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吉普赛人简介
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“愿你永远在地球上徘徊,永远不要在同一张床上睡两次,不要从同一口井里喝两次水,一年不要两次跨过同一条河流。” ——古老的吉普赛诅咒。

首先,让我告诉你我与吉普赛人的亲身经历。 这些涵盖大约十年的时期,主要在意大利、罗马尼亚、德国和法国。

一个鲜明的记忆是一个可能 45 岁的吉普赛人,他的一条腿似乎严重扭曲和跛足,用拐杖支撑着,在我在罗马的广场上乞讨钱财。 看着这个人穿过路边和石板,在广场周围走来走去,希望能得到几枚硬币,真是痛苦。 大多数日子里他整个上午都在那儿,但在中午时分,他会暂停他的循环朝圣,停下来清空口袋,清点账单和零钱,显然他认为他已经足够吃一顿美餐了。 所以,他会站起来,把拐杖搭在肩上,跳华尔兹到街对面的餐厅吃午饭。

另一个美好的回忆是一个年轻的吉普赛女孩,可能只有 15 或 16 岁,坐在广场大教堂的台阶上,婴儿裹着襁褓,再次乞讨。 许多来来往往的去教堂的人都同情这个女孩并慷慨地给予。 但现在她的毯子变得凌乱了,完全没有注意到周围的教区居民,她打开毯子,把它摊开,重新折叠起来,让它又漂亮又整洁。 看到那里没有婴儿真是令人惊讶。 只是一张折叠得很巧妙的空毯子,加上可怜兮兮的表情和肢体语言,就足以过上好日子了。

我数不清有多少次在罗马(和其他城市)的街道上,一位非常迷人的年轻吉普赛妇女接近我,她 20 出头,带着一个婴儿。 她会非常接近我,亲密而友好,选择一个或另一个话题进行交谈,而她的婴儿在我们之间拿着一块大纸板。 没过多久,我就意识到那张纸板的目的是挡住我的视线,让她看到她空着的手伸向我的口袋。 它执行得很漂亮,加上一位年轻漂亮的母亲迷人的声音和可爱的微笑,消除了怀疑。 这些女孩无处不在。 我无法想象由于这个虚拟的年轻吉普赛母亲大军而消失的护照和钱包的数量。

我第二喜欢的经历是在罗马的一家零售店。 我不记得它卖的商品,但它有桌子而不是高架子,就像一个有50张桌子的台球厅,大小和高度差不多。 当我四处走动时,我注意到一个年轻的吉普赛女孩,可能 15 或 16 岁,在试图偷东西时被抓到,并且有几个男人试图逼迫她。 女孩闪躲着,几乎走到宽阔的出口门前,但两个成年男子挡住了通往外面的过道。 我希望你能在那里看到这个。 少女顿了顿,选了一个过道,直接冲到男人身边,在离他不到一尺的地方,猛地停了下来。 可就在这时,男人还没来得及将她抱在怀里,女孩就把毛衣拉了起来,娇嫩的美乳完全暴露在外。 男人似乎惊呆了,有一瞬间他愣住了,那一秒的时间足以让女孩躲到他的胳膊下消失在街上。 我钦佩不已,因为她的时机非常完美。 那个动作不仅是精心编排的,而且一定排练了 100 次,而且执行得和我见过的任何动作一样专业。 就像看成龙电影一样。

然而,我最喜欢的吉普赛故事发生在罗马尼亚,吉普赛人的“家”。 我和一个朋友在布加勒斯特市中心走来走去,在一个十字路口,我们遇到了一个大概 45 岁的吉普赛女人,她在人行道上摆了一张小桌子,上面摆着她正在卖的鲜花。 而且这些不是单枝玫瑰,而是精致美丽的稀有花卉花束,排列优雅。 我完全被打动了。 我对我的朋友说:“天啊,这里比罗马好多了。 在罗马,吉普赛人所做的就是乞讨和偷窃。 在这里,他们至少试图通过做一些有用的事情来赚钱。” 我的朋友说,“好吧,如果他们不从墓地偷花会更好。”

但并非所有事件都那么愉快。 我无法从我的记忆中抹去一个大约 8 或 10 岁的小吉普赛女孩,半坐着半躺在人行道上乞讨的画面。 她拉起她的裙子,露出一条扭曲得可怕的腿,这条腿似乎在几处折断,没有一个部件处于正确的位置或正确的角度。 更糟糕的是,那条腿大部分都被严重烧伤,比人肉更难看的疤痕组织。 想到这个孩子在她生命的早期一定经历过的痛苦是令人痛苦的。 捐款自然是丰厚的。 但后来我回想起几个月前在佛罗伦萨看到另一个年龄相仿的年轻女孩,她的伤势基本相同。 另一个在博洛尼亚、威尼斯、那不勒斯、巴黎和马赛。 我被迫得出结论,如此多的小吉普赛女孩遭受如此类似的伤害不可能是巧合。 这些伤害一定是故意造成的; 没有其他可能。

自从我住在罗马以来,情况可能已经发生了变化,但是当时吉普赛人几乎完全是游牧民族,因此没有吉普赛墓地。 没有人知道谁死了,他们是怎么死的,为什么死了,也不知道尸体发生了什么。 一个吉普赛氏族或一个团体的领袖对他的指挥者或多或少拥有生死权,而这个人可以因违法或年长者处以死刑。 他将决定何时以及哪些婴儿将受到身体伤害,以协助社区的乞讨工作。 正是这个人将指导和组织所有乞讨和盗窃的类别并安排指导和培训,并且根据经验判断,这必然会在很小的时候开始。

一些背景

吉普赛人在历史上一直是游牧民族、流浪的修补匠和小偷。 他们不会在任何一个地方安顿下来,而是不断地移动,通常开着五颜六色的马车旅行,在城镇停留一天或几天,然后继续前进。 他们好奇、新奇,而且经常很有趣。 许多人是优秀的音乐家或体操运动员,有时会在婚礼派对上提供娱乐,他们将有能力证明自己。 他们有时有小型马戏团,显然在训练熊等动物方面很有天赋。

大多数情况下,当他们进入城镇时,他们会为镇上的人做一些小修理——磨刀、修理锅碗瓢盆、做一些小金属工作。 男人大多是优秀的铁匠,经常给马穿鞋作为当地服务的一部分,而女人则从事服装修理和算命。 而且,当一些男人和女人如此订婚时,氏族的其余人会自由地在镇上漫游,偷走所有没有被确定下来的东西。 通常只有在他们离开后,镇上的人才会开始收到关于所有丢失物品的记录。 这太糟糕了,以至于欧洲的许多城镇开始付钱让吉普赛人一出现就离开。

吉普赛妇女被称为看手相和小偷,被怀疑是巫术。 1422 年的博洛​​尼亚编年史记载了一个吉普赛团体的访问:“在那些希望算命的人中,很少有人在钱包被偷的情况下去咨询。 乐队的女人在城里转悠,六八个人。 他们走进市民的家中,讲一些无稽之谈,其中一些人抓住了可以拿走的一切。 同样,他们以买东西为名去商店,但其中一个会偷东西。 当一个戴着头巾的吉普赛女人告诉你的命运时,她的孩子们会为你掏腰包。 据说吉普赛妇女会施法和行巫术; 吉普赛人是撬锁和偷马的专家。”

“他们总是搭起算命帐篷。 他们通过握住一个男人的手同时试图用另一只手去掏他的口袋来进行手相阅读。 在他们的帐篷前,我已经多次清楚地看到它。 有人告诉我,他们想让一个男人进去,一个年轻的女算命先生可以在一个男人的性行为中分散注意力,而妈妈则从帐篷的襟翼后面掏出他的后口袋。 但那是女人的工作。 搭建和拆除帐篷也是如此。 男人只是站在周围“监督”女人。 男人们真正的工作是白天在镇上的商店里装箱,在最后一天晚上破门而入,然后在早上收拾行李前往下一个城镇。”

随着时间的推移,他们显然成为了出色的驯马师和马商,在评估和偷窃方面对马肉的判断力非常出色。 他们还从事黑色金属和有色金属废金属的贸易和废物收集,过着合理的生活。 他们慢慢发展到一些小型零售企业,尽管大多数人仍然靠乞讨和盗窃发家致富。 但时代在变; 正如英国所震惊的那样,他们的主要才能之一是从英国政府非法收取社会援助。

欧洲的一些吉普赛人变得相对富裕,至少积累了价值 5 或 10 万欧元的财产,而那些不再是移民的人有时拥有非常大的房屋。 他们的职业也发生了变化:欧洲吉普赛人,尤其是罗马尼亚和德国的吉普赛人,大量参与非法房地产业务,偷来的豪华汽车是另一个最爱。 虽然吉普赛人还没有发展成为受人尊敬的银行业,但他们经常卷入洗钱和各种高利贷活动,通常以罗马尼亚或其他当地货币提供高息短期贷款。 在罗马尼亚,当您在街上或酒店以极具吸引力的汇率向您提供美元时,这些美元几乎总是假冒的(复制品也很出色),而卖家几乎总是吉普赛人。 勒索是另一个最爱。

但即使是定居和非游牧的吉普赛人仍然保持其基本的盗窃本性,法律问题是事件的正常过程。 罗马尼亚的八卦几乎每天都充斥着一些吉普赛人的豪宅再次遭到国际刑警组织特工的袭击。 其中一些与被带到英格兰执行乞讨和偷窃任务的小孩团队有关。 吉普赛人(现在仍然)一再被指控伪造几乎所有类型的伪造文件,包括财产所有权文件和居住文件。 早在 1400 年代早期就有记录讲述吉普赛人如何带着教皇的“安全行为信”在欧洲旅行,所有这些显然都是伪造的。 他们通常被指控各种欺骗、贪污和逃税,以及从电网窃取包括电力在内的一切。

罗马尼亚的一个网站发表了一位读者的评论:“吉普赛人所做的一切都是任何社区的负担。 你不能与没有法律、上帝、教育和道德的人一起生活。 大约 5 万吉普赛人中有多少人在工作? 很少,可能低于 XNUMX%。 但他们在无知中繁殖。 没有职业、没有家、没有未来的人,如何保证孩子的未来? 所有这些未来的吉普赛人都将成为欧洲未来的罪犯,未来的老人杀手,经过一生的工作,吉普赛人可以毫无问题地屠杀他们。

总统先生,罗马尼亚人为什么要忍受吉普赛人的恐怖? 多亏了吉普赛人,为什么在某个小时后不能在布加勒斯特旅行? 为什么罗马尼亚人应该被称为吉普赛人,而吉普赛人被称为罗姆人? 唤醒罗马尼亚人。 对于那些想知道罗马尼亚的吉普赛人做什么的人来说,他们是一个国中之国,法律只适用于罗马尼亚人的“吸盘”,他们为吉普赛人辛勤工作以获得社会福利并从哪里偷窃。”[1]https://asapteadimensiune.ro/de-ce-tiganii-nu-sunt-d...page-1

吉普赛人在罗马尼亚不受歧视

关于特兰西瓦尼亚的吉普赛人,历史学家 J. Lebprecht 写道,他们分为两类:“有永久居留权的人,他们部分从事农业,部分从事手工艺,尤其是铁匠,其中一些人以小提琴为生,进展顺利,过着平静的生活。 然后是村里的吉普赛人,他们不稳定,在全国游荡”。 三百年前穿越罗马尼亚国家的其他旅行者记得[这些]是偷走罗马尼亚人的孩子和马匹的恐怖种族。 最令人恐惧的类别是“neots”,即没有手艺、没有房屋或帐篷的吉普赛人,他们在全国四处游荡并[犯下]抢劫和谋杀罪。 另一项工作,除了锻造和黄铜,他们几乎没有。 【他们的】本性和其他国家一样,他们有相同的道德和最高的美德,具体的区别是偷窃和懒惰。”

有趣的是,当然在罗马尼亚,但在其他欧洲国家,吉普赛人很少被追究这些罪行的责任。 在罗马尼亚的一个案件中,一名吉普赛人在出售财产时犯下了令人震惊的欺骗行为,基本上被法官宽恕,只被判缓刑两年。 在最近的另一起案件中,罗马尼亚国家廉政署通知税务监察局,一名看似富有的吉普赛人至少有几十万欧元的收入没有纳税,一年内申报的收入为 38,000 欧元,但花费了 140,000 欧元。 官员没有采取任何行动。

似乎某些吉普赛人已经完善了暗示自己进入官场渠道的技巧,以便或多或少地保证免于起诉。 勒索可能在这个过程中起到了一定的作用,但这可能只是一个次要部分,也许是一种支持,因为这些“子集”中的许多人显然已经成为与最高关系的“法庭之友”的专家各级政府和司法部门。 例如在罗马尼亚,一些富有的吉普赛人与总统的兄弟姐妹是亲密的朋友,出席精英新生的洗礼,定期参加总理母亲的葬礼等等。

我在罗马尼亚和其他几个欧洲国家的朋友告诉我,普通公民会被关进监狱,但警察和当局似乎容忍吉普赛人的犯罪行为,他们随后繁荣昌盛。 他们声称这在很大程度上是因为他们有能力参与当地的政治和社会事务,经常看到与高级别和地位的人共享一张桌子——政治家、警察、法官、检察官、商人。 对于这种影响是如何产生的,他们没有简单的解释,但许多人认为它是从一个中央来源精心策划的,并利用了一种本能的天赋。

他们可以是惊人的大胆。 在罗马尼亚雅西村的一个例子中,一群吉普赛人征用了一块墓地,搭起帐篷,开始烧烤小猪,并举办了一场盛大的派对。 他们甚至没收了教堂。 他们只是声称该地区是他们的,并拒绝进入镇民埋葬他们的死者。 当地警方不知为何似乎无能为力,只是媒体的强烈抗议才被迫采取了一些行动。

作为一项规则,吉普赛人不会同化。 他们可能会采用他们所生活的社会的肤浅装饰,甚至包括当地的宗教,尽管他们几乎从未在教堂中出现并保持自己的婚姻传统。 在英国,至少直到最近,吉普赛人还在为维持并成功地获得政府官方批准他们的游牧生活方式而进行了激烈的斗争。 因此,大多数人没有在任何地方注册,没有义务让他们的孩子上学,实际上是作为一个州中的一个州,一群匿名和独立的流动者。

这似乎并不全是坏事:“在普罗旺斯,吉普赛人似乎受到欢迎。 正是在那里,他们开始被称为波西米亚人。 人们蜂拥而至,以求算命。 吉普赛人声称其中有公爵和伯爵,后来又增加了船长和国王。 西班牙贵族起初保护吉普赛人。 吉普赛妇女因其美丽和诱人的魅力而受到崇拜; 吉普赛人被推崇为马匹质量的优秀评判者,并被贵族雇佣为他们的马厩采购它们。”

但好时光似乎并没有持续多久; 吉普赛人通常受到非常恶劣的对待,一个又一个国家被驱逐出境。

吉普赛人驱逐

在英格兰,通过了 1530 年的埃及法案,将吉普赛人驱逐出境,因为他们是淫荡的流浪者,骗取好公民的钱财,并犯下一系列重罪抢劫案。 1562 年,伊丽莎白女王签署了一项命令,旨在迫使吉普赛人定居在永久住宅中,否则将面临死亡。 在詹姆斯一世国王的统治下,英国开始将吉普赛人驱逐到美洲殖民地,以及牙买加和巴巴多斯。 向殖民地倾倒不受欢迎的人成为一种普遍的做法,不仅是吉普赛人,还有“小偷、乞丐和妓女”——这些人构成了北美的早期人口。 西班牙、葡萄牙、英格兰、苏格兰、法国、德国、瑞士、丹麦、瑞典、埃及多次遭到驱逐。

在苏格兰,“1624 年颁布了一项法令,将逮捕并绞死旅行的吉普赛男子,没有孩子的吉普赛妇女将被淹死,有孩子的吉普赛妇女将被鞭打并在脸颊上烙上烙印。” 许多人因为是“埃及人”而被绞死。 1497 年,神圣罗马帝国的议会(立法机关)颁布法令,将所有吉普赛人驱逐出德国从事间谍活动。 1510年,瑞士效仿,增加了死刑。 一位瑞士编年史家谴责吉普赛人是“在我们这个时代四处游荡的无用无赖,其中最值得称道的是小偷,因为他们只为偷窃而活。”

“133 年至 1551 年间,神圣罗马帝国通过了 1774 项针对吉普赛人的法律。其中一项于 1710 年通过,规定在德国成为吉普赛妇女或吉普赛老人是犯罪行为。 他们被广泛认为是不敬虔和邪恶的民族。 违反者将被鞭笞、烙印并驱逐出境。 在德国成为一名吉普赛人将被判处无期徒刑和苦役。 吉普赛人的孩子被带离他们并被安置在良好的基督教家庭中。 1493 年,他们被禁止进入米兰,因为他们是扰乱和平的乞丐和小偷。”

“吉普赛人在德国从来没有受到欢迎。 接近 XNUMX 世纪末,随着德国人赞同意大利犯罪学家 Cesare Lombroso 的理论,情况变得更糟。 他的一个想法是犯罪是遗传的。 作为一个证明,隆布罗索指出了吉普赛人,他将吉普赛人描述为一代又一代的自负、无耻、无动于衷、吵闹、放荡和暴力的人。 更不用说木偶戏和手风琴演奏家了。

“在 1886 年,俾斯麦注意到“关于吉普赛人在帝国四处游荡造成的恶作剧以及他们对人口的日益骚扰的抱怨。” 1899 年,在慕尼黑设立了一个票据交换所,以整理有关吉普赛人流动的报告。 德国人普遍认为,游牧的吉普赛人打着艺人和香水商的幌子,但实际上专注于乞讨和偷窃。 这些人天生反对一切工作,尤其难以容忍对游牧生活的任何限制。”

“到 1960 年代,吉普赛大篷车现在主要由机动车辆牵引,帐篷在很大程度上被简陋的棚屋所取代。 许多人住在国家提供的贫民窟住房中。 大多数吉普赛人仍然没有受过教育和文盲。 许多人成为废品经销商,有些人用铜生产装饰性的艺术品。 吉普赛妇女仍然以算命和乞讨着称。 一些吉普赛儿童转向入店行窃、扒窃和偷车,因为他们不受起诉。”

“欧洲共同体 1989 年的一份报告指出,在 35 个成员国的 500,000 名吉普赛儿童中,只有 12% 定期上学; 一半从未上过学; 几乎没有人继续接受中等教育; 吉普赛成年人的文盲率为 50%。 在法国和意大利,吉普赛家庭仍然在马戏团和露天市场工作。 在许多国家,他们经营各种类型的维修服务; 出售二手车、家具、古董和垃圾; 卖地毯和纺织品。 他们仍然在兜售、制作音乐和算命。”

“吉普赛人于 1416 年被命令驱逐出德国的迈森地区、1471 年的卢塞恩、1493 年的米兰、1504 年的法国、1512 年的加泰罗尼亚、1525 年的瑞典、1530 年的英格兰和 1536 年的丹麦。从 1510 年起,任何罗姆人发现在瑞士将被处决,而在英格兰(从 1554 年开始)和丹麦(从 1589 年开始)任何一个月内未离开的罗姆人都将被处决。 葡萄牙于 1538 年开始将罗姆人驱逐到其殖民地。”

吉普赛人在整个荷兰被屠杀而不受惩罚,这是为了彻底消灭整个种族。 “在欧洲其他地方,他们遭受种族清洗、绑架孩子和强迫劳动。 在英格兰,罗姆人有时会被驱逐出小社区或被绞死; 在法国,他们被烙上烙印,剃光头; 在摩拉维亚和波希米亚,这些妇女的特点是耳朵被割掉。 结果,大批罗姆人向东迁移,向更宽容的波兰和俄罗斯,只要他们缴纳年度税款,罗姆人就会受到更公平的对待。”

“尽管大多数吉普赛人离开了奥斯曼帝国并搬到了欧洲,但仍有一些人留下了。 1696 年,苏丹穆斯塔法二世下令惩戒吉普赛人不道德和无序的生活方式。 他们被描述为“皮条客和妓女”,并颁布法令来规范吉普赛人的卖淫行为。”

“定居的人通常对没有固定地址的无根无主的流浪者持怀疑态度。 吉普赛人像其他人一样周游欧洲(除了皈依犹太教并遭受王国灭绝的可萨人),因此他们比大多数人更了解各个国家发生的事情以及居民的活动。 这导致谣言说吉普赛人被用作间谍。”

应该注意后一段。 有重复的故事,许多显然记录在案,吉普赛人肯定“比大多数人更了解各国正在发生的事情”,并且很可能收集有关政府和法院事务的情报,同样他们显然有能力暗示自己进入政治和社会结构不同的城市和国家。 间谍指控几乎自然会随之而来,而且很可能是有道理的。

我还要指出,对吉普赛人的驱逐甚至大部分虐待似乎都不是出于强烈的“反吉普赛人”情绪的种族动机,而是更多地出于对他们的罪行和社会的累积和激怒的不容忍- 不可接受的行为。 虽然平心而论,后者的过度往往会导致前者的过度,但仍不能免责。

历史和起源

“吉普赛人长期以来一直是地球上最神秘、最奇异的民族之一,被描述为没有真正家园的游牧民族。 吉普赛人确实有自己的语言罗姆语,他们认为自己是罗姆人。 几个世纪以来,吉普赛人的历史一直不为人知,主要是因为他们没有书面语言,而且奇怪的是,他们忘记了自己来自哪里。 吉普赛人通常声称自己是埃及人——因此得名“吉普赛人”。 尽管这些人被证明不是埃及人,但吉普赛这个名字(以及“吉普”这个词)仍然存在。”

吉普赛人的起源长期以来一直是历史学家好奇的话题。 目前的情况似乎是很少有历史学家非常了解,而且大多是在猜测。 维基百科告诉我们“基因发现表明罗姆人(吉普赛人)起源于印度。 由于罗姆人群体没有保留他们的历史编年史或对其进行口头记录,因此关于罗姆人迁移早期历史的大多数假设都是基于语言学理论的。” Wiki 还告诉我们,“也没有已知的从中世纪迁移到欧洲的记录可以无可争辩地与罗马联系在一起。”

这是今天仍然存在的典型猜测。 可疑的遗传发现“表明”吉普赛人可能起源于印度西北部,并且可疑的语言研究已经确定了吉普赛语中与梵语有一些相似之处的少数单词或表达方式。 但是,如果罗姆人(吉普赛人)确实起源于印度,则没有任何迁移的已知记录,因此整个理论只是一个理论。

历史上这些人的运动可能会令人着迷。 它让我们想起了匈牙利人——马扎尔人——的困惑,因为他们显然不是欧洲民族,他们的语言绝不是欧洲语言,但他们居住在欧洲内部的一个国家。 多年来,人们提出了许多理论,这些理论大多基于不知情的推测,直到人们发现这个民族是蒙古人,几个世纪前从西蒙古移民到或多或少地在东欧中心形成了一个新家园。 据我所知,目前还没有人知道这将如何发生或为什么会发生。

就吉普赛人而言,考虑到他们相对突然出现在欧洲所有国家的时间,或多或少同时发生了许多这样的民族运动,也许与可萨里亚的毁灭和部分灭绝的吉普赛人同时发生。可萨人及其在欧洲所有国家的出现也相对突然。

我们可能参与了蒙古人的入侵,这大约发生在吉普赛人出现的同时,还有来自俄罗斯大草原的鞑靼人。 除了可萨人之外,我们还有基辅罗斯人、佩切涅格人和库曼人——他们可能是驱使马扎尔人进入现在匈牙利的人。 根据一些罗马尼亚记者和历史学家的说法,吉普赛人是在蒙古人最后一次入侵时抵达该地区的,这把吉普赛人拖到了这里。

不管这件事的真相是什么,而且我假装没有这方面的专业知识,有许多事实表明罗姆人并非起源于印度,而是现在被认为是欧洲人的某种形式。 虽然我不熟悉各地的所有吉普赛人,但我见过很多,而且似乎没有一个是印度血统。 有些是黑色的,但如果不是大多数的话,很多似乎是欧洲品牌而不是印度品牌。 许多人可能会以意大利人、罗马尼亚人、俄罗斯人或匈牙利人的身份通过。 你可以在下面看到吉普赛女孩的照片。

从 1866 年 XNUMX 月开始,大西洋杂志的档案中有一篇引人入胜的文章,在一篇由乔治华盛顿霍斯默撰写的文章中断言吉普赛人实际上是欧洲人。 作者说,数百年来他们一直被称为“波希米亚人”,“值得注意的是,在试图揭开这个谜团的过程中,人们很少考虑这个名字。” 他正确地指出,吉普赛人是游牧民族,他们“住在旷野的马车营地,发誓永远不再睡在屋顶下。 他们还拒绝服从任何君主。”[2]https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/02...27983/

吉普赛人的起源; 乔治·华盛顿·霍斯默; 1886 年 XNUMX 月号

Hosmer 还指出,虽然语言与印度教方言有相似之处,但波西米亚语的相似性甚至比印度教血统更好。 “波希米亚人是捷克人,斯拉夫种族的一个分支,毫无疑问是亚洲血统,而捷克语几乎与印度教方言一样直接从梵文继承下来。 这就是为什么印度教方言和吉普赛语——如果吉普赛人是波西米亚人——应该非常相似的一个很好的理由。 它们来自同一个父系。” 他说:“吉普赛语是瓦拉几亚语、斯拉夫语、匈牙利语和其他国家的腐败词的混合体。 这些是斯拉夫种族的同源语言,都来自同一个来源,这也是切赫语的来源。 有史以来第一个吉普赛语词表被引用来证明其起源于埃及,[但]它们是斯拉夫语。”

结语

我不知道是否有可能在整个欧洲的可萨人和吉普赛人的迁移之间建立联系,但似乎有一些共同因素表明吉普赛人甚至可能是可萨人或人的下层阶级相似的。 不管这件事的真相是什么,这是我的猜测,这两个民族之间似乎确实存在一些共同的共同因素。

两人都被赶出原籍,没有祖国。 下界有书面语言。 两人都在流动,非常独立,发誓不效忠任何国家,并且明显不愿被征服或同化。 尽管偏好的犯罪类型不同,但这两个群体似乎都有通过不被接受的方式追求财富的悠久历史。 可萨人和吉普赛人都表现出一种天生的能力,可以在不同程度上暗示自己进入权威机构,而且他们似乎都拥有创造个人免疫力的能力。 两者都有“比大多数人更了解不同国家正在发生的事情”的能力。

而且,当然,这两个群体都因其行为而受到辱骂,并被他们选择定居的几乎每个国家一再驱逐。 更险恶的是,这两个团体似乎都认为他们的“次要成员”是可以牺牲的。

在 1960 年代和 1970 年代,许多电视节目的结尾都带有一种免责声明:“任何与真实人物、生者或死者、真实事件(或其他种族)的相似之处纯属巧合。” 我可以在这里做出这样的免责声明。

我必须承认,在上述评论中,我通过呈现整个种族的一维图景,无意中诽谤了许多吉普赛人。 确实,上述描述虽然真实准确,但仅代表吉普赛人的一个子集。 今天有许多人确实在某种程度上同化了,他们是优秀和正直的公民,他们不应该得到上述的描述。 这在北美和南美的侨民中可能比在欧洲更真实。

这是一个引人入胜的主题,值得阅读和研究,但我要提醒读者,关于吉普赛人的主题,互联网上有大量不知情的垃圾,特别是关于他们的起源、社会结构、传统和习俗、行为。 其中大部分几乎是高中水平,因此建议谨慎。 一个网站告诉我们“罗姆人的社会行为受到印度社会习俗的严格规定”,这是无稽之谈,另一个网站说“未婚吉普赛妇女必须保持童贞”,也是无稽之谈。 同样,“罗姆人的传统之一是十五岁结婚。 区分未婚女性和已婚女性,要注意已婚女性的头上盖着一块叫做“Batic”的布,是已婚女性的象征。” 如果是这样,我从来没有见过。

我为你积累了一些参考资料(下面的“阅读”)。 第一个是我发现的最好的之一。 它似乎没有错误信息和意识形态,并且非常出色、有趣、内容丰富且易于阅读。

罗曼诺夫先生的著作已被翻译成 32 种语言,他的文章发表在 150 多个国家的 30 多个外文新闻和政治网站以及 100 多个英语语言平台上。 拉里·罗曼诺夫(Larry Romanoff)是一位退休的管理顾问和商人。 他曾在国际咨询公司担任高级管理职务,并拥有一家国际进出口业务。 他曾是上海复旦大学的客座教授,向高级 EMBA 课程介绍国际事务中的案例研究。 罗曼诺夫先生现居上海,目前正在撰写一系列与中国和西方有关的十本书。 他是辛西娅·麦金尼(Cynthia McKinney)新选集《当中国打喷嚏时》的特约作者之一。 (第 2 章——与恶魔打交道)。 http://www.bluemoonofshanghai.com/politics/2187/

他的完整档案可以在以下位置看到: http://www.bluemoonofshanghai.com/https://www.moonofshanghai.com/

可以通过以下方式与他联系: [电子邮件保护]

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Gypsies

吉普赛人的历史

https://allthatsinteresting.com/gypsies-history

没有国家的民族:吉普赛人

https://www.romanianhistoryandculture.com/vlachspechenegscumans.htm

罗马尼亚历史和文化; Pechenegs、Cumans 和 Vlachs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs

佩切涅格人

https://adevarul.ro/locale/focsani/lucruri-putin-stiute-despre-tigani-venit-s-au-raspandit-principatele-romane-erau-proprietatea-statului-tiganii-domnesti-1_5673ef3f37115986c691199a/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

罗曼人

https://atinganos.wordpress.com/2011/11/26/tigani-bogati-din-romania/

富有的吉普赛人在罗马尼亚

https://www.partidaromilor.ro/romii-origini-limba-traditii-istorie/

罗马:起源、语言、传统、历史

https://naayram.blogspot.com/2012/02/tigani-nu-romi.html

吉普赛人,而不是罗马人

https://www.dezvaluirea.ro/tiganii-au-confiscat-un-cimitir-din-iasi-purcei-la-protap-crestinii-n-au-fost-lasati-sa-si-depuna-mortii-foto/

吉普赛人没收了雅西的一座墓地。 小猪上吐痰,基督徒不准躺尸。 照片

附注

[1] https://asapteadimensiune.ro/de-ce-tiganii-nu-sunt-discriminati-in-romania.html/comment-page-1

吉普赛人在罗马尼亚不受歧视

[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/02/the-origin-of-the-gypsies/627983/

吉普赛人的起源; 乔治·华盛顿·霍斯默; 1886 年 XNUMX 月号

 
• 类别: 文化/社会, 发展史 •标签: 吉普赛人 
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  1. LH 说:

    有一个解释,为什么吉普赛人也被称为波西米亚人。 1417 年和 1423 年,大批吉普赛人通过波西米亚向西行进。 皇家办公室为他们提供了一份文件,要求他们保护并在他们离开该国的途中给予所有帮助。 这些团体最终到达法国,由 Rex Bohemorum 签署的文件已被保存下来。

    • 回复: @Jett Rucker
  2. 在欧洲以外的其他国家,罗姆人或罗姆人看起来更加东方化,毫无疑问他们的起源是印度还是其他地方——很明显,这些人确实来自印度,无论是外表还是衣服风俗习惯,他们的语言与该地区的其他民族有相似之处。

    他们的 DNA 可以追溯到克什米尔地区。 然后,罗姆人从克什米尔迁移到波斯,后来到中东其他地区,再到欧洲。 东方罗姆人被称为 D'om,这个词起源于印度教,指的是特定的演员,与贱民有关。 公平地说,它何时发生尚不确定。

    然而有趣的是,他们的文化具有与犹太人没有太大区别的特征。 例如,罗姆人认为他们的传统,称为 Romanipen 使他们与世界上所有其他人不同。 局外人以及那些不追随罗曼尼彭的罗姆人被认为是劣等的。

    行为规则不适用于非罗姆人,对他们犯下的罪行也不会受到惩罚。 世界上所有其他民族和民族都被称为加乔。 gadjo 是黑人还是白人并没有区别——他不追随 Romanipen,因此他的灵魂是不纯洁的。 他不值得被称为男人。

    传统的犹太旋律与罗姆人的旋律如此相似这一事实也不是巧合。 在波斯帝国或曾经属于它的领土上曾经存在,并且在一定程度上仍然存在大量犹太人口。 可以肯定的是,罗马人可能从犹太人那里接受了这些观点。

  3. @Here Be Dragon

    “在欧洲以外的其他国家,罗姆人或罗姆人看起来更加东方化,毫无疑问他们的原籍是印度还是其他地方——很明显,这些人确实来自印度,无论是在外表还是在他们的服装和风俗,在他们的语言中与该地区的其他民族有相似之处。 他们的 DNA 可以追溯到克什米尔地区。 然后,罗姆人从克什米尔迁移到波斯,后来到中东其他地区,再到欧洲。”

    您上面的评论被断然陈述为事实,但有些观察是不正确的。 您在某处的文章中引用了曾经被认为是“标准”的立场,但其中大部分是有争议的。

    一方面,罗姆人要么来自印度,看起来像印度血统,要么模仿印度的服装和习俗,这并不是“显而易见的”,至少对我或我的欧洲同事来说不是。 我完全了解 DNA 研究,但它们并不能最终证明上述任何一点。 并且没有记录表明从印度到欧洲的大规模移民可以与罗姆人联系起来。 这都是无谓的猜测。

    欧洲以外的罗姆人数量相当少,最大的集中在南美洲,数百年前西班牙和葡萄牙人将这些人驱逐出境。 这些并不“看起来像印度人”。

    我完全同意你的评估,即在基本态度以及他们的一般历史上与(可萨)犹太人有许多相似之处。

    再一次,我要告诫不要在互联网上阅读一篇文章并自动假设它是“权威性工作”。 注入不知情的个人意见只会使我们误入歧途。 这是一个充满好奇心和兴趣的复杂问题,应该仅从寻求真理和理解的角度来处理。 在这样的事情中注入个人观点和意识形态是没有帮助的,至少不会没有“这就是我选择相信的东西”的前言。

  4. 你忘了提到“可萨人”实际上是德系犹太人。 我们这个时代的基本谎言之一是,当前的犹太人口是希伯来人,而他们实际上是突厥人。 犹太人与巴勒斯坦的联系为零。 非犹太人犯下的最严重错误之一是允许犹太人从其合法所有者那里窃取巴勒斯坦。 Arthur James Balfour 有很多要回答的问题。
    但这种盗窃是犹太人所代表的一切的典型。 他们是不道德的小偷、骗子、杀人犯和骗子,需要被驱逐出所有欧洲国家。
    犹太人/可萨人几乎在各方面都与吉普赛人一模一样。 他们与文明格格不入,事实上,无论他们在哪里定居,都是一种可怕的破坏性力量。 他们应对当前基督教文明的毁灭负责; 历史上最成功的。 现在走了。
    犹太人目前最大的骗局是说服白人崇拜黑人,同时将黑人和其他非白人武装起来对抗白人。
    是时候醒来并努力反击了。 极难。

    • 谢谢: Trinity, littlewing
    • 回复: @Richard B
    , @Dream
    , @simple mind
  5. Anonymous[384]• 免责声明 说:

    首先,一个文盲怎么可能成为伪造专家?

    其次,DNA 证据毫无疑问地证明了吉普赛人的印度血统。
    事实上,这已经被人们知道了几个世纪。

    • 同意: Alden
    • 回复: @Rogue
    , @Dutch Boy
    , @Jakie
  6. Boo 说:

    吉普赛人确实来自印度的某些地方。 关于吉普赛人的最著名的电影之一是由埃米尔库斯图里卡(Emir Kusturica)使用业余吉普赛演员用英语称为“吉普赛人的时代”。 我把它拿给我的古吉拉特印度朋友看,他设法从中认出了很多印地语单词,例如“爱”。 在电影中最令人难忘的场景之一中,吉普赛人在类似于印度教传统的河流上释放漂浮的蜡烛和花环。
    他们在文化上与达利特人密切相关,达利特人甚至在印度都不是种姓,只是被禁止从与其他种姓相同的井中饮水的人,以及达利特人应该遵循的其他行为规则。
    他们到达欧洲的最有可能的途径是与土耳其人一起在 13-14 世纪向西迁移。

    • 同意: simple mind
    • 回复: @Libertarian66
    , @Alden
  7. @Larry Romanoff

    那么什么是没有争议的。 我没有引用文章中的一句话,但我当然可以引用。 我可以参考一些研究。 但是我不打算争论,为了澄清,让我改写一件事。 我说过,在欧洲以外的国家,罗马人看起来更加东方化,这是毫无疑问的——那就是在那些国家,无论他们的起源是印度还是其他地方,因为这是显而易见的。

    俄罗斯有数十万罗姆人,在俄罗斯人中很流行以一种讽刺的方式称呼印度教人,称他们为罗姆人——两人的外表有很多共同点,包括衣服。 然而 DNA 研究不是我们可以在这里争论的事情,我也不是学者。 对我来说,如果某物看起来像鸭子,那么它一定是某种鸭子就足够了。

    [更多]
    但在这里,一个可靠的生物学证据:

    从全基因组数据重建欧洲罗曼人的人口史
    https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(12)01260-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982212012602%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

    “本研究是迄今为止关于欧洲罗姆人全基因组特征和人口历史的最全面调查。 我们的数据表明,欧洲罗姆人有一个共同的遗传起源,这可以广泛地归因于印度西北部。”

    这是语言学家的意见:

    论吉普赛人的印度语和起源
    https://web.archive.org/web/20060929115310/http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/Research/Projects/romani/downloads/1/ruediger_translation.pdf

    “因此,我得出结论,吉普赛人和印第安人构成一个民族。 这为他们的起源和整个历史提供了新的线索,现在我们能够将语言证据与吉普赛人的所有其他历史条件和特征进行比较,我们发现它们完全匹配和对应。”

    • 同意: Bardon Kaldian, Joe Paluka
    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  8. RoatanBill 说:

    虚荣、无耻、无动于衷、吵闹、放荡、暴力的人

    我不知道美国黑人是吉普赛人。

    • 哈哈: Charles, Che Guava
  9. Rahan 说:

    今天有许多人确实在某种程度上同化了,他们是优秀和正直的公民,他们不应该得到上述的描述。

    现在在任何东南欧城镇的中央街道上散步,你会发现至少有五分之一的居民明显是他们的父母或祖父母已融入该文化的笨蛋。 您还会看到一部分黑人紧张地试图实时同化,但仍无法失去唱歌的吉普赛口音。

    直到你和一个棕色的黑发女郎交谈,兴奋而坚定地向你解释“我们斯拉夫人这个那个”,你还没有活过:D

    但是,是的,来自上述分裂的种族核心,确实是一个流动的混乱之源。 现在是 EE 作家进行 Cimmerian 冒险的时候了,Amra 暂时成为某个吉普赛商队的战争领袖。

    现在我突然想起了俄罗斯有爱的吉普赛女孩打架的场景。 得重看那部电影。 为了科学。

    • 回复: @aandrews
  10. @Here Be Dragon

    我会对你的个人观察感兴趣。 你们国家的吉普赛人似乎有印度血统吗? 你见过、见过或认识的吉普赛人是否符合这种描述?

  11. Lurker 说:

    不列颠群岛的吉普赛人似乎经历了一定程度的同化。 也许他们在英国和爱尔兰被切断了足够长的时间?

    冷战结束后,当我第一次看到来自欧洲的全面吉普赛人时,我对他们看起来如此陌生感到震惊。 根本不是欧洲人。 我肯定会去印度的解释。

    • 同意: Irish Savant
    • 谢谢: Larry Romanoff
    • 回复: @Pheasant
    , @Skeptikal
    , @Che Guava
  12. Realist 说:
    @RoatanBill

    我不知道美国黑人是吉普赛人。

    他们……还有一个属性……平均而言,他们比吉普赛人更愚蠢。

  13. RoatanBill 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    很多年前我看过一部关于印度低种姓的纪录片,他们的一个特点是残废 孤儿 孩子们为了拉皮条他们的情绪,老外自然会觉得给他们钱。

    除了瘫痪他们的四肢,他们最喜欢做的事情之一就是让他们失明。 我不敢相信有这么恶心的人存在,但视频证据很清楚,皮条客承认了。 吉普赛人也因为他们可以带来的可怜钱而使他们的孩子残废,这提供了一种微弱的联系暗示。

  14. @Larry Romanoff

    是的,就像我说的。 你可能见过,也可能没见过,但在印度北部,人们并不太黑,有些人实际上相当浅。 这是来自拉贾斯坦的罗姆人。

    顺便说一句,我注意到在英国的罗马人看起来有点不同——被同化了很多。 但在其他地方或多或少相似,非常相似。 这里是俄罗斯罗姆人。

    至少在东欧,他们中的大多数人都保持着种姓制度,就像印度教一样,只是他们没有婆罗门和战士。 来自瑞典的罗姆人。

    所以我猜他们对他人的态度也可能源于印度教。 犹太教和印度教有很多相似之处。 鸡还是蛋的问题。

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  15. NSDAP 在其统治期间对德国吉普赛人的官方立场是什么? 任何人?

  16. @RoatanBill

    “我多年前看过一部关于印度低种姓的纪录片,他们的一个特点是残废孤儿,以便拉皮条,因为外国人自然会觉得给他们钱。”

    感谢您发布此信息。 在吉普赛世界之外,我从未听说过这种做法。

    有证据表明,其他一些种族很容易牺牲他们的“次等”成员,尽管不是以这种方式。

    • 回复: @Anon
  17. @Here Be Dragon

    感谢您发布照片。 非常感激。

    但是,我希望的是基于您的个人经验的判断。 但是,根据您在评论中的做法,我认为您从未在现实生活中见过吉普赛人。 我并不是说这是一种罪过。 只是我希望获得一些现实生活中的信息。

    我也假设你没有去过印度。 我对么?

    在您发布的照片​​中,许多面孔似乎并不表示印度种族背景,而是高加索人。 你同意?

    你说:“我注意到在英国的罗马人看起来有点不同——被同化了很多。 ”

    您是否有证据支持您的假设,即高加索人的外表是由于“同化”而不是种族起源? 这种说法很重要。 到最后,我们可以大胆地声称所有看起来不像印度人的人都在杂交,这显然是错误的。

    你能把英国罗姆人的照片贴出来吗——那些看起来被同化的人。

    你还说:“至少在东欧,他们中的大多数人都保持着种姓制度,就像印度教一样……”

    我对东欧吉普赛人的亲身经历非常熟悉,我没有看到任何迹象表明存在像印度教那样的种姓制度。 这对我来说似乎是一个巨大的延伸。 您能否提供任何现实生活中的参考资料作为此类事情的证据? 或者你能详细说明这个断言的来源吗? 这很重要。 我们不需要学术推测或理论,而是需要现实生活中的证据。

    我提前致谢。

  18. Biff 说:

    当我在乌克兰时,我被一群吉普赛人袭击/抢劫。 刺!

