience a boost once the sky high tariff is removed.
     
    It is another Bobus dreaming of selling sausage on a gigantic scale:

    For example, you Bobus Higgins, Sausage-maker on the great scale, who are raising such a clamour for this Aristocracy of Talent, what is it that you do, in that big heart of yours, chiefly in very fact pay reverence to? Is it to talent, intrinsic manly worth of any kind, you unfortunate Bobus? The manliest man that you saw going in a ragged coat, did you ever reverence him; did you so much as know that he was a manly man at all, till his coat grew better? Talent! I understand you to be able to worship the fame of talent, the power, cash, celebrity or other success of talent; but the talent itself is a thing you never saw with eyes. Nay what is it in yourself that you are proudest of, that you take most pleasure in surveying meditatively in thoughtful moments? Speak now, is it the bare Bobus stript of his very name and shirt, and turned loose upon society, that you admire and thank Heaven for; or Bobus with his cash-accounts and larders dropping fatness, with his respectabilities, warm garnitures, and pony-chaise, admirable in some measure to certain of the flunkey species?
     

    Replies: @sudden death

    On a more serious note, is this anyhow achievable soon? Doubt it, but would be hysterically sadly funny, considering Brexit was done for the sake of eventually achieving… Indentrance.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @sudden death

    I don't think so at the moment, they have already changed the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever. So far this seems to be the Brexit dividend on migration.

    But I think this Ben guy is supposed to be a Conservative or on the right, there are definitely other Conservatives who are favourable to free-market policies like this.

    Afaik the opinion polls keep showing a swing to the left on government spending and welfare provision, and moderately to the right on social issues. These Conservatives are far to the right on free-market economics and at the same time usually further left/liberal than most voters on social issues, after the next election they may be kept away from power and influence for some time.

    Replies: @sudden death

  464. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.
     
    Greg Cochran and Henry Harpending would dispute this assertion. In their book they state that evolutionary pressures accelerated after the development of agriculture; at a rate of 100 times more than the long-term average of the previous 6 million years. The reason is because agriculture supported larger and more dense human settlements; which meant favorable mutations would occur more often. Mutation generation is a function of population size. 60,000 years ago, there were approximately 250,000 modern humans. By the Bronze Age, 3,000 years ago, that number was roughly 60 million. Favorable mutations that had previously occurred every 100,000 years or so were by the Bronze Age showing up every 400 years. The mutations would then spread quickly among the population, no matter how large, because mutations increase in frequency exponentially.

    The agricultural revolution exerted new environmental challenges for humans; which by natural selection we became adapted to. For example; the farming diet was a lot more carbohydrate intensive, alcoholic, and vitamin-deficient than hunter-gatherer diets. This lead to an increase in prevalence of diabetes, acne, tooth aces and alcoholism. People who had genetic variants who could help them deal with these side effects were more likely to survive and pass their genes down. Even a single copy of an advantageous gene could spread rapidly if it conferred a marginally significant survival advantage. That was the case for the alleles regulating skin color (SLC24A5), eye color (HERC2), lactose tolerance (LCT), and dry earwax (ABCC11).

    The allele SLC24A5 came into existence only 5,800 years ago; but it has a frequency of about 99 percent throughout Europe and is found at significant levels in North Africa, East Africa, and as far east as India and Ceylon. In Roman times; chroniclers would note that the Picts of Scotland were dark-skinned. We also know that the indigenous WHG's of Europe were also dark-skinned 6,000 years ago. East Asians and Amerindians diverged only 15,000 years ago; yet observe the significant differences in physiognomy and behavior between them.

    The evolutionary responses differ by region; depending on when agriculture was adopted. Places where agriculture is the oldest, such as the Middle East, Europe, India and China; have people who are most adapted to agricultural society. Amerindians in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys adopted maize agriculture only 1,000 years ago, but the Australian Aborigines never domesticated plants at all. We therefore see fewer adaptive changes among them and sub-Saharan Africans.

    Evolution has continued at a fast pace even in the modern period. Gregory Clark has outlined the selective process operating on Englishmen throughout the previous 500 years in A Farewell To Alms. He found that the upper class had approximately two times more children than the lower classes; eventually making English society more bourgeois in behavior. Natural selection can operate on a short period of time given a sufficiently large population.

    If an allele affecting behavior had a frequency of 20 percent and a 6 percent selective advantage in a European population in 1500; then over the next 300 years, the frequency of that allele would have doubled, and going from 20 percent to 40 percent. This would be enough to give European society in 1800 some new capability or tendency.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    Do the authors take account of the plummeting infant mortality rate that follows industrialisation?

    Ed Dutton and Michael Woodley have a book discussing the possible impact of this, iirc they state that the baseline infant mortality rate in pre-industrial societies is around 50% and this operates as a form of ‘purifying selection’, removing harmful mutations from the gene pool. Also, not all surviving adults successfully reproduce into the next generation either, which is another layer of selection.

    Since these selective pressures have collapsed in industrial societies, a rapid build up of detrimental mutations is very likely. Following industrialistion evolution also seems to be reproductively favouring a different type of person compared to the past, lower intelligence, more impulsive, higher than average ethnocentrism for the society… Woodley and Dutton hypothesise people with these traits will make up a growing portion of every industrialised society.

    It is not a very heartening read in some ways.

  465. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted?
     
    Ukraine is never going to be militarily exhausted. That is the problem with Russia's strategy. Ukraine is not 1941 Finland, Ukraine has the manpower and foreign support to fight forever.

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia's strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn't going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Barring a sudden economic collapse of the United States, a Ukrainian breakthrough and the destruction of the Russian army in Ukraine is a matter of when, not if. Seeing this is not a matter of preference or ideology, it's simply a matter of understanding how modern war works.

    As for the idea that Russia can win by just fighting forever, not likely. Without the direct military intervention of the Western Allies (nevermind the blockade of Germany and Anglo American Lend-Lease), a much stronger Russia than the one that exists today would have been forced to accept an extremely disadvantageous peace against the Nazis. Russia attempted the "fight forever" strategy in WWI and it led to Russia suffering back to back revolutions, a civil war and 70 years of Communist enslavement.

    And I say all this as someone who hates the West and hates America, and as someone who has at times been extremely bullish on Russian prospects in this war. On the surface, this conflict appears competitive but in truth Russia is doomed. This shit is over just like things were over for Nazi Germany already in July 1941, even though nobody (except Hitler, ironically) could see it yet.

    The only way I can see Russia even forcing a stalemate (not a victory, that ship has sailed) is if there is a Western economic collapse. The only way there will be a Western economic collapse is if the Yen detonates which proceeds to cause a chain reaction that knocks over all the other fiat currencies including the USD. Unfortunately, the US will be in recession in 3 more months which means the Fed will cut rates which means the Yen will surge.

    I'm all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left. GloboHomo can only be defeated from within, no external opponent can challenge it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @QCIC, @Yevardian

    People should consider that Russia NEEDS to fight a war of attrition to achieve her stated goals. In other words this approach is strategic and not tactical. It is not a result of practical military necessity, poor equipment, stupidity or anything like that. The goals of the SMO simply require that a substantial percentage of the hardened Ukrainian opposition be killed in battle, end of story. Sadly, I think we are talking more than fifty percent. This is not simply to stop the fighting, but to clear out the ideologically-minded fighters who would surely turn into guerillas. So Russia needs them to die, not to surrender. On the other hand, most of the new recruits roped in to replace the fallen are not hardened nationalists. While they may be rapidly polarized on the battlefield most would probably be just as happy to see the combat stop as to fight to the bitter end. They may not be strongly against a new Russian order if they can recognize an upside to it. The percentage of these “moderates” increases over time as the large hardened cadre is continuously depleted.

    The fact that wily Ukrainian leaders are vicious and willing to throw a vast supply of new recruits into the attrition meat grinder is not a concern of the Russian military, other than she needs to kill or arrest those leaders to stop it.

    I think support for the idea that attrition warfare is a strategic Russian decision has always been somewhat apparent, right along with the notion that Russia was going out of her way to prevent civilian deaths in Ukraine. The attrition warfare takes a serious emotional toll on Russian citizens as well, so the public messaging may be largely intended to deal with this challenge.

    The process of nationalists being replaced by moderates may create a substantial backlash against the surviving Ukrainians who mistakenly sold out to the West and made this mess possible. Russia may be counting on this as part of the post-SMO reorganization of Ukraine. One twist is that many of these conscripted moderates were probably cowed by the NeoNazis before this nightmare started. Once they have been trained to fight and seen actual combat they will not be scared of any residual NeoNazis.

  466. @A123
    @QCIC

    Pixie cut, short hair on women who can sell the pixie look is staggeringly effective. Nicole DeBoer from ST:DS9

     
    https://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ezri1.jpg
     

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    They’re out there.

    Vive le difference!!!!

  467. @sudden death
    @Coconuts

    On a more serious note, is this anyhow achievable soon? Doubt it, but would be hysterically sadly funny, considering Brexit was done for the sake of eventually achieving... Indentrance.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I don’t think so at the moment, they have already changed the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever. So far this seems to be the Brexit dividend on migration.

    But I think this Ben guy is supposed to be a Conservative or on the right, there are definitely other Conservatives who are favourable to free-market policies like this.

    Afaik the opinion polls keep showing a swing to the left on government spending and welfare provision, and moderately to the right on social issues. These Conservatives are far to the right on free-market economics and at the same time usually further left/liberal than most voters on social issues, after the next election they may be kept away from power and influence for some time.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Coconuts


    they have alreadychanged the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever.
     
    This is not a reply to your reasonable points, just will indulge into repeating my own comment from 2019:

    But that was so easily predictable even before Brexit hysteria it is hard to believe it comes now as some kind of surprise.

    There was absolutely unpleasant, but strategic choice – either you are getting a lot of Eastern european immigration, and yes, many of them being white thrash, prone to petty criminal deeds, but having very weak national identity and being easily completely assimilated in the long run even without assimilational politics or either you are getting mass muslim immigration from multihundred million population states such as Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. which actually outnumbers whole Eastern Europe and has people who are absolutely not capable to assimilation in the long run.

    But it seems many even were/are not capable or simply refusing to realize the very existence of such choice.
     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-77/#comment-3242512

    Replies: @Coconuts

  468. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally.
     
    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism. Period. The Polish, Hungarian and Italian gments are nationalistic, nobody would ever call them Nazis. Stop your desperate attempts to include the Bandera-Nazi worship into nationalist Ukiedom. On the other hand, if some Ukie nationalists can't exist without worshipping WW2 Nazis and Bandera, that is a real problem...imagine Georgia Meloni marching under Mussolini banners, or Orban with Horthy...

    victory for Ukraine must be the conquest of Crimea and Donbas?
     
    Not in my evaluation of the war, but I suspect most Euro outsiders will have a hard time thinking that Kiev won if Donbas-Crimea become Russian - from their perspective losing two key provinces would be a loss. It matters, even if I agree that it was mostly a done deal before the war started.

    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that "de-nazification' is a slogan and cant't be properly assessed. Demilitarization is real, but it is much more dynamic than you imply and so hard to measure over time. If Russia keeps Nato out and the Ukie army is degraded that goal would be reached - but the timeline and the degradation would have to be defined.

    At the end, the amount of lands Russia controls (or doesn't) will be the main - maybe the only - criteria. If Russia takes Kharkov and Odessa, it would be a big victory...if they go beyond that, Dnipro, Kiev, Lviv - it would be a very big victory - and a catastrophe for the West in terms of perception. If Russia is kept to what ity has now, plus some small gains around Donbas, I would call it a tie, but others could claim a victory in that case for either side.

    We are in the middle of it and this could develop and end very differently - e.g. other countries could be pulled in (Belarus, Poland, Moldova...), the escalation (bombing) in Russia, Poland, Baltic states, a total collapse of one or the other side...and my (least) favorite, somebody decides to go nuclear...If I would be putting money on it, i would go with something "different" from the above list. It has a feeling of an unmanaged crisis with sudden sharp tangents almost inevitable...remember that the only reason none of that happened so far is that Putin is a moderate, boring, careful and very sober guy...he has kept it predictable and safe. Another reason the stupid analogies dont work.

    Replies: @QCIC, @AP

    “…De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally.”

    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism.

    Don’t pretend that you don’t undertsand Rusia.

    According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government.

    Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?

    Under the Russian understanding of de-Nazification, the only acceptable political parties allowed to exist in Ukraine would be a reborn Party of Regions, Communists, or Russian nationalists.

    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that “de-nazification’ is a slogan and cant’t be properly assessed

    It’s pretty clear because we know whom the Russian government regards as Nazis. It means regime change and elimination of all pro-Western Ukrainian political parties.

    You only have to read the comments by some of the Western morons who get all their information from Russian government sources, to see whom the Russian state regards as Nazis: any Ukrainian nationalist.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government....Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?
     
    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko, or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk, etc.. nationalists and none of them would be considered a Nazi. Even Poroshenko (not sure). The problem with Zelko is that he has gone nuts, he is not a "Nazi" by any standard, but has started to endorse and tolerate the Nazi nationalists who worship Bandera - Russians for a good reason consider that Nazi-like. As do Poles, Slovaks, Czechs, Jews - and almost all of the West before they decided that for political reasons they will look the other way.

    You massively exaggerate the Russian position that is more moderate - although it is radicalizing. In effect, you are lying for a losing cause - Ukies are not going to win - not a good place to be. It also prevents a dialogue: demonizing your enemy is the worst strategy if you are the weaker side. Kiev could have ended this with a reasonable compromise - with Minsk, or last spring with Minsk+, a peace agreement that would not be perfect, temporary, but would save tens of thousands of lives.

    It is obvious to any rational observer that Russia will not back down unless totally defeated. The defeat is very unlikely, so this will go on killing countless Ukies and some Russians, destroying the country, making some in the West (and in Ukraine) rich, and it will eventually end with a deal that Kiev could have had at any point. Or, alternatively, Ukies will go down in a total defeat and all you dreams - even the normal ones - will be destroyed for a generation.

    Those are the choices. All else are false hopes, hoping for miracles, and pure unadulterated hatred and anger. Ukies (and you) had a choice and they chose wrong...it happens, but the triple doubling down as they are doing now is rare.

    Replies: @AP

  469. @Coconuts
    @sudden death

    I don't think so at the moment, they have already changed the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever. So far this seems to be the Brexit dividend on migration.

    But I think this Ben guy is supposed to be a Conservative or on the right, there are definitely other Conservatives who are favourable to free-market policies like this.

    Afaik the opinion polls keep showing a swing to the left on government spending and welfare provision, and moderately to the right on social issues. These Conservatives are far to the right on free-market economics and at the same time usually further left/liberal than most voters on social issues, after the next election they may be kept away from power and influence for some time.

    Replies: @sudden death

    they have alreadychanged the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever.

    This is not a reply to your reasonable points, just will indulge into repeating my own comment from 2019:

    But that was so easily predictable even before Brexit hysteria it is hard to believe it comes now as some kind of surprise.

    There was absolutely unpleasant, but strategic choice – either you are getting a lot of Eastern european immigration, and yes, many of them being white thrash, prone to petty criminal deeds, but having very weak national identity and being easily completely assimilated in the long run even without assimilational politics or either you are getting mass muslim immigration from multihundred million population states such as Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. which actually outnumbers whole Eastern Europe and has people who are absolutely not capable to assimilation in the long run.

    But it seems many even were/are not capable or simply refusing to realize the very existence of such choice.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-77/#comment-3242512

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @sudden death

    I thought about something like this at the time, but I think I was aware it would have been impossible for anyone to argue for keeping immigration from the EU but reducing it from outside countries. I remember there still being a really strict taboo about mentioning non-white immigration, whereas Polish immigrants could be publicly discussed because they are Europeans. Ironically, now with wokeness they have probably made race something people are more comfortable talking about.

    The other issue was the existence of two pro-Brexit campaigns, iirc there was a populist one run by Farage and what I remember as a small weird one run by Johnson and some globalist clowns. Farage seemed to be hinting at general reductions in all immigration, the clowns had some sort of global Britain idea but not too many details about the immigration side. (I didn't pay a lot of attention to them).

    Later a strange and drawn out combination of events led to the weird globalists ending up in power.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  470. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    The veil such a sacred garment has place for the eyes, but not the mouth.
    The Lord knows best.

    https://i.redd.it/f94h2hour0e71.jpg

    https://www.sikhnet.com/news/islamic-india-biggest-holocaust-world-history

    You survived by converting - the Khalsa lost 70% of its forces in the Great Holocaust of 1762.
    Within 4 months they celebrated Diwali by removing the Afghans from Panjab.

    A task neither Pakistani, Hindu, British, American or Russian can be said to accomplish.
    Neither Alexander,
    --
    This is not to brag you are after all a woman.
    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.

    As you are like my mother I will not mention the third place a woman is expert.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.

    Sorry, won’t be able to be of help there. I cook beef.

    [MORE]

    You survived by converting

    The hillforts of Semigallia are burning
    With crimson flames.
    The Semigallians are abandoning their native homesteads.

    The same way Prussia is burning as well,
    And the land becomes empty.
    But there are a few left who are still fighting,
    Who do not drop their weapons.

    Under the Lithuanian banners they gather,
    All of them who are fighters.
    For justice.
    For the faith of the ancestors.
    For the Fatherland and freedom.

    In the Battle of Grunwald,
    The Order will meet its end.
    But the struggle will not end
    Until there is still someone..

    There is always someone who envies,
    Always someone who cannot get enough,
    Who cannot allow others to live in peace
    His hammer clangs, while forging shackles for others.

    A hawk soars freely in the Lithuanian sky.
    The battle is not over until the last hero is still alive!

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/some-notes-on-the-heathen-lithuania-and-its-demise/

    That's fine we'll kill anyone who engages in cow slaughter, Just sit tight.
    Weird to take ethnic pride in a people your ancestors cast off & saw as heathens.

    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

  471. @S
    @songbird


    I love hearing Irish people speak Irish, and even other Europeans, and Kiwis, and Aussies.
     
    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.


    https://youtu.be/aUsIYDcDo28

    Hopkin at age 18 singing Turn, Turn, Turn...

    https://youtu.be/5dJQR1bBFvM

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    Happened to run into this just yesterday. Tom Jones and Mary Hopkin (both Wales born) speaking Welsh, one of the six living Celtic languages, at 0:05 and 5:05 respectively.

    Considering Irish is spoken by less than 2% of (elderly) Irish people, and the language as is being taught is frequently utterly bastardised and mangled by its “teachers” passing it on (I once spoke with someone who worked full-time translating Irish into EU documents, who waxed lyrical about this… talk about the ultimate sinecure), I’m not sure if it can be counted as really ‘living’. Don’t know about Scottish Gaelic or Breton but I imagine the situation there is significantly poorer. Cornish (and Manx, I think?) went extinct as living languages sometime ago, recent attention from hobbyists notwithstanding.
    So really, Welsh could be considered the only living Celtic language, practically speaking.

    Nice. I was learning Welsh as a hobby for a few months at the turn of 2022, being interested in Celtic language and picking it largely for reasons stated above, but also because Welsh is the only Insular Celtic language with a sane orthography (don’t know about Breton to judge).
    Although ultimately I found the lack of living material (as opposed to grammars/educational manuals) to work with, whether written or with ultimately too frustrating.
    I’d try looking up various topical keywords in Welsh (a decent litmus test for casual usage of a language amongst young people) on youtube for listening practice and general curiosity, but results were extremely meagre. A lot of videos posted were self-evidently done as part of school projects (I can see it:‘activity 5d: make a vlog in Welsh!’) or were BBC-Cymraeg videos with under 100 or even 0 views.

    Of course, Wales is a nation of under 1 million people (of whom a 5th to a 3rd are recent English immigrants) and I very rarely look up specifically look anything on youtube in Armenian, unless it’s something highly local, and even then it’s usually better to read about it.

  472. @QCIC
    @songbird

    Agree. I can't fix everything.

    Some women look great in short hair (not sure if this is what you meant). They often have fantastic bone structure and other feminine/female traits which look great under all conditions. Sometimes they may be trying to "dress down" with the short hair, but this just rubs in their perfection for other girls.

    Of course they usually look better with more hair, but variety is not a bad thing when we are talking about beautiful women.

    Replies: @A123, @songbird

    Probably got a suspicious mind, but have suspected that there was something sinister (CIA? Gay mafia?) behind this Silversun Pickups video:

    [MORE]

    (Guy’s hair is longer than the girl’s.)

    Maybe, it is weird to say, but I have before admired the back of a woman’s head. Like the nape, the back of the ears. Which makes me wonder what was the hairstyle of cave-women. I suspect that they did sometimes tie their hair.

    Think I admired a girl with short hair exactly once, in college and that was because she was wearing something that wouldn’t have passed the dress code of my high school in multiple ways and directly and unavoidably very up close in my field of view, for a long period of time.

    So, maybe, it proves your point. But I do think most such girls seem to be lesbians, and look a bit off. (Though this one didn’t and probably wasn’t)

    Probably what I dislike more is guys with long hair. Zeihan has some kind of man-bun or something, and I wondered whether he would have it, if our society wasn’t so gay.

    BTW, any opinion on peak Sinead? Think Dmitri said she had a very beautiful face, but I have honestly never been able to see it. (And I would think I would be more susceptible to Irish beauty) Not sure if it is the buzzcut or not.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @songbird

    That is a neat little video. Most wholesome thing I've seen in a long time. The girl is cute, good looking but not striking. She has a bit of ambiguity which is what they were going for.

    Don't be a hater of long hair. I let my hair grow out late in life. A person's hair is only a slight clue, if any, to who and what they may or may not be. I think Zeihan is some sort of con man and I imagine his hairstyle is affected.

    I don't have an opinion on Sinead. She was attractive enough to pull it off, but it wasn't a killer look. I subconsciously assumed that was the point.

    Replies: @songbird

  473. @Ron Unz
    @Leaves No Shadow


    That half would bring more gas than could be sold and Russia most certainly didn’t want NS1 open, as they had previously closed it despite Germany’s objections
     
    It's nice to see that you're still around on this website and I hope you do stay here even if certain dramatic events soon happen in the Ukraine war.

    Meanwhile, for you and everyone else here are a couple of nice additional interviews, one with Douglas Macgregor and one with Seymour Hersh:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHi1AvTtyL8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BuMaGlKp0

    Ideologically, they're obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO, something I'd suggested from almost the day it occurred. He also seems to think that the Ukrainian forces are currently suffering crushing defeats.

    It's hardly surprising that when the West is submerged in a sea of dishonest propaganda, those most visibly standing tall above the lies are often the highest-ranking figures, individuals such as Hersh, Macgregor, John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, and Ray McGovern. I discussed all of this in my current piece:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/standing-upright-amid-a-sea-of-lies/

    So either a good number of America's most eminent academic scholars, journalists, and national security experts have all gone totally insane, or the claims of our political and MSM elites are entirely divorced from reality. Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123, @Brás Cubas, @Yevardian

    Funny, I just noticed the embed link for Amy Goodman’s interview with Hersh now no longer works, as it’s been ‘Age Restricted for Sensitive or Upsetting Content’… Macgregor’s video is still up though.

    I can only speculate this ‘shadow-banning’ of sorts happened in the instance of ‘Democracy Now!’ so quickly is due to an assumption it might sway large numbers of fence-sitters, whilst Ritter, MacGregor and the like have obviously been preaching solely to the converted for a long time.

    I’d be watching closely if/how the MSM reacts to this, if the ‘total blackout’ route is taken, my estimation it was a US-overseen operation jumps from 95% to 99%.

    • Agree: AnonfromTN
    • Thanks: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Yevardian

    however, Hersh at this age keeps saying several times in that video about EU having cold winter, so if the guy isn't capable to factcheck or know what's in the open, how on earth does make him more believable or capable investigating/checking on allegedly very secret stuff details he got from someone else?

    ofc, itself this doesn't exclude the source, whatever he was, giving trutful info, but Hersh these days is just megaphone in human form.

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yevardian

    Russia had lied to already close Nordstream 1 in order to force the opening of Nordstream 2 and, when that didn't work, this happened:

    On 26 September 2022, Danish and Swedish authorities reported a number of explosions at pipes A and B of the Nord Stream 1 pipeline and pipe A of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, with the resulting damage causing significant gas leaks. The European Union considers the incident to be sabotage. On 3 October, Russia confirmed that pipe B of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline remains operable and that delivery of gas to Europe through Nord Stream 2 is possible.

  474. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Russia may take as much territory as she can control. Unz readers should start discussing post-SMO Ukraine. Even for those who expect Ukraine will prevail I think this discussion may be a helpful exercise to understand the Russian strategy. Russia must reintegrate and restore order and create a neutral part of the Ukraine. If not, they are simply watering the seeds of the next conflict.

    Russia will have no serious difficultly reconnecting with Donbas and Crimea, so those are not worth discussing in this context. But what if she hypothetically achieves a line of control from Kharkov down to Odessa, including Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia? A compliant government would be set up, probably with difficulty. A temporary post-war transition economy must be established. Repair and restoration will start.

    They would work to attenuate hatred against Russia and redirect it towards the West. I think she will try to selectively restore industries that keep Ukrainians alive and others which have some sort of synergy with Russian industry. In other words those which fill gaps in the Russian supply chain.

    What else is important?

    Of the the four cities I listed, which are the hardest and easiest for Russia to reconnect with?

    Replies: @A123

    How many civilians are left in Zaporizhzhia?

    It has the same survival dynamic as Kherson with the sides flipped. It will be very hard for the Kiev regime to keep, and there is no upside to letting RF liberators capture it intact.

    If an armistice is achieved with the city is still intact and under Kiev control… How many Ukrainians will want to be that close to Russian artillery? It will be destined to decline.

    The only slim hope for Zaporizhzhia as a rebounding and economically successful city is to be intact on the Russian side of the border. There is no route to that desirable end point. And, even this best case is fraught with opportunities for decline.

    PEACE 😇

  475. @Yevardian
    @Ron Unz

    Funny, I just noticed the embed link for Amy Goodman's interview with Hersh now no longer works, as it's been 'Age Restricted for Sensitive or Upsetting Content'... Macgregor's video is still up though.

    I can only speculate this 'shadow-banning' of sorts happened in the instance of 'Democracy Now!' so quickly is due to an assumption it might sway large numbers of fence-sitters, whilst Ritter, MacGregor and the like have obviously been preaching solely to the converted for a long time.

    I'd be watching closely if/how the MSM reacts to this, if the 'total blackout' route is taken, my estimation it was a US-overseen operation jumps from 95% to 99%.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    however, Hersh at this age keeps saying several times in that video about EU having cold winter, so if the guy isn’t capable to factcheck or know what’s in the open, how on earth does make him more believable or capable investigating/checking on allegedly very secret stuff details he got from someone else?

    ofc, itself this doesn’t exclude the source, whatever he was, giving trutful info, but Hersh these days is just megaphone in human form.

  476. @AP
    @Ron Unz


    Again, they’ve either all suddenly gone crazy together or they’re probably right.
     
    Or they are all disgruntled with the American Establishment and as a result want to take a contrarian view.

    Wasn’t MacGregor predicting a Ukrainian collapse last spring, then summer, then fall?

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Wokechoke

    I don’t see any contradiction between someone being a supporter of the Ukrainian government in this war and also seeing the idea that Russia blew up Nordstream as self-evidently absurd.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Yevardian

    Sure, those guys write nonsense on other issues too though, and I was focused on them as nonsense-writers in general and not on this issue specifically.

    I think the most likely culprit are not the Americans directly but some private group (Polish, Baltic or Ukrainian?) given a go ahead by the Americans.

    But I wouldn't exclude the Americans, or the Russians.

    Replies: @A123

  477. @sudden death
    @Coconuts


    they have alreadychanged the immigration rules to be more liberal for people from outside Europe so 500,000 new immigrants arrived last year, the highest ever.
     
    This is not a reply to your reasonable points, just will indulge into repeating my own comment from 2019:

    But that was so easily predictable even before Brexit hysteria it is hard to believe it comes now as some kind of surprise.

    There was absolutely unpleasant, but strategic choice – either you are getting a lot of Eastern european immigration, and yes, many of them being white thrash, prone to petty criminal deeds, but having very weak national identity and being easily completely assimilated in the long run even without assimilational politics or either you are getting mass muslim immigration from multihundred million population states such as Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. which actually outnumbers whole Eastern Europe and has people who are absolutely not capable to assimilation in the long run.

    But it seems many even were/are not capable or simply refusing to realize the very existence of such choice.
     

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-77/#comment-3242512

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I thought about something like this at the time, but I think I was aware it would have been impossible for anyone to argue for keeping immigration from the EU but reducing it from outside countries. I remember there still being a really strict taboo about mentioning non-white immigration, whereas Polish immigrants could be publicly discussed because they are Europeans. Ironically, now with wokeness they have probably made race something people are more comfortable talking about.

    The other issue was the existence of two pro-Brexit campaigns, iirc there was a populist one run by Farage and what I remember as a small weird one run by Johnson and some globalist clowns. Farage seemed to be hinting at general reductions in all immigration, the clowns had some sort of global Britain idea but not too many details about the immigration side. (I didn’t pay a lot of attention to them).

    Later a strange and drawn out combination of events led to the weird globalists ending up in power.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Later a strange and drawn out combination of events led to the weird globalists ending up in power.
     
    It's not strange at all in a Globalized economy. They control the finance. Money rules.
  478. @Yahya
    @Greasy William


    B.) Looks Irish as the day is long.
     
    I know; that's why I said she looks Black Irish.

    I don’t see anything remotely Near Eastern in Connelly’s appearance

     

    I know; that's why I said she requires some facial surgery to pass in the Middle East.

    Her hair and skin color already fit the bill; just the facial features are too European for the Middle East.

    On the other hand; some native Middle Easterners look more Irish than Connelly:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02943/izzat-al-douri-ira_2943572b.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-UzxqpPLc8&ab_channel=ABCNews

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkvxJYG1coI&ab_channel=MazeejByLucasSakr

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_zetLvrhE&ab_channel=DalalAbuAmneh-%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%A8%D9%88%D8%A2%D9%85%D9%86%D8%A9

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Not Raul

    Harry’s real father?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    Is that guy in background naturally michaeljacksoned or wears some face prosthetic after injury?

    Replies: @Not Raul

  479. @A123
    @Ron Unz


    Ideologically, they’re obviously poles-apart, but they both think that the US government is totally delusional and self-destructive in its Russia/Ukraine policy, with the MSM following along behind.
     
    Terminology is important. To be delusional, one must have the ability to think clearly (at least in spurts). Therefore, the current administration is not delusional. Not-The-President Biden is far gone, well past that threshold. This creates a problem for Hersh and his anonymously sourced piece: (1)

    Sy Hersh Swings and Misses Big

    The most astounding claim in the blockbuster new article from Seymour Hersh alleging that the U.S. is responsible for sabotaging two of Russia’s natural gas pipelines is that the Biden administration is led by a no-nonsense crew of highly capable tacticians. Forget what you’ve heard about secret classified documents turning up in various Biden residences; in Hersh’s telling the Biden White House practices exceptional operational security.

     

    It is especially telling that the MSM has covered up the highly plausible industrial mishap scenario. The biggest problems with an attack are geography and timing.

    • Why did ruptures happen 17 hours apart?
    • Why were only 3 of 4 pipes hit?
    • Can anyone explain this geography?

    The fact that the events happened at or near bends is strongly indicative that moving hydrate slugs blew out the system from the inside. (2)


    Anyone notice anything interesting about the ruptures at 02:03 hours and 19:03 hours?

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/nord-292x300.jpg

    Assuming that the map accurately represents the course of the pipelines; and assuming that the map accurately represents the location of the ruptures … wah-ho, isn’t that interesting, as Dear Old Dad would say?

    Even more interesting is this little tidbit, also via email. Russia was having compressor “issues” on Nord 1, enough that the whole sodding compressor station was “shut down” and a “hazardous production facility”.

    Is anyone else getting the twitchies regarding the fact that at least some of the equipment that keeps the pipeline pressurised was off-line? Just me? Oh, well then. Carry on.
     

    Why does the Fake Stream Media keep this under lock & key? Could it be that the media is directed by the warmongering WEF of Davos, a city not in the U.S., which wants to reset the entire human race?

    Hersh wonders whether the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will cause the collapse of NATO
     
    The German Green party, part of the Scholz Traffic Light Coalition, also wanted NordStream gone. Thus, there is no victim when the supposedly injured party actively wanted the supposed harm. This has no impact on NATO.

    If anyone wants to go with attack theories, the German Greens are a more likely perpetrator than the befuddled, incompetent regime occupying the White House. The German Greens had everything to gain and nothing to lose, much like the Poles.

    That being said -- NATO is too large, has members pulling opposite directions, and does not have a mission. This has been true for decades. Every unwise expansion brings the defensive alliance closer to disintegration.

    Can anyone imagine Türkiye putting troops on the ground in Ukraine to fight Russia? A political admission of a new but smaller Ukrainian entity would be an irrevocable step towards the irrelevancy of NATO. Although, such folly would almost certainly be vetoed or procedurally mired into never happening.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith

    (2) https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/10/nordstream-ii-electric-instapundit.html

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Not Raul

    The theory that the destruction of the pipelines was an accident is interesting. Thank you.

    IMHO, it was probably a Polish attack; but I wish that the possibility that it was an accident got more coverage.

    • Thanks: A123
  480. The IslamoSoros delivers a fatal, completely terminal, ultra death blow to DeSantis 2024 campaign: (1)

    Ron DeSantis Wins the Coveted George Soros Endorsement – Describing DeSantis as “Shrewd, Ruthless and Ambitious”…

    When billionaire leftist and creepy globalist George Soros is complimenting your personality attributes, you just might be doing the whole Republican presidential candidate thing wrong. Just sayin’.

    This might be problematic. In addition to DeSantis supporters needing to defend the unlimited Ukraine grift, and the value of eating bugs as a conservative lifestyle, now they have to spin an endorsement of ruthless ambition by Darth Soros. Eh, sucks to be them.

    No matter how skilled DeSantis may be… The embrace of George IslamoSoros is so unclean, the toxicity cannot be washed away.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/16/ron-desantis-wins-the-coveted-george-soros-endorsement-describing-desantis-as-shrewd-ruthless-and-ambitious/

    • Replies: @AP
    @A123



    https://twitter.com/megebrock/status/1626633667433926656?s=46&t=s_6qcAtOkIhlOK3P1zrQaQ

    Replies: @A123

  481. @Yevardian
    @AP

    I don't see any contradiction between someone being a supporter of the Ukrainian government in this war and also seeing the idea that Russia blew up Nordstream as self-evidently absurd.

    Replies: @AP

    Sure, those guys write nonsense on other issues too though, and I was focused on them as nonsense-writers in general and not on this issue specifically.

    I think the most likely culprit are not the Americans directly but some private group (Polish, Baltic or Ukrainian?) given a go ahead by the Americans.

    But I wouldn’t exclude the Americans, or the Russians.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AP


    I think the most likely culprit are not the Americans directly but some private group (Polish, Baltic or Ukrainian?) given a go ahead by the Americans.
     
    Why in God's name would a private group seek a "go ahead" from Not-The-President Biden's porous regime?

    That would be akin to advertising in advance. Any group with the tiniest iota of common sense would view an information leak to the White House occupant's junta as anathema. Anything resembling a "go ahead" would immediately scrub the mission as an epic security failure.

    The top two contenders for a private effort are a Polish group or German Greens. They both have everything to gain & little to lose.

    PEACE 😇

  482. @Ron Unz
    @Mr. Hack


    I hate to break-up your party, but:
     
    Sure, there are lots of prominent individuals taking the other side of the issue, as well as 99.9% of the MSM.

    But nearly all of those individuals are directly tied to the American establishment and often employed by it, so how could they say or do anything else?

    That's exactly what happened during the Iraq War, and some of them had been heavily involved in that as well:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-life-and-legacy-of-lt-gen-william-odom/

    When the media/political/financial landscape is tilted 100-to-1 on one side of an issue, it's hardly surprising that you can find lots of people taking that side.

    However, when you find a group of individuals of the stature of Hersh, Mearsheimer, Sachs, Macgregor, and McGovern taking the opposite side, that really gets my attention and leads me to believe they're correct.

    Again, they've either all suddenly gone crazy together or they're probably right.

    Replies: @AP, @AnonfromTN, @Not Raul

    Off topic request:

    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.

    Maybe have the thread close 24 hours after the 200th reply, so the average thread would end with about 300 replies.

    • Disagree: Yevardian, Ivashka the fool, Sher Singh, Barbarossa
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    An automatic new thread is good idea, but cut off after 300 seems way too low, as splintering discussion is the whole point and good feature of such open threads.

    So far thousand replies in general seems to be the point when it is starting technically lagging to load, so would offer to leave that limit in case of automated option.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @A123
    @Not Raul


    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.
     
    The tangents are a desirable characteristic in Open Thread culture. Well.... At least in this OT.

    There is a function for "This Thread" as a button below. Thus, a slow rolling topic can be isolated if desired.

    I suspect that I have the least capable mobile device of anyone here. And, I can generally get to ~800 posts unless there are significant numbers of resource intensive tweets. The current cycle seems to work for the most active participants, so there is little driving reason for change.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Not Raul

  483. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    If the answer is that is not the goal, the goal is to maul Russia and preserve something of Ukraine as a forward base against Russia (for the future), then how and who is going to stop Russia once the Ukies are militarily exhausted?
     
    Ukraine is never going to be militarily exhausted. That is the problem with Russia's strategy. Ukraine is not 1941 Finland, Ukraine has the manpower and foreign support to fight forever.

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia's strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn't going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Barring a sudden economic collapse of the United States, a Ukrainian breakthrough and the destruction of the Russian army in Ukraine is a matter of when, not if. Seeing this is not a matter of preference or ideology, it's simply a matter of understanding how modern war works.

    As for the idea that Russia can win by just fighting forever, not likely. Without the direct military intervention of the Western Allies (nevermind the blockade of Germany and Anglo American Lend-Lease), a much stronger Russia than the one that exists today would have been forced to accept an extremely disadvantageous peace against the Nazis. Russia attempted the "fight forever" strategy in WWI and it led to Russia suffering back to back revolutions, a civil war and 70 years of Communist enslavement.

    And I say all this as someone who hates the West and hates America, and as someone who has at times been extremely bullish on Russian prospects in this war. On the surface, this conflict appears competitive but in truth Russia is doomed. This shit is over just like things were over for Nazi Germany already in July 1941, even though nobody (except Hitler, ironically) could see it yet.

    The only way I can see Russia even forcing a stalemate (not a victory, that ship has sailed) is if there is a Western economic collapse. The only way there will be a Western economic collapse is if the Yen detonates which proceeds to cause a chain reaction that knocks over all the other fiat currencies including the USD. Unfortunately, the US will be in recession in 3 more months which means the Fed will cut rates which means the Yen will surge.

    I'm all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left. GloboHomo can only be defeated from within, no external opponent can challenge it.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @QCIC, @Yevardian

    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia’s strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn’t going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.

    Assuming unlimited Ukrainian manpower like that is a pretty hazardous assumption, at this stage nearly every adult Ukrainian male who wants to fight or contribute in some other way militarily is likely already doing so. Conscription from this point will have to become increasingly cooercive.

    The US fought in Vietnam to a standstill for a decade, until the deep domestic American unpopularity of the war forced ‘Vietnamisation’ and eventually total withdrawal from the war, and then and only then was the Tet Offensive successful.
    Combined North/South Vietnam in the late 70s had roughly 50 million people, Ukraine in 2023, after recent mass emigration to the EU, has perhaps half that population.
    Based on what we’ve seen already, I don’t see any mass civil-unrest happening in Russia as a result of the war that could in any way significantly alter the Kremlin’s policy. Actually, the stability of Putin’s government even after the disgustingly bungled opening phases of the invasion surprised me, compare this to USSR’s domestic problems arising from involvement in Afghanistan. Almost certainly Russian casualties are far higher after just a year’s fighting in Ukraine, than the decade-long Soviet involvement in Afghanistan.
    So, based on this, I’m cautiously now leaning towards a rough stalemate in Ukraine, discounting any total wildcards like direct European military involvement, mass civil unrest, or Germans standing up for their own interests.

    I’m all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left.

    Europe is screwed, but the US and the Anglosphere will be totally fine.

    uddenDeath

    however, Hersh at this age keeps saying several times in that video about EU having cold winter, so if the guy isn’t capable to factcheck or know what’s in the open, how on earth does make him more believable or capable investigating/checking on allegedly very secret stuff details he got from someone else?

    ‘Cold Winter’ may have simply been expressing one with limited heating. But yes this European Winter was a record high, iirc.

    More patently, do you have any examples of Hersh being unambigiously mistaken/lying with regard to any particular claim?
    I’d be curious to see the opinion of a public figure totally uninvolved with this conflict, with nothing to lose, thinks about it. Say, someone like Finkelstein.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Yevardian


    ...Cold Winter’ may have simply been expressing one with limited heating.
     
    The 'cold' is more of a symbol, few people look under the surface at what happens. The weather has impact on the actual consumption and prices - but it only causes spikes due to logistics when there are extremes.

    In Czechia and Slovakia through Jan 31 the energy (gas) consumption was down 23% compared to 2022. It is not the weather, but because of a timed shutdown of large industry. There was also a small drop in consumer consumption with more efficiency, turning off lights...

    The real impact of not getting an almost unlimited cheap Russian cheap energy is on prices and industry - large industrial consumers (metals, fertilizers, chemical...) either shut down or reduced production because their costs went up 50-200%. Some now don't operate in winter period because the prices for gas are so much higher. This is permanent - same is true in Germany, Austria..

    The result is that prices for any material production are up and will continue rising - not in a shocking jump like last year (30-50% for food), but substantially. The retards in Brussels will boast that the 'rate of inflation increase has dropped' - just think about it mathematically, it is nonsense.

    The long-term consequences will be a shift in production away from Central-Eastern Europe to places w cheaper energy (Asia, US...). That is the "cold winter" - nobody will freeze, but more tourists and NGO chair-warmers paid for with fiat EU money and smaller material economy. The real consequences are 3-5 years from now, maybe polishing artillery for the eastern war will substitute for the lost economy. But the industrial economy as it was pre-2022 will change, and not for better...

    Thank you, Maidan fanatics, the 'kill the Moskali' and 'we are Nato' slogans will turn out to be costly.

  484. @songbird
    @QCIC

    Probably got a suspicious mind, but have suspected that there was something sinister (CIA? Gay mafia?) behind this Silversun Pickups video:
    https://youtu.be/z-mxBDuRaZ8

    (Guy's hair is longer than the girl's.)

    Maybe, it is weird to say, but I have before admired the back of a woman's head. Like the nape, the back of the ears. Which makes me wonder what was the hairstyle of cave-women. I suspect that they did sometimes tie their hair.

    Think I admired a girl with short hair exactly once, in college and that was because she was wearing something that wouldn't have passed the dress code of my high school in multiple ways and directly and unavoidably very up close in my field of view, for a long period of time.

    So, maybe, it proves your point. But I do think most such girls seem to be lesbians, and look a bit off. (Though this one didn't and probably wasn't)

    Probably what I dislike more is guys with long hair. Zeihan has some kind of man-bun or something, and I wondered whether he would have it, if our society wasn't so gay.

    BTW, any opinion on peak Sinead? Think Dmitri said she had a very beautiful face, but I have honestly never been able to see it. (And I would think I would be more susceptible to Irish beauty) Not sure if it is the buzzcut or not.

    Replies: @QCIC

    That is a neat little video. Most wholesome thing I’ve seen in a long time. The girl is cute, good looking but not striking. She has a bit of ambiguity which is what they were going for.

    Don’t be a hater of long hair. I let my hair grow out late in life. A person’s hair is only a slight clue, if any, to who and what they may or may not be. I think Zeihan is some sort of con man and I imagine his hairstyle is affected.

    I don’t have an opinion on Sinead. She was attractive enough to pull it off, but it wasn’t a killer look. I subconsciously assumed that was the point.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @QCIC


    Most wholesome thing I’ve seen in a long time.
     
    Honestly, did like the part where they do the glance across the room. IMO, it is almost Japanese in spirit (although probably not.) At any rate, a departure from standard Hollywood, which seems generally very extroverted and doesn't do introverted very well.

    End of the video could kind of be seen as social training, to teach guys to give their friends a little space, when they have a thing for a girl. A little more stuff like that wouldn't hurt the public, IMO.

    But one reason I think it is subversive is that they also had a video with two lesbos (dots and dashes). Not as good a sound, or as entertaining.

    BTW, I hope when the Tetris movie comes out, someone here will review it:
    https://youtu.be/-BLM1naCfME
  485. @Yahya
    @Yahya

    Some more quotes:


    We intend to make the case that human evolution has accelerated in the past 10,000 years, rather than slowing or stopping, and is now happening about 100 times faster than its long-term average over the 6 million years of our existence. The pace has been so rapid that humans have changed significantly in body and mind over recorded history. Sargon and Imhotep1 were different from you genetically as well as culturally. This is a radical idea and hard to believe—it’s rather like trees growing noticeably as you watch. But as we will show in the following pages, the evidence is there.

    All this means that just as humans 40,000 years ago were significantly different from their ancestors 100,000 years ago (much more inventive, in particular), humans today are different in many ways from our ancestors of 40,000 BC, and, considering the accelerated rate of change, different from our ancestors of early historical times as well. We can empathize with the heroes of the Iliad (well, Odysseus at any rate)—but we’re not the same.

    ———

    The rate of change over the past few thousand years is far greater than this long-term rate over the past few million years, on the order of 100 times greater. If humans had always been evolving this rapidly, the genetic difference between us and chimpanzees would be far larger than it actually is.

    Again and again over the past few thousand years, a favorable mutation has occurred in some individual and spread widely, until a significant fraction of the human race now bears that mutated allele. Sometimes almost everyone in a large geographic region, such as Europe or East Asia, shares a trait that goes back to one such allele. The mutation can affect many different things—skin color, metabolism, defense against infectious disease, central nervous system features, and any number of other traits and functions.
     

    Replies: @AP, @Ivashka the fool

    All right, let’s get it sorted.

    1) Out of Africa expansion of the modern (Cro Magnon) humans is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”). Many Chinese, and some Russian anthropologists do not agree with this hypothesis. We are indeed family, but we might have branched out before the period of the postulated out of Africa expansion (ca. – 40K years).

    2) Evolution is a) mutations, b) selection through environment for reproductive fitness in a given environment. The novel alleles arise only through mutation or recombination. The rate of recombination depends on chromosome similarity and biophysical features of the chromosomal DNA. The mutation rate is highly variable accross the chromosomes depending on their biophysical (mainly the degree of coiling) and biochemical features (methylation, which is also important in epigenetics). However, the mutation rate for a given base pair locus is nearly constant in the absence of a mutagen (chemical compounds interfering with DNA replication, oxidative stress, ionizing radiation). Only mutagens increase the rate of production of novel alleles.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through rvolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    4) During the colonization of Eurasia by the Cro Magnon, they mate and they mated with the other branches of the human species: Neanderthal and Denisovan people. This has indeed resulted in an admixture of up to max 4% of modern human Eurasian genome being of Neanderthal origin and up to max 6% of some South Eastern Asian populations being of Denisovan ancestry. The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit. Why ? Because a) an allele is only beneficial in a given environment b) most our alleles are already beneficial and have been selected by the evolution even prior to the encounter with the other ancient human subspecies c) saying that all alleles acquired from the other ancient humans are always more beneficial is a complete nonsense (see points a) and b).

    5) The claim that the introgression and recombination of the Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA has somewhat accelerated our evolution is incompatible with the nature of the evolution, see point 2). The ancient DNA inherited from the other human subspecies can provide some novel alleles and contribute to novel possibilities of recombination, it might also influence somewhat the coiling of the DNA around the loci where it integrated. But it is not a mutagen. Therefore, overall the rate of mutations has probably stayed constant in our genomes. This can be proven easily by comparing the mutation rate per nucleotide between the populations that recombined after introgression and those who never mated with the other archaic humans. Do you really think that the mutation rate of Sub-Saharan Afeicans is lower than the rate of mutations of Eurasian populations ? That would be utter racism !

    6) If the mutations rate did not increase, then how can we explain the drastic change of phenotype in modern humans ? a) Possibly the out of Africa expansion of Cro Magnon is bogus and the different phenotypes had a much longer type to arise in different regions of Eurasia. b) The extremely stringent selection by the Ice Age and the ensuing megafauna (around 90% mortality) has selected for different cognitive and physical traits. A selection that the African populations did not undergo.

    7) The Neolithic Revolution has been possible due to these novel aptitudes selected by the major population bottlenecks described in 6). It was not the cause but the consequence.

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    3) should read "selected through evolution"

    6) ensuing megafauna extinction

    I am too lazy to correct the other typos. If something is unclear, please write.

    , @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    1) Out of Africa exit of the modern (Cro Magnon) men is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”).
     
    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog "West Hunter" you'll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    but we might have branched out before the period of out of Africa exit (ca. – 40K years).

     

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    The Out of Africa hypothesis is a model for the origin and dispersal of modern humans. The hypothesis contends that humans evolved in East Africa, dispersing to populate the rest of the world from c.70,000 years ago, replacing, rather than interbreeding with, the archaic hominins that were resident outside of Africa. Disagreements exist over the timing and routes of dispersals, however, the major contention, which brings the hypothesis into competition with the multiregional model, is whether modern humans interbred with the archaic populations that they eventually replaced, such as Neanderthals.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118584538.ieba0357#:~:text=The%20Out%20of%20Africa%20hypothesis,were%20resident%20outside%20of%20Africa.

     

    Some put it earlier at 100,000-130,000 years ago. David Reich places it at 50K years.

    Only mutagens increase the production of novel alleles.

     

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through revolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

     

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    C&H go into detail about how various alleles were introduced following the agricultural revolution; some of whom were selected for adapting to farming life. For example, the allelle SLC24A5 which regulates skin color was introduced 5,800 years ago; and proceeded to make a rapid sweep throughout Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent India because it allowed the skin to absorb a greater amount of UV rays and convert them to vitamins. The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake; and the forces of evolution proceeded to make up for this deficiency by lightening our skin color. There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal's beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would've been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    The key property of an advantageous allele is that its frequency tends to increase with time, usually because it aids the bearer in some way. In a stable population, this means that the number of copies in the next generation is (on average) larger than the number in the current generation. If the average number of copies in the next generation were one and a quarter times larger than in the first, we would say that the allele had a selective advantage of 25 percent. As favorable alleles go, 25 percent is a very large advantage, although not unprecedented.

    J. B. S. Haldane, the great British geneticist (1892-1964), found a systematic way of adding up all these probabilities, and his method yields a surprisingly simple answer. If the allele confers an advantage s, its chance of going all the way is 2s. In a stable population, a single copy of an allele with a 10 percent fitness advantage has a 20 percent chance of eventually becoming universal.

    We’re not saying that the advent of agriculture somehow called forth mutations from the vasty deep that fitted people to the new order of things. Mutations are random, and as always, the overwhelming majority of them had neutral or negative effects. But more mutations occurred in large populations, some of them beneficial. Increased population size increased the supply of beneficial mutations just as buying many lottery tickets increases your chance of winning the prize.
     

    -----------

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

     

    The book was intended for a popular audience; so they cut down on technicalities and jargon. Greg Cochran runs a blog called West Hunter: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ and if you email him he can respond to your objections in a more technical manner (though he is cranky, so be warned). Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran's thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    Replies: @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!... in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Replies: @Sean, @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

  486. @AP
    @Yevardian

    Sure, those guys write nonsense on other issues too though, and I was focused on them as nonsense-writers in general and not on this issue specifically.

    I think the most likely culprit are not the Americans directly but some private group (Polish, Baltic or Ukrainian?) given a go ahead by the Americans.

    But I wouldn't exclude the Americans, or the Russians.

    Replies: @A123

    I think the most likely culprit are not the Americans directly but some private group (Polish, Baltic or Ukrainian?) given a go ahead by the Americans.

    Why in God’s name would a private group seek a “go ahead” from Not-The-President Biden’s porous regime?

    That would be akin to advertising in advance. Any group with the tiniest iota of common sense would view an information leak to the White House occupant’s junta as anathema. Anything resembling a “go ahead” would immediately scrub the mission as an epic security failure.

    The top two contenders for a private effort are a Polish group or German Greens. They both have everything to gain & little to lose.

    PEACE 😇

  487. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    All right, let's get it sorted.

    1) Out of Africa expansion of the modern (Cro Magnon) humans is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as "we are family"). Many Chinese, and some Russian anthropologists do not agree with this hypothesis. We are indeed family, but we might have branched out before the period of the postulated out of Africa expansion (ca. - 40K years).

    2) Evolution is a) mutations, b) selection through environment for reproductive fitness in a given environment. The novel alleles arise only through mutation or recombination. The rate of recombination depends on chromosome similarity and biophysical features of the chromosomal DNA. The mutation rate is highly variable accross the chromosomes depending on their biophysical (mainly the degree of coiling) and biochemical features (methylation, which is also important in epigenetics). However, the mutation rate for a given base pair locus is nearly constant in the absence of a mutagen (chemical compounds interfering with DNA replication, oxidative stress, ionizing radiation). Only mutagens increase the rate of production of novel alleles.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through rvolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    4) During the colonization of Eurasia by the Cro Magnon, they mate and they mated with the other branches of the human species: Neanderthal and Denisovan people. This has indeed resulted in an admixture of up to max 4% of modern human Eurasian genome being of Neanderthal origin and up to max 6% of some South Eastern Asian populations being of Denisovan ancestry. The claims made by the authors that "all beneficial alleles" in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit. Why ? Because a) an allele is only beneficial in a given environment b) most our alleles are already beneficial and have been selected by the evolution even prior to the encounter with the other ancient human subspecies c) saying that all alleles acquired from the other ancient humans are always more beneficial is a complete nonsense (see points a) and b).

    5) The claim that the introgression and recombination of the Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA has somewhat accelerated our evolution is incompatible with the nature of the evolution, see point 2). The ancient DNA inherited from the other human subspecies can provide some novel alleles and contribute to novel possibilities of recombination, it might also influence somewhat the coiling of the DNA around the loci where it integrated. But it is not a mutagen. Therefore, overall the rate of mutations has probably stayed constant in our genomes. This can be proven easily by comparing the mutation rate per nucleotide between the populations that recombined after introgression and those who never mated with the other archaic humans. Do you really think that the mutation rate of Sub-Saharan Afeicans is lower than the rate of mutations of Eurasian populations ? That would be utter racism !

    6) If the mutations rate did not increase, then how can we explain the drastic change of phenotype in modern humans ? a) Possibly the out of Africa expansion of Cro Magnon is bogus and the different phenotypes had a much longer type to arise in different regions of Eurasia. b) The extremely stringent selection by the Ice Age and the ensuing megafauna (around 90% mortality) has selected for different cognitive and physical traits. A selection that the African populations did not undergo.

    7) The Neolithic Revolution has been possible due to these novel aptitudes selected by the major population bottlenecks described in 6). It was not the cause but the consequence.

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

    3) should read “selected through evolution”

    6) ensuing megafauna extinction

    I am too lazy to correct the other typos. If something is unclear, please write.

  488. @Not Raul
    @Ron Unz

    Off topic request:

    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.

    Maybe have the thread close 24 hours after the 200th reply, so the average thread would end with about 300 replies.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    An automatic new thread is good idea, but cut off after 300 seems way too low, as splintering discussion is the whole point and good feature of such open threads.

    So far thousand replies in general seems to be the point when it is starting technically lagging to load, so would offer to leave that limit in case of automated option.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @sudden death

    Thanks. You’ve changed my mind.

    The limit should be much larger than 300; but less than 1000.

    Would 24 hours after the 700th reply be a good compromise?

    Replies: @sudden death

  489. @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    When I want advice on the hearth or cooking pot I will ask.
     
    Sorry, won't be able to be of help there. I cook beef.


    You survived by converting
     
    The hillforts of Semigallia are burning
    With crimson flames.
    The Semigallians are abandoning their native homesteads.

    The same way Prussia is burning as well,
    And the land becomes empty.
    But there are a few left who are still fighting,
    Who do not drop their weapons.

    Under the Lithuanian banners they gather,
    All of them who are fighters.
    For justice.
    For the faith of the ancestors.
    For the Fatherland and freedom.

    In the Battle of Grunwald,
    The Order will meet its end.
    But the struggle will not end
    Until there is still someone..

    There is always someone who envies,
    Always someone who cannot get enough,
    Who cannot allow others to live in peace
    His hammer clangs, while forging shackles for others.

    A hawk soars freely in the Lithuanian sky.
    The battle is not over until the last hero is still alive!

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/some-notes-on-the-heathen-lithuania-and-its-demise/

    That’s fine we’ll kill anyone who engages in cow slaughter, Just sit tight.
    Weird to take ethnic pride in a people your ancestors cast off & saw as heathens.

    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Sher Singh


    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.
     
    I thought that oxen was the big ticket item to sacrifice in ancient Greece and Rome.

    (I have even wondered if such a thing may have influenced the end or attenuation of human sacrifice.)

    BTW, didn't Sikhs eat oxen at the siege of Lohgrah?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @Yevardian
    @Sher Singh

    Animals held to be sacred don't get domesticated, and vice-versa (see bears, lions). The only exception that comes to mind is cats, but of course they were never eaten. And isn't India well outside the natural range of aurochs?
    Also the Greeks ate a large portion of their sacrifices.


    Assimilation:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/40/83/d0408387e80071233fd21960544fdbb6.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

  490. @Not Raul
    @Ron Unz

    Off topic request:

    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.

    Maybe have the thread close 24 hours after the 200th reply, so the average thread would end with about 300 replies.

    Replies: @sudden death, @A123

    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.

    The tangents are a desirable characteristic in Open Thread culture. Well…. At least in this OT.

    There is a function for “This Thread” as a button below. Thus, a slow rolling topic can be isolated if desired.

    I suspect that I have the least capable mobile device of anyone here. And, I can generally get to ~800 posts unless there are significant numbers of resource intensive tweets. The current cycle seems to work for the most active participants, so there is little driving reason for change.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @A123

    I think that 24 hours after the 700th reply might be a good compromise. Then, threads would end around the 800th reply.

    Replies: @A123

  491. @Coconuts
    @sudden death

    I thought about something like this at the time, but I think I was aware it would have been impossible for anyone to argue for keeping immigration from the EU but reducing it from outside countries. I remember there still being a really strict taboo about mentioning non-white immigration, whereas Polish immigrants could be publicly discussed because they are Europeans. Ironically, now with wokeness they have probably made race something people are more comfortable talking about.

    The other issue was the existence of two pro-Brexit campaigns, iirc there was a populist one run by Farage and what I remember as a small weird one run by Johnson and some globalist clowns. Farage seemed to be hinting at general reductions in all immigration, the clowns had some sort of global Britain idea but not too many details about the immigration side. (I didn't pay a lot of attention to them).

    Later a strange and drawn out combination of events led to the weird globalists ending up in power.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Later a strange and drawn out combination of events led to the weird globalists ending up in power.

    It’s not strange at all in a Globalized economy. They control the finance. Money rules.

  492. @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    An automatic new thread is good idea, but cut off after 300 seems way too low, as splintering discussion is the whole point and good feature of such open threads.

    So far thousand replies in general seems to be the point when it is starting technically lagging to load, so would offer to leave that limit in case of automated option.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    Thanks. You’ve changed my mind.

    The limit should be much larger than 300; but less than 1000.

    Would 24 hours after the 700th reply be a good compromise?

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    Would extend it into 48 hrs after 700th reply, would seem more convenient for majority here, who understandably are not checking every single day.

    Replies: @A123

  493. @A123
    @Not Raul


    Could you have an automatic new thread after 300 replies? It seems that the discussion starts to go off in too many tangents after 300 replies.
     
    The tangents are a desirable characteristic in Open Thread culture. Well.... At least in this OT.

    There is a function for "This Thread" as a button below. Thus, a slow rolling topic can be isolated if desired.

    I suspect that I have the least capable mobile device of anyone here. And, I can generally get to ~800 posts unless there are significant numbers of resource intensive tweets. The current cycle seems to work for the most active participants, so there is little driving reason for change.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Not Raul

    I think that 24 hours after the 700th reply might be a good compromise. Then, threads would end around the 800th reply.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Not Raul

    As designated self appointed "lemming" I simply ask in the dedicated venue. About 3/4 of the new threads are driven by my suggestions. For example:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5811039

    How much time and effort would be required to develop a code based solution?

    Your idea makes sense as a concept, but it has minimal or negative ROI. It is not going to get to the head of the line for extremely limited developer resources.

    PEACE 😇

     
    https://static.arcadespot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/lemmings.jpg

  494. @AP
    @Ron Unz


    Again, they’ve either all suddenly gone crazy together or they’re probably right.
     
    Or they are all disgruntled with the American Establishment and as a result want to take a contrarian view.

    Wasn’t MacGregor predicting a Ukrainian collapse last spring, then summer, then fall?

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Wokechoke

    It’s not just MacGregor though.

  495. @AP
    @Sher Singh


    Poland issues the most non EU work permits now
     
    Mostly for Ukrainians.

    I spent more than a week in Poland and saw maybe 2 non-European faces among locals.* There was a Filipina or Vietnamese waitress at a nice restaurant in Krakow, another such person with a group of friends. Otherwise zero, and zero outside of Krakow. I did not visit Warsaw though.

    * There was diversity among aid workers at the Polish-Ukrainian border and a black guy among the American military trainers in Reszow.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Honestly have to wonder if there’s much a US instructor could teach an Ukie about intensive combat at this point.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke

    They were training them on American weapons.

  496. @QCIC
    @songbird

    That is a neat little video. Most wholesome thing I've seen in a long time. The girl is cute, good looking but not striking. She has a bit of ambiguity which is what they were going for.

    Don't be a hater of long hair. I let my hair grow out late in life. A person's hair is only a slight clue, if any, to who and what they may or may not be. I think Zeihan is some sort of con man and I imagine his hairstyle is affected.

    I don't have an opinion on Sinead. She was attractive enough to pull it off, but it wasn't a killer look. I subconsciously assumed that was the point.

    Replies: @songbird

    Most wholesome thing I’ve seen in a long time.

    Honestly, did like the part where they do the glance across the room. IMO, it is almost Japanese in spirit (although probably not.) At any rate, a departure from standard Hollywood, which seems generally very extroverted and doesn’t do introverted very well.

    End of the video could kind of be seen as social training, to teach guys to give their friends a little space, when they have a thing for a girl. A little more stuff like that wouldn’t hurt the public, IMO.

    But one reason I think it is subversive is that they also had a video with two lesbos (dots and dashes). Not as good a sound, or as entertaining.

    BTW, I hope when the Tetris movie comes out, someone here will review it:

    [MORE]

  497. @S
    @Wokechoke


    Biden is a weird one. Biden is an English family name. his Irish ancestry is from his maternal grandmother. The rest is English.
     
    Yes, that was understood, Biden is an English name. The mother Jean seems to have been wholly Irish. The father, Joseph, about 80 percent English with some Irish.

    Not the best source, admittedly, ie Wiki:

    Jean [Mother] was of Irish descent, while Joseph Sr. [Father] had English, Irish, and French Huguenot ancestry.
     
    Having said that, Biden sees himself as Irish.

    From the Irish Post:

    Biden considers himself Irish.

    Asked if he would speak to the BBC, the Democrat replied: “The BBC? I’m Irish.”

    “James Joyce wrote, ‘When I die, Dublin will be written on my heart.’

    “Well, Northeast Pennsylvania will be written on my [Joe Biden's] heart. But Ireland will be written on my soul.'
     


    Unfortunately, for the Irish, at least some Irish [Biden family relatives] have 'embraced' Biden's Irishness...in Ireland:

    https://media.irishpost.co.uk/uploads/2020/11/08111202/GettyImages-1229507977.jpg

    And the United States:

    https://www.irishamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/IMG_0267-1.jpg


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/14/how-joe-biden-became-irish-511637

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/how-irish-is-joe-biden-the-us-presidents-ancestry-and-family-links-to-ireland-explored-205103

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57394351

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    Biden is definitely an English family name. He’s a spooky fake fuck.

  498. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/some-notes-on-the-heathen-lithuania-and-its-demise/

    That's fine we'll kill anyone who engages in cow slaughter, Just sit tight.
    Weird to take ethnic pride in a people your ancestors cast off & saw as heathens.

    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.

    I thought that oxen was the big ticket item to sacrifice in ancient Greece and Rome.

    (I have even wondered if such a thing may have influenced the end or attenuation of human sacrifice.)

    BTW, didn’t Sikhs eat oxen at the siege of Lohgrah?

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @songbird

    Exactly cow slaughter is nonsense.

    She's just saying it to insult the Gods.
    Acid will shut her mouth though

    🤷‍♀️⚔️

    Replies: @LatW

  499. @Wokechoke
    @AP

    Honestly have to wonder if there's much a US instructor could teach an Ukie about intensive combat at this point.

    Replies: @AP

    They were training them on American weapons.

  500. @Not Raul
    @A123

    I think that 24 hours after the 700th reply might be a good compromise. Then, threads would end around the 800th reply.

    Replies: @A123

    As designated self appointed “lemming” I simply ask in the dedicated venue. About 3/4 of the new threads are driven by my suggestions. For example:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5811039

    How much time and effort would be required to develop a code based solution?

    Your idea makes sense as a concept, but it has minimal or negative ROI. It is not going to get to the head of the line for extremely limited developer resources.

    PEACE 😇

     

  501. @Not Raul
    @sudden death

    Thanks. You’ve changed my mind.

    The limit should be much larger than 300; but less than 1000.

    Would 24 hours after the 700th reply be a good compromise?

    Replies: @sudden death

    Would extend it into 48 hrs after 700th reply, would seem more convenient for majority here, who understandably are not checking every single day.

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death


    who understandably are not checking every single day
     
    Whaaa..... I do not understand.

    PEACE 😇
  502. @songbird
    @Sher Singh


    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.
     
    I thought that oxen was the big ticket item to sacrifice in ancient Greece and Rome.

    (I have even wondered if such a thing may have influenced the end or attenuation of human sacrifice.)

    BTW, didn't Sikhs eat oxen at the siege of Lohgrah?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Exactly cow slaughter is nonsense.

    She’s just saying it to insult the Gods.
    Acid will shut her mouth though

    🤷‍♀️⚔️

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh

    Wow, I was going to write you a whole page about the Goddess Māra, the guardian of cattle in the Baltic religion. But now I see that it's absolutely not worth with the likes of you. Good information to have.

    You demonstrate that you are simply disgusting. This is just more confirmation that your people should never be allowed on our soil and you are a great example of why multi-culturalism is an awful idea (as was always known).

    Multi-culturalism for me, but not for thee - that's you. Not gonna happen, little brown fella.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  503. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/some-notes-on-the-heathen-lithuania-and-its-demise/

    That's fine we'll kill anyone who engages in cow slaughter, Just sit tight.
    Weird to take ethnic pride in a people your ancestors cast off & saw as heathens.

    Cows are sacred in all the ancient faiths of Europe.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    Animals held to be sacred don’t get domesticated, and vice-versa (see bears, lions). The only exception that comes to mind is cats, but of course they were never eaten. And isn’t India well outside the natural range of aurochs?
    Also the Greeks ate a large portion of their sacrifices.

    [MORE]

    Assimilation:

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Yevardian

    You're also a woman and need acid thrown in your face.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1075973244974289017/D5A8B53F241DA2F97707.jpg

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yevardian

    According to the guy who did the Yale U youtube New Testament class, temple sacrifice meat was the only time the average Greek or Roman was able to eat meat. If the local Big Man wasn't giving it away for his karma they couldn't afford it.

    He wrote a book about it. His Corinthians book. In Corinth there was church aggro between the rich people who could afford meat and the rest of them.

    Replies: @A123

  504. @Yevardian
    @Sher Singh

    Animals held to be sacred don't get domesticated, and vice-versa (see bears, lions). The only exception that comes to mind is cats, but of course they were never eaten. And isn't India well outside the natural range of aurochs?
    Also the Greeks ate a large portion of their sacrifices.


    Assimilation:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/40/83/d0408387e80071233fd21960544fdbb6.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

    You’re also a woman and need acid thrown in your face.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Sher Singh

    First fact is, the great majority of humans eat beef. Second fact is, most gods do not give a hoot about beef eating. End of story.

    Replies: @songbird, @Sher Singh

  505. How much smarter are oxen than cows?

    I was reading something, and it said they understand hand signals. Pretty gnarly, and different from my conception of a cow. I wonder if it is because they were mercilessly culled, more than cows, with the smartest one always preserved for mating purposes.

    BTW, I wonder how many animals are there where the male is noticeably smarter, due to differential killing. My theory is that with dogs, it was more often the females that were killed.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    How much smarter are oxen than cows?
     
    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.

    Here, starting at about 1:50, we see two oxen doing some righteous work hauling a wagon load of new found gold in an ancient Rome setting for our ever likable hero, Pullo.

    And, come to think of it, Pullo himself would seem to have had some readily apparent rather ox-like characteristics himself. :-D



    https://youtu.be/wXHcnQ29Bbs

    Replies: @songbird

  506. @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    Let’s learn from the Balts a region with a city sized population.
     
    You do realize that we weren't supposed to be around anymore given our location with our "fantastic" neighbors on both sides. So yea there's that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Gerard1234

    You do realize that we weren’t supposed to be around anymore given our location with our “fantastic” neighbors on both sides. So yea there’s that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.

    Are you insane or drunk you worthless POS?Dumber than plankton

    No nation has been more responsible for saving, creating and nurturing so many different countries – small and big – than Russia has you irrelevant idiot . Russia invented the fake “Ukrainian” nation, “culture” and ideology you retarded imbecile, we created the Bulgarian nation after defeating the Ottomans, created the Romanian state, created Moldova( retrospectively should never have taken their Black Sea coast), Kazakhstan, recreated Gruzia when it was basically made near extinct by Persian and Ottoman rules (as with 404, giving it a coastline and so important for them beach tourist industry that there is zero other way they would have got his geography if not for Russia) , created Finland, resurrected Armenian nation, recreated the loser-trash Polish state in Russian Empire when could easily have made it extinct as the Germanic side did, saved the Polish nation in GPW, made Litva viable by giving huge section of country to them you idiot.

    Latvia was never ever under threat to be some “absorbed state” or eliminated people or culture under Russian Empire or USSR. Latvia was only an “independent” (i.e American prostitute-nutjob) state because RUSSIANS in Latvia voted and supported it in 1991 – only to be immediately betrayed by these rats. NEVER forget that you parasitic worthless tramp. LOL – There is no even mildly interesting “survival” story here you idiot – a worthless, nothing failure of a microstate that’s so cuckolded a german jew runs the place. Would be even much worse if Russians were not in Riga.

    Every Latvian I have met, basically worships anything German there over the centuries – so even more ridiculous to play the “unfortunate with the neighbours” argument.

    P.S Why won’t the other worthless tramp “Sudden Death” explain Ignalina? Cowardly POS. LMAO

    • LOL: Sher Singh, Yevardian
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Gerard1234

    You're a tranny right?
    Just asking so I know to block you.

    , @LatW
    @Gerard1234

    Just go away. We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives. Once Mykola finishes you off, it's going to be a good bye forever. You will no longer have to worry about us. You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    Replies: @LatW, @Yevardian, @Gerard1234

  507. @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    Would extend it into 48 hrs after 700th reply, would seem more convenient for majority here, who understandably are not checking every single day.

    Replies: @A123

    who understandably are not checking every single day

    Whaaa….. I do not understand.

    PEACE 😇

  508. @Yevardian
    @Sher Singh

    Animals held to be sacred don't get domesticated, and vice-versa (see bears, lions). The only exception that comes to mind is cats, but of course they were never eaten. And isn't India well outside the natural range of aurochs?
    Also the Greeks ate a large portion of their sacrifices.


    Assimilation:
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/40/83/d0408387e80071233fd21960544fdbb6.jpg

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Emil Nikola Richard

    According to the guy who did the Yale U youtube New Testament class, temple sacrifice meat was the only time the average Greek or Roman was able to eat meat. If the local Big Man wasn’t giving it away for his karma they couldn’t afford it.

    He wrote a book about it. His Corinthians book. In Corinth there was church aggro between the rich people who could afford meat and the rest of them.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    According to the guy who did the Yale U youtube New Testament class, temple sacrifice meat was the only time the average Greek or Roman was able to eat meat.
     
    Do not let the fact that Yale was involved make you shun the idea.

    In Rome there were regular sacrifices that shared meat out to lower income citizens. Obtaining meat 2 or 3 times a week is a reasonable guess.

    Politicians pushed events that involved hearty, often fish based, higher protein meals to supporters. Also alcohol, of course.

    Rome was approaching UBI welfare culture before it collapsed.

    PEACE 😇

  509. Historical research on temple meat:

  510. @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    You do realize that we weren’t supposed to be around anymore given our location with our “fantastic” neighbors on both sides. So yea there’s that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.
     
    Are you insane or drunk you worthless POS?Dumber than plankton

    No nation has been more responsible for saving, creating and nurturing so many different countries - small and big - than Russia has you irrelevant idiot . Russia invented the fake "Ukrainian" nation, "culture" and ideology you retarded imbecile, we created the Bulgarian nation after defeating the Ottomans, created the Romanian state, created Moldova( retrospectively should never have taken their Black Sea coast), Kazakhstan, recreated Gruzia when it was basically made near extinct by Persian and Ottoman rules (as with 404, giving it a coastline and so important for them beach tourist industry that there is zero other way they would have got his geography if not for Russia) , created Finland, resurrected Armenian nation, recreated the loser-trash Polish state in Russian Empire when could easily have made it extinct as the Germanic side did, saved the Polish nation in GPW, made Litva viable by giving huge section of country to them you idiot.

    Latvia was never ever under threat to be some "absorbed state" or eliminated people or culture under Russian Empire or USSR. Latvia was only an "independent" (i.e American prostitute-nutjob) state because RUSSIANS in Latvia voted and supported it in 1991 - only to be immediately betrayed by these rats. NEVER forget that you parasitic worthless tramp. LOL - There is no even mildly interesting "survival" story here you idiot - a worthless, nothing failure of a microstate that's so cuckolded a german jew runs the place. Would be even much worse if Russians were not in Riga.

    Every Latvian I have met, basically worships anything German there over the centuries - so even more ridiculous to play the "unfortunate with the neighbours" argument.

    P.S Why won't the other worthless tramp "Sudden Death" explain Ignalina? Cowardly POS. LMAO

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    You’re a tranny right?
    Just asking so I know to block you.

  511. New right wing leaning Israeli government opened embassy in Kiev back again annd in practice seems bit more supportive of UA cause than the previous one:

    As part of the visit, Israel and Ukraine on Thursday agreed to step up cooperation in a shared struggle against Iran, Cohen said as he wrapped up the first visit to Kyiv by a senior Israeli official since Russia’s invasion last year.

    Speaking to reporters after a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskyy, Cohen was evasive. “We spoke about deepening cooperation with Ukraine against the Iranian threat in the international arena,” he said.

    It has provided humanitarian support to Ukraine, including a field hospital. Cohen said Thursday that Israel would provide $200 million in loan guarantees to build hospitals in Ukraine and reiterated an Israeli pledge to give Ukraine a sophisticated air-defense warning system.

    “Israel, as stated in the past, stands firmly in solidarity with the people of Ukraine and remains committed to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine,” Cohen said.

    https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/02/16/872215/

    Leaving out only direct words from foreign minister in quote for the sake of shorting, journo explanations in the text between in the link above.

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death

    Did you catch the byline on your propaganda story:


    By Ariel Kahana , Reuters and AP
     
    Separate the facts out from the opinion and the bulk of the contact is humanitarian aide

    Unlike other western countries, Israel has not imposed sanctions on Russia or Russian officials or provided Ukraine with weapons.

    It has provided humanitarian support to Ukraine, including a field hospital. Cohen said Thursday that Israel would provide $200 million in loan guarantees to build hospitals in Ukraine and reiterated an Israeli pledge to give Ukraine a sophisticated air-defense warning system.

    But he gave no specifics on when that system might be delivered, made no mention of Russia, and did not publicly respond to Ukrainian appeals for Israeli arms
     
    No sanctions. No military support. The idea of an air warning system is highly speculative.

    This is the stance on supporting Kiev regime aggression

    Cohen gave few details on what type of cooperation would take place. He also gave no indication that Israel had met a longstanding Ukrainian request to join the US and other Western allies in providing weapons to the Ukrainian military.
     
    Israel's most immediate problem is Iran in Syria. Working with Putin to displace Khamenei's terrorists is obviously more important than helping Anti-Semite Zelensky.

    Do not confuse PR with policy.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Greasy William
    @sudden death

    That's encouraging.

    I used to hate Bibi but as I've mellowed I've grown to believe his heart is in the right place. He's like a Jewish version of Richard Nixon.

  512. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yevardian

    According to the guy who did the Yale U youtube New Testament class, temple sacrifice meat was the only time the average Greek or Roman was able to eat meat. If the local Big Man wasn't giving it away for his karma they couldn't afford it.

    He wrote a book about it. His Corinthians book. In Corinth there was church aggro between the rich people who could afford meat and the rest of them.

    Replies: @A123

    According to the guy who did the Yale U youtube New Testament class, temple sacrifice meat was the only time the average Greek or Roman was able to eat meat.

    Do not let the fact that Yale was involved make you shun the idea.

    In Rome there were regular sacrifices that shared meat out to lower income citizens. Obtaining meat 2 or 3 times a week is a reasonable guess.

    Politicians pushed events that involved hearty, often fish based, higher protein meals to supporters. Also alcohol, of course.

    Rome was approaching UBI welfare culture before it collapsed.

    PEACE 😇

  513. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    There is an amazing book by Frances Stonor Saunders

    https://www.amazon.com/Cultural-Cold-War-World-Letters/dp/1565846648

    The CIA heavily subsidized modern art, literature, and music. And had a lot of editorial control. It was to show the masses in London and Paris and Berlin how great we were versus the obsolete Russian culture. They got to Hollywood very late in the game because they didn't think that was serious art in the early days.

    Also this book was vetted by the CIA. This is only the part they are willing to admit to.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Thanks. The embedded stuff didn’t come through for me. Was it The Cultural Cold War or Who Paid the Piper?

    I knew that there was intense involvement by the CIA, producing such things as the Animal Farm cartoon. (Possibly the CIA’s most least bad contribution to mankind?!) I’d always be interested in reading up on it more though, so I’ll put it on my list.

    I hardly think I’ll be shocked though. I’ve pretty much reached the point where I’d be legitimately shocked to learn that the government isn’t screwing around with something. That way I’m never disappointed!

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    There are some big names on the list. Peter Mathiessen, George Plimpton, J.D. Salinger, and on and on and on.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1224206.The_Cultural_Cold_War

    Mathiessen's books are really great and I was bummed to learn they were a spook production.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  514. @sudden death
    New right wing leaning Israeli government opened embassy in Kiev back again annd in practice seems bit more supportive of UA cause than the previous one:

    As part of the visit, Israel and Ukraine on Thursday agreed to step up cooperation in a shared struggle against Iran, Cohen said as he wrapped up the first visit to Kyiv by a senior Israeli official since Russia's invasion last year.

    Speaking to reporters after a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskyy, Cohen was evasive. "We spoke about deepening cooperation with Ukraine against the Iranian threat in the international arena," he said.

    It has provided humanitarian support to Ukraine, including a field hospital. Cohen said Thursday that Israel would provide $200 million in loan guarantees to build hospitals in Ukraine and reiterated an Israeli pledge to give Ukraine a sophisticated air-defense warning system.

    "Israel, as stated in the past, stands firmly in solidarity with the people of Ukraine and remains committed to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," Cohen said.
     

    https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/02/16/872215/

    Leaving out only direct words from foreign minister in quote for the sake of shorting, journo explanations in the text between in the link above.

    Replies: @A123, @Greasy William

    Did you catch the byline on your propaganda story:

    By Ariel Kahana , Reuters and AP

    Separate the facts out from the opinion and the bulk of the contact is humanitarian aide

    Unlike other western countries, Israel has not imposed sanctions on Russia or Russian officials or provided Ukraine with weapons.

    It has provided humanitarian support to Ukraine, including a field hospital. Cohen said Thursday that Israel would provide $200 million in loan guarantees to build hospitals in Ukraine and reiterated an Israeli pledge to give Ukraine a sophisticated air-defense warning system.

    But he gave no specifics on when that system might be delivered, made no mention of Russia, and did not publicly respond to Ukrainian appeals for Israeli arms

    No sanctions. No military support. The idea of an air warning system is highly speculative.

    This is the stance on supporting Kiev regime aggression

    Cohen gave few details on what type of cooperation would take place. He also gave no indication that Israel had met a longstanding Ukrainian request to join the US and other Western allies in providing weapons to the Ukrainian military.

    Israel’s most immediate problem is Iran in Syria. Working with Putin to displace Khamenei’s terrorists is obviously more important than helping Anti-Semite Zelensky.

    Do not confuse PR with policy.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Not Raul
  515. @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thanks. The embedded stuff didn't come through for me. Was it The Cultural Cold War or Who Paid the Piper?

    I knew that there was intense involvement by the CIA, producing such things as the Animal Farm cartoon. (Possibly the CIA's most least bad contribution to mankind?!) I'd always be interested in reading up on it more though, so I'll put it on my list.

    I hardly think I'll be shocked though. I've pretty much reached the point where I'd be legitimately shocked to learn that the government isn't screwing around with something. That way I'm never disappointed!

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    There are some big names on the list. Peter Mathiessen, George Plimpton, J.D. Salinger, and on and on and on.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1224206.The_Cultural_Cold_War

    Mathiessen’s books are really great and I was bummed to learn they were a spook production.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    For me, it doesn't diminish the power of a work to know that there may be spook somewhere back there helping it along.

    I think it's good to have a certain skepticism, knowing that such things do happen, and that such influences should be taken into account.

    Great work can still emerge and be fostered by such motives in some cases. The Soviet War and Peace is a fine case in point there. Sure, the Soviets had the ulterior motive of showing that Russian cinema could be more epic than Hollywood. That's an interesting facet to the back story, but it doesn't detract from the power and scope of the work.

    Naturally though, it doesn't usually work like this. The ideological pressures whether from the CIA or a profit maximizing studio, may be more likely to turn out masses of dreck.

  516. @Sher Singh
    @songbird

    Exactly cow slaughter is nonsense.

    She's just saying it to insult the Gods.
    Acid will shut her mouth though

    🤷‍♀️⚔️

    Replies: @LatW

    Wow, I was going to write you a whole page about the Goddess Māra, the guardian of cattle in the Baltic religion. But now I see that it’s absolutely not worth with the likes of you. Good information to have.

    You demonstrate that you are simply disgusting. This is just more confirmation that your people should never be allowed on our soil and you are a great example of why multi-culturalism is an awful idea (as was always known).

    Multi-culturalism for me, but not for thee – that’s you. Not gonna happen, little brown fella.

    • Agree: sudden death
    • Thanks: S
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    You don't worship her I don't give a fuck what kind of ethnic larp you got going on.
    Muh heritage when you ripped out the altars to that Goddess & eat beef.

    Women don't talk back to men - you likely were not a virgin at marriage.
    You're a whore, and your husband is going to hell.

    https://twitter.com/chandraseniya/status/1624742096853946368

    There's no let me tell you about my heritage while I undermine patriarchy
    & try to turn your daughters into courtesans.

    We're not stupid, what's disgusting is that your body is a public temple.

    :v:

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

  517. @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    You do realize that we weren’t supposed to be around anymore given our location with our “fantastic” neighbors on both sides. So yea there’s that.. maybe there is something to it. And, yes, there is a third way.
     
    Are you insane or drunk you worthless POS?Dumber than plankton

    No nation has been more responsible for saving, creating and nurturing so many different countries - small and big - than Russia has you irrelevant idiot . Russia invented the fake "Ukrainian" nation, "culture" and ideology you retarded imbecile, we created the Bulgarian nation after defeating the Ottomans, created the Romanian state, created Moldova( retrospectively should never have taken their Black Sea coast), Kazakhstan, recreated Gruzia when it was basically made near extinct by Persian and Ottoman rules (as with 404, giving it a coastline and so important for them beach tourist industry that there is zero other way they would have got his geography if not for Russia) , created Finland, resurrected Armenian nation, recreated the loser-trash Polish state in Russian Empire when could easily have made it extinct as the Germanic side did, saved the Polish nation in GPW, made Litva viable by giving huge section of country to them you idiot.

    Latvia was never ever under threat to be some "absorbed state" or eliminated people or culture under Russian Empire or USSR. Latvia was only an "independent" (i.e American prostitute-nutjob) state because RUSSIANS in Latvia voted and supported it in 1991 - only to be immediately betrayed by these rats. NEVER forget that you parasitic worthless tramp. LOL - There is no even mildly interesting "survival" story here you idiot - a worthless, nothing failure of a microstate that's so cuckolded a german jew runs the place. Would be even much worse if Russians were not in Riga.

    Every Latvian I have met, basically worships anything German there over the centuries - so even more ridiculous to play the "unfortunate with the neighbours" argument.

    P.S Why won't the other worthless tramp "Sudden Death" explain Ignalina? Cowardly POS. LMAO

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @LatW

    Just go away. We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives. Once Mykola finishes you off, it’s going to be a good bye forever. You will no longer have to worry about us. You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW

    Не забрати волю в нашого народу.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQl7vBqhmU

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @Yevardian
    @LatW

    I enjoy Gerard's expletive-laden posts, he's also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw


    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.
     
    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya, @QCIC

    , @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    Once Mykola finishes you off, it’s going to be a good bye forever
     
    I will admit that the threat of Oksana finishing off either us or the Europeans from syphilis transmission is big . Already half of our officials must have been targeted and seduced by Oksana. Its a race for both sides to resist this , but I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.

    As for "Myklola finshes you off" - LMAO - are you that much of a retarded POS?

    We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives.
     
    Your entire life on here seems to be looking at Russian, Soviet, Russian language cultue/modern videos and talking about them you retarded idiot. Don't give me the laughable "waste of time and out lives" BS. Russia is your life and your entire political "elite"'s existence you idiot - whoring themselves for American and western European attention and money with anti-Russian gestures is Latvia's modus operandi.

    BTW - although not as direct a role as with the several other countries listed, I forgot Russia's very important role in the creation of modern Greek state. Odessa and other Black Sea Malorossiya locations were important centres of Greek Independence movement meetings.........of course I think one of the Greek prostitute FM recently claimed "Ukrainians" were responsible for this, LOL.

    You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

     

    Russia's contribution to the world is unmatchable you imbecile.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  518. @LatW
    @Gerard1234

    Just go away. We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives. Once Mykola finishes you off, it's going to be a good bye forever. You will no longer have to worry about us. You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    Replies: @LatW, @Yevardian, @Gerard1234

    Не забрати волю в нашого народу.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @LatW

    The music (or the riff) is based on the Deep Purple song "Smoke on the Water".

    This is a great example of why Unz needs more commenters like Gerard1234, to call BS on this stuff. The video seems like standard war propaganda to entice young men to murder or die to protect their families and country. Like most modern war porn it is hardware-centric with bad ass toys for tough little boys. What they don't tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union and much of it is exclusively Russian (but kudos to the Ukrainian An-70 airplane). None of it would exist if Ukraine were not part of Russia's extended family.

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.

    Replies: @AP

  519. @sudden death
    New right wing leaning Israeli government opened embassy in Kiev back again annd in practice seems bit more supportive of UA cause than the previous one:

    As part of the visit, Israel and Ukraine on Thursday agreed to step up cooperation in a shared struggle against Iran, Cohen said as he wrapped up the first visit to Kyiv by a senior Israeli official since Russia's invasion last year.

    Speaking to reporters after a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskyy, Cohen was evasive. "We spoke about deepening cooperation with Ukraine against the Iranian threat in the international arena," he said.

    It has provided humanitarian support to Ukraine, including a field hospital. Cohen said Thursday that Israel would provide $200 million in loan guarantees to build hospitals in Ukraine and reiterated an Israeli pledge to give Ukraine a sophisticated air-defense warning system.

    "Israel, as stated in the past, stands firmly in solidarity with the people of Ukraine and remains committed to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," Cohen said.
     

    https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/02/16/872215/

    Leaving out only direct words from foreign minister in quote for the sake of shorting, journo explanations in the text between in the link above.

    Replies: @A123, @Greasy William

    That’s encouraging.

    I used to hate Bibi but as I’ve mellowed I’ve grown to believe his heart is in the right place. He’s like a Jewish version of Richard Nixon.

  520. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @Sher Singh

    Wow, I was going to write you a whole page about the Goddess Māra, the guardian of cattle in the Baltic religion. But now I see that it's absolutely not worth with the likes of you. Good information to have.

    You demonstrate that you are simply disgusting. This is just more confirmation that your people should never be allowed on our soil and you are a great example of why multi-culturalism is an awful idea (as was always known).

    Multi-culturalism for me, but not for thee - that's you. Not gonna happen, little brown fella.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    You don’t worship her I don’t give a fuck what kind of ethnic larp you got going on.
    Muh heritage when you ripped out the altars to that Goddess & eat beef.

    Women don’t talk back to men – you likely were not a virgin at marriage.
    You’re a whore, and your husband is going to hell.

    There’s no let me tell you about my heritage while I undermine patriarchy
    & try to turn your daughters into courtesans.

    We’re not stupid, what’s disgusting is that your body is a public temple.

    :v:

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    Women don’t talk back to men
     
    You are not a man to me but a weird little dough boy who is shorter than me.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  521. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    You don't worship her I don't give a fuck what kind of ethnic larp you got going on.
    Muh heritage when you ripped out the altars to that Goddess & eat beef.

    Women don't talk back to men - you likely were not a virgin at marriage.
    You're a whore, and your husband is going to hell.

    https://twitter.com/chandraseniya/status/1624742096853946368

    There's no let me tell you about my heritage while I undermine patriarchy
    & try to turn your daughters into courtesans.

    We're not stupid, what's disgusting is that your body is a public temple.

    :v:

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @LatW

    Women don’t talk back to men

    You are not a man to me but a weird little dough boy who is shorter than me.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    How can you tell lying on your back?

    Replies: @Greasy William

  522. @LatW
    @Sher Singh


    Women don’t talk back to men
     
    You are not a man to me but a weird little dough boy who is shorter than me.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    How can you tell lying on your back?

    • Disagree: LatW
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Sher Singh

    are you actually shorter than she is?

    Replies: @LatW

  523. @Not Raul
    @Yahya

    Harry’s real father?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02943/izzat-al-douri-ira_2943572b.jpg

    Replies: @sudden death

    Is that guy in background naturally michaeljacksoned or wears some face prosthetic after injury?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @sudden death


    Is that guy in background naturally michaeljacksoned or wears some face prosthetic after injury?
     
    It looks like Vitiligo.
  524. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    How can you tell lying on your back?

    Replies: @Greasy William

    are you actually shorter than she is?

    • Disagree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    are you actually shorter than she is?
     
    Yes. And do not believe his crap about not being able to go to Ukraine because he is brown and would be discriminated there. Nonsense! Ukraine is full of minority volunteers - there is the Georgian Legion, the Chechen Legion, the Battalion Turan (Kyrgyz), other Asians, as well as ethnic men from North America. He's a poseur. And a hypocrite who overshares about a private matter such as religion, and thinks everyone should bow down to his religion and identity, but will not respect others. Typical. Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens. A "brave" manlet online.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Greasy William, @Sher Singh

  525. @Greasy William
    @Sher Singh

    are you actually shorter than she is?

    Replies: @LatW

    are you actually shorter than she is?

    Yes. And do not believe his crap about not being able to go to Ukraine because he is brown and would be discriminated there. Nonsense! Ukraine is full of minority volunteers – there is the Georgian Legion, the Chechen Legion, the Battalion Turan (Kyrgyz), other Asians, as well as ethnic men from North America. He’s a poseur. And a hypocrite who overshares about a private matter such as religion, and thinks everyone should bow down to his religion and identity, but will not respect others. Typical. Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens. A “brave” manlet online.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    Lady, I wear a 3ft sword & dragged a lady across the aisle at the airport last week.
    Nothing happened.

    , @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens.
     
    You are Canadian? I thought you were Latvian. Why do you think he's shorter than you? Has he ever given his height?

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    If you think religion should be private, how do you think you'll react to a man in a Turban?

    https://dharmicreality.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/mapping-the-western-right-from-a-varnashrama-lens/

    You talk a lot about being white because you're at the bottom of its totem pole.
    I didn't really mention race, but you're a flaming nazi whose world revolves around it.

    I don't have to qualify myself to a balt & the West doesn't care for your racialism.
    Whiteness to you is just a begging bowl. You stand by whoever pays.

    You're not entitled to help.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  526. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    are you actually shorter than she is?
     
    Yes. And do not believe his crap about not being able to go to Ukraine because he is brown and would be discriminated there. Nonsense! Ukraine is full of minority volunteers - there is the Georgian Legion, the Chechen Legion, the Battalion Turan (Kyrgyz), other Asians, as well as ethnic men from North America. He's a poseur. And a hypocrite who overshares about a private matter such as religion, and thinks everyone should bow down to his religion and identity, but will not respect others. Typical. Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens. A "brave" manlet online.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Greasy William, @Sher Singh

    Lady, I wear a 3ft sword & dragged a lady across the aisle at the airport last week.
    Nothing happened.

  527. Re Russian strategy/tactics: Germany also attempted an attritional strategy on the Western Front in WWI. The German attack on Verdun was essentially a larger scale version of what Russia is currently doing at Bakhmut.

    It could be the case that the forces are too evenly matched in terms of men, material and fighting ability so that no maneuver warfare is possible. After all, Iraq was only able to break the stalemate with Iran due to vast superiority in technology and in C&C. We are not expecting Ukraine to ever achieve a similar level of superiority to Russia in either domain.

    So while I still hold that Russia is not capable of conquering any more large swaths of Ukrainian territory and that Ukraine and the West have the ability to fight on forever, I can see how it is possible that Russia could wear down Ukraine and its patrons to the point where Ukraine has to agree to a Finland 1941 style ceasefire. Such a result would be consistent with the RAND article and also with how Putin appears to be conducting the war.

    I guess it becomes a question of what does Russia want? Can the Russians and pro Russians here help with this question? Would Russia be willing to settle for current lines + the remainder of the Donbas and Ukraine waving its right to join NATO or the EU?

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William


    Would Russia be willing to settle for current lines + the remainder of the Donbas and Ukraine waving its right to join NATO or the EU?
     
    It’s amazing how naïve and misinformed most Westerners are. This was possible in the first 2-3 weeks after SMO started, when most Russians did not want the war with Ukraine. Likely that was Russian position in March on the talks with Ukraine that the US torpedoed.

    But that train has left the station long ago. Now Putin cannot afford this kind of settlement: most Russians won’t settle for anything short of unconditional capitulation of Kiev regime. If Putin agrees to something less than that, he’d be thrown out of Kremlin and replaced with someone a lot more combative and anti-Western. It’s the West’s doing: Ukraine had a chance to survive this confrontation at the beginning, and now it does not. Talk of unintended consequences.

    Replies: @sudden death

  528. @LatW
    @Greasy William


    are you actually shorter than she is?
     
    Yes. And do not believe his crap about not being able to go to Ukraine because he is brown and would be discriminated there. Nonsense! Ukraine is full of minority volunteers - there is the Georgian Legion, the Chechen Legion, the Battalion Turan (Kyrgyz), other Asians, as well as ethnic men from North America. He's a poseur. And a hypocrite who overshares about a private matter such as religion, and thinks everyone should bow down to his religion and identity, but will not respect others. Typical. Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens. A "brave" manlet online.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Greasy William, @Sher Singh

    Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens.

    You are Canadian? I thought you were Latvian. Why do you think he’s shorter than you? Has he ever given his height?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William


    You are Canadian?
     
    No, he is. I don't get why he thinks I would view him as a "man". He's a minority, their worldview doesn't apply to me and other Europeans. I don't get why he thinks we want to hear about it. Even using Ukraine to whine about whites..

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  529. @Greasy William
    @LatW


    Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens.
     
    You are Canadian? I thought you were Latvian. Why do you think he's shorter than you? Has he ever given his height?

    Replies: @LatW

    You are Canadian?

    No, he is. I don’t get why he thinks I would view him as a “man”. He’s a minority, their worldview doesn’t apply to me and other Europeans. I don’t get why he thinks we want to hear about it. Even using Ukraine to whine about whites..

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    The head of the Canadian Forces who set up the mission to Latvia & Ukraine is a Sikh.
    Obama was the president at the time.

    You brownosed Germans for a millenia & random brown-black folk have higher status.
    That hurts, that must really hurt.

    There's more Algerians in the EU than there are Balts on the earth.
    You don't matter, you're a minority.

    Another schizo female here to interrupt the boys club - will you come out as a tranny like Laxa??

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death

  530. • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Mikhail

    this was interesting

    Replies: @Mikhail

  531. @Yevardian
    @Greasy William


    Russia cannot fight large scale maneuver warfare and no longer even attempts to do so. Russia’s strategy is 100% attritional and that simply isn’t going to work. Every day, the Ukrainian army grows to be bigger and more effective. If this goes on for another 5 years, Russia is going to be facing 500,000 trained men, armed with modern Western weapons, at the front who are ready to conduct rapid, mobile combined arms operations against 300,000 war-weary Russian troops fighting to hold static defensive lines.
     
    Assuming unlimited Ukrainian manpower like that is a pretty hazardous assumption, at this stage nearly every adult Ukrainian male who wants to fight or contribute in some other way militarily is likely already doing so. Conscription from this point will have to become increasingly cooercive.

    The US fought in Vietnam to a standstill for a decade, until the deep domestic American unpopularity of the war forced 'Vietnamisation' and eventually total withdrawal from the war, and then and only then was the Tet Offensive successful.
    Combined North/South Vietnam in the late 70s had roughly 50 million people, Ukraine in 2023, after recent mass emigration to the EU, has perhaps half that population.
    Based on what we've seen already, I don't see any mass civil-unrest happening in Russia as a result of the war that could in any way significantly alter the Kremlin's policy. Actually, the stability of Putin's government even after the disgustingly bungled opening phases of the invasion surprised me, compare this to USSR's domestic problems arising from involvement in Afghanistan. Almost certainly Russian casualties are far higher after just a year's fighting in Ukraine, than the decade-long Soviet involvement in Afghanistan.
    So, based on this, I'm cautiously now leaning towards a rough stalemate in Ukraine, discounting any total wildcards like direct European military involvement, mass civil unrest, or Germans standing up for their own interests.


    I’m all for destroying the US and the EU, but Russia is not going to do it for us. We severely underestimated how much strength the dying US Empire still had left.
     
    Europe is screwed, but the US and the Anglosphere will be totally fine.

    @SuddenDeath


    however, Hersh at this age keeps saying several times in that video about EU having cold winter, so if the guy isn’t capable to factcheck or know what’s in the open, how on earth does make him more believable or capable investigating/checking on allegedly very secret stuff details he got from someone else?
     
    'Cold Winter' may have simply been expressing one with limited heating. But yes this European Winter was a record high, iirc.

    More patently, do you have any examples of Hersh being unambigiously mistaken/lying with regard to any particular claim?
    I'd be curious to see the opinion of a public figure totally uninvolved with this conflict, with nothing to lose, thinks about it. Say, someone like Finkelstein.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Cold Winter’ may have simply been expressing one with limited heating.

    The ‘cold’ is more of a symbol, few people look under the surface at what happens. The weather has impact on the actual consumption and prices – but it only causes spikes due to logistics when there are extremes.

    In Czechia and Slovakia through Jan 31 the energy (gas) consumption was down 23% compared to 2022. It is not the weather, but because of a timed shutdown of large industry. There was also a small drop in consumer consumption with more efficiency, turning off lights…

    The real impact of not getting an almost unlimited cheap Russian cheap energy is on prices and industry – large industrial consumers (metals, fertilizers, chemical…) either shut down or reduced production because their costs went up 50-200%. Some now don’t operate in winter period because the prices for gas are so much higher. This is permanent – same is true in Germany, Austria..

    The result is that prices for any material production are up and will continue rising – not in a shocking jump like last year (30-50% for food), but substantially. The retards in Brussels will boast that the ‘rate of inflation increase has dropped’ – just think about it mathematically, it is nonsense.

    The long-term consequences will be a shift in production away from Central-Eastern Europe to places w cheaper energy (Asia, US…). That is the “cold winter” – nobody will freeze, but more tourists and NGO chair-warmers paid for with fiat EU money and smaller material economy. The real consequences are 3-5 years from now, maybe polishing artillery for the eastern war will substitute for the lost economy. But the industrial economy as it was pre-2022 will change, and not for better…

    Thank you, Maidan fanatics, the ‘kill the Moskali’ and ‘we are Nato’ slogans will turn out to be costly.

  532. @Mikhail
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXGPi_Sq9_E

    Replies: @Greasy William

    this was interesting

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @Greasy William

    Another good one on among other things Miss Piggy:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXZ-0fDbrQQ&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ftheduran.com%2F&feature=emb_imp_woyt

  533. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @Greasy William


    are you actually shorter than she is?
     
    Yes. And do not believe his crap about not being able to go to Ukraine because he is brown and would be discriminated there. Nonsense! Ukraine is full of minority volunteers - there is the Georgian Legion, the Chechen Legion, the Battalion Turan (Kyrgyz), other Asians, as well as ethnic men from North America. He's a poseur. And a hypocrite who overshares about a private matter such as religion, and thinks everyone should bow down to his religion and identity, but will not respect others. Typical. Let him talk that way to white Canadian women in their face and see what happens. A "brave" manlet online.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @Greasy William, @Sher Singh

    If you think religion should be private, how do you think you’ll react to a man in a Turban?

    https://dharmicreality.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/mapping-the-western-right-from-a-varnashrama-lens/

    You talk a lot about being white because you’re at the bottom of its totem pole.
    I didn’t really mention race, but you’re a flaming nazi whose world revolves around it.

    I don’t have to qualify myself to a balt & the West doesn’t care for your racialism.
    Whiteness to you is just a begging bowl. You stand by whoever pays.

    You’re not entitled to help.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Sher Singh

    A lot of contemporary third world religionism and identity that pretends to be friendly to more right-wing Western iseologies is merely an excuse for empty macho posing and misogyny against white women because the third worlder feels inferior, emasculated and unworthy, and basically just envious/jealous.

    She Singh's obsession with trannies should make sense in this context, given that trannies are, at base, driven by jealousy/envy of women too.

    Some of the older and wiser people here implicitly know this and will try to defend his fragile masculinity, as if my harsh words might cause him to go and chemically castrate himself tomorrow, but they shouldn't encourage his empty machismo, because his maintaining of it is a heavy contribution to the burden that makes him so jealous of (white) women in the first place.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

  534. Sher Singh says:
    @LatW
    @Greasy William


    You are Canadian?
     
    No, he is. I don't get why he thinks I would view him as a "man". He's a minority, their worldview doesn't apply to me and other Europeans. I don't get why he thinks we want to hear about it. Even using Ukraine to whine about whites..

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    The head of the Canadian Forces who set up the mission to Latvia & Ukraine is a Sikh.
    Obama was the president at the time.

    You brownosed Germans for a millenia & random brown-black folk have higher status.
    That hurts, that must really hurt.

    There’s more Algerians in the EU than there are Balts on the earth.
    You don’t matter, you’re a minority.

    Another schizo female here to interrupt the boys club – will you come out as a tranny like Laxa??

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Sher Singh

    This has nothing to do with Sikhs. You show your duplicity by expecting tolerance but you give none to others. You are exactly the type of entitled religiously fanatical minority that we do not need.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Sher Singh

    , @sudden death
    @Sher Singh

    Minority Balts, whom don't matter, at least have their own non landlocked cosy states and in non earthquake, non tidal, non hurricane, shorelined green zones, it is satisfying enough tbh;)

    Could have been way worse overall, all things considered.

  535. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    The head of the Canadian Forces who set up the mission to Latvia & Ukraine is a Sikh.
    Obama was the president at the time.

    You brownosed Germans for a millenia & random brown-black folk have higher status.
    That hurts, that must really hurt.

    There's more Algerians in the EU than there are Balts on the earth.
    You don't matter, you're a minority.

    Another schizo female here to interrupt the boys club - will you come out as a tranny like Laxa??

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death

    This has nothing to do with Sikhs. You show your duplicity by expecting tolerance but you give none to others. You are exactly the type of entitled religiously fanatical minority that we do not need.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @LatW

    He may be just individual psycho teenage keyboard warrior though, we don't have much of wider experience with them, maybe there are and more normally behaving specimens?

    Replies: @LatW

    , @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    When do I expect or give tolerance?
    What a weird convo.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/962860873435713557/962862636360417390/unknown.png

    Keep your perversions like this religion you call human rights to yourself.

  536. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    The head of the Canadian Forces who set up the mission to Latvia & Ukraine is a Sikh.
    Obama was the president at the time.

    You brownosed Germans for a millenia & random brown-black folk have higher status.
    That hurts, that must really hurt.

    There's more Algerians in the EU than there are Balts on the earth.
    You don't matter, you're a minority.

    Another schizo female here to interrupt the boys club - will you come out as a tranny like Laxa??

    Replies: @LatW, @sudden death

    Minority Balts, whom don’t matter, at least have their own non landlocked cosy states and in non earthquake, non tidal, non hurricane, shorelined green zones, it is satisfying enough tbh;)

    Could have been way worse overall, all things considered.

  537. @LatW
    @Sher Singh

    This has nothing to do with Sikhs. You show your duplicity by expecting tolerance but you give none to others. You are exactly the type of entitled religiously fanatical minority that we do not need.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Sher Singh

    He may be just individual psycho teenage keyboard warrior though, we don’t have much of wider experience with them, maybe there are and more normally behaving specimens?

    • Replies: @LatW
    @sudden death

    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person. I think he is an exception. I doubt most of their men think of throwing acid into a woman's face when they get angry when someone doesn't agree with them. I had the impression they were ok, but I may have been wrong.

    Replies: @Yevardian

  538. @LatW
    @Sher Singh

    This has nothing to do with Sikhs. You show your duplicity by expecting tolerance but you give none to others. You are exactly the type of entitled religiously fanatical minority that we do not need.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Sher Singh

    When do I expect or give tolerance?
    What a weird convo.

    Keep your perversions like this religion you call human rights to yourself.

  539. @sudden death
    @LatW

    He may be just individual psycho teenage keyboard warrior though, we don't have much of wider experience with them, maybe there are and more normally behaving specimens?

    Replies: @LatW

    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person. I think he is an exception. I doubt most of their men think of throwing acid into a woman’s face when they get angry when someone doesn’t agree with them. I had the impression they were ok, but I may have been wrong.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @LatW

    Everyone with wordly experience knows Pajeets are the biggest women-haters on earth, they easily put any Anti-Israel Islamosauruses to shame.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  540. @LatW
    @sudden death

    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person. I think he is an exception. I doubt most of their men think of throwing acid into a woman's face when they get angry when someone doesn't agree with them. I had the impression they were ok, but I may have been wrong.

    Replies: @Yevardian

    Everyone with wordly experience knows Pajeets are the biggest women-haters on earth, they easily put any Anti-Israel Islamosauruses to shame.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yevardian


    Everyone with wordly experience knows Pajeets are the biggest women-haters on earth, they easily put any Anti-Israel Islamosauruses to shame.
     
    Why settle for one when you can combine? South Asian Muslims are unstoppable in their jealous hatred of women. The stories you hear in Britain from those women are awful. Getting beaten by their father for applying to university. Their brother repeatedly smashing their head against the table because he saw her talk to a boy of the wrong sect at school. Imagine being the father or the brother and doing this while your sister or daughter is screaming in pain and crying. The excesses of feminism may be annoying, but the excesses of whatever the hell this is are horrifying. Especially given the fact that no one does anything about it and it is all just accepted. Again, in Britain. The grooming gangs were awful, but should not exactly have been unpredictable when dealing with men mired in this culture
  541. @Sher Singh
    @LatW

    If you think religion should be private, how do you think you'll react to a man in a Turban?

    https://dharmicreality.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/mapping-the-western-right-from-a-varnashrama-lens/

    You talk a lot about being white because you're at the bottom of its totem pole.
    I didn't really mention race, but you're a flaming nazi whose world revolves around it.

    I don't have to qualify myself to a balt & the West doesn't care for your racialism.
    Whiteness to you is just a begging bowl. You stand by whoever pays.

    You're not entitled to help.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    A lot of contemporary third world religionism and identity that pretends to be friendly to more right-wing Western iseologies is merely an excuse for empty macho posing and misogyny against white women because the third worlder feels inferior, emasculated and unworthy, and basically just envious/jealous.

    She Singh’s obsession with trannies should make sense in this context, given that trannies are, at base, driven by jealousy/envy of women too.

    Some of the older and wiser people here implicitly know this and will try to defend his fragile masculinity, as if my harsh words might cause him to go and chemically castrate himself tomorrow, but they shouldn’t encourage his empty machismo, because his maintaining of it is a heavy contribution to the burden that makes him so jealous of (white) women in the first place.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Machismo on an internet board seems particularly pointless. Almost as much as arguments about who is taller!
    That was a funny exchange!

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    She Singh’s obsession with trannies
     
    When your head of state both looks like a tranny and makes an appearance on some TV show starring gays and trannies, then it is probably not an obsession.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  542. @LatW
    @Gerard1234

    Just go away. We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives. Once Mykola finishes you off, it's going to be a good bye forever. You will no longer have to worry about us. You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    Replies: @LatW, @Yevardian, @Gerard1234

    I enjoy Gerard’s expletive-laden posts, he’s also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw

    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.

    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yevardian

    Priyanka Chopra appreciation post:

    https://images.app.goo.gl/hLkApN25rA77kdwN6

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Yevardian

    I think India is the country where the gap between men and women is the greatest. Indian women are just so far superior to Indian men aesthetically that I sometimes can't believe they're related.

    , @Yahya
    @Yevardian


    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

     

    Yes, my Arab group in the US were once discussing ethnic group attractiveness and almost all agreed that Indians were the worst of the bunch. One of them said he would rather sleep with Africans than Indians (which I disagree with). I interjected that there are some very beautiful Indian girls at the right-edge of the distribution; but one of them said "but there are only like 5; the rest are [Arabic word for crap]". Which is fair enough tbh. Indian(-Americans) in American universities are selected for rich, upper caste; but the looks are still fairly mediocre. There are some nice ones; but they disappoint if you compare them with upper class Russians, Chinese and Persians; where basically every second girl can be described as good-looking.

    On the other hand, I can't say Indians are substantially different from everyone else; in that the attractive types are almost always a very small proportion of the population. Where Indians do differ is that the median phenotype is quite aesthetically displeasing; moreso than normal. On the other hand I would rank the beautiful (North) Indian women quite highly.

    @Laxa


    I think India is the country where the gap between men and women is the greatest. Indian women are just so far superior to Indian men aesthetically that I sometimes can’t believe they’re related.
     
    I knew a Bengali-American who was a gym enthusiast and reasonably socially adept; but he had trouble with girls. I was quite surprised since the East Asian kids I knew had no problems; even though i'd say the South Asians are more masculine on average.
    , @QCIC
    @Yevardian

    Yes, G1234 is a mandatory counterbalance to the excessive Slava Ukraine crowd.

  543. https://dharmicreality.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/mapping-the-western-right-from-a-varnashrama-lens/

    This is an interesting summary. It looks like a description of the North American dissident right rather than the Western nationalist right in general though.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Coconuts

    I just focus on the Shudra Right (Nazi) section cuz the rest is sort of incoherent.
    They're the only firmly Right section since they have nowhere else to go.

    There's a lot of overlap between trailer parks & gopnik types in their bombastic claims.
    A white man built the pyramids & Persepolis in the span of one night on shrooms you know!

    Not saying other civilizations don't have this type, but they're on a tighter leash.
    ---

    This is sort of why the Great Reset stuff makes imperial sense.
    If you're running a multi-national polity then of course PhD non-white > 10th grade bob.

    The idea that the state has its own interests beyond the ethny (Shudra) is obvious.
    However, good luck explaining this.

    >insert video of Bolsanaro supporters cheering on the military before it arrests them

    https://twitter.com/lndian_Bronson/status/1625846536730189824

    https://twitter.com/lndian_Bronson/status/1625845739585667073?s=20

    https://twitter.com/lndian_Bronson/status/1625922039620988929?s=20

  544. @Yevardian
    @LatW

    I enjoy Gerard's expletive-laden posts, he's also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw


    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.
     
    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya, @QCIC

    Priyanka Chopra appreciation post:

    https://images.app.goo.gl/hLkApN25rA77kdwN6

  545. @Yevardian
    @LatW

    I enjoy Gerard's expletive-laden posts, he's also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw


    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.
     
    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya, @QCIC

    I think India is the country where the gap between men and women is the greatest. Indian women are just so far superior to Indian men aesthetically that I sometimes can’t believe they’re related.

  546. @Yevardian
    @LatW

    Everyone with wordly experience knows Pajeets are the biggest women-haters on earth, they easily put any Anti-Israel Islamosauruses to shame.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Everyone with wordly experience knows Pajeets are the biggest women-haters on earth, they easily put any Anti-Israel Islamosauruses to shame.

    Why settle for one when you can combine? South Asian Muslims are unstoppable in their jealous hatred of women. The stories you hear in Britain from those women are awful. Getting beaten by their father for applying to university. Their brother repeatedly smashing their head against the table because he saw her talk to a boy of the wrong sect at school. Imagine being the father or the brother and doing this while your sister or daughter is screaming in pain and crying. The excesses of feminism may be annoying, but the excesses of whatever the hell this is are horrifying. Especially given the fact that no one does anything about it and it is all just accepted. Again, in Britain. The grooming gangs were awful, but should not exactly have been unpredictable when dealing with men mired in this culture

  547. @Yevardian
    @Ron Unz

    Funny, I just noticed the embed link for Amy Goodman's interview with Hersh now no longer works, as it's been 'Age Restricted for Sensitive or Upsetting Content'... Macgregor's video is still up though.

    I can only speculate this 'shadow-banning' of sorts happened in the instance of 'Democracy Now!' so quickly is due to an assumption it might sway large numbers of fence-sitters, whilst Ritter, MacGregor and the like have obviously been preaching solely to the converted for a long time.

    I'd be watching closely if/how the MSM reacts to this, if the 'total blackout' route is taken, my estimation it was a US-overseen operation jumps from 95% to 99%.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Leaves No Shadow

    Russia had lied to already close Nordstream 1 in order to force the opening of Nordstream 2 and, when that didn’t work, this happened:

    On 26 September 2022, Danish and Swedish authorities reported a number of explosions at pipes A and B of the Nord Stream 1 pipeline and pipe A of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, with the resulting damage causing significant gas leaks. The European Union considers the incident to be sabotage. On 3 October, Russia confirmed that pipe B of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline remains operable and that delivery of gas to Europe through Nord Stream 2 is possible.

  548. @Yevardian
    @LatW

    I enjoy Gerard's expletive-laden posts, he's also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw


    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.
     
    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya, @QCIC

    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Yes, my Arab group in the US were once discussing ethnic group attractiveness and almost all agreed that Indians were the worst of the bunch. One of them said he would rather sleep with Africans than Indians (which I disagree with). I interjected that there are some very beautiful Indian girls at the right-edge of the distribution; but one of them said “but there are only like 5; the rest are [Arabic word for crap]”. Which is fair enough tbh. Indian(-Americans) in American universities are selected for rich, upper caste; but the looks are still fairly mediocre. There are some nice ones; but they disappoint if you compare them with upper class Russians, Chinese and Persians; where basically every second girl can be described as good-looking.

    On the other hand, I can’t say Indians are substantially different from everyone else; in that the attractive types are almost always a very small proportion of the population. Where Indians do differ is that the median phenotype is quite aesthetically displeasing; moreso than normal. On the other hand I would rank the beautiful (North) Indian women quite highly.

    @Laxa

    I think India is the country where the gap between men and women is the greatest. Indian women are just so far superior to Indian men aesthetically that I sometimes can’t believe they’re related.

    I knew a Bengali-American who was a gym enthusiast and reasonably socially adept; but he had trouble with girls. I was quite surprised since the East Asian kids I knew had no problems; even though i’d say the South Asians are more masculine on average.

  549. @sudden death
    @Sher Singh


    Whites come to brown countries & try to ban honor killings and veils.
    This leads to a breakdown in the social fabric no dif than pornography in Idaho.

    They can’t really complain about the reverse racism and mass immigration now.
    Especially not East Euros who hold some of the most virulent racist views.
     

    This attempted shaming shit won't fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too. Holding so called "most virulent racist" views doesn't bother anybody there.

    Replies: @Sher Singh, @S

    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too.

    Not only that, shame and guilt have a proper place, ie to bring about correction (in the case of the European colonial powers the cessation of colonialism, which they did cease) and decidedly not to cynically and hatefully be used as a device to induce suicide in another, both individually, and, or, collectively.

    If the latter was the case, there wouldn’t be anyone left alive to speak of, either individually or collectively, as just about everyone has done wrong at some point in their lives.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @S


    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too.
     
    East Euros are selectively white cuz I was commenting on the argument with LatW.
    Ie the chauvanism to call our culture crazy, but not their Nazi WW2 tier one.

    Ie East Euros periodically destroy themselves in Industrial slaughter.
    --
    East Euros also definitely participate in liberalism as actors from the 2nd gen on.

    The underlying point is that East Euro beggar bowls are happy for gibs from Liberalism.
    Time comes to pay the cost & they're third world, non-white, Easterner, Dindu Nuffin etc.

    I'm just commenting on the lack of character or any higher order compulsions.
    No real philosophy or high culture came out of these lands & it shows in the people.
  550. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    All right, let's get it sorted.

    1) Out of Africa expansion of the modern (Cro Magnon) humans is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as "we are family"). Many Chinese, and some Russian anthropologists do not agree with this hypothesis. We are indeed family, but we might have branched out before the period of the postulated out of Africa expansion (ca. - 40K years).

    2) Evolution is a) mutations, b) selection through environment for reproductive fitness in a given environment. The novel alleles arise only through mutation or recombination. The rate of recombination depends on chromosome similarity and biophysical features of the chromosomal DNA. The mutation rate is highly variable accross the chromosomes depending on their biophysical (mainly the degree of coiling) and biochemical features (methylation, which is also important in epigenetics). However, the mutation rate for a given base pair locus is nearly constant in the absence of a mutagen (chemical compounds interfering with DNA replication, oxidative stress, ionizing radiation). Only mutagens increase the rate of production of novel alleles.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through rvolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    4) During the colonization of Eurasia by the Cro Magnon, they mate and they mated with the other branches of the human species: Neanderthal and Denisovan people. This has indeed resulted in an admixture of up to max 4% of modern human Eurasian genome being of Neanderthal origin and up to max 6% of some South Eastern Asian populations being of Denisovan ancestry. The claims made by the authors that "all beneficial alleles" in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit. Why ? Because a) an allele is only beneficial in a given environment b) most our alleles are already beneficial and have been selected by the evolution even prior to the encounter with the other ancient human subspecies c) saying that all alleles acquired from the other ancient humans are always more beneficial is a complete nonsense (see points a) and b).

    5) The claim that the introgression and recombination of the Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA has somewhat accelerated our evolution is incompatible with the nature of the evolution, see point 2). The ancient DNA inherited from the other human subspecies can provide some novel alleles and contribute to novel possibilities of recombination, it might also influence somewhat the coiling of the DNA around the loci where it integrated. But it is not a mutagen. Therefore, overall the rate of mutations has probably stayed constant in our genomes. This can be proven easily by comparing the mutation rate per nucleotide between the populations that recombined after introgression and those who never mated with the other archaic humans. Do you really think that the mutation rate of Sub-Saharan Afeicans is lower than the rate of mutations of Eurasian populations ? That would be utter racism !

    6) If the mutations rate did not increase, then how can we explain the drastic change of phenotype in modern humans ? a) Possibly the out of Africa expansion of Cro Magnon is bogus and the different phenotypes had a much longer type to arise in different regions of Eurasia. b) The extremely stringent selection by the Ice Age and the ensuing megafauna (around 90% mortality) has selected for different cognitive and physical traits. A selection that the African populations did not undergo.

    7) The Neolithic Revolution has been possible due to these novel aptitudes selected by the major population bottlenecks described in 6). It was not the cause but the consequence.

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

    1) Out of Africa exit of the modern (Cro Magnon) men is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”).

    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog “West Hunter” you’ll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    but we might have branched out before the period of out of Africa exit (ca. – 40K years).

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    The Out of Africa hypothesis is a model for the origin and dispersal of modern humans. The hypothesis contends that humans evolved in East Africa, dispersing to populate the rest of the world from c.70,000 years ago, replacing, rather than interbreeding with, the archaic hominins that were resident outside of Africa. Disagreements exist over the timing and routes of dispersals, however, the major contention, which brings the hypothesis into competition with the multiregional model, is whether modern humans interbred with the archaic populations that they eventually replaced, such as Neanderthals.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118584538.ieba0357#:~:text=The%20Out%20of%20Africa%20hypothesis,were%20resident%20outside%20of%20Africa.

    Some put it earlier at 100,000-130,000 years ago. David Reich places it at 50K years.

    Only mutagens increase the production of novel alleles.

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through revolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    C&H go into detail about how various alleles were introduced following the agricultural revolution; some of whom were selected for adapting to farming life. For example, the allelle SLC24A5 which regulates skin color was introduced 5,800 years ago; and proceeded to make a rapid sweep throughout Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent India because it allowed the skin to absorb a greater amount of UV rays and convert them to vitamins. The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake; and the forces of evolution proceeded to make up for this deficiency by lightening our skin color. There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.

    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.

    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal’s beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would’ve been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    The key property of an advantageous allele is that its frequency tends to increase with time, usually because it aids the bearer in some way. In a stable population, this means that the number of copies in the next generation is (on average) larger than the number in the current generation. If the average number of copies in the next generation were one and a quarter times larger than in the first, we would say that the allele had a selective advantage of 25 percent. As favorable alleles go, 25 percent is a very large advantage, although not unprecedented.

    J. B. S. Haldane, the great British geneticist (1892-1964), found a systematic way of adding up all these probabilities, and his method yields a surprisingly simple answer. If the allele confers an advantage s, its chance of going all the way is 2s. In a stable population, a single copy of an allele with a 10 percent fitness advantage has a 20 percent chance of eventually becoming universal.

    We’re not saying that the advent of agriculture somehow called forth mutations from the vasty deep that fitted people to the new order of things. Mutations are random, and as always, the overwhelming majority of them had neutral or negative effects. But more mutations occurred in large populations, some of them beneficial. Increased population size increased the supply of beneficial mutations just as buying many lottery tickets increases your chance of winning the prize.

    ———–

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    The book was intended for a popular audience; so they cut down on technicalities and jargon. Greg Cochran runs a blog called West Hunter: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ and if you email him he can respond to your objections in a more technical manner (though he is cranky, so be warned). Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran’s thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Yahya


    The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake
     
    Mind bogglingly inacurate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yahya

    That Kierkegaard post might be the funniest thing I have read all month. Thank you sir!

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog “West Hunter” you’ll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.
     
    I think that their personal convictions are unimportant. If they work inside ROA hypothesis framework, then their analysis would be skewed and biased by the normative interpretation of human evolution. This normative interpretation is inherently progressive.

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

     

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34230096/

    Those in Africa survived, others not so much. The Y haplogroups of the Eurasian genetic lineages are separated from the African ones by ~ 160k years. A lot of things could happen in 160k years. Moreover, a couple of African Y lineages are not easily connected to the common Y haplogroup tree, suggesting that African AMH have also had introgression from some paleo-anthropic population.

    Finally, it is currently unknown if Homo heidelbergensis (H. h.) arose in Africa or Eurasia.

    https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/the-history-of-our-tribe-hominini/chapter/homo-heidelbergensis/

    AMH might have evolved from H. h. everywhere H. h. was present, and then migrated back to the original land of our early hominid ancestors with most early Eurasian AMH populations being exterminated by the Toba megavolcano erruption and the African ones surviving this catastrophe.


    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.
     
    This is correct and impossible to argue against. But it doesn't mean that "evolution has accelerated". Mutation rate is rather constant.

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?
     
    I am thinking of the period post Neolithic Revolution and the start of the early agricultural lifestyle. Make it more or less Natufian Culture.

    I have never written that the phenotype has stopped changing, only that evolution did not accelerate as AP implied in his earlier comments. As I wrote: mutation rate is constant, but we have population bottlenecks and of course as both you and AP correctly pointed out, the increase in population with the agricultural lifestyle adoption. But I am more in favor of the catastrophic population bottlenecks and selection of branching phenotypes in different refugia, than selection of novel alleles through "civilized lifestyle" (whatever that might be).

    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.
     

    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a). I would favor the Megalithic Culture which might have carried more ancestry from the Doggerland hunter-gatherer populations that would have existed in the natural conditions of the Northern Sea / North Atlantic where a light-colored skin would have probably been most beneficial.

    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal’s beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would’ve been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:
     
    Yes their phrasing was a little bit strange. And Sub-Saharan Africans have also experienced introgression form archaic humans distinct from the Neanderthal and the Denisovan. Why would have Eurasian benefitted from their ancestral admixture while Afeicans wouldn't ?

    IMHO all this talk of introgression benefits is highly speculative.


    Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran’s thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/
     
    I am not a specialist in the field of evolutionary biology or population genetics. Just a hobbyist, I wouldn't dare publicly disputing the conclusions of the eminent luminaries of these scientific domains. And I also prefer being the anonymous rambling fool that I am.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  551. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Sher Singh

    A lot of contemporary third world religionism and identity that pretends to be friendly to more right-wing Western iseologies is merely an excuse for empty macho posing and misogyny against white women because the third worlder feels inferior, emasculated and unworthy, and basically just envious/jealous.

    She Singh's obsession with trannies should make sense in this context, given that trannies are, at base, driven by jealousy/envy of women too.

    Some of the older and wiser people here implicitly know this and will try to defend his fragile masculinity, as if my harsh words might cause him to go and chemically castrate himself tomorrow, but they shouldn't encourage his empty machismo, because his maintaining of it is a heavy contribution to the burden that makes him so jealous of (white) women in the first place.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    Machismo on an internet board seems particularly pointless. Almost as much as arguments about who is taller!
    That was a funny exchange!

    • LOL: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    Laxa finally admits it's a tranny though.
    A bunch of harridans & trannies + an armenian going off at me is w/e

    @yahya y'all can stay away from Indian women. Just fine with me.
    Anyway, being disgusted by trannies is quite normal.

    The sovoks (balts) are also quite annoying in that they're slow liberals.
    Look at us we're the real Nazis we hold no guilt complex.

    In reality, they're a slave class competing for wage positions with immigrants.
    Their racism is more like an attempt at unionization than an idea or political position.
    You also hear them squealing to hide it when economics are on the line.
    ---

    Shock when the kids do the white thing & adopt wokeness for career reasons is amusing.
    Being backward peasents though, they ook in pride rather than dwell on it.

    White is a transactory rather than perfunctory identity to them.
    I'm white so I deserve X position ahead of a more qualified/elite non-white or Westerner.

    However, the underlying hate for the West comes out quick with the I'm Balto/Slavic -
    you westerners are degenerate we're saving you from yourselves!
    ---

    Quite amusing to watch since religious dress means you're not coded racially.
    People are much more open & you can watch the antics unfold as a third party.

  552. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya

    All right, let's get it sorted.

    1) Out of Africa expansion of the modern (Cro Magnon) humans is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as "we are family"). Many Chinese, and some Russian anthropologists do not agree with this hypothesis. We are indeed family, but we might have branched out before the period of the postulated out of Africa expansion (ca. - 40K years).

    2) Evolution is a) mutations, b) selection through environment for reproductive fitness in a given environment. The novel alleles arise only through mutation or recombination. The rate of recombination depends on chromosome similarity and biophysical features of the chromosomal DNA. The mutation rate is highly variable accross the chromosomes depending on their biophysical (mainly the degree of coiling) and biochemical features (methylation, which is also important in epigenetics). However, the mutation rate for a given base pair locus is nearly constant in the absence of a mutagen (chemical compounds interfering with DNA replication, oxidative stress, ionizing radiation). Only mutagens increase the rate of production of novel alleles.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through rvolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

    4) During the colonization of Eurasia by the Cro Magnon, they mate and they mated with the other branches of the human species: Neanderthal and Denisovan people. This has indeed resulted in an admixture of up to max 4% of modern human Eurasian genome being of Neanderthal origin and up to max 6% of some South Eastern Asian populations being of Denisovan ancestry. The claims made by the authors that "all beneficial alleles" in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit. Why ? Because a) an allele is only beneficial in a given environment b) most our alleles are already beneficial and have been selected by the evolution even prior to the encounter with the other ancient human subspecies c) saying that all alleles acquired from the other ancient humans are always more beneficial is a complete nonsense (see points a) and b).

    5) The claim that the introgression and recombination of the Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA has somewhat accelerated our evolution is incompatible with the nature of the evolution, see point 2). The ancient DNA inherited from the other human subspecies can provide some novel alleles and contribute to novel possibilities of recombination, it might also influence somewhat the coiling of the DNA around the loci where it integrated. But it is not a mutagen. Therefore, overall the rate of mutations has probably stayed constant in our genomes. This can be proven easily by comparing the mutation rate per nucleotide between the populations that recombined after introgression and those who never mated with the other archaic humans. Do you really think that the mutation rate of Sub-Saharan Afeicans is lower than the rate of mutations of Eurasian populations ? That would be utter racism !

    6) If the mutations rate did not increase, then how can we explain the drastic change of phenotype in modern humans ? a) Possibly the out of Africa expansion of Cro Magnon is bogus and the different phenotypes had a much longer type to arise in different regions of Eurasia. b) The extremely stringent selection by the Ice Age and the ensuing megafauna (around 90% mortality) has selected for different cognitive and physical traits. A selection that the African populations did not undergo.

    7) The Neolithic Revolution has been possible due to these novel aptitudes selected by the major population bottlenecks described in 6). It was not the cause but the consequence.

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya, @Another Polish Perspective

    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.

    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!… in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Perhaps it is the same reason as why blacks are lauded.

    , @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.
     
    Safe expression of Europhilism?
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax

    Interestingly but tellingly, all Neanderthals there are gays (formally: bisexuals) who spent most of their time with other men.

    So, is homosexuality a Neanderthal trait..?

    Replies: @AP

    , @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.
     
    1.) Worship of the Other
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Little_Boy

    2.) Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.) That is like in the range of a 3rd-4th great grandparent.

    Subheading of ancestor worship: possible racialist differentiation from sub-Saharans. They did effect multiple genes and the brain, and many argue increased brain size.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

  553. Another outright fabulism in Hersh’s story discovered:

    [MORE]

  554. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Machismo on an internet board seems particularly pointless. Almost as much as arguments about who is taller!
    That was a funny exchange!

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Laxa finally admits it’s a tranny though.
    A bunch of harridans & trannies + an armenian going off at me is w/e

    @yahya y’all can stay away from Indian women. Just fine with me.
    Anyway, being disgusted by trannies is quite normal.

    The sovoks (balts) are also quite annoying in that they’re slow liberals.
    Look at us we’re the real Nazis we hold no guilt complex.

    In reality, they’re a slave class competing for wage positions with immigrants.
    Their racism is more like an attempt at unionization than an idea or political position.
    You also hear them squealing to hide it when economics are on the line.

    Shock when the kids do the white thing & adopt wokeness for career reasons is amusing.
    Being backward peasents though, they ook in pride rather than dwell on it.

    White is a transactory rather than perfunctory identity to them.
    I’m white so I deserve X position ahead of a more qualified/elite non-white or Westerner.

    However, the underlying hate for the West comes out quick with the I’m Balto/Slavic –
    you westerners are degenerate we’re saving you from yourselves!

    Quite amusing to watch since religious dress means you’re not coded racially.
    People are much more open & you can watch the antics unfold as a third party.

  555. Sher Singh says:
    @S
    @sudden death


    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too.
     
    Not only that, shame and guilt have a proper place, ie to bring about correction (in the case of the European colonial powers the cessation of colonialism, which they did cease) and decidedly not to cynically and hatefully be used as a device to induce suicide in another, both individually, and, or, collectively.

    If the latter was the case, there wouldn't be anyone left alive to speak of, either individually or collectively, as just about everyone has done wrong at some point in their lives.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    This attempted shaming shit won’t fly especially with East Euros, who have nothing to do with white coming to brown countries, thus no any white guilt complexes too.

    East Euros are selectively white cuz I was commenting on the argument with LatW.
    Ie the chauvanism to call our culture crazy, but not their Nazi WW2 tier one.

    Ie East Euros periodically destroy themselves in Industrial slaughter.

    East Euros also definitely participate in liberalism as actors from the 2nd gen on.

    The underlying point is that East Euro beggar bowls are happy for gibs from Liberalism.
    Time comes to pay the cost & they’re third world, non-white, Easterner, Dindu Nuffin etc.

    I’m just commenting on the lack of character or any higher order compulsions.
    No real philosophy or high culture came out of these lands & it shows in the people.

  556. @Yevardian
    @LatW

    I enjoy Gerard's expletive-laden posts, he's also the last pro-SMO-Russian here of any substance. Anybody who can simultaneously piss off Karlin, the Sikh, the pro-Ukrainian posters is alright in my book. Notice that mild-mannered Dmitri gets the joke.

    @Latw


    I have only known one, it was a woman and a very nice person.
     
    Btw, anyone else notice that Indian women tend to be feast or famine, either definitely quite ugly or (small percentage) strikingly attractive? Whereas East-Asians gather more to the mean. A consequence of the caste system perhaps. Perhaps Greasy could comment.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Leaves No Shadow, @Yahya, @QCIC

    Yes, G1234 is a mandatory counterbalance to the excessive Slava Ukraine crowd.

  557. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!... in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Replies: @Sean, @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    Perhaps it is the same reason as why blacks are lauded.

  558. Sher Singh says:
    @Coconuts

    https://dharmicreality.wordpress.com/2022/05/15/mapping-the-western-right-from-a-varnashrama-lens/
     
    This is an interesting summary. It looks like a description of the North American dissident right rather than the Western nationalist right in general though.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    I just focus on the Shudra Right (Nazi) section cuz the rest is sort of incoherent.
    They’re the only firmly Right section since they have nowhere else to go.

    There’s a lot of overlap between trailer parks & gopnik types in their bombastic claims.
    A white man built the pyramids & Persepolis in the span of one night on shrooms you know!

    Not saying other civilizations don’t have this type, but they’re on a tighter leash.

    This is sort of why the Great Reset stuff makes imperial sense.
    If you’re running a multi-national polity then of course PhD non-white > 10th grade bob.

    The idea that the state has its own interests beyond the ethny (Shudra) is obvious.
    However, good luck explaining this.

    >insert video of Bolsanaro supporters cheering on the military before it arrests them

    [MORE]

  559. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    1) Out of Africa exit of the modern (Cro Magnon) men is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”).
     
    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog "West Hunter" you'll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    but we might have branched out before the period of out of Africa exit (ca. – 40K years).

     

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    The Out of Africa hypothesis is a model for the origin and dispersal of modern humans. The hypothesis contends that humans evolved in East Africa, dispersing to populate the rest of the world from c.70,000 years ago, replacing, rather than interbreeding with, the archaic hominins that were resident outside of Africa. Disagreements exist over the timing and routes of dispersals, however, the major contention, which brings the hypothesis into competition with the multiregional model, is whether modern humans interbred with the archaic populations that they eventually replaced, such as Neanderthals.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118584538.ieba0357#:~:text=The%20Out%20of%20Africa%20hypothesis,were%20resident%20outside%20of%20Africa.

     

    Some put it earlier at 100,000-130,000 years ago. David Reich places it at 50K years.

    Only mutagens increase the production of novel alleles.

     

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through revolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

     

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    C&H go into detail about how various alleles were introduced following the agricultural revolution; some of whom were selected for adapting to farming life. For example, the allelle SLC24A5 which regulates skin color was introduced 5,800 years ago; and proceeded to make a rapid sweep throughout Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent India because it allowed the skin to absorb a greater amount of UV rays and convert them to vitamins. The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake; and the forces of evolution proceeded to make up for this deficiency by lightening our skin color. There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal's beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would've been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    The key property of an advantageous allele is that its frequency tends to increase with time, usually because it aids the bearer in some way. In a stable population, this means that the number of copies in the next generation is (on average) larger than the number in the current generation. If the average number of copies in the next generation were one and a quarter times larger than in the first, we would say that the allele had a selective advantage of 25 percent. As favorable alleles go, 25 percent is a very large advantage, although not unprecedented.

    J. B. S. Haldane, the great British geneticist (1892-1964), found a systematic way of adding up all these probabilities, and his method yields a surprisingly simple answer. If the allele confers an advantage s, its chance of going all the way is 2s. In a stable population, a single copy of an allele with a 10 percent fitness advantage has a 20 percent chance of eventually becoming universal.

    We’re not saying that the advent of agriculture somehow called forth mutations from the vasty deep that fitted people to the new order of things. Mutations are random, and as always, the overwhelming majority of them had neutral or negative effects. But more mutations occurred in large populations, some of them beneficial. Increased population size increased the supply of beneficial mutations just as buying many lottery tickets increases your chance of winning the prize.
     

    -----------

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

     

    The book was intended for a popular audience; so they cut down on technicalities and jargon. Greg Cochran runs a blog called West Hunter: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ and if you email him he can respond to your objections in a more technical manner (though he is cranky, so be warned). Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran's thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    Replies: @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Ivashka the fool

    The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake

    Mind bogglingly inacurate.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Sean

    At first I thought it must be a typo for Vitamin C, but then I read the context and it clearly meant vitamin D. Vitamin D...from fruit? Elaboration please, Yayha!

    Replies: @Yahya

  560. @LatW
    @LatW

    Не забрати волю в нашого народу.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQl7vBqhmU

    Replies: @QCIC

    The music (or the riff) is based on the Deep Purple song “Smoke on the Water”.

    This is a great example of why Unz needs more commenters like Gerard1234, to call BS on this stuff. The video seems like standard war propaganda to entice young men to murder or die to protect their families and country. Like most modern war porn it is hardware-centric with bad ass toys for tough little boys. What they don’t tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union and much of it is exclusively Russian (but kudos to the Ukrainian An-70 airplane). None of it would exist if Ukraine were not part of Russia’s extended family.

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.

    • Replies: @AP
    @QCIC


    What they don’t tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union
     
    As if Ukraine made no contribution to the development and production of that hardware?

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.
     
    If someone breaks into your house and you shoot him does that mean you’ve murdered the invader on someone’s behalf?

    Replies: @QCIC

  561. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    1) Out of Africa exit of the modern (Cro Magnon) men is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”).
     
    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog "West Hunter" you'll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    but we might have branched out before the period of out of Africa exit (ca. – 40K years).

     

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    The Out of Africa hypothesis is a model for the origin and dispersal of modern humans. The hypothesis contends that humans evolved in East Africa, dispersing to populate the rest of the world from c.70,000 years ago, replacing, rather than interbreeding with, the archaic hominins that were resident outside of Africa. Disagreements exist over the timing and routes of dispersals, however, the major contention, which brings the hypothesis into competition with the multiregional model, is whether modern humans interbred with the archaic populations that they eventually replaced, such as Neanderthals.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118584538.ieba0357#:~:text=The%20Out%20of%20Africa%20hypothesis,were%20resident%20outside%20of%20Africa.

     

    Some put it earlier at 100,000-130,000 years ago. David Reich places it at 50K years.

    Only mutagens increase the production of novel alleles.

     

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through revolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

     

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    C&H go into detail about how various alleles were introduced following the agricultural revolution; some of whom were selected for adapting to farming life. For example, the allelle SLC24A5 which regulates skin color was introduced 5,800 years ago; and proceeded to make a rapid sweep throughout Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent India because it allowed the skin to absorb a greater amount of UV rays and convert them to vitamins. The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake; and the forces of evolution proceeded to make up for this deficiency by lightening our skin color. There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal's beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would've been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    The key property of an advantageous allele is that its frequency tends to increase with time, usually because it aids the bearer in some way. In a stable population, this means that the number of copies in the next generation is (on average) larger than the number in the current generation. If the average number of copies in the next generation were one and a quarter times larger than in the first, we would say that the allele had a selective advantage of 25 percent. As favorable alleles go, 25 percent is a very large advantage, although not unprecedented.

    J. B. S. Haldane, the great British geneticist (1892-1964), found a systematic way of adding up all these probabilities, and his method yields a surprisingly simple answer. If the allele confers an advantage s, its chance of going all the way is 2s. In a stable population, a single copy of an allele with a 10 percent fitness advantage has a 20 percent chance of eventually becoming universal.

    We’re not saying that the advent of agriculture somehow called forth mutations from the vasty deep that fitted people to the new order of things. Mutations are random, and as always, the overwhelming majority of them had neutral or negative effects. But more mutations occurred in large populations, some of them beneficial. Increased population size increased the supply of beneficial mutations just as buying many lottery tickets increases your chance of winning the prize.
     

    -----------

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

     

    The book was intended for a popular audience; so they cut down on technicalities and jargon. Greg Cochran runs a blog called West Hunter: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ and if you email him he can respond to your objections in a more technical manner (though he is cranky, so be warned). Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran's thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    Replies: @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Ivashka the fool

    That Kierkegaard post might be the funniest thing I have read all month. Thank you sir!

  562. @QCIC
    @LatW

    The music (or the riff) is based on the Deep Purple song "Smoke on the Water".

    This is a great example of why Unz needs more commenters like Gerard1234, to call BS on this stuff. The video seems like standard war propaganda to entice young men to murder or die to protect their families and country. Like most modern war porn it is hardware-centric with bad ass toys for tough little boys. What they don't tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union and much of it is exclusively Russian (but kudos to the Ukrainian An-70 airplane). None of it would exist if Ukraine were not part of Russia's extended family.

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.

    Replies: @AP

    What they don’t tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union

    As if Ukraine made no contribution to the development and production of that hardware?

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.

    If someone breaks into your house and you shoot him does that mean you’ve murdered the invader on someone’s behalf?

    • Agree: Mr. Hack, sudden death
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @AP

    I am aware of many impressive Ukrainian contributions, which is why I acknowledged the An-70 aircraft. More accurately, these were contributions by Soviet citizens living in the Ukrainian region. Nonetheless the implication of the imagery is totally unbalanced in my opinion.

    +++

    Hah.

    Ukraine shares a "house" with Russia. The Ukrainians start killing Russians on the Ukrainian side of the front porch. Does Russia have the right to stop it?

    When Ukraine is unrepentant and escalates with the help of the new neighbor down the street, is it surprising when the Russians also escalate and reclaim the entire house as it had been in the past? Is Russia mistaken for simply recognizing the neighbor is a manipulative party who wants to create problems for Ukraine so they can foreclose on the shared house and bulldoze it to the ground?

  563. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!... in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Replies: @Sean, @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Safe expression of Europhilism?

  564. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!... in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Replies: @Sean, @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax

    Interestingly but tellingly, all Neanderthals there are gays (formally: bisexuals) who spent most of their time with other men.

    So, is homosexuality a Neanderthal trait..?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you seem to be very focused on that issue.

    That series of books seems to be very stupid btw, judging by the wiki description.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  565. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Barbarossa

    There are some big names on the list. Peter Mathiessen, George Plimpton, J.D. Salinger, and on and on and on.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1224206.The_Cultural_Cold_War

    Mathiessen's books are really great and I was bummed to learn they were a spook production.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    For me, it doesn’t diminish the power of a work to know that there may be spook somewhere back there helping it along.

    I think it’s good to have a certain skepticism, knowing that such things do happen, and that such influences should be taken into account.

    Great work can still emerge and be fostered by such motives in some cases. The Soviet War and Peace is a fine case in point there. Sure, the Soviets had the ulterior motive of showing that Russian cinema could be more epic than Hollywood. That’s an interesting facet to the back story, but it doesn’t detract from the power and scope of the work.

    Naturally though, it doesn’t usually work like this. The ideological pressures whether from the CIA or a profit maximizing studio, may be more likely to turn out masses of dreck.

  566. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Sher Singh

    A lot of contemporary third world religionism and identity that pretends to be friendly to more right-wing Western iseologies is merely an excuse for empty macho posing and misogyny against white women because the third worlder feels inferior, emasculated and unworthy, and basically just envious/jealous.

    She Singh's obsession with trannies should make sense in this context, given that trannies are, at base, driven by jealousy/envy of women too.

    Some of the older and wiser people here implicitly know this and will try to defend his fragile masculinity, as if my harsh words might cause him to go and chemically castrate himself tomorrow, but they shouldn't encourage his empty machismo, because his maintaining of it is a heavy contribution to the burden that makes him so jealous of (white) women in the first place.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @songbird

    She Singh’s obsession with trannies

    When your head of state both looks like a tranny and makes an appearance on some TV show starring gays and trannies, then it is probably not an obsession.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Who is this?

    Replies: @songbird

  567. @Sean
    @Yahya


    The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake
     
    Mind bogglingly inacurate.

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    At first I thought it must be a typo for Vitamin C, but then I read the context and it clearly meant vitamin D. Vitamin D…from fruit? Elaboration please, Yayha!

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Correction: should be “meat” rather than “fruit”.

    Replies: @Sean

  568. @Barbarossa
    @Sean

    At first I thought it must be a typo for Vitamin C, but then I read the context and it clearly meant vitamin D. Vitamin D...from fruit? Elaboration please, Yayha!

    Replies: @Yahya

    Correction: should be “meat” rather than “fruit”.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Yahya

    You are still wrong. And so is this fellow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY

    Vitamin D is limited by multiple mechanisms in the body and skin of white people.

    White skin evolved in the Bronze age invasions, and it was an adaptation by women to the murderously patriarchal Yamanaya culture of the Beaker folk who took over so much of northern Europe. White skin inhibits aggression and stimulates care and provisioning. Like a baby's skin.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Sean

  569. https://wordandway.org/2022/09/27/sacrifices-on-an-altar-of-christian-nationalism/
    “This can only happen if we live with faith in our hearts because faith destroys fear. Faith gives the possibility of mutual forgiveness. Faith strengthens relationships between people that can really transform and is transforming these relationships into brotherly, cordial, and kind.” When national and Christian identities are conflated, to die for the nation is to die for God. To refuse to die for the nation is to deny God

    As Mearsheimer has said, the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won’t quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin’s theatre thermonuclear threats. Speaking it won’t work.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Sean


    the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won’t quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin’s theatre thermonuclear threats.
     
    And you buy this nonsense? "fight like hell"?? I get more of the impression that most of the Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, because they've been drafted, conscripted, signed up to minimize jail time (felons in prison with long sentences), etc. wondering why they're in Ukraine and praying to get out alive. Ukrainians are much more motivated, because they're in their own home, fighting for their families safety, their cities, their freedom and autonomy. Why have so many of their major campaigns failed so miserably, if they're so well motivated (Kyiv, Kherson, Kharkiv)?

    Replies: @Sean, @Johnny Rico

  570. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    Agree. There is something like a tacit cult of Neanderthals in the modern science/culture, of looking for everything Neanderthal, of focusing on this, and of valuing it as positive (Neanderthals made music!... in background the question: are Neanderthal genes responsible for musical capabilities?) and skimming over bad sides of those early human beings (prone to violence, cannibalism) , whereas homo sapiens is present as rather bad, a doubtful success, a cancer on Earth, in fact.

    There was even a sci-fi novel (I read a fragment and a review once) which contrasted Homo Sapiens civilization with an advanced world inhabited solely by Neanderthals, the world much better of course.

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    Replies: @Sean, @AP, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.

    1.) Worship of the Other
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Little_Boy

    2.) Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.) That is like in the range of a 3rd-4th great grandparent.

    Subheading of ancestor worship: possible racialist differentiation from sub-Saharans. They did effect multiple genes and the brain, and many argue increased brain size.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship above all. Unless of course the worshippers primarily and wilfully identify themselves with Neanderthals, for which I see no logical reason (but maybe some religious ones).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    , @AP
    @songbird


    Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.
     
    Almost all of Europeans’ Neanderthal admixture comes from early encounters in the Middle East, not from later encounters in Europe. The first Homo Sapiens who came Europe and mixed with the Neanderthals there were almost completely replaced by later waves of arrivals. This extinct population may have been 5% or more Neanderthal. Their Homo Sapien source population was more closely related to modern Asians than to modern Europeans IIRC.

    So the last of the Neanderthals, in Europe, have left almost no traces.

    Replies: @songbird

  571. @Sher Singh
    @Yevardian

    You're also a woman and need acid thrown in your face.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1075973244974289017/D5A8B53F241DA2F97707.jpg

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    First fact is, the great majority of humans eat beef. Second fact is, most gods do not give a hoot about beef eating. End of story.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN

    India is actually a massive exporter of beef. But not from cows.

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @Sher Singh
    @AnonfromTN

    Hello, you were the remaining Sovok who hadn't answered.

    Final fact is, the people lynching you definitely do care and Gods would rather watch than save you.

    End of story.

    Hohol

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  572. @AnonfromTN
    @Sher Singh

    First fact is, the great majority of humans eat beef. Second fact is, most gods do not give a hoot about beef eating. End of story.

    Replies: @songbird, @Sher Singh

    India is actually a massive exporter of beef. But not from cows.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @songbird

    What does this mean?

    Beef from what, then?

    Replies: @songbird

  573. I was thinking about the idea that the decline of the Roman empire needed some kind of explanation, and it occurred to me – why? People eventually grow bored with things.

    The energy needed to sustain a complex civilization is immense, not to mention an empire, and after a certain point people will start asking themselves – why? Isn’t this rather boring?

    In fact, probably the only thing that kept the Roman empire going for as long as it did was the continuous importation of fresh foreigners who hadn’t yet had a chance to get bored with the whole project.

    Likewise, I suspect Anglo America basically got bored with the whole imperial America project around the time of Carter. Carter was openly talking about how Americans need to accept decline and a reduced standard of living, and this probably represented the mood of Anglo America. Anglo Americans were also part of a larger people – Western Europeans – who had been the most powerful in the world for about five hundred years, and whose thinkers and artists were expressing a growing boredom with and disinterest in the whole imperial project at least since the late nineteenth century.

    I think the only reason America continued to be a dynamic imperial power was because people from a group who had not been the world’s most powerful for the past five hundred years, and so had not had a chance to grow bored with power yet – Jews – took over from an increasingly apathetic Anglo elite (or at least, injected some resolve into the elite class, as I think Jews are a significant part of the elite but don’t dominate it, in my view – a heretical opinion here, I know, lol).

    A few decades later, the importation of fresh foreigners into America from groups who had not yet had a chance to grow bored with power – Asians of various stripes but really, elite elements from every culture in the world, Eastern Europe, Russia, the Middle East, Latin America, etc – added more momentum to the American imperial project and it’s ability to remain a dynamic society with a strong will to power.

    An entirely Anglo America would have resembled Europe – having grown bored with power, and apathetic towards ruling, it would be a much poorer and less powerful place. Except, without a powerful America sustaining the post-war order, both Europe and America would be poorer, and the world would be much more dangerous. Asia would likely be torn by periodic conflict, and strongman rule would probably be the norm, severely reducing it’s economic dynamism.

    Of course, none of this expresses an opinion on whether imperial projects are good or bad things. I’m sure everyone here knows my opinion lol.

    Reading through George Orwell’s essays and letters, he documents the growing apathy and disinterest among the British upper class towards keeping the Empire – not to mention, the intellectual and artistic class gradually turning fiercely against it.

    But it’s clear the British lost their empire out of boredom and disinterest in keeping it, as they gained it not through some grand strategic plan but simply by accident as opportunity presented itself.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    The British boys who rolled over everyone else for a few hundred years knew exactly what they were doing/ they just didn’t know it would work. Nor did they know for sure it would have worked so well.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  574. @Greasy William
    Re Russian strategy/tactics: Germany also attempted an attritional strategy on the Western Front in WWI. The German attack on Verdun was essentially a larger scale version of what Russia is currently doing at Bakhmut.

    It could be the case that the forces are too evenly matched in terms of men, material and fighting ability so that no maneuver warfare is possible. After all, Iraq was only able to break the stalemate with Iran due to vast superiority in technology and in C&C. We are not expecting Ukraine to ever achieve a similar level of superiority to Russia in either domain.

    So while I still hold that Russia is not capable of conquering any more large swaths of Ukrainian territory and that Ukraine and the West have the ability to fight on forever, I can see how it is possible that Russia could wear down Ukraine and its patrons to the point where Ukraine has to agree to a Finland 1941 style ceasefire. Such a result would be consistent with the RAND article and also with how Putin appears to be conducting the war.

    I guess it becomes a question of what does Russia want? Can the Russians and pro Russians here help with this question? Would Russia be willing to settle for current lines + the remainder of the Donbas and Ukraine waving its right to join NATO or the EU?

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Would Russia be willing to settle for current lines + the remainder of the Donbas and Ukraine waving its right to join NATO or the EU?

    It’s amazing how naïve and misinformed most Westerners are. This was possible in the first 2-3 weeks after SMO started, when most Russians did not want the war with Ukraine. Likely that was Russian position in March on the talks with Ukraine that the US torpedoed.

    But that train has left the station long ago. Now Putin cannot afford this kind of settlement: most Russians won’t settle for anything short of unconditional capitulation of Kiev regime. If Putin agrees to something less than that, he’d be thrown out of Kremlin and replaced with someone a lot more combative and anti-Western. It’s the West’s doing: Ukraine had a chance to survive this confrontation at the beginning, and now it does not. Talk of unintended consequences.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  575. @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.
     
    1.) Worship of the Other
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Little_Boy

    2.) Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.) That is like in the range of a 3rd-4th great grandparent.

    Subheading of ancestor worship: possible racialist differentiation from sub-Saharans. They did effect multiple genes and the brain, and many argue increased brain size.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship above all. Unless of course the worshippers primarily and wilfully identify themselves with Neanderthals, for which I see no logical reason (but maybe some religious ones).

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I once read an article which proposed genetic reconstruction of Neanderthals (not in their 100% entirety but as much as it is possible). This maybe be the perspective for trying to recover every Neanderthal gene they could.

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty, so it would be a rather ironic (in a sad way) if they became champions of whites.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I recently asked Ivashka how exactly he goes about commemorating the memory of his his Bell-Beaker and Corded Ware ancestors, and he never did reply? If it's just by studying about these ancient ancestors, I'm all for it, if its anything more, I'd be interested in finding out? Within the Orthodox tradition, we offer a prayer book filed with the names of our immediate relatives, friends and ancestors (I've seen as many as 3 pages filled up, I'm starting my second page) that is recited and prayed over during divine liturgy every Sunday. Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals too, wow that's dedication?

    , @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship.
     
    IMO, ancestor worship always favors a rooted connection to land. So, while it is still interesting to think about the arrival of Cro-Magnons in Europe, and the challenges they faced, our fascination with them is not proportional to the DNA. It is not something based on logic.

    Early bronze age population replacement in Ireland was like 92-100%. It is a full on statistical possibility that they killed everyone. But still I somehow weirdly hope that I have a connection beyond that, however microscopic to neolithic farmers, and one even beyond that to the mesolithic inhabitants. Wouldn't ruin my day to find out I didn't, but the default is to hope for some ancient connection to the land.

    IMO, there is a perfect analogy with many early stock Americans, who hope for an Indian connection. That is not wokeness (Elizabeth Warrens, aside), but just an inbuilt desire to be connected to the land. And even American blacks have it, and hope for Indian connections. Even though Indians were extreme savages by modern standards.

    Personally, I honestly think it is pretty cool to consider that I may have had ancestors in Europe for hundreds of thousands of years. A Europe populated with beasts that were of an almost mythical nature, such as cave bears and wooly mammoths which they hunted. (my desire for these magnificent beasts to return might partly be related to this co-inhabitance, even though I am interested in bring back the megafauna of other places)

    Ancestor worship is something metaphysical. What matters is not so much the percentage, but the connection and the setting - the frame of reference, to imagine.

    The dumbasses who immediately shout LARPer are just involved in a superficial status game, and not thinking spiritually, and don't understand that you can be connected to a thing, and feel the connection, without being the thing itself, or feeling you are the thing itself, or pretending to be it.

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty
     
    They had a big range. Some were probably swarthy and some as pale as Irishmen. They had mutations in MC1R. Besides, which they had hundreds of thousands of years to adapt to the environment. For goodness sake, Denisovans on the Tibetan plateau developed some really neat tricks that modern humans never had a chance to develop themselves. Andean adaptations are quite crappy in comparison.
  576. Related to this, it’s an interesting question what factors affect a groups will to power.

    I think it was Spengler, or one of those early twentieth century pessimist historians, who suggested that fresh “barbarian” tribes injected vigor and dynamism into civilization – and the world has basically run out of those. For him (or whoever I’m confusing him with lol), will to power was seemingly a genetic inheritance that gets progressively selected against in civilized conditions.

    An interesting theory, but one that the real world refutes too easily to accept. It’s a reflection of the materialism of the times, too.

    The Chinese, for instance, had the longest continuous complex civilization of any nation the world, and when Europeans first met them, seemed rather apathetic and bored with power. Yet the events of the twentieth century clearly awakened their will to power. Indians, too, are today manifesting a rather vigorous will to power. Yet in the 19tj century, the East was the proverbial land of the “Lotus Eaters”.

    Jews, too, have a long continuous tradition of complex civilization stretching back thousands of years, yet from the nineteenth century onwards, seemed to have awakened a rather dynamic will to power, just as many of the nations they were living among were losing theirs. There are signs today, that in the natural course of events, Jewish will to power is somewhat waning (as it eventually must).

    So clearly, a will to power can be “awakened” and “go to sleep” for centuries – affected by what set of complex factors, it isn’t entirely clear, although we can probably single out a few significant ones.

    One thing seems clear to me – in the natural course of events, the will to power will awake again in Europeans, because nothing stays the same forever, although likely not in the same form as it was in the past (which, admittedly, was rather too destructive).

    And groups with a strong will to power today, will likely “go to sleep” for a while – because in the end, power is boring 🙂

  577. Apparently, Ukrainian deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are “adequate, law-abiding and patriotic“.

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”. It’s “leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don’t care about your fate”. Same situation as some Islamists storming a disco in Paris and the French authorities asking the Christians among them to leave the premises but Muslims can stay. Or the UK authorities asking the “patriotic” population of Edinburgh to leave the city before they storm it to quell a Scottish independentist uprising.

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel


    It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”.
     
    I like your call the best, for it gets to the point and is all inclusive. However, give her some credit, Vereshchuk didn't go as far as to say:

    'All indequates, law-breaking and fifth-columnists may stay behind"

    Woke up with a short fuse this morning, did you? There's a war going on, is their really a good reason to coddle the aggressors?

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    European lefties never realize
     
    It does not matter what European lefties realize. They’ve got their marching orders, and they follow them (even to their own ruin).
    , @German_reader
    @Mikel


    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?
     
    Good illustration of this:

    https://twitter.com/GoeringEckardt/status/1621787854530551810

    Leading German Green Katrin Göring-Eckardt meeting and hugging Odessa's governor Maxim Marchenko.
    Marchenko was a commander of the Aidar battalion from 2015-2017...even the (presumably sanitized) Wikipedia page mentions this unit was notorious for far right (up to Neo-Nazism) views and has been accused of committing war crimes in Donbass:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidar_Battalion
    Saw some Ukraine-skeptic leftie on Twitter quip that Marchenko is probably especially happy a German named Göring is coming to visit.

    Göring-Eckardt, like many other Greens (many of whom think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukraine should re-conquer Crimea and Donbass), is now heavily pushing the "Putler wants to destroy Ukraine's cultural identity" line (others of course speak openly of "genocide"). She's also a leading advocate of mass immigration to Germany and has just recently managed to secure state funding (several million Euros a year) for German NGOs picking up Africans and other migrants in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe (her partner Thies Gundlach, a Protestant theologian, is directly involved in organizing these "sea rescue" efforts).

    You're of course right that by any reasonable standards Ukrainian nationalism, with its cult of WW2 fascists and mass murderers, its repressive cultural policies and its many unhinged and megalomaniacal representatives (some of whom are even fantasizing about "tribunals" for Western critics of their country) should be utterly incompatible with "European values". However, I doubt the progressives will notice the contradiction any time soon. Or maybe there isn't even much of a contradiction, it's not like fanaticism and manichaean self-righteousness are in any way alien to the progressive world view.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yevardian, @LondonBob

    , @AP
    @Mikel


    Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are “adequate, law-abiding and patriotic“.

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”. It’s “leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don’t care about your fate”
     
    It’s simpler than that. A small percentage of the population in these places are pro-Russian and await Russian “liberation.” These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation. The rest are strongly encouraged to leave, otherwise they may face detention and other unpleasantness at the hands of the “liberators.”

    Replies: @Mikel

  578. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship above all. Unless of course the worshippers primarily and wilfully identify themselves with Neanderthals, for which I see no logical reason (but maybe some religious ones).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I once read an article which proposed genetic reconstruction of Neanderthals (not in their 100% entirety but as much as it is possible). This maybe be the perspective for trying to recover every Neanderthal gene they could.

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty, so it would be a rather ironic (in a sad way) if they became champions of whites.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Another Polish Perspective


    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty, so it would be a rather ironic (in a sad way) if they became champions of whites.
     
    Hasn't stopped Steppe Aryans.
  579. @Mikel
    Apparently, Ukrainian deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are "adequate, law-abiding and patriotic".

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It's not "leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you". It's "leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don't care about your fate". Same situation as some Islamists storming a disco in Paris and the French authorities asking the Christians among them to leave the premises but Muslims can stay. Or the UK authorities asking the "patriotic" population of Edinburgh to leave the city before they storm it to quell a Scottish independentist uprising.

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don't have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @German_reader, @AP

    It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”.

    I like your call the best, for it gets to the point and is all inclusive. However, give her some credit, Vereshchuk didn’t go as far as to say:

    ‘All indequates, law-breaking and fifth-columnists may stay behind”

    Woke up with a short fuse this morning, did you? There’s a war going on, is their really a good reason to coddle the aggressors?

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Mr. Hack


    There’s a war going on, is their really a good reason to coddle the aggressors?
     
    What a strange way of interpreting my comment.

    From time to time some Western media touch briefly on reports of Ukrainians killing Russian POWs and such incidents. To be honest, I can't muster much indignation at this type of events. If you are a soldier invading another country you shouldn't count too much on the forces opposing you being too humanitarian. By contrast, I find this type of statements by the authorities (on both sides) much more discouraging because they reveal why it's all ended up in a full-on war to begin with.

    I remember a Ukrainian general some years ago, when the Donbas war had already entered a protracted phase, saying to the media that Ukraine needed to decide if it wanted to just recover the lost territories or to win the hearts of its inhabitants as well. He thought that Ukraine was then only doing the former and apparently he didn't think that was a good long-term strategy. Events have proven him right. With many more people in Kiev thinking like him there might not have been an aggressor in a war like this to coddle or denounce.

  580. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship above all. Unless of course the worshippers primarily and wilfully identify themselves with Neanderthals, for which I see no logical reason (but maybe some religious ones).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    I recently asked Ivashka how exactly he goes about commemorating the memory of his his Bell-Beaker and Corded Ware ancestors, and he never did reply? If it’s just by studying about these ancient ancestors, I’m all for it, if its anything more, I’d be interested in finding out? Within the Orthodox tradition, we offer a prayer book filed with the names of our immediate relatives, friends and ancestors (I’ve seen as many as 3 pages filled up, I’m starting my second page) that is recited and prayed over during divine liturgy every Sunday. Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals too, wow that’s dedication?

  581. @Mikel
    Apparently, Ukrainian deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are "adequate, law-abiding and patriotic".

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It's not "leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you". It's "leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don't care about your fate". Same situation as some Islamists storming a disco in Paris and the French authorities asking the Christians among them to leave the premises but Muslims can stay. Or the UK authorities asking the "patriotic" population of Edinburgh to leave the city before they storm it to quell a Scottish independentist uprising.

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don't have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @German_reader, @AP

    European lefties never realize

    It does not matter what European lefties realize. They’ve got their marching orders, and they follow them (even to their own ruin).

  582. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax

    Interestingly but tellingly, all Neanderthals there are gays (formally: bisexuals) who spent most of their time with other men.

    So, is homosexuality a Neanderthal trait..?

    Replies: @AP

    Lol, you seem to be very focused on that issue.

    That series of books seems to be very stupid btw, judging by the wiki description.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    I am focused on what is. If something repeats again and again, it should be in focus. But are you suggesting we ignore LGBQT front?

    And Bible notices the problem too. But I remember you protesting quite vehemently against the idea of gay Kossacks of Kitowicz - you should be as focused as me if you protested sincerely.


    That series of books seems to be very stupid btw, judging by the wiki description.
     
    Long time ago I read a fragment of the first book in sci-fi magazine and it was competent sci-fi, neither good nor bad.
  583. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship above all. Unless of course the worshippers primarily and wilfully identify themselves with Neanderthals, for which I see no logical reason (but maybe some religious ones).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack, @songbird

    Ancestor worship is not enough, since in such a case it should have been a Cro-Magnon worship.

    IMO, ancestor worship always favors a rooted connection to land. So, while it is still interesting to think about the arrival of Cro-Magnons in Europe, and the challenges they faced, our fascination with them is not proportional to the DNA. It is not something based on logic.

    [MORE]

    Early bronze age population replacement in Ireland was like 92-100%. It is a full on statistical possibility that they killed everyone. But still I somehow weirdly hope that I have a connection beyond that, however microscopic to neolithic farmers, and one even beyond that to the mesolithic inhabitants. Wouldn’t ruin my day to find out I didn’t, but the default is to hope for some ancient connection to the land.

    IMO, there is a perfect analogy with many early stock Americans, who hope for an Indian connection. That is not wokeness (Elizabeth Warrens, aside), but just an inbuilt desire to be connected to the land. And even American blacks have it, and hope for Indian connections. Even though Indians were extreme savages by modern standards.

    Personally, I honestly think it is pretty cool to consider that I may have had ancestors in Europe for hundreds of thousands of years. A Europe populated with beasts that were of an almost mythical nature, such as cave bears and wooly mammoths which they hunted. (my desire for these magnificent beasts to return might partly be related to this co-inhabitance, even though I am interested in bring back the megafauna of other places)

    Ancestor worship is something metaphysical. What matters is not so much the percentage, but the connection and the setting – the frame of reference, to imagine.

    The dumbasses who immediately shout LARPer are just involved in a superficial status game, and not thinking spiritually, and don’t understand that you can be connected to a thing, and feel the connection, without being the thing itself, or feeling you are the thing itself, or pretending to be it.

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty

    They had a big range. Some were probably swarthy and some as pale as Irishmen. They had mutations in MC1R. Besides, which they had hundreds of thousands of years to adapt to the environment. For goodness sake, Denisovans on the Tibetan plateau developed some really neat tricks that modern humans never had a chance to develop themselves. Andean adaptations are quite crappy in comparison.

  584. German_reader says:
    @Mikel
    Apparently, Ukrainian deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are "adequate, law-abiding and patriotic".

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It's not "leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you". It's "leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don't care about your fate". Same situation as some Islamists storming a disco in Paris and the French authorities asking the Christians among them to leave the premises but Muslims can stay. Or the UK authorities asking the "patriotic" population of Edinburgh to leave the city before they storm it to quell a Scottish independentist uprising.

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don't have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @German_reader, @AP

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    Good illustration of this:

    [MORE]

    Leading German Green Katrin Göring-Eckardt meeting and hugging Odessa’s governor Maxim Marchenko.
    Marchenko was a commander of the Aidar battalion from 2015-2017…even the (presumably sanitized) Wikipedia page mentions this unit was notorious for far right (up to Neo-Nazism) views and has been accused of committing war crimes in Donbass:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidar_Battalion
    Saw some Ukraine-skeptic leftie on Twitter quip that Marchenko is probably especially happy a German named Göring is coming to visit.

    Göring-Eckardt, like many other Greens (many of whom think it’s perfectly reasonable that Ukraine should re-conquer Crimea and Donbass), is now heavily pushing the “Putler wants to destroy Ukraine’s cultural identity” line (others of course speak openly of “genocide”). She’s also a leading advocate of mass immigration to Germany and has just recently managed to secure state funding (several million Euros a year) for German NGOs picking up Africans and other migrants in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe (her partner Thies Gundlach, a Protestant theologian, is directly involved in organizing these “sea rescue” efforts).

    You’re of course right that by any reasonable standards Ukrainian nationalism, with its cult of WW2 fascists and mass murderers, its repressive cultural policies and its many unhinged and megalomaniacal representatives (some of whom are even fantasizing about “tribunals” for Western critics of their country) should be utterly incompatible with “European values”. However, I doubt the progressives will notice the contradiction any time soon. Or maybe there isn’t even much of a contradiction, it’s not like fanaticism and manichaean self-righteousness are in any way alien to the progressive world view.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @German_reader


    should be utterly incompatible with “European values”
     
    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting "another Hitler" to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take "another Poland"(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.

    ofc, very very figuratively speaking.

    P.S. Nice to see you back, should a lot of fireworks follow, if stay for longer, we have active Polish conservative here now too, lol

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    Welcome back to the cesspit. I have an excuse to write a short summary of last year's reading now.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @LondonBob
    @German_reader

    Greens and lefties in general are and always have been warmongers, their metric is simply who/whom as shown by the current conflict.

  585. @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    However, the bigger question is why this pro-Neanderthal trend does exist.
     
    1.) Worship of the Other
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_Little_Boy

    2.) Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.) That is like in the range of a 3rd-4th great grandparent.

    Subheading of ancestor worship: possible racialist differentiation from sub-Saharans. They did effect multiple genes and the brain, and many argue increased brain size.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

    Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.

    Almost all of Europeans’ Neanderthal admixture comes from early encounters in the Middle East, not from later encounters in Europe. The first Homo Sapiens who came Europe and mixed with the Neanderthals there were almost completely replaced by later waves of arrivals. This extinct population may have been 5% or more Neanderthal. Their Homo Sapien source population was more closely related to modern Asians than to modern Europeans IIRC.

    So the last of the Neanderthals, in Europe, have left almost no traces.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AP


    So the last of the Neanderthals, in Europe, have left almost no traces.
     
    Already referenced the Middle East.

    But "almost no traces" is not the same as "no traces." Look at the model of European population movements in the past 10,000 years. It contains many fluxes. The hunter gatherers in the North were not eliminated, but even had a sort of resurgence, and they were up against farmers and herders. (Neanderthals and their admixes weren't.) And you are also ignoring how the range was connected. We are not talking about isolated islands.

    Zero connection is basically a mathematical impossibility, and it could very well be that our existing models are flawed. There's been pretty big revisions in the past two years or so in places like Japan.

    Anyway, see my above post, referencing the metaphysical and eschewing percentages.
  586. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you seem to be very focused on that issue.

    That series of books seems to be very stupid btw, judging by the wiki description.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I am focused on what is. If something repeats again and again, it should be in focus. But are you suggesting we ignore LGBQT front?

    And Bible notices the problem too. But I remember you protesting quite vehemently against the idea of gay Kossacks of Kitowicz – you should be as focused as me if you protested sincerely.

    That series of books seems to be very stupid btw, judging by the wiki description.

    Long time ago I read a fragment of the first book in sci-fi magazine and it was competent sci-fi, neither good nor bad.

  587. @AnonfromTN
    @Greasy William


    Would Russia be willing to settle for current lines + the remainder of the Donbas and Ukraine waving its right to join NATO or the EU?
     
    It’s amazing how naïve and misinformed most Westerners are. This was possible in the first 2-3 weeks after SMO started, when most Russians did not want the war with Ukraine. Likely that was Russian position in March on the talks with Ukraine that the US torpedoed.

    But that train has left the station long ago. Now Putin cannot afford this kind of settlement: most Russians won’t settle for anything short of unconditional capitulation of Kiev regime. If Putin agrees to something less than that, he’d be thrown out of Kremlin and replaced with someone a lot more combative and anti-Western. It’s the West’s doing: Ukraine had a chance to survive this confrontation at the beginning, and now it does not. Talk of unintended consequences.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation;)

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation
     
    All in due time. For now Ukies are moving fresh meat to Artemovsk meat grinder, even though the mayor office has already run away, they evacuated official archives, and Ukie official advised all “patriotic” Ukie civilians to leave Artemovsk. From Kiev regime POV the great majority of residents of Ugledar, as well as all other Donbass areas, are “unpatriotic”: some wish Ukies gone, most wish Ukies dead.

    Replies: @sudden death

  588. @Mikel
    Apparently, Ukrainian deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are "adequate, law-abiding and patriotic".

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It's not "leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you". It's "leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don't care about your fate". Same situation as some Islamists storming a disco in Paris and the French authorities asking the Christians among them to leave the premises but Muslims can stay. Or the UK authorities asking the "patriotic" population of Edinburgh to leave the city before they storm it to quell a Scottish independentist uprising.

    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don't have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @AnonfromTN, @German_reader, @AP

    Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are “adequate, law-abiding and patriotic“.

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”. It’s “leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don’t care about your fate”

    It’s simpler than that. A small percentage of the population in these places are pro-Russian and await Russian “liberation.” These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation. The rest are strongly encouraged to leave, otherwise they may face detention and other unpleasantness at the hands of the “liberators.”

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.
     
    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven't lifted a finger against anyone. A modern, civilized state should still want to preserve their lives and try to persuade them to evacuate or perhaps even take forceful measures in their own interest (like many countries did with something much less risky than heavy artillery like Covid). If the translation I've read is correct, their authorities are only encouraging the "patriotic" population to leave. IOW, only those who, regardless of what they've done, have the correct ethnic allegiance in their minds are welcome to move to more secure places in Ukraine. No wonder some prefer to risk their lives and stay, if they feel they are not going to be welcomed in their own country.

    Replies: @AP

  589. @German_reader
    @Mikel


    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?
     
    Good illustration of this:

    https://twitter.com/GoeringEckardt/status/1621787854530551810

    Leading German Green Katrin Göring-Eckardt meeting and hugging Odessa's governor Maxim Marchenko.
    Marchenko was a commander of the Aidar battalion from 2015-2017...even the (presumably sanitized) Wikipedia page mentions this unit was notorious for far right (up to Neo-Nazism) views and has been accused of committing war crimes in Donbass:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidar_Battalion
    Saw some Ukraine-skeptic leftie on Twitter quip that Marchenko is probably especially happy a German named Göring is coming to visit.

    Göring-Eckardt, like many other Greens (many of whom think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukraine should re-conquer Crimea and Donbass), is now heavily pushing the "Putler wants to destroy Ukraine's cultural identity" line (others of course speak openly of "genocide"). She's also a leading advocate of mass immigration to Germany and has just recently managed to secure state funding (several million Euros a year) for German NGOs picking up Africans and other migrants in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe (her partner Thies Gundlach, a Protestant theologian, is directly involved in organizing these "sea rescue" efforts).

    You're of course right that by any reasonable standards Ukrainian nationalism, with its cult of WW2 fascists and mass murderers, its repressive cultural policies and its many unhinged and megalomaniacal representatives (some of whom are even fantasizing about "tribunals" for Western critics of their country) should be utterly incompatible with "European values". However, I doubt the progressives will notice the contradiction any time soon. Or maybe there isn't even much of a contradiction, it's not like fanaticism and manichaean self-righteousness are in any way alien to the progressive world view.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yevardian, @LondonBob

    should be utterly incompatible with “European values”

    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting “another Hitler” to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take “another Poland”(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.

    ofc, very very figuratively speaking.

    P.S. Nice to see you back, should a lot of fireworks follow, if stay for longer, we have active Polish conservative here now too, lol

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @sudden death


    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting “another Hitler” to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take “another Poland”(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.
     
    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn't really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that's totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language (e. g. I remember an article in Tageszeitung, the leading Green newspaper in Germany, where they reported on Russophone refugees from Eastern Ukraine in West Ukraine who were in some kind of programme to learn Ukrainian so they would eventually stop speaking Russian...reported in what seemed to me like a tone of sympathy).

    we have active Polish conservative here now too
     
    I remember that commenter from a few years ago. Not overly impressed by him, but I've seen he's already managed to trigger AP with negative comments about the Ukrainian "brothers". Very funny.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Coconuts

  590. @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN

    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation;)

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation

    All in due time. For now Ukies are moving fresh meat to Artemovsk meat grinder, even though the mayor office has already run away, they evacuated official archives, and Ukie official advised all “patriotic” Ukie civilians to leave Artemovsk. From Kiev regime POV the great majority of residents of Ugledar, as well as all other Donbass areas, are “unpatriotic”: some wish Ukies gone, most wish Ukies dead.

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @AnonfromTN


    Artemovsk meat grinder
     
    btw, Wagnerites have documented a good real visual impression of it lately, however UA troops were somehow missing from the picture:

    https://t.me/alexparkerlives/3347

  591. @AP
    @QCIC


    What they don’t tell you is all of that hardware came out of the Soviet Union
     
    As if Ukraine made no contribution to the development and production of that hardware?

