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耶稣恶作剧:圣保罗的阴谋集团如何欺骗世界两千年
戴维·斯科比娜(David Skrbina)
创意消防出版社,2019年

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David Skrbina是一名专业哲学家,2003年至2018年期间担任密歇根大学的高级讲师。 除了正在审阅的书之外,他还撰写和编辑了许多书,其中包括 技术的形而上学 (Routledge,2014年), 西方泛灵论 (麻省理工学院出版社,2017年)和选集 对抗技术 (Creative Fire Press,2020年)。

耶稣骗局 试图说服读者,基督教没有合理的基础,并且其主要创始人圣保罗的动机是对罗马帝国的对抗。 在此框架内,保罗是一名犹太民族主义者,其目标是招募非犹太人反对罗马帝国:“由于圣经中耶稣的故事是错误的,显然是保罗和他的犹太同胞为轻信易怒的外邦人而建造的站在他们的身边,远离罗马”(43)。 实际上,斯克宾娜声称保罗可能是狂热分子,即致力于反抗罗马人的犹太教派成员。当时最精英的犹太人”(37)。

斯卡宾娜(Skrbina)辩称,无论是在规范的《新约》中,还是在非基督教来源中,都没有令人信服的证据证明耶稣故事的真实性。 最早来自非基督教徒的文献是犹太作家约瑟夫斯(Josephus)的一段故事,该故事讲述了93年的基本故事,即耶稣“被指责我们中间的主要男人”即当时的精英犹太人而被钉死在十字架上。 Skrbina在这里提出了一个普遍的问题:约瑟夫斯传世的最早来源是公元四世纪的基督教辩护者尤塞比乌斯,而福音书本身的最古老年代却要比他们所写的要晚得多(70-95),因此打开编辑和插补的可能性。 例如,马修福音完整版的最旧副本,如下所述,是所有犹太人中最具煽动性的反犹太段落,可追溯到四世纪中叶,这是康斯坦丁在帝国主义将基督教合法化以及犹太人的态度在尤西比乌斯(Eusebius)等知识分子和圣约翰·金口(St. John Chrysostom)等教会父亲中盛行。[1]凯文·麦克唐纳(Kevin MacDonald), 分离及其不满:走向反犹太主义的进化理论 (AuthorHouse,2003年;最初发布:Praeger,1998年),第二章。 3。 编辑和内插的程度仍然未知,并存在明显的解释问题。

第一个对基督教发表评论的罗马人是塔西us和普林尼(〜115),他们都不喜欢基督教。 正如Skrbina所指出的那样:“罗马人普遍容忍其他宗教,因此我们必须得出结论,该群体存在一些独特的问题”(60)。

Skrbina非常清楚,对整个早期基督教运动的分析必须了解犹太人的问题,并引用尼采的话:“如果我们不想在这里失去气味,首先要记住的是我们属于犹太人。” (34)。 他对犹太人民族中心主义的评估非常准确:犹太人“把自己看作特殊,不同,'选择'的人,因此他们将这些观念放在了上帝的口中。 当然,没有人会否认一个民族以自己为荣。 但是这些极端的说法远远超出了正常范围。 它们表明一种自我吸收,一种自我荣耀,一种自恋,一种自负。 要被宇宙的创造者选择,并被授予对所有其他国家无情的统治权,就代表了一种历史上前所未有的大妄想”(63)。

毫不奇怪,这样的人经常被别人憎恨,斯克比纳叙述了古代世界中许多反犹太态度和行动的例子:“犹太人定居在其他人民中的地方,他们似乎已经成为敌人了”(65) ,尤其要注意犹太人与统治精英结盟反对当地居民的经常性主题(这个主题一直持续到古代世界之后)。 Skrbina在最近一次奖学金中引用了一段经文,特别是在公元前134年给塞琉古帝国的希腊统治者安提阿古斯七世灭绝犹太人的建议时,我感到特别震惊:比赛,并把每个人都视为自己的敌人; 他们的祖先被诸神亵渎和诅咒,被赶出埃及。 辅导员[引用]犹太人对全人类的仇恨,受到其法律的制裁,这禁止他们与外邦人共享餐桌,或表示任何仁慈的迹象。”[2]在埃米利奥·加巴(Emilio Gabba)中引用“反犹太教或希腊对犹太人的态度的增长”。 在WD Davies和Louis Finkelstein(编辑)中, 剑桥犹太教史。 卷 2: 希腊时代 (剑桥大学出版社,1989),614–656,645)。

Skrbina得出结论,犹太人中存在着一种“深埋的厌世现象”,这种现象一直持续到当代时代,并引用了拉比·约瑟夫(Rabbi Yosef)的一段著名话,他在2010年说:“戈伊姆的诞生只是为我们服务。 没有这些,他们就不会在世界上占有一席之地,只能为以色列人民服务。 他们会工作,他们会耕作,他们会收获。 我们将像名叫芬迪(社会地位很高的男人)一样坐着吃饭”(“耶路撒冷邮报”,18年2010月79日)。 Skrbina:“犹太文化中有些东西引起了厌恶和仇恨”(XNUMX)。

根据对旧约的广泛引用,斯克比娜得出结论,福音书通常是在保罗写作之后很久才写的,也很可能是犹太人写的。 Skrbina指出,最新版本的福音书“约翰”是关于“耶稣是弥赛亚”这一问题的“犹太人内部争吵”(41),这显然是东正教犹太人拒绝的观点。 换句话说,约翰将自己标识为犹太人,但与正统犹太人建立斗争的犹太人。 重要的是,约翰包含了反犹太的段落,这些段落回荡了几个世纪:犹太人“谋杀了耶稣”,而福音则代表耶稣说:“你们(犹太人)是您父亲的恶魔……他从一开始就是杀人犯,与真理无关,因为他里面没有真理。 撒谎时,他会根据自己的天性说话,因为他是撒谎者,是撒谎之父”(约翰福音8:44)(41)。 许多当代学者接受这样的观点,即福音书中的反犹太言论是关于犹太人或基督徒是否是上帝的选民的壁上争论。

当然,还有许多其他反犹太言论:

  • 约翰福音5:18:出于这个原因,犹太人越来越想杀死[耶稣],因为他不仅打破了安息日,而且还称上帝为自己的父亲,从而使自己与上帝平等。
  • 约翰福音7:1:这些事之后,耶稣在加利利行走;因为犹太人试图杀死他,所以他不会在犹太区行走。
  • 约翰福音7:12-13:在人群中有很多关于他的抱怨。 有些人说“他是个好人”,而另一些人说:“不,他在欺骗人群。” 然而,没有人会因为担心犹太人而公开谈论他。
  • 约翰福音8:37:我知道你是亚伯拉罕的后裔。 但是您正在寻找一个杀死我的机会,因为在您那里我的言语没有余地。

最有影响力的:

  • 马太福音27:25–26:彼拉多看到自己无能为力时, 倒是闹得沸沸扬扬,他喝了水,然后洗了 他的 在众人面前举手,说,我对这个正义者的血是清白的:见 。 众民回答说,他的血 be 在我们和我们的孩子身上。

不仅在福音中有这种观点。 圣保罗:

  • 1Thess 2:14-15 已可以选用犹太人:谁杀了主耶稣和他们自己的先知,并逼迫我们; 他们不喜悦上帝,与所有人相反。

Skrbina在讨论《马可福音》时指出,保罗等人。 有两个敌人,罗马人和不信犹太人的犹太人,例如法利赛人,他们“想杀死耶稣”(95)。 因此,马克将罪魁祸首归咎于两者。斯克宾娜总结说:“马克对同胞的犹太人的愤怒……使他变得更好。 几个世纪以来,基督徒会谴责犹太人杀害基督,却没有意识到整个故事首先是犹太人的建构”(95)。

后来在马修(Matthew)和路加(Luke)中,“反犹太言论激增了一些; 犹太人被称为“毒蛇之巢”(马太福音3:7、12:34、23:33)和“钱财爱好者”(路16:14)。 而且革命信息反复出现,包括武装对抗(“我不是要带来和平,而是一把剑” [马太福音10:34]),它描绘了即将到来的对抗将分裂家庭。

Skrbina对基督教的轨迹的重建是暂时的(“我在这里不会要求确定性” [81])。 例如,他想象一个犹太爱国者保罗的自言自语,“我们的“耶稣”能带给群众什么信息,“回答”我们需要他们成为亲犹太人,而不是让他们成为犹太人-不,那将永远行不通。 我们需要一种新的东西,介于犹太教和异教之间的“第三条道路”。 也许是一个开始,我们可以让他们敬拜我们的上帝耶和华,而不是那个荒唐的罗马万神殿”(84;强调文字)。 整个观点是要鼓励叛乱:“在[保罗的]信中,我们发现了许多关于奴役,革命,起义,战争,被剥夺权力的群众的重要性等等。 在早期的加拉太书中,我们读到耶稣需要“拯救我们脱离现在的邪恶时代”(加拉太书1:4)”(90)。 Skrbina认为哥林多前书1:1中的以下段落是“决定性的”(4):

弟兄们,请考虑一下您的呼召,按照世俗的标准,你们中没有多少人是聪明的,有力量的人也不多,有高贵的出生的人也不多。 但是上帝选择愚昧的东西来羞辱智者,上帝选择了世界上的弱者来羞辱强者。 上帝选择了世上卑鄙的事物, 即使不是的东西,使没有的东西变成实物。 (Skrbina的重点)

路加福音和马修福音书中提到的民兵人数都增加到85岁。马修福音(10:34):“不要以为我是来给人间带来和平的。 我不是来带来和平,而是一把剑。”

如果所有人都同意Skrbina的观点,那么他建议您“去找当地的教会领袖,并以证据(或缺乏证据)面对他们。 他们的回答将确认您需要了解的所有信息。 然后,向他们表明 你被骗了”(112)。 并且:“基督徒需要掩盖自己被骗的事实,然后看看是否有任何东西可以挽救他们的宗教信仰。 保持社会俱乐部,开展慈善工作,帮助穷人,只要抛弃虚假的形而上学就可以了”(116)。

讨论

由于我不是信徒,而且我非常了解犹太人为操纵非犹太人的信仰和态度所做的努力,因此, 批判文化我很愿意接受Skrbina的解释。 但是,有些事情困扰着我。

骗子? Skrbina认为,整个项目都是基于谎言,这是因为犹太人鄙视非犹太人而使谎言成为可能。 在标题为“保罗,说谎者至高无上的保罗”的章节中,我们发现“犹太人总是鄙视外邦人。 ……如果这样做符合犹太人的利益,他们可能会受到操纵,骚扰,殴打,殴打甚至杀害”(99)。 福音作家也可能是撒谎者:“即使在古代,人们也不是白痴。 在没有任何明显证据或证实的情况下,马克怎么会接受如此奇妙的故事? 并完全接受它们,以至于他会把它们写下为事实真相,真实事件和真实事件? 然后同一件事又如何发生在三个不同的人身上,又发生了三遍呢?” (106)。 保罗实际上不太可能真正相信自己在写什么,因为他是如此接近所写的事件,并且因为他是一个“聪明的人”。 他怎么可能完全陷入一个虚假的犹太救世主,以致于毕生致力于传播这个故事?” (106)。

这被认为是一个聪明的问题,并且确实存在一个小而一致的问题 负相关关系 在智力和宗教信仰之间。[3]Miron Zuckerman等人,“负面智力与宗教信仰的关系:新的和确凿的证据”, 人格与社会心理学通报 46号6(2020):856–868。 但是,该协会的弱点(解释了大约XNUMX%的差异)表明,有很多聪明的人非常虔诚。 在古代世界中,这甚至更有可能发生。在这种情况下,人们非常重视宗教,许多人认为奇迹般的事件是理所当然的,而且对于宗教,哲学怀疑论的历史还没有很长的历史。在当代西方。 或考虑在西方产生高智商的中世纪时期,例如圣托马斯·阿奎那(St. Thomas Aquinas)或奥卡姆(Occam)的威廉。 或者是超宗教但非常聪明的清教徒,他们定居在新英格兰,并迅速创立了哈佛大学和其他精英常春藤盟校。 我们生活在一个科学已成为受人尊敬的时代的时代,因此,试图操纵可以作为科学传承的东西来服务于其他利益,并对当代文化产生巨大影响。 但是,过去的文化背景大不相同,我怀疑在许多历史时期,智力和宗教信仰之间的相关性大约为零。

与说谎有关的另一个问题是yr难。 保罗和福音作家是骗子的提议必须处理“谁会为撒谎而死? ……作为犹太人,他们已经受到罗马人的迫害。 作为极端狂热的犹太人,他们愿意为帮助“以色列”做任何事情并遭受任何惩罚,以帮助他们(110)。 的确可以肯定,当罗马人镇压犹太人起义时,犹太人死亡并被成群奴役,这大概是在假定的福音作家的脑海中进行的(第一次罗马-犹太战争发生在70年),因此the教的极端利他主义为了这个团体的利益似乎是可能的,尤其是在犹太人中间 犹太教的传统 仍然是犹太人身份的重要方面。 但是,基督教和犹太传统中关于难的故事,如果不完全是假的,可能至少会被夸大(例如, 此处),因为它们在建立强烈的群体内认同感方面很有用。

同样,还有谁是谁写的《新约》和什么时候写的问题,包括可能的修订和内插。 我根本不是新约学者,但我注意到最近有一位学者, 罗伯特·普赖斯,其日期可追溯到第二世纪Marcion的第一个圣保罗书信集,其中一些书信的作者受到了激烈的争论,后来的收藏家极有可能插值:

在这里,作者权的问题将以一种或另一种方式影响不大。 在此过程中,进行了插值,然后逐渐渗透到每个字母的文字传统中,直到对田园版本的最终规范化(并同时烧毁其竞争对手)制止了所有这一切。 ……但波琳书信的第一位收藏家是马克西恩。 我们所知没有其他人会是一个不错的候选人,当然不是虚构的卢克,蒂莫西和阿尼西母。 正如伯基特(Burkitt)和鲍威尔(Bauer)所展示的那样,马克西恩(Marcion)完美地满足了这一要求。 在书信本身中,他可能是《老底嘉》(Laodiceans)的原始作者( 模板 (即以弗所书的原始版本),也可能是加拉太书。 就像《古兰经》中的穆罕默德一样,他会把自己的挣扎读回到圣经前辈的事业上。

但是还有其他学者继续坚持这样的观点,即新约圣经是可靠的书信,或者至少是足够可靠的书信(例如,参见Craig L. Blomberg, 新约的历史可靠性:应对福音派基督教信仰的挑战)。 我当然无法评估什么仍然是一个非常有争议的领域,至少有200多年的细微交易涵盖了这一领域,通常是那些积极进取的学者。 在奖学金的后期阶段,似乎不可能达成共识,尤其是因为大量的奖学金很可能是出于捍卫根深蒂固的宗教信仰或对宗教信仰提出质疑的动机。 例如,布隆伯格(Blomberg)将自己描述为“基督教的信奉福音的信徒”(xxv),这并不意味着他是错误的,而是表明他会被捍卫自己的信仰。

考虑到所有这些复杂性,我在尝试评估这些问题时采取了谦卑的态度,这使我对新约的历史性,无论是谁写的都是撒谎者以及他们的真正议程都是不可知的。 我被说服了,人们对一世纪的实际写法尚无共识,并且我接受这样一种可能性,即作为基督教的经典著作而得以幸存的著作很可能包括后来的编纂和内插法,反映出与那些书本截然不同的观念和利益。假定的一世纪作家 .

新约中的反犹太言论。 我在上面指出,新约中有许多反犹太的经文,包括圣保罗本人的经文。 Skrbina声称:“在所有福音书中散布的反犹太言论,尤其是约翰,比外部的,外邦人的攻击更多地反映了内部犹太人在意识形态方面的斗争”(107-108)。 这是一种普遍的学术观点,但是如果您试图招募外邦人参加为犹太利益服务的运动,您真的想用反犹太言论来乱写您的著作吗? 实际上,这些说法,尤其是声称犹太人犯了杀人罪的说法,在随后的几个世纪中一直被基督徒用来反对犹太人,最著名的是“他的血统”。 be 在我们和我们的孩子身上。” 尽管反犹太主义的主要爆发总是远远超出基督教的宗教信仰,但它们通常发生在各种资源竞争时期(麦克唐纳,1998)-我毫不怀疑,基督教徒对犹太人的信仰激化并加剧了反犹太人的态度,尤其是在过去,欧洲人口中的绝大多数人都深信宗教,例如在中世纪,宗教信仰激发了十字军东征,长期以来,据说朝难的地方进行了艰苦的朝圣。 在那个时期,例如巴黎圣母院(Notre Dame de Paris)是传统法国的象征, 带有反犹太意象。

Ecclesia(右)和Synagoga,说明了犹太人拒绝基督教的盲目性
Ecclesia(右)和Synagoga,说明了犹太人拒绝基督教的盲目性

确实,犹太人对基督教神学具有反犹太性质的认识导致犹太人行动主义从本质上重写或重新诠释了新约圣经。 安东尼·J·帕特里克(Antonius J.Patrick)在他的著作中总结了这部分犹太行动主义 检讨 VicomteLéonde Poncins' 犹太教与梵蒂冈:一次精神颠覆的尝试:

关于非基督教宗教的声明和宣言 诺斯特乙酸 理事会第四届会议(1965年)通过的决议案几乎完成了现代主义者所希望的一切。 实际上,这些声明否认了近1994年的天主教徒对犹太人的教teaching。 从那时起,教堂在礼拜仪式,圣人的命名以及政治领域方面一直向犹太人施加压力,这是它最臭名昭著的决定,即在XNUMX年承认以色列。

密切关注梵蒂冈二世诉讼的庞鑫写道:

。 。 。 理事会提议的改革背后是许多犹太组织和人士的提议,以期改变教会的态度和对犹太教的悠久历史的教::朱莉·艾萨克(Jules Isaac),标签·卡茨(Label Katz),纳赫·巴里斯(B'nai B'rith)总统高盛,世界犹太人大会主席等。 。 。 这些改革非常重要,因为它们表明教会已经被误认了两千年了,她必须做出修正,并完全重新考虑她对犹太人的态度。

在安理会成立之前的几年中,领导人物是有毒的反天主教作家朱尔斯·艾萨克(Jules Isaac),他在法律顾问中发挥了积极作用。 庞辛斯(Poncins)表示:“以撒(Isaac)使安理会发挥了优势,在进步的主教中得到了相当大的支持。 实际上,他成为反对教会传统教义的运动的主要理论家和推动者。”

以撒(Isaac)早就开始了他的敌对运动,以他关于该主题的两本最重要的书籍推翻对犹太人的天主教教义: 耶稣与以色列 (1946)和 Genésede l'Antisémitisme (1948)。 庞鑫准确地总结了这些工作的主要目的:

在这些书中,朱尔斯·艾萨克(Jules Isaac)强烈谴责基督教的教义,他说基督教教义是现代反犹太主义的源头和传道,尽管说他要求XNUMX年教义的“净化”和“修正”会更正确。老的。

此外,无论圣保罗和福音派作家的信仰和动机如何,到第四世纪,天主教成为罗马帝国的正式宗教之后,教堂基本上已成为反犹太运动:

这里的建议是,在这个群体冲突加剧的时期,反犹太领导人,例如[圣约翰]金口[谁保留 小教堂 在罗马的圣彼得大教堂以他的名字命名]试图传达对犹太人非常消极的看法。 犹太人不应被概念化为无害的异国情调,娱乐性宗教实践者,或作为魔术师,算命先生或治疗师(如前所述),而应作为邪恶的化身。 在此期间出现的立法的全部目的是建立犹太人和外邦人之间的隔离墙,巩固外邦人群体,并使所有外邦人意识到谁是“敌人”。 这些墙以前只是由犹太人建立和维护的,而在这个新的群体间冲突时期,外邦人在他们自己和犹太人之间筑起了墙……

这里提出的解释是,犹太人和外邦人之间的群体冲突进入了4世纪的新阶段。 引起人们极大兴趣的是,在这一时期,对犹太人的贪婪,财富,对奢侈的热爱和餐桌上的快乐的指责变得司空见惯(Simon 1986,213)。 这种指控在更早的时期就没有发生过,当时反犹太的著作集中在犹太分离主义上。 这些新指控表明,犹太人越来越有钱地成为富人,反过来又表明,反犹太主义在古代世界进入了一个新阶段,一个围绕资源竞争和对犹太经济成功,对外邦人统治的担忧[特别是]奴役的外邦人],以及相对的生殖成功。 …

犹太人在4世纪越来越多地进入帝国和市政服务,直到5世纪被排除在这些职业之外-这是自该时期以来对犹太人的广泛经济,社会和法律禁止的一个方面(特别是对犹太人拥有的禁止)基督教奴隶本身就是犹太人超富的象征。 这些因素加上对犹太人的传统的温和派仇恨(由于其分离主义的作法以及对犹太人的不道德行为以及对犹太人财富的理解),为大规模的反犹太运动奠定了基础。 这里的提议是,这种反犹太运动在基督教会中得到了结晶。 (分离及其不满,频道 3,96,98,99)

新约中的反犹太言论很有可能是后来由受资源竞争和犹太人奴役基督徒的反犹太作家所做的插补。 如果是这样,撒谎者不是保罗和福音作家,而是基督徒在第三和第四世纪关心犹太人。 加格(JG Gager)建议,早期教会的现存文献是有意选择的,以强调反犹太主题并排除其他声音,就像对五经修士的神职人员修改保留了较早的著作而言,只是与犹太人作为散居海外的意识形态兼容(加格(JG Gager) , 反犹太主义的起源: 异教徒和基督教古代对犹太教的态度 (Oxford,1983),7; N. deLange,“反犹太主义的起源:古代证据和现代解释”,在 反犹太主义 in of 危机,SL Gilman和ST Katz(纽约大学出版社,1991年,第30-31页)。 可以想像的是,这些早期作品不是像Skrbina所反映的那样反映了第一世纪真正的犹太人内部争吵,而是为了强调原始作品中的反犹太主题,或者一次完全是捏造的,而故意进行了修饰。当这些作家因一世纪以来并不突出的原因而成为强烈的反犹太人时。 在任何情况下,这种可能性都与以下观点高度吻合:在天主教的形成时期,质的转变是有意识地向根本上反犹太的历史版本的意识建构。

谎言的后果。 Skrbina最后声称保罗的谎言是成功的:“花了数百年,但当足够多的人为骗局而堕落时,它帮助推翻了罗马帝国”(122)。 他将谎言描述为“致命威胁”:“最终吸引2亿人口,成为真理和理性的敌人,并通过宗教审判,女巫焚烧,十字军东征和其他宗教暴行造成数百万人死亡”( 101)。

我从未见过学术上的争论,即天主教的制度化对帝国的衰落做出了重要贡献。 东方帝国虽然向穆斯林失去了实质性的领土,但经过数个世纪的战斗之后,才在1453年被推翻。 但是,考虑到基督教宗教意识形态与建立罗马的完全军事化的印欧文化截然相反,因此,这绝对是一个合理的想法。 古代希腊罗马文化从根本上讲是贵族制,其基础是自然不平等和自然等级观念。 因此,柏拉图的“正义社会” 共和国 之所以要由哲学家统治,是因为它们是真正的理性,并且他认为理性能力存在自然差异-现代人会根据智商和人格的行为遗传学来表述它。 亚里斯多德(Aristotle)相信有些人是“天生的”奴隶(拉里·西登托(Larry Siedentop), 发明个人:西方自由主义的起源 (剑桥,马萨诸塞州:哈佛大学出版社,2014年),第52页),也就是说,主人和奴隶之间的等级制度是很自然的。 反映里卡多·杜切斯内(Ricardo Duchesne)强调的印欧文化中的共同主题(西方文明的独特性),古人珍视名副其实的荣誉和荣耀(来自他人的积极自尊),这些荣誉和荣耀源于真正的美德以及军事和政治成就,但不是劳动,因为劳动者通常是奴隶和应征服的赃物。

因此,赞美谦卑,谦卑和劳力的基督教道德观念已经发生了很大的变化。 在基督教意识形态中,个人取代了古老的印欧家庭,成为道德合法性的所在地。 基督教意识形态是为所有人类准备的,至少在基督教徒社区内产生一种道德平均主义的感觉,而不是将社会视为基于自然等级制。 在上帝的眼中,个体的灵魂被视为具有道德能力和同等价值,这是一种神学,在当代世界中产生了非常负面的影响。

然而,普遍主义和柔和谦逊的基督教美德并不是唯一的故事,而且正如斯克宾娜(Skrbina)所指出的那样,剑的确也出现在《新约》中。 在中世纪,基督教被德国化(詹姆斯·罗素(James Russell, 中世纪早期基督教的德国化,牛津,1996年),使其与贵族战士种族更加兼容。 在中世纪及以后的时期,基督教促进了西方的个人主义,本质上迎来了科学,技术进步和领土扩张的现代时代(约瑟夫·亨里希(Joseph Henrich), 世界上最古怪的人,2020; 麦克唐纳, 个人主义与西方自由传统,2019)。

直接的结果是,对自己的信仰有坚定信念的基督徒最终征服了世界,并为创造现代世界的所有科学和技术进步负有责任。 确实,在他的 世界上最古怪的人约瑟夫·亨里希(Joseph Henrich)辩称,中世纪的教会通过坚持一夫一妻制婚姻和“拆除”亲属关系来发明西方个人主义,这是亨里希(Henrich)提出的,旨在理解他的副标题, 西方如何在心理上变得特别和繁荣 (哈佛大学,2020年)。 我对他的方法有很多异议(请参阅 此处),但他肯定是正确的,教会在反对扩大亲属关系的力量,防止精英之间的cu妇和一夫多妻制方面具有影响力,从而促进了相对平等的婚姻制度。 从本质上讲,亨里希(Henrich)忽略了追溯到史前西欧的西方个人主义的种族基础,并且肯定会在希腊和罗马的古典西方文明中得到体现。 亨里希还忽略了遗传对智商和性格的影响。 但是我同意一个弱得多的说法,即教会促进了西方的个人主义,并因此帮助兴起了现代世界(第5章,第XNUMX章)。 个人主义与西方自由传统, 2019 ).

因此,这不完全是一个“通过宗教调查,女巫焚烧,十字军东征和其他宗教暴行造成数百万人死亡的故事”。 但是可悲的现实是,当代基督教,或者至少是绝大多数基督教,完全反对历史上将其作为宗教信仰的人们的利益。 例如, 安德鲁·弗雷泽(Andrew Fraser)教授 以与基督教的种族形式一致的方式解释了基本的基督教文本(例如,“全球耶稣与民族耶稣”和 基督之剑 (2020年;这本书似乎已被亚马逊禁止),吉尔斯·科里(Giles Corey)试图从当代以左派统治的基督教神学的废墟中拯救一个在种族上可行的基督教。 正如我在序言中指出的:

宗教思想从本质上讲是无限的,具有无限的延展性(例如,可以很容易地将《新约》中的修订和内插法改编为一种全新的神学)。 这是一把危险的剑,可以用来促进信徒的合法利益,也可以成为一种致命武器,使信徒采取明显不利的态度。 只需考虑基于宗教的自杀邪教,例如 人民庙 (琼斯敦), 太阳神庙天堂之门。 从传统天主教到主流新教的主流基督教在创造健康家庭生活方面具有根本的适应性。 它与一种以非凡的科学技术创造力,[地域扩张]和生活水平受到世界其他地区羡慕的文化相兼容。 …

科里非常清楚当代基督教已遭到严重破坏。 主线的新教徒和天主教教堂已成为左派的各种社会正义运动的附属物,极大地促进了其他种族和文化对西方的殖民化,尽管宗教的热情和出勤率的下降以及基督教本身变得越来越与宗教无关。全国对话。 [纪尧姆·杜罗彻(Guillaume Durocher) 笔记 只有6%到12%的法国人口在信奉天主教,这说明法国目前的不适不能归咎于天主教。]另一方面,仍然大力拥护基督教的[美国]福音派人士被该神学蒙蔽了双双。基督教犹太复国主义,他们的主要重点是促进以色列。 [总的来说,他们拒绝了明确的白人身份或白人利益感。]

直到二十世纪,基督教一直为西方服务。 人们只需要想到基督徒为防止穆斯林在整个西方建立哈里发而奋战的悠久历史,即查尔斯·马特尔(Charles Martel)在图尔之战,西班牙征服战争,土耳其人在维也纳大门口的惨败。 西方扩张的时代是由基督教探险家和殖民者完成的。 直到最近,科学,技术和艺术的蓬勃发展完全是在基督教的背景下发生的。

科里倡导振兴中世纪的日耳曼基督教,其依据是塞缪尔·弗朗西斯(Samuel Francis)的话:“社会等级制度,对部落和地方的忠诚(血液和土壤),世界接受而不是世界排斥,以及重视英雄主义和军事的伦理牺牲。” 中世纪的基督教保留了日耳曼部落的贵族文化,基本上是印欧文化。 这是一种适应性基督教,一种与西方扩张相适应的基督教,到XNUMX世纪末,西方已在地球上占主导地位。 基督教本身当然不是问题。

适应性基督教的衰落与整个西方犹太人作为反基督教精英的启蒙运动后崛起相吻合,科里(Corey)在传统基督教对犹太教的观点上有很多非常有趣的材料。 传统的基督教神学认为教会已经取代了旧约,犹太人通过拒绝教会,犹太人不仅拒绝了上帝,还为谋杀基督负责。 …

实际上,在整个教育系统和精英媒体中传播的左派知识分子运动已经利用了西方自由主义传统。 后来成为主导美国知识分子言论的知识分子和媒体都非常意识到有必要通过本质上建立一个吸引这些特征但又服务于他们的利益的道德共同体,来呼吁西方倾向个人主义,平均主义和道德普遍主义。 的主题 批判文化 是他们的反对者的道德诉求在这里回顾的激进主义知识分子的著作中得到了突出体现,其中包括政治激进分子以及那些反对智商中个体和群体差异的生物学观点的人。 在精神分析运动中,道德优越感也很普遍,法兰克福学派提出了这样一种观点,即社会科学应由道德标准来判断。

在西方,文化左派的胜利达到了实质性的共识,从而建立了一个道德共同体,在这个共同体中,不信奉信仰的人们不仅被视为智力上不足,而且被视为道德上的邪恶。 道德社区而不是亲属是西方社会的社会粘合剂。 西方人是个人主义者,对直系亲属以外的亲戚前景不太关心,他们愿意惩罚反对道德社区的其他白人,甚至为此付出了自己的代价(无私的惩罚)。 他们的主要关注点是在他们的道德共同体中享有良好的声誉,现在该道德共同体已经由媒体和教育系统所定义。这个道德共同体是由敌对的精英们出于恐惧和厌恶传统的美国白人多数而创建的(参见 批判文化,Ch。 7)。

最后,斯克宾娜问道:“接受神话作为真理真的有好处吗? 难道真的可以过一个幸福,成功和有意义的生活,奉献一个虚假的故事或谎言吗?” (16)。 我认为答案是可以的。 作为进化论者,我的工作假设是,关于思想领域,进化论的目标不是真理,而是成功维持家庭成员和增加部落前景的成功之道。 当然,其他群体的宗教信仰,例如穆斯林,犹太人或摩门教徒,很可能是错误的,并且基于发明。 但是相信这些谎言的人们通常在进化论方面做得很好,并且还在继续这样做。 阿什肯纳兹犹太人优生学在宗教背景下发展了数百年,产生了一个能够在整个西方产生巨大影响力的高度聪明的精英。 伊斯兰教扩张了数百年,控制着广阔的领土,领导者得到了巨大的后宫和许多后裔的赏识。 伊斯兰教现在在欧洲迅速扩张,其生育力比欧洲本土人更高。 众所周知,在西方,认真从事宗教活动,原教旨主义的基督徒的孩子平均比非基督徒的欧洲人多,这无疑是适应性强的。 但是他们也更有可能宣誓效忠以色列,并且总的来说,他们完全不愿意了解多元文化主义的负面影响或犹太文化的影响(他们鄙视其影响)甚至犹太人对基督教的传统敌视。

毫无疑问,天主教和主教新教已被彻底腐化并积极地被颠覆,以致成千上万的美国白人被多元文化主义和替代级别的移民作为道德上的当务之急而席卷而来。 犹太激进主义当然是其中的一部分,但是传统的基督教普遍主义和道德平均主义也是其中的一部分。 也许有人会说,尽管基督教具有很高的适应能力,但它仍然携带着自己毁灭的种子-一旦西方文化被我们的新的敌对精英所颠覆,它的装甲上的缝隙就使得颠覆相对容易。

因此,在我看来,这是一个复杂的故事,距离完成还很遥远。

说明

[1] 凯文·麦克唐纳(Kevin MacDonald), 分离及其不满:走向反犹太主义的进化理论 (AuthorHouse,2003年;最初发布:Praeger,1998年),第二章。 3。

[2] 在埃米利奥·加巴(Emilio Gabba)中引用“反犹太教或希腊对犹太人的态度的增长”。 在WD Davies和Louis Finkelstein(编辑)中, 剑桥犹太教史。 卷 2: 希腊时代 (剑桥大学出版社,1989),614–656,645)。

[3] Miron Zuckerman等人,“负面智力与宗教信仰的关系:新的和确凿的证据”, 人格与社会心理学通报 46号6(2020):856–868。

(从重新发布 西方观察家 经作者或代表的许可)
 
• 类别: 发展史, 思想 •标签: 天主教, 基督教, 犹太人 
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  1. 作为东方东正教徒,有着强烈的善辩同情心,这件事整个都是愚蠢的,而且是以西方对基督教的理解为基础的,我们认为这显然是分歧的。

    1)宗教的核心信息不是神话,处女诞生等,也不是针对基督教与其他理性立场的理性,理性论证。 那不是当时引起人们注意的原因。 它是:
    a)徽标(基督是上帝的道;徽标/单词是希腊哲学概念,大致类似于道或法学)的思想,即,超越理性思考,内省级的每个人都可以方便地使用徽标(并且我们可以所有人都踏上了体现这一旅程的旅程)。
    b)该徽标可以体现在最谦卑和羞辱中,就像遭受了不仅最痛苦,而且最受羞辱的死亡,被钉十字架的人一样。 而这个实施例,无论如何蒙受屈辱,是值得奉献的,而不是皇帝的暂时力量。
    c)最重要的是,信息的核心是:i)福气; ii)法利赛人的祸患; iii)伟大的诫命(不要与伟大的使命相混淆)。 在亲犹太阴谋中,您不仅要编造革命性的东西。 告诉我法利赛人的祸患如何为犹太人赢得人心。

    2)保罗认为,如果您读的是希腊文而不是一些恶名昭著的译本,保罗接着是尼萨的格里高里(Gregory of Nyssa)等早期教会的父亲,那么旧约在寓言而不是字面意义上是正确的。 詹姆斯的书是关于犹太人如何转变为基督教的一切。 詹姆士毫无疑问地为犹太基督徒和异教徒订立了新约。

    3)天主教堂并没有出现在5世纪,也不是这些问题的最原始来源。 如果不是希腊东正教(反对者是天主教徒组成的政权),那就是叙利亚东正教(反对是希腊人,组成查理顿451左右的政权,但至少读了原版中的北领地)。 与这里所说的不同,与诸如叙利亚的以法莲,卡帕多西亚的父亲,Maxim悔的马克西姆等东方父亲相比,阿奎那与奥古斯丁和杰罗姆是白痴。

    关于教会促进西方个人主义和破坏长期亲属关系的论点无视了整个东方基督教。 我们通常被认为与个人主义者背道而驰,尤其是部落。 从理论上讲,我们所有的教堂,尤其是模仿者,都是唯物论者。 在此让我强调,天主教和西方基督教都是基于希腊人裸露的误译,例如继承了原罪的观念以及经文而不是基督是神的道理。

    最后,我们都接受神话作为真理,这是人类的处境。 通过Jung,Neitzsche和Derrida的选择,很难争辩说人类可以获取客观真理,而不是基于我们与生俱来的人类“千面英雄”的解释。 最好选择拥有数千年发展经验的公司,并且要比人们选择的第一次世界大战后或美国后革命(无论如何)都更注意人类的更广阔的生活。

    无论如何,本文的后半部分转向关于使徒时期对当代西方基督教的影响的一些误导性论点,这种论据是没有根据的,因此,如果有一个神话以外的事实,即两者之间存在有意义的连续性,就无话可说了。二。

  2. El Dato 说:

    From Philip K. Dick’s story “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep”:

    [更多]

    “Listen to this,” Roy Baty said. Irmgard gazed fixedly at the TV screen and Pris had ceased her mutilation of the spider.

    “We located, by means of thousands upon thousands of photographs, a very old man now, named Al Jarry, who played a number of bit parts in pre-war films. From our lab we sent a team to Jarry’s home in East Harmony, Indiana. I’ll let one of the members of that team describe what he found.” Silence, then a new voice, equally pedestrian. “The house on Lark Avenue in East Harmony is tottering and shabby and at the edge of town, where no one, except Al Jarry, still lives. Invited amiably in, and seated in the stale-smelling, moldering, kipple-filled living room, I scanned by telepathic means the blurred, debris-cluttered, and hazy mind of Al Jarry seated across from me.”

    “Listen,” Roy Baty said, on the edge of his seat, poised as if to pounce.

    “I found,” the technician continued, “that the old man did in actuality make a series of short fifteen minute video films, for an employer whom he never met. And, as we had theorized, the ‘rocks’ did consist of rubber-like plastic. The ‘blood’ shed was catsup, and ” the technician chuckled the only suffering Mr. Jarry underwent was having to go an entire day without a shot of whisky.”

    “Al Jarry,” Buster Friendly said, his face returning to the screen. “Well, well. An old man who even in his prime never amounted to anything which either he or ourselves could respect. Al Jarry made a repetitious and dull film, a series of hem in fact, for whom he knew not— and does not to this day. It has often been said by adherents of the experience of Mercerism that Wilbur Mercer is not a human being, that he is in fact an archetypal superior entity perhaps from another star. Well, in a sense this contention has proven correct. Wilbur Mercer is not human, does not in fact exist. The world in which he climbs is a cheap, Hollywood, commonplace sound stage which vanished into kipple years ago. And who, then, has spawned this hoax on the Sol System? Think about that for a time, folks.”

    Regarding Isidore with easy amusement, Roy Baty said, “It’s all over now, Iz. For Mercerism, I mean.” With his nails he managed to lift the corpse of the spider from the sink. “Maybe this was the last spider,” he said. “The last living spider on Earth.” He reflected. “In that case it’s all over for spiders, too.”

    “I don’t feel well,” Isidore said. From the kitchen cupboard he got a cup; he stood holding it for an interval he did not know exactly how long. And then he said to Roy Baty, “Is the sky behind Mercer just painted? Not real?”

    “You saw the enlargements on the TV screen,” Roy Baty said. “The brushstrokes.”

    “Mercerism isn’t finished,” Isidore said. Something ailed the three androids, something terrible. The spider, he thought. Maybe it had been the last spider on Earth, as Roy Baty said. And the spider is gone; Mercer is gone; he saw the dust and the ruin of the apartment as it lay spreading out everywhere — he heard the kipple coming, the final disorder of all forms, the absence which would win out. It grew around him as he stood holding the empty ceramic cup; the cupboards of the kitchen creaked and split and he felt the floor beneath his feet give.

    ...

    The wind blew, cracking and splintering the remaining bones, but he sensed the presence of Mercer. Come here, he said to Mercer. Crawl across my foot or find some other way of reaching me. Okay? Mercer, he thought. Aloud he said,
    “Mercer!”

    Across the landscape weeds advanced; weeds corkscrewed their way into the walls around him and worked the walls until they the weeds became their own spore. The spore expanded, split, and burst within the corrupted steel and shards of
    concrete that had formerly been walls. But the desolation remained after the walls had gone; the desolation followed after everything else. Except the frail, dim figure of Mercer; the old man faced him, a placid expression on his face.

    “Is the sky painted?” Isidore asked. “Are there really brushstrokes that show up under magnification?”

    “Yes,” Mercer said.

    “I can’t see them.”

    “You’re too close,” Mercer said. “You have to be a long way off, the way the androids are. They have better perspective.”

    “Is that why they claim you’re a fraud?”

    “I am a fraud,” Mercer said. “They’re sincere; their research is sincere. From their standpoint I am an elderly retired bit player named Al Jarry. All of it, their disclosure, is true. They interviewed me at my home, as they claim; I told them whatever they wanted to know, which was everything.”

    “Including about the whisky?”

    Mercer smiled. “It was true. They did a good job and from their standpoint Buster Friendly’s disclosure was convincing. They will have trouble understanding why nothing has changed. Because you’re still here and I’m still here.” Mercer indicated with a sweep of his hand the barren, rising hillside, the familiar place. “I lifted you from the tomb world just now and I will continue to lift you until you lose interest and want to quit. But you will have to stop searching for me because I will never stop searching for you.”

    “I didn’t like that about the whisky,” Isidore said. “That’s lowering.”

    “That’s because you’re a highly moral person. I’m not. I don’t judge, not even myself.” Mercer held out a closed hand, palm up. “Before I forget it, I have something of yours here.” He opened his fingers. On his hand rested the mutilated spider, but with its snipped-off legs restored.

    “Thanks.” Isidore accepted the spider. He started to say something further…

    An alarm bell clanged.

    Roy Baty snarled, “There’s a bounty hunter in the building! Get all the lights off. Get him away from that empathy box; he has to be ready at the door. Go on move him!”

    • 回复: @Apex Predator
  3. G. Poulin 说:

    He’s got it backwards. We should dump the social club, dump the charities, dump the poor— but keep the metaphysics, which is the only unique and valuable thing in Christianity. Skrbina shows himself to be a poser by his consistent mishandling of the New Testament passages he quotes. For instance, he imagines that “not peace but a sword” is a call to political violence. Wrong. The sword in this verse is obviously a metaphor for division or separation from the world and its affairs (including the mania for “world peace”). I could cite other examples, but why bother? The man clearly hasn’t done his homework, and is simply consulting his assumptions and prejudices. Not worth engaging.

  4. g8way 说:

    What I find ironic is that Skrbina’s approach to the Bible uses the thoroughly Jewish practice of deconstructionism through soundbites to portray the Bible and Paul and the Israelites of the Old Testament the same way as Jewish and Judaistic “scholars” of the first half of the 20th century did, which didn’t make a serious effort to understand what Jesus and the Apostles were explaining about what God was saying in the Old Testament (through prophets) or New Testament (through Jesus and the Apostles and Luke (who wasn’t a Jew)).

    I like MacDonald’s “Culture of Critique” model, but it’s not easy to find until well after the period described in the Bible, which does show the presence of what E Michael Jones calls the “Jewish Revolutionary Spirit” as early as the patriarch Jacob/Israel, but the prophets in the Old Testament as well as the books of the New Testament made diatribes against that very Revolutionary Spirit. I think MacDonald’s efforts would have been better spent showing how Skrbina has acted like modern Jews more than Paul did.

    And of course Skrbina’s premise that Paul invented Christianity evinces as much ignorance of the content of the Bible as Joe Atwill’s Caesar’s Messiah which says something similar about Josephus.

    • 同意: Arthur MacBride, simple mind
    • 回复: @Anon
    , @Jake
    , @simple mind
  5. Sparkon 说:
    @storxian

    最后,我们都接受神话为真理,

    No we don’t.

    But I do agree with Kevin McDonald’s conclusion that belief in myths may have evolutionary advantages. There is some safety in crowds, or the “mob,” when the mob starts pointing fingers, and burning “witches” and “warlocks.”

    因此,这不完全是一个“通过宗教调查,女巫焚烧,十字军东征和其他宗教暴行造成数百万人死亡的故事”。 但是可悲的现实是,当代基督教,或者至少是绝大多数基督教,完全反对历史上将其作为宗教信仰的人们的利益。

    毫无疑问,天主教会在西方文明的“进步”中发挥了重要作用,但是我们不知道如果没有教会,西方文明将会做什么。

    In general, I subscribe to the views of the late Dorothy M. (“D.M.”) Murdock – “Acharya S”

    …supporting the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed as a historical person, but was rather a mingling of various pre-Christian myths, Sun deities and dying-and-rising deities

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

    我的观点是,人类永远不会在古代童话的磨石下前进。

  6. Observator 说:

    The rabidly anti-Jewish tone that characterizes John’s gospel was created to distance the growing Jesus movement from its embarrassing origin among what loyal Romans dismissed as contemptible provincial barbarians. John wrote after the Judean rebellion of 66 – 70 CE, which abruptly ended traditional Roman tolerance of Judaism. This came about because the rebels treacherously slaughtered the men of the Jerusalem garrison after tricking them into laying down their arms on a false promise of safe conduct out of the country. John concocted the utterly implausible scene of the all-powerful Roman Prefect Pilate as virtually helpless before a vicious Jewish mob baying for Jesus’ blood for its great narrative power. John’s intended audience would have been very deeply touched by his composition, as they remembered with grief and fury the Jews of Jerusalem howling for the murders of their fathers and brothers in the uprising.

    John rewrote the central fact of Jesus’ life, his execution by Roman authorities for sedition, as the result of demonic Jewish hatred. It is evident that Jesus imagined himself the perfect “lamb of god”, whose blood sacrifice, on a Roman cross instead of a Jewish altar, would be so pleasing to Yahweh that he would return in power to save him at the last minute, just as he’d saved Isaac, and so usher in the kingdom. Accordingly Jesus, alone, contrived to violate a Roman law that carried the death penalty. If he had been the leader of an actual rebellion, dozens if not hundreds of followers would have been crucified alongside him. Jesus’ agonized last words, “father, why have you forsaken me?” are as moving a testimony as you will find anywhere in literature to the catastrophic result of religious fanaticism.

    Years later, another mentally unstable man has a visit from the long dead would-be savior, and we are off and running. I find it fascinating that nineteen hundred years later there was another man who was, like Paul, afflicted with hysterical blindness for two weeks after receiving his vision from god. In his case the message was that he was chosen to restore his nation to greatness. His name was A. Hitler, and today he inhabits quite the opposite end of the pantheon of western gods and demons – largely for following Paul’s and John’s advice on how to deal with Jews.

  7. anon[230]• 免责声明 说:
    @G. Poulin

    “Wrong. The sword in this verse is obviously a metaphor for division or separation from the world and its affairs ”
    Why does Jesus had to engage in abstract and esoteric polemic when the intended audience compsoed of uneducated strata ?

    Anyway NT of Greek or Latin Vulgate or James springs out of Roscharch picture to let mind read what mind wants to read .

    • 谢谢: Ian Smith
  8. storxian 说:
    @Sparkon

    Beg to differ

    https://whattherussia.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/when-worlds-collide/

    Saying that we don’t all buy into myths is just another of the myths that we all buy into, and one that inhibits progress that would take place if we took better account of the irrational constraints of human nature. As Hume said, “Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.” To say nothing of Heidegger or the rest of the vast intellectual tradition expanding this idea.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  9. anon[230]• 免责声明 说:

    St. Wiesel is in town ,is in town!

    “HE IS A 20TH-CENTURY EXAMPLE FOR OUR COUNTRY’
    Elie Wiesel to be first modern Jew honored with bust in US National Cathedral
    Nobel laureate and Holocaust memoirist joins fellow members-of-the-tribe Jesus and some apostles, along with humanitarians Mother Teresa, Rosa Parks, and Oscar Romero in DC shrine

    By RON KAMPEAS
    今天下午3:55
    以色列的时代

    • 回复: @Druid55
    , @Alden
  10. Anon[301]• 免责声明 说:

    Catholicism and mainline Protestantism have been completely corrupted? Not so much. The modern Church is merely following the Jewish-authored Bible more faithfully. The Rabbi Jesus character did plainly state that, “Salvation is from the Jews.” Christianity could be adapted to European 传统 only when reading the Jew-centric Bible was banned.

    “Wouldn’t Church officials also want to conceal that the disciples, led by James, the brother of Jesus, and Peter, continued to maintain their Jewish identities but made Rabbi Jesus the centerpiece of their Jewish practices (Acts of the Apostles).”

    为什么基督徒被拒绝使用圣经已有1,000年了
    Bernard Starr, College Professor (Emeritus, City University of N.Y),psychologist, journalist.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-christians-were-denied-access-to-their-bible-for-1000-years_b_3303545

    Now that the Bible is freely available to all, and its Jewish evil cannot effectively banned, Christianity itself must be abandoned, or it will continue its original purpose to feed off Traditional European culture like a blood sucking parasite. Romans 15:27–pre-saging Christian America’s foreign policy’s—greedily implores, “The Goyim [Gentiles] owe it [material wealth \$\$\$] to the Jews!”

  11. GeeBee 说:

    Skrbina claims that “The scattered anti-Jewish statements in all the Gospels—especially John—more reflect an internal Jewish battle over ideology than an external, Gentile attack” (107–108). This is a common scholarly view, but if you are trying to recruit Gentiles to your movement to serve Jewish interests, would you really want to litter your writing with anti-Jewish statements?

    This is careless to say the least. Having correctly noted that the (canonical) gospels were written long after Saul of Tarsus disappeared from the scene, and that it was Saul who sought (according to Skrbinas) to recruit gentiles in aid of Jews*, MacDonald in the quoted paragraph seeks to cast doubt upon any such motive regarding Saul, by pointing to anti-Jewish sentiments that were written long after he was seeking to attract gentiles to his new version of the Jewish faith. A logical non-sequitor and indeed a howler of sorts.

    MacDonald then proceeds to compound his illogical offerings by admitting, only a few paragraphs later, that “whatever the beliefs and motives of St. Paul and the Gospel writers, the Church had essentially become an anti-Jewish movement by the fourth century when Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire”. Precisely: the gospels were not written by Saul or his ‘team’, but by gentiles and much later, at a time when it was politic to distance oneself from any taint of Jew-sympathy. MacDonald even points to the fourth gospel’s bashing of the Jews as being a sop to Roman sensibilities in the aftermath of the first Jewish War (which began in CE66, and not as MacDonald states in CE70, but I merely quibble here).

    I admire Professor MacDonald immensely, and it is precisely because of this that his shoddy treatment in this part of his review was so striking. Otherwise, many thanks for an interesting review.

    * Nor is Skrbinas’ thesis in any way novel: Jewish writer Marcus Ravage made exactly the same point – that Saul sought to co-opt gentiles into serving Jewish ambitions (essentially to weaponise the goyim against the hated ‘Kittim’) almost a hundred years ago in his 外邦人小卖部 (Century magazine. February 1928, volume 115, number 4, pages 476–483.)

  12. Sparkon 说:
    @storxian

    That’s pretty much a circular argument.

    Human beings have evolved enough cognitive abilities to find food and reproduce, not enough to grasp objective absolute truth. We are stuck in our reductionistic, dichotomizing, comforting narratives

    Broad sweeping generalizations. In any event, grasping “objective absolute truth” about the universe or even Earth is a fairly lofty goal, and how would you even know when you got there?

    There are many mysteries of the universe, and much remains unknown even about our own planet, or the workings of our brains, and of course there are popular “myths” about health and nutrition, but I am talking primarily about religious myths, and popular myths, as in either sense of its dictionary definition:

    神话 名词

    1) a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

    2) a widely held but false belief or idea.

    But go ahead, if you like, and trot out some myths you think I or others might believe in. I’m not much impressed by long-winded sophistry. That’s why I always ask for real-world examples, although I’m not even from Missouri.

    • 回复: @storxian
  13. Marcion was right. Jews are possessed by the evil demiurge. We need to rid all Christianity of the Jewish Spirit through a return to Marcionism.



    视频链接

    • 同意: Robin Hood
  14. follyofwar 说:

    Unless I missed it, Mr. MacDonald didn’t mention that David Skrbina’s book is available on Amazon. (Kindle \$4, and the print edition \$20). The print edition is only 138 pages, so it wouldn’t take days and days to read it. I might go for the Kindle.

    Another book on the lies underlying Christianity is “Christ’s Ventriloquists,” by Eric Zeuss. Per Zuess, Christianity, as a separate distinct religion, was Paul’s (Saul’s) invention. His breakaway sect of Christian Jews was at odds the sect who followed Christ’s brother James, which remained more traditional. Paul wasn’t making much traction in converting the pagans until he split from James’ sect (which died), and abandoned circumcision as a requirement for entry into Christianity. Once Paul became an outspoken enemy of the Jewish requirement, Christianity took off. In doing so, Zeuss labels Paul the Greatest Salesman of all Time. Sadly, those millions of US Evangelical Christians, who continue to practice circumcision, have no idea that opposition to the barbaric rite is, (or used to be), central to their religion.

    But the best article I’ve recently read on the subject to date is by Thomas Dalton, “Christianity: The Great Jewish Hoax,” (National Vanguard, 9 Aug. 2020). Dalton often appears on the pages of TUR. I highly recommend his essay.

    • 回复: @Lucy Lipinska
    , @ivegotrythm
  15. Anonymous[249]• 免责声明 说:

    For consider your call, brethren, not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth; but God chose what is foolish to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are. (Skrbina’s emphasis)

    Am I the only one who is reminded of Orwell’s 1984?

  16. Skrbina最后声称保罗的谎言是成功的:“花了数百年,但当足够多的人为骗局而堕落时,它帮助推翻了罗马帝国”(122)。 他将谎言描述为“致命威胁”:“最终吸引2亿人口,成为真理和理性的敌人,并通过宗教审判,女巫焚烧,十字军东征和其他宗教暴行造成数百万人死亡”

    我认为,基督教教义有一个中心真理,那就是,如果一个上帝希望获得绝对和不受挑战的全球忠诚度,那么他可以毫不费力地做到这一点。 他需要做的只是在大约一个世代中出现一次(不考虑技术的出现)。

    没有上帝做出如此精心安排的个人外表表明,要么不存在,要么这是通常在他本人故意创造的自然系统的宏观范围内行动的上帝,这意味着这些外表实际上是无所不在的,但是我们在大多数情况下,精神上根本不足以识别它们。

    我们世界上的自然系统以一种特殊的方式运作-重大的,看似微不足道的牺牲,在人类社会中产生了360度的连锁反应,并以此方式按照他本人建立的系统运作了上帝的旨意。

    上帝之子的基督徒自我牺牲活动遵循这些自然法则-基督教制度尤其不要求burn祭或精心制作的圣殿建筑,也没有特别指定的世袭牧师班级。 它要求公正对待您周围的人,特别是对最少的人礼貌,而不是赞美最崇高的人。

    我所知道的所有其他宗教,从人类到神灵,都拥有相同的公共牺牲建筑,其主要目的是从神职人员中获利,并通过一个或多个神灵向国家提出服从–
    而在基督教中,上帝牺牲了自己的儿子,以受益于他较小的创造物,从而使他们摆脱了他本人已经建立的自然系统的逾期未决的审判。

    从考古发现到人口遗传学的一切观点,我个人的看法都使我得出这样的结论:进入埃及的亚伯拉罕宗教与后来出现的宗教不同,指示性的误导是多种多样的-没有迹象表明例如,法利赛犹太教的前身甚至知道“希伯来语” /“哈比鲁”是什么。

    因此,尽管我在一定程度上同意,您在新约某些段落中所看到的可能是对希腊犹太人在对待我的法利赛犹太教时经常感到愤怒的最好解释,但我们毫无疑问地知道希伯来圣经的主要组成部分包括其主要人口组成部分在内的数据与文献中所记载的不一样,所表示的契约不可能与旧约文献所写的相同。

    这并不是要攻击或否认任何人的宗教信仰,而只是说明如果对虔诚者采取了这样的干预措施,那么只是在某一时刻提供了恳求者,然后腐败了,就像崇拜异教徒的风暴/太阳/月亮之神,为广大民众的利益更正这些观念的坚实基础,这是耶稣故事的基础。

    我们并没有被告知要像大多数宗教制度那样,简单地接受源于肥沃新月的早期人民的庙宇神父或寓言的宣告,而是-
    “问,应给你; 寻找,你们将找到; 敲门,它就会向你敞开。”

    • 谢谢: TKK
    • 回复: @TKK
    , @The Soft Parade
    , @anonymous
  17. 我一直在读理查德·卡利尔(Richard Carrier)的 论耶稣的历史性在古代的宗教和其他文化事件的背景下,其中包含对书信和福音的良好批评。 即使您不同意开利的结论,即基于近东神秘教派与犹太人渴望弥赛亚将犹太人从罗马人和协作者神殿中释放出来的犹太人渴望融合的结论,我仍然建议您这样做,即使您不同意开利的结论崇拜福音书的明显历史性,将耶稣确定为神人,发生的时间要晚得多,这是由于历史主义者的胜利及其给教会管理机构的好处所致,教会管理机构可以指出所谓的历史事件和说法,而不是依赖于启示。和旧约中的秘密信息。

    他特别令我印象深刻的一点是使徒信经中对庞蒂斯·彼拉多的认同,这是信经中唯一的完全人性化的,历史上绝对可识别的人物(门徒中没有一个被任命,耶稣的父亲约瑟也没有被任命)。 为什么耶稣“在庞蒂乌斯彼拉多的痛苦下受苦”如此重要? 开利的回答是,通过要求s依者确认这一信条,他们承认耶稣的历史性,不能声称他的牺牲发生在天地之间,这在原始神话中可能就是这种情况。

    但是从来没有人谈论过他的宗教信仰!