    • 回复: @Gym
  19. Biff 说:
    @RoatanBill

    在泰国,乞丐皮条客进入老挝或柬埔寨寻找地雷/未爆弹药受害者,并将他们带回旅游区(被炸掉的四肢越多越好)过去是很常见的。 大约十年前,当局禁止这种做法,但每隔一段时间你就会看到它发生。

    • 回复: @AndrewR
  20. Pop Warner 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    当我在东欧时,我看到的吉普赛人看起来像印度人。 他们当然不像当地的斯拉夫人。 令人惊讶的是,当他们明显是南亚人时,好莱坞总是把他们描绘成橄榄色的皮肤

  21. @halfhearted

    归入“阿索夏莱” 即像对待任何其他工作害羞的人一样对待
    惯犯。
    – 在西匈牙利,他们在玛丽亚·特蕾西亚的统治下被强行定居,但
    除了音乐家和少数地毯商还固守老路
    (阅读:贫民窟); 这些看起来有点像巴尔干人,在找工作时
    通常认定为希腊人。
    ——捷克人把它们安置在前苏台德德国人的房子里,
    而且氛围肯定是后世界末日的(美丽的 新艺术风格 仅住房
    使情况变得更糟); 每当你停下来,你就会得到当地版本的 squigee boy,
    只有 4 英寸。 钉子,如果你不付钱,就和你的油漆工作说再见吧。
    这些看起来绝对不是欧洲人,是“捷克铁人三项”的提供者
    (= 游过摩尔达瓦,跑到 Freistadt,偷一辆自行车然后骑车回家)。
    – 最短的时间被罗马尼亚人忽视:在整个欧洲的犯罪报告中
    吉普赛人被称为“罗马尼亚人”,罗马尼亚人痛恨恨它。
    “Gypsy”和“csigan”是 n 个词,见(犹太人也从未被提及;
    另一个共同点是两者都有一个“不是我们”的词-“gajo”
    与“goy”相比,在人种学术语中极为罕见)。

    – 捷克人可能是混蛋,但他们比普鲁士人更日耳曼人;
    “亚洲人”? 【邪恶科学家的笑声,又长又硬】

  22. repugnant 说:

    没有提到这些人是谁的一组是“红人”。 他们遍布世界各地。 除南极洲外的所有大陆。 令人惊讶的是,他们没有土地。 北美、南美、“Pikies”、“Lapplanders”、“Nenets”和“Evenkis”、“Māori”、澳大利亚的“Aboriginals”。 尽管这些民族在他们居住的土地上是静止的,但他们并没有完全拥有它。 只是想我会指出这一点。

    • 回复: @Tomorrow We Live
  23. anonymous[183]• 免责声明 说:

    西蒙·艾格 (Simon Age) 流行的语言极客网站 Omniglot 是这样说吉普赛语的:

    罗姆语或罗姆语是一种印度-雅利安语,在欧洲和美国约有 5-6 百万罗姆人使用……该语言与印度北部的语言密切相关,尤其是旁遮普语

    我自己对东欧罗姆人以及印度人的经验是,一些吉普赛人(远非全部)确实具有强烈的南亚印度次大陆外观。 类似于阿什肯纳兹犹太人,他们从外表相当“犹太人”到蓝眼睛的雅利安人。

    上面的 Omniglot 网站给出了一个看起来可信的吉普赛起源视图:

    公元 1000 年左右,穆斯林对印度次大陆北部的入侵导致人口大规模迁移,其中可能包括被认为已迁入安纳托利亚的罗姆人的祖先。 1300年,蒙古人入侵欧洲后,罗姆人向西迁入欧洲,开始了以游牧为主的生活方式。

    罗姆人是东欧人反移民情绪的主要因素。 人们的看法是,考虑到罗姆人在欧洲至少有三分之二的千年时间,对某些群体的同化是行不通的。

    • 谢谢: Larry Romanoff
    • 回复: @Cassandra12345
  24. Anne Lid 说:

    我认为吉普赛人来自印度是相当确定的。 我看到的英国吉普赛人/旅行者长相不一样,我认为他们更像是一些当地人的分支,因生活方式而与其他人分开,并在他们之间结婚。 在匈牙利有 3 组吉普赛人,但我无法区分他们。 在匈牙利东部,您不能将自行车留在围栏外,因为任何未固定的东西都会被偷走。 葡萄园里的小棚屋里有一个大瓶子、几个杯子和餐具、田间工具和类似的低价值物品,窗户上必须有铁条,门上必须有围场,因为这些小东西是为了方便主人而留下的被盗。 不是很好的人。 动物慈善机构也有相当可怕的故事。 但我从来不用担心自己的人身安全。
    他们很少能读完中学,缺钱并没有阻止他们很早就成家。
    当然,很多人都不同程度地同化了,我有过通婚的熟人,他们很甜蜜,很诚实。 我去了一些吉普赛同学的房子,房子里面很干净,他们很乐意和我分享食物(即使他们在工作之间并且没有钱)。
    与印度的联系很明显,除了身体特征:女性的头发在中间分开,在希望某人生病时提到 Devla,房子里和女性连衣裙上艳丽的色彩和鲜花,对黄金首饰的热爱。

    几年前,匈牙利俱乐部的一位心爱的罗马尼亚球员在一家夜总会被吉普赛人谋杀,原因是其中一名吉普赛职业罪犯在聚会时很兴奋,并误认为他是某人。 当然,他们试图玷污被谋杀的人而不承担任何责任。
    另一个广为人知的案例是一名教师开车时不小心将一名女孩夹在了路边。 他停下车来看她。 某个老妇人开始大喊“杀了那个匈牙利人,因为他杀了孩子!” 他们立即攻击他,将他打死。 (一般来说,他们喜欢成群结队地攻击。)他的女儿们,孩子们自己,被威胁不要干预。 没有人检查那个从地上爬起来而没有受伤的被夹住的女孩。
    他们再次不想承认任何责任,直到今天仍将私刑称为“误解”。

    现在随着乌克兰危机,一些吉普赛人也作为难民抵达。 我知道一些匈牙利吉普赛人帮助慈善工作,有些人在自己的家中安顿了家人。

    • 回复: @YetAnotherAnon
  25. 苏格兰经济学家和哲学家亚当·斯密三岁时被吉普赛人绑架。 如果不是去救他的当地人的快速反应,我们可能从未有过《国富论》。

    如果你把大多数吉普赛人放在印度或巴基斯坦,他们将与当地人没有区别,尽管许多人,尤其是英国和法国的人,看起来与白人没有区别。

    马扎尔人可能听起来不像欧洲人,但他们绝对看起来像欧洲人。 他们的特征没有任何迹象表明他们是蒙古人或其他亚洲人。 虽然一些蒙古人可能已经在今天的匈牙利地区定居,但我非常怀疑他们是否消灭并取代了居住在那里的当地人。 可能是少数蒙古征服者与居住在该地区的大多数欧洲人混在一起。

    • 同意: Rev. Spooner
    • 回复: @Here Be Dragon
    , @Wielgus
  26. Anon[183]• 免责声明 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    可萨 - 吉普赛人的联系令人着迷。 值得一试。

    我记得在科索沃和梅托希亚有一群吉普赛人是定居农民。 1999 年美国轰炸行动后,UCK 驱逐了他们。

    从 1970 年代到今天,我在南斯拉夫的恐怖中与吉普赛人的经历大多是良性的。 他们是小型垃圾处理商,在农贸市场出售廉价衣服,在最低档次的跳蚤市场出售更便宜的电子产品和中国垃圾。 就像剩下 27 次的东西一样。 有人指出,在 1990 年代摧毁南斯拉夫的战争之后,大多数吉普赛人似乎已被驱逐出斯洛文尼亚和克罗地亚。 南斯拉夫种族更宽容的地区似乎有更多的吉普赛人。

    我在 1990 年代和 2000 年代初期与罗马尼亚吉普赛人开展大量业务的经历也大多是良性的。 不过,我的罗马尼亚商业同事绝对鄙视吉普赛人。

    注意——我的印象是,意大利许多所谓的吉普赛人实际上是阿尔巴尼亚人。

    最后——在我经常出没的巴伐利亚和蒂罗尔,从来没有见过吉普赛人。 也许是通过日耳曼税务机关或痴迷的日耳曼商业登记机关将吉普赛人拒之门外。 人们确实看到很多黎凡特人在火车站附近闲逛,在大城市的低租金区讨价还价,但没有吉普赛人。

    • 回复: @Anon
  27. Anon[183]• 免责声明 说:
    @Anon

    还有一个项目——研究 Bzyantines 如何对待吉普赛人会很有启发性。

    • 回复: @anon
  28. @RoatanBill

    “我不知道美国黑人是吉普赛人。”

    英雄所见略同。 当我在欧洲遇到吉普赛人时,我称他们为“有头脑的黑人”。

    • 哈哈: Catdompanj
  29. Anonymous[176]• 免责声明 说:

    吉普赛人是以色列迷失的部落,他们选择自由生活!!!!

    • 哈哈: Catdompanj
  30. 有趣的是,一方面,土耳其被列为拥有大量吉普赛人; 如果我没记错的话,比任何欧洲国家都要大。

    但另一方面,吉普赛人在土耳其比在罗马尼亚少得多。 当局是否强迫他们离开市中心?

    我在卡帕多西亚问过一个服务员。 吉普赛人在哪里? 他含糊地说了他们以“狩猎和采集”为生。

    猜测一下,土耳其人似乎强迫他们远离。

    • 回复: @Mr. Grey
    , @Wielgus
  31. JR Foley 说:
    @halfhearted

    把它们擦掉。 Einsatzgruppen ABC 与此结盟,在乌克兰,Stepan Bandera 的好朋友对犹太人吉普赛波兰人进行了大屠杀,今天它又回来了——在渥太华。 Chrystia Freeland 是 Stepan Bandera 的出柜庆祝活动,因为她的祖父是纳粹同情者和班德拉的公共报人——另一个链接。

  32. Dumbo 说:

    我认为众所周知,吉普赛人,现在被称为“罗姆人”以将他们与罗马尼亚人或罗马人混淆,基本上是来自印度的达利特侨民。 然而,他们现在可能更加混乱。

  33. Amon 说:

    当然,吉普赛人在几个世纪以来绑架欧洲儿童用作奴隶劳工、乞丐和野营妓女后,看起来会像欧洲人一样。

    毫无疑问,他们从事这种做法是为了消除他们黝黑的皮肤、丑陋的面部构造和参差不齐的头发,以更好地欺骗欧洲人民,让他们将他们视为平等。

  34. Rogue 说:
    @Anonymous

    首先,一个文盲怎么可能成为伪造专家?

    很明显是一个概括。 尽管大多数是,但并非全部都是。

    因此,他们当中有识字的人会伪造。


  35. 在那张照片中,三位年轻的女性吉普赛人看起来明显是印度北部或巴基斯坦人,可能来自拉贾斯坦邦、旁遮普邦或信德邦。 坐着的老妇人没有,而男人看起来又像来自南亚西北部的人。

    那,还有吉普赛妇女的服装,几乎与被称为 lehnga 的北印度裙子相同,暗示了某种印度血统。

    尝试在 Google 搜索中输入“小旁遮普女孩 lehnga”。它会显示看起来像是吉普赛儿童的小孩的图像。

    如果一个人对“印度人”的参考集是南印度德拉威人,例如那些在美国 IT 行业或东印度孟加拉人居住的人,那么,当然,吉普赛人看起来一点也不像。

    • 同意: chris
  36. @Larry Romanoff

    我对东欧吉普赛人的亲身经历非常熟悉,我没有看到任何迹象表明存在像印度教那样的种姓制度。

    如果欧洲吉普赛人确实是来自印度的一个单一种姓社区的后裔,那么人们就不会期望看到吉普赛人之间的种姓分层。

  37. Malla 说:

    关于苏联吉普赛人的有趣视频。

    苏联罗姆人的生活。 克格勃关于苏联吉普赛人的报告#ussr #roma
    乌香卡秀

    1953 年关于乌克兰吉普赛人情况的解密最高机密报告。 苏联政府努力解决罗姆人家庭的问题,并迫使他们成为苏联社会的有用成员。

    你猜怎么了? 甚至苏联人也失败了!!! 似乎吉普赛人在苏联的犯罪率很高。 这在苏联媒体中是保密的,但他们周围的村民知道他们做了什么。 有点像今天的西方共产主义媒体,隐藏罪犯的种族以保持他们的虚假意识形态,就像北非人和法国的黑人罪犯被描述为“青年”一样。

    此外,苏联当局会付钱让吉普赛人离开他们的地区,并为他们提供离开的免费门票。
    因此,共产党管理的马克思主义社会主义制度未能使吉普赛人文明化,或者吉普赛人甚至在共产党管理的马克思主义社会主义制度中也失败了!! 或者两者都失败了。
    妈妈咪呀。 在民主国家中使他们文明化的机会有多大!!!

    • 谢谢: Sarah
  38. Malla 说:

    吉普赛人只是一个部落民族(就像大多数包括犹太人在内的第三世界人一样),有着强烈的“我们对他们”的心态,生活在更个人主义和更普遍的道德心态的欧洲人中。 难怪有这样的错配,吉普赛人发现天真的欧洲人很容易被选中,但也会喊“种族主义”来促进他们的利益。 东欧人已经产生了一些抵抗,但更友善的个人主义西欧人通过文化马克思主义和超级内疚进一步变得愚蠢/天真,仍然是更丰富的选择。

    这是一部很好的纪录片(保加利亚记者 Miroluba Benatova 拍摄),讲述了来自保加利亚的狡猾吉普赛人如何利用好脾气的瑞典人。


    瑞典的吉普赛乞丐团伙 - 第 1 部分

    这些吉普赛人通过“乞讨”和利用善良的瑞典人(白人)赚了很多钱。 一位评论员约翰弗朗西斯科写道
    “我记得在观光之前和姐姐出去吃早餐的一次旅行。 我们看着一群五名妇女开着一辆大奔驰,点了我们吃的同样的早餐,然后在我们开始一天的同一个历史遗址开始乞讨。 当我没有给他们钱就过去了,他们对我很咄咄逼人,开始抓人。 我只是推过去,看到我姐姐通过了。 他们在两桌外的餐厅认不出我们。”
    哈哈。 典型的第三世界基因。

    在第 3 部分中,看看吉普赛人如何欺负一个保加利亚村里的老男人,他称他们为卑鄙小人,在他自己的国家欺负他。 就好像他们在保加利亚的那个地区比本土保加利亚人拥有更多的权力。

    吉普赛人典型的第三世界行为。 你给他们一英寸,他们坐在你的头上并试图接管。 这就是为什么第三世界国家的雇主经常对他们的雇员充当混蛋。 为什么? 因为他们是剥削的混蛋,想要尽可能多地从员工那里榨取很少的报酬,但如果他们不这样做,如果雇主表现得很好,他的员工就会坐在他的头上,把他挤出来吃掉他的事。 这就是第三世界的普遍情况,并且永远都是,这是在 DNA 和灵魂深处。 但愚蠢的怀特试图用西方教育使他文明化,并把数百万人带到他自己的土地上,这样他的国家就变成了第三世界的地狱。
    剥削的第三世界人和天真的怀特斯!!!

    • 同意: Dream
    • 谢谢: Trinity, Jimmy le Blanc, Sarah
  39. Horus 说:

    在英国显然有吉普赛人、罗姆人和旅行者。

    简称 GRT。

    尽管很难说,但应该有某种差异。 吉普赛人和罗姆人往往更黑更黑。 旅行者往往看起来像北欧人。

    他们普遍不受欢迎,众所周知,当他们在某个地方露营时,犯罪率会飙升。 他们拥有大量无法解释的财富,可以在豪华大篷车和房车中看到。

    他们拥有低级的街头狡猾,但在其他方面是愚蠢和功能失调的。 他们似乎在很多事情上都得到了通过,尽管这非常值得怀疑,这取决于他们在高层有朋友,而更多的是因为司法部门的软弱。

    • 谢谢: Sarah
  40. tomo 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    我住在英国和加拿大,在那里我遇到了许多印度人。
    我在塞尔维亚、德国等地看到的吉普赛人看起来都和我认识的印度人一模一样。

  41. 我曾与欧洲人交谈过,他们痛斥我们美国人对待黑人的方式,但当我提到吉普赛人时,他们抗议说:“不,你不明白......他们真的很糟糕,应该得到它。”

    你只需要摇头然后走开。

    • 回复: @Dutch Boy
  42. Anonymous[278]• 免责声明 说:

    任何形式的法西斯主义 [1] 的一个小问题(请务必查看脚注,根据其定义,美国实行经济法西斯主义,即二战中安装的“混合经济”)是政府控制所有所有权。 这种权力总是主导法西斯主义表面上的经济目标。 也就是说,政府不惜一切代价,得到它想要的东西。
    通常的例子是美国政府最近发行了更多美元。 然而,更重要的是,如 Romanoff [2] 所述,法西斯政府可以将例如您的房屋和社区赠送给另一个团体。 “另一组”包括外国人,当然还有 Pres。 拜登和公司现在(2022-04-27)正在大规模这样做。 理由是,放弃你的社区可以最大限度地提高总福利(“公平”论点),而最大限度地提高总福利是法西斯政府的经济目标。

    这就提出了这样的问题:仅此权利和做法是否会使法西斯主义成为非法的政府形式。 常见的引语:“任何大到足以给你你想要的一切的政府,也足以夺走你所拥有的一切。”[3] 暗示了这一点,但从未将“足够大”等同于法西斯主义。

    另外,请记住,在这种情况下,“合法性”[4] 与已婚父母无关。 事实证明,这是受治理公民的一种心态。 如果被统治的公民认为政府是非法的,那么这就足以使政府成为非法的。 即使政府的形式符合韦伯对受监管官僚机构的定义,受治理的公民也可以认为政府是非法的,例如,相信法律/规则要么被忽视,要么受到深奥的解读 [5, 6]。

    所以,问题变成了:今天的法西斯政府合法吗? 向罗姆人提供从非罗姆人取得的商品是否合法? 如果不是,什么是合法的? 如果是这样,政府征收的限额是多少?

    想办法。 如果您是美国公民,联邦政府的论点是公平要求您拥有或将拥有的一切,并且现在正在美国/墨西哥边境执行 [7]。

    1] https://fee.org/articles/economic-fascism/
    2] https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/a-brief-introduction-to-gypsies
    3] https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/government-big-enough-give-you-everything-you-wantspurious-quotation
    4] https://www.britannica.com/topic/legitimacy
    https://study.com/learn/lesson/legitimacy-government-overview-types.html
    5] 深奥阅读:当一小群人(也许是精英)重新定义一个关键词并采取相应行动时,就会发生深奥阅读。 例如:将“民粹主义”重新定义为“选举中的多数规则”,将“民主”重新定义为“美国现任政府”,然后说“民粹主义是对民主的威胁”。
    6] 这也适用于中国: https://crisiswatch.substack.com/p/the-coming-removal-of-the-mandate-7c2?s=r
    7] https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/eric-schmitt-remain-in-mexico-border-crisis/2022/04/26/id/1067379/

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  43. 与罗姆人/吉普赛人/齐加尼人不同,旅行者是来自当地人口的流浪者。 我住在英国剑桥,当我的公司在其中一个科学/商业园区租用办公室时,旅行者会定期(例如,每隔几个月)非法占用其部分停车场数天,直到警方显示在多次威胁后将他们踢了出去。 我注意到他们的孩子整个工作日都在大篷车里,而不是按照这里的规定上学,这与罗姆人的行为非常相似。
    当然,离开后,这些混蛋会在停车场留下大量的垃圾和粪便。 商业园的所有者——剑桥大学的圣约翰学院,是最富有的学院之一——容忍了这种行为。

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  44. chris 说:

    非常有趣的文章,虽然我不确定为什么印度起源的故事需要被忽视。 有趣的是,在小吉普赛女孩的照片中,右边的女人看起来几乎是典型的印度人。

    我“最喜欢的”吉普赛故事是看到一位 30 多岁的妇女在西班牙一座教堂的台阶上护理一个 4-5 岁的孩子。 一个令人难忘的令人反感的景象,尤其是当孩子似乎不想继续这样做时。

    • 回复: @Cool Daddy Jimbo
  45. Anonimko 说:

    好文拉里,但你不是你在写作中触及的某些领域的专家。 确定吉普赛人起源于印度,大约在公元 9 世纪时来到欧洲。 当时(896AC)马扎尔人也来到了欧洲,在今天匈牙利的土著塞尔维亚人中定居。 现代匈牙利人几乎拥有塞尔维亚/斯拉夫的基因。 “斯拉夫语”这个词相当新,最早出现在公元 7 世纪,并在过去的几百年里被广泛使用。 “原始斯拉夫人”的第一个名字是“塞尔维亚人”(意思是“表亲,亲戚,同一种族的成员”)。 这个原始名称由现代塞尔维亚人(以及德国的卢西塔尼亚塞尔维亚人)保留。 吉普赛人不是斯拉夫人。 一些斯拉夫人和所有西欧人都有亚洲血统。 大约一半的塞族人是欧洲土著人的后裔(塞族人可以被认为是欧洲土著人)。 他们的语言已有数千年的历史,是欧洲最古老的语言(比希腊语、拉丁语、希伯来语还要古老),并从这种语言演变出梵语和所有未来的斯拉夫语。 梵语(和 Rg Veda)于公元前 2000 年由雅利安人(即“原始斯拉夫人”)带到印度。 除了塞尔维亚人,第一个新的斯拉夫名字出现在公元 8 世纪(俄罗斯人)和其他人(包括捷克人)很晚。

    • 回复: @Bardon Kaldian
  46. 这篇文章的作者收集了很多有价值的东西,但我必须承认,我对他坚持所谓的神秘吉普赛人起源感到非常惊讶。 这里没有什么神秘之处。

    我一生都见过一些吉普赛人并与之互动,毫无疑问他们是印度裔。 几乎所有这些,除了一些例外,看起来就像你昨天从印度钓到的一样。 从语言上讲,他们是 100% 的印度人。 外观和语言。

    在文化上,它们出现在低水平的神秘主义地区,类似于印度大部分地区的实践(没有印度教文化的高深奥秘,只是民间的盗窃和迷信)。

    另外,我不知道为什么作者认为他们具有很高的心理能力。
    吉普赛人是害虫。 从西班牙到俄罗斯,他们的行为都是一样的。的确,他们中的一些人成功地摆脱了这种寄生文化并成为正常的、有功能的人(我知道一位罗马医生、内科医生——一个正派而聪明的人)。 但他们中的大多数是小偷、窃贼或乞丐。 他们在精神上和情感上不成熟。 我的一个熟人目睹了他们两人之间的交流。 似乎最终会打架。 然而,什么都没有。

    它是:

    A:你在跟我说话?
    B:是的,但是你-对我吗?
    A:我在跟你说话!
    乐队…?
    A:是的,我在跟你说话,但是你在跟我说话吗?
    B:我吗?
    A:是的,你。 现在我正在和你说话!
    B:但是我在和你说话!
    A:你在说话吗? 对我来说?
    B:是的,我是。
    A:但是我也在和你说话。
    .............................
    它持续了大约。 10 分钟,他们就走了。 没有更多信息,只是:说话,我,你..
    迟钝这个词太慷慨了。

    除其他外,我责怪欧洲的高素质白痴(维克多·雨果、普希金、李斯特、乔治·比才、普罗斯珀·梅里梅、加西亚·洛尔卡、加西亚·马尔克斯——)他们把这个垃圾浪漫化了。他们总是成群结队地生活和行动——我从来没有看到一个吉普赛人走路; 他们是小偷,由于自由的法律政策,他们中只有一部分人最终入狱(他们主要从工厂偷垃圾和其他东西); 一位捷克女作家收养了两个罗姆男孩(她暂时不育,但后来生了一个儿子)。 她写了一本绝望的回忆录,因为那些罗马孩子——她对待他们甚至比她自己的儿子还要好——转向偷窃、撒谎、酗酒和暴力,而她的儿子变成了一个正常的男孩。

    现在,这些被收养的人都在监狱里。关于先天/后天的辩论太多了。 野性的呼唤。

    • 谢谢: mark green, Sarah, Liza
    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @chris
  47. pbridge 说:

    拿起一本 1933 年的书,Raggle-Taggle,作者 Walter Starkie,一个对小提琴有迷信的都柏林堂主。
    他在匈牙利和罗马尼亚的吉普赛人之间的冒险故事。
    一个有趣且可读的帐户。
    在澳大利亚,很少有新闻,pre PC 总是负面的,警告那些不小心被“gyped”的人。

  48. Sempronius 说:

    几部非常引人入胜的纪录片,讲述了 C20 晚期在共产主义保加利亚对罗马人进行社会工程的失败尝试。 他们讲述了当共产党决定安置两万流动的“吉普赛人”时发生的事情,为他们建造了一个住宅区(沿着那不勒斯的 Le Vele di Scampia 线)。 剧透警报:他们破坏了它:

    引人入胜的文章,非常感谢。

  49. Joe Paluka 说:

    我看过的大多数关于吉普赛人的照片,加上我个人看过的照片,都有明显的西北印度风格。 几年前我遇到的一个吉普赛人看起来像个南美毒贩。 现代遗传学研究应该能够很快解决它们的起源。 他们的许多负面文化特征与印度有相似之处,即不诚实、爱钱、鲜艳的色彩、俗气的珠宝,以及完全不尊重他们的人类同胞。 我的赌注是他们的印度血统。

    • 谢谢: Sarah
    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  50. @Anonimko

    另一个来自 Milojević-Lazić-Deretić 的白痴“学校”的白痴评论。

    是什么让塞尔维亚人如此疯狂和极度非理性?

    我不知道,我高中的时候有过一些……但那些人的核心是疯子。

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-a-sense-of-historical-victimhood-is-good-among-blacks-but-bad-among-serbs/#comment-5264276

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/putin-demands-equity/#comment-5196900

    • 回复: @Anonimko
  51. Anonimko 说:

    在 1996 年改编的《钟楼怪人》中,角色 Esmeralda 是一个美丽的吉普赛女孩。 其他一些电影——法语:Cartouche(1962,与 Jean Paul Belmondo 和 Claudia Cardinale)和 Le Gitan(1975,与 Alain Delon 和 Annie Girardot)和塞尔维亚电影——吉普赛人的时代(1998,Emir Kusturica)和一部电影愚蠢的标题翻译——我什至遇到了快乐的吉普赛人(1968 年),它赢得了堪萨斯州的金棕榈奖。

    下面是经证实的吉普赛人抵达欧洲的地图。

    对于电影爱好者,最后提到的电影中有一段短片(4.5 分钟),其中有一首著名的吉普赛歌曲——Djelem,由 Olivera Katarina 演唱的 djelem(这里,只有印度长相的女孩是真正的吉普赛人,其他人是非吉普赛演员)。

    • 回复: @anonymouseperson
    , @JimDandy
  52. Malla 说:

    在印度,他们被称为班加拉人,是一种低种姓的流浪民族。 大多数普通印度人会远离,因为他们穿的衣服有镜子,因此不经常洗衣服,因此被其他印度人认为又臭又脏。 在我的童年时代,我认为他们是一个有趣但非常陌生的人。 小时候和朋友打板球时,我们经常会看到他们的车队。 我们这些孩子,说实话,对他们的了解还真的不多,只是好奇的盯着这些骑着骆驼的神秘人。

    有一首流行的 Gypsy/Banjara 印度歌曲展示了印度 Gypsy/Banjara 营地。

    欧洲吉普赛人有类似的音乐吗?
    更有趣的一点是,中东和埃及的吉普赛人经常从事卖淫活动,而欧洲的吉普赛人则不然。

    • 谢谢: Pheasant
    • 回复: @Anne Lid
    , @Mactoul
  53. bwuce wee 说:

    “吉普赛人不会同化”。 同化是维持文明的主要因素。 让它沉入其中。如果一个文化群体无法同化,他们将与宿主文化保持寄生虫或掠夺性关系。 让它沉沦吧。这就是为什么犹太人被驱逐出数百个城市和国家并遭到辱骂的原因:他们拒绝放弃他们的文化(这在他们的游牧移民中为他们提供了很好的服务——就像我们历史上所有的移民民族一样——美洲印第安人、蒙古人, ETC,)。 不列颠群岛的修补匠和旅行者是游牧/移民,但这并不意味着他们与欧洲的吉普赛人具有相同的种族血统。 无法同化在任何社区都会产生问题:美国的警察部队最初是在纽约市设立的,因为爱尔兰人(天主教徒)无法与盛行的新教文化同化。 犯罪随之而来,纽约警察局成立。 爱尔兰人被禁止的方式与吉普赛人和犹太人在欧洲的方式相同。 进入意大利人-同样的交易:他们没有同化,“黑手党”是公敌第一大盗窃团伙,赌博,卖淫,勒索,勒索,谋杀-我可以继续,但你明白了。 如果一种文化无法融合或同化,那么就会发生冲突,这将不可避免地变成暴力。 现在我们有了多元文化的机构! 这将确保犯罪率很高! 这解释了美国城市黑人的现状:他们已经建立并继续发展一种独立的城市文化,这种文化不会也永远不会被同化,从而确保了一场持续不断的文化战争。 犹太文化赞成多元文化主义,因为这给了他们维持独立文化的借口。 政客们以此为食——它是一种能源。 那有多恶心?

    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Alden
    , @bwuce wee
  54. EdwardM 说:

    似乎某些吉普赛人已经完善了暗示自己进入官场渠道的技巧,以便或多或少地保证免于起诉。

    这似乎不协调,至少在罗马尼亚以外。 真的是这样吗? 还是像现在美国的黑人一样,自由主义建制派认为吉普赛人受到压迫等等,因此因此给予他们豁免权? 再加上可能的实际困难——犯罪分子没有身份,没有家庭住址,没有人会出卖他,等等。

    • 同意: Sarah
  55. 我的祖母和她母亲的身边显然是吉普赛人。 根据我的经验,我可以说我的祖母隐藏了这一点并为此感到羞耻。 她的母亲嫁给了一个爱尔兰人,他们非常努力地将孩子们融入爱尔兰天主教的身份,以至于我什至不知道她是吉普赛人,直到我 30 多岁。

    我的祖母——吉普赛人——对她的血统提出了各种各样的要求:意大利人、印度人、爱尔兰人、切诺基人。 他们有别名,这些姓氏的来源总是很模糊。 我妈妈说我祖母对所有事情都撒了谎,这可能是真的。

    我知道她的母亲(我的曾祖母)一生都是算命的。 我的祖母在桌子上放了一个水晶球。 无论如何,我祖母的爱尔兰父亲(可能是爱尔兰旅行者)在谋杀指控后移民到美国。 他拥有一个成功的狂欢节(包括一场畸形秀),当她年轻的时候,他们乘坐马车从一个城镇到另一个城镇旅行。 狂欢节吸引了各种各样的神经病,包括我的祖父,他是个不识字的英语血统。 我的祖母很黑,在她十几岁的时候会跳舞和打鼓,而且她也是一个扑克鲨鱼。 我的祖父母以各种挫折为生; 走私、赌博、专柜、古董、二手车、垃圾交易、手表和珠宝维修以及后来的房地产。

    所以她是个吉普赛人,我的祖父是个骗子,但我想强调的是,我的祖父母尽一切可能隐藏它,同化并“直截了当”,正如他们所说的那样。 我小时候不知道他们是罪犯。 我妈妈说他们也试图对她隐瞒。 他们付钱让他们所有的孩子上私立天主教学校,实际上我和我的堂兄也这样做了,我妈妈嫁给了一个爱尔兰天主教家庭,并继续完全直率、专业和成功。

    所以我想建议的是,吉普赛人难以确定为种族、种族甚至语言群体的原因之一可能是因为他们的行为更像是一个阶级而不是一个国家(例如,他们接受了我的英国祖父和各种怪胎进入狂欢节),因此可能是一个组织松散的流氓无产阶级或黑手党,具有区域部落特征,而不是相反。 所以——至少从我的角度来看——这可能是鸡或蛋的情况。

    有趣的文章。 谢谢。

    • 谢谢: Pheasant, Calvin Hobbes, chris
    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Pheasant
  56. Joe Paluka 说:
    @JR Foley

    你的克里斯蒂亚弗里兰回答克劳斯施瓦布,他像逾越节一样犹太人。 他们的祖先可能出于必要或生存而与德国的国家社会主义者打交道,但并不认同他们的精神。 德国的国家社会主义者绝对是支持白人的,最重要的是支持德国,世界经济论坛的崇拜就是要消灭白人。

  57. @Humbert Humbert

    由于历史原因,英国关于占位的法律极为宽松;
    在大陆并非如此,他们只是没有被强制执行(“种族卡”)。

  58. Trinity 说:

    雪儿有吉普赛人的血统吗?

    提示:吉普赛人,流浪汉和小偷雪儿

    • 回复: @Cool Daddy Jimbo
    , @S
  59. Malla 说:
    @Joe Paluka

    我再告诉你一个原因,为什么我认为它们是南亚血统。 我正在观看一段关于来自印度旁遮普/哈里亚纳邦(一般是印度西北部)的非法移民的视频,这些移民在西部发展壮大,然后寄钱回家,并在他们的村庄建造大型平房式房屋。 还有一个来自罗马尼亚的吉普赛村庄在西欧赚了很多钱,他们的大老板在罗马尼亚的吉普赛村庄建造了大豪宅。 有趣的是这两种情况下的俗气设计和房屋设计的巨大相似之处。 富有的吉普赛人和富有的西北印第安人,从西方赚来的钱,建造非常相似的房子。 DNA 很重要,即使在千年之后!!!!

    • 同意: Bardon Kaldian
  60. @chris

    公平地说,这可能更像是一个疯狂的白人女士。

    • 哈哈: chris
  61. Trinity 说:

    吉普赛人与犹太人/可萨人的共同点比美国的非洲人多。 可萨人/犹太人只不过是被美化的吉普赛人。

    • 同意: Pheasant
  62. Pheasant 说:
    @Lurker

    爱尔兰旅行者吉普赛人的生活方式非常相似,但基因上却完全不同。 他们是无地爱尔兰农民的后裔。

    • 同意: Carroll price, Irish Savant
  63. @Trinity

    典型的吉普赛纪录片:

    • 谢谢: Trinity
    • 哈哈: Skeptikal
    • 回复: @GenFranco
  64. Malla 说:
    @ComradePuff

    所以我想建议的是,也许吉普赛人很难被确定为一个民族、种族甚至语言群体的原因之一,

    我怀疑,(与爱尔兰旅行者不同),吉普赛人最初是来自印度次大陆西北部的南亚 Banjaras/Doms,由于一些灾难性事件(可能是对印度的残酷伊斯兰袭击),他们进一步迁移到西北病房,并且随着时间的推移一路走来中东和后来的欧洲基因。 移民的时机恰逢伊斯兰入侵印度。 当地儿童被绑架,把我们当作吉普赛人,他们允许一些当地的犯罪分子加入他们的行列,早些时候在中东(伊朗人、土耳其人、阿拉伯人),后来在欧洲。

  65. Passing By 说:

    吉普赛人是停留在史前时期的可萨人。

  66. Malla 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    除其他外,我责怪欧洲的高素质白痴

    LOL 精英欧洲人有一个古老的坏习惯,将非欧洲人(吉普赛人、犹太人、撒拉逊人、印度人等)浪漫化和理想化,而欧洲人只会得到仇恨和嫉妒。
    一个例子是沃尔特·斯科特爵士的小说《艾芬豪》中约克的艾萨克的女儿犹太丽贝卡的浪漫化角色。 欧洲基督徒将萨拉丁浪漫化,但中东穆斯林从未将狮心王理查德浪漫化! 人们不知道这一点,但许多在印度的英国人都是印度人,身穿红大衣的东印度公司官员与婆罗门坐在一起,婆罗门愚弄他们,英国人写下了印度高度放屁的历史。 詹姆斯·米尔在他关于印度的书中谈到了这一现象。 卢梭的诺贝尔野蛮热潮就是一个很好的例子。 但是在欧洲对非白人的浪漫化之后,非白人和左撇子尖叫着说欧洲人是至上主义者!!! 哈哈。

    • 同意: Dream, Sarah
    • 谢谢: Alden
  67. Pheasant 说:
    @ComradePuff

    “我的祖母和她母亲的身边显然是吉普赛人。 根据我的经验,我可以说我的祖母隐藏了这一点并为此感到羞耻。 她的母亲嫁给了一个爱尔兰人,他们非常努力地将孩子们融入爱尔兰天主教的身份,以至于我什至不知道她是吉普赛人,直到我 30 多岁。

    我的祖母——吉普赛人——对她的血统提出了各种各样的要求:意大利人、印度人、爱尔兰人、切诺基人。 他们有别名,这些姓氏的来源总是很模糊。 我妈妈说我祖母对所有事情都撒了谎,这可能是真的。

    我知道她的母亲(我的曾祖母)一生都是算命的。 我的祖母在桌子上放了一个水晶球。 无论如何,我祖母的爱尔兰父亲(可能是爱尔兰旅行者)在谋杀指控后移民到美国。 他拥有一个成功的狂欢节(包括一场畸形秀),当她年轻的时候,他们乘坐马车从一个城镇到另一个城镇旅行。 狂欢节吸引了各种各样的神经病,包括我的祖父,他是个不识字的英语血统。 我的祖母很黑,在她十几岁的时候会跳舞和打鼓,而且她也是一个扑克鲨鱼。 我的祖父母以各种挫折为生; 走私、赌博、专柜、古董、二手车、垃圾交易、手表和珠宝维修以及后来的房地产。

    所以她是个吉普赛人,我的祖父是个骗子,但我想强调的是,我的祖父母尽一切可能隐藏它,同化并“直截了当”,正如他们所说的那样。 我小时候不知道他们是罪犯。 我妈妈说他们也试图对她隐瞒。 他们付钱让他们所有的孩子上私立天主教学校,实际上我和我的堂兄也这样做了,我妈妈嫁给了一个爱尔兰天主教家庭,并继续完全直率、专业和成功。

    所以我想建议的是,吉普赛人难以确定为种族、种族甚至语言群体的原因之一可能是因为他们的行为更像是一个阶级而不是一个国家(例如,他们接受了我的英国祖父和各种怪胎进入狂欢节),因此可能是一个组织松散的流氓无产阶级或黑手党,具有区域部落特征,而不是相反。 所以——至少从我的角度来看——这可能是鸡或蛋的情况。

    有趣的文章。 谢谢。

    指挥官。

    极好的。 谢谢你。

  68. Anon[426]• 免责声明 说:

    我最喜欢的吉普赛故事来自罗马。 当我出国旅行时,我的钱和护照都放在钱腰带里,在我的短裤和 T 恤下面,还有另一件衬衫塞进去。我前面的口袋里有一个诱饵钱包,里面装着垃圾,一些五分钱和一角硬币我可以在里面扔另一个裤子口袋是我一天需要的钱的 1/2。 那个口袋有一个拉链和魔术贴。 我的两个衬衫口袋里有我一天所需钱的 1/4。

    祝你好运试图扯掉我。

    无论如何,故事。 这个黑黝黝的家伙出现了,上面写着他是“聋哑人”。 我拿出 10 欧元,告诉他我只能省 5 美元,他会给我找零。

    他说“是”!

    • 哈哈: Malla
  69. @Joe Paluka

    事已成定局,事已成定局。

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015201

    欧洲罗姆人的起源、混合和创始人血统

    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/13/3/532/htm

    罗姆人是巴基斯坦旁遮普地区的后裔吗:从 Y 染色体的角度看

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31389/

    罗姆人(吉普赛人)的遗传研究:综述

  70. Malla 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    那是:A:你在跟我说话?
    B:是的,但是你-对我吗?
    ...... ..
    B:是的,我是。
    A:但是我也在和你说话。

    大声笑,这正是南亚人在街上打架的方式。 很多口头威胁、争吵、多毛的大男子主义姿势和胸部捶打,如果有的话。
    War Nerd/Gary Brecher 在他关于印度与巴基斯坦的文章中很好地介绍了这种对抗方式
    http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-fag-vs-fag-the-india-pakistan-phoney-war/
    战争书呆子:FAG VS。 FAG:印巴电话战争
    “我以前住在圣安娜,住在满屋子的巴基斯坦人旁边。 他们都是兄弟或堂兄弟之类的,经营着这家海盗出租车公司,而且 他们不停地战斗——但我从来没有看到过一拳。 这是一种奇怪的巴基斯坦式战斗方式:他们会大喊几个小时,然后升级为掌掴 ——奇怪的向下拍打,就像大象用他们的鼻子互相撞击一样。 几分钟后,他们每个人都会后退约五码,四处寻找要扔的汽车零件。 他们会一直扔,直到他们累了,或者直到他们不小心撞到停在院子里的一辆半固定的出租车。 那是唯一让他们清醒的事情:伤害了汽车。 当他们在彼此身上流血时,他们会欢呼,但如果他们打破挡风玻璃,他们会立即停止战斗并跑到车前,呻吟着抽泣。

    那些出租车司机打架的方式就是印度和巴基斯坦打架的方式——也许这就是那里的水。 它总是低强度、低风险的小冲突,就像网络不断从克什米尔报道的这些“迫击炮决斗”。 迫击炮决斗是懦夫的完美战斗,因为迫击炮是一种弹道很高的武器,所以你可以在山上开火,甚至看不到敌人的面对面。”
    难怪南亚人倾向于在严肃的欧洲或东亚军队面前搞砸,或者在欧洲军官领导下表现最好。 在殖民时期,由英国人、法国人或其他欧洲指挥官率领的东印度公司军队,主要由印度士兵组成,但也混有一定比例的欧洲士兵,他们经常击败规模是其 10 倍的本土印度军队。 印度教或伊斯兰教的本土军队都有骑兵,大象,大炮等。由英国军官指挥的印度士兵在二战中对日本人表现出色,日本人在二战中对中国人大喊大叫,但印度军官手下的印度士兵后来被中国人大喊大叫在 2 年代。

  71. Ole_ed 说:

    “不诚实,贪财,鲜艳的色彩,俗气的珠宝,完全不尊重他们的人类同胞。”

    对我们南方男孩来说,这些特征让人想起另一个群体。

  72. Malla 说:
    @bwuce wee

    同化是维持文明的主要因素。

    更正:同化具有正确特征和基因的正确类型的人是文明进一步发展的主要因素。 与大量错误的人类同化,从长远来看可能会拖累你的文明。

    • 同意: anonymouseperson
    • 回复: @bwuce wee
    , @bwuce wee
  73. Anon[176]• 免责声明 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    我在印度生活了 2.5 年 c。 1970 年和 1977 年夏天访问。我在孟买和加尔各答的热门旅游区外看到残缺不全的幼儿和幼儿。 他们的腿或手臂经常被切断。 他们被安置在一个带轮子的小平推车上。 一个杯子或碗放在他们的胸前,供人们放置捐款。 一个健康的人悄悄地站在一旁,密切关注着捐款。 一次只有一个孩子被展示在战略位置。 当地印第安人告诉我,有乞丐国王拥有并控制着这些不幸的孩子。 不过,没有人称他们为吉普赛人。

    • 回复: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Skeptikal
  74. Dimitrie 说:

    吉普赛人:
    – 都有印度血统
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)
    也在寻找: 新发现的创始人群体:罗姆人/吉普赛人
    - 在原始的印度核心,几个世纪的流浪和混合增加了不同的其他人口; 许多当地的流浪者(白人)甚至上层阶级(波亚尔人)都有吉普赛人的妃子生孩子。 相反,有一些与吉普赛人一起跑步的白人(垃圾)妇女。 直到最近,所有半石膏的孩子都留在吉普赛部落。 此外,任何特定社会的被拒绝者都倾向于融入吉普赛环境。
    – 尽管在东欧吉普赛人看起来很印度。 那些看起来很欧洲的人只是因为有更多的欧洲祖先(见上文)。
    – 所有流浪阶层(不分种族)都倾向于具有相同的行为:不纯洁的职业、轻微犯罪、肮脏的工作、为今天而活等等。这就是为什么爱尔兰旅行者(他们与吉普赛人没有任何种族共同点)的原因) 可能看起来很相似。

    有趣的是,所有像印度教这样的欧洲社会都需要一个贱民阶层。

  75. 为什么对吉普赛人没有正面评价? 他们为音乐做出了宝贵的贡献。 有史以来最伟大的爵士吉他手 Django Reinhardt 是一名吉普赛人。 吉普赛国王是伟大的音乐家和表演者。 吉普赛人在音乐和娱乐行业的各个层面都很突出,从最负盛名的节日到当地的节日。

    显然以下是/是吉普赛人/罗姆人/罗姆人血统

    迈克尔凯恩 (1933)
    查理卓别林 (1889-1977)
    尤伯连纳 (1920-1985)
    埃尔维斯·普里斯利 (1935-1977)
    鲍勃·霍斯金斯 (1942-2014)
    巴勃罗·毕加索(1881-1973)
    丽塔·海华丝 (1918-1987)

    http://mladiromi.me/eng/zanimljivosti/147-famous-celebrities-of-romani-origin

    多一点

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_people

    • 同意: Sollipsist
    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Sollipsist
    , @Wielgus
  76. 哥伦比亚大学校友伊莎贝拉·丰塞卡(Isabella Fonseca)很可能是一名犹太人,她写了一本关于吉普赛人的富有同情心的书,名为《Bury Me Standing》。

    我个人对吉普赛人的看法是(很多年前我确实有邻居叫约翰逊……那个男人看起来像波多黎各人,妻子看起来像瑞典人,他们的三个孩子有一头金发和蓝眼睛,他们都说罗姆语)他们可能起源于印度次大陆的信德人、旁遮普人或克什米尔人,但几个世纪以来,他们的血统以及语言与欧洲人混合得如此之多,以至于他们自成一个群体,因此既不是印度人也不是白人,但肯定白种人。

    最后,偷鸡、马和汽车与从愚蠢的纳税人那里偷走数十亿,不,数万亿是不一样的,他们坚持谴责游牧民族,同时容忍真正的骗子。 人得到应得的!

  77. Ray Caruso 说:

    作者似乎忽略了罗姆语和印度语言之间的语言联系,但没有严重的争议,罗姆语与印地语和其他印度-雅利安语言有关,因为词汇和语法的相似性是多方面的和普遍的。 这一点,再加上吉普赛人黝黑的外表,无疑表明其起源于印度,尽管注入了外部血液,很可能来自偷窃儿童。

    • 同意: Bardon Kaldian
  78. 我的祖父告诉我一个故事,讲述了 19 至 20 世纪之交吉普赛人如何在农场的山上安营扎寨。 如果谷仓的任何门或大门在夜间打开,我的曾祖父必须设置一些铃铛。 Grandpop 也常说吉普赛人来自匈牙利。 不知道他是如何产生这个想法的,除非我们在第一次世界大战之前确实有大量匈牙利人涌入当地城镇。 巴斯克人也有一种非欧洲语言。 我读过巴斯克人的口头历史,声称他们的根源来自亚特兰蒂斯。 如果匈牙利人和吉普赛人都来自古代不知名的民族,那就相当有趣和酷了。

    至于吉普赛人如何通过他们的行为获得通行证,似乎我们有一个古老的精英问题。 似乎精神病患者和反社会人士在欧洲体系中名列前茅。 蠕变需要促进者。 吉普赛人会符合这个要求。

    • 回复: @Carlo
    , @Anon
    , @Lazoudimazmuzoog
  79. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    即使在中东。 中东人肚皮舞起源于吉普赛人。 第一批肚皮舞者是一群被称为 ghawazee 的旅行舞者。 这些妇女是 18 世纪埃及的 Domaris(印度 Dom 血统)吉普赛人,在 1830 年代被驱逐出开罗,但后来在上埃及以及后来的中东和欧洲演出。

    1834 年,由于舞蹈低劣,加瓦兹人被穆罕默德·阿里从开罗驱逐到上埃及。 从 19 世纪上半叶开始,对 ghawazi 舞者的描述和描绘在欧洲东方主义中广为人知,这种风格从 1860 年代被描述为 danse de ventre 或肚皮舞。

    第一个 Ghawazis 表演在街头亮相。 快速的臀部运动和黄铜手指钹/手响板的使用是他们舞蹈的特点。 他们部落的音乐家通常陪伴他们跳舞。 Ghawazi 会在后宫的某些庆祝活动中,在房子的院子里,或在街上,在门前表演。 他们从来没有被允许进入一个体面的后宫,但经常被雇用来招待一些贱民家里的一群男人。 女人和男人都喜欢他们的娱乐。 然而,许多更信教或更高阶层的人不赞成他们。

    许多人喜欢Ghawazi的舞蹈,但认为这是不合适的,因为它是由不应该以这种方式暴露自己的女性跳舞的。 正因为如此,有少数年轻的男性表演者叫卡瓦尔斯。 Khawals 是埃及男性传统舞者,他们模仿 Ghawazi 的女性及其舞蹈。 众所周知,她们模仿女性的方方面面,包括她们的舞蹈和响板的使用。

    别忘了吉普赛国王

  80. @Anon

    《贫民窟的百万富翁》也有类似的场景

  81. 吉普赛人和童贞有一些东西……

    • 谢谢: Sarah
    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  82. Carlo 说:
    @Old and Grumpy

    巴斯克语是一种孤立的语言,与其他已知语言无关。 在罗马征服将拉丁语强加于大部分地区之前,在伊比利亚半岛可能有一个语言家族。
    匈牙利语和罗姆语不是孤立的语言,有已知的亲戚,他们的语言历史是众所周知的。 第一个属于乌拉尔家族,与芬兰和爱沙尼亚有关。 第二个属于印欧语系,印伊语系。

  83. Malla 说:

    伊朗人将被称为“kolis”的吉普赛人视为可怜的算命先生。 大多数伊朗吉普赛人住在德黑兰南部的贫民窟中狭窄曲折的小巷里。 每天早上,他们都会前往德黑兰北部的富裕地区,在那里他们清洗汽车挡风玻璃,出售各种垃圾和古怪物品:口香糖、鲜花、幸运诗和尼龙袜,或者只是乞讨。
    在伊朗,他们没有被包括在任何官方统计数据中,仅仅是因为他们没有永久居住地。 他们被拒绝接受教育,因为他们没有身份证。 他们死于非常简单的疾病,因为他们被剥夺了医疗保健设施,因此死在单间破旧的房子里——如果他们可以被称为房子的话。 他们中的大多数人有机会只学习一项技能,那就是如何向人们乞讨钱、食物……尽管现在他们的老把戏不再赢得普通伊朗人的同情。 传统上,科利斯人(伊朗吉普赛人)用来制作金属或木制工具,如农民或游牧民族使用的镰刀、筛子、剪刀、三脚架等,有时还制作像达夫这样的音乐工具。 他们过去常常四处走动,敲门并出售他们的东西。 然而,这些天他们的产品几乎没有客户,他们也没有尝试制造新工具。 他们也没有试图改变他们的生活方式和工作。 他们不经常与社区以外的人结婚。 他们通常有很多孩子,不送他们上学。 他们不是传统的农民或土地所有者,但他们也没有试图购买农地来开始耕种。 他们中的一些人可能住在帐篷里。 他们甚至不尝试当劳动力,好像他们很懒惰一样。

    德黑兰地铁中的伊朗吉普赛人/科利斯人坐在地板上。
    他们倾向于穿着民族服装,这使得他们很容易与穿着普通现代服装的普通德黑兰人区分开来。

  84. Mefobills 说:
    @Anonymous

    任何形式的法西斯主义 [1] 的一个小问题(请务必查看脚注,根据其定义,美国实行经济法西斯主义,即二战中安装的“混合经济”)是政府控制所有所有权。

    美国实行的是法西斯主义,而不是法西斯主义。 公司和隐藏的债权人精英牵线。 政客们只不过是为他们的捐助阶层服务的傀儡。

    二战中没有安装混合经济。 殖民时期发明了工业资本主义,这是一种混合经济形式,国家向公地和工业发放国家信用。 革命战争和“汉密尔顿的”美国经济体系是“混合的”。 汉密尔顿关于制造商的报告指出,第一家银行有多少“美国信贷”流入工业和农业部门。

    这是墨索里尼谈法西斯主义,他将其定义为 公会 系统:

    https://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

    但是,当法西斯主义被带入国家的轨道时,它承认产生社会主义和工会主义的真正需要,在行会或公司制度中给予它们应有的重视,在这种制度中,不同的利益在国家统一中得到协调和协调。

    显然,罗马不会合作和劳作 公会 结构,因此无法整合。 他们也不会形成一种农业文化,这与沙皇对犹太人的抱怨相同,正如索尔仁尼琴在他的著作 200 years together 中所描述的那样。

    换句话说,犹太人和吉普赛人都不想做诚实的劳工,而是想充当寄生虫。 在这两种寄生虫中,犹太人比罗姆人差得多。

    犹太人在货币领域运作,收取高利贷、租金和不劳而获的收入。 由于金钱是一个国家的血液,犹太人成为国家破坏者。 吉普赛人只是一个痛苦的屁股,而不是致命的威胁。

    一种寄生虫只从宿主身上吸收一点能量,另一种则攻击神经和生殖系统,将一个国家的人民带下悬崖。

    • 不同意: Sarah
    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @bwuce wee
  85. 解决方案很简单。 当罗姆人因为“他们饿了”而乞讨时,给他们带老鼠药的纸杯蛋糕。 我怀疑他们是否保留了谁向他们“捐赠”了什么的书面记录,因此无法追踪。 最终,在受到一定程度的附带损害后,他们都会返回罗马尼亚,在那里应该用绳子围起来,让他们留在里面。

    • 回复: @j1
  86. 拳击界的重量级拳王泰森·弗瑞是一个吉普赛人,一个旅行者,一个白人基督徒当权者。 惊人的!

