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令人惊讶的是,媒体对 25 月 XNUMX 日事件的后续报道很少th 杜勒斯机场逮捕了众议院受雇的巴基斯坦裔美国 IT 专家伊姆兰·阿万 (Imran Awan),据称他在逃往巴基斯坦时因银行欺诈而被拘留。 主流媒体在某种程度上可以预见地产生 最少的新闻报道 故事死之前。 新闻消失的速度促使了一些观察家, 包括Breitbart, 对可能暴露机密信息甚至间谍活动的可疑掩盖发出警报,这可能是我们现在称之为俄罗斯之门的故事的一部分。

可以肯定的是,这个故事很奇怪,有很多令人讨厌的联系。 三十七岁的阿万、他的妻子、嫂子和两个兄弟阿比德和贾马尔担任 IT 管理员,全职和兼职, 30 和 80 名国会议员,所有民主党人,包括前民主党全国委员会 (DNC) 主席黛比·沃瑟曼-舒尔茨 (Debbie Wasserman-Schultz)。 他们没有安全许可,甚至不确定他们在被雇用之前是否经过任何检查。 他们声称的 IT 管理技能也没有得到证实,因为据报道,他们的工作模式包括缺勤时间,而不是在众议院办公室度过的时间。 一位国会 IT 工作人员将他们描述为“幽灵员工”。

有一次,伊姆兰(Imran)进入了众议院 作为同事 一位拉奥·阿巴斯(Rao Abbas),他欠他的钱,最出名的是 最近被麦当劳开除。 阿巴斯住在伊姆兰妻子所拥有的一所房子的地下室,作为出租物业。 他可能根本没有执行 IT 的资格,但有关国会议员似乎并没有注意到。 阿巴斯最后在国会议员帕特里克墨菲的办公室工作,他进入大楼的罕见情况,当时他是众议院情报委员会的成员 以及 佛罗里达州众议员西奥·达奇。 他得到了 250,000 美元的报酬。

为了支付所有非工作但在工资单上的员工, 伊姆兰还聘请了 一位高中朋友 Haseeb Rana,他确实对计算机有所了解。 据报道,拉娜做了“所有的工作”,并因此一直想辞职。 像 Rana 经常做的那样,IT 管理员替其他人填写也违反了众议院的规定,因为每个这样的员工都是由国会议员亲自注册的。

Awans 和他们的两个朋友都被聘为众议院的受薪雇员,其高级公务员级别的工资等级约为。 \ 每年 165,000 美元,这通常是支付给经验丰富的高级管理人员或参谋长的费用。 伊姆兰的弟弟贾马尔在 2014 年被录用时只有 XNUMX 岁。

向国会工作人员授予安全检查的过程并不完全透明,但是与其他政府机构的程序没有什么不同。 寻求批准工作人员的办公室必须提出要求,然后进行某种调查,然后申请人必须在授予授权之前签署保密协议。 有时,国会要求其工作人员拥有超出正常“需要知道”的访问权限,从而推动了这一进程。 例如,2016年XNUMX月,众议院情报委员会的八名民主党人 要求 允许他们的员工访问机密敏感的最高机密信息。

不知道同时为几名情报委员会成员工作的阿万斯是否会参与或访问能够提取这些工作人员使用的机密材料的计算机,但 Buzzfeed 在其关于调查的初步报告中阿万斯家族的成员, 重复的担忧 一位国会议员认为嫌疑人可能“可以访问众议院的整个计算机网络”。 事实上,很难想象情况并非如此。 在办公环境中,IT 管理员在检查系统时通常会要求输入密码。 维基解密的电子邮件证实,伊姆兰肯定拥有与国会议员黛比·沃瑟曼-舒尔茨以及她的其他工作人员有关的密码。

国会支付了 Awans 超过 4 万美元 在 2004 年至 2016 年期间,他们的工资水平为 165,000 美元,一些消息来源认为这一数字为 高三到四倍 而不是政府承包商IT专家在所谓的能力水平上执行类似工作的规范。 其中四个阿旺族人 500名最高薪 在 15,000 名国会工作人员中。 涉及的国会议员尚未解释相当大且始终如一的多付水平。 尽管产生了所有收入,但伊姆兰·阿万 (Imran Awan) 于 2010 年宣布破产,声称他在弗吉尼亚州福尔斯彻奇 (Falls Church) 拥有的一家汽车企业损失了 1 万美元,该企业负债累累,借款未能偿还。 该企业被命名为 汽车国际 A, 在其名片上缩写为 CIA。

阿万斯家族也因违反法律和内部不和而闻名,尽管国会雇主是否意识到他们在办公室外的行为值得怀疑。 兄弟俩收到了包括酒驾在内的许多交通罚单,并不断谋划着创收,其中包括 热闹的电话交谈 到他们的信用合作社,伊姆兰假装是他自己的妻子,以便将钱汇到巴基斯坦。 他们与父亲和继母关系不和,包括伪造文件骗取继母的保险金,甚至将她“俘虏”,让她看不到他们垂死的父亲。 他们的父亲甚至改变了他的姓氏,以与他们分离。

截至2016年XNUMX月,阿万族人 受到怀疑 成立了一项涉及双重计费以及盗窃和转售政府拥有的计算机设备的业务。 人们还认为,他们以某种方式进入了众议院的大部分计算机网络,以及理论上不允许他们访问的各个办公室独立计算机系统中的其他信息。 国会山警方开始调查,并悄悄提醒相关国会议员可能存在问题。 大多数人停止雇用阿万的家人和同事,但沃瑟曼-舒尔茨让伊姆兰继续担任工资单,直到他实际被捕的第二天。

为 Awans 辩护的一些人,包括 Wasserman-Schultz 和家庭律师,坚持认为他和他的家人是受害者 “反穆斯林的右翼涂片工作,” 尽管没有实际证据表明情况确实如此。 他们还声称,导致逮捕的银行欺诈行为,其中伊姆兰根据他在弗吉尼亚州洛顿拥有并声称居住的房屋,从国会联邦信用合作社获得了 165,000 美元的房屋净值贷款,这在很大程度上是一种误解他的律师将其描述为“极其轻微”的事情 克里斯·高文(Chris Gowen),一位身价高昂的华盛顿律师,曾为克林顿夫妇、克林顿基金会和克林顿全球倡议工作过。

原来,伊姆兰和他的妻子不再住在已经变成出租物业的房子里,这是一个明显的银行欺诈案。 Awans 有 屋子里的房客 一位前海军陆战队员和他的海军军官妻子非常怀疑似乎是政府采购的大量计算机设备和用品,而所有这些材料都是船东留下的。 他们联系了联邦调查局,联邦调查局发现了似乎故意被破坏的硬盘。

联邦调查局当然对盗窃政府计算机感兴趣,但它也正在调查阿旺人利用其能力访问并可能利用众议院计算机网络以及Wasserman-Schultz的iPad存储的敏感信息的可能性。 ,伊姆兰(Imran)可以访问并连接到民主党全国委员会服务器。 据信,伊姆兰寄出了失窃的政府档案 到远程个人服务器。 它可能位于他在弗吉尼亚州洛顿市的故居中,在那里发现了被砸坏的设备,或者一直到巴基斯坦。 由于伊姆兰·阿旺(Emran Awan)是双重国籍的人,出生于巴基斯坦,因此也必须考虑间谍活动的可能性。 据说,阿旺一家人经常回巴基斯坦,当地官员把伊姆兰(Imran)当作王室对待,这表明他可能一直在为伊斯兰堡(Islamabad)不太友善的政府提供帮助。

考虑到伊姆兰及其家人可能参与的犯罪活动仍在调查中,国会警察和联邦调查局决定阻止他逃往巴基斯坦的企图。 阿万实际上在机场被捕的指控是银行欺诈,这是一种很容易抓住他的方法,因为它有据可查。 它允许其他更严重的调查继续进行,因此伊姆兰·阿万只是因为一件小事而被关押的论点不一定正确。

作为 283,000 月份进行的 XNUMX 美元转账的一部分,阿万斯已将信用合作社的钱和他自己的一些现金电汇到巴基斯坦。 两个月后,他的妻子 Hina Alvi 也离开了美国。 她被搜查 海关人员查明她身上有 12,400 美元现金。 她还带着他们的三个孩子,以及许多装有家居用品和衣服的盒子。 很明显她不打算回来,但一直没有解释 为什么她甚至被允许离开 因为携带超过 \$10,000 出境而不报告是重罪。

饰演Imran Awan 据报道有访问权限 在 Wasserman-Schultz 的 iPad 上,他大概也能够看到希拉里克林顿的犯罪电子邮件。 据调查人员称,他还在她的办公室使用了一台笔记本电脑,该笔记本电脑隐藏在 Rayburn House 办公大楼的一个“未使用的缝隙”中。 目前,警方正在对其进行检查,但沃瑟曼-舒尔茨 (Wasserman-Schultz) 努力在其被查看之前将其恢复。 她向对方施压 首都警察局局长 马修·韦德罗萨(Matthew Verderosa)退还该物品,并威胁他说:“您应该期望会有后果。” 最初,Wasserman-Schultz拒绝与警方合作,拒绝提供密码,也不允许密码打开她的计算机,但Fox News报道说,她最近显然已允许当局进行扫描。

伊姆兰·阿万还有另一个奇怪的联系,可以追溯到伊拉克战争期间保罗·沃尔福威茨周围的新保守派圈子。 在 2002 年末和 2003 年初,沃尔福威茨定期 秘密见面 与一群居住在华盛顿地区并反对萨达姆侯赛因政权的伊拉克侨民在一起。 伊拉克人已经多年不在他们的出生国,但他们声称与消息灵通的家庭成员和政治盟友定期接触。 伊拉克顾问为沃尔福威茨提供了一个现在熟悉的副词,即伊拉克人民将起来支持入侵的美国人并推翻可恨的萨达姆。 他们会用鲜花和欢呼声来迎接解放者。

伊拉克人由一名阿里·阿特·阿塔尔(Ali A. al-Attar)博士领导,他于1963年(1989年)出生在巴格达,父母是伊朗人 毕业 贝鲁特美国大学医学院教授。 随后,他移居美国,并在华盛顿特区郊区的格林贝尔特马里兰州格林贝尔特市建立内科诊所,最终将他的业务扩展到包括他在弗吉尼亚州和马里兰州全资或部分拥有的九种诊所,但最终他失去了自己的业务。由于“可疑的计费方式”获得许可,以及由于与患者发生性关系而导致的“不专业行为”

阿塔尔是 调查 由联邦调查局并最终 被起诉 2008-9 年的大规模医疗保健欺诈,其中包括向保险公司收取超过 2.3 万美元的费用,用于他们的患者实际上并未获得的服务,其中许多虚假声明使用了在埃及大使馆参加团体计划的外交官和雇员的姓名在华盛顿。 在一个案例中,医生声称一名大使馆雇员在 26 年 2007 月至 2008 年 55,000 月期间每 400 天访问他们的三个诊所,每次都进行相同的测试。 保险公司仅为一名患者就 XNUMX 多个不存在的手术向医生支付了 XNUMX 美元。

Ali A. Al-Attar 博士在起诉后逃离美国,以避免被捕和监禁,现在被视为逃犯。 2012 年底,有人看到他在黎巴嫩贝鲁特与一名真主党官员交谈。 Al-Attar 对这起案件很感兴趣,因为他似乎是 Imran Awan 的朋友,并且 还借给了他 \$100,000,从未偿还。 联邦调查局目前正在调查任何可能的国际间谍活动,特别涉及这两个人,因为阿万和他的同伙在众议院工作期间显然可以访问机密信息,这些信息可能会引起任何数量的外国政府的兴趣。

伊姆兰·阿万案当然引起了人们极大的兴趣,不仅因为调查最终结果,还因为它揭示了国会和政府更一般地说来实际运作的情况。 我不知道哪些关于可能发生的事情的指控是真实的,但肯定有很多需要考虑的地方。 案件是否会在没有恐惧或偏袒的情况下得到调查和起诉将取决于司法部和联邦调查局,但我感到震惊的是,很可能会 监督调查 阿旺夫妇中的一位是史蒂芬·瓦瑟曼(Steven Wasserman),他是黛比·瓦瑟曼·舒尔茨(Debbie Wasserman-Schultz)的兄弟,哥伦比亚特区助理检察官。 如果确实应该发生这种情况,那将是巨大的利益冲突,而且我们不得不怀疑Wasserman是否有足够的诚信来回避自己。

关于阿旺案,有很多问题。 一个人可能会合理地问到,在被高薪并被允许在国会办公室的计算机上工作之前,如何挑选和审查外国出生的IT专家。 而且,即使在相关国会议员被警告他们的员工正在接受调查之后,这些人仍可以继续工作,这必须超出瓦瑟曼·舒尔茨的解释。 发表评论 阿万没有犯下任何罪行,这可能是真的,但人们会期望国会议员在一个很容易对国家安全产生影响的问题上谨慎行事。 最近破产和失业的伊姆兰·阿万(Imran Awan)如何最终聘请高价律师为与克林顿家族有关联的他辩护? 如果只涉及到一个相对较小的银行欺诈案,那种律师还会接吗? 最后,令人遗憾的是,《俄罗斯之门》的叙事仍然存在挥之不去的担忧。 俄罗斯人是真的侵入了 DNC 还是有其他可能性,包括某种内部工作,“泄密”,由为政府或 DNC 工作的人出于尚未确定的原因进行,甚至可能是真正的人受 DNC 主席 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz 聘用? 当然,公众需要了解的问题还有很多,目前还没有足够的答案。

[一个 早期版本 这篇文章于 3 月 XNUMX 日发表在美国保守党上rd]

 
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  1. It should come as no surprise to anyone that the law is only meant for we ordinary citizens and not for the elite. Those of us who are silently hoping for the indictment of Debbie and Hillary are sure to be sorely disappointed.

    There is no justice anymore in these United States whose domestic and foreign policies are controlled by the deep state. Some days can be so bleak…

    • 同意: Sowhat
  2. Ace 说:

    Foreign-born people should be barred for life from holding any kind of security clearance. I mean in the 高度 unlikely event I were to become a Chinese citizen (and be 40 years younger), would the Chinese be so as to give me a clearance and allow me to work in a key government office?

    Obviously not but forget”obviously” when we’re talking about the U.S.A.

    • 回复: @MEexpert
  3. Ivy 说:

    Where is the outrage? Where is the coverage? Wolf, Anderson, Jake, Erin, anybody at CNN? Of course, I don’t expect them to acknowledge the issue.

    • 同意: David
    • 回复: @Tinker
  4. The Department of Justice needs to do its job looking at the Clintons, the DNC, Wasserman-Schultz, Donna Brazile and others. The stench of corruption is appalling, and the Russia thing looks more like a fraudulent story to keep the pressure off, particularly since the phony dossier which started it was compiled at the behest of a political consultancy which usually works for the same crowd. I think it is about time that Mueller’s fishing expedition be closed down and the necessary draining of the swamp be commenced.

    • 回复: @annamaria
  5. Occam’s razor … she schtupped him, and she must have really enjoyed it.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @Alden
  6. This whole affair sounds like it is more subversion by the ones who control Congress, the Israeli lobbying arm, AIPAC.

    Two reasons for that statement: One is that the MSM, largely owned by American Jews, have barely mentioned this affair and Two, Wasserman-Schultz is one of AIPAC’s Big Guns, the one they use to subvert Congress to Israel’s will.

    • 回复: @hooodathunkit
  7. @The Alarmist

    Good God, I’d rather have my nuts bit off by a Doberman than consort with that witch.

  8. Fall of 1979….Iranian students take US Embassy staff and workers hostage in Tehran Iran…

    In response, young Pakistani Muslim Men storm the US Embassy in Karachi Pakistan and hack to death a 19 year old US Marine from Patchogue Long Island……

    Don’t be shocked if the young Pakistani Men who murdered this teenage US Marine 1)have come to the US legally….2)are Democratic Party Voters voting The Historic Native Born White American Majority into a violently persecuted White racial minority within the borders of America….and 3) one of their sons is a Pakistani Muslim “American” West Point Cadet who represents West Point as a color guard at the Super Bowl because there have been too many White Male West Point Color Guards representing West Point Military Academy at past Super Bowls……”AINT THAT AMERICA!!!!….”YOU AND MOHAMMAD…..”

    Pakistani Muslims on Native Born White Christian American Living and Breeding Space?…Who the F ordered this sewage?….Emanuel Cellar?…..Ted Kennedy?….Jacob Javitts?…..Chuck Schumer?

    “AINT THAT AMERICA!!!….YOU AND MOHAMMAD….”

  9. So what the F exactly is MAGA!!!

    ANSWER:MAGA!!!!=0 Pakistani Muslim LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOREVER!!!+mass expulsion of all Pakistani Muslim “Americans” out of…off of Native Born White Christian American Living and Breeding Space=America…

    Hindu-Sihk India has 250 thousand Indian Troops guarding the India-Pakistan border….go to google images and have a look….

    John Cougar Melloncrap:”AINT THAT AMERICA…..YOU AND KHIZIR KHAN!!!!

  10. Somebody should write a movie script based on this. It would be better than American Hustle – call it Pakistani Hustle, maybe.

    • 回复: @The Alarmist
  11. annamaria 说:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    Actually, the whole Awan-US Congress case is about the High Treason. No security clearances. The open access to the classified documents of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (oh the irony!) and the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/04/exclusive-house-intelligence-it-staffers-fired-in-computer-security-probe/
    There are should be arrests made of those congresspeople who allowed the greatest breach in the national cybersecurity by inviting and financing the non-qualified personnel (fraudulent hiring).
    An important question is, who pays Chris Gowen, a very expensive and well-connected lawyer, for the defense of the documented fraudster and possible spy.
    That Steven Wasserman, Assistant Attorney for the District of Columbia, the brother of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz oversees the investigation is a scandal of gigantic proportions.
    Those making the presstituting peeps about Russiangate should be from now on pummelled with the facts of the Tale of the Brothers Awan.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  12. To put it in more immediate terms:

    Suppose the police arrest an employee of Mrs. S’s liquor distributorship. They tell Mrs. S that they arrested the guy because they got a tip that he was embezzling from the business, and they further tell Mrs. S that they’ve seized the employee’s loaner laptop as evidence.

    Instead of saying, “Good! Let me know what else you find out about that bastard!” Mrs. S says, “You’d better return that laptop to me, or there will be consequences!”

    What does that tell us? Does it raise any questions about the true nature of Mrs. S’s business?

  13. anonymous • 免责声明 说:

    This is a staggering story. What a load of incompetence and coverup. This government is a total sieve. Of course those people were spying. Even if they didn’t want to spy, for whatever reason, the Pakistani government could surely find ways to ‘convince’ them to do so. Most of these politicians appear to be so clueless that it’s difficult to comprehend. It’s just a carnival of taxpayer ripoff in DC.

    • 回复: @Sowhat
  14. @Mustela Mendax

    The pitch would start with, “It’s the Sopranos meet the Simpsons.”

  15. I for one was appalled to learn that the official who quite likely will oversee the investigation of the Awans is one Steven Wasserman, Assistant Attorney for the District of Columbia, the brother of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

    Yup. And guess what? As Assistant DA for DC, Wasserman is also ultimately responsible for investigating the Seth Rich murder … 13 months on and still no leads!

    When the hell are Trump and Sessions going to get serious about going after these freaks?

    • 同意: Rurik, Ivy
    • 回复: @annamaria
    , @Ace
    , @Eagle Eye
  16. The essence of Debbie Wasserman Schultz=The mass extermination of Christian Russia+the mass extermination of The Historic Native Born White Christian American Majority…..this explains everything….

  17. What if the Awan brothers are “cutouts” for another intelligence agency? What if Seth Rich leaked the emails, and they exposed Hillary Clinton to prosecution? What if the “deep state” panicked because it could no longer control the narrative? What if Comey dragged his feet on a slam-dunk investigation because the “deep state” was sure Clinton would win, and it could all be buried? What if they hadn’t had time to consider “Plan B” in time to head off investigation of Clinton Foundation fraud? What if they never expected that Anthony Wiener’s sexting would get his computer seized by the NYPD? What if the whole story extends back to the Mueller, Wolfowitz, Clarke and Tenet cabal, and all of their think-tank gurus? What if somebody realizes that the planning stages had to predate the Bush-Cheney administration? What if Russia-gate and Clinton-gate are playing out as two hands in a game of strip poker? What if one side refuses to fold? What if Hillary threatens to file a sworn affidavit? What if Mueller is the historical analogue of John J. McCloy, the anonymous “deep state” Chairman of the Board? What if this is just a plot in the latest episode of war pornography? What if it’s called, “Debbie Does Dulles”, and its stars include “Many Talented Celebrities”? What are the chances that somebody important goes to jail? I’m guessing the odds are pretty long. I’m betting Hillary has the goods on all of them, and she’ll file that affidavit if she has to.

  18. annamaria 说:

    Killing freedom of speech in America, one google search at a time: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/08/08/google-committed-suppression-free-speech/
    “According to reports, Google works hand in hand with the NSA and CIA to expand unconstitutional spying on everyone everywhere and to suppress independent and dissenting thought and expression. For example, on July 31, the World Socialist Web Site reported that “Between April and June, Google completed a major revision of its search engine that sharply curtails public access to Internet web sites that operate independently of the corporate and state-controlled media. Since the implementation of the changes, many left wing, anti-war and progressive web sites have experienced a sharp fall in traffic generated by Google searches.” https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/31/goog-j31.html

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-01/wikileaks-reveals-googles-strategic-plan-help-democrats-win-election: “Wikileaks Reveals Google’s “Strategic Plan” To Help Democrats Win The Election, Track Voters”

    • 同意: chris
  19. annamaria 说:
    @Seamus Padraig

    “As Assistant DA for DC, Wasserman is also ultimately responsible for investigating the Seth Rich murder … 13 months on and still no leads!”