  18. storxian 说:
    @Sparkon

    Yeah there are dozens of overlapping widely held but false beliefs that are also traditional stories that we all believe. they don’t have to explain ‘it all’. That America is a democracy or its economy is capitalistic, that any one country has a monopoly on or disproportionate share of progress, morality, victimhood, honour, progress, etc etc. One week we all believe butter is unhealthy, the next week we’re making bullet-proof coffee. It’s one or the other, or there’s a bit of myth in both. This article buys into the myth that there is continuity from the apostolic time to Catholicism as the authoritative inheritor of that tradition, that’s a myth. the myth of progress is probably a myth. definitely from a Chinese, cyclical perspective. that the conflict in Ukraine is a result of Russian aggression, that the US/UK wanted the nazis to lose on the eastern front, that national identity is older than the french revolution, especially among the peasantry, that the USSR was a natural outgrowth from marxism rather than a self-asserted deviation into a highly innovative martial version thereof, with a permanent war cabinet and martial law unenvisioned by, and opposed by, the dogmatic Marxists in Germany…. that Buddhism is always peaceful, that the American revolution was a success given that it was originally based on a taxation grievance, but after it taxes rose by about 7 times. That homosexuality is in-born and sexuality is a social construct at the same time, or one or the other, or neither… that every human trait that we once explained with things like phrenology is now ‘objectively’ explained with the still too nascent field of genetics. Shall we get into Covid myths?

    I mean, much of what happens on this site is disputing myths, no side of any such dispute can ultimately prove objectivity on matters of race, etc etc etc. Sorry, myth is the human condition.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  19. Sparkon 说:
    @storxian

    dozens of overlapping widely held but false beliefs that are also traditional stories that we all believe.

    Your mistake is believing that everyone thinks alike about everything and we all have those shared myths you enumerated. We don’t, but I suppose it depends on your education, circle of acquaintances, and experiences in life.

    For example, many people practice some organized or disorganized religion, but about 4% are atheists and 5% agnostic. Atheists don’t believe in any god. Agnostics don’t know if there is a god or not because there is no way to know. You virtually never hear any agnostic point of view in the MSM, because they do try to promote all the popular myths, but many of us realize that anything on the boob tube is likely to be phony.

    As noted, my view is that all of man’s religions were made up by men. They are glorified fairy tales. TV came into my life about the same the OT did, so it was like I was seeing the same kind of Jewish script writing in both media, although I didn’t know who was behind it all then.

    One week we all believe butter is unhealthy, the next week we’re making bullet-proof coffee.

    I’ve never believed that butter is unhealthy. Those kinds of “beliefs” are fads pursued by some, but certainly not by everyone. Fads and crazes come and go over time, often depending on what some celebrity wrote in a book, said on the boob tube or in the press, now on Twitter and the other social media, where I do not participate.

    I’ve never been overweight, or even close, and so diet, lo-fat, and lite products don’t interest me.

    One taste of diet soda back in the ’50s convinced me never to drink that nasty crap again, but every so often, they have tried to slip me a diet soda in the drive-thru, sneaky klutzes, and of course the horrid taste is immediately unpleasant, all the more so if you’ve already pulled away, so it’s worthwhile to 尝试 to remember to take a sip before driving off, which requires concentration and focus to unsheathe the straw, poke it through the lid into the container, take a sip, dispose of the sheath, and so on, while the hired help hands out first your change, then the drink, then your food, then the receipt.

    Similarly, at Star Bucks, when I order Iced Tea, they try to give me their pre-made concoction with an artificial sweetener already in there, so it’s a dangerous world, and that’s no myth, depending of course on how you define danger.

    conflict in Ukraine is a result of Russian aggression, that the US/UK wanted the nazis to lose on the eastern front, that national identity is older than the french revolution, especially among the peasantry, that the USSR was a natural outgrowth from marxism rather than a self-asserted deviation into a highly innovative martial version

    Well, that’s quite a hodge podge of special pleading, especially where you try to define both sides of the argument vis a vis the USSR, and fail, simply because Stalin and his Bolshevik cohorts were little more than a gang of murderous thugs. You must be Russian.

    We’ve had any number of discussions at UR about the “Eastern Front,” and as I recall, nobody here sees the question the same way I do, i.e. that Stalin and his Bolshevik co-conspirators set up the Germans, and lured them into attacking a much stronger foe, one that had been preparing for war for almost 20 years, even before the Bolsheviks had consolidated power.

    The foundation for the ultimate overwhelming power of the Red Army in WWII, their Great Patriotic War, was laid down in the 1920s with Western help, primarily from Americans like Taylor and Ford, and financed by all the gold, jewels, and other wealth the Communists could steal from the murdered Tsar, Russian banks, the Church, and the Russian people and the other Soviet nationalities, with Western financiers making up the rest.

    “The myth of progress is a myth.”

    So, progress is no myth?

    When it comes to automotive engineering, I’d say it’s no myth. There’s been quite a bit of progress over the last 50 or more years in that field, not that it is the only field where there has been a lot of progress. Certainly I see that automotive engineering progress when I compare my first car to the one I drive now, which is 20 years old but going strong and seeming to be bulletproof.

    By contrast, my first car was a nine-year-old ’54 Pontiac that needed a 1/2-quart of oil with every tank of gas, but even that ol’ Poncho left a pretty small blue exhaust cloud compared to some of the really spectacular thundercloud smokers I’ve seen in the past, but of course virtually all of those super polluters are off the road now, thanks to emission tests.

    Sorry, myth is the human condition.

    For you maybe, but not for me.

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @storxian
  20. Thomasina 说:
    @GeeBee

    “…that Saul sought to co-opt gentiles into serving Jewish ambitions (essentially to weaponise the goyim against the hated ‘Kittim’)…”

    The gentiles would be the equivalent of Black Lives Matter today?

    The Kittim would be the equivalent of Whites today?

    Using another group in order to further your own tribe?

    MacDonald says: “As an evolutionist, my working hypothesis is that when it comes to the realm of ideas, evolution does not aim for truth but rather for success in continuing one’s family and increasing the prospects of one’s tribe.”

    Look at the untruths being told today, outright lies. History is being retold, statues toppled. Even kinship is being ripped apart over politics, ideology, right down to Covid. Life is chaotic and confusing. Divide and conquer. Today’s color revolution is rainbow-colored: black, brown, yellow, red, gay, lesbian, trans. It’s the Rainbow Revolution.

    All to ensure the advancement of one particular tribe’s way of life, their future, and get rid of the Romans. If it is being done now, I’m quite certain it was done in the past. Narcissists don’t evolve. They stay the same and make you adapt to them.

    • 回复: @GeeBee
  21. Kevin MacDonald: “Since I am not a believer …”

    This is surely a strange admission for Kevin MacDonald to make, since in the preface to Giles Corey’s book, he endorsed Christianity as the way forward for whites, writing “I agree entirely with Corey’s conclusions and recommendations for a revival centered around the adaptive aspects of Christianity— …”

    Is he dissembling here in an attempt to preserve the illusion of his scholarly objectivity, or does he really mean being a believing Christian is only for other whites, of lower IQ perhaps, a case of do as I say, not as I do? Also, he doesn’t appear to have thought very carefully about the conclusion of that sentence in the preface I just quoted, which continues “the aspects that produced Western expansion, innovation, discovery, individual freedom, economic prosperity, and strong family bonds. ” The West was Christian, yes. But how did Christianity make any contribution at all to expansion, innovation, and discovery? Where does Jesus recommend his followers go conquer the world? Where does it say in the Bible that Christianity has anything to do with innovation or discovery? Nowhere, afaik. Further, Christianity’s track record with such endeavors isn’t very good, to put it mildly. It destroyed all the beginnings of science in the ancient world, and those texts that survived only survived by accident, having been proscribed after the Christian takeover of the Roman Empire. Christianity has typically opposed scientific innovation, from Bruno and Galileo right up to Darwin, whose theory of evolution, ironically enough for an evolutionist such as MacDonald, it continues to oppose.

    他的结论是:

    毫无疑问,天主教和主教新教已被彻底腐化并积极地被颠覆,以致成千上万的美国白人被多元文化主义和替代级别的移民作为道德上的当务之急而席卷而来。 犹太激进主义当然是其中的一部分,但是传统的基督教普遍主义和道德平均主义也是其中的一部分。 也许有人会说,尽管基督教具有很高的适应能力,但它仍然携带着自己毁灭的种子-一旦西方文化被我们的新的敌对精英所颠覆,它的装甲上的缝隙就使得颠覆相对容易。

    But what can he mean when he both affirms that traditional Christianity’s universalism and egalitarianism were “seeds of its own destruction”, and that it was at the same time “subverted”? One online dictionary defines the word subvert thusly:

    动词(与对象一起使用)
    to overthrow (something established or existing).
    to cause the downfall, ruin, or destruction of.
    to undermine the principles of; corrupt.

    Christianity’s principles of universalism and egalitarianism in this case are being implemented, not overthrown. Far from being “subverted”, that Christianity has been faithful to its principles is precisely what he’s complaining about! Insofar as I can make any sense at all of what he’s saying, it seems he advocates a revival of the old corrupt Christianity that, not always successfully, tried to ignore these principles. Seems like a losing proposition all around.

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
    , @Adûnâi
    , @Johan
  22. GeeBee 说:
    @Thomasina

    Exactly. In truth, dear lady, you have gauged my meaning!

  23. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    And account the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

    As also in all 他的 epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as 他们是这样 also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know 这些东西 before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    – 2 Peter 3:14–17
    詹姆斯国王版

    • 谢谢: GomezAdddams
  24. Anonymous[162]• 免责声明 说:
    @Sparkon

    What kind of idiot buys iced tea at Starbucks? That’s why I don’t care about anything you might say.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  25. Sparkon 说:
    @Anonymous

    What kind of idiot buys iced tea at Starbucks?

    The kind of “idiot” who is on a long-distance car journey to see his dying mother might pause briefly in his desperate journey to grab a cold drink, or the kind of “idiot” who needs some high-speed bandwidth might spend an hour or two at Starbucks, or even the kind of “idiot” who is just thirsty for some iced tea while running errands – just to mention three kinds of people you in your ignorance might classify as “idiots.”

    Do you judge all people by such trivial matters without even thinking it through?

    I recommend you put me on ‘ignore’ so you won’t get confused by what I write.

    It’s too much for you, and your brain might explode.

  26. Anon[159]• 免责声明 说:

    Truth is what matters.

    真相。

    The Jews and their Lies only serve to obscure the Truth.

    为什么?

    Because they Hate the Truth, and all those that reverence it.

    真相。

    Jesus of Nazareth, Who came to bear witness to…

    真相。

    • 谢谢: omegabooks
  27. @G. Poulin

    The American Philosopher of Myth, Joseph Campbell, argued that “myth” is essential to the very wellbeing of human beings. I agree with your attitude towards Skrbina.

    • 同意: Thomasina
  28. storxian 说:
    @Sparkon

    Didn’t say everyone all believes the same things, bud. We believe in different myths. Growing up is a in large part a process of realizing how little we know, how little access to objective ‘fact’ we have. that’s what Socrates and others called wisdom.

  29. The problem I see with attacking Christianity is that Whites have a hard time without it. Christianity has always had flaws but the most baseless belief is that removing religion and especially Christianity will somehow improve the West politically. What we call Christianity certainly has Jewish origins but history has shown that it can bend to the will of the natural hierarchy which the left of course has suppressed. Constantine was well aware its utility and helped forge a religion for his empire that Jews have long considered blasphemous as it goes against their belief that the messiah has not returned. So it is certainly more complicated than depicting it as a Jewish religion or created by Jews as an anti-Roman force.

    I know the Unz Evangelical Atheist Men’s Choir would like to believe otherwise but the data is very clear and consistent in that when Whites leave Christianity most go to the competing religion which is liberalism. This has happened in both the US and Europe where the most secular areas are also the most leftist.

    Anyone that thinks atheists are not religious is free to go to a secular humanist meet up and politely ask how all races would end up with the same traits even though they were separated for over 50k years. You will be asked to never return and they will never look at you the same even though they won’t have an answer to that question. You will also find that they are deeply uncomfortable with criticizing Islam and Judaism but have an unexplained free license to bash Christianity to no end. Is it by mere chance that secularism so quickly rallies around attacks on Christianity but defends Islam? Something stinks about this contradiction.

    Detractors will point out that in theory it does not have to be this way. But that is the world we live in and as I said the data is very consistent. Very few Whites can think outside liberalism once they have decided to leave Christianity. Without Evangelicals Trump would not have won and Hillary would be entering her second term.

    In college I could not believe how many intelligent Whites believed liberalism was “the science” and yet would get hysterical if you even hinted that something might not be adding up with race. Liberalism is very effective in trapping intelligent Whites so one should tread carefully here.

    I would also add that Christian tithe is voluntary while we are forced to fund liberalism by threat of imprisonment.

  30. Dutch Boy 说:

    Paul was a proud, even boastful citizen of Rome while he considered the Jews (meaning, in his time, those Jews who followed the Scribes and Pharisees and opposed the early Christians) as enemies of the human race.

  31. Toza 说:

    When someone tries to explain spiritual things with deficient logic, it just turns out very superficial. You have to be very arrogant to think that if you haven’t experienced or understood or felt something, it doesn’t exist.

    • 同意: ivegotrythm
  32. Alden 说:
    @Observator

    What was the Roman law Jesus violated?

    • 同意: Alfred
    • 回复: @Alfred
    , @Jonathan Mason
  33. Excal 说:
    @Sparkon

    毫无疑问,天主教会在西方文明的“进步”中发挥了重要作用,但是我们不知道如果没有教会,西方文明将会做什么。

    当然我们不能肯定地知道这一点,但是古代世界为这项研究提供了相当不错的控制:它走了很长一段路,然后才开始漫长而缓慢地陷入混乱。

    一旦西方掌握在教会手中,它便能够幸存下来,而伊斯兰教的小行星,瘟疫,然后的宗教改革每次都变得更加强大。 现在它正在与现代主义作斗争,我相信结果将是相似的。

    最近的150-200年确实提供了另一个迹象:没有教会,西方(或东方)就朝着恐怖和混乱的方向滑行。

    • 回复: @anonymous
  34. Avianthro 说:

    请阅读霍尔格·科尔斯顿(Holger Kersten)的“耶稣在印度生活”和“耶稣的阴谋:都灵裹尸布和关于复活的真相”,以获取更多的观点。

    正如克斯坦(Kersten)的历史考古研究和尼采(Nietzsche)的分析所表明的那样:耶稣是佛教徒,是犹太人。 保罗对佛教一无所知,但他是一个非常热情的犹太人,他对耶稣印象深刻,并撰写了一个故事,试图使耶稣与犹太教和谐相处……犹太佛教,就像试图将油和水混合在一起,以及这种疯狂的,不合逻辑的调和下层阶级,把他们变成新法老下的新犹太人,然后促成一个已经衰落的王国的最后沦陷。 今天的“左派”是衰落的新罗马的新基督徒吗?

  35. anon[307]• 免责声明 说:

    1. Individual souls were seen as having moral agency and equal value in the eyes of God—a theology that has had very negative effects in the contemporary world.

    what? please elaborate.

    2. orthodox jews today are pharisees. the jewish elite of jesus’s time were sadducees who later became karaites. the mishnah wasn’t completed until 100 years after the NT was completed.

    3. skrbina is a professor of “philosophy” in the english speaking world and therefore a ridiculous person who wouldn’t know metaphysics if it sodomized him.

    4. how could a u mich prof get away with what skrbina says about jews? are things not as horrible on campus as i’ve heard?

  36. 作为最终的自由主义者,这位作者努力追求6000字的美德信号,以证明...
    树立自己是一个白手起家的人,可以为上帝省去许多麻烦。

  37. @El Dato

    What the fuck are you on about mate? You quote a wall of text which only in the most tangential way could be connected to the article with no explanation as if it’s so axiomatically obvious everyone should immediately understand. Hubris and assumption are a bad combo, just FYI…

    • 回复: @SunBakedSuburb
  38. John Johnson: “The problem I see with attacking Christianity is that Whites have a hard time without it. ”

    That’s a statement of titanic idiocy considering that it was precisely during the nineteenth century, when America was almost 100% white and fanatically Christian, it chose to fight a bloody civil war over the negro question, and afterwards made these ape-men citizens and gave them the vote. It was during this period of fanatic “traditional” Christianity that the USA was, if anything, even more committed to racial equality than today. Of course, now there will inevitably arise a chorus from the peanut gallery exclaiming that American Christianity of that time wasn’t “real” Christianity, spiraling this whole thread down to an even deeper level of stupid. Thanks a lot, Johnson!

  39. Seraphim 说:

    You know that a major Christian Feast is approaching when the atheist cohorts of the ‘cancel (Christian) culture’ open fire (not rarely physical) against ”The Great Jewish Hoax” as they are wont to call Christianity, spewing they hatred of it. Every Christmas or Easter there is a sudden flurry of articles, talk shows, documentaries, ‘challenging’ the ‘traditional views’ held by the IQ challenged ‘believers’ (there is a ”consistent negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity”, isn’t it?) with the same stale platitudes (rehashes of Celsus anti-Christian diatribes) presented like ‘fresh discoveries’, no matter that they have been discredited for long (like the new wave of popularity of Marcion’s ‘canon’). But there are new generations that have to be ‘enlightened’. The blind leading the blind towards the same pit.
    But it is hard to see how that can possibly advance the ‘White’ agenda, when they alienate even the ‘White’ Christians.

  40. Alfred 说:

    People need myths. Maybe the Jesus story is 50% truth. I have no idea.

    Currently, many people believe in the virus myth. That is their choice. I have no problem with their belief. I only object when they try to impose their belief on others and pretend that science is on their side.

    The Jews have spread many false beliefs – that they were enslaved in Egypt is a typical one. But there are many more. Many people in the West even believe that the Jews built the pyramids. 🙂

    It is our duty to point out these obvious lies when we come across them.

    Here is an unusually honest article in Haaretz. This obviously renders null the story that the Jews settled at that time in Palestine – something Haaretz would be somewhat reluctant to put in print. 🙂

    The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. Yes, there’s the story contained within the bible itself, but that’s not a remotely historically admissible source. I’m talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources. Of these, nothing exists.

    Were Jews Ever Really Slaves in Egypt, or Is Passover a Myth?

    Where is the real proof – archaeological evidence, state records and primary sources?

    • 同意: Lucy Lipinska
  41. Druid55 说:
    @anon

    Absolutely insane! We live in a zio-asylum!

  42. Franz 说:

    European people saved themselves from the worst that monotheism offers by being essentially polytheist in their thinking. Christ has metamorphed many times in the West. As whether he was a mercy-god, a war-god, a close-the-borders god or a scientific god, he always rose to the challenge of the times. Lately he’s the Israeli rapture god, which is unsettling.

    So it isn’t Christ we must question, but the very idea of “monotheism” as a rudimentary system of thought. Yahweh tells his people he’s “the only god” then directly after tells them he does good, evil and whatever else he wants. This makes for a mental disorder, because he’s only one entity but you never know which aspect of this entity you are dealing with.

    Polytheism, with clarity and wit, takes what Plotinus calls The One and like a prism with light, gives us each a slice of color that represents our place in the divine spectrum. Apart from making sense and keeping all of us where we belong, it is also a great deal more elegant.

    Jewish theologians always called Christians “pagans”.

    Christians just can’t see what a compliment that is.

    • 同意: Kali
    • 回复: @anonymous
  43. Agathoklis 说:

    “…when Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire”

    I stopped reading there. Mr McDonald, at least get the basics right.

  44. Rogue 说:
    @John Johnson

    很棒的评论。

    Your comment way better than McDonald’s article (though I do generally like his stuff).

    Christianity is not about hating Jews – and it is abundantly clear that God has not given up on them; indeed, has good plans for them.

    However, scripture tells us (Christians) to be as gentle as doves, but also to be as wise as serpents. In other words, don’t be a sap or taken for a fool.

    I used to be a Christian Zionist for most of my life. I’m still a Christian, but have discarded the Zionist stuff.

    However, I don’t hate Jews or Israel. And Israel has a right to exist.

    I just wish Jewish supremacists (not that I’m labelling all Jews this way) would extend the same sentiments to Western countries as well.

    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
  45. Anon[362]• 免责声明 说:
    @g8way

    The thoroughly Jewish practice, say you? How thoroughly Jewish practice is celebrating the Jewish child-sacrifice holiday called Passover? “Christ our Passover lamb is sacrificed!”

    It’s amazing how some Unz commenters can detect anything Jewish is the most innocuous things, but can’t quite figure out that Passover is Jewish. Yet the Vicar of Christ himself proclaims, “Inside every Christian is a Jew.” He’s right, who else celebrates Passover but Jews? Some Unz commenters say Jews hate when you “name the Jew.” That is certainly true when naming the Jews—especially the Christian sect of Jews who follow Rabbi Jewsus—here at Unz. It’s like shining light on cockroaches under a musty cardboard box. They go a scurrying, with excuse after excuse why “Christ our Passover lamb” is somehow not a thoroughly Jewish practice. Christians are Jews. They squabble with other sects of Jews over who is the Real Jew, which is yet another thoroughly Jewish practice. I’m naming the Jew. Watch them wail.

  46. FatR 说:

    任何受过一点教育的人都可以立即将Skrbina遣散为:

    (a)另一个自我鞭打的民族混血儿,他不仅认为自己的人民是愚蠢的牛,可以被欺骗数千年,而且还对自己在其他民族之上的优越性完全充满信心,这不仅是对他们的特殊对待。一个成功的国家,却是一个东西 。 犹太人尽管在整个历史上都受到屈服,但只有坚持这种信念才是著名的。

    (b)另一个骗子在基督教方面突然开始使用完全不同的证据标准。

    (c)另一个昏昏欲睡的人试图说,某人本来可以故意发明一个从公元1世纪异教徒的角度来看完全荒谬可笑的故事-从核心前提开始,一直到最小的细节,例如女性是它的核心奇迹的第一批见证者-公元1世纪的异教徒。 唯一的问题是,他是恶意的愚蠢的还是愚蠢的愚蠢的人,诚实地相信自己的废话。

  47. dimples 说:
    @Observator

    Bollocks. Jesus got himself executed because he made what is in the Torah a mortal sin. He had made false prophecies concerning the arrival of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus went about prophesying the ‘Good News’ that the Kingdom was at hand. After a period of time, possibly a year (of our Lord), he realized that he Kingdom wasn’t coming after all. Thus he had made a false prophecy which under the Law of Moses was punishable by death.

    It’s all there in the story of the fig tree in the garden, and the fig tree Jesus zapped on the way to doing the act which would get himself executed, the cleansing of the Temple of the money changers. On the way back from this affair, it was noted the fig tree was dead. Like the fig tree, Jesus had not borne fruit, and was thus liable to be rooted out. As well, he was now being followed around by a crowd who thought he was the Messiah, when he himself realized (since the Kingdom had not come) that he wasn’t. His only choice was to do the honorable thing and commit himself to execution.

  48. dimples 说:
    @Observator

    In fact, Jesus got himself executed because he made what is in the Torah a mortal sin. He had made false prophecies concerning the arrival of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus had gone about prophesying the ‘Good News’ that the Kingdom was at hand. After a period of time, possibly the proverbial year of our Lord, he realized that the Kingdom wasn’t coming after all. Thus he had made a false prophecy to the people, which under the Law of Moses was punishable by death.

    It’s all there in the story of the fig tree in the garden, and the fig tree Jesus zapped on the way to the Temple to do the act which would get himself executed, ie cleansing it of the money changers. On the way back from turfing out the money changers, it was noted the fig tree was dead. Like the fig tree, Jesus was saying that he himself had not borne fruit, the Kingdom had not come, and was thus himself liable to be rooted out. As well, he was now being followed around by a crowd who thought he was the Messiah, when he himself had realized (since the Kingdom had not come) that he wasn’t. His only choice was to do the honorable thing and commit himself to execution.

    It’s the Gospel Truth!

    • 回复: @dimples
  49. edofkent 说:

    Paul was NOT a Jew but an Israelite. Jews are NOT Israelites. Roman Catholicism is a shambles and Paul does not figure in it’s pagan canon, which sells itself as ‘Christianity’ and sells rubbish re-packaged pagan festivals Christmas, Easter and of course sells the bogus Trinity, which does not exist.

    This author has NO idea what he is talking about. Garbage in = garbage out.

    https://holybibletruthseekers.wordpress.com/2020/08/29/all-the-jews-fit-to-print-part-1-the-salary-men-of-fake-jews/

  50. Anon[362]• 免责声明 说:
    @John Johnson

    It’s a common Christian lie to say anybody who isn’t Christian is somehow an atheist. You’re doing exactly what the Jew Paul did in Romans 3:7, “For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?” Lying to advance the Jewish Rabbi Jesus cult is still lying. Stop behaving like the lying Jew Paul.

    You were born right the first time, it’s ok to be white.

    • 回复: @FedUp
  51. dimples 说:
    @dimples

    参考文献:

    Luke 13:6-9 Fig tree in garden

    Mark 11:12-20 Fig tree cursed on way to Temple

  52. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    > “…or does he really mean being a believing Christian is only for other whites, of lower IQ perhaps, a case of do as I say, not as I do?”

    This is such a fascinating question! For isn’t it correct that most folks are incredibly stupid, uninquisitive and conformist? Even more, certain rules that might be constraining and arbitrary to a free thinker are in actuality wholesome and guiding to the populace at large? The rule of the mob ends swiftly – and only a hypothetical culling of the normies so famously feared by Christian conspirologists could prevent a reestablishment of a hierarchic morality.

    > “Christianity’s principles of universalism and egalitarianism in this case are being implemented, not overthrown.”

    As Chechar once said, Christianity is the ultimate conclusion of Judaism.

    > “Far from being “subverted”, that Christianity has been faithful to its principles is precisely what he’s complaining about!”

    A question might be asked as to what changed the traditionalist strain of the Christian mental virus. Protestantism? Literacy? North American colonisation? The Industrial Age? A witch’s brew in the America’s happiness-pursuing melting pot? The First Amendment which prohibited censorship? Or simply the geographic position of America guarded by the oceans which incubated this most hideous cultural monstrosity?

    > “…it seems he advocates a revival of the old corrupt Christianity that, not always successfully, tried to ignore these principles. Seems like a losing proposition all around.”

    © Friedrich Nietzsche, The Anti-Christ, 61

    Luther saw only the 腐败 of the papacy at the very moment when the opposite was becoming apparent: the old corruption, the peccatum originale, Christianity itself, no longer occupied the papal chair! Instead there was life! Instead there was the triumph of life! Instead there was a great yea to all lofty, beautiful and daring things!… And Luther restored the church: he attacked it….

    • 回复: @Realist
  53. Leaving aside the mythic ornaments (the miracles, the resurrection), which are peripheral and inessential, the four canonical Gospels and the apocryphal texts (notably the Gospel of Thomas) present a consistent account of a coherent philosophy. The thought and preaching of Jesus originate as and constitute a profound and fundamental critique of Jewish ethics and contemporary practice. Foremost, it opposes the Hebrew “ethics” of retribution (“an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth”) with an ethics based on forgiveness, healing, compassion, mutual understanding, consensus, and it opposes the Hebrew emphasis on exclusivity and formalized rectitude with a humanitarian sense of the equality of all souls. In Jesus’s view humanity is not divided into Chosen and Goyim. He ministers to Samarians as well as Jews. Jesus’s preaching particularly targets the predatory social and economic arrangements by which the Jewish elite of his day oppressed and exploited the great mass of Jews in violation of the dictates of the Torah law. (A key explication of this aspect of his preaching is William R. Herzog, Parables as Subversive Speech.) Much of his preaching amounts to what, today, would be called “political economy.” Notably, the only time Jesus displays anger and acts on it is in scourging the money-changers out of the Temple — on the first day of Holy Week, according to the frame story, this is the act that precipitated his execution at the instigation of the Rabbinate — closely allied, then and for centuries before and ever after, with the “money-changers.”

    Jesus’s preaching was twisted, subverted and betrayed, in the first place evidently by Paul, from a concern with life as lived among men to a “religious” concern with extra-worldly concerns. The course of patristic discourse elaborated this curse, notably in the work of Augustine, who re-imported the Jewish obsession with retribution under the guise of “sin.” (The concept of “sin” is entirely missing from the Gospels; the Greek word mis-translated as “sin,” hamartia, means ‘missing the mark,’ ‘making a mistake’). Thus Christianity as a whole came to represent a perversion, a betrayal, and a reversal of Jesus’s teaching. This continued into the mainstream “protestant” tradition basically unaltered — Luther was schooled in an Augustinian seminary — although some “radical,” marginalized sects have tried — some still try — to practice Jesus’s preaching uncontaminated by the “Old Testament” poison Jesus tried to counter. And God bless them for it.

    • 同意: Kali
    • 回复: @Levtraro
    , @Thomasina
  54. @John Johnson

    > “…the most baseless belief is that removing religion and especially Christianity will somehow improve the West politically.”

    A religion as a framework of society cannot be removed by definition. A political movement necessarily presupposes a leap of faith in the correctness of a certain solution. Being anti-religious is merely a shorthand for something else – Soviet anti-clericalism, or mere liberal hubris and exceptionalism. Don’t Christians without a shadow of a joke proclaim their ideology as not man-made? Even though we clearly have no aliens around? The same chosenite nonsense.

    > “What we call Christianity certainly has Jewish origins but history has shown that it can bend to the will of the natural hierarchy which the left of course has suppressed.”

    All the left countries – the USSR, China, DPR Korea – have had rigid Party hierarchy, omnipresent military, universal education. Anarchy and chaos are the fate of America – the most Christian and right-wing capitalist nation on the planet.

    > “Constantine was well aware its utility and helped forge a religion for his empire that Jews have long considered blasphemous…”

    Christianity: 1) catapulted the Jews into the central ethnos of the world; 2) created Islam (otherwise, Abraham’s kinship would have been of no note to the Arabs).

    > “…the data is very clear and consistent in that when Whites leave Christianity most go to the competing religion which is liberalism.”

    This is not atheism’s problem that their apostasy is not complete. Liberalism is literally distilled Christian love minus Jesus. Yes, the bubble is large, far larger than the superstitious nonsense of the rigid Church. It only means that liberals are more dishonest and zealous Christians in effect. Liberals are a next step in the Christian cultural evolution. Not a different genus, which an atheistic religion would be – such as Juche in Korea or Hitlerism in Germany.

    > “Detractors will point out that in theory it does not have to be this way. But that is the world we live in and as I said the data is very consistent. Very few Whites can think outside liberalism once they have decided to leave Christianity.”

    That’s the entire issue with the Aryan race – it’s dying. You cannot omit the central problem of the matter. A solution would look like “How do we make Aryans leave Jew-based idealism?”, not “How do we bring back the less idealist Judaism?” An implementation would range from an insurrection, separation to founding a cult akin to Mormonism and marching through the institutions.

    > “I would also add that Christian tithe is voluntary while we are forced to fund liberalism by threat of imprisonment.”

    因为教会失去了权力。

    • 回复: @FatR
    , @Theone
    , @Incitatus
  55. Very timely. Cancel Jesus. This crackpot will make a lot of money.

  56. Who does the writer think he is kidding? The article purports to be serious, but is obviously just a thin excuse to selectively quote from a period of over two thousand years out of context hateful quotes about Jews. This type of anti-social behaviour is more commonly seen in playground bullies. Ordinary people are repulsed by it. A fact that the writer will no doubt also blame on those terrible Jews.

  57. gotmituns 说:

    I’m of Northern European stock. Something about Catholicism never sat well with me. Maybe it’s the fact my ancestors had to be tricked and forced into accepting the Jewish god. Finally, I know that the spirit of God walks with and resides in every man just as my ancestors knew.

    • 同意: Lucy Lipinska
    • 回复: @Jake
  58. Thank you for your review of Skrbina’s book, Dr MacDonald.

    Among the many points raised by him, you and commentators I agreed with no. 4 “g8way” above. Skrbina might almost be Jewish … Frankfurt School ? …
    A similar “cheap shot” method is used against Islam and can be used to deconstruct anything; Jewish “corporate raiders” used it to break up and sell off US industry piecemeal with the full approval of their Wall St peers and the US govt …

    “We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers … ” (Maurice Samuels).

    In Christian Identity (among others) there is certainty that today’s so-called churches are not Christian. “Churchianity” is basically a judaic heresy and abomination, a multiracial “whited sepulcher” that worships antichrist misnamed “Israel”.
    Orthodox (= “correct belief”) has resisted the gross corruption of the west, after directly experiencing Jewish hatred of Christianity.

    The gross moral corruption of the west correlates with the almost extinction of Christianity. The main vehicle for this has been “christian” America.

    The idea that Christianity is Jewish is not true, as western history up to ~ 1900 shows.

  59. FYI recent interpretations of The Gospel According to Marks predict that Jesus will return to earth, in the mid-1800s, in the form of a bearded German philosopher – establishing the world’s first true religion – Leninism.

    According to this latest scholarship we should now pray to the Progressive Holy Trinity; Marx (the Father), Lenin (the Son), and the Communist Party (the Holy Ghost) that one day soon we will be re-educated enough to bear the title ‘new humans’, having conquered our degenerate capitalistic instincts and be found worthy enough to live in a perfect futuristic communist society, possibly in downtown Baltimore, or Venezuela.

    “For Marx so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Manifesto, that whosoever believeth in it should not perish, but be purged at the end of his usefulness.”

    好样的!!

  60. FatR 说:
    @Adûnâi

    这就是Aryan种族的整个问题–快要死了。 您不能忽略此问题的核心问题。 一个解决方案看起来像是“我们如何让Aryans离开基于犹太人的理想主义?”,而不是“我们如何使不那么理想主义的犹太主义带回来?”

    解决您问题的唯一方法是基督教。 生育率高于替代率的雅利安人种的唯一社会群体是顽固的基督教派或异端基督教派。 或至少对于您可能会认识为Aryan的人来说确实如此(波斯人,普希图人和许多其他伊斯兰团体实际上比您要白得多)。 为避免雅利安人种族灭绝而不是基督教而提出的一切建议,都是左翼社会实验的另一个分支(这将完全奏效) Free Introduction 时间!)或纯净,纯净的白日梦。

    同样,打击犹太人的权力也是如此。 犹太人在上个世纪左右统治着西方知识,经济和政治生活的全部原因是他们仍然坚定地信仰宗教,即使表面上似乎只会造成问题(例如维持“非生产性”超正统社区),而基督教在外面上述原教旨主义者团体沦为空壳,对政治生活没有影响。 简单如。 这个结论甚至不需要相信YHWH。 您只需要观察人类历史的基本模式,即可看到信仰所产生的凝聚力可提供哪些优势。

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
    , @FvS
  61. Jewish God is Nazi, Christian God is democrat.

    • 哈哈: Levtraro
  62. Levtraro 说:
    @John Johnson

    Anyone that thinks atheists are not religious is free to go to a secular humanist meet up and politely ask how all races would end up with the same traits even though they were separated for over 50k years […] Is it by mere chance that secularism so quickly rallies around attacks on Christianity but defends Islam? Something stinks about this contradiction.

    Bollocks! I don’t know what seminars you’ve attended by in my circle of atheists we despise all religions almost equally and we consider that the most laughable are Judaism and Islam. We actually like Christianity a bit more because it is so very tame and inconsequential, although we don’t like that christians want us to accept all the blacks and browns that get washed up on our shores.

  63. 我们的主人应该崇拜大自然和真菌妈妈,因为他们赐予他们圣言。
    如果没有道,也许会更具挑战性?

    光学太棒了,佩洛西值得奥斯卡奖的表演令人难忘,与弗洛伊德先生的灵魂交流,据说是安慰,温暖和模糊。 在许多被灌输思想的人眼中,她显得很真诚。
    值得庆幸的是,他们现在拥有所有主要的征服、奴役、恐吓和统治的武器、工具和工具。

    人类总是占上风,耶稣相信宇宙。
    怪物没有设法抹去那个基因,它仍然存在于人类身上。

  64. Realist 说:

    The Jesus Hoax attempts to convince the reader that there is no rational basis for Christianity and that the motivation for its main originator, St. Paul, was antagonism toward the Roman Empire.

    There is no rational basis for any religion.

    • 回复: @europeasant
  65. Blissex 说:

    «a thin excuse to selectively quote from a period of over two thousand years out of context hateful quotes about Jews.»

    It is rather worse than that, because it conflates some jews and some variants of judaism with “the jews”, which is like conflating the Khmer Rouge with “the asians” or the Hutus with “the africans”.
    Some jews have been awful people, and some fanatical variants of judaism, in particular of talmudic judaism and of contemporary Likud etc. far-right politics, are based on hateful ideologies, but that has happened countless times before in history to all sorts of cultures and faiths. Yeshua ben Yussuf was a learned jew theologian, and his early followers covered a wide spectrum of jews, from nearly illiterate Simon to rich and sophisticated Joseph.

    Any talk about “the jews” as a single category or cabal is not just radically wrong, whether done by some jews (people like Netanyahu) or by some others, it is also disgustingly wrong.

    As to the pauline vs. original christianity, that is not a new idea, and many authors have pointed out the many detaiol differences between the original christian community of Jerusalem and that of Paul, even if there were still many shared points. There is even an interesting thesis by an Oxford historian that both were still typical jewish style sect, of which there were many, and it changed character when it was endorsed and adopted by the upper classes, becoming an organized cult.

    The really enormous impact of christianity, and the difference from most other variants of judaism and other “ancient” religions, is that it involved a switch from sacrificing others to bribe deities, that is scapegoatism, to sacrificing oneself to gain the deity’s forgiveness, plus the concept of a deity that is benevolent and wishes for the improvement of human beings (and in these aspects it is somewhat similar to buddhism and very few other religions). Forgiveness and redemption, and the faith in the slow perfectibility of humans, are the core and most revolutionary concepts of christianity.

    My impression is that religions evolved be first attributing metaphysical impersonations to natural phenomena, than generalized them in to the one with the most impact, the weather/the sky, and finally abstracted even that into turning the idea of time/eternity into the supreme deity, and taken to its logical conclusion that becomes the theology that across time and eternity human being can improve themselves by purity, rather than trying to bribe the metaphysical impersonations of natural phenomena to give them unfair advantages. So for example the very christian notion of grace seems to me the abstraction of the idea that time/eternity gives the opportunity for forgiveness, redemption, and to remove other impurities from oneself,

    • 回复: @Kali
  66. Levtraro 说:
    @J. Alfred Powell

    Foremost, [Christianity] opposes the Hebrew “ethics” of retribution (“an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth”) with an ethics based on forgiveness, healing, compassion, mutual understanding, consensus, and it opposes the Hebrew emphasis on exclusivity and formalized rectitude with a humanitarian sense of the equality of all souls. In Jesus’s view humanity is not divided into Chosen and Goyim.

    Right, that’s why Christianity in all her forgiveness and compassion wants us to accept all those blacks and browns, mostly muslims, coming to our secular white societies. The jews want to keep their land clean while the christians, a movement created by jews, want us to take all those black and browns in our secular white societies. Mmh.

    • 同意: TKK
    • 回复: @J. Alfred Powell
  67. @Rogue

    You’ve misread Romans.

    A remnant of jews have already been saved.

    Israel does not have the right to exist. The jews are in rebellion against God. God divorced them.

    It’s not like they accepted Christ and got their promised land. That’s not what happened.

    Both Steve Anderson and Chuck Baldwin have excellent teachings on this topic. Anderson teaching on Romans is brilliant, and he takes it line by line, totally gutting Christian Zionism.

    • 回复: @Rogue
    , @anonymous
  68. Jake 说:
    @g8way

    “Skrbina’s premise that Paul invented Christianity” has been a standard Jewish canard from no later than the early 2nd century AD.

    Even after the 2nd Jewish Revolt against Rome, Jews were able to wriggle into inner circles of Roman power, especially inn the provinces where large numbers of Jews lived. And they always revealed that they were acting to harm Christianity and Christians. Jews not only do not fear Mohammedanism in any sense, but they have easily manipulated it and its rulers since the desert pirate Mohammed turned his raiding and pillaging toward the service of Allah. Jews backed the Reformation from its first days. Jews always back atheists and their movements, even atheist Jews. Jews can religiously become Mohammedan or pagan or Buddhist or Sikh or Unitarian-Universalist or Scientologist, etc. and still be accounted Jews by the Rabbis.

    The only thing that makes Jews fearful is the possibility that historic Christianity and Christendom can be revived fully.

    Until Kevin McDonald gets on board, all he does is just pissing in the wind.

    • 同意: Seraphim
    • 回复: @anonymous
  69. Fenrir 说:

    Christ was crucified at Constantinople, and not 2.000 years ago, but much more recently in time.

    The new radical chronology of history:

    https://stolenhistory.net/threads/new-radical-chronology-of-history.3767/

    https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.720

    Great Britain’s greatest historian, Edwin Johnson proves that no one in Europe or England knew anything about the pauline epistles or about the gospels, before 1.500 AD:

    http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm

    New chronology of history (Fomenko’s timeline): nothing is known prior to 800 AD, history starts in 1000 AD.

    New radical chronology of history (my timeline): history begins with the total solar eclipse of 1643 AD (march 20, 1643), the great flood occurs some 60 years later, California becomes part of the continent in 1769 AD, Christ is cruficied/resurrected in the period 1760-1765 AD, the falsification of history and science starts in 1780 AD.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  70. Realist 说:
    @Adûnâi

    For isn’t it correct that most folks are incredibly stupid, uninquisitive and conformist?

    Yes, religion is a crutch for believers and a tool of sovereignty for the protagonist.

  71. Jake 说:
    @gotmituns

    Jews love Germanic atheists and pagans almost as if they were half Jews either knowingly or ignorantly serving Jewish interests.

    • 回复: @Alexandros
    , @Anon
  72. “As an Eastern Orthodox Christian with strong Miaphysite sympathies, this whole thing is just silly, and predicated on a western understanding of Christianity that we see as clearly divergent.”

    我不知道你从哪里得到你对基督教信仰和实践的理解,但你的评论并不反映我熟悉的东方或西方的任何基督教伦理。 但这些争论并不新鲜,或者至少它们中的大多数并不新鲜,尽管它们被配置在各种修辞上。

    Here’s the most glaring problem, the New Testament is not authored by the Apostle Paul, alone. In fact, Paul s a late comer to the faith and he never makes war on Roman Authority. In fact, when arrested he lays claim to his rights as a roman citizen, sheltering his faith by calling on Roman law guarantees. What else does Paul say, that christians should live at peace with nonbelivers, and obey the authorities established by God, except when the same calls one to disobey Christ. There’s no call to make war on Jews, in fact, Paul’s admonition is to extend aid to the Jews in need.

    -

    You make reference to the severe critique of Christ, but extend that critique to Jews in general, when in fact the most severe is leveled at the responsible jewish leadership, not Jews in general, except when it comes to the fault of christ’s prosecution.

    -

    As for the usual hopscotching about scripture ignoring context and dissecting bits and pieces from every conceivable reference — and making claims about lies, without ever demonstrating the lie is old hat.

    信仰的全球视角是精神的,而不是国家的或政治的。

    你把基督徒的失败误认为是圣经本身的失败。 多层次分类区分的谬误。 但这里的论点类似于说,法律是谎言,因为人们违反了法律。 这是非常特殊的逻辑或缺乏逻辑。 好像不公正的行为使正义本身的禁止和目标成为谎言。

    笑。

    真是的

    Having obliterated so many foundational frames upon which you build the case — it’s safe o say the case fails.

    • 回复: @Proud_Srbin
  73. Alfred 说:
    @Alden

    What was the Roman law Jesus violated?

    Jesus was judged guilty by the Jewish priests. The Romans just carried out the appropriate punishment.

  74. Within this framework, Paul was a Jewish nationalist whose goal was to recruit non-Jews to oppose the Roman imperium….

    Well, that would indeed explain why the polytheistic and relatively religion-tolerant Romans would persecute the early Christians.

    Jews were increasingly entering the imperial and municipal service in the 4th century ….

    Coincidentally the time the Empire was being hollowed out by debasement of the currency and the mass importation of foreign labour to do the work Romans weren’t doing.

  75. Alexandros 说:
    @Jake

    I feel my hatred for Catholics reaching almost the level I reserve for Jews when I read claims about “paganism”. Almost like I wish there was a Hell, so you could burn in it.

    • 回复: @FedUp
  76. @FatR

    >“雅利安人中唯一生育率高于替代人的社会群体是顽固的基督教或异端基督教派。” - 错误的。

    1.阿米什人禁止拥有武器,因此完全是寄生的,并取决于犹太人的制度。

    2. The Mormons literally have a passage that calls race-mixers to be killed on the spot – since the 1990s, they have been giving out their best Nordic women to the Negroes.

    3.天主教爱尔兰人和阿根廷天主教徒将鸡奸婚姻和堕胎合法化,而波兰天主教徒则不合法。

    > “(Persians, Pushtuns and a number of other Islamic groups are quite literally whiter than you)”

    我是小俄语。

    > “…is either another branch of Leftist social experimentation (that will totally work Free Introduction time!)”

    The Juche Koreans apparently did not get the memo – their brand of leftism has survived for 75 years, defeating the largest Christian superpower twice – in the 1950s and the 1990s. Leftism works. Just as our race once worked. In Russia, it was not Socialism that faltered – it was the weak, pathetic Christian Russian race. The same collective suicide as among Aryan Americans!

    > “The entire reason Jews dominate the Western intellectual, economic and political life for the last century or so is that they remain staunchly religious…”

    You’ve got to be kidding me. The Jews dominate the West because the stupid Christians had let them in! You Americans have even translated the Hebrew “goyim” into English – “Gentile”! And multiple times on this website has my nickname been called Jewish – apparently, you Protestant Americans hate school, but learn Hebrew with the milk of your mother.

    > “You have to only observe basic patterns of human history to see what wealth of advantages the cohesion created by faith provides.”

    I have specifically stated I support “religion” with the meaning of “political ideology”. Strong state propaganda. A unity of memes and genes. What I oppose is Aryans’ worshipping the god of the Jews and his message of universal love and Jewish exceptionalism.

    • 回复: @FatR
  77. TKK 说:
    @Trial by Wombat

    我所知道的所有其他宗教,从人类到神灵,都拥有相同的公共祭祀建筑,其主要目的是从神职人员中获利,并通过一个或多个神灵向国家提出服从。

    它使我着迷并反感西方MSM如何在当今的开斋节期间如此有效地向美国公众隐瞒了母牛和山羊的牺牲,使他们得以保留芝麻街版本的伊斯兰教。

    看到大男子主义的土耳其男子会刀刃呆滞,没有屠宰技能,就不会看到山羊,牛和羊的脖子,因为这些可怜的野兽实际上在痛苦中尖叫,摇晃和抽搐,这会使三个带有突触的人相信伊斯兰教是愚蠢的。

    沙漠哑巴。

    就像我经常说的那样,谈到9世纪沙漠的愚蠢现象,犹太人那些所谓的光辉,那些恶魔般的世界震动者,仍然让我逃脱了:

    他们表明一种自我吸收,一种自我荣耀,一种自恋,一种自负。 由宇宙的创造者选择,并被赋予统治权,对所有其他国家进行无情的残酷对待,是一种历史上前所未见的狂妄自大。”

    So, about those genius rumors……

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/30/dozens-of-dead-in-israel-pilgrimage-stampede-rescue-services

    • 回复: @anonymous
  78. @Sparkon

    If you are convinced you don’t believe in myths … then there is the myth you believe in.

    You’re not what you think of yourself.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  79. Rogue 说:
    @Robert Dolan

    I quite like Chuck Baldwin, but I think Anderson is a peculiar character.

    The latter says homosexuals should all go kill themselves, and that God has no interest in saving them. Along those lines anyway.

    Now, of course, homosexual behavior is clearly listed as sinful in both the OT and NT – but to single out homosexuals as being beyond redemption, as Anderson does – is absolutely not scriptural or Christian.

    With regard to Israel, I don’t wear rose-colored goggles as I used to do. The founding of the modern Zionist state was achieved with a considerable amount of violence – but the same could be said for so many other countries.

    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
  80. Mefobills 说:
    @GeeBee

    Having correctly noted that the (canonical) gospels were written long after Saul of Tarsus disappeared from the scene,

    Islam can be criticized as its events are not in chronological order. Only the “elect” (Imams) are privy to the inner workings of Islam.

    The foundational doctrine of supersession in Christianity is abrogated if the bible is not in chronological order.

    In other words, the edifice falls apart. The edifice is already under severe pressure from the Harvard study, popularized in Hudson’s book:

    https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/search?q=Forgive+us+our+debts&updated-max=2020-02-04T09:58:00-08:00&max-results=20&by-date=false

    To say that Michael Hudson’s new book And Forgive Them Their Debts: Lending, Foreclosure, and Redemption from Bronze Age Finance to the Jubilee Year (ISLET 2018) is profound is an understatement on the order of saying that the Mariana Trench is deep. To grasp his central argument is so alien to our modern way of thinking about civilization and barbarism that Hudson quite matter-of-factly agreed with me that the book is, to the extent that it will be understood, “earth-shattering” in both intent and effect. Over the past three decades, gleaned (under the auspices of Harvard’s Peabody Museum) and then synthesized the scholarship of American and British and French and German and Soviet assyriologists (spelled with a lower-case ato denote collectively all who study the various civilizations of ancient Mesopotamia, which include Sumer, the Akkadian Empire, Ebla, Babylonia, et al., as well as Assyria with a capital A). Hudson demonstrates that we, twenty-first century globalists, have been morally blinded by a dark legacy of some twenty-eight centuries of decontextualized history. This has left us, for all practical purposes, utterly ignorant of the corrective civilizational model that is needed to save ourselves from tottering into bleak neo-feudal barbarism.

    Christianity is due some serious revision, and is under pressure. Christian scholars should take heed, and begin the reform process now.

    Seen in the context of the Peabody study, Jesus’ mission is very relevant to today, while modern Christianity has morphed and been made irrelevant.

    • 同意: GeeBee
  81. @EliteCommInc.

    Madeleine Jana Korbel Albright 通过将 500 万儿童从未经批准的宗教中灭绝合理化,大声而明确地定义/证明了西方价值观。
    认罪是正当实施暴行的好工具,它们甚至可以帮助归国战犯应对创伤后应激障碍?
    其他宗教企业可否考虑实施类似的工具收割留魂?

  82. Smith 说:

    Arguing about this religious nonsense pretty much makes as much as sense as talking about football.

    Religion is worthless if you don’t have state power.

  83. Sparkon 说:
    @Frank frank

    That’s another circular argument.

    You and anyone else here may try again to submit a myth in which you think I have belief, so go ahead on, but be prepared to have your suggestion shot down in flames.

    I do not subscribe to, believe in, or promote any myths, especially religion.

    You’re not what you think of yourself.

    First, know thyself, but don’t expect to know me.

    • 回复: @Zarathustra
  84. Leo Den 说:

    圣经中没有犹太人这个词。 这是犹大支派中的JUDAHITE这个词。 因此,总是把今天属于不同​​种族的犹太人与圣经中的犹大人混为一谈。

    https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/the-word-jew-is-not-in-the-bible/

    的确,今天的犹太人converted依的是法利赛主义,与旧法利赛人信仰相同,但他们不像犹大人那样。

    https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/judaica/judaism-or-pharisaism/

  85. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Incorrect, I’m afraid. The abolitionists were predominantly Unitarians (like the Unitarian “minister” to whom Burke wrote his Reflections on the Revolution in France). Lincoln was an atheist, and invaded the South primarily to secure tariff revenues for his railroad and banking clients in NYC. I guess your doctorate is not in history.

  86. The word “Jew” is a recent abbreviation of the word Judean. Many Judeans became Talmudists which both Jesus and Paul condemned. The Talmudist faction wanted to kill both Paul and Jesus. The Talmudists faction are both Zionists and non Zionists. The abbreviation “Jew” should no longer be used as “Judea” is not a country and most “Jews” were not born there. The better identification is Talmudist. Jesus was and is not God, but the SON of God. Jesus was and is a MAN as scripture clearly indicates. It was the pagan emperor Theodosius who forced the trinity heresy on the world by law and force.

    • 回复: @Zarathustra
  87. Anon[362]• 免责声明 说:
    @Jake

    I’m going to name the Jew; that’s you, Jake. Christians officially identify as The Circumcision. “We are the circumcision,” states Philippians 3:3. Who else calls themselves The Circumcision but Jews?

    Revelation 7 states the Christian heaven will be occupied exclusively by “The Tribe.” Who is The Tribe, Jake? Again, I’ll name the Jew.

    Luke states that Rabbi Jesus is the Kang of Zion. John states that he’s the Kang of Israel. Who else is fervently loyal to the Kang of the foreign capital city Zion in the foreign country Israel but a outright Jew, Jake?

    Jake, you’ve taken the ticket, accepting a “hundredfold” bribe offered by Rabbi Jewsus in Matthew 19:29 to betray and “forsake” your own hearth and kin. Thus, you brazenly display your contempt for folks of your own country, pagans. That’s all pagan means is “country folk,” look it up; it’s synonymous with the pejorative term Goyim/Gentile. It’s not surprising to see your contempt for native Whites, since your a Jew through and through.

  88. @Sparkon

    I can clear it up for you. Here it is: You are moron.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  89. Alden 说:
    @Alfred

    My question; what was the law? The law he violated?

    • 回复: @Alfred
  90. @Dennis Gannon

    But you cannot be certain. Maybe Jesus was role playing. (That is actually my opinion.)

  91. @Rogue

    Anderson might seem to be harsh…but only because our society has become so permissive.

    We tolerate that which should not be tolerated.

    I think gay marriage is crazy. I think that gay adoption is wicked.

    The slippery slope is real. Our people have been conditioned to accept ANYTHING at this point…..wear the mask…..take the jab…..stay home…..ruin your business…..BLM is peaceful….keep your mouth shut…..white people are evil…..vote for the tranny for governor…..

    It’s bizarre…..ridiculous…..insane.

  92. Agent76 说:

    19 年 2016 月 XNUMX 日 激进的无神论者……皈依基督教

    必须向无神论者证明上帝的存在,就像必须在晴朗的中午证明太阳的存在一样。 然而,数百万人正在接受无神论的愚蠢。 “无神论者的妄想”拉开了帷幕,揭示了那些否认显而易见的人的想法。 它向您介绍了许多无神论者,您将跟随他们前往证据引导的地方,找到路障,并进入电影中很少见的诚实之地。

    “当基督死时,他为你个人而死,就像你是世界上唯一的人一样。” CS刘易斯

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @Laurent Guyénot
  93. FatR 说:
    @Adûnâi

    >“雅利安人中唯一生育率高于替代人的社会群体是顽固的基督教或异端基督教派。” - 错误的。

    从您立即进行废话切线的事实来看,您 知道 这是真的。

    我是小俄语。

    您将永远不会成为Aryan。 哦,不用担心,从基因上讲,您可能比普通的Yank更像Aryan,只是没有人会为在盎格鲁圈争夺Aryan种族而战。 曾经 看到你是白人。 他们只是在承受最大压力的情况下勉强接受爱尔兰和波兰人是白人,而您却在他们之下迈出了一步。

    犹太人的朝鲜人显然没有得到这份备忘录-他们的左派品牌已经生存了75年,在1950年代和1990年代两次击败了最大的基督教超级大国。 左翼主义行之有效。

    轻骑兵韩国人没有繁殖。 即使您相信他们的官方统计数据-并且做到这一点,您必须完全受阻-他们充其量只能做到比韩国人更难复制。 根据您自己的标准,左派是行不通的。

    就像“击败最大的基督教超级大国两次”一样,用拳头吃药,这样您就可以流连忘返。

    我想请您从最愚蠢的修辞角度出发(实际上没有人想住在最好的韩国,而在我们讨论的主要受众美国人中,只有无用的洋娃娃才能与外国人在自己的国家大喊大叫) ,但恐怕将毫无用处。

    那是软弱,可怜的基督教俄国人。

    对于俄罗斯人来说,在可预见的将来,您将成为一文不值的土耳其笨蛋(和“ shabbos goy”的白金标准)。 恐怕您对雅利安(Aryan)种族的征战将是一件很寂寞的事。

    你在开玩笑吧。 犹太人统治西方,因为愚蠢的基督徒让他们进入了!