    But the imagery is not really about Slavs protecting Slavs. It is about murdering Russian Slavs at the request of the West.
     
    If someone breaks into your house and you shoot him does that mean you’ve murdered the invader on someone’s behalf?

    Replies: @QCIC

    I am aware of many impressive Ukrainian contributions, which is why I acknowledged the An-70 aircraft. More accurately, these were contributions by Soviet citizens living in the Ukrainian region. Nonetheless the implication of the imagery is totally unbalanced in my opinion.

    +++

    Hah.

    Ukraine shares a “house” with Russia. The Ukrainians start killing Russians on the Ukrainian side of the front porch. Does Russia have the right to stop it?

    When Ukraine is unrepentant and escalates with the help of the new neighbor down the street, is it surprising when the Russians also escalate and reclaim the entire house as it had been in the past? Is Russia mistaken for simply recognizing the neighbor is a manipulative party who wants to create problems for Ukraine so they can foreclose on the shared house and bulldoze it to the ground?

  592. @AP
    @songbird


    Ancestor worship. Average Euro has around 1.7% Neanderthal DNA, I think, and they were in Europe a long time. (though some of the admixing happened in the Middle East.
     
    Almost all of Europeans’ Neanderthal admixture comes from early encounters in the Middle East, not from later encounters in Europe. The first Homo Sapiens who came Europe and mixed with the Neanderthals there were almost completely replaced by later waves of arrivals. This extinct population may have been 5% or more Neanderthal. Their Homo Sapien source population was more closely related to modern Asians than to modern Europeans IIRC.

    So the last of the Neanderthals, in Europe, have left almost no traces.

    Replies: @songbird

    So the last of the Neanderthals, in Europe, have left almost no traces.

    Already referenced the Middle East.

    But “almost no traces” is not the same as “no traces.” Look at the model of European population movements in the past 10,000 years. It contains many fluxes. The hunter gatherers in the North were not eliminated, but even had a sort of resurgence, and they were up against farmers and herders. (Neanderthals and their admixes weren’t.) And you are also ignoring how the range was connected. We are not talking about isolated islands.

    Zero connection is basically a mathematical impossibility, and it could very well be that our existing models are flawed. There’s been pretty big revisions in the past two years or so in places like Japan.

    Anyway, see my above post, referencing the metaphysical and eschewing percentages.

  593. @LatW
    @Gerard1234

    Just go away. We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives. Once Mykola finishes you off, it's going to be a good bye forever. You will no longer have to worry about us. You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    Replies: @LatW, @Yevardian, @Gerard1234

    Once Mykola finishes you off, it’s going to be a good bye forever

    I will admit that the threat of Oksana finishing off either us or the Europeans from syphilis transmission is big . Already half of our officials must have been targeted and seduced by Oksana. Its a race for both sides to resist this , but I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.

    As for “Myklola finshes you off” – LMAO – are you that much of a retarded POS?

    We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives.

    Your entire life on here seems to be looking at Russian, Soviet, Russian language cultue/modern videos and talking about them you retarded idiot. Don’t give me the laughable “waste of time and out lives” BS. Russia is your life and your entire political “elite”‘s existence you idiot – whoring themselves for American and western European attention and money with anti-Russian gestures is Latvia’s modus operandi.

    BTW – although not as direct a role as with the several other countries listed, I forgot Russia’s very important role in the creation of modern Greek state. Odessa and other Black Sea Malorossiya locations were important centres of Greek Independence movement meetings………of course I think one of the Greek prostitute FM recently claimed “Ukrainians” were responsible for this, LOL.

    You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

    Russia’s contribution to the world is unmatchable you imbecile.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Gerard1234


    I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.
     
    You underestimate Oksanas. They have more potent biological weapon than syphilis, the one with which Soviet medicine had little experience: HIV.

    Replies: @AP

  594. @AnonfromTN
    @sudden death


    Would be advisable not forgetting to take Ugledar at least, before getting that unconditional capitulation
     
    All in due time. For now Ukies are moving fresh meat to Artemovsk meat grinder, even though the mayor office has already run away, they evacuated official archives, and Ukie official advised all “patriotic” Ukie civilians to leave Artemovsk. From Kiev regime POV the great majority of residents of Ugledar, as well as all other Donbass areas, are “unpatriotic”: some wish Ukies gone, most wish Ukies dead.

    Replies: @sudden death

    Artemovsk meat grinder

    btw, Wagnerites have documented a good real visual impression of it lately, however UA troops were somehow missing from the picture:

    https://t.me/alexparkerlives/3347

  595. @Gerard1234
    @LatW


    Once Mykola finishes you off, it’s going to be a good bye forever
     
    I will admit that the threat of Oksana finishing off either us or the Europeans from syphilis transmission is big . Already half of our officials must have been targeted and seduced by Oksana. Its a race for both sides to resist this , but I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.

    As for "Myklola finshes you off" - LMAO - are you that much of a retarded POS?

    We are done with you. You have been a real waste of time and our lives.
     
    Your entire life on here seems to be looking at Russian, Soviet, Russian language cultue/modern videos and talking about them you retarded idiot. Don't give me the laughable "waste of time and out lives" BS. Russia is your life and your entire political "elite"'s existence you idiot - whoring themselves for American and western European attention and money with anti-Russian gestures is Latvia's modus operandi.

    BTW - although not as direct a role as with the several other countries listed, I forgot Russia's very important role in the creation of modern Greek state. Odessa and other Black Sea Malorossiya locations were important centres of Greek Independence movement meetings.........of course I think one of the Greek prostitute FM recently claimed "Ukrainians" were responsible for this, LOL.

    You can forget everything and you too will be forgotten. Have a nice life.

     

    Russia's contribution to the world is unmatchable you imbecile.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.

    You underestimate Oksanas. They have more potent biological weapon than syphilis, the one with which Soviet medicine had little experience: HIV.

    • LOL: Gerard1234
    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

  596. @A123
    The IslamoSoros delivers a fatal, completely terminal, ultra death blow to DeSantis 2024 campaign: (1)

    Ron DeSantis Wins the Coveted George Soros Endorsement – Describing DeSantis as “Shrewd, Ruthless and Ambitious”…

     

    When billionaire leftist and creepy globalist George Soros is complimenting your personality attributes, you just might be doing the whole Republican presidential candidate thing wrong. Just sayin’.
    ...
    This might be problematic. In addition to DeSantis supporters needing to defend the unlimited Ukraine grift, and the value of eating bugs as a conservative lifestyle, now they have to spin an endorsement of ruthless ambition by Darth Soros. Eh, sucks to be them.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/George-Soros-Ron-DeSantis.jpg

     

    No matter how skilled DeSantis may be... The embrace of George IslamoSoros is so unclean, the toxicity cannot be washed away.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/16/ron-desantis-wins-the-coveted-george-soros-endorsement-describing-desantis-as-shrewd-ruthless-and-ambitious/

    Replies: @AP

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @AP


    Going out on a limb here but I’m pretty sure George Soros is smart enough to understand that one of the best ways to help a progressive president win in 2024 is to create Republican civil war.
     
    Endorsing DeSantis ends potential internal MAGA strife. It solidifies Trump as the only viable primary candidate. Those on the fence about the Guantanamo prison lawyer are now jumping off it. And, they are landing squarely on the solid ground of Trump 2024.

    PEACE 😇
  597. @Sean

    https://wordandway.org/2022/09/27/sacrifices-on-an-altar-of-christian-nationalism/
    “This can only happen if we live with faith in our hearts because faith destroys fear. Faith gives the possibility of mutual forgiveness. Faith strengthens relationships between people that can really transform and is transforming these relationships into brotherly, cordial, and kind.” When national and Christian identities are conflated, to die for the nation is to die for God. To refuse to die for the nation is to deny God

    https://wordandway.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/65787d8e-3f0f-45e5-b940-b87f31ae9042_1121x630.webp
     
    As Mearsheimer has said, the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won't quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin's theatre thermonuclear threats. Speaking it won't work.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won’t quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin’s theatre thermonuclear threats.

    And you buy this nonsense? “fight like hell”?? I get more of the impression that most of the Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, because they’ve been drafted, conscripted, signed up to minimize jail time (felons in prison with long sentences), etc. wondering why they’re in Ukraine and praying to get out alive. Ukrainians are much more motivated, because they’re in their own home, fighting for their families safety, their cities, their freedom and autonomy. Why have so many of their major campaigns failed so miserably, if they’re so well motivated (Kyiv, Kherson, Kharkiv)?

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Mr. Hack

    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat. It is not yet obvious who will come out on top, which is something that with 3% of the GDP of the West will be a challenge for RusFed. What I am talking about is whether Russians (not just the leadership), will be in the frame of mind where they would be willing to accept such a defeat; 'twould be the end of Russia as pretentions to be a great power if they backed down after being driven out of Ukraine. They might, or might not acquiesce in such a denouement or resort to something egregious. One thing is for certain, the Kremlin's threat of nonconventional response will not work, they cannot merely speak it.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @Johnny Rico
    @Mr. Hack

    "Why have so many of their major campaigns..."

    They have had ONE major campaign. This is it. This will go a long way to assuaging your confusion.

  598. Dmitry hates my sociological movie recommendations, so I will offer this not addressed to him, but to anyone potentially interested in such things, and anime-tolerant:

    The two movies I would most recommend for understanding Japanese psychology, as I see it, are:

    1.) Silent Voice. (2016) Koe no Katachi, lit. ’The Shape of Voice’

    [MORE]

    2.) The Anthem of the Heart (2015) Kokoro ga Sakebitagatterunda., lit. “My Heart Wants to Shout”

    IMO, they show that the Japanese are a singularly shy and introverted people, but, of course, there is a lot of overlap with shy individuals who are not Japanese, and so they contain a psychological interest applicable to a wide group of people but one not covered by extroverted Hollywood.

    Honestly, found the first one a bit difficult to watch (i.e. the beginning), but I am glad I did watch it.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I think Japanese shyness is vastly overstated. I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans, but that's a special case. Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not - something of great value that is missing in Hollywood - a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    One of the best books to understand Japan is Karel van Wolferen "The Enigma of Japanese Power", a very different book from usual Western worship of Japanese aesthetics (looking at Japan as primarily aesthetics, what HMS is doing here) It is not well-known because the Japanese don't like it. But it is so good that its Japanese edition was practically banned/severely restricted in Japan.

    https://www.amazon.com/Enigma-Japanese-Power-Karel-Wolferen/dp/0394577965/


    One if Wolferen's main theses is that the Japanese worship Japanessnes (or all things "Nippon") as such. Interestingly, Sion Sono in his movie "Himizu" kind of confirmed it. There is a scene where a TV runs in background, and the guy criticizes there Japan in such words like: "Unlike in other countries - Jewish, Christian, Muslim - God is not omnipotent being in Japan... In Japan, God does not urge people to change their ways...Japanese people put themselves first... It is all self-interest. Japanese people want to maintain their way of life at any cost." This was not an anthropology lecture , though: it was a critic of Japanese officials conduct during Fukushima crisis. But of course it is Japanese officials who are all about "Nippon" - so for this reason their criticism in the Japanese TV in this movie is formulated through a very universal language. Probably also for other reasons - did you notice that in Japanese movies people almost never criticize Japanese goverment or Japan..?

    , @songbird
    @songbird

    BTW, in the first movie I mentioned, there is a very, very minor character from Brazil with a dark skin and curly-haired phenotype. Most of his actualization is just that he is phenotypically represented as the father of the somewhat dark niece of one of the main characters.

    But I've very deeply wondered what he is meant to represent. Whether a black, mulatto, or just one of those Japanese Brazilians who returned from Brazil and have a bit of obvious admixture.

    Anyway, at some future time, I hope the Japanese make quick edits to remove him, and prevent the damaging effects of multiculturalism from manifesting on a large scale.

  599. @AnonfromTN
    @Gerard1234


    I think the Soviet history in medicine and healthcare can give us the advantage.
     
    You underestimate Oksanas. They have more potent biological weapon than syphilis, the one with which Soviet medicine had little experience: HIV.

    Replies: @AP

    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @AP


    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

     

    LMAO - so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the "landlocked PLC " garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake "ukrainian" act is the fake doctor act - you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your "life"- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn "overperforming"). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn't mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem.....and reputation for it that it does


    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems ...you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia.......than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy - the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural - so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger.....but it isn't. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn't, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990's than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people.......Galicia has next to none of this.....its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD's are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack

  600. @songbird
    Dmitry hates my sociological movie recommendations, so I will offer this not addressed to him, but to anyone potentially interested in such things, and anime-tolerant:

    The two movies I would most recommend for understanding Japanese psychology, as I see it, are:

    1.) Silent Voice. (2016) Koe no Katachi, lit. 'The Shape of Voice'
    https://youtu.be/nfK6UgLra7g

    2.) The Anthem of the Heart (2015) Kokoro ga Sakebitagatterunda., lit. "My Heart Wants to Shout"
    https://youtu.be/EnbgMjdguxI

    IMO, they show that the Japanese are a singularly shy and introverted people, but, of course, there is a lot of overlap with shy individuals who are not Japanese, and so they contain a psychological interest applicable to a wide group of people but one not covered by extroverted Hollywood.

    Honestly, found the first one a bit difficult to watch (i.e. the beginning), but I am glad I did watch it.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    I think Japanese shyness is vastly overstated. I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans, but that’s a special case. Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not – something of great value that is missing in Hollywood – a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans
     
    This is something hard to order. Americans are often perceived to have a superficial friendliness and ease (I suspect some of this comes from Hollywood), but does it mean they are more extroverted? Or is it purely presentation? Americans typically need more personal space than most people.

    And how much of my perceived ranking of Japan comes from their scale and production of culture, compared to people like the Finns who have only a small pop?

    I describe Hollywood as being "extroverted." But, to me, this only partly reflects America, and is more purely a reflection of the odd psychology of the people who are drawn there, and who can make a success there. IMO, you really need to be a self-promoter and have a lot of confidence, and the production process probably favors the pace that people with verbal tilt and daring can set.

    Now, if we consider Japanese culture in the same way, it seems quite a bit different. One heavy hitter (more so than here) is video games - something made by nerds for nerds. But quite a lot of their culture is based on manga and light novels, which have a different production process (focused on people who like drawing, in the case of manga) and seemingly much different creators than Hollywood scripts. (I would give the American analogue of Charles Schulz and his creation Charlie Brown - a seemingly very introverted character).

    The final result of this is not just anime, but it enters into a lot of live-action productions.

    BTW, I read a book by a woman involved in one of the movies I mentioned above Anthem of the Heart, and it seemed to me that she was a very strange character. She chronically skipped school because of her fear of it, and it is really hard for me to imagine a Hollywood analogue to that, but there she was an essential part of the creative team and very close to the director of the film.

    But my view of the Japanese is also influenced by street perceptions of them. Haven't been there, but I have seen a lot of videos of them.

    Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.
     
    It is evident in Japanese history as well. I don't think that shyness necessarily equals pacifism.

    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.

    The result of this is that very tough, heroic characters are depicted showing a lot of deep thought and consideration, without needing to show a lot of emotion or speaking a lot of words. It is a kind of chivalry. Courtesy for comrades without verbosity.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not – something of great value that is missing in Hollywood – a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.
     
    Couldn't agree more. I think people overlook Japan too much, and focus on Korea. But even if Japan is not at its cultural peak, neither is Hollywood. And there is a lot made in the past ten years or so that I've really appreciated, and found moving. Stuff that I would almost consider high art, or as much that ever makes it into popular presentations today, and maybe, even one quasi-masterpiece, which though flawed, really impressed me.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  601. @Mr. Hack
    @Mikel


    It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”.
     
    I like your call the best, for it gets to the point and is all inclusive. However, give her some credit, Vereshchuk didn't go as far as to say:

    'All indequates, law-breaking and fifth-columnists may stay behind"

    Woke up with a short fuse this morning, did you? There's a war going on, is their really a good reason to coddle the aggressors?

    Replies: @Mikel

    There’s a war going on, is their really a good reason to coddle the aggressors?

    What a strange way of interpreting my comment.

    From time to time some Western media touch briefly on reports of Ukrainians killing Russian POWs and such incidents. To be honest, I can’t muster much indignation at this type of events. If you are a soldier invading another country you shouldn’t count too much on the forces opposing you being too humanitarian. By contrast, I find this type of statements by the authorities (on both sides) much more discouraging because they reveal why it’s all ended up in a full-on war to begin with.

    I remember a Ukrainian general some years ago, when the Donbas war had already entered a protracted phase, saying to the media that Ukraine needed to decide if it wanted to just recover the lost territories or to win the hearts of its inhabitants as well. He thought that Ukraine was then only doing the former and apparently he didn’t think that was a good long-term strategy. Events have proven him right. With many more people in Kiev thinking like him there might not have been an aggressor in a war like this to coddle or denounce.

  602. @AnonfromTN
    @Sher Singh

    First fact is, the great majority of humans eat beef. Second fact is, most gods do not give a hoot about beef eating. End of story.

    Replies: @songbird, @Sher Singh

    Hello, you were the remaining Sovok who hadn’t answered.

    Final fact is, the people lynching you definitely do care and Gods would rather watch than save you.

    End of story.

    Hohol

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Sher Singh


    Hohol
     
    Now I know why Sikhs do not have their own state. Actually, for the same reason Kurds don’t have their own state. The common reason: always backing the wrong horse.
  603. This quote from Plotinus seems peculiarly apt in these times –

    “Man-made weapons directed against fellow-mortals in quaintly set-out battles, like Pyrrhic dances, show what children’s games are all our human affairs; and they show us, too, that death is nothing very serious: to die in wars, in battles, is to grow old a little before one’s time; it is going away suddenly, to come back again.

    [MORE]

    “Murders, death in all its shapes, the capture and sacking of towns, all must be considered as so much stage-show, so many shiftings of scenes, the horror and outcry of a play; for here, too, in all the changing doom of life, it is not the true man, the inner Soul, that grieves and laments but merely the phantasm of the man, the outer man, playing his part on the boards of the world. Who could be troubled by such griefs, except one that understands only the lower and outer life, never dreaming that all the tears and mighty business are but a sport? . . . If the Sage has to take part in the revels he will not forget that he has fallen among children and for the moment discarded his own grave truth.”

  604. @Coconuts
    @Dmitry


    It won’t continue anyway, unless your children marry each other.
     
    HMS was correct in his reply that I didn't have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    By great-great-great grandchildren, are the same relation to you as second cousins.
     
    But they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    I didn’t have genetic similarity as such in mind.

    Sure, most people do not, but discussion with Bashibuzuk/Ano4 is about the genetic lineage which is what he says he is interested about.

    In this example, your grandchildren will have around similar quantity of your genetic lineage as your nephew.

    Having great-great-great-great-grandchildren, it’s like your second cousin has a child, if you use his perspective that genetic lineage is important (although he hasn’t really explained to me why to follow his perspective and my superficial response from reading this feels more like robotization of humanity than romance).

    they would still be my great-great-great grandchildren, because they were not closely related (?) to me it would not follow that they had no great-great-great grandfather.

    In the perspective of the family tree or normal peoples’ view. For example, if you are a Lord of London, then I’m sure you need to have direct ancestry to continue this position. And adopted children can continue the family tradition, even without the same genetic codes.

    But Bashibuzuk/Ano4 writing about the genetic lineage. In this perspective, indirect and direct descendants is not different (unless you think radiation introduced some interesting random mutation in your particular copy of the machine code, or there is some interesting epigenetic effects from your lifestyle especially) .

    For example, if your cousin has a lot of children, after several generations, effect in the quantity of your genetic lineage pushing to the future population, would be the same as you having directly children (although with different quantity needed to attain the same results in terms of the quantity of your genetic lineage that are adding).

  605. @songbird
    Dmitry hates my sociological movie recommendations, so I will offer this not addressed to him, but to anyone potentially interested in such things, and anime-tolerant:

    The two movies I would most recommend for understanding Japanese psychology, as I see it, are:

    1.) Silent Voice. (2016) Koe no Katachi, lit. 'The Shape of Voice'
    https://youtu.be/nfK6UgLra7g

    2.) The Anthem of the Heart (2015) Kokoro ga Sakebitagatterunda., lit. "My Heart Wants to Shout"
    https://youtu.be/EnbgMjdguxI

    IMO, they show that the Japanese are a singularly shy and introverted people, but, of course, there is a lot of overlap with shy individuals who are not Japanese, and so they contain a psychological interest applicable to a wide group of people but one not covered by extroverted Hollywood.

    Honestly, found the first one a bit difficult to watch (i.e. the beginning), but I am glad I did watch it.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    One of the best books to understand Japan is Karel van Wolferen “The Enigma of Japanese Power”, a very different book from usual Western worship of Japanese aesthetics (looking at Japan as primarily aesthetics, what HMS is doing here) It is not well-known because the Japanese don’t like it. But it is so good that its Japanese edition was practically banned/severely restricted in Japan.

    One if Wolferen’s main theses is that the Japanese worship Japanessnes (or all things “Nippon”) as such. Interestingly, Sion Sono in his movie “Himizu” kind of confirmed it. There is a scene where a TV runs in background, and the guy criticizes there Japan in such words like: “Unlike in other countries – Jewish, Christian, Muslim – God is not omnipotent being in Japan… In Japan, God does not urge people to change their ways…Japanese people put themselves first… It is all self-interest. Japanese people want to maintain their way of life at any cost.” This was not an anthropology lecture , though: it was a critic of Japanese officials conduct during Fukushima crisis. But of course it is Japanese officials who are all about “Nippon” – so for this reason their criticism in the Japanese TV in this movie is formulated through a very universal language. Probably also for other reasons – did you notice that in Japanese movies people almost never criticize Japanese goverment or Japan..?

    • Thanks: songbird
  606. German_reader says:
    @sudden death
    @German_reader


    should be utterly incompatible with “European values”
     
    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting "another Hitler" to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take "another Poland"(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.

    ofc, very very figuratively speaking.

    P.S. Nice to see you back, should a lot of fireworks follow, if stay for longer, we have active Polish conservative here now too, lol

    Replies: @German_reader

    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting “another Hitler” to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take “another Poland”(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.

    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn’t really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that’s totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language (e. g. I remember an article in Tageszeitung, the leading Green newspaper in Germany, where they reported on Russophone refugees from Eastern Ukraine in West Ukraine who were in some kind of programme to learn Ukrainian so they would eventually stop speaking Russian…reported in what seemed to me like a tone of sympathy).

    we have active Polish conservative here now too

    I remember that commenter from a few years ago. Not overly impressed by him, but I’ve seen he’s already managed to trigger AP with negative comments about the Ukrainian “brothers”. Very funny.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @German_reader

    Aye oop Reader. Howz things?

    , @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn’t really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that’s totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language...
     
    I used this a while ago in another reply but... I think it is because for these progressives Ukraine represents what is written on the left hand side, or the potential for it, and Russia represents what is written on the right hand side:

    Liberty, progress and reason vs. Feudalism, reaction and violence.

    Economics, technology and industry vs. The State, war and politics.

    Parliamentarianism vs. Dictatorship.

    From the progressive pov the right hand side is the enemy of humanity side so it is okay to want to crush the supporters of that.

    If you add some of the other general tendencies in progressive politics at the moment like placing high value on action and activism, the pursuit of a general vision or ideal over specifics and emphasising political will as shaping reality, I think you can see how they get to their positions more.
  607. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I think Japanese shyness is vastly overstated. I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans, but that's a special case. Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not - something of great value that is missing in Hollywood - a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.

    Replies: @songbird

    I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans

    This is something hard to order. Americans are often perceived to have a superficial friendliness and ease (I suspect some of this comes from Hollywood), but does it mean they are more extroverted? Or is it purely presentation? Americans typically need more personal space than most people.

    [MORE]

    And how much of my perceived ranking of Japan comes from their scale and production of culture, compared to people like the Finns who have only a small pop?

    I describe Hollywood as being “extroverted.” But, to me, this only partly reflects America, and is more purely a reflection of the odd psychology of the people who are drawn there, and who can make a success there. IMO, you really need to be a self-promoter and have a lot of confidence, and the production process probably favors the pace that people with verbal tilt and daring can set.

    Now, if we consider Japanese culture in the same way, it seems quite a bit different. One heavy hitter (more so than here) is video games – something made by nerds for nerds. But quite a lot of their culture is based on manga and light novels, which have a different production process (focused on people who like drawing, in the case of manga) and seemingly much different creators than Hollywood scripts. (I would give the American analogue of Charles Schulz and his creation Charlie Brown – a seemingly very introverted character).

    The final result of this is not just anime, but it enters into a lot of live-action productions.

    BTW, I read a book by a woman involved in one of the movies I mentioned above Anthem of the Heart, and it seemed to me that she was a very strange character. She chronically skipped school because of her fear of it, and it is really hard for me to imagine a Hollywood analogue to that, but there she was an essential part of the creative team and very close to the director of the film.

    But my view of the Japanese is also influenced by street perceptions of them. Haven’t been there, but I have seen a lot of videos of them.

    Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.

    It is evident in Japanese history as well. I don’t think that shyness necessarily equals pacifism.

    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.

    The result of this is that very tough, heroic characters are depicted showing a lot of deep thought and consideration, without needing to show a lot of emotion or speaking a lot of words. It is a kind of chivalry. Courtesy for comrades without verbosity.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not – something of great value that is missing in Hollywood – a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.

    Couldn’t agree more. I think people overlook Japan too much, and focus on Korea. But even if Japan is not at its cultural peak, neither is Hollywood. And there is a lot made in the past ten years or so that I’ve really appreciated, and found moving. Stuff that I would almost consider high art, or as much that ever makes it into popular presentations today, and maybe, even one quasi-masterpiece, which though flawed, really impressed me.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird

    Extroversion is a symbol of high status in America. Recently. There are tens millions introverts in the United States. They are not displayed in the media.

    One of the weirdest things I have ever seen was last summer I was in a local retail place and they had a big screen television showing Olympic ladies badminton doubles. And these 4 Asian women badminton players. Doing celebrations and high fives and everything when they won a point.

    And I just stared at it and thought WTF is that?

    American negroes invented that stupid crap. Their mothers have to have been aghast.

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird


    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.
     
    Well put. It's been written about - Japan being a "high context" culture and all that - but I don't think it's really been captured that well. It's a sort of introspection and stillness. As you say, it's something you "feel" more than you can describe in words - lots of things about Japanese culture really depend on a "feeling", more than on rational description.

    Even lots of the music in anime, has a different feel that I can't really put into words - somehow a sense of sadness and yearning is communicated, even though it's just pop music lol. I've heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it's often distinctive emotional tone.

    Btw, I wouldn't say Japan is being neglected at all now - it's having rather a moment, even. Lots of Westerners have moved to Japan and run popular YouTube channels - check out Abroad in Japan for light entertainment. Even PewDiePie just moved to Japan with his wife. And anime is huge in the West now.

    When I was in Japan around 2009, in a week in Tokyo I saw only a few Westerners. Often I was the only white person around. This time, Westerners were everywhere!

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in - I think it's great, personally, but I doubt it's going to get extreme.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics? Tell us, please!

    Replies: @songbird

  608. @songbird
    @AnonfromTN

    India is actually a massive exporter of beef. But not from cows.

    Replies: @QCIC

    What does this mean?

    Beef from what, then?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @QCIC

    Water buffaloes, mainly.

    You can also get beef from bison. I once ordered a bison burger at a restaurant, and either they misheard me, or it tasted so similar I couldn't tell the difference.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Barbarossa

  609. @Mr. Hack
    @Sean


    the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won’t quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin’s theatre thermonuclear threats.
     
    And you buy this nonsense? "fight like hell"?? I get more of the impression that most of the Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, because they've been drafted, conscripted, signed up to minimize jail time (felons in prison with long sentences), etc. wondering why they're in Ukraine and praying to get out alive. Ukrainians are much more motivated, because they're in their own home, fighting for their families safety, their cities, their freedom and autonomy. Why have so many of their major campaigns failed so miserably, if they're so well motivated (Kyiv, Kherson, Kharkiv)?

    Replies: @Sean, @Johnny Rico

    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat. It is not yet obvious who will come out on top, which is something that with 3% of the GDP of the West will be a challenge for RusFed. What I am talking about is whether Russians (not just the leadership), will be in the frame of mind where they would be willing to accept such a defeat; ‘twould be the end of Russia as pretentions to be a great power if they backed down after being driven out of Ukraine. They might, or might not acquiesce in such a denouement or resort to something egregious. One thing is for certain, the Kremlin’s threat of nonconventional response will not work, they cannot merely speak it.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Sean


    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat.
     
    This could be, but you haven't at all substantiated that the Russian military has been "fighting like hell". If this were indeed the case, why have they been pushed back in important battles like in Kyiv, Kherson or Kharkiv?

    Replies: @Sean

  610. @QCIC
    @songbird

    What does this mean?

    Beef from what, then?

    Replies: @songbird

    Water buffaloes, mainly.

    You can also get beef from bison. I once ordered a bison burger at a restaurant, and either they misheard me, or it tasted so similar I couldn’t tell the difference.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @songbird

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Also, don't forget that all cows are cattle but not all cattle are cows. Deep man...like a zen koan man...

    To be more exact, cows are female cattle. Bulls or steers (when castrated) are male.

    When our resident Sikh gets irritable about cow slaughter, he is most irate about female cattle getting slaughtered. Not to reiterate the discussion from months ago on the topic, but I understand that point, although unlike him I'm not going to threaten to cut your head off over it.

    @Sher Singh
    While on the topic, why haven't you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals? You could be like an elite pinch hitter that they only deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.

    It's got all the elements you are looking for...action, protecting cows, and an opportunity to use that sword in a badass manner.

    The question is perhaps half wise-ass, but the thought is amusing at any rate!

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh

  611. @AP
    @Mikel


    Irina Vereshchuk asked the civilians still in Bakhmut to urgently leave the city if they are “adequate, law-abiding and patriotic“.

    This is talk straight out of the 1930s. It’s not “leave the city because you are Ukrainian citizens in grave danger and my duty is to protect you”. It’s “leave the city if you are patriotic Ukrainians or else we don’t care about your fate”
     
    It’s simpler than that. A small percentage of the population in these places are pro-Russian and await Russian “liberation.” These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation. The rest are strongly encouraged to leave, otherwise they may face detention and other unpleasantness at the hands of the “liberators.”

    Replies: @Mikel

    These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.

    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven’t lifted a finger against anyone. A modern, civilized state should still want to preserve their lives and try to persuade them to evacuate or perhaps even take forceful measures in their own interest (like many countries did with something much less risky than heavy artillery like Covid). If the translation I’ve read is correct, their authorities are only encouraging the “patriotic” population to leave. IOW, only those who, regardless of what they’ve done, have the correct ethnic allegiance in their minds are welcome to move to more secure places in Ukraine. No wonder some prefer to risk their lives and stay, if they feel they are not going to be welcomed in their own country.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikel


    “These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.”

    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven’t lifted a finger against anyone
     

    The government has been trying to evacuate them but some are refusing to leave. Out if 80,000 people living there before the war an estimated 6,000 remain. Some out of fear due to poor health and not wanting to move, others out stubbornness, others because they await Russian “liberation.”

    I didn’t read into the comment that the government is forcing any people to stay there. I took it to mean that those who refuse to leave are probably not patriotic. That is, appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. This interpretation is supported by her later comments when she said that by staying, the people are making it harder for the military defenders because they must also care for the civilians who refuse to leave which interferes with the proper defense of the city. So she was appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. If you are a law-abiding patriot you will do the right thing and leave.

    (this btw implies that the government is not interested in civilian human shields; it wants the civilians out of the way so that it can fight properly)

    It seems to be an anti-Ukrainian twist of her words to say that she said she wouldn’t evacuate non-patriots.

    Replies: @Mikel

  612. @songbird
    Dmitry hates my sociological movie recommendations, so I will offer this not addressed to him, but to anyone potentially interested in such things, and anime-tolerant:

    The two movies I would most recommend for understanding Japanese psychology, as I see it, are:

    1.) Silent Voice. (2016) Koe no Katachi, lit. 'The Shape of Voice'
    https://youtu.be/nfK6UgLra7g

    2.) The Anthem of the Heart (2015) Kokoro ga Sakebitagatterunda., lit. "My Heart Wants to Shout"
    https://youtu.be/EnbgMjdguxI

    IMO, they show that the Japanese are a singularly shy and introverted people, but, of course, there is a lot of overlap with shy individuals who are not Japanese, and so they contain a psychological interest applicable to a wide group of people but one not covered by extroverted Hollywood.

    Honestly, found the first one a bit difficult to watch (i.e. the beginning), but I am glad I did watch it.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective, @songbird

    BTW, in the first movie I mentioned, there is a very, very minor character from Brazil with a dark skin and curly-haired phenotype. Most of his actualization is just that he is phenotypically represented as the father of the somewhat dark niece of one of the main characters.

    But I’ve very deeply wondered what he is meant to represent. Whether a black, mulatto, or just one of those Japanese Brazilians who returned from Brazil and have a bit of obvious admixture.

    Anyway, at some future time, I hope the Japanese make quick edits to remove him, and prevent the damaging effects of multiculturalism from manifesting on a large scale.

  613. @AP
    @A123



    https://twitter.com/megebrock/status/1626633667433926656?s=46&t=s_6qcAtOkIhlOK3P1zrQaQ

    Replies: @A123

    Going out on a limb here but I’m pretty sure George Soros is smart enough to understand that one of the best ways to help a progressive president win in 2024 is to create Republican civil war.

    Endorsing DeSantis ends potential internal MAGA strife. It solidifies Trump as the only viable primary candidate. Those on the fence about the Guantanamo prison lawyer are now jumping off it. And, they are landing squarely on the solid ground of Trump 2024.

    PEACE 😇

  614. @Yahya
    @Dmitry


    Also, invention of farming up to 500 generations ago, creates reduction of the selection pressure from the environment. So, we have insignificant number of generations, with reduction of selection pressure from environment in the low number of generations as result of artificial engineering of the environment.
     
    Greg Cochran and Henry Harpending would dispute this assertion. In their book they state that evolutionary pressures accelerated after the development of agriculture; at a rate of 100 times more than the long-term average of the previous 6 million years. The reason is because agriculture supported larger and more dense human settlements; which meant favorable mutations would occur more often. Mutation generation is a function of population size. 60,000 years ago, there were approximately 250,000 modern humans. By the Bronze Age, 3,000 years ago, that number was roughly 60 million. Favorable mutations that had previously occurred every 100,000 years or so were by the Bronze Age showing up every 400 years. The mutations would then spread quickly among the population, no matter how large, because mutations increase in frequency exponentially.

    The agricultural revolution exerted new environmental challenges for humans; which by natural selection we became adapted to. For example; the farming diet was a lot more carbohydrate intensive, alcoholic, and vitamin-deficient than hunter-gatherer diets. This lead to an increase in prevalence of diabetes, acne, tooth aces and alcoholism. People who had genetic variants who could help them deal with these side effects were more likely to survive and pass their genes down. Even a single copy of an advantageous gene could spread rapidly if it conferred a marginally significant survival advantage. That was the case for the alleles regulating skin color (SLC24A5), eye color (HERC2), lactose tolerance (LCT), and dry earwax (ABCC11).

    The allele SLC24A5 came into existence only 5,800 years ago; but it has a frequency of about 99 percent throughout Europe and is found at significant levels in North Africa, East Africa, and as far east as India and Ceylon. In Roman times; chroniclers would note that the Picts of Scotland were dark-skinned. We also know that the indigenous WHG's of Europe were also dark-skinned 6,000 years ago. East Asians and Amerindians diverged only 15,000 years ago; yet observe the significant differences in physiognomy and behavior between them.

    The evolutionary responses differ by region; depending on when agriculture was adopted. Places where agriculture is the oldest, such as the Middle East, Europe, India and China; have people who are most adapted to agricultural society. Amerindians in the Illinois and Ohio river valleys adopted maize agriculture only 1,000 years ago, but the Australian Aborigines never domesticated plants at all. We therefore see fewer adaptive changes among them and sub-Saharan Africans.

    Evolution has continued at a fast pace even in the modern period. Gregory Clark has outlined the selective process operating on Englishmen throughout the previous 500 years in A Farewell To Alms. He found that the upper class had approximately two times more children than the lower classes; eventually making English society more bourgeois in behavior. Natural selection can operate on a short period of time given a sufficiently large population.

    If an allele affecting behavior had a frequency of 20 percent and a 6 percent selective advantage in a European population in 1500; then over the next 300 years, the frequency of that allele would have doubled, and going from 20 percent to 40 percent. This would be enough to give European society in 1800 some new capability or tendency.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    Why are you posting to me from texts of pseudoscience anthropology? You know you can go to a bookshop and read the textbooks written by the scientists in the relevant areas.

    I and Bashibuzuk are just beginning discussion in this forum of real science like the anti-gravity technology our ancient Russian ancestors used to construct the pyramids.


    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-209/#comment-5818081

    diverse dog breeds created through unnatural human intervention, to natural wolves who have changed much less and more slowly

    It’s not a relevant discussion, they are selectively bred using inbreeding. The animal is not necessarily changing in many areas, but more unusual animals in the population are being selected for a particular aspect which the humans noticed.

    The only humans with this extent of circular inbreeding for some number of generations would be like Hapsburgs and there is no selective breeding introduced to this cycle. Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).

    complex economic and social relationships can be expected to have evolved much more quickly in only a few thousand years than had their ancestors who had engaged in the same more natural Hunter-gatherer

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age. And main population bottlenecks were thousands of years ago.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    It’s just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history, or 500 vs 1000,000,000,000 generations for the pre-human evolution.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).
     
    By the natural environment but not by the man-made environment.

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age.
     
    This is only true for the last 100+ years.

    But there were enormous opportunities for changes in the thousands of years since agriculture, and in the hundreds of years since urbanization and larger towns.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    It’s just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history,
     
    Now multiply the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.

    70,000 years ago there may have only been 10,000 people.

    12,000 years ago there were an estimated 2 million people. One generation 5000 years ago was the equivalent of 200 generations 70,000 years ago, in terms of the odds of a helpful mutation appearing.

    5000 years ago there were 45 million.

    And then consider the radically different environment, that would encourage the spread of mutations that would help in the new environment but that would have been useless in the old one (and so would not spread). People who had the same lifestyle for 10,000 years would not change much during that time, because any mutations would be less likely to be particularly helpful.

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

  615. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans
     
    This is something hard to order. Americans are often perceived to have a superficial friendliness and ease (I suspect some of this comes from Hollywood), but does it mean they are more extroverted? Or is it purely presentation? Americans typically need more personal space than most people.

    And how much of my perceived ranking of Japan comes from their scale and production of culture, compared to people like the Finns who have only a small pop?

    I describe Hollywood as being "extroverted." But, to me, this only partly reflects America, and is more purely a reflection of the odd psychology of the people who are drawn there, and who can make a success there. IMO, you really need to be a self-promoter and have a lot of confidence, and the production process probably favors the pace that people with verbal tilt and daring can set.

    Now, if we consider Japanese culture in the same way, it seems quite a bit different. One heavy hitter (more so than here) is video games - something made by nerds for nerds. But quite a lot of their culture is based on manga and light novels, which have a different production process (focused on people who like drawing, in the case of manga) and seemingly much different creators than Hollywood scripts. (I would give the American analogue of Charles Schulz and his creation Charlie Brown - a seemingly very introverted character).

    The final result of this is not just anime, but it enters into a lot of live-action productions.

    BTW, I read a book by a woman involved in one of the movies I mentioned above Anthem of the Heart, and it seemed to me that she was a very strange character. She chronically skipped school because of her fear of it, and it is really hard for me to imagine a Hollywood analogue to that, but there she was an essential part of the creative team and very close to the director of the film.

    But my view of the Japanese is also influenced by street perceptions of them. Haven't been there, but I have seen a lot of videos of them.

    Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.
     
    It is evident in Japanese history as well. I don't think that shyness necessarily equals pacifism.

    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.

    The result of this is that very tough, heroic characters are depicted showing a lot of deep thought and consideration, without needing to show a lot of emotion or speaking a lot of words. It is a kind of chivalry. Courtesy for comrades without verbosity.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not – something of great value that is missing in Hollywood – a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.
     
    Couldn't agree more. I think people overlook Japan too much, and focus on Korea. But even if Japan is not at its cultural peak, neither is Hollywood. And there is a lot made in the past ten years or so that I've really appreciated, and found moving. Stuff that I would almost consider high art, or as much that ever makes it into popular presentations today, and maybe, even one quasi-masterpiece, which though flawed, really impressed me.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Extroversion is a symbol of high status in America. Recently. There are tens millions introverts in the United States. They are not displayed in the media.

    One of the weirdest things I have ever seen was last summer I was in a local retail place and they had a big screen television showing Olympic ladies badminton doubles. And these 4 Asian women badminton players. Doing celebrations and high fives and everything when they won a point.

    And I just stared at it and thought WTF is that?

    American negroes invented that stupid crap. Their mothers have to have been aghast.

    • Agree: songbird
  616. @Mikel
    @AP


    These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.
     
    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven't lifted a finger against anyone. A modern, civilized state should still want to preserve their lives and try to persuade them to evacuate or perhaps even take forceful measures in their own interest (like many countries did with something much less risky than heavy artillery like Covid). If the translation I've read is correct, their authorities are only encouraging the "patriotic" population to leave. IOW, only those who, regardless of what they've done, have the correct ethnic allegiance in their minds are welcome to move to more secure places in Ukraine. No wonder some prefer to risk their lives and stay, if they feel they are not going to be welcomed in their own country.

    Replies: @AP

    “These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.”

    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven’t lifted a finger against anyone

    The government has been trying to evacuate them but some are refusing to leave. Out if 80,000 people living there before the war an estimated 6,000 remain. Some out of fear due to poor health and not wanting to move, others out stubbornness, others because they await Russian “liberation.”

    I didn’t read into the comment that the government is forcing any people to stay there. I took it to mean that those who refuse to leave are probably not patriotic. That is, appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. This interpretation is supported by her later comments when she said that by staying, the people are making it harder for the military defenders because they must also care for the civilians who refuse to leave which interferes with the proper defense of the city. So she was appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. If you are a law-abiding patriot you will do the right thing and leave.

    (this btw implies that the government is not interested in civilian human shields; it wants the civilians out of the way so that it can fight properly)

    It seems to be an anti-Ukrainian twist of her words to say that she said she wouldn’t evacuate non-patriots.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    appealing to patriotism to get people to leave
     
    I don't have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people's patriotism when she knows that most of these "zhduny" are anything but Ukrainian patriots looks like a very misguided way to motivate them to leave. After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed, it doesn't seem to me that there's much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war. How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn't want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave "if they are patriots"?

    Replies: @AP

  617. @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    She Singh’s obsession with trannies
     
    When your head of state both looks like a tranny and makes an appearance on some TV show starring gays and trannies, then it is probably not an obsession.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Who is this?

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Who is this?
     
    Trudeau. I'd post the clip, but I find it too disturbing.

    @QCIC

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?
     
    Correct. And I neglected to mention steers (male equivalent of cow), as Barbarossa brought up.

    Sher Singh is not wrong about some level of Euro reverence in ancient times. Can be seen in the Milky Way, and the word "galaxy." I quite like that part of the Tain, where Cuchulain comes upon the Morrigan disguised as a hag milking a cow, and, not seeing through her disguise, blesses her in return for the milk, healing the three injuries that he gave her, as she tried to trip him up in battle. (for example, the broken rib, when she was an eel in at the ford)

    But I do wonder what percentage of Hindus would actually eat the meat of such animals, since most seem to be vegetarians or quasi-vegetarians (And isn't that partly about reverence for animal life?) and a lot stick with eggs or if they eat meat eat chicken.

    Am not predicting a successful world-dom by the Sikhs (who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds), but if it ever comes to pass, my fall back plan is to convert to bison-eating. Beefalo is a fuzzy area, and I'd probably stay away from it, with Sikh overlords.

    One worrisome point is cross-contamination in American bison.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefalo

    Don't particularly like the idea of eating water buffalo, as it seems to be very wormy.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  618. @songbird
    @QCIC

    Water buffaloes, mainly.

    You can also get beef from bison. I once ordered a bison burger at a restaurant, and either they misheard me, or it tasted so similar I couldn't tell the difference.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Barbarossa

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @QCIC

    https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2017/09/25/the-dominion-of-the-gods-rich-pastures-and-the-dispossessed-cultivators-of-the-land-in-the-gathas-of-zarathustra/

    Vedic cattle raiding is famous to the extent that Persian ethnonyms convey their victimization.
    Sacrifice of Cow/Bull is banned in Kali Yuga though.
    All animals are sacred in their unique way.

    https://khatvaanga.wordpress.com/2016/10/02/spaces/
    https://dharmawiki.org/index.php/Gomedha_Yajna_(%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%83)


    The Old Avestan term drigû conveys the idea of “toil, hard labor, drudgery,” and refers to “the downtrodden, the oppressed cultivators, tillers, farmers and growers of the land who are subjected to the tyranny of the despot lords.”

    Prophet Zarathustra imposed an “order of farming nobility” based on “love of animals, stewardship of the land, and fondness for all things that grow, and are fruitful.” This order of Zoroastrian “farming nobility” was opposed by “cattle-raiding warrior bands,” who designated their leaders as Adhrigu “lord,” (he who is NOT drigû).

    These “warrior bands” called themselves also “man-wolves,” and mixed blood of the sacrificed cows with sacred mead/wine, in their orgiastic rites. Their cruelty toward innocent animals, and their bloody bovine sacrifices, were especially appalling to the ancient Aryan Seer/Prophet.

    It shall be added that in the Vedic Mythology, Marutas, a “band of young warriors,” were Indra‘s shock troops who called Indra their “chief, lord,” Adhrigu (he who is NOT drigû.)
     
    https://twitter.com/Parikramah/status/1237607880565518336
  619. @songbird
    @QCIC

    Water buffaloes, mainly.

    You can also get beef from bison. I once ordered a bison burger at a restaurant, and either they misheard me, or it tasted so similar I couldn't tell the difference.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Barbarossa

    Also, don’t forget that all cows are cattle but not all cattle are cows. Deep man…like a zen koan man…

    To be more exact, cows are female cattle. Bulls or steers (when castrated) are male.

    When our resident Sikh gets irritable about cow slaughter, he is most irate about female cattle getting slaughtered. Not to reiterate the discussion from months ago on the topic, but I understand that point, although unlike him I’m not going to threaten to cut your head off over it.


    While on the topic, why haven’t you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals? You could be like an elite pinch hitter that they only deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.

    It’s got all the elements you are looking for…action, protecting cows, and an opportunity to use that sword in a badass manner.

    The question is perhaps half wise-ass, but the thought is amusing at any rate!

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa

    How is your library project going? Does it look like this yet?

     
    https://ace.mu.nu/archives/021223-Library.jpg
     


    animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals ... deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.
     
    I do not think he has a problem with dairy.

    One could liberate beef cattle. Except, where would they go? Small critters like mink or lab mice vanish into the wild where they are eaten by wolves and other predators. Steer would simply wander around until recapture.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa


    While on the topic, why haven’t you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6QyTxVVmvk

    Cuz Khalsa decorates weapons with blood.

    @songbird Yea female cow is protected, Oxen is rarely eaten probably did during a seige.
    They only say we did the unmentionable but were still panged by hunger.

    Male Buffalo is fine, but rare due to goats etc now ie see Nepal Festivals.
    Baba Deep Singh Ji did Jhatka of Buffalo & Havan before wedding death vs Afghans.

    https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Deep_Singh

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ
  620. It’s got all the elements you are looking for…action, protecting cows, and an opportunity to use that sword in a badass manner.

    It’s nothing like the good old days of the Monkey Wrench Gang. After 9/11/2001 they made a federal case out of that stuff which is now eco-terrorism and you can get a permanent residence in Guantanamo Bay if they decide to play rough with you.

    I don’t think they even do redwood tree sits any more though maybe they chopped them all down already. Before 9/11/2001 the college radio station I listened to had a report from the redwood tree sit audience every damn morning. Whenever I listened real close to see if they were just playing a recording of yesterday’s report they always had something different in there so you could tell. They had a subscription to some beat reporter who was on site.

    That had to be like the easiest job in the world. There isn’t anything else which requires a news reporter within 180 miles and your daily report is inflated nothingness.

  621. @German_reader
    @Mikel


    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?
     
    Good illustration of this:

    https://twitter.com/GoeringEckardt/status/1621787854530551810

    Leading German Green Katrin Göring-Eckardt meeting and hugging Odessa's governor Maxim Marchenko.
    Marchenko was a commander of the Aidar battalion from 2015-2017...even the (presumably sanitized) Wikipedia page mentions this unit was notorious for far right (up to Neo-Nazism) views and has been accused of committing war crimes in Donbass:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidar_Battalion
    Saw some Ukraine-skeptic leftie on Twitter quip that Marchenko is probably especially happy a German named Göring is coming to visit.

    Göring-Eckardt, like many other Greens (many of whom think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukraine should re-conquer Crimea and Donbass), is now heavily pushing the "Putler wants to destroy Ukraine's cultural identity" line (others of course speak openly of "genocide"). She's also a leading advocate of mass immigration to Germany and has just recently managed to secure state funding (several million Euros a year) for German NGOs picking up Africans and other migrants in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe (her partner Thies Gundlach, a Protestant theologian, is directly involved in organizing these "sea rescue" efforts).

    You're of course right that by any reasonable standards Ukrainian nationalism, with its cult of WW2 fascists and mass murderers, its repressive cultural policies and its many unhinged and megalomaniacal representatives (some of whom are even fantasizing about "tribunals" for Western critics of their country) should be utterly incompatible with "European values". However, I doubt the progressives will notice the contradiction any time soon. Or maybe there isn't even much of a contradiction, it's not like fanaticism and manichaean self-righteousness are in any way alien to the progressive world view.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yevardian, @LondonBob

    Welcome back to the cesspit. I have an excuse to write a short summary of last year’s reading now.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    tbh I already feel like I shouldn't have commented here again. 80% or so of the comments are trash from my pov that isn't really worth reading or engaging with.
    I'm looking forward to your book list though. Might post something of the sort myself again at some point.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

  622. @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Also, don't forget that all cows are cattle but not all cattle are cows. Deep man...like a zen koan man...

    To be more exact, cows are female cattle. Bulls or steers (when castrated) are male.

    When our resident Sikh gets irritable about cow slaughter, he is most irate about female cattle getting slaughtered. Not to reiterate the discussion from months ago on the topic, but I understand that point, although unlike him I'm not going to threaten to cut your head off over it.

    @Sher Singh
    While on the topic, why haven't you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals? You could be like an elite pinch hitter that they only deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.

    It's got all the elements you are looking for...action, protecting cows, and an opportunity to use that sword in a badass manner.

    The question is perhaps half wise-ass, but the thought is amusing at any rate!

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh

    How is your library project going? Does it look like this yet?

     

     

    animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals … deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.

    I do not think he has a problem with dairy.

    One could liberate beef cattle. Except, where would they go? Small critters like mink or lab mice vanish into the wild where they are eaten by wolves and other predators. Steer would simply wander around until recapture.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm sure he has no problem with dairy, but modern production has an extremely quick turnover/cull rate. Modern dairy production is dependent on incessant cow slaughter.

    Modern meat and dairy is a nasty business with the septic veneer of machine efficiency.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

  623. @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    Welcome back to the cesspit. I have an excuse to write a short summary of last year's reading now.

    Replies: @German_reader

    tbh I already feel like I shouldn’t have commented here again. 80% or so of the comments are trash from my pov that isn’t really worth reading or engaging with.
    I’m looking forward to your book list though. Might post something of the sort myself again at some point.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    80% or so of the comments are trash
     
    Ouch! But have you never seen that shadow art that they make from trash?
    https://twitter.com/DesperateAnnie/status/1626342849955479554?s=20

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

    , @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    Here's the list of books I read last year, not counting lazy re-reads (mostly Nabokov, Houllebecq & Chekhov) only counting stuff I read cover-to-cover (some I'd skimmed through before, but only read properly last year), so that takes out a lot of primary sources of dubious literary worth/broader interest, but possessing some crucial historical value, i.e. stuff like Diodoros or Xenophon's Moralia Xenophon's non-historical works (and most of the moralising literature of antiquity generally) may be among the most tedious books ever written ... definitely works I can't imagine anyone ever reading purely for pleasure or fun (lol).

    I really should have written a short paragraph on each of these for myself after finishing them, as doing so would only have taken a tiny fraction of the time it took to read them.
    List is copied from a log file, each was entered in as finished them in the year, but I removed the dates I finished them on, as that's really only of interest as memento to myself.

    Might still write up short summaries of the ones that most stood out.

    Edwin Williamson - The Penguin History of Latin America [2nd ed.]
    (2009)

    R.L. Machugh - Modern Mexico
    (1914)

    Owen Hatherley - Landscapes of Communism: A History Through Buildings
    (2015)

    R. Trevor Davies - Spain in Decline: 1621-1700
    (1957)

    John Davies - A History of Wales [2nd ed.]
    (2007)

    Arnold J. Toynbee - Hellenism
    (1959)

    J.H. Plumb - England in the Eighteenth Century
    (1950)

    Norman Davis - The Hellenistic Kingdoms: Portrait Coins and History
    (1973)

    Glen R. Bugh [ed.] - The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World
    (2006)

    William Woodthorpe Tarn - Alexander the Great
    (1926, rev. 1948)

    Edward Anson - Eumenes of Cardia: A Greek Among Macedonians
    (2004)

    Vladislav Zubok - Collapse: The Fall of The Soviet Union
    (2021)

    Roy Medvedev - The Conundrum of Russian Capitalism [Ru]
    (2000)

    Cyrus H. Gordon - Forgotten Scripts
    (1982)

    Ernst Badian - Collected Papers on Alexander the Great, 1958-2007
    (2012)

    Peter Zeihan - Disunited Nations: The Scramble for Power in an Ungoverned World
    (2020)

    Rolf Strootman & Miguel Versluys [eds.] - Persianism in Antiquity
    (2017)

    Edward M. Anson - Alexander's Heirs: The Age of the Successors
    (2014)

    Peter Green - Alexander of Macedon, 356-323 BC: A Historical Biography
    (1972)

    Arrian - Anabasis
    (100s AD)

    Lionel Pearson - The Early Ionian Historians
    (1939)

    Ktesias - Persica [Surviving Fragments]
    (400s BC)

    Matt Waters - Ctesias' "Persica" and Its Near Eastern Context
    (2017)

    Peter Zeihan - The End of The World is Only Beginning
    (2022)

    Duncan Head - The Achaemenid Persian Army
    (1992)

    Richard A. Billows - Antigonos the One-Eyed and the Creation of the Hellenistic State
    (1990)

    Susan Sherwin-White & Amélie Kuhrt - From Samarkand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire
    (1993)

    G.G. Aperghis - The Seleucid Royal Economy
    (2000)

    Arnaldo Momigliano - Studies in Historiography
    (1966)

    Hakob Manandyan - Tigranes II and Rome: A New Interpretation based on the Primary Sources [Armenian]
    (1940)

    Jakob Munk Højte [ed.] - Mithridates VI and the Pontic Kingdom
    (2009)

    Edwyn R. Bevan - The House of Seleucus [2 volumes]
    (1902)

    David Stove - On the 'Enlightenment'
    (2002)

    James J Coyle - Russia's Interventions in Ethnic Conflicts: The Case of Armenia and Azerbaijan
    (2021)

    Thomas Harrison - Writing Ancient Persia
    (2011)

    Arnaldo Momigliano - The Limits of Hellenization
    (1975)

    Herodotos - The Histories
    (430s BC)

    Arthur M. Eckstein - Mediterranean Anarchy, Interstate War, and the Rise of Rome
    (2006)

    Christian Marek - In the Land of a Thousand Gods: A History of Asia Minor in the Ancient World
    (2010)

    David Graeber - Debt: The First 5'000 Years
    (2011)

    Arkady & Boris Strugatsky - Roadside Picnic
    (1971)

    V.S. Naipaul - Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey
    (1980)

    Pierre Briant - From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire
    (1996)

    John Barton - A History of the Bible: The Book and Its Faiths
    (2019)

    Rush Doshi - The Long Game: China's Grand Strategy to Displace American Order
    (2021)

    Michael R.J Bonner - The Last Empire of Iran [i.e. Sasanids]
    (2020)

    Vladimir Nabokov - Look at the Harlequins!
    (1973)

    Replies: @German_reader

  624. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I once read an article which proposed genetic reconstruction of Neanderthals (not in their 100% entirety but as much as it is possible). This maybe be the perspective for trying to recover every Neanderthal gene they could.

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty, so it would be a rather ironic (in a sad way) if they became champions of whites.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    BTW, Neanderthals were not really white but rather swarty, so it would be a rather ironic (in a sad way) if they became champions of whites.

    Hasn’t stopped Steppe Aryans.

  625. @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    tbh I already feel like I shouldn't have commented here again. 80% or so of the comments are trash from my pov that isn't really worth reading or engaging with.
    I'm looking forward to your book list though. Might post something of the sort myself again at some point.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    80% or so of the comments are trash

    Ouch! But have you never seen that shadow art that they make from trash?

    [MORE]

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird

    Didn't mean to include you in that assessment. But a lot of tedious normie-tier nonsense here, sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain "memesmix.net" has been blocked because of Trojans. I'm pretty sure it must be because of something Bashibuzuk/Ivashka posted, because I also get the warning when looking at his commenting history. Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi. Might be better if he refrained from posting image links to dodgy Russian websites in future...

    Replies: @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Looking at the photo while listening to the Art of Noise in the background.

    https://youtu.be/QIjSY9uLtRU

    As the title of this album suggests, some really good ambient music, if not a little over the top, or what they used to call "avante-guard".....

    Replies: @songbird

  626. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    You can apply Shannon's information entropy approach to genetic information.



    The maximum value of information contained in a given DNA base pair alignment is 2 bits. You can easily estimate how useful is a genomic feature by looking at its information content.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_logo

    And information theory can be effectively applied not only to DNA and the derived RNA and proteins (as per the central dogma of the molecular biology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_dogma_of_molecular_biology), but also to the protein-protein interactions in the interactome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactome). It could be applied to the cellular receptors interacting with their ligands etc.

    It is all information. Not only DNA, but everything else too.

    You probably know of the Kolmogorov - Chaitin Complexity. It is also directly applicable to the genomics because the genome is the basic program needed to encode the cellular object in its complexity and the cells form the organism which is even more complex.

    Information is logarithmic. The average human genome would contain a maximum of 6,6 Gigabit of information. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics) we would get into the Big Data category.

    The gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind and everybody else's are nodes in a communication network- the interactome of consciousness spanning space and time. In Zen there is a saying: it's not mind, we just call it Mind. Also: a billion eyes see - a billion ears hear - a billion hands help. Also a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

    It all points in the same direction - Mind Only (Cittamatra, Vijnanavada, Yogacara: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara). They didn't need bioinformatics or information theory or internet to get to this point of realization. They just needed sitting quietly facing a wall.

    Consciousness is a feature of Reality and Reality is a reflection of this Consciousness. It is like something or someone looking at oneself in a mirror trough your eyes, but also my eyes and everyone's else's.

    https://www.lionsroar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/enso-featured.png

    Why should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself (Tat tvam asi).

    Sentient beings suffer and are worthy of compassion.

    Even the worst among them.

    We are into it all together.

    It is sometimes calles Interbeing.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/interbeing

    Materialism is limitating and boring, especially when there is nothing that separates mind from matter. Rationalism will only get you that far. It will not lead to the other shore. To get to the other shore one must stop clutching at straws of reason.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    all information. Not only DNA, but everything.. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics)

    I feel you are confusing different concepts of information and confusing also difference between information and the information about something.

    [MORE]

    For example, if instructions for building IKEA furniture can be several kilobytes. But the information about the furniture you build using this instructions would be textbooks of physics and chemistry.

    The furniture that is constructed is not the same as the instructions for building, although there is physical interaction between the instructions and the furniture constructed.

    Same, textbooks of physics and chemistry that would describe the IKEA furniture which is constructed, are not the same as the IKEA furniture constructed.

    We can’t do the furniture shopping going to the IKEA catalogue and downloading the instructions, or reading the scientific explanation in the textbook. Physical object is different than both algorithm for assembly (instructions) and information describing it (textbooks).

    For DNA, its real existence is some chains of amino acids, the information is the patterns of machine code that it contains and these patterns which has predictable (i.e. the pattern-based) causal relations with the physical world.

    But when we talk about the machine code, this is a discussion about the patterns in the chains of relevant chains of protein in the animal and plant cells. This is information in the normal understanding, as something that can be reduced to the digital code.

    quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel’s meaning

    He had proved a lack of consistency in the formal system (based in axioms). I’m not sure you can say “incomplete of mathematics to express reality” based in this. It’s about incompleteness to axiomatize mathematics.

    gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind

    Genetics are just machine code that has a predictable relation to physical world. It’s not “for” anything. It has random variation although in context of the probability chains which creates the very sensitive and gradual relations of the machine code in relation to its own history and environment.

    should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself

    You can be confusing notidentical things. For example of notidentical things, we can confuse in the normal discussion, maybe think about between a bottle of Coca Cola and the Coca Cola.

    If you say “this is a bottle of Coca Cola”? Is the bottle made of Coca Cola instead of plastic? Is plastic Coca Cola?

    If you drink the bottle of coca cola, so it falls to your stomach, can you say “this is a stomach of coca cola”. It has causal relations with Coca Cola, but the stomach is not the same as Coca Cola.

    If you open the bottle of Coca Cola and throw the liquid components into the sink, is it a bottle of Coca Cola or bottle of plastic?

    Bottle of Coca Cola includes multiple notidentical kind of things (plastic, Coca Cola liquid) which are having a particular causal relation.

    I wouldn’t speculate, but the relation between the minds and the animals can possibly be nonidentical relations.

    As we all know, we see mainly a predictable causal relations between the minds and the animals. But this isn’t enough to say they are the same things.

    a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

    It can be trying to make the students of the Zen teacher think to this more universal sense of the mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)

    longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third – fourth degree cousins.

    For most of our history, we lived in the groups around 80 people.

    We didn’t necessarily inherit preference to reduce the genetic diversity, but it could be in the other direction, we inherit preference to increase genetic diversity, as the evidence of the hunter-gatherers was to often try to increase the genetic diversity to their groups by marrying to other tribes.

    Obviously, what we inherit, is not necessarily “correct” from universal view or even “adapted” for current environments’ view. But it’s possible patterns from this time continue in our current environment.

    Although we know those explanations of culture from evolution, are usually a pseudoscience, as the methodology follows something more like “just-so” stories.

    Let’s say, in literary or poetical view, still feels like we have a new perspective when we look at the hunter-gatherer time where orders of magnitude most of the generations of our human ancestors experienced.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    My reply was posted as comment # 651. For some reason, It was unlinked from your comment while posting it.

  627. Sher Singh says:
    @Barbarossa
    @songbird

    Also, don't forget that all cows are cattle but not all cattle are cows. Deep man...like a zen koan man...

    To be more exact, cows are female cattle. Bulls or steers (when castrated) are male.

    When our resident Sikh gets irritable about cow slaughter, he is most irate about female cattle getting slaughtered. Not to reiterate the discussion from months ago on the topic, but I understand that point, although unlike him I'm not going to threaten to cut your head off over it.

    @Sher Singh
    While on the topic, why haven't you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals? You could be like an elite pinch hitter that they only deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.

    It's got all the elements you are looking for...action, protecting cows, and an opportunity to use that sword in a badass manner.

    The question is perhaps half wise-ass, but the thought is amusing at any rate!

    Replies: @A123, @Sher Singh

    While on the topic, why haven’t you joined up with one of those ultra animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals?

    Cuz Khalsa decorates weapons with blood.

    Yea female cow is protected, Oxen is rarely eaten probably did during a seige.
    They only say we did the unmentionable but were still panged by hunger.

    Male Buffalo is fine, but rare due to goats etc now ie see Nepal Festivals.
    Baba Deep Singh Ji did Jhatka of Buffalo & Havan before wedding death vs Afghans.

    https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Deep_Singh

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  628. @Leaves No Shadow
    @songbird

    Who is this?

    Replies: @songbird

    Who is this?

    Trudeau. I’d post the clip, but I find it too disturbing.

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?

    Correct. And I neglected to mention steers (male equivalent of cow), as Barbarossa brought up.

    Sher Singh is not wrong about some level of Euro reverence in ancient times. Can be seen in the Milky Way, and the word “galaxy.” I quite like that part of the Tain, where Cuchulain comes upon the Morrigan disguised as a hag milking a cow, and, not seeing through her disguise, blesses her in return for the milk, healing the three injuries that he gave her, as she tried to trip him up in battle. (for example, the broken rib, when she was an eel in at the ford)

    [MORE]

    But I do wonder what percentage of Hindus would actually eat the meat of such animals, since most seem to be vegetarians or quasi-vegetarians (And isn’t that partly about reverence for animal life?) and a lot stick with eggs or if they eat meat eat chicken.

    Am not predicting a successful world-dom by the Sikhs (who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds), but if it ever comes to pass, my fall back plan is to convert to bison-eating. Beefalo is a fuzzy area, and I’d probably stay away from it, with Sikh overlords.

    One worrisome point is cross-contamination in American bison.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefalo

    Don’t particularly like the idea of eating water buffalo, as it seems to be very wormy.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @songbird


    Sikhs who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds
     

    Thulean is buttmad & should rope.
    Sikhs went from 60% in the 60/70s to 55% despite:

    Disproportionate outmigration
    An increase in migrant workers to about 10% of the pop
    Losses in the insurgency, drugs, targeted abortions etc.
     
    Ethnic Panjabis in E. Punjab likely 70-75% Sikh & 100 in rural areas now.
    Migrant Biharis are shifting to West UP factories amidst persistent attacks.
    Panjabi Sikhs & Hindus are more unified now than anytime since 1850s.
    The racial divide between Iranic & Aborigine at West/East UP is Indus Valley Era.
    We naturally hate blacks & multiple states have banned migrants, Punjab's not alone.
    --
    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
    Fertility is a function of female equality & drops a decade after its legal imposition.
    Sikhs are the richest religion in India so the elite tfr's likely higher than Muslims.
    --
    Sikh militancy is more centralized & politically/religiously established now.
    Nihang Singh Dals (warbands) exist in Delhi/West UP + abroad.
    BJP Punjab is filled with separatists - all that's missing is early 90s religious courts..

    https://www.tiktok.com/@sanjhapunjab_2australia/video/7198794245413588226

    Punjabi culture dominates India & Sikhs/Hindus are unified in Punjab/West UP.

    Gujurati Hindus asked for a Kirpan ban in Australia after beatings in Melbourne.
    Singhs are in the national parliament with Sabres days after.
    Sikh Sadhus/Brahmins are foremost among their circles.

    Brahmin Singh whose wife, 2 daughters & himself ate Indian Tanks as human bombs
    https://www.1984tribute.com/shaheed-giani-mohar-singh/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

  629. Sher Singh says:
    @QCIC
    @songbird

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2017/09/25/the-dominion-of-the-gods-rich-pastures-and-the-dispossessed-cultivators-of-the-land-in-the-gathas-of-zarathustra/

    Vedic cattle raiding is famous to the extent that Persian ethnonyms convey their victimization.
    Sacrifice of Cow/Bull is banned in Kali Yuga though.
    All animals are sacred in their unique way.

    https://khatvaanga.wordpress.com/2016/10/02/spaces/
    https://dharmawiki.org/index.php/Gomedha_Yajna_(%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%83)

    [MORE]

    The Old Avestan term drigû conveys the idea of “toil, hard labor, drudgery,” and refers to “the downtrodden, the oppressed cultivators, tillers, farmers and growers of the land who are subjected to the tyranny of the despot lords.”

    Prophet Zarathustra imposed an “order of farming nobility” based on “love of animals, stewardship of the land, and fondness for all things that grow, and are fruitful.” This order of Zoroastrian “farming nobility” was opposed by “cattle-raiding warrior bands,” who designated their leaders as Adhrigu “lord,” (he who is NOT drigû).

    These “warrior bands” called themselves also “man-wolves,” and mixed blood of the sacrificed cows with sacred mead/wine, in their orgiastic rites. Their cruelty toward innocent animals, and their bloody bovine sacrifices, were especially appalling to the ancient Aryan Seer/Prophet.

    It shall be added that in the Vedic Mythology, Marutas, a “band of young warriors,” were Indra‘s shock troops who called Indra their “chief, lord,” Adhrigu (he who is NOT drigû.)

  630. @Yahya
    @Barbarossa

    Correction: should be “meat” rather than “fruit”.

    Replies: @Sean

    You are still wrong. And so is this fellow

    Vitamin D is limited by multiple mechanisms in the body and skin of white people.

    White skin evolved in the Bronze age invasions, and it was an adaptation by women to the murderously patriarchal Yamanaya culture of the Beaker folk who took over so much of northern Europe. White skin inhibits aggression and stimulates care and provisioning. Like a baby’s skin.

    • Troll: Yahya
    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Sean

    You’re talking out of your ass.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941824/

    Replies: @Sean

    , @Sean
    @Sean

    The alleles for dark skin disappeared from Europe during the Bronze age a very long time after the switch to agriculture. White skin inhibits aggression and also sexual interest, which is why so many young women nowadays go to trouble to tan.


    https://www.vice.com/en/article/xygkpj/melanotan-ii-gives-us-what-we-always-wanted-dark-tans-and-powerful-erections

  631. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    80% or so of the comments are trash
     
    Ouch! But have you never seen that shadow art that they make from trash?
    https://twitter.com/DesperateAnnie/status/1626342849955479554?s=20

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

    Didn’t mean to include you in that assessment. But a lot of tedious normie-tier nonsense here, sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain “memesmix.net” has been blocked because of Trojans. I’m pretty sure it must be because of something Bashibuzuk/Ivashka posted, because I also get the warning when looking at his commenting history. Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi. Might be better if he refrained from posting image links to dodgy Russian websites in future…

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.
     
    I know the feeling.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain “memesmix.net” has been blocked because of Trojans.
     
    Interesting. Lately, I've been getting a lot of weird errors, when I post. Says something like "wrong section." Comment goes through, but it doesn't appear to, unless you open another tab. Never used to get such errors. Could it be Bashi's links? Am probably using a different set-up than most people, so don't know if others would see the same error. (But I assume I am secure.)

    Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi.
     
    Was going to try to make a joke about that at one time, but I couldn't tell whether Altan was joking or serious, and didn't want to spook anyone. I believe Unz is pretty secure from exploitations.
    , @Ivashka the fool
    @German_reader

    I only post links to images that I find on the web through a basic web search. The links to documents I post are also found on the web, through a simple search. Usually I post links to Wikipedia or other basic stuff. I don't recall having posted anything esoteric from "dodgy Russian websites". And I don't recall having posted anything from the domain you describe. BTW, I am not the one who posts the most images or pictures on these threads, some commenters basically post an image in every 2nd comment. But yes, I don't mind, I can certainly stop posting any images even though it is just links to things available on the web, nothing I uploaded from my own computer.

  632. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    The only ways to continue genetic similarity to you in the future (if this was considered important for a reason*), is not just children, but inbreeding where your descendants are marrying each other only.
     
    In the longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third - fourth degree cousins. A people was in a true sense an extended family. Ethnic nationalism is an ideological relict species of the natural humanity.

    If the population is increasing, there will be more possible “appointments” for re-incarnation as human. But what if the population is falling after you are dead? There can be more souls than humans available at the time and you would probably have to be another animal.
     
    Yes that is why as humans increase in numbers and humanity progresses in its cultural and civilizational fields the number of humans increase, and the number of beasts decreases. Pigs, cats, rats and dogs take human flesh and sometimes act accordingly to their previous identity. Humanity gets too lazy and stupid. Now that we get lazy, dumb and perverted, the nature would normally progressively take it all back and animals will again become more numerous. A circle of mind ecology. Unless the Technosphere replaces it all. There is a limited quantity of information that the biosphere can contain, it is directly linked to the amount of energy this planet receives from the Sun and produces through its volcanic activity (the Sun is obviously the most important part).

    About information in biological systems, ses my comment above.

    😉

    Replies: @Dmitry

    number of humans increase, and the number of beasts decreases

    Numbers of wild animals decreases, but numbers of animals in the factory farms increases. Factory farms are one of the more negative things in terms of the popular view. But I wonder for Buddhists which strongly follow their religion, who can calculate not so unlikely (from their view) probability their relatives will be re-incarnated as a cow in the factory farm in Brazil, who will be killed with their friends and family so their body can be lunch for American fast-food addicts.

    Pigs, cats, rats and dogs take human flesh and sometimes act accordingly to their previous identity.

    It depends if you view about re-incarnation is more like Druze, who believe only similar things will be re-incarnated to similar things, or like Buddhists who believe there can be re-incarnation in even different species of animal.

    Also how gradually you would move between categories or can be a change between very different types of animal.

  633. @German_reader
    @songbird

    Didn't mean to include you in that assessment. But a lot of tedious normie-tier nonsense here, sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain "memesmix.net" has been blocked because of Trojans. I'm pretty sure it must be because of something Bashibuzuk/Ivashka posted, because I also get the warning when looking at his commenting history. Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi. Might be better if he refrained from posting image links to dodgy Russian websites in future...

    Replies: @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.

    I know the feeling.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain “memesmix.net” has been blocked because of Trojans.

    Interesting. Lately, I’ve been getting a lot of weird errors, when I post. Says something like “wrong section.” Comment goes through, but it doesn’t appear to, unless you open another tab. Never used to get such errors. Could it be Bashi’s links? Am probably using a different set-up than most people, so don’t know if others would see the same error. (But I assume I am secure.)

    Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi.

    Was going to try to make a joke about that at one time, but I couldn’t tell whether Altan was joking or serious, and didn’t want to spook anyone. I believe Unz is pretty secure from exploitations.

  634. @German_reader
    @sudden death


    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting “another Hitler” to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take “another Poland”(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.
     
    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn't really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that's totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language (e. g. I remember an article in Tageszeitung, the leading Green newspaper in Germany, where they reported on Russophone refugees from Eastern Ukraine in West Ukraine who were in some kind of programme to learn Ukrainian so they would eventually stop speaking Russian...reported in what seemed to me like a tone of sympathy).

    we have active Polish conservative here now too
     
    I remember that commenter from a few years ago. Not overly impressed by him, but I've seen he's already managed to trigger AP with negative comments about the Ukrainian "brothers". Very funny.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Coconuts

    Aye oop Reader. Howz things?

  635. @songbird
    @German_reader


    80% or so of the comments are trash
     
    Ouch! But have you never seen that shadow art that they make from trash?
    https://twitter.com/DesperateAnnie/status/1626342849955479554?s=20

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

    Looking at the photo while listening to the Art of Noise in the background.

    As the title of this album suggests, some really good ambient music, if not a little over the top, or what they used to call “avante-guard”…..

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, I wonder whether you would be considered atypical, as someone who seems to appreciate modern art (afraid I mostly do not), while simultaneously being able to enjoy old movies and books. (that is, like pre-Hemingway). Or, maybe, the combination is not that uncommon?

    @German_reader
    I recalled the error incorrectly, here is what it said:


    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead
    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION
     

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool

  636. @Sean
    @Mr. Hack

    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat. It is not yet obvious who will come out on top, which is something that with 3% of the GDP of the West will be a challenge for RusFed. What I am talking about is whether Russians (not just the leadership), will be in the frame of mind where they would be willing to accept such a defeat; 'twould be the end of Russia as pretentions to be a great power if they backed down after being driven out of Ukraine. They might, or might not acquiesce in such a denouement or resort to something egregious. One thing is for certain, the Kremlin's threat of nonconventional response will not work, they cannot merely speak it.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat.

    This could be, but you haven’t at all substantiated that the Russian military has been “fighting like hell”. If this were indeed the case, why have they been pushed back in important battles like in Kyiv, Kherson or Kharkiv?

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Mr. Hack

    Were Russia to fight like hell and suffer reverses, that would not necessarily mean when faced with being forced out of all Ukrainian territory they are going to even toy with the idea of avoiding a humiliating defeat by detonating thermonuclear theatre weapons on the Ukrainian armed forces. One can easily imagine the Russians realising Putin and his circle made a mistake in invading, the generals being extremely reluctant to nuke Ukraine and even Putin understanding that his legacy would not survive such a doubling down.

    I just don't think it is likely to happen that way because states with great power status have an internal logic of their own that does not brook being fenced in by enemy alliances and embargoes, or economically strangles. Mearsheimer cites the Japanese attack on Peal Harbour, which Jap leadership understood to be starting something that was quite likely to not have a good ending.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCD_line
    Japan saw it as an a stranglehold, one they had to break out of. That being the case they decided to fight the West. Journalist who have talked to ordinary Russian soldiers recently say they think it is the opening of what will become WW3. I simply think on balance Putin


    The harder and more effectively the Russian military fight, the less relevant is what I am saying. The decisions I am talking about would--if ever taken--be the prerogative of the highest authorities in the Kremlin and require only a few top generals to approve of them. The US/ Ukrainian assassination campaign against top Russian commanders (including the army's head of electronic warfare who was surely targeted) has probably led to the surviving Russian generals being royally pissed off at Ukraine and in a mood to do something egregious to it. Fact is America in not going to start a nuclear war just to completely defeat Russia in Ukraine. Russia has already failed in its original objectives and shown and whatever gains it makes will be made at a cost the innately cautious Putin never dreamt of when deciding to go ahead with it. He underestimated Ukraine and has shown the world that Russia has been overestimated

  637. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    Looking at the photo while listening to the Art of Noise in the background.

    https://youtu.be/QIjSY9uLtRU

    As the title of this album suggests, some really good ambient music, if not a little over the top, or what they used to call "avante-guard".....

    Replies: @songbird

    Mr. Hack, I wonder whether you would be considered atypical, as someone who seems to appreciate modern art (afraid I mostly do not), while simultaneously being able to enjoy old movies and books. (that is, like pre-Hemingway). Or, maybe, the combination is not that uncommon?


    I recalled the error incorrectly, here is what it said:

    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead
    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird

    "Wrong Post Type" is a known, intermittent site issue. It has been around for at least a couple years. If it crops up on a regular basis, please report it here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#respond

    It does not seem to be particularly threatening, however it voids the 5 minute edit period.

    PEACE 😇

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I may seem to be somewhat expansive in my tastes, but I'm really not. I think that there are a lot of other commenters at this blogsite that outdo me in their appreciation of different eras, and different styles of art. That's one of the reasons I enjoy reading this blog. As a young man I pursued a bachelors degree in European history. Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture (I actually felt that a lot of the "philosophers" of the area were all about nonsense...crap). :-) One can learn to appreciate different forms of art etc; by studying the underlining currents and ideas that are trying to inform the art. Also, I grew up during a very raucous time frame for art in general, 1960's - 1980's, encompassing psychedelia and pop art. I guess this is where I originally learned to appreciate these styles too. You and I both seem to appreciate older American film from the 1940's - 1950's, and also adventure yarns and biographies of an earlier era too. There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein.....

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    I have also seen this error a couple of times. The comment I posted went through despite the error message.

    Replies: @songbird

  638. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, I wonder whether you would be considered atypical, as someone who seems to appreciate modern art (afraid I mostly do not), while simultaneously being able to enjoy old movies and books. (that is, like pre-Hemingway). Or, maybe, the combination is not that uncommon?

    @German_reader
    I recalled the error incorrectly, here is what it said:


    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead
    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION
     

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool

    “Wrong Post Type” is a known, intermittent site issue. It has been around for at least a couple years. If it crops up on a regular basis, please report it here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#respond

    It does not seem to be particularly threatening, however it voids the 5 minute edit period.

    PEACE 😇

    • Thanks: songbird, Ivashka the fool
  639. @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    tbh I already feel like I shouldn't have commented here again. 80% or so of the comments are trash from my pov that isn't really worth reading or engaging with.
    I'm looking forward to your book list though. Might post something of the sort myself again at some point.

    Replies: @songbird, @Yevardian

    Here’s the list of books I read last year, not counting lazy re-reads (mostly Nabokov, Houllebecq & Chekhov) only counting stuff I read cover-to-cover (some I’d skimmed through before, but only read properly last year), so that takes out a lot of primary sources of dubious literary worth/broader interest, but possessing some crucial historical value, i.e. stuff like Diodoros or Xenophon’s Moralia Xenophon’s non-historical works (and most of the moralising literature of antiquity generally) may be among the most tedious books ever written … definitely works I can’t imagine anyone ever reading purely for pleasure or fun (lol).

    I really should have written a short paragraph on each of these for myself after finishing them, as doing so would only have taken a tiny fraction of the time it took to read them.
    List is copied from a log file, each was entered in as finished them in the year, but I removed the dates I finished them on, as that’s really only of interest as memento to myself.

    Might still write up short summaries of the ones that most stood out.

    [MORE]

    Edwin Williamson – The Penguin History of Latin America [2nd ed.]
    (2009)

    R.L. Machugh – Modern Mexico
    (1914)

    Owen Hatherley – Landscapes of Communism: A History Through Buildings
    (2015)

    R. Trevor Davies – Spain in Decline: 1621-1700
    (1957)

    John Davies – A History of Wales [2nd ed.]
    (2007)

    Arnold J. Toynbee – Hellenism
    (1959)

    J.H. Plumb – England in the Eighteenth Century
    (1950)

    Norman Davis – The Hellenistic Kingdoms: Portrait Coins and History
    (1973)

    Glen R. Bugh [ed.] – The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World
    (2006)

    William Woodthorpe Tarn – Alexander the Great
    (1926, rev. 1948)

    Edward Anson – Eumenes of Cardia: A Greek Among Macedonians
    (2004)

    Vladislav Zubok – Collapse: The Fall of The Soviet Union
    (2021)

    Roy Medvedev – The Conundrum of Russian Capitalism [Ru]
    (2000)

    Cyrus H. Gordon – Forgotten Scripts
    (1982)

    Ernst Badian – Collected Papers on Alexander the Great, 1958-2007
    (2012)

    Peter Zeihan – Disunited Nations: The Scramble for Power in an Ungoverned World
    (2020)

    Rolf Strootman & Miguel Versluys [eds.] – Persianism in Antiquity
    (2017)

    Edward M. Anson – Alexander’s Heirs: The Age of the Successors
    (2014)

    Peter Green – Alexander of Macedon, 356-323 BC: A Historical Biography
    (1972)

    Arrian – Anabasis
    (100s AD)

    Lionel Pearson – The Early Ionian Historians
    (1939)

    Ktesias – Persica [Surviving Fragments]
    (400s BC)

    Matt Waters – Ctesias’ “Persica” and Its Near Eastern Context
    (2017)

    Peter Zeihan – The End of The World is Only Beginning
    (2022)

    Duncan Head – The Achaemenid Persian Army
    (1992)

    Richard A. Billows – Antigonos the One-Eyed and the Creation of the Hellenistic State
    (1990)

    Susan Sherwin-White & Amélie Kuhrt – From Samarkand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire
    (1993)

    G.G. Aperghis – The Seleucid Royal Economy
    (2000)

    Arnaldo Momigliano – Studies in Historiography
    (1966)

    Hakob Manandyan – Tigranes II and Rome: A New Interpretation based on the Primary Sources [Armenian]
    (1940)

    Jakob Munk Højte [ed.] – Mithridates VI and the Pontic Kingdom
    (2009)

    Edwyn R. Bevan – The House of Seleucus [2 volumes]
    (1902)

    David Stove – On the ‘Enlightenment’
    (2002)

    James J Coyle – Russia’s Interventions in Ethnic Conflicts: The Case of Armenia and Azerbaijan
    (2021)

    Thomas Harrison – Writing Ancient Persia
    (2011)

    Arnaldo Momigliano – The Limits of Hellenization
    (1975)

    Herodotos – The Histories
    (430s BC)

    Arthur M. Eckstein – Mediterranean Anarchy, Interstate War, and the Rise of Rome
    (2006)

    Christian Marek – In the Land of a Thousand Gods: A History of Asia Minor in the Ancient World
    (2010)

    David Graeber – Debt: The First 5’000 Years
    (2011)

    Arkady & Boris Strugatsky – Roadside Picnic
    (1971)

    V.S. Naipaul – Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey
    (1980)

    Pierre Briant – From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire
    (1996)

    John Barton – A History of the Bible: The Book and Its Faiths
    (2019)

    Rush Doshi – The Long Game: China’s Grand Strategy to Displace American Order
    (2021)

    Michael R.J Bonner – The Last Empire of Iran [i.e. Sasanids]
    (2020)

    Vladimir Nabokov – Look at the Harlequins!
    (1973)

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    Thanks, interesting. You seem to have wide-ranging interests, including older books...how is that "Modern Mexico" book from 1914?
    Haven't read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green's Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn't stand the author's persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?

    Regarding books, I've read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).

    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn't pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland). Not going to pretend otherwise, the book hasn't increased my sympathy for West Ukrainians. Russians get a lot of deserved criticism for their chauvinism and Soviet nostalgia (all heroics, no crimes...), but (West) Ukrainian nationalism seems like a mirror image in many ways. The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in "joining Europe" that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke.

    Also read a book by Klaus von Dohnanyi (nonagenarian veteran SPD politician) Nationale Interessen, published in early 2022, at the worst possible time. Author has a lot of blind spots (of course no insight about how utterly malicious his party has become regarding immigration), but imo correct on key issues like the dangers for Europe of letting herself being dragged into a confrontation with Russia and China as pawns and potential battlefield, on the EU commission's misguided drive towards centralization and its negative influence on European economic competitiveness, on Germany's economic interests etc. Of course much of that analysis is moot now, given the probably final break in relations with Russia and the American sabotage of our pipelines.
    Interestingly enough, Orban has read the book and commented favourably on it.

    Replies: @AP, @Yevardian

  640. Sher Singh says:
    @songbird
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Who is this?
     
    Trudeau. I'd post the clip, but I find it too disturbing.

    @QCIC

    Does this mean Hindus do not revere water Buffalo and Bison as they do cows?
     
    Correct. And I neglected to mention steers (male equivalent of cow), as Barbarossa brought up.

    Sher Singh is not wrong about some level of Euro reverence in ancient times. Can be seen in the Milky Way, and the word "galaxy." I quite like that part of the Tain, where Cuchulain comes upon the Morrigan disguised as a hag milking a cow, and, not seeing through her disguise, blesses her in return for the milk, healing the three injuries that he gave her, as she tried to trip him up in battle. (for example, the broken rib, when she was an eel in at the ford)

    But I do wonder what percentage of Hindus would actually eat the meat of such animals, since most seem to be vegetarians or quasi-vegetarians (And isn't that partly about reverence for animal life?) and a lot stick with eggs or if they eat meat eat chicken.

    Am not predicting a successful world-dom by the Sikhs (who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds), but if it ever comes to pass, my fall back plan is to convert to bison-eating. Beefalo is a fuzzy area, and I'd probably stay away from it, with Sikh overlords.

    One worrisome point is cross-contamination in American bison.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefalo

    Don't particularly like the idea of eating water buffalo, as it seems to be very wormy.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Sikhs who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds

    [MORE]

    Thulean is buttmad & should rope.
    Sikhs went from 60% in the 60/70s to 55% despite:

    Disproportionate outmigration
    An increase in migrant workers to about 10% of the pop
    Losses in the insurgency, drugs, targeted abortions etc.

    Ethnic Panjabis in E. Punjab likely 70-75% Sikh & 100 in rural areas now.
    Migrant Biharis are shifting to West UP factories amidst persistent attacks.
    Panjabi Sikhs & Hindus are more unified now than anytime since 1850s.
    The racial divide between Iranic & Aborigine at West/East UP is Indus Valley Era.
    We naturally hate blacks & multiple states have banned migrants, Punjab’s not alone.

    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
    Fertility is a function of female equality & drops a decade after its legal imposition.
    Sikhs are the richest religion in India so the elite tfr’s likely higher than Muslims.

    Sikh militancy is more centralized & politically/religiously established now.
    Nihang Singh Dals (warbands) exist in Delhi/West UP + abroad.
    BJP Punjab is filled with separatists – all that’s missing is early 90s religious courts..

    https://www.tiktok.com/@sanjhapunjab_2australia/video/7198794245413588226

    Punjabi culture dominates India & Sikhs/Hindus are unified in Punjab/West UP.

    Gujurati Hindus asked for a Kirpan ban in Australia after beatings in Melbourne.
    Singhs are in the national parliament with Sabres days after.
    Sikh Sadhus/Brahmins are foremost among their circles.

    Brahmin Singh whose wife, 2 daughters & himself ate Indian Tanks as human bombs
    https://www.1984tribute.com/shaheed-giani-mohar-singh/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Sher Singh


    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
     
    [?] The main thing I recall reading about her was 'The Emergency', economic mismanagement and her forced sterilisation programs.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    , @songbird
    @Sher Singh

    Of course, I was just tweaking you, for you were a bit rude to LatW.

    Know from my George MacDonald Fraser that Sikhs conquered the Punjab, when they comprised only about 1/7 of the pop of the Punjab.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  641. @AP
    @Mikel


    “These people are referred to as zhduny (those who wait). They will refuse evacuation.”

    That is very close to ethnic cleansing in my book. Zhduny or not, they are Ukrainian citizens, most of them elderly people, I presume, who haven’t lifted a finger against anyone
     

    The government has been trying to evacuate them but some are refusing to leave. Out if 80,000 people living there before the war an estimated 6,000 remain. Some out of fear due to poor health and not wanting to move, others out stubbornness, others because they await Russian “liberation.”

    I didn’t read into the comment that the government is forcing any people to stay there. I took it to mean that those who refuse to leave are probably not patriotic. That is, appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. This interpretation is supported by her later comments when she said that by staying, the people are making it harder for the military defenders because they must also care for the civilians who refuse to leave which interferes with the proper defense of the city. So she was appealing to patriotism to get people to leave. If you are a law-abiding patriot you will do the right thing and leave.

    (this btw implies that the government is not interested in civilian human shields; it wants the civilians out of the way so that it can fight properly)

    It seems to be an anti-Ukrainian twist of her words to say that she said she wouldn’t evacuate non-patriots.

    Replies: @Mikel

    appealing to patriotism to get people to leave

    I don’t have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people’s patriotism when she knows that most of these “zhduny” are anything but Ukrainian patriots looks like a very misguided way to motivate them to leave. After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed, it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war. How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn’t want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave “if they are patriots”?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Mikel


    I don’t have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people’s patriotism when she knows that most of these “zhduny” are anything but Ukrainian patriots
     
    A lot of them are elderly and their caregivers, who aren't necessarily pro-Russian but don't want to move around. Like those stubborn older folks who refused warnings to leave and were killed by Mount Saint Helens. Some are pro-Russian.

    After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed
     
    Most, in 2014-2015. Something like 9 last year.

    it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war
     
    The official said people staying in Bakhmut are placing themselves and their families in danger, that their presence prevents the security forces from operating properly because they have to care for the safety of the civilians there, and therefore implores "if you are adequate, law-abiding and patriotic citizens you must evacuate immediately."

    Yes, it's a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn't care about their fate.


    How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn’t want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave “if they are patriots”
     
    Do you expect a Ukrainian official to appeal to Russian nationalism or something to get them to leave? Ultimately it is their choice, as in the case of those guys in Mount Saint Helens. If Ukraine forcibly evacuated them before the final battle tit would be accused of kidnapping or something.

    Replies: @Mikel

  642. @Sher Singh
    @songbird


    Sikhs who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds
     

    Thulean is buttmad & should rope.
    Sikhs went from 60% in the 60/70s to 55% despite:

    Disproportionate outmigration
    An increase in migrant workers to about 10% of the pop
    Losses in the insurgency, drugs, targeted abortions etc.
     
    Ethnic Panjabis in E. Punjab likely 70-75% Sikh & 100 in rural areas now.
    Migrant Biharis are shifting to West UP factories amidst persistent attacks.
    Panjabi Sikhs & Hindus are more unified now than anytime since 1850s.
    The racial divide between Iranic & Aborigine at West/East UP is Indus Valley Era.
    We naturally hate blacks & multiple states have banned migrants, Punjab's not alone.
    --
    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
    Fertility is a function of female equality & drops a decade after its legal imposition.
    Sikhs are the richest religion in India so the elite tfr's likely higher than Muslims.
    --
    Sikh militancy is more centralized & politically/religiously established now.
    Nihang Singh Dals (warbands) exist in Delhi/West UP + abroad.
    BJP Punjab is filled with separatists - all that's missing is early 90s religious courts..

    https://www.tiktok.com/@sanjhapunjab_2australia/video/7198794245413588226

    Punjabi culture dominates India & Sikhs/Hindus are unified in Punjab/West UP.

    Gujurati Hindus asked for a Kirpan ban in Australia after beatings in Melbourne.
    Singhs are in the national parliament with Sabres days after.
    Sikh Sadhus/Brahmins are foremost among their circles.

    Brahmin Singh whose wife, 2 daughters & himself ate Indian Tanks as human bombs
    https://www.1984tribute.com/shaheed-giani-mohar-singh/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.

    [?] The main thing I recall reading about her was ‘The Emergency’, economic mismanagement and her forced sterilisation programs.

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @Yevardian

    Section 498a allows wife to imprison entire husband's clan for allegations of cruelty.
    Non-bailable offence. (detention until trial - often decades away)

    @songbird Let me put it in a more straightforward manner.

    My native district is 25% Sikh yet Upper Caste Hindus are Khalistani.
    Pakistan still bans cattle rustling, female cow slaughter & meat on Tuesday.
    The census category Sikh reflects Kshatriyas - the culture is dominant across N India.

    Indira Gandhi herself was a member of the Nirankari 'Sikh' (heretical) sect.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  643. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, I wonder whether you would be considered atypical, as someone who seems to appreciate modern art (afraid I mostly do not), while simultaneously being able to enjoy old movies and books. (that is, like pre-Hemingway). Or, maybe, the combination is not that uncommon?

    @German_reader
    I recalled the error incorrectly, here is what it said:


    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead
    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION
     

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool

    I may seem to be somewhat expansive in my tastes, but I’m really not. I think that there are a lot of other commenters at this blogsite that outdo me in their appreciation of different eras, and different styles of art. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy reading this blog. As a young man I pursued a bachelors degree in European history. Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture (I actually felt that a lot of the “philosophers” of the area were all about nonsense…crap). 🙂 One can learn to appreciate different forms of art etc; by studying the underlining currents and ideas that are trying to inform the art. Also, I grew up during a very raucous time frame for art in general, 1960’s – 1980’s, encompassing psychedelia and pop art. I guess this is where I originally learned to appreciate these styles too. You and I both seem to appreciate older American film from the 1940’s – 1950’s, and also adventure yarns and biographies of an earlier era too. There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein…..

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture
     
    Had one elective that dealt with European art (think they called it "Western"), and it was funny because it satisfied some horrible diversity requirement, and most such classes were horrible beyond the imagination, but this one was very low-key about it, I think they had one day, were there was a lecture about Islamic art. It felt quasi-illegal, like something on the black market, especially because of the Christian themes.

    One part that I really liked about it was looking at the slides of art. On the tests, you had to remember so many works of art, and my solution was to try to sketch each in about 30 seconds, and then make a sort of flashcard of it. It was a lot of fun, because it looked horrible, but you could recognize them all instantly from the major lines.

    I sometimes think that a lot of people would benefit psychologically, if they were forced to draw. It is not about perfection, but the stress relief that comes from doodling and imagining, and the flow of the line and the hand.

    (I actually felt that a lot of the “philosophers” of the area were all about nonsense…crap).
     
    I'm with you. I find most of philosophy terribly boring. It is only the stuff that seems practical that I like. For example, I think it was Aristotle who said something like, "In order for the archer to hit his mark, he must first aim for it" which actually seems a fairly logical argument against the over-promotion of serendipity and scientism.
    , @Yahya
    @Mr. Hack


    There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein…..
     
    Not sure if I mentioned any art-related books in the previous thread. Perhaps you are referring to my Hemingway post?

    My favorite book on the topic is E.H. Gombrich's Story Of Art. It's a comprehensive though somewhat simplistic overview of global art; with a heavy Eurocentric tilt. The simplicity of the book is a feature, not a bug. Most art criticism tends towards jargon and abstract nonsense; but Gombrich simplified his language to appeal to a mass audience; and with good effect. I was kind of hoping the author would focus on visual arts instead of architecture; but buildings feature prominently throughout the book.

    I am quite impressed with the quality of Ancient Egyptian and Greek art; they were generally equal to and even superior to the art that followed until the Medieval period. Perhaps that's because I'm not a fan of the Roman/Byzantine style (of art, not architecture); but to me these two Egyptian and Greek pieces exceed anything coming out of the West Eurasian world from 0-1000 AD.


    https://i.ibb.co/MNJHpWh/Akhnaton.png

    https://i.ibb.co/Xy5YXNy/Rhodes.png

    There are some sculptures from the Roman period which are roughly similar in refinement and harmony as the Greek sculpture I posted above; but they are derivative of the Hellenic style therefore not as meritorious in my book. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire; there was a regression in workmanship and standards; which were lower than 1000 years prior. The Byzantine Empire developed its own distinctive style but still was heavily derivative of Ancient Greece. European art imo only exceeded Ancient Greek levels during the Medieval period; when Gothic art was pioneered in Northern Europe and Renaissance art developed in Northern Italy by Giotto di Bondone.


    https://i.ibb.co/XycF1Nw/Gothic.png

    https://i.ibb.co/hLf9R4W/Giotto.png

    Replies: @Yahya

  644. @Sher Singh
    @songbird


    Sikhs who seem to be vanishing from their old stomping grounds
     

    Thulean is buttmad & should rope.
    Sikhs went from 60% in the 60/70s to 55% despite:

    Disproportionate outmigration
    An increase in migrant workers to about 10% of the pop
    Losses in the insurgency, drugs, targeted abortions etc.
     
    Ethnic Panjabis in E. Punjab likely 70-75% Sikh & 100 in rural areas now.
    Migrant Biharis are shifting to West UP factories amidst persistent attacks.
    Panjabi Sikhs & Hindus are more unified now than anytime since 1850s.
    The racial divide between Iranic & Aborigine at West/East UP is Indus Valley Era.
    We naturally hate blacks & multiple states have banned migrants, Punjab's not alone.
    --
    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
    Fertility is a function of female equality & drops a decade after its legal imposition.
    Sikhs are the richest religion in India so the elite tfr's likely higher than Muslims.
    --
    Sikh militancy is more centralized & politically/religiously established now.
    Nihang Singh Dals (warbands) exist in Delhi/West UP + abroad.
    BJP Punjab is filled with separatists - all that's missing is early 90s religious courts..

    https://www.tiktok.com/@sanjhapunjab_2australia/video/7198794245413588226

    Punjabi culture dominates India & Sikhs/Hindus are unified in Punjab/West UP.

    Gujurati Hindus asked for a Kirpan ban in Australia after beatings in Melbourne.
    Singhs are in the national parliament with Sabres days after.
    Sikh Sadhus/Brahmins are foremost among their circles.

    Brahmin Singh whose wife, 2 daughters & himself ate Indian Tanks as human bombs
    https://www.1984tribute.com/shaheed-giani-mohar-singh/

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @Yevardian, @songbird

    Of course, I was just tweaking you, for you were a bit rude to LatW.

    Know from my George MacDonald Fraser that Sikhs conquered the Punjab, when they comprised only about 1/7 of the pop of the Punjab.

    • LOL: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @songbird

    True, didn't see this before but I mean controversy drives forum activity.
    I also don't see their white nationalism as much more than a beggar bowl.

    They see themselves as entitled to Western welfare, aid and jobs.
    It's like blacks who hate immigration cuz they lose benefits to them.
    --
    Can't really respect what I see as just European Dalits & it's a natural disgust.

    I don't need Trudeau to hate gays, I became a fascist cuz my 8th grade teacher said not to.

  645. I feel you are confusing different concepts of information and confusing also difference between information and the information about something.

    I am not discussing concepts, I am discussing the most down to earth definition of information: any pattern of distribution of matter or energy detectable by any receptor. All information matches this definition.

    [MORE]

    For DNA, its real existence is some chains of amino acids, the information is the patterns of machine code that it contains and these patterns which has predictable (i.e. the pattern-based) causal relations with the physical world.

    DNA is not a machine code, it is the genetic information that is expressed as codons that is the code. DNA is just a biochemical mean of storing information. Think of it as a hard-drive that you can read from or write into.

    But when we talk about the machine code, this is a discussion about the patterns in the chains of relevant chains of protein in the animal and plant cells. This is information in the normal understanding, as something that can be reduced to the digital code.

    Any pattern is information if it can be detected. If it cannot be detected, then it is not, but only for the one who attempts the detection. It has nothing to do with it being reducible to digital code. And it has nothing to do with it having or not a “meaning” or a “sense” or a “usefulness”. Information is just patterns nothing else. Meaning is interpretation of these patterns, that is even more information, but a pattern being meaningful or useful is not mandatory for it to be information. The subject of information decoding or interpretation is interesting and important, but this is not what I am discussing.

    He had proved a lack of consistency in the formal system (based in axioms). I’m not sure you can say “incomplete of mathematics to express reality” based in this. It’s about incompleteness to axiomatize mathematics.

    If you cannot axiomatize a semantic system, then you cannot use this semantic system to give an exhaustive description of an objective Ontological Reality. Mathematics are our best tool for adequately modeling Reality. Admitting that maths are not axiomatic, is basically admitting that we fail at describing Reality in an entirely objective manner. That is what I was referring to. We swim in a sea of information and we have no true knowledge of what it is objectively.

    I don’t want to speculate, but the relation between the minds and the animals can possibly be nonidentical relations.

    As we all know, we see mainly a predictable causal relations between the minds and the animals. But this isn’t enough to say they are the same things.

    In a world that we cannot describe objectively, all we are left with is speculation. And I have never written that animals and minds are the same thing, quite the opposite actually. Anyway, first one should define what a mind is and what an animal truly is. We go back to the start of the discussion if we attempt doing it. Both are just information. As everything else is…

    It can be trying to make the students of the Zen teacher think to this more universal sense of the mind

    Yes, I have mentioned the Tat tvam asi hinduist formula that is a direct reference to the Brahman / Atman relationship.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/tat-tvam-asi

    However, in Buddhadharma, the Dharmadhatu / Dharmakaya/Trikaya relationship is probably even more refined as conceptualizations of the Absolute and its relation to the conventional/provisional reality because they take into account the fact that we cannot objectively discuss these topics and that anything we come with is approximate for a lack of axiomatization of words as semantic units incapable to truly describe Reality.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmak%C4%81ya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine

    Buddhist thinkers have done a lot to understand what we are and where we are. They have worked hard.

    I haven’t found a more appropriate metaphysics.

    But in the end it is all just words.

    Which are not axiomatic.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    pattern of distribution of matter or energy All information matches this
     
    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not "matter or energy" itself is information.

    DNA is not a machine code, it is the genetic information that is expressed as codons that is the code
     
    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.

    pattern is information if it can be detected. If it cannot be detected, then it is not, but only for the one who attempts the detection. It has nothing to do with it being reducible to digital code.
     
    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).

    Information is just patterns nothing else. Meaning is interpretation of these patterns, that is even more information, but a pattern being meaningful or useful is not mandatory for it to be information. The subject of information decoding or interpretation is interesting and important,
     
    This question is one of the most popular interest of the computer scientists and it relates to the extent computer science is a fundamental science. What happens in the physical world is a really a stable behavior and we interpret this as information. For engineers, you can use any stable system to process information and there is a development of computing.

    that maths are not axiomatic, is basically admitting that we fail at describing Reality in an entirely objective manner.
     
    It's not admitting mathematics is not often axiomatic or related to objectivity. It was problem for the projects to reduce mathematics to consistent formal system. Historically it could have been interpreted to support the people who believed mathematics is like a science describing things in a real world.

    what a mind is and what an animal truly is. We go back to the start of the discussion if we attempt doing it. Both are just information.
     
    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.

    What is a mind? I don't think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn't have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.

    But in the end it is all just words.

    Which are not axiomatic.
     

    It's words based on peoples' experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It's not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It's also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  646. @Sean
    @Yahya

    You are still wrong. And so is this fellow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY

    Vitamin D is limited by multiple mechanisms in the body and skin of white people.

    White skin evolved in the Bronze age invasions, and it was an adaptation by women to the murderously patriarchal Yamanaya culture of the Beaker folk who took over so much of northern Europe. White skin inhibits aggression and stimulates care and provisioning. Like a baby's skin.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Sean

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Yahya

    Try and get your mind off of my nether regions.

    Watson's 'sun and sex' lecture upsets audience - Naturehttps://www.nature.com › nature medicine › news
    by BU MedicalSchool — Nobel Laureate James Watson was keeping quiet last month after reportedly claiming in a lecture that dark-skinned people have a stronger libido than ...
     

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/no-wait-real-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180970950/
    The transition to white skin was in the Neolithic? No, it was in the Bronze Age

    Replies: @songbird

  647. Sher Singh says:
    @Yevardian
    @Sher Singh


    Indira Gandhi was shot a year after imposing feminism & it spawned an insurgency.
     
    [?] The main thing I recall reading about her was 'The Emergency', economic mismanagement and her forced sterilisation programs.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    Section 498a allows wife to imprison entire husband’s clan for allegations of cruelty.
    Non-bailable offence. (detention until trial – often decades away)

    Let me put it in a more straightforward manner.

    My native district is 25% Sikh yet Upper Caste Hindus are Khalistani.
    Pakistan still bans cattle rustling, female cow slaughter & meat on Tuesday.
    The census category Sikh reflects Kshatriyas – the culture is dominant across N India.

    Indira Gandhi herself was a member of the Nirankari ‘Sikh’ (heretical) sect.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

  648. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I may seem to be somewhat expansive in my tastes, but I'm really not. I think that there are a lot of other commenters at this blogsite that outdo me in their appreciation of different eras, and different styles of art. That's one of the reasons I enjoy reading this blog. As a young man I pursued a bachelors degree in European history. Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture (I actually felt that a lot of the "philosophers" of the area were all about nonsense...crap). :-) One can learn to appreciate different forms of art etc; by studying the underlining currents and ideas that are trying to inform the art. Also, I grew up during a very raucous time frame for art in general, 1960's - 1980's, encompassing psychedelia and pop art. I guess this is where I originally learned to appreciate these styles too. You and I both seem to appreciate older American film from the 1940's - 1950's, and also adventure yarns and biographies of an earlier era too. There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein.....

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture

    Had one elective that dealt with European art (think they called it “Western”), and it was funny because it satisfied some horrible diversity requirement, and most such classes were horrible beyond the imagination, but this one was very low-key about it, I think they had one day, were there was a lecture about Islamic art. It felt quasi-illegal, like something on the black market, especially because of the Christian themes.

    One part that I really liked about it was looking at the slides of art. On the tests, you had to remember so many works of art, and my solution was to try to sketch each in about 30 seconds, and then make a sort of flashcard of it. It was a lot of fun, because it looked horrible, but you could recognize them all instantly from the major lines.

    I sometimes think that a lot of people would benefit psychologically, if they were forced to draw. It is not about perfection, but the stress relief that comes from doodling and imagining, and the flow of the line and the hand.

    (I actually felt that a lot of the “philosophers” of the area were all about nonsense…crap).

    I’m with you. I find most of philosophy terribly boring. It is only the stuff that seems practical that I like. For example, I think it was Aristotle who said something like, “In order for the archer to hit his mark, he must first aim for it” which actually seems a fairly logical argument against the over-promotion of serendipity and scientism.

  649. Sher Singh says:
    @songbird
    @Sher Singh

    Of course, I was just tweaking you, for you were a bit rude to LatW.

    Know from my George MacDonald Fraser that Sikhs conquered the Punjab, when they comprised only about 1/7 of the pop of the Punjab.

    Replies: @Sher Singh

    True, didn’t see this before but I mean controversy drives forum activity.
    I also don’t see their white nationalism as much more than a beggar bowl.

    They see themselves as entitled to Western welfare, aid and jobs.
    It’s like blacks who hate immigration cuz they lose benefits to them.

    Can’t really respect what I see as just European Dalits & it’s a natural disgust.

    I don’t need Trudeau to hate gays, I became a fascist cuz my 8th grade teacher said not to.

    • LOL: songbird
  650. German_reader says:
    @Yevardian
    @German_reader

    Here's the list of books I read last year, not counting lazy re-reads (mostly Nabokov, Houllebecq & Chekhov) only counting stuff I read cover-to-cover (some I'd skimmed through before, but only read properly last year), so that takes out a lot of primary sources of dubious literary worth/broader interest, but possessing some crucial historical value, i.e. stuff like Diodoros or Xenophon's Moralia Xenophon's non-historical works (and most of the moralising literature of antiquity generally) may be among the most tedious books ever written ... definitely works I can't imagine anyone ever reading purely for pleasure or fun (lol).

    I really should have written a short paragraph on each of these for myself after finishing them, as doing so would only have taken a tiny fraction of the time it took to read them.
    List is copied from a log file, each was entered in as finished them in the year, but I removed the dates I finished them on, as that's really only of interest as memento to myself.

    Might still write up short summaries of the ones that most stood out.

    Edwin Williamson - The Penguin History of Latin America [2nd ed.]
    (2009)

    R.L. Machugh - Modern Mexico
    (1914)

    Owen Hatherley - Landscapes of Communism: A History Through Buildings
    (2015)

    R. Trevor Davies - Spain in Decline: 1621-1700
    (1957)

    John Davies - A History of Wales [2nd ed.]
    (2007)

    Arnold J. Toynbee - Hellenism
    (1959)

    J.H. Plumb - England in the Eighteenth Century
    (1950)

    Norman Davis - The Hellenistic Kingdoms: Portrait Coins and History
    (1973)

    Glen R. Bugh [ed.] - The Cambridge Companion to the Hellenistic World
    (2006)

    William Woodthorpe Tarn - Alexander the Great
    (1926, rev. 1948)

    Edward Anson - Eumenes of Cardia: A Greek Among Macedonians
    (2004)

    Vladislav Zubok - Collapse: The Fall of The Soviet Union
    (2021)

    Roy Medvedev - The Conundrum of Russian Capitalism [Ru]
    (2000)

    Cyrus H. Gordon - Forgotten Scripts
    (1982)

    Ernst Badian - Collected Papers on Alexander the Great, 1958-2007
    (2012)

    Peter Zeihan - Disunited Nations: The Scramble for Power in an Ungoverned World
    (2020)

    Rolf Strootman & Miguel Versluys [eds.] - Persianism in Antiquity
    (2017)

    Edward M. Anson - Alexander's Heirs: The Age of the Successors
    (2014)

    Peter Green - Alexander of Macedon, 356-323 BC: A Historical Biography
    (1972)

    Arrian - Anabasis
    (100s AD)

    Lionel Pearson - The Early Ionian Historians
    (1939)

    Ktesias - Persica [Surviving Fragments]
    (400s BC)

    Matt Waters - Ctesias' "Persica" and Its Near Eastern Context
    (2017)

    Peter Zeihan - The End of The World is Only Beginning
    (2022)

    Duncan Head - The Achaemenid Persian Army
    (1992)

    Richard A. Billows - Antigonos the One-Eyed and the Creation of the Hellenistic State
    (1990)

    Susan Sherwin-White & Amélie Kuhrt - From Samarkand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire
    (1993)

    G.G. Aperghis - The Seleucid Royal Economy
    (2000)

    Arnaldo Momigliano - Studies in Historiography
    (1966)

    Hakob Manandyan - Tigranes II and Rome: A New Interpretation based on the Primary Sources [Armenian]
    (1940)

    Jakob Munk Højte [ed.] - Mithridates VI and the Pontic Kingdom
    (2009)

    Edwyn R. Bevan - The House of Seleucus [2 volumes]
    (1902)

    David Stove - On the 'Enlightenment'
    (2002)

    James J Coyle - Russia's Interventions in Ethnic Conflicts: The Case of Armenia and Azerbaijan
    (2021)

    Thomas Harrison - Writing Ancient Persia
    (2011)

    Arnaldo Momigliano - The Limits of Hellenization
    (1975)

    Herodotos - The Histories
    (430s BC)

    Arthur M. Eckstein - Mediterranean Anarchy, Interstate War, and the Rise of Rome
    (2006)

    Christian Marek - In the Land of a Thousand Gods: A History of Asia Minor in the Ancient World
    (2010)

    David Graeber - Debt: The First 5'000 Years
    (2011)

    Arkady & Boris Strugatsky - Roadside Picnic
    (1971)

    V.S. Naipaul - Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey
    (1980)

    Pierre Briant - From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire
    (1996)

    John Barton - A History of the Bible: The Book and Its Faiths
    (2019)

    Rush Doshi - The Long Game: China's Grand Strategy to Displace American Order
    (2021)

    Michael R.J Bonner - The Last Empire of Iran [i.e. Sasanids]
    (2020)

    Vladimir Nabokov - Look at the Harlequins!
    (1973)

    Replies: @German_reader

    Thanks, interesting. You seem to have wide-ranging interests, including older books…how is that “Modern Mexico” book from 1914?
    Haven’t read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green’s Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn’t stand the author’s persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?

    Regarding books, I’ve read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).

    [MORE]

    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn’t pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland). Not going to pretend otherwise, the book hasn’t increased my sympathy for West Ukrainians. Russians get a lot of deserved criticism for their chauvinism and Soviet nostalgia (all heroics, no crimes…), but (West) Ukrainian nationalism seems like a mirror image in many ways. The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in “joining Europe” that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke.

    Also read a book by Klaus von Dohnanyi (nonagenarian veteran SPD politician) Nationale Interessen, published in early 2022, at the worst possible time. Author has a lot of blind spots (of course no insight about how utterly malicious his party has become regarding immigration), but imo correct on key issues like the dangers for Europe of letting herself being dragged into a confrontation with Russia and China as pawns and potential battlefield, on the EU commission’s misguided drive towards centralization and its negative influence on European economic competitiveness, on Germany’s economic interests etc. Of course much of that analysis is moot now, given the probably final break in relations with Russia and the American sabotage of our pipelines.
    Interestingly enough, Orban has read the book and commented favourably on it.

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader


    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn’t pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland)
     
    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias (as a leftist he would be disgusted by Bandera's fascism and as a Pole, by the murderousness of Bandera's followers).

    The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in “joining Europe” that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke
     
    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera's fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism. It's bizarre, last time I was in Ukraine I got in some heated discussions with pro-democracy liberal fans of Bandera, they dismissed my claims about his followers' crimes by saying "you are repeating what Soviets say about him." But the point is that such "Banderism" doesn't contradict a sincere wish to join Europe as a democracy.



    Funny thing - at the initiative of some Banderist organization some streets were renamed after my grandfather. He utterly loathed Banderists all his life, talked about them is such a way that when I was a child I assumed that the word "Banderist" was the Ukrainian word for "asshole."

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    Haven’t read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green’s Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn’t stand the author’s persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?
     
    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically? I mostly read Green's popular biography on Alexander on Badian's recommendation, in the middle of a notorious review which trashed Robin-Lane Fox's Alexander biography.
    Green's book didn't stand out or anything but I didn't mind it, I certainly never got the impression he injected contemporary politics into his work or anything like that. Still not comparable to Tarn's prose or Badian or Bosworth's scholarship on Alexander, obviously.

    Anyway, I mentioned Badian before, but I'll say again, his essays on antiquity are still the most enjoyable I've ever read. Since you read Thucydides relatively recently (first time?) I'd mention I finished Badian's Collected Essays on the Pentekontaitia a few weeks ago, he really takes down the still overwhelmingly popular notion that Thucydides was 'the measure of scientific objectivity in history'.
    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists, in that as he wrote about events within the living memory of thousands, it was impossible for him to outright lie about anything, although its demonstrated that Thucyides constantly drew a tendentious narrative through techniques like omission, implying although not actually stating events happening in certain order, artful arrangement of his book's content, and so on.
    Badian has a few respectful criticisms of Ron Unz's published work on the same period as well, incidentally.

    I don't know how deep you've gone into Greco-Roman history, but 'poor sources' are really a genre defining feature. By the standards of the Hellenistic period at least, Eumenes' life isn't that scantily attested, in addition to Plutarch's Eumenes, he also appears sporadically in Plutarch's Demetrios/Alexander, as well as the authors Diodoros, Polyainos, Arrian and Curtius.

    Although Anson does include in his Eumenes book two full closing chapters discussing Greek versus Makedonian ethno-cultural identity, tangentially tying it Eumenes' own navigation of this field. Sounds like filler but they were actually quite good parts of his book in their own right.


    Regarding books, I’ve read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).
     
    I might check it out, although honestly I'd prefer to first read something authoritative on Ukraine's years post 1991 into at least the mid 2010's, a deep look into its post-Soviet collapse, the infighting between its political clans and so on.

    I forgot to mention that 'Modern Mexico' book from 1914 before posting, so I can't write much here. Yes, it was a very curious book, obviously written just before WWI, during the Mexican civil war, which at least until August 1914, was perhaps the number one item on the USA's foreign policy agenda.
    There's actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book's conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at 'the Mexican Mestizo race' sprinkled throughout that I'm sure songbird and Beckow would love.

    I don't visit here that much these days. Maybe you'd be open to sending a private contact, as I'll likely be visiting friends/family in Europe next year.

    I'll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

  651. @German_reader
    @songbird

    Didn't mean to include you in that assessment. But a lot of tedious normie-tier nonsense here, sometimes feels like one could just go to Reddit instead.

    Btw, I have to mention something which is a bit concerning from my pov. I currently have a trial version of Malwarebytes on my pc, and when I open the previous open thread I get a warning that a domain "memesmix.net" has been blocked because of Trojans. I'm pretty sure it must be because of something Bashibuzuk/Ivashka posted, because I also get the warning when looking at his commenting history. Not insinuating in any way this was intentional on his part, but it might explain that strange comment about viruses by (presumably) AltanBakshi. Might be better if he refrained from posting image links to dodgy Russian websites in future...

    Replies: @songbird, @Ivashka the fool

    I only post links to images that I find on the web through a basic web search. The links to documents I post are also found on the web, through a simple search. Usually I post links to Wikipedia or other basic stuff. I don’t recall having posted anything esoteric from “dodgy Russian websites”. And I don’t recall having posted anything from the domain you describe. BTW, I am not the one who posts the most images or pictures on these threads, some commenters basically post an image in every 2nd comment. But yes, I don’t mind, I can certainly stop posting any images even though it is just links to things available on the web, nothing I uploaded from my own computer.

  652. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack, I wonder whether you would be considered atypical, as someone who seems to appreciate modern art (afraid I mostly do not), while simultaneously being able to enjoy old movies and books. (that is, like pre-Hemingway). Or, maybe, the combination is not that uncommon?

    @German_reader
    I recalled the error incorrectly, here is what it said:


    Wrong Post Type; Use Instead
    RETURN TO CORRECT ADMIN SECTION
     

    Replies: @A123, @Mr. Hack, @Ivashka the fool

    I have also seen this error a couple of times. The comment I posted went through despite the error message.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thanks. I still can't tell if (presumably) Altan was joking or not. I almost think he was, but like the kind of joke one would make, after one drank a bottle of vodka.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  653. @Mikel
    @AP


    appealing to patriotism to get people to leave
     
    I don't have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people's patriotism when she knows that most of these "zhduny" are anything but Ukrainian patriots looks like a very misguided way to motivate them to leave. After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed, it doesn't seem to me that there's much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war. How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn't want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave "if they are patriots"?

    Replies: @AP

    I don’t have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people’s patriotism when she knows that most of these “zhduny” are anything but Ukrainian patriots

    A lot of them are elderly and their caregivers, who aren’t necessarily pro-Russian but don’t want to move around. Like those stubborn older folks who refused warnings to leave and were killed by Mount Saint Helens. Some are pro-Russian.

    After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed

    Most, in 2014-2015. Something like 9 last year.

    it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war

    The official said people staying in Bakhmut are placing themselves and their families in danger, that their presence prevents the security forces from operating properly because they have to care for the safety of the civilians there, and therefore implores “if you are adequate, law-abiding and patriotic citizens you must evacuate immediately.”

    Yes, it’s a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn’t care about their fate.

    How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn’t want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave “if they are patriots”

    Do you expect a Ukrainian official to appeal to Russian nationalism or something to get them to leave? Ultimately it is their choice, as in the case of those guys in Mount Saint Helens. If Ukraine forcibly evacuated them before the final battle tit would be accused of kidnapping or something.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @AP


    Yes, it’s a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn’t care about their fate.
     
    As you said at the beginning, it's very simple: ask people to evacuate and leave their patriotism or lack thereof alone, don't muddle the message, especially with that particular target audience.

    I don't think Vereshchuk would ever give any orders to prevent the evacuation of non-patriotic civilians, among other things because how is that sentiment going to be evaluated by anyone? But I do suspect that she prefers any pro-Russians to stay behind.

    Replies: @QCIC

  654. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    I was thinking about the idea that the decline of the Roman empire needed some kind of explanation, and it occurred to me - why? People eventually grow bored with things.

    The energy needed to sustain a complex civilization is immense, not to mention an empire, and after a certain point people will start asking themselves - why? Isn't this rather boring?

    In fact, probably the only thing that kept the Roman empire going for as long as it did was the continuous importation of fresh foreigners who hadn't yet had a chance to get bored with the whole project.

    Likewise, I suspect Anglo America basically got bored with the whole imperial America project around the time of Carter. Carter was openly talking about how Americans need to accept decline and a reduced standard of living, and this probably represented the mood of Anglo America. Anglo Americans were also part of a larger people - Western Europeans - who had been the most powerful in the world for about five hundred years, and whose thinkers and artists were expressing a growing boredom with and disinterest in the whole imperial project at least since the late nineteenth century.

    I think the only reason America continued to be a dynamic imperial power was because people from a group who had not been the world's most powerful for the past five hundred years, and so had not had a chance to grow bored with power yet - Jews - took over from an increasingly apathetic Anglo elite (or at least, injected some resolve into the elite class, as I think Jews are a significant part of the elite but don't dominate it, in my view - a heretical opinion here, I know, lol).

    A few decades later, the importation of fresh foreigners into America from groups who had not yet had a chance to grow bored with power - Asians of various stripes but really, elite elements from every culture in the world, Eastern Europe, Russia, the Middle East, Latin America, etc - added more momentum to the American imperial project and it's ability to remain a dynamic society with a strong will to power.

    An entirely Anglo America would have resembled Europe - having grown bored with power, and apathetic towards ruling, it would be a much poorer and less powerful place. Except, without a powerful America sustaining the post-war order, both Europe and America would be poorer, and the world would be much more dangerous. Asia would likely be torn by periodic conflict, and strongman rule would probably be the norm, severely reducing it's economic dynamism.

    Of course, none of this expresses an opinion on whether imperial projects are good or bad things. I'm sure everyone here knows my opinion lol.

    Reading through George Orwell's essays and letters, he documents the growing apathy and disinterest among the British upper class towards keeping the Empire - not to mention, the intellectual and artistic class gradually turning fiercely against it.

    But it's clear the British lost their empire out of boredom and disinterest in keeping it, as they gained it not through some grand strategic plan but simply by accident as opportunity presented itself.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The British boys who rolled over everyone else for a few hundred years knew exactly what they were doing/ they just didn’t know it would work. Nor did they know for sure it would have worked so well.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Wokechoke

    All bids for power are in the end gambles - or gambits, if you prefer. No one ever knows beforehand if they will work. It's always a risk - which is why the phrase fortune favors the bold was coined.

    I've had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man - that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability. There are plenty of capable people.

    The British who conquered their empire were risk-takers and adventurers - they didn't have a grand plan, they exploited opportunity as it arose, and didn't have too many scruples about their behavior.

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they "lost their nerve" - but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

  655. @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    Thanks, interesting. You seem to have wide-ranging interests, including older books...how is that "Modern Mexico" book from 1914?
    Haven't read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green's Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn't stand the author's persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?

    Regarding books, I've read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).

    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn't pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland). Not going to pretend otherwise, the book hasn't increased my sympathy for West Ukrainians. Russians get a lot of deserved criticism for their chauvinism and Soviet nostalgia (all heroics, no crimes...), but (West) Ukrainian nationalism seems like a mirror image in many ways. The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in "joining Europe" that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke.

    Also read a book by Klaus von Dohnanyi (nonagenarian veteran SPD politician) Nationale Interessen, published in early 2022, at the worst possible time. Author has a lot of blind spots (of course no insight about how utterly malicious his party has become regarding immigration), but imo correct on key issues like the dangers for Europe of letting herself being dragged into a confrontation with Russia and China as pawns and potential battlefield, on the EU commission's misguided drive towards centralization and its negative influence on European economic competitiveness, on Germany's economic interests etc. Of course much of that analysis is moot now, given the probably final break in relations with Russia and the American sabotage of our pipelines.
    Interestingly enough, Orban has read the book and commented favourably on it.

    Replies: @AP, @Yevardian

    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn’t pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland)

    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias (as a leftist he would be disgusted by Bandera’s fascism and as a Pole, by the murderousness of Bandera’s followers).

    The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in “joining Europe” that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke

    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism. It’s bizarre, last time I was in Ukraine I got in some heated discussions with pro-democracy liberal fans of Bandera, they dismissed my claims about his followers’ crimes by saying “you are repeating what Soviets say about him.” But the point is that such “Banderism” doesn’t contradict a sincere wish to join Europe as a democracy.

    [MORE]

    Funny thing – at the initiative of some Banderist organization some streets were renamed after my grandfather. He utterly loathed Banderists all his life, talked about them is such a way that when I was a child I assumed that the word “Banderist” was the Ukrainian word for “asshole.”

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias
     
    He's actually pretty fair and doesn't spare Polish patriotic feelings, there's a lot about anti-Ukrainian discrimination in interwar Poland in the book. He also mentions atrocities against Ukrainian civilians by Polish AK during WW2 and by Polish soldiers in the post-war era. He's even critical of the discourse among Polish Kresowiacy, saying that it's one-sided and not free of vindictiveness.
    Regarding WW2, he even goes so far as saying that not everybody in OUN/UPA was a killer or fanatic, that people may have had various motives for joining it etc. But it's still pretty damning, couldn't be otherwise. Of course all of this should be ancient history by now. But it isn't, not least because part of the Ukrainian diaspora and then political forces in independent Ukraine turned these people into national heroes, made them a key part of their identity etc. (instead of forgetting about them, as might have been more prudent).

    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism.
     
    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.

    Replies: @Ferraro, @AP

  656. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I mean, the whole world is shy compared to Americans
     
    This is something hard to order. Americans are often perceived to have a superficial friendliness and ease (I suspect some of this comes from Hollywood), but does it mean they are more extroverted? Or is it purely presentation? Americans typically need more personal space than most people.

    And how much of my perceived ranking of Japan comes from their scale and production of culture, compared to people like the Finns who have only a small pop?

    I describe Hollywood as being "extroverted." But, to me, this only partly reflects America, and is more purely a reflection of the odd psychology of the people who are drawn there, and who can make a success there. IMO, you really need to be a self-promoter and have a lot of confidence, and the production process probably favors the pace that people with verbal tilt and daring can set.

    Now, if we consider Japanese culture in the same way, it seems quite a bit different. One heavy hitter (more so than here) is video games - something made by nerds for nerds. But quite a lot of their culture is based on manga and light novels, which have a different production process (focused on people who like drawing, in the case of manga) and seemingly much different creators than Hollywood scripts. (I would give the American analogue of Charles Schulz and his creation Charlie Brown - a seemingly very introverted character).

    The final result of this is not just anime, but it enters into a lot of live-action productions.

    BTW, I read a book by a woman involved in one of the movies I mentioned above Anthem of the Heart, and it seemed to me that she was a very strange character. She chronically skipped school because of her fear of it, and it is really hard for me to imagine a Hollywood analogue to that, but there she was an essential part of the creative team and very close to the director of the film.

    But my view of the Japanese is also influenced by street perceptions of them. Haven't been there, but I have seen a lot of videos of them.

    Japanese also have a surprisingly aggressive side that also is very evident in anime.
     
    It is evident in Japanese history as well. I don't think that shyness necessarily equals pacifism.

    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.

    The result of this is that very tough, heroic characters are depicted showing a lot of deep thought and consideration, without needing to show a lot of emotion or speaking a lot of words. It is a kind of chivalry. Courtesy for comrades without verbosity.

    But I do agree Japanese cinema, both anime and regular, offer something Hollywood does not – something of great value that is missing in Hollywood – a sensibility, a spirit, a world attitude, that we need.
     
    Couldn't agree more. I think people overlook Japan too much, and focus on Korea. But even if Japan is not at its cultural peak, neither is Hollywood. And there is a lot made in the past ten years or so that I've really appreciated, and found moving. Stuff that I would almost consider high art, or as much that ever makes it into popular presentations today, and maybe, even one quasi-masterpiece, which though flawed, really impressed me.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.

    Well put. It’s been written about – Japan being a “high context” culture and all that – but I don’t think it’s really been captured that well. It’s a sort of introspection and stillness. As you say, it’s something you “feel” more than you can describe in words – lots of things about Japanese culture really depend on a “feeling”, more than on rational description.

    Even lots of the music in anime, has a different feel that I can’t really put into words – somehow a sense of sadness and yearning is communicated, even though it’s just pop music lol. I’ve heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it’s often distinctive emotional tone.

    Btw, I wouldn’t say Japan is being neglected at all now – it’s having rather a moment, even. Lots of Westerners have moved to Japan and run popular YouTube channels – check out Abroad in Japan for light entertainment. Even PewDiePie just moved to Japan with his wife. And anime is huge in the West now.

    When I was in Japan around 2009, in a week in Tokyo I saw only a few Westerners. Often I was the only white person around. This time, Westerners were everywhere!

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in – I think it’s great, personally, but I doubt it’s going to get extreme.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics? Tell us, please!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I’ve heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it’s often distinctive emotional tone.
     
    I don't know whether it is the fact that I don't know Japanese, but I feel like they have much better songs and music in their shows. And sometimes it is true when they are in English. This is all from one show, a famous one among dissidents Legend of the Galactic Heroes:
    https://youtu.be/ReIFoP8T4q8

    https://youtu.be/Sken4RHX9FY

    https://youtu.be/Hryo6H57y6I

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in
     
    Oh, I've definitely gotten a sense of this, and it is more than just whites. I don't like it at all. I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice. On the whole, undoubtedly there is more damage directed the other way, in both Europe in America, but I still don't like to see it.

    Particularly alarming to me are street interviews where they sometimes find Japanese who seem to be repeating woke talking points. And of course, Japan is aging rapidly, though not so rapidly as SK or China will.

    My ideal vision of Japan would be the one, where they followed a foreign man around, and young foreign man had to run like heck, and turn off the road,a and wade streams, and slide down hills to lose them, and they still found and followed him, even though he had the time of his life doing it. Mr. Hack knows what I am talking about.

    The Japan that Swift populated with talking horses.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics?
     
    Well, I'll embarrass myself because I think the stuff with the broadest appeal are romances. I think it is about the effort that goes into it. They understand the commercial appeal, and so that is where they put their effort, and try to make something sophisticated. IMO, it is about getting the girls to go to the theater, but so the guys won't mind it so much.

    Probably, you have heard of Your Name 2016. Kimi no Na wa It was considered a big hit.
    https://youtu.be/xU47nhruN-Q

    Might be seen as problematic by some because the gimmick of the plot involves accidental body-swapping between a girl and boy. But it is a pretty wholesome movie on the whole. I consider it easily better than any Western animated film I have seen in the past ten years. I though WALL-E wasn't so bad, but that was from 2008.

    One highlight of it is representative of a lot of Japanese culture as a whole, is the Japanese appreciation for both place (as in settings that are inspired by actual places), and tradition. In the movie, the urban boy is connected to the rural maiden, and she is a shrine maiden, or part time, for a ceremony. It is a very good-looking animation, IMO.

    Harder to recommend a show because there is more of a time commitment involved even for a short one, and I think you need a certain tolerance for it. There are a lot Japanese tropes that may not sit well with Westerners, like the mixed tone. Points of wackball comedy, combined with tragedy, or the animation that sometimes does look very weird.

    Or points where they may see it as too perverted - though I honestly think that this is one of the endearing things about Japanese culture - it is that the perverted characters are often chaste. A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl's skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive. It is bawdy but doesn't trivialize sex because of the chasteness. At least certain things are like this (one can't constrain the whole, as the Japanese are famously perverted), but what is like this, is totally unlike Hollywood, which always trivializes sex but never satirizes it.

    But, anyway, there was one anime series that I thought was pretty good. Immediate and funny caveat: I though the faces were creepy-looking, too-big eyes, and almost stopped after the first episode. (I think that might supposed to be the type of art which specifically appeals to girls - and has interesting HBD implications)

    This is the one I would call a "quasi-masterpiece." In some ways, I consider it almost to be high art, but with a lot of caveats and flaws in the piece. I was almost going to try to recommend it to LatW because I think it really has some endearing qualities that she might appreciate. But I don't feel like I can without much knowledge of her capacity to tolerate anime or even TV shows because I feel you can only judge it and get a sense of it about maybe after the first 3-4 episodes.

    At its heart, and what I like the most about it is seems a love letter to classical music. In this sense, it has a very Euro feel to it, and feels like a celebration of European culture. It almost feels like something Europeans might have made at one time, but I would say can't make now, or at least people in Western Europe would feel that they can't.

    I think there are even parts of it that would strongly appeal to you. On a certain level, the series extols spontaneity, best represented by the sickly girl character, who knows each moment could be her last and plays her violin very emotively, knowing the judges may dislike it, but wanting to reach the audience. It is certainly a very emotional series. Some may feel it manipulative or maudlin. I like its use of light, to counteract the depression of the main boy character.

    And it is not hippyish - part of it is about hard work and the thrill of competition, and about the thrill of the possibility of a performance that moves someone in the audience. This is part of what I like about it - it seems to inspire one to think of art, and this is why I would almost call it "high art." (for the life of me, I cannot think of anything similar)

    The series is a tragic romance. Not for everyone.

    One part I did find hard to watch. (That involves the boy having negative memories of his piano lessons) Of course, the main plot one can see coming from a mile away, but I found one part incidental to it (that is along the way) really poignant and almost breathtakingly beautiful in its animation. The scene must have been rotoscoped, I think? But I am not sure. (I would not want to spoil it, but I felt it related to mortality in a very symbolic way, in the way of life and action and youth, it was exactly when the girl and boy were playing music together on the same stage and the context that the series gives that one fleeting moment makes it seem like a flower in bloom - it really is poignantly beautiful)

    And in a way, it is a very optimistic movie, despite being sad and partly about depression. And depicts what the Japanese might see as normal, but which in 2023 would strike a Westerner as utopian. A society where a five year old girl can navigate her way alone from a concert hall to her parent's bakery.

    I'm afraid that the trailer for it makes it look quite bad (faces look a bit creepy at times) and even woke (a line in it I do not remember and am pretty sure wasn't in it), but I'll post this piece of music from it, which I think is original and good:
    https://youtu.be/GEYepRwYKHw

    The series is called Your Lie in April (2013).

    In way, the main plot of it echoes some of the themes I mentioned earlier about shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese. Big highlight is the music and how the performer is shown as desiring to move the audience. And how the girl moves the boy, and how he tries to move her. 22 episodes long, so a time commitment.

    But I genuinely thought it was moving.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  657. @Wokechoke
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    The British boys who rolled over everyone else for a few hundred years knew exactly what they were doing/ they just didn’t know it would work. Nor did they know for sure it would have worked so well.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    All bids for power are in the end gambles – or gambits, if you prefer. No one ever knows beforehand if they will work. It’s always a risk – which is why the phrase fortune favors the bold was coined.

    I’ve had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man – that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability. There are plenty of capable people.

    The British who conquered their empire were risk-takers and adventurers – they didn’t have a grand plan, they exploited opportunity as it arose, and didn’t have too many scruples about their behavior.

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they “lost their nerve” – but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The British lost their empire, some said, because they “lost their nerve” – but, I think, they just got bored with it.
     
    There is something in that, didn't someone say at some point that Britain acquired an empire in a state of absentmindedness and lost it in the same way? People often refer to the lack of a British imperial vision (compared to Portugal, France, Spain etc.), one had to be improvised after the fact and it died in the years following WW1.

    I would add the factors of competition from more powerful rising rivals (USA, Germany, Russian Empire/USSR, Japan), plus the impact on the colonies of British activity. Once mass politics started to arrive in India, British rule wasn't going to be sustainable.

    More recently you can get the feeling that Britain became not just bored and lethargic about having an empire, but ambiguous about being a country in general. OTOH the spirit of Bobus Higgins still lives as referred to earlier in the thread, and modern Bobuses haven't lost their enthusiasm for marketing sausage, so it hasn't all gone.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I’ve had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man – that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability.
     
    I assume these powerful people appreciate this highfalutin language of yours - they like everything which disguises the nature of their power, which you do with expressions like "people just got bored etc". You are often like a priest protecting the powers, constantly reverting things to metaphysical level, be it real or not.

    However, what you forgot to say is that when these people take risk - any risk other than exercising their own bodies - they are protected from consequences of this risk taking. They almost never become poor etc. It is as someone told me once: "If you know the right people, you will get money for your new enterprise even if you have failed 5 times before.". This is obviously not an offer for everyone in the world, though.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Wokechoke
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Teh AK47 and RPG7 made keeping an empire too bloody. there is still boiling resentment about the USSR lavishing niggers with such advanced weapons they could never have manufactured by themselves.

  658. @Dmitry
    @Yahya

    Why are you posting to me from texts of pseudoscience anthropology? You know you can go to a bookshop and read the textbooks written by the scientists in the relevant areas.

    I and Bashibuzuk are just beginning discussion in this forum of real science like the anti-gravity technology our ancient Russian ancestors used to construct the pyramids.

    @AP
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-209/#comment-5818081


    diverse dog breeds created through unnatural human intervention, to natural wolves who have changed much less and more slowly
     
    It's not a relevant discussion, they are selectively bred using inbreeding. The animal is not necessarily changing in many areas, but more unusual animals in the population are being selected for a particular aspect which the humans noticed.

    The only humans with this extent of circular inbreeding for some number of generations would be like Hapsburgs and there is no selective breeding introduced to this cycle. Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).


    complex economic and social relationships can be expected to have evolved much more quickly in only a few thousand years than had their ancestors who had engaged in the same more natural Hunter-gatherer

     

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age. And main population bottlenecks were thousands of years ago.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.
     
    It's just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history, or 500 vs 1000,000,000,000 generations for the pre-human evolution.

    Replies: @AP

    Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).

    By the natural environment but not by the man-made environment.

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age.

    This is only true for the last 100+ years.

    But there were enormous opportunities for changes in the thousands of years since agriculture, and in the hundreds of years since urbanization and larger towns.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    It’s just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history,

    Now multiply the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.

    70,000 years ago there may have only been 10,000 people.

    12,000 years ago there were an estimated 2 million people. One generation 5000 years ago was the equivalent of 200 generations 70,000 years ago, in terms of the odds of a helpful mutation appearing.

    5000 years ago there were 45 million.

    And then consider the radically different environment, that would encourage the spread of mutations that would help in the new environment but that would have been useless in the old one (and so would not spread). People who had the same lifestyle for 10,000 years would not change much during that time, because any mutations would be less likely to be particularly helpful.

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.
     
    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment. Of course, dominant alleles are always selected, even if they are detrimental, as long as they are not lethal.

    Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations. Absent a mutagen, the rate of mutation remains rather constant. And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good (no allele can be universally useful).

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies. It was hardly an entirely positive trade-in.

    A wolf has a 10 - 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature. An average modern human has around 10% lower brain volume than a Paleolithic megafauna hunter. A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia.

    In most places where the Western civilization has reached we can hardly find a primeval forest, let alone a truly mature ecosystem that has reached its climax (measures as maximum diversity of species and lowest entropy overall). The natural complexity has been greatly reduced by the civilization. And so has also been the potential of future evolution, because much genetic diversity has been lost.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings. We have undergone self-domestication, as wolves would if they learned themselves playing tricks and running after balls thrown at them generations after generations.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were ?

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db377.htm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/25/depression-and-anxiety-double-in-youth-compared-to-pre-pandemic/

    https://www.science.org/content/article/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity

    These are also the results of civilization. Perhaps we should not cherry pick and only choose what is positive about it. It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations. It was massive degradation of natural environment and squandering of natural ressources. Civilization was a trade-off with gains and losses to it. Perhaps the more it goes, and the more gains will be reduced and losses become apparent. It might well lead to humanity's demise.

    12 000 years is a tiny speck on a biological time-frame.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.

    It was good for a time, until it wasn't.

    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.

    Before the overdose.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.
     
    Evolutionary pressure is described in terms of the probability chains. Increasing diversity of the genes by expanding the size of the population in the horizontal way, without the evolutionary pressure which accumulates similar mutation across the generations in the vertical way, would not be increasing rate of evolution, as you know with selective breeding examples.

    Selective breeding requires reduction of the genetic diversity according to the selected mutation (modeling of population bottlenecks) and inbreeding of the animals, with the repeated selective pressure on each generation. This increases rate of change and separation of a branch (in the probability meaning) by accumulating similar mutations with each generation.

    It's less mutations which are lacking supply in the population, but the selection pressure across generations that allows a new branch to form.

    Although it's interesting to say that increasing population will increase the number of random mutations horizontally, as you know with e.g. coronavirus the cause of the virus evolution is not increasing numbers of mutations, but selection pressure of the immune system and environmen.


    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.
     
    The mutations return to the wider population, without the population bottlenecks. It means increasing genetic diversity in the population, but without selection pressure it doesn't accumulate similar mutations.

    In evolution, mutation in the horizontal sense of the single generation, is like beginning of the branch. The development of the branch is when there is a similar pressure for many generations which accumulate many similar mutations.

  659. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn’t pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland)
     
    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias (as a leftist he would be disgusted by Bandera's fascism and as a Pole, by the murderousness of Bandera's followers).

    The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in “joining Europe” that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke
     
    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera's fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism. It's bizarre, last time I was in Ukraine I got in some heated discussions with pro-democracy liberal fans of Bandera, they dismissed my claims about his followers' crimes by saying "you are repeating what Soviets say about him." But the point is that such "Banderism" doesn't contradict a sincere wish to join Europe as a democracy.



    Funny thing - at the initiative of some Banderist organization some streets were renamed after my grandfather. He utterly loathed Banderists all his life, talked about them is such a way that when I was a child I assumed that the word "Banderist" was the Ukrainian word for "asshole."

    Replies: @German_reader

    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias

    He’s actually pretty fair and doesn’t spare Polish patriotic feelings, there’s a lot about anti-Ukrainian discrimination in interwar Poland in the book. He also mentions atrocities against Ukrainian civilians by Polish AK during WW2 and by Polish soldiers in the post-war era. He’s even critical of the discourse among Polish Kresowiacy, saying that it’s one-sided and not free of vindictiveness.
    Regarding WW2, he even goes so far as saying that not everybody in OUN/UPA was a killer or fanatic, that people may have had various motives for joining it etc. But it’s still pretty damning, couldn’t be otherwise. Of course all of this should be ancient history by now. But it isn’t, not least because part of the Ukrainian diaspora and then political forces in independent Ukraine turned these people into national heroes, made them a key part of their identity etc. (instead of forgetting about them, as might have been more prudent).

    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism.

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Ferraro
    @German_reader

    Ukrainians in the past who fought for independence for Ukraine under extreme adversarial conditions, should be seen as heroes by Ukrainians today. This is normal and healthy. This idea that nations shouldn't have heroes who did bad things, whether those bad things were necessary or unnecessary, or even real or not, is preposterous considering human history. The Mongolians are not abandoning Genghis Khan's memory.

    , @AP
    @German_reader


    "Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism."

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.
     
    It's not that different in terms of both peoples not celebrating the evils of Bandera or Stalin and instead focusing on a semi-mythologized image of each man.

    But it's very different in terms of what they celebrate about him.

    Russians who support Stalin for the most part don't support gulags, mass executions, and murdering millions by famine. Indeed, they often deny or minimize that these things were done. They support Stalin out of a mix of nostalgia for the Soviet Union, glorious military victory, that under him they lived in a feared and respected Great Power.

    Ukrainians who support Bandera don't support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement's anti-colonial national liberation against foreign imperialists and consider that his struggle made later democracy possible. Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    That both groups mythologize and support odious figures is true (though Stalin was much worse than Bandera).

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William, @German_reader

  660. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I may seem to be somewhat expansive in my tastes, but I'm really not. I think that there are a lot of other commenters at this blogsite that outdo me in their appreciation of different eras, and different styles of art. That's one of the reasons I enjoy reading this blog. As a young man I pursued a bachelors degree in European history. Besides the main topics, I was keen on taking a lot of classes that dealt with European art and culture (I actually felt that a lot of the "philosophers" of the area were all about nonsense...crap). :-) One can learn to appreciate different forms of art etc; by studying the underlining currents and ideas that are trying to inform the art. Also, I grew up during a very raucous time frame for art in general, 1960's - 1980's, encompassing psychedelia and pop art. I guess this is where I originally learned to appreciate these styles too. You and I both seem to appreciate older American film from the 1940's - 1950's, and also adventure yarns and biographies of an earlier era too. There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein.....

    Replies: @songbird, @Yahya

    There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein…..

    Not sure if I mentioned any art-related books in the previous thread. Perhaps you are referring to my Hemingway post?

    My favorite book on the topic is E.H. Gombrich’s Story Of Art. It’s a comprehensive though somewhat simplistic overview of global art; with a heavy Eurocentric tilt. The simplicity of the book is a feature, not a bug. Most art criticism tends towards jargon and abstract nonsense; but Gombrich simplified his language to appeal to a mass audience; and with good effect. I was kind of hoping the author would focus on visual arts instead of architecture; but buildings feature prominently throughout the book.

    I am quite impressed with the quality of Ancient Egyptian and Greek art; they were generally equal to and even superior to the art that followed until the Medieval period. Perhaps that’s because I’m not a fan of the Roman/Byzantine style (of art, not architecture); but to me these two Egyptian and Greek pieces exceed anything coming out of the West Eurasian world from 0-1000 AD.


    [MORE]

    There are some sculptures from the Roman period which are roughly similar in refinement and harmony as the Greek sculpture I posted above; but they are derivative of the Hellenic style therefore not as meritorious in my book. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire; there was a regression in workmanship and standards; which were lower than 1000 years prior. The Byzantine Empire developed its own distinctive style but still was heavily derivative of Ancient Greece. European art imo only exceeded Ancient Greek levels during the Medieval period; when Gothic art was pioneered in Northern Europe and Renaissance art developed in Northern Italy by Giotto di Bondone.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Yahya

    I'll write another post on architecture and philosophy tomorrow. Too tired now.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  661. @Yahya
    @Mr. Hack


    There were one or two books mentioned during the previous thread, I think by Yahya, that were in this vein…..
     
    Not sure if I mentioned any art-related books in the previous thread. Perhaps you are referring to my Hemingway post?

    My favorite book on the topic is E.H. Gombrich's Story Of Art. It's a comprehensive though somewhat simplistic overview of global art; with a heavy Eurocentric tilt. The simplicity of the book is a feature, not a bug. Most art criticism tends towards jargon and abstract nonsense; but Gombrich simplified his language to appeal to a mass audience; and with good effect. I was kind of hoping the author would focus on visual arts instead of architecture; but buildings feature prominently throughout the book.

    I am quite impressed with the quality of Ancient Egyptian and Greek art; they were generally equal to and even superior to the art that followed until the Medieval period. Perhaps that's because I'm not a fan of the Roman/Byzantine style (of art, not architecture); but to me these two Egyptian and Greek pieces exceed anything coming out of the West Eurasian world from 0-1000 AD.


    https://i.ibb.co/MNJHpWh/Akhnaton.png

    https://i.ibb.co/Xy5YXNy/Rhodes.png

    There are some sculptures from the Roman period which are roughly similar in refinement and harmony as the Greek sculpture I posted above; but they are derivative of the Hellenic style therefore not as meritorious in my book. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire; there was a regression in workmanship and standards; which were lower than 1000 years prior. The Byzantine Empire developed its own distinctive style but still was heavily derivative of Ancient Greece. European art imo only exceeded Ancient Greek levels during the Medieval period; when Gothic art was pioneered in Northern Europe and Renaissance art developed in Northern Italy by Giotto di Bondone.


    https://i.ibb.co/XycF1Nw/Gothic.png

    https://i.ibb.co/hLf9R4W/Giotto.png

    Replies: @Yahya

    I’ll write another post on architecture and philosophy tomorrow. Too tired now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    I enjoy reading all of your posts, but had in mind "An Egyptian Soldier" and "Martyred Armenia" that you mentioned within the previous thread. You have a good writing style that lends itself especially well when reviewing books and films.

    Replies: @Yahya

  662. @AP
    @Mikel


    I don’t have the linguistic knowledge to fully understand what she was trying to say but appealing to those people’s patriotism when she knows that most of these “zhduny” are anything but Ukrainian patriots
     
    A lot of them are elderly and their caregivers, who aren't necessarily pro-Russian but don't want to move around. Like those stubborn older folks who refused warnings to leave and were killed by Mount Saint Helens. Some are pro-Russian.

    After 9 years of shelling of civilians areas in Donbas with 3k+ killed
     
    Most, in 2014-2015. Something like 9 last year.

    it doesn’t seem to me that there’s much of a twist in interpreting this kind of language as another example of the mentality that led to this war
     
    The official said people staying in Bakhmut are placing themselves and their families in danger, that their presence prevents the security forces from operating properly because they have to care for the safety of the civilians there, and therefore implores "if you are adequate, law-abiding and patriotic citizens you must evacuate immediately."

    Yes, it's a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn't care about their fate.


    How is an elderly person who considers him/herself Russian and doesn’t want to leave their place in Bakhmut going to react when he/she hears that someone in Kiev is asking them to leave “if they are patriots”
     
    Do you expect a Ukrainian official to appeal to Russian nationalism or something to get them to leave? Ultimately it is their choice, as in the case of those guys in Mount Saint Helens. If Ukraine forcibly evacuated them before the final battle tit would be accused of kidnapping or something.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Yes, it’s a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn’t care about their fate.

    As you said at the beginning, it’s very simple: ask people to evacuate and leave their patriotism or lack thereof alone, don’t muddle the message, especially with that particular target audience.

    I don’t think Vereshchuk would ever give any orders to prevent the evacuation of non-patriotic civilians, among other things because how is that sentiment going to be evaluated by anyone? But I do suspect that she prefers any pro-Russians to stay behind.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Mikel

    It's a war. Don't over think everything. Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.

    Replies: @Mikel

  663. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

    LMAO – so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the “landlocked PLC ” garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake “ukrainian” act is the fake doctor act – you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your “life”- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn “overperforming”). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn’t mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem…..and reputation for it that it does

    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems …you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia…….than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy – the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural – so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger…..but it isn’t. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn’t, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990’s than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people…….Galicia has next to none of this…..its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD’s are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Gerard1234

    I didn't know that there were still Jews in Lvov

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard1234

    , @QCIC
    @Gerard1234

    Can someone send these women some condoms?

    I nominate "Mister Hack & AP" to address this problem.

    Yes, I'm serious. Going forward, help keep these girls disease free (all provinces, all girls, no exceptions). Help them turn their lives around. Don't forget, this was going on long before the SMO. I know you care, so do more. Save these slavic wonders.

    Stop yakking on internet forums and luring young men to their deaths with 'Slava Ukraine' siren songs. Your new slogan, I admit it is rough: "Keep the pussy clean!" [Translated to Ukrainian or Russian, whichever suits the message best.]

    Stop the regional, internecine fighting. You guys are smarter than most of the players on the ground in Ukraine, don't steer them into the globalist trap. You can be a voice of reason, not of blood.

    It is late, but maybe not too late.

    , @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard1234

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Gerard1234

    Good luck on your speaking tour (unfortunately, confined only to Russia), as well as your concert travels! Unfortunately, as you well know, Europe and North America would be cut off for you to dazzle the audiences with your wit and artistic expression. Maybe it's better this way, as Russia needs at least a few of its most talented obscurantists to stay put and feed Russia's insatiable need for carnival antics.

    https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/05/19/arts/19LIBERACE1_SPAN/19LIBERACE1-superJumbo.jpg
    Geraldina's tales of the absurd. :-)

  664. @AnonfromTN
    @Mikel


    will shrewd Lukashenko be willing to risk much more
     
    Luka is wily, or, to be exact, he is best described by my grandma’s phrase in Ukrainian “дурний, та хитрий” (stupid, but cunning). For many years he tried to maneuver between the RF, China, and the EU to maximize goodies Belarus gets from all sides (Belarus cannot live as well as it does on its own resources). However, the West made a strategic mistake in Belarus: instead of cultivating Luka and nudging him towards pro-Western position, the West attempted a color revolution against him. Luka is not a coward, like Ukrainian Yanuk, he did not surrender before the battle was lost, but fought back vigorously and prevailed. Net result: Western morons pushed him into Putin’s camp. Today Putin firmly holds his balls in his hand and can squeeze as hard as he needs. What’s more, now Luka has nothing to loose: Belarus is already under a bunch of idiotic Western sanctions. So, if Putin wants Belarus to join the RF in Ukraine, he is going to get his wish. Whether he wants it is another question.

    Replies: @Mikel, @Gerard1234

    That’s all true………but Banderastan effectively supporting the colour revolution/Polish Op to overthrow him and (pointlessly and in infamous historical level stupidity) joining in with the west and placing sanctions on Belarus after the fake forced landing of the plane stunt, made Luka do something he was never, EVER going to do, whatever the relationship with Russia………allow SMO attack from Belarus territory and the continuous missile strikes.

  665. @Gerard1234
    @AP


    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

     

    LMAO - so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the "landlocked PLC " garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake "ukrainian" act is the fake doctor act - you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your "life"- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn "overperforming"). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn't mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem.....and reputation for it that it does


    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems ...you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia.......than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy - the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural - so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger.....but it isn't. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn't, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990's than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people.......Galicia has next to none of this.....its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD's are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack

    I didn’t know that there were still Jews in Lvov

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Greasy William

    Even though it's Ukraine, number of Jews or people with Jewish roots in Lvov/Lviv will probably be very low.

    There is a Jewish school in Lvov/Lviv with 58 students (numbers like a minischool).
    http://www.ort.org.ua/en/schools-and-centers/lviv/gymnasium-brothers-of-israel-acheinu-lauder/

    You can see Israel doesn't build a culture centre in Lvov. They build the culture centres in Kharkov, Kiev, Odessa or Moldova.

    For comparison, Kiev and Eastern Ukraine will have large numbers of people with Jewish roots even after Ukraine has been the country with the most immigrants to Israel for the last decade of all countries in the world.

    , @Gerard1234
    @Greasy William


    I didn't that there were still Jews in Lvov
     
    Always were some there, even in administration jobs during Soviet era. Russia's richest man is (I think) a Lvov Jew.

    Poles had registration /certificate guaranteeing them a home when they were moved back to Poland from Lvov by Stalin. Jews from the sizeable pre-war population, of course were genocided out of existence in Lvov. Poles and Jews then had their houses given to others - mainly ukronazis.
    So what we have now is a situation that's fair for Poles, but not fair for Jews - who have Galician Ukronazis squatting in their families homes in Lvov for 80 years.

    Squatter (and maybe parasite) is the accurate terminology for these Ukronazis - who were effectively banned from living and owning in Lvov before Stalin incorporated Galicia into USSR.

    Sex tourism is obviously the main connection by any Westerners of Lvov, but the unresolved property/compensation issue for Jews, plus the scale and infamous sadism murders their families (mainly women and children) were victims of- gives Lvov some extra attention from Jewish diasporas
  666. @Mikel
    @AP


    Yes, it’s a hell of twist to claim that her speech means that she wants non-patriots to stay and doesn’t care about their fate.
     
    As you said at the beginning, it's very simple: ask people to evacuate and leave their patriotism or lack thereof alone, don't muddle the message, especially with that particular target audience.

    I don't think Vereshchuk would ever give any orders to prevent the evacuation of non-patriotic civilians, among other things because how is that sentiment going to be evaluated by anyone? But I do suspect that she prefers any pro-Russians to stay behind.

    Replies: @QCIC

    It’s a war. Don’t over think everything. Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @QCIC


    Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.
     
    Absolutely. Which is why trying to understand whatever leads people to engage in such an activity is hardly ever a wasted effort.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  667. @QCIC
    @Mikel

    It's a war. Don't over think everything. Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.

    Absolutely. Which is why trying to understand whatever leads people to engage in such an activity is hardly ever a wasted effort.

    • Agree: QCIC
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel


    whatever leads people to engage in such an activity
     
    One way or another, most wars can be reduced to first and foremost egotism, then violence and finally ignorance.
  668. @Gerard1234
    @AP


    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

     

    LMAO - so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the "landlocked PLC " garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake "ukrainian" act is the fake doctor act - you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your "life"- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn "overperforming"). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn't mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem.....and reputation for it that it does


    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems ...you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia.......than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy - the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural - so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger.....but it isn't. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn't, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990's than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people.......Galicia has next to none of this.....its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD's are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack

    Can someone send these women some condoms?

    I nominate “Mister Hack & AP” to address this problem.

    Yes, I’m serious. Going forward, help keep these girls disease free (all provinces, all girls, no exceptions). Help them turn their lives around. Don’t forget, this was going on long before the SMO. I know you care, so do more. Save these slavic wonders.

    Stop yakking on internet forums and luring young men to their deaths with ‘Slava Ukraine’ siren songs. Your new slogan, I admit it is rough: “Keep the pussy clean!” [Translated to Ukrainian or Russian, whichever suits the message best.]

    Stop the regional, internecine fighting. You guys are smarter than most of the players on the ground in Ukraine, don’t steer them into the globalist trap. You can be a voice of reason, not of blood.

    It is late, but maybe not too late.

    • Agree: Not Raul, Gerard1234
  669. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    How is your library project going? Does it look like this yet?

     
    https://ace.mu.nu/archives/021223-Library.jpg
     


    animal rights groups that sneaks into factory farms and liberates the animals ... deploy when they are doing a dairy farm operation.
     
    I do not think he has a problem with dairy.

    One could liberate beef cattle. Except, where would they go? Small critters like mink or lab mice vanish into the wild where they are eaten by wolves and other predators. Steer would simply wander around until recapture.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I’m sure he has no problem with dairy, but modern production has an extremely quick turnover/cull rate. Modern dairy production is dependent on incessant cow slaughter.

    Modern meat and dairy is a nasty business with the septic veneer of machine efficiency.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Barbarossa

    Sure, farm animals would die if they were released into the wild but there is no reason to not treat them like animals instead of meat production units.

    The library goes okay, though on the backburner. It's been enclosed and usable for the last few months but I have about 48 linear feet of built in black walnut bookcases to finish before it's properly done.

    I've been focusing more on walnut railings and newel posts with wrought iron spindles for my upstairs.

    It seems like getting projects done on one's own house while one lives in it continues to be a slow slog!

    Thanks for asking though!

    Replies: @songbird

    , @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    Yup. Asked a Brahmin & this is what he said:


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1076533185762041908/image.png

    Replies: @Barbarossa

  670. @Mikel
    @QCIC


    Huge explosions, fire, blood, obscene reality everywhere.

    Best avoided if possible.
     
    Absolutely. Which is why trying to understand whatever leads people to engage in such an activity is hardly ever a wasted effort.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    whatever leads people to engage in such an activity

    One way or another, most wars can be reduced to first and foremost egotism, then violence and finally ignorance.

  671. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird


    I wanted to articulate something related to shyness which is discrete from timidity and which I feel is shown more broadly in Japanese culture, but it is something very difficult to describe. I can only say that I think Japanese dialogue is often less expository and shows much more subtlety and hidden meaning. It is like they expect the audience to be introverted and realize that a lot of thought and indeed communication is never put into words.
     
    Well put. It's been written about - Japan being a "high context" culture and all that - but I don't think it's really been captured that well. It's a sort of introspection and stillness. As you say, it's something you "feel" more than you can describe in words - lots of things about Japanese culture really depend on a "feeling", more than on rational description.

    Even lots of the music in anime, has a different feel that I can't really put into words - somehow a sense of sadness and yearning is communicated, even though it's just pop music lol. I've heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it's often distinctive emotional tone.

    Btw, I wouldn't say Japan is being neglected at all now - it's having rather a moment, even. Lots of Westerners have moved to Japan and run popular YouTube channels - check out Abroad in Japan for light entertainment. Even PewDiePie just moved to Japan with his wife. And anime is huge in the West now.

    When I was in Japan around 2009, in a week in Tokyo I saw only a few Westerners. Often I was the only white person around. This time, Westerners were everywhere!

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in - I think it's great, personally, but I doubt it's going to get extreme.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics? Tell us, please!

    Replies: @songbird

    I’ve heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it’s often distinctive emotional tone.

    I don’t know whether it is the fact that I don’t know Japanese, but I feel like they have much better songs and music in their shows. And sometimes it is true when they are in English. This is all from one show, a famous one among dissidents Legend of the Galactic Heroes:

    [MORE]

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in

    Oh, I’ve definitely gotten a sense of this, and it is more than just whites. I don’t like it at all. I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice. On the whole, undoubtedly there is more damage directed the other way, in both Europe in America, but I still don’t like to see it.

    Particularly alarming to me are street interviews where they sometimes find Japanese who seem to be repeating woke talking points. And of course, Japan is aging rapidly, though not so rapidly as SK or China will.

    My ideal vision of Japan would be the one, where they followed a foreign man around, and young foreign man had to run like heck, and turn off the road,a and wade streams, and slide down hills to lose them, and they still found and followed him, even though he had the time of his life doing it. Mr. Hack knows what I am talking about.

    The Japan that Swift populated with talking horses.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics?

    Well, I’ll embarrass myself because I think the stuff with the broadest appeal are romances. I think it is about the effort that goes into it. They understand the commercial appeal, and so that is where they put their effort, and try to make something sophisticated. IMO, it is about getting the girls to go to the theater, but so the guys won’t mind it so much.

    Probably, you have heard of Your Name 2016. Kimi no Na wa It was considered a big hit.

    Might be seen as problematic by some because the gimmick of the plot involves accidental body-swapping between a girl and boy. But it is a pretty wholesome movie on the whole. I consider it easily better than any Western animated film I have seen in the past ten years. I though WALL-E wasn’t so bad, but that was from 2008.

    One highlight of it is representative of a lot of Japanese culture as a whole, is the Japanese appreciation for both place (as in settings that are inspired by actual places), and tradition. In the movie, the urban boy is connected to the rural maiden, and she is a shrine maiden, or part time, for a ceremony. It is a very good-looking animation, IMO.

    Harder to recommend a show because there is more of a time commitment involved even for a short one, and I think you need a certain tolerance for it. There are a lot Japanese tropes that may not sit well with Westerners, like the mixed tone. Points of wackball comedy, combined with tragedy, or the animation that sometimes does look very weird.

    Or points where they may see it as too perverted – though I honestly think that this is one of the endearing things about Japanese culture – it is that the perverted characters are often chaste. A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive. It is bawdy but doesn’t trivialize sex because of the chasteness. At least certain things are like this (one can’t constrain the whole, as the Japanese are famously perverted), but what is like this, is totally unlike Hollywood, which always trivializes sex but never satirizes it.

    But, anyway, there was one anime series that I thought was pretty good. Immediate and funny caveat: I though the faces were creepy-looking, too-big eyes, and almost stopped after the first episode. (I think that might supposed to be the type of art which specifically appeals to girls – and has interesting HBD implications)

    This is the one I would call a “quasi-masterpiece.” In some ways, I consider it almost to be high art, but with a lot of caveats and flaws in the piece. I was almost going to try to recommend it to LatW because I think it really has some endearing qualities that she might appreciate. But I don’t feel like I can without much knowledge of her capacity to tolerate anime or even TV shows because I feel you can only judge it and get a sense of it about maybe after the first 3-4 episodes.

    At its heart, and what I like the most about it is seems a love letter to classical music. In this sense, it has a very Euro feel to it, and feels like a celebration of European culture. It almost feels like something Europeans might have made at one time, but I would say can’t make now, or at least people in Western Europe would feel that they can’t.

    I think there are even parts of it that would strongly appeal to you. On a certain level, the series extols spontaneity, best represented by the sickly girl character, who knows each moment could be her last and plays her violin very emotively, knowing the judges may dislike it, but wanting to reach the audience. It is certainly a very emotional series. Some may feel it manipulative or maudlin. I like its use of light, to counteract the depression of the main boy character.

    And it is not hippyish – part of it is about hard work and the thrill of competition, and about the thrill of the possibility of a performance that moves someone in the audience. This is part of what I like about it – it seems to inspire one to think of art, and this is why I would almost call it “high art.” (for the life of me, I cannot think of anything similar)

    The series is a tragic romance. Not for everyone.

    One part I did find hard to watch. (That involves the boy having negative memories of his piano lessons) Of course, the main plot one can see coming from a mile away, but I found one part incidental to it (that is along the way) really poignant and almost breathtakingly beautiful in its animation. The scene must have been rotoscoped, I think? But I am not sure. (I would not want to spoil it, but I felt it related to mortality in a very symbolic way, in the way of life and action and youth, it was exactly when the girl and boy were playing music together on the same stage and the context that the series gives that one fleeting moment makes it seem like a flower in bloom – it really is poignantly beautiful)

    And in a way, it is a very optimistic movie, despite being sad and partly about depression. And depicts what the Japanese might see as normal, but which in 2023 would strike a Westerner as utopian. A society where a five year old girl can navigate her way alone from a concert hall to her parent’s bakery.

    I’m afraid that the trailer for it makes it look quite bad (faces look a bit creepy at times) and even woke (a line in it I do not remember and am pretty sure wasn’t in it), but I’ll post this piece of music from it, which I think is original and good:

    The series is called Your Lie in April (2013).

    In way, the main plot of it echoes some of the themes I mentioned earlier about shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese. Big highlight is the music and how the performer is shown as desiring to move the audience. And how the girl moves the boy, and how he tries to move her. 22 episodes long, so a time commitment.

    But I genuinely thought it was moving.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    I see you are a fan of manga, and you are starting to confuse manga with Japan. Manga is not about the life in Japan, manga is about a life the Japanese do not live, and about what is "cute" - like all these official mascots in Japan. It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too. You see mascots invaded Japan from anime, not vice versa.

    https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-culture-mascots/

    https://teamjapanese.com/japanese-mascots/


    A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive.

     

    This, however, is a joke on true phenomenon (but not natural one). Upskirt photography is a social phenomenon in Japan, testifying to cultural avoidance of expressing desire in Japan.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3150610/coronavirus-boredom-moves-japanese-perverts-upskirt


    I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice.
     
    It is not cringy, it is sincere. They simply investigate new culture, they probably took their worship of Japan a step further and decided to confront it with reality, unlike you. On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call "rudeness", really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
    Therefore, what many Westerners take as the high sophistication of culture, as communication without words, as you when you write

    shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese.
     
    is simply cultural repression. Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides and loneliness. Sion Sono "Suicide Club" could be about the phenomenon of Japanese groupthink taken to the extreme. In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present - the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death - when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BciJn9k9VlU

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yevardian, @songbird

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I also like the pop music in Japanese anime better. It just has an emotional tone that suits my own attitude to life more - but then I'm not really spiritually at home in America :) A sense of sadness, yearning, no doubt based on the Buddhist sense of the evanescence of life, but somehow combined with energy - not a languid, passive sadness - perhaps a determination to live with vigor despite it's uncertainty and briefness.

    But these are just words and it's hard to describe. It is what it is.

    Thanks for your recommendations!

    They are not embarrassing at all. I've seen Your Name and I thought it was brilliant. A deeply moving, sad, movie. It's good to see these kinds of movies still being made and becoming popular. It's easily one of the best movies I've watched in the past few years.

    Garden of Rain by the same director is also superb, and I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second, a rather meditative film and one that Dmitry once told me was "boring". But Dmitry just might be a Philistine :)

    As for Your Life in April, I've seen that on Netflix - your description is very good and I shall now have to check it out - thanks :)

    I think you'd enjoy the Boy and The Beast, also a moving film, and the Sword of the Stranger. The Berserk films are also superb, but very to dark and with some disturbing scenes especially towards the end.

    Thanks for your description of Your Life in April!

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

  672. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm sure he has no problem with dairy, but modern production has an extremely quick turnover/cull rate. Modern dairy production is dependent on incessant cow slaughter.

    Modern meat and dairy is a nasty business with the septic veneer of machine efficiency.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

    Sure, farm animals would die if they were released into the wild but there is no reason to not treat them like animals instead of meat production units.

    The library goes okay, though on the backburner. It’s been enclosed and usable for the last few months but I have about 48 linear feet of built in black walnut bookcases to finish before it’s properly done.

    I’ve been focusing more on walnut railings and newel posts with wrought iron spindles for my upstairs.

    It seems like getting projects done on one’s own house while one lives in it continues to be a slow slog!

    Thanks for asking though!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Barbarossa


    It seems like getting projects done on one’s own house while one lives in it continues to be a slow slog!
     
    I know someone who bought an old house from an electrician and it had knob and tube wiring it it, and the electrician said he liked the old stuff or something. Which was quite a problem for the new owner who wanted to insulate it, with spray foam.
  673. @Gerard1234
    @AP


    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

     

    LMAO - so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the "landlocked PLC " garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake "ukrainian" act is the fake doctor act - you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your "life"- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn "overperforming"). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn't mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem.....and reputation for it that it does


    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems ...you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia.......than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy - the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural - so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger.....but it isn't. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn't, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990's than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people.......Galicia has next to none of this.....its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD's are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack

    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?

    • Replies: @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Primarily the eastern parts. I had a friend in Moscow with grandparents from Donetsk oblast, who said every other girl there was for sale. Not even "professionals." An unz commenter who spent time in Ukraine:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/im-shocked-shocked-to-hear/#comment-757678

    The Western Ukrainians are like Poles. Even despite decades of outright Soviet neglect and outright antagonism the level of culture in a place like Lwow (Lviv) far outstrips anything in Donetsk. I’ve spent significant time in both cities. Lwow felt like a Western city occupied by a foreign power. The people are fantastic, in a true conservative sense. They value their history, their land, their crafts, and they are a self-sufficient people. Donetsk is completely Soviet – deracinated, crappy industries, corrupt and crime ridden, and full of people who would emigrate to the West in a heart beat if they could. Even before the fighting Donetsk was a basket case like every other Russian and East Ukrainian city. If you want to get laid, go to Donetsk. The women have no morals, prostituting yourself is just what women do. In Lwow people still get married and value families. That alone explains why so many in the “manosphere” side with East Ukraine.

    Long before this war and its famous battle, Severodonetsk featured in an article written by some degenerate expats in Moscow who wrote about prostitutes whose services they used:

    http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7573

    “Lola, my whore, came from Severodonetsk, a toxic dump in the Lugansk oblast, the Russified east of Ukraine. I rented her late on Sunday, November 28th — the same day that the Ukrainian governors of several pro-Yanukovich regions were holding a congress in Severodonetsk, threatening to create a breakaway southeastern Ukrainian republic if the “orange” revolution in Kiev succeeded. It was one of those coincidences that writers invent to give a sordid story some relevance — but invention in this case isn’t necessary. We’re talking about whores here, folks. Any john in Moscow knows that Yanukovich country, the pro-Russian southeast of Ukraine, is the snapper-basket of Europe, the white world’s most fertile breeding ground for whores, the Golden Triangle of prostitution production.”

    ::::::::::::::::

    AnoninTN is from Donbas. Note that he likes to often mention prostitution in his jokes, comments, and analogies. That is because of the region where he is from. People from that region are so familiar with prostitution and prostitutes all around them that this theme naturally comes easily to their minds. And sometimes they assume that everyone must be like they are.

    This is of course horrible and sad.

    Replies: @German_reader

    , @Gerard1234
    @Wokechoke


    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?
     
    Ukraine.......and Hotel Ukraina in Moscow. Every Oksana from Lvov or Ternopol dreams to have the "career" have the old hotel as a tour date - it's like every Boxer wants to fight at Madison Square Gardens or every ballet dancer wants to perform at the Bolshoi.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  674. @Barbarossa
    @Barbarossa

    Sure, farm animals would die if they were released into the wild but there is no reason to not treat them like animals instead of meat production units.

    The library goes okay, though on the backburner. It's been enclosed and usable for the last few months but I have about 48 linear feet of built in black walnut bookcases to finish before it's properly done.

    I've been focusing more on walnut railings and newel posts with wrought iron spindles for my upstairs.

    It seems like getting projects done on one's own house while one lives in it continues to be a slow slog!

    Thanks for asking though!

    Replies: @songbird

    It seems like getting projects done on one’s own house while one lives in it continues to be a slow slog!

    I know someone who bought an old house from an electrician and it had knob and tube wiring it it, and the electrician said he liked the old stuff or something. Which was quite a problem for the new owner who wanted to insulate it, with spray foam.

  675. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    I have also seen this error a couple of times. The comment I posted went through despite the error message.

    Replies: @songbird

    Thanks. I still can’t tell if (presumably) Altan was joking or not. I almost think he was, but like the kind of joke one would make, after one drank a bottle of vodka.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    I think he was serious. Altan posted a lot of beautiful pictures related to Buddhadharma and history. Some of these pictures were quite unique and he might have uploaded them from his computer. Perhaps he had a collection of these. If he had liked some picture that I have linked from the web, which I would have found through a standard web search, as I always do, then he might have saved it to add it to his collection. Perhaps this picture was carrying a Trojan or some other malware ?

    Personally, I never download anything that I am not 100% certain of and don't open anything I find suspicious. Certainly not from UR. And about what GR wrote, I have remembered that I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?

    I couldn't possibly know because all I do is a standard Google / images search and link the picture into my comment. I also run Anti-Malware and I had no prompt when I copied the link. But GR is right, better be safe than sorry, I will refrain from linking such pictures in the future.

    Replies: @sudden death

  676. @Sean
    @Yahya

    You are still wrong. And so is this fellow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY

    Vitamin D is limited by multiple mechanisms in the body and skin of white people.

    White skin evolved in the Bronze age invasions, and it was an adaptation by women to the murderously patriarchal Yamanaya culture of the Beaker folk who took over so much of northern Europe. White skin inhibits aggression and stimulates care and provisioning. Like a baby's skin.

    Replies: @Yahya, @Sean

    The alleles for dark skin disappeared from Europe during the Bronze age a very long time after the switch to agriculture. White skin inhibits aggression and also sexual interest, which is why so many young women nowadays go to trouble to tan.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/xygkpj/melanotan-ii-gives-us-what-we-always-wanted-dark-tans-and-powerful-erections

  677. @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard1234

    Primarily the eastern parts. I had a friend in Moscow with grandparents from Donetsk oblast, who said every other girl there was for sale. Not even “professionals.” An unz commenter who spent time in Ukraine:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/im-shocked-shocked-to-hear/#comment-757678

    The Western Ukrainians are like Poles. Even despite decades of outright Soviet neglect and outright antagonism the level of culture in a place like Lwow (Lviv) far outstrips anything in Donetsk. I’ve spent significant time in both cities. Lwow felt like a Western city occupied by a foreign power. The people are fantastic, in a true conservative sense. They value their history, their land, their crafts, and they are a self-sufficient people. Donetsk is completely Soviet – deracinated, crappy industries, corrupt and crime ridden, and full of people who would emigrate to the West in a heart beat if they could. Even before the fighting Donetsk was a basket case like every other Russian and East Ukrainian city. If you want to get laid, go to Donetsk. The women have no morals, prostituting yourself is just what women do. In Lwow people still get married and value families. That alone explains why so many in the “manosphere” side with East Ukraine.

    Long before this war and its famous battle, Severodonetsk featured in an article written by some degenerate expats in Moscow who wrote about prostitutes whose services they used:

    [MORE]

    http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7573

    “Lola, my whore, came from Severodonetsk, a toxic dump in the Lugansk oblast, the Russified east of Ukraine. I rented her late on Sunday, November 28th — the same day that the Ukrainian governors of several pro-Yanukovich regions were holding a congress in Severodonetsk, threatening to create a breakaway southeastern Ukrainian republic if the “orange” revolution in Kiev succeeded. It was one of those coincidences that writers invent to give a sordid story some relevance — but invention in this case isn’t necessary. We’re talking about whores here, folks. Any john in Moscow knows that Yanukovich country, the pro-Russian southeast of Ukraine, is the snapper-basket of Europe, the white world’s most fertile breeding ground for whores, the Golden Triangle of prostitution production.”

    ::::::::::::::::

    AnoninTN is from Donbas. Note that he likes to often mention prostitution in his jokes, comments, and analogies. That is because of the region where he is from. People from that region are so familiar with prostitution and prostitutes all around them that this theme naturally comes easily to their minds. And sometimes they assume that everyone must be like they are.