    Amazing. How come that the name “Wasserman” has become spread over the major ongoing DC scandals: The leak of the DNC emails (the pseudo-Russiangate), the greatest breach in the national cybersecurity (Awan affair), and finally, the death of Seth Rich, a DNC employee who went into contact with Wikileaks re the DNC machinations. Looks like American “democracy on the march,” Clinton style.
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/debbie-wasserman-schultzs-brother-steven-wasserman-accused-burying-seth-rich-case/
    “The Seth Rich Case: Nucleus of An American Coup Attempt:” http://www.phillip-butler.com/seth-rich-case/

    • 回复: @Rurik
    , @EdwardM
    , @chris
  20. @Greg Bacon

    Occam’s sledgehammer – there is nothing so simple or straightforward that it cannot be mangled to force-fit the eevuljoos 叙述。

    So we end up with the shorter Greg Bacon: Imran Awan* is a transgender eevuljo0o operative from Lahore (‘the whore’) working in the perverted Zionist cause of trans-xism under the direction of the transgender homo-jooo leader Debbie Wasserman (Debbie Was-a-Man) Shultz. In a global conspiracy to corrupt the seed of American . . . etc.

    .
    *Jooo feminine name 阿万 is Adam and Eve’s daughter, who was Abel’s sister and lover, and after killing him, Cain had children by her. Incest, murder, double-incest, flight to the east (Pakistan, former jooo land of Nod) to escape justice. It all fits; if you mangle the facts hard enough.

    • 哈哈: iffen
    • 巨魔: Beefcake the Mighty
    • 回复: @Anonymous
    , @Greg Bacon
  21. @F. G. Sanford

    What if the “deep state” panicked because it could no longer control the narrative? What if Comey dragged his feet on a slam-dunk investigation because the “deep state” was sure Clinton would win, and it could all be buried?

    I think those two in particular are beyond the “what if” stage.

  22. densa 说:

    Thanks for this article that adds some pieces of the puzzle, especially with al-Attar and the Clinton lawyer. Obviously this was not a low-level screw up. I really want to learn more about the hiring process.

  23. Anonymous • 免责声明 说:
    @hooodathunkit

    There is nothing so simple or straightforward that it cannot be mangled to force-fit the eevuljoos narrative.

    It required no mangling at all. It fit right in.

  24. @hooodathunkit

    If you know who controls the FED, the US Treasury, Hollywood, the MSM, has Congress sit up and beg for treats and has gotten the WH under their control, you’ll know where this story leads.

    Aided by these ridiculous stories coming out that McMasters is some kind of secret jihad lover and that Shariah law is about to be imposed on the USA, without knowing that the Judaic Noahide Laws already have been passed into law by a craven Congress, then you might see what is really going on.

    • 回复: @Rurik
    , @Wizard of Oz
  25. Rurik 说:
    @annamaria

    the greatest breach in the national cybersecurity (Awan affair)

    and the Trump Justice Dept. seems to have zero interest in it

    I suspect this and other reasons- like the serial leaks from the highest levels of the intelligence agencies are why Trump is becoming openly exasperated with Sessions

    I suspect that Sessions knows that too much exposure of back-room dealings of the deepstate (with perhaps the Senate), would be potentially inconvenient.

    when Lindsey Graham! came to Jeff Sessions defense, I sort of knew then that Jeff Sessions is a deepstate asset

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/27/lindsey-graham-warns-donald-trump-firing-jeff-sess/

  26. Anonymous [AKA "Joe Tedesky"] 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    I’m sorry F.G., but what if all the various narratives, which are being supplied to the Seth Rich murder end up only being a way of hiding the truth within plain sight, so as to make it hard to distinguish between the real, and the phony, narratives which have been put in place, as to only confuse us truth seekers? This is how ‘conspiracy theories’ are made to become conspiracy theories.

    • 回复: @RobinG
  27. There has been surprisingly little media follow-up on the story about the July 25th Dulles Airport arrest of House of Representatives’ employed Pakistani-American IT specialist Imran Awan

    Cuz it’s J-Media.

  28. Rurik 说:
    @Greg Bacon

    If you know who controls the FED, the US Treasury, Hollywood, the MSM

    yea sure. They even brag about it

    but for an impertinent goyim to suspect that they’d actually 使用 all that ill-gotten power to effect policies that are somehow beneficial to the tribe, is nothing less than a blood libel and anti-Semitic canard/smear!

    sure, ((they)) control the Fed and the Treasury and congress and the media, but that has NOTHING! to do with congresses’ sycophantic groveling to Bibi! Or our serial wars for Israel!!

    who they all abase themselves to because Bibi is the leader of the only democracy in the Middle East!!! And as such, is our most important ally in the fight against Global Terror!!!!

    Just because Israel attacked our NSA ship in international waters and tried to sink it with all hands, was only done because just like with the Holocaust, if they don’t take action, the rest of the world will sit on their hands as the Jews are all pushed into the sea by the terrorists/Palestinians!!! Just like they did when the Jews were being pushed into the ovens!!

    So of course they had to attack the USS Liberty! Of course they had to do 9/11, because the American people were too apathetic and anti-Semitic to care about Israel’s existential crisis! If it weren’t for 9/11, the American people would have been perfectly fine allowing Saddam to toss babies out of incubators and threaten Israel! They 民政事务总署 to do it to get the lazy, self-absorbed anti-Semitic Americas to fight!!

    can you blame them?!

    just look at how anti-Semitic Americans are still! To this day pointing out how Jews control the banks and courts and universities .. as if that had some negative significance! 当然 they control those things, but to pretend as if that fact has any significance whatsoever, is to prove that the Jews are right, and that there lingers in every white American a dormant Nazi! And so of course they have to use that control to marginalize the dormant Nazis who will one day want to remove the Jews from those positions of power! Just like the Nuremburg laws! So you see, it’s a circular prophesy. To point out that Jews control these things, is to prove that you’re a Nazi, and which makes it imperative that Jews control these things…

  29. 菲尔写道:

    “Sometimes Congress pushes the process by demanding that its staff have access above and beyond the normal “need to know.” In March 2016, for example, eight Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee 要求 that their staffs be given access to top secret sensitive compartmented information.”

    The linked article on “Atheist Conservative” (under ‘requested’ ) appears to be based on Giraldi’s research. It’s opening paragraph:

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz, erstwhile chairperson of the Democratic National Committee, employed Imran Awan, a Hezbollah-connected Muslim from Pakistan, [sic] as her information technology aide.

    further down, it once again bold-faces a “Hezbollah connection设立的区域办事处外,我们在美国也开设了办事处,以便我们为当地客户提供更多的支持。“

    跆拳道?

    –> Wasserman-Schultz knowingly employed Hezbollah??

    –> “Hezbollah” was tossed in to sex up the intrigue??

    –> Did Giraldi make the Hezbollah connection or was it inserted by the blogger at theAtheist Conservative?

    As for this reader: Pending better evidence, I’m skeptical of a Hezbollah connection: if MSM could use this scandal to further demonize Iran (via Hezbollah), they would have done so.

    -

    btw, The Awan scandal came up on C Span the other day, when Jonathan Turley, a regular guest who comments on matters involving criminal law, discussed the Russia investigation. 17 min. into Turley’s stint, a caller from South Carolina posited questions about Browder/the Magnitsky Act, and about the Awan – Wasserman-Schultz situation https://www.c-span.org/video/?431977-5/washington-journal-jonathan-turley-discusses-russia-investigation .

    In a two-minute response, Turley summarized much of the information that Giraldi included in this article; he pointed ever-so-gently to a “bit of a bias” in media coverage:

    “There has been a little bias, particularly on exclusion of other stories;

    Turley recounted the salient facts of the case and pointed to its many entanglements; Turley stated unequivocally:

    “People on Capitol Hill . . . [if] You are going to start investigating influence on U. S. elections, [then] be fair and look at that with regard to the Pakistani issue, that involves Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and couple other House members. . . . The caller is absolutely right, that should be getting a lot more attention.”

    Turley concluded his response to the Caller from South Carolina:

    I agree with the caller: I don’t understand why this is not on the front page.

    Turley’s response took about 2 minutes, ending at 20.48 with the declaration that this was an important story that “should be on the front page.”

    How did (frequently over-caffeinated) moderator Greta Brawner respond?
    By 20.48 1/2 Brawner had queued up the next call.

    How did C Span’s team of crack journalists follow up to the statement, “This should be getting a lot more attention?”

    C Span’s trademark 3-hour Washington Journal program opens each morning with a question to the audience, drawn from the day’s important news or issues. For the first 30- to 60-minutes of the program, and the last 30 minutes, callers react to that question/issue.

    Since August 1, 2017, when Turley made his comments about the importance of the Wasserman-Schultz-Awan scandal, here are the questions C Span has considered important to raise to its audience:

    Aug 2 2017 Paul Orgel
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewer calls and social media comments on President Trump’s use of Twitter.
    8:08AM Affordable Care Act Insurance Market Stabilization Efforts
    9:06AM Delphine Metcalf-Foster on Supporting Disabled Veterans
    9:29AM Open Phones, Part 2
    10:03AM FBI Headquarters Consolidation

    -----
    Aug 3 2017 John McArdle
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewer calls and social media comments on President Trump’s announcement that he would back a Senate Republican bill aimed at reducing legal immigration by targeting the number of green cards that are issued each year. Dean DeChiaro, speaking by phone, talked about some of the details of the legislation. 

    8:04AM Pete Sepp and Adam Posen on Tax Reform
    9:03AM Lisa Collins on North Korea Nuclear Program

    9:35AM Open Phones, Part 2

    10:03AM Wildlfire Reduction

    11:59AM Atlantic Council Discussion on Cybersecurity
    ----
    Aug 4 2017 John McArdle
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewer comments on the decision by special counsel Robert Mueller to convene a grand jury in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

    8:03AM Dinesh D’Souza on The Big Lie
    8:50AM Rashad Robinson on Affirmative Action
    9:32AM Open Phones, Part 2
    9:37AM Carrie Johnson on Leak Investigations
    ----
    Aug 5 2017 Kimberly Atkins
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1
    Telephone lines were open for viewer calls and social media comments on the U.S. economy.

    8:01AM Eugene O’Donnell on Presiden Trump’s Policing Comments
    8:33AM Jared Genser on Protections for U.S. Citizens Overseas***
    9:04AM Scott Jashick on Affirmative Action in College Admissions
    9:34AM Open Phones, Part 2

    10:01AM Combating ISIS and Protecting Minority Groups in Iraq

    -----
    Aug 6 2017 [Peter Slen]
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewer calls and social media comments from Republicans on the question: “How is President Trump doing?”
    8:04AM Samuel Charap on U.S.-Russia Relations
    8:35AM Jose Miguel Cruz on Transnational Gangs
    9:05AM David Beckworth on the Inflation Rate
    9:33AM Open Phones, Part 2

    ----

    Aug 7 2017 Paul Orgel
    6:59AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewers to offer their messages to Congress on tax reform. Telephone lines were split by income levels.
    8:02AM Stephen Moore and Heidi Shierholz on the U.S. Economy
    8:56AM Charles Johnson on the Cost of Combating ISIS
    9:30AM Open Phones, Part 2
    ----

    Aug 8 2017 Pedro Echevarria
    7:00AM Open Phones, Part 1 Telephone lines were open for viewer comments on the questions “Is legal immigration good or bad for the economy?”
    8:03AM John Fund on President Trump and the Republican Legislative Agenda

    8:32AM Vanita Gupta on Civil Rights in the Trump Era

    9:03AM Anand Parekh on the Opioid Crisis

    9:35AM Open Phones, Part 2

    It’s possible the Wasserman-Schultz – Awan scandal was raised subsequently by a caller to C Span, but as the above schedule of C Span Washington Journal programming displays, if the American people wanted to in-depth information about the Awans, they’d do better to tune in to RT, where Dr. Phil Giraldi explained the case and labeled it “the scandal of the century”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPhsVwMmuU

    • 回复: @Sam Shama
    , @Seamus Padraig
  30. Biff 说:

    n no explanation why she was even allowed to leave since carrying more than \$10,000 out of the country without reporting it is a felony.

    Not a felony, but a mere civil infraction.

    • 回复: @The Alarmist
  31. EdwardM 说:
    @annamaria

    Where is Mr. Wasserman’s boss, the U.S. Attorney for D.C.? Oh, right, it’s an Obama holdover. Why hasn’t President Trump put his own person in this critical job? (Apparently he has nominated someone but as usual the Senate is in no hurry to approve him. Nothing would stop DOJ from firing the current guy and placing the Trump nominee in an acting position, just as Obama did with the incumbent.)

    This story would be hilarious if it weren’t so serious. The quintessential example of foreigners from corrupt societies learning quickly how to work our system. We have to give the Awans credit for milking liberal banks’ and Democrats’ foreigner- and Muslim-worship (combined with sheer stupidity) to refrain from asking any questions.

    • 回复: @annamaria
  32. MEexpert 说:
    @Ace

    Foreign-born people should be barred for life from holding any kind of security clearance.

    Several years ago, I was denied employment in an aerospace company because I was considered a security risk for having relatives abroad. This was done in spite of the fact that I was already working for the same company in another division. In the end, I had the last laugh, because a week later a company employee, a native born white American, was arrested for passing out secret information.

    • 回复: @Ace
  33. Debbie Wasserman Schultz wouldn’t even be a viable political candidate in America 2000-2017 if:

    1)The cockroach JFK had not allowed the Cubans into South Florida

    2)If the 1965 Immigration Reform Act had not passed

    3)If a National Origins Immigration Policy had been implemented that excluded all nonwhites…

    This Paki Muslim “American” computer server scandal and 9/11 would never have occured …and America would still be 90 percent Native Born White American….

    • 同意: Ace
    • 回复: @Hibernian
  34. Sam Shama 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    What evidence prompts your scepticism about the Hezbollah connection? Al-Attar is a known Hezbollah operative with a connection to Awan. Pakistan is next door to Iran which finances Hezbollah. You want all that to be airbrushed away?

  35. chris 说:
    @annamaria

    Maybe it should be called Wassergate.

    • 哈哈: Seamus Padraig
    • 回复: @annamaria
  36. annamaria 说:
    @EdwardM

    There is no Muslim-worship among the ziocons at DNC, who got caught in the Awan affair. The Muslim card is a desperate argument for the currently unstoppable process of investigation. Whether Mr. Wasserman or his boss or Clintons’ lawyer defending Awan for the undisclosed amount of money, the train is moving and the word Treason is in the air.
    The most serious detail of the Awan affair is the violation of the protocol re classified information: The Awan family had no security clearance, there was no documentation of the confirmation of the previous employment and no records for their relevant education/training. Just to reiterate: the family (with a history of fraud and suspicious connections) has an open access to the classified documents of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/04/exclusive-house-intelligence-it-staffers-fired-in-computer-security-probe/
    Wasserman-Schultz has been directly involved in the greatest breach of the national cybersecurity. She tried to impede the investigation and she kept the fraudsters on the US-taxpayers-paid payroll up to the day of the arrest of the main culprit. She did that despite being warned by the police. She should be stripped already of her security clearance and arrested for the breach that was done on her watch and with her active help.

  37. Ace 说:
    @MEexpert

    It’s all about minimizing risk. My respect for Sikhs would make me inclined to grant security clearances to them liberally. My overall position, however, is that we have let in far too many foreigners than sane persons would and are stupidly phlegmatic about leaving illegals here to “make a life for themselves” or “make a contribution” (at the expense of native born Americans).

    You were entitled to the last laugh indeed. We do not lack for native born white Americans. In fact, they are the source of our fundamental problems.

  38. annamaria 说:

    The Kagans’ clan triumph in Ukraine: http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/08/neo-nazi-commander-running-for.html
    “The creator and ex-commander of the Neo- Nazi “Azov” battalion Andrei Biletsky has announced his running for president of Ukraine.”
    This Biletsky: http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/04/ukrainian-nazi-leader-threatens-new.html
    This deserves a special new addition for the Holocaust Museums.

  39. Ace 说:
    @Seamus Padraig

    An Assistant DA is ultimately responsible for what the DA tells him to be responsible for.

    • 回复: @Seamus Padraig
    , @Alden
  40. @SolontoCroesus

    Pending better evidence, I’m skeptical of a Hezbollah connection: if MSM could use this scandal to further demonize Iran (via Hezbollah), they would have done so.

    I’m skeptical, too. Awan is from Pakistan, and the overwhelming majority of Pakis are Sunni. But Hezbollah is famously a Shiite resistance movement, so why would there be a connection between them?

    Pending a better investigation, I’m going to assume this is 哈斯巴拉.

  41. @Ace

    His boss, no doubt, is also an Obama flunkee.

    • 回复: @Ace
  42. @Biff

    Not reporting carrying more than \$10k across the border can be either a criminal charge with fines up to \$500k and jail time, or a civil violation which often results in all unreported assets being seized and forfeit and possibly with a civil penalty of up to the amount forfeit, or even both criminal and civil. The fact that she was allowed to go on her way with her cash shows an unusual deference to the lady.

  43. Ace 说:
    @Seamus Padraig

    That’s entirely possible given Trump’s bewildering indifference to personnel matters.

    He appears to have been hamstrung at the outset, eschewing both philosophical leadership and staffing up with loyalists. His director of personnel is a bad joke but Trump simply doesn’t see it or care. He made a point of saying how he hires good people and lets them run but competent isn’t the same thing as loyal or otherwise appropriate.

  44. Sowhat 说:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    I agreed but it sure would be nice if Sessions would get her…and her brother.

    • 回复: @Philip Giraldi
  45. Sowhat 说:
    @anonymous

    It could possibly be a case of intensional incompetence. There are a huge number of people IN Congress that are totally committed to destruction from within. The Trojan Horse has been within the gates for a surprising number of years. Trevor Loudon has an interesting video on Amazon titled The Enemies (inclde the “s”) Within. If accurate, it IS intensional incompetence. It may be on Youtube as well.

  46. La (w)hore Pakistan is most likely in bed with her pimp du jour, China and using the Pakis working for the US Congress to secure data to be passed on to their handlers at ISI who in turn, pass it on to Beijing. And let’s not forget the Saudis…

    • 回复: @Alden
  47. RobinG 说:
    @Anonymous

    F.G. said “What if the Awan brothers are “cutouts” for another intelligence agency?” But of course. They’re perfect patsies, just like in our most famous “conspiracy theory” dubbed case.

    Were the Awan brothers really gathering intelligence for Pakistan’s ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence)? And was the ISI on secret contract with the C.I.A.?

    http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=20927

    AWANGATE: A CIA Black Operation That Used Pakistan’s ISI To Do The Dirty Work While MOSSAD’s Inside Woman Directs

  48. Eagle Eye 说:
    @Seamus Padraig

    As Assistant DA for DC, Wasserman is also ultimately responsible for investigating the Seth Rich murder … 13 months on and still no leads!

    In a recent broadcast, Michael Savage suddenly savaged what he called “fake news from the right” such as the Seth Rich murder, Pizzagate (which he misrepresented as relating to hookers), etc. The presentation seemed curiously disengaged.

    My guess is that Savage and his family were physically threatened.

    • 同意: Seamus Padraig
  49. @Sam Shama

    What evidence prompts your scepticism about the Hezbollah connection?

    Read what was written: LACK of evidence — in the face of the logic of antipathies — prompts the skepticism.

    Pakistan is next door to Iran which finances Hezbollah. You want all that to be airbrushed away?

    Israel shares borders with Lebanon, which is home to Hezbollah; it was at Israel’s instigation that Hezbollah came into being.
    Does that constitute “evidence” that Israel supports Hezbollah and is also/likewise complicit in Wassergate (h/t Chris @ #35)?
    Or do you prefer that Israel’s involvement be airbrushed away?

    • 回复: @Sam Shama
  50. geokat62 说:
    @annamaria

    Wassergate. Great suggestion.

    I prefer Zion-gate.

    • 回复: @iffen
  51. Alden 说:
    @Pachyderm Pachyderma

    I think you are absolutely right that the Pakis passed on information to China and any other country willing to pay for it.

  52. Sam Shama 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    相关段落是:

    Ali A. Al-Attar fled the United States after the indictment to avoid arrest and imprisonment and is now considered a fugitive from justice. Late in 2012 he was observed in Beirut Lebanon conversing with a Hezbollah official. Al-Attar is of interest in this case because he appears to have been a friend of Imran Awan and also loaned him \$100,000, which was never repaid. The FBI is currently looking into any possible international espionage specifically involving the two men as Awan and his associates clearly had access to classified information while working in the House of Representatives that would have been of interest to any number of foreign governments.

    You think that line of inquiry should not be pursued? To me, that would amount to negligence of serious proportions.

    Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Pakistani Hezb-ul-mujahideen and Tehreek e-Islam all co-operate with a fluidity, ignoring any Shia-Sunni divide [although not particularly important in this context, Imran Awan might even be Shia, as many Pakistanis are]. A security breach of Congressional computers will consider all those angles.