    在罗马帝国Empire依基督教之时,他们如何“让”已经在所有省份中占相当比例人口的人“放任”? (由于犹太人比异教徒/世俗化的罗马人更活跃地繁殖,而后者从八达维亚时代开始就面临人口问题)。

    我已经明确地说过,我支持“宗教”和“政治意识形态”的含义。

    然后,您将赤手空拳地进行战斗,而又缺乏情报,无法意识到对方将要使用的枪支实际上可以做什么。

    • 回复: @FvS
    , @commandor
  94. Alden 说:
    @anon

    Isn’t drug dealer criminal Matthew Shepherd killed by other drug dealers because he cheated them in a business deal also enshrined in the national cathedral?

    I can see Rosa Parks because DC is a black city and majority religion is black Protestants, but a criminal drug dealer killed by other criminal drug dealers?

  95. @follyofwar

    I find Thomas Dalton’s article (published on National Vanguard.org) the most convincing one – as to the origin of Christianity – I have read since I came of age in 1968. (I was born and raised Catholic.)

    • 回复: @Siegfriedson
    , @Anon
  96. anonymous[251]• 免责声明 说:

    Yes, I agree with this argument that St. Paul, the former Jewish Pharisee Rabbi Saul of Tarsus was the deliberate founder of the religious cult of Judeo Christianity, which served to undermine the White Roman Gentile world. St. Paul’s cult is virtually identical to the cults of Karl Marx, Trotsky and all the other International Jewish Communists and surprisingly Jewish financiers like Jacob Schiff and now George Soros.

    All proclaim to be working for a utopian world order of universal equality, peace and harmony where as St. Paul said:

    “Where there are no divisions between Greeks (Gentiles) and Jews, men and women, free and slave – just those who have accepted Jesus as the true savior and Judeo Christianity as the one true religion of peace and justice”.

    Nietzsche noticed this and stated as fact that the ethnic Jew St. Paul/Rabbi Saul of Tarsus was lying and telling this nonsense to White Gentile Greeks and Romans and underneath the Talmudic Judaism that Jews were the Chosen People of God was always there.

    The best source of the best minds “noticing” bad actions about various forms of Jews is Grimstad’s Anti Zion – it’s online at something called the The Colchester Collection

  97. Wagner’sViola: “The abolitionists were predominantly Unitarians …”

    And Unitarians aren’t “real” Christians, right? LOL.

    People who use this type of argument are typically imbeciles, and I can see you’re no exception.

    Further, fighting the war and granting negroes US citizenship and vote was done by white, Christian America at large, not just by Unitarians.

    Wagner’sViola: “Lincoln was an atheist …”

    Your empty assertion is contradicted by his many references to the Christian God.

    • 回复: @Wagner’sViola
  98. @Alfred

    It had to be done that way because there scepter (authority) had left Juda just as Jacob predicted.

    That Juda (Jews) would lose authority owing to their sins can be read in Num 1, 27; 16:27 in Deut 33;7, in Josue 15, and in Judges 1, 1.

    The Jews had to trick The Romans (Pilate) into acting on their behalf because they did not have the authority to do as they desired- to kill Jesus Christ

    • 回复: @Alden
  99. @GeeBee

    “Having correctly noted that the (canonical) gospels were written long after Saul of Tarsus disappeared from the scene ”

    Weird. You say the Gospels were written long after Titus destroyed Jerusalem but the evangelists just ignored that fact and kept writing as though Jerusalem still existed and Saul/Paul did the same.

    Yes, quite convincing these novel histories. There is no CE.

    There is Anno Domini 2021 and BC, Before Christ. The BCE and CE is an affectation you derived from atheists and other lunatics

    • 回复: @GeeBee
  100. Yukon Jack 说:

    耶稣十二岁

    当他十二岁的时候,他们照例参加了逾越节……。三天后,他们在庙里找到了他,坐在老师中间,听着他们的提问。 所有听到他的人都对他的理解和回答感到惊讶。

    约瑟夫十四岁

    我非常擅长提高学习水平,并且似乎既有很好的记忆力,也有很好的理解力。 而且,当我还是个十四岁的孩子的时候,我因必须学习的爱而受到所有人的称赞。 为了了解我对正确理解法律要点的看法,经常有大批祭司和城市的主要官员来找我。

    [更多]

    耶稣 是一个字谜 JOSEPHUS

    The central thesis of Caesar’s Messiah is that the Gospels of the Bible were written — and the character of Jesus Christ was created — by Roman intellectuals under the direction of Caesar Titus Flavius primarily with the intention of domesticating the Messianic Jewish movements which were resisting Roman occupation of Judea in the First Century, and secondarily with the intention of subverting the Jewish faith such that observants would be unknowingly worshipping Titus Flavius as a god …

    http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/

  101. @Alfred

    是的。
    Specifically the Jewish priests accused Jesus of making himself a King.
    In the biblical narrative —
    They said to Pontius Pilate, then Roman Governor of Judaea,

    ” The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.” (John 19 v 7 KJV)

    Subsequently ” And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.” (v 12)

    And ” Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.” (v 15)

    “We have no king but Caesar” was a (somewhat hypocritical) show of loyalty to Caesar by Jewish leaders, while v 12 was a veiled threat to Pilate who, as Governor, had the power of life or death to carry out their wishes to execute Jesus by crucifixion.

    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-Chapter-19/

    • 谢谢: Agent76
  102. Corvinus 说:

    “The Jesus Hoax attempts to convince the reader that there is no rational basis for Christianity”

    It’s a theory, that’s all.

    “And it can scarcely be doubted that Catholicism and mainline Protestantism have been completely corrupted and actively subverted so that millions of White Americans have been swept up by the multiculturalism and replacement-level immigration as moral imperative”

    It can assuredly be doubted.

    “成为美国的好公民,学习该国的语言是每个穆罕默德人的神圣和宗教义务,没有它们,我们就无法正确地相互理解,”该地区第一位阿am穆夫蒂·穆罕默德·萨迪克博士第一座清真寺于1921年告诉底特律新闻。

    的箴言6:16-19

    主讨厌六件事,七件事令他憎恶:傲慢的眼睛,说谎的舌头,流着无辜鲜血的手,精心策划邪恶计划的内心,匆忙奔向邪恶的脚,虚假的见证撒谎的人,撒下兄弟间不和的人。

    人们以不同的原因看不起别人。 这可能与他们的学历,成就,服从……或其背景有关! 骄傲有许多不同的面孔:有些人“比你高”,而另一些人“比你高”。 一个人为如此出色的阅读而感到自豪,而另一个人则说:“我的书本并不聪明; 我很聪明”; 一个人以时髦为荣,而另一个人以忘却时尚为荣。 骄傲是一种阴险,无所不在的事情,特别是与人的白,黑或红有关的情况。

    John 4:1-42

    耶稣打破了社会和宗教习俗,以尊重撒玛利亚妇人的尊严。 他在公共场合与一个混血儿,道德和社会局外人有联系,并要求她喝水。 他表现出最高程度的尊严,每个人都是宝贵的。

    上帝命令他的门徒爱全人类。 当上帝与自己沟通时,当他使我们充满自己时,他就使我们充满了神圣的生命,充满了无限的爱,因为他就是爱。 他确认我们必须分享这种神圣的本性,以使上帝吸引我们自己,因为分享他的恩典才是他的本性。

    每个人的自然尊严都是平等的。 在这方面,人类并不优劣。 而且,上帝以祂的形像创造了我们。 作为上帝的儿女,我们被基督救赎了,并见证了祂神圣的召唤和命运,无论一个人在这个地球上的身分和身分如何。 否认这些真理就是否认上帝的权威。 上帝已将祂的子民确定为那些恪守祂的方式,人类的兄弟情谊的人。 上帝在他的旗帜下统一了人类。

    从一开始,这个教会就以其多样性为标志,这既来自上帝的恩赐,也来自接受恩赐的人的多样性。 在上帝子民的统一中,多种民族和文化聚集在一起。 在教会的成员中,有不同的恩赐,职分,条件和生活方式。 这种多样性的巨大丰富性并不反对教会的团结。 然而,罪及其后果的负担不断威胁着团结的恩赐。 因此,使徒必须劝诫基督徒“在和平的结合中保持圣灵的统一”。

    The Bible teaches us us that God created every race equally in his image, and he loves every race equally. That is, there is a CHRISTIAN identity, one that trumps race. The Bible says, “From one man he made all the nations. We are God’s offspring” (Acts 17:26, 29).

    Perhaps one of the fine posters on this opinion webzine would indulge in dialectic conversation.

    1)您是否同意或不同意那些基督徒认为欧洲人是“选择的民族,而犹太人是该隐的诅咒后代”,即“蛇混血”(一种被称为两线制教义)?” 为什么?

    2)您对韦斯利·A·斯威夫特(Wesley A. Swift)的学说(他是耶稣基督基督教会的创始人)有何看法,即非高加索民族没有灵魂,因此永远无法赢得上帝的恩宠或得救?

    3)考虑到基督教的推动力是走向普遍主义,从宗教立场上如何证明“种族现实主义”是合理的? 为了明确起见,基督教普遍主义是指“围绕神和解学说的基督教神学流派,即所有人类最终将得到拯救并恢复与上帝的正确关系的观点”。

  103. rgl 说:

    Here we are, still fighting religious wars, and remain separated by religion. Religions are cults.

    21st century much?

    • 同意: CelestiaQuesta
  104. Von Rho 说:

    The world of American scholars is limited to the Anglosphere. In continental culture, more people know about what was written in this article. Even Comte, who devoted a month of his calendar to Paul (the epithet “Saint” in the title of this article shows Irish-American bigotism), knowing that he was the true founder of the religion, with Crist being a myth.

  105. Sparkon 说:
    @Zarathustra

    T他的锅把茶杯叫黑了。

  106. Alfred 说:
    @Alden

    Blasphemy, I believe. I am sure there are different versions.

    • 回复: @Old Brown Fool
  107. Papa 说:
    @Sparkon

    我的观点是,人类永远不会在古代童话的磨石下前进。

    Advance in to what? Further nihilism?
    The Faustian West is so infected with rationalism that it’s “rationalized” itself to a soulless husk of biomachinery unable to even abstract anything transcendent.

    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
  108. @Papa

    When I look around I do not see anything rational at all. Back when we were rational we led the world in scientific achievement.

    I agree that the west has lost its’ spiritual moorings, but the flight isn’t to rationalism but to marxist fantasy and delusion.

    Cultural marxism/ political correctness promotes a totally irrational world devoid of logic and reason and common sense.

    There is nothing rational about a child claiming that he identifies as a girl so they give him female hormones and chop his dick off.

    We are now in the realm of off the charts jewing, levels of jewing never seen before. They are obviously testing the white race to see just how much shit we are willing to take.

    • 回复: @Papa
  109. Z-man 说:

    一位非信徒麦克唐纳在另一位非信徒斯克比纳的论文中留下漏洞。 很好,但这里没什么可看的。

    • 同意: Crescent Moon
  110. anon[148]• 免责声明 说:

    Why waste time on stuff like this? You either believe in a higher being or not.
    We are a little speck on the universe, and the truth is we don’t know.
    I believe, but I also believe our creator made it impossible for us to know; this is why the only challenge that humanity has is to choose between good and evil, and if you can’t figure that out,
    that’s too bad.

  111. 我不去教堂,我觉得我去过的教堂有问题。
    我自己做家庭教会。
    但我选择相信,我觉得我是对的。
    有没有注意到信徒似乎散发出光明和喜乐?
    是的……他们肯定会。
    我也是过去 50 多年的占星家,所以我知道现在几点了。
    我预言了世界大战,我的目标日期是 12 年前的 2020 年 3 月 XNUMX 日。
    我还预测特朗普在 2011 年的 16 日和 2017 年 XNUMX 月的美国大日食是基督教民族主义。 和brexit离开。
    人们对此笑了,我又是对的。
    嗯,我们正处于那个“时间”,你知道海王星在双鱼座的神盒中。

  112. Dumbo 说:

    无论如何,Skirbina 是什么名字? 听起来不是白色的。 什么工具。

    Is this the same guy that was on these pages anonymously denying the existence of the “First Millenium” and the “Roman Empire”?

    随时给我登月阴谋。

    • 回复: @Proud_Srbin
  113. DinoN 说:

    The Christian GOD is lucky that He is not an American, because He would have been executed or received a life sentence for killing his Son!

  114. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    What exactly is your doctorate in? And where is it from, Phoenix U? Because it’s not history, and it definitely didn’t teach you to think. You’re as idiotic as any shrieking teenage girl at a BLM hate-in, and know less about the 19th century history than any of those harridans.

  115. 她问您冒名顶替者“犹太人”拥有执行“耶稣”的具体权力

    你说过亵渎出于长期分析目的而引自 国家地理故事 关于为什么大祭司无权这样做:

    “那一刻,Caiaphas继承了他的姐夫伊利亚扎·本·阿纳努斯(Eleazar ben Ananus)的任期已达12年,他是安娜斯的五个儿子之一,成为大祭司。 Caiaphas面临困境。 没有Sanhedrin的全力支持,大祭司无法单枪匹马命令杀害一个人。 他唯一的选择是将整个问题移交给罗马地方政府。 这将是一个非常有争议的举动,因为在过去的几十年中,圣黑德林一直努力保持自己在家庭事务中的自主权,而没有受到罗马当局的任何干预。 另一个甚至更根本的问题是,耶稣只是在圣殿前院中扰乱了和平,甚至可能是亵渎神罪,但这两个都不值得罗马干预,更不用说死刑了。”

    [更多]

    因此彼拉多检查了耶稣,对耶稣很感兴趣,但并未因此而得罪他,并因妻子在梦中被告知要“独自离开那个男人”而得到支持,彼拉多接着告诉柔柔集会,我不会杀了他。 joo-joos对此大声疾呼:“如果您不杀死他,那么您就不是凯撒的朋友”。 因此,当彼拉多(Pilate)看到自己什么都没做,却爆发了骚乱时,他拿起水,在人群面前洗了手。 他说:“我对这个人的血是清白的。” “您承担责任。” 所有人回答说:他的血流在我们和我们的孩子身上!”

    这是什么意思? 冒名顶替者joo-joos是否因造成基督的死而受到诅咒? ……彼拉多相信耶稣是无辜的,没有犯过应受钉十字架的罪行。 如果这些joo-joos ,那恭喜你, 冒名顶替者,然后是来自原始以色列国家的人,他们已经“迷失”到历史,并在耶稣进入耶路撒冷并告诉这些困境前五百年被上帝驱散, 你是撒旦的儿子,他会尽力而为。”

    这就是为什么他告诉他的门徒, “去以色列迷失的羊群” ? 这就是为什么这些冒名顶替者今天想要杀死以色列民族的真正继承者,以色列比以色列人民更富有同情心,智慧,好奇心和美感?

    这就是为什么神的儿子告诉他的门徒:“最后,有了一个心爱的儿子,他差遣了他给他们。 他说,他们将尊重我的儿子。 但是房客们互相说: '这是继承人。 来吧,让我们杀死他,继承权就归我们所有。 “所以他们抓住了儿子,杀死了他,然后把他扔出了葡萄园。”

    “犹太人”不是希伯来人,而是冒名顶替的骗子,他们既拥有父亲撒旦的机智和狡猾,又居住在以色列领土上,并在真正的希伯来部落被占领和散布后占领了其身份。 眼前的假货涉及的斗争不仅与血肉有关,而且与天堂高处的属灵邪恶的原则和力量有关。 唤醒Unzmen,真的 is 比您的集体智慧大得多。

    • 同意: Spender_CGB
  116. Theone 说:
    @Adûnâi

    “Murrka…Right Wing” HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

  117. Paul was a Roman by birth; he was thrown out of the Jerusalem church run by Jesus’ cousins; he had never seen Jesus in person; and he taught about Christ, not Jesus – these are well known; but does it make him anti- Roman? He was a Hellenized Jew – and there are people still debating it is good or bad, so I will leave it alone – but he did not insist on circumcision for converting to his sect (was it already named Christianity? I don’t recall), which was very popular with Greeks, because without anesthesia and antibiotics, circumcision is the way to hell. He had no love lost with the Jerusalem church run by James the Just, and he was beaten up by Jews inside their temple. He had reasons to hate the Jewish followers of Jesus Christ (who have already divided into two – those who followed the cousins of Jesus, and those who followed the disciples of Jesus; there was just a superficial unity) – because they did not admit him to the inner councils, did not like his concept of Christ, and did not support his practice of converting Greeks and others without circumcision. He shows this in his epistles; but he was anti – Roman? It shows nowhere. It could be argued he hid so well because of the real threat it represented to his life – he was a Hebrew after all. BTW, I don’t think Paul ever called himself Jew.

    I read a theory somewhere that Paul was actually the Trojan horse of the Roman aristocracy to undermine the new millennial movement of followers of Jesus Christ, but I discounted it because, when Paul lived, Christians were (they were not yet called Christians) a fringe group of eccentric Jews, not worth the trouble of undermining it. Rather the Roman establishment had a good portion of the Jewish ruling class firmly in grip, Tetrarchs and all. They would have loved to undermine those groups which were preaching war against them; but the followers of Jesus were not so big as to undermine them.

    Jesus inspired two types of followers, apparently – Essenes and Nazarenes, who kept away from politics and violence, and Sicarii and others who were expecting the Kingdom of Heaven to appear shortly; the first group is represented by most of the Apostles, and the second group by the Church of Jerusalem and its leaders – James the Just and his successors. The second group was ready to rise in arms against Romans. But Paul was from neither side; he removed the elements of millennialism and Jesus’ inheritance of David’s crown; he added generous doses of Greek concepts – a god who sacrifices himself to save the world, the concept of Jesus’ sufferings absolved the followers of original sin, etc. The Jewish messiah was neither – he was supposed to lead armies against occupiers and win and rule, not expected to sacrifice himself or die. And Jewish idea of getting rid of sins is sacrificing lives at the altar, not death of a messiah. And the concept of Son of God is alien to the Jews. No wonder the preachings of Jerusalem church was popular only among the Jews and those of Paul were popular among Greeks and other non-Jews.

    Paul does not look like anti -Rome; he did not even criticize the Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus to a painful death. As for the historicity of Jesus, it is a very long story.

  118. Stogumber 说:

    In my young years I was deeply impressed by the book about Jesus writen by one Joel Carmichael. He proved with a lot of quotations that Jesus had been a Jewish revolutionary (a Zealot) and only Paul had falsified the narrative in order to create a new, Rome-friendly religion. (I was not convinced, but understood that the contradicting sources were unreliable, too, so I lost my faith completely.)
    Carmichael’s theory was at least clear and simple and not as unnecessarily complicated as Skribina’s. –

    Many years later I detected that Carmichael (born Joel Lipsky) was one of those Jews who adopted a fake British name which made them sound like members of the Anglo-Norman or Scottish highlander gentry.

    • 回复: @Wagner’sViola
    , @Z-man
  119. Hockamaw 说:
    @storxian

    很好的评论,谢谢。

  120. anonymous[312]• 免责声明 说:
    @Robert Dolan

    The Bible disagrees that Yahweh divorced the Jews, saying that Christians are instead “grafted” onto the rootstock of the Jewish tree or vine as another “branch” of Judaism. But stipulating your coping analogy as true, you’re still settling for sloppy seconds. Who would even consider accepting Jewish leftovers, except an Other worshiping cuckold? That’s just nasty.

    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
  121. @Dumbo

    无论如何,Skirbina 是什么名字? 听起来不是白色的。

    极有可能,某种野蛮人或上帝禁止 SubHuman/Untermensch?

    • 回复: @Dumbo
  122. @Alfred

    The blasphemy was the statement of Jesus about the Jewish second temple – he said that a time will come when not a stone would remain, and he can rebuild it in three days. It was never about his divinity. Pilate asked him if the charge is true – what charge? not the blasphemy charges but – the charge of crowning himself as the King of Judea. So, when the Sanhedrin tried to implicate him on charges of blasphemy, and failed, it turned to the Roman governor, and charged Jesus with treason against the Roman emperor (by crowning himself as King of Judea); this time the charge stuck because Jesus did not deny it. And instead of being killed by stoning, the Jewish punishment for blasphemy, he was condemned to die on cross, the Roman punishment for treason.

    • 回复: @The Soft Parade
  123. @Apex Predator

    The work of Phillip K Dick usually entails determining what is or is not real. The above article reviews a book that states Christianity was and is a golem religion used to further the aims of fanatical Jews. In other words, Christ’s divinity was never real.

  124. @Stogumber

    I read that book. Came out in the 1970s? I thought at the time it was just hippie bullshit (I was a teenager then). And I was right.

  125. Z-man 说:
    @Stogumber

    You got scammed by a Jew.
    I always try to find out who people are, to know where they’re coming from.
    It’s not too late, Jesus saves.

  126. Dumbo 说:
    @Proud_Srbin

    What? Serbian? I thought all Serbian names finished in “ic”?

    But there’s also Tesla, so I guess maybe not.

    Anyway, I sympathize somewhat with Serbians, contrary to the bad press they usually get, but they are as pozzed as anyone these days. Like the creators of “A Serbian movie”, one of the most disgusting things ever conceived, and I haven’t even watched it.

    • 回复: @Zarathustra
  127. 我从未见过学术上的争论,即天主教的制度化对帝国的衰落做出了重要贡献。

    我可以想到一个著名的尝试,那就是争辩说:爱德华·吉本(Edward Gibbon)的 罗马帝国的衰落。 但是,我怀疑大多数当代历史学家是否会认真对待他的论点。

  128. @Trial by Wombat

    从考古发现到人口遗传学的一切观点,我个人的看法都使我得出这样的结论:进入埃及的亚伯拉罕宗教与后来出现的宗教不同,指示性的误导是多种多样的-没有迹象表明例如,法利赛犹太教的前身甚至知道“希伯来语” /“哈比鲁”是什么。

    您所说的“人口遗传学”是指那些显示具有某些埃及王朝DNA的欧洲男人占主导地位的研究吗? 对于这个问题,可以看一下由艾默斯一世驱逐出埃及的希克索斯法老王朝的时间表,也就是约瑟夫死后崛起的国王,以及“谁不认识约瑟夫”(出埃及记1:8),于是减少了约瑟夫的统治权。人们沦为奴隶制。

    法老王是一个暂时的事物,这意味着法老王要么是遗传的后代,要么是被征服而创造的。 请注意,圣经说约瑟夫是先祖雅各布的最小儿子,被他的兄弟们卖给奴隶制,并最终成为法老王的第二指挥官,他给约瑟夫娶了一个妻子,即波提非拉的女儿阿森纳特。大庙的大祭司。 (创世记41:45)。 亚塞纳生了约瑟两个儿子,玛拿西和以法莲,在死之前,约瑟的父亲雅各布将他们两个儿子加入了部落的名字。

    我认为,基督教教义有一个中心真理,那就是,如果一个上帝希望获得绝对和不受挑战的全球忠诚,他就可以毫不费力地做到这一点。

    上帝确实是如何掩盖自己的足迹的。 这个世界的傻瓜说,他应该提供说服这个世界的傻瓜所必需的经验证据。 因此,我很高兴他没有。

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  129. GeeBee 说:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    atheists and other lunatics

    You’ve lost any argument you might wish to enter the moment you reveal your impoverished hand by resorting to 人格论证. Like most Christians, you are incapable of existing without your Jewish teddy bear in the sky, and you resort to the most vicious (and un-Christian) hissing and spitting at anything and anyone that threatens it. Your mind is closed, unlike my own, and yet you malign me as ‘a lunatic’ purely for not buying into your rigid religious mindset. How about Muslims? Jainists? Hindus? They are all all, in your closed mindset, ‘other lunatics’.

    You are sad and pathetic and I shan’t be rushing to read and absorb your comment history .

  130. In a world where (((Big))) control the vast majority of wealth, power and thought, the time has come to unveil a new messiah, one that embodies our connection to every star in the universe, every matter/anti matter particle in infinite space/time, every neuron of our imagination.
    Ancient messiah cults have failed humanity, they have disgraced the very essence of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Humanity has suffered enough and now it is time for a new proclamation that enshrines our rightful place in the universe and beyond.

  131. @Alfred

    There is evidence (inscriptions) that people writing an early form of Hebrew fought as mercenaries in Egypt around 1200 BC. This meshes with suggestions that Hebrew tribes were nomadic brigands in that era.

    • 回复: @James Forrestal
  132. @Lucy Lipinska

    Lucy, are you referring to the “Christianity: The Great Jewish Hoax” essay?

  133. I am a former Christian who believes that God exists; I suppose that makes me a deist. I also believed that Jesus existed and there were several admirable and noble characteristics about him. However, the religion that sprung up after his death needs to be consigned to the dust bin of history. Both William Luther Pierce and William Gayley Simpson were anti-Christian, and that fact coupled with my own doubts and observations was enough to ‘seal the deal’ and turn me into a deist.

  134. Anonymous[310]• 免责声明 说:

    Was there ANTIsemitism before the rise of Christianity? Is Christianity (Catholic) responsible for Antisemitism in non/Christian countries/areas/empires??? How can you be antisemetic and accept a religion that teaches you to wordship Jesus/jew since your birth? mind/spiritua/brain/ control?? Wasnt Paul opposed, antagonized, persecuted by the Rabbis (circumsicion?).? Paul was onto something much bigger than Jewish Nationalism…he saw the great oportunioty to judaize the Roman Empire and hence the wordl …he succeded ? Had jews embraced Christianity they would had ruled the world since Constantine times?…ALL religions are MYTHS..I dont buy that book were written by divine. inspiration??? prove it Rationally? IF there were a Religion based on Nature/reason…that would be my religion…Natura(reason)alization??? Uh may I could start a New religion…like Paul??? away from race, nationality, sexual ids, etc.

    • 回复: @J. Alfred Powell
  135. @Levtraro

    You prefer a creed of hate over a creed of love.

    But the jews of Israel are not intent on keeping “their land” (as you write). They are intent on keeping Palestinian land, seized by force, connivance, deceit, and terror. Which fits a creed of hate and vice versa.

  136. @Old Brown Fool

    在这里,您声称犹太人超出了以前职位的修订谬误

    ”指控耶稣叛逆罗马皇帝(称自己为犹太国王); 这次的指控是坚持的,因为耶稣没有否认这一点。”

    相反,他告诉彼拉多:“我的王国不是尘世的王国。 如果是这样,我的追随者们将竭力阻止我被移交给犹太人。 但是我的王国不属于这个世界。”
    https://biblehub.com/john/18-36.htm

    他没有否认。 对于这样的主张,他承诺否认您。

  137. @Yukon Jack

    There’s a fine line between clever and stupid.

  138. Adûnâi: “For isn’t it correct that most folks are incredibly stupid, uninquisitive and conformist?”

    You left out greedy and hypocritical.

    Adûnâi: “Even more, certain rules that might be constraining and arbitrary to a free thinker are in actuality wholesome and guiding to the populace at large?”

    Is a society built on lies worth living in? That’s one of the major questions posed by Aldous Huxley’s 美丽新世界. Are the people are like sheep, a flock that needs tending (the view of Plato, and William Pierce and Hitler), or are they straw dogs, something first to be accorded reverence, and then trampled underfoot, as in the Taoist metaphor? How a man answers these questions tells a lot about him.

    My view is that Christianity is a cancer that ought to be cut out; excised from the body politic. You don’t replace it with anything. You just let Nature take its course. Healthy tissue may grow back eventually.

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 回复: @Adûnâi
  139. @Dumbo

    ic or ec or ik or ek in Slavic languages signifies little one. Usually child.

    • 回复: @Dumbo
  140. @GeeBee

    My Creator, Redeemer, Lord and Saviour is no teddy bear and as for those who worship false gods, the bible teaches they are worshiping Satan.

    Religion mens Bond with God and there can e no religion without a mediator – Jesus Christ.

    Run oft to your vain pursuits but know that one day you will stand before the Judgement Seat of Jesus, not a Teddy Bear, and then you cset Him right about all of His wrongs.

  141. @Yukon Jack

    提多斯成为上帝,约瑟夫斯成为耶稣。

    罗马人的方式是征服奥特伯人的神,然后将其纳入万神殿。 阿尔emi弥斯,伊希斯,耶和华。
    因为犹太人是一神教徒,所以他们很难面对。 特比的食物法很怪异。 他们受了割礼。
    弗拉维安人必须找到削弱犹太教的方法。 基督教是推动犹太教分裂的楔子,像犹太教徒一样hung依犹太教徒,他们在犹太教堂里闲逛,但由于包皮完整而并非犹太人。 在第二次犹太战争之后,这一点变得更加重要。 罗马人迫切需要控制犹太教,否则他们将被更高的生育率和conversion依所吞没。

    对于现代世界来说,基督将我们从犹太人中拯救出来的想法,是弥赛亚重返的愿望。 如果他从未来过弥赛亚,该如何返回? 如果一个人用一篮子鱼喂了5,000只,我认为这个故事会像野火一样蔓延开来。 其余的“奇迹”也是如此。 我们到处寻找确认,我们发现沉默。
    不知何故,第一次犹太战争(公元66-70年)的唯一来源是约瑟夫斯。 为什么? 因为Flavian皇帝(Vespasian,Titus,Domitian)在严格的叙事控制下杀死了竞争的历史。 那就是力量。 撰写四本福音书并创建一种新的帝国宗教的力量:罗马天主教。
    我很欣赏东方基督教的所作所为。 然而,天主教一直是罗马向群众强加的宗教。 目前,它是NWO-马克思主义-犹太教徒的下属机构。 告诉我接受尼日利亚人的野蛮行为,我没有任何普遍主义的宗教信仰。 那就是现代帝国大厦:将原始的野蛮人放进高度信任的社会,然后如果我们不喜欢我们的姐妹而被强奸,就称我们为种族主义者。
    [电子邮件保护] 黑教皇。
    [电子邮件保护] 基督教犹太复国主义者异端的家伙。
    [电子邮件保护] 提多斯和犹太人约瑟夫斯。
    迈克尔·琼斯(E.Michael Jones)会让我们大家遵守400年前的犹太人违反协议。 犹太人有一个家乡贫民窟; 他们需要去那里,再也不会回来。 如果他们拒绝离开,则需要将其移走。 必要时用力。
    现在,犹太人已成为我们的统治者,并控制着我们的金钱和财务状况,以便他们可以盲目地偷我们。 这场闹剧需要结束。
    Il Papa Nero Francis不会带领我们摆脱困境。 他太忙于亲吻犹太人的脚并服务于撒旦·巴尔·莫洛奇

    • 同意: Based Lad
  142. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    I’ll take the Civil War, the First World War, the great depression all in one over what we have today. Sorry old man, but your modern, liberal society means absolutely nothing to me. There’s nothing about modern day U-S-A I’m willing to fight for. As far as you saying whites in the 19th century were more committed to racial equality now than before you must have been out of your mind, both Lincoln AND Andrew Johnson never wanted anything of the sort.

  143. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    >我没有理由要求普世主义宗教告诉我接受尼日利亚人的野蛮行径。

    除了你头脑中的声音,还有谁这么说?

    Sorry to say but atheism is universal. A black man can be an atheist. The liberal white atheist alliance with atheist jews or non white atheists is the most common thing there is, many examples, current and in history. When whites are around 10% of the world’s population and only 3% of the world’s children, all ideas will be majority non white, since all ideas are universal. Philosophy, math, biology, chess are all majority practiced by non whites.

    您的修订历史有始无终的缺陷,下次再读一本书。

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  144. Art 说:

    Ted Kaczynski, aka the Unabomber, writes to David Skrbina from prison

    Two haters!

    One murders people – the other Western culture.

    • 回复: @Art
  145. @GeeBee

    He’s absolutely right and you are wrong. No atheist ever died for anything, and atheism is nothing but a product of atheism, so is equality btw. Equality is a liberal social construct not religious one.

    The atheist believes nothing created everything or the universe created itself before it existed. 2 prepositions that are logically impossible. But the atheist also believes he doesn’t have to explain anything to anyone or never answer questions, while he can ask whatever he wants.

    The atheist gets offended when he gets called a monkey that can talk, he starts talking about all the human rights he has and you can’t be skeptical about. “If god exists why do I wanna take dicks up my ass”, “if god exists why I can’t lose weight”, “if god exists why does my penis smell so bad”, asks the atheist.

    The atheist also makes it pretty clear he’s selfish, he will stand for nothing and noone and he’s only in it for “muh dick” reasons. But the atheist hypocrisy also tells him other people must stand with him, even though he’s not obliged to return the favor, he only cares about himself.

    Don’t ask people to do something for you that you won’t do for them. I owe liberal democracy NOTHING. Have your gay marriage, your cocaine and your antidepressant addiction. Leave me out of it.

    • 回复: @GeeBee
  146. Joe Paluka 说:

    Lets see how brave this “Professional Philosopher” is to come out with a similar book saying that the Muslim religion is a 1400 year old hoax. He knows nothing will happen to him if he comes out with a book that attempts to debunk Christianity because the only people that would read such a book are other ivory tower academics that want to bolster their own doubts about Christianity and a few religious and philosophical scholars. All he’ll get are a few intellectual challenges from same intellectuals and theologists. Had he written a book debunking the Muslim religion as fraud, he’d create an instant demand for his book and calls for his life to be taken in the name of Allah.

  147. @anonymous

    The jew were broken off….those who come to Christ can be grafted in.

    Romans 11 is actually very clear.

    In any case, most debates regarding religion are just stupid…..I can’t even make it through these comments.

  148. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Excal

    内在的阴险灾难没有拯救基督教。 你们中许多精神上的贫民都拒绝这种异教可憎的事实,我喜欢称之为印度教轻度(基于三位神灵的共同谬误),这也许可以归因于您自称较高的智商。 你们所有人都可以为此感到自豪,即使相对简短(以人的生命年为单位)。

    与之形成鲜明对比的是,当他们深入探究极端主义异教徒的地狱之时,只需看看印度斯坦的大脑粪便,以及他们为自己做的事情。

    基督徒从未真正理解过您所要信仰的信仰所基于的异教,例如三位一体,100%man-100%god aka mangods,3人合1等,除非可悲的是, “we simply take it on faith, because God is incomprehensible.”

    And then, there is always the unrelenting assault of Islam’s true monotheism on your pagan godless evilisation. As long as you continue your assault on muslims, may the Almighty One spiritually suffocate you all, and also manifest a small taste of the unimaginable horror which awaits your godless souls. God willing.

    现在它正在与现代主义作斗争,我相信结果将是相似的。

    您的意思是说出来更强壮吗? 哈哈! 你希望!

    With the advent of the Internet (an invention of the Christian world… oh, the irony! lol!), the spread of Islam’s true monotheism is reaching right into your homes. Do you still think the current situation is the same?

    That doesn’t mean that you pagan godless vermin will come flocking to Islam. That would require a renunciation of your racially supremacist ideals (hence why you reject a non-white prophet who advocated absolute true monotheism).

    I truly don’t see that happening anytime in the foreseeable future. So, an overwhelming number of you, and your children, and their children, are destined for a rather unpleasant Hereafter.

    • 回复: @WJ
    , @Excal
  149. Anonymous[301]• 免责声明 说:
    @Agent76

    O.M.F.G. The depths of insanity the True Believer goes to, never ceases to amaze..

    • 巨魔: Agent76
    • 回复: @Agent76
  150. Fr. John 说:
    @storxian

    “Since the biblical Jesus story is false, it was evidently constructed by Paul and his fellow Jews in order to sway the gullible Gentile masses to their side and away from Rome…”.

    然后,BULLSH * T开始。

    厌恶坐。 修复之后,这些类型将成为异教徒和亵渎者中首批进入石器场的人。

    there are more written records attesting to Christ’s existence, and the rise of the Church in the midst of an apostate and Christophobic Jewry, that the first sentence of this screed is as lying as it is duplicitous.

    May God damn the bastards. I’m done with putting up with sodomites, Jews, Christophobes and other detritus of the so-called “intelligentsia,” who are all fools. Ps. 14:1

    阿萨纳西奥斯(Athanasios,4世纪)说,正教是“主赐予的信仰,是由使徒传讲的,是由教父保留的。 教会就是以此为基础建立的。 如果有任何人偏离这一点,那么他既不应也不应该再被称为基督徒。”

    “任何能够说出真相但保持沉默的人,都会受到上帝的严厉审判,尤其是在这种情况下,整个东正教教堂的信仰和根基都处于危险之中。 在这种情况下保持沉默就等于背叛了这些,适当的证人属于那些责备(捍卫信仰)的人。”
    —圣罗勒大帝

    • 同意: Seraphim, Mevashir
    • 回复: @JamesinNM
  151. Agent76 说:
    @Anonymous

    How old are you child that you do not spell words? “I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.” Socrates

    • 回复: @Zarathustra
  152. Art 说:
    @Art

    Here is what David Skrbina believes in.

    Panpsychism – wiki — In philosophy of mind, panpsychism is the view that mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality. It is also described as a theory that “the mind is a fundamental feature of the world which exists throughout the universe.”[2] It is one of the oldest philosophical theories.

    Here is Jesus’ philosophy — “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

    Hmm — which philosophical belief has made the world a better place to live?

    • 回复: @vinteuil
    , @Seraphim
  153. vinteuil 说:

    So how does all this fit in with Gunnar Heinsohn’s work, according to which there are only about three centuries worth of physical remains from the first millenium?

    Is Skrbina even aware of Heinsohn? Does he address his arguments?

  154. WJ 说:
    @G. Poulin

    Christian churches should definitely dump the SJW social programs since they just enable dependency. A lot of churches are big on importing more vibrants. They should just stop.

    Skrbina apparently has some weird beliefs himself. Never heard of panpsycism.

    Something tells me that Skrbina would have a really tough time changing a tire.

  155. JamesinNM 说:

    Read C. S. Lewis’ book “Mere Christianity.”

  156. WJ 说:
    @anonymous

    Islam is several hundred years behind Christianity, but some time in the next century, maybe sooner that moronic goat ffing religion will mellow and find itself compatible with standard norms. The goat ffers just need time to become enlightened. It will happen.

    • 同意: Levtraro
  157. JamesinNM 说:
    @Fr. John

    Read Romans 2:28-29 describing real Jews, born again Christians with changed hearts regardless of ethnic background, and compare with Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 that describe false Jews as the synagogue of Satan.

  158. @storxian

    再次感谢您值得一提的评论,不仅在队列中!

    顺便说一句很棒的博客…。很长时间以来我读过的一些最令人耳目一新的文章!

  159. Voltara 说:

    Paul (who never met Jesus) was a marketing man and politician who corrupted the true teaching of Jesus and promoted the idea of a bodily resurrection to make his version of Christianity more appealing. At the same time he was fighting with the Gnostics (Gospel of Thomas) for control (hence the addition of “doubting Thomas” in John).

    Once you read past the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all you get is judgement, speculation and politics, none of which Jesus would have endorsed.

  160. FvS 说:
    @FatR

    1.)亚伯拉罕宗教不是实现人口高出生率的必要条件。 这可以通过国家政策来实现。
    2.)犹太人之所以占主导地位,有多种原因,但可以说最重要的是,他们的宗教宣扬犹太人至上主义,而基督教是普世主义者。 并非所有宗教都是平等的。
    3.)我经常看到这种针对宗教的结果论观点“出生率!”。 “反堕落!”,但是讨论中丢失的是宗教本身是否真实。 圣诞老人使孩子们变得好,但圣诞老人不存在。
    4.)白色表示 欧洲 高加索人。 白人民族主义者对雅利安人的现代用法也主要指欧洲人。 据说波斯人,普什图人和其他许多伊斯兰团体的雅利安人血统实际上是通过与Semites,Dravidians等种族混血而消灭的。

    • 回复: @Alden
  161. Nobody gives his life for a myth.
    Christianity began with a multitude of witnesses willing to die for Christ.
    请, unz.com, don’t disappoint me with articles like this.

  162. IronForge 说:

    Not bad; but Off Target.

    No One Wrote about Jesus, his Disciples, or his Followers in 1-2 Centuries CE.

    Christianity was Fabricated in Nicea under the Sponsorship of Constantine as a favor for his “Chrestus” Cult Supporters.

    耶稣从未存在过点com

    4th Century CE.

    The Gospels and NT were First Published as parts of First Christian Bibles which Rolled Out – After Nicea.

    IIRC, Paul was a “Chrestus” Cult Figure.

  163. Incitatus 说:
    @Adûnâi

    “All the left countries – the USSR [sic], China, DPR Korea – have had rigid Party hierarchy, omnipresent military, universal education.”

    For the mantra of saintly state order listen to (failed bank-clerk and failed-author) Joseph Göbbels:

    “我们进行的革命是一场彻底的革命。 它从下至上涵盖了公共生活的各个方面……它完全改变了个人与国家之间的关系……[目标是]用集体种族意识代替个性,并用社区代替个人……[将不再]有任何属于个人的自由境界了……个人幸福的时光已经过去了”
    – JosephGöbbels[Helmut Heiber'EarlyGöbbelsDiaries'伦敦,1962; 柴尔德斯“第三帝国”,第331页]

    “Individualism will be conquered and in place of the individual and its deification, the Volk will emerge. The Volk stands in the center of all things. The revolution is conquering the Volk and public life, imprinting its stamp on culture, economy, politics and private life. It would be naïve to believe that art could remain exempt from this…[Art can no longer] claim to be apolitical or nonpartisan. It [can] not claim to have loftier goals than politics…[in earlier times artists] might claim the right to ignore politics, but not at this historic moment…[the goal of the régime and Germany’s artists must be nothing less than to] conquer the soul of the nation.”
    – Joseph Göbbels speech to German Theatre Representatives Mar 1933 [Childers ‘The Third Reich’ p.297]

    “[The press should ensure people] think uniformly, react uniformly, and place themselves body and soul at the disposal of the government.”
    – Joseph Göbbels, Press Conference 16 Mar 1933 (two days after being sworn Reichsminister) [Burleigh ‘The Third Reich’ p.209]

    Forced conformity in a terror régime (aside from impressive parades) didn’t work too well for Göbbels.

    Your mention of the long-departed USSR as current (it fell apart 1991) is telling. How are you doing on Alexei Navalny? Is he dead yet?

    “Anarchy and chaos are the fate of America – the most Christian and right-wing capitalist nation on the planet.”

    “Anarchy and chaos” Golly! Mad Max comes to America? Is that what you wish?

    No matter. Don’t worry about us. We’ll figure it out. We always have.

  164. Anon[146]• 免责声明 说:
    @Observator

    Are you talking about the Haavara Agreement where Hitler agreed to send Jews to Palestine? or are you talking about fictitious debunked events?

  165. FvS 说:
    @FatR

    您将永远不会成为Aryan。 哦,不用担心,从基因上讲,您可能比普通的Yank还要多Aryan,只是没有一个为在盎格鲁圈争夺Aryan种族而战的人会把您当成白人。 他们只是在承受最大压力的情况下勉强接受爱尔兰和波兰人是白人,而您却在他们之下迈出了一步。

    不对。 白人一直意味着欧洲的高加索人,基本上今天所有主要的白人白人组织都同意这种观点,即使是像北欧民族联盟这样享有北欧声誉的组织也是如此。 从历史上讲,爱尔兰人,意大利人,波兰人等人从美国成立之初就可以成为美国公民,当时公民身份仅限于白人。 《独立宣言》的两个签字人是意大利人,三个是爱尔兰人。 但是,这并不一定意味着所有白人种族都是平等的。 然后,如果我们根据德国国民社会主义者的观点来看谁是雅利安人,我们会发现其中包括所有欧洲人。

  166. vinteuil 说:
    @Art

    Do you see some conflict between pansychism & the golden rule?

    • 回复: @Art
  167. Moktezuma 说:

    “and it is certainly true that there is a small but consistent negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity.[3] But the weakness of the association—explaining around four percent of the variance—indicates that there are plenty of intelligent people who are quite religious”

    4%! fortunately !
    I don’t know how people with intelligence can believe these ramblings!
    But … let’s say that this “crazy” argument is true, the Jews also enter the religious circle, so how did they fool other religious people?

  168. @storxian

    …mistranslations from the (G)reek, like…the idea that scripture rather than (C)hrist is the word of (G)od.

    不可或缺的一点。 永恒的感谢。

    无论如何,本能地一直专注于神化身耶稣,而将旧约排除在外。

  169. Thomasina 说:
    @J. Alfred Powell

    “Notably, the only time Jesus displays anger and acts on it is in scourging the money-changers out of the Temple — on the first day of Holy Week, according to the frame story, this is the act that precipitated his execution at the instigation of the Rabbinate — closely allied, then and for centuries before and ever after, with the ‘money-changers.’”

    Yes, Jesus recognized the Predators and threw them out. They murdered him, and have been murdering us ever since.

    捕食者:
    名词
    1. an animal that naturally preys on others. “Wolves are major predators of rodents.”

    2. a person or group that ruthlessly exploits others. “A website frequented by sexual predators.”

    There is a great difference between a “predator” and someone who is ignorant, weak or hungry. The latter you can forgive, have compassion for, heal, but a Predator seldom changes his ways. If given the chance, he’s liable to crucify you.

    • 回复: @J. Alfred Powell
  170. iffen 说:

    David Skrbina is a professional philosopher

    LOL

    Nobody can make up shit like this.

  171. Art 说:
    @vinteuil

    Do you see some conflict between pansychism & the golden rule?

    I do not have a clue as to what pansychism really means or what it has produced.

    Whereas “loving your neighbor as you love yourself” I understand – and it starts and begins a whole set of Christian philosophical ideals that have been the engine of Western progress.

    The Christian philosophical ideals propagated by Jesus are live with hope, life is sacred, love, seek truth, forgive, and grace.

    Jesus verbalized those ideals and put them on the map of human consciousness.

  172. “So, in my view, it’s a complex story, and one that is far from finished.”

    Sorry, professor! The enemy has been identified and thus the question is what to about it. It isn’t as complex as it’s made out to be. But whatever the solution, time is short and running out rather rapidly. Carpe diem!

  173. commandor 说:
    @Incitatus

    Those quotes of Reichsminister für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda Joseph Goebbels are absolutely amazing. If those are not music to your ears, I am sorry, but you are Christtard.

    • 回复: @Incitatus
    , @R2b
  174. @Observator

    You’re swallowing a lot of pablum there from Mein Kampf. Once Hitler began propagating an image of himself he retconned his own past to claim that he had been seized with inspiration at a time when he was blind and learning of the German military defeat. There’s no evidence of that. Hitler learned his core ideology from George Schoenerer and Karl Lueger, the 2 leading figures on the Austrian Right at the turn of century from 19th to 20th. Schoenerer was the leader of the Austrian Pan-German League and Lueger of the Christian Social Movement. Schoenerer provided Hitler with his core philosophy, while Lueger showed how communications works.

    Schoenerer was always antagonistic to Christianity, and this was what fundamentally destroyed his political career. Lueger had started his career by joining an atheist society, but then realized that it would pay better if he posed as a Christian. From these 2 Hitler learned both the racial ideology which rejected Christianity, along with the need to play up to Christian superstitions where the audience embraced such. Up until 1918 the monarchical order in Germany and Austria meant that there wasn’t any serious political prospect open to Hitler. He learned all of his core ideology and political gamesmanship from Schoenerer and Lueger before 1914, but had no avenue for acting on it.

    When the monarchies fell Hitler began looking around for new opportunities. Ernst Roehm then played the principal role in showing Hitler the possibilities for real world action. By the time Hitler was writing Mein Kampf he was ready to rewrite his past and tell people how he had a quasi-religious vision early on which showed him the way. A lot of con-artistry was involved. That’s not to imply that Hitler didn’t fervently hold to an ideology. His ideological outlook was that of Schoenerer, but translated into practical politics using what he had learned from Lueger and Roehm.

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  175. @Alden

    What was the Roman law Jesus violated?

    If Rome was anything like Florida, the the public demonstration and overthrowing of the tables of the money changers shortly before his arrest would have violated some kind of public order statute.

    Or perhaps he was blocking the passage of EMT camels.

    In an updated version of Christianity Jesus would have suffered under Ron DeSantis, been given a lethal injection, died and been buried, and then risen on the third day, ascended into heaven, and taken his seat on the Supreme Court at the right hand of God the Father Almighty and continued to judge the quick and the dead in a suitably nonjudgmental fashion.

    • 哈哈: Alden
  176. @follyofwar

    James’s sect did not “die.” It followed its own advice and retreated to the wilderness. And when it came back out of the wilderness, the Syrian Christians of the time (not the Church ecclesiastical hierarchy, which had something to lose) recognized it as the return of its long lost brother. It had become Islam. Cf: “Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” (Epistle of James 4:7). Submit=Islam. James’ sect were the Ebionites, “the Poor Ones.” Koran: “You are the Poor Ones. God is the Rich.” James’ sect did not abandon circumcision. James is the “brother” to Jesus “not biologically” but because his sect did not recognize Jesus as God but instead as “one of the brothers.” Three Gospels have Jesus say: “And looking about at those who sat around him, he said,`Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.’” A bissel sekhil.

    • 同意: Mevashir
    • 回复: @Mevashir
  177. commandor 说:
    @FatR

    就像反基督徒曾经写过一篇关于白痴的文章一样,他嘲笑朝鲜宣扬描绘穆里坎杀害朝鲜人的宣传图片。

    “That picture is part of Korean culture, intended for internal consumption, in order to produce hatred, which will satiate the roots of the racial tree with vigour. Who is an American compared to this? A quirky, ephemeral creature.”

    值得庆幸的是,当基督教达到其最终结论时,世界将变得更加美好:所有信奉其道德的人都将因此丧命; 不再有基督徒。

  178. Jared Taylorstein: “As far as you saying whites in the 19th century were more committed to racial equality now than before you must have been out of your mind, both Lincoln AND Andrew Johnson never wanted anything of the sort. ”

    The result of the war, citizenship and the vote given to negroes, speaks for itself. Since it came from an America almost 100% white and fanatically Christian, this was clearly the result of Christian insanity with regard to race.

    With regard to the strength of their commitment to this insane ideal, consider the casualties. It was America’s bloodiest war, with ca. 700,000 dead placing it light years beyond anything else.

    With regard to Lincoln, you’re simply wrong. In his last public address before being assassinated, he called for citizenship and the vote to be given to negroes. The patriot John Wilkes Booth was in attendance at this speech, and vowed to kill him because of it. Here are the words that earned him a bullet in the brain:

    “The amount of constituency, so to speak, on which the new Louisiana government rests, would be more satisfactory to all, if it contained fifty, thirty, or even twenty thousand, instead of only about twelve thousand, as it does. It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers. … The colored man too, in seeing all united for him, is inspired with vigilance, and energy, and daring, to the same end. Grant that he desires the elective franchise, will he not attain it sooner by saving the already advanced steps toward it, than by running backward over them?”
    –亚伯拉罕·林肯(Abraham Lincoln),最后一次公开讲话,华盛顿特区,11年1865月XNUMX日

  179. Alden 说:
    @Alfred

    “Jesus was judged guilty by the Jewish priests”

    So what law was Jesus guilty of violating? What was the law?

  180. “There is something about Jewish culture that inspires disgust and hatred” (79).”

    Fortunately, the hasbara trolls on this site use their horse manure to fertilize such sentiments beyond 相信 belief…

  181. anon[203]• 免责声明 说:
    @Sparkon

    我的观点是,人类永远不会在古代童话的磨石下前进。

    Advance in what way? You’re complaining in a comment box on the Interwebs, a communcations system that barely came into existence about 40 years ago. Your complaint was approved and can be read anywhere on the planet that has some sort of communications.

    Advance to what?

  182. Alden 说:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    What was the law Jesus violated?

    Law—Violation——Investigation——Arrest——-
    Trial——-Conviction——-Sentence

    What was the law what was the violation?

    • 回复: @Franz
  183. Alden 说:
    @FvS

    如果有什么可以使我反对白人民族主义,那就是像你这样的人。

    • 回复: @FvS
  184. Thomasina 说:
    @Incitatus

    Those quotes smell like the Biden government, surrounded by barbed wire, dictating from above what everyone is to think and feel. Statues destroyed, artwork gone, history rewritten, speech stifled. Walking six feet apart, masked up.

    EXCEPT in Biden’s case, unlike in Germany, they are attempting to replace the people who built the country with foreigners. If the Democrats (and it’s really the Republicans too – all elites) were trying to get rid of the foreigners and keep the volk, then that would be closer to what Germany was trying to do, trying to retain their cultural way of life.

    Biden is proclaiming that the volk are “White Supremacists”. Quite the opposite of Germany.

    Mad Max has arrived.

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  185. HBM 说:

    After a couple decades of pondering– and less reading, I’ve come to the conclusion that the history of early Christianity is too convoluted, for a whole host of reasons, to ever be brought to any real clarity, especially with respect to the particulars. None of the texts can be dated with certainty; none of the authorship, literally from line to line, is certain; every bit of it might be fiction; everything was edited and redacted over and over again for decades, centuries. The texts can be read from virtually any angle. My personal 30-thousand-foot view, however, is that Christianity undoubtedly began as Jewish Messianism, as tales of resistance to Roman (and perhaps Greek) rule, and which may have been in response to a particular Jesus– or many, or none; it was a counter-discourse, spun by Hellenized Jewish intellectuals (read: Jewish ethnic propagandists), who turned bloodthirsty Jewish, anti-Gentile eschatological fantasies into something falsely “Greek”; Gentile-friendly; White. This disinformation spread happily amongst nonwhite North African Romans and in the Roman gutter and finally among Roman matrons, which sealed the fate of the Empire. As for Paul, although I find what Robert Eisenman has to say about him and the Dead Sea Scrolls compelling, I suspect Paul has as much chance of being a harmonizing late fiction who never actually existed about as likely as anything else. Also, I do follow the conventional wisdom that most of the explicitly anti-Jewish sentiment comes at the hands of later Gentile authors and redactors, after it became untenable to worship a Jewish savior without some qualifications because of the century of wars in Judea and because of Jewish behavior in Rome itself.

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  186. @Anonymous

    Cicero predates Christianity and criticizes the behaviors and civic bullying of the Roman Jewish population. If “anti-Semitism” is by definition criticism of Jews, then Cicero is an “anti-Semite” by definition. If, on the other hand, this definition amounts to pseudo-logical bullying, then he isn’t. In around 80 BC when the Romans took Rhodes in the course of their war against Mithradates they found a vast sum of silver stashed in a temple there by Jewish tax farmers (of Roman taxes) whose depredations on the population of the area had precipitated the war. Who’s the “anti-Semite” there? In the third century BC a Jewish regime seized power in Libya and slaughtered tens if not hundreds of thousands of Libyans. Presumably this made the Libyans feel fairly “anti-Semitic.”

    Is an aversion to Nazis “anti-Germanic” or is it an aversion to Nazis?

  187. @Thomasina

    Wolves don’t predate on wolves, regarding each other as members of the same species.

    • 回复: @Thomasina
  188. @Agent76

    Sorry but that is misquote of Socrates.
    Precise quote is this: I know that I do not know. This could be interpreted more on the line of Clint Eastwood’s ” I do know my limitations.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
    , @Agent76
  189. The questions and arguments about Jesus, Jews and Christianity can go on forever … just back and forth all the time. Who benefited most once the printing press came into being and Bibles were printed in book like form? It wasn’t the Christians because their Book was so confusing and so long with many contradictions making it impossible to have a sound faith. Add to it the Son of God was Jewish and so were nearly all of the stars of the Bible. This must’ve shocked Christians when this came out. And just about this time was when Jews ceased to be thrown out of nations and territories because now Christians feared expelling them, frightened to death of harming “God’s Chosen Ones.”

    So who has benefitted from the printed (and it’s probably been altered) Bible ? It sure wasn’t the Christians or atheists. In fact these 2 groups are controlled and ruled by these “Chosen Ones.”
    Your God is Jewish, worship Him, worship His Jewish mother Mary also.
    Is it any wonder Christians mind’s are so screwed up? Mine sure is.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  190. Seraphim 说:
    @Art

    The philosophy of Jesus is:

    ”Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the FIRST AND GREAT commandment. And the SECOND is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37-38)
    ”And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The FIRST of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength’*: this is the FIRST commandment. 31 And the SECOND is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question” (Mark 12:28-34).