  87. 犹太人被描述为有头脑的吉普赛人!

  88. Dutch Boy 说:
    @Anonymous

    不管他们最终的起源是什么,他们已经在欧洲生活了数百年,并且在那段时间里毫无疑问地获得了相当数量的欧洲 DNA(记住所有关于吉普赛人绑架儿童的故事)。 几年前,希腊有一个故事,希腊警方逮捕了一些吉普赛人,他们涉嫌绑架在他们公司中发现的几个金发儿童。 事实证明,这些孩子确实是他们自己的亲生孩子(金发在印度极为罕见)。 同样,吉普赛人也在他们的词汇中加入了许多来自欧洲语言的非罗马语单词。

  89. 吉普赛人显然不是欧洲人,如果某个随机的吉普人比一般人更苍白,那么他的母亲很可能是一名妓女。 一个诡计宝贝,仅此而已

    那么当然

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/italians-search-for-irish-woman-s-baby-1.1139554

    有趣的是,犹太人和吉普人都声称自己在埃及有根,而且在这两种情况下,这似乎都是纯属胡说八道

    白人是世界上最大的吸盘

    • 同意: Trinity
  90. bwuce wee 说:
    @Malla

    您发表评论,而不是更正。 重要的区别。 我的陈述涉及将不同文化同化到现有的功能性社会中。 “坏习惯和坏基因”的问题——这是“先天与后天”之间的争论,与个人有意识地选择融入他/她所采用的文化的问题无关。 我的观察认为,多元文化主义只能摧毁一个社区,而不是像它在政治上所呈现的那样加强它。 我可能会指出你以前的评论来自一个帖子,他的目标是他的家人确实成功地同化了,然后她才发现她的祖先是骗子。 她的故事证明了我的观点并反驳了你关于坏基因的评论(再次,不是更正)。 每个人的 DNA 中有数十亿个基因,大多处于休眠状态,这意味着每个人的 os 都可能有一些相同的坏基因。 这就是自由意志,我们选择文明或不文明。 它总是一个选择,而且总是有一个选择。 正如你所说,没有“魔鬼让我这么做”或“我别无选择,我不得不掏他们的口袋”。

    • 回复: @Malla
  91. AndrewR 说:
    @Biff

    这比自己做残害要好。 绝对不人道的行为。

  92. bwuce wee 说:
    @Malla

    而且-我没有说“文明的发展”。 我说'文明的维护'。 巨大差距。 你不能试图通过把你的话放在别人嘴里然后回答自己来赢得辩论。

  93. aandrews 说:
    @Rahan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martine_Beswick#Film_career

    “我是一个非常好的女孩,但 Aliza 是一头母牛。 我们发生了可怕的冲突,我对她感到厌恶。 我内心有很多愤怒,所以[战斗]场景是解决问题的完美方式。 我们排练了三个星期的战斗,但当我们拍摄它时,Aliza 真的在战斗。 每个人都鼓励我反击,所以我做到了。 我们进入了一场真正的报废比赛。” — 马丁·贝斯维克[8]

    • 谢谢: Pop Warner
    • 回复: @Rahan
  94. Dutch Boy 说:
    @Swaytonious

    我已故的姑姑曾经受到我们一位荷兰亲戚关于美国种族主义的批评。 她发现他已经搬离了他的公寓,因为隔壁的一些苏里南人已经搬走了。 当她就此质问他时,他抗议说他被迫搬家是因为苏里南人在公寓里养鸡。

  95. 3g4me 说:

    对于罗曼诺夫先生的所有旅行和专业资格,我不能同意他关于吉普赛人遗传起源的大部分结论。 一些吉普赛人拥有更多的欧洲肤色和面相这一事实仅反映了几个世纪以来有限的杂交(与肤色更公平的犹太人相同)。 这种杂交是否是由于绑架欧洲儿童、强奸、相互同意等原因,尚有待商榷。 据我所知,吉普赛人的遗传根源已经通过 DNA 研究确定,这与我的个人经历有关。

    我第一次接触大量巴基斯坦人和印度人是在英国——虽然那是几十年前的事了,但他们已经占领了整个城镇。 他们的外表与当地的英国人截然不同。 人们似乎总是想通过提出爱尔兰旅行者来搅浑水,他们可能像吉普赛人一样流动和犯罪,但似乎与他们没有遗传联系。

    我不记得在苏联见过吉普赛人。 甚至没有印度人——有几个非洲学生,但其他种族的总体存在很少。 牙买加有印第安人——他们看起来很像我在英格兰遇到的那些人——肤色、面相、言语情感和行为(不那么诚实和永远争论不休)。 到目前为止,我从未遇到过任何明确认定或被称为“吉普赛人”的人。

    在保加利亚的这些年里,我看到并与大量吉普赛人打交道。 这些人与当地人明显不同。 本地保加利亚人可能是更公平的斯拉夫人或更黑(可能是由于几个世纪的占领导致土耳其混合),但他们显然仍然是欧洲人(西方和东方的混合体)。 吉普赛人在种族外貌和衣着上非常让人想起英格兰次大陆,尽管仍然存在难以量化的明显差异——也许更东方化? 只是面部特征略有不同,但有明显的种族联系。 然而,在英国,巴基斯坦人和印度人通常是小店主,而保加利亚吉普赛人则是流浪者,通常是乞丐和小偷。 一个美国黑人使馆家庭收养了一个吉普赛男孩,确定他的外表与他们自己的种族差异不大。 每次他在最终收养之前访问时,他都必须被除掉。

    现在,我所在的 DFW 北部郊区不仅拥有数以万计的印度和巴基斯坦本地人,他们都在从事美国白人显然不会从事的工作,而且还有吉普赛人。 大约十年前,我看到的第一批吉普赛人很快就被警察和店主阻止了他们的乞求。 大多数当地白人似乎对他们的外表感到困惑——再次与其他次大陆高度相似,但我立即能够将他们识别为吉普赛人。 当我用贬义的保加利亚语“tsiganee”来称呼他们时,他们立即放弃了可怜的乞讨表情,变得愤怒和对抗。 他们确切地知道我指的是什么——我怀疑 H1B 移民会熟悉这个词。

    现在又有吉普赛人在十字路口乞讨,常常带着孩子。 当地警察似乎对移除他们不感兴趣,我不再保留任何社区利益或亲和力,也不再渴望与城市官员或警察进行任何互动,因此我没有打电话或公开抗议。 这些人明显是次大陆出现的人——没有一个人具有任何南欧特征或肤色。 当地的白人仍然不确定他们是什么,但在我心中毫无疑问。 当被称为吉普赛人时,他们仍然会愤怒地做出反应。

    • 同意: Bardon Kaldian
    • 回复: @niceland
  96. 我似乎已经开始了一场关于吉普赛人起源话题的小战争。 也许是件好事,因为这个主题可能并不像我们想象的那么清楚,尽管印度血统得到了学术认可。

    我的档案中有近 1,000 张关于吉普赛人的照片,通过仔细查看这些照片,我的总结大致如下:在我看来,可能有 30%“最有可能或绝对”来自印度。 这显然不是一个科学的评价,但仍然如此。 在另一端,有一个相当大的百分比,可能 35% 甚至 40% 似乎“绝对”是白皮肤的高加索人。 中间还有一些不容易归类的; 有些看起来“黝黑”,可能是从希腊到蒙古再到马扎尔的任何东西。

    然而,让我惊讶的是上述“高加索人”的出现不是百分比,而是它存在的事实。 如果这些人都是印度的一个群体的后裔,为什么我们这里会有蓝眼睛的瑞典人? 为什么 DNA 研究告诉我蓝眼睛的瑞典人真的是印度人? 我们不能告诉自己,任何看起来不是 100% 印第安人的人只是在进行大量杂交。

    此外,我们有可能有助于掩盖真正问题的新类别:我们有罗姆人、吉普赛人和旅行者。 这是否意味着我们有三个不同的群体,具有三个不同的起源? 如果是这样,为什么它们都以相同的方式表现并持有相似的值?

    在我看来,差异如此之大,以至于假设某些群体比其他群体“同化”得更多并因此失去了他们的印度特征似乎是不合理的。 可能我们正在与几个不同种族的人打交道,这些人有着不同的起源。 我不知道,但是将已知事实加起来根本不会产生清晰的画面。

    我在这里附上几张照片。 这些看起来是印度人的血统吗?

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/refugee-gypsy-girls-at-a-camp-outside-of-rome-their-temporary-home-as-picture-id635936645

    https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/refugee-gypsy-girls-at-a-camp-outside-of-rome-their-temporary-home-as-picture-id635936645?s=594×594

  97. Anonymous[121]• 免责声明 说:
    @Mefobills

    好的,让我们假设您所有的更正确实是正确的(因为更正应该是正确的)。 我认为它们只是合理的,但现在我没有足够的兴趣讨论你的更正。 这并没有回答我提出的基本问题。

    我想回答的基本问题是,声称控制一个国家的所有财产的政府/商业伙伴关系是否合法,因为当这些法律和规则无法执行时,大多数人口将遵守该国的法律和规则. 请注意,缺乏执法是一种物理上的必要性,因为没有(而且不可能)足够的警察来执法。 没有合法性就无法执行重要法律的常见例子是不同宗教信仰的国家在税法合规方面的差异[1]。

    当前的西方政府似乎将自己视为所有财产的所有者,可以将财产重新分配给他们指定的任何人。 预计在未来 12 个月内进入美国的数百万外国人将获得公民财产。 这有悖于征收条款[2]的精神,尽管不是对征收条款的司法解释。

    提出一个同样重要的观点,税收农业人口的输入是否替代了使美国城市具有竞争力所需的努力? 公司/政府混合的尝试(使用与您的更正一致的描述)是否实际上排除了使一些以前的第三世界城市成功的那种适应? 考虑一下 1930 年代尝试企业/政府混合所导致的那种停滞 [3],但也要考虑新加坡和中国 [4]。

    那么:这样的政府是否合法? 你的答案是什么?

    1] 见表 4.1,1999-2010 年数据,Steinmo, 信仰的飞跃:欧美成功政府的财政基础, 2018. 打印 ISBN-13: 978019879681。 https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780198796817.001.0001/oso-9780198796817-chapter-4

    2] https://www.heritage.org/constitution/amendments/5/essays/151/takings-clause
    请注意,“收入再分配”问题不被视为“征收”条款的一部分,政府进口外国集团并着手驱逐以前的居民时,房地产价值的下降也不被视为。 在 2022 年,这些“征收”被认为是政府的权利,甚至是义务。

    3] https://fee.org/articles/economic-fascism/

    4] 当然,可以说新加坡和中国都没有成功很长时间,而且都处于第一代或第二代“革命”时代。 通常一个政党统治在第三代或第四代失败,通常的例子是中国王朝的衰落,一个不太常见的例子是一种形式的罗马帝国政府被另一种取代(共和罗马 -> 戴克里先罗马 ->各种蛮族皇帝/朝代)。

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  98. @Larry Romanoff

    我可以向您展示爱尔兰“吉普赛人”的照片,但如何在 Unz 的评论中插入图片?

  99. Jiminy 说:

    有趣的是,当我开始阅读这篇文章时,我在想黑人和犹太人与吉普赛人有多么相似。 Gypos 几乎似乎是两者的融合。 显然,我不是唯一一个这么想的人。 不过,这是一本好书。
    在政治正确之前,有一部英国电视喜剧《绅士联盟》,里面有个角色叫拉扎鲁爸爸。 他是他们对一个不可靠的吉普赛人的看法。 在这些清醒的时代,显然是完全不能接受的。 但还是很好看的。 这些视频仍在互联网上。

  100. Malla 说:
    @bwuce wee

    对于任何错误,我深表歉意。

    这就是自由意志,我们选择文明或不文明。

    很少有“不文明”的运动会这样做。 DNA 很重要,如果你愿意的话,会有一些特殊的人可以被同化,但对于大多数人来说,这是行不通的。 祝你好运。

    • 同意: Trinity
    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  101. chris 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    哈哈哈,很有趣的交流!
    也许他们只是想在他们的出租车司机模仿中超越对方是 Denero

  102. @Irish Savant

    “我可以给你看爱尔兰‘吉普赛人’的照片,但我如何在 Unz 的评论中插入图片?”

    Ron 告诉我,您只需将 URL 粘贴到消息中,其余的由他的系统完成。 它似乎工作。 我只做过一次,所以我正在学习自己。

    • 回复: @Irish Savant
  103. Malla 说:

    巴尔干地区最糟糕的吉普赛氏族之一是 kalderashis,他们是吉普赛人中的吉普赛人。 其他吉普赛人发现他们过于掠夺性和部落化,不适合他们的口味。 哈哈。
    吉普赛人也有自己的国王领袖来解决他们所有的问题,他们确实是国中之国。

    • 回复: @Spender_CGB
  104. Malla 说:
    @Irish Savant

    只需输入图片的地址/url。

    • 谢谢: Irish Savant
  105. S 说:
    @Trinity

    雪儿是半个亚美尼亚人,不像迈克康纳斯(曼尼克斯的明星),他是血统的。

    Cher 的三首单曲是“Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves”、“Half-Breed”和“Dark Lady”。

    她的音乐似乎是一种趋势🙂。

    • 回复: @Trinity
  106. Anonymous[989]• 免责声明 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    抱歉,但常染色体 DNA 分析是 *一门精确的科学*.
    由于近年来计算能力和电泳技术的巨大进步,结合统计分析和古代样本的使用,简单地对祖先地理成分进行常染色体DNA分析 *不能* 被人吐槽。
    此外,欧洲的吉普赛人拥有占优势的 y DNA 标记和 mtdna 市场,这些市场是印度次大陆特有的,在欧洲土著人中从未发现过。

    最后,吉普赛人的语言“罗曼语”已被语言学家归类为绝对的印度语言——最终源自梵语——并且具有仅在 IE 语言的印度分支中发现的特征。 这在 DNA 测试之前几个世纪就已经知道了。

    • 同意: 3g4me, nokangaroos
    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @Larry Romanoff
  107. Anonymous[989]• 免责声明 说:
    @Anonymous

    即使是欧洲吉普赛人自称的名字之一“Sinti”,也或多或少与“Sindhi”相同,后者是他们起源于巴基斯坦“Sindh”的土生土长的人。

  108. Trinity 说:
    @S

    谢谢你的 411。

    是时候提示了,羽毛印第安人的“混血儿”。 我认为雪儿在唱歌是关于成为切诺基的一部分。

  109. Malla 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    我们已经讨论过,他们沿途从印度吸收了中东和欧洲的基因。 他们在历史上偷走了欧洲和伊朗/土耳其的孩子。
    此外,也有许多高加索人长相的印度人,但由于原始的 Gypos/banjaras 是低种姓,所以当他们离开印度时,他们看起来比 Caucasoid 更像土著,甚至现在 banjaras/Indian gypos 看起来更像 abo。

    顺便说一句,拉里这个女人的种族是什么? 猜测

    这就是答案
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divya_Dwivedi

    在某些情况下,我们不能依赖外表,而是依赖 DNA。

  110. Skeptikal 说:

    令人惊讶,没有提及

    伊莎贝尔·丰塞卡,立着埋葬我,

    吉普赛人扬·约尔斯

    (图书)

    我还推荐电影 Latcho Drom。

    好音乐,好电影。

    似乎接受了印度北部的论点(遵循几个世纪以来吉普赛人所采取的假定路线,但专注于当地群体 - 在提供一些美妙的音乐后总是继续前进!),但无论你是否接受,拍摄的序列都是壮观的,尤其是第一个。 我认为这是第一个,在拉贾斯坦邦。

    • 回复: @Malla
  111. @Malla

    吉普赛人有自己的国王领袖

    这个人是吉普赛人的王!!

    斗士也不错!

    • 哈哈: Malla
    • 回复: @Joe Paluka
  112. Skeptikal 说:
    @Lurker

    我在 1970 年代初期在梅奥郡看到的旅行者有着不同的肤色,但有些是白皮肤(比如,非常白),有浅绿色的眼睛和红色的头发。 也许极端是由内婚造成的。

    我在韦斯特波特的牛市看到了他们。 当男人们在广场上谈论牛肉时,一群旅行者的孩子在街上游荡。 他们逼迫我,要钱。 非常具有攻击性和早熟,尤其是红发环领袖。 7-10岁的小成年人。 我没有给他们任何东西,虽然我有点喜欢他们。 但我知道,如果我向这些杂乱无章的人屈服,我将永远无法摆脱它们,而且他们可能会胆大妄为地围攻我,抢走我的钱包、衣服等。

    您还会偶尔看到一辆老式的红色汽车在周围行驶,而那些是旅行者。 他们喜欢红色。

  113. Mefobills 说:
    @Anonymous

    好的,让我们假设您所有的更正确实是正确的(因为更正应该是正确的)。 我认为它们只是合理的,但现在我没有足够的兴趣讨论你的更正。

    实际上,这是公司统治。 对不起,所有这些词听起来都一样,但不是。 这就是为什么人们不知道什么是法西斯主义。 把它想象成一个公会系统。

    在美国,等级制度是公司凌驾于政府之上。 这是债权人精英阶层的潜规则。 这种政府形式是非法的,因为它不能确保一般福利,但可以确保捐助者/债权人的福利。

    我想回答的基本问题是,声称控制一个国家的所有财产的政府/商业伙伴关系是否合法,因为当这些法律和规则无法执行时,大多数人口将遵守该国的法律和规则.

    控制所有财产是共产主义。 这是一种失败的政府形式,因为它是一个金字塔系统,指向一小群盗贼。 人民(公共福利)同意将他们的一些自然权利放弃给政府,转让使用武力的权利。 如果没有这种有限的武力转移,那么从人口中出现的掠食者和小偷就可以自由支配。 BLM 和黑人暴动任何人?

    请注意,缺乏执法是一种物理上的必要性,因为没有(而且不可能)足够的警察来执法。 没有合法性就无法执行重要法律的常见例子是不同宗教信仰的国家在税法合规方面的差异

    高度共识、高度同质化、高度信任的文明不需要庞大的警力,人民自律。 你的例子只发生在低信任度的文明中……那些有很多相互竞争的群体的文明。 这就是为什么驱逐犹太人,或者不移民穆斯林,或者创造“胡言乱语之塔”文明是一个好主意的原因。 普特南的书《独自保龄球》解释了什么是社会资本。 美国过去信任度高,现在信任度低,社会资本低。

    当前的西方政府似乎将自己视为所有财产的所有者,可以将财产重新分配给他们指定的任何人。 预计在未来 12 个月内进入美国的数百万外国人将获得公民财产。

    西方政府是由金融资本在幕后运作的。 金融资本希望通过输出就业或进口廉价劳动力在世界上任何地方获得收益。 公司制是法西斯主义的对立面。 法西斯主义是一种保护国家劳工的行会制度。

    法西斯主义和民族社会主义不是意识形态的死胡同,它们没有在思想的战场上被打败。 共产主义内爆,金融资本主义内爆,因为它们表明它们是不稳定的系统。 NS和法西斯主义者都被民主国家的侵略战争杀死在婴儿床中,嗯,金融资本阶级操纵民主国家。

    处理财产的方法是对租金和场地价值征税。 “债权人阶级”不会同意这一点,而是会尝试拥有财产并对自己免税,同时对生产征税。 例如,所得税是对生产征税。

    征收条款是一纸空文。 人们现在被带去兜风,税收制度没有正确征税。

    提出一个也许同样重要的观点,税收农业人口的输入是否替代了使美国城市具有竞争力所需的努力

    美国城市总是试图对自己征税并对腹地征税。 这就是开国元勋提出选举团的原因。 大城市地区将单片投票,他们的人口数量将影响选举,因此腹地将成为一项糟糕的工作。 然后,这个国家将由城市债权人精英和黑帮老大管理,告诉城市劳动阶级如何投票。 腹地将没有机会。 法国的黄背心运动就是这一动态的一部分。 进口人是为了劳动力成本低,这对国家现有的人民没有好处。

    公司/政府混合的尝试(使用与您的更正一致的描述)是否实际上排除了使一些以前的第三世界城市成功的那种适应? 考虑一下 1930 年代尝试企业/政府混合所导致的那种停滞 [3],但也要考虑新加坡和中国 [4]。

    新加坡和中国是混合型经济体,采用威权政府形式,而不是关注大众福利的公司政府。 中国的精英们公开露面,他们经常把企业领导人的头撞到墙上。 例如,马云被猛烈抨击。 他们是合法的政府。 然而,他们没有正确征税并且存在房地产泡沫。 中国实际上正在使用美国经济体系,或者是它的改编版。

    真的没有适应,历史上只有一种经济形式可以发挥作用,那就是混合经济/工业资本主义,它是由殖民者发明的,并在1912年被推翻。德国冒昧地适应了美国制度,然后在第一次世界大战和第二次世界大战中遭到袭击。

    政府的形式并不重要,只要它能够为公众提供福利。 民主是一种失败的政府形式,因为它充当了债权人和金融阶层的胡子。

    如果你能回到过去并调查 NS 德国人或法西斯意大利人,他们对自己的生活状况非常满意。

    请注意,“收入再分配”问题不被视为“征收”条款的一部分,当外国团体被政府进口并着手驱逐以前的居民时,房地产价值的下降也不被视为。 在 2022 年,这些“征收”被认为是政府的权利,甚至是义务。

    唯一合法的税收是租金、非劳动收入和场地价值税。 通过关税征税也是合法的,因为它为本土工业提供了发展空间,从而雇佣了本国劳动力。 中国使用各种关税,效果很好。 如果行业垄断,关税将被释放。 所有这些东西都为古典经济学所熟知。

    通常一个政党统治在第三代或第四代失败,通常的例子是中国王朝的衰落,一个不太常见的例子是一种形式的罗马帝国政府被另一种取代(共和罗马 -> 戴克里先罗马 ->各种蛮族皇帝/朝代)。

    匈牙利的宪政王国持续了近 1000 年。 近东的神王通过周期性的债务释放来平衡文明。 他们也很稳定。 你所有的例子都是由于债权人以牺牲公共福利为代价而两极分化的文明。

    任何形式的衰退都是由于债权人阶级或寡头政治的出现,而这类人可能是反社会者,或者患有金钱病(世界还不够)。

    从一开始,如果分析不包括信用和债务,它就是不完整的,而且真的是无用的分析。

    1926 年,墨索里尼将银行国有化,因为银行家正在投票缺席股票。 他们正在摇摆股市并获取肮脏的利润。 一个不能保护其人民免受天生(或进口)掠食者侵害的政府是非法的。

    • 回复: @Anonymous
  114. 很棒的文章,很棒的评论。 从人类学的角度来看,这个主题很有趣。 在 犹太世纪, Yuri Slezkine 提到了流浪民族中的吉普赛人,他们认为他们的存在方式“是对原始违法行为的神圣惩罚”。 例如:“在许多解释吉普赛人困境的传说中,有人声称亚当和夏娃硕果累累,以至于他们决定向上帝隐瞒他们的一些孩子,上帝变得愤怒并谴责那些他看不到的孩子永远无家可归。 其他解释包括对乱伦或拒绝招待的惩罚,但最常见的解释是吉普赛人伪造了用来钉死耶稣的钉子”(《犹太世纪》,普林斯顿大学,2004 年,第 22-23 页)。 
    该隐的圣经故事有一个有趣的相似之处,它肯定是从 Qenites 的病因传说中借来的。 该隐和Qenites在圣经中是同一个词, 盖因,这个词的意思是“史密斯”。 这表明昆尼特人认为自己受到了诅咒,因为他们的同名祖先遭到了某种谋杀。 该隐的后裔在创世记 4:19-24 中被描述为生活在帐篷里的游牧民族、铁器的发明者、金属乐器的制造者,并以魔法保护为标志,使攻击他们很危险(根据对“该隐的记号”在创世记 4:15)。 这可能很适合圣经时代的 Qenites(无论这意味着什么)。 我听说古代阿拉伯有铜匠部落。 他们是游牧民族,因为他们的技能需要在非常广泛的地区进行。 他们也经常以精通音乐艺术而闻名。 最后,它们经常成为迷信恐惧的对象,因为金属加工艺术与魔法有关。
    真正有趣的地方在于,一些学者(从 1906 年的爱德华·迈耶开始)认为昆特人是第一批崇拜耶和华的人,因为据说摩西的岳父是一名昆尼特人,而摩西的岳父是他的岳父。 (士师记 1:16)。
    希伯来人的宗教和自我认同的起源与祖先自相残杀的诅咒有关的假设很有趣。 既然游牧民族深深植根于希伯来人的集体记忆中,那么我们是否应该在可以追溯到原始自相残杀的“该隐情结”中寻找犹太人流浪的秘密根源,就像弗洛伊德在普遍的俄狄浦斯情结可以追溯到原始的弑亲者(图腾与禁忌, 1913)?

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @Skeptikal
  115. @Irish Savant

    将您的图像滑入 https://postimages.org/fr/
    然后在您的评论中复制作为“直接链接”给出的网址

    • 谢谢: Mefobills, Irish Savant
    • 回复: @Irish Savant
  116. 包括大屠杀纪念日信托、奥斯威辛纪念日和希望不仇恨在内的反仇恨团体谴责吉米卡尔在他的 Netflix 特别节目中对吉普赛人、罗马人和旅行者社区的评论。

    这部名为《他的黑暗物质》的节目于圣诞节上映,但在周五发布并在网上分享了一段视频后,受到了广泛关注。

    卡尔说:“当人们谈论大屠杀时,他们谈论的是 6 万犹太人死于纳粹战争机器的悲剧和恐怖。 但他们从未提及被纳粹杀害的数千名吉普赛人。

    “没有人愿意谈论这个,因为没有人愿意谈论积极的一面。”

    • 哈哈: 3g4me
    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  117. Sollipsist 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    大多是文盲,也是天才。 对加入任何会排除此人的团队不感兴趣。

    • 回复: @Joe Paluka
  118. @Malla

    那么她的种族是什么? 链接说她来自阿拉哈巴德,所以是某种印度人,但具体是什么种族? 也许她的祖先有阿拉伯语、伊朗语或土耳其语。 在安拉的那个城市里甚至还有犹太人。

    • 回复: @Malla
  119. Z-man 说:

    让我们回到我的剔除帖子。 将 10 万吉普赛人添加到列表中。😈😆😈
    我的吉普赛故事:
    我在罗马体育馆对面的山上。 那是八月,所以很热。 我把家人留在了空调车里,我和儿子一起去山顶上的小贩那里买点心。 我穿着我的工装短裤,口袋里装了大约 500 欧元。 在较低的平台上,当我向儿子解释罗马的伟大时,我注意到一个老妇人带着一群小女孩。 它们突然蜂拥而至,当小手伸进我的口袋时,我的蜘蛛感触动了。 为了让 Stan Lee 和 John Romita 感到自豪,我像眼镜蛇一样转身,差点踢到一个顽童的脸。 谢天谢地我没有,否则我今天可能还在罗马监狱里。 他们分散了,我检查了我的口袋。 一切都很安全,但是当你需要一个衣冠楚楚的宪兵队时,哪里来的?
    他们正在山下与一些女游客交谈。

    • 回复: @Joe Paluka
  120. Kali 应该发表评论,因为她曾经和旅行者一起跑步,并且一定也遇到了吉普赛人/罗姆人。 有传统的吉普赛人和爱尔兰旅行者,但在撒切尔夫人时代之后,面临永久失业和无家可归的年轻人激增,他们上路并加入了游牧旅行者社区和生活方式。

  121. @Malla

    她显然是波斯或突厥血统。

    而且她在维基百科的空间比过去一些真正的欧洲哲学家还要多。

    • 回复: @Malla
  122. bwuce wee 说:
    @Mefobills

    二战期间,卓越的法西斯政权是意大利和德国。 这些政府形式的特点是基本上由公司管理政府。 这就是法西斯主义的定义:不是威权主义=法西斯主义,不是独裁=法西斯主义,而是公司过度影响和控制政府。 facismo es mi 救恩是墨索里尼最喜欢的歌。 所以社团主义与法西斯主义没有什么不同——正如你所说,社团主义只是对控制政府的公司的老歌和舞蹈的现代重塑。 这正是我们在美国拥有的政府形式——大科技发号施令,大石油发号施令,大型制药公司发号施令。 再多的借口、合理化或智力体操都无法掩盖这一事实。 我希望您实际上对此一无所知,因为如果您意识到这一点,那么您就是法西斯辩护者。

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  123. @Here Be Dragon

    有一个古老的传说,吉普赛人起源于从帖木儿逃亡的人或民族。

    另一种探究途径——迦太基人的命运能否被解释?

  124. bwuce wee 说:
    @Malla

    当一个人犯罪时,那是因为他们做出了选择。 那是自由意志。 即使他们只是在错误的时间出现在错误的地方,他们也选择了在那里。 监狱存在的真正原因是,随着时间的推移和惩罚,一些人看到了他们的方式错误。 这就是监禁的目的。 处决所有罪犯会更加安全和方便,但是,文明允许那些做出错误选择的人反思他们的错误。 它在某些情况下是成功的。 就个人而言,我不相信监禁(我认为罪犯应该为他/她的违法行为支付金钱赔偿),我更喜欢死刑。 但我不是负责人,所以我对此事的看法无关紧要。 当然不是每个人都会选择被同化,这就是自由意志的困境。 我没有创造自由意志,我只是这种情况下的信使。 在你的场景中,DNA 是替罪羊,但这种愚蠢就像是在说‘同性恋基因和同性恋者无法帮助它在他们的基因中’。 这一理论已被推翻。 精神病理学基因存在于每个人的遗传背景中。 但是精神病患者非常聪明,对我来说,这意味着他们可以并且确实做出选择——所以他们的罪行是自由意志的罪行。 连环杀手知道他们是罪犯,否则他们不会隐藏自己的踪迹。

    • 回复: @Malla
  125. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    她是来自我的UP州的纯婆罗门印度教徒。 她的姓是 Dwivedi,意思是两个吠陀的学者。 我们甚至有姓氏的婆罗门,Trivedis(三吠陀)和 Chaturvedis(四吠陀)。

    • 回复: @Malla
  126. Malla 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    她显然是波斯或突厥血统。

    不,她是来自我的 UP 州,我的族群的纯粹顶级婆罗门印度教徒。 她的姓是 Dwivedi,意思是两个吠陀的学者。 我们甚至有姓氏的婆罗门,Trivedi(三吠陀)和 Chaturvedi(四吠陀)。

    • 谢谢: Bardon Kaldian
    • 回复: @Odyssey
  127. Anonymous[121]• 免责声明 说:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    由于游牧民族深深植根于希伯来人的集体记忆中, 那么我们是否应该寻找犹太人流浪的秘密来源 在一个可以追溯到原始自相残杀的“该隐情结”中,就像弗洛伊德在一个可以追溯到原始弑亲的普遍俄狄浦斯情结中寻找人类心灵的钥匙(图腾和禁忌,1913)?

    这是另一种解释:

    有人提出,犹太宗教/社会形式在很大程度上适应了被征服然后遭受种族灭绝企图的生存。 巴比伦流放是(据我所知)这种征服和种族灭绝企图的第一个记录实例。
    如果这是犹太教从自己的社会形式移植到另一种社会形式后第一次抵抗同化的经历,那么犹太教似乎不太可能在巴比伦流放中幸存下来。 撒玛利亚人也可以这么说,他们是犹太下层阶级/不熟练的部分,没有特殊技能,因此被亚述人留在了犹太。
    如果有人假设文化借鉴,甚至部分起源于 Qenites,就会得到更合理的解释。 Qenites 用来与周围的非游牧社会保持分离的方法,如果只是作为传说,就可以用于犹太人,并且可以解释两个犹太分支(巴比伦人和撒玛利亚人)的显着和独特的生存。

    我应该补充一点,犹太社会的生存似乎依赖于对种族灭绝一再尝试的强烈信念,而且(从我在 60 年代至 70 年代看到的)同化往往会激起拉比的恐惧,甚至是偏执狂,进入犹太青年。 虽然这种尝试可能会在部分或大部分犹太年轻人身上失败,但它确实需要足够多的案例来产生当前的犹太分裂主义。
    就此而言,我已经看到足够多的案例,在这些案例中,同化的尝试完全失败了(如在毛姆的《外星玉米》中),我认为融入周围社会对犹太血统的人来说是致命的想法是有道理的。 我怀疑对于吉普赛血统的人来说也是如此,如果可以相信 BLM 和各种亚洲血统的政治工作者,那么对于他们的种族群体也是如此。

    这不是我在 1960 年代承诺的相同人类的世界。

  128. @Anonimko

    有趣的。 如果他们的起源在印度,那么从逻辑上讲,东南欧将是他们的第一个到达点,而英国、斯堪的纳维亚半岛和波罗的海地区则是他们的最后一个到达点。 这正是您的地图显示的内容。 我赌的是某种印度血统。 他们的真正问题是他们是多么史诗般的同化失败。

  129. Malla 说:
    @Skeptikal

    谢谢。 从服装和舞蹈来看,印度的吉普赛人似乎更像是拉贾斯坦邦而不是旁遮普人,拉贾斯坦邦是印度西北部的邦,沙漠和宫殿。
    最著名的拉贾斯坦歌曲(起源于吉普赛)是“Kaliyo Kood Padiyo Mela me“。 我不知道翻译,因为我不会说他们的语言,但我听过很多次这首歌。 很棒的歌曲,塔尔沙漠的吉普赛歌曲,欣赏!!!

    • 谢谢: Skeptikal
  130. @Larry Romanoff

    当然,我在现实生活中见过、见过,甚至和吉普赛人有过互动。 我在四个不同的国家见过吉普赛人,而且每次我一看到他们就知道他们是吉普赛人。 是的,我没有去过印度,但是我喜欢印度教文化并且对他们的宗教感兴趣,所以我知道一两件事。

    我知道印度没有明确的种族背景,主要有四个不同种族的族群。 北方人与南方人不同; 他们说不同的语言,他们的民间传说也不同。 确定吉普赛人遗传起源的区域以红色显示。

    你可以在互联网上找到很多照片。 该地区的人通常具有白皙的肤色,有时是绿色的眼睛,但更多时候他们的眼睛是浅棕色的。 面部特征与波斯或亚美尼亚表型非常相似。 我在现实生活中看到的吉普赛人介于两种主要种族之间。

    南印度人皮肤黝黑。 显然他们属于你所指的种族背景。 然而,在该国东北部还有其他群体,人们看起来更像是蒙古人种,而在西北部,他们看起来更像是白种人。 我们谈论的是整个人群,数以千万计的人。

    英国罗姆人在我看来不像吉普赛人,如果我看到他们,我也不会认为他们是吉普赛人。 至于他们看起来这么白的原因,我认为这是杂交、混血和普遍同化的结果。 显然,在英格兰,他们的情况变得更好了,也许是因为他们与其他人分开了。

    西班牙罗姆人也被很好地同化了。 我们都知道和喜爱的弗拉门戈文化是西班牙吉普赛人的民间传说。 我不知道他们是否在英国和西班牙保持种姓制度,但在东欧他们肯定有,这是常识。 他们按部族组织,每个部族都由男爵管理。

    [更多]
    保加利亚的吉普赛人
    https://elenapaleolog.com/2020/07/12/%D1%86%D1%8B%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%B2-%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8/

    吉普赛族群是一个等级森严的社会。 保加利亚有四种主要种姓:从特权阶层到最贫穷阶层。 在收银台之间移动,像“社交电梯”这样的东西是不可能的,也是不允许的。 也许有一个例外。 当与低种姓的代表结婚时,配偶失去了他的地位和与家庭的联系,完全传给了低种姓。 爬上去是绝​​对不可能的。

    • 回复: @Bardon Kaldian
  131. Joe Paluka 说:
    @Z-man

    在欧洲穿得像个邋遢的美国游客(工装短裤 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cthA22qL9AI),你要求被吉普赛人和任何其他团体掠夺。 花一些钱买像样的衣服,看起来像欧洲人,吉普赛人会让你一个人呆着。

    • 回复: @Z-man
  132. Joe Paluka 说:
    @Sollipsist

    姜戈·莱因哈特无论如何都不是天才,他可以拿起吉他弹奏音乐。 你听起来像一个我认识的白人,他认为所有黑人音乐家都是天才,黑人灵魂充满了神奇的音乐力量。

    • 谢谢: Irish Savant
    • 回复: @raga10
    , @Sollipsist
  133. CCG 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    印度教对非印度教徒(mlecchas)的态度可以在这里阅读:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_pani_(taboo)

  134. Joe Paluka 说:
    @Spender_CGB

    泰森·弗瑞(Tyson Fury)是一位“爱尔兰旅行者”,与本文所描述的吉普赛人完全不同。 这些人是英国/爱尔兰血统,大约 300-400 年前开始在英国和爱尔兰漫游。 他们的名声远不及点吉普赛人。

  135. Mefobills 说:
    @bwuce wee

    二战期间,卓越的法西斯政权是意大利和德国。 这些政府形式的特点是基本上由公司管理政府。 这就是法西斯主义的定义:

    以上是你想象的事情。 你试图强加你的错误定义。

    这是墨索里尼的定义,他是权威而不是你:

    https://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

    他们是威权政府,权力在很大程度上是由于劳工处于从属地位。 工业革命正在脱轨,人们想要某种补救措施。

    就德国而言,该国多达 1/3 的土地被德国人买下。 这是使用与俄罗斯在 90 年代受到猛烈抨击的相同机制完成的。 (是的,大部分是犹太人,他们对无辜的人进行高利贷诈骗。)

    墨索里尼:

    国家,正如法西斯主义所构想和实现的,是确保国家政治、司法和经济组织的精神和伦理实体,这个组织的起源和发展是精神的体现。 国家保障国家的内外安全,同时也保障和传递人民的精神,在语言、风俗、信仰等方面历久弥新。 国家不仅是现在; 它也是过去,尤其是未来。 超越个人短暂的生命,国家代表着民族的内在良知。 它发现表达的形式发生了变化,但对它的需求仍然存在。 国家对公民进行公民主义教育,使他们意识到自己的使命,敦促他们团结一致; 它的正义协调了他们不同的利益; 它将科学、艺术、法律、人类团结等领域的思想成果传授给后代; 它带领人们从原始的部落生活上升到人类权力的最高体现,即帝国统治。

    在墨索里尼的定义中,他没有说“公司应在幕后统治”。 意大利和 NS 德国的垂直权力都公开了,而不是一群反社会者为自己的肮脏利益谋求利益。

    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  136. @RoatanBill

    让我们不要忘记政府中所有为了个人的荣耀和利益而残害和杀害他人的人。 由于政府直接死亡的人数巨大,是否有估计因政府行动/战争而致残的人数?

    与政府中的精神病患者相比,吉普赛人是派克。 也许他们联系在一起,因为这两个群体仍然是动物。

  137. Skeptikal 说:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    似乎在许多传统中,还有了解金属加工秘密的北欧人、人和神——其中一定不仅包括如何经营锻造、捣碎和塑造熔融金属以及管理火,所有这些都非常危险,但此外,如何将金属结合以获得坚固合金的秘密也具有特殊的地位。

    当人们考虑拥有最强金属和武器所赋予的力量时,不难看出为什么会出现这种情况。

    说到gadje,Yul Brynner 自称是罗姆人/吉普赛人。

    他的传记,由他的儿子写,非常有趣,非常聪明,值得一读,其中包含大量的段落,其中 Yul 辱骂或从“Gadje”中取笑或告诉他的儿子他不必注意gadjo所说或所想的任何事情。 他们是可悲的懦夫!

    或者只是惊呼,“加乔!” 作为对他们无知的全面解释,尤其是如果他们碰巧遇到尤尔,或者期望他表现得恰当或符合预期。

    https://www.amazon.com/Yul-Would-King-Memoir-Father
    通过岩石布林纳

    更多:
    https://romediafoundation.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/yul-brynner-romani-hollywood-icon/

    在这个网站上揭穿了围绕吉普赛人的“神话”。 不过,我还没有读完全文。

    我还在 1992 年在摩拉维亚的奥洛穆茨和 1970 年代初在巴伐利亚南部看到了吉普赛人。
    我将在单独的帖子中写下我观察到的内容。

  138. @Anonymous

    “对不起,但常染色体 DNA 分析是 *一门精确的科学*. 简单地对祖先地理成分进行 DNA 分析 *不能* 狡辩。”

    我完全同意 DNA 测序可以而且通常是决定性的,但这张图片并不像你所暗示的那样黑白分明。 你猜发生了什么? 是否有人将 15 万吉普赛人排成一列并从每个人身上提取 DNA 样本?

    结果有没有说:
    吉普赛人 #1:DNA 100% 印度人
    吉普赛人 #2:DNA 100% 印度。 . .

    “最后,吉普赛人的语言‘罗马语’已被语言学家归类为绝对的印度语言——最终源自梵语——并且具有仅在 IE 语言的印度分支中发现的特征。”

    不完全正确。 有证据表明,某些吉普赛语言与波希米亚语和捷克语的相似度更高——它们本身与梵语有联系。

    使这个主题如此有趣的是,这些都不是非黑即白的。 我们应该公开审查所有选项,而不是试图通过“这是唯一的真理”的威权(欺凌)声明来阻止探索。

    一些读者似乎在提出一种可能没有道理的“圣经真理”立场。 这个故事还有太多未完待续的结局,太多没有好的答案的问题。

    • 回复: @karel
  139. Skeptikal 说:
    @Mick Jagger Gathers No Mosque

    嗯,这是一个非常令人讨厌的说法。

    德国资料中有一些非常可悲的故事,讲述了“居民”吉普赛人是如何被带走的,比如一个老人把他的马车停在波茨坦的一个更偏远的地区,并列出了他的小物件清单,包括他的马车、一个锅、两把椅子、一个灯笼——诸如此类。 所以这些财产都被列出来了,这份清单也被保留了下来。

    这是关于罗马的相当长的参考书目,并非全部都与第三帝国有关。
    德国人一直很擅长民族志。 . .

    https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/sinti-and-roma

    在 ushmm 网站上有大量关于德国和中欧其他地方的吉普赛人的信息——尽管 UR 的许多人对在该网站上找到的任何东西都嗤之以鼻!