    This is of course horrible and sad.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP

    I suppose that means the war and the loss of Donbass has its upside, at least Donbass people won't be able to tarnish Ukraine's good reputation with their loose morals now.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

  678. @AP
    @Wokechoke

    Primarily the eastern parts. I had a friend in Moscow with grandparents from Donetsk oblast, who said every other girl there was for sale. Not even "professionals." An unz commenter who spent time in Ukraine:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/im-shocked-shocked-to-hear/#comment-757678

    The Western Ukrainians are like Poles. Even despite decades of outright Soviet neglect and outright antagonism the level of culture in a place like Lwow (Lviv) far outstrips anything in Donetsk. I’ve spent significant time in both cities. Lwow felt like a Western city occupied by a foreign power. The people are fantastic, in a true conservative sense. They value their history, their land, their crafts, and they are a self-sufficient people. Donetsk is completely Soviet – deracinated, crappy industries, corrupt and crime ridden, and full of people who would emigrate to the West in a heart beat if they could. Even before the fighting Donetsk was a basket case like every other Russian and East Ukrainian city. If you want to get laid, go to Donetsk. The women have no morals, prostituting yourself is just what women do. In Lwow people still get married and value families. That alone explains why so many in the “manosphere” side with East Ukraine.

    Long before this war and its famous battle, Severodonetsk featured in an article written by some degenerate expats in Moscow who wrote about prostitutes whose services they used:

    http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=7573

    “Lola, my whore, came from Severodonetsk, a toxic dump in the Lugansk oblast, the Russified east of Ukraine. I rented her late on Sunday, November 28th — the same day that the Ukrainian governors of several pro-Yanukovich regions were holding a congress in Severodonetsk, threatening to create a breakaway southeastern Ukrainian republic if the “orange” revolution in Kiev succeeded. It was one of those coincidences that writers invent to give a sordid story some relevance — but invention in this case isn’t necessary. We’re talking about whores here, folks. Any john in Moscow knows that Yanukovich country, the pro-Russian southeast of Ukraine, is the snapper-basket of Europe, the white world’s most fertile breeding ground for whores, the Golden Triangle of prostitution production.”

    ::::::::::::::::

    AnoninTN is from Donbas. Note that he likes to often mention prostitution in his jokes, comments, and analogies. That is because of the region where he is from. People from that region are so familiar with prostitution and prostitutes all around them that this theme naturally comes easily to their minds. And sometimes they assume that everyone must be like they are.

    This is of course horrible and sad.

    Replies: @German_reader

    I suppose that means the war and the loss of Donbass has its upside, at least Donbass people won’t be able to tarnish Ukraine’s good reputation with their loose morals now.

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader

    You are being facetious; I think these people ought to be saved. Ukraine couldn’t do it, so I support Donbas’ expulsion from Ukraine, not its violent destruction.

    But since 2014, Russia has chosen to just ruin it and disperse its people.

    , @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    There is what can be described as "classical AP". He posts an informal comment posted by unreliable people* from an internet forum like it is a representative and scientific sample, if it will support one of his favorite themes.

    Here is one of his favorite themes, desire to condemn people from Eastern Ukraine in comparison to people from Western Ukraine. (By the way, AnonfromTN said many times he from a Ukrainian family from Lvov/Lviv).

    I remember an argument where AP was saying Indians are less talented in computer science than Ukrainians. When I asked why he believes this, he said because someone in the Sailer forum has posted that Indians are bad employees.

    -
    * "I found there was once a comment posted by a person in New York who said women in Eastern Alabama have less social responsibility than women in Western Alabama"

    Replies: @AP

  679. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I’ve heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it’s often distinctive emotional tone.
     
    I don't know whether it is the fact that I don't know Japanese, but I feel like they have much better songs and music in their shows. And sometimes it is true when they are in English. This is all from one show, a famous one among dissidents Legend of the Galactic Heroes:
    https://youtu.be/ReIFoP8T4q8

    https://youtu.be/Sken4RHX9FY

    https://youtu.be/Hryo6H57y6I

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in
     
    Oh, I've definitely gotten a sense of this, and it is more than just whites. I don't like it at all. I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice. On the whole, undoubtedly there is more damage directed the other way, in both Europe in America, but I still don't like to see it.

    Particularly alarming to me are street interviews where they sometimes find Japanese who seem to be repeating woke talking points. And of course, Japan is aging rapidly, though not so rapidly as SK or China will.

    My ideal vision of Japan would be the one, where they followed a foreign man around, and young foreign man had to run like heck, and turn off the road,a and wade streams, and slide down hills to lose them, and they still found and followed him, even though he had the time of his life doing it. Mr. Hack knows what I am talking about.

    The Japan that Swift populated with talking horses.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics?
     
    Well, I'll embarrass myself because I think the stuff with the broadest appeal are romances. I think it is about the effort that goes into it. They understand the commercial appeal, and so that is where they put their effort, and try to make something sophisticated. IMO, it is about getting the girls to go to the theater, but so the guys won't mind it so much.

    Probably, you have heard of Your Name 2016. Kimi no Na wa It was considered a big hit.
    https://youtu.be/xU47nhruN-Q

    Might be seen as problematic by some because the gimmick of the plot involves accidental body-swapping between a girl and boy. But it is a pretty wholesome movie on the whole. I consider it easily better than any Western animated film I have seen in the past ten years. I though WALL-E wasn't so bad, but that was from 2008.

    One highlight of it is representative of a lot of Japanese culture as a whole, is the Japanese appreciation for both place (as in settings that are inspired by actual places), and tradition. In the movie, the urban boy is connected to the rural maiden, and she is a shrine maiden, or part time, for a ceremony. It is a very good-looking animation, IMO.

    Harder to recommend a show because there is more of a time commitment involved even for a short one, and I think you need a certain tolerance for it. There are a lot Japanese tropes that may not sit well with Westerners, like the mixed tone. Points of wackball comedy, combined with tragedy, or the animation that sometimes does look very weird.

    Or points where they may see it as too perverted - though I honestly think that this is one of the endearing things about Japanese culture - it is that the perverted characters are often chaste. A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl's skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive. It is bawdy but doesn't trivialize sex because of the chasteness. At least certain things are like this (one can't constrain the whole, as the Japanese are famously perverted), but what is like this, is totally unlike Hollywood, which always trivializes sex but never satirizes it.

    But, anyway, there was one anime series that I thought was pretty good. Immediate and funny caveat: I though the faces were creepy-looking, too-big eyes, and almost stopped after the first episode. (I think that might supposed to be the type of art which specifically appeals to girls - and has interesting HBD implications)

    This is the one I would call a "quasi-masterpiece." In some ways, I consider it almost to be high art, but with a lot of caveats and flaws in the piece. I was almost going to try to recommend it to LatW because I think it really has some endearing qualities that she might appreciate. But I don't feel like I can without much knowledge of her capacity to tolerate anime or even TV shows because I feel you can only judge it and get a sense of it about maybe after the first 3-4 episodes.

    At its heart, and what I like the most about it is seems a love letter to classical music. In this sense, it has a very Euro feel to it, and feels like a celebration of European culture. It almost feels like something Europeans might have made at one time, but I would say can't make now, or at least people in Western Europe would feel that they can't.

    I think there are even parts of it that would strongly appeal to you. On a certain level, the series extols spontaneity, best represented by the sickly girl character, who knows each moment could be her last and plays her violin very emotively, knowing the judges may dislike it, but wanting to reach the audience. It is certainly a very emotional series. Some may feel it manipulative or maudlin. I like its use of light, to counteract the depression of the main boy character.

    And it is not hippyish - part of it is about hard work and the thrill of competition, and about the thrill of the possibility of a performance that moves someone in the audience. This is part of what I like about it - it seems to inspire one to think of art, and this is why I would almost call it "high art." (for the life of me, I cannot think of anything similar)

    The series is a tragic romance. Not for everyone.

    One part I did find hard to watch. (That involves the boy having negative memories of his piano lessons) Of course, the main plot one can see coming from a mile away, but I found one part incidental to it (that is along the way) really poignant and almost breathtakingly beautiful in its animation. The scene must have been rotoscoped, I think? But I am not sure. (I would not want to spoil it, but I felt it related to mortality in a very symbolic way, in the way of life and action and youth, it was exactly when the girl and boy were playing music together on the same stage and the context that the series gives that one fleeting moment makes it seem like a flower in bloom - it really is poignantly beautiful)

    And in a way, it is a very optimistic movie, despite being sad and partly about depression. And depicts what the Japanese might see as normal, but which in 2023 would strike a Westerner as utopian. A society where a five year old girl can navigate her way alone from a concert hall to her parent's bakery.

    I'm afraid that the trailer for it makes it look quite bad (faces look a bit creepy at times) and even woke (a line in it I do not remember and am pretty sure wasn't in it), but I'll post this piece of music from it, which I think is original and good:
    https://youtu.be/GEYepRwYKHw

    The series is called Your Lie in April (2013).

    In way, the main plot of it echoes some of the themes I mentioned earlier about shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese. Big highlight is the music and how the performer is shown as desiring to move the audience. And how the girl moves the boy, and how he tries to move her. 22 episodes long, so a time commitment.

    But I genuinely thought it was moving.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I see you are a fan of manga, and you are starting to confuse manga with Japan. Manga is not about the life in Japan, manga is about a life the Japanese do not live, and about what is “cute” – like all these official mascots in Japan. It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too. You see mascots invaded Japan from anime, not vice versa.

    https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-culture-mascots/

    https://teamjapanese.com/japanese-mascots/

    A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive.

    This, however, is a joke on true phenomenon (but not natural one). Upskirt photography is a social phenomenon in Japan, testifying to cultural avoidance of expressing desire in Japan.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3150610/coronavirus-boredom-moves-japanese-perverts-upskirt

    I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice.

    It is not cringy, it is sincere. They simply investigate new culture, they probably took their worship of Japan a step further and decided to confront it with reality, unlike you. On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call “rudeness”, really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
    Therefore, what many Westerners take as the high sophistication of culture, as communication without words, as you when you write

    shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese.

    is simply cultural repression. Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides and loneliness. Sion Sono “Suicide Club” could be about the phenomenon of Japanese groupthink taken to the extreme. In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I happen to have known quite a few people of 100% Japanese descent who always felt a little awkward in the country that their parents or grandparents had immigrated to, partly because it is not 100% sensitive to people who look different, so, when young adults, those Japanese descendants tried moving to Japan, which they have a right to do and passports, but they swiftly found that living there was alienating and unpleasant, despite having even grown up speaking Japanese at home, and then returned to the country of their birth as outspoken patriots.

    If you talk to them, they will elaborate at length on how difficult Japanese society is and how they much they dislike the place. I am inclined to believe these people and think that Westerners just fantasise about a Japan which they are ignorant of.

    Now, is this because they are missing something and my belief in them misplaced? Quite possibly! But the phenomenon is very strong and those young Japanese are not returning from Japan to some famed locale of high functioning, like Austin or Copenhagen, but Brazil, and are easily the most patriotic well-educated Brazillians which I have met, despite facing some minor racism in their ordinary lives and having previously tried to retvrn to their ancestral homeland.

    , @Yevardian
    @Another Polish Perspective


    In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).
     
    Didn't know about this but God, eating dogs or live octopus, black bear bile, torturing dogs, shark-fin soup... what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals? I had at least thought Japanese were an exception. Maybe Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    'Eastern Spirituality' my arse. How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior in anything is a mystery to me.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    , @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I see you are a fan of manga
     
    I would not say this exactly, as I have never really read a manga. Not that I would have some principle against doing so, but I feel it would be difficult for various reasons. Finding something worthwhile, that would not be a retread for me of something that was derived from a manga. And reading it in its entirety in a comfortable manner. I don't really like to own many books.

    What I am a fan of is the idea of manga. It seems a cheap way to test out ideas and plots, and see what resonates. There seems to be much more variety in them than in American comic books. Many genres.

    It is also unavoidably fascinating to someone like me, interested in HBD, to see the sex differences, in the animation meant for different markets. I genuinely suspect that it involves hard-wired differences in the brain that have to do with many things, such as hunting vs. gathering. Minding the baby vs. facing wild beasts.

    It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too.
     
    Oh, I know this. It appeals to a fringe audience (but a bigger one). But isn't this everything nowadays? and escapism shows truth and can even influence us positively.

    It is not cringy, it is sincere.
     
    Sincere things can be cringey, if they are not moral and do not show self-restraint and consideration.

    On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call “rudeness”, really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
     
    You've misunderstood me. I am talking specifically about issues related to open borders and immigration.

    For example, a Euro vlogger in China will say that he has noticed an uptick in Chinese xenophobia and maybe some official policies which make him and his family feel uncomfortable. Of course, this is highly obnoxious behavior because it is very selfish because it is based on self-feeling, and does not consider group well-being, or that China might be harmed by adopting the welcoming attitude of states in Western Europe.

    And that is just one example. It is easy to see it operating in the opposite direction in Europe. And probably at at least 100x the scale, and that is only considering East Asians and not other peoples.

    is simply cultural repression.
     
    There is a certain idea that Edo-era Japan was much more libertine, and that Tokugara, because of the influence of foreigners, was their Victorian period, where the social mores really became stringent.

    But Japan seems fairly degenerate today, so I do not favor a strong cultural answer to what I might perceive as the good parts of it.

    Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides
     
    many people think this is something genetic, and has to do with group-selection. That Japanese remove themselves from society, when they feel they don't fit in.

    I take no firm opinion, and haven't looked into it much, but would say that I suspect that it has a lot to do with the bad aspects of modern living, and may relate to the high urbanization rate.


    another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present
     
    I really don't like the masks. I find it inhuman and alien. Some will say it is only culture, but I suspect layered on genetics.

    I have sometimes wondered what a split Japan would look like, if you took all the Japanese who may not like wearing masks and put them together in one place. Perhaps, even I, who hate masks, would realize that there is some sort of social cost to it. That the people who don't like to wear them are less socially minded.
  680. German_reader says:

    https://newsingermany.com/defense-ukraine-demands-cluster-munitions-and-phosphorus-incendiary-weapons/

    Ukraine demands controversial from its Western backers cluster munitions and phosphorus incendiary weapons to fight against Russia. The United States and a number of other allies would have millions of shots from it, said Deputy Prime Minister Olexander Kubrakow on Friday evening at the Munich Security Conference. Russia uses this type of weaponry every day. “Why can’t we use them? It’s our territory,” he said. He understands the difficulties because of conventions. But this type of ammunition can help to withstand the attackers.

    Kubrakov was alluding to the fact that the use of cluster munitions is outlawed under international law. Cluster munitions are rockets and bombs that burst in mid-air over the target, releasing many small explosive devices. Phosphorus munitions can cause severe burns and poisoning in humans.

    Getting better and better…

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @German_reader

    You point out the request by Ukraine for use of the US cluster munition stocks in order to tut-tut, but, honest question, have you previously even complained once about Russia's actual use of cluster munitions in their invasion of Ukraine until now, and, if not, why not?

    Generally, I'd expect someone who is able to remain even-minded and still listen to and understand both sides, to nonetheless get much more annoyed by the year of use of the "bad" munition, than the request to use the bad munitions after a year of them being used against them.

    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/08/25/growing-civilian-toll-russian-cluster-munition-attacks

    Replies: @German_reader

  681. @AP
    @Beckow


    "…De-nazification of Ukraine. That is, elimination of nationalism politically and culturally."

    You are again slopping around some weird mental weeds: nationalism is not Nazism.
     

    Don't pretend that you don't undertsand Rusia.

    According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky's government is referred to as a Nazi government.

    Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?

    Under the Russian understanding of de-Nazification, the only acceptable political parties allowed to exist in Ukraine would be a reborn Party of Regions, Communists, or Russian nationalists.


    Regarding the Russian goals: my view is that “de-nazification’ is a slogan and cant’t be properly assessed
     
    It's pretty clear because we know whom the Russian government regards as Nazis. It means regime change and elimination of all pro-Western Ukrainian political parties.

    You only have to read the comments by some of the Western morons who get all their information from Russian government sources, to see whom the Russian state regards as Nazis: any Ukrainian nationalist.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government….Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?

    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko, or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk, etc.. nationalists and none of them would be considered a Nazi. Even Poroshenko (not sure). The problem with Zelko is that he has gone nuts, he is not a “Nazi” by any standard, but has started to endorse and tolerate the Nazi nationalists who worship Bandera – Russians for a good reason consider that Nazi-like. As do Poles, Slovaks, Czechs, Jews – and almost all of the West before they decided that for political reasons they will look the other way.

    You massively exaggerate the Russian position that is more moderate – although it is radicalizing. In effect, you are lying for a losing cause – Ukies are not going to win – not a good place to be. It also prevents a dialogue: demonizing your enemy is the worst strategy if you are the weaker side. Kiev could have ended this with a reasonable compromise – with Minsk, or last spring with Minsk+, a peace agreement that would not be perfect, temporary, but would save tens of thousands of lives.

    It is obvious to any rational observer that Russia will not back down unless totally defeated. The defeat is very unlikely, so this will go on killing countless Ukies and some Russians, destroying the country, making some in the West (and in Ukraine) rich, and it will eventually end with a deal that Kiev could have had at any point. Or, alternatively, Ukies will go down in a total defeat and all you dreams – even the normal ones – will be destroyed for a generation.

    Those are the choices. All else are false hopes, hoping for miracles, and pure unadulterated hatred and anger. Ukies (and you) had a choice and they chose wrong…it happens, but the triple doubling down as they are doing now is rare.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    "…According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government….Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?"

    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko,
     
    Klitschko, one of the key members of the "Nazi" Maidan?

    Here is Russian media:

    https://ria.ru/20230212/veteran-1851525629.html

    Approvingly quoting a veteran calling Klitschko a traitor to the Motherland and a fascist.

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3579377.html

    It doesn't matter if Klitschko is half Russian, Nazis come in all ethnicities, it says.

    or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk
     
    You forgot how the "Nazi" Tymoshenko supposedly said she was going to nuke Russia?

    Kravchuk is dead.

    Even Poroshenko (not sure).
     
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28049565

    "Ukraine: Putin aide brands Poroshenko 'Nazi' ahead of EU deal"

    ::::::::::::

    Yes, every Ukrainian nationalist is a Nazi by Kremlin definition, so de-Nazification means removal of all Ukrainian nationalism from poltics and society. To turn the country (against its will) into a Belarus.

    Replies: @German_reader

  682. @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thanks. I still can't tell if (presumably) Altan was joking or not. I almost think he was, but like the kind of joke one would make, after one drank a bottle of vodka.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I think he was serious. Altan posted a lot of beautiful pictures related to Buddhadharma and history. Some of these pictures were quite unique and he might have uploaded them from his computer. Perhaps he had a collection of these. If he had liked some picture that I have linked from the web, which I would have found through a standard web search, as I always do, then he might have saved it to add it to his collection. Perhaps this picture was carrying a Trojan or some other malware ?

    Personally, I never download anything that I am not 100% certain of and don’t open anything I find suspicious. Certainly not from UR. And about what GR wrote, I have remembered that I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?

    I couldn’t possibly know because all I do is a standard Google / images search and link the picture into my comment. I also run Anti-Malware and I had no prompt when I copied the link. But GR is right, better be safe than sorry, I will refrain from linking such pictures in the future.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?
     
    Is it in principle really possible for non-executable program, but simply picture/video file of any format to contain some infection (virus, trojan, rootkit, etc.) these days?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  683. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    all information. Not only DNA, but everything.. But the metabolome of a human cell would
    contain many orders of magnitude more information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolome). And if we add all the information together in a single human body, all the omics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omics)
     
    I feel you are confusing different concepts of information and confusing also difference between information and the information about something.

    For example, if instructions for building IKEA furniture can be several kilobytes. But the information about the furniture you build using this instructions would be textbooks of physics and chemistry.

    The furniture that is constructed is not the same as the instructions for building, although there is physical interaction between the instructions and the furniture constructed.

    Same, textbooks of physics and chemistry that would describe the IKEA furniture which is constructed, are not the same as the IKEA furniture constructed.

    We can't do the furniture shopping going to the IKEA catalogue and downloading the instructions, or reading the scientific explanation in the textbook. Physical object is different than both algorithm for assembly (instructions) and information describing it (textbooks).

    For DNA, its real existence is some chains of amino acids, the information is the patterns of machine code that it contains and these patterns which has predictable (i.e. the pattern-based) causal relations with the physical world.

    But when we talk about the machine code, this is a discussion about the patterns in the chains of relevant chains of protein in the animal and plant cells. This is information in the normal understanding, as something that can be reduced to the digital code.


    quantum fields are basically more aptly described as mathematical functions, then we see that the closest we can get to Ontological Reality is information expressed as mathematics which are inherently incomplete in Gödel’s meaning

     

    He had proved a lack of consistency in the formal system (based in axioms). I'm not sure you can say "incomplete of mathematics to express reality" based in this. It's about incompleteness to axiomatize mathematics.

    gene ontology elements combined and expressed encode the hardware of your body. But this body itself is just a complex receptor and a processing system for the mind. Your mind and my mind

     

    Genetics are just machine code that has a predictable relation to physical world. It's not "for" anything. It has random variation although in context of the probability chains which creates the very sensitive and gradual relations of the machine code in relation to its own history and environment.

    should we care about the animal?

    Because the human animal experiences pleasure, pain, love and hate and is part of the Mind itself
     

    You can be confusing notidentical things. For example of notidentical things, we can confuse in the normal discussion, maybe think about between a bottle of Coca Cola and the Coca Cola.

    If you say "this is a bottle of Coca Cola"? Is the bottle made of Coca Cola instead of plastic? Is plastic Coca Cola?

    If you drink the bottle of coca cola, so it falls to your stomach, can you say "this is a stomach of coca cola". It has causal relations with Coca Cola, but the stomach is not the same as Coca Cola.

    If you open the bottle of Coca Cola and throw the liquid components into the sink, is it a bottle of Coca Cola or bottle of plastic?

    Bottle of Coca Cola includes multiple notidentical kind of things (plastic, Coca Cola liquid) which are having a particular causal relation.

    I wouldn't speculate, but the relation between the minds and the animals can possibly be nonidentical relations.

    As we all know, we see mainly a predictable causal relations between the minds and the animals. But this isn't enough to say they are the same things.


    a koan asks : what was my original face before my parents were born ?

     

    It can be trying to make the students of the Zen teacher think to this more universal sense of the mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)

    longest period of human existence as a species, we lived as clans and tribes where we were all third – fourth degree cousins.

     

    For most of our history, we lived in the groups around 80 people.

    We didn't necessarily inherit preference to reduce the genetic diversity, but it could be in the other direction, we inherit preference to increase genetic diversity, as the evidence of the hunter-gatherers was to often try to increase the genetic diversity to their groups by marrying to other tribes.

    Obviously, what we inherit, is not necessarily "correct" from universal view or even "adapted" for current environments' view. But it's possible patterns from this time continue in our current environment.

    Although we know those explanations of culture from evolution, are usually a pseudoscience, as the methodology follows something more like "just-so" stories.

    Let's say, in literary or poetical view, still feels like we have a new perspective when we look at the hunter-gatherer time where orders of magnitude most of the generations of our human ancestors experienced.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    My reply was posted as comment # 651. For some reason, It was unlinked from your comment while posting it.

  684. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    I think he was serious. Altan posted a lot of beautiful pictures related to Buddhadharma and history. Some of these pictures were quite unique and he might have uploaded them from his computer. Perhaps he had a collection of these. If he had liked some picture that I have linked from the web, which I would have found through a standard web search, as I always do, then he might have saved it to add it to his collection. Perhaps this picture was carrying a Trojan or some other malware ?

    Personally, I never download anything that I am not 100% certain of and don't open anything I find suspicious. Certainly not from UR. And about what GR wrote, I have remembered that I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?

    I couldn't possibly know because all I do is a standard Google / images search and link the picture into my comment. I also run Anti-Malware and I had no prompt when I copied the link. But GR is right, better be safe than sorry, I will refrain from linking such pictures in the future.

    Replies: @sudden death

    I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?

    Is it in principle really possible for non-executable program, but simply picture/video file of any format to contain some infection (virus, trojan, rootkit, etc.) these days?

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @sudden death

    I don't know. My knowledge in this field is very limited. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the internet security might tell us more.

  685. @German_reader
    @sudden death


    Values have a hierarchy too, a value of not letting “another Hitler” to crush post WWII peace in democratic Europe and to take “another Poland”(which was not some paragon of democracy and tolerance even then) without much trouble is above all else atm.
     
    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn't really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that's totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language (e. g. I remember an article in Tageszeitung, the leading Green newspaper in Germany, where they reported on Russophone refugees from Eastern Ukraine in West Ukraine who were in some kind of programme to learn Ukrainian so they would eventually stop speaking Russian...reported in what seemed to me like a tone of sympathy).

    we have active Polish conservative here now too
     
    I remember that commenter from a few years ago. Not overly impressed by him, but I've seen he's already managed to trigger AP with negative comments about the Ukrainian "brothers". Very funny.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Coconuts

    Some truth to that (though it also leaves out many inconvenient facts), but doesn’t really explain why so many Western progressives have adopted a crusader mentality regarding this war that’s totally at odds with the pacifistic values they once claimed to hold, or why people who are stridently anti-national in other contexts suddenly feel enthusiastic about the attempts of Ukrainian nationalists to create a monolithic national culture replete with dubious myths and no space for the Russian language…

    I used this a while ago in another reply but… I think it is because for these progressives Ukraine represents what is written on the left hand side, or the potential for it, and Russia represents what is written on the right hand side:

    Liberty, progress and reason vs. Feudalism, reaction and violence.

    Economics, technology and industry vs. The State, war and politics.

    Parliamentarianism vs. Dictatorship.

    From the progressive pov the right hand side is the enemy of humanity side so it is okay to want to crush the supporters of that.

    If you add some of the other general tendencies in progressive politics at the moment like placing high value on action and activism, the pursuit of a general vision or ideal over specifics and emphasising political will as shaping reality, I think you can see how they get to their positions more.

  686. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).
     
    By the natural environment but not by the man-made environment.

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age.
     
    This is only true for the last 100+ years.

    But there were enormous opportunities for changes in the thousands of years since agriculture, and in the hundreds of years since urbanization and larger towns.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    It’s just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history,
     
    Now multiply the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.

    70,000 years ago there may have only been 10,000 people.

    12,000 years ago there were an estimated 2 million people. One generation 5000 years ago was the equivalent of 200 generations 70,000 years ago, in terms of the odds of a helpful mutation appearing.

    5000 years ago there were 45 million.

    And then consider the radically different environment, that would encourage the spread of mutations that would help in the new environment but that would have been useless in the old one (and so would not spread). People who had the same lifestyle for 10,000 years would not change much during that time, because any mutations would be less likely to be particularly helpful.

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment. Of course, dominant alleles are always selected, even if they are detrimental, as long as they are not lethal.

    [MORE]

    Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations. Absent a mutagen, the rate of mutation remains rather constant. And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good (no allele can be universally useful).

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies. It was hardly an entirely positive trade-in.

    A wolf has a 10 – 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature. An average modern human has around 10% lower brain volume than a Paleolithic megafauna hunter. A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia.

    In most places where the Western civilization has reached we can hardly find a primeval forest, let alone a truly mature ecosystem that has reached its climax (measures as maximum diversity of species and lowest entropy overall). The natural complexity has been greatly reduced by the civilization. And so has also been the potential of future evolution, because much genetic diversity has been lost.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings. We have undergone self-domestication, as wolves would if they learned themselves playing tricks and running after balls thrown at them generations after generations.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were ?

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db377.htm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/25/depression-and-anxiety-double-in-youth-compared-to-pre-pandemic/

    https://www.science.org/content/article/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity

    These are also the results of civilization. Perhaps we should not cherry pick and only choose what is positive about it. It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations. It was massive degradation of natural environment and squandering of natural ressources. Civilization was a trade-off with gains and losses to it. Perhaps the more it goes, and the more gains will be reduced and losses become apparent. It might well lead to humanity’s demise.

    12 000 years is a tiny speck on a biological time-frame.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.

    It was good for a time, until it wasn’t.

    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.

    Before the overdose.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.
    It was good for a time, until it wasn’t.
    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.
    Before the overdose.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXycGvKvj0&
    list=PLpGFUcLNHueZDw1Ch9_eaEo0mNqoq6unr&index=9&ab_channel=GigiYoung

    If you go to 12:55 and mute the sound it's great.

    The woman who narrates the video is an alien abduction evangelist, talks like a robot, and is completely bugnuts. Whoever produced it is master of video clips.

    I believe you are overthinking the textbook questions; Who am I; Where did I come from; and Where am I going?

    userid, mom's vag 9 months after she boinked dad, a grave like all other humans will answer these questions for 99.99% of all practical purposes. Your boss and the tax man don't care at all to cite two obvious examples. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment...Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle
     
    Correct.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations.
     
    Which, in the presence of a radically different environment, produces accelerated evolution due to environmental pressure.

    And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good
     
    On balance they seem to have been though. People became more cooperative, more able to navigate increasingly complex social interactions due to greater population density, more capable of future-orientation and planning the mechanisms of planting, harvesting, planning for famines, etc.

    Moving beyond primitive hunter-gathers, pastoralists who domesticated livestock, leaned to ride the horse and manage the concomitant technology, established wide-ranging trade networks and hierarchies, also underwent significant positive evolutionary changes.

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies.
     
    People who don't hunt megafauna can indeed be smaller. And brain size correlates with body size. This doesn't mean that elephants or for that matter Neanderthals (who were bigger and had correspondingly larger brains than Homo Sapiens) are smarter than we are.

    The reduced protein intake combined with increased cognitive demands may have forced agricultural people to evolve more efficient brains. With later urbanization these advantages could be further maximized and enabled an explosion in cognitive power.

    The brain of Albert Einstein was of average overall size for modern humans (indeed, smaller than the mean), that is - it was much smaller than for a hunter-gatherer from 20,000 years ago. Was the hunter-gatherer smarter? No. Einstein's brain was organized in a way that maximized its performance without increasing its overall size:

    https://www.science.org/content/article/closer-look-einsteins-brain

    A wolf has a 10 – 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature
     
    Yes, and a wolf lives a much more complex life than does a lapdog. It's the opposite for hunter-gatherers versus modern humans.

    A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia
     
    The issue isn't predictability but complexity. A dog's world is more predictable but also less complex than a wolf's world.* But a post hunter-gatherer's world, while more predictable, is also far more complex than a primitive person's world.

    Modern humans have to navigate orders of magnitude more interpersonal relationships with a high degree of deft, they have to be literate, they need complex skills such as being able to drive with thousands of other humans, use various other machines, understand complex urban or suburban landscapes and understand what to obtain where, etc. A hunter-gather needs physical prowess, needs to know how to make and fix relatively simple tools, and has to remember where the game and the berries are.

    A modern human if he is eccentric and motivated enough can successfully go "tribal" and live off the land while still retaining his literacy, etc. But when for example Yanomami were brought into the modern world and tried to adjust they generally failed miserably.

    There are still some hunter--gatherers left, on the margins. You really think an Amazon tribesman, an Andaman islander, or African pygmy or bushman is wiser or smarter than we are?

    And throughout history, civilized people have encountered hunter-gathers. They did not view them as particularly wise or smart, but as primitive and dumb - at best, they were seen as having some cunning to them. In Australia, the Brits apparently hunted them like wild animals, for sport (or was that apocryphal?).

    Consider the Spaniards who came to the New World. They were capable of navigating across the ocean, of engaging in skilled diplomacy with the natives they found (both urban and primitive- tribal), reproducing their technology (i.e., making gunpowder from scratch from materials they found, fixing things), successful military strategy, and were also writing about what they saw, engaging in ideological disputes, building complex structures such as cathedrals and fortresses, appreciating and creating polyphonic music on multiple complex instruments.

    Do you really think these people were not as smart as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago? That they were not more evolved than them?

    The romantic idealization of tribals is strong but is not based on reality.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings
     
    We are creatures of nature, not "unnatural." So everything we do is natural, it's simply very complex. As a mouse is more complex than a bacterium - both are equally natural. A beaver dam or bird's nest is natural. So is a cathedral or a sculpture. One should cherish all of nature, even the parts that are made by the hand of man.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were
     
    I wouldn't compare modern Western problems that have arisen in the last 20 years - to how people were 20,000 years ago.

    It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations.
     
    Well, we know that the death rate by violence for primitive peoples was far higher than for settled populations. About 30% of hunter-gatherers have their lives ended by being stabbed or having their skulls bashed in by another hunter-gatherer. True in modern times and in the past, based on archeological excavations. This is probably an improvement over non-human animals, of course.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom
     
    Small, unstable species population that nearly went extinct c. 70,000 years ago was much less fit than what came later. I'm not sure that being utterly dependent on the vagaries of game access and weather or climate was "freedom."

    *A dog has a much smaller social circle than a wolf, only his family rather than a pack and no hope of becoming pack leader, and doesn't do much (but I suspect that certain breeds of dogs such as complex sheep-herding dogs are as smart as wolves).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  687. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Wokechoke

    All bids for power are in the end gambles - or gambits, if you prefer. No one ever knows beforehand if they will work. It's always a risk - which is why the phrase fortune favors the bold was coined.

    I've had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man - that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability. There are plenty of capable people.

    The British who conquered their empire were risk-takers and adventurers - they didn't have a grand plan, they exploited opportunity as it arose, and didn't have too many scruples about their behavior.

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they "lost their nerve" - but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they “lost their nerve” – but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    There is something in that, didn’t someone say at some point that Britain acquired an empire in a state of absentmindedness and lost it in the same way? People often refer to the lack of a British imperial vision (compared to Portugal, France, Spain etc.), one had to be improvised after the fact and it died in the years following WW1.

    I would add the factors of competition from more powerful rising rivals (USA, Germany, Russian Empire/USSR, Japan), plus the impact on the colonies of British activity. Once mass politics started to arrive in India, British rule wasn’t going to be sustainable.

    More recently you can get the feeling that Britain became not just bored and lethargic about having an empire, but ambiguous about being a country in general. OTOH the spirit of Bobus Higgins still lives as referred to earlier in the thread, and modern Bobuses haven’t lost their enthusiasm for marketing sausage, so it hasn’t all gone.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Well, there is a theory that Britain deliberately dissolved its empire in order to free its 'subaltern" nations, as post-colonial studies like to call them. You saw this very well in a case of Rhodesia which lost the support of metropolis at some point.
    This process of undermining would be stimulated by semi-secret organizations like Fabian Society, Round Table of Lord Milner etc. By swapping the interests of metropolis for interests of its subjects, the process looks structurally similar to moving focus from Cro-Magnon to Neanderthals in research.
    Dissolving UK would be similar process of giving sovereignty back to Scots, the Welsh, the Irish.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Coconuts

    All good points. Increased competition, locals adopting political institutions from Britain, etc.

    One of the cuter things about European colonialism is that it had a certain code that it adhered to, however rapacious it was, at least in its later stages - for instance, taking over a country was justified as bringing civilization to primitive peoples.

    But if you agreed to modernize and adopt European institutions, that offered you significant protection. Thailand for instance avoided becoming colonized this way - although both France and Britain also wanted a neutral buffer zone. Japan also avoided being colonized by modernizing.

    People on the political right underestimate how important the "moral veneer" is to any imperial project - naked power grabs and pure selfishness are not sustainable long term. The rights powerlessness is directly tied to it's lack of moral justification and embrace of naked selfishness, and the lefts increasingly shaky hold on power is tied to it's recent moral overreach - an increasingly obvious politics of racial resentment bringing into question it's claim to occupy the moral high ground.

    Britain was always famous for improvising as it went along, and relying on gut feelings rather than a master plan. "Muddling through", as it were.

    Japan had a similar style. But it served the British well, and is arguably a more effective way to conduct ones life than the sanitized abstractions of a rational plan that often can't map well onto a messy reality.

    I remember reading in some history book a discussion between some French and British official about this difference, and the British official pointing out French rationality and planning seems not to have given them the advantage.

  688. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The British lost their empire, some said, because they “lost their nerve” – but, I think, they just got bored with it.
     
    There is something in that, didn't someone say at some point that Britain acquired an empire in a state of absentmindedness and lost it in the same way? People often refer to the lack of a British imperial vision (compared to Portugal, France, Spain etc.), one had to be improvised after the fact and it died in the years following WW1.

    I would add the factors of competition from more powerful rising rivals (USA, Germany, Russian Empire/USSR, Japan), plus the impact on the colonies of British activity. Once mass politics started to arrive in India, British rule wasn't going to be sustainable.

    More recently you can get the feeling that Britain became not just bored and lethargic about having an empire, but ambiguous about being a country in general. OTOH the spirit of Bobus Higgins still lives as referred to earlier in the thread, and modern Bobuses haven't lost their enthusiasm for marketing sausage, so it hasn't all gone.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, there is a theory that Britain deliberately dissolved its empire in order to free its ‘subaltern” nations, as post-colonial studies like to call them. You saw this very well in a case of Rhodesia which lost the support of metropolis at some point.
    This process of undermining would be stimulated by semi-secret organizations like Fabian Society, Round Table of Lord Milner etc. By swapping the interests of metropolis for interests of its subjects, the process looks structurally similar to moving focus from Cro-Magnon to Neanderthals in research.
    Dissolving UK would be similar process of giving sovereignty back to Scots, the Welsh, the Irish.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In UK, it is the establishment of around 40000 people who really take decisions, so talking that the "British people as a whole got bored" etc like HMS is doing by resurrecting Asabiyah theory of Ibn Khaldun, does not make much sense.

    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures. This is what "king is the head of Commonwealth states" really means. Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  689. @German_reader
    https://newsingermany.com/defense-ukraine-demands-cluster-munitions-and-phosphorus-incendiary-weapons/

    Ukraine demands controversial from its Western backers cluster munitions and phosphorus incendiary weapons to fight against Russia. The United States and a number of other allies would have millions of shots from it, said Deputy Prime Minister Olexander Kubrakow on Friday evening at the Munich Security Conference. Russia uses this type of weaponry every day. “Why can’t we use them? It’s our territory,” he said. He understands the difficulties because of conventions. But this type of ammunition can help to withstand the attackers.

    Kubrakov was alluding to the fact that the use of cluster munitions is outlawed under international law. Cluster munitions are rockets and bombs that burst in mid-air over the target, releasing many small explosive devices. Phosphorus munitions can cause severe burns and poisoning in humans.
     
    Getting better and better...

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    You point out the request by Ukraine for use of the US cluster munition stocks in order to tut-tut, but, honest question, have you previously even complained once about Russia’s actual use of cluster munitions in their invasion of Ukraine until now, and, if not, why not?

    Generally, I’d expect someone who is able to remain even-minded and still listen to and understand both sides, to nonetheless get much more annoyed by the year of use of the “bad” munition, than the request to use the bad munitions after a year of them being used against them.

    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/08/25/growing-civilian-toll-russian-cluster-munition-attacks

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?
     
    No, because you're not arguing in good faith anyway, and because your "arguments" are indistinguishable from the propaganda drivel in the msm.
    But one aspect of this crazy request is that it probably means the military situation for Ukraine is pretty bad. The stated goals of Zelensky's government (total military victory over Russia, including re-conquest of Crimea and Donbass) are probably unachievable anyway, unless they somehow manage to bring about direct NATO intervention (which would have a good chance of destroying Central Europe at least). That's probably also one purpose of those continually escalating demands for new weapons systems, like fighter jets or cluster munitions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

  690. @Yahya
    @Sean

    You’re talking out of your ass.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941824/

    Replies: @Sean

    Try and get your mind off of my nether regions.

    Watson’s ‘sun and sex’ lecture upsets audience – Naturehttps://www.nature.com › nature medicine › news
    by BU MedicalSchool — Nobel Laureate James Watson was keeping quiet last month after reportedly claiming in a lecture that dark-skinned people have a stronger libido than …

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/no-wait-real-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180970950/
    The transition to white skin was in the Neolithic? No, it was in the Bronze Age

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Sean

    Believe there was some Roman writer who advised that black guard dogs were the best. His reasoning was that it was harder to see them at night, but, perhaps, he was just trying to explain it, and didn't know the real reason.

    I can believe it may have had another explanation, when people talk about prejudice against black dogs.

    Replies: @Sean

  691. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    I see you are a fan of manga, and you are starting to confuse manga with Japan. Manga is not about the life in Japan, manga is about a life the Japanese do not live, and about what is "cute" - like all these official mascots in Japan. It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too. You see mascots invaded Japan from anime, not vice versa.

    https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-culture-mascots/

    https://teamjapanese.com/japanese-mascots/


    A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive.

     

    This, however, is a joke on true phenomenon (but not natural one). Upskirt photography is a social phenomenon in Japan, testifying to cultural avoidance of expressing desire in Japan.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3150610/coronavirus-boredom-moves-japanese-perverts-upskirt


    I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice.
     
    It is not cringy, it is sincere. They simply investigate new culture, they probably took their worship of Japan a step further and decided to confront it with reality, unlike you. On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call "rudeness", really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
    Therefore, what many Westerners take as the high sophistication of culture, as communication without words, as you when you write

    shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese.
     
    is simply cultural repression. Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides and loneliness. Sion Sono "Suicide Club" could be about the phenomenon of Japanese groupthink taken to the extreme. In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present - the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death - when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BciJn9k9VlU

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yevardian, @songbird

    I happen to have known quite a few people of 100% Japanese descent who always felt a little awkward in the country that their parents or grandparents had immigrated to, partly because it is not 100% sensitive to people who look different, so, when young adults, those Japanese descendants tried moving to Japan, which they have a right to do and passports, but they swiftly found that living there was alienating and unpleasant, despite having even grown up speaking Japanese at home, and then returned to the country of their birth as outspoken patriots.

    If you talk to them, they will elaborate at length on how difficult Japanese society is and how they much they dislike the place. I am inclined to believe these people and think that Westerners just fantasise about a Japan which they are ignorant of.

    Now, is this because they are missing something and my belief in them misplaced? Quite possibly! But the phenomenon is very strong and those young Japanese are not returning from Japan to some famed locale of high functioning, like Austin or Copenhagen, but Brazil, and are easily the most patriotic well-educated Brazillians which I have met, despite facing some minor racism in their ordinary lives and having previously tried to retvrn to their ancestral homeland.

  692. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Coconuts

    Well, there is a theory that Britain deliberately dissolved its empire in order to free its 'subaltern" nations, as post-colonial studies like to call them. You saw this very well in a case of Rhodesia which lost the support of metropolis at some point.
    This process of undermining would be stimulated by semi-secret organizations like Fabian Society, Round Table of Lord Milner etc. By swapping the interests of metropolis for interests of its subjects, the process looks structurally similar to moving focus from Cro-Magnon to Neanderthals in research.
    Dissolving UK would be similar process of giving sovereignty back to Scots, the Welsh, the Irish.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    In UK, it is the establishment of around 40000 people who really take decisions, so talking that the “British people as a whole got bored” etc like HMS is doing by resurrecting Asabiyah theory of Ibn Khaldun, does not make much sense.

    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures. This is what “king is the head of Commonwealth states” really means. Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I might take a contrarian view and say that the monarchy, the aristocracy and the church, plus some other groups that make up the establishment are what created and sustained Britain and the idea of imperial vitality followed by decline does seem to make sense, as a recurring observable pattern.


    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures.
     
    Well, yes, afaik ultimate sovereignty still officially inheres in the person of the monarch in the British system. I think that's why the funeral of the last Queen was such a big occasion.

    Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.
     
    You can see that when Britain was a kingdom and closer to the old Scholastic 'mixed polity' under Natural Law, with the monarch, lords and commons, it became very powerful and dynamic.

    Whereas when people come to believe all sovereignty comes from the people, the British families that used to make up the population of the kingdom start to die out. It seems the mixed polity requires higher levels of vitality to sustain itself. A similar pattern is observable in a few Western European countries.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  693. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Wokechoke

    All bids for power are in the end gambles - or gambits, if you prefer. No one ever knows beforehand if they will work. It's always a risk - which is why the phrase fortune favors the bold was coined.

    I've had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man - that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability. There are plenty of capable people.

    The British who conquered their empire were risk-takers and adventurers - they didn't have a grand plan, they exploited opportunity as it arose, and didn't have too many scruples about their behavior.

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they "lost their nerve" - but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

    I’ve had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man – that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability.

    I assume these powerful people appreciate this highfalutin language of yours – they like everything which disguises the nature of their power, which you do with expressions like “people just got bored etc”. You are often like a priest protecting the powers, constantly reverting things to metaphysical level, be it real or not.

    However, what you forgot to say is that when these people take risk – any risk other than exercising their own bodies – they are protected from consequences of this risk taking. They almost never become poor etc. It is as someone told me once: “If you know the right people, you will get money for your new enterprise even if you have failed 5 times before.”. This is obviously not an offer for everyone in the world, though.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you completely misunderstand me - I'm surprised, because I'm quite clear about my values here.

    I think the desire for power is a disease. Those who have it suffer greatly. To need to take such risks for power indicates a deep inner lack, a sense of personal inadequacy. They are trying to confirm they have value.

    People get bored with power eventually precisely because they find it doesn't solve their inner lack. That is why every empire eventually crumbles - power and wealth don't solve the inner lack. Put another way, the essential boredom of empire (any project for wealth and power) is revealed often only after you've succeeded.

    Indeed, I discussed this on my recent posts on Hinduism, and yet I still get accused of being an apologist for power. I might have written here about the unhappiness and anxiety these pursuers of power suffer from l, seem from close up - and have in the past here, recently I believe.

    The problem is, most "normal" people are similarly stuck in illusions about power and wealth, so they see my descriptions as panegyrics on power, which they are not.

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue - to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society. I see no reason to deny the pursuers of wealth and power, miserable as they are, the shadow of a virtue. In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers - they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they've made the basic mistake.

    Moreover, our contemporary elite justifies itself through it's supposed technocratic efficiency - and I was at pains to deny that they are distinguished by ability. I was rather undermining the elite narrative.

    Finally, many risk takers crash and burn - that many succeed is merely the fact that "fortune favors the bold", but countless lives are also destroyed. We see this on the level of nations as well - some who are bold and reckless succeed beyond their wildest dreams, others crash and burn hard. Britain gained an empire, Russia is likely to emerge from it's reckless gambit vastly diminished.

    There is another factor here as well - the elite themselves are more likely to favor those who demonstrate the requisite mindset, and more likely to offer them opportunities after failure. Like is attracted to like. But the risk of ruin is extremely real - not least, from "doing it wrong", i.e, not fully grasping what, when, and how one can get away with things.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

  694. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I’ve had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man – that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability.
     
    I assume these powerful people appreciate this highfalutin language of yours - they like everything which disguises the nature of their power, which you do with expressions like "people just got bored etc". You are often like a priest protecting the powers, constantly reverting things to metaphysical level, be it real or not.

    However, what you forgot to say is that when these people take risk - any risk other than exercising their own bodies - they are protected from consequences of this risk taking. They almost never become poor etc. It is as someone told me once: "If you know the right people, you will get money for your new enterprise even if you have failed 5 times before.". This is obviously not an offer for everyone in the world, though.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Lol, you completely misunderstand me – I’m surprised, because I’m quite clear about my values here.

    I think the desire for power is a disease. Those who have it suffer greatly. To need to take such risks for power indicates a deep inner lack, a sense of personal inadequacy. They are trying to confirm they have value.

    People get bored with power eventually precisely because they find it doesn’t solve their inner lack. That is why every empire eventually crumbles – power and wealth don’t solve the inner lack. Put another way, the essential boredom of empire (any project for wealth and power) is revealed often only after you’ve succeeded.

    Indeed, I discussed this on my recent posts on Hinduism, and yet I still get accused of being an apologist for power. I might have written here about the unhappiness and anxiety these pursuers of power suffer from l, seem from close up – and have in the past here, recently I believe.

    The problem is, most “normal” people are similarly stuck in illusions about power and wealth, so they see my descriptions as panegyrics on power, which they are not.

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue – to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society. I see no reason to deny the pursuers of wealth and power, miserable as they are, the shadow of a virtue. In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers – they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they’ve made the basic mistake.

    Moreover, our contemporary elite justifies itself through it’s supposed technocratic efficiency – and I was at pains to deny that they are distinguished by ability. I was rather undermining the elite narrative.

    Finally, many risk takers crash and burn – that many succeed is merely the fact that “fortune favors the bold”, but countless lives are also destroyed. We see this on the level of nations as well – some who are bold and reckless succeed beyond their wildest dreams, others crash and burn hard. Britain gained an empire, Russia is likely to emerge from it’s reckless gambit vastly diminished.

    There is another factor here as well – the elite themselves are more likely to favor those who demonstrate the requisite mindset, and more likely to offer them opportunities after failure. Like is attracted to like. But the risk of ruin is extremely real – not least, from “doing it wrong”, i.e, not fully grasping what, when, and how one can get away with things.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    In addition, a willingness to take risks does not mean you've "earned" your wealth or position - it's quite consistent with cheating and robbery, or taking advantage of wicked and unjust social structures.

    I am, after all, a socialist :)

    But in my view, the chief distinguishing feature of the elite is primarily a stronger will to power, not intelligence or ability - it's a bit entangled, though, as will to power - motivation, "skin in the game" - affects ones ability to solve problems, a fact well encapsulated in the old adage "necessity is the mother of invention" (which is why we don't - and probably never can - know how much IQ is genetic, as you can't really test for motivation).

    And this is something that is different from the official narrative and well worth noting - and in my rather informal comparative anthropology lol, that my travels and movements between cultures have given me the opportunity to do, I've found often that differences in will to power are one of the most significant and wide ranging metrics humans can differ on.

    And yet our culture doesn't discuss it - probably because acknowledging that people want power unequally calls into question the validity of the quest for power, the primary activity of the elite.

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue – to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society.
     
    Depends who you are. That is no longer bold risk-taking for you, but tepid comfort. I'd like to see you take the bold risk of going with society and family on something, and against your static image of yourself.

    In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers – they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they’ve made the basic mistake.
     
    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called "slave morality."

    Maybe this story will help you see things without your prejudices: take the example of an anorexic teenage girl. Is she shrinking to take up no space, or is she basically just aggressively taking up all of the space?

    Imagine the family sat at the dinner table, with the girl, all knowing that she will pretend to eat food and may well be dying in a horrible and depressing way. Is her silence not then deafening? Is anyone thinking about anything else? Does she not totally dominate the room despite supposedly being innocent? And is that not actually precisely why she has found her way to anorexia? It is a megalomaniac power play that the vast majority of people don't have an answer for, and is often revenge against one or both parents, usually the mother.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Wokechoke

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, write then an exemplum of a person with the strongest will to power you ever met, how you detected that in his/her life, what was his/her inner lack... that could be instructive lest you turn it all into pure metaphysics again... in other words, a part of exemplum are facts which a reader can judge on his own.

    I still have some doubts that our ruling oligarchy is highly competitive among themselves... there is a reason why William Henry Gates III, a son of banker (of course), has been presented to the broad public as Bill Gates from the suburbs who works in his garage on primitive DOS personal computers - the myth of competition has to be preserved among plebes above all. Because oligarchs already know that lineage counts.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  695. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In UK, it is the establishment of around 40000 people who really take decisions, so talking that the "British people as a whole got bored" etc like HMS is doing by resurrecting Asabiyah theory of Ibn Khaldun, does not make much sense.

    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures. This is what "king is the head of Commonwealth states" really means. Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I might take a contrarian view and say that the monarchy, the aristocracy and the church, plus some other groups that make up the establishment are what created and sustained Britain and the idea of imperial vitality followed by decline does seem to make sense, as a recurring observable pattern.

    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures.

    Well, yes, afaik ultimate sovereignty still officially inheres in the person of the monarch in the British system. I think that’s why the funeral of the last Queen was such a big occasion.

    Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.

    You can see that when Britain was a kingdom and closer to the old Scholastic ‘mixed polity’ under Natural Law, with the monarch, lords and commons, it became very powerful and dynamic.

    Whereas when people come to believe all sovereignty comes from the people, the British families that used to make up the population of the kingdom start to die out. It seems the mixed polity requires higher levels of vitality to sustain itself. A similar pattern is observable in a few Western European countries.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Coconuts

    I should've added that the idea of a private domain, if this is based on some liberal and voluntaristic idea of private property is not the right way of describing the monarch and the lords' power.

  696. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you completely misunderstand me - I'm surprised, because I'm quite clear about my values here.

    I think the desire for power is a disease. Those who have it suffer greatly. To need to take such risks for power indicates a deep inner lack, a sense of personal inadequacy. They are trying to confirm they have value.

    People get bored with power eventually precisely because they find it doesn't solve their inner lack. That is why every empire eventually crumbles - power and wealth don't solve the inner lack. Put another way, the essential boredom of empire (any project for wealth and power) is revealed often only after you've succeeded.

    Indeed, I discussed this on my recent posts on Hinduism, and yet I still get accused of being an apologist for power. I might have written here about the unhappiness and anxiety these pursuers of power suffer from l, seem from close up - and have in the past here, recently I believe.

    The problem is, most "normal" people are similarly stuck in illusions about power and wealth, so they see my descriptions as panegyrics on power, which they are not.

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue - to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society. I see no reason to deny the pursuers of wealth and power, miserable as they are, the shadow of a virtue. In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers - they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they've made the basic mistake.

    Moreover, our contemporary elite justifies itself through it's supposed technocratic efficiency - and I was at pains to deny that they are distinguished by ability. I was rather undermining the elite narrative.

    Finally, many risk takers crash and burn - that many succeed is merely the fact that "fortune favors the bold", but countless lives are also destroyed. We see this on the level of nations as well - some who are bold and reckless succeed beyond their wildest dreams, others crash and burn hard. Britain gained an empire, Russia is likely to emerge from it's reckless gambit vastly diminished.

    There is another factor here as well - the elite themselves are more likely to favor those who demonstrate the requisite mindset, and more likely to offer them opportunities after failure. Like is attracted to like. But the risk of ruin is extremely real - not least, from "doing it wrong", i.e, not fully grasping what, when, and how one can get away with things.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

    In addition, a willingness to take risks does not mean you’ve “earned” your wealth or position – it’s quite consistent with cheating and robbery, or taking advantage of wicked and unjust social structures.

    I am, after all, a socialist 🙂

    But in my view, the chief distinguishing feature of the elite is primarily a stronger will to power, not intelligence or ability – it’s a bit entangled, though, as will to power – motivation, “skin in the game” – affects ones ability to solve problems, a fact well encapsulated in the old adage “necessity is the mother of invention” (which is why we don’t – and probably never can – know how much IQ is genetic, as you can’t really test for motivation).

    And this is something that is different from the official narrative and well worth noting – and in my rather informal comparative anthropology lol, that my travels and movements between cultures have given me the opportunity to do, I’ve found often that differences in will to power are one of the most significant and wide ranging metrics humans can differ on.

    And yet our culture doesn’t discuss it – probably because acknowledging that people want power unequally calls into question the validity of the quest for power, the primary activity of the elite.

  697. @Coconuts
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I might take a contrarian view and say that the monarchy, the aristocracy and the church, plus some other groups that make up the establishment are what created and sustained Britain and the idea of imperial vitality followed by decline does seem to make sense, as a recurring observable pattern.


    This is evident in the fact that the Supreme Court of British Commonwealth is the Royal Privy Council made out of establishment figures.
     
    Well, yes, afaik ultimate sovereignty still officially inheres in the person of the monarch in the British system. I think that's why the funeral of the last Queen was such a big occasion.

    Commonwealth is like private domain of the British king & his friends, not of people of UK.
     
    You can see that when Britain was a kingdom and closer to the old Scholastic 'mixed polity' under Natural Law, with the monarch, lords and commons, it became very powerful and dynamic.

    Whereas when people come to believe all sovereignty comes from the people, the British families that used to make up the population of the kingdom start to die out. It seems the mixed polity requires higher levels of vitality to sustain itself. A similar pattern is observable in a few Western European countries.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I should’ve added that the idea of a private domain, if this is based on some liberal and voluntaristic idea of private property is not the right way of describing the monarch and the lords’ power.

  698. @Mr. Hack
    @Sean


    That Russia fights like hell does not mean they are going to avoid a humiliating defeat.
     
    This could be, but you haven't at all substantiated that the Russian military has been "fighting like hell". If this were indeed the case, why have they been pushed back in important battles like in Kyiv, Kherson or Kharkiv?

    Replies: @Sean

    Were Russia to fight like hell and suffer reverses, that would not necessarily mean when faced with being forced out of all Ukrainian territory they are going to even toy with the idea of avoiding a humiliating defeat by detonating thermonuclear theatre weapons on the Ukrainian armed forces. One can easily imagine the Russians realising Putin and his circle made a mistake in invading, the generals being extremely reluctant to nuke Ukraine and even Putin understanding that his legacy would not survive such a doubling down.

    I just don’t think it is likely to happen that way because states with great power status have an internal logic of their own that does not brook being fenced in by enemy alliances and embargoes, or economically strangles. Mearsheimer cites the Japanese attack on Peal Harbour, which Jap leadership understood to be starting something that was quite likely to not have a good ending.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABCD_line
    Japan saw it as an a stranglehold, one they had to break out of. That being the case they decided to fight the West. Journalist who have talked to ordinary Russian soldiers recently say they think it is the opening of what will become WW3. I simply think on balance Putin

    The harder and more effectively the Russian military fight, the less relevant is what I am saying. The decisions I am talking about would–if ever taken–be the prerogative of the highest authorities in the Kremlin and require only a few top generals to approve of them. The US/ Ukrainian assassination campaign against top Russian commanders (including the army’s head of electronic warfare who was surely targeted) has probably led to the surviving Russian generals being royally pissed off at Ukraine and in a mood to do something egregious to it. Fact is America in not going to start a nuclear war just to completely defeat Russia in Ukraine. Russia has already failed in its original objectives and shown and whatever gains it makes will be made at a cost the innately cautious Putin never dreamt of when deciding to go ahead with it. He underestimated Ukraine and has shown the world that Russia has been overestimated

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  699. @Gerard1234
    @AP


    You would be an expert, because you are from Donbas which is the epicentre of HIV in Europe.

     

    LMAO - so the fantasist fucktard, who can shamelessly lie like this precisely because he has zero connection to the land of 404, continues his nonsense. This makes the "landlocked PLC " garbage seem a sane statement by comparison and all the rest. Or to go with the fake "ukrainian" act is the fake doctor act - you know the one who in statements on here clearly does not know what is HIV and what is AIDS. Anyway:

    Lvov has a higher rate of HIV than Lugansk you retarded bag of shit.

    Donetsk is not even in the top 3 oblasts of HIV in Ukraine/404

    You and your Polish, Tsarist , Polish-Tsarist -doctor and whatever scumbag alter-ego accounts ( WTF?) have about a trillion times tried to propagate this nonsense about HIV in the form of some map/chart to occupy your "life"- even though it CLEARLY shows Odessa and Nikolaev as the top regions for prevalence (with regions like Rivne and Volyn "overperforming"). What type of amoebic freakshow does that for a living, LOL? Anyway Odessa is where it started in USSR( for probably similar reasons as Durban region in South Africa has biggest rate and other port cities)

    Just because Lvov/Spasticsville has had high rates of inbreeding and deformed children doesn't mean Spasticsville cant also have an extreme whoring problem.....and reputation for it that it does


    Because you are a zero-life sociopathic with extreme mental problems ...you continue, as with everything else, to repeat this extreme lie, even though across all the sites that you spam ( English language only of course, LOL) you must have been corrected on this issues several times. Can anybody explain why this piece of shit is allowed on here? Sure there is the ignorance part of not knowing these places in 404 because he has never been there, but the frequency of this shows an addiction to deliberately lie.

    Its a literal fact that Oksana-whores from Lvov and Ivano-Frankovsk over the last 30 years , have by far , gone to Donbass and Kiev en masse to earn some money and make something of their life, away from zero-talent and prosperity Galicia.......than has happened vice-versa

    Even with all this demolishing of your idiocy - the fact remains that Urban population increases the infection spread in an exponential, not linear way. If Donbass in 90% urban, but Galicia is 50% rural - so Donbass has 5 times more urban population in proportion. HIV rate should be multiple times bigger.....but it isn't. Galicia/western Ukraine having say 15% less prevalance rate than Donbass (which it doesn't, quite the inverse as I said with Lugansk with Lvov), clearly indicates that its Galicia with the whoring, desperation problem you imbecile. Just as it suffers with lack of good doctors, non-existant good standard hospitals, and hospital high-tech equipment.

    Then there is the pattern or TB, Kor and lack of vaccinations in anything for Galicia compared to anywhere else in 404

    HIV was much higher in US in 1990's than in Russian world. US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent mass supply of opiates is what exploded it in Russian world. The negative side effects of where there is trade, business, industry and people.......Galicia has next to none of this.....its clear that explains its HIV explosion, not anything to do with injections but the STD's are it substantial prostitution industry.

    Ask anybody in the west about Lvov over the years. 92% have never heard of it , 3% are Polish diaspora, 2% are Jews , the remaining 3% of deviant sex tourists , LOL.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Mr. Hack

    Good luck on your speaking tour (unfortunately, confined only to Russia), as well as your concert travels! Unfortunately, as you well know, Europe and North America would be cut off for you to dazzle the audiences with your wit and artistic expression. Maybe it’s better this way, as Russia needs at least a few of its most talented obscurantists to stay put and feed Russia’s insatiable need for carnival antics.

    Geraldina’s tales of the absurd. 🙂

  700. @German_reader
    @AP


    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias
     
    He's actually pretty fair and doesn't spare Polish patriotic feelings, there's a lot about anti-Ukrainian discrimination in interwar Poland in the book. He also mentions atrocities against Ukrainian civilians by Polish AK during WW2 and by Polish soldiers in the post-war era. He's even critical of the discourse among Polish Kresowiacy, saying that it's one-sided and not free of vindictiveness.
    Regarding WW2, he even goes so far as saying that not everybody in OUN/UPA was a killer or fanatic, that people may have had various motives for joining it etc. But it's still pretty damning, couldn't be otherwise. Of course all of this should be ancient history by now. But it isn't, not least because part of the Ukrainian diaspora and then political forces in independent Ukraine turned these people into national heroes, made them a key part of their identity etc. (instead of forgetting about them, as might have been more prudent).

    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism.
     
    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.

    Replies: @Ferraro, @AP

    Ukrainians in the past who fought for independence for Ukraine under extreme adversarial conditions, should be seen as heroes by Ukrainians today. This is normal and healthy. This idea that nations shouldn’t have heroes who did bad things, whether those bad things were necessary or unnecessary, or even real or not, is preposterous considering human history. The Mongolians are not abandoning Genghis Khan’s memory.

  701. @German_reader
    @AP

    I suppose that means the war and the loss of Donbass has its upside, at least Donbass people won't be able to tarnish Ukraine's good reputation with their loose morals now.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    You are being facetious; I think these people ought to be saved. Ukraine couldn’t do it, so I support Donbas’ expulsion from Ukraine, not its violent destruction.

    But since 2014, Russia has chosen to just ruin it and disperse its people.

  702. @sudden death
    @Ivashka the fool


    I have indeed linked a Gagarin anti-war meme on the previous thread. Perhaps this meme carried a malware ?
     
    Is it in principle really possible for non-executable program, but simply picture/video file of any format to contain some infection (virus, trojan, rootkit, etc.) these days?

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I don’t know. My knowledge in this field is very limited. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the internet security might tell us more.

  703. @Coconuts
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The British lost their empire, some said, because they “lost their nerve” – but, I think, they just got bored with it.
     
    There is something in that, didn't someone say at some point that Britain acquired an empire in a state of absentmindedness and lost it in the same way? People often refer to the lack of a British imperial vision (compared to Portugal, France, Spain etc.), one had to be improvised after the fact and it died in the years following WW1.

    I would add the factors of competition from more powerful rising rivals (USA, Germany, Russian Empire/USSR, Japan), plus the impact on the colonies of British activity. Once mass politics started to arrive in India, British rule wasn't going to be sustainable.

    More recently you can get the feeling that Britain became not just bored and lethargic about having an empire, but ambiguous about being a country in general. OTOH the spirit of Bobus Higgins still lives as referred to earlier in the thread, and modern Bobuses haven't lost their enthusiasm for marketing sausage, so it hasn't all gone.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    All good points. Increased competition, locals adopting political institutions from Britain, etc.

    One of the cuter things about European colonialism is that it had a certain code that it adhered to, however rapacious it was, at least in its later stages – for instance, taking over a country was justified as bringing civilization to primitive peoples.

    But if you agreed to modernize and adopt European institutions, that offered you significant protection. Thailand for instance avoided becoming colonized this way – although both France and Britain also wanted a neutral buffer zone. Japan also avoided being colonized by modernizing.

    People on the political right underestimate how important the “moral veneer” is to any imperial project – naked power grabs and pure selfishness are not sustainable long term. The rights powerlessness is directly tied to it’s lack of moral justification and embrace of naked selfishness, and the lefts increasingly shaky hold on power is tied to it’s recent moral overreach – an increasingly obvious politics of racial resentment bringing into question it’s claim to occupy the moral high ground.

    Britain was always famous for improvising as it went along, and relying on gut feelings rather than a master plan. “Muddling through”, as it were.

    Japan had a similar style. But it served the British well, and is arguably a more effective way to conduct ones life than the sanitized abstractions of a rational plan that often can’t map well onto a messy reality.

    I remember reading in some history book a discussion between some French and British official about this difference, and the British official pointing out French rationality and planning seems not to have given them the advantage.

  704. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you completely misunderstand me - I'm surprised, because I'm quite clear about my values here.

    I think the desire for power is a disease. Those who have it suffer greatly. To need to take such risks for power indicates a deep inner lack, a sense of personal inadequacy. They are trying to confirm they have value.

    People get bored with power eventually precisely because they find it doesn't solve their inner lack. That is why every empire eventually crumbles - power and wealth don't solve the inner lack. Put another way, the essential boredom of empire (any project for wealth and power) is revealed often only after you've succeeded.

    Indeed, I discussed this on my recent posts on Hinduism, and yet I still get accused of being an apologist for power. I might have written here about the unhappiness and anxiety these pursuers of power suffer from l, seem from close up - and have in the past here, recently I believe.

    The problem is, most "normal" people are similarly stuck in illusions about power and wealth, so they see my descriptions as panegyrics on power, which they are not.

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue - to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society. I see no reason to deny the pursuers of wealth and power, miserable as they are, the shadow of a virtue. In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers - they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they've made the basic mistake.

    Moreover, our contemporary elite justifies itself through it's supposed technocratic efficiency - and I was at pains to deny that they are distinguished by ability. I was rather undermining the elite narrative.

    Finally, many risk takers crash and burn - that many succeed is merely the fact that "fortune favors the bold", but countless lives are also destroyed. We see this on the level of nations as well - some who are bold and reckless succeed beyond their wildest dreams, others crash and burn hard. Britain gained an empire, Russia is likely to emerge from it's reckless gambit vastly diminished.

    There is another factor here as well - the elite themselves are more likely to favor those who demonstrate the requisite mindset, and more likely to offer them opportunities after failure. Like is attracted to like. But the risk of ruin is extremely real - not least, from "doing it wrong", i.e, not fully grasping what, when, and how one can get away with things.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue – to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society.

    Depends who you are. That is no longer bold risk-taking for you, but tepid comfort. I’d like to see you take the bold risk of going with society and family on something, and against your static image of yourself.

    In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers – they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they’ve made the basic mistake.

    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called “slave morality.”

    Maybe this story will help you see things without your prejudices: take the example of an anorexic teenage girl. Is she shrinking to take up no space, or is she basically just aggressively taking up all of the space?

    Imagine the family sat at the dinner table, with the girl, all knowing that she will pretend to eat food and may well be dying in a horrible and depressing way. Is her silence not then deafening? Is anyone thinking about anything else? Does she not totally dominate the room despite supposedly being innocent? And is that not actually precisely why she has found her way to anorexia? It is a megalomaniac power play that the vast majority of people don’t have an answer for, and is often revenge against one or both parents, usually the mother.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity - ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.

    You're asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain :) To "self-overcome" for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you're presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn't exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense - but in a a universe where objective value exists, self-overcoming should only be exercised in pursuit of the genuinely valuable.

    So - which of society's and family's values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world - so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree :)

    As for my "static" self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it - in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I'm not interested in change for the sake of change :)

    As you don't believe in objective value, Laxa, you are ultimately a nihilist who proposes actions not oriented to some higher good, but actions for actions sake - modern "freedom", I suppose :)


    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called “slave morality.”

     

    Here, for once, you are actually correct one level, which I shall address first :)

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient - the seeker after power and wealth thinks finite power and finite - wealth - and all personal accretions that accrue to the individual as distinct from others and the universe are, by definition, finite (not All, only a part) - but finds eventually that his appetite is insatiable and just grows with the feeding, and he remains on a treadmill of unhappiness.

    If he is lucky, it will eventually dawn him that a "part", however big, will never satisfy him. The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less - but that isn't, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a "part".

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak :)

    Now, about the "slave morality" thing - as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.

    Of course, some people use powerlessness as a form of manipulation, revenge, or resentment - not because they identify with the All at all.

    Nietzsche made the mistake of not understanding metaphysics, which he denied were real. He didn't see how one could identify with the All, and believing in a world of disconnected discrete objects, the vision of modernity, he naturally could not see how the obvious human sense of inadequacy - which he so vividly observed and felt - could be satisfied by anything other than personal power at the expense of others (which even he realized, in this scheme, was insatiable. He posted a will to power that is never satisfied).

    So for him, surrendering personal power could only be a move in the game of personal power - when it may actually be the final realization move that takes you out of that game and into the highest level of power, where it no longer resembles itself even :)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    , @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Every Anorexic I’ve met has recently lost a dad or mother or a pet. Loss of weight in extremis can occur after a break up.

    what are you talking about?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  705. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Lol, you completely misunderstand me - I'm surprised, because I'm quite clear about my values here.

    I think the desire for power is a disease. Those who have it suffer greatly. To need to take such risks for power indicates a deep inner lack, a sense of personal inadequacy. They are trying to confirm they have value.

    People get bored with power eventually precisely because they find it doesn't solve their inner lack. That is why every empire eventually crumbles - power and wealth don't solve the inner lack. Put another way, the essential boredom of empire (any project for wealth and power) is revealed often only after you've succeeded.

    Indeed, I discussed this on my recent posts on Hinduism, and yet I still get accused of being an apologist for power. I might have written here about the unhappiness and anxiety these pursuers of power suffer from l, seem from close up - and have in the past here, recently I believe.

    The problem is, most "normal" people are similarly stuck in illusions about power and wealth, so they see my descriptions as panegyrics on power, which they are not.

    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue - to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society. I see no reason to deny the pursuers of wealth and power, miserable as they are, the shadow of a virtue. In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers - they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they've made the basic mistake.

    Moreover, our contemporary elite justifies itself through it's supposed technocratic efficiency - and I was at pains to deny that they are distinguished by ability. I was rather undermining the elite narrative.

    Finally, many risk takers crash and burn - that many succeed is merely the fact that "fortune favors the bold", but countless lives are also destroyed. We see this on the level of nations as well - some who are bold and reckless succeed beyond their wildest dreams, others crash and burn hard. Britain gained an empire, Russia is likely to emerge from it's reckless gambit vastly diminished.

    There is another factor here as well - the elite themselves are more likely to favor those who demonstrate the requisite mindset, and more likely to offer them opportunities after failure. Like is attracted to like. But the risk of ruin is extremely real - not least, from "doing it wrong", i.e, not fully grasping what, when, and how one can get away with things.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Leaves No Shadow, @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, write then an exemplum of a person with the strongest will to power you ever met, how you detected that in his/her life, what was his/her inner lack… that could be instructive lest you turn it all into pure metaphysics again… in other words, a part of exemplum are facts which a reader can judge on his own.

    I still have some doubts that our ruling oligarchy is highly competitive among themselves… there is a reason why William Henry Gates III, a son of banker (of course), has been presented to the broad public as Bill Gates from the suburbs who works in his garage on primitive DOS personal computers – the myth of competition has to be preserved among plebes above all. Because oligarchs already know that lineage counts.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Long ago I remember reading Peter Thiel, an early investor in Facebook, recounting how shocked he was at Zuckerberg calmly rejecting what he thought was a phenomenally huge offer, and telling the investors that of course they will hold out for much, much more.

    Zuckerberg evidently had a significantly greater desire for power than Thiel - no slouch himself in that department - and a willingness to engage in nail biting brinkmanship to get it.

    That's a good illustration of differentials in will to power - Thiel merely wanted to be wealthy and powerful, Zuck wanted to be a "master of the universe".

    And it's not that background doesn't confer significant advantage or that elites don't help each other on some levels and in some ways (while competing with each other in different ways) - of course all that happens and the system isn't fair. Please don't think I'm defending the system.

    But none of that really matters without a strong will to power, which creates significant stratification within elites as well, and a strong will to power can help compensate for many disadvantages.

    Many factors help in shaping the elite - background, ability, unjust institutions that favor entrenched power, etc, but I maintain will to power is probably the single largest factor. How entrenched power is, it can always be outflanked and dislodged if it has lost the will to power.

    Especially between groups. I think what distinguished 20th century Jews from Wasps wasn't so much intelligence - I think Episcopalians actually have a higher average IQ - but will to power.

    Perhaps, too, gaining elite status is a quasi-collective endeavor, and a lone individual is at a.l disadvantage.



    I knew a guy of rather average intelligence - above average in absolute terms but roughly average in terms of any big cosmopolitan city. Not outstanding in any way. Comes from a prosperous middle class family but not wealthy. Not necessarily the most powe hungry person I knew, and certainly not the most successful, but perhaps a good illustration of the principles involved.

    His sole ambition to become wealthy and powerful. Has no hobbies or interests outside of that. All his energy and time is spent "optimizing" his life to be "efficient" and gain some skill or power. A single minded focus on his projects to the exclusion of all else.

    For him, life is non-stop competition. Every social interaction is an opportunity either to manipulate or establish dominance. Every topic whatsoever is viewed through the lens of competition and whether it conduces to acquiring wealth and power.

    Extreme envy and jealousy of anyone who has anything good in their life, and antagonized by expressions of happiness or cheerfulness in others. Rejoices when people he knows have setbacks. Actively tries to undermine people. Has no aesthetic or intellectual interests outside money and power.

    Creates a successful company and becomes multi-millionaire in his 20s, while taking highly questionable legal actions that could derail years of efforts and engaging in brinkmanship, and continues to work on projects to acquire even more wealth (because it's never enough).

    What do you make of such a guy? Does he suffer from a feeling of inadequacy? Is he healthy and happy? Does he differ from the norm in his desire for power?

  706. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I’ve heard that Japanese pop music uses a different scale than the Western, which gives it it’s often distinctive emotional tone.
     
    I don't know whether it is the fact that I don't know Japanese, but I feel like they have much better songs and music in their shows. And sometimes it is true when they are in English. This is all from one show, a famous one among dissidents Legend of the Galactic Heroes:
    https://youtu.be/ReIFoP8T4q8

    https://youtu.be/Sken4RHX9FY

    https://youtu.be/Hryo6H57y6I

    You may dislike this, but Japan is getting rather more multi-cultural with all these white people moving in
     
    Oh, I've definitely gotten a sense of this, and it is more than just whites. I don't like it at all. I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice. On the whole, undoubtedly there is more damage directed the other way, in both Europe in America, but I still don't like to see it.

    Particularly alarming to me are street interviews where they sometimes find Japanese who seem to be repeating woke talking points. And of course, Japan is aging rapidly, though not so rapidly as SK or China will.

    My ideal vision of Japan would be the one, where they followed a foreign man around, and young foreign man had to run like heck, and turn off the road,a and wade streams, and slide down hills to lose them, and they still found and followed him, even though he had the time of his life doing it. Mr. Hack knows what I am talking about.

    The Japan that Swift populated with talking horses.

    So which movies and shows have you watched recently that you think are classics?
     
    Well, I'll embarrass myself because I think the stuff with the broadest appeal are romances. I think it is about the effort that goes into it. They understand the commercial appeal, and so that is where they put their effort, and try to make something sophisticated. IMO, it is about getting the girls to go to the theater, but so the guys won't mind it so much.

    Probably, you have heard of Your Name 2016. Kimi no Na wa It was considered a big hit.
    https://youtu.be/xU47nhruN-Q

    Might be seen as problematic by some because the gimmick of the plot involves accidental body-swapping between a girl and boy. But it is a pretty wholesome movie on the whole. I consider it easily better than any Western animated film I have seen in the past ten years. I though WALL-E wasn't so bad, but that was from 2008.

    One highlight of it is representative of a lot of Japanese culture as a whole, is the Japanese appreciation for both place (as in settings that are inspired by actual places), and tradition. In the movie, the urban boy is connected to the rural maiden, and she is a shrine maiden, or part time, for a ceremony. It is a very good-looking animation, IMO.

    Harder to recommend a show because there is more of a time commitment involved even for a short one, and I think you need a certain tolerance for it. There are a lot Japanese tropes that may not sit well with Westerners, like the mixed tone. Points of wackball comedy, combined with tragedy, or the animation that sometimes does look very weird.

    Or points where they may see it as too perverted - though I honestly think that this is one of the endearing things about Japanese culture - it is that the perverted characters are often chaste. A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl's skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive. It is bawdy but doesn't trivialize sex because of the chasteness. At least certain things are like this (one can't constrain the whole, as the Japanese are famously perverted), but what is like this, is totally unlike Hollywood, which always trivializes sex but never satirizes it.

    But, anyway, there was one anime series that I thought was pretty good. Immediate and funny caveat: I though the faces were creepy-looking, too-big eyes, and almost stopped after the first episode. (I think that might supposed to be the type of art which specifically appeals to girls - and has interesting HBD implications)

    This is the one I would call a "quasi-masterpiece." In some ways, I consider it almost to be high art, but with a lot of caveats and flaws in the piece. I was almost going to try to recommend it to LatW because I think it really has some endearing qualities that she might appreciate. But I don't feel like I can without much knowledge of her capacity to tolerate anime or even TV shows because I feel you can only judge it and get a sense of it about maybe after the first 3-4 episodes.

    At its heart, and what I like the most about it is seems a love letter to classical music. In this sense, it has a very Euro feel to it, and feels like a celebration of European culture. It almost feels like something Europeans might have made at one time, but I would say can't make now, or at least people in Western Europe would feel that they can't.

    I think there are even parts of it that would strongly appeal to you. On a certain level, the series extols spontaneity, best represented by the sickly girl character, who knows each moment could be her last and plays her violin very emotively, knowing the judges may dislike it, but wanting to reach the audience. It is certainly a very emotional series. Some may feel it manipulative or maudlin. I like its use of light, to counteract the depression of the main boy character.

    And it is not hippyish - part of it is about hard work and the thrill of competition, and about the thrill of the possibility of a performance that moves someone in the audience. This is part of what I like about it - it seems to inspire one to think of art, and this is why I would almost call it "high art." (for the life of me, I cannot think of anything similar)

    The series is a tragic romance. Not for everyone.

    One part I did find hard to watch. (That involves the boy having negative memories of his piano lessons) Of course, the main plot one can see coming from a mile away, but I found one part incidental to it (that is along the way) really poignant and almost breathtakingly beautiful in its animation. The scene must have been rotoscoped, I think? But I am not sure. (I would not want to spoil it, but I felt it related to mortality in a very symbolic way, in the way of life and action and youth, it was exactly when the girl and boy were playing music together on the same stage and the context that the series gives that one fleeting moment makes it seem like a flower in bloom - it really is poignantly beautiful)

    And in a way, it is a very optimistic movie, despite being sad and partly about depression. And depicts what the Japanese might see as normal, but which in 2023 would strike a Westerner as utopian. A society where a five year old girl can navigate her way alone from a concert hall to her parent's bakery.

    I'm afraid that the trailer for it makes it look quite bad (faces look a bit creepy at times) and even woke (a line in it I do not remember and am pretty sure wasn't in it), but I'll post this piece of music from it, which I think is original and good:
    https://youtu.be/GEYepRwYKHw

    The series is called Your Lie in April (2013).

    In way, the main plot of it echoes some of the themes I mentioned earlier about shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese. Big highlight is the music and how the performer is shown as desiring to move the audience. And how the girl moves the boy, and how he tries to move her. 22 episodes long, so a time commitment.

    But I genuinely thought it was moving.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I also like the pop music in Japanese anime better. It just has an emotional tone that suits my own attitude to life more – but then I’m not really spiritually at home in America 🙂 A sense of sadness, yearning, no doubt based on the Buddhist sense of the evanescence of life, but somehow combined with energy – not a languid, passive sadness – perhaps a determination to live with vigor despite it’s uncertainty and briefness.

    But these are just words and it’s hard to describe. It is what it is.

    Thanks for your recommendations!

    They are not embarrassing at all. I’ve seen Your Name and I thought it was brilliant. A deeply moving, sad, movie. It’s good to see these kinds of movies still being made and becoming popular. It’s easily one of the best movies I’ve watched in the past few years.

    Garden of Rain by the same director is also superb, and I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second, a rather meditative film and one that Dmitry once told me was “boring”. But Dmitry just might be a Philistine 🙂

    As for Your Life in April, I’ve seen that on Netflix – your description is very good and I shall now have to check it out – thanks 🙂

    I think you’d enjoy the Boy and The Beast, also a moving film, and the Sword of the Stranger. The Berserk films are also superb, but very to dark and with some disturbing scenes especially towards the end.

    Thanks for your description of Your Life in April!

    • Replies: @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Thanks for the recommendations. I will be sure to look into them.


    I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second
     
    This one I have seen. I thought it really had top level-animation. Cherry trees in bloom (which are also part of the series I recommended) might be a Japanese cliche, but I think the movie might have the most artful depiction of them I recall seeing.

    I also like looking at the wikipedia article about it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Centimeters_per_Second

    Because the pictures reiterate this idea I was trying to communicate about how the Japanese really appreciate place.

    Honestly, I don't know how to feel about the plot because it is so contemplative. In this way, I would say it is very Japanese, to the point where I am not sure I am capable of even understanding the director's purposes. I'm probably a typical Westerner, in that I want to leave off the contemplation at the end, and make it a happy story, or at least a story with a happy thread.

    Part of me wants to whip out a chart of declining TFR, and take the director aside, and point to it and say, "Don't make it all unrequited. Don't make it alienating." Do what they did in It's a Wonderful Life and have some old fogey on his porch, tell the guy to kiss the girl, and then depict them at the end with 5 kids, and change the name of the movie to "5 Loving Kids", to encourage Japanese girls to become mothers.

    At the end of the day, I think Japan will need to lose its subtlety in this one way, regardless of the purposes of the director, and even if in some weird way, what I was saying was meant to be the point of movie. (though I am not so sure it was.)
    _____
    I've also seen the original Berserk. At the time (long ago), it really schocked me that a cartoon would be so violent. It is something that in a way, doubtlessly exceeded the violence of Hollywood (or the normal high level, I guess there are always qualifications). Probably, influenced by the medium.

    Once we perceive this demonstration, it is strange to think how the medium of anime might make other things possible, which are not as readily possible on film. Not just blood and guts, but spiritual ideas and emotions.

    one that Dmitry once told me was “boring”. But Dmitry just might be a Philistine 🙂
     
    I'm thinking that we only had a narrow window to reach Dmitri artistically - in the point of severest lockdown - and perhaps, we may have had to shut off his internet and mail him the DVDs, slowly, one at a time, like in the days when you had to go to Blockbuster and wait in a long line, that stretched around the place.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    One more thing I wanted to mention:

    I got into the series I mentioned because I heard the music first, and it made an impression on me. The music is often how I first encounter an anime, and get inspired to try it. I think this speaks as a mark against the idea that the Japanese are somehow less creative, though there are some Japanese who do believe this.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  707. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue – to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society.
     
    Depends who you are. That is no longer bold risk-taking for you, but tepid comfort. I'd like to see you take the bold risk of going with society and family on something, and against your static image of yourself.

    In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers – they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they’ve made the basic mistake.
     
    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called "slave morality."

    Maybe this story will help you see things without your prejudices: take the example of an anorexic teenage girl. Is she shrinking to take up no space, or is she basically just aggressively taking up all of the space?

    Imagine the family sat at the dinner table, with the girl, all knowing that she will pretend to eat food and may well be dying in a horrible and depressing way. Is her silence not then deafening? Is anyone thinking about anything else? Does she not totally dominate the room despite supposedly being innocent? And is that not actually precisely why she has found her way to anorexia? It is a megalomaniac power play that the vast majority of people don't have an answer for, and is often revenge against one or both parents, usually the mother.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Wokechoke

    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity – ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.

    You’re asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain 🙂 To “self-overcome” for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you’re presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn’t exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense – but in a a universe where objective value exists, self-overcoming should only be exercised in pursuit of the genuinely valuable.

    So – which of society’s and family’s values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world – so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree 🙂

    As for my “static” self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it – in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I’m not interested in change for the sake of change 🙂

    As you don’t believe in objective value, Laxa, you are ultimately a nihilist who proposes actions not oriented to some higher good, but actions for actions sake – modern “freedom”, I suppose 🙂

    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called “slave morality.”

    Here, for once, you are actually correct one level, which I shall address first 🙂

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient – the seeker after power and wealth thinks finite power and finite – wealth – and all personal accretions that accrue to the individual as distinct from others and the universe are, by definition, finite (not All, only a part) – but finds eventually that his appetite is insatiable and just grows with the feeding, and he remains on a treadmill of unhappiness.

    If he is lucky, it will eventually dawn him that a “part”, however big, will never satisfy him. The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less – but that isn’t, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a “part”.

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak 🙂

    Now, about the “slave morality” thing – as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.

    Of course, some people use powerlessness as a form of manipulation, revenge, or resentment – not because they identify with the All at all.

    Nietzsche made the mistake of not understanding metaphysics, which he denied were real. He didn’t see how one could identify with the All, and believing in a world of disconnected discrete objects, the vision of modernity, he naturally could not see how the obvious human sense of inadequacy – which he so vividly observed and felt – could be satisfied by anything other than personal power at the expense of others (which even he realized, in this scheme, was insatiable. He posted a will to power that is never satisfied).

    So for him, surrendering personal power could only be a move in the game of personal power – when it may actually be the final realization move that takes you out of that game and into the highest level of power, where it no longer resembles itself even 🙂

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity – ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.
     
    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.
     
    That thing you are enduring is the set of shackles you created for yourself.

    You’re asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain 🙂 To “self-overcome” for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.
     
    No, I am saying that you must be exhausted by all of the abstract bloviating.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you’re presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn’t exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense
     
    You've just made this nonsense up. The point is to let your soul be free. Instead of bloviating it to death.

    So – which of society’s and family’s values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world – so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree
     
    It isn't about values or your metaphysics or any of that other neurotic babble. Stop mediating everything you experience through this blather.

    As for my “static” self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it – in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I’m not interested in change for the sake of change 🙂
     
    Nope, I was telling you this exactly this stuff 1.5 years ago. Literally no growth here. You still think understanding is to be found by removing yourself, via theorising, from actual living.

    As you don’t believe in objective value,
     
    Of course I do. I see love flow like an electric current through people, animals, things and dimensions. And I believe my own eyes. I just don't believe that you're going to create an abstract model in your head that comes within even 0.0001% to describing it, because your head is small and reality and love are big. Basically, you are a being of limited perception and not god and therefore your attempts to ventriloquise god are self-defeating and deluded.

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient
     
    Nope, that's how neurotic humans start. Plenty start with different delusions. What's funniest of course is that your underlying assumptions are that basically you're a huge brained god as you ventriloquise hom, even though your superficial beliefs are being weak and nothing. The opposite of your mother.

    Your slave morality is your attempt at power, but denying that reality to yourself, by removing yourself from the experience, which is why you need to drink.

    The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less – but that isn’t, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a “part”.
     
    You'll never experience spirit while hiding behind metaphysics. Again, why you need spirits to feel balanced.

    Instead, you're seeking non-existence, which is what the neurotic seeks as a way out of suffering.

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak
     
    I'm sorry your mum made you live within her narrative for your attachment, but this thing you do, where you pretend your narrative is actually the universe's and therefore everyone must live within it, is actually the same thing at root - if much less poisonously enforced on others. but of course has a similarly harsh effect on yourself.

    Now, about the “slave morality” thing – as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.
     
    You misunderstand Nietszche. And yourself.

    Your version of identifying with the All is projecting your narrative onto the All. This is what slave morality is too. Ventriloquising god.

    An act of love and generosity is an honest expression of how you feel, not some dumb metaphysical trick.

    Drop the blather for a bit. Ask yourself how you feel. Experience how you feel and do what is in your heart, if you're not too much of a neurotic coward. It'll be fun. Let go and have a bit of faith that actually you're enough and good person without inflating your ego by ventriloquising god. Experience love. Don't metaphysic about it.

    As I said, it has been a year and a half since you received this exact advice, so just do it. Be brave and experiment. No whinging or anything else. Just shut up and do. Your ego will survive the experience.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  708. @songbird
    How much smarter are oxen than cows?

    I was reading something, and it said they understand hand signals. Pretty gnarly, and different from my conception of a cow. I wonder if it is because they were mercilessly culled, more than cows, with the smartest one always preserved for mating purposes.

    BTW, I wonder how many animals are there where the male is noticeably smarter, due to differential killing. My theory is that with dogs, it was more often the females that were killed.

    Replies: @S

    How much smarter are oxen than cows?

    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.

    Here, starting at about 1:50, we see two oxen doing some righteous work hauling a wagon load of new found gold in an ancient Rome setting for our ever likable hero, Pullo.

    And, come to think of it, Pullo himself would seem to have had some readily apparent rather ox-like characteristics himself. 😀

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @songbird
    @S

    You have a point there: dumb as an ox is an expression.

    But this fellow says it is not true, and claims they are as smart as dogs. But he also believes (contra my theory) that the difference between a cow and an ox is only training.
    https://www.wmuk.org/arts-more/2015-06-23/dumb-as-an-ox-think-again

    And further: there was this story about a girl riding a cow in Germany that I was able to recall:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/cow-german-girl-rides-show-jumps

    I could be wrong.

    My idea of a cow is something that will graze at the side of a dead cow because it is too stupid to understand death. (To contrast it with chickens, they may immediately begin pecking to try to eat the dead chicken. this is one of the reasons I consider them monstrous)


    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.
     
    It is vastly politically incorrect to say, but there are measurable intelligence differences between the average man and woman. Of course, standard disclaimers: I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful. At the middle of the distribution the differences are not so large, but at the upper limit, this has vast implications. The number of female geniuses is vastly fewer than that of male ones.

    Now, that has to be the result of some sort of sexual selection. We might say something like "Women care about intelligence or its fruits, but not men." (which if not perfectly true, certainly has a lot of truth to it.)

    Now, a lot of animals are selectively culled, based on sex. If the male is going under the knife soon - then it stands to reason that the dumber ones will be killed quicker, while the farmer may try to keep the smarter and more useful ones and try to breed them.

    Not considering the sexes, but just the breed, it is really easy to perceive this in herding breeds of dogs. They are just smarter, and the reason is that the dumb dogs could not do it, and aren't part of the genetic pool of sheep dogs, in the same way that the smart ones are. They were killed or given away to non-herders.

    Though I am pretty sure that a lot more female dogs were killed, and female dogs don't seem obviously smarter to me. But perhaps such a thing works easier with males, who can breed many more times?

    Replies: @S

  709. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    I'm sure he has no problem with dairy, but modern production has an extremely quick turnover/cull rate. Modern dairy production is dependent on incessant cow slaughter.

    Modern meat and dairy is a nasty business with the septic veneer of machine efficiency.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Sher Singh

    Yup. Asked a Brahmin & this is what he said:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    Agreed. My wife and I actually used to be vegetarian before we owned land. Once we had land, animals and hence meat made good practical sense and with the right care, ethical sense. I'm not squeamish or prissy about my animals but I do believe that they deserve respect as such. I also agree with the point that killing animals should not kill a man's mercy. I'll freely admit that a part of me deeply regrets having to kill an animal to eat it. The only way to avoid feeling that way is to discount the animals existence.

    Factory farming is still in my mind an abomination against God as it perverts the nature of animals and also the man who would look at an animal as nothing but a biological machine. The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn't have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    Without anthropomorphizing, I can say that even older breeds of chickens, not to mention sheep, cows and pigs, have plenty of individual personality. It's pretty dynamic and interesting to be around.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will. This is at the root of most of the problems of modernity.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

  710. @German_reader
    @AP


    He is a Pole though which would introduce some bias in addition to his political bias
     
    He's actually pretty fair and doesn't spare Polish patriotic feelings, there's a lot about anti-Ukrainian discrimination in interwar Poland in the book. He also mentions atrocities against Ukrainian civilians by Polish AK during WW2 and by Polish soldiers in the post-war era. He's even critical of the discourse among Polish Kresowiacy, saying that it's one-sided and not free of vindictiveness.
    Regarding WW2, he even goes so far as saying that not everybody in OUN/UPA was a killer or fanatic, that people may have had various motives for joining it etc. But it's still pretty damning, couldn't be otherwise. Of course all of this should be ancient history by now. But it isn't, not least because part of the Ukrainian diaspora and then political forces in independent Ukraine turned these people into national heroes, made them a key part of their identity etc. (instead of forgetting about them, as might have been more prudent).

    Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism.
     
    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.

    Replies: @Ferraro, @AP

    “Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism.”

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.

    It’s not that different in terms of both peoples not celebrating the evils of Bandera or Stalin and instead focusing on a semi-mythologized image of each man.

    But it’s very different in terms of what they celebrate about him.

    Russians who support Stalin for the most part don’t support gulags, mass executions, and murdering millions by famine. Indeed, they often deny or minimize that these things were done. They support Stalin out of a mix of nostalgia for the Soviet Union, glorious military victory, that under him they lived in a feared and respected Great Power.

    Ukrainians who support Bandera don’t support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement’s anti-colonial national liberation against foreign imperialists and consider that his struggle made later democracy possible. Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    That both groups mythologize and support odious figures is true (though Stalin was much worse than Bandera).

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Ukrainians who support Bandera don’t support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement’s anti-colonial national liberation...and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.
     
    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism...he must have been a very confused individual.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself - he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult. Genghis-khan is an ancient history, close to 1,ooo years, similar Ceasar w Gauls, or Charlemagne w Saxons...but WW2 is not.

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of "Banderism" in the modern Ukraine will be that it can't survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders - the pro-Russian "half" of the population can't stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia. So why was this idiocy allowed to bloom?

    A few years from now someone will write a book about the doomed Ukie attempt to have it all: fight Russia to death, destroy its own Russian minority, steal everything, move to Europe, worship WW2 Nazis. It couldn't be done. A smarter national movement would be selective and do things gradually - but Ukies went nuts, totally undisciplined and emotional. They will lose and it is rather sad, because on top of the loss, there will piles of new victims to cry over for generations. It didn't have to be this way.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Greasy William
    @AP

    The Irish do the same thing with Michael Collins.

    Really it's best to not deify human beings. I don't even think the Founding Fathers or other Presidents should have statues or be on US currency.

    , @German_reader
    @AP


    Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.
     
    But that's just that, a myth. In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia's Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it's just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine. And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity). His own vision for Ukraine also comes across as pretty totalitarian itself, not only would all ethnic enemies have been removed, he also believed in Führerprinzip (apparently even after WW2, when his attitude caused friction with other Ukrainian nationalists - Bandera probably ordered assassinations of some of them) and there would have been no other Ukrainian parties allowed in his state.
    And while Bandera was out of the picture for most of the war, other OUN people collaborated in more direct ways with Germany, in pursuit of their own interests. Shukhevych was part of an anti-partisan unit in Belarus in 1942/43 and presumably involved in atrocities there. OUN-B also infiltrated members into the police force in Volhynia where they aided the Germans in exterminating the Jews and acquired "skills" they would then use for UPA's anti-Polish campaign. Spinning that as anti-totalitarianism is just Cold War mythology.

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.
     
    I have my own issues with modern "European values" and wouldn't counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That's very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn't compatible with "European values" at all, in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today's West like social equality and antiracism).

    Replies: @AP

  711. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.
     
    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment. Of course, dominant alleles are always selected, even if they are detrimental, as long as they are not lethal.

    Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations. Absent a mutagen, the rate of mutation remains rather constant. And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good (no allele can be universally useful).

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies. It was hardly an entirely positive trade-in.

    A wolf has a 10 - 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature. An average modern human has around 10% lower brain volume than a Paleolithic megafauna hunter. A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia.

    In most places where the Western civilization has reached we can hardly find a primeval forest, let alone a truly mature ecosystem that has reached its climax (measures as maximum diversity of species and lowest entropy overall). The natural complexity has been greatly reduced by the civilization. And so has also been the potential of future evolution, because much genetic diversity has been lost.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings. We have undergone self-domestication, as wolves would if they learned themselves playing tricks and running after balls thrown at them generations after generations.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were ?

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db377.htm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/25/depression-and-anxiety-double-in-youth-compared-to-pre-pandemic/

    https://www.science.org/content/article/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity

    These are also the results of civilization. Perhaps we should not cherry pick and only choose what is positive about it. It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations. It was massive degradation of natural environment and squandering of natural ressources. Civilization was a trade-off with gains and losses to it. Perhaps the more it goes, and the more gains will be reduced and losses become apparent. It might well lead to humanity's demise.

    12 000 years is a tiny speck on a biological time-frame.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.

    It was good for a time, until it wasn't.

    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.

    Before the overdose.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.
    It was good for a time, until it wasn’t.
    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.
    Before the overdose.

    list=PLpGFUcLNHueZDw1Ch9_eaEo0mNqoq6unr&index=9&ab_channel=GigiYoung

    If you go to 12:55 and mute the sound it’s great.

    The woman who narrates the video is an alien abduction evangelist, talks like a robot, and is completely bugnuts. Whoever produced it is master of video clips.

    I believe you are overthinking the textbook questions; Who am I; Where did I come from; and Where am I going?

    userid, mom’s vag 9 months after she boinked dad, a grave like all other humans will answer these questions for 99.99% of all practical purposes. Your boss and the tax man don’t care at all to cite two obvious examples. : )

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    https://youtu.be/lGB79MupJDU

    This is how it all truly works.

  712. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I find it really strange, and indicative of the schizophrenic nature of our society, that on one hand we elevate the insane and fake beauty standards of the derivative and filtered Instagram hottie, while also saying that being morbidly obese is just fine and dandy and as good looking as anything else. As far as I'm concerned, both extremes are pathological.

    I do think that much of the obesity does stem from lack of exercise and too much food, but I also think there may be more going on. I've seen studies that indicate that even holding calories steady makes people fatter than they were 40 years ago. The fat packing seems to effect women more than men on average.

    I would expect that there might be a widespread metabolic/ hormonal component that is fundamentally different. It does seem that a lot of emerging science indicates that metabolic and hormonal regulation is tied to strenuous exercise in fundamental ways. The fall off in physical activity may be enough to create a tailspin in metabolic functioning, but I'm sure all the chemicals, synthetic hormones, etc. contribute. Even oral birth control, which is pretty ubiquitous can be bad
    that way.

    Whatever is going on it's not good. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I was going through old yearbooks from my grandparents and consistently there was perhaps one or two chubby girls (not even really fat) in the entire high school. It's a huge change!

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    The problem with all these “physicalist” theories is that they are disproved by Asia.

    Tokyo has an insane availability of the most delicious high calorie foods – Japanese in particular love fried foods – far in excess of even the densest American cities like New York, yet the people are model-thin. Not just not chubby, but model thin, both men and women. New York, while thinner than the rest of country and with little actual obesity, has plenty of overweight people.

    Moreover, Japan uses all the chemical additives we do – in fact, even more, there are multiple food additives banned in the West that Japan widely uses, and their diet is extremely fatty and unhealthy, fried foods, ramen, etc.

    Wagyu – Japanese beef – is famous especially for being significantly fattier than any other beef in the world 🙂 It is the most heavily marbled beef in existence, and it’s everywhere – they were even selling skewers of it in the airport.

    The picture is substantially the same in Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, etc. Food paradise, unhealthy diets, skinny people.

    The Japanese are also a nation of alcoholics – people drink a ton there, on a near daily basis, often starting in the afternoon. There are a gazillion bars – generally quite small – everywhere. Even vending machines sell alcohol. Beer is extremely popular..

    At a certain point, we’re going to have to admit our “physicalist” theories of obesity have failed – it is something in the mind, picked up from the culture, or some signal in the environment mediated by the mind.

    I notice it myself – I’m fit and thin in NY, but I always lose a few pounds in Asia and acquire that “modelesque” thinness without even trying. Interestingly, in NY I have tremendous “food anxiety” in the sense that I am obsessed with getting organic, healthy, chemical free foods, and I make sure to eat lots of veggies and fruits. In Asia, my food anxiety vanishes and my diet gets significantly worse – fried foods, I forget all about veggies and fruits and barely eat them, and I drop pounds and feel fantastic.

    The mind after all is what mediates information from our environment and controls our emotional and physiological state – it stands to reason that if people are overeating, it’s because of some signal in the environment or culture.

    But what?

    I have some theories in embryo about that – it may be Americans are overeating out of a sense of “existential insecurity”, a signal in the American environment telling them they are never “enough”, and that they must self-aggrandize in order to validate themselves and gain value.

    In Asia, things are chaotic and very active and dynamic, but there is a sort of calmness and contentment one picks up on immediately – returning to America one immediately picks up on a sort of restlessness that is in the air, a sort of discontent.

    I am sure, too, there are social and aesthetic factors as well – and the way that ties into the moral dimension is interesting.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This is a physicalist explanation but it's not inconsequential that the average Japan consumes around a 1000 less daily calories than the average American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

    Of course it's a complicated thing and I don't discount an emotional/ mental component. America has extremely high levels of stress and anxiety (just look at the rate of psychotropic meds) which could easily contribute to more weight gain.

    Tangentially it would be interesting to know the comparative rates of psych meds in different countries.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    , @Dmitry
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    The size of the plates in the restaurant is a lot smaller than in America and they walk more instead of using only cars . There is also higher consumption of vegetables.

    Even then, with introduction of more Western foods like MacDonald's, they are beginning to introduce more Western health difficulties.

    They discuss the introduction of the problems in the end of the report (around 13:00).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to9rhIwWJg0

  713. @Wokechoke
    @Gerard1234

    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?

    Replies: @AP, @Gerard1234

    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?

    Ukraine…….and Hotel Ukraina in Moscow. Every Oksana from Lvov or Ternopol dreams to have the “career” have the old hotel as a tour date – it’s like every Boxer wants to fight at Madison Square Gardens or every ballet dancer wants to perform at the Bolshoi.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Gerard1234


    Ukraine…….and Hotel Ukraina in Moscow. Every Oksana from Lvov or Ternopol dreams to have the “career” have the old hotel as a tour date – it’s like every Boxer wants to fight at Madison Square Gardens or every ballet dancer wants to perform at the Bolshoi.
     
    https://media.makeameme.org/created/thats-exactly-what-e970cd9185.jpg :-) :-) :-)
  714. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I also like the pop music in Japanese anime better. It just has an emotional tone that suits my own attitude to life more - but then I'm not really spiritually at home in America :) A sense of sadness, yearning, no doubt based on the Buddhist sense of the evanescence of life, but somehow combined with energy - not a languid, passive sadness - perhaps a determination to live with vigor despite it's uncertainty and briefness.

    But these are just words and it's hard to describe. It is what it is.

    Thanks for your recommendations!

    They are not embarrassing at all. I've seen Your Name and I thought it was brilliant. A deeply moving, sad, movie. It's good to see these kinds of movies still being made and becoming popular. It's easily one of the best movies I've watched in the past few years.

    Garden of Rain by the same director is also superb, and I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second, a rather meditative film and one that Dmitry once told me was "boring". But Dmitry just might be a Philistine :)

    As for Your Life in April, I've seen that on Netflix - your description is very good and I shall now have to check it out - thanks :)

    I think you'd enjoy the Boy and The Beast, also a moving film, and the Sword of the Stranger. The Berserk films are also superb, but very to dark and with some disturbing scenes especially towards the end.

    Thanks for your description of Your Life in April!

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    Thanks for the recommendations. I will be sure to look into them.

    I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second

    This one I have seen. I thought it really had top level-animation. Cherry trees in bloom (which are also part of the series I recommended) might be a Japanese cliche, but I think the movie might have the most artful depiction of them I recall seeing.

    [MORE]

    I also like looking at the wikipedia article about it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Centimeters_per_Second

    Because the pictures reiterate this idea I was trying to communicate about how the Japanese really appreciate place.

    Honestly, I don’t know how to feel about the plot because it is so contemplative. In this way, I would say it is very Japanese, to the point where I am not sure I am capable of even understanding the director’s purposes. I’m probably a typical Westerner, in that I want to leave off the contemplation at the end, and make it a happy story, or at least a story with a happy thread.

    Part of me wants to whip out a chart of declining TFR, and take the director aside, and point to it and say, “Don’t make it all unrequited. Don’t make it alienating.” Do what they did in It’s a Wonderful Life and have some old fogey on his porch, tell the guy to kiss the girl, and then depict them at the end with 5 kids, and change the name of the movie to “5 Loving Kids”, to encourage Japanese girls to become mothers.

    At the end of the day, I think Japan will need to lose its subtlety in this one way, regardless of the purposes of the director, and even if in some weird way, what I was saying was meant to be the point of movie. (though I am not so sure it was.)
    _____
    I’ve also seen the original Berserk. At the time (long ago), it really schocked me that a cartoon would be so violent. It is something that in a way, doubtlessly exceeded the violence of Hollywood (or the normal high level, I guess there are always qualifications). Probably, influenced by the medium.

    Once we perceive this demonstration, it is strange to think how the medium of anime might make other things possible, which are not as readily possible on film. Not just blood and guts, but spiritual ideas and emotions.

    one that Dmitry once told me was “boring”. But Dmitry just might be a Philistine 🙂

    I’m thinking that we only had a narrow window to reach Dmitri artistically – in the point of severest lockdown – and perhaps, we may have had to shut off his internet and mail him the DVDs, slowly, one at a time, like in the days when you had to go to Blockbuster and wait in a long line, that stretched around the place.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    Yes, it was a very aesthetic film, wasn't it, more even than his other films.

    I understand what you're saying about the unresolved plot in the movie and how that might tie in to your concerns about national health and vigor, but it's actually a very classic and beautiful treatment of traditional Japanese Buddhist values of detachment, evanescence, and the unsatisfying nature of earthly life.

    These are all classic themes in Japanese culture and in Buddhism, and Japan would not be the place we love and appreciate without them.

    I also believe that these seemingly "anti-life" messages that on the surface don't promote vigor and health actually contribute to vigor and health in a very important, if indirect way in fact, are indispensable to national vigor :)

    It's a striking fact that cultures with these seemingly "anti-life" messages, like Christianity or Buddhism, are paradoxically very vigorous and self confident so long as that message is intact - the West, for instance, went into decline after it abandoned Christianity and adopted a value system that focuses purely on flourishing on this earth.

    It would seem that excessive attachment to this world and life in it, actually depresses one, while paradoxically, a certain measure of detachment from this world actually liberates ones energies and makes one more vigorous and self confident.

    There is also the moral dimension, which is in my opinion one of the main sources of vigor and self confidence - taking this world too seriously seems to involve a loss of moral dimension.

    In the end, the detachment in that film which refuses to prioritize our earthly concerns opens up a channel to the Gods :) And that is the source of vigor.

    The problem with the fascist approach - and I'm not using the word here pejoratively just descriptively - is that it's too straightforward and rational, but the world consists of indirect, paradoxical, and second and third order effects.

    Yes, Berserk is shockingly violent and brutal, which is a bit off putting, but the films are compelling. I agree that anime as a medium has certain possibilities not easily realized in regular cinema, or only at great cost. But really, some effects can only be achieved in animation.

    As for Dmitry, lol - yes, our window has closed with the end of the pandemic, alas :)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  715. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Well, write then an exemplum of a person with the strongest will to power you ever met, how you detected that in his/her life, what was his/her inner lack... that could be instructive lest you turn it all into pure metaphysics again... in other words, a part of exemplum are facts which a reader can judge on his own.

    I still have some doubts that our ruling oligarchy is highly competitive among themselves... there is a reason why William Henry Gates III, a son of banker (of course), has been presented to the broad public as Bill Gates from the suburbs who works in his garage on primitive DOS personal computers - the myth of competition has to be preserved among plebes above all. Because oligarchs already know that lineage counts.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Long ago I remember reading Peter Thiel, an early investor in Facebook, recounting how shocked he was at Zuckerberg calmly rejecting what he thought was a phenomenally huge offer, and telling the investors that of course they will hold out for much, much more.

    Zuckerberg evidently had a significantly greater desire for power than Thiel – no slouch himself in that department – and a willingness to engage in nail biting brinkmanship to get it.

    That’s a good illustration of differentials in will to power – Thiel merely wanted to be wealthy and powerful, Zuck wanted to be a “master of the universe”.

    And it’s not that background doesn’t confer significant advantage or that elites don’t help each other on some levels and in some ways (while competing with each other in different ways) – of course all that happens and the system isn’t fair. Please don’t think I’m defending the system.

    But none of that really matters without a strong will to power, which creates significant stratification within elites as well, and a strong will to power can help compensate for many disadvantages.

    Many factors help in shaping the elite – background, ability, unjust institutions that favor entrenched power, etc, but I maintain will to power is probably the single largest factor. How entrenched power is, it can always be outflanked and dislodged if it has lost the will to power.

    Especially between groups. I think what distinguished 20th century Jews from Wasps wasn’t so much intelligence – I think Episcopalians actually have a higher average IQ – but will to power.

    Perhaps, too, gaining elite status is a quasi-collective endeavor, and a lone individual is at a.l disadvantage.

    [MORE]

    I knew a guy of rather average intelligence – above average in absolute terms but roughly average in terms of any big cosmopolitan city. Not outstanding in any way. Comes from a prosperous middle class family but not wealthy. Not necessarily the most powe hungry person I knew, and certainly not the most successful, but perhaps a good illustration of the principles involved.

    His sole ambition to become wealthy and powerful. Has no hobbies or interests outside of that. All his energy and time is spent “optimizing” his life to be “efficient” and gain some skill or power. A single minded focus on his projects to the exclusion of all else.

    For him, life is non-stop competition. Every social interaction is an opportunity either to manipulate or establish dominance. Every topic whatsoever is viewed through the lens of competition and whether it conduces to acquiring wealth and power.

    Extreme envy and jealousy of anyone who has anything good in their life, and antagonized by expressions of happiness or cheerfulness in others. Rejoices when people he knows have setbacks. Actively tries to undermine people. Has no aesthetic or intellectual interests outside money and power.

    Creates a successful company and becomes multi-millionaire in his 20s, while taking highly questionable legal actions that could derail years of efforts and engaging in brinkmanship, and continues to work on projects to acquire even more wealth (because it’s never enough).

    What do you make of such a guy? Does he suffer from a feeling of inadequacy? Is he healthy and happy? Does he differ from the norm in his desire for power?

  716. It is moments like this that make Trump 2024 seem inevitable. (1)

    Hours After TRUMP Announces Upcoming Visit to East Palestine, FEMA Reverses Course and Will Support Ohio Community

    The announcement by President Trump with his intent to visit East Palestine next Wednesday, followed moments later by a reversal announcement from FEMA stating they will now offer support to East Palestine, do not seem coincidental.

    The Biden administration, including the EPA, FEMA and Transporation Secretary, was likely very worried about the optics of getting blasted by President Trump very visibly next week for their lack of urgency and concern. Moments after Trump announces his visit, FEMA reverses their prior denial of aid. lol

    Forcing the government to do the right thing is a unique gift.

    MAGA GOP is the party for workers and their families. The Democrats are now the Wall Street party.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/02/17/hours-after-trump-announces-upcoming-visit-to-east-palestine-fema-reverses-course-and-will-support-ohio-community/

  717. AP says:
    @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.
     
    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment. Of course, dominant alleles are always selected, even if they are detrimental, as long as they are not lethal.

    Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations. Absent a mutagen, the rate of mutation remains rather constant. And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good (no allele can be universally useful).

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies. It was hardly an entirely positive trade-in.

    A wolf has a 10 - 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature. An average modern human has around 10% lower brain volume than a Paleolithic megafauna hunter. A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia.

    In most places where the Western civilization has reached we can hardly find a primeval forest, let alone a truly mature ecosystem that has reached its climax (measures as maximum diversity of species and lowest entropy overall). The natural complexity has been greatly reduced by the civilization. And so has also been the potential of future evolution, because much genetic diversity has been lost.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings. We have undergone self-domestication, as wolves would if they learned themselves playing tricks and running after balls thrown at them generations after generations.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were ?

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db377.htm

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/25/depression-and-anxiety-double-in-youth-compared-to-pre-pandemic/

    https://www.science.org/content/article/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity

    These are also the results of civilization. Perhaps we should not cherry pick and only choose what is positive about it. It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations. It was massive degradation of natural environment and squandering of natural ressources. Civilization was a trade-off with gains and losses to it. Perhaps the more it goes, and the more gains will be reduced and losses become apparent. It might well lead to humanity's demise.

    12 000 years is a tiny speck on a biological time-frame.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.

    It was good for a time, until it wasn't.

    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.

    Before the overdose.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment…Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle

    Correct.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations.

    Which, in the presence of a radically different environment, produces accelerated evolution due to environmental pressure.

    And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good

    On balance they seem to have been though. People became more cooperative, more able to navigate increasingly complex social interactions due to greater population density, more capable of future-orientation and planning the mechanisms of planting, harvesting, planning for famines, etc.

    Moving beyond primitive hunter-gathers, pastoralists who domesticated livestock, leaned to ride the horse and manage the concomitant technology, established wide-ranging trade networks and hierarchies, also underwent significant positive evolutionary changes.

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies.

    People who don’t hunt megafauna can indeed be smaller. And brain size correlates with body size. This doesn’t mean that elephants or for that matter Neanderthals (who were bigger and had correspondingly larger brains than Homo Sapiens) are smarter than we are.

    The reduced protein intake combined with increased cognitive demands may have forced agricultural people to evolve more efficient brains. With later urbanization these advantages could be further maximized and enabled an explosion in cognitive power.

    The brain of Albert Einstein was of average overall size for modern humans (indeed, smaller than the mean), that is – it was much smaller than for a hunter-gatherer from 20,000 years ago. Was the hunter-gatherer smarter? No. Einstein’s brain was organized in a way that maximized its performance without increasing its overall size:

    https://www.science.org/content/article/closer-look-einsteins-brain

    A wolf has a 10 – 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature

    Yes, and a wolf lives a much more complex life than does a lapdog. It’s the opposite for hunter-gatherers versus modern humans.

    A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia

    The issue isn’t predictability but complexity. A dog’s world is more predictable but also less complex than a wolf’s world.* But a post hunter-gatherer’s world, while more predictable, is also far more complex than a primitive person’s world.

    Modern humans have to navigate orders of magnitude more interpersonal relationships with a high degree of deft, they have to be literate, they need complex skills such as being able to drive with thousands of other humans, use various other machines, understand complex urban or suburban landscapes and understand what to obtain where, etc. A hunter-gather needs physical prowess, needs to know how to make and fix relatively simple tools, and has to remember where the game and the berries are.

    A modern human if he is eccentric and motivated enough can successfully go “tribal” and live off the land while still retaining his literacy, etc. But when for example Yanomami were brought into the modern world and tried to adjust they generally failed miserably.

    There are still some hunter–gatherers left, on the margins. You really think an Amazon tribesman, an Andaman islander, or African pygmy or bushman is wiser or smarter than we are?

    And throughout history, civilized people have encountered hunter-gathers. They did not view them as particularly wise or smart, but as primitive and dumb – at best, they were seen as having some cunning to them. In Australia, the Brits apparently hunted them like wild animals, for sport (or was that apocryphal?).

    Consider the Spaniards who came to the New World. They were capable of navigating across the ocean, of engaging in skilled diplomacy with the natives they found (both urban and primitive- tribal), reproducing their technology (i.e., making gunpowder from scratch from materials they found, fixing things), successful military strategy, and were also writing about what they saw, engaging in ideological disputes, building complex structures such as cathedrals and fortresses, appreciating and creating polyphonic music on multiple complex instruments.

    Do you really think these people were not as smart as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago? That they were not more evolved than them?

    The romantic idealization of tribals is strong but is not based on reality.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings

    We are creatures of nature, not “unnatural.” So everything we do is natural, it’s simply very complex. As a mouse is more complex than a bacterium – both are equally natural. A beaver dam or bird’s nest is natural. So is a cathedral or a sculpture. One should cherish all of nature, even the parts that are made by the hand of man.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were

    I wouldn’t compare modern Western problems that have arisen in the last 20 years – to how people were 20,000 years ago.

    It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations.

    Well, we know that the death rate by violence for primitive peoples was far higher than for settled populations. About 30% of hunter-gatherers have their lives ended by being stabbed or having their skulls bashed in by another hunter-gatherer. True in modern times and in the past, based on archeological excavations. This is probably an improvement over non-human animals, of course.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom

    Small, unstable species population that nearly went extinct c. 70,000 years ago was much less fit than what came later. I’m not sure that being utterly dependent on the vagaries of game access and weather or climate was “freedom.”

    *A dog has a much smaller social circle than a wolf, only his family rather than a pack and no hope of becoming pack leader, and doesn’t do much (but I suspect that certain breeds of dogs such as complex sheep-herding dogs are as smart as wolves).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.

    Replies: @AP

  718. @Gerard1234
    @Wokechoke


    you mean Ukraine Is A Brothel?
     
    Ukraine.......and Hotel Ukraina in Moscow. Every Oksana from Lvov or Ternopol dreams to have the "career" have the old hotel as a tour date - it's like every Boxer wants to fight at Madison Square Gardens or every ballet dancer wants to perform at the Bolshoi.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Ukraine…….and Hotel Ukraina in Moscow. Every Oksana from Lvov or Ternopol dreams to have the “career” have the old hotel as a tour date – it’s like every Boxer wants to fight at Madison Square Gardens or every ballet dancer wants to perform at the Bolshoi.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  719. @S
    @songbird


    How much smarter are oxen than cows?
     
    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.

    Here, starting at about 1:50, we see two oxen doing some righteous work hauling a wagon load of new found gold in an ancient Rome setting for our ever likable hero, Pullo.

    And, come to think of it, Pullo himself would seem to have had some readily apparent rather ox-like characteristics himself. :-D



    https://youtu.be/wXHcnQ29Bbs

    Replies: @songbird

    You have a point there: dumb as an ox is an expression.

    But this fellow says it is not true, and claims they are as smart as dogs. But he also believes (contra my theory) that the difference between a cow and an ox is only training.

    [MORE]

    https://www.wmuk.org/arts-more/2015-06-23/dumb-as-an-ox-think-again

    And further: there was this story about a girl riding a cow in Germany that I was able to recall:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/cow-german-girl-rides-show-jumps

    I could be wrong.

    My idea of a cow is something that will graze at the side of a dead cow because it is too stupid to understand death. (To contrast it with chickens, they may immediately begin pecking to try to eat the dead chicken. this is one of the reasons I consider them monstrous)

    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.

    It is vastly politically incorrect to say, but there are measurable intelligence differences between the average man and woman. Of course, standard disclaimers: I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful. At the middle of the distribution the differences are not so large, but at the upper limit, this has vast implications. The number of female geniuses is vastly fewer than that of male ones.

    Now, that has to be the result of some sort of sexual selection. We might say something like “Women care about intelligence or its fruits, but not men.” (which if not perfectly true, certainly has a lot of truth to it.)

    Now, a lot of animals are selectively culled, based on sex. If the male is going under the knife soon – then it stands to reason that the dumber ones will be killed quicker, while the farmer may try to keep the smarter and more useful ones and try to breed them.

    Not considering the sexes, but just the breed, it is really easy to perceive this in herding breeds of dogs. They are just smarter, and the reason is that the dumb dogs could not do it, and aren’t part of the genetic pool of sheep dogs, in the same way that the smart ones are. They were killed or given away to non-herders.

    Though I am pretty sure that a lot more female dogs were killed, and female dogs don’t seem obviously smarter to me. But perhaps such a thing works easier with males, who can breed many more times?

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird

    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow. Hope it never fell on her.



    About cows understanding death. I recently saw a video of a cow resisting being put down at a slaughterhouse, produced by an animal defense league of some sort. Another video showed cows in a trailer on the way to a slaughterhouse and they were quite agitated. It seems they have some rudimentary understanding of death

    In regards to women and intelligence, yes, there are some differences between the sexes.

    As an aside, I'm reminded how in that movie Quiz Show (IIRC) they had a scene where the winning contestant was getting all these letters from women fans who found it a very attractive feature just how intelligent the guy was, and were throwing themselves at him. That was late 1950's. No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn't know it all from what's promoted in the culture today.


    I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful.
     
    The best kind...though I'll still take a stupid girl if they're at all like a Shirley Manson. :-D

    https://youtu.be/2GhPUAVgHZc

    Replies: @songbird

  720. @LatW
    @LatW

    Just some more friendly input here: in many recent Chinese movies, usually revolving around dragons, it is quite common to see these actors who do all these amazing otherworldly jumps and tricks. Both men and women. It is quite entertaining but I wouldn't say that in and of itself it adds much to pure sex appeal. It's better that they lift as it adds a bit of robustness.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating. The film Fearless illustrates this–

    – Jet Li starts off by facing off against hugely muscular white fighters, and manages to defeat them by being more skilled, thereby demonstrating the “Chinese cultural superiority over whites.”

    But this is actually a “self-own”– because what if the white fighters learned become as skilled as Jet Li? whilst still being bigger and stronger.

    In real-life whites are stronger in absolute basis (World’s Strongest Men), but East Asians are arguably stronger on a pound-for-pound basis (Olympic weightlifting). And David vs. Goliath match-ups you have cases the smaller, more skilled Slavs (Fedor, Cro Cop) beating the hulking East Asian (Hong Man Choi).

    – Jet Li’s ultimate rival isn’t white, but a Japanese samurai. He duels the samurai’s katana with nunchaku and bests him. He only loses because the samurai’s associate cheated and poisoned him. Although the samurai himself is portrayed as honorable (and the whole incident a fabrication).

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon. While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon.
     
    Using farm tools as weapons is vastly better than nothing. However, they are not designed for a combat purpose and come with limitations.

    The morning star is the best known proper weapon in this category. Although, there are many other war flail examples.


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    Historic Japan had huge problems generating high quality steel due to low quality ore. While the folding process generates an aesthetically pleasing finish, it is actually a technique to partially overcome this weakness. Folding the steel adds the requisite strength. Unfortunately, it is prone to issues with brittle fracture and lamination failures. It is also ridiculously labor intensive and thus costly.

    Much like the previous discussion about Damascus Steel. A well chosen modern steel such as 1080, 1090, 5160 will outperform the historic product at a lower price point. Jatt was looking at a long combat knife in a ball bearing steel. It would be interesting to hear back on that.
    ____

    The katana was specifically optimized for the technique and armor of the period.

    As to "effective" in a general sense -- Will the wielder have armored gauntlets? The minimal katana ring guard is poor in terms of unarmored hand protection. The European hilt equivalent would go all the way back to the Roman gladius sword.

    With out substantial gauntlets, for "effectiveness" I would chose a weapon with hand protection features. At a minimum, the standard edge aligned cross guard. Additional hilt features and decoration can be added, driven by cost and weight consideration. This example is aesthetically interesting, but pushes the limits of functionality:

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/2c/28/632c28d11f0e4ed7e3e797b75cf0fe9a.png
     

    Note: I suspect this is not the intended blade & hilt paring. The blade should be blunt/ricasso behind the forward extension of the hilt.

    There does not seem to be any advantage/disadvantage for the slight curve of the katana versus the straight European lost sword layout.

    Single edge versus double edge is a heavily debated topic. I certainly do not mind the single edge approach. The various messers that I have posted about are also single edge.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTGZ7X0BTw

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @AP
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    I came across some video showing a duel between a European fencer and a Japanese expert in Kendo. The European way was more effective. It that a false conclusion?

    https://swordscholar.com/rapier-vs-katana/

    It seems that 16th century Spaniards were outfighting Japanese (though these battles involved far more than swords):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @LatW
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating
     
    It's not that it's not entertaining, it's cool to watch. But it makes one laugh more than feel at awe. What I had in mind in the original post was not really this kind of martial arts movie as the Fearless (it's well done, but I couldn't watch this kind of stuff for longer than 3 minutes).

    What I meant was kung fu movies where they actually fly, defy gravity, etc - such as in Crouching Tiger. It's entertaining, but it probably won't inspire major physical attraction in a white woman. In that movie I actually liked the older woman the most, played by Michelle Yeoh. I typically find women fighting each other repulsive and I find older women vs younger women extremely off putting (one should always help a younger woman, not "compete" with her or try to undermind her), but I did enjoy this famous scene quite a bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzkhVVFRIIg

    But see, this just highlights the problem once again - that Asian women are more attractive than Asian men (to get back to your original question). And, yes, I know Asian men are very different, some Mongol men can look really badass and ultra-masculine.

    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

     

    I'm not an expert on this at all, but according to the Russian Spetsnaz, a katana is just a tool. It can be anything instead of it, a rifle or a survival shovel, it's about how you use it and the knowledge behind it. But of course you are right - Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    Modern MMA is significantly based on Japanese martial arts, that’s just a fact. But the Japanese themselves not best at it, Slavs, Caucasians, [..] are.
     
    For Caucasians it's almost a part of national identity now. And, yes, Eastern Slavs, too, are very into it. There is a whole WN MMA scene out there called the White Rex, the White Tsar (Beliy Tsar). And way back, right after the collapse, all the Russian guys really got into Wushu (they called it "ushu").

    They also have long rather immaculate traditions of this through the military. Have you heard of the Russian Systema?

    I enjoy watching Ukrainian and Russian spetsnaz videos (even though I probably shouldn't, it's not good to lionize violence, although it's self-defence). These are just demos (they're not hitting each other all the way):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUuyiKbSM7M

    Here's a Ukrainian one, it's pretty much the same thing (it's such a shame they are now doing this to each other, ugh! They should've all been salvaged), these are such cool performances (almost like dances, so athletic and dynamic, yet so graceful). It's called рукопашный бой (hand to hand combat or close combat). It might be outdated and old fashioned and it's not what today's spetsnaz is about, but it's just so cool (especially in black uniforms, they almost look like ninjas, except they are not as small and light, but more "grounded" / robust and more filled in but they still do all those high kicks and curls in the air and I love the parts where it's almost like dancing and where they all do it in a formation).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_t12a5cGA

    Vintage Systema footage (shows how long ago it was developed):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1FOz6VAMX0

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  721. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    I see you are a fan of manga, and you are starting to confuse manga with Japan. Manga is not about the life in Japan, manga is about a life the Japanese do not live, and about what is "cute" - like all these official mascots in Japan. It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too. You see mascots invaded Japan from anime, not vice versa.

    https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-culture-mascots/

    https://teamjapanese.com/japanese-mascots/


    A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive.

     

    This, however, is a joke on true phenomenon (but not natural one). Upskirt photography is a social phenomenon in Japan, testifying to cultural avoidance of expressing desire in Japan.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3150610/coronavirus-boredom-moves-japanese-perverts-upskirt


    I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice.
     
    It is not cringy, it is sincere. They simply investigate new culture, they probably took their worship of Japan a step further and decided to confront it with reality, unlike you. On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call "rudeness", really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
    Therefore, what many Westerners take as the high sophistication of culture, as communication without words, as you when you write

    shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese.
     
    is simply cultural repression. Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides and loneliness. Sion Sono "Suicide Club" could be about the phenomenon of Japanese groupthink taken to the extreme. In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present - the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death - when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BciJn9k9VlU

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yevardian, @songbird

    In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    Didn’t know about this but God, eating dogs or live octopus, black bear bile, torturing dogs, shark-fin soup… what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals? I had at least thought Japanese were an exception. Maybe Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my arse. How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior in anything is a mystery to me.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Yevardian


    what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals?
     
    Comes down to what Thulean said about Europe being more prosperous, for the average peasant, even hundreds of years before the Industrial revolution.

    The East being more Malthusian, had less pasture and far fewer domesticated animals, in general, and this was remarked upon by many travelers. (Exception might be steppe herders, but is someone on the steppe going to be less cruel?) Whereas, in Europe, animals would be doing the labor, there were generally no animals around to do it in Japan or Korea. And you can even see this in land use - cemeteries were always on hard to climb hills. In Japan, land was measured in tatami, small mats.

    You can also see this poverty in the really strange things they eat. How many things are fermented. It seems like they will just about eat anything. And a small percentage in China do actually eat cats.

    Some have said that dogs have domesticated us. Well, in places where there was less pasturage, they were probably a lot less useful and a lot less practical. This might explain why they are more commonly considered food there.

    But I think these attitudes are changing significantly. Dog of Flanders (a maudlin story about a loyal cart-dog) was a huge hit in Japan.

    If you read Pinker, people in Europe were undoubtedly much crueler to animals in the past. Some say the difference is selection for IQ, but I am not so sure. I can go to pictures of my great grandparents - they looked like much harder people, less fat in the face. But I doubt they were less intelligent, even if they were less educated.
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Yevardian

    Live octopus?

    I knew about live monkey brains but haven't heard that one. Also you left out eel sushi. Some customs just do not travel at all. Have you ever been to a bullfight?

    The most idiotic custom in my zip code is people take internal combustion engines out to the wilderness--snowmobiles, motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles.

    1. no exercise
    2. pollutes your own fresh air
    3. all the wildlife can hear you coming from a half mile away
    4. any humans out there are disgusted at your existence

    , @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    disgusting levels of cruelty to animals
     
    Countries with most cruelty to animals in quantitative meaning will be countries with the most factory farm industries. United States of America, South America. In Europe, countries like Poland.

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube. A lot of the sadism to animals is related to an American industry for selling civilians military equipment, nightvision etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAj-YQNhac. Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.


    Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my
     
    There isn't especially distinction of Eastern Asian spiritual tradition and Indian spiritual tradition, as Indian spiritual tradition is the origin of the main religions of East Asian, as Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean spiritual tradition is origin of religions of the West.

    Eastern Asian spiritual traditions are significantly imported from Ancient Indian religion/philosophy while Western spiritual traditions are derivation from the Ancient Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean religion.

    Today, it's like "Apple vs Microsoft" and the product work more with one person's brain, than another, as the traditions have different origin and personality. East Asian religion on average can likely be more attractive for the more cognitive and "cold-blood" personality and Western religion more attractive for the more emotional "hot-blood" personality.

    -

    Eastern tradition is more rational, cognitive, repeatable (attaining spiritual results in consistent way), as it include the Ancient Indian thought culture and methodology.

    Western religion tradition, from desert holymen of Eastern Mediterranean, less cognitive, more extreme and emotional, origin in talking to angels and tribal violence, but also including universalist rejection of the tribal violence. A lot of methodology of the desert holymen has been not used in the recent years, except by some traditions like Carmelites etc. So, Jesus has fasted for 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean Desert, while modern people are claiming to be religious without any experiences like the one which created the religion.

    To understand Eastern religion origin, you will need to be meditating in the forest of India.
    To know the Western religion origin, need to be in the Judean desert or at least the atmosphere of Eastern Mediterranean.

    Islam has some honesty, as everyone has to go to Mecca and understand the culture that designed their user interface etc.


    . How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior
     
    I think the view is they are less disconnected from earlier historical epoch, not more morally universalist in the wider society.

    Anti-cruelty to animals is important part of Eastern spiritual tradition. Buddhist monks are careful to not even injure the insects.

    But there is significant distinction in the Buddhist religion between religious clergy and the ordinary public. So, the behavior of the religious clergy, is often not spreading to the normal people.

    In some historical epochs, Buddhist teachings could be viewed too extreme (like some Christian teaching "turn the other cheek") to be followed by the nonclergy population.

    A Buddhist monk in Vietnam will be careful not to injure a fish, but they won't be saying the Vietnamese peasant has to follow this and not eat fish. Buddhist monk will only ask for food and money from the Vietnamese peasant, not for the Vietnamese peasant to follow their teaching.

    In church fathers of Christianity, developed also significant extent of the distinction between clergy and the normal people, where they teach the normal people something different than what they follow as clergy (rejection in this can be later part motive for Reformation), but those original religious cults in the Middle East generally have less of distinction and all normal people were supposed adopt to teaching. So, in text from Moses or Jesus is not behaving like a Buddhist monk that allows the peasants to follow a less strict teaching. They say everyone has to to follow their teaching.

    Replies: @Sean, @songbird, @AP

  722. @Another Polish Perspective
    @songbird

    I see you are a fan of manga, and you are starting to confuse manga with Japan. Manga is not about the life in Japan, manga is about a life the Japanese do not live, and about what is "cute" - like all these official mascots in Japan. It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too. You see mascots invaded Japan from anime, not vice versa.

    https://www.fluentu.com/blog/japanese/japanese-culture-mascots/

    https://teamjapanese.com/japanese-mascots/


    A boy may get a nosebleed, when he sees the wind blow up a girl’s skirt, but in a way it is satirical, and it feels natural and not subversive.

     

    This, however, is a joke on true phenomenon (but not natural one). Upskirt photography is a social phenomenon in Japan, testifying to cultural avoidance of expressing desire in Japan.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3150610/coronavirus-boredom-moves-japanese-perverts-upskirt


    I really dislike to see white people in the East engage in cringey behavior, like talking about Japanese or Chinese prejudice.
     
    It is not cringy, it is sincere. They simply investigate new culture, they probably took their worship of Japan a step further and decided to confront it with reality, unlike you. On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call "rudeness", really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.
    Therefore, what many Westerners take as the high sophistication of culture, as communication without words, as you when you write

    shyness and subtlety, and unvoiced purposes and thoughts, which I see as being very Japanese.
     
    is simply cultural repression. Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides and loneliness. Sion Sono "Suicide Club" could be about the phenomenon of Japanese groupthink taken to the extreme. In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present - the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death - when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BciJn9k9VlU

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Yevardian, @songbird

    I see you are a fan of manga

    I would not say this exactly, as I have never really read a manga. Not that I would have some principle against doing so, but I feel it would be difficult for various reasons. Finding something worthwhile, that would not be a retread for me of something that was derived from a manga. And reading it in its entirety in a comfortable manner. I don’t really like to own many books.

    [MORE]

    What I am a fan of is the idea of manga. It seems a cheap way to test out ideas and plots, and see what resonates. There seems to be much more variety in them than in American comic books. Many genres.

    It is also unavoidably fascinating to someone like me, interested in HBD, to see the sex differences, in the animation meant for different markets. I genuinely suspect that it involves hard-wired differences in the brain that have to do with many things, such as hunting vs. gathering. Minding the baby vs. facing wild beasts.

    It is escapism in the West, it is escapism in Japan too.

    Oh, I know this. It appeals to a fringe audience (but a bigger one). But isn’t this everything nowadays? and escapism shows truth and can even influence us positively.

    It is not cringy, it is sincere.

    Sincere things can be cringey, if they are not moral and do not show self-restraint and consideration.

    On the other hand, the Japanese living in Poland and learning Polish, after they survive their first contact with what they initially call “rudeness”, really start appreciating Polish sincerity in everyday contacts (which is much more pronounced than English or American sincerity too). They say this is very lacking in Japanese culture.

    You’ve misunderstood me. I am talking specifically about issues related to open borders and immigration.

    For example, a Euro vlogger in China will say that he has noticed an uptick in Chinese xenophobia and maybe some official policies which make him and his family feel uncomfortable. Of course, this is highly obnoxious behavior because it is very selfish because it is based on self-feeling, and does not consider group well-being, or that China might be harmed by adopting the welcoming attitude of states in Western Europe.

    And that is just one example. It is easy to see it operating in the opposite direction in Europe. And probably at at least 100x the scale, and that is only considering East Asians and not other peoples.

    is simply cultural repression.

    There is a certain idea that Edo-era Japan was much more libertine, and that Tokugara, because of the influence of foreigners, was their Victorian period, where the social mores really became stringent.

    But Japan seems fairly degenerate today, so I do not favor a strong cultural answer to what I might perceive as the good parts of it.

    Remember, Japan is a country with a high-level of suicides

    many people think this is something genetic, and has to do with group-selection. That Japanese remove themselves from society, when they feel they don’t fit in.

    I take no firm opinion, and haven’t looked into it much, but would say that I suspect that it has a lot to do with the bad aspects of modern living, and may relate to the high urbanization rate.

    another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present

    I really don’t like the masks. I find it inhuman and alien. Some will say it is only culture, but I suspect layered on genetics.

    I have sometimes wondered what a split Japan would look like, if you took all the Japanese who may not like wearing masks and put them together in one place. Perhaps, even I, who hate masks, would realize that there is some sort of social cost to it. That the people who don’t like to wear them are less socially minded.

  723. @AP
    @German_reader


    "Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism."

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.
     
    It's not that different in terms of both peoples not celebrating the evils of Bandera or Stalin and instead focusing on a semi-mythologized image of each man.

    But it's very different in terms of what they celebrate about him.

    Russians who support Stalin for the most part don't support gulags, mass executions, and murdering millions by famine. Indeed, they often deny or minimize that these things were done. They support Stalin out of a mix of nostalgia for the Soviet Union, glorious military victory, that under him they lived in a feared and respected Great Power.

    Ukrainians who support Bandera don't support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement's anti-colonial national liberation against foreign imperialists and consider that his struggle made later democracy possible. Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    That both groups mythologize and support odious figures is true (though Stalin was much worse than Bandera).

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William, @German_reader

    …Ukrainians who support Bandera don’t support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement’s anti-colonial national liberation…and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism…he must have been a very confused individual.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself – he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult. Genghis-khan is an ancient history, close to 1,ooo years, similar Ceasar w Gauls, or Charlemagne w Saxons…but WW2 is not.

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of “Banderism” in the modern Ukraine will be that it can’t survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders – the pro-Russian “half” of the population can’t stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia. So why was this idiocy allowed to bloom?

    A few years from now someone will write a book about the doomed Ukie attempt to have it all: fight Russia to death, destroy its own Russian minority, steal everything, move to Europe, worship WW2 Nazis. It couldn’t be done. A smarter national movement would be selective and do things gradually – but Ukies went nuts, totally undisciplined and emotional. They will lose and it is rather sad, because on top of the loss, there will piles of new victims to cry over for generations. It didn’t have to be this way.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Beckow


    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism…he must have been a very confused individual.
     
    Not really. The Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself – he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult.
     
    You have managed to say something I agree with. Is there an eclipse somewhere?

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of “Banderism” in the modern Ukraine will be that it can’t survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders – the pro-Russian “half” of the population can’t stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia.
     
    The war has changed this. Bandera has become popular even in the East.

    There is a joke that Putin managed to do what Galician nationalists have not done in 30 years of independence - convinced Eastern Ukrainians that Bandera was right about Russia.

    Replies: @Beckow

  724. @Yevardian
    @Another Polish Perspective


    In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).
     
    Didn't know about this but God, eating dogs or live octopus, black bear bile, torturing dogs, shark-fin soup... what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals? I had at least thought Japanese were an exception. Maybe Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    'Eastern Spirituality' my arse. How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior in anything is a mystery to me.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals?

    Comes down to what Thulean said about Europe being more prosperous, for the average peasant, even hundreds of years before the Industrial revolution.

    The East being more Malthusian, had less pasture and far fewer domesticated animals, in general, and this was remarked upon by many travelers. (Exception might be steppe herders, but is someone on the steppe going to be less cruel?) Whereas, in Europe, animals would be doing the labor, there were generally no animals around to do it in Japan or Korea. And you can even see this in land use – cemeteries were always on hard to climb hills. In Japan, land was measured in tatami, small mats.

    [MORE]

    You can also see this poverty in the really strange things they eat. How many things are fermented. It seems like they will just about eat anything. And a small percentage in China do actually eat cats.

    Some have said that dogs have domesticated us. Well, in places where there was less pasturage, they were probably a lot less useful and a lot less practical. This might explain why they are more commonly considered food there.

    But I think these attitudes are changing significantly. Dog of Flanders (a maudlin story about a loyal cart-dog) was a huge hit in Japan.

    If you read Pinker, people in Europe were undoubtedly much crueler to animals in the past. Some say the difference is selection for IQ, but I am not so sure. I can go to pictures of my great grandparents – they looked like much harder people, less fat in the face. But I doubt they were less intelligent, even if they were less educated.

  725. Contrary to kremlinstoogeA123’s constant foolish menagerie of pronouncements trying to indicate that Israelis don’t support Ukraine, Israeli Foreign Minister Elli Cohen recently arrived in Ukraine (the first such visit since the war began by such a high positioned Israeli political figure) to reaffirm that Israel does indeed support Ukraine. Looks like the Israeli’s are finally getting off the fence and are reaffirming what many around the world already know, that Ukraine is winning this war.

    “nobody wants to back a loser”

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    menagerie of pronouncements
     
    Colorful phrase - I like it. Thought am not sure I would write it into a physical speech.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

  726. @AP
    @German_reader


    "Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism."

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.
     
    It's not that different in terms of both peoples not celebrating the evils of Bandera or Stalin and instead focusing on a semi-mythologized image of each man.

    But it's very different in terms of what they celebrate about him.

    Russians who support Stalin for the most part don't support gulags, mass executions, and murdering millions by famine. Indeed, they often deny or minimize that these things were done. They support Stalin out of a mix of nostalgia for the Soviet Union, glorious military victory, that under him they lived in a feared and respected Great Power.

    Ukrainians who support Bandera don't support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement's anti-colonial national liberation against foreign imperialists and consider that his struggle made later democracy possible. Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    That both groups mythologize and support odious figures is true (though Stalin was much worse than Bandera).

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William, @German_reader

    The Irish do the same thing with Michael Collins.

    Really it’s best to not deify human beings. I don’t even think the Founding Fathers or other Presidents should have statues or be on US currency.

  727. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I also like the pop music in Japanese anime better. It just has an emotional tone that suits my own attitude to life more - but then I'm not really spiritually at home in America :) A sense of sadness, yearning, no doubt based on the Buddhist sense of the evanescence of life, but somehow combined with energy - not a languid, passive sadness - perhaps a determination to live with vigor despite it's uncertainty and briefness.

    But these are just words and it's hard to describe. It is what it is.

    Thanks for your recommendations!

    They are not embarrassing at all. I've seen Your Name and I thought it was brilliant. A deeply moving, sad, movie. It's good to see these kinds of movies still being made and becoming popular. It's easily one of the best movies I've watched in the past few years.

    Garden of Rain by the same director is also superb, and I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second, a rather meditative film and one that Dmitry once told me was "boring". But Dmitry just might be a Philistine :)

    As for Your Life in April, I've seen that on Netflix - your description is very good and I shall now have to check it out - thanks :)

    I think you'd enjoy the Boy and The Beast, also a moving film, and the Sword of the Stranger. The Berserk films are also superb, but very to dark and with some disturbing scenes especially towards the end.

    Thanks for your description of Your Life in April!

    Replies: @songbird, @songbird

    One more thing I wanted to mention:

    I got into the series I mentioned because I heard the music first, and it made an impression on me. The music is often how I first encounter an anime, and get inspired to try it. I think this speaks as a mark against the idea that the Japanese are somehow less creative, though there are some Japanese who do believe this.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I like this idea a lot, to judge an anime by it's music :) I have to say on some animes the opening and closing songs are absolutely essential to my appreciation for the shows, and I never skip them - on Western shows, even series I love, it's rare for me not to skip the intro!

    Cultures can really be so different.

    I don't think the Japanese are uncreative at all - I think as a society they simply have different goals than the West, and are immensely creative in different areas and in different ways. I actually want to write up my ideas on this - I call Asian creativity "horizontal creativity", as it spreads out into space and explores the human experience, and Western creativity "vertical creativity" as it aims upwards and towards transforming human nature and experience. Of course, there is overlap - but these broad types strike me as true.

    There is something one might call "civilizational autism" which afflicts particularly large and successful civilizations, in which they cannot understand that other cultures might have different values and goals from them, so they describe those cultures as deficient, when they in fact just want different things.

    One of the things you discover when you travel to poorer and less developed countries, is that often, they don't consider themselves in the least inferior to developed countries, and consider themselves vastly superior in areas of life that they prioritize.

    It's a disconcerting feeling to be looked down upon, and even pitied, in a country that is officially inferior in every way :)

    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an "autistic" and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.

    People who find this a mystery cannot understand that technology and domination of nature may not be every cultures priority - they do not have the theory of mind that would allow them to understand people unlike themselves. In fact, even a passing acquaintance with classical Chinese culture should make one aware that the value of technology was considered strictly limited, and often even ambiguous and uncertain, whereas a perusal of Aristotle or any of the great ancient thinkers should apprise one of the fact that the ancient world prized contemplation over techne, and thought that intellectual activity directed towards some "useful" end rather was distinctly inferior and de-prioritized.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  728. @Mr. Hack
    Contrary to kremlinstoogeA123's constant foolish menagerie of pronouncements trying to indicate that Israelis don't support Ukraine, Israeli Foreign Minister Elli Cohen recently arrived in Ukraine (the first such visit since the war began by such a high positioned Israeli political figure) to reaffirm that Israel does indeed support Ukraine. Looks like the Israeli's are finally getting off the fence and are reaffirming what many around the world already know, that Ukraine is winning this war.

    "nobody wants to back a loser"

    https://youtu.be/BrGwcpDuhcM

    Replies: @songbird

    menagerie of pronouncements

    Colorful phrase – I like it. Thought am not sure I would write it into a physical speech.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I've never written a speech before. I limit my utterings to obscure comments made on marginal websites. :-) Long ago when I was in college, I often received high marks for my papers that I wrote, or even take home exams.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I just got through watching one of Anthony Bourdain's travelogues, one where he visits Japan. While thinking about the tastes and smells that he would encounter while in Tokyo, he summed up his feelings by stating that he was anticipating "a psychedelic assault on his senses". I liked how he phrased this, and it reminded me of your earlier comment about "colorful phrases". :-)

    Replies: @songbird

  729. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating. The film Fearless illustrates this--

    - Jet Li starts off by facing off against hugely muscular white fighters, and manages to defeat them by being more skilled, thereby demonstrating the "Chinese cultural superiority over whites."

    But this is actually a "self-own"-- because what if the white fighters learned become as skilled as Jet Li? whilst still being bigger and stronger.

    In real-life whites are stronger in absolute basis (World's Strongest Men), but East Asians are arguably stronger on a pound-for-pound basis (Olympic weightlifting). And David vs. Goliath match-ups you have cases the smaller, more skilled Slavs (Fedor, Cro Cop) beating the hulking East Asian (Hong Man Choi).

    - Jet Li's ultimate rival isn't white, but a Japanese samurai. He duels the samurai's katana with nunchaku and bests him. He only loses because the samurai's associate cheated and poisoned him. Although the samurai himself is portrayed as honorable (and the whole incident a fabrication).

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon. While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5wmpsW-Yk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4MZlPNU1w

    Replies: @A123, @AP, @LatW

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon.

    Using farm tools as weapons is vastly better than nothing. However, they are not designed for a combat purpose and come with limitations.

    The morning star is the best known proper weapon in this category. Although, there are many other war flail examples.

    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

    Historic Japan had huge problems generating high quality steel due to low quality ore. While the folding process generates an aesthetically pleasing finish, it is actually a technique to partially overcome this weakness. Folding the steel adds the requisite strength. Unfortunately, it is prone to issues with brittle fracture and lamination failures. It is also ridiculously labor intensive and thus costly.

    Much like the previous discussion about Damascus Steel. A well chosen modern steel such as 1080, 1090, 5160 will outperform the historic product at a lower price point. Jatt was looking at a long combat knife in a ball bearing steel. It would be interesting to hear back on that.
    ____

    The katana was specifically optimized for the technique and armor of the period.

    As to “effective” in a general sense — Will the wielder have armored gauntlets? The minimal katana ring guard is poor in terms of unarmored hand protection. The European hilt equivalent would go all the way back to the Roman gladius sword.

    With out substantial gauntlets, for “effectiveness” I would chose a weapon with hand protection features. At a minimum, the standard edge aligned cross guard. Additional hilt features and decoration can be added, driven by cost and weight consideration. This example is aesthetically interesting, but pushes the limits of functionality:

      

    Note: I suspect this is not the intended blade & hilt paring. The blade should be blunt/ricasso behind the forward extension of the hilt.

    There does not seem to be any advantage/disadvantage for the slight curve of the katana versus the straight European lost sword layout.

    Single edge versus double edge is a heavily debated topic. I certainly do not mind the single edge approach. The various messers that I have posted about are also single edge.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @A123
    @A123


    European lost sword layout.
     
    Stupid autocorrect... That should be:

    European *long* sword layout.

    PEACE 😇
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    I remember reading somewhere that during WW2 the Dutch Colonial Troops in Indonesia sporadically used native Indonesian swords (different variants of kris, klewang, rencong) against the sword-wielding Japanese (blade against blade fight) with noticeable success, and it was noted that the Japanese (even officers from samurai families) had surprisingly low swordfighting competences. Klewang was even adopted by the Dutch as the standard issue for their colonial officers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klewang

    Here you see the native troops of the Dutch colonial KNIL army, wielding swords:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/COLLECTIE_TROPENMUSEUM_Een_groep_Indische_militairen_rust_uit_bij_het_oversteken_van_een_rivier_TMnr_10001951.jpg

    So katana is not the best sword, but one with perhaps the highest level of mysticism surrounding it.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    I don't have a take on Japanese vs. European steel. But Japanese steel is definitely superior to Chinese steel, even though the latter has an older history. Most of swordsmith know-how were not passed down due to dynastic overthrows.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_sword

    And imitation is the best form of flattery,


    Chinese wodao was developed based on the Japanese sword used by the wokou pirates, a mixed group of Japanese and Chinese who repeatedly looted in the Chinese coast.[2][3] Qi Jiguang (1528-1588 AD), a general of the Ming Dynasty, studied wokou's tactics and Japanese swords to repel wokou pirates.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodao

    *Actually nunchaku is originally based on a Chinese weapon,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-section_staff

    Replies: @A123

  730. @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon.
     
    Using farm tools as weapons is vastly better than nothing. However, they are not designed for a combat purpose and come with limitations.

    The morning star is the best known proper weapon in this category. Although, there are many other war flail examples.


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    Historic Japan had huge problems generating high quality steel due to low quality ore. While the folding process generates an aesthetically pleasing finish, it is actually a technique to partially overcome this weakness. Folding the steel adds the requisite strength. Unfortunately, it is prone to issues with brittle fracture and lamination failures. It is also ridiculously labor intensive and thus costly.

    Much like the previous discussion about Damascus Steel. A well chosen modern steel such as 1080, 1090, 5160 will outperform the historic product at a lower price point. Jatt was looking at a long combat knife in a ball bearing steel. It would be interesting to hear back on that.
    ____

    The katana was specifically optimized for the technique and armor of the period.

    As to "effective" in a general sense -- Will the wielder have armored gauntlets? The minimal katana ring guard is poor in terms of unarmored hand protection. The European hilt equivalent would go all the way back to the Roman gladius sword.

    With out substantial gauntlets, for "effectiveness" I would chose a weapon with hand protection features. At a minimum, the standard edge aligned cross guard. Additional hilt features and decoration can be added, driven by cost and weight consideration. This example is aesthetically interesting, but pushes the limits of functionality:

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/2c/28/632c28d11f0e4ed7e3e797b75cf0fe9a.png
     

    Note: I suspect this is not the intended blade & hilt paring. The blade should be blunt/ricasso behind the forward extension of the hilt.

    There does not seem to be any advantage/disadvantage for the slight curve of the katana versus the straight European lost sword layout.

    Single edge versus double edge is a heavily debated topic. I certainly do not mind the single edge approach. The various messers that I have posted about are also single edge.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTGZ7X0BTw

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    European lost sword layout.

    Stupid autocorrect… That should be:

    European *long* sword layout.

    PEACE 😇

  731. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government....Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?
     
    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko, or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk, etc.. nationalists and none of them would be considered a Nazi. Even Poroshenko (not sure). The problem with Zelko is that he has gone nuts, he is not a "Nazi" by any standard, but has started to endorse and tolerate the Nazi nationalists who worship Bandera - Russians for a good reason consider that Nazi-like. As do Poles, Slovaks, Czechs, Jews - and almost all of the West before they decided that for political reasons they will look the other way.

    You massively exaggerate the Russian position that is more moderate - although it is radicalizing. In effect, you are lying for a losing cause - Ukies are not going to win - not a good place to be. It also prevents a dialogue: demonizing your enemy is the worst strategy if you are the weaker side. Kiev could have ended this with a reasonable compromise - with Minsk, or last spring with Minsk+, a peace agreement that would not be perfect, temporary, but would save tens of thousands of lives.

    It is obvious to any rational observer that Russia will not back down unless totally defeated. The defeat is very unlikely, so this will go on killing countless Ukies and some Russians, destroying the country, making some in the West (and in Ukraine) rich, and it will eventually end with a deal that Kiev could have had at any point. Or, alternatively, Ukies will go down in a total defeat and all you dreams - even the normal ones - will be destroyed for a generation.

    Those are the choices. All else are false hopes, hoping for miracles, and pure unadulterated hatred and anger. Ukies (and you) had a choice and they chose wrong...it happens, but the triple doubling down as they are doing now is rare.

    Replies: @AP

    “…According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government….Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?”

    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko,

    Klitschko, one of the key members of the “Nazi” Maidan?

    Here is Russian media:

    https://ria.ru/20230212/veteran-1851525629.html

    Approvingly quoting a veteran calling Klitschko a traitor to the Motherland and a fascist.

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3579377.html

    It doesn’t matter if Klitschko is half Russian, Nazis come in all ethnicities, it says.

    or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk

    You forgot how the “Nazi” Tymoshenko supposedly said she was going to nuke Russia?

    Kravchuk is dead.

    Even Poroshenko (not sure).

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28049565

    “Ukraine: Putin aide brands Poroshenko ‘Nazi’ ahead of EU deal”

    ::::::::::::

    Yes, every Ukrainian nationalist is a Nazi by Kremlin definition, so de-Nazification means removal of all Ukrainian nationalism from poltics and society. To turn the country (against its will) into a Belarus.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @AP


    Yes, every Ukrainian nationalist is a Nazi by Kremlin definition, so de-Nazification means removal of all Ukrainian nationalism from poltics and society. To turn the country (against its will) into a Belarus.
     
    Israel's Naftali Bennett claims that Russia was willing to drop the "denazification" demand in the negotiations in spring 2022. How much of that is true and if it was a sincere offer, is of course hard to know, but given what has happened since then (not least the annexations which make any deal almost impossible), the possibility should have been explored.
  732. @Sean
    @Yahya

    Try and get your mind off of my nether regions.

    Watson's 'sun and sex' lecture upsets audience - Naturehttps://www.nature.com › nature medicine › news
    by BU MedicalSchool — Nobel Laureate James Watson was keeping quiet last month after reportedly claiming in a lecture that dark-skinned people have a stronger libido than ...
     

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/no-wait-real-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180970950/
    The transition to white skin was in the Neolithic? No, it was in the Bronze Age

    Replies: @songbird

    Believe there was some Roman writer who advised that black guard dogs were the best. His reasoning was that it was harder to see them at night, but, perhaps, he was just trying to explain it, and didn’t know the real reason.

    I can believe it may have had another explanation, when people talk about prejudice against black dogs.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @songbird

    The best Italian Guardian dog breed is the opposite of black.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/89461788/oddball-the-penguin-protector-dies-at-15-thats-105-in-dog-years

    Replies: @songbird

  733. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    menagerie of pronouncements
     
    Colorful phrase - I like it. Thought am not sure I would write it into a physical speech.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

    I’ve never written a speech before. I limit my utterings to obscure comments made on marginal websites. 🙂 Long ago when I was in college, I often received high marks for my papers that I wrote, or even take home exams.

    • Replies: @Gerard1234
    @Mr. Hack


    When I was in college. I often received high marks for the papers that I wrote.
     
    So YOU are the tapeworm responsible responsible for "Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea" and "Jesus was Ukrainian" and other anti-historical BS that khokhol Banderite freak "Education" Institutes in US (notice how it all comes from Pindostani money in some form) have tried to circulate. LOL.

    Face facts - without Russian Historians, the study of documents in Russia - the study of "Ukrainian" history is completely worthless. Certainly more so than Galician cities - the place a person can go to if they want to AVOID "Ukrainian" culture you imbecile
  734. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating. The film Fearless illustrates this--

    - Jet Li starts off by facing off against hugely muscular white fighters, and manages to defeat them by being more skilled, thereby demonstrating the "Chinese cultural superiority over whites."

    But this is actually a "self-own"-- because what if the white fighters learned become as skilled as Jet Li? whilst still being bigger and stronger.

    In real-life whites are stronger in absolute basis (World's Strongest Men), but East Asians are arguably stronger on a pound-for-pound basis (Olympic weightlifting). And David vs. Goliath match-ups you have cases the smaller, more skilled Slavs (Fedor, Cro Cop) beating the hulking East Asian (Hong Man Choi).

    - Jet Li's ultimate rival isn't white, but a Japanese samurai. He duels the samurai's katana with nunchaku and bests him. He only loses because the samurai's associate cheated and poisoned him. Although the samurai himself is portrayed as honorable (and the whole incident a fabrication).

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon. While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5wmpsW-Yk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4MZlPNU1w

    Replies: @A123, @AP, @LatW

    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

    I came across some video showing a duel between a European fencer and a Japanese expert in Kendo. The European way was more effective. It that a false conclusion?

    https://swordscholar.com/rapier-vs-katana/

    It seems that 16th century Spaniards were outfighting Japanese (though these battles involved far more than swords):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @AP

    As your article says "the rapier was never utilized on the battlefields".

    I was arguing with respect the practicality of weapons and martial arts, not fighting abilities and effectiveness, there's a story here about an European outdueling a Japanese during the Russo-Japanese War if you like,

    https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39802/was-there-a-samurai-duel-between-a-montenegrin-and-a-japanese-warrior

    Modern MMA is significantly based on Japanese martial arts, that's just a fact. But the Japanese themselves not best at it, Slavs, Caucasians, blacks are.

  735. @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Ukrainians who support Bandera don’t support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement’s anti-colonial national liberation...and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.
     
    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism...he must have been a very confused individual.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself - he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult. Genghis-khan is an ancient history, close to 1,ooo years, similar Ceasar w Gauls, or Charlemagne w Saxons...but WW2 is not.

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of "Banderism" in the modern Ukraine will be that it can't survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders - the pro-Russian "half" of the population can't stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia. So why was this idiocy allowed to bloom?

    A few years from now someone will write a book about the doomed Ukie attempt to have it all: fight Russia to death, destroy its own Russian minority, steal everything, move to Europe, worship WW2 Nazis. It couldn't be done. A smarter national movement would be selective and do things gradually - but Ukies went nuts, totally undisciplined and emotional. They will lose and it is rather sad, because on top of the loss, there will piles of new victims to cry over for generations. It didn't have to be this way.

    Replies: @AP

    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism…he must have been a very confused individual.

    Not really. The Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself – he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult.

    You have managed to say something I agree with. Is there an eclipse somewhere?

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of “Banderism” in the modern Ukraine will be that it can’t survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders – the pro-Russian “half” of the population can’t stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia.

    The war has changed this. Bandera has become popular even in the East.

    There is a joke that Putin managed to do what Galician nationalists have not done in 30 years of independence – convinced Eastern Ukrainians that Bandera was right about Russia.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @AP


    ...Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.
     
    Wrong example, they did it when Nazis staged a coup and killed the PM. It proves nothing ideologically: both fascists and commies had bloody internal fights.

    Bandera has become popular even in the East
     
    I doubt that, you put too much weight on temporary emotional statements in the middle of the war by a vocal minority. It simply doesn't work that way.

    The self-defeating promotion of "Banderism" by Kiev nationalists has antagonized Crimea-Donbas and people in Poland, and Czecho-Slovakia...don't fool yourself, we know, it is being discussed.

    But the most important impact is on Russia: there is no better way to get Russia united to fight than to wave the red-flag of Nazism in their faces. Bandera reminds them of Hitler, was that really a smart thing to do? Everyone agrees that the only way Kiev could prevail is if Russia pulls back from an all-out war - there are other reasons why they won't (Nato), but for the population the Ukie promotion of Bandera assured that they will support the war. It would be like US southerners rising up with KKK flags.

    It was more than stupid, it was a catastrophic error. Since it was done while being supervised by the Western handlers there must be a reason. That reason is probably that to rile up the Galicians+ Ukies it was necessary. Or the handlers were clueless and got overrun by the crazed locals. That happens, see Isis.

  736. @Yahya
    @Yahya

    I'll write another post on architecture and philosophy tomorrow. Too tired now.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I enjoy reading all of your posts, but had in mind “An Egyptian Soldier” and “Martyred Armenia” that you mentioned within the previous thread. You have a good writing style that lends itself especially well when reviewing books and films.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Mr. Hack

    Thanks. The first book I mentioned is actually called “Diary Of A Soldier In The Egyptian Military: A Peek Inside The Egyptian Army” by Nubar Aroyan. I doubt it would be of much interest to any non-Egyptian tbh; it has no historical value, I just picked it up randomly.

    Mark Twain wrote an entertaining travel book about his travels throughout the Mediterranean (including Egypt); which I’m sure you’ve heard of:

    https://www.amazon.com/Innocents-Abroad-Original-Illustrations/dp/1948132087/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1EIRNBF4ANEZ4&keywords=innocents+abroad&qid=1676765723&s=books&sprefix=innocents+abro%2Cstripbooks%2C266&sr=1-1

    I recommend reading that instead. It’s a bit long but well worth it. His sardonic demeanor is quite endearing; travel back then was a bit laborious, especially in less developed areas of the world; so Twain and his companions suffered during their trips in the Middle East. The group traversed throughout the Med from Portugal to Palestine; even making a stop in Odessa where they met the Russian Tsar. The destination they were most excited to visit was Palestine; since even affluent Americans at the time were fairly religious. But Twain was quite unimpressed with the smallness of the place; it dawned on him that the Biblical places he read about as a youth spanned the size of his home state Missouri.

    Another travel book I enjoyed was Samuel Johnson’s trip to the Hebrides in Scotland. I read that quite a few years ago so don’t remember much; but you can’t go wrong with the larger-than-life Johnson; he is always perceptive.

  737. @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon.
     
    Using farm tools as weapons is vastly better than nothing. However, they are not designed for a combat purpose and come with limitations.

    The morning star is the best known proper weapon in this category. Although, there are many other war flail examples.


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    Historic Japan had huge problems generating high quality steel due to low quality ore. While the folding process generates an aesthetically pleasing finish, it is actually a technique to partially overcome this weakness. Folding the steel adds the requisite strength. Unfortunately, it is prone to issues with brittle fracture and lamination failures. It is also ridiculously labor intensive and thus costly.

    Much like the previous discussion about Damascus Steel. A well chosen modern steel such as 1080, 1090, 5160 will outperform the historic product at a lower price point. Jatt was looking at a long combat knife in a ball bearing steel. It would be interesting to hear back on that.
    ____

    The katana was specifically optimized for the technique and armor of the period.

    As to "effective" in a general sense -- Will the wielder have armored gauntlets? The minimal katana ring guard is poor in terms of unarmored hand protection. The European hilt equivalent would go all the way back to the Roman gladius sword.

    With out substantial gauntlets, for "effectiveness" I would chose a weapon with hand protection features. At a minimum, the standard edge aligned cross guard. Additional hilt features and decoration can be added, driven by cost and weight consideration. This example is aesthetically interesting, but pushes the limits of functionality:

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/2c/28/632c28d11f0e4ed7e3e797b75cf0fe9a.png
     

    Note: I suspect this is not the intended blade & hilt paring. The blade should be blunt/ricasso behind the forward extension of the hilt.

    There does not seem to be any advantage/disadvantage for the slight curve of the katana versus the straight European lost sword layout.

    Single edge versus double edge is a heavily debated topic. I certainly do not mind the single edge approach. The various messers that I have posted about are also single edge.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTGZ7X0BTw

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I remember reading somewhere that during WW2 the Dutch Colonial Troops in Indonesia sporadically used native Indonesian swords (different variants of kris, klewang, rencong) against the sword-wielding Japanese (blade against blade fight) with noticeable success, and it was noted that the Japanese (even officers from samurai families) had surprisingly low swordfighting competences. Klewang was even adopted by the Dutch as the standard issue for their colonial officers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klewang

    Here you see the native troops of the Dutch colonial KNIL army, wielding swords:

    So katana is not the best sword, but one with perhaps the highest level of mysticism surrounding it.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.

    - The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

    - The Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies_campaign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_campaign_(1941–1942)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_campaign


    ジャワの極楽、ビルマの地獄、死んでも帰れぬニューギニア

    Java was paradise, Burma was hell, New Guinea will not return to if it means death

    -- Japanese veteran

     

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/蘭印作戦

    - The IJA's melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō 銃剣道

    https://i.postimg.cc/Yq5G3ptf/Jukendo-jeux-du-sanctuaire-Meiji.jpg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5crj_k1VnE

    I would be the last one to claim that East Asian culture is superior. Germans assuming the Japanese are infallible and thereby overestimating the risk of nuclear power is what in part and indirectly led to this current war.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  738. @Yevardian
    @Another Polish Perspective


    In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).
     
    Didn't know about this but God, eating dogs or live octopus, black bear bile, torturing dogs, shark-fin soup... what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals? I had at least thought Japanese were an exception. Maybe Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    'Eastern Spirituality' my arse. How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior in anything is a mystery to me.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    Live octopus?

    I knew about live monkey brains but haven’t heard that one. Also you left out eel sushi. Some customs just do not travel at all. Have you ever been to a bullfight?

    The most idiotic custom in my zip code is people take internal combustion engines out to the wilderness–snowmobiles, motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles.

    1. no exercise
    2. pollutes your own fresh air
    3. all the wildlife can hear you coming from a half mile away
    4. any humans out there are disgusted at your existence

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  739. @AP
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    I came across some video showing a duel between a European fencer and a Japanese expert in Kendo. The European way was more effective. It that a false conclusion?

    https://swordscholar.com/rapier-vs-katana/

    It seems that 16th century Spaniards were outfighting Japanese (though these battles involved far more than swords):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    As your article says “the rapier was never utilized on the battlefields”.

    I was arguing with respect the practicality of weapons and martial arts, not fighting abilities and effectiveness, there’s a story here about an European outdueling a Japanese during the Russo-Japanese War if you like,

    https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39802/was-there-a-samurai-duel-between-a-montenegrin-and-a-japanese-warrior

    Modern MMA is significantly based on Japanese martial arts, that’s just a fact. But the Japanese themselves not best at it, Slavs, Caucasians, blacks are.

  740. @songbird
    @Sean

    Believe there was some Roman writer who advised that black guard dogs were the best. His reasoning was that it was harder to see them at night, but, perhaps, he was just trying to explain it, and didn't know the real reason.

    I can believe it may have had another explanation, when people talk about prejudice against black dogs.

    Replies: @Sean

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Sean

    Maybe, a distinction for people vs. animals?

    More aggression required to bite a person, and so darker? The line I saw, I think was referring specifically to houses rather than animals. But with predators, might be better to have the dogs seen with their light colors?

    Sometime, last spring, I was in the country and saved a chicken that was in the mouth of a fox. I heard the chicken, and thought to check on it. The fox saw me moving a long way off. Can't recall what I was wearing. But he had the chicken by the rump and dropped it before he got to the underbrush, probably expecting I would catch up with him, which however I probably stood no chance of doing.

    Replies: @S

  741. @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon.
     
    Using farm tools as weapons is vastly better than nothing. However, they are not designed for a combat purpose and come with limitations.

    The morning star is the best known proper weapon in this category. Although, there are many other war flail examples.


    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.
     
    Historic Japan had huge problems generating high quality steel due to low quality ore. While the folding process generates an aesthetically pleasing finish, it is actually a technique to partially overcome this weakness. Folding the steel adds the requisite strength. Unfortunately, it is prone to issues with brittle fracture and lamination failures. It is also ridiculously labor intensive and thus costly.

    Much like the previous discussion about Damascus Steel. A well chosen modern steel such as 1080, 1090, 5160 will outperform the historic product at a lower price point. Jatt was looking at a long combat knife in a ball bearing steel. It would be interesting to hear back on that.
    ____

    The katana was specifically optimized for the technique and armor of the period.

    As to "effective" in a general sense -- Will the wielder have armored gauntlets? The minimal katana ring guard is poor in terms of unarmored hand protection. The European hilt equivalent would go all the way back to the Roman gladius sword.

    With out substantial gauntlets, for "effectiveness" I would chose a weapon with hand protection features. At a minimum, the standard edge aligned cross guard. Additional hilt features and decoration can be added, driven by cost and weight consideration. This example is aesthetically interesting, but pushes the limits of functionality:

     
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/2c/28/632c28d11f0e4ed7e3e797b75cf0fe9a.png
     

    Note: I suspect this is not the intended blade & hilt paring. The blade should be blunt/ricasso behind the forward extension of the hilt.

    There does not seem to be any advantage/disadvantage for the slight curve of the katana versus the straight European lost sword layout.

    Single edge versus double edge is a heavily debated topic. I certainly do not mind the single edge approach. The various messers that I have posted about are also single edge.

    PEACE 😇

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZTGZ7X0BTw

    Replies: @A123, @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I don’t have a take on Japanese vs. European steel. But Japanese steel is definitely superior to Chinese steel, even though the latter has an older history. Most of swordsmith know-how were not passed down due to dynastic overthrows.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_sword

    And imitation is the best form of flattery,

    Chinese wodao was developed based on the Japanese sword used by the wokou pirates, a mixed group of Japanese and Chinese who repeatedly looted in the Chinese coast.[2][3] Qi Jiguang (1528-1588 AD), a general of the Ming Dynasty, studied wokou’s tactics and Japanese swords to repel wokou pirates.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodao

    *Actually nunchaku is originally based on a Chinese weapon,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-section_staff

    • Replies: @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Wikipedia is a highly problematic source that should be avoided as much as possible.

    As an intentional weapon design, nunchucks make no sense. A better explanation is: (1)


    Nunchuck is a variant of a word from the Japanese dialect of Okinawa, nunchaku, which itself may come from a Taiwanese word for a kind of farming tool, neng-cak.
     
    As farming tool, the construction has much more purpose. It could be slipped through a belt for easy carry. Crushing, squeezing, hammering, and even light threshing are possible applications.
    ___

    Double chain, three section, weapon construction has no combat purpose. And, is highly likely to be a personal hazard.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwndJvxrMM

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/nunchucks-word-origin-history

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  742. @Yevardian
    @Another Polish Perspective


    In this movie, another extremely Westerners-unsettling element of Japanese culture is present – the crush fetish, of crushing live animals to death – when Genesis leader crushes two animals to death (not in the clip below).
     
    Didn't know about this but God, eating dogs or live octopus, black bear bile, torturing dogs, shark-fin soup... what is it with East Asians and these disgusting levels of cruelty to animals? I had at least thought Japanese were an exception. Maybe Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    'Eastern Spirituality' my arse. How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior in anything is a mystery to me.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Dmitry

    disgusting levels of cruelty to animals

    Countries with most cruelty to animals in quantitative meaning will be countries with the most factory farm industries. United States of America, South America. In Europe, countries like Poland.

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube. A lot of the sadism to animals is related to an American industry for selling civilians military equipment, nightvision etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAj-YQNhac. Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.

    Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my

    There isn’t especially distinction of Eastern Asian spiritual tradition and Indian spiritual tradition, as Indian spiritual tradition is the origin of the main religions of East Asian, as Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean spiritual tradition is origin of religions of the West.

    Eastern Asian spiritual traditions are significantly imported from Ancient Indian religion/philosophy while Western spiritual traditions are derivation from the Ancient Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean religion.

    Today, it’s like “Apple vs Microsoft” and the product work more with one person’s brain, than another, as the traditions have different origin and personality. East Asian religion on average can likely be more attractive for the more cognitive and “cold-blood” personality and Western religion more attractive for the more emotional “hot-blood” personality.

    Eastern tradition is more rational, cognitive, repeatable (attaining spiritual results in consistent way), as it include the Ancient Indian thought culture and methodology.

    Western religion tradition, from desert holymen of Eastern Mediterranean, less cognitive, more extreme and emotional, origin in talking to angels and tribal violence, but also including universalist rejection of the tribal violence. A lot of methodology of the desert holymen has been not used in the recent years, except by some traditions like Carmelites etc. So, Jesus has fasted for 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean Desert, while modern people are claiming to be religious without any experiences like the one which created the religion.

    To understand Eastern religion origin, you will need to be meditating in the forest of India.
    To know the Western religion origin, need to be in the Judean desert or at least the atmosphere of Eastern Mediterranean.

    Islam has some honesty, as everyone has to go to Mecca and understand the culture that designed their user interface etc.

    . How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior

    I think the view is they are less disconnected from earlier historical epoch, not more morally universalist in the wider society.

    Anti-cruelty to animals is important part of Eastern spiritual tradition. Buddhist monks are careful to not even injure the insects.

    But there is significant distinction in the Buddhist religion between religious clergy and the ordinary public. So, the behavior of the religious clergy, is often not spreading to the normal people.

    In some historical epochs, Buddhist teachings could be viewed too extreme (like some Christian teaching “turn the other cheek”) to be followed by the nonclergy population.

    A Buddhist monk in Vietnam will be careful not to injure a fish, but they won’t be saying the Vietnamese peasant has to follow this and not eat fish. Buddhist monk will only ask for food and money from the Vietnamese peasant, not for the Vietnamese peasant to follow their teaching.

    In church fathers of Christianity, developed also significant extent of the distinction between clergy and the normal people, where they teach the normal people something different than what they follow as clergy (rejection in this can be later part motive for Reformation), but those original religious cults in the Middle East generally have less of distinction and all normal people were supposed adopt to teaching. So, in text from Moses or Jesus is not behaving like a Buddhist monk that allows the peasants to follow a less strict teaching. They say everyone has to to follow their teaching.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Sean
    @Dmitry

    A key concept of Christianity is Purgatory, which entails the efficacy of praying for the dead. The Reformation rejected Purgatory. The Orthodox Church does too.

    , @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.
     
    Please tell us, if you have been to bear shows. I have an insatiable curiosity to know, whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.

    I shall answer my own question: I have encountered bears multiple times in zoos, and in the wild. Once in a trick show, but I think what made the biggest impression on me was going into some special trailer at a fair, and seeing an old lady feed bears peanuts, very up close, through a glass wall.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.
     
    Far more Chinese eat dogs (there is apparently the belief that when an animal dies in pain its meat tastes better so they boil them alive or hang them alive and fry them with blowtorches) and engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.

    For example, baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.

    There is a disturbing video of the "art" of eating a live fish that has been flash-cooked so its organs still function and it tries to breath at the table while Chinese diners cut chunks of flesh off it. It takes 1.2 an hour for the fish to die. (see under "more" tag)

    Factor farms are also horrible but American diners aren't sadists who watch that stuff as they eat.

    Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.
     
    This is true but it doesn't have much to do with cruelty.

    Not for the squeamish:



    https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1625387648213712896?s=20

    Replies: @Dmitry

  743. @Another Polish Perspective
    @A123

    I remember reading somewhere that during WW2 the Dutch Colonial Troops in Indonesia sporadically used native Indonesian swords (different variants of kris, klewang, rencong) against the sword-wielding Japanese (blade against blade fight) with noticeable success, and it was noted that the Japanese (even officers from samurai families) had surprisingly low swordfighting competences. Klewang was even adopted by the Dutch as the standard issue for their colonial officers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klewang

    Here you see the native troops of the Dutch colonial KNIL army, wielding swords:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/COLLECTIE_TROPENMUSEUM_Een_groep_Indische_militairen_rust_uit_bij_het_oversteken_van_een_rivier_TMnr_10001951.jpg

    So katana is not the best sword, but one with perhaps the highest level of mysticism surrounding it.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.

    – The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

    – The Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies_campaign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_campaign_(1941–1942)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_campaign

    ジャワの極楽、ビルマの地獄、死んでも帰れぬニューギニア

    Java was paradise, Burma was hell, New Guinea will not return to if it means death

    — Japanese veteran

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/蘭印作戦

    – The IJA’s melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō 銃剣道

    I would be the last one to claim that East Asian culture is superior. Germans assuming the Japanese are infallible and thereby overestimating the risk of nuclear power is what in part and indirectly led to this current war.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.
     
    I did not claim to make my comments on Japan as a professional historian, my field isn't Far East. I can speak as just a commenter as everyone else, can't I? There are people here who summon the authority of the Ukrainian Academy Sciences without offering footnotes, too.

    The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,
     
    But still high. I did not say Japan had the highest world suicide rate.

    he Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen
     
    I did not deny the final outcome.