    *Deuteronomy 6:4-9: ”Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord. 5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and all thy strength. 6 And these words, all that I command thee this day, shall be in thy heart and in thy soul. 7 And thou shalt teach them to thy children, and thou shalt speak of them sitting in the house, and walking by the way, and lying down, and rising up. 8 And thou shalt fasten them for a sign upon thy hand, and it shall be immoveable before thine eyes”.

    You should not put the cart before the horse. Christianity is not about making a better place to live: ”I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them” (John 17:9-10). This is the Law that Christ came to fulfill and that the Jews forgot.

  191. Papa 说:
    @Robert Dolan

    I disagree. What you see is end result of philosophy without theology. Reason, empiricism, and even epistemology on its own cannot justify itself; it requires a transcendent presupposition: Logos. As man was in awe over their seaming mastery over nature, they saw themselves as material gods rather than discoverers of truths. Who needs God when we are now gods? Ultimately this hubris in “reason” has lead to present times where man thinks he can craft values out of nothing and they will become “truth” with enough will to power (applied sophisticated nihilism). In the end, this Faustian exercise of rejecting Logos in the pursuit of man’s apotheosis will lead to degenerative catabolic collapse.

    The East has a future. They understand that theology precedes philosophy. They learned quick and hard in a century what rejection of the Logos has lead to; while their brothers in the West have taking the slow innocuous poison over centuries.
    There is no serious philosophy without even the basic answer to the God Question, else all your knowledge, worldview, and “wisdom” is built on thin air and subject to change.

    • 哈哈: Levtraro
    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
    , @Sean
  192. anon[838]• 免责声明 说:

    It is wonderful in some represented respects that various religions or variously political shits can be completely controlled by digital ‘science’ -whatever the fuck that may be. So we may decide what you wish to be depending on whom you wished to be according to A B and Maybe C depending on how much you decided to pay to stay alive. Looks a lot like India right now.
    Things are going right to shit.
    Be honest with you, look after your own country and if India don’t make it that is just too damn bad. Do you think India would protect you if they had the advantage? Be honest with you sweetheart, if they had the advantage they would suck you dry.
    欢迎来到明天。
    tr

  193. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    That’s a statement of titanic idiocy considering that it was precisely during the nineteenth century, when America was almost 100% white and fanatically Christian

    With Christianity: Civil war but with borders and immigration only for Whites

    Without Christianity: We need to bring more third worlders to stop Whites from oppressing everyone.

    Sweden is far more secular than the US so is that the model we should aspire to? You do realize that posting here can be constituted as being “racially divisive” and a judge can send you to jail for merely taking the position that the country has enough Muslims.

    55% of Swedes report as non-religious
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Sweden

    Swedish authorities tracking down seniors for thought crime
    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201803021062161593-sweden-thought-crime/

    The data simply doesn’t support the anti-Christian position. Try all you may but you can’t escape the consistent correlation which is less Christianity = more liberalism. I can easily list a dozen countries where this has been the case. You are the one trying to adopt a completely unsupported belief which is that abandoning Christianity will somehow turn Whites against liberalism and globalism. It just doesn’t happen. The fact that you react so emotionally when I post such clear and well supported data tells me that you most likely suffer from cognitive dissonance on this issue.

    • 同意: Robjil, Rogue
    • 回复: @Robjil
    , @John Q Duped
  194. Thomasina 说:
    @J. Alfred Powell

    And he huffed and he puffed…..

    “Predator: a person or group that ruthlessly exploits others. ”

    This particular type of predator is another type of being altogether – psychopathic, manipulative, cunning.

    Will the U.S. be nailed to the cross this time, or will the predator?

  195. @Papa

    I don’t think you have a handle on what is happening right under your nose….your focus on the abstract has virtually nothing to do with the Bolshevik takeover of the west.

    E. Michael Jones has a clear understanding of what has happened to Christianity and Catholicism….I suggest you look into his work as he is quite knowledgeable.

  196. Robin Hood 说:

    St Paul has always been something of an enigma in New Testament studies, not least because of his “advanced” theology from such an apparently early date. Though contemporaneous, supposedly, with the godman Paul never meets a human Jesus and yet he becomes the most important apostle of the new religion. Then again, the man and his seminal epistles, by convention placed in the mid-years of the 1st century, are actually unheard of until late in the 2nd century. Could our hero from Tarsus be a pious fabrication – just like Jesus and the rest of the gang? https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/paul.htm

  197. Seraphim 说:
    @Zarathustra

    Apparently people are mislead by Twitter. What Socrates really said is somewhat longer (you’ll have to go through all the ‘Apology of Socrates’ and the Plato’s Dialogues):

    ”Now please, men of Athens, do not make a disturbance, not even if I seem to you to be boasting somewhat. For “not mine is the story” that I will tell; rather, I will refer it to a speaker trustworthy to you. Of my wisdom, if indeed it is wisdom of any kind, and what sort of thing it is, I will offer for you as witness the god in Delphi. Now you know Chaerephon, no doubt. He was my comrade from youth as well as a comrade of your multitude, and he shared in your recent exile and returned with you. You do know what sort of man Chaerephon was, how vehement he was in whatever he would set out to do. And in particular he once even went to Delphi and dared to consult the oracle about this—now as I say, do not make disturbances, men—and he asked whether there was anyone wiser than I. The Pythia replied that no one was wiser. And concerning these things his brother here will be a witness for you, since he himself has met his end. Now consider why I say these things: I am going to teach you where the slander against me has come from. When I heard these hings, I pondered them like this: “What ever is the god saying, and what riddle is he posing? For I am conscious that I am not at all wise, either much or little. So what ever is he saying when he claims that I am wisest? Surely he is not saying something false, at least; for that is not sanctioned for him.”

    • 同意: Zarathustra
  198. Franz 说:
    @Alden

    What was the law Jesus violated?

    Someone with a similar name (“Crestus”) is alleged by the Talmud and elsewhere to have been executed for sorcery.

    Illegal and potential sources for execution under Roman Law for sorcery includes: Any prophecy concerning death of a monarch or high ranking personage; divulging the Sibylline Books; making known the outcome of any war before information comes from the top; any form of human sacrifice whether actually carried out or planned.

    The emperor’s title Pontifex Maximus was real. Violations are known to have been punished. One gentleman mocked and made public a Sibylline prophecy and got dead real fast. Dionysian preachers and Druids were often banned or executed for allegations of human sacrifice. Christ DID say Jerusalem would get knocked over; this can be a violation of war-prophecy statute.

    All hypothetical in the current context. But it would be fun to quiz a Talmudic scholar and see if there is any evidence or even further information. Good luck with that.

    • 谢谢: Alden
  199. Seraphim 说:
    @John Q Duped

    The printing of the ‘Bible’ was the exact equivalent of ”Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you”. For ”Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost”.
    Now, for sure your mind is screwed up.

  200. @Incitatus

    As anglo-american propaganda is as its best when slandering thoroughly unsympathetic persons, please do not view the following small corrections as attempts to defend the bad Dr. Goebbels.

    He was not a failed author, even though his first attempts in his early twenties did not meet with success. He also was not a failed bank clerk, even though he tried his hand at this for a few months despite his misgivings. Look at his age when he became a career politician.

    Interestingly, none of his siblings survived the nineteenforties, so you are right, losing a war against the Bolsheviks did not work out too well for him.

    Why the need to make him worse than he was?

    Was the bad Dr. not bad enough?

    Is it conceivable that quite a few of Usistan’s present troubles stem from a firm beliefon its own propagandistic lies?

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  201. @J. Alfred Powell

    前者。
    Nobody ever bothers to make the same example about Bolsheviks and Russians, and not because the Bolsheviks were sooooo much less murderous than the Nazis.

  202. Yukon Jack 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    对于现代世界来说,基督将我们从犹太人中拯救出来的想法,是弥赛亚重返的愿望。 如果他从未来过弥赛亚,该如何返回?

    确实,耶稣在他不存在时无法返回,因此所有这些等待不仅浪费了巨大的时间,而且在基督教的权力结构中发挥了作用,允许犹太人发挥自己的社会作用。 相信耶稣的归来使所有Christiandumb都变得无能为力,没有主动行动,由于相信犹太救主,寄生虫接管了主人。 耶稣是有史以来最伟大的犹太政变。

    I’ve made the point over and over that European tribes lost the battle for their souls when Rome forced them to believe in Yahweh via acceptance of Christ. Christ became the poison that did Europe in and now with Jews in full control, they are eliminating the host with the vaccine program. It’s already over, we are already dead and don’t know it yet. We lost when we got converted. The spell of the Gospels (means God Spell) is so strong even with our full conscious awareness of what is going on it is near impossible to break the spell the believers hold.

    约翰·哈吉(John Hagee)和基督教徒联合会(以色列基督教徒)将为以色列歌颂赞美和圣洁,而最后一位白人基督教徒被消灭了。

    情况是如此悲惨,令人发笑。 听电视的人(犹太人24/7全天候电子宣传)将被从基因库中淘汰。 长期来看vax的杀伤力将很有趣。

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  203. GeeBee 说:
    @Jared Taylorstein

    I am no Liberal, as any brief perusal of my commenting history will quickly attest. I despise it, and I recognise it for what it is: Protestant Christian axiology shorn of its ‘mysterious’ elements, as Revilo P Oliver and many others have noted. Oscar Levy did so a hundred years ago, when he said that “There is a direct line of succession from Savonarola to Luther, and from Luther to Robespierre and from Robespierre to Lenin”. Revilo P Oliver wrote extensively on the origins of both Christianity and its foul spawn Liberalism, for example when he said:

    “自由主义”是在XNUMX世纪后期发明的一种继任宗教,最初包含一种模糊的神学。 就像它起源的基督教一样,它分裂成各种派别和异端,例如雅各宾主义,傅立叶主义,欧文主义,法比安社会主义,马克思主义等等。 “自由派”邪教的教义本质上是基督教放弃了对超自然生物的信仰,但保留了其社会迷信,这些迷信最初源于并必然取决于神的所谓愿望。 这种“自由主义”是基督教的残余,尽管它的信奉者持强烈的热情,但这只是一种逻辑上的荒谬,是从一个被否认的前提中进行的一系列演绎。

    长期以来,“自由派”信徒对盲目和非理性信仰的依赖一直被他们对客观科学的自尊心所掩盖或掩盖,他们将其用作反正统基督教的论战武器,就像新教徒接受哥白尼式的恢复日心说的天文学一样作为对付天主教徒的武器,他们不明智地决定,可以通过烧死聪明的人或折磨他们直到他们退缩,来阻止地球绕着太阳公转而无视圣经。 虔诚的新教徒自然会喜欢一个舒适的小土地,例如他们在圣经中所描述的神,但是他们看到了这样的优势:呼吁我们对观察到的现实的种族尊敬来争取支持,同时将他们的竞争对手贬为无知的愚昧主义者和可笑的咆哮者。 。

    Or, as Adolf Hitler put it:

    The Jew who fraudulently introduced Christianity into the ancient world — in order to ruin it — re-opened the same breach in modern times, this time taking as his pretext the social question. It’s the same sleight-of-hand as before. Just as Saul was changed into St. Paul, Mardochai became Karl Marx. The religion fabricated by Saul of Tarsus, which was later called Christianity, is nothing but the Communism of to-day. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.

    Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance.

    And then think of the history of nationalism. It started in our time as a reaction against Napoleon; Napoleon was the antagonist of the French Revolution; the French Revolution was the consequence of the German Reformation; the German Reformation was based upon a crude Christianity; this kind of Christianity was invented, preached and propagated by the Jews: therefore the Jews have made this war! Please do not think this a joke: it only seems a joke, and behind it there lurks a gigantic truth, and it is this, that all latter-day ideas and movements have originally sprung from a Jewish source, for the simple reason, that the Semitic idea has finally conquered and entirely subdued this only apparently irreligious universe of ours. It has conquered it through Christianity, which of course, is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries. The only thing that would be still worse would be victory for the Jew through Bolshevism.

    As for your ‘The atheist believes nothing created everything or the universe created itself before it existed – two prepositions that are logically impossible’ you are desperate, just like all Christians, to believe the impossibility of a universe existing outside of it being ‘created’ by your evidence-free YHWH. In doing so, you sneer at all the other 宗教 explanations for creation: only your loathsome and psychopathic Jewish YHWH is allowed to claim for itself such abilities (unsurprising, bearing in mind it was itself ‘created’ by Jews, in order to serve their own ends).

    No-one is arguing that ‘nothing created everything’: the very idea of ‘creation’ is itself an entirely human foible, bounded as it is by our experience, and thus confined within a narrow ability to conceptualise such enormities as the universe, to say nothing of time. One might as well ask who or what is supposed to have created your god? If the universe had to be ‘created’ then surely the same applies to the god that you aver did so. If you can get your head around the idea of a pre-existent god, then you’re well on your way to understanding the universe!

    • 谢谢: RVBlake
    • 回复: @Olivier1973
  204. Dumbo 说:
    @Zarathustra

    In practice, I think it means “son of”, so that’s why it’s so common in surnames.

    But, it doesn’t seem to be the rule always. Tesla and a few others. Maybe it depends on the region.

    For instance, Italian surnames can vary a lot depending on the region, some types of names are more common in some regions than others.

    • 同意: Zarathustra
  205. FvS 说:
    @Alden

    您有具体的投诉吗?

    • 回复: @Alden
  206. 耶稣骗局:圣保罗的阴谋集团如何愚弄世界两千年

    This is funny and pathetic at the same time. So… The author believes in the Paulus hoax! For except for the xian scriptures there is not even one mention of this phantom character in any text from the antiquity (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Dion Cassius, etc.). The letters were brought all of a sudden around 150 by Marcion, quite likely himself the author of these letters.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  207. mcohen 说:

    一个问题

    Jews consider statues of jesus forbidden as stated in the ten commandments.it is idolatry.

    there is absolutely no chance that Judaism would be connected in any way to this pagan practice.incidently a jew may pray in a mosque but not in a church.

    interesting isn’t it.

    • 同意: Maowasayali
    • 回复: @Maowasayali
  208. Sean 说:
    @Papa

    It’s well known that seriously religious, fundamentalist Christians in the West have more children on average than non-Christian Europeans, which is certainly adaptive. But they are also more likely to swear fealty to the interests of Israel and in general they are entirely resistant to being informed about the negative effects of multiculturalism or about Jewish cultural influence (whose effects they despise) or even Jewish traditional hostility toward Christianity.

    Maybe those Christian fundamentalists believe that because it too is adaptive. In other words they implicitly understand the Jews are an opponent best avoided.

  209. Robjil 说:
    @John Johnson

    Sweden is the best example that anti-Christian thinking is not going to save humanity from totalitarian Jewish rule.

    Without Christianity or any faith that believes in good behavior for an afterlife, our Jewish rulers become more more rigid and more ruthless. It creates no barriers for Barbara Spectre and her ilk for their endless anti- European agenda.

    A religion that believes in good behavior for afterlife, is needed to the save the west. All good religions believe such a thing. Many Jewish rulers only believe in this this life so they do not fear any afterlife punishment for their worldwide terrorism.

    The “liberals” fall for our Jewish rulers’s thinking, “might makes right” for any cause that the Jewish “free” press says is a “good liberal” cause. All the bombing, invading, and coups for Jewish liberal causes are “OK”. No matter, how much misery it creates for millions of lives. It is a Jewish liberal cause so the “misery” is OK. No afterlife punishment is thought about, so no fears for all the tears it creates with these “causes”.

    • 回复: @Robert Dolan
  210. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    > “Are the people are like sheep, a flock that needs tending (the view of Plato, and William Pierce and Hitler), or are they straw dogs, something first to be accorded reverence, and then trampled underfoot, as in the Taoist metaphor?”

    It’s too metaphysical. What I see is that a society needs its castes, both its stupid and its smart. Is it called organicism? The smart alone cannot create a society, and even if they did, the stupid would be derived from their mass anyway.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organicism

    Thanks for the straw dogs metaphor. It actually reminds me of economist capitalism – when humans are sacrificed for the sake of civilisational efficiency. Racist eugenics appear to me different – when the toys are so precious, you discard an outdated design for a better one – better at destroying other toys.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_dog
    https://www.centertao.org/essays/tao-te-ching/dc-lau/chapter-5-commentary/

    It’s nice to see you quote Lincoln again. But I would also draw attention to Henry L. Benning whom you mentioned on 2020-07-14.
    http://civilwarcauses.org/benningva.htm
    https://www.unz.com/ldinh/who-should-be-shot/#comment-4033790

    And as to that question, it’s ironic, but I will use the words of the original AntiFa, Judaeophiliac and anarcho-monarchist Catholic.

    © JRR 托尔金 – LotR, The Council of Elrond.

    ‘And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. ‘‘Strider’’ I am to one fat man who lives within a day’s march of foes that would freeze his heart, or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise. If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so. That has been the task of my kindred, while the years have lengthened and the grass has grown.

  211. Seraphim 说:
    @Olivier1973

    Listening to you one realizes how hard is to swim out of the swamp of the ‘gnostic’ BS that engulfed the sophomoric indecent ‘judges’ of Christianity for whom ‘ignorance is strength’. You don’t realize that there are people who know what they are talking about. You don’t. But why should one wonder, you are a product of the American ‘education’ system. Pathetic chutzpah* indeed.

    *Chutzpah=”gall, brazen nerve, effrontery, incredible ‘guts’, presumption plus arrogance such as no other word and no other language can do justice to”, ”Chutzpah amounts to a total denial of personal responsibility, which renders others speechless and incredulous … one cannot quite believe that another person totally lacks common human traits like remorse, regret, guilt, sympathy and insight. The implication is at least some degree of psychopathy in the subject, as well as the awestruck amazement of the observer at the display”.

    The whole article, plus the majority of attendant comments are a display of chutzpah.

  212. Joe Wazzzz 说:

    I enjoy the intellectual level of the content of the comments in this article, but I personally believe that most of it is hair splitting. This is my own interpretation of why people have come to dislike the people who identify as Jews. It is simple and straightforward.

    Civilization sprang out of the fertile crescent. The Mediterranean sea divides the north of the civilized world from the south with a coastline that is conducive to the growth of empires, small as they were at that time. The Levant is that area located at the bight of the Med, which from a geographical standpoint is the nexus of all the competing empires. In other words, there was a continuous flow of commerce and armies passing through it throughout history. This meant that the people located in that area were forced to negotiate for their lives and fortunes on a daily basis. From these negotiations came the use of money and understanding of psychology and diplomacy.

    While all of the inhabitance developed these skills to some degree, one tribe made another discovery, and that is that breeding matters. If you breed intelligent people with intelligent people, you get more intelligent people. This requires exclusiveness. Many other tribes understood this too but used it for different reasons. The Royals to forge alliances, the Amish to breed fertile women and hard working farmer men. The Jews did it to master the art of negotiation and expand their imagination. All of these groups suffer from the downside of interbreeding and none more than the Jews. It is no coincidence that Einstein’s wife was his first cousin on one side of his family and his second cousin on the other or that Jews suffer from some terrible genetic disorders. This easily accounts for the unusually high IQ of people who embrace Jewish culture. If my understanding is correct, the Rabbi’s of the Talmudic era of Judaism controlled marriages for the most part, facilitating the program to match like people for the purpose of elevating their levels of intelligence when possible. They clearly were successful and a disproportionate portion of the Jews are the undisputed world masters of money, diplomacy and negotiation.

    Define “intelligence.” I mean the ability to recognize patterns and relationships and to understand the outcomes of the interaction of those patterns and relationships, AND have the wisdom to position oneself such as to take advantage of the benefits and avoid the hazards of those outcomes.
    Assuming that I am correct so far, if a group of people recognize that they are intellectually superior to the other people around them, (how could they not?) it is only natural that they would assume they are special and they would naturally condescend to those around them just as you would dealing with a child. This could easily translate to dishonesty in dealing with them just to save time. If you believe they are not capable of understanding what you are saying, you don’t want to dedicate a lot of effort to what is probably a time consuming, lost cause. Basically, you want them to just do what you tell them to do, or you use psychology to get them to do what you want them to do. People who identify as Jews do this so much that they long ago lost their sense of awareness with the rest of humanity. Be they atheist’s, fundamentalists, whatever brand, they are clearly ethnocentric, and ethnocentrism breeds ethnocentrism. They often act as if no one is listening to them or they simply believe it doesn’t matter. Their internecine personal wars in the mainstream media are something to behold.

    They also observed something that would facilitate their success using psychology, and that is the fact that it is better to have the king’s ear than be the king. Self-serving psychology can be more effective if you hide the fact that there may be some motive afoot other than just helping the person seeking your counsel. And being the king’s counsel usually means you get the news first that he is about to lose his head and you can make the necessary adaptations to your loyalties.

    It would also account for why Jews argue so much among themselves. As you go through life you learn that every answer raises two or more questions. Truth is, in fact, a fool’s errand. That is why Jews joke about irony and how they will parse any question into infinity. It is the root of much of their comedy, effectively making self-deprecating fun of the ultimate uselessness of their intelligence. But the gods have a sense of humor. They have nefariously fitted most humans with a “bullshit detector”. That is to say, people may not understand how they are being taken advantage of but they sense the fact that they are being taken advantage of. This makes the game more interesting for the gods but creates an ongoing problem for the Jews. And that is why, I believe, that throughout history the Jews have struggled with the rest of humanity that they must deal with.

    The nuts and bolts of how it all come into place is very interesting but I believe the final outcome is a result of the above mentioned.

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
  213. @Seraphim

    Sorry, when all what you have to say are fallacies (ad hominem and strawman) you lost the argument.

    In fact I am not sorry. You are judging yourself.

  214. @GeeBee

    The Jew who fraudulently introduced Christianity into the ancient world

    Of course he was wrong. Greeks introduced xian ideology in the ancient world. As everyone knows, xians fighted against judaism and paganism once in power.

  215. @John Johnson

    Christianity is and has been for many years nothing but enablers and whores for the Talmudic Jews. Even the Divinity schools, churches and Christian TV and radio are in their hands. History has been rewritten by and for them. Jews are taught at an early age that someday they will rule this world. Christian churches have become little more than lecture halls and pep rallies for Jesus who said “ask me for ANYTHING” and I will give it to you.
    I know millions of Christians suffer incredibly, some for a lifetime, no answer has ever come to them. So very many are themselves or do have severely autistic troubled children. A “gift of God”? Hardly. More like a “gift” from the Jewish Pharmaceutical Corporations and their very harmful vaccines which began to be administered in schools going back 60 years. And all things “Christian” are putty in their hands because it’s financially prudent for them to do so. Christianity has been reshaped to support them at all costs including dying for them. But they won’t die for Christians.

    • 回复: @Corvinus
  216. Robin Hood 说:

    This is the first in a series of posts arguing that “Paul” is a development of the second century. Here is the presentation of a new chronology, one with consequences for the history of Christianity far more devastating than the mere nonexistence of the Apostle. For if the Pauline epistles are mid-second century writings (as is increasingly suspected), then the canonical gospels—which are later—become later second century texts! We can be quite confident of this because scholars (the latest being Tom Dykstra in his 2012 book Mark, Canonizer of Paul) have shown that the earliest canonical gospel puts Pauline theology in a (contrived) historical setting. All of a sudden, then, Christianity as we know it transforms from a historical development of the first century into an invented literary development of the second century.

    Before successfully moving Paul into the second century, however, it is first necessary to cut his ties, as it were, to the first Christian generation. The argument begins with one question: What in fact do we have that dates Paul securely to the mid-first century CE? Reviewing the information from Acts and the epistles, as noted above, the short answer is: We have nothing at all. The first-century Paul is a phantom, an improbable figure entirely invisible to history. With that admission, a new profile of Christian origins first appears, looming like a barely detectable hulk through thick fog: the New Testament belongs not in the first century at all. The texts we have all been venerating for two millennia had their incipience one hundred years later.

  217. @Seraphim

    *Chutzpah=”gall, brazen nerve, effrontery, incredible ‘guts’, presumption plus arrogance such as no other word and no other language can do justice to”, ”Chutzpah amounts to a total denial of personal responsibility, which renders others speechless and incredulous … one cannot quite believe that another person totally lacks common human traits like remorse, regret, guilt, sympathy and insight. The implication is at least some degree of psychopathy in the subject, as well as the awestruck amazement of the observer at the display”.

    Thanks for this wide-ranging definition, Seraphim.
    Just wishing to complement/illustrate it with the urban legend (perhaps) account of the young Jewish man who killed both his parents, arrested, guilty.
    At sentencing, he asks the Judge for mercy on the grounds he is an orphan.

    I was told this as being an example of Jewish humour …
    As Chutzpah being something clever & admirable …

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  218. @Joe Wazzzz

    > “This meant that the people located in that area were forced to negotiate for their lives and fortunes on a daily basis.”

    Quite a beautifully written comment, but I have a few objections – do we have issues with the Syrians or Anatolians? Conversely, the Armenians too formed a relatively strong diaspora community, but mostly in Eastern Europe, and without being blessed by Jesus, so nobody cares about them.

    > “While all of the inhabitance developed these skills to some degree, one tribe made another discovery, and that is that breeding matters.”

    You are giving the Jews too much credit. The Greeks recognised the importance of eugenics, too – and unlike the Semites, they invented philosophy in their passionate arguments.
    https://chechar.wordpress.com/2017/10/27/what-race-were-the-greeks/

    Theognis, a noble poet from the Dorian city of Megara wrote in the sixth century BC: “The noblest man will marry the lowest daughter of a base family, if only she brings in money. And a lady will share her bed with a foul rich man, preferring gold to pedigree. Money is all. Good breeds with bad and race is lost.”

    > “…it is only natural that they would assume they are special and they would naturally condescend to those around them just as you would dealing with a child.”

    The Jews could only afford being condescending because the Christians accorded to them immense stature in society.

    > “Be they atheist’s, fundamentalists, whatever brand, they are clearly ethnocentric, and ethnocentrism breeds ethnocentrism.”

    Listen to the Jew Lawrence Krauss. He openly bemoans those passages from the Jewish Bible where Jews kill, rob and rape non-Jewish goyim/Gentiles. What is this but a mental disease symmetrical to Christianity?

    > “They often act as if no one is listening to them or they simply believe it doesn’t matter.”

    Because the Aryans are disarmed by the religion of universal love. Meanwhile, in real politics, there are whole disciplines of knowledge dedicated to researching the slightest moves of one’s enemy! The American anti-Communist Christians thoroughly studied every letter of Soviet press releases, every handshake. It was done, it can be done – it is not done.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremlinology

    > “Their internecine personal wars in the mainstream media are something to behold.”

    This is correct. The Jews are quite a far cry from constituting a hive-mind. And they don’t seem particularly intelligent – they could have taken Madagascar for themselves, or settled in Birobijan; instead, they chose to be surrounded by hundreds of millions of hostile Arabs – out of hubris and superstition.
    https://aduunaai.wordpress.com/2021/04/01/on-jews/

  219. @Levtraro

    他/她的观点是,自由主义者也有自己的信仰条款,对此他们将不会遭受任何相反的证据,其中之一就是所有人类“种族”(因为他们承认这些类别的合法性是不菲的),在他们的信仰中是平等的。行为潜能,例如他们的认知能力。

  220. ChristoM 说:

    Today is Holy Paskha – Christ is Risen!

    Χριστόςἀνέστη!
    Хрїстóсъ воскрéсе!
    المسيح قام! حقا قام!‎

  221. Corvinus 说:
    @John Q Duped

    Your response has to be a parody, especially when you spout off that Christians are “severely autistic troubled children”.

  222. Alden 说:

    What specifically was the Roman or Jewish law Jesus violates that led to Jesus’ execution?

    No one has answered my question.

  223. John Johnson: “With Christianity: Civil war but with borders and immigration only for Whites”

    I guess you mean naturalization and are obliquely referring to the Naturalization Act of 1790, since properly speaking, immigration also included forcible immigration, as in the importation of negro slaves. In any case, naturalization was only one way the USA acquired new citizens. As everyone knows, after the war, white Christians made the negroes citizens by Constitutional amendment. Many non-whites also became citizens when their states entered the Union, as in the case of Florida and Texas.

    Why was this permitted? A major part of the reason is because Christianity is a raceless religion, and the liberalism that is its political face is an expression of its raceless worldview.

    John Johnson: “The data simply doesn’t support the anti-Christian position. Try all you may but you can’t escape the consistent correlation which is less Christianity = more liberalism.”

    As usual, you’ve missed the point. Christianity inevitably generates liberalism. The two are inseparable. That’s why the liberalism you pretend to be fighting only exists in the West. If you were sincere, and if you were honest, you’d admit that. It follows that anyone truly opposed to liberalism must also oppose Christianity. Your false characterization of liberalism as a competing religion (a favorite tactic of Christians) and your desperate refusal to acknowledge this reveals you to be a crypto-Christian yourself.

  224. Alden 说:
    @FvS

    如果美国白人从黑人爱好和犹太洗脑中获救。 不会是英联邦德国人和斯堪的纳维亚人的蓝眼睛后裔,都是种族叛徒。

    这将是黑发的意大利人亚美尼亚人和波斯人。

    • 同意: Not Raul
    • 回复: @FvS
  225. Agent76 说:
    @Zarathustra

    Sorry, your wrong. Be blessed and have a great day!

  226. >I have never seen a scholarly argument that the institutionalization of the Catholic Church contributed importantly to the fall of the Empire.

    *咳嗽* 长臂猿

    • 同意: James Forrestal
    • 回复: @James Forrestal
    , @Not Raul
  227. Thim 说:

    Skrbina. Read a couple short biographies, couldn’t find much. No mention of any family, nothing about a wife or any children.

    So we have, apparently, just one more sodomite that objects to Christian law and doctrine, which bans sodomy and assigns these people to hell.

    But this sodomite went further than most. He invented his own religion, pan something or other.

    祝一切顺利。

    The problem with the Christian Canon stems from the Councils, which were called and dominated by the Emperors and their huge apparatus. The assertion that the bishops were free to do what they wanted is obtuse. Many of them had experienced prison and torture. In the end, they did what they were told.

  228. @Robjil

    你击中了要害。

    敬畏上帝是智慧的开始。

    Those who do not fear God, and the threat of eternal punishment, act without reins or restraint, as you observed.

    That’s why I think that belief in God is a necessary component for a smooth running society.

    The problem is that Christianity has been cucked by the small hats to further their nation wrecking agenda.

    I don’t recall anything in the Bible that dictates that we must allow others to harm us and ruin our nations.

    • 谢谢: Robjil
  229. FedUp 说:
    @Alexandros

    @Alexandros, agreed. Being indoctrinated from birth into a (((cult from Judea))) is akin to having suffered a lobotomy of the mind, emotions, & soul. It is a helluva mindf**^. Ask me how i know.

    We need Aryan children spared being tortured from the moment s/he is born and who are shielded from these sick masochistic bastards. We especially need Aryan males taught from birth to be fighters.

  230. @Jared Taylorstein

    Every globalist pope and cbristian leader of the last 50 years. I guess you failed to pay attention.
    Have you ever even read the New Testament? That is a book you might want to take a look at.

  231. Robin Hood 说:
    @dr. rosenpenis

    “If one carefully thinks through with Paul and Marcion the contrast between ‘the righteousness that is by faith’ and ‘the righteousness that is by works’ and is persuaded also of the inadequacy of the means by which Paul thought that he could maintain the canonical recognition of the Old Testament, consistent thinking will not be able to tolerate the validity of the Old Testament as canonical documents in the Christian church.” (30) So says Harnack in the final chapter of his book, and he is right. “Consistent thinking” can only reach the conclusion that Marcion did — that the gospel, with its message of love and mercy taught by Christ, is and must be regarded as a thing separate entirely from the Old Testament. Harnack adds: “If Marcion had reappeared in the time of the Huguenots and Cromwell, he would once again have encountered the warlike God of Israel whom he abhorred, right in the very middle of Christendom.”

    And so it is today, with Christian Zionists applauding every Israeli aggression in the Middle East, only with one very major difference: with a Nile-to-Euphrates agenda spelled out in the book of Genesis, and in a world with a nuclear-armed Jewish state, and with AIPAC-like lobbies reaching into virtually every Western country, the problem has truly reached crisis proportions — not only for Christians, but for all peoples on the planet.

    Israel the Monster

    [更多]

    Earlier I offered a critique of Ehrman’s analysis of “what might have been” had the Marcionite church prevailed, coming to the conclusion that in all likelihood the modern-day state of Israel would never have been born. One can of course carry the conjecture further: without the establishment of the state of Israel, there would have been no Nakba, no Deir Yassin massacre, no 1967 war, no 1973 war, and no pro-Israel lobby in America today. Without the pro-Israel lobby, the wars in Iraq would possibly have been averted. The half a million Iraqi children, whose deaths the Jewish Madelaine Albright felt were “worth it,” could well still be alive. The Palestinians would have a state of their own, would therefore not be subject to having their homes bulldozed or destroyed by bombs, conceivably there would be no blockade of Gaza, no checkpoints in the West Bank or mothers giving birth at them, and no apartheid wall. The Palestinians who were killed in the first Intifada, the second Intifada, those who perished in various Israeli missile attacks on Gaza, including Operation Cast Lead, would either still be alive today or else possibly have died of natural causes.

    Who else would have been spared besides Palestinians and Iraqis? Without a state of Israel, would there ever have been a 9/11 attack? And without 9/11 would thousands of Americans, Afghans, British, Pakistanis, Libyans, and people of other nationalities have died in the ongoing wars that have been fought since then? Moreover, without Israel, and without, by extension, a pro-Israel lobby, would we have leaders pushing even now to take us into new wars? These are questions which legitimately should be asked. Also — was Jesus correct in saying that it’s possible to judge a tree by the fruit it produces, and if so, was Marcion right in zeroing in on this statement and making of it what he did? This, too, is a legitimate question.

    “Marcion’s heretical tradition is flooding the entire world” — so lamented the ancient writer Tertullian in approximately the early third century. But maybe at last it is time for Christianity to give Marcion his due, to finally come to recognize that Jesus was indeed something “new” entirely, that his teachings were an “antithesis” if you will, a complete, total, outright departure from the Old Testament, and that in separating the two Marcion may well have had the right idea. “If one carefully thinks through with Paul and Marcion the contrast between ‘the righteousness that is by faith’ and ‘the righteousness that is by works’ and is persuaded also of the inadequacy of the means by which Paul thought that he could maintain the canonical recognition of the Old Testament, consistent thinking will not be able to tolerate the validity of the Old Testament as canonical documents in the Christian church.” (30) So says Harnack in the final chapter of his book, and he is right. “Consistent thinking” can only reach the conclusion that Marcion did — that the gospel, with its message of love and mercy taught by Christ, is and must be regarded as a thing separate entirely from the Old Testament. Harnack adds: “If Marcion had reappeared in the time of the Huguenots and Cromwell, he would once again have encountered the warlike God of Israel whom he abhorred, right in the very middle of Christendom.”

    And so it is today, with Christian Zionists applauding every Israeli aggression in the Middle East, only with one very major difference: with a Nile-to-Euphrates agenda spelled out in the book of Genesis, and in a world with a nuclear-armed Jewish state, and with AIPAC-like lobbies reaching into virtually every Western country, the problem has truly reached crisis proportions — not only for Christians, but for all peoples on the planet.

    Israel the Monster

    Earlier I offered a critique of Ehrman’s analysis of “what might have been” had the Marcionite church prevailed, coming to the conclusion that in all likelihood the modern-day state of Israel would never have been born. One can of course carry the conjecture further: without the establishment of the state of Israel, there would have been no Nakba, no Deir Yassin massacre, no 1967 war, no 1973 war, and no pro-Israel lobby in America today. Without the pro-Israel lobby, the wars in Iraq would possibly have been averted. The half a million Iraqi children, whose deaths the Jewish Madelaine Albright felt were “worth it,” could well still be alive. The Palestinians would have a state of their own, would therefore not be subject to having their homes bulldozed or destroyed by bombs, conceivably there would be no blockade of Gaza, no checkpoints in the West Bank or mothers giving birth at them, and no apartheid wall. The Palestinians who were killed in the first Intifada, the second Intifada, those who perished in various Israeli missile attacks on Gaza, including Operation Cast Lead, would either still be alive today or else possibly have died of natural causes.

    Who else would have been spared besides Palestinians and Iraqis? Without a state of Israel, would there ever have been a 9/11 attack? And without 9/11 would thousands of Americans, Afghans, British, Pakistanis, Libyans, and people of other nationalities have died in the ongoing wars that have been fought since then? Moreover, without Israel, and without, by extension, a pro-Israel lobby, would we have leaders pushing even now to take us into new wars? These are questions which legitimately should be asked. Also — was Jesus correct in saying that it’s possible to judge a tree by the fruit it produces, and if so, was Marcion right in zeroing in on this statement and making of it what he did? This, too, is a legitimate question.

    “Marcion’s heretical tradition is flooding the entire world” — so lamented the ancient writer Tertullian in approximately the early third century. But maybe at last it is time for Christianity to give Marcion his due, to finally come to recognize that Jesus was indeed something “new” entirely, that his teachings were an “antithesis” if you will, a complete, total, outright departure from the Old Testament, and that in separating the two Marcion may well have had the right idea. “If one carefully thinks through with Paul and Marcion the contrast between ‘the righteousness that is by faith’ and ‘the righteousness that is by works’ and is persuaded also of the inadequacy of the means by which Paul thought that he could maintain the canonical recognition of the Old Testament, consistent thinking will not be able to tolerate the validity of the Old Testament as canonical documents in the Christian church.” (30) So says Harnack in the final chapter of his book, and he is right. “Consistent thinking” can only reach the conclusion that Marcion did — that the gospel, with its message of love and mercy taught by Christ, is and must be regarded as a thing separate entirely from the Old Testament. Harnack adds: “If Marcion had reappeared in the time of the Huguenots and Cromwell, he would once again have encountered the warlike God of Israel whom he abhorred, right in the very middle of Christendom.”

    And so it is today, with Christian Zionists applauding every Israeli aggression in the Middle East, only with one very major difference: with a Nile-to-Euphrates agenda spelled out in the book of Genesis, and in a world with a nuclear-armed Jewish state, and with AIPAC-like lobbies reaching into virtually every Western country, the problem has truly reached crisis proportions — not only for Christians, but for all peoples on the planet.

    Israel the Monster

    Earlier I offered a critique of Ehrman’s analysis of “what might have been” had the Marcionite church prevailed, coming to the conclusion that in all likelihood the modern-day state of Israel would never have been born. One can of course carry the conjecture further: without the establishment of the state of Israel, there would have been no Nakba, no Deir Yassin massacre, no 1967 war, no 1973 war, and no pro-Israel lobby in America today. Without the pro-Israel lobby, the wars in Iraq would possibly have been averted. The half a million Iraqi children, whose deaths the Jewish Madelaine Albright felt were “worth it,” could well still be alive. The Palestinians would have a state of their own, would therefore not be subject to having their homes bulldozed or destroyed by bombs, conceivably there would be no blockade of Gaza, no checkpoints in the West Bank or mothers giving birth at them, and no apartheid wall. The Palestinians who were killed in the first Intifada, the second Intifada, those who perished in various Israeli missile attacks on Gaza, including Operation Cast Lead, would either still be alive today or else possibly have died of natural causes.

    Who else would have been spared besides Palestinians and Iraqis? Without a state of Israel, would there ever have been a 9/11 attack? And without 9/11 would thousands of Americans, Afghans, British, Pakistanis, Libyans, and people of other nationalities have died in the ongoing wars that have been fought since then? Moreover, without Israel, and without, by extension, a pro-Israel lobby, would we have leaders pushing even now to take us into new wars? These are questions which legitimately should be asked. Also — was Jesus correct in saying that it’s possible to judge a tree by the fruit it produces, and if so, was Marcion right in zeroing in on this statement and making of it what he did? This, too, is a legitimate question.

    “Marcion’s heretical tradition is flooding the entire world” — so lamented the ancient writer Tertullian in approximately the early third century. But maybe at last it is time for Christianity to give Marcion his due, to finally come to recognize that Jesus was indeed something “new” entirely, that his teachings were an “antithesis” if you will, a complete, total, outright departure from the Old Testament, and that in separating the two Marcion may well have had the right idea. https://nationalvanguard.org/2015/04/chuck-the-old-testament-an-early-christian-who-may-have-had-a-good-idea/

  232. @Yukon Jack

    When conjob19 hit last year their were immediate concerns in Asia particularly, that it was a bioweapon. They had a ‘Vaccine’ waiting in the wings while they hyped the fear. Classic Helegian method. Then it turns out the ‘vaccine’is also a bioweapon that turns the injected into a disease spreading vector.
    This could only be accomplished among people who have been trained to be compliant, weak fools. Thanks to 2000 years of Abrahamic mind poisoning we have massive virtue signalling by science illiterate, common sense vacant compliant weaklings.
    谢谢耶稣。
    I am still hopeful that there are enough rational people left to fight off what is a clear attack on the human race.
    60 years of talmudvision is also to blame but to be honest who but compliant people softened up by the jesus cult believe what the liars on tv say.

  233. Amon 说:
    @Sparkon

    毫无疑问,天主教会在西方文明的“进步”中发挥了重要作用,但是我们不知道如果没有教会,西方文明将会做什么。

    西方文明独自运走,直到被称为基督教教堂的犯罪组织出现并以盗窃形式将其总收入的十分之一捐献给教堂,或因成为异教徒而死亡,从而使盗窃制度化。

    他们还给了我们一个黑暗的时代,这不仅使那些没有屈服于其圣书写作的材料成为亵渎神灵,而且使它们与创造者一道被毁灭,以阻止他们侵犯自己的权力。

    所有这些异教徒在千百年来一直在学习什么植物可以帮助抵抗各种疾病,甚至进一步增加您的身体健康,这些都荡然无存。 取而代之的是,解决您的苦难要么是为了消灭恶魔而操脑,要么是牧师在殴打您时向您大声疾呼,或者您可以尝试向一个永不回答的上帝祈祷,除非您感到幸运并且身体战斗摆脱任何影响到你的东西。

    我的祖先们航行世界各地进行贸易和发动战争,他们拥有一个有着悠久传统的强大社会。 基督教结束后,平民被自称为国王的奴隶奴役为外界入侵者的奴隶,而随着所有传统,书面语言和神话的消灭,我们的造船技术和知识也因圣火而丧失。

  234. @HBM

    The fundamental pacifism of Christianity is not the response you see from people who have been conquered, which the jews were. The jews responded to Roman rule with a desire for ethnic nationalism not love thy roman neighbour, render to caesar pacifism.

    This is why the very origins of Christianity are so suspect. It is why scholars began digging around and trying to explain where such a narrative would have come from. Who wrote the Gospels? Where were they written and by whom? Well, they weren’t written in Aramaic or Hebrew. They were written in Greek. This is the first clue of a non-indigenous explanation.

    The Flavians are strong suspects. Paul is another one. I suspect both helped to produce a religio licta for Imperial Rome.

    • 回复: @HBM
  235. Kali [又名“fb 无人值守”] 说:
    @Blissex

    Thank you for an excellent, balanced, thoughtful and though-provoking comment.

  236. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    I’m sorry for posting a second reply, but this paramount point escaped my effort to incarnate it in print.

    > “But how did Christianity make any contribution at all to expansion, innovation, and discovery? Where does Jesus recommend his followers go conquer the world? Where does it say in the Bible that Christianity has anything to do with innovation or discovery?”

    Do you not think there to be a danger in evaluating a religion by its tenets, its scripture, its words – in place of its deeds? This attitude is reminiscent to me of the Christian preoccupation with “the Truth” – some ineffable nonsense. It pains me to be a Galilean’s advocate, but technically, there can exist and did exist for a time a society which consists of victorious Aryans LARPing as Jews. A queer and painful ritual such as circumcision was a factor in the success of the Hebrew race. And so on. Behaviour is more important than the “truthfulness” of the meme.

    Mind you, I am not denying the inherent internal logic of cultural dialectics, which I constantly stress, and precisely which I consider the weak point of a Jew-worshipping culture in its potential evolution.

    In your post, there could be a world where the religious tradition is to interpret the Jewish Bible in such a way as to promote science. Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of the text – but you are not an interpreting and law-giving patriarch of a community. This way, Christianity is not what is written but what is done. The same way Soviet Socialism was not multiracial or miscegenating, and American atheism is cucked and sodomitic. A living idea must be incarnated in a certain form in a definite area.

  237. anon[246]• 免责声明 说:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    The problem with blaming Christianity for all forms of Cuck Behavior (which can be summed up as behavior that works against your genetic cluster which includes cuckservativism, lolbergism, primmies, etc.) is that such was around since the day of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism from all evidence was a subversion of Indo-Euro society with its rejection of the established gods as demons, more or less inventing “the individual” with its focus on salvation, rejection of established ritual, etc. Even ignoring that, Aristotle and Plato were both subversives (Plato called for women to be eligible rulers in society rather than barred from the public sphere, Aristotle maintained that “law” was something that transcended the city), so were the Stoics. Christianity was needed for the coming, but not sufficient.

    I would chalk up all of Leftism today as more or less a combo of:

    A. An evolutionary leftover from Indo-Euro society where members of foreign lands could be assimilated within the volk if they descended from a Indo-Euro father and Indo-Euro tradition of assembly.

    B. Hostile outsiders using all means to advance their cluster at the expense of others.

    C. The collapse of all ability for Euro patriarchs to inflict terror on women and children that’s needed to keep them doing what they should courtesy of having high position males undermining other males.

    D. The metamorphosis of the revolution traceable to Zoroastrianism manifested today as ideology Leftism (rejection of societal organization rooted in the universe itself, demanding to favor the foreign over the local/genetic cluster, a disdain for life as a man in itself, degenerate sexuality be it male chastity or female promiscuity or faggotry).

    E. Plenty of men and women are not designed to function in environments where there’s plenty of food, can get fucked around rather than be under lock by patriarchs, no immediate danger of predators, etc. All are “less happy” now since they’re born into comfort and have to consciously decouple themselves from that comfort to gain into a better position.

  238. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:
    @Alden

    Jesus made a point about violating the sabbath and rubbing it in the faces of the Pharisees. According to YHWH in Numbers, this is a crime punishable by execution.

  239. The greatest civilization in recorded history was founded on a hoax.

    Ok, Mr Skrbina…lol

    谢谢你的停留。

    Jews and their bought pagan allies have been plying this shit for years.

    Some Jewess had some big “bestseller” years ago about the “Jesus myth”.

    这是旧消息。

    • 谢谢: Alden
    • 回复: @Rocha
  240. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:

    The preoccupation with racial purity by some on this website is astonishing. Did we learn nothing from Pharaohs fucking their sisters? How about the inbred haemophiliac Tsarevitch who precipitated the ascendancy of Bolshevism? There is no such thing as genetic purity and to pursue it is to bring your bloodline to ruin. Sex is precisely evolved to facilitate DIVERSITY. Diversity, in turn, enables faster evolution. It also enables resilience in case of catastrophe.

    Imagine if Neanderthals had been hell bent on preserving their phenotypical inheritance!

    This is one thing that surely discredits Hitler: his racism. No matter how astute his opinions on Judaism and Christianity, he reaches the wrong conclusion. The horrendous quotes by Goebbels earlier in this thread illustrate the folly of National Socialism. The Nazis were no less obsessed with racial identity than the Jews. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Let’s now remember that Christ is cognate with the Egyptian KRST (royal mummy) and Sanskrit Kristna (an incarnation of God). KRST, like Christ and Kristna, signifies the incarnation of a divine immortal who will be resurrected or reborn. KRST, as a mummy, is “anointed” not only in life but also in death as part of the embalming practice. Further proof of the parallelism of these words is the fact that Kristna has the meaning of dark or blackened, while Christian also means Negro. All this would be moot, except that in the oldest known version of the Jewish Bible, which is written in Greek, the Hebrew word Mashiach is rendered as Christ. A mashiach is not a Christ, and this choice of “translation” forever changed the meaning of the word, as if it were the property of the Jews. It is high time to reclaim the meaning of Christ; perhaps we could start calling the Christ impostor Jesus Mashiach.

    Jesus and Kristna, both incarnations of God, have a lot in common, including their beloved disciples, called John and Arjuna respectively. Yet the New Testament and the Bhagavad Gita are in some ways diametrically opposed. Jesus teaches his followers to not resist their enemies, and to treat even a foreigner as a brother. Meanwhile Kristna teaches Arjuna that he must do battle against his own cousins. Kristna teaches that there is a time to kill. Jesus teaches that it is better for oneself to die, than to kill. In my opinion Jesus takes the golden rule, which is the product of Hinduism, to its illogical extreme, by denying the right of self defense. Hinduism is the original Christian philosophy.

    And to the anonymous Muslim who loves to denigrate Christianity as pagan, please just fuck off. Hinduism will always be superior to Islam in terms of theology. What use is monotheism? If I say that Mars is the only God and he created everything does that make me enlightened? Or does it make me a foolish partisan? The Aryan Hindus invented theology and it was unitheist from the get go. Here are the cultural roots of Western civilization. It would be better for everyone to forget about skin color, and forget about the Bible, and study the Vedas, the Upanishads, and the Gita. This is the true Aryan faith and the mother of all civilization.

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  241. Thomasina 说:
    @Alden

    Alden – I think it had something to do with Jesus throwing the Jews out of the Temple because they were charging interest (usury). The Jews would not have liked this. I don’t think Jesus violated any law, but more wanted to change a system that was quite profitable to the Jews. He had to go. Perhaps someone could correct me if I’m wrong.

    Look what happened to Gadhafi and Hitler when they wanted to change the license-to-print-money system. Gadhafi supplied fresh water, free education, free medical and dental to his citizens. Gone! Eradicated off the face of the earth. The day after Gadhafi was murdered, the bankers were in there setting up a Libyan Central bank. Follow the money.

    • 同意: Alden
  242. @Sparkon

    最后,我们都接受神话为真理,

    不,我们不。

    You’re merely demonstrating your own near-total lack of self-awareness. People who sincerely believe that they don’t have 任何 religion; that they don’t believe in “myths;” that they’re pure “rationalists” — are simply deluding themselves. They’re just evading the issue by labeling their faith-based beliefs with any name other than “religion.” Cuz changing the 姓名 is exactly the same as changing the ,唐查知道。

    Strong positivism was destined to fail. Postmodernism/ postpositivism is 不能 the opposite of strong positivism — or a reaction to it — but its inevitable consequence.

    哦,顺便说一句:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0133-5

    The Mutant Says in His Heart, “There Is No God”: the Rejection of Collective Religiosity Centred Around the Worship of Moral Gods Is Associated with High Mutational Load

    只是在说'

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  243. @Alden

    ” The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.” (John 19 v 7 KJV)

    Please see comment no. 104 above for fuller detail.

  244. @Seraphim

    The whole article, plus the majority of attendant comments are a display of chutzpah

    ----
    This article is part of an overall trend of subjecting Christian documents to rational scientific research. If we accepted your definition of chutzpah, we would be walking beside pack animals rather than driving trucks. Your faith is chutzpah and anti-truth; it is blind acceptance and mindless obedience and I reject it outright.
    Judaism is all about subordinating politics to priests.
    不用了

  245. @storxian

    ii)法利赛人的祸患

    附带说明:现代拉比犹太教(可追溯到公元400年左右)(当然)与古代希伯来人/以色列人的宗教信仰不同。 但在某种程度上 is 连续性,他们的教条完全来自法利赛人。 Essenes和Sadducees都在公元一世纪完全灭绝。

  246. @Anonymous

    You do realize the Aryan Invasion Theory has been examined, debunked and discarded right?

    The genetic studies indicate a mix of migrations into India with a genetic component explaining the colour diferential between north and south. They really do seem to be a fairly mixed group of people that are, ironically, homogenous with respect to being that mix.

    Language is the main divider in India after caste. Yet, 90% of the people speak 5 languages.

    It is in their best interests to stick together in a large federation and resist the onslaught of rapacious judeo-finance-capital.

  247. @spiritsplice

    >I have never seen a scholarly argument that the institutionalization of the Catholic Church contributed importantly to the fall of the Empire.

    *咳嗽* 长臂猿

    Yeah that one was kinda “lolwut?” Perhaps he meant in recent times? Or that Gibbon’s argument had to do with Christianity more generally as opposed to the “institutionalization of the Catholic Church?”

    Gibbon didn’t try to assign the 太阳 blame to Christianity, but he certainly thought it was a significant factor. Then again, as an Brit steeped in Enlightenment ideas, he wasn’t exactly inclined to view Catholicism [or, in the case of the Eastern Empire, Orthodox Christianity] in a positive light…

  248. Incitatus 说:
    @Patrick McNally

    好评论。 谢谢。

    “Once Hitler began propagating an image of himself he retconned his own past to claim that he had been seized with inspiration at a time when he was blind and learning of the German military defeat.”

    There’s evidence Hitler was treated for Shell-Shock/PTSD at Pasewalk, not for mustard gas blindness (he wasn’t housed in a medical ward) according to Thomas Weber et.al.

    He certainly took great care in fashioning his wartime myth (including weeding out any who might contradict it. Chancellor/General von Schleicher and ally Generalmajor von Bredow, rumored to have a copy of his medical files, both shot in the face in Operation Hummingbird 30 Jun 1934.

    • 巨魔: GeneralRipper
  249. Robin Hood 说:
    @dr. rosenpenis

    Earlier I offered a critique of Ehrman’s analysis of “what might have been” had the Marcionite church prevailed, coming to the conclusion that in all likelihood the modern-day state of Israel would never have been born. One can of course carry the conjecture further: without the establishment of the state of Israel, there would have been no Nakba, no Deir Yassin massacre, no 1967 war, no 1973 war, and no pro-Israel lobby in America today. Without the pro-Israel lobby, the wars in Iraq would possibly have been averted. The half a million Iraqi children, whose deaths the Jewish Madelaine Albright felt were “worth it,” could well still be alive. The Palestinians would have a state of their own, would therefore not be subject to having their homes bulldozed or destroyed by bombs, conceivably there would be no blockade of Gaza, no checkpoints in the West Bank or mothers giving birth at them, and no apartheid wall. The Palestinians who were killed in the first Intifada, the second Intifada, those who perished in various Israeli missile attacks on Gaza, including Operation Cast Lead, would either still be alive today or else possibly have died of natural causes.

    Who else would have been spared besides Palestinians and Iraqis? Without a state of Israel, would there ever have been a 9/11 attack? And without 9/11 would thousands of Americans, Afghans, British, Pakistanis, Libyans, and people of other nationalities have died in the ongoing wars that have been fought since then? Moreover, without Israel, and without, by extension, a pro-Israel lobby, would we have leaders pushing even now to take us into new wars? These are questions which legitimately should be asked. Also — was Jesus correct in saying that it’s possible to judge a tree by the fruit it produces, and if so, was Marcion right in zeroing in on this statement and making of it what he did? This, too, is a legitimate question.

    “Marcion’s heretical tradition is flooding the entire world” — so lamented the ancient writer Tertullian in approximately the early third century. But maybe at last it is time for Christianity to give Marcion his due, to finally come to recognize that Jesus was indeed something “new” entirely, that his teachings were an “antithesis” if you will, a complete, total, outright departure from the Old Testament, and that in separating the two Marcion may well have had the right idea. https://nationalvanguard.org/2015/04/chuck-the-old-testament-an-early-christian-who-may-have-had-a-good-idea/

  250. Adûnâi: “Do you not think there to be a danger in evaluating a religion by its tenets, its scripture, its words – in place of its deeds?”

    But that’s just it. There’s no connection demonstrated between the two things. How do we know that the deeds wouldn’t have been done without Christianity; with some other religion, or no religion at all? Christians dishonestly want to claim信用 for things Christianity as such had nothing to do with. It wasn’t priests who explored the New World; not priests who advanced science; not priests who did the soldiering that expanded the Empire. The people who did such things may have nominally been Christians, but there’s no proof their Christianity is what motivated them. And yet, in some contexts, we are told that all of that is to Christianity’s credit, not to the men who did it; that they couldn’t have done it without Christianity. (At the same time though, in other contexts, we are told that the Enlightenment and the values it introduced were a “subversion” of Christianity; a Jewish plot. LOL. It would be nice if they made up their minds!) Claiming undue credit for things it had nothing to do with, or even opposed, while disclaiming responsibility for things that are its fault is a game that Christians are adept at playing.

    Adûnâi: “This attitude is reminiscent to me of the Christian preoccupation with “the Truth” – some ineffable nonsense.”