    例如,
    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/persecution-of-roma-gypsies-in-prewar-germany-1933-1939?series=19

  140. @Commentator Mike

    马扎尔人可能听起来不像欧洲人,但他们绝对看起来像欧洲人。 他们的特征没有任何迹象表明他们是蒙古人或其他亚洲人。

    是的,我也想指出这一点。

    匈牙利人与他们的近亲芬兰人一样从乌拉尔迁徙而来。

    匈牙利人的起源,他们的民族起源的地点和时间,一直是一个争论的问题。 匈牙利语被归类为乌戈尔语,匈牙利人通常被认为是起源于乌拉尔山脉、西西伯利亚或伏尔加河中部地区的乌戈尔人。 语言和遗传数据证实了匈牙利人与其他乌戈尔人的相关性,但现代匈牙利人有大量来自当地欧洲人口的混合物。

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians#Origin

    与其他西乌拉尔和波罗的海芬兰人一样,芬兰人起源于现在俄罗斯的伏尔加河、奥卡河和卡马河之间。 未来芬兰人的遗传基础也出现在这一领域。 芬兰人的祖先至少有两次明显的向西方迁移的浪潮。

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns#Origins

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  141. RoatanBill 说:
    @Drapetomaniac

    您要求的信息的一个方便来源是:
    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE5.HTM

    有一个关于美国的部分和一长串美国随着时间的推移犯下的所有谋杀案以及其他国家的记录。

    大多数人没有意识到,政府机构在 200,000,000 世纪造成了超过 20 亿人的死亡。 他们选择了在国家之间制造摩擦的怪物,最终导致了愚蠢的人去打仗的战争。 政府需要对本国人民进行盗窃、胁迫、欺诈和暴力,才能建立起身着服装的低等生活军人,然后前往外国谋杀他们以前从未见过的人。 在美国,大多数是假装是有道德的人的基督徒。

    您可能还想阅读马克吐温对战争的看法。
    https://warprayer.org/

  142. @Here Be Dragon

    英国罗姆人在我看来不像吉普赛人,如果我看到他们,我也不会认为他们是吉普赛人。 至于他们看起来这么白的原因,我认为这是杂交、混血和普遍同化的结果。

    不,他们是爱尔兰人,除了游牧生活方式外,与罗马人没有任何共同之处。

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers
    ..........................
    由于类似的流动生活方式,有人建议旅行者与罗姆人有关,但基因测试没有显示爱尔兰旅行者和罗姆旅行者之间最近的祖先成分的证据。
    .........................
    关于他们起源的其他猜测是,他们是那些在 1650 年代克伦威尔征服期间无家可归的爱尔兰人的后裔,或者在 1741 或 1840 年代饥荒或由于驱逐而无家可归的爱尔兰人。
    .................................................
    爱尔兰旅行者说英语,有时会说两种 Shelta 方言中的一种——Gammon(或 Gamin)和爱尔兰旅行者 Cant。 Shelta 的历史可以追溯到 18 世纪,但可能更早。 Cant 源自爱尔兰语,是英语和 Shelta 的组合。

    Jean-Pierre Liégeois 写道,爱尔兰旅行者 Gammon 词汇源自 13 世纪前的盖尔语成语,其中 13% 是印度血统的罗姆语词汇。 由于 Shelta 是英语和爱尔兰语法的混合体,因此词源并不简单。 该语言主要由爱尔兰词典组成,被归类为语法词典语言,语法以英语为基础。 盖尔语专家库诺·迈耶(Kuno Meyer)和罗姆语语言学家约翰·桑普森(John Sampson)都断言,Shelta 早在 300 世纪就已经存在,比第一批罗姆人到达爱尔兰或英国早了 XNUMX 年。

    • 回复: @Here Be Dragon
  143. raga10 说:
    @Joe Paluka

    姜戈·莱因哈特无论如何都不是天才,他可以拿起吉他弹奏音乐。 你听起来像一个我认识的白人,他认为所有黑人音乐家都是天才,黑人灵魂充满了神奇的音乐力量。

    好吧,我向你保证,我没有这样的幻想,但我仍然认为 Django 非常特别。 天才? 我不知道如何定义或衡量天才,所以我不喜欢使用这个词。 但他肯定不仅仅是普通的吉他手。

    • 回复: @Sollipsist
  144. Anonymous[121]• 免责声明 说:
    @Mefobills

    好的,我将更大胆地表明我的立场:

    当前的世界体系正在分崩离析。 它无法维持其资本基础,其科学、工程和技术(“关于如何制造事物的知识”)都在倒退。 作为一个例子,考虑一下小学中“唤醒”灌输对数学的取代。 精英们现在对摘要的无知几乎是完全的,但是一代人认为2+2不是4,是压迫,会更糟。

    当前的国际形势有可能大大减少世界贸易。 适应这种情况需要相当大的工程技能,而这种技能从未被开发出来。 那时的“政治现实”变成了“不能让大部分人吃饱、住屋或穿衣”。 见短篇小说《下颌骨》, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mandibles ,了解这可能意味着什么。

    因此,我对当前的系统不太感兴趣。 我已经接受了它,它不会持续太久,以至于我的适应失败了。 我对后继系统有点兴趣。

    你的文字:

    任何形式的衰退都是由于债权人阶级或寡头政治的出现,而这类人可能是反社会者,或者患有金钱病(世界还不够)。

    从一开始,如果分析不包括信用和债务,它就是不完整的,而且真的是无用的分析。

    建议您可能对当前世界组织的继任者有一些看法。

    问:继承制度是否应该声称控制其主权区域内的所有财产? 请注意,在 1800 年代的英国,金钱、商业和财产被认为“太重要了,不能交给政府”。

    告别施舍

    将这种态度归因于几代人的坚持,促成了公元 1800 年的工业革命。

    问:如果不是,那么继承制度在其主权领域内应声称的适当权威是什么? 请记住,那时的继任系统不会有很多资源,并且在维持足够的和平以支持经济活动方面会遇到一些麻烦。

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  145. RoatanBill 说:
    @Drapetomaniac

    朋霍费尔的愚蠢理论描述了积极支持政府的人:

  146. Z-man 说:
    @Joe Paluka

    嘿嘿嘿,95°,很舒服,里面有500欧元,所以很贵。 👅😝👅

  147. @Here Be Dragon

    我不相信维基百科上关于马扎尔人的条目是正确的。 Wiki 是如此的政治化,并且如此被议程编辑,以至于它几乎无法作为任何参考。 你当然可以自由地创造你自己的现实。

    “我们(匈牙利人)是伟大的阿提拉匈奴的后裔”。 “五支蒙古人在欧洲声名鹊起:匈奴人及其强大的酋长阿提拉、马扎尔人、土耳其人或奥斯曼里人,以及入侵俄罗斯的蒙古人……”

    有确凿的证据表明马扎尔人从蒙古西部迁移到东欧。 你可以假装这个证据不存在,从而忽略它而支持不同的理论。

  148. @RoatanBill

    你知道为什么欧洲有吉普赛人,而美国有野蛮的城市黑人吗?

    欧洲获得了第一选择。

    • 回复: @RoatanBill
  149. GenFranco 说:
    @Cool Daddy Jimbo

    长大这首歌(以及邦德电影“来自俄罗斯的爱”)是我对吉普赛人的全部了解。 后来我在巴黎地铁上了解到他们的另一件事,花了我 500.00 美元和两张信用卡。 关于这首歌的几个问题:

    “爸爸会尽力而为。 传一点福音……”

    吉普赛人真的传福音吗?

    “每天晚上,所有的男人都会过来,放下他们的钱。”

    这很常见吗? 吉普赛妓女靠当地男人的情欲为生?

    “我十六岁,他二十一岁……如果他知道他做了什么,爸爸会杀了他。”

    肯定不是因为年龄差。 因为他私自侵犯了他组的一个女性?

  150. Skeptikal 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    当我在布达佩斯时,我被大教堂里匈牙利人的魅力所震撼。 这是大约 30 年前的事了。

    他们肯定看起来没有任何亚洲 DNA。

    灰色的眼睛,深陷,目光清澈; 浅棕色头发,通常呈波浪状; 更多方脸; 皮肤苍白但不“公平”。

  151. 也许是因为在俄罗斯他们有一所很好的罗姆语研究学校,我所知道的关于吉普赛人的最佳信息来源是俄语。 现在,当我在寻找其他东西时,我偶然发现了一篇文章,其中提到了以下内容。

    “现代研究表明,吉普赛人的传统文化保留了同样的传统民族社会分层机制,这种机制决定了印度种姓和种姓划分的发展。 这种机制在吉普赛人和印度贾蒂种姓中的运作原理明显相似,这常常导致试图将个别吉普赛群体归于印度特定的现代种姓群体。”

  152. Sollipsist 说:
    @Joe Paluka

    你听起来像是在业余时间想了很多关于黑人的事情。

    • 回复: @Malla
  153. @Larry Romanoff

    不真实

    匈牙利人来自与芬兰人相似的亚洲高加索人居住的地区。 他们在种族和视觉上与来自蒙古和中国等地的真正亚洲人几乎没有共同之处。

    对它们的 Y-DNA 和线粒体测试表明它们没有“亚洲血统”(无论这意味着什么)。

  154. Mefobills 说:
    @Anonymous

    当前的世界体系正在分崩离析。 它无法维持其资本基础,其科学、工程和技术(“关于如何制造事物的知识”)都在倒退。 作为一个例子,考虑一下小学中“唤醒”灌输对数学的取代。 精英们现在对摘要的无知几乎是完全的,但是一代人认为2+2不是4,是压迫,会更糟。

    是的,但这只是在西方世界。 乌克兰战争造成了裂痕。 欧亚大陆正在发展自己的“世界体系”。

    https://en.newizv.ru/article/general/25-03-2022/sergei-glazyev-to-spoil-russia-the-united-states-and-great-britain-committed-suicide

    他们已经失去了世界领导地位,他们的权威被大大削弱了。

    我对后继系统有点兴趣。

    折叠和重建。 债权人寡头从不心甘情愿地放手。 通常有一场革命,他们被杀。 杀戮的是一个超级寡头,一个暴君(一个好暴君),如果农民加入他,他同意免除债务。

    问:继承制度是否应该声称控制其主权区域内的所有财产? 请注意,在 1800 年代的英国,金钱、商业和财产被认为“太重要了,不能交给政府”。

    1694 年在伦敦形成的金融资本主义体系正处于“自由”的垂死挣扎中。 它也被称为大西洋主义。 一切因债务而两极分化的文明崩溃只是时间问题。 除非有债务释放,否则未来的西方世代将不会屈服于债务奴役。

    俄罗斯和中国正在建立继任者制度。 西方要么崩溃,要么被迫改变方向。 中国和俄罗斯都有私有财产权。 他们仍然必须学习如何正确征税,并释放可恶的债务。

  155. @Larry Romanoff

    亲爱的罗曼诺夫先生,

    我在回复另一个人时发布了它。 没有理由生气,更不用说指责我有偏见了。 大多数人都知道如何找到指向特定维基百科段落所基于的文章的链接。 引用的来源通常是可信的。 有时不是。

    但我有在发表评论之前检查它的习惯。

    [更多]
    “根据史料,古代匈牙利人由七个同盟部落和从可萨人分裂出来的支离破碎的部落组成,他们于公元九世纪末从东欧大草原抵达喀尔巴阡盆地。”

    “匈牙利征服者起源于欧亚大草原的三个遥远地区,不同种族加入了他们:贝加尔湖-阿尔泰山脉——匈奴和突厥民族,西西伯利亚——南乌拉尔——芬兰-乌戈尔民族,以及黑海-北高加索——高加索和东欧人民。”

    “因此,古代匈牙利人以部落联盟的形式征服了他们的家园,他们是亚洲匈奴人、芬兰-乌戈尔人、高加索人和来自东欧大草原的斯拉夫人的血缘亲属。”

    匈牙利男性征服者的遗传分析:征服匈牙利部落的欧洲和亚洲父系血统
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0

  156. 3g4me 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    @98 拉里·罗曼诺夫

    欧洲出现的“吉普赛人”显然是爱尔兰旅行者——遗传学上的爱尔兰人,而不是次大陆人,尽管如果我记得的话,这是一个明显的菌株,它确实与主流爱尔兰人不同。 然而,他们的生活方式可能看起来与吉普赛人相似,但他们的遗传起源不同。 再一次,你似乎没有考虑到在整个历史上,吉普赛人抢走白人儿童并将他们“收养”到部落中的大量参考资料。

    你标记为“地中海出现”的两个女孩的照片在我看来显然是吉普赛人。 尤其是左边那个年轻的。 右边的那个可能会被认为是西西里人,但你再次没有提到几个世纪以来有限杂交的可能性很大。

  157. niceland 说:
    @3g4me

    一些吉普赛人拥有更多的欧洲肤色和面相这一事实仅反映了几个世纪以来有限的杂交(与肤色更公平的犹太人相同)。 这种杂交是否是由于绑架欧洲儿童、强奸、相互同意等原因,尚有待商榷。

    从作者在以下内容中所写的内容来看:吉普赛驱逐。 如果在这些时期有相当多的吉普赛妇女被强奸,我不会感到惊讶。 没有来自自己的支持和牲畜的法律地位。 这可以解释很多金发和很多蓝眼睛。

  158. @Bardon Kaldian

    看这个照片。 在他们的 T 恤上阅读。 “我是罗姆人,我是英国人,我会留下来。” 用英语用红色写成,用罗姆语用黑色写成。 他们不是爱尔兰人。

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/feb/11/patronising-and-totally-false-my-despair-at-tv-about-gypsies-a-very-british-history-bbc

    • 回复: @Bardon Kaldian
  159. Sollipsist 说:
    @raga10

    是的,“天才”被过度使用了。 他是牛顿还是伽利略? 当然不是。 我什至不喜欢称任何制作音乐的人为“艺术家”的习惯。

    当涉及到一般的音乐,特别是吉他时,我只是结合了天赋、技能,尤其是创新(另一个被过度使用到失去意义的词)。

    在他相对较短的职业生涯中,Django 几乎发明了一种完全不同的风格和风格,人们花了几十年的时间试图掌握这种风格和风格。 我会把他和安德烈斯·塞戈维亚(Andrés Segovia)和其他极少数人放在一起。 对于这样的人来说,可能有比“天才”更好的词,但它足够好用。

    • 回复: @frankie p
  160. @Larry Romanoff

    让我解决这个论点。

    遗传学家 Razib Khan 分析了数据并得出以下结论。 见下文。

    https://www.brownpundits.com/author/razib-khan/

    从整体上看,罗姆人的血统约为 30% 的南亚人(一些群体和个人接近 50%,其他人接近 20%).

    罗姆人平均有 30% 是南亚人,但他们的比例在 20-50% 之间。

    基本上,他们是混血儿。 他们是南亚和欧洲血统的混合体。 正如我们所料,他们通常比南亚人更轻,但比欧洲人更黑。 在他们的种群中,外观存在差异。 所以有些人看起来像印度人,有些人看起来像欧洲人,而且大多数人看起来都是混合的。

    如果你画一条从印度到欧洲东南部的线(这是罗姆人走的路),中点大致在土耳其或伊朗。 有趣的是,当你看到典型的罗姆人时,他们的身体有点像土耳其人或伊朗人。

    如果您假设地理和表型都与祖先大致相关,那么罗姆人(他们在从印度到巴尔干半岛的旅程中吸收了重要的 DNA)看起来是土耳其人或伊朗人是有道理的。

    应该指出的是,罗姆人绑架儿童用作乞丐在历史上很常见。 罗姆妇女也有很长的妓女/舞者历史。 所以这很可能是吸收外部血统的渠道。

    下面的视频值得一看。 在视频中,您可以感受到强烈的东欧和“东方”影响。 音乐可能听起来很奇怪,但它反映了东南欧和前苏联黑暗地区的文化。 在世界的那个地方,两种文化奇怪地融合在一起。 这很花哨,但以一种异国情调的方式很有趣。

    顺便说一句,英国有一群土著欧洲白人吉普赛人。 他们被称为“爱尔兰旅行者”。 虽然他们和罗姆人一样不诚实和功能失调,但他们缺乏“东方”的神秘主义和黝黑的外表。 许多人做流动劳动,同时进行诈骗。 我父亲实际上被一些“旅行者”欺骗了。 见下文。

  161. Bro43rd 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    由于罗马、希腊、意大利和俄罗斯对南亚的征服,欧洲基因有可能被纳入印度血统。 这可能会通过战利品发生,但也可能会发生在军队作为地方法官被留下并且帝国最终崩溃的情况下。 亚历山大大帝不是征服了印度和巴基斯坦西北部的部分地区吗? 类似于美洲印第安人拥有与亚洲人一样多的欧洲标记。

    https://dnaconsultants.com/native-americans-deep-ancestry-europe-yes-official/

  162. profnasty 说:

    波士顿市长是
    米歇尔吴。
    让它陷入片刻。
    米歇尔,,,,,,吴。
    行。 现在你知道了。
    你是FKT。

    • 回复: @Sir Launcelot Canning
  163. TRM 说:

    Peter Maas(The Valechi Papers、Serpico 等)就这个主题写了一本名为“吉普赛人之王”的书。 很好的阅读,因为它是一个内部视图。

    我最喜欢的部分是当他被告知“有 5 颗钉子是给耶稣的,一个吉普赛人为了他的心脏偷了一颗,所以他允许吉普赛人偷走”。 他回答说“圣经里没有”,他的回答是严肃的“你在说哪部圣经?” 哈哈

    只需根据您的需要进行调整即可。

  164. Tony_0pmoc 说:

    这个世界上最好的人,我见过的都是难民。 二战后在英格兰奥尔德姆,我和难民的孩子一起长大。 有些来自爱尔兰,但与我一起长大的大多数难民来自东欧——波兰、匈牙利等

    我知道这些名字并不像我这样传统上罕见的法国人——这也让我成为了难民,除了我从未经历过战争。

    我很幸运能够周游世界,经常只带着一个帆布袋和我的女儿,据我所知,她的英文姓氏可以追溯到亨利八世之前(她的祖母说她是公主)和任何人一样都是英国人。

    她说跟我来。我当时没有工作,但我有车..(我们有点瘦)

    我们遇到了很多嬉皮士(吉普赛人)——巨石阵 82.83.84 和 85

    我们试图进入 1985 年——宾菲尔德之战

    我们很高兴。 仍然是。 我们旅行。 我们露营。 仍然会去很多便宜的节日,如果他们只更新我们的护照,他们会在英国以外的地方再次这样做。 但现在需要 10 周时间,直到英国政府护照办公室计算机说——这比你上一张照片有了很大的改进。

    “我们会在接下来的几天内通知您”

    我们正试图离开英格兰,但仍想回来

    我现在快 70 岁了。 以前从来没有过这种废话。

    从我还是个小男孩的时候就开始旅行了。

    我不戴口罩,也不会被戳。

    我没有被洗脑。 我不看电视,也不看脸书和推特,也不看战争。

    我们都是天生的金发女郎,我们的头发在阳光下变得更加金色,而我们的皮肤则变成了真正的棕色。 我将我手臂的颜色与我的伴侣进行比较,她的妈妈出生在牙买加,并且确实在一个非常古老的传统马拉、装饰精美的木制大篷车中长大。

    他几乎没有接受过传统教育,大约在 17 岁时,他选择了成为一名 IT 专业人士。 连他现在都受不了了。 我老婆说他有女朋友了。 我们现在往往在葬礼上见面。

    托尼

  165. @JohnnyWalker123

    辣妹,但让我告诉你如何在板条箱中挖掘。 听听这个!

    • 哈哈: JohnnyWalker123
  166. 整体来说很离谱。

    几十年前,《科学美国人》发表了一篇关于 Gundestrup Cauldron 的评论,其中建议它是由吉普赛人在公元一世纪制造的,也就是说,来自印度的旅行金属工人。 建议是,他们可能自青铜时代就已经存在并负责金属加工技术的传播。

    • 回复: @Joe Paluka
  167. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    拉里您关于捷克语(没有波西米亚语)与梵语相似性的猜测只是球。 确实有这样的词 德瓦, 意思是女孩或 科学 对于那些懂一点梵文但还有很多其他词的人来说,这可能看起来很熟悉,比如 斯洛卡 19 世纪,那些寻找异国情调的语言学家将其纳入捷克语。 很多,只是巧合,就像我自己的姓氏一样,在梵文中有一定的含义。

    我们在学校了解到,所谓的法国波希米亚人是15世纪胡斯战争期间,即1415年之后被驱逐出波希米亚的吉普赛人。也许,你从未听说过这种可能性。

    毫无疑问,吉普赛人来自印度。 在泰米尔纳德邦旅行期间,我可以看到他们在所有主要寺庙中到处乞讨,例如在 Kanchipuram 的 Kailasanathar 寺。 他们很容易通过华丽的连衣裙和过量的金色珠宝来识别。 他们的肤色比典型的当地泰米尔人要浅得多,看起来很像欧洲的吉普赛人。

  168. 在欧洲大部分地区,吉普赛人被称为 Tsigane/Zigeuner。 词源来自中世纪希腊语 tsigganos,缩写为拜占庭希腊语 adigganos,athigganos '异端教派成员',字面意思是'不想被触摸的'. 那些吉普赛人是来自印度的贱民种姓,完全被排斥在外。 有大量语言证据表明它们来自印度,尤其是“shiv”这个词,意思是匕首,这无疑来自“Shiva”,毁灭之神。 看看西班牙的弗拉门戈舞,你就会发现与印度舞的相似之处。 吉普赛人是来自印度的最低种姓和被排斥者。

    • 同意: 3g4me
  169. Z-man 说:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    你还没有遇到过黑人爱尔兰人或女孩。
    顺便说一句,感谢跳舞吉普赛人的剪辑。

  170. 感谢您就一个难以捉摸的主题发表这篇引人入胜的文章。

    我遇到的唯一“被证实”的吉普赛人是在英国,他们本可以作为凯尔特人过去的,具有良好的特征。
    那个向我要零钱的人有一头姜黄色的头发和绿色的眼睛。
    尽管如前所述,他们可能是爱尔兰旅行者,伪装成吉普赛人。
    另一种可能性是,几个世纪前的种族清洗导致所有肤色较深的吉普赛人被灭绝或驱逐出境。

    我可能在西班牙遇到过吉普赛人,但很难将他们与其他西班牙人区分开来。
    我拿起了一些有趣的刀,我想它们叫卡拉卡。 他们在打开时会发出“咯咯”的声音,这是为了恐吓任何离他们营地太近的人。
    供应商可能再次只是冒充吉普赛人,在适当的情况下对业务有利。

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  171. @JohnnyWalker123

    还有一种观点认为,四肢骨折的乞讨儿童和妓女是/是被盗的儿童,而不是核心吉普赛人。 甚至有人认真对待玛德琳麦肯(英国著名的虐待儿童)被吉普赛人带走。

  172. @JohnnyWalker123

    这是一个了不起的贡献。 谢谢你。

    看来我们昨天的“吉普赛人”现在已经被重新分类,并最终被放入了三个不同的垃圾箱。 我们有“旅行者”,他们有时被认定为爱尔兰人,但他们似乎只是当地的流动者,但这似乎是一个需要身份证明的大群体。

    在这种情况下,我会对“吉普赛人”和“罗姆人”的流行定义感兴趣。 有没有可能吉普赛人从印度迁移,而罗姆人是欧洲人,而旅行者来自丁格尔或利默里克?

    爱尔兰部分非常好奇。 为什么在其他地方似乎没有人这样做时,爱尔兰会发展出这样一个群体? 这不可能是对暂时压迫的永久回应,对吧?

    • 回复: @John Johnson
    , @Daniel H
    , @Ed Case
  173. 与普遍的看法相反,美国确实有吉普赛人。

    事实上,他们能够在一定程度上不受惩罚地运作,因为新闻界的自由主义者不会把他们叫出来,对于小镇报纸来说也是如此。 只有在警方参与的广泛诈骗中才会提及他们的背景。 在这些情况下,记者会添加一篇关于他们如何受到压迫的评论文章,即使警方正在寻找其中的一伙,某些刻板印象当然也完全不正确。

    他们最明显的骗局是和孩子一起乞讨并表现得很饥饿。 他们会将自己描述为南非或墨西哥移民,但如果被接近,他们将一言不发。 如果被问到太多问题,他们会继续前进并在其他地方设置他们的骗局。 这些乞讨骗局通常设置在有游客的地区附近。 欧洲游客认为他们是在向美国种族主义者拒绝帮助的贫穷墨西哥人提供帮助,而事实上他们正在落入吉普赛乞丐手中。 美国的南美/墨西哥女性不需要乞求,通常认为这种做法是可耻的。 他们为他们提供了大量的公共/私人服务。

    众所周知,吉斯皮人会在全国各地开车并进行家庭维修诈骗。 他们同意房主的价格,然后在第二天离开或只完成部分工作。 他们也表现得好像他们是非法的并正在寻找诚实的工作。

    这些人还将在公众场合演奏音乐,假定的孩子或家人在旁边待命。 这意味着他们迫切需要任何类型的收入来养家糊口。 这当然是一个谎言,他们只是在寻找几个小时的捐款。 他们已经学会了穿得有些墨西哥人,但他们不会说西班牙语。 只需询问他们在西班牙语中的表现如何即可确认。

    得克萨斯州拥有大量吉普赛人,以全国性的家庭维修诈骗而闻名。 他们也允许童婚,但我们的政府拒绝调查他们。

  174. @karel

    “拉里你关于捷克语(没有波西米亚语)与梵语相似性的猜测只是球。”

    这不是我的猜测。 阅读文中引用的大西洋文章。

    [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/02/the-origin-of-the-gypsies/627983/

    博学的 Büsching 说:“吉普赛语是瓦拉几亚语、斯拉夫语、匈牙利语和其他国家的腐败词的混合体。” 这些是斯拉夫种族的同源语言,都来自同一个来源,这也是切赫语的来源。

    吉普赛人的肤色、习惯和性格与切赫人的相似,与印度人的相似。 切赫人是一个非常同性恋和音乐的种族。 至于肤色,据发现,奥地利军队中的吉普赛人被迫放弃了他们的野蛮生活并住在房子里,他们和欧洲人一样白。

    考虑到这个问题只是印度和波希米亚之间的问题,在我看来,这个论点完全支持从波西米亚派生吉普赛人。”

    甚至不检查这个人的来源和凭据,我们怎么能断然驳回他和他的学识观察? 我们这样做的动机是什么?

    • 回复: @karel
  175. panju 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    你的文章让我想起了人们(他们当时被称为 GaDolias),我们每年或两年都会看到他们总是乘坐牛车在 300-400 人的团队中旅行,并在城外扎营 2-3 个月. 他们用来制作铁制厨房工具,挨家挨户卖给当地人,然后离开。 我记得价格非常低,人们习惯于等待他们的到来。

    关于他们的故事是,他们是印度拉贾斯坦邦 Chittorgarh 堡垒的拉杰普特国王 Rana Sanga 的步兵。 当穆斯林入侵者巴布尔(15 世纪)击败当地国王时,这些步兵宣誓“他们永远不会睡在床上,永远不会住在永久的房子里等(与文章的开头几行非常相似),直到他们心爱的 Chittorgarh 堡垒没有再次获得他们的藏红花('Bhagwa')旗帜”。 忠实于他们的誓言,这些敬业、诚实和贫穷的人已经从拉贾斯坦邦分散到印度北部/巴基斯坦和其他地区的各个地区。

    独立后,政府多次尝试重新安置这些穷人。 最后,达成协议。 也许我童年最美好的回忆是,当我父亲问我是否想在 1955 年(或者可能是 1956 年?)看到奇托尔加尔的一个历史性事件,看看所有 Gadolia 男性的大量(数十万)穿着像结婚派对来自印度许多地方的客人戴着五颜六色的头巾,目睹尼赫鲁先生(当时的印度总理)在这座堡垒取下印度国旗并升起旧的拉杰普特藏红花旗,让这些人开心。 是的,对于一个小孩来说,这绝对是一生一次的经历。

    来到西方这里,我才读到吉普赛人的故事,一直想知道他们是否与拉贾斯坦邦那些高尚诚实的步兵有关。

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_Sanga

  176. Anonimko 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    又有倡导者 [电子邮件保护],谁推动了世界历史上最原始的群体,至今仍是人类文明的黑洞。 没有自己的历史和语言的乌克兰人(='边境地区人民')的复本,他们只憎恨塞尔维亚人(或俄罗斯人)。

    当然,期望那些只知道仇恨的人提出任何论点(或反驳)是虚幻的。 塞尔维亚人是拥有最古老语言的土著欧洲人这一事实(经常被压制)对于仍然拥有祖先的塞尔维亚基因并且只有 20 至 30 年历史的梵蒂冈构造来说确实很痛苦。

    因此,如果在 Lepenski Vir/Vincha(12000 年前)中发现了与诺瓦克·德约科维奇相同的基因,我们可以说至少诺瓦克的祖先是欧洲土著人。

    PS:再匈牙利人——考虑到他们中的大多数实际上是同化的土著塞尔维亚人,他们可以被视为斯拉夫人,他们在 1848 年开始残酷的同化之前占多数。 这与保加利亚的情况相似,只是在这种情况下,土著塞尔维亚人(在语言和宗教上)同化了少数传入的亚洲穆斯林保加利亚人。 罗马尼亚人(如摩尔达维亚人)也可以被视为斯拉夫人; 它们是由耶稣会士在 19 世纪下半叶人工建造的,作为一个独立的国家,使用一种人工语言。

    • 回复: @Bardon Kaldian
  177. 只是一个想法:

    有没有人认为罗马尼亚的罗姆人与吸血鬼在德古拉城堡的明显消失之间可能存在联系? 只是问问。

  178. @Boo

    他们当然是印度人。 我是印度人,他们看起来像我见过的一百万印度人。 你是认真的,你看不到相似之处吗? 并不是所有的印度人都长得像阿普——那些来自遥远北方的人可能非常像吉普赛人。 此外,该语言有大量可识别的印度单词。

    印度本身就有大量的吉普赛人。 他们看起来很像欧洲的人,并且有着非常相似的习俗。 为什么作者不讨论这个? 我会说他对实际主题知之甚少。 这种联系很难否认。

    • 同意: simple mind
    • 回复: @John Johnson
    , @simple mind
  179. Odyssey 说:

    “吉普赛语是瓦拉几亚语、斯拉夫语、匈牙利语和其他国家的腐败词的混合体。” 这些是斯拉夫种族的同源语言,都来自同一个来源,这也是切赫语的来源。”

    前面的说法是对的。 同样的来源是——塞尔维亚语。 古代塞尔维亚语于公元前 2000 年由雅利安人带到印度,当地版本成为梵语。 即使是现在,梵语和现代塞尔维亚语之间仍有数千个相同(22%)或非常相似(11%)的词。 印度和南亚也有数以千计的塞尔维亚地名。 因为,吉普赛语中也有一些来自梵语的词。 此外,雅利安人将类似于古老的塞尔维亚(即原始斯拉夫)神话的吠陀神话带到了印度。 吉普赛人将其中一些习俗带回了欧洲,因为有些人错误地认为吉普赛人与斯拉夫人有遗传关系。

    PS:Re – Roma、吸血鬼、德古拉……我们应该知道,德古拉(Vlad Tepes the Impaler)是当时大多数罗马尼亚人的塞尔维亚人。 “罗马尼亚”这个词只有大约 160 年的历史。 有人试图将罗马尼亚描述为退役罗马士兵的国家(梵蒂冈的“东拉丁人计划”,作为他们向东方进军的一部分,我们仍在目睹)。 还应该知道,“吸血鬼”是一个被全世界接受的塞尔维亚语词,因此是其创始人给罗马市的原名(>Ruma)。

    • 不同意: Malla
    • 回复: @Rahan
  180. @Larry Romanoff

    爱尔兰部分非常好奇。 为什么在其他地方似乎没有人这样做时,爱尔兰会发展出这样一个群体? 这不可能是对暂时压迫的永久回应,对吧?

    据我所知,旅行者在基因上倾向于某些行为。 这并不是说爱尔兰人从未试图帮助他们。 具有讽刺意味的是,大西洋两岸的白人都认为对方在与少数族裔打交道时缺乏同理心。

    这是现代社会无法解决的问题。 如果一个寄生的少数群体实际上选择了道德等特征以促进自身发展,会发生什么?

    这在基因层面上是完全有可能的,但仅仅是暗示当然是非常忌讳的。

    在您听到与他们打交道的第一手资料之前,旅行者听起来像是受压迫的少数群体。 美国的情况非常相似,白人认为所有黑人问题都是外在的,直到他们真正花时间解决这些问题。

    • 同意: 3g4me, Irish Savant
  181. Mactoul 说:
    @Malla

    这根本不是班加拉音乐,也不是班加拉营地。
    音乐是伪阿拉伯语,歌词 Mehbooba 在阿拉伯语中的意思是情人。
    吉普赛歌手和舞者的服装模仿了欧洲吉普赛风格。
    绝不是正宗甚至半正宗的印度班加拉。

  182. Malla 说:
    @Malla

    链接说她来自阿拉哈巴德

    顺便说一句,我的曾祖父和祖父住在阿拉哈巴德。 我的曾祖父在英国是一位著名的律师,而我的祖父是同一个城市的高等法院法官,她来自。 尽管我不是婆罗门,而是 Kayastha(上层种姓),但我有两种性别的亲戚,他们看起来比她更像高加索人。

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  183. @Libertarian66

    印度本身就有大量的吉普赛人。 他们看起来很像欧洲的人,并且有着非常相似的习俗。 为什么作者不讨论这个? 我会说他对实际主题知之甚少。 这种联系很难否认。

    我看不出试图在印度区分它们有什么意义。 他们完全符合其他诈骗种姓和公众的看法,即使是最卑鄙的做法,比如残废儿童进行非法捐赠。 对印度教徒来说,乞讨孩子的单身生活基本上是毫无意义的,因为无论如何你都在一条宇宙道路上。 可能在过去的生活中做了一些事实上值得的事情。

    印度的吉普赛人不是一些价值观完全超出规范的外部群体。 只是在一个王室被搞砸的国家中的另一个种姓。

    即使是最平等/自由的白人也永远不会回到印度。 事实上,没有什么比印度之旅更能削弱反白人全球主义的毒药了。 我知道一个家庭因为这个原因把他们的女儿送到了第三世界,她对公立学校/媒体的白人内疚立即得到了治愈。 她最美好的记忆是在公共渡轮上被一个身高 5 英尺 1 的男子干掉了。

    • 谢谢: 3g4me
    • 回复: @raga10
  184. Richard B 说:
    @Fisk Ellington Rutledge IV

    犹太人目前最大的骗局是说服白人崇拜黑人,同时将黑人和其他非白人武装起来对抗白人。

    恰当的例子:看看这段菲利普亚当斯谋杀案的犯罪视频(如果你能忍受的话)。 这实际上是一封写给他的情书。 评论区也一样。

    但是对于许多人来说,这个模板很容易被发现 TUR 读者,即; 不到一分钟的时间花在受害者或受害者的家人身上,并且仅足以表示宽恕(不允许愤怒*)。 视频的其余部分用于为凶手的行为辩护。

    但是这个视频真的超越了。 事实上,这实际上是一种模仿。
    再一次,在荒唐的时代,模仿与现实之间的界线常常被模糊了。

    *对于国际犯罪企业 犹太至上公司. 为了生存,他们绝不能让他们指定的替罪羊(在这种情况下是白人)表现出愤怒。 因为愤怒是引发革命的情绪。 这就是为什么只有他们和他们的代理人和有用的白痴才可以生气。 在他们的情况下,一种愤怒是为了证明他们对权力的贪得无厌的欲望而制造的。

    这可以解释他们对仇恨恶作剧的依赖。

  185. Joe Paluka 说:
    @Philip Owen

    这里有一篇文章说 Gundestup Cauldron 于 1891 年在丹麦被发现。它说这具 2000 年历史的 Cauldron 可能是色雷斯人在保加利亚地区制造的,因为其设计与他们当时所做的相似。

    https://en.natmus.dk/historical-knowledge/denmark/prehistoric-period-until-1050-ad/the-early-iron-age/the-gundestrup-cauldron/the-dating-and-origin-of-the-silver-cauldron/

  186. Malla 说:
    @Sollipsist

    你听起来像是在业余时间想了很多关于黑人的事情。

    不要怪他,西方媒体强迫人们对“天才黑人”进行大量思考。 当我年轻的时候,在印度看西方媒体时,我真的相信黑人都是天才和无辜的,被嫉妒的怀特压制住了。 在该死的印度,我被好莱坞、西方连续剧和 MTV 洗脑。 BBC World、CNN、France 24 是关于即将到来的伟大的“非洲复兴”,我想知道为什么 BBC World,尤其是 France 24 不将自己更名为非洲频道。 但在西方现实生活中遇到黑人让我感到震惊。 恰恰相反。 人们怎么能在这种现实与媒体宣传之间的认知失调中生活这么长时间,这超出了我的理解。 好吧,我对媒体失去了信心。 并为此感谢上帝。

  187. @profnasty

    提示 Steely Dan 的“Are You With Me Dr. Wu”。

    • 哈哈: profnasty
  188. Joe Paluka 说:

    不,我个人不知道,但太多的体育迷和音乐人喜欢。

  189. @Larry Romanoff

    真正的弗拉德是一个坏蛋,他利用他们的信仰来刺穿和恐吓穆斯林入侵者。 这在当时被许多Good Whites视为不道德的,但作为一种策略实际上是功利主义的,并且是寡不敌众的结果。

    https://www.crisismagazine.com/2021/standing-with-vlad-the-impaler

    Bram Stoker 把他变成了吸血的食尸鬼,真可惜。

    • 回复: @Malla
  190. Dream 说:
    @Fisk Ellington Rutledge IV

    你忘了提到“可萨人”实际上是德系犹太人。 我们这个时代的基本谎言之一是,当前的犹太人口是希伯来人,而他们实际上是突厥人。 犹太人与巴勒斯坦的联系为零。 非犹太人犯下的最严重错误之一是允许犹太人从其合法所有者那里窃取巴勒斯坦。 Arthur James Balfour 有很多要回答的问题。

    为什么反以色列的反犹分子如此迟钝? 大多数以色列犹太人不是德系犹太人。 以色列的大多数犹太人来自中东、北非、印度、埃塞俄比亚等。在以色列,米兹拉希(中东)犹太人的数量超过了阿什纳兹犹太人(3.2 万对 2.8 万)。 在苏联解体之前,以色列犹太人中德系犹太人的比例不到 30%。

    德系犹太人,就像他们的欧洲白人兄弟一样,是投给左翼政党的自杀式自由主义者。 具有自我保护本能并投票右翼的是非白人犹太人。 有趣的是,西方左翼分子指责以色列犹太人是种族主义殖民者,而事实上,最讨厌穆斯林的是非白人犹太人。

    • 谢谢: simple mind
    • 回复: @John Johnson
  191. 对于信息,我相信这是对欧洲罗姆人的原始 DNA 研究。 它最初于 2012 年 152 月出版,对来自欧洲东部、西部和北部的 13 个罗姆人群体的 XNUMX 人进行了调查。

    这项研究并不像一些人想象的那么黑白分明,但它确实有力地表明,罗姆人——他们未定义——在大约 1,500 年前进行了大规模的大规模移民,到达巴尔干半岛,并从巴尔干半岛再次大规模迁移到大约 900 年前的欧洲其他地区。

    报告指出,“所有欧洲罗姆人群体(威尔士罗姆人除外)都出现在同一个分支上,没有任何非罗姆人欧洲群体,这表明欧洲罗姆人有着共同的共同起源。” (1)

    (1) https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(12)01260-2
    从全基因组数据重建欧洲罗曼人的人口史

  192. @karel

    英语中的捷克语长期以来被称为波西米亚语,捷克人被称为波西米亚人,指的是他们的国家名称——波希米亚。 捷克语与俄语有关,俄语与梵语接近。 但是作者用这种轻松的方法证明了不可能证明他是错的——他处于后真相的土地上,事实和他的观点是否不匹配似乎并不重要。 他似乎相信吉普赛人是可萨部落的后裔,他还认为蓝眼睛的匈牙利人是蒙古人的后裔。

    所以在这一点上,我确实觉得这个讨论毫无意义。 更不用说需要像受过教育的语言学家那样的能力,才能根据词汇的相似性做出合理的结论,而且不参考人种学和历史信息来确定先有鸡还是先有蛋也是不可能的。 . 然而,我们手头有基因研究和语言研究,他们都毫无疑问地断言罗姆人,即吉普赛人起源于印度,乌拉尔是匈牙利人的故乡。

    俄语中有大量的借词。 其中一些来自吉普赛人使用的罗姆语。 按照作者的逻辑,我们现在可以假设俄罗斯人可能是吉普赛人的后裔,或者相反。 同样,我们可以指出,俄语中的很多单词与梵语中的相应单词具有相同的词根、发音和含义,因此俄罗斯人也有可能来自印度。 甚至来自吉普赛人。 甚至来自犹太人,因为有一些从意第绪语借来的词。

    这些应该是原始的印度教罗马人。

    [更多]
    并期待一个关键的反应,这里是一个受人尊敬的参考。

    梵文和俄文:古代血缘关系
    https://www.rbth.com/blogs/2014/11/01/sanskrit_and_russian_ancient_kinship_39451

    根据 Rishi 的说法,这两种语言之间的关系非常密切,而且这两种语言之间的对应关系非常微小,不能仅仅归因于偶然。 “事实使我们得出结论,在某个历史时期,梵语和俄语的使用者住得很近。”

    梵语和俄语之间惊人的相似之处清楚地表明了这两个国家在遥远的过去之间有着密切的血缘关系。 这可以解释为什么印度人和俄罗斯人与其他任何国家相比如此容易相处。 因为两国是皮下的姐妹。

    • 回复: @karel
    , @Skeptikal
  193. Malla 说:
    @John Johnson

    Bram Stoker 把他变成了吸血的食尸鬼,真可惜。

    Christian Whitey 有自杀倾向。 在大多数其他文化中,弗拉德·泰皮斯国王将被称为伟大的英雄。 整个基督教欧洲都应该庆祝他,一直到冰岛。 但是克里斯蒂安·怀特错误地认为友善和自我批评会改变敌人的心。 它最多只有 2% 到 5% 的时间起作用,在一个完美的宇宙中它会更有效,但在这个宇宙中,它所导致的只是敌人想要更多的让步。

  194. Odyssey 说:

    与前南斯拉夫(和西欧)的天主教徒部分不同,塞尔维亚对所有少数民族更加宽容。 包括吉普赛人。 游牧的吉普赛人并不多,他们中的大多数人已经定居,许多人有一些固定的工作。 可能 80% 以上的人有穆斯林名字,但他们也参加了融入基督教的春季异教节日(Djurdjevdan – 圣乔治)。

    塞尔维亚政府试图刺激她们接受更多的教育并增加女孩的入学率,因为她们通常很早就结婚了。 他们也被鼓励参与体育和政治。 获得大学学位的吉普赛人并不多,但他们在娱乐中的表现尤为突出,尤其是演奏/演唱吉普赛音乐。 但也有受过认真音乐教育的人的例子。 有两个例子,一个是一个(漂亮的白人)吉普赛女孩,一个吉普赛乐队用塞尔维亚语唱歌,一个吉普赛小提琴手在世界各地演出:

    乌斯尼亚

    Nemanja Radulovic - 卡门在蒙特卡洛

    • 回复: @Rebel Roy
  195. Malla 说:
    @bwuce wee

    你写的在纸上看起来不错,但遗憾的是在实践中并没有达到应有的程度。 一个原因,为什么白人的负担失败了。 不幸的是,我们并不生活在一个完美的宇宙中,人类的行为也不是理性的。 西方基督教道德和启蒙理性主义的结合在一定范围内运作良好,但由于大众的人类行为大多不道德(尤其是在第三世界)且不理性,因此崩溃了。 这就是为什么西方(人口不是 ZOG)与非西方世界相混淆的原因。 印度某个村庄的一些聪明的老村长会嘲笑你的理想主义信仰,他们已经看到了生活。 他们相信血统和 DNA,地球上大多数保守的人都在某种程度上相信它。
    最好的实际解决方案是将自己与外来人口分开,并尽可能让他们独自一人。

    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  196. Dream 说:

    罗姆人大多看起来是棕色的,但在基因上是 65-70% 的欧洲人。

    如前所述(Font-Porterias 等人,2021 年),本研究中包含的罗姆人平均显示出欧洲和南亚全球血统比例的 68.4% 和 31.6%,标准差为 7%。

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2021.683880/full

    • 回复: @bispora
  197. Daniel H 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    显然,根据最近的基因调查,爱尔兰旅行者自 17 世纪以来基本上是内婚的。 猜测是由于克伦威尔战争,他们被赶出了这片土地。

    非常独立(当然,如果定居者如此愚蠢地提供救济,他们会接受救济)虔诚的罗马天主教徒(不排除诈骗和暴行)和性贞洁,尽管他们确实很早就结婚了。 他们蔑视安定和安定的生活。 人生转瞬即逝,何必为物质所困?

  198. Odyssey 说:
    @Malla

    您可能知道也可能不知道您提到的所有单词(dwi、tri、chatur 和 veda,如 rg)都是梵文/塞尔维亚语单词。 他们和雅利安人一起来到印度。 您来自高种姓的高加索亲戚表明他们的雅利安人血统。 我知道他们在 UP 中很有代表性。 甚至你的名字/化名也意味着 – little (f)(例如“一个小女孩”)。 看看(3 分钟)一些其他的词。 干杯!

    • 谢谢: Malla
    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  199. @Dream

    为什么反以色列的反犹分子如此迟钝? 大多数以色列犹太人不是德系犹太人。 以色列的大多数犹太人来自中东、北非、印度、埃塞俄比亚等。在以色列,米兹拉希(中东)犹太人的数量超过了阿什纳兹犹太人(3.2 万对 2.8 万)。 在苏联解体之前,以色列犹太人中德系犹太人的比例不到 30%。

    德系犹太人,就像他们的欧洲白人兄弟一样,是投给左翼政党的自杀式自由主义者。 具有自我保护本能并投票右翼的是非白人犹太人。 有趣的是,西方左翼分子指责以色列犹太人是种族主义殖民者,而事实上,最讨厌穆斯林的是非白人犹太人。

    阿什肯纳兹确实是少数,但他们统治着这个国家和所有主要政党,包括中右翼的利库德集团。

    以色列左派不像西方左派那样有自杀倾向。 他们不是全球主义者,也不推动开放边界。 支持一个穆斯林享有平等权利的国家被认为是以色列的极左立场。 以色列左派支持种族婚姻法(禁止结婚)和基于 DNA 的移民测试。 但不要指望《泰晤士报》或 Wapo 会提及这些。

    这是一个完全不同的环境。 以色列左派更接近日本左派,因为他们是民族主义的。 想要削弱白人并最终将他们培育出来的是美国/欧洲左翼。 他们意识到种族问题,不相信如果白人最终主宰它,工人的国家就不应该存在。 我有很多左翼人士完全承认,不会有全球种族平等,因为亚洲人将主导世界经济。 只要白人离开或至少在非白人多数人的控制下,他们就可以接受。 让左派私下承认这一点,真的不难。

    • 同意: Bardon Kaldian
    • 回复: @Dream
  200. @Here Be Dragon

    你是对的,这些不是爱尔兰旅行者。 它们甚至看起来很混杂,在视觉上也不是欧洲人。

  201. @Malla

    穿刺者弗拉德是罗马尼亚的民族英雄。 其他白人国家都有自己的杀手英雄,为什么要进口罗马尼亚杀手? 但是西方文化确实通过他们的虚假故事和电影贬低了弗拉德,他绝对是欧洲和基督教免受奥斯曼穆斯林入侵的最伟大的捍卫者之一,尽管还有很多鲜为人知但也许同样值得承认的人。

    • 同意: Alden
    • 回复: @Malla
  202. @Odyssey

    当您在地理上相距很远的两种语言中找到相同的单词时,您如何确定是谁从谁那里输入的? 就在这里,我们正在讨论来自印度的吉普赛人,所以也许他们将一些印度话带到了欧洲,然后被其他人采用。 在欧洲,凯尔特人遍布广大地区,所以也许有些词源于他们。 甚至诺曼人也出现在从英格兰到拜占庭以及意大利、西班牙、法国、北非,所以他们也可以传播一些话。 为什么一定是塞尔维亚人?