    Iran, funds all of them, in greater or lesser degrees.

  53. @Greg Bacon

    Sorry, without mention of the Deep State this is like a discussion of Gravity which purports to be complete but its only got Einstein on one side, a d no one to represent Quantum Physics. You leave readers in a black hole.

  54. Hibernian 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    Your channeling of Judge Nap gets kind of old after about 5 sentences.

  55. Hibernian 说:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Don’t think Cuban immigration to Miami helped leftists like Wasserman-Schultz. Sure some of the voted for her and others like her, especially later arrivals. Mostly they provided support for the Diaz-Balart brothers, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, and Marco Rubio.

  56. @Sam Shama

    Please revisit your reference to Pakistan (Sunni) and Iran (Shia) being next to each other (as are Ukraine and Russia and North and South Korea etc) and try and make that comment meet your usual standards.

  57. notanon 说:

    It was also believed that they had somehow obtained entry to much of the House of Representatives’ computer network as well as to other information in the individual offices’ separate computer systems that they were in theory not allowed to access.

    If they were spying on Sanders’ campaign for DWS then Seth Rich’s leaks could ultimately lead to them giving them a motive.

  58. Talha 说:

    Ha ha!!! Pakistan zindabad! All your base are belong us!!!

  59. Alden 说:
    @Ace

    Why would an ADA who prosecutes bank fraud investigate a murder? In a big city like DC the DA’s office has several departments. Does anyone know if the DA’s investigators are even investigating?

    Generally, the DA’s office doesn’t get involved until the police have a suspect and presentable evidence.

    • 回复: @Ace
  60. Ace 说:
    @Alden

    I hate to say much about D.C. as it has some weird features being the seat of government. In general, I think you’re right. I expect prosecutors to rely on specialists in their offices to handle murder cases. Nor are they are lightly to be taken on by defense counsel. Crimes involving banks are of great interest to DOJ and the FBI. I don’t know what bank-related offenses might be handled by state prosecutors.

    I don’t know if there’s an active investigation of Rich’s murder. The former detective hired by his family seemed to be getting the run around from the police at one point. I get the impression that no one is hugely interested in the murder from what some commenters have said. It seems highly unlikely he was killed in the course of a robbery “that went bad” as the libs like to say.

    • 回复: @RobinG
  61. RobinG 说:
    @Ace

    Highly unlikely. Libs. Right. This is for you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XovBsfVxmqw
    With SETH RICH INVESTIGATOR & Citizen Journalist @RealMattCouch LIVE in Washington DC

  62. MEexpert 说:
    @Sam Shama

    Al-Attar is a known Hezbollah operative with a connection to Awan.

    And you know this, how? Do you have personal knowledge of it? Just because someone was seen talking to a Hezbollah member in Beirut doesn’t mean he is a Hezbollah operative.

    Pakistan is next door to Iran which finances Hezbollah.

    Just like Israel is next door to Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon and gives all kinds of assistance to ISIS.

    • 回复: @Sam Shama
  63. dcite 说:

    It seems highly unlikely he was killed in the course of a robbery “that went bad” as the libs like to say.

    Robbery is ok to liberals, depending on the demographics of the perp and victim. However, even they find it harder to be so positive about murder, so that’s a “robbery gone bad.”
    Even intelligent people like the detective use that absurd term without thinking.

    • 回复: @Alden
  64. She radiates insanity, and one can barely imagine the storms and pandemonia passing through her deranged mind.
    And the great tragedy is lunatics such as her are pulling the strings in this country.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Scoiety member since 1973, airborne qualified US army Vet, and pro Jazz artist.

  65. Sam Shama 说:
    @MEexpert

    And you know this, how? Do you have personal knowledge of it? Just because someone was seen talking to a Hezbollah member in Beirut doesn’t mean he is a Hezbollah operative.

    The two questions are basically irrelevant on an internet forum, so desist from pablum of the type. FinCEN inquiries are of vital relevance here, particularly those concerning Lebanese Canadian Bank, Al-Attar’s (an Iranian born Iraqi citizen) contacts with Haitham Rmeiti.

    Just like Israel is next door to Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon and gives all kinds of assistance to ISIS.

    Israel’s geographical position amidst hostile neighbours, all of whom are Muslim, is a bit different than the one I mentioned, without going into too much depth.[ Israeli doctors aid any and all injured or otherwise in need of medical assistance, including the life-saving procedures performed on PA chief Abbas and his kin. Let’s not make this discussion devolve into this trope of “Israel helps ISIS!”]

    This is most likely an ISI infiltration of U.S Congressional data with Hezbollah (Iran) as imprimaturs.

    • 回复: @MEexpert
  66. MEexpert 说:
    @Sam Shama

    Israeli doctors aid any and all injured or otherwise in need of medical assistance, including the life-saving procedures performed on PA chief Abbas and his kin.

    You must be joking. Help, like the one the Israeli soldier gave to the injured palestinian by shooting him point blank or when Israeli soldiers prevent palestinians from going to hospitals and let them die on the road. Abbas is on Israeli payroll. Israel needs to keep him alive to be used in the future.

    Let’s not make this discussion devolve into this trope of “Israel helps ISIS!”]

    Why not? It is a fact. Israel has been helping injured ISIS terrorists and sending them back to the battle front. Truth hurts.

    • 同意: chris
    • 回复: @Sam Shama
  67. @Cloak And Dagger

    The killing of Seth Rich is not in the news. The killing of AG Lynch pilot is not in the news, the scandal of theft from Haity charity funds by the Clinton crime family is not in the news. The funding of Hillary election campaign by Qatar and Saudi Arabia is not in the news. The American Uranium given to the Russian by the Clintons is not in the news. I can go on and on. My point is our population has been converted to robots. The media will tell them to get angry, and they get angry. They tell them to think sh’t happen, and they will disregard theft and murder. Our media is the number one enemy to this republic. Trump should save the nukes; instead of bombing N.Korea, he should bomb The NY Times and the Washington Post? Our destruction is coming from within! Idiots like McCain, for example should be behind bars in Guantanamo?

    • 同意: Seamus Padraig
    • 回复: @Authenticjazzman
  68. @RobinG

    The issue about Seth Rich, and the complete silenced media about it makes people who rightly distrusted the libturds create stories. The narratives of Silverstein purchase of WTC on the cheap, and the Asbestos issues of these towers, and the melting point of steel have never been discussed by the media, thus the people are free to create theories.

    Cover ups are done for reasons. Idiots who think that our population is 100% stupid, are mistaken, there are at least 10% of America who have some brain, and interest in knowing the truth.

    • 回复: @Alden
  69. Sam Shama 说:
    @MEexpert

    Elor Azaria has been stripped-off of his IDF service record [a highly punitive action, tantamount to social ostracism], convicted and gaoled, his appeals rejected by the military court. This stands in contrast to the rewards and pension payments made to terrorists on PA’s and Hamas’ payrolls who view murder as a means of earning a comfortable livelihood. The Trump administration has asked the PA to discontinue this policy.

    I was speaking about Israeli doctors, especially those operating from her northern border, not vengeful halfwits.

    No further discussion on this matter will be forthcoming from me, so, by all means, feel free to rant on.

    • 回复: @MEexpert
  70. iffen 说:
    @geokat62

    I prefer Zion-gate.

    每一个。 该死。 时间。

  71. Alden 说:
    @dcite

    This is only circumstantial evidence. But the fact that the shooting took place at 4:19 AM is circumstantial evidence that it wasn’t an ordinary street crime.
    By 4 AM the victims and criminals are home in bed. There’s a big surge of street crime between 2 and 3 AM when the bars and clubs close and customers and employees go home. But after 3 almost nothing.

    And nothing normal like phone and wallet was stolen. It would take less than a minute to start searching for wallet etc. Although there is no way of knowing what Rich was carrying and if anything was taken.

    A nurse claims Rich was expected to recover and the death in the hospital was suspicious.

    Whoever had him killed is very arrogant and sure of themselves. They expected to just shoot him and get away with it. And they succeeded.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  72. Alden 说:
    @Man on the street

    Steel and other metal doesn’t have to actually melt to become useless. Steel just has to soften enough to bend under the weight of 30 stories and a tower will come down. . Even railroad tracks become soft enough to bend in ordinary heat waves of 100F+. Lots of cookware is not supposed to go in ovens with temperatures over 500F. Baking pans often get warped even in 375 F ovens after a while. I don’t know enough about engineering and physics to have an opinion about the steel columns that supported the towers. But I do know about jewish lightning and the NYC tradition of insurance fraud to believe Silverstein was in on it. I suspect he gave a major kick back of the insurance payment to whoever arranged the attack on the WTC.

    Does anyone know if the columns were steel or just some kind of iron steel mix?

    • 回复: @Seamus Padraig
  73. @Man on the street

    Look haven’t you figured out yet that the US/world Media is simply the propaganda arm of the DNC, and they, the DNC agents/operatives within the media, most certainly will not implicate their own scoundrels involved in any of these numerous crimes, period.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Society 自 1973 年以来的成员,空降合格的美国陆军兽医和职业爵士音乐家。

  74. Alden 说:
    @The Alarmist

    I don’t think Debbie and Awan had anything sexual going on. They were ghost employees who seldom showed up. They probably bribed Debbie to get the job and then gave her kickbacks from their salaries and bank loans. That is standard hiring and retention practice in turd world countries.

    They are plenty of do nothing ghost employees in government jobs in DC. Usually its a wife employed by another congress critter. Or not really employed or working, just on the payroll. All the City of Chicago Alderman and Cook County Ill Supervisors had such an arrangement of do nothing wives and relatives on each other’s payrolls. The Chicago Sun Times and Tribune were not totally PR agencies for the Demorats at the time so it was a big scandal. Nothing was done of course. Maybe some of the wives and relatives showed up for “work” for a couple weeks, but it continued.

    As far as I know, Nancy Pelosi’s children don’t seem to have real careers. They sort of drift from some bogus city job to another.

  75. Skeptikal 说:
    @annamaria

    Yes, one can’t help noticing the ongoing Tsunami of Russiagate babble as compared to the remarkable silence concerning actual fraud, security, and treason issues raised by this Awan Brothers scandal.

    • 同意: Sowhat
    • 回复: @annamaria
  76. Skeptikal 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    FG:

    I can follow your story until here.
    “What if somebody realizes that the planning stages had to predate the Bush-Cheney administration? What if Russia-gate and Clinton-gate are playing out as two hands in a game of strip poker? What if one side refuses to fold? What if Hillary threatens to file a sworn affidavit?”

    Why do”planning stages” predate Bush-Chency admin?
    Planning stages of what?
    Not sure what you are saying also with the Russia-Gate /Clinton-Gate thing.
    Nor with the “One side refuses to fold” and the sworn affadavit?

    Can you flesh this out for me? Thanks.

    • 回复: @F. G. Sanford
  77. Tinker 说:
    @Ivy

    If you really want to know what is going on with the Awan Bros., DWS, DNC, Hilary, Dem Congressmen go to this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lZnOS1O6k0
    IT IS AMAZING WHAT ISN’T BEING COVERED BY THE MSM

    • 回复: @Eagle Eye
  78. MEexpert 说:
    @Sam Shama

    Elor Azaria has been stripped-off of his IDF service record [a highly punitive action, tantamount to social ostracism], convicted and gaoled, his appeals rejected by the military court.

    Typical hit and run behavior of Zionists. Say your piece and run. Not going to let you get away with it.

    Elor Azaria is a national hero in Israel. His appeal may have been rejected by the court but there is a petition being circulated for clemency for him, which has Netanyahu’s full support. It is almost certain that he will soon be freed.

    This stands in contrast to the rewards and pension payments made to terrorists on PA’s and Hamas’ payrolls who view murder as a means of earning a comfortable livelihood.

    PA gets its money from Israel as Mahmoud Abbas is on Israel’s payroll. Ben-Gorian , Begin, Sharon, and Shamir were all terrorists. Now they are heroes. Hamas is fighting for the land stolen by the Zionists. Only a demented mind will call them terrorists.

    Sticking your head in the sand is not going to make the truth go away.

    • 回复: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Skeptikal
  79. @Alden

    Steel is an alloy of aluminum and iron.

    • 回复: @F. G. Sanford
  80. @Skeptikal

    Simply go to YouTube and re-watch that interview with Matt Lauer. “Me in handcuffs will never happen…cackle, cackle, cackle!” You gotta quit being so…skeptical. What could she possibly know that makes her bulletproof? It’s not the least bit difficult to figure out.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  81. @Seamus Padraig

    Steel is iron and carbon, not an “alloy”, but some steel is prepared by alloying iron with tungsten or other metals. Stainless steel is mostly nickel. Railroad tracks don’t “melt” due to hot weather, but they may warp on the ties due to linear expansion. That is rare and does not generally result in permanent deformation. And, steel cannot melt in a kerosene fire. If steel were so vulnerable to high temperature, your self-cleaning oven would be a lump of slag by now. Cheers!

    • 回复: @MarkinLA
  82. annamaria 说:
    @Skeptikal

    On a different but related theme, there is more news on the Kagans’ clan’ triumph in Ukraine: “Ukraine hollows out,” http://theduran.com/ukraine-hollows-out/
    “Since independence and especially since the Maidan coup Ukraine has experienced a population collapse unprecedented in post Second World War Europe.
    ....
    The economic and demographic collapse of Ukraine puts it in an extremely weak position compared to all of its neighbors: Ukraine is now in all aspects much weaker than the smaller Romania, Slovakia and Hungary. The main problem, however, may come from Poland, which has not forgotten that almost 100,000 km² of the West of Ukraine used to belong to Poland until 1939. The relations between the two countries are already getting sour because of the glorification of Ukrainian nationalists and Ukrainian Waffen-SS volunteers, who massacred not only Jews but also many Poles. There is no risk of war between the two countries in a foreseeable future, but Poland, America’s most servile vassal in Eastern Europe, knows how easy it can be to invade another country in the name of democracy and Western values and get away with it. This may be far-fetched, but more simply if millions of West-Ukrainians live in Poland and obtain Polish citizenship, Ukraine might very well become Poland’s vassal state. Hiding the real demographic disaster might prevent Polish politicians from even planning such a take-over.”

  83. MarkinLA 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    If steel were so vulnerable to high temperature, your self-cleaning oven would be a lump of slag by now. Cheers!

    Your oven isn’t subject to high temperatures. 550 degrees F is nothing. You forget that your oven cycles on and off to maintain a relatively low heat. There is no way to know for a fact what will happen when something over 100 tons slams into a building going 500 MPH and burns tons of jet fuel causing the steel to soften while still having to support 30 floors of a building.

    • 回复: @F. G. Sanford
    , @Alden
    , @dcite
    , @Anon
  84. Eagle Eye 说:
    @Tinker

    How about giving us some bullet points of what the video says? Or is this just clickbait?

    Some people prefer to READ.

    • 同意: Alden
  85. @MarkinLA

    It doesn’t matter how many tons of kerosene or how long it burns, kerosene can’t get close to hot enough. And in the self- cleaning mode, your oven is way hotter than 500F. But have at it if you will, some people believe in the Easter Bunny too. That doesn’t change the fact that rabbits don’t lay eggs.

    • 回复: @MarkinLA
  86. Skeptikal 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    This doesn’t answer my basic question, which is not meant to be hostile. Just a question.
    So, comment about “don’t be so skeptical” is pointless comment.
    I am not be sceptical; I am being ignorant. Big difference. But not getting further infos out of F.G.

    • 回复: @F. G. Sanford
  87. Skeptikal 说:
    @RobinG

    Jeez, after a minute I can see why this is “citizen journalism” and no way “professional level journalism.” Get it together, guys. I am waiting for some news.

  88. @Skeptikal

    No, you are not ignorant. You are obviously a nice person and quite intelligent. You are also probably more curious than skeptical, but no need to split hairs. I can suggest a line of reasoning, but I cannot go further than that. A man convinced against his will is a man of the same opinion still. Most people are beyond convincing once they have drawn a conclusion. Consider the timeline. That’s as far as I’m willing to go. If Hillary Clinton goes to jail, that will prove I was wrong.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
    , @Skeptikal
  89. Alden 说:
    @MarkinLA

    My self cleaning oven manual says it cleans at 800 degrees.

    • 回复: @MarkinLA
  90. @MEexpert

    Begin etc “wete all terrorists”. But “only a demented mind will call them [Hamas] terrorists”. Que?!

  91. Skeptikal 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    You, too, are probably “quite intelligent.” And you also sound somewhat coy.
    That is why I don’t understand why you don’t answer my basic questions, which is, how you get to “planned before Cheney-Bush.” And what, precisely, was planned before Cheney-Bush?
    Spit it out, man!

    • 回复: @RobinG
  92. Skeptikal 说:
    @RobinG

    So you are saying there is a direct line between the PNAC and the Seth Rich thing?
    That Seth Rich derailed the PNAC plan?Or, you are saying that Hillary’s election was integral to the PNAC plan to continue to take over the world and sideline Russia, and SEth Rich queered her election.
    这是重点吗?

    • 回复: @RobinG
  93. RobinG 说:
    @Skeptikal

    Sorry, I spoke out of turn.. Maybe FG will explain about his “… Mueller, Wolfowitz, Clarke and Tenet cabal, and all of their think-tank gurus?”

  94. Skeptikal 说:
    @MEexpert

    ” Ben-Gorian , Begin, Sharon, and Shamir were all terrorists. ”
    Yes, also Moshe Arens–all of the top guys. Some of them were in the Revisionist Zionist youth group Betar, inspired by Jabotinksy, who was their hero. Revisionist Zionism was not religious. The impetus for the Jewish state *用过的* the religion as a pretext for their militant state, without actually believing in it. Self-righteous bandits, actually. Some had emigrated to the USA, were educated here, enjoyed the advantages of US citizenship etc., then returned as young fanatics to Palestine (no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, youth organizations connected to a political party). There they deliberately founded their camps outside the areas where Jews had already settled/bought land, I think they called it the Jerusalem Corridor. That is, the aim was to provoke and harass and terrorize established Palestinian villages, near water supplies, etc. The project for the new Jewish caliphate can in many respects be compared to the ISIS project for a new caliphate.
    This is off-topic for this thread on Seth Rich, but . . . Begin and Co. were all terrorists.

    • 回复: @SolontoCroesus
  95. Skeptikal 说:
    @Alden

    =
    They expected to just shoot him and get away with it. And they succeeded.”
    The shooters must have been amateurs.
    A professional would have killed with the first shot.

  96. annamaria 说:

    A picture of a man trusted by the US Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVavTF6hR0
    This swindler, tax evader, and scoundrel, who single-handedly propelled Magnitsky Act through the clueless US Congress, is running like a petty thief (that he is at his heart) from a subpoena. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/09/how-congress-learns-about-russia/

  97. geokat62 说:

    最新消息:

    Israel Held Secret Talks With US, Russia to Object to Syria Ceasefire

    Israel Complains Calm in Syria Benefits Iran

    Israeli officials and other diplomats familiar with the situation are finally detailing the circumstances regarding the lead-up to the southern Syrian ceasefire agreement reached between the US and Russia, revealing secret talks were held in Amman and in an unnamed European capital city about the plan beforehand.

    Israeli officials were involved in the talks, and unsurprising given their public position since the ceasefire was announced, made clear they were unconditionally opposed to the ceasefire agreement, and objected to the creation of safe zones to limit combat in the areas.

    The reason for Israel’s opposition to the ceasefire similarly appears to have been exactly what they’ve complained about since, that the[y] believe any calm in Syria necessarily benefits Iran, and that anything that might conceivably move toward ending the Syria War must hand Iran some sort of specific defeat.

    It is this Iran-centric view of the Syrian conflict, despite Iran having a fairly limited involvement in it, which has led Israeli military officials to say they don’t want ISIS to lose in Syria, and since the ceasefire’s announcement that they are prepared to join the conflict simply to ensure that Iran, by which they mean the Shi’ite government, doesn’t win.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2017/08/09/israel-held-secret-talks-with-us-russia-to-object-to-syria-ceasefire/

  98. Skeptikal 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    Dear Mr. FG:
    You are funny with your “quite intelligent” and “nice person.”
    Only the more intelligent can assess the less or “quite.”
    You actually thought I was serious when I said “I am ignorant.”
    I meant: In this context, as I cannot follow all of your argument.
    You sound like you take yourself very seriously indeed and have quite a high opinion of yourself!!

  99. geokat62 说:

    The latest developments in Zion-gate. It appears the Israel-firsters have managed to partner with the R2Pers to create a new think tank, a successor to PNAC, called (in true Orwellian fashion) the Alliance for Securing (Regime Change… er I mean) Democracy.

    The emerging unholy alliance between hawkish Democrats and neoconservatives

    President Trump’s gibes about the failure of our foreign policy establishment and his call for a still rudimentary “America first” policy have led hawkish Republican neoconservatives to close ranks with “indispensable nation” Democrats. A remarkably unrepentant establishment has moved to resistance. If the United States is to avoid the limited choice between the delusional and the disastrous, a new progressive stance on foreign policy is utterly imperative.

    The neocons — led by the likes of Bill Kristol, Max Boot and Dick Cheney — were the ideological motor behind President George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq, the worst foreign policy debacle since the Vietnam War. The indispensable-nation crowd — personified by Hillary Clinton, Madeleine Albright and Michele Flournoy — were initial supporters of the Iraq War, championed President Barack Obama’s “surge” in Afghanistan and helped orchestrate the disastrous regime change in Libya. Neither the neocons nor the indispensable-nation crowd has been instructed nor daunted by failure.