    According to the Bible, Jesus is the only truth. Christianity is unconcerned with truths of this world, as its gaze is focused on an imaginary next. That’s why it disdains reason and equates the quest for truth in this world with foolishness:

    Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God.
    – 哥林多前书 1:3-18

    As for the truths of this world, there is survival value in knowing them. Hence, the quest for truth would appear to be hard-wired in us by evolution. If there is no truth, or no truth except Jesus, then there is no racial truth either. It has been hypothesized that getting people to believe that is the whole point of Christianity.

  251. Incitatus 说:
    @commandor

    “Those quotes of Reichsminister für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda Joseph Goebbels are absolutely amazing”

    So you want to follow a party hack, a miserable failure in the private sector? Brilliant at enlisting the disaffected minority yearning to be unthinking slaves of the state and intimidating the rest? Himmler (another failure in the private sector – clerk in a fertilizer factory redundant after a year) and Heydrich (dismissed from naval service by Raeder for ‘conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman’) had a hand in the latter (eight months in a KZ for criticism of the régime).

    All served a charismatic, suicidal Austrian impresario. For all practical purposes a cult ‘savior’. Also unsuccessful in the private sector (vagabond/gas-bag rabble-rouser), no real academic accomplishments, who in four years of military service was promoted only once to gefreiter (Private First Class). At that rank he couldn’t give orders to anyone. Wonder why?

    If their lemming-like rants are “music to your ears”, caution. You might end up like Clubfoot Joe – poisoning the kids, suicide for the wife and yourself. Same with Adolf (brains on the bunker ceiling) and the new Frau. Same with ‘Sergeant Heinrich Hitzinger’ (otherwise known as Reichsführer-SS Henrich Himmler).

    What were your words? “Absolutely amazing”?

    Yes, that about covers it.

    • 同意: RVBlake
    • 巨魔: GeneralRipper
    • 回复: @commandor
  252. @J. Alfred Powell

    There is evidence (inscriptions) that people writing “an early form of Hebrew” fought as mercenaries in Egypt around 1200 BC.

    “An early form of Hebrew?” In 1200 BC? That’s like referring to ancient Latin as “an early form of French” [or Spanish, or Italian…]

    Why not say “an early form of Punic?” [Or Ammonite, etc.]

    1200 BC would be Proto-Sinaitic/ Proto-Canaanite/ early Phoenician. Better phrased as “people writing in a Canaanite dialect” [therefore likely to be a semitic people]. Sure, the writers could be early habiru. But if you look at the extent of the Phoenician empire shortly after that [1100 BC], it extended all the way from the Levant to Iberia.

    So they must have sailed past Egypt pretty frequently. Those inscriptions 可以 have been written by proto-Israelites. But that’s hardly the only possibility.

    • 同意: Not Raul
  253. Sparkon 说:
    @James Forrestal

    Sorry, but no.

    “First, know thyself, but don’t expect to know me.”

    • 回复: @James Forrestal
  254. The judaizers have hated Paul for 2,000 years.

    取一个数字。

    When you’re done scribbling propaganda try reading what millions of the Pre-Nicene Christians relied on: https://www.theveryfirstbible.org

  255. Incitatus 说:
    @but an humble craftsman

    “As anglo-american propaganda is as its best when slandering thoroughly unsympathetic persons, please do not view the following small corrections as attempts to defend the bad Dr. Goebbels.”

    “Slander”? Simple question. Did Clubfoot Joe make an independent living (author or bank clerk) in private life prior to the NSDAP? Been a while since reading Longerich, but I seem to recall Joe was supported by his parents for a long, long time.

    “He was not a failed author, even though his first attempts in his early twenties did not meet with success.”

    Great oxymoron. Tell us what ‘successful’ popular works he penned/published prior to joining the NSDAP. Be specific.

    “He also was not a failed bank clerk, even though he tried his hand at this for a few months despite his misgivings. Look at his age when he became a career politician.”

    What planet are you on? Being dismissed as a bank clerk after “a few months” means he was a failure. Who cares about his “misgivings”?

    “Why the need to make him worse than he was?”

    Why the need to inflate Joe’s pre-NSDAP career? Are you playing with Unz posters to augment confusion/nihilism? Seems like it.

    “Is it conceivable that quite a few of Usistan’s present troubles stem from a firm beliefon its own propagandistic lies?”

    No idea what you’re trying to say.

    Too much vodka, comrad? Stay well, sleep it off.

  256. The triumph of the cultural left to the point of substantial consensus in the West has created a moral community where people who do not subscribe to their beliefs are seen as not only intellectually deficient 但作为 morally evil.

    And [importantly] low status. When evaluating other Whites, the mind of the average shitlib automatically melds these three attributes into one — the unitary concept of “badwhyte” [i.e. redneck/ “white trash”/ “racist”/ etc.] A poor -White is obviously a victim who needs/ deserves help… but a poor 白色 , is merely demonstrating that he was never destined to be one of the “Elect,” thus “deserves” his current condition. And if he endorses any sort of heretical position, that can only be due to ignorance evil intent.

    By heaping whatever abuse they can on the heads of these allegedly stupid/ evil/ low status badwhytes, shitlibs are attempting to “prove” that 他们 are unconditionally predestined to make it to atheistic nonheaven.

    [Hey, Moldbuggery isn’t 完全 BS; it’s always helpful to have some grain of truth when selling your ideology]

  257. @Sparkon

    LOL

    See “near-total lack of self-awareness” above — a characteristic feature of ignorant, hate-filled atheistic Christophobes.

    • 回复: @Anon
  258. @G. Poulin

    Both Christianity’s social teachings and spiritual teachings are Jewish in nature and are used to attack Whites. The 666 Black Sun website has interesting information on the Jewish nature of Christianity. “Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism.”-Oswald Spengler

  259. Not Raul 说:
    @J. Alfred Powell

    In the third century BC a Jewish regime seized power in Libya and slaughtered tens if not hundreds of thousands of Libyans.

    I wasn’t able to find anything about this online.

    Are you sure you aren’t confusing this with the Kitos War of 115-117 AD?

  260. Not Raul 说:
    @spiritsplice

    >I have never seen a scholarly argument that the institutionalization of the Catholic Church contributed importantly to the fall of the Empire.

    *咳嗽* 长臂猿

    Gibbon had an axe to grind.

    He didn’t make a scholarly argument. He was a polemicist.

  261. commandor 说:
    @Incitatus

    Now I am pretty sure you are a kike.

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  262. Incitatus 说:
    @Thomasina

    “Those [Göbbels] quotes smell like the Biden government, surrounded by barbed wire, dictating from above what everyone is to think and feel. Statues destroyed, artwork gone, history rewritten, speech stifled. Walking six feet apart, masked up.”

    Alas, many on this site crave for a charismatic Führer, so what’s your problem? Take it up with them.

    “EXCEPT in Biden’s case, unlike in Germany, they are attempting to replace the people who built the country with foreigners.”

    Do you mean Austrian former vagabond military laggard (gefreiter PFC) Hitler?

    Hopefully you realize under Trump and Biden 65+% of illegals fly in and overstay visas. Trump’s ‘Wall’ is (always has been) bullshit – a band-aid on an arterial wound. A gesture funding faithful supporter/contractors who doubtless kick-u;p campaign contributions.

    Guess who (seasonals and illegals) Trump employs on his properties? Guess who the Chamber of Commerce champions? Guess who Democrats support? They sleep in the same bed.

    “Mad Max has arrived.”

    Don’t think so. It’s business as usual with no tax/\$750/yr deadbeat billionaire Trump. That’s the lesson of the last four years.

    “所有动物都是平等的,但有些动物比其他动物更平等。”
    -George Orwell ‘Animal Farm’ 1945

  263. Blessed Pascha to all!…

    • 谢谢: Not Raul
    • 回复: @Anon
  264. HBM 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    I can’t accept the Flavian thing and have pretty strong feelings against it. I 能够 entertain the possibility that Paul might have been some sort of Roman agent sent to disrupt Jewish Messianists, and he inadvertently created a monster. I also toy with the idea that Paul is another post-hoc invention, a character meant to put a face on (and obscure) Hellenized Jewish discourses spinning the Messianic behaviors of their more rowdy co-ethnics. The enlightened “Historical Jesus” take– where the Jesus we know almost certainly existed and was a peripatetic holy man nice guy, like some sort of wandering pacifistic universalist Jewish Socrates– is nonsense. It’s propaganda, is ancient 哈斯巴拉. To me Christianity almost certainly begins as a fundamentalist Jewish anti-Roman nationalist movement, and my guess is that, initially, Hellenic Jews turn out religious texts characterizing it as something unthreatening, and more Greek, which really gets the ball rolling. Gentiles, probably nonwhite “Romans” are compelled take this up and begin to tell their own holy lies in the same fashion. Some of the anti-Semitism in Christianity is probably a relic of Jewish infighting, extant in lower layers of the texts and escaping redaction, but most is indicative of later Gentile (and probably 善意 Roman citizen) authorship, and frankly par for the course– Jewish Utopian bullshit always seems to bite them back in the worst ways and they deny having had anything to do with engendering it. I don’t think there’s much chance of knowing the truth with any granular certainty. The mendacity is too thoroughgoing and complex, which is by design. It’s a giant multi-century palimpsest of falsehoods concocted by the worst kind of agenda-driven liars and charlatans, and once these folks finally took power they undoubtedly destroyed any texts that could help us know what really happened.

    • 回复: @Alden
  265. Incitatus 说:
    @commandor

    “Now I am pretty sure you are a kike.”

    Sorry, traced my roots (so far) to 260 AD Avaricum (present day Bourges, Berry). No Hebrews, not that it matters.

    How about you? Sure you’re not Jewish somewhere along the kennel records of your family?

    You sound like a juvenile soliciting images of power (the NSDAP) to assuage pubescent failure.

  266. “Confessions are great tool for justifiably committing atrocities, they may even help returning war criminals deal with PTSD?”

    I could not in good conscience contend that christians don’t make mistakes. And I certainly have to assent to the value of confession. But I tread lightly about when and how said confessions should take place.

  267. Alden 说:
    @HBM

    What do you mean by non White Romans? A few African slaves? Or do you believe that Italians; whether living today or 1500, 2,000 3.000 years ago are not White?

    What are Italians if they are not White?

  268. I offer here an interpretation of “The Jesus Hoax: How St. Paul’s Cabal Fooled the World for Two Thousand Years” that neither confirms atheists’ affirmations, or religionists’ refutations, of the book, but, nevertheless, finds Skrbina’s conspiracy theory about the origin of Christianity and a providential origin of Christianity as both plausible and not contradictory. Thus, those in both ideological camps of thought will find my review disappointing and likely triggering strong opposition, as it will be at odds with entrenched beliefs in both camps (cognitive dissonance). Hold your nose, I will borrow from agnostic historian Max Weber to explain how the supposed Roman creation of Christianity and divine providence are not necessarily antithetical.

    First, Skrbina turns Joe Atwill’s thesis on its head in his book Caesar’s Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus. To Atwill, Christianity was invented by the Romans by conscripting the Jewish general-priest Josephus to write the Gospels as a military psychological operation (psy ops) to pacify militant Jews to not oppose Roman conquest and occupation. Conversely, to Skrbina, Christianity was an invention of the Apostle Paul to “sway the Gentile masses to their side and away from Rome”. These two opposing views prove you can find evidence in the religious scriptures for any interpretation you want.

    However, I don’t find Skibina’s evidence credible because he doesn’t try and falsify his own thesis but just cherry picks evidence to prove it. Moreover, I don’t find Skrbina’s evidence as credible or meeting the test of the preponderance of the evidence. Consider the following key verses from the Christian Gospels that overwhelmingly tend to be pro-Roman more than anti-Roman:

    [更多]

    • Matthew: Turn the other cheek (don’t join Jewish Zealot resistance to Rome)
    • Matthew: Pay one’s taxes and other tribute to Rome (Roman citizens were tax exempt)
    • Mark: If one is rich, give away all their property and money to the poor (so that they cannot fund anti-Roman resistance)
    • Matthew: To “go the extra mile” to help strangers (to help carry a Roman soldier’s supplies)
    • Matthew: Avoid mass persuasion and hysteria which will cause those who are possessed with a demon to run to the sea and drown (allusion to Roman legions, Masada siege and mass suicide?)
    • Matthew: “Put your sword into its sheath, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (by war against the Roman Empire)
    • Luke: “Love the stranger” (Roman soldier)
    • Luke: “Love your enemies” (the Romans)
    • Matthew: Understand that Jesus was sent “only to the lost sheep of Israel” to convert them (the Jewish resisters against Rome)
    • Mark: Not blame the Roman soldiers for the crucifixion (“Christ fiction” – but blame the Jewish priests)
    • John: Lose their life for Jesus (not for the Jewish Zealots)
    • Matthew: Who do you say that I am? (the son of God; contrary to Jewish law against idol worship).
    • Matthew: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Jesus forgives Roman soldiers but not Jews).
    Matthew: I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother. A man’s enemies will be members of his own household (against the Jews and towards the Romans)

    Nonetheless, Skrbina asserts that there is no rational basis for Christianity because Paul was an opponent of the Roman Empire. But neither is there any irrefutable proof that Paul ever existed. There isn’t any. Does this mean that Skrbina has attempted a Pauline Hoax? See, where Skrbina’s type of thinking leads one: in a circle.

    Skrbina encourages readers to “go to your local church leaders and confront them with the evidence (or the lack thereof)” about their religion. “Then, make it clear to them they have been swindled”. But, should readers also do the same to Skrbina’s book as well, that is based more on suppositions and selective evidence than reason? As a lay sociologist of religion, I find the world is full of crackpot and fraudulent religions, ideologies, ideologies masquerading as science, and kooky (unintelligent – McDonald) people. Are they more harmful than those who believe in astrology? Are the scientists behind the C-19 panic any more credible than, say, Christians? Or are we all living with uncertainty but each of us claim certainty and greater rationality for our beliefs? I don’t trust certaintists of any stripe: religious or non-religious.

    Taking Joe Atwill’s thesis as the more credible, nonetheless the Romans had no idea that Christianity would become the religion of its empire when they “created” it. Moreover, Christianity could not have been intentionally “weaponized” by Rome (except against Jews who rejected it) but, in fact, paradoxically ended up a weapon against Rome and its Paganism. Likewise, even if we take Skrbina’s thesis that Christianity was an attempt to rationally or irrationally persuade Jews away from Rome, how did Christianity then become the religion of Empire?

    Assuming that Skibina’s Roman conspiracy theory that Paul tried to influence Jews against Rome is flawed but it is plausible that Christianity was created by a human conspiracy, to what extent can we be certain that his theory does not leave room for divine providence in the Jesus story? Is it plausible that Christianity was an unintended consequence of fraud that pullulated (spread so as to be common) to all scattered Jewish communities and the entire world?

    Is it not possible that the Jesus story may have a theological origin anyway and that such unintended consequences might reflect the workings of God? This insight comes from agnostic historian Max Weber (following agnostic Johannes Goethe) who pointed out that humans are not capable of predicting the outcomes of their actions, no matter if people otherwise believe in a conspiracy. Conspiracy theories replace the uncertainty surrounding the outcome of world-changing events and ideologies and tend to be believed by those who are not in power. Even if Christianity was a plot to convert militant Jews, or a plot to persuade Gentiles away from Rome and back to Judaism, it later backfired and became the religion of the pagan Roman Empire. In other words, there may be room for providential coincidence in the Jesus story no matter if it was the outcome of fraud.

    It can be argued that Christianity brought about the birth of the individual from the tribe, ethnic group, family, clan, or social caste and the shift of law away from considering women and slaves as property; as well as resulting in the rise of rational Capitalism (see Max Weber, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism). If so, one might even say God had the last laugh (man plans, God laughs!). I warned that you would not like my review.

    Disclosure: I am a heterodox Christian who does not believe that faith requires the certainty of inerrant scriptures, historical evidence; an infallible pope; some rare, saintly mystical experience that other people never have; some secret knowledge; some therapeutic experience; some rational science, or participation in some progressive social change movement. I am equally dubious of those atheists who also seek certainty in historical relativism that would deny the human experience of religious transcendence and the mystery and awe of the unknowable (see Rudolph Otto, The Holy). For a skeptical overview of Christianity, one might read the works of Peter L. Berger: Questions of Faith: A Skeptical Affirmation of Christianity, 2003; The Heretical Imperative (1980) and A Rumor of Angels: Modern Society and the Rediscovery of the Supernatural (1970).

  269. “White people achieved a lot, and white people were Christian, therefore Christianity deserves the credit.”

    I’m so tired of hearing this lazy ignorant fallacy. To prove that statement, you need to examine the alternate reality where Europe maintained its native spiritual beliefs. It’s more likely that whites succeeded 尽管 of their Jew-invented mind poison, not owing to it.

    For generations now there have been more Christians in Africa than Europe. Where are these great Negro civilizations being created with the divine inspiration of Christ?

    • 谢谢: steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  270. “Madeleine Jana Korbel Albright loudly and clearly defined/justified western values by rationalizing extermination of 500K children from unapproved religion.”

    Notes: Sec. Albright, if I recall was Jewish. I think she justifying US policy. Whether that policy was reflecting of US values or western values and which one is cause for debate.

    I gave been trying to comprehend your comments in relation to the issues of the article and my own position to whether Jesus and subsequently christian faith and practice was a hoax created by Paul, the Apostle.

    Nothing in the article supports the proposition.

    • 回复: @aj54
  271. Robin Hood 说:
    @dr. rosenpenis

    According to Vinzent, the central figure of Christianity emerged into history sometime in the first half of the second century CE. Accordingly, Marcion’s presentation of the grand figure ‘Jesus the Nazarene’—completely adorned with his own written gospel (a thoroughly new genre)—shook the Roman Church, caused an immediate furore, and precipitated the hasty publication of several competing Catholic gospels, the ones today known under the names Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John. While I now do not believe that Marcion brought with him any original gospel as text, his concept of redemption through the cross (inherited apparently from Paul) was the critical element and mark a watershed moment in Christian history. We are now in a position to ask: (1) What religion(s) existed before that? (2) What (in particular) was the prior understanding of ‘Jesus’? (3) Did Marcion’s redeemer figure have antecedents and, if so, what were they? http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2016/04/08/part-4-the-new-synoptic-solution/

    Evidence shows that the first century knew only a spiritual Jesus (“Savior”). It was the second century that brought the Jesus of flesh—i.e. the doctrine of incarnation. This doctrine is, at its core, anti-Marcionite. The only way to reconcile the competing views (Jesus as spirit sent from a ‘foreign’ God, vs. Jesus of flesh who is also divine) is that Marcion espoused the Stage 2 christology described here. According to that christology, ‘Jesus’ is the divine spirit indwelling a fleshly human being. It was the human who suffered and died—not “Jesus” (a spirit). This is what we call “docetist,” and it was also Marcionite. But it is a composite view: the divine Jesus (of spirit) indwells the prophet (of flesh). This Stage 2 christology lasted through the time of Marcion. But the arch-heretic’s appearance precipitated a reaction and the emergence of the Catholic Stage 3 christology: Jesus of Nazareth. That figure appears in history only towards the middle of the second century—right after the activity of Marcion.

    Reflecting this understanding of the difference between first and second century religion, on this website I have placed this series of posts (of which this is “Part 4”) in “The second century” (cf. category list and Site map). Forthcoming posts will consider the purely spiritual Jesus, the ‘shape-shifting’ Jesus, the one that united with a saint and thus could surprisingly appear in the guise of any man or woman. This purely spiritual Jesus is abundantly attested in first century texts (including the epistles of “Paul”). In this proto-Christian theology, anyone could be ‘Jesus.’”—R.S.

  272. Excal 说:
    @anonymous

    三位一体的学说确实非常令人着迷。 您可能会尝试在一段时间内阅读可靠的资料,然后可以连贯地大声疾呼。

    因此,您,您的孩子以及他们的孩子中,绝大多数人注定要在此后的生活中感到不愉快。

    是的,然后比较上面的注释会很有趣。

  273. Odd Rabbit 说:

    有趣的文章
    Johannes Lehmann’s book supports the author of the article with amazing clarity. History Jesus fought against the power and hypocrisy of the Pharisees and was probably an Essene Zealot
    The Jesus Report
    约翰尼斯·莱曼(Johannes Lehmann)
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3539941-the-jesus-report

  274. Anon[196]• 免责声明 说:
    @James Forrestal

    It’s funny how you Jew-worshiping christfags parrot to the Leftist “-phobia/-phobe” slanderous terminology used by Jews and homosexuals and transsexuals and other assorted fruitcakes. Transphobia! Homophobia! Since Jewsus was a Rabbi, how about using the term Kikeophobia?

    • 回复: @James Forrestal
  275. Anon[196]• 免责声明 说:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    So you celebrate the Jewish child-sacrifice holiday Passover (Pascha.) As the Jew Testament says, “Christ our Passover lamb is sacrificed.” You’re a Jew. Only Jews hold Passover rites. That’s why the Vicar of Christ himself states, “Inside every Christian is a Jew.” There’s nothing blessed about your Jewish observance.

    • 回复: @SeekerofthePresence
  276. mcohen 说:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    no way Wayne’s world

    the only way Christianity can recover is to go back to the original teachings before the popes and before the statues and paganism.

    luckily a sort of “messiah” is on the way to spark the revival.israel is where it should be.the time has come.a seriously bright light will show the way.

  277. Whites’ with mouth-foaming eye-swivelling shrieking hatred on other whites, wacko pet theories, variants on this rather weak proposition timed for Orthodox festival …

    This comment section is kike heaven.

    Doubtless now being circulated in the Mossad’s HQ.

    To roars of laughter and approval.

    • 回复: @mcohen
  278. mcohen 说:
    @Arthur MacBride

    a macbride not a macgroom

    most sad has at least got a sense of jumour.

    hehehehehoho

  279. @Wayne Lusvardi

    If you are interested, Barberio wrote a book, ‘The Society of Moses:…..’, that posits a group who worked to develop the Church in Rome. I forget the full title off-hand but it should come up in any search.
    I happen to agree that Atwill got an important part of the story correct but that their is more to it and we may never know due to willful destruction of documents.

  280. @Wayne Lusvardi

    I appreciate Wayne L’s comments — at least it deals directly with the argument, unlike many of the comments here. I’m happy he finds my claim to be “plausible and non-contradictory”. However, I have some issues with his remarks:

    * Yes, I turn Atwill on his head. No one of any expertise has accepted Atwill’s thesis, incidentally.

    * No, you can’t make “any interpretation you want,” but I agree, there is a lot of flexibility in the scriptural message, such as it is. Part of this comes from the hoax, part from the many authors involved (Paul + Gospel writers), and part from later interpolations.

    * I don’t cherry pick, but I do try to marshal the best evidence for my case. And in the book, I do look at competing theories. Since Wayne (and nearly all commenters) have not read the book, they are in no position to make assertions.

    * Wayne lists 14 allegedly “pro-Roman” passages. I am familiar with all of these, and they do not refute the hoax thesis:

    ** points 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 are the only plausible pro-Roman passages (there are a couple others he didn’t mention) — yielding perhaps 7 or 8 in total, in the entire NT.

    ** by contrast, I have documented 50 anti-Roman passages, which are elaborated in my book.

    ** his points 3 (“give away wealth”), 11 (“give your life for Jesus”), and 14 (“set son against father, etc”) are in fact ANTI-Roman, not pro-Roman.

    ** his other points are irrelevant to the argument.

    A few other short comments:

    * My argument is not circular. Yes, I assume that Paul existed, along with the vast majority of scholars. The “mythical Paul” is so fringe that it’s not worth discussing.

    * My book is fully reason-based, not merely “supposition” and “selective evidence”. Again, read the actual book before commenting!

    * The Jesus Hoax was NOT to “persuade Jews” or to “influence Jews against Rome” — it was targeted EXCLUSIVELY to Gentiles/pagans. This is why Paul is the self-proclaimed “Apostle to the Gentiles”.

    * I am open to divine providence, and even God, of some form. (See my recent essay, “God as world-mind”). Nothing in the Jesus Hoax argues against (or for) God — that is an entirely separate discussion.

    To close: Read the book! And then we can have an informed discussion.

    • 回复: @Anonymous
  281. aandrews 说:

    “Skrbina argues that there is no convincing evidence for the truth of the Jesus story, either within the canonical New Testament or from non-Christian sources.”

    So…if Jesus didn’t exist, where did he come from?=

    Not the Impossible Faith
    by Richard Carrier
    ISBN-13:978 0557044641的

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  282. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:
    @David Skrbina

    “Paul existed” is a silly assertion. Obviously, the author of Paul existed. But this author is the only source for the life of Paul. And he tells us explicitly that he is NOT a reliable narrator; he tells us he is a confidence artist willing to say anything to gain converts. What evidence corroborates anything in Paul’s letters? Certainly not the book of Acts, which was created along with the Gospels to grease the transition from one version of Christianity to another.

    Atwill’s thesis is perhaps too focused and therefore prone to dismissal, but his analysis suffices to support a broader thesis that 1) the earliest Gospel used the writings of Josephus as source material 2) the Gospels are in fact a satire of Jewish beliefs and Jewish history. It’s like a Hollywood remake: Paul is OG Ghostbusters, and the Gospels are Tina Fey. Imagine if someone played those two movies back to back and called it a documentary.

    Of course the Gospels are pro Roman! Your examples of Jesus speaking anti Roman sentiments are actually examples of him speaking anti Mosaic sentiments. Gospel Jesus trashed the Mosaic law, despite his sweet assertions about fulfilling it. Remember that the Gospels tell us that Jesus Christ was only born in order to teach evil Jews the error of their ways. They tell us his teachings were never meant for anyone else. Thus you have to understand that Gospel Jesus is telling the Jews to give up their lives, money, families, and follow him into death.

    The heart of the satire is this: Jesus tells the Jews that unless they follow his advice (i.e. destroy themselves) then the Son of Man will return in judgment and destroy them personally. This is obviously a no win situation, yet Jesus presents it as deliverance to a heavenly kingdom. Jesus foretells the desolation of Jerusalem by Titus, revealing not that he is psychic, but that the Gospels were written with historical knowledge of those events. The events of the gospels are set forty years before the triumph of Titus for a reason. They justify and deify his triumph.

    The synoptics stress that Christian teachings are parables meant to be understood by the very few. The literal-historical level of the Gospels is meant to be understood by the masses. The literary-satirical level is meant to be understood by the elect. Then you will see that it is funny that this secret son of Zeus, who is mistaken by his contemporaries for the King of the Jews, should tell the Jews to forsake their beliefs and worship him and his father instead. You will see that Gospel Jesus is consistently tongue in cheek.

    Paul sold reformed Judaism to Gentiles, with no apparent knowledge of the destruction of the Temple. Then after the destruction of the Temple, someone reformed Paul and his vision of Jesus Christ, to justify Imperial rule over Judea. The Gospels take Paul’s teachings about sin and love and the legal fanaticism of the Temple dwellers and put them directly in Jesus’ mouth. Paul says Christianity offers no wisdom or miracles; Gospel Jesus deals freely in both. Any future discussion should hinge on the fact that Paul and the Gospels are really two different religions.

    • 回复: @David Skrbina

  283. An excellent documentary on the historicity of Christianity.

  284. FvS 说:
    @Alden

    在这些人群中,只有意大利人是白人。 它可能会争辩说,南部和中欧/东欧的白人将拯救我们。 但是,亚美尼亚人和波斯人与白人救赎无关。

    • 回复: @Not Raul
  285. @Anonymous

    Sure, technically, “someone” wrote the letters of Paul, and for sake of discussion, we generally agree that he was Paul of Tarsus. The forged NT letters show that someone else out there was also writing under his name, but that doesn’t materially change the argument. If Paul’s letters were written anywhere close to the standard dates (50-70AD), then it was by a Jew, promoting an early version of Christianity, prior to knowledge of the Gospels (since they aren’t mentioned). If “Paul” was one, or two, or more Jewish hoaxers, it doesn’t change my argument.

    And fyi, even the skeptic Richard Carrier accepts the historicity of Paul. And Paul was mentioned in Clement’s epistle to the Corinthians, circa mid-90s AD.

    Yes, the later Gospel writers had a different brand of Christianity, but it was basically “more of the same, with details”. The “two different religions” are just variations on the same theme, with the same intent and the same goal — undermining Roman rule and restoring the Jews to a position of power in Palestine, like they had prior to 63 BC, when the Romans came marching in.

    The “earliest Gospel” (i.e. Mark) used Josephus? Any evidence of that?

    Yes, all the NT writings are “satire” in the sense that (a) they are largely fictitious, (b) they were targeted at the gullible Gentile masses (“Apostle to the Gentiles”), and (c) they ridiculed and demeaned Roman rule, albeit in indirect ways. Again, I have documented 50 anti-Roman passages in my book. “Jesus” also was opposed to the Jewish pharisees who, in turn, opposed the “Jesus” myth because it was inconsistent with their own religious views. The elite Jews hated Paul, which is why he was abused and attacked by his own people.

    The true purpose of the letters and the Gospels was, of course, to save “Israel”, i.e. the Jews. In this sense, it was “meant” for them. But the target believers were the Gentile masses.

    The back-dated “prediction” of the destruction of the Temple was not to “justify and deify” Rome, but give credence to the hoax. “Jesus” made a prediction and, behold, it came true! Helps make the case for his divinity. (In reality, of course, it is easy to make predictions when the story is written after the fact.)

    It definitely helps your hoax to set events 40+ years before you write it. The Gospel forgers could write virtually anything, knowing that no one would be in a position (especially back then) to confirm or refute anything.

    Nothing about the NT justifies Roman rule, apart from a literal handful of passages (“Render to Caesar”, …). The 50 anti-Roman passages, and the general Christian worldview (God, heaven, hell, humility, pity, meekness, etc) are all profoundly anti-Roman.

    Bottom line: Read the book! And get the full case. Then make your critique.

  286. aj54 说:
    @EliteCommInc.

    it actually does not matter extremely much what one believes of Paul, only Yeshua/ Jesus’s existence and sacrifice matters

    • 回复: @Mevashir
  287. aj54 说:
    @David Skrbina

    Jesus/Yeshua said he came only to the lost sheep of Israel. Israel was the northern kingdom where the 10 lost tribes had resided. They were scattered into the Gentile nations. The Apostle to the Gentiles was on a mission to find the remnant of the lost tribes, as well as to bring to salvation, all the Father called. Jesus spent 2 days in Samaria, with the people of the woman at the well, and they were tribal remnants, they worshipped a deity in a way that the tribes had done, and Rabbi Yeshua instructed them in the correct way- which was still maintained in the southern kingdom of Judea; Yeshua was an observant Jew, which meant something different then. Yeshua fulfilled more than 200 prophecies in the Torah. Jesus is not defined by those who do not know Him or the Father. They are only defined by the members of the ecclesia, who were all called by YHVH, and are instructed by the Spirit.

  288. anonymous[589]• 免责声明 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Huh…The Catholic Priests pedo scandals died down ever since Benedict II Stepped down. and Francis I becmae Pope..Catholic churches, as all churches obendiently locked down…still today..Francis..embracing gay marriage, LGBT agenda, abortions, and REwriting the Catholic/Christian Bible. It is risky the maybe another Luther out there willing to start a Reformation II, …BUT how can christian ever be freed IF they dont accept understand that the ORIGINAL BIBLE never said “chosen people” “greater Israel”,,,never..by the way how can you scape mental slavery if you believe, accept, follow Books written, edited, published, REwritten, altered by JEWS..divien inspiration BS..

  289. Robin Hood 说:
    @aandrews

    The New Apologists – R. Joseph Hoffmann and friends on a rescue mission for the “Jesus of history” – Giving Carrier a good kicking – http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/newapologists.html

    The blogosphere has been enlivened by a potpourri of ego wars, withering sarcasm, aspersions about competence, intellect, comprehension, and honesty. The mythicist who has drawn most of the ire is Richard Carrier, a scholar whose scholarly prowess is matched by an equally impressive opinion of himself. …

    But what of the “historical Jesus”? Has the posse that has rushed to Ehrman’s side got a leg to stand on? For what it is worth, Hoffmann posted online three essays in what he called “The Jesus Process” on his blog, The New Oxonian.

    Richard Carrier, erstwhile editor of Internet Infidels, is a activist for atheism (he prefers the word “naturalism”). He’s also a blogger, historian and writer: Sense and Goodness without God (2005); Not the Impossible Faith (2009) – and most recently, Proving History (2012). At one time unconvinced by the arguments for mythicism, in July 2005 Carrier announced:

    “I have come to realize that mythicism is significantly more probably true than historicity. This I consider as radical a departure from my previous agnosticism as my agnosticism was from my previous historicism.”

    In recent times, Richard Carrier has argued for the use of Bayes’ Theorem as a way out of the befuddled mess that besets Jesus studies (Proving History: Bayes’s Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus). If Carrier could pull off this master stroke it would be as revolutionary as he claims.

    The Fisher (Hoffmann) retort to Carrier is to denounce the use of Bayes’s theorem as useless in deciding questions of historical probability. Any attempt to apply a simplistic mathematical formula like Bayes to composite historical texts is hopelessly flawed methodology, “one that fails to differentiate between primary and secondary traditions”. The literary record is way too complex for that sort of resolution, says Fisher.

    我们将不得不等到开利在预定的第二卷中透露了他对耶稣的详细对待,然后判断他是否将合理的假设输入了概率引擎。

    运营商取得历史性突破的几率? 可能性很小,我们可以肯定的是,数学解决方案不太可能吸引大众的注意。

    • 回复: @Kapyong
  290. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:
    @David Skrbina

    Many Gospel passages reflect tacit or explicit approval of Roman authority. To quote my friend gay troll:

    It becomes evident that Christ’s message, directed to the generation of evil Jews, is not one of love and mercy, but one of self-negation. The Jesus Christ of the Gospels came to destroy the Jews. He promised to return and physically do so. Jesus tells the Jews quite clearly “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:43) and “Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24). The nation he refers to is Rome. Titus fulfilled all of Christ’s prophecies one generation after Christ’s death. He encircled Jerusalem, beseiged and destroyed the Jews, left the temple with not one stone set upon another (see Mark 13:2). Jesus speaks approvingly of the Romans, saying “they which are accounted to rule over Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and their great ones exercise authority.” (Mark 10:42). The Jews worry that if people believe in Jesus, “the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation” (John 11:48).

    Again, the Gospels do not claim to be addressed to gentiles. Gospel Jesus says gentiles are like dogs who may get a lucky scrap from his table. He says his teachings are only for Jews. So it’s not that his teachings are designed to deceive or denigrate Roman culture. His teachings may be contrary to Roman culture; but insofar as his teachings praise privation, suffering, and death, they are contrary to *全部* culture. The fact that Gospel Christianity overran Rome is certainly important. But to claim that is was designed to do so is bollocks. Gospel Christianity states its intentions explicitly. It is an instruction manual for evil Jews. And since it was written after Jews had been defeated by Rome, it is not really an earnest set of advice, it is merely insult added to injury. Gospel Jesus approvingly describes the Son of Man as a thief of the Jewish covenant.

    As for whether Mark used Josephus as a source, who besides Josephus described the siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple? How else would Mark know about it?

  291. GeoPol 说: • 您的网站

    Without Christianity, human rights would not be possible as Judaism was an elitist-pharisee cult that manipulated its people because it was afraid of the Hellenic civilization that was threatening its moral doctrine. Christianity was easily carried out because of the Epicurus-Plato-neoPlatonic philosophies that contained similar virtues that were spread in the known world.

    • 回复: @Anon
  292. Not Raul 说:
    @FvS

    在这些人群中,只有意大利人是白人。 它可能会争辩说,南部和中欧/东欧的白人将拯救我们。 但是,亚美尼亚人和波斯人与白人救赎无关。

    来弗雷斯诺说。 我赌你。

  293. @Anon

    “You’re a Jew.”

    Unlike much of today’s politics, traditional Christianity is not identity-based.

    “There’s nothing blessed….”

    Look and listen again. Open up your heart.

    And pray to know the freedom and love of Christ.

    基督复活了-
    的确,他是复活了!

  294. Robin Hood 说:
    @Alfred

    Pharaonic religion fashions Jewish sacred ritual – Egypt and the Jewish Patriarchs – palpable nonsense! http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/egypt.htm

    The two primary books of the Old Testament – Genesis and Exodus – refer to ‘Pharaoh’ 155 times. Curiously, not once in either book is Pharaoh identified by name – and yet, in fact, the references are to many different pharaohs, across many centuries. The anomaly is all the more telling in that the holy books are not lacking in naming numerous sundry and incidental characters. For example, the grandmother, of the grandmother, of King Asa of Judah was Abishalom, should you be interested! (1 Kings 15.10). But this style of literature should be familiar to us all: “Once upon a time, in a land far away, was a bad king. And in the forest, David played … ”

    It’s called a Fairy Tale.

    • 回复: @Anon
  295. @Incitatus

    Anarchy and chaos are freedom of speech. The freedom for subversive ideologies to grow and fester. The reply by Thomasina is a spot-on example – the right to tell people not to wear masks, to form anti-mask and anti-vaccination movements. This is what America is – contrary to all Eurasian régimes, aside from England (even France is strict, see the Académie Française). Totally agree with the commenter commandor here – and don’t know what’s so bewildering to you about the USSR, it was precisely the American Christian call for individual freedom that subverted the Union and brought doom to Russia (Russia first, Soviet second, as with all things ideological – even Lysenko was a Russian product).

    As to the quotes – they are welcome, although it’s unfortunate that I cannot find the original available for free. I heard, Goebbels was among the more leftist folks in the NSDAP (and more open to friendship with Red Russia). Ironic, isn’t it? Or are you happy that that last great war took place?

    • 回复: @Thomasina
    , @Incitatus
  296. Anon[633]• 免责声明 说:
    @Robin Hood

    A foundation myth?

  297. Anon[847]• 免责声明 说:
    @GeoPol

    Christians have been telling the exact same lie as yours for hundreds of years; however, Thomas Jefferson thoroughly destroys it, as follows:

    If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons, to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians; and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are able to find among them no such act of adoption; we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.

    The Works of Thomas Jefferson (Autobiography, Anas, 1760-1770)
    https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/jefferson-the-works-vol-1-autobiography-anas-1760-1770#lf0054-01_head_028

  298. Anon[264]• 免责声明 说:
    @Lucy Lipinska

    Do you have a direct link to that article? I’d like to read it, but your URL links to a private school in Waco.

    • 回复: @Anon
  299. Anon[264]• 免责声明 说:
    @Anon

    Do you have a direct link to that article? I’d like to read it, but your URL links to a private school in Waco.

    Disregard, Lucy, I found the article, thanx.

  300. @aj54

    Paul created all of the formal doctrines of Christianity. Paul fashioned the message of Jesus into a global religion. So it matters a great deal whether you trust him or not.

  301. @anon

    The most comprehensive website about the Shroud of Turin is maintained by Barrie Schwortz, who is a Jew who practices Buddhism yet believes in the Shroud’s authenticity:

    http://www.shroud.com

    • 谢谢: SeekerofthePresence
  302. @storxian

    从理论上讲,我们所有的教堂,尤其是模仿者,都是唯物论者。

    您能解释一下这些术语吗? 谢谢!

    我认为您的评论很有见地,但我不会开玩笑地称阿奎那为白痴。 它只会破坏您的信誉。

  303. Thomasina 说:
    @Adûnâi

    “Anarchy and chaos are freedom of speech. The freedom for subversive ideologies to grow and fester. The reply by Thomasina is a spot-on example – the right to tell people not to wear masks, to form anti-mask and anti-vaccination movements. This is what America is.”

    No, lying, dictatorial governments, in league with corporations, bring forth anarchy and chaos. By refusing to consider the learned opinions of scores of frontline doctors and experts in order to reach a consensus, by stifling and censoring speech, by ruining careers, THEY unleash chaos. Unnecessary chaos.

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
  304. @ivegotrythm

    Very interesting comment. You omit the important fact that Augustine branded James-Yaqub’s approach as heresy and subjected his followers to severe persecution. Perhaps this explains how they might have morphed into Islam.

  305. Whatever else you think of him, Skrbina has been targeted by a Jewish supremacist organization that censors academics critical of Israel:
    https://canarymission.org/professor/David_Skrbina

    • 回复: @R2b
  306. Gapeseed 说:
    @The Soft Parade

    上帝确实是如何掩盖自己的足迹的。 这个世界的傻瓜说,他应该提供必要的经验证据,以说服这个世界的傻瓜。 因此,我很高兴他没有。

    一位全然His下出现的上帝会完全抹去自由的意志,这是爱的必要组成部分,使我们的狗比人更屈从。

  307. Seraphim 说:
    @Arthur MacBride

    Well, as you are aware, this is not my definition (it was taken from Wikipedia, of course) but of a Jew, Leo Rosten. The example of the ‘orphan’ is apposite in the discussion here. The Jews who killed Jesus are the victims!

  308. Kapyong 说:
    @Robin Hood

    最近的是《证明历史》(Proving History,2012年)。
    ...
    我们将不得不等到开利在预定的第二卷中透露了他对耶稣的详细对待,然后判断他是否将合理的假设输入了概率引擎。

    大概这是几年前写的。

    Carrier博士于2014年发表了他的主要著作:

    最近有一个较小的摘要:

    学者们争辩说,信徒们拒绝了他们,神话学家鼓掌了。

  309. Gapeseed 说:

    As a Catholic who has listened to and read Saint Paul’s letters for fifty years, I don’t really understand how one could doubt his sincerity. The overwhelming totality of his epistles are spiritual in nature and far too sublime to be some form of crypto-propaganda in favor of Rome or a Jewish sect. Indeed, his musings were the unfolding of the miraculous understanding of God’s new covenant whereby salvation was open for all and that God loves us as individuals.

    Also, Paul wrote mostly to Hellenized Jews because they proved to be the most easily converted due to common roots in monotheism, and acted as an administrator to keep sects in various (and mostly port) cities on the same page. That said, Paul understood that breaking with Jewish law was the way to convert Gentiles and the fulfillment of Jesus’s original command to preach to all nations. Christianity has common roots with Judaism but is starkly different, and no fair reading of Paul could conclude otherwise.

    • 同意: Mevashir
    • 回复: @Seraphim
    , @Robin Hood
  310. Robin Hood 说:

    来自外太空的耶稣! 价格评论
    通过理查德·开利(Richard Carrier)于 27 年 2020 月 XNUMX 日
    https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/17174

    当然,普莱斯非常喜欢这本书,因此提供了一个宣传宣传语,您可能会在未来的广告文案中看到:

    “It helps if you are omniscient, and Richard Carrier appears to be! The arguments and data supplied on behalf of Jesus Mythicism in his new book are astonishing—even if you thought you knew the debate pretty well! And if, like me, you are too stupid to understand Bayesian Probability, you will be relieved to see that the author has skipped it this time!”…

    我很感激普莱斯对来自外太空的耶稣的赞美和认可,并发现其中大部分内容具有启发性和有用性,并强烈推荐它。 我们的分歧很少,你们现在拥有自己需要的东西来决定在每种情况下你们应该站在我们谁一边。 但你当然应该自己阅读这本书,看看你能从中得到什么,以及如何从使用它的论点中受益,更好地理解神话中的耶稣假设,并更好地保护它免受那些犹豫不决的人的攻击。

    其他人也同意:

    “Carrier’s best, most engaging, and readable work yet. Don’t let the hilarious title fool you; this book is all business. Putting all the historical evidence for Jesus in the crucible, he burns away every apologetic argument and cuts through centuries of special pleading and pious fraud to demonstrate that the ‘Real Jesus’ is an unreal one.”

    ——大卫·菲茨杰拉德,《钉钉与耶稣:神话在行动》的作者

    和:

    “Jesus From Outer Space distills and simplifies, yet at the same time strengthens, core arguments in Carrier’s earlier work, On the Historicity of Jesus. Some, like me, will find the colloquial style jarring and some will find details to quibble over, but there is no gainsaying that the logic on every page is tight and the supporting evidence abounds. Carrier also addresses with forceful cogency some criticisms of his earlier arguments. Especially of note is the unrelenting demonstration of the circular reasoning and factual ignorance of several prominent critics of the Christ Myth hypothesis.”

    Neil Godfrey,Vridar 的作者兼编辑

    新材料一开始就清楚地解释了为什么这本书的“令人震惊的”标题实际上并没有过时或有争议,但事实上完全准确,上下文准确——即使耶稣存在。 这是正确的。 即使是历史学家也必须承认,最初的基督徒相信耶稣是他们当时所谓的外星人。 他并非像现代基督徒所相信的那样来自“天堂”作为另一个维度。 他真的是从外太空来的。 正如“天堂”所指的那样。 作为一个先存者,耶稣生活在星辰之中,就在土星轨道之外。 直到他降临——要么进入玛丽的子宫(正如历史学家所认为的第一批基督徒所相信的那样),要么进入撒旦和他的军团领域的月下紧身连衣裤(如最合理的选择所认为的那样)——然后被杀死并从死里复活,从字面上讲,回到外太空最远的地方,在他们的梦想和愿景中与下面的地球人交流。

    这其实是一种主流的共识观点。 我唯一改变的是,我用简单的英语表达了它,而不是把它隐藏在深奥的词汇和冗长的措辞后面。 本书的其余部分采用相同的方法。 它旨在让您震惊,让您意识到您一直在将不合时宜的现代假设引入古代证据,因此您可以开始以古代观众的方式看待事物。 只有这样,你才能真正理解如何从证据中解释和推论。

    • 回复: @C.T.
  311. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @TKK

    It fascinates and repulses me how the Western MSM so efficiently hides from the American public the sacrifice of cows and goats during Eid in present day, allowing them to hold onto their Sesame Street version of Islam.

    Lol! You scum of the earth are all vegans?!

    Your accursed kind only enjoys the genocidal sacrifice of humans, you pagan godless evil indulge in regularly. The western MSM hides that quite efficiently too.

    You worry about the agony of animals?! You should worry more about your own kind of rabid pagan godless human vermin.

    It fascinates and repulses me how the pagan godless (Christian, Hindu…) mind agonises about the utter spiritual garbage they believe in… triple deities, mangods – womangods – animalgods, the cannibalistic Eucharist, reincarnation of deities (father into son), the convoluted nonsense of the Trinity …

    Animals will not face Hell, but your kind of humanimals will. It will be an eternal agony. So, screw the animals, worry about yourselves.

    • 不同意: Mevashir
    • 回复: @Mevashir
    , @Mevashir
  312. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Trial by Wombat

    上帝之子的基督徒自我牺牲遵循了这些自然法则

    神之子? 您正在将人类特征应用于无限的力量。 你到处都是异教徒的垃圾!!

    –特别是基督教制度不要求ask祭或精心制作的圣殿建筑,也没有特别规定的世袭祭司班级。

    我在这里引用的所有句子中都嵌入了如此多的内容。 令人叹为观止。

    “Burnt offerings”? How about the pagan cannibalistic Eucharist? You pagan godless vermin don’t have “elaborate temple complexes”? No “specially ordained priestly classes”? Lol!

    它要求公正对待您周围的人,特别是对最少的人礼貌,而不是赞美最崇高的人。

    Whitevil supremacy? Glorification of your accursed godmen, clergy, popes, “saints”?

    您所谈论的是一种似乎没有人实践的宗教。

    我所知道的所有其他宗教,从人类到神灵,都拥有相同的公共祭祀建筑,

    You aren’t aware of the stink in your own backyard, and you are aware of “all other religions”? You entire accursed faith is based on a the “sacrifice” of a man, the purported “Son of God,” and you have the gall to wax eloquent about, “sacrificial architecture from man to the deity”?

    其目的主要是为了获得神职人员阶级的利益,并通过一个或多个神灵向国家提出服从–

    Don’t your godmen and “priestly class” profit by much? One of your Christian lowlife godmen even begged for a private airplane! Which parallel universe do you live in? Lol!

    而在基督教中,上帝牺牲了自己的儿子,以受益于他较小的创造物,从而使他们摆脱了他本人已经建立的自然系统的逾期未决的审判。

    Yes, “lesser creations” who are very much “in-his-image.”

    Once again… all of it, PAGAN GARBAGE!!!

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
    , @Mevashir
  313. Wielgus 说:
    @Yukon Jack

    I very much doubt this. The Romans, relatively tolerant of religions, disliked Judaism and disliked Christianity even more, although their persecution of Christians was intermittent and often local when it happened.

  314. Gapeseed 说:
    @anonymous

    Be careful there when speaking about Jesus, a prophet of Islam.

  315. @anonymous

    Dear zealous Muslim friend,

    Please check out the following link. It is an online 800-page commentary discussing the many deviations and discrepancies between the Quran and the Bible. If you email me I can send you a PDF copy Inshallah:
    https://mevashir.home.blog/2019/12/19/korn-quran-crown-קרן-קוראן-קורן/
    http://yahuwallah.blogspot.com/2016/11/blog-post.html?m=1

    The true hell is awaiting those who willfully have altered God’s Divine text for ulterior motives. In fact their hell is already here on Earth. That’s why so many Muslims stream out of the Middle East coming to the Christian West seeking better lives safety and salvation. You’re voting with your feet my friend!

    While you are here I hope you will truthfully investigate our faith. You can join that as well as you join with our material blessings we have to offer.

    萨拉姆

  316. @anonymous

    Consider this Habibi. The Quran calls God Rahman waRahim: Gracious and Merciful. But the mass Muslim Exodus from corrupt Middle Eastern countries proves that these qualities of grace and mercy are not found among Muslim people. These qualities you know are better found in the Christian West. That’s because while your religion understands the qualities of God it does not know how to translate them into its human subjects. Only Christianity has been able to succeed in this process due to the powerful example of the God-Man Jesus Christ! As the saying goes, he became human to teach us how to become Divine.

    Ask yourself why the 99 name-qualities of God mentioned in this beautiful Nasheed cannot be found among Muslims but you have to search for them in the inhabitants of the Christian West!

  317. Seraphim 说:
    @Gapeseed

    One couldn’t agree more with what you say about Saint Paul. But one couldn’t emphasize enough that his ‘miraculous understanding of God’s new covenant’ was the direct result of his miraculous encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, when the Christ Himself appointed him ‘Apostle to the Gentiles’ for ‘he was a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake’. He was the man ‘caught up to the third heaven (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)’ the man ‘caught up into paradise, where he heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter’.
    His were not ‘musings’, but proclamations of the Good News to the whole world. And this is why he is slandered with such passion by the people who hate the Christ.

    • 同意: Mevashir, Katrinka, R2b
    • 谢谢: Gapeseed
  318. Anon[307]• 免责声明 说:
    @G. Poulin

    How silly to claim that words don’t mean what they say and that “clearly” they are mere metaphors meaning something else, and then to insult and dismiss anyone who might disagree as prejudiced and presumptuous. These are the rhetorical tools of those who are good at wrecking debates rather than debating honestly.

  319. David Skrbina: “If “Paul” was one, or two, or more Jewish hoaxers, it doesn’t change my argument. And fyi, even the skeptic Richard Carrier accepts the historicity of Paul.”

    There is also an argument made that Paul and Jesus were the same man. Evidently many early sources indicate that both were of similar appearance — hunchbacked, balding, dwarfish, and ugly, much like the cartoon Jew of caricature. If that argument is correct, it would explain a lot. What do you think of it?

    https://www.riaanbooysen.com/barbelo/physical-appearances-jesus-and-paul

    • 回复: @David Skrbina
    , @Seraphim
  320. C.T. 说: • 您的网站
    @Robin Hood

    在这里查看我对 Carrier 极其重要的工作的总结:

    https://chechar.wordpress.com/category/on-the-historicity-of-jesus-book/

    当然,关于那个虚构人物耶稣的最重要的书。

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  321. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    The New Testament letters – 1. Bold, Catholic and Fake epistles! A compendium of fraud! https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/epistles1.htm

    Many scholars attempt “chronologies” of the life of Paul, yet Acts of the Apostles is a naive fantasy and the Pauline letters of themselves provide few clues in time or place. Bringing Paul’s epistles seamlessly into the story of the church proves to be an impossible task, for collectively the letters offer no continuous narrative and no one has any real idea of the sequence of their composition. Hence the enduring “uncertainty” in the origin of the letters and their stark incompatibility with the “authorised” early history of the faith.

    Pious reflection and wishful thinking assemble the epistles into the “life” of the apostle, delicately extracting a few perceived “facts” from the embarrassing mythology of Acts, as pegs on which to hang the garments. Yet the epistles are themselves full of hyperbole, the inane and the wondrous. Paul, no less than Peter, struts across a stage that exists only in the dreams of those who would speak in his name and rule with his authority. Myth is not truth. …

    Several of the New Testament epistles are known as “Catholic” because there is no pretense that they are correspondence to an individual or even an individual church. They are addressed to the “whole church”. Many authorities regard these seven works as “pseudepigraphical” (in plain English, fake). Put aside the distorting lens of Christian faith and it becomes obvious why: they belong in that period of fractious debate that characterised Christianity of the 2nd not the 1st century.

    Setting aside the seven dubious “Catholic” items, the fourteen remaining letters are said to be the work of Paul. Surely, we have something genuine here?

    Well, we better make that thirteen. Nobody with any knowledge at all about the anonymous “Hebrews” subscribes to the ungrounded “tradition” that Hebrews is Paul’s handiwork.

    In fact, even Evangelicals welcome the reassignment of Hebrews to another hand. In their impoverished logic it gives them “another witness” to Jesus! …

    What, then, of the half-dozen “core” Pauline letters? Surely they at least are “authentic”?

    实际上 …

    • 不同意: Gapeseed
  322. Robin Hood 说:

    New Testament letters – 2. The bogus “authentic” Pauline epistles. A compendium of fraud! https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/epistles2.htm

    The Six “Authentic” Pauline epistles?

    With 15 letters demonstrably fake and with the practice of pseudepigraphy clearly at the heart of the entire corpus of the New Testament, caution is advised before accepting the remainder of the epistles as genuine.

    But it is possible that half a dozen authentic letters keep company with a collection of fakes. But are they authentic? …

    但为什么?

    Why on earth would the true writer (or writers) want to falsely attribute authorship? And if “pseudepigraphical” like the rest of the epistles, who was the phantom-like figure “Paul”? And why was his name reverentially attached to a body of theological writings so crucial to the canon and to making sense of the mythical life and death of Jesus Christ?

    Without the “field correspondence”, the Jesus saga might be an entertaining tale but it would have floated free of the priesthood, a class of deceivers and deluded fools who necessarily made special claim to the legacy of the dying/resurrected godman. Their self-chosen mission was to officiate the awesome power of the Lord in this world and to stand as gatekeepers on the next, dispensing promises of life eternal or curses of everlasting torment.

    In the fierce competition of 2nd century Christ-cults, historicizing of the godman precipitated a scramble for Christ bestowed succession. If Jesus of Nazareth had lived, to whom indeed had his mantle of earthly authority fallen? The Jewish-Christians, or Ebionites, of Jerusalem made claim to kinship: they were nothing less than the descendents of the Lord (and had not Jesus indeed had brothers and sisters?).

    The Catholics in Rome staked their claim on Peter, designated “rock” upon which the saviour would build his church.

    But another Gentile church contended with the Catholics: the Marcionites, a sect of Jesus enthusiasts far less accommodating of “Jewish ways” than their rivals. Marcion’s authority, as he himself claimed, rested on an apostle even greater than Rome’s St. Peter, on an apostle who had received his remit directly from the risen Christ. Miraculously, it was Marcion himself who had first “found” the epistles of Paul, letters that it seems had remained curiously forgotten for a century. Marcion, the heretic, assembled a canon even earlier than the Muratori, with ten epistles attributed to Paul and a simple Jesus tale that had a kinship to Luke’s gospel. It was the first “New Testament”. The Catholics responded and in the second half of the 2nd century, “epistles” – some under the name of Paul, others under the names “Ignatius”, “Peter” etc. – proliferated.

    We know, of course, that the Catholics prevailed over their opponents. In the formulation of a single, universal, Catholic dogma, Paul, the erstwhile hero of the heretics, was written into the yarn called Acts of the Apostles, shorn of much of his self-proclaimed superiority and now with the Holy Spirit guiding his hand. When an approved canon was finally determined, the Pauline letters, assembled for lack of any known chronology by length, were tucked in behind Acts, implying an historical sequence utterly unsupported by any reality.

    In short, the claims for a 1st century superstar of missionary tours and Christological discourse, are fraudulent – or are, as they say, “inauthentic”. Paul, like his divine guide and mentor Jesus, never existed.

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  323. Incitatus 说:
    @Adûnâi

    “Anarchy and chaos are freedom of speech.”

    完全不同意。

    Freedom of speech is the right to express one’s views, to enlist support or peacefully address dissent, to attempt conversion or compromise. It’s not threatening or coercive, not a license to broadcast calumny or falsehood.