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
    , @Odyssey
    , @Malla
  203. @antitermite

    “完整的巴斯克”刀片锁(嘎嘎作响)在传统上非常常见
    西班牙餐具; 不允许农民携带 埃斯帕达
    (固定刀片 > 4 英寸,携带仍然是非法的)所以他们制作了文件夹 真实 大。
    什么是 一个女孩 Mack the Knife 佩佩要做😀?

    • 回复: @antitermite
  204. 法国一直在将吉普赛人驱逐/遣返到罗马尼亚和保加利亚。 为什么不把他们一路遣返印度呢? 自从欧盟向罗马尼亚和保加利亚开放边境以来,大多数法国吉普赛人在法国停留的时间要长得多。 许多法国吉普赛人参与了高级黑手党类型的犯罪,而不仅仅是像其他地方那样的轻微犯罪。

  205. Wielgus 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    卓别林的头发在变灰之前是深色的,有时人们声称他是犹太人。 但似乎他有一个吉普赛祖母。

  206. raga10 说:
    @John Johnson

    即使是最平等/自由的白人也永远不会回到印度。 事实上,没有什么比印度之旅更能削弱反白人全球主义的毒药了。

    我证明这一点! 像当时许多年轻的西方人一样,我去东方朝圣寻求启蒙——我找到了它,虽然不是我预期的形式:我带着对自己文化的新发现的欣赏回来了。

    至于印度,我总是说这是一次我真的很感激有过的经历,而且我绝对不想再重复一次。

    • 回复: @Malla
  207. Dream 说:
    @John Johnson

    以色列左派不像西方左派那样有自杀倾向。 他们不是全球主义者,也不推动开放边界。 支持一个穆斯林享有平等权利的国家被认为是以色列的极左立场。 以色列左派支持种族婚姻法(禁止结婚)和基于 DNA 的移民测试。 但不要指望《泰晤士报》或 Wapo 会提及这些。

    这是一个完全不同的环境。 以色列左派更接近日本左派,因为他们是民族主义的。 想要削弱白人并最终将他们培育出来的是美国/欧洲左翼。 他们意识到种族问题,不相信如果白人最终主宰它,工人的国家就不应该存在。 我有很多左翼人士完全承认,不会有全球种族平等,因为亚洲人将主导世界经济。 只要白人离开或至少在非白人多数人的控制下,他们就可以接受。 让左派私下承认这一点,真的不难。

    诚然,以色列左派不像西方左派那样具有自杀倾向,但按照非(欧洲/西方)标准,他们非常“清醒”。
    以色列左翼绝对不反对“异族通婚”——当以色列极右翼莱哈瓦抗议通婚时,以色列左翼分子聚集起来抗议他们。 虽然大多数以色列人——犹太人以及基督徒、穆斯林和德鲁兹人——反对通婚(1990 年代的美国白人也是如此),但彻底的反通婚情绪和政党被认为是极正确的。
    DNA 测试的故事被夸大或完全愚蠢——Mizrahim、Sephardim、Aschenazim、Bene Israel(印度犹太人)、埃塞俄比亚犹太人以及成千上万的东北印度“犹太人”(Bnei Menashe)基因不同,但都被允许移民到以色列——并被允许通婚。 以色列还有数十万非犹太外籍工人。

    您还会发现许多站在巴勒斯坦一边的以色列犹太人。 它是米兹拉希民族主义、更高的宗教信仰、大屠杀和以色列被敌国包围的结合,这将德系犹太人拉到了右边——但按照非西方标准,他们是非常左派/自由派的。

    • 回复: @John Johnson
  208. Rebel Roy 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    完全同意你的观点,这里是龙。不知道为什么拉里认为他们看起来像欧洲人,但事实并非如此。很容易看到他们反映了来自印度某些地区的人。也不确定拉里是如何如此确定他们的 DNA 时的显然是错的。我见过很多吉普赛人和很多印度人,他们很相配。我喜欢在他的文章中读到他们,但我觉得你在评论中所说的话与许多知识渊博的人的想法相符我尊重和重视谁的意见。很棒的评论。

    • 谢谢: Here Be Dragon
  209. Rebel Roy 说:
    @Odyssey

    漂亮的白人?你对漂亮白人女人长相的看法是扭曲的。仅仅因为她不是黑人,有非洲裔和巨大的嘴唇,并不能使她成为白人。你提到的那个女人很黑,头发和眼睛都是黑色的。看起来像突厥人我。当美国警方的预订将所有来自墨西哥、危地马拉等国的黑头发、黑眼睛的黑人都列为白人时,我感到非常生气。这是某种洗脑策略,因为他们显然不是任何意义上的白人。我认为犹太人洗脑者想用废话扰乱我们的思想,以至于我们短路。

    • 同意: Alden
  210. @JR Foley

    在第三帝国时期,一些吉普赛人不得不忍受除虱和教育。

  211. @Malla

    我也会说清楚伊朗人😉
    - 吉普赛人传说他们将在来世受到一只白狗的欢迎,这似乎很奇怪
    具体——有没有类似物?

  212. bispora 说:
    @Dream

    多么虚假的论点……
    西班牙吉普赛人和匈牙利音乐家吉普赛人或罗蒙格罗斯,是打破吉普赛人内婚制的两个成功例子。 玛丽亚·特蕾莎(Maria Theresa)以严厉的法律开始了流浪吉普赛人的定居。 本地化还意味着吉普赛人被带​​走在军队服役十年,而留在该地区的很大一部分吉普赛女孩不再被吉普赛人怀孕。 这个过程也在西班牙进行。 然而,在匈牙利,我们有两个高度同婚的吉普赛氏族——一个是 Beás Gypsy,另一个是 Oláh Gypsy 群体(他们在罗马尼亚作为奴隶劳工生活到 1800 年代中期)。 如果对这两组进行研究,结果将完全不同——正如吉普赛人的大量内婚遗传疾病所表明的那样。

  213. Jerry Rham 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    另一种可能性是罗姆人是东南欧的土著人,或者至少是其中的很大一部分。 他们可能根本不必“进入”这片土地,他们一直在那里,并且在公元 1200 年代后期人口增长很大,这就是为什么他们开始出现在欧洲其他地区的原因。

    斯拉夫人接管了东欧和东南欧的大部分地区,但这并不意味着那里之前没有土著居民。 您说得对,遗传学并不完全清楚,照片也不完全清楚,这对于罗姆人的起源仍然是一个悬而未决的问题。

    • 哈哈: Boo
    • 回复: @bispora
  214. j1 说:
    @Sir Launcelot Canning

    老鼠药连老鼠都杀不了,更别说人了

  215. @Dutch Boy

    当她就此质问他时,他抗议说他被迫搬家是因为苏里南人在公寓里养鸡。

    苏里南人,我的 Neezy。

  216. bispora 说:
    @Jerry Rham

    另一种可能是 Romanoff 的文章是胡说八道。 欧洲吉普赛人的西北印度血统已被 hpalogroup 标记完美地证实。他们在穆斯林入侵期间于公元 1000 年左右逃离了祖先的土地并开始向欧洲迁移。 什么东西这么难理解?

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  217. Wielgus 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    匈牙利人偶尔有一些亚洲特征,特别是在该国的中部和南部,但这些地区在几个世纪以来一直处于奥斯曼帝国的控制之下,而且这样的人很可能在他们的祖先中有奥斯曼士兵或监督者。 这肯定不是来自他们遥远的西西伯利亚起源。 我怀疑他们有很多斯拉夫语、罗马尼亚语和南德血统——在语言上,第一个记录的匈牙利文本“葬礼誓言”中已经至少有一个斯拉夫语借词。

  218. 可悲的是,但预计这会变成“吉普赛人从哪里来”的评论。 说真的,谁在乎他们来自哪里? 当我在厨房里看到蚂蚁时,我不知道它们是从哪里来的,我只是喷洒它们然后继续我的一天。 历史告诉我们关于吉普赛人的唯一有用的事情是,自从他们被记录以来,他们一直是个麻烦。 几百年前,他们就像今天一样是小偷和骗子。 什么也没有变。

    “他们来自波希米亚”“他们来自印度”只是相互自慰,无助于解决问题。 对于那些“他们来自印度”的人,你为什么不建议我们把他们运到印度? 对我来说听起来是个不错的计划。 想成为历史学家的最大问题是他们被细节所困扰而完全忽视了大局。 我们的讨论应该是如何迫使我们的政府驱逐这种犯罪败类。

    • 同意: Alden, 3g4me
    • 回复: @Jerry Rham
  219. Bro43rd 说:
    @aandrews

    在我看来,那张照片是两个穿着运动胸罩的小个子。

    • 回复: @Rahan
  220. bwuce wee 说:
    @Malla

    您没有以任何方式、形式或方式回复我的文字,使您的回复成为无关紧要的咆哮。 我从来没有提到“白人的负担”——我不知道那是什么,因为我是美国原住民。 我不知道西安的道德是什么,因为我在过去的 52 年里都是佛教徒。 我说的是游牧吉普赛文化融入西方城市文明,你说的是石器时代的村民在嘲笑我??!!? 我有没有提到过一个完美的世界或一个完美的东西? 不。 如果一个人是非理性的或歇斯底里的,那么他们就犯了一个错误,让动物的反应来统治他们,而不是培养他们的理性思维过程。 还有我的信仰?!?! 我还没有讨论过我的任何信仰。 我讨论的是事实——信仰是宗教的领域,这里从未讨论过。 就理想主义而言,我的身体里没有理想主义的骨头。 你所做的基本上是回应我对你用点名的混乱咆哮的剖析,想象,像许多孩子一样,你可以通过点名来消除真相:你不能。 而且,我比你能在地球上任何地方找到的任何村长都聪明得多。 我从小就徒手捡响尾蛇,所以当我说你有自由意志并且必须学会理性而不是情绪化地行动时,如果你要成为一个成年人并同化,那就是经验知识——而不是谈话或信仰。 你愿意和我一起去猎蛇吗,squaw?

    • 哈哈: Bro43rd, Malla
    • 回复: @Malla
  221. Dimitrie 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    所有(或几乎)来自混合血统的欧洲吉普赛儿童都留在部落。 这就是吉普赛人逐渐变白的原因。 除了白色特征外,吉普赛人也很重视这些特征,这反而在成功传给新一代方面提供了优势。 关于被盗儿童的故事在某些情况下是真实的,但我认为这太夸张了。 对吉普赛基因库的形式没有任何影响。

    至少在罗马尼亚,有一个外国血统的社会类别被包括在“吉普赛”阶级(rudari)中。 事实上,他们与吉普赛人或职业没有任何种族联系,因为 rudari 是非常诚实和久坐不动的优秀工匠。 但无论如何,他们都被归入吉普赛人的行列,因为它更容易分类。

    旅行者也是如此。 最初,他们是在社会边缘幸存下来的被剥夺财产的爱尔兰人。 所有的流浪阶级(独立于他们的种族)都倾向于有相同的行为:不纯洁的职业、轻微的犯罪、肮脏的工作、为今天而活等等。他们被归为吉普赛人只是因为他们的职业。

    吉普赛人和罗姆人是一回事。 同一种族的两个名字。 虽然正确的名字是吉普赛人。 罗马这个名字是二十世纪后期吉普赛人的一项创新,因为“吉普赛人”这个名字让他们感到沮丧。 与法律格言相比,这是对他们自己的堕落的援引😀

    • 回复: @Alden
  222. @Larry Romanoff

    谢谢拉里,但我没有互联网链接——它在我的笔记本电脑上。

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  223. 从事传统活动的爱尔兰旅行者/小吃店!

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  224. bwuce wee 说:
    @Mefobills

    在二战之前,墨索里尼成立了 22 家公司来统治意大利:

    https://www.quora.com/Exactly-what-22-corporations-did-Mussolini-divide-Fascist-Italy-into

    1926 年,这些辛迪加的地位被立法规范化。 3 年 1926 月 XNUMX 日法律的基本思想是:

    [更多]

    (1) 会员的自愿性质。

    (2) 一旦一个辛迪加代表 10% 的从事该行业或专业的人,就会得到官方认可。

    (3) 被承认的辛迪加代表同一行业或专业的所有非成员的权利和义务。

    (4) 禁止罢工和停工,强制接受劳动法庭解决纠纷的决定。

    公司国家的目的不是通过将阶级合并为混合公司来压制阶级的身份。 在这些公司的框架内,雇主和雇员的辛迪加保留各自的身份。 每个公司——除了专业人士和艺术家——由两个全国联合会组成,一个代表雇主团体,另一个代表雇员团体。 以下是构成六家公司基础的十三大联邦的名单:

    (1) 农业公司:

    (a) 全国法西斯农民联合会

    (b) 全国法西斯农业集团联合会。

    (2) 工业公司:

    (a) 法西斯总工业联合会。

    (b) 全国法西斯工业集团联合会。

    (3) 商业公司:

    (a) 全国法西斯商业联合会。

    (b) 全国法西斯商业集团联合会。

    (4) 国内运输公司:
    (а) 全国法西斯内部通讯联合会。
    (б) 全国法西斯内部通讯集团联合会。
    (5) 海空运输公司:

    (a) 全国法西斯海空运输联合会。

    (b) 全国海员和飞行员法西斯集团联合会。

    (6) 银行保险公司:

    (a) 全国法西斯信用和保险联合会。

    (b) 全国银行和保险机构雇员法西斯集团联合会。

    (7) 全国法西斯职业男子和艺术家辛迪加联合会

    资料来源:Paul Einzig 的《法西斯主义的经济基础》

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  225. Jakie 说:
    @Anonymous

    简单而公正地看待他们的行为……和明显的文化时,这似乎很明显。

    他们假装无知和文盲……等等。

    欺骗那些完全认为他们正在与愚蠢的人打交道的局外人要容易得多。

    无知=愚蠢的经典人类“假设”。 罗马人都不是。

    不受约束的出色设置。

  226. Alden 说:
    @Boo

    这是关于吉普赛人为何离开印度的一个常见理论。这很有意义。
    当穆斯林征服了印度北部并皈依了大部分人口时,穆斯林政府面临着吉普赛人的问题。 一个强大的无数游牧种姓的罪犯。 显然,当地的印度教徒容忍了这种犯罪种姓。 但穆斯林不容忍他们。 对待吉普赛罪犯的方式与对待其他罪犯的方式相同。

    所以吉普赛人离开了印度,后来在美洲找到了更好的选择。 土耳其有一些。 但在阿拉伯穆斯林国家很少。

    • 谢谢: Humbert Humbert
  227. 当我还是个孩子的时候,经常听到一句“不要越过骨头,gypos会得到你”不用说,对孩子来说,这是一个挑战。 所以我们要去骨头。 吉普赛人会在荒地上扎营,然后男人们会前往贝尔法斯特寻找工作。 他们是迄今为止惊人的金属史密斯。 我们会和他们的孩子一起玩,打破“规则”很有趣,成年人怀有的种族主义和偏执在我们头顶上飞舞。

    干杯 M

    我是一个自由出生的人
    旅行的人中
    没有固定住所
    作为游牧民族,我们流浪
    每条高速公路和双路
    从来没有想过被编号。

  228. Alden 说:
    @Dimitrie

    关于被吉普赛人偷走的孩子。 其中一个被盗还给了他的父母。 那个孩子长大后成为著名经济学家亚当·斯密,他写了《国富论》。

    他的父母聘请了一名赏金猎人私家侦探,他找回了 3 岁的亚当。 因此,如果当时有调查员从事被绑架儿童的恢复工作,那么这些私人调查员肯定有足够的被绑架儿童来谋生。

    我在其中一场人为的车祸中成为吉普赛人的目标。 当我在十字路口中间时,他们撞到了我。 两个男人和一个女人看起来很黑。 男人们跳了出来,开始尖叫,大喊我欠他们钱。 我刚启动车就离开了。 他们跟着我走了几个街区然后离开了。

    当我把这件事告诉朋友和邻居时,我了解到附近发生了几起类似的事件。 有一次,好心人要求女受害者和他们一起去她的自动取款机,给他们吉普赛人要求的数千美元。 总是一个女人和两个吉普赛男人冲着她尖叫。

    然后吉普赛人消失了。

    我的车是白色的,他们的车是黑色的,两边都留下了一条黑色的条纹。 凹凸非常温和,没有凹痕或最轻微的压痕。 黑色的油漆被一块旧毛巾和擦洗粉弄掉了。 我什至不必使用洗碗刷,因为凹凸是如此温和,我以为我会撞到比萨饼盒或其他垃圾。

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
    , @Malla
  229. Mr. Grey 说:
    @Colin Wright

    我以为吉普赛这个词是从东罗马帝国出现的时候来的,拜占庭的希腊人认为他们是埃及人。 然后当吉普赛人进一步迁移到欧洲时,因为他们来自罗马尼亚(罗马,如拜占庭帝国,而不是现代罗马尼亚),他们拿起了“罗马”标签。

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  230. Alden 说:
    @bwuce wee

    纽约市的第一支警察部队是在 1620 年代由第一批荷兰定居者建立的,比爱尔兰天主教徒大规模迁移到纽约市早了 200 年。

    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  231. sarz 说:

    罗曼诺夫在他的头顶上说话。 我想知道他怎么上 unz.com.

    如果您想查看有关罗马与印度联系的基因研究,请访问 学者.google.com 并在搜索框中输入“罗马遗传学印度”之类的内容。

  232. @Mr. Grey

    “Rom”在罗马语中仅表示“人”(将我们这些凡人降级为
    状态有些不确定); 顺便说一句,与“因纽特人”和“阿拉帕霍人”相同
    即这是误译/人为的。
    别人给的名字有自己的问题(呵呵),但这只是小便
    狂奔。

  233. whew 说:

    否认他们起源的有力证据,然后因为最弱的证据(甚至很难称其为)而抛弃他们一定是捷克人,这很有趣。 作者一定是皮划艇。 但对于声称斯拉夫人是亚洲人的人来说,这并不令人惊讶的“逻辑”……

  234. @Dream

    诚然,以色列左派不像西方左派那样具有自杀倾向,但按照非(欧洲/西方)标准,他们非常“清醒”。
    以色列左派绝对不反对“异族通婚”

    以色列左派可以在通婚问题上假装任何立场,因为他们的婚姻法是与宗教有关的。 但是效果是一样的。

    例如,以色列犹太人不能嫁给天主教西班牙裔。

    从理论上讲,这是因为宗教,但最终的结果是政府促进了种族包容性。

    DNA 测试故事被夸大或完全愚蠢

    彻头彻尾的愚蠢? 这是获得公民身份的标准方法:

    https://pz-law.co.il/en/blog-en/repatriation-to-israel-via-a-dna-test/

    在发表评论之前,您可能需要在该领域进行更多研究。

    您还会发现许多站在巴勒斯坦一边的以色列犹太人。

    民意调查显示,他们是少数。

    我真的不在乎犹太人是否想要一个犹太国家。 伊斯兰教与其他宗教和西方世俗主义非常不相容。

    我的立场是,欧洲国家应该能够通过类似的法律,而不会被称为法西斯或极右翼。 如果一个法国或英国政党反对开放边界,它在全球主义媒体中被认为是极右翼。 以色列实际上对公民身份进行了种族 DNA 测试,大多数白人认为这是不可能的。 这是因为大多数白人已经被灌输相信种族不存在。

    • 回复: @Dream
  235. 一篇有趣且写得很好的文章,关于 MSM 拒绝调查的主题,但评论者是正确的,吉普赛人已通过 DNA 测试被追踪到印度:
    https://www.livescience.com/25294-origin-romani-people.html

    他们不是罗马尼亚人。

    平等主义者和左派实际上反对对他们进行 DNA 测试,因为他们担心欧洲人可能会发现他们已经知道的事实,即他们不是欧洲的分支。 很可能是离开印度或被驱逐的低种姓。

    • 回复: @Wielgus
  236. Wielgus 说:
    @Colin Wright

    来自 1974 年的耶尔马兹·居内 (Yılmaz Güney) 电影 朋友 (“朋友”)。 大约 4 点 25 分,两个主要角色去拜访吉普赛人,他们演奏音乐,而他们的几个年轻女性则表演一种淫荡的舞蹈。 对于在土耳其的野外散步,吉普赛人似乎被认为是一个不错的选择。
    然而,在外表上,吉普赛人看起来与其他土耳其人并没有太大的不同,尽管他们有时穿着更华丽。

  237. Anonymous[361]• 免责声明 说:

    传奇的卡门阿玛亚 (1913-1963)

  238. @Irish Savant

    还有希望。 去 https://tineye.com/

    上传您的照片,看看 Tineye 能否为您找到一些 Internet 链接。 它几乎总是如此。

    Tineye,如果您不熟悉它,它是一个图像反向查找站点。 给它一个图像,它会搜索互联网找到它。

  239. @Irish Savant

    天啊。 我的吉普赛传说中没有这样的东西。 了解这个小组是如何以及为什么成立的将会很有趣。 它似乎是真正的一种,显然是经久不衰的。

  240. @Alden

    “在其中一场人为的车祸中,我成为吉普赛人的目标。 当我在十字路口中间时,他们撞到了我。”

    这发生在何时何地? 哪个国家和城市,哪一年?

  241. Dream 说:
    @John Johnson

    以色列左派可以在通婚问题上假装任何立场,因为他们的婚姻法是与宗教有关的。 但是效果是一样的。

    例如,以色列犹太人不能嫁给天主教西班牙裔。

    从理论上讲,这是因为宗教,但最终的结果是政府促进了种族包容性。

    这与种族无关。 德系犹太人完全可以与印度或埃塞俄比亚犹太人结婚。 近 30% 的德系犹太人与米兹拉希斯结婚。 如果他们是犹太人,跨种族婚姻是完全合法的。

    彻头彻尾的愚蠢? 这是获得公民身份的标准方法:

    https://pz-law.co.il/en/blog-en/repatriation-to-israel-via-a-dna-test/

    在发表评论之前,您可能需要在该领域进行更多研究。

    无意义的。 来自中亚的德国人也可以根据他们的种族/民族移民到德国——这并不意味着非白人不能移民到德国。 德系犹太人、米兹拉希人、印度人、埃塞俄比亚人、藏缅犹太人在基因上是不同的——但所有人都被允许移民到以色列。 DNA 测试只是移民到以色列的众多方法之一。

    我的立场是,欧洲国家应该能够通过类似的法律,而不会被称为法西斯或极右翼。 如果一个法国或英国政党反对开放边界,它在全球主义媒体中被认为是极右翼。 以色列实际上对公民身份进行了种族 DNA 测试,大多数白人认为这是不可能的。 这是因为大多数白人已经被灌输相信种族不存在。

    以色列对所有种族的犹太人开放边界。 普通的以色列人也不相信种族。

    • 回复: @John Johnson
  242. Malla 说:
    @raga10

    您必须阅读 Arthur Koestler 的书 The Lotus and the Robot。 写可萨理论的犹太人。 在他到印度旅行,研究印度的灵性之后,他实际上开始欣赏西方。

    • 回复: @Peter Rabbit
  243. Malla 说:
    @Alden

    我在其中一场人为的车祸中成为吉普赛人的目标。 当我在十字路口中间时,他们撞到了我。 两个男人和一个女人看起来很黑。 男人们跳了出来,开始尖叫,大喊我欠他们钱。 我刚启动车就离开了。 他们跟着我走了几个街区然后离开了。

    大声笑,他们是南亚人好吗!!!

  244. Wielgus 说:
    @John Johnson

    罗姆语已被证明与印度北部的印度-雅利安语言有关。 这就是他们的来源。

  245. Malla 说:
    @bwuce wee

    我的美国原住民朋友,我理解你的观点。 我曾经也有类似的观点,但我对人性感到失望。 也许我错了。 让我们祝愿人类最好的。 抱歉,如果我的评论过于粗暴,也许是失望的苦涩。 我真诚的道歉。 即使是点击 LOL 按钮。

    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  246. Che Guava 说:
    @Lurker

    我不知道,我早期的高级英语教育大部分是 19 世纪和 20 世纪初的小说。 吉普赛人的出现,并不少见。

    总是像寄生虫一样。 有时作为小偷,这似乎一直是他们的习俗,直到最近。

    根据我最近读到的所有说法,如果一个人愚蠢到去罗马、巴黎、伦敦等地,吉普赛扒手无处不在,黑人和穆斯林都是暴力犯罪和盗窃的威胁。

    一位同事去了葡萄牙,她度过了愉快的时光,没有任何小偷小摸的企图。

    当然,她选择葡萄牙也是出于这个原因。 其他西欧国家非常清楚吉普赛人等群体的行为对其旅游业的影响有多么严重,人们只是远离。

    负责的西欧局永远不会报告号码丢失,但例如在
    至于吉普赛人,巴黎和罗马是不行的,何必去那么多人渣如此热衷于从你身上偷东西的地方,不管你需要与否,无论贫富。

    当然,我知道,黑人和穆斯林做同样的事情,但如果你在公共场所稍稍偏离,情况会更糟。

    所以,尽管有观点和艺术,建筑,最好完全避免这样的地方。

    ……东亚人正在用脚投票以避开这些地方。

    我读到南斯拉夫及其臀部国家,被北约、匈牙利和罗马尼亚预先摧毁,在某种程度上,整合了“罗姆”人口,FYSR 及其直接继任者似乎最成功,但我敢打赌,我的底线是大多数“罗姆人”已经离开,成为更西部的害虫。 也肯定会留下一些忠诚的和真正的同化者。

  247. bwuce wee 说:
    @Malla

    大声笑?-我对此没有问题。 我给你的答复是为了在辩论中训练你。 一个必须非常精确,因为辩论就像国际象棋,走错一步就完蛋了,不管你是否知道。 我们实际上是同意的,如果你让材料沉入其中而不是情绪化的反应。 当我描述刑罚制度时,我并不是理想主义,因为我解释说我根本不支持刑罚制度。 我认为罪犯应该为他们的罪行付出金钱,或者为他们的罪行被处决。 要么/或视情况而定。 监禁在自由社会中没有立足之地。 条款的矛盾。 和同化——我解释说多元文化主义只能摧毁一个社区、社会或文明——所以对于新来者来说要么是同化,要么是流放(这就是吉普赛人是游牧民族的原因——他们知道他们不会同化,这是文化自杀)——是否他们是难民或移民或其他什么。 如果你进入一个新的环境,如沙漠或丛林,“适应或死亡”也是一样。 这些是达尔文的原则,它们与人文主义哲学或宗教道德无关。 实用性和现实性是我论文的基础。 顺便说一句,我学习了《博伽梵歌》、《奥义书》、《吠陀经》、《罗摩衍那》等,并在我 10 岁时学习了瑜伽。 当我 50 多年前开始学习武术时,它对我很有帮助。 美洲原住民被视为和吉普赛人一样被看待和对待,但你会惊讶于有多少人被同化了。 我从来没有把我的遗产当作一面怪诞的旗帜,它只是我生命中必不可少的一部分,就像肝脏或肾脏一样……看不见,但至关重要。 请允许我给你一些建议,永远不要放弃或忘记你最早的想法、冲动、动机等,简而言之,不要为了新的道路而放弃旧路。 我的指导原则之一——就像盲人和大象的故事一样一直在指导我。

  248. Nick Bowen 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    我表弟和一个 FOB 罗姆女孩约会了十年左右。 在整个过程中,她从未工作过,甚至没有做过任何卑微的角色。 她过去每周在他家呆 5 天左右,他和父母住在一起,周末去帮助她母亲处理其他放学的兄弟姐妹。
    她有7个兄弟姐妹,她是第一个也是最年长的。 罗姆人拥有庞大的家庭,而不仅仅是每个家庭通常有 1-6 个孩子。 欧洲似乎确实有一堆废话,尽管英国在实行开放边境申根政策时所占的比例更大,我相信在他们脱欧之前就已经存在。
    不像随后几代移民,他们通常会减少他们有罗姆人的孩子的数量。 从第 7 代到第 x 代,他们不断有 9-1 个孩子。 欧盟对这些类型完全鲁莽,除了他们的上层种姓部落长老之外,想不出更糟糕的一群人。

  249. bwuce wee 说:
    @Drapetomaniac

    这是法西斯主义的另一个定义,我必须从 1996 年的字典中得到这个定义,因为互联网只希望宣传某些信息,并且如果任何敢于反对公司的东西被根除:法西斯主义:1.)由独裁者领导的政府系统镇压反对和批评的完全权力,对所有行业、商业等进行管理,并强调激进的民族主义和种族主义

    [更多]

    1. 不要忘记希特勒发明了欧盟——这是他的主意。
    2. 希特勒的政党破产了,除非有公司救助他,否则他将无处可去。
    3. 俄国共产主义革命震惊欧洲,社会主义兴起。 公司不想参与这场运动。 为了战胜这一点,他们接受了共产主义的敌人法西斯主义。
    4. 福特通用汽车和标准油是希特勒的最大支持者

    https://dogandlemon.com/sites/default/files/cars_nazis.pdf

    “美国实业家集团一心想要让一个法西斯国家取代我们的民主政府,并与德国和意大利的法西斯政权密切合作。 ”威廉·E·多德,美国驻德国大使 1937

    正如我所解释的,墨索里尼成立了公司来控制意大利生活的方方面面。 那是法西斯主义。 你显然是通过 21 世纪的放大镜看过去。 玻璃通过忽略其他重要方面来确定一个方面。 法西斯主义并非凭空出现。 共产主义出现在 1920 年之前。这吓坏了欧洲和美洲的公司。 公司叫嚣法西斯主义,因为他们在法西斯主义中有很大的发言权,而在共产主义中,他们不复存在。 因此,公司的生存创造了法西斯主义。 你认为谁资助了希特勒——一个身无分文的洗牌? 公司做到了。 超过 200 家美国公司资助和支持希特勒的崛起。 你认为他们没有得到他们的钱的价值!!! 我向你保证,他们确实物有所值。 标准石油公司(布什家族)、亨利福特汽车公司、通用汽车公司都资助和支持了希特勒。

    另一本词典:

    法西斯主义:以僵化的一党专政、强行镇压反对派、政府集中控制的私营经济企业、好战的民族主义、种族主义和军国主义等为特征的政府制度。

    关于公司和纳粹的文章:

    当利润与政治纠缠在一起时会出什么问题的悲惨故事。 席亚拉·托雷斯·斯佩利斯西
    20年2016月XNUMX日

    这是一段很大程度上被遗忘的历史,但在 1932 年,德国纳粹党正面临财务危机。 仅仅一年后,纳粹是如何从破产到控制德国政府的? 1933 年初,德国工业家救助了纳粹党。

    引领潮流的实业家是两家德国大公司,IG Farben 和 Krupp。 两家公司的领导人都是二战后在纽伦堡法庭被指控犯有战争罪的少数平民之一。 这些审判将他们对纳粹的财政和道义支持的故事载入了历史记录。 克虏伯是一家大型武器制造商。 IG Farben 是一家大型化学公司,生产从拜耳阿司匹林到齐克隆 B(毒气室中使用的毒药)的各种产品。

    根据克虏伯的武器,纳粹党在 1932 年底基本上破产了。后来成为宣传部长的约瑟夫·戈培尔抱怨说:“[我们] 都非常气馁,尤其是在面临当前的危险时整个党可能会垮掉……柏林组织的财务状况是无望的。 只有债务和义务。”

    不管党的财政问题如何,希特勒在 1933 年 25 月下旬被任命为总理。他呼吁在 20 月初举行选举。 距离投票还有不到两周的时间,赫尔曼·戈林(Herman Goering)向德国的 1933 位主要工业家发出电报,邀请他们参加 XNUMX 年 XNUMX 月 XNUMX 日在柏林举行的秘密会议。参加会议的有四位 IG Farben 董事和克虏伯首席执行官古斯塔夫·克虏伯。 希特勒向该团体发表讲话,称“私营企业无法在民主国家中维持。” 他还告诉这些人,他将消灭工会和共产党。 希特勒要求他们提供财政支持并支持他对德国的愿景。

    根据前最高法院大法官和纽伦堡美国首席检察官罗伯特杰克逊的说法,“[T]工业家......变得如此热情,以至于他们开始筹集 30 万马克 [今天价值约 XNUMX 万美元],以加强和确认纳粹执政党。”

    Gustav Krupp 是第一位在柏林会议上发言的高管,并承诺捐赠 1949 万马克。 正如联合国在 XNUMX 年的一份报告中总结的那样,克虏伯是纳粹党的主要金融家,包括通过他的公司:

    从证据中可以清楚地看出,古斯塔夫·克虏伯在纳粹党夺取政权之前不久就接受了纳粹主义,并在此后继续效忠。 他在为希特勒提供支持方面发挥了重要作用,并通过克虏伯公司的媒介……不时为[纳粹]党的财政部做出大规模的贡献。

    1933 年晚些时候,希特勒授予克虏伯工业元首称号。

    克虏伯与其他商人一起行动,包括当时欧洲最大的公司 IG Farben 的董事。 IG Farben 的全名是 Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbenindustrie Aktiengesellschaft,意思是“染料行业的利益共同体,公司”,或者作为纽伦堡检察官之一,Josiah DuBois Jr. 在他的书《魔鬼的化学家》中说,名字是“就像服务俱乐部和复活节彩蛋的结合。” 但 IG Farben 对纳粹的所作所为可不是什么好笑的事情,包括在奥斯威辛集中营专门建造的一家名为 Monowitz 的工厂使用奴隶劳工。

    在针对 IG Farben 董事的法庭开庭时,美国检察官 Telford Taylor 将军表示:“起诉书指控这些人对人类历史上最灼热和灾难性的战争负有重大责任。 它指责他们全面奴役、掠夺和谋杀。”

    根据 IG Farben 的罪与罚,在 400,000 月的会议上,IG Farben 的高管们给了纳粹 4.5 马克,到 1933 年底总共给了 XNUMX 万马克。 这种企业现金的注入使纳粹党免于金融灾难。 正如他们所说,剩下的就是历史——悲惨的、悲惨的历史。

    正如《地狱卡特尔》一书所解释的,德国实业家支持希特勒的历史表明,“当政治目标和追求利润危险地交织在一起时,会出现什么问题”。 如果商人那天晚上只是简单地对希特勒说“不”,人们只能猜测会发生什么。
    -----

  250. bwuce wee 说:
    @bwuce wee

    我没有区分美利坚合众国的第一支警察部队是:

    美国第一个警察局于1844年在纽约市成立(1845年正式组建)。 其他城市很快也纷纷效仿:1852 年的新奥尔良和辛辛那提(俄亥俄州); 1854 年的波士顿和费城; 芝加哥和密尔沃基(威斯康星州)

    感谢奥尔登指出早期的荷兰殖民地曾经有警察部队,而不是纽约警察局。 但这并不能否认未能同化的爱尔兰移民是纽约警察局成立的原因。

  251. 吉普赛人被称为罗姆人,但在希伯来语中,他们的名字来源于埃及城市 Zoan,被称为“法老王的皇家城市”或 Tanis(如 Targum 所说),曾是该国的皇室和首都; 在英国文学中,被描述为“自称埃及人的古怪人”。 这是来自维基百科(罗姆人,但从那以后就消失了):

    英文术语 Gypsy(或 Gipsy)起源于中古英语 gypcian,是 Egipcien 的缩写; 中世纪的法国人称罗马人为埃及人。

    希伯来语:צוענים‎,罗马化:Tzoanim。 源自圣经的埃及城市 Zoan,或源自语言词根 צ־ע־נ‎,意思是“流浪”

    以赛亚书 30:4 因为他的首领在琐安,他的使者来到哈内斯。
    以西结书 29:12 “我要将埃及人分散在列国中,并将他们分散到各个国家。”
    19 所以主神如此说:看啊,我要把埃及地给巴比伦王尼布甲尼撒; 他必夺取她的群众,夺取她的战利品,夺取她的猎物; 这是他军队的工资。

    更多从圣经的角度来看, https://wulfstein.org/2022/03/28/who-are-the-gypsies/?preview_id=28185&preview_nonce=403b9216b3&preview=true

  252. frankie p 说:
    @Sollipsist

    让我们再加上一个事实,他的左手只有三个手指能够在指板上按动音符。 既然你提到它,姜戈遇到了塞戈维亚并为塞戈维亚效力,给他留下了深刻的印象。 在一首长而优美的乐曲结束时,塞戈维亚询问是否获得了姜戈刚刚演奏的乐谱。 当然,Django 只是笑着说:“我只是即兴发挥而已。” 这种互动突出了音乐、古典和爵士乐制作过程中的差异。 有关这些差异的详细解释,请参阅 1966 年的比尔·埃文斯 youtube 视频“比尔·埃文斯的普遍思想”。 你不会失望的。

    • 谢谢: Sollipsist
  253. @nokangaroos

    啊哈,这解释了一些 可笑 提供尺寸 - 刀片超过一英尺长且非常宽的文件夹。 太笨重了,我认为它们是一种噱头,可能对屠宰牲畜有用。
    我选择的物品不到一半,作为“吉普赛刀”出售,故事很酷。

    吉普赛主题似乎很受欢迎,无论我走到哪里,都有“Gitanes”的广告,以黑发美女为特色。

  254. Jerry Rham 说:
    @aldasfail770

    它们的起源是什么,这一切都不同。

    如果罗姆人是东欧和东南欧的土著,那么它就是他们的故土。 在这种情况下,他们受到的待遇与美洲原住民和其他人在他们的土地被从他们手中夺走并现在被边缘化时所受到的待遇几乎没有什么不同——通常也被称为小偷和骗子。

    如果他们是土著人,他们也会被驱逐到哪里? 他们已经在他们的土地上了。 在这种情况下,斯拉夫人应该被驱逐,回到他们来自的亚洲西北大草原。

  255. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    拉里,我认为这些想法不是你的,而是来自一个叫乔治华盛顿霍斯默的人。 我怀疑他是否精通捷克语或梵语,所以他写的都是他的幻想。 与匈牙利语不同,捷克语是一种印欧语言,就像德语或俄语一样,因此声称与梵语有一些遥远的相似性并不是一个伟大的发现。 但是这个霍斯默的逻辑有些问题。 他声称

    “吉普赛人的肤色、习惯和性格与切赫人的相似,与印度人的相似。

    然后他声称

    至于肤色,据发现,奥地利军队中的吉普赛人被迫放弃了他们的野蛮生活并住在房子里,他们和欧洲人一样白。

    所以捷克人像吉普赛人一样黑,但如果在奥地利军队服役,吉普赛人就会变白。 只有真正的白痴才能写出这样的声明。 更荒谬的是,我可以声称我在泰米尔纳德邦看到的吉普赛人实际上是捷克人或波西米亚人,正如你喜欢的那样,但他们到底是怎么到那里的。

  256. karel 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    嘿,伙计,我从来没有写过这个
    他认为吉普赛人是可萨部落的后裔,他还认为蓝眼睛的匈牙利人是蒙古人的后裔。
    多加小心,少一些后现代,你应该尽量避免这种有害的时尚。

    这是一个伟大的发现

    捷克人被称为波西米亚人

    我从来没有想过,但是捷克人可以被称为摩拉维亚人吗?

    • 回复: @Here Be Dragon
  257. karel 说:
    @Skeptikal

    可能。 我也有绿眼睛,但没有吉普赛血统。 多么神秘。

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  258. snag 说:

    吉普赛人和犹太人有什么区别? 拥有真正工作并生产某些东西的犹太人的百分比是多少? 他们不掏腰包,但他们知道如何利用我们的福利制度,尤其是那些拥有两位数家庭的人。

    有没有人想知道我们花了多少钱来保护他们的犹太教堂和机构,因为他们拒绝好好照镜子,做一些自我反省,并问自己为什么他们出现的任何地方都被如此憎恨?

    我们通过赠款和补贴维持了多少犹太组织? 我们因有趣的免税捐赠最终在以色列损失了多少钱,我们为维持他们的小地堡国家而付出了多少,因为它的政权不知道或不想与他们的邻国和平共处? 我们花了多少钱才能在他们的边界上买到和平?

    关于搞砸我们,吉普赛人正在一群鬣狗旁边爬行小狗。

  259. @Dream

    这与种族无关。 德系犹太人完全可以与印度或埃塞俄比亚犹太人结婚。 近 30% 的德系犹太人与米兹拉希斯结婚。 如果他们是犹太人,跨种族婚姻是完全合法的。

    大声笑,你在说明我的意思。 让我们改写一下:

    我们允许混血。 您只需要遵守我们的“刚刚发生”的婚姻法,以严格限制您的种族选择。

    是的,我确信德系犹太人只是排队与埃塞俄比亚人结婚。 我们真的需要参加以色列国与埃塞俄比亚犹太人玩的所有游戏吗?
    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-they-didn-t-want-ethiopian-jews-in-israel-either-1.5785804

    DNA 测试只是移民到以色列的众多方法之一。

    这很有趣。

    让我们看看您最初在这里声明的内容:
    DNA 测试故事被夸大或完全愚蠢

    因此,您从称他们愚蠢或夸张到承认他们是获得公民身份的标准方法。 它们是对犹太人的种族测试,但 MSM 告诉我们种族没有生物学基础。 嗯,有趣的是,以色列对我们被告知不存在的东西进行了测试。

    你在这里不合群。 认真地去 CNN 或人们不检查任何东西的地方。

    • 回复: @Dream
    , @Dream
  260. Skeptikal 说:
    @bispora

    “另一种可能是罗曼诺夫的文章是胡说八道。 ”

    哈哈,不知道他为什么写它,虽然它很有趣。

    我不知道为什么罗曼诺夫将他的作品命名为“吉普赛人简介”。 他的知识似乎相当脆弱,并且受到 1866 年一个老头关于吉普赛人的文章以及网上可以找到的内容的过度影响。 有大量关于吉普赛人的学术著作和其他著作,其中大部分不是英文的。

    此外,很多人已经对吉普赛人和他们的历史产生了浓厚的兴趣,阅​​读的书可能比罗曼诺夫还多,罗曼诺夫似乎将他的资料限制在网络上,并不需要他的“介绍”。

    除了基因研究的有力证据之外,可以提出强有力的民族音乐学论点,即吉普赛人继承了印度的音乐和舞蹈传统,这些传统影响了他们沿途的音乐和舞蹈风格,远至西班牙和大西洋,尤其是但不仅在穆斯林世界。

    电影 Latcho Drom 提供了大量此类证据,证明在拉贾斯坦邦仍然采用的典型“吉普赛”舞蹈风格是如何随着电影向西穿越中东、埃及、土耳其、希腊和巴尔干半岛、匈牙利而发生微妙变化的,斯洛伐克,法国,西班牙,沿途跟随吉普赛团体和他们的音乐。 在最后一部分,在西班牙,你可以看到从印度开始的东西是如何变成或深刻影响到后来成为弗拉门戈风格的。 基本的动作,音乐的特点(使用特定的音乐模式和节奏)来自拉贾斯坦邦的源头。

    亚美尼亚人开发了类似的舞蹈风格。 只需在 Youtube 上搜索“亚美尼亚婚礼舞会”即可。 亚美尼亚人将这种音乐和舞蹈带到了美国西海岸,那里有一个庞大的亚美尼亚社区(卡戴珊,有人吗??)。 亚美尼亚人似乎也影响了东方的中东音乐和舞蹈场景,尤其是。 在纽约市。 一些最好的舞者和音乐家是亚美尼亚人。

    任何熟悉纽约那个场景的人(至少在 1980 年代)都会立即认出影片中大部分的舞蹈和音乐风格(在中欧部分没有多少舞蹈)。 更多民俗团体(如摩洛哥、土耳其)的舞蹈风格与电影在拉贾斯坦邦的开场部分相似,相比之下,开罗(和伊斯坦布尔)夜总会发展并流行起来的“夜总会”肚皮舞风格作为“东方主义”的一部分,在欧洲和西方的首都。 表演者想出了精心制作的性感串珠服装,强调了这种风格所特有的复杂隔离效果。 打击乐由哑巴演奏者提供,但也由舞者对黄铜手指钹(zills)的掌握提供。 节奏很复杂。 基本上舞者的整个身体都是打击乐的。 它可能看起来只是一场性感的舞蹈,但它需要大量的音乐和身体训练才能带来好的表演。 欣赏的观众,也包括女性,会在表演者服装的边缘贴一张钞票,就像在眼镜蛇吉普赛人中一样。

    大多数夜总会类型的表演者在他们的表演中也加入了民俗舞蹈,有不寻常的五、七或十拍的拍号以及更多更民俗的旋转和在地板上的动作。 最好的当然是现场音乐——一个典型的组合是乌德琴、单簧管、吉他、哑巴,可能还有弓弦乐器,也可能是手风琴或六角手风琴——舞者和乐队呈现出一套不同类型的节奏和舞蹈,速度很快,缓慢,打击乐,民俗。 当表演者在纽约的一家俱乐部完成他们的独奏表演后,他们穿上一件长裙,套在他们的服装上,然后走到地板上,每个人都一起跳舞,这与本主题的一些视频剪辑中的风格非常相似。

  261. 我对乔治·霍斯默的提及很清楚。 你似乎在诋毁一个你不知道的作者,并且在没有任何证据的情况下,只是简单地将他的写作视为幻想。

    你不知道霍斯默知道什么,不知道他说什么语言,也不知道他的经验或资格。 由于您没有在大西洋发表过文章,因此他的知识和专业知识可能比您自己的要好得多。

    他关于放弃野外生活的人至少会失去一些“质朴”肤色的说法很容易得到支持。 这种说法既不愚蠢也不荒谬。

    当这个人说,“吉普赛人的肤色、习惯和性格与切赫人的相似,就像他们与印度人的一样”,他显然是从个人经验说的。 150 年后,我们不能仅仅基于意见就抛弃他的观察。

    我不打算发动战争,但我们似乎有一些“扶手椅四分卫”,他们没有个人知识,似乎没有做过研究,没有学历,但觉得不得不说个人(而且很可能不知情) ) 意见作为圣经真理,只能诉诸贬低侮辱来驳斥相反的观点。 那没有帮助。

    我个人的立场是,这是一个很大、非常有趣和非常复杂的领域,它将受益于对所有可能性的公正审查。 我非常怀疑是否有人掌握了“全部真相”,甚至 DNA 序列也被谨慎呈现。

    我在这里附上几张照片,大部分是欧洲吉普赛人被装上火车被驱逐出境。

    • 回复: @karel
  262. snag 说:
    @snag

    顺便说一句,每次您购买带有 Kosher 标志的产品、在餐厅用餐、在酒店过夜或在 Kosher 认可的度假村度假时,您都需要支付额外费用并支持寄生虫,这样他们就可以生产更多同类产品并挤压您更难。

  263. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    A longer story, CM, will try to be concise. It would be amazing that Gypsy came to Europe with Vedic Sanskrit. No one stated this so far, it would really original. If we know (actually, we know!) who were Aryans that would answer many questions. Anyway, it is impossible that Gypsy brought thousands of Sanskrit words (one third) to Serbia which was at that time (13th c) the strongest kingdom in Europe with comprehensive written, legal system. Trickles of incoming, segregated and passing Gypsy nomads did not mix with locals and could not theoretically pass them any words. Ancient Serbian (i.e. proto-Slavic) language organically developed from the oldest and highest European culture in Lepenski Vir/Vincha and it is several 000 years old, much older than Latin, for e.g. not speaking of young languages such as English or German (12th and 14th cAC). Btw, English is a good reservoir which preserved many old Serbian words (for e.g. ghost, land, cat, vampire and many other). Serbian word MED (honey), which is a root for ‘medicine, medicament’, is adopted in more than 40 languages around the world.