    Illustrative of their emerging alliance, as Glenn Greenwald reports, is yet another Beltway foreign policy initiative: the 民主保障联盟. The Alliance describes itself as a “bipartisan, transatlantic initiative” focused on Russia. Its purpose is to “develop comprehensive strategies to defend against, deter and raise the costs on Russian and other actors,” while working to “expose Vladimir Putin’s ongoing efforts to subvert democracy in the United States and Europe.” Consider this an updated version of Kristol and Robert Kagan’s 1997 Project for the New American Century, which fulminated for the invasion of Iraq. The Alliance’s advisory council includes Jake Sullivan, Clinton’s foreign policy adviser, and Mike Morell, acting CIA director under Obama. They sit comfortably with Kristol, Mike Chertoff, homeland security secretary under Bush, and hawkish former Republican congressman Mike Rogers. With a record of catastrophic foreign policy fiascoes, the establishment comes together to strike back.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-emerging-unholy-alliance-between-hawkish-democrats-and-neoconservatives/2017/08/08/3c1c7676-7bb5-11e7-9d08-b79f191668ed_story.html?utm_term=.1fb5ce8dae75

  100. geokat62 说:

    This one is for Corvy, who is still expecting the Lugenpresse of Weimerica (e.g.,. the NYT and WaPo) to print these kinds of stories on their respective front pages:

    How a Free Syrian Army Unit Uncovered the Rebels’ Israeli Connection and Switched Sides

    Founded as one of the dizzying array of fighting units in Syria’s six-year civil war, the genesis of the Golan Brigade was one of the most remarkable. The brigade was established in 2014 by Syrian fighters who had defected from the Free Syrian Army rebel group after they made a shocking discovery: their unit had been coordinating with the Israelis.

    After switching sides to support the Syrian government, they witnessed the Israeli military providing direct air cover for attacks launched against them by Al Qaeda. The Israelis even tried to kill Majed on several occasions before Al Qaeda’s Syrian franchise, Nusra, finally did him in.

    This July, I met veterans of the Golan Brigade and heard their stories. They painted a picture of the war that stood almost entirely at odds with the dominant narrative of the conflict spun out in Western mainstream media. And this is perhaps why they have received so little attention.

    http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/free-syrian-army-unit-uncovered-rebels-israeli-connection-and-switched-sides#.WYs-wm7xJGk.twitter

    • 回复: @annamaria
  101. annamaria 说:
    @geokat62

    Israel needs ISIS to secure the Golan Heights. This is why Israelis do not want to see ISIS defeated and this is why Russians are vilified by the MSM ziocon presstitutes. The US servile brass jumps on Israelis order to please AIPAC. https://www.rt.com/op-edge/399108-us-lies-russia-nato/
    “In September 2015, following an official request by the Syrian government for military assistance against Islamic State fighters on its territory, Russia entered the fray. Before Russia’s grand entrance, ISIS had managed to not only put up stiff resistance against US-led forces; they also managed to operate a lucrative oil exporting business. Russia wasted no time putting this operation out of business, while helping Syria liberate major ISIS strongholds, including Palmyra and Aleppo.

    Despite Russian military successes in Syria with regards to eliminating ISIS, the US has stubbornly refused to help Russia in its efforts. This became apparent last summer when Moscow urged Washington to provide it with the location and coordinates of fighting forces to avoid incidents and prevent any accidental strikes on those groups fighting ISIS and Jabhat Al Nusra.
    The US inexplicably refused to share those coordinates.

    “As a result, terrorists in Syria are actively regrouping, and tensions are soaring again. It cannot continue this way indefinitely,” the head of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov said, adding that the Russian Defense Ministry had supplied the US with a list of its terrorist targets.

    Gerasimov then pointed the finger at the US for double standards concerning what constitutes ceasefire violations. “In their opinion, missile bombardments of Syrian government troops and communities by militants should be considered by all as ‘insignificant violations’ of the ceasefire. But any proportionate response to the militants by the Syrian military is at once declared as disproportionate strikes on the opposition,” Gerasimov said.

    In April, the Trump administration launched a military strike – the first US attack on Syrian military assets – on the Syrian government’s Al-Shayrat air base in response to unsubstantiated claims the Syrian government used chemical weapons that killed civilians in Idlib Province.

    The tragedy of the Syrian six-year civil war is that so much violence and bloodshed could have been avoided had the United States welcomed Russia’s willingness to join the fight against terrorism in the country. Instead, Washington has chosen a path that attempts to punish Russia, I believe, for interfering in yet another US attempt at regime change in yet another sovereign state. That is the real source of US contempt for Russia at this particular juncture in bilateral relations between the nuclear powers. Not some imaginary “hacking of the US elections,” or “Russian aggression.” That’s just media camouflage.”

  102. annamaria 说:

    The US is ruled by AIPAC in cahoot with war profiteers of Cheney kind: http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-grants-golan-heights-oil-license-2013-2

    “以色列已授予一家美国公司在被占领的戈兰高地勘探石油和天然气的首个许可证,英国《金融时报》的约翰·里德报道。

    纽约上市公司 Genie Energy 的当地子公司——由前副总裁迪克切尼提供建议,其股东包括雅各布罗斯柴尔德和鲁珀特默多克——现在将拥有该地区南部 153 平方英里半径的独家权利。戈兰高地。

    该地理位置可能会引起争议。 以色列在 1967 年的六日战争中夺取了戈兰高地,并于 1981 年吞并了该领土。在 23 个月前叙利亚内战爆发之前,它对该地区的管理——不受国际法承认——基本上是和平的。

    “这一行动主要是政治性的——它试图加深以色列对被占领戈兰高地的承诺,”以色列政治分析家亚伦·埃兹拉希告诉英国《金融时报》。 “这个时机与叙利亚政府正在处理暴力和混乱,不能随意处理这个问题的事实直接相关。”

    The Syrian tragedy — and the whole history of the US “humanitarian intervention” in the Middle East — brings to mind the Holocaust Museums. The state of Israel is living through moral death. The Lobby stinks from the rot.

  103. “Did the Russians really hack into the DNC or were there other possibilities, to include some kind of inside job, a “leak,” carried out by someone working for the government or DNC for reasons that have yet to be determined, possibly even someone actually employed by DNC chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?”

    Craig Murray said it was a leak as far back as 2016 and stated he’d met the leaker with all subsequent clues pointing to Seth Rich (the old ‘it’s a leak not a hack’ story that seemed to bug Robin G to no end.) Now, just a week or so ago a recording had been released wherein Seymour Hersh states ‘Russiagate’ is a creation of John Brennan’s imagination and names the leaker as DNC computer technician Seth Rich, it would seem altogether independently of Craig Murray:

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/seymour-hersh-phone-call-russiagate-disinformation/230531/

    ps, for Robin G, I see you’re still pushing the same stoner-citizen ‘journalists’ (they come across like they smoke WAY too much weed) that couldn’t find their own butt-cheeks with both hands… jeeez… what’s up with that? Afraid of succinct reporting on Seth Rich?

    So, what’s up with the writers at 乌兹网? Nothing on the Seymour Hersh recording where he flat out states the FBI KNOWS Seth Rich dumped the DNC mail on wikileaks and the Russia story is a CIA invention? ? ?? ???

    • 回复: @Seamus Padraig
  104. Rurik 说:

    the FBI KNOWS Seth Rich dumped the DNC mail on wikileaks and the Russia story is a CIA invention?

    we all know that because we all know by now that the FBI had no interest in looking at the DNC servers and computers. When the Federal Bureau of Investigations showed no interest in INVESTIGATING Federal crimes, it was 明显。

    just as the ‘Russian’ lunacy is all obvious

    what isn’t so obvious are the motivating factors…

    is Trump part of a rogue deepstate breakaway faction?

    are there elements inside the CIA/FBI/NSA etc.. that whisked Trump into office because they really hate Hillary 很多?

    those are the kinds of questions that we 知道..

  105. annamaria 说:

    Smart bribing: “Fifty-three members of US Congress off to Israel for their annual brainwashing” http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47573.htm
    “A decade ago, the House banned groups from paying for extended trips as part of the fallout from the scandal over lobbyist Jack Abramoff. But a loophole allowed educational foundations to pick up the tab. The Israel trips are estimated at \$10,000 per person.
    “Members of Congress feel indebted to someone who provides them with a week’s long vacation. It’s lobbying and it’s more effective than direct lobbying on Capitol Hill,” Craig Holman of the watchdog group Public Citizen, who helped draft the 2007 laws, told the Tampa Bay Times in 2013.
    “This is not what lobbying should be about,” Holman said. “It should be about providing information and expertise so lawmakers can make better decisions, not trying to buy their favors with gifts and travel junkets.”

  106. dcite 说:
    @MarkinLA

    over 100 tons slams into a building going 500 MPH and burns tons of jet fuel causing the steel to soften while still having to support 30 floors of a building.

    I know it wouldn’t look like a knife through soft butter or an animated cartoon with special effects direct from Hollywood. Nor would the Tower collapse into a neat footprint like a well-bred Victorian lady fainting in coils, one of the mysteries the Mock Turtle confided to Alice in Wonderland.

    But better minds than mine have taken a look at all that, over these past 16 years, and concluded, no, it would not have happened like the Official Commission says.

    • 回复: @MarkinLA
  107. Anonymous [AKA "cn13"] 说:

    Can I please give a shout out Debbie’s hairstylist!!!

    Now that is the gift that keeps on giving.

  108. @Skeptikal

    (no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth

    不同意。

    Revisionist zionists used terror to steal other people’s land and manipulated other governments to be complicit in the theft — before turning on those other governments and kicking them out.

    Hitler Youth did not use terror, they used discipline. Their goal was not stealing other people’s land but rather defending their own.

    Zionist Jews were/are ideologically driven by a contrived supremacist narrative cynically linked to Hebrew scripture that granted them ‘title’ to another people’s land, and the right to take it by force and deceit.

    As Unz readers know (or should be aware by now), the opening shot of WWII was fired only after all other means of defending Germans who were being abused in territory that Versailles sliced off of Germany and gave to Poland: NS attempted to negotiate if not return of that territory, then at least transit through the region, and protection for German-Speaking citizens of now-Poland. This scenario is nothing like what Jews were attempting in Palestine.

    Furthermore, and ironically, Germans in the NS era are roundly denounced as antisemites for seeking to amplify a Christian creed from which Hebrew scripture influence is extracted (see The Aryan Jesus:
    Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany , http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8820.html ) In other words, German Christians in Germany attempted to define their own Christian beliefs in a way that distinguished them from Jews.

    It seems that due to a hasbaratic process that magnifies Jewish interpretations and silences all alternative information, it’s quite difficult to find information about Walter Grundmann and the Christian movement he led; Susannah Heschel’s work sucks all the oxygen out of research into Grundmann’s movement, the Institute for the Study and Eradication of Jewish Influence on German Religious Life.

    PS Jewish terrorists did not operate only in Palestine: “The Ritchie Boys” were German Jews who became members of US military forces and were deployed back to Germany to subvert, spy upon, and carry out sabotage on Germany. They were among those who gathered the tons of German documents now in US archives; Ritchie Boys were key participants in Nuremberg prosecutions — including torture, falsification of documents & witnesses, etc.

  109. Avery 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    {希特勒 Youth did not use terror, they used discipline. Their goal was not stealing other people’s land but rather defending their own.}

    你不是认真的吧?

    What were Hitler’s troops doing in Stalingrad*?
    Defending their own?

    And of course Hitler was defending his own when he invaded USSR and killed millions of Slavic civilians,
    And of course there was no such thing as Lebensraum。

    Hitler _would_ have been defending his own if he had stayed in Germany and had satisfied himself with the legitimate claim to German populated Sudetenland.

    About those Hitler youth: after the Red Army ground up 80% of invading Wehrmacht and rolled into Berlin, only Hitlerjugend and senior citizens were left to defend the 1,000 year Reich of the alleged Master Race against thems 下人 东方

    Not my place to give advice to Germans, but I’ll do it anyway:
    (have great admiration for German people and German civilization, save for the Nazi gang).
    Instead of venerating Hitler and his delusional gang, you guys need to treat him like dirt.
    He is the worst thing that could have happened to the highly civilized German people.
    Because of what Hitler did, Germans today are thoroughly neutered people and Germany today is a Neocon occupied country being slowly but relentlessly Islamized.
    How long before Germans cease to exit as a distinct ethnos?

    And you Germans are still nostalgic for Hitler and defend him?
    希特勒!
    Zeig Heil!

    _____________
    * btw: bonus question; how many klicks is Berlin from Stalingrad (Volgograd today), would you know?

  110. Mulegino1 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    When so called “terrorist” tactics are employed, it all depends upon the context in which they occur.

    When the Zionists decapitated British soldiers, and slaughtered Arab women and children in Palestine they were “Zionist pioneers” and “Freedom fighters.” When the Soviet partisans or the French Maquis murdered, tortured and mutilated members of the Axis forces, they were hailed as patriotic heroes. When the right type of Wahhabi monsters cut off the heads of Christians, Shiites and Allawites (not to mention ordinary Sunnis) they are “moderate rebels.” When the Chief Rabbi of the Sephardim declares non-Jews to be mere beasts of burdens and animals, he is applauded.

    On the other hand, the Einsatzgruppen on the Eastern Front who execute prisoners as a reprisal for partisan attacks are labelled as “mass murderers.” When Hezbollah drives the IDF from Lebanese soil, it is labelled as a “terrorist organization.” When Assad acts to defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria, he is called a dictator.

    We in the west live in a very kosher world.

  111. Mulegino1 说:
    @Avery

    What were the soldiers of the Wehrmacht doing in Stalingrad? It is called defending Europa. It started in June of 1941, when Germany and its allies delivered a preemptive strike against massive Soviet formations staging for an invasion of Europe along the western frontiers of the Soviet Union. In other words, the second greatest invasion force in history preempted the greatest. But that is old news. It is time to let the Russians to celebrate their “Great Patriotic War” in peace and leave them be. Eastern Europe and the Balkans suffered horribly during the great conflict of 1939-1945, but they emerged with their soul intact. On the other hand, Western and Central Europe, which also suffered horribly, did not. They handed over their European culture, heritage and soul for a pot of Zionist-Yankee porridge, for which they are currently suffering the pains of damnation.

    • 回复: @Rurik
    , @MarkinLA
    , @Anon
  112. Rurik 说:
    @Mulegino1

    It is time to let the Russians to celebrate their “Great Patriotic War” in peace and leave them be.

    no, we can’t because it’s their celebrating and chest-thumping that is causing alarm in Eastern Europe, and opening the door to the Fiend/Bolshevik/Zio-war pigs/International Banksters … to do it all over again.

    Eastern Europe and the Balkans suffered horribly during the great conflict of 1939-1945,

    but more to the point they suffered after the war was over as Stalin’s agenda became known to the world once and for all, and when he gobbled up Eastern Europe and obviously wanted it all, Germany most of all, it became OBVIOUS that Hitler and the Nazis were right all along, and that Stalin and the Bolsheviks were hell bent in global domination. Duh

    that Eastern Europe still has its nads intact, is only because ((they’re)) over here (in the West) now, and doing what they do- destroying culture and replacing spirituality with sewage and leading their armies…

    if for no other reason than seeing what France and Sweden and England have become, and more to the point, where they’re going! – that’s all the motivation anyone should need to know that Hitler had a point!

  113. Sam Shama 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “Grundmann’s movement”, “Aryan Jesus”, “Jewish Influence in German Religious Life”, and wait, I am struck especially, by this priceless howler, “a Christian creed from which Hebrew scripture influence is 提取 =

    “Hitler Youth did not use terror, they used discipline. Their goal was not stealing other people’s land but rather defending their own.”

    No, of course, they didn’t. They used Love and poetry; with eyes firmly fixed on the future, the occasional Messerschmitt and Panzer, they waltzed in peace into Austria, Sudetenland, Belgium, ………I forget; can you remind me?

    I admire your indefatigable industry to try your hand at comedy. Carry on. Beware though, humourist, unrequited comics are known to end up as bitter old men.

    • 巨魔: SolontoCroesus
  114. MarkinLA 说:
    @F. G. Sanford

    550 or 800 isn’t anywhere close to a constant burning flame. At 800 it is still cycling on and off.

  115. MarkinLA 说:
    @dcite

    There is plenty of material ejected sideways as the building comes down. Maybe you really didn’t look too hard at the video. Of course, most of it comes straight down – that is what gravity does. It only ejects sideways because it hits something hard and bounces which imparts a spin.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
    , @dcite
  116. MarkinLA 说:
    @Alden

    It still cycles on and off to maintain 800 degrees. If it didn’t it would have temperatures close to those of a kiln. Well it wouldn’t get that hot because your house would be on fire long before that.

  117. MarkinLA 说:
    @Mulegino1

    如果德国是在保卫欧洲,那么它本可以通过简单地与苏联边境的所有国家结成联盟来取得更大的成功,德国为首。 德国在一个挖好的位置上的军事技术优势可以抵挡住红军的任何入侵。

    • 回复: @Avery
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  118. Skeptikal 说:
    @Avery

    When I said:
    no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth

    I didn’t mean that all youth groups are the same in their aims or activities.
    I merely meant that when I learned of the Betar organization I was struck by the fact that a number of political parties in approximately the same period created youth organizations that channeled the zeal and energy and self-conviction that is typical of adolescents into carrying out the program of a state party. One could also cite the Red Guards in this context.

    I am half German myself and I do feel that the NS episode, while still far from fully understood in the sense of how Hitler was used by outside powers, in its result created a situation where people who understand nothing of German history and culture feel entitled to reflexively dump on Germans and Germany. Especially if they (the dumpers) are American Jews. Even though, obviously, a lot of Germans were Jewish. I also feel that Merkel was nuts to open the borders to all migrants. It is pretty ironic because the German govt does not recognize many people whose parents were forced to flee the country in the thirties as German, but hundreds of thousands of migrants are being welcomed and helped to establish new lives in Germany. But that is a whole nother story.

    • 回复: @RobinG
    , @Authenticjazzman
  119. Skeptikal 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Darn it, I SAID . . .
    (no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, **youth organizations connected to a political party*I)
    那你怎么了
    Just read and quote the whole sentence, not a fragment, before you go off on a tear defending the Hitler Youth because they didn’t steal land in Palestine. I didn’t say that they did. I said that these groups had the fanaticism of youth.
    真是的

    • 回复: @SolontoCroesus
  120. Skeptikal 说:
    @Avery

    “And you Germans are still nostalgic for Hitler and defend him?”
    Where are you getting this????
    Whenever Hitler enters the conversation, rationality and logic seem to fly out the door.
    BTW Hitler was not German.
    真是的

    • 回复: @Avery
    , @Skeptikal
  121. Sparkon 说:
    @MarkinLA

    It only ejects sideways because it hits something hard and bounces which imparts a spin.

    This is fascinating what you can learn at 乌兹网: most of the building “comes straight down,” you say, but some of it bounces on out of there with a spin, when it hit something hard.

    Indeed, that is some powerful spin, not that you ignored dcite’s good points to raise your own flimsy ones, or anything, but you are entirely free, of course to flesh this all out for us, so we may see how it works.

    • 回复: @MarkinLA
  122. RobinG 说:
    @Skeptikal

    About the Awans as possible cutouts –

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/pakistans-military-cooperation-with-israel/
    “During the last three decades, Israel and Pakistan had a constructive rapprochement to coordinate their stances on the Afghan issue and exchange military information. There was a turning point in the country’s foreign policy, when Pakistan worked closely with Israel…”

    That is, if the whole thing doesn’t peter out as minor financial crime.

  123. annamaria 说:
    @exiled off mainstreet

    Here is an excellent report, expert and measured, on the stupid and fast-melting Russiangate. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-10/new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-year’s-dnc-hack

    “On the evening of July 5, 2016, 1,976 megabytes of data were downloaded from the DNC’s server. The operation took 87 seconds. This yields a transfer rate of 22.7 megabytes per second.
    These statistics are matters of record and essential to disproving the hack theory. No Internet service provider, such as a hacker would have had to use in mid-2016, was capable of downloading data at this speed. Compounding this contradiction, Guccifer claimed to have run his hack from Romania, which, for numerous reasons technically called delivery overheads, would slow down the speed of a hack even further from maximum achievable speeds.
    In addition, there is the adulteration of the documents Guccifer 2.0 posted on June 15, when he made his first appearance. This came to light when researchers penetrated what Folden calls Guccifer’s top layer of metadata and analyzed what was in the layers beneath. They found that the first five files Guccifer made public had each been run, via ordinary cut-and-paste, through a single template that effectively immersed them in what could plausibly be cast as Russian fingerprints. They were not: The Russian markings were artificially inserted prior to posting. “It’s clear,” another forensics investigator self-identified as HET, wrote in a report on this question, “that metadata was deliberately altered and documents were deliberately pasted into a Russianified [W]ord document with Russian language settings and style headings.”
    Behind the ICA lie other indefensible realities. The FBI has never examined the DNC’s computer servers—an omission that is beyond preposterous. It has instead relied on the reports produced by Crowdstrike, a firm that drips with conflicting interests well beyond the fact that it is in the DNC’s employ. Dmitri Alperovitch, its co-founder and chief technology officer, is on the record as vigorously anti-Russian. He is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, which suffers the same prejudice. Problems such as this are many.”