    Anarchy is tossing a spanner in the works to see what happens, ‘speech’ (and civic order) be dammed. Usually by disaffected drop-outs (‘hooligans’ in Russia?) that contribute little or nothing to society, who want to destroy society.

    ‘Freedom of speech’ doesn’t compel truthful expression.

    Consider subpoenaed Hindenburg’s self-serving testimony 18 Nov 1919 before a Reichstag Commission seeking to establish causes of WW1 defeat. He refused to answer questions and read a prepared statement (approved by Ludendorff) blaming defeat on a treasonous home front. Thus was the self-serving Dolchstoßlegende born, absolving blockhead Wilhelm II and his equally incompetent General Staff of any/all blame for a war they launched, holding them harmless for killing millions (including their countrymen). Thus were Germans (and the rest of the world) condemned to WW2.

    The obvious current parallel is Deadbeat Loser Donald J. Trump’s poisonous “Big Lie” on his failed 2020 election. He’s the new Hindenburg. Does pal Vlad Putin approve?

    ‘Free speech’ brings an obligation to confront lies, to keep the forum (discourse) honest. Doesn’t always happen. Lies oft spread like cancer, mutate into the unassailable platitudes and phony advocacy masking criminality. Witness:

    “the right to tell people not to wear masks, to form anti-mask and anti-vaccination movements. This is what America is – contrary to all Eurasian régimes, aside from England (even France is strict, see the Académie Française).”

    And what would you prefer? Be specific. Spare no details.

    “Totally agree with the commenter commandor”

    Are you referring to his:

    “Those quotes of Reichsminister für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda Joseph Goebbels are absolutely amazing”?

    Good luck with cheap baiting.

    “are you happy that that last great war took place?”

    Indeed no. Several relatives had the misfortune to fight in it. None were enthusiastic. Kind of like having cancer surgery. Best get through it. Like grandparents and uncles who served WW1, 1860, 1812, 1775 etc. From 1620.

    Questions remain. Why should the US have bailed-out the USSR? Wasn’t Stalin Hitler’s bosom ally in 1939? Helping Germany conquer most of Europe”? So what if it was bitten by the viper it nursed? Why should America care?

    Stalin’s brave decision to declare war on Japan 8 August 1945 (2 days after Hiroshima) is pretty revealing. Tell us how many Soviets were killed defeating Imperial Japan.

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
    , @Anonymous
  324. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Your blather is unimpressive.

    I will sum up my response by noting the cliche that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.

    In a world of fragile papyrus shipped largely via the Mediterranean Sea, the lack of “source” documents is utterly unsurprising. As I noted, Paul acted largely as an administrator, writing to the port cities through which Christianity spread. Each port city contained a community of Christians, who would take his communications and then immediately copy them, producing other copies to be shared with other communities. Considering the slow speeds by which such communiques could be made and news could be spread, the missives were long, expounding on theology and addressing specific concerns unique to his recipients but also universal in nature. That copies may have been found with the Acts is hot air shedding no light.

    If you took the time to actually read Paul’s missives, you would note the lack of anything within that could be used for political advantage, as you seem to imply. These were theological expositions from a man touched by God.

    But let’s approach this from another angle. Ask yourself, how did these disparate Churches share a common faith largely without splintering? How did they maintain a common theology? It would have taken an exceptionally gifted man, a man with profound insights and skill, and perhaps more importantly, a man of unimpeachable credentials and gravitas to sway the Churches of various cities to stay disciplined and keep the common Faith. Paul was that man and was known to be that man. Not only did Saint Paul exist, he had to exist.

    • 谢谢: SeekerofthePresence
    • 回复: @Rocha
    , @Robin Hood
    , @Robin Hood
  325. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Never heard a serious claim that Paul was Jesus. Not even sure what that means. Was Paul writing about himself? Or were others treating the same man as two different people? Doesn’t make sense.

    But of course, if both were historical men (Jews), then naturally they would share common Jewish physiology: short, homely, big nose, etc. The modern “beautiful Jesus” image is yet another layer of the hoax; if he existed, he certainly didn’t look like that!

    Bear in mind: I am formally neutral if an historical Jesus existed or not. I suspect he did, because a hoax works much better if based on a real individual — one who really got crucified (but never ‘rose’) — rather than on a nonexistent fiction. Thus it is likely that Jesus the man lived, and died. But if not, nothing much changes in my hoax theory. All the “important” stuff was still a lie, and still passed off as truth.

    @Robin Hood (and others) insist that Paul never existed, and was a mid-2nd century invention of Marcion. But the First Epistle of Clement mentions Paul, and was likely written in the 90s AD. Ignatius’ Epistle to the Romans also mentions Paul, and probably dates to ca. 105 AD. Marcion could not have constructed a Paul myth at those early dates. Hence it is likely that Paul was an historical person.

    All my commenter-critics overlook that facts that Paul’s letters were written (by consensus) between 20 and 40 years after the crucifixion, and the 4 Gospels were written (by consensus) between 40 and 70 years after. And they overlook that NOTHING on “Jesus” was written (as far as we know) before, during, or immediately after, or for two decades after, the crucifixion. This is virtually impossible, if the Biblical Jesus story were true.

    Hence the most logical conclusion is that the Jesus events did NOT happen — which is obvious anyway, considering the crazy miracle stories. But we know that several later individuals (Jews) wrote documents as if they were true, and passed them off to the masses as truth. I’m sorry, this is the definition of a hoax. And they did it for personal gain — hence, a malicious hoax.

    To argue otherwise would be to completely rewrite acknowledged history, with little or no evidence in your favor. Thus: a hoax it is.

  326. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:
    @David Skrbina

    All my commenter-critics overlook that facts that Paul’s letters were written (by consensus) between 20 and 40 years after the crucifixion, and the 4 Gospels were written (by consensus) between 40 and 70 years after.

    There was no crucifixion. If Paul was writing after such an event, why does he not offer any historical detail? He plainly says that Jesus lowered himself from heaven and died on a stake at the hands of “archons”. That’s the most explicit history that Paul can offer. As Richard Carrier notes, lowered from heaven does not necessarily mean all the way to Earth, as ancient astronomers imagined the universe to consist of concentric celestial spheres. Paul even includes a reference to the “third heaven”.

    One cannot overemphasize the fact that Paul openly declares himself to be a confidence artist. It makes no sense to think that Paul stripped a historical event of all historical detail and used that as a basis for his new creed. Instead we must accept that Paul *gave birth to Jesus Christ*. Again, Paul openly articulates this, saying that he is in the pains of childbirth. He also declares that he has laid the very foundation of Christianity and no other foundation may be laid beside it. He says anyone who builds on his foundation will have their work tested by fire.

    It may be silly to argue that Paul and Jesus were the same person, unless you consider that Paul projected Jesus Christ out of his own tortured psyche (and his copy of the Septuagint), which is an easy thesis to support. Note that Paul uses the body as a metaphor for the Christian church; conversely he may be using the church as a metaphor for his own body. Paul suffers as much as Christ, he kvetches about how his body is an abortion or miscarriage, with a constant thorn in his flesh to keep him “humble”. Christ’s suffering on the stake is an obvious projection of Paul’s own agony; it is a way to find meaning and redemption in suffering.

    Your “consensual” dates conveniently allow Paul and Mark to exist back to back, as if Paul wrote in the year 69 and Mark in the year 71. Obviously the consensus is that Paul was written before the destruction of the Temple in the year 70, and Mark was written after. But your thesis that there is continuity between the motives of Paul and the motives of Mark is utterly contradicted by these texts. Mark is a kind of inversion of Paul. Actually, it’s an extroversion of Paul. It puts Paul’s philosophy in Jesus’s mouth. So while it is wrong to say that these two were the same person, it is not inaccurate to say they are the same .

    • 回复: @Laurent Guyénot
  327. Seraphim 说:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    This ‘argument’ is not correct. Jesus did not look like Paul. We know how Jesus looked like from the image on the Shroud of Turin (1.70-1.88 m, i.e. a tall and muscular man) and on the Acheropita icon (the Edessa image, the Mandylion) from icons in the catacombs of Rome. We know also how Paul looked like from his oldest image in the catacomb of Tecla (together with the images of Peter, Andrew and John) all dated at the latest in the IVth century. In any case they did not look like the caricatures of Jews of ‘Der Sturmer’!
    There is no Josephus Flavius’ book called ‘Halosis’. The reference is probably to the ‘Jewish War’/’Bellum Judaicum’/Φλαυίου Ἰωσήπου ἱστορία Ἰουδαϊκοῦ πολέμου πρὸς Ῥωμαίους βιβλία.
    But the only references of Josephus to Jesus are in another book ‘Antiquities of the Jews’: (Book 18.3.3 – (the Testimonium Flavianum) and Book 20.9.1 – (‘ the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James’) and he does not speak a word about his physical appearance.
    ‘Arguments’ based on shoddy scholarship and defective ‘logic’ have no value whatsoever

    • 同意: Gapeseed
    • 谢谢: SeekerofthePresence
  328. @Incitatus

    > “It’s not threatening or coercive, not a license to broadcast calumny or falsehood.”

    Who determines the falsehood? It’s like with democracy – Socialists do not recognise as such those régimes where the dictatorship of the proletariat under the guiding party is not established.

    > “Usually by disaffected drop-outs (‘hooligans’ in Russia?)…”

    Russian anarchy mostly stems from the traitorous liberals. The homophobes are usually employed, tired and apolitical. See the Anti-Maidan in Ukraine – it’s the hysterical pro-Western Christians who are full of vigour, whereas normal people merely want to be left alone. The same with gamers in America. The losing right.

    > “Lies oft spread like cancer, mutate into the unassailable platitudes and phony advocacy masking criminality.”

    There are no true ideas – only the victorious and the vanquished. The existence of Christianity proves it – it allowed no forum for debate, and it did not win a debate. It simply demolished the opposition. So much so that the European man still fear to question it like a dog branded with hot iron.

    > “And what would you prefer? Be specific. Spare no details.”

    I would prefer AOC to be President of the USA and the remaining and diminishing Whites disarmed. Freedom of speech is a disgusting illusion of the clearly Christian system, and I eagerly await its final form.

    > “None were enthusiastic. Kind of like having cancer surgery. Best get through it.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Village_(Dugway_Proving_Ground)

    For the sake of improving USAAF firebombing capabilities, a mock-up German Village was built up and repeatedly burned down. It contained full-scale replicas of German residential homes.

    There were plenty of people on the ground who liked it up close. Enthusiasm is exactly what it’s called, religious fervour.

    > “Why should the US have bailed-out the USSR? Wasn’t Stalin Hitler’s bosom ally in 1939? Helping Germany conquer most of Europe”? So what if it was bitten by the viper it nursed? Why should America care?”

    Now this is surprising to me, Incitatus. I thought you wouldn’t stoop so low. Everyone knows that both sides had been courting Hitler. And still quite many in the East know that it was Stalin who was cucked out of helping Prague when the Westerners sold the Czechs in Munich. The Red Army gave a guarantee to aid Czechoslovakia – but neither Romania nor Poland granted access, and the Anglo-French were happy to betray their ally – and now you have the gall to blame the USSR?

    America should have helped Germany, their racial brethren, of course. And even from a geopolitical standpoint, a Eurasia divided among Germany, England and Italy might have been better than a single Soviet Empire (Christian clown culture which led to its farcical downfall aside).

    • 回复: @Yoska Ruslo
    , @Incitatus
  329. @Incitatus

    √ “No matter. Don’t worry about us. We’ll figure it out. We always have.”

    Americans started yesterday, half of their brief history being ruled by Jewes, you delusional monkey

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  330. @Adûnâi

    are you autistic? Wasting time with anglos the irredeemable liberals.
    Apart from very small loud highly xenophobic powerless Right Wing sections this people are liberals to the core, always have been.
    Not all Westerners, Christians or not, are the same, there are huge differences in mentality even in a single country like Italy for example. A Greek is not a Swede. an anglo is not a German..

    Germany is currently very liberal yes. but they had to kill 8 million of them, bomb the country into a pile of rubble and relentless brainwashing ever since to transform them in democrats and liberals.

    Anglos are different from everyone in Europe, they only expelled the Jews under the guidance of Rome in 1290 and as soon as they severed the ties with Rome the Jews not to only came back but returned as the elite, and have been the elite ever since.
    By far the most famous warrior in the British Islands in the antiquity was the General Boudicca, a dumb female, just to give an idea of how liberal they were, are, and will be til extinction
    And the British people are genetically basically the same from 2 millenna ago til the 1950s when a real replacement started led by their (((betters))).

    You don’t take this liberal biotrash seriously you just troll them

    • 同意: commandor
    • 回复: @Adûnâi
  331. Robin Hood 说:
    @David Skrbina

    Witness creation programme. “Ignatius and Polycarp” – Twin stars in the Christian dreamscape. https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ignatius.html

    “There is nothing more abominable than that trash which is circulated under the name of Ignatius.”
    – John Calvin, Institutes of the Reformer of Geneva.

    Like the twin stars Castor and Pollux, two martyred saints shine brightly in the firmament of the early Christian dreamscape – Ignatius Theophorus (“God bearer”) and Polycarp (“Many fruits”).

    Purportedly, one was bishop of Antioch, the centre of Christianity in Roman Syria. The other bishop of Smyrna, the centre of Christianity in Roman Asia. Together they span the void that exists between a Palestinian pageant set in the mid-years of the 1st century and the reality of a Church fabricating a noble history a century and a half later.

    Each luminary lived to a great age after a forty-year episcopate characterized by absolutely nothing worthy of a comment in any religious or secular history. At the close of their purported lives each made a highly symbolic journey to Rome, the prelude to a glorious and theatrical martyrdom that would echo down the ages.

    Neither was an original mind, able to expatiate on “Christology” or the Divine Will. On the contrary, both were – surprisingly – dogmatic “Catholics” in an age when the future orthodoxy was indiscernible within a panoply of contending sun-god cults. These heroes of the faith exist solely through fake “letters” and bogus martyrologies, the former prosaic and devoid of any memorable sentiment, the latter utterly fantastic and unworldly. …

    The “life” of Ignatius presents us with a remarkable paradox: the eminence of an unknown bishop. Only an alleged martyrdom and a collection of letters purportedly written on his final journey lifts “Ignatius” from the void. Even his martyrdom, in fact, is never detailed but only anticipated.

    The letters of Ignatius, however, were faithfully preserved – an oddity in itself if they really belong to a time of apocalyptic anticipation and the world “passing away”. From them the early church constructed the martyr’s “final journey” and added a glorious finale in the Colosseum at Rome. More importantly, the epistles of Ignatius stand as crucial witness to the claims of the Catholic Church to an apostolic foundation and a purity of its faith.

    After apparently some forty years of pastoral service, with not a whisper of episcopal preeminence, Ignatius blazed into glory, casting his radiance across the eastern Roman empire. Remarkably, in the interlude between condemnation and execution, Ignatius was able to set down for posterity all the essential dogmas of Catholicism. Indeed, at a time when the epistles of Paul were “unknown” it seems a collection of Ignatian letters was a prized possession (Polycarp to the Philippians, 13), even before the bishop “won” his cherished martyr’s crown.

    Curiously, the “persecution” that sealed Ignatius’ fate elicits scarcely a word from the martyr-elect. Ad nauseam he speaks of his impending execution as a “reward”, a “prize” a “great joy”. He says nothing of other members of his Antiochian church (did no one else suffer?) or of the circumstances of his trial. The primary target in every letter (with the exception of Romans) is heresy – which clearly suggests composition at a time, not of persecution, but of fierce doctrinal challenge. …

    4th century Eusebius was the first to write explicitly of the “martyrdom of Ignatius” and in the 5th century, four centuries after the supposed martyrdom, a set of bones, purported to be those of Ignatius, were installed in the Temple of Fortune, in Rome, by emperor Theodosius II. But it was not until the 10th century that the Martyrium Ignatii appeared, as an addendum to the Codex Colbertinus, a Latin manuscript of the Bible. Martyrium Ignatii masquerades as an eyewitness account written by Ignatius’ travelling companions, Philo of Cilicia and Rheus Agathopous, a Syrian. It is in this document that we find the colourful detail, including the dialogue with Trajan and the gathering of the remains of Ignatius and their honorary transport back to Antioch – recorded almost a thousand years after the supposed events.

    All part of the fun …

    • 不同意: Gapeseed
  332. Robin Hood 说:
    @David Skrbina

    “Consensual dates” ? The Jesus Parade is Always in Town – Christian ‘Apologetics’ – Fundamentally Flawed. Logical fallacies and semantic trickery are the very essence of Christian apologetics, exploiting a general ignorance of science and responding to the desire for quick-fix salvation and something easy on the brain cells. https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/circus.html

    2. The “Belief of Others is Evidence” Argument

    Having marshalled cut-out characters from the story itself as “witnesses”, the suspect logic continues by bringing on as additional “witnesses” the massed ranks of the brethren – well, a few isolated individuals actually.

    Early Christians are themselves presented as “evidence.” Thus the recorded beliefs of Church Fathers such as Ignatius, bishop of Antioch (50-115?), become the lynchpin of Roman Catholicism’s claim for world mastery. In an impressively entertaining tale of martyrdom and celebrity tour, the episcopal superstar gets sentenced to wild beasts by the dastardly Emperor Trajan (in truth, a famously benign ruler).

    We are asked to believe that, at a time when all of Rome’s resources were being assembled for a war against Parthia, the emperor eschewed the perfectly serviceable local arena for Ignatius’s execution and instead, assigned a troop of guards to traipse their captive the long way round the eastern empire and back to Rome. The protracted journey afforded Ignatius the opportunity to meet and greet Christian worthies every step of the way. Along the journey, Ignatius (who is quite insistent upon his own martyrdom) writes 15 letters of a truly miraculous nature. They are addressed to such diverse notaries as the Virgin Mary and a bishop not even born at the time of Ignatius’s death!

    The importance of the letters is not historical veracity but Catholic dogma. Ignatius is turned into the mouthpiece of 4th century Orthodoxy, back-dated into a 2nd century proselytising fantasy. The obliging bishop warns the brethren of all-manner of “heresies” and urges rigid obedience of their bishops.

    In the fable in which he is made bishop by the apostles themselves and then himself instructs bishop Polycarp of Smyrna (died 166?), Ignatius is made the “missing link” between the Palestinian pageant and the reality of Catholic episcopal authority. The first Roman cleric to identify himself as bishop – Anicetus (156-166) – did so in correspondence with Polycarp.

    Similarly, Flavius Clements (?150-216) bishop of Alexandria, Justin (such a meritorious “martyr” it becomes part of his name), and Gallic bishop Irenaeus are selectively quoted, as if their beliefs had some special quality in proving the life and death of someone a century or more before their own time.

    Simply put, evidence of belief is not evidence of reality – and if that line of argument had any validity it would better validate the 3000 plus years of Egyptian and Indian deities, and the almost as long-lived Gods of Greece and northern Europe!

    The deceit is continued into the present day, with testimony from “expert believers” showcased as evidence for a godman whose existence was questioned even in the 2nd century. Testimony from equally expert non-believers, of course, is not forthcoming. …

    Deceiving the Unsophisticated by Trickery

    The Apologists have no store of unknown Jesus artifacts, no cache of Jesus’s secret memoirs– though they do have shrewd allies in the relic-fabrication industry, so this may change! Rather, their circus tent is filled with nothing more substantial than subterfuge and suspect logic. What holds it all together is that universal super glue – Faith.

    The parade of flimflam and clownish knockabout would be a cause for merriment and laughter were it not for the sobering thought that this is as ‘rational’ as some Christians get. Heaven help us if they were ever to take over the government.

    In the prelude to the Dark Ages the original Christian Apologists engaged in a similar pseudo-rational debate with the Greek philosophers, who at first ignored the Christians and subsequently lampooned them as fools. But within three generations the fanatics of Christ had taken over the Roman Empire and the laughing stopped.

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  333. Robin Hood 说:
    @David Skrbina

    The Assortment of Early Christian Belief – Primitive Christianity never knew a human Jesus! https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/beginnings.html#clementrome

    Tellingly, the handful of late 1st century / early 2nd century writers (Paul, Clement, Barnabas, Papias) did not quote Jesus at all. They say nothing, or next to nothing, of humanoid “Jesus actions” or miracles. The virgin-born, miracle-working, godman of later legend was unknown to them. When their fantasy required the endorsement of higher authority they turned instead to Jewish scripture, to the patriarchs, the prophets and the supposed utterances of the Jewish God himself. …

    Clement of Rome” – Nothing is known of the life or death of “Saint” Clement (often grandly, if anachronistically, styled either first, second, third or fourth ‘pope’!).

    5th century fantasy invented a colourful martyrdom for the guy, involving drowning in the Black Sea with an anchor round his neck and a sub-marine shrine built by angels. The fable probably owed much to a confusion with his namesake, Titus Flavius Clemens, a consul executed by Emperor Domitian. The confusion is further compounded by the common assumption that Clement’s reference to the “recent misfortunes” of the Roman Church relates to a supposed persecution instigated by Domitian. But this “persecution” is bogus and Clement actually makes no mention of martyrdom even when it refers to the deaths of Peter and Paul.

    Whoever he really was, Clement is credited with the most important Christian text outside the New Testament – his First Epistle, a document which is primarily concerned with remonstrating with the brethren in Corinth who had deposed their presbyters. (Perhaps too readily they had seen through the priestly fraud!)

    Examined closely, the epistle is clearly less of a genuine letter and more a tract on maintaining communal discipline and priestly authority. It attributes to the Apostles themselves foreknowledge of career rivalry among Christians – who consequently institute “Apostolic succession” to maintain the peace of the Church (Clement 44). This alone suggests a 2nd century date.

    The epistle, important as it is in the gathering up of papal authority, says nothing of an historical Jesus. Its fancies include reference to the “500-year-old phoenix bird”.

    “Clement” (or, rather, the coterie of pseudonymous fraudsters) authored further nonsense throughout the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries, notably the Clementine Recognitions.

    Clement: Proof of the Resurrection – rebirth of the Phoenix!

    There are only two extant Greek texts of 1 Clement. The oldest is in Codex Alexandrinus, which dates to the 5th century.

    “Let us understand, dearly beloved, how the Master continually showeth unto us the resurrection that shall be hereafter …

    Let us consider the marvellous sign which is seen in the regions of the east, that is, in the parts about Arabia.

    There is a bird, which is named the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years; and when it hath now reached the time of its dissolution that it should die, it maketh for itself a coffin of frankincense and myrrh and the other spices, into the which in the fulness of time it entereth, and so it dieth.

    But, as the flesh rotteth, a certain worm is engendered, which is nurtured from the moisture of the dead creature and putteth forth wings. Then, when it is grown lusty, it taketh up that coffin where are the bones of its parent, and carrying them journeyeth from the country of Arabia even unto Egypt, to the place called the City of the Sun; and in the day time in the sight of all, flying to the altar of the Sun, it layeth them thereupon; and this done, it setteth forth to return. So the priests examine the registers of the times, and they find that it hath come when the five hundredth year is completed.

    Do we then think it to be a great and marvellous thing, if the Creator of the universe shall bring about the resurrection of them that have served Him with holiness in the assurance of a good faith, seeing that He showeth to us even by a bird the magnificence of His promise?”

    – The Epistle of St Clement to the Corinthians

  334. @mcohen

    “Thou shalt not engage in idol worship” is the first and foremost of the 7 Talmudic Noahide Laws and violators will be punished by decapitation.

    FYI, the Noahide Laws were enacted as U.S. law by President George H. Bush (Yale Skull & Bones, as was his son President George ‘Dubya’ Bush) on March 20, 1991.

    Most Americans don’t have a clue because it is innocuously and officially known as “A Joint Resolution To Designate March 26, 1991, As Education Day, USA.”

  335. Off Topic ? Not really …
    Early C20 promotion of “non-judgmental tolerance” — sounds christian, eh ? all that supposed cheek turning, support of “minorities”, “gay” marriage etc …

    György Lukács (thankfully now dead) is still a prominent shaper of so-called morality, was almost a hero figure to my University profs for his “vanguard” leninist theory. They initiated discussions as to how this might be used to deconstruct society.

    If you think this is just old hat that no longer applies, you haven’t been paying attention to events post WW2 in the West particularly …

    In practice during 1919, he immediately set plans in motion to de-Christianize Hungary with a program of “non-judgmental tolerance.” He reasoned that if Christian sexual ethics could be undermined among children, then both the hated patriarchal family and the church would be dealt a crippling blow.

    https://www.winterwatch.net/2021/05/gyorgy-lukacs-practitioner-of-vanguardism-and-cultural-nihilism/

    Personally my main disappointment is that once the Red Terror had been crushed in Hungary he escaped with his life.

  336. @Anonymous

    In order to find some independent support to the “Christ myth” theory (Earl Doherty, Richard Carrier, Robert Price…), I recently ordered Gilles Quispel, Gnostica, Judaica, Catholica, Brill, 2008 and a few other recent works on early Gnosticism. Quispel makes a convincing case the gnosticism was a Jewish (not hellenistic) trend predating Christianity. p. 369: “there can be no doubt that both the ‘Gnostics’ and the ‘Sethians’ are Jewish in origin and only superficially Christianized at a later date.” The same case in made by Attilio Mastrocinque in From Jewish Magic to Gnosticism, Mohr Siebeck, 2005. I think it adds a strong argument to the thesis that Christ was a Jewish-Gnostic Eon before 70, later turned into a historical figure. From that perspective, Paul was a Gnostic, therefore a heterodox, heretical Jew.
    The case of the Sethians and Ophites, Serpent worshippers, is most interesting. It is generally assumed that they turned the deceiving Serpent of Genesis into a positive Eon (identical to Christ), but I think it is the other way round, because it is quite obvious that Genesis contains a polemical attack against those who claim that the Serpent gives the “Knowledge (Gnosis)” that makes one immortal like a god. That would mean that Jewish Gnosticism is older than the redaction of Genesis (probably the Hasmonean period).

    • 回复: @Anonymous
  337. @David Skrbina

    Hello David, in response to your comment on TOO (for some reason, I was unable to comment again there), I did order your book and will read it very soon.
    I understand you are not convinced by Atwill. Neither am I, although it is full of very good points, and I think there is really something about Josephus’s part in the plot. Barbiero’s perspective (symetrical to Atwill, in some way) seems to me more plausible.
    It is really hard to connect all the dots. Regarding Paul, as I just wrote (#344), I think we have to take into account the internal strife within pre-Christian Judaism between mainstream (Sadducean) Yahwism, which is thouroughly materialistic (denial of the afterlife), and Gnostic Judaism, which may be understood as a reaction to the other extreme: rejection of the material world as demonic (and rejection of Yahweh as an evil demiurge, with, in some case worship of the serpent). Paul cannot perhaps be considered a full Gnostic in the sense that he doesn’t attack Yahweh as evil, but he does seem much influenced by it. In any case, it seems to me that intense, internal wars within Judaism have to be taken into account. We cannot consider first-century Judaism as one block.
    By the way, I am also positively intrigued by your book on panpsychism and will also read it. As you can read in my https://www.unz.com/article/blood-and-soul/ article “Blood and soul”, I do think in this line. Do you mention Sheldrake? Best wishes.

    • 回复: @David Skrbina
  338. R2b 说:
    @commandor

    感谢。
    It’s becomming clearer.
    Goebbles is very similar to Klaus Schwab, and if not more to Jacques Attali.

  339. @Agent76

    Nice video for the first half. And then it gets weird. As one interviewee correctly says at this point (24:50): “Arguing for Intelligent Design is one thing : to use it as evidence of the truth of Christianity is another.”
    The interviewer’s failure to convince people out of atheism, despite his correct arguments on DNA, illustrates wonderfully that Christianity is what prevents people for moving out of atheism. People don’t want to be led into a belief system that says there is a Hell, created by God, and such insane ideas. Which proves my point: Christianity begot atheism. If I had the choice only between Christianity and atheism, I would also chose atheism. Christians are guilty of tricking people (as in this video) into believing there are only two choices. Maybe this is what Jesus meant by a “sin against the Spirit” (if he said it).

    • 回复: @anon
  340. @Robin Hood

    In the prelude to the Dark Ages the original Christian Apologists engaged in a similar pseudo-rational debate with the Greek philosophers, who at first ignored the Christians and subsequently lampooned them as fools. But within three generations the fanatics of Christ had taken over the Roman Empire and the laughing stopped.
    ---------

    We need to accept that the better argument did not win. What happened was that a more useful argument won.
    1/3 or more of the people you rule are slaves. You can either give them a religion fit for a slave or a philosophy fit for a free man who wishes to take reason as far as it can take him and then figure it out from their on his own.
    It is simply a matter of utility.
    In my opinion it was a horrible decision for human freedom and led to over a 1000 years in which humans devolved into NOT having running water or proper waste disposal. The concept of cleanliness was abandoned for ‘godliness’ (natural stench is doubleplusgood) and we all had to ‘shut up and do what I/God said’. The decision to choose Christianity as a social model was clearly done by Roman emperors and was based on fear as opposed to reason.
    Even modern Christians prefer toilets over filth.

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  341. red rose 说:

    I have come to the conclusion that ALL religions are controlled by the same people, especially Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

    We know the Jews wrote the Old Testament.

    We know the Jews wrote the New Testament.

    We know the Jews wrote the Koran.

    (Mohammad was married to a Jew, Khadijah, his first wife and he was living in a town controlled and owned by the Jews.)

    We know the Jews started communism in Russia and China.

    (They were the Bolsheviks with financing from rich NYC Jews and the Rothschilds in UK).

  342. @Maowasayali

    I am no expert on the Noahide Laws.
    I do however believe that they may infringe on the Constitution.
    I’m guessing that Shrub et al are happy with eviscerating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights so as to serve their Master.

  343. Seraphim: “This ‘argument’ is not correct. Jesus did not look like Paul.”

    Booysen makes his case on the page I linked above. You’re free to disagree. But if you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you abandon trying to “prove” your point about what the probably fictional character Jesus looked like by referring to the Turin Shroud or the legend of the Acheiropoieta. You’d also need to explain why early Christians such as Tertullian and Irenaeus thought that Jesus was hideous and deformed-looking (see the quotes on Booysen’s page), and saw this as in accord with the description of Jesus given in Isaiah 53:

    他没有美貌或威严来吸引我们,他的外表也没有我们应该渴望他的地方。 他被男人鄙视和拒绝,一个多愁善感的人,熟悉苦难。 就像一个男人掩面不看的人一样,他被鄙视,我们不尊重他。

    当然,他们可能并不比你知道更多,但在我看来,如果有人能够知道,他们的权威比你的要好。 他们离所讨论的时间更近了,并且可能在丢失后可以访问文件。

    Seraphim: “There is no Josephus Flavius’ book called ‘Halosis’.”

    As you would have known if you’d done any research on the topic, the reference is to a translation of a Slavonic copy of Josephus that only surfaced in the early twentieth century. This copy contains passages not found in other copies. Cf. Robert Eisler, The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist: According to Flavius Josephus’ recently rediscovered ‘Capture of Jerusalem’ and the other Jewish and Christian sources (伦敦:Methuen & Co. Ltd.,1931 年)

    Seraphim: ” ‘Arguments’ based on shoddy scholarship and defective ‘logic’ have no value whatsoever”

    If that’s the case, neither is your argument of any value.

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 回复: @C.T.
    , @Seraphim
  344. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    “Our Christianity doesn’t come from Jesus and a big bang. It comes from the accumulation of legends and theologies by people who believed in Jesus. The origin of those ideas wasn’t Jesus. The origin was the myths, legends, philosophies, prejudices, literature, superstitions, and primitive cosmology of ancient western culture. Christianity is a product of its time and place.

    Let’s start thinking about Christian origins by asking a simple question: By what criteria can we decide what ancient godman stories were new and original, and what ancient godman stories were myths built up from the religious ideas of their day?

    这就是我的意思

    <>

    << In fact, when ancient writers tell us that in general ancient people believed in eternal life, with the good going to the Elysian Fields and the not so good going to Hades, we understand that as a myth.

    <>

    <>

    <>

    <>

    << When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.

    Jesus in the 3d century, healing the sick by touching them with a magic wand! So how come when Jesus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, according to prophecy, turning water into wine, raising girls from the dead, and healing blind men with his spittle, and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks… how come that's not a myth?

    And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff? …

    Since the idea of Christian-Pagan similarities is probably new to you, most of POCM is set up to help you discover the simple facts for yourself. Read the ancient sources and decide for yourself. …

    Then later on, we'll talk about what those facts mean. I'll review the modern scholarship for you, then we'll talk about the reasoning behind the claim that Christianity borrowed ideas from the Pagan culture around it. We'll also analyze the various believer's attacks on the idea of Christian – Pagan borrowing.

    You'll discover: there is no consistent, reasoned analysis of the evidence that can pick out Christianity as fundamentally different from other ancient Pagan religions. Christianity is an ancient Pagan religion."

    Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth – Getting Started
    https://pocm.info/getting_started_pocm.html

    • 不同意: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  345. Robin Hood 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The Rise of Christian Tyranny – Ruin of Public Health
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ruin.html

    “The triumph of ecclesiastic terrorism (see Death on the Nile) signalled the end of Alexandria as an intellectual centre. From the early 5th century onward this greatest metropolis of the Hellenic world dwindled into a Christianised backwater.

    With Christian dominion in Egypt came the burial of the dead and the loss of a practical knowledge which, for millennia, had been gained from the mummification of corpses. The victory of religious fanatics signalled the impending closure of the academies of secular study and with it, an end to the formal training of doctors. Any residual knowledge of ancient medical wisdom, passed on by practitioners, was condemned as ‘sorcery’ and this censure extended to attacks upon herbal remedies.

    With the victory of Christ, cleanliness and hygiene were themselves suspect. The Church condemned public bathing (as immoral and sinful) as energetically as it did the theatre, and encouraged the closure of the baths which had done so much to preserve public health in the great cities of the Roman world.

    ‘A clean body and clean clothes betoken an unclean mind.’ (C. Freeman, p238)

    Thus spoke the ‘ascetic Paula’, a Roman aristocrat and Christian zealot, to the nuns she had gathered around her. St Jerome, Church luminary and author of the Vulgate Bible, echoed her sentiments: ‘He who has bathed in Christ does not need a second bath.’

    Church Father Tertullian found even shaving offensive to God. It was:

    ‘… a lie against our own faces, and an impious attempt to improve the works of the creator.’ (Gibbon, ch. 15)

    But the Roman habit of daily bathing, such a quintessential feature of their culture, took centuries to die. During the 6th century reign of another Christian hero – Justinian – Constantinople’s public baths still functioned. But the numerous baths dated from an earlier age and they had never matched the spectacular structures of pagan Rome.

    In the largesse of Justinian’s early years the Bath of Zeuxippus was embellished and another built in the district of Hebdomon. But throughout his reign the Christian monarch’s preoccupation (and the empire’s wealth) was taken up with the construction of a plethora of costly churches, monasteries and convents.

    There were no ‘Baths of Justinian’ – Godliness came before cleanliness.

    Wars and civil turmoil interrupted urban water supply (and not only to the baths) throughout the Roman world. Starved of funds and with no new engineers being trained sophisticated maintenance of the baths became impossible. During the 7th and 8th centuries, all the grand baths went out of use completely, their fabric pillaged for Christian churches.

    Church prudishness, which viewed the human body not as a thing of beauty but rather as a temptation, had no regrets about the loss.

    Skin diseases – the notorious ‘boils’ and ‘leprosy’ of the Middle Ages – became the norm rather than the exception. Until modern times, almost any disfiguring skin complaint was classed as ‘leprosy.’ Untreated, permanent damage would spread from skin to nerves, limbs and eyes.

    Lepers themselves were total outcasts. Once a charge of leprosy was made the hapless soul was banned from towns, markets, even churches. Forced to live outside the main settlements, the leper had to carry a clapper or a bell to warn passers-by of his coming.

    Christian ‘charity’ occasionally established a lazar house, not to effect any treatment to the sick but to confine the victims away from other folk. Condemned to this living hell (lepers were known as the ‘dead among the living’) these desperate souls still had their uses. For a certain breed of pious Christian ‘caring’ became an end in itself, the means by which the carer earned his own salvation in the world yet to come.

    But at least the sufferers were close to God. ….”

  346. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    “Ask yourself, how did these disparate Churches share a common faith largely without splintering? How did they maintain a common theology?” Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

    The Many Colours of Christianity
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/peter.htm#juliusII

    “The Christ legend, as it existed in the mid-years of the second century, was still in the process of forming. The churches of the Mediterranean world were functioning as a number of autonomous entities, with only a minimal degree of doctrinal agreement. Centuries later it would be held that there had been some sort of ‘orthodoxy’ from the very beginning and everything else was a marginal heresy, ultimately falling by the wayside as ‘orthodoxy’ triumphed. Yet this is very much, the history of the victors. In truth, nothing was so clear cut.

    All of the ‘Church Fathers’ were heretics judged by the standards of later centuries. In their own day, they clashed violently with each other on central issues, such as: was Christ God, an emanation of God or a creation of God? If Christ was a creation, yet was himself a god, was Christianity a two god faith? Jewish theologians certainly attacked the Christians for such an apostasy. Again, if Christ was a creation, had there been a time when he had not existed? Was the creation less than the creator? If less than the creator, could his death atone for the sins of the world? After all, would it not require the sacrifice of at least a god to redeem the whole of humanity? Yet if Christ was more than a normal man, could his death and resurrection be an example for normal men to follow? Perhaps Jesus was a human upon whom the holy spirit had descended or was he God taking on the appearance of human form? If wholly or even partly God could he have suffered an agonizing death or did it just appear so? The questions were endless and the answers just as numerous.

    Doctrine, of course, went hand-in-hand with secular authority; and with secular authority went earthly rewards. Resolving doctrinal issues by their own lights, the churches in Asia Minor, Palestine, Egypt, Armenia and Syria spun off in their own direction, establishing idiosyncratic versions of Christianity. To proselytize their particular ‘variation on a theme,’ they wrote gospels which confirmed the correctness of their own beliefs, attributing authorship to their adopted apostle. Each Christianity sent out missionaries, some east, into Persia; several of them to Rome, the great pagan city. …

    Though initially junior, and rent by sectarian divisions, by the close of the third century the Roman Church had brought discipline into its own ranks and was asserting Roman imperium in a new guise. It had built a claim to command the ‘one true faith’ on the fabrication of an apostolic commander-in-chief, fused from Jewish scripture and re-worked pagan motifs, particularly Mithras and Janus.

    With re-written gospel as its justifying doctrine, a fraudulent apostolic succession to give credence, and obsequious toadying to superstitious emperors to win imperial endorsement, Roman Catholicism set about the task of re-conquering the world.”

  347. Johan 说:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Christianity’s principles of universalism and egalitarianism in this case are being implemented, not overthrown.

    Social egalitarianism is not a gnostic principle, it is what socialist scoundrels of the earliest movement smuggled into it, and what scoundrels of later centuries have promoted once again. It is based on envy, which is exactly what gnosticism would reject. The egalitarianism of democracy and socialism and their uniformity is all based on envy, it is an abomination. Egalitarianism, social and democratic, and universalism, when pushed out of its defined limits leads to decline and total annihilation of culture, as we see today.

    Equal rights before the law, and equal rights in term of the freedom to move upwards in the societal hierarchy based up on competence is the only equality which gnosticism and later on, gnosticism based humanism stood for.

  348. Johan: “Equal rights before the law, and equal rights in term of the freedom to move upwards in the societal hierarchy based up on competence is the only equality which gnosticism and later on, gnosticism based humanism stood for.”

    Christianity says that all “souls” are equal regardless of race or sex.

    28没有犹太人,没有外邦人,没有奴隶,没有自由,也没有男女,因为你们都在基督耶稣里。
    –加拉太书3:28

    Social egalitarianism or equality of outcome is a logical consequence of positing an equality of “souls”, for if people are understood to be inherently equal, as Christianity claims they are, then inequality of outcome can only be explained by some having an unfair advantage over others. This is why Christianity inevitably must give rise to modern liberalism; why it carries “the seeds of its own destruction”, as MacDonald puts it in his review above. Therefore, anyone who opposes modern liberalism must also oppose Christianity, since the one gives rise to the other, just as nits give rise to lice.

  349. R2b 说:
    @Mevashir

    Wasnt the Una-bomber a CIA psyop?
    In order to discredit rightful skepsis concerning technocracy.

  350. Robin Hood 说:

    A Fabricated Apostle? Two Different Pauls in Epistles and Acts – plus an Extra, Saul ! https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/saul-paul.htm

    Saul of Tarsus – a witness for Jesus?

    One is informed by Acts that St Paul’s early day stance was as “Saul, the Christian persecutor”. Yet if Saul really was a vigilante for orthodox Judaism at the time of Stephen’s stoning (Acts 7.58-8.3), becoming the chief persecutor of Christians, no less – one wonders just where was Saul, not long before, when a supposed radical rabbi called Jesus was stirring up whole towns and villages?

    [更多]

    Paul’s role as religious policeman seems not to have awakened until shortly after the godman’s death. But in itself this suggests Jesus of Nazareth had no great impact. After all, Saul was a contemporary of Jesus in time and place, raised in Jerusalem (“at the feet of Gamaliel” – Acts 22.3) at precisely the time the godman was overturning moneychangers in the Temple and generally provoking Pharisees and Sadducees.

    Would not Saul, a young religious hothead (“exceedingly zealous of the traditions” – Galatians 1.14) have waded into those multitudes to heckle and attack the Nazarene himself? Would he not have been an enthusiastic witness to JC’s blasphemy before the Sanhedrin? And where was Saul during “passion week”, surely in Jerusalem with the other zealots celebrating the holiest of festivals? And yet he reports not a word of the crucifixion?

    Paul, another “witness for Jesus”, saw and heard nothing!

    Two Pauls – One Illusion

    The trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle, St Paul, appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age (not in Tacitus, not in Pliny, not in Josephus, etc.) Though Paul, we are told, mingled in the company of provincial governors and had audiences before kings and emperors, no scribe thought it worthwhile to record these events. The popular image of the saint is selectively crafted from two sources: the Book of Acts and the Epistles which bear his name. Yet the two sources actually present two radically different individuals and two wildly divergent stories. Biblical scholars are only too familiar with the conundrum that chunks of Paul’s own story, gleaned from the epistles, are incompatible with the tale recorded in Acts but live with the “divine mystery” of it all. Perish the thought that they might recognize the whole saga is a work of pious fiction. …

    Saul of Tarsus – a witness for Jesus?

    One is informed by Acts that St Paul’s early day stance was as “Saul, the Christian persecutor”. Yet if Saul really was a vigilante for orthodox Judaism at the time of Stephen’s stoning (Acts 7.58-8.3), becoming the chief persecutor of Christians, no less – one wonders just where was Saul, not long before, when a supposed radical rabbi called Jesus was stirring up whole towns and villages?

    Paul’s role as religious policeman seems not to have awakened until shortly after the godman’s death. But in itself this suggests Jesus of Nazareth had no great impact. After all, Saul was a contemporary of Jesus in time and place, raised in Jerusalem (“at the feet of Gamaliel” – Acts 22.3) at precisely the time the godman was overturning moneychangers in the Temple and generally provoking Pharisees and Sadducees.

    Would not Saul, a young religious hothead (“exceedingly zealous of the traditions” – Galatians 1.14) have waded into those multitudes to heckle and attack the Nazarene himself? Would he not have been an enthusiastic witness to JC’s blasphemy before the Sanhedrin? And where was Saul during “passion week”, surely in Jerusalem with the other zealots celebrating the holiest of festivals? And yet he reports not a word of the crucifixion?

    Paul, another “witness for Jesus”, saw and heard nothing!

    Two Pauls – One Illusion

    The trail-blazing Christian missionary and apostle, St Paul, appears nowhere in the secular histories of his age (not in Tacitus, not in Pliny, not in Josephus, etc.) Though Paul, we are told, mingled in the company of provincial governors and had audiences before kings and emperors, no scribe thought it worthwhile to record these events. The popular image of the saint is selectively crafted from two sources: the Book of Acts and the Epistles which bear his name. Yet the two sources actually present two radically different individuals and two wildly divergent stories. Biblical scholars are only too familiar with the conundrum that chunks of Paul’s own story, gleaned from the epistles, are incompatible with the tale recorded in Acts but live with the “divine mystery” of it all. Perish the thought that they might recognize the whole saga is a work of pious fiction.

    行为

    The Paul of Acts is a team player. His conversion on the road to Damascus is so important that it is repeated three times (son et lumiere). From a previous state of error (as “Saul”, the persecuting Jewish zealot) he is brought into the loving embrace of the fledgling church.

    Now part of the brethren (“with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem” – 9.28), he is “managed” by the elders. Disciples “took him” from Damascus (9.25) and Barnabas “brought him” to the apostles (9.27). They “brought him” to Caesarea and then they “sent him” to Tarsus. Barnabas “brought” Paul back to Antioch (11.26) and then with him was “sent” to Jerusalem with famine relief (11.30) – (as it happens, a visit to Jerusalem completely unknown to Paul himself).

    Eventually the brethren “send” Paul on his first missionary journey (13.4). As a missionary, Paul is very much on the collective message:

    “And as they went through the cities they delivered them the decrees for to keep that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. And so were the churches established.” – Acts 16.4,5.

    From Thessalonica, Paul is “sent away” to Berea by the brethren (17.10). He is also “sent away” by sea and “brought” to Athens (17.14,15). In Cenchrea, Paul even takes a Jewish vow and shaves his head! (18.18).

    Though his name is cited in Acts 177 times, “Paul” is never coupled with the familiar honorific “apostle”. The closest Acts comes to bestowing the title is 14.14 where his name follows Barnabas and the plural is used. In every other instance, Paul is an entity quite separate from, and implicitly subordinate to, the apostles. The slight is striking, given that Acts was supposedly written by Luke, Paul’s companion and admirer.

    书信

    In stark contrast, the Paul of the Epistles is a bombastic maverick, representing no one but himself and under no one’s direction. It is Paul who is doing the directing. Full of his own importance, in all his letters Paul hammers home the point that he is an apostle and that his appointment comes directly from the divine. His “proof” of this is his own success as a missionary (e.g. 2 Corinthians 2,3) – an argument of dubious merit still used by churches today. Look at our success! We must be right!

    Paul makes no reference to a “Damascene road” conversion nor to an origin in Tarsus (Jerome reported that Paul was from Galilee!). He makes no reference to Cyprus and the battle with a rival magician, nor does he refer to the edict from James on food prohibitions and fornication. Paul, it seems, owes nothing to any man. A bad-tempered bully, he wastes little sympathy on those who do not accept his point of view. Thus when he loses the support of Peter and Barnabas over eating with Gentiles, Paul rebukes Peter publicly and writes that he has reneged out of “fear” and Barnabas has been naively “carried away” (Galatians 2.12,13).

    The Implausible Paul

    It is curious that no Jewish rabbinic writings of the 1st or 2nd century so much as mention a renegade student of Gamaliel who, having studied under the master and vigorously enforced orthodoxy on behalf of the high priests, experienced a life-changing vision on an away mission. Not a word emerges from the rabbis about the star pupil who “went bad”, a heretic who scrapped the prohibitions of the Sabbath, urged his followers to disregarded Judaism’s irksome dietary regulations, and pronounced the Law and circumcision obsolete. Surely such a renegade could not have completely escaped the attention of the scribes?

    How likely is it that Paul really studied under the Pharisaic grandee (Acts 22.3)? Paul clearly had difficulty with the Hebrew language: all his scriptural references are taken from the Greek translation of Jewish scripture, the Septuagint.

    How likely is it that, as a young man, Paul – supposedly a Roman citizen and from the Hellenised diaspora – even got the job as chief policeman of the ultra-orthodox of Jerusalem? And if Paul really had secured such a position, he surely would have had far bigger fish to fry than a miniscule “Jesus group” in Damascus. We are told in Acts that the apostles continued to preach in Jerusalem even after the death of Stephen (“They all scattered abroad … except the apostles.” – Acts 8.1,2). So why didn’t Paul go for the ringleaders, closer to hand?

    “Nothing in his letters suggests that Paul had any official standing in his treatment of Christians … Hence, in opposition to what Luke says, he could not have used arrest, torture or imprisonment as a means of forcing Christians to recognize that they had been misled.” – Murphy O’Connor, Paul, His History, p19.

    Given that the Jewish High Council (the Sanhedrin) had no authority to empower a heresy hunter to operate in the independent city of Damascus, Paul’s road trip is even more implausible.

    Where DID they get their ideas from?

    Real earthquake – likely to do rather more than “loosen shackles and open doors”.

    Josephus was himself betrayed by ‘John’, chose an ally named ‘Silas’, and made a miraculous escape!
    ” But when John [of Gichala] was come to the city of Tiberias, he persuaded the men to revolt from their fidelity to me …

    A messenger had come to me from Silas, whom I had made governor of Tiberias …

    Upon the receipt of this letter of Silas, I took two hundred men along with me, and traveled all night …

    Having dismissed the guards I had about me, excepting one, and ten armed men that were with him,

    I attempted to make a speech to the multitude … But before I had spoken … to provide for my own safety, and escape my enemies there …

    [I was] carried upon the back of one Herod of Tiberias, and guided by him down to the lake, where I seized a ship, and got into it, and escaped my enemies unexpectedly, and came to Tarichese.”

    – Josephus, Life 17

    “But Paul thought not good to take John with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia …

    And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.– Acts 15.38,40

    ” And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

    忽然地大震动,监牢的地基都震动了,所有的门都立刻打开,每个人的锁链都松开了。

    看守从睡梦中醒来,见监门开着,就拔出剑,以为囚犯逃跑了,就想自杀。

    But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas”.

    – 使徒行传 16.25,29

    Convert?

    How likely is it that Saul/Paul converted within a year or two of the crucifixion (Irenaeus says eighteen months)? If he truly was a precocious zealot of Judaism and was completely untouched by the perambulations and miraculous deeds of the godman himself – short of the supposed blinding “miracle” – why would he, of all people, so readily embrace the heresy? The four Gospels neither mention nor even hint at a pioneering apostle called Paul.

    There is also a curious parallel between the alleged “persecution” speech spoken by the celestial Christ to the blinded Paul (“Saul, Saul … “) and the persecution of Dionysius found in Euripides work “the Bacchae” – and both use the word “goads”.

    If Paul (Saul) really had apostatised to the extent of joining (or establishing) a radical new sect, how is it the rabbis did not anathematize his name? To be sure, Jewish Christians (Ebionites) did condemn Paul and did so in the harshest terms – even suggesting that in reality he had been a malcontented Greek convert, whose ardour had been rejected by the High Priest’s daughter! (Epiphanius, Panarion, 16). But that was in the 2nd century, long after any life and death of the apostle.

    The “persecution” of the early church seems an extraordinarily unlikely construct because once Saul, the “destroyer of the saints”, transforms into Paul the apostle, and is whisked away by the brethren to safety in Caesarea and home to Tarsus, the persecution abruptly stops. The “persecution” is entirely a one man circus.

    ” Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.” – 9:31

    The entire pre-Christian “Saul, the scourge of the church” makes no sense at all as history – but does make a great deal of sense as theology. “Zealous Jew sees the light of Jesus, becomes Christian.” The theological purpose is as obvious as the historical vignette is bogus.

    “Murderous Jews” of Damascus

    How likely is Paul’s “escape by basket” from the city of Damascus (Acts 9.25) ? Typically, baskets lowered by rope are used by tenement dwellers to buy bread from street vendors, first lowering the basket with payment then raising the basket with their loaf. But man-sized baskets? And why could not Paul just climb down the rope like a normal person?

    And just who was Paul escaping from? According to Paul’s “own” testimony (2 Corinthians 11.32,33) it was “the governor under Aretas the king”. Aretas IV was the Nabataean monarch who ruled a vast area from his capital of Petra, though Paul gives no explanation as to why Aretas was out to get him.

    But Acts, consistent with its hostility to “the Jews”, tells us it was Jews of murderous intent (Acts 9.23,24). Why were the Jews so murderous? Any reputation Paul had among the Jews of Damascus would have been as an enforcer of Judaism, not as a Christian heretic. The weak explanation offered by Acts is that the converted Saul had “confounded” the Jews in the synagogue with his Christ. Apparently, that was sufficient cause for them to organise the intended assassination and watch the city gates (and there were at least seven of them) “day and night” – a considerable investment of manpower. O’Connor asks the reasonable question:

    “Why should the Jews watch the gates, when it would have been perfectly easy to find out where Paul was living and arrange an ‘accident’ there?” – O’Connor, A Critical Life, p6.

    Faced with such hostility from his erstwhile co-religionists, how plausible is it that Paul, having just experienced a life-changing conversion, instead of joining the earthly companions of his newly acquired Lord, instead goes off to “Arabia” for three years – an “Arabia” that has just chased him out of Damascus?!

    Surely he would seek safety with fellow Christians? Surely he would wish to speak with his Saviour’s still living mother, visit the places where Jesus wrought his miracles, tread the path to Calvary and ponder on the spot where his Lord suffered his passion? (Could it be that Paul does NOT do any of these things because virgin birth, miraculous deeds and earthly crucifixion have not yet been added to the story??!!)

    Where DID they get their ideas from?

    Circumcision NOT necessary – says Josephus!
    ” At this time it was that two great men, who were under the jurisdiction of king Agrippa, came to me out of the region of Trachonius, bringing their horses and their arms, and carrying with them their money also.

    And when the Jews would force them to be circumcised, if they would stay among them, I would not permit them to have any force put upon them, but said to them,

    “Every one ought to worship God according to his own inclinations, and not to be constrained by force; and that these men, who had fled to us for protection, ought not to be so treated as to repent of their coming hither.”

    – Josephus, Life 23

    “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

    And after they had held their peace, James answered …

    Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God.”

    – 使徒行传 15.1,19

    Council of Jerusalem?

    Acts 15 reports that Paul’s “long abode” at Antioch which followed his first missionary journey is interrupted by “legalizers” from Judaea who insist that salvation required circumcision. The brethren are alarmed and Paul and Barnabas are chosen to lead a delegation to Jerusalem to meet the apostles and elders. The meeting is the famed “Council of Jerusalem”. Conventionally dated anywhere between the years 48 and 52, Acts reports a pretty harmonious get together, with the main issue readily resolved. Paul regales the brothers with tales of “miracles and wonders” among the gentiles (15.12) and James rules that as far as circumcising the Gentiles is concerned, “we trouble them not” (15.19). Back in Antioch, the brethren “rejoiced” (15.32).

    Yet Paul’s own report on the meeting with “those who seemed to be the pillars” is very different. He goes to Jerusalem as a result of his own “revelation” (Galatians 2.2) and records what is actually a confrontation.

    If there really was a “Council of Jerusalem” at which Paul won the argument that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised why did Paul so soon afterward personally circumcise Timothy, a disciple he found in Lystra? (16.3) To be sure, Timothy we are told is a half Jew so an apologetic argument is that it was to “gain acceptance” by the Jews of the region but such an argument presupposes a huge public awareness of poor Timothy’s genitals. (There’s no hint that Timothy was even asked how he felt about it!) But even more curious is what Paul himself says. Paul specifically declares that, not Timothy, but his other Greek sidekick Titus, was not circumcised!

    “Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.” – Galatians 2.3,4.

    “False brothers”, “spies”, are trying to make Paul and his entourage “slaves”?!

    Such love, such Christian fellowship.

    Founder of Churches?

    More oddities exist. Paul supposedly established the church at Ephesus (Acts 18.18ff; 19.5,7), spending more time with his acolytes in that city than anywhere else (three months during the second mission, three years during the third). We are encouraged to believe that Paul’s first and second “Letters to the Corinthians” were written from Ephesus, and that it was here that Paul received troubled delegates from Corinth and presided over Christianity’s first book burning (Acts 19.19).

    Yet it was the apostle John, settling in Ephesus after the crucifixion, who was ever after credited as founder of the Ephesian church. At the behest of Jesus himself, the Blessed Virgin had been placed in John’s care and it seems off they had traipsed to Ephesus. Here Mary’s house had been lovingly built by John with his own hands – a house which is is to be seen to this very day!

    John was also said to have been the teacher of the venerable Bishop Polycarp, at nearby Smyrna. Whereas Mary’s ultimate fate was not dreamed up for centuries, according to 2nd century Irenaeus (quoted by Eusebius, 23) John remained in Ephesus until the time of Emperor Trajan (98-117) and, according to 3rd century Dionysius of Alexandria, had not one but two Ephesian tombs.