    India and today’s Serbia are not ‘distant’ regions. For e.g. at the beginning of Alexander’s dynasty (814BC) there were not Bulgarians, Albanians, Rumanians, Hungarians, Bosnians, Croats, Germans, etc, Latin language still did not exist and Greeks still did not enter the world history. From Peloponnese to Baltic and India, China and Japan (!) was spoken ancient proto-Slavic (old Serbian) language from which evolved all Slavic languages (including modern Serbian, Russian, Polish, Czechs, etc) and Sanskrit as its local version in India. When Gypsy came to Serbia/Europe, the language there was fully formed and could not absorb many new words. For example, some complex family relationships (e.g. ‘husband’s brother’s wife’), which are pre-Vedic words are the same one word name in Sanskrit and modern Serbian. It would be strange if Gypsy brought the language from India only to today’s Serbia but not to surrounding nations, which existed in the 14-15th cAC, considering that they didn’t jump with parachute there. Txs for your attention.

    @Rebel Boy/Alden – I should say there ‘pretty light’ or ‘lighter than an average Gypsy’. Hope you will agree with me.

    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Commentator Mike
  264. Anon[239]• 免责声明 说:
    @Old and Grumpy

    My grandfather’s generation called Hungarians “Hunkies” as a term of derision. This was in Appalachia about 90 years ago.

  265. Skeptikal 说:
    @karel

    Do you look like girl in the photo?

    I thought not!!

    • 回复: @karel
  266. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    Vlad the Impaler is the national hero of Romania.

    People like Vlad Tepis should have been heroes for all Christian Europe, all the way to Iceland.

    Marathas are considered heroes by all Hindus for standing up to the foreign Islamic Mughals and other Muslim powers. Marathas are from the Maharashtrian ethnic group of western India (Bombay city), bu all Hindus throughout the subcontinent consider the founder of the Maratha Empire, King Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, a hero even if they are not Maharastrians themselves.

    Descendants of European Christendom (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox etc.. ) have no psychological unity against outsiders it seems.

  267. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    There is a Serbian Aryan origin theory which runs parallel to the mainstream Aryan theory. I have no personal problem with that, I think Serbs are cool. I was pro-Milosevic, personally in the recent Yugoslav conflict. Some Serbian and Indian scholars have found extra ordinary similarity in between Sanskrit and Serbian.
    There are other theories like Indian origin theory of Aryans, first proposed by a British officer in service in the British Indian Imperial Army, Colonel Olcott, which is the favourite of Hindutva Nationalists in India today.
    Anyways, my DNA test says that my Y-chromosome originates in the Ukraine. Another friend of mine, a Bengali of my caste was also shocked by his result, the same result as mine. That is because, we Indians are brainwashed by the Hindutva nationalist, Indian origin of Aryans theory (which has become untenable/ nearly impossible now, with more genetic research). It seems Aryans went from Europe to Central Asia and then went down to the Iranian Plateau and Indian subcontinent, and intermixed with the earlier people. Anyways, my Bengali friend (a medical student) took a sudden interest in Ukraine, after knowing of his genetic results. Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian history. He even traveled there (Land of my great great great….great grand Dad), of course before the Russian military operation.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  268. Malla 说:
    @Odyssey

    Serbian word MED (honey)

    Amazing, Hindi word for honey is ‘Madhu’, which is mostly of Sanskrit origin.
    Madhu-Med, similar.
    Even the English term ‘Mead’ which is made from honey.
    And in Hindi, sweet in the context of “sweet voice” is called ‘Madhur’, from the sweetness of honey.

    BTW, the Indian languages most similar to Sanskit/Prakrit in India today are Marathi of Western Indian subcontinent and Bengali of the Eastern Indian subcontinent. They are some of the Southernmost (Southernmost is Sinhalese of Sri Lanka) Aryan languages in the Indian mainland, south of these languages, the Dravidian languages start. So they were less influenced by Muslims even if Muslims ruled there. By Bengali, I mean the Bengalis spoken by Hindus, especially brahmins, Muslims speak a Bengali which is laden with foreign hindu/urdu etc… words.

  269. @snag

    How many Jewish organizations do we keep afloat by grants and subsidies?

    All of them. Every one.

    • 回复: @snag
  270. @Odyssey

    There are more Indians (i.e. Gypsies) in Serbia than Serbs in India. It’s possible that they brought some Indian words with them and gave them to the locals. The Turks with Islam brought many Arab words to the Balkans which are now part of the local languages. I was not implying that Gypsies imparted the language but perhaps some words.

    Serbs are Aryans but so are many other peoples.

    Lepenski Vir /Vincha civilisation may have originated a written script but we really can’t tell much, if anything, about their language.

    I see you date Alexander the Great’s dynasty some half a millennium earlier than is accepted. Where did you get that from?

    My view is that people move around and seldom completely displace the local populations, except for Europeans in America and Australia, but tend to mix with them. So it is quite possible that Serbs of today are a mix of some Slavs coming from the north and indigenous peoples who were there before. Look at the Mongol or Hun conquests: despite the popular view that they wiped everything out where they rode through you can hardly spot an old timer Mongol or Hun in Hungary or the other parts of Europe they apparently settled in – there are still Mongol/Asian looking physiognomies but I’d say less than one in a thousand among the traditional locals, excluding of course the new Chinese immigrants. And then there is the theory that Slavs originated from the Balkans. Or maybe they were always present in what are Slavic lands today and any migrations were internal within their own space.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
    , @Skeptikal
  271. Rahan 说:
    @Odyssey

    Ancient Serbian language was brought 2000BC to India by Aryans where its local version became Sanskrit. Even now, there are several thousands of identical (22%) or very similar (11%) words between Sanskrit and modern Serbian

    The curse of the eastern european and even central asian post-soviet country: they are all the original aryans, they all come from sirius B, they all had flying pyramids, they all speak a language from which all other arise, and they all have a sacred fate to save the world.

    And they all had a huge englightened ancient empire which has been scrubbed from history books by satan.

    I assure readers that the Azov chaps are also the original aryans, also had flying pyramids back in the day, and so on. Even the bloody Slovaks had those no doubt. The Tajiks are the most entertaining.

    What would be fun though, is for some scientologist to incorporate all this into their doctrine, and for it to turn out that every eastern european and post-soviet nation is in fact a representative from a different planetary civilization, and they indeed all used to have star-spanning empires, of which dim memories survive to this day.

    • 回复: @karel
    , @Odyssey
  272. Rahan 说:
    @Bro43rd

    在我看来,那张照片是两个穿着运动胸罩的小个子。

    Next stop: autistic pony-identifying midgets dueling with hind leg kicks.

    Only an ableist nazi bigot would not celebrate this.

  273. Dream 说:
    @John Johnson

    大声笑,你在说明我的意思。 让我们改写一下:

    我们允许混血。 您只需要遵守我们的“刚刚发生”的婚姻法,以严格限制您的种族选择。

    是的,我确信德系犹太人只是排队与埃塞俄比亚人结婚。 我们真的需要参加以色列国与埃塞俄比亚犹太人玩的所有游戏吗?
    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-they-didn-t-want-ethiopian-jews-in-israel-either-1.5785804

    You are just being stupid. Seems I have to repeat – Ashkenazi Jews can marry Middle Eastern Jews but not Middle Eastern Muslims or Christians. Intermarriage between Ethiopians, while low, is still much higher than intermarriage with Palestinians( who are extremely close genetically and phenotypically as compared to Ethiopians). Sicilians and South Italians, who are genetically closest to Ashkenazis cannot marry Ashkenazis in Israel. You just don’t seem to grasp that those anti-“miscegenation” laws are just religious laws. 2013 Miss Israel was an Ethiopian – so much for “white” Jewish supremacy.

    Miscegenation between whites and blacks in USA has also drastically increased in the last 30 years. Attitudes change over time. Today white women are lining up to to have sex with black men, unlike in 1980.

    All media, both Israeli and Western, reports how “racist” Israel is towards Ethiopians. Here is a Wapo article. So much for Israelis being allowed to be racialists.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/05/08/why-ethiopian-jews-are-protesting-against-police-violence-in-israel/

    这很有趣。

    让我们看看您最初在这里声明的内容:
    DNA 测试故事被夸大或完全愚蠢

    因此,您从称他们愚蠢或夸张到承认他们是获得公民身份的标准方法。 它们是对犹太人的种族测试,但 MSM 告诉我们种族没有生物学基础。 嗯,有趣的是,以色列对我们被告知不存在的东西进行了测试。

    Yes downright stupid in the context that many on the far right believe that unless you are genetically “Jewish” you can’t immigrate to Israel. There is no such thing as a racial Jew in Israel. Jews of various races live together in Israel. Germany also allowed millions of ethnic Germans from Central Asia to get citizenship and immigrate there – does that mean Germany recognises “German” race?

    Here are the Bnei Menashe- what Dna test did they pass?

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-bnei-menashe-touches-down-in-israel/amp/

    你在这里不合群。 认真地去 CNN 或人们不检查任何东西的地方。

    Not only do you lack knowledge about Israel, but you you also seem to be lacking in reading and comprehension skills.

  274. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Larry, it seems a mystery to me why you are studbornly defending the idiocy of this Honser.

    1. As an American he had probably difficulties to find Bohemia on a map. He provides no evidence that he has ever visited Bohemia, nor that he could speak any Czech. He has even problem with spelling and copying the name Žižka.

    I can send you a pic. of mine from Prague and speak to you in Czech (give me your tel. No., if you do not believe me), but you would probably not understand a word.

    2. The insinuation that

    Since you have not been published in the Atlantic, it may be that his knowledge and expertise were much superior to your own.

    I might somehow be interested in publishing in the Atlantic makes me laugh. I publish in scientific articles not in such a rag intended for a popular consumption.

    3. Your statement concerning

    他关于放弃野外生活的人至少会失去一些“质朴”肤色的说法很容易得到支持。 这种说法既不愚蠢也不荒谬。

    is just absurd. So, Gypsies in the Austrain army, unlike Czechs, when forced to wash, look like “Europeans”. I have no evidence whether my great grand uncle Emanuel, who served in the cavalery at the turn of the 19th century actually washed himself like the gypsies in the infantery, but other members our family have miraculously lost their “rustic” complexion in the course of just three generations. Perhaps you may have an explanation for this metamorposis.

    4. I would strongly recommend you to follow your own words

    I’m not looking to start a war, but we seem to have a few “armchair quarterbacks” who have no personal knowledge, seem to have done no research, have no academic qualifications,

    I wonder what academic qualifications you have . Have you ever published anything in a respectable peer review journal? Just show it. Are you a student or long retired?

    5. If you are so interested in the life of gypsies, why not to read

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24419/24419-h/24419-h.htm

    whos author actually visited Bohemia. I have more faith in what the reverend G. R. GLEIG, M.A. wrote, than in the confused bleating of Honser.

    Gleig described a youth referred to as a “torpinda”, another expression for a gypsy as follows

    There is no denying that the whole appearance of this youth was very picturesque, but it was a great deal more picturesque than attractive. His long shaggy hair and dark olive complexion were alike remarkable; but the expression of his countenance was decidedly bad, and he never looked you straight in the face. To be sure, the treatment which, in common with others of his class, he probably receives from the Bohemians, is not calculated to make him fall in love with them; for the people of the country seem to regard these wanderers with a mixture of contempt and loathing. Yet I imagined that I read in that downcast look, and in the stealthy air which attached to all his movements, marks of the sort of training which may be expected to produce an accomplished vagabond. I dare say that young fellow knew perfectly well how to silence the cackling of a barn-door fowl in a hurry, and might not be inexpert in the operation of removing quietly a knapsack, or other load, from beneath a sleeping man’s head. But the thews and sinews of the boy, and I may add, of all of his tribe whom we encountered, were not such as to impress me with any very exalted ideas of their strength or prowess. I fancied that, with the aid of a good stick, I should not be afraid to give any three of them the knives of which I had heard so much, and then join battle.

    When the boy was gone we proceeded to question our landlady as to the habits of his people, and we received from her an account corresponding in all respects with that which our first informant had given us. She added, over and above, that there was no trusting them; that they were deceitful to a degree unparalleled among men, and that no arts or offices of kindness ever won their forbearance. We listened to her statements more than half disposed to credit them, yet we adhered to our original determination, nevertheless, of joining the first gypsy camp on which, during the course of our tour, we might stumble.

  275. karel 说:
    @Rahan

    haha. Are Germans also ”East Europeans,” so that they could rightly refer to themselves as Aryans? There are hypotheses floating around that Germans are swamp people coming from regions around Dniepr.

    • 回复: @Rahan
  276. Odyssey 说:
    @Malla

    Very well, my Bengali colleague’s name is Madhu. Percentages I mentioned (22% identical and 11% very similar) came from Tagore’ ggranddaughter who studied Serbian and Slavic languages for 30 years and found that Serbian and Bengali are the most similar to Sanskrit. You can use Google translate and check which languages around you in South and Central Asia adopted MED (e.g. Urdu and Pashtun yes, Tamil – no. You will be surprised, and you will see the Aryans’ reach. An English guy told me that they still have bottled ‘mead’. This is actually ancient proto-Slavic alcoholic drink ‘medovina’ made from honey. ‘Veda’ is also a proto-Slavic (Serbian) word.

    • 回复: @karel
  277. @Malla

    If Gypsies are Indians, then there is a corollary, that Indians… are Gypsies.

  278. Odyssey 说:
    @Rahan

    You simply cannot hide your frustration. I bet you are an oit who thinks that Aryans originated in India and populated the whole world from there (not one left in India), only they don’t know when this happened. So, let me open your eyes if there is any hope. Aryans were proto-Slavics, it means that all modern so-called Slavic nations – Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians (incl. Azov), Slovaks, Polish, Czechs, etc, even Bosnian Muslims and Croats can claim Aryan ancestry. All their languages evolved from old Serbian. Aryans brought this language to India where became Sanskrit, so as Rg Veda and mythology. Hindu mythology and deities are very similar to old Slavic mythology. I can provide you several thousands of Serbian toponyms in South and central Asia. I think that Tajiks also have high percentage of Slavic genetics and they also can claim Aryans’ ancestry so as millions of Indians.

    Yes, significant portion of Germans have Serbian origins (even Adolf mentioned this in his book). Prussians are genetically Serbs, germanised in the 12 cAC but spoke Serbian until 200 years ago when it was prohibited. Serbs founded Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig, etc and gave them Serbian names. Germans lived in today’s France, the river Rhine was the historic border btw Germans and Serbs. Over time Germans destroyed Serbian Baltic kingdoms and conquered their land. All old toponyms, especially in E.Germany were Serbian.

    • 回复: @Rahan
  279. @Malla

    Pali has many Slavic and Latin sounding words.

    My point was about how do we decide who originated certain words and loaned them to whom. We obviously have to establish that those words were in one original language longer than in the other which imported it. If you travel you may come across cultures, folklore, terms, words and toponyms which remind you of another but it is arrogant to claim one’e own culture and language preceded the other without being able to furnish concrete evidence that it is indeed so, only because you spotted an identity or a similarity.

  280. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM, there are 16% of Indians with Slavic’s genetics, so, you can calculate. I don’t know any Gypsy word which was adopted by Serbs. Even, if this is the case, it would be similar situation in all other Euro countries. Do they have thousands of such words as Serbs have?

    As I mentioned in the other comment, all modern Slavic nations, so as 100+ millions of Indians can claim Aryans’ ancestry, but in 2000 BC they spoke ancient Serbian (proto-Sanskrit) language and had proto-Slavic genetics. Lepenski Vir/Vincha is a place where originated the oldest EU civilisation immediately after the Ice Age. At the height of IA, probably 90-95% of European people lived there and later on migrated in all directions.

    In 814 BC, the Alexander’s ancestor was appointed to be ‘karan’ (something as a mayor) in Voden (Watery) in today’s Greece (after almost 3000 years, this place was renamed to Greek name, so as 1000 other places). This admin position wasn’t hereditary but, somehow it was transformed by him and his sons. They established a dynasty (I can give you all names), expanded the land, created the kingdom and at some stage changed its name to Serbian name – Macedonia, etc, etc. So, Alexander’s dynasty lasted for about 500 years. Of course, they were NO Greeks, who, in 814BC, were still squatting in the Dark, waiting for the wild card to participate in the first fake Olympic games and to officially enter the world history.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  281. Skeptikal 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    I met an Austrian family who lived in Vienna, at music festival in Horn. This was, I believe, in 1982.
    The mother was quite dark, with very dark hair and dark eyes. Square face.
    Likewise, the daughter.
    In chatting about our backgrounds they imparted with pride the information that their daughter had the Mongolian dot. I had never heard of this!

    Gypsies I saw in Olomouc, Moravia, in 1992, were definitely a sad-looking group.
    Children and teens would hang out about around the fountain in the main square.
    No adults to be seen with them. They did not look healthy. Quite a few had cross eyes, matted hair, poorly shaped heads/jaws, very crooked teeth, etc.
    I wondered about the possible effects of alcoholism on fetuses, not to mention the general family circumstances. Or perhaps these health issues were the result of endogamy. It seems like the fortunes and appearance of different groups of Gypsies has a great deal to do with the actual clan they are in.
    Olomouc is not that far from the Slovak border.
    This was the spring of 1992, prior to the referendum regarding the separation of Bohemia and Moravia from Slovakia.
    Many of the “westerners” wanted to get rid of the Gypsies—push those in the Czech Lands into Slovakia, one way or another. They were seen to belong to Slovakia, not Czechia.
    As for “Cechs” (that spelling works only with a diacritical on the C*) looking like Gypsies, all I can say is, these “Cechs” probably were Gypsies!

    As for “The Cechs are an eminently gay and musical race,” in my experience and to my knowledge, it is the Moravians who are the very musical segment of the total Czechia population. The musical education starts early, with serious choral training for children, participation in dancing circles, etc.
    Many uni students in Olomouc had dual majors one of which was music, e.g., physics and music, pedagogy and music. Singing in the uni chorus requiring some knowledge of music theory and serious ear training (warmup: “Up a fifth; . . . down a minor third . . .”).
    In my experience the Czechs are somewhat dour; however, they are very good athletes. I believe that a lot of the nationalistic movement in the 19th century was rooted in athletic clubs of various sorts.

    *Wiki: “The Czech Republic’s official formal and short names at the United Nations are Česká republika and Česko in Czech, and the Czech Republic and Czechia in English.”

  282. Anonymous[331]• 免责声明 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    “Vampires” and “Werewolves” are a relic of cave man days, when under the direction of a Shaman, in a cave, to the accompaniment of simple music, the young are initiated into the adult life by being “transformed” themselves into hunting animals, wearing animal skins, in order to learn how to hunt from their example. Hermes is a “psychopomp” who leads beings into the afterworld, or into the underworld. It is actually a common mass group phenomena today at rock concerts or raves.

    There is an exhibit in the American Museum of Natural History, where Amerindian men in animal costumes made out of real hides and claws, ritually appear at certain times of the year and snatch unsuspecting children to take them into the forest for several weeks to teach them the secrets of the tribe. The phenomenon is called “Maennerbund” in the history of religions. But the “transformation” model also exists in “secret societies,” such as the Freemasons, the Templars, the CIA, criminal gangs such as the Mafia, the Hell’s Angels, the SS, and so on. A propensity for wearing leather is a clue. To become an animal implies being “free” and is accompanied by acts which polite society considers criminal, such as slashing peoples faces in the New York subways, in order to be accepted into the group. Or, even better, to kill someone, randomly, for the sake of acceptance and a blood bond to the group. And it actually is the model for religions, because if you can transform yourself into an animal, you can transform yourself into an Angel, or even better.

    There are parts of the world where the Maennerbund mentality is more deeply rooted, and more strongly manifest. Romania is one of them, still today, and so is Siberia, and among American Indian tribes. And Africa, and India, and South America. Remember “Sitting Bull” and “Crazy Horse?” Another is “Georgia” in the Caucasus, whose real name, Gurjistan, means “land of the wolf,” that is, the Werewolf, in Persian. Then there is Hyrcania in Iran, which also means “land of the wolf” which Firdawsi called the “land of the two footed wolves” and which for this reason figures as the name of the Maccabee-Hasmonean dynasty, an allusion to their transmoral nature, since, strictly speaking, exoteric religions prohibit such things whereas esoteric religions promote them. But the Maennerbund, or animal transformation society, is found everywhere in the human species.” In Zoroastrianism, the Maennerbund societies, such as the Arya Haoma Varka, or “Aryan Haoma Wolves” were singled out for their abuse of mind transforming drugs. They glugged the Haoma, instead of using it sparingly. There is nothing new under the Sun.

  283. Rahan 说:
    @Odyssey

    You certainly have the right to the proto-Serbian mega-civilization theory, and hopefully people will see your posts and enrich their worldviews.

    Perhaps the Montenegrin reader will suddenlt realize that it was ancient proto-montenegrins who did all this and thus all of Europe are mongrelized Montenegrins. Or mongrelized Slovaks etc.

  284. Rahan 说:
    @karel

    Jokes aside, what we call “Eastern Germany” was indeed Slavic

    The “Prussians” and the “Russians” may not be such a cosmic fluke in the sense of name similarities.

    • 同意: Commentator Mike
    • 回复: @Odyssey
  285. karel 说:
    @Skeptikal

    Perhaps at midnight but I have green eyes.

  286. Dream 说:
    @John Johnson

    让我们看看您最初在这里声明的内容:
    DNA 测试故事被夸大或完全愚蠢

    因此,您从称他们愚蠢或夸张到承认他们是获得公民身份的标准方法。 它们是对犹太人的种族测试,但 MSM 告诉我们种族没有生物学基础。 嗯,有趣的是,以色列对我们被告知不存在的东西进行了测试。

    Also, the DNA test method is quite recent and rarely utilised.

    In response to the petition, the state said that only in a few cases was an appeal made to the president of the chief rabbinical court for approval to do genetic testing. In 2013, no such inquiries were made; in 2014, only one was made; in 2015, there were no inquiries; in 2016, there were seven; in 2018, there were six, and in 2019 (through May) there was just one.

    The data also show that in 2017, 3,868 people applied to have their Judaism confirmed and 96 percent of the requests were approved; in 2018, there were 3,451 applications and 97 percent were approved. “These figures speak for themselves. The vast majority of the applications were approved, only in a very few cases was a request for genetic testing made,” Sohlberg wrote.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-high-court-allows-dna-testing-to-prove-judaism-1.8439615

  287. @karel

    I never wrote that the Gypsies are descendants of Khazarian tribes, and he also considers that blue-eyed Hungarians descended from the Mongols. Be more careful and less postmodern.

    I know, that was my own observation. You did not write that, I did.

    It is a great discovery that ethnic Czechs were called Bohemians. I never thought of that, but can ethnic Czechs be called Moravians?

    没有

    According to Encyclopaedia Britannica,

    “Czech language, formerly Bohemian is spoken in the historical regions of Bohemia, Moravia, and southwestern Silesia in the Czech Republic, where it is the official language.”

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Czech-language

    “Bohemia, historical country of central Europe that was a kingdom in the Holy Roman Empire and subsequently a province in the Habsburgs’ Austrian Empire. From 1918 to 1939 and from 1945 to 1992, it was part of Czechoslovakia, and since 1993 it has formed much of the Czech Republic.”

    https://www.britannica.com/place/Bohemia

    The British have their own views regarding history, often inaccurate and sometimes absolutely incorrect.

    • 回复: @karel
  288. @anonymous

    RE: The language is closely related to the languages of northern India, particularly Punjabi.

    This is why many believe that the name GYPSY did not come from the erroneous assumption that these people were from EGYPT. The Armenian word, PUNJABTSI means a person hailing from the Punjab. That is the eytmological origin of GYPSY.

    There are also other words used by Armenians to describe the Roma such as Posha and Kunchu.

  289. @Old and Grumpy

    Many studies have been done revealing the linguistic and DNA links between Basques and Armenians.
    There is much on the Internet if you search.
    The founders of Basque national historiography — Esteban de Garibay, Andres de Posa and Baltasar de Echave— all considered Armenia as the original homeland of the Basques.
    https://tamarnajarian.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/the-armenian-origin-of-basques/

  290. Mefobills 说:
    @bwuce wee

    A syndical or syndicate system is what Mussolini was aiming for. It was an evolution of the guild system. These guilds answer to the imperial center, an authoritarian government.

    Your posting only proves the case.

    A corporatocracy like in the west is rule by corporations and the hidden finance capital owner class.

    • 回复: @bwuce wee
  291. Muggles 说:

    until it was discovered that this nation of people were Mongols and migrated from Western Mongolia centuries ago to form a new homeland more or less in the center of Eastern Europe. So far as I am aware, no one yet knows how or why that would have occurred.

    Re: the origin of the Magyars in (now) Hungary.

    The recent book on the Jochid Mongol horde (The Horde,Marie Favereau, 2021) founded by Genghis’s oldest son documents how the Golden Horde moved west into Europe and ruled for several centuries in various parts of Eastern Europe and central Asia. Roughly 1200-1400 AD.

    Various sub hordes, which were traveling bands of warriors and families, moved along river drainage’s and sometimes totally broke away from their parent hordes in succession disputes.

    It is entirely possible that the Magyars were based on this. Although far earlier “Mongolian” and Turkic warrior groups had at various times invaded west (often generically called Huns).

    Much of the “Slavic” aspect to many Eastern Europeans and Russians is attributed to the Mongol genetic influence. It seems clear that for centuries tribal groups from Central Asia moved west to secure better grazing land or to escape capture by rival bands and tribes. Hungary was easy to travel to with horses and carts, lacking large eastern mountain barriers.

    Not unlike those other groups who invaded and settled in western and northern Europe, though with different racial founding stock. Their “invasions” were earlier and from the Iran/Caucasus regions.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
    , @Odyssey
  292. karel 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    Forget encyclopedia britannica. It is important how the native speakers describe they own language, not some foreign tribes.

    • 回复: @Here Be Dragon
  293. Update on Origin

    I have a friend in India who has my respect as an excellent historian and scholar. I asked his input on the origin of the Gypsies. This was his initial reply:

    “All convention wisdom points to their being from India.” That will no doubt please some readers. However, he added a qualification that I had never seen before. He wrote:

    “Or one tribe part migrated to India and part to Europe.”

    This is certainly plausible, and raises a multitude of possibilities. It would answer some questions about why there is no evidence of a mass migration of Gypsies from India to the Balkans, at least none that can categorically be linked to the Gypsies. It would also explain the DNA test results; if there were one original Gypsy tribe that split and migrated to both India and Europe, we would expect genetic coherence, and this would explain much of the similarity in language, customs, music, behavior.

    I haven’t enough information at the moment to expand on this theory, but it is intriguing and deserves investigation. I shall make additional posts if I can obtain more detailed information.

    • 回复: @antitermite
    , @karel
  294. @karel

    Depending on who you are talking to. I am with you on this one but we are speaking with the Brits here.

    You did not tell me what you think about the people in the video.

    • 回复: @karel
  295. Here is a trailer for a documentary I saw a few years ago about the Gypsies of Scotland:

    The full documentary can be seen here:
    https://www.folkstreams.net/films/gypsies-sing-long-ballads

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
    , @ginger bread man
  296. Skeptikal 说:
    @ginger bread man

    “And she’s gone with the raggle-taggle Gypsies, O! ”

    BTW, the tune of this great old ballad sounds kind of gypsy-like!

    According to Christy Moore “The Raggle-Taggle Gypsies” is a Gypsy song, “one of many” that he learned from the group Planxty:

    Some interesting hints in this song, such as “yellow Gypsy’s lips” . . .

  297. @Larry Romanoff

    That is how I always understood it – migration doesn’t occur in just one direction.

    Of course this then begs the question of where Gypsies did originate from.
    Somewhere closer to India than to Europe presumably?
    The Gypsies themselves don’t know.

  298. karel 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    I know the video. The gypsies on the video look just like the beggars, I encountered in Tamil Nadu except that those I saw there had a lighter skin. The extravagant gold accessories is a typical sign of gypsiness, if I may call it that way.

    • 谢谢: Here Be Dragon
  299. @Fisk Ellington Rutledge IV

    Let me know how to steal an empty country, I’d like to speak with the owners about it. You live in a delusional fantasy and are jealous of the Israeli success at building their State, which is populated mostly by middle eastern people anyway.

    There is a huge Jewish connection with Palestine, and the classic Orthodox Jew doesn’t look anything like a Turk. There is zero Arab connection with Palestine, since they forgot about it and dwindled to less than half a million people just 15o years ago.

    告诉我一个骑马的战士部落是如何变成德系犹太人的,他们与西班牙和北非、黎凡特和小亚细亚等地的所有其他犹太人神秘地相似。

  300. @Larry Romanoff

    Completely!! I lived in Spain many years, and they were DEFINTELY INDIAN. Very dark, and similar to Pakistani tribals. Not Dravidian from south India, but the explanation of NW India makes perfect sense.

  301. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    I haven’t enough information at the moment to expand on this theory, but it is intriguing and deserves investigation. I shall make additional posts if I can obtain more detailed information.

    You never seem to have 足够的信息 to justify your preposterous claims. How about the idea that gypsies came to India together with the Aryans? Have you ever heard of the cult of fire?

  302. karel 说:
    @Odyssey

    Madhu is also a common Iranian name, I used to know two men of that name. It means honey or sweet. The only European name that is similar, I can think of, is Medard. There was even a saint of that name, but its supposed meaning is violent, not sweet. So everything is much more complex and one should not be fooled by superficial similarities. For instance, the Czech epression for a bear is MEDVED, containing two Sanskrit word roots, i.e. veda, clumsily translatable as honey scientist. or honey connoisseur.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  303. @Libertarian66

    The author is a retard who wants to make some weird point because he is obsessed with the idea that European Jews are really Turkic Khazars and “aren’t really don’t not” something else. Horse mounted warriors became accountants and actors and Polish villagers over the next centuries and then everybody got to live in each other’s mind forever because the interwebs and some books nobody read.

    Even the photos in this screed show plump, “Injun” looking people, one woman in particular. Every typical Gypsy and all of the Gypsies I ever saw in Europe were Indian by appearance, right back to NW Indian, like a tribal Pakistani. Of course people diverge and mix with others over time, so there are many different gypsies since “race” is only one aspect of human existence. People have a hard time grasping “race”, but I can say many native Spaniards looked “Indian”, often very close.

    • 同意: bispora, bispora
  304. Odyssey 说:
    @Rahan

    R – You know few things and you can choose to be a constructive interlocutor (as for e.g. CM), to present, challenge and ask questions or a bshiter on duty, it is up to you.

    The map is so-so, but it presents some things. It is a bit late map because in earlier periods Germans were located on the west bank of Rhine in today’s France. We can see some big Serbian tribes as Bodrici (Obodrite), Ljutici (Leibnitz, the founder of German Academy of Science and Martin Luther originated from them), Empress Katarina II was also a Serb.

    Russians and Prussians got their names from Raseni or Rashani, the followers of the ancient goddess of agriculture Reasa (or Rasa). This is also an alternative name for Serbs and the name of their medieval state. It is better known as its Greek reading – Thracians, for whom Herodotus said that they were the biggest nation in the world after Indians. The followers of the god Serbon were warriors. From Serbian word ‘rasa’ originated the English word ‘race’ which has the same meaning as ‘serb’ (‘cousin, relative, the member of the same race’) which was the original name for future Slavics and preserved only by Balkan and Lusitanian Serbs.

  305. Odyssey 说:
    @karel

    Yep, ‘Iranian’ actually came from ‘Aryan’. The second wave of Aryans went to Iran and further down up to the Golf and now we have many Golf Arabs with Slavic genes. It is a complex stuff, we can talk about this, you may find (Google translate) almost 50 languages, even In Africa, which adopted ‘med’. ‘Ved’ in the ‘medved’ does not mean ‘veda’ i.e. ‘science’. I will write more when time comes. ‘Veda’ is a Serbian word, it is commonly translated as ‘knowledge’ but the literal meaning is the ‘vision’ or ‘sight’ (coming from ‘vid’). It means that the real knowledge was considered what one saw with his own eyes. Even now we have a similar expression – ‘seeing is believing’. Ch.

    • 回复: @Peter Rabbit
    , @karel
    , @Sparkon
  306. Patlamish 说:

    See if you can detect the ethnic influences on this song, Saraiman, sung by ROMICA PUCEANU.

    The video that her music is set to is a scene from the famous Russian-produced romance/folklore film, The Gypsy Camp Goes to Heaven. This film features authentic singing/dancing of local Gypsies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsies_Are_Found_Near_Heaven

    • 谢谢: Skeptikal, Robjil
    • 回复: @Patlamish
  307. Sparkon 说:
    @Muggles

    Mongols … migrated from Western Mongolia centuries ago to form a new homeland more or less in the center of Eastern Europe. So far as I am aware, no one yet knows how or why that would have occurred.

    the Golden Horde moved west into Europe and ruled for several centuries in various parts of Eastern Europe and central Asia. Roughly 1200-1400 AD.

    Yes, and that period corresponds with the beginning of the Little Ice Age.

    https://climatechange.medill.northwestern.edu/2015/02/09/little-ice-age-spurs-mongol-invasion/

    No doubt, entirely natural climate change has played a very large but often overlooked role in the migrations of various peoples going back far into the long eons of human prehistory when people first began to develop language.

    Yeah, the words can get in the way, but they’re all that separates humans from the other snarling beasts of the jungle.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  308. Skeptikal 说:
    @Here Be Dragon

    Beautiful people.

    I love this musical tradition, as exemplified by the man with the reed instrument at the end–not so much the Western pop rhythms at the beginning, which IMO do not lend themselves to the dance way of these people.

    It’s too bad the white woman with the camera didn’t get up and dance.

    The Gypsies hosts would have been delighted.

    • 同意: Here Be Dragon
  309. Skeptikal 说:
    @Sparkon

    I have read that the westward migrations were spurred by “rumors” of green lands in the west with plenty of rain and rivers and verdant country.

    谁不想要那个?

    Seems like a no-brainer, actually.

  310. @halfhearted

    I thought it was completely common knowledge – at least for anyone with an interest in and reading knowledge of Nazi Germany – that the Gypsies as a group were sent to the work-camps alongside the Communists, agitators, rabid left-wing “intellectuals” (the vast majority of all those being anti-White Jews), and the other layabouts, wasters and criminals who would never agree to work for the Reich by choice. My own history lessons at school – a very long time ago – certainly mentioned this, but I doubt they are even mentioned today. That is simply because, since 1945, all we have heard about is the all-encompassing world-shattering tragedy of the entirely unprovoked Jew oppression of the “Holocaust” (TM), and the uniqueness of the Jew experience of suffering – but in fact thousands of non-Jews were also interned over the 12 years for good reason – many of them Gypsies.

    The social reputation of Gypsies across civilised White Europe for centuries, as outlined in this fine focussed article, was unchanged from what it remains today. In fact, you might say, just like that of the Jews.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/gypsies-and-the-holocaust-1779660

  311. Ed Case 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    这不可能是对暂时压迫的永久回应,对吧?

    同意,否则,为什么哥萨克人不像吉普赛人那样行事。
    我在澳大利亚遇到过很多人,毫无疑问他们的起源地是印度。

  312. @Larry Romanoff

    Indians are Caucasians. Which is a classification based on bone structure not on skin colour. In fact many non Europeans can look European – you yourself believe the Magyars are not originally European. Light skinned North Africans, middle easterners, Iranians and Indians can look Mediterranean. The Roma look more non European than many Iranians.

  313. Odyssey 说:
    @Muggles

    “Much of the “Slavic” aspect to many Eastern Europeans and Russians is attributed to the Mongol genetic influence.”

    >> It seems that you have no idea about genetics. Which genetic influence, which haplogroups, which physiognomy? How this influence reflected on, for e.g., Polish, Prussians or Serbs?

  314. @Odyssey

    Serbian is an Indo-European language. It is descended from proto-Indo-European. Sanskrit, Lithuanian, Russia, Latin, Greek, etc. are all descended from Proto-Indo-European. You seem to think that the other Indo-European languages are descended from Serbian. That is upside-down. And inside-out.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  315. karel 说:
    @Odyssey

    Ved’ in the ‘medved’ does not mean ‘veda’ i.e. ‘science’. I will write more when time comes. ‘

    Yes it does. In Czech, 科学 mean science and the verb vědět means to know , conoscere in italian.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  316. Got my pocket picked by a couple of gypsy women near the Baths of Diocletian once. One grabbed my umbrella as a diversion. No end of hassles with gypsies in Rome.

  317. Sparkon 说:
    @Odyssey

    I think the Russian word for bear, MEDVED, means or derives from “honey leader.”

    мед – honey
    ведеть – (to) lead
    медвед – bear

    However, this article claims the Russian word/name MEDVED for bear derives from honey eater:

    https://brewminate.com/a-history-of-the-changing-use-of-the-bear-as-a-symbol-of-russia/

    My Russian is not that strong, but this article doesn’t mention any form of вед (ved) as a root word for eating, although it’s probably not comprehensive.

    https://blogs.transparent.com/russian/words-for-eating-in-russian/

  318. @Malla

    By Bengali, I mean the Bengalis spoken by Hindus, especially brahmins, Muslims speak a Bengali which is laden with foreign hindu/urdu etc… words.

    I am told shortly before the outbreak of the civil war in Bosnia muslims in Sarajevo started greeting their fellow Slavs – the Serbs and the Croatians – with a mix of Turish and Arabic words.

    So they were less influenced by Muslims even if Muslims ruled there.

    How do you explain that it was not difficult for the Muslims and the British to take control of India partially or not and to rule it ?

    • 回复: @Malla
    , @Malla
  319. Odyssey 说:

    @ Sparkon – Excellent, the first meaning.

    @ Karel – your Czech translation is ok but this ‘ved’ (medved) is not ‘veda’. Have a look Sparkon’s explanation. I will write few words about such important word as ‘veda’ is (e.g. Rg Veda brought by Aryans and impossibility that, as CM speculate, that Gypsy brought some Sanskrit words back to Europe)

    @Charles Martel France – Excellent observation, too. Communist gave to Bosnian Muslims a separate nationality (Muslims with a capital M, compering to ‘muslim’ as a religion). Before, they declared themselves Serbs of Mohamedian fate. They radicalised in 90ies under influence S.Arabia, Turkey, US and Britain and start inventing characteristics of new nation. It was difficult without history and a separate name and language. So, in late 90ies they named themselves Bosniacs and introduced some Turkish words in their Serbian language which declared – Bosnian language. Not surprisingly, US recognised this language and it is now an official language although there are no differences from native Serbian language.

    @ AnotherJack – just a remark, it is interesting that Diocletian spent less than a week in Rome. He was an Serbian who was born, ruled and retired in a village close to Sirmium, 40 km from Belgrade. The tetrarchy replaced him, again two Serbs, Constantine and Licinius. Constantine prevailed, legalised Christianity, etc.

    @Peter Rabbit – Excellent observation, too, I will make a separate comment for this.

  320. ddr 说:

    Read the article and all comments all the way down. Learned that the autor knows amost nothing on the subject. In comparison most commenters are way above his knowledge. There are also a very knowledgeable Indian, a sober Czech and two delusional Serbians.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  321. Odyssey 说:
    @ddr

    And your nationality is? A Bshitter on duty? I bet you are afraid to say. A frustrated coward without any knowledge who cannot contribute anything? I challenge you to find one incorrect among two dozen of my assertions and crash my credibility for all other. Speak now or remain silent forever.

  322. Odyssey 说:
    @Peter Rabbit

    This one is a really Big and I will try to be brief and comprehensive. Thanks to Larry for providing a framework for such important discussion. We know that old (and new, too) history is falsified. Consequently, we officially do not know who Aryans were, although we know their specific genetics, language, mythology, toponyms, anthropology.

    My assertion is that the term ‘indo-european’ is meaningless and without any substance. Let’s use the basic logic. In 2000BC, Aryans came to India and brought their language which became Sanskrit. All agree that Sanskrit in India did not exist before 2000BC. All languages you mentioned are much younger (e.g. Russian – not older than the 8th cAC, Lithuanian much younger, even Latin and Greek are much younger than Sanskrit. So, all these languages could not evolve from PIE than from Aryan language. Scholars, for 200 years cannot make any progress because they started from wrong premises.

    Back to the Aryan language. We know that Aryans were proto-Slavics. They called themselves ‘cousins, relatives, members of the same race’, i.e. SRB (Serb). Because, we call their language ‘Srbski’ i.e. (ancient) ’Serbian’, which originated in Lepenski Vir/Vincha during and after the Ice Age (12000BC). The oldest languages do not have vowels and can be easily distinguished from younger languages which have a lot of vowels. Because, we have the original name ‘Srb’, while this name in all other (younger) languages is – Serb. In Serbian language ‘R’ can be a vowel and consonant. I can (will) provide some linguistic examples.

    You (or someone else) may try to tell us where so-called (proto)IE originated, its meaning and what is its timeframe. What is the link between Latin and Sanskrit or English and Sanskrit? The original Greek language (they got their name at Alexander’s time) was not so-called ‘indo-european’, but it became after adopting the language from indigenous people in today’s Greece who gave them their name.

    We can use one example from English (for e.g. ‘ghost’) and explain its origin (maybe CM can give it a try?).

  323. Odyssey 说:
    @karel

    Karel Čapek – here you can see all: med (honey), medved-bear (here you can see that ‘ved’ is not ‘veda’ than, as Sparky said, ‘ведь’ – ‘honey led’, medical encyclopedia, etc. And Masha is there as well, all in 6 minutes. You (or someone else) can give us examples of Gypsy using bears to dance for money (3 min).

    • 回复: @karel
  324. @Odyssey

    Hmm. Ghost?

    “Gost” in Serbian, Bulgarian, Russian, “host” in Czech and Slovak, “gosc” in Polish = Guest. (“Gast” in German). On the other hand “host” in English means the exact opposite of what it means in Czech and Slovak.

    “Duh” in Serbian or “duch” in Czech, Polish, Slovak= “Ghost”, but “prizrak” in Russian and Bulgarian

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove.

    Any similarities between certain words in English and Slavic languages may be because Saxony in East Germany bordered Slavic lands there and there could have also been some intermixing of people before some moved to England.

    One finds words that sound the same in different languages which could be that they have the same origin, but same sounding words in different languages could also have different meanings as “ghost” in English and Slavic.

    The further back we go in time the more difficult it gets to prove anything when it comes to languages so I guess one theory is as good as the next. There is no reason to assume that any one specific modern language is the original Indo-European language from which Sanskrit, Pali, and European languages evolved.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
    , @karel
  325. Indo-Pak Gypsies.

    The Thar people, Lahore and other areas. This is what Gypsies look like in India and Pakistan. You can judge the degree of resemblance to European Gypsies.

  326. Why couldn’t it be that the Gypsies brought some words to Europe and passed them onto Europeans? Look at this Romany glossary of just some words in their language.

    http://www2.arnes.si/~eusmith/Romany/glossary.html

    “Chao” for tea. The question arises did they have this word for tea even before the Dutch brought the tea to Europe which was after the Gypsies arrived.

    You will notice many European/Slavic words with same meaning: dosta, doshman, grob, machka, pushka, sarma, zurla, etc. but some with different meaning “sir” = garlic. The glossary states which words in Romani are from Slavic languages but then could it be that some were transferred to Slavic languages from Romani, or that they originate in both languages from an earlier IndoEuropean source language? Or some were picked up along they way from others, such as Persians, and passed onto Europeans as the notes in the glossary seem to indicate. It is not easy to determine who influenced whom, especially if there are not authenticated original written records.

    You are correct that much of history has been falsified but then who knows which is the right version? In fact many of those who wrote the old histories in ancient times may have been no less falsifiers than modern or recent historians.

    Gypsy Romani language imparted some common words to the English language (bar, chav, cosh, cushty, dick, div, gavver, gibberish, lollipop, mullered, nark, pal, scran, skip, togs, wonga) so why not to others?

    https://www.hampshirelive.news/news/hampshire-news/common-english-words-romany-gypsy-4310270

    Interestingly “satan” in Romani means to eat.

  327. bwuce wee 说:
    @Mefobills

    i already refuted your BS with another post, which somehow got tacked on to another commenter in this same thread, but i will respond to you again, since you are still whining about your defeat:

    1. mussolini called them corporations, so you are once again attempting to use semantics to prove what has already been disproven- just like when you called dollars ‘federal reserve notes’ and when i pointed out that you yourself DO NOT go to the bank and say- ‘i’d like to withdrw 100 federal reserve notes’. so corporation- if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a corporation. so mussolini relied exclusively on coporations to run his country. fascism relies on coporations to get stuff done, and these corporations in turn have REAL power in the fascist goverment.
    2. my other response included facts about hitler being financed by over 200 american CORPORATIONS, including FORD MOTORS, GENERAL MOTORS, STANDARD OIL AND MANY OTHER BIG NAME CORPORATIONS. hitler’s party would never have lasted 5 months without the finacial backing of corporations in germany, and america. so the takeway here is: the biggest corporations in the industrial world financed hitler’s regime and kept it in power. and those corpoartions GOT THEIR MONEY’S WORTH from the fascists! it was a symbiotic relationship. when someone finances you, they CALL THE SHOTS. so don’t give me any more of your fascist apologist whining. you are defeated. see my other post for dictionary definitions of fascism.
    3. a major facet of fascism is ELITES being set up in positions of power and rule. you see it in mussolini’s power structure from 1926 where this policy is stated in no uncertain terms, and you see it in nazi germany- the rich industrialist families and the noble families were the power structure of fascism. exactly like 21st century corporatism that you pretend is somehow different from fascism. it is not different. you are soft selling FASCISM by semantics- calling it corporatism. i’m not buying what you are selling. and further, you are a specialist. a one-trick pony. here is what isaac asimov says about you: SPECIALAZATION IS FOR INSECTS.
    4. and even further, joe biden just initiated a ministry of disinformation- which anyone can plainly see if the very definition of dictatorial fascism.