    Who has been conducting the forensics: “The chief researchers active on the DNC case are four: William Binney, formerly the NSA’s technical director for world geopolitical and military analysis and designer of many agency programs now in use; Kirk Wiebe, formerly a senior analyst at the NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center; Edward Loomis, formerly technical director in the NSA’s Office of Signal Processing; and Ray McGovern, an intelligence analyst for nearly three decades and formerly chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch. Most of these men have decades of experience in matters concerning Russian intelligence and the related technologies.” No ziocons. Quelle surprise!

    Well, a group of loyal Americans with the highest expertise in techs on one side and an opportunistic Jewish Russophobe on the other. Alperovitch joins Debby and her brother Mr. Wasserman, who has been also in charge of the investigation into the murder of Seth Righ, as a main suspect in the slanderous and highly dangerous Russiangate. Other brainless and Israel-minded Democrats are with Debby for now.

    Seth Rich (January 3, 1989 – July 10, 2016) was an American employee for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) who was fatally shot in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington, D.C. His murder is unsolved. Debby’ brother Mr. Wasserman has been in charge of the stalled investigation.

  124. Avery 说:
    @Skeptikal

    {你从哪里得到这个????}

    在讨论 WW2 时,我通过阅读评论 @unz 得到了这一点。
    多年来和许多不同的线程。
    There are several posters, who I assume to be of German descent or sympathizers of Nazis/Hitler, who post comments defending Hitler’s invasion of USSR.
    您可以在此线程中看到一个:[Mulegino1]。

    {国防军的士兵在斯大林格勒做什么? 它被称为保卫欧罗巴。 它始于 1941 年 XNUMX 月,当时德国及其盟国对准备入侵苏联西部边境的欧洲的大规模苏联编队进行了先发制人的打击。}

    (这是一个虚假的借口,已被许多历史学家揭穿,特别是美国军事历史学家大卫·格兰茨 (David M. Glantz)。)

    阅读海报 [MarkinLA] 回复 #121,告诉我们海报 [Mulegino1] 是不是对希特勒的怀旧。

    是的,希特勒不是德裔德国人:他是奥地利人,是日耳曼民族。
    Aaaand…..80 million German-Germans followed and obeyed him: all the way to the Gates of Hell.
    Napoleon was not French: he was Corsican, but we don’t say Corsica invaded e.g. Russia: France and the Grande Arme did.

    Oh,almost forgot: “Jeeze Lousie”.
    所以,那里。

  125. Avery 说:
    @MarkinLA

    {German military technological superiority in a dug in position would have withstood any Red Army invasion}

    没错。

    This was proven by actual events in WW2.
    After the massive defeat at Stalingrad, when the strategic initiative shifted to the Red Army, and Wehrmacht started their long retreat back to Berlin, they still fought doggedly.

    Even with about 80% of their best and toughest men, and ~80% of their hardware lost on the Eastern front, Wehrmacht withdrew in good fighting order from USSR territory and managed to give a bloody nose to the pursuing Red Army on more than one occasion.

    No WW2 army would be able to break through an intact Wehrmacht if they dug in and defended Germany. They were so good, that they conquered all of Europe in a few months and reached all the way to the Volga river, about 3,000 klicks from Berlin.

    France, a major European military power, which had more and better artillery and tanks than Germany, lasted less than 2 months,

  126. Excal 说:

    So what’s the big deal? They sound like pretty typical US corporate IT people to me.

  127. @Skeptikal

    ” Where people who understand nothing of German history and culture feel entitled to dump on Germans and Germany”

    Okay myself, a Michigan born and raised and from a german standpoint : redneck hillbilly who spent forty years in Germany, married three German women , a “von”, a medical doctor, and a teacher (Gymnasium Lehrerin now retired) , I would wager to say that many Americans are aware of the one central fact pertaining to German culture and that being that the Germans are the most overbearing obnoxious know-it-all :

    BESSERWISSER

    on this insane planet.

    They simply cannot keep their mouths shut regarding the internal politics of other nations and their incessant critique’ of US conditions such as the madness regarding the election of DT has reached the state of manic obcession.

    They do not know wtf they are blathering about with such absurd claims as : the USA has no social systems or social assistance programs.

    And then there is their lunatic hyping of themselves as Poets and thinkers : “Dichter und Denker”, when fact is that during the enlightenment the only ” Dichter und Denker” in the “Fürstentümer” were the court mentored Philosophers, composers, etc, the German folk itself having consisted of illiterate farmers, mine workers etc.

    One could go on and on with the problems surrounding this most neurotic folk and nation, so let it be said : They are their one worst enemies.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet , and pro Jazz musician

    • 回复: @Sam Shama
    , @Skeptikal
    , @MEexpert
  128. @Ronald Thomas West

    A link to Hersh’s recording was on Unz’s homepage for a week.

    • 回复: @Ronald Thomas West
  129. Sam Shama 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Germans are the most overbearing obnoxious know-it-all :

    BESSERWISSER

    on this insane planet.

    LOL. Exceeded on by Jews 🙂

  130. Skeptikal 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Sorry you had such bad luck with your marriages
    It is true that a lot of Germans are the Besserwisser types.
    Especially Prussians . . .
    But as for the rest of your bill of particulars,
    1. What I said, and
    2. Sorry you had such bad luck in your marriages. Wonder why you kept marrying Germans!!!

  131. Skeptikal 说:
    @Skeptikal

    Excuse me, Avery.
    I am not part of “And you Germans are still nostalgic for Hitler and defend him.”
    So, give it a rest.

  132. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Interesting. So you concede that the Einsatzgruppen executed prisoners in reprisals. That’s encouraging. Who were these prisoners? Were they soldiers or civilians or some mix? Were they limited in age? What number of Soviet people were the Einsatzgruppen happy to execute in response to a partisan attack?

  133. MarkinLA 说:
    @Sparkon

    What was dcite’s “good” point, that some people smarter than him believed the big conspiracy? We have plenty of bullshit “science” in the social sciences. All these “better minds than mine” that exist in those places have given us most of our really stupid social policies.

    You do realize that the top portion of the building is coming down and it does hit a part of the building still intact or are you going to disbelieve that? When I say bounces – everything that lands on something else has some bounce even if it is microscopic.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  134. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @MarkinLA

    This is such a basic point that it’s just astounding to me that anyone bothers to argue otherwise. The Twin Towers were subjected to a severe impact and a major fire. They weren’t built to withstand something like that.

    And yes, they were built to withstand impact from a plane, but not a plane going at top speed and the expectation was that 50% it would be a plane nearly out of fuel and on its way to land to LaGuardia, Newark, or Kennedy.

  135. Osten 说:

    Besserwisser?
    Nein, Besserpinkler!

  136. @Anon

    Far less than the 2M commonly cited.

    • 回复: @Anon
  137. @Anon

    Therefore the official account should be uncritically accepted without questioning?

    • 回复: @Anon
  138. MEexpert 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Okay myself, a Michigan born and raised and from a german standpoint : redneck hillbilly who spent forty years in Germany, married three German women , a “von”, a medical doctor, and a teacher (Gymnasium Lehrerin now retired) ,

    Couldn’t hold to your women.

    It is because of all that “FAKE JAZZ.”

    • 回复: @Authenticjazzman
  139. @Seamus Padraig

    Good to know, thanks. But it should still be there – and someone should be writing about it –

  140. Sparkon 说:
    @MarkinLA

    You do realize that the top portion of the building is coming down and it does hit a part of the building still intact or are you going to disbelieve that?

    Yes, I do not believe it.

    In the photo, the top 30-some floors of the south tower are still intact, but they have disassociated themselves from the rest of the building, and have been rotated in relationship to it.

    For this to happen, the building’s central core must have been severed, and some additional kicker force applied to it above the break, so that the central core remaining in the top portion is out of alignment with the central core in the remainder of the structure.

    It is said that each of the towers weighed 500,000 tons, while a fully fueled 767-200’s max gross take-off weight was 157 tons.

    Because the WTC towers’ construction was lighter toward the top, and much more massive toward the ground, there is no way that the lighter upper floors could possibly crush the much stronger lower floors.

    The method of construction makes it difficult to calculate the weight of that ~30-floor segment of WTC 2, except to say it is about 25% of the building’s height, and must have weighed more than 50,000 but less than 125,000 tons.

    Therefore, some very powerful force had to be applied to the top portion of the building seen tilting over in the photograph to get the structure into that position, and in the absence of some counter-force to stop it, the rotation should have continued.

    Do you think that the 157 ton airplane — even at the alleged 500 mph — had enough energy to sever the building’s central core, and provide the rotational force to top 30 floors, after using a lot of energy to slice through the building’s cage-like steel box column exterior?

    I don’t think the airplane could do that.

    It is certainly possible that powerful charges could sever the central core of the twin towers in as many places as desired, with additional kicker charges to nudge these sections aside so that the entire structure falls into its own footprint, but only a relatively slight displacement of the central core would be necessary to ensure that result, while the photo depicts a much more radical displacement of the building’s entire top, which would have required a much more powerful — but entirely unnecessary — charge.

    Of course it is conceivable that these images are fake, generated with CGI. Certainly, the airplane videos must be.

    • 回复: @dcite
    , @MarkinLA
  141. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    It does not matter, in a legal sense, who they were, since reprisal executions of hostages in response to illegal partisan activity were not against the Hague Convention in force at the time. Insofar as the execution of “children” goes, no doubt a lot of minors were shot. This is not shocking, since many so called “children” were actively engaged in partisan activity. We are not talking about toddlers or very small children, we are talking about adolescents. In any case, if the Germans were taken to task for the execution of so called “children”, why were the Allies never taken to task for the mass incineration of men, women and children in the horrendous area bombing campaigns, which DELIBERATELY, and with malice aforethought, targeted them? The answer is simple: the Allies won and the Axis lost, the victors write the (recently post hoc) history books and the vanquished are subject to egregious double standards of so called ” justice. ”

  142. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    You obviously do not understand the principles of ballistics or the Third Law of motion, which states that, for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore the alleged plane hitting the skyscraper framed with structural steel at 500 plus mph is no different than the steel framed skyscraper hitting the plane at 500 mph.

    Therefore, if you accept the official story, you must believe that what is an essence a hollow aluminum tube, and the fragile aluminum wings (whose tips are so delicate they cannot even carry fuel) can penetrate 1/2″ of structural steel (1/4″ plus 1/4″ thick at the alleged point of impact) which is what the box column peripheral columns were composed of at that height. Anyone who knows anything about ballistics knows that this is total b.s. To illustrate this, consider an armor piercing round capable of penetrating 1/2″ of steel plating – say a 7.56 x54R. It has a hardened, sharp tip, a hardened alloy jacket and a solid steel core. Compare this to the nose and fuselage of a Boeing 767, which can be easily damaged by colliding with birds in flight, birds, which to my knowledge, are not composed of anything like structural steel. The official legend is merely a ridiculous fairy tale to present to lobotomized infotainment consumers who are absorbed in sports and entertainment and who never ask questions about anything important.

    • 回复: @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @MarkinLA
  143. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    It does not matter, in a legal sense, who they were, since reprisal executions of hostages in response to illegal partisan activity were not against the Hague Convention in force at the time.

    It does matter, because if the partisans seized were predominantly or entirely Jewish, predominantly or entirely non-military, and composed of a population including women, children, and the elderly, then it isn’t a reprisal anymore.

    Insofar as the execution of “children” goes, no doubt a lot of minors were shot. This is not shocking, since many so called “children” were actively engaged in partisan activity. We are not talking about toddlers or very small children, we are talking about adolescents.

    So between August 18 and 22, 1941, Einsatzgruppe A conducted operations in Raseiniai and according to their own records, they killed 466, 440 women, and 1,020 children. This is from the group’s own report. You would need to explain why the ratio of men to women is pretty much 1 and why the ratio of children to parents is closer to 2:1, which would be the average number of children.

    In any case, if the Germans were taken to task for the execution of so called “children…”

    Don’t change the topic.

  144. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    And your qualifications to give opinions about this is based on what? A half-hour of internet research?

  145. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    By the way, the sum total of physics training I’ve had is a year of physics in high school, some thirty years ago. But I do know enough to remember the core equation at the basis of physics, which is

    f = m * a

    where f=force, m=mass, and a=acceleration.

    So it absolutely freaking matter which body is in motion and which isn’t when a collision happens.

    • 回复: @Wizard of Oz
  146. @Skeptikal

    imo Zionism was a far greater and obviously longer-lasting evil than National Socialism.

    I also consider knee-jerk comparisons to Hitler/Nazees where H & Nazees are the definition of evil to be childish, simplistic, and counterproductive.

    Employing such rhetoric does the fiend’s work for it.

    PS the zionists who infiltrated Germany, raised havoc in Palestine and drove out the legitimate owners of that place were not teenagers sowing their oats, they were and still are terrorists.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
    , @Mulegino1
    , @Skeptikal
  147. Mulegino1 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Yes, as is proved by the collision of a semi truck with a concrete wall. Since the semi-truck is in motion and the concrete wall is at rest, the semi-truck will simply obliterate the wall and pass through unscathed. Good grief! Have you ever seen what a mere collision with a bird in flight at cruising speed can do to the nose or fuselage of a 767? Do you seriously believe that the gigantic peripheral columns made of structural steel and designed to withstand hurricane winds would simply give way to a hollow aluminum tube? Why don’t the ammunition manufacturers make armor piercing ammunition with hollow aluminum bullets, since they would be much lighter and have a greater velocity with respect to their target?

    • 回复: @Anon
    , @MarkinLA
  148. Mulegino1 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    The murder of over 400,000 human beings would have required enormous mass graves with over 40 times the surface area of those at Katyn. Where are these mass graves located? Only a fool could believe in these falsified “Einsatzgruppen Reports” with their grossly exaggerated claims.

    How were these mass executions carried out- with atomic bombs or area bombing of massed prisoners in fields? Do you realize the absolute impossibility of a few thousand Einsatzgruppen personnel herding or gathering 400,000 people like cattle and murdering them? What you describe is a logistical impossibility, more fit for a Gulliver’s Travels like fantasy than for a realistic military operation.

    Marshal Von Manstein’s attorney, Paget, made mincemeat of these utterly ridiculous claims in the trial of the Marshal. They are no more credible than the use of atomic bombs to kill Jews en masse (claimed by Justice Robert Jackson at the Nuremberg IMT), the “steam chamber” at Treblinka II or the “electrified floor” at Belzec. Those who believe this nonsense must have been victims of the so called “pedal driven brain bashing machine”, also claimed at the IMT.

  149. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Because force requires both mass and acceleration.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
    , @annamaria
  150. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Gee, I was asking about a single Lithuanian town. I figured we could resolve that one and move on from there.

    Or you could just admit that you think that it was fine for the Nazis to shoot a whole village of innocent Jewish people and cut out the middle man. After all, you do have Codreanu for your Disqus avatar.

    你的选择。

  151. @Mulegino1

    Are you referring to the estimate made by Reynouard and Kollerstrom, based on the actual Einsatzgruppen reports and not the obviously exaggerated summaries sent to Berlin? (The 400K number.)

    Regardless, it is clear from these reports that these shootings (justifiable or not) always took place in the context of anti-partisan actions and specific acts against German forces. I.e., they were driven by the exigencies of war on the eastern front, and NOT some master “extermination plan”.

  152. Mulegino1 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Do you have any idea of the logistical impossibility of a few thousand troops armed mainly with small arms executing 400000 people over the period of a few days? Not even the deadliest battles of the First World War- which involved massed troop formations of tens of thousands of men charging fortified trenches defended by light machine guns- over open ground- accounted for such an enormous amount of casualties in such a short time. Yet we are led to believe that a few thousand Einsatzgruppen troops armed with small arms, operating over an area as big as the US west of the Rockies, were able to achieve these miracles of homicide simply because- well it was the “Holocaust!”

    Just answer these questions:

    Where were the exact places of execution?

    How were the alleged victims transported to the areas of execution? The Wehrmacht was 80% horse driven. It is hard to envision the Germans diverting precious trucks for this purpose with a war raging just to the east.

    Where are the bodies buried?

    If you claim that the bodies were originally buried, then dug up and cremated on open air pyres, then state specific locations and describe the methods, including the massive excavations and disposal of earth which would have been necessary to bury and dispose of so many bodies- not to mention the massive amounts of dried, cured, firewood necessary for such a thing.

  153. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    Yes. And? There is an equal- and opposite- reaction. Which is why, when a semi truck crashes into a concrete wall at 70 mph, it does not effortlessly break the wall and pass through it. Generally, the truck loses, even though the wall is at rest. And a light, mostly hollow 767 fuselage is no semi-truck.

  154. Skeptikal 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “were not teenagers sowing their oats” —this comes from you, not from me.
    Typical straw man type of argument.
    Or, in this case, oat boy

  155. Skeptikal 说:
    @Mulegino1

    The Einsatzgruppen went from village to village.
    Not necessary to “herd” thousands of people
    Just a few hundred at a time. ‘I don’t think you really know much about this, in your eagerness to defend Einsatzgruppen.

  156. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Really? The Jäger report lists more than 100 mass shootings. You want to tell me there were 100+ partisan incidents in Lithuania in six months time with virtually no Soviet presence and a pro-Nazi population?

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  157. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I don’t think anyone is claiming two million. Also, I don’t think a number as low as 400k is taking into account anything past December 1941

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  158. @Mulegino1

    Agreed, the official numbers are clearly fantastical, but there is little doubt that mass shootings took place. What do you make of Reynouard’s work on this?

    https://archive.org/details/VincentReynouardLesEinsatzgruppenPartie4JugesEtHistoriensPrisEnFlagrantDelitDeMensonges

  159. @Mulegino1

    And please, I greatly admire your posts here and elsewhere, but no one is claiming 400K were killed in a matter of days. That number is for the entire period of operation. This does not help legitimate revisionism.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  160. @Anon

    Hilberg does. At any rate the actual official number tends to be quite fluid, whatever relative component is needed to get to the magical total number of 6M.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
    , @Anon
    , @Skeptikal
  161. Mulegino1 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Sorry about that, I was replying to Anon who listed the figures wrong. He listed 446,600 or so women and 1,200 children or something like that. He may have meant to write 446 women which would be tenable. The anti-partisan warfare was vicious, but the Germans never behaved any worse- and considerably better- than the Soviets and the western Allies when it came to the treatment of the civilian population.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  162. @Mulegino1

    No worries, I sort of assumed you were replying to his typo.

    What you say here is to me the main point: many German actions were undoubtedly war crimes, but they took place in the context of a war they neither wanted nor were prepared to wage. What happened to the Jews in WW2 is comparable to what happened to the Armenians in WW1: a great national tragedy, but hardly “heavens darkening” stuff non-Jews must eternally atone for. (One difference of course being, there were no elite Armenians in the halls of power in the West agitating for war, ordinary Jews paid a huge price for these mens’ actions.)

  163. Mulegino1 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    There is no doubt that the war on the Eastern Front became increasingly brutal and that the Axis forces committed excesses and a certain number of atrocities. However- are there any as deliberately vicious –
    (discounting the excesses of the Red Army) to compare with those committed by, say, the French Moroccan troops under the Free French General Juin who were given free reign to rape the women in the villages surrounding Monte Cassino? According to most accounts, the western Allied occupiers behaved much worse than the soldiers of the Wehrmacht in France, Italy, Belgium, etc.

    • 回复: @Anon
  164. It should also be said: the Anglo-American treatment of non-combatants was far, far worse than anything the Germans could realistically be accused of, and unlike the Soviets they had absolutely no cause for vengefulness nor ameliorating context. The U.K. and US were the true villains of the war.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  165. Avery 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    {It’s time for your meds.}

    Another highly original diagnosis by our old friend Dr. Bovine, M.D.
    It’s time for you to go back into the barn and to continue chewing your daily allotment of hay.

    哞。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  166. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Don’t waste my time with CODOH links. Go big or go home

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  167. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    To repeat, with correction:

    So between August 18 and 22, 1941, Einsatzgruppe A conducted operations in Raseiniai and according to their own records, they killed 466 men, 440 women, and 1,020 children. This is from the group’s own report. You would need to explain why the ratio of men to women is pretty much 1 and why the ratio of children to parents is closer to 2:1, which would be the average number of children.

    Once we’re done with this town, we can go to the next. We can do all 100 if you like and then move onto Latvia.

    Or you can just admit that it’s ok with you that the Nazis killed innocent Jews. It’s you with Codreanu as your Disqus avatar.

    你的来电。

  168. @Avery

    Some people just won’t accept sound medical advice, apparently.

    • 回复: @Avery
  169. Avery 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    {Some people…..}

    It would be highly irregular for to take any kind of advice from a ruminant such as you, Dr. Bovine, M.D.

  170. @MEexpert

    ” Couldn’t hold your women”

    ” It is because of all that FAKE JAZZ”

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    How witty and original. You missed your calling as a stand up comic

    I held on to the last one and she is the best of all , so things worked out just right.

    自 1973 年以来,Authenticjazzman “Mensa”协会成员,空降合格的美国陆军兽医和职业爵士音乐家。

  171. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    If you had posted correct numbers in the first place, I would indeed have conceded that sporadic reprisal massacres of this magnitude did take place. Again, context is of extreme importance.
    There was a horrendous struggle going on in the east and the partisans started it with their illegal atrocities against the Axis troops, so reprisals were taken against the civilian population. Women and adolescents were also involved in partisan activity, and it is most likely that most males of military age were already at the front, so the remaining civilian population in the towns would consist of women and children, including minors. There is also no question that Jews supported such activity, just as they supported the Bolshevik tyranny which their coreligionists imposed upon the people of these regions, which led to the spontaneous “pogroms” in the Baltic countries during the German advance. The Germans did not conduct, nor in most cases, even encourage such actions; their only crime was standing aside and letting them take place.