    Thus the story has it that the apostle John was a long-term resident in the very city evangelised by Paul on his second journey, “popularly” supposed to have begun in the year 49.

    Yet for all the overlap in time and place, Paul neither met Mary nor consulted with fellow apostle John. Curious, to say the least.

    Just what is going on here: mutual ignorance, churlishness, hostility – at the heart of the church of love?

    现实检查

    What we are dealing with are two distinct (and rival) traditions, one centred on the collective of the apostles and underscoring the leadership of Peter (and hence Roman Catholicism); the other starring the apostle Paul, the pioneering theological genius and founder of churches. And for whom does “Paul” speak? Why, the faction that lost the political struggle – the church of Marcion, the very person who first “discovered” the epistles of Paul in the mid-to-late 2nd century.

    In their original form (from the pen of the Marcionites) the Pauline epistles were far too dualistic and gnostic for a “mass market”, with a theology which embraced escape from the material world. But they provided useful tales of the Holy Spirit at work among the Gentiles. The core Pauline (Marcionite) theology of individual salvation – “justification by faith” – severed the attachment to an exclusive Jewish bloodline and dispensed with the irksome dictates of Mosaic law. Initially alarming to the Jewish element of Catholicism, geopolitical developments would soon make such a theology very appealing.

    The protracted struggle between the pro- and anti- “Jewish” Christian factions of the first half of the 2nd century ended after the Bar Kosiba war of 130-135 and the opprobrium in Rome of all things Jewish. In a half-baked fashion, the two “traditions” came together. The book of Acts was a Catholic triumph, which cut Paul down to size and brought the hero of the Marcionites into the securing arms of would-be orthodoxy.

    To be sure, Paul himself was “glorified” and credited with extensive missionary activity, replete with miracles quite unrecorded in the eponymous letters. But in the new story, Paul writes no epistles. Instead, he delivers one from the top dogs in Jerusalem! In a weakly thought out story the “leader” of the Jerusalem apostles is moved to Rome ahead of Paul, and is placed upon the “pope’s” chair. Paul, the superstar of a fabricated 1st century evangelical crusade, would ever after stand awkwardly at the shoulder of a far flimsier creature fashioned by the church in Rome – St Peter.

    Thus was Paul, erstwhile hero of the heretics, refashioned into the “13th apostle” and assimilated into the Catholic collective, even as the Marcionite churches were being integrated into the greater and universal Roman church. The epistles ascribed to Paul – too useful and too popular to be erased from the record – were expropriated and doctored for the Catholic cause and augmented by others composed by the Catholic ecclesia.

    These so-called “pastoral” epistles, addressed to the pastors or “shepherds” of the flock, reined in maverick and independent clergy and underscored episcopal authority. Nascent Catholicism, organizing itself in Rome, was very much of this world, and saw its future glory in accommodation with the imperial order. The approved “canon” followed, closing the door on further creative theology.

    The fabricated Paul

    “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have
    received, let him be accursed … For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” – Galatians 1.9,12.

    A Catholicised sainthood was the ultimate fate of our hero Paul but from where did the super-apostle arise? If, as seems likely, Marcion created what would become the New Testament Paul as a messenger for his own ideas, he almost certainly used biographical material from his own life, particularly the power struggle he waged with the collective in Rome. Marcion, like “Paul”, alone knew the truth, a mystery made manifest to him by revelation.

    As a shipping magnate from Sinope (a Black Sea port, a hundred miles north of Galatia) Marcion enjoyed financial independence and was able to travel extensively. At one point he even financed the church in Rome before being excommunicated and returning to the east. He would have been familiar with the sea lanes and attendant dangers that figure so prominently in the Pauline story. To give his theology added “authority” it had to be back projected into an earlier “apostolic age”. He may have chosen the name Paul (meaning “small” or “humble”) as reflective of his own position.

    When Catholicism commandeered Marcion’s creation, the novelists in Rome would undoubtedly have used the works of Josephus, the all-purpose source books of the Christians, for additional material. And here they found not a Paul but a Saul, an Herodian aristocrat of unsavoury character. This material became the core for the preamble to Paul’s story, his “life in Judaism”. And the life of Josephus himself certainly was plundered: episodes in the Jewish historian’s biography resonate just too closely with the Pauline story, particularly the shipwreck on the way to Rome.

    Josephus was not just an historian. Before the war, he had been appointed by the high priest Ananias as governor in Galilee, with a brief that meant suppressing (“persecuting”) radical movements. One of the bandit groups he had to deal with in and around Tiberias was led by a bandit chief called … Jesus.

    “So Jesus the son of Sapphias [chief magistrate of Tiberias], one of those whom we have already mentioned as the leader of a seditious tumult of mariners and poor people, prevented us, and took with him certain Galileans, and set the entire palace on fire … Jesus and his party slew all the Greeks that were inhabitants of Tiberias, and as many others as were their enemies before the war began.” – Josephus, Life 12.

    • 同意: Olivier1973
  351. @Yoska Ruslo

    > “Not all Westerners, Christians or not, are the same, there are huge differences in mentality even in a single country like Italy for example.”

    Unfortunately, I do not view it that way. There must be a fine balance between a purely metaphysical conception and a geographical one, but here, geopolitics does precede morals – there is no hope for establishing a NatSoc state if it belongs to the European Union and NATO. This way, the only remotely independent European nation-state is Syria… I mean, Belarus. Alongside the breakaway republics of Transnistria, Donbass and Ossetia.

    When the push comes to shove, Hungary, for example, is a slave to America politically. A bunch of morons, all of them. And they have the gall to whine about a far more brotherly Soviet Russia! All Christians are the same.

    > “Germany is currently very liberal yes. but they had to kill 8 million of them, bomb the country into a pile of rubble…”

    And they didn’t have to do the same to Russia to achieve a similar result. The heart of the Christian civilisation is in America, and everyone in Europe is looking up to them, aping them in every way.

    > “Anglos are different from everyone in Europe…”

    The English language is indeed the most queer in Europe. They are the only people not readily able to read the Latin script properly (米利 成为 Mailites). Being a centre of civilisation, they seem to be full of vigour to this day, constantly churning out disgusting new words – 性别 而不是 性别, 黑色 而不是 黑色, 北京 而不是 北京 – wholly forgetting the old ones in the span of a decade.

    But you have to give the Anglos credit for inventing science, discovering the biological evolution, and being the only imperial power which did not miscegenate in the colonies. Although the last point is probably a failure – had the USA been Brazil since the beginning, Europe would have been alive and triumphant.

    • 回复: @Yoska Ruslo
  352. Incitatus 说:
    @Yoska Ruslo

    “Americans started yesterday, half of their brief history being ruled by Jewes, you delusional monkey”

    Actually it started 401 years ago for my family in Nouveau Monde, not “yesterday”.

    Sorry, no Hebrews in evidence from 260 AD. Tell us why that matters. Spare no words.

    Where was your family 1620 AD? In 260 AD? Give us a hint.

    Doubt you know. Prove me wrong.

    • 回复: @Yoska Ruslo
  353. @Laurent Guyénot

    Thanks, Laurent. Agreed, the internal Jewish strife is overlooked in the “anti-Semitic” aspect of Christianity. Jews know each other the best, and they can be their own fiercest critics.

    Glad to hear of your interest in panpsychism — it has a long, noble, and interesting history, though my critics here seem to think they can use this against me, as yet another 广告人身攻击. Oh well. Yes, I briefly mention Sheldrake, though his case is purely speculative and not well-grounded.

    When you get a chance to read “Jesus Hoax,” I would certainly like to hear your thoughts.

    • 回复: @SeekerofthePresence
  354. @David Skrbina

    Pundits ponder the Hidden
    Through a panoply of words.
    Forget He reveals Himself
    To those hungry for the Word.

  355. @Adûnâi

    ” The heart of the Christian civilisation is in America, and everyone in Europe is looking up to them, aping them in every way.”

    That’s what humans always to do, the ape what they perceive as successful Most places on earth are Judaicized/Anglicized. The point is, white Europeans debating or expecting that the so called Right-Wing “anglos” do something to put a real challenge to their liberal elites and Jewish overlords are delusional, these “anglo” Right-Wing groups are largely without resources, many of them misfits, with poor knowledge of real history, quite stupid and nevertheless have an unbelievable ridiculous high opinion of themselves

    I was reading part of the thread and you wrote that you’re “little Russian” probably meaning Ukrainian and somebody said that so called Right-Wing “anglos” hardly would consider you even White, that is true and isn’t that laughable?
    That Celtic “we Wuz Angloz and Saxanz” scum is the arbiter to decide who is “white” or not in Europe?
    Not mentioning the inane “Aryan” label, If there was a people who could claim the dumb “Aryan” label in Europe are the Eastern European Slavs R1a haplogroup.

    Name the occasions where Right-Wing thinking prevailed among Britons aka “anglo” wannabes in the last 2000 years? Their most famous warrior of antiquity was General Boudicca who started a war because she had her “honor and female rights” apparently violated by Roman officials. Isn’t that laughable?

    Now that their usefulness is pretty much over thet are being replaced by their much superior (((overlords))) without a fight and dragging all White people to the abyss. On their knees worshipping negroes now that’s nearing the end game.
    Expecting something from those trash like a white ethnostate in america? The first real Right-Wing victory among them in two millennia? Better expect aliens.

    Christianity is a nocive religion, especially Protestantism, but clearly is not the main problem.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  356. @Incitatus

    You refereed to America when “No matter. Don’t worry about us. We’ll figure it out. We always have.”
    Brief history half of it ruled by Jews,

    Yes you can trace your family to 260 AD, And I’m sure they were relatives of Roman Emperor Valerianus.

    Please spare me of horrible insults like “You’re a miserable failure in the private sector.”

    • 回复: @Incitatus
  357. R2b 说:

    诗篇
    诗篇2中
    ”Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    2地上的君王立定了自己,统治者齐心协力,对耶和华和他的受膏者说,
    3让我们打破他们的束缚,丢下他们的绳索。
    4坐在天上的必笑;主必嘲笑他们。
    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, an vex them in his sore displeasure.
    6我却将我的王安葬在我锡安的圣山上。
    7我要宣告这命令。耶和华对我说,你是我的儿子。 这一天我生了你。
    8求问我,我将把你的产业赐给外邦人,你的财产要赐给地球上的一切。
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potters’s vessel.
    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings; be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11惧怕事奉耶和华,因战embl而喜乐。
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

    The atheist and the Zionist, cant but acknowledge, if they read read this Word of God through, that Jesus Christ is the son of God, himself then God, the second person in the Holy Trinity, and that Zion is a stolen name, taken to false and earthly purposes, that now piece of clay.
    Also the inheritors of the German national socialists, called nazi, who want to cut the Old Testament from the Scriptures, that is the Bible, are doing the Zionists bidding.
    The thousand years are now nearly or perhaps absolutely over, and time is closing up.
    Be ye instructed

  358. Seraphim 说:
    @Yoska Ruslo

    The heart of Christian civilization is the Orthodox Church, the only truly ‘One, Holy, Universal and Apostolic’. The particular ‘churches’, Roman, Anglican, Lutheran, Calvinist, ‘Aryan’ (least of all) are ‘Protestant’ assemblies which have a name, ‘parasynagogues’ [“If someone (deacon, priest or bishop) has been found in error (πταίσματι: ‘fault,’ ‘sin’) and has been asked to cease from liturgical functions but has not submitted to the canons of the Church but instead has granted to himself priestly functions and some persons abandon the Church and join him, this is parasynagogue”], pitiful parodies of the Church, mimicking in some externals its doctrine and rituals.
    The simple idea that ‘everyone in Europe is looking up’ to the American ‘christianity’ (be it ‘puritan’, ‘evangelical’, ‘christian-zionist’) is beyond laughable. It is a cruel joke that Americans perpetrate against themselves. They cannot wrap their minds around that Orthodox don’t give a sh*t for their bluster, as they don’t give a sh*t for their ‘atheist’, ‘christian’ anarchist, ‘white christian identity’, ‘gnostic’, ‘rainbow’ fellow travelers. And that explains the impotent rage of the Skrbinas, Guyenots, Robin Hoods and ‘eiusdem farinae’ who pollute the commentariat here and elsewhere with their rantings against the Church who didn’t do them any harm.
    We pray that they might repent and come to their right mind.

  359. @Seraphim

    > “The heart of Christian civilization is the Orthodox Church…”

    Armenians were not asked.

    I myself typically respect long-winded comments, and view most one-liners as shit-for-brains Russian-tier garbage, but this one-liner of mine is exactly profound and laconic. The Orthodox church is not Christian because niggers can’t be Christian!

    Obviously, when I talk about Christianity, I don’t mean the church, but the culture it spawned, or even was spawned by in the midst of the millennia past. America is clearly the centre – because it has the vigour to create new words. Russians, for example, gobble up all the American terms – even the moronic 4chan “gay left vs trad right” dichotomy! – and consider Russian ideas shameful and unworthy. On the other hand, Juche Koreans do not care that some foreign faggots would laugh at them, they keep calm and love their own race.

    And the Koreans too had their history of race-denigrating nonsense – their Confucian China-worshipping values. Which they abandoned. Alongside their entire Hanja writing system. When people were laughing at the Korean language as peasant-tier and lowly. The same way Christians/liberals view atheist racists in the West.

  360. mcohen 说:

    For the bakers

    how do you make a sausage roll……push it

  361. Doc 说:
    @storxian

    I make this point to the neo pagans.. Catholic/Orthodox Christianity (the real mainstream, regardless what Prots think) has had thousands of years of intellectual development.. it is far greater than the story of Jesus.. it is a literal owner’s manual to the mind, body, and soul. The rules aren’t there to control you.. they are there to protect you because regardless of spiritual forgiveness, erring in those ways can have immense temporal consequence.. they can cause your mind and psyche to warp and wither in ways you cannot understand until it is too late..

    Like drugs, for instance.. when you are young they are fun and make you feel incredible.. when you are old, you realize you short circuit’ed your brain’s reward system.. overloading it by hitting level 11.. this makes the real spice of life and its successes feel boring by comparison.. like becoming noseblind to a smell.. but.. it is already too late at that point..

    基督教的意义远不止圣经,突然间动动手指,宣称奥丁的故事,将使您的知识遗产泛滥成灾。

  362. Robin Hood 说:
    @Seraphim

    An evil collusion between a tyrant and a man of God
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/19/nick-cohen-pussy-riot-putin

    Russian Orthodoxy has always been a state religion. The communists persecuted believers, but the KGB found many collaborators in the church who were prepared to put obedience to established power first. For this reason, it is a mistake to dismiss Kirill’s support for Putin as simple cynicism. He believes in autocracy and hates liberalism as much as his predecessors did and Putin does. That Kirill is liberalism’s avowed enemy becomes clear from reading his Freedom and Responsibility: A Search for Harmony. If its Amazon ranking is a guide, hardly any English reader has glanced at it, which is a pity because although the cleric’s arguments are drear when they are not repellent, they provide as a good an illustration as any of how opposition to human rights can be covered with smells and bells. …

    As always, the trouble with cultural exceptionalism is that it has no honest way of arguing with members of that culture who want change. You can search Patriarch Kirill’s writings in vain for any acknowledgement that Russians who protest against corruption or the denial of democratic rights or the crimes of the wars in the Caucasus have a case that deserves a hearing. They are just the tools of “puppet masters”; the propagators of the debased ideologies of “protestant theologians” and “Jewish philosophers”.

  363. Robin Hood 说:
    @Seraphim

    Nice Gnostics – Christian ‘Mystics of Knowledge’ CHANGED
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/gnostic.html

    For early Christians, Christ had NO physical existence. For them, he was not born, nor did he die. “Jesus” in the early Gnostic gospels (Gospel of Thomas, Odes of Solomon, etc. ) is a teacher, a guide to spiritual development. He is placed in no historical context nor is he crucified. Christ was the spirit or wisdom of God, present in all things. To attain self knowledge was to know “Christ.” …

    Mainstream Christianity maintains the deceit that its collection of Jesus anecdotes and incidents are reports of actual comings and goings of their godman and were told “from the beginning” by his followers and fans. Collectively they buttress the falsehood that what passes for mainstream Christianity or “orthodoxy” originated with JC himself (rather than in the 4th century with the newly empowered hierarchs of the Church). With this lie in place, all the alternative stories told for 300 years by “heterodox” opponents, necessarily had to be denounced as pious fantasy. Were the heterodox to be the only liars it would indeed be curious. For it would mean that all the foremost Christian writers for over three centuries – without exception leaders and bishops of their Christian fraternities – wilfully suppressed an obvious and divine truth and chose instead to invent their own exotic fantasies. …

    Despite drawing in many Christian “intellectuals” the advocates of an ethereal Jesus were undermined by literalists whose ambition lay in establishing an organised Church.

    Often “liberal” and inclusive, gnostic Christianity found itself directly at odds with all who argued for unquestioning faith and a blind acceptance of dogma. Gnosticism’s free spirited speculations on the divine had thrived in the Pax Romana of the Antonine emperors. But in the militarised corporate state of the later empire it had no useful role to play.

    The theorists of early Christianity fell by the wayside as the sycophants and schemers triumphed. In any event, a purely spiritual saviour faced a problem of acceptance in a mass market accustomed to visible gods and idolatry. Their less gifted but no less ambitious brethren toadied to the masters of Rome and sought accommodation with the caesars. Increasingly they compromised with traditional paganism and expropriated its iconography. Eventually they would find their man in Constantine.

    • 哈哈: SeekerofthePresence
  364. Incitatus 说:
    @Yoska Ruslo

    “Brief history half of it [America] ruled by Jews.”

    Hardly. Weren’t many around in the 17C. Most arrived in the early 20C. Tell us why they matter.

    “Yes you can trace your family to 260 AD, And I’m sure they were relatives of Roman Emperor Valerianus”

    You flatter me. He was an early Christian (a criminal) before Constantine’s Edict of Milan 313 AD.

    “Please spare me of horrible insults like “You’re a miserable failure in the private sector.””

    Never thus insulted you. Confusing me with someone else?

  365. Robin Hood 说:

    Paul and the Acts of the Apostles – A Ripping Yarn
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ripping-yarn.html

    One of the most startling facts of early Christianity – yet one seldom commented upon – is that complete obscurity surrounds the foundation of its churches in all of the major cities of the Roman Empire. Those very churches which would define dogma, marshall the legions of the faithful and wield state power for millennia, present the interested enquirer with a mystery: How did they begin?

    Legends and “traditions” abound, of course, and apologetics is quite insistent that the “rapid growth of the church” is a primary proof and validation of the Resurrection and the claims of Christianity. But sober historical evidence is absent.

    Into this void in real history leaks a wondrous tale of the pioneers of the faith, Acts of the Apostles. This fable synthesizes an idealized version of events in a world of tireless apostles and bold evangelization; of recalcitrant Jews easily neutralized; of fraternal disputes quickly resolved; of cruel persecutions met with stoicism and forbearance; of divine and angelic interventions; and of immediate, mass conversions.

    Reality, however, tells a different story. Unlike in the later centuries of Christian conquest, when ambitious missionaries, backed by armies, destroyed indigenous gods and compelled the acceptance of Christ, early Christianity of necessity spread by an entirely different method. But the idea that the mechanism at work was the “bold evangelism” of a handful of charismatic apostles, armed only with the power of the Holy Spirit, is a fairy tale which should convince only the faithful.

    “There is something close to a black hole in the Christian story which lies tantalisingly between the events described in the New Testament and the emergence of something that looks more like conventional history in the second century.”

    – Edward Stourton, In the Footsteps of Saint Paul, p181.

    In truth, even the Church itself, reliant primarily on the first ecclesiastical historian Eusebius, has absolutely NO IDEA how its cardinal institutions began. Below the headline heroics of a handful of star performers, is conjectured numberless ranks of unnamed believers, who migrated their faith across the Mediterranean world in an unstoppable wave of Christian devotion. No thought is given to the possibility that “Christian-like” cults arose independently of any melodrama in Judaea, or that the antecedents of the Imperial cult, Mithraism, and myriad pagan enthusiasms fed into a nebulous “solar deity movement” in many towns and cities, a movement that lacked cohesion and direction until the Roman state itself adopted the ideology and regularized its dogmas.

    Of Rome, Alexandria, Antioch and Carthage – the four leading capitals of the Roman empire – secular history has much to say about their churches and acrimonious sectarian disputes from the 4th century onward, that is, from a time after the church had grasped power. But the first faltering steps of the organized Christian faith remain opaque. Even churches which “feature” in the New Testament story, such as at Ephesus, Damascus and Athens, have curiously uncertain origins.

    Many of the micro-dramas of Acts are confined to marginal settlements and towns which disappeared from the historical record. The tale, even excusing the miraculous as pious embellishment, is a poor fit with what little “fact” can be gleaned from secular history, a handful of epistles ostensibly written by the main player, and commonsense. Every step of the supposed epic evangelical achievement – the glorious winning of hearts and minds for Christ – raises conundrums and “difficulties” for those compelled to believe that, somehow, “truth” is to be found here.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  366. Seraphim 说:
    @Robin Hood

    You cannot be unaware that all these ‘criticisms’, ‘objections’, ‘conundrums’ have been comprehensively answered and refuted. Not even alluding to the evidences that exist is a proof of dishonesty and an insult to our intelligence. But that’s what atheists do.
    “There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn’t want to see. There is no worse deaf man than the one who doesn’t want to hear. And there is no worse madman than the one who doesn’t want to understand.”
    ”Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight”.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
    • 不同意: Robin Hood
  367. FedUp 说:
    @Anon

    Agreed. +99% of christians are pathological liars insofar as anything *感知* by them as threats to their “faith.” Makes sense, since they’re severely traumatized wherein they believe they’ll boil in a lava pit (their bodyless soul, at least) if they upset the Big Bad Invisible Jewish volcano demon (((yahweh & rabbi yeshua)))…burn, eternally. And they know that in this life, their fellow christ-cucks will not approve if they “lose” their “faith.”

    They get us at birth. It’s very difficult to face this stuff, about as pointless as is the christian “strategy” for “dealing” with the threat posed by Jews (by dripping water on them, to “convert” them, & otherwise never molesting them, “sicut judaeis non,” the church has *总是* protected them when Aryans get fed up).

    (((christianity))) is a lobotomy for the Aryan man, it cripples the avg victim’s ability to engage in curiosity/logical thought/bravery/etc.; and it turns us into a lesser version of Jews (who serve Jews regardless as to their claims). Pay close attention to the “pro Aryan christ” cucks, all the serious ones desperately *想* to be Jews. Can’t be said enough.

    Alex Linder (VNN Forum) & Cesar Tort (“The West’s Darkest Hour”) each have a great grasp of this issue. If you’re capable & willing to think, find their work.

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 不同意: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Seraphim
  368. Incitatus 说:
    @Adûnâi

    “Who determines the falsehood”?

    Each person for himself of course. Ultimately history (usually way too late). Oft disputed.

    “Russian anarchy mostly stems from the traitorous liberals”

    What are their demands? What are their ‘methods’ of persuasion? Are they violent? Or do they simply embarrass the régime with counter-narratives?

    At what point does someone who disagrees become a traitor?

    Russia vs. Ukraine is beyond my interest. Think the USA should stay out it, just as we’d condemn foreign interference in neighboring states (ala the Zimmerman telegram Jan 1917).

    That said, what are you doing in Ukraine? Have you really thought about it?

    “There are no true ideas – only the victorious and the vanquished.”

    You sound like Hitler. A Manichean, Hobbesian world. Best illustrated by Hieronymus Bosch.

    “I would prefer AOC to be President of the USA and the remaining and diminishing Whites disarmed.”

    LOL. That’s not going to happen. Who funds AOC?

    [更多]

    Whatever the funding, she will not attract major support. She’s a valuable thermostat mouthing/measuring current fringe theory.

    Of course in Russia she would be long dead?

    “Freedom of speech is a disgusting illusion of the clearly Christian system, and I eagerly await its final form.”

    You’re against individual freedom to express oneself? You agree with Clubfoot Joe Göbbels, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and the lot? The individual is the servant of the state? Sad.

    What do propose instead?

    “Now this is surprising to me, Incitatus. I thought you wouldn’t stoop so low. Everyone knows that both sides had been courting Hitler.”

    Tell us where FDR courted Hitler. Be specific. Spare no words.

    “Stalin…was cucked out of helping Prague when the Westerners sold the Czechs in Munich.”

    Perhaps France and the UK should have partnered early with Stalin. But what’s that to do with FDR? Any Americans sign Chamberlain’s ‘Peace in Our Time’? Don’t think so. Nor did any sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact .

    “For the sake of improving USAAF firebombing capabilities, a mock-up German Village was built up and repeatedly burned down. It contained full-scale replicas of German residential homes.”

    Dugway Proving Ground? Constructed 1943 (two years after Hitler declared war on America? So what?

    Germany’s testing ground was Spain 1937: Madrid, Guernica (26 April 1937), etc. No need for models, go full force murdering civilians, level and burn towns, all in accord with Douhet’s theories:

    “Fear, which cannot be stimulated in peaceful training of troops, is very important because it affects morale. Morale is more important in winning battles than weapons. Continuously repeated concentrated air attacks have the most effect on the morale of the enemy.”
    – Oberstleutnant [later Generalfeldmarschall] Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen, field commander of the Condor Legion 1937

    It worked. Warsaw 1939:

    先生们,您已经看到了华沙的废墟。 请向那些仍在考虑继续战争的伦敦和巴黎政治家们发出警告。”
    – Adolf Hitler 5 Oct 1939 Address to Foreign Press, Warsaw [Beevor ‘The Second World War’ p. 35].

    18,000-25,000 civilians were killed. 10% of the city was destroyed, an additional 40% heavily damaged; the garrison suffered 140,000 casualties. All with Stalin’s blessing (?).

    No need to mention Rotterdam 1940. Here’s what Richthofen penned two years later:

    “In the late afternoon began my two-day major assault on Stalingrad with good incendiary effects right from the start”
    – Generalfeldmarschall Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen War Diary 23 Aug 1942.

    Two days later he declares the city completely destroyed with no remaining worthwhile targets; 40,000 (in a city of 600,000) are killed in the first week [Beevor ‘Stalingrad’ p.106, Beevor ‘The Second World War’ p.337].

    All well before the USA built Dugway Proving Ground.

    Richthofen, as before, made Stalingrad a real world test (models not required) in terror, killing, destruction. So why do you mention Dugway? To prove American were smarter than Richthofen? Thank you!

    Poor Richthofen. Suffered a brain tumor. Died (age 49) 12 July 1945. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    “America should have helped Germany, their racial brethren, of course.”

    LOL! Who did George Washington fight at Trenton 26 Dec 1776? Hessian mercenaries hired by the Brits! Parse that!

    保持健康,Adûnâi。

  369. Seraphim 说:
    @FedUp

    The truth is that the Christians do perceive the anti-Christian ravings not as a threat against their faith, but against themselves. Physical violence always lurks behind the verbal insults to the faith.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  370. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Franz

    Yahweh tells his people he’s “the only god” then directly after tells them he does good, evil and whatever else he wants.

    As opposed to your idea of multiple “gods,” presumably taking on various specialities… the “god of good,” the “god of evil,” and so on? After all there is good and evil (with your eurapean kind qualifying as most evil) in this world, right?

    Jewish theologians always called Christians “pagans”.

    Yes, pagans should be called the mindless frickin’ pagans, that they indeed are! Not that the juden with their “in-his-image” mangod, are any better at comprehending God. It makes them pagan too.

    With the pathetic facade of Christianity’s pseudo-monotheism crumbling, you godless pagans are trying desperately to find some refuge in the 现实 of your pagan polytheist existence. You will never find it.

    This actually reminds me of some random extremist pagan hindoo in some forum proclaiming, “monotheism is childish.” Both of your kind are acting/reciting from the same pagan cookbook (“the body is the temple of God,” is another similar trope between the two of you).

    This is the reason why I call Christianity, Hinduism-lite. Both of your kind are spiritual savages, and it is laughable that you can take on the logicality of pure unbending monotheism. We will sever your spiritual jugulars whenever you try, every time.

    Christians just can’t see what a compliment that is.

    哈哈!

    It is like, being a undisputed blithering idiot (and in the spiritual context, you most certainly are), being called an idiot, and to reconcile your pathetic minds to that sad fact, you all are simply trying to delude yourselves that being an idiot is a great thing. 😀

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @Franz
  371. Anonymous[195]• 免责声明 说:
    @anonymous

    You’re a churlish fool. The origin and heart of Hinduism is monotheism. It is the recognition that All is One. You cannot or will not admit to this; you insist that God is One and All is God’s creation, which is somehow separate or subordinate to God. If my body is not God’s body, then whose is it? Islam has elevated a mere concept above reality. Reality is pantheism and panentheism. This is the true monotheism. You on the other hand are a xenotheist, worshipping the unreal, the abstract, the phantom of your true self. If you want to live your life sequestered from God then so be it. But don’t ask the rest of us to accept your petty limitations.

    • 同意: Franz
  372. gregor 说:

    I heard Skrbina on a podcast once. He’s a fan of some of Ted Kaczynski’s anti-technology ideas. The Jews have him on the Canary Mission naughty list for BDS activities, so he can’t be too bad a guy.

    Based on the summary provided here, it sounds like Skrbina has ventured beyond his expertise here and I very much doubt many scholars of early Christianity would take his thesis seriously. The claim that Jesus never existed is popular among internet atheists but it has virtually no support among scholars specializing in NT and early Christianity. I get why people dismiss the miraculous and legendary aspects of the NT but I don’t understand why some people insist on overreaching with theories about Jesus not existing and the whole thing being a hoax. If Jesus existed (which he almost certainly did), then the origin of the Christian movement almost certainly goes back to Jesus himself and the time shortly after his death when the belief arose among his followers that he’d been resurrected and would soon return. The gospels indicate the Jesus himself had an apocalyptic worldview and many of the early Christians did as well, including Paul. The verses cited from Galatians and Corinthians are very typical apocalyptic verses.

    Paul no doubt played a pivotal role in spreading Christianity but that doesn’t mean he invented it out of whole cloth or that he didn’t really believe in it. In terms of motivation, I don’t see why Paul would be going around the Mediterranean, getting thrown in jail, trying to keep a minor and at the time rather inconsequential religion going. Christianity started among Jews but had minimal success since Jesus didn’t fit well with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. If Christianity was going to grow at all, it was going to be among the Pagans. There’s no need to assume any of this was some grand deliberate scheme. Sometimes things just happen.

    • 谢谢: Gapeseed, RVBlake
    • 回复: @David Skrbina
  373. Franz 说:
    @anonymous

    We will sever your spiritual jugulars whenever you try, every time.

    Thanks for this unsolicited expression of your faith and the reason so many places of worship are being deserted every day.

  374. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Indeed, there are similarities between some pagan stories and Christian stories. I think you approach it the wrong way, missing the forest for the trees.

    As someone not formally trained in theology or apologetics on a high level, I can’t claim to know why that is, although I suppose Joseph Campbell’s unearthed archetypes speak to us on a spiritual level and are written on our hearts so that Jesus’s story of sacrifice and redemption would ring true across cultures. For example, that Christ and Odin both hung on trees in religions without any cultural overlap whatsoever (to my knowledge) in a sense strengthens the probability that there is broad truth in both, although the selflessness of Christ is far preferable to the slyness and inconstancy of Odin, whose religion slowly faded because other parts of his story, while entertaining, did not strike the deepest mystic chords as does Christ. That subjective preference for Christ is buttressed by the witness of the Christian martyrs, many of whom chose death over apostasy because, even without seeing Jesus, they believed in the beauty of the sublime message. Like with the existence of St. Paul in our prior thread, it had to be true. If God were to reveal Himself to teach us how to love Him and our neighbors, how could there be a better way than by example? But perhaps God reveals Himself across cultures and religions where there is but a glimmer of that story, such as with Odin or Osiris. That should not surprise anyone who believes in a merciful God who has, I believe, written Truth in our hearts, pagan, Christian, and Jew alike.

    The Christian message of a loving God commanding us to love in kind and sacrifice as He did rings most true to me. There is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed, and in your hunt for historical certitude (or really, in your hunt to disprove Christianity), you miss a bigger picture.

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  375. Robin Hood 说:

    Philo of Alexandria – Witness to Jesus?
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/philo.html

    From a distance of 2000 years Jesus Christ appears in glorious technicolor, a veritable rainbow of the power and the glory. Every child “knows” his story, every individual “recognizes” his slender frame, his flowing chestnut hair, his kindly blue eyes. But up close and personal our superhero evaporates into the ether, a phantom that leaves no trace upon the paper, no imprint in the historical record. Not only does no one notice Jesus during his supposed lifetime; Jesus notices nothing of the wider world into which he makes his spectral appearance.

    As for Christianity’s audacious claim that its hero introduced something new into ethics and morality, that assertion is wholly fallacious. Long before any mythical Nazarene had epithets of wisdom put into his mouth, other – real, yet mortal – philosophers taught a morality of brotherly love and human compassion. Christianity merely sequestered and then ignored those ideals.

    The “witnesses” who saw and heard nothing

    As it happens, we have an excellent witness to events in Judaea and the Jewish diaspora in the first half of the first century AD: Philo of Alexandria (c25 BC-47 AD).

    Philo was an old man when he led an embassy from the Jews to the court of Emperor Gaius Caligula. The year was 39-40 AD. Philo clearly, then, lived at precisely the time that “Jesus of Nazareth” supposedly entered the world to a chorus of angels, enthralled the multitudes by performing miracles, and got himself crucified.

    Philo was also in the right place to give testimony of a messianic contender. A Jewish aristocrat and leader of the large Jewish community of Alexandria, we know that Philo spent time in Jerusalem (On Providence) where he had intimate connections with the royal house of Judaea. His brother, Alexander the “alabarch” (chief tax official), was one of the richest men in the east, in charge of collecting levies on imports into Roman Egypt. Alexander’s great wealth financed the silver and gold sheathing which adorned the doors of the Temple (Josephus, War 5.205). Alexander also loaned a fortune to Herod Agrippa I (Antiquities 18).

    One of Alexander’s sons, and Philo’s nephews, Marcus, was married to Berenice, daughter of Herod Agrippa, tetrarch of Galilee and Peraea, 39-40. After the exile of Herod Antipas – villain of the Jesus saga – he ruled as King of the Jews, 41-44 AD. Another nephew was the “apostate” Julius Alexander Tiberius, Prefect of Egypt and also Procurator of Judaea itself (46-48 AD).

    Much as Josephus would, a half century later, Philo wrote extensive apologetics on the Jewish religion and commentaries on contemporary politics. About thirty manuscripts and at least 850,000 words are extant. Philo offers commentary on all the major characters of the Pentateuch and, as we might expect, mentions Moses more than a thousand times.

    Yet Philo says not a word about Jesus, Christianity nor any of the events described in the New Testament. In all this work, Philo makes not a single reference to his alleged contemporary “Jesus Christ”, the godman who supposedly was perambulating up and down the Levant, exorcising demons, raising the dead and causing earthquake and darkness at his death.

    With Philo’s close connection to the house of Herod, one might reasonably expect that the miraculous escape from a royal prison of a gang of apostles (Acts 5.18,40), or the second, angel-assisted, flight of Peter, even though chained between soldiers and guarded by four squads of troops (Acts 12.2,7) might have occasioned the odd footnote. But not a murmur. Nothing of Agrippa “vexing certain of the church” or killing “James brother of John” with the sword (Acts 12.1,2).

    Strange, but only if we believe Jesus and his merry men existed and that they established the church. If we recognize that the Christian fable was still at an early stage of development when Philo was pondering the relationship of god and man, there is nothing strange here at all.

    What is very significant, however, is that Philo’s theological speculations helped the Christians fabricate their own notions of a godman. …

    无处人

    The common assumption that Jesus was a peripatetic preacher, strolling through Palestine, though appealing, is unsupported by any evidence. There are NO contemporary sources that corroborate the existence of Jesus. All the godman’s pithy “wisdom” sayings predate the gospels, many taken from the works of Philo and Seneca. https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html

    The earliest writers about him knew nothing of what were later supposed to be the major events in his life. When Christian texts eventually appeared which fleshed out a few months of human existence for Jesus, they were hopelessly contradictory and full of historical errors and anachronisms. https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/belief.html

    In short, the “historical Jesus” is a pious fraud, no less so than his divinity as “son of God” and “person” of the Trinity.

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  376. Robin Hood 说:
    @Seraphim

    The church who didn’t do them any harm? Time to study up. See, e.g. Christianization of the Roman world – The terrifying history of a morbid cult that destroyed the ancient world. https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/darkness.html

  377. Robin Hood 说:
    @Seraphim

    “The truth is that the Christians do perceive the anti-Christian ravings not as a threat against their faith, but against themselves. Physical violence always lurks behind the verbal insults to the faith.”

    Winter of the World – The Terrible Cost of “Christendom”
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/winter.html

    Christianity was the first creed in history to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Raised to the status of State religion the Christian Church reigned over the destruction of civilization. As the centuries passed religious barbarism grew ever more vicious.

    1000 Years of Carnage & Barbarity in the name of Christ
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

    Enforcing the Faith – Missionaries or Murderers?
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm

    The Christian Heaven may have been a vain folly but the Christian Hell was real enough. For more than a thousand years sadists in the uniform of Christ terrorised and brutalised a continent and then exported that terror to the four corners of the globe. The Church, which, with a satanic twist of humour, claimed to be the instrument of ‘Christ’s loving kindness’ , taught a brutalised and impoverished people new meanings to the words pain and suffering… For those who dared to be different: Incarceration – starvation – psychological torment and terror – laceration – mutilation – strangulation – suffocation – crushing – choking – burning – garrotting – slow and agonizing death. Welcome to a Christian Europe!

    Burning Times – Auto-da-fé. Act of Faith Brutal vengeance from the men of God
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  378. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Levtraro

    we consider that the most laughable are Judaism and Islam.

    Most laughable, you say?! Lol!

    Let me ask you… have you heard of an extremist pagan faith called, Hinduism? This is a faith which worships queer deities, rapist deities, symbols of human genitalia, deities with animal heads, and so on.

    You really can’t make this up, because if someone were to do that, a sane society would feel compelled to lock the accursed person up in an asylum. But, we have a billion people who buy into this insaneness. And, we have a few other billions who also believe that God is man-like, and vice-versa. Sheesh!!

    It is indeed strange, and this should totally reflect on your kind’s retarded level intelligence (at least in matters spiritual), that you find the true monotheism of Islam as “most laughable.” You are not applying your brains, but blindly acting on your innate prejudices.

    As you laugh at us, we laugh and spit on you godless soul-diseased racist vermin. Fair enough?

  379. anonymous[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Jake

    The only thing that makes Jews fearful is the possibility that historic Christianity and Christendom can be revived fully.

    As your pestilential (of the soul) pagan godless faith crumbles around you, you still hold delusions about its revival? Lol!

    May God only increase your humiliation, here and after.

    You and your kind, Jake, are a curse on this earth. You are indeed destined to burn for all eternity, but your shrill vehemence true monotheism, will reserve you a place in the worst pits of Hell.

    That is because, it is entirely possible that your kind will influence others (children, other family members) down the same path of Islamophobia and ultimately utter damnation. This is the reason why you are a curse on this earth.

  380. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Interesting for sure, but is Philo really an objective witness? Sounds like his family was in the class of Jewish elites that clashed with Jesus, and he could have easily thought that ignoring Jesus in order to not give the Christian movement oxygen was the way to go.

    • 回复: @RVBlake
    , @Robin Hood
  381. Seraphim 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Obviously you are a deranged individual. What ‘trauma’ have you suffered from an ‘abusive father’?
    Was he telling you that you are going to go to hell if you jerk off?

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  382. Seraphim 说:
    @Fenrir

    The werewolves roaming the streets! Actually the lunatics escaped from the asylum howling at the moon.

  383. @Realist

    “There is no rational basis for any religion. ”

    They are all based on faith. There is something out there in the universe but our puny minds cannot comprehend what that is.

  384. RVBlake 说:
    @Gapeseed

    The first question in my mind, as well. May account for the relative silence from Josephus, as well.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  385. @anonymous

    Does not such arrogant language as yours usually suggest error? It sounds as though you are more interested in condemning others than in understanding the truth.

    Christ is the secret of the ages. God will reveal Him only to those who approach Him with humility and love.

    Hate is not the way. Let love, humility, and a determined search for the truth guide your footsteps. Call upon God in earnest and He will show you the way.

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  386. RobinG 说:
    @Maowasayali

    “A Joint Resolution To Designate March 26, 1991, As Education Day, USA.”

    Can you supply a link to this? NOT an article about it, but the Resolution itself. Thanks.

    • 回复: @Maowasayali
  387. Realist 说:
    @europeasant

    They are all based on faith.

    同意。

    There is something out there in the universe but our puny minds cannot comprehend what that is.

    There may be much more highly developed beings, but I do not believe there is an omnipotent, omnipresent god.

  388. anon[161]• 免责声明 说:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    “If I had the choice only between Christianity and atheism…”

    So, what is your belief (system)?

    • 回复: @Laurent Guyénot
  389. @europeasant

    There is something out there in the universe….

    Hymn of the Cherubim…

    The “something out there” is Christ, Creator of the Heavens and the earth, the seen and the unseen. Seek Him and all questions will be answered, all grace and truth given.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
  390. C.T. 说: • 您的网站
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    关于都灵裹尸布,我全职研究了两年的索赔!

    这些是我的结论:

    https://eliminatedleaves.wordpress.com

    • 不同意: SeekerofthePresence
    • 回复: @MomsBasement
  391. @gregor

    Thanks, gregor! I’d like to think I’m not too bad of a guy! Maybe my connection to TK and BDS give me some street cred, not sure. But I don’t back down from a fight, that’s for sure. And I’m rigorous in my analysis.

    True, most “scholars of Christianity” would not accept my thesis, but that says nothing about its viability. Most scholars buy the whole Jesus story, more or less in its standard form, and they are certainly not about to impugn any Jews in the process. But the facts demand otherwise.

    More to the point, I do NOT require that Jesus never existed. In fact, the OPPOSITE: I assume he lived (and died) as a mortal man, a Jewish rabbi, who advocated for the down-trodden and against Roman rule, and got himself crucified as a result. That (likely) true kernel of history forms the basis for the broader Pauline hoax that came along two or three decades later.

    The problem is that mortal Jesus almost certainly was no miracle man: no one wrote anything about him, pro or con, for literally decades — during or after his life. At least, nothing that survives. It is impossible that neither Romans nor pagans would have written nothing about such a miracle man. If a mortal man lived and died, and then decades later, someone says, in all seriousness, that he was son of God, raised the dead, etc, etc, then that’s a lie. And if it’s a lie for selfish reasons, then its a hoax.

    Paul and his cabal worked hard to promote their hoax because they detested both Roman rule and the pagan masses, and wanted to do whatever they could to undermine both. Being Jewish fanatics, they were ready to risk their lives if they thought they could damage the Roman cause. Seeing early, if minor, success, they continued to press their hoax to the limit. It was working, it was drawing in pagans, it was pulling people away from the Roman worldview — why not keep it up?

    Read the book, and give the full argument a chance.

    • 哈哈: SeekerofthePresence
    • 回复: @RVBlake
    , @gregor
  392. @RobinG

    “A Joint Resolution To Designate March 26, 1991, As Education Day, USA” = Public Law 102-14.

    It begins thus:

    Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;

    Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws;

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-congress/house-joint-resolution/104/text

  393. RVBlake 说:
    @David Skrbina

    As noted in the Gospels, our only source for “historical” Jesus, did he even advocate against Roman rule? It was my understanding that as an apocalypticist, Jesus’s sole concern was the imminence of the Kingdom of God. All earthly kingdoms would be swept away before the arrival of the Son of Man. Those who point out that the strictures of the Sermon of the Mount are unworkable as a plan for living are correct; they were intended to qualify one for the Kingdom of God, expected to arrive any day.

    • 回复: @David Skrbina
  394. @RVBlake

    Right — the focus on some unknown, future “Kingdom of God” (which is “within”) is supposed to sweep away all earthly kingdoms, esp Rome. Consider:

    * Day of the Lord will not come “unless the rebellion comes first” (2 Thes 2)
    * “God of peace will soon crush Satan (Rome)” (Rom 16)
    * “rulers of this world are doomed to pass away” (1 Cor 2)
    * “the form of this world is passing away” (1 Cor 7)
    * Christ will “destroy every rule and every authority and power” (1 Cor 15)
    * “Put on the whole armor of God…against the world rulers of the present darkness” (Eph 6)
    * “nation will rise up against nation” (Mk 13)
    * “I have come not to bring peace, but a sword” (Mt 10)
    * “I came to cast fire upon the Earth” (Lk 12)
    * “as for these enemies of mine…bring them here and slay them before me” (Lk 19)–yes, this is a parable, but it’s intended as an allegory for Jesus.
    * “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Lk 22)
    * “Whole world is under control of the evil one (Rome)” (1 Jn)

    I’d call that anti-Rome.

  395. I’ve just read half of prof. Skrbina’s book. It is a short book, and a quick and easy read. My impression is that this book was based on a course for undergraduate students with little prior knowledge of Biblical scholarship. If so, it must be a very enjoyable course. And the case is built in a very efficient manner, logical, in simple language. The author comes out as a good teacher, no arrogance, a kind of Socratic tone.
    Being already aware of most the issues, I found the first 3 chapters, which introduce the different schools, and the basics of Jewish and Christian history, a bit slow. But chapter 4 is a killer and taught me a lot. It would make a fine article by itself, and if only for this, I recommend this book. It is an impressive synthesis of everything that has been written about the Jews prior to the appearance of Christianity; many of those passages I wasn’t familiar with. Here is the inescapable conclusion:

    So what can we conclude from this brief overview of some 600 years of the ancient world? To say that the Jews were disliked is an understatement. The critiques come from all around the Mediterranean region, and from a wide variety of cultural perspectives. And they are uniformly negative. I note here that it’s not a case of ‘cherry-picking’ the worst comments and ignoring the good ones. The remarks are all negative; there simply are no positive opinions on the Jews or early Christians. A reasonable conclusion is that there is something about the Jewish culture that inspires disgust and hatred. As the saying goes, “When one person hates you, it’s probably them; when everyone hates you, it’s probably you.” Arrogance, insularity, superstition, self-absorption, and misanthropy surely all play a part. Monotheism is also a likely contributor, though indirectly.

    From chapter 5, David gets into his main thesis regarding Paul. Of course, if you already believe that Paul never existed, you will resist following his hypothesis. But his starting point remains valid: someone did invent Christianity. And this someone, or this group of people, were Jews, and they invented Christianity after the destruction of their cherished temple by the Romans. Did they want to bring something nice to the Romans? The hypothesis that Christianity was conceived as a deadly poison for Rome is something I find more and more plausible, almost obvious. But who? If not Paul, then someone else. Someone in the 2nd century, under Titus, perhaps. That would make little difference. But I’m still in the middle of chapter 5 (page 72, 60 percent of the book), so I’ll finish the book tonight and write my impression tomorrow.

    • 回复: @Laurent Guyénot
  396. RVBlake: “Those who point out that the strictures of the Sermon of the Mount are unworkable as a plan for living are correct; they were intended to qualify one for the Kingdom of God, expected to arrive any day. ”

    It seems clear from the crucifixion story spelled out in the Gospels that Jesus himself expected God to show himself and intervene at the last moment, perhaps then to destroy the world, for why else cry out, as it is recounted that Jesus did before dying, “God, God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46) And why else say, as Jesus did: “27 For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Matt. 16:28) Nevertheless, his failed prophecy has not discouraged his followers, who do all sorts of mental gymnastics to explain it away, just as the followers of contemporary preachers who predict the end of the world always have a good excuse for why their prophecies fail.

    Still, responding to the idea that Christianity was a malicious hoax, it’s strange that such a failed prophecy would be deliberately inserted into the narrative many decades after it was clear that it had failed. Logically, you would think that this would discredit the religion and its purported founder instead of helping the hoax succeed. But then, as Dawkins says, “The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.” Making faith instead of reason the underpinning of Christianity was a stroke of genius, and in large measure what separates it from Hellenistic predecessors such as Platonism, Stoicism and Cynicism.

    • 回复: @Adûnâi
  397. David Skrbina: “Maybe my connection to TK and BDS give me some street cred, not sure. ”

    Christians tend to give their religion credit for the successes of technological civilization, sometimes even going so far as to say that without Christianity, it wouldn’t have been possible. Above, MacDonald seems to fall into this camp when he writes: “The era of Western expansion was accomplished by Christian explorers and colonists. Until quite recently, the flourishing of science, technology, and art occurred entirely within a Christian context.”

    Do you believe that the triumph of Christianity was an indispensable precondition of technological civilization, and does TK?

    • 回复: @David Skrbina
  398. @Laurent Guyénot

    Correction: I meant Hadrian, not Titus, for the 2ne century.
    My impression after finishing the book (except the appendixes). Skrbina makes a good case that Paul’s message is fundamentally, and intentionally, detrimental to the social organicity of the Empire. Paul says: Turn away from the Roman gods, to the Jewish God. Rejecting the gods was a political act, not just a religious act. It included refusing to go through the simple motion of the public cult of the emperor, which was nothing but the manifestation of loyalty to the Empire. Paul said: Rome is doomed, God will soon destroy this arrogant empire. The poor will inherit the kingdom. “God whose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise…”
    I have some critics, though. Skrbina’s scenario of the writing of the gospels (by the followers of Paul?) would have needed to take into account the relevant scholarship, e.g., the fact that Matthew and Luke used a common source of logia (which may very well have been originally ascribed to someone else than Jesus; I have myself made the case that most were originally attributed to John the Baptist), or the notion that there are at least two conflicting layers in John’s Gospels. I’am afraid that Skrbina is here simplifying to the extreme what is in fact quite complicated. Speaking of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John as if they were four persons is a bit embarrassing for anyone aware of the complexity of historical criticism.
    Also lacking is a convincing explanation of Paul’s quarrel with the Pharisees, and, more generally, an attempt to contextualize the birth of Christinity withing the never ending quarrels inside Judaism, in particular the existence of Jewish gnosticism (see my comment 348), which seems to me very relevant to the Paul’s brand of Judaism. As a whole, I am not convinced by Skribna’s rejection of the “mythic Jesus” theory. And actually, I don’t see why it would necessarily conflict with Skribna’s thesis of a deliberate hoax: whether Paul taught about a real or a mythic Jesus, he was still trying to convert Gentils to the Jewish, anti-Roman God. (“Our god is your god too, but he has chosen us”).
    Some other points I would disagree with. For instance, Nietzsche’s idea (a few good quotes by Nietzsche there, by the way) that part of Paul’s deception was to introduce the belief in the afterlife “to deprive the world of value”: virtually all Romans already believed in the afterlife, and this is part of universal “natural” religion. This is absolutely not a Christian idea.
    My conclusion: the merit of this book is to “address the question of motive, something that’s utterly lacking in the other skeptics,” as the author says. I have myself argued fo the need to investigate the question of motive in my article “How Yahweh conquered Rome”, using Barbiero’s The Secret Society of Moses as a starting point. I recommend Barbiero’s book, which makes a similar but slightly different argument from Skrbina’s: Christianity as a Jewish plot, no just to undermine Rome, but rather to take over Rome, which is what happened with the Catholic Church.
    As Skrbina points out, it is highly unlikely that Christianity just spread as a rumor or a story that people started to find convincing “naturally”. “Even in ancient times, people were not idiots”. And “Paul was a clever man, could he really have fallen so completely for a bogus tale of a Jewish messiah?” So manipulation, that is the Jewish craft of lying, is involved. And I agree that it is high time that we start to consider this point seriously. How can we ever emancipate ourselves of Jewish Power if we refuse to admit to what extent we have been fooled. Skrbina makes a good remark about Luther calling Jews the masters of lies, yet believing that the Jesus story, invented by Jews, is the truth. How pathetic!

    • 同意: Robin Hood
    • 谢谢: steinbergfeldwitzcohen
    • 回复: @Seraphim
    , @David Skrbina
  399. @Anon

    Ah, yet another ignorant, hate-filled Christophobe, with what passes for his “mind” dissolving from an overdose of his own vitriolic rage and boundless hatred:

    Let go of your irrational denialism.
    教育自己。
    Try to be more tolerant.
    Accept Christ into your heart. You’ll feel better.

  400. Seraphim 说:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    This Anonymous finally revealed his true identity: an ISIS militant spewing hate language who cannot control himself. Who would tell the ‘Islamophobes’ that: ‘We will sever your spiritual jugulars whenever you try, every time’, ‘we would humiliate you’, in pure Quranic language?.

    • 同意: SeekerofthePresence
  401. Seraphim 说:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    It is not the first time that your knowledge of Roman history appears a bit jumbled. Pathetic indeed.

  402. gregor 说:
    @David Skrbina

    True, most “scholars of Christianity” would not accept my thesis, but that says nothing about its viability. Most scholars buy the whole Jesus story, more or less in its standard form, and they are certainly not about to impugn any Jews in the process. But the facts demand otherwise.

    Nowadays there’s not much of a taboo against attacking Jesus or Christianity, so I don’t think there’s much to prevent scholars from endorsing mythicism and related positions. On historical Jesus, I’ve read E.P. Sanders and Bart Ehrman and some other stuff on Jewish apocalypticism. And while those guys are pretty philo-Semitic, they are serious scholars and I wouldn’t dismiss them lightly. I think they make very good points about why many aspects of Jesus’ life and teachings are almost certainly historical simply because they contradict the later Christian narratives and therefore are unlikely to have been fabricated later on by Christians (or Jews). For instance, the gospels have to offer apologetic explanations for why Jesus was from Nazareth instead of Bethlehem, why he was baptized by John the Baptist, and so on. These aren’t likely to have been made up because they are somewhat inconvenient for the later narrative. Therefore the reason these things are found in the gospels is that Jesus probably was from Nazareth and probably was baptized by John the Baptist.

    More to the point, I do NOT require that Jesus never existed. In fact, the OPPOSITE: I assume he lived (and died) as a mortal man, a Jewish rabbi, who advocated for the down-trodden and against Roman rule, and got himself crucified as a result. That (likely) true kernel of history forms the basis for the broader Pauline hoax that came along two or three decades later.

    If Jesus was historical, then the most natural assumption is that Christianity was already a thing by the time Paul got involved. The strongest argument that could be made is that Paul hijacked a preexistent movement, although I don’t buy that either. All the evidence suggests early Christianity was very diverse and eclectic (especially the gnostic varieties). Moreover the letters of Paul imply that he had various “competitors,” i.e., other Christian ministers preaching their own flavors of Christianity. All of this is more consistent with it being an organic, “grass roots” movement, not some grand conspiracy.

    The problem is that mortal Jesus almost certainly was no miracle man: no one wrote anything about him, pro or con, for literally decades — during or after his life. At least, nothing that survives. It is impossible that neither Romans nor pagans would have written nothing about such a miracle man. If a mortal man lived and died, and then decades later, someone says, in all seriousness, that he was son of God, raised the dead, etc, etc, then that’s a lie. And if it’s a lie for selfish reasons, then its a hoax.

    My reading of Mark is that Jesus’ own followers did not believe he was a god during his life but some of them may have believed he was a messiah figure. Over time Jesus became more divine with the most important transitional point being his presumed resurrection. But just because the concept of who Jesus evolved over time that doesn’t mean we must assume this was the result of a deliberate hoax. Such an evolution could have 容易 occurred organically. I think you are projecting your own modern hyper-rational worldview onto the ancient world and are assuming that if people say they believe in something like resurrection or faith healing they must be “lying.” But magical and superstitious thinking is normal and many people sincerely believe in all kinds of extraordinary things.

    Given that Jesus’ disciples were illiterate Galileans we should hardly expect much contemporaneous documentation. Historical records back then are pretty thin even for relatively prominent individuals like Pontius Pilate, much less for Jesus of Nazareth! There’s nothing odd about the early Christians relying on oral tradition for the first few decades. Nor do I see why we should expect first century Roman writers to have spilled much ink over a fringe religious sect. Only in hindsight does this seem like an impossible oversight.

    Paul and his cabal worked hard to promote their hoax because they detested both Roman rule and the pagan masses, and wanted to do whatever they could to undermine both. Being Jewish fanatics, they were ready to risk their lives if they thought they could damage the Roman cause. Seeing early, if minor, success, they continued to press their hoax to the limit. It was working, it was drawing in pagans, it was pulling people away from the Roman worldview — why not keep it up?

    Read the book, and give the full argument a chance.