    The IJA’s melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō
     
    You can go with sword against bayonet too. But I specifically remember that Japanese officers had swords - so at least the Dutch sources, and I remember it was a trophy popular among Americans too. I lived for some time in Netherlands, but I am not there anymore, so I can't check it for you. But apparently some Dutch fought some Japanese with blades, and the former bested the latter.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  744. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.

    - The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

    - The Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies_campaign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_campaign_(1941–1942)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_campaign


    ジャワの極楽、ビルマの地獄、死んでも帰れぬニューギニア

    Java was paradise, Burma was hell, New Guinea will not return to if it means death

    -- Japanese veteran

     

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/蘭印作戦

    - The IJA's melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō 銃剣道

    https://i.postimg.cc/Yq5G3ptf/Jukendo-jeux-du-sanctuaire-Meiji.jpg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5crj_k1VnE

    I would be the last one to claim that East Asian culture is superior. Germans assuming the Japanese are infallible and thereby overestimating the risk of nuclear power is what in part and indirectly led to this current war.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.

    I did not claim to make my comments on Japan as a professional historian, my field isn’t Far East. I can speak as just a commenter as everyone else, can’t I? There are people here who summon the authority of the Ukrainian Academy Sciences without offering footnotes, too.

    The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,

    But still high. I did not say Japan had the highest world suicide rate.

    he Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen

    I did not deny the final outcome.

    The IJA’s melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō

    You can go with sword against bayonet too. But I specifically remember that Japanese officers had swords – so at least the Dutch sources, and I remember it was a trophy popular among Americans too. I lived for some time in Netherlands, but I am not there anymore, so I can’t check it for you. But apparently some Dutch fought some Japanese with blades, and the former bested the latter.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think Japan is often singled out for suicides due to two factors:

    1) seppuku tradition
    2) finding partners for suicide, popularity of double suicides etc. This somehow twists the Western notion of suicide as the conclusion of a deep personal crisis. If such a crisis exists, for the Western mind it is obvious that it will give you enough strength to die on your own; help is needed to survive, not to die. But in Japan, it is apparently the opposite. I think Sion Sono "Suicide club" was a bit about this phenomenon.
    In Sono other movie, "Himizu", there is this side character of wannabe murderer who becomes a real murderer after meeting his "soulmate". This is also bizarre from Western perspective, where being a murderer is usually a lonely occupation.

    To sum up, dying in Japan can sometimes look childish: it is after all children who will always seek a partner to do something "horrible" together.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context. The Chinese in 1945 unlike the Eastern Europeans vis-a-vie Volkdeutsche, took very few acts of revanchism against Japanese civilians, most of whom were repatriated peacefully,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_repatriation_from_Huludao

    And you may be interested in this article,


    On this day in 1941, the Polish government-in-exile in London sent a declaration of war to Japan.

    Curiously, the Japanese politely refused Poland’s offer, suggesting that the proposal was not entirely serious.

    Japanese Prime Minister Hideki Tojo clearly had no intention of taking up the gauntlet, when he remarked: “We do not accept Poland’s challenge. The Poles, fighting for their freedom, only declared war on us under pressure from the United Kingdom.”

    In the late 19th century, Major Yasumas Fukushima travelled through Polish lands on horseback. He reported on his impressions about Poles with particular enthusiasm and was impressed by the Royal Castle and the tragedy of the partitions, as well as the uprisings. Based on his reports the song Memory of Poland was written, which at the beginning of the twentieth century was a huge hit in Japan and aroused sympathy for Poles.
     

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/strangest-war-in-history-seventy-one-years-ago-today-poland-declared-war-on-its-old-friend-japan---and-it-lasted-for-16-years-3723

    If you only rely Western sources like van Wolferen's you are getting a half-baked self-serving picture--shortly after van Wolferen's book, the Japanese asset bubble bursted. Kikkawa Motodada 吉川本川, wrote Defeat in Financial War, about how Japan got its face ripped off by Wall Street.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川本川

    That book has never been translated to English. It was translated only to Chinese with a foreword dedicated to Chinese readers, intending it as a cautionary tale.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Another Polish Perspective

  745. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    I don't have a take on Japanese vs. European steel. But Japanese steel is definitely superior to Chinese steel, even though the latter has an older history. Most of swordsmith know-how were not passed down due to dynastic overthrows.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_sword

    And imitation is the best form of flattery,


    Chinese wodao was developed based on the Japanese sword used by the wokou pirates, a mixed group of Japanese and Chinese who repeatedly looted in the Chinese coast.[2][3] Qi Jiguang (1528-1588 AD), a general of the Ming Dynasty, studied wokou's tactics and Japanese swords to repel wokou pirates.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodao

    *Actually nunchaku is originally based on a Chinese weapon,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-section_staff

    Replies: @A123

    Wikipedia is a highly problematic source that should be avoided as much as possible.

    As an intentional weapon design, nunchucks make no sense. A better explanation is: (1)

    Nunchuck is a variant of a word from the Japanese dialect of Okinawa, nunchaku, which itself may come from a Taiwanese word for a kind of farming tool, neng-cak.

    As farming tool, the construction has much more purpose. It could be slipped through a belt for easy carry. Crushing, squeezing, hammering, and even light threshing are possible applications.
    ___

    Double chain, three section, weapon construction has no combat purpose. And, is highly likely to be a personal hazard.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/nunchucks-word-origin-history

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff, not the Okinawan nunchaku, which may have originated in China not necessarily.

    Wikipedia varies pending on the article and language, I only rely and cite it if:

    - I know it in prior from some other source

    - I've looked up the footnotes and checked it out

    I'm of Chinese background and I regard Japanese wikipedia to be very high quality, although obscure with many untranslated articles,


    ロシア南下政策の最大の目的は、年間を通して凍結することのない「不凍港」の獲得だった。

    The main goal of Russia’s Southern Expansion Policy was to acquire “ice-free ports” that would not freeze throughout the year.
     
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南下政策

    The article goes on to link the earliest precedent of "Southern Expansion Policy" as the War of the Holy League (1683-99) against the Ottomans, to later Russo-Japanese War, Sino-Soviet conflict and the current War in Ukraine. I find it elucidating.

    Replies: @A123

  746. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    disgusting levels of cruelty to animals
     
    Countries with most cruelty to animals in quantitative meaning will be countries with the most factory farm industries. United States of America, South America. In Europe, countries like Poland.

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube. A lot of the sadism to animals is related to an American industry for selling civilians military equipment, nightvision etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAj-YQNhac. Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.


    Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my
     
    There isn't especially distinction of Eastern Asian spiritual tradition and Indian spiritual tradition, as Indian spiritual tradition is the origin of the main religions of East Asian, as Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean spiritual tradition is origin of religions of the West.

    Eastern Asian spiritual traditions are significantly imported from Ancient Indian religion/philosophy while Western spiritual traditions are derivation from the Ancient Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean religion.

    Today, it's like "Apple vs Microsoft" and the product work more with one person's brain, than another, as the traditions have different origin and personality. East Asian religion on average can likely be more attractive for the more cognitive and "cold-blood" personality and Western religion more attractive for the more emotional "hot-blood" personality.

    -

    Eastern tradition is more rational, cognitive, repeatable (attaining spiritual results in consistent way), as it include the Ancient Indian thought culture and methodology.

    Western religion tradition, from desert holymen of Eastern Mediterranean, less cognitive, more extreme and emotional, origin in talking to angels and tribal violence, but also including universalist rejection of the tribal violence. A lot of methodology of the desert holymen has been not used in the recent years, except by some traditions like Carmelites etc. So, Jesus has fasted for 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean Desert, while modern people are claiming to be religious without any experiences like the one which created the religion.

    To understand Eastern religion origin, you will need to be meditating in the forest of India.
    To know the Western religion origin, need to be in the Judean desert or at least the atmosphere of Eastern Mediterranean.

    Islam has some honesty, as everyone has to go to Mecca and understand the culture that designed their user interface etc.


    . How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior
     
    I think the view is they are less disconnected from earlier historical epoch, not more morally universalist in the wider society.

    Anti-cruelty to animals is important part of Eastern spiritual tradition. Buddhist monks are careful to not even injure the insects.

    But there is significant distinction in the Buddhist religion between religious clergy and the ordinary public. So, the behavior of the religious clergy, is often not spreading to the normal people.

    In some historical epochs, Buddhist teachings could be viewed too extreme (like some Christian teaching "turn the other cheek") to be followed by the nonclergy population.

    A Buddhist monk in Vietnam will be careful not to injure a fish, but they won't be saying the Vietnamese peasant has to follow this and not eat fish. Buddhist monk will only ask for food and money from the Vietnamese peasant, not for the Vietnamese peasant to follow their teaching.

    In church fathers of Christianity, developed also significant extent of the distinction between clergy and the normal people, where they teach the normal people something different than what they follow as clergy (rejection in this can be later part motive for Reformation), but those original religious cults in the Middle East generally have less of distinction and all normal people were supposed adopt to teaching. So, in text from Moses or Jesus is not behaving like a Buddhist monk that allows the peasants to follow a less strict teaching. They say everyone has to to follow their teaching.

    Replies: @Sean, @songbird, @AP

    A key concept of Christianity is Purgatory, which entails the efficacy of praying for the dead. The Reformation rejected Purgatory. The Orthodox Church does too.

  747. @Sean
    @songbird

    The best Italian Guardian dog breed is the opposite of black.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/cutestuff/89461788/oddball-the-penguin-protector-dies-at-15-thats-105-in-dog-years

    Replies: @songbird

    Maybe, a distinction for people vs. animals?

    More aggression required to bite a person, and so darker? The line I saw, I think was referring specifically to houses rather than animals. But with predators, might be better to have the dogs seen with their light colors?

    Sometime, last spring, I was in the country and saved a chicken that was in the mouth of a fox. I heard the chicken, and thought to check on it. The fox saw me moving a long way off. Can’t recall what I was wearing. But he had the chicken by the rump and dropped it before he got to the underbrush, probably expecting I would catch up with him, which however I probably stood no chance of doing.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    Sometime, last spring, I was in the country and saved a chicken that was in the mouth of a fox.
     
    I'm surprised how many urban foxes are out there. London apparently has quite a few.

    Speaking of foxes, they 'laugh', believe it or not. A real pick me upper to watch and listen to.

    Here the spoke's fox, Finnegan Fox, for the Save-A-Fox organization laughs for over two minutes. A record! :-D

    https://youtu.be/1Gx_jRfB-Ao



    Bonus clip from Save-A-Fox. Dixiedo Fox steals the proprietors cell phone and tries to bury it. It's pretty amusing. :-)

    https://youtu.be/GegN_AXWWqc
  748. @Ivashka the fool

    I feel you are confusing different concepts of information and confusing also difference between information and the information about something.

     

    I am not discussing concepts, I am discussing the most down to earth definition of information: any pattern of distribution of matter or energy detectable by any receptor. All information matches this definition.


    For DNA, its real existence is some chains of amino acids, the information is the patterns of machine code that it contains and these patterns which has predictable (i.e. the pattern-based) causal relations with the physical world.
     
    DNA is not a machine code, it is the genetic information that is expressed as codons that is the code. DNA is just a biochemical mean of storing information. Think of it as a hard-drive that you can read from or write into.

    But when we talk about the machine code, this is a discussion about the patterns in the chains of relevant chains of protein in the animal and plant cells. This is information in the normal understanding, as something that can be reduced to the digital code.
     
    Any pattern is information if it can be detected. If it cannot be detected, then it is not, but only for the one who attempts the detection. It has nothing to do with it being reducible to digital code. And it has nothing to do with it having or not a "meaning" or a "sense" or a "usefulness". Information is just patterns nothing else. Meaning is interpretation of these patterns, that is even more information, but a pattern being meaningful or useful is not mandatory for it to be information. The subject of information decoding or interpretation is interesting and important, but this is not what I am discussing.

    He had proved a lack of consistency in the formal system (based in axioms). I’m not sure you can say “incomplete of mathematics to express reality” based in this. It’s about incompleteness to axiomatize mathematics.
     
    If you cannot axiomatize a semantic system, then you cannot use this semantic system to give an exhaustive description of an objective Ontological Reality. Mathematics are our best tool for adequately modeling Reality. Admitting that maths are not axiomatic, is basically admitting that we fail at describing Reality in an entirely objective manner. That is what I was referring to. We swim in a sea of information and we have no true knowledge of what it is objectively.

    I don't want to speculate, but the relation between the minds and the animals can possibly be nonidentical relations.

    As we all know, we see mainly a predictable causal relations between the minds and the animals. But this isn’t enough to say they are the same things.
     
    In a world that we cannot describe objectively, all we are left with is speculation. And I have never written that animals and minds are the same thing, quite the opposite actually. Anyway, first one should define what a mind is and what an animal truly is. We go back to the start of the discussion if we attempt doing it. Both are just information. As everything else is...

    It can be trying to make the students of the Zen teacher think to this more universal sense of the mind
     
    Yes, I have mentioned the Tat tvam asi hinduist formula that is a direct reference to the Brahman / Atman relationship.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/tat-tvam-asi

    However, in Buddhadharma, the Dharmadhatu / Dharmakaya/Trikaya relationship is probably even more refined as conceptualizations of the Absolute and its relation to the conventional/provisional reality because they take into account the fact that we cannot objectively discuss these topics and that anything we come with is approximate for a lack of axiomatization of words as semantic units incapable to truly describe Reality.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmak%C4%81ya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine

    Buddhist thinkers have done a lot to understand what we are and where we are. They have worked hard.

    I haven't found a more appropriate metaphysics.

    But in the end it is all just words.

    Which are not axiomatic.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    pattern of distribution of matter or energy All information matches this

    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not “matter or energy” itself is information.

    DNA is not a machine code, it is the genetic information that is expressed as codons that is the code

    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.

    pattern is information if it can be detected. If it cannot be detected, then it is not, but only for the one who attempts the detection. It has nothing to do with it being reducible to digital code.

    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).

    Information is just patterns nothing else. Meaning is interpretation of these patterns, that is even more information, but a pattern being meaningful or useful is not mandatory for it to be information. The subject of information decoding or interpretation is interesting and important,

    This question is one of the most popular interest of the computer scientists and it relates to the extent computer science is a fundamental science. What happens in the physical world is a really a stable behavior and we interpret this as information. For engineers, you can use any stable system to process information and there is a development of computing.

    that maths are not axiomatic, is basically admitting that we fail at describing Reality in an entirely objective manner.

    It’s not admitting mathematics is not often axiomatic or related to objectivity. It was problem for the projects to reduce mathematics to consistent formal system. Historically it could have been interpreted to support the people who believed mathematics is like a science describing things in a real world.

    what a mind is and what an animal truly is. We go back to the start of the discussion if we attempt doing it. Both are just information.

    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.

    What is a mind? I don’t think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn’t have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.

    But in the end it is all just words.

    Which are not axiomatic.

    It’s words based on peoples’ experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It’s not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It’s also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not “matter or energy” itself is information.
     
    Yes, it is the patterns that are important not what they are made of, or what they are based upon. "Matter" and "Energy" are only lexical placeholders for "phenomena" that we perceive using our senses. Our senses are dependent upon biochemical/biophysical receptors. Basically, we perceive "matter & energy" patterns / information and then integrate it and remodel it as "reality". The use of different scientific equipment to increase the scope of information gathered and analyzed when examining the nature of Reality doesn't change the fact that ultimately the "reality" exists in the brain of a sentient being that is witnessing it.


    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.
     
    Yes, I agree that it contains a pattern that once transcribed into RNA is decoded by the ribosomes. It also contains elements regulating its transcription. It is a complex and dynamic program.

    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).
     
    Yes. But I dislike your use of the word "machine". I would prefer using "natural code" instead. Also, let's keep in mind that there might be more subtle levels of information that are not directly detectable through our senses or our scientific equipment and that we would not therefore consider "physical". An example would be different subatomic/quantum interactions. There is recently more information appearing about possible connections between biology and quantum physics. So basically, we cannot rule that there are subtle quantic patterns linked with sentience that might somehow continue after the demise of the "physical" body. Quantum fields "fill the space" in all directions. There is no true Void to be found. We are literally woven from these fields in every subatomic particle of our body. Therefore, in a most literal sense, our being transcends what most people see as "physical matter". "Physical" is also another lexical "placeholder". So is "death".

    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.
     
    Animals are complex dynamic systems of interdependent patterns of "mater" and "energy". This is self-evident. Therefore, animals are information in its most basic sense. There is nothing inherently "physical" to be found anywhere in the whole Cosmos that is independent from information. В начале было Слово and all that.

    What is a mind? I don’t think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn’t have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.
     
    I agree.

    It’s words based on peoples’ experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It’s not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It’s also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.
     
    Yes. And we cannot live without an epistemological representation of the Real. If we let go of words completely we become insane and unfit for survival in society. But we should not make idols out of words (words "Russia" and "Ukraine" come to mind as particularly sinister "idols" that demand human sacrifice).

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.
     
    Yes. And although their hypotheses and theories might be somewhat outdated, they had remarkable insights about the nature of Reality and its interdependence with our perception and cognition.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mind-indian-buddhism/

    Replies: @Dmitry

  749. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    disgusting levels of cruelty to animals
     
    Countries with most cruelty to animals in quantitative meaning will be countries with the most factory farm industries. United States of America, South America. In Europe, countries like Poland.

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube. A lot of the sadism to animals is related to an American industry for selling civilians military equipment, nightvision etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAj-YQNhac. Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.


    Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my
     
    There isn't especially distinction of Eastern Asian spiritual tradition and Indian spiritual tradition, as Indian spiritual tradition is the origin of the main religions of East Asian, as Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean spiritual tradition is origin of religions of the West.

    Eastern Asian spiritual traditions are significantly imported from Ancient Indian religion/philosophy while Western spiritual traditions are derivation from the Ancient Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean religion.

    Today, it's like "Apple vs Microsoft" and the product work more with one person's brain, than another, as the traditions have different origin and personality. East Asian religion on average can likely be more attractive for the more cognitive and "cold-blood" personality and Western religion more attractive for the more emotional "hot-blood" personality.

    -

    Eastern tradition is more rational, cognitive, repeatable (attaining spiritual results in consistent way), as it include the Ancient Indian thought culture and methodology.

    Western religion tradition, from desert holymen of Eastern Mediterranean, less cognitive, more extreme and emotional, origin in talking to angels and tribal violence, but also including universalist rejection of the tribal violence. A lot of methodology of the desert holymen has been not used in the recent years, except by some traditions like Carmelites etc. So, Jesus has fasted for 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean Desert, while modern people are claiming to be religious without any experiences like the one which created the religion.

    To understand Eastern religion origin, you will need to be meditating in the forest of India.
    To know the Western religion origin, need to be in the Judean desert or at least the atmosphere of Eastern Mediterranean.

    Islam has some honesty, as everyone has to go to Mecca and understand the culture that designed their user interface etc.


    . How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior
     
    I think the view is they are less disconnected from earlier historical epoch, not more morally universalist in the wider society.

    Anti-cruelty to animals is important part of Eastern spiritual tradition. Buddhist monks are careful to not even injure the insects.

    But there is significant distinction in the Buddhist religion between religious clergy and the ordinary public. So, the behavior of the religious clergy, is often not spreading to the normal people.

    In some historical epochs, Buddhist teachings could be viewed too extreme (like some Christian teaching "turn the other cheek") to be followed by the nonclergy population.

    A Buddhist monk in Vietnam will be careful not to injure a fish, but they won't be saying the Vietnamese peasant has to follow this and not eat fish. Buddhist monk will only ask for food and money from the Vietnamese peasant, not for the Vietnamese peasant to follow their teaching.

    In church fathers of Christianity, developed also significant extent of the distinction between clergy and the normal people, where they teach the normal people something different than what they follow as clergy (rejection in this can be later part motive for Reformation), but those original religious cults in the Middle East generally have less of distinction and all normal people were supposed adopt to teaching. So, in text from Moses or Jesus is not behaving like a Buddhist monk that allows the peasants to follow a less strict teaching. They say everyone has to to follow their teaching.

    Replies: @Sean, @songbird, @AP

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.

    Please tell us, if you have been to bear shows. I have an insatiable curiosity to know, whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.

    I shall answer my own question: I have encountered bears multiple times in zoos, and in the wild. Once in a trick show, but I think what made the biggest impression on me was going into some special trailer at a fair, and seeing an old lady feed bears peanuts, very up close, through a glass wall.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @songbird


    whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.
     
    Well, if you don't live in a country with primates, bears are the most externally similar animal to humans. It's really like seeing a person, partly because of the training to stand on the feet, but also their faces and expressions are one of the most similar to humans. They are similar so much you can imagine it is a person inside a costume of a bear.

    Hunting bears can be one choice (for example with economic benefits for the farmers), but using their killing for entertainment and choosing unusually painful methods, is not at least externally very different than if you are hunting of humans with those preferences selected.

    Peoples' sadism will be generally more stimulated when killing a more similar animal, than a more different animal, as it's more difficult to interpret emotions from the crab, shrimp or octopus, than when killing of an animal similar to you.

    I would agree with Yevardian that his sympathy for the octopus, can be possibly the more universalist or scientific sympathy, as we don't know if the experience of the mind is not worse for octopus than a bear, or if their mind is sensitive to the situation. It's possible the octopus feels even more pain than the bear, so the moral situation should be careful there.

    Although it's likely less related to sadism in terms of motives. Most of the cultures which like eating living octopuses, will probably believe the octopus don't have a mind (while the current scientific view is more agnostic) and view them more like robots.

    While most nowadays, every nationality will predict dolphins and bears will have very similar minds to humans. Scientifically, it would be very likely e.g. killing dolphins like the below, will create the similar effects for the mind, as killing a group of humans. For example, a nervous system of dolphin is superficially very similar to human's nervous system. So, it's quite an ordinary speculation their minds' experience of the situation will be not better than a human's.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVdfQphU5A4

    Replies: @songbird

  750. @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.
     
    I did not claim to make my comments on Japan as a professional historian, my field isn't Far East. I can speak as just a commenter as everyone else, can't I? There are people here who summon the authority of the Ukrainian Academy Sciences without offering footnotes, too.

    The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,
     
    But still high. I did not say Japan had the highest world suicide rate.

    he Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen
     
    I did not deny the final outcome.

    The IJA’s melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō
     
    You can go with sword against bayonet too. But I specifically remember that Japanese officers had swords - so at least the Dutch sources, and I remember it was a trophy popular among Americans too. I lived for some time in Netherlands, but I am not there anymore, so I can't check it for you. But apparently some Dutch fought some Japanese with blades, and the former bested the latter.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I think Japan is often singled out for suicides due to two factors:

    1) seppuku tradition
    2) finding partners for suicide, popularity of double suicides etc. This somehow twists the Western notion of suicide as the conclusion of a deep personal crisis. If such a crisis exists, for the Western mind it is obvious that it will give you enough strength to die on your own; help is needed to survive, not to die. But in Japan, it is apparently the opposite. I think Sion Sono “Suicide club” was a bit about this phenomenon.
    In Sono other movie, “Himizu”, there is this side character of wannabe murderer who becomes a real murderer after meeting his “soulmate”. This is also bizarre from Western perspective, where being a murderer is usually a lonely occupation.

    To sum up, dying in Japan can sometimes look childish: it is after all children who will always seek a partner to do something “horrible” together.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Another Polish Perspective


    1) seppuku tradition
     
    Kurosawa's samurai-line father used to get mad at his mother (not samurai line) because she would always forget not to arrange the cutlery in a certain way that signaled he should commit seppuku.
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Did you watch that video of the social media guy visiting the Japanese suicide forest**? It was widely seen and controversial in a matter which seemed wild disproportionate. As I recall the consensus was that he was virulently racist @ the Japanese.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjNFGZLJLss&ab_channel=ABCNews

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

    ** In Japan I gather they do not call it the suicide forest

  751. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think Japan is often singled out for suicides due to two factors:

    1) seppuku tradition
    2) finding partners for suicide, popularity of double suicides etc. This somehow twists the Western notion of suicide as the conclusion of a deep personal crisis. If such a crisis exists, for the Western mind it is obvious that it will give you enough strength to die on your own; help is needed to survive, not to die. But in Japan, it is apparently the opposite. I think Sion Sono "Suicide club" was a bit about this phenomenon.
    In Sono other movie, "Himizu", there is this side character of wannabe murderer who becomes a real murderer after meeting his "soulmate". This is also bizarre from Western perspective, where being a murderer is usually a lonely occupation.

    To sum up, dying in Japan can sometimes look childish: it is after all children who will always seek a partner to do something "horrible" together.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    1) seppuku tradition

    Kurosawa’s samurai-line father used to get mad at his mother (not samurai line) because she would always forget not to arrange the cutlery in a certain way that signaled he should commit seppuku.

  752. @Sher Singh
    @Barbarossa

    Yup. Asked a Brahmin & this is what he said:


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1040104857660555284/1076533185762041908/image.png

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    Agreed. My wife and I actually used to be vegetarian before we owned land. Once we had land, animals and hence meat made good practical sense and with the right care, ethical sense. I’m not squeamish or prissy about my animals but I do believe that they deserve respect as such. I also agree with the point that killing animals should not kill a man’s mercy. I’ll freely admit that a part of me deeply regrets having to kill an animal to eat it. The only way to avoid feeling that way is to discount the animals existence.

    Factory farming is still in my mind an abomination against God as it perverts the nature of animals and also the man who would look at an animal as nothing but a biological machine. The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    Without anthropomorphizing, I can say that even older breeds of chickens, not to mention sheep, cows and pigs, have plenty of individual personality. It’s pretty dynamic and interesting to be around.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will. This is at the root of most of the problems of modernity.

    • Agree: HeavilyMarbledSteak
    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.
     
    That actually makes me feel better. That they were too stupid to realize how much their lives sucked.

    The world is a tough place and we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn't work. We should try to be as humane as possible about it and certainly we could do more but I don't think America is Hell for farm animals, for the most part.

    And at least when they die they get a quick, clean death. That's better than animals get in the wild and better than what a lot of humans get.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @Barbarossa

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    I like this comment.

    Do you remember before you had the ability to be this thoughtful? And how you got to this point? Was it definite? Or gradual like normal aging? I feel you've learned a lot in this life and must have grown immensely. You probably don't believe what I'm about to say, but this level of reflective wisdom will follow you into future lifetimes. Even with a genuine feel for animals and their far more limited consciousnesses! I love it.

    I appreciate my above comment is weird.


    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will
     
    Yes, though the ways that human egos try to control are manifold and insidious. Starting within. Even beginning as "I should feel happy now because of X, Y and Z ideology" when the first question the ego should be asking is "how do I feel?" And so the process of reflection can go from there. But I don't think this is something you lack an implicit understanding of, even if I'm not sure your understanding is as yet explicit.

    What do you think?

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    , @A123
    @Barbarossa

    While senseless abuse is a problem. Trying to make things better also entails consequences: (1)


    In some states, like California, egg prices are as high as $7 for a dozen, mainly attributed to a state law which requires egg producers to raise cage-free hens, that went into effect last year and so far, the bird flu has killed 4 million cage-free hens alone keeping supplies low as demand remained high.
     
    How does one find a balance between:

    -- What we would like to accept as a society
    -- Affording that desired outcome
    -- Compelling that result

    Is the right balance being better to milk cows that can last 10+ years -while- not worrying so much about contract KFC chickens that last for weeks?

    Trying to make specific rules for "morality" is admittedly an issue. However, part of society is enforcement. And, without clear rules -- selective & arbitrary enforcement creates dystopian failures.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2023/01/12/why-are-egg-prices-still-so-high-its-not-the-reason-you-think/

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

  753. @AP
    @Dmitry


    Humans after invention of agriculture are behaving in the opposite direction, increasing diversity, outbreeding and with increasing survival rate (a lot of less selection by the environment).
     
    By the natural environment but not by the man-made environment.

    Over 99% of the people in the developed countries today survive to reproduction age.
     
    This is only true for the last 100+ years.

    But there were enormous opportunities for changes in the thousands of years since agriculture, and in the hundreds of years since urbanization and larger towns.

    As I wrote, however, we are certainly not designed to be hunter-gatherers any more, at least not most of us.

    It’s just numeracy. Even if you want to deny there is slower rate of change when the pressure of environment is reduced, the units which can change are maximum 500 (in fertile crescent) vs 8000 generations for human history,
     
    Now multiply the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.

    70,000 years ago there may have only been 10,000 people.

    12,000 years ago there were an estimated 2 million people. One generation 5000 years ago was the equivalent of 200 generations 70,000 years ago, in terms of the odds of a helpful mutation appearing.

    5000 years ago there were 45 million.

    And then consider the radically different environment, that would encourage the spread of mutations that would help in the new environment but that would have been useless in the old one (and so would not spread). People who had the same lifestyle for 10,000 years would not change much during that time, because any mutations would be less likely to be particularly helpful.

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    the 500 generations by population, which enables more mutations.

    Evolutionary pressure is described in terms of the probability chains. Increasing diversity of the genes by expanding the size of the population in the horizontal way, without the evolutionary pressure which accumulates similar mutation across the generations in the vertical way, would not be increasing rate of evolution, as you know with selective breeding examples.

    Selective breeding requires reduction of the genetic diversity according to the selected mutation (modeling of population bottlenecks) and inbreeding of the animals, with the repeated selective pressure on each generation. This increases rate of change and separation of a branch (in the probability meaning) by accumulating similar mutations with each generation.

    It’s less mutations which are lacking supply in the population, but the selection pressure across generations that allows a new branch to form.

    Although it’s interesting to say that increasing population will increase the number of random mutations horizontally, as you know with e.g. coronavirus the cause of the virus evolution is not increasing numbers of mutations, but selection pressure of the immune system and environmen.

    So the combination of greater population and changed environment would promote massive and quick evolutionary changes.

    The mutations return to the wider population, without the population bottlenecks. It means increasing genetic diversity in the population, but without selection pressure it doesn’t accumulate similar mutations.

    In evolution, mutation in the horizontal sense of the single generation, is like beginning of the branch. The development of the branch is when there is a similar pressure for many generations which accumulate many similar mutations.

  754. @songbird
    @S

    You have a point there: dumb as an ox is an expression.

    But this fellow says it is not true, and claims they are as smart as dogs. But he also believes (contra my theory) that the difference between a cow and an ox is only training.
    https://www.wmuk.org/arts-more/2015-06-23/dumb-as-an-ox-think-again

    And further: there was this story about a girl riding a cow in Germany that I was able to recall:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/cow-german-girl-rides-show-jumps

    I could be wrong.

    My idea of a cow is something that will graze at the side of a dead cow because it is too stupid to understand death. (To contrast it with chickens, they may immediately begin pecking to try to eat the dead chicken. this is one of the reasons I consider them monstrous)


    Im not certain, but being that the oxen are cattle themselves, but trained up to respond to simple commands to haul things, I would suspect the differences in intelligence are only marginal.
     
    It is vastly politically incorrect to say, but there are measurable intelligence differences between the average man and woman. Of course, standard disclaimers: I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful. At the middle of the distribution the differences are not so large, but at the upper limit, this has vast implications. The number of female geniuses is vastly fewer than that of male ones.

    Now, that has to be the result of some sort of sexual selection. We might say something like "Women care about intelligence or its fruits, but not men." (which if not perfectly true, certainly has a lot of truth to it.)

    Now, a lot of animals are selectively culled, based on sex. If the male is going under the knife soon - then it stands to reason that the dumber ones will be killed quicker, while the farmer may try to keep the smarter and more useful ones and try to breed them.

    Not considering the sexes, but just the breed, it is really easy to perceive this in herding breeds of dogs. They are just smarter, and the reason is that the dumb dogs could not do it, and aren't part of the genetic pool of sheep dogs, in the same way that the smart ones are. They were killed or given away to non-herders.

    Though I am pretty sure that a lot more female dogs were killed, and female dogs don't seem obviously smarter to me. But perhaps such a thing works easier with males, who can breed many more times?

    Replies: @S

    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow. Hope it never fell on her.

    [MORE]

    About cows understanding death. I recently saw a video of a cow resisting being put down at a slaughterhouse, produced by an animal defense league of some sort. Another video showed cows in a trailer on the way to a slaughterhouse and they were quite agitated. It seems they have some rudimentary understanding of death

    In regards to women and intelligence, yes, there are some differences between the sexes.

    As an aside, I’m reminded how in that movie Quiz Show (IIRC) they had a scene where the winning contestant was getting all these letters from women fans who found it a very attractive feature just how intelligent the guy was, and were throwing themselves at him. That was late 1950’s. No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn’t know it all from what’s promoted in the culture today.

    I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful.

    The best kind…though I’ll still take a stupid girl if they’re at all like a Shirley Manson. 😀

    • Replies: @songbird
    @S


    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow.
     
    Perhaps, horses were only chosen for their speed, and the cow could meet every other requirement for riding nearly as easily. IIRC, AK doesn't have a high opinion about the intelligence of horses.

    No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn’t know it all from what’s promoted in the culture today.
     
    Good point, and I've never really thought of it from that angle. Could be that women are really the target of it all. That killing masculine role models is designed to disaffect them, and get them to desire a strong state.
    ___
    I suspect foxes would be very popular pets, if not for the issues with them not being potty trainable. I have wondered, if there might be a way to solve this with genetic engineering. Try to copy what makes it work in a dog. But not a wolf. Domesticated foxes still can't seem to manage it.

    Replies: @S, @Dmitry

  755. @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Wikipedia is a highly problematic source that should be avoided as much as possible.

    As an intentional weapon design, nunchucks make no sense. A better explanation is: (1)


    Nunchuck is a variant of a word from the Japanese dialect of Okinawa, nunchaku, which itself may come from a Taiwanese word for a kind of farming tool, neng-cak.
     
    As farming tool, the construction has much more purpose. It could be slipped through a belt for easy carry. Crushing, squeezing, hammering, and even light threshing are possible applications.
    ___

    Double chain, three section, weapon construction has no combat purpose. And, is highly likely to be a personal hazard.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwndJvxrMM

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/nunchucks-word-origin-history

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff, not the Okinawan nunchaku, which may have originated in China not necessarily.

    Wikipedia varies pending on the article and language, I only rely and cite it if:

    – I know it in prior from some other source

    – I’ve looked up the footnotes and checked it out

    I’m of Chinese background and I regard Japanese wikipedia to be very high quality, although obscure with many untranslated articles,

    ロシア南下政策の最大の目的は、年間を通して凍結することのない「不凍港」の獲得だった。

    The main goal of Russia’s Southern Expansion Policy was to acquire “ice-free ports” that would not freeze throughout the year.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南下政策

    The article goes on to link the earliest precedent of “Southern Expansion Policy” as the War of the Holy League (1683-99) against the Ottomans, to later Russo-Japanese War, Sino-Soviet conflict and the current War in Ukraine. I find it elucidating.

    • Replies: @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff
     
    Jet Li is arguably one of the top 10 martial arts experts on the planet. Combine that with modern cinematography. Yes. The three-section staff can look good on the silver screen.

     
    https://i0.wp.com/www.martialjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/36_chambers_header_image.jpg
     

    However, historical evidence for use of the three-section staff is thin. There is nothing that supports it as a popular & commonly issued weapon of war. For the weight and manufacturing expenditure, there are more effective options.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  756. @songbird
    @Sean

    Maybe, a distinction for people vs. animals?

    More aggression required to bite a person, and so darker? The line I saw, I think was referring specifically to houses rather than animals. But with predators, might be better to have the dogs seen with their light colors?

    Sometime, last spring, I was in the country and saved a chicken that was in the mouth of a fox. I heard the chicken, and thought to check on it. The fox saw me moving a long way off. Can't recall what I was wearing. But he had the chicken by the rump and dropped it before he got to the underbrush, probably expecting I would catch up with him, which however I probably stood no chance of doing.

    Replies: @S

    Sometime, last spring, I was in the country and saved a chicken that was in the mouth of a fox.

    I’m surprised how many urban foxes are out there. London apparently has quite a few.

    Speaking of foxes, they ‘laugh’, believe it or not. A real pick me upper to watch and listen to.

    Here the spoke’s fox, Finnegan Fox, for the Save-A-Fox organization laughs for over two minutes. A record! 😀

    [MORE]

    Bonus clip from Save-A-Fox. Dixiedo Fox steals the proprietors cell phone and tries to bury it. It’s pretty amusing. 🙂

  757. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity - ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.

    You're asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain :) To "self-overcome" for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you're presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn't exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense - but in a a universe where objective value exists, self-overcoming should only be exercised in pursuit of the genuinely valuable.

    So - which of society's and family's values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world - so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree :)

    As for my "static" self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it - in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I'm not interested in change for the sake of change :)

    As you don't believe in objective value, Laxa, you are ultimately a nihilist who proposes actions not oriented to some higher good, but actions for actions sake - modern "freedom", I suppose :)


    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called “slave morality.”

     

    Here, for once, you are actually correct one level, which I shall address first :)

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient - the seeker after power and wealth thinks finite power and finite - wealth - and all personal accretions that accrue to the individual as distinct from others and the universe are, by definition, finite (not All, only a part) - but finds eventually that his appetite is insatiable and just grows with the feeding, and he remains on a treadmill of unhappiness.

    If he is lucky, it will eventually dawn him that a "part", however big, will never satisfy him. The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less - but that isn't, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a "part".

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak :)

    Now, about the "slave morality" thing - as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.

    Of course, some people use powerlessness as a form of manipulation, revenge, or resentment - not because they identify with the All at all.

    Nietzsche made the mistake of not understanding metaphysics, which he denied were real. He didn't see how one could identify with the All, and believing in a world of disconnected discrete objects, the vision of modernity, he naturally could not see how the obvious human sense of inadequacy - which he so vividly observed and felt - could be satisfied by anything other than personal power at the expense of others (which even he realized, in this scheme, was insatiable. He posted a will to power that is never satisfied).

    So for him, surrendering personal power could only be a move in the game of personal power - when it may actually be the final realization move that takes you out of that game and into the highest level of power, where it no longer resembles itself even :)

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity – ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.

    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.

    That thing you are enduring is the set of shackles you created for yourself.

    You’re asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain 🙂 To “self-overcome” for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.

    No, I am saying that you must be exhausted by all of the abstract bloviating.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you’re presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn’t exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense

    You’ve just made this nonsense up. The point is to let your soul be free. Instead of bloviating it to death.

    So – which of society’s and family’s values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world – so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree

    It isn’t about values or your metaphysics or any of that other neurotic babble. Stop mediating everything you experience through this blather.

    As for my “static” self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it – in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I’m not interested in change for the sake of change 🙂

    Nope, I was telling you this exactly this stuff 1.5 years ago. Literally no growth here. You still think understanding is to be found by removing yourself, via theorising, from actual living.

    As you don’t believe in objective value,

    Of course I do. I see love flow like an electric current through people, animals, things and dimensions. And I believe my own eyes. I just don’t believe that you’re going to create an abstract model in your head that comes within even 0.0001% to describing it, because your head is small and reality and love are big. Basically, you are a being of limited perception and not god and therefore your attempts to ventriloquise god are self-defeating and deluded.

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient

    Nope, that’s how neurotic humans start. Plenty start with different delusions. What’s funniest of course is that your underlying assumptions are that basically you’re a huge brained god as you ventriloquise hom, even though your superficial beliefs are being weak and nothing. The opposite of your mother.

    Your slave morality is your attempt at power, but denying that reality to yourself, by removing yourself from the experience, which is why you need to drink.

    The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less – but that isn’t, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a “part”.

    You’ll never experience spirit while hiding behind metaphysics. Again, why you need spirits to feel balanced.

    Instead, you’re seeking non-existence, which is what the neurotic seeks as a way out of suffering.

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak

    I’m sorry your mum made you live within her narrative for your attachment, but this thing you do, where you pretend your narrative is actually the universe’s and therefore everyone must live within it, is actually the same thing at root – if much less poisonously enforced on others. but of course has a similarly harsh effect on yourself.

    Now, about the “slave morality” thing – as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.

    You misunderstand Nietszche. And yourself.

    Your version of identifying with the All is projecting your narrative onto the All. This is what slave morality is too. Ventriloquising god.

    An act of love and generosity is an honest expression of how you feel, not some dumb metaphysical trick.

    Drop the blather for a bit. Ask yourself how you feel. Experience how you feel and do what is in your heart, if you’re not too much of a neurotic coward. It’ll be fun. Let go and have a bit of faith that actually you’re enough and good person without inflating your ego by ventriloquising god. Experience love. Don’t metaphysic about it.

    As I said, it has been a year and a half since you received this exact advice, so just do it. Be brave and experiment. No whinging or anything else. Just shut up and do. Your ego will survive the experience.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing
     
    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction :) True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and "enemy" to mainstream society and family, but also it's greatest friend and helper, in essence :)

    As for metaphysics, they grow out of experience - so for me, it's quite concrete and based in experience. You've had different experiences than me, so for you, what I say is "abstract".

    Thanks for your advice - I appreciate you taking the time, and I'm sure within your experience it seems valid. We seem to be on different paths, and that's ok.

    In the fullness of time, we'll both end up in the same place :)

    Cheers.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  758. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating. The film Fearless illustrates this--

    - Jet Li starts off by facing off against hugely muscular white fighters, and manages to defeat them by being more skilled, thereby demonstrating the "Chinese cultural superiority over whites."

    But this is actually a "self-own"-- because what if the white fighters learned become as skilled as Jet Li? whilst still being bigger and stronger.

    In real-life whites are stronger in absolute basis (World's Strongest Men), but East Asians are arguably stronger on a pound-for-pound basis (Olympic weightlifting). And David vs. Goliath match-ups you have cases the smaller, more skilled Slavs (Fedor, Cro Cop) beating the hulking East Asian (Hong Man Choi).

    - Jet Li's ultimate rival isn't white, but a Japanese samurai. He duels the samurai's katana with nunchaku and bests him. He only loses because the samurai's associate cheated and poisoned him. Although the samurai himself is portrayed as honorable (and the whole incident a fabrication).

    But in real life nunchaku ヌンチャク is native to Okinawa, not China, and a totally unrealistic battlefield weapon. While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5wmpsW-Yk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4MZlPNU1w

    Replies: @A123, @AP, @LatW

    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating

    It’s not that it’s not entertaining, it’s cool to watch. But it makes one laugh more than feel at awe. What I had in mind in the original post was not really this kind of martial arts movie as the Fearless (it’s well done, but I couldn’t watch this kind of stuff for longer than 3 minutes).

    [MORE]

    What I meant was kung fu movies where they actually fly, defy gravity, etc – such as in Crouching Tiger. It’s entertaining, but it probably won’t inspire major physical attraction in a white woman. In that movie I actually liked the older woman the most, played by Michelle Yeoh. I typically find women fighting each other repulsive and I find older women vs younger women extremely off putting (one should always help a younger woman, not “compete” with her or try to undermind her), but I did enjoy this famous scene quite a bit:

    But see, this just highlights the problem once again – that Asian women are more attractive than Asian men (to get back to your original question). And, yes, I know Asian men are very different, some Mongol men can look really badass and ultra-masculine.

    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

    I’m not an expert on this at all, but according to the Russian Spetsnaz, a katana is just a tool. It can be anything instead of it, a rifle or a survival shovel, it’s about how you use it and the knowledge behind it. But of course you are right – Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    Modern MMA is significantly based on Japanese martial arts, that’s just a fact. But the Japanese themselves not best at it, Slavs, Caucasians, [..] are.

    For Caucasians it’s almost a part of national identity now. And, yes, Eastern Slavs, too, are very into it. There is a whole WN MMA scene out there called the White Rex, the White Tsar (Beliy Tsar). And way back, right after the collapse, all the Russian guys really got into Wushu (they called it “ushu”).

    They also have long rather immaculate traditions of this through the military. Have you heard of the Russian Systema?

    I enjoy watching Ukrainian and Russian spetsnaz videos (even though I probably shouldn’t, it’s not good to lionize violence, although it’s self-defence). These are just demos (they’re not hitting each other all the way):

    Here’s a Ukrainian one, it’s pretty much the same thing (it’s such a shame they are now doing this to each other, ugh! They should’ve all been salvaged), these are such cool performances (almost like dances, so athletic and dynamic, yet so graceful). It’s called рукопашный бой (hand to hand combat or close combat). It might be outdated and old fashioned and it’s not what today’s spetsnaz is about, but it’s just so cool (especially in black uniforms, they almost look like ninjas, except they are not as small and light, but more “grounded” / robust and more filled in but they still do all those high kicks and curls in the air and I love the parts where it’s almost like dancing and where they all do it in a formation).

    Vintage Systema footage (shows how long ago it was developed):

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    The perception of AMWF relationships is very different I feel in Europe vs. Anglo West. If someone like Philipp Rösler grew in America, he's much more likely to be belittled and beset with jokes about eating dogs,

    https://i.postimg.cc/nhSh38bF/5f29080e-0001-0004-0000-000000260795-w948-r1-778-fpx70-04-fpy49-98.webp

    Crouching Tiger

    Again that genre is subtly emasculating-- and part of CCP's game to keep Chinese men docile to rule over. It appears to assign superhuman qualities to wushu, giving Chinese an overinflated cultural ego, when in fact its mostly kata, like this-- I don't know how this would have the slightest appeal to white women, anymore than ping-pong or badminton players



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACSxPTgmPBA

    It's changing now, there was a MMA guy Xu Xiaodong who stumped all the fake martial artists, so guys get, you have train weights and actual grappling and striking skills, like systema

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqzAtS4hmuw

    Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    The Chinese dadao can supposedly at the right angle, break a katana in half, but its a crude broadsword. There had been more refined swords in Chinese history but simply not passed down.

    Because Japan's history is rather like a single Chinese dynasty, so swordsmith techniques get passed down and katana is a ceremonial, decorative, training, dueling, as well as a practical battlefield weapon,

    https://i.postimg.cc/YSfG8n3b/Dadao-3D.jpg

    except they are not as small and light, but more “grounded” / robust

    The gym culture in China is only nascent, but speaking from experience East Asian guys get results from lifting as well as anyone else. I'm a taller gracile version of this 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC8x-cwd4DQ

    Replies: @LatW

  759. @Mr. Hack
    @Yahya

    I enjoy reading all of your posts, but had in mind "An Egyptian Soldier" and "Martyred Armenia" that you mentioned within the previous thread. You have a good writing style that lends itself especially well when reviewing books and films.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Thanks. The first book I mentioned is actually called “Diary Of A Soldier In The Egyptian Military: A Peek Inside The Egyptian Army” by Nubar Aroyan. I doubt it would be of much interest to any non-Egyptian tbh; it has no historical value, I just picked it up randomly.

    Mark Twain wrote an entertaining travel book about his travels throughout the Mediterranean (including Egypt); which I’m sure you’ve heard of:

    I recommend reading that instead. It’s a bit long but well worth it. His sardonic demeanor is quite endearing; travel back then was a bit laborious, especially in less developed areas of the world; so Twain and his companions suffered during their trips in the Middle East. The group traversed throughout the Med from Portugal to Palestine; even making a stop in Odessa where they met the Russian Tsar. The destination they were most excited to visit was Palestine; since even affluent Americans at the time were fairly religious. But Twain was quite unimpressed with the smallness of the place; it dawned on him that the Biblical places he read about as a youth spanned the size of his home state Missouri.

    Another travel book I enjoyed was Samuel Johnson’s trip to the Hebrides in Scotland. I read that quite a few years ago so don’t remember much; but you can’t go wrong with the larger-than-life Johnson; he is always perceptive.

  760. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    Agreed. My wife and I actually used to be vegetarian before we owned land. Once we had land, animals and hence meat made good practical sense and with the right care, ethical sense. I'm not squeamish or prissy about my animals but I do believe that they deserve respect as such. I also agree with the point that killing animals should not kill a man's mercy. I'll freely admit that a part of me deeply regrets having to kill an animal to eat it. The only way to avoid feeling that way is to discount the animals existence.

    Factory farming is still in my mind an abomination against God as it perverts the nature of animals and also the man who would look at an animal as nothing but a biological machine. The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn't have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    Without anthropomorphizing, I can say that even older breeds of chickens, not to mention sheep, cows and pigs, have plenty of individual personality. It's pretty dynamic and interesting to be around.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will. This is at the root of most of the problems of modernity.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    That actually makes me feel better. That they were too stupid to realize how much their lives sucked.

    The world is a tough place and we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn’t work. We should try to be as humane as possible about it and certainly we could do more but I don’t think America is Hell for farm animals, for the most part.

    And at least when they die they get a quick, clean death. That’s better than animals get in the wild and better than what a lot of humans get.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Greasy William

    I agree, but it seems weird to breed living beings to lower their consciousness.

    On the other hand, and to agree with you, sometimes if I feel bored at home I might feel concerned that my dog is bored too, but then I see her, and she is listening to noises, a good girl, on guard duty, and obviously satisfied with her basic lower cosnciousness job. She's in her own struggles and place and it is ok. Obviously the best dog in the world, lol.

    , @AP
    @Greasy William

    Normal farm animals get a better deal than wild animals but factory farming is just pure evil.

    , @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William


    we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn’t work.
     
    I agree that Veganism doesn't work well, but I would disagree with the former. A little meat goes a long way.

    I don't agree that dumbing animals down is any better. It's like solving the problem of human suffering by nuking humanity or solving the problems of rape and abuse by killing all women and replacing them with sex-bots. It doesn't address the nature of the question/ problem. Using your logic is it desirable for a man to live a frictionless/ risk free life as a good unto itself? Were Corona policies prudent and desirable? Corona reaction is just factory farming logic applied to humans.

    Even the dumber animals suffer in confinement operations. I've been around them some and I have a hard time imagining how one could rationalize them as not bad.

    I know not everyone is going do what I do in life but I keep my freezers full and my animals live a pretty great life until they get a .22 in the brain while their nose is in a grain bucket. They don't even know that the lights are out. Again, not everyone is going to pursue my lifestyle, but my point is that our farming system could be far different than it is today and that the status quo is unnecessary and a result of asking the wrong questions.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  761. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    Agreed. My wife and I actually used to be vegetarian before we owned land. Once we had land, animals and hence meat made good practical sense and with the right care, ethical sense. I'm not squeamish or prissy about my animals but I do believe that they deserve respect as such. I also agree with the point that killing animals should not kill a man's mercy. I'll freely admit that a part of me deeply regrets having to kill an animal to eat it. The only way to avoid feeling that way is to discount the animals existence.

    Factory farming is still in my mind an abomination against God as it perverts the nature of animals and also the man who would look at an animal as nothing but a biological machine. The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn't have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    Without anthropomorphizing, I can say that even older breeds of chickens, not to mention sheep, cows and pigs, have plenty of individual personality. It's pretty dynamic and interesting to be around.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will. This is at the root of most of the problems of modernity.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    I like this comment.

    Do you remember before you had the ability to be this thoughtful? And how you got to this point? Was it definite? Or gradual like normal aging? I feel you’ve learned a lot in this life and must have grown immensely. You probably don’t believe what I’m about to say, but this level of reflective wisdom will follow you into future lifetimes. Even with a genuine feel for animals and their far more limited consciousnesses! I love it.

    I appreciate my above comment is weird.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will

    Yes, though the ways that human egos try to control are manifold and insidious. Starting within. Even beginning as “I should feel happy now because of X, Y and Z ideology” when the first question the ego should be asking is “how do I feel?” And so the process of reflection can go from there. But I don’t think this is something you lack an implicit understanding of, even if I’m not sure your understanding is as yet explicit.

    What do you think?

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think that I'm fundamentally the same person that I was as a boy, though naturally things become more refined and explicit over time. At least my wife and kids say I still act like a kid. I have to entertain myself somehow.

    I can't really say that I feel as though I can claim much credit one way or another, as I'm just acting according to my inclinations. To be honest, being callous toward animals or people would probably require some active work on my part!

    I do remember one definite point in my life that you may find interesting grist for psycho-analyzing. I was about 6 and was looking out my bedroom window at a tree and being suddenly struck by it's tree nature and considering it in a way didn't take it for granted. I realized in that instant that prior I had taken the world in a reflexive way. I suppose child psychologists have some name for that stage of development, but that is outside my interest. It was a striking moment though which always stuck with me.

    I actually don't discount the idea of a transmigration of souls/ reincarnation. I think it makes a certain amount of sense though I don't attach much import one way or another. I think it's best to assume that God sorts all that out for the best. Though if I've been/ will be around the block more than once it may just mean that I'm a slow learner!

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  762. @songbird
    @Dmitry


    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.
     
    Please tell us, if you have been to bear shows. I have an insatiable curiosity to know, whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.

    I shall answer my own question: I have encountered bears multiple times in zoos, and in the wild. Once in a trick show, but I think what made the biggest impression on me was going into some special trailer at a fair, and seeing an old lady feed bears peanuts, very up close, through a glass wall.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.

    Well, if you don’t live in a country with primates, bears are the most externally similar animal to humans. It’s really like seeing a person, partly because of the training to stand on the feet, but also their faces and expressions are one of the most similar to humans. They are similar so much you can imagine it is a person inside a costume of a bear.

    Hunting bears can be one choice (for example with economic benefits for the farmers), but using their killing for entertainment and choosing unusually painful methods, is not at least externally very different than if you are hunting of humans with those preferences selected.

    Peoples’ sadism will be generally more stimulated when killing a more similar animal, than a more different animal, as it’s more difficult to interpret emotions from the crab, shrimp or octopus, than when killing of an animal similar to you.

    I would agree with Yevardian that his sympathy for the octopus, can be possibly the more universalist or scientific sympathy, as we don’t know if the experience of the mind is not worse for octopus than a bear, or if their mind is sensitive to the situation. It’s possible the octopus feels even more pain than the bear, so the moral situation should be careful there.

    Although it’s likely less related to sadism in terms of motives. Most of the cultures which like eating living octopuses, will probably believe the octopus don’t have a mind (while the current scientific view is more agnostic) and view them more like robots.

    While most nowadays, every nationality will predict dolphins and bears will have very similar minds to humans. Scientifically, it would be very likely e.g. killing dolphins like the below, will create the similar effects for the mind, as killing a group of humans. For example, a nervous system of dolphin is superficially very similar to human’s nervous system. So, it’s quite an ordinary speculation their minds’ experience of the situation will be not better than a human’s.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Dmitry


    Well, if you don’t live in a country with primates, bears are the most externally similar animal to humans.
     
    The Japanese created this famous video game character called Zangief (Street Fighter franchise):

    Zangief is said to have trained by wrestling polar bears in Siberia, on which he practiced his trademark Screw Piledriver after being picked up by a cyclone while performing a piledriver on a bear. The scars covering his body are said to have been the results of wrestling with bears.
     
    Below, you can see, when he danced alongside with Gorbi, to celebrate the player winning the game:

    https://youtu.be/PL0kSqdBSQg

    He had a small bit in Wreck-It-Ralf, but not without controversy, as he said he was a villain (which he was not.)

    To tell you the truth, I have a bit of bear in my freezer right now. Someone gave it to me, and I can't even remember when. I do not relish eating the stuff. IMO, it is very heavy and greasy, and if someone spices it, you can really taste the spices (which I hate, being by preference a bland eater), but without it improving the taste.
  763. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.
     
    That actually makes me feel better. That they were too stupid to realize how much their lives sucked.

    The world is a tough place and we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn't work. We should try to be as humane as possible about it and certainly we could do more but I don't think America is Hell for farm animals, for the most part.

    And at least when they die they get a quick, clean death. That's better than animals get in the wild and better than what a lot of humans get.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @Barbarossa

    I agree, but it seems weird to breed living beings to lower their consciousness.

    On the other hand, and to agree with you, sometimes if I feel bored at home I might feel concerned that my dog is bored too, but then I see her, and she is listening to noises, a good girl, on guard duty, and obviously satisfied with her basic lower cosnciousness job. She’s in her own struggles and place and it is ok. Obviously the best dog in the world, lol.

  764. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think Japan is often singled out for suicides due to two factors:

    1) seppuku tradition
    2) finding partners for suicide, popularity of double suicides etc. This somehow twists the Western notion of suicide as the conclusion of a deep personal crisis. If such a crisis exists, for the Western mind it is obvious that it will give you enough strength to die on your own; help is needed to survive, not to die. But in Japan, it is apparently the opposite. I think Sion Sono "Suicide club" was a bit about this phenomenon.
    In Sono other movie, "Himizu", there is this side character of wannabe murderer who becomes a real murderer after meeting his "soulmate". This is also bizarre from Western perspective, where being a murderer is usually a lonely occupation.

    To sum up, dying in Japan can sometimes look childish: it is after all children who will always seek a partner to do something "horrible" together.

    Replies: @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Did you watch that video of the social media guy visiting the Japanese suicide forest**? It was widely seen and controversial in a matter which seemed wild disproportionate. As I recall the consensus was that he was virulently racist @ the Japanese.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

    ** In Japan I gather they do not call it the suicide forest

  765. @German_reader
    @AP

    I suppose that means the war and the loss of Donbass has its upside, at least Donbass people won't be able to tarnish Ukraine's good reputation with their loose morals now.

    Replies: @AP, @Dmitry

    There is what can be described as “classical AP”. He posts an informal comment posted by unreliable people* from an internet forum like it is a representative and scientific sample, if it will support one of his favorite themes.

    Here is one of his favorite themes, desire to condemn people from Eastern Ukraine in comparison to people from Western Ukraine. (By the way, AnonfromTN said many times he from a Ukrainian family from Lvov/Lviv).

    I remember an argument where AP was saying Indians are less talented in computer science than Ukrainians. When I asked why he believes this, he said because someone in the Sailer forum has posted that Indians are bad employees.


    * “I found there was once a comment posted by a person in New York who said women in Eastern Alabama have less social responsibility than women in Western Alabama”

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    There is what can be described as “classical AP”. He posts an informal comment posted by unreliable people* from an internet forum like it is a representative and scientific sample
     
    I haven't been able to quickly find a comprehensive survey,* but I have heard the anecdotes from a few sources about this, and I provided them.

    A Moscow-based journalist claimed that Donbas is the main source of prostitutes in Moscow (and everywhere), one of the Unz commenters who claimed to have spent a lot of time there had a similar opinion.

    Here is one of his favorite themes, desire to condemn people from Eastern Ukraine in comparison to people from Western Ukraine. (By the way, AnonfromTN said many times he from a Ukrainian family from Lvov/Lviv).
     
    He said he left Lviv and moved to Donbas when he was 4 or 5 years old. He grew up in Donbas.

    So a guy who grew up in Donbas is often making analogies and jokes involving prostitutes, he does it more than anyone else. Of course he would, given that his region is infamous for them. It's like a Chukchi making snow references.

    * I found a study about sex trafficking that said western Ukrainians are the least recruited, but these are victims of trafficking and not prostitutes:

    https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/203275.pdf
  766. @S
    @songbird

    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow. Hope it never fell on her.



    About cows understanding death. I recently saw a video of a cow resisting being put down at a slaughterhouse, produced by an animal defense league of some sort. Another video showed cows in a trailer on the way to a slaughterhouse and they were quite agitated. It seems they have some rudimentary understanding of death

    In regards to women and intelligence, yes, there are some differences between the sexes.

    As an aside, I'm reminded how in that movie Quiz Show (IIRC) they had a scene where the winning contestant was getting all these letters from women fans who found it a very attractive feature just how intelligent the guy was, and were throwing themselves at him. That was late 1950's. No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn't know it all from what's promoted in the culture today.


    I knew one girl who was almost frighteningly intelligent and still beautiful.
     
    The best kind...though I'll still take a stupid girl if they're at all like a Shirley Manson. :-D

    https://youtu.be/2GhPUAVgHZc

    Replies: @songbird

    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow.

    Perhaps, horses were only chosen for their speed, and the cow could meet every other requirement for riding nearly as easily. IIRC, AK doesn’t have a high opinion about the intelligence of horses.

    No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn’t know it all from what’s promoted in the culture today.

    Good point, and I’ve never really thought of it from that angle. Could be that women are really the target of it all. That killing masculine role models is designed to disaffect them, and get them to desire a strong state.
    ___
    I suspect foxes would be very popular pets, if not for the issues with them not being potty trainable. I have wondered, if there might be a way to solve this with genetic engineering. Try to copy what makes it work in a dog. But not a wolf. Domesticated foxes still can’t seem to manage it.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird

    Foxes are pretty cool. They are more feral than dogs but not as much as wolves and coyotes. And they seem to have good temperaments. They would have to be outdoor pets as they are, as you say, not particularly house trainable.

    , @Dmitry
    @songbird

    I'm sure you know it was an internationally famous scientific project in Novosibirsk in Soviet times. And today the research institute became a business that produces and sells the domesticated foxes to the public for $100. I'm not sure how comfortable the environment can be, as profits from the foxes sale doesn't look like it was re-invested to upgrade asset-stripped foxes' cages.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypuiEOouZ0

  767. @Barbarossa
    @Sher Singh

    Agreed. My wife and I actually used to be vegetarian before we owned land. Once we had land, animals and hence meat made good practical sense and with the right care, ethical sense. I'm not squeamish or prissy about my animals but I do believe that they deserve respect as such. I also agree with the point that killing animals should not kill a man's mercy. I'll freely admit that a part of me deeply regrets having to kill an animal to eat it. The only way to avoid feeling that way is to discount the animals existence.

    Factory farming is still in my mind an abomination against God as it perverts the nature of animals and also the man who would look at an animal as nothing but a biological machine. The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn't have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.

    Without anthropomorphizing, I can say that even older breeds of chickens, not to mention sheep, cows and pigs, have plenty of individual personality. It's pretty dynamic and interesting to be around.

    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will. This is at the root of most of the problems of modernity.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @Leaves No Shadow, @A123

    While senseless abuse is a problem. Trying to make things better also entails consequences: (1)

    In some states, like California, egg prices are as high as $7 for a dozen, mainly attributed to a state law which requires egg producers to raise cage-free hens, that went into effect last year and so far, the bird flu has killed 4 million cage-free hens alone keeping supplies low as demand remained high.

    How does one find a balance between:

    — What we would like to accept as a society
    — Affording that desired outcome
    — Compelling that result

    Is the right balance being better to milk cows that can last 10+ years -while- not worrying so much about contract KFC chickens that last for weeks?

    Trying to make specific rules for “morality” is admittedly an issue. However, part of society is enforcement. And, without clear rules — selective & arbitrary enforcement creates dystopian failures.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2023/01/12/why-are-egg-prices-still-so-high-its-not-the-reason-you-think/

    • Replies: @songbird
    @A123

    Factory stuff may be disturbing on an obvious level, but indoor vs. outdoor has big implications for human pandemics.
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1623527128951054336?s=20

    Replies: @A123

    , @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Part of the issue is that we are talking about laws in a post religious society. This is an area that is better handled by social norms and religions convictions. At least that was traditionally the domain it fell under. Part of the problem is that we have jettisoned that frame of reference for such questions and so it becomes the clunky and arbitrary domain of laws and regulation.

    To me, it is a question of respect for creation and Creator which is understandably inscrutable to many today. God created and is in all life and so it all deserves recognition and respect as such. I eat and I will be eaten.

    As far as social questions go, I'm a firm believer that most of our social ills are due to a glut of easy calories. If food was more expensive perhaps more people would start growing backyard gardens and keeping a couple pigs or a few chickens, like was the case up until a few decades ago. This would be better for them mentally and physically and the new found connection to the real world would cure a lot of progressive obsessions.

    Replies: @A123

  768. @Dmitry
    @songbird


    whether it is close contact which has made you sympathetic to them, or their close evolutionary branching with dogs.
     
    Well, if you don't live in a country with primates, bears are the most externally similar animal to humans. It's really like seeing a person, partly because of the training to stand on the feet, but also their faces and expressions are one of the most similar to humans. They are similar so much you can imagine it is a person inside a costume of a bear.

    Hunting bears can be one choice (for example with economic benefits for the farmers), but using their killing for entertainment and choosing unusually painful methods, is not at least externally very different than if you are hunting of humans with those preferences selected.

    Peoples' sadism will be generally more stimulated when killing a more similar animal, than a more different animal, as it's more difficult to interpret emotions from the crab, shrimp or octopus, than when killing of an animal similar to you.

    I would agree with Yevardian that his sympathy for the octopus, can be possibly the more universalist or scientific sympathy, as we don't know if the experience of the mind is not worse for octopus than a bear, or if their mind is sensitive to the situation. It's possible the octopus feels even more pain than the bear, so the moral situation should be careful there.

    Although it's likely less related to sadism in terms of motives. Most of the cultures which like eating living octopuses, will probably believe the octopus don't have a mind (while the current scientific view is more agnostic) and view them more like robots.

    While most nowadays, every nationality will predict dolphins and bears will have very similar minds to humans. Scientifically, it would be very likely e.g. killing dolphins like the below, will create the similar effects for the mind, as killing a group of humans. For example, a nervous system of dolphin is superficially very similar to human's nervous system. So, it's quite an ordinary speculation their minds' experience of the situation will be not better than a human's.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVdfQphU5A4

    Replies: @songbird

    Well, if you don’t live in a country with primates, bears are the most externally similar animal to humans.

    The Japanese created this famous video game character called Zangief (Street Fighter franchise):

    Zangief is said to have trained by wrestling polar bears in Siberia, on which he practiced his trademark Screw Piledriver after being picked up by a cyclone while performing a piledriver on a bear. The scars covering his body are said to have been the results of wrestling with bears.

    Below, you can see, when he danced alongside with Gorbi, to celebrate the player winning the game:

    [MORE]

    He had a small bit in Wreck-It-Ralf, but not without controversy, as he said he was a villain (which he was not.)

    To tell you the truth, I have a bit of bear in my freezer right now. Someone gave it to me, and I can’t even remember when. I do not relish eating the stuff. IMO, it is very heavy and greasy, and if someone spices it, you can really taste the spices (which I hate, being by preference a bland eater), but without it improving the taste.

  769. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    While senseless abuse is a problem. Trying to make things better also entails consequences: (1)


    In some states, like California, egg prices are as high as $7 for a dozen, mainly attributed to a state law which requires egg producers to raise cage-free hens, that went into effect last year and so far, the bird flu has killed 4 million cage-free hens alone keeping supplies low as demand remained high.
     
    How does one find a balance between:

    -- What we would like to accept as a society
    -- Affording that desired outcome
    -- Compelling that result

    Is the right balance being better to milk cows that can last 10+ years -while- not worrying so much about contract KFC chickens that last for weeks?

    Trying to make specific rules for "morality" is admittedly an issue. However, part of society is enforcement. And, without clear rules -- selective & arbitrary enforcement creates dystopian failures.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2023/01/12/why-are-egg-prices-still-so-high-its-not-the-reason-you-think/

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Factory stuff may be disturbing on an obvious level, but indoor vs. outdoor has big implications for human pandemics.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @A123
    @songbird


    Factory stuff may be disturbing on an obvious level, but indoor vs. outdoor has big implications for human pandemics.
     
    The bourgeoisie CCP can take any situation and make it worse. It makes no sense to build up when building out is better on every objective test.

    What is going to happen when that catches fire and collapses? Or, there is an earthquake?

    At some point the worker proletariat will get rid of the CCP elites. However, I am not willing to prognosticate a time on that.... Other than, not soon.

    PEACE 😇
  770. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff, not the Okinawan nunchaku, which may have originated in China not necessarily.

    Wikipedia varies pending on the article and language, I only rely and cite it if:

    - I know it in prior from some other source

    - I've looked up the footnotes and checked it out

    I'm of Chinese background and I regard Japanese wikipedia to be very high quality, although obscure with many untranslated articles,


    ロシア南下政策の最大の目的は、年間を通して凍結することのない「不凍港」の獲得だった。

    The main goal of Russia’s Southern Expansion Policy was to acquire “ice-free ports” that would not freeze throughout the year.
     
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/南下政策

    The article goes on to link the earliest precedent of "Southern Expansion Policy" as the War of the Holy League (1683-99) against the Ottomans, to later Russo-Japanese War, Sino-Soviet conflict and the current War in Ukraine. I find it elucidating.

    Replies: @A123

    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff

    Jet Li is arguably one of the top 10 martial arts experts on the planet. Combine that with modern cinematography. Yes. The three-section staff can look good on the silver screen.

      

    However, historical evidence for use of the three-section staff is thin. There is nothing that supports it as a popular & commonly issued weapon of war. For the weight and manufacturing expenditure, there are more effective options.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @A123

    Jet Li has made a bunch of "patriotic" films for the CCP. I've recommended to songbird The Founding of a Republic about the Chinese Civil War.

    Except Jet Li was a US citizen at that time. He's now renounced it and became a Singapore citizen.

    It just shows what a fake clown show the US vs. China Cold War II narrative is.

  771. @Greasy William
    @Gerard1234

    I didn't know that there were still Jews in Lvov

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard1234

    Even though it’s Ukraine, number of Jews or people with Jewish roots in Lvov/Lviv will probably be very low.

    There is a Jewish school in Lvov/Lviv with 58 students (numbers like a minischool).
    http://www.ort.org.ua/en/schools-and-centers/lviv/gymnasium-brothers-of-israel-acheinu-lauder/

    You can see Israel doesn’t build a culture centre in Lvov. They build the culture centres in Kharkov, Kiev, Odessa or Moldova.

    For comparison, Kiev and Eastern Ukraine will have large numbers of people with Jewish roots even after Ukraine has been the country with the most immigrants to Israel for the last decade of all countries in the world.

  772. @songbird
    @S


    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow.
     
    Perhaps, horses were only chosen for their speed, and the cow could meet every other requirement for riding nearly as easily. IIRC, AK doesn't have a high opinion about the intelligence of horses.

    No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn’t know it all from what’s promoted in the culture today.
     
    Good point, and I've never really thought of it from that angle. Could be that women are really the target of it all. That killing masculine role models is designed to disaffect them, and get them to desire a strong state.
    ___
    I suspect foxes would be very popular pets, if not for the issues with them not being potty trainable. I have wondered, if there might be a way to solve this with genetic engineering. Try to copy what makes it work in a dog. But not a wolf. Domesticated foxes still can't seem to manage it.

    Replies: @S, @Dmitry

    Foxes are pretty cool. They are more feral than dogs but not as much as wolves and coyotes. And they seem to have good temperaments. They would have to be outdoor pets as they are, as you say, not particularly house trainable.

  773. @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    You should give references for all these statements you make. Since you claim to be a historian.
     
    I did not claim to make my comments on Japan as a professional historian, my field isn't Far East. I can speak as just a commenter as everyone else, can't I? There are people here who summon the authority of the Ukrainian Academy Sciences without offering footnotes, too.

    The suicide rate in Japan is lower than in Russia and America,
     
    But still high. I did not say Japan had the highest world suicide rate.

    he Dutch surrendered with 100,000 prisoners in comparison to the fierce fighting in other simultaneous campaigns of Southern Operation 南方作戦 Nanpō sakusen
     
    I did not deny the final outcome.

    The IJA’s melee weapon of choice was not the katana, but the bayonet. This is maintained as a martial arts discipline, Jūkendō
     
    You can go with sword against bayonet too. But I specifically remember that Japanese officers had swords - so at least the Dutch sources, and I remember it was a trophy popular among Americans too. I lived for some time in Netherlands, but I am not there anymore, so I can't check it for you. But apparently some Dutch fought some Japanese with blades, and the former bested the latter.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context. The Chinese in 1945 unlike the Eastern Europeans vis-a-vie Volkdeutsche, took very few acts of revanchism against Japanese civilians, most of whom were repatriated peacefully,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_repatriation_from_Huludao

    And you may be interested in this article,

    On this day in 1941, the Polish government-in-exile in London sent a declaration of war to Japan.

    Curiously, the Japanese politely refused Poland’s offer, suggesting that the proposal was not entirely serious.

    Japanese Prime Minister Hideki Tojo clearly had no intention of taking up the gauntlet, when he remarked: “We do not accept Poland’s challenge. The Poles, fighting for their freedom, only declared war on us under pressure from the United Kingdom.”

    In the late 19th century, Major Yasumas Fukushima travelled through Polish lands on horseback. He reported on his impressions about Poles with particular enthusiasm and was impressed by the Royal Castle and the tragedy of the partitions, as well as the uprisings. Based on his reports the song Memory of Poland was written, which at the beginning of the twentieth century was a huge hit in Japan and aroused sympathy for Poles.

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/strangest-war-in-history-seventy-one-years-ago-today-poland-declared-war-on-its-old-friend-japan---and-it-lasted-for-16-years-3723

    If you only rely Western sources like van Wolferen’s you are getting a half-baked self-serving picture–shortly after van Wolferen’s book, the Japanese asset bubble bursted. Kikkawa Motodada 吉川本川, wrote Defeat in Financial War, about how Japan got its face ripped off by Wall Street.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川本川

    That book has never been translated to English. It was translated only to Chinese with a foreword dedicated to Chinese readers, intending it as a cautionary tale.

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Correction, the author's name is Kikkawa Motodada 吉川 元忠

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川元忠

    The book is here,

    https://www.amazon.co.jp/マネー敗戦-文春新書-吉川-元忠/dp/4166600028

    The Amazon review via machine translation


    Media Reviews and More
    Another Losing War Behind the Trade Surplus in the "Polarized" World
    On the other side of the "Japan-U.S. trade war" in the 1980s, a parallel "Japan-U.S. money war" was going on. The media was oblivious to this war. The policy makers had no idea of a money strategy in the first place. And Japan lost.
    This is the argument of this book. As an example to support this assertion, the author points out that the huge amount of U.S. government bonds purchased by Japan lost about 70% of its value at the peak of the strong yen in 1995 due to the U.S. government's efforts to weaken the dollar. The author says, "In the extreme, if the U.S. wants to kill the national strength of a country to which it owes debt, it is enough to induce the exchange rate to depreciate the dollar.

    I am somewhat concerned that more and more people will read this book and shortsightedly believe that it is the U.S. that is at fault, that the U.S. has set a trap for the dollar to ruin Japan.

    It is true that Japan seems to have lost the money war. Defeat probably means the outbreak and bursting of the bubble economy, the recession that followed, and the tayloraku of Japan's financial institutions.

    But to blame it all on the U.S. money strategy may be too easy to understand.

    The author is correct in pointing out that the U.S. has a dollar reserve currency strategy. But to achieve this, the U.S. had to maintain free trade and keep its domestic market open.

    Japan's strategy, on the other hand, has consistently been to become an export-oriented country. This is contingent on the U.S. continuing to open its domestic market. In other words, it was a necessary condition for Japan's export-oriented strategy that the U.S. continue to open the U.S. market by adopting a dollar reserve currency strategy.

    And Japan's export strategy has worked too well. The ever-increasing trade deficit with Japan forced the U.S. to choose between dollar devaluation and import restrictions. In order to keep the U.S. from pursuing protectionist trade, Japan cooperated in devaluing the dollar and used the trade surplus it earned to buy U.S. Treasury bonds to help offset the current account deficit in the U.S. In other words, Japan followed an export-oriented strategy. In other words, Japan supported the dollar reserve currency strategy in order to follow its export-oriented strategy. As a result, Japan continues to win "trade wars" to this day.

    The author knows all this, and is probably "polemizing" to make us realize this unfortunate structure and the depravity of the reserve currency nation, the U.S. The book became a bestseller, and his plan succeeded brilliantly. However, it would be unfair to use the marginal loss on U.S. debt holdings due to the falling dollar as an example, without mentioning the marginal gain in Japan's gross domestic product (GDP) and national income, which have nearly tripled when converted to dollar terms.
     
    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I just tried to provide alternative view to the general worship of Japanw prevailing on forum.


    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context.
     
    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like "strange, bizarre, childish", not "cruel, nihilistic".

    Poland has expelled Germans relatively peacefully, and few were even allowed to stay under certain conditions, this is why German emigration from Poland went on until 1970ties. It was in Czechoslovakia where some excesses took place.

    BTW, I am aware of the fact that Poland has a lot of sympathy in Japan. Some Japanese are coming to study not just Chopin music, but also Polish studies (Polonistyka). In fact, it is also the opposite - Japan has been popular in Poland too (however, mostly its pop culture like anime, manga and J-pop, Murakami or Mishima books have never become so popular here like in the West ), even if recently South Korea became the most popular Far East country here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enigma_of_Japanese_Power

    Wolferen's book is primarily about culture and government in Japan, not about economy. I see you didn't read it and still speak about it - this is not strictly correct too.
    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students I once lived in a small student house (20 people) in Amsterdam. I once tried to defend Tibet when talking with them... well, I was told the government simply deals with criminals there, as every gov does.... and for next few weeks one or other of them conveyed to me (did I hear?) some good news of China in the West, like some Chinese minister came to Netherlands and there was no problem with Tibet at all. The intention was probably to convince me that whatever I said in criticism was irrelevant in the broader context.
    This experience made me aware that criticizing Far East to its inhabitants is a serious thing.

    However, you should be aware that this is very different than culture in Poland, where people complain and criticize Poland a lot. I suppose it is a part of general culture of complaining in Poland, which, may be a kind of "sticking together in the disaster of Polish history" but some say, it is done to prevent people from being arrogant - so it would be a reverse of Asian non-complaining culture, which also prevents arrogance... in the end, it may be simply about what majority does, and sticking out is read as arrogance.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

  774. @songbird
    @A123

    Factory stuff may be disturbing on an obvious level, but indoor vs. outdoor has big implications for human pandemics.
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1623527128951054336?s=20

    Replies: @A123

    Factory stuff may be disturbing on an obvious level, but indoor vs. outdoor has big implications for human pandemics.

    The bourgeoisie CCP can take any situation and make it worse. It makes no sense to build up when building out is better on every objective test.

    What is going to happen when that catches fire and collapses? Or, there is an earthquake?

    At some point the worker proletariat will get rid of the CCP elites. However, I am not willing to prognosticate a time on that…. Other than, not soon.

    PEACE 😇

  775. @songbird
    @S


    Cool story about the girl who rides a cow.
     
    Perhaps, horses were only chosen for their speed, and the cow could meet every other requirement for riding nearly as easily. IIRC, AK doesn't have a high opinion about the intelligence of horses.

    No doubt the feature of intelligence in a guy is still appreciated by a good many women, but you wouldn’t know it all from what’s promoted in the culture today.
     
    Good point, and I've never really thought of it from that angle. Could be that women are really the target of it all. That killing masculine role models is designed to disaffect them, and get them to desire a strong state.
    ___
    I suspect foxes would be very popular pets, if not for the issues with them not being potty trainable. I have wondered, if there might be a way to solve this with genetic engineering. Try to copy what makes it work in a dog. But not a wolf. Domesticated foxes still can't seem to manage it.

    Replies: @S, @Dmitry

    I’m sure you know it was an internationally famous scientific project in Novosibirsk in Soviet times. And today the research institute became a business that produces and sells the domesticated foxes to the public for $100. I’m not sure how comfortable the environment can be, as profits from the foxes sale doesn’t look like it was re-invested to upgrade asset-stripped foxes’ cages.

  776. at 1:35, an ethnic Russian (the guys is clearly not Jewish) from Kiev speaks. He said that he had to leave Ukraine due to anti Russian racism. It is said in a matter of fact way without any bitterness so it is unlikely he is making it up.

    The reason I bring this up is just to show that there are reasons that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine may have wanted to be reunited with Russia. Now, you can say that they should have just gone back home but their were 10s of millions of them and they felt like they already were home (it’s obvious that Russians are completely incapable of seeing Ukrainians as a real people or Ukraine as a real state).

    While this war is tragic, I do think it will ultimately prove to be for the best as it will create a firm border between Ukraine and Russia once and for all and re-sort the Ukrainian and Russian populations. Ukraine in particular is going to be much better off not any longer having to deal with a Russian 5th column among their population.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Greasy William


    ethnic Russian (the guys is clearly not Jewish) from Kiev

     

    This is how the native Hebrew accent sounds like. So, he's not a Ukrainian guest worker or even oleh chadash from Ukraine, but typical veteran Israeli that was carried their by their parents, which has lost all connection to their old country.

    between Ukraine and Russia once
     
    In 2014, Ukraine had a civil conflict with national division, in 2022 there is less national division and Russians or Russian-speakers (the difference is just self-identification) in Ukraine are fighting for the Ukrainian military.

    It's more like mafia wars (i.e. between governments in Moscow and Kiev), than ethnic wars.


    and for all and re-sort the Ukrainian and Russian populations.

     

    Most of the Russian cities in Ukraine were being the most bombed cities. For example, Kharkov and Mariupol. Most of the Ukrainian military are Russian-speakers not possible to distinguish from people from Rostov. Most of the people in Azov regiment are Russian-speakers also from Eastern Ukraine.

    with a Russian 5th column among their population
     
    It isn't a "Russian 5th column among their population". In 2014, there was difference of the opinion in terms of the future of the country among the population of Ukraine. Not one or other side was necessarily correct. It was a country with divided opinion, high political instability some interethnic violence. But in 2022 it's a war of the countries.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  777. @Greasy William
    @Gerard1234

    I didn't know that there were still Jews in Lvov

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Gerard1234

    I didn’t that there were still Jews in Lvov

    Always were some there, even in administration jobs during Soviet era. Russia’s richest man is (I think) a Lvov Jew.

    Poles had registration /certificate guaranteeing them a home when they were moved back to Poland from Lvov by Stalin. Jews from the sizeable pre-war population, of course were genocided out of existence in Lvov. Poles and Jews then had their houses given to others – mainly ukronazis.
    So what we have now is a situation that’s fair for Poles, but not fair for Jews – who have Galician Ukronazis squatting in their families homes in Lvov for 80 years.

    Squatter (and maybe parasite) is the accurate terminology for these Ukronazis – who were effectively banned from living and owning in Lvov before Stalin incorporated Galicia into USSR.

    Sex tourism is obviously the main connection by any Westerners of Lvov, but the unresolved property/compensation issue for Jews, plus the scale and infamous sadism murders their families (mainly women and children) were victims of- gives Lvov some extra attention from Jewish diasporas

  778. @Greasy William
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH9ZoNyBHMo

    at 1:35, an ethnic Russian (the guys is clearly not Jewish) from Kiev speaks. He said that he had to leave Ukraine due to anti Russian racism. It is said in a matter of fact way without any bitterness so it is unlikely he is making it up.

    The reason I bring this up is just to show that there are reasons that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine may have wanted to be reunited with Russia. Now, you can say that they should have just gone back home but their were 10s of millions of them and they felt like they already were home (it's obvious that Russians are completely incapable of seeing Ukrainians as a real people or Ukraine as a real state).

    While this war is tragic, I do think it will ultimately prove to be for the best as it will create a firm border between Ukraine and Russia once and for all and re-sort the Ukrainian and Russian populations. Ukraine in particular is going to be much better off not any longer having to deal with a Russian 5th column among their population.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    ethnic Russian (the guys is clearly not Jewish) from Kiev

    This is how the native Hebrew accent sounds like. So, he’s not a Ukrainian guest worker or even oleh chadash from Ukraine, but typical veteran Israeli that was carried their by their parents, which has lost all connection to their old country.

    between Ukraine and Russia once

    In 2014, Ukraine had a civil conflict with national division, in 2022 there is less national division and Russians or Russian-speakers (the difference is just self-identification) in Ukraine are fighting for the Ukrainian military.

    It’s more like mafia wars (i.e. between governments in Moscow and Kiev), than ethnic wars.

    and for all and re-sort the Ukrainian and Russian populations.

    Most of the Russian cities in Ukraine were being the most bombed cities. For example, Kharkov and Mariupol. Most of the Ukrainian military are Russian-speakers not possible to distinguish from people from Rostov. Most of the people in Azov regiment are Russian-speakers also from Eastern Ukraine.

    with a Russian 5th column among their population

    It isn’t a “Russian 5th column among their population”. In 2014, there was difference of the opinion in terms of the future of the country among the population of Ukraine. Not one or other side was necessarily correct. It was a country with divided opinion, high political instability some interethnic violence. But in 2022 it’s a war of the countries.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Dmitry


    But in 2022 it’s just a war of Moscow and Kiev governments.
     
    I wouldn't die for either of those governments

    Replies: @Dmitry

  779. @Dmitry
    @Greasy William


    ethnic Russian (the guys is clearly not Jewish) from Kiev

     

    This is how the native Hebrew accent sounds like. So, he's not a Ukrainian guest worker or even oleh chadash from Ukraine, but typical veteran Israeli that was carried their by their parents, which has lost all connection to their old country.

    between Ukraine and Russia once
     
    In 2014, Ukraine had a civil conflict with national division, in 2022 there is less national division and Russians or Russian-speakers (the difference is just self-identification) in Ukraine are fighting for the Ukrainian military.

    It's more like mafia wars (i.e. between governments in Moscow and Kiev), than ethnic wars.


    and for all and re-sort the Ukrainian and Russian populations.

     

    Most of the Russian cities in Ukraine were being the most bombed cities. For example, Kharkov and Mariupol. Most of the Ukrainian military are Russian-speakers not possible to distinguish from people from Rostov. Most of the people in Azov regiment are Russian-speakers also from Eastern Ukraine.

    with a Russian 5th column among their population
     
    It isn't a "Russian 5th column among their population". In 2014, there was difference of the opinion in terms of the future of the country among the population of Ukraine. Not one or other side was necessarily correct. It was a country with divided opinion, high political instability some interethnic violence. But in 2022 it's a war of the countries.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    But in 2022 it’s just a war of Moscow and Kiev governments.

    I wouldn’t die for either of those governments

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Greasy William

    By the way, I'm still finding the video is a puzzle.

    He talks to the veteran Israeli citizens that are confused by his low level of Hebrew speaking and cannot remember anything outside the Middle East.

    So, why does it say "Russians and Ukrainians" in the title and introduction? He doesn't talk to Russians or Ukrainians. There isn't connection to Russia or Ukraine.

    I guess it is a kind of local propaganda video. It's like he was paid to present there are no Russians or Ukrainians in Israel, but only perfect Hebrew speakers with forgotten connection to the postsoviet space.

    Although, in reality, there are Russians and Ukrainians there, even if the locals find it a bit embarrassing to admit.

    If you talk to most homeless people in Israel, they will be Russian or Ukrainian compatriots. If you go somewhere like Bat Yam, there is a bit of atmosphere of the Russian-speaking community, with about 1/4 of the population. New immigrants (olim chadashim) are not so uncommon. Also there are always a lot of illegal workers from Ukraine which are usually in construction and tourists from Russia. If you are 3am in Israel, half of partying people in the street are some tourists from Moscow wondering why locals go to bed too early.

    An honest reporter, would have talked to the Ukrainian workers in Israel.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  780. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    The problem with all these "physicalist" theories is that they are disproved by Asia.

    Tokyo has an insane availability of the most delicious high calorie foods - Japanese in particular love fried foods - far in excess of even the densest American cities like New York, yet the people are model-thin. Not just not chubby, but model thin, both men and women. New York, while thinner than the rest of country and with little actual obesity, has plenty of overweight people.

    Moreover, Japan uses all the chemical additives we do - in fact, even more, there are multiple food additives banned in the West that Japan widely uses, and their diet is extremely fatty and unhealthy, fried foods, ramen, etc.

    Wagyu - Japanese beef - is famous especially for being significantly fattier than any other beef in the world :) It is the most heavily marbled beef in existence, and it's everywhere - they were even selling skewers of it in the airport.

    The picture is substantially the same in Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, etc. Food paradise, unhealthy diets, skinny people.

    The Japanese are also a nation of alcoholics - people drink a ton there, on a near daily basis, often starting in the afternoon. There are a gazillion bars - generally quite small - everywhere. Even vending machines sell alcohol. Beer is extremely popular..

    At a certain point, we're going to have to admit our "physicalist" theories of obesity have failed - it is something in the mind, picked up from the culture, or some signal in the environment mediated by the mind.

    I notice it myself - I'm fit and thin in NY, but I always lose a few pounds in Asia and acquire that "modelesque" thinness without even trying. Interestingly, in NY I have tremendous "food anxiety" in the sense that I am obsessed with getting organic, healthy, chemical free foods, and I make sure to eat lots of veggies and fruits. In Asia, my food anxiety vanishes and my diet gets significantly worse - fried foods, I forget all about veggies and fruits and barely eat them, and I drop pounds and feel fantastic.

    The mind after all is what mediates information from our environment and controls our emotional and physiological state - it stands to reason that if people are overeating, it's because of some signal in the environment or culture.

    But what?

    I have some theories in embryo about that - it may be Americans are overeating out of a sense of "existential insecurity", a signal in the American environment telling them they are never "enough", and that they must self-aggrandize in order to validate themselves and gain value.

    In Asia, things are chaotic and very active and dynamic, but there is a sort of calmness and contentment one picks up on immediately - returning to America one immediately picks up on a sort of restlessness that is in the air, a sort of discontent.

    I am sure, too, there are social and aesthetic factors as well - and the way that ties into the moral dimension is interesting.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Dmitry

    This is a physicalist explanation but it’s not inconsequential that the average Japan consumes around a 1000 less daily calories than the average American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

    Of course it’s a complicated thing and I don’t discount an emotional/ mental component. America has extremely high levels of stress and anxiety (just look at the rate of psychotropic meds) which could easily contribute to more weight gain.

    Tangentially it would be interesting to know the comparative rates of psych meds in different countries.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    No, I mean I'm quite sure the Japanese eat much less than us, and that's why they're thin. They eat delicious, fatty, chemical additive, "unhealthy", food, but significantly less than us. In that sense "physicalist" explanations are correct.

    But there is some signal in their environment, some signal in their culture, that makes them able to do so - for one, their culture is much more comfortable with "suffering", than ours. They sleep on extremely hard beds too, something I've actually grown to like and incorporated into my life in NY lately :) And they don't have central heating in their homes in winter! Rather, for the most part, some local source of heat that they huddle around, in the surrounding cold.

    So there is a "Spartan" element to their culture that, paradoxically, exists amid an extremely indulgent and luxurious aspect - they are extreme foodies devoted to incredible food but eat extremely little daily, etc, etc. A culture that developed the fattiest steak in the world, but stay super thin through portion controls etc..

    @Dmitry - I deny they eat more veggies :) One of the interesting things about traditional Asian eating is that at least outside of China, it isn't veggie heavy. Average classic Thai dish, for instance, only has a bit of veg.

    The whole eat a ton of veg thing seems to be Western, and modern.

    @songbird - will respond to your comments tomorrow!

  781. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    All that being said, a capacity for bold risk taking is, or can be, a virtue – to discover the great spiritual truths one must be a bold risk taker, one willing to go against family and society.
     
    Depends who you are. That is no longer bold risk-taking for you, but tepid comfort. I'd like to see you take the bold risk of going with society and family on something, and against your static image of yourself.

    In a way, they are sort of inverted spiritual seekers – they are desperate to find that thing that will save them, only they’ve made the basic mistake.
     
    Making you an inverted power seeker, which is just what Nietzsche called "slave morality."

    Maybe this story will help you see things without your prejudices: take the example of an anorexic teenage girl. Is she shrinking to take up no space, or is she basically just aggressively taking up all of the space?

    Imagine the family sat at the dinner table, with the girl, all knowing that she will pretend to eat food and may well be dying in a horrible and depressing way. Is her silence not then deafening? Is anyone thinking about anything else? Does she not totally dominate the room despite supposedly being innocent? And is that not actually precisely why she has found her way to anorexia? It is a megalomaniac power play that the vast majority of people don't have an answer for, and is often revenge against one or both parents, usually the mother.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Wokechoke

    Every Anorexic I’ve met has recently lost a dad or mother or a pet. Loss of weight in extremis can occur after a break up.

    what are you talking about?

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Wokechoke

    What I wrote is true. I'm sorry you've had contact with anorexia, but your understanding of it is extremely superficial, which is not your fault, as it is a shame, rage and vengeance related disease that sufferers do not easily discuss with depth. Also, it is extremely serious and it is not because of a lost pet or a break-up, nor even a parental death.

    5-10% of anorexics die within 10 years after contracting the disease and 18-20% of anorexics will be dead after 20 years. Anorexia nervosa has the highest death rate of any psychiatric illness (including major depression).

    About half of cases are comorbid with Cluster B personality disorders, especially borderline or narcissism. These are the ones that don't tend to improve much, ever, as these personalities are very fixed by nature and so don't tend to grow and change.

    BPD has shown to be present in about 25% of people with anorexia nervosa and 28% of those with bulimia nervosa

    In the other half of cases, you'll find the anorexics have Cluster B parents. Most often a heavily narccisistic and/or borderline and abusive mother. Of course, diagnosing such a woman, with such, is difficult as these type of personalities are extremely manipulative, are the most against therapy and will turn on and demonise anyone who might reveal their personality, which means that many therapists will refuse to work with such people, though obviously come up with some other excuse. Even though, with years of treatment and the strength and courage to work on themselves, they really can improve. Just don't bet on it! Especially your own life.

    Furthermore, what's amazing about these personality disorders is how similar their behaviour is, and how similar their effect on those around them. For example, a narcissistic/BPD mother will often pick her son as "the good child" and her daughter as "the bad child." This makes the mother feel in control and keeps the two children apart and therefore trapped in her narrative. It also usually results in the son being psychologically unaware and his mother's best little boy. He'll base his whole sense of inner goodness around defending her and join in demonising his sister. Bizarrely, a huge percentage of male to female transexuals have this upbringing, at least if they're the type which present at a young age.

    Fifty-three percent of the mothers of boys with GID (transgenderism) compared with only 6% of controls met the diagnosis for Borderline Personality Disorder

    The point being that borderline/narcisistic (and these two Cluster B disorders are extremely similar, if not the same thing, at depth) mothers tend to eat the soul of their best little boy sons. Those sons then can rarely escape as they convince themselves their mother is a beautiful soul who is just misunderstood blah blah blah, while she is destroying them, and transgenderism is a way of them committing internal suicide without leaving, though something they often find irresistible. It is also an odd fantasy of revenge against the mother who is made them a second co-dependent husband.



    My advice to such a son would be to completely block his mother. Realise that everything she told him about other people was a lie designed to control him and put her own evil onto other people. And that he must seek therapy and tell the therapist about his mother's type, as they will understand straight away. The process will feel like dying to him and will likely bring on suicidal ideation. He may not survive. Such is the extremely poisonous control of such a mother. Indeed, most sons in that position will never realise that they are being slowly fed on by their waif-like but actually black widow mother, and never be free and will end up throroughly distorted themselves.

    So, the teenage girl's anorexia following parental death that you mention (the vast majority of anorexia, is first diagnosed in teenage girls as it is when they are first able to individuate and take revenge on their mother) is often at the parental death of the weak, cowardly father who allowed the abusive mother.

    Not because the death really triggers it, but because this type of borderline and narcissistic woman so often has a husband who dies early. There is no scientific explanation for it, but it is well-known. It often seems that, like a spiritual black widow, they somehow kill and feed on their husband.

    What's particularly awful for the family is that normal people cannot possibly understand. The behaviour of someone stuck between neurotic and psychotic coping mechanisms for life is not imagined by most people. However, those who understand really understand. Like Moses Farrow, adopted son of Mia (abusive, borderline and narccisistic) and Woody Allen. Here is his account, that normie journalists unfortunately do not believe, but is certainly true.

    http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html?m=1

  782. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Barbarossa

    The problem with all these "physicalist" theories is that they are disproved by Asia.

    Tokyo has an insane availability of the most delicious high calorie foods - Japanese in particular love fried foods - far in excess of even the densest American cities like New York, yet the people are model-thin. Not just not chubby, but model thin, both men and women. New York, while thinner than the rest of country and with little actual obesity, has plenty of overweight people.

    Moreover, Japan uses all the chemical additives we do - in fact, even more, there are multiple food additives banned in the West that Japan widely uses, and their diet is extremely fatty and unhealthy, fried foods, ramen, etc.

    Wagyu - Japanese beef - is famous especially for being significantly fattier than any other beef in the world :) It is the most heavily marbled beef in existence, and it's everywhere - they were even selling skewers of it in the airport.

    The picture is substantially the same in Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, etc. Food paradise, unhealthy diets, skinny people.

    The Japanese are also a nation of alcoholics - people drink a ton there, on a near daily basis, often starting in the afternoon. There are a gazillion bars - generally quite small - everywhere. Even vending machines sell alcohol. Beer is extremely popular..

    At a certain point, we're going to have to admit our "physicalist" theories of obesity have failed - it is something in the mind, picked up from the culture, or some signal in the environment mediated by the mind.

    I notice it myself - I'm fit and thin in NY, but I always lose a few pounds in Asia and acquire that "modelesque" thinness without even trying. Interestingly, in NY I have tremendous "food anxiety" in the sense that I am obsessed with getting organic, healthy, chemical free foods, and I make sure to eat lots of veggies and fruits. In Asia, my food anxiety vanishes and my diet gets significantly worse - fried foods, I forget all about veggies and fruits and barely eat them, and I drop pounds and feel fantastic.

    The mind after all is what mediates information from our environment and controls our emotional and physiological state - it stands to reason that if people are overeating, it's because of some signal in the environment or culture.

    But what?

    I have some theories in embryo about that - it may be Americans are overeating out of a sense of "existential insecurity", a signal in the American environment telling them they are never "enough", and that they must self-aggrandize in order to validate themselves and gain value.

    In Asia, things are chaotic and very active and dynamic, but there is a sort of calmness and contentment one picks up on immediately - returning to America one immediately picks up on a sort of restlessness that is in the air, a sort of discontent.

    I am sure, too, there are social and aesthetic factors as well - and the way that ties into the moral dimension is interesting.

    Replies: @Barbarossa, @Dmitry

    The size of the plates in the restaurant is a lot smaller than in America and they walk more instead of using only cars . There is also higher consumption of vegetables.

    Even then, with introduction of more Western foods like MacDonald’s, they are beginning to introduce more Western health difficulties.

    They discuss the introduction of the problems in the end of the report (around 13:00).

  783. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context. The Chinese in 1945 unlike the Eastern Europeans vis-a-vie Volkdeutsche, took very few acts of revanchism against Japanese civilians, most of whom were repatriated peacefully,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_repatriation_from_Huludao

    And you may be interested in this article,


    On this day in 1941, the Polish government-in-exile in London sent a declaration of war to Japan.

    Curiously, the Japanese politely refused Poland’s offer, suggesting that the proposal was not entirely serious.

    Japanese Prime Minister Hideki Tojo clearly had no intention of taking up the gauntlet, when he remarked: “We do not accept Poland’s challenge. The Poles, fighting for their freedom, only declared war on us under pressure from the United Kingdom.”

    In the late 19th century, Major Yasumas Fukushima travelled through Polish lands on horseback. He reported on his impressions about Poles with particular enthusiasm and was impressed by the Royal Castle and the tragedy of the partitions, as well as the uprisings. Based on his reports the song Memory of Poland was written, which at the beginning of the twentieth century was a huge hit in Japan and aroused sympathy for Poles.
     

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/strangest-war-in-history-seventy-one-years-ago-today-poland-declared-war-on-its-old-friend-japan---and-it-lasted-for-16-years-3723

    If you only rely Western sources like van Wolferen's you are getting a half-baked self-serving picture--shortly after van Wolferen's book, the Japanese asset bubble bursted. Kikkawa Motodada 吉川本川, wrote Defeat in Financial War, about how Japan got its face ripped off by Wall Street.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川本川

    That book has never been translated to English. It was translated only to Chinese with a foreword dedicated to Chinese readers, intending it as a cautionary tale.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Another Polish Perspective

    Correction, the author’s name is Kikkawa Motodada 吉川 元忠

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川元忠

    The book is here,

    The Amazon review via machine translation

    [MORE]

    Media Reviews and More
    Another Losing War Behind the Trade Surplus in the “Polarized” World
    On the other side of the “Japan-U.S. trade war” in the 1980s, a parallel “Japan-U.S. money war” was going on. The media was oblivious to this war. The policy makers had no idea of a money strategy in the first place. And Japan lost.
    This is the argument of this book. As an example to support this assertion, the author points out that the huge amount of U.S. government bonds purchased by Japan lost about 70% of its value at the peak of the strong yen in 1995 due to the U.S. government’s efforts to weaken the dollar. The author says, “In the extreme, if the U.S. wants to kill the national strength of a country to which it owes debt, it is enough to induce the exchange rate to depreciate the dollar.

    I am somewhat concerned that more and more people will read this book and shortsightedly believe that it is the U.S. that is at fault, that the U.S. has set a trap for the dollar to ruin Japan.

    It is true that Japan seems to have lost the money war. Defeat probably means the outbreak and bursting of the bubble economy, the recession that followed, and the tayloraku of Japan’s financial institutions.

    But to blame it all on the U.S. money strategy may be too easy to understand.

    The author is correct in pointing out that the U.S. has a dollar reserve currency strategy. But to achieve this, the U.S. had to maintain free trade and keep its domestic market open.

    Japan’s strategy, on the other hand, has consistently been to become an export-oriented country. This is contingent on the U.S. continuing to open its domestic market. In other words, it was a necessary condition for Japan’s export-oriented strategy that the U.S. continue to open the U.S. market by adopting a dollar reserve currency strategy.

    And Japan’s export strategy has worked too well. The ever-increasing trade deficit with Japan forced the U.S. to choose between dollar devaluation and import restrictions. In order to keep the U.S. from pursuing protectionist trade, Japan cooperated in devaluing the dollar and used the trade surplus it earned to buy U.S. Treasury bonds to help offset the current account deficit in the U.S. In other words, Japan followed an export-oriented strategy. In other words, Japan supported the dollar reserve currency strategy in order to follow its export-oriented strategy. As a result, Japan continues to win “trade wars” to this day.

    The author knows all this, and is probably “polemizing” to make us realize this unfortunate structure and the depravity of the reserve currency nation, the U.S. The book became a bestseller, and his plan succeeded brilliantly. However, it would be unfair to use the marginal loss on U.S. debt holdings due to the falling dollar as an example, without mentioning the marginal gain in Japan’s gross domestic product (GDP) and national income, which have nearly tripled when converted to dollar terms.

  784. @Greasy William
    @Dmitry


    But in 2022 it’s just a war of Moscow and Kiev governments.
     
    I wouldn't die for either of those governments

    Replies: @Dmitry

    By the way, I’m still finding the video is a puzzle.

    He talks to the veteran Israeli citizens that are confused by his low level of Hebrew speaking and cannot remember anything outside the Middle East.

    So, why does it say “Russians and Ukrainians” in the title and introduction? He doesn’t talk to Russians or Ukrainians. There isn’t connection to Russia or Ukraine.

    I guess it is a kind of local propaganda video. It’s like he was paid to present there are no Russians or Ukrainians in Israel, but only perfect Hebrew speakers with forgotten connection to the postsoviet space.

    Although, in reality, there are Russians and Ukrainians there, even if the locals find it a bit embarrassing to admit.

    If you talk to most homeless people in Israel, they will be Russian or Ukrainian compatriots. If you go somewhere like Bat Yam, there is a bit of atmosphere of the Russian-speaking community, with about 1/4 of the population. New immigrants (olim chadashim) are not so uncommon. Also there are always a lot of illegal workers from Ukraine which are usually in construction and tourists from Russia. If you are 3am in Israel, half of partying people in the street are some tourists from Moscow wondering why locals go to bed too early.

    An honest reporter, would have talked to the Ukrainian workers in Israel.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Dmitry

    It's supposed to be ethnicities of Israel: Polish, German, Russian, Moroccan, Iraqi, Iranian, etc. People with ancestry from those places, not necessarily immigrants from there.

    He was supposed to interview Israelis of Russian Jewish descent but he is such an idiot that one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy. He might as well have started interviewing foreign workers from the Philippines while he was at it.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia so I'm not really sure what you are talking about vis-a-vis him not interviewing immigrants

    Replies: @Dmitry

  785. @Dmitry
    @Greasy William

    By the way, I'm still finding the video is a puzzle.

    He talks to the veteran Israeli citizens that are confused by his low level of Hebrew speaking and cannot remember anything outside the Middle East.

    So, why does it say "Russians and Ukrainians" in the title and introduction? He doesn't talk to Russians or Ukrainians. There isn't connection to Russia or Ukraine.

    I guess it is a kind of local propaganda video. It's like he was paid to present there are no Russians or Ukrainians in Israel, but only perfect Hebrew speakers with forgotten connection to the postsoviet space.

    Although, in reality, there are Russians and Ukrainians there, even if the locals find it a bit embarrassing to admit.

    If you talk to most homeless people in Israel, they will be Russian or Ukrainian compatriots. If you go somewhere like Bat Yam, there is a bit of atmosphere of the Russian-speaking community, with about 1/4 of the population. New immigrants (olim chadashim) are not so uncommon. Also there are always a lot of illegal workers from Ukraine which are usually in construction and tourists from Russia. If you are 3am in Israel, half of partying people in the street are some tourists from Moscow wondering why locals go to bed too early.

    An honest reporter, would have talked to the Ukrainian workers in Israel.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    It’s supposed to be ethnicities of Israel: Polish, German, Russian, Moroccan, Iraqi, Iranian, etc. People with ancestry from those places, not necessarily immigrants from there.

    He was supposed to interview Israelis of Russian Jewish descent but he is such an idiot that one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy. He might as well have started interviewing foreign workers from the Philippines while he was at it.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia so I’m not really sure what you are talking about vis-a-vis him not interviewing immigrants

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Greasy William

    I believe everyone he interviews are the Jewish Israelis, with stereotypical the Jewish bodylanguage and Israeli personality. Their answers for the questions are Israeli stereotype. They are speaking native Hebrew language. But they are not Russian or Ukrainian. Even in terms of the Jewish ethnicity mostly it will be Georgian, Azeri Jews, Central Asian Jews. One of the women was an Egyptian Jew.


    one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy
     
    I don't think there are any non-Jewish people there. They are like a stereotype of the native Israelis. But they not Russians or Ukrainians.

    But perhaps this is the author's intention with the mislabeling, it's not an objective reporter.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia
     
    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians. Those kind of people in Israel won't usually even know Russian grammar, unless their parents hire a tutor.

    -

    It's some kind of propaganda, because Russian and Ukrainian people in Israel are not hidden like freemasons. The country has many thousands of them every year. It's true they are are in the unfashionable and nonglamorous suburbs, but it's a community where many people don't even learn Hebrew.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zkMfTQWm0

    Replies: @Greasy William

  786. @Dmitry
    @German_reader

    There is what can be described as "classical AP". He posts an informal comment posted by unreliable people* from an internet forum like it is a representative and scientific sample, if it will support one of his favorite themes.

    Here is one of his favorite themes, desire to condemn people from Eastern Ukraine in comparison to people from Western Ukraine. (By the way, AnonfromTN said many times he from a Ukrainian family from Lvov/Lviv).

    I remember an argument where AP was saying Indians are less talented in computer science than Ukrainians. When I asked why he believes this, he said because someone in the Sailer forum has posted that Indians are bad employees.

    -
    * "I found there was once a comment posted by a person in New York who said women in Eastern Alabama have less social responsibility than women in Western Alabama"

    Replies: @AP

    There is what can be described as “classical AP”. He posts an informal comment posted by unreliable people* from an internet forum like it is a representative and scientific sample

    I haven’t been able to quickly find a comprehensive survey,* but I have heard the anecdotes from a few sources about this, and I provided them.

    A Moscow-based journalist claimed that Donbas is the main source of prostitutes in Moscow (and everywhere), one of the Unz commenters who claimed to have spent a lot of time there had a similar opinion.

    Here is one of his favorite themes, desire to condemn people from Eastern Ukraine in comparison to people from Western Ukraine. (By the way, AnonfromTN said many times he from a Ukrainian family from Lvov/Lviv).

    He said he left Lviv and moved to Donbas when he was 4 or 5 years old. He grew up in Donbas.

    So a guy who grew up in Donbas is often making analogies and jokes involving prostitutes, he does it more than anyone else. Of course he would, given that his region is infamous for them. It’s like a Chukchi making snow references.

    * I found a study about sex trafficking that said western Ukrainians are the least recruited, but these are victims of trafficking and not prostitutes:

    https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/203275.pdf

  787. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.
     
    That actually makes me feel better. That they were too stupid to realize how much their lives sucked.

    The world is a tough place and we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn't work. We should try to be as humane as possible about it and certainly we could do more but I don't think America is Hell for farm animals, for the most part.

    And at least when they die they get a quick, clean death. That's better than animals get in the wild and better than what a lot of humans get.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @Barbarossa

    Normal farm animals get a better deal than wild animals but factory farming is just pure evil.

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  788. @Dmitry
    @Yevardian


    disgusting levels of cruelty to animals
     
    Countries with most cruelty to animals in quantitative meaning will be countries with the most factory farm industries. United States of America, South America. In Europe, countries like Poland.

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube. A lot of the sadism to animals is related to an American industry for selling civilians military equipment, nightvision etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAj-YQNhac. Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.


    Indian morality at least has one thing going for it after all.
    ‘Eastern Spirituality’ my
     
    There isn't especially distinction of Eastern Asian spiritual tradition and Indian spiritual tradition, as Indian spiritual tradition is the origin of the main religions of East Asian, as Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean spiritual tradition is origin of religions of the West.

    Eastern Asian spiritual traditions are significantly imported from Ancient Indian religion/philosophy while Western spiritual traditions are derivation from the Ancient Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean religion.

    Today, it's like "Apple vs Microsoft" and the product work more with one person's brain, than another, as the traditions have different origin and personality. East Asian religion on average can likely be more attractive for the more cognitive and "cold-blood" personality and Western religion more attractive for the more emotional "hot-blood" personality.

    -

    Eastern tradition is more rational, cognitive, repeatable (attaining spiritual results in consistent way), as it include the Ancient Indian thought culture and methodology.

    Western religion tradition, from desert holymen of Eastern Mediterranean, less cognitive, more extreme and emotional, origin in talking to angels and tribal violence, but also including universalist rejection of the tribal violence. A lot of methodology of the desert holymen has been not used in the recent years, except by some traditions like Carmelites etc. So, Jesus has fasted for 40 days and 40 nights in the Judean Desert, while modern people are claiming to be religious without any experiences like the one which created the religion.

    To understand Eastern religion origin, you will need to be meditating in the forest of India.
    To know the Western religion origin, need to be in the Judean desert or at least the atmosphere of Eastern Mediterranean.

    Islam has some honesty, as everyone has to go to Mecca and understand the culture that designed their user interface etc.


    . How any Westerner can look up to these cultures as morally superior
     
    I think the view is they are less disconnected from earlier historical epoch, not more morally universalist in the wider society.

    Anti-cruelty to animals is important part of Eastern spiritual tradition. Buddhist monks are careful to not even injure the insects.

    But there is significant distinction in the Buddhist religion between religious clergy and the ordinary public. So, the behavior of the religious clergy, is often not spreading to the normal people.

    In some historical epochs, Buddhist teachings could be viewed too extreme (like some Christian teaching "turn the other cheek") to be followed by the nonclergy population.

    A Buddhist monk in Vietnam will be careful not to injure a fish, but they won't be saying the Vietnamese peasant has to follow this and not eat fish. Buddhist monk will only ask for food and money from the Vietnamese peasant, not for the Vietnamese peasant to follow their teaching.

    In church fathers of Christianity, developed also significant extent of the distinction between clergy and the normal people, where they teach the normal people something different than what they follow as clergy (rejection in this can be later part motive for Reformation), but those original religious cults in the Middle East generally have less of distinction and all normal people were supposed adopt to teaching. So, in text from Moses or Jesus is not behaving like a Buddhist monk that allows the peasants to follow a less strict teaching. They say everyone has to to follow their teaching.

    Replies: @Sean, @songbird, @AP

    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.

    Far more Chinese eat dogs (there is apparently the belief that when an animal dies in pain its meat tastes better so they boil them alive or hang them alive and fry them with blowtorches) and engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.

    For example, baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.

    There is a disturbing video of the “art” of eating a live fish that has been flash-cooked so its organs still function and it tries to breath at the table while Chinese diners cut chunks of flesh off it. It takes 1.2 an hour for the fish to die. (see under “more” tag)

    Factor farms are also horrible but American diners aren’t sadists who watch that stuff as they eat.

    Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.

    This is true but it doesn’t have much to do with cruelty.

    Not for the squeamish:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @AP


    eating a live fish
     
    Scientifically, it's nowadays believed fish feel pain and have a mind.

    But historically it's common in many cultures not to believe fish (also crabs, octopus, etc) have a mind or will feel pain.

    This is true also in the Russian fishing culture people will view fish like an impersonal object and add a living one on the hook. It's not exactly sadism, but the view it is an nonconscious object.

    I assume Chinese or Korean diners believe a fish or octopus has no mind. But they want an indicator of how fresh this is.

    In Northern Europe, it's the same with boiling living crawfish. In Southern Europe they are boiling living crabs and lobsters because they believe it's more fresh.

    Likely this should be illegal, because we don't have knowledge about the mental experience of these animals. It's possible they are having a worse experience than historical victims of Ivan Grozny. (
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJg47aZFp8.)

    However, the motive for this behavior with the seafood also is less often sadism, as the animals are too different from us to have what we can understand as expression of pain.


    baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.
     
    It as you expect in a low regulation country that is currently climbing into the second world.

    engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.
     
    Obviously. it's not the average American. But America is the country which produces that kind of YouTube content. You know something dropping the spear on the pig for YouTube, is more likely from America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILDMSeZ_qA. Wild pigs are causing a lot of economic damage for the agriculture business, so there is the nonsadistic motive to hunt them. But they are also intelligent animals quite similar to humans, which allows for the sadistic motivation.

    Replies: @AP

  789. @Greasy William
    @Dmitry

    It's supposed to be ethnicities of Israel: Polish, German, Russian, Moroccan, Iraqi, Iranian, etc. People with ancestry from those places, not necessarily immigrants from there.

    He was supposed to interview Israelis of Russian Jewish descent but he is such an idiot that one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy. He might as well have started interviewing foreign workers from the Philippines while he was at it.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia so I'm not really sure what you are talking about vis-a-vis him not interviewing immigrants

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I believe everyone he interviews are the Jewish Israelis, with stereotypical the Jewish bodylanguage and Israeli personality. Their answers for the questions are Israeli stereotype. They are speaking native Hebrew language. But they are not Russian or Ukrainian. Even in terms of the Jewish ethnicity mostly it will be Georgian, Azeri Jews, Central Asian Jews. One of the women was an Egyptian Jew.

    one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy

    I don’t think there are any non-Jewish people there. They are like a stereotype of the native Israelis. But they not Russians or Ukrainians.

    But perhaps this is the author’s intention with the mislabeling, it’s not an objective reporter.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia

    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians. Those kind of people in Israel won’t usually even know Russian grammar, unless their parents hire a tutor.

    It’s some kind of propaganda, because Russian and Ukrainian people in Israel are not hidden like freemasons. The country has many thousands of them every year. It’s true they are are in the unfashionable and nonglamorous suburbs, but it’s a community where many people don’t even learn Hebrew.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Dmitry

    The guy with the buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli. He clearly says that he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.


    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians.
     
    He wasn't trying to interview Olim. He was trying to interview Israelis who had ancestors that came from Russia/Ukraine.

    The video isn't trying to push an agenda, it's just talking to people in Israel who have some Russian/Ukrainian ancestors. If it was supposed to be about immigrants from Russia, he would have just conducted an interview in a place like Ashkelon where there are plenty of such people.

    The girl at 3:09 says that she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I'm not even sure she's 100% Jewish as she doesn't look like a Russian Jew and she describes herself as an atheist.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  790. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    menagerie of pronouncements
     
    Colorful phrase - I like it. Thought am not sure I would write it into a physical speech.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Mr. Hack

    I just got through watching one of Anthony Bourdain’s travelogues, one where he visits Japan. While thinking about the tastes and smells that he would encounter while in Tokyo, he summed up his feelings by stating that he was anticipating “a psychedelic assault on his senses”. I liked how he phrased this, and it reminded me of your earlier comment about “colorful phrases”. 🙂

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    he was anticipating “a psychedelic assault on his senses”.
     
    I think I am too straight-laced to enjoy a phrase like that.

    @A123
    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places, and I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.

    But it really is frightening to think about. If such places took off, I might suppose that they could quickly be repurposed into mass-scale secret prisons. Perhaps, even ones where people are raised from infancy. That is when I would stop eating pigs, though I enjoy it.

    @Dmitry
    Yes, I have heard of the silver fox experiments, and those cages do look a little bare. Wikipedia article is interesting, but I sometimes wish I could ask a little more about it. Wonder what would have happened trying to do the same thing with dogs, on the same scale, either for longevity or IQ. Oldest dogs live to about 30 or so, which is quite a bit older than the oldest ones I have known. My favorite dog ever (the oldest) only made it to 15.

    I may be a loon but I would have state-financed dog breeding, in my ideal state. And more that that, I would probably try to domesticate some of these other animals.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

  791. @AP
    @Beckow


    So he was a fascist who fought against both Communism and Nazism…he must have been a very confused individual.
     
    Not really. The Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.

    But the problem w Bandera worship is not he himself – he was not very significant and under other circumstances people could freely read into his biography whatever they wish. But in a still sensitive post-WW2 Central-Eastern Europe it was stupid and self-defeating to start his cult.
     
    You have managed to say something I agree with. Is there an eclipse somewhere?

    The result if this undisciplined stupidity of “Banderism” in the modern Ukraine will be that it can’t survive as a monolithic state in its 1991 borders – the pro-Russian “half” of the population can’t stomach Banderism and WW2 revisionists in Galicia.
     
    The war has changed this. Bandera has become popular even in the East.

    There is a joke that Putin managed to do what Galician nationalists have not done in 30 years of independence - convinced Eastern Ukrainians that Bandera was right about Russia.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.

    Wrong example, they did it when Nazis staged a coup and killed the PM. It proves nothing ideologically: both fascists and commies had bloody internal fights.

    Bandera has become popular even in the East

    I doubt that, you put too much weight on temporary emotional statements in the middle of the war by a vocal minority. It simply doesn’t work that way.

    The self-defeating promotion of “Banderism” by Kiev nationalists has antagonized Crimea-Donbas and people in Poland, and Czecho-Slovakia…don’t fool yourself, we know, it is being discussed.

    But the most important impact is on Russia: there is no better way to get Russia united to fight than to wave the red-flag of Nazism in their faces. Bandera reminds them of Hitler, was that really a smart thing to do? Everyone agrees that the only way Kiev could prevail is if Russia pulls back from an all-out war – there are other reasons why they won’t (Nato), but for the population the Ukie promotion of Bandera assured that they will support the war. It would be like US southerners rising up with KKK flags.

    It was more than stupid, it was a catastrophic error. Since it was done while being supervised by the Western handlers there must be a reason. That reason is probably that to rile up the Galicians+ Ukies it was necessary. Or the handlers were clueless and got overrun by the crazed locals. That happens, see Isis.

  792. @Dmitry
    @Greasy William

    I believe everyone he interviews are the Jewish Israelis, with stereotypical the Jewish bodylanguage and Israeli personality. Their answers for the questions are Israeli stereotype. They are speaking native Hebrew language. But they are not Russian or Ukrainian. Even in terms of the Jewish ethnicity mostly it will be Georgian, Azeri Jews, Central Asian Jews. One of the women was an Egyptian Jew.


    one of the people he interviewed turned out to be a non Jewish guy
     
    I don't think there are any non-Jewish people there. They are like a stereotype of the native Israelis. But they not Russians or Ukrainians.

    But perhaps this is the author's intention with the mislabeling, it's not an objective reporter.

    2 of the girls in the video were born in Russia and the girl in yellow seems very connected to Russia
     
    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians. Those kind of people in Israel won't usually even know Russian grammar, unless their parents hire a tutor.

    -

    It's some kind of propaganda, because Russian and Ukrainian people in Israel are not hidden like freemasons. The country has many thousands of them every year. It's true they are are in the unfashionable and nonglamorous suburbs, but it's a community where many people don't even learn Hebrew.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zkMfTQWm0

    Replies: @Greasy William

    The guy with the buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli. He clearly says that he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.

    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians.

    He wasn’t trying to interview Olim. He was trying to interview Israelis who had ancestors that came from Russia/Ukraine.

    The video isn’t trying to push an agenda, it’s just talking to people in Israel who have some Russian/Ukrainian ancestors. If it was supposed to be about immigrants from Russia, he would have just conducted an interview in a place like Ashkelon where there are plenty of such people.

    The girl at 3:09 says that she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I’m not even sure she’s 100% Jewish as she doesn’t look like a Russian Jew and she describes herself as an atheist.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Greasy William


    buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli.
     
    He is definitely Israeli. That is native Hebrew speaking Israeli man, with the stereotypical Israeli personality, way of speaking, intonation. Those people are seen in Israel as almost the same as native-born Israelis as they come to Israel as a child and were in the school there.

    It means parents repatriated with the law of return. This kind of immigration requires Jewish roots to the third generation. Whether they had a halachic status or not is another question in the local culture (it usually depends on the maternal grandmother)


    eft a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.

     

    Euromaidan was in 2014. He immigrated to Israel in 1996. He didn't say "anti-Russian racism". He said there was racism there. But that would be the parents view of 1990s Ukraine.

    he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.
     
    He doesn't say that. He says he has been in Israel since 19 years ago, has zero connection or interest in Ukraine ("shum davar") and "anachnu memishpacha rusit". In Hebrew like in English, there isn't distinction of the word between the language and nationality, unlike in Russian language, so even Georgians in Israel say "anachnu memishpacha rusit" because it can mean "Russian speaking", or even "from anywhere in the postsoviet space".

    she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I’m not even sure she’s 100% Jewish as she doesn’t look like a Russian Jew
     
    This looks like stereotypical Israeli people who are from the Mountain Jewish community or could be Georgian Jewish. They one of the most common people in Israel. They are ethnically looking people from Azerbaijan which is why they have this Caucasian appearance. Although personally I can't distinguish between the people like Mountain Jews from Azerbaijan and the ones which are from Central Asia.

    In Israel, they are very common nationalities and usually more working class (although they are very powerful in Moscow and control the real estate development for some whole areas, in Israel they are just mostly the ordinary working class population).

    She just jokes the only "Russian holiday" which she knows is New Year, which is actually nowadays mainstream in Israel with the young people. They also mistranslate her. She says she is habituated Israeli and not Russian.

    It is an example of stereotypical Jewish Israeli people that speaks the local Hebrew.


    and she describes herself as an atheist.
     
    Judaism originates as a religious cult. But in the way the modern Jews are talking, it's not related to the religious belief (unlike e.g. Christianity). It's based in family documents, as they write the nationality in the identity card. A significant proportion of the Jews in Israel are atheist including most important politicians like Ben Gurion (the first prime minister in Israel).

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  793. @sudden death
    @Not Raul

    Is that guy in background naturally michaeljacksoned or wears some face prosthetic after injury?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    Is that guy in background naturally michaeljacksoned or wears some face prosthetic after injury?

    It looks like Vitiligo.

  794. German_reader says:
    @Leaves No Shadow
    @German_reader

    You point out the request by Ukraine for use of the US cluster munition stocks in order to tut-tut, but, honest question, have you previously even complained once about Russia's actual use of cluster munitions in their invasion of Ukraine until now, and, if not, why not?

    Generally, I'd expect someone who is able to remain even-minded and still listen to and understand both sides, to nonetheless get much more annoyed by the year of use of the "bad" munition, than the request to use the bad munitions after a year of them being used against them.

    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/08/25/growing-civilian-toll-russian-cluster-munition-attacks

    Replies: @German_reader

    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?

    No, because you’re not arguing in good faith anyway, and because your “arguments” are indistinguishable from the propaganda drivel in the msm.
    But one aspect of this crazy request is that it probably means the military situation for Ukraine is pretty bad. The stated goals of Zelensky’s government (total military victory over Russia, including re-conquest of Crimea and Donbass) are probably unachievable anyway, unless they somehow manage to bring about direct NATO intervention (which would have a good chance of destroying Central Europe at least). That’s probably also one purpose of those continually escalating demands for new weapons systems, like fighter jets or cluster munitions.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @German_reader

    Your logic is impeccable. A military seeking more and better weapons must be losing. Because winning militaries would never do that. As for the rest of your nonsense, I thought you might have learned from events proving my predictions all right, even as you dismissed them the same way, and yours all wrong. But learning is hard for the grump.

    , @Wokechoke
    @German_reader

    I don’t know if it’s true but let’s say, every time a soldier in the US military dies the US government collects X Million dollars from death insurance policy on the soldier and the surviving family get a chunk of that distributed over time. The policy underwriter in a hypothetical scenario is banking on very few soldiers getting killed so he keeps getting his fees, but also he depends on the aggression of that military to keep plundering resources globally. It’s a little like Dead Souls. Control the life assurance policy of that military and you’d never want for anything again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhEm4S-4v_U

  795. @AP
    @Dmitry


    In terms of culture of sadism, America (not normal Americans, but the sports hunting Americans) will be winners of this competition, as there is culture of shooting bears with arrows for YouTube.
     
    Far more Chinese eat dogs (there is apparently the belief that when an animal dies in pain its meat tastes better so they boil them alive or hang them alive and fry them with blowtorches) and engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.

    For example, baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.

    There is a disturbing video of the "art" of eating a live fish that has been flash-cooked so its organs still function and it tries to breath at the table while Chinese diners cut chunks of flesh off it. It takes 1.2 an hour for the fish to die. (see under "more" tag)

    Factor farms are also horrible but American diners aren't sadists who watch that stuff as they eat.

    Like American police, the ordinary rednecks in America also often have more advanced military optics than Russian soldiers can dream to use in Ukraine.
     
    This is true but it doesn't have much to do with cruelty.

    Not for the squeamish:



    https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1625387648213712896?s=20

    Replies: @Dmitry

    eating a live fish

    Scientifically, it’s nowadays believed fish feel pain and have a mind.

    But historically it’s common in many cultures not to believe fish (also crabs, octopus, etc) have a mind or will feel pain.

    This is true also in the Russian fishing culture people will view fish like an impersonal object and add a living one on the hook. It’s not exactly sadism, but the view it is an nonconscious object.

    I assume Chinese or Korean diners believe a fish or octopus has no mind. But they want an indicator of how fresh this is.

    In Northern Europe, it’s the same with boiling living crawfish. In Southern Europe they are boiling living crabs and lobsters because they believe it’s more fresh.

    Likely this should be illegal, because we don’t have knowledge about the mental experience of these animals. It’s possible they are having a worse experience than historical victims of Ivan Grozny. (
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJg47aZFp8.)

    However, the motive for this behavior with the seafood also is less often sadism, as the animals are too different from us to have what we can understand as expression of pain.

    baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.

    It as you expect in a low regulation country that is currently climbing into the second world.

    engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.

    Obviously. it’s not the average American. But America is the country which produces that kind of YouTube content. You know something dropping the spear on the pig for YouTube, is more likely from America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILDMSeZ_qA. Wild pigs are causing a lot of economic damage for the agriculture business, so there is the nonsadistic motive to hunt them. But they are also intelligent animals quite similar to humans, which allows for the sadistic motivation.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Dmitry


    I assume Chinese or Korean diners believe a fish or octopus has no mind. But they want an indicator of how fresh this is.
     
    This is very charitable.

    In Northern Europe, it’s the same with boiling living crawfish. In Southern Europe they are boiling living crabs and lobsters because they believe it’s more fresh.

    Likely this should be illegal, because we don’t have knowledge about the mental experience of these animals. It’s possible they are having a worse experience than historical victims of Ivan Grozny
     
    Crustaceans have more primitive nervous systems than even insects. They are not very conscious.

    And yet, I can't imagine myself watching them get boiled alive at my table in front of me before I eat them. There is something wrong with people who would like that.
  796. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    "Nonsense. Many of them sincerely support democracy and such values and overlook Bandera’s fascism and crimes, instead focusing on his anti-imperialism."

    imo not that different from Russians who love Stalin, because they associate him with national greatness.
     
    It's not that different in terms of both peoples not celebrating the evils of Bandera or Stalin and instead focusing on a semi-mythologized image of each man.

    But it's very different in terms of what they celebrate about him.

    Russians who support Stalin for the most part don't support gulags, mass executions, and murdering millions by famine. Indeed, they often deny or minimize that these things were done. They support Stalin out of a mix of nostalgia for the Soviet Union, glorious military victory, that under him they lived in a feared and respected Great Power.

    Ukrainians who support Bandera don't support him because his people murdered 60,000-100,000 Polish civilians and probably around 30,000 Jews or because he was ideologically a fascist. Indeed, they deny of minimize these things. Instead, modern Banderists support him because of his movement's anti-colonial national liberation against foreign imperialists and consider that his struggle made later democracy possible. Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    That both groups mythologize and support odious figures is true (though Stalin was much worse than Bandera).

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Greasy William, @German_reader

    Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.

    But that’s just that, a myth. In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia’s Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it’s just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine. And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity). His own vision for Ukraine also comes across as pretty totalitarian itself, not only would all ethnic enemies have been removed, he also believed in Führerprinzip (apparently even after WW2, when his attitude caused friction with other Ukrainian nationalists – Bandera probably ordered assassinations of some of them) and there would have been no other Ukrainian parties allowed in his state.
    And while Bandera was out of the picture for most of the war, other OUN people collaborated in more direct ways with Germany, in pursuit of their own interests. Shukhevych was part of an anti-partisan unit in Belarus in 1942/43 and presumably involved in atrocities there. OUN-B also infiltrated members into the police force in Volhynia where they aided the Germans in exterminating the Jews and acquired “skills” they would then use for UPA’s anti-Polish campaign. Spinning that as anti-totalitarianism is just Cold War mythology.

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.

    I have my own issues with modern “European values” and wouldn’t counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That’s very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn’t compatible with “European values” at all, in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today’s West like social equality and antiracism).

    • Replies: @AP
    @German_reader


    "Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism."

    But that’s just that, a myth.
     
    Indeed. My point is that the myth is not in opposition to modern European values: he was an anti-colonialist freedom fighter who struggled against the two evil totalitarian systems, a struggle that inspired others decades later, eventually leading to Ukraine's democracy.

    That this is a half-truth (or less than that) that ignores the crimes and the dictatorial ideology doesn't change that.

    In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia’s Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it’s just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine.
     
    Correct. This decision by the Germans (not him) saved enough of Bandera's reputation that he could be salvaged somewhat.

    And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity).
     
    By then it was clear that Germany would lose and was no longer a threat to Ukrainian independence; this was a tactical move driven by the hope that Germany could at least leave a much-weakened USSR.

    I have my own issues with modern “European values” and wouldn’t counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That’s very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn’t compatible with “European values” at all
     
    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN's role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did - but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons). So the myth is compatible.

    in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today’s West like social equality and antiracism
     
    Maybe, but I was comparing the Banderist myth to the Stalin myth specifically.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @German_reader

  797. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @Beckow


    "…According to Russia, Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. Even Zelensky’s government is referred to as a Nazi government….Can you name a single Ukrainian nationalist whom the Russians do not accuse of Nazism?"

    Nonsense, you are projecting. Klichko,
     
    Klitschko, one of the key members of the "Nazi" Maidan?

    Here is Russian media:

    https://ria.ru/20230212/veteran-1851525629.html

    Approvingly quoting a veteran calling Klitschko a traitor to the Motherland and a fascist.

    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3579377.html

    It doesn't matter if Klitschko is half Russian, Nazis come in all ethnicities, it says.

    or that blond maid who was in jail, or Kravchuk
     
    You forgot how the "Nazi" Tymoshenko supposedly said she was going to nuke Russia?

    Kravchuk is dead.

    Even Poroshenko (not sure).
     
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28049565

    "Ukraine: Putin aide brands Poroshenko 'Nazi' ahead of EU deal"

    ::::::::::::

    Yes, every Ukrainian nationalist is a Nazi by Kremlin definition, so de-Nazification means removal of all Ukrainian nationalism from poltics and society. To turn the country (against its will) into a Belarus.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Yes, every Ukrainian nationalist is a Nazi by Kremlin definition, so de-Nazification means removal of all Ukrainian nationalism from poltics and society. To turn the country (against its will) into a Belarus.

    Israel’s Naftali Bennett claims that Russia was willing to drop the “denazification” demand in the negotiations in spring 2022. How much of that is true and if it was a sincere offer, is of course hard to know, but given what has happened since then (not least the annexations which make any deal almost impossible), the possibility should have been explored.

  798. @Barbarossa
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    This is a physicalist explanation but it's not inconsequential that the average Japan consumes around a 1000 less daily calories than the average American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

    Of course it's a complicated thing and I don't discount an emotional/ mental component. America has extremely high levels of stress and anxiety (just look at the rate of psychotropic meds) which could easily contribute to more weight gain.

    Tangentially it would be interesting to know the comparative rates of psych meds in different countries.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    No, I mean I’m quite sure the Japanese eat much less than us, and that’s why they’re thin. They eat delicious, fatty, chemical additive, “unhealthy”, food, but significantly less than us. In that sense “physicalist” explanations are correct.

    But there is some signal in their environment, some signal in their culture, that makes them able to do so – for one, their culture is much more comfortable with “suffering”, than ours. They sleep on extremely hard beds too, something I’ve actually grown to like and incorporated into my life in NY lately 🙂 And they don’t have central heating in their homes in winter! Rather, for the most part, some local source of heat that they huddle around, in the surrounding cold.

    So there is a “Spartan” element to their culture that, paradoxically, exists amid an extremely indulgent and luxurious aspect – they are extreme foodies devoted to incredible food but eat extremely little daily, etc, etc. A culture that developed the fattiest steak in the world, but stay super thin through portion controls etc..

    – I deny they eat more veggies 🙂 One of the interesting things about traditional Asian eating is that at least outside of China, it isn’t veggie heavy. Average classic Thai dish, for instance, only has a bit of veg.

    The whole eat a ton of veg thing seems to be Western, and modern.

    – will respond to your comments tomorrow!

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  799. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context. The Chinese in 1945 unlike the Eastern Europeans vis-a-vie Volkdeutsche, took very few acts of revanchism against Japanese civilians, most of whom were repatriated peacefully,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_repatriation_from_Huludao

    And you may be interested in this article,


    On this day in 1941, the Polish government-in-exile in London sent a declaration of war to Japan.

    Curiously, the Japanese politely refused Poland’s offer, suggesting that the proposal was not entirely serious.

    Japanese Prime Minister Hideki Tojo clearly had no intention of taking up the gauntlet, when he remarked: “We do not accept Poland’s challenge. The Poles, fighting for their freedom, only declared war on us under pressure from the United Kingdom.”

    In the late 19th century, Major Yasumas Fukushima travelled through Polish lands on horseback. He reported on his impressions about Poles with particular enthusiasm and was impressed by the Royal Castle and the tragedy of the partitions, as well as the uprisings. Based on his reports the song Memory of Poland was written, which at the beginning of the twentieth century was a huge hit in Japan and aroused sympathy for Poles.
     

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/strangest-war-in-history-seventy-one-years-ago-today-poland-declared-war-on-its-old-friend-japan---and-it-lasted-for-16-years-3723

    If you only rely Western sources like van Wolferen's you are getting a half-baked self-serving picture--shortly after van Wolferen's book, the Japanese asset bubble bursted. Kikkawa Motodada 吉川本川, wrote Defeat in Financial War, about how Japan got its face ripped off by Wall Street.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/吉川本川

    That book has never been translated to English. It was translated only to Chinese with a foreword dedicated to Chinese readers, intending it as a cautionary tale.

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Another Polish Perspective

    I just tried to provide alternative view to the general worship of Japanw prevailing on forum.

    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context.

    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like “strange, bizarre, childish”, not “cruel, nihilistic”.

    Poland has expelled Germans relatively peacefully, and few were even allowed to stay under certain conditions, this is why German emigration from Poland went on until 1970ties. It was in Czechoslovakia where some excesses took place.

    BTW, I am aware of the fact that Poland has a lot of sympathy in Japan. Some Japanese are coming to study not just Chopin music, but also Polish studies (Polonistyka). In fact, it is also the opposite – Japan has been popular in Poland too (however, mostly its pop culture like anime, manga and J-pop, Murakami or Mishima books have never become so popular here like in the West ), even if recently South Korea became the most popular Far East country here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enigma_of_Japanese_Power

    Wolferen’s book is primarily about culture and government in Japan, not about economy. I see you didn’t read it and still speak about it – this is not strictly correct too.
    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students I once lived in a small student house (20 people) in Amsterdam. I once tried to defend Tibet when talking with them… well, I was told the government simply deals with criminals there, as every gov does…. and for next few weeks one or other of them conveyed to me (did I hear?) some good news of China in the West, like some Chinese minister came to Netherlands and there was no problem with Tibet at all. The intention was probably to convince me that whatever I said in criticism was irrelevant in the broader context.
    This experience made me aware that criticizing Far East to its inhabitants is a serious thing.

    However, you should be aware that this is very different than culture in Poland, where people complain and criticize Poland a lot. I suppose it is a part of general culture of complaining in Poland, which, may be a kind of “sticking together in the disaster of Polish history” but some say, it is done to prevent people from being arrogant – so it would be a reverse of Asian non-complaining culture, which also prevents arrogance… in the end, it may be simply about what majority does, and sticking out is read as arrogance.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I liked "Samurai Fiction" so much that I wrote a review of it. It is a rare movie where its Japanese characters overcome the bounds of their Japanese culture, so to say.

    https://www.imdb.com/review/rw8571914/?ref_=tt_urv

    , @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @Another Polish Perspective


    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like “strange, bizarre, childish”,
     
    I know. I wouldn't bother addressing someone who simply makes crude ignorant statements.

    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students

     

    It's fine if you want dissociate from Czechs and Slovaks in that context. But you are conflating Chinese with Japanese, who are actually farther apart than West Slavs:

    - PRC students can be very nationalist, and they are usually anti-Japan and pro-Russia. Myself being a Japanophile make me very unlikely to be a PRC nationalist

    - I wouldn't defend of PRC colonization of Tibet either. It's not really different than what Japan tried to do in China. And Han Chinese dynasties have never ruled Tibet, only Manchu-Mongol ones have, and those dynasties have been historically been very war-mongering.

    I see you didn’t read it and still speak about it
     
    He doesn't speak and read Japanese. If someone who doesn't speak Polish but claims expertise on Poland and wrote a book in English, something like The Wisdom and Power of Międzymorze, and makes a lot of money off it, you might be annoyed.

    Chinese have a lot of these books about Jews, I think at least some Jews would find those annoying--

    塔木德 : 犹太人的创业与致富圣经 Talmud : The Jewish Bible for Entrepreneurship and Getting Rich

    https://www.amazon.com/%E9%93%AD%E9%89%B4%E7%BB%8F%E5%85%B8%EF%BC%9A%E5%A1%94%E6%9C%A8%E5%BE%B7-%E7%8A%B9%E5%A4%AA%E4%BA%BA%E7%9A%84%E5%88%9B%E4%B8%9A%E4%B8%8E%E8%87%B4%E5%AF%8C%E5%9C%A3%E7%BB%8F-%E5%BC%A0%E8%89%B3%E7%8E%B2/dp/B075N575HQ/ref=asc_df_B075N575HQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532608013133&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=295242744854147934&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004358&hvtargid=pla-1102534796854&psc=1

    犹太人智慧大全集 The Encyclopedia of Jewish Wisdom

    https://www.amazon.com/%E7%8A%B9%E5%A4%AA%E4%BA%BA%E6%99%BA%E6%85%A7%E5%A4%A7%E5%85%A8%E9%9B%86-Chinese-%E8%B5%B5%E5%87%A1%E7%A6%B9-ebook/dp/B0099MU6CW
  800. How much of that is true and if it was a sincere offer, is of course hard to know, but given what has happened since then (not least the annexations which make any deal almost impossible)

    I disagree that a deal is impossible. Assuming the Ukrainian summer offensive fails, US + UK + EU are going to be looking for an agreement. Something like current lines + dropping the sanctions in exchange for Russia releasing a large portion of its confiscated overseas reserves for the rebuilding of Ukraine. Putin won’t accept that, he’ll also demand the rest of Donbas + Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership + Ukrainian demilitarization + Odessa.

    “Demilitarization” is a non starter and so is Odessa. A compromise on demilitarization can be reached via Ukraine agreeing not to introduce Western aircraft and not to purchase or develop any long range missile systems. Odessa is just one of those things that Putin is gonna have to let go, but I’m optimistic on that front. Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership is likely a given.

    Donbas is where it gets tricky. I can’t see Ukraine agreeing to surrender the remainder of the Donbas. But without the Donbas, there is no way that Russia will stop fighting, unless Ukraine’s summer offensive is a success.

    So who knows how much longer this will end up dragging on.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    Putin won’t accept that, he’ll also demand the rest of Donbas + Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership + Ukrainian demilitarization + Odessa.
     
    Such terms would be unacceptable for any Ukrainian government, even one that doesn't contain as many crazies as Zelensky's government seems to do. No Ukrainian government could agree to voluntarily relinquish even more territory, and even accepting the annexations of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia (which don't seem to be rooted in any genuine desire of most pre-war inhabitants to join Russia, it's just about creating a land bridge and buffer for Crimea) is impossible, as is agreeing to "demilitarization" (but according to Bennett Putin might have been willing to drop that demand as well in spring 2022).
    Personally I have no idea how this is going to end. I think it's unlikely that with current levels of Western support Ukraine's coming offensive will be able to threaten or even capture Crimea, and tbh I'm glad about that, because I think such a scenario could easily lead to a direct NATO-Russia confrontation and nuclear war. Beyond that, who knows. It's a disaster in any case.

    @AP

    Not really. The Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.
     
    It's very questionable whether the "Austro-fascists" can be regarded as meaningfully fascist in any way, iirc Stanley Payne in his Fascism book classified them as essentially an authoritarian regime of the type common in 1930s Europe (maybe comparable to Poland). Maybe they could be said to have adopted some fascist-like elements in order to ward off the real fascists, but the basic orientation of the regime was rather conservative and Christian, unlike revolutionary Italian Fascism and Nazism.
    (interestingly enough according to the Bandera book, Bandera himself was fascinated with secret societies and revolutionary movements as a youth, even admiring Lenin to some extent).
  801. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William

    How much of that is true and if it was a sincere offer, is of course hard to know, but given what has happened since then (not least the annexations which make any deal almost impossible)
     
    I disagree that a deal is impossible. Assuming the Ukrainian summer offensive fails, US + UK + EU are going to be looking for an agreement. Something like current lines + dropping the sanctions in exchange for Russia releasing a large portion of its confiscated overseas reserves for the rebuilding of Ukraine. Putin won't accept that, he'll also demand the rest of Donbas + Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership + Ukrainian demilitarization + Odessa.

    "Demilitarization" is a non starter and so is Odessa. A compromise on demilitarization can be reached via Ukraine agreeing not to introduce Western aircraft and not to purchase or develop any long range missile systems. Odessa is just one of those things that Putin is gonna have to let go, but I'm optimistic on that front. Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership is likely a given.

    Donbas is where it gets tricky. I can't see Ukraine agreeing to surrender the remainder of the Donbas. But without the Donbas, there is no way that Russia will stop fighting, unless Ukraine's summer offensive is a success.

    So who knows how much longer this will end up dragging on.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Putin won’t accept that, he’ll also demand the rest of Donbas + Ukrainian renunciation of EU/NATO membership + Ukrainian demilitarization + Odessa.

    Such terms would be unacceptable for any Ukrainian government, even one that doesn’t contain as many crazies as Zelensky’s government seems to do. No Ukrainian government could agree to voluntarily relinquish even more territory, and even accepting the annexations of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia (which don’t seem to be rooted in any genuine desire of most pre-war inhabitants to join Russia, it’s just about creating a land bridge and buffer for Crimea) is impossible, as is agreeing to “demilitarization” (but according to Bennett Putin might have been willing to drop that demand as well in spring 2022).
    Personally I have no idea how this is going to end. I think it’s unlikely that with current levels of Western support Ukraine’s coming offensive will be able to threaten or even capture Crimea, and tbh I’m glad about that, because I think such a scenario could easily lead to a direct NATO-Russia confrontation and nuclear war. Beyond that, who knows. It’s a disaster in any case.

    Not really. The Austro-fascists executed hundreds of Nazis.

    It’s very questionable whether the “Austro-fascists” can be regarded as meaningfully fascist in any way, iirc Stanley Payne in his Fascism book classified them as essentially an authoritarian regime of the type common in 1930s Europe (maybe comparable to Poland). Maybe they could be said to have adopted some fascist-like elements in order to ward off the real fascists, but the basic orientation of the regime was rather conservative and Christian, unlike revolutionary Italian Fascism and Nazism.
    (interestingly enough according to the Bandera book, Bandera himself was fascinated with secret societies and revolutionary movements as a youth, even admiring Lenin to some extent).

    • Thanks: AP
  802. @Greasy William
    @Dmitry

    The guy with the buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli. He clearly says that he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.


    They are not what called olim or what you would consider Russians.
     
    He wasn't trying to interview Olim. He was trying to interview Israelis who had ancestors that came from Russia/Ukraine.

    The video isn't trying to push an agenda, it's just talking to people in Israel who have some Russian/Ukrainian ancestors. If it was supposed to be about immigrants from Russia, he would have just conducted an interview in a place like Ashkelon where there are plenty of such people.

    The girl at 3:09 says that she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I'm not even sure she's 100% Jewish as she doesn't look like a Russian Jew and she describes herself as an atheist.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli.

    He is definitely Israeli. That is native Hebrew speaking Israeli man, with the stereotypical Israeli personality, way of speaking, intonation. Those people are seen in Israel as almost the same as native-born Israelis as they come to Israel as a child and were in the school there.

    It means parents repatriated with the law of return. This kind of immigration requires Jewish roots to the third generation. Whether they had a halachic status or not is another question in the local culture (it usually depends on the maternal grandmother)

    eft a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.

    Euromaidan was in 2014. He immigrated to Israel in 1996. He didn’t say “anti-Russian racism”. He said there was racism there. But that would be the parents view of 1990s Ukraine.

    he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.

    He doesn’t say that. He says he has been in Israel since 19 years ago, has zero connection or interest in Ukraine (“shum davar”) and “anachnu memishpacha rusit”. In Hebrew like in English, there isn’t distinction of the word between the language and nationality, unlike in Russian language, so even Georgians in Israel say “anachnu memishpacha rusit” because it can mean “Russian speaking”, or even “from anywhere in the postsoviet space”.

    she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I’m not even sure she’s 100% Jewish as she doesn’t look like a Russian Jew

    This looks like stereotypical Israeli people who are from the Mountain Jewish community or could be Georgian Jewish. They one of the most common people in Israel. They are ethnically looking people from Azerbaijan which is why they have this Caucasian appearance. Although personally I can’t distinguish between the people like Mountain Jews from Azerbaijan and the ones which are from Central Asia.

    In Israel, they are very common nationalities and usually more working class (although they are very powerful in Moscow and control the real estate development for some whole areas, in Israel they are just mostly the ordinary working class population).

    She just jokes the only “Russian holiday” which she knows is New Year, which is actually nowadays mainstream in Israel with the young people. They also mistranslate her. She says she is habituated Israeli and not Russian.

    It is an example of stereotypical Jewish Israeli people that speaks the local Hebrew.

    and she describes herself as an atheist.

    Judaism originates as a religious cult. But in the way the modern Jews are talking, it’s not related to the religious belief (unlike e.g. Christianity). It’s based in family documents, as they write the nationality in the identity card. A significant proportion of the Jews in Israel are atheist including most important politicians like Ben Gurion (the first prime minister in Israel).

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Dmitry

    Buzz cut dude speaks in slight but unmistakable Russian-accented Hebrew.

  803. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    There is no point to continue to endure the discomfort of going against family and friends in perpetuity – ideally, you become comfortable with your new identity and status as outsider.
     
    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing.

    The virtue lies in being capable of enduring this discomfort in order to reach something of higher worth and free yourself from shackles.
     
    That thing you are enduring is the set of shackles you created for yourself.

    You’re asking me to now endure pain just to demonstrate that I can endure pain 🙂 To “self-overcome” for the point of self-overcoming. To go along with society without considering whether that represents the highest value.
     
    No, I am saying that you must be exhausted by all of the abstract bloviating.

    In a Nietzschean universe (and this idea you’re presenting originated with him) where objective value doesn’t exist, self-overcoming as a mere demonstration of power and capacity to endure pain may make sense
     
    You've just made this nonsense up. The point is to let your soul be free. Instead of bloviating it to death.

    So – which of society’s and family’s values should I abandon my own position to go with? To do it just for the sake of doing it is pointless in a non-Nietszchean world – so please demonstrate which objective value society and family represent that I reject, and I shall see if I agree
     
    It isn't about values or your metaphysics or any of that other neurotic babble. Stop mediating everything you experience through this blather.

    As for my “static” self image, here again you are proposing Nietzschean dynamic change for the sake of it – in fact, my self image changes all the time, but in a continuous line of development, towards greater objective value as I increasingly understand it, and I continue to study and deepen my understanding of this all the time. I’m not interested in change for the sake of change 🙂
     
    Nope, I was telling you this exactly this stuff 1.5 years ago. Literally no growth here. You still think understanding is to be found by removing yourself, via theorising, from actual living.

    As you don’t believe in objective value,
     
    Of course I do. I see love flow like an electric current through people, animals, things and dimensions. And I believe my own eyes. I just don't believe that you're going to create an abstract model in your head that comes within even 0.0001% to describing it, because your head is small and reality and love are big. Basically, you are a being of limited perception and not god and therefore your attempts to ventriloquise god are self-defeating and deluded.

    We humans all start from the feeling of being weak, inadequate, insufficient
     
    Nope, that's how neurotic humans start. Plenty start with different delusions. What's funniest of course is that your underlying assumptions are that basically you're a huge brained god as you ventriloquise hom, even though your superficial beliefs are being weak and nothing. The opposite of your mother.

    Your slave morality is your attempt at power, but denying that reality to yourself, by removing yourself from the experience, which is why you need to drink.

    The spiritual seeker wants the power of the whole universe, nothing less – but that isn’t, then, personal power, as personal power can only ever be a “part”.
     
    You'll never experience spirit while hiding behind metaphysics. Again, why you need spirits to feel balanced.

    Instead, you're seeking non-existence, which is what the neurotic seeks as a way out of suffering.

    That is why every spiritual tradition says give up personal power, and Christianity says God intentionally became personally weak
     
    I'm sorry your mum made you live within her narrative for your attachment, but this thing you do, where you pretend your narrative is actually the universe's and therefore everyone must live within it, is actually the same thing at root - if much less poisonously enforced on others. but of course has a similarly harsh effect on yourself.

    Now, about the “slave morality” thing – as seen from my above description, surrendering personal power through an identification with the All is an act of love and generosity.
     
    You misunderstand Nietszche. And yourself.

    Your version of identifying with the All is projecting your narrative onto the All. This is what slave morality is too. Ventriloquising god.

    An act of love and generosity is an honest expression of how you feel, not some dumb metaphysical trick.

    Drop the blather for a bit. Ask yourself how you feel. Experience how you feel and do what is in your heart, if you're not too much of a neurotic coward. It'll be fun. Let go and have a bit of faith that actually you're enough and good person without inflating your ego by ventriloquising god. Experience love. Don't metaphysic about it.

    As I said, it has been a year and a half since you received this exact advice, so just do it. Be brave and experiment. No whinging or anything else. Just shut up and do. Your ego will survive the experience.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing

    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction 🙂 True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and “enemy” to mainstream society and family, but also it’s greatest friend and helper, in essence 🙂

    As for metaphysics, they grow out of experience – so for me, it’s quite concrete and based in experience. You’ve had different experiences than me, so for you, what I say is “abstract”.

    Thanks for your advice – I appreciate you taking the time, and I’m sure within your experience it seems valid. We seem to be on different paths, and that’s ok.

    In the fullness of time, we’ll both end up in the same place 🙂

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction 🙂 True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and “enemy” to mainstream society and family, but also it’s greatest friend and helper, in essence 🙂
     
    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising "spiritual-seeker" get grandiosity in response.

    Best of luck! Let's hope you actually allow yourself to feel these things, rather than be numb because you're afraid of finding your own deceptions out.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  804. Such terms would be unacceptable for any Ukrainian government

    Well then there won’t be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership. That is the bare minimum.

    I agree Odessa is never happening, the West would prefer WWIII to Ukraine giving up Odessa, but the remainder of Donbas, I don’t know. Right now Ukraine isn’t surrendering any additional territory but give it 2 or 3 more years of stalemate and the West might just force Ukraine to sign off on it. Putin certainly isn’t stopping until he has the remainder of the Donbas (or the Russian army in Ukraine is defeated), that is certain.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    Well then there won’t be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership.
     
    I think Ukrainian EU membership might once have been acceptable to Russia (at least they said so), problem of course is that de facto it's become linked with NATO membership, which will never be acceptable to Russia.
    Personally I don't want Ukraine to become a full EU member in the near future (because frankly their political culture as demonstrated over the last year annoys and disgusts me and the EU has enough problems among its old members already), but some form of association with the EU must be part of any peace deal, otherwise what hope is there for the country at all? If Ukraine is left totally adrift and on its own, who knows what kind of extreme turns politics there could take.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...then there won’t be peace
     
    Right, there won't be peace. We are in the early stages of this mad war, maybe not time-wise, but in terms of the escalations that are still to come.

    Russia doesn't seem to know geographically precisely what it wants - there was the minimum goal (Donbas), it got enlarged to Crimea littoral, but there are a number of large cities that may or may not be taken by Russia (Nikolaev, Dnipro, Zaporozhie, Kharkiv...). It could become a stalemate, but that is unlikely - one or the other side will break. When Ukies (or Russians) break, there is no stopping it - it usually goes all the way down. In this war, Ukies are obviously more likely to break.

    That suggests that the final settlement will be more comprehensive with a clean sweep, that may include Odessa - the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado - not any more than for anything else. If they made a decision to use nukes than it doesn't depend on any single city.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LondonBob

  805. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William

    Such terms would be unacceptable for any Ukrainian government
     
    Well then there won't be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership. That is the bare minimum.

    I agree Odessa is never happening, the West would prefer WWIII to Ukraine giving up Odessa, but the remainder of Donbas, I don't know. Right now Ukraine isn't surrendering any additional territory but give it 2 or 3 more years of stalemate and the West might just force Ukraine to sign off on it. Putin certainly isn't stopping until he has the remainder of the Donbas (or the Russian army in Ukraine is defeated), that is certain.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow

    Well then there won’t be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership.

    I think Ukrainian EU membership might once have been acceptable to Russia (at least they said so), problem of course is that de facto it’s become linked with NATO membership, which will never be acceptable to Russia.
    Personally I don’t want Ukraine to become a full EU member in the near future (because frankly their political culture as demonstrated over the last year annoys and disgusts me and the EU has enough problems among its old members already), but some form of association with the EU must be part of any peace deal, otherwise what hope is there for the country at all? If Ukraine is left totally adrift and on its own, who knows what kind of extreme turns politics there could take.

    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader


    I think Ukrainian EU membership might once have been acceptable to Russia (at least they said so), problem of course is that de facto it’s become linked with NATO membership, which will never be acceptable to Russia.
     
    The good part of de facto rather than de jure means that the decision is not locked in. NATO is already unnecessarily large.

    It is far past time to cut the EU/NATO cord. There is no military reason for any further expansion of NATO. Too bad it cannot be reduced in size.

    don’t want Ukraine to become a full EU member in the near future
     
    You are probably safe.

    Brussels over reach has made the EU unstable. Countries are wielding sovereign veto powers in an attempt to hold back the craziness. To avoid a veto, any deal adding new members would have to include reforms that permanently reduce the scope of EU authority.

    Returning to the original intent of the EU is anathema to Brussels elites. Their bloated egos can never cede anything. The ongoing battle over UK sovereignty after BREXIT shows how they behave. Further expansion of the EU is virtually impossible.

    but some form of association with the EU must be part of any peace deal, otherwise what hope is there for the country at all
     
    Some sort of reconstruction fund and loose economic deal could make sense.

    However, such an arrangement needs to address the needs of Ukraine's neighbors such as Poland and Hungary. Their agriculture sectors are suffering as cheaper Ukie products come over the border. And, EU Ag policy has been contentious since Day 1.

    It is fairly easy to envision a scenario where the EU overstates and under delivers.

    PEACE 😇
  806. @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I just tried to provide alternative view to the general worship of Japanw prevailing on forum.


    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context.
     
    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like "strange, bizarre, childish", not "cruel, nihilistic".

    Poland has expelled Germans relatively peacefully, and few were even allowed to stay under certain conditions, this is why German emigration from Poland went on until 1970ties. It was in Czechoslovakia where some excesses took place.

    BTW, I am aware of the fact that Poland has a lot of sympathy in Japan. Some Japanese are coming to study not just Chopin music, but also Polish studies (Polonistyka). In fact, it is also the opposite - Japan has been popular in Poland too (however, mostly its pop culture like anime, manga and J-pop, Murakami or Mishima books have never become so popular here like in the West ), even if recently South Korea became the most popular Far East country here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enigma_of_Japanese_Power

    Wolferen's book is primarily about culture and government in Japan, not about economy. I see you didn't read it and still speak about it - this is not strictly correct too.
    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students I once lived in a small student house (20 people) in Amsterdam. I once tried to defend Tibet when talking with them... well, I was told the government simply deals with criminals there, as every gov does.... and for next few weeks one or other of them conveyed to me (did I hear?) some good news of China in the West, like some Chinese minister came to Netherlands and there was no problem with Tibet at all. The intention was probably to convince me that whatever I said in criticism was irrelevant in the broader context.
    This experience made me aware that criticizing Far East to its inhabitants is a serious thing.

    However, you should be aware that this is very different than culture in Poland, where people complain and criticize Poland a lot. I suppose it is a part of general culture of complaining in Poland, which, may be a kind of "sticking together in the disaster of Polish history" but some say, it is done to prevent people from being arrogant - so it would be a reverse of Asian non-complaining culture, which also prevents arrogance... in the end, it may be simply about what majority does, and sticking out is read as arrogance.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I liked “Samurai Fiction” so much that I wrote a review of it. It is a rare movie where its Japanese characters overcome the bounds of their Japanese culture, so to say.

    https://www.imdb.com/review/rw8571914/?ref_=tt_urv

  807. @Wokechoke
    @Leaves No Shadow

    Every Anorexic I’ve met has recently lost a dad or mother or a pet. Loss of weight in extremis can occur after a break up.

    what are you talking about?

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    What I wrote is true. I’m sorry you’ve had contact with anorexia, but your understanding of it is extremely superficial, which is not your fault, as it is a shame, rage and vengeance related disease that sufferers do not easily discuss with depth. Also, it is extremely serious and it is not because of a lost pet or a break-up, nor even a parental death.

    5-10% of anorexics die within 10 years after contracting the disease and 18-20% of anorexics will be dead after 20 years. Anorexia nervosa has the highest death rate of any psychiatric illness (including major depression).

    About half of cases are comorbid with Cluster B personality disorders, especially borderline or narcissism. These are the ones that don’t tend to improve much, ever, as these personalities are very fixed by nature and so don’t tend to grow and change.

    BPD has shown to be present in about 25% of people with anorexia nervosa and 28% of those with bulimia nervosa

    In the other half of cases, you’ll find the anorexics have Cluster B parents. Most often a heavily narccisistic and/or borderline and abusive mother. Of course, diagnosing such a woman, with such, is difficult as these type of personalities are extremely manipulative, are the most against therapy and will turn on and demonise anyone who might reveal their personality, which means that many therapists will refuse to work with such people, though obviously come up with some other excuse. Even though, with years of treatment and the strength and courage to work on themselves, they really can improve. Just don’t bet on it! Especially your own life.

    Furthermore, what’s amazing about these personality disorders is how similar their behaviour is, and how similar their effect on those around them. For example, a narcissistic/BPD mother will often pick her son as “the good child” and her daughter as “the bad child.” This makes the mother feel in control and keeps the two children apart and therefore trapped in her narrative. It also usually results in the son being psychologically unaware and his mother’s best little boy. He’ll base his whole sense of inner goodness around defending her and join in demonising his sister. Bizarrely, a huge percentage of male to female transexuals have this upbringing, at least if they’re the type which present at a young age.

    Fifty-three percent of the mothers of boys with GID (transgenderism) compared with only 6% of controls met the diagnosis for Borderline Personality Disorder

    The point being that borderline/narcisistic (and these two Cluster B disorders are extremely similar, if not the same thing, at depth) mothers tend to eat the soul of their best little boy sons. Those sons then can rarely escape as they convince themselves their mother is a beautiful soul who is just misunderstood blah blah blah, while she is destroying them, and transgenderism is a way of them committing internal suicide without leaving, though something they often find irresistible. It is also an odd fantasy of revenge against the mother who is made them a second co-dependent husband.

    [MORE]

    My advice to such a son would be to completely block his mother. Realise that everything she told him about other people was a lie designed to control him and put her own evil onto other people. And that he must seek therapy and tell the therapist about his mother’s type, as they will understand straight away. The process will feel like dying to him and will likely bring on suicidal ideation. He may not survive. Such is the extremely poisonous control of such a mother. Indeed, most sons in that position will never realise that they are being slowly fed on by their waif-like but actually black widow mother, and never be free and will end up throroughly distorted themselves.

    So, the teenage girl’s anorexia following parental death that you mention (the vast majority of anorexia, is first diagnosed in teenage girls as it is when they are first able to individuate and take revenge on their mother) is often at the parental death of the weak, cowardly father who allowed the abusive mother.

    Not because the death really triggers it, but because this type of borderline and narcissistic woman so often has a husband who dies early. There is no scientific explanation for it, but it is well-known. It often seems that, like a spiritual black widow, they somehow kill and feed on their husband.

    What’s particularly awful for the family is that normal people cannot possibly understand. The behaviour of someone stuck between neurotic and psychotic coping mechanisms for life is not imagined by most people. However, those who understand really understand. Like Moses Farrow, adopted son of Mia (abusive, borderline and narccisistic) and Woody Allen. Here is his account, that normie journalists unfortunately do not believe, but is certainly true.

    http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html?m=1

  808. @German_reader
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?
     
    No, because you're not arguing in good faith anyway, and because your "arguments" are indistinguishable from the propaganda drivel in the msm.
    But one aspect of this crazy request is that it probably means the military situation for Ukraine is pretty bad. The stated goals of Zelensky's government (total military victory over Russia, including re-conquest of Crimea and Donbass) are probably unachievable anyway, unless they somehow manage to bring about direct NATO intervention (which would have a good chance of destroying Central Europe at least). That's probably also one purpose of those continually escalating demands for new weapons systems, like fighter jets or cluster munitions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    Your logic is impeccable. A military seeking more and better weapons must be losing. Because winning militaries would never do that. As for the rest of your nonsense, I thought you might have learned from events proving my predictions all right, even as you dismissed them the same way, and yours all wrong. But learning is hard for the grump.

  809. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    If your static identity is as the outsider, you will perpetually be defined by yourself in the negative as against friends/family. What you wrote is a contradiction in one sentence. You are a slave to your own reactionary dependence. Not even a thing, but the shadow of a thing
     
    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction :) True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and "enemy" to mainstream society and family, but also it's greatest friend and helper, in essence :)

    As for metaphysics, they grow out of experience - so for me, it's quite concrete and based in experience. You've had different experiences than me, so for you, what I say is "abstract".

    Thanks for your advice - I appreciate you taking the time, and I'm sure within your experience it seems valid. We seem to be on different paths, and that's ok.

    In the fullness of time, we'll both end up in the same place :)

    Cheers.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction 🙂 True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and “enemy” to mainstream society and family, but also it’s greatest friend and helper, in essence 🙂

    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising “spiritual-seeker” get grandiosity in response.

    Best of luck! Let’s hope you actually allow yourself to feel these things, rather than be numb because you’re afraid of finding your own deceptions out.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising “spiritual-seeker” get grandiosity in response.
     
    Of course :) It took me a long time to realize that this is how it should be.

    First stage of the spiritual path - you try hard to minimize your ego, realizing in some way you don't fully understand it's the source of your suffering.

    Second stage - you realize something is wrong with this, as trying to minimize your ego just builds it. But you're not sure what the mistake is. Most people abandon the path at this point, or remain stuck here - sometimes for a lifetime (and the majority of people never even embark on the first stage).

    Third stage - you realize that you are only minimizing your personal, individual ego in order to gain a much bigger ego - in fact, to gain the biggest ego there can be :) To become the greatest monster of ego there is, and identify with the whole world and the entire universe :)

    Fourth stage - you realize that you never had to "gain" this monstrous ego - you were it the whole time! You just have to relax - the problem was never real, only cognitive :) And that everyone else is also It, so there's no point having conflict with people.

    But spiritual seekers are those who are not content to be ordinary egotistic people, but aspire to be the greatest, most monstrously egotistic people of all time - to actually be the All!

    Only, to be the greatest ego you have to give up being an ordinary individual ego, which appears in ordinary life as having no ego :)

    That is why when God showed up on earth, he appeared to have no ego - because only God can have no ego. But aren't we all God?

    Cheers, Laxa. May we all reach the destination at our own pace....

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

  810. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    I do hope, that everything I write is in the end a contradiction 🙂 True and untrue at the same time. I am an outsider and “enemy” to mainstream society and family, but also it’s greatest friend and helper, in essence 🙂
     
    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising "spiritual-seeker" get grandiosity in response.

    Best of luck! Let's hope you actually allow yourself to feel these things, rather than be numb because you're afraid of finding your own deceptions out.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising “spiritual-seeker” get grandiosity in response.

    Of course 🙂 It took me a long time to realize that this is how it should be.

    First stage of the spiritual path – you try hard to minimize your ego, realizing in some way you don’t fully understand it’s the source of your suffering.

    Second stage – you realize something is wrong with this, as trying to minimize your ego just builds it. But you’re not sure what the mistake is. Most people abandon the path at this point, or remain stuck here – sometimes for a lifetime (and the majority of people never even embark on the first stage).

    Third stage – you realize that you are only minimizing your personal, individual ego in order to gain a much bigger ego – in fact, to gain the biggest ego there can be 🙂 To become the greatest monster of ego there is, and identify with the whole world and the entire universe 🙂

    Fourth stage – you realize that you never had to “gain” this monstrous ego – you were it the whole time! You just have to relax – the problem was never real, only cognitive 🙂 And that everyone else is also It, so there’s no point having conflict with people.

    But spiritual seekers are those who are not content to be ordinary egotistic people, but aspire to be the greatest, most monstrously egotistic people of all time – to actually be the All!

    Only, to be the greatest ego you have to give up being an ordinary individual ego, which appears in ordinary life as having no ego 🙂

    That is why when God showed up on earth, he appeared to have no ego – because only God can have no ego. But aren’t we all God?

    Cheers, Laxa. May we all reach the destination at our own pace….

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Point out the grandiosity of the supposed spiritual seeker and get threatened.

  811. @Dmitry
    @Greasy William


    buzz cut is not Jewish or even Israeli.
     
    He is definitely Israeli. That is native Hebrew speaking Israeli man, with the stereotypical Israeli personality, way of speaking, intonation. Those people are seen in Israel as almost the same as native-born Israelis as they come to Israel as a child and were in the school there.

    It means parents repatriated with the law of return. This kind of immigration requires Jewish roots to the third generation. Whether they had a halachic status or not is another question in the local culture (it usually depends on the maternal grandmother)


    eft a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.

     

    Euromaidan was in 2014. He immigrated to Israel in 1996. He didn't say "anti-Russian racism". He said there was racism there. But that would be the parents view of 1990s Ukraine.

    he is an ethnic Russian from Kiev who left a few years earlier to get away from anti Russian racism in the aftermath of Maidan.
     
    He doesn't say that. He says he has been in Israel since 19 years ago, has zero connection or interest in Ukraine ("shum davar") and "anachnu memishpacha rusit". In Hebrew like in English, there isn't distinction of the word between the language and nationality, unlike in Russian language, so even Georgians in Israel say "anachnu memishpacha rusit" because it can mean "Russian speaking", or even "from anywhere in the postsoviet space".

    she was born in Moscow, immigrated to Israel at age 9, speaks Russian, eats mainly Russian food and celebrates Russian holidays. She also visits Russia frequently. I’m not even sure she’s 100% Jewish as she doesn’t look like a Russian Jew
     
    This looks like stereotypical Israeli people who are from the Mountain Jewish community or could be Georgian Jewish. They one of the most common people in Israel. They are ethnically looking people from Azerbaijan which is why they have this Caucasian appearance. Although personally I can't distinguish between the people like Mountain Jews from Azerbaijan and the ones which are from Central Asia.

    In Israel, they are very common nationalities and usually more working class (although they are very powerful in Moscow and control the real estate development for some whole areas, in Israel they are just mostly the ordinary working class population).

    She just jokes the only "Russian holiday" which she knows is New Year, which is actually nowadays mainstream in Israel with the young people. They also mistranslate her. She says she is habituated Israeli and not Russian.

    It is an example of stereotypical Jewish Israeli people that speaks the local Hebrew.


    and she describes herself as an atheist.
     
    Judaism originates as a religious cult. But in the way the modern Jews are talking, it's not related to the religious belief (unlike e.g. Christianity). It's based in family documents, as they write the nationality in the identity card. A significant proportion of the Jews in Israel are atheist including most important politicians like Ben Gurion (the first prime minister in Israel).

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Buzz cut dude speaks in slight but unmistakable Russian-accented Hebrew.

  812. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Scratch a supposedly ego minimising “spiritual-seeker” get grandiosity in response.
     
    Of course :) It took me a long time to realize that this is how it should be.

    First stage of the spiritual path - you try hard to minimize your ego, realizing in some way you don't fully understand it's the source of your suffering.

    Second stage - you realize something is wrong with this, as trying to minimize your ego just builds it. But you're not sure what the mistake is. Most people abandon the path at this point, or remain stuck here - sometimes for a lifetime (and the majority of people never even embark on the first stage).

    Third stage - you realize that you are only minimizing your personal, individual ego in order to gain a much bigger ego - in fact, to gain the biggest ego there can be :) To become the greatest monster of ego there is, and identify with the whole world and the entire universe :)

    Fourth stage - you realize that you never had to "gain" this monstrous ego - you were it the whole time! You just have to relax - the problem was never real, only cognitive :) And that everyone else is also It, so there's no point having conflict with people.

    But spiritual seekers are those who are not content to be ordinary egotistic people, but aspire to be the greatest, most monstrously egotistic people of all time - to actually be the All!

    Only, to be the greatest ego you have to give up being an ordinary individual ego, which appears in ordinary life as having no ego :)

    That is why when God showed up on earth, he appeared to have no ego - because only God can have no ego. But aren't we all God?

    Cheers, Laxa. May we all reach the destination at our own pace....

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    Point out the grandiosity of the supposed spiritual seeker and get threatened.

  813. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I've never written a speech before. I limit my utterings to obscure comments made on marginal websites. :-) Long ago when I was in college, I often received high marks for my papers that I wrote, or even take home exams.

    Replies: @Gerard1234

    When I was in college. I often received high marks for the papers that I wrote.

    So YOU are the tapeworm responsible responsible for “Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea” and “Jesus was Ukrainian” and other anti-historical BS that khokhol Banderite freak “Education” Institutes in US (notice how it all comes from Pindostani money in some form) have tried to circulate. LOL.

    Face facts – without Russian Historians, the study of documents in Russia – the study of “Ukrainian” history is completely worthless. Certainly more so than Galician cities – the place a person can go to if they want to AVOID “Ukrainian” culture you imbecile

  814. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Thanks for the recommendations. I will be sure to look into them.


    I also really liked his 5 Centimeters Per Second
     
    This one I have seen. I thought it really had top level-animation. Cherry trees in bloom (which are also part of the series I recommended) might be a Japanese cliche, but I think the movie might have the most artful depiction of them I recall seeing.

    I also like looking at the wikipedia article about it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Centimeters_per_Second

    Because the pictures reiterate this idea I was trying to communicate about how the Japanese really appreciate place.

    Honestly, I don't know how to feel about the plot because it is so contemplative. In this way, I would say it is very Japanese, to the point where I am not sure I am capable of even understanding the director's purposes. I'm probably a typical Westerner, in that I want to leave off the contemplation at the end, and make it a happy story, or at least a story with a happy thread.

    Part of me wants to whip out a chart of declining TFR, and take the director aside, and point to it and say, "Don't make it all unrequited. Don't make it alienating." Do what they did in It's a Wonderful Life and have some old fogey on his porch, tell the guy to kiss the girl, and then depict them at the end with 5 kids, and change the name of the movie to "5 Loving Kids", to encourage Japanese girls to become mothers.

    At the end of the day, I think Japan will need to lose its subtlety in this one way, regardless of the purposes of the director, and even if in some weird way, what I was saying was meant to be the point of movie. (though I am not so sure it was.)
    _____
    I've also seen the original Berserk. At the time (long ago), it really schocked me that a cartoon would be so violent. It is something that in a way, doubtlessly exceeded the violence of Hollywood (or the normal high level, I guess there are always qualifications). Probably, influenced by the medium.

    Once we perceive this demonstration, it is strange to think how the medium of anime might make other things possible, which are not as readily possible on film. Not just blood and guts, but spiritual ideas and emotions.

    one that Dmitry once told me was “boring”. But Dmitry just might be a Philistine 🙂
     
    I'm thinking that we only had a narrow window to reach Dmitri artistically - in the point of severest lockdown - and perhaps, we may have had to shut off his internet and mail him the DVDs, slowly, one at a time, like in the days when you had to go to Blockbuster and wait in a long line, that stretched around the place.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Yes, it was a very aesthetic film, wasn’t it, more even than his other films.

    I understand what you’re saying about the unresolved plot in the movie and how that might tie in to your concerns about national health and vigor, but it’s actually a very classic and beautiful treatment of traditional Japanese Buddhist values of detachment, evanescence, and the unsatisfying nature of earthly life.

    These are all classic themes in Japanese culture and in Buddhism, and Japan would not be the place we love and appreciate without them.

    I also believe that these seemingly “anti-life” messages that on the surface don’t promote vigor and health actually contribute to vigor and health in a very important, if indirect way in fact, are indispensable to national vigor 🙂

    It’s a striking fact that cultures with these seemingly “anti-life” messages, like Christianity or Buddhism, are paradoxically very vigorous and self confident so long as that message is intact – the West, for instance, went into decline after it abandoned Christianity and adopted a value system that focuses purely on flourishing on this earth.

    It would seem that excessive attachment to this world and life in it, actually depresses one, while paradoxically, a certain measure of detachment from this world actually liberates ones energies and makes one more vigorous and self confident.

    There is also the moral dimension, which is in my opinion one of the main sources of vigor and self confidence – taking this world too seriously seems to involve a loss of moral dimension.

    In the end, the detachment in that film which refuses to prioritize our earthly concerns opens up a channel to the Gods 🙂 And that is the source of vigor.

    The problem with the fascist approach – and I’m not using the word here pejoratively just descriptively – is that it’s too straightforward and rational, but the world consists of indirect, paradoxical, and second and third order effects.

    Yes, Berserk is shockingly violent and brutal, which is a bit off putting, but the films are compelling. I agree that anime as a medium has certain possibilities not easily realized in regular cinema, or only at great cost. But really, some effects can only be achieved in animation.

    As for Dmitry, lol – yes, our window has closed with the end of the pandemic, alas 🙂

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    If this theory is correct, then earthly flourishing may be a second or third order effects.

    That would explain why all pro-natalist policies fail. Having large families is a second order effect of something else.

    That would also explain why the moment the West abandoned transcendence and adopted a philosophy of flourishing - it started going into decline.

    This whole mysterious realm of second and third order effects, indirect effects, and seemingly paradoxical effects - this should be an entire field of study.

    The fact that this effect is not widely discussed in our culture, and proposed solutions are most often direct and straightforward, is an indication of the radical loss of intellectual dimension.

  815. @songbird
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    One more thing I wanted to mention:

    I got into the series I mentioned because I heard the music first, and it made an impression on me. The music is often how I first encounter an anime, and get inspired to try it. I think this speaks as a mark against the idea that the Japanese are somehow less creative, though there are some Japanese who do believe this.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I like this idea a lot, to judge an anime by it’s music 🙂 I have to say on some animes the opening and closing songs are absolutely essential to my appreciation for the shows, and I never skip them – on Western shows, even series I love, it’s rare for me not to skip the intro!

    Cultures can really be so different.

    I don’t think the Japanese are uncreative at all – I think as a society they simply have different goals than the West, and are immensely creative in different areas and in different ways. I actually want to write up my ideas on this – I call Asian creativity “horizontal creativity”, as it spreads out into space and explores the human experience, and Western creativity “vertical creativity” as it aims upwards and towards transforming human nature and experience. Of course, there is overlap – but these broad types strike me as true.

    There is something one might call “civilizational autism” which afflicts particularly large and successful civilizations, in which they cannot understand that other cultures might have different values and goals from them, so they describe those cultures as deficient, when they in fact just want different things.

    One of the things you discover when you travel to poorer and less developed countries, is that often, they don’t consider themselves in the least inferior to developed countries, and consider themselves vastly superior in areas of life that they prioritize.

    It’s a disconcerting feeling to be looked down upon, and even pitied, in a country that is officially inferior in every way 🙂

    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an “autistic” and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.