    • 回复: @Mefobills
  328. @Odyssey

    It may interest you that one time I was walking down a street in Luxor/ Thebes in Egypt and it had the street sign سرب in Arabic, which is “Srb”. I could never find out why this street was so named but in Arabic this word means “flock” as of seagulls, or “squadron” of airplanes, or even “herd”.

  329. @Larry Romanoff

    It is perfectly logical that Gypsies in India should look different from Gypsies in France, Germany, or the US. The difference is in the thousands of years which separate them, not the distance.

    • 回复: @karel
  330. Echo 说:

    My favorite actress portraying Gypsies is Maria Ouspenskaya. If you’d like to study Gypsies, go to their villages in Europe and stay overnight.

  331. @Odyssey

    I see your problem. Proto-Indo-European was a language spoken seven thousand years ago. Modern Indo-European languages do not come 直接 from Proto-Indo-European but through continuous intermediate developments over the last seven thousand years. Over that period of time there has been a lot of wandering on the part of the original peoples who lived in what is now the Black Sea before it was flooded by the breach from the Mediterranean creating the myth-legend of Atlantis. History only begins with writing.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  332. JimDandy 说:
    @Anonimko

    I enjoyed a movie called Gadjo dilo about a French guy in Romania trying to find a lost gypsy recording of some song.

  333. Bela 说:

    One of the more interesting and in depth articles I have read on this site or many others.
    Please continue to do interesting topics like this in the future.
    Grew up in an area where the threat of Gypsies kidnapping children was the prevalent rumor. A few settled in my town and you always knew where they lived as they had heavy rugs drawn in front of the windows instead of curtains. The only other real contact was an elderly woman with the kerchiefed head scarf and the looped ear rings. looking a little like Maria Ouspenkaya. She would always hand out candy to the kids and the kids mothers would promptly throw it away.
    Of course there was the Travelers in Ireland and we were told to always keep away from them too.

  334. Guglielmi 说:

    I’m Italian/American and lived in Italy. They live a sad existence. They are beaten in the streets and if they come home with nothing beaten again. Europe that we whites created is gone.

  335. Anonymous[417]• 免责声明 说:

    Gypsies start being mentioned in the chronicles of various European states around 1400. The DNA evidence clearly shows a link to Northern India so I would submit that they came west as the enslaved laborers of Timur and his armies who conquered Northern India before sweeping west to the Aegean and severely battering the Ottomans at the battle of Ankara in 1402. The Gypsies were simply left behind as Timur returned to Samarkand and then they followed the Turks into the Balkans.
    The harvesting and sewing seasons of the many European countries varied considerably particularly on a North/South axis so there was a demand for mobile workforce to help for these labor intensive months then they could be moved along.
    Probably most of the actual work was done by the women and children but the meagre wages went to the men. This business model would encourage the men to have large litters of children who could be sent into the fields. It may also explain the persistent allegations of child stealing, a child of 5 or 6 was past the danger period for child mortality and once kidnapped they could be put to work with any monies going to the head of the clan.

    • 回复: @Peter Rabbit
  336. @Larry Romanoff

    “DNA studies do not conclusively” uh wait, so you’re saying all the criminals in the U.S exonerated for horrific murder on DNA results may not be “conclusively” innocent? Billions of encoded peptides in DNA aren’t coincidental. They exist because they have been let’s say…injected.
    Or could it be you just refuse to have your chosen blood part of the Romani admixture?

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  337. @anonissowhatever

    ” so you’re saying all the criminals in the U.S exonerated for horrific murder on DNA results may not be “conclusively” innocent?”

    It is obvious to sensible readers that I made no such suggestions. My statement was merely to reflect that the DNA studies used words like “suggest” rather than hard definitive statements.

    Since your user name has no commenting history, I assume you and a few others similar on this thread are part of Hasbara’s misinformation campaign and are therefore soldiers in the Jewish 50-cent army.

  338. @Larry Romanoff

    Have a look at Iranian Gypsies; very different from the ones you showed from India/Pakistan.

    https://www.atlasofhumanity.com/romani

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  339. @Commentator Mike

    “Have a look at Iranian Gypsies; very different from the ones you showed from India/Pakistan.”

    Indeed they are. Thank you for the post. This is so interesting.

  340. Pinballs 说:

    This article was a waste of time. The author spent paragraph after paragraph repeating that gypsies are liars and thieves,….. as if we didn’t know that already The real story, ignored by the author, is HOW have they survived the repeated pogroms? How do they ‘insinuate themselves into authoritative structures”????? Did the Roma prototype the ‘compromate’ technique that now seem to be used to control the worlds leaders? This is the story, not that they are thieves. It’s not that author really knows much, for instance, in the MOVIE ‘slumdog millionaire’ they showed orphan beggars being damaged to increase their take (NOT a documentary).

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  341. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    Excellent research, CM. Let me just put the finishing touches. It is well documented that ancient Lepenski Vir/Vincha people revered their dead what remained among their descendants until today. More than 10000 years ago, they buried their dead under the fireplace or under the doorstep, to preserve their spirits in their homes. They assumed that the spirit of their ancestor resides in some intentional traveller and because they offered the best hospitality, food and drink, to coincidental visitors. This hospitality remains until today everywhere and especially in rural areas.

    It is present today when for e.g., one family celebrates ‘slava’, i.e. the feast dedicated to a family saint patron which has been inheriting for centuries from father to the son. It is a relic of pre-Christian pagan mythology and it is present only among Serbs. Guests are not officially invited but anyone is free to come (usually extended family, neighbours and friends). It is incorporated in the Christianity but no other Christians have ‘slava’. St Nicholas is the most frequent Serbian ‘slava’. My ‘slava’ for e.g., is St. George which is always on May 6th.

    It is interesting that colloquially St George (Djurdjevdan) is also called a ‘Gypsy slava’ because it coincides with spring Slavic pagan festivities, which were transferred to India by Aryans and returned back and practiced by Gypsies in Europe. Below are two links to a Gypsy song ‘Djurdjevdan’ (St. George’s Day). One is an English version and the second is from the earlier mentioned movie ‘Time of the Gypsies’ from Emir Kusturica (Golden Palm, Kan 1988), which, I think, will be interesting to Indian viewers.

    Well, the unknown visitor was their ‘gost’ (guest) and he represented the ‘duh’ (spirit) of their ancestor. Even now, after every funeral, during the lunch one place at the table is left empty with a plate and cutlery for the soul of deceased. This was much later accepted by English as ‘ghost’. For visitors, English use a similar word – ‘guest’. This is an example how one word is mechanically adopted from other language but without underlining meaning. Because, in the English language we have two words – ‘ghost’ and ‘guest’ while in Serbian is only one – ‘gost’. If there is some interest, we can also explain how words ‘land’ and ‘cat’ were adopted from Serbian and especially is interesting the ‘vampire’, which Larry mentioned earlier.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  342. Anonymous[140]• 免责声明 说:

    Right after the Berlin Wall came down, I was traveling from Prague to Frankfurt. Unknown to me was that thousands and thousands of former East Germans and East Europeans were returning home for weekends and then returning to work in the West on Sunday afternoon/evening. Thus the trains were mobbed. I get a seat but unknowingly it was a special seat for Kinders. Apparently, if an adult with a child comes along, they can take your seat if you don’t have a child, too. The other 3 seats in the grouping were German soldiers. A strange looking woman with a young child came along and tried to get me to move. She held the child up to my face and yelled and screamed. The German soldiers told me to ignore her that this was a scam. It went on so long, that I finally gave my seat up – of course I kept close attention to my possessions. After the woman with the child took my seat and I was now a standee, the child disappeared and was used by numerous other Gypsy women to extract seats from intimidated seat holders. Unbelievable. Thank God there aren’t many in the U.S. However, they will surface during natural disasters with numerous scams like repairing your roof – never repaired – just the money gone.

  343. bwuce wee 说:
    @Alden

    oooops! you were almost correct. i appreciate the tip BUT new york city did not exist under the dutch. however, NEW AMSTERDAM did exist. so nice try, but you are wrong. the NYPD, new york’s first police force was created in the 19th century, as i stated.

  344. Odyssey 说:
    @Odyssey

    PS: just a couple dots…Historically, the countries of England, Ethiopia, Georgia, Catalonia and Aragon in Spain, and Moscow in Russia have claimed George as their patron saint, as have several other regions, cities, universities, professions and organizations. St George was killed by the Serbian-Roman Emperor Diocletian for preaching Christianity. Shortly after his death, the other Serb, the Emperor Constantine, legalized Christianity.

    It is also interesting that all actors in the previous movie “The time of Gypsies’ were amateurs. The Gypsy boy with glasses (he is not alive anymore) was a real thief who operated in front of the Milan’s Cathedral in Italy. He was expelled without rights to enter Italy again. The movie had some sequences of Gypsy ‘operations’ in front of this Cathedral but the boy was not allowed to enter Italy. The director Kusturica had to ask for a special permission and guarantee for him to enter Italy only for the movie filming.

  345. A friend in India sent me this commentary on the Thar People:

    “Twice, I, along with my wife, have taken provisions for distribution in their camp. Both times, I have come back scratched by the long dirty nails of their girls. One time, as I was distributing some packets, some men went to my car, opened its doors and stole away the rest of the stuff. Here too they are known for stealing. On Valentine day, they sell heart shaped cards, flowers and balloons, on religious days, they sell religious items. But they are known to be thieves. Not in the sense of planned thieving but more like opportune thieving.

    But, some of their girls are wildly ravishing.”

  346. @Pinballs

    “This article was a waste of time. The author spent paragraph after paragraph repeating that gypsies are liars and thieves . . . It’s not that author really knows much.”

    Since your user name has no commenting history, I assume you, like @anonissowhatever and a few others similar on this thread, are part of Hasbara’s misinformation campaign and are therefore soldiers in the Jewish 50-cent army.

  347. Odyssey 说:
    @Peter Rabbit

    It is difficult to extract any value from your statement. If PIE was spoken (where?) 7K years ago (cca 5000BC) which language was spoken between 12K (the end of the Ice Age) and 5K BC. At about 7K BC we had the first industrial revolution (metal production) in Vincha. Which language was spoken there at that time? At about that time we have even the oldest in the world – Vincha script. The oldest in the world, Vincha calendar started immediately after this big flood which transferred a freshwater lake to Black Sea. According this Serbian calendar, now is the year 7530 and it was officially used until the end of the 19. cAC when stopped under pressure from Austria. All medieval royal and church documents were dated using this calendar.

    So, Aryans came to India with their language and Rg Veda. This language was assumed ‘indo-european’ and we already established its high similarity with Serbian. Is there any other language in Europe in 2000BC apart from the Aryan language? Scholars initially used the term ‘indo-european’ for classification purposes but, later on, they started using it for very specific Yamnaya nomads’ language which was allegedly brought to Europe from Russian steppes in 2800-2500BC and allegedly, somehow replaced all existing European languages. But, these nomads (ancestors of west Europeans) were NOT Aryans.

    Thus, we have one IE language brought by Aryans from Europe (still similar to modern Serbian and Slavic languages) and the second IE language, brought by Yamnaya to Europe. They must be different. Very strange. In addition, we don’t know anything about Yamnaya before 3100BC. So, where was developed and spoken protoIE between 5k BC and 3100BC? If the PIE was spoken at about 5K BC, where this language originated and was spoken for several 000 of years before that. Only human settlements at that time existed in Lepenski/Vir Vincha. So, my assertion remains – the term ‘indo-european’ is meaningless and without substance and the official version of linguistic development cannot sustain the basic logic.

  348. Odyssey 说:

    Esma was a ‘Gypsy Queen’ (NYT, BBC, Guardian, Apple), who performed Gypsy songs for almost 60 years. She raised 47 foster Gypsy children, who studied music at a school she founded with her husband. Performed many times in India in front of Indira Gandy who declared herself – a Gypsy. Indira was a friend of Yugoslavia, visited many times where she had regularly a young (Aryan) lieutenant at her disposal. Here is one of her most famous songs ‘Beautiful girl’ which featured in a Sasha Baron Cohen’s movie. Indian viewers can check if they understand her lyrics.

  349. @Anthropologiek

    Most of the Carthaginians just remained where they lived, as attested by bilingual inscriptions in later centuries, but a significant number obviously moved to southern Italy. Among them a wealthy family named Caesar – from the Punic word for “elephant” (probably ultimately from Sanskrit “gajar”); everybody’s favourite Roman still issued coins with an elephant on them – that went on to intermarry with the Roman gens Iulia.

  350. Gym 说:

    Austrian swords were garbage until we showed you layering and heating techniques. We showed you how to take out slag. We taught you about impact, we taught you how to sharpen. We showed the Arabs too advancements in metallurgy are on a chart along with our migration.

  351. @repugnant

    Not true about Maoris. They were/are a tribal settled people and definitely own land, vast swathes of it and are trying to get even more back from our cuck governments. Source: am a part-Maori Kiwi.

  352. @simple mind

    白人的问题是谁是他们的敌人。 很明显,犹太人自称是白人的敌人,也是历史上最成功的文明。 犹太人一直是白人文明的高度破坏性寄生拖累。 犹太人是敌人。 他们将非白人武装起来对抗白人。 犹太人可能非常成功,但他们利用这种成功对白人施加了苏维埃式的暴政。 仅仅因为犹太人很强大并不意味着他们不是需要被摧毁的邪恶的左翼 POS。

  353. Mefobills 说:
    @bwuce wee

    i already refuted your BS with another post, which somehow got tacked on to another commenter in this same thread, but i will respond to you again, since you are still whining about your defeat:

    The above statement proves that you are an asshole, and only worried about winning, and not learning.

    You didn’t refute anything. You never wanted to learn, because you are so self righteous in your ignorance.

    The fascist system was government OVER corporations. This is the OPPOSITE of corporatocracy.

    Corporations were allowed to exist but they DID NOT call the shots.

    Do you think the rich industrialists were all warm and fuzzy inside when Mussolini nationalized the banks in 1926?

    Corporatism is a word Mussolini used, and the word relates to corporeal, or of the body. Fascisim was an attempt to get one body to work together.

    Fasces are a bunch of sticks bound together because they are stronger together than individually. Corporatism is of the body, all the parts working together, and made stronger. Fascism is not rule by hidden oligarchs working to self aggrandize.

    Both NSDAP Germany and Fascist Italy were attacked by finance capitalist corporatocracies – i.e. the West. Neither NSDAP Germany nor Fascist Italy were the aggressors.

    They were a threat to the hidden finance Oligarchs of the west.

  354. karel 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    From your statement that

    “Duh” in Serbian or “duch” in Czech, Polish, Slovak= “Ghost”, but “prizrak” in Russian and Bulgarian

    I can conclude that your knowledge of foreign laguages is somewhat limited.

    In Czech, you will find quite a few more words for a ghost than just 精神, e.g. přelud, strašidlo, bubák, mulisák, zjevení and přízrak. So it is not true that appears only in Russian.

    The conflation of a ghost with a guest is nonsensical. There is no h in Serbian, Bulgarian and Russian, but it is present in Czech and Slovak. In Czech 主持人 is a guest and hostitel means a host. Hence, the confusion arose from the strange habit of the English and Germans twisting the H into G, as if they wanted to follow the Russian pronunciation.

    In latin a guest means, hospite. So, no fkn. G. The Latin expressions for a host are 医院 有时 练习. My Latin is elementary, if someone is more competent, please contribute.

  355. karel 说:
    @Peter Rabbit

    No. Some do others do not. Have you been to India?

    • 回复: @Peter Rabbit
  356. karel 说:
    @Odyssey

    Stop pretending that Russian is like Czech. Věd in Czech is not identical to veď, even though it may seem the same to you. Vědět means to know, whereas veď is an imperative of the verb vesti, i.e to lead. Perhaps you may have already learned that shit is somewhat different from a sheet.

    I presume that Czech bears know where the honey is but will not reveal their secret whereas a good Russian bear will lead you directly to the place where the honey is hidden.

  357. @Anonymous

    Gypsies were not accepted into the Soviet armed forces. For Timur, there were better candidates for enslavement than Gypsies.

  358. @karel

    “Some do some do not.” Who said all look one way or another? Have to you been to school? I have been to India and it is one country, besides Saudi Arabia, that I do not look forward to returning to.

    • 回复: @karel
  359. Odyssey 说:
    @karel

    Čapek, what’s wrong with you? Do you hate Russians so much that you prefer to be related to Gypsies? Maybe Larry was right, so, if Gypsies like Plzen beer, they are definitely crypto Czechs. Has Catholicism destroyed yours and Polish brains as it did in Croats’ case? Though, I find humorous that Czech bears know where honey is, but they keep this secret for themselves, while Putin’s bears are led by honey (i.e., ‘honey focused’).

    CM did a great job considering the circumstances. You disagree that ‘ghost’ and ‘guest’ came from Serbian ‘gost’? ‘Duh’ is also one of Serbian words which was adopted in many non-Slavic languages. You can tell us about the origins of the Czech language (and ‘veda’), that would contribute to this discussion. Maybe it really came, as CM speculates for some words, from Punjab? Btw, I was trying to remember if there is any Gypsy word in Serbian and I found one which is used in Serbian slang – минџа, i.e., mindža (pron. dž = as ‘G’ in George) and it means ‘pussy’.

    • 回复: @karel
  360. @Malla

    King Vlad Tepis would be celebrated as a great hero. All of Christian Europe should have been celebrating him, all the way to Iceland. But Christian Whitey erroneously believes that niceness & self-criticism will change your enemy’s heart.

    Well Vlad believed that you can change their heart.

    A spike through their bowels and into the heart will do that.

  361. @karel

    I noticed a few other words of interest. “Chao” for tea; in Mandarin, tea is ‘cha’.

    And I noticed сметана. The dictionary I have, says this is ‘cream’ in Czech, but ‘sour cream’ in Russian and Ukrainian. But I’m not sure that’s correct. I was fluent in both those languages and we used сметана for cream. I used to speak some Romanian, and they use smântână for cream, which must have the same root; but they also use cremă which must be from English.

    “In latin a guest means, hospite. The Latin expressions for a host are hospes or sometimes exercitus.”

    I thought ‘guest’ in Latin was hospes and ‘host’ was exercitus. “Hospite” is the Ablative for ‘hospes’, no? Can’t recall for sure.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
    , @karel
  362. Jason și Lâna de Aur – Jason and the Golden Fleece

    This is an irrelevant aside, but maybe interesting. A version of Jason and the Golden Fleece did exist in Romania.

    Many years ago all gold panning was reserved for the King, citizens being forbidden to collect it. Too bad, because some of the small rivers contained quite a lot of alluvial gold. As a work-around, many Romanians built small mills on the banks of these little rivers, with the requisite paddle-wheel, but constructed so the operator had to stand in the river (waist-deep) to run the mill. It was understandable that they would wear heavy sheepskin leggings to protect them from the cold water.

    But the lanolin in the wool proved to be a magnet for the little gold flakes sifting down the river and, at the end of each day, the mill operators would return home and comb all the gold out of their leggings. Apparently sufficient to be profitable and worth doing. The little mills still exist in places.

  363. Odyssey 说:

    May I jump in? In Serbia this sour cream is known as pavlaka or mileram. The second name is similar to the German’s Millirahm (milk cream). If you need non sour cream (usually used for pastries or coffee) you must emphasize – ‘sweet pavlaka’.

    There is also ‘kaymak’ or ‘skorup’ – a similar dairy product with a creamy structure, pleasant sour taste and characteristic aroma. It is obtained by collecting fat that accumulates on the surface of cooked and chilled milk which ferments for several hours or days (young or old cream). ‘Skorup is a word of Slavic origin and it means the upper side, the crust, and refers to the fat that is on the surface of the milk. Some authors state that the crust has been produced since ancient times in Slavic tribes, so it could be considered an autochthonous product of the Slavic peoples, as indicated by the area of production and the similarity of the names associated with the appearance of bark.

    这种特产,或多或少有区别,传统上产于巴尔干半岛、中东、中亚、伊朗、阿富汗、印度、蒙古,但也产于英格兰(德文郡奶油)、前苏联国家和其他国家。

    在塞尔维亚听或谈论伏尔塔瓦河时使用“斯美塔那”。

    • 回复: @Wielgus
  364. @karel

    In English too you can find many more words for ghost: spirit, phantasm, phantom, apparition, spectre. So? I was specifically asked about “ghost” so I tried my best. I am no etymologist, as I suppose none of us are so we’re guessing here.

    • 同意: Odyssey
  365. @Larry Romanoff

    In Hindi tea is “Chay” so it’s similar to Chinese and as apparently tea originated in China so did the word. In Slavic languages it is almost exclusively pronounced as the Hindi word so the origin must be from India.

    Apparently the English used “cha” early on from the Portuguese but switched to “tea” later on from Malay which originated from another Chinese dialect, Min.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_tea

    Although tea and herbal infusions were first recorded in China I should think that it could have been invented independently in many other regions. Apparently herbal infusions were popular in Europe in medieval times. It would be interesting if the Gypsies had anything to do with the spread of herbalism from India to Europe, even before tea was brought over by the Western explorers. Furthermore little is made of the possible transfer of Asian products and technologies by the Huns and Mongols on their conquests, and this was probably significant in Russia and Eastern Europe. Maybe much of what was claimed by Western explorers was already brought over earlier via Russia and Eastern Europe.

  366. karel 说:
    @Peter Rabbit

    Ok, Rabbit. I do not care who said what. It is may own experience.

  367. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    I noticed a few other words of interest. “Chao” for tea; in Mandarin, tea is ‘cha’. I

    In Czech tea is 恰伊. When pronounced the sound is similar to Chinese and most Chinese will understand what you mean. In any case, I doubt the possibility that Gypsies adopted their version directly from Chinese.

    斯美塔那 in Czech means cream. It is a common name and it would sound rather funny if it meant sour cream.

  368. karel 说:
    @Odyssey

    Do you hate Russians so much that you prefer to be related to Gypsies? Maybe Larry was right, so, if Gypsies like Plzen beer, they are definitely crypto Czechs.

    I dont want to be related to anyone. You should start drinking Prazdroj to become more gypsi-like or a crypto Czech. It may improve your mind.

  369. @Anne Lid

    The English gipsies/travellers I saw were different looking, and I think they are more like an offshoot of some local people, separated from the rest by lifestyle and marrying among themselves.

    Romanies in the UK were there for a long time, with little contact with their European relatives, so were “relatively” law-abiding, especially compared with their Eastern European brethren. Then the UK joined the EU and the EU opened to Eastern Europe.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/police-seize-mattresses-as-70-romanian-travellers-are-moved-on-from-park-lane-8659128.html

    Police and council officers today seized bedding from Romanian travellers camped in Park Lane in the latest effort to prevent people sleeping rough in the West End. Officials confiscated mattresses, cardboard and pieces of old carpet that were being used in the makeshift camp in the central reservation. Onlookers counted more than 70 travellers who were moved on today.

    They are all believed to be Romanians linked to begging gangs. Such gangs have been linked to pickpocketing, shoplifting and scams such as pretending to have found a “gold” ring which is then sold for £20.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/travellers-return-park-lane-traders-say-street-is-a-slum-9684861.html

    Traders in Park Lane have accused foreign travellers of turning their shopping parade into a “slum” after they returned to sleep rough on their doorsteps. Just months after police, council and immigration officials cleared the area, the group has come back to Mayfair to set up camp every night with their makeshift beds and their suitcases in tow.

    The community, believed to be Romanian and Bosnian, has swelled to around 40 people, including elderly men and women, and has now spilled over into a neighbouring subway. Today traders along Park Lane complained the group uses a covered area as a toilet and leave mountains of rubbish outside their shopfronts.

    Round our way they do the “Big Issue” sales – a lady in a headscarf gets dropped off by car and collected in the afternoon by a minder – and the men do worse stuff like snatching cash as women (always women and preferably elderly) are withdrawing it from ATMs.

    The Victorian diarist George Borrow was fascinated by the Romani, travelled with them and wrote a lot about them, all available here.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/4383

    Here’s his description, from I Zingali.

    Having in various and distant countries lived in habits of intimacy with these people, I have come to the following conclusions respecting them: that wherever they are found, their manners and customs are virtually the same, though somewhat modified by circumstances, and that the language they speak amongst themselves, and of which they are particularly anxious to keep others in ignorance, is in all countries one and the same, but has been subjected more or less to modification; and lastly, that their countenances exhibit a decided family resemblance, but are darker or fairer according to the temperature of the climate, but invariably darker, at least in Europe, than those of the natives of the countries in which they dwell, for example, England and Russia, Germany and Spain.

    The names by which they are known differ with the country, though, with one or two exceptions, not materially for example, they are styled in Russia, Zigáni; in Turkey and Persia, Zingarri; and in Germany, Zigeuner; all which words apparently spring from the same etymon, which there is no improbability in supposing to be ‘Zincali,’ a term by which these people, especially those of Spain, sometimes designate themselves, and the meaning of which is believed to be, The black men of Zend or Ind. In England and Spain they are commonly known as Gypsies and Gitános, from a general belief that they were originally Egyptians, to which the two words are tantamount; and in France as Bohemians, from the circumstance that Bohemia was one of the first countries in civilised Europe where they made their appearance.

    But they generally style themselves and the language which they speak, Rommany. This word, of which I shall ultimately have more to say, is of Sanscrit origin, and signifies, The Husbands, or that which pertaineth unto them. From whatever motive this appellation may have originated, it is perhaps more applicable than any other to a sect or caste like them, who have no love and no affection beyond their own race; who are capable of making great sacrifices for each other, and who gladly prey upon all the rest of the human species, whom they detest, and by whom they are hated and despised.

    And this was a man who loved them, but he was pretty clear-eyed about it.

    “Irish travellers” are an even worse bunch, not in any way related to the Romani, but more violent. Here’s a Victorian Welshman speaking to Borrow.

    We continued our way, and presently saw marks of a fire in some grass by the side of the road. “Have the Gipsiaid been there?” said I to my guide.

    “Hardly, sir; I should rather think that the Gwyddeliad (Irish) have been camping there lately.”

    “Gwyddeliad?”

    “是的,长官,流浪者 Gwyddeliad,目前在这些地方肆虐,造成的伤害比 Gipsiaid 曾经做过的多得多。”

    “你说的Gipsiaid是什么意思?”

    “先生,黑色的,英俊的人,偶尔会开着货车和手推车来,男人买卖马匹,有时修修补补,而女人则算命。”

    “他们已经停止出现了?”

    “差不多,先生; 我相信他们已经被 Gwyddelod 吓跑了。”

    “What kind of people are these Gwyddelod?”

    “野蛮的,野蛮的人,先生; 一般没有鞋子和袜子,五官粗糙,头发像拖把一样。”

    “他们怎么生活?”

    “The men tinker a little, sir, but more frequently plunder. The women tell fortunes, and steal whenever they can.”

    “他们的生活就像吉普赛德一样。”

    “Something, sir; but the 母鸡 (old) Gipsiaid were gentlefolks in comparison.”

    “你认为吉普赛德人已经被高德利人吓跑了?”

    “我愿意,先生; 大约 XNUMX 年前,Gwyddelod 出现在这些地方,从那时起,Gipsiaid 就很少见到了。”

    “这些Gwyddelod很穷吗?”

    “绝对没有,先生; 他们通过掠夺和其他方式赚了大钱,据说,他们最终退休到自己的国家或美国,在那里购买土地并定居下来。”

    • 谢谢: Larry Romanoff
  370. Wielgus 说:
    @Odyssey

    奶油 是土耳其语,意为“奶油”。 奥斯曼帝国时期对巴尔干美食产生了一些影响。

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  371. @Wielgus

    “Kaymak is Turkish for “cream”. The Ottoman period had some influence on Balkan cuisine.”

    我对此感到惊讶。 巴尔干半岛也受到土耳其语的影响。 罗马尼亚语采用了土耳其语,我怀疑其他语言也受到了类似的影响。 在巴尔干半岛追踪土耳其语、拉丁语,也许还有梵语或印地语的共同元素会很有趣。

  372. Liquid Eyes

    This is one more aside, irrelevant to the topic of Gypsies, and that is the eyes of Romanian girls.

    This does not apply to all females in Romania, but still to a large number. There are no words, no adjectives, to describe the eyes of this group of Romanian girls, but they are beautiful beyond compare. These girls were treasured for espionage during WWII because it was said “Those Romanian girls, with their liquid eyes, could seduce anyone.”

    This is not a fantasy, and the effect does not show in photos; it is something that must be seen and, so far as I know, is a phenomenon that exists no place else. Their beauty is stunning in a way that defies description. It is almost worth the price of a plane ticket to Romania just to see these eyes.

  373. Odyssey 说:

    Considering that Serbia is geographically positioned on crossroads, it was exposed to various influences. Its cuisine is very rich and adopted many names and dishes – Hungarian, Greek, Turkish, German, Italian. Regarding the languages, Serbian language is older in comparison to all mentioned. For e.g. the Latin language originated and developed within the Serbian language and it adopted many Serbian words. We already mentioned that Sanskrit is the SAsian local version of the Aryans’ language. CM speculated that Gypsies may brought some Sanskrit words to Europe, but they could not transfer one-third of Sanskrit to Serbian. The original Romanian language was also a Dacian version of Serbian. Jesuits created artificial Romanian nation and enforced the artificial language 160 years ago. All toponyms were Serbian, and they were replaced in the process of ‘Romanisation’.

    Still, there are 9000 Serbian words in Romanian, which sometimes is called – Esperanto on Serbian basis. Romanians since their Christianisation until 1924 officially belonged to the Serbian Orthodox Church. Vlad Tepes was a Vlach-Serb (maybe because Malla has sympathies for him, considering that she and her family are Aryans descendants; the blood is not water). Vatican (Jesuits) has been trying for centuries to separate Serbs from Russians and because they created Romania to be an enemy of Russia. Almost 160K Romanians died under Stalingrad. It would be interested to find out why Gypsies are so widespread in Romania and why they feel there at home.

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  374. @奥德赛

    There is a strong Latin influence in the Romanian language and the official position is that it descended from Latin. Since Romanians are Orthodox it would be strange if they adopted Latin much later on, as you claim, or that Jesuits imparted such a strong influence. Some Slav nations are Catholic, from Poles to Croats, yet they did not adopt Latin, so why should Romanians have done that at such a later date? One would have thought that Catholic Slavs would have adopted Latin, at least from the original mass, but they didn’t.

    Certainly it is odd that Hungarians and Romanians have different languages from the rest of the region, and different from each other, while I suppose they are predominantly Slavic peoples in their origin.

    About Gypsies I mentioned that they may have contributed some words to languages of regions they passed through. It is obvious that they couldn’t have had any educational role or major influences on the languages or cultures of those regions. The Churches played that most significant role but obviously not so much among Slav Catholics while the Romanians are for some reason the strangest in that respect. Latin was the official language during the Roman empire yet its influence is now greatest in the far Eastern Romanian reaches of that empire and least among the Slovenes and Croats so much closer to the Roman centre. The theory that Slavs came to the Balkans much later than you suggest could explain this, while perhaps more of the original Balkan people remained in Romania.

    BTW Vincha script, also called Danube script, was widespread not just in Serbia but beyond, and especially in Romania. I think it is treated seriously in Romanian and USA academic circles, probably more so than in Serbia.

    https://www.academia.edu/8699334/Contents_of_the_book_Neo-Eneolithic_Literacy_in_Southeastern_Europe

    Serbian historians tend to be disparaging and dismissive about the Vincha script.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:JNFEHY8GS8MJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&t=1651642849104&u=%23p%3DNO1wFbOFFSIJ

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:JNFEHY8GS8MJ:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&t=1651643001518&u=%23p%3DJNFEHY8GS8MJ

    • 回复: @Malla
  375. @Odyssey

    [ … from the Book of Srb; 带来了 ]

    [1] Before anything was, the Serb was.
    [2] All the creation myths of Ymir, Purusha, Tiamat etc. are just the lesser peoples´
    garbled memories of the Primal Serb.
    [3] The Serb – and not those heeb impostors – is also the true People of the Book.
    [4] Prometheus, Thot and Huang Feng were obviously culture-purveying Serbs
    later worshipped as deities.
    [5] Jimmu Tenno (a fugitive flunky from the court of the great Serb Qin Shi-huangdi)
    vanquished a preexisting Serbian high civilization and their progeny, by still eating
    dogs and bears and speaking Serbian, give testament to the erstwhile extent.

    Inhaled a bit too deeply from Karadjordje´s cannon haven´t we.

    But seriously …
    – the Vinca culture 做了 extend a lot further east than previously believed;
    if Ramzan Kadyrow lays claim to it I´m willing to listen (well, not really).
    – the Ainu likely learned Serbian from Croatian (= really Serbian) auxiliaries in the
    Austronesian army.
    – the mighty Serb kingdom – from Stepan Dusan to the battle on the Kosovo Polje –
    lasted 20 years; leaving the Austrians – who never had a king – in the dust and
    yellow with envy.
    – the language is the Kraljevic Marko´s rendering of Church Slavonic i.e. no
    less artificial than German or Latin.
    – the stock is more effortlessly explained by 原位 reciprocal rape
    (as described by Gregor v. Rezzori) among Shqiptars, Csigans, Turks and Sfaradim.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  376. @nokangaroos

    You forgot the greatest Serbian emperor, even before Alexander the Great, Nino Belov – Ninus, or was it Nimrod? They even claim Japanese Ainu are Serbian. Well, may as well claim everything, lol.

  377. @奥德赛

    Then there are the Dom people in the Middle East with their Domari language. Apparently they are not Gypsies, although there are similarities and they too originated from India.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people

    Strangely “Dom” means “home” in Slavic languages and “Domari” means “janitors” in Serbian. Can we read anything into this?

    Etymology definitely proves links and influences between languages but sometimes same or similar words in different languages can be coincidental. There are only so many sounds and syllables that can be produced and strung together, and coincidences could be more likely with shorter words like “Dom”.

    Consider the dominance of English, especially in technical terms – so should some alien in the future visit Earth he may conclude that English is the source language because of same and similar words in so many other languages. Sometimes we may be reading too much into all this.

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  378. Sparkon 说:

    The underlying problem is that much of the early language creation, along with unknown amounts of mixing and synthesis, all took place in the prehistoric era.

    Anything men said back then, for long eons, was written only on the wind.

    Men didn’t begin to write in more or less permanent form until about 5,000 years ago, but by then, the spoken languages were already highly developed. We can only guess how long men had been yakking so eloquently. Language itself seemingly developed from a set or system of grunts, groans, shouts and what have you, and was developed and preserved, with all the grammar and inflections, in a process that must have taken a very long time before men arrived at the stage of 谁谁.

    How would you maintain a large vocabulary for a language without writing? Maybe there was a small group of enduring core words, say 50 to 100, while with everything else, they just made it up with neologisms as they went along. Some people love to do that, you know.

    Some words caught on and became more universal for unknown reasons, maybe simply because they sounded good or made people laugh or grin. Or perhaps it followed the Rule of the Bludgeon: Say it my way or I smash your head. Maybe the Witch Doctors were the first language police, who knows?

    Finally, two short takes to close it out: Did man run before he walked, and more to the point, did he sing before he talked?

  379. Mermade 说: • 您的网站
    @Larry Romanoff

    I don’t think gypsys are from Indian origins. Indian people look very different in aparance and they are pretty much the same dark eyes dark hair and darkish skin and even if born and raise in Western countries, they are not diverse in aparence it is very easy to recognize them. Gypsys are different. They are very diverse within their race. They have dark eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes actually the most beautiful true green eyes are gypsy’s eyes. Some have darkish skin and others have white skin. Some have even blond hair or light brown hair. This is very true I was born in Romania and live there for 28 years. I went to school with them and was no way to know if they were Gypsies unless they will tell us. They spoke perfect Romanian with no accent at all. They will live next to you and you could not tell if they were Gypsies. Most of them will not tell you. There were also those on the streets beging women wearing the Gypsy long skirts and ” Batic” covering their heads and men with black hats that made it ovious they were Gypsys. But they too some were brunets with darkish skin and some were blonds with blue eyes or green eyes. The only thing that we were able to tell if they were Gypsies was the type of clothes they were wearing, they often talk in their own language and they were living in areas specifically created for them where they actually have houses not tents. Yes the houses were kind of rundown and the community was very very poor. But there where they lived. Most of them were selling flowers others were beging which was very common and maybe stilling. But stilling was difficult in Romania during the communist regime because Gypsies were really kept in leash. They were throwing in prison the same day for many years . There were not such thing like hearing or trial like here. So my point is that Gypsies are very diverse as a race vs Indian people who all are brunet and have dark skin. No matter what clothes they put on and have no Indian accent they still look the same and one can tell. If you meet an Indian person not wearing the typical Indian dressing you can tell is not a white person but if you meet a Gypsy not wearing typical dressing and is white with light hair and blue eyes you can tell if is Gypsy unless he or she tells you. Also most of the Gypsies dress normal except for those in Gypsies communities where no one goes. This information is not from research is from first hand knowledge and completely 100% accurate.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
    , @flash
    , @karel
  380. Odyssey 说:

    It seems that some, not having any specific knowledge or (counter)arguments, are trying to use provocations to ruin this discussion and this good topic. They ignore the distinction, which I emphasized, between the oldest name which proto-Slavics used for themselves (Srb) and one of their modern successors (modern Serbs or Czechs, or Slovaks, or Russians or whoever).
    Some assertions can be discussed or challenged but let repeat only couple unambiguous pillars:

    1. Aryans were proto-Slavics and 16% of modern Indians have this genetic
    2. Aryan language and Rg Veda after 4000 years are still the most similar (1/3 of Sanskrit) to modern Serbian and other Slavic languages (comment #211 is a short illustration)
    3. All Slavic languages developed from Serbian language
    So, anyone can make any assertions considering the previous. Or – the bravest can try to challenge any of previous points and propose something different.

    CM >>> good research, but some points are missing. You almost answered your own dilemmas. Isn’t it strange that Aurelian retreated from today’s Romania in 271AC and that the local language became influenced by Latin in the 19th c.AC? You already mentioned that this population (Romanian/Hungarian) were mostly Slavic. Which language these Slavic spoke in the meantime before Jesuits enforced new Latin-like Romanian language about 1600 years ago (Vatican’s ‘East Latins’ project)? Romans held 17% of today’s Romania for 160 years – is this enough to enforce Latin language on 100%? It would mean that not all East Germans than the whole united Germany now would be speaking Russian.

    It seems you don’t know about Jesuit’s activities in Romania and their several hundreds of years effort to make Vatican’s janissaries, taking youths to Paris to learn new Romanian language and sending them back home to speak new language. Their next stop of this millennial policy is Ukraine, listen what is Pope talking today and what was happening there in last 8 or 20 years. To which church Romanians belonged until 1924 (when was bought the tomos from Fanar). The head office of this church was in Alba Julia (before romanisation – Belgrade).

    Anyway, some genuine researchers would be interested in 3 min presentation by Harold Harman about the oldest European civilisation, which cradle we can watch while we listen the most beautiful Serbian waltz (composed by a Serbian Gastarbeiter in Romania).

    (or, for those who like Andre Rieu’s version – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7MDVGNBYIQ)

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  381. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM – if Dom people are ‘Indo-Aryan people who speak Indo-Aryan language’, what do you think – where this name came from? What is Indo-Aryan? Sanskrit? What about ‘domus’ (Latin) or ‘domestic’?

    What Google (Mariam-Webster) says about ‘dom’:
    “Where does the root word dom come from?
    Many of those words — such as domestic, domicile, domain, and even condominium — share a common root with a very long history: dom-. Domus (δόμος) means “house” in Greek, and Latin borrowed it, but its origins go much further back in time: all the way to the stone age!”

    Or, maybe something more interesting.
    What does it mean STAN in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kurdistan, Tajikistan, Kirgizstan, Kazakhstan, Rajasthan, Hindustan, Turkmenistan, etc… and where it came from?

  382. @Odyssey

    What does it mean STAN in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kurdistan, Tajikistan, Kirgizstan, Kazakhstan, Rajasthan, Hindustan, Turkmenistan, etc… and where it came from?

    It’s from Persian and Persian-influenced Turkic languages – a place or country full of or abounding in – so Afghanistan is a place full of Afghans!

    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @flash
    , @karel
  383. @Odyssey

    I don’t know much about the development of the Romanian language other than what I picked up looking at Wikipedia, but still I don’t understand why the Jesuits and the Vatican picked on Romania for latinisation of their language but not on any other Slavic nation including the Catholic ones.

    • 回复: @Wielgus
  384. @Mermade

    Indians are very diverse. You should watch Bollywood and Indian TV – there are a lot of white looking people there who you wouldn’t know that they were Indian unless they told you so. Not all Indians are black or dark. Especially in the north you get some that look like Persian, Arab, or even European and some that look Mongol or Chinese.

    • 回复: @Malla
  385. @Odyssey

    In most Slavic languages “stan” is “apartment” but in Chech and Slovak it means “tent”. I suppose “abode” would be a good translation. So like abode of the Afganis, Pakis, Uzbeks, etc., etc.

    There is “stan” in Istanbul but it has nothing to do with this.

    Some of this stuff is hard to prove. Malla at least thinks your theory could be correct.

  386. Anonymous[164]• 免责声明 说:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Apparently, it’s an ancient Indo European suffix related to the Anglo Saxon suffix ‘ -ton’ as in Brixton, Sutton, Newington etc, a thousand English place names and surnames.

    It simply means ‘settlement of’.

  387. flash 说:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Stan is borrowed from Sanskrit स्थान (sthā́na). Cognate with Avestan (stāna), Persian ستان‎ (-estân, “place”). It means a ‘place’ or ‘land of’, as in Afghani-stan or the land of Afghans and so on.

  388. flash 说:
    @Mermade

    The peoples of the NW India (both Pakistan and India sides) have green, blue, gray, hazel, brown eyes and any mixture of these. They also have hair color ranging from a darkish blond to red, brown, copper all the way to dark hair. They also range in skin color from the lightest to wheatish. My own family has many with the most beautiful blue eyes, green gray, pure green, and amber eyes.I was born with red-gold hair that faded into a dark brown with undertones of red, as I grew up. I have the pale skin tone that goes with red hair. There is great diversity among the people of NW India, as well as the rest of India. They don’t all look alike, though it may seem that way to you.

  389. Wielgus 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    罗马尼亚语源自拉丁语——除非你算上摩尔多瓦语,否则东欧唯一的这种语言。 与耶稣会士无关。 罗马尼亚人大多是东正教。
    阿尔巴尼亚语有大量拉丁语或罗曼语词源,以至于该语言有时被称为“半罗曼语”,尽管英语也可以这样说。 然而,语法的核心不是来自拉丁语。

  390. @Wielgus

    罗马尼亚语的语法结构可能来自拉丁语,至少是名词变格。 西里尔语言具有相同的结构,至少是俄语和乌克兰语。 他们是从拉丁语中采用的吗? 其他语言有这样做过吗?

    • 回复: @Wielgus
  391. @Wielgus

    Does Hungarian really have 18 cases? Why would that happen? Also, I was surprised that Mongolian had noun declensions. I wouldn’t have expected Mongolian to copy this grammatical structure.

  392. Odyssey 说:
    @Odyssey

    Well, I see very productive discussion regarding STAN. Will comment on this considering that today is my ‘slava’ St George (comment #363) and I am a bit busy. All readers are invited to be gosts, ghosts or guests and experience traditional Serbian hospitality. A glass or two of ‘MEDovina’ for everyone and the real candy will be in at the end of my STAN’s comment.

    Before that, just to address previous CM’ s visionary comment re ‘dom’. Google says (#404) that “its origins go much further back in time: all the way to the stone age”! It means that it is not a Greek, nor Latin nor Indian word. It is a Neolithic word. Where was neolith? In LepenskiVir/Vincha. Which language originated there? Vincha language i.e., protoSrb i.e. or protoSlavic. What is the link btw Latin and Sanskrit? Only possible answer is – Serbian language. What is the link btw Greek and Sanskrit? Non-existent, Greeks even do not believe that Aryans ever existed because, at that time, they did not exist, either.

    Can we say that ‘dom’ is and ‘indo-european’ word/language? Everyone would say – yes – but it cannot be the case. Why? Because ‘Indo-Europeans’ (Yamnaya nomads) came to Europe in 2800-2500BC what is after the stone age. In addition, they were nomads, did not know for metals, agriculture and did not know to build houses, so, they did not have a word for ‘dom’. Ergo, CM independently, on his own, came to the same conclusion as I did before. Namely, (1) ‘dom’ is a protoSrb word which Aryans brought to India and, (2 )the mainstream term ‘indo-european’ is a crap.

  393. Odyssey 说:

    It was recently a global discussion in The Guardian about the meaning of STAN in the names of many Asian countries but without much success. One version was that it came from Town >…> Stan. There is a similar version mentioned here (-ton).

    It is obvious that it has a Sanskrit origin. Sanskrit and Avestan were brought by Aryans. As I said before, Sanskrit and modern Serbian have thousands of identical or almost identical words with only one or two letters of difference.

    Well, STAN is a frequently used word in modern Serbian language. The meaning is – the place of living. For example, ‘gde STANujes?’ means, ‘where do you leave?’ It is now used in the meaning of apartment/flat/unit. For example, commonly is used as: I leave in 2-bedroom STAN, I am renting a STAN in Kiev, I bought a STAN facing the nice park, the government builds 1000 STAN-s for public servants, etc. Sometimes it has the same meaning as House or Home but not always. Not every Stan is a home, you may have several STAN-s and you may or may not feel that it is your Home.
    STAN 衍生出数百个单词。 例如,STAN-iste 表示栖息地,即不仅适用于人类,也适用于植物和动物。
    Ergo, the meaning of Afghanistan, for e.g, is – ‘the place where Afghans (Hindu, Kurds, Kazakhs, etc.) live’.