    I think a lot of the verses you interpret as expressing politically revolutionary sentiments are better understood in an apocalyptic framework. We have the evil present age and then the glorious age to come when the Son of Man (Jesus) comes (returns) and ushers in the kingdom. The evil present age includes not just Rome but the Jewish establishment as well. If anything early Christianity was in some ways 去政治化 in that it advocated withdrawing from worldly pursuits and passively awaiting the return of Jesus. Similarly, the Christian concept of the suffering, sacrificial messiah is actually very depoliticized relative to the traditional Jewish messiah concept (e.g. Cyrus).

    Having read Paul’s letters, I just don’t see the Jewish fanaticism or the hatred of pagans. He dedicated his life to ministering among the pagans. There was tension between the Jewish and pagan converts with some Jews refusing to eat with the pagans for example and insisting on the continued necessity of circumcision and Jewish dietary rules and so on. But Paul always argued that traditional Jewish practices were unnecessary.

    I think Paul’s actions make more sense if we understand them as being motivated by sincere religious belief rather than by a triple bank shot scheme to undermine Rome 非常 慢。

    • 谢谢: Gapeseed, RVBlake
    • 回复: @Seraphim
  403. Arguing the Apostles (including Paul) risked life and limb and often did die horrible deaths based on something they knew was a lie only for some double-secret-reverse-subversion attempt is laughable.

    And the later attempts by anti-Christians to claim that the proofs offered of their belief and suffering were fake is laughable as well.

    Gosh, religious people choosing to suffer and dye trying to convert others. I mean, how stupid, right? Must’ve been an anti-Roman, totally secular plot, eh?

    Anti-Christian retards.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  404. Seraphim 说:
    @gregor

    All discussions about Paul are irrelevant if we don’t know what he was really preaching. Let’s see what he said and done, not what the Skrbinas and Guyenots believe he said and did:

    ”For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God… For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty” (1 Corinthians 1:17-18; 22-27).

    ” Brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15:1-26).

    If Paul was the agent of the Jews to subvert the Roman Empire why did they want to kill him? And if he was the Romans agent to subvert Judaism, why did they kill him?

    • 同意: Gapeseed
  405. Robin Hood 说:
    @RVBlake

    Absence of Historical Witnesses Non-Christian Testimony for Jesus? – From the authentic pen of lying Christian scribes ! Josephus (c37-100 AD)
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#fourth

    Flavius Josephus is a highly respected and much-quoted Romano-Jewish historian. The early Christians were zealous readers of his work.

    A native of Judea, living in the 1st century AD, Josephus was actually governor of Galilee for a time (prior to the war of 70 AD) – the very province in which Jesus allegedly did his wonders. Though not born until 37 AD and therefore not a contemporary witness to any Jesus-character, Josephus at one point even lived in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said to have wrought his first miracle.

    [更多]

    Josephus’s two major tomes are History of The Jewish War and The Antiquities of the Jews. In these complementary works, the former written in the 70s, the latter in the 90s AD, Josephus mentions every noted personage of Palestine and describes every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era.

    At face value, Josephus appears to be the answer to the Christian apologist’s dreams.

    In a single paragraph (the so-called Testimonium Flavianum) Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the Christ-myth:

    1. Jesus’s existence 2. his ‘more than human’ status 3. his miracle working 4. his teaching 5. his ministry among the Jews and the Gentiles 6. his Messiahship 7. his condemnation by the Jewish priests 8. his sentence by Pilate 9. his death on the cross 10. the devotion of his followers 11. his resurrection on the 3rd day 12. his post-death appearance 13. his fulfillment of divine prophecy 14. the successful continuance of the Christians.

    In just 127 words Josephus confirms everything – now that is a miracle!

    BUT WAIT A MINUTE …

    Not a single writer before the 4th century – not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. – in all their defences against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus’ wondrous words.

    The third century Church ‘Father’ Origen, for example, spent half his life and a quarter of a million words contending against the pagan writer Celsus. Origen drew on all sorts of proofs and witnesses to his arguments in his fierce defence of Christianity. He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this ‘golden paragraph’ from Josephus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was “not believing in Jesus as the Christ.”

    Origen did not quote the ‘golden paragraph’ because this paragraph had not yet been written.

    It was absent from early copies of the works of Josephus and did not appear in Origen’s third century version of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum.

    Consider, also, the anomalies:

    1. How could Josephus claim that Jesus had been the answer to his messianic hopes yet remain an orthodox Jew?
    The absurdity forces some apologists to make the ridiculous claim that Josephus was a closet Christian!

    2. If Josephus really thought Jesus had been ‘the Christ’ surely he would have added more about him than one paragraph, a casual aside in someone else’s (Pilate’s) story?

    In fact, Josephus relates much more about John the Baptist than about Jesus! He also reports in great detail the antics of other self-proclaimed messiahs, including Judas of Galilee, Theudas the Magician, and the unnamed ‘Egyptian Jew’ messiah.

    It is striking that though Josephus confirms everything the Christians could wish for, he adds nothing that is not in the gospel narratives, nothing that would have been unknown by Christians already.

    3. The question of context.

    Antiquities 18 is primarily concerned with “all sorts of misfortunes” which befell the Jews during a period of thirty-two years (4-36 AD).

    Josephus begins with the unpopular taxation introduced by the Roman Governor Cyrenius in 6 AD. He presents a synopsis of the three established Jewish parties (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), but his real quarry is the “fourth sect of philosophy … which laid the foundation of our future miseries.” That was the sect of Judas the Galilean, “which before we were unacquainted withal.”

    At the very point we might expect a mention of “Christians” (if any such sect existed) we have instead castigation of tax rebels!

    “It was in Gessius Florus’s time [64-66] that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and made them revolt from the Romans; and these are the sects of Jewish philosophy.”

    “Nor can fear of death make them call any man Lord.” Sound a tad familiar?

    Chapter 2 notes the cities built to honour the Romans; the frequent changes in high priest (up to Caiaphas) and Roman procurators (up to Pontius Pilate); and also the turmoil in Parthia.

    Chapter 3, containing the Testimonium as paragraph three, is essentially about Pilate’s attempts to bring Jerusalem into the Roman system. With his first policy – placing Caesar’s ensigns in Jerusalem – Pilate was forced to back down by unexpected Jewish protests in Caesarea. With his second policy – providing Jerusalem with a new aqueduct built with funds sequestered from the Temple, Pilate made ready for Jewish protests. Concealed weapons on his soldiers caused much bloodshed.

    At this point the paragraph about Jesus is introduced!

    Immediately after, Josephus continues:

    “And about the same time another terrible misfortune confounded the Jews …”

    There is no way that Josephus, who remained an orthodox Jew all his life and defended Judaism vociferously against Greek critics, would have thought that the execution of a messianic claimant was “another terrible misfortune” for the Jews. This is the hand of a Christian writer who himself considered the death of Jesus to be a Jewish tragedy (fitting in with his own notions of a stiff-necked race, rejected by God because they themselves had rejected the Son of God).

    With paragraph 3 removed from the text the chapter, in fact, reads better. The “aqueduct massacre” now justifies “another terrible misfortune.”

    4. The final assertion, that the Christians were “not extinct at this day,” confirms that the so-called Testimonium is a later interpolation. How much later we cannot say but there was no “tribe of Christians” during Josephus’ lifetime. Christianity under that moniker did not establish itself until the 2nd century. Outside of this single bogus paragraph, in all the extensive histories of Josephus there is not a single reference to Christianity anywhere.

    5. The hyperbolic language is uncharacteristic of the historian:

    “… as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.”

    This is the stuff of Christian propaganda.

    6. The Testimonium is a rather short for a genuine digression in the narrative of Josephus (the material surely was deserving of more attention than it gets). But a copyist, working with scrolls of a fixed length, would have had little space to play with.

    现实检查

    In fact, the Josephus paragraph about Jesus does not appear until the beginning of the fourth century, at the time of Constantine.

    Bishop Eusebius, that great Church propagandist and self-confessed liar-for-god, was the first person known to have quoted this paragraph of Josephus, about the year 340 AD. This was after the Christians had become the custodians of religious correctness.

    Whole libraries of antiquity were torched by the Christians. Yet unlike the works of his Jewish contemporaries, the histories of Josephus survived. They survived because the Christian censors had a use for them. They planted evidence on Josephus, turning the leading Jewish historian of his day into a witness for Jesus Christ ! Finding no references to Jesus anywhere in Josephus’s genuine work, they interpolated a brief but all-embracing reference based purely on Christian belief.

    Do we need to look any further to identify Eusebius himself as the forger?

    Sanctioned by the imperial propagandist every Christian commentator for the next thirteen centuries accepted unquestioningly the entire Testimonium Flavianum, along with its declaration that Jesus “was the Messiah.”

    And even in the twenty first century scholars who should know better trot out a truncated version of the ‘golden paragraph’ in a scurrilous attempt to keep Josephus ‘on message.’

    Christian apologists, for their own convenience, blur the distinction between evidence of Jesus and evidence of Christians.

    It is rather as if a child who believed in the Tooth Fairy was to be presented as evidence that the Tooth Fairy really existed.

    普通嫌疑犯

    There is no doubt that Christians existed, from the early years of the second century certainly, and – as heretical Jews and under diverse names – up to a generation earlier. Belief in a Messiah (a ‘Christ’ in Greek) was endemic among the Jews after all.

    But belief in a celestial Christ does not equate to belief in a flesh-and-blood ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ – and when the ‘heretical’ and ‘gnostic’ views of early Christians are examined ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ is noticeably absent. And to press the point, even a belief in a ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ does not make him a reality – it is only the belief that is a reality.

    None abashed, Christian apologists compound their suspect ‘logic’ by recruiting notable pagans as witnesses, writers who were doing their best to faithfully report on a suspect cult. And as ever in the history of Christianity, in the hands of its scribes, forgery augments what the ancient writers actually wrote, the better to bring unbelievers to the One True Faith.

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  406. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    Witness to Jesus? – Seneca and the Stoics

    At the same time Philo was laying the foundations of Christian theology in Alexandria, in Rome, another educated aristocrat, Seneca, was articulating the highly developed morality and ethics of Stoicism. The two philosophers may even have met: Seneca took a long sojourn in Alexandria in 31 AD.

    Lucius Annaeus Seneca (4 BC-65 AD) was a prodigious writer. His legacy includes satires, tragedies, several books on natural phenomena, and at least 124 insightful letters (Epistulae morales). A dozen essays on philosophy include edifying tracts on the brevity of life, human destiny, clemency and virtue. In On Clemency, Seneca describes the prince who safeguards the lives of his subjects as “god like”. In On Tranquility of Mind, he urges a contentment gained from thrift rather than a ceaseless passion for wealth. A lost work De superstitione ridiculed popular conceptions of the gods.

    As it happens, the life of Seneca, like that of Philo, was contemporaneous with the “Jesus” of legend. Yet though Seneca wrote extensively on many subjects and people, nothing relating to “Jesus” ever caught his attention, nor does he show any awareness of a “vast multitude” of Christians, supposedly, punished for the fire that ravaged Rome in 64 AD.

    [更多]

    Seneca had a privileged upbringing. Born in Cordoba, he was the son of a famous father, Marcus Annaeus Seneca (Seneca the Elder, 54 BC-39 AD), himself a prolific writer of legal commentary, history and philosophy. Both father and son were of the Stoic school.

    The younger Seneca was sent to Rome as a youth, where he studied philosophy and law. He became a successful politician, but fell into disfavour when Messalina, wife of Claudius, persuaded the emperor to have him banished to Corsica. The charge was adultery with Julia Livilla, a sister of Caligula, and a rival Messalina wanted out of the way. After eight years in exile, Seneca was recalled by Claudius’s second wife Agrippina and over the next several years he attained great influence as the tutor of the future emperor Nero. ….

    Bringing Seneca on Message

    The lack of any reference to Jesus Christ or Christians by Seneca was an embarrassment rectified during the 4th century by a forger familiar with Seneca’s letters to his life-long friend Lucilius. What emerged was a correspondence purporting to be friendly exchanges between the eminent Roman philosopher – at the height of his fame and political influence – and an unknown itinerant preacher we now call St Paul.

    The catalyst for the fabrications appear to have been remarks by Tertullian, in the early 3rd century. Tertullian, aware that Seneca had articulated sentiments suited to a “great moral teacher” referred to Seneca as “often our own.” By the time of Constantius II (337-361), Seneca had been taken captive by the Christians, his fidelity to the cause vouched for by a lively exchange of letters (in Latin!) with the Jewish Christian apostle. We are asked to believe that Seneca wrote eight letters to Paul and received six replies. As if.

    A forger’s sycophantic drivel

    “The tradition that Gallio sent some of St. Paul’s writings to his brother Seneca is utterly absurd; and indeed at this time (A.D. 54), St. Paul had written nothing except the two Epistles to the Thessalonians.”

    – Rev. F. W. Farrar.

    The pen of a 4th century fraudster has one of the richest, most powerful men in Rome wishing he could swap places with the unknown Jewish apostle from Tarsus! …

    Last Days of Stoicism

    Over the course of centuries, as Stoicism developed, it became less elitist and less “indifferent” to the caprice of fate. Its concern with human issues and morality gave it new life as a popular “religion”.

    The Stoics often found themselves at odds with imperial despots. Stoics of republican persuasion, notably Helvidius Priscus, were banished from Rome in 73 by Vespasian; and Domitian ejected all the philosophers from Italy in 89 (a “persecution” the Christian’s would claim as their own).

    In contrast, the enlightened monarchs of the 2nd century – Hadrian, Antoninus, and Marcus Aurelius – counted themselves among the philosophers and by the time of Aurelius, the gods had assumed a more positive role as helpers and assistants. Antinous, Isis, Serapis, Jupiter and Asclepius, would all habitually appear to devotees in dreams. St Paul’s apparition on the road to Damascus was nothing out of the ordinary.

    Yet Stoicism remained too fatalistic and too reliant upon self-discipline for a mass audience. Its ethical system was to be vulgarised by the Christians, who developed the mystical element of unseen spirits, “the Word” attendant on believers, assisting and guiding. The distinction between truth and falsehood – so vital to the Stoics – was dispensed with in order to focus more on what was perceived as “good” and “evil.”

    Stoicism began to lose its hold on the intelligentsia with the rise of neo-Platonism and Plotinus, yet within a century neo-Platonism itself succumbed to Christian totalitarianism. The Stoic “ideal man” now became a vision ascribed to Jewish prophecy and frozen into a bogus historicism: Jesus of Nazareth, the Stoic who never lived.

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  407. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    There is no way that Josephus, who remained an orthodox Jew all his life and defended Judaism vociferously against Greek critics, would have thought that the execution of a messianic claimant was “another terrible misfortune” for the Jews. This is the hand of a Christian writer who himself considered the death of Jesus to be a Jewish tragedy (fitting in with his own notions of a stiff-necked race, rejected by God because they themselves had rejected the Son of God).

    So you spent all this time arguing lack of historical records, and only now grudgingly admit that there are historical records of Jesus, only to fall back on the claim – offered on supposition and without proof – that these records were forgeries? Because Christians ruled the world in the time of Josephus and controlled all of his surviving manuscripts? Huh.

    I think you’re running out of fallback positions, Mr. Hood.

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  408. Robin Hood 说:
    @R.G. Camara

    The Jesus Parade is Always in Town – Christian ‘Apologetics’ – Fundamentally Flawed
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/circus.html

    Logical fallacies and semantic trickery are the very essence of Christian apologetics, exploiting a general ignorance of science and responding to the desire for quick-fix salvation and something easy on the brain cells. …

    3. The “Suffering Disciples” Argument

    This one really takes the biscuit. Our Apologist, aware that non-Christians also have beliefs, now inflates a fallacy, invented by a triumphant Church and perpetuated by Hollywood. “Would the disciples have suffered and died for a fabricated saviour?” (Lurid pictures of stoning, beheading, savage beasts).

    This audacious nonsense is destroyed utterly by two separate realities:

    1. People suffer and die all the time for erroneous causes.

    Did the 9/11 terrorists go straight to the Islamic paradise?

    Pagans died at the hands of Christians. Did this prove the existence of Isis and Dionysus?

    2. There is NO evidence at all for the existence of the Apostles and NO evidence for widespread suffering by Christians either – until, that is, the Christian Empire turned its ferocity upon the heretics.

    Paul, for example, nowhere refers to the execution of a single apostle, though that does nothing to diminish the often reiterated tall tale of Nero’s “torching” of Christians.

    Let’s not forget, in a single day in 1209 at Beziers in the Languedoc region of southern France, more Christians died at the hands of fellow Christians than in the entire twenty year reign of the ‘great persecutor’ Emperor Diocletian – graphic evidence of Christian rather than pagan savagery. One can kill for, and die for, religion with equanimity and people usually do.

    Religion-inspired death and murder proves nothing.

    Persecution – Holy Mother Church Invents Heroic Origins
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html

    • 巨魔: R.G. Camara
  409. @Robin Hood

    . There is NO evidence at all for the existence of the Apostles and NO evidence for widespread suffering by Christians either – until, that is, the Christian Empire turned its ferocity upon the heretics.

    lmao. Man, you anti-Christian, anti-Truth bigots really will lie bald-facedly to try to fool others—especially yourselves.

    Poor little low-IQ atheists—so angry that no one takes their wittle illogical debunked nonsense seriously.

  410. @Seraphim

    哇。
    Nice ad hominem.
    Such a ‘good christian’. I doubt I am the only now inspired to seek baptism into brain-dead compliance and mindlessness!! Lol

    • 回复: @Seraphim
  411. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    There are those who claim that people who debunk Christianity are “atheists” at the worst or “persons who miss the bigger picture” at best. Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Native American Spirituality
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Spirit

    “The Great Spirit is the concept of a life force, a Supreme Being or god known more specifically as Wakan Tanka in Lakota, Gitche Manitou in Algonquian, and by other, specific names in a number Native American and First Nations cultures. While the concept is common to a number of indigenous cultures in the United States and Canada, it is not shared by all cultures, or necessarily interpreted in the same way. According to Lakota activist Russell Means, a more semantically accurate translation of Wakan Tanka is the Great Mystery.” (Footnotes omitted.)”

    And let’s not overlook the gnostic version of Christianity which preceded the proto-orthodox and Catholic versions. Also remember that many of America’s Founding Fathers who were Deists. They were not atheists or persons who miss the bigger picture either.

    Yahweh – Jehovah – Brutal Jewish God of War
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/brutal.htm#killers

    All cultures have anthropomorphized their gods into humanoid (if sometimes grotesque) form. Were the Jews the exception? Hardly. We know precisely what the Hebrew god looked like. We are, after all, fashioned in his own likeness! “Yahweh”, in fact, is an abbreviation of the longer name, “Yahweh Sabaoth.” It means, “He who musters armies.” Thus Yahweh’s name identifies the god primarily as the military leader of the tribe. No wonder the God bequeathed to the world by the Jews turned out to be a monster.

    The Holy Bible: A Good Book? Savage Biblical Injustice
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/execution-1.html

    Biblical morality is archaic and savage. It reflects a barbarous, pitiless age and a tribal, slave-based society, a time when “elders” and priests ruled desperately primitive villages and nomadic or semi-nomadic clans. The Romans regarded Judaism as a primitive religion – and it was.

    The legacy scarcely improved when repackaged as Christianity, for all the nonsense talked about “love” and heroic self-sacrifice. Indeed, as political need presented itself, the Christians turned increasingly to the corpus of Judaism to justify every vicious act.

    The New Testament, with its skimpy biography of a humanoid god and eclectic collection of letters, meant the practitioners of Christ, raised up as “elders” and priests of a decaying world, drew heavily upon the Old Testament and its rich compendium of inhumanity and intolerance.

    Jesus Christ – The Neighbour from Hell
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/neighbour.html

    JC’s presence next door could prove useful at the barbeque (a few sardines and a couple of bagels will feed everyone). But be wary if you get ill – this guy thinks sickness is caused by demonic possession and we all know what happened in The Exorcist. JC-the-role-model does humanity no favours by discouraging critical thinking and promoting popular credulity. By encouraging belief in the irrational and the fantastic it leaves people – particularly the simple, the uneducated and the young – open to charlatans and con artists, as two thousand years of Christian history tragically illustrates.

    There are those who are reasonably intelligent and not totally or partially brainwashed or mind controlled that believe in God, a Great Spirit, a higher power, Divine Providence, or some bigger picture of the meaning of the universe who are speaking up to encourage others to reject the OT and NT Biblegod War Criminal. Having viewed a number of ad hominem attacks in this discussion stream over the last couple of weeks, the following quote comes to mind:

    “The number one cause of atheism is Christians. Those who proclaim Him with their mouths and deny Him with their actions is what an unbelieving world finds unbelievable.”― Karl Rahner

  412. @Robin Hood

    This is a widely reported and documented act of immense cruelty. As I understand it, over 200,000 were killed off in this Albigensian Persecution.

    I don’t know much about this period though, really only the basic geography and none of the theology.
    想要启发我们吗?

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
  413. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    Fallback positions? Nonsense. Looks like to me that you either did not read the articles, or if you did you didn’t understand the assertions therein contained, or that you are purposely mischaracterizing what’s been said. No problem. Many of us understand where you are coming from.

    A Catalogue of Church mendacity – Lying for God – Copy and Glorify!
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm#florida

    ‘Clearly the Christians have used … myths … in fabricating the story of Jesus’ birth … It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction.’

    – Celsus (On The True Doctrine, c178 AD)

    Celsus was one of the foremost thinkers of his age. His critique of the Christians was so damaging that Christians destroyed every copy of his work they could find.

    ‘The forgery of pious documents of every imaginable character was among the most constant and zealous activities of the holy propagandists of the Christian Faith, from the beginning to the critical era when forgeries were no longer possible or profitable.’

    – Joseph Wheless (1930)

    Whether we look at the Middle Ages and the Reformation, the first centuries of the Christian era or even today, Christianity has always been a fabrication, layer set upon layer of lies and nonsense, a fraud from its very inception.

    • 谢谢: steinbergfeldwitzcohen
    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  414. Seraphim 说:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    One cannot but wonder that one who tries to project the image of a ‘scientist’ can dismiss the research done by STURP and of its conclusions and instead endorse the laughable ‘science’ of a lapsed Christians who bases his theories on apocryphal writings, misreadings and downright inventions of his own (like the physical description of Jesus by Josephus – but why to invoke it at all once you deny that Josephus ever talked about Jesus?). Anyhow Eisler admits that Josephus did talk about Jesus.

  415. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Really, to get back to the original point, just read St. Paul. You don’t have to believe his writings, but at the very least, you’ll see he was sincere, and you’ll save yourself a lot of time otherwise spent tilting at windmills and straining at gnats.

    Good luck and God bless.

  416. @anon

    So, what is your belief (system)?

    No belief, no system, just plain common sense (natural religion, if you will): Mind exists, precedes matter, and survives death.

  417. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    > “But then, as Dawkins says, “The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.” Making faith instead of reason the underpinning of Christianity was a stroke of genius…”

    Your latest comments here have been illuminating. I heard this argument voiced by Richard Carrier – the evangelists make the women testify to the resurrection precisely because they are women, and thus unbelievable! Viewing it as “too shameful to be a lie” misses the point of Christianity in its veneration of the opposite, of evil.

    For an idea to triumph, it must not necessarily be true. The same way a knife will end life without a knowledge of anatomy. Or at least, a maim is not an immediate kill, the animal can still go on for some time impaired and technically alive.

  418. @Thomasina

    > “By refusing to consider the learned opinions of scores of frontline doctors and experts in order to reach a consensus…”

    What amazes me about America is your total lack of a desire to please your Führer (whom you don’t have either, incidentally). My question is – how hard is it to wear a mask? And why would you oppose it at all? Why not turn it into a sacrifice that you make for the good of the race, the smallest of concessions? To make their Führer happy, naked Stalinists used to sweat in the hellish caves of Donbass once. What a degenerate individualist place Christian America is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement

    These workers took pride in their ability to produce more than was required, by working harder and more efficiently, thus strengthening the socialist state.

    • 回复: @Mark Weatherly
    , @Thomasina
  419. Seraphim 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    What was your trauma, I wonder? Same?

    • 回复: @steinbergfeldwitzcohen
  420. kapoore 说:

    犹太教与基督教之间的冲突在某种程度上很直观,但讨论不多。 这是玛格丽特·巴克(Margaret Barker)的理论,即基督教来自第一圣殿的犹太教,而犹太教来自第二圣殿。 约西亚王公元前633年左右提出了对第一圣殿习俗的彻底改革,在建设项目中发现了申命记的经文-可能是种植的经文。 “改革者”在农村横冲直撞,摧毁了高高的庙宇(圣经中报道)。 这项“改革”运动在埃及和阿拉伯创造了一批第一圣殿信徒。 在巴比伦被囚禁之后,农村地区的大多数人都没有参与,少数精英团体接管了耶路撒冷圣殿,并继续重写文字。 所以…。 巴勒斯坦有一大批第一圣殿人民,而耶路撒冷有一个精英统治团体。 耶稣运动起源于南部,在那里仍然崇拜“天堂女王”。 本质上,第一圣殿和第二圣殿具有组成部分和相似的传统。 希伯来圣经不包含散居海外的信徒在埃及写的智慧经文。 新教徒跟随第二圣殿的宗教,东正教和天主教仍然包含第一圣殿。 文本和考古学中有大量证据表明存在这种分歧。

  421. Robin Hood 说:

    The “12 Apostles” – Fabricated followers of a fabricated Saviour
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/apostles.html

    Where DID they get their ideas from?

    Joshua also chose Twelve

    [更多]

    “The LORD spoke to Joshua, saying: ‘Take for yourselves twelve men from the people, one man from every tribe’ … Then Joshua called the twelve men whom he had appointed from the children of Israel, one man from every tribe.” – Joshua 4.1-4.

    The names ‘Jesus’ and ‘Joshua’ both derive from the Hebrew Yehoshua – an heroic name (‘Yahweh saves’) given to the supposed leader of the Israelites in their conquest of Canaan.

    The parallels don’t end there. Matthew’s Jesus promises his groupies that they will “sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” – Matthew 19.28. …

    The apostles should be twelve of the most famous people in history. We’re told they were hand picked by Jesus to witness his wondrous deeds, learn his sublime teachings, and take the good news of his kingdom to the ends of the earth.

    Which makes it all the more surprising that we know next to nothing about them. We can’t even be sure of their names: the gospels list a collection of more than twenty names for the so-called twelve disciples – with Bartholomew sometimes showing up as Nathanael, Matthew as Levi and Jude as Thaddeus, Lebbaeus, or Daddaeus!

    It should be apparent that if the twelve were actual historical figures, with such an important role in the foundation and growth of the Church, it would be impossible to have such wild confusion over the basic question of who they really were.

    But what do we know about any of them?

    “Twelve Good Men and True”?

    The fact is that for seven of the twelve, our only early source, the Gospels, say nothing about them at all. They are just names on a list.

    Isn’t it a tad odd that such worthies, infused with the Holy Spirit and given powers to heal the sick and cast out demons, wrote nothing, or had nothing written for them or about them? Isn’t it odd that men chosen to be eye-witnesses to the mighty deeds of Jesus, wrote no eye-witness statements, left no sermons, no memoirs, no letters, no teachings, no pithy words of encouragement?

    All that we have about “the twelve” are conflicting legends and fantastic stories from a much later date, tall stories about where they went, what they did and most especially how they died. Their deaths, it seems, have been recorded in loving and lurid detail. And it is the graphic deaths of the disciples that solves the riddle. We’ve all heard the apologetic claim: “Would they have died for a lie? Therefore the story of Jesus must be true.”

    But we all know how useful to a cause is a dead martyr, even if he’s a fiction. In the case of Jesus, the twelve are a fiction, a necessary entourage for a sun god, passing through the twelve constellations of the zodiac. Just like other saviour gods, Jesus had to have his retinue.

    The truth is, the twelve disciples are a grubby and sordid invention. …

    The 12 become the 7 – sort of

    In Acts of the Apostles the eleven disciples, ordered by the risen Jesus to wait in Jerusalem for power from the Holy Spirit, drew lots to replace the hapless Judas Iscariot. They chose Matthias over Barsabas Justus and thus restored the magic circle. The wording used by Acts is curious: ” one must be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.” At this stage “twelve” still has a divine or mystical importance.

    But after a Peter-led interlude (sermonizing at Pentecost, first miracles, arrest and re-arrest, etc.) “the Twelve” have outlived their usefulness. The cover story is that the apostles do not wish to “serve tables” (no kidding, Acts 6.2) or minister to “Grecian widows” – they want to get on with prayer and ministry. They direct that seven men, full of the Holy Ghost, be appointed to the more mundane business of welfare.

    What undermines the “authenticity” of this story is that from this point on the original (Jewish) disciples, now free to minister, almost disappear from the story. Instead, it is the “Hellenist” new guys, supposedly appointed for welfare work, who steal the limelight.

    Primacy goes to Stephen, who gives one big speech and becomes the first martyr, followed by Philip (not to be confused with the disciple of the same name) who works wonders in Samaria in competition with Simon Magus. Philip also converts the treasurer of Ethiopia and even “vanishes” from Gaza to reappear twenty five miles away in Azotus (Ashdod), courtesy of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8.39)! He obviously did not spend much time waiting on tables. Twenty-odd years later Philip is in Caesarea, where, as the father of four virgin soothsayers, he hosts the apostle Paul.

    The other Hellenists – Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas – are never mentioned again. Like most of the named apostles, they merely make up the number. By this stage Acts has become wholly preoccupied with a yarn about the adventures of Paul. As for the original witnesses chosen by Jesus – “fishers of men” divinely ordained to take the good news “to the uttermost ends of the earth” – they have faded into oblivion.

    Church of the Shadows

    After the “deaths” of the Apostles, even Church historians offer no great missionary figures (they make a weak attempt with Ignatius). The gap of more than two centuries is filled with an anonymous church of the shadows.

    Retrospectively, the void was filled with “suffering Christians” – a fallacy, invented by a triumphant Church for its own greater glory, elaborated at length by the feverish minds of medieval churchmen and perpetuated in our own time by the studios of Hollywood.

    Propagandists would concoct a fanciful story in which the ‘blood of the martyrs became the seed of the church’; they would tell of a continuous progress, first in secret then openly, by which brave, pious, humble, and noble followers of Christ, faced up both raging lions and sadistic emperors. By their submission to suffering with a divinely inspired countenance, these pioneers of Christianity – apparently – won first the respect and then the heart of a dark and cruel pagan world.

    Who Persecuted Whom?

    Across three centuries, a handful of Christian “martyrs” can be cited from a few locations. Their number, far from substantiating any general or sustained persecution of the early Christians, is no more than we would expect of a fraternity that, by the time of Constantine’s coup, amounted to some tens of thousands and was drawn disproportionately from criminal and marginal classes. The general persecution of Christians occurred only when the Christian Empire turned its ferocity upon the heretics.

    The Roman Empire had lasted more than a thousand years and persecuted Christians for fewer than twelve of them. The ‘Christian Empire’ also lasted more than a thousand years and persecuted non-Christians through all of them.

    Persecution – Holy Mother Church Invents Heroic Origins
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html

  422. Robin Hood 说:

    They Should Have Known
    https://www.frank-zindler.com/religions-essays.html

    John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence (The Truth Seeker Company, NY, no date, pp. 24-25), lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived:

    [更多]

    约瑟夫
    阿里安
    苏埃托尼乌斯
    普鲁塔克
    阿波罗尼奥斯
    Hermogones
    阿皮安
    卢西恩
    Aulus Gellius
    达米斯
    Appion of Alexandria
    Philo-Judaeus
    彼得罗尼厄斯
    朱韦纳尔
    Pliny the Younger
    昆体良
    意大利人西里乌斯(Silius Italicus)
    Phlegon
    鲍桑尼亚
    迪奥金口
    Favorinus
    塞内卡
    Dion Pruseus

    塔西佗
    卢卡努斯
    斯塔提乌斯
    费德鲁斯
    Florus Lucius
    鼻小柱
    莉西亚斯
    Theon of Smyrna
    老普林尼
    Paterculus
    珀修斯
    Justus of Tiberius
    爱比克泰德
    托勒密
    瓦莱里乌斯·马克西姆斯
    Quintius Curtius
    Valerius Flaccus
    Pomponius Mela

    Accordingto Remsburg, “Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.” Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles—increas­ing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the founda­tion of Christianity.

    Absence of Historical Witnesses – Non-Christian Testimony for Jesus? – From the authentic pen of lying Christian scribes ! https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html

  423. @Laurent Guyénot

    Thanks again, Laurent, excellent discussion. I’m happy that you find my thesis plausible/obvious. In quick reply to some of your questions:

    * If both Matthew and Luke used a prior “Q” source, that does not materially change my thesis. If Q was roughly contemporaneous with Mark, then we have those two documents as the supplements to Paul (who was evidently unaware of Mark, Q, or any canonical Gospel). Q would have been as fraudulent as Mark.

    * Yes, I speak of “Mark”, “Luke” etc as single individuals, but this is for simplification purposes only. Again, it does not significantly alter the hoax thesis if they were two or more Jewish individuals.

    * Paul’s quarrels with the Pharisees was likely over strategy: they could not countenance a flesh-and-blood Jewish Messiah, or even a lie about one. But Paul could, if he thought it would bring greater gains to “Israel.”

    * Yes, it doesn’t matter if Paul’s Jesus was real or mythic; he was still trying to convert Gentiles to the Jewish, anti-Roman God. And that’s the essential point.

    * Regarding the afterlife: Yes, Romans, pagans and others already had ideas of an afterlife. (Jews did not, however). But Paul’s innovation — to the best of my knowledge — was to conceive of a “good” and eternal afterlife (heaven) for the believers, and a “bad” and eternal afterlife (hell) for the skeptics. This was a true Pauline invention, I believe, intended to maximize the “carrot and stick” approach that he used on the masses. Or do you know otherwise?

    And I couldn’t agree more on the need to “start to consider this [thesis] seriously”. Feel free to contact me if you have any ideas for collaboration.

  424. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    The advent and flourishing of science and technology was largely, though not entirely, unrelated to Christianity. It is truer to say that they flourished in spite of, rather than due to, Christianity. I don’t know what TK would think of this.

  425. Robin Hood 说:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Good morning ! I have no particular expertise concerning this particular persecution. But I was able to find the following items which appear to be good starting places for further research:

    阿尔比冈十字军东征
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

    I have reservations about Wikipedia. Some of their articles are propaganda pieces. Others are good. Based only on what little I do know, this particular article looks O.K. as a starting place.

    法国南部贵族与阿尔比冈十字军东征
    By Elaine Graham-Leigh
    https://gnosis.study/library/%D0%94%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8B/%D0%9A%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8/ENG/Graham-Leigh%20E.%20-%20The%20Southern%20French%20Nobility%20and%20the%20Albigensian%20Crusade.pdf

  426. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    Ah, progress! You are referencing an early writer in Celsus who, while anti-Christian, seems to at least acknowledge Christ existed by trafficking in ridicule of Him and His followers. Another fallback position.

    You ought to at least acknowledge that Celsus was a part of an early debate and jostling between pagans, Jews, and Christians, and his position in elite pagan culture made his critiques convenient for his place in this circle, one which looked down upon this despised minority of early Christians. Contrast that with Christian martyrs, who believed at great peril and paid for their beliefs in blood.

    But again, do yourself a favor and read St. Paul, another martyr. All these Christians had literal skin in the game and put themselves at great risk. What, exactly, did your Pagan champions risk?

    • 同意: SeekerofthePresence
  427. @C.T.

    考虑到裹尸布的一些 13 世纪年代,也许裹尸布是拜占庭皇帝安德罗尼库斯·科梅努斯的人造图像,他在公元 1185 年被酷刑谋杀,可以说被倒钉在十字架上。 他的传记作者写道,在他死后的几年里,尸体仍然可以被视为相当不错的状态。 安德洛尼克斯身材高大,左眼和右手腕受伤,留着一分为二的胡须,就像基督的一些形象一样。

    Nothing in the encyclopedia articles on Andronicus suggest that Andronicus was a late-date source of the gospel stories (which, rightly or wrongly, most people believe are much older) – he is portrayed as a rather dark individual capable of great cruelty and also attraction to many women – but the encyclopedia articles leave a lot out.

    百科全书确实描述了安德罗尼克斯和他的军队是如何在公元 1182 年被欢迎进入拜占庭首都的,当时金融腐败几乎导致了饥荒。 他得到了与他有关系的安吉洛家族的合作,甚至被他的敌人称赞为清理了大量的腐败,至少暂时恢复了繁荣,尽管这对富有的精英来说是巨大的代价。 3年后,由安杰洛斯自己领导的精英们反抗他的热心起诉并谋杀了他。

    然而,百科全书的文章并没有告诉我们,在他受刑的日子里,据说安德罗尼克斯从未诅咒过折磨他的人,而是问:“如果芦苇已经弯曲,你为什么要打它?”。 据他的敌人说,当他骑着骆驼后退并在街上游行时,人们用浸过醋的破布在棍子上戳他的伤口,安德罗尼克斯的回应是“愿你平安”。 这种非同寻常的行为,尤其是在与当时的金融精英作斗争的人身上,会被一些人认为是基督般的,但我们不会在历史课上了解到它。 为什么是这样?

    然后,还有传记作者与 Andronicus 相关的明星问题。 他出生时天空中是否出现了一颗新星? 尽管大多数天文学家认为螃蟹超新星在 11 世纪中叶首次出现在天空中,但根据耶稣会汇编的记录,其他天文学家已经从过去一百年拍摄的照片中推算出爆炸的日期,并提出星在 12 世纪中叶变得可见。

  428. Robin Hood 说:

    Journeys with an Apostle – First Mission. Paul in Cyprus and Galatia – Real or Imagined?
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/apostle.htm

    Did Saint Paul, native of Tarsus and Roman citizen as he claimed, really make the journeys ascribed to him – or are they just a frame upon which to hang his seminal epistles? Did this erstwhile Rabbi Saul, student of Gamaliel and Pharisaic Jew, really sally forth over sea and mountain – or could the story of his travels have been concocted precisely to framework missives of orthodoxy aimed at recalcitrant synagogues of the Jewish diaspora? A century of archaeology appears to confirm a few circumstantial details mentioned in his letters and yet the biblical account gives one cause to wonder.

    现实检查

    [更多]

    “Paul’s first missionary journey under the auspices of Antioch is narrated only by Luke … A close analysis of this account brings to light so many improbabilities that it becomes impossible to accord it any real confidence.”

    – Murphy O’Connor, Paul, His Story, p44.

    In reality, the Cyprian story falls apart for a number of reasons, not least because the Governor’s palace, even today, is a visible celebration of a vibrant paganism, spanning centuries of Roman occupation. The huge palace complex, measuring 120 x 90 metres, includes the normal panoply of public and state rooms, gardens and bath houses. Exquisite mosaic floors feature the major Roman-Hellenic gods – and all without a Christian icon in sight! Ancient Paphos had its theatre, agora and even Asklepion, the shrine-cum-hospital of the ever-popular healing god Asclepius, until his overthrow by Jesus. We might also reasonably suspect a fraudster’s work because of a curious similarity (yet again) between the work of “Luke” (the purported author of Acts) and the history of Josephus written in the 90s. …

    Postscript: Fraudulent in tooth and claw

    Later accretions to the story of the apostolic mission allow us to better appreciate just how the Christian fabrication factory works. In the real world, fierce rivalry between ambitious clerics was the surest spur to the miraculous.

    In the 4th century, Salamis, on the eastern end of the island of Cyprus, gained a new sycophantic name, Constantia, in honour of the pious if stupid emperor Constantius II (337-361). The renamed city was the stomping ground of the patriarch Epiphanius, who spearheaded the destruction of pagan shrines which had existed for a thousand years.

    For nearly forty years (until 403) Epiphanius exerted his authoritarian influence across the eastern Mediterranean, seeking to control the affairs of Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. Strictly speaking his own see was actually subordinate to that of Antioch but Epiphanius’s answer was to promote the local hero St Barnabas (Agios Varnavas) as “founder of the Church” (his church) in Cyprus, often pushing Barnabas ahead of Paul in the apostolic pecking order. Naturally, Barnabas, the Cypriot Jew, was accorded a suitable “martyr’s death”. The 5th century “Acts of Barnabas” records that it was Jews led by Bar-Jesus of Paphos – enraged by the saint’s condemnation of “naked racing”, idol festivals in the theatre, and libations in the temples (boy are we talking sin) – who seized, throttled and “burned to dust” poor old Barnabas.

    Antioch lost control of Cyprus at the Council of Ephesus in 431 but in 488 Peter the Fuller, the ruthlessly ambitious Patriarch of Antioch, revived the claim. The then Archbishop of Constantia, Anthemios, met the challenge with a dream, which it seems led him to an hitherto unknown tomb of Barnabas where he found nothing less than the original edition of Matthew’s Gospel! Presented to the credulous Emperor Zeno (474-491), the Cypriot Patriarchy gained in return imperial privileges, that is, total authority over its own bailiwick. Theocracy now reigned in the island of love. Ever after, the boss of bosses, His Beatitude the Archbishop, has flaunted the sceptre rather than a pastoral staff, worn a pretty purple mantle and used red ink in official decrees. ….

    来源:

    Hermann Detering, The Falsified Paul, Early Christianity in the Twilight (Journal of Higher Criticism, 2003)
    A. N. Wilson, Paul, The Mind of the Apostle (Sinclair-Stevenson, 1997)
    John Ziesler, Pauline Christianity (Oxford, 1990)
    Edward Stourton, In the Footsteps of Saint Paul (Hodder & Stoughton, 2004)
    John Drane, Introducing the New Testament (Lion, 1999)
    J. Murphy-O’Connor, Paul, A Critical Life (Clarendon, 1996)
    J. Murphy-O’Connor, Paul, His Story (Oxford, 2005)

  429. Robin Hood 说:

    “An orderly account … of things fulfilled” – “Luke” – A Gospel for Credulous Pagans
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/luke.htm

    “Paul’s first missionary journey under the auspices of Antioch is narrated only by Luke … A close analysis of this account brings to light so many improbabilities that it becomes impossible to accord it any real confidence.” – – Murphy O’Connor, Paul, His Story, p44.

    In the seminal works ascribed to Luke – the longest of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles – the author makes no claim to have been a witness to Jesus or to have known Paul personally. All that he writes is hearsay, and, certainly in respect to Act’s “biography” of Paul, scarcely agrees with a word from the apostle himself. It is questionable whether the author of the “genuine” Pauline letters knew of any “historian” named Luke, still less, travelled with him for any extensive period of time. Yet an “orderly account … of things fulfilled” was certainly prepared during the course of the 2nd century and in the wrangle for “orthodoxy” the partisans of Christ needed to give this pious fantasy the seal of an author befitting its great purpose. But who could that be?

    Who on earth was Luke?

    The earliest evidence of the name “Luke” associated with any gospel is the so-called Muratorian fragment, dated to around 170 AD. But who on earth was Luke? Certainly not one of “the twelve” or even a minor player with a walk-on part in the Jesus melodrama. In the entire New Testament there are only three passing mentions to a character called Luke – and all appear in Pauline epistles deemed “inauthentic” by many scholars.

    “Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.” – Colossians 4:14.

    “Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with you: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.” – 2 Timothy 4:11. “Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, greets you, as do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, Luke, my fellow labourers. ” – Philemon 23-24.

    Whatever trivial or partial reasons guided their choice of name, “Luke” was adopted by Antioch as one of their own (rather as the Theophilus, to whom Luke addresses his accounts) and “Luke” was intruded into the saga of Paul by use of the “we passages” in Acts, passages that preface the journeys by sea. The same device was used in the “Old Latin” western text, Codex Bezae (which itself probably originated in Antioch). Thus here, Acts 11.28 gains the words “and as WE were gathered”, making Luke present at the meeting in Antioch when the prophet Agabus foretells there would be a great famine. In a trice, Luke is made an Antiochene, a “disciple of the apostles”, and a faithful companion of Paul. With neither wife nor children to complicate matters, all that remained to fabricate was a suitable death for the literary inclined evangelist. For the author of a gospel “for the Gentiles”, where better than in the heart of the Greek world?

    The saint is said to have died a natural death at Thebes in Greece, at the age of 84 (no glorious martyrdom for this guy!) Then again, a 14th century Byzantine history reports he was hanged from an olive tree (a glorious martyrdom after all!) Apparently, emperor Constantius, one of the sons of Constantine, had Luke’s miracle-working bones transported to Constantinople, only to be stolen by Crusaders of the 4th Crusade. Skeletal remains landed up at Padova in Italy and (sans skull and a rib) are still there, in the church of Santa Justina – though claimed by the Metropolitan of Thebes. In Thebes an impressive Roman tomb from the 2nd century BC has been sequestered for the (missing) apostle – but even the empty tomb works miracles. Bless! …

    来源:
    Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (Phoenix Grant, 1987)
    Dan Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew (Harper Collins,1992)
    Henry Hart Milman, The History of the Jews (Everyman, 1939)
    Josephus, The Jewish War (Penguin, 1959)
    Leslie Houlden (Ed.), Judaism & Christianity (Routledge, 1988)
    Karen Armstrong, A History of Jerusalem (Harper Collins. 1999)
    Jonathan N. Tubb, Canaanites (British Museum Press, 1998)
    Norman Cantor, The Sacred Chain – A History of the Jews (Harper Collins, 1994)

  430. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    It’s my view that Celsus was part right and part wrong. He bought into hearsay Second Century accounts of the existence of an earthly Jesus just like a number of others who published their views during that time period. The literary work for which Celsus is known, The True Word, was probably written between 175 and 177, shortly after the death of Justin Martyr (who was possibly the first Christian apologist), and was probably a response to his work.

    What some Second Century writers were saying about the alleged God Man, who allegedly walked the earth amongst us in the First Century, over a hundred years after his alleged execution is not substantial evidence that any of the hearsay accounts set forth in the Four Gospel were historically accurate. The same mixed bag situation also appears to be the case with regard to the Third Century writings of Porphyry (234 – c. 305 AD).

    The bogus “Suffering Disciples” argument has already been refuted in articles I have posted previously:

    The Jesus Parade is Always in Town – Christian ‘Apologetics’ – Fundamentally Flawed
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/circus.html

    Persecution – Holy Mother Church Invents Heroic Origins
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/persecutions.html

    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  431. I agree with the author’s opinion that Christianity was a man-made construct, but there was never a man named Jesus, who may have been born in Bethlehem or Nazareth. Jesus is not a Hebraic name or an Aramaic one as in Yeshua. The name Jesus was probably a “nickname” at best. The closest spelling of his name was uttered by a real-life prophet named Isaiah 7:14, “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” However close this spelling is, it is not accurate. His real name was spelled Jmmanuel and simply pronounced like Immanuel with a capital “J,” instead of a capital “I.” This is one of several fabrications in the bible (Old and New Testament) for over 2,000 years. The reason for this particular fabrication was that the scribes who wrote the bible (Old and New Testament) didn’t want to reveal Jmmanuel’s father, who was one of the celestial sons, an Extraterrestrial (ET) named Gabriel, a distant son from the lineage of Rasiel, also an (ET). The aforementioned is the truth, which has been lied about for over 2,000 years. Jmmanuel was the man that was similar to Jesus and was written about, who performed feats such as facilitating the lame to walk, the blind to see and the bewitched regain rationality.

    I wish to leave you with this thought. Remember the three wise men who were summoned by Herod, a king who ruled the city of Jerusalem and its surrounding area. These three merchants, who were also competent astrologers, knew about Jmannuel’s birth before Herod and his advisors did. They were commanded by him to find this child and report back to reveal where he was. The bible says they followed a star, perhaps the Northern Star, which lead them to the child’s birthplace. How did they follow that star, when is an astronomical fact that stars don’t move as they remain stationary. People move, the earth rotates on it axis, and revolves around the sun. So how did the three wise men find the child, as they couldn’t use the light from the star because it didn’t move? They followed the beam from a spaceship, which moved and visible.

    Christianity is a man-made construct and not a God-made one. Besides god doesn’t exist nor do devils and angels. Religion was created to simply control human beings behavior and turn human beings into servants to their fabulated gods, tin-gods, and support the clerical hierarchy with money and service.

  432. HBM 说:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    The pro-Roman sentiment and pericopes are propaganda fictions. Jewish Messianism was violently anti-Roman and anti-Gentile. But Hellenic Jews spun it as “Greek” — just like they had spun their phony history as similar and equal to the Greeks for hundreds of years before that; just like they spin what the Jews are up to in Palestine today. Over time it snowballed, and was taken-up by non-Jews (just like Christian Zionists today), and it snowballed more, eventually transmogrifying a goy-hating Jewish deliverer into his virtual opposite: a pro-Roman anti-Semitic Gentle Jesus, a thing which facilitated its spread among Romans.

    The driving force behind Christianity’s development was a desire to obscure the reality of its origins in a bloodthirsty and seditious Jewish Messianic movement. It all flows from that, and “it” is virtually all lies.

    • 同意: Robin Hood
  433. Gapeseed 说:
    @Robin Hood

    It’s my view that Celsus was part right and part wrong. He bought into hearsay Second Century accounts of the existence of an earthly Jesus just like a number of others who published their views during that time period.

    You are shamelessly cherry picking.

    • 回复: @Robin Hood
    , @Seraphim
  434. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    No shame. I call it as I see it. It is what it is.

    • 哈哈: Gapeseed
    • 回复: @Gapeseed
  435. Robin Hood 说:

    Journeys with an Apostle – First Mission. Galatians – Barbarians, Settlers or Jews? – further adventures of the improbable Paul
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/galatians.html

    Galatians, the “most authentic” of the Pauline epistles, raises more questions than it answers. If its pugnacious author was, in reality, an early Christian missionary, then the letter is perhaps the first record of his clash with competitors over a territory he had claimed for himself. But what territory?

    Paul’s letter was ostensibly addressed to “the churches of Galatia” but gives no clue as to precisely where those churches were located. Speculation falls into two camps, the “north Galatian” theory, centred on the original Gallic tribes; and the “south Galatian” theory, centred on towns in Romanized Pisidia-Lycaonia recorded in Acts. Both may be wrong.

    Why would “Paul” – or any other apostle from the Levant with a message for the Gentiles – eschew the more accessible, Greek-speaking coastal cities of Asia Minor for the uplands of Anatolia, populated by diverse, polyglot and warlike tribesmen? If this “frontier zone” provided credulous converts for a sharp-witted Jewish proselytizer, were these same illiterate tribesmen really the audience for an epistle of finely nuanced theology? Yet if it was to Roman colonies of the interior that Paul addressed his missive, why choose these Latin-speaking martial towns for a message of redemption and a critique of Judaism?

    Something about Paul’s dealings with the Galatians in not quite kosher.

  436. Seraphim 说:
    @Gapeseed

    It is as I said. The lunatics escaped from the asylum howling at the moon. Shame is a quality of sane people.

    • 同意: Gapeseed
  437. Robin Hood 说:

    Journeys with an Apostle – Second Mission. Philippi –The first Church in Europe or an origins myth?
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/philippi.htm

    The first Church in Europe or an origins myth?S t Paul’s supposed journeys have more symbolism than realism. Taking a closer look at the military colony where the apostle is said to have converted a seller of purple and his gaoler and founded the first church in Europe. Paul’s presence in Philippi is decidedly dubious.

    It is possible that a 1st century Christian apostle called Paul sailed from the port of Troas in Asia Minor and began an evangelical crusade in Europe – but extremely improbable. Not only is the purported journey unsupported by a shred of archaeological or historical evidence but the missionary’s itinerary is a curious mix of regurgitated fable and elements cribbed from secular history. The palpable literary devices used by the author of Acts of the Apostles to “move the story on” speak volumes of the symbolic, rather than historic, nature of Paul’s journey. …

    The incredulous conversions made by the apostle Paul in Philippi – the Asian “Lydia” (and her household!) and his overnight gaoler (and his household!) – underscore the entirely fictional nature of the supposed establishment of a foundational church by the apostle in this most unpromising of towns.

    The curious anticipations of divine word to be found in prosaic literature, the inane contrivances of plot found in the book of Acts, the palpable falsity of so-called epistles to Philippi, the martial character of this Latin city, the invisibility of the “resident evangelist” Luke – all point towards a single conclusion: Paul’s escapade and daring-do in Philippi is nothing other than pious fabrication.

    That a church was eventually established in the city no later than the 4th century is not in doubt. But its existence is most certainly the result of two processes: official patronage of the Christ cult which followed the triumph of Constantine; and the ernest desire to give physical form to an heroic “origins” tale already celebrated in a religious fable.

  438. Robin Hood 说:
    @Gapeseed

    1. Why is there no shame demonstrated by the Seraphims, Gapeseeds, and others of our orthodox/catholic discussion string participants and their ideological predecessors for having hijacked the early Christianity of Marcion and others based on the free thinking and peaceful concept of a spiritual Christ of the ancient world and carnalizing it into the corrupt, mind controlled, murderous, subversive judaic supremacist version based on the big lie of an earthly Jesus of Nazereth aka Cuckianity which morphed western civilization into the Dark Ages?

    THE ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE QUEST FOR THE HISTORICAL JESUS CHRIST
    https://jdstone.org/cr/files/theoriginsofchristianity.html

    From their own admissions, the early Christians were incessantly under criticism by scholars of great repute who were impugned as “heathens” by their Christian adversaries. This group included many Gnostics, who strenuously objected to the carnalization of their deity, as the Christians can be shown to have taken many of the characteristics of their god and god–man from the Gnostics, meaning “Ones who know,” a loose designation applied to members of a variety of esoteric schools and brotherhoods. The refutations of the Christians against the Gnostics reveal that the Christian god–man was an insult to the Gnostics, who held that their god could never take human form.

    查旧约吗? 可能有个好主意的早期基督徒
    https://nationalvanguard.org/2015/04/chuck-the-old-testament-an-early-christian-who-may-have-had-a-good-idea/

    Obviously, Marcion’s variation on Christianity is no more true than the established versions. But equally obviously, it will be many, many decades before the Semitic cult vanishes entirely — so it may be in our best interest to see that Marcion’s less-Jewish ideas take root among those who cannot fully face reality.

    HE WAS A NATIVE of Sinope, a predominantly Greek city and important commercial center on the south shore of the Black Sea. He lived roughly 85-160 AD, and during his lifetime he founded a church that grew astronomically in prominence, that had a powerful influence on the development of early Christianity, and which for several centuries would end up rivaling the Catholic Church. His name was Marcion. And it is worthwhile to ponder just how the world would be different today had the Marcionite Church, rather than the Catholic Church, prevailed and become the dominant strain of Christianity. For one thing, we can conjecture almost assuredly the state of Israel would never have been founded in 1948.

    [更多]

    Marcion, you see, was deeply opposed to what he referred to as the “Judaizers” in the early Christian Church, and he advocated a Christian Bible wholly devoid of any part of the Old Testament, consisting solely of the Gospel of Luke and the letters of Paul. With amazing prescience, he seems to have instinctively realized the pitfalls that awaited the new faith should it try to reconcile and balance the vengeful God of the Old Testament with the God of love and compassion taught by Christ — pitfalls which indeed managed to trip the church at various times through the centuries, but which became so manifestly egregious in the latter half of the twentieth century that today we find Christianity swamped in a sea of irrelevance, unsure of what it even stands for, with people leaving the faith in droves.

    And when you really, truly stop to think about it, the contradictions are so obvious they would seem all but insurmountable: the Christian God versus the Jewish God; a God of love versus one of wrath and vengeance; a God whose embrace of humanity is universal versus a partial and highly selective God who favors one people above all others. These are aberrations we hardly question today, but we have to remember that back in the second century things were very different. There was no such thing as an established “orthodox” wing of Christianity. What was “orthodox” and what was “heterodox” were still very much up in the air. Many people could not, and would not, adopt such incongruities in their views of God, and these were the people who flocked to Marcion’s churches — by the thousands, possibly even the millions.

    Modern scholarship of the early Christian era is tainted to a certain extent by what has been referred to as “post holocaust biblical scholarship.” This is reflected in the fact that scholars today have a tendency to view Marcion as an “anti-Semite.” However, the prevailing view of him by scholars of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries was quite different.

    Moreover, says Harnack, Marcion took up “the work and the struggle of Paul,” who had “abolished the validity of the Old Testament law” — Marcion, as a result, saw in Christ alone “the face of the gracious God,” knowing himself “inseparably bound to this God of goodness and mercy in faith and love.” But this God of goodness, it needs to be repeatedly emphasized, assuredly was not the Old Testament God; that God Marcion rejected outright.

    A Timeline of Catastrophe – Darkness Descends on the Greco-Roman World
    https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm

    2. Why is there no shame de