    People who find this a mystery cannot understand that technology and domination of nature may not be every cultures priority – they do not have the theory of mind that would allow them to understand people unlike themselves. In fact, even a passing acquaintance with classical Chinese culture should make one aware that the value of technology was considered strictly limited, and often even ambiguous and uncertain, whereas a perusal of Aristotle or any of the great ancient thinkers should apprise one of the fact that the ancient world prized contemplation over techne, and thought that intellectual activity directed towards some “useful” end rather was distinctly inferior and de-prioritized.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an “autistic” and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.
     
    This view is kind of autistic in itself, since it negates the influence of external factors. You seem to accept that every civilization falls primarily due to its own internal tensions, generated by some general cyclical nature of civilizations themselves as established by Ibn Khaldun (perhaps).

    In case of the fall of Rome, there is rather a clear consensus that it was the pressure of external factors like plagues, barbarians, environment (droughts etc) producing net effect, not the loss of ancient Roman virtues or corruption of society by Christians.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/fall-rome-recorded-trees

    The study also showed that climate and catastrophe often line up. In the 3rd century C.E., for example, extended droughts matched the timing of barbarian invasions and political turmoil.

    And what about the infamous year of 1177 BCE?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  816. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    Yes, it was a very aesthetic film, wasn't it, more even than his other films.

    I understand what you're saying about the unresolved plot in the movie and how that might tie in to your concerns about national health and vigor, but it's actually a very classic and beautiful treatment of traditional Japanese Buddhist values of detachment, evanescence, and the unsatisfying nature of earthly life.

    These are all classic themes in Japanese culture and in Buddhism, and Japan would not be the place we love and appreciate without them.

    I also believe that these seemingly "anti-life" messages that on the surface don't promote vigor and health actually contribute to vigor and health in a very important, if indirect way in fact, are indispensable to national vigor :)

    It's a striking fact that cultures with these seemingly "anti-life" messages, like Christianity or Buddhism, are paradoxically very vigorous and self confident so long as that message is intact - the West, for instance, went into decline after it abandoned Christianity and adopted a value system that focuses purely on flourishing on this earth.

    It would seem that excessive attachment to this world and life in it, actually depresses one, while paradoxically, a certain measure of detachment from this world actually liberates ones energies and makes one more vigorous and self confident.

    There is also the moral dimension, which is in my opinion one of the main sources of vigor and self confidence - taking this world too seriously seems to involve a loss of moral dimension.

    In the end, the detachment in that film which refuses to prioritize our earthly concerns opens up a channel to the Gods :) And that is the source of vigor.

    The problem with the fascist approach - and I'm not using the word here pejoratively just descriptively - is that it's too straightforward and rational, but the world consists of indirect, paradoxical, and second and third order effects.

    Yes, Berserk is shockingly violent and brutal, which is a bit off putting, but the films are compelling. I agree that anime as a medium has certain possibilities not easily realized in regular cinema, or only at great cost. But really, some effects can only be achieved in animation.

    As for Dmitry, lol - yes, our window has closed with the end of the pandemic, alas :)

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    If this theory is correct, then earthly flourishing may be a second or third order effects.

    That would explain why all pro-natalist policies fail. Having large families is a second order effect of something else.

    That would also explain why the moment the West abandoned transcendence and adopted a philosophy of flourishing – it started going into decline.

    This whole mysterious realm of second and third order effects, indirect effects, and seemingly paradoxical effects – this should be an entire field of study.

    The fact that this effect is not widely discussed in our culture, and proposed solutions are most often direct and straightforward, is an indication of the radical loss of intellectual dimension.

  817. @German_reader
    @Leaves No Shadow


    Can you help me to understand on this particular point?
     
    No, because you're not arguing in good faith anyway, and because your "arguments" are indistinguishable from the propaganda drivel in the msm.
    But one aspect of this crazy request is that it probably means the military situation for Ukraine is pretty bad. The stated goals of Zelensky's government (total military victory over Russia, including re-conquest of Crimea and Donbass) are probably unachievable anyway, unless they somehow manage to bring about direct NATO intervention (which would have a good chance of destroying Central Europe at least). That's probably also one purpose of those continually escalating demands for new weapons systems, like fighter jets or cluster munitions.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @Wokechoke

    I don’t know if it’s true but let’s say, every time a soldier in the US military dies the US government collects X Million dollars from death insurance policy on the soldier and the surviving family get a chunk of that distributed over time. The policy underwriter in a hypothetical scenario is banking on very few soldiers getting killed so he keeps getting his fees, but also he depends on the aggression of that military to keep plundering resources globally. It’s a little like Dead Souls. Control the life assurance policy of that military and you’d never want for anything again.

  818. @Greasy William

    Such terms would be unacceptable for any Ukrainian government
     
    Well then there won't be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership. That is the bare minimum.

    I agree Odessa is never happening, the West would prefer WWIII to Ukraine giving up Odessa, but the remainder of Donbas, I don't know. Right now Ukraine isn't surrendering any additional territory but give it 2 or 3 more years of stalemate and the West might just force Ukraine to sign off on it. Putin certainly isn't stopping until he has the remainder of the Donbas (or the Russian army in Ukraine is defeated), that is certain.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow

    …then there won’t be peace

    Right, there won’t be peace. We are in the early stages of this mad war, maybe not time-wise, but in terms of the escalations that are still to come.

    Russia doesn’t seem to know geographically precisely what it wants – there was the minimum goal (Donbas), it got enlarged to Crimea littoral, but there are a number of large cities that may or may not be taken by Russia (Nikolaev, Dnipro, Zaporozhie, Kharkiv…). It could become a stalemate, but that is unlikely – one or the other side will break. When Ukies (or Russians) break, there is no stopping it – it usually goes all the way down. In this war, Ukies are obviously more likely to break.

    That suggests that the final settlement will be more comprehensive with a clean sweep, that may include Odessa – the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado – not any more than for anything else. If they made a decision to use nukes than it doesn’t depend on any single city.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado
     
    It depends on the circumstances. Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely will escalate and rightly so as they can not give in to nuclear extortion. The West won't send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn't even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    , @LondonBob
    @Beckow

    101st in Romania just across the border from Odessa, can see them being moved in as a bluff, of course light infantry would be decimated, just don't see how the US could follow up from there, they don't have the logistics and the UAF would be gone by then. Watching an elite unit get wiped out would be sobering, there wouldn't be war cries.

    Replies: @A123

  819. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @songbird

    I like this idea a lot, to judge an anime by it's music :) I have to say on some animes the opening and closing songs are absolutely essential to my appreciation for the shows, and I never skip them - on Western shows, even series I love, it's rare for me not to skip the intro!

    Cultures can really be so different.

    I don't think the Japanese are uncreative at all - I think as a society they simply have different goals than the West, and are immensely creative in different areas and in different ways. I actually want to write up my ideas on this - I call Asian creativity "horizontal creativity", as it spreads out into space and explores the human experience, and Western creativity "vertical creativity" as it aims upwards and towards transforming human nature and experience. Of course, there is overlap - but these broad types strike me as true.

    There is something one might call "civilizational autism" which afflicts particularly large and successful civilizations, in which they cannot understand that other cultures might have different values and goals from them, so they describe those cultures as deficient, when they in fact just want different things.

    One of the things you discover when you travel to poorer and less developed countries, is that often, they don't consider themselves in the least inferior to developed countries, and consider themselves vastly superior in areas of life that they prioritize.

    It's a disconcerting feeling to be looked down upon, and even pitied, in a country that is officially inferior in every way :)

    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an "autistic" and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.

    People who find this a mystery cannot understand that technology and domination of nature may not be every cultures priority - they do not have the theory of mind that would allow them to understand people unlike themselves. In fact, even a passing acquaintance with classical Chinese culture should make one aware that the value of technology was considered strictly limited, and often even ambiguous and uncertain, whereas a perusal of Aristotle or any of the great ancient thinkers should apprise one of the fact that the ancient world prized contemplation over techne, and thought that intellectual activity directed towards some "useful" end rather was distinctly inferior and de-prioritized.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an “autistic” and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.

    This view is kind of autistic in itself, since it negates the influence of external factors. You seem to accept that every civilization falls primarily due to its own internal tensions, generated by some general cyclical nature of civilizations themselves as established by Ibn Khaldun (perhaps).

    In case of the fall of Rome, there is rather a clear consensus that it was the pressure of external factors like plagues, barbarians, environment (droughts etc) producing net effect, not the loss of ancient Roman virtues or corruption of society by Christians.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/fall-rome-recorded-trees

    The study also showed that climate and catastrophe often line up. In the 3rd century C.E., for example, extended droughts matched the timing of barbarian invasions and political turmoil.

    And what about the infamous year of 1177 BCE?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    First of all, my theory has important differences to the standard cyclical theory. It describes the exact spiritual and psychological mechanism by which a civilization falls; boredom.

    This is a major - and rather stunning - contribution to the field :)

    More seriously, I'm not suggesting some "natural" cyclical event, incomprehensible in it's own way like all forces of nature - but something richly significant for human psychology, spirituality, and life purpose.

    Secondly, I'm not discounting external factors, but Rome was able to not just ward off these external factors but thrive for centuries until one day - it couldn't. Or just didn't want to.

    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world's most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat - to go down and stay down - and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it's also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist - life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what. Similarly, Jews, defeated and kicked out of their land, refused to admit defeat (as a corporate body, a nation).

    Will is what matters.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

    , @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Also, for centuries the causes of Rome's fall were argued about - indicating that external forces were not seen as sufficiently different from previous events to provide finality.

    It awaited the era of explaining everything in entirely physicalist terms to form a "consensus" (does it even exist now?).

    It's also a consensus that Americans are fat because of food availability :)

    Expert consensuses in late-Western culture probably shouldn't be given too much attention.

    Incidentally, returning the focus to willpower and personal agency should be welcome to anyone unhappy with the way things are going. These late-Western attempts to explain everything as having nothing to do with human agency lead to despair.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  820. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I just got through watching one of Anthony Bourdain's travelogues, one where he visits Japan. While thinking about the tastes and smells that he would encounter while in Tokyo, he summed up his feelings by stating that he was anticipating "a psychedelic assault on his senses". I liked how he phrased this, and it reminded me of your earlier comment about "colorful phrases". :-)

    Replies: @songbird

    he was anticipating “a psychedelic assault on his senses”.

    I think I am too straight-laced to enjoy a phrase like that.


    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places, and I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.

    But it really is frightening to think about. If such places took off, I might suppose that they could quickly be repurposed into mass-scale secret prisons. Perhaps, even ones where people are raised from infancy. That is when I would stop eating pigs, though I enjoy it.


    Yes, I have heard of the silver fox experiments, and those cages do look a little bare. Wikipedia article is interesting, but I sometimes wish I could ask a little more about it. Wonder what would have happened trying to do the same thing with dogs, on the same scale, either for longevity or IQ. Oldest dogs live to about 30 or so, which is quite a bit older than the oldest ones I have known. My favorite dog ever (the oldest) only made it to 15.

    I may be a loon but I would have state-financed dog breeding, in my ideal state. And more that that, I would probably try to domesticate some of these other animals.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I think that the term "psychedelic" need not encompass anything to do with drugs today. The work of a very steady hand and a sober eye can also be described as such (colorful, intricate designs, mesmerising content):

    https://art.ebsqart.com/art/34458/739642.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    , @A123
    @songbird


    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places,
     
    Perhaps... However, this is CCP-landia. Poor design and shoddy construction are fairly normal.

    I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.
     
    It is much more likely directed by central planners, party officials, and lead contractors trying to pocket as much as possible from the build.

    Can you imagine breakage of a poorly designed sewage system in a multi story pig farm? Now, can you envision the stairwells? Waste has to go somewhere.

    While the buildings are new and everything works perhaps it will contain Swine Flu. However, 10-20 years down the line when things stop working -- Resident Evil: Porcine City.

    PEACE 😇
  821. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an “autistic” and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.
     
    This view is kind of autistic in itself, since it negates the influence of external factors. You seem to accept that every civilization falls primarily due to its own internal tensions, generated by some general cyclical nature of civilizations themselves as established by Ibn Khaldun (perhaps).

    In case of the fall of Rome, there is rather a clear consensus that it was the pressure of external factors like plagues, barbarians, environment (droughts etc) producing net effect, not the loss of ancient Roman virtues or corruption of society by Christians.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/fall-rome-recorded-trees

    The study also showed that climate and catastrophe often line up. In the 3rd century C.E., for example, extended droughts matched the timing of barbarian invasions and political turmoil.

    And what about the infamous year of 1177 BCE?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    First of all, my theory has important differences to the standard cyclical theory. It describes the exact spiritual and psychological mechanism by which a civilization falls; boredom.

    This is a major – and rather stunning – contribution to the field 🙂

    More seriously, I’m not suggesting some “natural” cyclical event, incomprehensible in it’s own way like all forces of nature – but something richly significant for human psychology, spirituality, and life purpose.

    Secondly, I’m not discounting external factors, but Rome was able to not just ward off these external factors but thrive for centuries until one day – it couldn’t. Or just didn’t want to.

    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world’s most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat – to go down and stay down – and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it’s also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist – life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what. Similarly, Jews, defeated and kicked out of their land, refused to admit defeat (as a corporate body, a nation).

    Will is what matters.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world’s most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat – to go down and stay down – and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it’s also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist – life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what.
     

    You should be a great fan of German idealist philosophy with this stress on will... I mean "will to power" is Nietzschean, but your object of it - history - is Hegelian. You see history in Hegelian terms, as great succession of superstructures of "Will to Power", which is your Hegelian Geist.

    But you are wrong on Punic Wars. Punic Wars were primarily wars of attrition, Rome was simply able to absorb greater harm than Carthage due to its greater and healthier population (unlike Carthage, Rome banned cousin marriages) which outmatched monetary resources of Carthage, a merchant city which relied mainly on mercenaries. There was a time when Carthage had a citizen army too, but after great losses of these citizens during Sicilian Wars with Greeks they moved to primarily mercenary model of warfare.

    Carthaginians never really outmatched Romans in terms of fielded armies... But there was "what" which would have forced Rome to its knees, a "What " which Hannibal had been unable to accomplish - a successful siege of Rome. But to defend Rome as a city was something totally different than defending Mediterranean, or Imperium Romanum, itself - 500 years later.

    During the Third Punic War, Carthaginians had all the "will to power" they could muster - and still were unable to successfully defend their city.

    Replies: @Yahya

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    His point is that you have only one theory for everything and everyone, which is therefore more likely to be about you than to fit literally all the rest of existence.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  822. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Wokechoke

    All bids for power are in the end gambles - or gambits, if you prefer. No one ever knows beforehand if they will work. It's always a risk - which is why the phrase fortune favors the bold was coined.

    I've had the (mis)fortune to be around powerful people who amassed fortunes, and they are bold risk-takers to the last man - that is probably what separates the powerful most from the average man, not ability. There are plenty of capable people.

    The British who conquered their empire were risk-takers and adventurers - they didn't have a grand plan, they exploited opportunity as it arose, and didn't have too many scruples about their behavior.

    The British lost their empire, some said, because they "lost their nerve" - but, I think, they just got bored with it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

    Teh AK47 and RPG7 made keeping an empire too bloody. there is still boiling resentment about the USSR lavishing niggers with such advanced weapons they could never have manufactured by themselves.

  823. @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    Well then there won’t be peace. There will be no end to this war without Ukraine renouncing EU/NATO membership.
     
    I think Ukrainian EU membership might once have been acceptable to Russia (at least they said so), problem of course is that de facto it's become linked with NATO membership, which will never be acceptable to Russia.
    Personally I don't want Ukraine to become a full EU member in the near future (because frankly their political culture as demonstrated over the last year annoys and disgusts me and the EU has enough problems among its old members already), but some form of association with the EU must be part of any peace deal, otherwise what hope is there for the country at all? If Ukraine is left totally adrift and on its own, who knows what kind of extreme turns politics there could take.

    Replies: @A123

    I think Ukrainian EU membership might once have been acceptable to Russia (at least they said so), problem of course is that de facto it’s become linked with NATO membership, which will never be acceptable to Russia.

    The good part of de facto rather than de jure means that the decision is not locked in. NATO is already unnecessarily large.

    It is far past time to cut the EU/NATO cord. There is no military reason for any further expansion of NATO. Too bad it cannot be reduced in size.

    don’t want Ukraine to become a full EU member in the near future

    You are probably safe.

    Brussels over reach has made the EU unstable. Countries are wielding sovereign veto powers in an attempt to hold back the craziness. To avoid a veto, any deal adding new members would have to include reforms that permanently reduce the scope of EU authority.

    Returning to the original intent of the EU is anathema to Brussels elites. Their bloated egos can never cede anything. The ongoing battle over UK sovereignty after BREXIT shows how they behave. Further expansion of the EU is virtually impossible.

    but some form of association with the EU must be part of any peace deal, otherwise what hope is there for the country at all

    Some sort of reconstruction fund and loose economic deal could make sense.

    However, such an arrangement needs to address the needs of Ukraine’s neighbors such as Poland and Hungary. Their agriculture sectors are suffering as cheaper Ukie products come over the border. And, EU Ag policy has been contentious since Day 1.

    It is fairly easy to envision a scenario where the EU overstates and under delivers.

    PEACE 😇

  824. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Just like there is this discussion over why the Roman Empire collapsed when to my mind there is no mystery at all about it (the real mystery is why it lasted so long), so too there is what I consider an “autistic” and rather useless discussion about why the Industrial Revolution happened in the West and not in say, China, or ancient Rome.
     
    This view is kind of autistic in itself, since it negates the influence of external factors. You seem to accept that every civilization falls primarily due to its own internal tensions, generated by some general cyclical nature of civilizations themselves as established by Ibn Khaldun (perhaps).

    In case of the fall of Rome, there is rather a clear consensus that it was the pressure of external factors like plagues, barbarians, environment (droughts etc) producing net effect, not the loss of ancient Roman virtues or corruption of society by Christians.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/fall-rome-recorded-trees

    The study also showed that climate and catastrophe often line up. In the 3rd century C.E., for example, extended droughts matched the timing of barbarian invasions and political turmoil.

    And what about the infamous year of 1177 BCE?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    Also, for centuries the causes of Rome’s fall were argued about – indicating that external forces were not seen as sufficiently different from previous events to provide finality.

    It awaited the era of explaining everything in entirely physicalist terms to form a “consensus” (does it even exist now?).

    It’s also a consensus that Americans are fat because of food availability 🙂

    Expert consensuses in late-Western culture probably shouldn’t be given too much attention.

    Incidentally, returning the focus to willpower and personal agency should be welcome to anyone unhappy with the way things are going. These late-Western attempts to explain everything as having nothing to do with human agency lead to despair.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Incidentally, returning the focus to willpower and personal agency should be welcome to anyone unhappy with the way things are going. These late-Western attempts to explain everything as having nothing to do with human agency lead to despair.
     
    Well, when in lycee I was participating in National History Olympiad, during the finale I had to write the essay titled "The role of eminent personalities in the Late Roman Republic external politics". Apparently a concept sold to young people so they can dream about great achievements. Should I imagine I am in lycee again?

    The human agency exist today too, but hidden on the heights of power. You, who allegedly visited those heights, and deduced that people there are different than below, should know this.
    Since populations are now greater than ever, yet the heights of power did not became the plains of power, it is understandable that the great majority of people lost the sense of their agency. Pretending that it is not like that would be a lie. Do you want to sell a lie...?

  825. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    First of all, my theory has important differences to the standard cyclical theory. It describes the exact spiritual and psychological mechanism by which a civilization falls; boredom.

    This is a major - and rather stunning - contribution to the field :)

    More seriously, I'm not suggesting some "natural" cyclical event, incomprehensible in it's own way like all forces of nature - but something richly significant for human psychology, spirituality, and life purpose.

    Secondly, I'm not discounting external factors, but Rome was able to not just ward off these external factors but thrive for centuries until one day - it couldn't. Or just didn't want to.

    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world's most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat - to go down and stay down - and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it's also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist - life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what. Similarly, Jews, defeated and kicked out of their land, refused to admit defeat (as a corporate body, a nation).

    Will is what matters.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world’s most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat – to go down and stay down – and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it’s also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist – life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what.

    You should be a great fan of German idealist philosophy with this stress on will… I mean “will to power” is Nietzschean, but your object of it – history – is Hegelian. You see history in Hegelian terms, as great succession of superstructures of “Will to Power”, which is your Hegelian Geist.

    But you are wrong on Punic Wars. Punic Wars were primarily wars of attrition, Rome was simply able to absorb greater harm than Carthage due to its greater and healthier population (unlike Carthage, Rome banned cousin marriages) which outmatched monetary resources of Carthage, a merchant city which relied mainly on mercenaries. There was a time when Carthage had a citizen army too, but after great losses of these citizens during Sicilian Wars with Greeks they moved to primarily mercenary model of warfare.

    Carthaginians never really outmatched Romans in terms of fielded armies… But there was “what” which would have forced Rome to its knees, a “What ” which Hannibal had been unable to accomplish – a successful siege of Rome. But to defend Rome as a city was something totally different than defending Mediterranean, or Imperium Romanum, itself – 500 years later.

    During the Third Punic War, Carthaginians had all the “will to power” they could muster – and still were unable to successfully defend their city.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Walter Scheidel claims that the Carthaginian base population and military mobilization rates were roughly comparable to Rome. What distinguishes the former from the latter was Carthage’s heavy reliance on mercenaries as opposed to citizenry. This made Rome more organizationally robust and demographically resilient. Carthage enjoyed a tactical superiority owing to the genius of Hannibal; but Rome’s structural advantages were too strong to overcome.

    Scheidel also states in his book that only Alexander had an opportunity to conquer Rome; but that window closed fairly quickly. Rome was too protected by its geography and demographic depth to be conquered by any other political entity.

    I agree that one needs to take a multi-varied approach to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Will to power could be one factor; but it is difficult to measure and somewhat vague; thus susceptible to ad-how rationalization. How would one scientifically ascertain Rome’s will to power vis-a-vis Carthage? People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

  826. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    First of all, my theory has important differences to the standard cyclical theory. It describes the exact spiritual and psychological mechanism by which a civilization falls; boredom.

    This is a major - and rather stunning - contribution to the field :)

    More seriously, I'm not suggesting some "natural" cyclical event, incomprehensible in it's own way like all forces of nature - but something richly significant for human psychology, spirituality, and life purpose.

    Secondly, I'm not discounting external factors, but Rome was able to not just ward off these external factors but thrive for centuries until one day - it couldn't. Or just didn't want to.

    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world's most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat - to go down and stay down - and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it's also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist - life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what. Similarly, Jews, defeated and kicked out of their land, refused to admit defeat (as a corporate body, a nation).

    Will is what matters.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

    His point is that you have only one theory for everything and everyone, which is therefore more likely to be about you than to fit literally all the rest of existence.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think monism is a natural intellectual tendency. One feels intellectually dissatisfied, as if one didn't really get to the heart of the matter, until one has reached monism. One sees it throughout intellectual history.

    But really, I'm not necessarily denying other factors, but trying to bring back attention to a factor that I consider neglected and hugely important - the spiritual factor. Our time ignores that, and whether or not it's the "one ring" of explanatory factors (I think it is), it contributes to practically every imaginable situation and is, today, utterly neglected.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

  827. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    His point is that you have only one theory for everything and everyone, which is therefore more likely to be about you than to fit literally all the rest of existence.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I think monism is a natural intellectual tendency. One feels intellectually dissatisfied, as if one didn’t really get to the heart of the matter, until one has reached monism. One sees it throughout intellectual history.

    But really, I’m not necessarily denying other factors, but trying to bring back attention to a factor that I consider neglected and hugely important – the spiritual factor. Our time ignores that, and whether or not it’s the “one ring” of explanatory factors (I think it is), it contributes to practically every imaginable situation and is, today, utterly neglected.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    And, yes, Hegelianism is monism.

    But you simply anthropomorfizes this "will to power" to something crossing over generations, so it can be "bored". Again, it is like Hegelian Geist, who seeks to affirm itself through history on the way to absolute knowledge etc... in your case, on the way to "absolute boredom".

    Boredom cannot appear in anything greater than the span of human life. It cannot be thus a civilizational factor, as civilization encompasses different generations.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    You're tendency isn't monism, but that might be your name for your delusion of ventriloquising everyone else so you don't have to own your own voice.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  828. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Also, for centuries the causes of Rome's fall were argued about - indicating that external forces were not seen as sufficiently different from previous events to provide finality.

    It awaited the era of explaining everything in entirely physicalist terms to form a "consensus" (does it even exist now?).

    It's also a consensus that Americans are fat because of food availability :)

    Expert consensuses in late-Western culture probably shouldn't be given too much attention.

    Incidentally, returning the focus to willpower and personal agency should be welcome to anyone unhappy with the way things are going. These late-Western attempts to explain everything as having nothing to do with human agency lead to despair.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Incidentally, returning the focus to willpower and personal agency should be welcome to anyone unhappy with the way things are going. These late-Western attempts to explain everything as having nothing to do with human agency lead to despair.

    Well, when in lycee I was participating in National History Olympiad, during the finale I had to write the essay titled “The role of eminent personalities in the Late Roman Republic external politics”. Apparently a concept sold to young people so they can dream about great achievements. Should I imagine I am in lycee again?

    The human agency exist today too, but hidden on the heights of power. You, who allegedly visited those heights, and deduced that people there are different than below, should know this.
    Since populations are now greater than ever, yet the heights of power did not became the plains of power, it is understandable that the great majority of people lost the sense of their agency. Pretending that it is not like that would be a lie. Do you want to sell a lie…?

  829. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think monism is a natural intellectual tendency. One feels intellectually dissatisfied, as if one didn't really get to the heart of the matter, until one has reached monism. One sees it throughout intellectual history.

    But really, I'm not necessarily denying other factors, but trying to bring back attention to a factor that I consider neglected and hugely important - the spiritual factor. Our time ignores that, and whether or not it's the "one ring" of explanatory factors (I think it is), it contributes to practically every imaginable situation and is, today, utterly neglected.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

    And, yes, Hegelianism is monism.

    But you simply anthropomorfizes this “will to power” to something crossing over generations, so it can be “bored”. Again, it is like Hegelian Geist, who seeks to affirm itself through history on the way to absolute knowledge etc… in your case, on the way to “absolute boredom”.

    Boredom cannot appear in anything greater than the span of human life. It cannot be thus a civilizational factor, as civilization encompasses different generations.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You're not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.

    To not let this crush your spirit, but to continue raising armies and resisting, is an astonishing examples of human stubbornness and a foretaste of what made Rome so formidable. At the time of the Germanic invasions, nothing like this spirit was even conceivable - the Romans themselves knew it. Read Tacitus encomiums on the martial vigor and hardihood of the Germanic tribes as compared to the effete, decadent Romans.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary. Didn't German philosophy come to see will as primary? Towards the end, Nietzsche was basically raving and ranting about how in a world without objective value, the task was simply to "will" value out of thin air (the ubermensch creates values).

    But this is already decadence - a culture that is desperately trying to regain lost vitality may well emphasize will as primary, not understanding that will is a second order effect of something it has completely lost touch with (objective sources of value, like morality, goodness, spirit, etc).

    And Hegel - didn't he discount human agency in favor of the magisterial - but impersonal - movements of Geist across time, in an almost inevitable fashion?

    That being said, German idealistic philosophers were onto something quite correct even if they did not quite grab hold of it, and would be an improvement on today's physicalism (yes, I've decided to start calling it that).



    Maybe you should be in your lycee again, you late-modern, world-weary, cynic :) This is why you right-wing types get nowhere, you may talk about being masculine and strong, but deep down you're decadents without will to power.- because, of course, you're disconnected from the sources of objective value, and have absorbed the nihilistic modern world view even more thoroughly than leftists.

    As for mass society and the character of people in power depriving us of agency - and btw, my description of the people in power is precisely that they don't share your world-weary cynicism but believe in human agency :) - that's just another manifestation of modern nihilism.

    I had a big argument with Dmitry about that last winter. In fact, we may not have large scale political agency, but our actions on a local scale can have dramatic ripple effects, and are significant.

    That is a very late-modern atomistic view :)

    You don't think attitudes can span generations, but that each generation starts fresh?

    Human beings are collectives, each mind affects every other mind - parents certainly affect children's attitudes, who in turn affect theirs, and historical events affect attitudes.

    For instance, if my parents generations achieved something, this will impact my attitude in that domain. Recent history of my group will affect my attitudes today.

    For instance, the 19th century humiliations of Chinese has a direct bearing on the awakened will to power of Chinese in the following generation who didn't experience it. The 20th century crimes of Germans lowered the will to power in the following generation of Germans.

    Certainly, "will to power" can extend across generations, and events in one generation can dramatically impact it's rise or fall for multiple successive generations.

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well - the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development - the 19th century didn't just start fresh :)

    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current - and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this "baggage" and become a decadent, or the opposite :)

    Not that a the psychological or spiritual mechanisms are known to us, and there is probably a mystery there to be unraveled - but certainly the "atom" theory of humanity is wrong.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, in strictly philosophical terms you don't anthropomorfizes as much as hyposthasizes "the will to power". But I have chosen the former due to better connection to "boredom".

  830. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    The Punic Wars were a much worse threat than the Germanic tribes, and are actually one of the world’s most astonishing examples of sheer bullheaded refusal to admit defeat – to go down and stay down – and the ability of a determined adversary with an unbroken will to power to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

    Incidentally, it’s also an excellent demonstration of my claim that will to power is the determinative factor, and not ability. The Romans were outmatched by the Carthaginians.

    External pressures always exist – life is a battlefield. External factors contrite, but loss of will determines the outcome. One can always rebuild or continue fighting if the will is there.

    When Rome still had the will, it refused to admit defeat by Hannibal no matter what.
     

    You should be a great fan of German idealist philosophy with this stress on will... I mean "will to power" is Nietzschean, but your object of it - history - is Hegelian. You see history in Hegelian terms, as great succession of superstructures of "Will to Power", which is your Hegelian Geist.

    But you are wrong on Punic Wars. Punic Wars were primarily wars of attrition, Rome was simply able to absorb greater harm than Carthage due to its greater and healthier population (unlike Carthage, Rome banned cousin marriages) which outmatched monetary resources of Carthage, a merchant city which relied mainly on mercenaries. There was a time when Carthage had a citizen army too, but after great losses of these citizens during Sicilian Wars with Greeks they moved to primarily mercenary model of warfare.

    Carthaginians never really outmatched Romans in terms of fielded armies... But there was "what" which would have forced Rome to its knees, a "What " which Hannibal had been unable to accomplish - a successful siege of Rome. But to defend Rome as a city was something totally different than defending Mediterranean, or Imperium Romanum, itself - 500 years later.

    During the Third Punic War, Carthaginians had all the "will to power" they could muster - and still were unable to successfully defend their city.

    Replies: @Yahya

    Walter Scheidel claims that the Carthaginian base population and military mobilization rates were roughly comparable to Rome. What distinguishes the former from the latter was Carthage’s heavy reliance on mercenaries as opposed to citizenry. This made Rome more organizationally robust and demographically resilient. Carthage enjoyed a tactical superiority owing to the genius of Hannibal; but Rome’s structural advantages were too strong to overcome.

    Scheidel also states in his book that only Alexander had an opportunity to conquer Rome; but that window closed fairly quickly. Rome was too protected by its geography and demographic depth to be conquered by any other political entity.

    I agree that one needs to take a multi-varied approach to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Will to power could be one factor; but it is difficult to measure and somewhat vague; thus susceptible to ad-how rationalization. How would one scientifically ascertain Rome’s will to power vis-a-vis Carthage? People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Yahya

    I defer to Scheidel here, who is pretty nice person (I met him once), with a note that Carthage had bad experience (too many loses) with its citizen army during earlier Greco-Punic wars on Sicily (in a sense, Punic Wars started actually as continuation of these earlier wars, as Rome joined the game.)


    People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.
     
    During II Second Punic War, Carthaginians did not field their maximal "Will to Power"; Hannibal wasn't getting as much help as he wanted from metropolis, and Hasdrubal was losing in Spain. Apparently not the entire Carthaginian oligarchy identified with Barkids - some were afraid they would become too powerful after too big a victory over Rome.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.
     
    I actually like alternative history very much. One of was written by historian of antiquity, Alexander Demand, Ungeschehene Geschichte. He also wrote a book reviewing the Fall of Rome, "Der Fall Roms. Die Auflösung des römischen Reiches im Urteil der Nachwelt."
    My favourite alternative history is perhaps Niall Ferguson "Virtual History: Alternatives and Counterfactuals."
    Taleb book "Antifragile' is also interesting.

    The alternative history in action is perhaps "The Miracle of House of Brandenburg" through reversal in Russia due to death of empress Elisabeth

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_House_of_Brandenburg

    , @Wokechoke
    @Yahya

    The Romans used allies much more effectively.

    Hannibal almost got the Gauls to repeat the earliest sack of Rome. I’d hazard a guess that the Romans paid off chieftains in Gaul to not join up with Hannibal.

    We tend to overlook how powerful the Gaulish mercenaries were in the Hannibal story and how other Celts sided with Rome.

    Look at how hesitant the Chinese are right now. They ought to be sending in Infantry to Ukraine from secure Russian basecamps to rock the US back on its heels. But they hesitate. When the US comes for them it’ll be like Caesar at Alesia.

  831. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    he was anticipating “a psychedelic assault on his senses”.
     
    I think I am too straight-laced to enjoy a phrase like that.

    @A123
    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places, and I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.

    But it really is frightening to think about. If such places took off, I might suppose that they could quickly be repurposed into mass-scale secret prisons. Perhaps, even ones where people are raised from infancy. That is when I would stop eating pigs, though I enjoy it.

    @Dmitry
    Yes, I have heard of the silver fox experiments, and those cages do look a little bare. Wikipedia article is interesting, but I sometimes wish I could ask a little more about it. Wonder what would have happened trying to do the same thing with dogs, on the same scale, either for longevity or IQ. Oldest dogs live to about 30 or so, which is quite a bit older than the oldest ones I have known. My favorite dog ever (the oldest) only made it to 15.

    I may be a loon but I would have state-financed dog breeding, in my ideal state. And more that that, I would probably try to domesticate some of these other animals.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

    I think that the term “psychedelic” need not encompass anything to do with drugs today. The work of a very steady hand and a sober eye can also be described as such (colorful, intricate designs, mesmerising content):

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    https://happymag.tv/an-essential-item-in-your-next-home-studio-wrap-yourselves-up-in-the-psychedelic-handmade-carpets-of-faig-ahmed/

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    , @songbird
    @Mr. Hack

    Off the top of my head, my favorite phrase that I have heard in the past 6 weeks or so is "Bosch-Dalí" to negatively describe one particularly bad work of modern art. ( I think it must have been that King statue on the Common.)

    But perhaps it is not so clever, if you know that Bosch was an influence on Dalí.

  832. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    And, yes, Hegelianism is monism.

    But you simply anthropomorfizes this "will to power" to something crossing over generations, so it can be "bored". Again, it is like Hegelian Geist, who seeks to affirm itself through history on the way to absolute knowledge etc... in your case, on the way to "absolute boredom".

    Boredom cannot appear in anything greater than the span of human life. It cannot be thus a civilizational factor, as civilization encompasses different generations.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective

    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You’re not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.

    To not let this crush your spirit, but to continue raising armies and resisting, is an astonishing examples of human stubbornness and a foretaste of what made Rome so formidable. At the time of the Germanic invasions, nothing like this spirit was even conceivable – the Romans themselves knew it. Read Tacitus encomiums on the martial vigor and hardihood of the Germanic tribes as compared to the effete, decadent Romans.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary. Didn’t German philosophy come to see will as primary? Towards the end, Nietzsche was basically raving and ranting about how in a world without objective value, the task was simply to “will” value out of thin air (the ubermensch creates values).

    But this is already decadence – a culture that is desperately trying to regain lost vitality may well emphasize will as primary, not understanding that will is a second order effect of something it has completely lost touch with (objective sources of value, like morality, goodness, spirit, etc).

    And Hegel – didn’t he discount human agency in favor of the magisterial – but impersonal – movements of Geist across time, in an almost inevitable fashion?

    That being said, German idealistic philosophers were onto something quite correct even if they did not quite grab hold of it, and would be an improvement on today’s physicalism (yes, I’ve decided to start calling it that).

    [MORE]

    Maybe you should be in your lycee again, you late-modern, world-weary, cynic 🙂 This is why you right-wing types get nowhere, you may talk about being masculine and strong, but deep down you’re decadents without will to power.- because, of course, you’re disconnected from the sources of objective value, and have absorbed the nihilistic modern world view even more thoroughly than leftists.

    As for mass society and the character of people in power depriving us of agency – and btw, my description of the people in power is precisely that they don’t share your world-weary cynicism but believe in human agency 🙂 – that’s just another manifestation of modern nihilism.

    I had a big argument with Dmitry about that last winter. In fact, we may not have large scale political agency, but our actions on a local scale can have dramatic ripple effects, and are significant.

    That is a very late-modern atomistic view 🙂

    You don’t think attitudes can span generations, but that each generation starts fresh?

    Human beings are collectives, each mind affects every other mind – parents certainly affect children’s attitudes, who in turn affect theirs, and historical events affect attitudes.

    For instance, if my parents generations achieved something, this will impact my attitude in that domain. Recent history of my group will affect my attitudes today.

    For instance, the 19th century humiliations of Chinese has a direct bearing on the awakened will to power of Chinese in the following generation who didn’t experience it. The 20th century crimes of Germans lowered the will to power in the following generation of Germans.

    Certainly, “will to power” can extend across generations, and events in one generation can dramatically impact it’s rise or fall for multiple successive generations.

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well – the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development – the 19th century didn’t just start fresh 🙂

    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current – and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this “baggage” and become a decadent, or the opposite 🙂

    Not that a the psychological or spiritual mechanisms are known to us, and there is probably a mystery there to be unraveled – but certainly the “atom” theory of humanity is wrong.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You’re not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.
     
    Two armies actually, at Trasimene Lake and at Cannae. Two is not such a great number. At the same time, Romans were conquering Hannibal base in Spain. Substantial factor which saved Rome too was the lack of defection of majority of Roman allies in Italy to Hannibal after Cannae.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary.
     
    So what is primary...?

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well – the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development – the 19th century didn’t just start fresh
     
    Yes, but it is dialectic where one factor influences other. So now there is a crisis in science which is already visible in the fact that many technoutopias did not realize and many serious problems are unsolved. This is obfuscated by IT developments, with delusional citizenry eagerly listening to stories of threatening AI, whereas every rational AI would focus on unsolved problems potentially threatening it - like energy problems or forecasting earthquakes (like the last one in Turkey).
    Nevertheless, this crisis of science is not a "will to power" problem - never before so much money was put in science like nowadays, which signifies a great deal of will to power.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current – and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this “baggage” and become a decadent, or the opposite
     
    You cannot inherit will to power.
    Frankly, you start reminding me about these Jews from The Oven of Akhnai story who were ready to deny God's judgment (aka "Voice from Heaven") itself, basing it on their human interpretations, eg. "Torah is not in Heaven", so God does not have anything to do with anymore. Well, at least it is clear that rabbinic Judaism expressed thus "will of power" on its own, WITHOUT God of Torah.

    Anyway, the basic problem of your theory is that in many situations no amount of will to power will provide a solution. Plus, you constantly switch between different meanings of "will to power", as agency, as hypostasis, as continuity, as lack of boredom etc. This is too general theory to ever have sense.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

  833. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    he was anticipating “a psychedelic assault on his senses”.
     
    I think I am too straight-laced to enjoy a phrase like that.

    @A123
    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places, and I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.

    But it really is frightening to think about. If such places took off, I might suppose that they could quickly be repurposed into mass-scale secret prisons. Perhaps, even ones where people are raised from infancy. That is when I would stop eating pigs, though I enjoy it.

    @Dmitry
    Yes, I have heard of the silver fox experiments, and those cages do look a little bare. Wikipedia article is interesting, but I sometimes wish I could ask a little more about it. Wonder what would have happened trying to do the same thing with dogs, on the same scale, either for longevity or IQ. Oldest dogs live to about 30 or so, which is quite a bit older than the oldest ones I have known. My favorite dog ever (the oldest) only made it to 15.

    I may be a loon but I would have state-financed dog breeding, in my ideal state. And more that that, I would probably try to domesticate some of these other animals.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @A123

    A well-designed highrise is probably safer than many other places,

    Perhaps… However, this is CCP-landia. Poor design and shoddy construction are fairly normal.

    I suspect that they are really trying to stop-loss the costs of disease, and minimize human contact and transmission risk for global pandemics. There probably is a logic to it.

    It is much more likely directed by central planners, party officials, and lead contractors trying to pocket as much as possible from the build.

    Can you imagine breakage of a poorly designed sewage system in a multi story pig farm? Now, can you envision the stairwells? Waste has to go somewhere.

    While the buildings are new and everything works perhaps it will contain Swine Flu. However, 10-20 years down the line when things stop working — Resident Evil: Porcine City.

    PEACE 😇

    • LOL: songbird
  834. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    And, yes, Hegelianism is monism.

    But you simply anthropomorfizes this "will to power" to something crossing over generations, so it can be "bored". Again, it is like Hegelian Geist, who seeks to affirm itself through history on the way to absolute knowledge etc... in your case, on the way to "absolute boredom".

    Boredom cannot appear in anything greater than the span of human life. It cannot be thus a civilizational factor, as civilization encompasses different generations.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak, @Another Polish Perspective

    Well, in strictly philosophical terms you don’t anthropomorfizes as much as hyposthasizes “the will to power”. But I have chosen the former due to better connection to “boredom”.

  835. In today’s entertainment news: (1)

    Leftist Group Rocked by Revelation That Its ‘Queer, Muslim, Multiethnic’ Equity Chief Is Really A White Lady

    The American Friends Service Committee, a hard-Left organization peddling authoritarianism and dependence upon the all-powerful state under the guise of “social justice,” was likely thrilled when Saraswati applied to be its Chief Equity, Inclusion, and Culture Officer. But then matters took a dark turn, or more precisely, a light turn.

    she is infected with the Left’s original sin: Raquel Evita Saraswati was born Rachel Elizabeth Seidel, and is as white as the native population of Switzerland.

    Saraswati, according to The Intercept, “for years has encouraged people to believe that she is a woman of color, including Latina as well as of South Asian and Arab descent.” But Raquel/Rachel’s mom, Carol Perone, was unequivocal: “I call her Rachel. I don’t know why she’s doing what she’s doing.” Perone added: “I’m German and British, and her father was Calabrese Italian. She’s chosen to live a lie, and I find that very, very sad.” Indeed.

    Welcome to the twenty-first century, when happening to be non-white is a badge of honor and whiteness is regarded as it would be if the entire nation had joined the Nation of Islam in thinking that all evil stems from the white race, an intrinsically evil people that was created in the mythic past by an evil scientist, Dr. Yaqub, on the island of Madagascar.

    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? “If you feel colored, you are colored”. Right my home boyzzz?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/02/18/leftist-group-rocked-by-revelation-that-its-queer-muslim-multiethnic-equity-chief-is-really-a-white-lady-n1671755

    • Replies: @Yahya
    @A123


    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? “If you feel colored, you are colored”. Right my home boyzzz?
     
    Feelz over reelz.

    If a woman feelz she is a man; then she be a man.

    If a white lady feelz she be colored; then she be colored.

    If an Irish-American feelz he iz German; then he be German.

    It be metafyzikal.

    Thas waz up.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @songbird
    @A123


    and her father was Calabrese Italian.
     
    Close enough?
    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Obviously you are not getting the exclusive tier Qanon dumps.

    Leaked from CIA mole the Chinese balloon operations:

    http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190702170740-trump-baby-balloon-washington-permit-july-fourth-lead-vpx-00000529.jpg

    Replies: @A123

  836. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You're not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.

    To not let this crush your spirit, but to continue raising armies and resisting, is an astonishing examples of human stubbornness and a foretaste of what made Rome so formidable. At the time of the Germanic invasions, nothing like this spirit was even conceivable - the Romans themselves knew it. Read Tacitus encomiums on the martial vigor and hardihood of the Germanic tribes as compared to the effete, decadent Romans.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary. Didn't German philosophy come to see will as primary? Towards the end, Nietzsche was basically raving and ranting about how in a world without objective value, the task was simply to "will" value out of thin air (the ubermensch creates values).

    But this is already decadence - a culture that is desperately trying to regain lost vitality may well emphasize will as primary, not understanding that will is a second order effect of something it has completely lost touch with (objective sources of value, like morality, goodness, spirit, etc).

    And Hegel - didn't he discount human agency in favor of the magisterial - but impersonal - movements of Geist across time, in an almost inevitable fashion?

    That being said, German idealistic philosophers were onto something quite correct even if they did not quite grab hold of it, and would be an improvement on today's physicalism (yes, I've decided to start calling it that).



    Maybe you should be in your lycee again, you late-modern, world-weary, cynic :) This is why you right-wing types get nowhere, you may talk about being masculine and strong, but deep down you're decadents without will to power.- because, of course, you're disconnected from the sources of objective value, and have absorbed the nihilistic modern world view even more thoroughly than leftists.

    As for mass society and the character of people in power depriving us of agency - and btw, my description of the people in power is precisely that they don't share your world-weary cynicism but believe in human agency :) - that's just another manifestation of modern nihilism.

    I had a big argument with Dmitry about that last winter. In fact, we may not have large scale political agency, but our actions on a local scale can have dramatic ripple effects, and are significant.

    That is a very late-modern atomistic view :)

    You don't think attitudes can span generations, but that each generation starts fresh?

    Human beings are collectives, each mind affects every other mind - parents certainly affect children's attitudes, who in turn affect theirs, and historical events affect attitudes.

    For instance, if my parents generations achieved something, this will impact my attitude in that domain. Recent history of my group will affect my attitudes today.

    For instance, the 19th century humiliations of Chinese has a direct bearing on the awakened will to power of Chinese in the following generation who didn't experience it. The 20th century crimes of Germans lowered the will to power in the following generation of Germans.

    Certainly, "will to power" can extend across generations, and events in one generation can dramatically impact it's rise or fall for multiple successive generations.

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well - the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development - the 19th century didn't just start fresh :)

    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current - and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this "baggage" and become a decadent, or the opposite :)

    Not that a the psychological or spiritual mechanisms are known to us, and there is probably a mystery there to be unraveled - but certainly the "atom" theory of humanity is wrong.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You’re not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.

    Two armies actually, at Trasimene Lake and at Cannae. Two is not such a great number. At the same time, Romans were conquering Hannibal base in Spain. Substantial factor which saved Rome too was the lack of defection of majority of Roman allies in Italy to Hannibal after Cannae.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary.

    So what is primary…?

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well – the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development – the 19th century didn’t just start fresh

    Yes, but it is dialectic where one factor influences other. So now there is a crisis in science which is already visible in the fact that many technoutopias did not realize and many serious problems are unsolved. This is obfuscated by IT developments, with delusional citizenry eagerly listening to stories of threatening AI, whereas every rational AI would focus on unsolved problems potentially threatening it – like energy problems or forecasting earthquakes (like the last one in Turkey).
    Nevertheless, this crisis of science is not a “will to power” problem – never before so much money was put in science like nowadays, which signifies a great deal of will to power.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Another Polish Perspective

    The thing that probably limited Hannibal is the lack of Gaulish support. Hannibal certainly had recruits from Celtic Milan and the Po Valley but he did not enjoy support from Gaul. If he’d got a Brennus to come in with a million men Rome may have been sacks by a combination of Carthage’s Generalship, Gaulish numbers and Greek engineers.

  837. @A123
    In today's entertainment news: (1)

    Leftist Group Rocked by Revelation That Its ‘Queer, Muslim, Multiethnic’ Equity Chief Is Really A White Lady

     

    The American Friends Service Committee, a hard-Left organization peddling authoritarianism and dependence upon the all-powerful state under the guise of “social justice,” was likely thrilled when Saraswati applied to be its Chief Equity, Inclusion, and Culture Officer. But then matters took a dark turn, or more precisely, a light turn.
    ...
    she is infected with the Left’s original sin: Raquel Evita Saraswati was born Rachel Elizabeth Seidel, and is as white as the native population of Switzerland.
    ...
    Saraswati, according to The Intercept, “for years has encouraged people to believe that she is a woman of color, including Latina as well as of South Asian and Arab descent.” But Raquel/Rachel’s mom, Carol Perone, was unequivocal: “I call her Rachel. I don’t know why she’s doing what she’s doing.” Perone added: “I’m German and British, and her father was Calabrese Italian. She’s chosen to live a lie, and I find that very, very sad.” Indeed.

    Welcome to the twenty-first century, when happening to be non-white is a badge of honor and whiteness is regarded as it would be if the entire nation had joined the Nation of Islam in thinking that all evil stems from the white race, an intrinsically evil people that was created in the mythic past by an evil scientist, Dr. Yaqub, on the island of Madagascar.
     
    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? "If you feel colored, you are colored". Right my home boyzzz?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/02/18/leftist-group-rocked-by-revelation-that-its-queer-muslim-multiethnic-equity-chief-is-really-a-white-lady-n1671755

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? “If you feel colored, you are colored”. Right my home boyzzz?

    Feelz over reelz.

    If a woman feelz she is a man; then she be a man.

    If a white lady feelz she be colored; then she be colored.

    If an Irish-American feelz he iz German; then he be German.

    It be metafyzikal.

    Thas waz up.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Yahya


    If a woman feelz she is a man; then she be a man.
     
    By that logic, if a guy feels he is Napoleon or Julius Caesar, then he is. Why do we think that his place is in the lunatic asylum? I hold that a guy who feels that he is a woman should be treated exactly the same as a guy who feels he is a Napoleon.
  838. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    pattern of distribution of matter or energy All information matches this
     
    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not "matter or energy" itself is information.

    DNA is not a machine code, it is the genetic information that is expressed as codons that is the code
     
    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.

    pattern is information if it can be detected. If it cannot be detected, then it is not, but only for the one who attempts the detection. It has nothing to do with it being reducible to digital code.
     
    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).

    Information is just patterns nothing else. Meaning is interpretation of these patterns, that is even more information, but a pattern being meaningful or useful is not mandatory for it to be information. The subject of information decoding or interpretation is interesting and important,
     
    This question is one of the most popular interest of the computer scientists and it relates to the extent computer science is a fundamental science. What happens in the physical world is a really a stable behavior and we interpret this as information. For engineers, you can use any stable system to process information and there is a development of computing.

    that maths are not axiomatic, is basically admitting that we fail at describing Reality in an entirely objective manner.
     
    It's not admitting mathematics is not often axiomatic or related to objectivity. It was problem for the projects to reduce mathematics to consistent formal system. Historically it could have been interpreted to support the people who believed mathematics is like a science describing things in a real world.

    what a mind is and what an animal truly is. We go back to the start of the discussion if we attempt doing it. Both are just information.
     
    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.

    What is a mind? I don't think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn't have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.

    But in the end it is all just words.

    Which are not axiomatic.
     

    It's words based on peoples' experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It's not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It's also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not “matter or energy” itself is information.

    Yes, it is the patterns that are important not what they are made of, or what they are based upon. “Matter” and “Energy” are only lexical placeholders for “phenomena” that we perceive using our senses. Our senses are dependent upon biochemical/biophysical receptors. Basically, we perceive “matter & energy” patterns / information and then integrate it and remodel it as “reality”. The use of different scientific equipment to increase the scope of information gathered and analyzed when examining the nature of Reality doesn’t change the fact that ultimately the “reality” exists in the brain of a sentient being that is witnessing it.

    [MORE]

    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.

    Yes, I agree that it contains a pattern that once transcribed into RNA is decoded by the ribosomes. It also contains elements regulating its transcription. It is a complex and dynamic program.

    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).

    Yes. But I dislike your use of the word “machine”. I would prefer using “natural code” instead. Also, let’s keep in mind that there might be more subtle levels of information that are not directly detectable through our senses or our scientific equipment and that we would not therefore consider “physical”. An example would be different subatomic/quantum interactions. There is recently more information appearing about possible connections between biology and quantum physics. So basically, we cannot rule that there are subtle quantic patterns linked with sentience that might somehow continue after the demise of the “physical” body. Quantum fields “fill the space” in all directions. There is no true Void to be found. We are literally woven from these fields in every subatomic particle of our body. Therefore, in a most literal sense, our being transcends what most people see as “physical matter”. “Physical” is also another lexical “placeholder”. So is “death”.

    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.

    Animals are complex dynamic systems of interdependent patterns of “mater” and “energy”. This is self-evident. Therefore, animals are information in its most basic sense. There is nothing inherently “physical” to be found anywhere in the whole Cosmos that is independent from information. В начале было Слово and all that.

    What is a mind? I don’t think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn’t have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.

    I agree.

    It’s words based on peoples’ experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It’s not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It’s also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.

    Yes. And we cannot live without an epistemological representation of the Real. If we let go of words completely we become insane and unfit for survival in society. But we should not make idols out of words (words “Russia” and “Ukraine” come to mind as particularly sinister “idols” that demand human sacrifice).

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.

    Yes. And although their hypotheses and theories might be somewhat outdated, they had remarkable insights about the nature of Reality and its interdependence with our perception and cognition.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mind-indian-buddhism/

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    words “Russia” and “Ukraine” come to mind as particularly sinister “idols” that demand human sacrifice)
     
    It seems like predictable result of the postsoviet system. I wrote something like this many times in the forum for years.

    If you don't live in a developed country, your government are usually a kind of mafia clans (although this is just an analogy, as it can be also mafia-secret police clans). But in postsoviet culture, mafia -secret police clans are sophisticated, using language of the European nation state. So, to criticize the government, can be presented as indication of being anti-social, traitor, supporter of hostile countries etc. Ignoring this political culture, the result is, like to say to African Americans they shouldn't criticize leaders of the Bloods and the Crips,.

    I didn't ask Turkish people, but I wonder if there is something similar. Only traitors can criticize Erdogan and the construction industry. Living burial under the earthquake is the sign of the loyal patriot.

    Although even in countries where criticizing your leaders is socially acceptable and expected (e.g. Latin America), doesn't exactly convert you to Switzerland.

    -

    But excluding the particular local history, what is the more optimal organization size for the society after agriculture and now industrialization?

    City-state model has been used in the times of the most cultural attainment as Renaissance Italy or the Classical Greece. But it can be correlating to more local wars, than less local wars. While the empire model is correlating with external wars that can increase in size.

    In self-reporting surveys, the most happy people in the world can be living in small islands (https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200209-what-makes-vanuatu-one-of-the-happiest-places-in-the-world). But this is lucky, where you live in a place the natural world is creating the more local scale of the society.

    American men, especially working class men, have been left behind with little hope for the “American dream” of a good family and stable job, income, and community. girls and the men paying them, benefit from the objectification of the other, at least on the surface — the girls, by profiting from the man’s isolation
     
    Gender relations today are a lot better than in 19th century if the famous writers and realism texts are accurate descriptions.

    For example, if you read Dostoevsky's diary, when he is in London. He was writing the city is flooded with child prostitutes. Women were becoming enclosed from working in the land and flood to cities and factories.

    But, Americans are usually thinking to (also in smaller quantity the industrialized countries) a social golden age of second half of the 20th century, where they were so wealthy, working class man could buy a large house and his wife doesn't need a job.

    Cultural ideal like Homer Simpson, who is a working man without education, who can buy a large house, two cars, fund three children, that have a high quality education, while wife doesn't work.

    Historically and globally after the invention of agriculture, culture ideal of Marge Simpson's lifestyle is only like an aristocratic woman or elite in other countries and times.

    It's because America was the wealthiest country in world history and also had a more equal distribution of the money compared to now.

    And other of the industrialized societies also had some of this social situation at least after the 1960s, even in the Warsaw Pact countries (although requiring the higher equality of the income than in America or Western Europe).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  839. @A123
    In today's entertainment news: (1)

    Leftist Group Rocked by Revelation That Its ‘Queer, Muslim, Multiethnic’ Equity Chief Is Really A White Lady

     

    The American Friends Service Committee, a hard-Left organization peddling authoritarianism and dependence upon the all-powerful state under the guise of “social justice,” was likely thrilled when Saraswati applied to be its Chief Equity, Inclusion, and Culture Officer. But then matters took a dark turn, or more precisely, a light turn.
    ...
    she is infected with the Left’s original sin: Raquel Evita Saraswati was born Rachel Elizabeth Seidel, and is as white as the native population of Switzerland.
    ...
    Saraswati, according to The Intercept, “for years has encouraged people to believe that she is a woman of color, including Latina as well as of South Asian and Arab descent.” But Raquel/Rachel’s mom, Carol Perone, was unequivocal: “I call her Rachel. I don’t know why she’s doing what she’s doing.” Perone added: “I’m German and British, and her father was Calabrese Italian. She’s chosen to live a lie, and I find that very, very sad.” Indeed.

    Welcome to the twenty-first century, when happening to be non-white is a badge of honor and whiteness is regarded as it would be if the entire nation had joined the Nation of Islam in thinking that all evil stems from the white race, an intrinsically evil people that was created in the mythic past by an evil scientist, Dr. Yaqub, on the island of Madagascar.
     
    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? "If you feel colored, you are colored". Right my home boyzzz?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/02/18/leftist-group-rocked-by-revelation-that-its-queer-muslim-multiethnic-equity-chief-is-really-a-white-lady-n1671755

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    and her father was Calabrese Italian.

    Close enough?

  840. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Walter Scheidel claims that the Carthaginian base population and military mobilization rates were roughly comparable to Rome. What distinguishes the former from the latter was Carthage’s heavy reliance on mercenaries as opposed to citizenry. This made Rome more organizationally robust and demographically resilient. Carthage enjoyed a tactical superiority owing to the genius of Hannibal; but Rome’s structural advantages were too strong to overcome.

    Scheidel also states in his book that only Alexander had an opportunity to conquer Rome; but that window closed fairly quickly. Rome was too protected by its geography and demographic depth to be conquered by any other political entity.

    I agree that one needs to take a multi-varied approach to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Will to power could be one factor; but it is difficult to measure and somewhat vague; thus susceptible to ad-how rationalization. How would one scientifically ascertain Rome’s will to power vis-a-vis Carthage? People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

    I defer to Scheidel here, who is pretty nice person (I met him once), with a note that Carthage had bad experience (too many loses) with its citizen army during earlier Greco-Punic wars on Sicily (in a sense, Punic Wars started actually as continuation of these earlier wars, as Rome joined the game.)

    People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.

    During II Second Punic War, Carthaginians did not field their maximal “Will to Power”; Hannibal wasn’t getting as much help as he wanted from metropolis, and Hasdrubal was losing in Spain. Apparently not the entire Carthaginian oligarchy identified with Barkids – some were afraid they would become too powerful after too big a victory over Rome.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.

    I actually like alternative history very much. One of was written by historian of antiquity, Alexander Demand, Ungeschehene Geschichte. He also wrote a book reviewing the Fall of Rome, “Der Fall Roms. Die Auflösung des römischen Reiches im Urteil der Nachwelt.”
    My favourite alternative history is perhaps Niall Ferguson “Virtual History: Alternatives and Counterfactuals.”
    Taleb book “Antifragile’ is also interesting.

    The alternative history in action is perhaps “The Miracle of House of Brandenburg” through reversal in Russia due to death of empress Elisabeth

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_House_of_Brandenburg

  841. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You're not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.

    To not let this crush your spirit, but to continue raising armies and resisting, is an astonishing examples of human stubbornness and a foretaste of what made Rome so formidable. At the time of the Germanic invasions, nothing like this spirit was even conceivable - the Romans themselves knew it. Read Tacitus encomiums on the martial vigor and hardihood of the Germanic tribes as compared to the effete, decadent Romans.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary. Didn't German philosophy come to see will as primary? Towards the end, Nietzsche was basically raving and ranting about how in a world without objective value, the task was simply to "will" value out of thin air (the ubermensch creates values).

    But this is already decadence - a culture that is desperately trying to regain lost vitality may well emphasize will as primary, not understanding that will is a second order effect of something it has completely lost touch with (objective sources of value, like morality, goodness, spirit, etc).

    And Hegel - didn't he discount human agency in favor of the magisterial - but impersonal - movements of Geist across time, in an almost inevitable fashion?

    That being said, German idealistic philosophers were onto something quite correct even if they did not quite grab hold of it, and would be an improvement on today's physicalism (yes, I've decided to start calling it that).



    Maybe you should be in your lycee again, you late-modern, world-weary, cynic :) This is why you right-wing types get nowhere, you may talk about being masculine and strong, but deep down you're decadents without will to power.- because, of course, you're disconnected from the sources of objective value, and have absorbed the nihilistic modern world view even more thoroughly than leftists.

    As for mass society and the character of people in power depriving us of agency - and btw, my description of the people in power is precisely that they don't share your world-weary cynicism but believe in human agency :) - that's just another manifestation of modern nihilism.

    I had a big argument with Dmitry about that last winter. In fact, we may not have large scale political agency, but our actions on a local scale can have dramatic ripple effects, and are significant.

    That is a very late-modern atomistic view :)

    You don't think attitudes can span generations, but that each generation starts fresh?

    Human beings are collectives, each mind affects every other mind - parents certainly affect children's attitudes, who in turn affect theirs, and historical events affect attitudes.

    For instance, if my parents generations achieved something, this will impact my attitude in that domain. Recent history of my group will affect my attitudes today.

    For instance, the 19th century humiliations of Chinese has a direct bearing on the awakened will to power of Chinese in the following generation who didn't experience it. The 20th century crimes of Germans lowered the will to power in the following generation of Germans.

    Certainly, "will to power" can extend across generations, and events in one generation can dramatically impact it's rise or fall for multiple successive generations.

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well - the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development - the 19th century didn't just start fresh :)

    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current - and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this "baggage" and become a decadent, or the opposite :)

    Not that a the psychological or spiritual mechanisms are known to us, and there is probably a mystery there to be unraveled - but certainly the "atom" theory of humanity is wrong.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current – and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this “baggage” and become a decadent, or the opposite

    You cannot inherit will to power.
    Frankly, you start reminding me about these Jews from The Oven of Akhnai story who were ready to deny God’s judgment (aka “Voice from Heaven”) itself, basing it on their human interpretations, eg. “Torah is not in Heaven”, so God does not have anything to do with anymore. Well, at least it is clear that rabbinic Judaism expressed thus “will of power” on its own, WITHOUT God of Torah.

    Anyway, the basic problem of your theory is that in many situations no amount of will to power will provide a solution. Plus, you constantly switch between different meanings of “will to power”, as agency, as hypostasis, as continuity, as lack of boredom etc. This is too general theory to ever have sense.

    • Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I actually agree with you that you cannot inherit will to power - or lack of it. Haven't I made clear I am not a genetic determinist but believe in agency :)

    But you can inherit a cultural tradition, a historical memory, a philosophy or world view - and these things can affect your will to power.

    Anyways don't have time to write now will write more later.

  842. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    And someone coming at the end of a particular line of cultural or intellectual development inevitably inherits, and is shaped by, attitudes and views that originated in the distant past and took centuries to reach their current – and yet he, coming at the very end, may inherit this “baggage” and become a decadent, or the opposite
     
    You cannot inherit will to power.
    Frankly, you start reminding me about these Jews from The Oven of Akhnai story who were ready to deny God's judgment (aka "Voice from Heaven") itself, basing it on their human interpretations, eg. "Torah is not in Heaven", so God does not have anything to do with anymore. Well, at least it is clear that rabbinic Judaism expressed thus "will of power" on its own, WITHOUT God of Torah.

    Anyway, the basic problem of your theory is that in many situations no amount of will to power will provide a solution. Plus, you constantly switch between different meanings of "will to power", as agency, as hypostasis, as continuity, as lack of boredom etc. This is too general theory to ever have sense.

    Replies: @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    I actually agree with you that you cannot inherit will to power – or lack of it. Haven’t I made clear I am not a genetic determinist but believe in agency 🙂

    But you can inherit a cultural tradition, a historical memory, a philosophy or world view – and these things can affect your will to power.

    Anyways don’t have time to write now will write more later.

  843. @Another Polish Perspective
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak


    Wait a second, Hannibal crushed and annihilated multiple Roman armies in Italy itself, and had free run of the peninsula, and the Romans could do nothing to stop him. You’re not characterizing it correctly nor sufficiently appreciating how astonishing this was.
     
    Two armies actually, at Trasimene Lake and at Cannae. Two is not such a great number. At the same time, Romans were conquering Hannibal base in Spain. Substantial factor which saved Rome too was the lack of defection of majority of Roman allies in Italy to Hannibal after Cannae.

    As for the German philosophers, I differ from them in that I see willpower as a second order effect of spiritual factors, and not as primary.
     
    So what is primary...?

    Cultures clearly follow an arc of development, as well – the intellectual developments of 18th century Europe contributed to the intellectual developments of the 19th century in a continuous and logical line of development – the 19th century didn’t just start fresh
     
    Yes, but it is dialectic where one factor influences other. So now there is a crisis in science which is already visible in the fact that many technoutopias did not realize and many serious problems are unsolved. This is obfuscated by IT developments, with delusional citizenry eagerly listening to stories of threatening AI, whereas every rational AI would focus on unsolved problems potentially threatening it - like energy problems or forecasting earthquakes (like the last one in Turkey).
    Nevertheless, this crisis of science is not a "will to power" problem - never before so much money was put in science like nowadays, which signifies a great deal of will to power.

    https://www.amazon.com/End-Science-Knowledge-Twilight-Scientific/dp/0465065929

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    The thing that probably limited Hannibal is the lack of Gaulish support. Hannibal certainly had recruits from Celtic Milan and the Po Valley but he did not enjoy support from Gaul. If he’d got a Brennus to come in with a million men Rome may have been sacks by a combination of Carthage’s Generalship, Gaulish numbers and Greek engineers.

  844. @Yahya
    @Ivashka the fool


    1) Out of Africa exit of the modern (Cro Magnon) men is just a hypothesis, although a very popular one for all the bad reasons (mainly antiracism as “we are family”).
     
    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog "West Hunter" you'll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    but we might have branched out before the period of out of Africa exit (ca. – 40K years).

     

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    The Out of Africa hypothesis is a model for the origin and dispersal of modern humans. The hypothesis contends that humans evolved in East Africa, dispersing to populate the rest of the world from c.70,000 years ago, replacing, rather than interbreeding with, the archaic hominins that were resident outside of Africa. Disagreements exist over the timing and routes of dispersals, however, the major contention, which brings the hypothesis into competition with the multiregional model, is whether modern humans interbred with the archaic populations that they eventually replaced, such as Neanderthals.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118584538.ieba0357#:~:text=The%20Out%20of%20Africa%20hypothesis,were%20resident%20outside%20of%20Africa.

     

    Some put it earlier at 100,000-130,000 years ago. David Reich places it at 50K years.

    Only mutagens increase the production of novel alleles.

     

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    3) Given that our phenotype has already been selected through revolution, most of novel mutations are detrimental. They do not contribute to an increased fitness of population. They would not be selected for under natural conditions.

     

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    C&H go into detail about how various alleles were introduced following the agricultural revolution; some of whom were selected for adapting to farming life. For example, the allelle SLC24A5 which regulates skin color was introduced 5,800 years ago; and proceeded to make a rapid sweep throughout Europe, Middle East and to a lesser extent India because it allowed the skin to absorb a greater amount of UV rays and convert them to vitamins. The agricultural diet was short on Vitamin D due to a reduction in fruit intake; and the forces of evolution proceeded to make up for this deficiency by lightening our skin color. There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.


    The claims made by the authors that “all beneficial alleles” in the modern human populations are derived from these genomic sequences inherited from our extinct cousins is a complete, undiluted and utter bullshit.
     
    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal's beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would've been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    The key property of an advantageous allele is that its frequency tends to increase with time, usually because it aids the bearer in some way. In a stable population, this means that the number of copies in the next generation is (on average) larger than the number in the current generation. If the average number of copies in the next generation were one and a quarter times larger than in the first, we would say that the allele had a selective advantage of 25 percent. As favorable alleles go, 25 percent is a very large advantage, although not unprecedented.

    J. B. S. Haldane, the great British geneticist (1892-1964), found a systematic way of adding up all these probabilities, and his method yields a surprisingly simple answer. If the allele confers an advantage s, its chance of going all the way is 2s. In a stable population, a single copy of an allele with a 10 percent fitness advantage has a 20 percent chance of eventually becoming universal.

    We’re not saying that the advent of agriculture somehow called forth mutations from the vasty deep that fitted people to the new order of things. Mutations are random, and as always, the overwhelming majority of them had neutral or negative effects. But more mutations occurred in large populations, some of them beneficial. Increased population size increased the supply of beneficial mutations just as buying many lottery tickets increases your chance of winning the prize.
     

    -----------

    8) Both authors are anthropologists, not evolution biologists, and it shows. When it comes to living beings, biology is the basis, everything else is the superstructure.

     

    The book was intended for a popular audience; so they cut down on technicalities and jargon. Greg Cochran runs a blog called West Hunter: https://westhunt.wordpress.com/ and if you email him he can respond to your objections in a more technical manner (though he is cranky, so be warned). Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran's thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    Replies: @Sean, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Ivashka the fool

    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog “West Hunter” you’ll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.

    I think that their personal convictions are unimportant. If they work inside ROA hypothesis framework, then their analysis would be skewed and biased by the normative interpretation of human evolution. This normative interpretation is inherently progressive.

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34230096/

    [MORE]

    Those in Africa survived, others not so much. The Y haplogroups of the Eurasian genetic lineages are separated from the African ones by ~ 160k years. A lot of things could happen in 160k years. Moreover, a couple of African Y lineages are not easily connected to the common Y haplogroup tree, suggesting that African AMH have also had introgression from some paleo-anthropic population.

    Finally, it is currently unknown if Homo heidelbergensis (H. h.) arose in Africa or Eurasia.

    https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/the-history-of-our-tribe-hominini/chapter/homo-heidelbergensis/

    AMH might have evolved from H. h. everywhere H. h. was present, and then migrated back to the original land of our early hominid ancestors with most early Eurasian AMH populations being exterminated by the Toba megavolcano erruption and the African ones surviving this catastrophe.

    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.

    This is correct and impossible to argue against. But it doesn’t mean that “evolution has accelerated”. Mutation rate is rather constant.

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?

    I am thinking of the period post Neolithic Revolution and the start of the early agricultural lifestyle. Make it more or less Natufian Culture.

    I have never written that the phenotype has stopped changing, only that evolution did not accelerate as AP implied in his earlier comments. As I wrote: mutation rate is constant, but we have population bottlenecks and of course as both you and AP correctly pointed out, the increase in population with the agricultural lifestyle adoption. But I am more in favor of the catastrophic population bottlenecks and selection of branching phenotypes in different refugia, than selection of novel alleles through “civilized lifestyle” (whatever that might be).

    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.

    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a). I would favor the Megalithic Culture which might have carried more ancestry from the Doggerland hunter-gatherer populations that would have existed in the natural conditions of the Northern Sea / North Atlantic where a light-colored skin would have probably been most beneficial.

    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal’s beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would’ve been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:

    Yes their phrasing was a little bit strange. And Sub-Saharan Africans have also experienced introgression form archaic humans distinct from the Neanderthal and the Denisovan. Why would have Eurasian benefitted from their ancestral admixture while Afeicans wouldn’t ?

    IMHO all this talk of introgression benefits is highly speculative.

    Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran’s thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/

    I am not a specialist in the field of evolutionary biology or population genetics. Just a hobbyist, I wouldn’t dare publicly disputing the conclusions of the eminent luminaries of these scientific domains. And I also prefer being the anonymous rambling fool that I am.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool



    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.
     
    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a).
     
    I didn't get what was being referred to by those writers here, is it the Anglo-Saxon migrations maybe, or were the Saxons and the other Scandinavians who came darker than modern Germanic peoples before medieval times? Recent studies have been showing they arrived in significant numbers and replaced a lot of the population in the South, it tapers off the further North and West you go. It seems more French people came with them than was previously thought.

    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles? I see there have been various ideas over the years.

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Ivashka the fool

  845. @HeavilyMarbledSteak
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think monism is a natural intellectual tendency. One feels intellectually dissatisfied, as if one didn't really get to the heart of the matter, until one has reached monism. One sees it throughout intellectual history.

    But really, I'm not necessarily denying other factors, but trying to bring back attention to a factor that I consider neglected and hugely important - the spiritual factor. Our time ignores that, and whether or not it's the "one ring" of explanatory factors (I think it is), it contributes to practically every imaginable situation and is, today, utterly neglected.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Leaves No Shadow

    You’re tendency isn’t monism, but that might be your name for your delusion of ventriloquising everyone else so you don’t have to own your own voice.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Leaves No Shadow

    There might be some truth in this charge of ventriloquism of HMS; he will often eagerly agree with you if such an opportunity offers itself. Plus, this tendency of his of universalizing everything so he doesn't have his own stake in something too visible. Even this "will to power" newest concept is like trying to move everyone else [will] around him but he will just contemplate.

  846. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    Evolution is stochastic because what it selects as a novel allele is drawn from a random process of mutation in a given population. When a population increases, then also increases the total number of mutations which can be selected if they allow for a greater fitness of a given population in a given environment...Agriculture provides for feeding more people than hunting and gathering. Therefore it increases the total population and the total number of mutations that can be selected if they fit with the agricultural lifestyle
     
    Correct.

    But this is hardly an accelerated Evolution, it is just an enlargement of the pool of selectable mutations.
     
    Which, in the presence of a radically different environment, produces accelerated evolution due to environmental pressure.

    And the traits selected by the agricultural lifestyle cannot be considered as all entirely positive and universally good
     
    On balance they seem to have been though. People became more cooperative, more able to navigate increasingly complex social interactions due to greater population density, more capable of future-orientation and planning the mechanisms of planting, harvesting, planning for famines, etc.

    Moving beyond primitive hunter-gathers, pastoralists who domesticated livestock, leaned to ride the horse and manage the concomitant technology, established wide-ranging trade networks and hierarchies, also underwent significant positive evolutionary changes.

    We know that during the transition to agricultural lifestyle, immediately after the Neolithic Revolution, people become shorter, more sickly, with a lower brain volume compared to the megafauna hunters and had not have an increase in their life expectancy. We know that they suffered great many dietetary deficiencies.
     
    People who don't hunt megafauna can indeed be smaller. And brain size correlates with body size. This doesn't mean that elephants or for that matter Neanderthals (who were bigger and had correspondingly larger brains than Homo Sapiens) are smarter than we are.

    The reduced protein intake combined with increased cognitive demands may have forced agricultural people to evolve more efficient brains. With later urbanization these advantages could be further maximized and enabled an explosion in cognitive power.

    The brain of Albert Einstein was of average overall size for modern humans (indeed, smaller than the mean), that is - it was much smaller than for a hunter-gatherer from 20,000 years ago. Was the hunter-gatherer smarter? No. Einstein's brain was organized in a way that maximized its performance without increasing its overall size:

    https://www.science.org/content/article/closer-look-einsteins-brain

    A wolf has a 10 – 15% higher brain volume than an average dog of similar stature
     
    Yes, and a wolf lives a much more complex life than does a lapdog. It's the opposite for hunter-gatherers versus modern humans.

    A wolf is a generalist predator living in the changing and complex natural environment, a dog lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans. A modern human also lives in a more predictable artificial environment that has been shaped by humans through millenia
     
    The issue isn't predictability but complexity. A dog's world is more predictable but also less complex than a wolf's world.* But a post hunter-gatherer's world, while more predictable, is also far more complex than a primitive person's world.

    Modern humans have to navigate orders of magnitude more interpersonal relationships with a high degree of deft, they have to be literate, they need complex skills such as being able to drive with thousands of other humans, use various other machines, understand complex urban or suburban landscapes and understand what to obtain where, etc. A hunter-gather needs physical prowess, needs to know how to make and fix relatively simple tools, and has to remember where the game and the berries are.

    A modern human if he is eccentric and motivated enough can successfully go "tribal" and live off the land while still retaining his literacy, etc. But when for example Yanomami were brought into the modern world and tried to adjust they generally failed miserably.

    There are still some hunter--gatherers left, on the margins. You really think an Amazon tribesman, an Andaman islander, or African pygmy or bushman is wiser or smarter than we are?

    And throughout history, civilized people have encountered hunter-gathers. They did not view them as particularly wise or smart, but as primitive and dumb - at best, they were seen as having some cunning to them. In Australia, the Brits apparently hunted them like wild animals, for sport (or was that apocryphal?).

    Consider the Spaniards who came to the New World. They were capable of navigating across the ocean, of engaging in skilled diplomacy with the natives they found (both urban and primitive- tribal), reproducing their technology (i.e., making gunpowder from scratch from materials they found, fixing things), successful military strategy, and were also writing about what they saw, engaging in ideological disputes, building complex structures such as cathedrals and fortresses, appreciating and creating polyphonic music on multiple complex instruments.

    Do you really think these people were not as smart as hunter-gatherers from 20,000 years ago? That they were not more evolved than them?

    The romantic idealization of tribals is strong but is not based on reality.

    Civilization is a mixed blessing. It had made us into unnatural beings
     
    We are creatures of nature, not "unnatural." So everything we do is natural, it's simply very complex. As a mouse is more complex than a bacterium - both are equally natural. A beaver dam or bird's nest is natural. So is a cathedral or a sculpture. One should cherish all of nature, even the parts that are made by the hand of man.

    Question should be candidly asked: can we be certain that we are happier today than our Paleolithic ancestors were
     
    I wouldn't compare modern Western problems that have arisen in the last 20 years - to how people were 20,000 years ago.

    It was not only beautiful cathedrals, it was also enserfing and genocide of entire populations.
     
    Well, we know that the death rate by violence for primitive peoples was far higher than for settled populations. About 30% of hunter-gatherers have their lives ended by being stabbed or having their skulls bashed in by another hunter-gatherer. True in modern times and in the past, based on archeological excavations. This is probably an improvement over non-human animals, of course.

    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom
     
    Small, unstable species population that nearly went extinct c. 70,000 years ago was much less fit than what came later. I'm not sure that being utterly dependent on the vagaries of game access and weather or climate was "freedom."

    *A dog has a much smaller social circle than a wolf, only his family rather than a pack and no hope of becoming pack leader, and doesn't do much (but I suspect that certain breeds of dogs such as complex sheep-herding dogs are as smart as wolves).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?
     
    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.
     
    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity. Complexity can reduce unpredictability. Hunter-gatherers taking what they catch face unpredictability; managing livestock (feeding them, breeding them, caring for them, etc.) is more complex and more predictable way of obtaining meat than tracking prey. The process of saving seeds from the last harvest and planting them, building and running irrigation systems, keeping track of planting schedules (which may involve some rudimentary knowledge of astronomy) is both a more complex and a more predictable way of obtaining fruits and grains than harvesting wild ones.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.
     
    Brain organization is more important than volume: Einstein's brain was below average in size, but organized differently. We don't know how those ancient brains were structured in terms of things like cortical thickness.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  847. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I think that the term "psychedelic" need not encompass anything to do with drugs today. The work of a very steady hand and a sober eye can also be described as such (colorful, intricate designs, mesmerising content):

    https://art.ebsqart.com/art/34458/739642.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Yowza!

    https://happymag.tv/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/RUG5WP.jpg



    http://realworldgalleries.com/img_site/gallery_img/detail/melt_detail_2.jpg

  848. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    This is what we have traded our species fitness and freedom against.
    It was good for a time, until it wasn’t.
    Like a junkie enjoying a fix.
    Before the overdose.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXycGvKvj0&
    list=PLpGFUcLNHueZDw1Ch9_eaEo0mNqoq6unr&index=9&ab_channel=GigiYoung

    If you go to 12:55 and mute the sound it's great.

    The woman who narrates the video is an alien abduction evangelist, talks like a robot, and is completely bugnuts. Whoever produced it is master of video clips.

    I believe you are overthinking the textbook questions; Who am I; Where did I come from; and Where am I going?

    userid, mom's vag 9 months after she boinked dad, a grave like all other humans will answer these questions for 99.99% of all practical purposes. Your boss and the tax man don't care at all to cite two obvious examples. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    This is how it all truly works.

  849. @A123
    In today's entertainment news: (1)

    Leftist Group Rocked by Revelation That Its ‘Queer, Muslim, Multiethnic’ Equity Chief Is Really A White Lady

     

    The American Friends Service Committee, a hard-Left organization peddling authoritarianism and dependence upon the all-powerful state under the guise of “social justice,” was likely thrilled when Saraswati applied to be its Chief Equity, Inclusion, and Culture Officer. But then matters took a dark turn, or more precisely, a light turn.
    ...
    she is infected with the Left’s original sin: Raquel Evita Saraswati was born Rachel Elizabeth Seidel, and is as white as the native population of Switzerland.
    ...
    Saraswati, according to The Intercept, “for years has encouraged people to believe that she is a woman of color, including Latina as well as of South Asian and Arab descent.” But Raquel/Rachel’s mom, Carol Perone, was unequivocal: “I call her Rachel. I don’t know why she’s doing what she’s doing.” Perone added: “I’m German and British, and her father was Calabrese Italian. She’s chosen to live a lie, and I find that very, very sad.” Indeed.

    Welcome to the twenty-first century, when happening to be non-white is a badge of honor and whiteness is regarded as it would be if the entire nation had joined the Nation of Islam in thinking that all evil stems from the white race, an intrinsically evil people that was created in the mythic past by an evil scientist, Dr. Yaqub, on the island of Madagascar.
     
    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? "If you feel colored, you are colored". Right my home boyzzz?

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://pjmedia.com/culture/robert-spencer/2023/02/18/leftist-group-rocked-by-revelation-that-its-queer-muslim-multiethnic-equity-chief-is-really-a-white-lady-n1671755

    Replies: @Yahya, @songbird, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Obviously you are not getting the exclusive tier Qanon dumps.

    Leaked from CIA mole the Chinese balloon operations:

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    I will never understand your devotion to the #OnlyBiden agenda.

     
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Trump-and-angry-joe-2.jpg
     

    PEACE 😇

  850. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Obviously you are not getting the exclusive tier Qanon dumps.

    Leaked from CIA mole the Chinese balloon operations:

    http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/190702170740-trump-baby-balloon-washington-permit-july-fourth-lead-vpx-00000529.jpg

    Replies: @A123

    I will never understand your devotion to the #OnlyBiden agenda.

     

     

    PEACE 😇

  851. Oy vey !

    Only this complete upheaval of traditional gender dynamics could allow high-achieving women to “sugar baby” for working class men, and without any tangible consequence to the women. Cassie and Lainey’s experience is a microcosm of the broader cultural changes in America over the past few decades. American men, especially working class men, have been left behind with little hope for the “American dream” of a good family and stable job, income, and community. Rather, they self-medicate with drugs, alcohol, porn, and the pseudo-personal relationships offered by girls like Cassie and Lainey. Although the girls seem to be doing well while the men suffer, the girls describe the constant objectification with some queasiness. But both sides, the girls and the men paying them, benefit from the objectification of the other, at least on the surface — the girls, by profiting from the man’s isolation and dire circumstances, and the men, by sexualizing the girls. One perhaps is not worse than the other, but neither is worth celebrating

    .

    https://www.piratewires.com/p/the-sugar-babies-of-stanford-university

  852. @LatW
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    Agree. Chinese martial arts cinema is often fake and subtly emasculating
     
    It's not that it's not entertaining, it's cool to watch. But it makes one laugh more than feel at awe. What I had in mind in the original post was not really this kind of martial arts movie as the Fearless (it's well done, but I couldn't watch this kind of stuff for longer than 3 minutes).

    What I meant was kung fu movies where they actually fly, defy gravity, etc - such as in Crouching Tiger. It's entertaining, but it probably won't inspire major physical attraction in a white woman. In that movie I actually liked the older woman the most, played by Michelle Yeoh. I typically find women fighting each other repulsive and I find older women vs younger women extremely off putting (one should always help a younger woman, not "compete" with her or try to undermind her), but I did enjoy this famous scene quite a bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzkhVVFRIIg

    But see, this just highlights the problem once again - that Asian women are more attractive than Asian men (to get back to your original question). And, yes, I know Asian men are very different, some Mongol men can look really badass and ultra-masculine.

    While as katana, in addition being arguably the most artistically beautiful weapon in the world, is also arguably the most effective.

     

    I'm not an expert on this at all, but according to the Russian Spetsnaz, a katana is just a tool. It can be anything instead of it, a rifle or a survival shovel, it's about how you use it and the knowledge behind it. But of course you are right - Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    Modern MMA is significantly based on Japanese martial arts, that’s just a fact. But the Japanese themselves not best at it, Slavs, Caucasians, [..] are.
     
    For Caucasians it's almost a part of national identity now. And, yes, Eastern Slavs, too, are very into it. There is a whole WN MMA scene out there called the White Rex, the White Tsar (Beliy Tsar). And way back, right after the collapse, all the Russian guys really got into Wushu (they called it "ushu").

    They also have long rather immaculate traditions of this through the military. Have you heard of the Russian Systema?

    I enjoy watching Ukrainian and Russian spetsnaz videos (even though I probably shouldn't, it's not good to lionize violence, although it's self-defence). These are just demos (they're not hitting each other all the way):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUuyiKbSM7M

    Here's a Ukrainian one, it's pretty much the same thing (it's such a shame they are now doing this to each other, ugh! They should've all been salvaged), these are such cool performances (almost like dances, so athletic and dynamic, yet so graceful). It's called рукопашный бой (hand to hand combat or close combat). It might be outdated and old fashioned and it's not what today's spetsnaz is about, but it's just so cool (especially in black uniforms, they almost look like ninjas, except they are not as small and light, but more "grounded" / robust and more filled in but they still do all those high kicks and curls in the air and I love the parts where it's almost like dancing and where they all do it in a formation).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_t12a5cGA

    Vintage Systema footage (shows how long ago it was developed):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1FOz6VAMX0

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The perception of AMWF relationships is very different I feel in Europe vs. Anglo West. If someone like Philipp Rösler grew in America, he’s much more likely to be belittled and beset with jokes about eating dogs,

    Crouching Tiger

    Again that genre is subtly emasculating– and part of CCP’s game to keep Chinese men docile to rule over. It appears to assign superhuman qualities to wushu, giving Chinese an overinflated cultural ego, when in fact its mostly kata, like this– I don’t know how this would have the slightest appeal to white women, anymore than ping-pong or badminton players

    [MORE]

    It’s changing now, there was a MMA guy Xu Xiaodong who stumped all the fake martial artists, so guys get, you have train weights and actual grappling and striking skills, like systema

    Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    The Chinese dadao can supposedly at the right angle, break a katana in half, but its a crude broadsword. There had been more refined swords in Chinese history but simply not passed down.

    Because Japan’s history is rather like a single Chinese dynasty, so swordsmith techniques get passed down and katana is a ceremonial, decorative, training, dueling, as well as a practical battlefield weapon,

    except they are not as small and light, but more “grounded” / robust

    The gym culture in China is only nascent, but speaking from experience East Asian guys get results from lifting as well as anyone else. I’m a taller gracile version of this 😉

    • Replies: @LatW
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    The perception of AMWF relationships is very different I feel in Europe vs. Anglo West.
     
    It's not the most common combo. But I know what you mean, Europe is more laid back and balanced, America is competitive, the extremes are more pronounced, they are either somewhat cruel (racist) or overly multi-culturalist and "woke" (on the other end).

    If someone like Philipp Rösler grew in America, he’s much more likely to be belittled and beset with jokes about eating dogs
     
    What's even more annoying is how some of these same people will cuck in front of more aggressive minorities, but will be abusive towards more mellow, peaceful ones like East Asians.

    Again that genre is subtly emasculating– and part of CCP’s game to keep Chinese men docile to rule over.
     
    Seriously? CCP would do that on purpose? I would think that they would do the opposite.

    It looks like in Fearless they tried to portray the Chinese guy as the most agile and competent. I think I'm starting to see what they're trying to do in a lot of these more recent martial arts movies - the central role is usually a somewhat competent and attractive guy, but seemingly not too different from the average, who ends up having all these super qualities, who fights scarier, more "primitive" types and overcomes them, wins in the end and comes on top.

    By the way, in that Crouching Tiger scene I posted, what I liked the most about it wasn't the fighting but the interior - the absolutely amazing medieval looking hall. It is only subtly luxurious, but it still exudes something old and majestic (I love how weapons are placed on the walls almost like artwork). Interestingly, this served as an inspiration for a modern interior design example in a mountain village in China:

    https://www.theplan.it/eng/award-2020-interior/crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon-it-shows-poetic-drama-language-zhou-he

    The traditional aspects are right in front of one's eyes but not overdone, there is a sense of minimalism, yet plenty of detail, the wood exudes warmth and also provides nice, clean natural forms, the house is simultaneously old and modern, sitting harmoniously in the natural landscape.

    I don’t know how this would have the slightest appeal to white women, anymore than ping-pong or badminton players
     
    I browsed through a few martial arts movie titles and found a type who comes quite close. It is someone named Andy On. You can see him here (not the main hero but the one who is chasing the main hero, it starts at around 1:05, right after the "one man show"):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJX_PwVea6g

    He's playing the more "primitive" fighter, while the main character is supposed to be "smarter" and they are both strong in their own way. The less "primitive" character wins in the end. Andy's just more robust and more rugged looking than most of these characters. He must be in the top 1% of Chinese men in terms of athleticism.

    There is another, very different type that some young women might like, Mark Chao. He's very refined and delicate, almost elvenlike, but he can pull it off very well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCjacxgMsZs

    you have train weights and actual grappling and striking skills, like systema
     
    Systema is special in a sense that it was developed for survival in a compromised environment, such as when one has to catapult from a plane or when one has very limited means with which to fight and has to preserve strength or fight with limited strength (when injured for example). It was designed for the ultimate Cold War battle, if your plane force lands somewhere in Western Germany. It's also very beautiful, playful and looks more "relaxed".

    Nowadays, some of the Systema groups have tried to develop a mysticism around it, mostly Orthodox Christian (but I believe Slavic paganism would also be very appropriate for it). The tradition goes back before the Revolution, I think one of the guys who started it was really interested in Japan, but the Communist banned the martial arts. So this Systema was developed instead.

    The gym culture in China is only nascent, but speaking from experience East Asian guys get results from lifting as well as anyone else. I’m a taller gracile version of this 😉
     
    No kidding. Well, good for you then. 😊
  853. @Yahya
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Walter Scheidel claims that the Carthaginian base population and military mobilization rates were roughly comparable to Rome. What distinguishes the former from the latter was Carthage’s heavy reliance on mercenaries as opposed to citizenry. This made Rome more organizationally robust and demographically resilient. Carthage enjoyed a tactical superiority owing to the genius of Hannibal; but Rome’s structural advantages were too strong to overcome.

    Scheidel also states in his book that only Alexander had an opportunity to conquer Rome; but that window closed fairly quickly. Rome was too protected by its geography and demographic depth to be conquered by any other political entity.

    I agree that one needs to take a multi-varied approach to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Will to power could be one factor; but it is difficult to measure and somewhat vague; thus susceptible to ad-how rationalization. How would one scientifically ascertain Rome’s will to power vis-a-vis Carthage? People would end up saying Rome had more willpower because it won. But the Carthaginians traversed through the Death Valley that is the Alps; surely they weren’t deficient in will to power.

    N. Taleb also makes the point that we tend to come to categorical conclusions based on what happed; not realizing that history could’ve taken a different path if only a few contingent factors were slightly altered. A soldier slipping on the march; a general not sleeping well the day before a major battle etc. Some tiny alterations would’ve dramatically changed the trajectory of history.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Wokechoke

    The Romans used allies much more effectively.

    Hannibal almost got the Gauls to repeat the earliest sack of Rome. I’d hazard a guess that the Romans paid off chieftains in Gaul to not join up with Hannibal.

    We tend to overlook how powerful the Gaulish mercenaries were in the Hannibal story and how other Celts sided with Rome.

    Look at how hesitant the Chinese are right now. They ought to be sending in Infantry to Ukraine from secure Russian basecamps to rock the US back on its heels. But they hesitate. When the US comes for them it’ll be like Caesar at Alesia.

  854. @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...then there won’t be peace
     
    Right, there won't be peace. We are in the early stages of this mad war, maybe not time-wise, but in terms of the escalations that are still to come.

    Russia doesn't seem to know geographically precisely what it wants - there was the minimum goal (Donbas), it got enlarged to Crimea littoral, but there are a number of large cities that may or may not be taken by Russia (Nikolaev, Dnipro, Zaporozhie, Kharkiv...). It could become a stalemate, but that is unlikely - one or the other side will break. When Ukies (or Russians) break, there is no stopping it - it usually goes all the way down. In this war, Ukies are obviously more likely to break.

    That suggests that the final settlement will be more comprehensive with a clean sweep, that may include Odessa - the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado - not any more than for anything else. If they made a decision to use nukes than it doesn't depend on any single city.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LondonBob

    the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado

    It depends on the circumstances. Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely will escalate and rightly so as they can not give in to nuclear extortion. The West won’t send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn’t even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Greasy William


    Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely thwill escalate and rightly so as they can not give into nuclear extortion.
     
    An armistice at the current line is possible. The Kiev regime does not want a deal. Therein lies the problem.

    The West won’t send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.
     
    There are not that many advanced, expensive consumables like ATACMS in stock. Where would they come from?

    As I previously indicated, a significant cut back in American funding is inevitable. Where will the mercenaries and €uros to continue the fight come from? France & Germany?

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn’t even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.
     
    Why ask the U.S. for a "no EU" pledge? The suggestion is patently absurd. For NATO, as I have explained repeatedly to another commenter, the other only way to bind future U.S. administrations is a Senate ratified treaty.

    The best path is bypassing the disengaging U.S. Congress and the failed Not-The-President Biden regime. Any needed NATO and/or EU language can be dealt with in a bilateral Ukraine-Russia peace deal.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    , @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on...
     
    What if it does? The crucial problem with the war is that neither side can lose - any imaginable compromise would be unstable and exploited by both. The inability to consider 'losing' means that the escalation will continue. My view is that Russia is in a stronger position - for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    Putting aside who will likely win, the issue of two nuclear powers, both unable to lose and facing each other, has never happened. The talk of 'red lines' is the way it has been unartfully managed so far - 'you don't do this and we won't do that...' But war is the father of all things and we have no idea where this will go.

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron - the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot - has just said that the goal is not 'destroying' Russia, only defeating it. Very generous, if that is offered, what do you think the Russian reaction would be? I used to think that it will be slowly decided on the ground: blood and square metres, the usual stuff. I am not so sure, it is starting to get a whiff of an existential blow-out. If we make it through (the odds are still good), the current period will be summarized in an early Chapter on Causes...

    ...and a major cause of this madness was a mad plan to stick Nato in Ukraine that so many in the West vehemently try to deny now...it is a true tragicomedy, as if Romeo killed himself while all the time denying that he had any designs on Julia, and who could really "prove" that he had them?

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123, @German_reader

  855. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado
     
    It depends on the circumstances. Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely will escalate and rightly so as they can not give in to nuclear extortion. The West won't send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn't even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely thwill escalate and rightly so as they can not give into nuclear extortion.

    An armistice at the current line is possible. The Kiev regime does not want a deal. Therein lies the problem.

    The West won’t send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.

    There are not that many advanced, expensive consumables like ATACMS in stock. Where would they come from?

    As I previously indicated, a significant cut back in American funding is inevitable. Where will the mercenaries and €uros to continue the fight come from? France & Germany?

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn’t even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.

    Why ask the U.S. for a “no EU” pledge? The suggestion is patently absurd. For NATO, as I have explained repeatedly to another commenter, the other only way to bind future U.S. administrations is a Senate ratified treaty.

    The best path is bypassing the disengaging U.S. Congress and the failed Not-The-President Biden regime. Any needed NATO and/or EU language can be dealt with in a bilateral Ukraine-Russia peace deal.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.
     
    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal. When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as "Kiev regime".

    Replies: @AP, @A123

  856. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado
     
    It depends on the circumstances. Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely will escalate and rightly so as they can not give in to nuclear extortion. The West won't send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn't even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.

    Replies: @A123, @Beckow

    …Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on…

    What if it does? The crucial problem with the war is that neither side can lose – any imaginable compromise would be unstable and exploited by both. The inability to consider ‘losing‘ means that the escalation will continue. My view is that Russia is in a stronger position – for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    Putting aside who will likely win, the issue of two nuclear powers, both unable to lose and facing each other, has never happened. The talk of ‘red lines‘ is the way it has been unartfully managed so far – ‘you don’t do this and we won’t do that…‘ But war is the father of all things and we have no idea where this will go.

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it. Very generous, if that is offered, what do you think the Russian reaction would be? I used to think that it will be slowly decided on the ground: blood and square metres, the usual stuff. I am not so sure, it is starting to get a whiff of an existential blow-out. If we make it through (the odds are still good), the current period will be summarized in an early Chapter on Causes…

    …and a major cause of this madness was a mad plan to stick Nato in Ukraine that so many in the West vehemently try to deny now…it is a true tragicomedy, as if Romeo killed himself while all the time denying that he had any designs on Julia, and who could really “prove” that he had them?

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Russia doesn't want or need a ceasefire!

    The Russians want combat to continue so they kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.

    A ceasefire is designed to help the West and hurt Russia, same as the other moves. A ceasefire and negotiated peace would help the West by keeping NeoNazis, oligarchs and Western NGO's partially in place in Ukraine. The job of those groups would be to cause maximum trouble until this thing can be reignited in the future.

    I expect Russia will demand terms which the West is unwilling to entertain for the moment. This mess will keep grinding forward, later the West will get bored and back off and eventually sensible heads in Ukraine will capitulate.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @A123
    @Beckow


    Russia is in a stronger position – for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.
     
    I concur.

    The U.S. has nothing at stake and is twisting shut the money taps. Not-The-President Biden is jerking around on tangled European puppet strings. The U.S. can only deliver if the House appropriates, and that is going to be wedged back.

    What is the willingness & ability of the EU, primarily France & Germany, to keep the bloodletting in Ukraine going? Billions of €uros per month in cash? Plus, vast amounts of war material?

    With no hope for Ukie Maximalist victory, dumping resources on a lost cause cannot be appealing to European decision makers. Unless the goal is prolonging the chaos, not "winning" in any conventional sense.

    Time is on Putin's side.

    PEACE 😇
    , @German_reader
    @Beckow


    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it.
     
    Compared to lunatics like Morawiecki and other PiS cretins who are talking about breaking up Russian federation ("Freedom for Chechnya!") Macron is a moderate. But of course he's got nothing to offer to Russia and has only very limited influence in the Western camp.
    Anyway, I once wouldn't have expected it, but I mostly agree with your analysis. I think it's most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition. Maybe not in the sense of Russian tanks driving through Kiev, but in the sense that continuing the war will become too costly for Ukraine. Unless NATO intervenes directly, I don't see how Ukraine's stated goals could be achievable. And if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war (hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly by and watch Russia being defeated, nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario) and devastate central Europe at least.
    Should all have been eminently avoidable, what a disaster.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Greasy William, @Beckow

  857. @Greasy William
    @Barbarossa


    The worst part about modern breeding techniques is that they actually reduce many animals to little more than meat production machines, which disgusts me. We once had some high production meat birds which were so dumb that they didn’t have the sense to eat scraps and would only eat pelletized feed. It was rather uncanny and disturbing how truly denatured and dumb they were.
     
    That actually makes me feel better. That they were too stupid to realize how much their lives sucked.

    The world is a tough place and we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn't work. We should try to be as humane as possible about it and certainly we could do more but I don't think America is Hell for farm animals, for the most part.

    And at least when they die they get a quick, clean death. That's better than animals get in the wild and better than what a lot of humans get.

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow, @AP, @Barbarossa

    we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn’t work.

    I agree that Veganism doesn’t work well, but I would disagree with the former. A little meat goes a long way.

    I don’t agree that dumbing animals down is any better. It’s like solving the problem of human suffering by nuking humanity or solving the problems of rape and abuse by killing all women and replacing them with sex-bots. It doesn’t address the nature of the question/ problem. Using your logic is it desirable for a man to live a frictionless/ risk free life as a good unto itself? Were Corona policies prudent and desirable? Corona reaction is just factory farming logic applied to humans.

    Even the dumber animals suffer in confinement operations. I’ve been around them some and I have a hard time imagining how one could rationalize them as not bad.

    I know not everyone is going do what I do in life but I keep my freezers full and my animals live a pretty great life until they get a .22 in the brain while their nose is in a grain bucket. They don’t even know that the lights are out. Again, not everyone is going to pursue my lifestyle, but my point is that our farming system could be far different than it is today and that the status quo is unnecessary and a result of asking the wrong questions.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Barbarossa

    Until the 20th century, most people in Russia don't eat meat unless it is a luxury. Maybe when an animal died, your neighbor stole a bird from the landowner or you had some fish from the river.

    In the early 20th century, part of glamor of the ultra-wealthy countries like Argentina or USA, could have been partly because the wider public of Americans and Argentinians were eating meat regularly. Ordinary people of those countries having diets like aristocrats from the international perspective.

    As the century continues, after the successful agriculture policy of Stalin, everyone is eating meat, but it's often cans of stewed meat. America was also living with similar products by the middle of the century.

  858. @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on...
     
    What if it does? The crucial problem with the war is that neither side can lose - any imaginable compromise would be unstable and exploited by both. The inability to consider 'losing' means that the escalation will continue. My view is that Russia is in a stronger position - for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    Putting aside who will likely win, the issue of two nuclear powers, both unable to lose and facing each other, has never happened. The talk of 'red lines' is the way it has been unartfully managed so far - 'you don't do this and we won't do that...' But war is the father of all things and we have no idea where this will go.

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron - the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot - has just said that the goal is not 'destroying' Russia, only defeating it. Very generous, if that is offered, what do you think the Russian reaction would be? I used to think that it will be slowly decided on the ground: blood and square metres, the usual stuff. I am not so sure, it is starting to get a whiff of an existential blow-out. If we make it through (the odds are still good), the current period will be summarized in an early Chapter on Causes...

    ...and a major cause of this madness was a mad plan to stick Nato in Ukraine that so many in the West vehemently try to deny now...it is a true tragicomedy, as if Romeo killed himself while all the time denying that he had any designs on Julia, and who could really "prove" that he had them?

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123, @German_reader

    Russia doesn’t want or need a ceasefire!

    The Russians want combat to continue so they kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.

    A ceasefire is designed to help the West and hurt Russia, same as the other moves. A ceasefire and negotiated peace would help the West by keeping NeoNazis, oligarchs and Western NGO’s partially in place in Ukraine. The job of those groups would be to cause maximum trouble until this thing can be reignited in the future.

    I expect Russia will demand terms which the West is unwilling to entertain for the moment. This mess will keep grinding forward, later the West will get bored and back off and eventually sensible heads in Ukraine will capitulate.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @QCIC

    You could be right, but don't underestimate the cul-de-sac the Western neo-cons are in: losing in Ukraine would be kind of the end of them, where else could they go after that? Their hysteria will only grow - and they have plenty of tools to use. They will never get bored with the war, this is what they live for, they are ecstatic...


    kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.
     
    Killing in wars doesn't work that way - for all we know most Ukie dead are draftees from all over, people with no nationalist or Nazi mentality, people with no choice. That doesn't advance Russia' interests. And the killing may have to go on for a very long time.

    Replies: @QCIC

  859. @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on...
     
    What if it does? The crucial problem with the war is that neither side can lose - any imaginable compromise would be unstable and exploited by both. The inability to consider 'losing' means that the escalation will continue. My view is that Russia is in a stronger position - for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    Putting aside who will likely win, the issue of two nuclear powers, both unable to lose and facing each other, has never happened. The talk of 'red lines' is the way it has been unartfully managed so far - 'you don't do this and we won't do that...' But war is the father of all things and we have no idea where this will go.

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron - the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot - has just said that the goal is not 'destroying' Russia, only defeating it. Very generous, if that is offered, what do you think the Russian reaction would be? I used to think that it will be slowly decided on the ground: blood and square metres, the usual stuff. I am not so sure, it is starting to get a whiff of an existential blow-out. If we make it through (the odds are still good), the current period will be summarized in an early Chapter on Causes...

    ...and a major cause of this madness was a mad plan to stick Nato in Ukraine that so many in the West vehemently try to deny now...it is a true tragicomedy, as if Romeo killed himself while all the time denying that he had any designs on Julia, and who could really "prove" that he had them?

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123, @German_reader

    Russia is in a stronger position – for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    I concur.

    The U.S. has nothing at stake and is twisting shut the money taps. Not-The-President Biden is jerking around on tangled European puppet strings. The U.S. can only deliver if the House appropriates, and that is going to be wedged back.

    What is the willingness & ability of the EU, primarily France & Germany, to keep the bloodletting in Ukraine going? Billions of €uros per month in cash? Plus, vast amounts of war material?

    With no hope for Ukie Maximalist victory, dumping resources on a lost cause cannot be appealing to European decision makers. Unless the goal is prolonging the chaos, not “winning” in any conventional sense.

    Time is on Putin’s side.

    PEACE 😇

  860. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Russia doesn't want or need a ceasefire!

    The Russians want combat to continue so they kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.

    A ceasefire is designed to help the West and hurt Russia, same as the other moves. A ceasefire and negotiated peace would help the West by keeping NeoNazis, oligarchs and Western NGO's partially in place in Ukraine. The job of those groups would be to cause maximum trouble until this thing can be reignited in the future.

    I expect Russia will demand terms which the West is unwilling to entertain for the moment. This mess will keep grinding forward, later the West will get bored and back off and eventually sensible heads in Ukraine will capitulate.

    Replies: @Beckow

    You could be right, but don’t underestimate the cul-de-sac the Western neo-cons are in: losing in Ukraine would be kind of the end of them, where else could they go after that? Their hysteria will only grow – and they have plenty of tools to use. They will never get bored with the war, this is what they live for, they are ecstatic…

    kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.

    Killing in wars doesn’t work that way – for all we know most Ukie dead are draftees from all over, people with no nationalist or Nazi mentality, people with no choice. That doesn’t advance Russia’ interests. And the killing may have to go on for a very long time.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Beckow

    The deaths of Ukrainian conscripts are the obscene 'collateral damage' of Russia trying to kill as many future troublemakers as possible. Most of the surviving draftees will not become hardened guerrilla fighters after the SMO ends, they just want to go home.

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.

    Same for COVID, Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Replies: @Beckow

  861. German_reader says:
    @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on...
     
    What if it does? The crucial problem with the war is that neither side can lose - any imaginable compromise would be unstable and exploited by both. The inability to consider 'losing' means that the escalation will continue. My view is that Russia is in a stronger position - for the simple reason that the war is in their backyard and they have sufficient forces. The West depends on the willingness of Ukies to die and on their ability to continue providing huge amounts of arms, both are less certain.

    Putting aside who will likely win, the issue of two nuclear powers, both unable to lose and facing each other, has never happened. The talk of 'red lines' is the way it has been unartfully managed so far - 'you don't do this and we won't do that...' But war is the father of all things and we have no idea where this will go.

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron - the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot - has just said that the goal is not 'destroying' Russia, only defeating it. Very generous, if that is offered, what do you think the Russian reaction would be? I used to think that it will be slowly decided on the ground: blood and square metres, the usual stuff. I am not so sure, it is starting to get a whiff of an existential blow-out. If we make it through (the odds are still good), the current period will be summarized in an early Chapter on Causes...

    ...and a major cause of this madness was a mad plan to stick Nato in Ukraine that so many in the West vehemently try to deny now...it is a true tragicomedy, as if Romeo killed himself while all the time denying that he had any designs on Julia, and who could really "prove" that he had them?

    Replies: @QCIC, @A123, @German_reader

    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it.

    Compared to lunatics like Morawiecki and other PiS cretins who are talking about breaking up Russian federation (“Freedom for Chechnya!”) Macron is a moderate. But of course he’s got nothing to offer to Russia and has only very limited influence in the Western camp.
    Anyway, I once wouldn’t have expected it, but I mostly agree with your analysis. I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition. Maybe not in the sense of Russian tanks driving through Kiev, but in the sense that continuing the war will become too costly for Ukraine. Unless NATO intervenes directly, I don’t see how Ukraine’s stated goals could be achievable. And if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war (hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly by and watch Russia being defeated, nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario) and devastate central Europe at least.
    Should all have been eminently avoidable, what a disaster.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @German_reader

    French history regarding Poland (and by extension the Kiev entity) is quite interesting.

    Louis XVI was heavy in debt to Jews and Poles and the partition of Poland by Prussia and the Tsar was something of a blessing for the King. Louis had run up debts fighting the British in North America, and funding George Washington and ruined his superstate, getting his Austrian wife head-chopped. The Judaeo-Polish debt cancellations almost saved him.

    Macron must know from the records how damaging Poland has always been for French interests.

    One other thing, Europeans might have expected the traditional Checkerboard patterns of alliances to reemerge after the end of the cold war. It never occurred.

    Not so, it's just been an American steamroller all the way. I was hoping the Germans might stand up for their own interests at some point but it wasn't to be.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Greasy William
    @German_reader


    I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition
     
    Er, not unless Russia's timeline is like 20 years.

    Russia can kill ~20,000 Ukrainian soldiers a year. Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice but probably no more than 450,000. So you are talking about 15 to 20 years before you have bled Ukraine into submission, and who knows what happens inside Russia during that time. Keep in mind that every year the Ukrainians become better equipped and better trained.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    , @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...Macron is a moderate
     
    He plays one. There are no 'moderates' but some are designated as potential intermediaries. What Macron said reveals behind-the-scene discussions: they are trying to calibrate. Almost certainly they will go for the maximum.

    if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war...hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly... nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario...and devastate central Europe at least.
     
    I can't imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f...ed.

    The 'directly' can be interpreted differently. But without an intervention the Ukies won't hold. Russia doesn't look like they will hold back or stop.

    A soft exit would give Russia a win with a face-saving story for the West that it is a "Pyrrhic victory', Ukies are coming back, some of the Ukie-land has been preserved, China-India are squeezing profits from Russia, and Parmesan cheese will never again be shipped to Moscow! The Western media is capable of spinning that.

    What a self-inflicted disaster - kind of like the Teutoburg defeat, marching north-east with loyal allies, unaware of the geography, full of hubris and divine will...

    Replies: @German_reader

  862. @Beckow
    @QCIC

    You could be right, but don't underestimate the cul-de-sac the Western neo-cons are in: losing in Ukraine would be kind of the end of them, where else could they go after that? Their hysteria will only grow - and they have plenty of tools to use. They will never get bored with the war, this is what they live for, they are ecstatic...


    kill as many of the Ultra-nationalists and mercenaries as possible.
     
    Killing in wars doesn't work that way - for all we know most Ukie dead are draftees from all over, people with no nationalist or Nazi mentality, people with no choice. That doesn't advance Russia' interests. And the killing may have to go on for a very long time.

    Replies: @QCIC

    The deaths of Ukrainian conscripts are the obscene ‘collateral damage’ of Russia trying to kill as many future troublemakers as possible. Most of the surviving draftees will not become hardened guerrilla fighters after the SMO ends, they just want to go home.

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.

    Same for COVID, Afghanistan and Iraq.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Beckow
    @QCIC


    ...Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine
     
    It wouldn't be easy. The Neocons have three objectives:
    - US global supremacy
    - destroy, diminish and control Russia
    - Izrael and M East

    Everything else interests them only as feeder conflicts for the above: the control of Europe is a lukewarm hands-off goal most of the time, China is not an enemy, they see it as an 'alien' but useful other civilization that can be used - China has allowed itself to be used for the last few decades. Their heart is in defeating Russia and in unquestionable support for Izrael.

    The loss in Ukraine would devastate them. It would be an end of a 50-75 year old dream - it goes back few generations. They will do everything to keep some hope for a restart in the future - we see it in the latest statements by their front-men, often not neo-cons themselves. The new line is: 'Russia can't win across the board, we must keep them from doing another WW2 victory by any means, resist!!!...no matter the cost'...

    They can mitigate the loss by sacrificing huge numbers of Ukie soldiers and by throwing all they have ($, weapons, propaganda...) to the war. This is an obsession and obsessions are a form of siege - one can't escape. They can't shake it off. That's what makes it so interesting. Until maybe it will become too much so...

    Replies: @QCIC

  863. The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.

    I concur.

    The biggest thing to grasp is the alignment shift that yielded NeoConDemocrats. The DNC is now the Globalist & interventionist war party.

    MAGA will rebuild the military and make it properly masculine again. However, MAGA also realizes that force should not be used stupidly. #NeverTrump zealots will no doubt scream in rage at this graphic, but it is worth reposting.

     

     

    Trump and the MAGA movement refused to be baited by sociopath Khamenei. A proven track record of peace should be the obvious choice for 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.

    I don't think the understanding or even the will exists widely enough in the population to perform incremental rebuilding. Getting to this dismal state of affairs was a long time goal of public education, so every level of major organizations such as the military has a lot of broken people implementing and defending bad policies.

    Replies: @A123

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Why aren't you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.

    Replies: @A123, @AnonfromTN

    , @Gerard1234
    @A123

    Misleading nonsense. All the foundations for the SMO happening were laid by Trumps vacuous cowardice. Nothing was done to stop Khokholstan being even more of a Khokholstan, Trump slowed down NS2, did not say one word about the Minsk Agreement, no Arms Treaty with Russia, more sanctions against Russia, continued gangsterism in the forms of arrests of Russians for political reasons, nothing about Crimea status or supply of water from the canal ,Visa restrictions on Russians started under him,

    The US did plenty of intervening in Syria during his time - just not against Assad, although still taking some of his territory

    Israel is probably going to have more and more ( and better) diplomatic relations with the Middle East countries that it wants to have . Just because this trend started under Trump, does not mean it started because of Trump.

  864. @Leaves No Shadow
    @HeavilyMarbledSteak

    You're tendency isn't monism, but that might be your name for your delusion of ventriloquising everyone else so you don't have to own your own voice.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    There might be some truth in this charge of ventriloquism of HMS; he will often eagerly agree with you if such an opportunity offers itself. Plus, this tendency of his of universalizing everything so he doesn’t have his own stake in something too visible. Even this “will to power” newest concept is like trying to move everyone else [will] around him but he will just contemplate.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
  865. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    Perhaps, viewing of the pattern, but not “matter or energy” itself is information.
     
    Yes, it is the patterns that are important not what they are made of, or what they are based upon. "Matter" and "Energy" are only lexical placeholders for "phenomena" that we perceive using our senses. Our senses are dependent upon biochemical/biophysical receptors. Basically, we perceive "matter & energy" patterns / information and then integrate it and remodel it as "reality". The use of different scientific equipment to increase the scope of information gathered and analyzed when examining the nature of Reality doesn't change the fact that ultimately the "reality" exists in the brain of a sentient being that is witnessing it.


    Sure, the DNA is a physical object, but it contains stable pattern which we read as information and this interacts physically in predictable way as any machine code.
     
    Yes, I agree that it contains a pattern that once transcribed into RNA is decoded by the ribosomes. It also contains elements regulating its transcription. It is a complex and dynamic program.

    The important patterns in DNA is reducible to digital code. When you talk about the continuation of the genetic lineage, this is only continuing, something reducible to the machine code. This machine code then has predictable interactions with the physical world. The physical objects are different in the future, but those are not continuing after each animal or plant dies, only the part which can be interpreted as a machine code is continuing in the next generation (with its predictable relations with physical world i.e. results in the similar looking animals, although of course the animal can be physically not continuing a single atom of the animals which share its machine code).
     
    Yes. But I dislike your use of the word "machine". I would prefer using "natural code" instead. Also, let's keep in mind that there might be more subtle levels of information that are not directly detectable through our senses or our scientific equipment and that we would not therefore consider "physical". An example would be different subatomic/quantum interactions. There is recently more information appearing about possible connections between biology and quantum physics. So basically, we cannot rule that there are subtle quantic patterns linked with sentience that might somehow continue after the demise of the "physical" body. Quantum fields "fill the space" in all directions. There is no true Void to be found. We are literally woven from these fields in every subatomic particle of our body. Therefore, in a most literal sense, our being transcends what most people see as "physical matter". "Physical" is also another lexical "placeholder". So is "death".

    Animals are physical objects in the world, not information. Although we also have information about the animals.
     
    Animals are complex dynamic systems of interdependent patterns of "mater" and "energy". This is self-evident. Therefore, animals are information in its most basic sense. There is nothing inherently "physical" to be found anywhere in the whole Cosmos that is independent from information. В начале было Слово and all that.

    What is a mind? I don’t think we know have enough knowledge to say it is only the physical object in the animal. We also wouldn’t have knowledge to say it is information. It has some things which different than information as this would be understood in e.g. computer science.
     
    I agree.

    It’s words based on peoples’ experiences, which they believe are repeatable and empirical. It’s not exactly matching science which can be verified in a nonsubjective point of view (although they will try to match to physical patterns of the brain). It’s also difficult to pull a global implication from their subjective experience.
     
    Yes. And we cannot live without an epistemological representation of the Real. If we let go of words completely we become insane and unfit for survival in society. But we should not make idols out of words (words "Russia" and "Ukraine" come to mind as particularly sinister "idols" that demand human sacrifice).

    But there is likely empirical base for those Ancient Indian theories from the subjective view. People who follow the spiritual methodology will likely experience those qualities of the mind in a repeatable way.
     
    Yes. And although their hypotheses and theories might be somewhat outdated, they had remarkable insights about the nature of Reality and its interdependence with our perception and cognition.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mind-indian-buddhism/

    Replies: @Dmitry

    words “Russia” and “Ukraine” come to mind as particularly sinister “idols” that demand human sacrifice)

    It seems like predictable result of the postsoviet system. I wrote something like this many times in the forum for years.

    If you don’t live in a developed country, your government are usually a kind of mafia clans (although this is just an analogy, as it can be also mafia-secret police clans). But in postsoviet culture, mafia -secret police clans are sophisticated, using language of the European nation state. So, to criticize the government, can be presented as indication of being anti-social, traitor, supporter of hostile countries etc. Ignoring this political culture, the result is, like to say to African Americans they shouldn’t criticize leaders of the Bloods and the Crips,.

    I didn’t ask Turkish people, but I wonder if there is something similar. Only traitors can criticize Erdogan and the construction industry. Living burial under the earthquake is the sign of the loyal patriot.

    Although even in countries where criticizing your leaders is socially acceptable and expected (e.g. Latin America), doesn’t exactly convert you to Switzerland.

    But excluding the particular local history, what is the more optimal organization size for the society after agriculture and now industrialization?

    City-state model has been used in the times of the most cultural attainment as Renaissance Italy or the Classical Greece. But it can be correlating to more local wars, than less local wars. While the empire model is correlating with external wars that can increase in size.

    In self-reporting surveys, the most happy people in the world can be living in small islands (https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200209-what-makes-vanuatu-one-of-the-happiest-places-in-the-world). But this is lucky, where you live in a place the natural world is creating the more local scale of the society.

    American men, especially working class men, have been left behind with little hope for the “American dream” of a good family and stable job, income, and community. girls and the men paying them, benefit from the objectification of the other, at least on the surface — the girls, by profiting from the man’s isolation

    Gender relations today are a lot better than in 19th century if the famous writers and realism texts are accurate descriptions.

    For example, if you read Dostoevsky’s diary, when he is in London. He was writing the city is flooded with child prostitutes. Women were becoming enclosed from working in the land and flood to cities and factories.

    But, Americans are usually thinking to (also in smaller quantity the industrialized countries) a social golden age of second half of the 20th century, where they were so wealthy, working class man could buy a large house and his wife doesn’t need a job.

    Cultural ideal like Homer Simpson, who is a working man without education, who can buy a large house, two cars, fund three children, that have a high quality education, while wife doesn’t work.

    Historically and globally after the invention of agriculture, culture ideal of Marge Simpson’s lifestyle is only like an aristocratic woman or elite in other countries and times.

    It’s because America was the wealthiest country in world history and also had a more equal distribution of the money compared to now.

    And other of the industrialized societies also had some of this social situation at least after the 1960s, even in the Warsaw Pact countries (although requiring the higher equality of the income than in America or Western Europe).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    The age of classical Empires is gone.

    You don't really need to be a state and even much less so an Empire to access ressources and markets anymore. I think that as our system is slowly but inexorably converted into networks of interest and lobbying groups, so will the whole world become converted into competing transnational networks of TNCs, NGOs, "religious" organizations that act like corporations, sexual minorities that act as political parties, and political movements that act like mafias. Add to this the Technosphere evolving towards an increasing control over the flows of energy, ressources, information and you get the type of society described in cyberpunk novels.

    What would be the best manner to organize humans in such an environment? Depends on what the end goal of the organization is.

    I think that to maximize the survival of the genetic lineages undergoing the population bottleneck in the next several decades, a kind of transnational (pseudo ?) religious and (quasi ?)-tribal financial organization, which would encourage its members to procreate as much as possible, would be optimal.

    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to "online fame", "online wealth", "online sex", drugs and cheap calories would be best.

    The first option would easily coexist with the second, as they will not intersect in real life. The first population would relatively easily replace the second as second would be dysfunctional in real life environment and would not be able to form families and raise children.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

  866. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it.
     
    Compared to lunatics like Morawiecki and other PiS cretins who are talking about breaking up Russian federation ("Freedom for Chechnya!") Macron is a moderate. But of course he's got nothing to offer to Russia and has only very limited influence in the Western camp.
    Anyway, I once wouldn't have expected it, but I mostly agree with your analysis. I think it's most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition. Maybe not in the sense of Russian tanks driving through Kiev, but in the sense that continuing the war will become too costly for Ukraine. Unless NATO intervenes directly, I don't see how Ukraine's stated goals could be achievable. And if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war (hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly by and watch Russia being defeated, nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario) and devastate central Europe at least.
    Should all have been eminently avoidable, what a disaster.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Greasy William, @Beckow

    French history regarding Poland (and by extension the Kiev entity) is quite interesting.

    Louis XVI was heavy in debt to Jews and Poles and the partition of Poland by Prussia and the Tsar was something of a blessing for the King. Louis had run up debts fighting the British in North America, and funding George Washington and ruined his superstate, getting his Austrian wife head-chopped. The Judaeo-Polish debt cancellations almost saved him.

    Macron must know from the records how damaging Poland has always been for French interests.

    One other thing, Europeans might have expected the traditional Checkerboard patterns of alliances to reemerge after the end of the cold war. It never occurred.

    Not so, it’s just been an American steamroller all the way. I was hoping the Germans might stand up for their own interests at some point but it wasn’t to be.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Wokechoke

    I have never heard that Louis XVI had debts to Poland. Anyway, at the time of his reign Poland was already lacking money as it was time after the First Partition of Poland. I would think it would be the opposite way since France had previously supported Stanisław Leszczyński as the king of Poland - and the man would become Louis XVI great-grandfather.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

  867. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it.
     
    Compared to lunatics like Morawiecki and other PiS cretins who are talking about breaking up Russian federation ("Freedom for Chechnya!") Macron is a moderate. But of course he's got nothing to offer to Russia and has only very limited influence in the Western camp.
    Anyway, I once wouldn't have expected it, but I mostly agree with your analysis. I think it's most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition. Maybe not in the sense of Russian tanks driving through Kiev, but in the sense that continuing the war will become too costly for Ukraine. Unless NATO intervenes directly, I don't see how Ukraine's stated goals could be achievable. And if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war (hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly by and watch Russia being defeated, nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario) and devastate central Europe at least.
    Should all have been eminently avoidable, what a disaster.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Greasy William, @Beckow

    I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition

    Er, not unless Russia’s timeline is like 20 years.

    Russia can kill ~20,000 Ukrainian soldiers a year. Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice but probably no more than 450,000. So you are talking about 15 to 20 years before you have bled Ukraine into submission, and who knows what happens inside Russia during that time. Keep in mind that every year the Ukrainians become better equipped and better trained.

    • Agree: Leaves No Shadow
    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    It is not just about manpower losses. Russia is progressively destroying more of the Ukrainian infrastructure she was hoping to preserve. Eventually these prospective conscripts you mention will simply walk to Poland because there is not enough food or water in Ukraine.

    Russia still seems able to destroy Western munitions and mercenaries as fast as they are brought into Ukraine.

    , @Wokechoke
    @Greasy William

    Ukraine is around 1/2 way to a mutiny. They’ve definitely lost around 100,000 men.

    Russia is creeping up to 30,000 men lost.

    I’ve previously estimated that Russia calls it quits at 250,000 losses. That could include 250,000 trapped on Crimea though, subject to a Singapore style surrender they’d petition to evacuate.

    , @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice
     
    The numbers are just a guess...Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more. Kiev's available, capable manpower could be from 300k to 3 millions. There are also the foreign forces.

    Your '15 to 20 years' is very imprecise, it could be 1 year or 'never'. The attrition is about morale, willingness to stand ground, weapons. Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.

    But something else could happen: neo-cons are sensing that time is not on their side and will have to try something new. They are now busily brain-storming over buffets and maps, god help us...

    Replies: @Greasy William

  868. @Wokechoke
    @German_reader

    French history regarding Poland (and by extension the Kiev entity) is quite interesting.

    Louis XVI was heavy in debt to Jews and Poles and the partition of Poland by Prussia and the Tsar was something of a blessing for the King. Louis had run up debts fighting the British in North America, and funding George Washington and ruined his superstate, getting his Austrian wife head-chopped. The Judaeo-Polish debt cancellations almost saved him.

    Macron must know from the records how damaging Poland has always been for French interests.

    One other thing, Europeans might have expected the traditional Checkerboard patterns of alliances to reemerge after the end of the cold war. It never occurred.

    Not so, it's just been an American steamroller all the way. I was hoping the Germans might stand up for their own interests at some point but it wasn't to be.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    I have never heard that Louis XVI had debts to Poland. Anyway, at the time of his reign Poland was already lacking money as it was time after the First Partition of Poland. I would think it would be the opposite way since France had previously supported Stanisław Leszczyński as the king of Poland – and the man would become Louis XVI great-grandfather.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @Another Polish Perspective

    At the beginning of the eighteenth century France was allied with the Ottomans, Swedes, and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. This alliance structure, created by Louis XIV to check Austrian power, was destroyed, in large part, by the rise of Russia. The Czar’s armies defeated the Swedes in a series of wars at the start of the eighteenth century and eventually took part in the dismemberment of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Over the same period, just as England was being fiscally and institutionally reorganized in a way that henceforth made it a serious global imperialist contender, Prussia’s Frederick I instituted modernizing military reforms that made the already-centralized Prussian state formidable on the Continent in its own right. Its rise helped erode the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as well and further alarmed Vienna, already concerned by the growing strength of Moscow.

    At 1.3 billion livres, one could say it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Precision is impossible, but the French debt might have been as great as 12 billion livres by the time of the calling of the Estates General in 1789. But the financial costs of its involvement in the American Revolution are always cited among the causes of the French Revolution—involvement that would have been out of the question had it not been for the first partition of Poland.

  869. @A123

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.
     
    I concur.

    The biggest thing to grasp is the alignment shift that yielded NeoConDemocrats. The DNC is now the Globalist & interventionist war party.

    MAGA will rebuild the military and make it properly masculine again. However, MAGA also realizes that force should not be used stupidly. #NeverTrump zealots will no doubt scream in rage at this graphic, but it is worth reposting.

     
    https://joannenova.com.au/wp-content/presidents-wars.jpg
     

    Trump and the MAGA movement refused to be baited by sociopath Khamenei. A proven track record of peace should be the obvious choice for 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.

    I don’t think the understanding or even the will exists widely enough in the population to perform incremental rebuilding. Getting to this dismal state of affairs was a long time goal of public education, so every level of major organizations such as the military has a lot of broken people implementing and defending bad policies.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.
     
    Due to the GI Bill and other incentives, there is significant military staff turnover every 4-6 years. And, there is a reservoir of opposition to DEI privilege that can be tapped. Reviews based on actual performance will move the detritus out rapidly.

    Saving other institutions is indeed harder. De-Nazification of the Department of Justice is going to be ugly. Certain offices of the FBI, notably HQ and Baltimore, will need to be gutted. Perhaps the entire thing will have to go.

    The penalty for not trying is *guaranteed failure*.

    Therefore, the counter revolution against SJW Islamic dogma must take place. The Democrat party may be unsalvageable. If a period of one party MAGA rule is required... Well... I am not happy about the idea. However, crafting strong Judeo-Christian institutions is the minimum requirement to survive the existential threat. A bloodless revolution and Constitution 2.0 are acceptable outcomes.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

  870. Am kind of sad that they didn’t add RRR for encouraging a will to power, among the English.

    [MORE]
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11764775/Yes-Minister-flagged-beleaguered-counter-terror-Prevent-scheme.html#article-11764775

    What would happen if Indians developed it into the same sort of genre as the Chinese did with the Japanese and WW2, and English people began to like the aesthetics?

  871. @Greasy William
    @German_reader


    I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition
     
    Er, not unless Russia's timeline is like 20 years.

    Russia can kill ~20,000 Ukrainian soldiers a year. Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice but probably no more than 450,000. So you are talking about 15 to 20 years before you have bled Ukraine into submission, and who knows what happens inside Russia during that time. Keep in mind that every year the Ukrainians become better equipped and better trained.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    It is not just about manpower losses. Russia is progressively destroying more of the Ukrainian infrastructure she was hoping to preserve. Eventually these prospective conscripts you mention will simply walk to Poland because there is not enough food or water in Ukraine.

    Russia still seems able to destroy Western munitions and mercenaries as fast as they are brought into Ukraine.

  872. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Wokechoke

    I have never heard that Louis XVI had debts to Poland. Anyway, at the time of his reign Poland was already lacking money as it was time after the First Partition of Poland. I would think it would be the opposite way since France had previously supported Stanisław Leszczyński as the king of Poland - and the man would become Louis XVI great-grandfather.

    Replies: @Wokechoke

    At the beginning of the eighteenth century France was allied with the Ottomans, Swedes, and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. This alliance structure, created by Louis XIV to check Austrian power, was destroyed, in large part, by the rise of Russia. The Czar’s armies defeated the Swedes in a series of wars at the start of the eighteenth century and eventually took part in the dismemberment of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Over the same period, just as England was being fiscally and institutionally reorganized in a way that henceforth made it a serious global imperialist contender, Prussia’s Frederick I instituted modernizing military reforms that made the already-centralized Prussian state formidable on the Continent in its own right. Its rise helped erode the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as well and further alarmed Vienna, already concerned by the growing strength of Moscow.

    At 1.3 billion livres, one could say it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Precision is impossible, but the French debt might have been as great as 12 billion livres by the time of the calling of the Estates General in 1789. But the financial costs of its involvement in the American Revolution are always cited among the causes of the French Revolution—involvement that would have been out of the question had it not been for the first partition of Poland.

  873. @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa

    I like this comment.

    Do you remember before you had the ability to be this thoughtful? And how you got to this point? Was it definite? Or gradual like normal aging? I feel you've learned a lot in this life and must have grown immensely. You probably don't believe what I'm about to say, but this level of reflective wisdom will follow you into future lifetimes. Even with a genuine feel for animals and their far more limited consciousnesses! I love it.

    I appreciate my above comment is weird.


    This may seem like a dumb discussion to some, but I think it serves to illustrate how humans in their excessive quest for control will destroy a thing in order to fully harness it to our will
     
    Yes, though the ways that human egos try to control are manifold and insidious. Starting within. Even beginning as "I should feel happy now because of X, Y and Z ideology" when the first question the ego should be asking is "how do I feel?" And so the process of reflection can go from there. But I don't think this is something you lack an implicit understanding of, even if I'm not sure your understanding is as yet explicit.

    What do you think?

    Replies: @Barbarossa

    I think that I’m fundamentally the same person that I was as a boy, though naturally things become more refined and explicit over time. At least my wife and kids say I still act like a kid. I have to entertain myself somehow.

    I can’t really say that I feel as though I can claim much credit one way or another, as I’m just acting according to my inclinations. To be honest, being callous toward animals or people would probably require some active work on my part!

    I do remember one definite point in my life that you may find interesting grist for psycho-analyzing. I was about 6 and was looking out my bedroom window at a tree and being suddenly struck by it’s tree nature and considering it in a way didn’t take it for granted. I realized in that instant that prior I had taken the world in a reflexive way. I suppose child psychologists have some name for that stage of development, but that is outside my interest. It was a striking moment though which always stuck with me.

    I actually don’t discount the idea of a transmigration of souls/ reincarnation. I think it makes a certain amount of sense though I don’t attach much import one way or another. I think it’s best to assume that God sorts all that out for the best. Though if I’ve been/ will be around the block more than once it may just mean that I’m a slow learner!

    • Replies: @Leaves No Shadow
    @Barbarossa


    At least my wife and kids say I still act like a kid.
     
    Most people would say that maintaining curiosity and openness is not staying the same, as it leads to personal changes they egotistically consider important, or even threatening.

    However it appears you're happy to identify with those things as lived rather than conceptualised, rather than the usual egoic concerns.

    To be honest, being callous toward animals or people would probably require some active work on my part!

     

    People would suffer a lot less if they had the internal openness and curiosity to realise that this point applies to them too.

    I was about 6 and was looking out my bedroom window at a tree and being suddenly struck by it’s tree nature and considering it in a way didn’t take it for granted. I realized in that instant that prior I had taken the world in a reflexive way.
     
    That's a transcendental moment. If you ever wonder why others seems so determined to never learn, one way to see it is because they lack the courage for that, or even currently lack that spiritual gift.

    I think it’s best to assume that God sorts all that out for the best.
     
    Having faith internally, as typified by your internal attitude and ability to have transcendental moments, is usually matched by faith externally. It is the definition of heroic, though explaining why is laborious.

    I wish you the best in your time you mention spending elsewhere. Not that you need my wishes! Some people will find the other side of big unknowns very discombobulating, others will find them so friction free that they're swiftly blissful. And they and everyone will be fine.
  874. When Mel Gibson made Braveheart, I wonder how many people thought that a Paki, who said that Scotland was too white, would be nominating himself to be leader of Scotland in 2023.

    Or that subcons would be going for a likely trifecta of rule in the British isles. Quite bizarre, IMO. Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
    @songbird

    It’s very hard to understand Varadcar Sunak and this Scotto Pak.

    It is a confusion.

    , @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?
     
    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.

    A lot of young people seem to look to socialism to solve every problem and if a Labour government is elected as predicted, whatever it can achieve I doubt it will meet these expectations. Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the 'low information' voter part of the population by then as well.

    I was going to post a link to Douglas Murray's article in the Spectator about the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo's 'Great Railway Journeys' series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation, but Sailer had beaten me to it.

    Replies: @songbird

  875. @A123
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms


    I should say the weapon that Jet Li used in the film is the Chinese three-section staff
     
    Jet Li is arguably one of the top 10 martial arts experts on the planet. Combine that with modern cinematography. Yes. The three-section staff can look good on the silver screen.

     
    https://i0.wp.com/www.martialjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/36_chambers_header_image.jpg
     

    However, historical evidence for use of the three-section staff is thin. There is nothing that supports it as a popular & commonly issued weapon of war. For the weight and manufacturing expenditure, there are more effective options.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Jet Li has made a bunch of “patriotic” films for the CCP. I’ve recommended to songbird The Founding of a Republic about the Chinese Civil War.

    Except Jet Li was a US citizen at that time. He’s now renounced it and became a Singapore citizen.

    It just shows what a fake clown show the US vs. China Cold War II narrative is.

  876. @A123
    @Barbarossa

    While senseless abuse is a problem. Trying to make things better also entails consequences: (1)


    In some states, like California, egg prices are as high as $7 for a dozen, mainly attributed to a state law which requires egg producers to raise cage-free hens, that went into effect last year and so far, the bird flu has killed 4 million cage-free hens alone keeping supplies low as demand remained high.
     
    How does one find a balance between:

    -- What we would like to accept as a society
    -- Affording that desired outcome
    -- Compelling that result

    Is the right balance being better to milk cows that can last 10+ years -while- not worrying so much about contract KFC chickens that last for weeks?

    Trying to make specific rules for "morality" is admittedly an issue. However, part of society is enforcement. And, without clear rules -- selective & arbitrary enforcement creates dystopian failures.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonytellez/2023/01/12/why-are-egg-prices-still-so-high-its-not-the-reason-you-think/

    Replies: @songbird, @Barbarossa

    Part of the issue is that we are talking about laws in a post religious society. This is an area that is better handled by social norms and religions convictions. At least that was traditionally the domain it fell under. Part of the problem is that we have jettisoned that frame of reference for such questions and so it becomes the clunky and arbitrary domain of laws and regulation.

    To me, it is a question of respect for creation and Creator which is understandably inscrutable to many today. God created and is in all life and so it all deserves recognition and respect as such. I eat and I will be eaten.

    As far as social questions go, I’m a firm believer that most of our social ills are due to a glut of easy calories. If food was more expensive perhaps more people would start growing backyard gardens and keeping a couple pigs or a few chickens, like was the case up until a few decades ago. This would be better for them mentally and physically and the new found connection to the real world would cure a lot of progressive obsessions.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Barbarossa


    Part of the issue is that we are talking about laws in a post religious society.
     
    I largely concur.

    The solution is, in part, a return to traditional Christian institutions and values. The lack of respect for God's creatures great & small is a symptom. God & Jesus need to be front & center in the public square. That does not mean excluding Santa Claus, but he does have to ride in the back of the sled (if you will exclude the terrible mixed metaphor).

    growing backyard gardens and keeping a couple pigs or a few chickens, like was the case up until a few decades ago. This would be better for them mentally and physically and the new found connection to the real world would cure a lot of progressive obsessions.

     

    Not everyone has a backyard. However, including food plants as part of the school curriculum could work on a balcony or community garden. Doing something today that will be rewarded down the line is an essential life lesson.

    PEACE 😇
  877. @A123

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.
     
    I concur.

    The biggest thing to grasp is the alignment shift that yielded NeoConDemocrats. The DNC is now the Globalist & interventionist war party.

    MAGA will rebuild the military and make it properly masculine again. However, MAGA also realizes that force should not be used stupidly. #NeverTrump zealots will no doubt scream in rage at this graphic, but it is worth reposting.

     
    https://joannenova.com.au/wp-content/presidents-wars.jpg
     

    Trump and the MAGA movement refused to be baited by sociopath Khamenei. A proven track record of peace should be the obvious choice for 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.

    • Replies: @A123
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.
     
    Distance mostly. Spending hours in a vehicle for an event that will only last a few hours is not as exciting as it was when I was a younger.

    PEACE 😇
    , @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration?
     
    Well, I was there, mostly out of curiosity, and I was not impressed. Maybe 300 people were there at the peak. After 6th or 7th speaker the speeches became boringly repetitive, and people started to leave. I’d say the best performance by far was Jimmy Dore. If they threw away most of the speakers and left 3-4, Jimmy Dore, and a few songs, it could have been a success. As it is, it wasn’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

  878. @Ivashka the fool
    @Mr. Hack

    https://happymag.tv/an-essential-item-in-your-next-home-studio-wrap-yourselves-up-in-the-psychedelic-handmade-carpets-of-faig-ahmed/

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Yowza!

    [MORE]

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  879. I’ll bouncing out of here for an extended bit after I wrap up outstanding comments, so I’ll wish everyone the best in the meantime.

    I’ll expect a full report on the definitive answers to the world’s pressing problems when I return!

    • Thanks: A123
  880. @QCIC
    @A123

    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.

    I don't think the understanding or even the will exists widely enough in the population to perform incremental rebuilding. Getting to this dismal state of affairs was a long time goal of public education, so every level of major organizations such as the military has a lot of broken people implementing and defending bad policies.

    Replies: @A123

    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.

    Due to the GI Bill and other incentives, there is significant military staff turnover every 4-6 years. And, there is a reservoir of opposition to DEI privilege that can be tapped. Reviews based on actual performance will move the detritus out rapidly.

    Saving other institutions is indeed harder. De-Nazification of the Department of Justice is going to be ugly. Certain offices of the FBI, notably HQ and Baltimore, will need to be gutted. Perhaps the entire thing will have to go.

    The penalty for not trying is *guaranteed failure*.

    Therefore, the counter revolution against SJW Islamic dogma must take place. The Democrat party may be unsalvageable. If a period of one party MAGA rule is required… Well… I am not happy about the idea. However, crafting strong Judeo-Christian institutions is the minimum requirement to survive the existential threat. A bloodless revolution and Constitution 2.0 are acceptable outcomes.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.

    Replies: @A123

  881. @Barbarossa
    @A123

    Part of the issue is that we are talking about laws in a post religious society. This is an area that is better handled by social norms and religions convictions. At least that was traditionally the domain it fell under. Part of the problem is that we have jettisoned that frame of reference for such questions and so it becomes the clunky and arbitrary domain of laws and regulation.

    To me, it is a question of respect for creation and Creator which is understandably inscrutable to many today. God created and is in all life and so it all deserves recognition and respect as such. I eat and I will be eaten.

    As far as social questions go, I'm a firm believer that most of our social ills are due to a glut of easy calories. If food was more expensive perhaps more people would start growing backyard gardens and keeping a couple pigs or a few chickens, like was the case up until a few decades ago. This would be better for them mentally and physically and the new found connection to the real world would cure a lot of progressive obsessions.

    Replies: @A123

    Part of the issue is that we are talking about laws in a post religious society.

    I largely concur.

    The solution is, in part, a return to traditional Christian institutions and values. The lack of respect for God’s creatures great & small is a symptom. God & Jesus need to be front & center in the public square. That does not mean excluding Santa Claus, but he does have to ride in the back of the sled (if you will exclude the terrible mixed metaphor).

    growing backyard gardens and keeping a couple pigs or a few chickens, like was the case up until a few decades ago. This would be better for them mentally and physically and the new found connection to the real world would cure a lot of progressive obsessions.

    Not everyone has a backyard. However, including food plants as part of the school curriculum could work on a balcony or community garden. Doing something today that will be rewarded down the line is an essential life lesson.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  882. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Why aren't you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.

    Replies: @A123, @AnonfromTN

    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.

    Distance mostly. Spending hours in a vehicle for an event that will only last a few hours is not as exciting as it was when I was a younger.

    PEACE 😇

  883. @Another Polish Perspective
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I just tried to provide alternative view to the general worship of Japanw prevailing on forum.


    You were making general statements alluding to East Asian nihilism and cruelty without placing it in context.
     
    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like "strange, bizarre, childish", not "cruel, nihilistic".

    Poland has expelled Germans relatively peacefully, and few were even allowed to stay under certain conditions, this is why German emigration from Poland went on until 1970ties. It was in Czechoslovakia where some excesses took place.

    BTW, I am aware of the fact that Poland has a lot of sympathy in Japan. Some Japanese are coming to study not just Chopin music, but also Polish studies (Polonistyka). In fact, it is also the opposite - Japan has been popular in Poland too (however, mostly its pop culture like anime, manga and J-pop, Murakami or Mishima books have never become so popular here like in the West ), even if recently South Korea became the most popular Far East country here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enigma_of_Japanese_Power

    Wolferen's book is primarily about culture and government in Japan, not about economy. I see you didn't read it and still speak about it - this is not strictly correct too.
    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students I once lived in a small student house (20 people) in Amsterdam. I once tried to defend Tibet when talking with them... well, I was told the government simply deals with criminals there, as every gov does.... and for next few weeks one or other of them conveyed to me (did I hear?) some good news of China in the West, like some Chinese minister came to Netherlands and there was no problem with Tibet at all. The intention was probably to convince me that whatever I said in criticism was irrelevant in the broader context.
    This experience made me aware that criticizing Far East to its inhabitants is a serious thing.

    However, you should be aware that this is very different than culture in Poland, where people complain and criticize Poland a lot. I suppose it is a part of general culture of complaining in Poland, which, may be a kind of "sticking together in the disaster of Polish history" but some say, it is done to prevent people from being arrogant - so it would be a reverse of Asian non-complaining culture, which also prevents arrogance... in the end, it may be simply about what majority does, and sticking out is read as arrogance.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    No, I was talking specifically about Japan, using words like “strange, bizarre, childish”,

    I know. I wouldn’t bother addressing someone who simply makes crude ignorant statements.

    He also mentions how hard is to voice open criticism in Japan, of which you seem to be an example. You remind me about those Chinese students

    It’s fine if you want dissociate from Czechs and Slovaks in that context. But you are conflating Chinese with Japanese, who are actually farther apart than West Slavs:

    – PRC students can be very nationalist, and they are usually anti-Japan and pro-Russia. Myself being a Japanophile make me very unlikely to be a PRC nationalist

    – I wouldn’t defend of PRC colonization of Tibet either. It’s not really different than what Japan tried to do in China. And Han Chinese dynasties have never ruled Tibet, only Manchu-Mongol ones have, and those dynasties have been historically been very war-mongering.

    I see you didn’t read it and still speak about it

    He doesn’t speak and read Japanese. If someone who doesn’t speak Polish but claims expertise on Poland and wrote a book in English, something like The Wisdom and Power of Międzymorze, and makes a lot of money off it, you might be annoyed.

    Chinese have a lot of these books about Jews, I think at least some Jews would find those annoying–

    塔木德 : 犹太人的创业与致富圣经 Talmud : The Jewish Bible for Entrepreneurship and Getting Rich

    犹太人智慧大全集 The Encyclopedia of Jewish Wisdom

  884. @songbird
    When Mel Gibson made Braveheart, I wonder how many people thought that a Paki, who said that Scotland was too white, would be nominating himself to be leader of Scotland in 2023.

    Or that subcons would be going for a likely trifecta of rule in the British isles. Quite bizarre, IMO. Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Coconuts

    It’s very hard to understand Varadcar Sunak and this Scotto Pak.

    It is a confusion.

    • Agree: songbird
  885. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    words “Russia” and “Ukraine” come to mind as particularly sinister “idols” that demand human sacrifice)
     
    It seems like predictable result of the postsoviet system. I wrote something like this many times in the forum for years.

    If you don't live in a developed country, your government are usually a kind of mafia clans (although this is just an analogy, as it can be also mafia-secret police clans). But in postsoviet culture, mafia -secret police clans are sophisticated, using language of the European nation state. So, to criticize the government, can be presented as indication of being anti-social, traitor, supporter of hostile countries etc. Ignoring this political culture, the result is, like to say to African Americans they shouldn't criticize leaders of the Bloods and the Crips,.

    I didn't ask Turkish people, but I wonder if there is something similar. Only traitors can criticize Erdogan and the construction industry. Living burial under the earthquake is the sign of the loyal patriot.

    Although even in countries where criticizing your leaders is socially acceptable and expected (e.g. Latin America), doesn't exactly convert you to Switzerland.

    -

    But excluding the particular local history, what is the more optimal organization size for the society after agriculture and now industrialization?

    City-state model has been used in the times of the most cultural attainment as Renaissance Italy or the Classical Greece. But it can be correlating to more local wars, than less local wars. While the empire model is correlating with external wars that can increase in size.

    In self-reporting surveys, the most happy people in the world can be living in small islands (https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200209-what-makes-vanuatu-one-of-the-happiest-places-in-the-world). But this is lucky, where you live in a place the natural world is creating the more local scale of the society.

    American men, especially working class men, have been left behind with little hope for the “American dream” of a good family and stable job, income, and community. girls and the men paying them, benefit from the objectification of the other, at least on the surface — the girls, by profiting from the man’s isolation
     
    Gender relations today are a lot better than in 19th century if the famous writers and realism texts are accurate descriptions.

    For example, if you read Dostoevsky's diary, when he is in London. He was writing the city is flooded with child prostitutes. Women were becoming enclosed from working in the land and flood to cities and factories.

    But, Americans are usually thinking to (also in smaller quantity the industrialized countries) a social golden age of second half of the 20th century, where they were so wealthy, working class man could buy a large house and his wife doesn't need a job.

    Cultural ideal like Homer Simpson, who is a working man without education, who can buy a large house, two cars, fund three children, that have a high quality education, while wife doesn't work.

    Historically and globally after the invention of agriculture, culture ideal of Marge Simpson's lifestyle is only like an aristocratic woman or elite in other countries and times.

    It's because America was the wealthiest country in world history and also had a more equal distribution of the money compared to now.

    And other of the industrialized societies also had some of this social situation at least after the 1960s, even in the Warsaw Pact countries (although requiring the higher equality of the income than in America or Western Europe).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The age of classical Empires is gone.

    You don’t really need to be a state and even much less so an Empire to access ressources and markets anymore. I think that as our system is slowly but inexorably converted into networks of interest and lobbying groups, so will the whole world become converted into competing transnational networks of TNCs, NGOs, “religious” organizations that act like corporations, sexual minorities that act as political parties, and political movements that act like mafias. Add to this the Technosphere evolving towards an increasing control over the flows of energy, ressources, information and you get the type of society described in cyberpunk novels.

    What would be the best manner to organize humans in such an environment? Depends on what the end goal of the organization is.

    I think that to maximize the survival of the genetic lineages undergoing the population bottleneck in the next several decades, a kind of transnational (pseudo ?) religious and (quasi ?)-tribal financial organization, which would encourage its members to procreate as much as possible, would be optimal.

    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to “online fame”, “online wealth”, “online sex”, drugs and cheap calories would be best.

    The first option would easily coexist with the second, as they will not intersect in real life. The first population would relatively easily replace the second as second would be dysfunctional in real life environment and would not be able to form families and raise children.

    • Agree: LatW, Barbarossa, S
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool


    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to “online fame”, “online wealth”, “online sex”, drugs and cheap calories would be best.
     
    Could you expand your thoughts here? Who is actually going to make the decision of whether "survival" rather than "enjoyment" is to dominate the political landscape? How is society going to be able to produce the goods and services it needs to survive, if most of its citizens are involved in online sex chat rooms (not very different from all of the internet porno sites that one can already access?). Besides the increase of expensive sports bars that allow the imbibers of all sorts of alcoholic drinks that are consumed in front of 30 foot TV screens dedicated to watching professional sports, we now have sturdy outlets of cannabis bliss that provide all manner of ways to get your favorite (and nowadays much more potent) buzz (smoke, vape, liquid, baked goods) on almost every street corner.

    https://zeta.creativecirclecdn.com/yourvalley/original/20210413-142804-Mint%20Dispensary%20biz.jpg
    Government approved soma centers - why work on solving your own problems, when you can just get stoned and have the government take care of you?
    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    maximize the survival of the genetic lineages.. members to procreate as much as possible... AR environment with access to “online fame”, “online wealth”,
     
    Well, it is dystopian nightmares.

    This view that life should be spread and procreation of machine codes (genetic lineages), increasing of the problem of overpopulation which is one of already one of the most dehumanizing aspects of the world at the current level and computerization of the population.


    end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role

     

    Enjoyment is not just dopamine levels, or happy life would be sugar water, cigarettes and cocaine in your operant conditioning cell.

    Conditions for the happy life for the people in the modern world are things that was known in the 18th century like the respect for the individual life, liberty, freedom, autonomy.

    Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our concepts of peoples' autonomy have been re-interpreted by capitalism in America
    - "Freedom to choose between twenty brands of processed cheese in the supermarket".
    - "Freedom to drive my car and create traffic jams".
    - "Freedom for business to operate in low regulatory environment".

    While in the second/third world our view of freedom is like
    - "Freedom not to follow building regulations"
    - "Freedom to pay my friends with government money"
    - "Freedom from responsibility for our politicians".
    - "Freedom to add chemicals to the water supply"

    Obviously, this is not the understanding of freedom which will result in the happy life.


    classical Empires is gone
     
    Developed modern countries which have been the most successful, are where the power is shared by larger shares of the population, there are the liberal humanistic tradition and there is contact of man with nature. This is the model of Switzerland or Norway.

    The size of the countries is not too large in terms of population, the density of population is lower and the main passions of the population relate to the contact with the natural world. Obviously, the luxury economic situation (banking in Switzerland, oil in Norway) is a precondition most of the world doesn't have.

    But perhaps it's not impossible for countries to learn something. The smaller countries can working better for their people. .

  886. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    I think that the term "psychedelic" need not encompass anything to do with drugs today. The work of a very steady hand and a sober eye can also be described as such (colorful, intricate designs, mesmerising content):

    https://art.ebsqart.com/art/34458/739642.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    Off the top of my head, my favorite phrase that I have heard in the past 6 weeks or so is “Bosch-Dalí” to negatively describe one particularly bad work of modern art. ( I think it must have been that King statue on the Common.)

    But perhaps it is not so clever, if you know that Bosch was an influence on Dalí.

  887. @Greasy William
    @German_reader


    I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition
     
    Er, not unless Russia's timeline is like 20 years.

    Russia can kill ~20,000 Ukrainian soldiers a year. Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice but probably no more than 450,000. So you are talking about 15 to 20 years before you have bled Ukraine into submission, and who knows what happens inside Russia during that time. Keep in mind that every year the Ukrainians become better equipped and better trained.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    Ukraine is around 1/2 way to a mutiny. They’ve definitely lost around 100,000 men.

    Russia is creeping up to 30,000 men lost.

    I’ve previously estimated that Russia calls it quits at 250,000 losses. That could include 250,000 trapped on Crimea though, subject to a Singapore style surrender they’d petition to evacuate.

  888. @A123
    @QCIC


    A lot of important institutions in the USA need rebuilding, replacement or removal. Unfortunately, it is not clear how they can be rebuilt without totally gutting them first.
     
    Due to the GI Bill and other incentives, there is significant military staff turnover every 4-6 years. And, there is a reservoir of opposition to DEI privilege that can be tapped. Reviews based on actual performance will move the detritus out rapidly.

    Saving other institutions is indeed harder. De-Nazification of the Department of Justice is going to be ugly. Certain offices of the FBI, notably HQ and Baltimore, will need to be gutted. Perhaps the entire thing will have to go.

    The penalty for not trying is *guaranteed failure*.

    Therefore, the counter revolution against SJW Islamic dogma must take place. The Democrat party may be unsalvageable. If a period of one party MAGA rule is required... Well... I am not happy about the idea. However, crafting strong Judeo-Christian institutions is the minimum requirement to survive the existential threat. A bloodless revolution and Constitution 2.0 are acceptable outcomes.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.
     
    In Red States -- Judeo-Christian ideas are winning.
    In 卐lue States -- SJW, anti-Christian, neo-Nazis are ahead.

    De-Nazification is essential. The most humane option is a Constitution 2.0 that does not allow dole critters to vote.

    The specifics must be negotiated. However, the simple truth is that useless eaters must be non-citizens.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  889. @A123

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.
     
    I concur.

    The biggest thing to grasp is the alignment shift that yielded NeoConDemocrats. The DNC is now the Globalist & interventionist war party.

    MAGA will rebuild the military and make it properly masculine again. However, MAGA also realizes that force should not be used stupidly. #NeverTrump zealots will no doubt scream in rage at this graphic, but it is worth reposting.

     
    https://joannenova.com.au/wp-content/presidents-wars.jpg
     

    Trump and the MAGA movement refused to be baited by sociopath Khamenei. A proven track record of peace should be the obvious choice for 2024.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC, @Emil Nikola Richard, @Gerard1234

    Misleading nonsense. All the foundations for the SMO happening were laid by Trumps vacuous cowardice. Nothing was done to stop Khokholstan being even more of a Khokholstan, Trump slowed down NS2, did not say one word about the Minsk Agreement, no Arms Treaty with Russia, more sanctions against Russia, continued gangsterism in the forms of arrests of Russians for political reasons, nothing about Crimea status or supply of water from the canal ,Visa restrictions on Russians started under him,

    The US did plenty of intervening in Syria during his time – just not against Assad, although still taking some of his territory

    Israel is probably going to have more and more ( and better) diplomatic relations with the Middle East countries that it wants to have . Just because this trend started under Trump, does not mean it started because of Trump.

  890. The Ukies are in a genuine crisis with tanks, and it’s worth pointing out that there was a significant Tank battle in the north east of Ukraine.
    Around 100 Ukie T64 went toe to toe with CAA and their T72s. Cherniev was surrounded and cut off but held out.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/25/how-ukraines-1st-tank-brigade-fought-a-russian-force-ten-times-its-size-and-won/?sh=2208e6da6c59

    Their T64 fleet is spent. They will need to refit with Leopards. They will need 800 of them minimum.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Wokechoke

    Dima of the Military Summary channel has commented that the Russian MoD has not mentioned destroyed Ukrainian tanks for a few days, given the number requested from the West it would suggest a real shortage.

  891. I remember when there were only Irish taxi drivers in Dublin:

    [MORE]

    But I hope that the antiracists take full advantage of the cut-rate cabs now available.

  892. @Dmitry
    @AP


    eating a live fish
     
    Scientifically, it's nowadays believed fish feel pain and have a mind.

    But historically it's common in many cultures not to believe fish (also crabs, octopus, etc) have a mind or will feel pain.

    This is true also in the Russian fishing culture people will view fish like an impersonal object and add a living one on the hook. It's not exactly sadism, but the view it is an nonconscious object.

    I assume Chinese or Korean diners believe a fish or octopus has no mind. But they want an indicator of how fresh this is.

    In Northern Europe, it's the same with boiling living crawfish. In Southern Europe they are boiling living crabs and lobsters because they believe it's more fresh.

    Likely this should be illegal, because we don't have knowledge about the mental experience of these animals. It's possible they are having a worse experience than historical victims of Ivan Grozny. (
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBJg47aZFp8.)

    However, the motive for this behavior with the seafood also is less often sadism, as the animals are too different from us to have what we can understand as expression of pain.


    baby turtles trapped in plastic as jewelry:

    https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-1225684627.html

    The live and struggle for a few days before they die.
     
    It as you expect in a low regulation country that is currently climbing into the second world.

    engage in random cruelty towards animals than Americans shoot bears with arrows.
     
    Obviously. it's not the average American. But America is the country which produces that kind of YouTube content. You know something dropping the spear on the pig for YouTube, is more likely from America. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILDMSeZ_qA. Wild pigs are causing a lot of economic damage for the agriculture business, so there is the nonsadistic motive to hunt them. But they are also intelligent animals quite similar to humans, which allows for the sadistic motivation.

    Replies: @AP

    I assume Chinese or Korean diners believe a fish or octopus has no mind. But they want an indicator of how fresh this is.

    This is very charitable.

    In Northern Europe, it’s the same with boiling living crawfish. In Southern Europe they are boiling living crabs and lobsters because they believe it’s more fresh.

    Likely this should be illegal, because we don’t have knowledge about the mental experience of these animals. It’s possible they are having a worse experience than historical victims of Ivan Grozny

    Crustaceans have more primitive nervous systems than even insects. They are not very conscious.

    And yet, I can’t imagine myself watching them get boiled alive at my table in front of me before I eat them. There is something wrong with people who would like that.

    • Agree: Sher Singh
  893. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @LatW

    The perception of AMWF relationships is very different I feel in Europe vs. Anglo West. If someone like Philipp Rösler grew in America, he's much more likely to be belittled and beset with jokes about eating dogs,

    https://i.postimg.cc/nhSh38bF/5f29080e-0001-0004-0000-000000260795-w948-r1-778-fpx70-04-fpy49-98.webp

    Crouching Tiger

    Again that genre is subtly emasculating-- and part of CCP's game to keep Chinese men docile to rule over. It appears to assign superhuman qualities to wushu, giving Chinese an overinflated cultural ego, when in fact its mostly kata, like this-- I don't know how this would have the slightest appeal to white women, anymore than ping-pong or badminton players



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACSxPTgmPBA

    It's changing now, there was a MMA guy Xu Xiaodong who stumped all the fake martial artists, so guys get, you have train weights and actual grappling and striking skills, like systema

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqzAtS4hmuw

    Asian swords and knives are both beautiful and effective.

    The Chinese dadao can supposedly at the right angle, break a katana in half, but its a crude broadsword. There had been more refined swords in Chinese history but simply not passed down.

    Because Japan's history is rather like a single Chinese dynasty, so swordsmith techniques get passed down and katana is a ceremonial, decorative, training, dueling, as well as a practical battlefield weapon,

    https://i.postimg.cc/YSfG8n3b/Dadao-3D.jpg

    except they are not as small and light, but more “grounded” / robust

    The gym culture in China is only nascent, but speaking from experience East Asian guys get results from lifting as well as anyone else. I'm a taller gracile version of this 😉

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC8x-cwd4DQ

    Replies: @LatW

    The perception of AMWF relationships is very different I feel in Europe vs. Anglo West.

    It’s not the most common combo. But I know what you mean, Europe is more laid back and balanced, America is competitive, the extremes are more pronounced, they are either somewhat cruel (racist) or overly multi-culturalist and “woke” (on the other end).

    [MORE]

    If someone like Philipp Rösler grew in America, he’s much more likely to be belittled and beset with jokes about eating dogs

    What’s even more annoying is how some of these same people will cuck in front of more aggressive minorities, but will be abusive towards more mellow, peaceful ones like East Asians.

    Again that genre is subtly emasculating– and part of CCP’s game to keep Chinese men docile to rule over.

    Seriously? CCP would do that on purpose? I would think that they would do the opposite.

    It looks like in Fearless they tried to portray the Chinese guy as the most agile and competent. I think I’m starting to see what they’re trying to do in a lot of these more recent martial arts movies – the central role is usually a somewhat competent and attractive guy, but seemingly not too different from the average, who ends up having all these super qualities, who fights scarier, more “primitive” types and overcomes them, wins in the end and comes on top.

    By the way, in that Crouching Tiger scene I posted, what I liked the most about it wasn’t the fighting but the interior – the absolutely amazing medieval looking hall. It is only subtly luxurious, but it still exudes something old and majestic (I love how weapons are placed on the walls almost like artwork). Interestingly, this served as an inspiration for a modern interior design example in a mountain village in China:

    https://www.theplan.it/eng/award-2020-interior/crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon-it-shows-poetic-drama-language-zhou-he

    The traditional aspects are right in front of one’s eyes but not overdone, there is a sense of minimalism, yet plenty of detail, the wood exudes warmth and also provides nice, clean natural forms, the house is simultaneously old and modern, sitting harmoniously in the natural landscape.

    I don’t know how this would have the slightest appeal to white women, anymore than ping-pong or badminton players

    I browsed through a few martial arts movie titles and found a type who comes quite close. It is someone named Andy On. You can see him here (not the main hero but the one who is chasing the main hero, it starts at around 1:05, right after the “one man show”):

    He’s playing the more “primitive” fighter, while the main character is supposed to be “smarter” and they are both strong in their own way. The less “primitive” character wins in the end. Andy’s just more robust and more rugged looking than most of these characters. He must be in the top 1% of Chinese men in terms of athleticism.

    There is another, very different type that some young women might like, Mark Chao. He’s very refined and delicate, almost elvenlike, but he can pull it off very well:

    you have train weights and actual grappling and striking skills, like systema

    Systema is special in a sense that it was developed for survival in a compromised environment, such as when one has to catapult from a plane or when one has very limited means with which to fight and has to preserve strength or fight with limited strength (when injured for example). It was designed for the ultimate Cold War battle, if your plane force lands somewhere in Western Germany. It’s also very beautiful, playful and looks more “relaxed”.

    Nowadays, some of the Systema groups have tried to develop a mysticism around it, mostly Orthodox Christian (but I believe Slavic paganism would also be very appropriate for it). The tradition goes back before the Revolution, I think one of the guys who started it was really interested in Japan, but the Communist banned the martial arts. So this Systema was developed instead.

    The gym culture in China is only nascent, but speaking from experience East Asian guys get results from lifting as well as anyone else. I’m a taller gracile version of this 😉

    No kidding. Well, good for you then. 😊

  894. @German_reader
    @AP


    Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.
     
    But that's just that, a myth. In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia's Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it's just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine. And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity). His own vision for Ukraine also comes across as pretty totalitarian itself, not only would all ethnic enemies have been removed, he also believed in Führerprinzip (apparently even after WW2, when his attitude caused friction with other Ukrainian nationalists - Bandera probably ordered assassinations of some of them) and there would have been no other Ukrainian parties allowed in his state.
    And while Bandera was out of the picture for most of the war, other OUN people collaborated in more direct ways with Germany, in pursuit of their own interests. Shukhevych was part of an anti-partisan unit in Belarus in 1942/43 and presumably involved in atrocities there. OUN-B also infiltrated members into the police force in Volhynia where they aided the Germans in exterminating the Jews and acquired "skills" they would then use for UPA's anti-Polish campaign. Spinning that as anti-totalitarianism is just Cold War mythology.

    But the nature of the myths is not the same at all, the modern Banderist myth is much more congruent with modern European values.
     
    I have my own issues with modern "European values" and wouldn't counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That's very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn't compatible with "European values" at all, in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today's West like social equality and antiracism).

    Replies: @AP

    “Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism.”

    But that’s just that, a myth.

    Indeed. My point is that the myth is not in opposition to modern European values: he was an anti-colonialist freedom fighter who struggled against the two evil totalitarian systems, a struggle that inspired others decades later, eventually leading to Ukraine’s democracy.

    That this is a half-truth (or less than that) that ignores the crimes and the dictatorial ideology doesn’t change that.

    In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia’s Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it’s just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine.

    Correct. This decision by the Germans (not him) saved enough of Bandera’s reputation that he could be salvaged somewhat.

    And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity).

    By then it was clear that Germany would lose and was no longer a threat to Ukrainian independence; this was a tactical move driven by the hope that Germany could at least leave a much-weakened USSR.

    I have my own issues with modern “European values” and wouldn’t counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That’s very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn’t compatible with “European values” at all

    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN’s role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons). So the myth is compatible.

    in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today’s West like social equality and antiracism

    Maybe, but I was comparing the Banderist myth to the Stalin myth specifically.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP


    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN’s role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).
     
    In Polin Museum of Polish Jews in Warsaw there is a separate room devoted to the terror Jews had to suffer during Chmielnicki uprising, sometimes running away as far as Constantinople (Ottoman border was sometimes closer than proper Poland). I must say I was unaware how large the numbers of both the killed and refugees were... like tens of thousands (at least according to Polin).

    I see this as a both significant and repeating problem, a problem of continuity from Chmielnicki to Bandera that Ukrainian revolutionary movements weren't just armed fight for independence like Polish November or January Uprising, but also pretty unhinged terror actions against civilian populations they didn't like (but which could be resettled in case of Ukrainian victory on the battlefield).

    Replies: @AP

    , @German_reader
    @AP


    claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).
     
    According to the Bandera book, UPA killed virtually all of those Jews shortly before the arrival of the Soviets, quite perverse to spin this into a Holocaust rescue story.
    Ukrainians made a big mistake when they tried to establish OUN/UPA as national heroes, they should have swept these organizations under the carpet and forgotten about them. The amount of lying and distortions necessary to generate a heroic national narrative about them can't evince any sympathy from outside observers who are aware of the mendacity involved.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  895. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.

    Replies: @AP

    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?

    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.

    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity. Complexity can reduce unpredictability. Hunter-gatherers taking what they catch face unpredictability; managing livestock (feeding them, breeding them, caring for them, etc.) is more complex and more predictable way of obtaining meat than tracking prey. The process of saving seeds from the last harvest and planting them, building and running irrigation systems, keeping track of planting schedules (which may involve some rudimentary knowledge of astronomy) is both a more complex and a more predictable way of obtaining fruits and grains than harvesting wild ones.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.

    Brain organization is more important than volume: Einstein’s brain was below average in size, but organized differently. We don’t know how those ancient brains were structured in terms of things like cortical thickness.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.
     
    Well, I was writing about metrics to measure systems' level of complexity. What you wrote about is quite interesting, but in terms of units of information needed to describe each part and parcel of the system, a mature ecosystem beats down anything we could possibly achieve as urban landscape. It is also more optimal from thermodynamics pov and it is obviously environment-friendly. It is also self-perpetuating as long as the environmental conditions don't change too drastically. Nothing we could possibly build compares to that.

    http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Complexity#:~:text=from%20random%20systems.-,Complexity%20as%20Structure%20and%20Information,or%20interactions%20within%20a%20system.

    http://www.ciesin.org/docs/002-109/002-109.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7517404/

    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity.
     

    https://www.britannica.com/science/complexity-scientific-theory/Predictability

    Any complex system is less predictable. And any mature ecosystem is way much complex, integrated and organized that anything we can build today. This is entirely reasonable because life has been optimizing the flows of energy and information for a billion years on this planet alone, and possibly elsewhere if we believe in Panspermia (entirely believable from the astrobiology pov).

    I get now why you believe human civilization has created more complexity. It is simply because just as you are a classical conservative in your political and social opinions, you are also a classical humanist when it comes to looking at human interaction with their environment.

    I respect that, but from the point of view of systems theory, biology, thermodynamics, information
    science, humans are not the be all end all pinnacles of Creation. When objectively measured the efficiency of the biological cell's thermodynamics is orders of magnitude above anything we could build in chemical engineering. Same if we measure its information content. Same if we look at the total complexity of a mature ecosystem (myriads of cells working together) vs the most sophisticated urban landscape humans could possibly bulldoze it into.

    Life is optimal compared to technology.

    Technologism is Demiurge's thinking.

    Антихристово добро (которое до добра не доведёт).

    Природа - божий свет и божий мир.

    Мир in Russian is from the same root as Mehr in Iranian - Mithras in Greek. The divine concord and agreement - interbeing.

    But that's another matter altogether.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

  896. @QCIC
    @A123

    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.

    Replies: @A123

    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.

    In Red States — Judeo-Christian ideas are winning.
    In 卐lue States — SJW, anti-Christian, neo-Nazis are ahead.

    De-Nazification is essential. The most humane option is a Constitution 2.0 that does not allow dole critters to vote.

    The specifics must be negotiated. However, the simple truth is that useless eaters must be non-citizens.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Sher Singh
    @A123

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg

  897. @Greasy William
    @German_reader


    I think it’s most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition
     
    Er, not unless Russia's timeline is like 20 years.

    Russia can kill ~20,000 Ukrainian soldiers a year. Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice but probably no more than 450,000. So you are talking about 15 to 20 years before you have bled Ukraine into submission, and who knows what happens inside Russia during that time. Keep in mind that every year the Ukrainians become better equipped and better trained.

    Replies: @QCIC, @Wokechoke, @Beckow

    …Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice

    The numbers are just a guess…Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more. Kiev’s available, capable manpower could be from 300k to 3 millions. There are also the foreign forces.

    Your ‘15 to 20 years‘ is very imprecise, it could be 1 year or ‘never’. The attrition is about morale, willingness to stand ground, weapons. Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.

    But something else could happen: neo-cons are sensing that time is not on their side and will have to try something new. They are now busily brain-storming over buffets and maps, god help us

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    The numbers are just a guess…Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more.
     
    That's not what Strelikov says.

    Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.
     
    What can Russia do that they haven't done already? When NATO destroys country, it mostly uses bombs. Russia can't use bombs because their bombers can't get through Ukrainian air defense. Cruise missiles are not going to be sufficient and they are only going to become less effective with time as Ukrainian missile defense capabilities grow. Time does not appear to be on Russia's side.

    The only feasible escalatory path available to Russia is full war mobilization, which the Kremlin is clearly uninterested in.

    Replies: @Beckow

  898. @AP
    @German_reader


    "Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism."

    But that’s just that, a myth.
     
    Indeed. My point is that the myth is not in opposition to modern European values: he was an anti-colonialist freedom fighter who struggled against the two evil totalitarian systems, a struggle that inspired others decades later, eventually leading to Ukraine's democracy.

    That this is a half-truth (or less than that) that ignores the crimes and the dictatorial ideology doesn't change that.

    In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia’s Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it’s just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine.
     
    Correct. This decision by the Germans (not him) saved enough of Bandera's reputation that he could be salvaged somewhat.

    And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity).
     
    By then it was clear that Germany would lose and was no longer a threat to Ukrainian independence; this was a tactical move driven by the hope that Germany could at least leave a much-weakened USSR.

    I have my own issues with modern “European values” and wouldn’t counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That’s very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn’t compatible with “European values” at all
     
    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN's role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did - but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons). So the myth is compatible.

    in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today’s West like social equality and antiracism
     
    Maybe, but I was comparing the Banderist myth to the Stalin myth specifically.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @German_reader

    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN’s role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).

    In Polin Museum of Polish Jews in Warsaw there is a separate room devoted to the terror Jews had to suffer during Chmielnicki uprising, sometimes running away as far as Constantinople (Ottoman border was sometimes closer than proper Poland). I must say I was unaware how large the numbers of both the killed and refugees were… like tens of thousands (at least according to Polin).

    I see this as a both significant and repeating problem, a problem of continuity from Chmielnicki to Bandera that Ukrainian revolutionary movements weren’t just armed fight for independence like Polish November or January Uprising, but also pretty unhinged terror actions against civilian populations they didn’t like (but which could be resettled in case of Ukrainian victory on the battlefield).

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    In Polin Museum of Polish Jews in Warsaw there is a separate room devoted to the terror Jews had to suffer during Chmielnicki uprising, sometimes running away as far as Constantinople (Ottoman border was sometimes closer than proper Poland). I must say I was unaware how large the numbers of both the killed and refugees were… like tens of thousands (at least according to Polin).
     
    These figures have kept getting revised downward. The most recent (2003) non-Ukrainian source I've seen estimated 18,000-20,000 Jews killed out of a total population in the affected area of 40,000.

    I see this as a both significant and repeating problem, a problem of continuity from Chmielnicki to Bandera that Ukrainian revolutionary movements weren’t just armed fight for independence like Polish November or January Uprising, but also pretty unhinged terror actions against civilian populations they didn’t like
     
    Poland's historical record has been remarkably humane, but it's wrong to single out Ukrainians from this perspective. Americans and Brits incinerated 100,000s of German and Japanese civilians for reasons far more dubious than the OUN's massacres, and engaged in various other atrocities. I once spoke to a US veteran from the "Butcher's brigade" who told me about making necklaces from the teeth of Japanese they had butchered, throwing young Japanese prisoners out of airplanes for fun, etc. Nobody is calling for the cancellation of the America's "greatest generation" who fought that war.

    Around the time of Khmelytsky's uprising, German and Swedish forces were massacring far more civilians during their religious wars. There was nothing particularly bloody about his treasonous rebellion. The French still use the national anthem of the bloody Revolutionaries who massacred 100,000+ civilians in the Vendee and guillotined 10,000s more.

    It should be noted that in such a situation a better choice for Ukraine would be perhaps no national heroes at all at the moment (new ones could be shaped on battlefields), well, at least no national heroes at arms.
     
    Sure, after almost everyone else throws away the fighters of World War II (the Brits are already starting to cancel Churchill who wanted to gas natives somewhere) and most of the others, too, for being "problematic." Don't single out Ukrainians.
  899. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    The deaths of Ukrainian conscripts are the obscene 'collateral damage' of Russia trying to kill as many future troublemakers as possible. Most of the surviving draftees will not become hardened guerrilla fighters after the SMO ends, they just want to go home.

    The Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine. The last Presidential election had massive irregularities and the media completely squelched all discussion; integrity of elections was barely a topic worthy of conversation in the recent US election.

    Same for COVID, Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Replies: @Beckow

    …Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine

    It wouldn’t be easy. The Neocons have three objectives:
    – US global supremacy
    – destroy, diminish and control Russia
    – Izrael and M East

    Everything else interests them only as feeder conflicts for the above: the control of Europe is a lukewarm hands-off goal most of the time, China is not an enemy, they see it as an ‘alien’ but useful other civilization that can be used – China has allowed itself to be used for the last few decades. Their heart is in defeating Russia and in unquestionable support for Izrael.

    The loss in Ukraine would devastate them. It would be an end of a 50-75 year old dream – it goes back few generations. They will do everything to keep some hope for a restart in the future – we see it in the latest statements by their front-men, often not neo-cons themselves. The new line is: ‘Russia can’t win across the board, we must keep them from doing another WW2 victory by any means, resist!!!…no matter the cost‘…

    They can mitigate the loss by sacrificing huge numbers of Ukie soldiers and by throwing all they have ($, weapons, propaganda…) to the war. This is an obsession and obsessions are a form of siege – one can’t escape. They can’t shake it off. That’s what makes it so interesting. Until maybe it will become too much so…

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Beckow

    I don't see the Ukraine mess as simply a NeoCon obsession based on ideas like "Russia=Bad" and all that. Kolomoisky and his ilk are not NeoCons. I am still waiting for someone at Unz to flesh out the details of the "reclaim the pale of settlement project" which may be an important concept to help understand the ongoing destruction of Ukraine.

    If investigation of the "Reclaimed Pale" angle doesn't improve our understanding, then I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn't put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @Beckow

  900. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    The two sides are so far apart that Macron – the ever-earnest Frenchie idiot – has just said that the goal is not ‘destroying’ Russia, only defeating it.
     
    Compared to lunatics like Morawiecki and other PiS cretins who are talking about breaking up Russian federation ("Freedom for Chechnya!") Macron is a moderate. But of course he's got nothing to offer to Russia and has only very limited influence in the Western camp.
    Anyway, I once wouldn't have expected it, but I mostly agree with your analysis. I think it's most likely Russia is going to win through sheer attrition. Maybe not in the sense of Russian tanks driving through Kiev, but in the sense that continuing the war will become too costly for Ukraine. Unless NATO intervenes directly, I don't see how Ukraine's stated goals could be achievable. And if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war (hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly by and watch Russia being defeated, nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario) and devastate central Europe at least.
    Should all have been eminently avoidable, what a disaster.