    We know with absolute certitude that the Soviets committed far worse atrocities than anything realistically imputed to the Axis (in the European theater). And we also know that it was the British- and not the Germans- who began the policy of deliberately targeting the civilian population of Europe. The western Allies killed far more French and Italian civilians with their aerial bombing; they committed more rapes, stole and looted far more. Where is the moral outrage at these “holocausts”?

    The behavior of German troops in the occupied France was, from all accounts, quite exemplary, especially compared to that of their Allied opponents.

    Of course, when the discipline of history is fraught with such egregious double standards and duplicity, it becomes useless.

  172. Mulegino1 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    They were indeed. Germany was demonized for responding forcefully to Polish aggression, bellicosity and intransigence – which included total mobilization of the Polish armed forces before the Germans mobilized their own, as well as outright calls for war and the Polish occupation of Berlin. In response, England and France declared war on Germany for its war with (not on) Poland, yet completely ignored the Soviet invasion of Poland which occurred a few weeks later (not to mention the subsequent Soviet invasion of Finland, and the forced annexation of the Baltic states).

    The Anglo-Americans were never called to account for invading and wrecking most of Western Europe and killing (and raping and looting) many more innocent civilians in the process than the Germans were ever accused of. But that was “liberation.”

    • 回复: @Anon
    , @Authenticjazzman
  173. dcite 说:
    @MarkinLA

    Maybe you really didn’t look too hard at the video.

    OK. I’ll take a harder look-see. I guess we have to trust nobody did a C.D. Jackson on it. Nevertheless, is amazing in these Change-the-Game disaster events with political implications, that things fall-in-place so well. They happen after breakfast or lunch, and yet full bios of the perps are available for the evening news; passports drop like gentle rain from blazing infernos above, blessing those that find with such quick solutions to what could have been an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
    Several of the “hijackers” were truly shocked (not “shocked! shocked!”) by their notoriety, as they were still alive and well in Saudi Arabia and they sued the FBI. One young man could not fly at all and had lost his passport in Colorado.
    I prefer Instant Karma to Imagine but in another observation, Lennon was spot on: mostly insane people run the world. The most successful just hide it better than Ms. Debbie W-S.

  174. @Anon

    A sufficient response is that ugly happen in war and the eastern front was particularly ugly. Even if the account of this event is accurate, I cannot understand why it is more noteworthy than the TENS of thousands of civilians killed by the Americans (safely high above the ground) at places like Dresden or Nagasaki.

    But your proposal is simply pointless, because you provide absolutely no context. As Reynouard and Verbeke these actions, however excessive, took place in the course of anti-partisan activities, which were accordingly noted. For example, here

    http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/situationreport88.html

    we see that acts were investigated and individuals cleared, including asylum inmates who posed a general threat to public health. (There was a war going on, after all.). This hardly sounds like a grand extermination plan, although it is undoubtedly unpleasant stuff (as war always is).

    Raseinai is merely noted in that link, so I cannot comment there, but in generally you propose a rather silly game.

  175. @Anon

    No, I believe he does say 2M. Perhaps you are nitpicking over the Einzatgruppen proper or some other German police group?

    • 回复: @Anon
  176. dcite 说:
    @Sparkon

    Yes, it is impossible for a building that size to be totally dustified in a few minutes by one or two planes. Totally nonsense. The true perps of this event screwed up big-time. Only the treasonous MSM saved their hides, as it continues to do. An employee of 20 years in the building, Wm. Rodriguez, heard explosions before the planes hit. He was interviewed for hours by the commission “studying” the event, and his testimony did not appear in the final report. Same sort of thing as happened with the Warren Commission. They always use the same M.O. with varying degrees of success depending on the media and the courage and determination of the true investigators.
    Anyone who dismisses many years of serious research and warranted questions as “conspiracy theory” immediately loses any credibility. “Conspiracy theory” was a term invented by the CIA after the JFK assassination in response to questioning the absurd Warren Commission headed by, Allen Dulles, an expert in psychological warfare and sworn enemy of the man whose murder he was supposed to be investigating. If someone is satisfied with the conclusions of Official Government Reports, I wouldn’t trust them to investigator the death of my cat. And the conspiracy “theorists” (read facts) are the crazy ones? The media has made us think stupidly and insanely with huge holes in the final product, assuming we all have holes in our heads. I think it was who Orwell who said the lies of the media would be mostly lies of omission. How very prescient.

    • 回复: @annamaria
  177. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    I’m curious to know why you can’t seem to stay on topic. I’m talking about one town. You claim that this was a reprisal. OK, great: Tell me what the specific partisan activity was that caused this to occur. When responding, bear in mind that this event occurred a scare three months into Barbarossa, that the Red Army had overwhelmingly fled in the face of the invasion, and that the native population was overwhelmingly pro-German.

    Try this time to remain limited to this town and to German crimes against Jews. You and I are both aware of the context.

    Or you can just admit that killing of a whole town of innocent people is ok with you provided they’re Jews, Mr. “I have Codreanu as my avatar.” The choice remains yours.

    感谢在前进。

  178. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Turns out we’re both wrong. Hilberg puts open air shootings in the USSR by all perpetrators at 1.3 million.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  179. @Anon

    The Soviets committed war crimes and resorted to (illegal) partisan warfare from the very beginning of Barbarossa, the fact that these particular shootings took place three months into the war is irrelevant.

    And don’t be asinine, no one is “ok” with these kinds of things. Rational people can try to understand the overall context of historical events without having to resort to emotionalism, religious conviction, etc.

    • 回复: @Anon
    , @MarkinLA
  180. @Anon

    Fair enough, but other sources put the number at 2M. As I said, it’s somewhat fluid (not to mention unrealistic), only the 6M number appears engraved in stone.

  181. @Avery

    1. For those here who suffer from HDSⒸ [Hitler Derangement Syndrome]: contemplate for a few minutes a pithy piece posted by Pat Lang a month ago: “Analysis is not advocacy.” Those who can learn and grow from such an insight, will.

    2. re the extended/distended/distorted discussion re a comparison of Revisionist zionists and Hitler Youth:

    ” Ben-Gorian , Begin, Sharon, and Shamir were all terrorists. ”
    Yes, also Moshe Arens–all of the top guys. Some of them were in the Revisionist Zionist youth group Betar, inspired by Jabotinksy, who was their hero. Revisionist Zionism was not religious. The impetus for the Jewish state *用过的* the religion as a pretext for their militant state, without actually believing in it. Self-righteous bandits, actually. Some had emigrated to the USA, were educated here, enjoyed the advantages of US citizenship etc., then returned as young fanatics to Palestine (no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, youth organizations connected to a political party). There they deliberately founded their camps outside the areas where Jews had already settled/bought land, I think they called it the Jerusalem Corridor. That is, the aim was to provoke and harass and terrorize established Palestinian villages, near water supplies, etc. The project for the new Jewish caliphate can in many respects be compared to the ISIS project for a new caliphate.

    especially the bolded statement that’s caused such 激动:

    “(no different in character from other fanatical youth groups such as the Hitler Youth or the Komsomol, youth organizations connected to a political party)”

    The only similarity I see is that both groups were young/teenagers. More appropriately, esp. in the case of Jabotinskyites, RZs were young-to slightly older adults, many with superior educations obtained in Germany, Austria, USA, Rome — in the case of Vladimir Jabotinsky hisself: jabotinsky’s friend and biographer, J. Schectman (iirc) recorded that young Vlad found and grounded his “spiritual being” in Rome, where he was an ardent admirer of Mussolini.

    While young Jabotinsky was reveling in the Russian literature of his home town of Odessa — where he disdained most association with things Jewish — then traveling to Rome to immerse himself in studies at universities there, future “Hitler Youth” were living in squalor, their bodies displaying rickets, intellectual deficiencies and other impacts of malnourishment in their youths, brought about by starvation blockades imposed on German 老百姓 — women and children — by those guardians of civilization, the British, with a little help from Chaim Weizmann and his cohort who traded German children for a “Homeland for Jews in Palestine.” (Jews have a long history of taking out their revenge fantasies on other people’s children ***)

    I don’t think “Hitler Youth” were “self-righteous bullies.” Aware of their background and context (i.e. attempting to do analysis, not advocacy), I perceive them as teenagers whose childhood had presaged a bleak future; they were given a new lease on life, a new future, by organization, inspiration and discipline delivered by the NS government [there was a film clip of a German who had been a youth in the NSDAP era, who reflected in positive terms on his life as a Hitler youth. I can no longer find it via a google search. Perhaps Wally can help??]

    法恩霍赫 tells the story the Hitler Youth vested in; the lyrics contain a remembrance of their dead comrade, Horst Wessel; they valorize the “brown battalion” and “SS” who cleared the streets of what had been frequent riots involving “the Red Front” and reactionaries; the lyrics rejoice that the “days of freedom and of bread” were at hand; the German people were unified and had hope under the Stars and Stripes — oops, I mean under the German battle flag with its swastika symbol. Maybe Avery or Skeptikal or even Wiz of Oz can correct my deluded impression, but I don’t see any line or sentiment in 法恩霍赫 that reflects hatred, or the intent to “dash infant’s heads against the rocks” [看到 *** below], yet early in 1933, James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, wrote and published a book titled Swastika; http://www.unz.org/Pub/WiseJames-1933 (full text https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x000417009;view=1up;seq=13 ) it opens with these words:

    “By decree issued in Berlin March 12, 1933, the Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was inscribed the Swastika — symbolizing hatred of the Jew — and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens设立的区域办事处外,我们在美国也开设了办事处,以便我们为当地客户提供更多的支持。“

    The first chapter is titled, The Advance Guard of Hate.

    Those opening words, penned sometime between March 12, 1933 and May, 1933, are even more interesting when juxtaposed with a conversation their author’s father, Rabbi Stephen Wise, had with then-supreme court justice, ultra-zionist and 从hofju Louis Brandeis sometime in the first two weeks of February, 1933: Brandeis directed Wise that “All Jews must leave Germany . . . I urge that no Jew remain in Germany.”
    “How shall all 587,000 Jews should be removed from Germany,” replied Wise, incredulous.
    “I urge that no Jew remain in Germany,” Brandeis repeated. [see “The Challenging Years,” an autobiography, by Rabbi Stephen Wise].

    Makes good sense, you say: Jews in Germany were in grievous peril; of course the ‘leader’ of zionist Jews would direct that they flee that peril.

    BUT: (1) According the Breitman and Lichtman in “FDR and the Jews,” in 1933, Jews in Germany were not only not in a perilous status but the situation of Jews in Germany was calmed by NSDAP: after a short period in which power was consolidated, “NSDAP quelled physical violence against Jews . . . No Jew was sent to a concentration camp until late in 1938.”

    (2) According to Francis Nicosia in Zionism and anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany, Jewish zionists from Palestine (the Mossad el-Aliyeh bet) worked openly with Gestapo and other German government authorities to assist German Jews to migrate to Palestine. If Germans were so driven by Jew-hatred that they were “waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens,” why were they not killing them on the spot?

    (3) The real threat to Jews was taking place in Poland, home to about 3 million Jews, as well as Russia: in the wake of turmoil in those East European locales, Jews from both of these states clamored to get to Germany. The narrative spun around Herschel Grynszpan reflects the tensions between Jews in Poland, the Polish government, and the quest to migrate to Germany.
    Why didn’t Brandeis direct that Jews from Poland be aided to leave Poland and migrate to Palestine?

    (4) Waterman Wise’s book calls the Swastika the “symbol of Jew hatred.”
    Interesting factoid: According to Ernst (“Putzi”) Hanfstaengl, Harvard grad, lunch companion to Franklin Roosevelt, financial backer of the enterprise that published “Mein Kampf” and angel to Adolf Hitler who encouraged him to write the book and later rescued him in the aftermath of the Beer hall Putsch, the “Heil, Hitler” chant was based on a Harvard football cheer, and the bold Red, White and Black Swastika banner that inspired so much fear in Waterman Wise bears an extremely close similarity to banners that dominated the Harvard campus in that era. Harvard’s banner symbolizes Hatred of Jews? Who knew?

    (5) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, by combining readings from Vladimir Jabotinsky’s staunch vision for the resettlement of “ALL diaspora Jews in Palestine,” and Edwin Black’s explanations of the dire economic situation of the zionist project in Palestine, exacerbated by British Mandate rules that only wealthy Jews could enter the land — and only German Jews had that kind of wealth — it’s possible to understand a more try-to-reality version of Brandeis’s directive that “All Jews must leave Germany.” It was about the money (and the fanatic zionist ideology).

    [更多]

    -
    *** Many people know the first part of 诗篇137:
    “By the streams of Babylon we sat and wept
    When we remembered Zion . . .
    If I forget thee o Zion may my right hand be forgotten . . .”

    But have you read the entire psalm to its last lines?

    “Daughter Babylon [Germany, Palestine, Iran], doomed to destruction,
    报答你的人是幸福的
    根据您对我们所做的事情。
    抓住婴儿的人是快乐的
    and dashes them against the rocks.”

    In WWI, exactly what did Germany do to Jews that should demand “repayment”? What has Iran done to Jews?

    What’s really significant, from my perspective, about Psalm 137 is the fact that it is the basis of Verdi’s opera, Nabucco, and the iconic choral, “Va, pensiero,” considered by many Italians to be an unofficial Italian ‘national anthem.’ Verdi subtly but completely reframed Psalm 137: Where the Hebrew psalmist says, “We will hang up our harps and NOT sing our songs,” Verdi says:

    Arpa d'or dei fatidici vati,
    鲈鱼 muta dal salice pendi?
    Le memorie nel petto raccendi,
    ci favella del tempo che fu!

    Golden harp of the prophetic wise men,
    why hang so silently from the willows?
    Rekindle the memories in our hearts,
    tell us about the times gone by!

    And while the Hebrew psalmist concludes his prayer —

    抓住婴儿的人是快乐的
    并冲向岩石。

    Verdi prays:

    o t’ispiri il Signore un concento
    che ne infonda al patire virtù!

    [Let us] be inspired by the Lord
    to fortify us to endure our suffering!

    See the essential difference?
    (Notice especially the word, virtù, and recognize that 美德 — manly courage — was one of Machiavelli’s key concepts. Machiavelli wrote that when a state had completely lost its communal 虚拟, the only possibility for redeeming the state was the creation of a 临时 dictatorship willing to take the harsh measures necessary. As both Leo Strauss and Michael Ledeen state in their treatments of 王子, Machiavelli’s most admired model was Moses, who was willing to- and did- direct the killing of Jews in order to achieve the conquest of Canaan, the Promised land. )

    Go a step further: I know zip of musicology, but I’m aware of the power of Orpheus, i.e. the salvific power of the harp/music/song: the Hebrew psalmist says, “ain’t no way we’re going to let foreigners in on our salvific song, or the mystical power of our harp; no, we’ll kill your children THEN we’ll sing our song to rejoice in our triumph!

    Verdi, and my Italian forebears urge: Sing your songs NOW, when you are so utterly in need of encouragement toward the salvation of your homeland, “so beautiful yet so lost” —

    Oh, mia patria sì bella e perduta!
    Oh, membranza sì cara e fatal!

    But there’s still one more aspect to a comparison of Psalm 137 to Va, pensiero:

    I discovered it through this 双人 — Pavarotti and an Italian popular songster singing a (bastardized) version of Va, Pensiero:

    Zucchero claims his style is inspired by American R&B, but listen beyond the (obvious) gap in talent between him and Pavarotti, to the words they sing.

    Here’s the Zucchero 版本 of Verdi’s version of Psalm 137:

    Reach the land find the place
    Where all children go
    Everynight after listening to this lullaby.

    There you’ll find their heroes alive
    Protecting their innocence
    Bless them all ‘cos their simple soul
    is so pure and wonderful.

    Va’ pensiero sull’ali dorate
    Let this beautiful dream carry on
    For all night long.

    Lend them your golden wings
    Every fear will fly away
    Take them by the hand
    Help’em find an easy way

    Lead them back to the light, back to the light
    Where they once used to belong
    Where they can remain
    Children as long as they want.

    The Hebrew Psalmist says, “Kill their children!”

    Verdi says: “Inspire us with manly courage to reclaim our homeland, so beautiful and lost.”

    Zuccharo sings: “Help ’em find an easy way . . . Where they can be children as long as they want.”

    得出自己的结论。

    What do you wish for your children
    — that they grow up sufficiently motivated to take revenge on other people’s children for the (fantasized) wrongs committed against you?

    — that they grow up steeped in the beauty and possibilities of their homeland, and courageous enough to bring about its revitalization?

    — that they remain children as long as they want, living in a magical dream world ?

    Hey, on a roll here: Just started reading Dinesh D’Souza’s paean to the Jewish holocaust narrative, “The Big Lie.” (irony alert). Don’t have it at my elbow just now, but I recall that D.D’S. included in his litany of Nazee offenses was the so-called NS national anthem, “Die Fahne Hoch.”

    D.D’S. belittles the death of Horst Wessel and asserts that the song drafted by Goebbels is an anthem of hate.
    我不明白
    对比 法恩霍赫 to, say, Toby Keith’s “Courtesy of the Red White and Blue” —
    does it make you proud to belt out, “We’ll put a boot in your eye, It’s the American Way” ?

    Which category of “Va, Pensiero” and the salvific power of song does Toby Keith reflect?
    Which category of the salvific power of song does “Die Fahne Hoch” reflect?
    Why are Jews like ADL and their sycophants like Dinesh D’Souza so afraid of “Die Fahne Hoch?”

    • 回复: @Avery
    , @Rurik
  182. @Anon

    Try this time to remain limited to this town and to German crimes against Jews. You and I are both aware of the context.

    Or you can just admit that killing of a whole town of innocent people is ok with you provided they’re Jews,

    iow, the deaths of millions of other people — innocent civilians or disarmed enemy combatants or turned warriors (i.e. Italian army) are of no account unless they are Jewish.

    I remember the tune, “Dondi,” about an Italian kid orphaned in WWII. I understand that thousands of Italian children were orphaned in WWII.

    The other day I searched for statistics on “Italian orphans WWII.”

    Here’s what the first hit says:
    http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/dc/cou/ita/ita-wo.html

    Large numbers of children were displaced as well as many orphaned. We have very few details on the dimensions of the problem. We know more about the measures taken by Italian authorities to deal with it at this time. We do known that an Irish priest, influenced by Father Flanigan’s Boys’ Town, organized Boys’ Republic in 1945. The Catrtholic Church had programs to support war orphans. In many cases this meant children who had lost their fathers and the moter was unable to support them. Many were taken care of by extended Italian families. But larger numbers of children were on their own or with mothers who could not support them.

    The second hit is to the same website and reports substantially the same story: not much is known; the Catholic Church helped some, but mostly Italian children were on their own.

    The third and fourth hits provide information about

    “a magnificent villa [at Selvino, called Sciesopoli ] that once housed 800 Jewish children orphaned by the Holocaust. . . .
    Designed by architect Paolo Vieti-Violi in 1933, the building included dormitories, refectories, a cinema, an infirmary, a swimming pool and a 17,000-square-meter park. During the Mussolini regime, it had served as an institute for fascist youth.** 。 。 。

    It was organized and run under direction of British forces . . .

    As noted below, the 800 Jewish children were either rescued from “German death camps” or gathered from “ghettoes and concentration camps”. Take you pick: as long as the Jewish kids are described as “victims of Holocaust ™ — i.e. living, breathing, superannuated survivors of the process of being wholly destroyed by fire — the description is accurate. Also as noted below, Italian orphans were assuredly 不能 victims, they were 法西斯主义者。

    “Imagine, inside the building there was a cinema hall and a swimming pool. And it was in the Alps. It was really something for us,” says Burnstein, who is now 85 and lives in Israel. “We were mainly taught general knowledge and Hebrew. The brigade soldiers ran the studies. When we arrived in Israel we were already speaking Hebrew fluently.”
    Sciesopoli provided a shelter to Jewish orphans until 1948; by then, most of the children had found their way to prestate Israel. Vital was the help of the Milan Jewish community, the Milan municipality, the Jewish Brigade, the Jewish Agency, the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, Youth Aliyah and former partisans.
    阅读更多: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.582759″

    The purpose of the article in Haaretz is to raise the alarm that “Today, plans are afoot to tear the place down and build a tourist resort. . . They hope an international Jewish foundation will help them buy the property and work together on a renovation project. . . .to preserve its memory as a haven to Holocaust survivors. . . .
    “We asked the regional council to establish a working group … for a rescue project that would include a memorial to the ‘children of Selvino,’” Cavallarin told Haaretz.

    阅读更多: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.582759

    from wikipedia, “Salvino children” —

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selvino_children

    The Selvino children were a group of approximately 810 Jewish children orphaned by the Holocaust,[1] rescued after World War II from ghettos and concentration camps

    比较:

    the “Sciesopoli” became known as the “Jewish Colony ”. As reported in documents: “the biggest orphanage in Italy and one of the largest in Europe…” approximately 800 Jewish children who survived the Nazi death camps were cared for in the building named Sciesopoli.

    http://www.valbrembana.eu/en/poi/sciesopoli-dNSfwKYeyW-en

    But what happened to the thousands of Italian children who were orphaned by war?