    The previous can be a part of sc. Indo-European discussion. Can anyone connect this meaning with Yamnaya (sc. ‘Indo-European’) language or any other language which allegedly succeeded from Yamnaya? It would be a paradox (as in the case of ‘dom’) considering that Yamnaya were nomads without fixed place of living.

    The meaning of the Serbian ‘stan’ is – ‘stop’. It came probably in ancient times when nomads on the move at some moment stopped and settled somewhere, making there their ‘stan’. There are many personal names/surnames containing ‘stan’ (Stanko, Stankovic, etc).
    I am surprised that the role of Jesuits in Romania is very little known. I may write couple words before Larry closes his shop.

    What about promised candy? For today is to find the meaning of BERG (or burg, borg) which is present in many names and toponyms (Heidelberg, Wittenberg, Bergen, St Peterburg, Goteborg, Hamburg, Wahlberg, Gutenberg, Magdeburg, etc.)

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  394. Wielgus 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    原始印欧语似乎有一个复杂的变格系统。 随着时间的推移,有些人已经摆脱了它。 罗马尼亚语最近的现代亲戚是意大利语,除非你算上罗马尼亚语,它基本上是在希腊、塞尔维亚等地使用的一系列罗马尼亚方言。
    一位在齐奥塞斯库下台和死亡的动荡中前往布加勒斯特的英国记者说,他以前从未听过的罗马尼亚语听起来像是世界语和意大利语的混合体。 托洛茨基在 1912 年左右参加了在布加勒斯特举行的罗马尼亚社会主义会议,并评论了该语言基本上听起来像浪漫的特征,尽管其中混入了相当多的斯拉夫语词汇。

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  395. karel 说:
    @Mermade

    You probably have not read my comment concerning gypsy beggers in Tamil Nadu. They look much more like Gypsies in Europe than the local Tamils. I still have to meet a Gypsy with blue eyes, but perhaps my grandmother, who had blue eyes, was a crypto-gypsy and we have never discovered her true identity.

    The numerous Gypsies, I see in Prague hanging around my local metro startion come in different sizes and facial features. Some look very gypsy-like others do not. As they always move in large groups you can tell that they are all Gypsies even though you can notice the divergent facial appearance of siblings or members of a larger clan. This largely depends on who their real father was. Many prostitutes and most of their children have light complexion and European features. Czech gypsies who emigrated to the UK were often thought by the natives to be Indians. So forget the accuracy of your ”first hand knowledge” as you are not the only observer in town.

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
    , @nokangaroos
  396. karel 说:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    有趣的, 斯坦 in Czech means a tent. This can be taken as an evidence that there is not much place in the Czech Rep.

  397. Reaper 说:
    @RoatanBill

    这就是我们在欧洲常说的:
    We do n0t have (US type) negros – but we have gypsies.
    Actually one of their modern nickname is “meadow-niggers”

  398. @karel

    “I still have to meet a Gypsy with blue eyes . . .”

    I appreciated seeing those comments. It’s interesting how different our experiences can be. In Italy, I saw many Gypsies with blue or green (sometimes) eyes, many with fair complexions and who could have easily passed for Italian or Russian. And yet there were some who were swarthy, like those in the Bond movie “From Russia with love”, and some almost undefinable. Those in Romania looked mostly very different from the Gypsies in Italy, much more “Gypsyish”.

    I have not seen the Gypsies from South America, but these appear to be typical photos:

    • 回复: @karel
    , @karel
  399. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    In Italy, I saw many Gypsies with blue or green (sometimes) eyes, many with fair complexions and who could have easily passed for Italian or Russian.

    Very well, but I hope that you will find somewhere a picture of a blue-eyed Gypsy. Those on the pics above do not seem to have them.

    How do you insert pics into your comment window? I still have not mastered it.

    If I may, I would recommend acquiring a publication by Josef Koudelka that has, in my opinion the best pics. collection of Gypsies. Apart from the Czech version, it is available in many languages. Unfortunately it is in black and white so that you will find no blue eyes there.

    这是一个视频

    .

  400. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    also, I recommend

    Nikos Economopoulos gypsies in greece

  401. @karel

    I will see if I can find some photos of blue-eyed Gypsies to post.

    To include a photo in a comment, just paste in the URL of the photo. For example:

    h*ttps://www.gettyimages/gypsies.jpg (ignore the asterisk. It’s there to prevent the program from looking for a photo that doesn’t exist.)

    I will try to find the publication you suggested.

  402. @karel

    I don’t know if this might be of interest to you, but one small enjoyment with languages is identifying a person’s native language, and often their ethnic origin by the grammatical errors they make when speaking (or writing) in a second language.

    For example, native Russians for whom English is a second language, will make grammatical errors. Native Chinese for whom English is a second language will also make grammatical errors but these will be quite different from those made by the Russians. This has proven useful in assessing online comments made by persons pretending to be of a particular ethnic group. Often, they have no useful knowledge of their ‘pretend’ language and the errors they make will give them away.

    • 回复: @karel
  403. Odyssey 说:
    @Wielgus

    你,一个英国人和托洛茨基共同总结了我提到的——罗马尼亚语是塞尔维亚语基础上的世界语。 “其中混入了很多斯拉夫语词汇”——这个“斯拉夫语”是塞尔维亚语,这是可以理解的,因为有几个人已经提到他们基本上是斯拉夫语(即塞尔维亚人)。 我们可以读到奥维德在康斯坦萨流放时的来信,他在那里写了当地语言。 作为梵蒂冈主要战略的一部分,罗马尼亚语是人造的,与拉丁语、意大利语、法语相似。

    How do we know that ‘original Indo-European seems to have had a complex declension system, with time some have shed it (???).’ Who are the IE originals? Yamnaya nomads who lived as isolated families, which economy was based on few domesticated animals and these families followed them around the steppe. They did not know for agriculture, metals, trades, houses, etc but the mainstream has been trying to convince us that they enforced their poor language (without ‘dom’ or ‘stan’) in every corner of Europe. When they came to Europe, the indigenous people already had metals for 5K years and cities for 7K years. Sanskrit has a complex declension and gender system identical with modern Serbian (for e.g. – 1.dom, 2.(from) doma, 3.(to) domu, 4.dom, 5.(hi) dome, 6.(with) domom, 7.(about) domu; plur. – 1.domovi, 2.domova, 3.domovima, 4.domove, 5.domovi, 6.domovima, 7.domovima).

    互联网上很少有片段可以看到印度人,甚至是金发碧眼的中国人,他们可能从雅利安人那里继承了蓝眼睛。 因此,一些吉普赛人也有可能以这种方式得到蓝眼睛,尽管他们对雅利安人的干扰不大。

    https://www.shutterstock.com/search/portrait+gypsy+blue+eyes?image_type=photo

  404. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    感谢您的建议。

    I don’t know if this might be of interest to you, but one small enjoyment with languages is identifying a person’s native language, and often their ethnic origin by the grammatical errors they make when speaking (or writing) in a second language.

    Yes I know this, as I make such mistakes when speaking German or Italian. But my first learned language was Russian not English. However, Russian is too distant from German, which has much simpler grammar, to influence my grammatical errors. I am not a linguist and was forced to learn foreign languages 传人.

    The world of gypsies is much more complicated and byond our comprehension. There are two sisters Iva and Ida and one claims to be a gypsy and the other not. Please have a look at the video and try to guess what she claims to be. She sings and old robber song about a place called “Koločava”, but in her intepretation it sounds more like kolčava, meaning a weasel town. The other singers in the set are would be robbers but not gypsies.

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
    , @Skeptikal
  405. @karel

    János Kádár´s sperm donor was an Austrian soldier.

    • 回复: @karel
  406. karel 说:
    @nokangaroos

    How do you know? Or are you this particular austrian soldier?

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  407. @karel

    You wanted a csigan with blue eyes;
    it may have been a Bémak – people were not that narrow about it then 😛
    (the fact of his illegitimacy was common knowledge).

    • 回复: @karel
  408. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    you get some that look like Persian, Arab,

    Arabs are themselves very diverse looking from very dark ones to European looking ones. On average more Caucasoid than South Asians, no doubt.

  409. Malla 说:
    @Charles Martel France

    How do you explain that it was not difficult for the Muslims and the British to take control of India partially or not and to rule it ?

    Normally places with great agriculture potential in the Middle Zone, like India, China, Iraq, Egypt etc… had the earliest civilization because of good rivers and good agricultural lands. These places became very wealthy because of productive land, before industrial revolution, productive land = more wealth. But the populations in these places ate grain heavy diet and became weak and cowardly and would often be preyed upon by warlike protein eating nomadic populations. These nomadic warrior types would become the elites, rule over the great wealth generating territory with great agriculture lands and huge serf labour force (due to higher Malthusian carry capacity of the land). but with time these warrior elites would become decadent and would be in turn conquered by a new warrior elites. Many a times the warrior elites would become absorbed by the larger agricultural underclass serf population via serf farmer pussies in harems.
    For example, Egyptians have not been ruling themselves from the Persian conquests of Egypt (Greeks-Romans-Byzantine-Arabs-Mameluks-Turks-British etc…) until Nasser. Imagine that. India too has been facing pastoralist invastions from central Asia from ancient times even after the Aryans. Scythians, Khambojas, Hunas, Kushanas etc… They would with time get absorbed into the agricultural farmer populations. Earler they were Caucasoid, even Nordic (like the earlier Aryans) but later they became Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids. No problem with that. Earlier these Central Asian invaders were pagans (with similarities with primordial Vedic Hinduism) so they mixed up with the Hindu-Buddhist population. But later they were Muslims. Now it became a problem.

  410. Malla 说:
    @Charles Martel France

    As far as the British, their conquest of India was not surprising. First, already by the 15th centurym Europe was far more advanced than the rest of the World. In fortifications and cannonry, the Europeans were technologically far ahead of Indian subcontinentals as well as the fact that European armies had better discipline. Over that, the British were high IQ, physically stronger and brave population. So their conquest of Indian subcontinent or the European conquest of the World is not that surprising. High IQ, plus high physical qualities plus technological advancements.
    For example, to get an idea of how advanced the Europeans were to Indian subcontinent and most of the World in fortification technology by the 15th century, take a look at this. Highly recommended.

    军事建筑

    That is why a tiny number of British could conquer India and add to that superior governance (compared to native rulers in general), a tiny number of British could run India or even Nigeria.

    • 回复: @Anonydog
  411. @karel

    “Please have a look at the video and try to guess what she claims to be.”

    Well, I did what you said, and I have no idea how to answer your question. I need you to take mercy on me and tell me. Also, tell the story. It sounds so interesting.

    非常感谢。

    • 回复: @karel
  412. @Dumbo

    Dumbo: “Gypsies, now called ‘Roma’ to confuse them with Romanians or Romans设立的区域办事处外,我们在美国也开设了办事处,以便我们为当地客户提供更多的支持。“

    I think you’re right about everything else, but they aren’t called ‘罗马’ as a deliberate attempt to confuse them with Romanians or Romans. It is actually their traditional name for themselves, and is likely cognate with the names of two related groups with a similar lifestyle, namely the Lom people of the Caucasus region and the 多姆人 中东。

    Actually the name ‘吉普赛人’ may be the deliberately deceptive one, since I seem to recall reading that, on first arriving in Europe, they pretended to be Christian refugees (as well as sometimes pilgrims) expelled from newly-Muslim Egypt on account of their Christian faith in order to gain sympathy, and charity, from Christian European host populations.

  413. karel 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Her sister Ida claims to be a gypsy but Iva denies it and claims that Ida, who is also a singer, made it up to gain popularity in the enthno music scene.

  414. @Here Be Dragon

    Jews are high-functioning gypsies.

    Both are diaspora peoples living in the midst of, but retaining the same strict separation from the disdained ‘加乔’/‘goyim’ host population, and both traditionally had the same sort of dual morality vis a vis this ‘加乔’/‘goyim’ host population.

    Kevin Macdonald writes in ‘Diaspora Peoples’:
    Stealing from a gadje is not considered immoral, and in fact the Rom have a myth in which God allows them to steal food and other necessities because a Gypsy had swallowed a nail intended for the crucifixion of Jesus设立的区域办事处外,我们在美国也开设了办事处,以便我们为当地客户提供更多的支持。“

    The main difference, of course, is that, whereas Jews are overwhelmingly the most disproportionately wealthy group in the world, gypsies still mostly 住在肮脏的地方

    • 回复: @Franklin Ryckaert
  415. @Vel - The Contemporary Heretic

    Yes, one could say that Gypsies are low-IQ Jews, while Jews are high-IQ Gypsies.

  416. Skeptikal 说:
    @Odyssey

    Berg and Burg are not the same thing.

    Berg = mountain.

    Burg = fort or fortified place, as in ein feste BURG ist unser Gott

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
    , @Odyssey
  417. Skeptikal 说:
    @karel

    Very intriguing clip!

    Last name Bitova looks Czech to me.

    • 回复: @karel
  418. @Skeptikal

    “Burg = fort or fortified place, as in ein feste BURG ist unser Gott.”

    I thought a ‘burg’ was a one-horse town.

  419. Atle 说:

    I’ve never actually met an actual Gypsie. Really can’t be as bad as all that.

  420. Malla 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    Certainly it is odd that Hungarians and Romanians have different languages from the rest of the region, and different from each other, while I suppose they are predominantly Slavic peoples in their origin.

    The ancestors of Romanians and Moldovians were Dacians, not Slavs.

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
    , @Odyssey
  421. @Atle

    “I’ve never actually met an actual Gypsie. Really can’t be as bad as all that.”

    更差。

  422. @Malla

    “The ancestors of Romanians and Moldovians were Dacians, not Slavs.”

    Must be true. Romania’s primary domestic automobile is named ‘Dacia’. Don’t know about Moldavia.

    🙂

    • 回复: @Jett Rucker
  423. Odyssey 说:
    @Skeptikal

    It is very easy to distinguish old from new languages. Old languages have mostly consonants where every consonant has a specific meaning inherited from the pra-language. They sound rougher. Younger languages adopted words from older languages and usually added vowels or created new words arbitrarily without any specific meaning. With many vowels, they sound softer.

    So, the mainstream (e.g. wiki) says that ‘berg’ is ‘mountain’ but without any explanation. BERG is actually a metathesis of the Serbian word BREG (hill). Every consonant in this word has its specific meaning. Younger Slavic languages adopted this word, but they added vowels (e.g., in Russian: breg -> bereg; similarly: srb -> serb).

    I am sure that many will be surprised that this ancient Serbian word is a part of so many personal (sur)names and toponyms, similarly to previously mentioned words – med, stan, dom, ghost, etc, (none of these words were brought by Gypsies from Sanskrit).

    Let’s try another one – HOLM (e.g., Stockholm).

    • 回复: @Jett Rucker
    , @nokangaroos
  424. Odyssey 说:
    @Malla

    “The ancestors of Romanians and Moldovians were Dacians, not Slavs.”

    This sentence requires a clarification. The term ‘Slavic’ can be used for events after the 7th c.AC. So, Dacians could not descend from ‘Slavics’ because this term is older. Before the 7th c.AC Slavics were ‘Serbs’ (i.e. Serbian speaking tribes) or can be used the term proto-Slavics. Dacians are one of many (old) Serbian speaking tribes. In Romania today, it is virtually suppressed the knowledge about Dacian language, because some don’t want to be seen that is very similar to old Serbian. There is a very good map presented by Here Be Dragon under K.McDonald’s Northman (#179) where we can see that Serbs, Romanians and Moldavians have the same genetics, i.e. the same origin (on the map they are named: proto-Europeans). Moldavia as a state was established by Serbian dukes.

    Btw, there is an interested detail here. The mainstream states (a falsification) that Goths were Germanics. But the Romans called Goths – Dacians!!!

    So, Goths (i.e. Dacians) were proto-Slavics. The same applies for ‘Vikings’ from the previously mentioned text – Vikings were Slavics, too, not Nordics.

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  425. I remember traveling in India in the 70s….ran into a tribe of people that dressed like Gypsies…I believe they were called Lambadies. The area was Andhra Pradesh, South India on the Deccan plateau…..

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  426. @LH

    a documents? I didn’t read the rest of your post.

  427. @Larry Romanoff

    Isn’t it Moldova? Working from memory here.

  428. @Playa Slumlord

    Yes, fascinating, Here is a 4-minute video titled “Exploring the Lambadis (The Banjara Community of India) In Nazirabad Near Hyderabad”. They apparently have language and dance, but no writing.

    And another 6-minute one of their love songs.

    • 回复: @Johan
  429. @Odyssey

    Who are the Vlachs then (Vlad Tepes the Impaler was ruler of Wallachia so presumably a Vlach)? Vlachs live in territories throughout the Balkans and speak a Romanian type of language. Wouldn’t that disprove your theory that Romanian was invented as a Latin based language by Jesuits in the 19th Century as if they had an influence in Romania, as you say, how did they manage to specifically target Vlachs in other regions where they live (Serbia, Greece, Dalmatia, etc.) for adoption of the Romance language but not their majority neighbours among whom they lived for centuries? I mean so the Jesuit language influencer on his rounds visits one house but not another in a neighbourhood?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

    Their language is clearly Romanian based.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanian_language

    Tsintsars are also Vlachs, no?

    • 回复: @Odyssey
  430. @Atle

    I used to drink with a guy in my local pub and had no idea that he was a Gypsy until he actually told me. The ones who are assimilated and pale so they can pass for a European will not tell you they are a Gypsy unless they know you well so as to avoid discrimination or snide remarks. Such Gypsies are no different and no worse than other locals. Maybe you have met them without knowing it.

    Also there is a smaller number of dark skinned Gypsies in Eastern Europe who are completely assimilated and married to whites, leading perfectly normal lives just like others in their community.

  431. @Odyssey

    – I´m delighted to learn the Nordic “holm” for “island” is Serbian too;
    with Gotland right next door it stands to reason the Goths were really Serbs also
    (problem: There were 善意 Goths in the Crimea up until WWI),
    further that the Catalans (“Gotalonia”) are really Serbs (problem: The Castilian
    progeny of the Visigoths regard Catalans as a kind of jogger i.e. more likely an
    Iberian relic); it further means the Vandals were really Serbs (现在 it is beginning
    to make sense).
    You see where this Panserbism leads: The 斯瓦巴 (= really Serbs), led by a
    really Serbian little homo, liberated the really real Serbs from the Turks
    (who, come to think about it … 😛 ).

    – I agree as far as the Germanic-Slavic division, at least in the North, is a
    post-Roman artefact of Christianization; further than that, you´ll have to drag me by the DNA.

  432. karel 说:
    @Skeptikal

    yes it is but originally german, probably jewish, derived from Bittmann.

  433. Johan 说:

    So Gypsies are basically a symbol of primal human nature, they are the raw material of what humans are made of, they do not yet have a vastly refined and by now over-developed cover up and legalization system for crime and fraud as developed societies have. They do not yet have highly sophisticated methods to drain the pockets of other people.

    If the Gypsies are masters in forgery, I wonder whether they have yet successfully made any forgeries of proofs of vaccination, or whether they sell forgeries of CO2 emission rights, emulating the games of the bigger uniform and tie wearing masters of crime and forgery. This would be the ultimate humour, like forging the indulgences of the Catholics.

    The Gypsies are here to remember us.

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  434. Johan 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    This is heavily commercialized Westernized trash music based on perhaps some original rhythms and melodies. Merely an example that their art forms degenerate along with the Western.

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  435. @Johan

    My apologies. I didn’t know.

  436. Johan 说:
    @RoatanBill

    What would you prefer, to cripple people by sending them to unnecessary war legitimized by government, or to cripple people in many many other ways officially legitimized. The practices mentioned are no less disgusting than those which are the product of developed societies. The difference is that the Gypsies are not refined enough to hide behind hypocrisy, probably some of them are rawly brute instead of refined depraved and hiding behind a curtain of law and civilization.

    • 回复: @RoatanBill
  437. RoatanBill 说:
    @Johan

    I can’t speak for all parts of the world, just what I’ve seen and experienced in the US concerning war. I got drafted for Vietnam. I refused induction and alternative service since I’m no one’s slave. I got locked up in a military barracks for a short time but eventually got out when I told the costumed jerk interviewing me that I knew who my enemy was and it wouldn’t be a good idea to provide me with access to weapons. We had a robust shouting match.

    The bulk of the population that got drafted, went and helped murder people they didn’t know and that never harmed the US or anyone in it. That gov’ts think they have the right to tell people to fight, murder and possibly die is due to the morons that think gov’t is somehow above them morally. They think that gov’t represents some authority that must be obeyed. This probably stems from the idiocy of religion, especially christianity, since religion is the gateway drug leading to gov’t worship. People go to the gov’t church every so often to pray to the next POS that gets elected.

    The choice you posited is a false one. I would like the average person to tell gov’t to pound sand and refuse to serve. I would like them to wake up and realize that if their neighbor has no right to tax them, to draft them, etc, and their entire neighborhood also has no such rights, then the whole country has no such right and they should resist the mafia they elect at every opportunity.

    国家——一个举着旗帜的犯罪团伙。
    艾伦·都灵

    • 回复: @Realist
  438. 您似乎非常反军国主义,我会说您是和平主义者,尽管您赞成使用暴力进行个人自卫。 我完全同意你的看法。 我认为一个人应该能够在自卫中杀戮并且不问任何问题而走开,但我非常不喜欢士兵和士兵。 那么,您如何合理化支持俄罗斯的军事努力,甚至使用包括核在内的最大武力? 那么,在善恶的斗争中,如果是在善的一边,你是否赞成使用军队? 当然,许多人认为相反,俄罗斯人是坏人,美国和北约是好人,即使是和平主义的瑞典也是如此。

  439. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    CM,我认为您缺少一个耶稣会拼图来获得完整的图片。 我可能会说几句话。 我已经提到,罗马人在 16 年内占据了今天罗马尼亚 160% 的领土。 少数当地牧羊人接受某种形式的粗俗拉丁语。 “罗马尼亚人”是 1856 年的人造词。真正的词是“Vlach”。 通过联合瓦拉几亚、摩尔多瓦和特兰西瓦尼亚,耶稣会创建了罗马尼亚,并为他们发明了一种新的(准拉丁语)语言。 有一段摘录:

    (Serbian) Historians have not even dealt with deciphering the name “Vlachs”, so today groups of inhabitants in Serbia under that name are considered a national minority in relation to the Serbian nation! Few words were related to the Serbian ethnic group as the word “Vlachs”. Historians fled from that determinant for Serbs, so they turned “Vlachs” into “vlachs” – emphasizing that this is the name for cattle breeders in medieval Serbia. There are some explanations here, because the Serbian (Slavic) god Voloh (Vlah) was the protector of shepherds. But historians do not explain such a simple fact – every Serbian cattle breeder is under the protection of the god Vlach (Voloha, Volos, etc.), and cattle breeding was the most widespread economic branch in the pre-industrial era.

    European peoples called Serbs Vlachs – as often as Illyrians, Rasenians, or, as Hungarians most often did – Racians. In 1630, Austria regulated the life and organization of Serbs in the Military Krajina with the Vlach Constitution (Serbian Constitution) – in Latin: Statuta Valahorum.

    Johann Baron Bartenstein, an adviser to Maria Theresa (18th c.), testified that the Austrians considered the Vlachs to be Serbs, especially if they still used the Serbian language. [12] The Austrian count Bartenstein also writes about the Serbs in today’s Transylvania, Romania. According to the Empress’s advisor, only Serbs lived here in the middle of the 18th century – without Hungarians and Romanians. They spoke Serbian. He calls those Serbs Vlachs and says that most of them are Orthodox, and some of them have recognized the Pope as their leader (uniates) – as Bartenstein writes, they are “united” (with the Roman Catholic Church).

    In short, Bartenstein cites data of the population of Transylvania from tax books and says that there are 135,000 tax households, of which 85,000 are Orthodox Serbs. Today the descendants of these inhabitants in Transylvania are Hungarians – they speak Hungarian and they are all Catholics. There are two million of them and they have a political demand for autonomy in Romania. It is interesting that these Serbs were not assimilated into Romanians, but into Hungarians. The decision was made by the Vatican and Austria in the 18th century, probably to increase the population with the Roman Catholic faith, because if they had turned them Romanian – they would have, although not Serbs, an inconvenient Orthodox population. And it would hinder – Roman Catholic expansion towards Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Georgia and Russia.

    CM,为你和你在街角酒吧喝酒的吉普赛伙伴,一首牧羊人的歌:

    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  440. Odyssey 说:

    HOLM – Hem or Helm is the old name for the Balkan Peninsula. Among the ancient Serbs, the word “hum” meant a hill (mountain), while “humka” meant a hill.

    Old Slavonic * hlъm, Old Russian hlъm and hlъmъ, Russian holm, Ukrainian holm, Old Bohemian chlm and chlum, Czech chlum, Slovak chlm, Polish chełm, Lusatian-Serbian chołm, Serbo-Croatian hum, Slovenian holm, Bulgarian хълм, originated from praSlavic xъlmъ.

    The name “Zahumlje”, for the area in today’s western Herzegovina and southern Dalmatia, originated from the original word “Hum”, or in the old Serbian language – Hlъm (for + Hum: “behind Hum”), which transcribed into Latin – Zachlumia [6], ie in the Latinized form of the basic word “Hum”: Chelmania, Chelm, Chulmorum, Chulmia and “terra de Chelmo” (Hum land).
    Indirectly, we are reminded of the same by the allegations made by its authors Jesse Russell and Ronald Cohn in their book “Michael of Zahumlje”, when they wrote about the Serbian ruler Mihajlo Višević (880 / 890-950), Prince Zahumlje (ruled: 910 -950) and the old Serbian area – Zahumlje.

    Today’s (generally accepted) name “Balkans” (for the Hum peninsula) was created in 1808 by the German geographer Johann Cojne (1778-1853) in his work “Gea”. Versuch einer wissenschaftlichen Erdbeschreibung ”(Berlin, Königreich Preußen: 1701-1918), using the Turkish name “Balkanhalbinsel”.

    After this event, the word “Balkans” began to be used as the name of the region, ie. for the Hem Peninsula. In this way, Cojne rejected the thousand-year-old tradition of the natives, as he propagated his newly composed expression to scientific circles, although never (until then) did the inhabitants of this part of Europe (or any part of Europe) denote this region.

    • 回复: @nokangaroos
  441. Anonydog 说:
    @Malla

    You have quite an imaginative mind and your speculations are indeed quite interesting.

    I agree, the Euros from 1500s onward were undisputedly far ahead of the rest of the World in almost every area and the copium for that fact is the main driving force of politics today (globally)

    However, I got to say you betray a sly pro-Islamic bias, and I am highly suspicious our your incessant kissing up to Euros-whites. What is your story? A stealth Muzzie?

    Anyway, In this case, you conveniently overlook the fact, Hindu India (the real India) was at it’s lowest point in about 800-1000 years when the British arrived. And the Muslim colonial Empire in India was teetering at the edge of collapse. So India was quite ripe for the taking when the Europeans arrived.

    And China was pretty much in the same situation, while never taken over explicitly was completely dominated by the Europeans and more shamefully by even the lesser (at that time) Japanese.

    • 回复: @Larry Romanoff
  442. @Odyssey

    谢谢。 你写的大部分内容似乎都是合理的,但是..

    在罗马帝国时期,拉丁语本来是该地区的通用语,但如果弗拉赫牧羊人属于更古老的前罗马人,他们不太可能采用拉丁语,而是坚持使用自己的古老语言。 我能理解城市里的人采用拉丁语,但山上的牧羊人? 通常这类人保留自己的语言,因为他们不受来来往往的统治力量的强烈影响。

    我同意有一个隐藏的历史,历史真相被压制了,但是历史修正主义者可以在另一个方向上走得太远,提出可能不真实的主张。 当然,许多现代语言在 19 世纪被标准化,特别是在那个时期出现了许多民族国家,从统一的德国人和意大利人到从奥斯曼人手中解放出来的巴尔干国家,但我不相信罗马尼亚语是一种完全当时发明的。

    例如,我听说马其顿语完全是铁托在二战后南斯拉夫马其顿共和国行政区的共产党人编造的,这显然是错误的。 这是最近的历史,众所周知,但一些历史修正主义者正试图伪造它。 如果你检查你会发现马其顿语在二战前被广泛使用,南斯拉夫王国该地区的官方法院和法律文件不是用塞尔维亚语写的,而是用马其顿语写的。 现在,如果您声称马其顿语是塞尔维亚语的某个版本,甚至不应该被称为“马其顿”语言,尽管它听起来也与保加利亚语相似,但它可能是不同的并且可能是真的。 您认为马其顿语和/或保加利亚语与古老的中世纪教堂塞尔维亚语的关系更密切吗?

    那么斯洛文尼亚语呢? 这与塞尔维亚克罗地亚语有何不同?

    • 回复: @Wielgus
    , @Odyssey
  443. A brief introduction to gypsies aka “Roma & Sinti” BS in a rather “practical” sense of the s word:
    https://sputniknews.com/20220510/faeces-flinging-roma-war-in-central-stockholm-goes-viral--video-1095388221.html

  444. @Odyssey

    Neither the Maya nor the Lakota nor Leif Eiriksson nor (((Columbus)))
    (who famously brought slavery to America and syphilis to Europe) ever
    called it “America” either … those pesky German geographers – those
    Flurnamen imperialists!!!
    – If I understand you correctly you postulate a Bronze Age* 通用语
    along the ancient trade routes** that only survived in a refractory backwater;
    while that strikes the humble one as far-out Illyrist it is not unreasonable –
    the Bajuvars took largely empty lands in the 8.-11. centuries AD.

    *The “Serbs”s.ll. you describe are clearly younger than the
    “Early Anatolian Farmers” (Chalcolithic, +/- Megalithic; 奥茨)
    (inhowfar the Albanians are a relic is open for debate) but maybe older
    than the Dorian Invasion and ?the Sea Peoples, hence the constraint.
    The claim to Vinca is a bit reminiscent of the 乌里玛 pilpul on why Adam was
    a Muslim (“It is written that Adam was called before the throne of the Most High;
    it is also written that the name of the rasûl – alayhis salam – is inscribed on
    the throne, so it was only natural for Adam to ask who that “Mohammed” was”.
    I should probably note there are shameless 卡菲尔 “scholars” who dispute that)
    But, all is not lost! No one yet managed to prove Linear B is not Serbian.

    **In much the same way Turkic, Persian and Arabic commingle along the Silk Road.

  445. Wielgus 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    斯拉夫语言之间存在“语言战争”,由于它们往往相当相似,有时相互遮蔽,这一事实更加严重。 在二战中作为轴心国的一部分被派往东线的斯洛伐克士兵倾向于发现他们可以与乌克兰农民交流,尽管斯洛伐克语通常被置于西斯拉夫语中,而乌克兰语则被置于东斯拉夫语中。
    保加利亚人历来将马其顿语视为保加利亚西部的一种形式。

    • 同意: nokangaroos
    • 回复: @Commentator Mike
  446. Liza 说:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    题外话:

    回复:DSM-5。 Germophobia (mysophobia) 写在诊断手册中。 如果你没有注意到,世界各地的社会都挤满了患有这种疾病的“人”(机器人可能是一个更好的词)——如此普遍,以至于他们乐于伸出双臂接受血液中的毒药; 遮住大部分脸; 避免与所有人接触,甚至是亲密的家人; 并且通常对那些没有受到自己精神疾病折磨的人怀有愤怒的感觉。 数十亿人认为这些“细菌”如果被吸入,至少与放射性钚尘一样危险。 这是真的。

  447. @Anonydog

    “Hindu India (the real India) was at it’s lowest point in about 800-1000 years when the British arrived. So India was quite ripe for the taking when the Europeans arrived.” “And China was pretty much in the same situation.”

    I see that Hasbara’s Jewish 50-cent Army is still alive. I was surprised you would want to tell such outrageous lies. It wasn’t the “Europeans” who arrived to depopulate India and loot it until there was no remaining flesh on the bones. It was the Jews who arrived, specifically Rothschild and his British East India Company, and David Sassoon and his ilk. Between the two, they looted and destroyed both India and China. The truths of all this can no longer be buried.

    • 回复: @Anonydog
  448. @Wielgus

    就像拉丁语言在一定程度上可以相互理解和相似一样,斯拉夫语言也是如此。 拉丁人可以很容易地学习彼此的语言,斯拉夫人也可以轻松学习他们自己的不同语言,我猜他们为谁的语言优先并且是原始的原始语言而争吵。 对于拉丁语,它显然是拉丁语,但对于斯拉夫语,它就不那么明显了。 奥德赛似乎认为它是塞尔维亚语。

    • 回复: @Wielgus
  449. @Johan

    You raise an interesting point … how did that lifestyle evolve?
    It cannot be “primitive”, as it presupposes a host.
    – In parts of Central Africa and the Sudan the metalsmiths are a separate
    (but non-itinerant) caste; they are pariahs but must not be killed, and have
    magical knowledge. There are echoes of this in Germanic (Wölundr, Laurin),
    Baltic (Perkunas) and Greek (Hephaistos, Daidalos) lore; so maybe they just
    oozed into a preexisting archetype/niche, a niche that no longer exists?
    The “classic” csigan skillset – horses, tinkering, music, whoring and liberating –
    is one of camp followers to a conquering army, and everybody and his mama
    (with certain exceptions 😛 ) has used them as such.
    But the Thirty Years´War found them already in full, erm, “bloom”.
    That leaves only the Mongols as their primary employers.

  450. Wielgus 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    教会斯拉夫语是第一个具有文化影响力的斯拉夫语言,因为它是一种礼仪语言,被描述为基本上是古保加利亚语。
    如果有的话,斯拉夫语言比罗曼语更接近。 天主教斯拉夫人和东正教之间的文化鸿沟并没有用罗曼语复制,而是解释了为什么天主教使用拉丁字母和东正教西里尔字母,这是希腊字母的衍生物。

  451. Anonydog 说:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Dude, what is your problem? A Jew who accuses a non-Jew stranger for being a Jew hasbara? Are you high, or something? I am starting to hate Jews more than you, Jew. LOL. So perhaps we may find common ground after all. LOL
    BTW. I am not Hindu either. even though what I am is beside the point.

  452. Realist 说:
    @RoatanBill

    That gov’ts think they have the right to tell people to fight, murder and possibly die is due to the morons that think gov’t is somehow above them morally.

    And morons that think gov’t is somehow above them mentally…although in some cases it is.

    But generally, it is the stupid leading the stupid.

    • 同意: RoatanBill
  453. @ginger bread man

    Some more articles on 乌兹网 about Gypsies:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/gypsy-facts/
    https://www.unz.com/ldinh/gypsies/

    Another documentary about gypsies in the USA:
    It’s called Searching for the 4th Nail (2009):
    https://www.romarchive.eu/en/collection/searching-for-the-4th-nail/
    Apparently, there are over 1 million gypsies in America.

    Here’s the description of the documentary:

    The protagonist of the 2009 documentary Searching for the 4th Nail (2009), George Eli, is also its director, as he joins his sons Alexander and Christopher in searching for their Romani identity and their roots in American history. Searching for the 4th Nail reveals the diversity of Romani communities and successfully shows modern-day Romani life in America. George’s trip starts with a visit to his parents’ grave, where he offers them some coffee and pastries, in accordance with traditional Romani customs. At the beginning of their quest, George and his sons are puzzled because they all have some issues surrounding what it means to be Roma or ‘Gypsy’. George, for his part, has no more than the mythical story about the fourth nail of Jesus, which was stolen by the ‘Gypsies’. As schoolboys, Alexander and Christopher want to be like their peers, and have little more than a stereotyped understanding of ‘Gypsies’ which they cannot identify with.

    Throughout the progression of their quest, the viewer is allowed to follow their journey closely and concentrate on their emotions. The authentic voice is ensured by the intimate closeness, and it helps the viewer to understand the Romani culture from inside, through the lens of the Roma protagonist. The aforementioned authenticity is strengthened by the subjective yet simple author-driven narration. They are continually led back to popular culture, Hollywood movies, story books and mainstream media through their encounters with elements of stereotyping. In order to get some insight into the history of Romani people with the help of science and other cultural fields, they visit institutions (e.g. Ellis Island Immigration Museum and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum), conferences, festivals and symposiums. They also talk with survivors, activists and museum curators, scholars in Romani studies, film experts, religious pastors and even with a traditional Roma fortune teller. George uses both human memory and the World Wide Web as he maps his family history with the help of his grandfather and home video footage. He even asks people on the streets about the overall picture of Romani people and the reasons why they are stereotyped.

    Although at some points he feels despair about the topic, for instance at the Romano Drom Symposium and Festival in 2004 organised by the University of Toronto, where no Romani people were present in the audience, he eventually gains some support. This includes Hillary Clinton’s speech about Roma human rights and a letter written to George by Johnny Depp.

    It is clear that making this highly informative and fresh film was an educational process not only for George, but also for his sons, as well as for the audience. Driving home at the end of the film, he concludes with his sons that someone has to learn about their roots to be a greater person. It certainly has a positive impact on the self-esteem of Roma, and helps the majority to break with stereotypes and learn about the history of Romani people. In this way, they can become conscious of both the real and fictitious aspects of social discourse about Romani communities. Discerning between the two types of discourse, they can dispose with both stereotypes and self-refusal, which is one way to become an efficient platform for affirmative identity politics. That is why the keywords of the film are education, learning, lesson and teaching, both family and institutional. As he reaches the concluding lesson of the trip on the drive home, we see pictures of his father from a home video, emphasising the importance of learning and passing on family identity to the next generations. That is how the boys learn to express their respect for their ancestors in the cemetery, where the project once started – with the ‘Romani tradition of remembrance’, as George explains.

    The film concludes that we should get rid of myths and stereotypes, and become educated, just as Alexander and Christopher do. Searching for the 4th Nail won the Best Filmmaker Award at the Connecticut Film Festival (2009), partly due to its great historical relevance; it is one of the first documentary films in the USA in which Roma speak in their own voice.

  454. Odyssey 说:

    @ CM @ Wielgus

    You are missing some basics, but it is understandable, although, I don’t know your backgrounds, because I don’t know Larry’s methodology to recognize someone’s backgrounds based on their grammatical errors (I wonder if he can recognize my background based on many grammar and spelling errors in my previous comments).

    Anyway, there is no ‘language war’ amid Slavic languages, we all can, better or worse, understand each other. Anyone who knows a little bit old history knows that first European civilisation was born in Lepenski Vir/Vincha, where achieved very high levels (e.g. 1st industrial revolution 10K ago). I said that Vinca people called themselves ‘cousins, the members of the same race’ (i.e ‘srb’). Because we call this language ‘srbski’ (Serbian). From this ancient ‘srb’ language, all other Slavic languages (including modern Serbian which preserved the original name) developed. First (after Serbian) was Russian in the 8th c.AC, others much later, some very recently. Linguists very easily can see which language is older (I provided one example with Serbian ‘breg’ and Russian ‘bereg’).

    Bulgarians were an Asiatic tribe which came in 590AC to Besarabia (today’s Romania). They got permission to settle in Walachia. In 677 led by karan Asparuh crossed the Danube and came to today’s Bulgaria. Indigenous Serbs lived there. There were tensions until the 9th century when Bulgars also converted to Christianity. Han Boris became Michael. Original Bulgarian Asiatic language was not spoken at that time. Serbian language was spoken without many differences until the 18th c when was artificially changed to leave impression of separate language. Bulgarians are ethnically about 80-90% Serbs.

    Macedonians are invented nation. Communists and Kominterna were a globalist movement, and their policy was to destroy Serbian national corpus by creating artificial nations with artificial languages (Macedonians, Montenegrin, Bosniacs and earlier Croats or Romanians by Vatican). Communists took one Serbian dialect in old Serbia (today’s Macedonia) which was the most different from the standard Serbian and in two weeks created new language, new nation and appropriated Serbian churches in Macedonia, some 1000 years old, and they announced the new Macedonian Orthodox Church. Since Alexander until 1945, Macedonian name and language did not exist so, neither any their history. In Macedonia (Skopje) was the centre and the capital of Serbian medieval kingdom.

  455. Odyssey 说:
    @Commentator Mike

    Vlachs are Serbs. In the Roman Empire, they worked in military garrisons, in trade centres, in the palaces of nobles, in the ports on the Danube and in Moravia, and they had to speak Latin. They never taught him well and spoke to the Romans semi-Serbian-semi-Latin. And so, the Vlach, Tzintzars, Aromanian (on the Adriatic) languages were born. The Romanian language was created by Vatican, Turkey and Austria from the 17th to the 19th century, so that the Serbs in Romania and Moldova could be declared as Romanian, i.e. non-Serbian nation. The language of the population was Serbian with many Latin loanwords. That is how the Germans and the Vatican began to build Romanian – they added more loanwords and increasingly threw out Serbian words. At the end of the 19th century, 43% of Serbian words were removed from that language, and words of Romance languages were introduced instead. But even today, about 30% of Serbian words are in Romanian.

  456. @Here Be Dragon

    Don’t know about oriental but certainly dark skinned. Also, this idea that biological origin can be determined by language is very suspect. Finnish sounds Asian but Finns don’t look very Asian. Ditto for Hungarians. Language can be influenced by a small number of elite invaders that mix with the local elites but don’t have a big effect on overall genetic make-up. The Normans in England would be a good example (English has many French words, but most English people aren’t genetically French).

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  457. Odyssey 说:

    @厘米

    All Orthodox nations were baptized on their own languages – Armenians, Georgians, Russians, Bulgarians, Serbs. Romanians, too – on their Serbian language. The service in Romanian churches and administration were on Serbian language. All Romanian Orthodox churches were under jurisdiction (and ownership) of the Serbian Orthodox Churches until 1864 (some churches until 1919). Vatican’s and Austria’s politics (16-19 c. AC) was to create an artificial identity and language and separate Romanians and Moldovans from their Serbian roots giving them a fake Roman identity.

    Jesuits, via Ladislav Barnjai started negotiating with Serbian Erdely Mitropolit (bishop) Teofil Seremi in Erdely Belgrade (Alba Julia) to make a Union of Serbian churches in today’s Romania and Roman Catholics. After lot of pressure and politics the union with Jesuits was signed in 1700. All documents were signed in Serbian language (which now call ‘old Romanian language’). Iliju Barbulesku named this period as the ‘Slavic period of Romania’. Jesuits established the School of Ardeleana which started the conversion of local Serbs and Slavic people from three independent Danube principalities with their princes to be a part of the artificial Romanian nation. In the first version of Romanian language were 50% of Serbian words. Subsequent language ‘purification’ campaigns reduced this percentage to 25%. Educated people at the time in Romania were mostly of foreign origin and directed by Habsburgs. Campaigns were conducted primarily in education, schools, press and literature.

    Vatican’s ‘East Latins Project’ – was executed in Paris in the 19th century. They brought youngsters from Vlachia to teach them a new language and alphabet and to later work as missionaries back at home. The ruler at the time was a Greek (Ispilate) who approved this. It was very similar to Ottomans who were taking by force 5 years old boys from Serbia to make them janissaries, the elite Ottoman soldiers. Greeks Phanariotes then replaced church service in Vlachia from Serbian language to Latin.

    In 1791, Jesuits’ School of Ardeleana initiated Supplex Libellus Valachorum Transsilvaniae – the first political request for uniting of three principalities based on romanization idea. In Moldavia (which was established by Serbian duke Dragosh and followed by duke Bogdan, who liberated people from Hungarians and because all Moldavian people were called Karabogdan-es) Serbs were majority in the 17th century. They had well developed church education and many Serbs from Baltic and Lvov were coming there for education in Serbian language and church singing. As so-called Macedonian Orthodox church, established by communists, Romanian state bought tomos of autocephality for Romanian Orthodox Church in 1925 which immediately converted to Latin alphabet, new Romanian language and Gregorian calendar.

  458. Sparkon 说:
    @Alt Right Moderate

    Also, this idea that biological origin can be determined by language is very suspect.

    Agreed. All the more so as we have no written records going back more than about 5,000 years.

    I think it stands to reason that language itself was fairly well developed before its written forms appeared, although it is certainly possible that some earlier people may have had a written language that was not set down in durable form.

    All we know for sure is that language seems to have been well developed by the time men did begin to write in durable form.

    Most of the discussion here has been about fairly recent developments in language and/or nationality, while our species 智人 is said by some authorities to have arisen about 300,000 years ago. Early Modern Humans, our immediate predecessors, are sometimes called Cro-Magnon men, although that term has fallen out of favor. In any case, EMH were a little beefier than we are, with particularly strong femurs, better teeth, and a bigger brain case…

    Relative brain size of 智人 did not change from 1.8 to 0.6 mya. After about 600 kya it increased until about 35,000 years ago, when it began to decrease. Worldwide, average body size also decreased in 智人 from 35,000 years ago until very recently, when economically advanced peoples began to grow larger while less-privileged [sic] peoples did not.

    https://www.britannica.com/science/human-evolution/Increasing-brain-size

  459. xxxeliss 说:

    Irish/British travellers like the Yenouche and other minor Ethnic europeans itinerant people are not related to Gypsies. The academic consensus is that Gypsies/Roma/Sinti came from the Indian subcontinent , most of them don’t assimilate, nor send they children to school or in some cases don’t even speak the majority language, the minority that assimilates often marry Europeans

  460. anon[188]• 免责声明 说:
    @Anon

    …One more item – it would be illuminating to research how the Bzyantines treated the gypsies….

    That is brilliant. Byzantium basically ruled over tribes (rather than geography) , so it would be very illuminating to find out how the Byzantium rulers governed gypsies.

  461. bronekc 说:

    Several decades ago I wrote an article about that ethnic group. I can’t recall the norm de plume utilized. What I do recall is the Polish government provided homes for them. The men resided on the top floors the woman on the lower levels. The females often engaged in prostitution.

    They were known for their pilfering of others. Often women would come to the front doors of homes and pleasantly engage residents. Some were attractive and held babies. Their men would enter in the back and steal households and homesteads.

    When in Rome I was a friend to two writers. One day they took me to a tourist center and I was instructed to just eat, sit and watch. Gypsies would use special razor type tools to cut back pockets and other areas of tourists pilfering goods and money. The tourists would later think the thieves were Romans. A favorite trick was to take the camera of tourist and have them back away for the photograph(s). Instead of taking a picture, they would runoff with the aparat.

    Overall, they would rely on the sympathy of native populations in order to continue their parasitical existence and engage in thievery. In all areas that I’ve visited they were disliked by the native populations.

    By the way half a century ago -I have no idea of the current situation- there was an enormous gypsy population in Budapest. As in all areas of wandering or residence they were deemed as problematic. A most essential place of work would be centers where tourists mingled.

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