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Greasy William, @Beckow

    …Macron is a moderate

    He plays one. There are no ‘moderates‘ but some are designated as potential intermediaries. What Macron said reveals behind-the-scene discussions: they are trying to calibrate. Almost certainly they will go for the maximum.

    if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war…hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly… nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario…and devastate central Europe at least.

    I can’t imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f…ed.

    The ‘directly’ can be interpreted differently. But without an intervention the Ukies won’t hold. Russia doesn’t look like they will hold back or stop.

    A soft exit would give Russia a win with a face-saving story for the West that it is a “Pyrrhic victory’, Ukies are coming back, some of the Ukie-land has been preserved, China-India are squeezing profits from Russia, and Parmesan cheese will never again be shipped to Moscow! The Western media is capable of spinning that.

    What a self-inflicted disaster – kind of like the Teutoburg defeat, marching north-east with loyal allies, unaware of the geography, full of hubris and divine will…

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Beckow


    I can’t imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f…ed.
     
    If it comes to the worst, I hope it won't be limited to central Europe. If there's a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn't be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

  901. @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...Ukraine can suffer at least 250,000 war dead before it would have to sign an armistice
     
    The numbers are just a guess...Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more. Kiev's available, capable manpower could be from 300k to 3 millions. There are also the foreign forces.

    Your '15 to 20 years' is very imprecise, it could be 1 year or 'never'. The attrition is about morale, willingness to stand ground, weapons. Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.

    But something else could happen: neo-cons are sensing that time is not on their side and will have to try something new. They are now busily brain-storming over buffets and maps, god help us...

    Replies: @Greasy William

    The numbers are just a guess…Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more.

    That’s not what Strelikov says.

    Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.

    What can Russia do that they haven’t done already? When NATO destroys country, it mostly uses bombs. Russia can’t use bombs because their bombers can’t get through Ukrainian air defense. Cruise missiles are not going to be sufficient and they are only going to become less effective with time as Ukrainian missile defense capabilities grow. Time does not appear to be on Russia’s side.

    The only feasible escalatory path available to Russia is full war mobilization, which the Kremlin is clearly uninterested in.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Greasy William

    You are underestimating missiles. Nato used a lot of remote bombing when destroying Serbia, Iraq, Libya...it really isn't that different. Russia can obliterate Kiev, Lviv, or any city. They have not done it because they don't have the same Nato ruthless mentality when enemies are simply declared 'subhuman'. Look back at the front-page coverage for the Nato wars - they were literally giddy about blowing things up. Russia could do it and Ukies know it. It is the self-restraint that has kept it from happening.

    I have no idea who 'Strelikov' is. If you don't agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why. I don't think a large country like Ukraine can be attrited. But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit - Ukieland is right on Russia's border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles. The defense only works partially. It would be a blood-bath.

    Replies: @Greasy William

  902. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    The numbers are just a guess…Kiev has already lost 100k soldiers, probably lot more.
     
    That's not what Strelikov says.

    Russia can attrit the Ukies this spring if they go completely medieval (=Nato-like) on them.
     
    What can Russia do that they haven't done already? When NATO destroys country, it mostly uses bombs. Russia can't use bombs because their bombers can't get through Ukrainian air defense. Cruise missiles are not going to be sufficient and they are only going to become less effective with time as Ukrainian missile defense capabilities grow. Time does not appear to be on Russia's side.

    The only feasible escalatory path available to Russia is full war mobilization, which the Kremlin is clearly uninterested in.

    Replies: @Beckow

    You are underestimating missiles. Nato used a lot of remote bombing when destroying Serbia, Iraq, Libya…it really isn’t that different. Russia can obliterate Kiev, Lviv, or any city. They have not done it because they don’t have the same Nato ruthless mentality when enemies are simply declared ‘subhuman‘. Look back at the front-page coverage for the Nato wars – they were literally giddy about blowing things up. Russia could do it and Ukies know it. It is the self-restraint that has kept it from happening.

    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is. If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why. I don’t think a large country like Ukraine can be attrited. But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles. The defense only works partially. It would be a blood-bath.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

    If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why
     
    Because Strelkov and Rolo (https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/) both think that Ukrainian KIA are in the 30-45k range. One reason I really like Rolo's analysis is, although he himself is a Russian ultra nationalist, because he actually has Ukrainian family members who are currently living in Kiev. Their estimates are consistent with the estimates of Western intelligence services. There are times that I think that Russia will win this war, but I always have felt reasonably confident that Ukrainian losses are in line with the consensus estimates.

    But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles.
     
    And this is where we differ. I don't believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already. How many missiles, of all types, would it take to shut down Ukrainian power plants and destroy all Ukrainian arms depots? I would imagine at least 1000 per day over the course of months.


    I do want to say one last thing about manpower shortages: the Nazis were showing many signs of a severe manpower crunch by mid 1942. And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men (less than 2 million below their peak numbers). So I don't take too seriously the idea that either side is in danger of running out of people in the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow, @QCIC

  903. @Beckow
    @Greasy William

    You are underestimating missiles. Nato used a lot of remote bombing when destroying Serbia, Iraq, Libya...it really isn't that different. Russia can obliterate Kiev, Lviv, or any city. They have not done it because they don't have the same Nato ruthless mentality when enemies are simply declared 'subhuman'. Look back at the front-page coverage for the Nato wars - they were literally giddy about blowing things up. Russia could do it and Ukies know it. It is the self-restraint that has kept it from happening.

    I have no idea who 'Strelikov' is. If you don't agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why. I don't think a large country like Ukraine can be attrited. But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit - Ukieland is right on Russia's border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles. The defense only works partially. It would be a blood-bath.

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

    If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why

    Because Strelkov and Rolo (https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/) both think that Ukrainian KIA are in the 30-45k range. One reason I really like Rolo’s analysis is, although he himself is a Russian ultra nationalist, because he actually has Ukrainian family members who are currently living in Kiev. Their estimates are consistent with the estimates of Western intelligence services. There are times that I think that Russia will win this war, but I always have felt reasonably confident that Ukrainian losses are in line with the consensus estimates.

    But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles.

    And this is where we differ. I don’t believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already. How many missiles, of all types, would it take to shut down Ukrainian power plants and destroy all Ukrainian arms depots? I would imagine at least 1000 per day over the course of months.

    I do want to say one last thing about manpower shortages: the Nazis were showing many signs of a severe manpower crunch by mid 1942. And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men (less than 2 million below their peak numbers). So I don’t take too seriously the idea that either side is in danger of running out of people in the foreseeable future.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men
     
    Conscientious objectors faced the death penalty in Nazi Germany. As did deserters. There are photographs from 1944/45 of those hanged for suspected desertion, with placards of the sort "He who fights, can die. He who doesn't fight, must die". Is Ukraine willing to go that far and will its western sponsors be happy about it?
    And there wasn't really a way to escape military service in Nazi Germany, unless you somehow managed to make it to Sweden. Despite the ban on leaving, it should be much easier for Ukrainian men who don't want to be called up to make it abroad. Even in their present war enthusiasm EU countries won't be able to send them back to fight and die, it couldn't be sold to the public (especially given bs like accepting Eritrean draft dodgers as refugees).
    So the comparison doesn't really work imo.

    @Wokechoke: There aren't 800 Leopards available for Ukraine, the Greeks and Turks won't hand over theirs (need them for potentially shooting at each other). The entire Leopard business was a political farce organized by PiS Poland and Britain, mainly designed to fuck over Germany even more. Militarily it didn't make much sense.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Beckow
    @Greasy William

    The numbers are probably higher than you say, but the 100k could include heavily wounded - people not coming back to fight. Effectively the same thing. But this will not end with either side running out of bodies.


    ...I don’t believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already
     
    Why not? They can ramp up 10-fold if they need to. You overestimate how many missiles are needed, 1k/day? If they aim at easier targets - city centers, bridges, government buildings, TV stations, like Nato does - they don't need that many. Lviv could be flattened with 100 missiles that get through...the impact on morale would be catastrophic, and AP's dream of an IT heaven-call center paradise with bars and women for the Nato guys and 'we shoot anyone who speaks Russian!!!' would evaporate...
    , @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    Missiles should be used to destroy air defense assets (may require saturation attacks) and high value point targets, with aerial bombing used to attack broad area targets.

    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of 'ultra-nationalists' to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  904. @songbird
    When Mel Gibson made Braveheart, I wonder how many people thought that a Paki, who said that Scotland was too white, would be nominating himself to be leader of Scotland in 2023.

    Or that subcons would be going for a likely trifecta of rule in the British isles. Quite bizarre, IMO. Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?

    Replies: @Wokechoke, @Coconuts

    Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?

    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.

    A lot of young people seem to look to socialism to solve every problem and if a Labour government is elected as predicted, whatever it can achieve I doubt it will meet these expectations. Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the ‘low information’ voter part of the population by then as well.

    I was going to post a link to Douglas Murray’s article in the Spectator about the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo’s ‘Great Railway Journeys’ series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation, but Sailer had beaten me to it.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Coconuts


    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.
     
    A while back, I listened to an old tape of Rod Serling talking to college kids in the '60s, and he kept talking about a 'white lash.' (he seemed a real unpleasant character, politically speaking). But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.

    Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the ‘low information’ voter part of the population by then as well.
     
    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.

    the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo’s ‘Great Railway Journeys’ series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation
     
    I find it really bizarre that they put The Great Escape on the list, since it shows the Gestapo machine-gunning British POWs. I wonder if it is because Steve McQueen, who had Scot ancestry, was very Nordic-looking, and blond heroes are kind of semi-verboten, especially very daring ones, that in some way personified some masculine ideal.

    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare - for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.

    I also wonder if it was an Indian who found Four Feathers offensive. Did not think the book was widely read today, and the most recent movie seemed fairly woke, IIRC, with its promotion of a black African. Maybe, they googled "novels of the empire period", or something.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

  905. German_reader says:
    @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...Macron is a moderate
     
    He plays one. There are no 'moderates' but some are designated as potential intermediaries. What Macron said reveals behind-the-scene discussions: they are trying to calibrate. Almost certainly they will go for the maximum.

    if NATO does intervene directly, it will probably be a world war...hard to imagine China and Iran standing idly... nor will the latter forego use of its nuclear weapons in such a scenario...and devastate central Europe at least.
     
    I can't imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f...ed.

    The 'directly' can be interpreted differently. But without an intervention the Ukies won't hold. Russia doesn't look like they will hold back or stop.

    A soft exit would give Russia a win with a face-saving story for the West that it is a "Pyrrhic victory', Ukies are coming back, some of the Ukie-land has been preserved, China-India are squeezing profits from Russia, and Parmesan cheese will never again be shipped to Moscow! The Western media is capable of spinning that.

    What a self-inflicted disaster - kind of like the Teutoburg defeat, marching north-east with loyal allies, unaware of the geography, full of hubris and divine will...

    Replies: @German_reader

    I can’t imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f…ed.

    If it comes to the worst, I hope it won’t be limited to central Europe. If there’s a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @German_reader


    ...The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.
     
    I agree, but it won't be up to us - it will be up to Russia, they probably already have a hierarchy of targets. My guess is that after the military bases, follow some Polish cities at the top, UK, then probably Czechia-Lithuania-Romania, western Germany (Munich, Stuttgart probably)...something French....and at the bottom the safest places would be Italy, Hungary, Austria, Latvia-Estonia (Russian minorities), eastern Germany...in Bratislava the joke is that due to our close proximity to Wien we would be safe...

    Last year it was 5%, we are up to maybe 10%, at this rate by the end of the year 20%...the problem is that events with 1 in 5 chance happen all the time...

    , @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    If there’s a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.
     
    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?...I don't buy it for one minute. And February 24, 2022 was the last possible date for Russia to react in this hostile manner? And besides, wouldn't it actually be much easier to destroy Russia and this point instead of the US? I mean if it actually came to something like this (you first brought up the possibility, and I take you to be a serious person).

    Replies: @German_reader

  906. German_reader says:
    @AP
    @German_reader


    "Their myth emphasizes that Bandera was incarcerated in a German concentration camp and consider his struggle to have been mostly against totalitarian Communism and Nazism."

    But that’s just that, a myth.
     
    Indeed. My point is that the myth is not in opposition to modern European values: he was an anti-colonialist freedom fighter who struggled against the two evil totalitarian systems, a struggle that inspired others decades later, eventually leading to Ukraine's democracy.

    That this is a half-truth (or less than that) that ignores the crimes and the dictatorial ideology doesn't change that.

    In reality Bandera would have very much liked to head something like Croatia’s Ustasha state in a German-dominated Europe, it’s just that the Germans had other plans for Ukraine.
     
    Correct. This decision by the Germans (not him) saved enough of Bandera's reputation that he could be salvaged somewhat.

    And he was still interested in collaboration with Germany as late as 1944 (when he was released from captivity).
     
    By then it was clear that Germany would lose and was no longer a threat to Ukrainian independence; this was a tactical move driven by the hope that Germany could at least leave a much-weakened USSR.

    I have my own issues with modern “European values” and wouldn’t counsel Ukrainians to adopt them uncritically. But a key component of them is Holocaust as negative foundation myth and total rejection of historical fascism. That’s very problematical in a lot of ways, but it means that no, the Bandera cult isn’t compatible with “European values” at all
     
    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN's role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did - but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons). So the myth is compatible.

    in fact probably less so than a nostalgic view of Communism (which did have decades of non mass-murdering existence after all and at least paid lip service to many of the values esteemed in today’s West like social equality and antiracism
     
    Maybe, but I was comparing the Banderist myth to the Stalin myth specifically.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @German_reader

    claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).

    According to the Bandera book, UPA killed virtually all of those Jews shortly before the arrival of the Soviets, quite perverse to spin this into a Holocaust rescue story.
    Ukrainians made a big mistake when they tried to establish OUN/UPA as national heroes, they should have swept these organizations under the carpet and forgotten about them. The amount of lying and distortions necessary to generate a heroic national narrative about them can’t evince any sympathy from outside observers who are aware of the mendacity involved.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @German_reader


    The amount of lying and distortions necessary to generate a heroic national narrative about them can’t evince any sympathy from outside observers who are aware of the mendacity involved.
     
    It should be noted that in such a situation a better choice for Ukraine would be perhaps no national heroes at all at the moment (new ones could be shaped on battlefields), well, at least no national heroes at arms. Ukraine, as a young nation-state is fully entitled to such a solution, which also would testify to the sincere will of Ukrainian people of making a morally fresh start as a nation.
  907. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    I can’t imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f…ed.
     
    If it comes to the worst, I hope it won't be limited to central Europe. If there's a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn't be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

    …The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    I agree, but it won’t be up to us – it will be up to Russia, they probably already have a hierarchy of targets. My guess is that after the military bases, follow some Polish cities at the top, UK, then probably Czechia-Lithuania-Romania, western Germany (Munich, Stuttgart probably)…something French….and at the bottom the safest places would be Italy, Hungary, Austria, Latvia-Estonia (Russian minorities), eastern Germany…in Bratislava the joke is that due to our close proximity to Wien we would be safe…

    Last year it was 5%, we are up to maybe 10%, at this rate by the end of the year 20%…the problem is that events with 1 in 5 chance happen all the time…

  908. German_reader says:
    @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

    If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why
     
    Because Strelkov and Rolo (https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/) both think that Ukrainian KIA are in the 30-45k range. One reason I really like Rolo's analysis is, although he himself is a Russian ultra nationalist, because he actually has Ukrainian family members who are currently living in Kiev. Their estimates are consistent with the estimates of Western intelligence services. There are times that I think that Russia will win this war, but I always have felt reasonably confident that Ukrainian losses are in line with the consensus estimates.

    But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles.
     
    And this is where we differ. I don't believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already. How many missiles, of all types, would it take to shut down Ukrainian power plants and destroy all Ukrainian arms depots? I would imagine at least 1000 per day over the course of months.


    I do want to say one last thing about manpower shortages: the Nazis were showing many signs of a severe manpower crunch by mid 1942. And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men (less than 2 million below their peak numbers). So I don't take too seriously the idea that either side is in danger of running out of people in the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow, @QCIC

    And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men

    Conscientious objectors faced the death penalty in Nazi Germany. As did deserters. There are photographs from 1944/45 of those hanged for suspected desertion, with placards of the sort “He who fights, can die. He who doesn’t fight, must die”. Is Ukraine willing to go that far and will its western sponsors be happy about it?
    And there wasn’t really a way to escape military service in Nazi Germany, unless you somehow managed to make it to Sweden. Despite the ban on leaving, it should be much easier for Ukrainian men who don’t want to be called up to make it abroad. Even in their present war enthusiasm EU countries won’t be able to send them back to fight and die, it couldn’t be sold to the public (especially given bs like accepting Eritrean draft dodgers as refugees).
    So the comparison doesn’t really work imo.

    : There aren’t 800 Leopards available for Ukraine, the Greeks and Turks won’t hand over theirs (need them for potentially shooting at each other). The entire Leopard business was a political farce organized by PiS Poland and Britain, mainly designed to fuck over Germany even more. Militarily it didn’t make much sense.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @German_reader

    In early May 1945 in southern Czechia a German unit caught two 'deserters' - middle-aged guys in civilian clothes who were walking home, their papers were 'not in order'. They shot them on a bridge. The war ended a few days later...

    Ukies are nowhere close to that level of devotion or discipline...but they don't need millions, the few hundred thousand clueless small-town chubby men with no place to run and no initiative will suffice...

  909. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

    If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why
     
    Because Strelkov and Rolo (https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/) both think that Ukrainian KIA are in the 30-45k range. One reason I really like Rolo's analysis is, although he himself is a Russian ultra nationalist, because he actually has Ukrainian family members who are currently living in Kiev. Their estimates are consistent with the estimates of Western intelligence services. There are times that I think that Russia will win this war, but I always have felt reasonably confident that Ukrainian losses are in line with the consensus estimates.

    But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles.
     
    And this is where we differ. I don't believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already. How many missiles, of all types, would it take to shut down Ukrainian power plants and destroy all Ukrainian arms depots? I would imagine at least 1000 per day over the course of months.


    I do want to say one last thing about manpower shortages: the Nazis were showing many signs of a severe manpower crunch by mid 1942. And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men (less than 2 million below their peak numbers). So I don't take too seriously the idea that either side is in danger of running out of people in the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow, @QCIC

    The numbers are probably higher than you say, but the 100k could include heavily wounded – people not coming back to fight. Effectively the same thing. But this will not end with either side running out of bodies.

    …I don’t believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already

    Why not? They can ramp up 10-fold if they need to. You overestimate how many missiles are needed, 1k/day? If they aim at easier targets – city centers, bridges, government buildings, TV stations, like Nato does – they don’t need that many. Lviv could be flattened with 100 missiles that get through…the impact on morale would be catastrophic, and AP’s dream of an IT heaven-call center paradise with bars and women for the Nato guys and ‘we shoot anyone who speaks Russian!!!’ would evaporate…

  910. @German_reader
    @Greasy William


    And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men
     
    Conscientious objectors faced the death penalty in Nazi Germany. As did deserters. There are photographs from 1944/45 of those hanged for suspected desertion, with placards of the sort "He who fights, can die. He who doesn't fight, must die". Is Ukraine willing to go that far and will its western sponsors be happy about it?
    And there wasn't really a way to escape military service in Nazi Germany, unless you somehow managed to make it to Sweden. Despite the ban on leaving, it should be much easier for Ukrainian men who don't want to be called up to make it abroad. Even in their present war enthusiasm EU countries won't be able to send them back to fight and die, it couldn't be sold to the public (especially given bs like accepting Eritrean draft dodgers as refugees).
    So the comparison doesn't really work imo.

    @Wokechoke: There aren't 800 Leopards available for Ukraine, the Greeks and Turks won't hand over theirs (need them for potentially shooting at each other). The entire Leopard business was a political farce organized by PiS Poland and Britain, mainly designed to fuck over Germany even more. Militarily it didn't make much sense.

    Replies: @Beckow

    In early May 1945 in southern Czechia a German unit caught two ‘deserters’ – middle-aged guys in civilian clothes who were walking home, their papers were ‘not in order‘. They shot them on a bridge. The war ended a few days later…

    Ukies are nowhere close to that level of devotion or discipline…but they don’t need millions, the few hundred thousand clueless small-town chubby men with no place to run and no initiative will suffice…

  911. @German_reader
    @AP


    claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).
     
    According to the Bandera book, UPA killed virtually all of those Jews shortly before the arrival of the Soviets, quite perverse to spin this into a Holocaust rescue story.
    Ukrainians made a big mistake when they tried to establish OUN/UPA as national heroes, they should have swept these organizations under the carpet and forgotten about them. The amount of lying and distortions necessary to generate a heroic national narrative about them can't evince any sympathy from outside observers who are aware of the mendacity involved.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    The amount of lying and distortions necessary to generate a heroic national narrative about them can’t evince any sympathy from outside observers who are aware of the mendacity involved.

    It should be noted that in such a situation a better choice for Ukraine would be perhaps no national heroes at all at the moment (new ones could be shaped on battlefields), well, at least no national heroes at arms. Ukraine, as a young nation-state is fully entitled to such a solution, which also would testify to the sincere will of Ukrainian people of making a morally fresh start as a nation.

  912. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    How do you measure complexity of an urban environment versus a natural one and why do you believe that civilization increases complexity compared to native mature ecosystems ?
     
    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.

    My understanding is that it is exactly the opposite which is happening. The total complexity is reduced when an environment is transformed by the civilization. The civilized world with its artificial man made structures, patterns and rules is way more predictable than natural environments.
     
    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity. Complexity can reduce unpredictability. Hunter-gatherers taking what they catch face unpredictability; managing livestock (feeding them, breeding them, caring for them, etc.) is more complex and more predictable way of obtaining meat than tracking prey. The process of saving seeds from the last harvest and planting them, building and running irrigation systems, keeping track of planting schedules (which may involve some rudimentary knowledge of astronomy) is both a more complex and a more predictable way of obtaining fruits and grains than harvesting wild ones.

    Predictability is what allowed for the reduction in the volume of the brain in post Neolithic Revolution human populations.
     
    Brain organization is more important than volume: Einstein's brain was below average in size, but organized differently. We don't know how those ancient brains were structured in terms of things like cortical thickness.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.

    Well, I was writing about metrics to measure systems’ level of complexity. What you wrote about is quite interesting, but in terms of units of information needed to describe each part and parcel of the system, a mature ecosystem beats down anything we could possibly achieve as urban landscape. It is also more optimal from thermodynamics pov and it is obviously environment-friendly. It is also self-perpetuating as long as the environmental conditions don’t change too drastically. Nothing we could possibly build compares to that.

    [MORE]

    http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Complexity#:~:text=from%20random%20systems.-,Complexity%20as%20Structure%20and%20Information,or%20interactions%20within%20a%20system.

    http://www.ciesin.org/docs/002-109/002-109.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7517404/

    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity.

    https://www.britannica.com/science/complexity-scientific-theory/Predictability

    Any complex system is less predictable. And any mature ecosystem is way much complex, integrated and organized that anything we can build today. This is entirely reasonable because life has been optimizing the flows of energy and information for a billion years on this planet alone, and possibly elsewhere if we believe in Panspermia (entirely believable from the astrobiology pov).

    I get now why you believe human civilization has created more complexity. It is simply because just as you are a classical conservative in your political and social opinions, you are also a classical humanist when it comes to looking at human interaction with their environment.

    I respect that, but from the point of view of systems theory, biology, thermodynamics, information
    science, humans are not the be all end all pinnacles of Creation. When objectively measured the efficiency of the biological cell’s thermodynamics is orders of magnitude above anything we could build in chemical engineering. Same if we measure its information content. Same if we look at the total complexity of a mature ecosystem (myriads of cells working together) vs the most sophisticated urban landscape humans could possibly bulldoze it into.

    Life is optimal compared to technology.

    Technologism is Demiurge’s thinking.

    Антихристово добро (которое до добра не доведёт).

    Природа – божий свет и божий мир.

    Мир in Russian is from the same root as Mehr in Iranian – Mithras in Greek. The divine concord and agreement – interbeing.

    But that’s another matter altogether.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Life is optimal compared to technology.
    Technologism is Demiurge’s thinking.
     
    They are not concerned with optimization or complexity.

    What they want is power and control.

    Did you know Rudolf Steiner had Red pill Blue pill (sort of)?

    His parallel construction was reddest blood vessels with plenty of oxygen versus bluest blood vessels with plenty of carbon dioxide. On the other hand calling it the Demiurge might not be the greatest tactic. Yes the blue pilled are in the Devil's army but mostly they don't know it and they are likely to find it a little rude if we point it out to them. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Thank you for the thoughtful response. What you state is correct, but it seems as if we are talking past each other here.

    I was not arguing that man-made environments and objects (the product of civilization) are more complex than natural ones. Of course cells are more complex than most man-made objects. But rather that man's role in his environment and relationship to it becomes far more complex in civilization, as he creates and uses these simpler-than-raw-nature objects and manages a simpler-than-nature man-made environment. Doing so forces civilized people to be more complex than their predecessors. A natural riverine ecosystem is more complex than a predictable system of more or less uniform irrigation canals and rice fields, but someone managing the irrigation canals for the purpose of agriculture and doing so in the necessary context of a huge web of social networks is involved in far more complexity than someone just gathering berries on the edge of the riverbank with a band of a dozen close relatives. Yes, a cell is far more complex than a flint arrowhead, windmill, a telescope, or an alphabet, but most humans don't deal with cells.


    Природа – божий свет и божий мир.
     
    Correct, and we were also Природа. All of us, even our brains and therefore what we can produce with those brains and how we can appreciate what we have produced. Our cathedrals are just as natural as complex crystals and our choices to build what we consider to be beautiful is just as natural as the wind shaping stone over thousands of years, and even our choices to pour soot into the air is just as natural as the destruction made by volcanic eruptions. But remember that God incarnated as one of us, we are totally natural but at the same time of a higher order within this nature.
  913. @Ivashka the fool
    @Yahya


    Sure, but Cochran and Harpending are neither PC nor anti-racist; in fact quite the opposite. The former has been described as a white supremacist; and if you read his blog “West Hunter” you’ll see he has no sympathy for non-whites; sometimes makes quite cutting remarks. Razib Khan is another non-PC geneticist I follow who subscribes to the OOA theory.
     
    I think that their personal convictions are unimportant. If they work inside ROA hypothesis framework, then their analysis would be skewed and biased by the normative interpretation of human evolution. This normative interpretation is inherently progressive.

    I believe the normative date given for branching out is 70,000 years ago:

     

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34230096/

    Those in Africa survived, others not so much. The Y haplogroups of the Eurasian genetic lineages are separated from the African ones by ~ 160k years. A lot of things could happen in 160k years. Moreover, a couple of African Y lineages are not easily connected to the common Y haplogroup tree, suggesting that African AMH have also had introgression from some paleo-anthropic population.

    Finally, it is currently unknown if Homo heidelbergensis (H. h.) arose in Africa or Eurasia.

    https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/the-history-of-our-tribe-hominini/chapter/homo-heidelbergensis/

    AMH might have evolved from H. h. everywhere H. h. was present, and then migrated back to the original land of our early hominid ancestors with most early Eurasian AMH populations being exterminated by the Toba megavolcano erruption and the African ones surviving this catastrophe.


    C&H assert that population size caused an increase in novel allele production following the agricultural revolution. Farming allowed the support of many times more people than hunting and gathering. The larger the population; the more mutations, whether positive, negative or neutral.
     
    This is correct and impossible to argue against. But it doesn't mean that "evolution has accelerated". Mutation rate is rather constant.

    What time period are you talking about here? And when do you think our phenotype stopped changing?
     
    I am thinking of the period post Neolithic Revolution and the start of the early agricultural lifestyle. Make it more or less Natufian Culture.

    I have never written that the phenotype has stopped changing, only that evolution did not accelerate as AP implied in his earlier comments. As I wrote: mutation rate is constant, but we have population bottlenecks and of course as both you and AP correctly pointed out, the increase in population with the agricultural lifestyle adoption. But I am more in favor of the catastrophic population bottlenecks and selection of branching phenotypes in different refugia, than selection of novel alleles through "civilized lifestyle" (whatever that might be).

    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.
     

    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a). I would favor the Megalithic Culture which might have carried more ancestry from the Doggerland hunter-gatherer populations that would have existed in the natural conditions of the Northern Sea / North Atlantic where a light-colored skin would have probably been most beneficial.

    The authors may have phrased their thesis in my above quote in an awkward manner. They discuss the issue of introgression in depth in Chapter 2. They theorize that modern humans acquired most of the Neanderthal’s beneficial alleles through introgression; not that most beneficial alleles in modern humans are Neanderthal in origin. They say that even a 6% admixture with Neanderthals would’ve been sufficient to spread their beneficial alleles among the modern human populations. Form their book:
     
    Yes their phrasing was a little bit strange. And Sub-Saharan Africans have also experienced introgression form archaic humans distinct from the Neanderthal and the Denisovan. Why would have Eurasian benefitted from their ancestral admixture while Afeicans wouldn't ?

    IMHO all this talk of introgression benefits is highly speculative.


    Alternatively, it would be interesting to publish your refutation somewhere; perhaps Ron Unz can publish it here. Apparently Cochran and Unz had some falling out; so Ron may be willing to post your refutation of Cochran’s thesis on his website: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2020/10/gregory-cochrans-big-grant/
     
    I am not a specialist in the field of evolutionary biology or population genetics. Just a hobbyist, I wouldn't dare publicly disputing the conclusions of the eminent luminaries of these scientific domains. And I also prefer being the anonymous rambling fool that I am.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.

    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a).

    I didn’t get what was being referred to by those writers here, is it the Anglo-Saxon migrations maybe, or were the Saxons and the other Scandinavians who came darker than modern Germanic peoples before medieval times? Recent studies have been showing they arrived in significant numbers and replaced a lot of the population in the South, it tapers off the further North and West you go. It seems more French people came with them than was previously thought.

    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles? I see there have been various ideas over the years.

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Coconuts


    ...they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.
     
    The blue eyes are probably wrong. What Europe experienced in the last 10k years were repeated waves of settlers-invaders from the east and the south. They kept on coming - in general heading north-west along the sea shores, Danube, Elbe, Rhine and other river valleys. They pushed the previous inhabitants into remote regions - Alps, Balkans, Pyrenees - or they exterminated the men. A slight exaggeration, but the genetic evidence shows repeated male replacements. Women adapted to the newcomers and carried on the previous genetics (and often also languages).

    Probably 6-8k years ago around the Baltic Sea mutations appeared to survive better in the gloomy, dark, cold, wet environment: blue-green eyes, pale white skin. The mutations were successful and they spread - better vision at night and in the dark, Vitamin D, etc....it was also helped by the preference of many males for this women type.

    The process has ended and today we are busy dismantling the Euro genetic history - it could be gone in a few generations. That's what happens when a society decides to discard its own sense of the divine. All it does is that they spend a few generations in mindless chaotic hedonism and then get taken over by the others; the 'divinity' is not gone, that part of humanity can't be abolished permanently, it just gets replaced. Now for Floyd or MLK, 'we are all from Africa', or some other Hollywood divine myth.

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles?
     
    They have swarmed the whole of Western Europe and most of Central Europe up towards modern day Eastern Germany / Western Poland. In a matter of a couple of centuries they have replaced most native European males. It was a genocide. Currently, most British males are their descendants.



    What usually isn't mentioned, is that although Bell-Beaker folks are descended from Yamnaya, it was not a westward migration that brought them to Western Europe. They have first appeared on the Iberian peninsula and around the Gibraltar including northern Morocco. The Moroccan Bell-Beaker finds might be somewhat more ancient than the ones found in Extremadura (earliest in Europe).

    Then they migrated and overtook the territory from the ancient European Y haplogroups. This has been especially damaging for the Y haplogroup I2 that was the most important male haplogroup of the Megalithic Culture. The end of the Megalithic Culture in Western Europe is directly linked with the Bell-Beaker onslaught.

    They came to Britain as any other conquerors did after them. They upended the Megalithic Culture there and mostly replaced the native males as they did everywhere else.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows

    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don't have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.
     
    Kostenki K14 man is supposedly close to La Braña man in their genetics, both Y haplogroup C. La Braña carried alleles for blue eyes and dark skin. Early hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia were supposedly also dark skinned, I don't know about their haplogroup though.

    Early European Farmers were basically ancient Anatolian.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7

    Probably looking like Mediterranean people look today, same as the early Bell-Beaker who are basically a Mediterranean population.

    So the question remains, where does the leucoderm phenotype come from ?

    Either Megalithic or Corded Ware is the most plausible answer. I would bet on the Megalithic because genetically speaking the Corded Ware are closer to Yamnaya than to the Megalithic people. Earliest Corded Ware were probably similar to their Yamnaya cousins, but have picked up the leucoderm phenotype when they intermixed with the Y haplogroup I folks, who might have been the surviving population of the Doggerland "Atlantis".

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

  914. @Barbarossa
    @Leaves No Shadow

    I think that I'm fundamentally the same person that I was as a boy, though naturally things become more refined and explicit over time. At least my wife and kids say I still act like a kid. I have to entertain myself somehow.

    I can't really say that I feel as though I can claim much credit one way or another, as I'm just acting according to my inclinations. To be honest, being callous toward animals or people would probably require some active work on my part!

    I do remember one definite point in my life that you may find interesting grist for psycho-analyzing. I was about 6 and was looking out my bedroom window at a tree and being suddenly struck by it's tree nature and considering it in a way didn't take it for granted. I realized in that instant that prior I had taken the world in a reflexive way. I suppose child psychologists have some name for that stage of development, but that is outside my interest. It was a striking moment though which always stuck with me.

    I actually don't discount the idea of a transmigration of souls/ reincarnation. I think it makes a certain amount of sense though I don't attach much import one way or another. I think it's best to assume that God sorts all that out for the best. Though if I've been/ will be around the block more than once it may just mean that I'm a slow learner!

    Replies: @Leaves No Shadow

    At least my wife and kids say I still act like a kid.

    Most people would say that maintaining curiosity and openness is not staying the same, as it leads to personal changes they egotistically consider important, or even threatening.

    However it appears you’re happy to identify with those things as lived rather than conceptualised, rather than the usual egoic concerns.

    To be honest, being callous toward animals or people would probably require some active work on my part!

    People would suffer a lot less if they had the internal openness and curiosity to realise that this point applies to them too.

    I was about 6 and was looking out my bedroom window at a tree and being suddenly struck by it’s tree nature and considering it in a way didn’t take it for granted. I realized in that instant that prior I had taken the world in a reflexive way.

    That’s a transcendental moment. If you ever wonder why others seems so determined to never learn, one way to see it is because they lack the courage for that, or even currently lack that spiritual gift.

    I think it’s best to assume that God sorts all that out for the best.

    Having faith internally, as typified by your internal attitude and ability to have transcendental moments, is usually matched by faith externally. It is the definition of heroic, though explaining why is laborious.

    I wish you the best in your time you mention spending elsewhere. Not that you need my wishes! Some people will find the other side of big unknowns very discombobulating, others will find them so friction free that they’re swiftly blissful. And they and everyone will be fine.

    • Thanks: Barbarossa
  915. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool



    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.
     
    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a).
     
    I didn't get what was being referred to by those writers here, is it the Anglo-Saxon migrations maybe, or were the Saxons and the other Scandinavians who came darker than modern Germanic peoples before medieval times? Recent studies have been showing they arrived in significant numbers and replaced a lot of the population in the South, it tapers off the further North and West you go. It seems more French people came with them than was previously thought.

    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles? I see there have been various ideas over the years.

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Ivashka the fool

    …they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    The blue eyes are probably wrong. What Europe experienced in the last 10k years were repeated waves of settlers-invaders from the east and the south. They kept on coming – in general heading north-west along the sea shores, Danube, Elbe, Rhine and other river valleys. They pushed the previous inhabitants into remote regions – Alps, Balkans, Pyrenees – or they exterminated the men. A slight exaggeration, but the genetic evidence shows repeated male replacements. Women adapted to the newcomers and carried on the previous genetics (and often also languages).

    Probably 6-8k years ago around the Baltic Sea mutations appeared to survive better in the gloomy, dark, cold, wet environment: blue-green eyes, pale white skin. The mutations were successful and they spread – better vision at night and in the dark, Vitamin D, etc….it was also helped by the preference of many males for this women type.

    The process has ended and today we are busy dismantling the Euro genetic history – it could be gone in a few generations. That’s what happens when a society decides to discard its own sense of the divine. All it does is that they spend a few generations in mindless chaotic hedonism and then get taken over by the others; the ‘divinity’ is not gone, that part of humanity can’t be abolished permanently, it just gets replaced. Now for Floyd or MLK, ‘we are all from Africa‘, or some other Hollywood divine myth.

  916. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool



    There is historical evidence to suggest that Britons were darker during the Roman and Medieval period than today.
     
    Both early European Neolithic farmers and the Bell-Beaker folks have been swarthy. Probably looking quite southern Mediterranean, the lighter pigmentation might have been inherited from either the Megalithic Culture (haplogroup I) and or Corded Ware Culture (haplogroup R1a).
     
    I didn't get what was being referred to by those writers here, is it the Anglo-Saxon migrations maybe, or were the Saxons and the other Scandinavians who came darker than modern Germanic peoples before medieval times? Recent studies have been showing they arrived in significant numbers and replaced a lot of the population in the South, it tapers off the further North and West you go. It seems more French people came with them than was previously thought.

    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles? I see there have been various ideas over the years.

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Ivashka the fool

    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles?

    They have swarmed the whole of Western Europe and most of Central Europe up towards modern day Eastern Germany / Western Poland. In a matter of a couple of centuries they have replaced most native European males. It was a genocide. Currently, most British males are their descendants.

    [MORE]

    What usually isn’t mentioned, is that although Bell-Beaker folks are descended from Yamnaya, it was not a westward migration that brought them to Western Europe. They have first appeared on the Iberian peninsula and around the Gibraltar including northern Morocco. The Moroccan Bell-Beaker finds might be somewhat more ancient than the ones found in Extremadura (earliest in Europe).

    Then they migrated and overtook the territory from the ancient European Y haplogroups. This has been especially damaging for the Y haplogroup I2 that was the most important male haplogroup of the Megalithic Culture. The end of the Megalithic Culture in Western Europe is directly linked with the Bell-Beaker onslaught.

    They came to Britain as any other conquerors did after them. They upended the Megalithic Culture there and mostly replaced the native males as they did everywhere else.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows

    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don’t have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.

    Kostenki K14 man is supposedly close to La Braña man in their genetics, both Y haplogroup C. La Braña carried alleles for blue eyes and dark skin. Early hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia were supposedly also dark skinned, I don’t know about their haplogroup though.

    Early European Farmers were basically ancient Anatolian.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7

    Probably looking like Mediterranean people look today, same as the early Bell-Beaker who are basically a Mediterranean population.

    So the question remains, where does the leucoderm phenotype come from ?

    Either Megalithic or Corded Ware is the most plausible answer. I would bet on the Megalithic because genetically speaking the Corded Ware are closer to Yamnaya than to the Megalithic people. Earliest Corded Ware were probably similar to their Yamnaya cousins, but have picked up the leucoderm phenotype when they intermixed with the Y haplogroup I folks, who might have been the surviving population of the Doggerland “Atlantis”.

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Actually it is the Bell-Beaker people who should have come from Atlantis, as their strange pattern of spread - from Atlantic coasts towards heartland of Europe - would be best explained by their coming from some land West of Pillars of Hercules. And Yamnaya people could have come from the Black Sea, like that beast of Apocalypse that emerges from sea. R1b were even ruling Egypt.

    And in that time of primitive technics everyone should consider "plagues" as an alternative explanation to genocide. We already once discussed this problem, so this remark is just for general information.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don’t have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).
     
    Is the Guardian article based on this study? (seems like it might be):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973796/

    I read this a bit ago, it seems to indicate that the beakers were produced by genetically different populations and that the original creators of them were not the R1b1a1b (R-M269) populations that moved into the British Isles. The authors place the origin of this group in Central Europe, rather than in Iberia and have it moving westwards.

    They also state that this population looked more similar to the modern British in skin tone and eye colour, the Guardian article repeats that part.

    Wikipedia has some references to ancestry proportions of R1b1a1b (R-M269) in Europe:

    Distribution of R-M269 in Europe increases in frequency from east to west. It peaks at the national level in Wales at a rate of 92%, at 82% in Ireland, 70% in Scotland, 68% in Spain, 60% in France (76% in Normandy), about 60% in Portugal,[41] 50% in Germany, 50% in the Netherlands, 47% in Italy, 45% in Eastern England, 43% in Denmark and 42% in Iceland. R-M269 reaches levels as high as 95% in parts of Ireland. It has also been found at lower frequencies throughout central Eurasia,[61] but with relatively high frequency among the Bashkirs of the Perm region (84.0%).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  917. @German_reader
    @Beckow


    I can’t imagine it would be limited to central Europe, we would really all be f…ed.
     
    If it comes to the worst, I hope it won't be limited to central Europe. If there's a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn't be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    Replies: @Beckow, @Mr. Hack

    If there’s a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.

    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?…I don’t buy it for one minute. And February 24, 2022 was the last possible date for Russia to react in this hostile manner? And besides, wouldn’t it actually be much easier to destroy Russia and this point instead of the US? I mean if it actually came to something like this (you first brought up the possibility, and I take you to be a serious person).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?
     
    Putin probably did have other options, and if there is a God, I think he will have to answer for all the carnage and suffering caused by his war. I don't think he intended for something like this when he gave the orders for the invasion, but still, of course he and his government bear much of the responsibility.
    But they aren't the only culprits. I'm convinced that this war wouldn't have happened if US (and to a lesser extent EU) policy had been different, if there hadn't been a determined attempt to use Ukraine's internal fractures to box in Russia geopolitically and turn Ukraine into an anti-Russian bulwark. And one can't say that there weren't ample warnings from the Russian side about the possible consequences. It would have been wiser and imo more moral policy to keep Ukraine a neutral state with economic association to both EU and the former Soviet space, maybe work for gradual change and support genuine attempts at reconciliation through a federal model in Ukraine or something of the sort.
    Now Ukraine's getting wrecked, Europe's economy will go to shit and even major European countries like Germany have been shown to be essentially irrelevant pawns. And if we're unlucky, we might all be incinerated. This is an absolutely catastrophic failure of statesmanship, a consequence of insane hubris.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  918. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    The age of classical Empires is gone.

    You don't really need to be a state and even much less so an Empire to access ressources and markets anymore. I think that as our system is slowly but inexorably converted into networks of interest and lobbying groups, so will the whole world become converted into competing transnational networks of TNCs, NGOs, "religious" organizations that act like corporations, sexual minorities that act as political parties, and political movements that act like mafias. Add to this the Technosphere evolving towards an increasing control over the flows of energy, ressources, information and you get the type of society described in cyberpunk novels.

    What would be the best manner to organize humans in such an environment? Depends on what the end goal of the organization is.

    I think that to maximize the survival of the genetic lineages undergoing the population bottleneck in the next several decades, a kind of transnational (pseudo ?) religious and (quasi ?)-tribal financial organization, which would encourage its members to procreate as much as possible, would be optimal.

    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to "online fame", "online wealth", "online sex", drugs and cheap calories would be best.

    The first option would easily coexist with the second, as they will not intersect in real life. The first population would relatively easily replace the second as second would be dysfunctional in real life environment and would not be able to form families and raise children.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to “online fame”, “online wealth”, “online sex”, drugs and cheap calories would be best.

    Could you expand your thoughts here? Who is actually going to make the decision of whether “survival” rather than “enjoyment” is to dominate the political landscape? How is society going to be able to produce the goods and services it needs to survive, if most of its citizens are involved in online sex chat rooms (not very different from all of the internet porno sites that one can already access?). Besides the increase of expensive sports bars that allow the imbibers of all sorts of alcoholic drinks that are consumed in front of 30 foot TV screens dedicated to watching professional sports, we now have sturdy outlets of cannabis bliss that provide all manner of ways to get your favorite (and nowadays much more potent) buzz (smoke, vape, liquid, baked goods) on almost every street corner.


    Government approved soma centers – why work on solving your own problems, when you can just get stoned and have the government take care of you?

  919. @Beckow
    @QCIC


    ...Neocons can easily shake off a total debacle in Ukraine
     
    It wouldn't be easy. The Neocons have three objectives:
    - US global supremacy
    - destroy, diminish and control Russia
    - Izrael and M East

    Everything else interests them only as feeder conflicts for the above: the control of Europe is a lukewarm hands-off goal most of the time, China is not an enemy, they see it as an 'alien' but useful other civilization that can be used - China has allowed itself to be used for the last few decades. Their heart is in defeating Russia and in unquestionable support for Izrael.

    The loss in Ukraine would devastate them. It would be an end of a 50-75 year old dream - it goes back few generations. They will do everything to keep some hope for a restart in the future - we see it in the latest statements by their front-men, often not neo-cons themselves. The new line is: 'Russia can't win across the board, we must keep them from doing another WW2 victory by any means, resist!!!...no matter the cost'...

    They can mitigate the loss by sacrificing huge numbers of Ukie soldiers and by throwing all they have ($, weapons, propaganda...) to the war. This is an obsession and obsessions are a form of siege - one can't escape. They can't shake it off. That's what makes it so interesting. Until maybe it will become too much so...

    Replies: @QCIC

    I don’t see the Ukraine mess as simply a NeoCon obsession based on ideas like “Russia=Bad” and all that. Kolomoisky and his ilk are not NeoCons. I am still waiting for someone at Unz to flesh out the details of the “reclaim the pale of settlement project” which may be an important concept to help understand the ongoing destruction of Ukraine.

    If investigation of the “Reclaimed Pale” angle doesn’t improve our understanding, then I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn’t put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @QCIC


    I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn’t put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.
     
    I think this is way closer to the truth than what most commenters here would ever imagine.
    , @A123
    @QCIC


    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.
     
    I have also suggested that Ukraine is an *intentional* mess.

    While China does benefit in some areas, I suspect that is a side effect rather than the goal. In an immediate sense, the ability to buy hydrocarbons at a significant discount to global market prices is a win. However, long term it is less clear that this can be used to leverage up. The CCP alienating potential trade partners by picking sides could have ugly consequences a decade or more down the line.
    _____

    Christianity is the #1 Target.

    Bringing in vast numbers of MENA origin migrants is the goal. Countries like Italy are slamming the door on crossing the Mediterranean, so a new route was needed to keep the numbers up. The intentional mess is very distracting to Poland, the nation leading the charge for stopping the EU's mass migration madness. It has also politically isolated Hungary.

    PHASE I -- Intentionally sustaining the mess in Ukraine makes keeping out refugees with Ukrainian identity documents untenable for EU members. However, a full 1/3 (or more) are actually MENA origin exploiters on forged papers. The border countries do not have the resources to separate out and reject the fakes. This is further compounded by the fact MENA origin imposters can enter anywhere with forged identity documents. There is no requirement to physically enter from Ukrainian soil.

    PHASE II -- Keeping Ukraine in chaos throws a giant monkey wrench in global food distribution. Grain production in Ukraine is down. Placing it on Black Sea freighters for transit to MENA food importers is difficult to impossible. Intentionally driving energy prices up means fertilizer is more expensive and less available. Therefore, the impact is much wider than only Ukrainian production. Is it not logical to expect the next step will be misrepresented as "hunger migration"?
    ___

    The EU and the European WEF are very negative institutions. That Europe's leaders, especially France and Germany, are leading the charge to break Ukraine should not be a surprise. Intentionally creating a failed state serves EU elite goals.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @Beckow
    @QCIC

    I use the Neo-Cons as a shorthand, I agree there are other groups pushing the war against Russia for their own reasons. But the Neo-Cons are essential because no other group has the influence in Washington, EU, London to push it this far. Kolomoisky and Pale-restoration dreamers, Galicians, Poles, anti-commie leftovers, are more marginal.

    Reclaimed Pale idea exists, but most rational people think it would be a bridge too far: the territory is too large with too many inhabitants, it has a number of other players trying to control it: Kiev-Ukies, Russia, Poland, even Turkey-Tatars...It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement aif Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.

    The globalists don't want to break everything to destroy it: they want to level things, organize them in ways that better suit them, and eliminate the remaining loose ends around the world: Russia is the biggest and most disruptive loose end. But there are others: 'populists' of all kinds like Trump, non-compradorized Third World, and even the parts of their domestic middle class that are not obeying. The war has helped the globalists, as did Covid, but we are in early stages and the risks are too high - people with golden utensils generally stay away from too much risk.


    Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others
     
    In some ways it is, but there will be a winner and winning matters - France was glorious after winning in WW1, they just got too far ahead of themselves and were not strong enough to hold on to the lead. The golden era of the French and British colonial empires was the 20'-30's, winning WW1 was a big part of it.

    In this war Russia has a clear local dominance, to prevent Russia from winning something external would have to be introduced - we are inching towards it but the odds are that when the chips are down the collective West will pull back and not risk everything. But I could be wrong - that's what makes this so entertaining....

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

  920. @Greasy William
    @Beckow


    I have no idea who ‘Strelikov’ is
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin

    If you don’t agree with my view on the numbers, tell me why
     
    Because Strelkov and Rolo (https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/) both think that Ukrainian KIA are in the 30-45k range. One reason I really like Rolo's analysis is, although he himself is a Russian ultra nationalist, because he actually has Ukrainian family members who are currently living in Kiev. Their estimates are consistent with the estimates of Western intelligence services. There are times that I think that Russia will win this war, but I always have felt reasonably confident that Ukrainian losses are in line with the consensus estimates.

    But it can be destroyed, even by missiles. It would take a while, but there is no limit – Ukieland is right on Russia’s border and Russia can produce a lot of missiles.
     
    And this is where we differ. I don't believe that Russian industry can produce missiles in the quantity needed to do greater damage than what Russia is doing already. How many missiles, of all types, would it take to shut down Ukrainian power plants and destroy all Ukrainian arms depots? I would imagine at least 1000 per day over the course of months.


    I do want to say one last thing about manpower shortages: the Nazis were showing many signs of a severe manpower crunch by mid 1942. And yet 2.5 years later, after an additional 3 million plus losses, their armed forces still had a strength of 7.5 million men (less than 2 million below their peak numbers). So I don't take too seriously the idea that either side is in danger of running out of people in the foreseeable future.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Beckow, @QCIC

    Missiles should be used to destroy air defense assets (may require saturation attacks) and high value point targets, with aerial bombing used to attack broad area targets.

    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of ‘ultra-nationalists’ to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @QCIC


    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of ‘ultra-nationalists’ to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.
     
    I think that a scenario where the Russian senators (oligarchs) get fed up with Putler and his stupid war, and perform a Caesarian like exit for demented old Putler, and return to business as usual, is more likely. Next to the plebian families that are now missing their main bread winners due to losses in the war, it's the oligarch class that is losing the most due to this war.

    Replies: @QCIC

  921. @QCIC
    @Greasy William

    Missiles should be used to destroy air defense assets (may require saturation attacks) and high value point targets, with aerial bombing used to attack broad area targets.

    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of 'ultra-nationalists' to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of ‘ultra-nationalists’ to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.

    I think that a scenario where the Russian senators (oligarchs) get fed up with Putler and his stupid war, and perform a Caesarian like exit for demented old Putler, and return to business as usual, is more likely. Next to the plebian families that are now missing their main bread winners due to losses in the war, it’s the oligarch class that is losing the most due to this war.

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Mr. Hack

    My speculation is that Russia is using the war to gradually clean house with her oligarchs and will do the same in Ukraine once the SMO wraps up. There may be some good in this, but such maneuvering is fraught with the peril that a strengthened oligarch emerges on top with fewer competitors.

    A past commenter suggested that Putin is ambivalent about the role Jewish power should play in all of this. The fact that he is philo-semetic may put him in a strange position with respect to the (((oligarchs))) he needs to control to make this SMO work out.

    I view Putin as a "not on my watch" kind of guy and expect he saw the SMO as a last resort. If Russia didn't intervene, he would have been replaced by a leader who would stop the Western dastardly deeds in Ukraine.

  922. Looks like there will be more “unknown” air raids on Iran from new old Benjamin the PM:

    19 February 2023, 7:47 pm
    US Ambassador to Israel Tom Nides says the Iran nuclear deal is currently on ice, as the US will not indirectly negotiate with Iran while it supplies Russia drones for use in the war in Ukraine.

    “The Iranians are providing drones to Russia and those drones are killing innocent Ukrainians. There is no chance today of us going back to the negotiating table,” Nides tells the Conference of Presidents, at the group’s event in Jerusalem.

    “As President [Joe] Biden has said, we will not stand by and watch Iran get a nuclear weapon, number one. Number two, he said, all options are on the table. Number three, Israel can and should do whatever they need to deal with and we’ve got their back,” Nides adds.

    “The threat of a nuclear Iran is not just for Israel, it is for the Middle East and America. We are focused on this,” says the ambassador. “The cooperation between Israel and the US vis-a-vis Iran is lockstep. Every day.”

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-envoy-nides-israel-can-do-whatever-they-need-on-iran-and-weve-got-their-back/

    • Replies: @A123
    @sudden death


    US Ambassador
     
    Since the 2020 coup, one can often ignore anything following that phrase. The diplomatic corps has to regurgitate Not-The-President Biden's nonsensical proclamations. Conflating Iran/Russia/Ukraine into a single ball simply does not work as geopolitical analysis. The ambassador who had to read the broken dialogue without laughing faced a difficult task on that day.

    Looks like there will be more “unknown” air raids on Iran from new old Benjamin the PM:
     
    Sociopath Khamenei is a threat to the entire region and everyone knows it. (1)

    Report: Iranian Drone Attack on Israeli Tanker

     

    The strike came shortly before Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed Iranian involvement in a recent drone attack on an Israeli-owned tanker in the Arabian sea.

    The Israeli TV channel i24news reported Sunday:


    ‘Against the Iranian front, our efforts do not stop for a simple reason because Iran’s acts of aggression do not stop,’ says Netanyahu During the weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, Israel’s

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Iran was responsible for an attack on an oil tanker last week.
     


     
    When will Iran stop provoking its neighbors? Presumably, we will have to wait until Khamenei exits office. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Until then, Israel is simply using common sense & self defense when they terminate Iranian terrorists: (2)

    Report: Israeli Airstrike Hits Iranian Military and Hezbollah Terror Base in Syria

    France24 TV: “Other missiles overnight hit a warehouse used by pro-regime Iranian and Hezbollah fighters near Damascus.”

     

    Amid growing military buildup by Iran’s Islamic Guard (IRGC) and Hezbollah terror militia in neighboring Syria, an Israeli airstrike hit an Iranian-controlled high-security area in the Syrian capital, Damascus.

    On late night Saturday, an Israeli missile hit an area which is known as “home to senior security officials, security branches and intelligence headquarters and Iranian installations,” the British newspaper Guardian confirmed.

    Noting the Iranian connected to the targeted site, Reuters reported that the Israeli airstrike “hit a building in the central Damascus neighbourhood of Kafr Sousa, near a heavily guarded security complex close to Iranian installations.”
     

    Ignore the US Ambassador's misframing, and a different picture appears. Russia is definitely not protecting Khamenei's offensive forces in Syria. An Iran/Russia amalgam does not work.

    There are persistent rumours that Russia is providing intelligence to the IDF. No hard evidence has been released, but it does make sense. Iran's permanent departure is a prerequisite for removing Turkey and the tiny U.S. outpost from Syria.


    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/02/report-israeli-airstrike-hits-iranian-military-and-hezbollah-terror-base-in-syria/

    (2) ibid

    , @German_reader
    @sudden death

    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won't be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination. The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn't left the agreement, if the Europeans hadn't shown themselves to be craven cowards and mere puppets, if the sanctions had been at least partially lifted? Absolute fuckup. Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).

    Replies: @A123, @sudden death

  923. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles?
     
    They have swarmed the whole of Western Europe and most of Central Europe up towards modern day Eastern Germany / Western Poland. In a matter of a couple of centuries they have replaced most native European males. It was a genocide. Currently, most British males are their descendants.



    What usually isn't mentioned, is that although Bell-Beaker folks are descended from Yamnaya, it was not a westward migration that brought them to Western Europe. They have first appeared on the Iberian peninsula and around the Gibraltar including northern Morocco. The Moroccan Bell-Beaker finds might be somewhat more ancient than the ones found in Extremadura (earliest in Europe).

    Then they migrated and overtook the territory from the ancient European Y haplogroups. This has been especially damaging for the Y haplogroup I2 that was the most important male haplogroup of the Megalithic Culture. The end of the Megalithic Culture in Western Europe is directly linked with the Bell-Beaker onslaught.

    They came to Britain as any other conquerors did after them. They upended the Megalithic Culture there and mostly replaced the native males as they did everywhere else.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows

    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don't have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.
     
    Kostenki K14 man is supposedly close to La Braña man in their genetics, both Y haplogroup C. La Braña carried alleles for blue eyes and dark skin. Early hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia were supposedly also dark skinned, I don't know about their haplogroup though.

    Early European Farmers were basically ancient Anatolian.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7

    Probably looking like Mediterranean people look today, same as the early Bell-Beaker who are basically a Mediterranean population.

    So the question remains, where does the leucoderm phenotype come from ?

    Either Megalithic or Corded Ware is the most plausible answer. I would bet on the Megalithic because genetically speaking the Corded Ware are closer to Yamnaya than to the Megalithic people. Earliest Corded Ware were probably similar to their Yamnaya cousins, but have picked up the leucoderm phenotype when they intermixed with the Y haplogroup I folks, who might have been the surviving population of the Doggerland "Atlantis".

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    Actually it is the Bell-Beaker people who should have come from Atlantis, as their strange pattern of spread – from Atlantic coasts towards heartland of Europe – would be best explained by their coming from some land West of Pillars of Hercules. And Yamnaya people could have come from the Black Sea, like that beast of Apocalypse that emerges from sea. R1b were even ruling Egypt.

    And in that time of primitive technics everyone should consider “plagues” as an alternative explanation to genocide. We already once discussed this problem, so this remark is just for general information.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/scientists-reconstruct-face-of-handsome-ramses-ii-possible-pharaoh-of-exodus/

    The Pharaoh, 45 years old, looks like a younger King Charles III.

    https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2022/12/Screen-Shot-2022-12-24-at-20.17.29-e1671906100298.jpg

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    http://riadzany.blogspot.com/2010/05/beaker-culture-find-in-morocco.html?m=1

    http://www.ijias.issr-journals.org/abstract.php?article=IJIAS-14-220-14

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330729106_Turek_J_2012_Origin_of_the_Bell_Beaker_phenomenon_-_the_Moroccan_connection_In_Harry_Fokkens_-_Franco_Nicolis_Bell_beakers_in_Transition_Sidestone_Press_Leiden_pp_155-167_ISBN_9789088900846

    Of course, the modern day descendants of the Bell Beaker people are not exactly in a rush to claim their Maghrebi ancestry.

    Interestingly enough, Megalithic Culture had also an offshoot in northern Morocco.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/175169711X13046099195951

    While it has also been very much flourishing in Spain after having originated in modern day France, in Bretagne and its on its Northern Sea facade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/18/megalithic-complex-standing-stones-discovered-spain

    https://bigthink.com/the-past/megaliths-brittany/



    7000 years bp is more or less when the Doggerland has definitely came under water. Migration of seafaring hunter gatherers from there to northwest Europe makes sense. I am pretty confident that if divers started seriously looking for early archaic Megalithic Culture structures under the Northern Sea, they would probably find some.

    And of course the Megalithic Culture was incredibly sophisticated in the British Isles.

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/514/

    So basically the Bell-Beaker folks replaced mostly the Megalithic Culture folks in all of Western Europe. Interestingly, Y haplogroup I2 people have been identified among those who were probably slaves or servants to the warriors killed at the Tollense River. Basically the descendants of the Megalithic Culture folks became the Helotes to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite.

    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy before heading eastwards and genociding all the male lineages they encountered until push came to shove when they met the Corded Ware Culture folks at the Tollense River battle.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-25975-9

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  924. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    I don't see the Ukraine mess as simply a NeoCon obsession based on ideas like "Russia=Bad" and all that. Kolomoisky and his ilk are not NeoCons. I am still waiting for someone at Unz to flesh out the details of the "reclaim the pale of settlement project" which may be an important concept to help understand the ongoing destruction of Ukraine.

    If investigation of the "Reclaimed Pale" angle doesn't improve our understanding, then I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn't put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @Beckow

    I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn’t put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    I think this is way closer to the truth than what most commenters here would ever imagine.

  925. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Actually it is the Bell-Beaker people who should have come from Atlantis, as their strange pattern of spread - from Atlantic coasts towards heartland of Europe - would be best explained by their coming from some land West of Pillars of Hercules. And Yamnaya people could have come from the Black Sea, like that beast of Apocalypse that emerges from sea. R1b were even ruling Egypt.

    And in that time of primitive technics everyone should consider "plagues" as an alternative explanation to genocide. We already once discussed this problem, so this remark is just for general information.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

  926. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.
     
    Well, I was writing about metrics to measure systems' level of complexity. What you wrote about is quite interesting, but in terms of units of information needed to describe each part and parcel of the system, a mature ecosystem beats down anything we could possibly achieve as urban landscape. It is also more optimal from thermodynamics pov and it is obviously environment-friendly. It is also self-perpetuating as long as the environmental conditions don't change too drastically. Nothing we could possibly build compares to that.

    http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Complexity#:~:text=from%20random%20systems.-,Complexity%20as%20Structure%20and%20Information,or%20interactions%20within%20a%20system.

    http://www.ciesin.org/docs/002-109/002-109.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7517404/

    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity.
     

    https://www.britannica.com/science/complexity-scientific-theory/Predictability

    Any complex system is less predictable. And any mature ecosystem is way much complex, integrated and organized that anything we can build today. This is entirely reasonable because life has been optimizing the flows of energy and information for a billion years on this planet alone, and possibly elsewhere if we believe in Panspermia (entirely believable from the astrobiology pov).

    I get now why you believe human civilization has created more complexity. It is simply because just as you are a classical conservative in your political and social opinions, you are also a classical humanist when it comes to looking at human interaction with their environment.

    I respect that, but from the point of view of systems theory, biology, thermodynamics, information
    science, humans are not the be all end all pinnacles of Creation. When objectively measured the efficiency of the biological cell's thermodynamics is orders of magnitude above anything we could build in chemical engineering. Same if we measure its information content. Same if we look at the total complexity of a mature ecosystem (myriads of cells working together) vs the most sophisticated urban landscape humans could possibly bulldoze it into.

    Life is optimal compared to technology.

    Technologism is Demiurge's thinking.

    Антихристово добро (которое до добра не доведёт).

    Природа - божий свет и божий мир.

    Мир in Russian is from the same root as Mehr in Iranian - Mithras in Greek. The divine concord and agreement - interbeing.

    But that's another matter altogether.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

    Life is optimal compared to technology.
    Technologism is Demiurge’s thinking.

    They are not concerned with optimization or complexity.

    What they want is power and control.

    Did you know Rudolf Steiner had Red pill Blue pill (sort of)?

    His parallel construction was reddest blood vessels with plenty of oxygen versus bluest blood vessels with plenty of carbon dioxide. On the other hand calling it the Demiurge might not be the greatest tactic. Yes the blue pilled are in the Devil’s army but mostly they don’t know it and they are likely to find it a little rude if we point it out to them. : )

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Yes the blue pilled are in the Devil’s army but mostly they don’t know it and they are likely to find it a little rude if we point it out to them. : )
     
    Sure, thousands of years of brainwashing create strong thought-patterns. Breaking through them is often painful. Been there, done that, know the feeling. Probably will cost me a couple decades of life expectancy. Not that I care anymore, there are more important things than mere survival. And even more important than power (chuckle) and control (another chuckle).

    🙂
  927. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    I don't see the Ukraine mess as simply a NeoCon obsession based on ideas like "Russia=Bad" and all that. Kolomoisky and his ilk are not NeoCons. I am still waiting for someone at Unz to flesh out the details of the "reclaim the pale of settlement project" which may be an important concept to help understand the ongoing destruction of Ukraine.

    If investigation of the "Reclaimed Pale" angle doesn't improve our understanding, then I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn't put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @Beckow

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    I have also suggested that Ukraine is an *intentional* mess.

    While China does benefit in some areas, I suspect that is a side effect rather than the goal. In an immediate sense, the ability to buy hydrocarbons at a significant discount to global market prices is a win. However, long term it is less clear that this can be used to leverage up. The CCP alienating potential trade partners by picking sides could have ugly consequences a decade or more down the line.
    _____

    Christianity is the #1 Target.

    Bringing in vast numbers of MENA origin migrants is the goal. Countries like Italy are slamming the door on crossing the Mediterranean, so a new route was needed to keep the numbers up. The intentional mess is very distracting to Poland, the nation leading the charge for stopping the EU’s mass migration madness. It has also politically isolated Hungary.

    PHASE I — Intentionally sustaining the mess in Ukraine makes keeping out refugees with Ukrainian identity documents untenable for EU members. However, a full 1/3 (or more) are actually MENA origin exploiters on forged papers. The border countries do not have the resources to separate out and reject the fakes. This is further compounded by the fact MENA origin imposters can enter anywhere with forged identity documents. There is no requirement to physically enter from Ukrainian soil.

    PHASE II — Keeping Ukraine in chaos throws a giant monkey wrench in global food distribution. Grain production in Ukraine is down. Placing it on Black Sea freighters for transit to MENA food importers is difficult to impossible. Intentionally driving energy prices up means fertilizer is more expensive and less available. Therefore, the impact is much wider than only Ukrainian production. Is it not logical to expect the next step will be misrepresented as “hunger migration”?
    ___

    The EU and the European WEF are very negative institutions. That Europe’s leaders, especially France and Germany, are leading the charge to break Ukraine should not be a surprise. Intentionally creating a failed state serves EU elite goals.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    Good points. I wonder if the Italians are now pushing back since the damage is done and the project is complete? In other words it is already too late once the fertility patterns play out. I think the Southwest USA is in a similar situation and society there will be really different in 50 years.

    In the view I mentioned, China is simply a tool of "elites" above her and will be handed the global reins from the USA. Breaking the system and allowing China to ascend would be a means of consolidating the power of global elites. China is a tool in this process, just like Ukraine in the anti-Russia project.

    I think China and Russia are natural potential adversaries since China may eventually want what Russia has. Hopefully they can keep things ciivil.

  928. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Actually it is the Bell-Beaker people who should have come from Atlantis, as their strange pattern of spread - from Atlantic coasts towards heartland of Europe - would be best explained by their coming from some land West of Pillars of Hercules. And Yamnaya people could have come from the Black Sea, like that beast of Apocalypse that emerges from sea. R1b were even ruling Egypt.

    And in that time of primitive technics everyone should consider "plagues" as an alternative explanation to genocide. We already once discussed this problem, so this remark is just for general information.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    http://riadzany.blogspot.com/2010/05/beaker-culture-find-in-morocco.html?m=1

    http://www.ijias.issr-journals.org/abstract.php?article=IJIAS-14-220-14

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330729106_Turek_J_2012_Origin_of_the_Bell_Beaker_phenomenon_-_the_Moroccan_connection_In_Harry_Fokkens_-_Franco_Nicolis_Bell_beakers_in_Transition_Sidestone_Press_Leiden_pp_155-167_ISBN_9789088900846

    Of course, the modern day descendants of the Bell Beaker people are not exactly in a rush to claim their Maghrebi ancestry.

    Interestingly enough, Megalithic Culture had also an offshoot in northern Morocco.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/175169711X13046099195951

    While it has also been very much flourishing in Spain after having originated in modern day France, in Bretagne and its on its Northern Sea facade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/18/megalithic-complex-standing-stones-discovered-spain

    https://bigthink.com/the-past/megaliths-brittany/

    [MORE]

    7000 years bp is more or less when the Doggerland has definitely came under water. Migration of seafaring hunter gatherers from there to northwest Europe makes sense. I am pretty confident that if divers started seriously looking for early archaic Megalithic Culture structures under the Northern Sea, they would probably find some.

    And of course the Megalithic Culture was incredibly sophisticated in the British Isles.

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/514/

    So basically the Bell-Beaker folks replaced mostly the Megalithic Culture folks in all of Western Europe. Interestingly, Y haplogroup I2 people have been identified among those who were probably slaves or servants to the warriors killed at the Tollense River. Basically the descendants of the Megalithic Culture folks became the Helotes to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite.

    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy before heading eastwards and genociding all the male lineages they encountered until push came to shove when they met the Corded Ware Culture folks at the Tollense River battle.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-25975-9

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy
     
    So you are suggesting they were like our elites...?

    Anyway, Megalithic Culture did not have many natural enemies, except, maybe Bell Beakers folks.
    I do not see reason why import them then.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.
     
    Megalitic societies were matrilineal too, so this feature was apparently preserved which suggests Megalithic people retained some power. But El Argar was almost like early slave society, with lower caste people victims of malnutrition etc.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  929. @Mr. Hack
    @QCIC


    I still think Russia is dragging this out intentionally to maximize the deaths of ‘ultra-nationalists’ to make sure the country is manageable once the Ukrainian leadership surrenders.
     
    I think that a scenario where the Russian senators (oligarchs) get fed up with Putler and his stupid war, and perform a Caesarian like exit for demented old Putler, and return to business as usual, is more likely. Next to the plebian families that are now missing their main bread winners due to losses in the war, it's the oligarch class that is losing the most due to this war.

    Replies: @QCIC

    My speculation is that Russia is using the war to gradually clean house with her oligarchs and will do the same in Ukraine once the SMO wraps up. There may be some good in this, but such maneuvering is fraught with the peril that a strengthened oligarch emerges on top with fewer competitors.

    A past commenter suggested that Putin is ambivalent about the role Jewish power should play in all of this. The fact that he is philo-semetic may put him in a strange position with respect to the (((oligarchs))) he needs to control to make this SMO work out.

    I view Putin as a “not on my watch” kind of guy and expect he saw the SMO as a last resort. If Russia didn’t intervene, he would have been replaced by a leader who would stop the Western dastardly deeds in Ukraine.

  930. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Ivashka the fool


    Life is optimal compared to technology.
    Technologism is Demiurge’s thinking.
     
    They are not concerned with optimization or complexity.

    What they want is power and control.

    Did you know Rudolf Steiner had Red pill Blue pill (sort of)?

    His parallel construction was reddest blood vessels with plenty of oxygen versus bluest blood vessels with plenty of carbon dioxide. On the other hand calling it the Demiurge might not be the greatest tactic. Yes the blue pilled are in the Devil's army but mostly they don't know it and they are likely to find it a little rude if we point it out to them. : )

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yes the blue pilled are in the Devil’s army but mostly they don’t know it and they are likely to find it a little rude if we point it out to them. : )

    Sure, thousands of years of brainwashing create strong thought-patterns. Breaking through them is often painful. Been there, done that, know the feeling. Probably will cost me a couple decades of life expectancy. Not that I care anymore, there are more important things than mere survival. And even more important than power (chuckle) and control (another chuckle).

    🙂

  931. @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Is nobody concerned with optics? Or is this just working itself towards a peak and then a serious backlash?
     
    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.

    A lot of young people seem to look to socialism to solve every problem and if a Labour government is elected as predicted, whatever it can achieve I doubt it will meet these expectations. Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the 'low information' voter part of the population by then as well.

    I was going to post a link to Douglas Murray's article in the Spectator about the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo's 'Great Railway Journeys' series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation, but Sailer had beaten me to it.

    Replies: @songbird

    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.

    A while back, I listened to an old tape of Rod Serling talking to college kids in the ’60s, and he kept talking about a ‘white lash.’ (he seemed a real unpleasant character, politically speaking). But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.

    Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the ‘low information’ voter part of the population by then as well.

    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.

    [MORE]

    the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo’s ‘Great Railway Journeys’ series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation

    I find it really bizarre that they put The Great Escape on the list, since it shows the Gestapo machine-gunning British POWs. I wonder if it is because Steve McQueen, who had Scot ancestry, was very Nordic-looking, and blond heroes are kind of semi-verboten, especially very daring ones, that in some way personified some masculine ideal.

    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare – for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.

    I also wonder if it was an Indian who found Four Feathers offensive. Did not think the book was widely read today, and the most recent movie seemed fairly woke, IIRC, with its promotion of a black African. Maybe, they googled “novels of the empire period”, or something.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @songbird

    Also interesting to see Tinker, Tailor on the Prevent program list as it has a major gay character in it, depicted somewhat sympathetically.

    Not to mention, that Le Carre is woke as frack. I still laugh at his description of a DRC-mulatto, as a "sun-tanned Irishman" (or something highly similar.)

    If there is one thing I would say about the list, it is that I believe it demonstrates how Euros with traditional values and a sense of identity are really lacking an assertive, modern, productional sphere of any influence.

    , @Coconuts
    @songbird


    But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.
     
    I do doubt that it will put emphasis on the racial aspect, those political scientists don't mention it specifically as far as I can remember and some of the politicians who might be positioning themselves to be involved in it aren't white (Badenoch, Braverman). I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.


    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.
     
    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster. And no imperial past.

    Keith Woods just put out a strong YouTube video with arguments against immigration, I feel like he is pointing the way forward with some of them. If any of them get picked up more widely it will be interesting.


    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare – for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.
     
    I was discussing this with a relative, I thought they would be people from the far-left, not sure about ethnicity but likely a mixture? I doubt they have children, if they are older rather than young activists I wouldn't be surprised if they are LGBTQ.

    I suspect it may have been influenced by some of these groups like Hope not Hate who monitor nationalist and D/R forums and social media. I can't imagine a book like the Four Feathers has many readers nowadays, there were memes based on the film going around a few years ago though. Other choices, like the Great Escape, Railway Journeys or Tinker, Tailor... seem bizarre or paranoid, like targeting things that middle-aged mildly Conservative people might like.

    Tinker, Tailor... is obviously critical of the British establishment. Thomas Carlyle is the only writer there who seems close to being far-right and apart from Academic Agent and people he has influenced I don't know how widely read he is now either.

    Replies: @songbird

  932. If Russia didn’t intervene, he would have been replaced by a leader who would stop the Western dastardly deeds in Ukraine.

    I disagree. The Russian oligarchs have always been happiest when left to their own devices, and have been able to do business wherever in the world is most profitable (including the West). It’s never been the West that’s been their biggest nemesis, but Putler himself who has continued a relentless campaign against their autonomous powers since when he first came to power. At present, I don’t think that he’s in the best position to continue this campaign against the oligarchs, as he’s also managed to disaffect a huge portion of his intelligence forces, and therefore is very vulnerable at this particular time. If I can figure this out, I’m certain that the oligarch class is even more aware of these potential openings to reassert themselves within the Russian power vertical. Looking back one year now, I think that things were pretty good before Putler’s dreams of Empire took root. Any future leaders of Russia will be in no position to continue this pricey war with in Ukraine.

  933. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP


    The Banderist myth ignores the OUN’s role in the Holocaust and claims that the OUN saved Jews (they did – but the myth leaves out that it was rare and for very practical reasons).
     
    In Polin Museum of Polish Jews in Warsaw there is a separate room devoted to the terror Jews had to suffer during Chmielnicki uprising, sometimes running away as far as Constantinople (Ottoman border was sometimes closer than proper Poland). I must say I was unaware how large the numbers of both the killed and refugees were... like tens of thousands (at least according to Polin).

    I see this as a both significant and repeating problem, a problem of continuity from Chmielnicki to Bandera that Ukrainian revolutionary movements weren't just armed fight for independence like Polish November or January Uprising, but also pretty unhinged terror actions against civilian populations they didn't like (but which could be resettled in case of Ukrainian victory on the battlefield).

    Replies: @AP

    In Polin Museum of Polish Jews in Warsaw there is a separate room devoted to the terror Jews had to suffer during Chmielnicki uprising, sometimes running away as far as Constantinople (Ottoman border was sometimes closer than proper Poland). I must say I was unaware how large the numbers of both the killed and refugees were… like tens of thousands (at least according to Polin).

    These figures have kept getting revised downward. The most recent (2003) non-Ukrainian source I’ve seen estimated 18,000-20,000 Jews killed out of a total population in the affected area of 40,000.

    I see this as a both significant and repeating problem, a problem of continuity from Chmielnicki to Bandera that Ukrainian revolutionary movements weren’t just armed fight for independence like Polish November or January Uprising, but also pretty unhinged terror actions against civilian populations they didn’t like

    Poland’s historical record has been remarkably humane, but it’s wrong to single out Ukrainians from this perspective. Americans and Brits incinerated 100,000s of German and Japanese civilians for reasons far more dubious than the OUN’s massacres, and engaged in various other atrocities. I once spoke to a US veteran from the “Butcher’s brigade” who told me about making necklaces from the teeth of Japanese they had butchered, throwing young Japanese prisoners out of airplanes for fun, etc. Nobody is calling for the cancellation of the America’s “greatest generation” who fought that war.

    Around the time of Khmelytsky’s uprising, German and Swedish forces were massacring far more civilians during their religious wars. There was nothing particularly bloody about his treasonous rebellion. The French still use the national anthem of the bloody Revolutionaries who massacred 100,000+ civilians in the Vendee and guillotined 10,000s more.

    It should be noted that in such a situation a better choice for Ukraine would be perhaps no national heroes at all at the moment (new ones could be shaped on battlefields), well, at least no national heroes at arms.

    Sure, after almost everyone else throws away the fighters of World War II (the Brits are already starting to cancel Churchill who wanted to gas natives somewhere) and most of the others, too, for being “problematic.” Don’t single out Ukrainians.

  934. @sudden death
    Looks like there will be more "unknown" air raids on Iran from new old Benjamin the PM:

    19 February 2023, 7:47 pm
    US Ambassador to Israel Tom Nides says the Iran nuclear deal is currently on ice, as the US will not indirectly negotiate with Iran while it supplies Russia drones for use in the war in Ukraine.

    “The Iranians are providing drones to Russia and those drones are killing innocent Ukrainians. There is no chance today of us going back to the negotiating table,” Nides tells the Conference of Presidents, at the group’s event in Jerusalem.

    “As President [Joe] Biden has said, we will not stand by and watch Iran get a nuclear weapon, number one. Number two, he said, all options are on the table. Number three, Israel can and should do whatever they need to deal with and we’ve got their back,” Nides adds.

    “The threat of a nuclear Iran is not just for Israel, it is for the Middle East and America. We are focused on this,” says the ambassador. “The cooperation between Israel and the US vis-a-vis Iran is lockstep. Every day.”
     
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-envoy-nides-israel-can-do-whatever-they-need-on-iran-and-weve-got-their-back/

    Replies: @A123, @German_reader

    US Ambassador

    Since the 2020 coup, one can often ignore anything following that phrase. The diplomatic corps has to regurgitate Not-The-President Biden’s nonsensical proclamations. Conflating Iran/Russia/Ukraine into a single ball simply does not work as geopolitical analysis. The ambassador who had to read the broken dialogue without laughing faced a difficult task on that day.

    Looks like there will be more “unknown” air raids on Iran from new old Benjamin the PM:

    Sociopath Khamenei is a threat to the entire region and everyone knows it. (1)

    Report: Iranian Drone Attack on Israeli Tanker

    The strike came shortly before Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed Iranian involvement in a recent drone attack on an Israeli-owned tanker in the Arabian sea.

    The Israeli TV channel i24news reported Sunday:

    ‘Against the Iranian front, our efforts do not stop for a simple reason because Iran’s acts of aggression do not stop,’ says Netanyahu During the weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, Israel’s

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Iran was responsible for an attack on an oil tanker last week.

    When will Iran stop provoking its neighbors? Presumably, we will have to wait until Khamenei exits office. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Until then, Israel is simply using common sense & self defense when they terminate Iranian terrorists: (2)

    Report: Israeli Airstrike Hits Iranian Military and Hezbollah Terror Base in Syria

    France24 TV: “Other missiles overnight hit a warehouse used by pro-regime Iranian and Hezbollah fighters near Damascus.”

    Amid growing military buildup by Iran’s Islamic Guard (IRGC) and Hezbollah terror militia in neighboring Syria, an Israeli airstrike hit an Iranian-controlled high-security area in the Syrian capital, Damascus.

    On late night Saturday, an Israeli missile hit an area which is known as “home to senior security officials, security branches and intelligence headquarters and Iranian installations,” the British newspaper Guardian confirmed.

    Noting the Iranian connected to the targeted site, Reuters reported that the Israeli airstrike “hit a building in the central Damascus neighbourhood of Kafr Sousa, near a heavily guarded security complex close to Iranian installations.”

    Ignore the US Ambassador’s misframing, and a different picture appears. Russia is definitely not protecting Khamenei’s offensive forces in Syria. An Iran/Russia amalgam does not work.

    There are persistent rumours that Russia is providing intelligence to the IDF. No hard evidence has been released, but it does make sense. Iran’s permanent departure is a prerequisite for removing Turkey and the tiny U.S. outpost from Syria.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/02/report-israeli-airstrike-hits-iranian-military-and-hezbollah-terror-base-in-syria/

    (2) ibid

  935. Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren’t saying.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren’t saying.
     
    Could be wrong, but if UK is negative (is it really?), hard to imagine those being positive. Especially France, which I believe has onerous taxes.

    Seems to be a big imbalance in the estimates. (Only +1500 to the US and +1000 in Canada - doesn't make any sense, IMO) Where could they be going? To some O'Neill Cylinder in orbit, to escape the chaos of the coming decline?

    I'd speculate that with the Saudis, a lot of it is explained by the men marrying foreign (primarily Arab-speaking) women, and moving to the countries, where they live, to better leverage the value of their wealth, based on PPP.

    A pity that Goa didn't become independent. I doubt that massive inflows of Indian money into the West are at all positive. Probably does really bad things to real estate prices, in some places, not considering other things.

    It is interesting to see all the Chinese movie stars getting Singaporean citizenship. Perhaps, they were vindicated by the covid lockdowns? I wonder if the solution to a lot of the problems of globalism might be to create more Singapores, where global elites could feel they could flee and live a cosmopolitan lifestyle without destroying whole countries in the process. Or, perhaps, it would be a net negative?

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Emil Nikola Richard

  936. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    http://riadzany.blogspot.com/2010/05/beaker-culture-find-in-morocco.html?m=1

    http://www.ijias.issr-journals.org/abstract.php?article=IJIAS-14-220-14

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330729106_Turek_J_2012_Origin_of_the_Bell_Beaker_phenomenon_-_the_Moroccan_connection_In_Harry_Fokkens_-_Franco_Nicolis_Bell_beakers_in_Transition_Sidestone_Press_Leiden_pp_155-167_ISBN_9789088900846

    Of course, the modern day descendants of the Bell Beaker people are not exactly in a rush to claim their Maghrebi ancestry.

    Interestingly enough, Megalithic Culture had also an offshoot in northern Morocco.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.2752/175169711X13046099195951

    While it has also been very much flourishing in Spain after having originated in modern day France, in Bretagne and its on its Northern Sea facade.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/aug/18/megalithic-complex-standing-stones-discovered-spain

    https://bigthink.com/the-past/megaliths-brittany/



    7000 years bp is more or less when the Doggerland has definitely came under water. Migration of seafaring hunter gatherers from there to northwest Europe makes sense. I am pretty confident that if divers started seriously looking for early archaic Megalithic Culture structures under the Northern Sea, they would probably find some.

    And of course the Megalithic Culture was incredibly sophisticated in the British Isles.

    https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/514/

    So basically the Bell-Beaker folks replaced mostly the Megalithic Culture folks in all of Western Europe. Interestingly, Y haplogroup I2 people have been identified among those who were probably slaves or servants to the warriors killed at the Tollense River. Basically the descendants of the Megalithic Culture folks became the Helotes to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite.

    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy before heading eastwards and genociding all the male lineages they encountered until push came to shove when they met the Corded Ware Culture folks at the Tollense River battle.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-25975-9

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy

    So you are suggesting they were like our elites…?

    Anyway, Megalithic Culture did not have many natural enemies, except, maybe Bell Beakers folks.
    I do not see reason why import them then.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.

    Megalitic societies were matrilineal too, so this feature was apparently preserved which suggests Megalithic people retained some power. But El Argar was almost like early slave society, with lower caste people victims of malnutrition etc.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Yes they were exactly like our elites. That is why trusting our elites is foolish.

    Aristocratic Megalithic Culture women retained some (most ?) power, but Megalithic Culture men got flushed from the gene-pool. El Argar is one of the earliest instances of Bell-Beaker admixing with and colonizing native ancient Western Europeans, and yes it looked exactly like an early slave society with a strong social stratification, exactly what I wrote in my comment above - the natives became the "Helotes" to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite "Spartan" overlords.

    Similar situation has been documented elsewhere, in Central Europe, where Bell-Beakers colonized the lands of the Corded Ware Culture folks and drove them fleeing to the East. Tombs have been found with typically Corded Ware Culture burial posture but devoid of grave goods, applied to emaciated Corded Ware men buried holding malnourished children in their arms. Tombs have been found with Corded Ware men, women and children slaughtered. While around the same period and close by, the Bell-Beaker tombs present well fed and strong warriors buried with their grave goods.

    Again, nothing special, we've seen it happening as recently as 1930-ies - 1940-ies. Some things don't really change. A genocide is a genocide. This is what ends up happening when a society is overcome by a predatory elite, whether foreign or local, or produced through admixture of both local and foreign elements.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  937. @A123
    @QCIC


    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.
     
    I have also suggested that Ukraine is an *intentional* mess.

    While China does benefit in some areas, I suspect that is a side effect rather than the goal. In an immediate sense, the ability to buy hydrocarbons at a significant discount to global market prices is a win. However, long term it is less clear that this can be used to leverage up. The CCP alienating potential trade partners by picking sides could have ugly consequences a decade or more down the line.
    _____

    Christianity is the #1 Target.

    Bringing in vast numbers of MENA origin migrants is the goal. Countries like Italy are slamming the door on crossing the Mediterranean, so a new route was needed to keep the numbers up. The intentional mess is very distracting to Poland, the nation leading the charge for stopping the EU's mass migration madness. It has also politically isolated Hungary.

    PHASE I -- Intentionally sustaining the mess in Ukraine makes keeping out refugees with Ukrainian identity documents untenable for EU members. However, a full 1/3 (or more) are actually MENA origin exploiters on forged papers. The border countries do not have the resources to separate out and reject the fakes. This is further compounded by the fact MENA origin imposters can enter anywhere with forged identity documents. There is no requirement to physically enter from Ukrainian soil.

    PHASE II -- Keeping Ukraine in chaos throws a giant monkey wrench in global food distribution. Grain production in Ukraine is down. Placing it on Black Sea freighters for transit to MENA food importers is difficult to impossible. Intentionally driving energy prices up means fertilizer is more expensive and less available. Therefore, the impact is much wider than only Ukrainian production. Is it not logical to expect the next step will be misrepresented as "hunger migration"?
    ___

    The EU and the European WEF are very negative institutions. That Europe's leaders, especially France and Germany, are leading the charge to break Ukraine should not be a surprise. Intentionally creating a failed state serves EU elite goals.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @QCIC

    Good points. I wonder if the Italians are now pushing back since the damage is done and the project is complete? In other words it is already too late once the fertility patterns play out. I think the Southwest USA is in a similar situation and society there will be really different in 50 years.

    In the view I mentioned, China is simply a tool of “elites” above her and will be handed the global reins from the USA. Breaking the system and allowing China to ascend would be a means of consolidating the power of global elites. China is a tool in this process, just like Ukraine in the anti-Russia project.

    I think China and Russia are natural potential adversaries since China may eventually want what Russia has. Hopefully they can keep things ciivil.

  938. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    I don't see the Ukraine mess as simply a NeoCon obsession based on ideas like "Russia=Bad" and all that. Kolomoisky and his ilk are not NeoCons. I am still waiting for someone at Unz to flesh out the details of the "reclaim the pale of settlement project" which may be an important concept to help understand the ongoing destruction of Ukraine.

    If investigation of the "Reclaimed Pale" angle doesn't improve our understanding, then I have to view the Ukraine trouble as a globalist enterprise designed to break everything: Russia, NATO, USA, etc. and pave the way for a new order of some sort. I wouldn't put much confidence in this sort of thing except for the ongoing worldwide COVID project which seems to be in the same vein.

    Overall the Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others. If I let my speculation run wild, I would guess this round is designed to make China ascendent, much in the way WW1 put the USA on the way to ascendency.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @A123, @Beckow

    I use the Neo-Cons as a shorthand, I agree there are other groups pushing the war against Russia for their own reasons. But the Neo-Cons are essential because no other group has the influence in Washington, EU, London to push it this far. Kolomoisky and Pale-restoration dreamers, Galicians, Poles, anti-commie leftovers, are more marginal.

    Reclaimed Pale idea exists, but most rational people think it would be a bridge too far: the territory is too large with too many inhabitants, it has a number of other players trying to control it: Kiev-Ukies, Russia, Poland, even Turkey-Tatars…It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement aif Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.

    The globalists don’t want to break everything to destroy it: they want to level things, organize them in ways that better suit them, and eliminate the remaining loose ends around the world: Russia is the biggest and most disruptive loose end. But there are others: ‘populists’ of all kinds like Trump, non-compradorized Third World, and even the parts of their domestic middle class that are not obeying. The war has helped the globalists, as did Covid, but we are in early stages and the risks are too high – people with golden utensils generally stay away from too much risk.

    Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others

    In some ways it is, but there will be a winner and winning matters – France was glorious after winning in WW1, they just got too far ahead of themselves and were not strong enough to hold on to the lead. The golden era of the French and British colonial empires was the 20′-30’s, winning WW1 was a big part of it.

    In this war Russia has a clear local dominance, to prevent Russia from winning something external would have to be introduced – we are inching towards it but the odds are that when the chips are down the collective West will pull back and not risk everything. But I could be wrong – that’s what makes this so entertaining….

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Well, I like your guarded optimism.

    If the "New Pale" concept is actually real it would be a long-term plan, much like Israel. I admit it seems like a very slim and maybe wacky prospect, but some of these people take their myths very seriously and literally. The namesake of Chabad is only a couple of hundred miles from the Ukrainian border. Hopefully this is just a random factoid, as opposed to a pointer that the war is actually being fought over hallowed ground which must eventually be claimed at any cost.

    Replies: @Beckow

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement if Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.
     
    Isreal is already both vulnerable and small. Moreover, with each passing generation, Isreal is becoming more of a Sephardim, Mizrahim society swamped by the Haredim. A normal, intelligent and secular Ashkenazi Jew wouldn't want to tie his future to that place. It would eventually become just another MENA society. Ukraine on the other hand, might be rebuilt to accommodate the Ashkenazim secular intellectual and financial elites.

    https://morningexpress.in/we-have-known-each-other-for-thirty-years-in-a-letter-the-writer-marek-halter-urges-putin-to-stop-the-war/

    http://www.khazaria.com/halter.html

    https://www.youtube.com/live/h6tzQprjdzk?feature=share

    There are people who know, remember and honor their ancestors. Others don't. Those who do - prevail upon those who don't.
  939. Biden in Ukraine, WTF???

    This Biden visit blows my mind and gives a lot of support to the idea the war is fake or planned or scripted or however one wants to describe it. It doesn’t seem reasonable to fly a sitting president into a combat zone.

    In any case, it appears to be a solid step toward World War III. I guess that is what (((they))) want.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @QCIC

    Russian Telegram accounts wite that according to official sources, prior to the visit, there were communications between RusFed and Ukiestan authorities to "avoid risky behavior that might lead to a direct confrontation between the two great powers".

  940. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    My idiosyncratic pet theory is that the priestly / royal class of the Iberian / Moroccan Megalithic Culture people, invited or accepted the African Bell-Beaker as a warrior mercenary class and was then replaced with the Bell-Beaker males marrying the local female Megalithic Culture aristocracy
     
    So you are suggesting they were like our elites...?

    Anyway, Megalithic Culture did not have many natural enemies, except, maybe Bell Beakers folks.
    I do not see reason why import them then.

    The El Argar couple where the Queen was a local woman, while the King was a Bell-Beaker might be an indication of how it worked in these Bronze Age matrilinear societies.
     
    Megalitic societies were matrilineal too, so this feature was apparently preserved which suggests Megalithic people retained some power. But El Argar was almost like early slave society, with lower caste people victims of malnutrition etc.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Yes they were exactly like our elites. That is why trusting our elites is foolish.

    Aristocratic Megalithic Culture women retained some (most ?) power, but Megalithic Culture men got flushed from the gene-pool. El Argar is one of the earliest instances of Bell-Beaker admixing with and colonizing native ancient Western Europeans, and yes it looked exactly like an early slave society with a strong social stratification, exactly what I wrote in my comment above – the natives became the “Helotes” to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite “Spartan” overlords.

    Similar situation has been documented elsewhere, in Central Europe, where Bell-Beakers colonized the lands of the Corded Ware Culture folks and drove them fleeing to the East. Tombs have been found with typically Corded Ware Culture burial posture but devoid of grave goods, applied to emaciated Corded Ware men buried holding malnourished children in their arms. Tombs have been found with Corded Ware men, women and children slaughtered. While around the same period and close by, the Bell-Beaker tombs present well fed and strong warriors buried with their grave goods.

    Again, nothing special, we’ve seen it happening as recently as 1930-ies – 1940-ies. Some things don’t really change. A genocide is a genocide. This is what ends up happening when a society is overcome by a predatory elite, whether foreign or local, or produced through admixture of both local and foreign elements.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    It seems Neolithic cultures dispossessed many men by practicing both polygyny and cousin marriage; these dispossessed would be candidates for later helots of Bell Beakers. Such practices not only decreased the diversity of male lineages but obviously had to decrease their general fitness too, so that they were easy prey to diseases, which makes "plagues instead genocide" hypothesis even more likely.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/archaeological-dialogues/article/social-arrangements-kinship-descent-and-affinity-in-the-mortuary-architecture-of-early-neolithic-britain-and-ireland/B8BA2EFC2FCACBD980811175ACF0276F

    Cassidy et al. (Reference Cassidy, Maoldúin and Kador2020) suggest the aDNA from a skull at Newgrange indicates a Middle Neolithic elite dynastic lineage practising polygyny and incest,while their wider data set of samples from passage tombs subjected to shotgun sequencing also suggests ‘non-random mating across large territories of the island’


    This study also commented on the greater diversity of MtDNA haplotypes compared with Y-haplotypes among British Neolithic individuals (ibid., 149), suggesting less genetic diversity among male than female biological ancestors.

    certain paternal biological lineages (especially within haplogroup I) were predominant across large areas

    One male in the first generation reproduced with four women, and some of the descendants of two of these women were consistently placed in the south side of the tomb over several generations, suggesting that descent from a specific maternal ancestor was significant in deciding where to place the dead. The patterns are strong enough to also detect the inclusion of males whose mother reproduced with a lineage male but who themselves had a different biological father: these males may have been adopted as sons by lineage males, suggesting adoptive kinship was practiced (ibid.).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  941. @QCIC
    Biden in Ukraine, WTF???

    This Biden visit blows my mind and gives a lot of support to the idea the war is fake or planned or scripted or however one wants to describe it. It doesn't seem reasonable to fly a sitting president into a combat zone.

    In any case, it appears to be a solid step toward World War III. I guess that is what (((they))) want.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Russian Telegram accounts wite that according to official sources, prior to the visit, there were communications between RusFed and Ukiestan authorities to “avoid risky behavior that might lead to a direct confrontation between the two great powers”.

  942. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Do you have a hypothesis about how the Bell Beaker users (the R1b1a1b-M269 carriers) came to be in the British Isles?
     
    They have swarmed the whole of Western Europe and most of Central Europe up towards modern day Eastern Germany / Western Poland. In a matter of a couple of centuries they have replaced most native European males. It was a genocide. Currently, most British males are their descendants.



    What usually isn't mentioned, is that although Bell-Beaker folks are descended from Yamnaya, it was not a westward migration that brought them to Western Europe. They have first appeared on the Iberian peninsula and around the Gibraltar including northern Morocco. The Moroccan Bell-Beaker finds might be somewhat more ancient than the ones found in Extremadura (earliest in Europe).

    Then they migrated and overtook the territory from the ancient European Y haplogroups. This has been especially damaging for the Y haplogroup I2 that was the most important male haplogroup of the Megalithic Culture. The end of the Megalithic Culture in Western Europe is directly linked with the Bell-Beaker onslaught.

    They came to Britain as any other conquerors did after them. They upended the Megalithic Culture there and mostly replaced the native males as they did everywhere else.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/arrival-of-beaker-folk-changed-britain-forever-ancient-dna-study-shows

    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don't have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).

    At the moment they are also tending to portray Neolithic hunter gathers in Britain as very dark skinned but with blue eyes.
     
    Kostenki K14 man is supposedly close to La Braña man in their genetics, both Y haplogroup C. La Braña carried alleles for blue eyes and dark skin. Early hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia were supposedly also dark skinned, I don't know about their haplogroup though.

    Early European Farmers were basically ancient Anatolian.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-09209-7

    Probably looking like Mediterranean people look today, same as the early Bell-Beaker who are basically a Mediterranean population.

    So the question remains, where does the leucoderm phenotype come from ?

    Either Megalithic or Corded Ware is the most plausible answer. I would bet on the Megalithic because genetically speaking the Corded Ware are closer to Yamnaya than to the Megalithic people. Earliest Corded Ware were probably similar to their Yamnaya cousins, but have picked up the leucoderm phenotype when they intermixed with the Y haplogroup I folks, who might have been the surviving population of the Doggerland "Atlantis".

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Coconuts

    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don’t have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).

    Is the Guardian article based on this study? (seems like it might be):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973796/

    I read this a bit ago, it seems to indicate that the beakers were produced by genetically different populations and that the original creators of them were not the R1b1a1b (R-M269) populations that moved into the British Isles. The authors place the origin of this group in Central Europe, rather than in Iberia and have it moving westwards.

    They also state that this population looked more similar to the modern British in skin tone and eye colour, the Guardian article repeats that part.

    Wikipedia has some references to ancestry proportions of R1b1a1b (R-M269) in Europe:

    Distribution of R-M269 in Europe increases in frequency from east to west. It peaks at the national level in Wales at a rate of 92%, at 82% in Ireland, 70% in Scotland, 68% in Spain, 60% in France (76% in Normandy), about 60% in Portugal,[41] 50% in Germany, 50% in the Netherlands, 47% in Italy, 45% in Eastern England, 43% in Denmark and 42% in Iceland. R-M269 reaches levels as high as 95% in parts of Ireland. It has also been found at lower frequencies throughout central Eurasia,[61] but with relatively high frequency among the Bashkirs of the Perm region (84.0%).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.

    The BB who migrated to the British Isles were not the original BB folks who lived on both sides of the Gibraltar. Several generations have passed between their conquest of Iberian peninsula and their conquest of British Isles. However, even after several generations, this is how a BB woman buried in Scotland typical BB burial, looked like:

    https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/who-were-lost-beaker-people-scotland-2865161

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.

    I believe this where all these "Black Irish" types originated from. Although diluted, the original BB ancestry still sometimes shows off.

    https://cfj.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/George-Clooney-scaled.jpg

    In Central Europe, BB ancestry got even more diluted during Unetice Culture period, when the prot Latino - Celtic population was formed. Unetice and Northern Bronze Age had BB, Corded Ware and Megalithic Culture survivors living in peace and forming a single culture, speaking PIE and having a common religion.

    When the Celts migrated to British Isles, they have added some more R1b haplogroups, but they might have also carried some R1a and I2. At least their Scandinavian / proto-Germanic neighbors to the North carried this mix prior to the addition of the haplogroup N which came with the Finno-Ugric Akozino-Malar warriors during the Iron Age.

    And yes the Bashkir are most probably descended from Yamnaya through the Afanasievo Culture, and the Sarmatians. Hence the R1b.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

  943. @Beckow
    @QCIC

    I use the Neo-Cons as a shorthand, I agree there are other groups pushing the war against Russia for their own reasons. But the Neo-Cons are essential because no other group has the influence in Washington, EU, London to push it this far. Kolomoisky and Pale-restoration dreamers, Galicians, Poles, anti-commie leftovers, are more marginal.

    Reclaimed Pale idea exists, but most rational people think it would be a bridge too far: the territory is too large with too many inhabitants, it has a number of other players trying to control it: Kiev-Ukies, Russia, Poland, even Turkey-Tatars...It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement aif Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.

    The globalists don't want to break everything to destroy it: they want to level things, organize them in ways that better suit them, and eliminate the remaining loose ends around the world: Russia is the biggest and most disruptive loose end. But there are others: 'populists' of all kinds like Trump, non-compradorized Third World, and even the parts of their domestic middle class that are not obeying. The war has helped the globalists, as did Covid, but we are in early stages and the risks are too high - people with golden utensils generally stay away from too much risk.


    Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others
     
    In some ways it is, but there will be a winner and winning matters - France was glorious after winning in WW1, they just got too far ahead of themselves and were not strong enough to hold on to the lead. The golden era of the French and British colonial empires was the 20'-30's, winning WW1 was a big part of it.

    In this war Russia has a clear local dominance, to prevent Russia from winning something external would have to be introduced - we are inching towards it but the odds are that when the chips are down the collective West will pull back and not risk everything. But I could be wrong - that's what makes this so entertaining....

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    Well, I like your guarded optimism.

    If the “New Pale” concept is actually real it would be a long-term plan, much like Israel. I admit it seems like a very slim and maybe wacky prospect, but some of these people take their myths very seriously and literally. The namesake of Chabad is only a couple of hundred miles from the Ukrainian border. Hopefully this is just a random factoid, as opposed to a pointer that the war is actually being fought over hallowed ground which must eventually be claimed at any cost.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @QCIC

    What else do we have left but some optimism? Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation - they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way - and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.

    The only thing I would say is that people with real power in a conflict don't need to constantly engage in gestures - visits, crazy rhetoric, over-the-top media propaganda, all of that suggests the opposite: Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can't win and can't afford to lose - so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality. It is not a pretty picture...it is quite sad. Like an old man yelling at people on his lawn...

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

  944. @Beckow
    @QCIC

    I use the Neo-Cons as a shorthand, I agree there are other groups pushing the war against Russia for their own reasons. But the Neo-Cons are essential because no other group has the influence in Washington, EU, London to push it this far. Kolomoisky and Pale-restoration dreamers, Galicians, Poles, anti-commie leftovers, are more marginal.

    Reclaimed Pale idea exists, but most rational people think it would be a bridge too far: the territory is too large with too many inhabitants, it has a number of other players trying to control it: Kiev-Ukies, Russia, Poland, even Turkey-Tatars...It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement aif Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.

    The globalists don't want to break everything to destroy it: they want to level things, organize them in ways that better suit them, and eliminate the remaining loose ends around the world: Russia is the biggest and most disruptive loose end. But there are others: 'populists' of all kinds like Trump, non-compradorized Third World, and even the parts of their domestic middle class that are not obeying. The war has helped the globalists, as did Covid, but we are in early stages and the risks are too high - people with golden utensils generally stay away from too much risk.


    Ukraine mess is a bit like WW1 which broke Germany, Russia, the Turks and weakened others
     
    In some ways it is, but there will be a winner and winning matters - France was glorious after winning in WW1, they just got too far ahead of themselves and were not strong enough to hold on to the lead. The golden era of the French and British colonial empires was the 20'-30's, winning WW1 was a big part of it.

    In this war Russia has a clear local dominance, to prevent Russia from winning something external would have to be introduced - we are inching towards it but the odds are that when the chips are down the collective West will pull back and not risk everything. But I could be wrong - that's what makes this so entertaining....

    Replies: @QCIC, @Ivashka the fool

    It makes sense, the region would be a natural second settlement if Izrael becomes vulnerable or too small.

    Isreal is already both vulnerable and small. Moreover, with each passing generation, Isreal is becoming more of a Sephardim, Mizrahim society swamped by the Haredim. A normal, intelligent and secular Ashkenazi Jew wouldn’t want to tie his future to that place. It would eventually become just another MENA society. Ukraine on the other hand, might be rebuilt to accommodate the Ashkenazim secular intellectual and financial elites.

    https://morningexpress.in/we-have-known-each-other-for-thirty-years-in-a-letter-the-writer-marek-halter-urges-putin-to-stop-the-war/

    http://www.khazaria.com/halter.html

    https://www.youtube.com/live/h6tzQprjdzk?feature=share

    There are people who know, remember and honor their ancestors. Others don’t. Those who do – prevail upon those who don’t.

  945. @Emil Nikola Richard
    https://i.redd.it/1lpn6guamcja1.jpg

    Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren't saying.

    Replies: @songbird

    Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren’t saying.

    Could be wrong, but if UK is negative (is it really?), hard to imagine those being positive. Especially France, which I believe has onerous taxes.

    Seems to be a big imbalance in the estimates. (Only +1500 to the US and +1000 in Canada – doesn’t make any sense, IMO) Where could they be going? To some O’Neill Cylinder in orbit, to escape the chaos of the coming decline?

    I’d speculate that with the Saudis, a lot of it is explained by the men marrying foreign (primarily Arab-speaking) women, and moving to the countries, where they live, to better leverage the value of their wealth, based on PPP.

    A pity that Goa didn’t become independent. I doubt that massive inflows of Indian money into the West are at all positive. Probably does really bad things to real estate prices, in some places, not considering other things.

    It is interesting to see all the Chinese movie stars getting Singaporean citizenship. Perhaps, they were vindicated by the covid lockdowns? I wonder if the solution to a lot of the problems of globalism might be to create more Singapores, where global elites could feel they could flee and live a cosmopolitan lifestyle without destroying whole countries in the process. Or, perhaps, it would be a net negative?

    • Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    Mulan (2020) is basically a microcosm of CCP in cahoots with Hollywood to make a fake astroturfed history movie--

    - The plot was something about patriotism, but not a single actor in the film held PRC citizenship

    - There's a lot shilling about traditional Chinese culture, but Mulan herself might not have been Han Chinese, but rather a Xianbei.

    In any case, the dynasty she lived in, Northern Wei, was definitely a dynasty ruled by Xianbei horse-riding conqueror khagans, amongst which light hair and blue eyes was not uncommon.

    It would be like portraying someone from the Rus' Khaganate fighting against Huns as an East Slavic national hero.

    https://i.postimg.cc/Jh3NBpf3/Asia-500ad.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @songbird


    Where could they be going?
     
    Austin Texas. South Florida.

    They sure ain't moving to San Francisco.
  946. @QCIC
    @Beckow

    Well, I like your guarded optimism.

    If the "New Pale" concept is actually real it would be a long-term plan, much like Israel. I admit it seems like a very slim and maybe wacky prospect, but some of these people take their myths very seriously and literally. The namesake of Chabad is only a couple of hundred miles from the Ukrainian border. Hopefully this is just a random factoid, as opposed to a pointer that the war is actually being fought over hallowed ground which must eventually be claimed at any cost.

    Replies: @Beckow

    What else do we have left but some optimism? Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation – they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way – and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.

    The only thing I would say is that people with real power in a conflict don’t need to constantly engage in gestures – visits, crazy rhetoric, over-the-top media propaganda, all of that suggests the opposite: Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can’t win and can’t afford to lose – so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality. It is not a pretty picture…it is quite sad. Like an old man yelling at people on his lawn…

    • Replies: @A123
    @Beckow


    Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation – they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way – and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.
     
    As I pointed out earlier (1). House Appropriations for Kiev aggression will be declining by the end of the year. When substance is unavailable, symbolism is all that is left.

    Perhaps sacrificing Not-The-President Biden is acceptable to the DNC. However, Putin is not foolish enough to eliminate the least capable faux leader in U.S. history.

    Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can’t win and can’t afford to lose – so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality.
     
    I am not sure why you keep repeating meaningless phrases like the U.S. "can’t afford to lose". Americans are not interested in winning or losing. We just want to stop spending money on a European led conflict that is wholly unimportant to U.S. national interests.

    America was never committed. We are easily walking away from the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦. The financial loss throwing money at the futility is unfortunate. Sadly, there are worse boondoggles out there.

    This theoretically humiliates Not-The-President Biden. However, he is so far down that falling further into the cesspit is an irrelevancy.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5808816

     
    https://bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/66978f1c-8f26-4f4c-8a5b-9f5ea029f2ca_680x680.jpeg

    Replies: @QCIC

    , @QCIC
    @Beckow

    I agree the visit supports your idea the West is digging a Ukrainian public relations hole they will find it difficult to climb out of. Still, the media has full 24/7 control of the narrative. Maybe this is just the result of one of Biden's criminal contacts in Ukraine calling in a marker before the old coot keels over. Or he is lining up Hunter's next job. See, I can be optimistic, too!

    I'm still a bit worried that Kamala will push old Joe down the stairs so she can become the Big Kahuna. The mind reels.

  947. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader


    If there’s a world war, I want the US to be destroyed for having provoked this war. The pain shouldn’t be limited to the expendable vassals in Europe.
     
    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?...I don't buy it for one minute. And February 24, 2022 was the last possible date for Russia to react in this hostile manner? And besides, wouldn't it actually be much easier to destroy Russia and this point instead of the US? I mean if it actually came to something like this (you first brought up the possibility, and I take you to be a serious person).

    Replies: @German_reader

    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?

    Putin probably did have other options, and if there is a God, I think he will have to answer for all the carnage and suffering caused by his war. I don’t think he intended for something like this when he gave the orders for the invasion, but still, of course he and his government bear much of the responsibility.
    But they aren’t the only culprits. I’m convinced that this war wouldn’t have happened if US (and to a lesser extent EU) policy had been different, if there hadn’t been a determined attempt to use Ukraine’s internal fractures to box in Russia geopolitically and turn Ukraine into an anti-Russian bulwark. And one can’t say that there weren’t ample warnings from the Russian side about the possible consequences. It would have been wiser and imo more moral policy to keep Ukraine a neutral state with economic association to both EU and the former Soviet space, maybe work for gradual change and support genuine attempts at reconciliation through a federal model in Ukraine or something of the sort.
    Now Ukraine’s getting wrecked, Europe’s economy will go to shit and even major European countries like Germany have been shown to be essentially irrelevant pawns. And if we’re unlucky, we might all be incinerated. This is an absolutely catastrophic failure of statesmanship, a consequence of insane hubris.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader

    Yes, there's a lot of carnage going on as a result of this war. Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years? The old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" , is in full display here. All of the political posturings, military theories, conspiracy theories become secondary once somebody crosses a border and starts a war in a neighboring country. It's clear to anybody with eyes to see who's most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

  948. @Beckow
    @QCIC

    What else do we have left but some optimism? Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation - they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way - and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.

    The only thing I would say is that people with real power in a conflict don't need to constantly engage in gestures - visits, crazy rhetoric, over-the-top media propaganda, all of that suggests the opposite: Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can't win and can't afford to lose - so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality. It is not a pretty picture...it is quite sad. Like an old man yelling at people on his lawn...

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation – they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way – and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.

    As I pointed out earlier (1). House Appropriations for Kiev aggression will be declining by the end of the year. When substance is unavailable, symbolism is all that is left.

    Perhaps sacrificing Not-The-President Biden is acceptable to the DNC. However, Putin is not foolish enough to eliminate the least capable faux leader in U.S. history.

    Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can’t win and can’t afford to lose – so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality.

    I am not sure why you keep repeating meaningless phrases like the U.S. “can’t afford to lose”. Americans are not interested in winning or losing. We just want to stop spending money on a European led conflict that is wholly unimportant to U.S. national interests.

    America was never committed. We are easily walking away from the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦. The financial loss throwing money at the futility is unfortunate. Sadly, there are worse boondoggles out there.

    This theoretically humiliates Not-The-President Biden. However, he is so far down that falling further into the cesspit is an irrelevancy.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5808816

     

    • Replies: @QCIC
    @A123

    I think you underestimate how many MAGA supporters who understand that communism is bad are easily converted to believing Russia is bad by association with the Soviet Union. Additionally, they think Ukraine is good by association with anti-Soviet "good guys" such as Nato, Poland, etc. These people are very easily manipulated by the war propaganda.

    All the people I know who might be considered unofficial MAGA types believe Russia is at fault and Ukraine is the good guy.

    Nonetheless, I hope you are correct.

    Replies: @A123

  949. @Beckow
    @Greasy William


    ...then there won’t be peace
     
    Right, there won't be peace. We are in the early stages of this mad war, maybe not time-wise, but in terms of the escalations that are still to come.

    Russia doesn't seem to know geographically precisely what it wants - there was the minimum goal (Donbas), it got enlarged to Crimea littoral, but there are a number of large cities that may or may not be taken by Russia (Nikolaev, Dnipro, Zaporozhie, Kharkiv...). It could become a stalemate, but that is unlikely - one or the other side will break. When Ukies (or Russians) break, there is no stopping it - it usually goes all the way down. In this war, Ukies are obviously more likely to break.

    That suggests that the final settlement will be more comprehensive with a clean sweep, that may include Odessa - the talk about the West willing to go WW3 to preserve Odessa is bravado - not any more than for anything else. If they made a decision to use nukes than it doesn't depend on any single city.

    Replies: @Greasy William, @LondonBob

    101st in Romania just across the border from Odessa, can see them being moved in as a bluff, of course light infantry would be decimated, just don’t see how the US could follow up from there, they don’t have the logistics and the UAF would be gone by then. Watching an elite unit get wiped out would be sobering, there wouldn’t be war cries.

    • Replies: @A123
    @LondonBob

    Not-The-President Biden would need a Declaration of War, or at least an Authorization for Use of Military Force [AUMF] to send regular forces such as the 101st. They have already maxed out the loop holes (trainers, advisors, mercenaries) and those numbers will be headed down as the money is cut off.

    PEACE 😇

  950. @Wokechoke
    The Ukies are in a genuine crisis with tanks, and it’s worth pointing out that there was a significant Tank battle in the north east of Ukraine.
    Around 100 Ukie T64 went toe to toe with CAA and their T72s. Cherniev was surrounded and cut off but held out.


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/25/how-ukraines-1st-tank-brigade-fought-a-russian-force-ten-times-its-size-and-won/?sh=2208e6da6c59

    Their T64 fleet is spent. They will need to refit with Leopards. They will need 800 of them minimum.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    Dima of the Military Summary channel has commented that the Russian MoD has not mentioned destroyed Ukrainian tanks for a few days, given the number requested from the West it would suggest a real shortage.

  951. @German_reader
    @Mikel


    I wonder how long the woke and progressive enthusiastic support of Ukraine will carry on. I guess that believing in CRT or rapid onset gender dysphoria enables you to also be blind to a ridiculous level of double standards and I don’t have any hopes for the American branch of the movement but will the European lefties never realize how different the people they are giving full support in neighboring Ukraine are from them?
     
    Good illustration of this:

    https://twitter.com/GoeringEckardt/status/1621787854530551810

    Leading German Green Katrin Göring-Eckardt meeting and hugging Odessa's governor Maxim Marchenko.
    Marchenko was a commander of the Aidar battalion from 2015-2017...even the (presumably sanitized) Wikipedia page mentions this unit was notorious for far right (up to Neo-Nazism) views and has been accused of committing war crimes in Donbass:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidar_Battalion
    Saw some Ukraine-skeptic leftie on Twitter quip that Marchenko is probably especially happy a German named Göring is coming to visit.

    Göring-Eckardt, like many other Greens (many of whom think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukraine should re-conquer Crimea and Donbass), is now heavily pushing the "Putler wants to destroy Ukraine's cultural identity" line (others of course speak openly of "genocide"). She's also a leading advocate of mass immigration to Germany and has just recently managed to secure state funding (several million Euros a year) for German NGOs picking up Africans and other migrants in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe (her partner Thies Gundlach, a Protestant theologian, is directly involved in organizing these "sea rescue" efforts).

    You're of course right that by any reasonable standards Ukrainian nationalism, with its cult of WW2 fascists and mass murderers, its repressive cultural policies and its many unhinged and megalomaniacal representatives (some of whom are even fantasizing about "tribunals" for Western critics of their country) should be utterly incompatible with "European values". However, I doubt the progressives will notice the contradiction any time soon. Or maybe there isn't even much of a contradiction, it's not like fanaticism and manichaean self-righteousness are in any way alien to the progressive world view.

    Replies: @sudden death, @Yevardian, @LondonBob

    Greens and lefties in general are and always have been warmongers, their metric is simply who/whom as shown by the current conflict.

    • Agree: A123
  952. @songbird
    @Coconuts


    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.
     
    A while back, I listened to an old tape of Rod Serling talking to college kids in the '60s, and he kept talking about a 'white lash.' (he seemed a real unpleasant character, politically speaking). But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.

    Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the ‘low information’ voter part of the population by then as well.
     
    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.

    the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo’s ‘Great Railway Journeys’ series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation
     
    I find it really bizarre that they put The Great Escape on the list, since it shows the Gestapo machine-gunning British POWs. I wonder if it is because Steve McQueen, who had Scot ancestry, was very Nordic-looking, and blond heroes are kind of semi-verboten, especially very daring ones, that in some way personified some masculine ideal.

    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare - for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.

    I also wonder if it was an Indian who found Four Feathers offensive. Did not think the book was widely read today, and the most recent movie seemed fairly woke, IIRC, with its promotion of a black African. Maybe, they googled "novels of the empire period", or something.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    Also interesting to see Tinker, Tailor on the Prevent program list as it has a major gay character in it, depicted somewhat sympathetically.

    Not to mention, that Le Carre is woke as frack. I still laugh at his description of a DRC-mulatto, as a “sun-tanned Irishman” (or something highly similar.)

    If there is one thing I would say about the list, it is that I believe it demonstrates how Euros with traditional values and a sense of identity are really lacking an assertive, modern, productional sphere of any influence.

  953. German_reader says:
    @sudden death
    Looks like there will be more "unknown" air raids on Iran from new old Benjamin the PM:

    19 February 2023, 7:47 pm
    US Ambassador to Israel Tom Nides says the Iran nuclear deal is currently on ice, as the US will not indirectly negotiate with Iran while it supplies Russia drones for use in the war in Ukraine.

    “The Iranians are providing drones to Russia and those drones are killing innocent Ukrainians. There is no chance today of us going back to the negotiating table,” Nides tells the Conference of Presidents, at the group’s event in Jerusalem.

    “As President [Joe] Biden has said, we will not stand by and watch Iran get a nuclear weapon, number one. Number two, he said, all options are on the table. Number three, Israel can and should do whatever they need to deal with and we’ve got their back,” Nides adds.

    “The threat of a nuclear Iran is not just for Israel, it is for the Middle East and America. We are focused on this,” says the ambassador. “The cooperation between Israel and the US vis-a-vis Iran is lockstep. Every day.”
     
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-envoy-nides-israel-can-do-whatever-they-need-on-iran-and-weve-got-their-back/

    Replies: @A123, @German_reader

    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won’t be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination. The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn’t left the agreement, if the Europeans hadn’t shown themselves to be craven cowards and mere puppets, if the sanctions had been at least partially lifted? Absolute fuckup. Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).

    • Replies: @A123
    @German_reader


    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn’t left the agreement
     
    Do you mean the JCPOA agreement that was broken and voided by Khamenei while Obama was still in office? (1)

    after a significant amount of pressure was imposed on the IAEA, and after the IAEA's chief passed away and Iran was reportedly able to moving the suspected materials out of the secret nuclear facility, inspection of the site was recently implemented.

    What was the outcome? Even though the Iranian leaders had cleaned up the facility, the IAEA's inspectors were able to detect traces of radioactive uranium at the site. Israel's warning and other reports had proved accurate.

    Now, Tehran is declining to answer the IAEA's questions about the secret facility. More importantly, one of the most basic requirements of the nuclear deal (while it lasted) was that Iran had to reveal its nuclear activities to the IAEA -- a condition with it even overtly failed to comply
    ...
    The international community would truly do itself a great service to recognize that the nuclear deal was nothing more than a pro-mullah agreement which provided Iran's ruling clerics with billions of dollars to pursue their anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-Iranian people and pro-terror activities, while simultaneously providing cover for Iran to pursue its nuclear ambitions.

     

    Given the 100% proven fact that Khamenei functionally ended JCPOA before Trump was sworn in... Would you please explain how a "political solution" could possibly work?

    Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).
     
    Indeed. Khamenei's refusal to behave in anything like a civilized manner has single handedly brought Iran to the brink of collapse. Hopefully the counter revolution will be a mostly bloodless military coup. Iran following the "Egypt pattern" would be a vast improvement over the current zealot who brutalizes his own people and wantonly murders across the region.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14910/iran-nuclear-deal-violations

    , @sudden death
    @German_reader


    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won’t be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination.
     
    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.

    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement.
     
    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

  954. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren’t saying.
     
    Could be wrong, but if UK is negative (is it really?), hard to imagine those being positive. Especially France, which I believe has onerous taxes.

    Seems to be a big imbalance in the estimates. (Only +1500 to the US and +1000 in Canada - doesn't make any sense, IMO) Where could they be going? To some O'Neill Cylinder in orbit, to escape the chaos of the coming decline?

    I'd speculate that with the Saudis, a lot of it is explained by the men marrying foreign (primarily Arab-speaking) women, and moving to the countries, where they live, to better leverage the value of their wealth, based on PPP.

    A pity that Goa didn't become independent. I doubt that massive inflows of Indian money into the West are at all positive. Probably does really bad things to real estate prices, in some places, not considering other things.

    It is interesting to see all the Chinese movie stars getting Singaporean citizenship. Perhaps, they were vindicated by the covid lockdowns? I wonder if the solution to a lot of the problems of globalism might be to create more Singapores, where global elites could feel they could flee and live a cosmopolitan lifestyle without destroying whole countries in the process. Or, perhaps, it would be a net negative?

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Mulan (2020) is basically a microcosm of CCP in cahoots with Hollywood to make a fake astroturfed history movie–

    – The plot was something about patriotism, but not a single actor in the film held PRC citizenship

    – There’s a lot shilling about traditional Chinese culture, but Mulan herself might not have been Han Chinese, but rather a Xianbei.

    In any case, the dynasty she lived in, Northern Wei, was definitely a dynasty ruled by Xianbei horse-riding conqueror khagans, amongst which light hair and blue eyes was not uncommon.

    It would be like portraying someone from the Rus’ Khaganate fighting against Huns as an East Slavic national hero.

    • Thanks: songbird
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    The Rus' Khaganate originated a few centuries after the Huns demise. Also I think that the ancestors of the Eastern Slav fought with the Hun, not against them.

    , @Wokechoke
    @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    You are showing yourself up here, either trolling or stupidity. The Huns were a late Roman era threat culminating at a battle in Chalons, 451AD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Catalaunian_Plains

    We can't even be sure who the Huns really were. Atilla could have just been a cavalry warlord leading a largely German horde.


    Do you mean that the Rus being battered by Mongols in the 1200s?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Destruction_of_Ryazan


    The population where Moscow is now the central metro area was densely populated at the time and remained so during the Mongol conquest.

  955. @songbird
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Apparently France Germany and Netherlands aren’t saying.
     
    Could be wrong, but if UK is negative (is it really?), hard to imagine those being positive. Especially France, which I believe has onerous taxes.

    Seems to be a big imbalance in the estimates. (Only +1500 to the US and +1000 in Canada - doesn't make any sense, IMO) Where could they be going? To some O'Neill Cylinder in orbit, to escape the chaos of the coming decline?

    I'd speculate that with the Saudis, a lot of it is explained by the men marrying foreign (primarily Arab-speaking) women, and moving to the countries, where they live, to better leverage the value of their wealth, based on PPP.

    A pity that Goa didn't become independent. I doubt that massive inflows of Indian money into the West are at all positive. Probably does really bad things to real estate prices, in some places, not considering other things.

    It is interesting to see all the Chinese movie stars getting Singaporean citizenship. Perhaps, they were vindicated by the covid lockdowns? I wonder if the solution to a lot of the problems of globalism might be to create more Singapores, where global elites could feel they could flee and live a cosmopolitan lifestyle without destroying whole countries in the process. Or, perhaps, it would be a net negative?

    Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Where could they be going?

    Austin Texas. South Florida.

    They sure ain’t moving to San Francisco.

    • Agree: songbird
  956. Must have been deliberately chosen optics for Zelensky with Dark Brandon to go in front of blessing Orthodox saints and churches, probably as a response to all that tuckerian propjunk about “war on christianity”:

  957. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    Mulan (2020) is basically a microcosm of CCP in cahoots with Hollywood to make a fake astroturfed history movie--

    - The plot was something about patriotism, but not a single actor in the film held PRC citizenship

    - There's a lot shilling about traditional Chinese culture, but Mulan herself might not have been Han Chinese, but rather a Xianbei.

    In any case, the dynasty she lived in, Northern Wei, was definitely a dynasty ruled by Xianbei horse-riding conqueror khagans, amongst which light hair and blue eyes was not uncommon.

    It would be like portraying someone from the Rus' Khaganate fighting against Huns as an East Slavic national hero.

    https://i.postimg.cc/Jh3NBpf3/Asia-500ad.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    The Rus’ Khaganate originated a few centuries after the Huns demise. Also I think that the ancestors of the Eastern Slav fought with the Hun, not against them.

  958. @LondonBob
    @Beckow

    101st in Romania just across the border from Odessa, can see them being moved in as a bluff, of course light infantry would be decimated, just don't see how the US could follow up from there, they don't have the logistics and the UAF would be gone by then. Watching an elite unit get wiped out would be sobering, there wouldn't be war cries.

    Replies: @A123

    Not-The-President Biden would need a Declaration of War, or at least an Authorization for Use of Military Force [AUMF] to send regular forces such as the 101st. They have already maxed out the loop holes (trainers, advisors, mercenaries) and those numbers will be headed down as the money is cut off.

    PEACE 😇

  959. @German_reader
    @sudden death

    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won't be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination. The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn't left the agreement, if the Europeans hadn't shown themselves to be craven cowards and mere puppets, if the sanctions had been at least partially lifted? Absolute fuckup. Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).

    Replies: @A123, @sudden death

    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn’t left the agreement

    Do you mean the JCPOA agreement that was broken and voided by Khamenei while Obama was still in office? (1)

    after a significant amount of pressure was imposed on the IAEA, and after the IAEA’s chief passed away and Iran was reportedly able to moving the suspected materials out of the secret nuclear facility, inspection of the site was recently implemented.

    What was the outcome? Even though the Iranian leaders had cleaned up the facility, the IAEA’s inspectors were able to detect traces of radioactive uranium at the site. Israel’s warning and other reports had proved accurate.

    Now, Tehran is declining to answer the IAEA’s questions about the secret facility. More importantly, one of the most basic requirements of the nuclear deal (while it lasted) was that Iran had to reveal its nuclear activities to the IAEA — a condition with it even overtly failed to comply

    The international community would truly do itself a great service to recognize that the nuclear deal was nothing more than a pro-mullah agreement which provided Iran’s ruling clerics with billions of dollars to pursue their anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-Iranian people and pro-terror activities, while simultaneously providing cover for Iran to pursue its nuclear ambitions.

    Given the 100% proven fact that Khamenei functionally ended JCPOA before Trump was sworn in… Would you please explain how a “political solution” could possibly work?

    Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).

    Indeed. Khamenei’s refusal to behave in anything like a civilized manner has single handedly brought Iran to the brink of collapse. Hopefully the counter revolution will be a mostly bloodless military coup. Iran following the “Egypt pattern” would be a vast improvement over the current zealot who brutalizes his own people and wantonly murders across the region.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    (1) https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14910/iran-nuclear-deal-violations

  960. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    So it was the US that provoked the Russia/Ukraine war, by placing Russia into a situation of imminent danger and there was no other option than to charge into Ukraine and foment this war?
     
    Putin probably did have other options, and if there is a God, I think he will have to answer for all the carnage and suffering caused by his war. I don't think he intended for something like this when he gave the orders for the invasion, but still, of course he and his government bear much of the responsibility.
    But they aren't the only culprits. I'm convinced that this war wouldn't have happened if US (and to a lesser extent EU) policy had been different, if there hadn't been a determined attempt to use Ukraine's internal fractures to box in Russia geopolitically and turn Ukraine into an anti-Russian bulwark. And one can't say that there weren't ample warnings from the Russian side about the possible consequences. It would have been wiser and imo more moral policy to keep Ukraine a neutral state with economic association to both EU and the former Soviet space, maybe work for gradual change and support genuine attempts at reconciliation through a federal model in Ukraine or something of the sort.
    Now Ukraine's getting wrecked, Europe's economy will go to shit and even major European countries like Germany have been shown to be essentially irrelevant pawns. And if we're unlucky, we might all be incinerated. This is an absolutely catastrophic failure of statesmanship, a consequence of insane hubris.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Yes, there’s a lot of carnage going on as a result of this war. Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years? The old axiom “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” , is in full display here. All of the political posturings, military theories, conspiracy theories become secondary once somebody crosses a border and starts a war in a neighboring country. It’s clear to anybody with eyes to see who’s most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years?
     
    imo it wasn't inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War. There's something of a self-fulfilling prophecy here...if you treat a country like an enemy where everything is reduced to a zero sum competition without any room for genuine compromise, the other side will eventually start behaving like an enemy. The same could be said of US policy towards China and Iran btw. As a result there's an emerging anti-Western bloc, pretty much a nightmare scenario by any standards.

    It’s clear to anybody with eyes to see who’s most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.
     
    I don't agree, but at this point there's probably not much point to discussing the issues anyway, the situation is beyond salvaging.
    If it all goes boom, it won't matter anyway who's more responsible.

    Replies: @songbird

  961. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Yes they were exactly like our elites. That is why trusting our elites is foolish.

    Aristocratic Megalithic Culture women retained some (most ?) power, but Megalithic Culture men got flushed from the gene-pool. El Argar is one of the earliest instances of Bell-Beaker admixing with and colonizing native ancient Western Europeans, and yes it looked exactly like an early slave society with a strong social stratification, exactly what I wrote in my comment above - the natives became the "Helotes" to the Bell-Beaker warrior elite "Spartan" overlords.

    Similar situation has been documented elsewhere, in Central Europe, where Bell-Beakers colonized the lands of the Corded Ware Culture folks and drove them fleeing to the East. Tombs have been found with typically Corded Ware Culture burial posture but devoid of grave goods, applied to emaciated Corded Ware men buried holding malnourished children in their arms. Tombs have been found with Corded Ware men, women and children slaughtered. While around the same period and close by, the Bell-Beaker tombs present well fed and strong warriors buried with their grave goods.

    Again, nothing special, we've seen it happening as recently as 1930-ies - 1940-ies. Some things don't really change. A genocide is a genocide. This is what ends up happening when a society is overcome by a predatory elite, whether foreign or local, or produced through admixture of both local and foreign elements.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    It seems Neolithic cultures dispossessed many men by practicing both polygyny and cousin marriage; these dispossessed would be candidates for later helots of Bell Beakers. Such practices not only decreased the diversity of male lineages but obviously had to decrease their general fitness too, so that they were easy prey to diseases, which makes “plagues instead genocide” hypothesis even more likely.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/archaeological-dialogues/article/social-arrangements-kinship-descent-and-affinity-in-the-mortuary-architecture-of-early-neolithic-britain-and-ireland/B8BA2EFC2FCACBD980811175ACF0276F

    Cassidy et al. (Reference Cassidy, Maoldúin and Kador2020) suggest the aDNA from a skull at Newgrange indicates a Middle Neolithic elite dynastic lineage practising polygyny and incest,while their wider data set of samples from passage tombs subjected to shotgun sequencing also suggests ‘non-random mating across large territories of the island’

    This study also commented on the greater diversity of MtDNA haplotypes compared with Y-haplotypes among British Neolithic individuals (ibid., 149), suggesting less genetic diversity among male than female biological ancestors.

    certain paternal biological lineages (especially within haplogroup I) were predominant across large areas

    One male in the first generation reproduced with four women, and some of the descendants of two of these women were consistently placed in the south side of the tomb over several generations, suggesting that descent from a specific maternal ancestor was significant in deciding where to place the dead. The patterns are strong enough to also detect the inclusion of males whose mother reproduced with a lineage male but who themselves had a different biological father: these males may have been adopted as sons by lineage males, suggesting adoptive kinship was practiced (ibid.).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Interesting. Perhaps the first BB folks got "adopted" into the royal / priestly elite of MC folks and then took over. There were finds of BB folks buried in the elite tombs previously used by the elite of conquered peoples. And BB also practiced polygeny. I don't know about CW folks though.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  962. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    (Sorry to post from the Guardian, I don’t have time now to find a more palatable source of information 🙂).
     
    Is the Guardian article based on this study? (seems like it might be):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973796/

    I read this a bit ago, it seems to indicate that the beakers were produced by genetically different populations and that the original creators of them were not the R1b1a1b (R-M269) populations that moved into the British Isles. The authors place the origin of this group in Central Europe, rather than in Iberia and have it moving westwards.

    They also state that this population looked more similar to the modern British in skin tone and eye colour, the Guardian article repeats that part.

    Wikipedia has some references to ancestry proportions of R1b1a1b (R-M269) in Europe:

    Distribution of R-M269 in Europe increases in frequency from east to west. It peaks at the national level in Wales at a rate of 92%, at 82% in Ireland, 70% in Scotland, 68% in Spain, 60% in France (76% in Normandy), about 60% in Portugal,[41] 50% in Germany, 50% in the Netherlands, 47% in Italy, 45% in Eastern England, 43% in Denmark and 42% in Iceland. R-M269 reaches levels as high as 95% in parts of Ireland. It has also been found at lower frequencies throughout central Eurasia,[61] but with relatively high frequency among the Bashkirs of the Perm region (84.0%).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.

    The BB who migrated to the British Isles were not the original BB folks who lived on both sides of the Gibraltar. Several generations have passed between their conquest of Iberian peninsula and their conquest of British Isles. However, even after several generations, this is how a BB woman buried in Scotland typical BB burial, looked like:

    https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/who-were-lost-beaker-people-scotland-2865161

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.

    I believe this where all these “Black Irish” types originated from. Although diluted, the original BB ancestry still sometimes shows off.

    In Central Europe, BB ancestry got even more diluted during Unetice Culture period, when the prot Latino – Celtic population was formed. Unetice and Northern Bronze Age had BB, Corded Ware and Megalithic Culture survivors living in peace and forming a single culture, speaking PIE and having a common religion.

    When the Celts migrated to British Isles, they have added some more R1b haplogroups, but they might have also carried some R1a and I2. At least their Scandinavian / proto-Germanic neighbors to the North carried this mix prior to the addition of the haplogroup N which came with the Finno-Ugric Akozino-Malar warriors during the Iron Age.

    And yes the Bashkir are most probably descended from Yamnaya through the Afanasievo Culture, and the Sarmatians. Hence the R1b.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool


    George’s father is of half Irish and one quarter German ancestry, with his other quarter being a mix of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish/Northern Irish ancestry. George’s mother has English ancestry, along with more distant Scottish, Welsh, and remote French Huguenot and Dutch, roots.
     
    https://ethnicelebs.com/george-clooney

    Replies: @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.
     
    The authors of that study repeat the same thing in the appendix about the genetic origins of the Bell Beaker complex (it seems to have been one of their big findings):

    Our result that the majority of Beaker-associated skeletons from Iberia are genetically continuous with previous Iberian populations—with no evidence for a strong contribution of Iberian Beaker-associated populations to non-Iberian Beaker-associated ones—is an important fact to take into account in future discussions of the origin and spread of the
    Beaker Complex.
     
    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number? Iirc the guy writing in Eupedia about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there. R1b1b (R-V88) is mentioned as being already in Iberia in Neolithic times, he links them with the early beakers.

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.
     
    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad's side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn't know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it's obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya

  963. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    It seems Neolithic cultures dispossessed many men by practicing both polygyny and cousin marriage; these dispossessed would be candidates for later helots of Bell Beakers. Such practices not only decreased the diversity of male lineages but obviously had to decrease their general fitness too, so that they were easy prey to diseases, which makes "plagues instead genocide" hypothesis even more likely.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/archaeological-dialogues/article/social-arrangements-kinship-descent-and-affinity-in-the-mortuary-architecture-of-early-neolithic-britain-and-ireland/B8BA2EFC2FCACBD980811175ACF0276F

    Cassidy et al. (Reference Cassidy, Maoldúin and Kador2020) suggest the aDNA from a skull at Newgrange indicates a Middle Neolithic elite dynastic lineage practising polygyny and incest,while their wider data set of samples from passage tombs subjected to shotgun sequencing also suggests ‘non-random mating across large territories of the island’


    This study also commented on the greater diversity of MtDNA haplotypes compared with Y-haplotypes among British Neolithic individuals (ibid., 149), suggesting less genetic diversity among male than female biological ancestors.

    certain paternal biological lineages (especially within haplogroup I) were predominant across large areas

    One male in the first generation reproduced with four women, and some of the descendants of two of these women were consistently placed in the south side of the tomb over several generations, suggesting that descent from a specific maternal ancestor was significant in deciding where to place the dead. The patterns are strong enough to also detect the inclusion of males whose mother reproduced with a lineage male but who themselves had a different biological father: these males may have been adopted as sons by lineage males, suggesting adoptive kinship was practiced (ibid.).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Interesting. Perhaps the first BB folks got “adopted” into the royal / priestly elite of MC folks and then took over. There were finds of BB folks buried in the elite tombs previously used by the elite of conquered peoples. And BB also practiced polygeny. I don’t know about CW folks though.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Maybe MC were into extreme matrilineality and thought that only survival of female lineages really counts, so they accepted their submission as long as BBs did not disposes MC females, who kept their status. For BBs, MC with its megaliths must have looked like some advanced civilization (like Rome for barbarians, hm) and maybe they took the deal.

    But MC was so bad for non-elite men that my compassion for them significantly decreased.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  964. @Sher Singh
    @AnonfromTN

    Hello, you were the remaining Sovok who hadn't answered.

    Final fact is, the people lynching you definitely do care and Gods would rather watch than save you.

    End of story.

    Hohol

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    Hohol

    Now I know why Sikhs do not have their own state. Actually, for the same reason Kurds don’t have their own state. The common reason: always backing the wrong horse.

  965. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.

    The BB who migrated to the British Isles were not the original BB folks who lived on both sides of the Gibraltar. Several generations have passed between their conquest of Iberian peninsula and their conquest of British Isles. However, even after several generations, this is how a BB woman buried in Scotland typical BB burial, looked like:

    https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/who-were-lost-beaker-people-scotland-2865161

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.

    I believe this where all these "Black Irish" types originated from. Although diluted, the original BB ancestry still sometimes shows off.

    https://cfj.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/George-Clooney-scaled.jpg

    In Central Europe, BB ancestry got even more diluted during Unetice Culture period, when the prot Latino - Celtic population was formed. Unetice and Northern Bronze Age had BB, Corded Ware and Megalithic Culture survivors living in peace and forming a single culture, speaking PIE and having a common religion.

    When the Celts migrated to British Isles, they have added some more R1b haplogroups, but they might have also carried some R1a and I2. At least their Scandinavian / proto-Germanic neighbors to the North carried this mix prior to the addition of the haplogroup N which came with the Finno-Ugric Akozino-Malar warriors during the Iron Age.

    And yes the Bashkir are most probably descended from Yamnaya through the Afanasievo Culture, and the Sarmatians. Hence the R1b.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    George’s father is of half Irish and one quarter German ancestry, with his other quarter being a mix of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish/Northern Irish ancestry. George’s mother has English ancestry, along with more distant Scottish, Welsh, and remote French Huguenot and Dutch, roots.

    https://ethnicelebs.com/george-clooney

    • Replies: @LatW
    @songbird

    A young George Clooney looked even darker (his grey hair actually makes him look lighter than he originally is, I know a Celt who has platinum grey hair that makes her look almost like a platinum blonde, while her original hair was almost black).

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/fa/ae/0bfaae9046ac8cfbcaa778db2ba4ff6f.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @Greasy William

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    In a word, a typical Bell-Beaker. I was right in choosing his picture as an illustration of what they might have been.



    https://i0.wp.com/archaeology.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/163424.jpg

    Replies: @AP

  966. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    Interesting. Perhaps the first BB folks got "adopted" into the royal / priestly elite of MC folks and then took over. There were finds of BB folks buried in the elite tombs previously used by the elite of conquered peoples. And BB also practiced polygeny. I don't know about CW folks though.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Maybe MC were into extreme matrilineality and thought that only survival of female lineages really counts, so they accepted their submission as long as BBs did not disposes MC females, who kept their status. For BBs, MC with its megaliths must have looked like some advanced civilization (like Rome for barbarians, hm) and maybe they took the deal.

    But MC was so bad for non-elite men that my compassion for them significantly decreased.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    "Bad", of course, from heterosexual point of view.
    There is a possibility that significant share of MC men were gays, and thus not desired women. I am really curious how this society functioned in practice - after all, if one man has 4 women, 3 other men have no women at all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

  967. @Beckow
    @QCIC

    What else do we have left but some optimism? Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation - they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way - and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.

    The only thing I would say is that people with real power in a conflict don't need to constantly engage in gestures - visits, crazy rhetoric, over-the-top media propaganda, all of that suggests the opposite: Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can't win and can't afford to lose - so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality. It is not a pretty picture...it is quite sad. Like an old man yelling at people on his lawn...

    Replies: @A123, @QCIC

    I agree the visit supports your idea the West is digging a Ukrainian public relations hole they will find it difficult to climb out of. Still, the media has full 24/7 control of the narrative. Maybe this is just the result of one of Biden’s criminal contacts in Ukraine calling in a marker before the old coot keels over. Or he is lining up Hunter’s next job. See, I can be optimistic, too!

    I’m still a bit worried that Kamala will push old Joe down the stairs so she can become the Big Kahuna. The mind reels.

  968. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Maybe MC were into extreme matrilineality and thought that only survival of female lineages really counts, so they accepted their submission as long as BBs did not disposes MC females, who kept their status. For BBs, MC with its megaliths must have looked like some advanced civilization (like Rome for barbarians, hm) and maybe they took the deal.

    But MC was so bad for non-elite men that my compassion for them significantly decreased.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    “Bad”, of course, from heterosexual point of view.
    There is a possibility that significant share of MC men were gays, and thus not desired women. I am really curious how this society functioned in practice – after all, if one man has 4 women, 3 other men have no women at all.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In fact, this article suggests that Neolithic cultures were much less "gendered" than later ones, which obviously suggests "fluid gender". And well, I heard a review of recent "Elvis" movie (I did not see it) which claimed that Elvis Presley had fluid gender... well he was also of Neolithic haplotype I2 ;)

    For many regions, the Neolithic record of funerary practices, households, and skeletal analyses is as good as that for the Bronze Age. The body of material culture and scientific data on Neolithic human lives is large and steadily increasing. In all of these, gender could have been clearly expressed, but it was not. How many cemeteries that do not display neatly gendered burials do we need to excavate before we can recognize that, in fact, Neolithic burials usually were not neatly gendered, and that this may be telling us something important about Neolithic gender?

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-antiquity/article/becoming-gendered-in-european-prehistory-was-neolithic-gender-fundamentally-different/061B7788A1633D9EF10918BA4FB15A5A

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think MC were basically a theocracy. The religious motives are very important in their culture. They have clearly had very strong and structured spiritual beliefs.

    Also, MC groups traveled far and wide. Megalithic structures are found as far East as Urals (https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/megaliticheskie-sooruzheniya-urala-struktura-sakralnogo-prostranstva), South-East as Caucasus (https://kulturologia.ru/blogs/120617/34816/) and as South as CentralAfrica (http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/page-francaise/1629-tazanu-les-megalithes-de-bouar.html). If it is indeed people from the MC that have left all these megaliths , then probably, these traveling groups might have absorbed the excess of the younger male population.



    The MC were probably seafaring. So it is interesting to think about the Guanche people that were natives to the Canary Islands, spoke a language that was probably some Afro-asiatic form of proto-Berber, but were taller, more fair-skinned and pale-eyed than the Spaniards who conquered them, enslaved them and drove them into extinction. The Guanche didn't seem to be expert seafaring tribes and it is unclear how they actually got to settle the Canarian archipelago. There are a couple of small megalithic sites in the Canarias, but nothing too extraordinary.

    https://www.blackgate.com/2015/08/26/the-guanches-prehistoric-culture-of-the-canary-islands/

    The continental Berber also erected megaliths.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/libyan-studies/article/abs/megalithic-architecture-and-funerary-practices-in-the-late-prehistory-of-wadi-tanezzuft-libyan-sahara/99CF0DD6D881411C1039931498E6CE22

    There are literally thousands of sites accross North Africa, the most famous among these being the Nabta Playa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa

    And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles.

    Lhttps://codecs.vanhamel.nl/Matasovi%C4%87_2012b

    Probably just a coincidence.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  969. German_reader says:
    @Mr. Hack
    @German_reader

    Yes, there's a lot of carnage going on as a result of this war. Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years? The old axiom "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" , is in full display here. All of the political posturings, military theories, conspiracy theories become secondary once somebody crosses a border and starts a war in a neighboring country. It's clear to anybody with eyes to see who's most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years?

    imo it wasn’t inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War. There’s something of a self-fulfilling prophecy here…if you treat a country like an enemy where everything is reduced to a zero sum competition without any room for genuine compromise, the other side will eventually start behaving like an enemy. The same could be said of US policy towards China and Iran btw. As a result there’s an emerging anti-Western bloc, pretty much a nightmare scenario by any standards.

    It’s clear to anybody with eyes to see who’s most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.

    I don’t agree, but at this point there’s probably not much point to discussing the issues anyway, the situation is beyond salvaging.
    If it all goes boom, it won’t matter anyway who’s more responsible.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    imo it wasn’t inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War.
     
    The Mir-Shuttle program represented the hopes for something totally different. When they were docked, it was easy to see the light with the naked eye, and people would look for it rushing across the night sky and hope for something different.

    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of "depreciating enemy assets" (or whatever the phrase was).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

  970. @A123
    @Beckow


    Biden flying to Kiev is another escalation – they are desperately trying to signal to Russia that they are in all the way – and with the visit, and the visuals, the Biden&Co. are digging themselves deeper in the hole they are already in.
     
    As I pointed out earlier (1). House Appropriations for Kiev aggression will be declining by the end of the year. When substance is unavailable, symbolism is all that is left.

    Perhaps sacrificing Not-The-President Biden is acceptable to the DNC. However, Putin is not foolish enough to eliminate the least capable faux leader in U.S. history.

    Washington got itself into a mess, into a war that they can’t win and can’t afford to lose – so they scream and shout and hope that the noise will distract from that reality.
     
    I am not sure why you keep repeating meaningless phrases like the U.S. "can’t afford to lose". Americans are not interested in winning or losing. We just want to stop spending money on a European led conflict that is wholly unimportant to U.S. national interests.

    America was never committed. We are easily walking away from the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦. The financial loss throwing money at the futility is unfortunate. Sadly, there are worse boondoggles out there.

    This theoretically humiliates Not-The-President Biden. However, he is so far down that falling further into the cesspit is an irrelevancy.

    PEACE 😇
    ___________

    (1) https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-208/#comment-5808816

     
    https://bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/66978f1c-8f26-4f4c-8a5b-9f5ea029f2ca_680x680.jpeg

    Replies: @QCIC

    I think you underestimate how many MAGA supporters who understand that communism is bad are easily converted to believing Russia is bad by association with the Soviet Union. Additionally, they think Ukraine is good by association with anti-Soviet “good guys” such as Nato, Poland, etc. These people are very easily manipulated by the war propaganda.

    All the people I know who might be considered unofficial MAGA types believe Russia is at fault and Ukraine is the good guy.

    Nonetheless, I hope you are correct.

    • Replies: @A123
    @QCIC


    All the people I know who might be considered unofficial MAGA types believe Russia is at fault and Ukraine is the good guy.
     
    Due to exposure to unhinged Ukie nutters here, I am much more on the RF side. Most of the MAGA folks I associate with are at slightly RF leaning as a consequence to the "Russia, Russia, Russia" mythology and Hunter's bribe taking. However, the other way has a presence. Regardless of which mild leaning (if any) they have on the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦, it is largely "inch deep" support.

    Domestic issues dominate, such as immigration, education, and MAGA Reindustrialization. Cutting off transfers to Kiev frees up tens of billions of dollars for other uses. Support will not go to zero. However, there will be less of it and it will be audited.

    PEACE 😇
  971. IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments.

    Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments....Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.
     
    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment.

    The train's inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    There are other ways, of course, and if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. :-)

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What's really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they've dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    A soldier still in his chain mail...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Kettenhaube_1.jpg/800px-Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Kettenhaube_1.jpg

    Three arrows to the head. Definite overkill!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Pfeilspitzen.jpg/800px-Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Pfeilspitzen.jpg

    The Grenskorset battlefield monument erected in memory of the fallen Gotlanders on the 20th anniversary of the Dane Invasion in 1381.


    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments....Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.
     
    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment. The train's inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    Of course, if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. :-)

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What's really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they've dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Grenskorset.JPG

    Replies: @songbird

  972. @Yahya
    @A123


    If men can claim to be women, and vice versa. Why is PoC any different? “If you feel colored, you are colored”. Right my home boyzzz?
     
    Feelz over reelz.

    If a woman feelz she is a man; then she be a man.

    If a white lady feelz she be colored; then she be colored.

    If an Irish-American feelz he iz German; then he be German.

    It be metafyzikal.

    Thas waz up.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    If a woman feelz she is a man; then she be a man.

    By that logic, if a guy feels he is Napoleon or Julius Caesar, then he is. Why do we think that his place is in the lunatic asylum? I hold that a guy who feels that he is a woman should be treated exactly the same as a guy who feels he is a Napoleon.

    • LOL: LatW
  973. @A123
    @Greasy William


    Right now Russia is not being offered a ceasefire. But if Russia is offered a ceasefire and removal of the post invasion sanctions and yet still continues to fight on, the West absolutely thwill escalate and rightly so as they can not give into nuclear extortion.
     
    An armistice at the current line is possible. The Kiev regime does not want a deal. Therein lies the problem.

    The West won’t send in troops or establish a no fly zone, but I could see them giving Ukraine large amounts of ATACMS and increasing the number of mercenaries.
     
    There are not that many advanced, expensive consumables like ATACMS in stock. Where would they come from?

    As I previously indicated, a significant cut back in American funding is inevitable. Where will the mercenaries and €uros to continue the fight come from? France & Germany?

    Based on the RAND article, the US isn’t even willing to give the no NATO/EU pledge.
     
    Why ask the U.S. for a "no EU" pledge? The suggestion is patently absurd. For NATO, as I have explained repeatedly to another commenter, the other only way to bind future U.S. administrations is a Senate ratified treaty.

    The best path is bypassing the disengaging U.S. Congress and the failed Not-The-President Biden regime. Any needed NATO and/or EU language can be dealt with in a bilateral Ukraine-Russia peace deal.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.

    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal. When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as “Kiev regime”.

    • Replies: @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime, albeit one that would require far more repression because Belarussian people are generally more willing to be Russia's puppets than are Ukrainians.

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory. The nature of the trade between freedom from Russia and loss of territory can by each side to determine who has "won."

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sean

    , @A123
    @AnonfromTN



    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.
     
    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal.
     
    I largely concur.

    The European Empire is pulling strings in both Ukraine and America. Not-The-President Biden is also void of agency.

    • Ukrainians need to get rid of Zelensky
    • Americans equally need to get rid of the coup regime here

    When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as “Kiev regime”.
     
    Thanks to the 2022 midterms, America's unilateral draw down is assured. Nobody is going to ask the clowns and junkies representing Not-The-President Biden for anything. After all, his failing regime cannot deliver anything.

    If the European Empire amps up the cash, perhaps there will be an RF/EU deal.

    More likely the European WEF will not support Kiev. Zelensky will flee to the EU to begin a lucrative career giving speeches and writing placing his name on books. Putin will make a deal with the successor Ukrainian government which will have some agency.

    Yes. It will be much worse than Ukraine could have gotten before Zelensky unnecessarily provoked Putin. FAAFO.

    PEACE 😇
  974. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    "Bad", of course, from heterosexual point of view.
    There is a possibility that significant share of MC men were gays, and thus not desired women. I am really curious how this society functioned in practice - after all, if one man has 4 women, 3 other men have no women at all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    In fact, this article suggests that Neolithic cultures were much less “gendered” than later ones, which obviously suggests “fluid gender”. And well, I heard a review of recent “Elvis” movie (I did not see it) which claimed that Elvis Presley had fluid gender… well he was also of Neolithic haplotype I2 😉

    For many regions, the Neolithic record of funerary practices, households, and skeletal analyses is as good as that for the Bronze Age. The body of material culture and scientific data on Neolithic human lives is large and steadily increasing. In all of these, gender could have been clearly expressed, but it was not. How many cemeteries that do not display neatly gendered burials do we need to excavate before we can recognize that, in fact, Neolithic burials usually were not neatly gendered, and that this may be telling us something important about Neolithic gender?

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-antiquity/article/becoming-gendered-in-european-prehistory-was-neolithic-gender-fundamentally-different/061B7788A1633D9EF10918BA4FB15A5A

  975. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP


    The obvious one is the far greater amount of social interactions, that have to be managed in more sophisticated ways. Then, there is the need for higher order more abstract thought, achieving literacy, etc. Many machines to use, with additional rules corresponding to their use.
     
    Well, I was writing about metrics to measure systems' level of complexity. What you wrote about is quite interesting, but in terms of units of information needed to describe each part and parcel of the system, a mature ecosystem beats down anything we could possibly achieve as urban landscape. It is also more optimal from thermodynamics pov and it is obviously environment-friendly. It is also self-perpetuating as long as the environmental conditions don't change too drastically. Nothing we could possibly build compares to that.

    http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Complexity#:~:text=from%20random%20systems.-,Complexity%20as%20Structure%20and%20Information,or%20interactions%20within%20a%20system.

    http://www.ciesin.org/docs/002-109/002-109.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7517404/

    You seem to mistakenly conflate two different things: predictability, and complexity.
     

    https://www.britannica.com/science/complexity-scientific-theory/Predictability

    Any complex system is less predictable. And any mature ecosystem is way much complex, integrated and organized that anything we can build today. This is entirely reasonable because life has been optimizing the flows of energy and information for a billion years on this planet alone, and possibly elsewhere if we believe in Panspermia (entirely believable from the astrobiology pov).

    I get now why you believe human civilization has created more complexity. It is simply because just as you are a classical conservative in your political and social opinions, you are also a classical humanist when it comes to looking at human interaction with their environment.

    I respect that, but from the point of view of systems theory, biology, thermodynamics, information
    science, humans are not the be all end all pinnacles of Creation. When objectively measured the efficiency of the biological cell's thermodynamics is orders of magnitude above anything we could build in chemical engineering. Same if we measure its information content. Same if we look at the total complexity of a mature ecosystem (myriads of cells working together) vs the most sophisticated urban landscape humans could possibly bulldoze it into.

    Life is optimal compared to technology.

    Technologism is Demiurge's thinking.

    Антихристово добро (которое до добра не доведёт).

    Природа - божий свет и божий мир.

    Мир in Russian is from the same root as Mehr in Iranian - Mithras in Greek. The divine concord and agreement - interbeing.

    But that's another matter altogether.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @AP

    Thank you for the thoughtful response. What you state is correct, but it seems as if we are talking past each other here.

    I was not arguing that man-made environments and objects (the product of civilization) are more complex than natural ones. Of course cells are more complex than most man-made objects. But rather that man’s role in his environment and relationship to it becomes far more complex in civilization, as he creates and uses these simpler-than-raw-nature objects and manages a simpler-than-nature man-made environment. Doing so forces civilized people to be more complex than their predecessors. A natural riverine ecosystem is more complex than a predictable system of more or less uniform irrigation canals and rice fields, but someone managing the irrigation canals for the purpose of agriculture and doing so in the necessary context of a huge web of social networks is involved in far more complexity than someone just gathering berries on the edge of the riverbank with a band of a dozen close relatives. Yes, a cell is far more complex than a flint arrowhead, windmill, a telescope, or an alphabet, but most humans don’t deal with cells.

    Природа – божий свет и божий мир.

    Correct, and we were also Природа. All of us, even our brains and therefore what we can produce with those brains and how we can appreciate what we have produced. Our cathedrals are just as natural as complex crystals and our choices to build what we consider to be beautiful is just as natural as the wind shaping stone over thousands of years, and even our choices to pour soot into the air is just as natural as the destruction made by volcanic eruptions. But remember that God incarnated as one of us, we are totally natural but at the same time of a higher order within this nature.

  976. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.
     
    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal. When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as "Kiev regime".

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime, albeit one that would require far more repression because Belarussian people are generally more willing to be Russia’s puppets than are Ukrainians.

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory. The nature of the trade between freedom from Russia and loss of territory can by each side to determine who has “won.”

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @AP


    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory.
     
    FYI, I was talking about possible deals between real players, not about pipe dreams of people who never lived in Ukraine, nor about cocaine-induced dreams of a clown whose peak performance was playing piano with his dick.
    , @Sean
    @AP

    In 1994 as parrt of Ukraine renouncing nukes, ruzzia guaranteed Ukrainians' security (against Russia apparently). That was an unreasonable promise for Russia to make or anyone to believe because no country can go beyond its own interests. You know who told Ukraine to keep its nuclear weapons don't you: Mearsheimer. Other counties would doubtless have loved Russia to renounce force in all circumstances. But it never did; although it is true that previous Russian leaders had warned that war would be an eventual outcome to untrammeled Nato eastward expansion yet they did nothing. Putin maide the same objections but he did not stop at warnings; Vlad turned out to not be Gandhi, but there was no reason to think he was. Ukraine and the US ignored warning after warning since 2008. The war may be unjustified, but it was not unprovoked. Ukraine knew it was taking a chance ignoring all the warnings that it was being provocative


    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime
     
    The deal in 2019 was Ukraine remained independent and free--except to join Nato. You freedom to swing your arms about stops at the tip of my nose. In prectice most men will stop you sooner

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give
     
    There was in modified Minsk of 2019 restriction on Ukrainian foreign policy. Domestically there's be little change, certainly compared to the current position of a man liable to be conscripted and sent to Bakhmut style battles, and in any case forbidden to leave the country if between 16 and 60

    [A]t the price of some loss of territory
     

    In the version of Minsk that Zelensky backed out of signing in 2019, Donbass had in effect a veto over the rest of Ukraine in respect of joining Nato. Ukraine had already lost Crimea so the days of an intact Ukraine were already gone. As a result of backing out of Minsk they have lost Donbass too.

    The border between Russia and Ukraine will be decided by the balance of forces on each side of it, like every other border in the world. What we have here is a WW1 style of artillery war where the surprise loser will be in possession of a genuine superpower arsenal of nuclear weapons ( including the world's largest collection of tactical ones) when suffering the crowning humiliation. Anyone who thinks they know what will happen is kidding themselves. WW2 started because of appeasement. WW1's origins were different. So don't thinky that all we have to do to avoid WW3 is to avoid appeasement , because then you might inadvertently find yourself in a general war no one wanted. We don't know whether Putin considers this war of his in Ukraine to be defence, and so not one he can accept a loss in.


    The Ukrainians are firing more rounds a day through their Western howitzers than the Western suppliers knew those weapons could fire (they are designed for) and that is from a Ukrainian gunner speaking on CNN. The British minister of Defence in the last few days has publicly asked Ukraine to stop trying to keep up with Russia in artillery because the West will not be able to keep Ukraine supplied at the current rate. Are the Russians even trying to 'breakthrough' and presumably seize lots of territory quickly to the maximum extent possible We tend to assume they are trying that, but they seem to be going too slow, considering a reportedly large force being held in reserve . That the mobilized troops are all gone seems dubious. . I think Macgregor's suggestion that Russia wants to keep Ukraine in an artillery logistics battle of attrition may be more along the right lines. A massive taking of territory in a successful Russian offensive might produce a big American response, maybe even a direct one. Russia is trying to make the war boring.

    For decades Britain has been increasing the share of the country's budget spent on health and welfare payments, and done so without increasing taxes, by taking from the money to be spent on defence. The British army had been cut to the bone before the Ukraine war, it is now giving away to Ukraine things that will eat into its (already attenuated) capabilities. In Afghanistan the British army were dependent on the US for helicopter transport., now it will be everything. For West European countries, Nato is all about doing defence on the cheap, courtesy, of American taxpayers a la Germany, and having ever increasing social spending. Actually fighting a war (especially one where there are approaching 1k fatalities a day as in Ukraine) will be a deal breaker for Nato members.


    I don't think making dramatic advances and taking territory is a Russian priority any longer. You need to relate Russian losses to Ukrainian ones. Russia might lose a division a in Bakhmut each day and yet win the entire war, if Ukraine's military casualties each day were comparable in number and quality of human resources.

  977. @AnonfromTN
    @A123


    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.
     
    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal. When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as "Kiev regime".

    Replies: @AP, @A123

    The Kiev regime does not want a deal.

    You talk as if the Kiev regime has an agency. The problem is that their puppeteers (who happen to be the source of their finances and weapons, as well) don’t want a deal.

    I largely concur.

    The European Empire is pulling strings in both Ukraine and America. Not-The-President Biden is also void of agency.

    • Ukrainians need to get rid of Zelensky
    • Americans equally need to get rid of the coup regime here

    When they do, they are going to get a lot worse deal than they could have a year ago. But whatever deal is made between the RF and the US, nobody is going to ask those clowns and junkies now posing as “Kiev regime”.

    Thanks to the 2022 midterms, America’s unilateral draw down is assured. Nobody is going to ask the clowns and junkies representing Not-The-President Biden for anything. After all, his failing regime cannot deliver anything.

    If the European Empire amps up the cash, perhaps there will be an RF/EU deal.

    More likely the European WEF will not support Kiev. Zelensky will flee to the EU to begin a lucrative career giving speeches and writing placing his name on books. Putin will make a deal with the successor Ukrainian government which will have some agency.

    Yes. It will be much worse than Ukraine could have gotten before Zelensky unnecessarily provoked Putin. FAAFO.

    PEACE 😇

  978. @QCIC
    @A123

    I think you underestimate how many MAGA supporters who understand that communism is bad are easily converted to believing Russia is bad by association with the Soviet Union. Additionally, they think Ukraine is good by association with anti-Soviet "good guys" such as Nato, Poland, etc. These people are very easily manipulated by the war propaganda.

    All the people I know who might be considered unofficial MAGA types believe Russia is at fault and Ukraine is the good guy.

    Nonetheless, I hope you are correct.

    Replies: @A123

    All the people I know who might be considered unofficial MAGA types believe Russia is at fault and Ukraine is the good guy.

    Due to exposure to unhinged Ukie nutters here, I am much more on the RF side. Most of the MAGA folks I associate with are at slightly RF leaning as a consequence to the “Russia, Russia, Russia” mythology and Hunter’s bribe taking. However, the other way has a presence. Regardless of which mild leaning (if any) they have on the 🇺🇦fad🇺🇦, it is largely “inch deep” support.

    Domestic issues dominate, such as immigration, education, and MAGA Reindustrialization. Cutting off transfers to Kiev frees up tens of billions of dollars for other uses. Support will not go to zero. However, there will be less of it and it will be audited.

    PEACE 😇

  979. @German_reader
    @Mr. Hack


    Is it a big surprise that the US would come to the aid of Ukraine, and try and weaken its biggest adversary in the world for over the last 75 years?
     
    imo it wasn't inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War. There's something of a self-fulfilling prophecy here...if you treat a country like an enemy where everything is reduced to a zero sum competition without any room for genuine compromise, the other side will eventually start behaving like an enemy. The same could be said of US policy towards China and Iran btw. As a result there's an emerging anti-Western bloc, pretty much a nightmare scenario by any standards.

    It’s clear to anybody with eyes to see who’s most to blame for the sorry state of affairs in Europe.
     
    I don't agree, but at this point there's probably not much point to discussing the issues anyway, the situation is beyond salvaging.
    If it all goes boom, it won't matter anyway who's more responsible.

    Replies: @songbird

    imo it wasn’t inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War.

    The Mir-Shuttle program represented the hopes for something totally different. When they were docked, it was easy to see the light with the naked eye, and people would look for it rushing across the night sky and hope for something different.

    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of “depreciating enemy assets” (or whatever the phrase was).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of “depreciating enemy assets” (or whatever the phrase was).
     
    Well, no offense to both of them, but as commenter Matra has remarked in their past, they're both diaspora nationalists, in their case it's just a rationalization why their primary loyalty is supposedly in line with the interests of their host nation. Understandable in a way.
    What I find more puzzling is that a lot of Westerners without connection to Ukraine seem to be almost enthusiastic about confrontation with Russia, not in a "Wish it could have been different, unfortunately it's necessary" way, but almost as if they enjoy the experience...that stupid bitch Baerbock was recently in Finland and admired the bunkers there (jumping around like little girls do in their games, apparently she had fun)..."We need something like that in Germany", lol. All that militancy has such a surreal feeling to it, would never have expected to experience something like that.
    , @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    It appears that it's actually you who forgot how the "light in the sky" project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.

    Replies: @songbird

  980. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @A123

    Why aren't you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration? The weather is lovely for it.

    Replies: @A123, @AnonfromTN

    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration?

    Well, I was there, mostly out of curiosity, and I was not impressed. Maybe 300 people were there at the peak. After 6th or 7th speaker the speeches became boringly repetitive, and people started to leave. I’d say the best performance by far was Jimmy Dore. If they threw away most of the speakers and left 3-4, Jimmy Dore, and a few songs, it could have been a success. As it is, it wasn’t.

    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Thank you very much for the report!

    Appears almost nobody cares. How was the weather? The weather page I looked at said it was pretty nice.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  981. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    "Bad", of course, from heterosexual point of view.
    There is a possibility that significant share of MC men were gays, and thus not desired women. I am really curious how this society functioned in practice - after all, if one man has 4 women, 3 other men have no women at all.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    I think MC were basically a theocracy. The religious motives are very important in their culture. They have clearly had very strong and structured spiritual beliefs.

    Also, MC groups traveled far and wide. Megalithic structures are found as far East as Urals (https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/megaliticheskie-sooruzheniya-urala-struktura-sakralnogo-prostranstva), South-East as Caucasus (https://kulturologia.ru/blogs/120617/34816/) and as South as CentralAfrica (http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/page-francaise/1629-tazanu-les-megalithes-de-bouar.html). If it is indeed people from the MC that have left all these megaliths , then probably, these traveling groups might have absorbed the excess of the younger male population.

    [MORE]

    The MC were probably seafaring. So it is interesting to think about the Guanche people that were natives to the Canary Islands, spoke a language that was probably some Afro-asiatic form of proto-Berber, but were taller, more fair-skinned and pale-eyed than the Spaniards who conquered them, enslaved them and drove them into extinction. The Guanche didn’t seem to be expert seafaring tribes and it is unclear how they actually got to settle the Canarian archipelago. There are a couple of small megalithic sites in the Canarias, but nothing too extraordinary.

    https://www.blackgate.com/2015/08/26/the-guanches-prehistoric-culture-of-the-canary-islands/

    The continental Berber also erected megaliths.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/libyan-studies/article/abs/megalithic-architecture-and-funerary-practices-in-the-late-prehistory-of-wadi-tanezzuft-libyan-sahara/99CF0DD6D881411C1039931498E6CE22

    There are literally thousands of sites accross North Africa, the most famous among these being the Nabta Playa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa

    And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles.

    Lhttps://codecs.vanhamel.nl/Matasovi%C4%87_2012b

    Probably just a coincidence.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    "And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles."

    Phoenicians, of course...

    Sammes claimed that the Phoenicians settled in southern Britain, while the German Cimbri colonised the north.
    It was, wrote Sammes, the Phoenicians who left the bigger mark: ‘Not only the name of Britain itself, but of most places therein of ancient denomination are purely derived from the Phoenician Tongue, and … the Language itself for the most part, as well as the Customs, Religions, Idols, Offices, Dignities of the Ancient Britains are all clearly Phoenician, as likewise their instruments of war.’ For Sammes, British words derived from Phoenician include the name of Cornwall and the word for beer, and survivals of Phoenician culture include the site of Stonehenge. What language does he think the Phoenicians spoke?

    https://aeon.co/essays/phoenicia-an-imaginary-friend-to-nations-in-need-of-ancestors

    [Not sure what has happened here with tagging.]

    Replies: @Beckow

  982. @German_reader
    @sudden death

    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won't be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination. The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement. Would Iran support Russia in Ukraine, if the US hadn't left the agreement, if the Europeans hadn't shown themselves to be craven cowards and mere puppets, if the sanctions had been at least partially lifted? Absolute fuckup. Now the only thing they can hope for is revolution in Iran, maybe a break-up of the state (what a wonderful prospect, the carnage and the refugee streams would be a sight to behold).

    Replies: @A123, @sudden death

    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won’t be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination.

    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.

    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement.

    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    • Agree: A123
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @sudden death


    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.
     
    The US withdrew from the agreement and blocked all sanctions relief. iirc Iran was still fully in compliance for about a year after that, only then did Iran start to renege on its obligations, gradually. Their hope probably was that either the Europeans would show some independence (Britain, France and Germany were part of the agreement after all and should have shown some spine in keeping it alive...if they weren't mere puppets, that is), or that Biden's administration would quickly re-enter the agreement. Both didn't happen.
    And of course there were other events that didn't do much for diplomacy like the killing of Soleimani or Israel's ongoing assassinations campaign (designed to sabotage any negotiations).
    By now it's certainly too late. But the way I understand it, there is no military way to permanently destroy Iran's nuclear programme by air strikes, and a ground invasion of Iran would be impossible even if there weren't more pressing issues regarding Russia and China. So in all probability Iran is going to get nuclear weapons in the near future. Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia and Turkey to get them as well.

    Replies: @songbird

    , @A123
    @sudden death


    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.
     
    Centrifuge trains capable of separating U235 from U238 based on density are quite sensitive. They cannot be made "100% totally immune" to bombing and replacement is a long lead time effort. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

    Also, Mossad is pretty good at targeting and sabotage, so there are other options if bombing is made inconvenient. Can you say "STUXNET 2024"?

    if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.
     
    You could make your point stronger by removing the word "if". I presented that exact fact set. I'll even share the link again.

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14910/iran-nuclear-deal-violations

    Absolutely everyone paying attention grasps that Khamenei abrogated JCPOA while Obama was still President. Blaming Trump for something he did not do is Leftoid Sheeple bleating. I cannot fathom why GR believes his precious Merkel could obtain compliance from deal breaking Iran.

    I wish I was shocked at this level of willing self deception, but... Well... The human race. (shakes head mournfully)

    PEACE 😇
  983. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    imo it wasn’t inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War.
     
    The Mir-Shuttle program represented the hopes for something totally different. When they were docked, it was easy to see the light with the naked eye, and people would look for it rushing across the night sky and hope for something different.

    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of "depreciating enemy assets" (or whatever the phrase was).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of “depreciating enemy assets” (or whatever the phrase was).

    Well, no offense to both of them, but as commenter Matra has remarked in their past, they’re both diaspora nationalists, in their case it’s just a rationalization why their primary loyalty is supposedly in line with the interests of their host nation. Understandable in a way.
    What I find more puzzling is that a lot of Westerners without connection to Ukraine seem to be almost enthusiastic about confrontation with Russia, not in a “Wish it could have been different, unfortunately it’s necessary” way, but almost as if they enjoy the experience…that stupid bitch Baerbock was recently in Finland and admired the bunkers there (jumping around like little girls do in their games, apparently she had fun)…”We need something like that in Germany”, lol. All that militancy has such a surreal feeling to it, would never have expected to experience something like that.

    • Agree: songbird
  984. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime, albeit one that would require far more repression because Belarussian people are generally more willing to be Russia's puppets than are Ukrainians.

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory. The nature of the trade between freedom from Russia and loss of territory can by each side to determine who has "won."

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sean

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory.

    FYI, I was talking about possible deals between real players, not about pipe dreams of people who never lived in Ukraine, nor about cocaine-induced dreams of a clown whose peak performance was playing piano with his dick.

  985. @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard


    Why aren’t you at the Rage Against the War Machine demonstration?
     
    Well, I was there, mostly out of curiosity, and I was not impressed. Maybe 300 people were there at the peak. After 6th or 7th speaker the speeches became boringly repetitive, and people started to leave. I’d say the best performance by far was Jimmy Dore. If they threw away most of the speakers and left 3-4, Jimmy Dore, and a few songs, it could have been a success. As it is, it wasn’t.

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard

    Thank you very much for the report!

    Appears almost nobody cares. How was the weather? The weather page I looked at said it was pretty nice.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    The weather was nice, warm and sunny. Maybe there was too much sun. The meeting was rather unimpressive. Looks like nothing can get Americans to act. Their money to the tune of 100 billion is being stolen under the pretext of Ukraine (we all know that only a small part of it goes to the Ukrainian thieves, most is stolen by the American thieves), their very survival is being endangered in the process, yet they remain docile.

    BTW, new joke: Ohio declared itself part of Ukraine in the hope of getting some federal assistance.

  986. German_reader says:
    @sudden death
    @German_reader


    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won’t be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination.
     
    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.

    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement.
     
    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    The US withdrew from the agreement and blocked all sanctions relief. iirc Iran was still fully in compliance for about a year after that, only then did Iran start to renege on its obligations, gradually. Their hope probably was that either the Europeans would show some independence (Britain, France and Germany were part of the agreement after all and should have shown some spine in keeping it alive…if they weren’t mere puppets, that is), or that Biden’s administration would quickly re-enter the agreement. Both didn’t happen.
    And of course there were other events that didn’t do much for diplomacy like the killing of Soleimani or Israel’s ongoing assassinations campaign (designed to sabotage any negotiations).
    By now it’s certainly too late. But the way I understand it, there is no military way to permanently destroy Iran’s nuclear programme by air strikes, and a ground invasion of Iran would be impossible even if there weren’t more pressing issues regarding Russia and China. So in all probability Iran is going to get nuclear weapons in the near future. Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia and Turkey to get them as well.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @German_reader


    Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia
     
    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. Nuclear war seems to really promote the ascetism that the old zealots favored. Though I guess, if they were ever hit in retribution, they'd get it pretty bad because of the lack of rain, and duststorms.

    Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD - Iraq couldn't), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan - not that that is necessarily impossible. But I presume Pakistan doesn't have the H-bomb. Not that a Saudi with atom-bombs would be great.

    China appears to be ramping up its nuclear forces, to a large degree, which may have interesting ramifications on the sub-Continent. (right now, India seems to have a relatively weak nuclear deterrent, possibly all atom-bombs.) What shall happen if India upgrades too? Will Pakistan? And then what?

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

  987. @Ivashka the fool
    @Another Polish Perspective

    I think MC were basically a theocracy. The religious motives are very important in their culture. They have clearly had very strong and structured spiritual beliefs.

    Also, MC groups traveled far and wide. Megalithic structures are found as far East as Urals (https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/megaliticheskie-sooruzheniya-urala-struktura-sakralnogo-prostranstva), South-East as Caucasus (https://kulturologia.ru/blogs/120617/34816/) and as South as CentralAfrica (http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/page-francaise/1629-tazanu-les-megalithes-de-bouar.html). If it is indeed people from the MC that have left all these megaliths , then probably, these traveling groups might have absorbed the excess of the younger male population.



    The MC were probably seafaring. So it is interesting to think about the Guanche people that were natives to the Canary Islands, spoke a language that was probably some Afro-asiatic form of proto-Berber, but were taller, more fair-skinned and pale-eyed than the Spaniards who conquered them, enslaved them and drove them into extinction. The Guanche didn't seem to be expert seafaring tribes and it is unclear how they actually got to settle the Canarian archipelago. There are a couple of small megalithic sites in the Canarias, but nothing too extraordinary.

    https://www.blackgate.com/2015/08/26/the-guanches-prehistoric-culture-of-the-canary-islands/

    The continental Berber also erected megaliths.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/libyan-studies/article/abs/megalithic-architecture-and-funerary-practices-in-the-late-prehistory-of-wadi-tanezzuft-libyan-sahara/99CF0DD6D881411C1039931498E6CE22

    There are literally thousands of sites accross North Africa, the most famous among these being the Nabta Playa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa

    And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles.

    Lhttps://codecs.vanhamel.nl/Matasovi%C4%87_2012b

    Probably just a coincidence.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    “And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles.”

    Phoenicians, of course…

    Sammes claimed that the Phoenicians settled in southern Britain, while the German Cimbri colonised the north.
    It was, wrote Sammes, the Phoenicians who left the bigger mark: ‘Not only the name of Britain itself, but of most places therein of ancient denomination are purely derived from the Phoenician Tongue, and … the Language itself for the most part, as well as the Customs, Religions, Idols, Offices, Dignities of the Ancient Britains are all clearly Phoenician, as likewise their instruments of war.’ For Sammes, British words derived from Phoenician include the name of Cornwall and the word for beer, and survivals of Phoenician culture include the site of Stonehenge. What language does he think the Phoenicians spoke?

    https://aeon.co/essays/phoenicia-an-imaginary-friend-to-nations-in-need-of-ancestors

    [Not sure what has happened here with tagging.]