    They got kicked out of the facility created for them.
    In exchange they got a song. And a movie.
    这样的交易。

    -
    ** “institute for fascist youth” — ” A former 法西斯 children’s home called Sciesopol . . . The facility had been constructed in the 1932-1934s (the colony was inaugurated on June 11, 1933, built by the architect of sports facilities Paolo Vietti Violi) as a “sports palace” or gymnasium and training center for athletes.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selvino_children

  183. Avery 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    You needn’t have written your very long post with ample references to Jews: I am not Jewish.
    I am of Armenian descent. Not my fight: lots of Jewish posters to discuss with you what you call {……those here who suffer from HDSⒸ [Hitler Derangement Syndrome]: }

    (I suppose you consider yours truly so suffering from said syndrome?: you don’t have to be PC; you can tell it to my face)

    My interest in Hitler and Nazis is their invasion of USSR (Armenia SSR was part of USSR then and lots and lots of Armenians from throughout USSR fought and KIA fighting Nazi invaders, including very high ranking officers)**.

    All you had to do was entertain my original query, and not go on a Jewish tangent*.

    你写了:
    [{Hitler Youth did not use terror, they used discipline. Their goal was not stealing other people’s land but rather defending their own.}]

    我写:
    [You are not serious, are you?
    What were Hitler’s troops doing in Stalingrad?
    Defending their own?
    And of course Hitler was defending his own when he invaded USSR and killed millions of Slavic civilians,
    And of course there was no such thing as Lebensraum.]

    Again, what were Hitler’s troops doing on the banks of Volga river, ~3,000 kilometers East of Berlin?
    And murdering ~15 million Soviet civilians and 10 million Soviet troops KIA is no syndrome: it is a fact.

    ___________
    * I know all about Jewish-American Neocons, Jewish-American NGOs (e.g. ADL) who are working with Turks to deny the Armenian Genocide, State of Israel helping Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan to exterminate indigenous Armenians of Artsakh (aka Nagorno-Karabagh),….I know it all.
    But I am discussing WW2 and invasion of USSR here, not the history of Jews.

    ** [During World War II, Marshal Bagramyan was the first non-Slavic military officer to become a commander of a Front. He was among several Armenians in the Soviet Army who held the highest proportion of high-ranking officers in the Soviet military during the war.] (Wiki)

  184. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I rather think Mulegino1 is fine with these things. His hero Codreanu was chanting “kill the Jews” long before the war began. That’s why he won’t answer. Being honest would alienate allies like you.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  185. @Mulegino1

    ” and (raping) and looting”

    You are crazy , and talking shit.

    If there is one thing American soldiers were not guilty of that is/was “raping” of innocent women in war zones.

    No denying there were such rare and severely punished incidents, but such as wrought upon the civilian female population of Germany by the Russians : Did not happen.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet and pro Jazz musician.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
    , @SolontoCroesus
  186. annamaria 说:
    @Anon

    What you wrote has no sense in the context of the discussion. Except if you want to litter the Unz forum with debris.

    • 回复: @Anon
  187. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @annamaria

    你开玩笑的对吧?

    To bring down a building requires force.

    Force, according to the most basic principle in physics, is equal to mass times acceleration.

    Both a building and a plane have made. Only one has acceleration.

    Can’t make it any more relevant for you. Sorry.

    • 回复: @annamaria
  188. annamaria 说:
    @dcite

    It is interesting that Allen Dulles legacy is his subversive and considerable anti-democratic and pro-fascism influence which, in the long run, has profoundly hurt the US. It does make some minor justice to the legacy of Dulles that Imran Awan was arrested at the Dulles airport. The history of ziocon influence on the US policies is inseparable from the history of Dulles’ CIA. The incompetence of the CIA is traced to Dulles as well because of his cult unaccountability.
    https://theintercept.com/2015/11/02/the-deepest-state-the-safari-club-allen-dulles-and-the-devils-chessboard/
    Dulles’ dictum, “Democracy only works if the so-called intelligent people make it work. You can’t sit back and let democracy run itself,” has been taken in earnest by the US deciders — who did not “sit” indeed. As a result, we have a pre-nuclear-war situation, the devastating rule of banksters and war-profiteers, and the voiceless US citizenry (see single-payer bill killed in California by the Democrats). The official reports on the JFK murder and on the 9/11 “event” have too many holes to trust the thoroughly corrupt and incompetent puppets in the US Congress.

    • 回复: @Ronald Thomas West
  189. Actually, I wonder if they had a lot of spring in their back, or just an agile tongue: who will help me decide.

  190. Mulegino1 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Of course nothing is comparable to what the Red Army (not necessarily Russians) did to the women of Germany, but the western Allies did their fair share of raping and looting. I suggest you check out the book: “What Soldiers Do.” Also, how do you explain the mass rape of the Italian women in the villages in the vicinity of Monte Cassino (the destruction of which is another example of Allied barbarism)?
    They were carried out by Moroccan troops encouraged to do so by the “Free French” General Jouin. The whole b.s. “Private Ryan” liberation narrative is crap. The only things liberated by the Anglo-Americans were the lives, real estate and possessions of Western and Central Europeans- from their rightful possessors.

    • 回复: @Authenticjazzman
  191. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    Do you seriously think that I am ashamed or apologetic about having Codreanu as my avatar? Forget that. Codreanu was a true fighter for his people and ultimately paid for that with his life. That is more than most of the imbecilic lumpen prole infotainment consumers can say about those they admire, with their football jerseys evincing their admiration of athletes named Keishan, Devall or Tyrone.

    Who are your role models? Ellen De Generes? Kanye West? The cast of “The View”?

    • 回复: @Anon
  192. annamaria 说:
    @Anon

    “Both a building and a plane have made.” – ?!

    Have you considered the direction of the force? Why don’t you first read the experts — the physicists’, chemists’, architects’, and mechanical engineers’ reports — before presenting the “basic principle in physics?”

    • 回复: @Anon
  193. Rurik 说:
    @SolontoCroesus

    https://www.unz.com/proberts/tyranny-at-nuremberg/

    good read on allied treachery and lies following WWII

    1940 年,杰克逊担任美国司法部长。 他向联邦检察官发表了讲话,并警告他们不要“挑选这名男子,然后让调查人员开始工作,将某些罪行归咎于他。 正是在这个领域——检察官选择了一些他不喜欢或希望为难的人,或者选择了一些不受欢迎的人然后寻找罪名——滥用起诉权的最大危险就在于此。 正是在这里,执法变得个人化,而真正的犯罪变成了不受主要或统治集团欢迎、依附于错误的政治观点或个人厌恶或妨碍检察官本人的罪行。”

    I wonder if PCR was thinking in the back of his mind about Robert Mueller’s use of the law to destroy an unpopular person (and scores of millions of deplorables and irredeemables) and then looks for an ‘offense’ to convict them of?

    how much would you like to bet that they’d love to crush some testicles (like they did to the Nazi defendants) in order to get some confessions?

  194. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    No, I think you’re ashamed to say clearly that you think Nazis shooting dozens of Jews is all right with you under any circumstances, which is what Codreanu himself believed.

    So say it.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  195. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @annamaria

    Because unless you’re a physicist, you should start with basic principles.

  196. MarkinLA 说:
    @Mulegino1

    A body in motion – any body has kinetic energy equal to 1/2 times it’s mass times it’s velocity squared. 100 tons of an airplane traveling at 500 miles an hours is a lot of kinetic energy. This energy damages the supports by bending them, knocking holes in them, and this energy is converted to heat energy when it compresses the metal it contacts and when it compresses itself.

    If you knew about the armor piercing bullets you pretend to, you would know that they penetrate the steel by compressing it to the point that it becomes molten. The back part of the bullet is still moving forward and pushes the molten steel out of the way. This same conversion of kinetic energy to heat is going on when the aircraft slams into the major structural components of the building. Of course, with such a large cross-sectional area, the heat generated isn’t enough to melt steel by itself but that heat is added to the heat generated by the burning jet fuel.

    It doesn’t matter if the material penetrating the steel was made out of wood or tungsten as long as the projectile has the necessary energy to compress the steel to a molten state. It would just have to go extremely fast for a piece of wood to penetrate steel as compared to tungsten. Where the material would come into the discussion is that a denser material would have a smaller cross section and the pressure at the impact point would be much higher for the same mass. The idea that an airplane weighing 100 tons going 500 miles an hour should disintegrate at the side of the building without penetration, cartoon style, is something only somebody who has never taken any physics at any level could believe.

  197. MarkinLA 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Why don’t the ammunition manufacturers make armor piercing ammunition with hollow aluminum bullets, since they would be much lighter and have a greater velocity with respect to their target?

    Take a look at reloading tables. Lighter bullets take more powder and have higher velocity but they lose power quicker. Even a solid aluminum bullet would require so much powder that it could not be put in a typical cartridge that a soldier could carry. In addition, after a few hundreds yards it would have lost so much energy that it would be useless in combat.

  198. MarkinLA 说:
    @Sparkon

    Because the WTC towers’ construction was lighter toward the top, and much more massive toward the ground, there is no way that the lighter upper floors could possibly crush the much stronger lower floors.

    They can if they are moving downward like a pile driver.

    One floor does not support the entire weight of the building above the floor. They are attached to the main superstructure which supports the weight of all the floors. However, the attachment points for each floor only support the weight of a floor and the necessary safety margin. The force of the top of the building coming down on an intact floor like a pile driver is enough to sever the attachment points of that floor. The pile driver has just added more mass to itself and it’s velocity was not slowed enough to compensate so it has even more energy as it shears off floor after floor until the whole building is down.

    Why then isn’t the superstructure still standing? Because this huge mass of I beams, cement, and other debris pushing outward in all directions has pushed, twisted, and squashed it in into numerous failure modes.

    • 回复: @Sparkon
    , @Wizard of Oz
  199. MarkinLA 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    resorted to (illegal) partisan warfare

    What is illegal about it, there was no peace treaty. In addition, the German were brutal to the Slavs since they didn’t think it would matter.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  200. glitch 说:

    How did a thread about the brothers Awan get turned into holocaust arguminutia?

    Classic thread jack guys, but seriously over done.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  201. @MarkinLA

    Illegal according to the conventions of war at the time re. non-uniformed combatants; reprisal shootings for such acts were also carried out by the British and Americans in Italy. Not that we really need to discuss how the British historically dealt with resistance in India and Africa to their empire, do we?

  202. @glitch

    Probably because the Awan caper is part of an overall milieu of a Jewish ruling class in the US, and the holocaust as an official orthodoxy is obviously part of that power structure.

  203. @Authenticjazzman

    If there is one thing American soldiers were not guilty of that is/was “raping” of innocent women in war zones.

    Germany’s ‘brown babies’ go in search of their American fathers: The extraordinary story of thousands of wartime children born to German mothers and black GIs
    每日邮报记者
    21 2011十一月
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064446/Germanys-brown-babies-search-American-fathers.html#ixzz4pawfy4l8

    ‘Brown babies’ in postwar Europe : the Italian case

    PATRIARCA, Silvana
    http://cadmus.eui.eu/handle/1814/41165

    • 回复: @Authenticjazzman
  204. Sparkon 说:
    @MarkinLA

    No,无论您多么猛烈地挥手,较轻的顶层都无法压碎更重、更坚固的底层。

    回想一下,上面的 30 层楼已经安静地坐在那里 30 年,没有压碎任何东西。 即使与建筑物的其他部分断开连接,作用在上部的唯一力是重力,和以前一样,所以这整个猜想完全是无稽之谈。


    Steel box columns 2.5″ thick at the bottom, 0.25″ near the top. The “pile driver” is rubbish.

    And anyway, before you can have your fanciful lightweight pile driver, you’ve got to explain how the top of WTC 2 got disconnected from the rest of the building in the first place, as we see in the image I posted upstream, in my #145.

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-tale-of-the-brothers-awan/#comment-1964605

    That involved not only cutting the central core, but also severing most if not all of the 244 exterior 14″ steel box columns.

    Even a 767 with cutting edge wings going 500 mph — as fast as a speeding BB — wouldn’t be able to swing those razor sharp magic flying slicers around to get all the perimeter columns, in addition to the massive central core, and just cut off the entire top of the building like that, would it?

    穿甲弹由可用的最硬材料制成,包括 DU,它们以非常高的速度推进,初速接近 4,000 mph,或 5,600 fps。

    500 mph is 733 fps, BB gun velocity. So it’s a soft metal, not going that fast, encountering hard steel.

    目标由一块 7 m 见方、3.66 m 厚的钢筋混凝土块组成,总质量为 469 吨(几乎是军用喷气式飞机重量的 25 倍)。 在撞击时,每个机翼和尾翼的一部分都被剪掉了。 飞机的其余部分在撞击中被完全摧毁. 碎片分散在大面积上; 然而,模拟煤油的水的分散相对较小。 由于钢筋混凝土墙安装在一个空气轴承平台的顶部,它只是受到了轻微的损坏——混凝土在目标的正面剥落。 发动机引起的穿透深度为 60 毫米,机身引起的穿透深度为 20 毫米。

    https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/aircraft-impact-damage-on-movable-concrete-block-vs-non-movable-concrete-block.495223/

    So the engines penetrated to a depth of ~2.5″, the fuselage — substantially less. Of course, the jet-sled Phantom didn’t have the steak knife wings, so there’s that.

    • 回复: @Wizard of Oz
    , @MarkinLA
  205. Anon • 免责声明 说:

    I hate to have to repeat myself — really I do — but as the top floors are falling, they are gaining mass (due to the increased amount of falling material) and acceleration (9.8 m per s^2), thus adding significant force as they fall.

  206. @annamaria

    Great link, thank you annamaria. Few people grasp the extent of the Dulles brothers’ legacy at CIA and especially the Dulles legacy at Germany’s BND … where Germany’s intelligence agency is in possession of a ‘captured’ executive –

    • 回复: @annamaria
  207. @SolontoCroesus

    These “brown babies”, and white american fathered babies after the war in Germany, Italy, GB, France, were most definitely not the result of “Rape”, rather the liasons between GIs and multitudes of european women who were trying to make it to the US as a so-called war-brides.

    In war ravished Europe the conditions were horrid and the big dream for the impoverished populations was to somehow make it to the US, and one of the avenues was to find a GI and cross the Atlantic as a “war-bride”, however many of the relationships dissipated due to the tough demands of military life, and the girls were left behind with their Kids, who were by the way entitled to US citizenship, which many of these now adults hold.

    I was stationed in post-war Germany and France and there most certainly was no talk of “Rape” having been the cause of the manifestation of of these american-fathered children.
    A GI convicted of rape could have been sentenced to death.

    Oh Yeah just why the hell would the now adult “brown-babies” go searching for the the guys who supposedly “Raped” their mother? This all pure nonsense and you know it yourself.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society members since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

  208. @Mulegino1

    The “Mass raping” of Italian women by French/Moroccan troops has nothing to do with American soldiers, who did NOT engage in such crimes.

    You are twisting facts and concocting implications to fit your viewpoint.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

  209. Skeptikal 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yes, 2 million of the 4 million total are thought to have been the victims of Einsatztkommandos operating in occupied countries.
    This figure is used by Louis Snyder, Encyclopedia of the Third Reich, which I think is considered a pretty good source. He says, “These formations [Einsatzgruppen, Einsatzkommandos, Einsatztruppen] were given the task of supervising the Final Solution of the Jewish problem by extermination. Together with other elements of hte Security Police, they were responsible for the deaths of 2 million of the estimated 6 million Jews killed.”

    However he also says that they were “charged with destroying Communists, partisans, saboteurs, and Jews on the eastern front.”

    They also participated in wiping out whole villages.
    Wikipedia has this:
    “Under the direction of Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler and the supervision of SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, the Einsatzgruppen operated in territories occupied by the German armed forces following the invasion of Poland in September 1939 and Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of the Soviet Union) launched from occupied Poland in June 1941. The Einsatzgruppen worked hand-in-hand with the Orpo Police Battalions on the Eastern Front to carry out operations ranging from the murder of a few people to operations which lasted over two or more days, such as the massacre at Babi Yar with 33,771 Jews killed in two days, and the Rumbula massacre (with about 25,000 killed in two days of shooting). As ordered by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, the Wehrmacht cooperated with the Einsatzgruppen and provided logistical support for their operations. Historian Raul Hilberg estimates that between 1941 and 1945 the Einsatzgruppen and related auxiliary troops killed more than two million people, including 1.3 million Jews. The total number of Jews murdered during the Holocaust is estimated at 5.5 to 6 million people.”

    With such numbers it wouldn’t take long to add up to 400,000.
    Not to forget, the Einsatzgruppen were active before the extermination camps were up and running. The primary locus for Einsatzgruppen activities were Poland and Ukraine (Babi Yar was the extermiantion of the ca. 37,000 Jews of Kiev). Ukraine was to be cleared of population except for remaining slave labor, so a lot of Ukrainians were victims of the Einsatzkommandos.

    In a way, it is no wonder the Ukrainians of today seem to be sort of demented. It is really inconceivable what the parents and families of current adults experienced in their lives. As we know, trauma is not banished with death but lives on in various forms in the children of the traumatized.

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
    , @Authenticjazzman
  210. @Anon

    You are right of course that it may matter whuch is in motion but you would have to get a figure for acceleration for the plane which was not apporeciably accelerating when it struck. Tentatively I would concoct a fantastically high figure for acceleration out of the rate of decdleration calculated from where the plane’s centre of mass was at the moment it hit to where it was in one second or whatever it was after it hit and had stopped. But maybe kinetic eñergy is more to ths point. The formula KE= 1/2 mv^2 where v is velocity makes your point very well since the building had no kinetic energy and the plane, because its high velocity is squares, has a great deal. The steel tube upright members which were on the outside edge of the buidings to maximise lettable space provided what may be regarded as friction to slow down the aircraft and generate enormous heat.

    BTW if any of the truthers are still with us who scoffed at some relatively recent research and theorising which suggested the explosive qualities of aluminium at high temperature, at least in the presence of water, may have been responsible for some sound of explosion claimed to be heard by firemen, I invite them to consider some long obfuscated historical facts. First, there is no evidence that there is no evidence that the second explosion which hastened the sinking of the Lusitania was caused by a torpedo Second, there is strong evidence that it was caused by the explosion of aluminium powder which the ship was carrying (and maybe might have made the sinking justifiable if the Germans had known about it, which they obviously didn’t).

  211. @Sparkon

    You only seem to know only how to be simply and obviously wrong in many words. The idea that the top of the building had to be disconnected from the lower floors to achieve destructive momentum under gravity is sbsurd. There simply had to be sufficient weakening of support to allow the weight of the upper floors above to overcome any remaining weak structural resistance where fire had been weakening the steel.

    Your blather about light weight upper stories and heavier solider lower stories is just irrlevant crap which you have no chance of supporting with facts so I wonder if it is even worth inviting you to consuder the killer argument against the nonsense you have just spouted. That is the implications of WTC 2 comung down much sooner after the impact of the plane under the weight of 24 to 32 floors than WTC 1 under the werght of 11 to 15 floors.

  212. @MarkinLA

    He is just one of the many truthers who are simply incapable of understanding such clear explanation.. Whether it has anything to do with the religious nature of their beliefs would be interesting to investigate. No doubt they wouldn’t have been easily put off belief in prophets ascending into heaven.

  213. annamaria 说:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    From Paul Craig Roberts: “Here is David Irving’s account of his arrest, trial, and imprisonment in Austria. His conviction was overturned by a higher court, and he was released. http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Banged/up.pdf

    “On December 5, 1975, while researching 希特勒的战争, I had asked Professor Hilberg, “Is there any acceptable evidence linking Hitler himself with the order to exterminate European Jews?” I added that there was of course enough evidence linking Hitler with the killing of Russian Jews and with the deportation of the European Jews to the East.
    Professor Hilberg [Austrian-born Jewish-American political scientist and historian] replied that he too now believed there was no such Hitler extermination order: “Possibly, the destruction of the Jews was so drastic that it could only have occurred in an organic, evolutionary process, from vagueness to specify city, and in a very real administrative sense, from the bottom up.”
    ---------
    “On January 13, 1993 a Munich court fines me thirty thousand marks, around \$25,000, for stating that the gas chamber shown to tourists at Auschwitz, the Nazi “death camp,” is a post-war fake. Poland has since confirmed that it was built in 1948. Despite this, countries around the world have used this “conviction”.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  214. @annamaria

    Indeed, the glaring lack of any kind of forensic or documentary evidence to support the very striking claims of the official narrative is precisely why Hilberg claims that Nazi officials essentially employed telepathy (a “meeting of the minds”) to carry out genocide. That planners during total war would be able to conduct operations this way is a little unbelievable, to put it mildly.

  215. Mulegino1 说:
    @Skeptikal

    I am not familiar with the particulars of the Rumbula massacre, but the tale of 33,000 plus Jews at Babi Yar appears to be a complete hoax. When the German Army occupied Kiev, there were detonations of bombs which had been planted in advance and which killed dozens of the occupation forces. There were some reprisal shootings for these illegal partisan actions, but nothing like 33,000.