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles
     
    Not only in the British Isles. There is evidence that a lot of words originated - or were influenced - by a developed language vaguely related to the Dravidian family. This ancient substratum is present in our abstract terms.

    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.

    It is hard to prove and there is no physical evidence or writing. But it was possible and is reflected in the early Sumerian myths and in the deep substratum of the Phoenician language, its abstract and trading words. The idea is that Phoenicians were originally colonists-traders with sailing skills - with copper and bronze - who moved west from the Indian Ocean and were absorbed by the local Semitic people. Then they continued expanding along the Mediterranean shores.

    Physically these people would be darker, swarthier, shorter and less physically dominant. But they had something that allowed them to expand (even dominate): better technology, attractive verbal-myths culture, and more wealth ('goodies', coins...)...there must had been a lot of local 'compradors' who helped these outsiders, and of course, the local women would go for the shiny stuff...that could explain George Clooney...

    Replies: @Yevardian

  988. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @AnonfromTN

    Thank you very much for the report!

    Appears almost nobody cares. How was the weather? The weather page I looked at said it was pretty nice.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    The weather was nice, warm and sunny. Maybe there was too much sun. The meeting was rather unimpressive. Looks like nothing can get Americans to act. Their money to the tune of 100 billion is being stolen under the pretext of Ukraine (we all know that only a small part of it goes to the Ukrainian thieves, most is stolen by the American thieves), their very survival is being endangered in the process, yet they remain docile.

    BTW, new joke: Ohio declared itself part of Ukraine in the hope of getting some federal assistance.

  989. @songbird
    @German_reader


    imo it wasn’t inevitable that Russia would be an enemy again after the end of the Cold War.
     
    The Mir-Shuttle program represented the hopes for something totally different. When they were docked, it was easy to see the light with the naked eye, and people would look for it rushing across the night sky and hope for something different.

    Mr. Hack and AP seem to have totally forgotten about it, with their talk of "depreciating enemy assets" (or whatever the phrase was).

    Replies: @German_reader, @Mr. Hack

    It appears that it’s actually you who forgot how the “light in the sky” project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    It appears that it’s actually you who forgot how the “light in the sky” project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.
     
    Huh? That was a big part of the very design of the program. Subsidy by the US to keep the Russian space program going, and the US could easily afford it, compared to sending billions to Ukraine now.

    It helped ease some of the political resistance in Russia due to a lot of people in the space program having a military background and remembering and strongly resenting what the US did in Afghanistan. "Depreciation of the assets of a strategic competitor" in the euphemism that is employed on this forum. Along with that equipment "depreciated", thousands of Russians were killed and maimed. Thousands of mothers lost their sons.

    I have read Scott Kelly's book. He said that his apartment in Baikonur was once vandalized by such people.

    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn't have toilet paper, but what Kelly called 'a communal _ss brush.'

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN

  990. @German_reader
    @sudden death


    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.
     
    The US withdrew from the agreement and blocked all sanctions relief. iirc Iran was still fully in compliance for about a year after that, only then did Iran start to renege on its obligations, gradually. Their hope probably was that either the Europeans would show some independence (Britain, France and Germany were part of the agreement after all and should have shown some spine in keeping it alive...if they weren't mere puppets, that is), or that Biden's administration would quickly re-enter the agreement. Both didn't happen.
    And of course there were other events that didn't do much for diplomacy like the killing of Soleimani or Israel's ongoing assassinations campaign (designed to sabotage any negotiations).
    By now it's certainly too late. But the way I understand it, there is no military way to permanently destroy Iran's nuclear programme by air strikes, and a ground invasion of Iran would be impossible even if there weren't more pressing issues regarding Russia and China. So in all probability Iran is going to get nuclear weapons in the near future. Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia and Turkey to get them as well.

    Replies: @songbird

    Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia

    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. Nuclear war seems to really promote the ascetism that the old zealots favored. Though I guess, if they were ever hit in retribution, they’d get it pretty bad because of the lack of rain, and duststorms.

    Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD – Iraq couldn’t), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan – not that that is necessarily impossible. But I presume Pakistan doesn’t have the H-bomb. Not that a Saudi with atom-bombs would be great.

    China appears to be ramping up its nuclear forces, to a large degree, which may have interesting ramifications on the sub-Continent. (right now, India seems to have a relatively weak nuclear deterrent, possibly all atom-bombs.) What shall happen if India upgrades too? Will Pakistan? And then what?

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @songbird


    or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan
     
    Probably the most likely route, this has long been discussed as a possibility.

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb
     
    Regarding Turkey, iirc I posted this a few years ago:
    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/turkey-secretly-working-nuclear-weapons-13898

    Googling I found this (related to comments Erdogan made in 2019):
    https://dayan.org/content/turkeys-nuclear-future

    I'm not looking forward to it either. I'm not too worried about Iran, but imo nuclear-armed Turkey and Saudi-Arabia would be a nightmare from a European pov.
    , @A123
    @songbird


    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. ... Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD – Iraq couldn’t), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan – not that that is necessarily impossible.
     
    The current Saudi leadership realizes the mistake made several rulers ago and is trying to quash and exclude the Wahhabi fringe. However, backsliding is a legitimate concern.

    The best way to keep Saudi out of the club is to keep Iran out. If Iran joins, the Saudis must also obtain them no matter the cost.


    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

     

    If Turkey goes, so must Greece. The dynamic is not dissimilar to Iran/Saudi.

    To make the cost more manageable it would likely be a consortium of other countries with Greece. Cyprus would want to join, though as a very junior partner. Larger potential team members include Italy and the Visegrád 4 nations.

    Both the UK and Israel would be potential technical advisors to accelerate development. The former is more likely as payback for Brussels shenanigans over Brexit. Israel might participate as part of a hydrocarbon energy play including EastMed, but that is not as emotionally compelling.

    PEACE 😇

  991. @AP
    @AnonfromTN

    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime, albeit one that would require far more repression because Belarussian people are generally more willing to be Russia's puppets than are Ukrainians.

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give (they were willing to give practically none), at the price of some loss of territory. The nature of the trade between freedom from Russia and loss of territory can by each side to determine who has "won."

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @Sean

    In 1994 as parrt of Ukraine renouncing nukes, ruzzia guaranteed Ukrainians’ security (against Russia apparently). That was an unreasonable promise for Russia to make or anyone to believe because no country can go beyond its own interests. You know who told Ukraine to keep its nuclear weapons don’t you: Mearsheimer. Other counties would doubtless have loved Russia to renounce force in all circumstances. But it never did; although it is true that previous Russian leaders had warned that war would be an eventual outcome to untrammeled Nato eastward expansion yet they did nothing. Putin maide the same objections but he did not stop at warnings; Vlad turned out to not be Gandhi, but there was no reason to think he was. Ukraine and the US ignored warning after warning since 2008. The war may be unjustified, but it was not unprovoked. Ukraine knew it was taking a chance ignoring all the warnings that it was being provocative

    The deal a year ago was loss of independence and having the status of a Belarus-style puppet regime

    The deal in 2019 was Ukraine remained independent and free–except to join Nato. You freedom to swing your arms about stops at the tip of my nose. In prectice most men will stop you sooner

    What Ukraine will likely get is far more freedom than the Russians were willing to give

    There was in modified Minsk of 2019 restriction on Ukrainian foreign policy. Domestically there’s be little change, certainly compared to the current position of a man liable to be conscripted and sent to Bakhmut style battles, and in any case forbidden to leave the country if between 16 and 60

    [A]t the price of some loss of territory

    In the version of Minsk that Zelensky backed out of signing in 2019, Donbass had in effect a veto over the rest of Ukraine in respect of joining Nato. Ukraine had already lost Crimea so the days of an intact Ukraine were already gone. As a result of backing out of Minsk they have lost Donbass too.

    The border between Russia and Ukraine will be decided by the balance of forces on each side of it, like every other border in the world. What we have here is a WW1 style of artillery war where the surprise loser will be in possession of a genuine superpower arsenal of nuclear weapons ( including the world’s largest collection of tactical ones) when suffering the crowning humiliation. Anyone who thinks they know what will happen is kidding themselves. WW2 started because of appeasement. WW1’s origins were different. So don’t thinky that all we have to do to avoid WW3 is to avoid appeasement , because then you might inadvertently find yourself in a general war no one wanted. We don’t know whether Putin considers this war of his in Ukraine to be defence, and so not one he can accept a loss in.

    The Ukrainians are firing more rounds a day through their Western howitzers than the Western suppliers knew those weapons could fire (they are designed for) and that is from a Ukrainian gunner speaking on CNN. The British minister of Defence in the last few days has publicly asked Ukraine to stop trying to keep up with Russia in artillery because the West will not be able to keep Ukraine supplied at the current rate. Are the Russians even trying to ‘breakthrough’ and presumably seize lots of territory quickly to the maximum extent possible We tend to assume they are trying that, but they seem to be going too slow, considering a reportedly large force being held in reserve . That the mobilized troops are all gone seems dubious. . I think Macgregor’s suggestion that Russia wants to keep Ukraine in an artillery logistics battle of attrition may be more along the right lines. A massive taking of territory in a successful Russian offensive might produce a big American response, maybe even a direct one. Russia is trying to make the war boring.

    For decades Britain has been increasing the share of the country’s budget spent on health and welfare payments, and done so without increasing taxes, by taking from the money to be spent on defence. The British army had been cut to the bone before the Ukraine war, it is now giving away to Ukraine things that will eat into its (already attenuated) capabilities. In Afghanistan the British army were dependent on the US for helicopter transport., now it will be everything. For West European countries, Nato is all about doing defence on the cheap, courtesy, of American taxpayers a la Germany, and having ever increasing social spending. Actually fighting a war (especially one where there are approaching 1k fatalities a day as in Ukraine) will be a deal breaker for Nato members.

    I don’t think making dramatic advances and taking territory is a Russian priority any longer. You need to relate Russian losses to Ukrainian ones. Russia might lose a division a in Bakhmut each day and yet win the entire war, if Ukraine’s military casualties each day were comparable in number and quality of human resources.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  992. German_reader says:
    @songbird
    @German_reader


    Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia
     
    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. Nuclear war seems to really promote the ascetism that the old zealots favored. Though I guess, if they were ever hit in retribution, they'd get it pretty bad because of the lack of rain, and duststorms.

    Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD - Iraq couldn't), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan - not that that is necessarily impossible. But I presume Pakistan doesn't have the H-bomb. Not that a Saudi with atom-bombs would be great.

    China appears to be ramping up its nuclear forces, to a large degree, which may have interesting ramifications on the sub-Continent. (right now, India seems to have a relatively weak nuclear deterrent, possibly all atom-bombs.) What shall happen if India upgrades too? Will Pakistan? And then what?

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan

    Probably the most likely route, this has long been discussed as a possibility.

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb

    Regarding Turkey, iirc I posted this a few years ago:
    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/turkey-secretly-working-nuclear-weapons-13898

    Googling I found this (related to comments Erdogan made in 2019):
    https://dayan.org/content/turkeys-nuclear-future

    I’m not looking forward to it either. I’m not too worried about Iran, but imo nuclear-armed Turkey and Saudi-Arabia would be a nightmare from a European pov.

    • Agree: songbird
  993. @Mr. Hack
    @songbird

    It appears that it's actually you who forgot how the "light in the sky" project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.

    Replies: @songbird

    It appears that it’s actually you who forgot how the “light in the sky” project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.

    Huh? That was a big part of the very design of the program. Subsidy by the US to keep the Russian space program going, and the US could easily afford it, compared to sending billions to Ukraine now.

    It helped ease some of the political resistance in Russia due to a lot of people in the space program having a military background and remembering and strongly resenting what the US did in Afghanistan. “Depreciation of the assets of a strategic competitor” in the euphemism that is employed on this forum. Along with that equipment “depreciated”, thousands of Russians were killed and maimed. Thousands of mothers lost their sons.

    I have read Scott Kelly’s book. He said that his apartment in Baikonur was once vandalized by such people.

    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn’t have toilet paper, but what Kelly called ‘a communal _ss brush.’

    • Replies: @sudden death
    @songbird


    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn’t have toilet paper, but what Kelly called ‘a communal _ss brush.’
     
    btw, simple toilet paper was so called "deficit" item in a mighty shiny USSR paradise too, was hard to get in stores as it was nearly missing all the time. Like the initial Covid craze, but permanent, lol
    , @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    they didn’t have toilet paper
     
    For whatever reason toilet paper was virtually absent in the USSR. People used to wipe their behinds with newspapers. There was even a joke about that:
    - Did you subscribe to “Pravda”? (“Pravda” was the main communist party newspaper)
    - I don’t need to. I have radio.
    - So, now you wipe your ass with an antenna?

    Toilet paper is available in abundance in the RF now. During covid scare the tables were turned: toilet paper disappeared throughout the US and much of Europe, but was easily available in the RF.

    Replies: @songbird, @Philip Owen

  994. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    It appears that it’s actually you who forgot how the “light in the sky” project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.
     
    Huh? That was a big part of the very design of the program. Subsidy by the US to keep the Russian space program going, and the US could easily afford it, compared to sending billions to Ukraine now.

    It helped ease some of the political resistance in Russia due to a lot of people in the space program having a military background and remembering and strongly resenting what the US did in Afghanistan. "Depreciation of the assets of a strategic competitor" in the euphemism that is employed on this forum. Along with that equipment "depreciated", thousands of Russians were killed and maimed. Thousands of mothers lost their sons.

    I have read Scott Kelly's book. He said that his apartment in Baikonur was once vandalized by such people.

    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn't have toilet paper, but what Kelly called 'a communal _ss brush.'

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN

    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn’t have toilet paper, but what Kelly called ‘a communal _ss brush.’

    btw, simple toilet paper was so called “deficit” item in a mighty shiny USSR paradise too, was hard to get in stores as it was nearly missing all the time. Like the initial Covid craze, but permanent, lol

    • LOL: songbird
  995. @songbird
    @Mr. Hack


    It appears that it’s actually you who forgot how the “light in the sky” project actually ended up, with funds from the joint coffers siphoned off and used to fund a new suite of cosmonaut houses in Moscow.
     
    Huh? That was a big part of the very design of the program. Subsidy by the US to keep the Russian space program going, and the US could easily afford it, compared to sending billions to Ukraine now.

    It helped ease some of the political resistance in Russia due to a lot of people in the space program having a military background and remembering and strongly resenting what the US did in Afghanistan. "Depreciation of the assets of a strategic competitor" in the euphemism that is employed on this forum. Along with that equipment "depreciated", thousands of Russians were killed and maimed. Thousands of mothers lost their sons.

    I have read Scott Kelly's book. He said that his apartment in Baikonur was once vandalized by such people.

    And Russia was also poor, at the time. Kelly went on a Russian navy ship, and they didn't have toilet paper, but what Kelly called 'a communal _ss brush.'

    Replies: @sudden death, @AnonfromTN

    they didn’t have toilet paper

    For whatever reason toilet paper was virtually absent in the USSR. People used to wipe their behinds with newspapers. There was even a joke about that:
    – Did you subscribe to “Pravda”? (“Pravda” was the main communist party newspaper)
    – I don’t need to. I have radio.
    – So, now you wipe your ass with an antenna?

    Toilet paper is available in abundance in the RF now. During covid scare the tables were turned: toilet paper disappeared throughout the US and much of Europe, but was easily available in the RF.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @AnonfromTN

    Don't know if there is a book that attempts to collect Cold War era jokes (not just in USSR, but Warsaw Pact, and maybe, US, and NATO) but, if not, there ought to be.

    , @Philip Owen
    @AnonfromTN

    All paper products are scarce again from printing paper to thermal till rolls and tissues. Paper is not sanctioned but transport, insurance and payment are now limiting issues and Russia imported heavily. The Tax Service is accepting electronic evidence for small expenditures rather than till rolls. Some local production was ramping up by last October.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

  996. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts

    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.

    The BB who migrated to the British Isles were not the original BB folks who lived on both sides of the Gibraltar. Several generations have passed between their conquest of Iberian peninsula and their conquest of British Isles. However, even after several generations, this is how a BB woman buried in Scotland typical BB burial, looked like:

    https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/who-were-lost-beaker-people-scotland-2865161

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.

    I believe this where all these "Black Irish" types originated from. Although diluted, the original BB ancestry still sometimes shows off.

    https://cfj.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/George-Clooney-scaled.jpg

    In Central Europe, BB ancestry got even more diluted during Unetice Culture period, when the prot Latino - Celtic population was formed. Unetice and Northern Bronze Age had BB, Corded Ware and Megalithic Culture survivors living in peace and forming a single culture, speaking PIE and having a common religion.

    When the Celts migrated to British Isles, they have added some more R1b haplogroups, but they might have also carried some R1a and I2. At least their Scandinavian / proto-Germanic neighbors to the North carried this mix prior to the addition of the haplogroup N which came with the Finno-Ugric Akozino-Malar warriors during the Iron Age.

    And yes the Bashkir are most probably descended from Yamnaya through the Afanasievo Culture, and the Sarmatians. Hence the R1b.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.

    The authors of that study repeat the same thing in the appendix about the genetic origins of the Bell Beaker complex (it seems to have been one of their big findings):

    Our result that the majority of Beaker-associated skeletons from Iberia are genetically continuous with previous Iberian populations—with no evidence for a strong contribution of Iberian Beaker-associated populations to non-Iberian Beaker-associated ones—is an important fact to take into account in future discussions of the origin and spread of the
    Beaker Complex.

    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number? Iirc the guy writing in Eupedia about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there. R1b1b (R-V88) is mentioned as being already in Iberia in Neolithic times, he links them with the early beakers.

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.

    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad’s side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn’t know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it’s obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number?
     
    Yes BB people probably migrated as relatively small war bands. At the Tollense River, they were probably around a couple hundred at most, while their servants' suite numbered several hundred, including women and children.

    about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there.
     
    The Celtic migrations in the 7th - 8th century bp. Celts were heavily admixed with the CWC and emerged from the central European Unetice melting pot after its dislocation.


    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence.
     
    Not only Arabic influence, which in Morocco itself has been lower than in the other parts of North Africa, but influence of Southern Berber that were admixed with Sub-Saharan Africans since times immemorial.

    In fact, being a very ancient (Natufian-derived) population, the Berber got admixed a long time ago with the ancient European Mediterranean populations in the North and with Sub-Saharan Africans in the South. But only after the fall of the Roman Empire and even as late as after the fall of the Califates (the Umayyad and the Fatimid) have the Southern Berber tribes (the Moor) start their conquest of the Northern part of the Maghreb and the annexation of the Al Andalous.

    That is why, from the genetic pov, the influence of the Arabs in the Maghreb is somewhat overrated. People of Arab descent represent around 30 % in Morocco despite being for centuries the urban elite. In the post-conquest period they hardly numbered more than 10% perhaps 20% in newly built Islamic urban centers such as Fez. I am pretty certain that Moroccan Jews were probably as numerous as Arabs were in the first centuries after the Islamic conquest.

    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad’s side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn’t know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it’s obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars

    My maternal grandfather also had some Tatar ancestry, from the Tatars who entered Tsar's service in the 15th century onwards.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8
    , @Yahya
    @Coconuts


    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.
     
    Berbers don’t look substantially different from Maghrebi Arabs. You can see in the photo below of a cross-section of Berbers:

    https://i.ibb.co/9tSzySx/E53-BE83-D-E182-4665-B72-A-19-A4-C446-CABE.jpg

    Most of them look Maghrebi; some are Euro-shifted and others Afro-shifted. The phenotypic profile is pretty much the same as Maghrebi Arabs. Among some northern Berber groups the euro-shifted ones may be more common; among southern groups the Afro-shifted are pre-dominant. But most Berbers look MENA as you’d expect.

    I agree with Ivashka that Arab admixture among “Arabs” in North Africa is minimal. This is pretty obvious to me since I frequently traverse between Saudi Arabia and Egypt; and have been to most Arab countries as a tourist. The phenotypic difference between Arabians and the rest is quite evident. Not a wide gap by any means; they still belong to the same broad racial grouping; but noticeable enough. People make the mistake of assuming the Arab conquest changed phenotypes significantly - they didn’t. You’d have an easier time distinguishing Maghrebi Arabs from Saudis than from Berbers

  997. This thread is over a thousand comments. High time for a new one. As some comments are excessively verbose, I’d ask everyone to use “more” after the tenth line in the future.

    • Replies: @A123
    @AnonfromTN


    This thread is over a thousand comments. High time for a new one.
     
    Please make that comment here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5823602

    It is much more likely to be seen and prioritized by Mr. Unz.

    PEACE 😇
  998. @A123
    @QCIC


    The IDEAS which make all of the terrible ideological developments possible still hold sway. These ideas must be challenged and replaced before real change is likely to occur with the various institutions.
     
    In Red States -- Judeo-Christian ideas are winning.
    In 卐lue States -- SJW, anti-Christian, neo-Nazis are ahead.

    De-Nazification is essential. The most humane option is a Constitution 2.0 that does not allow dole critters to vote.

    The specifics must be negotiated. However, the simple truth is that useless eaters must be non-citizens.

    PEACE 😇

    Replies: @Sher Singh

  999. @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    they didn’t have toilet paper
     
    For whatever reason toilet paper was virtually absent in the USSR. People used to wipe their behinds with newspapers. There was even a joke about that:
    - Did you subscribe to “Pravda”? (“Pravda” was the main communist party newspaper)
    - I don’t need to. I have radio.
    - So, now you wipe your ass with an antenna?

    Toilet paper is available in abundance in the RF now. During covid scare the tables were turned: toilet paper disappeared throughout the US and much of Europe, but was easily available in the RF.

    Replies: @songbird, @Philip Owen

    Don’t know if there is a book that attempts to collect Cold War era jokes (not just in USSR, but Warsaw Pact, and maybe, US, and NATO) but, if not, there ought to be.

  1000. @sudden death
    @German_reader


    They can bomb as much as they want, if Iran is determined to get nukes, they won’t be able to stop it through military means, in fact it will only increase Iranian determination.
     
    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.

    The issue should have been solved politically through the nuclear agreement.
     
    Agree, but if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    If they really have correct targets, related to nuclear program, and means to get them blown up, then probably damage to nuclear program can be substantial enough and only determination may not fix it that quickly.

    Centrifuge trains capable of separating U235 from U238 based on density are quite sensitive. They cannot be made “100% totally immune” to bombing and replacement is a long lead time effort. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

    Also, Mossad is pretty good at targeting and sabotage, so there are other options if bombing is made inconvenient. Can you say “STUXNET 2024”?

    if Iran was really deliberately violating it, then diplomacy affair was useless to continue too.

    You could make your point stronger by removing the word “if”. I presented that exact fact set. I’ll even share the link again.

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14910/iran-nuclear-deal-violations

    Absolutely everyone paying attention grasps that Khamenei abrogated JCPOA while Obama was still President. Blaming Trump for something he did not do is Leftoid Sheeple bleating. I cannot fathom why GR believes his precious Merkel could obtain compliance from deal breaking Iran.

    I wish I was shocked at this level of willing self deception, but… Well… The human race. (shakes head mournfully)

    PEACE 😇

  1001. @songbird
    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments.

    Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn't shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.

    Replies: @S

    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments….Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.

    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment.

    The train’s inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    There are other ways, of course, and if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. 🙂

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What’s really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they’ve dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    [MORE]

    A soldier still in his chain mail…

    Three arrows to the head. Definite overkill!

    The Grenskorset battlefield monument erected in memory of the fallen Gotlanders on the 20th anniversary of the Dane Invasion in 1381.

    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments….Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.

    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment. The train’s inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    Of course, if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. 🙂

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What’s really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they’ve dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    • Replies: @songbird
    @S

    Don't know if I imagined it (perhaps I did?), but I thought I heard this story about a horse being hurt at a battlefield, and it cropping all the grass that was within reach of its neck, before floods caused a stream to rise and wash it and the dead and dying away.

    I want to say that was at Tollense, but surely they could not have reconstructed something like that? And I must be combining it with Pompeii or something? Anyway, I once had the idea that would make a great scene for a Valkyrie taking the soul of a warrior, to go to some new battle. (And I think I had an idea for a few souls taken in different ways, after defeat)

    Cool battlefield relics, BTW. When I see skeletons like this in Ireland, I just want to extract their DNA and see if I am related to them. Suppose that makes me a weirdo. Kind of like a modern-day Patton.

    Replies: @S

  1002. @songbird
    @Coconuts


    A couple of the more mainstream political science academics I follow predict there will be a backlash of some kind later in the decade and in the 2030s.
     
    A while back, I listened to an old tape of Rod Serling talking to college kids in the '60s, and he kept talking about a 'white lash.' (he seemed a real unpleasant character, politically speaking). But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.

    Awareness of wokeness should have filtered down to the ‘low information’ voter part of the population by then as well.
     
    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.

    the Prevent program people labelling his books as well as Michael Portillo’s ‘Great Railway Journeys’ series far-right and signals of potential radicalisation
     
    I find it really bizarre that they put The Great Escape on the list, since it shows the Gestapo machine-gunning British POWs. I wonder if it is because Steve McQueen, who had Scot ancestry, was very Nordic-looking, and blond heroes are kind of semi-verboten, especially very daring ones, that in some way personified some masculine ideal.

    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare - for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.

    I also wonder if it was an Indian who found Four Feathers offensive. Did not think the book was widely read today, and the most recent movie seemed fairly woke, IIRC, with its promotion of a black African. Maybe, they googled "novels of the empire period", or something.

    Replies: @songbird, @Coconuts

    But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.

    I do doubt that it will put emphasis on the racial aspect, those political scientists don’t mention it specifically as far as I can remember and some of the politicians who might be positioning themselves to be involved in it aren’t white (Badenoch, Braverman). I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.

    [MORE]

    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.

    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster. And no imperial past.

    Keith Woods just put out a strong YouTube video with arguments against immigration, I feel like he is pointing the way forward with some of them. If any of them get picked up more widely it will be interesting.

    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare – for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.

    I was discussing this with a relative, I thought they would be people from the far-left, not sure about ethnicity but likely a mixture? I doubt they have children, if they are older rather than young activists I wouldn’t be surprised if they are LGBTQ.

    I suspect it may have been influenced by some of these groups like Hope not Hate who monitor nationalist and D/R forums and social media. I can’t imagine a book like the Four Feathers has many readers nowadays, there were memes based on the film going around a few years ago though. Other choices, like the Great Escape, Railway Journeys or Tinker, Tailor… seem bizarre or paranoid, like targeting things that middle-aged mildly Conservative people might like.

    Tinker, Tailor… is obviously critical of the British establishment. Thomas Carlyle is the only writer there who seems close to being far-right and apart from Academic Agent and people he has influenced I don’t know how widely read he is now either.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Coconuts


    I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.
     
    Wokeness might potentially be an easy sacrificial lamb, but I am not so sure about the rest of it. Don't even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don't think that signaling PoC can improve that. Twitter has made me really skeptical of the ability of diaspora non-Euros to align with the racial interests of the natives. There might be a few, but even most of these seem to occasionally signal their resentments, or else say strange things that an ethnic Euro nationalist would not say.

    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster.

     

    What is happening in Ireland is truly incredible. IMO, something totally unique in global history. Normally, it seems like the migrants arrived and spent decades in the major urban centers, and maybe there was an idea that would contain them, or even reduce them. But it Ireland that process was greatly shortened, it wasn't at all long after that the first non-Euros entered Dublin that they started putting them everywhere, in the tiniest villages all across Ireland. Seems every village I have ever heard of. Absolutely nobody rational can delude themselves about it.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based. But they should be trying to encourage Irish nationalists to record it, IMO, to get more material.

    If the woke movement is to insert blacks, etc. into the past and in mythology, then we should be trying to record all their bad behavior in the present.

    Tinker, Tailor… is obviously critical of the British establishment.
     
    Some say it is about how it portrays the relationship with America, though I myself doubt it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LondonBob

  1003. @songbird
    @German_reader


    Question is if this will cause Saudi-Arabia
     
    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. Nuclear war seems to really promote the ascetism that the old zealots favored. Though I guess, if they were ever hit in retribution, they'd get it pretty bad because of the lack of rain, and duststorms.

    Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD - Iraq couldn't), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan - not that that is necessarily impossible. But I presume Pakistan doesn't have the H-bomb. Not that a Saudi with atom-bombs would be great.

    China appears to be ramping up its nuclear forces, to a large degree, which may have interesting ramifications on the sub-Continent. (right now, India seems to have a relatively weak nuclear deterrent, possibly all atom-bombs.) What shall happen if India upgrades too? Will Pakistan? And then what?

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    Prospect of atomic-Wahhabism is fairly frightening. … Fortunately,IMO, only way Saudi could get them is by buying them (HBD – Iraq couldn’t), or some strategic cooperation with Pakistan – not that that is necessarily impossible.

    The current Saudi leadership realizes the mistake made several rulers ago and is trying to quash and exclude the Wahhabi fringe. However, backsliding is a legitimate concern.

    The best way to keep Saudi out of the club is to keep Iran out. If Iran joins, the Saudis must also obtain them no matter the cost.

    I strongly suspect that Turkey and Iran will get the bomb, within the next 20-30 years. Not looking forward to Ottoman 2.0. But, maybe, Iran would be a check on that?

    If Turkey goes, so must Greece. The dynamic is not dissimilar to Iran/Saudi.

    To make the cost more manageable it would likely be a consortium of other countries with Greece. Cyprus would want to join, though as a very junior partner. Larger potential team members include Italy and the Visegrád 4 nations.

    Both the UK and Israel would be potential technical advisors to accelerate development. The former is more likely as payback for Brussels shenanigans over Brexit. Israel might participate as part of a hydrocarbon energy play including EastMed, but that is not as emotionally compelling.

    PEACE 😇

  1004. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.
     
    The authors of that study repeat the same thing in the appendix about the genetic origins of the Bell Beaker complex (it seems to have been one of their big findings):

    Our result that the majority of Beaker-associated skeletons from Iberia are genetically continuous with previous Iberian populations—with no evidence for a strong contribution of Iberian Beaker-associated populations to non-Iberian Beaker-associated ones—is an important fact to take into account in future discussions of the origin and spread of the
    Beaker Complex.
     
    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number? Iirc the guy writing in Eupedia about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there. R1b1b (R-V88) is mentioned as being already in Iberia in Neolithic times, he links them with the early beakers.

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.
     
    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad's side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn't know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it's obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya

    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number?

    Yes BB people probably migrated as relatively small war bands. At the Tollense River, they were probably around a couple hundred at most, while their servants’ suite numbered several hundred, including women and children.

    about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there.

    The Celtic migrations in the 7th – 8th century bp. Celts were heavily admixed with the CWC and emerged from the central European Unetice melting pot after its dislocation.

    [MORE]

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence.

    Not only Arabic influence, which in Morocco itself has been lower than in the other parts of North Africa, but influence of Southern Berber that were admixed with Sub-Saharan Africans since times immemorial.

    In fact, being a very ancient (Natufian-derived) population, the Berber got admixed a long time ago with the ancient European Mediterranean populations in the North and with Sub-Saharan Africans in the South. But only after the fall of the Roman Empire and even as late as after the fall of the Califates (the Umayyad and the Fatimid) have the Southern Berber tribes (the Moor) start their conquest of the Northern part of the Maghreb and the annexation of the Al Andalous.

    That is why, from the genetic pov, the influence of the Arabs in the Maghreb is somewhat overrated. People of Arab descent represent around 30 % in Morocco despite being for centuries the urban elite. In the post-conquest period they hardly numbered more than 10% perhaps 20% in newly built Islamic urban centers such as Fez. I am pretty certain that Moroccan Jews were probably as numerous as Arabs were in the first centuries after the Islamic conquest.

    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad’s side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn’t know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it’s obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars

    My maternal grandfather also had some Tatar ancestry, from the Tatars who entered Tsar’s service in the 15th century onwards.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8

  1005. @AnonfromTN
    This thread is over a thousand comments. High time for a new one. As some comments are excessively verbose, I’d ask everyone to use “more” after the tenth line in the future.

    Replies: @A123

    This thread is over a thousand comments. High time for a new one.

    Please make that comment here:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/bugs-suggestions-2/?showcomments#comment-5823602

    It is much more likely to be seen and prioritized by Mr. Unz.

    PEACE 😇

  1006. @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool


    George’s father is of half Irish and one quarter German ancestry, with his other quarter being a mix of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish/Northern Irish ancestry. George’s mother has English ancestry, along with more distant Scottish, Welsh, and remote French Huguenot and Dutch, roots.
     
    https://ethnicelebs.com/george-clooney

    Replies: @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    A young George Clooney looked even darker (his grey hair actually makes him look lighter than he originally is, I know a Celt who has platinum grey hair that makes her look almost like a platinum blonde, while her original hair was almost black).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    In this Cro-Magnon—Basque connection, it is worth noting that there existed as late as the sixth century, in the northern extremity of the island of Great Britain and beyond the Celtic sphere, a race of "savage" aborigines,
     
    https://electricscotland.com/webclans/cairney/14.htm

    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.

    Also I understand better why he married Amal Alamuddin...

    🙂

    Replies: @LatW

    , @songbird
    @LatW

    And @ Ivashka the fool

    I suppose Colin Farrell is something on the dark side (though probably not so dark as Clooney.)

    Found this website where it claims he took a DNA test and it said "98.7% Irish, and 1.3% central European." Honestly, sounds super-sketchy. Maybe, " 98.7% British and Irish." Often DNA companies don't seem to try to break it out, and I don't think I would trust those that do (don't think they have the datasets necessary), though undeniably people with Germanic blood tend to be much more tannable.

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/colin-farrell-dna-test-177961

    In my estimation, most Irish people with black or dark brown hair would not be able to hack it as roofers in the summer at this latitude. Know someone who tried, (exactly the standard black Irish phenotype, as I conceive of it - that is, dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin) he lasted a day, and probably should have had an IV drip at the end of it.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Greasy William
    @LatW

    subcanthal tilt. Not a Chad. Only handsome by 1990's standards

    Replies: @LatW

  1007. Before Hersh, Russia was certain that Liz Truss had ordered the pipeline bombed.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Philip Owen

    The first to point fingers at US was Radek Sikorsky, a personal friend of Boris Johnson and a former MI6 agent. When I heard about the NS blowing, I thought to myself - Ataman Krasnov was right: "опять Англичанка гадит". Also in RusFed, the sarcastic reaction was : "при бабушке такого беспредела не было".

  1008. The first Challengers have reached Poland. 14 can’t do much and they are not the best for blitzkrieg. However, they are heavily armoured and have the longest verified tank on tank kill range ever. Good for breaking through fortified areas. Russian ATGMs and T72 tank fire at close range doesn’t disturb them. Give them some T64s for support and there will be force amplification.

  1009. @LatW
    @songbird

    A young George Clooney looked even darker (his grey hair actually makes him look lighter than he originally is, I know a Celt who has platinum grey hair that makes her look almost like a platinum blonde, while her original hair was almost black).

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/fa/ae/0bfaae9046ac8cfbcaa778db2ba4ff6f.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @Greasy William

    In this Cro-Magnon—Basque connection, it is worth noting that there existed as late as the sixth century, in the northern extremity of the island of Great Britain and beyond the Celtic sphere, a race of “savage” aborigines,

    https://electricscotland.com/webclans/cairney/14.htm

    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.

    Also I understand better why he married Amal Alamuddin…

    🙂

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.
     
    His eyes look almost a little Georgian.

    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).

    By the way, speaking of Neolithic structures, apparently the Bell Beaker people inhabited Newgrange at one point. I've been to Newgrange and I've seen the passage that gets illuminated by the rays of the Sun, but there is another cult place, right next to the main structure, a timber circle that was apparently built later than the Newgrange mound itself.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1010. @Philip Owen
    Before Hersh, Russia was certain that Liz Truss had ordered the pipeline bombed.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    The first to point fingers at US was Radek Sikorsky, a personal friend of Boris Johnson and a former MI6 agent. When I heard about the NS blowing, I thought to myself – Ataman Krasnov was right: “опять Англичанка гадит”. Also in RusFed, the sarcastic reaction was : “при бабушке такого беспредела не было”.

  1011. @AnonfromTN
    @songbird


    they didn’t have toilet paper
     
    For whatever reason toilet paper was virtually absent in the USSR. People used to wipe their behinds with newspapers. There was even a joke about that:
    - Did you subscribe to “Pravda”? (“Pravda” was the main communist party newspaper)
    - I don’t need to. I have radio.
    - So, now you wipe your ass with an antenna?

    Toilet paper is available in abundance in the RF now. During covid scare the tables were turned: toilet paper disappeared throughout the US and much of Europe, but was easily available in the RF.

    Replies: @songbird, @Philip Owen

    All paper products are scarce again from printing paper to thermal till rolls and tissues. Paper is not sanctioned but transport, insurance and payment are now limiting issues and Russia imported heavily. The Tax Service is accepting electronic evidence for small expenditures rather than till rolls. Some local production was ramping up by last October.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @Philip Owen


    All paper products are scarce again from printing paper to thermal till rolls and tissues.
     
    That directly contradicts what I hear from people actually living in Russia. In particular, there is no problem with buying bathroom tissue neither in Moscow nor in the provinces.

    In the old days KGB had a special division tasked with misinforming and deceiving hostile countries. Now RF can save a lot of money: hostile countries actively misinform and deceive themselves. Putin would approve wholeheartedly.
  1012. @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool


    George’s father is of half Irish and one quarter German ancestry, with his other quarter being a mix of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish/Northern Irish ancestry. George’s mother has English ancestry, along with more distant Scottish, Welsh, and remote French Huguenot and Dutch, roots.
     
    https://ethnicelebs.com/george-clooney

    Replies: @LatW, @Ivashka the fool

    In a word, a typical Bell-Beaker. I was right in choosing his picture as an illustration of what they might have been.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    This writes about a mass migration from Iberia into Africa thousands of years ago. Is it wrong?

    https://nemets.substack.com/p/the-sons-of-chad

    Many men among both the Laal, the Hausa, and other Chadic speaking peoples carry the Y chromosomal haplogroup R1b-V88. It puzzled scientists for a number of years as R1b lineages are most common in Europe, and there was no obvious connection between Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The puzzlement increased with the discovery of bodies with specifically R1b-V88 lineages in 8th millennium BC Ukraine and 9th or 10th millennium BC Serbia. In the last 10,000 years, the R1b-V88 lineage has largely died out in Europe outside of Sardinia, being replaced by other lineages such as I, R1a, and R1b lineages without the V88 mutation. The R1b-V88 lineage most common within Africa shows a “star shaped phylogeny” that dates to the early 4th millennium BC - that is, the men carrying it at the time were the direct forefathers of many, likely as the result of violent conquests and polygyny. While entire story of Hausa and Laal origins will likely never be known, we do know enough about prehistory to see at least the outlines of the journey of their forefathers....

    Replies: @Coconuts

  1013. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    In this Cro-Magnon—Basque connection, it is worth noting that there existed as late as the sixth century, in the northern extremity of the island of Great Britain and beyond the Celtic sphere, a race of "savage" aborigines,
     
    https://electricscotland.com/webclans/cairney/14.htm

    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.

    Also I understand better why he married Amal Alamuddin...

    🙂

    Replies: @LatW

    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.

    His eyes look almost a little Georgian.

    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).

    By the way, speaking of Neolithic structures, apparently the Bell Beaker people inhabited Newgrange at one point. I’ve been to Newgrange and I’ve seen the passage that gets illuminated by the rays of the Sun, but there is another cult place, right next to the main structure, a timber circle that was apparently built later than the Newgrange mound itself.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    I also know someone who supposedly only has known French, Scots Irish, Scottish and Brit ancestry and who would really looks Mediterranean.

    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn't been lost.

    A very nice person this acquaintance of mine.



    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place. I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations' elite. And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn't know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did. It became a feature in most of Central Europe during Unetice Culture period. There are dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of these ring (or rondel) enclosure sanctuaries in Germany, Austria and Poland. The one which is seen as kind of reference type is the Poemmelte circle enclosure of relatively recent discovery. They sometimes also dug a ditch around the circle.

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Poemmelte-Zackmuende-Salzlandkreis-Overall-plan-of-the-rondel-and-the-related-features_fig2_291349779

    Supposedly the Nebra Disk comes from somewhere in the vicinity.

    Of note, human sacrifice seems to having been practiced at Poemmelte with women and children being the victims. As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.

    Once fully established, the Unetice Culture développed into the first complex Central European society.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333180404_PRINCES_ARMIES_SANCTUARIES_THE_EMERGENCE_OF_COMPLEX_AUTHORITY_IN_THE_CENTRAL_GERMAN_UNETICE_CULTURE#pf10

    (They write "Central German", but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.)

    Replies: @LatW

  1014. Excellent article about potential endgames of the war: https://philippelemoine.substack.com/p/how-could-the-war-in-ukraine-end

    One interesting point he makes is that if the West goes into recession, Russia could conceivably dictate armistice terms to Ukraine. He then goes on to say that it doesn’t look like there will be a recession this year, citing the IMF.

    But the IMF and all the economics experts are wrong. There will be a recession this year. It will begin in May. I don’t expect it to become severe until 2024 but at that point you do have to wonder if the US is going to be willing to continue to spend 200 billion a year on a stalemate, especially in an election year where Trump is going to be hammering Biden for caring more about Ukraine than America.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Greasy William

    Most economic indicators are worse than they were in the GFC already, I remember discussing the losses reported in the US housing market in early 2007 yet the crisis didn't manifest until 2008, we are in that period now.

    https://mishtalk.com/economics/philly-fed-manufacturing-disaster-excluding-covid-19-worst-since-great-recession

    Replies: @Greasy William

  1015. @LatW
    @songbird

    A young George Clooney looked even darker (his grey hair actually makes him look lighter than he originally is, I know a Celt who has platinum grey hair that makes her look almost like a platinum blonde, while her original hair was almost black).

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/fa/ae/0bfaae9046ac8cfbcaa778db2ba4ff6f.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @Greasy William

    And @ Ivashka the fool

    I suppose Colin Farrell is something on the dark side (though probably not so dark as Clooney.)

    Found this website where it claims he took a DNA test and it said “98.7% Irish, and 1.3% central European.” Honestly, sounds super-sketchy. Maybe, ” 98.7% British and Irish.” Often DNA companies don’t seem to try to break it out, and I don’t think I would trust those that do (don’t think they have the datasets necessary), though undeniably people with Germanic blood tend to be much more tannable.

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/colin-farrell-dna-test-177961

    In my estimation, most Irish people with black or dark brown hair would not be able to hack it as roofers in the summer at this latitude. Know someone who tried, (exactly the standard black Irish phenotype, as I conceive of it – that is, dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin) he lasted a day, and probably should have had an IV drip at the end of it.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @songbird

    Tend to agree, I always assumed Clooney was partly Caucasian or something like that. I haven't come across an Irishman as dark as he is. Colin Farrell is the darkest I have seen and he seems rare for the Irish in general. That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    @LatW


    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).
     
    I don't know if it always comes up on dna tests like ancestry but there was a big study of Anglo-Saxon genetics that found most people in England have more French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

  1016. @LatW
    @songbird

    A young George Clooney looked even darker (his grey hair actually makes him look lighter than he originally is, I know a Celt who has platinum grey hair that makes her look almost like a platinum blonde, while her original hair was almost black).

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/fa/ae/0bfaae9046ac8cfbcaa778db2ba4ff6f.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird, @Greasy William

    subcanthal tilt. Not a Chad. Only handsome by 1990’s standards

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Greasy William

    He has a nice personality. :) Anyway, it's not about handsomeness or being a "chad" but the coloring. Interestingly, he had light hair as a child. I don't get how it went that dark.


    subcanthal tilt
     
    That's why I said he almost looked Georgian, because some Caucasians seem to have it.
  1017. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    In a word, a typical Bell-Beaker. I was right in choosing his picture as an illustration of what they might have been.



    https://i0.wp.com/archaeology.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/163424.jpg

    Replies: @AP

    This writes about a mass migration from Iberia into Africa thousands of years ago. Is it wrong?

    https://nemets.substack.com/p/the-sons-of-chad

    Many men among both the Laal, the Hausa, and other Chadic speaking peoples carry the Y chromosomal haplogroup R1b-V88. It puzzled scientists for a number of years as R1b lineages are most common in Europe, and there was no obvious connection between Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The puzzlement increased with the discovery of bodies with specifically R1b-V88 lineages in 8th millennium BC Ukraine and 9th or 10th millennium BC Serbia. In the last 10,000 years, the R1b-V88 lineage has largely died out in Europe outside of Sardinia, being replaced by other lineages such as I, R1a, and R1b lineages without the V88 mutation. The R1b-V88 lineage most common within Africa shows a “star shaped phylogeny” that dates to the early 4th millennium BC – that is, the men carrying it at the time were the direct forefathers of many, likely as the result of violent conquests and polygyny. While entire story of Hausa and Laal origins will likely never be known, we do know enough about prehistory to see at least the outlines of the journey of their forefathers….

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AP

    The wikipedia page on R1b and its history has the same info about R1b-V88. It tells you something about the history of the different variant Haplogroups:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    I can't independently judge how good it is though.

  1018. @Coconuts
    @songbird


    But I suppose it must have materialized in some ways. An old acquaintance, who worked at Ma Bell (then a telephone monolopoly) told me that people were really mad about all the affirmative action stuff and were anonymously putting up posters of monkeys, etc. But it still seems as though the state managed to ram its agenda forward, with bayonets.
     
    I do doubt that it will put emphasis on the racial aspect, those political scientists don't mention it specifically as far as I can remember and some of the politicians who might be positioning themselves to be involved in it aren't white (Badenoch, Braverman). I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.


    there is some poll of Sinn Fein voters in Ireland, and the majority are against immigration.
     
    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster. And no imperial past.

    Keith Woods just put out a strong YouTube video with arguments against immigration, I feel like he is pointing the way forward with some of them. If any of them get picked up more widely it will be interesting.


    Have wondered a lot about the ethnic characterization of the people who created the list. Is there really a traditional British person (i.e. non-gay, married, with children) who would ban Shakespeare – for such lists seem preliminary to such banning.
     
    I was discussing this with a relative, I thought they would be people from the far-left, not sure about ethnicity but likely a mixture? I doubt they have children, if they are older rather than young activists I wouldn't be surprised if they are LGBTQ.

    I suspect it may have been influenced by some of these groups like Hope not Hate who monitor nationalist and D/R forums and social media. I can't imagine a book like the Four Feathers has many readers nowadays, there were memes based on the film going around a few years ago though. Other choices, like the Great Escape, Railway Journeys or Tinker, Tailor... seem bizarre or paranoid, like targeting things that middle-aged mildly Conservative people might like.

    Tinker, Tailor... is obviously critical of the British establishment. Thomas Carlyle is the only writer there who seems close to being far-right and apart from Academic Agent and people he has influenced I don't know how widely read he is now either.

    Replies: @songbird

    I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.

    Wokeness might potentially be an easy sacrificial lamb, but I am not so sure about the rest of it. Don’t even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don’t think that signaling PoC can improve that. Twitter has made me really skeptical of the ability of diaspora non-Euros to align with the racial interests of the natives. There might be a few, but even most of these seem to occasionally signal their resentments, or else say strange things that an ethnic Euro nationalist would not say.

    [MORE]

    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster.

    What is happening in Ireland is truly incredible. IMO, something totally unique in global history. Normally, it seems like the migrants arrived and spent decades in the major urban centers, and maybe there was an idea that would contain them, or even reduce them. But it Ireland that process was greatly shortened, it wasn’t at all long after that the first non-Euros entered Dublin that they started putting them everywhere, in the tiniest villages all across Ireland. Seems every village I have ever heard of. Absolutely nobody rational can delude themselves about it.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based. But they should be trying to encourage Irish nationalists to record it, IMO, to get more material.

    If the woke movement is to insert blacks, etc. into the past and in mythology, then we should be trying to record all their bad behavior in the present.

    Tinker, Tailor… is obviously critical of the British establishment.

    Some say it is about how it portrays the relationship with America, though I myself doubt it.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Don’t even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don’t think that signaling PoC can improve that.
     
    Eric Kaufmann argues that the current Tory establishment is made up of people who have never had any interest in these 'cultural' questions, they are more like pure neo-liberals and focused on economics. 'Culture War' politics is seen as more low class, and it is a different sort of politics. But he was also saying that as the influence of US derived woke culture grows and demographic change becomes more obvious they won't be able to ignore it. It seems the polls show that there are all sorts of deep differences in opinion by age and economic/educational status developing under the surface, the current Tories keep its impact limited by ignoring it.



    In Britain these things are still mediated by things like class as well, because at the moment I think that is still as significant as the racial and ethnic divides (it means there are vertical divisions between races/ethnicities plus tangible horizontal ones in the white group). Awareness of racial and ethnic issues as such may be lower because it's a novelty in British Isles politics, until recently pretty much everyone was white and everyone seems to have assumed it would always be more or less like that.

    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based.
     
    Hopefully it will be documented and people will be able to follow the chain of decision making because at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena. It is happening at speed compared to other European countries, and the context is not obviously favourable (though I am thinking Scandinavian countries also brought in a lot of immigrants despite being small, homogenous and lacking any imperial past)

    Replies: @LondonBob, @German_reader

    , @LondonBob
    @songbird

    Tinker, Tailor was a PR attempt by an 'ex' spook to improve the image of the intelligence services after the absolute debacle regarding Philby and the Cambridge Five, which included Victor Rothschild.

    https://mailstar.net/perry.html

  1019. @S
    @songbird


    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments....Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.
     
    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment.

    The train's inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    There are other ways, of course, and if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. :-)

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What's really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they've dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    A soldier still in his chain mail...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Kettenhaube_1.jpg/800px-Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Kettenhaube_1.jpg

    Three arrows to the head. Definite overkill!

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Pfeilspitzen.jpg/800px-Fornsalen_-_Invasion_1361_-_Schädel_mit_Pfeilspitzen.jpg

    The Grenskorset battlefield monument erected in memory of the fallen Gotlanders on the 20th anniversary of the Dane Invasion in 1381.


    IMO, there is something really embarrassing about train crashes and derailments....Feel like 99% of it could be prevented with technology, but that it isn’t shows the various shortcomings of our civilization.
     
    Reminds me of this humorous video I saw which showed how simply cutting and removing a short length of iron rail track (ie four or five feet worth of both rails on either side) was not enough to deliberately cause a train derailment. The train's inertia would carry it over the trackless portion until it was right back on track as before. If I recall it took a substantial length of track (ie dozens of feet on both sides) being removed to ensure a derail.

    Of course, if the operator is drunk and speeding, that can cause a derail, too. :-)

    As an unrelated aside, I was reading today about the 1361 invasion of Gotland (Sweden) by a Danish king and his army of professional soldiers and mercenaries and the lopsided slaughter of thousands of the local yeoman farmers who rose up in resistance at the battles of Masterby and Visby.

    What's really intriguing is that usually armor and weapons were stripped/looted off the dead after the battle. However, these battles took place in July and due to decomposition quickly setting in they were unable to remove their armor, and opted instead to bury them in mass graves, armor and all, though sans weapons.

    Some photos of what they've dug up in archeological digs at the mass graves:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Grenskorset.JPG

    Replies: @songbird

    Don’t know if I imagined it (perhaps I did?), but I thought I heard this story about a horse being hurt at a battlefield, and it cropping all the grass that was within reach of its neck, before floods caused a stream to rise and wash it and the dead and dying away.

    I want to say that was at Tollense, but surely they could not have reconstructed something like that? And I must be combining it with Pompeii or something? Anyway, I once had the idea that would make a great scene for a Valkyrie taking the soul of a warrior, to go to some new battle. (And I think I had an idea for a few souls taken in different ways, after defeat)

    Cool battlefield relics, BTW. When I see skeletons like this in Ireland, I just want to extract their DNA and see if I am related to them. Suppose that makes me a weirdo. Kind of like a modern-day Patton.

    • Replies: @S
    @songbird


    Don’t know if I imagined it (perhaps I did?), but I thought I heard this story about a horse being hurt at a battlefield, and it cropping all the grass that was within reach of its neck, before floods caused a stream to rise and wash it and the dead and dying away.

    Abyway, I once had the idea that would make a great scene for a Valkyrie taking the soul of a warrior, to go to some new battle. (And I think I had an idea for a few souls taken in different ways, after defeat)
     
    Woah! That's some cool imagery you got there, Songbird! :-D
  1020. @German_reader
    @Yevardian

    Thanks, interesting. You seem to have wide-ranging interests, including older books...how is that "Modern Mexico" book from 1914?
    Haven't read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green's Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn't stand the author's persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?

    Regarding books, I've read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).

    Author is probably a standard shitlib in many ways, but still an extremely informative book which I would definitely recommend. Judgement about OUN/UPA is pretty damning (and the author isn't pro-Soviet in any way, he devotes quite a bit of attention to Soviet crimes, nor does he downplay the negative aspects of interwar Poland). Not going to pretend otherwise, the book hasn't increased my sympathy for West Ukrainians. Russians get a lot of deserved criticism for their chauvinism and Soviet nostalgia (all heroics, no crimes...), but (West) Ukrainian nationalism seems like a mirror image in many ways. The idea that people who worship figures like Bandera or Roman Shukhevych and get hysterical when inconvenient facts about their heroes are pointed out have an interest in "joining Europe" that goes beyond snatching gibs is a sick joke.

    Also read a book by Klaus von Dohnanyi (nonagenarian veteran SPD politician) Nationale Interessen, published in early 2022, at the worst possible time. Author has a lot of blind spots (of course no insight about how utterly malicious his party has become regarding immigration), but imo correct on key issues like the dangers for Europe of letting herself being dragged into a confrontation with Russia and China as pawns and potential battlefield, on the EU commission's misguided drive towards centralization and its negative influence on European economic competitiveness, on Germany's economic interests etc. Of course much of that analysis is moot now, given the probably final break in relations with Russia and the American sabotage of our pipelines.
    Interestingly enough, Orban has read the book and commented favourably on it.

    Replies: @AP, @Yevardian

    Haven’t read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green’s Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn’t stand the author’s persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?

    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically? I mostly read Green’s popular biography on Alexander on Badian’s recommendation, in the middle of a notorious review which trashed Robin-Lane Fox’s Alexander biography.
    Green’s book didn’t stand out or anything but I didn’t mind it, I certainly never got the impression he injected contemporary politics into his work or anything like that. Still not comparable to Tarn’s prose or Badian or Bosworth’s scholarship on Alexander, obviously.

    Anyway, I mentioned Badian before, but I’ll say again, his essays on antiquity are still the most enjoyable I’ve ever read. Since you read Thucydides relatively recently (first time?) I’d mention I finished Badian’s Collected Essays on the Pentekontaitia a few weeks ago, he really takes down the still overwhelmingly popular notion that Thucydides was ‘the measure of scientific objectivity in history’.
    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists, in that as he wrote about events within the living memory of thousands, it was impossible for him to outright lie about anything, although its demonstrated that Thucyides constantly drew a tendentious narrative through techniques like omission, implying although not actually stating events happening in certain order, artful arrangement of his book’s content, and so on.
    Badian has a few respectful criticisms of Ron Unz’s published work on the same period as well, incidentally.

    I don’t know how deep you’ve gone into Greco-Roman history, but ‘poor sources’ are really a genre defining feature. By the standards of the Hellenistic period at least, Eumenes’ life isn’t that scantily attested, in addition to Plutarch’s Eumenes, he also appears sporadically in Plutarch’s Demetrios/Alexander, as well as the authors Diodoros, Polyainos, Arrian and Curtius.

    Although Anson does include in his Eumenes book two full closing chapters discussing Greek versus Makedonian ethno-cultural identity, tangentially tying it Eumenes’ own navigation of this field. Sounds like filler but they were actually quite good parts of his book in their own right.

    Regarding books, I’ve read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).

    I might check it out, although honestly I’d prefer to first read something authoritative on Ukraine’s years post 1991 into at least the mid 2010’s, a deep look into its post-Soviet collapse, the infighting between its political clans and so on.

    I forgot to mention that ‘Modern Mexico’ book from 1914 before posting, so I can’t write much here. Yes, it was a very curious book, obviously written just before WWI, during the Mexican civil war, which at least until August 1914, was perhaps the number one item on the USA’s foreign policy agenda.
    There’s actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book’s conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at ‘the Mexican Mestizo race’ sprinkled throughout that I’m sure songbird and Beckow would love.

    [MORE]

    I don’t visit here that much these days. Maybe you’d be open to sending a private contact, as I’ll likely be visiting friends/family in Europe next year.

    I’ll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically?
     
    I don't remember much tbh (and stopped reading quite early), but iirc I found the style pretentious. Also confusing, like he assumed one already knows the major players in the diadochi struggles (which I didn't). I might have to look at it again some time.

    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists
     
    I'm sure there are subtle biases in Thucydides (how couldn't there be?), but tbh I find that comparison unconvincing...most journalists today are essentially just propagandists (and not very clever ones at that). You know exactly where they stand, what kind of narrative they want to sell you. Whereas I never got that sense when reading Thucydides...there's no condemnation of Athens or of Sparta, both sides come across as having had good reasons for their decisions, rooted in their security dilemmas, desire to retain their existing empire/alliance structures etc. Sure, one can read the text in a way that sees Athens as driven by hubris to ruin, but the lack of explicit judgement makes such an interpretation far from the only plausible one. And while I know Thucydides is often suspected of having somewhat anti-democratic sentiments (would hardly be surprising given his banishment), I couldn't really discern that either.
    But thanks for the recommendation of Badian's works, I think I'll have to eventually look at them.

    I don’t know how deep you’ve gone into Greco-Roman history, but ‘poor sources’ are really a genre defining feature.
     
    Sure, but for some eras you do at least have documentary sources like coins or inscriptions, or can use archaeology to some extent. If it's just a re-telling of a few literary sources, one can sometimes wonder what the point is.


    I’ll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.
     
    I can send you an email for contact via that medium, but tbh I don't think I really want to divulge my personal information (nothing to do with you, more of a general policy, all the more so given the kind of things I've written here over the years). I doubt you'd derive much enjoyment from a personal meeting with me anyway, there are better things to do on vacation.
    , @songbird
    @Yevardian


    There’s actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book’s conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at ‘the Mexican Mestizo race’ sprinkled throughout that I’m sure songbird and Beckow would love.
     
    There were a fair number of Americans in Northern Mexico, before Pancho Villa helped to destabilize the area. They were the big ranchers.

    Not saying it would have necessarily been a bad idea to try to consolidate the border along a shorter line, accept the Mestizos in the highlands, while keeping out the Mayans in the South, (hard to see a worse scenario than current) but I'm not sure that advocates for American expansion really understood patterns of growth. Population of Mexico increased to about 10x since 1895.

    Imagine a lot of advocates of colonies in Africa didn't really grasp the same phenomenon, until much later. IIRC, more babies were born in Nigeria last year, than in Europe. Of course, TFR is below replacement in Mexico now, and nobody really predicted that.
  1021. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    "And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles."

    Phoenicians, of course...

    Sammes claimed that the Phoenicians settled in southern Britain, while the German Cimbri colonised the north.
    It was, wrote Sammes, the Phoenicians who left the bigger mark: ‘Not only the name of Britain itself, but of most places therein of ancient denomination are purely derived from the Phoenician Tongue, and … the Language itself for the most part, as well as the Customs, Religions, Idols, Offices, Dignities of the Ancient Britains are all clearly Phoenician, as likewise their instruments of war.’ For Sammes, British words derived from Phoenician include the name of Cornwall and the word for beer, and survivals of Phoenician culture include the site of Stonehenge. What language does he think the Phoenicians spoke?

    https://aeon.co/essays/phoenicia-an-imaginary-friend-to-nations-in-need-of-ancestors

    [Not sure what has happened here with tagging.]

    Replies: @Beckow

    …And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles

    Not only in the British Isles. There is evidence that a lot of words originated – or were influenced – by a developed language vaguely related to the Dravidian family. This ancient substratum is present in our abstract terms.

    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.

    It is hard to prove and there is no physical evidence or writing. But it was possible and is reflected in the early Sumerian myths and in the deep substratum of the Phoenician language, its abstract and trading words. The idea is that Phoenicians were originally colonists-traders with sailing skills – with copper and bronze – who moved west from the Indian Ocean and were absorbed by the local Semitic people. Then they continued expanding along the Mediterranean shores.

    Physically these people would be darker, swarthier, shorter and less physically dominant. But they had something that allowed them to expand (even dominate): better technology, attractive verbal-myths culture, and more wealth (‘goodies’, coins…)…there must had been a lot of local ‘compradors’ who helped these outsiders, and of course, the local women would go for the shiny stuff…that could explain George Clooney…

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @Beckow


    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.
     
    Sounds pretty crackpot to me. Do you have any names for academics or papers on this theory?
    People have been probably attempted to link Sumerian to every major known macro-linguistic family in the world by now, but there hasn't been any luck. The only extinct language out of India that has any gotten tentative mainstream consideration for links to Dravidian is Elamite.

    Replies: @Beckow

  1022. @Greasy William
    @LatW

    subcanthal tilt. Not a Chad. Only handsome by 1990's standards

    Replies: @LatW

    He has a nice personality. 🙂 Anyway, it’s not about handsomeness or being a “chad” but the coloring. Interestingly, he had light hair as a child. I don’t get how it went that dark.

    subcanthal tilt

    That’s why I said he almost looked Georgian, because some Caucasians seem to have it.

  1023. @Greasy William
    Excellent article about potential endgames of the war: https://philippelemoine.substack.com/p/how-could-the-war-in-ukraine-end


    One interesting point he makes is that if the West goes into recession, Russia could conceivably dictate armistice terms to Ukraine. He then goes on to say that it doesn't look like there will be a recession this year, citing the IMF.

    But the IMF and all the economics experts are wrong. There will be a recession this year. It will begin in May. I don't expect it to become severe until 2024 but at that point you do have to wonder if the US is going to be willing to continue to spend 200 billion a year on a stalemate, especially in an election year where Trump is going to be hammering Biden for caring more about Ukraine than America.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    Most economic indicators are worse than they were in the GFC already, I remember discussing the losses reported in the US housing market in early 2007 yet the crisis didn’t manifest until 2008, we are in that period now.

    https://mishtalk.com/economics/philly-fed-manufacturing-disaster-excluding-covid-19-worst-since-great-recession

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LondonBob

    Mish has been predicting recession every few months since 2009. Although he also got some things right (2009 stock market recovery was for real, hyperinflation wasn't in the cards in the short term).

    Mish predicted a recession last year and now he is saying that we are currently in a recession. He was wrong in 2022 and he's wrong now. What is more likely is that the US goes into recession in May but it isn't diagnosed until early 2024. Mid 2024 is when I see a financial crisis in the United States there potentially being problems with Ukraine funding.

    I do agree that Mish is worth reading. Not so crazy about his commenters, they were a lot better in the post GFC days of 2009 and 2010.

    Replies: @LondonBob

  1024. @Beckow
    @Another Polish Perspective


    ...And there is a hypothesis in linguistics that some enigmatic archaic Afro-asiatic linguistic substrate might have been present in the British Isles
     
    Not only in the British Isles. There is evidence that a lot of words originated - or were influenced - by a developed language vaguely related to the Dravidian family. This ancient substratum is present in our abstract terms.

    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.

    It is hard to prove and there is no physical evidence or writing. But it was possible and is reflected in the early Sumerian myths and in the deep substratum of the Phoenician language, its abstract and trading words. The idea is that Phoenicians were originally colonists-traders with sailing skills - with copper and bronze - who moved west from the Indian Ocean and were absorbed by the local Semitic people. Then they continued expanding along the Mediterranean shores.

    Physically these people would be darker, swarthier, shorter and less physically dominant. But they had something that allowed them to expand (even dominate): better technology, attractive verbal-myths culture, and more wealth ('goodies', coins...)...there must had been a lot of local 'compradors' who helped these outsiders, and of course, the local women would go for the shiny stuff...that could explain George Clooney...

    Replies: @Yevardian

    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.

    Sounds pretty crackpot to me. Do you have any names for academics or papers on this theory?
    People have been probably attempted to link Sumerian to every major known macro-linguistic family in the world by now, but there hasn’t been any luck. The only extinct language out of India that has any gotten tentative mainstream consideration for links to Dravidian is Elamite.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    @Yevardian

    There is plenty of research, from India (obviously) and elsewhere, easy to find. I don't subscribe to it - it is unproven, I mentioned it as one of the possible explanations for the linguistic links and ancient myths.

    I forgot to mention Elam that has been linked to the ancient Dravidian languages. The abstract terms in Phoenician could be from the ancient substratum from a proto-Dravidian family. But there are other explanations. Sumerians are a mystery, a language 'isolate', but logically there can be no such thing. Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills. That leaves only a few logical explanations: from the south, east (Elam), north (Anatolia), west (Syria)...it is obvious that they didn't move from too far away, they were not Semites or IE. The idea that they came from the northern Indian Ocean shorelines is not far fetched...it would suggest a Dravidian connection, but the Sumerian language is not Dravidian, although it has some archaic links, but the grammars are different. The area is huge, there is no reason separate language families couldn't develop - and be in contact with each other exchanging term.

    One of the best ways to understand the past is to look at what resulted from it and logically derive how it could have happened. With Sumer we take what we know around 3k BC and look back how it could come to that... the Indian Ocean, the boats, trade in metals, etc.. it is all in the geography. They didn't come from Britain, Africa or out of space...maybe they came from Armenia :)...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

  1025. @Yevardian
    @Beckow


    The archaic proto-civilization existed around the Indian Ocean shores 4-7k years ago and used boats for long-distance trade (among the first). Indus Valley-Mohenjoro Daro, Sumer, Phoenicians were part of their expansion. There are intriguing links between the very ancient Dravidian words and later abstract terms in other languages. This linguistic level is often taken from other languages, see Latin, Arabic or English.
     
    Sounds pretty crackpot to me. Do you have any names for academics or papers on this theory?
    People have been probably attempted to link Sumerian to every major known macro-linguistic family in the world by now, but there hasn't been any luck. The only extinct language out of India that has any gotten tentative mainstream consideration for links to Dravidian is Elamite.

    Replies: @Beckow

    There is plenty of research, from India (obviously) and elsewhere, easy to find. I don’t subscribe to it – it is unproven, I mentioned it as one of the possible explanations for the linguistic links and ancient myths.

    I forgot to mention Elam that has been linked to the ancient Dravidian languages. The abstract terms in Phoenician could be from the ancient substratum from a proto-Dravidian family. But there are other explanations. Sumerians are a mystery, a language ‘isolate’, but logically there can be no such thing. Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills. That leaves only a few logical explanations: from the south, east (Elam), north (Anatolia), west (Syria)…it is obvious that they didn’t move from too far away, they were not Semites or IE. The idea that they came from the northern Indian Ocean shorelines is not far fetched…it would suggest a Dravidian connection, but the Sumerian language is not Dravidian, although it has some archaic links, but the grammars are different. The area is huge, there is no reason separate language families couldn’t develop – and be in contact with each other exchanging term.

    One of the best ways to understand the past is to look at what resulted from it and logically derive how it could have happened. With Sumer we take what we know around 3k BC and look back how it could come to that… the Indian Ocean, the boats, trade in metals, etc.. it is all in the geography. They didn’t come from Britain, Africa or out of space…maybe they came from Armenia :)…

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Beckow


    They didn’t come from Britain, Africa or out of space…
     
    You can't be absolutely sure they didn't come from space... This would at least explain their sudden emergence. And there must be some reason why Sumerians did disappear a lot of time ago, but parts of their mythology still live today disguised as Greco-Roman mythology.

    Plus, the UFO theme never dies.. For a reason, I suppose. The problem in seeing it as a part of the system of control is that no system of control demands a necessary element of aliens. In fact, "aliens" create a lot of problems as uncontrollable element of such a system.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.
     

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills.
     
    Never heard of that.

    Agree with the Elamite - Dravidian connection. And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Beckow

  1026. @songbird
    @LatW

    And @ Ivashka the fool

    I suppose Colin Farrell is something on the dark side (though probably not so dark as Clooney.)

    Found this website where it claims he took a DNA test and it said "98.7% Irish, and 1.3% central European." Honestly, sounds super-sketchy. Maybe, " 98.7% British and Irish." Often DNA companies don't seem to try to break it out, and I don't think I would trust those that do (don't think they have the datasets necessary), though undeniably people with Germanic blood tend to be much more tannable.

    https://www.irishpost.com/news/colin-farrell-dna-test-177961

    In my estimation, most Irish people with black or dark brown hair would not be able to hack it as roofers in the summer at this latitude. Know someone who tried, (exactly the standard black Irish phenotype, as I conceive of it - that is, dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin) he lasted a day, and probably should have had an IV drip at the end of it.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Tend to agree, I always assumed Clooney was partly Caucasian or something like that. I haven’t come across an Irishman as dark as he is. Colin Farrell is the darkest I have seen and he seems rare for the Irish in general. That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).

    I don’t know if it always comes up on dna tests like ancestry but there was a big study of Anglo-Saxon genetics that found most people in England have more French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.
     
    Yes the Welsh (and perhaps the Scottish Picts) were supposedly darker than other insular Celts. Interestingly, the Picts were matrilinear, while the Welsh happen to carry more Y haplogroup E than other insular Celts.

    French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.
     
    Brythonic people already migrated back and forth accross the channel centuries before the Norman conquest. I don't think it's easy to separate the insular ethnic groups and their continental counterparts on genetics' grounds. They're probably too similar.
    , @songbird
    @Coconuts


    That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.
     
    Many mention this idea. Don't feel I have the observations to judge it myself, but am curious how it would overlay with the geography of the mountains. My immediate instinct is to suppose that it might be Norman or English influence, in the lowlands.

    Curiously, Catherine Zeta Jones seems to be a fair mix ethnically, with Welsh, English, and Irish components. (And not sure about the deep history of the Welsh components)
    https://ethnicelebs.com/catherine-zeta-jones

    Perhaps, an alternative theory might be that it had something to do with fishing.
  1027. @LondonBob
    @Greasy William

    Most economic indicators are worse than they were in the GFC already, I remember discussing the losses reported in the US housing market in early 2007 yet the crisis didn't manifest until 2008, we are in that period now.

    https://mishtalk.com/economics/philly-fed-manufacturing-disaster-excluding-covid-19-worst-since-great-recession

    Replies: @Greasy William

    Mish has been predicting recession every few months since 2009. Although he also got some things right (2009 stock market recovery was for real, hyperinflation wasn’t in the cards in the short term).

    Mish predicted a recession last year and now he is saying that we are currently in a recession. He was wrong in 2022 and he’s wrong now. What is more likely is that the US goes into recession in May but it isn’t diagnosed until early 2024. Mid 2024 is when I see a financial crisis in the United States there potentially being problems with Ukraine funding.

    I do agree that Mish is worth reading. Not so crazy about his commenters, they were a lot better in the post GFC days of 2009 and 2010.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Greasy William

    I think the US has been in recession since late spring, been some odd statistics produced by the Biden regime, and inflation has distorted others, been mostly that most lagging of indicators, jobs, keeping the GDP figure up, but those have already been revised and will be further still.

    https://moneymovesmarkets.com/journal/2022/12/21/has-the-fed-been-misled-by-faulty-payrolls-data.html

    Replies: @Greasy William

  1028. @songbird
    @Coconuts


    I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.
     
    Wokeness might potentially be an easy sacrificial lamb, but I am not so sure about the rest of it. Don't even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don't think that signaling PoC can improve that. Twitter has made me really skeptical of the ability of diaspora non-Euros to align with the racial interests of the natives. There might be a few, but even most of these seem to occasionally signal their resentments, or else say strange things that an ethnic Euro nationalist would not say.

    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster.

     

    What is happening in Ireland is truly incredible. IMO, something totally unique in global history. Normally, it seems like the migrants arrived and spent decades in the major urban centers, and maybe there was an idea that would contain them, or even reduce them. But it Ireland that process was greatly shortened, it wasn't at all long after that the first non-Euros entered Dublin that they started putting them everywhere, in the tiniest villages all across Ireland. Seems every village I have ever heard of. Absolutely nobody rational can delude themselves about it.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based. But they should be trying to encourage Irish nationalists to record it, IMO, to get more material.

    If the woke movement is to insert blacks, etc. into the past and in mythology, then we should be trying to record all their bad behavior in the present.

    Tinker, Tailor… is obviously critical of the British establishment.
     
    Some say it is about how it portrays the relationship with America, though I myself doubt it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LondonBob

    Don’t even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don’t think that signaling PoC can improve that.

    Eric Kaufmann argues that the current Tory establishment is made up of people who have never had any interest in these ‘cultural’ questions, they are more like pure neo-liberals and focused on economics. ‘Culture War’ politics is seen as more low class, and it is a different sort of politics. But he was also saying that as the influence of US derived woke culture grows and demographic change becomes more obvious they won’t be able to ignore it. It seems the polls show that there are all sorts of deep differences in opinion by age and economic/educational status developing under the surface, the current Tories keep its impact limited by ignoring it.

    [MORE]

    In Britain these things are still mediated by things like class as well, because at the moment I think that is still as significant as the racial and ethnic divides (it means there are vertical divisions between races/ethnicities plus tangible horizontal ones in the white group). Awareness of racial and ethnic issues as such may be lower because it’s a novelty in British Isles politics, until recently pretty much everyone was white and everyone seems to have assumed it would always be more or less like that.

    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based.

    Hopefully it will be documented and people will be able to follow the chain of decision making because at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena. It is happening at speed compared to other European countries, and the context is not obviously favourable (though I am thinking Scandinavian countries also brought in a lot of immigrants despite being small, homogenous and lacking any imperial past)

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    @Coconuts

    There was a concerted effort by David Cameron, Osborne and Feldman to stop the Conservatives becoming a patriotic party hence the A List, the diverse candidates and the ex Lib Dems. Looks like they are heading for a historic wipe out accordingly, not sure if what comes next will be an improvement initially, but the Conservatives are unreformable and need removing.

    , @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.
     
    I'm not sure I understand that argument. From the recollections of my father who grew up in 1950s and 1960s Lancashire it sounds like there was a strong sense of British (or maybe rather English) nationhood back then. In his grammar school they did a lot of English medieval history, read Shakespeare ("this sceptred isle" and all that) etc., definitive sense of cultural and national continuity. Ok, may have been not typical (only a small percentage went to grammar schools after all), but still. And frankly, it was a sense of ethnic nationhood. None of that "happy multi-coloured imperial family" stuff that seems to be the emerging narrative among faux critics of wokeness. He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria "Niggeria". There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
    I know there's a line of argument which argues that Britain's sense of nationhood was always categorically different from most of continental Europe (völkisch Germany etc.), but I have trouble seeing it. Given that Britain was essentially monoethnic (apart from the divisions between the established British Isles nations) until quite recently, I'm not even sure how one is supposed to measure it, to me it seems more like a myth intended to give legitimacy to more recent changes.

    at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena.
     
    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up. In Scandinavia, even Sweden, there seems to have been something of a backlash and subsequent policy change, but there's absolutely no sign of that here, instead the establishment is steadily escalating its mass immigration programme with new incentives (e. g. plans to change naturalization laws, so naturalization will be possible after only three years, and using every pretext to bring in more immigrants, e. g. the first reaction to the recent earthquake in Turkey and Syria was to grant visa to people from the area who have relatives in Germany).

    Replies: @Coconuts, @songbird

  1029. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Looking at this face, I cannot doubt the insular Celtic having an Afro-asiatic substratum.
     
    His eyes look almost a little Georgian.

    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).

    By the way, speaking of Neolithic structures, apparently the Bell Beaker people inhabited Newgrange at one point. I've been to Newgrange and I've seen the passage that gets illuminated by the rays of the Sun, but there is another cult place, right next to the main structure, a timber circle that was apparently built later than the Newgrange mound itself.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    I also know someone who supposedly only has known French, Scots Irish, Scottish and Brit ancestry and who would really looks Mediterranean.

    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn’t been lost.

    A very nice person this acquaintance of mine.

    [MORE]

    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place. I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations’ elite. And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn’t know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did. It became a feature in most of Central Europe during Unetice Culture period. There are dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of these ring (or rondel) enclosure sanctuaries in Germany, Austria and Poland. The one which is seen as kind of reference type is the Poemmelte circle enclosure of relatively recent discovery. They sometimes also dug a ditch around the circle.

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Poemmelte-Zackmuende-Salzlandkreis-Overall-plan-of-the-rondel-and-the-related-features_fig2_291349779

    Supposedly the Nebra Disk comes from somewhere in the vicinity.

    Of note, human sacrifice seems to having been practiced at Poemmelte with women and children being the victims. As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.

    Once fully established, the Unetice Culture développed into the first complex Central European society.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333180404_PRINCES_ARMIES_SANCTUARIES_THE_EMERGENCE_OF_COMPLEX_AUTHORITY_IN_THE_CENTRAL_GERMAN_UNETICE_CULTURE#pf10

    (They write “Central German”, but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.)

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn’t been lost.
     
    They got bleached pretty well though.

    My acquaintance's mother was light blonde, the father was neither light nor too dark, her daughter is platinum blonde as an adult with porcelain white skin. So she is in between two ashen blondes, herself being very dark. The contrast is simply stunning.


    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place.
     
    Oh, I loved it very much, I spent a half of the day there. It's in Drogheda, so close to Dublin and the ride there is also quite beautiful, with lush green landscapes.

    I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations’ elite.

     

    From what I understood, there had been three cultural layers there (the original one, then another in the Bronze Age and another one, maybe Druids or even Christians?). It's a whole complex, not just the main cairn but also surrounding menhir.

    And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn’t know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did.
     

    It's right next to it. The museum people have placed wooden poles where the original ones stood apparently and it looks almost like a forest of poles. When the guide asked: "Do you know what this is?", I immediately said: "It's a sacred grove". It was immediately obvious what it was. And she laughed and said: "Yes, kind of". It's very different from the kind of sacred grove that I had been used to, though. It's much older, more indigenous looking.

    As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.
     
    Yea, I remember that comment, one feels real pity for those poor victimized ones. They must have been cruel (and probably didn't reflect on their cruelty much). It's primitive and efficient.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.
     
    I'm starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning. She's very competitive (highly accomplished but also athletically competitive), has a very strong "selfish gene" and she seems disproportionately attached to the females in her direct lineage (much more so than the males). But maybe I'm seeing too much in this.

    They write “Central German”, but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.
     
    Yes, more of it in Poland and Czechia / Slovakia.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  1030. @Beckow
    @Yevardian

    There is plenty of research, from India (obviously) and elsewhere, easy to find. I don't subscribe to it - it is unproven, I mentioned it as one of the possible explanations for the linguistic links and ancient myths.

    I forgot to mention Elam that has been linked to the ancient Dravidian languages. The abstract terms in Phoenician could be from the ancient substratum from a proto-Dravidian family. But there are other explanations. Sumerians are a mystery, a language 'isolate', but logically there can be no such thing. Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills. That leaves only a few logical explanations: from the south, east (Elam), north (Anatolia), west (Syria)...it is obvious that they didn't move from too far away, they were not Semites or IE. The idea that they came from the northern Indian Ocean shorelines is not far fetched...it would suggest a Dravidian connection, but the Sumerian language is not Dravidian, although it has some archaic links, but the grammars are different. The area is huge, there is no reason separate language families couldn't develop - and be in contact with each other exchanging term.

    One of the best ways to understand the past is to look at what resulted from it and logically derive how it could have happened. With Sumer we take what we know around 3k BC and look back how it could come to that... the Indian Ocean, the boats, trade in metals, etc.. it is all in the geography. They didn't come from Britain, Africa or out of space...maybe they came from Armenia :)...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    They didn’t come from Britain, Africa or out of space…

    You can’t be absolutely sure they didn’t come from space… This would at least explain their sudden emergence. And there must be some reason why Sumerians did disappear a lot of time ago, but parts of their mythology still live today disguised as Greco-Roman mythology.

    Plus, the UFO theme never dies.. For a reason, I suppose. The problem in seeing it as a part of the system of control is that no system of control demands a necessary element of aliens. In fact, “aliens” create a lot of problems as uncontrollable element of such a system.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    In fact, I have a feeling that a recently developed theme of evil AI (wow, I recently heard a discussion on it on Polish public radio) is perhaps being set up as an answer to potential uncontrollability of some factors, maybe UFO.

    And then TPTB will scream "AI did it!", "Yes, we had a secret program of building UFOs, but now AI hijacked them and is using our own UFOs against us!"

  1031. @Beckow
    @Yevardian

    There is plenty of research, from India (obviously) and elsewhere, easy to find. I don't subscribe to it - it is unproven, I mentioned it as one of the possible explanations for the linguistic links and ancient myths.

    I forgot to mention Elam that has been linked to the ancient Dravidian languages. The abstract terms in Phoenician could be from the ancient substratum from a proto-Dravidian family. But there are other explanations. Sumerians are a mystery, a language 'isolate', but logically there can be no such thing. Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills. That leaves only a few logical explanations: from the south, east (Elam), north (Anatolia), west (Syria)...it is obvious that they didn't move from too far away, they were not Semites or IE. The idea that they came from the northern Indian Ocean shorelines is not far fetched...it would suggest a Dravidian connection, but the Sumerian language is not Dravidian, although it has some archaic links, but the grammars are different. The area is huge, there is no reason separate language families couldn't develop - and be in contact with each other exchanging term.

    One of the best ways to understand the past is to look at what resulted from it and logically derive how it could have happened. With Sumer we take what we know around 3k BC and look back how it could come to that... the Indian Ocean, the boats, trade in metals, etc.. it is all in the geography. They didn't come from Britain, Africa or out of space...maybe they came from Armenia :)...

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ivashka the fool

    Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills.

    Never heard of that.

    Agree with the Elamite – Dravidian connection. And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool


    And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.
     
    Agree, legendary "Tin Mountains" are said to be in Afghanistan.
    , @Beckow
    @Ivashka the fool

    Sumerians had a 'myth' about Dilmun, where 'gods' came from to settle Sumer:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun

    The two-cultures is based on their own writing and society organization. It is possible that one was the previous indigenous people in the Euphratus-Tigris delta.

    The issue with Elamites is that they were mountain-hill people (Zagros). Sumerians were flat-landers, it is unlikely that they would adopt the marshy delta flatlands as homeland if they didn't previously reside around water and in a similar environment - that eliminates Armenia:)...

    Elam definitely linked Sumer to the Indus Valley...the 'el' in the name is also significant, but about that some other time...

  1032. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Beckow


    They didn’t come from Britain, Africa or out of space…
     
    You can't be absolutely sure they didn't come from space... This would at least explain their sudden emergence. And there must be some reason why Sumerians did disappear a lot of time ago, but parts of their mythology still live today disguised as Greco-Roman mythology.

    Plus, the UFO theme never dies.. For a reason, I suppose. The problem in seeing it as a part of the system of control is that no system of control demands a necessary element of aliens. In fact, "aliens" create a lot of problems as uncontrollable element of such a system.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    In fact, I have a feeling that a recently developed theme of evil AI (wow, I recently heard a discussion on it on Polish public radio) is perhaps being set up as an answer to potential uncontrollability of some factors, maybe UFO.

    And then TPTB will scream “AI did it!”, “Yes, we had a secret program of building UFOs, but now AI hijacked them and is using our own UFOs against us!”

  1033. @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.
     

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills.
     
    Never heard of that.

    Agree with the Elamite - Dravidian connection. And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Beckow

    And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.

    Agree, legendary “Tin Mountains” are said to be in Afghanistan.

  1034. @Coconuts
    @songbird

    Tend to agree, I always assumed Clooney was partly Caucasian or something like that. I haven't come across an Irishman as dark as he is. Colin Farrell is the darkest I have seen and he seems rare for the Irish in general. That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    @LatW


    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).
     
    I don't know if it always comes up on dna tests like ancestry but there was a big study of Anglo-Saxon genetics that found most people in England have more French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    Yes the Welsh (and perhaps the Scottish Picts) were supposedly darker than other insular Celts. Interestingly, the Picts were matrilinear, while the Welsh happen to carry more Y haplogroup E than other insular Celts.

    French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.

    Brythonic people already migrated back and forth accross the channel centuries before the Norman conquest. I don’t think it’s easy to separate the insular ethnic groups and their continental counterparts on genetics’ grounds. They’re probably too similar.

  1035. @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    The BB people got admixed pretty rapidly on their male side. But it was probably a slower process on their female side. That is, the females of the original BB population were probably only mating BB males, while BB males had access to a large pool of females from the conquered populations.
     
    The authors of that study repeat the same thing in the appendix about the genetic origins of the Bell Beaker complex (it seems to have been one of their big findings):

    Our result that the majority of Beaker-associated skeletons from Iberia are genetically continuous with previous Iberian populations—with no evidence for a strong contribution of Iberian Beaker-associated populations to non-Iberian Beaker-associated ones—is an important fact to take into account in future discussions of the origin and spread of the
    Beaker Complex.
     
    So maybe the beakers were brought from Iberia to Central Europe by a small number? Iirc the guy writing in Eupedia about r1b mentions movement into Iberia from the North later as well, when more steppe ancestry is supposed to have arrived there. R1b1b (R-V88) is mentioned as being already in Iberia in Neolithic times, he links them with the early beakers.

    Still somewhat Mediterranean. Would fit nicely in Morocco.
     
    Surprisingly I do know a person who looks reasonably like this woman, my wife. She has some tartar ancestry on her dad's side but her maternal aunts kind of look like this as well, round head, smaller features, the black hair and some olive colouring. The nose is characteristic. They are from the South of Belarus. I didn't know this sort of phenotype existed in Eastern Europe before going there (it's obviously not typical for Belarus), but I saw some others like this in Gomel region and over the border in Ukraine. People in the US often took her for a Latina of some kind.

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Yahya

    From my pov, Moroccan people tend to have stronger features, more arched brows, the height of the nose is greater, looks like Arab influence. Maybe before the Arab influence arrived they looked a bit different. I remember Moors are famous for being very mixed, with Sub-Saharan, Arab and European.

    Berbers don’t look substantially different from Maghrebi Arabs. You can see in the photo below of a cross-section of Berbers:

    Most of them look Maghrebi; some are Euro-shifted and others Afro-shifted. The phenotypic profile is pretty much the same as Maghrebi Arabs. Among some northern Berber groups the euro-shifted ones may be more common; among southern groups the Afro-shifted are pre-dominant. But most Berbers look MENA as you’d expect.

    I agree with Ivashka that Arab admixture among “Arabs” in North Africa is minimal. This is pretty obvious to me since I frequently traverse between Saudi Arabia and Egypt; and have been to most Arab countries as a tourist. The phenotypic difference between Arabians and the rest is quite evident. Not a wide gap by any means; they still belong to the same broad racial grouping; but noticeable enough. People make the mistake of assuming the Arab conquest changed phenotypes significantly – they didn’t. You’d have an easier time distinguishing Maghrebi Arabs from Saudis than from Berbers

  1036. @songbird
    @Coconuts


    I imagine it will be more about immigration levels, wokeness and British identity, something broader like that.
     
    Wokeness might potentially be an easy sacrificial lamb, but I am not so sure about the rest of it. Don't even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don't think that signaling PoC can improve that. Twitter has made me really skeptical of the ability of diaspora non-Euros to align with the racial interests of the natives. There might be a few, but even most of these seem to occasionally signal their resentments, or else say strange things that an ethnic Euro nationalist would not say.

    I can see how it might start faster in Ireland, with a much smaller population and welfare system the issues will develop faster.

     

    What is happening in Ireland is truly incredible. IMO, something totally unique in global history. Normally, it seems like the migrants arrived and spent decades in the major urban centers, and maybe there was an idea that would contain them, or even reduce them. But it Ireland that process was greatly shortened, it wasn't at all long after that the first non-Euros entered Dublin that they started putting them everywhere, in the tiniest villages all across Ireland. Seems every village I have ever heard of. Absolutely nobody rational can delude themselves about it.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based. But they should be trying to encourage Irish nationalists to record it, IMO, to get more material.

    If the woke movement is to insert blacks, etc. into the past and in mythology, then we should be trying to record all their bad behavior in the present.

    Tinker, Tailor… is obviously critical of the British establishment.
     
    Some say it is about how it portrays the relationship with America, though I myself doubt it.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @LondonBob

    Tinker, Tailor was a PR attempt by an ‘ex’ spook to improve the image of the intelligence services after the absolute debacle regarding Philby and the Cambridge Five, which included Victor Rothschild.

    https://mailstar.net/perry.html

    • Thanks: songbird
  1037. @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Don’t even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don’t think that signaling PoC can improve that.
     
    Eric Kaufmann argues that the current Tory establishment is made up of people who have never had any interest in these 'cultural' questions, they are more like pure neo-liberals and focused on economics. 'Culture War' politics is seen as more low class, and it is a different sort of politics. But he was also saying that as the influence of US derived woke culture grows and demographic change becomes more obvious they won't be able to ignore it. It seems the polls show that there are all sorts of deep differences in opinion by age and economic/educational status developing under the surface, the current Tories keep its impact limited by ignoring it.



    In Britain these things are still mediated by things like class as well, because at the moment I think that is still as significant as the racial and ethnic divides (it means there are vertical divisions between races/ethnicities plus tangible horizontal ones in the white group). Awareness of racial and ethnic issues as such may be lower because it's a novelty in British Isles politics, until recently pretty much everyone was white and everyone seems to have assumed it would always be more or less like that.

    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based.
     
    Hopefully it will be documented and people will be able to follow the chain of decision making because at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena. It is happening at speed compared to other European countries, and the context is not obviously favourable (though I am thinking Scandinavian countries also brought in a lot of immigrants despite being small, homogenous and lacking any imperial past)

    Replies: @LondonBob, @German_reader

    There was a concerted effort by David Cameron, Osborne and Feldman to stop the Conservatives becoming a patriotic party hence the A List, the diverse candidates and the ex Lib Dems. Looks like they are heading for a historic wipe out accordingly, not sure if what comes next will be an improvement initially, but the Conservatives are unreformable and need removing.

  1038. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @songbird


    Don’t even know how it would work, as the Tories were always full of promises they failed to deliver, and I don’t think that signaling PoC can improve that.
     
    Eric Kaufmann argues that the current Tory establishment is made up of people who have never had any interest in these 'cultural' questions, they are more like pure neo-liberals and focused on economics. 'Culture War' politics is seen as more low class, and it is a different sort of politics. But he was also saying that as the influence of US derived woke culture grows and demographic change becomes more obvious they won't be able to ignore it. It seems the polls show that there are all sorts of deep differences in opinion by age and economic/educational status developing under the surface, the current Tories keep its impact limited by ignoring it.



    In Britain these things are still mediated by things like class as well, because at the moment I think that is still as significant as the racial and ethnic divides (it means there are vertical divisions between races/ethnicities plus tangible horizontal ones in the white group). Awareness of racial and ethnic issues as such may be lower because it's a novelty in British Isles politics, until recently pretty much everyone was white and everyone seems to have assumed it would always be more or less like that.

    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.

    That is not to say, anyone will do anything, before it is too late. I really wish that there was some organized effort to document it all. IMO, it is what the Eastern European governments should be trying to do. At the very least, it would make great propaganda for them, if they became more based.
     
    Hopefully it will be documented and people will be able to follow the chain of decision making because at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena. It is happening at speed compared to other European countries, and the context is not obviously favourable (though I am thinking Scandinavian countries also brought in a lot of immigrants despite being small, homogenous and lacking any imperial past)

    Replies: @LondonBob, @German_reader

    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.

    I’m not sure I understand that argument. From the recollections of my father who grew up in 1950s and 1960s Lancashire it sounds like there was a strong sense of British (or maybe rather English) nationhood back then. In his grammar school they did a lot of English medieval history, read Shakespeare (“this sceptred isle” and all that) etc., definitive sense of cultural and national continuity. Ok, may have been not typical (only a small percentage went to grammar schools after all), but still. And frankly, it was a sense of ethnic nationhood. None of that “happy multi-coloured imperial family” stuff that seems to be the emerging narrative among faux critics of wokeness. He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”. There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
    I know there’s a line of argument which argues that Britain’s sense of nationhood was always categorically different from most of continental Europe (völkisch Germany etc.), but I have trouble seeing it. Given that Britain was essentially monoethnic (apart from the divisions between the established British Isles nations) until quite recently, I’m not even sure how one is supposed to measure it, to me it seems more like a myth intended to give legitimacy to more recent changes.

    at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena.

    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up. In Scandinavia, even Sweden, there seems to have been something of a backlash and subsequent policy change, but there’s absolutely no sign of that here, instead the establishment is steadily escalating its mass immigration programme with new incentives (e. g. plans to change naturalization laws, so naturalization will be possible after only three years, and using every pretext to bring in more immigrants, e. g. the first reaction to the recent earthquake in Turkey and Syria was to grant visa to people from the area who have relatives in Germany).

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    I’m not sure I understand that argument.
     
    Ah, I started using European or Euro in the way Songbird suggested a while back as including British and Irish. I would agree with you that there isn't a clear dividing line between British and Continental versions of national/ethnic identity really.

    I found Hannah Arendt's book about Totalitarianism good on this aspect (taking into account her own pov), she breaks things down emerging ideas about nationalism and race during the 19th and 20th centuries into the 'white' concept that emerged in Anglo and Dutch colonies, the distinctive variants of nationalism from France and Southern Europe, then Pan-Germanism and Pan-Slavism. It seemed in some way informative to understand where the different perspectives are coming from. You can then read more from other sources.


    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”
     
    This got me thinking of the (in)famous sketch in the sitcom 'Fawlty Towers' (I think from the late 70s) where the retired major explains the difference between 'Niggers' and 'Wogs' to Basil Fawlty. The BBC started to censor this episode on their streaming service which drew attention to it.

    There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
     
    I had this in my family because my parents are both products of mixed marriages between Irish men and Anglo/Scottish women. One of my grandads' maternal language was still Irish, but he seems to have had a mixed and conflicted sense of identity which he passed on to my mother. She both looks very Irish while manifesting various prejudices against Ireland, was brought up a Protestant and is quite anti-clerical but converted as an adult to Catholicism.

    I think nowadays these things may still be latent but most people are less conscious of where it comes from historically.


    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up.
     
    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    , @songbird
    @German_reader


    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”.
     
    Imagine you have heard of Ed Dutton, who promotes HBD, and the idea that we are getting stupider. Born c1980. One of his teachers was once asked, what would happen if a black and a white married? She said that the baby would probably be born white with black spots, and everyone laughed.
  1039. German_reader says:
    @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    Haven’t read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green’s Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn’t stand the author’s persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?
     
    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically? I mostly read Green's popular biography on Alexander on Badian's recommendation, in the middle of a notorious review which trashed Robin-Lane Fox's Alexander biography.
    Green's book didn't stand out or anything but I didn't mind it, I certainly never got the impression he injected contemporary politics into his work or anything like that. Still not comparable to Tarn's prose or Badian or Bosworth's scholarship on Alexander, obviously.

    Anyway, I mentioned Badian before, but I'll say again, his essays on antiquity are still the most enjoyable I've ever read. Since you read Thucydides relatively recently (first time?) I'd mention I finished Badian's Collected Essays on the Pentekontaitia a few weeks ago, he really takes down the still overwhelmingly popular notion that Thucydides was 'the measure of scientific objectivity in history'.
    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists, in that as he wrote about events within the living memory of thousands, it was impossible for him to outright lie about anything, although its demonstrated that Thucyides constantly drew a tendentious narrative through techniques like omission, implying although not actually stating events happening in certain order, artful arrangement of his book's content, and so on.
    Badian has a few respectful criticisms of Ron Unz's published work on the same period as well, incidentally.

    I don't know how deep you've gone into Greco-Roman history, but 'poor sources' are really a genre defining feature. By the standards of the Hellenistic period at least, Eumenes' life isn't that scantily attested, in addition to Plutarch's Eumenes, he also appears sporadically in Plutarch's Demetrios/Alexander, as well as the authors Diodoros, Polyainos, Arrian and Curtius.

    Although Anson does include in his Eumenes book two full closing chapters discussing Greek versus Makedonian ethno-cultural identity, tangentially tying it Eumenes' own navigation of this field. Sounds like filler but they were actually quite good parts of his book in their own right.


    Regarding books, I’ve read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).
     
    I might check it out, although honestly I'd prefer to first read something authoritative on Ukraine's years post 1991 into at least the mid 2010's, a deep look into its post-Soviet collapse, the infighting between its political clans and so on.

    I forgot to mention that 'Modern Mexico' book from 1914 before posting, so I can't write much here. Yes, it was a very curious book, obviously written just before WWI, during the Mexican civil war, which at least until August 1914, was perhaps the number one item on the USA's foreign policy agenda.
    There's actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book's conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at 'the Mexican Mestizo race' sprinkled throughout that I'm sure songbird and Beckow would love.

    I don't visit here that much these days. Maybe you'd be open to sending a private contact, as I'll likely be visiting friends/family in Europe next year.

    I'll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically?

    I don’t remember much tbh (and stopped reading quite early), but iirc I found the style pretentious. Also confusing, like he assumed one already knows the major players in the diadochi struggles (which I didn’t). I might have to look at it again some time.

    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists

    I’m sure there are subtle biases in Thucydides (how couldn’t there be?), but tbh I find that comparison unconvincing…most journalists today are essentially just propagandists (and not very clever ones at that). You know exactly where they stand, what kind of narrative they want to sell you. Whereas I never got that sense when reading Thucydides…there’s no condemnation of Athens or of Sparta, both sides come across as having had good reasons for their decisions, rooted in their security dilemmas, desire to retain their existing empire/alliance structures etc. Sure, one can read the text in a way that sees Athens as driven by hubris to ruin, but the lack of explicit judgement makes such an interpretation far from the only plausible one. And while I know Thucydides is often suspected of having somewhat anti-democratic sentiments (would hardly be surprising given his banishment), I couldn’t really discern that either.
    But thanks for the recommendation of Badian’s works, I think I’ll have to eventually look at them.

    I don’t know how deep you’ve gone into Greco-Roman history, but ‘poor sources’ are really a genre defining feature.

    Sure, but for some eras you do at least have documentary sources like coins or inscriptions, or can use archaeology to some extent. If it’s just a re-telling of a few literary sources, one can sometimes wonder what the point is.

    [MORE]

    I’ll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.

    I can send you an email for contact via that medium, but tbh I don’t think I really want to divulge my personal information (nothing to do with you, more of a general policy, all the more so given the kind of things I’ve written here over the years). I doubt you’d derive much enjoyment from a personal meeting with me anyway, there are better things to do on vacation.

  1040. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.
     
    I'm not sure I understand that argument. From the recollections of my father who grew up in 1950s and 1960s Lancashire it sounds like there was a strong sense of British (or maybe rather English) nationhood back then. In his grammar school they did a lot of English medieval history, read Shakespeare ("this sceptred isle" and all that) etc., definitive sense of cultural and national continuity. Ok, may have been not typical (only a small percentage went to grammar schools after all), but still. And frankly, it was a sense of ethnic nationhood. None of that "happy multi-coloured imperial family" stuff that seems to be the emerging narrative among faux critics of wokeness. He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria "Niggeria". There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
    I know there's a line of argument which argues that Britain's sense of nationhood was always categorically different from most of continental Europe (völkisch Germany etc.), but I have trouble seeing it. Given that Britain was essentially monoethnic (apart from the divisions between the established British Isles nations) until quite recently, I'm not even sure how one is supposed to measure it, to me it seems more like a myth intended to give legitimacy to more recent changes.

    at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena.
     
    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up. In Scandinavia, even Sweden, there seems to have been something of a backlash and subsequent policy change, but there's absolutely no sign of that here, instead the establishment is steadily escalating its mass immigration programme with new incentives (e. g. plans to change naturalization laws, so naturalization will be possible after only three years, and using every pretext to bring in more immigrants, e. g. the first reaction to the recent earthquake in Turkey and Syria was to grant visa to people from the area who have relatives in Germany).

    Replies: @Coconuts, @songbird

    I’m not sure I understand that argument.

    Ah, I started using European or Euro in the way Songbird suggested a while back as including British and Irish. I would agree with you that there isn’t a clear dividing line between British and Continental versions of national/ethnic identity really.

    I found Hannah Arendt’s book about Totalitarianism good on this aspect (taking into account her own pov), she breaks things down emerging ideas about nationalism and race during the 19th and 20th centuries into the ‘white’ concept that emerged in Anglo and Dutch colonies, the distinctive variants of nationalism from France and Southern Europe, then Pan-Germanism and Pan-Slavism. It seemed in some way informative to understand where the different perspectives are coming from. You can then read more from other sources.

    [MORE]

    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”

    This got me thinking of the (in)famous sketch in the sitcom ‘Fawlty Towers’ (I think from the late 70s) where the retired major explains the difference between ‘Niggers’ and ‘Wogs’ to Basil Fawlty. The BBC started to censor this episode on their streaming service which drew attention to it.

    There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).

    I had this in my family because my parents are both products of mixed marriages between Irish men and Anglo/Scottish women. One of my grandads’ maternal language was still Irish, but he seems to have had a mixed and conflicted sense of identity which he passed on to my mother. She both looks very Irish while manifesting various prejudices against Ireland, was brought up a Protestant and is quite anti-clerical but converted as an adult to Catholicism.

    I think nowadays these things may still be latent but most people are less conscious of where it comes from historically.

    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up.

    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    • Thanks: German_reader
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.
     
    Economic factors do exist in Germany as well, I think part of the establishment is really stupid enough to think indiscriminate mass immigration could be part of the solution for the pensions time bomb that will become a huge problem with the mass retirement of boomers in the next few years (of course it isn't, it's only making things even worse by importing an ethnic underclass of welfare dependents). And of course some people are profiting quite handsomely from providing housing and other services for asylum seekers. But I agree, the ideological factors are probably the most important, the policy is too crazy to explain it on purely rational grounds of profit-seeking and the like.
    , @A123
    @Coconuts


    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.
     
    I concur.

    France has problem. This results in the Yellow Vest protests and a serious effort to replace Macron. A much better run off test would have been Zemmour versus Macron.

    The German people 80%+ vote for mass immigration. It is like they are willing their own destruction. Have multiple waves of emigration, where the best & brightest left, undermined the national gene pool? There is clearly something wrong much deeper into the general population.

    PEACE 😇
  1041. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    This writes about a mass migration from Iberia into Africa thousands of years ago. Is it wrong?

    https://nemets.substack.com/p/the-sons-of-chad

    Many men among both the Laal, the Hausa, and other Chadic speaking peoples carry the Y chromosomal haplogroup R1b-V88. It puzzled scientists for a number of years as R1b lineages are most common in Europe, and there was no obvious connection between Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The puzzlement increased with the discovery of bodies with specifically R1b-V88 lineages in 8th millennium BC Ukraine and 9th or 10th millennium BC Serbia. In the last 10,000 years, the R1b-V88 lineage has largely died out in Europe outside of Sardinia, being replaced by other lineages such as I, R1a, and R1b lineages without the V88 mutation. The R1b-V88 lineage most common within Africa shows a “star shaped phylogeny” that dates to the early 4th millennium BC - that is, the men carrying it at the time were the direct forefathers of many, likely as the result of violent conquests and polygyny. While entire story of Hausa and Laal origins will likely never be known, we do know enough about prehistory to see at least the outlines of the journey of their forefathers....

    Replies: @Coconuts

    The wikipedia page on R1b and its history has the same info about R1b-V88. It tells you something about the history of the different variant Haplogroups:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    I can’t independently judge how good it is though.

  1042. German_reader says:
    @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    I’m not sure I understand that argument.
     
    Ah, I started using European or Euro in the way Songbird suggested a while back as including British and Irish. I would agree with you that there isn't a clear dividing line between British and Continental versions of national/ethnic identity really.

    I found Hannah Arendt's book about Totalitarianism good on this aspect (taking into account her own pov), she breaks things down emerging ideas about nationalism and race during the 19th and 20th centuries into the 'white' concept that emerged in Anglo and Dutch colonies, the distinctive variants of nationalism from France and Southern Europe, then Pan-Germanism and Pan-Slavism. It seemed in some way informative to understand where the different perspectives are coming from. You can then read more from other sources.


    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”
     
    This got me thinking of the (in)famous sketch in the sitcom 'Fawlty Towers' (I think from the late 70s) where the retired major explains the difference between 'Niggers' and 'Wogs' to Basil Fawlty. The BBC started to censor this episode on their streaming service which drew attention to it.

    There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
     
    I had this in my family because my parents are both products of mixed marriages between Irish men and Anglo/Scottish women. One of my grandads' maternal language was still Irish, but he seems to have had a mixed and conflicted sense of identity which he passed on to my mother. She both looks very Irish while manifesting various prejudices against Ireland, was brought up a Protestant and is quite anti-clerical but converted as an adult to Catholicism.

    I think nowadays these things may still be latent but most people are less conscious of where it comes from historically.


    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up.
     
    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    Economic factors do exist in Germany as well, I think part of the establishment is really stupid enough to think indiscriminate mass immigration could be part of the solution for the pensions time bomb that will become a huge problem with the mass retirement of boomers in the next few years (of course it isn’t, it’s only making things even worse by importing an ethnic underclass of welfare dependents). And of course some people are profiting quite handsomely from providing housing and other services for asylum seekers. But I agree, the ideological factors are probably the most important, the policy is too crazy to explain it on purely rational grounds of profit-seeking and the like.

  1043. @Coconuts
    @German_reader


    I’m not sure I understand that argument.
     
    Ah, I started using European or Euro in the way Songbird suggested a while back as including British and Irish. I would agree with you that there isn't a clear dividing line between British and Continental versions of national/ethnic identity really.

    I found Hannah Arendt's book about Totalitarianism good on this aspect (taking into account her own pov), she breaks things down emerging ideas about nationalism and race during the 19th and 20th centuries into the 'white' concept that emerged in Anglo and Dutch colonies, the distinctive variants of nationalism from France and Southern Europe, then Pan-Germanism and Pan-Slavism. It seemed in some way informative to understand where the different perspectives are coming from. You can then read more from other sources.


    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”
     
    This got me thinking of the (in)famous sketch in the sitcom 'Fawlty Towers' (I think from the late 70s) where the retired major explains the difference between 'Niggers' and 'Wogs' to Basil Fawlty. The BBC started to censor this episode on their streaming service which drew attention to it.

    There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
     
    I had this in my family because my parents are both products of mixed marriages between Irish men and Anglo/Scottish women. One of my grandads' maternal language was still Irish, but he seems to have had a mixed and conflicted sense of identity which he passed on to my mother. She both looks very Irish while manifesting various prejudices against Ireland, was brought up a Protestant and is quite anti-clerical but converted as an adult to Catholicism.

    I think nowadays these things may still be latent but most people are less conscious of where it comes from historically.


    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up.
     
    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    Replies: @German_reader, @A123

    You are right, I had neglected Germany. I tend to put it in a special category because more Germans seem to be fervent about the ideal of the multi-ethnic nation in itself than anywhere else. In Britain or Ireland or France I always suspect financial, business or power motives as much as true idealism.

    I concur.

    France has problem. This results in the Yellow Vest protests and a serious effort to replace Macron. A much better run off test would have been Zemmour versus Macron.

    The German people 80%+ vote for mass immigration. It is like they are willing their own destruction. Have multiple waves of emigration, where the best & brightest left, undermined the national gene pool? There is clearly something wrong much deeper into the general population.

    PEACE 😇

  1044. @Philip Owen
    @AnonfromTN

    All paper products are scarce again from printing paper to thermal till rolls and tissues. Paper is not sanctioned but transport, insurance and payment are now limiting issues and Russia imported heavily. The Tax Service is accepting electronic evidence for small expenditures rather than till rolls. Some local production was ramping up by last October.

    Replies: @AnonfromTN

    All paper products are scarce again from printing paper to thermal till rolls and tissues.

    That directly contradicts what I hear from people actually living in Russia. In particular, there is no problem with buying bathroom tissue neither in Moscow nor in the provinces.

    In the old days KGB had a special division tasked with misinforming and deceiving hostile countries. Now RF can save a lot of money: hostile countries actively misinform and deceive themselves. Putin would approve wholeheartedly.

  1045. @Ivashka the fool
    @Beckow


    Their founding myth is that they came by boats from the Persian Gulf (Bahrain?) and they had trade links with the Indus Valley.
     

    We know that Sumerians were a blend of two cultures and that they moved to the region and had sea faring skills.
     
    Never heard of that.

    Agree with the Elamite - Dravidian connection. And yes, the Elamite and probably Indus Valley Civilization traded with Mesopotamia.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Beckow

    Sumerians had a ‘myth’ about Dilmun, where ‘gods’ came from to settle Sumer:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun

    The two-cultures is based on their own writing and society organization. It is possible that one was the previous indigenous people in the Euphratus-Tigris delta.

    The issue with Elamites is that they were mountain-hill people (Zagros). Sumerians were flat-landers, it is unlikely that they would adopt the marshy delta flatlands as homeland if they didn’t previously reside around water and in a similar environment – that eliminates Armenia:)…

    Elam definitely linked Sumer to the Indus Valley…the ‘el’ in the name is also significant, but about that some other time…

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
  1046. @songbird
    @S

    Don't know if I imagined it (perhaps I did?), but I thought I heard this story about a horse being hurt at a battlefield, and it cropping all the grass that was within reach of its neck, before floods caused a stream to rise and wash it and the dead and dying away.

    I want to say that was at Tollense, but surely they could not have reconstructed something like that? And I must be combining it with Pompeii or something? Anyway, I once had the idea that would make a great scene for a Valkyrie taking the soul of a warrior, to go to some new battle. (And I think I had an idea for a few souls taken in different ways, after defeat)

    Cool battlefield relics, BTW. When I see skeletons like this in Ireland, I just want to extract their DNA and see if I am related to them. Suppose that makes me a weirdo. Kind of like a modern-day Patton.

    Replies: @S

    Don’t know if I imagined it (perhaps I did?), but I thought I heard this story about a horse being hurt at a battlefield, and it cropping all the grass that was within reach of its neck, before floods caused a stream to rise and wash it and the dead and dying away.

    Abyway, I once had the idea that would make a great scene for a Valkyrie taking the soul of a warrior, to go to some new battle. (And I think I had an idea for a few souls taken in different ways, after defeat)

    Woah! That’s some cool imagery you got there, Songbird! 😀

    • Thanks: songbird
  1047. @German_reader
    @Coconuts


    I would guess the difference with European nationalists is the ancestral element, and how rooted they are in the culture.
     
    I'm not sure I understand that argument. From the recollections of my father who grew up in 1950s and 1960s Lancashire it sounds like there was a strong sense of British (or maybe rather English) nationhood back then. In his grammar school they did a lot of English medieval history, read Shakespeare ("this sceptred isle" and all that) etc., definitive sense of cultural and national continuity. Ok, may have been not typical (only a small percentage went to grammar schools after all), but still. And frankly, it was a sense of ethnic nationhood. None of that "happy multi-coloured imperial family" stuff that seems to be the emerging narrative among faux critics of wokeness. He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria "Niggeria". There was (no offense to you or to songbird) even quite a bit of residual anti-Catholic and anti-Irish sentiment (iirc one teacher said something along the lines of the English being superior to the Irish in their bogs, and there was strong separation from the local Catholics).
    I know there's a line of argument which argues that Britain's sense of nationhood was always categorically different from most of continental Europe (völkisch Germany etc.), but I have trouble seeing it. Given that Britain was essentially monoethnic (apart from the divisions between the established British Isles nations) until quite recently, I'm not even sure how one is supposed to measure it, to me it seems more like a myth intended to give legitimacy to more recent changes.

    at the moment it looks like the most extreme example of the phenomena.
     
    True enough, but Germany is doing its best to catch up. In Scandinavia, even Sweden, there seems to have been something of a backlash and subsequent policy change, but there's absolutely no sign of that here, instead the establishment is steadily escalating its mass immigration programme with new incentives (e. g. plans to change naturalization laws, so naturalization will be possible after only three years, and using every pretext to bring in more immigrants, e. g. the first reaction to the recent earthquake in Turkey and Syria was to grant visa to people from the area who have relatives in Germany).

    Replies: @Coconuts, @songbird

    He had teachers (and they presumably had degrees from Oxford or Cambridge) who openly did things like calling Nigeria “Niggeria”.

    Imagine you have heard of Ed Dutton, who promotes HBD, and the idea that we are getting stupider. Born c1980. One of his teachers was once asked, what would happen if a black and a white married? She said that the baby would probably be born white with black spots, and everyone laughed.

  1048. @Coconuts
    @songbird

    Tend to agree, I always assumed Clooney was partly Caucasian or something like that. I haven't come across an Irishman as dark as he is. Colin Farrell is the darkest I have seen and he seems rare for the Irish in general. That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    @LatW


    The Celt I know is Scots Irish, some Norman French maybe, and her test showed more Scandinavian that she expected (up to 15% or something). She looks Mediterranean (but only has Northern Euro ancestry).
     
    I don't know if it always comes up on dna tests like ancestry but there was a big study of Anglo-Saxon genetics that found most people in England have more French descent than was previously thought, they were giving between 14-40% French for the population of England. The higher percentages are for the South East where this French influence seems to have centred.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @songbird

    That kind of colouring I associate more with the Welsh for some reason.

    Many mention this idea. Don’t feel I have the observations to judge it myself, but am curious how it would overlay with the geography of the mountains. My immediate instinct is to suppose that it might be Norman or English influence, in the lowlands.

    Curiously, Catherine Zeta Jones seems to be a fair mix ethnically, with Welsh, English, and Irish components. (And not sure about the deep history of the Welsh components)
    https://ethnicelebs.com/catherine-zeta-jones

    Perhaps, an alternative theory might be that it had something to do with fishing.

  1049. @Greasy William
    @LondonBob

    Mish has been predicting recession every few months since 2009. Although he also got some things right (2009 stock market recovery was for real, hyperinflation wasn't in the cards in the short term).

    Mish predicted a recession last year and now he is saying that we are currently in a recession. He was wrong in 2022 and he's wrong now. What is more likely is that the US goes into recession in May but it isn't diagnosed until early 2024. Mid 2024 is when I see a financial crisis in the United States there potentially being problems with Ukraine funding.

    I do agree that Mish is worth reading. Not so crazy about his commenters, they were a lot better in the post GFC days of 2009 and 2010.

    Replies: @LondonBob

    I think the US has been in recession since late spring, been some odd statistics produced by the Biden regime, and inflation has distorted others, been mostly that most lagging of indicators, jobs, keeping the GDP figure up, but those have already been revised and will be further still.

    https://moneymovesmarkets.com/journal/2022/12/21/has-the-fed-been-misled-by-faulty-payrolls-data.html

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    @LondonBob


    I think the US has been in recession since late spring, been some odd statistics produced by the Biden regime, and inflation has distorted others, been mostly that most lagging of indicators, jobs, keeping the GDP figure up, but those have already been revised and will be further still.
     
    This was initially my position. For most of last year I thought that we were in a recession that started in March. Eventually I came to realize that while we had hit a slow patch, it wasn't a true recession (which is, to be fair, a somewhat arbitrary classification regardless).

    The leading macro indicators pretty much all predict recession beginning sometime between March and October. I think recession will start in May with net job losses beginning in October. Hopefully there will be a financial crisis and stock market crash in Q1-Q2 of 2024
  1050. @LondonBob
    @Greasy William

    I think the US has been in recession since late spring, been some odd statistics produced by the Biden regime, and inflation has distorted others, been mostly that most lagging of indicators, jobs, keeping the GDP figure up, but those have already been revised and will be further still.

    https://moneymovesmarkets.com/journal/2022/12/21/has-the-fed-been-misled-by-faulty-payrolls-data.html

    Replies: @Greasy William

    I think the US has been in recession since late spring, been some odd statistics produced by the Biden regime, and inflation has distorted others, been mostly that most lagging of indicators, jobs, keeping the GDP figure up, but those have already been revised and will be further still.

    This was initially my position. For most of last year I thought that we were in a recession that started in March. Eventually I came to realize that while we had hit a slow patch, it wasn’t a true recession (which is, to be fair, a somewhat arbitrary classification regardless).

    The leading macro indicators pretty much all predict recession beginning sometime between March and October. I think recession will start in May with net job losses beginning in October. Hopefully there will be a financial crisis and stock market crash in Q1-Q2 of 2024

  1051. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
    @songbird

    Mulan (2020) is basically a microcosm of CCP in cahoots with Hollywood to make a fake astroturfed history movie--

    - The plot was something about patriotism, but not a single actor in the film held PRC citizenship

    - There's a lot shilling about traditional Chinese culture, but Mulan herself might not have been Han Chinese, but rather a Xianbei.

    In any case, the dynasty she lived in, Northern Wei, was definitely a dynasty ruled by Xianbei horse-riding conqueror khagans, amongst which light hair and blue eyes was not uncommon.

    It would be like portraying someone from the Rus' Khaganate fighting against Huns as an East Slavic national hero.

    https://i.postimg.cc/Jh3NBpf3/Asia-500ad.jpg

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Wokechoke

    You are showing yourself up here, either trolling or stupidity. The Huns were a late Roman era threat culminating at a battle in Chalons, 451AD.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Catalaunian_Plains

    We can’t even be sure who the Huns really were. Atilla could have just been a cavalry warlord leading a largely German horde.

    Do you mean that the Rus being battered by Mongols in the 1200s?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_the_Destruction_of_Ryazan

    The population where Moscow is now the central metro area was densely populated at the time and remained so during the Mongol conquest.

  1052. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    I also know someone who supposedly only has known French, Scots Irish, Scottish and Brit ancestry and who would really looks Mediterranean.

    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn't been lost.

    A very nice person this acquaintance of mine.



    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place. I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations' elite. And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn't know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did. It became a feature in most of Central Europe during Unetice Culture period. There are dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of these ring (or rondel) enclosure sanctuaries in Germany, Austria and Poland. The one which is seen as kind of reference type is the Poemmelte circle enclosure of relatively recent discovery. They sometimes also dug a ditch around the circle.

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Poemmelte-Zackmuende-Salzlandkreis-Overall-plan-of-the-rondel-and-the-related-features_fig2_291349779

    Supposedly the Nebra Disk comes from somewhere in the vicinity.

    Of note, human sacrifice seems to having been practiced at Poemmelte with women and children being the victims. As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.

    Once fully established, the Unetice Culture développed into the first complex Central European society.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333180404_PRINCES_ARMIES_SANCTUARIES_THE_EMERGENCE_OF_COMPLEX_AUTHORITY_IN_THE_CENTRAL_GERMAN_UNETICE_CULTURE#pf10

    (They write "Central German", but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.)

    Replies: @LatW

    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn’t been lost.

    They got bleached pretty well though.

    [MORE]

    My acquaintance’s mother was light blonde, the father was neither light nor too dark, her daughter is platinum blonde as an adult with porcelain white skin. So she is in between two ashen blondes, herself being very dark. The contrast is simply stunning.

    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place.

    Oh, I loved it very much, I spent a half of the day there. It’s in Drogheda, so close to Dublin and the ride there is also quite beautiful, with lush green landscapes.

    I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations’ elite.

    From what I understood, there had been three cultural layers there (the original one, then another in the Bronze Age and another one, maybe Druids or even Christians?). It’s a whole complex, not just the main cairn but also surrounding menhir.

    And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn’t know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did.

    It’s right next to it. The museum people have placed wooden poles where the original ones stood apparently and it looks almost like a forest of poles. When the guide asked: “Do you know what this is?”, I immediately said: “It’s a sacred grove”. It was immediately obvious what it was. And she laughed and said: “Yes, kind of”. It’s very different from the kind of sacred grove that I had been used to, though. It’s much older, more indigenous looking.

    As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.

    Yea, I remember that comment, one feels real pity for those poor victimized ones. They must have been cruel (and probably didn’t reflect on their cruelty much). It’s primitive and efficient.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.

    I’m starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning. She’s very competitive (highly accomplished but also athletically competitive), has a very strong “selfish gene” and she seems disproportionately attached to the females in her direct lineage (much more so than the males). But maybe I’m seeing too much in this.

    They write “Central German”, but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.

    Yes, more of it in Poland and Czechia / Slovakia.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @LatW


    They got bleached pretty well though.
     
    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell. I maybe have more experience of studying human faces than the average because of my job in the past, but those are different types.

    I wouldn't be surprising if dark British come from more EEF influenced populations from France that re-migrated into Britain in the Iron Age, or later.


    I’m starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning...But maybe I’m seeing too much in this.
     
    It's not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I'm not certain) needs a lot more data points.

    This is a quite weird discussion because I have a lot of Scottish Irish descent, I am dark like Colin Farrell, and when I started going to Lithuania and Belarus I started taking martial arts classes, it felt like I might need it (from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people). My wife and her family also look a lot like Bell Beaker Ava from the reconstruction, it adds an extra layer of weirdness.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

  1053. For now, in the Republican party, the media are talking about several likely presidential candidates for 2024. Donald Trump, Ron Desantis, Nikkei Haley, Mike Pompeo.

    In relation to Ukraine. Donald Trump is going isolationist and is viewed as the more likely to win. Ron Desantis also opposed Ukraine. He is the populist uneducated kind of Republican who will try to enter competition with Trump. (Nikkei Haley, Mike Pompeo will probably support Ukraine at least from the viewpoint of Lockheed Martin.)

    What is the influence for Russia? It means there is a possibility of victory by waiting for 2024, but more likely result of another trap for frog not exiting the hot water as Biden will likely win election against the most popular Republican candidates in November 2024.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    What is the influence for Russia? It means there is a possibility of victory by waiting for 2024
     
    We will move faster than that. We will finish this year.

    p.s. Unless Xi intervenes, which he won't. Wait for Xi's speech, it's coming up soon.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  1054. @Dmitry
    For now, in the Republican party, the media are talking about several likely presidential candidates for 2024. Donald Trump, Ron Desantis, Nikkei Haley, Mike Pompeo.

    In relation to Ukraine. Donald Trump is going isolationist and is viewed as the more likely to win. Ron Desantis also opposed Ukraine. He is the populist uneducated kind of Republican who will try to enter competition with Trump. (Nikkei Haley, Mike Pompeo will probably support Ukraine at least from the viewpoint of Lockheed Martin.)

    https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/1628073829472907266

    What is the influence for Russia? It means there is a possibility of victory by waiting for 2024, but more likely result of another trap for frog not exiting the hot water as Biden will likely win election against the most popular Republican candidates in November 2024.

    Replies: @LatW

    What is the influence for Russia? It means there is a possibility of victory by waiting for 2024

    We will move faster than that. We will finish this year.

    p.s. Unless Xi intervenes, which he won’t. Wait for Xi’s speech, it’s coming up soon.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    We will finish this year.
     
    Who is "we"? If "we" could control these things we would haven't war.

    Although the equipment is limited I'm not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.

    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don't win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years. They were fighting when there was lack of equipment and also after Iran has reconquered land Iraq conquered in the first year.

    -

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1627679715409424386

    Although Republicans are kinds of changing and "unstable" on this topic, as a branch of the Republicans which are probably going to lose popularity with Republican base, although can be closer to Republican elite.
    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1626415978144825344

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

  1055. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    The age of classical Empires is gone.

    You don't really need to be a state and even much less so an Empire to access ressources and markets anymore. I think that as our system is slowly but inexorably converted into networks of interest and lobbying groups, so will the whole world become converted into competing transnational networks of TNCs, NGOs, "religious" organizations that act like corporations, sexual minorities that act as political parties, and political movements that act like mafias. Add to this the Technosphere evolving towards an increasing control over the flows of energy, ressources, information and you get the type of society described in cyberpunk novels.

    What would be the best manner to organize humans in such an environment? Depends on what the end goal of the organization is.

    I think that to maximize the survival of the genetic lineages undergoing the population bottleneck in the next several decades, a kind of transnational (pseudo ?) religious and (quasi ?)-tribal financial organization, which would encourage its members to procreate as much as possible, would be optimal.

    If the end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role games in an immersive AR environment with access to "online fame", "online wealth", "online sex", drugs and cheap calories would be best.

    The first option would easily coexist with the second, as they will not intersect in real life. The first population would relatively easily replace the second as second would be dysfunctional in real life environment and would not be able to form families and raise children.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @Dmitry

    maximize the survival of the genetic lineages.. members to procreate as much as possible… AR environment with access to “online fame”, “online wealth”,

    Well, it is dystopian nightmares.

    This view that life should be spread and procreation of machine codes (genetic lineages), increasing of the problem of overpopulation which is one of already one of the most dehumanizing aspects of the world at the current level and computerization of the population.

    end-goal is not survival, but maximum enjoyment (dopamine) levels, then multi-player role

    Enjoyment is not just dopamine levels, or happy life would be sugar water, cigarettes and cocaine in your operant conditioning cell.

    Conditions for the happy life for the people in the modern world are things that was known in the 18th century like the respect for the individual life, liberty, freedom, autonomy.

    Unfortunately, in the 20th century, our concepts of peoples’ autonomy have been re-interpreted by capitalism in America
    – “Freedom to choose between twenty brands of processed cheese in the supermarket”.
    – “Freedom to drive my car and create traffic jams”.
    – “Freedom for business to operate in low regulatory environment”.

    While in the second/third world our view of freedom is like
    – “Freedom not to follow building regulations”
    – “Freedom to pay my friends with government money”
    – “Freedom from responsibility for our politicians”.
    – “Freedom to add chemicals to the water supply”

    Obviously, this is not the understanding of freedom which will result in the happy life.

    classical Empires is gone

    Developed modern countries which have been the most successful, are where the power is shared by larger shares of the population, there are the liberal humanistic tradition and there is contact of man with nature. This is the model of Switzerland or Norway.

    The size of the countries is not too large in terms of population, the density of population is lower and the main passions of the population relate to the contact with the natural world. Obviously, the luxury economic situation (banking in Switzerland, oil in Norway) is a precondition most of the world doesn’t have.

    But perhaps it’s not impossible for countries to learn something. The smaller countries can working better for their people. .

  1056. @Barbarossa
    @Greasy William


    we humans need a lot of meat to survive. Veganism doesn’t work.
     
    I agree that Veganism doesn't work well, but I would disagree with the former. A little meat goes a long way.

    I don't agree that dumbing animals down is any better. It's like solving the problem of human suffering by nuking humanity or solving the problems of rape and abuse by killing all women and replacing them with sex-bots. It doesn't address the nature of the question/ problem. Using your logic is it desirable for a man to live a frictionless/ risk free life as a good unto itself? Were Corona policies prudent and desirable? Corona reaction is just factory farming logic applied to humans.

    Even the dumber animals suffer in confinement operations. I've been around them some and I have a hard time imagining how one could rationalize them as not bad.

    I know not everyone is going do what I do in life but I keep my freezers full and my animals live a pretty great life until they get a .22 in the brain while their nose is in a grain bucket. They don't even know that the lights are out. Again, not everyone is going to pursue my lifestyle, but my point is that our farming system could be far different than it is today and that the status quo is unnecessary and a result of asking the wrong questions.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Until the 20th century, most people in Russia don’t eat meat unless it is a luxury. Maybe when an animal died, your neighbor stole a bird from the landowner or you had some fish from the river.

    In the early 20th century, part of glamor of the ultra-wealthy countries like Argentina or USA, could have been partly because the wider public of Americans and Argentinians were eating meat regularly. Ordinary people of those countries having diets like aristocrats from the international perspective.

    As the century continues, after the successful agriculture policy of Stalin, everyone is eating meat, but it’s often cans of stewed meat. America was also living with similar products by the middle of the century.

  1057. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Bell-Beaker ancestry coming out through recombination. It has been diluted, but it hasn’t been lost.
     
    They got bleached pretty well though.

    My acquaintance's mother was light blonde, the father was neither light nor too dark, her daughter is platinum blonde as an adult with porcelain white skin. So she is in between two ashen blondes, herself being very dark. The contrast is simply stunning.


    You have been lucky to have had a chance to visit Newgrange. It is an impressive place.
     
    Oh, I loved it very much, I spent a half of the day there. It's in Drogheda, so close to Dublin and the ride there is also quite beautiful, with lush green landscapes.

    I have mentioned in one of my comments above the Bell-Beaker folks sometimes re-using the tombs of the conquered populations’ elite.

     

    From what I understood, there had been three cultural layers there (the original one, then another in the Bronze Age and another one, maybe Druids or even Christians?). It's a whole complex, not just the main cairn but also surrounding menhir.

    And yes they used timber circles to delineate their sacred spaces. I didn’t know they built one close to Newgrange, but I am not surprised they did.
     

    It's right next to it. The museum people have placed wooden poles where the original ones stood apparently and it looks almost like a forest of poles. When the guide asked: "Do you know what this is?", I immediately said: "It's a sacred grove". It was immediately obvious what it was. And she laughed and said: "Yes, kind of". It's very different from the kind of sacred grove that I had been used to, though. It's much older, more indigenous looking.

    As I mentioned above in one of the comments, the war band of Bell-Beaker who were massacred at Tollense were accompanied by hundreds of probable servants, many of them women and children whose bodies show signs of wear from hard work and long marching.
     
    Yea, I remember that comment, one feels real pity for those poor victimized ones. They must have been cruel (and probably didn't reflect on their cruelty much). It's primitive and efficient.

    Basically, it was a warrior culture completely subjugating a conquered population and erasing its male component while using its women to procreate, and its children and women to work as slaves.
     
    I'm starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning. She's very competitive (highly accomplished but also athletically competitive), has a very strong "selfish gene" and she seems disproportionately attached to the females in her direct lineage (much more so than the males). But maybe I'm seeing too much in this.

    They write “Central German”, but of course Unetice was way larger than Central Germany.
     
    Yes, more of it in Poland and Czechia / Slovakia.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    They got bleached pretty well though.

    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell. I maybe have more experience of studying human faces than the average because of my job in the past, but those are different types.

    I wouldn’t be surprising if dark British come from more EEF influenced populations from France that re-migrated into Britain in the Iron Age, or later.

    I’m starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning…But maybe I’m seeing too much in this.

    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points.

    This is a quite weird discussion because I have a lot of Scottish Irish descent, I am dark like Colin Farrell, and when I started going to Lithuania and Belarus I started taking martial arts classes, it felt like I might need it (from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people). My wife and her family also look a lot like Bell Beaker Ava from the reconstruction, it adds an extra layer of weirdness.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Coconuts


    I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points.
     
    Of course, we are just guessing here, I didn't even know or assume she was "Bell Beaker", she doesn't look like Ava, she has slightly olive skin and dark hair, but her facial features are very fine (she was much more beautiful than Ava in her prime).

    For example, there are quite a few Scots Irish in the US military, holding pretty high posts.

    from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people
     

    I know what you mean, if you were there in the early or mid 2000s, then it was still quite brutal there. But that's not what I meant - I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn't mean to stereotype your people, I'm going from purely anecdotal evidence, it's a puzzle I'm trying to solve.

    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/meet-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180959988/

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

    , @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell.
     
    I also tend to think that linking physical traits automatically to ancient human groups is very iffy. Perhaps all these groups already had a mix of physical traits, just like what we see in contemporary Europeans, where very marked clines exist (eg North-South with light hair) but you find people with very different phenotypes both in Northern and Southern Europe.

    I don't know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world. This was kind of funny because, at a popular level, people in the Basque Country and Spain found a reason to explain why Basques tend to be lighter than Spaniards whereas the British found the explanation for the swarthy types among them.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate. Light eyes are also relatively common, perhaps 1/4 or 1/3 of people have them. This looks to me like an adaptation to the ecosystem that may have been there for a long time, before the Yamnaya came from the North, culled the male population and gave us the high levels of R1b. But occasionally you find very dark types as well, eg footballer Mikel Arteta, that one could associate with the George Cloney type, based on pigmentation alone:

    https://d2x51gyc4ptf2q.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2022/11/12115213/Mikel-Arteta-Arsenal-F365-2022-11-12T115208.079.jpg

    As far as I know, Arteta is a pure ethnic Basque. His two surnames are Basque and he's darker than average but his facial features look quite Basque to me.

    I am not convinced that Basques in ancient times were all like him though and that people homogeneously looking like that embarked on a northbound conquest of faraway lands, be it as Bell Beakers or earlier Atlantic seafarers. That would leave the question of where the relatively frequent light features among Basques come from and when exactly they appeared. Considering that they are typically a recessive trait that seems to need some environmental pressure to propagate, my suspicion is that they just spread all across Europe and beyond, becoming more common where the environment favored them, with invasions being less of an important factor.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  1058. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    They got bleached pretty well though.
     
    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell. I maybe have more experience of studying human faces than the average because of my job in the past, but those are different types.

    I wouldn't be surprising if dark British come from more EEF influenced populations from France that re-migrated into Britain in the Iron Age, or later.


    I’m starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning...But maybe I’m seeing too much in this.
     
    It's not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I'm not certain) needs a lot more data points.

    This is a quite weird discussion because I have a lot of Scottish Irish descent, I am dark like Colin Farrell, and when I started going to Lithuania and Belarus I started taking martial arts classes, it felt like I might need it (from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people). My wife and her family also look a lot like Bell Beaker Ava from the reconstruction, it adds an extra layer of weirdness.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

    I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points.

    Of course, we are just guessing here, I didn’t even know or assume she was “Bell Beaker”, she doesn’t look like Ava, she has slightly olive skin and dark hair, but her facial features are very fine (she was much more beautiful than Ava in her prime).

    For example, there are quite a few Scots Irish in the US military, holding pretty high posts.

    from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people

    I know what you mean, if you were there in the early or mid 2000s, then it was still quite brutal there. But that’s not what I meant – I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn’t mean to stereotype your people, I’m going from purely anecdotal evidence, it’s a puzzle I’m trying to solve.

    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/meet-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180959988/

    • Replies: @LatW
    @LatW


    sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports.
     
    Also, this isn't necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Coconuts
    @LatW


    But that’s not what I meant – I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn’t mean to stereotype your people, I’m going from purely anecdotal evidence, it’s a puzzle I’m trying to solve.
     
    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire's 'martial races'... but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.

    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren't from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.


    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:
     

    She does, I saw a few people in Belarus with this sort of phenotype to one degree or another. According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava's people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.

    I think the reconstruction with red hair was an earlier one with less dna evidence, they later modified it after finding out she was dark.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don't know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

  1059. @LatW
    @Coconuts


    I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points.
     
    Of course, we are just guessing here, I didn't even know or assume she was "Bell Beaker", she doesn't look like Ava, she has slightly olive skin and dark hair, but her facial features are very fine (she was much more beautiful than Ava in her prime).

    For example, there are quite a few Scots Irish in the US military, holding pretty high posts.

    from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people
     

    I know what you mean, if you were there in the early or mid 2000s, then it was still quite brutal there. But that's not what I meant - I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn't mean to stereotype your people, I'm going from purely anecdotal evidence, it's a puzzle I'm trying to solve.

    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/meet-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180959988/

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

    sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports.

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    @ LatW & Coconuts


    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points
     

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.
     
    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia. Fatyanovo Culture is the direct link to both the Balto-Slav and the Tatar. The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians and before them in the Vedic and Avestan Aryans who upended BMAC and conquered entire Central Asia, Northern Hindustan and Iran. All these people were quite warlike, just like their descendants were quite warlike. Corded Ware people were not some peaceniks walking around with flowers in their hair. They were quite violent, at the Tollense River, they ambushed and killed the BB war band raiders / settlers and all their servants.



    The difference with the Bell-Beaker folks was not violence itself, but the level and the consistency of directed violence and oppressive social organization that the BB were capable of maintaining for generations. For whatever reason, BB descended folks are more organized, more consistent and more able to impose organization to others through violence if necessary.

    The CWC folks would come in, wreak havoc, plunder, kill and then just say : "okay let's now be friends" and they would really mean it despite having fought and killed the locals just a few years ago, and they would co-exist with the locals in a more or less inclusive way. CWC descended folks are what we call in French bordélique, they don't finish the job, and they don't build large ordered social structures. But they can easily build large, semi-chaotic Empires spanning continents. They are at their best in Hindustani like system of contradictory and balanced complexity where every village is a varna / tribe whatever, but each lineage is known and more or less accepted, even the Dalit.

    But anywhere the BB descended folks settled in sufficient numbers, they imposed a strict order, a stratification and a segregation. I believe that if the BB descended elites were not so much admixed with all and everyone in the last century or so, we most probably wouldn't have the world we live in today. Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon, while Sovok was typically CWC. That is why I am way more afraid of the Globohomo and the Davos Man than I ever was of the Sovok. Consistency and duration of the oppressive action is the key difference. Sovok despite its ugly totalitarian character in the beginning rapidly devolved in the typical CWC "ребята давайте жить дружно" but the Globohomo might well become a new Religion leading to most normal humans ending in the Great Reset "reservations" where they "will own nothing and be happy", somewhat like their long gone ancestors in the BB conquered Old Europe.

    As Klyosov once quipped : "они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать".

    BTW, Klyosov spent a decade unraveling the R1a & R1b conundrum and has a book that is entirely dedicated to the history and the interactions of the two main branches of the Y haplogroup R.

    Почему западноевропейские племена века напролёт враждуют с населением Русской равнины? Точный ответ на этот вопрос стал возможен только в XXI веке с появлением науки ДНК-генеалогии. Оказалось, что наши народы имели в далёком прошлом одного общего предка, но затем разделились на два больших рода, или по-научному, гаплогруппы: R1a и R1b. Гаплогруппа R1b встречается у 50-87% немцев, голландцев, французов, ирландцев, англичан и других европейских народов, и лишь у 5% этнических русских. Географическая граница проживания этих гаплогрупп проходит как раз там, где век за веком шли войны между европейским Западом и европейским Востоком - в Польше, Белоруссии, Прибалтике. Автор данной книги, учёный с мировым именем, основатель науки ДНК-генеалогии профессор Анатолий Клёсов предлагает называть гаплогруппу R1a "ариями" (поскольку именно её представители вторглись когда-то в Индию), а гаплогруппу R1b - "эрбинами" (по созвучию с буквами R и В).
     
    Don't judge the book by its (catchy) cover. It's a worth read.

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/643427/

    Also for a summary of Klyosov's take on R1b read here.

    https://dzen.ru/a/WyhAIDG0VACrJbTB

    Of course this is all generalizations, individuals can act very different from the large groups.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP, @LatW

  1060. @LatW
    @Coconuts


    I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points.
     
    Of course, we are just guessing here, I didn't even know or assume she was "Bell Beaker", she doesn't look like Ava, she has slightly olive skin and dark hair, but her facial features are very fine (she was much more beautiful than Ava in her prime).

    For example, there are quite a few Scots Irish in the US military, holding pretty high posts.

    from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people
     

    I know what you mean, if you were there in the early or mid 2000s, then it was still quite brutal there. But that's not what I meant - I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn't mean to stereotype your people, I'm going from purely anecdotal evidence, it's a puzzle I'm trying to solve.

    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/meet-ava-bronze-age-woman-scottish-highlands-180959988/

    Replies: @LatW, @Coconuts

    But that’s not what I meant – I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn’t mean to stereotype your people, I’m going from purely anecdotal evidence, it’s a puzzle I’m trying to solve.

    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire’s ‘martial races’… but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.

    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren’t from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.

    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:

    She does, I saw a few people in Belarus with this sort of phenotype to one degree or another. According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava’s people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.

    I think the reconstruction with red hair was an earlier one with less dna evidence, they later modified it after finding out she was dark.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don’t know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava’s people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.
     
    No. This is a consistent error between Yamnaya and what came to be called Eastern Bell-Beaker. Yamnaya migrated West, but overall BB migration in Europe was West to East. How they originally appeared as the "Maritime Bell-Beaker" around Gibraltar and in Iberian peninsula is still a puzzle.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don’t know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.
     
    This is indeed a very interesting question. I think we should look into the Northern Sea connection / Doggerland.

    https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/05/doggerland-europes-lost-land/117925

    https://q-mag.org/blood-red-flint-tools-souvenirs-of-doggerland.html

    After the flood, the hunter-gatherer populations of the Doggerland most probably dispersed towards what would become Great Britain, Northern Europe, Fenno-Scandia, Baltics and modern Russia. I think this is how we got the European leucoderm phenotype that helped "bleach up" the Y haplogroup R populations that in their earliest days most probably looked just like their distant cousins of the Amerindian populations. The Fatyanovo CWC folks were 75% dark haired. The ancestors of the Slavs got much lighter through their intermixing with other people that were most probably not Y haplogroup R.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @LatW
    @Coconuts


    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire’s ‘martial races’… but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.
     
    Yes, they are a "martial race" and that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out - why. If this is something where they just found their niche in the British Empire due to some political or cultural reasons, or if there is a deeper, more genetic component to it. Didn't Hitler even admire the Scottish Black Watch?

    Actually, I didn't even mean things such as "drinking and brawling" (the Scots take their liquor very well, unlike poor Eastern Euros who are simply pathetic that way), although these things are known, you know, those Scottish "neds". That's not who I meant, but much more upper class types. However, they can be "militant" in their approach. Efficient, dominant, responsible, very competitive.


    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren’t from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.
     
    She used to run one of these schools (in the US, not the UK). Very efficiently, but not in the way that all her colleagues and subordinates liked. That said, it is easier to dominate other females than males. She also wins semi-professional sports competitions in her age group.

    But you're right, when you look at all the successful Scots Irish people in the US (presidents, etc), they are not necessarily all very dark. They are mostly pictured when grey though, so that might hide their real color, you have to look at their youth photos for that.

    It might be that my acquaintance is some kind of an atavism though (these traits may show only in a few of them). I must say I envy those qualities a bit, they are quite admirable.

  1061. @LatW
    @LatW


    sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports.
     
    Also, this isn't necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    @ LatW & Coconuts

    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.

    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia. Fatyanovo Culture is the direct link to both the Balto-Slav and the Tatar. The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians and before them in the Vedic and Avestan Aryans who upended BMAC and conquered entire Central Asia, Northern Hindustan and Iran. All these people were quite warlike, just like their descendants were quite warlike. Corded Ware people were not some peaceniks walking around with flowers in their hair. They were quite violent, at the Tollense River, they ambushed and killed the BB war band raiders / settlers and all their servants.

    [MORE]

    The difference with the Bell-Beaker folks was not violence itself, but the level and the consistency of directed violence and oppressive social organization that the BB were capable of maintaining for generations. For whatever reason, BB descended folks are more organized, more consistent and more able to impose organization to others through violence if necessary.

    The CWC folks would come in, wreak havoc, plunder, kill and then just say : “okay let’s now be friends” and they would really mean it despite having fought and killed the locals just a few years ago, and they would co-exist with the locals in a more or less inclusive way. CWC descended folks are what we call in French bordélique, they don’t finish the job, and they don’t build large ordered social structures. But they can easily build large, semi-chaotic Empires spanning continents. They are at their best in Hindustani like system of contradictory and balanced complexity where every village is a varna / tribe whatever, but each lineage is known and more or less accepted, even the Dalit.

    But anywhere the BB descended folks settled in sufficient numbers, they imposed a strict order, a stratification and a segregation. I believe that if the BB descended elites were not so much admixed with all and everyone in the last century or so, we most probably wouldn’t have the world we live in today. Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon, while Sovok was typically CWC. That is why I am way more afraid of the Globohomo and the Davos Man than I ever was of the Sovok. Consistency and duration of the oppressive action is the key difference. Sovok despite its ugly totalitarian character in the beginning rapidly devolved in the typical CWC “ребята давайте жить дружно” but the Globohomo might well become a new Religion leading to most normal humans ending in the Great Reset “reservations” where they “will own nothing and be happy”, somewhat like their long gone ancestors in the BB conquered Old Europe.

    As Klyosov once quipped : “они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать”.

    BTW, Klyosov spent a decade unraveling the R1a & R1b conundrum and has a book that is entirely dedicated to the history and the interactions of the two main branches of the Y haplogroup R.

    Почему западноевропейские племена века напролёт враждуют с населением Русской равнины? Точный ответ на этот вопрос стал возможен только в XXI веке с появлением науки ДНК-генеалогии. Оказалось, что наши народы имели в далёком прошлом одного общего предка, но затем разделились на два больших рода, или по-научному, гаплогруппы: R1a и R1b. Гаплогруппа R1b встречается у 50-87% немцев, голландцев, французов, ирландцев, англичан и других европейских народов, и лишь у 5% этнических русских. Географическая граница проживания этих гаплогрупп проходит как раз там, где век за веком шли войны между европейским Западом и европейским Востоком – в Польше, Белоруссии, Прибалтике. Автор данной книги, учёный с мировым именем, основатель науки ДНК-генеалогии профессор Анатолий Клёсов предлагает называть гаплогруппу R1a “ариями” (поскольку именно её представители вторглись когда-то в Индию), а гаплогруппу R1b – “эрбинами” (по созвучию с буквами R и В).

    Don’t judge the book by its (catchy) cover. It’s a worth read.

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/643427/

    Also for a summary of Klyosov’s take on R1b read here.

    https://dzen.ru/a/WyhAIDG0VACrJbTB

    Of course this is all generalizations, individuals can act very different from the large groups.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Isn't it ironic that R1a and R1b are a bit like Abel and Cain story?

    Don't worry Ivashka, God seems to be on R1a (Abel) side, as seen in R1a-favourable weather during Henry II invasions against Poland between 1002-1018 (repeated German incursion into Poland were hampered by heavy rain), 1410 (Grunwald victory with help of sun scorching Germans & allies), Russia 1812, Russia 1941 campaign.

    I only wonder how to see the current Ukrainian conflict, as Ukraine has substantial share (20%+) of Megalithic culture men...? Ukraine in its basic cultural form of Kossacks raiding parties etc, seem to be actually a mixture of I1+I2/R1b influences. Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent - between 8% and 20 %. In the last case, R1b and I coalition would overpower R1a. Also, one difference between Russia and Ukraina is that Russia has fewer I men than Ukraine (in percentage).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Fascinating, but spiritual forces can serve as moderating factors. Places with R1B peoples who have been shaped by Catholicism such as the Spanish world, Italy, Austria, Bavaria are rather pleasant, whereas what you describe as the annihilatory R1B spirit may be more unleashed under conditions of Protestantism (and modern Wokism is a heresy that stems from it).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    , @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia.
     
    When our IE ancestors from Fatyanovo were pushing onto our paternal ancestors (the Finns), they were not just genociding (trying to imagine how this happened in real life), they also assimilated a lot of them. The Baltic people assimilated the Livs, the coastal Finnic people, which was a good thing overall, the Livs are a tall, big boned, Northern Euro looking population that mostly ate fish so they are a good addition to the gene pool. I love them and I wish well on their remaining culture.

    The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians
     
    Then those were our cousins who ended up there and did pretty well. Good for them.

    The Fatyanovo were not mellow people, but quite warlike. As you know very well and as you pointed out.

    But other than that you make fascinating and valid points. As to "finishing the job", the CWC people can simply "take with mass", as they say. This has been done in some cases.

    The R1b were hard or impossible to conquer, but they were partially assimilated by mass. The German Prussia was 30% Baltic. Not all the Old Prussians were genocided (in fact, many of them died in the Great Plague that struck in the 18th century, very unfortunate and sad, if it hadn't been for the damn Plague, there would have been more of them left over). Similarly, not all Baltic Germans were ethnically German - most were, but a considerable portion of them were mixed with locals, or other talented, distinguished or driven individuals from outside who happened to be there (small percentage). Scandinavian countries, too, have a considerable percentage of R1a. So does E. Germany.


    Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon
     
    No one has yet seriously resisted the Woke and the Woke itself has not yet reached the negative tipping points of its consequences upon society. The question is how much of the Woke would stand if it were seriously resisted. That said, your general point is very interesting and valid.

    while Sovok was typically CWC
     
    The Sovok one took "with mass". No need to underestimate the Sovok, as it controlled a large space and was a largely modern society. The CWC ideally should rule with mass and some quality (BB warlike features thrown in), if they produced more people, their culture through their sheer mass would spill over to other societies. But you are right that rigor and discipline and warlike features would still be needed to maintain control and to protect from negative outside influences.

    As Klyosov once quipped : “они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать”.
     
    This is very well put (and quite true). This is what Germany did with the EU (to make sure that it benefits the center of the EU). But again - it doesn't mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1062. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    But that’s not what I meant – I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn’t mean to stereotype your people, I’m going from purely anecdotal evidence, it’s a puzzle I’m trying to solve.
     
    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire's 'martial races'... but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.

    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren't from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.


    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:
     

    She does, I saw a few people in Belarus with this sort of phenotype to one degree or another. According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava's people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.

    I think the reconstruction with red hair was an earlier one with less dna evidence, they later modified it after finding out she was dark.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don't know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava’s people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.

    No. This is a consistent error between Yamnaya and what came to be called Eastern Bell-Beaker. Yamnaya migrated West, but overall BB migration in Europe was West to East. How they originally appeared as the “Maritime Bell-Beaker” around Gibraltar and in Iberian peninsula is still a puzzle.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don’t know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.

    This is indeed a very interesting question. I think we should look into the Northern Sea connection / Doggerland.

    https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/05/doggerland-europes-lost-land/117925

    https://q-mag.org/blood-red-flint-tools-souvenirs-of-doggerland.html

    After the flood, the hunter-gatherer populations of the Doggerland most probably dispersed towards what would become Great Britain, Northern Europe, Fenno-Scandia, Baltics and modern Russia. I think this is how we got the European leucoderm phenotype that helped “bleach up” the Y haplogroup R populations that in their earliest days most probably looked just like their distant cousins of the Amerindian populations. The Fatyanovo CWC folks were 75% dark haired. The ancestors of the Slavs got much lighter through their intermixing with other people that were most probably not Y haplogroup R.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    No. This is a consistent error between Yamnaya and what came to be called Eastern Bell-Beaker. Yamnaya migrated West, but overall BB migration in Europe was West to East. How they originally appeared as the “Maritime Bell-Beaker” around Gibraltar and in Iberian peninsula is still a puzzle.
     
    I am still wondering about how to reconcile with the study I posted early that shows that the people using Bell Beakers fall into genetically distinct groups. The people using Bell Beakers in Iberia were seen to have plenty of Iberian Neolithic ancestry, including the paternal haplogroups, whereas the people using the Beakers who migrated into Britain only had Steppe, Central European Neolithic and WHG, with no identifiable Iberian influences.

    Unless Bell Beaker is seen as a cultural package rather than something closely tied to genetics, so it was a form of social organisation and material culture that spread from Iberia into central and Western Europe and was adopted by originally quite genetically different groups?

    The other idea is very interesting but I will comment later when I have a bit more time.

  1063. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava’s people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.
     
    No. This is a consistent error between Yamnaya and what came to be called Eastern Bell-Beaker. Yamnaya migrated West, but overall BB migration in Europe was West to East. How they originally appeared as the "Maritime Bell-Beaker" around Gibraltar and in Iberian peninsula is still a puzzle.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don’t know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.
     
    This is indeed a very interesting question. I think we should look into the Northern Sea connection / Doggerland.

    https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/05/doggerland-europes-lost-land/117925

    https://q-mag.org/blood-red-flint-tools-souvenirs-of-doggerland.html

    After the flood, the hunter-gatherer populations of the Doggerland most probably dispersed towards what would become Great Britain, Northern Europe, Fenno-Scandia, Baltics and modern Russia. I think this is how we got the European leucoderm phenotype that helped "bleach up" the Y haplogroup R populations that in their earliest days most probably looked just like their distant cousins of the Amerindian populations. The Fatyanovo CWC folks were 75% dark haired. The ancestors of the Slavs got much lighter through their intermixing with other people that were most probably not Y haplogroup R.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    No. This is a consistent error between Yamnaya and what came to be called Eastern Bell-Beaker. Yamnaya migrated West, but overall BB migration in Europe was West to East. How they originally appeared as the “Maritime Bell-Beaker” around Gibraltar and in Iberian peninsula is still a puzzle.

    I am still wondering about how to reconcile with the study I posted early that shows that the people using Bell Beakers fall into genetically distinct groups. The people using Bell Beakers in Iberia were seen to have plenty of Iberian Neolithic ancestry, including the paternal haplogroups, whereas the people using the Beakers who migrated into Britain only had Steppe, Central European Neolithic and WHG, with no identifiable Iberian influences.

    Unless Bell Beaker is seen as a cultural package rather than something closely tied to genetics, so it was a form of social organisation and material culture that spread from Iberia into central and Western Europe and was adopted by originally quite genetically different groups?

    The other idea is very interesting but I will comment later when I have a bit more time.

  1064. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    They got bleached pretty well though.
     
    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell. I maybe have more experience of studying human faces than the average because of my job in the past, but those are different types.

    I wouldn't be surprising if dark British come from more EEF influenced populations from France that re-migrated into Britain in the Iron Age, or later.


    I’m starting to think these tendencies may have survived on some epigenetic level. This is uncanny. My Scots Irish acquaintance displays some of this, of course, not in such an openly brutal way, but it is still stunning...But maybe I’m seeing too much in this.
     
    It's not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I'm not certain) needs a lot more data points.

    This is a quite weird discussion because I have a lot of Scottish Irish descent, I am dark like Colin Farrell, and when I started going to Lithuania and Belarus I started taking martial arts classes, it felt like I might need it (from my pov the culture in Belarus is more alpha and physical than it is in NE England which is full of Scots/Irish descent people). My wife and her family also look a lot like Bell Beaker Ava from the reconstruction, it adds an extra layer of weirdness.

    Replies: @LatW, @Mikel

    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell.

    I also tend to think that linking physical traits automatically to ancient human groups is very iffy. Perhaps all these groups already had a mix of physical traits, just like what we see in contemporary Europeans, where very marked clines exist (eg North-South with light hair) but you find people with very different phenotypes both in Northern and Southern Europe.

    I don’t know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world. This was kind of funny because, at a popular level, people in the Basque Country and Spain found a reason to explain why Basques tend to be lighter than Spaniards whereas the British found the explanation for the swarthy types among them.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate. Light eyes are also relatively common, perhaps 1/4 or 1/3 of people have them. This looks to me like an adaptation to the ecosystem that may have been there for a long time, before the Yamnaya came from the North, culled the male population and gave us the high levels of R1b. But occasionally you find very dark types as well, eg footballer Mikel Arteta, that one could associate with the George Cloney type, based on pigmentation alone:

    As far as I know, Arteta is a pure ethnic Basque. His two surnames are Basque and he’s darker than average but his facial features look quite Basque to me.

    I am not convinced that Basques in ancient times were all like him though and that people homogeneously looking like that embarked on a northbound conquest of faraway lands, be it as Bell Beakers or earlier Atlantic seafarers. That would leave the question of where the relatively frequent light features among Basques come from and when exactly they appeared. Considering that they are typically a recessive trait that seems to need some environmental pressure to propagate, my suspicion is that they just spread all across Europe and beyond, becoming more common where the environment favored them, with invasions being less of an important factor.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    I don’t know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world.
     
    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account. As well as R1b connection, there were also Neolithic Iberian settlements in the south of England who must have arrived by boat from Northern Spain. I feel like I remember reading something about these populations in a newspaper early last decade.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate.
     
    I knew a few Basques at university and wondered about why they looked closer to British people than the other Spanish, who all had similar colouring to Arteta in the photo. You could well be right about the lighter coloured traits emerging at different places where the environment favours them, I seem to remember Galicians and the northern Portuguese being lighter than Spanish people I met from further south and east as well.

    It might be interesting if at some point they find a skull in the Basque country or Northern Spain and are able to attempt a reconstruction as they did with Ava, and see how they compare, and with the modern population.

    Replies: @Mikel

  1065. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    @ LatW & Coconuts


    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points
     

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.
     
    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia. Fatyanovo Culture is the direct link to both the Balto-Slav and the Tatar. The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians and before them in the Vedic and Avestan Aryans who upended BMAC and conquered entire Central Asia, Northern Hindustan and Iran. All these people were quite warlike, just like their descendants were quite warlike. Corded Ware people were not some peaceniks walking around with flowers in their hair. They were quite violent, at the Tollense River, they ambushed and killed the BB war band raiders / settlers and all their servants.



    The difference with the Bell-Beaker folks was not violence itself, but the level and the consistency of directed violence and oppressive social organization that the BB were capable of maintaining for generations. For whatever reason, BB descended folks are more organized, more consistent and more able to impose organization to others through violence if necessary.

    The CWC folks would come in, wreak havoc, plunder, kill and then just say : "okay let's now be friends" and they would really mean it despite having fought and killed the locals just a few years ago, and they would co-exist with the locals in a more or less inclusive way. CWC descended folks are what we call in French bordélique, they don't finish the job, and they don't build large ordered social structures. But they can easily build large, semi-chaotic Empires spanning continents. They are at their best in Hindustani like system of contradictory and balanced complexity where every village is a varna / tribe whatever, but each lineage is known and more or less accepted, even the Dalit.

    But anywhere the BB descended folks settled in sufficient numbers, they imposed a strict order, a stratification and a segregation. I believe that if the BB descended elites were not so much admixed with all and everyone in the last century or so, we most probably wouldn't have the world we live in today. Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon, while Sovok was typically CWC. That is why I am way more afraid of the Globohomo and the Davos Man than I ever was of the Sovok. Consistency and duration of the oppressive action is the key difference. Sovok despite its ugly totalitarian character in the beginning rapidly devolved in the typical CWC "ребята давайте жить дружно" but the Globohomo might well become a new Religion leading to most normal humans ending in the Great Reset "reservations" where they "will own nothing and be happy", somewhat like their long gone ancestors in the BB conquered Old Europe.

    As Klyosov once quipped : "они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать".

    BTW, Klyosov spent a decade unraveling the R1a & R1b conundrum and has a book that is entirely dedicated to the history and the interactions of the two main branches of the Y haplogroup R.

    Почему западноевропейские племена века напролёт враждуют с населением Русской равнины? Точный ответ на этот вопрос стал возможен только в XXI веке с появлением науки ДНК-генеалогии. Оказалось, что наши народы имели в далёком прошлом одного общего предка, но затем разделились на два больших рода, или по-научному, гаплогруппы: R1a и R1b. Гаплогруппа R1b встречается у 50-87% немцев, голландцев, французов, ирландцев, англичан и других европейских народов, и лишь у 5% этнических русских. Географическая граница проживания этих гаплогрупп проходит как раз там, где век за веком шли войны между европейским Западом и европейским Востоком - в Польше, Белоруссии, Прибалтике. Автор данной книги, учёный с мировым именем, основатель науки ДНК-генеалогии профессор Анатолий Клёсов предлагает называть гаплогруппу R1a "ариями" (поскольку именно её представители вторглись когда-то в Индию), а гаплогруппу R1b - "эрбинами" (по созвучию с буквами R и В).
     
    Don't judge the book by its (catchy) cover. It's a worth read.

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/643427/

    Also for a summary of Klyosov's take on R1b read here.

    https://dzen.ru/a/WyhAIDG0VACrJbTB

    Of course this is all generalizations, individuals can act very different from the large groups.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP, @LatW

    Isn’t it ironic that R1a and R1b are a bit like Abel and Cain story?

    Don’t worry Ivashka, God seems to be on R1a (Abel) side, as seen in R1a-favourable weather during Henry II invasions against Poland between 1002-1018 (repeated German incursion into Poland were hampered by heavy rain), 1410 (Grunwald victory with help of sun scorching Germans & allies), Russia 1812, Russia 1941 campaign.

    I only wonder how to see the current Ukrainian conflict, as Ukraine has substantial share (20%+) of Megalithic culture men…? Ukraine in its basic cultural form of Kossacks raiding parties etc, seem to be actually a mixture of I1+I2/R1b influences. Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent – between 8% and 20 %. In the last case, R1b and I coalition would overpower R1a. Also, one difference between Russia and Ukraina is that Russia has fewer I men than Ukraine (in percentage).

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    "B" in R1b could be well explained as "Babel".
    R1b people specialize in building different forms of Babels... the district in Potsdam where German elites live is called Babelsberg (The Mountain of Babel).

    , @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent – between 8% and 20 %
     
    Poland has around 15% R1b.

    I have not seen studies with Ukrainian R1b at 20%. It’s around 10%. I is higher in Ukraine, 25%-30%. Russians have less I and more N.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  1066. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Isn't it ironic that R1a and R1b are a bit like Abel and Cain story?

    Don't worry Ivashka, God seems to be on R1a (Abel) side, as seen in R1a-favourable weather during Henry II invasions against Poland between 1002-1018 (repeated German incursion into Poland were hampered by heavy rain), 1410 (Grunwald victory with help of sun scorching Germans & allies), Russia 1812, Russia 1941 campaign.

    I only wonder how to see the current Ukrainian conflict, as Ukraine has substantial share (20%+) of Megalithic culture men...? Ukraine in its basic cultural form of Kossacks raiding parties etc, seem to be actually a mixture of I1+I2/R1b influences. Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent - between 8% and 20 %. In the last case, R1b and I coalition would overpower R1a. Also, one difference between Russia and Ukraina is that Russia has fewer I men than Ukraine (in percentage).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

    “B” in R1b could be well explained as “Babel”.
    R1b people specialize in building different forms of Babels… the district in Potsdam where German elites live is called Babelsberg (The Mountain of Babel).

  1067. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    @ LatW & Coconuts


    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points
     

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.
     
    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia. Fatyanovo Culture is the direct link to both the Balto-Slav and the Tatar. The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians and before them in the Vedic and Avestan Aryans who upended BMAC and conquered entire Central Asia, Northern Hindustan and Iran. All these people were quite warlike, just like their descendants were quite warlike. Corded Ware people were not some peaceniks walking around with flowers in their hair. They were quite violent, at the Tollense River, they ambushed and killed the BB war band raiders / settlers and all their servants.



    The difference with the Bell-Beaker folks was not violence itself, but the level and the consistency of directed violence and oppressive social organization that the BB were capable of maintaining for generations. For whatever reason, BB descended folks are more organized, more consistent and more able to impose organization to others through violence if necessary.

    The CWC folks would come in, wreak havoc, plunder, kill and then just say : "okay let's now be friends" and they would really mean it despite having fought and killed the locals just a few years ago, and they would co-exist with the locals in a more or less inclusive way. CWC descended folks are what we call in French bordélique, they don't finish the job, and they don't build large ordered social structures. But they can easily build large, semi-chaotic Empires spanning continents. They are at their best in Hindustani like system of contradictory and balanced complexity where every village is a varna / tribe whatever, but each lineage is known and more or less accepted, even the Dalit.

    But anywhere the BB descended folks settled in sufficient numbers, they imposed a strict order, a stratification and a segregation. I believe that if the BB descended elites were not so much admixed with all and everyone in the last century or so, we most probably wouldn't have the world we live in today. Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon, while Sovok was typically CWC. That is why I am way more afraid of the Globohomo and the Davos Man than I ever was of the Sovok. Consistency and duration of the oppressive action is the key difference. Sovok despite its ugly totalitarian character in the beginning rapidly devolved in the typical CWC "ребята давайте жить дружно" but the Globohomo might well become a new Religion leading to most normal humans ending in the Great Reset "reservations" where they "will own nothing and be happy", somewhat like their long gone ancestors in the BB conquered Old Europe.

    As Klyosov once quipped : "они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать".

    BTW, Klyosov spent a decade unraveling the R1a & R1b conundrum and has a book that is entirely dedicated to the history and the interactions of the two main branches of the Y haplogroup R.

    Почему западноевропейские племена века напролёт враждуют с населением Русской равнины? Точный ответ на этот вопрос стал возможен только в XXI веке с появлением науки ДНК-генеалогии. Оказалось, что наши народы имели в далёком прошлом одного общего предка, но затем разделились на два больших рода, или по-научному, гаплогруппы: R1a и R1b. Гаплогруппа R1b встречается у 50-87% немцев, голландцев, французов, ирландцев, англичан и других европейских народов, и лишь у 5% этнических русских. Географическая граница проживания этих гаплогрупп проходит как раз там, где век за веком шли войны между европейским Западом и европейским Востоком - в Польше, Белоруссии, Прибалтике. Автор данной книги, учёный с мировым именем, основатель науки ДНК-генеалогии профессор Анатолий Клёсов предлагает называть гаплогруппу R1a "ариями" (поскольку именно её представители вторглись когда-то в Индию), а гаплогруппу R1b - "эрбинами" (по созвучию с буквами R и В).
     
    Don't judge the book by its (catchy) cover. It's a worth read.

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/643427/

    Also for a summary of Klyosov's take on R1b read here.

    https://dzen.ru/a/WyhAIDG0VACrJbTB

    Of course this is all generalizations, individuals can act very different from the large groups.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP, @LatW

    Fascinating, but spiritual forces can serve as moderating factors. Places with R1B peoples who have been shaped by Catholicism such as the Spanish world, Italy, Austria, Bavaria are rather pleasant, whereas what you describe as the annihilatory R1B spirit may be more unleashed under conditions of Protestantism (and modern Wokism is a heresy that stems from it).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth. Including the R1a rich Pashtoo of Afghanistan descended from the Hephtalite (White) Huns. After all, Pashtunwali is quite admirable:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

    😉

    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh, the only amazing thing about them is how stubbornly consistent they were in their domineering warrior behavior. As LatW wrote, although cruel, it is nevertheless admirable. And most my interactions with the Westerners were not bad at all, me having spent half my life among them. We are different in our psychology, but we are neither better than each other, nor incompatible.

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP


    annihilatory R1B spirit

     

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed. So often nationalities with the haplogroups can be many times less descended from the population that had those haplogroups, than a population without the haplogroups. You know Central Africans vs. Ukrainians in this example.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory?

    Even if you have genetically same people (which is not in this example of haplogroups on Y-chromosome from prehistory), in the same culture (which is not the same in your example), in the same historical epoch (which is not the same in your example) they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943), or like North Koreans and South Koreans today.

    Then you don't have much knowledge of how the ancient people behaved, to say they were unusually violent or not relative to their situation (which we don't know). You don't have the same variables in explaiing their behavior, different culture, geopolitics, social organization etc, today than in their time, . You don't have genetically similar populations to that time. And you don't have genetically different behavior explaining things you want to explain (i.e. where is evidence that Protestantism restricting to certain genetics, that would be necessary before you even begin the hypothesis).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

  1068. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    Isn't it ironic that R1a and R1b are a bit like Abel and Cain story?

    Don't worry Ivashka, God seems to be on R1a (Abel) side, as seen in R1a-favourable weather during Henry II invasions against Poland between 1002-1018 (repeated German incursion into Poland were hampered by heavy rain), 1410 (Grunwald victory with help of sun scorching Germans & allies), Russia 1812, Russia 1941 campaign.

    I only wonder how to see the current Ukrainian conflict, as Ukraine has substantial share (20%+) of Megalithic culture men...? Ukraine in its basic cultural form of Kossacks raiding parties etc, seem to be actually a mixture of I1+I2/R1b influences. Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent - between 8% and 20 %. In the last case, R1b and I coalition would overpower R1a. Also, one difference between Russia and Ukraina is that Russia has fewer I men than Ukraine (in percentage).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP

    Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent – between 8% and 20 %

    Poland has around 15% R1b.

    I have not seen studies with Ukrainian R1b at 20%. It’s around 10%. I is higher in Ukraine, 25%-30%. Russians have less I and more N.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Poland is the world capital of R1a - they have almost 60% share here.

    As for Ukraine, the article below claims "limited inbreeding" for Ukraine. Even though it does not divide per haplotypes, I would bet that among males, I men are the most inbred part of Ukraine, as that would be a legacy of their origins in megalithic culture.

    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.

    https://academic.oup.com/gigascience/article/10/1/giaa159/6079618

    Replies: @AP

  1069. @Yevardian
    @German_reader


    Haven’t read anything on your list. Once tried to read Peter Green’s Alexander to Actium, but tbh I found it unreadable, couldn’t stand the author’s persona at all.
    How can one write an entire book about Eumenes given the limited sources?
     
    What did you find irritating about Peter Green specifically? I mostly read Green's popular biography on Alexander on Badian's recommendation, in the middle of a notorious review which trashed Robin-Lane Fox's Alexander biography.
    Green's book didn't stand out or anything but I didn't mind it, I certainly never got the impression he injected contemporary politics into his work or anything like that. Still not comparable to Tarn's prose or Badian or Bosworth's scholarship on Alexander, obviously.

    Anyway, I mentioned Badian before, but I'll say again, his essays on antiquity are still the most enjoyable I've ever read. Since you read Thucydides relatively recently (first time?) I'd mention I finished Badian's Collected Essays on the Pentekontaitia a few weeks ago, he really takes down the still overwhelmingly popular notion that Thucydides was 'the measure of scientific objectivity in history'.
    Badian compares Thucydides several times to contemporary journalists, in that as he wrote about events within the living memory of thousands, it was impossible for him to outright lie about anything, although its demonstrated that Thucyides constantly drew a tendentious narrative through techniques like omission, implying although not actually stating events happening in certain order, artful arrangement of his book's content, and so on.
    Badian has a few respectful criticisms of Ron Unz's published work on the same period as well, incidentally.

    I don't know how deep you've gone into Greco-Roman history, but 'poor sources' are really a genre defining feature. By the standards of the Hellenistic period at least, Eumenes' life isn't that scantily attested, in addition to Plutarch's Eumenes, he also appears sporadically in Plutarch's Demetrios/Alexander, as well as the authors Diodoros, Polyainos, Arrian and Curtius.

    Although Anson does include in his Eumenes book two full closing chapters discussing Greek versus Makedonian ethno-cultural identity, tangentially tying it Eumenes' own navigation of this field. Sounds like filler but they were actually quite good parts of his book in their own right.


    Regarding books, I’ve read the book about Stepan Bandera and his cult I mentioned last year (Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, Stepan Bandera. The life and afterlife of a Ukrainian nationalist. Fascism, genocide and cult).
     
    I might check it out, although honestly I'd prefer to first read something authoritative on Ukraine's years post 1991 into at least the mid 2010's, a deep look into its post-Soviet collapse, the infighting between its political clans and so on.

    I forgot to mention that 'Modern Mexico' book from 1914 before posting, so I can't write much here. Yes, it was a very curious book, obviously written just before WWI, during the Mexican civil war, which at least until August 1914, was perhaps the number one item on the USA's foreign policy agenda.
    There's actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book's conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at 'the Mexican Mestizo race' sprinkled throughout that I'm sure songbird and Beckow would love.

    I don't visit here that much these days. Maybe you'd be open to sending a private contact, as I'll likely be visiting friends/family in Europe next year.

    I'll leave a junk email ([email protected]) here, you can send me an email there to contact you from different email address afterwards if you like.

    Replies: @German_reader, @songbird

    There’s actually talk about further US annexation of northern Mexican states near the book’s conclusion, which talks about the idea as if it was a topic of serious government discussion at that time. There were also a ton of racist stereotypes directed at ‘the Mexican Mestizo race’ sprinkled throughout that I’m sure songbird and Beckow would love.

    There were a fair number of Americans in Northern Mexico, before Pancho Villa helped to destabilize the area. They were the big ranchers.

    Not saying it would have necessarily been a bad idea to try to consolidate the border along a shorter line, accept the Mestizos in the highlands, while keeping out the Mayans in the South, (hard to see a worse scenario than current) but I’m not sure that advocates for American expansion really understood patterns of growth. Population of Mexico increased to about 10x since 1895.

    Imagine a lot of advocates of colonies in Africa didn’t really grasp the same phenomenon, until much later. IIRC, more babies were born in Nigeria last year, than in Europe. Of course, TFR is below replacement in Mexico now, and nobody really predicted that.

  1070. I am still wondering about how to reconcile with the study I posted early that shows that the people using Bell Beakers fall into genetically distinct groups. The people using Bell Beakers in Iberia were seen to have plenty of Iberian Neolithic ancestry, including the paternal haplogroups, whereas the people using the Beakers who migrated into Britain only had Steppe, Central European Neolithic and WHG, with no identifiable Iberian influences.

    Mostly male warrior elite with genetics being rapidly diluted through mating with local females. First generation: 100% BB, but after 4 generations it would be barely detectable. However, the Y haplogroup still would be the same.

    Moreover, imagine each of these warriors having access to a harem of female retinue producing a couple dozen offspring on each generation – that’s a founder effect explaining the Y haplogroup R1b replacement of other male haplogroups. Moreover, the higher hierarchical elite individuals might have mated with the more pure blood BB descended females, while the lower hierarchical individuals might have only had the access to the conquered females, MC or CWC. And finally, given the warrior and conqueror ethos of the BB folks, it is probable that among their offspring, some would have been selected into the War Band brotherhood, while others wouldn’t have passed the rites of passage or the test of strength or whatever cultural religious trial and ordeal they imposed upon their members (killing some commoner woman and/or child in cold blood as a sacrifice around their sacred enclosures ?) and would have been left among the heavily admixed commoners. In the Tollense River battle some warriors had genetics that matched Iberian peninsula, but most people killed there would have been similar to Central Europeans. That battle happened centuries after the BB conquest of the Iberian peninsula.

    Unless Bell Beaker is seen as a cultural package rather than something closely tied to genetics, so it was a form of social organisation and material culture that spread from Iberia into central and Western Europe and was adopted by originally quite genetically different groups?

    A cultural and a social package centered upon the dominant ruthless warrior elite. Genetically diluted after many generations, but keeping the same cultural complex and the same social organization through a consistent application of organized violence. Y haplogroup R1b staying the same as the founders and supplanting the other conquered male populations through a priority access to females. When it ended completely diluted after several centuries and the neighboring folks (mostly CWC) became sufficiently strong to resist and perhaps even to attempt some Reconquista, then it ended up in a more harmonious coexistence under the Unetice Culture, and after its fragmentation under the proto-Italo – Celtic and proto – Balto-Slav local subvariants. But the Y haplogroup R1a ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool


    But the Y haplogroup R1a ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.
     
    Should read:

    But the Y haplogroup R1b ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.
    , @Coconuts
    @Ivashka the fool


    Mostly male warrior elite with genetics being rapidly diluted through mating with local females.
     
    I was thinking more of data or discoveries, say to undermine this point that the authors of that study put forward:

    The expansion of the Beaker Complex cannot be described by a simple one-to-one mapping of an archaeologically defined material culture to a genetically homogeneous population. This stands in contrast to other archaeological complexes, notably the Linearbandkeramik first farmers of central Europe2, the Early Bronze Age Yamnaya of the Steppe2,3, and to some extent the Corded Ware Complex of central and eastern Europe.
     
    Because the 'out of Iberia' argument about R-M269 seems to assume that this one to one relationship between the Beakers and a genetically homogenous population (at least in terms of presence of R-M269) always holds true?



    From what I can gather at the moment it looks like there would have to have been a larger population of these people in Northern Africa around 3000 BC, then they move to Iberia, then they move out of Iberia without proliferating much or conquering it, instead making alliances with males of other haplogroups while transmitting their culture to them. A small number of Steppe ancestry people would be left behind in Iberia while the larger group left to conquer Europe.

    Or else there was only ever small numbers of Steppe ancestry R-M269 in North Africa and Iberia, they initially made alliances with locals and transmitted their culture before only Steppe ancestry males (I guess R-M269 carriers) left as a kind of small group of warriors, leaving some other group behind. The small group that left then used their dominance and spirit of conquest to rapidly spread across Central and Western Europe. This would all be 3000-2500 BC period?

    What I was wondering is what kind of data and studies exist to show accounts like this are more accurate than the others given for the movements of R-M269 carriers in Europe?
  1071. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Fascinating, but spiritual forces can serve as moderating factors. Places with R1B peoples who have been shaped by Catholicism such as the Spanish world, Italy, Austria, Bavaria are rather pleasant, whereas what you describe as the annihilatory R1B spirit may be more unleashed under conditions of Protestantism (and modern Wokism is a heresy that stems from it).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth. Including the R1a rich Pashtoo of Afghanistan descended from the Hephtalite (White) Huns. After all, Pashtunwali is quite admirable:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

    😉

    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh, the only amazing thing about them is how stubbornly consistent they were in their domineering warrior behavior. As LatW wrote, although cruel, it is nevertheless admirable. And most my interactions with the Westerners were not bad at all, me having spent half my life among them. We are different in our psychology, but we are neither better than each other, nor incompatible.

    • Replies: @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool


    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh
     
    Heard some people put it that it was the R1a folks who murdered them all in their home country. 😉

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth.
     
    Life under Catholic Hapsburgs was better for Slavs than under Russia (although Russia was heavily ruled by Protestant German converts). But under Protestant Hohenzollerns this wasn't the case. Nor did the Baltic Germans or Germans in the tsars' service seem to be particularly nice to others. Biron was a nightmare for the Slavs he ruled over:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Johann_von_Biron

    Protestantism may maximize the negative features of R1b you mentioned.


    The Council of the Empire attempted to secure from Anna an aristocratic constitution, but she crushed the powerful nobility, notably the Dolgorukis and the Galitsins, and placed her reliance exclusively on Biron, who became for all practical purposes the ruler of the Empire. His ascendancy over the empress was unshakable, and whenever required, Biron's enemies and rivals were swept out of the way quite literally; he is said to have caused over 1000 executions, while the number of persons exiled by him to Siberia is estimated at between 20,000–40,000. Meanwhile, the common people were ground down by taxation. Russians have described this reign as the Bironovshchina and the "German yoke." Nevertheless, he showed himself an administrator of considerable ability, and maintained order in the Empire at a time when troubles could have been expected, because the main Romanov line was now extinct, and even the empress did not have children or definite heirs.

    During the latter years of Anna's reign in Russia, Biron increased enormously in power and riches. His apartments in the palace adjoined those of the empress, and his liveries, furniture and equipages were scarcely less expensive or splendid than hers. The magnificence of his plate astonished the French ambassador, and the diamonds of his duchess were the envy of princes. A special department of state looked after his brood mares and stallions. He had landed estates everywhere. Half the bribes intended for the Russian court passed through his coffers

    Replies: @LatW

  1072. @Ivashka the fool

    I am still wondering about how to reconcile with the study I posted early that shows that the people using Bell Beakers fall into genetically distinct groups. The people using Bell Beakers in Iberia were seen to have plenty of Iberian Neolithic ancestry, including the paternal haplogroups, whereas the people using the Beakers who migrated into Britain only had Steppe, Central European Neolithic and WHG, with no identifiable Iberian influences.
     
    Mostly male warrior elite with genetics being rapidly diluted through mating with local females. First generation: 100% BB, but after 4 generations it would be barely detectable. However, the Y haplogroup still would be the same.

    Moreover, imagine each of these warriors having access to a harem of female retinue producing a couple dozen offspring on each generation - that's a founder effect explaining the Y haplogroup R1b replacement of other male haplogroups. Moreover, the higher hierarchical elite individuals might have mated with the more pure blood BB descended females, while the lower hierarchical individuals might have only had the access to the conquered females, MC or CWC. And finally, given the warrior and conqueror ethos of the BB folks, it is probable that among their offspring, some would have been selected into the War Band brotherhood, while others wouldn't have passed the rites of passage or the test of strength or whatever cultural religious trial and ordeal they imposed upon their members (killing some commoner woman and/or child in cold blood as a sacrifice around their sacred enclosures ?) and would have been left among the heavily admixed commoners. In the Tollense River battle some warriors had genetics that matched Iberian peninsula, but most people killed there would have been similar to Central Europeans. That battle happened centuries after the BB conquest of the Iberian peninsula.

    Unless Bell Beaker is seen as a cultural package rather than something closely tied to genetics, so it was a form of social organisation and material culture that spread from Iberia into central and Western Europe and was adopted by originally quite genetically different groups?

     

    A cultural and a social package centered upon the dominant ruthless warrior elite. Genetically diluted after many generations, but keeping the same cultural complex and the same social organization through a consistent application of organized violence. Y haplogroup R1b staying the same as the founders and supplanting the other conquered male populations through a priority access to females. When it ended completely diluted after several centuries and the neighboring folks (mostly CWC) became sufficiently strong to resist and perhaps even to attempt some Reconquista, then it ended up in a more harmonious coexistence under the Unetice Culture, and after its fragmentation under the proto-Italo - Celtic and proto - Balto-Slav local subvariants. But the Y haplogroup R1a ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    But the Y haplogroup R1a ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.

    Should read:

    But the Y haplogroup R1b ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.

  1073. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth. Including the R1a rich Pashtoo of Afghanistan descended from the Hephtalite (White) Huns. After all, Pashtunwali is quite admirable:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

    😉

    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh, the only amazing thing about them is how stubbornly consistent they were in their domineering warrior behavior. As LatW wrote, although cruel, it is nevertheless admirable. And most my interactions with the Westerners were not bad at all, me having spent half my life among them. We are different in our psychology, but we are neither better than each other, nor incompatible.

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh

    Heard some people put it that it was the R1a folks who murdered them all in their home country. 😉

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    Oh, yeah, like muh Circassians weeping about their Adhygea lost to Russian conquest, while there is still nearly 750 000 of them living in RusFed and they probably not even numbering that many in the mid nineteenth century. Truly the R1a folks just never finish the job.

    They lack consistency and discipline which are needed to perfect anything, genocide included. The amazing thing about the BB folks was just how consistent they were for a few centuries, especially given that it was the early Bronze Age. That's extraordinary. I wish we could look into their non-diluted genetics (which is now impossible because they are all quite admixed, Basque people included) and see just what made them such monomaniacs.

    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.

    (Just kidding... 🙂)

    Replies: @LatW

  1074. @songbird
    @Ivashka the fool


    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh
     
    Heard some people put it that it was the R1a folks who murdered them all in their home country. 😉

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Oh, yeah, like muh Circassians weeping about their Adhygea lost to Russian conquest, while there is still nearly 750 000 of them living in RusFed and they probably not even numbering that many in the mid nineteenth century. Truly the R1a folks just never finish the job.

    They lack consistency and discipline which are needed to perfect anything, genocide included. The amazing thing about the BB folks was just how consistent they were for a few centuries, especially given that it was the early Bronze Age. That’s extraordinary. I wish we could look into their non-diluted genetics (which is now impossible because they are all quite admixed, Basque people included) and see just what made them such monomaniacs.

    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.

    (Just kidding… 🙂)

    • LOL: songbird
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.
     
    Tempting idea, but, imo, not worth it, it'd be too horrific, unseemly. Who would want their kids to live in such a world? Not all consequences (negative side effects) of such behaviors are immediately apparent. It wouldn't be good for the world. But it may be good for the defense of the R1as though (which might be worth it).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1075. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Even if share of R1a in Ukraine is around 40%, the data on share of R1b are divergent – between 8% and 20 %
     
    Poland has around 15% R1b.

    I have not seen studies with Ukrainian R1b at 20%. It’s around 10%. I is higher in Ukraine, 25%-30%. Russians have less I and more N.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Poland is the world capital of R1a – they have almost 60% share here.

    As for Ukraine, the article below claims “limited inbreeding” for Ukraine. Even though it does not divide per haplotypes, I would bet that among males, I men are the most inbred part of Ukraine, as that would be a legacy of their origins in megalithic culture.

    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.

    https://academic.oup.com/gigascience/article/10/1/giaa159/6079618

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.
     
    Not according to the article:

    https://i.imgur.com/LhSxomn.png

    Moldovans are closest to Croats and Hungarians. Ukrainians are closest to Poles, though they are closer to Moldovans than Poles are. The Ukranian sample is very large, some are like Moldovans and others are like Poles but most are in between and closer to the Polish average.

    Interesting to see that Estonians are very similar to Russians, and rather different from Finns.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ferraro

  1076. @Ivashka the fool
    @AP

    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth. Including the R1a rich Pashtoo of Afghanistan descended from the Hephtalite (White) Huns. After all, Pashtunwali is quite admirable:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

    😉

    I am writing this to make clear that I do not see R1b BB folks as some demons in the flesh, the only amazing thing about them is how stubbornly consistent they were in their domineering warrior behavior. As LatW wrote, although cruel, it is nevertheless admirable. And most my interactions with the Westerners were not bad at all, me having spent half my life among them. We are different in our psychology, but we are neither better than each other, nor incompatible.

    Replies: @songbird, @AP

    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth.

    Life under Catholic Hapsburgs was better for Slavs than under Russia (although Russia was heavily ruled by Protestant German converts). But under Protestant Hohenzollerns this wasn’t the case. Nor did the Baltic Germans or Germans in the tsars’ service seem to be particularly nice to others. Biron was a nightmare for the Slavs he ruled over:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Johann_von_Biron

    Protestantism may maximize the negative features of R1b you mentioned.

    The Council of the Empire attempted to secure from Anna an aristocratic constitution, but she crushed the powerful nobility, notably the Dolgorukis and the Galitsins, and placed her reliance exclusively on Biron, who became for all practical purposes the ruler of the Empire. His ascendancy over the empress was unshakable, and whenever required, Biron’s enemies and rivals were swept out of the way quite literally; he is said to have caused over 1000 executions, while the number of persons exiled by him to Siberia is estimated at between 20,000–40,000. Meanwhile, the common people were ground down by taxation. Russians have described this reign as the Bironovshchina and the “German yoke.” Nevertheless, he showed himself an administrator of considerable ability, and maintained order in the Empire at a time when troubles could have been expected, because the main Romanov line was now extinct, and even the empress did not have children or definite heirs.

    During the latter years of Anna’s reign in Russia, Biron increased enormously in power and riches. His apartments in the palace adjoined those of the empress, and his liveries, furniture and equipages were scarcely less expensive or splendid than hers. The magnificence of his plate astonished the French ambassador, and the diamonds of his duchess were the envy of princes. A special department of state looked after his brood mares and stallions. He had landed estates everywhere. Half the bribes intended for the Russian court passed through his coffers

    • Replies: @LatW
    @AP

    Biron's residence in Latvia. The Rundale Palace. It was recently restored. Designed by the famous Rastrelli. Popular for visits, high end dinners, classical music concerts and weddings these days, at the end of the video you can see the bird's eye view of the palace garden:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imFFvgtjHlo

  1077. @Coconuts
    @LatW


    But that’s not what I meant – I meant sheer competitiveness in professional and in personal relationships and in sports. I didn’t mean to stereotype your people, I’m going from purely anecdotal evidence, it’s a puzzle I’m trying to solve.
     
    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire's 'martial races'... but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.

    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren't from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.


    Btw, Svetlana Tichanovskaya looks a little like Ava.

    But it looks like there is another reconstruction of her, this one with red hair and blue eyes:
     

    She does, I saw a few people in Belarus with this sort of phenotype to one degree or another. According to that Eupedia source and wiki Ava's people were in central Europe/Hungary before they came westwards, there could be some connection there.

    I think the reconstruction with red hair was an earlier one with less dna evidence, they later modified it after finding out she was dark.

    OT I wonder if this is how ginger haired people entered Scotland? Scotland rivals with Udmurtia in quantity of ginger people but I don't know if this is separate evolution or some distant connection.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @LatW

    It is true that Scottish-Irish people often are linked to anti-social behaviour (drinking, fighting etc.) within the UK and I think in America. Highland Scots used to be famous as one of the British Empire’s ‘martial races’… but I think usually the end result of this is more similar to what you can see in E. Europe, where people drink too much and get into brawls.

    Yes, they are a “martial race” and that’s exactly what I’m trying to figure out – why. If this is something where they just found their niche in the British Empire due to some political or cultural reasons, or if there is a deeper, more genetic component to it. Didn’t Hitler even admire the Scottish Black Watch?

    Actually, I didn’t even mean things such as “drinking and brawling” (the Scots take their liquor very well, unlike poor Eastern Euros who are simply pathetic that way), although these things are known, you know, those Scottish “neds”. That’s not who I meant, but much more upper class types. However, they can be “militant” in their approach. Efficient, dominant, responsible, very competitive.

    This competitive person you have met is interesting. It is a trait I associate with the British upper classes and elites, when I was around some people from that group this was one of the noticeable things compared to people who weren’t from the same background. In my experience people who have been to fee paying schools in the UK are often more like this. The culture in them seems to cultivate this trait.

    She used to run one of these schools (in the US, not the UK). Very efficiently, but not in the way that all her colleagues and subordinates liked. That said, it is easier to dominate other females than males. She also wins semi-professional sports competitions in her age group.

    But you’re right, when you look at all the successful Scots Irish people in the US (presidents, etc), they are not necessarily all very dark. They are mostly pictured when grey though, so that might hide their real color, you have to look at their youth photos for that.

    It might be that my acquaintance is some kind of an atavism though (these traits may show only in a few of them). I must say I envy those qualities a bit, they are quite admirable.

  1078. @Ivashka the fool
    @songbird

    Oh, yeah, like muh Circassians weeping about their Adhygea lost to Russian conquest, while there is still nearly 750 000 of them living in RusFed and they probably not even numbering that many in the mid nineteenth century. Truly the R1a folks just never finish the job.

    They lack consistency and discipline which are needed to perfect anything, genocide included. The amazing thing about the BB folks was just how consistent they were for a few centuries, especially given that it was the early Bronze Age. That's extraordinary. I wish we could look into their non-diluted genetics (which is now impossible because they are all quite admixed, Basque people included) and see just what made them such monomaniacs.

    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.

    (Just kidding... 🙂)

    Replies: @LatW

    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.

    Tempting idea, but, imo, not worth it, it’d be too horrific, unseemly. Who would want their kids to live in such a world? Not all consequences (negative side effects) of such behaviors are immediately apparent. It wouldn’t be good for the world. But it may be good for the defense of the R1as though (which might be worth it).

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    LatW, it was a joke and I was being flippant. I don't think genociding anyone or even just dominating other people gets anybody karmic bonus points. What goes around eventually comes around. I personally am not fond at all the Imperial Russian experience, I think it didn't truly benefit most Russians. Same thing about the Soviet System. The Noviop benefitted most, then Natsmen and Russian Vanya always went last.

    I also wish we were as neutral and self-centered as the Swiss. Russia should have written mandatory neutrality in its constitution with an automatic nuclear response if ever attacked. No more taking sides in any conflicts other than self-defense.

    And instead of protecting the putinist fake and gay Русский мир in Ukraine, I would have simply provided for an automatic Russian citizenship and dual citizenship for any Ukrainian citizen that would have wanted to move up East.

    All those who love Russian language and culture would have eventually left Ukraine and they were around 40% of its population before 2014. Others would have gone West to EU, and the Ukrainian conundrum would have been solved without a single bullet fired.

    Same thing about the Russian minorities in the other republics, automatic citizenship & dual citizenship, plus a one time financial help for repatriation.

    Instead they preferred importing Чурки...

    Replies: @LatW

  1079. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Poland is the world capital of R1a - they have almost 60% share here.

    As for Ukraine, the article below claims "limited inbreeding" for Ukraine. Even though it does not divide per haplotypes, I would bet that among males, I men are the most inbred part of Ukraine, as that would be a legacy of their origins in megalithic culture.

    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.

    https://academic.oup.com/gigascience/article/10/1/giaa159/6079618

    Replies: @AP

    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.

    Not according to the article:

    Moldovans are closest to Croats and Hungarians. Ukrainians are closest to Poles, though they are closer to Moldovans than Poles are. The Ukranian sample is very large, some are like Moldovans and others are like Poles but most are in between and closer to the Polish average.

    Interesting to see that Estonians are very similar to Russians, and rather different from Finns.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    According to the article:

    https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/223682136/giaa159fig2.jpg

    I also double-checked with general statistics for Moldova, and yes it is closer to Ukraine, since their respective shares of genetic types are similar. Poland has almost 20% more of R1a than Ukraine and Moldova, and unlike them, lacks substantial input from I2 Megalithic cultures men.
    But Ukraine is closer to Poland than Russia.

    I am anyway curious how I2-only country would look like (the highest share of them, 50%, has Bosnia).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    , @Ferraro
    @AP

    If you want to know where Ukrainians are relative to some other Europeans, this article is really good: https://razib.substack.com/p/getting-a-sense-of-the-russian-soul

    Basically, Ukrainians and Poles are extremely close genetically, both are very close genetically to Germans, and I've seen other studies showing East Germans in particular as being extremely close to Hungarians and West Slavs like Czechs and Poles. Both Ukrainians and Poles are homogeneous Slavic populations, while Russians are Slavic with a lot of Finnic admixture in the North and some Tatar admixture in the East.

    The fact that Ukrainians are so genetically close to Poles is at least in theory good news for Ukraine's future economic development, if Ukraine manages to solve its problems and utilize the high human capital of its population appropriately.

    All three East Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) have very good PISA results for their level of income and educational expenditure, but all three seem to suffer from serious institutional quality weakness brought about by low levels of social cooperation, solving this social coordination problem in order to develop will be the challenge for Ukraine.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  1080. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    Imo there is some problem with linking people who look like Ava, the Bell Beaker woman discovered in Scotland, with someone who looks like George Clooney or Colin Farrell.
     
    I also tend to think that linking physical traits automatically to ancient human groups is very iffy. Perhaps all these groups already had a mix of physical traits, just like what we see in contemporary Europeans, where very marked clines exist (eg North-South with light hair) but you find people with very different phenotypes both in Northern and Southern Europe.

    I don't know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world. This was kind of funny because, at a popular level, people in the Basque Country and Spain found a reason to explain why Basques tend to be lighter than Spaniards whereas the British found the explanation for the swarthy types among them.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate. Light eyes are also relatively common, perhaps 1/4 or 1/3 of people have them. This looks to me like an adaptation to the ecosystem that may have been there for a long time, before the Yamnaya came from the North, culled the male population and gave us the high levels of R1b. But occasionally you find very dark types as well, eg footballer Mikel Arteta, that one could associate with the George Cloney type, based on pigmentation alone:

    https://d2x51gyc4ptf2q.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2022/11/12115213/Mikel-Arteta-Arsenal-F365-2022-11-12T115208.079.jpg

    As far as I know, Arteta is a pure ethnic Basque. His two surnames are Basque and he's darker than average but his facial features look quite Basque to me.

    I am not convinced that Basques in ancient times were all like him though and that people homogeneously looking like that embarked on a northbound conquest of faraway lands, be it as Bell Beakers or earlier Atlantic seafarers. That would leave the question of where the relatively frequent light features among Basques come from and when exactly they appeared. Considering that they are typically a recessive trait that seems to need some environmental pressure to propagate, my suspicion is that they just spread all across Europe and beyond, becoming more common where the environment favored them, with invasions being less of an important factor.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    I don’t know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world.

    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account. As well as R1b connection, there were also Neolithic Iberian settlements in the south of England who must have arrived by boat from Northern Spain. I feel like I remember reading something about these populations in a newspaper early last decade.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate.

    I knew a few Basques at university and wondered about why they looked closer to British people than the other Spanish, who all had similar colouring to Arteta in the photo. You could well be right about the lighter coloured traits emerging at different places where the environment favours them, I seem to remember Galicians and the northern Portuguese being lighter than Spanish people I met from further south and east as well.

    It might be interesting if at some point they find a skull in the Basque country or Northern Spain and are able to attempt a reconstruction as they did with Ava, and see how they compare, and with the modern population.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.
     
    I don't think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We've all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn't have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven't received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka's narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka's view (I'm not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let's assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can't use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

  1081. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    Perhaps some CRISPR editing might then be used to turn R1a CWC descended folks into something similar and conquer the World.
     
    Tempting idea, but, imo, not worth it, it'd be too horrific, unseemly. Who would want their kids to live in such a world? Not all consequences (negative side effects) of such behaviors are immediately apparent. It wouldn't be good for the world. But it may be good for the defense of the R1as though (which might be worth it).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    LatW, it was a joke and I was being flippant. I don’t think genociding anyone or even just dominating other people gets anybody karmic bonus points. What goes around eventually comes around. I personally am not fond at all the Imperial Russian experience, I think it didn’t truly benefit most Russians. Same thing about the Soviet System. The Noviop benefitted most, then Natsmen and Russian Vanya always went last.

    [MORE]

    I also wish we were as neutral and self-centered as the Swiss. Russia should have written mandatory neutrality in its constitution with an automatic nuclear response if ever attacked. No more taking sides in any conflicts other than self-defense.

    And instead of protecting the putinist fake and gay Русский мир in Ukraine, I would have simply provided for an automatic Russian citizenship and dual citizenship for any Ukrainian citizen that would have wanted to move up East.

    All those who love Russian language and culture would have eventually left Ukraine and they were around 40% of its population before 2014. Others would have gone West to EU, and the Ukrainian conundrum would have been solved without a single bullet fired.

    Same thing about the Russian minorities in the other republics, automatic citizenship & dual citizenship, plus a one time financial help for repatriation.

    Instead they preferred importing Чурки…

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    I personally am not fond at all the Imperial Russian experience, I think it didn’t truly benefit most Russians. Same thing about the Soviet System.
     
    This is one of the things I really like about you (even though my animus towards the Russian Empire isn't even that strong, it was a long time ago and there were some positives as well).

    I also wish we were as neutral and self-centered as the Swiss. Russia should have written mandatory neutrality in its constitution with an automatic nuclear response if ever attacked. No more taking sides in any conflicts other than self-defense.
     
    That would be pretty cool, since you already have all the necessary resources. You would be like a large Switzerland (or a large Norway without NATO membership).

    And instead of protecting the putinist fake and gay Русский мир in Ukraine, I would have simply provided for an automatic Russian citizenship and dual citizenship for any Ukrainian citizen that would have wanted to move up East.
     
    I agree (the repatriation program is too weak, not enforced vigorously enough). Plus, those Russophones are productive and essentially now end up working for countries that are not Russia friendly. But that's not what the Kremlin wants, they want control over Ukraine or at least large parts of it.

    Instead they preferred importing Чурки…
     
    They want to make money and quickly. So they need them.
  1082. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    @ LatW & Coconuts


    It’s not impossible. I think some hypothesis is needed, because continuity from Bell Beaker complex culture influencing Scottish-Irish people today, making them uniquely warlike or brutal compared to other Europeans (particularly compared to carriers of haplogroup R1a? This seems to be the underlying hypothesis, but I’m not certain) needs a lot more data points
     

    Also, this isn’t necessarily negative, these are good qualities that help one succeed.
     
    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia. Fatyanovo Culture is the direct link to both the Balto-Slav and the Tatar. The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians and before them in the Vedic and Avestan Aryans who upended BMAC and conquered entire Central Asia, Northern Hindustan and Iran. All these people were quite warlike, just like their descendants were quite warlike. Corded Ware people were not some peaceniks walking around with flowers in their hair. They were quite violent, at the Tollense River, they ambushed and killed the BB war band raiders / settlers and all their servants.



    The difference with the Bell-Beaker folks was not violence itself, but the level and the consistency of directed violence and oppressive social organization that the BB were capable of maintaining for generations. For whatever reason, BB descended folks are more organized, more consistent and more able to impose organization to others through violence if necessary.

    The CWC folks would come in, wreak havoc, plunder, kill and then just say : "okay let's now be friends" and they would really mean it despite having fought and killed the locals just a few years ago, and they would co-exist with the locals in a more or less inclusive way. CWC descended folks are what we call in French bordélique, they don't finish the job, and they don't build large ordered social structures. But they can easily build large, semi-chaotic Empires spanning continents. They are at their best in Hindustani like system of contradictory and balanced complexity where every village is a varna / tribe whatever, but each lineage is known and more or less accepted, even the Dalit.

    But anywhere the BB descended folks settled in sufficient numbers, they imposed a strict order, a stratification and a segregation. I believe that if the BB descended elites were not so much admixed with all and everyone in the last century or so, we most probably wouldn't have the world we live in today. Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon, while Sovok was typically CWC. That is why I am way more afraid of the Globohomo and the Davos Man than I ever was of the Sovok. Consistency and duration of the oppressive action is the key difference. Sovok despite its ugly totalitarian character in the beginning rapidly devolved in the typical CWC "ребята давайте жить дружно" but the Globohomo might well become a new Religion leading to most normal humans ending in the Great Reset "reservations" where they "will own nothing and be happy", somewhat like their long gone ancestors in the BB conquered Old Europe.

    As Klyosov once quipped : "они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать".

    BTW, Klyosov spent a decade unraveling the R1a & R1b conundrum and has a book that is entirely dedicated to the history and the interactions of the two main branches of the Y haplogroup R.

    Почему западноевропейские племена века напролёт враждуют с населением Русской равнины? Точный ответ на этот вопрос стал возможен только в XXI веке с появлением науки ДНК-генеалогии. Оказалось, что наши народы имели в далёком прошлом одного общего предка, но затем разделились на два больших рода, или по-научному, гаплогруппы: R1a и R1b. Гаплогруппа R1b встречается у 50-87% немцев, голландцев, французов, ирландцев, англичан и других европейских народов, и лишь у 5% этнических русских. Географическая граница проживания этих гаплогрупп проходит как раз там, где век за веком шли войны между европейским Западом и европейским Востоком - в Польше, Белоруссии, Прибалтике. Автор данной книги, учёный с мировым именем, основатель науки ДНК-генеалогии профессор Анатолий Клёсов предлагает называть гаплогруппу R1a "ариями" (поскольку именно её представители вторглись когда-то в Индию), а гаплогруппу R1b - "эрбинами" (по созвучию с буквами R и В).
     
    Don't judge the book by its (catchy) cover. It's a worth read.

    https://www.labirint.ru/books/643427/

    Also for a summary of Klyosov's take on R1b read here.

    https://dzen.ru/a/WyhAIDG0VACrJbTB

    Of course this is all generalizations, individuals can act very different from the large groups.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @AP, @LatW

    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia.

    When our IE ancestors from Fatyanovo were pushing onto our paternal ancestors (the Finns), they were not just genociding (trying to imagine how this happened in real life), they also assimilated a lot of them. The Baltic people assimilated the Livs, the coastal Finnic people, which was a good thing overall, the Livs are a tall, big boned, Northern Euro looking population that mostly ate fish so they are a good addition to the gene pool. I love them and I wish well on their remaining culture.

    The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians

    Then those were our cousins who ended up there and did pretty well. Good for them.

    The Fatyanovo were not mellow people, but quite warlike. As you know very well and as you pointed out.

    But other than that you make fascinating and valid points. As to “finishing the job”, the CWC people can simply “take with mass”, as they say. This has been done in some cases.

    The R1b were hard or impossible to conquer, but they were partially assimilated by mass. The German Prussia was 30% Baltic. Not all the Old Prussians were genocided (in fact, many of them died in the Great Plague that struck in the 18th century, very unfortunate and sad, if it hadn’t been for the damn Plague, there would have been more of them left over). Similarly, not all Baltic Germans were ethnically German – most were, but a considerable portion of them were mixed with locals, or other talented, distinguished or driven individuals from outside who happened to be there (small percentage). Scandinavian countries, too, have a considerable percentage of R1a. So does E. Germany.

    Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon

    No one has yet seriously resisted the Woke and the Woke itself has not yet reached the negative tipping points of its consequences upon society. The question is how much of the Woke would stand if it were seriously resisted. That said, your general point is very interesting and valid.

    while Sovok was typically CWC

    The Sovok one took “with mass”. No need to underestimate the Sovok, as it controlled a large space and was a largely modern society. The CWC ideally should rule with mass and some quality (BB warlike features thrown in), if they produced more people, their culture through their sheer mass would spill over to other societies. But you are right that rigor and discipline and warlike features would still be needed to maintain control and to protect from negative outside influences.

    As Klyosov once quipped : “они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать”.

    This is very well put (and quite true). This is what Germany did with the EU (to make sure that it benefits the center of the EU). But again – it doesn’t mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    But again – it doesn’t mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.
     
    United we stand, divided we fall. That was a recurring pattern in the historical records of our people. Yes we can accommodate and even assimilate almost anyone. We have always been quite open minded to other people, we don't really care about them being different.

    As I wrote once, my maternal grandmother came from a very poor peasant family from a small village in the Penza oblast' and there were Mordvinian and Tatar villages in the same region. No problems co-existing at all for a couple hundred years at least.

    But when we turn against each other, it gets messy and ugly. Just like today in Ukraine. That's why they did all they could on both sides to alienate us from our brethren. So they could see us killing each, while they would applaud and cheer.

    Just like Pelevin described in his very prescient SNUFF novel.

    And about resistance to Globohomo and the Davos Man, ask Canadian truckers how it worked out for them. When TPTB'll have the CBDC and UBI in place it'll be over with traditionnal forms of peaceful resistance. And before that we might have a nuclear war to prepare the masses so they accept the strong "hand that feeds".

    Replies: @LatW

  1083. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW

    LatW, it was a joke and I was being flippant. I don't think genociding anyone or even just dominating other people gets anybody karmic bonus points. What goes around eventually comes around. I personally am not fond at all the Imperial Russian experience, I think it didn't truly benefit most Russians. Same thing about the Soviet System. The Noviop benefitted most, then Natsmen and Russian Vanya always went last.

    I also wish we were as neutral and self-centered as the Swiss. Russia should have written mandatory neutrality in its constitution with an automatic nuclear response if ever attacked. No more taking sides in any conflicts other than self-defense.

    And instead of protecting the putinist fake and gay Русский мир in Ukraine, I would have simply provided for an automatic Russian citizenship and dual citizenship for any Ukrainian citizen that would have wanted to move up East.

    All those who love Russian language and culture would have eventually left Ukraine and they were around 40% of its population before 2014. Others would have gone West to EU, and the Ukrainian conundrum would have been solved without a single bullet fired.

    Same thing about the Russian minorities in the other republics, automatic citizenship & dual citizenship, plus a one time financial help for repatriation.

    Instead they preferred importing Чурки...

    Replies: @LatW

    I personally am not fond at all the Imperial Russian experience, I think it didn’t truly benefit most Russians. Same thing about the Soviet System.

    This is one of the things I really like about you (even though my animus towards the Russian Empire isn’t even that strong, it was a long time ago and there were some positives as well).

    I also wish we were as neutral and self-centered as the Swiss. Russia should have written mandatory neutrality in its constitution with an automatic nuclear response if ever attacked. No more taking sides in any conflicts other than self-defense.

    That would be pretty cool, since you already have all the necessary resources. You would be like a large Switzerland (or a large Norway without NATO membership).

    And instead of protecting the putinist fake and gay Русский мир in Ukraine, I would have simply provided for an automatic Russian citizenship and dual citizenship for any Ukrainian citizen that would have wanted to move up East.

    I agree (the repatriation program is too weak, not enforced vigorously enough). Plus, those Russophones are productive and essentially now end up working for countries that are not Russia friendly. But that’s not what the Kremlin wants, they want control over Ukraine or at least large parts of it.

    Instead they preferred importing Чурки…

    They want to make money and quickly. So they need them.

  1084. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool


    When they live among themselves, they are truly lovely people, but when they are unleashed upon others, then not so much. But I guess, we might say it of every human population on Earth.
     
    Life under Catholic Hapsburgs was better for Slavs than under Russia (although Russia was heavily ruled by Protestant German converts). But under Protestant Hohenzollerns this wasn't the case. Nor did the Baltic Germans or Germans in the tsars' service seem to be particularly nice to others. Biron was a nightmare for the Slavs he ruled over:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Johann_von_Biron

    Protestantism may maximize the negative features of R1b you mentioned.


    The Council of the Empire attempted to secure from Anna an aristocratic constitution, but she crushed the powerful nobility, notably the Dolgorukis and the Galitsins, and placed her reliance exclusively on Biron, who became for all practical purposes the ruler of the Empire. His ascendancy over the empress was unshakable, and whenever required, Biron's enemies and rivals were swept out of the way quite literally; he is said to have caused over 1000 executions, while the number of persons exiled by him to Siberia is estimated at between 20,000–40,000. Meanwhile, the common people were ground down by taxation. Russians have described this reign as the Bironovshchina and the "German yoke." Nevertheless, he showed himself an administrator of considerable ability, and maintained order in the Empire at a time when troubles could have been expected, because the main Romanov line was now extinct, and even the empress did not have children or definite heirs.

    During the latter years of Anna's reign in Russia, Biron increased enormously in power and riches. His apartments in the palace adjoined those of the empress, and his liveries, furniture and equipages were scarcely less expensive or splendid than hers. The magnificence of his plate astonished the French ambassador, and the diamonds of his duchess were the envy of princes. A special department of state looked after his brood mares and stallions. He had landed estates everywhere. Half the bribes intended for the Russian court passed through his coffers

    Replies: @LatW

    Biron’s residence in Latvia. The Rundale Palace. It was recently restored. Designed by the famous Rastrelli. Popular for visits, high end dinners, classical music concerts and weddings these days, at the end of the video you can see the bird’s eye view of the palace garden:

  1085. @AP
    @Ivashka the fool

    Fascinating, but spiritual forces can serve as moderating factors. Places with R1B peoples who have been shaped by Catholicism such as the Spanish world, Italy, Austria, Bavaria are rather pleasant, whereas what you describe as the annihilatory R1B spirit may be more unleashed under conditions of Protestantism (and modern Wokism is a heresy that stems from it).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    annihilatory R1B spirit

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed. So often nationalities with the haplogroups can be many times less descended from the population that had those haplogroups, than a population without the haplogroups. You know Central Africans vs. Ukrainians in this example.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory?

    Even if you have genetically same people (which is not in this example of haplogroups on Y-chromosome from prehistory), in the same culture (which is not the same in your example), in the same historical epoch (which is not the same in your example) they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943), or like North Koreans and South Koreans today.

    Then you don’t have much knowledge of how the ancient people behaved, to say they were unusually violent or not relative to their situation (which we don’t know). You don’t have the same variables in explaiing their behavior, different culture, geopolitics, social organization etc, today than in their time, . You don’t have genetically similar populations to that time. And you don’t have genetically different behavior explaining things you want to explain (i.e. where is evidence that Protestantism restricting to certain genetics, that would be necessary before you even begin the hypothesis).

    • LOL: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    Dima, you are being too rational and materialistic again. You should take into consideration the Qliphoth, Egregores and Akashic Records stuff. Also, perhaps contemplate the Essentialist Approach to ethnic and cultural identities. Otherwise, how to explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ? You have yourself written about the almost "electric" feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers. And this after 40+ generations.
    There must be some spiritual factors involved...

    😉

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @AP
    @Dmitry


    "annihilatory R1B spirit"

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?
     
    My, you have really been triggered by that discussion. Your emotions led you to write the uncharacteristically stupid comment below:

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed.
     
    An R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b ancestor 40 generations ago, and who based on this would be expected to behave a certain way. That was not implied in my comment.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory
     
    You are reasoning like an autistic person, very concretely.

    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It's a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.

    That Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

    they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943)
     
    You stay on the surface. In both cases Germans are methodical, extreme, and ruthless in their pursuit, even if the pursuits differ. Wokism practiced by the descendants of Puritans is completely different on the surface from Puritan Calvinism, but it shares the same essence.

    And you don’t have genetically different behavior explaining
     
    Where did I claim that genetics played any causal role here? That R1b on Y chromosomes would somehow cause a certain collective political behavior? Why did your emotions lead you to make such a dumb assumption? Are you drunk? You are usually not capable of such nonsense.

    R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Ivashka identified certain patterns of behavior of these peoples, that have persisted over millenia despite changes in languages and religions. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

  1086. @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    R1a battle axe culture has genocided a substantial portion off the population of Fenno-Scandia when they entered that region from the territory of the Fatyanovo Culture that is in nowadays Russia.
     
    When our IE ancestors from Fatyanovo were pushing onto our paternal ancestors (the Finns), they were not just genociding (trying to imagine how this happened in real life), they also assimilated a lot of them. The Baltic people assimilated the Livs, the coastal Finnic people, which was a good thing overall, the Livs are a tall, big boned, Northern Euro looking population that mostly ate fish so they are a good addition to the gene pool. I love them and I wish well on their remaining culture.

    The R1a folks that originated among the Fatyanovo people, who migrated East and are to be found among the Tatar and Central Asian Turkic populations today, are also the same that were found among the Scythians
     
    Then those were our cousins who ended up there and did pretty well. Good for them.

    The Fatyanovo were not mellow people, but quite warlike. As you know very well and as you pointed out.

    But other than that you make fascinating and valid points. As to "finishing the job", the CWC people can simply "take with mass", as they say. This has been done in some cases.

    The R1b were hard or impossible to conquer, but they were partially assimilated by mass. The German Prussia was 30% Baltic. Not all the Old Prussians were genocided (in fact, many of them died in the Great Plague that struck in the 18th century, very unfortunate and sad, if it hadn't been for the damn Plague, there would have been more of them left over). Similarly, not all Baltic Germans were ethnically German - most were, but a considerable portion of them were mixed with locals, or other talented, distinguished or driven individuals from outside who happened to be there (small percentage). Scandinavian countries, too, have a considerable percentage of R1a. So does E. Germany.


    Just 2-3 generations ago Western Men brought order, not Woke craziness. But then Kalergi Plan got some traction and little by little the mentality got sloppier, but just as maniacal in its tendency to impose the craziness of the Wokism on others. Globohomo is a BB phenomenon
     
    No one has yet seriously resisted the Woke and the Woke itself has not yet reached the negative tipping points of its consequences upon society. The question is how much of the Woke would stand if it were seriously resisted. That said, your general point is very interesting and valid.

    while Sovok was typically CWC
     
    The Sovok one took "with mass". No need to underestimate the Sovok, as it controlled a large space and was a largely modern society. The CWC ideally should rule with mass and some quality (BB warlike features thrown in), if they produced more people, their culture through their sheer mass would spill over to other societies. But you are right that rigor and discipline and warlike features would still be needed to maintain control and to protect from negative outside influences.

    As Klyosov once quipped : “они любят сначала писать законы, а потом силой заставлять всех им неуклонно следовать”.
     
    This is very well put (and quite true). This is what Germany did with the EU (to make sure that it benefits the center of the EU). But again - it doesn't mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    But again – it doesn’t mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.

    United we stand, divided we fall. That was a recurring pattern in the historical records of our people. Yes we can accommodate and even assimilate almost anyone. We have always been quite open minded to other people, we don’t really care about them being different.

    As I wrote once, my maternal grandmother came from a very poor peasant family from a small village in the Penza oblast’ and there were Mordvinian and Tatar villages in the same region. No problems co-existing at all for a couple hundred years at least.

    But when we turn against each other, it gets messy and ugly. Just like today in Ukraine. That’s why they did all they could on both sides to alienate us from our brethren. So they could see us killing each, while they would applaud and cheer.

    Just like Pelevin described in his very prescient SNUFF novel.

    And about resistance to Globohomo and the Davos Man, ask Canadian truckers how it worked out for them. When TPTB’ll have the CBDC and UBI in place it’ll be over with traditionnal forms of peaceful resistance. And before that we might have a nuclear war to prepare the masses so they accept the strong “hand that feeds”.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Ivashka the fool


    That’s why they did all they could on both sides to alienate us from our brethren. So they could see us killing each, while they would applaud and cheer.
     
    I'm sorry, I don't think it was just some "they". I think we made plenty of mistakes ourselves and these mistakes lasted 30 years and were gradually piling up.
  1087. @Dmitry
    @AP


    annihilatory R1B spirit

     

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed. So often nationalities with the haplogroups can be many times less descended from the population that had those haplogroups, than a population without the haplogroups. You know Central Africans vs. Ukrainians in this example.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory?

    Even if you have genetically same people (which is not in this example of haplogroups on Y-chromosome from prehistory), in the same culture (which is not the same in your example), in the same historical epoch (which is not the same in your example) they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943), or like North Koreans and South Koreans today.

    Then you don't have much knowledge of how the ancient people behaved, to say they were unusually violent or not relative to their situation (which we don't know). You don't have the same variables in explaiing their behavior, different culture, geopolitics, social organization etc, today than in their time, . You don't have genetically similar populations to that time. And you don't have genetically different behavior explaining things you want to explain (i.e. where is evidence that Protestantism restricting to certain genetics, that would be necessary before you even begin the hypothesis).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

    Dima, you are being too rational and materialistic again. You should take into consideration the Qliphoth, Egregores and Akashic Records stuff. Also, perhaps contemplate the Essentialist Approach to ethnic and cultural identities. Otherwise, how to explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ? You have yourself written about the almost “electric” feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers. And this after 40+ generations.
    There must be some spiritual factors involved…

    😉

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    written about the almost “electric” feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers.
     
    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let's say after they returned from building the pyramids) was probably Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, according to my relative's test.

    Although it has no effect for our emotions. Latvia would be a relatively foreign land for me, thousands of kilometres from where I entered the world and we have quite a bit different trees, climate and people. I would have been quite different there. The land which is your dreams and nightmares, is where you were a child, as this is your memory.

    The part of the planet where some ancestor 120 generations in the past was sitting somewhere is impersonal and could be arbitrary. It could even be hoaxed (e.g. for Mormons, who believe they are from the Middle East, and also a different planet) without much effects. But the place you actually lived, is very personal.

    As for my superstitions about the strange atmosphere in the Eastern Mediterranean. It is not "egregores", which would be related to small human things.

    I would say, in my superstitions, it feels like a magnetism that rises from the ground. You feel it more if you can go with the car to a quiet and empty place. In the 19th century when less people were there, it would have been easier to notice and you can see that in the writing about the region.


    explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ?
     
    Because it's half of the religious texts. If they were adopted in an Hindu family, they would be dreaming about cows instead.

    You know it's like why teenage girls are fainting in Justin Bieber concerts. Because of cultural programming, which is not to say it is not important - culture programming is very significant and even have effects like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    -

    *Although why would 120 generations be special? Significance increases of physical evolution with more generations and at the hundreds of thousands of generations we have would much stronger answers about our situation. Significance of the cultural evolution is often more interesting when you look at the more recent history though.

    Replies: @LatW

  1088. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    What is the influence for Russia? It means there is a possibility of victory by waiting for 2024
     
    We will move faster than that. We will finish this year.

    p.s. Unless Xi intervenes, which he won't. Wait for Xi's speech, it's coming up soon.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    We will finish this year.

    Who is “we”? If “we” could control these things we would haven’t war.

    Although the equipment is limited I’m not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.

    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don’t win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years. They were fighting when there was lack of equipment and also after Iran has reconquered land Iraq conquered in the first year.


    [MORE]

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.

    Although Republicans are kinds of changing and “unstable” on this topic, as a branch of the Republicans which are probably going to lose popularity with Republican base, although can be closer to Republican elite.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Who is “we”?
     
    The pro-Ukrainian coalition, but above all, the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    If “we” could control these things we would haven’t war.
     
    There were a lot of mistakes, but probably even correcting those mistakes would not have avoided a war. Some of these things had to be done in 1991.

    Although the equipment is limited I’m not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.
     
    Unfortunately, this is not excluded, there could be low level skirmishes for a long time and hypothetically even bombings from Russia. But it won't be like now with up to a 1000 dying per day. Either way, it is horrific. Russians and Ukrainians are now like Serbs and Croats, like Jews and Palestinians.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.
     
    It's not just the equipment and supplies. The Russians are struggling at the sergeant level as well as on the logistics side. A large portion of the professional troops is now gone, but these new mobilized ones will not be trained into effective sergeants so quickly as that takes years and a certain motivation.

    I wonder what the Ukrainian General Staff have in mind. It might happen quickly at one point when they are ready. And then it will be too late for RusFed.


    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don’t win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).
     
    It might be that what De Santis and Trump are saying is just for the election purposes. But either way, the hope is to complete everything before the US elections.

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years.
     
    Unfortunately, it's an accurate comparison, but it would be a bad scenario, there is already more than enough pain.

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.
     
    These are pure campaign slogans. The last time they were talking a lot about fentanyl in the pre-election debates - has that problem been solved yet? I have no issue with these agendas whatsoever - the US would do well to reinvigorate its industries and not rely on China so much and to take care of the border would be good, too. But for Ukraine and her EE friends, we will have to figure out what to do with the Republicans long term but it would be good to learn to live without relying so much on the US - Ukraine needs to reinstate its MIC and the rest need to prioritize their defense.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    , @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    which they have been fighting for 8 years,
     
    Another 7 years of those concerts as well.

    In the 1980s, it was an anti-war song against the war in Afghanistan, but I guess you can sing without the irony.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0A50m_AmBo

    A very beautiful re-arrange of the second world war song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkhuUQgVMBM

    Grigory Leps returned to visit from London with new patriotic songs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNKqiTL9GM

    And the authorities have "found" (I didn't say astroturfing) some "real songs" that "soldiers fighting in Ukraine" sing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcE_ldixZYM

    Replies: @LatW

  1089. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry

    Dima, you are being too rational and materialistic again. You should take into consideration the Qliphoth, Egregores and Akashic Records stuff. Also, perhaps contemplate the Essentialist Approach to ethnic and cultural identities. Otherwise, how to explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ? You have yourself written about the almost "electric" feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers. And this after 40+ generations.
    There must be some spiritual factors involved...

    😉

    Replies: @Dmitry

    written about the almost “electric” feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers.

    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let’s say after they returned from building the pyramids) was probably Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, according to my relative’s test.

    Although it has no effect for our emotions. Latvia would be a relatively foreign land for me, thousands of kilometres from where I entered the world and we have quite a bit different trees, climate and people. I would have been quite different there. The land which is your dreams and nightmares, is where you were a child, as this is your memory.

    The part of the planet where some ancestor 120 generations in the past was sitting somewhere is impersonal and could be arbitrary. It could even be hoaxed (e.g. for Mormons, who believe they are from the Middle East, and also a different planet) without much effects. But the place you actually lived, is very personal.

    As for my superstitions about the strange atmosphere in the Eastern Mediterranean. It is not “egregores”, which would be related to small human things.

    I would say, in my superstitions, it feels like a magnetism that rises from the ground. You feel it more if you can go with the car to a quiet and empty place. In the 19th century when less people were there, it would have been easier to notice and you can see that in the writing about the region.

    explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ?

    Because it’s half of the religious texts. If they were adopted in an Hindu family, they would be dreaming about cows instead.

    You know it’s like why teenage girls are fainting in Justin Bieber concerts. Because of cultural programming, which is not to say it is not important – culture programming is very significant and even have effects like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    *Although why would 120 generations be special? Significance increases of physical evolution with more generations and at the hundreds of thousands of generations we have would much stronger answers about our situation. Significance of the cultural evolution is often more interesting when you look at the more recent history though.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let’s say after they returned from building the pyramids) was somewhere like Latvia.
     
    I wanted to show you something (knowing that you are a mix of Baltic and Jewish ancestry). My favorite building in Riga (of course, Art Nouveau). It was designed in 1903 by Mikhail Eisenstein (the father of the famous Sergei Eisenstein). According to some tales (which I wholeheartedly believe in), Mikhail who was Jewish had a crush on a Latvian woman, he courted her, but she left him eventually, so he created this beautiful facade as a gift to her - the two large heads you see at the very top of the building, they look kind of ominous and masculine (handsome, one could call it), but it is a portrait of this woman.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Riga_Elizabetes_iel%C4%81_10b%2C.JPG

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6Q8mb6o8elQ/T-4F0pyu-GI/AAAAAAAABGU/NRwqDEpaT7U/s1600/10b+Elizabetes+picture+0151Aw+%282%29.jpg

    Replies: @Dmitry

  1090. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    We will finish this year.
     
    Who is "we"? If "we" could control these things we would haven't war.

    Although the equipment is limited I'm not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.

    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don't win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years. They were fighting when there was lack of equipment and also after Iran has reconquered land Iraq conquered in the first year.

    -

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1627679715409424386

    Although Republicans are kinds of changing and "unstable" on this topic, as a branch of the Republicans which are probably going to lose popularity with Republican base, although can be closer to Republican elite.
    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1626415978144825344

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    Who is “we”?

    The pro-Ukrainian coalition, but above all, the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    If “we” could control these things we would haven’t war.

    There were a lot of mistakes, but probably even correcting those mistakes would not have avoided a war. Some of these things had to be done in 1991.

    Although the equipment is limited I’m not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.

    Unfortunately, this is not excluded, there could be low level skirmishes for a long time and hypothetically even bombings from Russia. But it won’t be like now with up to a 1000 dying per day. Either way, it is horrific. Russians and Ukrainians are now like Serbs and Croats, like Jews and Palestinians.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.

    It’s not just the equipment and supplies. The Russians are struggling at the sergeant level as well as on the logistics side. A large portion of the professional troops is now gone, but these new mobilized ones will not be trained into effective sergeants so quickly as that takes years and a certain motivation.

    I wonder what the Ukrainian General Staff have in mind. It might happen quickly at one point when they are ready. And then it will be too late for RusFed.

    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don’t win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).

    It might be that what De Santis and Trump are saying is just for the election purposes. But either way, the hope is to complete everything before the US elections.

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years.

    Unfortunately, it’s an accurate comparison, but it would be a bad scenario, there is already more than enough pain.

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.

    These are pure campaign slogans. The last time they were talking a lot about fentanyl in the pre-election debates – has that problem been solved yet? I have no issue with these agendas whatsoever – the US would do well to reinvigorate its industries and not rely on China so much and to take care of the border would be good, too. But for Ukraine and her EE friends, we will have to figure out what to do with the Republicans long term but it would be good to learn to live without relying so much on the US – Ukraine needs to reinstate its MIC and the rest need to prioritize their defense.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW


    Unfortunately, this is not excluded
     
    A lot of the weapons they are giving Ukraine will only enter in the end of 2023 or 2024.

    31 American Abrams tanks are going to Ukraine which may be in 2024.
    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/02/23/tanks-might-not-reach-ukraine-this-year-us-army-secretary-says/

    Western countries are also planning to increase building of 155mm artillery shells by the end of 2023.

    You could say this is more limitation than planning, because they cannot ramp production before end of 2023. But, these plans seem like they are at least preparing for this war to increase in 2024. This also gives motive for Ukraine to prepare for fighting in 2024, as this will be when they are attaining more modern equipment.

    I wonder what the Ukrainian General Staff have i
     

    There will be Bradley vehicles in Ukraine already in 2023. France and Denmark are giving Ceasar artillery to Ukraine. There is some articles saying possibly Great Britain could give them Storm Shadow cruise missiles (which could be this year). https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-uk-to-give-kyiv-longer-range-weapons

    But Russia is building defending fortifications and the number of Western tanks will be small in Ukraine this year.

    It will be in 2024 Ukraine will have a lot of modern equipment including the access to the higher production of 155mm shells.

    By then Russia will have more available soldiers, although not necessarily more equipment.

  1091. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    written about the almost “electric” feeling you got when visiting the land of your forefathers.
     
    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let's say after they returned from building the pyramids) was probably Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, according to my relative's test.

    Although it has no effect for our emotions. Latvia would be a relatively foreign land for me, thousands of kilometres from where I entered the world and we have quite a bit different trees, climate and people. I would have been quite different there. The land which is your dreams and nightmares, is where you were a child, as this is your memory.

    The part of the planet where some ancestor 120 generations in the past was sitting somewhere is impersonal and could be arbitrary. It could even be hoaxed (e.g. for Mormons, who believe they are from the Middle East, and also a different planet) without much effects. But the place you actually lived, is very personal.

    As for my superstitions about the strange atmosphere in the Eastern Mediterranean. It is not "egregores", which would be related to small human things.

    I would say, in my superstitions, it feels like a magnetism that rises from the ground. You feel it more if you can go with the car to a quiet and empty place. In the 19th century when less people were there, it would have been easier to notice and you can see that in the writing about the region.


    explain the burning Jewish love for the Hallowed Land after all these generations ?
     
    Because it's half of the religious texts. If they were adopted in an Hindu family, they would be dreaming about cows instead.

    You know it's like why teenage girls are fainting in Justin Bieber concerts. Because of cultural programming, which is not to say it is not important - culture programming is very significant and even have effects like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    -

    *Although why would 120 generations be special? Significance increases of physical evolution with more generations and at the hundreds of thousands of generations we have would much stronger answers about our situation. Significance of the cultural evolution is often more interesting when you look at the more recent history though.

    Replies: @LatW

    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let’s say after they returned from building the pyramids) was somewhere like Latvia.

    I wanted to show you something (knowing that you are a mix of Baltic and Jewish ancestry). My favorite building in Riga (of course, Art Nouveau). It was designed in 1903 by Mikhail Eisenstein (the father of the famous Sergei Eisenstein). According to some tales (which I wholeheartedly believe in), Mikhail who was Jewish had a crush on a Latvian woman, he courted her, but she left him eventually, so he created this beautiful facade as a gift to her – the two large heads you see at the very top of the building, they look kind of ominous and masculine (handsome, one could call it), but it is a portrait of this woman.

    • Thanks: Ivashka the fool
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW

    Riga looks like a very attractive city, with those buildings. I haven't been to there, but I hear from some people (my parents) who loved vacations in the region.

    You know, you don't want me going there asking for a passport with a photocopy of a commercial DNA test "you have to give me a passport, my ancestors were from there 3000 years ago".


    look kind of ominous and masculine (handsome, one could call it), but it is a portrait of this woman

     

    I guess the masculine image women was not yet fashionable in that time, of Art Nouveau. But it's something in the 1920s and 1930s the masculine images women were fashionable.

    It kind of reminds of later Soviet sculptures, or in America, those postage stamps of Ayn Rand.

  1092. I would say, in my superstitions, it feels like a magnetism that rises from the ground. You feel it more if you can go with the car to a quiet and empty place. In the 19th century when less people were there, it would have been easier to notice and you can see that in the writing about the region.

    How do you explain this?

    And don’t you think it might be possibly linked with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    ???

    Significance increases of physical evolution with more generations and at the hundreds of thousands of generations we have would much stronger answers about our situation. Significance of the cultural evolution is often more interesting when you look at the more recent history though.

    Great things are best seen from afar, while small things must be looked close upon. But as the wise Cosmas de Proutkove once aptly said : “Никому не объять необъятного”.

    🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    How do you explain this?

    And don’t you think it might be possibly linked with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    ???
     

    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination. I was reading those ancient texts from the Eastern Mediterranean so I have a lot of the psychological programming. I also am influenced by heat and too much coffee when I travel there.

    For my imagination (for little this is useful), it's more in the countryside. I had the similar feeling looking on the sea in Greece and Cyprus.

    In Israel, I feel it when we drive the car to an empty place. It is like a kind of vibration from the ground.

    But perhaps, if you want a more scientific explanation, this is just radiation from the Mormon UFO under the pyramids. Yahya is probably too used to it to notice it now.

    For specifically Jerusalem syndrome, you can still believe your egregore theory. After all, it's not such a normal city for the 21st century, where every Friday night hundreds of thousands of people are trying to speak to God on the wall of the ancient ruins of a destroyed temple they are not allowed to enter. And that is just one of the three religions making noises there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9b4WICm7JY

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1093. @Ivashka the fool
    @LatW


    But again – it doesn’t mean someone cannot stand up and oppose these laws, or at least question or criticize them. If such a need arises.
     
    United we stand, divided we fall. That was a recurring pattern in the historical records of our people. Yes we can accommodate and even assimilate almost anyone. We have always been quite open minded to other people, we don't really care about them being different.

    As I wrote once, my maternal grandmother came from a very poor peasant family from a small village in the Penza oblast' and there were Mordvinian and Tatar villages in the same region. No problems co-existing at all for a couple hundred years at least.

    But when we turn against each other, it gets messy and ugly. Just like today in Ukraine. That's why they did all they could on both sides to alienate us from our brethren. So they could see us killing each, while they would applaud and cheer.

    Just like Pelevin described in his very prescient SNUFF novel.

    And about resistance to Globohomo and the Davos Man, ask Canadian truckers how it worked out for them. When TPTB'll have the CBDC and UBI in place it'll be over with traditionnal forms of peaceful resistance. And before that we might have a nuclear war to prepare the masses so they accept the strong "hand that feeds".

    Replies: @LatW

    That’s why they did all they could on both sides to alienate us from our brethren. So they could see us killing each, while they would applaud and cheer.

    I’m sorry, I don’t think it was just some “they”. I think we made plenty of mistakes ourselves and these mistakes lasted 30 years and were gradually piling up.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
  1094. @Dmitry
    @LatW


    We will finish this year.
     
    Who is "we"? If "we" could control these things we would haven't war.

    Although the equipment is limited I'm not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.

    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don't win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years. They were fighting when there was lack of equipment and also after Iran has reconquered land Iraq conquered in the first year.

    -

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1627679715409424386

    Although Republicans are kinds of changing and "unstable" on this topic, as a branch of the Republicans which are probably going to lose popularity with Republican base, although can be closer to Republican elite.
    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1626415978144825344

    Replies: @LatW, @Dmitry

    which they have been fighting for 8 years,

    Another 7 years of those concerts as well.

    In the 1980s, it was an anti-war song against the war in Afghanistan, but I guess you can sing without the irony.

    A very beautiful re-arrange of the second world war song.

    Grigory Leps returned to visit from London with new patriotic songs

    And the authorities have “found” (I didn’t say astroturfing) some “real songs” that “soldiers fighting in Ukraine” sing.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry

    That's right - today is Men's day! The day of defender in Russia.

    Мужайся!

    I know, I probably shouldn't say this but the guy in the second video is quite cute. Even though he's lip synching. I wonder if it's a real soldier rapper since he has all those medals.

    Btw, Dima, did you hear the original, legendary Гойда! scream? It was performed in the beginning of the SMO.

    As to the more stern image of women in Art Nouveau (and later), I like it a lot when it's not overdone (it shows the human being in a sublime way), but I like Mucha very much and the women in his drawings were still feminine.

    Replies: @Dmitry

  1095. @Dmitry
    @AP


    annihilatory R1B spirit

     

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed. So often nationalities with the haplogroups can be many times less descended from the population that had those haplogroups, than a population without the haplogroups. You know Central Africans vs. Ukrainians in this example.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory?

    Even if you have genetically same people (which is not in this example of haplogroups on Y-chromosome from prehistory), in the same culture (which is not the same in your example), in the same historical epoch (which is not the same in your example) they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943), or like North Koreans and South Koreans today.

    Then you don't have much knowledge of how the ancient people behaved, to say they were unusually violent or not relative to their situation (which we don't know). You don't have the same variables in explaiing their behavior, different culture, geopolitics, social organization etc, today than in their time, . You don't have genetically similar populations to that time. And you don't have genetically different behavior explaining things you want to explain (i.e. where is evidence that Protestantism restricting to certain genetics, that would be necessary before you even begin the hypothesis).

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @AP

    “annihilatory R1B spirit”

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?

    My, you have really been triggered by that discussion. Your emotions led you to write the uncharacteristically stupid comment below:

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed.

    An R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b ancestor 40 generations ago, and who based on this would be expected to behave a certain way. That was not implied in my comment.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory

    You are reasoning like an autistic person, very concretely.

    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It’s a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.

    That Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

    they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943)

    You stay on the surface. In both cases Germans are methodical, extreme, and ruthless in their pursuit, even if the pursuits differ. Wokism practiced by the descendants of Puritans is completely different on the surface from Puritan Calvinism, but it shares the same essence.

    And you don’t have genetically different behavior explaining

    Where did I claim that genetics played any causal role here? That R1b on Y chromosomes would somehow cause a certain collective political behavior? Why did your emotions lead you to make such a dumb assumption? Are you drunk? You are usually not capable of such nonsense.

    R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Ivashka identified certain patterns of behavior of these peoples, that have persisted over millenia despite changes in languages and religions. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool
    • Thanks: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AP


    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It’s a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.
     
    It is an interesting hypothesis, some obvious data in its favour come to mind so it seems worth considering. It has a certain topicality at the moment, at least from a Western pov because with Wokeness this question of the deep origins of a shared Western identity has been coming into more prominence lately.

    (Though from what I have seen the Woke tend to trace it back as a deep hereditary cultural construction to Aristotle and the Romans and things, rather than going the genetics route.)

    The idea of the West being defined by a genocidal mentality is also likely to be more to the forefront of people's minds at present, some of the data points that come into mind to lend plausibility to this theory will be the genocide of Native Americans, Aborgines, the pre-Conquest peoples of South and Central America, the way these have been linked to the Nazi genocide of Jews and mass killings of Slavs. This is often also linked to hierarchial societies, slavery and so on.

    The hypothesis could be used to support ideas from Foucault, Adorno etc. about the relatedness of Nazism to a deep pan-Western identity.

    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?) and it seems to rely on archaeo-genetic and archaeological data that from a fast changing field that has many arguments and discussion between academics who just focus even on more narrow questions, not hypotheses of political/cultural continuity on this sort of scale.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He's asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch "Ancient Apocalypse".

    But you are medical worker in America so you shouldn't need me to wrote the paragraph below.


    R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b.. R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.
     
    In terms of relation of modern populations to these haplogroups on Y-chromosome, there are many populations which are more related to the ancient people who had the haplogroup, which have lower rates of the haplogroup today, than other populations with higher rates of the haplogroup.

    In the example modern Ukrainians will be genetically closer to the populations which had R1b 120 generations ago, than many populations which have higher rates of the haplogroup today.


    Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

     

    It's true "Wokism" has similar ideals as Christianity and can feel a bit like a secular version, although the belief in equality not only in Christianity, it can also other religions and secular views. It isn't closer to Protestantism than Catholicism. Movements like "liberation theology" are more in the Catholic sphere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    But you nowadays identified to Catholicism, while said you dislike "Wokism". Therefore, to boost the ego, "Wokism" will be related to Protestantism.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1096. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Land where most of my ancestors were sitting 120 generations ago* (let’s say after they returned from building the pyramids) was somewhere like Latvia.
     
    I wanted to show you something (knowing that you are a mix of Baltic and Jewish ancestry). My favorite building in Riga (of course, Art Nouveau). It was designed in 1903 by Mikhail Eisenstein (the father of the famous Sergei Eisenstein). According to some tales (which I wholeheartedly believe in), Mikhail who was Jewish had a crush on a Latvian woman, he courted her, but she left him eventually, so he created this beautiful facade as a gift to her - the two large heads you see at the very top of the building, they look kind of ominous and masculine (handsome, one could call it), but it is a portrait of this woman.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Riga_Elizabetes_iel%C4%81_10b%2C.JPG

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6Q8mb6o8elQ/T-4F0pyu-GI/AAAAAAAABGU/NRwqDEpaT7U/s1600/10b+Elizabetes+picture+0151Aw+%282%29.jpg

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Riga looks like a very attractive city, with those buildings. I haven’t been to there, but I hear from some people (my parents) who loved vacations in the region.

    You know, you don’t want me going there asking for a passport with a photocopy of a commercial DNA test “you have to give me a passport, my ancestors were from there 3000 years ago”.

    look kind of ominous and masculine (handsome, one could call it), but it is a portrait of this woman

    I guess the masculine image women was not yet fashionable in that time, of Art Nouveau. But it’s something in the 1920s and 1930s the masculine images women were fashionable.

    It kind of reminds of later Soviet sculptures, or in America, those postage stamps of Ayn Rand.

  1097. @Dmitry
    @Dmitry


    which they have been fighting for 8 years,
     
    Another 7 years of those concerts as well.

    In the 1980s, it was an anti-war song against the war in Afghanistan, but I guess you can sing without the irony.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0A50m_AmBo

    A very beautiful re-arrange of the second world war song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkhuUQgVMBM

    Grigory Leps returned to visit from London with new patriotic songs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNKqiTL9GM

    And the authorities have "found" (I didn't say astroturfing) some "real songs" that "soldiers fighting in Ukraine" sing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcE_ldixZYM

    Replies: @LatW

    That’s right – today is Men’s day! The day of defender in Russia.

    Мужайся!

    I know, I probably shouldn’t say this but the guy in the second video is quite cute. Even though he’s lip synching. I wonder if it’s a real soldier rapper since he has all those medals.

    Btw, Dima, did you hear the original, legendary Гойда! scream? It was performed in the beginning of the SMO.

    As to the more stern image of women in Art Nouveau (and later), I like it a lot when it’s not overdone (it shows the human being in a sublime way), but I like Mucha very much and the women in his drawings were still feminine.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @LatW

    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYQQsq-qEQ

    Or a fake imitation of Irish singers and American rappers for songs about Mariupol with Swedish musical equipment synthesizers behind them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZP4v-OhEI

    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.

    Or you know, Maccabees, will rebel against the globalizing culture of Hellenistic Judaism, when they begin rebellion with the Seleucid Empire.

    While in the Russian Federation it has been accelerating importing of Western culture. It will be a kind of parallel import or import substitution for the Western product. It's like a province rebelling against the Roman empire, saying "we will build our native Roman baths, toga and aquaducts". Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or "mafia wars", than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times

    Replies: @LatW, @QCIC

  1098. @Ivashka the fool

    I would say, in my superstitions, it feels like a magnetism that rises from the ground. You feel it more if you can go with the car to a quiet and empty place. In the 19th century when less people were there, it would have been easier to notice and you can see that in the writing about the region.
     
    How do you explain this?

    And don't you think it might be possibly linked with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    ???

    Significance increases of physical evolution with more generations and at the hundreds of thousands of generations we have would much stronger answers about our situation. Significance of the cultural evolution is often more interesting when you look at the more recent history though.
     
    Great things are best seen from afar, while small things must be looked close upon. But as the wise Cosmas de Proutkove once aptly said : "Никому не объять необъятного".

    🙂

    Replies: @Dmitry

    How do you explain this?

    And don’t you think it might be possibly linked with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    ???

    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination. I was reading those ancient texts from the Eastern Mediterranean so I have a lot of the psychological programming. I also am influenced by heat and too much coffee when I travel there.

    For my imagination (for little this is useful), it’s more in the countryside. I had the similar feeling looking on the sea in Greece and Cyprus.

    In Israel, I feel it when we drive the car to an empty place. It is like a kind of vibration from the ground.

    But perhaps, if you want a more scientific explanation, this is just radiation from the Mormon UFO under the pyramids. Yahya is probably too used to it to notice it now.

    For specifically Jerusalem syndrome, you can still believe your egregore theory. After all, it’s not such a normal city for the 21st century, where every Friday night hundreds of thousands of people are trying to speak to God on the wall of the ancient ruins of a destroyed temple they are not allowed to enter. And that is just one of the three religions making noises there.

    • Agree: Ivashka the fool, Yahya
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination.
     
    Well, in a sense for someone who is influenced by the Buddhadharma, everything is "programming" of some sort. So yes I get it. Doesn't mean that it is not important because it is "programming". We call it "habit energy" in Buddhism. We simply wouldn't exist without it. Evolution is "programming".

    @ AP and you.

    Y and mtDNA haplogroups are just markers that carry no genetic information whatsoever. And yet, it is true that some populations associated with a given marker consistently behave in a manner that is quite unlike from those who lack this marker. It leads to different requirements to function as a happy and fulfilled human being as well. As the Russian saying goes : что Русскому в радость - то Немцу смерть. For example I remember a German journalist writing with a biological disgust about how dirty Moscow was in the early 90ies. The guy really couldn't stomach it. And he had problems also to keep his cool while contemplating the lack of ordnung and the irrationality of these "Russian untermenshen". Of course, it was impossible for him to write it explicitly, for it would have been outspoken Russophobia, but you could feel it in every article he wrote from Moscow.

    Not to say that we felt joy and happiness when some drunk neighbor peed in the entrance of the многоэтажка back then, but we had other pressing problems, as in surviving, and didn't really denying the drunk slob's humanity because he sometimes behaved as an untrained animal would do. We understood that perhaps his factory, where he was an ударник and a герой социалистического труда for dozens of years, had closed, with all its equipment having been sold to Turkey or China, while the director repatriated to Israel with all the moneys. That perhaps his son rrcently turned to hard drugs and his daughter (conviently named Natasha) started taking regular visits to Istanbul from where she sent some "hard acquired" moneys to her self-abasing dad and depressive mom.

    The German journalist didn't care: order, rationality and good manners were absolutely required under all circumstances. There could be no exceptions or explanations whatsoever. Those who acted in a sub-par manner were lesser people. Animals actually. They ought to be put in a cage, trained, reformed, re-educated. But most Russians who were aware of his writings didn't care about his opinions. It didn't matter. Нам п☆х - мы пляшем...

    These psychological differences are impossible to explain by genetics only, because people get rapidly admixed to a point where genetically speaking their offspring are barely identifiable with their ancestors after a dozen generations. Perhaps that's where the Russian (Bible inspired ?) expression about someone being damned до двенадцатого колена comes from. I know that колено is not as much a generation, but more of a tribe. But our offspring often evolve into tribes of their own. My kids are certainly different from myself and their mother and yet you can feel something familiar both in the attitude and the phenotype, something that is sometimes untangible and yet is real.

    Dima, whom I truly like reading because he is always such a умный (Еврейский) мальчик, has mentioned programming in his comments about the Hallowed Land. Yes I agree and concur, this is programming. Rather all evolution is self-programming of information flows for an increased fitness of the patterns they are attached to. Each one of us is an impermanent dynamic system, nearly every part of each of us being different when we die from the day we are born. And yet we exist and subjectively identify as the same person.

    This is due to the information (memory, emotion) being tied to patterns in our physical makeup such as neuronal networks in our brains, hormones in our blood, the endocannabinoid system gluing it all together. We can call it namarupa in Bufdhist terms (name - form) :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

    It is in a sense an Attractor in the meaning we use this expression in Chaos theory (non-linear dynamic systems).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor

    In Buddhism, people and every sentient being, are "programmed" by causality, their actions - consequences of these actions - consequences of these consequences etc. Karma. That is how we acquire a specific namarupa.

    Perhaps different populations have different Attractors because their patterns of acting and behaving have consistently programmed them since times immemorial ?

    That it is the collective sum of their karmas ?

    Perhaps they collectively end up having also a collective Attractor for their ethnic group ?

    An Egregore ?

    After all, matter is linked with information and information is linked to matter and both are linked to energy. Perhaps that would offer an explanation to some weird patterns of behavior.

    I know it's "muh metaphysics" much, but if we find no rational explanation, then we must use an irrational one.

    🙂

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack

  1099. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.
     
    Not according to the article:

    https://i.imgur.com/LhSxomn.png

    Moldovans are closest to Croats and Hungarians. Ukrainians are closest to Poles, though they are closer to Moldovans than Poles are. The Ukranian sample is very large, some are like Moldovans and others are like Poles but most are in between and closer to the Polish average.

    Interesting to see that Estonians are very similar to Russians, and rather different from Finns.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ferraro

    According to the article:

    I also double-checked with general statistics for Moldova, and yes it is closer to Ukraine, since their respective shares of genetic types are similar. Poland has almost 20% more of R1a than Ukraine and Moldova, and unlike them, lacks substantial input from I2 Megalithic cultures men.
    But Ukraine is closer to Poland than Russia.

    I am anyway curious how I2-only country would look like (the highest share of them, 50%, has Bosnia).

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    But I can agree that the graphics contains too few Polish data to be decisive on the question of Ukrainian proximity to Poland. Ukraine is nevertheless more diverse genetically than Poland, which may or may not contribute to the current war, which started as a semi-civil/separationist war.

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Another Polish Perspective

    You could propose a tentative hypothesis that the recent European wars are about independence for remnants of megalithic culture people (like I2-men), or maybe more generally, of old Y-haplogroups. That is certainly true in case of the former Yugoslavia, whose more I2 parts - Bosnia & Herzegoviana and Croatia - split from Serbia. Likewise, this is true in case of Kosovo which is dominated by E1b1. Well, Bosnia has even its own pyramid! (talking about I2 fetish for big stony things).

    Ukraine would be perhaps a similar case: the current Russo-Ukrainian war is fratricide for R1a, but an independence fight for I2 (looking at it purely in terms of Y- haplogroups)

  1100. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    According to the article:

    https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/223682136/giaa159fig2.jpg

    I also double-checked with general statistics for Moldova, and yes it is closer to Ukraine, since their respective shares of genetic types are similar. Poland has almost 20% more of R1a than Ukraine and Moldova, and unlike them, lacks substantial input from I2 Megalithic cultures men.
    But Ukraine is closer to Poland than Russia.

    I am anyway curious how I2-only country would look like (the highest share of them, 50%, has Bosnia).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    But I can agree that the graphics contains too few Polish data to be decisive on the question of Ukrainian proximity to Poland. Ukraine is nevertheless more diverse genetically than Poland, which may or may not contribute to the current war, which started as a semi-civil/separationist war.

  1101. @AP
    @Dmitry


    "annihilatory R1B spirit"

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?
     
    My, you have really been triggered by that discussion. Your emotions led you to write the uncharacteristically stupid comment below:

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed.
     
    An R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b ancestor 40 generations ago, and who based on this would be expected to behave a certain way. That was not implied in my comment.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory
     
    You are reasoning like an autistic person, very concretely.

    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It's a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.

    That Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

    they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943)
     
    You stay on the surface. In both cases Germans are methodical, extreme, and ruthless in their pursuit, even if the pursuits differ. Wokism practiced by the descendants of Puritans is completely different on the surface from Puritan Calvinism, but it shares the same essence.

    And you don’t have genetically different behavior explaining
     
    Where did I claim that genetics played any causal role here? That R1b on Y chromosomes would somehow cause a certain collective political behavior? Why did your emotions lead you to make such a dumb assumption? Are you drunk? You are usually not capable of such nonsense.

    R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Ivashka identified certain patterns of behavior of these peoples, that have persisted over millenia despite changes in languages and religions. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It’s a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.

    It is an interesting hypothesis, some obvious data in its favour come to mind so it seems worth considering. It has a certain topicality at the moment, at least from a Western pov because with Wokeness this question of the deep origins of a shared Western identity has been coming into more prominence lately.

    (Though from what I have seen the Woke tend to trace it back as a deep hereditary cultural construction to Aristotle and the Romans and things, rather than going the genetics route.)

    The idea of the West being defined by a genocidal mentality is also likely to be more to the forefront of people’s minds at present, some of the data points that come into mind to lend plausibility to this theory will be the genocide of Native Americans, Aborgines, the pre-Conquest peoples of South and Central America, the way these have been linked to the Nazi genocide of Jews and mass killings of Slavs. This is often also linked to hierarchial societies, slavery and so on.

    The hypothesis could be used to support ideas from Foucault, Adorno etc. about the relatedness of Nazism to a deep pan-Western identity.

    [MORE]

    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?) and it seems to rely on archaeo-genetic and archaeological data that from a fast changing field that has many arguments and discussion between academics who just focus even on more narrow questions, not hypotheses of political/cultural continuity on this sort of scale.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Coconuts


    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?)
     
    The Haplogroup is merely a marker, a fingerprint that helps us to make an identification. It itself doesn’t cause anything.

    The more common this marker is in a population, the more “R1b” the population is (at least according to male descent). So if 40% of males in a population are R1b, one can infer that the overall population are at minimum of 20% R1b descent (if no R1b people females contributed).

    Of course culture is related but not identical. But this can also be a marker for particular cultures that can be linked to certain haplogroups. R1b related to Bell Beaker, for example. Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.

    Replies: @Coconuts

  1102. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    How do you explain this?

    And don’t you think it might be possibly linked with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

    ???
     

    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination. I was reading those ancient texts from the Eastern Mediterranean so I have a lot of the psychological programming. I also am influenced by heat and too much coffee when I travel there.

    For my imagination (for little this is useful), it's more in the countryside. I had the similar feeling looking on the sea in Greece and Cyprus.

    In Israel, I feel it when we drive the car to an empty place. It is like a kind of vibration from the ground.

    But perhaps, if you want a more scientific explanation, this is just radiation from the Mormon UFO under the pyramids. Yahya is probably too used to it to notice it now.

    For specifically Jerusalem syndrome, you can still believe your egregore theory. After all, it's not such a normal city for the 21st century, where every Friday night hundreds of thousands of people are trying to speak to God on the wall of the ancient ruins of a destroyed temple they are not allowed to enter. And that is just one of the three religions making noises there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9b4WICm7JY

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination.

    Well, in a sense for someone who is influenced by the Buddhadharma, everything is “programming” of some sort. So yes I get it. Doesn’t mean that it is not important because it is “programming”. We call it “habit energy” in Buddhism. We simply wouldn’t exist without it. Evolution is “programming”.

    @ AP and you.

    Y and mtDNA haplogroups are just markers that carry no genetic information whatsoever. And yet, it is true that some populations associated with a given marker consistently behave in a manner that is quite unlike from those who lack this marker. It leads to different requirements to function as a happy and fulfilled human being as well. As the Russian saying goes : что Русскому в радость – то Немцу смерть. For example I remember a German journalist writing with a biological disgust about how dirty Moscow was in the early 90ies. The guy really couldn’t stomach it. And he had problems also to keep his cool while contemplating the lack of ordnung and the irrationality of these “Russian untermenshen“. Of course, it was impossible for him to write it explicitly, for it would have been outspoken Russophobia, but you could feel it in every article he wrote from Moscow.

    [MORE]

    Not to say that we felt joy and happiness when some drunk neighbor peed in the entrance of the многоэтажка back then, but we had other pressing problems, as in surviving, and didn’t really denying the drunk slob’s humanity because he sometimes behaved as an untrained animal would do. We understood that perhaps his factory, where he was an ударник and a герой социалистического труда for dozens of years, had closed, with all its equipment having been sold to Turkey or China, while the director repatriated to Israel with all the moneys. That perhaps his son rrcently turned to hard drugs and his daughter (conviently named Natasha) started taking regular visits to Istanbul from where she sent some “hard acquired” moneys to her self-abasing dad and depressive mom.

    The German journalist didn’t care: order, rationality and good manners were absolutely required under all circumstances. There could be no exceptions or explanations whatsoever. Those who acted in a sub-par manner were lesser people. Animals actually. They ought to be put in a cage, trained, reformed, re-educated. But most Russians who were aware of his writings didn’t care about his opinions. It didn’t matter. Нам п☆х – мы пляшем…

    These psychological differences are impossible to explain by genetics only, because people get rapidly admixed to a point where genetically speaking their offspring are barely identifiable with their ancestors after a dozen generations. Perhaps that’s where the Russian (Bible inspired ?) expression about someone being damned до двенадцатого колена comes from. I know that колено is not as much a generation, but more of a tribe. But our offspring often evolve into tribes of their own. My kids are certainly different from myself and their mother and yet you can feel something familiar both in the attitude and the phenotype, something that is sometimes untangible and yet is real.

    Dima, whom I truly like reading because he is always such a умный (Еврейский) мальчик, has mentioned programming in his comments about the Hallowed Land. Yes I agree and concur, this is programming. Rather all evolution is self-programming of information flows for an increased fitness of the patterns they are attached to. Each one of us is an impermanent dynamic system, nearly every part of each of us being different when we die from the day we are born. And yet we exist and subjectively identify as the same person.

    This is due to the information (memory, emotion) being tied to patterns in our physical makeup such as neuronal networks in our brains, hormones in our blood, the endocannabinoid system gluing it all together. We can call it namarupa in Bufdhist terms (name – form) :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

    It is in a sense an Attractor in the meaning we use this expression in Chaos theory (non-linear dynamic systems).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor

    In Buddhism, people and every sentient being, are “programmed” by causality, their actions – consequences of these actions – consequences of these consequences etc. Karma. That is how we acquire a specific namarupa.

    Perhaps different populations have different Attractors because their patterns of acting and behaving have consistently programmed them since times immemorial ?

    That it is the collective sum of their karmas ?

    Perhaps they collectively end up having also a collective Attractor for their ethnic group ?

    An Egregore ?

    After all, matter is linked with information and information is linked to matter and both are linked to energy. Perhaps that would offer an explanation to some weird patterns of behavior.

    I know it’s “muh metaphysics” much, but if we find no rational explanation, then we must use an irrational one.

    🙂

    • Thanks: Mr. Hack, Yahya
    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too. Interestingly, if you point to a German that scientifically speaking, too much cleanness is not beneficial as it will produce its own diseases (alergies etc), they simply ignore it: therefore, it is a cultural thing. Many German public spaces are pervaded the artificial odour of cleaning chemicals which I find clearly unpleasant.
    On the other hand, the cleanness obsession is a reverse of the German obsession with Nature, of "Landleben" etc, as Nature is inherently dirty.
    Perhaps a compromise can be seen in the German habit of getting half-naked on every [scorched] green space in a town, as soon as the Sun gets out (Sun being another German obsession).

    German soul is a composite of strongly held but mutually often incompatible convictions, so I am not so completely surprised that yesterday they were Nazis and today they are Wokes.

    Replies: @AP

    , @Mr. Hack
    @Ivashka the fool

    Don't skip the info presented below the [Hide MORE].

    I'm not quite sure what you do today professionally, but you would make an excellent anthropologist.

  1103. @Ivashka the fool

    I am still wondering about how to reconcile with the study I posted early that shows that the people using Bell Beakers fall into genetically distinct groups. The people using Bell Beakers in Iberia were seen to have plenty of Iberian Neolithic ancestry, including the paternal haplogroups, whereas the people using the Beakers who migrated into Britain only had Steppe, Central European Neolithic and WHG, with no identifiable Iberian influences.
     
    Mostly male warrior elite with genetics being rapidly diluted through mating with local females. First generation: 100% BB, but after 4 generations it would be barely detectable. However, the Y haplogroup still would be the same.

    Moreover, imagine each of these warriors having access to a harem of female retinue producing a couple dozen offspring on each generation - that's a founder effect explaining the Y haplogroup R1b replacement of other male haplogroups. Moreover, the higher hierarchical elite individuals might have mated with the more pure blood BB descended females, while the lower hierarchical individuals might have only had the access to the conquered females, MC or CWC. And finally, given the warrior and conqueror ethos of the BB folks, it is probable that among their offspring, some would have been selected into the War Band brotherhood, while others wouldn't have passed the rites of passage or the test of strength or whatever cultural religious trial and ordeal they imposed upon their members (killing some commoner woman and/or child in cold blood as a sacrifice around their sacred enclosures ?) and would have been left among the heavily admixed commoners. In the Tollense River battle some warriors had genetics that matched Iberian peninsula, but most people killed there would have been similar to Central Europeans. That battle happened centuries after the BB conquest of the Iberian peninsula.

    Unless Bell Beaker is seen as a cultural package rather than something closely tied to genetics, so it was a form of social organisation and material culture that spread from Iberia into central and Western Europe and was adopted by originally quite genetically different groups?

     

    A cultural and a social package centered upon the dominant ruthless warrior elite. Genetically diluted after many generations, but keeping the same cultural complex and the same social organization through a consistent application of organized violence. Y haplogroup R1b staying the same as the founders and supplanting the other conquered male populations through a priority access to females. When it ended completely diluted after several centuries and the neighboring folks (mostly CWC) became sufficiently strong to resist and perhaps even to attempt some Reconquista, then it ended up in a more harmonious coexistence under the Unetice Culture, and after its fragmentation under the proto-Italo - Celtic and proto - Balto-Slav local subvariants. But the Y haplogroup R1a ended up dominant in the whole of BB conquered space although before it was just one among others and probably less frequent than I2 or R1a.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts

    Mostly male warrior elite with genetics being rapidly diluted through mating with local females.

    I was thinking more of data or discoveries, say to undermine this point that the authors of that study put forward:

    The expansion of the Beaker Complex cannot be described by a simple one-to-one mapping of an archaeologically defined material culture to a genetically homogeneous population. This stands in contrast to other archaeological complexes, notably the Linearbandkeramik first farmers of central Europe2, the Early Bronze Age Yamnaya of the Steppe2,3, and to some extent the Corded Ware Complex of central and eastern Europe.

    Because the ‘out of Iberia’ argument about R-M269 seems to assume that this one to one relationship between the Beakers and a genetically homogenous population (at least in terms of presence of R-M269) always holds true?

    [MORE]

    From what I can gather at the moment it looks like there would have to have been a larger population of these people in Northern Africa around 3000 BC, then they move to Iberia, then they move out of Iberia without proliferating much or conquering it, instead making alliances with males of other haplogroups while transmitting their culture to them. A small number of Steppe ancestry people would be left behind in Iberia while the larger group left to conquer Europe.

    Or else there was only ever small numbers of Steppe ancestry R-M269 in North Africa and Iberia, they initially made alliances with locals and transmitted their culture before only Steppe ancestry males (I guess R-M269 carriers) left as a kind of small group of warriors, leaving some other group behind. The small group that left then used their dominance and spirit of conquest to rapidly spread across Central and Western Europe. This would all be 3000-2500 BC period?

    What I was wondering is what kind of data and studies exist to show accounts like this are more accurate than the others given for the movements of R-M269 carriers in Europe?

  1104. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination.
     
    Well, in a sense for someone who is influenced by the Buddhadharma, everything is "programming" of some sort. So yes I get it. Doesn't mean that it is not important because it is "programming". We call it "habit energy" in Buddhism. We simply wouldn't exist without it. Evolution is "programming".

    @ AP and you.

    Y and mtDNA haplogroups are just markers that carry no genetic information whatsoever. And yet, it is true that some populations associated with a given marker consistently behave in a manner that is quite unlike from those who lack this marker. It leads to different requirements to function as a happy and fulfilled human being as well. As the Russian saying goes : что Русскому в радость - то Немцу смерть. For example I remember a German journalist writing with a biological disgust about how dirty Moscow was in the early 90ies. The guy really couldn't stomach it. And he had problems also to keep his cool while contemplating the lack of ordnung and the irrationality of these "Russian untermenshen". Of course, it was impossible for him to write it explicitly, for it would have been outspoken Russophobia, but you could feel it in every article he wrote from Moscow.

    Not to say that we felt joy and happiness when some drunk neighbor peed in the entrance of the многоэтажка back then, but we had other pressing problems, as in surviving, and didn't really denying the drunk slob's humanity because he sometimes behaved as an untrained animal would do. We understood that perhaps his factory, where he was an ударник and a герой социалистического труда for dozens of years, had closed, with all its equipment having been sold to Turkey or China, while the director repatriated to Israel with all the moneys. That perhaps his son rrcently turned to hard drugs and his daughter (conviently named Natasha) started taking regular visits to Istanbul from where she sent some "hard acquired" moneys to her self-abasing dad and depressive mom.

    The German journalist didn't care: order, rationality and good manners were absolutely required under all circumstances. There could be no exceptions or explanations whatsoever. Those who acted in a sub-par manner were lesser people. Animals actually. They ought to be put in a cage, trained, reformed, re-educated. But most Russians who were aware of his writings didn't care about his opinions. It didn't matter. Нам п☆х - мы пляшем...

    These psychological differences are impossible to explain by genetics only, because people get rapidly admixed to a point where genetically speaking their offspring are barely identifiable with their ancestors after a dozen generations. Perhaps that's where the Russian (Bible inspired ?) expression about someone being damned до двенадцатого колена comes from. I know that колено is not as much a generation, but more of a tribe. But our offspring often evolve into tribes of their own. My kids are certainly different from myself and their mother and yet you can feel something familiar both in the attitude and the phenotype, something that is sometimes untangible and yet is real.

    Dima, whom I truly like reading because he is always such a умный (Еврейский) мальчик, has mentioned programming in his comments about the Hallowed Land. Yes I agree and concur, this is programming. Rather all evolution is self-programming of information flows for an increased fitness of the patterns they are attached to. Each one of us is an impermanent dynamic system, nearly every part of each of us being different when we die from the day we are born. And yet we exist and subjectively identify as the same person.

    This is due to the information (memory, emotion) being tied to patterns in our physical makeup such as neuronal networks in our brains, hormones in our blood, the endocannabinoid system gluing it all together. We can call it namarupa in Bufdhist terms (name - form) :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

    It is in a sense an Attractor in the meaning we use this expression in Chaos theory (non-linear dynamic systems).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor

    In Buddhism, people and every sentient being, are "programmed" by causality, their actions - consequences of these actions - consequences of these consequences etc. Karma. That is how we acquire a specific namarupa.

    Perhaps different populations have different Attractors because their patterns of acting and behaving have consistently programmed them since times immemorial ?

    That it is the collective sum of their karmas ?

    Perhaps they collectively end up having also a collective Attractor for their ethnic group ?

    An Egregore ?

    After all, matter is linked with information and information is linked to matter and both are linked to energy. Perhaps that would offer an explanation to some weird patterns of behavior.

    I know it's "muh metaphysics" much, but if we find no rational explanation, then we must use an irrational one.

    🙂

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack

    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too. Interestingly, if you point to a German that scientifically speaking, too much cleanness is not beneficial as it will produce its own diseases (alergies etc), they simply ignore it: therefore, it is a cultural thing. Many German public spaces are pervaded the artificial odour of cleaning chemicals which I find clearly unpleasant.
    On the other hand, the cleanness obsession is a reverse of the German obsession with Nature, of “Landleben” etc, as Nature is inherently dirty.
    Perhaps a compromise can be seen in the German habit of getting half-naked on every [scorched] green space in a town, as soon as the Sun gets out (Sun being another German obsession).

    German soul is a composite of strongly held but mutually often incompatible convictions, so I am not so completely surprised that yesterday they were Nazis and today they are Wokes.

    • Replies: @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too
     
    Well, Poles are more cleanly than Ukrainians, who are more cleanly than Russians (and within Ukraine, Galicians are the cleanest). Those of us who have visited Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish villages can attest to that. Does it correspond to R1b contribution to each population (both literal in terms of descent, and cultural via influence).

    But actual Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks. Wasn’t anyone going to sweep it up?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

  1105. @Coconuts
    @AP


    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It’s a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.
     
    It is an interesting hypothesis, some obvious data in its favour come to mind so it seems worth considering. It has a certain topicality at the moment, at least from a Western pov because with Wokeness this question of the deep origins of a shared Western identity has been coming into more prominence lately.

    (Though from what I have seen the Woke tend to trace it back as a deep hereditary cultural construction to Aristotle and the Romans and things, rather than going the genetics route.)

    The idea of the West being defined by a genocidal mentality is also likely to be more to the forefront of people's minds at present, some of the data points that come into mind to lend plausibility to this theory will be the genocide of Native Americans, Aborgines, the pre-Conquest peoples of South and Central America, the way these have been linked to the Nazi genocide of Jews and mass killings of Slavs. This is often also linked to hierarchial societies, slavery and so on.

    The hypothesis could be used to support ideas from Foucault, Adorno etc. about the relatedness of Nazism to a deep pan-Western identity.

    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?) and it seems to rely on archaeo-genetic and archaeological data that from a fast changing field that has many arguments and discussion between academics who just focus even on more narrow questions, not hypotheses of political/cultural continuity on this sort of scale.

    Replies: @AP

    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?)

    The Haplogroup is merely a marker, a fingerprint that helps us to make an identification. It itself doesn’t cause anything.

    The more common this marker is in a population, the more “R1b” the population is (at least according to male descent). So if 40% of males in a population are R1b, one can infer that the overall population are at minimum of 20% R1b descent (if no R1b people females contributed).

    Of course culture is related but not identical. But this can also be a marker for particular cultures that can be linked to certain haplogroups. R1b related to Bell Beaker, for example. Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @AP


    Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.
     
    This is one of the questions someone might have about the theory, what exactly are Bell Beaker characteristics?

    I can see that when academic archaeologists writing in Western journals talk about it, it means people who can be identified as being part of the Bell Beaker complex. Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269). It now seems most complex members in Iberia didn't. Those Archaeologists are more cautious in moving beyond that in attributing other characteristics to these people or an ongoing legacy.

    Irish, Welsh and Basques have the highest percentage of R-M269, so if Germans are typical or representative of the impact of R-M269+Bell Beaker cultural influence, you might expect Welsh and Basques to be uber-Germans. Irish, Spanish and Portuguese should be not far behind.

    Noting that Irish, Welsh, Spanish and Portuguese all have a different culture and outlook to Russians or Poles is very true, but they live at opposite ends of Europe and seem to have had very limited contact for a couple of millennia, so you could expect it.

    They do share Indo-European languages and a Christian heritage. They may have Steppe or central European ancestry or they may not, the theory Ivashka is talking about seems to place them as being mainly from North Africa and the Middle East. This emphasises the separateness and distance from R1a I guess.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

  1106. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Ivashka the fool

    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too. Interestingly, if you point to a German that scientifically speaking, too much cleanness is not beneficial as it will produce its own diseases (alergies etc), they simply ignore it: therefore, it is a cultural thing. Many German public spaces are pervaded the artificial odour of cleaning chemicals which I find clearly unpleasant.
    On the other hand, the cleanness obsession is a reverse of the German obsession with Nature, of "Landleben" etc, as Nature is inherently dirty.
    Perhaps a compromise can be seen in the German habit of getting half-naked on every [scorched] green space in a town, as soon as the Sun gets out (Sun being another German obsession).

    German soul is a composite of strongly held but mutually often incompatible convictions, so I am not so completely surprised that yesterday they were Nazis and today they are Wokes.

    Replies: @AP

    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too

    Well, Poles are more cleanly than Ukrainians, who are more cleanly than Russians (and within Ukraine, Galicians are the cleanest). Those of us who have visited Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish villages can attest to that. Does it correspond to R1b contribution to each population (both literal in terms of descent, and cultural via influence).

    But actual Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks. Wasn’t anyone going to sweep it up?

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    Well, East Germany - DDR - which has more R1a than former BDR - wasn't really so clean - but has become more - so surely cleanness is not an exclusive attribute of R1b. In fact, Lisbon, a capital of R1b-domianted Portugal (10% more than Southwest Germany) isn't so clean either.

    As it is now, Warsaw is perhaps more clean than Berlin (wasn't in every part of Berlin but what I saw, wasn't really clean).

    What is surely not appropriate is to read morality into cleanness, what Germans seem to do. There a Polish saying which claims: "If you notice cleanness, you won't notice anything else anymore", which I think is true - con men usually are clean and well-dressed, at least in the West...

    , @Dmitry
    @AP

    German cities are not unusually clean at least for Northern Europe levels. They are maybe on the European average. I think you confuse them with Switzerland.


    Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks.
     
    People who choose for their vacation to go to the Middle East and then complain about sand there? I guess their next vacation will be complaining about the ice in Greenland. Idiots exist in every nationality, but it is not accurate to say they are representative of their nationality.
  1107. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    You know it can be cultural programming and my imagination.
     
    Well, in a sense for someone who is influenced by the Buddhadharma, everything is "programming" of some sort. So yes I get it. Doesn't mean that it is not important because it is "programming". We call it "habit energy" in Buddhism. We simply wouldn't exist without it. Evolution is "programming".

    @ AP and you.

    Y and mtDNA haplogroups are just markers that carry no genetic information whatsoever. And yet, it is true that some populations associated with a given marker consistently behave in a manner that is quite unlike from those who lack this marker. It leads to different requirements to function as a happy and fulfilled human being as well. As the Russian saying goes : что Русскому в радость - то Немцу смерть. For example I remember a German journalist writing with a biological disgust about how dirty Moscow was in the early 90ies. The guy really couldn't stomach it. And he had problems also to keep his cool while contemplating the lack of ordnung and the irrationality of these "Russian untermenshen". Of course, it was impossible for him to write it explicitly, for it would have been outspoken Russophobia, but you could feel it in every article he wrote from Moscow.

    Not to say that we felt joy and happiness when some drunk neighbor peed in the entrance of the многоэтажка back then, but we had other pressing problems, as in surviving, and didn't really denying the drunk slob's humanity because he sometimes behaved as an untrained animal would do. We understood that perhaps his factory, where he was an ударник and a герой социалистического труда for dozens of years, had closed, with all its equipment having been sold to Turkey or China, while the director repatriated to Israel with all the moneys. That perhaps his son rrcently turned to hard drugs and his daughter (conviently named Natasha) started taking regular visits to Istanbul from where she sent some "hard acquired" moneys to her self-abasing dad and depressive mom.

    The German journalist didn't care: order, rationality and good manners were absolutely required under all circumstances. There could be no exceptions or explanations whatsoever. Those who acted in a sub-par manner were lesser people. Animals actually. They ought to be put in a cage, trained, reformed, re-educated. But most Russians who were aware of his writings didn't care about his opinions. It didn't matter. Нам п☆х - мы пляшем...

    These psychological differences are impossible to explain by genetics only, because people get rapidly admixed to a point where genetically speaking their offspring are barely identifiable with their ancestors after a dozen generations. Perhaps that's where the Russian (Bible inspired ?) expression about someone being damned до двенадцатого колена comes from. I know that колено is not as much a generation, but more of a tribe. But our offspring often evolve into tribes of their own. My kids are certainly different from myself and their mother and yet you can feel something familiar both in the attitude and the phenotype, something that is sometimes untangible and yet is real.

    Dima, whom I truly like reading because he is always such a умный (Еврейский) мальчик, has mentioned programming in his comments about the Hallowed Land. Yes I agree and concur, this is programming. Rather all evolution is self-programming of information flows for an increased fitness of the patterns they are attached to. Each one of us is an impermanent dynamic system, nearly every part of each of us being different when we die from the day we are born. And yet we exist and subjectively identify as the same person.

    This is due to the information (memory, emotion) being tied to patterns in our physical makeup such as neuronal networks in our brains, hormones in our blood, the endocannabinoid system gluing it all together. We can call it namarupa in Bufdhist terms (name - form) :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namarupa

    It is in a sense an Attractor in the meaning we use this expression in Chaos theory (non-linear dynamic systems).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor

    In Buddhism, people and every sentient being, are "programmed" by causality, their actions - consequences of these actions - consequences of these consequences etc. Karma. That is how we acquire a specific namarupa.

    Perhaps different populations have different Attractors because their patterns of acting and behaving have consistently programmed them since times immemorial ?

    That it is the collective sum of their karmas ?

    Perhaps they collectively end up having also a collective Attractor for their ethnic group ?

    An Egregore ?

    After all, matter is linked with information and information is linked to matter and both are linked to energy. Perhaps that would offer an explanation to some weird patterns of behavior.

    I know it's "muh metaphysics" much, but if we find no rational explanation, then we must use an irrational one.

    🙂

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Mr. Hack

    Don’t skip the info presented below the [Hide MORE].

    I’m not quite sure what you do today professionally, but you would make an excellent anthropologist.

  1108. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too
     
    Well, Poles are more cleanly than Ukrainians, who are more cleanly than Russians (and within Ukraine, Galicians are the cleanest). Those of us who have visited Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish villages can attest to that. Does it correspond to R1b contribution to each population (both literal in terms of descent, and cultural via influence).

    But actual Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks. Wasn’t anyone going to sweep it up?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    Well, East Germany – DDR – which has more R1a than former BDR – wasn’t really so clean – but has become more – so surely cleanness is not an exclusive attribute of R1b. In fact, Lisbon, a capital of R1b-domianted Portugal (10% more than Southwest Germany) isn’t so clean either.

    As it is now, Warsaw is perhaps more clean than Berlin (wasn’t in every part of Berlin but what I saw, wasn’t really clean).

    What is surely not appropriate is to read morality into cleanness, what Germans seem to do. There a Polish saying which claims: “If you notice cleanness, you won’t notice anything else anymore”, which I think is true – con men usually are clean and well-dressed, at least in the West…

  1109. @AP
    @Coconuts


    My reservations about it are that it is very ambitious, puts a lot of importance on male Haplogroups (is an explanation proposed for why they are so influential?)
     
    The Haplogroup is merely a marker, a fingerprint that helps us to make an identification. It itself doesn’t cause anything.

    The more common this marker is in a population, the more “R1b” the population is (at least according to male descent). So if 40% of males in a population are R1b, one can infer that the overall population are at minimum of 20% R1b descent (if no R1b people females contributed).

    Of course culture is related but not identical. But this can also be a marker for particular cultures that can be linked to certain haplogroups. R1b related to Bell Beaker, for example. Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.

    This is one of the questions someone might have about the theory, what exactly are Bell Beaker characteristics?

    I can see that when academic archaeologists writing in Western journals talk about it, it means people who can be identified as being part of the Bell Beaker complex. Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269). It now seems most complex members in Iberia didn’t. Those Archaeologists are more cautious in moving beyond that in attributing other characteristics to these people or an ongoing legacy.

    Irish, Welsh and Basques have the highest percentage of R-M269, so if Germans are typical or representative of the impact of R-M269+Bell Beaker cultural influence, you might expect Welsh and Basques to be uber-Germans. Irish, Spanish and Portuguese should be not far behind.

    Noting that Irish, Welsh, Spanish and Portuguese all have a different culture and outlook to Russians or Poles is very true, but they live at opposite ends of Europe and seem to have had very limited contact for a couple of millennia, so you could expect it.

    They do share Indo-European languages and a Christian heritage. They may have Steppe or central European ancestry or they may not, the theory Ivashka is talking about seems to place them as being mainly from North Africa and the Middle East. This emphasises the separateness and distance from R1a I guess.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269).
     
    The original Bell-Beaker folks around Gibraltar are only distantly related to Yamnaya and they had no steppe ancestry while conquering Iberian peninsula. Whatever steppe ancestry that is found in Spain and Portugal today, or in Great Britain for that matter, is due to Corded Ware Culture folks admixture, either among the Eastern Bell-Beaker or most probably among the Celts that have migrated to both Spain and Great Britain in the Iron Age. Of course the Celts have been followed by the Germanic Anglo-saxon in Great Britain, who were even more heavily admixed with the CWC.

    I answered Mikel already, but I am doubling the answer here: Yamnaya migration to Central and Western Europe did not alter the balance of Old European Y haplogroups. And it did not change the phenotype. The Corded Ware migration to Central Europe had much more impact. But the dominant culture in Western Europe was the Megalithic one during Yamnaya and Corded Ware Culture migration period and this did not change until the BB folks moved in from the South-west.

    These two waves of migration are separated by nearly a thousand years and should not be conflated. Unfortunately most people do conflate them because of the faulty Kurgan theory of Gambutas. She formulated her theory when the Y haplogroups were unknown. The study of the haplogroups has proven her wrong. Old Europe has not been destroyed by some steppe invaders.

    The Bell-Beaker have never been to the steppe, they came from the southernmost extremity of Western Europe. They probably crossed the Gibraltar arriving from the Maghreb. Then they moved East in Europe and also somewhat later into the British Isles. It has been noted that the earliest Bell-Beaker finds in Europe were often located clloser to some major rivers, which would have been logical for a maritime population. Later on, after several generations, the Bell-Beaker in Central Europe became accomplished cavalry fighters. But it was not the case in their earliest days. However, they have probably always been excellent archers.

    The steppe ancestry of the later (Eastern) Bell-Beaker folks is most probably entirely deeived from the subjugated Corded Ware Culture females with whom the BB males mated in Central Europe for hundreds of years. This mix eventually led to the Celts through first Unetice Culture and then La Tène and Hallstatt Cultures. The Celts then spread accross Europe in all directions, including British Isles and Spain where a Bell-Beaker descended (proto-Basque) population was already well settled for nearly two millenia. Celts were able to conquer and colonize the British Isles, but not so much the ancestors of the Basque. Celts were mostly R1b too, but they spoke an Indo-European language that became the prevalent language of Central Europe in Unetice Culture period and was derived from the proto-Indo-European spoken by the Corded Ware Culture folks. And Celts were actually a BB / CWC métis population, who have obviously carried the CWC derived steppe ancestry.

    Moreover, I believe that the leucoderm phenotype, in both the Yamnaya and the Corded Ware Culture descendents, is due to their admixture with a non Y haplogroup R population that has evolved in the environment that favored a fair complexion. The most probable environment for that is the one in the modern day Doggerland region. When it was flooded at the end of the Ice Age, early Neolithic, the local people escaped to Northern Europe. Then they intermixed with both the Corded Ware Culture and Bell-Beaker folks. These fair phenotype people might have been (most probably) the Y haplogroup I people of the Megalithic Europe. Or it might have been some other population that inhabited the North Sea and Baltic Sea shores before the migration of Y haplogroup R people into that region.

    It's that simple.

    Replies: @Mikel

  1110. @Another Polish Perspective
    @AP

    According to the article:

    https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/223682136/giaa159fig2.jpg

    I also double-checked with general statistics for Moldova, and yes it is closer to Ukraine, since their respective shares of genetic types are similar. Poland has almost 20% more of R1a than Ukraine and Moldova, and unlike them, lacks substantial input from I2 Megalithic cultures men.
    But Ukraine is closer to Poland than Russia.

    I am anyway curious how I2-only country would look like (the highest share of them, 50%, has Bosnia).

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    You could propose a tentative hypothesis that the recent European wars are about independence for remnants of megalithic culture people (like I2-men), or maybe more generally, of old Y-haplogroups. That is certainly true in case of the former Yugoslavia, whose more I2 parts – Bosnia & Herzegoviana and Croatia – split from Serbia. Likewise, this is true in case of Kosovo which is dominated by E1b1. Well, Bosnia has even its own pyramid! (talking about I2 fetish for big stony things).

    Ukraine would be perhaps a similar case: the current Russo-Ukrainian war is fratricide for R1a, but an independence fight for I2 (looking at it purely in terms of Y- haplogroups)

  1111. @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    I don’t know if this still stands but a couple of decades ago geneticists concluded that there was a big genetic similarity between Basques and the Irish/Welsh, at least those living in Celtic speaking areas. I remember newspaper articles both in Spain and the British Islands often talking about this. Perhaps this was just a conclusion based on Y haplogroup studies before autosomal DNA became more prevalent. Welsh, Basques and Irish (in that order) have the highest levels of R1b in the world.
     
    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account. As well as R1b connection, there were also Neolithic Iberian settlements in the south of England who must have arrived by boat from Northern Spain. I feel like I remember reading something about these populations in a newspaper early last decade.

    In reality, I suspect that things are more complicated than that. Ethnic Basques in general have pale skin, especially I think in the Basque speaking areas, that are also the ones with the cloudiest/most oceanic climate.
     
    I knew a few Basques at university and wondered about why they looked closer to British people than the other Spanish, who all had similar colouring to Arteta in the photo. You could well be right about the lighter coloured traits emerging at different places where the environment favours them, I seem to remember Galicians and the northern Portuguese being lighter than Spanish people I met from further south and east as well.

    It might be interesting if at some point they find a skull in the Basque country or Northern Spain and are able to attempt a reconstruction as they did with Ava, and see how they compare, and with the modern population.

    Replies: @Mikel

    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.

    I don’t think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We’ve all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It’s a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn’t have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven’t received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka’s narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka’s view (I’m not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let’s assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can’t use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    • Thanks: Yahya
    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Mikel

    The Yamnaya folks who came from the steppe as the first wave of R1b migration didn't alter either the genetic makeup of Old Europe or the phenotype of its established populations. The Kurgan theory of Gambutas was proved wrong. There was no mass migration of Steppe warriors from the East.

    The Bell-Beaker, distantly related to Yamnaya and carrying another clade of Y haplogroup R1b first appeared in Iberian peninsula and on the other shore of the Gibraltar, in Northern Morocco. The Moroccan BB might have been the original population. How they did get to Morocco is unclear. They might have been a fraction of the Yamnaya migration that went South accross the Caucasus mountains and ended up contributing to the Hausa people who speak Chadic languages (another warlike population that has successfully resisted Arabic conquest). The BB fraction would have been less numerous and would have reached the Maghreb, where they didn't stay for some reason (the place was already taken by the proto-Berber folks ?). The early BB entered Western Europe through modern day Extremadura and in the next few centuries replaced nearly all other male lineages up to the modern day Slavdom limits. The cruel warriors came from the West and in the early days they had nearly no Steppe ancestry.

    , @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    I don’t think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.
     
    It does look like this is the case.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka’s narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us?
     
    Yes, I was finding that most of the accounts I could see reject the idea of any significant migration of R1b carriers from Iberia during the Bell Beaker era as well. I guess Razib Khan follows this view. This seems to be based on the study I keep talking about. I have put a reference and some notes I made about it in my second comment.

    There may be some disagreements in the archaeological community around some of these topics. I know there is one about the origin of the Beakers even, with Iberia vs. Lower Rhine theories.

    With the terminology I think it can sometimes become a little vague. e.g. Bell Beakers may refer to people sharing some culture and objects like the beakers themselves, but who may belong to largely genetically unrelated groups, or it seems like it may be used to refer to males connected with the beakers who mostly all share the same haplogroup (e.g. R-M269). This would apply outside Iberia but not within Iberia, there the males connected with the Beakers don't all share a haplogroup, few seem to have R1b R-M269.

    Different things are possible, if more was known about the social organisation of Bell Beaker people in Iberia, did members of a certain male haplogroup constitute an identifiable warrior elite say? This might clear things up. Of if R1b R-M269 passed through Iberia on the way to the North, did they learn to become fierce warriors after leaving? If some researchers reject them migrating from the East, and some researchers reject out-of-Iberia, where could R1b R-M269 have come from? The Lower Rhine?

    I think you could be right about the phenotypes changing over time.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel


    the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven’t received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult
     
    .


    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people. In case of sedentary population, any incursion by Rh+ men and an attempt at settlement there with captured Rh- women would end in the majority of offspring dying. Since people at that time did not know about Rhesus factor, that could produce a "bad legend" of Basques, as kind of "untouchables", which would further protect them.

    Replies: @Mikel

    , @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel

    The paradox is true. It is truly amazing how adventurous those early R1b beakers were, travelling back and forth between Europe and Africa, whereas Mayans had never really reached North America, despite Nature attacking their Central American cities - their motivation for travel should have been strong.

    I still think some land west of Europe and Africa, not the wading area of Dogger Bank as Ivashka wants, could be the origin of non-steppe-admixture R1b people. After all volcanic Azores are just peaks of a ridge, and the legend of Atlantis says that it submerged due to renewed volcanic activity. Such a research direction may not be too popular since it would mean that Europe can be submerged as well - after all there are large, dormant volcanoes in Europe. One volcanic zone supposedly stretches from German Eifel to Berlins "Muggelsee": that would be only fitting, as Germans are so haughty as Atlanteans supposedly were.

    But I am curious how such "Atlantean origins" theories are popular among Basques themselves...?

  1112. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.
     
    I don't think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We've all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn't have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven't received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka's narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka's view (I'm not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let's assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can't use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    The Yamnaya folks who came from the steppe as the first wave of R1b migration didn’t alter either the genetic makeup of Old Europe or the phenotype of its established populations. The Kurgan theory of Gambutas was proved wrong. There was no mass migration of Steppe warriors from the East.

    The Bell-Beaker, distantly related to Yamnaya and carrying another clade of Y haplogroup R1b first appeared in Iberian peninsula and on the other shore of the Gibraltar, in Northern Morocco. The Moroccan BB might have been the original population. How they did get to Morocco is unclear. They might have been a fraction of the Yamnaya migration that went South accross the Caucasus mountains and ended up contributing to the Hausa people who speak Chadic languages (another warlike population that has successfully resisted Arabic conquest). The BB fraction would have been less numerous and would have reached the Maghreb, where they didn’t stay for some reason (the place was already taken by the proto-Berber folks ?). The early BB entered Western Europe through modern day Extremadura and in the next few centuries replaced nearly all other male lineages up to the modern day Slavdom limits. The cruel warriors came from the West and in the early days they had nearly no Steppe ancestry.

  1113. @Coconuts
    @AP


    Presumably a culture whose population is 50% R1b is more likely to exhibit more Bell Beaker characteristics than one with only 5% R1b, where any Bell Beaker folks have been outnumbered by others.
     
    This is one of the questions someone might have about the theory, what exactly are Bell Beaker characteristics?

    I can see that when academic archaeologists writing in Western journals talk about it, it means people who can be identified as being part of the Bell Beaker complex. Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269). It now seems most complex members in Iberia didn't. Those Archaeologists are more cautious in moving beyond that in attributing other characteristics to these people or an ongoing legacy.

    Irish, Welsh and Basques have the highest percentage of R-M269, so if Germans are typical or representative of the impact of R-M269+Bell Beaker cultural influence, you might expect Welsh and Basques to be uber-Germans. Irish, Spanish and Portuguese should be not far behind.

    Noting that Irish, Welsh, Spanish and Portuguese all have a different culture and outlook to Russians or Poles is very true, but they live at opposite ends of Europe and seem to have had very limited contact for a couple of millennia, so you could expect it.

    They do share Indo-European languages and a Christian heritage. They may have Steppe or central European ancestry or they may not, the theory Ivashka is talking about seems to place them as being mainly from North Africa and the Middle East. This emphasises the separateness and distance from R1a I guess.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269).

    The original Bell-Beaker folks around Gibraltar are only distantly related to Yamnaya and they had no steppe ancestry while conquering Iberian peninsula. Whatever steppe ancestry that is found in Spain and Portugal today, or in Great Britain for that matter, is due to Corded Ware Culture folks admixture, either among the Eastern Bell-Beaker or most probably among the Celts that have migrated to both Spain and Great Britain in the Iron Age. Of course the Celts have been followed by the Germanic Anglo-saxon in Great Britain, who were even more heavily admixed with the CWC.

    [MORE]

    I answered Mikel already, but I am doubling the answer here: Yamnaya migration to Central and Western Europe did not alter the balance of Old European Y haplogroups. And it did not change the phenotype. The Corded Ware migration to Central Europe had much more impact. But the dominant culture in Western Europe was the Megalithic one during Yamnaya and Corded Ware Culture migration period and this did not change until the BB folks moved in from the South-west.

    These two waves of migration are separated by nearly a thousand years and should not be conflated. Unfortunately most people do conflate them because of the faulty Kurgan theory of Gambutas. She formulated her theory when the Y haplogroups were unknown. The study of the haplogroups has proven her wrong. Old Europe has not been destroyed by some steppe invaders.

    The Bell-Beaker have never been to the steppe, they came from the southernmost extremity of Western Europe. They probably crossed the Gibraltar arriving from the Maghreb. Then they moved East in Europe and also somewhat later into the British Isles. It has been noted that the earliest Bell-Beaker finds in Europe were often located clloser to some major rivers, which would have been logical for a maritime population. Later on, after several generations, the Bell-Beaker in Central Europe became accomplished cavalry fighters. But it was not the case in their earliest days. However, they have probably always been excellent archers.

    The steppe ancestry of the later (Eastern) Bell-Beaker folks is most probably entirely deeived from the subjugated Corded Ware Culture females with whom the BB males mated in Central Europe for hundreds of years. This mix eventually led to the Celts through first Unetice Culture and then La Tène and Hallstatt Cultures. The Celts then spread accross Europe in all directions, including British Isles and Spain where a Bell-Beaker descended (proto-Basque) population was already well settled for nearly two millenia. Celts were able to conquer and colonize the British Isles, but not so much the ancestors of the Basque. Celts were mostly R1b too, but they spoke an Indo-European language that became the prevalent language of Central Europe in Unetice Culture period and was derived from the proto-Indo-European spoken by the Corded Ware Culture folks. And Celts were actually a BB / CWC métis population, who have obviously carried the CWC derived steppe ancestry.

    Moreover, I believe that the leucoderm phenotype, in both the Yamnaya and the Corded Ware Culture descendents, is due to their admixture with a non Y haplogroup R population that has evolved in the environment that favored a fair complexion. The most probable environment for that is the one in the modern day Doggerland region. When it was flooded at the end of the Ice Age, early Neolithic, the local people escaped to Northern Europe. Then they intermixed with both the Corded Ware Culture and Bell-Beaker folks. These fair phenotype people might have been (most probably) the Y haplogroup I people of the Megalithic Europe. Or it might have been some other population that inhabited the North Sea and Baltic Sea shores before the migration of Y haplogroup R people into that region.

    It’s that simple.

    • Thanks: Coconuts
    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Ivashka the fool


    It’s that simple.
     
    No, it's not, I'm afraid.

    I am trying to reconcile what you write with what I read in Wikipedia and I think I am more confused than before.


    The Kurgan hypothesis (also known as the Kurgan theory, Kurgan model, or steppe theory) is the most widely accepted proposal to identify the Proto-Indo-European homeland from which the Indo-European languages spread out throughout Europe and parts of Asia.

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

    So the Kurgan hypothesis doesn't deal with genetics too much and is still widely accepted.


    Haplogroup R1b, especially subclades of R1b-M269, is the most common Y-DNA haplogroup found among both the Yamnaya and modern-day Western Europeans.
    ../..
    People of the Yamnaya culture are believed to have had mostly brown eye colour, light to intermediate skin, and brown hair colour, with some variation.
    ../..
    Yamnaya autosomal characteristics are very close to the Corded Ware culture people, with an estimated 73% ancestral contribution from the Yamnaya DNA in the DNA of Corded Ware skeletons from Germany. The same study estimated a (38.8–50.4 %) ancestral contribution of the Yamnaya in the DNA of modern Central, and Northern Europeans, and an 18.5–32.6 % contribution in modern Southern Europeans
    ../..
    Studies that analysed ancient human remains in Ireland and Portugal support the thesis that R-M269 was introduced in these places along with autosomal DNA from the Eastern European steppes.

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

    Basically, everything highlighted above puts upside down our previous discussion and your account of events. Particularly the fact that R1b and its main European clade R-M269 became predominant in parts of Southwest Europe and the British Islands through the Yamnaya, who in turn were very closely related to the Corded Ware people at the autosomal level.

    IOW, the main event of substitution of male lineages in both Britain and Iberia came from Eastern Europe rather than the other way around.

    And both R1a and R1b have their origins in the Steppe area anyway:


    According to ancient DNA studies, most R1a and R1b lineages would have expanded from the Caspian Sea along with the Indo-European languages.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Geographical_distribution

    I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a reliable source for anything where political correctness is involved but I don't see much scope for that type of distortion in this discussion. Wiki acknowledges different theories but, in general, I think that it puts several holes in the West-BB-R1b versus East-CW-R1a narrative that you put forth above, as does Coconut's latest contribution. It also questions some of the assumptions I had about the origins and evolution of my people. Much more reading to do, I guess.
  1114. @Mr. Hack
    @Sean


    the Russians are going to fight like hell. They won’t quit until they are desperate, and everyone in the West has stopped paying any attention to the Kremlin’s theatre thermonuclear threats.
     
    And you buy this nonsense? "fight like hell"?? I get more of the impression that most of the Russian soldiers are in Ukraine, because they've been drafted, conscripted, signed up to minimize jail time (felons in prison with long sentences), etc. wondering why they're in Ukraine and praying to get out alive. Ukrainians are much more motivated, because they're in their own home, fighting for their families safety, their cities, their freedom and autonomy. Why have so many of their major campaigns failed so miserably, if they're so well motivated (Kyiv, Kherson, Kharkiv)?

    Replies: @Sean, @Johnny Rico

    “Why have so many of their major campaigns…”

    They have had ONE major campaign. This is it. This will go a long way to assuaging your confusion.

  1115. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.
     
    I don't think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We've all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn't have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven't received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka's narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka's view (I'm not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let's assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can't use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    I don’t think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    It does look like this is the case.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka’s narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us?

    Yes, I was finding that most of the accounts I could see reject the idea of any significant migration of R1b carriers from Iberia during the Bell Beaker era as well. I guess Razib Khan follows this view. This seems to be based on the study I keep talking about. I have put a reference and some notes I made about it in my second comment.

    There may be some disagreements in the archaeological community around some of these topics. I know there is one about the origin of the Beakers even, with Iberia vs. Lower Rhine theories.

    [MORE]

    With the terminology I think it can sometimes become a little vague. e.g. Bell Beakers may refer to people sharing some culture and objects like the beakers themselves, but who may belong to largely genetically unrelated groups, or it seems like it may be used to refer to males connected with the beakers who mostly all share the same haplogroup (e.g. R-M269). This would apply outside Iberia but not within Iberia, there the males connected with the Beakers don’t all share a haplogroup, few seem to have R1b R-M269.

    Different things are possible, if more was known about the social organisation of Bell Beaker people in Iberia, did members of a certain male haplogroup constitute an identifiable warrior elite say? This might clear things up. Of if R1b R-M269 passed through Iberia on the way to the North, did they learn to become fierce warriors after leaving? If some researchers reject them migrating from the East, and some researchers reject out-of-Iberia, where could R1b R-M269 have come from? The Lower Rhine?

    I think you could be right about the phenotypes changing over time.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    @Coconuts

    The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973796/

    The Bell Beaker complex members in Iberia had little 'Steppe admixture' and they were mostly the same as the Neolithic population of Iberia.

    The Bell Beaker complex members outside Iberia had a lot more Steppe admixture. They had no identifiable Neolithic Iberian ancestry.

    Most of the male haplogroups associated with the Bell Beaker complex in Iberia never left and never spread to the part of the Bell Beaker complex outside Iberia. The only connection between the two groups is the limited amount of Steppe admixture found in some of the Iberian members.

    To say that the Bell Beaker objects and the associated cultural complex left Iberia is true, if they originated there. That the carriers of the male haplogroups associated with these objects in Iberia also left and moved into other parts of Europe is more uncertain, most of them apparently didn't. Their haplogroups are not found outside Iberia.

    The conclusion of the study is that this phenomena of genetically distinct groups with one cultural complex isn't observed with the other cultures, Yamnaya, Corded Ware etc. Bell Beaker culture is unusual in this respect. The conjecture is that the Beaker culture moved by trade or some other form of diffusion, not significant migration.

    Maybe the small quantity of men with Steppe admixture were the rulers of the Beaker complex people in Iberia, including all of the other males with different haplogroups?

    What does the term Steppe admixture refer to?

    There is disagreement between different researchers about whether certain haplogroups (e.g. the major West European one R1b1a1b R-M269) were connected to the Steppe and the Yamnaya, some argue they were, some argue against. Say if the authors of the article I am referring to use Steppe admixture to refer to presence of haplogroup R1b1a1b R-M269 they will be in disagreement with the Russian researchers who reject the idea that this haplogroup was connected with the Steppe.
    e.g.


    The genetic evidence for the extent of the role of the Yamnaya culture in the spread of Indo-European languages has however been questioned by Russian archaeologist Leo Klejn[58] and Balanovsky et al.,[59] who note a lack of male haplogroup continuity between the people of the Yamnaya culture and the contemporary populations of Europe.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture
  1116. @Coconuts
    @Mikel


    I don’t think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.
     
    It does look like this is the case.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka’s narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us?
     
    Yes, I was finding that most of the accounts I could see reject the idea of any significant migration of R1b carriers from Iberia during the Bell Beaker era as well. I guess Razib Khan follows this view. This seems to be based on the study I keep talking about. I have put a reference and some notes I made about it in my second comment.

    There may be some disagreements in the archaeological community around some of these topics. I know there is one about the origin of the Beakers even, with Iberia vs. Lower Rhine theories.

    With the terminology I think it can sometimes become a little vague. e.g. Bell Beakers may refer to people sharing some culture and objects like the beakers themselves, but who may belong to largely genetically unrelated groups, or it seems like it may be used to refer to males connected with the beakers who mostly all share the same haplogroup (e.g. R-M269). This would apply outside Iberia but not within Iberia, there the males connected with the Beakers don't all share a haplogroup, few seem to have R1b R-M269.

    Different things are possible, if more was known about the social organisation of Bell Beaker people in Iberia, did members of a certain male haplogroup constitute an identifiable warrior elite say? This might clear things up. Of if R1b R-M269 passed through Iberia on the way to the North, did they learn to become fierce warriors after leaving? If some researchers reject them migrating from the East, and some researchers reject out-of-Iberia, where could R1b R-M269 have come from? The Lower Rhine?

    I think you could be right about the phenotypes changing over time.

    Replies: @Coconuts

    The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe

    [MORE]

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973796/

    The Bell Beaker complex members in Iberia had little ‘Steppe admixture’ and they were mostly the same as the Neolithic population of Iberia.

    The Bell Beaker complex members outside Iberia had a lot more Steppe admixture. They had no identifiable Neolithic Iberian ancestry.

    Most of the male haplogroups associated with the Bell Beaker complex in Iberia never left and never spread to the part of the Bell Beaker complex outside Iberia. The only connection between the two groups is the limited amount of Steppe admixture found in some of the Iberian members.

    To say that the Bell Beaker objects and the associated cultural complex left Iberia is true, if they originated there. That the carriers of the male haplogroups associated with these objects in Iberia also left and moved into other parts of Europe is more uncertain, most of them apparently didn’t. Their haplogroups are not found outside Iberia.

    The conclusion of the study is that this phenomena of genetically distinct groups with one cultural complex isn’t observed with the other cultures, Yamnaya, Corded Ware etc. Bell Beaker culture is unusual in this respect. The conjecture is that the Beaker culture moved by trade or some other form of diffusion, not significant migration.

    Maybe the small quantity of men with Steppe admixture were the rulers of the Beaker complex people in Iberia, including all of the other males with different haplogroups?

    What does the term Steppe admixture refer to?

    There is disagreement between different researchers about whether certain haplogroups (e.g. the major West European one R1b1a1b R-M269) were connected to the Steppe and the Yamnaya, some argue they were, some argue against. Say if the authors of the article I am referring to use Steppe admixture to refer to presence of haplogroup R1b1a1b R-M269 they will be in disagreement with the Russian researchers who reject the idea that this haplogroup was connected with the Steppe.
    e.g.

    The genetic evidence for the extent of the role of the Yamnaya culture in the spread of Indo-European languages has however been questioned by Russian archaeologist Leo Klejn[58] and Balanovsky et al.,[59] who note a lack of male haplogroup continuity between the people of the Yamnaya culture and the contemporary populations of Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

    • Thanks: Mikel
  1117. Their haplogroups are not found outside Iberia.

    This is a typo and probably wrong. It should say their ancestry is not found in the part of the Beaker complex outside Iberia.

  1118. @Ivashka the fool
    @Coconuts


    Most had Steppe ancestry (I guess the R1b R-M269).
     
    The original Bell-Beaker folks around Gibraltar are only distantly related to Yamnaya and they had no steppe ancestry while conquering Iberian peninsula. Whatever steppe ancestry that is found in Spain and Portugal today, or in Great Britain for that matter, is due to Corded Ware Culture folks admixture, either among the Eastern Bell-Beaker or most probably among the Celts that have migrated to both Spain and Great Britain in the Iron Age. Of course the Celts have been followed by the Germanic Anglo-saxon in Great Britain, who were even more heavily admixed with the CWC.

    I answered Mikel already, but I am doubling the answer here: Yamnaya migration to Central and Western Europe did not alter the balance of Old European Y haplogroups. And it did not change the phenotype. The Corded Ware migration to Central Europe had much more impact. But the dominant culture in Western Europe was the Megalithic one during Yamnaya and Corded Ware Culture migration period and this did not change until the BB folks moved in from the South-west.

    These two waves of migration are separated by nearly a thousand years and should not be conflated. Unfortunately most people do conflate them because of the faulty Kurgan theory of Gambutas. She formulated her theory when the Y haplogroups were unknown. The study of the haplogroups has proven her wrong. Old Europe has not been destroyed by some steppe invaders.

    The Bell-Beaker have never been to the steppe, they came from the southernmost extremity of Western Europe. They probably crossed the Gibraltar arriving from the Maghreb. Then they moved East in Europe and also somewhat later into the British Isles. It has been noted that the earliest Bell-Beaker finds in Europe were often located clloser to some major rivers, which would have been logical for a maritime population. Later on, after several generations, the Bell-Beaker in Central Europe became accomplished cavalry fighters. But it was not the case in their earliest days. However, they have probably always been excellent archers.

    The steppe ancestry of the later (Eastern) Bell-Beaker folks is most probably entirely deeived from the subjugated Corded Ware Culture females with whom the BB males mated in Central Europe for hundreds of years. This mix eventually led to the Celts through first Unetice Culture and then La Tène and Hallstatt Cultures. The Celts then spread accross Europe in all directions, including British Isles and Spain where a Bell-Beaker descended (proto-Basque) population was already well settled for nearly two millenia. Celts were able to conquer and colonize the British Isles, but not so much the ancestors of the Basque. Celts were mostly R1b too, but they spoke an Indo-European language that became the prevalent language of Central Europe in Unetice Culture period and was derived from the proto-Indo-European spoken by the Corded Ware Culture folks. And Celts were actually a BB / CWC métis population, who have obviously carried the CWC derived steppe ancestry.

    Moreover, I believe that the leucoderm phenotype, in both the Yamnaya and the Corded Ware Culture descendents, is due to their admixture with a non Y haplogroup R population that has evolved in the environment that favored a fair complexion. The most probable environment for that is the one in the modern day Doggerland region. When it was flooded at the end of the Ice Age, early Neolithic, the local people escaped to Northern Europe. Then they intermixed with both the Corded Ware Culture and Bell-Beaker folks. These fair phenotype people might have been (most probably) the Y haplogroup I people of the Megalithic Europe. Or it might have been some other population that inhabited the North Sea and Baltic Sea shores before the migration of Y haplogroup R people into that region.

    It's that simple.

    Replies: @Mikel

    It’s that simple.

    No, it’s not, I’m afraid.

    I am trying to reconcile what you write with what I read in Wikipedia and I think I am more confused than before.


    The Kurgan hypothesis (also known as the Kurgan theory, Kurgan model, or steppe theory) is the most widely accepted proposal to identify the Proto-Indo-European homeland from which the Indo-European languages spread out throughout Europe and parts of Asia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

    So the Kurgan hypothesis doesn’t deal with genetics too much and is still widely accepted.

    Haplogroup R1b, especially subclades of R1b-M269, is the most common Y-DNA haplogroup found among both the Yamnaya and modern-day Western Europeans.
    ../..
    People of the Yamnaya culture are believed to have had mostly brown eye colour, light to intermediate skin, and brown hair colour, with some variation.
    ../..
    Yamnaya autosomal characteristics are very close to the Corded Ware culture people, with an estimated 73% ancestral contribution from the Yamnaya DNA in the DNA of Corded Ware skeletons from Germany. The same study estimated a (38.8–50.4 %) ancestral contribution of the Yamnaya in the DNA of modern Central, and Northern Europeans, and an 18.5–32.6 % contribution in modern Southern Europeans
    ../..
    Studies that analysed ancient human remains in Ireland and Portugal support the thesis that R-M269 was introduced in these places along with autosomal DNA from the Eastern European steppes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

    Basically, everything highlighted above puts upside down our previous discussion and your account of events. Particularly the fact that R1b and its main European clade R-M269 became predominant in parts of Southwest Europe and the British Islands through the Yamnaya, who in turn were very closely related to the Corded Ware people at the autosomal level.

    IOW, the main event of substitution of male lineages in both Britain and Iberia came from Eastern Europe rather than the other way around.

    And both R1a and R1b have their origins in the Steppe area anyway:

    According to ancient DNA studies, most R1a and R1b lineages would have expanded from the Caspian Sea along with the Indo-European languages.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Geographical_distribution

    I wouldn’t use Wikipedia as a reliable source for anything where political correctness is involved but I don’t see much scope for that type of distortion in this discussion. Wiki acknowledges different theories but, in general, I think that it puts several holes in the West-BB-R1b versus East-CW-R1a narrative that you put forth above, as does Coconut’s latest contribution. It also questions some of the assumptions I had about the origins and evolution of my people. Much more reading to do, I guess.

  1119. First we have to look into the details, because this is where the devil is as usual.

    (Click on the image if it doesn’t appear correctly or go R1b Eupedia page)

    Here’s the R1b haplogroup phylogenetic tree.

    Can you locate Yamnaya and the Beakers on that three ?

    Let’s try together if you will:

    According to Russian Wiki about Yamnaya:

    In 11 people, the Y-chromosomal haplogroup R1b (subclades R1b1a2a2-Z2103 (8), R1b1a2-M269 (1), R1b1a2a-L23* (1) and R1b1a-P297* (1)) and the haplogroup I2a2-S12195 (this sample) were found from the locality of Ulan IV in the Rostov region most likely refers to the Western Manych Catacomb culture)[18][25]. Subclade I2a2a1b1b was found in the western “pit” (Bul4, 3012-2900 BC) from the Bulgarian Mednikarovo[26]. Mitochondrial haplogroups C4a2 and U5 were found in samples from the Lyubash and Revova localities [27]. Y-DNA haplogroups R1a and J were also found.[28]

    As you can see most Yamnaya were R1b of the Z2103 clade.

    Now the Beakers.

    From the English Wiki about them:

    Furtwängler et al. (2020) analysed 96 ancient genomes from Switzerland, Southern Germany, and the Alsace region in France, covering the Middle/Late Neolithic to Early Bronze Age. They confirmed that R1b arrived in the region during the transitory Bell Beaker period (2800-1800 BC). The vast majority of Bell Beaker R1b samples belonged to the U152 > L2 clade (11 out of 14; the other being P312 or L51).[52

    As we can see, most BB folks around modern day France were of ckade U152 > L2, while the remaining 3 have been assigned to the ancestral P312 that is upstream of both the “Italo – Gaulish” and the “Ibero – Atlantic” branches. Basically early BB would have been P312.

    As you can see yourself, Most Yamnaya men were absolutely unrelated to the Bell-Beakers. Among the 11 Yamnaya analyzed, only one man (of clade M269) could have been related to the BB, while most others belonged to the “Eastern European and Western Asian” branch.

    The clade M269, ancestral to the BB was a minority clade among Yamnaya. The BB are only distantly related to the Yamnaya. Yamnaya mostly belonged to the Eastern Europe and Western Asia.

    It’s exactly what I wrote in my comments: the Yamnaya and the Beakers only distantly related, Yamnaya not really going into Western Europe and therefore the Kurgan hypothesis of “Eastern steppe invaders” being nullified.

    Now the real question is how the BB appeared in Iberian peninsula and on the North African shore. Where did these early Maritime Bell-Beaker folks come from.

    An interesting take below:

    [MORE]

    The inspiration for the Maritime Bell Beaker is argued to have been the small and earlier Copoz beakers that have impressed decoration and which are found widely around the Tagus estuary in Portugal. Turek sees late Neolithic precursors in northern Africa, arguing the Maritime style emerged as a result of seaborne contacts between Iberia and Morocco in the first half of the third millennium BCE. However, radiocarbon dating from North African sites is lacking for the most part.

    AOO and AOC Beakers appear to have evolved continually from pre-Beaker period in the lower Rhine and North Sea regions, at least for Northern and Central Europe.

    Furthermore, the burial ritual which typified Bell Beaker sites was intrusive into Western Europe. Individual burials, often under tumuli burials, with the inclusion of weapons contrast markedly to the preceding Neolithic traditions of often collective, weaponless burials in Atlantic/Western Europe. Such an arrangement is rather derivative of Corded Ware traditions, although instead of ‘battle-axes’, Bell Beaker individuals used copper daggers.

    Overall, all these elements (Iberian-derived maritime ceramic styles, AOC and AOO ceramic styles, and ‘eastern’ burial ritual symbolism) appear to have first fused in the Lower Rhine region.

    The initial moves from the Tagus estuary were maritime. A southern move led to the Mediterranean where ‘enclaves’ were established in south-western Spain and southern France around the Golfe du Lion and into the Po valley in Italy probably via ancient western Alpine trade routes used to distribute Jadeite axes. A northern move incorporated the southern coast of Armorica. The enclave established in southern Brittany was linked closely to the riverine and landward route via the Loire and across the Gâtinais valley to the Seine valley and thence to the lower Rhine. This was a long-established route reflected in early stone axe distributions and it was via this network that Maritime Bell Beakers first reached the Lower Rhine in about 2600 BC.

    Another pulse had brought Bell Beaker to Csepel Island in Hungary by about 2500 BC. In the Carpathian Basin the Bell Beaker culture came in contact with communities such as the Vučedol culture, which had evolved partly from the Yamna culture, and therefore shared the same type of metallurgy practised by Bell Beaker metal-workers. But in contrast to the early Bell Beaker preference for the dagger and bow, the favourite weapon in the Carpathian Basin during the first half of the 3rd millennium was the shaft-hole axe. Here Bell Beaker people assimilated local pottery forms such as the polypod cup. These “common ware” types of pottery then spread in association with the classic bell beaker. From the Carpathian Basin Bell Beaker spread down the Rhine and eastwards into what is now Germany and Poland. By this time the Rhine was on the western edge of the vast Corded Ware zone. The Corded Ware Culture shared a number of features with the Bell Beaker Culture, derived from their common ancestor the Yamna culture. These features include pottery decorated with cord impressions, single burial and the shaft-hole axe. A review in 2014 revealed that single burial, communal burial and reuse of Neolithic burial sites are found throughout the Bell Beaker zone. This overturns a previous conviction that single burial was unknown in the early or southern Bell Beaker zone, and so must have been adopted from Corded Ware in the contact zone of the Lower Rhine, and transmitted westwards along the exchange networks from the Rhine to the Loire, and northwards across the English Channel to Britain.

    The earliest copper production in Ireland, identified at Ross Island in the period 2400-2200 BC, was associated with early Beaker pottery. Here the local sulpharsenide ores were smelted to produce the first copper axes used in Britain and Ireland. The same technologies were used in the Tagus region and in the west and south of France. The evidence is sufficient to support the suggestion that the initial spread of Maritime Bell Beakers along the Atlantic and into the Mediterranean, using sea routes that had long been in operation, was directly associated with the quest for copper and other rare raw materials. Migration vs. acculturation

    Again quite similar to my previous comments, even though much more detailed.

    https://cof.quantumfuturegroup.org/events/5425

    I suggest that if we still want ro keep discussing the BB and CWC, we relocate to the other thread.

  1120. @AP
    @Dmitry


    "annihilatory R1B spirit"

    Honestly, how can you be a medical worker in a developed country like America, if you are such a stupid and untrained scientifically person?
     
    My, you have really been triggered by that discussion. Your emotions led you to write the uncharacteristically stupid comment below:

    For example, haplogroups on Y-chromosome will be tracing paternal-paternal-paternal*40 to the ancient people discussed.
     
    An R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b ancestor 40 generations ago, and who based on this would be expected to behave a certain way. That was not implied in my comment.

    Secondly, extrapolation of behavior from people (by father-father-father *40 relationship) from prehistory that we know only little about them, to try to explain Protestantism (which arrives from the invention of printing press and people reading the Bible) and Woke theory
     
    You are reasoning like an autistic person, very concretely.

    Ivashka was noticing a pattern of R1b societies behaving a certain way, and contrasting this with R1a societies. He sees that these patterns have been present for thousands of years, across different R1b and R1a societies. It's a very interesting observation. I pointed out that if so, the R1b style is moderated by Catholicism but accentuated by Protestantism. That is, it is not absolute.

    That Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

    they can be behaving like pacifists (Germany and Japan in 2023) or militarists (Germany and Japan in 1943)
     
    You stay on the surface. In both cases Germans are methodical, extreme, and ruthless in their pursuit, even if the pursuits differ. Wokism practiced by the descendants of Puritans is completely different on the surface from Puritan Calvinism, but it shares the same essence.

    And you don’t have genetically different behavior explaining
     
    Where did I claim that genetics played any causal role here? That R1b on Y chromosomes would somehow cause a certain collective political behavior? Why did your emotions lead you to make such a dumb assumption? Are you drunk? You are usually not capable of such nonsense.

    R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Ivashka identified certain patterns of behavior of these peoples, that have persisted over millenia despite changes in languages and religions. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.

    Replies: @Coconuts, @Dmitry

    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He’s asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch “Ancient Apocalypse”.

    But you are medical worker in America so you shouldn’t need me to wrote the paragraph below.

    R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b.. R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.

    In terms of relation of modern populations to these haplogroups on Y-chromosome, there are many populations which are more related to the ancient people who had the haplogroup, which have lower rates of the haplogroup today, than other populations with higher rates of the haplogroup.

    In the example modern Ukrainians will be genetically closer to the populations which had R1b 120 generations ago, than many populations which have higher rates of the haplogroup today.

    Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

    It’s true “Wokism” has similar ideals as Christianity and can feel a bit like a secular version, although the belief in equality not only in Christianity, it can also other religions and secular views. It isn’t closer to Protestantism than Catholicism. Movements like “liberation theology” are more in the Catholic sphere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    But you nowadays identified to Catholicism, while said you dislike “Wokism”. Therefore, to boost the ego, “Wokism” will be related to Protestantism.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He’s asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch “Ancient Apocalypse”.
     
    You really think that I wrote everything I did just as an elaborate trolling ?

    It’s true “Wokism” has similar ideals as Christianity
     
    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith. I write this as an outsider because I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote - "a heathen and an apostate".

    Funny though that you, being an outsider too, given your Judaic roots and materialistic and rationalist inclinations, do not discern the spiritual overtones of Wokism that are obviously Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path oriented. Both Wokism and Christianity are spiritual in their essence, but they have completely opposite natures and goals.

    No offense, but I believe you might be too limited by materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition.

    Perhaps you Should try Kabbalah or something that would get you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have an outstanding intelligence and you are a good-natured person. You are not "dumb matter", you are not a "machine", but a living Spirit. Perhaps it is time you open up and let the Light shine in...

    https://youtu.be/mAofCx8w2oU

    Б-г в помощь, Дима !

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

  1121. @LatW
    @Dmitry

    That's right - today is Men's day! The day of defender in Russia.

    Мужайся!

    I know, I probably shouldn't say this but the guy in the second video is quite cute. Even though he's lip synching. I wonder if it's a real soldier rapper since he has all those medals.

    Btw, Dima, did you hear the original, legendary Гойда! scream? It was performed in the beginning of the SMO.

    As to the more stern image of women in Art Nouveau (and later), I like it a lot when it's not overdone (it shows the human being in a sublime way), but I like Mucha very much and the women in his drawings were still feminine.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music.

    Or a fake imitation of Irish singers and American rappers for songs about Mariupol with Swedish musical equipment synthesizers behind them.

    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.

    Or you know, Maccabees, will rebel against the globalizing culture of Hellenistic Judaism, when they begin rebellion with the Seleucid Empire.

    While in the Russian Federation it has been accelerating importing of Western culture. It will be a kind of parallel import or import substitution for the Western product. It’s like a province rebelling against the Roman empire, saying “we will build our native Roman baths, toga and aquaducts”. Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or “mafia wars”, than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times

    • LOL: Yahya
    • Replies: @LatW
    @Dmitry


    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music
     
    These lyrics are really scary. Just as scary as the Ukrainian ones on the other side.

    😭😭😭

    You do have a point about Western musical influences, but there are purist Russian musicians on the pro-Russian side, too. There is one that I really used to like, Pelagiya. Here's a slightly gothic one she did that is really cool:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5C1MnUJVuQ

    Also, Ruki Vverh could be considered a kind of a techno band with a distinct East Slavic character. The early version from 20 years ago was kind of good if you're into that туц тац genre, they are old and tacky now (although it appears they are still extremely popular).


    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.
     
    You are generally correct, there is a lot of import of Western culture. But it's not like there are no authentic ones. I used to listen to a lot of Russian folk rock and still occasionally do. There have been a few recent examples of a Nordic - Russian blend which I kind of like.

    Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or “mafia wars”, than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times
     
    They will take whatever they can from the West, but will still build out their isolated anti-Western culture. It is strange but unfortunately understandable given the circumstances. What I prefer for my people, is to not be anti-Western, but still be able to build out the authentic, preferably unadulterated culture.

    My beloved Masha Scream doing one of my all time favorite songs, Zimushka Zima, a capella:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L-MdPRpslc

    , @QCIC
    @Dmitry

    I heard that rock music was actually invented in Russia.

    The Soviets exported it to subvert the West.

    P.A.C.

  1122. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    I could never fully fathom the German obsession with cleanness too
     
    Well, Poles are more cleanly than Ukrainians, who are more cleanly than Russians (and within Ukraine, Galicians are the cleanest). Those of us who have visited Russian, Ukrainian, and Polish villages can attest to that. Does it correspond to R1b contribution to each population (both literal in terms of descent, and cultural via influence).

    But actual Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks. Wasn’t anyone going to sweep it up?

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Dmitry

    German cities are not unusually clean at least for Northern Europe levels. They are maybe on the European average. I think you confuse them with Switzerland.

    Germans are a different world. A German friend was once remarking how on a trip to Tunisia with German friends they were all horrified by the amount of sand on the sidewalks.

    People who choose for their vacation to go to the Middle East and then complain about sand there? I guess their next vacation will be complaining about the ice in Greenland. Idiots exist in every nationality, but it is not accurate to say they are representative of their nationality.

  1123. @LatW
    @Dmitry


    Who is “we”?
     
    The pro-Ukrainian coalition, but above all, the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    If “we” could control these things we would haven’t war.
     
    There were a lot of mistakes, but probably even correcting those mistakes would not have avoided a war. Some of these things had to be done in 1991.

    Although the equipment is limited I’m not sure it would not continue in a lower-level of war for more time than 31st of December 2023.
     
    Unfortunately, this is not excluded, there could be low level skirmishes for a long time and hypothetically even bombings from Russia. But it won't be like now with up to a 1000 dying per day. Either way, it is horrific. Russians and Ukrainians are now like Serbs and Croats, like Jews and Palestinians.

    On the Russian side, in terms of potential soldiers, there are a very large supply, but in terms of the equipment, probably more than half of the working tanks in the Russian army were destroyed.
     
    It's not just the equipment and supplies. The Russians are struggling at the sergeant level as well as on the logistics side. A large portion of the professional troops is now gone, but these new mobilized ones will not be trained into effective sergeants so quickly as that takes years and a certain motivation.

    I wonder what the Ukrainian General Staff have in mind. It might happen quickly at one point when they are ready. And then it will be too late for RusFed.


    On the Ukrainian side, numbers of potential soldiers will be multiple times less than in Russia, but in terms of the equipment, the supply will be increasing this year and also becoming more advanced (which will continue if Trump or Desantis don’t win the presidential election in 2024 and even possibly if they will be winning).
     
    It might be that what De Santis and Trump are saying is just for the election purposes. But either way, the hope is to complete everything before the US elections.

    A recent historical, case can be the Iran–Iraq War, which they have been fighting for 8 years, with different levels of intensity in different years.
     
    Unfortunately, it's an accurate comparison, but it would be a bad scenario, there is already more than enough pain.

    Populist Republicans copy more views of Trump, where they believe China is the threat for the USA and the border with Mexico is more important than foreign borders.
     
    These are pure campaign slogans. The last time they were talking a lot about fentanyl in the pre-election debates - has that problem been solved yet? I have no issue with these agendas whatsoever - the US would do well to reinvigorate its industries and not rely on China so much and to take care of the border would be good, too. But for Ukraine and her EE friends, we will have to figure out what to do with the Republicans long term but it would be good to learn to live without relying so much on the US - Ukraine needs to reinstate its MIC and the rest need to prioritize their defense.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    Unfortunately, this is not excluded

    A lot of the weapons they are giving Ukraine will only enter in the end of 2023 or 2024.

    31 American Abrams tanks are going to Ukraine which may be in 2024.
    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/02/23/tanks-might-not-reach-ukraine-this-year-us-army-secretary-says/

    Western countries are also planning to increase building of 155mm artillery shells by the end of 2023.

    You could say this is more limitation than planning, because they cannot ramp production before end of 2023. But, these plans seem like they are at least preparing for this war to increase in 2024. This also gives motive for Ukraine to prepare for fighting in 2024, as this will be when they are attaining more modern equipment.

    I wonder what the Ukrainian General Staff have i

    There will be Bradley vehicles in Ukraine already in 2023. France and Denmark are giving Ceasar artillery to Ukraine. There is some articles saying possibly Great Britain could give them Storm Shadow cruise missiles (which could be this year). https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-uk-to-give-kyiv-longer-range-weapons

    But Russia is building defending fortifications and the number of Western tanks will be small in Ukraine this year.

    It will be in 2024 Ukraine will have a lot of modern equipment including the access to the higher production of 155mm shells.

    By then Russia will have more available soldiers, although not necessarily more equipment.

  1124. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.
     
    I don't think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We've all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn't have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven't received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka's narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka's view (I'm not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let's assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can't use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven’t received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult

    .

    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people. In case of sedentary population, any incursion by Rh+ men and an attempt at settlement there with captured Rh- women would end in the majority of offspring dying. Since people at that time did not know about Rhesus factor, that could produce a “bad legend” of Basques, as kind of “untouchables”, which would further protect them.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people.
     
    I've read about that hypothesis somewhere in the past but I don't think it's valid. Since the 19th century, when the industrial revolution took hold in the Basque Country, lots of people emigrated there and in many cases intermixed with the locals, not so much at the beginning, but with time we've ended up in a situation where most of the inhabitants in the Basque Country either have outside roots or are mixed. This serological problem should have applied to these latest newcomers but there are no signs of it. Likewise, Basques have for centuries emigrated abroad, particularly to the Americas, and there are nowadays many more descendants of Basques in Latin America and the US than in Europe, with no visible impact of the Rh- issue.

    In fact, my limited understanding is that the high incidence of Rh- in the Basque Country is precisely a consequence of our long isolation as a small group. I suppose that, even though the Catholic Church was very strict with consanguinity matters, there must have been a certain amount of inbreeding in ancient times which perhaps favored the spread of that recessive trait but I don't have the necessary medical knowledge about these matters so this is just a guess.

    But I am curious how such “Atlantean origins” theories are popular among Basques themselves…?
     
    No, no such myths. There are lots of ancient myths and remnants of pagan traditions, as is common in groups with a long history, but as far as I can remember, they are all very self-centered and often related to well known geographic features of our land.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

  1125. @Mikel
    @Coconuts


    I remember this as well. Until fairly recently when I started coming across discussions of Steppe migrations, I still thought that the Basque origin for the Celtic British was the standard account.
     
    I don't think geneticists have all this figured out. Every new discovery they make seems to paint a more complicated picture than was previously thought.

    For starters, there is ample evidence that R1b became dominant in Western Europe due to Steppe invaders basically replacing the existing male population. We've all read about this in the news. But it turns out that the places with the highest percentage of R1b today are precisely the ones farther away from the Steppe, the last corners of Europe close to the Atlantic that the Steppe people must have found it most difficult to reach and where, indeed, subsequent invasions had the least impact, hence the persistence of the Basque and Celtic languages.

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of this paradox. Perhaps the only way to reconcile these facts is that subsequent population movements in Western Europe didn't have as much of an impact as the R1b invasion and thus left the westernmost areas unaffected. I think this is the current view regarding the Basques. Former Unz contributor and famous geneticist Razib Khan once posted an article somewhere saying that the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven't received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult.

    Likewise, this theory goes totally against Ivashka's narrative of cruel R1b warriors expanding to Europe from the South. According to it, the most impactful invasion in Western Europe actually came from the East. Perhaps he will solve the conundrum for us? Is he saying that the warriorlike R1b people first came to the Southwest from Eastern Europe and then, after acquiring some cultural elements with Northern African origins, marched all the way back to the Vistula, where they were stopped by the R1a people (another group with Eurasian steppe origins)?

    The other problem with Ivashka's view (I'm not sure what the current consensus says about this) is the already mentioned simplistic assignment of phenotypes to ancient groups. In the British Islands things get complicated by subsequent invasions but the way I understand things, people in the Basque Country before the Steppe invasion must have been dark descendants of Neolithic farmers with some hunter-gatherer admixture. Then the lighter R1b invaders replaced the male population. Let's assume a model where all the original population had dark eyes and all the newcomers had light eyes and a 50-50% distribution of both elements that then intermixed until the present day with no exterior admixture. Blue eyes are a recessive trait that should dilute in the population over time. Under these circumstances, how do you arrive from a ~50% prevalence to a ~25-30% several millennia later, that is what we observe? My (very uneducated) guess is that this trait must have already be present in the original population and that you can't use too simplistic models of phenotype propagation in Europe through ancient cultural phenomena like Bell Beakers.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Coconuts, @Another Polish Perspective, @Another Polish Perspective

    The paradox is true. It is truly amazing how adventurous those early R1b beakers were, travelling back and forth between Europe and Africa, whereas Mayans had never really reached North America, despite Nature attacking their Central American cities – their motivation for travel should have been strong.

    I still think some land west of Europe and Africa, not the wading area of Dogger Bank as Ivashka wants, could be the origin of non-steppe-admixture R1b people. After all volcanic Azores are just peaks of a ridge, and the legend of Atlantis says that it submerged due to renewed volcanic activity. Such a research direction may not be too popular since it would mean that Europe can be submerged as well – after all there are large, dormant volcanoes in Europe. One volcanic zone supposedly stretches from German Eifel to Berlins “Muggelsee”: that would be only fitting, as Germans are so haughty as Atlanteans supposedly were.

    But I am curious how such “Atlantean origins” theories are popular among Basques themselves…?

  1126. @Dmitry
    @AP

    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He's asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch "Ancient Apocalypse".

    But you are medical worker in America so you shouldn't need me to wrote the paragraph below.


    R1b people would be a people where this ancestry would be predominant. Not any random person, who might have had a single R1b.. R1b is simply a marker, identifying particular peoples who have existed for thousands of years. Patterns that differentiate these peoples from those peoples who can be identified by the R1a marker.
     
    In terms of relation of modern populations to these haplogroups on Y-chromosome, there are many populations which are more related to the ancient people who had the haplogroup, which have lower rates of the haplogroup today, than other populations with higher rates of the haplogroup.

    In the example modern Ukrainians will be genetically closer to the populations which had R1b 120 generations ago, than many populations which have higher rates of the haplogroup today.


    Wokism is an offshoot of Protestantism is rather obvious and not noticed first by me.

     

    It's true "Wokism" has similar ideals as Christianity and can feel a bit like a secular version, although the belief in equality not only in Christianity, it can also other religions and secular views. It isn't closer to Protestantism than Catholicism. Movements like "liberation theology" are more in the Catholic sphere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    But you nowadays identified to Catholicism, while said you dislike "Wokism". Therefore, to boost the ego, "Wokism" will be related to Protestantism.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He’s asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch “Ancient Apocalypse”.

    You really think that I wrote everything I did just as an elaborate trolling ?

    It’s true “Wokism” has similar ideals as Christianity

    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith. I write this as an outsider because I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote – “a heathen and an apostate”.

    Funny though that you, being an outsider too, given your Judaic roots and materialistic and rationalist inclinations, do not discern the spiritual overtones of Wokism that are obviously Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path oriented. Both Wokism and Christianity are spiritual in their essence, but they have completely opposite natures and goals.

    No offense, but I believe you might be too limited by materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition.

    Perhaps you Should try Kabbalah or something that would get you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have an outstanding intelligence and you are a good-natured person. You are not “dumb matter”, you are not a “machine”, but a living Spirit. Perhaps it is time you open up and let the Light shine in…

    Б-г в помощь, Дима !

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    Also here, Rebbe Daniel explains who our Lord Jesus was according to the Judaic reading of the Bible.

    https://youtu.be/gxhfgT_541M



    I would add that from the pov of the Buddhadharma, Our Lord Jesus could be seen as a Great Bodhisattva - Mahasattva that operated Transfer of Merit on an unprecedented scale, leading to the actualization of his own Buddhaland for his followers and disciples to find refuge and solace, and to continue their path through Theosis towards the final liberation.

    https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780195393521/obo-9780195393521-0222.xml

    https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/78

    Reading Gospels is a very good thing to do. Just don't read them as a rationalist would. That would be defiling the Scripture.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    , @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    I did just as an elaborate trolling
     
    You were writing about Godel ten posts ago so you have a lot of scientific interest. So, you know the haplogroup on the Y-chromosome are interesting historically as a kind of "fossil" of an event in that epoch (for example, an invasion), but it doesn't have matching of the genetic similarity of the modern populations or nationalities.

    Maybe I should feel bad I introduced this in the discussion, just before AP was going to say "Ukrainians do not have the contamination of annihilatory genetics". But you were guilty the previous example https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn/#comment-4928507


    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith
     
    I would say similar to Christianity for many people, causally related, as including secular liberal version of the Christian socialism movements of the 20th century. Although other things like upper class 19th century politeness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrVlrZX4UsI.). And the inquisitions.

    There is reason it feels natural for the population in countries like Western Europe which have the generations of secular versions of the previous religion.

    But it's not a specific (excluding things like inqusition) for Christianity, but similar to most religions, which promote for universalism and equality, this same can be written by a Buddhist. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203%3A28&version=NIV

    But similarity not necessarily more for Protestant or in Catholic tradition. In the 20th century, Catholic tradition has more of the social teaching which is adaptable to the secular political ideologies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology


    I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote – “a heathen and an apostate”.
     
    Well, there is the writer of the "Anti-Christ" ideology, although nowadays it is also quite common in America since at least in the second half of the 20th century.

    though that you, being an outsider too,
     
    Why outsider? Nobody is giving me the PhD for theological studies. But I know the religion more than most people nowadays (especially compared to some here), know the ruins of the places where the religion is writing about, am in church more often than an average person, actually was baptized (but that can more of a negative in the context of where and when) which is unusual.

    Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path
     
    I don't know this distinction. I'm left-handed and I was wondering about which people could be "my people" if we categorized using those things. According to the positive stereotype, we are supposed to be more poetic personalities.

    you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have

     


    materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition
     
    You know from our conversation I was reading more religion than many other people. I am going to religious holy places.

    You don't have to worry too much about my soul, because you have a different view about "Wokism". By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums' visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  1127. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He’s asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch “Ancient Apocalypse”.
     
    You really think that I wrote everything I did just as an elaborate trolling ?

    It’s true “Wokism” has similar ideals as Christianity
     
    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith. I write this as an outsider because I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote - "a heathen and an apostate".

    Funny though that you, being an outsider too, given your Judaic roots and materialistic and rationalist inclinations, do not discern the spiritual overtones of Wokism that are obviously Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path oriented. Both Wokism and Christianity are spiritual in their essence, but they have completely opposite natures and goals.

    No offense, but I believe you might be too limited by materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition.

    Perhaps you Should try Kabbalah or something that would get you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have an outstanding intelligence and you are a good-natured person. You are not "dumb matter", you are not a "machine", but a living Spirit. Perhaps it is time you open up and let the Light shine in...

    https://youtu.be/mAofCx8w2oU

    Б-г в помощь, Дима !

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    Also here, Rebbe Daniel explains who our Lord Jesus was according to the Judaic reading of the Bible.

    [MORE]

    I would add that from the pov of the Buddhadharma, Our Lord Jesus could be seen as a Great Bodhisattva – Mahasattva that operated Transfer of Merit on an unprecedented scale, leading to the actualization of his own Buddhaland for his followers and disciples to find refuge and solace, and to continue their path through Theosis towards the final liberation.

    https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780195393521/obo-9780195393521-0222.xml

    https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/78

    Reading Gospels is a very good thing to do. Just don’t read them as a rationalist would. That would be defiling the Scripture.

    • Replies: @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    One last thing, before I forget. What Rebbe Daniel says here about Our Lord Jesus, is also entirely reasonable from the pov of Islamic teaching as well.

    Sapienti sat...

  1128. @Ivashka the fool
    @Ivashka the fool

    Also here, Rebbe Daniel explains who our Lord Jesus was according to the Judaic reading of the Bible.

    https://youtu.be/gxhfgT_541M



    I would add that from the pov of the Buddhadharma, Our Lord Jesus could be seen as a Great Bodhisattva - Mahasattva that operated Transfer of Merit on an unprecedented scale, leading to the actualization of his own Buddhaland for his followers and disciples to find refuge and solace, and to continue their path through Theosis towards the final liberation.

    https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/display/document/obo-9780195393521/obo-9780195393521-0222.xml

    https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/78

    Reading Gospels is a very good thing to do. Just don't read them as a rationalist would. That would be defiling the Scripture.

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool

    One last thing, before I forget. What Rebbe Daniel says here about Our Lord Jesus, is also entirely reasonable from the pov of Islamic teaching as well.

    Sapienti sat

  1129. @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel


    the only peculiarity of the Basques with regards to their neighbors is that they practically haven’t received any new genetic contribution since the Iron Age. This is itself a mystery because the orography of the Western Pyrenees is not singularly difficult
     
    .


    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people. In case of sedentary population, any incursion by Rh+ men and an attempt at settlement there with captured Rh- women would end in the majority of offspring dying. Since people at that time did not know about Rhesus factor, that could produce a "bad legend" of Basques, as kind of "untouchables", which would further protect them.

    Replies: @Mikel

    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people.

    I’ve read about that hypothesis somewhere in the past but I don’t think it’s valid. Since the 19th century, when the industrial revolution took hold in the Basque Country, lots of people emigrated there and in many cases intermixed with the locals, not so much at the beginning, but with time we’ve ended up in a situation where most of the inhabitants in the Basque Country either have outside roots or are mixed. This serological problem should have applied to these latest newcomers but there are no signs of it. Likewise, Basques have for centuries emigrated abroad, particularly to the Americas, and there are nowadays many more descendants of Basques in Latin America and the US than in Europe, with no visible impact of the Rh- issue.

    In fact, my limited understanding is that the high incidence of Rh- in the Basque Country is precisely a consequence of our long isolation as a small group. I suppose that, even though the Catholic Church was very strict with consanguinity matters, there must have been a certain amount of inbreeding in ancient times which perhaps favored the spread of that recessive trait but I don’t have the necessary medical knowledge about these matters so this is just a guess.

    But I am curious how such “Atlantean origins” theories are popular among Basques themselves…?

    No, no such myths. There are lots of ancient myths and remnants of pagan traditions, as is common in groups with a long history, but as far as I can remember, they are all very self-centered and often related to well known geographic features of our land.

    • Replies: @Another Polish Perspective
    @Mikel


    Likewise, Basques have for centuries emigrated abroad, particularly to the Americas, and there are nowadays many more descendants of Basques in Latin America and the US than in Europe, with no visible impact of the Rh- issue.
     
    Yes, but that were mostly men and serological conflict appears only if a woman is Rh- and a man RH+.

    Rh- corresponds well with the fact that highest share of blood type among Basques is 0, which is the oldest blood type (AB is the youngest). So Basques are rather old people.

    However, in general RH- factor is really unusual and points to at least two groups of hominids which originally were incompatible with each other - the only evolutionary reason something like that could exist is to prevent mixing of similar species.

  1130. @Mikel
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Maybe they received such a contribution (After all, Basques are not 100% R1b) but the offspring died due to the serological conflict. Basques are the famous Rh- people.
     
    I've read about that hypothesis somewhere in the past but I don't think it's valid. Since the 19th century, when the industrial revolution took hold in the Basque Country, lots of people emigrated there and in many cases intermixed with the locals, not so much at the beginning, but with time we've ended up in a situation where most of the inhabitants in the Basque Country either have outside roots or are mixed. This serological problem should have applied to these latest newcomers but there are no signs of it. Likewise, Basques have for centuries emigrated abroad, particularly to the Americas, and there are nowadays many more descendants of Basques in Latin America and the US than in Europe, with no visible impact of the Rh- issue.

    In fact, my limited understanding is that the high incidence of Rh- in the Basque Country is precisely a consequence of our long isolation as a small group. I suppose that, even though the Catholic Church was very strict with consanguinity matters, there must have been a certain amount of inbreeding in ancient times which perhaps favored the spread of that recessive trait but I don't have the necessary medical knowledge about these matters so this is just a guess.

    But I am curious how such “Atlantean origins” theories are popular among Basques themselves…?
     
    No, no such myths. There are lots of ancient myths and remnants of pagan traditions, as is common in groups with a long history, but as far as I can remember, they are all very self-centered and often related to well known geographic features of our land.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective

    Likewise, Basques have for centuries emigrated abroad, particularly to the Americas, and there are nowadays many more descendants of Basques in Latin America and the US than in Europe, with no visible impact of the Rh- issue.

    Yes, but that were mostly men and serological conflict appears only if a woman is Rh- and a man RH+.

    Rh- corresponds well with the fact that highest share of blood type among Basques is 0, which is the oldest blood type (AB is the youngest). So Basques are rather old people.

    However, in general RH- factor is really unusual and points to at least two groups of hominids which originally were incompatible with each other – the only evolutionary reason something like that could exist is to prevent mixing of similar species.

  1131. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYQQsq-qEQ

    Or a fake imitation of Irish singers and American rappers for songs about Mariupol with Swedish musical equipment synthesizers behind them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZP4v-OhEI

    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.

    Or you know, Maccabees, will rebel against the globalizing culture of Hellenistic Judaism, when they begin rebellion with the Seleucid Empire.

    While in the Russian Federation it has been accelerating importing of Western culture. It will be a kind of parallel import or import substitution for the Western product. It's like a province rebelling against the Roman empire, saying "we will build our native Roman baths, toga and aquaducts". Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or "mafia wars", than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times

    Replies: @LatW, @QCIC

    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music

    These lyrics are really scary. Just as scary as the Ukrainian ones on the other side.

    😭😭😭

    [MORE]

    You do have a point about Western musical influences, but there are purist Russian musicians on the pro-Russian side, too. There is one that I really used to like, Pelagiya. Here’s a slightly gothic one she did that is really cool:

    Also, Ruki Vverh could be considered a kind of a techno band with a distinct East Slavic character. The early version from 20 years ago was kind of good if you’re into that туц тац genre, they are old and tacky now (although it appears they are still extremely popular).

    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.

    You are generally correct, there is a lot of import of Western culture. But it’s not like there are no authentic ones. I used to listen to a lot of Russian folk rock and still occasionally do. There have been a few recent examples of a Nordic – Russian blend which I kind of like.

    Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or “mafia wars”, than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times

    They will take whatever they can from the West, but will still build out their isolated anti-Western culture. It is strange but unfortunately understandable given the circumstances. What I prefer for my people, is to not be anti-Western, but still be able to build out the authentic, preferably unadulterated culture.

    My beloved Masha Scream doing one of my all time favorite songs, Zimushka Zima, a capella:

  1132. @Dmitry
    @LatW

    What do you think about saying you are going to war with the West. Then celebrating with imitation of American rock music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYQQsq-qEQ

    Or a fake imitation of Irish singers and American rappers for songs about Mariupol with Swedish musical equipment synthesizers behind them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqZP4v-OhEI

    In the Cold War, the conflict has at least attempt of some cultural aspects.

    Or you know, Maccabees, will rebel against the globalizing culture of Hellenistic Judaism, when they begin rebellion with the Seleucid Empire.

    While in the Russian Federation it has been accelerating importing of Western culture. It will be a kind of parallel import or import substitution for the Western product. It's like a province rebelling against the Roman empire, saying "we will build our native Roman baths, toga and aquaducts". Anyway more feel like conflict of Princes, or "mafia wars", than at least attempt of conflict of the cultures of Cold War times

    Replies: @LatW, @QCIC

    I heard that rock music was actually invented in Russia.

    The Soviets exported it to subvert the West.

    P.A.C.

  1133. @AP
    @Another Polish Perspective


    Otherwise, Ukrainians are closest genetically to Moldovans.
     
    Not according to the article:

    https://i.imgur.com/LhSxomn.png

    Moldovans are closest to Croats and Hungarians. Ukrainians are closest to Poles, though they are closer to Moldovans than Poles are. The Ukranian sample is very large, some are like Moldovans and others are like Poles but most are in between and closer to the Polish average.

    Interesting to see that Estonians are very similar to Russians, and rather different from Finns.

    Replies: @Another Polish Perspective, @Ferraro

    If you want to know where Ukrainians are relative to some other Europeans, this article is really good: https://razib.substack.com/p/getting-a-sense-of-the-russian-soul

    Basically, Ukrainians and Poles are extremely close genetically, both are very close genetically to Germans, and I’ve seen other studies showing East Germans in particular as being extremely close to Hungarians and West Slavs like Czechs and Poles. Both Ukrainians and Poles are homogeneous Slavic populations, while Russians are Slavic with a lot of Finnic admixture in the North and some Tatar admixture in the East.

    The fact that Ukrainians are so genetically close to Poles is at least in theory good news for Ukraine’s future economic development, if Ukraine manages to solve its problems and utilize the high human capital of its population appropriately.

    All three East Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) have very good PISA results for their level of income and educational expenditure, but all three seem to suffer from serious institutional quality weakness brought about by low levels of social cooperation, solving this social coordination problem in order to develop will be the challenge for Ukraine.

    • Agree: Yahya
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @Ferraro


    good news for Ukraine’s future economic development,
     
    Why would it be good news for economic development, except that genetic similarity correlates with other things like geographical position and the trading/investment bloc.

    If you believe that genetics determines economic level, it would be one of the most non-effective theories if you wanted to test it in the most simple way, like hindcasting. For example, China in 1923 has a lot more similar genetics to China in 2023, than China to India. But China's economy in 1923 was more like India, than China's economy in 2023.

    You could have an average of the historical times, which would be the correct selection, as one historical time is not more important than another. But "good news" implies the genetics would determine a historically unusual economic situation for Ukraine, because the historically normal situation was not very good news.

    After entering the EU, Poland was economically successful mainly because it is next to Germany and Germany is integrating the economy.

    In the same time, the wealthy Western European taxpayers build over hundred billion dollars of EU public investment to Poland, so it has more modern and new seeming infrastructure in some areas than Germany.

    Ukraine will have some similar situations, as it will be entering the EU. Although it is a little further from Germany, so wouldn't be integrated as much as Poland. It's also a historical epoch when the EU comparatively weaker and with less funds economically, mainly because Great Britain has Brexit.

    Though, Romania is developing more or less the same as Poland, even with the greater distance from Germany. So, perhaps, it is not so unlikely for Ukraine.

    Romania has been economica
  1134. @Ivashka the fool
    @Dmitry


    Bashibuzuk/Ano4 enjoys trolling. He knows about this science so he knows what I write in my post is true. Just he already turned on the smoke machine and disco lights. Everyone has been drinking a few beers. He’s asking his cousin for the netflix password. Nobody likes sober office workers coming home to end the party before the fun has happened and the people are drunk enough to watch “Ancient Apocalypse”.
     
    You really think that I wrote everything I did just as an elaborate trolling ?

    It’s true “Wokism” has similar ideals as Christianity
     
    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith. I write this as an outsider because I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote - "a heathen and an apostate".

    Funny though that you, being an outsider too, given your Judaic roots and materialistic and rationalist inclinations, do not discern the spiritual overtones of Wokism that are obviously Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path oriented. Both Wokism and Christianity are spiritual in their essence, but they have completely opposite natures and goals.

    No offense, but I believe you might be too limited by materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition.

    Perhaps you Should try Kabbalah or something that would get you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have an outstanding intelligence and you are a good-natured person. You are not "dumb matter", you are not a "machine", but a living Spirit. Perhaps it is time you open up and let the Light shine in...

    https://youtu.be/mAofCx8w2oU

    Б-г в помощь, Дима !

    Replies: @Ivashka the fool, @Dmitry

    I did just as an elaborate trolling

    You were writing about Godel ten posts ago so you have a lot of scientific interest. So, you know the haplogroup on the Y-chromosome are interesting historically as a kind of “fossil” of an event in that epoch (for example, an invasion), but it doesn’t have matching of the genetic similarity of the modern populations or nationalities.

    Maybe I should feel bad I introduced this in the discussion, just before AP was going to say “Ukrainians do not have the contamination of annihilatory genetics”. But you were guilty the previous example https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn/#comment-4928507

    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith

    I would say similar to Christianity for many people, causally related, as including secular liberal version of the Christian socialism movements of the 20th century. Although other things like upper class 19th century politeness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrVlrZX4UsI.). And the inquisitions.

    There is reason it feels natural for the population in countries like Western Europe which have the generations of secular versions of the previous religion.

    But it’s not a specific (excluding things like inqusition) for Christianity, but similar to most religions, which promote for universalism and equality, this same can be written by a Buddhist. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203%3A28&version=NIV

    But similarity not necessarily more for Protestant or in Catholic tradition. In the 20th century, Catholic tradition has more of the social teaching which is adaptable to the secular political ideologies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

    I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote – “a heathen and an apostate”.

    Well, there is the writer of the “Anti-Christ” ideology, although nowadays it is also quite common in America since at least in the second half of the 20th century.

    though that you, being an outsider too,

    Why outsider? Nobody is giving me the PhD for theological studies. But I know the religion more than most people nowadays (especially compared to some here), know the ruins of the places where the religion is writing about, am in church more often than an average person, actually was baptized (but that can more of a negative in the context of where and when) which is unusual.

    Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path

    I don’t know this distinction. I’m left-handed and I was wondering about which people could be “my people” if we categorized using those things. According to the positive stereotype, we are supposed to be more poetic personalities.

    you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have

    materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition

    You know from our conversation I was reading more religion than many other people. I am going to religious holy places.

    You don’t have to worry too much about my soul, because you have a different view about “Wokism”. By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums’ visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums’ visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.
     
    By all means, I where the "energy vortexes" are said to be some of the strongest in the world. But perhaps AaronB (what happened to him anyway?), might be a more appropriate guide on such an expedition? I like the place for its great hiking opportunities and beautiful "red rock" vistas.

    https://admin.itsnicethat.com/images/4Jfj-yfRA6kIxtwqvEEQBlsfa6k=/101897/format-webp%7Cwidth-1440/5b150e687fa44ce34e00051b.jpg

    https://psychicnirup.com/wp-content/uploads/psychicsedonaearwormjingle.mp4.mp4

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

  1135. @Ferraro
    @AP

    If you want to know where Ukrainians are relative to some other Europeans, this article is really good: https://razib.substack.com/p/getting-a-sense-of-the-russian-soul

    Basically, Ukrainians and Poles are extremely close genetically, both are very close genetically to Germans, and I've seen other studies showing East Germans in particular as being extremely close to Hungarians and West Slavs like Czechs and Poles. Both Ukrainians and Poles are homogeneous Slavic populations, while Russians are Slavic with a lot of Finnic admixture in the North and some Tatar admixture in the East.

    The fact that Ukrainians are so genetically close to Poles is at least in theory good news for Ukraine's future economic development, if Ukraine manages to solve its problems and utilize the high human capital of its population appropriately.

    All three East Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) have very good PISA results for their level of income and educational expenditure, but all three seem to suffer from serious institutional quality weakness brought about by low levels of social cooperation, solving this social coordination problem in order to develop will be the challenge for Ukraine.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    good news for Ukraine’s future economic development,

    Why would it be good news for economic development, except that genetic similarity correlates with other things like geographical position and the trading/investment bloc.

    If you believe that genetics determines economic level, it would be one of the most non-effective theories if you wanted to test it in the most simple way, like hindcasting. For example, China in 1923 has a lot more similar genetics to China in 2023, than China to India. But China’s economy in 1923 was more like India, than China’s economy in 2023.

    You could have an average of the historical times, which would be the correct selection, as one historical time is not more important than another. But “good news” implies the genetics would determine a historically unusual economic situation for Ukraine, because the historically normal situation was not very good news.

    After entering the EU, Poland was economically successful mainly because it is next to Germany and Germany is integrating the economy.

    In the same time, the wealthy Western European taxpayers build over hundred billion dollars of EU public investment to Poland, so it has more modern and new seeming infrastructure in some areas than Germany.

    Ukraine will have some similar situations, as it will be entering the EU. Although it is a little further from Germany, so wouldn’t be integrated as much as Poland. It’s also a historical epoch when the EU comparatively weaker and with less funds economically, mainly because Great Britain has Brexit.

    Though, Romania is developing more or less the same as Poland, even with the greater distance from Germany. So, perhaps, it is not so unlikely for Ukraine.

    Romania has been economica

  1136. @Dmitry
    @Ivashka the fool


    I did just as an elaborate trolling
     
    You were writing about Godel ten posts ago so you have a lot of scientific interest. So, you know the haplogroup on the Y-chromosome are interesting historically as a kind of "fossil" of an event in that epoch (for example, an invasion), but it doesn't have matching of the genetic similarity of the modern populations or nationalities.

    Maybe I should feel bad I introduced this in the discussion, just before AP was going to say "Ukrainians do not have the contamination of annihilatory genetics". But you were guilty the previous example https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-nationalist-turn/#comment-4928507


    Wokism is Антихристово добро. It is the opposite of the Christian faith
     
    I would say similar to Christianity for many people, causally related, as including secular liberal version of the Christian socialism movements of the 20th century. Although other things like upper class 19th century politeness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrVlrZX4UsI.). And the inquisitions.

    There is reason it feels natural for the population in countries like Western Europe which have the generations of secular versions of the previous religion.

    But it's not a specific (excluding things like inqusition) for Christianity, but similar to most religions, which promote for universalism and equality, this same can be written by a Buddhist. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203%3A28&version=NIV

    But similarity not necessarily more for Protestant or in Catholic tradition. In the 20th century, Catholic tradition has more of the social teaching which is adaptable to the secular political ideologies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology


    I am not a Christian, but as AP once wrote – “a heathen and an apostate”.
     
    Well, there is the writer of the "Anti-Christ" ideology, although nowadays it is also quite common in America since at least in the second half of the 20th century.

    though that you, being an outsider too,
     
    Why outsider? Nobody is giving me the PhD for theological studies. But I know the religion more than most people nowadays (especially compared to some here), know the ruins of the places where the religion is writing about, am in church more often than an average person, actually was baptized (but that can more of a negative in the context of where and when) which is unusual.

    Left Hand Path oriented, while Christianity since its very inception has been Right Hand Path
     
    I don't know this distinction. I'm left-handed and I was wondering about which people could be "my people" if we categorized using those things. According to the positive stereotype, we are supposed to be more poetic personalities.

    you more aligned with the spiritual side of Being. You have

     


    materialism and rationalism, which are comfortably numbing, to feel this difference between Wokism and Christian faith, that would be obvious to anyone who has a modicum of spiritual intuition
     
    You know from our conversation I was reading more religion than many other people. I am going to religious holy places.

    You don't have to worry too much about my soul, because you have a different view about "Wokism". By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums' visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums’ visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.

    By all means, I where the “energy vortexes” are said to be some of the strongest in the world. But perhaps AaronB (what happened to him anyway?), might be a more appropriate guide on such an expedition? I like the place for its great hiking opportunities and beautiful “red rock” vistas.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @Mr. Hack

    In the process of editing my comment, a part was accidentally deleted. Should read:


    By all means, I think that both you and Ivashka would find great solace in visiting Sedona, Arizona, where the “energy vortexes” are said to be some of the strongest in the world.
     
  1137. @Mr. Hack
    @Dmitry


    By now in the thread I thought you would be planning our forums’ visit to the Pyramids and asking the rationalist how he can feel magnetic radiation in the desert.
     
    By all means, I where the "energy vortexes" are said to be some of the strongest in the world. But perhaps AaronB (what happened to him anyway?), might be a more appropriate guide on such an expedition? I like the place for its great hiking opportunities and beautiful "red rock" vistas.

    https://admin.itsnicethat.com/images/4Jfj-yfRA6kIxtwqvEEQBlsfa6k=/101897/format-webp%7Cwidth-1440/5b150e687fa44ce34e00051b.jpg

    https://psychicnirup.com/wp-content/uploads/psychicsedonaearwormjingle.mp4.mp4

    Replies: @Mr. Hack

    In the process of editing my comment, a part was accidentally deleted. Should read:

    By all means, I think that both you and Ivashka would find great solace in visiting Sedona, Arizona, where the “energy vortexes” are said to be some of the strongest in the world.

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