    The whole narrative of Babi Yar is ridiculous: the story goes that the Germans marched the Jews to the ravine, shot them down, buried them and then dug up the bodies during the infamous “Aktion 1005” and burned all of the bodies to ashes on tombstones from a Jewish cemetery. The whole thing is nonsense. Such a massive operation would have required considerable earth moving equipment, hundreds of thousands of pounds of dried, cured firewood and the additional necessity of disposing of the cremated remains. Yet, aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of the ravine in the immediate aftermath of the alleged massive cremation operations show nothing; no major topographical disturbances no traces of the huge amount of wood ash, no mounds of earth, and no access roads into the ravine. Like many of the grossly exaggerated claims of the Holohoax Industry, Babi Yar is just another free invention of Soviet propaganda.

    Nobody questions the fact that there were reprisal shootings carried out by the Einsatzgruppen or that the anti-partisan activity fully reciprocated the brutal (and in many instances sadistic and cruel) actions of the partisans, but it is likely that the numbers of victims of the alleged “Holocaust by bullets” has been exaggerated a hundred fold.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
    , @Anon
  216. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    I think that you’re ashamed to admit that the Allies burning hundreds of thousands of men, women and children to death in the great incendiary raids, deliberately strafing civilians and refugee columns, not to mention carrying out the greatest mass rape in recorded history is far worse in quantitative terms than the reprisal executions carried out on a scale lower by orders of magnitude in response to horrendous, vicious and in many cases sadistic partisan activity. Just say so.

  217. Mulegino1 说:
    @Avery

    No, David Glantz did not debunk the very palpable fact that the Soviets were preparing a massive invasion of Europe, scheduled for sometime in the summer or early fall of 1941:

    The Red Army was not a “staggering colossus” as the title of Glantz’s book implies. The Soviets crushed the Japanese in the Battle of Khalkin Gol in 1939, and- despite taking heavy casualties in the Winter War against Finland- did manage to breach the Mannerheim Line, an extremely formidable and fortified defense.

    The facts on the ground demonstrate quite convincingly that the Soviets were preparing for a massive invasion, with the bulk of their ground forces placed in the Lvov and Byalistock Salients along an east to west axis – perfect for offensive warfare, absolutely disastrous if preempted – which was indeed the case. That is the real reason for the vast encirclements of entire armies and the netting of huge amounts of prisoners during the first few weeks of Barbarossa. The Wehrmacht would never have been able to breach a fortified and strengthened Stalin Line.

  218. @Mulegino1

    Yes. Even if we grant something like 1-2K people were shot at Babi Yar (to pick just a plausible number at random, keep in mind the official narrative claims 150K (!), Jews and non-Jews, were shot there over the entire course of the war), as you note, this was in response to a bombing of German HQ. Something the Americans would howl about terrorism if it happened to them.

    Again, it needs to be repeated, apparently: however harsh and brutal German actions were, they were wartime contingencies and NOT an extermination plan. Why are some people ok with 1000’s of Jews shot at Babi Yar, but not 100K Japanese killed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo? (Never mind, I know the answer.)

  219. @Mulegino1

    Also, Glantz (or anyone else) did not have anything like unfettered access to post-Soviet war archives, and does not claim so (although he does not exactly try to disabuse popular impressions to the contrary).

    • 回复: @Anon
  220. Avery 说:
    @Mulegino1

    {No, David Glantz did not debunk…}

    是他做的。

    芬兰军队和日本帝国军队都不在国防军的联盟中。
    国防军在不到 2 个月的时间内征服了整个法国。当时的法国拥有比国防军更多的大炮和更多更好的坦克。两者都有相同数量的人员/师。
    他们持续了整整46天。

    { the Winter War against Finland….}

    对芬兰的战争对红军来说是一场灾难。
    它最终仅凭人数就战胜了小国芬兰。
    苏联在男性方面的损失大约是芬兰的 4 到 5 倍。
    这是红军的血腥屠杀。
    希特勒对红军力量的错误估计部分是基于其在冬季战争中的灾难性表现。

    “我们只需要踢门,整个腐烂的结构就会崩溃。”
    ——阿道夫·希特勒,就在巴巴罗萨行动之前。

    很难评价一支能够征服纳粹德国的军事力量。

    {That is the real reason for the vast encirclements of entire armies….}

    真正的原因是当希特勒发动巴巴罗萨时,斯大林震惊并瘫痪了数小时/数天。 几个小时以来,随着纳粹越境的报道传来,斯大林拒绝相信这是真实的,认为这是一种挑衅,并禁止红军进行反击。

    When he realized the invasion was real, he irrationally and in full panic refused to allow Red Army divisions to fall back, hallucinating that that would stop the Blitzkrieg. Millions of Red Army troops were encircled and either wiped out or taken prisoner (….to be later murdered by Nazi invaders: deliberately starved to death).

    这才是整个红军被大包围的真正原因。
    And the real reason for Hitler’s invasion of USSR was 栖息地: 斯拉夫语 下人 种族灭绝,然后让日耳曼人居住在人口稀少的斯拉夫土地上。

  221. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    I’m not afraid to say any of that, with the exception of the last part. Obviously the crimes committed by the Allies against civilian populations were on a massive scale and crimes against humanity for which there is no excuse. But to claim they were “far worse” than what the Nazis did to whole populations (with the exception of the Soviet rape campaign, which I submit is equally awful) is just blindingly dumb.

    So I’m perfectly able to admit that “my side” did things for which there is no excuse.

    You, on the other hand, will use a photo of a murderous Jew hater as your avatar but not admit that the actions the Nazis committed that would form the natural culmination of Codreanu’s words are absolutely fine by you. That makes you a coward, and a miserable one at that. I’d respect you for being honest if you just said it, which you won’t. And that makes you pathetic to boot.

  222. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Rumbula is among the best documented war crimes in human history. There are reams of testimony from perpetrators, bystanders, and survivors, not to mention a documentary record that puts the whole event essentially beyond denial. Himmler’s service calendar remarks on the events repeatedly. When Aktion 1005 went to Riga and dug up bodies and burned them, the city stank for days, as witnesses still alive today can attest. To deny what happened at Rumbula would be the height of stupidity.

    So it follows: If the Nazis were willing to shoot thousands of Jews at Rumbula, then what makes you think they’d have held their fire at Babi Yar?

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  223. @Skeptikal

    ” As we know, trauma is not banished with death but lives on in various forms in the children of the traumatized”

    Just who the hell is “We” : I don’t identify with this theory because it is simply not true, although it is another obnoxious and false concept propagated by the worst BS artists on this planet : Shrinks : Psychiatrists and Psychologists.

    Children of “Traumatized” parents, if removed from the scene or conditions or cause of their parent’s trauma, bear no remnants whatsoever of their parents Trauma.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet and pro Jazz artist.

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  224. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    A couple of points here. First, Germany did not enter a total war scenario until 1943, by which point most of the Jews in Europe were already dead. Second, even if that were not true, your statement about Hilberg demonstrates the extent to which you’re totally ignorant of his argument.

  225. Mulegino1 说:
    @Avery

    Good grief. A farrago of cliches and invocations of “lebensraum” (which incidentally, only means “living space”, predated the National Socialist movement and has no really sinister connotations unless force fit into the Manichean narrative of official historiography). I do not think I have heard that old cliche “untermenschen” for quite a while.

    France was defeated because of Von Manstein’s and unanticipated armored thrust through the Ardennes, which effectively split the allied forces in two, not because the Wehrmacht was full of wunderwaffen or supermen. The Wehrmacht simply had better leadership and tactics. In a war of attrition this would not matter in the long run, which is why Hitler knew that the war against the Soviets could only be won by a knockout punch.

    Hitler was not stupid. As he confessed to Marshal Mannerheim in the surreptitiously recorded meeting in the rail car, he knew that Barbarossa was a desperate gamble, and that his forces were not equipped for a winter war or for a long war of attrition. He acted not out of desperation in the face of a gigantic invasion force staging on the western frontiers of the USSR and, had it not been preempted, would have swept through Europe like a tsunami.

    The fact is that Hitler only ordered his generals to plan for Barbarossa after his and Ribbentrop’s last meeting with Molotov in November of 1940, when the latter’s demands made clear that the Soviets had no interest in maintaining the terms of Molotov-Ribbentrop. The Soviets had annexed the Baltics and Besarrabia. They had invaded both eastern Poland and Finland and were demanding the right to reoccupy Finland, annex Bukovina, in effect, to occupy Romania, and to make a move on the Dardanelles.

    How do you explain the deployment of the 9th Rifle Corps- the most powerful military formation on the face of the earth- at the Romanian border -in easy striking distance of the Romanian oil fields – in the spring and early summer of 1941? The seizure of the oil fields would have led the mechanized assets of the Wehrmacht to grind to a halt within a few weeks.

  226. Mulegino1 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    I think you meant to write, “Why are some people not okay with 1000’s of Jews (allegedly) shot at Babi Yar…”

    To further illustrate the point – German soldiers were regulary murdered, tortured and mutilated by partisans. Many had their eyes gouged out; some were burned to death. Do you remember the outrage at the four mercenaries being hanged on the bridge in Fallujah? How many thousands ofIraqi civilians had to die to avenge their deaths? Our kosher overlords are absolutely implacable in their selective indignation.

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  227. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    I know little about Rumbula, but I would like to know where the mass graves were located, how they were excavated- was it by shovel, excavators, or perchance with Sonderkommando digging with their hands? Also, how were the hundreds of thousands of pounds of dried, cured firewood obtained and how were they transported?

    Also, I am not claiming that the “Nazis” held their fire at Babi Yar, only that the execution of a few hundred or so hostages or partisan suspects is a far cry from the execution, burial, exhumation and cremation of over 30,000 victims, for which there is ZERO forensic evidence.

    • 回复: @Anon
  228. Skeptikal 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    我的意思是,由这些父母抚养长大的孩子。
    我同意许多精神科医生/收缩(相同的差异)据说充满了 BS。 我对精神病医生及其信仰和实践知之甚少。
    我的评论并非来自精神病学的实践。
    相反,许多心理学家已经注意到非常清晰的多代行为模式。
    不仅仅是对创伤的反应,还有其他模式。
    例如,在一个家庭中,对创伤(可能有多种原因,例如离婚、严重疾病、父母或其他孩子的死亡等)的反应是作为一个家庭团结在一起。
    另一方面,对创伤的明确反应是家庭破裂。
    世界上有许多创伤的来源,而不仅仅是战争。
    I am sure that as a member of Mensa you know this already, or, if you don’t already know it, it certainly will not be admitted to your knowledge universe now.
    每次看到你的标语都会让我笑出声来。
    Actually, just wondering about Mensa membership, I googled “Mensa criteria” and Google helpfully returned some additional questions, which I had never considered. One of them was “How much does Mensa membership cost?” The answer: “The Mensa Admission Test costs \$40, takes two hours, and consists of two separate exams: the Mensa Wonderlic® and the Mensa Admission Test. Anyone scoring in the 98th percentile or higher on either gains the right to pay \$70 per year for membership.”
    Wow, \$70/year since 1973 = \$3,080!!
    Now, if that money had been compounded at 5% (including of course the additional \$70/year), how much would it be? According to the Monkey calculator that would be \$11,708.01 by now. Paying for that annual Mensa membership—gaining “the right to pay for Mensa membership”—doesn’t sound all that smart to me . . .

    • 回复: @Authenticjazzman
  229. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    Well, gee, it might help by pointing out that Rumbula is a forest…

    • 回复: @Mulegino1
  230. Skeptikal 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “nd NOT an extermination plan. ”

    I assume you speak German and thus can verify or refute the existencen of an extermination plan relating to the population of Ukraine.

    Here is an English-language entry on Generalplan Ost:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    For German readers like yourself:
    http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0138_gpo&object=context&l=de

    Here you can page through each page of one of the relevant documents and read about the plans in detail:
    http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0138_gpo&object=facsimile&pimage=99&v=100&nav=&l=de

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  231. @Mulegino1

    Yes, you are right, I messed that up. My point is that we hear great outrage and calls for moral soul-searching because of particular German crimes realistically numbering in the 1000’s, but not much about Allied crimes numbering much, much higher.

  232. @Beefcake the Mighty

    内容应为:

    Why are some people *not ok* with 1000′s of Jews shot at Babi Yar, but *ok* with 100K Japanese killed in the fire-bombing of Tokyo? (Never mind, I know the answer.)

    • 同意: Talha
  233. @Anon

    As always, bringing up Hilberg’s rationalization for the lack of documentary evidence hits a nerve. But his claim is specious on its face. Why should I grant him the benefit of a charitable interpretation, when his argument is ridiculous?

  234. @Anon

    Fair enough regarding the timeline of German economic planning. But it is nonetheless absurd to think that, during a two-front war against opponents with far greater resources, a genocide was organized and operated by nods and winks, which is essentially what Hilberg claims.

  235. Mulegino1 说:
    @Anon

    Forest or not, it takes months of exposure to dry, warm weather to dry and cure firewood – or a storage facility to shield the wood from the elements. It is not a matter of simply cutting down green trees and setting the wood on fire.

    • 回复: @Anon
  236. @Skeptikal

    Generalplan Ost is one of those fictitious “official” documents that were never actually uncovered in some German archive but rather a nebulous plot inferred from different, often conflicting German plans re. the postwar East. The idea that there was some master plan to kill Slavs (after the Jews were finished) is pure bunk. (Not that the Germans had much regard for the Slavic population in these areas, but German concern was with their war effort, no different from any other occupying power. In contrast witness the British-engineered famine in the Bengal, which went well beyond any legitimate British war effort.)

    • 回复: @Anon
    , @Skeptikal
  237. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    你在这里犯了很多错误,其中最重要的是歪曲了希尔伯格的论点。 更重要的是,大部分计划在两线战争开始之前就已经完成。 大部分杀戮在第二条战线到达欧洲(西西里岛)之前就结束了。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  238. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Mulegino1

    我想这就是森林火灾永远不会发生的原因。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  239. Skeptikal 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    实际上,我链接的网站上的文档看起来并不“模糊”。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  240. @Anon

    荒谬的比较。 森林火灾发生在非常特定的条件下,例如,您不会通过简单地将一些随机树扔掉很多火柴来引发森林火灾。

    • 回复: @Anon
  241. @Anon

    你只是在这里迂腐。 德国人不得不在整个苏联战役中应对英美威胁,远在西方真正登陆之前。

    • 回复: @Anon
  242. @Skeptikal

    我使用“模糊”一词来描述战后德国为征服东方制定的邪恶计划的常见概念,根据您的第一个链接 (Wiki),该描述非常贴切(因为据说有很多计划,有很多相关文档)被聪明的德国人轻易地摧毁了)。

    我不否认德国人制定了(几个)计划来处理南联盟的被占领土,但这些(也许只是因为战时突发事件)从来都只是假设。 尤其是,尽管德国的胜利无疑会对 SU 的斯拉夫人口造成有害的人口后果(在布尔什维克之前,这样一个贫穷地区的大规模死亡人数实际上是数百万人依赖于丰收的财富),但在您的链接文件说说故意杀了这些人?

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
  243. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    非常好。 现在将相同的逻辑应用于 Aktion 1005。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  244. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    美国人甚至直到进入巴巴罗萨 6 个月才参战。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  245. Skeptikal 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    “你链接的文件中有没有提到故意杀死这些人?”

    自己通读一遍。 许多文件不=“模糊”。 你的上一个用法排除文件的存在。 现在“模糊”=许多文件。 . . .

    记录你的主张是你的工作,而不是我的。

    如果您不会说/不会阅读德语,则无法查看任何档案文件,恕我直言,您也无法就此主题发表权威性言论。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  246. @Anon

    怎么样? 我不否认德国人在东部犯下了足够多的罪行,以至于他们在开始输掉战争时害怕受到谴责,因此试图隐瞒这些罪行。 然而,很难说他们犯下了所声称的数量惊人的罪行。

    • 回复: @Anon
  247. @Anon

    更多的迂腐。 美国人正在大西洋以海军挑衅的方式对德国发动未宣战的战争,无论如何,他们明确表示他们支持英国。

  248. 请记住,美国人和英国人在结果不确定之前就宣布他们打算以战争罪审判德国领导层,因此德国人有充分的动机限制他们向盟军提供的饲料数量。

  249. Anon • 免责声明 说:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    关键是 Aktion 1005 是为了通过焚烧尸体来掩盖证据。

    • 回复: @Beefcake the Mighty
  250. @Anon

    嗯,当然,但是 *百万* 官方说法声称? 高度怀疑。

    • 回复: @Anon
  251. @Skeptikal

    “人类心理学家已经注意到非常清晰的行为模式”

    心理学家不“承认”任何有价值的东西,时期。 他们是,他们全都是狗屎。

    我在德国有个哥们,是名牌海德堡大学的临床心理学家,顺便说一句,他继承了巨额财富,反正他想自杀,所以我说:你为什么不使用你的教义关于你自己,他的回答是:“作为一名心理学家,你不能用你的训练来为自己提供咨询”,这当然违背了所有逻辑,并使心理学的书本版本变得毫无意义,反正我早就知道了。

    所以我们沿着内卡河和我这个非收缩的人走了很长一段路,通过简单地解决他的日常问题,当然包括他对女人的不幸,我设法让他重新站起来,指导他永远不要使用教科书上的材料又被他牢牢记住了。

    他在一家心脏病康复机构找到了一份顾问的工作,几个月后他告诉我,他所做的只是以一种舒缓的方式与患者交谈,避免使用所有心理学教科书理论,就像我在散步时对他所做的那样,而且病人很喜欢他,以至于在他离开那个职位后给他发了感谢信。

    关于我的门萨会员:在我被接纳为会员后,我什么也没做,没有支付会费等,因此我想我将自己称为“门萨协会会员”是一种误导,因此我从现在开始使用表达“门萨合格”。

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” 自 1973 年起获得资格,前美国陆军空降兵兽医和职业爵士乐艺术家。

    • 回复: @Skeptikal
    , @Ivy
    , @MEexpert
  252. Iasi 说:

    太多的说法,没有足够的关于二战事件的事实。 评论者提出了理论和许多故事,但需要在历史学家和文献之间达成一致。

    律师需要规定。 评论者应该希望那些人避免更愚蠢的争论。 许多人讨论大屠杀,但很少有人同意发生了什么,何时以及为何发生。

    谋杀是错误的,是大罪。 不要假装允许谋杀是道德行为。 它不是。 说说为什么纳粹和波兰人、乌克兰人、俄罗斯人和匈牙利人、捷克人和罗马尼亚人以及许多其他人转向他们的邻居。 描述一个人除自卫外杀死另一个人是如何被接受的。

    当您与圣彼得面谈时,说服从命令并不是行为的借口。

  253. Skeptikal 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    亲爱的门萨先生:

    你的轶事很甜蜜。
    而且我相信!
    显然,你的朋友比你有更好的听力技巧。
    (隐藏的触发器,所以不要打扰。)
    但是,它并没有真正覆盖领土。
    你自己的自尊心显然是坚不可摧的。
    杰茨特·施卢斯该死的。

  254. MarkinLA 说:
    @Sparkon

    穿甲弹由可用的最硬材料制成,包括 DU,它们以非常高的速度推进,初速接近 4,000 mph,或 5,600 fps。

    总BS。 士兵携带的步枪没有穿甲弹,M-3300 的速度超过 16 fps,2800 步枪的速度超过 308 fps。

    上部结构承载着所有地板的重量,这些地板只用足够的材料来承载地板的重量加上安全裕度。 这些连接点被下落的质量切断。

    将一架小型军用喷气式飞机撞上混凝土与一架 100 吨的客机撞上建筑物进行比较是一个愚蠢的比较。

    • 回复: @Sparkon
  255. Sparkon 说:
    @MarkinLA

    Y你给错误的人打电话 BS,他会把它塞回你的脸上。 通常,我的事实是直截了当的,但你没有。

    初速范围……超过 1,200 m/s (3,900 ft/s — 2659 英里/小时) 在配备高性能弹药筒的现代步枪中,例如 .220 Swift 和 .204 Ruger,一直到 1,700 m/s (5,600 ft/s 或 3818 英里/小时) 用于发射动能穿甲弹的坦克炮。

    我的加粗
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_velocity

    享用午餐。

  256. Ivy 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    样本量小,代表性不强。 轶事。 其他贡献者可能有不同的观点,甚至专业知识来反驳你的断言。

  257. MEexpert 说:
    @Authenticjazzman

    关于我的门萨会员:在我被接纳为会员后,我什么也没做,没有支付会费等,因此我想我将自己称为“门萨协会会员”是一种误导,因此我从现在开始使用表达“门萨合格”。

    真相终于出来了。 我一直在说他是一个假的门萨会员。 有资格并不意味着什么。 许多人有资格胜任很多事情,但他们并没有开始把它放在简历中。

    但不要害怕人们。 “未经身份验证的爵士人”现在可能会开始使用有资格签字的“心理学”,因此开始将您的问题发送给他。

  258. “有资格不代表什么”

    好吧,如果有资格,意味着被赋予所需的智商水平“并不意味着什么,那么他们为什么不让低于所需智商的人进入他们的社会?

    因此,通过测试智商超过 150 分的门萨资格并不重要,成为会员才是最重要的。

    用这种乱七八糟的逻辑,你深刻地揭示了你永远不会成为“合格”的。

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” 自 1973 年起获得资格,空降训练的美国陆军兽医,职业爵士音乐家。

  259. @MarkinLA

    波兰被邀请加入反共产国际公约,但被他们拒绝了。

  260. @Avery

    斯大林知道希特勒最终会入侵
    ...
    几个小时以来,随着纳粹越境的报道传来,斯大林拒绝相信这是真的

    那时他不应该感到惊讶。

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